Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2786: The 5 "Good" Reasons to Do Cardio (Most People Get This Wrong)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we got to coach people on air. People called in and we helped them out with their health and fitness.

Starting point is 00:00:24 And we can help you out too, by the way, if you want to be in an episode like that, send your question to nplivecaller.com. Now that segment was after the intro. Today's intro was 54 minutes long. It's where we talk about fat loss, and muscle gain, current events, family life, that kind of stuff. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors.

Starting point is 00:00:40 The first one is dose. I talked about their cholesterol product. So you drink two ounces a day. And in a clinical study, over 90% of the participants saw an improvement in their LDL, in their cholesterol, the triglycerides.

Starting point is 00:00:55 So it actually works. It's all natural. If you need to improve your blood lipids, you can try this before going to a prescription. Go to dose daily.com forward slash mind pump. The discount code is mind pump. That I get you 25% off. This episode is also brought to by Jouv. Red Light Therapy that works.

Starting point is 00:01:13 Studies show that red light therapy. Well, it's got lots of benefits. Regrows hair. It's good for your skin. Makes it look younger within a few applications. Builds muscle. Gives you a better pump. Red light therapy works.

Starting point is 00:01:27 Unfortunately, a lot of the products out there are crappy. They don't have the right wavelength or power. J-O-O-V-V-R-G-O-V-V-com. Go to juve.com. That's J-O-O-V-V-V-F-V-Fourg, use the code mine pump, get $50 off. We also have a brand-new sale in February. It's the couples bundle.

Starting point is 00:01:44 This is MAPS aesthetic, MAPS-Hit, MAPS muscle mommy, and the no-BS six-pack formula. All of those in the couples bundle normally would cost you almost $500. But right now you can get all those for $119. go to mp valentine.com and sign up all right here comes a show t-shirt time and it's t-shirt time oh shit dog you know it's my favorite time in a week two winners for apple podcasts no winners for Facebook the Apple podcast winners are

Starting point is 00:02:16 Jared B LSU and madam S B both of you are winners in the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpump store.com.

Starting point is 00:02:40 That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Cardiovascular training. It's a form of exercise with its own benefits. Sometimes people do it for the wrong reasons, but if you do it for the right reasons, you're likely to do it the right way and reap incredible benefits.

Starting point is 00:02:55 We're talking about the five good reasons why you should do cardio. And then later on we'll talk about some of the terrible reasons why people do cardio. Let's get to it. Here they are. Promote cardio. There are none. I'm just kidding. Everybody gets all upset.

Starting point is 00:03:09 You just pump up that myth about us that we're anti-cardio. No, I mean, I'm going to open. I also want to say this. Like all forms of exercise, if applied appropriately, have benefits. Exercise and activity in general is just good for you. So long as it's applied appropriate. but different forms of exercise have their own unique benefits. So the way I'd like to explain it, or the way I've explained it in the past,

Starting point is 00:03:34 it's like you have a toolbox and you open up the toolbox and you have a screwdriver and a hammer and a saw. And, you know, I could use, you know, a hammer to try and break a piece of wood in half, but it'd be better off if I use a saw, right? So it's important to know the tool and what it's good for. Yeah. And then if you approach it like that, you'll get the best benefit. If you do it for the wrong reasons, you tend to miss out on.

Starting point is 00:03:59 Well, at the end of the day, it's always the body adapts and responds best to specificity. Yes. And so if you're looking at this, like, what is my intention going in to my training? And, you know, this exercise specifically, what are the benefits of it? What can I squeeze out and maximize the most to get that kind of potential? But, you know, cardio itself has benefits. You just have to know exactly, like, what you're going in. to it four.

Starting point is 00:04:26 Could you say or would you say that any and all stresses that induce adaptations are a good thing? If the adaptations are to make you more resilient, yes, yes, absolutely. You could have negative adaptations to trauma, you know, and stresses. But you're right. If it's an adaptation that makes you more resilient, if it's a good adaptation, we're getting real specific now. But generally speaking, I'd say that's correct.

Starting point is 00:04:53 Yeah, that's why I just framed it that way. is like you could potentially because I think that's the thing that we always have to understand that about exercise because obviously all exercise can be good. Yes. But it's not good in isolated. It's good because it's a stress that tends to have a positive adaptation attached to it. Yes. Tends to also is key word there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:19 Because we, but we have to look at exercise from that framework. It's not that it by itself is. good. It's what it induces that typically is good. And when used appropriately to your tool point, can be really good. But when used improperly, but when used improperly can be not good. Yeah. I mean, you could, you could exercise so improperly you hurt yourself. Yeah. Or you beat yourself up. Or you induce no changes because you're not, it's not intense enough, for example. So, all right, let's talk about cardio and like the five, you know, good reasons to do cardio. And the reasons will motivate the application.

Starting point is 00:05:57 What I mean by that is if you do forms of exercise for the right reasons, then you tend to perform that type of exercise properly because you're aiming it in the right direction. Okay, so the number one reason that you would want to do cardio is for endurance. It's a great way to build endurance. Sure.

Starting point is 00:06:15 It's one of the best ways to build cardiovascular endurance. Like you want to be able to run, you want to be able to swim, you want to be able to play for long periods of time with your kids at the park. Like you're going to need some cardiovascular endurance. And cardio is a great way to build endurance. If fatigue is a major factor for you doing any kind of movement, you know, like focusing

Starting point is 00:06:35 on cardiovascular type training is really going to be a massive benefit for you going forward to then in any other pursuit after that. It's like, you know, now we can eliminate that as a major factor. Fatigue is a pretty big barrier for you. Pointed in the right direction, though. Who brought up, which one of you said specificity? Was it you just? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:55 So because and to your kind of like, if you want to get really good at hiking up hills, hiking up hills is the way you should. That would probably be the best form of course. Right. If you want to get really good at playing soccer, then you should play soccer. If you want to get good at running long distances, then run, like. Then that's what you practice. So I think that's also important to. Totally.

Starting point is 00:07:19 To nail down here is like if endurance is what we're after, okay, then. The next layer to that is what kind of endurance am I after? And then that's how I apply cardio. Now, there is general endurance that you'll build, that being said. If you just want to get overall better endurance and stamina just for everyday life, then you may choose the form of cardio that you enjoy the most. That's the safest for you that you could perform the best. So there is general, right?

Starting point is 00:07:48 General overall fitness, just like you could build general strength. Like a foundation of it. That's right. That's right. So you want endurance, again, when somebody says, I want more endurance and stamina, cardio is one of the tools I'm going to use, one of the first tools I'm going to use. Okay, let's use that actually. Because if someone came to you and said, I just want general endurance.

Starting point is 00:08:07 I'm not trying to play soccer. I just, I don't want to have shortness of breath when I'm going up the stairs. Yes. And so when I think of that, the way I think I would probably apply cardio to that person, person, like as far as the tools inside of a gym, would be like a steep incline power walk. Sure. I mean, a steep incline power walk is going to elevate the heart rate in a way that is going to build some stamina endurance.

Starting point is 00:08:36 It's safe for most people. You can get to that specificity and emulate it, the better. And it's challenging enough that, you know, walk around and playing with your kids and doing stuff like that is it's going to cover those bases really level. I would not have you sprint on the treadmill for. 20 minutes or whatever at a time. That, I would, I would prefer to put that client on, like I said,

Starting point is 00:08:59 the steep incline power walk. Well, I mean, sprinting is going to inappropriate. If somebody says I get gassed going up the stairs, we're not sprinting. That's not where we're going to start. That's my point, though, because people will start with running. Maybe I should have said sprinting. Just running. People would say, I'm going to go run

Starting point is 00:09:15 and I'm going to run as long as hard as I can and then try and improve that. It's like, well, we could also put that treadmill on a 11 incline and walk at speed 3 to 4 and watch that heart rate get up. Treadmill walking or uphill walking or bike were my favorite forms of, you know, let's get started with cardio forms of cardio. Yeah. Because they're safe.

Starting point is 00:09:39 And I want general endurance. They don't require tons of skill. The risk of injury is very low in comparison. Low impact. That's right. That's right. So those would be the ones I would pick. But again, you want endurance.

Starting point is 00:09:50 Cardio style training is going to be great. Next step is you love doing it. I never like to discourage somebody who's found a form of activity that they love. Because the biggest challenge with exercise is not the results. The biggest challenge is consistency, period, end of story. And so if somebody's like, I love rowing. I love rowing. Well, keep doing it.

Starting point is 00:10:17 That's the form of cardio you're going to do. Keep doing it. I love running outside. Like, are you going to tell me to stop doing it? No, no, I want you to keep doing it because you love it. I love salsa dancing. I had clients that would tell me, I actually had this one client who she's like, I want, you know, I want to keep working on my endurance.

Starting point is 00:10:35 I said, well, what do you like doing? She's like, well, does salsa dancing count? I said, well, yeah. She's like, well, I love doing that. I'll do that with my husband. So go do more of it. She's so excited that that was the form of cardio that I recommend it. So I'm going to do my best to try and challenge every point that you bring up just to make people

Starting point is 00:10:49 think even like deeper sometimes. In my experience, someone who brings up salsa dancing, their love for basketball or a, you know, swimming that they did their whole life. They love like easily. That's normally like, oh, yes, keep going, doing that. I've had a lot of clients that claim to love running.

Starting point is 00:11:12 And many times we're running away from something. Of course. Or needed a marathon in order to get them motivated to burn calories to lose weight. But would say, I love to run. And so I would challenge the person that said that to make sure that it's a true passion of yours that you would do regardless of where your fitness goals are at, body fat percentage, aesthetics and all those things.

Starting point is 00:11:38 You like doing it for the sake of doing it. That's right. Independent of that, I think is so important. Totally. And important to, as the client, to peer into that. because would you guys not agree that you've had a lot of clients who said, I love to run. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:53 Yeah. And it's like, well, do you really love to run? Or is this been the thing that you always do to try and get in shape? Well, the underlying thing might be like keeping my body at this size or whatever. You know, there's something else that's like. Right. Yeah. Like all the time, whenever I'm running, I can keep myself at this weight.

Starting point is 00:12:09 And so I've learned to love that thing versus like, do you really love it? And I think it's a very good, I'm glad you brought the salsa dancing because that's a very, clear difference. The person who goes salsa dancing, I'm going salsa dancing so I can lose 15 pounds. Usually they do it because they like. They do it because they love to dance. Or the person who's like, I'm going to pick up some ball because they play ball their whole life. They love to do that versus the person who is, who chooses to go run because that's when I was in the best shape of my life. Because I like to be skinny. Yes. Yes. Difference. No, that's why the asterix

Starting point is 00:12:37 of appropriate has to be in there. So if it's appropriately applied, but people abuse exercise. We know that. So lots of people will say they love the abuse when in reality a good coach will sniff that out for sure. Next, you want good health. So all forms of activity, again, applied appropriately, will improve your health. But each form of activity is unique in how it improves health. We've talked at nauseam of the benefits of strength training. And strength training across the board, if you had to pick a form of exercise

Starting point is 00:13:09 in the context of modern life, especially when you throw aging in there, if you had to pick one, it's the best one. But cardio is great for other things. Like if you're trying to change your blood lipid levels, you want to lower your LDL, raise your HDL, maybe change a particle size of your LDL, you know, change your triglycerides. Cardiovascular activity tends to have a better approach.

Starting point is 00:13:31 And if you're looking for good overall health and you like to work out and you approach it the right way, cardio is going to be a part of this. So a good routine for someone who's like, I just like good health and longevity. Cardio is going to be a part of the mix. I think especially too, if it's difficult with your everyday life schedule to, like, have movement opportunities and you kind of need to schedule that a little bit more. I think cardio fits in that category just to broaden your amount and volume of movement.

Starting point is 00:14:01 That's right. And also, when we're talking about good health, we also mean the ability to continue doing certain activities throughout your whole life. So what I mean by that is, like, we'll use running as an example. you know, you like to run, you enjoy it, you do it in your 20s, you approach it appropriately, you do in your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, your 60s, you'll never lose the ability to run. If you stop running, even if you're fit, even if you work out otherwise, if you stop doing that activity, you'll actually lose the ability to do it well. And this is, I mean, look, I could take a very fit person in the gym who does, you know,

Starting point is 00:14:36 cardio on a bike, who strength trains, who never runs, and you have them run. and although they have the endurance and stamina, they have bad technique and the skill of running, their body's actually forgotten. So good health also means the ability to do all these things that I want to continue doing, and you need to practice them. Otherwise, your body prunes them away.

Starting point is 00:14:54 Actually gets rid of the ability to do that. So again, doing my best to try and challenge all these great points and to think the full picture of this, many times get a client who is not in the best place metabolically. and they say they want to start running because they want good health. They've heard someone like Sal's say that this is a great goal to have. I may not have run or do cardio, I should say, at the beginning, because I want to build muscle, build their metabolism before I introduce that.

Starting point is 00:15:27 And so you also don't want to take someone who's frail and start them out with lots of cardio. You want to strengthen them a little first. Right, which so. It would be resilient for that. stress. And you will hear this a lot from somebody who just got back from the doctor who've told them all their markers are all off and they need to get healthy or is recently motivated to become healthy and they're carrying all this extra body fat on them. And so, okay, that person, it seems you would think like cardio would be a good thing. But it will be a part of their routine, just not at first. At first, I'm going to really focus on building muscle, building a metastal exercise. That's right. That's right. That's right. And so, again, this is where someone could get this message misconstrued is that they hear, oh, yeah, okay, well, that's me. I want to be a healthy person.

Starting point is 00:16:17 And so let me add cardio also. But maybe I don't have you where I want you yet strengthen metabolically before I would do something like that. 100%. Next up, this is a good point, everybody. I'm about to make here. It sounds silly, but it's a good point. I fall in this category, which is it gets you to go outside.

Starting point is 00:16:34 There's a lot of gym rats. Okay, that's a real term. A gym rat is a. fitness person that lives in the gym. Yeah. And they don't go outside. They never go outside. They don't go outside unless they're getting to their car.

Starting point is 00:16:45 Yeah. This easily could be me. Now, I have kids and my kids get me to go outside. But if I didn't have kids, or if my kids, my little ones were older, I would almost never do lots of stuff outside. I would do all my exercise indoors because I love the gym. Going outside is good for you. It's beneficial to get in the fresh air and the sun.

Starting point is 00:17:06 And for some people, like, car. type activity, like getting on your bike, riding around, going on long walks, on hikes. It's the one thing that gets to go outside. And I think that's a great reason. I absolutely. I actually think of all the points, this is the most important one, unless you have a job that requires you do labor outside, which is a small percentage of the population. And I think that we are more and more trapped inside under these, you know, blue lights where we're sitting in front of blue screens and sedentary. And I think that just the idea of getting outside and moving in fresh air,

Starting point is 00:17:49 fresh sunlight, nature is probably the best argument of all the things that you brought up in my opinion. Especially for guys like us. I would say Justin's probably the most likely to do stuff outside, but you and I are like gym rats. We would do all of our workouts inside. And maybe that's why I feel so passionate about this is. But like it gets you.

Starting point is 00:18:08 go out. It hits home for myself personally. It was something that I became more aware of as I gotten older. And in the past, I would never have done this. And it was like so anti the outdoor run or hike or thing as a young guy. I was so much more the gym rat where I have found in my, you know, late 30s to 40s, sometimes I don't make it even to the gym, but I'll make a point to go for a nice walk with my wife. And so I think that that has true. When you think it when you say your goal is health, it has so many other benefits. Sure, it's not the fastest way to build 10 pounds of muscle or burn 10 pounds of body fat. But when you think of general health, it's probably one of the greatest arguments for that.

Starting point is 00:18:54 Yes, absolutely. And then lastly, it encourages you and helps you to connect with others. For some people, outdoor cardio or cardiovascular type activities like sports. Yeah. Structured activity. This is how they socialize. Yeah. This is how they connect to other people. I know a lot of dads like this.

Starting point is 00:19:13 I know a lot of dads that have... This is me, dude. This is... Okay. I have to, like, have something. If I'm going to hang out, I'm not going to sit down inside and talk. It's horrible, dude.

Starting point is 00:19:24 That's what you do for work. No, we're outside and we're doing something. I'm either playing, you know, whatever it is, like racquetball or, you know, shooting hoops or we're walking or we're... Whatever. Whatever it is, like, I'm like, I'll meet you outside.

Starting point is 00:19:40 We're at the beach or something. Just because it's like, for me, like, I just crave movement. And I crave, like, getting that for my body. There's so many benefits to it. But, like, also interacting with people just makes it so much better. Isn't there a viral app right now that's going on that's... When you meet up with people? Yeah, for a walk.

Starting point is 00:19:59 It's like it was like the dog walking version. I've heard of it. Where people can connect just to... I think kids, animals, you've got to get them all outside. I know. dads where this is the only, this is when they get to hang out with other people is when they, on the weekend, go play some sport or do something with their buddies. I know a lot of moms, stay at home moms who feel so isolated, they're at home with their

Starting point is 00:20:19 kids. But then when they meet with other moms is when they get the kids in the stroller and they all go for walks at the park. And really it's about doing the walk or doing the workout, but they get to connect and be with other people. And that's super important for health, everybody. Yeah. The data on that is very clear.

Starting point is 00:20:34 And again, I think these last two have become more important in the last few decades. I think we've become more connected online, but more isolated. But more isolated than in-person stuff. And so I think these two are probably the best arguments for. Now, what's the worst reason to do cardio? What's the one that? Well, this, the main reason why they'll do it. Shave body fat.

Starting point is 00:20:56 Yeah, lose body fat. Yeah. Will you lose some body fat with cardio? Yeah. Are there better ways to do it? Yeah. Way better ways to do it. Cardio by itself in a calorie deficit.

Starting point is 00:21:08 causes muscle loss and fat loss, causes a negative adaptation with the metabolism, tends to cause plateaus. Strength training will preserve muscle or build muscle as you lose body fat. It's a better form of exercise for that. The other one is aesthetics, which is kind of long as like, I want to look better. Better ways to do that. Strength training, you can sculpt your body the way you want. Cardio, you just kind of lose overall weight.

Starting point is 00:21:32 And again, you can lose muscle or you often do. And again, this is why, if that's your main reason for exercising, if you're The main reason is I want fat loss and aesthetics, and I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to working out. Cardio's indiscriminate. It's not that specific. That's right. I only got a couple days a week that I can dedicate to exercise. I want fat loss.

Starting point is 00:21:50 The form of exercise to me doesn't matter. I just want to do what's effective, and fat loss is number one. Then don't pick cardio. Pick strength training. This is why you've heard us for so many years rail on cardio is because we know that 90% of the people that came to us, this was the goal. This was the big button. 90% of the people come for fat loss

Starting point is 00:22:12 or changing the way they look. I would say it's higher 95%. It's actually rare. It's very rare that you get someone who just says, I just want general health or I want to increase my vertical. Like that was so...

Starting point is 00:22:25 No, it's all fat loss. Everybody wants to lose fat. Everybody wants to look better, which is why that message that you've heard from us for someone, which is also too, and it's always the small 10% of people that have the other,

Starting point is 00:22:37 goals or are utilizing cardio appropriately are always the ones that push back at us. And it's like, you're the minority. Most people go to the gym or hire a personal trainer because they need to lose body fat or they want to lose body fat or they want to look different, i.e. build muscle or lose fat. And so because of that, you've heard this message of that we're the anti-cardio guys. And it's like, we're the anti-do cardio for the wrong reason, guys. Yeah, that's right. It's the wrong tool for the job that you want. If it was the right tool for the job, we would never tell, we would never

Starting point is 00:23:10 let a client hire us and be like, I want to build endurance or I want to get good at this sport and be like, no cardio for you. We're just hitting weights. It would never happen. That's ridiculous. That's such a small percentage of people that come to a trainer. Most people come because they want to look different. And so, cardio, I think, is a terrible tool

Starting point is 00:23:26 for that. And it doesn't mean it can't be utilized at some point. But it's, for the main part of the job, the sculpting, the building, the metabolism, the losing the body, fat, it's a terrible tool. That's right. All right. I got to bring something up that I was, I'm really impressed with this company. When we work with, it's dose. And they have a cholesterol product. So for people aren't familiar, it's like a bottle. It's liquid. That I used to think you'd drink whole thing. I'm so glad you didn't do that. You pour a serving. I think it's two ounces.

Starting point is 00:23:55 You drink it and you take it daily. Here's why I'm impressed. They fund, and I'll pull it up, they fund and do their own clinical trials. Supplement companies don't do this. Supplement companies will say this study That's expensive That shows this on an ingredient And then this other study shows Dose took their Actually did their own clinical trials

Starting point is 00:24:15 So they can make claims Right and here's what they found It's a 90-day clinical study People using People using the dose Or compounds that were in dose Showed 95% of them Had an improvement in their LDL

Starting point is 00:24:29 90% of them had an improvement in triglycerides 81% of them had an improvement in their total cholesterol. Can I comment just on how powerful of a study that is, too, is to, to, it wasn't a survey of people that 95% of people said, they felt better. No, they reported.

Starting point is 00:24:49 These are actual markers, blood markers that were measured before that they went and did that, and they saw that much improvement. Everybody got a positive result. Almost everybody. That's crazy. That's awesome. Yeah. Now, the reason, this is for me, more important than ever.

Starting point is 00:25:03 now, and I'll tell you guys why. So I have my normal blood lipid panel. So total cholesterol, HDL, LDL, triglycerides. It's always great. In fact, I'm like, I'm invincible. Like, nothing I can do will affect my blood lipids in a bad way. But I've never done a study that differentiates particles. I've never done that.

Starting point is 00:25:25 So I'm trying to, I'm getting myself set up with one. And so now, because you guys know me, I worry about everything. So now I'm like, oh, I hope it comes back. Okay. Because I'm also going to do a study that's going to look at my arteries to see how clean and clear they are. And I got motivated because I was talking to my buddy, he's an ER doctor, not fit and healthy guy. And he said he got that done. And he was surprised to see the result.

Starting point is 00:25:46 So he had to change some things, even though he was healthy. So I'm like, ooh, I've never done that. So I'm going to take a look. And the thing that we did with Pernouva, that wouldn't pick it. That does not. That looks at your heart muscle. And if there's any enlargement or anything like that, which I don't have any, none of us did. But it doesn't look at your arteries.

Starting point is 00:26:03 It doesn't look to see how block they are. I thought you were 100%. I thought we were getting all of them. I know. So what's the test look different? That was like a crazy, full-on. So a blood test. So a blood test will tell them.

Starting point is 00:26:17 So you can distinguish the particle size. Yes. Yeah, they differentiate the particle size. So you could see. Well, what about the arteries? What kind of scan or test will that be? I think it's a CT scan. It's a CT scan.

Starting point is 00:26:28 So they actually look at the arteries themselves. And so I know somebody, I know someone else. Fit and healthy. Okay? He was in his 50s. Cool. Worked out. Did everything right?

Starting point is 00:26:37 Came back. 75% blockage. What would you? And he's like, what? So he had to change his eating habits. Added other forms of exercise. And over a couple years, got it down to 40%. Some kind of genetic polymorphism?

Starting point is 00:26:50 Yes. Yes. Okay. So it's less likely something he was doing. Well, whatever he was doing didn't work with his genetics apparently. Because he was fit and healthy. He wasn't overweight. He was active.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Wow. Came back. 75% which is, you know. This isn't some typical. Which, so I'm like curious, right? I want to see. I want to see. He's an anomaly.

Starting point is 00:27:11 I mean, I mean, here's, okay. Typical cell. I'm going to, I'm going to calm everybody down. If your family line includes lots of heart attacks and heart disease, you look into it. You definitely want to look into it. All the means, yeah. I have none.

Starting point is 00:27:23 That doesn't help me. Huh? My dad had blockages and things. Oh, yeah. And I don't have, nobody in my family gets a heart attack or anything like that. So, but I'm going to go. check anyway. But I love that dose has a natural product

Starting point is 00:27:37 that has been shown to actually have positive effects. So I'm super motivated to use it. It's funny, the older I get, the more interested I am in health supplements, not just like muscle building supplements. That's the shift that you've been in. You've gone from... This is good for my organs. Does it make your biceps bigger? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:27:56 But I still have them. That's cool. Speaking of biceps, dude, I I did today. I love old school exercises that fall out of favor that people just stop doing. Here's why I got motivated.

Starting point is 00:28:10 You just resurrect them. Here's why I got motivated. So yesterday I did a reaction video. So Josh does some of our social media. You're comparing our arms. No, no. He was, he had a reaction video where

Starting point is 00:28:23 it was Mike Israelel talking about leg extensions. And at first, when it popped up, I'm like, great. Oh, great. You sit you up. No. Mike Izra tells around the same page.

Starting point is 00:28:33 He did? He's like, leg extension. He's like, yeah, they're fine. He goes, but they're not a big deal, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, you know what's better? Sissy squats. Oh, yeah. He was promoting Sissy squads.

Starting point is 00:28:43 Good, man. Which I remember, we're not on an island. I mean, 10 years ago, we brought it up, nobody. Nobody. Not only that, but we just recently ranked exercises and we got this, all this pushback over leg extensions. Like, get out of here for a leg developer. I started thinking about, I started thinking about, like, old school exercises that nobody

Starting point is 00:28:59 does anymore. Yeah. And I'm going to save one. I know you did them before Adam. Remember 21s for myself? Oh, of course. Yeah, I did. I did those.

Starting point is 00:29:05 Yeah, dude. So I did them today in the gym. It's great. Yeah. I mean, so for people who don't know what 21s are is you start at the bottom. It's a bellbell curl. You start at the bottom. You come up halfway for seven reps.

Starting point is 00:29:17 Then the next, then you go up all the way and you come down halfway for seven reps. Yeah. And then you do seven full reps. Yeah. And so as a young kid, I did him because body blows in them. Yeah. Now, experience. He's crazy pump.

Starting point is 00:29:30 Understands. I'm like. I know why these are valuable. It's including an isometric hold in different positions throughout the whole left. It's not just doing a bunch of curls. It's like I have to pause and then pause. You know the last. And it was a great feel.

Starting point is 00:29:42 The last time I did an arm thing like that day was, who was it on our show? I want to give credit to the doctor that we had, a bodybuilder doctor guy that we had a long time ago. This is a long before Israel, Tell. And he introduced clusters to me. Oh, cluster sets. And I did those after he left. And I went, whoa, that's great. Cool. I hadn't done cluster sets, at least not appropriately. And I forget what the protocol was.

Starting point is 00:30:09 Well, you go and then you rest like 15 seconds. Yes. Squeeze out a couple more. Yes. Because you can do a significantly higher weight than you would do for something that high of repetitions. And just that little 15 second rest, and the pump that I got from it was just. Surprising how you can recover. Yeah. Just a little bit. Oh, man. What a, what a great. You know, also, though in line with that talk, like, I'm, I'm not there right now. Like, you're at a... It would be a waste of time for you to do. Yes. So, yes. So it's, like, so important to talk about that because I know as a young guy, I hear this.

Starting point is 00:30:45 And I'm like, oh, this is what I'm missing. You know what I'm saying? And then I'm skipping out on, like, some of the fundamentals. And it's like, I'm not even in a rhythm enough. I'd say, I'm in a good rhythm right now. I'm on two months or so, give or take of consistency and on diet training. all the things, but I'm so back at baby fundamental phase. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:31:06 Well, even if you asked me, I never miss workouts. How, when am I going to do 21s again? I'm not going to be doing it every time. You know what the relevance is funny that you mentioned. I did do 21s, but I immediately think of things, stupid things I did that were like, it was more like barbell complexes. Oh, right? Would you stack them all, you know, back to back to back? And it was, you know, that's sort of the, the performance end of, you know, one of my stupid. One of my favorite things to do back, I don't

Starting point is 00:31:31 work out with anybody, but back in the day, every once in a while, I'd grab one of my trainers or my fitness managers when I was managing. Hand off, hand off back and forth. The best, I used to love that, dude. That's like, I do as many as I can do, and I hand it to you. And we just go back and forth until we die. Until we die.

Starting point is 00:31:47 And it's like, it's just fun. You know, it's like you go beat up your buddy. Honestly, okay, that is the, to me, that's the most valuable part of it for someone who's been training as long as you have and consistent as you have is like, is that part? It's like, it's not, the bedrock or the foundation

Starting point is 00:32:03 to what you do and it's not going to put an inch on your arms or any of the stuff that all the muscle magazines would sell you on. You know, because you know what I did is I remember making a mistake as a kid is like, oh, you read it in the magazine or you hear it and then now that you add all, you do all the high

Starting point is 00:32:18 or that's the thing I do all the time and it's just like, it's kind of just seeing where you can tolerate, you know, in the beginning, there's a lot of like discovery in that and exploration. And so I feel like there's, I don't know, I try not to deter that too much, especially with, like, young athletes and people that they're trying to figure out where their line is. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:37 And so, like, doing some techniques like that, it helps to kind of gauge that for a bit. What's the most insane, like, obviously inappropriate routine that you've ever done for yourself, like fitness wise or anything? Like, what's the craziest? I've done some of the crazy shit, of course you have. But can you think of? I have in my head some of the craziest things I did. Like, there was a period of time there where I was, like, I was like, I was like, you know. Like, you know what?

Starting point is 00:33:02 I've never done a double split routine. And so I did a full on, like Arnold Schwarzenegger style, you hit in the AM and the PM, you come back. And it's six days a week. And I did it for as long as I could until the signs of overtraining were so obvious. We did like a two hour weight training, like heavy intense power cleans, squat, you know, bench, over everything in the morning. and then we did practice, you know, the middle of the day. And then we did practice in the evening. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:35 And we did that for at least like two weeks. Oh, my God, bro. So much. Yeah, I was in, I remember just having to go into the ice bath just to maintain my body. I would, I would say the same thing that you did. In fact, this was also during the time, too, where we would, I got up, I was motivated with one of my other trainer buddies that we were like early 20s. and we did this double split routine.

Starting point is 00:34:00 And we would train like five, six in the morning really hard to. And then I go in the midday and just lay in my bed, right? Eat a big, big old meal. Recovery. Yeah, just lay there for like four hours. Not even sleepy, just laying there, you know what I'm saying? Try not to move, you know what I'm saying? So I can be ready for my eight o'clock workout where we would train hard again.

Starting point is 00:34:16 The reason why that's so memorable to me and I'd say it's so inappropriate is I remember, as a Capone-a-key, a leg day so hard and bad that I stepped off the curb and I fell. Yeah. My legs were so destroyed that stepping off the curve was enough. I literally fell on the ground. And I went, this is, you know, and of course we're like, yeah, that was a good one. You know what's fun? You know what it's like, oh.

Starting point is 00:34:38 Looking back, it was stupid. It was crazy. Thank God it. It hurt myself. But there was a, there was a fun in that. Yeah. There was fun with being naive. Well, the most, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:34:49 Like, we were clueless. It was just, it was like, you talk to your buddy and you're like, so psych. I can't move. Oh, bro. We would talk with, like, we're going to do this thing. I think we're going to work out four hours. valuable part about it because and I think about like kind of the the era we're in right now we're in this really interesting you know information era and there's a lot of really young guys with a lot of like read all the studies and have all the sciences but like we also did a lot of the stupid stuff for a long time and so that the ability to speak from that experience and under the mindset so that's the most valuable part to me was like I look back and there's obviously these regrets of like God if I would have just simplified my routines.

Starting point is 00:35:28 But because I didn't, and I did so much the wrong way for so long. It humbles you, but I feel like I could read that with somebody who never did that. Yeah. You're like, oh, you just stayed in the books and did everything like, you know, perfect. Yeah, so that's what I mean. I think it gives you another level of communication that that person can't give. Yes. Because not only was I dumb enough and crazy enough to do it, I also understood what was going

Starting point is 00:35:56 through my mind during that time. and how I felt and how I thought. And, like, you know, it's easier to be able to convince that person because I've been there than to just study my way, you know, give you the studies. Yeah, exactly. And so when I think of it, when I think back to those days, no regrets. I think that I go, it was, if, who would have known we would be on a podcast. Exploration discovery. Yeah, gave all of us that, that ability to communicate and connect to somebody who probably thinks that's a good idea.

Starting point is 00:36:25 And so I think that part of it. I know. And looking back, I've told this story so many times. His name was Joe. He was a family friend, chiropractor, bodybuilder, at the time, biggest dude I ever seen. And I mustered up the courage. I was probably 15 years old to take him aside and ask him like, how did you get so big? And he looked at me like, he's dead in the eyes. He goes, all right, here's what you do. You lift weights three days a week, full body. Do one exercise per body part and eat a lot of chicken. Your body weight and protein. Eat a lot of eggs. Eat a lot of milk. A lot of tuna fish. and then go to bed at 9 o'clock every night

Starting point is 00:36:58 and wake up at 6 or 7 a.m. every day. And I remember leaving that conversation like, he won't tell me. He just thinks I'm a kid. He just thinks I'm a kid. He was giving me the best advice all time. That's not what I read my muscle back. Dude, the best advice ever.

Starting point is 00:37:13 I mean, I think you, you are so lucky and blessed that you got the bodybuilder or the power lifter guys to. At least I was doing those lifts. Yeah. I was dead lifting early. To bring you under your wing because I didn't, I didn't get that. And that I think would have really saved me a lot of time if I would have at least done that really well.

Starting point is 00:37:31 I bought into all the information of just like, oh, this is just as good or better. And like, oh, okay, this is, okay, I understand the study. I see what, okay, I'm going to just do those things because I didn't like doing the other stuff. And so I fell into that trap versus. Speaking of lifting and stuff, so I just, so I had this conversation with my wife, right? So she's been relatively consistent with her strength training now for a little while. There was a period there. It was really hard to be consistent.

Starting point is 00:37:58 But kids are older, more time. We have a great garage set up. So she's been going. And so she's also been in my faith series now quite a few times. So she's been on there together. And she brings great insight, female insight. Somebody commented underneath. Now, and it was a funny comment.

Starting point is 00:38:13 They were like, it's really hard to watch her workout with such low intensity. So she got really like, what is this person saying or whatever, right? Okay. So anyway, and it made me think for a second. I'm like, I know how strong she is. Yeah. And I know when I see her work out, she goes way lighter than she could. Now, I know why. There was a period of time there after she had our baby, the youngest, where if she went too hard, she would hurt herself. Her body just needed time to adjust. And so I'm like, she's still, she's still in that. I think she is. So I was, we worked out together a couple times. And I watched her do, I don't remember. It was like with that new row machine that we have. Yeah. And she has a quarter on there. And she's just, I'm like, add some weight.

Starting point is 00:38:54 She's like, it's fine. I'm like, no, no, add some weight. She puts tens on. I'm like, you can add like three times as much way. So she finally now is starting to push herself with, with the weight in the intensity.

Starting point is 00:39:05 Dude, she responds so fast. Like three workouts. I'm like, oh my God, look at your arms and your delts and whatever. I feel like Katrina is the same way too. We did it.

Starting point is 00:39:15 I was chairing earlier when we did a live call or that we talked about how I like give like little bits of stuff. and she's been on her kick for a while. Does she get stuck in the same way? She totally does. She totally does. And, you know, it just takes one workout with me where I'm like, you could throw another 25 on there. You're fine.

Starting point is 00:39:32 No, you're fine. I'll let you know when you're like that. And then she doesn't. She's like, uh, and she'll tell me. She's just like message received. I knew I wasn't, I could be. There's more. There's a lot more.

Starting point is 00:39:41 I could be pushing. Which is so, to me, my female clients, that was always to be. Always. Very good with form, cautious. Guys was the opposite. Guys the opposite. Guys, I'm like, How many times did you have to tell him?

Starting point is 00:39:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too heavy, bro. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no. Slow it down, deeper range of motion. Come on, guy. You know what I'm saying? Like, guys, I'm always having to back off. He's very much like a guy, like, and I'm just like, relax.

Starting point is 00:40:05 You know, she doesn't want to hear it. And she doesn't want to do mobility. And so I'm like, those are the things I'm always stressing with her. With you being such the mobility guy into all that stuff that she's. Well, she hated, like, jumping and a lot of the things. When I used to, like, and I had like that athletic background. I would sneak in, you know, some of these like type of athletic moves.

Starting point is 00:40:25 And she hated those. So I'd like kind of adjust the workouts and whatnot. But yeah, she hated every time I would address any kind of like pattern dysfunction. And two, like, but still tells me, well, I feel it in my quads. I'm like, what do you mean you feel it in your quads? You know, I'd have to go through and like tell her. I'm like, look, we need to correct this. Like this the root of this is, you know, a dysfunction in the way you move.

Starting point is 00:40:52 And so I'm trying. And so it's been years for me to finally like get in there and start getting her to be disciplined with like doing priming, you know, warmups and doing it the right way. But yeah, it's, it's funny because she just wants to go hard, like super hard. And I think we kind of related with that. I just, I just introduced this is with Park City. That's literally just two weekends ago, right? We were up there. I had just introduced Katrina into assisted.

Starting point is 00:41:18 single leg dead lifts versus stability balancing. Oh, yeah. So she was next to me and I'm doing my lifts. And I know, right, she's been training for a while. So she's, she's past kind of the starter phase. She's, she's time. And I know what her goals are, right? So she's like, and she's doing, I think she's holding like a 10 pound or, you know,

Starting point is 00:41:34 maybe a 15 pound dumbbell and she's like doing single leg deadlifts like stability, right? And I go, uh, you know, you go over there and you grab that cage and you do that, you probably load that thing with like 50 pound dumbbell, right? And she's like, what do you mean? I show it to her. And she was like, of course, she went from 15. Then she went to like 30. Then she was holding a 50 pound dumbbell doing that.

Starting point is 00:41:55 And I was like, how's your butt feel now? She's like, oh, my God. I'm like, yeah. I said, I know that's your goal right. I said, what you were doing is not bad. I said, like, building good stability balance. I said, love when you get reintroduced to training again. That's a good place to start.

Starting point is 00:42:08 But you've been doing this for a while now. Load that sucker. And I'm like, you loading with a 50 pound dumbbell and balancing is going to be really hard. So go ahead and go assist yourself for that. And then she was like, oh, my God. That's awesome. No, I'm having fun because my wife's got, she's got really good, like, strength genetic. She could get really strong.

Starting point is 00:42:27 So, and she, I think she just forgot how to really push it. So, and now because I train my daughter and my niece, she'll pop in and will work out. And it's cool because I see that that pushes her because they'll use a weight. And, of course, she has to use more. Just let the kids know. And she's, like, way stronger than they are. Yeah, yeah. And so, especially on back exercise, she could pull like a horse.

Starting point is 00:42:47 And so to see that, and then to see her body change so rapidly, I'm like, all right, dude. Just right away. Unlocked. Yeah. It's awesome. It's so good. Anyway, oh, speaking of workouts and stuff, I wasn't to ask you, Adam, to do this because you're the most likely, you're the most consistent besides Doug with the Jew of Red Light. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:07 Okay. So remember that study I brought up a while ago where they took, I love this study, where they took people and they red lighted one leg. You make me do that? Well, no. I don't go that far. Okay, okay. You're going to be all lopsided. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:21 Well, so for people don't know, there was a study. Here. There's a couple studies where they were red light one leg. Then they'd have them train both legs. And the leg that got red light, it actually built more muscle and strength. Yeah. Which is a great, because you have a natural control. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:34 It's your, both your legs. Yeah. It's amazing. But it also increases nitric oxide. And so I would love for you to test it once. Just to see if I get a pump. Just to see if you get a better pump on one side. Huh. Okay.

Starting point is 00:43:44 And maybe pick like an easy body part, like biceps. Just red light one arm. Then go do curls and see if you notice a better pump. I mean, I would love to do that with my legs and see if I get a better pump that way and feel it. What you're making me think right now that would be really cool for people is we get a lot of people that, obviously, symmetry is one of our popular programs. And we have a lot of people that have asymmetry, right? We have this imbalance on right to left. Do you about accelerating it?

Starting point is 00:44:10 Yeah. So imagine if you are somebody who got one of those decks scans. Yeah, like a really weak left leg. And you have a really weak left leg or left arm. Like, it would be cool to like... Just make it faster. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:44:22 That's not a bad thought. And pair it with symmetry. So literally, follow symmetry. Use it on the less dominant side pre-workout and see what happens. Wow. That's interesting. I know. Well, that's what just came to mind when you were saying that.

Starting point is 00:44:35 Because that's kind of a fun way to... Well, that's the thing. When you have one side that's off, you want it to balance out. Right. And you might as well get it to balance up faster. Just bring it up. That makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't that be cool?

Starting point is 00:44:47 Do you guys have a body part that's harder to get a pump than others and one that gets a pump super easy? Do you guys have that? I think that's common for a lot of people, right? No? Not anymore. I did for sure when I was young. My back.

Starting point is 00:44:59 Like, it took me a long time to learn how to get a really good back pump. Yeah. But absolutely now I can get a crazy back pump. Yeah. But for a long time, I never knew what feeling of it. You know, it wasn't, deadlifts really made a difference for me. on getting a feeling a full back pump. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:17 I remember the day. This is how funny. I remember the day I got my first back pump. The day. I can tell you, I can tell you it was summertime. I was 16. You just got done watching Predator.

Starting point is 00:45:28 I was in my backyard. And it was the first time I did pull over super set of pull-ups. And I remember I came down and I felt my lap. Pull-over to pull-ups. Of course. Oh, yeah. So mine was the deadlift to a lap pull-down. That's a great-com.

Starting point is 00:45:44 That combination. That combination. I had never felt an entire, my entire, I felt my back from top to bottom just completely that. And, you know, this is what a great, because there's a bit of an isometric part of a deadlift, right? You're keeping your spine stabilized in that movement. Even though the, the movement isn't an isometric, consider an isometric. You're keeping yourself in this isometric position. That's so, isometric is so good to getting really connected to a part of it.

Starting point is 00:46:09 Totally. And so I think. You have to activate the hell out of everything. Yes. And so I think that was. what happened was like for the first time I did this great isometric contraction on the back with a deadlift

Starting point is 00:46:20 even though I understand that's not a isometric but that type of contraction on the back going over to a lap pull down which most people feel really good of an exercise and that pumping the lat was just huge different deadlift to pull-ups yeah well yeah same same thing that gave me the craziest

Starting point is 00:46:38 and from that point on now for me I can get a back pump super easy but nothing like delts I could get a, my delts will get so pumped, I can't move. It hurts. And that'll take me one set. It's just like, I get an instant. That wasn't one that took me longer, too.

Starting point is 00:46:53 Back, delts, and then glutes were probably the three that took the longest. But once I, once I unlocked it, are you unlocked? Justin gets glute pumps. I get pumps all over. I mean, I don't think he even knew what pump was until we started working out together. What's happening? Yeah, yeah. I just don't like it on my four.

Starting point is 00:47:14 He trained for strength for so long when he started working out with me and stuff like that. I think it was the first time he was like, I did. Honestly, I didn't even told you about that. I was like, oh, my God, I feel so like huge and wrong right now. Wrong. That's the best. This feels wrong. Well, you know, it just felt dysfunctional, you know, because you're like stiff almost.

Starting point is 00:47:33 I don't care. It's the only thing I like better. The only thing I like better than the pump because the pump is just up here. It's the best feeling it ever. The only thing I like better than that is lifting. more weight than I've ever lifted before. I just can't chase that because I'll hurt myself. So the pump is what I'll settle for.

Starting point is 00:47:50 I'm with you on that. There's nothing. The, the, the pump is such an amazing. I mean, aside from the, the aesthetic look part of it,

Starting point is 00:47:57 it's just, it's the feeling of like all, all that, the blood flowed in that area. It's like looking at your potential. You know what I mean? I can look like this? Oh,

Starting point is 00:48:06 I could get there and stay there? As a young, as a young kid, I used to always think that was like, man, if I could just, that was, I remember saying that to myself,

Starting point is 00:48:13 if I could just look like, Yeah. If I could just look like that. I did that. That's the rich guy though chasing the dollar amount. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying it? It's the same thing.

Starting point is 00:48:21 Because I know for sure when I was 20 saying that, I passed that kid up a long time ago. And I kept saying that for a long time ago. Yeah. It was my chest. The one like, substantially it would like get bigger than anything else. Yeah. Yeah. You're peck heavy for sure.

Starting point is 00:48:36 Yeah. Hey, what did you think of that? Talking about exercises and stuff like that. The reaction video, Brett Contraint, which I thought was really funny. I was going to ask. Bro, how far these reaction videos going to go? There's a reaction of a reaction. Hey, I wanted to Justin, because Justin has the more comedic personality,

Starting point is 00:48:52 to do a reaction video to that video because it was. That's what I'll do. Because initially they had me doing those. I don't know if you guys knew this, but I was just like, I don't do these. Yeah. This is not my job. See, so you should do that because I wanted you to do it,

Starting point is 00:49:04 and this is what I wanted you to do, it would be like, I have nothing to contribute to this. That's how I wanted you to do it because it was, it was Joe DeVranco reacting to another trainer who was commenting on a PR reverse lunch. And then it was Brett Contreras reacting to Joe to Frank. Frank's reaction of that reaction. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:21 And this reaction. So I wanted you to do a reaction to just like... You know, we could do. We could do one of you. I'll do one to that same video. That's right. That's what I wanted you to do that. Like, listen, you react to it and then you react to your own reaction and then react again to like 15...

Starting point is 00:49:34 What's the hell that's talking about? But I bring it up, though, because I actually thought it was a... I love... I mean, this is just highlights how much respect that we have for Joe to Franco and his, I mean, there's, I don't know, I definitely, maybe two hands, for sure, one hand, maybe two hands. I can count on, like, the trainers and coaches that I have so much respect and admiration for them. It's a smaller group than I would have thought initially. You know, as a young trainer, you look up to a bunch of coaches out there.

Starting point is 00:50:06 And then, you know, even go through that whole process, it really is like 10 people. And that's no disrespect to the good trainers that follow us. I don't want you to There's a lot of We have a lot of good trainer friends Or good trainer friends. No, like mentors. There's another level.

Starting point is 00:50:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These are the top tier. These are Mr. Miyagi's. The way that Joe, the way that Joe reacts to that video is just so good. Yeah, you could tell, I mean, he just, he knows what he's talking about,

Starting point is 00:50:33 but he also has experience with what he's talking about. Yes. So he's just, and he does a really, he did a really good job of, of, of the nuance. Yep. Like, hey, I understand where this.

Starting point is 00:50:43 this guy's coming from for these reasons. Let me show you where we have done that and why, how, the thought process, all the things and just his is a bill. And so much of personal training has been lost, in my opinion, in these 30-second one-minute reels that have gone viral and gotten popular. And personal training is so much more nuance than that. I mean, I feel like everything that somebody says, this is the way I can make an argument for no, it's not.

Starting point is 00:51:12 So, like, because of that, it's, there isn't this like this guy or the way they do it or the way this person says is always right. There's almost always an exception to the rule. And if you don't know all of that stuff. That's why the best coaches have both education and experience. And I can tell, like, Brett Contreras is like this. You need the application to go with it. Brent Contreras, very knowledgeable.

Starting point is 00:51:37 Also lots of experience. That's why I respect his opinion. You know, Jodafranco is another one. which I consider Joe de Franklin. Ben Bruno's really good with this team. Ben Bruno's great. You can tell Ben Bruno's trained a lot of everyday regular people. Yes.

Starting point is 00:51:49 Just by the way he communicates things. And I just shout out to those. There's lots of other good coaches, but those three coaches, their knowledge, both the science and application is just incredible. And it's not a couple years. It's decades.

Starting point is 00:52:06 No, it's 20, 30 years. Yes, of doing that. And you can tell when they communicate something. And I just, I love to see, content like that and those guys should be they're big but they should be even bigger than what uh i mean they've gotten to that point on social and social media is so fast and and it has the person with the thing that goes viral is the thing that most controversial and it's just like that that's the stuff that gets the algorithm going and it's like man our our industry or i mean our space isn't that like

Starting point is 00:52:34 it's uh talking to an individual is so unique to that individual and there's so many times where I tell one person this thing and another person something totally different because there's so many variables that come into. This is why I got to listen. I got to just pump the tires of our coaches that we don't have a lot of coaches that work for us. So people listening like it's on purpose. We're trying to grow as fast as we can. We have more people that we can service. Obviously we have millions of listeners. But we don't want bad coaches. And so we hire based off of character and purpose and some experience. And I tell you, man, I'm so impressed with our coaches. They, they're, they were good when they came in. They're sponges, man.

Starting point is 00:53:18 But six months later or eight months later, we're not talking years later, it's like they're, they have experience of four or five years. Yeah. Like some of our coaches, you know, downloaded 10 years of experience. I'm telling you, some of our coaches, you know, I remember we hired them. Wasn't that long ago. It was less than a year ago because we don't have, we just started this. And I'm listening to them coach and watching their technique and how they're

Starting point is 00:53:37 and I'm like, you already have, you're already talking like a trainer with, with five years of experience in less than a year. Well, off air, I share it with you guys. Like, I was impressed. I've been hanging around here later. We have, obviously, we have clients now that come in here late at night and stuff, right? Typically, after 5 p.m., people get off work and they train. And so there's been times where I'm here.

Starting point is 00:53:57 And just, I can tell, by the way, a client warms up how good of a trainer. I know. And I'm like watching the priming movements. That's great. These clients are on their own. Yeah. So, and I'm like, and I'm sitting at our counter over here. And I'm like, and I had to go to Kyle.

Starting point is 00:54:15 I'm like, who is, who's trainer is? Who's training that client? Who's training that client? Like, we remember how hard it was just to give them to buy into that concept. So I'm so impressed. I wish, man, I feel, I watch them. They're so good. I feel so blessed.

Starting point is 00:54:30 They've never worked with so many gifted coaches. But I think back to when I first became a trainer, I was so hungry. I loved it. Man, could you imagine working an environment like this with, with, with, with, with, all they're getting coached and trained and what they're doing? Incredible. I mean, I feel like Justin's experienced

Starting point is 00:54:44 the closest thing to that out of all of us, like, because he got an opportunity to work. He worked with some good trainers in the area. Yeah, he got a chance to be at a high level private studio, although I would still make the argument that these guys are better.

Starting point is 00:54:55 Yep. You know, because they're, the, I have a bias and yes, I agree. Because you did. You had an,

Starting point is 00:55:01 I never got to do that. I didn't get to, you know, I was in big box gym. Then I went into leadership and, and the business side more. So, you know,

Starting point is 00:55:09 of us as coaches. You guys are far better coaches and trainers than I am. And so I missed out on that opportunity to work with like a collection of like, you know, five, six other. I had great experience working with people outside of fitness. So like physical therapy, functional medicine, that kind of stuff. But Justin, he was surrounded by like athletic, very good athletic training. Top tier trainers for sure.

Starting point is 00:55:34 Which is cool because I learned a lot from Justin. We first got together, which is pretty cool. That's probably why it all works, too. It does. Yeah, we all have different. That's the reason everybody's so different. Dude, I got to tell this story before I forget. My daughter, Dahlia, my three-year-old daughter.

Starting point is 00:55:46 I was playing with her the other day. And this is just, just gives you a little peer into her personality. So she comes up to me, which, by the way, when your daughter comes up and says, come play with me, you say. You say, every time. So she's like, I'm busy. Drop everything. But she grabs my hand. But, Papa, come play with me.

Starting point is 00:56:00 So I'm like, done. Let's go. So I walk with her. She goes, sit down. It's a restaurant. I'm like, okay. So I sit down. And she tells me what to say.

Starting point is 00:56:08 She's like, ask me, tell me you're hungry. So, oh, man, I'm so hungry. And so she's like putting pretend food together. And she's like, tell me you want eggs and toast. So I'm like, hey, can I please have some eggs and toast? She goes, no, I'm eating it. And she's, I'm like, what's happening right now? I just sat there while she pretended to eat.

Starting point is 00:56:27 You can't have any of you to watch me eat. So like, okay. I'm like, what do I do now? She's all nothing. I'm like, okay. Oh, my gosh. I don't understand this game. Little turkey.

Starting point is 00:56:37 Just want to tell me no. A little fire. That's set you up, man, for sure. If you don't eat a lot of processed foods, if you have a low-carb diet, if you sweat a lot, you work out a lot, electrolyte supplementation oftentimes makes a huge difference. And of the electrolytes, sodium is the most important. It will improve performance and pumps. Might help with recovery.

Starting point is 00:57:03 Check it out. Element is an electrolyte powder. You add to your water with no artificial sweeteners, no sugar that has a thousand milligrams of sodium per serving. Most electrolyte powders are too scared to give you the right amount of sodium. Not element. 1000 milligrams. Boom. One dose makes a huge difference. Better pumps, better workouts, better focus. It makes a difference and it tastes great and there's no calories. Go to drink elemente.com forward slash mind pump. On that link, you'll get a free, you'll get a sample pack of their most popular drink mixed flavors with any purchase. Go check it out.

Starting point is 00:57:37 Back to the show. Our first caller is Alexa from New York. Hi, Alexa. How you doing, Alexa? Hi. Hello. Nice to see you guys. Thanks for having me on.

Starting point is 00:57:46 You got it. How can we help you? I have a bit of context. So I guess I'll start with that. But I guess my real question is, my broad question is, is it harder to lose body fat and maintain progress? with a more petite frame. So I'm five foot tall, which has been a struggle. And I think I'm doing everything that I'm supposed to be doing, but I just feel like I'm working so much harder just because

Starting point is 00:58:18 I'm a lot shorter. So I recently got a Dexas scan and I was at 15% body fat, which is pretty low. But I don't feel like it looks low just because I'm so petite. So I feel like, Because I'm five foot tall, I just have to work harder to appear leaner. My calories have to be cut so much more because my BMR is lower just because I'm shorter. So right now I'm maintaining 1,600 to 1,800 calories a day, which I feel like is pretty high. But I'm super hungry. So I'm scared to cut it even lower just to maintain the physique that I have right now. I really just want to maintain what I've got going on,

Starting point is 00:59:04 but it doesn't feel sustainable, the things that I'm currently doing, lifting four times a week, running four times a week, maintaining 1,600 to 1,800 calories. I just feel like I have to work super, super, super hard to maintain whatever I've got going on now. So.

Starting point is 00:59:22 Good question. Good question. Can I be just straight with you? Yes. You're tripping. You're tripping hard. So here's a deal. it feels like you're working so hard because you're doing a lot of the wrong stuff.

Starting point is 00:59:37 I also think, actually, I know that you don't see yourself accurately. So it's a bit of a distorted perception of how you look. 15% is not just lean. It's a little too lean to maintain. You'll typically get hormone imbalances if you're not already experiencing some of those side effects. If you want your body to look different at your, first off, your size makes no difference. It's all relative. And I've trained young ladies at your size who've gotten their metabolisms in the high 2000s, which I think you could definitely do.

Starting point is 01:00:09 So I'll give you advice in just a second. But I think what you're looking for is more muscle, not less body fat. Yeah. Because muscle is what gives shape. It's what gives sculpt. And especially at a body fat percentage between 15 to 18 percent, it's what's going to give you the look that I think you're looking for. It's muscle, not less body fat. And also the ability to eat way more calories.

Starting point is 01:00:33 Yeah. And the reason why you're hungry is because you're starving yourself. And you're probably not feeling great with all those workouts and running on such low calories. So there's a couple things, a couple things I would advise you to do. I would cut the running down to two days a week. Do you like the stamina from running or are you doing it for fat loss? Let me ask you that first. So I'm actually training for a half marathon, which is fun.

Starting point is 01:00:56 So I'm doing that. I do enjoy it. I do enjoy training for endurance. So all of these things I really enjoy. I'm not really doing it for fat loss. But yeah, it's fun for me. It's conflicting. Yeah, it is.

Starting point is 01:01:09 Yeah, because you're like, I want to perform with a half marathon, but I also want to look leaner. And I also got to be careful with my calories, and those are all conflicting. How important is the half marathon to you? Can we not do it, or is it like a big deal for you? Well, it's on Sunday. Okay.

Starting point is 01:01:25 Yeah, so after that, I have no running, races in the books. So after Sunday, don't do it again. Cut your running down to, if you like to run, cut it down to two days a week. If you can get rid of it,

Starting point is 01:01:41 I would get rid of it and just do something a little easier. And I would bump your calories and build some muscle. The look that you're looking for is going to come from more muscle, not more body fat. Stop weighing yourself.

Starting point is 01:01:52 Don't worry about the scale. But if I were to, if I had you increase your calories and had you gain five pounds of muscle, I guarantee you, you would look in the mirror and be like, whoa, that's the look that I was looking. But I'm also looking at your pictures. You look lean.

Starting point is 01:02:06 Yeah. You look great. You got to really, yeah, you're not seeing yourself accurately. Yeah, I'm just wondering how much more muscle can I build? Because I feel like I've gotten, I was really skinny at one point. So I built muscle. And then I had my dexas scan. So my dexas scan results said that I gained about seven pounds of skeletal muscle.

Starting point is 01:02:28 so I'm not sure. I guess if I eat more, I can probably gain more. Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah, no, you'll build more muscle. For sure. You got a great base, too. I mean, if you focus, I mean, you look like you could compete. You totally could focus on increasing calories, building muscle.

Starting point is 01:02:47 Just be okay with, be comfortable with increasing a little bit of body fat on the way there and then know that you have the skills to come right back to where you're at. but you're more than enough lean, but you're too lean to build muscle right now. Yeah. You're so lean, your body's not going to build muscle at that leanness. It needs to put on a little bit of body fat.

Starting point is 01:03:06 This is similar to the journey I'm taking Karen on right now. Like, uh, her, she's so lean right now that I need her to increase her body fat so we can build muscle. It's just not going to build her body that lean. Uh, uh,

Starting point is 01:03:18 and she's at 17. You're at 15. You're even leaner. Uh, I'm constantly telling her we got to keep increased calories. Yes, you're going to feel a little fluff. yes, you're going to feel like you're putting a little body fat on, but we need to in order to go build muscle.

Starting point is 01:03:31 And so that's what you need to do right now is focused on that. So as soon as the marathon is over, you need to switch over to the concept of like increasing calorie, putting some body fat percentage and muscle on. And then what will happen is you'll land somewhere in the mid 2000 calories-wise. Then you should be able to cut down to 22 and be as lean as you are right now with eating more calories and less work. You're going to feel stronger, more energy, more drive. You'll feel amazing. Your strength will go through the roof. So right now you've got everything you're doing.

Starting point is 01:04:05 You have a severe limiter on what your body can do because your calories are so low. Very depleted. Yeah, it's like you got a speed limiter on. And you want to go fast, but you're just, you've got a speed limiters. It's not letting you. Yeah, it feels like a lot of work. I'm just so scared of increasing calories just because I don't know if my, I mean, I keep thinking, focusing so much on my house.

Starting point is 01:04:25 height and I keep hearing, you know, five foot tall, you should have this many calories versus someone who's larger. So it's definitely limiting me. So, of course. Melissa Wolf, who was the competitor that I trained before Karen, the last one, she was five foot. So five foot, we got away up to 2,800 calories. So she was eating 28 calories. She hit stage competing in one at, and she was eating 2,200 calories.

Starting point is 01:04:49 That's the hit stage. That was on stage, her peak week, we cut down. It was her body fat down like 10. Oh, yeah. she was super lean. So you, you absolutely can, but just again, like, just like I talk to Corinna, as we have the same conversation right now,

Starting point is 01:05:03 is you're going to be, you're going to feel a little fluffy, you're going to feel like you're holding a little bit of, that's just water. That's just where you're at right now. We can go right back the other place really quick. Don't worry. And so you have to learn to get comfortable with that process of putting size on, putting muscle on,

Starting point is 01:05:19 and then know that you have the ability to come back the other direction. And the longer you can stay in that phase, the more muscle you're going to build, the faster your metabolism is going to be. And the better and healthier you're going to feel when you lower those calories back down to say somewhere like 22, you'll be able to maintain the look you're wanting with more muscle on your body, with no running and have what you want. But you have to first be able to kind of go through what is uncomfortable for a lot of my female competitors.

Starting point is 01:05:47 One thing you said, Alex says you're scared. So you would, and I get that. I get that personally, but also because I've worked with people like this. Have you ever worked with a coach? No. I am actually a certified personal trainer, so I coach myself, but I've never worked with a coach. Yeah, it never works to coach yourself. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:06 Take it from me. So it's always valuable. Yes. So it really helps to have a guide that you can kind of offset all that and trust and say, okay, I'm going to trust the process. I'm going to let you tell me what I'm just going to do it, not listen to myself because I know I can, you know, be a little distorted with it. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:23 And like I said, like the reverse diet is going to try. change your life. It's going to absolutely change your life. But if you're interested in working with a coach to walk you through that you could just trust, I could have somebody call you and we'll see where we can take that. At the very least, start following Corinne because I'm

Starting point is 01:06:40 coaching her through this exact process. She's a trainer. Yes, I actually just did. Okay, good. I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. I mean, this is the conversation we're having right now. So definitely at least do that. And then if you want, she's a coach. So she's incredible. So, and she doesn't need me for the knowledge piece of it. It's the accountability piece is why she has me.

Starting point is 01:07:00 So it's just that reminder as she's going through it. And, uh, and, you know, just because she's an brilliant trainer doesn't mean that she doesn't get challenged with the same things. And so, uh, that'll be a great process for you to watch. Awesome. Appreciate it. You got it. All right, Alexa.

Starting point is 01:07:15 Thank you. You got it. Thanks. All right. What do you guys think? She's going to do it or not? I mean, if she's following Corinne, I hope she reaches out to Karen. That's what I'm hoping.

Starting point is 01:07:24 Uh, because, uh, Corinne is. incredible. It's so funny. Grin is incredible with coaching other people how to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yet also recognizes that she needs someone to coach her through that process. That's the trailer story. Totally different thing. And so hopefully they connect. I hope that she, you know, DMs her or messages her and hopefully they can connect and she can, she can help her because this is the conversation. I mean, I think that Alexa knows what to do. I think she asked us to get kind of confirmation, but she doesn't want to. Yes. Because of the fear. It's tough. want to, yes.

Starting point is 01:07:54 The psychological barrier is everything. Absolutely everything. But I mean, if she just did what we said would be, I mean, she already looks incredible. I think she's getting away with a lot of the wrong things. If she just started moving in the right direction, there'd be some incredible changes. Yeah. Our next caller is Vanita from Utah. Hi, Vanita.

Starting point is 01:08:12 How you doing? Good. Thank you. This is wild. First, I like to thank you for all the content you put out over the years. You've had a huge impact on my overall help. and wellness, and I'm looking forward to listening for years to come. Awesome.

Starting point is 01:08:26 Thank you so much. How can we help you? So I'll jump in. I've been listening to you guys since 2018, and I have exclusively followed your programs. Unfortunately, I don't feel like I have the strength or aesthetic that might be expected from eight years of consistent strength training. And my best guess for why that is is a failure to adjust volume and intensity for life stressors.

Starting point is 01:08:47 That being said, stressors have reduced significantly for me for the past couple years, and I have reached a point of balance where I have a pretty healthy lifestyle. I feel like I have achieved the 80% that you guys talk about. My focus so far has been longevity, sustainability, and muscle gain. But I'm about to turn 29,

Starting point is 01:09:04 which means I have one year left in my 20s, and I want to really take advantage of my youth to make significant gains. My goal is to record PR numbers and photos when I turn 30 so that when I'm old and frail, I can look back at that and be proud. So my questions are, is this goal worth pursuing,

Starting point is 01:09:20 or would you recommend something else? And would I have to sacrifice the balance I've found to achieve my goal? Or are there effective tweaks that I could make to my current lifestyle? Yeah, good question. This is great. The only thing I would tweak or change is that the idea of looking back when you're older, as if this thing that you, some of my strongest, most beautiful, awesome clients were my clients that were 70 years old and still strong as shit.

Starting point is 01:09:46 So do not be fooled that you can continue to gain strength and build muscle for a long time. And so don't think of it is this moment where you're going to get in great. It's not just this window right. Yeah. It's going to, if you make fitness your lifestyle like it sounds like you want for the rest of your life, you're going to be very surprised when you get in your 60s and 70s of how great you feel, look, and move and all the things.

Starting point is 01:10:12 Yeah, Vanita, it's not that this is the reason why you should do this. But as you maintain your fitness and your health, it becomes more impressive the older you get, not less impressive. So, you know, a really fit 29-year-old is pretty impressive. It really fit 69-year-old, way more impressive. Now, that's not why you should do it. But just again, just to echo what Adam's saying is you keep looking. There's more to look forward to as you keep doing this.

Starting point is 01:10:38 So let's go back, okay. You said you had a tough time managing stressors, which tells me maybe you over-trained during that period of time or went after a little too hard. You're a mom. How many kids you have? Two kids. Three and five. Oh, they're still young. Good for you. And CBO, you got that already handled?

Starting point is 01:10:59 Yes, haven't had symptoms for over a year. Awesome. Oh, good. I also see in, I'm looking at your question, is it okay if I bring up stuff on your question that you didn't talk about? Absolutely. Yeah. So you were in the military and the Marines? Yes. Okay. So I'm getting a better picture now of the kind of personality you have, which sounds. to me, when I have ex-military, they tend to overdo it. They tend to push harder than they need to to accomplish, you know, the best results type of deal. You said things a little more balanced

Starting point is 01:11:32 now, so I'm assuming sleep and schedule and everything looks a lot better. Oh, yeah. Okay. What does your activity level look like and tell me a little bit about your nutrition? I'll see. So for more context, I'm 5-8, 135 pounds currently hit about 6 to 8,000 steps a day. I do have a desk job, so I have to intentionally work to get that. The past three programs I've done are symmetry, Muscle Mami, MAPS 15 performance advance, and right now I'm finishing up MuscleMami 15, and I'm pretty consistent with those. Awesome. My diet is Whole Foods about 80% of the time, and I consistently reach 110 to 130 grams of protein. I don't currently track my macros and calories, but would guess I'm around 2,200 to 2,500, and my sleep is about 7 to 8 hours a night. You're kicking butt. You are kicking butt. And I think, I'm curious to how you feel in the 15-minute protocol versus the other programs, because I think

Starting point is 01:12:30 that probably really suits your lifestyle. You've added, too, that you work. So working, having kids like that, you've got a lot going on. How does your body feel training, and 15 when you compare it to the other programs you've done? Well, I'll be honest. I heard about your 15 programs, and I was skeptical. It took me months to try it. But when I did 15 performance advanced, it has been one of my favorites. My body feels less tired after my workouts.

Starting point is 01:12:57 And I liked it so much. I went to Muscle Mommy 15. I think I was surprised at how well the 15 minutes works. So it's more like 30 minutes. Yeah, I do the mobility. But I really like it. Are you getting stronger on it? A little bit.

Starting point is 01:13:11 Honestly, mostly upper body. I mentioned in my question, I just haven't made a ton of strength gains over the past few years, and I feel like I'm missing something. Okay. Tell me about your lifts. Give me an idea of how strong you are. Yeah. So squat, about 145, deadlift, 150, bench 75. And these are doing like five-by-fives.

Starting point is 01:13:32 Oh, and that's five reps. Five reps? You're pretty strong. You're pretty strong. You're pretty strong. Yeah, yeah, you're pretty strong. Yeah, I like. And you're 135, you said?

Starting point is 01:13:42 Yeah, you're good. Yeah, you're strong. Okay, let me ask you a question. Be honest with me, okay? Would other people say you look like you work out? Yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't look like, I'm not built, but.

Starting point is 01:13:57 I don't care what you think. Yeah, yeah. What do other people say? Man, you work out. You look fit. I don't know. I think they'd be more likely to say I'm just skinny or slender. Yeah, well, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:14:07 So you've changed your answer now. Well, I mean, you could also, I mean, you're, you know, You look lean. You could go on a, like a bulk and actually intentionally try and get stronger. And I can tell you, you have room to, you could put on weight. You could put on body fat. You're fine. How tall are you getting, 5-8?

Starting point is 01:14:26 5-8. Yeah. Well, you're lean. Yeah. Yeah, 135. Well, you're lean. Yeah, you could eat more. I would go reverse diet and I like MAPS 15 power lift.

Starting point is 01:14:34 If you want to see some strain gains, that's cool. That's cool. That's cool. Powerlift, they'll get you hitting some PRs. Yeah. You have access to a home gym? Yeah, I do. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:41 But really go on a control bulk. Like try and add calories to diet. I know you don't really track right now, but get an idea of where you're at. And if you don't track, then what you would do is add a shake or add a meal every day. That's a balance. Like an extra meal. Yeah, just every day. That's it.

Starting point is 01:14:57 Just add that. Don't change anything else. Follow the new program. And intentionally go after bulking. Stay away from the scale. Don't let that get in your. head of what's going on. Just trust the process. You add good, good calories. You're going to get stronger. Yep. Yeah. And you'll build more muscle and you'll look more muscular and look like you lift

Starting point is 01:15:16 more weights. If that's what you want to do. You absolutely can. Do you know what your body fat percentage sits at roughly? I did the in-body scan at the gym. It said 21%. But I guess I'm a little higher. Yeah. You could get, you could gain probably on a reverse diet with power lift. I mean, a good five to eight pounds of lean body mass. Yeah. I think you'll gain. And that'll give you the look. I think more of the look that you're looking for. So when you say add, are you thinking like a 300 calorie snack? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:43 Three, four hundred calorie high protein meal. Yep. Yep. So if you know what you generally eat throughout. So this is how I would coach. This is how I coach people who don't track. You generally know what you eat day in and day out. Most of your meals are kind of similar.

Starting point is 01:15:55 There's all those off days, but for the most part, you probably always have kind of this for breakfast. That's okay. You get an extra meal that you know is going to have 35 grams of protein, some carbs, and that's your extra meal. You just add that to your day. So now you've added 300 calories. Another way to do it that I love to do it too is just add two ounces to every time you eat meat.

Starting point is 01:16:14 So instead of you eating a six ounce thing of meat, you eat, you make eight. So add two ounces of meat that you eat to every meal. So whatever that portion size normally is, go two ounces bigger on all of it and you'll be fine. It'll bump those calories naturally that way. This is actually pretty simple. Okay. You make it sound easy. Well, it's the hard part is going to be trusting it,

Starting point is 01:16:39 but I think you already did that with Mass 15. But yeah, add a few hundred calories, go Mass 15 power lift next. How far are you in the current program? I'm just finishing at Musilmami right now. Perfect, yeah. Mass 15 power lifts will be perfect for you. It is, it's a really simple answer. If we don't see the results, if you're not getting,

Starting point is 01:16:58 then I'd want to get deeper into the tracking and seeing exactly where you're at so I can adjust that. But if you have a pretty good general idea of what you eat on a regular basis and you simply just either add a meal or you just add two ounces to every single serving of meat, it'll take care of that. Yep. You'll do what it needs to do right there. And that'll be enough additional calories and you'll build.

Starting point is 01:17:22 So I typically do the six-week mini cuts and many bulks that you guys talk about. Are you thinking this would be longer than that? Yep. Yeah, I'd keep you on. I'd go all the way through power lift in this bulk. Yeah. Okay. That's three months.

Starting point is 01:17:36 That's it. Yeah. Three months. And we're looking for strength gains. Do you supplement? Do you take supplements? Um, vitamin D in the winter. That's it.

Starting point is 01:17:44 You don't take creatine? Not right now. Oh, yeah. Start taking crating. Yeah, right away. Yeah. Right away. Five grams a day.

Starting point is 01:17:51 The benefit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:56 I love to hear. I love to hear back from you after we. Yeah, let's get you back on in a few months. We're going to send you the MAPS 15 power lift, and I'd love to hear where your lifts go. You want to get back on in three months? Yeah, I'd love to. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:18:07 We'll call you back. Let's do it. All right. All right. Thank you. Bye-bye. Yeah, I had to read the rest of her question. I was like, okay, ex-marine.

Starting point is 01:18:15 Yeah, yeah. I don't know about you guys. But when I've trained, dudes follow the same pattern when they're ex-military. But especially women. When I train ex-military women, they're like. Well, they're like athletes. But just extreme. Yeah, they're like, this is too easy.

Starting point is 01:18:31 I'm like, no, no, no, this is right. the same type of, exactly the same, but similar type of, they train a lot of mindset. Yes. They train a lot of endure. Which is what you want.

Starting point is 01:18:42 Endure, don't break, don't like that. So they build these, yeah, they build these incredibly resilient mindsets. Super tough.

Starting point is 01:18:51 You know, resiliency isn't the best attribute when trying to sculpt and build a body. It's just not. I mean, it's a smarter way to do it. And so, yeah,

Starting point is 01:19:00 she's one, one, 135, five. She's doing those numbers already. Move to the 15 protocol in her own. She goes to a legit bulk and really try and bulk and get strong. I'd put 10 pounds of muscle on her.

Starting point is 01:19:14 Yeah. I know. Oh, yeah. Our next caller is Caden from West Virginia. Kaden, what's happening? What up, Kaden. How are you guys today? Good, man.

Starting point is 01:19:23 How are you? I'm good. I was supposed to say thank you for taking my call today. This really means a lot to me. You got it, dude. What you got for us, buddy? How can we help you? I'm just going to read my email here.

Starting point is 01:19:34 So, all right. So here's my situation. I'm 19 years old. I'm a mechanic. I work around 50 hours a week. I'm on my feet a lot averaging like 15 to 20,000 steps a day. And I'm training in a power lifting style. I lift five to six days a week.

Starting point is 01:19:49 My goal is to put on lean muscle without extra weight. With that level of daily activity, what would you recommend for my calorie intake to support healthy weight and muscle gain? Yeah, you're a machine, dude. Yeah, do you know where you're at right now by chance? Like how many calories you eat now? I'm at like 2,000 calories, roughly, give or take. I am, I don't know how much this really plays into it,

Starting point is 01:20:13 but I am on PRT as a 19-year-old, and I've lost 155 pounds. Whoa. Whoa, dude. When did you lose that? So, beginning of my freshman year, I weighed 300 pounds. Wow. And by the end of my, by August 8th, I actually have all these grow down.

Starting point is 01:20:32 August 8th, or no, 2021, I was 300 pounds. 2024, I hit 150 pounds. Bro, how did you do that? Tell me about your story. What did you mean? So, if you were on, for me, I was, I've been a wrestler in my whole life, and I was fairly decent at the heavier weight classes, but I didn't grow up.

Starting point is 01:20:55 I grew out, is what I like to say. I kind of put a good bit of weight on. and then my freshman year I went in with my brother and I didn't make weight to wrestle heavy weight I was too heavy I had 15 pounds over the weight limit

Starting point is 01:21:11 so right there I started losing weight I didn't do it the right way I did it very like improper which I know that now I did it kind of like the rest for mentality get the weight off you as fast as you can and that's why I'm on

Starting point is 01:21:26 TRT as a 19 year old it's from the doctor my pituitary gland doesn't produce it anymore because of the weight loss. But that's really about it. I mean, I'm trying to, I probably should have rode a lot more down about my story. I apologize with it. Yeah, no problem, dude. And let me guess here.

Starting point is 01:21:47 You're afraid to eat more because you don't want to gain all that body fat back. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. You know, to be honest with it. That is the truth. I get it, dude. You can easily bump your calories.

Starting point is 01:21:58 Oh, God. Yeah. And you'll just build muscle, huh? Especially because you're on TRT, you have a loud signal that your body wants to build muscle. And you're underfeeding it right now. You feeding it more calories as long as you keep strength training. And we'll give you a program to follow that. I think that's more appropriate for like your activity level.

Starting point is 01:22:19 But you follow that program and you eat about 500 more calories to start with a day. And you think like 2,500? At least to start. We'll get you up to 3,000. We're going to get you up higher than that. You go right to 25 and you start following the program. We send you, and you're going to build muscle. Do you like powerlifting style training?

Starting point is 01:22:40 Because I can send you mass power lift. Yeah, I love power lifting. I like being there for a while, too. Like, I like spending time at the gym, if that makes sense. Long rest periods. Yeah. I'm going to send you mass power lift. Yep.

Starting point is 01:22:54 And bump your calories 500. Yep. And in six weeks, I'd bump you up again. And you're just going to get strong, dude. Okay, thank you guys. But do it controlled, okay? Because here's the other side.

Starting point is 01:23:07 Sometimes what happens, especially with a kid, is you go in a, you start to bump your calories. You feel good. And then you go loose with it and crazy. None of the dirty bulks though. Yeah. Yeah. Are you, do you have a Facebook profile?

Starting point is 01:23:19 Yes, sir. I'm in the private forum. Okay, good. So use that. So use that to stay in touch with us. So as you go through this, add the 500 calories like Sal Sane. and then probably a month to six weeks, we're going to bump you again.

Starting point is 01:23:31 Just keep us posted on how you're feeling, what you notice, but you should see strength gains and you should start to put muscle on in that first month for sure. How do you live at home or you live on your own? Oh, yeah, I live at home. Oh, good for you. All right, man. How strong are you?

Starting point is 01:23:45 Tell me your lifts. So my max squat, last time I really maxed out was, it's been a couple months, but it was 375. The bench was 245, and the deadlift was, I'm kind of like Justin here. My squawks way better than my deadlift. My deadlift was. I feel your pain, dude.

Starting point is 01:24:05 325. We're going to get you pulling over 400 pounds. That's not bad. I would love to pull over 400 pounds. You will. You're only 19, dog. And you're meaning 2,000 calories. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:16 You got to get them up. Wait until, yeah. We bump these calories and yeah. We'll send you the program. Bump your calories, five and six weeks. If you feel good, bump it into the five. Yeah. Stay in touch with us in the forum.

Starting point is 01:24:26 Let us know how you're going to the forum. we'll guide you through this process and then love to have you come back on in three months and talk about wherever he's at. All right, thank you guys. I really appreciate this. Yeah, of course, dude. Keep going.

Starting point is 01:24:37 You guys have a good one. You too, brother. I love it. Wow. Dude, he lost a hell of weight on his own. That's crazy. That's great. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:45 I mean, yes, I know. He learned a lesson, right? That's also what crashed his test officer. Yeah. Which is interesting to me. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:55 Interesting they didn't use like HCG first. I know. Because, well, it's a few. fear is that you put a kid on testosterone, you kill the relying on it now. Well, you just kill the fertility. Now, there's ways to maintain fertility, but that's always the fear. So doctors typically are like whatever. But there might be more of the story.

Starting point is 01:25:11 Who knows, you know, what the deal is? But nonetheless, he's scared to add calories. He's 19, 15,000 steps a day, working out five, six days a week. I mean, he can eat 3,000 calories a day. The metabolism is ready. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But 25, 25 will step him up nicely. So he should see a difference right away just from that.

Starting point is 01:25:29 Cool. Our next caller is Casey and Kristen from Texas. What's up, guys? How are you doing, man? How you been? Hey, guys. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:25:38 Yeah, yeah. Long time. How you been? I'm well. I wrote down my question so I wouldn't mess it up because it kind of involves my wife here. So it's okay if I just read it. Yeah, go for it. Don't get us in trouble here.

Starting point is 01:25:51 I know, right? Me too. Like land mine. All right. So, so. So my wife hasn't really been interested in training, but I want her to get into it just for the health benefits of nothing else. She suffers from various health things, and I know that it can help her because it's helped me so much. Now, to make things easier, I built a home gym, and she's agreeable to like a MAPS 15 style commitment.

Starting point is 01:26:19 So my plan here is to train her myself, teach her the movements, take it easy, but aim for her. for consistency. So, A, what do you think of my little plan? And B, what program would you recommend? You know, starter, maps 15, 40 plus 15, muscle mommy 15, whatever. Now, my dream ultimately is that we're in there together doing like the big compound movements. That'll be awesome. But I'm open to anything, even if it's starter, if need be. So what thoughts do you guys have? Yeah. So, yeah. So, A lot of that's going to be based on her ability to perform the movements and mobility. Any experience strength training, Kristen? Is this totally new for you?

Starting point is 01:27:04 Pretty much, yeah. Okay. Starter is a good place to start. Yep. Okay. Then from there, maps 15. And then any of the 15 will be good after that. And you're going to be with it, right, Casey?

Starting point is 01:27:15 So you'll be able to watch her technique and form? Yes, absolutely. Starters the place to start. It'll help her understand stability and control. It's named starter precisely because it's the best program to start with. You're still going to see progress. You're going to see yourself get stronger. It is strength training.

Starting point is 01:27:33 But the exercises in there and the programming is perfect for a complete beginning. You figure out body control and really how to hold position, anchor down, and all that kind of stuff is necessary to kind of build upon and add load to as you go. And then after that, Mass 15 is perfect. Then you can go with any 15 after that. 40 plus. You can go symmetry, power lift, muscle mommy. It's all good.

Starting point is 01:27:54 Yep. Okay. Would you recommend working with maybe a trainer from you guys? Always. Always. Yeah. I mean, you can't,

Starting point is 01:28:05 if you're willing to invest in someone like that, it's always worth the investment. Yeah. They're going to individualize everything. Yes. That's where you're going to get it. And wife always does probably better listening to the coach than probably listening to husband, too.

Starting point is 01:28:20 I can't train my wife. I've got a big podcast where all I do is help and trade people. It's just easier. It's easier coming from. It's just a hard dynamic. It's weird. Now you're like teaching. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:28:34 Typically it doesn't work well unless they're working out together and they're both. Now after she gets momentum with the coach and gets a solid base, then I could totally see you guys working out together, right, like down the road. But you doing the coaching. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how dynamic you are in that situation. I know, I think I'm a pretty good coach and I still fail to do it to my wife.

Starting point is 01:28:57 So it's just, we have so many other things going on in our life. And then that in itself is a skill set and requires that. And, you know, that when they mesh, don't always go great. And so I would rather have somebody else, you know, one of my trainers coached my wife than myself for that reason. But yeah, but just the individualization is just, that's the big thing. They'll be able to individualize nutrition guidance, exercise modifications.

Starting point is 01:29:24 If there's anything that pops up, hey, this hurts, this doesn't feel right. Can I go harder? Can I add this? Take that away. They're just going to guide you the entire way through. Gotcha. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:37 Okay, cool. Pretty simple. So just start with starter, and then you guys will hook us up with the trainer, hopefully. I'm going to have someone call you. Yeah, we'll have someone calling. I'll make sure you're taking care of. We've got really, really good coaches,

Starting point is 01:29:47 but we'll make sure you guys get set up. Awesome. Okay. Thanks for the time, guys. You got a nice to meet you, Chris. Yeah, yeah. Good luck. Thanks.

Starting point is 01:29:56 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do you guys remember, Casey? I do. So he's got the basketball. He used to be like a real like TV guy. Yeah. And then he moved to his own channel.

Starting point is 01:30:07 He's been doing it for a long time. And so he's my, he's my go to like. What you said though is on point. Like couples that work out together sometimes works when they're when they're very similar, same focus, same kind of whatever. But when it's like, I'm. I'm going to train you type of deal. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:24 It could work, but sometimes, oftentimes it causes challenges because then it's like, you don't want your husband telling you what to do. Yeah. You know, and I don't want to feel good. And you trained them, which is my situation. You still train? Are you able to train your wife consistently? I can.

Starting point is 01:30:37 She loves it. But I, I kind of don't, I don't do it very often because I have my own workout. I have to do and everything. But I've tried to go back into that role. And it is a dynamic that works for us. But I'm like, I'll tell you how it looks for Katrina. Katrina and I, we go to the same gym right now, and we totally don't do the same thing.

Starting point is 01:30:56 We're on opposite sides of the gym. I occasionally will be walking by and see her doing a lift. And then I'll stop and say something, and I'll comment. I'll be like, hey, you want me to show you something with that? And she'll be like, yeah. And then I'll be like, here's like, your form is perfect. You're now at a level where you're more advanced. Let me show you how to engage your lats even more through that movement.

Starting point is 01:31:21 And then I'll sit down and I'll demo it and she'll be like, oh, wow. And then I walk away. It's like that's what it looks like. So you mansplained to her. No, I ask. I go, would you like me to? Because if you don't, I'll just keep it walking. You're fine.

Starting point is 01:31:36 You know what I'm saying? But she'll go, yeah, yeah, no, I definitely want to. Well, cool, let me show you something. And then, of course. And I lead with a, you're doing great already. Totally. Here's the next level to this. And then she loves that.

Starting point is 01:31:48 And so it works really well. But me coaching her. for the full hour. Just, it's not, you know, we do so much together. And so I think that's, I think that's hard for a coach to do that, much less somebody who's not a professional coach in that. So that you're just asking for that. You have a consistency and, you know, making sure that everything is moving for.

Starting point is 01:32:07 I think having an outside coach is way more effective. It's also hard. This is the other challenge I've had with couples is that, and then it's hard to turn off because then you're coaching your wife or you're coaching your husband, which is less common with. Then you're at home and you're watching them eat, and they're eating something that's off the dive. Now you're like, the way you can make the comment, what do I say?

Starting point is 01:32:25 And then you become the coach all the time. So this is just, it can be a weird dynamic. Well, yeah, and then you don't want to not have your workout that's set to be at said time. And just because you guys got into a tiff about something important. Yeah, now you don't work out. No, you don't work out. Yeah, so it's like better to outsource that, in my opinion. It's not that it can't work.

Starting point is 01:32:42 But in this, in their situation, I think the perfect world is she gets some coaching to get her set on her way. And then they can work out in the gym together at the same time. Totally. And I think they'll enjoy that process. Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

Starting point is 01:32:59 dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

Starting point is 01:33:25 With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2786: The 5 "Good" Reasons to Do Cardio (Most People Get This Wrong)

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.