Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2779 : Is Hormone Therapy Healthy?

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Starting point is 00:02:24 Taking hormones as you age. is becoming far more popular than it ever has in the past. Today, more people are opting in for hormone replacement therapy than ever, but is it actually healthy? Is it good for you? That's what we're going to talk about today. Let's get to it. I sure hope so.

Starting point is 00:02:42 You told Justin and I, we should. Yeah. You like to set us up. I was going to say, just kidding. I just read a study. No, you know, psych. This is like, this is a big topic of conversation. now in the health and fitness space.

Starting point is 00:03:00 And it wasn't, I mean, it really wasn't that long ago when nobody really talked about it that much. I know 15 years ago, testosterone, so testosterone replacement therapy was accepted far sooner than hormone replacement therapy. Hormone replacement therapy refers to, you know, kind of the general hormones that you would want to either, you know, mess with to bring up to, you know, youthful levels. But before that, men were just take testosterone. And so that was accepted earlier on.

Starting point is 00:03:32 But even 15 years ago, it wasn't super accepted. Oh, yeah. It's much more taboo. No. And part of it is testosterone is a performance enhancing hormone. So athletes would abuse testosterone. Of course, when no bodybuilders use testosterone and steroids. So it's kind of like this taboo thing.

Starting point is 00:03:48 But today, more and more men and women are using hormones replacement therapy. And women in particular, now this is really starting to climb. where you're seeing women when they're in paramedopause and menopause bringing the hormones up to their youthful levels through exogenous, you know, methods. And so it's just everywhere. And one of the questions I get asked often is, is it healthy? You know, that's a big one. Like, is it actually good for? Is it okay?

Starting point is 00:04:18 Well, that new segment with the perimenopause, I mean, they see so much benefit from, you know, going that route and like really looking into like hormone. help exogenous hormone help with that. So my, credit my mother-in-law just how far ahead of her time she was. You know, she's been coaching and helping, she's in her 70s and she's been coaching and helping people for, you know, decades.

Starting point is 00:04:43 And I remember, you know, 16 years ago when I first came into the family, she was like the first person I'd ever even heard tell her daughters and stuff that, you know, hey, when you're early in your, in your 20s, go get your hormones all checked. So we see where your baseline is because, you know, in your 30s to 40s, you'll want to make sure that's all balanced out. And a lot of that had come from just her experience.

Starting point is 00:05:08 Now, she's had a lot of medical doctor friends that were ahead of their time also that were saying and doing things way more controversial than what is widely accepted now, you know, 20, 30 years ago. And she would talk about like just so many, so many people that she would coach and help that she, she quickly realized that like the first thing before she would help them with life coaching so that she'd end up sending them to this doctor because she goes it was night and day difference trying to help somebody whose hormones were in balance versus somebody that was out of balance and so many people were so unaware of it especially women that you know go get that checked go go have that all balanced out and she just saw this huge significant difference but that was way way before it was popular it's like just now becoming popular

Starting point is 00:05:56 It is. And a lot of people are talking about it. Doctors are coming out and talking about it. And research is starting to emerge. We have more research on just testosterone replacement therapy or individual hormones than when they, you know, balance out the kind of the milieu of them. But, you know, there's a couple things that just kind of set the context here of this conversation. Because here's what I'll hear from people. It's not natural, right?

Starting point is 00:06:17 So I'll hear people say, well, yeah, you're supposed to go through paramedipause and menopause. And maybe you're supposed to have lower testosterone in your 60s than you were when you were 18 or growth. hormone that, you know, drops or whatever. Like, that's supposed to happen. So that means that that's healthier. But there's, we really have to paint the context properly because, and we do this all the time on the show in regards to nutrition and fitness. We do this all the time.

Starting point is 00:06:44 So you can either look at nutrition and fitness as perfect optimization for longevity, or you can look at it in our opinion in the more accurate way, which is what's healthy, but what also improves your quality of life? Yep. Okay. So I'll give you an example of that. Alcohol. Alcohol, not healthy for you.

Starting point is 00:07:05 There is no dose that's healthy. Period. End of story. So I know in the past, we've heard crappy studies say like a glass of wine. It's not healthy in any way, shape, or form. One glass of wine is bad for you. Ten is worse. There is no amount of alcohol that's healthy for you.

Starting point is 00:07:21 And yet, what we see in population studies is that sometimes, alcohol consumption leads to longevity? How is that possible? It's not the alcohol. It's what you do when you're having it. It's the social component. It's the improvement and quality of life in many cases. So you look at certain cultures where they're not drinking alone,

Starting point is 00:07:43 they'll have a glass, but they're doing it with friends. And really what you're looking at are when people are socializing and being getting. I'm not talking about getting smashed. I'm not talking about that stuff. But my point is life quality is also something we need to. to consider, not just what's perfect.

Starting point is 00:08:00 And so now let's talk about hormones. When a woman goes through menopause, okay, look at the data on this, everybody. This is, we have good data on this. Look at the rate of anxiety, depression, and divorce when women go through menopause, spikes through the roof. I've seen those numbers. It spikes through the roof. It's a major hormone change.

Starting point is 00:08:23 Yes, it's a natural one. But it's a challenging one. And I think what we've done, especially to women, is you kind of gaslit them into saying, look, we just deal with it. Your grandmother dealt with it. Your mom dealt with it. Just deal with it. Meanwhile, they're going through and this thing and they're like, I feel horrible and I'm angry

Starting point is 00:08:40 or I'm anxious and what's going on. I don't feel like myself, you know, type of deal. So we have to consider quality of life and also look at longevity. You have to look at all those things. Well, this was my point earlier about my mother-in-law. like the if you were to ask her what were the the majority of her clientele like majority of our clientele we train we could tell you a percentage a large percentage where you know middle aged women is what we coached more than anything else and women that were going through menopause was like her number one clientele and they normally would come to her when they're when they were struggling with their marriage their life and their things and so she quickly realized that like you going through this and getting your hormones balance and fix makes this it's all it's hard life and is hard. Marriage is hard.

Starting point is 00:09:26 It's not going to fix things. Right. Kids are hard. All these things are hard. When your hormones are all out of whack, too, it just exacerbates that to the 10th degree. And then also disrupts things like sleep and recovery and poor sleep and poor recovery on top of hormones, on top of the, I mean, has a ball effect. So it's not weird to me that the data, to your point, points to all these things like depression and divorce and all that. Of course, you know.

Starting point is 00:09:53 Now, now we'll just talk about test. testosterone because we do have good data on testosterone alone. And for a man, and I'm going to speak carefully here, but I've confirmed this with a lot of the experts we've had on the show who are actual hormone doctors. It tends to be easier to do hormone replacement therapy for a man than it is for a woman. In many cases for a man, it's literally just testosterone. Yeah. And so we have good data on this, my point with this. And so when you see the, when you look at low testosterone, clinically low testosterone, what does that number look like?

Starting point is 00:10:22 it's probably below a total of around 300. This is what the lab results, the lab measurements will show. So below a total of 300 is clinically low. You see negative health effects, measurable negative health effects, things like increased rates of bone fracture, obesity, you know, some cancer rates actually get worse, heart disease in some studies actually gets a little worse when testosterone is clinically low. Now, that's if you're clinically male. But what if you're around 400, 450, but you have symptoms of low testosterone, like low libido, low energy, low motivation, low drive? Well, then now we're

Starting point is 00:11:08 looking at using testosterone as a way to improve quality of life, which I would argue quality of life may actually contribute to longevity as well. I think we can get carried away with that. but I do think having a better quality of life, and we can look at separate data that shows when you're happier, you have more energy, you're doing things you enjoy, you tend to live longer versus when you're more depressed and anxious and those types of things.

Starting point is 00:11:33 It's hard to really single it out, but that's where I would bet. So my point is this is much more complicated than people are led to believe. But again, like, I think it's all of it. So when you look at the forward thinking, or you talk to the forward thinking hormone specialist, today, they do a combination of tests and measurements plus asking them, how is your quality

Starting point is 00:11:57 of life? How do you feel? Well, this is why I think there's so much value to even somebody who is young, feeling healthy and in their prime, getting full panels to see where their baseline is. Because now you've got a reference. Yes. So to your point, you know, and Doug's a great example, this is somebody that, you know, naturally has these really high testosterone. Imagine, okay, when he gets in his mid-70s or 80s. If he were to have never tested before, didn't know what his baseline is. And they test him at 75-80, and they're like, bro, you're at, you're at $500.

Starting point is 00:12:30 You're fine. You're a 500. You're amazing. You're for your age. Oh, my God, you're amazing. Little did they know that he's been running at a thousand. $1,000 to $1,100 for most of his life. And he might be having all these things like, I just feel so weak and tired.

Starting point is 00:12:44 And he's all these symptoms because his testosterone levels have cut in half of what most to his life he's used to. He would never know that had he not been consistently doing his blood work. And so for the listener who was like, oh, I'm fine or, oh, I feel good or I'm in my prime, I think there's so much value to go get a full panel and get an idea of what that data looks like. Because at some point, that will change for everybody. It changes for everybody.

Starting point is 00:13:11 Well, my argument around it looks kind of like this. Like, of course, if you go crazy in any direction, you know, if you're trying to, you know, dramatically improve performance, you start to go in that route, like you're going to start sacrificing health and longevity. But if you kind of do things in a realistic way, or should I say in a conservative way with hormone replacement therapy, in my opinion, if it improves your quality of life, it's probably going to improve your longevity, not necessarily because your improvement in quality of life, although that's part of it, but I think it's because it encourages behaviors that tend to contribute to longevity. So what do I mean by that? Well, I've worked

Starting point is 00:13:47 with enough people now to know that when they're feeling crappy and then they go on hormone replacement therapy and they feel way better, they work out more. They have better eating habits. When people feel crappy, anxious, depressed, low energy, we tend to reach more for the hyper-palatable, quick-fix foods that make us feel good temporarily. We tend to drink more. We tend to do things more to kind of self-medicate. You're more reserved. You're pulled back. Less movement is happening. There's a lot of downstream effects. That's right. So if it improves the quality of your life,

Starting point is 00:14:21 which then leads to better behaviors, then I think it does improve longevity. Because again, we've worked with enough people. People tend to work out more. I mean, I have people that are close to me, both men and women, that went on hormone therapy. And they're like, oh, my God, I'm working out a few days a week again.

Starting point is 00:14:39 I feel like I can. My diet's on point. I'm motivated. So I'm like, okay, well, that alone has got to have a good contributing factor to your longevity. Just doing that. So just to play devil's advocate because there is a downside or a challenge that I've seen some of my clients that go this direction or that I've had on hormone replacement therapy

Starting point is 00:15:03 is sometimes there are things, lifestyle changes that they could be making that could show an improvement and they go the synthetic route. And so then those signals seem to get blunted. For example. Like they could fix their sleep first. Right. Exactly. Like there's clients that I've had before that are overtrained, overstress, not sleeping very well.

Starting point is 00:15:27 Then they go on hormone replacement therapy. And of course, they feel better. Right. Because a lot of those things that they were doing to their body was suppressing their natural testosterone levels. And so that would be the one thing that I would warn people that don't have any sort of guidance through that. it would be because, you know, the problem with its popularity now, too, is everybody is straight there without a job. Yeah, and everybody in their mother now has access to a hormone replacement clinic now. And they're like, it's like medical marijuana today is what medical marijuana was just 15 years ago.

Starting point is 00:16:02 They're popping up all over the place. And you don't know who's a great, who's great, who's not. There's a lot of easy, easy access to it. And you hear even some young people that are taking it probably well before they even need it. And so the one thing that I would caution is that, you know, there's, there is a lot of lifestyle changes that will give you a low testosterone. Like there's, you, if you have chronic bad sleep, you chronically overtrain and under eat, you know, and or and don't hit essentials and fats and do things like that. Like, man, this will, this will give you some more symptoms as low testosterone. And, and a lot of times the testosterone could just mask that.

Starting point is 00:16:39 And so addressing that, I think, or having somebody who's coaching you through that process. I think is so valuable because if I had a client that we were coaching here and they were like, hey, I'm thinking about going on home replacement therapy, we would address those things first to see if I can do that. And then if still, he's like, I don't know, I'm getting good sleep or I get to bed this time and I'm eating this way and we've reduced the training from here and, you know, work life balance is good. And yet I still feel this way.

Starting point is 00:17:10 Libito's crashed. I'm still coming back at these numbers. it's like, okay, you're a great candidate for this because it's going to be life-changing. I'm glad you said that natural good hormone profile is better than a synthetic good hormone profile. It's always the better option. Always a better option.

Starting point is 00:17:26 And Dr. Lauren Fitz, she said it really good. She goes, yeah, we don't want to throw hormones on a dumpster fire. So it's like if your diet is terrible, you're not exercising, your lifestyle is unhealthy, and you're going to just go take a bunch of hormones, not only is it not going to help you much, but what it actually might do is it might actually be gasoline on a fire.

Starting point is 00:17:49 You know, if you're in a pro-cancer state or pro-heart disease state and I'm going to put myself in a high testosterone place or put some growth hormone on myself, it might actually be bad for you. And good hormone specialists know this. I don't, the ones we know are really good. I'm sure there's some that are out there that aren't great and as evidenced by some of the plastic surgeons that are out there

Starting point is 00:18:09 that continue to do plastic surgery on people. You're like, dude, what are you doing for? Don't you say something to this person? So I'm sure there's some bad ones out there. But the ones we know, they won't give you hormone replacement therapy unless you're exercising, unless you're eating right.

Starting point is 00:18:23 You know, they're not going to put you on those things because they don't want to make things worse. Speaking of that, you brought a plastic surgery, did you see the thread that that conversation started? No. Oh, you didn't see that. Oh, I was actually really, I thought it was a really good thread. You know, that conversation we just had last week, right?

Starting point is 00:18:37 No, what? Yeah, we talked to the Botox? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, man, when we hung up the mics, it doesn't happen all the time because for the most part, I don't give a shit. But this time I was just like, you know, I don't want to. I hope I didn't offend or come off as like at all I was judging. I was talking about a real conversation that my wife and I have that and how I feel about it.

Starting point is 00:18:56 And especially considering that I'm very aware of all the holistic things that you can do for for skin health and longevity and anti-aging. And I'm pro a lot of that stuff. I'm pro that. And I'm all for trying to do that. And I'm not a big fan of the other. It doesn't mean that I was. And so I wasn't sure how it came off. I don't listen to the podcast anymore.

Starting point is 00:19:17 And so I remember when we hung up, I was like, I hope that doesn't like. But a thread started on our Facebook forum. It actually started a really good discussion and a lot of great positive feedback on us having that dialogue. Matter of fact,

Starting point is 00:19:28 a lot of people thanked us for kind of putting it out there. There's a lot of people that commented that were in their mid-20s and so many of their friends are doing it. Starting. Yeah. And they feel like they should, They should, and they're, so they feel all, they feel all conflicting because they're the only friend who's not doing the Botox injections and they're 26. And it's just like, whoa, that's crazy. But I mean, that's, again, that's how it starts. Right. And then I brought up a long time ago that, that, that real thing called perception drift. And you just, you don't realize it. And you had, oh, just a little bit of this or a little bit of that. And then before long, everybody kind of starts to look the same because they're doing kind of the same strategy with every single person. And so I'm just. Yeah. And they don't really know.

Starting point is 00:20:09 know the other options, alternatives out there and like just ways to just overall health is going to improve your skin and like all of that's going to kind of resolve itself like to a certain degree. But I get it because like, yeah, there's a lot of these ladies and a lot of, you know, my wife's friends. It's just like the go-to. It's just the things, I can solve this. I see something here. I don't like it. I'm just going to solve it, you know, and then not really thinking about any kind of downstream effects. Isn't it interesting, too, how both sexes are guilty of this? I mean, we get jacked for other dudes.

Starting point is 00:20:44 Yeah. You know, we claim it's in pursuit of women, but women already agreed that it's 12 to 15%. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And girls are the same way, too. I don't think any dudes just like, yeah, I totally love the Botoxed out fucking plastic surgery chick.

Starting point is 00:20:56 You know what I'm saying? So they're obviously doing it for chicks too. It's like both sexes are guilty. And isn't that, is that kind of- deny that until I would walk in to, like, school or something. And like, I want to be the jacked dad, dude. I want to dominate. I can't.

Starting point is 00:21:11 And it's the dads you want to do. Yeah. It's not the mobs. I'm not, I care about the moms. Isn't that funny though? Isn't that, is it's funny that we,

Starting point is 00:21:19 I think both sexes claim that they do it for this. It's like, no, it's really, it's. Well, that's what you figure out as a dude. You start working out and you start building muscle. And so dudes start coming on you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:30 Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, there's not a lot from an appearance standpoint that being fit and healthy won't fix. Right. Yeah. Just because I've... The standard, really.

Starting point is 00:21:41 Just because I've worked in gyms for so long, you know, you'll run into people who are in their 60s and 70s who are really fit and healthy. Who've been doing it for a long time. And I mean genuinely. I don't mean, like, fake, fit and healthy. But people who are like, men and women who are like, oh, no, I've been living this lifestyle forever. I love working out. They eat healthy. And you can see...

Starting point is 00:22:01 I remember I brought this up before. There was this woman once. This is when I was in my... I must have been 20. There was this woman once that was one. working out full gray hair. And she was older. And she was working out.

Starting point is 00:22:14 She would come in all the time. And I remember, I was like, man, I want to say something to her. She looks amazing. So I went up to her and I introduced myself. And she was in, I don't remember how she was in her 60s. And she had wrinkles. I mean, she looked like a 60 year old when you really look closely. But she was so fit and healthy and vibrant.

Starting point is 00:22:29 She was attractive. I remember thinking this is a 20 year old. Like, oh my God, she's an attractive woman. Yeah. And look, if you get, if you're fit as you get old, It's the first thing you want to tell somebody is how old you are. That never happens in real life. You talk to a fit person in their 50, 60, 70s.

Starting point is 00:22:45 They'll try to insert their age in some way. Oh, by the way, you know I'm 70? Yeah. And just kind of blow your mind. So it's not a lot that fitness and health can't fix. I think we just try to band-aid it with other things. But if you just exercise and kind of eat right and, you know, it really takes care of a lot of that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:00 You brought up the what you said about men and women, dude. I got a study for you guys, dude. Don't play controversial stuff. Oh, snap. But I think, I don't think it's surprising. So there was a study in, there was a 2025 college free speech ranking survey of over 59,000 U.S. college students. It's a lot. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:21 Male students demonstrated greater tolerance for political enemies than women showed for their allies. So in other words. Wait, wait, wait. So they're on like their team. Yeah. And they're less acceptable. Okay, wait, wait, wait, explain how they did this. What was the survey?

Starting point is 00:23:45 How are the questions? Do you have any idea? Did they greater tolerance for allowing campus speakers with opposing political views than female students did for speakers aligned with their own idea? That makes no sense. Think about it. I am.

Starting point is 00:23:57 Think about it. What do women always say? What do women always say? I'll tell you, I'll tell you another study. When men and women are surveyed, Would you prefer to have a male or female boss? Women, more than men, would rather have a male boss. That's what the study show.

Starting point is 00:24:12 So this points to... That's something else, though, dude. That's a male fantasy thing. No, no. I don't be like that, no. That's what you think. Adam has to go there. No, so it says that men are three and a half times more likely than women to be perfectly

Starting point is 00:24:31 tolerant, willing to allow any speaker regardless of disagreement, than women are, for even people with the same ideology. Yeah, but that doesn't make sense to me why, if they agree with them, why they're, they may disagree on something else or whatever. They're still looking for something? Well, what it points to is, like, there's research that shows this, just how, you ask a woman, and she'll tell you, oh, women are way, way harder on each other than that.

Starting point is 00:24:59 Yeah, well, that's also, they're, they're, they're, We had that great discussion with Adam Lane Smith, and we're talking about CEO and CEOO, and one of the strengths that a woman has is her ability to, like, poke holes in the plan, like, and do that. And so that's also highlighting the strength of their abilities, is that they are built in a way to, like, be skeptical, is to question, to poke holes, to do those things like that.

Starting point is 00:25:23 So what that's also highlighting that. I don't know if it points to that as much as there's other data that shows how. Well, it all depends on how you want to read it. into it, right? If you read into it, you can definitely read into it. It's more of a jealousy thing. Is that what it's alluding to? Well, so there's studies on this on how men compete and how women compete. So there are studies on competition. Men, when they compete with each other, it's very open head-on. We're going to compete. We're going to see wins or we're going to fight

Starting point is 00:25:48 or we're going to do this. When women compete with each other, it's very behind the scenes. It's what the data shows. And so there is distrust and competition behind the scenes versus, you know, like you look at, like, boys, I was just talking about this with my wife. We were driving and we stopped the stoplight had the window open and there's these four boys hanging out and they're like, hey, Mark, what are we going to do? Yeah, Mark, where are we going?

Starting point is 00:26:10 And I'm like, you'll notice this with boys. Immediately they elect a leader and they follow and they go. Yeah. Whereas women, it's more of a consensus. Yeah, but you also think that's partly because that's not a natural thing for them. That's right. Like with a bunch of dudes that were,

Starting point is 00:26:28 naturally meant to lead. One of the guys is going to step forward and do it. Then the rest of us fall in line. Or maybe with the women, it's just like, oh, I'm not sure who is, you know what I'm saying? So in the competitive studies, again, they show it's behind the scenes. It's very much like we're going to talk. We're going to make consensus.

Starting point is 00:26:42 I'm going to build an alliance over here. Me, you and you. Let's decide that we're not going to, we're going to do this. And we won't tell her, but we're going to work behind the scenes to figure that out, whereas dudes are like straight up, head out, head on. And so this is kind of what it's pointing to. But I think, and this, this. study was flying all over social media.

Starting point is 00:27:01 Because, of course, people are poking fun at each other with it. Well, since we're going down the sexist direction. We're going to get roasted for this conversation. We may as well go all the way in since I heard something that I thought was, I heard something that I thought was an interesting hot take that I thought was just maybe go like, oh, that's something that is not talked about on social media that I think we are watching unfold. And maybe there's,

Starting point is 00:27:30 maybe there are some studies that you can connect these dots to or you'll find this interesting that I thought was an interesting point is that never in history have you had a time where, um,

Starting point is 00:27:40 women can put themselves out there in a risque way, half naked or all the way naked, and get all kinds of admiration and love and, and likes and all the stuff and attention without any risk of danger. Oh, I see. And say,

Starting point is 00:27:57 it's safe, It's safe. Safe. And because of that, it's changing society and culture and the dynamic of, because in the, think about that for a second, just not even 100 years ago, but not, but 50 years ago, if you were to put yourself in front of a thousand men half naked, you would, you would never do that because of the simple fact that chances are, and of the thousand dudes, there's going to be probably a couple in there that you can't trust in or dangerous or, which, by the way, to be clear,

Starting point is 00:28:27 it's still dangerous. It's just safer. Yeah. Still dangerous to it. Also, it depends where you are in the world. Oh, big time. Well, yeah. But it only holds true.

Starting point is 00:28:35 But no one's really talking about that as like how that's really starting to shift culture and that dynamic. And I thought that was an interesting point that I heard. And I thought, oh, I've never really thought about it from that angle and how that's probably not a good thing at all because that had a natural limiter there for that reason, right? Like that if you were to do that in society. It's good that it's safer.

Starting point is 00:28:56 That's for sure. Yeah. But now we're looking at what... Well, then what it pushes... But then you push boundaries because of that, right? Because now that there's this... Well, yeah, you see that, like, if you look at the ones that are most successful, it's these... Well, I've seen this all over, like Chris Williamson.

Starting point is 00:29:11 A bunch of people have interviewed this lady, Bonnie Blue, I guess her name is, whatever. Oh, is that girl that's left of the bunch of... Yeah, the bunch of guys, like thousands of guys or whatever on the day. Oh, Chris interviewed her? Uh-huh. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, and so it's... Because she's very bold and very, like, outspoken.

Starting point is 00:29:26 about, you know, being empowered to do these types of things. But, yeah, but you see this because it's, it's now safer. Like, there's a lot of volume in terms of your options. And so now it's like, where does all the guys attention go to the more risky? Like, I'm doing this in public. Like, again, I don't know a whole lot about this story, but I guess recently the national championship just happened. Yes. Oh, tell me about this story.

Starting point is 00:29:54 I saw it going around. It's going viral around. Yeah, it was this girl that's like a porn star that they panned over to. And she was from Miami, like on the sidelines. And like everybody, I guess people recognized her for her body of work. And we're concerned. That was so politically correct. Thanks.

Starting point is 00:30:19 I'm trying to work on what I describe these things. That's really good. But yeah, so she, and I don't even know what the heat is. I think it's from like just because it's national television and like families. Yeah. And so there was a lot of chatter of like, why are you, you know, highlighting. So did the, okay, sorry to interrupt you, but I'm like so curious because I just came in my feet. I need to know more about the story.

Starting point is 00:30:39 So maybe Doug can start looking it up. Yeah, look it up. Yeah, he was at the championship Indiana. Indiana and Miami. College football game. And the producer and the announcer panned over to her. And so I just caught it. It's all over the news.

Starting point is 00:30:52 And so I didn't get a chance like read into it. But I'm like, what is this? Why is everyone making such a big? deal about the girl. I didn't know who she was. Yeah. So I didn't, I couldn't figure out why. People were making captions like, oh, producer and a cameraman are going to go to jail or something. I'm like, what?

Starting point is 00:31:07 And obviously, does it all? No, no, no. She was just in the, because they just didn't want her on. What I'm wondering is did the announcer, the announcer must have comment on the show. Yeah, they must comment. I didn't catch that part of it. Are you looking at it up, Doug? Yeah, this actress is a Bella Danger. And so during the game between Miami and Texas A&M,

Starting point is 00:31:29 the cameras caught her in the stands leading to massive social media reaction. I think it's funny that everybody recognized her in the first place. Yeah, that's the funny part. Well, so that's what I didn't know, was did everyone recognize it or did the announcer say something? Oh, I don't know. That's what I don't know.

Starting point is 00:31:45 Because I saw clips of them saying that the cameraman, the announcer, the ones that are in trouble because they obviously knew what they were doing by panic. The cameraman for sure knew. Well, they have to because, okay, they do this is, we've seen this forever in boxing fights and UFC forever. What do they always do? Yeah, they pick the celebrities. And they always pick the celebrities and the cameraman goes over to. So it's not, to me, it's not that weird. It's obviously because of what she does, it's become controversial. But it seems like, the only reason I bring that up was because of that fact of like, well, I don't know how acceptable, you know, it is in terms of culture right now.

Starting point is 00:32:20 Like, it might be shifting. the whole porn. Well, the fact that they highlight it is, is this her? Yeah, I guess so. Okay. I mean, she's just dressed normal. Don't recognize her, yeah. Well, no, I don't.

Starting point is 00:32:33 Well, the Moe, the one that I, the, was that just, does that look like that's her? No. No, yeah. It's not her? I think you have the wrong one. The wrong one, okay. Yeah. It's Miami versus Indiana.

Starting point is 00:32:43 Yeah. That's the game. No, that's the game. No, that's the game. Oh, versus Texas A&M. Yeah. No, that's it. Texas A&M.

Starting point is 00:32:48 Okay. Well, maybe I have the wrong. It says fans, lose their mind as ESPN shows. All right. So this has happened before then. Oh, really? Has it?

Starting point is 00:32:57 I'm trying to find it right now before he goes. Well, that's interesting. You know, you mentioned Adam. You said earlier how there's like the checks and balances. Yeah. I think that's true for so many things. Yeah. Like there was a check for a long time.

Starting point is 00:33:10 If you went out in public and you said something really messed up or you harassed somebody or you, you know, you made a comment that was like. What a jerk. Yeah. There was a risk of getting punched. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:25 Now, is it good that you get punched? No. But now that there's no risk of that because of social media. Yeah. The narcissist types can now just become popular because their takes are so controversial and so whatever. Nobody's checking them like you would in the real world. And so they can go out and just say whatever. And so that's created this weird situation where the ones get.

Starting point is 00:33:51 getting fame and attention are the ones who in the real world would not get that kind of. Because they couldn't. They couldn't. They couldn't. It's like, you know, I see sometimes these dudes that will make these, like these real popular dudes that make these posts. I'm like, you know what that guy is? That's the guy in the group that at first you're kind of like, oh, he's funny. And then afterwards, all the guys look at each other go, we don't like this guy.

Starting point is 00:34:13 He's a weasel. Well, look at what's that famous virgin anti-Semitic guy right now? What's his name? Oh, yes. Nick Flintes. Yeah, that's an example right there. Exactly. That dude would never get a platform.

Starting point is 00:34:25 No. No, you get beat up in the group. It's actually weird that he's so popular. It's, well, maybe that. Or he's attracting more kids that are like that. Yeah. But you're right.

Starting point is 00:34:38 Because you know it's a good point too. That was the best, that was of the conversation that we had with Jordan Peterson. That was my favorite part or take that he brought up. Because at that point, this was right when Elon was taking over Twitter. And there was this hope that Elon was going to go in and save Twitter and make it this better place. And I remember asking him that question and his response. I don't think we can. Yeah. And it blew me away because I had not thought about it from that perspective of the way the algorithm works is it rewards the crazy outlandish, most extreme things. The dysfunctional

Starting point is 00:35:15 people in society. That in a real society would never tolerate. In a real world where we were all in a room or area, the thing that goes most viral or everybody's talking about is not, that person would not be able to do that. Well, there's also this myth in real life. There was this myth for a long time that, you know, strong, powerful, aggressive bullies, if we got them out of the way,

Starting point is 00:35:40 then everybody would be better because we assume that the weak, scared, you know, whatever frail guys would never be bullies if given power. We now see a lot of them have become powerful. A lot of them have developed. It become billionaires or millionaires because of tech and all that stuff. And guess what? They're just as bad if not worse.

Starting point is 00:36:00 Yeah. Because their power is much more far reaching. Yeah. So it's like, you know, I think human behavior is just human behavior. Yeah. But you're right. Those checks and balances. You know, back to like the scantily, you know, dressing scantily and all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:36:16 For most of it, I mean, for a lot of human history, it was, women that check women. It wasn't, you know, we look at men as the ones checking, but women really checked each other a lot because it was competitive. If you're going to dress that way, you're going to attract my husband or whatever. And so they would check each other quite a bit over that kind of thing. I mean, same things. I mean, for danger, for danger of that.

Starting point is 00:36:40 There's a different type of danger. No, no, it's competition. Well, I mean, okay, you think competition or like the danger of losing and wrecking your nuclear family, you know? Oh, I see what you're saying. I think men danger like physical danger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, it's causing potential danger to society.

Starting point is 00:36:56 It's like you're going to impact potentially my nuclear family, which we cared so much about 50 years ago, you're saying that we don't seem to care as much about it. Anyway, I got to, I want to talk about the new meal replacement shakes that we got. Oh, how do you like them? They're delicious. They're delicious. And your tummy can handle them.

Starting point is 00:37:11 They're fine. Yeah, so Quel is the company. This is chocolate food. Is that he said? Well. I think so. I'm going to. Is that.

Starting point is 00:37:17 Doug? I always had huge. Heal. Sorry. He said, he gets fancy. It's like fuel. Why do you make my protein powder of racist, bro? Hey, I was looking at Adam. Why you look at me while you do it?

Starting point is 00:37:33 Hey, Adam. Bequeh. Fuel. It's hilarious. It's delicious. So it's vegan protein. So you can have it. Macros are really good.

Starting point is 00:37:46 So this whole bottle is 400 calories. so it's like a meal, 18 grams of fat, 29 grams of carbs, 35 grams of protein. Oh, 35 grams of protein. And the protein sources that they use are really high quality. So in vegan sources,

Starting point is 00:37:59 pea protein, which is one of the main sources, is the highest and essential amino acid. Now, be honest, because we know how hard it is to make a vegan protein shake. It tastes really good.

Starting point is 00:38:08 Really? Yeah, it's really good. Oh, you make me want to try. No, I don't know. It's actually really, really good. Really? Yeah, it doesn't taste like a lot of food. I love that they're ready to drink.

Starting point is 00:38:16 I'm like, so. I like ready to drink. drink protein shakes. It's just super convenient. You know, put it in your fridge and you're in your set. She's a rich guy. You know, so much guy. All right, dude. The guy spends all his money, all his money on my Ferraris. That's why you spend all your money on supplements and shakes and bars. No, Hewle is, it's a really good company, really good ingredients. You know, it's got omega-6s, is omega-3s. It's got lots of nutrients. So it's not like a crappy, you know, a lot of times you see replacement shakes, especially ready to drink. Yeah. And they're

Starting point is 00:38:48 Basically just like trying to make it taste good. Yeah, yeah. But this is all of it. Well, I can't. They get a line of all kinds of stuff. So, and I know that our fridge is stocked now that they're working with us. So I'm curious to try. I see them all over the place.

Starting point is 00:38:59 They have like exploded in the last, just the last year. I remember when they first reached out, but they didn't have the ready to drink yet. No. It's because they taste good. I mean, the truth is when it comes to meal replacement or protein, yes, you want quality. You want all those things. That's what we'll talk about. We won't partner with anyone unless it's quality.

Starting point is 00:39:15 But for it to be popular, it has to taste good. Yeah. People just won't have a shake. I feel like you're making my argument. That doesn't take it. It's true. Now, I don't, I'll drink anything. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:23 I'll blend up tuna fish. That's right. That's why the real test will be when Justin and I tasted. I feel like, because I'm like, Sal is like, you know. Yeah, if you guys take it. I mean, you eat sardines. You're both pretty sardines in a can. I'm trying to think.

Starting point is 00:39:35 Who's more picky between the two, Justin? Justin's more picky. Way more picky. Way more picky. I was going to say you. I stick with the go-tos. Yeah. You're talking to the chicken nugget guy.

Starting point is 00:39:44 I don't fucking. This guy orders. Chicken strips. You guys eat more chicken nuggets. Dude, please. You guys are in chicken nugget denial. That's fine.

Starting point is 00:39:57 I own it. I have a question for you since we're on a topic of supplements and so of that. So, first of all, one, I didn't know that this parasite cleanse you got me on is like a gray market thing. Until people started asking me about it. And I realize that I'm not supposed to be telling.

Starting point is 00:40:16 I told you that too. I don't remember. Did he tell me this gray market? I don't know. I don't remember. I just trust this guy so much when he just tells me to take something I do. You're fine. And then I get people asking.

Starting point is 00:40:27 Yeah, it's great market, dude. Yeah, I didn't know that. So Ivermectin is part of it. You can get that. Oh, there's ivermectin in it. And then fenbendzol is the other one. And that's typically used with animals. But in other countries, people use humans, use it all the time.

Starting point is 00:40:42 It's been around for a long time. And it kills every parasite. And so when you buy it's kind of like gray market. Yeah, because I, people are, people are now asking. I don't recommend. I can't recommend. No, we can't. And I didn't either.

Starting point is 00:40:56 Thank God, I didn't. There's all kinds of crazy stuff. Because I saw like, you know, functional medicine doctors commenting under people asking me going like, you should probably consult your doctor before it. And I'm like, I didn't know I was taking something great market. I didn't know. But the reason why I'm asking that, so the reason, one, to bring. that up just to make that clear. By the way, have you noticed any improvement, any symptoms or anything

Starting point is 00:41:19 like that? You know, okay, yes, but I can I draw it back to that? It's hard to say, Sal, because you've got me on so many supplements that I've never in my life have I taken consistently I have. Yeah. And I'm on my diet, and I'm training really good. And I'm coming, I'm on my second, I'm finally two months recovered now. And so, and I'm still not 100. I'd say I'm like 8590. Nice, dude. So yeah, I had an 84 sleep scores. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm Orn't see 80. Are you the epitalin? So yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:48 Did that help asleep? I mean, again, I mean, you like to look for smoking guns. I'm more like, I'm doing all the things. I'm the kitchen scene, dude. Yeah, well, I'm doing all the things. And so I think a lot of what I feel is a lot of everything that I'm doing. Again, main point of bringing all this up is to bring up one of our other partners and ask you that this, this gray market thing that I'm taking, does it conflict with me taking seed?

Starting point is 00:42:12 No. No, keep taking your probiotic. Oh, because I stopped because I was worried. I thought it was. Okay. Okay. Would that be a good thing for me to be doing it more? Yep.

Starting point is 00:42:20 Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, good to know because I had Katrina and I pause that until. No, it doesn't, it will have no effect. As the saga goes on, you know, Katrina's now taking it because we didn't know that. We didn't know about that. I feel like he was, Doug, I feel like he was really like gray. Like, here, take this.

Starting point is 00:42:37 You'll be fine. You know, that was like the, the, the vitamin C. Doug's taking it. I've done it. Okay. Yeah. Did you notice? I didn't notice anything really.

Starting point is 00:42:45 Okay. So I feel good, but it could be a lot of things right now. It fixed my, dude, it fixed my gut, bro. It fixed my gut. I mean, the thing that I'm paying attention to the most, you know what sold me, you know what sold me? I told you guys what sold me was, you need some justice. I started reading up on the correlation between parasites and psoriasis. And over 50% of people who have psoriasis also suffer from a parasite.

Starting point is 00:43:12 Did your psorias getting better? Well, again, yes. right now it is, you know. Although I did notice at first it was a little bad, but it also says on the parisite thing that you might notice symptoms get worse. It's called the Herczheimer effect. So you get die off, you'll feel like, some people feel like garbage

Starting point is 00:43:27 at first. So this is what makes me think that it might be working is because I did, the first week, I had these kind of mild headaches every day. My psoriasis did feel pretty bad. And I actually, those are dissipating or gone away. And my psoriasis is like it's starting to get better right now. So again,

Starting point is 00:43:43 awesome. I'm doing all of things. Take your probiotic, take seed, no matter what. Same dose. Everything they're saying. I'll even tell you to take a probiotic when you take an antibiotic. Some people say it's a waste of time. But I think if you space them, it's not going to populate your gut, but I think it's good to even have good bacteria in there,

Starting point is 00:44:02 even if it's for a moment. Okay, so that's what I used to do it afterwards. Yeah. So you do it during. I still do it during. If I take an antibiotic at the AM, I'll take the probate. Mainly to offset any overgrowth of other things. Because you can get an overgrowth of,

Starting point is 00:44:15 fungus and things that antibiotics don't touch. And probiotic, even if it's in there temporarily or transiently, it helps. Okay, well, that excites me because I thought I was, exactly what you just described is what I thought I was wasting. I thought I was way, I don't want to waste. No, dude, I'm excited that we got it here finally because we went, I've been without seed now for a few weeks because they didn't send us any, which makes me angry. Seed.

Starting point is 00:44:38 I think, I think they're here now. Makes me so meth. So I went and bought. Nothing like threatened them on their commercials. long. I bought some. Yeah, so I bought some. I had to go buy some myself.

Starting point is 00:44:49 And what a difference. Huge difference. It's like, oh, man, I noticed a huge difference in my digestion. Yeah. Inflammation with it. Huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I was reading an article, side note on something less sexist.

Starting point is 00:45:03 Yeah. We covered all that. It was a study. Dude, I had another thing I was going to bring up. I'm not going to bring it up. Bro, why did you just pour get? We're already getting lit on this. You may as well go all in.

Starting point is 00:45:13 I'd rather that than you'd put it on another episode. Okay, fine. He's like, no, girls are moody. I've been mean to talk about this. Please, get it out now. We're already on fire right now. You guys know my track record of, like, watching cult shows and, like, you know, on Colt Watch. There's one I didn't realize, and this has been out for a bit on Netflix.

Starting point is 00:45:35 It's called Orgasm, Inc. But it was cool. Orgasm. Hey, they didn't get recommended to me. Hey. It was a cult. And it was run by women. And dude.

Starting point is 00:45:47 What did they do? It was so they started. Starting a Bella Danger? I mean, maybe she was part of it. But, nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:56 Now everybody's going to Google her. Way to go. Yeah. What about the porcelor? When he was younger, bro. Oh, I used to watch Bathsheba.

Starting point is 00:46:09 On the rooftop. Yeah. She was great. What she was. Anyway. So orgasm, Inc. Yeah, so they got popularity. I think this was a few years back.

Starting point is 00:46:20 And I mean, the whole message of it was, like, to get women to get an orgasm. Like, they, they were, like, highlighting this whole technique. And, like, so they would, of course, guys, like, you know, sign up for this, too. And, like, they were coming. They're basically, like, showed some finger technique and they're doing all this stuff and they're getting all graphics. Do it with your hand roll. I don't want to do it. You're going to get me to do this.

Starting point is 00:46:46 Come on, dude, just show you. Just give me an example. It's so funny because it's like, it was in San Francisco and it's like, right in our backyard. Of course. And some of these guys are something else. Like, you should see what they look like. But so they're there doing the thing. And, you know, this is all about.

Starting point is 00:47:01 So they're not getting their orgasm, but they're providing it for women. It's a safe thing that they created, whatever. It turns into, like. She has a TED talk that like explodes and it's like all about like you know most women don't ever like actually have an orgasm. And so and here's like the benefit. Was it like you achieve spiritual something? Yes. They started to turn it into that.

Starting point is 00:47:26 It's almost always through a sexual. Yeah, started with sex. And you know and it and I was like, okay, I've seen this before. But I haven't seen it with women like really guide directing. And the lady that was like in charge of this whole thing, you started like getting further along getting to her. backstory and it's like it's so dark like her whole thing was like she you know was molested rape and then she gets over this by being like you know uh like i basically she's she's it has no weight or power over her so so so hyper promiscuity so therefore yeah so hyper promiscuity but turns into

Starting point is 00:48:05 like some of her followers that are going through all this like now she's including men in in the mix and they're complaining because they're uncomfortable with it. So there's like rapes happening. And she's like encouraging it like, well, there's no power over you kind of a thing. And I was just like, oh my God, this is dark. You know, like especially coming from like women.

Starting point is 00:48:26 Like it just seems so like so much worse. But anyways, I was like I didn't. It's always a man at the top. I was like, this is surprising to me. If you're ever in a spiritual group. Yeah, what is a percentage of female cult leaders? It's got to be very small. Very, very small.

Starting point is 00:48:42 Right? It's always dudes. I mean, I was like, I mean, I was like taking notes on the technique. Hey, I mean, I know data guy over here And a study guy knows this. What's the, what is the person? What is it?

Starting point is 00:48:59 You got it? They don't have an exact number here. What? But much less common than male. They don't give me a percentage. Okay. I asked for a percentage and they did not give me one. You, uh, what,

Starting point is 00:49:10 What is... What Justin said. I had heard this before. I don't know the number. But there is a high percentage of women that have actually never really orgasm from sex. Yes, you do. I don't know that.

Starting point is 00:49:25 You're looking up every other stat, but that? I've never looked up against that. I don't know. He's playing dumb right now. He's trying to stay out of trouble right now. No. What his life? I have no idea.

Starting point is 00:49:36 I've never looked that up. It could be 17.7%. I know I'm batting 97. What is that? Stupid. What is that? What percentage of women have never, never orgasm? Let's look at it.

Starting point is 00:49:48 Like, Doug loves the searches. Yeah, that's a search history. Great history going on here. If you're in a spiritual movement and involve sex, it's always a cult. I feel like that's 100% of time. I mean, that's like a dead giveaway. That's a dead giveaway. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:50:01 You're like, oh my god, honey, this is a great. You just have to sleep with the leader. Everybody's so nice here, you know, on the first day. Everybody give each other blowjob. There's nothing about family or anything else like, you know, Anything else, like, relationship-wise? I don't know if this is correct or not. It says 10 to 15% have never experienced an orgasm.

Starting point is 00:50:16 However, higher percentages up to 50% report difficulty. Do you guys want to hear something crazy? Is it a line with this or something? No, I just remember something. Okay. I'll be careful how I talk, because I'm going to reveal who this was. But somebody I knew. Doug.

Starting point is 00:50:34 Adam, come on. Adam is supposed to be anonymous. It's a safe place. So go ahead, go to it. We'll say his name is Jug. No, no, somebody I knew a while ago, a guy. Okay. He had an issue.

Starting point is 00:50:49 He was a friend of mine. He had an issue where when he would orgasm, he didn't feel anything. Like it would get up to the point, then he would orgasm, and it just became a physical thing, and he felt nothing. So it caused issues. He had issues in his marriage. All this stuff happened. He hired a, I don't know what they call a sex therapist or expert. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:51:09 And she, I'm not making this up. This was a real therapist. Okay. She would. She would, she would, yeah, she would through therapy and then through manual stimulation, get him to orgasm and slowly would help him, like, feel. Was there some sort of, obviously, trauma attached to that when he was young? No.

Starting point is 00:51:30 Oh, really? He's like, I would talk, because we were friends. Yeah, yeah. So I don't want to say too much. He's in a relationship with somebody else? He was married and going through divorce. And, you know, we would talk about that. this and, uh, because we're, and no trauma attached to it. No, I asked so. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:51:44 bro, because I feel like that's kind of a common thing. You're right. Yeah. Like if you have no, they said that he, she said that they think there was some kind of disconnect, uh, in his brain or the, or the brain, uh, yeah. Interesting. But the crazy part to me was he had an actual legit licensed therapist that helps you. That would give them. Yeah. Yeah. That would give him. Yeah. That would, like, I mean, that was expensive therapy? I'm like, and I remember I would talk to him. I'm like, bro, is it a therapist? Are you going to the, yeah. Is this the same way? The massage parlor Are you mean? Dolphins?

Starting point is 00:52:09 Yeah. And he's like, no, she's a, she's like a PhD. Like, this is what she does? Like, how's illegal? You're not watching Landman, are you? No. That's good. The, the, the scene where he, so in Landman, so, uh, what's the, what's the old man

Starting point is 00:52:21 in real life? What's his name? Sam. Sam Elliott. Elliot. Sam Elliott, who's like, I think he's late 70s or 80s now. He's an actress. Old cowboy.

Starting point is 00:52:28 Yeah. Real old cow. Like, barely moving around. So of that. And Billy Bob Thornton is his son. And they have like this bitter, you know, relationship. and, like, like, And his dad's stubborn and his old man.

Starting point is 00:52:41 So he goes, one of the scenes is he shows up to a strip club and he comes over and he basically hires a stripper to go be a physical therapist for his dad in the pool. And she's like not wanting to do it. And he just keeps putting another $100 bill until he finds her price of like what. And he's like, listen, he's harmless. He ain't can do anything like. And so. Just to get him to do.

Starting point is 00:52:59 Yeah. Yeah. And he goes, he goes, I know my dad. He won't say no to a pretty face. You know what I'm saying? So just go there. And she's like, listen, I'm not signing off. I don't know what I'm doing this and that.

Starting point is 00:53:07 And so like the next cut of the scene is just this. Dad's floating in the pool like this, and she's just, she's in her little brawn and underwear, and she's just, like, swaying him back and forth. You get this big grin on his face. And she tells him later on, like, the episodes down the road, she's like, you do know that I'm not a physical therapist, right? This is the show you guys keep talking about. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:30 Yeah, that's good. It's called Landman. It's on Paramount Plus? Yeah. Yeah, Paramount Plus. We'll check it out. Butcher Box delivers high-quality proteins, meats to your door. They have premium meats, 100% grass-fed beef, free-range organic chicken, pork-raised, crate-free, wild-caught seafood, good prices.

Starting point is 00:53:52 They deliver it to your door every single month. So you get the protein, you get the healthy stuff that you want, good sources of meat. Again, great prices. And if you go through our link, you'll get some free stuff. Go to butcherbox.com forward slash mind pump. If you're a new user, you'll get your choice between organic ground beef, chicken breast, or ground turkey included in your box for free for an entire year. Back to the show. Our first caller is Elia from Maryland.

Starting point is 00:54:21 Elia, what's happening? How are you? What's going on? Hey, guys. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. How can we help you?

Starting point is 00:54:27 So first, I just wanted to say I'm really honored to be on the podcast. And I really, really thank you guys. You guys are really, really good role models on how to be a high quality. quality, valuable man, and I really learned a lot from you guys. I found you guys out a couple months ago. I really appreciate all that you guys do. So I want to say that first. Thanks, man.

Starting point is 00:54:44 Thank you. Really, really means a lot. Yeah, for sure. So I'm sure you guys can relate to this. It is difficult for me to just kind of sit around and not do anything. So I have been speaking to a lot of people, a lot of mentors, about what to do with my question. So I have found an answer. I just really wanted to hear what you guys think, because I really, really,

Starting point is 00:55:06 respect you guys and you guys are like you know my role models i really wanted to hear what you think yeah and if it's the right decision okay so i'll just tell you my question it's kind of long so i'll say it as uh as quickly as i can so a couple months ago um i just finished the the military he's got the military and i just did my i just got certified from nesm as a personal trainer so i went to my local gym and it's probably it's the best gym in the area in my opinion it's very big They have clients coming all the time. They have the best trainers. It's a great work environment.

Starting point is 00:55:40 And I spoke to the manager about working there. And he told me that he's going to get to my application. He just has, he's going in order of applicants based off of experience. Okay. So it's going to take him time to get to mine. And it's been a couple weeks and he still hasn't gotten back to me. And I spoke with one of the trainers there who has, who's been the longest and he's one of my mentors. and he told me that every

Starting point is 00:56:07 manager has a different thing that they're looking for, right? And he said this guy is looking for marketing experience, which I have none of, because I've never really had like a real job besides for the military, right? So I don't have any like experience to show him that I can sell. So I don't think he's going to reach out to me, which is okay, I totally understand where he's coming from.

Starting point is 00:56:31 So I asked the trainer like, what should I do, right? I don't know what to do. he told me that my options, so what I could do is I could look for some kind of job where you sell, right? Like in retail or selling cars or something like that.

Starting point is 00:56:44 Or I could work for the gym, selling memberships. But another issue with that is you also need a sales experience for that. So the other options would be to work for like a smaller gym or just something like that, another gym. And I've spoken with a lot of other trainers

Starting point is 00:57:00 that I've known from these other gyms and it's not the best experience. It is an option, though. I spoke in with a lot of people on what to do, and they always ask me, like, what is my end goal, right? Like, what do I want to? Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

Starting point is 00:57:15 Hell yeah. Yeah, guys. Hey, you're overthinking this right now. Literally, all you need to do is you have to close him in your interview. And what that looks like if I'm you is, hey, I don't have any experience in personal training or sales. But I'm coming straight from the military. I've got serious discipline.

Starting point is 00:57:33 And I'm the type of person that if you teach me, you show me, or you point me in the right direction, I'm going to figure the job out. And I promise you by the end of this year, I'll be one of your top trainers. Right there. That's all you got to say. You feel like exactly. And let me tell you, you'll jump to the top of that list real quick. Yeah, you have the same. That's, I almost cut them off myself, Adam, because I can feel the same.

Starting point is 00:57:52 Well, yeah. So here's a deal. How bad do you want to work as a trainer? We got to start there first. Is that what you want to do? Well, can you say one thing? I kind of went a little bit different direction. Sure.

Starting point is 00:58:02 go ahead tell us I'm starting my own business as a trainer I know it's just the beginning I have lots of years of training other people I wasn't certified but I've been training people for years now so I've spoken with other people and I have a couple people that are going to help me

Starting point is 00:58:19 yeah I don't know is that a bad idea yes what do you guys think about? That's a terrible idea because here's the hardest part about personal training it's not personal training It's sales and business. So what you just did was you added sales and business

Starting point is 00:58:34 and building a business with being a personal trainer. This is why we always push people to go to a big box gym. The only reason why this guy is overlooking you right now has got nothing to do with certifications. It's that in that interview, you didn't close him on why you should have hired me. You got to be persistent. I don't give a shit about somebody having four or five years sales experience.

Starting point is 00:58:57 If the young man sitting across from me, convinces me that whatever, wherever direction I point him or tell him to go, he's going to do and figure it out. And within a year's time, I'm going to be one of your top guys. I'm sold, bro. Oh, yeah. We used to hire people all the time. And if you came to me, and I'll tell you a personal story, okay, but if you came to me once and you said, hey, I want to be a trainer here. And I'm like, okay, I'm going based off experience.

Starting point is 00:59:23 You're like, cool, I'll fill out an application. And then you leave, like, see you later. Now, if you came into the gym every day and you talk to me about it, I'll make, listen, I'll do this. I'll make it happen. Listen, tell me to do anything. I'll make, eventually be like, I like this kid. That's exactly what I want. So we're telling you the buttons to push.

Starting point is 00:59:40 But the reason why I'm saying this is I'm asking you how bad you want to be a trainer because if you want this badly, we'll get you hired. If you don't go do something else. Because if you get hired and it's not what you want to do, then you'll fail. And I don't want to set you up for that. But it sounds like this is what you want to do. So I'm going to tell you a personal story. I'm going to tell you a personal story from the best salesperson I ever hired in my entire life, probably the best salesperson I ever worked with in my entire life.

Starting point is 01:00:04 This is my friend Larry Evans, late Larry Evans, and I'll tell you the story because it's exactly, I think it's really going to help you. So Larry went and applied. So this is back when I managed 24 Fitness, when I managed the one on Hillsdale, Adam. And Larry went to another location, because there's a lot of locations. So he went to another large location on Capitol McKee. he introduced himself and they blew him off. So he went in, hey, I want to work here. I want to do sales.

Starting point is 01:00:32 Like, well, I don't know. We'll see. I don't want to. And so Larry, being Larry, persistent, comes to Hillsdale, my location. He introduces himself and he tells me he wants to work for me. Now, I can see something in him because he's kind of persistent. Like he's coming up to me, the manager, and he's persistent. But I'm also looking at this guy, and he's wearing long basketball shorts.

Starting point is 01:00:53 He's got this long jersey on. and so I'm like, hey man, listen, come back like you actually want the job and then we'll talk. And that really was a test. Let's see how bad you want this. So he came back the next day looking his best. He had a buttoned up shirt, tucked in. You can tell he didn't have a lot of money. So he had kind of these big slacks on.

Starting point is 01:01:10 But he showed up again like he wanted to really work there. And he talked to me. And I said, huh, I think I like this guy. And you know what happened? He came in the next day. He did the same thing. And I hired him. Larry ended up being, and it was that attitude.

Starting point is 01:01:25 is what it was. He ended up being the best salesperson I've ever worked with. Nobody's ever come close. In fact, he was the only one that ever... He still holds records in the company. He was the only guy that ever broke my record. Can I ask?

Starting point is 01:01:35 What did he tell you? What did he ask? It was his persistence. He didn't say anything magical. It was literally like, I'll do whatever you tell me. I'll do whatever it takes. I want to work here. I'll make it happen.

Starting point is 01:01:46 You tell me, I'll do it. I'll learn. I'll learn whatever you tell me. I'll show up. I'll work whatever hours. And so I'm like, done. What is, what's the most value you got from being in the military? Tell me.

Starting point is 01:01:56 Definitely like that discipline, not to give up on. So, brother, that's it. Go break his loss. Don't try and regurgitate what Sal said. Like, that's you. Go in and tell them, listen, I don't have a lot of experiences trainer. I just barely got my national certification. I don't have any experience in sales.

Starting point is 01:02:13 I'll do whatever you. Let me tell you what I have done the last few years and what kind of man that's made me in to be and who I will be working for you. And be honest, who you want? what you got from the military and how you're going to apply those skills that you learn in the military into being one of the best personal trainers. Bro, I'm not letting you walk out that door. No way.

Starting point is 01:02:33 No way. If he's a good manager. No, I don't care if you didn't have your NASM. I would be like, okay, next test is go get your NASM. And then if you went and didn't come back, I'm like, this kid's for sure getting a job. Yeah, yeah. And if that doesn't work, breaking balls. I mean, literally, go in the gym, work out every time you see him, hey, man, I want to work here,

Starting point is 01:02:50 hire me. Like, what do I got to do? What do I got to show you? what can I do to prove to you that I'm going to do a good job? And then whatever he tells you, go do it. All right, go fly her up a parking lot. Done. Go talk to some members.

Starting point is 01:03:01 Done. When a manager tells somebody the thing he told you, that's my easy way of letting you down that I don't. Yeah, it's me brushing you off. Like, every gym is looking for the next best trainer. Even when I'm not hiring, I'm hiring. I'm not hiring right now, but I'm looking for somebody who's better than my top guy.

Starting point is 01:03:20 And there's no way I let a guy walk in front of me who I go, that kid could be, that could be one of my top guys. I'll find room for you. It's character. Yeah, that's what he's. They can mold you. And so he's giving you some bullshit thing to brush you off. And it's because of how you, however you came at him. But don't, don't try and say something over the top. And it's not, be honest. I know you got skills from being in the military. And tell me how those skills are going to translate into you being one of the best trainers here. That's it. That's in your words. That's what you got to say. And then, and then ask him, what do you want me to do? And be persistent. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:53 Show up again. Show up again. And you'll get the most from working in a big box gym around 10, 20 other trainers that are all, you said the top guy there's your mentor, right? Yeah, he's really smart. Bro, I mean, you want to work next to that. You want to work next to him. Now you get to work next to him.

Starting point is 01:04:09 And I bet you if you tell him what I'm telling you right now, he'd be like, yeah, you'd probably, you'd probably get the job. Okay, I kind of knew that. It's not hearing it from you guys. Okay, that does sound like the right idea. It is. It is, dude. My goal in the future is to be like you guys have my own business.

Starting point is 01:04:26 This is the right path for that. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, start there. You're looking at... You'll grow into that. Trust me. Trust me.

Starting point is 01:04:32 Go get hired at that gym and then step, that's step one. Step two is be the top trainer in that gym. That's right. Crush it in that environment. For a year or two. Step four, start your own business. And you know, it's awesome is your mentor is the top guy already. So you have direct access.

Starting point is 01:04:48 That's the next best level. It would be working next to him every day and watching his behaviors. That's right. seeing what he does, picking his brain, that's going to get you. And then then those skills, if you prove that you can do all those things and be one and two with that guy, that then you have the, like I believe your mentor could probably leave that gym and go start his own business. But all the 11 trainers underneath them, I bet you, I bet against them. Rarely, it's all, it's very difficult.

Starting point is 01:05:14 20% of people are successful in entrepreneurship, okay? 80% fail. So if there's 10 trainers there, that means there's only two of them that have that possibility. even making it happen. Okay? So you better be one and two if you're even going to give yourself a fighting chance. But what do most trainers do? They try it for a little while.

Starting point is 01:05:32 They're not getting paid. They see the numbers on, oh, my God, I only get paid $30 an hour. And we're charging these people 70. I just go take my three clients that tell me they love me. And then they don't realize, oh, shit, I got those clients from this gym. How would I go do that on my own? And they have no client. Or they know one or two people.

Starting point is 01:05:49 And then what happens when your book turns over? It's like you have no, you have no skills. to go build a business. That's what you're learning. It's education time for you when you work at this big gym. It's to learn how that gym operates, how it got to be a multi-million dollar facility

Starting point is 01:06:02 and how that trainer became a top trainer. Then you go build your business. Hell yeah. How do you feel right now? Yeah. You feel psyched? I do, yeah. Hang up the phone and go to the gym.

Starting point is 01:06:10 Yeah, yeah. Go talk to right now. Get over. That's fine. Tell what time it is. I'd love to hear back from you, okay? Email us. Tell us what happened.

Starting point is 01:06:16 Once you get hired, send a message back to us. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, of course. Thanks, guys. You got it, dude. You guys are super awesome.

Starting point is 01:06:22 I really appreciate it. I really appreciate everything you guys do. Thank you so much. All right, brother. Go do it. It's cracking me up because, hey, that's how I hired. That's how I got hired. That's how I become a general manager.

Starting point is 01:06:32 Yeah, I know. I was an 18 year old kid. I literally walked, I got my birthday. You couldn't be a trainer unless you were 18. I knocked on the door. I thought, this manager must be in this room. Sean, I still know, Sean, opens the door, shook his hand. I said, I want to be a trainer here.

Starting point is 01:06:46 He's like, oh, do you have any? I said, no, I'm not certified. I don't have any experience. You gotta have that kind of energy, man. Dude, I literally said to him everything that he's, and then Sean hired me. And then when I wanted to become a general manager, I talked to Mark Master Office.

Starting point is 01:06:56 This is like the godfather of fitness. And I sat him down and I said to him, I'm the top GM right now making me a general manager. And he's like, okay, call him down, sell, you're 19 years old. I don't know. I said, what do I got to do? Yeah. I said, I'll be the top guy every month.

Starting point is 01:07:07 And that's what I did every month. And I literally sent, I called him and left him a voice message. This month I'm number one, make me a gem. And he gave me his worst club. And I said, thank you. And if you have that attitude, a good manager is you're going to be irresistible. I don't think this is independent of personal training. No.

Starting point is 01:07:26 I think if things changed, personal training didn't exist and my love, passion for all this, and I had to go do something else. Same attitude. Electrician. I don't care. Name the thing. Yeah. And the guy who's sitting or the girl who's sitting across the desk for me, this is what I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:07:43 That's right. I have no experience. I don't know. I have no idea what you do. but I know I want to do this and I know if you teach me or point me in the direction I'll do it. What do you want me to do to show you

Starting point is 01:07:53 that I'll be one of your best guys? And then whatever they tell you, do it. That's it literally it. Hung and eat and learn and do it quickly. And then go do the thing, right? By the way, we're telling everybody how to be a trainer for mind pump too. It ain't easy because we're going to tell you to do some stuff.

Starting point is 01:08:04 You still got to do it. But if you do it, get educated. Well, I mean, look at the staff, most of the staff has been hired like this. We did not hire. We don't have the most experienced. Yeah, yeah. That's right.

Starting point is 01:08:13 Our next caller is Shelby from Nebraska. Hi, Shelby. Hi, how are you guys? We're good. How are you doing? I'm good. Thank you guys for having me on. I really appreciate it. Of course. How can we help you? Okay. I'm 32 years old and have been lifting consistently since I was 18. I'm also a mom to three little ones, ages two, four, and five.

Starting point is 01:08:35 Back in 2015, I competed in bikini competitions and unfortunately experienced all the classic side effects that came with it. hair loss, lost the menstrual cycle, digestive issues, and more. Around that same time, my husband and I had just opened our own business, so stress levels were high. Fast forward to September of 23, I had healed, had three kins under three, and wanted to feel like myself again. When my youngest was seven months old, I decided against my better judgment to do 75 hard. I finally felt like my old self again, so I didn't stop after the 75 days. Afterwards, I reversed dieted excruciating slow and continue to lose weight, dropping from 142 pounds and 32% body fat to 123 pounds and 18% body fat over five months, eating as low as 1,600 calories. I thought it would be different

Starting point is 01:09:25 this time since I was getting competition lean, but since I wasn't getting competition lean, but the same symptoms came back, hair loss, loss of cycle, digestive problems. During that time, I also went through another major life change and to top it off, I did the MRF, which completely wiped me out. I tried to push through with muscle mommy, but only made it halfway before my body said no more. Thanks to your show and Adam series, I finally had the confidence to take a full break from working out for five months. Then I moved into Maps 15, doing about one week of workouts every two weeks, and now months later, I'm easing into anabolic still going light. It's been almost two years since 75 hard, and I'm still dealing

Starting point is 01:10:06 with symptoms. Anytime I lift even slightly heavier, my jaw tightens and I occasionally struggle with sleep. I'm currently eating around 1,900 calories, about 130 grams of protein, and estimating the rest since tracking gets too obsessive for me. I have SIBO and sensitive digestive, so it's tough to eat much higher without things flaring up. I'm sitting at about 23% body fat right now. I probably feel best around 21%, but that's splitting hairs. My question is this. My body seems extremely sensitive to stress. Is it truly possible to recover from this again and eventually be able to push myself without crashing? How do I know when it's appropriate to start increasing intensity? Every time I start to feel good and push a little harder, I end up taking

Starting point is 01:10:50 two steps back. And by pushing, I just mean heavier weights, not extreme cross-fed or not seven days a week either. And last question, are these symptoms purely from stress or do some women simply just not do well at lower body fat levels. I love to eventually maintain around 20 to 21 since it feels healthy to me, but I don't want to force my body if I can't handle it. Good question, Shelby. And great job. You've done it.

Starting point is 01:11:14 You've done a lot. You've come through a lot. Let me ask you this. How hard is it to be a mom with three little kids? It's hard. It's a lot, yeah? Yes. Yes, a lot.

Starting point is 01:11:23 Yeah. So you said you wanted to feel like your old self. Yes. Your old self didn't have kids. Right. Your old self maybe wasn't married, didn't have the business and all that stuff. Your old self is your old self. This is a new you.

Starting point is 01:11:38 And you're in a season right now. By the way, you're not sensitive to stress. You have a lot of stuff going on. Yeah, yeah. So it's not like you're some like weak person that just can't handle stress or whatever. You're handling a lot. You got three little kids by itself. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:11:53 That's a ton. And a business? That's a ton. Yeah, yeah. You're doing a lot. So, I mean, it's going to take a long time. Yeah, that's fair. It's just going to take a long time.

Starting point is 01:12:04 And what it's going to look like, you're in a season right now of prioritizing other things. By the way, maintaining 23% body fat, I'm looking at you, look good. You're kicking, you're kicking butt. You know how many moms of three kids would look at you and be like, how does she do it? So you're doing really good, hon.

Starting point is 01:12:22 You just, you can't compare yourself to a time when you had 99% less things going on in your life. That's fair. That's fair. So what would be appropriate for me right now then? Mass 15. I like math 15. And reverse diet.

Starting point is 01:12:39 Yeah. You got to eat more. You're on that. Yeah. Just keep doing that. And this is a season. So if you plan on exercising for the rest of your life, there will be other seasons where you're like, man, I got more time on my hands.

Starting point is 01:12:51 Kids are going to school. Like, you know, now I can. focus on these other things. And that'll come. That'll happen. And in the big picture, this is a short season. It just feels long because you're in it.

Starting point is 01:13:04 You're in the middle of it. But I would stick just MAPS 15, reverse diet. Your calories should probably slowly go up. Let's get you around 24, 2,500 calories. And just do that and just stay there for a long time. Yeah, just focus on being healthy right now.

Starting point is 01:13:20 That in itself is hard for most people. And you're doing a great job. You've done a great job. How old are your kids right now? Two, four, and five. It's probably going to be when your youngest is five. You're in the eye of the storm right now. I know.

Starting point is 01:13:35 So, okay. So you know, okay. The other side gets way easier. So you got a range of kids, right? So how old is your oldest? Five. Okay. Right around five, things get a little easier with your kid, right?

Starting point is 01:13:45 Yeah. Okay. So the youngest is two. So when the youngest probably gets to five, then things are going to probably change. You probably have a few years. MAPS 15 style workouts, taking care of myself, being healthy, being a mom, focusing on my marriage and keeping everything going and just feeling good. And then when the little one gets to that age, then you're probably going to have more space.

Starting point is 01:14:10 But don't push things. That appropriate does to match the stress. That's your desired outcome. What's crazy, too, since we're only talking about 1 to 2% here, there's a very good likelihood that if you just take this advice. You might actually get leaner through reverse dieting. Yeah, and you just focus on getting strong and math's 15 and slowly reverse dieting and getting healthy. There's a really good chance that one to two percent body fat comes off during this process.

Starting point is 01:14:38 That makes sense. Of focusing like that versus having this like, okay, I feel pretty good for long enough. Let me ramp it up so I can get there. Then because then you'll just spiral out again. And then you'll be back to square one. So take this season as an opportunity. of other things are a higher priority. Still take care of your health.

Starting point is 01:14:56 Still get your workouts in. Maps 15 is perfect for you. Three little kids is a chaos, too. That is like a business. That is crazy, too. That is chaos, man. You don't think that's so stress on your body. It's a lot, dude.

Starting point is 01:15:08 That's more than when you were training for bikini. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's probably true. Honestly, when I go to work, I feel less stressed. Yeah, dude. You get a little break. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:17 Yeah, just give it some time, hon. Just give us some time. When I, so I'm at 1900 calories right now. Now, anytime I increase a little bit, my digestion system just completely goods out of whack. Yeah. So you might need to treat yourself for SIBO. You might need to do some gut healing. And a reverse diet could be as slow as an acting, adding 50 calories.

Starting point is 01:15:40 Have you treated the SIBO yet? I have. And it's gotten a lot better, a lot better. I'm still working on it, but I have treated it. Here's what probably happens. And then correct me if I'm wrong. you start to feel better, you start to feel some energy, and then you push it, and then it gets bad again.

Starting point is 01:15:58 And so when you treat SIBO and SIBO is gone, you still need to heal your gut. Sure. So there's still a period of time that you need to heal your gut. Also, when you start to feel good, that's not because it's time to push it. That means, oh, now let me feel good for a while before I even think about pushing it.

Starting point is 01:16:18 What you don't want to do is stand waiting for the slightest green light, which is probably what you're doing. Like, oh, I think I'm good. Let's go. And then you just set yourself back again. Okay. So just take your time.

Starting point is 01:16:31 You're doing great. Just take your time. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for the reassurance. Yeah, you got it. You ever work with a coach?

Starting point is 01:16:38 Um, I have in the past. Do you think that would help you? Because it might help you to work with somebody that can, like, walk you through this process. Yeah, I mean, it probably would. All right. I'll have somebody call you show. I have a couple people in mind that I think could help. help you through this process. Okay. I like to get my own way. Yeah. Yeah. Did I get it?

Starting point is 01:16:57 That's good self-awareness. Yeah. That's good self-awareness. Good for you too. And I love, I love seeing young people with a lot of kids. We need more. We need more people like that's great. They're fun, even though they're stressful. Yeah. No worry. On the other side of five, it's going to get so much better for sure. Unless you have a fourth one. You might have another one. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, thanks for calling and shout. I'll have somebody call you, okay? Okay, thank you guys. I really appreciate it. You got it. You know, I love callers like that because you could see as she's talking and then I just kind of say it back to her.

Starting point is 01:17:29 She's like, oh, yeah. Yeah, I think I'm doing all right. Because a lot of how many moms would want to be like that with three little kids? Bro, three kids and a business. Yeah. Yeah. That's like another kid or two. Yeah. Yeah. And they're in the ages of two to five is like you're in the fight right there. Oh. It's five. I know because I have a five-year-old. He can do things on his own now finally. Yes. It's north of five where I feel like.

Starting point is 01:17:54 Once Max got to like five and a half, six and then where we're heading into seven. Yeah. So much easier. Until they become teenage. Well, it's funny. We always go back and point back to when we felt the best. And you're so right with that. It's like, dude, let's look in the future.

Starting point is 01:18:07 What does my future self look like? Well, listen. I know that I know that because obviously people that have older kids, a lot of times get defensive. It never gets easier. It's not like it's a different heart. It's just different. And that, that, that, that, At that age, you have full attention on them 24-7.

Starting point is 01:18:24 That's right. So it's a different type of stress. Like, now you guys have to worry about kids driving and it's a different type of stuff. That's all day long. You're right. It's different because with teenagers, what stress can look like are short extreme bouts of stress. But you're not all day long. And it's not this like constant dependency.

Starting point is 01:18:41 They're not disrupting your sleep every night. They're not needing to be fed every season. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different kind of hard. and it's not the right kind of hard to be doing 75 hard. It just doesn't go together. You can actually recover, but you got to wait for that.

Starting point is 01:18:56 Our next caller is Brianna from Arizona. Hi, Brianna. How you doing? Hello, this is very crazy. I know everybody says that, but this is so crazy. I just want to start off by saying, I'm very honored. I appreciate you guys this time. I know it's very valuable, and I really appreciate you guys answering my question today.

Starting point is 01:19:13 So I'm going to read it because obviously I'm very nervous. It says, Dear Mind Pump, I'm lost. sure and I need help. So here's my question. How do I know when I've tipped the scales on stress and I need to pull back? For context, I am a 26 year old new mom of a four-month-old and I am constantly second-guessing my training volume and my macros. I'll listen to you guys for about three, four years. I have my personal trainer certificate, so I have a lot of information and a lot of knowledge, but obviously when it comes to training your I second guess that quite a bit.

Starting point is 01:19:52 So I've been training consistently for three years and then last year, so four years altogether. And then last year I went through some fertility treatments and got pregnant. And then had a very successful pregnancy. And then up till about 33 weeks. And then I was diagnosed very suddenly with preclampsia, had my baby like a week later, and was in the hospital for a little bit. I didn't handle it very well.

Starting point is 01:20:18 had a lot of just stuff happened physically after that and then obviously we had a NICU stay. So I say all that to say that I have recovered pretty well, but I'm not sure if I'm pushing my body too much. I did six weeks of pelvic floor therapy and then I went into performance and now I'm running a pretty modified version of aesthetic. I stay at home with my baby so I have the time, but I never hear you guys recommend aesthetic to anyone. I reversed dieted up to 2,400 calories, and I dropped back down to about 2000, just for a couple weeks. I was starting to get to the point where I was just eating whatever to make those calories, and I don't want to do that. So I'm just not sure where to go, and I want to be the best version of myself, so I can show up for my son. I do want to teach him healthy habits and that his mom is strong.

Starting point is 01:21:13 I found you guys from listening to John Deloney about three years ago, and I started with Maps 15, and I was hooked. So I very much value your advice and I'm very grateful that you've had me on today. You guys have truly changed my life for the better. So I'm happy to hear anything you, I guess, have to say for me. So by modified maps aesthetic, do you mean you do half of the volume that's in there? Probably about half. So he's pretty clingy as far as my baby is.

Starting point is 01:21:40 So I drop a lot of the shoulder and armworks, arm workouts. So I probably only do a save like today, for instance. I'm in phase two, day two, called for like four sets. I did one set. So I do the main, I do all the sets for like the main lift. And then I pretty much drop everything else. So it usually takes me about an hour, sometimes an hour and a half, just depending on. But that's kind of where my training looks like right now.

Starting point is 01:22:10 How's the baby healthy? He's doing really good. So, yeah, we've recovered very well and doing. I'm doing really good. So I'm very, very grateful for that. And, you know, and that's just kind of my point is I don't want to do too much. And I definitely can be a person who pushes because that's what I feel like I'm supposed to do. And so that's really why I wanted to come on today and just to get some expert advice on that. Well, I'm so happy you called in, and I really appreciate this question a lot. This is going to help a lot of people. First off, what you went through,

Starting point is 01:22:45 is very traumatic. So, and a lot of moms don't hear this often. But when you go through a difficult delivery, especially staying in the hospital, that is a very challenging time, physically and emotionally, extremely. So there's a lot of, it's different. And that wasn't that long ago.

Starting point is 01:23:04 It was only four months ago. The fitness industry has also done, well, the fitness industry in general has done women a terrible disservice. It has really done a terrible disservice to, post-partum women. It has sold this idea that you have a baby and then you're back in shape, you know,

Starting point is 01:23:23 four months later. I've trained a lot of women post-partum. A lot of women, both before, during, and after pregnancy, quite a few. And in my experience, on average, okay, on average, it takes a woman about one to two years after having a baby to feel like, for lack of a better term, like their old self. One to two years. So everything else you've heard is a lie. It's a total lie.

Starting point is 01:23:53 And the people that make me the most upset about this are the fake fitness influencers who love to post their bodies. Oh, I had a baby three months ago. Look at me. You don't hear the whole story. It's not like it takes a while. half of the volume of aesthetic is too much for you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:13 I guarantee you. I guarantee that it's too much for you. Mass 15. You should have stayed at Mass 15 is where you're. You're MAPS 15 for the next until your baby's a year old. Okay. I do have MAPS 15. I do have,

Starting point is 01:24:25 I have a lot of programs. I kind of figured that's probably what you guys would say, but I really just need to hear it. Obviously, it's like, you know, you feel good, so you want to do more. You'll feel better. You know, I hear people come. on all the time and say that and hear you guys advice. But it really is hard, you know, to combat in your own minds. And I don't have a, I don't have a big community. I don't have other,

Starting point is 01:24:48 like your y'all's podcast is my fitness community, honestly. So don't have other people around me to, you know, kind of check that for me. And so I, yeah, I do. I think, I figured Matt 15 is probably what you would say. If this makes you feel better, you know, you know, my wife very fit, before she had our kids. I know Katrina very fit. Both of them struggled with this as well. Like, oh, let me do this. No, no, no, no.

Starting point is 01:25:15 You're starting. It's a lot less than you think. Yeah. And you'll feel better, Brianna. If you'll feel better following Mass 15. And we have a lot of Maps 15 programs. I'd love to send you one you don't have. So you have the original one.

Starting point is 01:25:29 Do you have any of the other Maps 15 version? I don't have any of the other ones. I know you guys just came out with Muscle Mommy and Power Lift. And I do have both of those original. programs. I haven't run them to their entirety, but I do have both of those. So I'm not really sure which one I would either do. I have it. Thank you, Adam. I have a soft spot for new moms. So we usually give people one program. I'll give you both. Yeah. So you can follow one right after another. So you'll get 15 muscle mommy and then 15 power lift. I'd like to also put you in the private forum if you're not

Starting point is 01:26:02 already in there since you brought up. Okay. So I'm going to. I'm not. Thank you. I don't. Thank you. I don't. I don't mean to get emotional, but... You're doing a good job, hon. You're doing a really, really good job. Don't question your efforts. You're doing a great job. You just work with your body, not against it. It's going to take about a year for you to scale things up.

Starting point is 01:26:24 But in this year, it's going to feel so good doing the right stuff. And right now, you're really resilient. You're probably questioning how tough you are and all that stuff. Half the volume of aesthetic four months out, like you're tough. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but don't push it. Don't push that toughness. You're not going to.

Starting point is 01:26:41 I don't want to. And I was kind of, you know, it's a, when you don't listen to, you know, you have a gut feeling. Most, you know, a lot of people do. And if you listen, if you can listen to your body, you know, you should listen to your body, obviously. And I probably haven't exactly because I very much battled with whether I should or shouldn't do aesthetic. And just decided, well, I'll try something hard. But I typically choose the hard thing in life. So here's what it would look like.

Starting point is 01:27:10 Okay, follow Maps 15. Go on a lot of walks with the baby. So that'll be your activity, which you're probably already doing. If you're not, it's great. It's great bonding time. It's great nap time. It's great activity. So 15 with lots of walks.

Starting point is 01:27:24 Diet-wise, I don't want you tracking anything, but I do want you to eat protein. I want you to track your protein and eat until you're satisfied. Stick to whole natural foods and don't track. Because if you track at this point, it's going to start messing with you. I can guarantee you that right now. it probably has i definitely um jumped right back into that train of and and and also knowing you know i needed to reverse diet and i'm glad that i did that um but my husband did ask me the other day he's like do you think you should probably be tracking your food i was like maybe not yeah no no just just

Starting point is 01:27:58 aim for protein eat whole natural foods eat when you're hungry that's right eat to you're satisfied go on a couple walks a day with the baby maps 15 give yourself things you're a year before you reassess. So not a year and then go for it. Like a year and then reassess. All right, how do I feel? Am I feeling good? After a year, it's not to MAPS aesthetic.

Starting point is 01:28:19 It's just something like MAPS anabolic. Okay. The forum's going to be great for you. The forum's got a lot of moms that have been listened to us for a long time. Yep. That similar feelings gone through similar stuff. So great community in there. So make sure you say hi, introduce yourself when Doug gets you access in there.

Starting point is 01:28:36 And then. And then bounce questions off people and other trainers and all of us that are in there. Yeah. I will. Thank you so much. Again, your podcast is my resource. And I so appreciate everything that you guys do. It means the world to me.

Starting point is 01:28:53 Thank you. You got it. And thanks for calling in. I know this helped a lot of other moms. Absolutely. Real quick, I just really wanted to brag on you guys. I don't want to just be easy in my thank you. You guys do a lot of hard work.

Starting point is 01:29:06 and I really appreciate it. And so watching your journey to Christ has been, and being bold in that, that's so difficult for a Christian to do is be outwardly bold. And it has encouraged me so much in my walk with the Lord, and I really appreciate that. And just in hearing about your boys and about you as a father and about kind of how you approach things,

Starting point is 01:29:28 just and observe has helped me a lot. I would like to have that approach with my son, would like to give him room to, try and just gently encourage him. And so I appreciate the stories that you share. And Adam, I was thinking today about the call, and I was thinking back to when your wife was in the hospital, and you all posted on your socials and asked for prayer,

Starting point is 01:29:49 and I was anxiously waiting to hear, you know, if she was okay or not. And I just, you bring so much fight to the table and encourage me to be bold and to say what I think. And I just, I really appreciate you guys so much. From the bottom of my heart, you have made my life so much better and I greatly appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:30:09 Thank you. Thank you so much. She going to cry now. I'm going to cry. You know, I got to say this, man. You know, we rail on the industry all the time, the media industry and what they sell. But man, they really mess up postpartum winning them. They make them believe that they're going to be back in shape.

Starting point is 01:30:29 Man, it takes a while. There's always that. You went through a radical chain. There's always that anomaly. That's why. There is. But I also believe a lot of them lie. There's a lot of them that post what they're in,

Starting point is 01:30:39 but they don't tell you they're suffering from postpartum anxiety, depression, that their body's not feeling the way it did and certain exercises. Or they were, they were orthorexic going into it. It's like, come on, dude. No, I know. It's, yeah, no, it's tough. It's a radical transformation in your body.

Starting point is 01:30:54 And then when you have the baby, it's not like your body's not radically transformed still. You know, there's lots of things that are happening and it's just not spoken to accurately. It takes a while. You got to give yourself some time. The community will serve. for it really well. So it's good having other people that have been there and been through

Starting point is 01:31:09 it. It was a good call for a long time. So she'll enjoy that. Our next call is Josh from Michigan. What's up, Josh? What's happening? How's it going guys? Thanks for having me here. Really appreciate your time. Kind of as always, like with everyone else, you know, really dig what you guys are doing and

Starting point is 01:31:25 I've been listening for a couple of years now. And I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask a question I had. I'll present my question and then give you all a little bit of context kind of behind that. In kind of reflecting back on yel's time with the podcast and kind of going back to its infancy, what are some things you wish you knew back kind of when you were initially getting it off the ground or what would you tell yourself in retrospect?

Starting point is 01:31:52 Kind of the context being here, I work in healthcare. I'm an emergency medicine resident doc at a large level one trauma center here in Michigan. In my approach to making sure I'm clinically ready to go each day is the way I sleep, the way I eat, the way I train is to make sure I'm there ready to rock and roll, you know, by the time my shift comes around. And I think I've been able to be fairly resilient kind of here up until that time. And I see a lot of my coworkers, you know, my nurses, techs, other residents. And maybe they may not be as resilient or I'm kind of seeing them kind of fade, you know, as they get into those later hours of their shift. And I find myself being, you know, ready, you know, come in, you know, give me another trauma, another medical

Starting point is 01:32:34 recess another critical patient. You know, I'm always thinking, you know, who's next, who's next? And so I think in addition to my clinical responsibilities, I would like to hopefully do something to not only be, you know, there to care for my patients, but also for my fellow like staff members too as well, kind of somewhere down the line. And I see the impact that you guys have had here in the fitness space and, you know, thought, you know, who better else to talk to about, you know, how to go about making an impact by way of a podcast. or something similar. Yeah. You trauma docs are really cut from a different cloth, I swear.

Starting point is 01:33:10 It's like you guys don't have enough on your plate. Every doctor I've ever trained who works in trauma is always adding things to the plate. So you want to start a podcast on top of treating people who are about to die. I've got really good advice for you that's related to what we were literally just talking about before you came on air.

Starting point is 01:33:27 So we had a small two-minute break before you came on. I was just updating the guys on one of our buddies higher up wellness is his podcast. If you don't, or this is his Instagram and his podcast. If you don't follow him, follow him. In fact,

Starting point is 01:33:40 look at his post he did just, I think, yesterday. And he spent, he spent some time with Gary V. Gary Vee's advice to him was to people in this position where you're at, overthink content.

Starting point is 01:33:52 Like how do I, like what content should I make and the title and the hook and all these things like that? And it's more about documenting. And so you already explained who you want to help out and who you want to impact.

Starting point is 01:34:02 And, And so as quick as you possibly can when you are in a moment where you taught something, you learned something, you went through something, you record it. Like it's literally like you just did some crazy shit, right, for four hours in trauma. You, you know, oh my God, that was the most. Walk out. As soon as you have a break, walk, grab your phone and then share and document what you just went through, what you just went, what you just learned, whatever the thing is.

Starting point is 01:34:28 So that you have taught, you have that documentation. So that's the first piece of content that. I can use on social. And then if I'm creating a podcast, I'm expanding on that. That's all that is is long form. So it's like I'm doing a short form of, oh, my God, what I felt, what I went through, what I learned real quick is as a thing is like almost like I'm denoting it, right? That what I just went through.

Starting point is 01:34:48 And then later on that night, when I'm inspired to create the podcast episode, I'm creating from that piece of content or that thing that I just learned or went through. And I'm expanding on it. And then that's where maybe a little more thought goes into process of, okay, how do I title this thing that other doctors or who I'm trying to attract, whether it be the patient, the doctor, or whoever, or, you know, other surgeons, whatever, I'm going to, I'm going to title it so it would interest them. And then I'm going to expand on it. And then through practice, you'll learn how to put that content together better and better. But that right there,

Starting point is 01:35:23 just doing that and lots of reps of that is what's going to, to grow the podcast, grow your content. And where most people fail is they make the mistake of thinking that you're going to create something that's going to go viral and overnight, you're going to have lots of, and most of them don't have the discipline to just keep doing that thing for a really long time for a year, two years, maybe three years. And then that compounds, you get better at it and start to learn the things. Like, that's the formula right there. But most people don't have the discipline to do it long. Now, I doubt you lack the discipline because you're, like Sal said, you guys are cut from a different cloth.

Starting point is 01:36:00 I'm sure you got this point. It's just understanding that's what it looks like. Don't overthink it. Don't make it over edit it. In fact, we're going into it. We're actually reversing trends right now. The trend was everybody shot all grainy and gritty at the beginning and rough and authentic. And then we got all these cool tools to edit and background and green screen.

Starting point is 01:36:22 And now we're going to AI. Now nobody trusts what they see because it's so well produced. So like our guys are having us shoot things with our phone again. and they're just like, hey, just talk into your phone because people want that. And so what a great time for a guy like you to try and create. So document, don't create content. I can't. There's nothing I can have.

Starting point is 01:36:40 You just know you're signing up for a long, long haul. Most people fail at this because they do it for three months, six months, and they quit. So you just say to yourself, I'm doing it. So in other words, okay, I'm going to do this for two years. What is a, what can I commit to on a week? basis for two years and then do that. And then don't expect anything out of it other than just being consistent. But it takes a while.

Starting point is 01:37:05 And just keep serving your community. The end of the day, you're just like, you're the voice for who your target audience is. And also, too, to bring in, you know, some of that feedback. So, you know, you'll find we'll get a lot of suggestions by putting it out there. And don't be afraid to put it out there with coworkers and get some feedback. You are coming from a position that I think, I don't want to say this is easy. but it's so interesting what you do. And every day is so unique.

Starting point is 01:37:33 It's probably a guillian story. There's, yeah. And so do not overthink this. Every step of your day, every conversation that you have with a peer, with a client, with a mentor, that is valuable content that you can document. And even if you can't document while it's happening, and this is what my buddy was talking about, was closing the gap on how quickly you make the content from that thing that happened.

Starting point is 01:37:56 So don't allow something that was, like, holy shit, that was crazy surgery. I can't believe this. And then you, oh, I'll record a podcast next Saturday on that. It's like, I need to get that out of my head right now, why it's fresh, why my emotions are still on it, why it's authentic, why my true feelings will come out. So as quickly as you can close the gap on the thing, whatever the thing was and create, or document something that versus what a lot of overthinking, the production and the hook

Starting point is 01:38:26 and the whole body work of it and the edit process. It's like, no, dude, just start giving value and doing it and turn it around quick and the practice and the rest. Yeah, they both said it what I was thinking. Storytelling is very powerful. So if I had to look back at what got us initial success or attention was a storytelling. We just had a lot of stories working in gyms. So you just tell lots of stories, be as authentic as possible. Oh, my God, this was stressful.

Starting point is 01:38:53 This sucked. This was great. I don't know what I'm doing here. you know, don't try to present yourself differently. Storytelling. And you got tons of stories. You probably have stories that happen every day. So, you know, there's your content right there.

Starting point is 01:39:06 Part of our superpower was the four of us knew we would suck. Knew this was a new venture to us, right? Yeah. And we knew that it's like we were all so determined that. And we knew that the formula was, just keep doing this. We'll figure it out along the way. If you look at where we're at 10 years and the TV screens and the stuff that we have for notes

Starting point is 01:39:28 and how we think about way different, but that's not what got us here. What got us here was that attitude of like, hey, we're going to be really bad at this. We don't know what the hell. We might as well practice. So let's just practice and practice and practice. And put out, we didn't overthink it.

Starting point is 01:39:41 We literally just, we would just go. We would turn the mics on and be like, let's talk about this stuff. And yeah, it was bad and it was rough and all those things. But it connected. But we, yeah, it is. It connected because we led from a place

Starting point is 01:39:52 of like you are, which is I want to give value to help my community. I want to do this. And so, and that resonated with a lot of people. And then over time, we built the skills.

Starting point is 01:40:01 Yep. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's really helpful. And I think kind of my goal is to come from a perspective of, you know, how,

Starting point is 01:40:08 how can we make ourselves healthier and address kind of our, like I address my clinical work like as a, from a competitive standpoint, you know, like I come from my, come more athletic background. And I kind of want to make sure I'm game ready. And game ready means, you know,

Starting point is 01:40:23 I'm working five, six days a week. You know, that's five, six days, you know, that I'm going out and competing. So how can I, you know, fuel myself and make sure I am squared away and ready to go for that clinical shift, you know, versus dreading going into work because I feel like crap or whatever it is, you know, I'm kind of addressing things from one. One warning, Josh. If you're doing this and you're being real and you're telling

Starting point is 01:40:45 stories and you're like, I'm getting after it, I'm doing it and whatever. And then you find yourself tired and it's not working, you share it. You don't present a false, a false, uh, because And then what will happen is you'll have to live up to that and it won't work. You tell them, oh, my God, I know I get after all the time. But, man, this week I am driving. I'm going to add one more thing to that, too. I don't even, so if I was mentoring you, I'd be like, don't even overthink that. What you think everybody wants from you may be totally off.

Starting point is 01:41:13 What you think everybody else wants to learn from you may be totally off from what you think you want to give to everybody. Let them tell you. Exactly. So document, your conversation, what you think might be meaningless, which is a conversation. with another doctor arguing over how we're going to go about this thing. Whatever. I have no idea what a day looks like in your life. I'm super interested, though.

Starting point is 01:41:33 And you document that. And that might pull me in. And for all you know, your whole thing might be all about communication between, you know, two different surgeons and how to work through. Like, I don't know. You don't know. And so don't try and pigeonhole yourself into a, this is what I want to give to everybody. They may not want.

Starting point is 01:41:51 This is what I teach trainers. A lot of times trainers come in. They're like, I want to train athletes. and like no one gives a shit about what you have to say about athletes. But they do happen to listen to you when you talk about joint pain. They're super interested in, you know what I'm saying? So don't even overcomplicate. I talk about fat loss all the time and that's it.

Starting point is 01:42:06 You know what I wanted to do that? Yeah, yeah. So go into sharing and documenting everything and anything that you learn, you experience, you go through and come from a place of giving value to anyone and everyone and then allow the content and the comments and the interaction to steer you in that direction. then and then maybe you start to formulate how does this look like a business how does you know what I'm saying like don't don't put the car before the horse just just document give value and who knows what you end up speaking to it may have nothing to do with what you think right now okay okay

Starting point is 01:42:41 very cool well thanks guys I really appreciate again your help your time here and everything you guys are doing out there look forward to the episodes all the time so I saw my on my way into work as I'm meal prepping as I'm coming home while I'm stretching getting ready to get a little lifting. It's good stuff. That's good, man. You're the man, Josh. Do it.

Starting point is 01:42:59 Yeah, yeah. Go save lives. Yeah, yeah. Keep us in a loop, though. I'd like to hear how it goes. Yes, sir, we'll do. Yeah, thanks, guys. Appreciate all your time.

Starting point is 01:43:08 Bro, I got to tell you, dude, I've trained so many trauma doctors. Yeah, like the guy's not busy. They're, bro, they're machines. Yeah. And they're machines until they're like, I was just talking to my buddy. I got a buddy who's, you know,

Starting point is 01:43:19 he's been doing this for, his body gives out on them. Yeah, and he's like, dude, he's like, I don't know why, but when I'm off, I just want to sit on the couch. I'm like, what do you mean? You don't know, bro? Yeah, like sitting down.

Starting point is 01:43:29 You're up for 24 hours, four days in a row. Operating on gunshot wounds and stuff. You've been doing it for, you know, 15 years. What do you think, yeah? I mean, it is pretty savage that somebody who has a job like that says, like, what else can I do? I'm going to start. What else can I do? Side hustle.

Starting point is 01:43:43 You got to love that. Lazy people. I love that. It's definitely. That's why I respect them so much. Yeah. I've always respect. I see that.

Starting point is 01:43:50 You know, what it's so crazy. We were just talking. I was literally just talking about him before it was higher, our buddy higher up wellness. And that was his clip, what it was all about was that was overthinking content creation and doing all the thing. And it's like,

Starting point is 01:44:03 dude, just document everything. And it's interesting too. Yes. 100%. No, it's, I'm super interested in what a day.

Starting point is 01:44:11 I want to hear about that. I know. And I, and I think a lot with it, people in his position, again, very similar to us, right?

Starting point is 01:44:17 What are one of the biggest things that we learn was some of the simpler, most basic episodes and topics that we would cover. That's what they need. It's always a very simple stuff. Right. And we wanted to just keep going deep and adding these layers and all this other stuff. It's like, man, it's just not, that's not what's connecting to more people.

Starting point is 01:44:35 And so we've had to steer content that way. Same thing goes with this guy. He's going to be thinking, oh, I want to do this. And I want to help these people for this. And it's like, maybe nobody wants to hear that from you. Maybe it's something that you have no idea about, you know. Excellent. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

Starting point is 01:44:48 We'll see what's at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos,

Starting point is 01:45:23 the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2779 : Is Hormone Therapy Healthy?

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