Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2801: 3 Ways to Build Muscle and Endurance (How you Should Approach your Training)

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

Mind Pump Fit Tip: 3 Ways to Build Muscle and Endurance. (How you Should Approach your Training.) (3:11) How Adam is adjusting his training to avoid his recent stint of injuries. (19:26) The mental part of changing your training. (21:55) Sal's fear around running MAPS Great 8. (23:19) Missing the point: Leg extensions vs. Sissy Squats. (25:10) Enjoying fitness as a lifestyle. (26:19) Controversial post: Should commercial gyms have dress codes? (29:07) A meal replacement shake that tastes BOMB! (43:47) The foods you cannot stop eating! (46:29) How Mind Pump celebrated Valentine's Day, and what outfits their wives wear that turn them on. (50:32) Mind Pump Recommends Shrinking on Apple+. (1:00:23) More on the fallout from the Epstein emails. (1:02:11) #ListenerCoaching call #1 – Jasmine from CO: Programs and advice specific to recovery post-partum as an active, capable person who feels the information out there is lacking, often dated, and I want to make sure I am set up for success. (1:05:07) #ListenerCoaching call #2 – Alex from WA: Looking for answers after a less-than-ideal body fat test. (1:18:41) #ListenerCoaching call #3 – Broc from UT: Looking for advice on the training I should be doing with my schedule and lifestyle. (1:29:52) #ListenerCoaching call #4 – Caitlyn from NY: How do you balance training for performance while also chasing aesthetics without under-fueling or sabotaging progress? (1:38:20) Related Links/Products Mentioned Get Coached by Mind Pump, live! Visit: https://www.mplivecaller.com  Use code MINDPUMP for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners of 15% OFF! New customers only. "If you're trying to feel a little more put together, or you just want some easy wins in your day, this combo is such a good place to start." Visit: https://huel.com/MINDPUMP  Visit Pre-Alcohol by ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code "MINDPUMP26″ for 15% for first-time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack). ** MAPS Great 8 Launch - (Retail $127, Code: LAUNCH for 50% off!) ** Launch bonus include: MAPS GREAT 8 Nutrition Guide. ** Visit: http://mapsgreat8.com/  Mind Pump Store V Bar Push-Up Challenge with the MP Crew Mind Pump #2585: How to Become the Ultimate Hybrid Athlete Should Commercial Gyms Have a Dress Code? ‎Watch Shrinking - Apple TV Visit Joovv for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP to get $50 off your first purchase. 0% financing available! ** Mind Pump #2790: How To Get in Shape After Having a Baby Mind Pump Concierge Coaching Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Bret Contreras PhD (@bretcontreras1) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in the world. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had callers call in, and we got to coach them live on air. We helped them with their health and fitness. It's a good time.

By the way, this is after the intro. Today's intro was 61 minutes long. This is where we talked about fat loss, muscle gain, exercise, diet, current events, family life. That's always fun. After that, we got to the callers. By the way, if you want to be a caller on one of these episodes, send your question to MP LiveCaller.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors.

The first one is Huell. They make a RTD ready to drink meal replacement shake. It's plant-based and it's delicious. It's the best tasting plant-based meal replacement we've ever had. High in protein. It's got some carbs in there, some fiber. Use it as a meal. Use it as a post-workout meal, in fact.

That's how Adam has been using it. Go check them out. Get yourself a discount. Go to huel.com. That's h-u-e-l.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump, and you can get 15% off. This episode is also brought to by Z-Biotics. This is a pre-alcohol drink.

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So drink Zbiotics, then go drink some alcohol and watch. Watch what happens. You feel much better. Go to Zbiotics.com. That's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-S-com forward slash Mind Pump 26. use the code Mind Pump 26, get 15% off your purchases. Also, new program, Maps Great 8, 1 lift a day, 8 day split, get really strong on the best eight exercises.

The only eight exercises you ever need to do. And because it's a launch, it's 50% off. Go to MapsGrate8.com, so that's MapsGreat8.com. Use the code launch, get it for 50% off, and we'll also throw in the Great 8 nutrition. guide. All right. Here comes the show. T-shirt time. And it's T-shirt time.

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mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Building strength and muscle and getting endurance and stamina, they compete. What does that mean?

The more you focus on one, the less you get of the other one. But what if you want both? What if you want endurance, stamina, muscle, and strength? How should you approach your training? Well, there's three ways you can approach your training. We're going to break down all three of them, talk about the value of each, and why each one might be beneficial for you or not.

Let's go. Which one wins? I know that, I know we'll get to it that you're experimenting with this right now. But was this a recent study that they did this when they compared all three of these? There's actually more studies. on this. So I've looked up, recently I looked up studies that compared these. And what they find is results are either similar or a little better for certain versions, but it depends on what you're looking for. If you just want the physical attributes, then there's better options. If you want the

physical attributes to apply to a particular skill, then there's other options that are better. In other words like if you want to get better at a particular skill like cycling running or playing a sport sure there's a better way to approach it if you want uh you know if you like enjoy a workout a particular way there's value in other ones and then if you just want to do it because you don't really care about the skill acquisition as much as you like the physical attributes overall endurance overall strength then there seems to be a better option and then of course our trainer minds this is the part that i'm looking forward to is where we can go in and kind of speculate on the kind of person that would enjoy each one of these versions because ultimately that's what matters,

right? It's your consistency over time. And I think that's the questions that I have for you as we after we get through these is, and it's early right now I know for you, but it'll be interesting to see if you find that the approach that you're doing, which is obviously research shows that the way you're going about it is the best way for what you're trying to accomplish. But then back to your point about the trainer brain, If, you know, if you find it, it's actually more difficult to be consistent with it. If you don't like it. Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Who cares? Then it's like, then go with one of the other. Totally. So there's three main ways to do this. Now, this is just over generalizing because the workout programming is much more specific than this, right? There's also what happens in the workout that's very important. But generally speaking, there's three main ways you can approach this problem. One is you train both strength and endurance.

in the same workout. The second option is you do different workouts. So Monday may be strength and then Tuesday may be endurance and so on. So alternating in the same week. And then there's a third option, which is probably the least known, maybe even the least popular, where it's one week focused on strength, one week focused on endurance. So it's like totally broken up. And so those are the three main ways.

And so let's break down each of them and kind of talk about, you know, what their value may be. and who they may work for. So I guess with the first one, the same workout. And this, to me, when I think of this, this reminds me of like CrossFit style training or what people would label as conditioning or something like that. I think it's the most popular. I've seen it the most with, like, hybrid athletes

or people that are like trying to gain and acquire both these attributes. I see that they just, They sort of merged them both into the same workout primarily. I can also see where this is probably, it would be interesting to see if we could compare all these, the easiest to be consistent with. Because you're already there. And so let's say you're inconsistent with the days

on which you show up to the gym. And so if you have this thought process of, oh, I'm going to have these endurance days. I'm going to have these training drains. It's like this. And it's like, oh, what happens when I miss one or the other? versus whether I make three days this week or five days this week, every session looks like a blend of the two of them.

Yeah. So I bet there's a big argument for, even though this is probably of the three, it's the least successful way to go about this, it may be one of the more consistent or successful ways. Yeah, I mean, I see your point. I can see how that would work, especially if you're somebody that really hates one and likes the other one,

you might end up missing the ones he hate more often. Right. Although for me it's a little different, which we'll get to. so I can see that. I could also see, like, if you're in a sport that requires both at the same time, you're going to need to practice that skill. In other words, let's say you compete in CrossFit, okay?

Part of your CrossFit training is going to be good, is going to be getting good. It's not just to be strong in endurance. It's going to be getting good at competing in the event. And the event itself oftentimes combines everything on one. Well, I think this too is part of, I see this a lot. Like it, they get attracted to the event style and then the event becomes the training.

Yes. So there's no separation of that. There's no improvement on each aspect of it. It's just like you're so focused on the enjoyment and the experience of the event that you bring that in the workout and then it doesn't really, you can't really decide what's working. Not only that that type of person also is only getting in shape when they're signed up for the event. event. It reminds me of like my clients that were like the marathon, the marathon runners, right? Like, you know, hey, I need to get in shape. So I signed up for a marathon. It's like, it's like that that is always all they needed to have this end goal. Then that would get them back into working out for that period of time. And then what would inevitably happen? Marathon would happen. And then afterwards they would fall off the wagon and then that just repeat the cycle.

In my experience, too, there's another kind of person that would probably like this. And that's the person that views or enjoys the they like the sweat. Yeah. They like the conditioning part of the workout itself. Like for them, a workout is that. These kind of people had a tough time. In my experience,

I can think of a person as a tough time with just strain training. Yeah. Like, this is boring. Too bored. I got to rest. You know, and now when I used to train people,

I'd force them to do it because I'm training you. So I can make it enjoyable by hanging out with you. But there's a lot of people where, you know, this is what they, this is why they work out.

They like the workout part of it, the part that makes them feel like they're struggling and having a tough time. And so blending it together to them is what they enjoy doing. Now, this is far less specific. But again, if this is how you enjoy training, and especially if you're competing in a way that combines all this, there's going to be a component of needing to combine it all

because that's what your competition is going to ask. Well, I just, I was thinking of the person that classifies themselves as I'm in shape. Yeah. Like this in shape people really gravitate towards this merger of, like strength training and endurance like combined. Totally. Now,

one of the detriments of this is the, you're not separating. You're not re-eving the max benefits of either. Yeah, and all of that, but you're not separating the mental aspect of each. What I mean by that is there's a mental approach and understanding that goes with strength training.

It's a very different one than there is for conditioning or endurance. It's a very different approach. And sometimes it's hard for people to, or should I say, it's better to separate them so they can understand what strength training should feel like, because that's all I'm doing. And then they understand what, you know, stamina endurance training feel like, because that's all I'm doing. When you kind of blend it all together, it's like eating a dish with three different courses on it,

and you put them all on one fork and eat it. Like you're not really experiencing the steak by itself or the vegetables by themselves or the starch by themselves. You're kind of getting this blend of all three, which is okay. But you don't really ever develop the real understanding of just the steak or just, just the vegetables or just the starch. So this is 100% who I was for the first like 10 years of lifting for me. And I wrestle a lot with like what version of me? Oh, I see. Do I prefer or to like like like better? You know, and you know, funny, we had a challenge. I'm sure it'll go up on social media soon here.

where the staff try to get us to balance on a V bar and we all failed and we all failed and just like Justin I got I got really frustrated and why I got really frustrated because that was the type of stuff

I used to do I used to incorporate a lot of that shit into my workouts you know what I'm saying and not for any other reason that say I could do it and stuff like that's cool and yeah it was cool it was fun

I trained a lot like this were super setting and circuits and then the other days doing plyos. I mean, I just, again, remember I talked about how, you know, I took a lot of pride and no workout ever looked the same. And I was really overall fit. But I definitely wasn't the strongest I'd ever been. It wasn't the most aesthetic I'd ever been.

But I was overall fit. And so, and I think back to all those attributes that I had, and there's some of them that I miss and I want to get back. You know what I'm saying? And I think, especially when it gets highlighted like that. Like, I can't do this and I should be able to do this. But then I also go, you know, I do like that. I've put on a lot of muscle and I've gotten really strong and I have a way better aesthetic physique than that kid did.

Training way, like I trained way less, look better and stronger than that guy who was training his ass off. And ironically, that guy wanted what I have today, but I trained the wrong way to do it. And I had all those other attributes. So I wrestle with that a lot of times because there are some benefits. to training this way. Totally. But I think the most important thing to communicate, and I think where we come from,

because we've trained so many clients, is most clients come to you with a aesthetic goal. They want to change the body. They want general health, general fitness. Yes. But they want to look better. They want to look better. Of course they want to feel better.

Of course, they want to have some sort of endurance and stamina. Of course, that's part of that. But they really are like, I don't like the way I look in the way I feel. But it's look up the top. Exactly. And so when we communicate, we always communicate from that because that's 90% of the people are looking for that.

So the people that always grumble when we talk about this and they're like, I love my crossway. I love this weight. I'm not talking to you. You represent the 10% or less that never miss workouts, love training this way, was the 25-year-old version of me, and I get it. So like train your way if you want to.

But if you come to me, if that same person came to me and goes, but man, I really want to devote my delts more. And I wish I look like this. There's an objectively better way to go about it. Yeah. So we just have to highlight that. Yes. That's right.

All right. The next option is different workouts. So one day would be strength training. One day would be endurance or cardio. Now this, typically the people that tend to employ something like this either really like strength training or really like endurance. And it just looks different. If you really like strength training, it's typically strength training focused with some cardio thrown in on off days. And these are the aesthetically driven people.

They want to get lean. They like sculpting their body. Bodybuilders sometimes pre-contest is what their routine looks like. It's like I lift and then I do a little cardio. And sometimes and oftentimes are on different days. And then you have endurance athletes. I trained a lot of clients like this where they were either triathletes or marathon runners. Most of the workouts during the week were endurance for them.

And then there were a day or two where it was. just strength training. And so this is a good approach. Now you can have a balanced approach as well, but I think this approach is good for people who are focused more on one versus the other because then it's just which one I devote more time to. And the other one plays more of a supporting role than playing the main actor in this particular movie. And again, it's like, now you can mix it all up. But again, which one do you want more of? I think this allows. Yeah, the only downside that I think is you get kind of in rhythms and to shift your intention

going from one specific thing to the next, which we'll get into the other version, but I think that that might be one thing to point out is like each workout itself. You have to kind of gear yourself psychologically and kind of prep yourself a little differently. Well, after we share the third one and then Sal goes in to share his story,

I'm going to share with you how I've been doing things, which is closer to this, but it's a modified version of that. And so I'm really interested, to get to the third one, share what you're doing and how you're going about it. And then I'll tell you what I've been doing now for several weeks now. And it's kind of a modified version of this. And so we'll get to that.

Okay. So then you have this third version, which is far less known and less popular. But this occurred to me after reading a study where they compared different ways of training for endurance and strength. And one of the ways that they train these athletes, volume was equated for, by the way, was one week strength, one week endurance. It actually outperformed for both endurance and strength. The physical attributes or the physical expressions of both. What I mean by that is if you have a specific skill that you want to apply this to,

probably not a good way to train. Because if I'm getting good at running or trying to be good at swimming, I need to practice that often. I don't just need endurance. You can have tons of endurance, but if your skill is off, then endurance is not going to apply very well because you're not efficient with your movement. But if you just want general endurance and strength, what the study showed was one week focus on one,

one week focus on the other, and it seems to be a better approach. Now, here's why I'm doing this. I, and I could see where this would apply to a lot of people who struggle with falling in love with one of these attributes. Like training for endurance and stamina, I could care less. It's boring. I'm not getting a pump. I'm not getting jacked.

I'd much rather be lifting. weights, okay. But if I give myself a full week of this is all I'm focusing on, next week I'll get back to my lifting. So I'll look forward to that, but I'm going to wait till next week. What it allows me to do is have a full week of getting into it. There's momentum behind you. Momentum of really trying to really appreciate what I'm getting from it. Really appreciate the mental effects, the physical effects, see the endurance build up towards the end of the week and know that I'm not going to lose more muscle doing it this way. it would be the same things if I did at alternating days.

It's just, I'm in it. And this reminds me of the way we phase our strength training programs. Yeah. You can do a day of low reps, a day of high reps, a day of moderate reps in the same week. But the reason why we typically have a block of each is because each one of those is a different mental approach. Like lifting in the under five reps, different approach than lifting at 12 reps. And if you stay in it for three weeks, you get good at it. You get good at the mental part of what this should feel like.

So that's why I'm doing it this way. It's really just that. Like I know if I just have a week of endurance, I can just be focused on it and know next week I'll be the other stuff. And I'm just going to start to try to enjoy it, I should say. There's another way to frame that or say that, I think. And I think you can identify with this too is I also see huge benefits for somebody who admits that they have an addiction to either one of those.

That's right. So it's because it forces you to break up with that every week. That's what I'm doing. So it's like and actually commit to the opposite for at least a little while. That's right. before you can go back. And so what a great way and use either side, right? So let's say you're the person who's just like,

always got to run marathons and you always run. And those exist. There's a lot of those people. Right. There's a lot of those people. And they just struggle with the weight training. This idea of like you get a week of that, but then you got to go over to this side and you've got to let go with that.

And so I think for that person and then to what you've been sharing your journey of like knowing that you have this pool to it, it's like that forces you to break up with that every single week. And so I think there's a lot of value. to that for that person. Totally. I could see that. So what were you doing?

So I'm doing something kind of like it's not always, but sometimes in different workouts. I care mostly about the way I look body fat percentage, more the aesthetic, right? I've always talked about that. But recently, I'm like, hey, I'm going to be 45 this year. I want to have some endurance and stamina too. And so this has become a priority of me. And also, for the audience that hasn't been caught up to, it's like, we've talked about you and I a lot off air, speculating on like, you know, why do I get injured a lot when I get back in the rhythm of things. And it's, it's a blessing and a curse, right?

I mean, I'm sure this pisses everybody off when I say, like, how I put 20 pounds on in a month. Sounds awesome, but also ends up leading to a lot of nagging. Of muscle, by the way. Yeah, yeah, of issue, right? and so, and I'm here again. So what I've been doing is I'm lifting weights to change body composition is my main focus. But if I train, like yesterday I trained legs pretty hard and I'm definitely a pretty sore day. So now what I'll do is like the next day or two, it'll be cardio.

I'll take off weights completely. So you're essentially doing this to slow down the process of building strength and muscle prevent injury. Yes. Yeah, and I love that. Yeah. And I'm also, the way I'm also framing it in my head is like,

oh, this is facilitating recovery too, right? Moving, blood flow. The mental part is so big. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So, part of me is just like, so I'm reducing the amount of lifting the weights.

I'm trying to increase some of this endurance training where I'm an hour on the elliptical or, you know, inclined walking or something like that. Sometimes I do little moderate sprints to elevate the heart rate a little bit so I can push that. but it's still geared around the strength training, but there's no like, it's not like one day on, one day off.

It's not like that. It's like, I might get two days of lifting in a row, but then all of a sudden I notice it like, oh, I'm a little stiff, I'm a little tight. Okay, now I'm going to do cardio. And then I might do one day, I might get up and be like, well, I'm still kind of feeling a little sore

when I work out. I'm going to do another day. And so there's been times where I've done three days in a row of cardio, and then there's been times when I've done two or three days of strength training, and I'm just kind of feeling how my body feels. and when I feel like I've been pushing the weights

and my body's starting to talk to me a little bit it's like, okay, switch over, I go to the cardio way and so it's kind of looked like that. The mental part is so important. Like I'll just tell you guys just how hard it was for me today. So today's day one of cardio week, right? I'm not supposed to lift weights. Boy, did I...

I did okay. I kind of failed. You know what I did? What did you do? Bro, I had to do three sets. I had to do a couple sets. No, you did it, bro. I had to do a couple sets of weight.

I literally did three sets. That's it. and then I went and got on the treadmill. And now here's a deal. Here's the other side of the mental part, which, by the way, I did that. Three set, and I'm like, oh, God, I'm so, it's so addicted. It's wonderfully, what's the word?

The awareness around it is really painful. It's like, man, is it this bad? Yeah. But getting on cardio, I don't like, you know, cardio for the sake of the cardio, but I do like the fact that I can get into a zone and listen to a book or think or write. There's a meditative aspect.

For sure, you can't do that with weights. I got to focus on lifting. No, because you can kind of zone out and you could really just get into the rhythm. Totally, totally. Because, again, with weights, like, I'm under the bar. That's what I like about the cardio. That's exactly it. So I put my headphones on.

You have to lean into that. Totally. So I put my headphones on. I'm listening to a book and 10 minutes into it. Man, I'm into the book. And I'm writing ideas and thinking. You're like, okay, I could like it for this reason. These are the things that I could like it for.

Yeah, yeah. And this whole week, that's what I'm going to do. This whole week, I'm going to go through a book and then look forward to next week when I get to go back and lifting. Yeah, go back and lift. Yeah, I'm so curious to see how this goes through. I'm playing with the idea right now, especially considering that we just launched grade eight of this.

Like, you know it would be really cool. And I don't want to mess with what you're doing right now. I think you should absolutely do what you're doing right now. But afterwards, you'd be such a great person to see, do grade eight with the cardio. Oh, yeah. So literally, you just do one exercise a day and then the rest is spent on that. You know what my fear is around? This is going to be a great commercial for grade eight.

You know what my fear is around grade eight? It will get me, and let me explain before everybody go, little shut up. I'll get really strong. Yeah. And I start to get hurt once they go past the certain. So that's why I think pairing it with cardio right afterwards will kind of tamper that. Because you're right.

Because I think if you just ate and did one exercise and got really strong. Oh, bro. You would just get so. I think you would. I think people discard the fact that if you just hyper focus on one thing that moves the needle a lot, like how far you get. Yes. You know, and it's just like it's such like a foreign concept. Like we need to overwhelm the body.

with all these things and, you know, get into this crazy, like, gauntlet workout. I, the reason why I love so much the great aid is because it, when I think about what my last, like, I don't know how many years now, it looked like, it's looked a lot like that. There's a lot of day.

I mean, I, I, uh, yesterday when I trained legs, you know, quote unquote hard, it was squats for five sets. Yeah. That was the hard part. Then I messed around on the leg extensions, really just to kind of mock all the people that were talking.

I literally have a day. I just rage bathing. I had done, April. I had done legs for, extensions in so long. I'm not even that strong right now, dude. I'm like, I only squatted 250. Okay?

I'm doing 250 for reps. And five sets. I worked up to five sets. You lifted the stack. And then I go over to leg extensions, stack the whole thing for 12 to 15 reps. And even after that, I did 60 squats, dude. And I'm just like, the 60 squats were hard. Oh, of course. You know what I'm saying?

And of course, I posted about it because I know that whole thing that we did. This is the best way to do these legs. Yeah. Yeah. This is the best way to use leg stitching machine. Use a precision. And all the, all the smart trainers breaking down the biomechanics of the quad.

You know the rectus femurus in the attachment of the blah? Yeah, you guys, everybody who argued that missed the point. I said, take, we take two groups. One group for two years is only allowed to do one exercise for their leg development, leg extensions. Then go ahead and pick eight other leg exercises. Hack squats, front squats.

Bulgarians split squads, walking lunges, step-ups. I mean, the list goes on. The list goes on. And those two groups, okay, they can only do those one exercises for four or five sets, whatever. Pick your sets. I don't care. And see who's got better quads in two years. Come on.

Everybody knows that. That's the point of it when we were ranking them is thinking of that. Nobody, and then you know, you just, the real truth is everybody should do it. I say, of course, I'm doing them. Well, look, because it's easy. Yeah. Stop missing me. I like to sit down.

Yeah. I know. You know, the real thing, too, is when it comes to fitness, we've said this before, when you really start to have fun with it and enjoy it, like perfect routines are great. Okay, we write programs. And I love creating perfect programs. But if you can enjoy fitness, if you really start to play with it and enjoy it, that's it. You got it forever.

You love it. If you generally love fitness. And I used to have members like this in my gym. just, I'm not talking about the bodybuilders or the freaks. I'm talking about people just love fitness. They were always the healthiest. Why? Because they just loved fitness.

And they could do all kinds of different things. They would lift weights. They would do this. They would do that. It's just all. That's it. And then you have this, you have this like Swiss Army knife where you can pull out a tool on the knife for whatever you need.

Ooh, I need a little more strength. Boom. Strength training. I need a little stamina. Boom. Mobility. I need a little mobility. I need a little this and a little that.

I need something for more recuperative. Now you're using fitness in a way that, values you. I always come from a place of like the very minimalist attitude. Because in our experience, even at the most successful we ever were, right? So a decade after being coaches and when we probably all consider ourselves finally good coaches, right? Took a decade or whatever. 10 years. Yeah. And so we're finally good coaches. Even at that, at peak coach Adam, you still are only getting 30 to 40% of these people lifetime success. Which is a high percentage. Yeah.

It's like baseball. Yes. You're batting 300. Yeah, you're a Hall of Famer. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? If 70% of your people fail. Yeah, you're doing good. Yeah, you're doing good.

And so my thought, when I communicate exercise and fitness, I always go for like, man, if I could just get people to do a couple of these movements. And that is the argument I always have when we get into these debates with other trainers that are 25 years old and done all the certifications and understand anatomy so well and biomechanists. It's just like, yeah, but what you need to understand is. is that 80 plus percent of the population are going to struggle most of their life being consistent doing anything. And so if I can just get those people to focus on maybe a handful of the best movements and learn to like them, learn to do them, practice them as a skill, figure out, figure them out. And then they just approach those. They are going to be pretty strong and fit. But if I argue and debate these things about EMG light up on the leg extension versus this and confuse the fuck out of these people.

and the reason why I'm so passionate about it is because I was a young 20-year-old reading all that stuff. We also wasted her time. And I wasted a lot of time. A lot of clients time. Yeah, clients and my own time doing this when I would have been way better served, getting good at my squats. Getting good at my deadlift, getting good at my bulk getting good at these movements that really move the needle. I would have been way better served. Way better.

Speaking of controversial posts, the one where you and I, Adam, we're talking about, you asked me. Yes, dude. If you could... I lost, by the way. I know. I lost. You know, okay, so here's what the post was. The post was, Adam asked me, if you could change or implement one thing in commercial

gyms, what would it be? And I said, address code. And the controversy in the comments is silly about this. Look, everybody, I think people need to be reasonable. I've been in gyms since the early 90s, okay? As a kid, all the way growing up. It's gotten crazy, you guys. It's gotten really wild.

It's gotten crazy everywhere, first of all. I remember going to the beach. You'd never see thonged bikinis. Now you go to the beach. Everybody's wearing anything. So this is just the trend of how people are. But gyms, it's, and this is why I think now is the time, I think there's enough people where if you actually implemented a reasonable gym, you know, dress code. Not like you got to wear a burka in sweats.

Okay. Everybody calm down. But, you know, just, you're not going to wear, you can't be, you know, showing your whole torso or something like that. Like, I think you would get more members. Well, here's enough people that are like enough moms and dads and regular people who want to get fit who are like, yeah, I'd love to go to a gym where people aren't literally half naked, you know, being distracting or trying to get looked at. Like, and that's the truth, by the way. If you go to the gym half naked, I don't care how it's so comfortable. Shut up.

You want people to look at you. That's the truth. And I think a gym dress code would make a difference. Everybody's already experienced this, right? Like you go, it's PE class. Like you have to have like a specific shirt and shorts. And it's just like it was simple. It was effective.

Everybody was in there for a purpose. But I mean, yeah, I mean, again. It's gotten silly. So I, yeah, go ahead. I want to hear your argument. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, obviously, I took the other side of this argument. And I can argue your side.

And I, and let me first argue the way I actually think you believe. Because obviously, if you, you know you well enough, you know that you lean way more towards, I mean, more now conservative, but you were still libertarian about this. Sure. So I think you're not saying, we need legislation for. No, I don't want law. Yeah, where it's like it's law. No, no, I don't want laws.

Yeah, yeah. Who's a private gym? Like a consensus. Like, everybody agrees. Like, here's what we're going to. Even then, I don't think you would, uh, you would want that all gyms have to do this. I think what you like to see is like a gym step forward and be like, this is going to be how it is.

And I don't disagree with that. Because I think that then the market will dictate who's more rights. Exactly. Because I think there will be. And I think we kind of. to see this with a planet fitness is that. Planet Fitness regulates what you can, they're, there are no stringers.

Oh, I don't know that. Oh, yeah. Oh, I don't know. Oh, yeah. So, and that's their whole pitches, you know, we're the gym for everybody. Now, I think they took the other extreme and that's an example. They also got rid of exercises. Yeah. I was to get rid of. And so, so they, I think they went to an extreme version of that, but that, that's kind of their, their philosophy. So, and I think you you could go to the other extreme. I think you could be like, hey, we encourage shirtless people and there'll be a bunch of people that go to that one. So I really think that's the answer is, you know,

allow the gym to do that, and it'll attract the people that like that. It's just interesting to me. Because I don't like the, so I would say Bradley Martin's gym is the other extreme. And I'm not a fan of that. No. Like that's like, it's,

even though I'm, I'm pro, wear whatever you want to wear. I'm also like the dudes taking their shirts off and all the cameras, everyone video themselves and influencers like, I really, I just to distract.

I really do think if a commercial gym today had a reasonable dress code, I think they would do better. I think there's a lot of people that are turned away from gyms. I don't know. Because they feel uncomfortable. Moms and dads. You know how many, the comments of like moms were like, yeah, it makes me uncomfortable. And dudes were like, yeah, I don't really. And then people, of course, are hammering the guy.

Well, you can't, if you can't control yourself, stop. You could argue, you could argue that you're right based off of the growth of, with Planet Fitness. I mean, they're one of the fastest growing chains right now, and they're designed to make people feel comfortable, right? If you're really overweight

and you don't want to see a girl in a tube top and booty shorts and you don't want to see a guy in a stringer and stuff like that, like we're that, so you could argue that... It also, look, there's also the purest in me where I really love good, pure fitness culture

and good fitness gym culture is about fitness. It's about camaraderie. It's about support. And yeah, you can have that with the half-naked bodies also. But I think that gym culture, when you look at the toxic side, I hate using that word, because that's such a misused term, but the toxic side of fitness culture is this like, look at me. It's all about how I look. It's all about looking at each other. It's about checking each other out. It's heavy on the vanity. People will talk about gyms as a meat market. This is where that comes from. Now, how do you, how do you make peace or reconcile that feeling that you have, when you also simultaneously pumping iron is one of your favorite movies.

Yeah. And that gym is the guys are taking their shirts off. They're in booty shorts. Well, that was a different, that was a different time. I mean, let's be honest. Those gyms were small and it was pros. And so the culture is the culture. I'm talking about the typical gym today.

Commercial gym. It's a commercial gym. I'm trying. So if I owned a commercial gym today. I mean, that gym, if it could have been a commercial gym, though, it would have been. It just couldn't be. It was all different back. It was such an outside of the, you know, the mainstream.

I know. But maybe that's what it is. That's why I'm trying to get, like, how do you reconcile that? Because you've never spoke out of anything about that with that, with that gym. And that gym was okay. And they took their shirt. They were barefoot, took shirts off, booty shorts, you know, slapping each other in the ass in the back. Whoa.

They were doing all that, dog. They did. Pose in in the mirror. You know what I'm saying? And so there's all that. But it's now, obviously, it's grown to mainstream. These are commercial gyms. And now it attracts a.

a lot more people. And so is it maybe more because you just see a lot more of it? And it's, I mean, what? Because it's the same, it's kind of the same thing. I think so. I don't like, again, I don't think there should be a law. But I think a gym today that was really fitness forward, that was clean, great equipment, great trainers. The trainers make the culture, by the way. What I'm saying doesn't make the culture, okay? It's the trainers and the staff that make the culture. But that had a reasonable dress code, I think would really serve the people that need this the most, which is the everyday average person that needs, you know, the 20-something-year-old fitness fanatic, they don't, they'll go work out, they'll go work out somewhere. But the, you know,

the mom that has two kids, the dad that's working, the person who's overweight, like, uh, and again, reasonable. You don't need to go wear a uniform. I don't think you should show up at a gym and be required to wear like some crazy uniform. But I do think some reasonable, look, I have a 16-year-old daughter. Like you walk her, would I want to walk in? my 16-year-old daughter into some of these gyms. By the way, it's not half-naked dudes that I don't want her around the way some of these people are presenting themselves, and she's 16 years old. I don't know if I like this culture.

It's funny that, you know, you and I find ourselves in this argument and disagreement here because you and I also disagree on the spanking thing, yet I don't spank. And I also, my wife and I train in hoodies. We are in burqas. We're fully burkered out with Drake because that's my vibe is to be hooded out, covered like you know can't tell who I am type of deal and I'm hiding this thing underneath like that's yeah you know what I'm saying but I also am like I mean what is like the thought process too of like some people that go in there it's a signaling of like a you know it's a single yeah it's a

dating thing and it's like look at me like trying to attract like a potential person and so it's like yeah that's an interesting thought is like well where where does that person now you know, go trying to signal that. Well, so, okay, I like this as a pro argument to it. Because here's the thing. It's like this, and this, I didn't find this out until way later in my dating is, you know, one of the things I love about Katrina is that she cares about health and fitness like I do. She's not obsessed with it, but she cares enough about it that there is this accountability

piece that comes from my wife. Well, where's a better place than to find a woman like that than inside the gym? Right. And so I could understand this natural. inclination to want to signal, you know, and present and be that. And that's the best place to find each other attractive and stuff like that. So I, and to be honest, luckily I met, so here, funny, Katrina talks about how many times we'd seen each other in the gym. I never noticed her. Why? Because she's hooded up. That's right. Now, I met her outside of that and then realized that she was

like that. And so, and I respect, I love that she does that. That's great. But I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have picked her out inside the gym had we not met in business. It's also like, okay, how would you communicate this to your daughter? And I'm speaking both to men and women. If my daughter wanted to go to the gym where a strapless tube top with tiny little shorts, I'm going to sit down with them and be like, honey, why are you dressing this way? You know you want people to look at you. You want that attention.

Let's talk about that for a second. So, okay, that's actually. It's not about it's too hot in the gym and I need to be comfortable. You know what? But here's the thing, though, too. And I would rather that, I don't have a daughter, so I can't speak from that conversation. But if I did, I would rather me have the conversation with my daughter and she chooses that she doesn't, you know, but she has that option if she wanted to. And I like that.

I like that because she's going to go to school and they're going to offer her drugs and sex and all these other things. And I hope that as a father, I teach her these things. I'm not saying that Jim raises my daughter. My point with what I'm saying is the conversation I would have with her is a, as a, as a father. also an honest conversation you have with yourself. When you go to the gym and you are almost naked working out, it's not because it makes you comfortable. It's not all the lies.

Shut up. See, that's the daddy. You want people to look at you. That's the dad and you wants to come out and you want to father all these girls. Listen, I don't want to father anybody. It's just an honest conversation because there were people commenting. Listen, there were people commenting underneath, well, if you can't control yourself, it has nothing to do with me.

I don't care. Yeah, yeah. But I'm talking about the question was, If I own a commercial gym today, I think this is one of the things I would implement. And I think it would be good for business. I think it would be good for the culture. I'm not going to force you.

You dress however you want. You walk in my private room. You walk in my house that way, I'm going to kick you out. So I'll do the same thing in my gym. And so again, it's just, it's an honest conversation. It's an interesting experiment. I think that it would do well.

And then the other ones would do well for like the more dating kind of totally environment. I think that, you know, there's room for that. I mean, it's a big industry. Like there's plenty of options. like, I don't think that there should be like, I think it'd be fine to just define it. Here's what our, you know, code of ethics are, and this is what our gym's culture is about. And from a business perspective.

And so, sign up for it or not. Also, from a business perspective, you'll love this, Adam. Yeah. You want to make a gym that actually is profitable, does well, has a big impact. Who are you in a cater to? The young kids who are coming in, try to hit on each other half naked? Sure. Or the middle-aged people who, like, no, I'm here to work out.

It's a sliver of the- Who's got more money to spend? Right. I feel like that's, so, I mean, to me, that's when I think of what you're describing. And I, I don't go enough big commercial gyms lately to even have much of a dog in this fight. Because I have, I haven't experienced what you're saying. Like, I think that when I go to, like, say, a club one or club sport, like, it ain't like that. No, no, that's rich, old people.

Yeah, yeah. And when I go to, like, I don't know, I'd say when I go to, like, American Barbell or Golds, I think there's a healthy balance of it. I don't think it's extreme or crazy. I have seen extreme, though. I've been to, like, those ones in Los Vegas. Las Vegas. Yeah, I've been to Las Vegas, and I've seen it and I've seen it and been Bradley Martin's probably Miami too.

I went there once with my wife and because her family's in Vegas and we went there to work out with her brother and her sister-in-law. Yeah. And it's like, I think it's just Vegas culture too. Well, I mean, that's where all the strippers work out. So, I mean, and they are advertising. I mean, it is business for them. That's true.

So I can't hate on that. It's like that's what they do for a living. And it's like, best way to get customer. to come pay me at my job is to see my body when I work out. And so I understand. But I like I'm not, but I'm not the biggest fan. I wouldn't, again,

want my daughter growing up in that and that and stuff like that. But I also would teacher that. And I feel like, the thing that I don't like, I think, we're, I agree with you or we're probably what we have in common is that that same guy or girl who dresses like that and gets attention that maybe they don't,

is like inappropriate or they don't like too much. It's like, well, you're bringing that on by doing that. And so I also... You play a role too. Everybody... So that's like... It doesn't excuse the dirtbag. No, no, that's not what I'm saying by that.

But I'm saying like... If you put yourself out there, that's what I would have... That's the whole uniform. This is a conversation I have with my daughter. If I had a daughter, that's what you're saying... Hey, if you do this, you know that there's dirtbag guys out there. And they're what they're seeing... They're going to be cocking at you.

They might be taking videos of you. That's right. They're probably going to approach you. when you're trying to work out. So understand that and what you're subject. They're just looking for an opportunity. That's right. And so.

That's just reality. And that's, so it's like if you're going to do that, you complain complain about that is another thing. It's just like there's a real easy solve to this. And it's not like. Somebody commented something hilarious underneath because somebody wrote, well,

you're just talking about the women. And then this guy's like, you know what? If I went to the gym, what you guys were wearing, you guys would kick me out a hull of fast. Like it's true. If a dude walked in there with tiny ass little shorts.

My wife, Peter. With the junk hanging out? He made my wife beaters. Yes, I said, what about nipple-type wife-beaters? I said, ask you for a friend. You don't have no moose knuckles. You don't I haven't worked out in that a while?

Really? Good for you. And it's because my... Well, it promotes that. No, my security is a little bit better. It's an insecurity thing, right? All of it is. It's like, you want to show your muscle.

I know that so well because that was me, dog. I did that for years. For years, I wore three t-shirts, wife beater, regular t-shirt, another t-shirt. Makes you bigger. Yes. And then I get air it up in the gym, layer after layer comes up. By the time of the...

That's a thing now. I know, dude. The pump cover is a thing. That's what they call it? Yeah, there's a term for it. It's the top shirt. Yeah. There's a term for something we've been doing for 25 years when we work out.

And they call it a pump cover and stuff I think. Totally. Anyway, I was going to ask you, Adam, you've been having the Huel meal replacement. Like crazy. Almost daily. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm... This is the first time I've seen you.

consume anything that's a meal replacement that's entirely like there's no it's all plant based yeah and you always and you're like a like a like a you know i'd say you have like a palette of a child it doesn't taste super good you won't have it yeah yeah but you well dude i had they have a i mean the strawberry banana flavors bomb they have a chocolate peanut butter flavor that's bomb that's one they've got it they've got a coffee one have you had the coffee one yeah yeah have you had the coffee one yeah we only had a couple in there and i i had them and i'm like man where they all at Because we've only had, I haven't seen more of them. We have more of the other ones.

And that's my favorite one that I've had. I haven't seen it come back in our refrigerator in a while. So those are, what I like is this. And we've talked about this before. If I do a certain amount of way or dairy in my diet, I'm fine. But when I'm really trying to push and hit my protein intake, it's almost always in the diet in order to kind of get there. And I just digest that way better.

And so if I just break it up and so I make sure that that. one of my sources is coming from that instead of like two sources of way or dairy. It's really easy to digest. Very. Yeah, really easy. Very. And so I like it post workout. Post workout.

Oh, because it's got carbs too. And it's already loaded. It's good. Yeah, it's a meal replacement. I can get it right afterwards. And so, yeah, I've, yeah, kind of enjoyed it, dude. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

I did not see that. I've never seen you consume that consistent of shakes. Yeah. Ever. I also am such a, yeah, the ready to drink. Even in my. You're like adding. Water to water?

I know. The Shaker Cup thing. It's just, I mean, I did it. I did it for a very long time. So I absolutely was the Shaker Cup guy. You know, I'm the one that came up to showed you guys the tip on that. Oh, yeah. Tell everybody, you guys.

Dude, that is, if you are a shaker cup person, the worst part about Shaker Cups is the nasty protein smell. Oh, God. When it... Oh, you have to throw away the... Yeah, it's disgusting. You can't scrub it. In your car and the sun? You can't scrub it.

Oh, throw in the garbage. There's a massive hack for that. You'll never get it out. The minute that you finish that, you literally, you literally, And you don't have to do a good job of renting. You literally pour it out, rinse it, throw it, and you throw it a paper towel inside it and close it. That's it. Throw it in your gym bag.

It absorbs everything. And it'll keep it from ever getting stinky. That was, I forgot who taught. I wish I could give the credit to who it was, but was in my bodybuilding days. It works. It works. Great. If you leave your shaker cup from the morning till evening sometimes, it ruined.

Yes. Especially if it was sealed and it wasn't raced. I've thrown multiples out. Yes. And so all you do is you got to just throw up. paper towel in there. Gross. And then it'll absorb it all in there and it will not stink.

It's huge hack. Speaking of calories and stuff. Okay. So we all have foods that we just, like we want to overeat, right? And for me, I've talked about French fries before. Dude, it's the ones from In and Out.

I can't stop. No, no, no, listen. Listen. Those are delicious. Listen to me. Listen, we went to In and Out now a few times with my family. And I'll order two fries.

I always get two fries. And my kids never finished theirs. My niece doesn't finish hers. my wife. Bro, listen. I eat five fries. Five. Oh, my God. In a row. And I was like, you're a monster. I'm like, oh, I'm going to stop. I'm going to stop. And I couldn't stop. It was too powerful. You're so in that place right now that I remember. One, you've healed your gut. I think they put a lot of, I think they put drugs in a field. You've healed, you've healed your gut. So you feel a lot better. So you don't have that natural regular you should have. And you've built so

much muscle that you could power through stuff like that and not get super fat. If you were getting fat, Like, you would actually slow down. I don't know you. If you were getting fat from it, you would slow down. You call me fat every day. Hey, this reminds me of my daily gelato kick that I was on peak body building. You know what I was? When I was 240 and like 7% body fat, I was eating gelato every day.

But you're like this with ice cream, right? If it's in front, you'll just eat it. Oh, yeah. Until it's gone. Gone. Yeah, see? Gone, yeah. Like, you won't stop because it hurts.

No, no, no. Actually, I mean, until it actually hurts. Have you ever tested it? I will pass, yeah, I'll pass full. until it starts a bottle. Like, how much will it, like, go to? An out, like a gallon? Oh, no, I could put a whole, the whole, you know, the whole carton thing.

Wow. Yeah. Is that a gallon? No, I, no, it's not a gallon. No, a gallon is a big one. A quart. A quart. No, it's more than a cord.

What's a thrifties ice cream thing like that? Yeah, I could put a whole, which is like, I think 3,000, 3,000 calories with Oh my God. Yeah, yeah, no, I could do that. That's a lot. Right now I couldn't do that, but I, I, peak peak metabolism when I was like, like, where you're at right now, where you're saying you could eat five fries, I could eat a whole time.

I couldn't believe it, though. I just kept eating it. My kids are like, I don't want to. Roll switch, dude, because I can't eat anything. It's not feeling the pain of it. Yeah. It's just, I can't, dude. I can't eat like all the fun, crazy stuff.

I'll eat a little bit. Did you do the parasite cleanser? Die later, dude. You might have worms, dude. Did you get the parasite cleanse? You got to do it. I did it. I did it.

I did it. You got to do it, dude. You might have that. He's just got to stop cheese, dog. He's just to stop cheese. That's all he does do. How are you? I'm just going to just blame it on the one condition that's proven.

Do you, do you, is that, what is it for you, Justin, where you fit some front of you? Is it just still, is it cheese for real? Well, I always eat cheese. Yeah. We don't even count that. How much is that, Doug? Yeah, a quart and half. Court and half.

Wow. So, yeah, I can put a court in half down. That's 3,000 calories? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, you know, we always talk about the stuff that, like, stems from child. It's like, childhood shit, right? Yeah.

And we didn't have, I remember, like, I have a lot of blurry memories. One of, like, my biggest memories is I moved out when I was 17, got my own apartment. And I remember the first time I went grocery shopping. I'm getting ice cream. My freezer was literally nothing but frozen burritos and freaking ice cream, dude. And it's all that was in there. And I remember, because I couldn't do it, my parents would let me do as a kid. I would open up the container and sit in front of the TV and I just sit there and eat the whole thing, dude.

Eat the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. I can't. I can't. And the worst part was, I played basketball. I did all these active things so I could get away with it. Yeah. It's like it was the worst.

thing that could happen to me. Like I know that if it, if it put a ton of weight on me, it would have, it would have, it would have, I feel like there was like two or three years where it was just Costco.

Like I only ate Costco like bagel dogs. Uh, one of those like bagel bites. Yes. Like otter pops and like, yeah, ice cream. Yeah.

And it was like, yeah. There was like a frozen burritos, the bagel bites and hot pockets. I lived off of food years, dude. Oh my God. I see the hot box. It's terrible.

You know why? Because they sell you on. how healthy there. How many grams of protein are in there? That's it. Look at how many grams of protein are in it. I remember when I realized if you ate a pound of pasta, it was like 40 grams of protein.

Raviolis. The can of raviolis, dude, I remember that. Get it all in. I'll get a pound of pasta. It's all the cheap. Let's go. Hey, what did you guys? What did everybody do for Valentine's Day?

Oh, good. So Jessica made it this fun holiday for the kids. So they all came downstairs. They had a little Valentine's Day gift. She set up the table with like hearts and I got chocolate covers. It's really nice. So she's like, she wants to start this tradition. and then I got her a gift.

I was going to get her something else. I won't say it on air because I'm going to hold that for another time. But one thing I love, so my wife's into working out. And so what's cool about that is I can get her fitness gifts without it being offensive. Like typically you buy her wife like a workout, like something for exercise. You always like run the risk of like, okay, are you saying I'm fat? Like what's your deal? You know what I mean?

Hey, honey, I got you this new machine. I got you this new exercise, this dumbbells. But she loves, right, she loves it. And we have our big garage. And so I got a, you guys know that Roe machine I got recently? Yeah. So love it. That same company, I'm not going to mention them because they don't sponsor us, but they got some

I got a standing abductor machine. Have you ever seen standing abductor machines? No. So you don't adductor machines. Waste of time, right? Yep, yeah. There's ones where you stand and you squat down and press your legs out. And it really hits and isolates the glutes as a way to emphasize connection.

Interesting. Can you load yourself while you do it? You could load the... Yeah, there's weight on it. You could load. Yeah, but that's only on the abduction or abduction position. It doesn't matter. You have to push down and out as you come out.

Interesting. And Brett Contreras, he constantly posts about these standing hip abducting machines. I've never used them before. But I know enough about exercise and the body to know what something will feel like. And I saw one for the house for like your home gym. So that's what I got it. Oh, did you try it? No, I just ordered it.

I haven't used it. So I haven't used it. So that's what I got it for... What did you? Okay. Yeah, we went up to Half Moon Bay. Oh, I love that. It kind of doubled up.

Well, it definitely doubled up. It was like my birthday present that was like, you know, delayed. It's like, he's like Valentine's Day birthday present. I really was like, we're smashing both these together. At this point, you waited too long. So, you know, we're just going to just make it a set. So I get credit for Valentine's Day also. Yeah, exactly.

I get credit for this. So, yeah, we enjoyed that. But it was, I mean, brought our own. We like to do it. So it's like we have our own kind of set up. So we don't really have to leave. and see I had a couple bottles of Rambi and it was made sure this time

to bring some Z-biotics and all that. We were like set, dude. So I didn't have any of the ramification of that next day. So we had a great time. When it's just you and your wife, like how much, because obviously when you're in your 20s, you just go hard with drinking too far or whatever. What does that average out to?

If you guys are hanging out just two of you and you're drinking, is it like four glasses? I mean, it's probably like, it's probably like a bottle and a half. Total. Oh, that's not too bad. Over the course of like a whole lot. Yeah.

A bottle's only four glasses. And so we're not like crazy. Yeah. Like you said, we're not like raging teenagers. You're not like Katrina. Enjoy like the scenery. Wait you get to ask me up.

But the Zibonics makes it makes a difference. It made a bit because I'm not like with wine. I enjoy the flavor. I enjoy the taste. But like it usually gives me like I definitely feel. like headaches. Especially in Red War. Yeah, dude. It just, it doesn't sit well with me, usually. Does, does help with it?

Does Courtney, like the Zbiox also? Does she use it too? She does too, yeah. Because, yeah. And the thing is, like, we like to be out and about and, like, go places. We don't want to be like, oh, just like stay in bed all the next day, you know? So we want to get up and go, and we're out, like, downtown and doing a bunch of stuff. And we went to some place where it's like, I had to endure.

So there's these, like, natural, like, plants gardening places and stuff. And so I'm like, you know, the husband that's like, you know, what is this? And like, I'm trying to trying to pronounce like all these Latin names and stuff. Like, what kind of hocus pocus wizardry is this that we're buying?

You know, it's like, anyways. That's where you act interested? Yeah, act interested. Like I'm like, yeah, this wow, this is only, you know, grows in this kind of native climate. Cool. You know, so, but it, yeah, we had a good time.

You saw your bagpipes, too, yeah? Yeah, I love that place for that. It's just, it brings those vibes of, like, when we were in Scotland, it definitely brings that here. And that's a cool feature. Have you done that yet? Have you gone it? Do one of those? Both Half Moon Bay and Spanish Bay both do that.

No, we went, and I've never done that. So cool. Yeah, it's cool. You get a room right there. And maybe they play that out there. And when the sunset, so you're watching the sunset come down the ocean and the bagpipes goes the whole coastline. So for like an hour, he's. When I hear bagpipes, I can't help but think Braveheart in the movie.

Yeah. Yeah, it feels like war. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's like a sentiment. I think, you know, it's a weird thing, but I thought about this because each culture kind of has like a distinctive instrument and like kind of like music. Yeah.

So bagpipes for me, it hits. Like, you know, it's like a, like almost like a tearing kind of effect. I swear to God. Yeah. And I think of Adam and I'm like, you know, polka? Yeah. No, no, bariachi, bro. Yeah, well, you get both.

You get, like, the German and the Mexican Jews, dude, it's polka. I don't get yourself. I don't get, I don't get tearful when I hear an accordion. You know what I mean? I hear an accordion. Yes, you do. No, I do. What's that song that I told you I listened to that, I try that's famous.

Oh, who's that artist? Supervichel. Tell me, I know you feel that. Come on, dude. Even I feel that. I'm not Italian. That's the equivalent of it. I turn it all the way up, drive with my windows down.

Yeah, of course. You're driving your tiny car. That's why. I feel it though, you don't say? It just feels right. It just feels right. What did you do?

What'd you guys do? We had, we had Jay and Jason and Danielle over. Oh, and I cooked. I cooked for everybody. I prepped my, Katrina wanted my baby back ribs.

And so I did baby back ribs. Made a baked bean homemade thing that I did. And then they brought some stuff. And then we, Z biotic, up and then drank, but ours looked a little bit different than a bottle and a half. I mean, Katrina alone put three bottles of champagne down. Yes, bro. She has extra livers,

doesn't she. Oh, yes. How does she okay? And she doesn't do that, she occasionally does end biotic. She didn't do zibiotic, don't. She did not do it. Some people could just process. It's a, it's a, it's in genes, dude. You can do, I cannot. Oh, God, I would die. Yeah, that was, she had three bottles of champagne and then her and Daniel, Daniel cracked another bottle a white wine. That's how we finish the night. Oh my God. Insane, dude. Absolutely, absolutely insane. And you wouldn't know, like, because she keeps herself pretty composed.

I mean, until she came down in the Britney Spillard's outfit, and then I realized, like, your mom's in the house, and you just came down. Yeah, it's like, dude, like, you guys got to leave. Then I realize. Everybody out. Then I realized how tipsy she was. I was just like, you know, your mom is upstairs and is in the room, and you just walked downstairs and that outfit like go upstairs hold on i'll be there in minutes so i'm like okay this is what

three bottles looks like what do you say to get everybody out or are you just like hey guys leave whatever you want jason and daniel had just left and i was downstairs doing dishes and stuff like that and my mom so my mother-in-law stayed the night and her and max they went up to they went up to bed watch movies in the spare room or whatever like that so they're they had been in bed for a few hours we stayed up drinking by the fire watching Nate bargazi laughing having a good time so that and the kitchen was a disaster i I can't go to sleep. I cannot have a good night with a dirty dish. Looming.

Yeah. And so I'm like, I'm going to just let me straighten up a little bit and so like that. And so I'm downstairs. And here she comes down. Brittany spears out, bro. And I'm like, yes, dude. She's like, come to bed. And I'm like, uh, you know your mom is like literally.

Now, do you leave the dishes or you just wash faster? I've watched faster. Yeah, yeah. Because I can't. I still can. Yeah. It's like, I'm getting, I'm getting, I'm getting them down. Don't worry.

She's like, hurry, because I'm going to fall asleep. I'm like, no, you won't. I'll be up there just a minute, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, if you open the dishwasher, there's like food clumped all over the food. You know what I'm saying? I didn't do a good job of spraying everything down. Is there an outfit? Like, my wife, if she wears...

I'd never seen that one. That was a new one. Obviously, that bonus. That was a new one. My wife, if she wears like a long, like, a flowy dress, if she has an apron on barefoot and she's doing anything in the kitchen, I don't understand what happens to me. That sounds biblical, bro. Yeah, yeah.

I just go, I was like, I lose my mind, bro. Bro? And if she has no makeup on on top of it, she thinks I'm lying. She's like, no, you don't really. So listen, you try that. That's the hippie-dippy in you for sure. That's hilarious.

Something, dude. She's in the kitchen making food. I'm like, oh, God. I'm like tall, tall socks and short shorts. Okay, well, that's, I mean. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty... Any skirt, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Tennis skirt is like... There's nothing that I can put on, though, that'll do that. You know what I'm trying... No, there's nothing. Yeah, they don't... Whatever, bro.

It looks so great. Sure. listen to Toolbelt for you. Well, that's true. That is like a home run. Yeah, but you can't just walk out. You have to actually do something. Yeah, you got to actually fix things. Have you pretended yet? You just walked out with a tubelow and just carried it two by four. But you know, I saw a hack. It was funny. I saw this guy, this dad hack who actually, he ended up going in and like, like, loosening bolts and things ahead of time. And then like would turn the water off and was just like, oh, the toilet's not working. Like, oh, man.

I got this. go get, you know, the tool valve, he goes and grabs it. He just goes, turns out. Yeah, I'm going to need some beverages and, like, his little daughter's coming in, giving him, like, drinks and stuff. He's like, oh, thank you, honey. Like, this is so hard. And he's just, you just, he's just, he's up in the pipe with the hammer.

He's got hacked the system. Yeah. Gets all the praise. Oh, that's great. Hey, I found a new show. And for some reason, I thought I had lit the preview, and I didn't think it was going to be that good. Katrina and I both from different friends had the recommendations.

we're like, you know, maybe we should, we'll turn it on and we'll watch it really good. It's on Apple TV, uh, shrinking with Harrison Ford and the guy from yes man, I forget his name. The community, he does more comedic movies. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm talking about. I know you talking about. I can't think of his name. Yeah.

I love you, man. Yeah, yeah, I love you, man. Yeah, yeah, I love you, man. Yeah, yeah. That, that guy, forget his name. And Harrison Ford and it's, uh, very well written, uh, comedy. short, really good. It's on season three, I think it's season three right now.

And the only reason why we turned it on was because we literally had like three different people tell us like, have you guys not seen it? We're like, oh, we saw it on Apple. We didn't watch it. They're like, oh, my God, it's so good. Yeah. And so, funny, because we went to go watch it and it was, it's ranked number one right now on Apple. Yeah.

And watched it and it's really good. It's really, yeah, that new Game of Thrones show. Jason Siegel, that's his name. Siegel. I refuse to watch anything until I see if they're not on an Epstein list. I don't know, man. Oh, God, dude. You're not going to be watching much.

Exactly. You'll be watching any TV. Exactly. You get Mr. Rogers and he's gone. Yeah, it's like, oh, man. Like, everybody? Everybody's on this list. It makes me love Mr. Rogers even more now.

Yeah. It's like, geez. I wish, that's the type of person that should be taught in history class. I know. His story is, I, it's been a long time since something, watching something got me like emotion. His documentary was so... Just a great guy.

So good. And I mean, as a kid, I watched it, but I didn't know his full story. Which, by the way, I got to say this. Justin, you brought this up. Is it true that the Epstein email showed that Michael Jackson was innocent? Bro, I've been going on that. He was actually taking kids and bringing them to Neverland Ranch to prevent them from getting sent?

I've heard this. I don't know if that's proven. There's a lot of, like, conjecture around it. Because, too, I was actually talking about it. God, that would suck. I know. I was talking to one of my friends about it, too, and his uncle, actually was one of the arresting sheriffs in Santa Barbara

and who went there. And so one thing he said was like the doors, like you could lock them, you couldn't get out from the, you couldn't open them from the inside. Oh, that's weird. It's like weird, right? So then, so then he was kind of like, you know, I don't know, like, because I want to believe that because I'm a huge Michael Jackson fan. And then I saw like a lot of these theories kind of opening up about that.

But who knows? dude like I've watched all kinds of stuff on that I went down that rabbit hole I saw I heard the phone call for the night he was killed or died you know and he's literally with his doctor yeah he's literally taught no it's not his doctor he's talking to somebody else and he's talking saying that they want to kill me he's like they're he's he's basically the night it's that it's the it's the night before you know that he was in the middle of suing uh Sony for uh and so he's in middle of suing Sony uh mocoli coli and the other kid who spent the most time with him said that they defended him.

That court case, you know, he won. He won that case. So all the stuff that was against him that they made a documentary about him and everything like that, that he won that case. And it came out after he died too. And these were all kids, they dismissed their testimonies. And then all of a sudden now this documentary comes out and they put their false accusations in the documentary. So it's like, to me, yeah, it's also.

suspect. Yeah, interesting. Really crazy, right? Look, everybody, the science on red light therapy is profound. There are studies that go back decades that show that red light therapy boosts function and all the cells that are exposed to it. What does that mean? You put it on your scalp, you grow more hair.

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Our first caller is Jasmine from Colorado. I've been lifting for about over a decade. I've been training Brazilian jiu-jitsu for 14 years. I've been climbing for four years since I moved to Colorado. And this past month or so since giving birth to my baby boy has been probably the hardest adjustment as an active person who's been consistent for so many years. Even in pregnancy, I managed to maintain like three times a week of adjusted lifting regimen. I also managed to kickbox all the way through the week I gave birth. But since then, I've only been walking and doing occupational therapy. And as you probably can imagine, I'm pretty eager to get back into the swing of things.

And at this moment, as I'm trying to think about like how what my life looks like and how my activity looks now post-baby, I kind of have plans to do Maps 15 in my home gym, especially you have to hearing feedback from you guys to other parents on the podcast. But what I've noticed is that programs and advice specifically to recovery postpartum and actually during pregnancy are pretty dated and often lacking, especially as an active person. Even though I'm waiting for clearance from my doctor to be able to work out again, I'm pretty much a poster child for overdoing it on things. And it's funny that you just had that podcast. We talked about getting back in shape after having a baby, but I would love to get your feedback on what this actually looks like specifically,

you know, how do I, how do I treat lifting differently than Jiu-Jitsu and climbing? And what does it really look like, right? Because I, like, is it starting from completely zero with body weight exercises? Is it a little bit away? I'd love to hear like what you guys think. Jasmine, thank you for this question so much. And is this your first child? Yes. Okay. Thank you for calling in because you're right. the information that's out there for moms is dated and it's based off of it's first of all it sucks anyway across the board but it's also based off of uh inactive you know regular people I guess people who aren't working out all the time or staying fit nonetheless number one I want to

encourage you you're doing a really good job and the reason why I want to tell you that is because what you went through and I would love for you you to expand on this just for other moms listening is probably the most radical body change. I'm not in control what's going on. Things are changed, like experience you've probably ever had through your fitness career. Is that, am I putting it accurately? Yeah, 100%. Okay.

The hardest thing about all of this for someone like you who's been working out and fit and active is it's so hard being someone who for a long time you've kind of got your hands around your body and fitness like you've done it for so long you're like I know how to get fit I know when something hurts I know what to do with my diet like this is great but you've been given a radically different hormone profile body and a different perspective even your thought process is different you're probably even finding yourself thinking and reacting in ways that are different, especially postpartum, which is a very difficult thing to process because you've got to kind of let go.

Yeah. You're like, I don't know what's going on anymore, which is a really scary thing to do. So here's what you'll hear from people in social media. They'll say things like, oh, once you're released, once your doctor says you can get back in exercise, and by six months, you'll be back in shape a year later at the longest. You're going to be great. It'll be like, whatever. You might even have someone posting.

and saying that this is me and I'm great and I'm fit and all that stuff. Lies. It's all lies. It's all lies. It's going to take you to feel like your old self, the way you did before you got pregnant, it's going to take about two years. Now, that doesn't mean in that two-year process, you're not going to see fitness improvements and changes and strength and all that stuff.

But don't expect to feel the way you did before for at least two years. Also, yes, you are, you got to treat this like you're starting over completely because this is a completely different body than you're used to. Hormones are different. Your priorities are different. Even the way you process sound and sleep is different. You hear your baby crying. It does something to you that you've never experienced before. In the middle of the night, you probably wake up at the slightest movement of the baby, whereas before you might have been able to sleep all night.

you might have in truths of thoughts. What if I drop the baby? What if this happens? This is all part of what happens to you as a mom to make you a better mom. Okay. So you got to start completely over with everything. The program that we have, and I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but I'm going to encourage you right now.

Because of your fitness background, it's going to be way easier for you than it is for most people. The challenge is going to be you submitting to the whole process. That's going to be the challenge. The whole challenge is can I just give in to the whole thing. The best program we have postpartum by far hands down is Map Starter. It's better than that? I actually have Map Starter.

Good. I didn't run it, but I bought it for my dad. But I actually have it. You're going to start Map Starter and you're going to be like, this sucks. It's way too easy. I can do this on my street. Strength stability. Yeah.

You just got to get into it. Yeah, this is easy. Like, what am I doing? Like, I'm way stronger than this or whatever. You trust, totally trust the process because you have to be. the relearn muscle recruitment patterns. Your hormones aren't going to be back to what they were before for a little while anyway. Lots of things stretched and moved.

Your pelvic floor muscles have been changed for the time being. Your core stability has changed for the time being. Posterior change has changed for the time being. So Map Starter is going to be the program that you start with. And you're probably going to run that once or probably twice and then move to something like Maps 15. Okay. Let me tell you some encouraging and positive stuff.

And this was stuff that I remember having to communicate to Katrina as because she came into pregnancy in like some of the best shape of her life. Diet was dialed. She felt the best. She was lean strong, all the things felt great. And I started her on starter. And I remember her within a couple weeks like, all right, I'm ready. Give me anabolic or give me the next program.

And I'm right. And I'm like, are you not seeing progress and results every week? And she's like, well, yeah, I am. And I'm like, exactly. the goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most change. You're seeing change. So the cool part about somebody like you or her is even

going through a program that in your head you go, this is so less of what I would I'm, yeah, this is so much easier or basic compared to what I could do or normally would do. You think that it's not enough to give you results, but you'll see results. You'll get stronger. Stability will come together. Like, you'll see progress

on a program that is so less than what you're probably used to doing. And I remind her, I'm like, let's reap the benefit from this. The fact that you can do a program so elementary to you and see results is such a good thing. Let's keep going down this process. Don't worry. We'll get there.

So that's the positive thing is because you've got such a great background doing a program that in your head psychologically you'll be like, this is not enough. But if you ask yourself, am I getting stronger every week? Is my stability coming back together? Am I feeling? You'll be able to tell yourself you are. And so ride that train. Ride that train and enjoy that process.

And you will. You'll get stronger. You'll get better. And someone like you will rebound quicker than the average. Now, Jasmine, you got to also reframe how you view progress or what you consider to be progress. So sometimes progress, because I know what it's like to have kids. Now, I'm not a mom, but I'm married to one. And so sometimes progress is I have more energy than I probably would. I actually feel better than I probably would. I'm less anxious than I probably would be. So it's a little bit of new territory. Your old perception of progress might not be one that you're going to use now. So it might just be, okay, I'm actually better than I probably would be.

Even though I'm struggling, would I be struggling more if I wasn't doing this right? Now, if you do this wrong and you push yourself a little too hard or you do the wrong movements, aches, pains, injury, fatigue, and feeling fried or burnt out or what are going to happen to you. So I remember even my wife, I mean, she, you know, she was consistent with her exercise real strong before and the whole deal. And she'd be like, man, I just, I didn't even think I went hard and my back is hurting. Like, what's going on? I'm like, honey, your muscle recruitment patterns, we got to wait.

And so she couldn't even push certain exercises for like a year and a half. because each time she'd do it, she'd kind of hurt and couldn't figure it out. But then afterwards, it was like not a big deal. So just stick with starter. Stick with starter. Go on walks with the baby. Watch jujitsu videos that'll help keep the techniques fresh in your mind. If you do jujitsu, you know, a year later, you're just going to flow.

You know what that means? Because you do jiu-jitsu, you're just going to kind of go through the techniques and the movements and flow. Don't go too hard. and just and you're listening in a couple years you're going to be like wow i'm i'm ready to roll unless you have another baby in between which it'll take a little longer yeah that's the jihitsu is the one that i'm actually the most nervous about um like i have some some lingering injuries pre-pregnancy that i like did pt for it i can still feel them especially now like in my hips like with having the baby and stuff i feel like they're still there so it's good to know that i need

the muscle recruitment stuff definitely makes sense but jiu jihsue is definitely the one that I have the most questions about because it's easy for me to lift and even to kickbox on a bag like I can control things. But when I'm training with people, like I can't really control their behaviors and how intense they go. And I don't, and I'm not exactly expecting to get back into like competition shape like in a year. But I would be curious to see like, so you're saying like a year before I really get back into Jiu-Jitsu the way I used to be. Yeah. If you start to feel good, then you're just going to go roll at a very low intensity and flow, which you know what that feels like.

You're just practicing technique, not tons of resistance. You get them into a position. You let them escape. You move into a new position just to keep the techniques fresh in your mind. But no hard, nothing hard, no hard grab. The risk of injuries high. The areas that are most susceptible to injury postpartum are hips back and the pelvic floor. And pelvic floor injuries can feel like low back injuries.

Okay. Or hip or sciatica type stuff. It's because they're all connected with that. That makes sense. Thank you. You got it. And you have starter. I do. Yep. Yep. Good. Good. Eat to nourish yourself. That might be the other question. High protein is really good. Don't go on a cut. Don't try to go on a cut. Are you nursing? Are you breastfeeding? I'm transitioning from breastfeeding right now. Okay. So yeah. So that'll give you a little bit more flexibility. But just eat to nourish your body. Let your body heal. enjoy your baby, you'll be back at it before you know it, and you're going to feel great.

But be patient. Okay. Thank you so much, guys. You got it. Thanks for calling him. Appreciate it. Not enough is communicated appropriately to women. It's just like terrible.

The information that's out there and the expectations for women who are fit is just, and again, I want to be clear, that doesn't mean between now and the two-year period, she's not feeling good and fit. She'll make rapid progress. You have to be real. about what, you know, you have to recover and heal from completely. And what I'm talking about is this. She'll get fit and healthy. So that's not, I'm not saying it's going to take two years to get fit and healthy and look good on that stuff.

That'll happen sooner. But she'll know this. And this is what you'll hear are women who are sincere and honest who do this. They'll tell you this. Like, I just don't feel like myself 100%. Right. You know? And then like two years later, like, oh, there it is.

It's a new baseline that you have to work with. Well, especially someone like this who's a peak fitness person. Yes. 14 years of jihitsu training climbing. That's a high bar. So she'll be a bit, yeah. So for someone like that, it's a definite two year, you know, because you're not going to feel peak you for a long time.

But someone like the positive thing, just so, because I felt like we just laid a bunch of bad news on her is that she, her body will like more than the average person. I guarantee she looks better than 99% of women. Already. It feels better than 99% at this stage. Right. Also, it's so important for her to be dialed in with her recruitment process right now because otherwise, you know, you get strong and then now we have these new bad patterns that we're stout.

And by the way, whenever we communicate something like this, remember we were coaches, I'm going to give somebody the general answer. Does that mean some people are not going to get their faster? Some people will get their faster. But what I'm not going to say, which is a stupid mistake that coaches make, is tell them the best, best case scenario. You can be back to yourself in five, six months easy. And then poor girl is like a year later is like, what's going on? So like two years is generally what you'll experience. Our next caller is Alex from Washington.

What's up, ma'am? How are you doing, Alex? What's happening? Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for having me on. It's awesome to meet you. You got it, dude. How can we help you?

Yeah, I originally wrote into the show to get some perspective on my fat loss goals. So I'm going to set the stage for you here with a few notes. I'm 35 years old, and when I reached out, I was 205 pounds. I had a Dexas scan from November that put me at 30% body fat, which was honestly really surprising to me because I work out all the time. I knew that I wasn't even close to my peak shape anymore, but I guess that I was in a bit of denial about the body fat that I had put on. I'm a new dad. My son was born in August, so I've had to reel back a few days in the gym per week. but I do have a modest home gym set up and a membership to a commercial gym that's right down the street from my house.

It's really close. I lift push-pull legs three times a week and I usually do about 20 minutes of low-intensity cardio afterwards. Up until recently, my calories were pretty inconsistent. I was eating anywhere from 1,800 calories per day to like the upper 2,000's pretty, pretty big swings. And while I know I eat a lot of meat, I really wasn't tracking protein. So I was probably hovering around the 100 grams of protein per day for a long time. I think that my maintenance calories is 2,500.

Over the last two to three weeks, I've been tracking my calories, tracking my macros and my steps. I use my fitness palat to do all that. I've been eating about 2,000 calories per day. I've been hitting 150 to 200 grams of protein per day, 100 to 200 grams of carbs per day, depending on if I'm working out or if it's an off day. And I've been keeping the fats under 60 grams and averaging about 6,000 steps per day.

So that's been about two to three weeks being really diligent. my weight has dropped from 205 to 196 as of today. I'm feeling great about the drop. I'm feeling like it's probably water weight, inflammation, glycogen. I want to make sure that I'm approaching this cut and my goal of reducing body fat sustainably and not do anything drastic and rebound. I've been on drastic cuts before as low as like 1,600 calories for a long time. And, you know, I was able to achieve my goal, but it was just like not sustainable.

And the season of life I'm in right now, it's just not the right plan for me. So basically, you know, my goal, all that is to say my goal is to get down to 15% body fat and would love your thoughts on, you know, how to move forward from here. You said you're at about 2,400 calories? Right now over the last two to three weeks, I've been eating pretty strictly 2,000 calories. I'm estimating my maintenance is 2,500. Yeah. So I'm estimating I'm in a slight deficit. So I think there's a couple things you could do.

I think what you're doing is okay. You're actually on the right track. But I'm going to take a – we're going to go back for a second. Before you got your decks to scan, how are you feeling? Like, how are you feeling fitness and health-wise? I was feeling really strong. I felt bloated. Like I knew I felt, like I felt puffy.

I felt like I was on like a heavy bulk, but I felt really strong. Sleep was really good. You know, energy, everything. Yeah. Yeah. Energy libido, everything was really good. I just wasn't happy with the mirror. So yeah, but here's a deal because here's what I'm hearing.

I'm hearing like I felt like I was doing all right. Then I got a desk to scan and it changed how I felt. So I'm going to help you with that a little bit, okay? Don't get too hung up on a body fat test. Okay. Okay? Because it's like you could change everything just because the test said something. If you felt good, you're probably okay.

Now, I like the direction you're going. There's only one thing I would change. A little bit higher fat. Yeah, your fat is too low. Yeah, yeah. A guy like you, like you get down to 60, you're playing with too little fat. That's going to start feeling like crap. I think just a little bit, I think the bump in fat,

by 10 to 20 grams alone, and that'll bump your calories a little bit. I think you can hover around probably the 22 to 2300 calories. And you'll be fine. And you'll be fine. It'll be, yeah, that should lean you out and maybe even build a little bit of muscle. Jay, just, I think you, like Sal said, I think you're on the right track. I think you were probably having big swings. It sounds like you knew that.

Like you were having low day, and then you have a really high day. I'm guessing that on those really high days, you probably overate carb type foods and probably didn't hit protein intake on the low days. You probably didn't get enough protein in what you needed. And so now you're more and closer to the range of where you need to be. And I bet you can hover right around that 22 to 2,400 range and actually see a nice body composition change. And stay fed so you don't feel like you're starving, your energy should be okay. And you'll know because you'll be strong in the gym. You won't feel as strong as you do when you're eating 3,000 calories and you're totally filled up because there's a different feeling. But you should

feel strong and good energy and good libido and good sleep and should see a nice, nice leaning out process. If you were my client, because the last thing that you said, Alex, is I want to do this in a sustainable way. And I've kind of crashed dieted before. So if you were my client, and I like that you said that, by the way, that's the number one concern as a coach for all my clients. That's number one because it's the most difficult thing.

Losing body fat, building muscle, getting more fit. Those are hard, but they pale in comparison to consistency over long periods of time. That's like the number one challenge. So what I would do with you is I would say, look, let's do this, Alex. Stop tracking everything. Hit your protein targets. Stick to whole natural foods. That's it.

Don't eat anything that's processed. Lift weights three days a week. Maps anabolic, not the PPL, whatever you're doing now. Go maps anabolic. And try to aim for about 8,000 steps a day because you're at 6,000. Just do that. Just hit protein, whole natural foods when you're hungry. Don't go processed.

That'll keep everything in check. Lift weights three days a week's maps and abys. all hit 8,000 steps a day. Now you're going to get, you're going to get the results and you're going to do it in a way that's sustainable. It's not going to feel like you're controlling everything where at some point you're like, I want to get off of this. Yeah, yeah. I do feel like I need to control everything right now.

Well, and part of the reason was because everything was, you know, chaos. It was totally uncontrolled. And I was like, all right, if I'm going to try to figure this out, let's try to control a few things and just see what happens. And then within two weeks, I was like, all right, I feel like I'd love. lost them weight. And, you know, by listening to you guys a lot, like, I knew that was probably going to happen. I was probably going to just shed a little bit of water weight inflammation.

And I'm feeling a lot better. Strength has definitely dropped. It's not dropped dramatically, but strength has dropped. But that's interesting about the fat. So you guys think the, that's low. But stop tracking. Stop tracking everything. So I'm going to make it easier.

Okay. The only things you need to control, hit your protein, consistently, Every single day, only eat whole natural foods, hit 8,000 steps a day and lift weights. Don't track anything else. And eat when you're hungry. That's it. Just but eat a whole food and eat a protein first, right? So that's kind of like when I'm not tracking, I'm intuitive leading.

I allow myself to eat when I want to eat. I just don't eat the processed shit of the garbage. I just go for a high protein meal. And it'll kind of control itself. It's very reasonable that you'll go from 13 to probably 16, 15 percent body fat doing this. Yeah. It's actually quite a. expected. You don't have to do anything else to kind of get there. Now, once you get to 15-16,

you're like, oh, cool, I want to get to 12 or 10. Then we might need to track a little bit more, but I think at that point, you'll be, you'll feel great and you'll be like, I'm cool. Okay. Got it. I'll send you. Do you have maps enabolic? No, no, I don't. Is it a three-day-a-week plan? Yeah, it's a three-day-a-week plan. It's a better three-day-way than a push-pool also. Yeah, you're going to hit, you'll send the results just from that. So that'll help. Awesome. Yeah, I've been doing PPL for years. Would love to check it out. This would be a great change. This would be a good change.

Yep. Awesome, guys. Well, hey, I appreciate the perspective. I'll definitely put it in practice. Yeah, hey, check back with us in about 60 days. I'd like to hear where you're at. I think you're going to see, I'm thinking you'll be really happy.

Alex, how long you've been listening to the show? Just six months. I just found you guys within the last year. So it's when I wrote in, I think it was like six or seven months. I was about to take a flight. I was looking for like fitness podcasts to listen to you. I've been like hammering my normal podcast, like JREs and stuff. And I was like,

what is this mind club? And I started listening and I was like, oh, okay, this is like right up my alley. Yeah, good deal. We'll send you that program. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right on. Let's check back with it. I want to hear from you in six, in about two months. I think you're going to see a huge difference.

Cool. All right. We'll do. Thanks, guys. All right. You know, it's for us, he's only been listening for less than a year, so whatever, but it's surprising how long people will listen before they get a program, a maps program. Yeah.

And just as for anybody listening right now. They're dudes. It's like stopping and asking for... It is always the guys. It's like stopping and asking for directions, dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's stopping and asking for directions. Listen, I got this shit.

I know. That sounds like good advice. Except you don't. But I'm going to keep doing this. Except you don't. At some point, you keep taking the wrong turn. Listen, here, if you listen to the show for a while, it's probably because you like us.

You probably find some value. Just get a damn program. Yeah. Get a damn program. Try it out for yourself. Maybe we know what we're talking about. And I'm going to tell you this, it'll save you so much time and money because otherwise you'll call us in three years. Hey, guys, I've been trying this, been trying that's not working.

Hey, cool. Here. I'll tell you, it's our thoughts on paper. I'll tell you this, too. I think, I think, like, push, pull legs is cool and all, but running it as a three-day-a-week routine and not doing it as a six-day. We're doing it forever. You know, like, you've got to change at something. In someone like this, full-body probably works better.

Typically does. No, no, for his lifestyle, it's going to be way better. Why, Anna Balk is going to be right up his. That alone is already going to give him. Good results. He'll see. And, you know, to touch on what you said, I think it's really good advice to not track because I actually would want him, he's going to do anabolic and he's going to build muscle. His appetite's going to go out. Yeah, his appetite will go out. And so what he thinks his

maintenance is right now might change. And so the advice of like, hey, eat when you're hungry, just make good choices and watch what happens. The secret to not rebounding, part of the secret is to get to your goal with the least amount of control around everything is possible. possible. Yeah. Because that's what people end up letting go. It's seamless. That causes the rebound.

Our next caller is Brock from Utah. Brock, what's up? How are you doing, Brock? It's going on. Wow. This is honestly crazy to be able to talk to you guys. I wrote out my question. So I'm going to read that because I am a rambler.

And so I don't want to ramble on and, you know, Rambling, man. Too much of your time, guys. All right. Let's do it. First of all, good morning, guys. I want to say thank you to all four of you for being such amazing role models to me and everything you do and say.

Ever since I found your podcast, shout out to Chase Churning and the Everford podcast. I have been listening and passing on all of your information to anyone that asks or that will listen to me. Since I submitted my question, a lot has changed. I have since graduated from college and I'm still looking for a job related to my degree. So I'm still working the night shift. I also no longer have a gym membership.

So I work out at home using adjustable dumbbells, a suspension trainer, and bands. I've already read and searched everything you guys talked about for night shift, but feel like I do better with MAPS anabolic style compared to MAPS 15. I don't really track calories due to some obsessive habits with that, but I focus on eating protein first and trying to eat until I feel like I'm full. And then I average about 13 or 14 steps a day while at work, but on the weekends, which is Wednesday night and Thursday night for me, those next days I'm

kind of lucky to get above 5K. So they do very kind of extreme. I'm not really looking for like aesthetics or anything. I just kind of want to have a good life and, you know, kind of like what you guys have been talking a lot about performing well. And I wanted to really just focus on weight locks. I've lost about 60 pounds since going gluten-free. about 10 months ago. I do appreciate you guys and take all of your advice and recommendations already seriously. So thank you.

It sounds like you're doing a really good job already. The quick solve on the program thing I would do based off of what you're saying, like something in between the MAP 15 and about you can you can double up the days on map 15. Yeah, do a 30. Okay. So that like, yeah, do like a MAPS 30 or about 40 minutes is probably what it really takes to do that.

And so just pair of it. So you're doing four exercises a day. And really with someone like you that has a shift like that, I would actually decide if I was going to pair it up based off of how good of sleep and how rested and how good you feel. So actually I would run like the Maps 15 protocol. But then when you have days where you're like well rested, well fed, you feel good, it's like, cool, I'm going to pair the next two days up.

Days that you're like, not so much, then I might actually do just the Maps 15. And so that's kind of how I would modify it for something like you. I think that will solve the feeling like Maps 15. isn't enough, but MAPS end of Bollic is too much sometimes. I think that will help. Yeah. Brock, real quick, you said you feel like MAPS and a bulk is better than Mast 15 for you.

What do you mean by that? More so habitually than anything. I don't know if it was the mindset of just being able to feel like I've accomplished, per se, everything, and, like, feeling like I did get a really solid work. out in. I will say I'm not like the most consistent when it comes to working out. I do a lot of things kind of sway me from stopping rather than like minimizing what I'm doing and still working out. So I'll do maps enabolic and I feel good. I feel great. And then something happens and I just stop completely. Whereas if I'm doing Maps 15, I feel like I'm still leaving stuff on the

table. Oh, well, you're wrong. If you're not a case to you're 15. I'm glad I asked. If you came back, like, oh, I get stronger. I get better performance or whatever. I'm like, all right, we'll stay with that. But, yeah, you got to just ignore your feelings. I think Mass 15 is better for you, bro. Across the board.

And just do your best to stay consistent. And you miss a day on it, then just pick back up where you left off. You'll get better results, dude. Okay. And when it comes to, listen, Brock, when it comes to consistency, I'm just going to tell you this, a little every day works better than a lot every, you know, few days. It just does over time, if I were to look at the total training that you did over six months or a year, you're trying to follow one protocol versus the other,

you're going to do more with the protocol that looks like a little bit every day. It's just how it works. And for night shift workers, it's like, bro, there's no comparison. Well, this is why I thought him pairing the 15 up, because if you have, if part of your problem is you're inconsistent with getting to the gym and you have a hard time probably getting the gym six days a week and you don't see yourself doing that. Do you have a home gym?

I just have some dumbbells and like the band and suspension trainers. And do you use those or do you just go to the gym each time? No, I use those pretty regularly. Oh, it doesn't matter, dude. Doesn't matter. Yeah, go Mass 15. Stay consistent with it. It sounds to me like the problem is you feel like it's not enough of a workout when you do it.

So are you looking for that sore feeling? Are you looking for like, Is that what you're lacking? Or like it's not enough at one time? Yeah. There are days that I get, you know, like Adam said earlier, I get a ton of sleep. I feel good.

I feel great. And I'm like, I'm ready to take on like a good solid workout. No, no. But then there are other days where, you know, no matter the amount of sleep I get, I feel like. Yeah. Here's what's happening. And also crank that intensity in a short amount of time.

Yeah. And here's what's happening to someone like you with a night shift. You're going to have those swings and energy because of your, your sleep schedule. Yeah. So it's not because one workout, because it's better to work out, you know, longer.

It's going to fluctuate a lot. In fact, you're better off leaving energy on the table when you have good energy. You'll get less of those days that you feel like you're, your dragon house. Yeah,

then consistency will be more likely for sure. Yeah, dude. It's going to give you more energy, uh, anyway, and it's going to give you less of those days where you feel like you're dragging. Okay.

So you're better off going in with a lot of energy and feeling like, man, just stopping, then you are getting after it, because that's going to contribute to more of those days where you feel like you're just dying. How is like your cravings and appetite with like the schedule and everything like that? I mean, you said you're pretty good with it and the protein.

How's your diet? My diet, my wife and I, we are focusing on whole foods. I would say it's about 90-10 whole foods. We do, like you, Adam, do have the occasional sweet tooth, ice cream is pretty amazing so but we we like our sweets here and there um my wife wants her sweet treat with after every dinner so you know we'll have something um we get like little the yogis their little fruit covered in yogurt for a sweet treat something like that okay but for the most part it's it's whole foods um do like salads bowls that kind of stuff oh good so you yeah you're good

you're good mass 15 bro which one do you have you have you have traditional mass 15 maybe a Just the traditional Maps 15. We bought it when you guys released it. We were like, well, this is going to be a good program. And we've liked using it in the past. But as I have the gym membership and, you know, moving into the night shift, kind of through everything through a loop.

What do you think? Map symmetry? Because he's got the dumbbells? Yeah. MAP symmetry 15? Yeah, I'd be up for that. All right. We're going to send you maps 15 symmetry, so you have another option.

Oh, sweet. Thanks. You got it, dude. Stay the course. So I'm like you're doing good, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet.

All right, right, right on. Yeah, I had to ask because I'm like, why is he saying he gets better? Which would be, it's possible, but with a night shift, it's less likely you'll get better results. Yeah, I was getting the impression that he struggles with being consistent lifting six days a week.

And so it was like, stay with Max 15. Sure. When that happens, you would do it. Yeah, when that happens, I would just double it up and then when it doesn't happen, then you run 15. But the other advice, too, of just always running 15 is also. Yeah, because what he's saying,

saying is like, man, sometimes I just got a lot of energy. And then sometimes I feel like I have no energy. Leave the energy on the table when you have a lot of energy. Exactly. That helps. That'll carry into the rest of the week. 100%. Our next caller is Caitlin from New York.

Hi, Caitlin. How are you doing, Caitlin? Hi, how are you guys doing? Good. How can we help you? Good. I'm super excited to be here. I just love the podcast.

Thank you so much. I learned so much and it's always so interesting. Thank you. So my question is, I'm a little nervous, so I'm going to read my email and try to stay on pace. Okay, right. I'm 42 years old. I'm about 5.5, 145 pounds.

Body fat estimate is 25%. I lift five days per week and run about five to six days per week. My goals are performance. I want faster 5K times, sprint speed, and getting stronger on squats, steadlifts, bench, and pull-ups. I also really struggle with body image. and feel pressure to weigh less and look leaner. I eat about 2,400 calories. My lips are improving.

I'm running faster, but I don't feel lean enough. I feel like I don't look like I do all the work. I have a long history of running. I always been a runner. In 2023, I started lifting, and I got into a strict calorie deficit, lost a bunch of weight,

got down to 125, and felt really good there. Since then, I've gained about 15, 20 pounds. The scale says about 7 pounds. of, like half and half muscle and fat. So I know there's been, you know, it's been productive, but I really don't like the weight. I don't like how I look. And so my question is, how do you balance training for performance while also chasing,

like, aesthetic goals? And like, how do you manage nutrition and et cetera? Caitlin, how long have you been listening to us for? Like a year and a half, two years. I feel like you know what's coming right now. I kind of do. I kind of do, yeah. Well, here, let me paraphrase.

I want to be clear. Let's paraphrase the three goals. No, no, I'm going to, yeah, just see it so I'm clear. So you want to get faster 5K time. Yes. Sprint time. You also want to get stronger on squats, deadlifts, bench press, and pull-ups, and you want to get leaner.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Is there anything you don't want to get? You want to get $10 million. You want to get $10 million. Do you get taller? You want to get taller to?

It's a lot. Okay. The only way to do all of that is if you pick one or two and focus on that and they pick the next one. So you're going to have to pick a couple. So what do you want? I hear the, I hear the aesthetic thing is the thing that seems to be bothering you. And that's, that's it, that's it. Aesthetic goal doesn't pair well with all that with all that running. It's just your, your body is adapted. Conflicting goals to everything that you are doing to it. That's why it's not responding aesthetically. I bet your performance is great. I bet you're

probably very fit and healthy and all the, all the great markers are all good, which is a great place to be if you love doing all those things. But if you, if you were a client of mine and you were doing all that stuff and you said, Adam, I just, I'm doing all this stuff and I don't like the way I look or I want to change my body. I would say, well, we're going all about it wrong. Yeah. This is not the way we change your aesthetics.

You need to block it out. So we focus on that. If you want to look a certain way and we want to do something that, that's a total different focus. And what that looks like is scaling way back on all the running, scaling way back on how much movement training, reverse dieting and building muscle to speed your metabolism up, and then getting into a cut. It looks so different than performance-based goals. Now, we'll probably get... You're not going to drop too much performance-wise, too, just FYI. You just need to shift your focus

of priority completely, so we allow the body to really respond appropriately to that. You come back, since you've been doing this for so long, your body's going to jump right back into performance with, you know, the aesthetics. The good news is we can't, we can't focus on the aesthetics and probably see incredible strength gains in the squats and the deadlift and going that direction because that's what I'd want to do. What I'd want to do with you if you were a client telling me that we want to change aesthetics. I'd say, cool, let's reverse diet and let's get strong, right? So that would be the focus would be to build some muscle, lift, get better at those lifts, you're saying? That's going to support our aesthetic goals. But we'd have to scale way back

on all the running stuff. Just so you know, too, Caitlin, the average woman performs best right around 23 to 26% body fat. Okay. That's the average woman typically. If you're looking for best performance. Yeah, you're in that. You're there. Yeah.

So getting leaner tends to decrease performance because of what's required with diet and hormones. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. And so what you don't want to do is crash your hormones and all that stuff in pursuit of all these other things. So, okay, so there's a couple ways we can approach it.

What Adam said is the more traditional one, which would like this is aesthetics first. And let's get that first. There is a way to do all of it slowly, really slow. Okay. But it looks like you're going to focus a little bit of strength training one week and then the next week a little bit on running and you're going to alternate. I heard you say that like another episode ago and I wondered if that would work. It would, but it's going to get it'll get you everything slower. So you'll kind of slowly get better at everything over time.

Like out a few months. That's right. So it would be like one day a week of strength training, four to five days a week of running, one week, the next week, four days a week of strength training, one day a week or running. Okay. Got it. So I could try that. And then I have to kind of go back for the first step that you recommended was like get strong and get lean and like take the running off to the side. That's right.

that's the more true yes that's if you're like I want aesthetics I want to see the aesthetics yeah if it's a major priority that would be the move and we're going to reverse dive and the reason why I go that way is because I actually think I bet your performance is pretty badass for I think what I think you're in optimal body fat range I think you're probably pretty fast I think you're probably doing pretty damn good performance wise we lost your camera for a second Caitlin you turn I know sorry about that I don't know why that happened um there it goes okay but I feel like at least what I'm hearing, and I could be wrong, but what I'm hearing from you is like, I do all this work and I, and I don't have the look I want. And so if a client tells me that, well, we're going about it the wrong way if we're looking for a look. And if you want to go for a look, let me handle that.

We'll go for a look and then we can always get back. And you're not going to, like Justin said, it's not you're going to also, you can't run anymore. You won't be able to do these things. But that stuff will take, that becomes less important right now. Let's go build the metabolism,

build the physique that you want. And then when you go, oh, man, Adam, I love this. I love the way I look with my legs, my arms, all the things that you care about. Then I go, cool, let's start to ramp up the running a little bit and see how it goes and see how much we can maintain this physique. And what that will probably look like is a much higher calorie intake with more muscle and you'll be fed more while you go back to more of your running. Are you hitting like at least 140 grams of protein today? Yes, definitely.

Good. Yep. Always. Okay. So it would be Maps Enabolic would be your program. Okay. And you would really run like once, twice a week. at the bottom.

Okay, drop it down to that. Okay. Way down. Yeah. And you're going to keep your protein high. Probably go up to, yeah, probably go up to about 2,500 calories. Okay. And then just get strong.

And then when you feel good, bump it up another little bit. And once you get up to like 27, 2,800 calories or more, then you can start to cut and then you'll see the fat come off. Got it. Okay. And then later on, I can go back to the running. Okay. Yes, you can.

Now, if you want, if you want, if you want, if you want, if you want, if you'll see the fat, want like coaching, if you want personal coaching, it's a much larger investment, but what a coach would do is walk you through the process step by step. You text them, hey, I feel this way. I'm going, what do I do here? And then we also have question, whatever you're doing. They got you. We also have coaches, much larger investment, but you're going to have someone coach you through the whole process. So if you want that, we could have Doug make sure someone calls you. Yeah, that would be awesome. I would love that. Okay. I'll have somebody in mind for you, so I'll have someone call you. Awesome. And then I'd love to check back in.

with you because we'll be checking up on your program as you go through it. Okay. I would love that. Thank you so much. Right on, Caitlin. Okay, take care. Bye. I love that.

I want. She's going through all, but I'm like, okay. I want the buffet. I want to start a new company. I want to make $10 million a first year, but I want to be super present with my wife and my four kids. And I want to learn a new hobby. Yeah.

Okay. Would be the grace of all time. Let's pick one right now. I mean, I feel like it's typically the aesthetic thing, right? Because somebody who's doing that much work, that's what it is. It's like you're doing all these things and you're like, I eat good, I run like crazy

and I just don't have this physique I want. And it's like, well, it's because we're going about it wrong. You're right. It's like that's not the process for the best. And again, this is obviously why I asked how long you've been listening because I feel like that's the theme of this show is that we're always telling people that cardio and running is not the best place to build a body you want. Like it's incredible, yeah, for aesthetic.

It's incredible for your heart, and it's good for being healthy and endurance. But it's a terrible way to get the body you want. If you have these goals, if I want shoulders and a butt and legs to look away, it's like, that's not how you go about doing it. And so when you get someone who's doing this much work, they feel like, man, I should feel like I look better. But she's actually right. Like, you nailed it. She's in the perfect place for performance.

Like, if your body fat percentage and she looks good, like, you're great. Like, let's, if you want to keep pushing the 5K thing and to get faster and that, we can keep doing that. You know what the problem is is that people look at the elite athletes. Yeah, I know. Everybody, stop comparing yourself to genetic anomalies. You don't, you're just so rare. The chick on the cover of the magazine. But the average, the best body fat percentage across the board generally for men, for performance is like 15, 16 percent.

For women, it's like in the mid-20s. You need those energy stories. And there are those genetic anomalies. You'll see them, they're shredded and they're playing sports. Like, you're not like that. Yeah. You're not, you're probably. like the 99.99% of us.

And it's a higher body fat percentage than having apps. It just is. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, maps' aesthetic, Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable free resources.

at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.