Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2771: Protein Myths Are Wrecking Your Progress

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Mind Pump Fit Tip: The Magic Macronutrient: The Power of Protein. (2:37) The crazy story of how FedEx almost went bankrupt! (24:33) Going down the 'Squatter Hunter' rabbit hole. (27:32) Approved drugs that get taken off the market. (33:06) Holding your breath to get your way. (39:23) Biggest tantrums. (41:12) Why children save their hardest emotion for their mother. (43:08) The hidden benefits of Shilajit. (49:44) #ListenerCoaching call #1 – Are you genetically limited to gaining more mass? (58:12) #ListenerCoaching call #2 – Advice on progressing my lifting, setting new goals, and modifying the MAPS programs for five days per week. (1:08:19) #ListenerCoaching call #3 – Can you recommend how I can now go on a cut while ensuring I don't hurt my neck while doing exercises? (1:27:12) Related Links/Products Mentioned Get Coached by Mind Pump, live! Visit https://www.mplivecaller.com  Visit Crisp Power for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP10 for 20% off. Give your snack game a serious upgrade. Crisp Power Protein Pretzels deliver super crunchy and delicious snacks that are up to 28g of protein, low carb, zero sugar, and high in fiber! ** Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** January Promotion: Code NEWYEAR50 at checkout for 50% off the following programs: MAPS Starter, Transform, Anabolic, and Performance! Mind Pump Store Mind Pump #2450: The Smartest Way to Use Protein to Burn Fat & Build Muscle Mind Pump #2763: Eat as Much as You Want, but Don't Get Fat (JUST follow these 2 rules) Mind Pump #2731: The Ultimate Muscle Building Diet (Without Getting Fat) New weight loss drugs could boost cell energy safely Why children save their hardest emotion for their mother Shilajit, a Natural Phytocomplex Acts as a Neuroprotective Agent Against Amyloid Beta-induced Cytotoxicity and Inflammation Shilajit for Testosterone: Scientific Evidence  Shilajit extract reduces oxidative stress, inflammation, and bone loss to dose-dependently preserve bone mineral density in postmenopausal women with osteopenia: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial Does Shilajit Increase Muscle Growth? Exploring the Benefits of This Ancient Ayurvedic Treasure Visit Joymode for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Enter MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off your first order. ** Mind Pump #2560: How to Break Free from Destructive Body Image Issues Mind Pump #1510: Four Things Women in Their 40's Need to Know About Fitness Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mike Matthews (@muscleforlifefitness) Instagram Justin Brink DC (@dr.justinbrink) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had live callers call in, and we coached them on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 55 minutes long.

The intro is where we talk about fat loss and diet. nutrition, muscle gain, current events, family life. Always a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you can call in, we'll help you out, submit your question to mp.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Crisp Power. These are high protein pretzel snacks.

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That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. The magic macronutrient. I actually used to make fun of this, but the data is clear. There is a magic macronutrient. It actually doesn't matter what your goal is. It's protein,

and we're going to talk about the studies on protein, what it does for you. Regardless of your goal, this is something you should take seriously. Let's talk about protein. Let's get into it. I mean, this is, if you've listened to the podcast for, for longer than, you know, three weeks, you've probably heard us hammer this. Yeah.

Hammer this home. I mean, last night I had a phone call from Katrina's brother-in-law who actually just recently stayed at the Park City House. So he was actually called me and thanked me and said what amazing stay it was. And he's like, hey, I wanted to get your thoughts too on my diet and this and that. and you know when I when I when I talk to family and friends I think they always expect you know me to lay out like this elaborate yeah yeah and I go listen I'm gonna I'm gonna give you something that I know is is difficult for people to do consistently but it will radically change your body if you just trust me and do these things like I've already got he's following a math 15 programs I've got the programming side I know he's not doing worthless stuff he's got good workout it's like all I want you to do is think about protein every day. Your goal is 200 grams of protein every day. And I don't want you to do it sometimes

or occasionally or now and then. I think that's all you focus on. And like, I'm not even going to talk to you about calories. I'm not going to talk to you about anything else right now. Just focus on that. Because that in itself is for most people, especially in America, is a huge challenge. Because we have sold everybody on these make-believe breakfast foods.

every restaurant serves you carbohydrates first. You know, we eat all these sweets and desserts. We drink 900 calories on an average day of, you know, Starbucks drinks and bullshit. And so it's really tough to go after protein-centric foods. And yet if you just did that with some weight training, it'll blow your mind. Yeah, so here's what we need to go with this because where it gets muddy

is when people see the, RDA or they hear dietitians communicate this. And here's the truth. The average westerner doesn't under-eat protein. We don't. We're not missing essential protein for the most part. For the most part, people aren't not functioning properly. Their bodies aren't falling apart because they're not eating enough protein to do that.

That's true. But there's a difference between what is essential and what is optimal. it's a big difference when it comes to protein. It's a very big difference. If you're a 170 pound man working out and you get 65 grams of protein a day, you're fine. You're fine. But you're so far from optimal. You're so far from what your body will do when you double or triple that number for your body weight. And here's the crazy. This is why I said it was a magic macronutrient. This is where it gets wild, everybody. Doesn't matter what your goal is. Okay. So the data shows this. Yeah. And our experience has shown us as well. But the data also supports this. So let's start with fat loss. Okay. Someone might be like,

well, I thought I needed to eat less calories. Doesn't protein have calories. How does that possibly make sense? You're telling me that I need to eat more of something that's going to give me more calories. And yet, I'm trying to lose body fat. That makes no sense. Well, here's how it works. So first, we'll talk about the studies that compare calorically equivalent diets, one being high protein in the context of what we mean when we say high protein. So not more than the RDA, but much more.

What this looks like is about a gram of protein per pound of body weight in a person that's not obese. If you're really obese, use lean body mass. But for the average person, this is, we typically would say your target body weight. So you're 170 pound man, you're going to chase 170. grams of protein a day.

Okay. When you compare two diets, same calories, one of them 170 grams of protein, the other one, 70 grams of protein. So the difference would be the 70 gram of protein one might have more carbs and fats to make up the difference. Here's what we find. The higher protein diet results in more fat loss and more muscle gain or more muscle preservation, depending on where the calories are.

In other words, the person trying to lose weight keeps more muscle. muscle because the protein's higher, which then results in better fat loss later on as well. Here's the second part to it. For most people, especially in the initial stages, especially in the first year or so, eating that much protein produces a tremendous amount of satiety. And so it naturally, naturally, I love things that naturally control calories. It's so hard when you're trying to lose body fat to eat less. You're hungry, cravings.

You've got to fight that all the time. We're surrounded by food. So easy to get. It's the natural ozimic. What if I could get, exactly, what if I could get your calories down because your appetite goes down a little bit? Isn't that amazing?

Hitting that high protein target does it? And that's just fat loss. I love that you went this way and I tied it to the conversation I had because, so this was about a, it was a 45 minute plus drive last night I was raining and said I was in traffic. So it was a long conversation.

And we went all over the place with cortisol and insulin and stress. And so I gave like the simple advice. And then I broke down like all the stuff. science and the reason why it's this simple and why I want you to focus on this. And like at the end the call, he was like, I don't know why it took me this long to call you. You've absolutely blow my mind in like 45 minutes of you. Would you please? Would you do this? Would you have a call with my wife? I'm like, I'm going to blow your mind again. I'm like, the advice is exactly

the same. The only, the only difference is she needs to have about 130 to 140 grams instead of the 200 grand. That's the, and I want you to give her all this. I want you to tell her everything I just told you to do. and why to do it and all the things. But the only difference is just have her focus on hitting 130 to 140 consistently every single day. Because that's her target. That's her target. Regardless if they had a little bit different goals,

he wants to build some muscle and this, that. She wants to reduce bond. It's like the advice is exactly the same. And I said, and then listen, go do that for 30 to 60 days. Religiously, don't miss. Make that a focus. Hit your workouts and just do that.

And then I'm going to show you. show you so much results, positive results, that I'll know if you did it, because you're going to come back to me going like, oh, my God, my energy's up. I feel stronger. I can see my body changing, even though the scale has it. You're both going to say that to me. And then I'm going to give you another layer to this and like little tweaks and so with that. But just go do that. For both of you, go do that. That's right. And he was just like, oh, okay. Well, here's another one where people, because people will think fat loss, does it really apply? We covered that. Then people will say, does it apply to endurance. I just want stamina and endurance. And I heard that for endurance and stamina,

I need a lot of carbohydrates. Now, it is true that carbohydrates are a preferred source of energy. So what I'm about to communicate does not mean don't eat carbs on top of this. Okay, so you still need the carbs for endurance and stamina. But does high protein, like the way we're communicating it, a gram of protein per pound of body, does that also benefit endurance athletes? Yes, it does. It does. The data shows this. It's restored. Now, how? Is it because I have more energy? I have more calories to burn.

No, it's because your recovery is so much better. One of the challenges with any kind of exercise or training is especially endurance training. Repetive stress. That's right. Endurance training is unique in the sense that to a limit, the more you do, because there's always a limit, right? But the more you do the better. This is not true with strength training. Strength training is much more hit the signal, hit it right, build muscle.

Endurance, of course, there's still a limit. but the more you can get away with so long as you're not beating yourself up too much, the better your adaptation is in terms of endurance. This is why endurance athletes trade so much more than someone is just trying to build strength and muscle. Okay, that's why that happens. But the limiting factor oftentimes,

and if you're listening, you know this, if you run marathons, you're a triathlet or you're an athlete, you're a water polo player, like, you know, where you're just training your butt off, like what prevents you from training more is just you can't recover? Yeah. Pump your protein intake and watch what I just had this.

It just clicked with my brother-in-law. So he does jiu-jitsu. And jiu-jitsu is pretty intense. It's two and a half hour class, you know, an hour of that is your sparring. He's grown men wrestling. It's tough. He's also got a job and he's got two kids. One of them is, you know, under the age of four months.

And he's trying to go to jihitsu four days a week and also do like one day a week of strength training. And he's always talking about, man, you know, I'm sore, I'm stiff. I'm hurting myself. And so I said, listen, either you dramatically reduce the amount of training you do or you do what I tell you with protein. He's like, well, aren't I going to gain body fat? I'm trying to get leaner. I said just. And so we've had this conversation over and over again. So he finally, finally did it.

And a week in, this is seven days in. He's texting me. He's like, dude, he's like, I can't believe it. Yeah. I can't believe how much more energy I have, how much stronger I am. He's like, I feel like I'm getting leaner. And I thought it was a placebo at first, right? Yeah.

He's like, I don't know if it's a placebo or whatever. By the way, this was a weekend. We're now three weeks in. He's totally sold. He's like, what a huge difference. And the reason why he was losing stamina, endurance in his training was because he just wasn't able to recover because he didn't have the building blocks for recovery,

which come from. Oh, you're still breaking down tissue. That's the thing. And like joints, ligaments and tendons, everything else benefits from those amino acids and protein. I mean, it's just part of the rebuilding process. The good news is the message is getting out. out. Before you walked in the studio, I was just sharing with Justin. I saw a commercial last night

watching basketball from Chipotle. And Chipotle now has a high protein menu. Yeah, wow. And it's dedicated to 36, 42, and 60 grams of protein meal. Yes. And so you're seeing these companies pop up all, I mean, Chris Power is an example of this, a new partner of ours. It's, you know, high protein pretzels. Like, so the, the message is getting out. out on the value of protein and you're starting to see more and more companies. I'm glad you brought up Chris Power. We're going to put a pin in that and go back to it because at the end of this, we're going to talk about the challenges with hitting protein. And I think Chris Power is a great.

Yeah. It solves, yes. And again, I'm not going to, we won't go here yet, but I will say this. What we're saying is a lot harder than you think. So people here, listening to this right now are like, oh, cool, I'm going to go, like, getting it from Whole Foods is very, very difficult. Okay. So we talked about endurance and recover.

we talked about fat loss. Muscle building. Probably don't need to spend a lot of time here. This is where it's sold the most. But it made you a huge difference when it comes to muscle building. Big difference, everybody. If your strength training and you're the typical female consuming 60 grams of protein a day and the typical male eating 90 grams of protein a day and you suddenly start

hitting protein targets with your same strength training routine, it will feel like you're taking steroids all of a sudden. It will literally feel like what has happened. to my body. In other words, it's not subtle. It's a big difference in strength and muscle gain and over two months, three months, four months, massive visible changes for muscle building and makes a huge, huge difference. It's such a huge difference.

This is why I said to him exact same advice, and I said, I'll know when you call me back in 30 to 60 days if you took it or not. Because I know the response of it. And I'll know, I said, I'll know if you were inconsistent with it. I'll know if you had some days he hid, you didn't have it. because it won't be so profound. We'll make a big impact. But if you religiously hit that and you stay consistent with just, you're, he was already

consistently, he's been training for a year. And he's like, that's why he was coming to me. He was like, I've been training for a year. I'm not seeing any results. I got it. Right. So I'm like, here's the program. That's taking care of I know that.

Stick to that, which by the way, reduced his volume significantly, right? He was trained six days a week, hour and a half, two hours in the gym every single day. Way too much. Put him on a MAPS 15 protocol. Said, don't do anything more. More. And explained while all that and said, hit your program. protein intake, and then I will know if you do it, because the results that you will feel and

see will be profound in just 30 to 60 days. And then I'll give you the next layer. It's wild. So just speaking from personal experience, I know this. I'm in this fitness space. I've been communicating it for years. I've been training people for years. I never consumed a low protein diet. But for a long time, I would say I probably averaged, it's still considered high protein, about 150 grams a day. At one point, it was limited by gut health. I got that solved relatively recently, I'd say over the past maybe a couple years. This is the first time I've ever consistently, consistently meaning every single day, eaten my body weight and protein.

So I'm eating 220 grams of protein every single day right now, sometimes a little more, sometimes around 230. Oh my gosh. The difference is from 150 to 230 and it the difference, and by the way, my calories were still high before. I've actually swapped out some of my other macros for the protein because it does hammer your appetite because I feel it. I eat the protein. I'm like, oh, my God, I barely want any of this rice, you know, type of deal.

The difference in my training is insane. First of all, this is one that I didn't realize. I have less pain, which makes sense because it's a recovery thing. Yes. My joints feel better. The insertion points of my muscles, you know, which can sometimes get stressed if I start lifting really heavy. It's not really happening anymore. when I'm training.

I built muscle, that's for sure. I think I gained like four pounds of lean body mass if I had to guess. That's funny you say that. Yeah, because I noticed that too, but I attribute it because I know when I increase my water intake that has a similar effect with pain,

but like the protein for sure in recovery, it makes a big difference. You know, early days of the podcast, we used to keep this ongoing tally of Adam Wright-Sauri type of situation here. I'm going to bring this back because this is something I've been screaming

on the podcast forever and I have all of us I'm the guy who tracked who tracks like crazy and I know that and like all of us in here we know the benefit of the protein we go after this and that

but every time I go to track I go damn I am still not hitting optimal numbers and when I get up to optimal numbers it is a radical difference I build way more muscle I recover way better. Sleep better.

Yes. Sleep better. But it's hard. It is hard to do it consistently day in and day. It's also, and by the way, we're speaking in the context of you also exercise, okay? Of course. You can throw extra protein. You're just on a couch and just eat.

Yeah, and there's probably some benefit, you know, to it, but it's really largely overstated unless you're also strength training or working out. Sure. So I got to make sure I say it. I can see a bunch of couch potatoes. I don't think. That's a lot of... I think that's a very... Even though I have heard

to some people that listen to the podcast that don't exercise, but it's very rare. I think most people are... But we need to be a weird choice for them to listen to you. It also helps with longevity. And so the data on this is clear as well. As you get older,

more protein becomes even more important because it improves frailty. So as you get older, you know, besides the main things, heart disease, cancer, all that kind of stuff, frailty is a big problem. Sure. And strength training, you got to do it.

Protein amplifies the health. hell out of it and it makes a big difference around longevity but now there's challenges around this because if you're listening and you never done it consistently you might have done it a day here day there but like do it every single every single every single day because this is what you got you got to be consistent with it listen it's not easy it is not easy for me to get 220 grams of protein if you're if it's not intentionally like you're not thinking about it constantly you're behind and it's it's pretty much a fact for me personally and I know like anybody else I've told this too and it's like, you know, it seems like, oh, well, that's, that's simple.

I have to eat four meals with 50 grams of protein plus throw a shake in. It's really hard. So where I'm going with this is, A, try doing it with whole foods because this helps with body composition, kind of naturally controls calories. B, when you find it to be very difficult as you're tracking and you're missing by 30 or 40, this is why protein supplementation or protein snacks can be quite beneficial. You brought up earlier Chris Power. We'll bring them up. These are pretzels.

They're very palatable. You eat one of these bags in a day. What is it? Like 30 grams of protein almost? So they range between, I think, 26 is the lowest to 29. I'm eating a bag or two every day right now. Just because it's so convenient and easy. It's easy for me while I'm driving to and from.

It's not messy. It's like, and for me to be able to snack on something when, and, and, and, and, and, And I don't know if you go to this way, but when I'm aggressively going after my protein, I don't find a lot of times where I'm actually hungry. So I have to like, I have to find times where, hey, you know what? Yeah, I'm not hungry enough to sit down and eat a steak and rice meal right now, but I could snack on some pretzels that will give me an extra 26 or 28 grams of protein.

So that's what I find myself too. Because to your point, when you are so protein-centric, it's very satiating. And if I'm in build mode right now, and so in order for me to do that, I've got to train getting those extra grams of protein in. And even when I'm not quote unquote hungry, and so having a salty snack that I can eat while I'm driving between meals and stuff like that has been huge for me. So it's been...

What flavor are you doing, by the way? So originally the hot ones, but the hot ones I need something to wash it down with. So those are the best for driving. But I actually... So sesame was what I had yesterday. And then the green ones, which are like, I think, sea salt. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I haven't had one I... I haven't really liked. So even the... They hit it out of the ballpark. They're good. They're all really, really good. So I'm not, I don't know, I'm talking between the sea salt one and then there's the purple one, which I forget with the name. I got to remember the names of all the flavor.

Everything bagel? Everything, yes. The everything one and then the Seasalt one are becoming my new favorites. I still like the jalapeno ones, but they got a kick to them. So if I don't have something to wash them down with, like my mouth will be on fire. You know, what's interesting, too, about this. You know, you hear a lot of talk about, um, stabilizing blood sugar, insulin sensitivity.

Protein has a really interesting effect on that. It's quite remarkable. You eat a high protein diet. First of all, let's say you're going to eat garbage. I'm not advocating this, okay? So this is not what I'm telling you to do. But they've done studies on this. I'm about to eat garbage food.

I'm about to have donuts. But right before I eat the donuts, I eat 30 grams or 40 grams or 50 grams of whole natural food-based proteins. So ate that first, then I eat the donuts. You'll eat half the donuts. Not only will I eat half, but let's eat the same amount. Blood sugar doesn't go crazy. Blood sugar doesn't go as crazy.

Yeah, but you won't. You won't. No, also in real life. I'll bet my last dollar. No, you're right. That's real life, right. Yeah, real life, if you go in and you say, because I used to have to do this. So when I finally learned that I was way under eating protein and that was what was

keeping me the 180 pound kid who couldn't build any muscle with all the movement I do. I was like, okay, I'm not getting enough protein and I'm eating too much junk food is what it was happening. So it was like, okay, I got to go get the protein first. Then I get the protein. and I would give myself that permission to have the donuts, to have the milkshake to do the thing with it.

But, oh, boy, it was so hard to drink or eat or do that thing that is super palatable after I had that high protein. So it's, it's for the hard gainer, it's difficult to do that. And if you're the person who struggles with weight, it's one of the best hacks and strategies to maintain your weight. Well, so what happens with this is if you didn't chase a bulk or a cut, Okay, let's say you just hit your target number. Let's like, okay, my target body weights this,

this is grams of protein, whole natural foods. Here's what kind of happens. This is what I've experienced with clients, and this is the feedback we've gotten with our trainers, is that you're, without tracking your calories, you're just eating whole natural foods, eating the protein first, your strength training. Your calories naturally go up and down,

and what dictates your appetite is if your body's building or losing body fat. And so you actually get this nice body composition change, not these big dramatic swings, but rather, over time I get leaner build muscle. I get leaner, build muscle because your appetite is driven by your training,

by your strength training, which is quite remarkable. And I'll take it a step further. If the average person did nothing else, but just did that stuck to whole natural foods, we would solve obesity. It would solve without them having to worry about anything complicated

and I got to track this and count that. It makes that big of a difference, everybody. It's crazy. And again, for me, who's done this for as long as I have, I can't believe the difference between 150 to 170 grams approaching to 220. Like the difference in my training is, it's silly. That's the word I want to use.

It's actually quite similar. Speaking of silly. Another point for me. Have you got, yeah, you got it, dude. Adam won. It's been a long time since we did that tally. And hearing you say that right now, I'm like, man, I remember saying this for a long time to this guy.

You know what I'm saying? It's so true. Hey, do you, you might know this story. That's right. Do you know the story of FedEx and how they almost went bankrupt? Yes. Yes. This is the craziest.

And he went and gambled. Bro. He put it on roulette. Yes, of course. Yes. He put it on it. Yes. He put it on it.

He put it on black or red or whatever. Listen to this. Yeah, it's a crazy story. This is like, I don't even know this is good advice. I mean, I don't think it's not good advice. I don't think you should do this. It's not good advice. No, I'll read to you.

In fact, actually, Sal, I bet you, this has happened a lot more times than we know about. The opposite. Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. People have heard this story and then been like, oh, this is like their answer to solve their problem. I mean, he put everything on the line. So, 1973, FedEx was losing $30,000 per day.

They had $5,000 in the bank and a $24,000 fuel bill due on Monday. Almost 400 employees were about to lose their jobs. So that's what was happening at this moment. Let me get this to come up again. So this CEO is like, what am I going to do? How am I going to get this company to come out? Let me pull it up again because it froze. So here's what happened.

They lost prior to this $29 million in 26 months. He asked his employees to hold off on cashing their paychecks. Just, hey, guys, like, please hold off. I'm going to figure this out. Pilots were using their own credit cards to fuel their planes, hoping to be reimbursed later. Oh, my God. Friday, they said, hey, look, if your fuel bill isn't paid, by Monday, your planes aren't going to fly. So what he did is he went to, by the way, he created the idea for FedEx and his Econ class got a C on it.

So he talks about this. And he's like, my professor, he was right, dude. I can't do this. By the way, he's, these students are the best entrepreneurs. This guy apparently was a badass. So he was in the Marine Corps. He survived, you know, childhood arthritis as a kid. He, you know, he did two tours in Vietnam.

He's like, I'm not going down without a fight. So he literally withdrew the company's remaining funds and went to Vegas, dude. Oh, my God. And he played blackjack. Oh, it was blackjack. I thought he put it all on black. Blackjack, dude. Blackjack, okay.

And this is, so he tells a story. I wonder if that's better odds. He would win a few hands, lose a few. At one point, he was up 35 grand. Then he lost almost all of it. But he ended and he ended on top. By Sunday night, he turned the money into 27,000. He paid the fuel bill kept the planes flying for one more week and then ended up getting

Within weeks got an investor to give him 11 million dollars course now They're a massive company. Yeah dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what that could have gone bad A psychotic week for So imagine that I can't remember what I was watching on Netflix, but there's it there's the there's the that happens all the time the other way Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not a good strategy Yeah, then he gets a drone for embezzling and all this this other shit that happened. I have a update.

When you shared the squatter guy, I just got so, my business wheels. Yeah, just start going like, this is a great business icon. I mean, so I went down and like,

I looked more into a story and so like that. So listen to how there's another layer to this. So why it's so difficult is it's a, squatting is a civil thing. And so the cops can't, they're not, you're not breaking a law that they can literally do anything about. So it's like you have to take this to court.

Which is weird because they are breaking. They're breaking an entering. Well, but that's the part they can't prove. You know what I'm saying? And so that's where this gets all. So a large percentage of these people that squat like this are also ex-criminales or have done other things like that.

And so a lot of times they're on parole. So one of the ways he expedited. this is he brings guns to the house. So he gets the landlord to rent one of the rooms to him legally, signs, and he rents one of the rooms, and he brings guns out. Then he calls the cops, because if you're on parole, you can't be anywhere near the... So he plays their game and uses laws against them, too.

Yeah, and then the cops actually can remove him and arrest him. Wonderful. Well, how brilliant is that. So, like, that's like, that's like, that's like, that's hack one right there. It's just like, there's like a good... I can't remember what the percentage was, but it's a high percentage. of these squatters have criminal records and or on parole. And so he's like, if they're on parole, I've got weapons that I am allowed to legally have, brings them into rents the room.

He has his guns in his house. They no longer can be in the same house as those weapons. And they're legally can get removed now. Isn't that brilliant? I love that. I know. I just think it's so crazy that we have laws that make it hard to kick someone who's out of your house illegally. Yeah.

I think that's so crazy. And like, and protect burglars from, like, invading your house. You know what? This is, you know, this is such a win, though, for me,

for humans, because there's, for every stupid law and stupid thing that we do, someone smarter comes around and finds, how to use that bullshit against you or a loophole or somebody who takes advantage in business. Somebody else goes like, let me create a business that will just banked up that business by doing,

But you know what I'm saying? Like sooner or later, even better. Sometimes it takes a while. It does. And it feels like that one took a while because you've heard so many horror stories of squatters. And it's like, watch this go continue to go viral and people learn and figure this out. And now as a landlord, you're like, oh, I am just going to, my uncle who's got this huge gun collection, I'm going to rent a room to him. He's going to show up there.

And if those people are on parole, they're out like that. And then your only hard one is if someone is not on parole. but I mean the percentage likelihood of someone's willing to do something like that probably done other shady stuff in their life. Something so rewarding and like you see these videos too when they catch like a lot of the the fraud overseas where they're like do the call centers. Oh, I love those. And they yeah, and they hijack their cameras. They hijack their computers. And they show them everything and who's there.

And they freak out. Yes. And I just, I just, I personally just love that because it's just like. like, dude, these people just are just literally taking advantage full on knowing that they're ripping and stealing. And it's like, there's no recourse. It's like, we just need recourse. We need all this. There are, come back. There's lots of videos of people that make, um, like fake delivery boxes. Yes, they blow up. They like explode like blue paint. The bikes. Yeah, the bike stealing ones are like that. Of course, there's going to be people who get mad because they get hurt. But hey,

yeah. Play stupid games. You know, I think the good things. on the internet. These are the good things. I mean, I feel bad when it's like some like, you know, because sometimes you'll see like some, some like homeless dude that looks like he's not well, you know? Like I can feel bad for that. Sure.

But like the guys, like the people that drive up, they can't have the car and take your package. Yeah. And then, you know, they rig the package. They're like, one dude rigged this package to blow up a fart spray and blue paint.

Yeah. And it like waits till they're on the car. So the car will start take off and you see, but if there's no consequences or deterrent, you invite. it. And this is what we see all the time living in the state. We see what that result is. And it just becomes a number that is insane. And now it's like, oh, we can't do anything about it. Well, you know, we invited it. Well, this, this quarter hundred thing

is so cool to me. And probably our listeners that are in other states are like, who cares, not that big of a deal. In California, this is a big deal. If in California, everybody who's probably listening, who knows somebody who, you know somebody's, you know somebody. You probably know a My son-in-law happens. Yes. Our friend, we've had, like, almost everybody I know that owns property in California has had a situation. The guy, the guy wouldn't leave. It took him eight months to get him out.

And when he left, he put holes in the wall, destroyed the whole place when he left. Tons of money. What a, it's unbelievable. Did you share this quarter hunter thing to him? No. Oh, you did it? It was a long time ago. So what?

You know, he'll appreciate that. Sensitive. He still talks about it. Salt in the wound on that. Yeah, no, that's what I said. So, like, people maybe in the rest of the country is like, well, that's ridiculous. But here it's like, it's a hard thing to deal with. Dude, I got to bring something up to you guys.

So you guys remember, we've talked about this on the show a few times. I'm going to pull it up. I've talked about this, this, it's a, it's a drug, it's a compound that bodybuilders that I would say the most courageous bodybuilders. Oh, dynamite? Yeah, so it's called DNP. Yeah, yeah. And it's in dynamite, right?

It's used in making explosives. And what it is is, and I know the story behind it, by the way. I'll pull it up for you. So what it does is it's called a mitochondrial uncoupler. It cooks your inside. Well, so here's what happens. I don't know the whole process, but when your body's producing energy, if it becomes inefficient, you get leaks of energy and this causes you to burn more calories.

So mitochondrial uncoupling means that some of this energy just gets turned into heat. And so as a result, you just, your metabolism speeds up. Sure. Okay. So they discovered this in the 1930s. So I'll read it for you. During World War I, this is when they discovered this, munitions workers in France lost weight and had high temperatures. Some died.

Oh, wow. This is how they figured it out. This is how they figured out. Scientists discovered that this was caused by. by a chemical at the factory called DMP. So what it does is it disrupts mitochondrial energy production and increases metabolism. By the way, it was...

You look great. By the way... I've just been making shells. Hey, listen. To do my job. Listen, this is, I love this classic. Yeah, this is classic bodybuilders. No, no, but here's what's funny.

Only a few died. Yeah. But everyone else got shredding. Here's what's funny about this. It's like cancer. So this happened during World War I, right? In the 1930s, it got, it was one of the first weight loss drugs that were marketed. So you can actually buy a DMP.

Oh, you could buy it. In the 1930s. Wow. It was remarkably effective, but was eventually banned to its severe toxic effects. You guys have- Well, listen, the dose that makes you lose weight and the lethal dose, really close. That's what they say, dude. Right on that line.

The reason why I'm reading this is because scientists are studying, because the DMP, I don't want to encourage anybody. Because, look, I'll tell you guys, I know a. pro bodybuilder who's used DMP. So do I. You know who he is. Yes, I do too. He told me the story of when he did it. He goes, bro, he goes, I took it. I started sweating like crazy. He goes, my sweat was yellow. He's like,

made my sheets turn yellow. He goes, I had like a fever. And he goes, and it was crazy. And your workout performance sucks. You feel like, like you hold a little water, so you can't even tell you getting leaner. Then you come off of it. He's like, you're suddenly shredded. I'm like, did you do it again? He goes, no, dude. I think of it.

I almost died. But so scientists are studying DMP because they're like, okay, is there a way we could create drugs that do something similar but that are safe? And what they're doing, that's exactly what they're doing. So researchers have developed experimental compounds that do kind of what DMP does, but is safe. Now, obviously it's not approved yet. But this is like a legit, you know, fat burners always say speed up in metabolism. They don't do that. No.

But this actually would. So do you guys ever worry about like, okay, because there's all these crazy stories, 50s, the 30s, like all these things that we were giving people and taking and doing it like that. Like, what is today? Like what is that today? Like there's like historically, if you went back. There was something. And now we're like, what did they do? Exactly.

There has been something always in the market that we were mass selling to people. promoting as this thing. Yeah. Doesn't it make your wheels turn and go like, that's floating around in the market right now? Well, Doug, look up how many, how many approved drugs get taken off the market every year? It's a lot. So they've gone through the process. They've been approved.

They've passed all the trials. And then they get taken off because then we discover that they do something else. There's a lot. I mean, I would say every year, we have a number. We looked up in, what was it, 75% of all advertisers, so all commercials that you hear and see are pharmaceuticals. I would make the argument the 15 to the 25% make up the lawsuits on all the commercials of the, have you been affected by this, whatever, call this law firm or whatever. They're 15 to the 25th.

Those commercials crack me up. It's the only reason why I know what mesothelioma is. This is those commercials. You ever hear that? I just remember there's like mesothelioma commercials all the time. If you suffer from. Yeah. Let's see.

Relatively few, hundreds that recall. Okay, there's hundreds of recalls happen every year for various reasons. Yeah. So few are permanently withdrawn. That's so funny. Doug, give me the number because AI has given us. They don't always give you an exact number. Recalls with the drawls, 30 to 1,000 annually right there.

That was a number. Yeah, so 4% of all drugs approved in five-year periods are completely withdrawn, which considering our extensive trial. Just to get through. Because it costs a billion dollars. You know, on average, to take a drug from conception to market and all the testing and stuff. Yeah, 4% is actually pretty high. That is high.

Because if you're taking, you're part of that one, 4%, you know, and you're taking this drug and it's not good. And that's not to say that the ones that stick around don't have all kinds of other crazy stuff that they just accept. Yeah. Then look at the drug company's history in wartime and, like, how they've actually, like, weaponized a lot of these drugs that we all use and protect. And, you know, they just, they gasped people to death with it. Look up, look up the... The 1900s cough syrup ingredients. Just want you guys to see.

Have you guys ever seen these before? What cough syrup was? Bro, they give it to kids. They give it to kids, bro. You know what's in it? No. Heroin? Heroin?

Yeah, dude. In cough syrup? Yeah, bro, for kids. Like legit? This is in the early 1900s? Yeah, yeah. Look at morphine, cannabis chloroform. Chloriform.

And alcohol. Cannabis, Chlorifference, and alcohol. If you got caught with that all in your car, they would for sure to kill somebody. Yeah. Yeah. But it works. Timmy fell right to sleep

The old Cosby Cock is gone Oh my son's got this terrible cough doctor You're asleep tonight Trust me Take this Timmy My son was Hickaving last night In bed

Before he go to bed He goes Daddy I can't stop my hiccups I said just hold your breath And then he's held his breath For a few seconds He stopped I'll die if I keep doing that

I said well don't hold it that long bro Yeah don't hold it that long bro Isn't that? Don't some kids do that If they don't get their way They hold their breath I've never known a kid to do that, but I've seen like... So I have a bad habit that my son has.

And Katrina hates it. And she used to hate it when I used to do it. So she used to always call me out. When you argue with Katrina, you hold your breath? No, when I focus, when I really focus or I'm really into something, I'll hold me. And then I'll go, you hear me. I do that too. Yeah, so I think that's normal.

Is it? Yeah. Okay. That's cool. But there's, I think some kids, it's a thing. They'll hold their breath until they get their way. And some, maybe you can look it up, Doug. And some kids will make themselves pass out.

And so they get their way because you don't want your kid to pass out. You know what the recommendation? The dedication that kid has. Yeah, that's a real stuff. You know what the recommendation is? I bet that kid does something special when he told them. Let him pass out. Yeah.

It'll be okay. Is that a real thing? I mean, is that a real thing? I mean, I've heard of a kid doing that, but is that like a, is that to get their way, put to get their way. Yeah. I mean, it's a form of a temper tantrum, right? It's between that or like, I mean, I'd probably take on the floor and screaming. I would take that over it.

I know, right? Just hold your breath. Well, you're looking purple. I'll wake you up when you're done. I'll let me get some air. At least you're quiet. Yeah. Over there.

So some kids hold their breath, their intentions are strong emotions. It's usually not, it's usually involuntary reflex. Oh, Oh, interesting. Called a breath holding spell. Wow, I don't know that.

Oh, that's interesting. So it's not intentional. Sometimes passing out briefly. Wow. But generally harmless. Turning blue. Man. Kids, dude.

Let me tell you. Can you guys recall? That would be interesting one. the most angry or most, the biggest tantrum that your kid's ever thrown in what it was for or why? Can you recall it? Or does it all just get blurred into like tantrums? Tantrums are pretty much. I feel like a lot of parents have a story where it's like, oh, man, that time I took my kid to the grocery store and they didn't get that thing.

And it was so embarrassing. Like, have you had a party. I had to remove. Oh, at a party. Yeah. They didn't want to leave. Well, it was mainly Ethan. But, yeah, you didn't want to leave.

And it was bad. Was it like a kid's party or something? What kind of party was there? There was kids there that was friend. I was actually a party with like a bunch of people and I had to like, yeah, it was bad. I had to like, we had to go off and deal with it. That's where you like grab your pick up your kid and like they're just freaking out. Yeah, I didn't say anything. It was just like mechanical like, we're gone.

I actually escort you still there. She's like, and I'm like, we're out of here. Not doing this. I wasn't there for this one, but my daughter, my older daughter, my older daughter. she was at the store with her mom wanted to buy something her mom said no through a total fit and somehow knocked her own tooth out oh yeah oh wow because she's like freaking out and and her mom was like all right whatever you freak out over there yeah you know trying to kind of let her do with and she turns back around there's blood she's like what and she had like knocked out a tooth oh wow

because she must have like yeah oh wow oh that's crazy kids are I mean you know tantrums are interesting you know it's funny. I saw this woman communicating like what to do with your kid. Maybe it was even on our show. Was it on our show we interviewed? But anyway, they said that they're so disregulated. They can't even control what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so trying to talk to them or force them to do anything is like a waste of time. You just got to be with them. Let it come. Work through the feelings.

Let that come down. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, I always talk about how I have like, I have the opposite problem, right? Because my son's never thrown a tantrum or like that. But then this happens to Katrina more than me because of course he challenges her more, right? Because she's mom. And, you know, she was telling me that she was trying to get him to, you know, put his clothes on and he was just not wanting to do it.

And he's dragging his feet. And she's being a little more. Max, we have to go this and that. And then he'll start crying, I don't like the way you're talking to me. You're raising your voice. And she's like, I am not raising my voice to you. She's not even, she's not doing any of that. but he's so the other way that like even any sort of direct stern like direction is enough for him to be like Yeah, you're yelling at me.

Yeah, it's like, no, no, no, I'm not. You do not see it. It's funny you said that. I just pulled this. I just saved something on that. So this was this was an article on some studies on kids and their moms. And it says that children save their hardest emotions for their mothers because their nervous systems change around. mom. Brain scans show stress circuits in a child's brain deactivate five times faster when

reunited with their mother. So when the stress comes down, they feel safe, the feelings all. You remember that stat. Remember the stat I brought up, right? It blew my mind when they brought up a grandma, teacher, stranger, friend, dad, mom, who are they most likely to throw tantrums, push back, do all those things. And mom was like 97% more likely. So like, but it was because they feel safest. Yes. And part of a kid learning what they can and can't do,

the boundaries, pushing those limits, is when they feel their safest. By the way, I got another side to this because what the world will constantly, therapy will communicate this all the time. There's like this belief that every feeling must be expressed. Don't hold it in. You got to say everything, whatever.

There's some truth to it. But it's not all true. They also show in studies that when kids are told to, hey, control yourself, keep it in, especially boys, that the brain circuitry changes and allows them to learn how to control themselves more. So it's actually a skill. So does it. So does it. Helps. Dad helps kids calm down.

Like you've got to learn how to control that. Yeah, yeah. Mom allows a safety for them to express those things. You can't have one without the other. Right. If it's just one, you got a kid that just blah. The latter part doesn't get brought up enough. Because look, real life, real life means you got to hold your tongue. If I just told the every feeling I had when I was mad, I would have a good relationship

to anybody. Yeah. I got to learn how, especially if you're young man. Katrina and I talk about this all the time. There's appropriate times for him to do that. There's inappropriate times. Like, for example, not getting your way, it's not an appropriate time to be crying. It's like, hey, this is because you didn't get a toy or you didn't get to this thing,

like you don't cry. That doesn't help you get that. That's not inappropriate feeling that. Like sometimes we don't do that. Sometimes we do. And then there's other times he falls down or he's embarrassed or there's these things like, hey, this is a normal feeling we're having. We work through those feelings.

You feel those feelings. Or you're frustrated. You're angry because you couldn't get something done. These are normal. But like doing it on things that like we'll stop that and teach him how to self-regulate that emotion when you're when it's not acceptable. There's a balance. There is absolutely a balance.

It's not all the time. It's not like, feel it. It's okay. No. No, because if you just have... You become an adult and you're freaking... That's just your mind and your emotion. That's right.

That's right. It's ugly and it's unnecessary. You imagine being in a meeting with a bunch of adults and someone's having a bad day and they freak out and whatever. You become unhirable. Get out. Get out of here. But on the flip side, if you, look, if you have a household where you can never express anything, that militaristic, like, whatever, that's repressed.

that causes lots of problems. On the other hand, if you have a household where everybody's unhinged all the time because they get to express her, that's also not good. You got to have both. So it's like, you know,

read the data on moms and dads, it's really amazing how they compliment each other. You've got to have both of those. Yeah, and again, this is why it's always good to have differences. Like, we've got to highlight the fact that that's important and we need that.

We don't need to be homogenized like the same. Like, yeah, men and women are not the same. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful thing to watch unfold the teamwork when it's played that way. It is so, like, 99% of the time, like, Katrina doesn't get frustrated with it. He stretches those boundaries. But every once in a while, dad comes over and goes like, hey, that's not okay. And that shuts it down.

Like, that is literally all I have to do because we don't normally do that. And that ability to play off of each other, like, there's what. Otherwise, mom lets them feel those feelings and express. what he's feeling going through this and that. Then there's other times where it's just like, no, we're getting ready for school. We have to be out of time. Dad can come and be like, hey,

you need to be ready in two minutes, get going, listen to your mother. Okay. It's like, there's a way to play off of each other. But I find it interesting too, because it's like, it's so beneficial to hold your tongue, control what you're about to say

because you're pissed off or because you're whatever. There's value of that. But oftentimes what's communicated is, yeah, express yourself. Don't hold it in. Do you know what happens when you talk through anger? Nothing good.

You know why? It's like social media, bro. Everything is crazy. But then you still need to express yourself later. Sure, you do. But you got to calm yourself down to express. Totally. It's the way we consume content.

It's the extremes get the attention and get the likes, get the shares, the conversation. The conversation is about the extremes. It's either one extreme or the other. And really, it's somewhere in the middle of that. It's like, it's like, yeah, you want your kid to be able to express his feelings. You want your kid to be able to articulate that. You want them to feel their feelings.

But you also don't want them to run over you and just like that they get away. That's how they manipulate and they use that way. So then there's a way. And then as a dad, you do need to be stern sometimes. But being stern is not yelling or losing control or. Because that actually is the opposite. Right. That's what I mean.

So it's like we always speak in these absolutes or these extremes when there's this. I mean, again, I think it's a beautiful, delicate dance between two different sexes that do two. different things really, really well. And when, when done appropriately as a team, it's a beautiful thing. It is. But it doesn't get communicated. It's a better result. Yeah. It is a totally better result. All right. I got some recent studies on Shilajit. I don't know they did. There's so many recent studies on it, which is pretty cool. So something that's been around for so long. Yeah. So this is cool. So there's a 2024 study done on Shilajit. They found that it shillageet reduced amyloid beta-induced cytotoxicity in certain cells and the brain.

In other words, probably good for brain health. So there's some neuroprotective effects. Cytotoxicity. Explain. Toxicity to the cells. So beta amyloid plaques can be toxic to the cells of the brain. I don't think it causes. There's some debate as whether it causes Alzheimer's or.

Yes. Right, right. So it helps protect the cells. And that would, what would fall under that category? Are you talking about like microplastics and things like that? Like what would follow? Anything that can make the brain inflame, so high blood sugar, microplastics, chemical.

Yep. Oh, even so. Bad sleep, that kind of stuff. Okay, interesting. There's a study in 2025. This was a review of clinical trials that showed that 250 milligrams twice a day for 90 days increased total testosterone, free testosterone. Sperm count, ready for this, by 61%.

Motility by 17% and morphology, so the shapes of the sperm, by 18.9% What is the shapes of your sperm help? Oh, so you can... More torpedo-like? No. So you can look at sperm under a microscope

and you could have enough of them but they also don't have good morphology So they're... Deformities. Yes, and so it causes infertility. Oh. Yeah, so there's a few different ways

you can have infertility with your sperm. One of them is that you don't have enough. The other one is that they don't swim well, the way that they're shaped. So they look at all that stuff. Bone healing. Deforms. They look.

looked at us. There was a 2022. I'm, bro, I'm not passing either. I know he's moving on, but I'm like, I think it's wild that we get under a monitor show, and we like can look at the different types of little swimmers that you have. And be like, sorry, guy. I mean, you got a lot, but they're kind of deformed. It's like a square head in this guy. Those aren't going anywhere. Yeah, they're not so good to freestyle strokes. Look, this ugly guy. Yeah. A lot of backstroking going with you guys. I'm trying. Crashing into each other. You'll never make it. They swim in the wrong way.

Yeah. In 2020, there was a 22 randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial that examined Shilajit's effects on bone health in postmenopausal women with osteopenia. So 60 participants got 250 or 500 milligrams of shillazette extract daily for 48 weeks. There was a dose-dependent preservation of bone mineral density in the lumbar spine, along with reduced oxidative stress and inflammation. So by itself helped with bone strengthening. There's another study.

I have so many. I'll just do a couple of ones. Physical performance. Trials reviewed in 2025 showed that for eight weeks, the 250 to 500 milligrams a day, enhanced muscle adaptation, reduced fatigue,

and boost collagen synthesis, ready for this, up to 84% with benefits of skin health and wound healing. This is a great... Before you don't do any more. I mean, I'm still in the first one just because...

What, the sperm? Well, yeah, because... Okay, so how does that compare to things? like Tom Kat Ali and Ashwaganda, other, like traditional other supplements that we're... I don't know. It's a good question. What to me, what blows me away most about Shalaji is all the stuff that it does. It does a lot of things. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know what the exact numbers are with Tonkat Ali. And I know it helps with fertility and men. Yeah. Well, I don't know how much. Like, are we deficient? Like, because it's one of those things. Like, is this something you find in really good soil?

Or like, like, where else would you get? something similar that would have all these like... No, when it's naturally eat weird. It's tar on a tree in a random place, right? No, it's literally it's organic material

that has been broken down over long periods of time. It oozes out of rocks and the Himalian mountains. Yeah, that's, it's so random. Well, so what Organify did is, Doug, what's their dose in their serving?

There's a bag right there on there and I think it's efficacious dose, right? How much Prima V's in there? $250 million. So there you go. So you can take that dose or double it, and that's what the studies show. Now, in their gummies, which they don't taste bad at all. It tastes good and it's easy to take. The thing with Shilajito is you can get crappy Shiloggi or you can get fake Shilogi. Prima V is the source. So if Organify uses Prima V,

Prima V supplies to other people too. So if you want good Shilajit, go with Organify or look for well-sourced Shilogit. But all the studies, you count them all together like this. This is a pretty remarkable. Yeah, it's a lot of benefit. I mean, it's pop-in-out. Who's the first person to eat this? I was just thinking the same thing. I'm like, and then how long do you have to do that in within a family for people to pass it down?

It's like, hey, this is working. I noticed something. Like, that's. You know, and I've heard theories. And, of course, this gets a little bizarre as you get into it. Because you think that, like, the trial and error part of that must have been like, okay, you know, Jim died because he ate this. And they all kind of like talk amongst. but there was some theory that a lot of these like psychedelics, like mushrooms,

like it sort of gives them some sort of insight and ideas with like certain things to eat. Yeah. Which has been the theory in terms of advancement. I haven't had enough mushrooms to get that. Yeah. I don't know. Hippies aren't inventing a lot of stuff right now. This is interesting on Schillijit.

They observed animals in the mountains. Oh, that's of course. So they noticed large white monkeys migrating to higher altitudes each summer to eat a specific black tar light substance that oozed from the rock crevices. The monkeys displayed great vitality and a speedy recovery from injuries which peak their curiosity. By the way, great vitality means the monkeys were having a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that means. Dude, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe we should try that.

Maybe we'll give that to my wife, which is what every caveman said right there. Every caveman watched a bunch. That's how they discovered hornet. That's how they discovered horn of goat weed. Is it? Goats would eat it, and then they'd just go for a for and. like crazy. And so farmers were like,

you know what? I don't know why that. I didn't know why that didn't go on me. That is probably how a large percentage of all is observing animals. That makes sense. Yeah. That makes sense. It's seeing that they're acting.

We're watching them and their behavior. They eat it. They don't die. You see some sort of no, you can pick up. They're like, man, they're having way more sex this week than they were the previous weeks.

And you're like, that's interesting. Before cell phones and stuff. Like, you're just bored. Yeah. Watching monkeys. Watching monkeys.

You're like John. Go on. Hey. Bro, they were having sex. We got TV in the cellways. Everybody in this room watches the nature channel. You know what I'm saying?

Hey, I'll tell you guys we went to, where were we? This guy's going crazy. We were at a zoo. Aurelius was like three and they had tortoises and we just must have timed it right, bro. One, like big giant tortoises,

the big ones. One got on the other ones back and started to mate with it. Yeah. And, you know, he's three. He doesn't know what's going on. So we're walking over there and I'm like, uh-oh. Piggy back ride. And the tortoise went, was making noises, dude. So he's laughing.

I even heard a torquing them. He's like, he's like, but pa, listen, uh, uh, what are they doing? Oh, I think they're wrestling. I don't know what's going on. It was hell of loud, dude. He still talks about it today. What age is that? So I'm aware of because right now that's still what it's wrestling, right, that mom and dad do at night?

Well, I don't know. What age is it? You know, of course you hide that for as long as fuck. What are you doing in there? It's hearing up the white noise. What's that noise happening there, dude? I don't know. Joy mode is a science-backed formula that is packed with citrille,

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if you want a good pump in the muscles you're training. But again, use it before the bedroom for a better pump. You know where. Go try joy mode.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump at checkout. Get 20% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is John from Louisiana.

What's up, man? What's up, John? Y'all, how's it going? Good, man. How can we help you? Good, good. I guess first I want to say, man, I just really appreciate the way that y'all can blend science with experience and then dumb it down for us average people.

Y'all do it in such a way, man, that it's changing people's lives. I'll jump straight into my email. I'll just read it to you. I'm a 52-year-old male. Five foot four, currently weigh 152 pounds, and I'm at about 8% body fat. I resistance train five days a week. I walk 30 to 45 minutes, about three times a week, and my diet, That's pretty consistent around 2,400 calories a day, and I only drink alcohol occasionally,

maybe a few times a month. So my goal is to build more muscle, but I took some surveys. One I think was a McDonald's and one was a butt survey, and they're saying that I'm around 90% of my genetic potential. So my question is, am I really genetically limited to gaining more mass, or is it, realistic to add another 10 or 15 pounds of lean muscle mass over the next couple of years at my age and my current condition. Yeah.

Well, how long you've been strength training for? Off and on since I was in my 20s, but I've gotten serious since I turned 50. I actually started competing as a men's physique competitor. Good for you. Are you on any hormones, all natural? I'm all natural right now. Good deal. Oh, wow.

You said right now, have you used performance enhancers in the past? I have, yes, sir. Okay. So that changes things a bit. Now, what I will say is it'll be hard to tell if you're at your, you know, quote unquote genetic potential. If you're sitting at 8% body fat trying to build. Most guys are not, they're going to have a tough time building with a body fat percentage below, you know, 11 or even 12%. Especially without any extra hormones.

Yeah. Trying to do it naturally would be really tough, that low. Yeah. Now, when you were using performance enhancing drugs, do you know what your lean body mass was then versus now? I mean, when I got on stage, I was a little below 4% body fat. Okay. But do you know what your lean body mass was reaching the off season with that? When you were bulky. Yeah, when you were bulking. So it's hard to say, dude. It's really hard to say because you're already, I mean, you're obviously jacked and ripped and experienced. but you know here and you're also you know 52 so that might change things a little bit but to be

honest with you I don't know man 8% I'd say go on a bulk 2,400 calories I'll tell you this much you're not going to gain any muscle at you know 2,400 calories we're going to have to get you over 3,000 and then see what happens there yeah yeah not to mention what I was hoping you I was just scared to do it on my own because I didn't want to gain any fat I'm kind of picky about the way look you're going to have to gain some fat to gain some muscle at 8%. You don't have to get a lot of fat. Not to mention, John, you have the tools and the knowledge how to get right back down anyways. It's more psychological, you know what I'm saying?

Like even if you went up to as high as 12 or 13% body fat, a guy with your experience and muscle memory, I mean, going right back down and getting lean would be relatively easy, you know, from that. And Sal's point, you'll just, you'll build. much better north of 10%. Sub 10% trying to build, especially naturally, especially older, just and also towards, whether you're at 90%, 80%, 70% of your peak,

that's, I think those tests are hard to be really truly accurate. But even at 90%, you got another 10%. I mean 10% 10% on 152 pounds. That's 15 pounds. So, I mean, even that test is saying that there's potential for 15 more pounds of muscle to be built. So that's still, that's still, and you said, can I get another 10 pounds? So you absolutely, even based off of that you can.

But it's going to be tough to do that natural under 10% body fat, only eating 2,500 calories. So my suggestion is going a nice aggressive bulk, 3,000 calories plus and allow yourself to go up a little bit. And just based off what you're saying, I already know, you go up to 3,000, 3,300 calories. It'll be clean. Yeah. You're probably not going to eat garbage to make that happen. away from anything processed. It's all clean.

Yeah, you're good. Here's the two things I would look at. I would monitor for this. I'd monitor strength and body fat percentage. And that'll tell you if you're going too far or not. So if I'm in your shoes and I'm trying to gain, here's what I'm going to look at. I'm going to look at, am I getting stronger in the gym?

And then is my body fat percentage going up? Now, my body, I'm going to expect my body fat percentage to go up. In fact, I'm going to expect it to go up until I get to about 11 or 12%. Yeah. Once it starts going to go up, above that, if I get up to, uh-oh, I'm at 12 and a half, 13%, then I know the calories are a bit too high. Yeah, you're going.

So those are the two things I'm monitoring. But I'm, but the goal is, to put it differently, if I'm getting stronger and I'm in a surplus, but my body fat percentage is sitting at 9% and it's not going up, I got to add calories. So that's what I mean by that. I'm looking at body fat percentage to make it go up to determine whether or not my bulk is appropriate. Okay. That makes sense. Because you, because you did hormones in the past and you're not now, have you tested to kind of see where your natural levels are falling right now? Yeah. Yeah, I've had, just last week, I had my bullet panel done and everything's okay. I'm a little low on test. Okay.

Wow. So, wait, hold on. So you bounce back pretty quick? Yeah, in two months. Yep. Wow. What's your, do you know what your total is at now? Total. testosterone. Testosterone. I'm at 144, which is a little low, but I think it'll come.

Wait, that's total or free? That's probably free. I'm sorry, free. As far as I don't know. Yeah, that's not a bad recovery

after a couple months ago. Yeah, so, well, I mean, yeah, yeah, bump the calories, dude. That'll make the biggest difference,

especially post show. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yep, yep. And then with strength training, you know, five days a week's fine.

You sound it like your real experience. But you do better off of the last. You might be, You might even do better with four. Or three. Or three. Yep. Are you running any maps?

Do you have any of ourselves yet? The only thing I've done is I've read Sal's book. Yeah. So you get it. The resistance revolution it is. Yeah. But I don't have any maps programs. I mean, I would personally love to see you run MAPS Anabolic in a bulk.

I think that it would and just, and stick to that if you can. If you can, and then on the other days, if you want to go for a walk and do mobility and do other things, because if you like going to the gym five days a week, I'd never tell someone not to. But it's a three day a week, full body routine. That with a bulk, I think, would serve you really well. Okay. Yeah.

The most important piece of all this, though, for someone like you is the bulk. Yeah, eat. Got to eat. That's right. And I have a problem with eating. I'm hardly ever satisfied after eating. I have a big app.

Yeah, go for it. Yeah, go for it. If you're at 24, I mean, I would put you up to like, I'd add a good 600 calories. At least. Yeah. 3,3200 should be a good place we would be starting at. And just, and like Sal said, let it be.

Stay there and expect to go a couple percent up. You start getting beyond 12. You know, you're gregic, you're bulking too fast. Then you can just pull, don't pull back crazy. Just pull it back a little bit. Yep. And the extra muscle. Yeah, I mean, you're not going to, here's what's going to happen.

You'll probably get up to 10% pretty quick. And then it's going to be probably hover around there for a while. That's what I would guess. As you build. I would guess the same thing. Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay.

I'll have, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, send over a map sanabolic from us so you can follow that i'd love to hear you fall if i'd love to hear you bulk follow that and then hit us back because i'd like to see what we do okay well you have no idea how much i appreciate you sending me that map sanabolic yeah thank you very much yeah yeah got it man we got you we got you do the bulk and then i'd love to hear back from you john okay all right all right brother all right thank y'all yeah take it easy man you know it's interesting to me uh which you know i believe this up to him and his doctor

at 52, if he's going to run cycles, why not go on TRT? Yeah. So on cycle is a higher dose, right? That's, no, I'm not advocating that. That's just, you know, competitive bodybuilding. Off cycle would be TRT, rather than doing the up and downs and crazy swings. I mean, he's 52. He's probably not going to have any, you know, kids anymore.

Well, that's how I was thought the same thing, too. I thought it was interesting. And especially, too, he still has goals of continuing to build more muscle, trying to do that coming off of a cycle where you're already trying to get back your normal testosterone level and build. I mean, it's just... But, you know, back to the body fat percentage thing,

it's, it's, there's very, very, very few people that can really bulk in the single digit body fat percentage. 99.9.9% of people fit healthy, you know, doing everything right, you know, you're, you got to get your body fat up at least to like 11, 12. For me, like my max bulking, like I'm getting strong and I'm not putting on too much body fat. Like that sweet spot for me is around 11, 12% for me. And I sit leaner.

So some guys is even higher. Some dudes 14, 15% is their sweet spot for, you know, packing on muscle. I mean, I don't even, it's so funny. When I'm in like kind of bulk mode right now, it's like I don't even care. As long as it's north of 10, 12. Yeah. I'm like 12, 15 somewhere. It doesn't even matter.

It's like stay. It just does better in that, in that range. than trying to also be really lean and do it slowly like that is he'll do better if he goes up. Our next caller is Leanne from Georgia. Hi, Leanne. How you doing, Leanne? Hi, how are you guys? Good.

Doing good. How are you? How can we help you? I'm cold. It's cold here in Georgia. We're not used to this. Well, we're in California, so. It's still cold today, though.

It's cold over here, too. If it's below 60, we're all freezing over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but anyways, this is really cool. I'm super excited. I said, as I was telling you guys, this is the best birthday present ever. My birthday is tomorrow. So I will, thank you.

So Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. And I'll go ahead and jump right in. I have been listening to you guys for a little over a year. I started listening to you because I heard, I used to listen to Mike Matthews podcast. And then he stopped his podcast. And I think, Sal, you were on his podcast or maybe was Adam. Both of us had been on there. He's a good, he's a good friend of our, very good friend of ours. If you liked the episode, it was probably me.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, you know. But anyways, he stopped. I started listening to all. Awesome. Thank you. And I listen to you guys all the time in the car, in the gym, everything. My daughter, I have a six-year-old daughter. and she like has the intro memorized. It's really funny. So I also love it when you guys talk about your kids. And I can relate to your talks about the teenagers as well because I actually am my high school science teacher.

So like hanging out with 15 year olds is kind of my thing. I love it. They are fun. But I'll go ahead and jump into my question. I'll be 38 tomorrow. So I send in my email that I'm a 38 year old. I've been lifting for the last. two years consistently. I actually started doing one of Mike's Matthews programs on the thinner

leaner stronger on New Year's Eve two years ago. So that's when I started to really get into lifting and consistently lift five days a week with the compound lifts, squat, bench, deadlift, and starting to use heavy weights. When I first started, I don't remember exactly what my numbers were, but I know that I deadlifted one day a couple weeks after I started and tried to do 135 pounds. And I threw out my back. It was terrible. So now this past Thanksgiving, my sister-in-law is a powerlifter. So this past Thanksgiving, we did a mock powerlifting meet on Thanksgiving day. And I did 500 pounds total for all three lifts.

Wow. And my deadlift was 225. Wow. Incredible. So I've increased it quite a bit over almost 100 pounds, at least 100 pounds in two years, which I think is pretty good considering my size. I'm really small. I am only 5'1, and I do have low bone density. So sometimes I wonder if I'm lifting too much for where my bone density is.

And that is due to a history of being small my whole life. Some of it's family history. And then I do, I will disclose that I have a history of an eating disorder that I've struggled with since at various points in my life since I was really like at 12, I guess. So it's kind of a lifetime thing to really just kind of keep it at bay and keep it away. So now I feel like I've kind of stalled out on progress as far as getting my lifts any higher, particularly my upper body, my bench press. I still cannot bench 100 pounds. My bench was 95 pounds for that competition. So my den lift saved me.

But I am wondering, you know, as far as my next fitness goals, that 500 pound was a big milestone. And I'm not sure where to go from here. I was thinking about the idea of doing a real powerlifting meat, but I'm so small that I don't know if there would be anyone to compete against, which is worthless then. And then the other question I have is that I bought the MAPS super bundle, nine months to phase expert exercise programming designed by the three of you. So I had to buy it. I bought it on the Black Friday sale. And I just opened it and started looking through it this past. week because I was doing this other program I finished up with my year-long coaching commitment

with my Legion coach. And I figured that I would start looking at it now, but it's not really what I expected. I did not realize MAPS Anabolic was only two or maybe three days a week if you did the advanced version. And I like working out. I like to be in the gym five days a week. I have time to do it. And so I'm looking for advice on how to modify that so that I can get it to be more of a five-day-a-week program with slightly shorter workouts as well as, you know, how to progress that program to get the most strength gains possible. Yeah, great question. I appreciate your call and your honesty and you got a great energy. Yeah.

So yeah, I really appreciate it calling. So this is going to be pretty simple for someone like you. Simple to hard. Yes. So there's a few things you mentioned that are going to point me in just strongly in a direction. So I'll start with the really good news. You have really good genetics. You're really strong.

Yeah. Yeah. Like really strong. For your size. Even your bench press, by the way. 95 pound bench press is strong. Yeah. You're lifting for 5-1, you're lifting a good amount of weight in all your lifts.

Yeah. So you're really, really strong. And the low bone density is a 100% a result of the low food intake, low caloric intake. Definitely from the past, but also probably now as well. I'll guess your calories are probably still too low. And so that's where it's going to point me. It's going to point to food intake. So here's what happens when you strength train and your,

food intake or your caloric intake is too low, you still get osteopenia. And we see it all the time in the fitness space, all the time. Young women who strength train, compete, you know, they're always really, really lean, and they just, their bone density just continues to go down. And they get, and they freak out. They don't know how, but I'm lifting weights. And it's like, you're sending the signal, but we're just not feeding the body enough. And so that's the direction we're going to point you.

As far as workouts concerned, I mean, Mike Matthews has great programming. Maps andabolic we could modify. You could do the- Yeah, that being said, though, Sal, to your point with lower calories, a lower volume of program is also going to benefit you more. That's right. In that condition. Because we are, we don't have enough calories.

A higher volume program is also working against us, not for us. Let me ask you this. You worked with a coach. I love Mike Matthews. He's always got great stuff. I'm assuming when you worked with your coach, was this a constant conversation with them? Was the food intake and calories? Yeah, it was.

And she had me tracking. And so now that my year is up with her, I have hired an online like through Nourish. I don't know if you're familiar with that program, but it's an online program with dietitians. So I've hired a dietitian. I met with her once. And they have both, you know, they're having me track. So I am tracking my food. So I know where my macros are and I know I have at least an approximation.

I'm not always the best about tracking it. And I know that there's a tendency with my history to overestimate. So I probably do that a bit. But overall, like typically my calories fall around 2,000 calories. And then my protein is like somewhere between 100 and 110. Do you still think that's too low? I do. Oh, yeah.

Okay. Okay. Especially how strong. and how much muscle that you have? The bone density will tell me. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Yeah. The bone density would tell me 100% and your past. Okay. And I know while I'm talking to you, if you don't mind me being direct, is that okay if I'm a little direct? No, of course. That's why I like you guys. I know as I'm talking to you and you're hearing me talk about food, it's like you're freezing a little bit.

And I know that this is like I'm touching on something that's difficult. And I get it because this is a challenge for me as well, just in a different direction. So it's like when someone tells me the thing that I know, but I don't. don't want to do, you know, I make the same face that you made, which is like, tell me about the workout. Let's not touch that one area. Yeah. I guess I feel like I'm, and I know you hear this all the time. I feel like I'm eating a lot. And I eat pretty clean like probably 80% of the time. It's a lot of vegetables, fruits, you know, whole milk, yogurt, stuff like that. And I do. I try and throw the junk food on top of that.

The cookies, the cake. Let me stop you. Let me stop you. You can't trust your feelings. Yeah. Your feelings are wrong. Yeah. If you trusted your feelings.

They go back 20 years. You're going to go. Yeah. We tell people listen to your body. When I'm dealing with somebody who's got dysfunctional relationship to exercise and diet, you don't listen to your body. So if you eat appropriately, it's going to feel uncomfortable. Yeah. It does. It really does. Like when I track my food and I've eaten a 500 calorie dinner, I'm like, I'm stuffed. I don't know if I could. I don't know how I could possibly eat anymore.

Yes. So it's going to be uncomfortable and we have to completely change your relationship to eating, which means for a while it's going to be very foreign. It's going to be very uncomfortable and you're not going to like it. You're not going to like this process. Yeah. very uncomfortable for a while. So you cannot trust. So a coach is a good idea, but what they're going to do is, you know, you following what they do with you is going to be the hard part, not the tracking, not the awareness. You know, I'm not worried about that. I know you could, you're going to make a great case, which is why I cut you off because you were making a great case. I eat healthy.

I throw in junk food. But that's, yeah, I'm not, I'm not concerned with that. What I'm concerned with is we got to get your bone density up. Yeah. And we got to get your body fat percentage up. And I know I just scared the hell out of you. But your body fat percentage is too low for your bone density go up. We got to get your body fat percentage to 20% at least.

Do you know where you're sitting? Yeah, it's not there. No. I have the only way, the DeXA scan that I got did not do body fat percent. Like it was only bone because my doctor ordered it. So I don't know exactly. But I would guess maybe somewhere around like 16. Yeah.

Yeah, you got to get it up to 20. And that's like where it's been for a long time, I think. Yeah. Now, here's what's going to happen. Here's what will happen if you follow my advice. And if you're, by the way, if you're willing to add another coach to your arsenal, we have coaches here that work really well with what we're dealing with. And what they could do is they can also work in conjunction with your dietitian.

So. Yeah. And more just the support and guidance and trust and, you know, because you're not going to be able trust yourself through this process. But here's what it's going to feel like. Uncomfortable. I'm stuffed. I'm full. Oh my God. I'm getting big. And then you're going to be like, whoa, I'm strong. This isn't as scary as I thought. I feel good. I'm feeling different. My hair looks different. My skin looks different. My energy's starting to feel different. This is foreign. What's going on? Oh, no, I'm too big. Oh, no, I feel good. And you're going to go back and forth, back for a little while until we

developed this new relationship with the whole process. But we have to go in that direction. Yeah. And in the past, it's been really hard because I've never had, like when I've done treatment in the past, it's always been all about the food and there's never been any exercise component. Like with it, with it. And so I need help with both of them together at the same time because it's like

once you get the food, I don't know, I think they both have to happen. at the same time. You're 100% right. And none of the programs do that. No, no, because they're just focusing on the nutrition side. The beautiful side, when you have somebody who does both, it's going to be much easier for you because you actually enjoy getting strong. So you're going to see that.

And so that's one of those... That's such a silver line. That's such an awesome, like, it's good. Like Sal's saying the food part is going to be hard and you're going to go back and forth struggle. But the thing that you'll be able to lean on is like, oh shit, my bench press went up. Oh, shit. My deadlift. And so, and so that part of you, will be able to lean and focus on that and not so much of the food. You just trust your coach of like, keep eating this.

I want you to do that. Stay the course. How's the lift going? And that's what, like, if I'm coaching you, that's what we're talking about. I'm talking more about the lifts. You just, you trust me. You eat what I tell you to eat. But let's talk about your lifts.

Let's talk about how you feel. And keep you focused on that. And that's, it's so much more reassuring for a client that's working through what you're working through right now. So, yeah, again, just to stay, you know, direct because this is a call. And if I were coaching a long term, the conversations would sound a little different, so I apologize ahead of time. No, that's okay.

But for people watching, the root of this, a lot of people think it's body image, but it's actually control, which I know you already know that. So the solution is to relinquish control. Yeah. That's the solution. The solution is to give it to your coach and then just do what they say and then just deal with how uncomfortable and scary it is. It's going to feel really scary.

Yeah. Well, and I know that like I've got to lean on my faith for this too. And I know that resonates with you. We were at our church service on Sunday, this past Sunday, and they were talking about that, actually, going through all of the passages in Hebrews and about, you know, giving up all of your sins to God. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. And so, like, this is like perfect. It was perfect timing for it.

And this is all perfect timing. What would you, what should I do then about the workouts? I wish you guys would have had. MAPS 15 power lift, like, and had released all these MAPS 15 programs. Well, yeah, one, we're going to give it to you. Two, we also have, we have coaches that. You work with our coach. They'll give you whatever you need.

Yeah, yeah, they'll take care of that part. So I would love if you allow us to have one of our coaches call you and she can talk to you and talk more about this. And then we'll take care of the program. You mentioned your faith. I love that because you know that there's an illusion of control. That's completely false anyway. not sovereign. So that's completely, you know, out the window. Here's the other thing, too,

is another wonderful silver lining. You work with teenage teenagers and teenage girls. Yep. When you're in those moments where you're really struggling, what would you tell a 15-year-old you or a 15-year-old student? And that advice is the advice that you would take. Because I know it's easier to love them than it is to love yourself. It is. You're right. You're absolutely right. When you're in that place, be like, what would I tell, you know, my 15-year-old. daughter or student and then say, okay, that's the advice I need to take. Yeah. All right.

We're going to have someone call you. I know exactly who I think you would be great with. Yes. And then what's going to be great about this, Leanne, is now that you, if you work with our coaches, we're going to see you. And I'm going to hop on some of these calls because I feel responsible now for you. And this will be so fun. Yeah, yeah.

We're going to help you through this. We got this. All right. Great. Thank you. This was awesome. All right. And happy new year.

Yeah. And happy birthday. Enjoy yourself. enjoy yourselves tonight with your zbiotics. I, I, I, like, trust you guys.

I, um, buy all the things that I bought your programs and then buy all the things that you tell, tell us to buy. I'm like, I got to get the intera. That's what the mind pump.

I say again. I'm like, I buy all the Legion proteins and pre-workouts, which actually are amazing anyway. So, let us take care of you now. It's great. So we'll have someone call you and we'll take care of you.

God bless you. All right. All right. Thank you so much. We're in touch. How cute. Her daughter was back there. I know.

I love that. How old are she even knew? Did she see? I knew as soon as I started talking food, she was like, that's not what I want to hear. And I get it, man. I totally get it. And I know that's what the coach has tried to work with her on from Legion 2,

and that's a difficult thing. And I just want people to know ladies in particular. You can strength train perfectly. You will get osteoporosis if you don't eat enough. Yeah. It's just a fact. There's an unfortunate fact. For the most part,

There's a lot of callers that are pretty straightforward for us. Then there's stuff that there's a real art to be able to take somebody through something like that. Oh, yeah. This is coaching. It's not as simple. Like, you know, young coach goes, oh, just add 500 calories a day. Yeah. You know, and walks away because it's not just that. It's able to step her through that whole process.

And you just have to keep it close on that. And to try and do it through a nutritionist without strength training, to me, is just, I would love to see the numbers on the success rate of that, how often that happens. Because in my experience, the only way this really works is we completely, we ignore the scale, we don't hyper-focused on the food. You're following the plan I gave you. You don't even need to know how many calories.

I know how many calories is, what I'm saying? All we're talking about is like, how do you feel? How's your sleep? How's your hair? How you can direct positive energy in that direction instead of all being doomed to loom. And the key, the key is that you have to communicate, and they have to make peace with the fact that it's going to be uncomfortable. Yeah.

It's going to be really uncomfortable. And I don't know. I've seen a lot of nutrition coaches, dieticians, and they just, they don't focus on that. But you need to because what happens to the person is they're doing it. And they're like, this can't be right. I feel terrible. Well, yeah, you feel terrible because it's scary as hell to you.

And a feeling of being satisfied is a very scary feeling to somebody who's had a history of eating disorder. Yep. Our next caller is Neha from California. Hi. Hi, how you doing? Hello, hello. Hi, everyone. Happy holidays.

Same. How can we help you? Oh, I must first say that it's surreal. You will not believe two of my resolutions for this year was one to finish the MAP's Anabolic program and the other one was to ask you question. And I'm so glad I get to finish both of them this year. Oh, good job. That's awesome.

What you got for us? I'll go ahead and read my email. Okay. Hi, Mind Pump. To start off, I must say, I love your. podcast as an Indian-born woman. I find it very interesting to hear your perspective and find your advice informative and sometimes outright hilarious. And I've previously gone from 151 to 128 pounds unhealthy in 2018 when I hired a young trainer who put me on a 1200 calorie diet and made me

believe that fat was bad for me. I still have hormonal acne from it. So I have recovered, but it has done trauma on me. So as you can imagine, I gained all that weight back and especially I was going through stresses of graduate school. So it was natural that I would get it all back. So my current situation now, I'm a 32 year old, five feet tall female weighing around 148.4 pounds and 34.1 body fat percent. This is measured using my scale at home, which might be wrong. And I started MAP's Anabolic program on July 1st when I was 149. 4 pounds and similar body fat percentage. I borrowed this program from a friend a couple of years ago.

I should say I gave it a try total of three times and I failed because I could not do like three times a week or two times a week without getting hurt. But this year I could happily finish it and I really enjoyed pre-phase and saw strength gains in phase one. But after that, I injured my neck and upper back and had to take couple of weeks off and do mobility and stretching. So phase three was too much for me, and I had to do a two-day-a-week version. Also note that I'm increasing my grip strength and just achieved a 10-second body weight dead hang on October 24th.

So this was also one of my 2025 resolutions to do a 10-second dead hang. And I finished the MAPS Anabolic program on November 9th at exactly the same weight I started at 148.4 pounds and 34. body 5%. And I'm currently consuming around 2,000 calories and burning around 2100. No cardio. I just do 10K steps a day. And as you can see, I'm in a very moderate deficit, 100 calories per day, which might be the reason I did not lose body fat or weight. I skipped, I should mention, I skipped all of the calf raises and also shoulder shrugs because of my neck and shoulder injuries. So going forward, I would like to start maps performance to ensure I can rehabilitate my back and I'm planning to go on a deficit of 16 to 1,700 calories starting on November 12th, which I did.

And you have the first five days of the MAP's performance on YouTube, which is what I was following. I basically do the three foundational days and I repeat the two mobilities every alternate day. And I'm almost about to finish the first phase. I was about to buy a program, but I did not know which one to do. So it's perfect that I'm talking to you now. So currently I feel very flabby and I'm not used to feeling this heavy at 148 pounds. My happy place typically is around 125 to 130 pounds. That's where I feel the best in my body.

And that's something I would like to achieve around 130 pounds with 25% body fat. I haven't been that for a long time and I feel very flabby. Can you recommend how I can go on a cut while ensuring I don't hurt my neck? My neck injury is because of loading. the squat rack wrong on my neck three years ago. So I did, I think, 120 pounds. Then I went home and I got up at three in the morning with my right side of the neck and shoulders swelled up because I'm pretty sure I did something wrong there. So I would like to be conscious of not loading things on my back until I rehabilitated completely and I'm currently not at all confident. All of my squats

that I do, deadlifts are completely with dumbles. So currently I can do a 45 pound dumbbell squat, but I would like to make progress on the strengths and start loading my back again very safely. So I wanted to see what advice you can give me. And another interesting thing is that I commute to work, driving two hours every day, and I also strain my neck because of that.

So I do mobility stretches like morning and evening, but is there something else that I could do? to make sure that I am on the right path for 2020. Neha, have you ever worked in person with a trainer or correctional exercise specialist? I have actually gone to an in-person trainer. This was the wrong person I hired in 2018. So that was bad. After that, it turned me off a little.

Then I went to physical therapy an year and half ago when I injured my neck and back. Okay. And that was very helpful. They basically gave me like foam roller exercises. the angel hand movements and stuff, which was great, which is what I do till now. And I also do the wall circles that you have on your YouTube. Good. How long did you work with a physical therapist?

What did that look like? It was around three months. And it was basically like heat pads followed by stretches. And him mentioning that I should not do any overhead presses for a while. So I should not pick anything up above my shoulders because my muscle. because my muscle patterns are all wrongly trained to protect my neck from that injury. Correctional exercise would benefit you a lot. Yeah, absolutely.

You need a specialist to work with you for a little while because there's a movement pattern issue that can probably get corrected. But until it gets corrected, this is going to be a repeating issue. Like the fact that your neck hurts you when you drive tells me that we need some correctional exercise. You're not near us, are you? Are you in the San Jose, California area? Are you, are you far away? I'm in Santa Barbara, so just four hours down. Okay. So I'm going to refer, I'm going to have Doug refer you to a good friend of ours,

and he's the best exercise specialist, correctional exercise specialist I know. He also works virtually, and he does a good job virtually. And so we're going to send you his contact. He's the best. Like, I've never met anybody as good as him. He's also very familiar with all of our maps program. So after he does correctional work with you, he'll recommend the right direction for maps also. Yeah, but I think you'll probably...

Start there, though, yeah. I think you'll start there, and I think a Maps 15 protocol will probably be your best option. Mass 15 are symmetry as well. Or symmetry. Yeah, yeah. He'll send you on that. We'll take care of the program, but Brinket needs to do some of the work with you first.

That's where this will set you up for success. Now, nutrition-wise, you know, I think if you're doing proper strength training, what we want to do is build strength and muscle, which will set you up well for the fat loss. Your calories aren't bad, but to cut from 2,000 calories, we're going to hit a plateau. Fast. And then you're going to be stuck at 1,400 calories at some point. Yeah.

And then where do we go from there, you know? Yeah, 2,000 calories does seem like a lot, though. Yeah. Like, during the holidays, I was eating around 2,500 calories for the week. And I felt really bad, like, the entire time. It also depends what the calories are. But here's a thing. It's not that 2,000 calories are high.

it's that I would like you to fall to 2,000 calories for your cut. Yeah. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. So a good reverse diet with strength training will help do that. But the problem is for us to build muscle, we're going to need progressive overload. We're going to need a level of intensity. But if we don't figure out what's causing the upper back and neck pain, that's going to keep getting in the way as you get stronger.

So you'll progress, progress, and then we've got to back down again. Dr. Brink's going to be able to help you. This is his specialty. This is, he's going to give you movements, stuff to do every day, and you continue to work on that. And you're going to start to notice how much better you feel. And then we talk about, okay, how do we load the bar again? How do we start pushing the weight? And then we increase the calories to Sal's point.

With really good strength training. Yeah, but first we do the correctional work. Yeah. And he's the best. I've never worked with anybody better than him. And I've worked with a lot of really good people. That sounds awesome. And I must say, like, I listen to you guys like every other day.

like whenever your podcast drops, and the first person to listen to, and my husband goes, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm just listening to the guys. Like, well, I'm making coffee and stuff. So I should say I took your advice for reverse dieting seriously.

Like at the beginning of anabolic program, my maintenance was 1,800. And I went all the way to 2,200, all because of you. Oh, good. So I appreciate that. But we'll be in contact because Brink will tell us what you need and then we'll just hook you up. Yep. Awesome.

Thank you so much, you guys. You got it. Good year. Thank you. Happy New Year. You too. Yeah, I need, you know, I'm glad we got, well, first off, obviously sucks that she's got something going on there. And, you know, I asked her about physical therapy because here's my experience with physical therapy.

First of all, physical therapists are incredible at correctional exercise. That being said, in the clinical setting, oftentimes they're dealing with multiple people. Six people. And they go, you do this. You do that. You do this. And it's like, no. What, what you need?

Well, there's no plan after it either. And it's, you need especially, like, someone to look at you. watch your movement pattern, correct it in the month, not just leave you to do, here, put this on, do that, you know, type of deal. And three months sounds like a long time, but I bet a lot of that was on her own with just like, hey, do this and whatever. You've heard me talk about on the show when I, when I fired mine, I was, I didn't tell mine that I was a personal trainer and then I knew this stuff.

And I remember they put me in this like, this is when I was rehabbing the ACL, and I, one of the, one of the, you know, we're coming by, leg extensions with weights on my ankles, then I do a, then ball squats. And I'm doing ball squats and the physical therapist walks away. Do that for two minutes and then walks away. Exactly. And it's like, now I know as a trainer that as I squat down when I've got an injury like that, the natural thing is going to be shift my weight over to my strong side.

But I know that. The average person is not going to know that. Yeah, they're not going to know that. They should go up and down, up and down. And then now they create this pattern that's going to, the stronger side dominates. And then they can't figure out why they have low back pain. She's momentum. Yeah.

So you see that a lot. And it's not a knock on physical things. therapist. It's just a lot of times they put them in these. It's the system designs it that way. I had an incredible physical therapist that work in my studio, but she left that setting and went private precisely because of that. Yes. And the results she got with people were just, I mean, miraculous. They were mind-blowing. And Dr. Brink's just, he's so good. And so it's like, you know, you want to build muscle and strength. If you have, if you need correctional exercise and you don't address that first, it ain't going to happen.

The second you get stronger, you get hurt. The problem gets worse. And he's just going to keep happening. It's like trying to build a house with no foundation. I mean, you can try and... The house on sand. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep. So look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

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