Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2781: What GLP-1s Exposed About Dieting, Training, and Longevity

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

Mind Pump Fit Tip: What GLP-1s have taught us. (2:47) New education platform for trainers! (27:02) Relationship dynamics when it comes to sexual desire. (30:05) Making 'behind the neck' exercises cool again! (40:05) Why sitting without breaks is a problem. (45:35) Kicking your soda habit with Olipop. (48:08) An update on Adam's training and diet. (49:35) Turning household chores into a difficult workout. (51:07) Embracing one's feminine side. (54:20) #ListenerCoaching call #1 – Any suggestions or program recommendations that would allow me to continue prioritizing the big lifts, build strength, and gradually reduce body fat? (58:19) #ListenerCoaching call #2 – I'm trying to find a balance between macros vs eating intuitively, working out hard but not overdoing it. (1:10:41) #ListenerCoaching call #3 – Thoughts on how to manage rapid strength gains vs joint health, whether I should pause progression or change training focus, and what programming direction you'd suggest for a female lifter rebuilding lower body mass without sacrificing longevity? (1:28:04) #ListenerCoaching call #4 – How to maintain these physical gains while coming off of the GLP-1, increase strength, and avoid injuries as I get older. (1:42:00) Related Links/Products Mentioned Get Coached by Mind Pump, live! Visit: https://www.mplivecaller.com  Skool Trainer Forum - ** Jan 31st will be the last day to get in for free! Price goes up Feb 1st. Visit: www.skool.com/the-elite-trainer-academy  Visit OliPop for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Get a FREE can of OLIPOP: Buy any 2 cans of OliPop in store, and we'll pay you back for one! Works on any flavor, any retailer. ** January Promotion: Code NEWYEAR50 at checkout for 50% off the following programs: MAPS Starter, Transform, Anabolic, and Performance! Visit: http://mapsjanuary.com/  Mind Pump Store Ozempic Has Ended the Weight Loss Debate – Mike Matthews Mind Pump #2597: Before You Take Ozempic, Wegovy, or Mounjaro Listen to This! Mind Pump #2410: How to Maximize Fat Loss & Preserve Muscle on GLP-1s (Introducing MAPS GLP-1) Mind Pump #2187: Why Building Muscle Is More Important Than Losing Fat With Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Elite Trainer Academy – Podcast What a study of 67,000 people reveals about sexual desire and age Mind Pump #2215: Simple Hacks to Improve Any Marriage With Adam Lane Smith Make sitting less and moving more a daily habit for good health Get a free Sample Pack of LMNT's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase! Find your favorite LMNT flavor, or share with a friend. As always, LMNT offers no-questions-asked refunds on all orders. Visit: DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Mind Pump #2560: How to Break Free from Destructive Body Image Issues Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mike Matthews (@muscleforlifefitness) Instagram Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (@drgabriellelyon) Instagram Mind Pump Fitness Coaching (@mindpumppersonaltraining) Instagram Adam | Relationship Psychology (@attachmentadam) Instagram  

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real quick if you love us like we love you why not show up by rocking one of our shirts hats mugs or training gear over at mind pump store.com i'm talking right now hit pause head on over to mindpumstor.com that's it enjoy the rest of the show between 2021 and today g lp1 use has exploded over 600 percent you heard that right in five years there's been a six six 100% increase in the use and prescription of GLP1s. And that number is expected to accelerate and continue to grow. In fact, some experts think that roughly two-thirds of every, of all population here in the U.S., two-thirds of America will be on a GOP-1 at some point.

So what have we learned? We've learned a lot. We're going to talk about the today. What have GLP-1s taught us about weight loss, weight gain, body fat, all that stuff? Let's go. I like to see the numbers, like the actual people. I know you've predicted some pretty crazy numbers on what you think that what percentage of people will have tried. I mean, I just, I recently shared on the podcast.

Well, it went from $4 million to $32 million in that period of time. 12% of the U.S. population right now is on a JLP1. And like I said, they think that two-thirds or maybe three-fourths of the population will at some point. So you're talking 70%? Huge. You knew it was going to take up. over and have that kind of effect. I don't, you guys, I haven't,

I haven't heard you guys comment as, I mean, I brought up recently on the show how taken back I was to be hanging out. I was at a barbecue, a mutual friend of ours. And there was, what, six of us guys. And, you know, these are all, they're not, they weren't, I wouldn't say fitness dudes, they're my buddies that stay in shape, right?

And so, you know, we got older and stuff like that. So everybody's not in the same shape we all were in our 20s. but all of them were on a GLP1. Yep. Yeah. And I was just, I was just so surprised that all of them were taking that.

And their wives, most of their wives. I think a couple of them didn't, their wives weren't, but most of them. I mean, I, obviously I expect that. And we knew that people that really struggled with weight loss and,

you know, were 100 pounds overweight, like, of course, that eventually they'd get their hands on it. And that's what was going to happen. And that's, that's a large percentage of people right there.

I mean, we're talking about 60% of the population is overweight. I mean, 40% is obese. So, yeah, yeah, I mean, I figure we got a long ways to go before we, millions of people before we get to that number. But to see people who I wouldn't put in that category

already adopting it makes me go, wow, that's, that's, you know, 70% sounds more realistic. And there's a couple barriers still. But one of the main barriers is you have to inject it. Yeah. So you inject it. It's, yes, it's under the skin, small needle, People are still afraid of needles.

I know. It's once a week, but still, people are afraid of needles. You just wait until they come out with a reliable effective, which, by the way, is in the works. It's coming out. I'm sure soon. A gLP one that's as effective that is a pill. So there's a lot of people that simply won't use it because they're afraid of having to inject themselves, but nonetheless it's still completely exploding.

We also have new generations of gLP ones that are not approved yet. that are even more effective than the previous ones. Yeah. So, like, you had some agglutide, terseptide was more effective. Reda 2 tried was even more effective. That's not even really approved yet. You just have people using Grey Market, you know, JLP 1 that way.

So it's just going to continue to accelerate in use. Did the episode go live of our live caller that had the transformation, the guy that was in his, I want to say, 50s? I don't know. Did that go live yet? No. That hasn't gone live yet, has it? I think it probably has.

It might be attached to this one. It might be. It might be. Yeah, let me. If it's not, I would love the listeners to be able to, or viewers, to see that, see his before. His transformation was incredible. Here's what's cool about this. First of all, GLP1's, I talked about how they've exploded in use over the last five years,

but they've been around for a long time. So, GLP1 medications have been used now for Doug. Maybe he confirmed this, but I believe it's been like 20 years. If I'm not mistaken. So they're not like this completely new thing. We just had newer ones that were more effective, less side effects, and then their popularity exploded. But they've been used for diabetes for a long time.

Is it 20 years? Yeah. 2005. They've been out for a while. And now because we have so many people using them, we're learning a lot about, well, actually, we're learning a lot about people. And we're learning a lot about what JLP ones actually do, what they don't do.

And the first point that I want to bring up, which I read, and I think Mike Matthews wrote a great article on this. Oh, dude, I'm so glad you're bringing this up. Very controversial article, but he's 100% accurate. He made great points, though. He made a, I mean, and it's, you know, it's inflammatory, but what he's saying is true, is that all the, all the crap that was out there,

all the myths around why or beliefs around, why we're so obese? Why are we so overweight? Oh, my God, it's our metabolism. Oh, no, I'm just... Genetics. Genetics. It's a disease and this and that.

It turns out everybody, we're just eating too much. Yeah. Yeah. It just turns out people were overeating. That's what you inherently knew. Yeah. Because what GLP ones do, now they do much more than this, but the weight loss effects from GLP ones largely come...

I mean, most, if not all of the effects, come from the fact that you just eat less. You take a GLP one, it's a hormone signal that tells your body it's full, and it's very powerful. signal. If anyone's ever, if you've ever used the GLP1 or you talk to anybody who's used one, they'll tell you someone who overate like crazy before goes on the right dose. And suddenly they're struggling eating food. That's how powerful they are. They're struggling to eat more food. And so again, it turns out it wasn't all these other things, everybody.

Now that's not to say there aren't other, you know, health issues as a result of the environment, as a result of maybe chemicals that were exposed to and all that of the stuff. But the weight we ate too much. How do we know this? Everyone's losing weight. Because they're eating less now. Everybody's losing weight. So that was the main issue.

It's not your genetics. It's not some weird thing that's happened. Pretty much killed the health at every size movement. Oh gosh. Him and I were going to that one. Him and I were going to. That was the other thing that he went after was all these influencers that

because Mike didn't just stop there. Like Mike went on to go after all these body positivity people. That's right. That made a huge, you know, follow or built a huge following off of body positivity now they're on osimpic and they lost all this weight and so it's like it's you know we were all body positivity when we were a certain size but then now that this drug will help me lose 100 pounds now i'm going to take it which is kind of flies in the face of that whole movement yeah turns out it completely it turns out people are not happy at any

size that's a that's a myth that being obese and having poor health which they're closely connected it doesn't make you happy. It makes you feel terrible. When given the ability to solve it, albeit through a medical intervention that's effective, you choose it because it doesn't feel good. Now, I do want to say that people need to be treated with respect and dignity.

Of course. People need to be cared for, and obesity just happens to be something you can see versus other issues that we all have challenges. All of us do. Nobody's even close to perfect. But the myth that we used to rail against was just like you said, this false body positive.

Like real body positivity is caring for myself. Fake body positivity is I'm 400 pounds and I'm happy and it's great and I'm healthy still. You're ignoring all the health concerns. Right, which is false. Well, the other part that's interesting is that, and we've talked about this for a long time, which will be interesting to see how this unfolds, is that the people that are using this intervention to just cut out the weight to get down. that don't solve the root cause or the problem,

because we've talked about this many times with a client, is a client that is motivated to restrict calories and punish themselves in the gym just to lose all this weight, inevitably almost always puts all the way back on because what they end up finding out is the same version of themselves, 100 pounds lighter is still just as unhappy. And so you have to get happy first and solve whatever it is that makes you unhappy

before you lose a weight. And many times the weight is just a reflection of how unhappy that you are. And that's one of the hardest parts as a trainer was, is getting to that deep of a level with a client. And many times it's such a short period of time because you just, this person just meets you. And they want help. You got to lose 100 pounds.

And you know that the weight is just a side effect of something else. They are using food to medicate whatever thing they have going on inside deep. And if I just, sure, if I run them every day and starve them or give them a jab that makes them not want to eat, I can get that weight off. But I still don't solve the reason that they got there in the first. Now, that's not to say that obesity will contribute to feeling worse as well. So losing weight can also help. That's also, we also have to say this, which is, yes, people were eating too much. But it's hard to not eat too much.

In fact, that's putting it too lightly. It's super hard. Most people know the negative risk. They know the heart disease risk. They feel it in their bodies. They can't move. They're not happy with all these different things. But yet, and yet, majority of people are overweight and a significant percent, almost half are obese.

We live in a world where it's, look, food is accessible. It's hyper-palatable. It's inexpensive. and it's the easiest way to self-medicate. It's an acceptable way to self-medicate. And so it's hard. It is hard. But it was that.

It was still the food. It was still that you were just eating too much. Here's the other part of it, which we're learning, which, by the way, good trainers and fitness experts would have told you, but now people are learning this, that just eating less helps, but it's not the fix. And I'm not even talking about what you're talking about. I'm talking about just the physical part.

Because here's what happens. when you just eat less. And this is what we see with people on GLP1s. Yeah. 30 to 40% of the weight lost is muscle. What happens when you change none of your physical activity? You're not trying to send a signal to preserve and build muscle and you just radically cut your calories. Well, yeah, you lose fat as your body tries to make up the difference. But then what it does is it learns how to it adapts to burn less calories because it's trying to meet the new caloric intake, right? Because otherwise you'll die. If you just eat, less than you burn always you'll die.

So your body figures out how to now burn way less calories. And one of the ways it does this is it pairs muscle down. And in essence, it slows your metabolism down. And so eating less helps, but it's not the fix. And we know this as trainers. Like when somebody would just go on a diet and they'd lose a bunch of weight,

they'd lose a bunch of muscle with it. And this is predictable. And you see this with the GLP1 studies just like you would with anybody else who weight less calories. You can also see the market responding. I've been bringing up to you guys and we'll say every day I'm reading a new article. You know, Starbucks is doing it now. Who's the other one?

Someone in our thread just sent over another company. Everybody is trying to market protein. Yeah. So like that is like the new. Protein menus are coming out. I'm not about fast food. Yeah. Like fast food is now using that as a marketing point for this.

They're trying to stay ahead of what you're talking about right now. Because we talk about this. We've been talking about this forever. That the average client that we would get was already. grossly under-eating protein. That was when they were overeating calories. When they were overeating calories, many of them were still under-eating protein.

It was carbs and fats and sugars and stuff like that, that they were over-consuming. Many times they were low on their protein or barely hitting the essential, like what they needed to do. Definitely not if they were trying to hold on to muscle mass in a calorie deficit, which all the research points to you should increase your protein in a situation like that.

So now you have these people that take the shot and then they dramatically reduce their calories. So the weight comes off, but now they're eating even less protein. And so then what are you going to have? If we actually get to the point where half or two-thirds of the people are on this osemic, everybody's going to be chasing protein. And so now you can see the market responding. You know what this reminds me of?

This reminds me of in the eight, I don't know, you guys remember this in 80s and 90s, there was this big push for calcium for bone density. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Huge push because there was all this awareness around. Added in everything. Milk does a body good came from. So there's all this huge push for awareness around osteoporosis. Because you were seeing osteoporosis rates were becoming more aware of them.

And, you know, maybe rates were rising, probably due to our reduced activity. So like, hey, calcium, this is it. You need to take more calcium. It reminds me of that because you can bump your protein. It'll help a little bit. It's going to help a little bit. If you don't strength train, that's all you're going to get, though. The strength training has to pair with the protein.

So you go too low calorie and you can eat high protein. You're still going to lose a ton of muscle, everybody. Yeah. It might help a tiny bit. But let's say instead of losing 40% of your weight for muscle, it might be more like 38% or 36%, which is enough to make a difference. It's not that big of a difference, though. So the thing that people need to figure out is, yeah, cool, bump your protein.

That's good. You got to send the signal. Yeah. You got a strength train. If you don't strength train, that muscle's gone. Your body will always get rid of muscle if it doesn't think it needs it and when the calories are low. And so this is what people are starting to figure out with the gLP ones is I'm eating less and it's cool. I'm losing weight.

But this isn't really fixing everything because I'm losing muscle. I still feel weak. I still don't feel as good as I thought I would. Still got a strength train. You still got to work out. Another thing people are figuring out is you still plateau. Yeah. And this kind of plateau sucks.

Oh, God. Yeah. By the way, again, you ask any good trainer, they would have told you this because we see this with clients too. But if you just dramatically cut your calories, even if you work out, but let's say you don't work out, let's just cut your calories. Eventually your body learns how to burn less calories. Now you've plateaued with a very slow metabolism. So you went from eating 3,500 calories a day to eating 1,200 calories a day. You lost tons of weight.

You still got 25 pounds to lose. Oh, what do I do now? I just up my dose and eat 800 calories. That doesn't seem right. Right. No. You're still going to plateau. You've got to do the strength training.

You got to build the muscle, the muscle, the calorie burning machinery. I'd say of all the points you're bringing up right now, this was the number one thing that we learned when we took the group through. Yeah. You know, last year. It was common effect. Yeah. Last year. We had to reverse diet and everybody.

We took on the group of 50 people on GLP ones. The main reason for this was for us to learn, right? we haven't been personal trainers since the introduction. Now we had a lot of theories and points and things that we made, but it's like, okay, what would it be like for us to train? And so we took a group of 50 people so we can get an idea. So it gave us a really good snapshot of, you know, one, the type of people that are taking this to the challenges they're having.

And the number one thing that we saw. And it was like, oh, wow, all of them at one point hit this hard plateau at one point. With a really low calorie. Yeah, there was definitely a large variance at what point. Like some people lost 30 pounds and then plateaued hard. Some lost 10 pounds and then plateaued. Some lost 75 pounds in plateaued. But, you know, they all eventually plateaued and were at this extremely low calorie yet doing all this activity.

And they still had further they wanted to go. And so we got to build muscle. We had to reverse diet everybody. Yeah. You have to still get a plateau. So it's important when you're on a GLP1 that you strength train properly and heat appropriate optimal protein. so that you don't hit that plateau. And if you do plateau, you have to do something called a reverse diet,

which this is going to be interesting to me because reverse dieting is still not a, it's not a well-known method or term. You know, if you say it to the average person, like, what's a reverse diet? But a reverse diet is you hit a plateau and it's like, okay, now I'm going to go through a period of increasing my calories and strength training, try and build up my muscle,

trying to build up my metabolism. Which ideally you'd actually do that first. That's right. Before you get on the GLP one. So because a lot of times, the majority of these clients are they're already at a pretty low to moderate amount of calories that they're intaking and then trying to drop and it's like you know we build you up we build up your muscle mass that's the ideal part so then we can start you know scaling it down totally and then

you know lastly and I think this is uh this is kind of silver lining although I do think JLP1s overall are going to be a benefit um is that trainers are more valuable than ever oh yeah and what's interesting too we never went away well this this this complicated the process. Yeah. So training, it's funny because to the average person, I mean,

you can correct me if this is not the direction you're going, but this is what comes to mind to me right away. The average person thinks, oh, because it's JLP at 1s, now everybody can lose weight real easy. Nobody's a trainer. Yeah, nobody, it's easy. A lot of trainers were actually afraid.

I know. They thought they wouldn't get close. And I remember this was the argument that we'd make to them is like, we do. We got push track. No, I would make the case that it just got more complicated than ever.

Yeah. You got easy to lose weight, but that's not solving the problem, especially when you have, I mean, I love, That's why I love the way Dr. Gabriel Lyne has been positioning this, which is we do not have a fat problem. We have an under-muscled problem.

And so if we agree that our country, more so than being obese, is under-muscled, and we put 70% of them on a GLP 1, boy, that is going to accelerate that. If we do not have the right coaches in place to help these people and guide them through that process. And so I think there's a need and demand for them more than there ever has been because I don't think it was,

I don't think it's easy. Personally, myself, knowing what it was like going through it, coaching people through that process. So that's why I was so impressed like when we got that caller called in and said he'd lost all that. Well, he'd been listening to the show.

Yes. And then you saw us before. I'm like, oh my. The best out of anybody. And as soon as I saw the picture, I'm like, oh my, without him telling me what he did, I knew he did it right. He went from overweight to lean and strong

whereas a lot of people go from, jacked. Yeah. go from fat to skinny fat. Yes. Because they do it the wrong way. He's color number four. He is on this episode.

Oh, cool. Oh, cool. So, yeah, so stay tuned. But yeah, trainers are very valuable through this process because, A, they're going to make sure you don't lose muscle. They're going to monitor the protein and help you with that, which, by the way, is hard to do. First of all, it's hard to do anyway.

On a GOP 1, it's really hard to do. They'll help with supplementation, which I think is more valuable when you're on a GOP 1 because some of the challenges that they pose. Then they can help you scale down. and come off the GLP1 so that you could, you know, do this without having to, because I don't know if you guys have seen the studies on GLP1s, but people go off of them and they gain the weight back.

They can't maintain the behaviors. Yeah. And there's a coaching process that you can go through while on a GLP1 while coming off where you'll dramatically increase your success. We've seen it. We've already seen it with some of our own clients working with our trainers.

Yeah. It's now than ever. Now for trainers, you now have a tool. This is the most valuable tool I've ever seen for a trainer in my life. I mean, back in the day... If used correctly, it's amazing. I mean, macro counters were valuable. Step counters were valuable.

As a trainer today, a GOP1, holy cow. You've got a client really struggles with weight and you coach them the right way. Your odds of success have gone through the roof. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that one of the hardest things for clients is to cut out that noise. And I think that's one of the strategies.

But again, it doesn't end there, right? You have to work on creating good behaviors that replace that... Which is a process. This is the coaching process. Because taking it by yourself will cut the noise out. But eventually when you can come back off, it comes right back again. So unless you're signing up for the rest of your life to do it, the average person still will want some sort of coaching through that process.

So they create new good behaviors and a new good relationship with food. Otherwise, they're going to end up getting trapped and stuck on the thing. Totally. I just, man, crazy to think that you think we're going to two-thirds of the population. I mean, I would have- Because I feel like I would have argued before. until just that barbecue, just recently where I went, like, these are not the people who I thought

would even be taking it. And so... It's not going to be people, for sure, people need to lose 50 pounds, for sure. It's going to be people who lose 10 pounds, 50 pounds. That's what I'm finding most common is people that I wouldn't think should or are considering doing it

because it's being promoted as if it's an easy thing. Like, oh, this is an easy way to lose 10 pounds or an easy way to do that. And so you see a lot of people that, but, oh, yeah, you really don't, You don't need that. Yeah, it's not going to be. They're just going to use willpower.

What are you doing? Well, I think if you use it right, you develop better behaviors, you cut out these other bad behaviors or you don't engage in them long enough. You know, your neural pathways change and it can make it easier, but there's still a process of coaching that's involved. Yeah, but I would make this, I would make this. This is again, back to what Dr. Gabriel-Line. So when I think about the average person that I know,

that's in my life that's that's wanting to take it. It's these it's friends of mine that need to shed like 10 or 15 pounds maybe 20 at most and the thing that they need most is actually to increase protein lift weights, build some muscle

and that will then speed of their metabolism. Here's what I think. I think they're all going to figure it out. I think people are going to play this game and then everyone's going to be like yeah you still got to lift weights. You still got a strength train. Yeah. You still got to do those things. And it's hard on a low calorie diet. That's what I mean. That was the thing that I remember You know, they're going to be like, I have no energy.

For the listeners that don't remember that I went through this process and I intentionally did it without my trainer brain, right? Meaning I didn't go in. You did it for people who know, like Adam went on a GLP1 to test it so he could talk about it. Yeah. So you went on it and didn't coach yourself like you would. Yeah. What would the average person do? Right.

They would just not eat unless they were hungry. And that's what I wanted to experience what that felt like so I could communicate because I know I have the discipline to be a competitor. I know what it's like to eat cold fish. You can do it. Yeah, I can force myself to eat protein and to do the weights and to do all the things to make sure that I come out with this awesome physique using this, you know, intervention. But what I wanted to do is like, what if I was just somebody who took this and I'm trying to lose away? What were my natural behaviors, my instincts and things like that? And it's like, oh, wow, you forget to eat.

You don't have any cravings. You don't even want, like food doesn't even taste the same anymore. Like the things that you love to eat don't even taste like where they used. it tastes like you. And then you don't do that. So then now you get tired because you're so low calorie. So then you started playing this game. It's like, well, I probably should go lift weights.

But man, I'm so tired right now. I should probably help my help. I remember I had to choose. Like if I was going to go and get a little workout in or I was going to help my wife around the house. It's like, well, yeah. I mean, it was like, I'd be like, well, I know the help of my wife out around the house is probably going to save my marriage more than me getting inside the gym.

I'll choose not to do that. And then I would do that thing. And so you start making these decisions like that. and it makes it really difficult to maintain muscle. So I'm so impressed when I see somebody who's been able to do it and then also lift weights and hit the protein tape because it can get real easy to just quite the noise, not eating any food, not do anything.

I think if you're going to use one of these, find yourself a good coach. I know they're hard to find, but find yourself a good coach who knows how to work with them. And then your odds of success are really good. Without a coach, it's going to be tough. It's going to be really tough. Speaking of coaches, I want to ask you about our school forum.

So explain that for our trainers and coaches that listen to the show. So I'm super excited about this. So for a long time, you know, we've had Facebook as one of our main sources of forum. We have the Instagram page that we do for all trainers and coaches. And we've just fallen in love with the platform school. S-K-O-O-L. Yeah. So this is the new platform.

It's great for forums. And it's been around for a little while now. I know that Hermosie and his partner, you know, they, you know, his partner launched and then he partnered up

afterwards with him. So they've been working on it. And it's evolving and it's getting better and better. And it got recently introduced to us last year. And the ability for us to add education, add tears to it, add videos to it, add folders to it.

So it just makes it easier for people to find things that want to learn from us as far as coaches and trainers. And, And we're adding all kinds of stuff to this right now and building it all out. It's already got lots of valuable stuff. You know, one of the most valuable things that we got feedback from our elite trainer academy was the live coaching calls where Sal comes on and works with watching. Like one of our trainers here a lot of times when they have a difficult client,

they'll call Salin to come and help them navigate that conversation. And so he comes in on the really hard conversations, right? It's not basic stuff. It's difficult ones. And he, he will, and it's recorded. And so, this type of content, a lot of the feedback from our trainers has been extremely valuable. So we've literally used that type of stuff and then we've categorized it, right?

So it's like if you're working with a client and you have fat loss stuff that you're dealing with or you have someone reverse dieting or you have someone trying to muscle build. So it's really easy for the trainer who's a part of our community to be able to find the resources they want to help them be better coaches. And school just delivers that really well. And then there's also going to be like one-on-one coaching that you'll be able to do with like Ann and our coaches and stuff like that will be other tiers. But the main reason why I wanted you to bring it up today

is because this is the final three days that you can get in there for free. Free. And it's free for life if you get in there right now. After that you pay. After that, it's going to be a monthly subscription to have access to all this. So it's free for life if you go in now. Yes. Oh.

So if you get in right now, you can get into the community for free. Eventually, by February, we're going to charge to have access to them. So how do you get in there for people listening? You get the school app and you search up what? Mind Pump, coaches. Yeah, I'm sure we can have a link. Can we put a link directly to that? Yeah, we can.

So we put a link in the show notes. You'll be able to look up Elite Trainer Academy. I think that's what she, did we name it? Did Ann name it Elite Trainer Academy or did we train? Yes. Okay. So yeah, you look up Elite Trainer Academy, Mind Pump. You'll see it under there.

And if you get in before February 1st, it's free. If you don't get in, so if you're a coach or a trainer or even aspiring one, and you're not yet, get in there now so that it's free. going forward, it'll be a monthly membership. Any interest there for sure. This is a great opportunity for you. All right, I want to ask you guys a question because I think I know what answer you're going to give me, because I have a study that

just came out. It's really interesting. So, what is the widely held belief on when a man's sexual desire peaks? Like, what age? Teenage. 16. Okay. 16. What do you say? Yeah, I would say like 20, maybe. I've always heard it's like 18, right?

Maybe 20, maybe, you know, that's when your sexual desire peaks. It's not true. So they did a huge study over 67,000. So it's a big study over 67,000 men. We're 80. And what they... Oh, like, finally.

Men's, you know, quote unquote, craving or desire for sex was at its highest point when men were in their late 30s, early 40s. Now, here's what they find. Really? It's not because it's when you have the most testosterone. Definitely not. It's not because you have the shortest refractory period. That's when you're 18.

meaning, you know, you could have sex multiple times. Most confident? It's because they've, they're realizing, they're realizing that relationship dynamics play a much more significant role than initially anticipated. In other words, stable long-term relationships are strongly associated with increased sexual activity

and emotional intimacy. So you're no more mature relationship. Well, you know, that also, you, as I was going to say, you, the more, the more, you've talked about studies before, like the people who report the best sex or people that have been in relationships and been married for 30 years and women hit their peak in their 30

so a lot of guys probably that are married been married for years get the benefits of that so I would imagine there's some sort of a feedback loop well what it is because that's also that might also be a myth Adam I don't know that might also be about women's sexual peak at this whatever I think really what it is and this is a great study is we're constantly told

the world constantly tells us media whatever that it's when you're your hottest, right? It's when you're your teens or your 20s and everything's perfect and this is when you have. And the truth is people have the best sex when they've been together or married for a while with the same person. Oh yeah. And they're connected, which is wonderful to teach and tell, you know, teenagers and kids in their 20s. Because then you hear this and you're like, oh, that's what I should aim for because I don't know about you guys, but when I'm 18, 19 in my 20s or you're trying to date. Yeah, your aims all the place. You're thinking. You're thinking. You're like, you're like, you're

kind of like, oh, it's going to suck later. Let's just do this now and whatever. I say, no, it's like, you're in a good relationship for a long time. Same woman, same man, not tons of novelty. You're definitely not your hottest in your early 40s. You can be fit and all that stuff, but you're not, that's not your, you're considered the hottest. I tell our young staff that works for us all the time that, that was, that was one of the biggest lies that was sold to me.

Yeah. I mean, at my, my relationship is 16 years now, and I swear to goodness at 16 years, everything about it from the sexual point is better today than it was in the what they call honeymoon face. Early on where they were it supposed to peek. There's that old saying if you put a marble inside the jar every time you had sex in your first year of marriage, you'll, and then every year after. Yeah, every year that you'll never empty the jar. That's so full of shit.

Such a lie. That's such a lie. That's such a lie. The frequency, how much all the things are. Enjoyment, connection. And it makes sense because you are. If you've grown together, most people that have lasted 10 years or more in a marriage, you've probably grown with that person, got more connected, got to know them, got more comfortable,

and all those things lead to a better sex life. I think the only thing that anything the early years have is the novelty thing. And a lot of times the novelty thing never plays out to what you think. It's only exciting because you don't know. Like, oh, I've never slept with this person and you're excited. And then you have it. And then most time it doesn't live up to what. you built in your head.

So then if you compare all those exciting, what's it going to be like to what you actually have in this 10-year, 15-year-a-marriage because you can close. Well, what we've done effectively, and there's a whole process, and people talk about this. Birth control is part of this process.

You know, the sexification of society has kind of, you know, also done this. But, you know, we're led to believe that sex is separate, or the act of sex is separate from, emotional intimacy and relationship, when in reality, it's a side effect or a result of, right? So sex is a result of,

or it's supposed to be a result of, this intimate relationship. It's not this separate thing, but we've separated it. So it's like one night stands, novelty, pornography, it's about a hot body, it's about looking young,

all that stuff. And so this is what we're led to believe. It's not, yeah, there's no real deep connection. Right. And so meanwhile, it's so meanwhile, people are like miserable, and we're like, why am I miserable?

I mean, I'm sleeping around. I'm doing, you know, this isn't, this isn't what I thought it would be. Yeah, it was Adam Lane Smith that talked. I remember one of the greatest hacks that he shared with us. There's actually steps that you can take to even improve that in your, even a good relationship. And I remember after the, it was one of the first conversations we had with them. And I remember applying it in our marriage and going like, holy shit, that's a hack. Like, because men and women, there's, we, although we're both, we both.

or involved in the part of us having sex, there's different things that drive motivators for us, right? And one of the motivators for men that he talked about was when we set some sort of a goal with your partner, it could be a financial goal, it could be building something, it could be business related, it could be improving something, learning something,

but setting a goal with your partner and going after it and achieving it, the oxytocin and all the... Oh, vasopressin. And the vesopressin that happens, the, oh my God, Like what it does for the relationship is unbelievable. It's such a mini hack that I learned from him.

And sometimes it could be the most simplest thing that we set forth as like, hey, here's our new goal. We're going to try and do this. And going after a small goal like that working towards it, the sex that that results in is crazy. Well, in the past, you guys have heard this before. Like, oh, is your sex life boring? You guys have married a long time.

Let's spice it up. What does spice it up usually mean? Yeah, yeah. Doing something, you know, weird or different. or bringing another person in the relationship. Reality, spicing up the sex of your marriage is probably really about working on your relationship. That's exactly what it is.

It's not about the new tricks. That's my point of bringing that up is that there's hacks to growing and building the relationship that results in the better relationship. And you're right. Normally the, you know, and that's why... That's a funny part because it's like most things that end relationships I've always found,

like get us even closer in our sex way better. Like, like, build. building a house together. Oh, I'm saying. Or like, Oh, that's exactly right. A business.

That's because you're accomplishing a goal together. Yeah. And it's, it's been like, it's crazy because we kind of laugh about it because everybody's like, oh my God, yours are still married. You know what I'm like,

it's actually been better and it's ever been. It's nuts, you know, it's just because we're on the same page. And I'm just like, I got your back. You got my back. You come in here.

You do this, you know. And so it's, it's just very much of like, I know, like, like a lot about her as a person, a partner account on her and it like it just i don't know it's a different level dude it's like

that's like goals achieve another level with it's a hundred i mean we katrina and i were just talking about this so it's interesting you went this direction because we just wrapped up q4 and q4 for for our household katrina and i is probably the most stressful time business wise because we have a lot there's a lot that comes to the business ahead at that time both on her side of the business and and you know and the two of us how have to figure this out. And there's a lot of that going on behind the scenes. And it's incredibly what someone else was a stressful time.

But we're both have the same goal in mind, because we're working the same business, right? And it results in the most amazing epic sex and time with each other because it bonds because of that. Because we're like, there is a for sure desired outcome that we are both aiming for and going after. And yes, there might be some stressful moments during that time, but ultimately it leads to this

incredible bonding afterwards or when we finally go, oh, we did it. We did that together. It's so cool. And it's just not like nobody taught me that. Nobody taught me. I mean, I learned that in my 40s listening and talking to Adam Lane Smith. Like, I wish that was something that I learned in my teens and 20s because that's something you could have been fostering in relationships. Do you see how important is it for young couples to have older couples or people around them as mentors? Oh, yeah. Nobody learned. And yes, you go through seasons. Like you have little kids. You're obviously not going to have tons of sex early on when they're little.

There's stressful times. All that stuff. I get it. But you're married for years, decades, right? But having older couples where you could talk with them and having, for men, it's so important for men to have a mentor that's older. You imagine having an older guy that's like your buddy or family memories. Like, hey, this is what it's actually like and this is what's actually valuable.

And I know you think this is what media tells you. That's not true, dude. You know, I think it would have been so helpful. Oh, my God. Listen, if you're listening right now. And you're in a young marriage, you're in your 20s, and you just recently, or it doesn't matter what age you are, but you've been recently married in the last five years,

and you haven't done this. Literally, set a goal. Set a small goal with your partner. It could be financial. It could be house-related. It could be physical. It could be anything, but it's something that you both agree upon

that you're going to work towards. Set it reasonable, right? That's something that you guys should be able to accomplish. And watch what happens. Watch what happens just when you both agree on a goal that you're going to go do, and you're going to build towards, so it takes a little bit of time to do that. and watch what it does for relationship.

It could be reading. It could be financial, it could be all these things. It's such a hack that nobody had told me until way later in my life. Totally, totally. All right, I want to talk about exercise here for a second because it really dawned on me the other day.

So my wife came to me and she's like, hey, I want you to help me to be able to perform an overhead squat. I need to work on my shoulder mobility. And I don't know where this came from. It might have been that she was talking with some friends about how she used to do silks and how mobile she was and she doesn't have the same mobility. And it made me realize that we've taken a whole category of exercises

that used to be popular and we've made them super unpopular because we've scared people by saying that they're dangerous. And these are all the behind-the-neck exercises. Yeah. And what's happened, behind-the-neck exercises, yes, they're difficult. Behind-the-neck pull-downs, behind-the-neck presses, stuff like that.

They are difficult, but we've taken them out So people are doing all the strength training. They're doing those traditional exercises. And they're losing that ability or not working on that, that mobility, which is very important. Is this the antidote, though, like to a lot of that everyday positioning stress, you know, in that forward position? Yeah. It's like, why aren't we strengthening and emboldening that? Well, dude, this came to me because I was, I don't remember where I was.

I was on Facebook maybe, and there were reels were popping up. And it was an old school bodybuilding, like, montage. and the range of motion those guys had with their flies. Yeah. And all of them did behind the neck exercises. In the in the 70s and 80s, and even the 90s, early 90s, mid-90s, everybody, every bodybuilder did behind the neck pull downs

and behind the neck presses. They didn't even get fancy. Just they at least did those exercises, staples. Yeah. And their range of motion was incredible. They had great. And I'm like, oh, my God, nobody does these anymore. And they just don't have the ability.

You take somebody who works out all the time who never does those, they can't do it. Yeah, we, I mean, again, this is like our certifications where it just became the standardized based upon people's normal habits and like what you have to actually work through to get good positioning and good posture first. Like they just want to skip right past that. And so we, I just think like overall we just, we've done a disservice with that kind of stuff. Well, we, there's also something else that was going on in the 80s that wasn't going on in the 90s plus. us. What? Like, computers and phones.

Yeah. Yeah, that accelerated that bad position. It really, I mean, in young people. Yeah. So if young people, like, even young people can't behind the neck press. They can't normal press. That's what I'm saying. Right.

And so you, you take a, you know, in 80s and before, that wasn't a thing. You didn't sit at a computer all day. You didn't sit on a phone all day. And, like, so, like, if you're a fitness person, you worked out and you did movements, like, that's pretty normal to be able to pull. but it's so not normal anymore to be even to pull your shoulder blades back and press with your arms in line with your ear or certainly pull a bar down behind your head like that.

Like you just... A lot of it too is just machines. Machines got really popular and everybody just stopped doing those exercises. And then everybody started calling them dangerous. In fact, if we do a post, it still happens today. Dude, I saw one recently. I think it was even one of our friends and I was just like, you know, like some exercise they'd eliminate, you know,

from the list and it was behind the neck pull downs. No, you get the humorous to move with the scapula and that retracted position. Yeah, you need to have mobility. So if you've never done it,

go real light and practice and go slow. And you'll get better at it. And I'll tell you what, man, I get some of the, from a muscle building perspective, they get crazy pumps. Well, the benefits of it is, this is, I mean,

and I remember when I went on the mobility kick so interesting that she's going this direction because I saw huge benefits from getting to the place where I could, I don't know if you guys remember. I got, if you go far enough back on my Instagram, you can see me doing overhead squats and working, working towards it, right?

And I had to start really, really light. You know what I'm saying? I obviously do a lot. A broomstick. Yeah, really, really light to start to do it. But what's so cool is that once you gain that connection again and you get it back, all to maintain it is way easier. You just touch it here and there.

I mean, that was my big thing when I worked on the squat, the ankle mobility and the hip mobility. Now all you got to do is just squat deep and just. There's no friction. to get there. Yeah. I don't, like the work to get there felt like a lot of work. It definitely felt like a lot of work because I had gone so far, you know, of not doing

that. But once I gained it, that's what's so great about doing movements like that is you don't have to do all these crazy priming movements and corrective work if you just keep certain movements in your repertoire. And if you keep those movements in there, you won't lose that ability. Otherwise, the body prunes it says there's never going to be a reason for us. I did. Behind the neck pull downs and presses as a kid because I, you know, would follow Arnold and all those guys.

And then I remember the, you know, getting my certification. They're dangerous. Don't do it. I stopped doing him for a long time. Yeah. I saw Mario's Pusunowski. Remember him? World Strongest man, but he looked like a bodybuilder.

Yeah. Yeah. So he wasn't even a giant. I saw him doing it and I was like, whoa. And I'm like, you know what? We did those in football actually. Maybe I should practice this. And I did and it took me a while. Couldn't even do the bar because I couldn't get my shoulders back.

And then I was able to and I got great development. I got great hypertrophy from doing that exercise. Anyway, I just saw this, I just read this article by this researcher who he was trying to tackle. Have you guys heard the phrase sitting is as bad for you as smoking? Yeah. So he went in and he went in and actually analyzed it and broke it. down. And what he said was it's not sitting. It's sitting without breaks. That's the problem. So he studied indigenous people, people, you know, tribes where people, do they sit? Do they still

sit? Do they sit down a lot? Do they rest a lot? And they, in fact, they do. But here's what they do. Every 10 to 50 minutes, they get up. They get up. Yeah. So he said, if you sit a lot, you'll erase the negative effects. If you just, every 15 minutes, stand up and move around a little bit and then sit back down. Just pop up, just pop up for five seconds, 10 seconds, sit back down. Well, I mean, that adds up. It does. But it also just moves the body instead of just being stationary. Well, yeah.

I mean, just, if every 15 minutes you made the, shoot, I would make the argument if every person that sits all day long just made the effort to get up every 15 minutes and move a little bit. It was a huge impact. Maybe think of that. Yeah, yeah. It's a huge impact. Imagine if every 15 to 20 minutes you just stood up. I used to get happy.

My client would just every hour do a couple of band pull parts or stand up or do something to do a couple of airs. squats, like every 15 minutes would be a massive accomplishment. All you'd have to do is stand up and sit back down. That's it. Just stand up, sit back down. Well, I remember that reminds me of that study. It was in Iowa, the physical education there had got like high honors because of the fact of like they just implemented the entire school. Every class you'd have to get up every 50, 20 minutes.

They got way better. Way better performance across the board in their attitude and their mood, everything. start adding bands and stuff in, but initially it was just about getting up from sitting too long. I know. Yeah. My son's school is really good about, they don't, they don't make it like that as much as they do. They just, they have like this whole, I want to say there's like seven or eight. I mean, there's like seven or eight like station things they do all day long. And they're always, even, even at this age, okay, so he's in kindergarten. Like, uh, each day is a different elective, uh, you know, PE or science or I forget, like, well, each one of them are, but

and they go to different classrooms. So they're also, like, teaching. Moving around. Moving around. They're always, it's never like just sitting at a desk in the same classroom. Like, there's like seven different things they do throughout the day. And they're constantly going somewhere, moving somewhere, and activity. That's so good.

No, they're really, really good about that. That's so good. Are you doing the cream soda like me? Bro. It is so. Cream soda, root beer. And then what's the new one that they just did? Shirley Temple.

I like the Shirley Temple. My kids really like those. Oh, yeah, do you bring them to the boy? You just say they already do regular ones. They do them. Every time I go to a restaurant and they're trying to order a drink, they're like Shirley Temple. So you brought them home? Yeah, I was a little nervous because, you know, it's like it's not as high sugar or not even close.

But they both have great taste. So I was stoked. I was like, this is a good option for them for sure. It trips me out because I'm looking at it right now. So I have the cream soda olive pop for people watching on camera. 50 calories. it's got how many grams of sugar three yeah three three grams of sugar in the whole thing it's not

no artificial sweeteners in here either so that my my taste my thing about it tastes like a soda my thing that's I'm excited to have them back is you know they we work with them years ago and we're back again and I've always had them in my house so it's whenever I'm trying to cut back on my Diet Coke drinking habit that I know is not good for me

this is where is like my go-to. And so it's nice that we have them back here because it's like I have, that's, if I have a habit that I would like to kick or get rid of, that it's my diet Coke drinking. Yeah. And Ollie Pop has been able to serve as like that segue for me to cut back or get rid of that. And so it's good to have them back.

Speaking of which, how's your training and everything going, dude? I'm doing pretty good. I'd say, um, you change so fast. It's hilarious. I think it's a curse for you. It is. It's a blessing and a curse. Because you lose motivation.

Well, because you're like, I'm good. I mean, I think that's a good thing. I think I've got a pretty healthy relationship with my body image, which took me a long time to get to that. So that part is a good thing. But it's the thing, and maybe you've got me to, you've helped me look at it differently because it, the same thing that is my strength is my weakness. Like, it comes and goes fast. So, like, I can.

You just adapt so fast. Yeah, I adapt really quick, right? And so I've learned to look at that as the positive side. The frustrating side is, like, I easily would, like, can lose muscle. Like I have to be stimulating. I've got to be hitting protein high. And yes,

yes, my body puts muscle back on pretty quick. It remembers what it had. But if I fall, if I just eat regularly and I don't like, I've always talked about this. If you've listened long enough, like I definitely weigh under eat protein and don't get enough calories.

And if I don't stimulate that muscle, it will go, it goes quick. You know, I'm not like some people like this guy over here who just like keeps muscle on his body all the time here around. It doesn't matter. He just gets,

He gets a little husky. He has some dream. He has some drifts. But I would say, you know, maybe the grass is always green on her side, but I would so, I'd rather have that. I get, I get skinny fat. Oh, yeah. You get like, like, no fat on your waist, like immediately.

I do. It looks terrible. It looks way worse. You said waste. Yeah, waste. I like your waist training. Dude, you guys would have laughed at me, though, over the weekend, I was like, I don't know if you guys ever even do it.

You probably don't. But, like, you look at something like as, a household chore thing outside. I'm like, I'm going to turn this into a really fucking hard workout on purpose. You know, like, like, so I was, I had this sink hole.

Not quite that level, but I probably would. I'm stupid like that. No, I was just in a mood. I was just like, I want to beat the crap out of myself, you know. Wow. Okay, maybe it's just me. I mean, I was going to align someone with you, but not that far, but I do, I do appreciate the like, Well, just like backbreaking work.

I just was craving it because it's nice day out. And I don't know. There's something about it when it was just calling me. And so I have this like big sinkhole in my backyard. And I was, I already filled it before I had been brought up with the show. Like I have this like huge pile from the previous owners that didn't, they just left me. They gifted me this like huge amount of like rubble of like cement rubble, you know, from the foundation and everything. And I haven't like I've been slowly chipping away.

getting rid of it. But I just decided, hey, I'm going to put this in the sinkhole, you know, and then try and cover and get so nobody, you know, falls in there. And I didn't have my wheel barrel. And this is where I was like, oh, screw it. I'm just going to carry it all the way down. So it was pretty far, dude. It was like at the very top of this hill.

Put buckets? No, I just carried, like carried it, dude. Like hundreds of pounds. Of the cement? Ah, that was yelling and throwing it. And then, like, I found this one. So it used to be, like, some foundation for, like, a little... These have goats and these have, like, this, like, foundation for, like, this little goat house thing.

And it was, like, this huge pylon that was, like, probably... It was a couple hundred pounds, easy. And I just got it out, unearthed it. And it started rolling down the hill. I was like, no. And I tried to stop it. It kept going. I had to let it go.

It would, like, smashed my fence down at the bottom. And I was like, ah, there's no way I'm going to be able to push this back up. And then I just laughed about it. And I kind of was, come back. I was like, you know what? No, screw that. And I literally just took it and was pushing it up this hill for like at least 40 yards or so. Just pushing it, grinding.

And it was, ah, every push I had to, like, put every ounce of, like, when you do a really heavy dead left, it was like, yeah. And then I got it, like, up, like, another couple inches. And then, oh, my God. I did that for me two hours and I was just done. For two hours, bro. Just crack, like, I was so tired the weekend after that. I was like, what was I thinking? I don't know.

It just did. That's the most just happening you could do it. I know. I was just like, I can't relate. I wish you guys would have to saw it because it was like so ridiculous. I just see a nice day. I don't think, hmm, I'm going to do some hard labor. I don't sit down outside.

I don't know. So I can relate to that. Like, there's times where it's like, it's a nice day. And I have, let's say, maybe I'm not going to try. I know I'm not going to train. I'm like, you know what? I should go do something physical and move.

And so, but I'm not, I'm not that inspired. Wow. You know, why you were doing that, I was doing something really gay. And I, uh, I, uh, I, I, uh, I haven't, I haven't felt this way since, uh, I was, I was sending, you know, pictures, pictures of my back muscles to Sal when we first met, right? That was the last time I did, I did something. I saw that. Right.

And I remember after that with like back and forth, him and I, like, when we were first, like, talking some of that. I'm like, I'm sending this dude, like, half. So I haven't had that. Hey, I haven't had that feeling until this weekend. I did something. And I went like, yeah, after I. You sent me a picture. Hey, after, yeah, after I did, I was like, yeah, that might have been a little gay.

What you do? What you do, bro? So Doug and I have been talking, right? Okay. So Doug is like, Doug and I have been talking. How do I get pulled this? Take a sip. So, Doug and I have been talking.

You know, he's his new place and everything, right? So we can talk about remodeling and stuff like that. And so I sent Doug pictures of my laundry room. And I'm like, I'm taking it from all these different angles. Like, oh, it's, you check it out, Doug. And I'm like, and I send it over to him. And after I send it, I'm like, looking at the conversation. I'm like, I'm seeing another man, my laundry room.

I'm like, that has to be up there. What do you think is color power? Yeah, I'm like, I got to tell Justin this next time I see him and ask him, is this is gay as when I was sitting in cell pictures of myself with no shirt on? I don't know which one's like, I don't know if you've ever seen those videos We're like in the distance, you hear this like, gree. Yeah, yeah. It's like it was, we were in conversation and he was talking about moving his laundering up.

Oh, I totally did mine, bro. It looks so good. In fact, we just finished it in my head. And I'm like, I'm in it with him and I'm sending all the pictures. And then after I send it, I think, yeah. You love that, though, bro. You love that stuff. You love it.

In fact, my wife, when she does something, because she's really good at it. interior design. She's really, she does a phenomenal job. She'll, sometimes she'll be done. And she knows that I appreciate it. She knows Adam appreciates that stuff for a while. So I swear to God, she'll tell me, she'll be like, hey, can you take a picture and send it to Adam? Like, no. I send a picture to another man to appreciate what you're doing. They have like a secret.

My wife wants you to see the dining table. She's, I swear to, it's 100%. She's like, bro, can he show this? Can you show this? Can you show Adam? Take a picture and say, I'm like, no. I do. I'm not going to do that. I do appreciate that stuff. That's the feminine side of me for. I'm sure I like that. Man, there was a wild animal where you couldn't say that something was gay.

Now you can see that. I'm bringing it back. That was part of me telling that story. It means fun. Listen, that's listening. We're 90. I mean, I would like all my gay listeners to answer which one was more gay? Me sending pictures to Sal.

Yeah. Me sending pictures to Sal. Let us know. Yeah. Let us know. Or sitting dug my laundry room. We didn't break this down. Because I had that feeling after I was like, yeah, that probably is a little bit on that side.

I feel like. It didn't cross my mind. Yeah. Lots of. Sure. Then why'd you send me a shirtless pickback? I was trying to keep that quiet. He took a picture of his laundry room, but he's in the background.

He's shirtless, yeah, yeah. I said what do you think of that? I said of my laundry room, just a laundry room. He sent me a picture with his shirt off in his laundry room. I was like, wait a sitting here. Watch my underwear. That's not what I was trying to send you, guy. I know, no, no.

It's a picture of his line, but the shadow shows him. Impressive, right? What do you think of my laundry basket? Very statue. Element is an electrolyte powder you add to your water. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it has a thousand milligrams of sodium. You heard me right.

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Go check them out. drink LMNT.com forward slash mind pump. On that link, you'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink mixed flavors with any purchase. Back to the show. Our first caller is James from Texas. James, what's happening?

All right doing, James. It's happening. Hey, guys, thanks for having me back on. Again, the obligatory, I appreciate everything you guys are doing. You guys are changing and disrupting the market and physical fitness and health all over. It's spreading like wildfire.

I appreciate everything you guys are doing. Thanks, man. How can we help you? I'm going to go ahead and just read my email. I'll keep it easy. I had an opportunity to speak with you about a year ago. At that time, I was doing a lot of traveling and attempting to use anabolic doing the home version when I was at hotels and doing the gym version when I was home. Since then, my travels significantly decreased, which actually allowed me to complete anabolic at the gym program, and I just got great results out of it. Started a second time, got about three quarters away through it, and started noticing and balances and some tweaks.

kind of happens when you get to my age. So I switched over to performance to address those issues. It worked great. I'm not having any issues. It really helped me out quite a bit. Throughout the process, my strength continued to increase. My body fat dropped 10% in that total time between those programs. And that was according to that in-body scan.

I know how accurate those are or not, but consecutively lost body fat. lately I've been trying to blend elements of like anabolic and performance to create what I've kind of called the Maps 15 plus style routine. I really enjoy the big lifts. So each day I perform like one lift, like the deadlift or a squat, and then follow up with a couple of accessory moves. If I do pull-ups, maybe I'll do the dumbbell pullovers or tricep cable pushdowns. So my concern comes into the sense of these sessions are taking me about an hour. I'm taking lots of breaks, lots of rest. So I'm worried it, and times on initially, I got plenty of time in the morning.

But I'm wondering, am I doing too much volume? Is it too much stress? You know, the next day I feel a little sore, but I'm not significantly aching or there's no problems with it. So I'm wondering if you have any suggestions on program recommendations or something you have that would allow me to continue to prioritize those big lifts, build strength, gradually continue to reduce the fat that I have on me. As I turned 55 in October, I just want to be the best version of myself mentally and physically. Yeah, thanks for calling in.

Show me, you're doing really good, man. Yeah, are you, how long have you been strength training consistently total? So I was former military. So that's not really strength training what I did back then. And then I did CrossFit for a while. So I got away from that. So I would probably say maybe good three, three and a half four years. I've been, since I've been listening to you guys, actually focused on the strength.

Okay. Yeah, I asked that question because sometimes people will create their own programs like you did. And if I'm talking to somebody who's been strength training for 15 years consistently, you know, that's usually okay. If I'm talking to someone who's ex-military CrossFit, probably not a good idea, to create your own program, because you're going to move in a direction. Oftentimes that's not the right direction or not optimal. Now, the other side is this. If you feel good, you're getting good sleep, your joints feel good, you're progressing, then it's probably okay.

An hour a day, typically, I would say it's too much, but it depends on the intensity and the person. It sounds like you've got long rest periods. Yeah, so I wouldn't be too worried about it. Now, if you want to follow one of our programs and see how you feel, you'll know within three or four weeks if it's better. And how you'll know is you just feel better and you're stronger. And so if you like working out every day, we have a lot of MAPS 15 programs now that you can try. And like I said, two, three weeks you would know.

In two or three weeks, you're like, man, I don't see a difference. I like what I was doing before. Go for it. If in two or three weeks, you're like, you know what? I feel better. I think I'm stronger. Then go with our programs and then take it from there. And I can send you one of them.

Yeah, and that's, I have 15, and then when 15 performance came out, I have that, my wife uses the 15, I got her the performance to try a little something else. I saw those other ones that were coming out. And I'm like, okay, out of those new ones that you just released, what would be better for that kind of desire? I don't know which one would. I should gravitate to or give a shot. Well, you have 15 performance. I like that one to jump in here and there. Strong or power lifts.

Yeah, 15 stronger power lift would be great for you. so I can send you one of those. And like you'll know in three weeks, James. In three weeks you'll know, like, okay, I was doing too much. Because you'll just feel better and stronger. But if it's no difference and you were like, you know, you like doing what you were doing before, you can go back.

You're at this really interesting stage right now where you've gotten incredible results. Sounds like you're really consistent. The routine that you put together is not bad. That's, I mean, doing a big lift, some accessory movements. To Sal's point, I think, I think following something that we've written is probably going to be more optimal if you're seeking change. Yeah.

But all honesty, there's a lot of times where I go work out and I do things. And is it the most optimal thing I could do to reduce body fat or to build that much? Or is it just something I feel like doing today? And I like doing it. And so, you know, when I'm coaching somebody that's reached kind of where you're at right now, you toggle back and forth with that. Sometimes I do things that I know this isn't the. perfect routine for me to get the closest

to my body fat percentage goal. It's just, you know what? I just feel like doing windmills today because I haven't done it and I want to throw them in there. There's a point. And but yet my foundation, what I like about what you've done is you value and you understand the value of these big gross motor movements. And so that's

the foundation of your program. And honestly, as long as you keep that and you stick with that, that's going to keep you. You seem to have a good mentality. Right. I like what Adam's saying. You already went to performance because you felt like you we're feeling a little imbalanced. But again, on the other side of that, right, is workout programming. There's a general idea.

But then there's a lot of detail that goes into it that a lot of people just don't understand. So you've got a general idea, gross motor movement, accessory movement. But how they line up actually makes a difference. What follows what? What is before the other? And then movement patterns and how that works. And then, you know, you have micro cycles, mezzal cycles. And so I'm making it sound whatever.

But I understand. All of that makes a big difference. And you don't know what you don't know. That's why I asked you what your exercise history was. Like, you know, if I was talking to a 55-year-old guy who's been strength training for 15 years, 20 years, traditional, it's like, hey, I know my body. I've been training. It's like, okay, well, I think we're okay.

Someone like you, I'm going to say, look, try what we have. If it works better for you, then you know that this is better for you. But what Adam is also true, man, like doing it for the sake of doing it because you enjoy it, that's great, man. There's value that. Yeah. When I came out of the performance section, I hear my friend over here, Justin, always talk about those Turkish get-ups. So I really got after them for probably about two months and just fell in love with that as well.

So it was something completely odd and different. And trying to get that. I couldn't ever get the 106 kettlebell above my head. But the 88s, at least I could get one. Wow. That's impressive. Wow, dude. That's impressive.

That's really good. Yeah. Mark that one off my list at over 50. Yeah. See, that's awesome. And, you know, and maybe that's not the fastest path to you to get 2% body fat down. But what a great accomplishment, all kinds. And I love a movement like Turkish get up because of all the benefits of it, mobility-wise, strength-wise, stability-wise.

So that's the point I'm making right now. And so I love this idea of you've got this. Another way I might look at if I use, all these 15 programs that we've written, I think you could go through each one of them, following the way they are. And then I would include every once in a while, like a mobility session. and mobility movements if I got more time. So you know what you've learned from going through performance, the value. You've probably heard us talk about unilateral stuff,

rotational stuff. And so what I think I would do is I would take our programming and just be running these different massive teams. And then I'd be sprinkling in my mobility stuff. Maybe every once in a while I'm adding a Turkish get-up that I'm trying to challenge, kind of like what you're doing, but using the blueprints that we've kind of laid out as the,

yes, as the foundation of the bulk. And I think you'll get what you're trying to accomplish, which is the best version of you, you know, at 55, feeling good, moving good, stronger, and you'll probably continue to lean out and get in better shape while you do it. And I think you have a good attitude, James, just by the way you were communicating

how you switch programs and what you're looking for. I think you have good judgment. I don't think you're chasing something so hard that you're going to sacrifice. So I think you're having good judgment. So just experiment. And like I said, you'll know, you'll literally know in two or three weeks. You'll know right, you'll know right away.

You'll be like, okay, this is it. Or you'll be like, actually, it's not making a difference. You don't have 15 strong yet, do you? I don't have strong or power lift. I just have the regular and performance. Let's send him strong. Matt Strong will be cool for you. A little bit more variety.

Yep. Okay. Yeah, we'll send that over to you. I appreciate it. And hey, to truth be told, I do. I am a coach for one of the big box gyms. So I've changed a lot of the programming that they were doing slowly influenced it. Because some of the stuff they were doing were very orange theory.

if you can say that. Now I've got them more and more from the ground up, switching it to the strength training with little birds, you know, 10, 15 minutes of cardio versus the 30 and 40 minutes they have. James, I wish you shared that earlier. So you train people? Yes. Oh, well, that makes you go.

I don't, let me phrase it. I don't do personal training. I'm doing a class. Okay. Just because of my time with my real job. I do it because I love it. I have a passion for. I love seeing people achieve new things.

that I've achieved through my life. So I'm trying to pass that down. Everything you give me, I trust me, I'm preaching it to the choir out there. Okay. Well, that makes a difference. You got a little metacognition going on. You're actually thinking of programming for other people, which helps yourself too. So that's good.

Yeah, yeah. Cool. Very cool, dude. All right on, James. Hey, thanks, guys. Keep doing the good work. Yeah. Godspeed.

You got it. Yeah. He has the right attitude. So I like what you said, Adam. because at the end of the day, it's like you enjoy it, you're having fun with it. That's the most important thing. You're not hurting yourself, got a good attitude. Yeah.

If his attitude was like, I've got to get as big as possible, you know. Right. And that, you know, like, okay, well, let's get some programming so you don't move in a direction that's going to cause problems. But he's got a good attitude. And, you know, for people listening, good strength training program, of course, you know, your diet's good, everything else is good. You'll know within a few weeks. Yeah. I mean, it's not like you got to, you know, do it forever to figure.

Within a few weeks, you'll feel the difference. You'll see. Like, oh, I feel good. I'm not hurting. I'm stronger. My energy is good. And you know you're kind of moving in the right direction. Yeah. I mean, he seems really healthy and mentally, physically, all the things. And so when my client starts to reach this point, you know, we're not always like the next body fat percentage goal or the next PR goal. Part of this is now like, hey, let's just maintain this for the rest of our life. And what that looks like a lot of times isn't always doing the most optimal workout to get me the most results. I don't train that way. I get on kicks when I'm trying to make movements in certain directions, whether that be strength or performance or body fat percentage. And then maybe my brain's turning a little bit like,

okay, these are the most optimal things. And I'm kind of paying attention to volleyball. But for the most part, it doesn't look like that. For the most part, it's like, take care of the big rocks. Yeah, stay interested and consistent. Yeah. And you know what I feel like doing this thing today? And I think as long as you're taking care of the big rocks,

you're doing the things that are going to keep the achy joints away and stuff like that and good mobility. You know, you don't always have to be moving. in the most optimal way to get you the fastest place to 10% by it. No, in fact, that's not a good idea to always stay in there. That's right. And so he's at that place where if he was my client, I'd be really challenging where are you at right now?

Because my answer is different. If you come back to me and you're like, hey, I'm doing this programming. And my body's had it in changing and I'm trying to get down 5%. Different answer. Right. Right. That's right. Different answer.

And we can tweak some things. But it's like, yeah, I mean, you're in a good place to play around with the different episodes. Our next caller is Kiara from California. Hi, Kiara. Hi. Hello. How are you?

Good, how are you? We're good. How can we help you? I just want to say, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I found your podcast a few years ago through my boyfriend, now husband, and it's been super helpful in my fitness journey. But I'll go ahead and get to my question if that works. So my question is how to create a healthy, sustainable balance between nutrition and fitness

after a few years of counting macros, completing multiple cuts, including completing 75 part twice and cutting for my wedding, and finding a balanced workout schedule after currently working out about six to seven days a week. I want to be able to do less but see just as successful results. A little bit more about myself as I grew up playing sports most of my life. In college, I started going to the gym and did strength training workouts I would find online and continue doing cardio. I started going to hit training classes in 2020.

I did my first run of 75 hard September of 2022. At this time, I worked with a nutritionist, and it was a, my first time learning about macros and counting macros. I changed my diet focused on whole foods, protein, I cut out processed foods and sugar and saw the most change ever I had in my body. I got down to about 6% body fat, but mentally it was really hard for me getting back to maintenance. Following this, I stopped the hit classes and started primarily string training with the addition of Pilates about two to three times a month. Following the first 75 hard, I did a reverse diet slash bulk and did another cut that summer. The second cut was more balanced because I wasn't following the strict 75 hard rules.

I then achieved maintenance and did another round of 75 hard the summer of 2024. Following this, I believe I stayed in a cut for too long as my calories were at about 1,700 for around 5 months. In order to prep for my wedding, I then did a reverse diet up to 2,100 calories and cut back down to 1,600 with specific macros at carbs of 135, fat of 55 and protein at 140. I went as low as 1,500 calories, but my body was not responding well, so then I went back up to 1600.

Fast forward, I got married in October of 2025 and felt very good in my body. I was fairly lean and at one of my lowest weights. However, I know this physique is not sustainable long term. As a sign note, I had my labs checked multiple points throughout last year, and essentially throughout my cut, my thyroid was abnormal. I had my numbers rechecked this last December 2025

after being more relaxed in my diet, after honeymooning and the holidays, and surprise, surprise, my numbers were back to baseline. Looking back, I was likely putting my body under too much stress with how I was training and eating. Now I'm trying to find a balance between counting macros versus eating intuitively, working out hard, but not over-training. I work as a PA in cardiac surgery, and I enjoy being active. I usually get 10 to 12-K steps a day. I currently train about five to six times a week at a group training class, and we'll do Pilates

three to four times a month. I have my current macros at 1,800 calories, 150 carbs, 65 fat, 155 a protein. I've done two hierarchs competitions and two half marathons and enjoy having something to train for, but I'm not sure I'll continue to do these competitions. My husband and I hope to start trying for kids soon, and I want to model a healthy relationship with food, one where I don't feel the need to measure everything and to stay on track. I love feeling lean and strong, and I'm looking for advice on how to maintain that physique in a more flexible, sustainable way than I've done in the past. Yeah, Kira, thank you so much for calling in. Yeah. How would you, give me like a short sentence on how you would describe your relationship to your body. Oh, that's hard. I think it's

something I like care a lot about and I enjoy working out more so too for like the mental aspect, which is kind of like my hour of the day where I like go. there and I don't have to think about anything and it kind of just gets me ready for the day. But I enjoy, I would say I enjoy looking like a certain way and like feeling good about my body. Yeah. Yeah. How would you, how would you describe the relationship with it though? I think it's a positive relationship.

Like I usually talk good about myself. I don't feel like I have negative feelings unless I, if I get to a certain point where I'm not like a certain weight that I want, then I might be a little bit more negative. I'd say it's abusive relationship. Yeah, would you mind? Can I give you some like some just brevity? Sure. Okay. So I, what you're saying, I hear the words you're saying,

but I'm seeing the way you're treating yourself with fitness and it's not reflecting the word. The words you're saying don't match with how you're treating yourself. Okay. Yeah, so your fitness looks like this and correct me if I'm wrong. I'm on or I'm off. I'm all in or I'm not doing it. I'm going crazy or I'm going off.

Um, I don't necessarily say that. I think I do respond really well to like discipline. Like 75 hard is almost easy for me because I like, if I'm like given like rules or something, I can like do it really well. But also like, again, I do enjoy like staying active and working out. But then sometimes I do think I'm just too strict. Yeah. Do you, you said at the end you want a healthy relationship with this? Yes. So what do you mean you want that and why don't you have it now? Um, that's a good question. I think I'm trying to learn what it looks like where if I feel good working out six to seven days a week or like if that's what I enjoy. But I think I need to learn how to like just do a walk instead of maybe going to the gym. Um, and just like being okay with that. And I think sometimes because I'm so used to counting macros, if I like try to intuitively eat, it's either I don't. I don't get enough food or like don't get enough protein or like I just kind of don't have my hunger cues because I'm so used to eating like, oh, these are my macros. This is what I'm eating today. Yeah. Do you want a less stressful relationship with all of this? I would love that. So your thermometer is way off. Yeah.

First of all, okay? Your thermometer on what you think it feels good and right is way off. Okay. You're way under calorie. You move like crazy. You've got a stressful job. you're attracted to things that are the opposite of what you should be doing for yourself. I'm just going to say it bluntly.

Sal's going to be soft and nice. No, I appreciate that. And he's going to do all that stuff. I'm going to tell you directly, your relationship, why I said it's abusive is because you think you're being loving to yourself and you're doing the opposite. Yeah. That you're not taking care. The low calorie, the crazy amount of activity, the attraction to high intensity,

working out hard is not a good thing. Your fat is low, your calories are low, your activities that you're choosing are wrong. And so, and if you think that's making you feel good, I'm telling you that your thermometer is off. That's like, these aren't good things. And so we have to reset that thermometer. Look, we can focus on the actions, and I can tell you what to do. But if we don't address what's causing the actions, it's never going to change. Okay.

And what's causing the actions is, we need to be honest about. And so you need to be able to say, okay, why do I beat myself up? Why do I do 75 hard to get into shape? Or why do I go five or six days a week? By the way, that feels, can I just tell you something? Yeah. When there's something about yourself that you don't like, it does feel good to beat yourself up. It actually feels cathartic.

So what feels cathartic are the workouts that make you want to like pass out or really restricting yourself because it feels like control. So that's what tends to happen. So there's something deeper here that, look, I tell you this, we can address this and we can fix this with coaching. Yeah. But you have to erase this false dichotomy. I think what you're like, here's what you may be thinking. Get the body I want, but then it's stressful and controlled and, you know, everything is measured.

Or I don't get the body I want. In fact, I go way off. But now I'm not as stressed out. and I don't have to worry about those things. But that's actually a false, that's not true. That's not real. The body you want is going to come from the right route, which is actually caring for yourself in the right way.

But it's going to take some time to get there because this relationship's going on for a long time, probably since you were playing sports, probably since you were an athlete. How does what I'm saying sound to you? No, that makes sense. And I don't disagree with that. I think the part where you're saying is I like when I I feel like the only way I've been able

to achieve the body that I want is like these like super strict and restrictive regimens. And I want to be able to shift from that and still achieve a body I'm proud of. But I just like I think that's what I'm trying to navigate is like what's the plan moving forward where I can like stop being so restrictive and like stop working out six to seven days a week. but I just don't know what that looks like for me because I haven't done that yet. Yeah, yes. I think that's something that needs to be painted for you, a vision of what that looks like, a totally different plan.

Yeah. You know, a coach will really be able to reiterate that and paint that vision for you. I think this is a common thing with a lot of, especially people that got introduced into weight training and have done it through athletic means. A lot of it is very intense focused. It's, you know, that's the only way you're going to achieve your objective, which I had to literally reverse my way out of that and find a different way to do it going for longevity. Yeah.

So there is another way to do it, and it actually is more effective to the irony of it. So, you know, really talking to somebody and, like, getting that all, all that information and data to absorb, I think will really help. I want to go back to the thermometer thing that I said to you. So we, because this is always, like I've trained lots of clients in, in this situation. And the hardest part to communicate is I'm telling you all the right things, but you feel something different. And it's really hard for you to connect with me and go, I don't give a shit. What he's saying?

After that workout, I feel fucking good. Because you do, because you get a cortisol dump. And it feels really good. And so it's really tough for to hear, listen to me and me going like, no, that's not. That's not a good feeling. and you're going like, no, I'm pretty sure that feels really good. I know it feels good. So it's hard for you to listen to the advice of, oh, I want you to do this,

I want you to do that, which is against what you feel. Yeah. But you first have to accept that, oh, maybe my thermometer is all off. And I don't know what healthy and right feels like. This is always the, whether you and I make it or not, if you're a client of mine and we're going to make this journey together, if we're successful, is me being able to get that message through is letting you know that I know how you feel.

and I know how good it feels and I know I'm telling you the opposite and so you got to just trust me that I've done this enough times that I know what I'm doing and this is where having a, to Justin's point having a coach who you can kind of outsource that to and know that

this doesn't feel right I know what good feels like when I'm working out and this feels weird and awkward and I don't like what I'm seeing and you're going to go through all those feelings through this process of resetting your thermometer and that that is the stage is that kind of awkward stage of the trust and letting go and realizing I have to change

my thermometer and then comes all these results. Then comes the body I want the healthy way. We have to accept that part. Definitely a way to do it and achieve it. We can totally get there. You're going to get, you can get there. This will happen. It'll be a remarkable and you'll feel great. But I'm going to ask you a scary question. You ready? Can you let go of the control? Yes. Can you let someone else do this for you and you just follow? Yeah, I can do that. All right. I'm going to have somebody call you because that's what you're going to need.

Okay. Because this is going to be a process. It's going to be a difficult process. It can feel very different than what you've done before. You're going to have to completely let go and ignore your old patterns, your old relationship to your old feelings. It's going to be scary as hell. Your body is going to love it, but your mind is going to have a hard time. You're going to rebel.

You're going to want to go against it. just outsource it, follow it. And then after probably about four, five, six months, you'll start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It'll be like, oh, whoa, this is way different. And it's going to happen. I'm doing way less. I'm eating way more.

I feel way better. I feel free. Oh, my God, my body's responding. This doesn't make any sense. I've never gotten in shape doing it this way before. It's always been this crazy struggle. What's happening? And then six months later, you're going to look back and be like,

I'm so happy. I made that decision. but it's going to take a little while. Your superpower that is going to help you through this whole process is your athletic background. But we just shifted in a different way. So like use that. Do what your coach tells you.

Exactly. That's so that that's where like what I love about getting an athlete is that if they're coachable, if they were one of those athletes that was very coachable and then you can trust and you trust your coach, we're going to win. We're going to win. And so if you can lean into that, that like allow myself to be coached, trust that process, that it will be your superpower through this, this, this thing. Not, I'm going to figure this out or let me go do, like, not the competitive side

towards your workouts, but the, let me listen to, and that part will be your superpower through this. Yeah. All right. It's going to be great. Kira, I'll see you, is if you work with one of our coaches, I'll see you. Okay. We'll talk about this a little bit.

By the way, are you close to us in the Bay Area? Because it says you're in California. Are you far? I'm in Orange County. Okay. So you're kind of far. No worries. I'll still see you when you're, when you're, when you're, we'll talk about.

when you're meeting virtually with our coaches. And you're going to love this. You just got to let go a little. You just got to let go to control for a bit. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So for now, just like wait to talk to the coach.

They're going to call you and go through. They're going to call you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. Okay. And then I guess just to follow up because currently my workouts,

there's strength training, but it's through like a small group class where there's like four to five people. I can guarantee you. I can guarantee you the coach is going to tell you something. Yeah. Okay. Do you have access to a regular. gym or gym or? I don't currently because I do the classes, but I can get access.

Okay. All right. Good. Good. Yeah. We're going to, we're going to shake all that up. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to love this. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Okay. Thank you. You know, what's both? Does she do it? Did she do it?

Come on, over under here. With the coach? Oh, yes, she will. Yeah. If you think so, I think so. I think she's going to work with a coach. I think our coach is going to have a hell of a time.

Working with her. But I think it's going to be okay because we got really good coaches who know how to work around this. But look, you know, here's a thing. This is what's really challenging. We get on a call and we talk to somebody for 20 minutes. This is not how I would coach somebody.

this is a long process. I'm not that much of an asshole. No. I'm not that much of an asshole. Yeah, but hold on. I'm going to defend you, Adam. Well, I have to be. Because I, because I tried to get her there and she immediately put up a wall. Oh, I love it. It's great. It's like, no, it's, no, you don't. That's why I let you go first. I let you go first and some people come in, welcoming and I'm like, yeah. She immediately went up with defenses and I get that. No, I love it. I love what I do. Well, why are you calling them? Why are you telling us you want a different relationship? Obviously, you don't love it, but now you feel like you need to defend it because what follows this is I'm going to let go

with this terrible relationship, this abusive. I've got to leave this boyfriend that's abusive and I can't leave him. I know that's a harsh analogy, but it's such a good analogy because if you ever talk to somebody that's in an abusive relationship, it's so scary, they don't want to leave. And many times they have a hard time even admitting that it's abusive.

Once it gets down to it, yeah. Oh, but they're good. It's like, okay, well, I don't know. So anyway, so that's the high coach people normally. but I mean that's just where we had to go but now we got a coach calling her and that's why we didn't give her advice here because I could have said whatever I wanted

No this is a this is It's not going to help her This is like literally There's like 10 steps in here This is not hey one let let Take some notes Let me tell you all the things you're going to go do She's going to hate

She hires a coach Let's start with this layer She works with one of our coaches She's going to hate the next 90 to 3 to 6 months She's going to hate it But she's going to follow it And then after that she's going to see the line I mean these were

This is where transformation happens That's right These were most my clients, and the hardest part is it's so hard when she knows how she feels from those things, because it does feel good. Yeah. You go crush an Orange Theory workout, a CrossFit workout, a 75 hard, and that cortisol dump that you get afterwards, that feeling of accomplishment, the energy you feel, like, you try and tell someone that that's wrong and that doesn't feel good, and they're like, this guy's full of shit. It's like telling somebody who drinks alcohol, their anxiety is worse because of it.

Like, we talk about it. When I drink, my anxiety goes away. It gets worse later. Trust me, it makes things a lot worse. It's hard to understand. But if she follows, she'll figure it out. She'll see. Our next caller is Chelsea from Oregon.

Hi, Chelsea. Hi, Chelsea. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? Good. How are you guys? Good. Thanks for calling in.

How can we help you? So, first of all, thank you guys for everything. You know, I've been listening for a long time. So I'll jump into my question. Here's some background. I'm a 36-year-old female and have been lifting consistently for about six years. years. I grew up overweight and lost a lot of weight over the years and have been able to keep it off. For the past five years, I maintained a pretty lean physique and I've always been naturally strong.

I work construction, so I'm very active on top of lifting. In January of last year, I injured my knee and had to take a few months off. I lost a noticeable amount of muscle in my legs and since then have been trying to rebuild lower body size and strength. My upper body came back much faster and I started to feel disproportionate. My upper body dominant, I'm more upper body dominant than I'd like to be as a female. I also tend to stay fairly lean without much effort. Even eating around 3,000 calories, I can sit in the mid-teens body fat. That made it hard for me mentally to push calories enough and really commit to regaining leg mass. About a month and a half ago, I made the decision to try a very low dose of anavar, five milligrams a day. I only ran it for two weeks. I gained weight

quickly and got very strong, very fast, which honestly scared me, and especially knowing the risk for women. So I stopped after two weeks. Since stopping, it's been a few weeks now. I'm still getting stronger, but the weight hasn't come off. My current lifts are roughly overhead press 135, squat 255, deadlift 315, bench 155. Damn. My squat alone went up 70 pounds in roughly a month. What? Yeah, strength-wise. So I used to lift a lot heavier, but then I got injured and I lost a lot of strength. Strength-wise, I feel great, but my joints are starting to ache.

So I'm wondering if my connective tissue hasn't caught up to how fast my strength increased. At this point, I'm unsure of the smartest direction forward. Should I stop pushing load increases for a while and let my joints catch up, actively delode or back off intensity, avoid lifting? this heavy altogether given my age and injury history. I'm also struggling with programming. I have ran anabolic a few times, aesthetic, and I just started aesthetic again. I've also started muscle mommy performance and symmetry, but didn't finish them. I just felt like it wasn't enough for me. I know everyone, a lot of people say that. But I, and I feel like a lot of your guys' programs are

kind of like bias for upper body, and I'd really like more intentional lower body, right now in hypertrophy while protecting my joints. A bit more context, I don't weigh myself, but I'd guess I'm probably around like 175 right now and maybe at 20% body fat at 5-7. I feel a lot fluffier and more uncomfortable than I'm used to. I'm not tracking calories at the moment, but I've tracked off and on for a lot of years, and I'd guess I'm about 22 to 2,500 calories right now. protein is never an issue i eat a lot of meat carbs are solid fats i struggle with the most hitting my

fats um sleep is great eight to eight and a half hours on average sometimes more sometimes less right now my stress is a little bit higher lately which i know could be contributing to fat retention i love your thoughts on how to manage rapid strength gains versus joint health whether i should pause progression or change training focus and what programming direction you you'd suggest for a female lifter rebuilding lower body mass without sacrificing longevity. This is going to be a fun question. It is a fun question. Did you watch last year when I did my transformation?

Oh my God. Yeah. You're Jack. Did you watch the transformation journey I did on YouTube by a chance? I watched a couple, but not all of them. So I bring it up because I made the mistake that you potentially commit. Like if you had a lot of strength before and then you're coming back, which is part of why the strength games are coming on. I kept pushing that and I injured myself twice live on.

on camera because I was feeling good, the weight was moving easy. And it was like, I put up, like 150, 175 pounds on my deadlift in literally a month's time. And I was feeling so good, so I kept doing it. Yeah, it's exciting. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. But I should know better, you know, and of course, I'm documenting it.

So I want to show the greatest muscle gain in progress and like an asshole hurt myself. So my suggestion to you would be to switch to focus from the, I'm. I know you want to build the quads, and that's kind of where it's at. But I think you better be careful. And you've got plenty of muscle. I'm looking at your pictures right now. Chelsea, you're the, what we would say, the 0.1% of genetics when it comes to muscle building, which is great. Now, strength gains are great.

We tell people to get stronger all the time because we're not talking to people like you. because at some point getting stronger, the risk to reward isn't worth it. So, like, if you gained 30 pounds on your lifts, the difference in the way your body would look wouldn't be that big of a difference, but the risk would be really high. So the question is, all right,

well, how do I change, how do I gain muscle in the places I want to without necessarily adding more weight? So it's a more complicated question. And again, this is a fun question to answer. Now, you only use the Anavar for two weeks. Other than that, you've been natural this whole time? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Like, you're the 0.1%. Yeah, and so those pictures are from May, and I was, I've always been natural before that. So those pictures were natural. Oh, yeah, yeah, so you don't need to go on an anvah. I know, I know. Did you compete or no? No, no.

Oh, my God. You can get walk in, you can walk in and win a show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so here's, so I think the best program for you is symmetry. Symmetry. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I know.

No. You started it. You didn't finish it. And then here's what you do with the volume, okay? You want to build, by the way, your legs are great. It's just you build so much, you carry so much muscle. Maybe old time strength too. So, yeah, so I think symmetry is the program for you.

I would only stay in the unilateral phases. And if you want more lower body volume, take some volume off the upper body, add it to the lower body. So if it says three sets for upper body, for an exercise, do one set. When you get to legs, add those two. sets to your, that's all you got to do, swap the volume. Yeah, swap it. And add it to, but you, you got to live in that for a while. And it's going to give you, it's going to give you the gains you're looking for without

the risk. So you're going to see the muscle gains happen because it's unilateral and controlled and it's going to limit how much weight you. The load's going to go down. You're going to get the hypertrophy, especially someone like you, without the risk. And you're going to feel good. Your joints are going to feel good. Get hyperfogic.

But it's not going to be as fun as loading the barbell and, and being stronger than every dude. And that's not going to be as fun. But if that's what you want, that's what you got to do. Yeah, you got to work towards feeling good overall with your body. Yeah. Live in. Different mentality.

Live in similar. I know I'm getting older and I'm feeling it. Well, you're the very few people we get to talk to are reaching or close to their genetic potential of building muscle hypertrophy. You're there. And like Sal is saying, like, you might be able to inch out another one to three percent. You know what I'm saying? but to risk what?

Like what you're going to have to push to get like the average person would not be able to tell the difference of that one to three percent. Maybe you could a little bit. Most women will never compete in power lift or something. Most women will never look like you and never be able to build. You have those kind of genetics. If you live in symmetry for a year, don't. A year?

No, no, you got to live there, hon. You got a lot of muscle. There's a lot of muscle recruitment patterns we have to work on and correct here. It's going to take a while. I mean, I love symmetry and I love what Justin suggested, which is old, like, you need to move in a different direction. Health-wide. If we care about, you're going to get, you're going to maintain a great physique. You have a great physique.

It's not going to lose that great physique. Get more functional. But you need to, yeah, you need to start to focus on becoming more functional. More mobility stuff. So it's like programs, like old-timey performance and symmetry are the programs you should kind of live in for a while. And get rid of the fear that you're going to not going to be Jackson. Here's why I like symmetry. Symmetry is going to give you the hypertrophy.

gains you're looking for. Okay. And you can swap out the volume and place it more on the lower body. So for every three sets for upper body, take two sets off and add those two sets to your lower body and you'll be happy. Do not do the last phase of symmetry, which is five by five. So you're only doing the unilateral phases and do it for a whole year. And you'll, you'll have remarkable changes. Did you, did you quit in the isometric phase? Is that where you quit? No, I didn't do symmetry for very long at all. I maybe made it like two weeks. And I just, yeah, the isometric.

I want to lift heavy things. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Sal's giving you a little bit of what you want to hear. I'm going to still push you more towards Justin because I think symmetry is a nice segue. Of like, so you, so we're giving you still a little taste of hypertrophy and kind of what you want. But you really need to move in a different direction. I mean, at this point, the stage of your life, where you've reached physically, potential-wise, If you want to be doing this into your deep into your 40s and 50s and still have a great health.

You need to start to like that way of training a little more. You don't have to love it. It doesn't have to be the cornerstone. It's all you do. But you need to live in it for long enough every year that you're maintaining that joint health, that rotational strength, that good stability. There's nothing wrong with being as strong as you are. So the thing is to be able to strengthen and support that. And to strengthen and support that, that's why I would move over towards that.

the old time strength because we're addressing things that are deficits in your programming. So, you know, it directly addresses it. You load it. You can't overload it because these are all new stimuluses and different positions that you're not used to, not strong

in. So it's like you build up your body you know, in these directions it's going to complement the entire whole. Here's what I'll say. We'll send you old time strength because you don't have it. Do symmetry for a couple cycles so you get a little what you want because old time you're strength. If you started that now, I guarantee you won't want to do it because it's so different.

There's not a lot of lower body specific volume in there. So do symmetry for a couple cycles. So, and stick in the unilateral phases, avoid the bilateral ones. And then when you're like, okay, I'm ready. Do old time and then go back to symmetry. And you'll get what you want. You'll totally get what you want. And you won't hurt. You'll feel good. The balance. Yep. Okay. I think I can do that. And at some point. I want to hear back from you in like three to four And at some point, if you competed, you would murder it. Oh, my God. Yeah, but you know what?

Yeah, I don't want to do that. No, don't do that because I don't think that's a good idea for somebody who's trying to tell you you should move away from being focused on that. I mean, she would kill it all you would. She would kill it in physique. She would kill it in powerlifting. It's like my roommate. It's this place where you're at.

I really think you need to start to try and learn to love some of the mobility stuff. And it doesn't mean you don't go back to hypertrophy. It's just that my. normal suggestion to people is like one phase or so one block at least three months of every year should live in like a performance or a symmetry type of programming at least at least three months of the year you should do that going on so learn to start to like that and incorporate more of that and and then you can get you can train hypertrophy like you love but then go back to that and that will will protect you and keep you healthy keep you strong keep the look you want let's have you

back on in a few let's let's have you back on in 90 days after 90 days of unilateral training I'd love your feedback. Okay. All right. We'll do that. All right. I'll start it tomorrow. All right. All right, Chelsea.

Thanks for calling in. Awesome. Thank you guys. Bye. God damn. I don't know if I've seen a... I'm jealous. I don't think I've seen a chick natural.

That looks like... I would have bet my bottom dollars... That's not the 1%. That's the point 1%. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I've seen a natural physique like that ever. No. Most women could take steroids and they wouldn't look like that.

Oh, God, no. Yeah. That's why when she said, Like that was like when she first, like said Anavar, I'm like, okay, so she's just taking testosterone then. That's how she said. Yeah. She left out that part. I'm on D ball normally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just dabble with a little bit of anavar for two weeks, but I've been on DBA all. Like, that she looked crazy. No, no, no. That's that, by the way, for women watching right now, like when you see the bodybuilder chicks, they have these kind of genetics and then they take the drug on top of it. No, 100. That's like, that's not even 1%.

That's the point. That's the 0.1%. of those kind of genetics, those muscle-building genetics where you just pack all muscle. But you don't see, this is, again, risk versus reward. Pushing strength for her

and bilateral is not a good idea. What's what happened to me? She could break world records, but she'll hurt herself. But symmetry for her, I think, would be great. I mean, it's extra dangerous, I think, or at least speaking

from experience, when you've already been that strong so it's coming back even faster than it would. 70 pounds in one month. Yeah. Well, that was what my deadlift, my deadlift went over 100

within four weeks. Now, it was, you know, I'm starting at hardly anything. But that progression, that fast and not reinforcing it with movements I should be doing. Yeah, it leaves you vulnerable. And, you know, on camera. Muscle adapts way faster than connective tissue and tendons. Yeah. Yeah. Our next caller is Warren from California.

What's up, Ron? How you doing, Warren? Hey, I guess. How are you doing? Good, man. How can we help you? Turns off, I just want to say thank you for all the time I've listened to your podcasts and all the guidance you're giving me. And just to jump to it, yeah, my success with what you guys have given over your podcast,

and over the years really I've listened to probably hundreds of episodes has been really life-changing. So I'll jump right in. My question is, and it's also just a compliment too, but I've lost 40 pounds over the last year following your program, specifically MAPs Anabolic. And I also did use a GLP1. I was desperate to try something different. And I know you guys have talked a lot about that on your show and how effective it is. And I also followed a high protein diet and a daily supplement of creatine. So I've truly am in the best shape of my life right now. I've gone from a size XL and shirts

down to a large and now a medium, which I never thought I could do. 30, to 34 to 32 in waste and that's like comfortable. 217 pounds at one point and I'm now, I went to 170. I'm not like 172 kind of hanging around in that zone. 54 years of age and I'm just wondering what's the best way now to maintain these gains, increase my strength of possible and avoid injury as I get older. And if there's any other maps programs. Wow, yeah.

Wow, bro. We're looking at your pictures right now. Yeah, great job, dude. Wow. Great job, dude. And you know what? And talk about using a GLP1 right. I just, I can, you look like you built muscle.

Yeah. Hell of a job, bro. Hell of a job. Wow. So you're- I don't know if all that was underneath and just came out. No, no, no, no. That's the work.

That's a test. Okay, listen, there's a lot of people that are going to hear this and want to go jump on a GLP one. And I'm going to tell you 80% of them will do it wrong. 80% of them will just starve their body. and they'll lose a ton of muscle and a ton of it. I know you ate protein. You ate protein.

You ate your protein. You strength trained. You got stronger. Those two things. Yeah, you did a great job. You live crazy, bro. So, hey, how good does this feel right now? It feels amazing.

Like, I mean, honestly, I walked around and people at the gym tell me like, wow, you're ripped. And I'm like, I've never heard that in my entire life. So, I mean, I've been, I've been overweight since I was in middle school, like elementary school. And I even did a weight loss camp back in 1986. and I lost 27 and a half pounds in a month eating 1,200 calories a day. Yeah. And I know that's not the way to do it. But it showed me that things were possible.

But that was unattended, like, you couldn't maintain that. That was, it was hard. I mean, you look like you shaved 20 years off your life, too. I mean, you look so much younger, too. It's awesome. I feel like it. Well, yeah. Sorry.

You, okay, so here's it. So, all right. The question is you want to come off the GLP1. How do you maintain all this? Is that the question? Yeah, and I've started the taper process. Okay, cool. So there's a couple ways we can approach this, okay?

You want to do a, what you're doing right, you're doing the right thing by tapering, just from the people we've talked to, the experts in the field and our experience now with GLP-1s, that seems to be the better approach rather than the cold turkey and suddenly everything, you know, the cravings come back or whatever. So taper, you want to do a control,

you want to still be, have some control with the nutrition. So you still want to track a little bit. still higher just so it doesn't where are you out with calories right now? Just curious.

I fluctuate pretty much about 2,500 calories a day is about what I need to maintain. And I think I was down. I don't know what I was probably around

2000 to 22 is what my goal was when I was kind of cutting and building. But like you said for the eating part like I had to kind of force feed myself just to make sure I hit

those numbers you guys always say for protein and whatnot. So what you want to do, Warren, is a controlled reverse diet. Focus on building. So you want to kind of take advantage of a little bit of the increased hunger. And then there's a bigger kind of picture thing we want to look at, which is you want to really think about how you're going to handle the hunger signals. Because you have a history of handling them in a particular way.

So what you need to do is substitute the old behaviors. Because what we want to do is just not do the old behavior, but we have nothing to substitute it with. Now, I don't know you, but. so you know you. So you got to think about what are my triggers. When did I overeat? Was it when I was bored? Was it when I was stressed?

Was it when I was socializing? So you want to think about that. And then you want to replace old behaviors with new ones, which is going to feel kind of awkward. So you're going to say, okay, when I'm stressed, hunger is going to come back. I used to eat when I was stressed. Here's what I'm going to do instead. I'm going to journal or I'm going to go for a walk or I'm going to read or something.

Okay. So you're going to replace those old behaviors with new ones. and start to create new behaviors around how you manage the increased hunger. Okay. What was the kryptonite? What was it? It was late night snacking for sure. Okay.

And sugar. Okay. I always was a lot of sugar. I would, you know, go through a bowl of ice cream or I should say, you know, like a carton, right? How long were we on the GLP one? Just under a year. Okay.

Okay. So good news is the neural networks, that were connected to some of those behaviors have weakened. So it's not going to be as bad as it was before. But you can restrainthen them by re-engaging in those old behaviors. You were just about to say what you replaced it with.

So what do you do now? Because I mean, this is my... Drink yogurt at night. Blueberries, briefed yogurt. That's my guy. I listen to everything you guys say. Yeah, that's me. I mean, literally that's my kryptonite is ice cream and I could eat a whole thing sitting down. And if I just make that

discipline to do that, when the cravings come back, it'll still be hard, but if you continue that, and I tell you what, uh, I know this about myself, I flirt with a little bit of it. And I go, I could just have it once in a while. And once a while, it turns into more often, more often, more often. So if you can just stick to that as your thing, as the Greek yogurt and, you know, granola or blueberries, that's kind of what I do at night when I get that craving. I also love using things like a Legion or Magic Spoon cereal. Serial sometimes gives me that kind of the protein cereal. Um, and just, I keep ice cream out of the house. That's, uh, that keeps me in shape, man.

That's the difference maker for me. I've got little kids, so it's, well, not little, but the kids that like to snack, dear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, and then the other thing, too, is with the GLP1, you can always go back on if you start to feel like you're coming back. And so it doesn't have to be like, I'm off, you're like, I'm off. And if I feel like, oh, I'm going, then I'll get back on for a little while and then restart this whole process. So that's something else to consider. How low of a dose have you got down to?

Do you know what the dosage is? It's like a fourth. It was up, I mean, they do different units and whatnot, but it's basically a fourth of what I peaked out at. And the peak was almost too strong for me. It was super effective. Like, it's crazy. The first time I took it, like, I literally forgot to eat for hours. Like, you're just, it doesn't even cross your mind.

So, and then here's the other thing, too, Warren. If you want, you can work with somebody who's going to work you through a controlled reverse diet through this process. And that's just really helpful, safe. guard. Just kind of like, you know, coaching you through this process of coming off the GLP1, doing a reverse diet, moving into not having the GLP1. And a coach could help you that. It would probably be a six-month process. So if that's something that you'll be open to, I could have someone call you. But again, you have that, you know, we've worked with a lot of people now who've come off. And I'd say a significant minority will have to go back on for a short

period and kind of restart. It's not a big deal. You just go back on for a few months, then you come back off with a, you know, step-down process. But your best bet is, of course, working with someone through what it'll be, because that's the best thing you want to do. You want to leverage this to a reverse diet. And what will happen if we do the reverse diet right,

Warren, is you're going to just build muscle. Yeah, yeah. You're just going to build muscle now. So you're just going to get strong and build muscle and you're going to stay lean. Yeah, yeah. Your calorie intake can definitely go up. You'll probably get around 3,300 calories.

Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And you'll put it right away. You'll inch your way up to that. And then you'll probably hover around a 3,000, 3,200, lean like you are, but you'll probably weigh about 1, 78, maybe 180.

Yeah, 10 pounds of lean body. Yeah, yeah. That's what you'll happen, you know. Especially if you keep any control. I feel like I think it older too, like I'll get little shoulder pains or whatever, you know, doing some lifting and whatnot. That's a programming thing. Yeah, that's, that's, to Salas point about having a coach,

this is a kind of cool part, too, about having a coach is as you communicate this stuff, we would change your programming. They can weave you through a lot. Yeah. It's not because you're getting too strong. building too much muscles. Just a programming issue. Yeah, just a change the program. Yeah, just a different focus.

But, man, hell of a job. Hell of a job, bro. Yeah, man. I think Adam, I think is your, I'm not sure who's the Z press. Who likes the Z press. Yeah, yeah. I'm the only guy that does it at the gym.

And I really feel like it, like, made my shoulders just pop. Yep. Huge. And I appreciate that. Like, if nobody else does it and your guys are saying to do it, I must fall to it. Yeah, yeah, bro. What an inspiration.

Do you want, do you want one of our coaches to call? you to talk to you about scaling this. That'd be fine. All right. I'll have somebody reach out to. Are you local, by the way? Would you be in person or virtual? Are you far from us?

We're up in San Jose area. He's San Diego. I'm down in San Diego. All right. So it'll be virtual. It's okay, though. You're already consistent. No, no.

I hope you join the family, dude. I'd love to see you go through this whole journey. He done such a great job. Yeah, great before and after. Yeah. Is there any other maps program you would recommend to like, to make it look better? Yeah. So when the coach calls you, whether you work with them or not,

I'll inform them to send you the program they think is most ideal. So they'll be able to ask you more questions and figure it out. I would probably recommend symmetry, but we'll see if they agree because they're going to spend some more time with you. Yeah, they can assess. Okay. Cool. If you guys ever need a topic for another show,

all the younger kids at the gym, you know, on their phone, talking in the equipment, man, it's a, I guess you guys probably don't do with that because you've got, you know,

we see it, though, occasionally, yeah, we go in there and we see it. It's wild. It's, yeah,

to see. So I saw my thing. Yeah. Just put the phone in the bag and hit it hard. Oh, it's ridiculous. The tripods I see in the gym. You're killing it, Warren. Yeah, good job.

I'm excited. I see your next three to six months, brother. All right. Can't wait to hear the next set of programming. Thank you, gentlemen. You got it, man. Thank you. It's been an honor.

Thank you very much. That's the right. What a, what a cool inspiration right there. I hope I look like that at 54. And I know our editors are going to put these before and afters in there. So what you'll sometimes see what the GOP one is weight loss. And they look. smaller, but they're kind of skinny fat.

Right. He got leaner. There's a body composition change, and he's got muscle. You don't even have to, I didn't have to ask him. That's right. He did. I knew he did it right. Because I was waiting to see, like, what he looked like from it. Because using a JLP1 and losing 70 pounds.

Yeah. Just like he said, it wasn't hard to not. He was like, I forgot. I remember when I, when we did that experiment where I did it. And we went that day. I was like, holy shit. All day. I didn't even remember. remember to eat, I have no appetite at all. So it's not hard to lose weight. What is hard is to get rid of those cravings, not want to eat, but then still have the discipline to go after.

To eat and fuel your body and then to train the appropriate amount to where you actually could, like, what a great, great, great example of how powerful and useful a GLP one. And then it's done properly. So cool. That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at Mind Pump.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin

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