Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2809 : Is Cardio Ideal For Fat Loss?

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Starting point is 00:02:26 at com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Cardio can be great for fat loss for about two to three weeks. After four weeks, absolute waste of time. What do you think? I strongly agree. The body adapts really quickly to

Starting point is 00:02:44 energy expenditure in that way. About three to four weeks. Yeah, that's what the data shows, right? And it takes, so eight to twelve, you get benefits of stamina training. So when we look at it for, if you want to endurance train and get better. That makes...

Starting point is 00:02:59 That's your form of training. That makes sense. But most people are using it as a source to reduce body fat. And if that's the main goal, you get great benefits for about two to three weeks. After that, it sharply declines and becomes almost a waste of time and can be counterproductive. Yeah. Well, you know what you're going to get a lot of people right now who are like, well, I've lost tons of weight by doing lots of running.

Starting point is 00:03:23 Now, usually this is in combination with cutting their calories. But what they don't realize, and we've talked about this at least a thousand times, is that form of exercise with a reduction in calories is a recipe for muscle loss. That's right. Yeah. It really is. Now, people might ask why. Why does cardio or running plus a calorie deficit low-cal?

Starting point is 00:03:44 Why does that cause muscle loss? Is it that you're burning the muscle while you're doing all this exercise? No, that's not what's happening. It's actually quite hard to burn muscle in that way. What's happening is the body has, because cardio does burn muscle. burn a lot of calories. So this is where the, this is where people start the debate. Especially at the beginning. Yes. But it, I mean, comparison to other forms of exercise, it's the highest calorie burn. But what happens when you're burning lots of calories and you're

Starting point is 00:04:09 cutting your calories and the form of exercise that you're doing is not telling your body, we need strength and muscle, the body learns how to reduce its caloric output. It needs to be more efficient. And so it pairs muscle down. So it's like 40% of your, of your body weight loss is muscle. which sucks. You lost 10 pounds. Four of it was muscle. And now you're left with a, you know, for lack of a term, slower metabolism, which makes things a lot harder.

Starting point is 00:04:35 People disregard that we're adaptation machines where your body's going to adjust to that type of a stimulus, especially cardio, those type of demands. Like we, like, if we're just like depriving ourselves of this energy, like the first signal really is to like hold on to that energy and not expend it so frivolously. So if you think of that and that lens, it kind of makes sense why at a certain point you kind of hit that hard plateau. This is how I would tell competitors, if you had a good coach or not, it's so common in the space that these competitive coaches put their athletes, their competitors on cardio 12 weeks out from a show. Yeah. And I would tell them, it's a terrible strategy.

Starting point is 00:05:20 We are far better off manipulating it with calories. and just regular activity like movement walking around until we get to those final couple weeks where we would start to ramp up the cardio just before. And then it's so new. It's a new stimulus to the body that it responds really well for those two to three weeks. Then after that, to your point, it adapts.

Starting point is 00:05:44 It becomes efficient. And then stamina building happens. But part of what's happening when you start to build stamina endurance and you get good at it is the body's becoming more efficient at it, which is saying, hey, we don't need all this muscle to do all this running that the body's asking us to do. Let's get rid of some of this muscle because it's not efficient to have all. By the way, just to be clear before anybody gets up in arms,

Starting point is 00:06:03 like it's a form of exercise done properly. It's healthy. So we're not saying it's not healthy. We're not saying it's not a good form of exercise if you want to improve stamina and endurance. We're not saying don't ever do cardio. What we're talking about here is fat loss. And it's a terrible strategy. By the way, there are great studies that compare strength training to cardio for weight loss,

Starting point is 00:06:24 Weight loss cardio wins. Fat loss, strength training wins. What do I mean by that? Cardio in the weight loss protocol or a fat loss protocol induces muscle loss. It does enhance. It actually creates more muscle loss almost like or maybe even worse than just a pure calorie deficit. Whereas strength training preserves muscle.

Starting point is 00:06:44 And in some cases, if the calorie deficit is not too big and you have high protein, you'll see some muscle building through this process. So as far as fat loss is concerned, it's really a terrible approach. Now, if you use cardio as a way to improve your health and you want more endurance or more stamina, great, go for it. But if your number one goal is like, I want to lose body fat, you're better off doing other forms of exercise in particular strength training. And then the diet. This is why I always like to introduce normal person, not just talking about competitors, introduce cardio after my client has achieved. they're aesthetical.

Starting point is 00:07:23 Yeah. So if a client came to me and they had a bunch of body fat they wanted to lose, cardio was not a part of the protocol until we got closer to basically where they wanted to be. And then it would be to either one sharpen up a tiny bit or because they're like, hey, I want more endurance, more stamina. I've now reduced that body fat. I'm now at a place where I feel healthy and balance.

Starting point is 00:07:42 Now I want to improve that. It's great. Now let's bump your calories and let's introduce cardio. So now you're more fed and you get to build some stamina and you have the body you want. Yeah. It's not something that I would use as a tool just to get the body fat off. It's a terrible strategy to do that. Because now if I did it that way, by the way, too, and let's say you did have success,

Starting point is 00:08:01 which is what happens to a lot of some of these competitors that do out two hours of it every single day to get ready for sure. And not only that, but now in order to maintain that body that they've now achieved, they've got to maintain the two hours of cardio every single day, which is unrealistic and they're not going to do, which is why there's this massive rebound afterwards. And they put all that because they stop doing that instantly. and then there's this huge difference in calorie burn. And so this is such a terrible strategy. And yet everybody seems to do it even at the competitive level.

Starting point is 00:08:30 And it really should. In fact, there's been competitors that we never did cardio. That we got all the way down to stage presence like body fat percentage and never had to get on the elliptical and sweat or the stair master and sweat like crazy. We did it just through managing steps and calorie reduction or through even better, building your metabolism up, building a ton of money. muscle first and then coming down. It's so funny. So earlier today, we had a caller on that had done in the past five Ironman competitions and a bunch of half Iron Man's. And for people that aren't

Starting point is 00:09:02 familiar, an Iron Man competition is insane. It's like a two and a half mile almost. Grueling. Swim. It's a hundred and I think, 112 mile bike ride. And then you run a marathon. That's the whole competition. So a marathon by itself, what is it, 26 miles? You do that at the end of all the other crazy stuff. So it's just insane. It's crazy endurance training. I've had a few Ironman competitors as clients. And if I remember correctly, so these were, one of them was a man. He weighed about 165 pounds,

Starting point is 00:09:31 kind of your typical, you know, what you would consider your ideal Ironman physique, okay? He was consuming with all the training. Now, you're talking about, you know, tens of miles running and swimming. This guy was, you know, two to three hours every single day, sometimes more of exercise

Starting point is 00:09:46 to prepare for this intense, crazy competition. This guy was eating about 30, 5,500 calories a day to fuel his body. So this is 165 pound man, 3,500 calories a day in order to fuel this type of training. And his body fat was relatively lean. He was fit. He was probably walking around around 10, 11% body fat. He was doing everything right.

Starting point is 00:10:05 We did a little bit of strength training. Just kind of support what he was doing. I'm 220-pound guy, so I have a lot more lean body mass. Same body fat. My activity level is probably 100th of his. If I strength train, it's three or four days a week, 45 minutes. I don't do any of that other stuff. We're sitting down 90% of the day in the studio.

Starting point is 00:10:25 And I eat probably 500 more calories a day. Just giving an idea of the difference there. Now, of course, there's genetic variance, all this stuff. But that's a lot of activity. He should be burning, if you did the math, insane amounts of calories through that activity. Well, his body learned, and your body will learn how to become efficient with calories.

Starting point is 00:10:43 If you're asking your body to become efficient with calories, simultaneously asking it, telling it, we don't need a lot of muscle. Well, that color that we just said that we had was eating 2,500 calories to maintain where he was at and a very, very active, high training volume, all the things. Another way to show this example is this, Sal, and show you how different, how much you can manipulate your metabolism is Michael Phelps, 10,000 calories. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:09 You know, so you have this, like, the body is unbelievably efficient. And if you, if you don't give it a lot of calories and you do all this crazy activity, It will learn and it will adapt to that. But you could also get away with feeding it unbelievably when you have somebody like that that's doing that much activity. So how can people be that far off from each other? Well, that's just an example of like

Starting point is 00:11:28 how crazy adaptive the metabolism is. Is that if you continue to put it in a deficit and you push the body more and more and more and trying to burn your way down, eventually it completely slows down. It's always a terrible strategy for fat loss. Make it really clear. The best way to you exercise

Starting point is 00:11:45 is what kind of physical adaptation does this exercise induce? And that's when I'll use the exercise. What's it best for? What's that specific exercise best for? Yes. And then diet you should look at for health, fueling, and then manipulate your diet for fat loss or muscle gain. Okay.

Starting point is 00:12:03 So that's what you do. Now, can you look at exercise through the lens of fat loss? Well, you can because when you look at your diet and you're eating in a way to lose body fat, which means you're in what's called a calorie deficit. You're eating less calories in your burning. Well, the form of exercise I should pick, if my goal is aesthetic, if my goal is primarily aesthetic, I want to lose body fat,

Starting point is 00:12:21 well, I'm going to try and pick the form of exercise that's going to mitigate or block or stop or reverse whatever negative effects a calorie deficit can cause. Well, what's one of the negative effects of a calorie deficit? Muscle loss. Consistent, consistent, consistent. You go into calorie deficit, you will lose weight. A significant amount of that weight will be muscle loss.

Starting point is 00:12:40 It happens across the board. So which form of exercise should I pick? The one that's going to build endurance and standards. the one that's going to build, let's say flexibility, the one that's going to build strength. Ah, that's the one right there. The strength building form of exercise because it directly counters what happens with the calorie deficit. And again, this is why you've seen the studies for pure fat loss as a percentage of body weight loss, especially strength training is superior. And why cardio should not even be, when clients would come to me and I'd work with them, if they're, if they told me specifically, look, and they're not working out at all.

Starting point is 00:13:15 I want to get healthier. Cool. Okay, check. What else you want? Fat loss. Check. This is what we're going to do. We're going to start with strength training.

Starting point is 00:13:22 Why? Well, because strength training is going to give you some stamina. If you're sedentary now, it's going to give you some stamina. For sure. And endurance. It's going to improve your health. It's going to do those things. And it's going to help with the fat loss.

Starting point is 00:13:32 Now, if a client came to me and says, I'd want to go play basketball, I want to swim. I want to run. Like, I need that kind of stamina. Cardio is going to be a part of their protocol. Strength training will still be a part of the protocol. but cardio now is a part of the protocol. I don't look at it for fat loss. There's a lot of indirect benefits, you know, the cardio as well.

Starting point is 00:13:52 It's like, you know, especially if we're talking about fat loss, like, for the endurance component to kind of revisit like some of your workouts and have that bit of stamina to go through, you know. And so it's like it's not something that you totally eliminate per se, but if you're trying to like be specific and like this is your targeted goal of, you know, fat loss is the most objective. that's what I'm seeking the most. Like, it's not going to be your best tool for the tool.

Starting point is 00:14:21 So we get confusion, even from this podcast, even though we've been saying this forever, when it's somebody who says, I want both. Yeah. Because then that's where they feel like they're lost. Well, I don't just care about aesthetics. I also want endurance and want that. But the answer to that is still focused on the aesthetic first,

Starting point is 00:14:38 and then we can go build the stamina. Like, you're far better off doing that than trying to do both of them at the same time. It'd be far more because, to your point, while we're lifting weights and building muscle, you're going to get some stamina. If you're sedentary right now, just strength strength.

Starting point is 00:14:51 It's going to give you the stamina endurance. It's going to give you some of that, and it's going to start to build the metabolism, and it's going to get the body fat off. So it's going to benefit you on that. And then after you're in that position where you're like, okay, I've gotten to a place where I'm happily, now let's go after more endurance

Starting point is 00:15:05 and more stamina. You're way better off. Then saying, how do I do both at the same time, doing both at the same time, you're going to be robin Peter to pay Paul all the time. The problem, I think the big problem, I've said this a lot in the past. The big issue is that people look at fat loss as just the math problem.

Starting point is 00:15:23 This is the way they view it. Calories in versus calories out, which that's true. There's a trueness there. But it's not explaining how that works. It's not breaking down the nuances and how the human metabolism work and how hormones affect all that stuff. But yes, it is true that that math problem is a part of it. Now, here's where it gets messed up. All right, if it's calories in versus calcium,

Starting point is 00:15:45 calories out, well, the form of exercise I'm going to pick is the one that increases the calorie burn the most. So that should be the best one. Right. But that's not the full story because, yes, running for, look, here, running for 45 minutes will burn probably three times as many calories as lift as traditional strength any will for 45 minutes. It's true. But we're taking out the adaptation piece. Like, what does that exercise induce as far as adaptation is concerned with the body? When you consider that, well, the picture becomes much more clear.

Starting point is 00:16:14 It's not just about how many calories you burn. It's about the adaptations. Does that help me burn more calories later on on my own? Does that cause me to have to continue doing the activity in order to burn the calories? There's my body figuring it out. And does it solve the muscle loss problem? Is it going to fix the muscle loss problem that's caused by a calorie deficit? When you consider all of those things, the picture gets much, much more clear.

Starting point is 00:16:37 But if it's just calories in versus calories out, let's just burn more calories, you're going to end up in a terrible plateau, which is what happens to a lot of people, were, you know, they want to lose 30 pounds. So they just burn a lot of calories on a treadmill. They cut their calories. They get 15 pounds off. Then they hit this really hard plateau.

Starting point is 00:16:53 By the way, the 15 pounds include seven pounds of muscle. Then they're in this really hard plateau. And then they're left like this. I know, listen, if you're listening, and this is probably happened to a significant percentage of people listening right now who've tried to lose weight in the past, you hit this plateau and then you're here. Okay. I guess I got to work out more and I got to eat less.

Starting point is 00:17:13 but I'm already working out a lot. My schedule's kind of crazy. I'm doing four days a week of running or whatever. My calories are already low. I already don't like my diet. I'm already hungry. I guess to lose the next 15 pounds, I got to increase my activity,

Starting point is 00:17:27 drop my calories some more. And some of you, because you're really disciplined, hardworking, you go, all right, let's go for it. And you do it. And then you drop another seven pounds, another three pounds of that is muscle.

Starting point is 00:17:37 Now you're left with whatever. You know, you're down maybe nine more pounds of body fat to lose. But now you're in this place. We're like, this sucks. Yeah. I hate this. I'm doing all this work. I'm eating salads and chicken press and, you know, white rice.

Starting point is 00:17:49 And I don't, and I feel, I still don't feel like I look the way I should with all this work with and all this, like, a restriction with my diet. To hell with it. I want to enjoy my life. Any logical person ends up saying, I would rather, I'm already not happy with where I'm at. I'm doing all this shit. Yeah, this sucks. I'd rather be eating what I wanted, being lazy and feeling a little bit fluffier the other way. So it's such an extreme difference.

Starting point is 00:18:14 It's, you know, I, I blame our space. Oh, totally. I mean, we, the, you know, wellness, hippie-dippy side petted against the heavy science side that wants to just tout law thermodynamics. I mean, and so you've got, and you have the consumer who's like, that feels like they have to identify with one or the other. Either I totally identify with the wellness, hippie-dippy person and that's more me, or I'm super science guy. It's law thermodynamics. and so it's definitely just calories in calories out. That's what matters.

Starting point is 00:18:44 And it's like... Meanwhile, a lot of people are like, none of this is working. That's right. I remember when I first was working in gyms. So I started working in gyms 18. Like you guys, we're all young when we started working in gyms. And when you work in a gym and you love it, you're there all day long.

Starting point is 00:18:58 And so if you're there long enough, you know, after six months, you see your regulars. Okay? You recognize your regular members. And I remember, you know, I'm in the gym. I'm in there all the time. When I was first started me, I loved it so much, I was there. literally 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. 6 or 7 days a week. I'm always in there. And I would see these regulars that would come in. They'd check themselves in. I knew their names. Hi. How you doing? They'd go get changed, come out, and they'd hop on the stairmaster. And they'd be there for an hour. And they would be there all the time. And after I was there after a year, I'd see the same. And they'd look no different. No different. They'd look exactly. And what I mean by looking the same is they were probably 20 to 25 pounds overweight, sweating their butts off on these machines. Such a mystery for me when I was a young trainer.

Starting point is 00:19:42 Yeah, it was crazy. The other one, which I think was even more of a mystery to me, which blew my mind, were the group X instructors who taught four or five classes a day. And they had 15. We're drenched in sweat and were just, and they looked out of shape. And you're like, there's no way. She would bury me in that class. Like, I know she's working out. And you think, God, she must eat terrible.

Starting point is 00:20:05 That's what I thought. Yeah. She must go right out of here, right to Burger King. and just like hammer food. So you know what I used to do. It wasn't that. So what I used to do is because that's what I thought. I remember when I first trained.

Starting point is 00:20:14 I first got my first group back constructor. When I was an early trainer, I thought, man, those members must eat the worst diets ever. But then you get to know them. You talk to them. And I talked to one guy and, you know, they knew I was a trainer and then a fitness manager. And so I was talking diet. And the first guy's telling me what he's eating. You know what I'm thinking?

Starting point is 00:20:30 Lie. Lies. There's no way that's what you're eating. There's no way. Underestimating. And then I talked to another one. Same thing. Lies.

Starting point is 00:20:37 By the fourth or fifth. I was like, are they all lying to me? This can't be right. This doesn't make any sense. Meanwhile, I'm a trainer, personal training people, and I'm focused on strength training, mainly because at the time, because as a trainer, what a waste of time to have a client do cardio while I'm watching. I know.

Starting point is 00:20:55 I was like, get them strong at least. So strength training, let me take you out in the gym. And I'm watching my clients get leaner, get more fit, they're eating more than the people on the cardio. And then I started to piece this together. Oh, oh, maybe it's the form of exercise. And same thing with my group X-instructors. But yeah, it's so funny because you look back at that.

Starting point is 00:21:15 I was so confused by it. Why is this working? Because to your other points of like the whole math problem, it's like calories in now. So you start looking at things that burn. And so you look at and then we used to like track it. And you're like, okay, whatever it's telling me on the cardio equipment, like you could see it.

Starting point is 00:21:32 You know, this is actually burning whatever 250 calories or some like arbitrary number that's probably not even. close to be inaccurate. And then you look it up and then you look at this, I forget whatever book it was, it would start like highlighting each exercise,

Starting point is 00:21:46 what you actually burn from weight training and it wasn't even close. And so you start leaning more towards like the cardio to handle the fat to then build them up and the strength once you get the fat off. I know.

Starting point is 00:21:57 It was, this is why the Stairmaster got so popular because of the calorie burn. Because on the machine itself, it gave you the highest number. Yeah, yeah. And people get drenched and sweat.

Starting point is 00:22:05 Which, by the way, people need to know this. Cardio manufacturers would change the number. Once they realized that people would pick the cardio that showed the highest calorie burn because nobody checks, nobody cares. It's not like a scientist come in

Starting point is 00:22:18 and go, actually elliptical is burning. It's a, he just put it up there. So they would literally, cardio manufacturers would make sure that their machines showed higher calorie burn because they knew that more people would use it. Yeah, yeah. Did you hear the clip,

Starting point is 00:22:30 or did you listen to the clip, the Dorian Yates? Oh, where he was talking to Huberman? Yeah. So I watched some of that. Did you watch what he talked about how he does his cardio? No.

Starting point is 00:22:39 Six minutes? No. Oh, I wish you would have watched it. I wanted to talk about it. I didn't see that one. It's why sent it to you, guy. Well, you know why? Because I saw so many clips.

Starting point is 00:22:45 It was only a minute and a half. He'd listen to it. It's too long. He taught, maybe Doug could pull it up because it's literally only a minute and a half for us to listen to you because I was super intrigued by this. And I guess there is a, they call it, they call it, um, one minute. I think, yeah, one minute of cardio. And it is three bouts of all out, 20 seconds.

Starting point is 00:23:07 So it ends up being a, it's called one minute cardio, but it's six total minutes. And it's basically three. So it's interval essentially. It's three, 20 second all outs. And he breaks down, like, the benefits and the research to compare it to, like, an hour worth of cardio. Yeah. And the amount of calorie burn and benefits and everything that you get.

Starting point is 00:23:26 And it's, and I believe it's, it's called. And I've not familiar with that specifically. I have never. But I am familiar with the data around that form of cardio. Yeah, I'm familiar with, like, the data around. to hit cardio. We've talked about this before and familiar. I didn't even, I've never heard of this and I heard Dorian Yates talking about with Huberman. It's, it's got huge V-O-2 Max benefits, health benefits, stamina benefits. Here's the problem though. If you take most everyday people and you have them

Starting point is 00:23:55 sprint all out for 20 seconds, it's inappropriate for them. It's just a fact, you guys. Well, he's, he's actually pitching it on the, on the, what, your thing you like. Oh, the Liptical? No, no, no, no, what you really like. Oh, oh, salt bike. Salt bike, thank you. Yeah, I don't think it's inappropriate because of the technique. Salt bike would make sense. I think it's inappropriate.

Starting point is 00:24:17 Did you find it, Doug, for me? Yeah, I found a clip. Oh, I haven't. You don't have it. Okay. You still got a cardio anyway. Play it because I want Sal to hear it, and so it's... Oh, we got to hear it.

Starting point is 00:24:26 Yeah, we're going to play it. Yeah. I'll play the one you sent. Yeah. And you can just clip it in, Dylan. Yeah, I just thought, you know, it made me want to go listen to the whole interview, so I could hear Huberman and him go back and forth on it.

Starting point is 00:24:40 But what caught my attention was, you know, comparing it to like a whole hour of cardio, I thought was really fascinating. And done on that bike, for your point, risk versus reward. No, it's not the technique that I'm worried about. It's literally the exertion. Well, I mean, the average, well, yeah, he's like, watch. Here go. Six minutes. Like on an air bike.

Starting point is 00:25:02 It's my favorite because it engages every muscle, push, pull, legs. If you do a 20 second all out, you got on the side of the thing and see how much watch you're generating. So now you have a target to hit or exceed every time. So do a minute, minute and a half warm up, whatever. Feel warm? All out. Balls out like the devil's chasing you for 20 seconds.

Starting point is 00:25:22 First one's tough, but it's okay. Go down slowly for a minute. Do the second one all out. The second one's really tough, yeah? The third one is, I've never met anybody that wants to do one after the third one, because literally you can't breathe. And the benefits from that, again, I think there's a book called The One Minute Cardio.

Starting point is 00:25:40 It's a bit tricky because it's not really one minute. It's one minute of sprints, but it's six minutes in total. And they compared that to 45 minutes of steady cardio on a treadmill or whatever it is. And the results are more or less the same. So it was 45 minutes. I thought it was 60, but still. But still. So yes, but think of the typical client.

Starting point is 00:26:01 The average 40-something-year-old that comes in and trains with our trainers. and have them go all out 20 seconds. No. It's not, it's going to, it's not going to be good for. Again, I found this. For someone who's fit, really fit. Yeah, I found this more interesting for us. Yes.

Starting point is 00:26:15 So. Oh, that's totally. Yeah, my average client, um, I mean, we're all huge fans of steps and lists, right? Like getting them on there for 45 minutes, just, just the movement of that. I think it, there's lots of benefits just moving the body. It's also recuperative. Yeah, that's what I mean. The benefits of moving the body for 45 minutes.

Starting point is 00:26:33 but coming from this, I'm like, oh, this is an interesting strategy. And I've actually never heard. You know what's funny about that. I was doing that just kind of intuitively anyways. Well, it's basically hit training from how he's describing it. I might have gotten a little longer than that. But, you know, just because of the salt bike, it isn't as like impact you're in. So it's not like quite as bad.

Starting point is 00:26:54 But yeah, your average person doesn't even know how to move fast yet. No. You have to get all the pre. Here's the other thing, too. Curses to that. For a lot of people, I'm one of these. because I know the way they're selling it. Six minutes versus 45 minutes, right?

Starting point is 00:27:06 Oh my God, I'd much rather do six. I wouldn't. I'd much rather do 45 minutes and listen to something and go, you tell me to do something like that. I got to psych yourself off. To your point, there's a lot of recuperative benefits to moving the body for, I mean, one of my favorite things to walk when I walk 45 minutes is post-meal.

Starting point is 00:27:24 And so I'm getting the digestive benefits. I'm getting the meditative benefits. It's relaxing to actually do that. So there's a calming part. And I, you know, to the conversation that we just had, I feel like getting people to de-stress and calm down, that is definitely not a strategy for that. I thought it was interesting. I still don't think that changes, whatever changed my recommendation for. But for fit, healthy people, it could be something interesting.

Starting point is 00:27:49 I know Justin would love that because he loves, he's got two gears. Yeah. All out or stop. That's probably why I was inclined to do that. Yeah, that are like jump rope or like, punching and kicking stuff. How can I do cardio angrily? Yeah. You're being angry.

Starting point is 00:28:03 Yeah, but then, like, even as, like, an older now, it's like, in that conversation we just had talking about, like, the amount of time throughout your day you should be in parasympathetic. And to think about that, like, just the, the little stuff that you don't think is, like, compounding on the stress you already have. I know. Just, just looking at your phone and, you know, carrying that all day long. You're really not in good parasympathetic state unless you're intentionally doing it. I can't wait for the audience to hear that interview that we just did. I thought that was a really fun. That one got me a bit.

Starting point is 00:28:33 Good conversation, you know, from a doctor from both sides, right? So really cool to hear. And just validate, too, what we communicate a lot to the people that call into this show. Yeah. And we get a lot of flack from our space, normally from young, naive trainers that think they're really smart. Oh, these guys are always telling people do less, do less. Well, you know what that comes from. It's because you're weak.

Starting point is 00:28:59 Yeah, yeah. It's a lack of experience. A bunch of boomers. Get your canes out. Scott, he's a doctor. He's a licensed physician, but he also works in preventative. And he works with a lot of people. And if you're a trainer and you've been training people for a decade and you work with a lot of people, you're going to sound like us.

Starting point is 00:29:19 That's this. You have that experience. But if you're young and you're new and you just became a trainer and you're just reading the science and you just train yourself and you're 23 years old or whatever, yeah, you're going to be like, no, get after it. That's what you got to do because that's what works. Yeah. And it's like, that's not how it really works. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:34 And Dorian Yates says, I love Dorian. And I all respect. I mean, he's a character, dude. He's one of my, I grew up in the 90s,

Starting point is 00:29:41 uh, and that's when I was into bodybuilding and he was Mr. Olympia and he's awesome. He, but he communicates strength training from his lens. And he does a good job. And it's hard to argue against the guy that wants Mr. Olympia,

Starting point is 00:29:54 you know, that many times. Yeah. But he argues it from that lens and basically says, anything around. volume with training, anything around frequent. Like, it's all garbage. It's only intensity.

Starting point is 00:30:05 And, I mean, I'd hate to tell him to his face because he was like, I won Mr. Olympia. What about you? But it's just, it's just, that's not, that's not the truth. That's not the real truth. There's some value in what he says. Yeah. But that's not.

Starting point is 00:30:17 It's a small, it's a small, like that's, again, that was interesting to me for me. Like, I thought that was an interesting, like. Did you hear Dorian talk crap about Israel? No, no, no. So Mike Israel tell. So somebody asked Israel tell about Mike Menser and about his method of training. And so the way that Israel Tell countered it, he was trying to be funny, as he's like, he did a little science, right? And then because Mike Menser is like the originator, one of the bodyblowers that popularized that style of training where it's like one set all out.

Starting point is 00:30:48 Heavy duty, right? That's it. And so he's like, and I look way better than Mike Menser. And he got blasted for that. So everyone's like, you look like a fat piece of crap compared to Mike Metzer and Dorian. just roasted. Like, if you're going to debate a bodybuilder about science, what you don't bring up is if you look,

Starting point is 00:31:06 that you look better. That's why they're pro-bodybuilders. I know. So that's like, you're going to lose the argument, bro. No matter how good your science is. I got to, I got to fight.

Starting point is 00:31:14 Was it on that interview or was a different one? Yeah, dude. I think it was that one, but I heard him in some other interviews where he's just, yeah, he's talking about. You said you think that a Huberman worked with him. Is that true? Do you know?

Starting point is 00:31:23 I believe Huberman, Dorian, trained Huberman, for a couple sessions or something like that. So they have a relationship. like your dream. I would, I mean, I just want to hang out with it. That's why I mean, that's why I don't think because he's going to teach you so much about fitness and health. You know, that's a good question.

Starting point is 00:31:36 Is there anybody at this stage of our life? Hell no. There's nobody would, like, you would want to, hell no. I wouldn't like to work out with somebody, much less I want someone telling me what to work out. Fuck off. Are you kidding me? I don't even want to work out with you.

Starting point is 00:31:48 Much less you tell me what I need to do. Stop it. Isn't that funny? Well, I mean, listen. That's like the first thing like people want to do. You're, like, there's no, like, pro-athlete. There's nobody. There's nobody. Okay. Okay, unless there is, okay, unless you were like, okay, you, you admitted your stuff that you're going through right now.

Starting point is 00:32:06 Like, I could see you hiring me or somebody, not because I'm going to teach you something, but because for the- You're going to make me do what I want. Yeah, right, the psychological accountability. You know my, you know him best, right? It's like that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know exactly where I won't. Yeah, exactly. And it's not because I'm going to teach you anything, right? Or even tell you, but I would tell you what. you know you already need to do, I think. So I think that would be the only reason why I would see.

Starting point is 00:32:32 But you know what I mean? There's no like celebrity, like a bodybuilder, athlete that you'd be like, not really, huh? No. I can't think of it. Yeah. And it's not because I know more than the person. You don't care. I tell you what.

Starting point is 00:32:43 I tell you what. I don't have a conversation. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. So I think of like a conversation like a Scott who we just had with. Oh. Like he's not going to teach me anything in the weight room.

Starting point is 00:32:51 No. But having him like. Break down your health. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, tell the. Between sets. He's like just.

Starting point is 00:32:57 Yeah, yeah. Educating me on like, like, you know, take this today because you're going to go fly and do this. And then tomorrow, like, I could geek out on that. You guys want to know who my wife told me I should hire her to tell me? Corinne. Oh, wow. She's like, you should hire Corinne.

Starting point is 00:33:11 I'm like, yeah, she's going through things. Well, I mean, indirectly, that's hiring me. And she would tell you, and she knows that you'd be the worst person. I get in a fight, dude, is what would happen? No way. No way. You would leave and be so frustrated with it. No, I would.

Starting point is 00:33:25 Yeah, you would. Yeah, you would. You get frustrated me anyway. Let alone try to train me, dude. I don't know. That might be a little volatile. I don't know. It just was an outsider.

Starting point is 00:33:34 I feel like you would. I feel like Corinne would be too nice and sweet. Like you need someone to tell you. Which is why I would do what she says. Because I would. Yeah. Because I know I could dominate her. Sal Rubell, dude.

Starting point is 00:33:45 Yeah. When she leaves, they go do something else. I mean, that client? No, I don't do any extra exercise. Yeah. That's not what's happening. She's all you sure look like you're pump to me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:55 No, dude. Hey, you guys, so they just dropped the, okay, so Reda 2 tried, Redatutride. Oh, is it out? Officially? Oh, okay. No, you guys know. Retta 2 try. This is a GLP 3.

Starting point is 00:34:06 Okay, so. The Bills muscle. Well, so the first GLP drugs were what we're called GLP ones. Okay, so they act on one, the third agonist. One receptor. I'm not going to get in the science, mainly because I don't understand it. Then there's the GLP twos. So you have somaglutide is a GLP one.

Starting point is 00:34:23 Tersepetide is a GLP two. In the study. studies terseptide causes more weight loss. And less muscle loss. And less muscle loss. So then the companies are like, well, can we hit more resellers? Can we hit more recess? So red at true tide is a, you can only get it as a research chemical right now.

Starting point is 00:34:42 I don't recommend you do that. You don't know what you're getting. But it's in the studies. And then there's lots of bodybuilders and people we know. Of course. Who've used it. But they've come out with the trials. And you want to know what's crazy about these trials?

Starting point is 00:34:54 Yes, here. Is this just humans? and not just rats. This is human trials. You can phase two trials. In fact, I think I saved some of the, an article on it.

Starting point is 00:35:02 Dude, it's actually a commercial for rat, uh, for rat, uh, retitut. So if it's in phase two, Sal,

Starting point is 00:35:08 what's realistic when it, when, when you can get it through a real pharmacy, how far out? Well, they've got a, what's a prediction? They've got,

Starting point is 00:35:16 they still have to go through phase, no, it's actually phase three. Sorry. It was a phase three trial. So depending on how the, the FDA views these trials, these trials, if it passes, then it can become a drug.

Starting point is 00:35:29 It can be something that we can... Now, Ozempic, Monjaro, are they all still on GLP1? Or have they actually jumped on the GLP? So, some agglutide and terseptide are the chemical names. I don't know what the brand... I know Zempec is some agglutide.

Starting point is 00:35:42 I think Monjaro's tersepetide, if I'm not mistaken. No, look that up, because I don't know if they've jumped to Trezepetide. No, some have. Yeah, yeah. Have they? Yeah, I don't know. I know you can get those.

Starting point is 00:35:53 No, no, actually a big brand. Okay, that's what I'm wondering. I wanted, because last I knew, OZempic was still messing with semi-glutide. No, yeah, semaglutide is, that's the first one. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. So Reda-Trutide came out, and they're doing research on it, and it's called, and again, it's a GLP3, and phase two trials are crazy. Phase three trials come out.

Starting point is 00:36:15 Bro, say, just trip off this, okay? A significant percentage of the people dropped out of the study. So these are participants. Let me drop that. They quit. And this is one of the things of a trial. Will people drop out because of side effects or because of, do you want to know why?

Starting point is 00:36:32 Okay. So a significant percentage dropped out because, you ready for this? Yeah. Excessive weight loss. They were losing too much weight. That's like a commercial. Like that's going to sell. That's crazy.

Starting point is 00:36:46 Yes. Because it caused such a crazy amount of weight loss. Now, the bodybuilders and the people I know who take Red of Trutide, they're like, comparing it to terseptititis somaglacly, they're like, it's Godzilla in comparison. It's so effective. So I have a friend who did a bodybuilding competition went on retet, true tide.

Starting point is 00:37:05 What does that say right there? Yeah, so Zep bound and Monjaro or terseptide. That means Zepin can still use in the original one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Snaglite. So. And overdosing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:15 So what I think they're going to do is mess with the doses, maybe lower the dose because it's so powerful or whatever. But I have a buddy who did a bodybuilding competition. he did read a Trutide and he's like dude he goes and now by the way you're talking about pro bodybuilding these guys are insane

Starting point is 00:37:34 with how low the calories get the cardio it's just insane they're hitting stage shredded it's not healthy he's like dude he goes you know he's done a lot of competition I'm not gonna say too much because everyone will know who it is

Starting point is 00:37:44 but he's like bro he goes he goes zero appetite yeah he's like zero he goes in fact I knew that I knew that with your appetite I mean there's a part of me that wants to show the audience because I did the first one for like really to show like for and get perspective for training normal ass people and so that was the goal I could absolutely

Starting point is 00:38:05 I could absolutely take that uh with the strategy of how do I use this to get shredded and I know I would I would manage the dose a little bit different and and I would hit it right with that sweet spot where I still have an appetite and I can get what I need to but it just I'm there. I remember how much it just completely eliminates the noise. I had no cravings for junk food. And that is when you are dieting for a show and training that consistently in a deficit for that long, you have dreams about food all the time.

Starting point is 00:38:38 I mean, all the time I thought about food for weeks and weeks and weeks. And so to quiet that noise would be the, like, it would make competing so much easier. Oh, God. That's the hardest part. The hardest part of, the hardest part of competing is, is the diet. Of course.

Starting point is 00:38:55 It's not the training part. Lifting weights and showing them to the gym. A lot of people love that. It is literally, and if you know programming, that's the easy part. The hard part is can you,

Starting point is 00:39:04 you know, just tough it out. Lots would always deterred me from me and stay locked in dialed to the calorie for months. And that is what that separates the people that can get up there and do that. And if I, if I was using something like that to quiet that,

Starting point is 00:39:20 oh, do you know what the average weight loss was for the people in the study? There's 445 people, 28% of the body weight. So we have, like, tell me that. I want to know the muscle. I want to know the muscle. I don't have that.

Starting point is 00:39:32 That's what I want to. I don't have the data on that. But earlier data that I saw showed less muscle loss than the other. I remember that's what they originally, when we were at Dr. C's convention, that's what they were hyping. Yeah, they're alluding to it. Let me put it to this way. A 300 pound person, theoretically, with this average weight loss, through this trial,

Starting point is 00:39:52 would have lost 84 pounds. And what period of time? Oh, God, I should see how long the study went. That's a six, 12. No, no, no, no. It was a longer study. I got to look up and see how long that was. But, bro, that's wild.

Starting point is 00:40:06 That is so wild. I got to look at 72 weeks. So how long is 72 weeks? What is that? 52 weeks a year. Oh, so it was over a year. Oh, wow, they did it over a year long study. So they're staying on it for a while.

Starting point is 00:40:17 Oh, I really want to know what the muscle is then. So do I. Yeah, that's, to me, that's. Dude, how crazy is it that obese people in the study, we're like, I got to stop this. I lost too much already. Yeah. That sounds to me like a commercial.

Starting point is 00:40:29 Well, that also alludes to me that they knew that they were losing a ton of muscle. Yeah. That's why you would drop out. Yeah. You don't drop out because you're losing too much fat. You drop out because you recognize that you're worried about it. Yeah, you're being worried that you're losing a lot of muscle. Yeah, dude.

Starting point is 00:40:42 Yeah. Isn't that crazy? That's wild. I know so many normal people that are using it right now. That's the part that's crazy to me. People who need to lose like 15 pounds, 10 pounds. Don't put me on a chel people. There's no reason for that.

Starting point is 00:40:54 I mean, if it's a massive... I know people who don't need to lose any weight who go on it because they just... I don't want to... I don't want to think about food. What? Wow. Okay.

Starting point is 00:41:05 It does take... There is a part, and I guess, you know, what is the balance of this here, right? Because there's the hedonistic value of food, right? Of course. There's something to say it. What happened to discipline? Like, it ruined ice cream for me. Like, I mean, I remember on it, like, let me try.

Starting point is 00:41:20 It's like, oh, my God, I don't even want this. I'm like, that's terrible. I love this. Like, so it's an interesting... Ice cream is all sad. It is. Come back to me back. It ain't.

Starting point is 00:41:29 But it'll come right back, though. It'll come right back. Yeah, yeah. You feed it a couple times and then you're buggo, oh, yeah, I remember this. Hey, change your subject. Men's Health did, like, this survey thing about skin care products. Do you guys want to know who got first place? Who got best for anti-aging?

Starting point is 00:41:46 Caldera Lab. I should hope it's Caldera. Caldera Lab. Is that a new article? Carder. In Men's Health magazine, named the Hydrolayer, the best for anti-ageage. I don't even use that way. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:55 So hydro layer is pure moisturizer. So it's a moisturizer. Okay. And I mean, it's, so that's the one my wife uses. So I have the hydro layer. We have the serum.

Starting point is 00:42:07 And she likes the hydro layer. And she's like, dude, I put it on. It's like the best moisturizer I've ever used. What does that say there, Doug? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:14 So it has exosomes. It says over a trillion, exosomes. Hyerloronic acid, polyglutamic acid, and peptide growth factors. Oh, I didn't know they have a subscription. I don't know they have a subscription model.

Starting point is 00:42:28 You can save 20%. Oh, wow. That's really good. I didn't know that. Yeah. So, but I mean, Caldera Lab went from like new company to dominating. Oh, yeah. In such a crazy top brand in that space, for sure.

Starting point is 00:42:42 Clinical, look at those clinical trials. They come out and they're just, they crush. What I like about, here's the thing, what I like about Caldera Lab. We haven't had, we haven't had their founder on the show, have we? No. That's a good, that's true. It would be an interesting story. It would be an interesting story because they went after a market that kind of didn't exist. Yeah. It was men's skin care.

Starting point is 00:43:01 I mean, it's much like Viori, if you look at the parallel of that. That's true. Serving the male market. What else could we do? Let's think about this, guys. What's a market? Yeah, what's, we're not making. We're not doing makeup, you guys.

Starting point is 00:43:12 Men's makeup? No. You know some companies have tried that? Really? Yes. Some companies in the past have tried a little bit. I think their peak was the egg. Only if you bring back glam metal or something.

Starting point is 00:43:23 If there was one of us that have tried it, Doug's tried it. Doug has tried it. One year for Halloween. They have it. One year for Halloween, we were dressing up. I dressed up as a vampire and I put eyeliner on, you know? On my eyes were off. And I looked to the beard.

Starting point is 00:43:37 I was like, whoa, dude. I look like a magician. Like Chris Angel all of a sudden. Mysterious. I think I sent you a Chris Angel spoof video. Oh, yeah, yeah. I missed the Justin D. I was like crazy.

Starting point is 00:43:49 There was Chris A. I can't get a, by the way, too. What? Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's funny. It's a real thing. What? No. That's a real company. That's men's makeup?

Starting point is 00:43:58 Yes. Yes. Stop it. Shut your face right now. Yes, it's true. What are you going to put on his makeup as a guy? What are you going to put on your face? What are they got?

Starting point is 00:44:05 There's no manly dude. There's no. There's no. Blush. Brow darkener. They're like enhancing your manly features. Shine eraser. Quick cover.

Starting point is 00:44:15 Go to the top. Show the guy. Show the guy. Show the guy. Yeah, no. Well. Well. Yeah, what was he doing in his eyebrows?

Starting point is 00:44:21 I could tell something. Look, he looks sad. He looks sad. I wonder how it does. See if it's a growing market. Oh, my God. I don't even want to say the name of the company because I don't want to give him.

Starting point is 00:44:33 Dude. I mean, there's so, it's more than one brand. Well, yeah, so see if it's a growing market. Does that eye shadow? Yeah. What is going on? You guys. It's like concealers, largely.

Starting point is 00:44:45 So, like, covering up. It says makeup for men. It is makeup for men. Well, yeah. Also, thinking of you know that Or like high heels for short dudes. I'm thinking about trying this under eye concealer. Popped up A, popped up in his search really fast.

Starting point is 00:45:00 He didn't even finish typing. He didn't even finish typing. He put M and then makeup for men and pop right up. Welcome back. I've been found out here. He was at home after work. I got like one of those little tissues and put my lips.

Starting point is 00:45:19 I know. Hey, really compact. I knew he was cheating, bro. I knew he was cheating, bro. I knew he was cheating to look that young. How funny would it be if, like, we all, like, did makeup, like, men's makeup went home, didn't say anything? Like, what would your wife say? We don't look at clown. You know, it's not uncommon, though, if you're on, in films and things like that.

Starting point is 00:45:37 On TV. Hey, I'll tell everybody right now. That is funny that we don't. Watching us on camera, there's zero makeup on our faces. I look this ugly for real. Yeah. Everybody can tell us out. We realize that, you guys.

Starting point is 00:45:48 They look at. Justin, do you live outside? I'm cracking as we speak. What's going on here? Oh, God. Anyway, hey, do you guys, have you guys seen the studies? I'm sure you haven't. Where do you guys?

Starting point is 00:46:01 Sure you have. Hey, you guys. Piss off, bro. That's a low blow, man. Have you guys? You sound like Gavin Newsom there. Have you? Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:12 Hey, that clip was a little bit. I'm just like you guys. I'm dumb. It's going viral. You're already making so many. He's a PR person. He's such a snake. Actually, I've been paying his PR person.

Starting point is 00:46:23 Yeah. Taxes, well. All right. So, there's, uh, where do you guys keep your toothbrushes in the bathroom? Where's your toothbrush?

Starting point is 00:46:28 A little cup thing. Out in the open, out in the air? Yeah. How about you, Justin? For what? Your toothbrush?

Starting point is 00:46:34 Uh, yeah. I know where this is going. I know where this is going. Fecal matter, dude, is on your toothbrush. I've heard this. If you flush your toilet, if you don't close your toilet,

Starting point is 00:46:42 it's got to be, how far wet? You got a pretty big bathroom. It's pretty far. Bro, do you know how far the spray goes? Doug, look up how far does the, what do you call it, the spray from toilet flushing? How far does that reach?

Starting point is 00:46:53 Yeah, mine's pretty far away, bro. You would be shocked. That's like saying if someone has their toothbrush in their bedroom, it's going to get, it's going to get that. Well, that's how, I mean, mine's far away. It's pretty far away. Dude, you have it on your phone anyways. What?

Starting point is 00:47:04 Poop. Poop face. I know for sure. Talk about your own phone. That's why I always talk on speaker phone. Yeah. What? Oh, you know, on your face?

Starting point is 00:47:13 Yeah. It says it can go up to five feet. Oh, see, I'm good, bro. You're further... Oh, five feet. All right. Yeah, my sinks. Mr. Adam.

Starting point is 00:47:19 Yeah. At least 30-foot bathroom. No, my bathroom's not that big. No, it's not that big. It's not that big. But it's definitely more... Hey, hey. Down the gold tile.

Starting point is 00:47:27 Now, listen, when I had my condo, when I had my condo in my bathroom was definitely like that. Yeah, yeah. So a lot... If you live in a condo, you probably absolutely have a... He's trying to be relatable right now. I was poor. Yes.

Starting point is 00:47:39 I used to be poor. Whatever Gavin. Whatever. Whatever Gavin. Just like you. Oh, my bathroom. There's no way the poop touches my toilet. Bro, I got to call my wife from one end of the other.

Starting point is 00:47:48 Well, you're silly, bro. You have to factor that. To say something like that with a study, there's got to be some sort of a range that they're doing that with. Because... Average bathroom. Although my bathroom is not any... I have a small bathroom, actually.

Starting point is 00:47:59 You do not have... Relative to my house and everything else, it's not big at all. It's not... Put his mouth from. Listen, my house is huge. My bathroom should be huge here. It's not.

Starting point is 00:48:09 You have... No, Doug has a big... It feels like a mile. Doug has the biggest thing. Hey, the guy with at least a big of him. The guy with the least amount of people has the biggest house. Not yet. Have you got a new place yet? Yes.

Starting point is 00:48:18 I have it. Are you there? Not there. No. He's got two houses. He's got it. His square footage is like, hey, so what are you going to do with the West Wing?

Starting point is 00:48:26 What are you going to stay on one side? I'm going to put a velvet rope there. Intercom. You got to throw parties, dude? I will. I will. You can get your toothbrush. I just,

Starting point is 00:48:40 I just pictured Doug and his pajamas running down the hall. Is your toilet within five feet of your sink? Let me think. Yeah. Oh, it is? Yeah, probably. Oh, wow. Yeah, probably.

Starting point is 00:48:51 I just, I rinse it in the toilet because I don't mess around. Nice. Might as well do that. So, no, toilet bowl water is actually supposed to be really clean. Not toilet bowl water. Yes. The stuff in the top. You're talking about the tank.

Starting point is 00:49:01 The tank, yeah. Not the, what have you done? Yeah, not in the bowl. What do you mean? Why wouldn't the bowl be clean? Well, what do you mean? You have to ask. Hold on a second.

Starting point is 00:49:10 Hold on a second. Please, what do you have the toilet water about? Just like the dogs. You have a look on your face like you're just, uh-oh. I'm not borrowing your toothbrush. You said a good place to scoop out and drink at night. No, no, no, no. If there's ever an emergency, the tank water.

Starting point is 00:49:26 The tank of the top. Yeah. The tank, not the wool. I feel that looks way grosser. Oh, no. What? Have you ever lived at the back of that? Nobody poops on that, though.

Starting point is 00:49:35 Yeah, that's the thing, unless you do upper decker, which would be just messed up. That's the worst. Don't upper deck anybody. Unless you really. You'll never fix that. No. I throw away your toilet. Yeah, no, it's not toilet bowl.

Starting point is 00:49:46 The bowl water is not clean. So your place that is that you're within five feet, huh? Yes, I'm sure. So you brought up a study that only affects you. No. Yes. Well, he was worried about it. Yes.

Starting point is 00:49:56 Are you? Are you within five? No, no, it's probably like, maybe like eight, ten. It's like 99% of the people listening. So do you guys, like, now we're trying to downplay the money. Try to make me look like a total asshole. I've got this massive out. I do not.

Starting point is 00:50:10 I'm not. In fact, I've got a PS3. Do you have a TV in your bathroom? No. Okay. No, no, no, I don't. That's good. I don't.

Starting point is 00:50:17 I don't. I wanted one. You have a TV in your closet? I do. Oh, you're such a girl. Whatever. You know how cool that is? Play sports where I'm hanging out of my clothes?

Starting point is 00:50:24 His closet is pretty cool, dude. You've been in it? No. Get into Adams closet. It's a secret club, dude. With all his shoes. He showed me, yeah. No, I'm cool, dude.

Starting point is 00:50:37 Sal doesn't care about any of that stuff. I mean, this guy shits next to his toothbrush. That's the shirt. He's content with that. But if you close the seat when you flush, that's what you need to do. That was the whole point of what I'm trying to say, you guys, is close the seat. So this is a PSA. Don't leave the seat up and fly.

Starting point is 00:50:53 I know you like to watch it go down, Justin, but put the seat down. You know what I mean? Like, woo. Yeah. That's the hack. All right. So I want to talk to you guys about, so one of our partners, Roe, I want to talk about liposomal technology, which has been around for a long time.

Starting point is 00:51:10 And it's one of their, one of the, one of the, one of the. they're selling points. And so I brought up some, just some stuff on liposomal technology, which I think, you know, people need to know about. So liposomes are essentially, they're microscopic bubbles of essentially a type of a fat. Fossilipid that surrounds the compound and it protects it and brings it to target tissues. By the way, they use this for drugs. So pharmaceuticals who use liposomal technology. but with supplements, I looked up the data. Do you know how much increases bioavailability?

Starting point is 00:51:44 Oh, a bunch. Five to ten times. Yeah. Five to ten times. You know, I never heard about that until like maybe a few years ago. I feel like so many supplements companies are now moving in that direction. I'll give you an example. Glutothion.

Starting point is 00:51:56 If you take glutathione and it's not liposomal, you're wasting your time. Yeah, it's a total waste. In fact, the old way of taking glutathione only used to be injection. Because if you took it orally, you get no, no, no rise in glutathione in your system. It was just a complete waste of time. Liposomal glutathione definitely works because it's encapsulated.

Starting point is 00:52:17 And so what Roe does with their products, they have creatine, NAD, they have glutathione, they have magnesium. All of them have this liposomal technology. So if you use those things in other ways and then you try rows, you're probably going to get better absorption. Well, we've been on the liposomal glutathione kick for a while.

Starting point is 00:52:35 But I like Roe better because it's in the bottle and you can just squirt it in. Yeah. It's so much more convenient. Yeah. And I've been consistent with that too. You just reminded me that. No, it's good.

Starting point is 00:52:45 That hadn't done today. That's good. All right, I got one more study for you guys. That we probably haven't read. It's making, yeah, you guys don't know this. There's no way. I'm just kidding. You guys might have seen this actually.

Starting point is 00:52:53 It was a study on homeschool versus, you know, kids going to traditional school and how well they do with their tests. Who does better? Home school kids or public school kids? For sure. You know. It's not close. Way better, guys. I'd like to see private school

Starting point is 00:53:10 throwing out of age. Yeah. Because I think, I think, uh, like, public school struggles big time against both of those. Both homeschool and private schools. But home school kids just generally crush in comparison to other kids, even private school kids. Do you think it's more, is it against private school kids? Even private school kids.

Starting point is 00:53:30 Oh, I'd like to see that. Now, private school kids tend to outperform public school kids. I would like to see, you know what I like to see. But homeschool kids typically do the best. I have a thing. theory that the, like, okay, what do you think is the, I think the biggest factor of that. I don't think it's curriculum. Whoever's teaching in that home.

Starting point is 00:53:47 I don't think that. So I think it's two things. I know what you're going to say. Home school parents really pay, they really pay attention or involved. So, okay. So that plays the biggest role. Well, I think that plays the one. I think it's the ratio of kid to teacher.

Starting point is 00:54:03 Of course. Yes, the attention. And homeschool is going to have one on four, one on four. One on four or one on one on one because you probably don't have the average person probably isn't homeschooling more than four kids at home. Are they really factoring in the parent that doesn't want to do it, but is, you know, homeschooling? This is all homeschool kids. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:20 So all of them. Here's the other thing, too, when you talk to, I had clients that were really big in this community. I've told this story before, but their kid was struggling in elementary school, like really struggling. And these were two really smart people. They were successful in tech. They were able to retire. So they say, hey, we're going to homeschool this kid. And at the time, I remember thinking like, that's not a good idea

Starting point is 00:54:39 because I had that kind of, you know, just that mentality around it. Well, anyway, this kid did really well as a result because you tailor it to your kid. Yeah. But anyway, I got into that community. Yeah. Do you know how long, you know what the average amount of education per day, let's say, per school day?

Starting point is 00:54:55 How much time a homeschool kid spend on it versus like a fraction? It's like an hour or two. I mean, I was home school for a year. And when I was, it was in eighth grade, seventh grade. seventh grade. Is that because he got in trouble? Or was it? Yeah, getting fights.

Starting point is 00:55:11 I remember I was getting bullied. It was when I'm, I tell the story when I went to Colorado. And I, basically, I, I, I, it was in a full year because I was already going to school the first quarter and then the rest of the year I was homeschooled. And so basically it just followed the school's curriculum. And my mom would just give me the stuff that I needed to work on for day. I was done in like two hours.

Starting point is 00:55:31 Yeah. I would do the school work in two hours. I had the whole rest of the day. No distraction. Yeah. It was just, it was, it's crazy. When you actually condense it down to what you need to do and just like hone in and focus on what's getting done, it's like, just goes to show you how it kills me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:46 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's killed me about school in general. Yeah. You're just bored. Dude, it's just wasted, like time and effort and it's so inefficient, you know, and that just, I don't know. Well, they always frustrated me.

Starting point is 00:56:00 The old argument against the two of those used to be the socialization. I know. That used to be the big. argument. Yeah, but that's if you just keep your kid inside alone and that's all you do. But they do activities outside of school. But I can sport. You put them in.

Starting point is 00:56:14 It would be interesting to see how many, because I do know, I mean, I have family that that homeschool kid. Yeah, yeah. And the kids are amazing. Some of the best kids that I've ever been around. So, but I also know they, they were very proactive about those things. So it would be interesting to see if you, if you took all the homeschool parents, how many of them do a good job of actually doing that?

Starting point is 00:56:35 because I could also see how easily you could isolate your kid. Of course. You know what I'm saying? Because it's just like your home, your home all day anyways. And it's like, you know, maybe the real effort is to get them involved in a lot of other,

Starting point is 00:56:45 like, extracurricular things. Have you guys seen the data? I don't know what the exact numbers are. Maybe you Doug can find these, but the percentage of kids who are homeschooled versus traditional education that then follow, that then have their parents' values as they get older.

Starting point is 00:57:00 In other words, if you homeschool your kids, what percentage of those kids will have your same similar values versus 80s? 80% probably. It's crazy. It's crazy. You put them in these, these systems, you know, especially public school. You're indoctrinated. Yeah. Because they're there all day. Then they, what happened to my kid? My kids like crazy. And it's because they adopted these other. I wonder to how much like, like it matters to how much the parent is involved on a daily basis with the kids school work too. Because I think that probably plays a huge role. Of course. Like that's one of the things I love about Max's school. Um, is that it, they force us to engage. I, I can, I, can't, a week can't go by that I can't be involved as a parent in the schoolwork. Yeah. And so that's part of the schoolwork is he has, they integrate the parents and in order for him to,

Starting point is 00:57:45 to be able to complete it. So it's, you have percentages on that, Doug? I don't see any percentage. If you could change, yeah. Why he's looking at that. So, yeah. 49% in one study.

Starting point is 00:57:56 Yeah. Oh, I thought it'd be hired enough. Well, we weren't talking about the efficiency of it and everything and like how, like, little time you spent. Remind me of this quote. It was like my new favorite quote is. the brevity is the soul of wit, which is from like Hamlet, I guess.

Starting point is 00:58:10 But it was just like, to me, of course, my personality, it's kind of like, you know, I'm just very succinct. Yeah. Like, what can I get done with the least amount of words?

Starting point is 00:58:20 Mm-hmm. But yeah, that's, like, I would love to have experienced education like that. Yeah. No, I,

Starting point is 00:58:26 we got such a cool, uh, compliment for it. So, right, we're coming up on, uh, parent teacher conference stuff.

Starting point is 00:58:33 Um, and Katrina and I are, traveling during the time. And so she stayed to talk to the teacher and learn oh, you know, what can we do this and that? We were leaving town for this and this and that. And the lady's like, oh, you don't need to come in. And Katrina's like, well, no, the parent conference thing is she's like,

Starting point is 00:58:51 yeah, no, your kid's fun. She's like, well, I'll Zoom call you. It's not for your kid. And Katrina's like, what do you mean? And she's just like, he's such a good kid. We really want parents to come in that we need to sit down and talk with. His parents are coming in.

Starting point is 00:59:06 Yeah, yeah. We need to talk to them. Yeah, yeah. So it was like a really, she's like, it was a really cool compliment to hear the, yeah, the teacher be like, no, no, no, he's, he's doing just fine. That's awesome. She's like, I'll, I'll zoom you, we'll take five minutes and just keep you updated on everything. Good kid. He's a great kid.

Starting point is 00:59:21 Dose has some pretty incredible products. They have a liver support product that's been shown in studies, real studies, to dramatically lower liver enzyme values. In other words, it's all natural, but it actually works. There's a lot of stuff out there that'll say it improves the health of your body or your liver, but they don't have anything backing it. Dose actually backed it with a study. If you want a healthier liver, better detoxification, you want better metabolism, you want to feel more energetic because you have a healthier liver.

Starting point is 00:59:53 Go to dosedaily.com. The discount code is mind pump. That'll give you 25% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Megan from Alberta. Hi, Megan. Hello. Hey, guys.

Starting point is 01:00:07 How's it going? Good. How can we help you? Good. Okay, so I'm just going to jump into a little bit of my back story here because it's kind of long. So my question is going to be regarding the negative effects of an imbalance in the body. So four years ago, I was diagnosed with severe TMJ. Over those last four years, I have had three jaw surgeries, the most.

Starting point is 01:00:34 recent being a full joint replacement and I still might need a fourth surgery. After my first surgery, my jaw pain started to get worse and within that year I started having a lot of anterior ankle pain. As my jaw progressively got even worse yet, so did my lower body pains. My feet and shins also started to become a chronic problem. It has become so bad now that most days I can only take my dog for maybe a 20-minute walk. And some days I can't even do that. I've tried everything possible so far. So I've done physiopath, chiropractor, massage, acupuncture.

Starting point is 01:01:19 I've done Botox in my jaw twice. I've done the juve red light for about a year. Supplements, air compression boots, ice, heat, rest, stretching mobility. and I got custom insoles from my podiatrist. So my podiatrist had recently sent me for an MRI on my ankles just before I had heard back from you guys. I did get the results back. I just haven't had a chance to meet with him yet to go through it all.

Starting point is 01:01:52 But I kind of have the gist of it if you guys, do you guys want that information? Yeah, please. Okay, I'm going to probably screw up these, some of these words but um so on both ankles they're showing an elongated appearance of the perionis brevis and slight difference of the anterior talofibular ligaments um left ankle has tiny dorsal osteophytes right ankle has some thickening in the atfl trace fluid in the tendon sheath and remote telonivular injury

Starting point is 01:02:29 abulgent. So the ATFL, it was complete without ruptures, but most likely from prior low-grade springs. I did play basketball a lot in school, but that was almost 20 years ago now. I gave these MRI results

Starting point is 01:02:51 to my new osteopath, and she showed me kind of where all the areas connect from the jaw to the feet and the ankles and such and the nervous system. So we discussed the possibility that my severe jaw pain and inflammation could have affected these other areas and past minor injuries. She also noted signs of dysfunction in my periosteum system and may possibly have myofascial pain syndrome.

Starting point is 01:03:23 Before I started this osteopath, everyone kind of always told me. me just to rest, relax, don't overdo it, which I've been doing. I haven't worked in like three years because of all of this and my pain has just progressively gotten worse and worse even within the last couple weeks. So I'm just not sure how I could do any less. So I'm just wondering what your guys' thoughts and opinions are on the idea that my jaw could be affecting my feet and ankles.

Starting point is 01:03:58 As the last time I did see my podiatrist, he laughed at me for even suggesting that that's a possibility. So I just don't understand why all of a sudden this is coming back. Or this is coming into my ankles and feet just like with a vengeance. Yeah, I'm really sorry you're going through that. One of the most challenging things is is to deal with chronic pain and then to not be able to find a solution or a root cause. It can be super frustrating.

Starting point is 01:04:32 And you said you've been dealing with this for years. So that's really, really tough. Theoretically, pain and dysfunction in any part of the body can affect any other part of the body. For sure. And we could have physiological, you know, movement explanations. But I think the easiest explanation is if you are. hurt a lot, you're going to move differently. Okay. So it doesn't matter where you hurt. If it's chronic and in pain,

Starting point is 01:05:01 you're going to move differently because you're constantly in pain. So that's possible. There's other few areas that I would look if I were you, though. Because it sounds like potentially there's also something systemic going on. So I would look for things that could cause changing. changes to how your body perceives pain systemically, things that may cause inflammation, for example, or things that may cause dysfunction in a systemic way. I would test for heavy metal toxicity, mold exposure. I would test for parasites, all three of which can cause pain to pop up different parts

Starting point is 01:05:50 of the body. and then what tends to be kind of signature with those things is you'll have pain in one area, then it pops up in another area, then it pops up in another area, and then before you know it, you're kind of hurting all over. Okay. So I would look at those things, and you could get tested for mold, heavy metal, and parasites, just to rule them out because I have worked with people where they dealt with something similar to this. And it was also accompanied by foggy, you know,

Starting point is 01:06:21 feeling foggy minded and and they did have mold toxicity and once they were able to or mold exposure, once they were able to solve that everything kind of went away. The other thing is this. We can't separate, it's impossible to separate

Starting point is 01:06:37 the physiological from a psychological. And so, and it could look like this. It could look like you have chronic pain from actual dysfunction, but then it causes so much distress, so much of an interference and interruption

Starting point is 01:06:58 to your life, that you start, and this is literally for lack of a better term, because whenever I say this, people's reaction or it's like, oh, what, you think it's all in my head? Well, pain is always all in your head, no matter what, even if I cut your arm off, the pain that you perceive is in your head. So it's not like you're making it up. but the trauma that can come from chronic pain, especially if it's a major interference or interruption into your life.

Starting point is 01:07:27 Like you can't work, your relationship suffer, and it's just there all the time. It can cause this scenario where you have pain all over your body. But I would first rule out any kind of, you know, measurable physiological, condition or issue. Now you're going to osteopaths,

Starting point is 01:07:52 and they're going to, you know, image you, they're going to look at the joints. What it sounds like with your ankles is what you would expect if someone has ankle pain. It doesn't sound like there's this big red flag, but it does, like I would expect to see something if you had pain. But I wouldn't, you know, if you were my friend,

Starting point is 01:08:12 I wouldn't rush to surgery until we ruled out some of this other stuff because if it's not, if the surgery doesn't solve it, what you end up, what ends up happening is a sequence of surgeries and then a potential loss of, you know, mobility and all that stuff. So have you had, have you tested for any of the things that I said? Have you seen someone functional medicine that can do that? I have, yeah. I did the Cabral, heavy metal, a test. It was a couple years ago now, but I just had like minimal like aluminum, which they said most people kind of tend to help. And I do see a natural path here.

Starting point is 01:09:00 And they tested me for mycotoxins. Okay. Which is a mold. And I do have, I do have high records of that. and we've been working on it for a good six to eight months or so now. Okay. I just, yeah, I'm just trying to explore kind of every avenue because I know that the micro toxin in the sheet that he gave me, it did show like inflammation in the lower

Starting point is 01:09:30 legs and stuff, which I thought made sense. So I was, that's kind of why I was going down that route. but then just it kind of gets overwhelming the more people I talk to kind of almost hinders it a little bit but so these osteopaths they're really great but like they're the first ones that kind of put that little seed in my head that it could be from like more so from my ankle or sorry from my jaw yeah just with the timing of it all was kind of like oh maybe you know I just thought it was strange that it went straight to my feet and not to like a upper body, but whatever.

Starting point is 01:10:10 It's possible. I mean, it's definitely possible. And I've seen, you know, like I said, somebody listening right now, if your, your face and your neck were in constant pain, you would move differently. Yeah. Was that the only place that you had, like, an injury that you can remember from back when, like your ankles? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:31 I've never really had, like, any sort of major, like, injury per se. I've only sprained my ankles and, like, my fingers. playing basketball. Maybe it missed, but I don't think it's been so long. But I did hyper extend my left knee almost 10 years ago now. And it is still that was kind of, I was going to try to work that into my question somehow, but it is still a fairly weak knee. Like I just can't seem to get that back.

Starting point is 01:11:09 But there was no, like, actual injury per se. I had all the scans and stuff. I just kind of already have double-jointed knees. So I just kind of went back a little too far. And then I had a horseback riding accident, but I didn't break anything. I didn't, like, fracture anything. I just was bruised, basically. So nothing, like, too major, but.

Starting point is 01:11:36 Megan, with the mold test and stuff, Have you had your home tested to see if you have any mold in the house? No, we had just bought a new, not new, but new to us home. So I haven't done that. How long ago? Not even a year ago yet. Okay. Just double check.

Starting point is 01:11:59 You might want to test just to make sure, because it does sound a little systemic with what's going on. And then don't. So here's the thing with pain. You have the, we can measure what's happening with pain. We can see the signals being sent and we can see, you know, inflammation. But the perception of the pain is such a big part of it. It's remarkable. I mean, it's remarkable.

Starting point is 01:12:27 You could talk to surgeons about when they do surgeries on children who don't know any better and versus adults, which are, you know, oh, man, I'm supposed to be in a lot of pain. And there's a very different kind of response. My wife experienced this very, it was very acute. She had this shoulder injury. She used to travel at the circus and she used to do the silks. And it kind of became a part of her identity. Before that, she never worked out. And suddenly she was like, oh my God, I could do something athletic and I'm fit and I love it. And then she heard her shoulder. And, you know, when I started dating her, this was already years after she had left. She had this kind of chronic shoulder pain. And we would constantly do correctional exercise.

Starting point is 01:13:08 And we had gotten to the point where her mobility and strength seemed okay, but the shoulder pain was still there. And we had this discussion around this kind of trauma connected to the shoulder pain. And we kind of worked on that. And it just went away. And she was like, I didn't even. And I'm like, well, you know, it changed your life. And I can't imagine how much of an impact what you've experienced has had.

Starting point is 01:13:33 on your life and that. So don't discredit that as well in terms of how that could potentially be influencing, you know, all of these things and even influencing the systemic effect with your immune system. But I would continue to look. Lyme disease would be another thing I would look for mold. I would look for these things that can cause an immune kind of reaction. And then with exercise, I would train in a way that was correctional.

Starting point is 01:14:03 movement's always good, sauna's always good, a good diet is always good. But definitely one thing can affect another. Just simply from the pain alone, I don't need to connect the dots and show how it's all connected. I think that's how doctors think. But it's like, you know, if I punched you in the face, you probably walk differently for a while until it healed, which theoretically could affect your ankles, knees, and everything else. Have you been able to get any relief with light movement? mobility with your ankles or is it just kind of aggravate it?

Starting point is 01:14:39 I feel like it just aggravates it. And again, that's the mental thing where I'm like nervous to do too much or like, you know, like even with mobility and stretching. Like sometimes a little inflame it and then I'm sitting on the couch like dying. Or sometimes I'm okay. But then it's the next day it hits me. And I'm just like nervous to. I haven't been to the gym in like a year,

Starting point is 01:15:06 but that's mostly because of my jaw because it just, you don't realize how much things can pull on it. And then, but like with the feet and ankles, like they literally just started getting to like the point I'm at now, which is I barely do anything

Starting point is 01:15:25 because they're so inflamed and they just like, it just kills me even just to clean my house kind of thing. So I have to break, that up into different days. And so, yeah, I haven't done a whole lot of, like, working out or anything. And I was hoping that maybe you guys could talk me into getting back.

Starting point is 01:15:47 I think your best approach with exercise is to do a little bit every day when you feel okay. Use bands, correctional exercise. If you don't have prime pro, I'll send that to you. Those are the movements that I would do. and you do you would just practice them a little bit here and there when you feel okay when you don't you just squeeze to get a pump that's it and just kind of move through different ranges of motion and in those with those particular movements but i would definitely look at things that can affect

Starting point is 01:16:19 uh you systemically lime mold uh i would look at um any anything with the gut then i would look at any potential autoimmune issue uh they could test for autoimmune issues uh to to see if there's anything else like that. But those are the areas I would look because it sounds like it's systemic. It doesn't sound like it's just one area with pain and then it's just staying there. Sounds like it's kind of...

Starting point is 01:16:44 I found a weak link that it could gravitate towards you. Right. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I don't... I will definitely try to do the Prime Pro. I appreciate you guys sending it. I don't really have many good days,

Starting point is 01:17:01 but I'll definitely do a little bit here and there and just see how it goes. Because like nothing, nothing. And that's one thing like I was with the red light. I had really high hopes and with it to just show something. But I'm wondering if it is so like systemic like you say, if that's just not get to it. You've been tested for lying?

Starting point is 01:17:30 Have you tried any peptides? or anything yet? I actually just started peptides four days ago. It's really hard to get them here. In Canada, they're kind of stingy about them. So I finally found a

Starting point is 01:17:47 hopefully reputable place to get them from. My girlfriend's been through these guys for about a year, so she hasn't died yet. So, yeah, I started BPC 157 as listening to you guys and then it has a mix of TB 500 in it. Okay.

Starting point is 01:18:12 So it's only been, yeah, today it'll be day five. Yeah. You want to give that about a month or two. And then like, and you tested for Lyme. I had asked that earlier. Uh, yeah. Many, many moons ago. Um, it did come back positive.

Starting point is 01:18:30 but it was yeah it was about 10 years ago or so and we've done so many things to work through it and nothing has ever budged with it so that's why my naturopath has me on the mycotoxin root because he thinks that that could be blocking any sort of treatment Okay. But, yeah, so I do have that as a natural past standpoint. If I test here in Canada through like an actual medical doctor, I show as a negative.

Starting point is 01:19:10 Yeah. That's hard to, yeah. You get some, the testing is sometimes not sensitive enough. Well, yeah, I wish I could give you a better answer. But my gut feeling is to look for something that's affecting you systemically. and not locally, you know, not like it's the joint, but rather why is my body so inflamed and why am I developing areas of inflammation

Starting point is 01:19:36 is where I would look. Okay, right. And like when you mentioned diet, I know that lots of the foods that I'm eating are like an inflammatory per se because like I'm so limited on what I can eat, right? like some days I can eat ground ground beef like in a spaghetti sauce day

Starting point is 01:19:59 or something and then some days I can barely I can barely have chewing chewing that like so lots of times I just try to you know choke it down but yeah so I am

Starting point is 01:20:13 eating a lot of carbs and pastas stuff like that soup I get the occasion shaken but I got so sick of shakes from surgery that I kind of fell off of them. But so it's probably not a bad thing to avoid common food intolerances. So gluten, dairy, legumes, nightshades.

Starting point is 01:20:38 And so you'd stay kind of like fruits, you know, vegetables, aside from nightshades, and stay away from nightshades and meats and see only because of the state that you're in, any common intolerance may make things worse but that can't hurt it can't hurt to go in that direction kind of like a paleo style diet okay yeah okay yeah i'll try that all right well Megan if you get any any more information I'd love to hear about yeah hopefully people watching this too they might you know know know somebody or you know maybe there's a medical professional watching this that has ideas too so hopefully it gets out and get you some answers Oh, thanks. I appreciate that.

Starting point is 01:21:24 You got it, Megan. All right. Thanks for calling. Awesome. Thank you so much. You got it. That's tough. I didn't want to put her in a position on the call.

Starting point is 01:21:35 What I've had client, this is rare when you get somebody like this that's had that's like checking all the boxes. And they just can't get to the bottom of what it is. I've had experience many, not many, a handful of times where some of this stuff is related to like childhood. trauma. Sure. And if you have just powered through your life and never really done a lot of work on that, it tends to start to express itself and all these weird things and injuries and symptoms and stuff and autoimmune issues and things that you can't quite get to the bottom of. And so I don't want to put her on the spot on the... You know what's tough about that, Adam?

Starting point is 01:22:18 That's by the way... That's a component. By the way, that's not Wu. There's there's data to support that you can activate your immune system by hating yourself. Your immune system starts to identify your body as a threat. And we know this. The data can actually show this. And there's a very strong connection between autoimmune disease and depression and anxiety. And not just that they cause depression anxiety,

Starting point is 01:22:41 but depression anxiety seem to cause higher rates of autoimmune issue. The problem is when you communicate that, the person feels like dismissed or like, what are you talking about? That's why I didn't want to say it. And this is what makes what we do a little difficult because we have this, you know, we have 10 minutes at best. We get to know these people in that short amount of time. And this would be something that as her and I are training, I would slowly pull on that thread to find out more about childhood, personal life, things are going.

Starting point is 01:23:08 So I'll tell a story. I'll tell a specific story. I had a guy that I trained who his wife came to me first. Then he started training with me. And his body was so sensitive to pain that. Like my first couple sessions, I was shocked. Like, he'd do a row, and I'd put my hands on him to kind of move his shoulders. And he'd go, ah, he'd like, flinch.

Starting point is 01:23:30 And I remember thinking, like, this is really odd. Weird reaction. And after, like, two or three sessions, it was like, and so we'd ask the questions, no illness, no this, no that. But, like, everything hurt, and we had to be very careful. So all I did, and I, this is back in the day when I, you know, I didn't have a lot of awareness around this. I had, remember, I had that really great physical therapist that

Starting point is 01:23:51 worked in there. So I would do correctional exercise and stuff with him. But over time, what happened was we became friends. He became friends with the other people in the studio. And this is now looking back. He didn't have a lot of friendships. He was very lonely. It was just like him and his wife. And that's it. He did nothing else but work. And he started kind of coming out of his shell and his personality changed. He got happier. And through that process became way less sensitive. Now, he never got to the point where he'd get after it. But the difference was dramatic. And I remember I would talk. with my coworkers about this because I worked with this guy for a few years and they're like you know I wonder if it was just uh he just had no he was lonely he didn't have any friendships he had a really tough childhood we never went to detail but he would express that like I wonder if it was just kind of him opening up it was so protective of his body and protected yeah and in the pain significant difference in how we reacted um and that stuck with me that was one of my first experiences with like you know what we're talking about yeah and I think too like you brought up

Starting point is 01:24:51 even belly breathing with, I've had the same experience with a client who was really holding on, like really holding on. Yeah. And the release of it was like a crazy emotional experience. Yeah, I've had that. So, you know, in terms of like, I don't know, maybe getting in there and like being able to meditate and, you know, dive in further, you know, that's worth investigating. I've had, you know, like I said, a handful of people that like were I just couldn't get to the bottom of it,

Starting point is 01:25:20 right? I couldn't find the professional. I couldn't figure out the thing. And then something miraculously happened where they had a breakthrough with therapy or they got married and all of a sudden found love. Yeah. And then all of a sudden the pain is gone. And it's like, I didn't do anything different in their workouts or their diet. It was just there was something.

Starting point is 01:25:38 Circumstantial. There was something going on inside internally that they were either suppressing or holding on to. And many times this is connected to childhood trauma stuff, things like that. And, you know, again, I didn't want to. I don't want her to feel dismissed by that. By the way, the trauma could even simply be this. Maybe there isn't anything in childhood or they could be, but it could also be this. I have severe jaw pain.

Starting point is 01:26:01 It gets really bad. I have to get surgery. I can't work. It's hard for me to talk. It's hard for me to eat. I have to get another surgery. Now I'm not working for two years. I have to get another, like that.

Starting point is 01:26:12 This is spiral. Anybody goes through that. That is traumatic. That is severely traumatic. It changes everything. Right. Our next caller is Nicole from Arizona. Hi, Nicole.

Starting point is 01:26:21 Hi, Nicole. Hi, guys. Thank you so so much. I seriously appreciate you giving me some time. Yeah, you got it. How come we help you? Okay, I'll just read the email. So, hello, my name is Nicole.

Starting point is 01:26:36 I'm 25 years old and grew up playing soccer and overall being very active. Since going to college and not playing soccer, I learned how to go to the gym and got into running mainly. I have always been very into fitness and healthy nutrition, but starting a few years ago, I took it too far and developed anorexia. Since getting back some weight, I've gotten to a point of the fittest I've ever been, yet almost the least fit because I over-trained and can't seem to find how much I need to fuel my body. I run five times a week and have gotten a dexas skin and I have 15% body fat and I'm trying to get stronger. I usually get about 30,000 steps every day, which I know is too much, but I just feel like I have to move. And if I don't, then I have to eat way less. I get answers from most of the total daily energy expenditure results that I should be able to just maintain at 2,200 calories.

Starting point is 01:27:35 But sometimes I feel like I could just eat like 4,000 calories every day. And I'm hungry, but here I shouldn't eat too much and especially not. carbs. So anyways, I think I'm doing too much, but would like to know how to make changes to work smarter, not harder, harder, and do the transition to doing less without losing progress with my endurance and low body fat. Thank you guys so so much again. I really love the podcast. Yeah. Thanks for calling in, hon. You're, this is such, it's so great to see someone your age, ask a question like this. And there's some good self-awareness here, which gives me a lot of hope for what we want to do with you. Okay. I got to ask you, do you have a regular period or has that

Starting point is 01:28:19 been disrupted through the process that you went through through anorexia and the exercise and stuff? Is that all normal? That is actually still disrupted. I probably haven't. I mean, I didn't have it for probably two years. And then after I kind of recovered for a little bit, I got it back a little bit. But then it's then another two years probably since I've had it. Okay. So I'll give you the plane like what's happening. But then let's talk about how we could get there. Okay. You're definitely overtrained.

Starting point is 01:28:49 You're definitely under-eating still, for sure. Cool. Now we know. The hard part is how do we get to a place where this doesn't feel so stressful? There's a couple of things you said besides your past, which is obviously giving me a clear picture. But you said, I have to do 30,000 steps. Or I feel like I have to eat less. Who's forcing you?

Starting point is 01:29:12 What do you mean? I don't even know. I swear for some reason, I've always been a rule follower, but I just like set these things or, you know, the health world says to do, you know, X or Y, you know, and I take it to the extreme. And it's like, if I don't do, you know, my exercise, even if I'm exhausted, then like the world is over or whatever it may be. I get it. Answer the question, who is forcing you to do these things? I mean, it's myself, you know, nobody else. That's it.

Starting point is 01:29:52 And what it probably feels like to you when you're creating this structure in these rules is that it feels like I got my hands around it and I'm controlling things, which can feel calming when things feel out of control. Or it feels like if I don't have my hands on these things, oh my God, what's going to happen? So there's a couple ways we could go about this. Because I could give you the answers right now, but I don't think it's going to help you.

Starting point is 01:30:21 I think you either, A, need a coach to work with you through this process because it's going to be a bit tough. And that's not feasible for you, Nicole. If that's something that's not available just financially for you, I think what I would do with someone like you, somebody who needs a target, is I would point you in a direction that's going to move you the furthest away from this challenge. It's not the perfect target, but it's going to move you away from it.

Starting point is 01:30:48 And there's a competitive element, which sounds like you like. Sounds like you kind of like something to aim for and something that's competitive. And what I would do, so here's your two options. Option one, the best, is work with a coach. We have coaches here at Mind Pump that we handpick, so I trust them. Option two is to pursue powerlifting. Mm-hmm. Powerlifting is going to be your best bet as far as a competition and target.

Starting point is 01:31:14 Because it's going to, if you're really seeking to get stronger and compete, it's going to move you away from all this other stuff that's a bit damaging. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Keep going. No, no, go ahead.

Starting point is 01:31:27 Go ahead. I was just because I, like, I've started to try to, like, strength train, you know, in the gym. But it is like, I feel like I just get. like lost or if I were to like imagine just doing strength training which it's not even just like strength training obviously is very difficult but I'm like oh if I don't run and have this huge sweat then like yeah I you know didn't get a good workout in and now I have to eat way less because I didn't burn as many calories or whatever it's so not true though just so you know and and that feeling that you have where you feel like you could eat 4,000 calories that's your

Starting point is 01:32:05 body's natural signals saying, I need those calories. That's not a bad thing. That's like you go out and you do 30,000 steps in a day, which is crazy, a crazy amount of steps. That's a ridiculous amount. That type of, that a person doing 30,000 steps a day and running should be eating 4,000 plus calories a day. And if you're not anywhere near that, the reason why you feel like you're starving is because your body is. And which is also why the period is shut down is that our body. Our body fat percentage is too low. We're pushing way too hard. We're way on the other extreme.

Starting point is 01:32:40 And this is why Sal is saying the coach is so important is because this isn't like one or two little just tweaks. This is a process because we have to get on the whole other side. In fact, what it looks like is increasing calories, cutting those steps down to under 10,000 steps and just lifting weights. Like that is so the opposite of where you're at. And the coach is going to guide you through that. And it's real easy for us to sit on our, you know, podcast chairs and tell you that. It's another thing to implement that and do that. And the voices in your head that are telling you all these things.

Starting point is 01:33:14 And then heaven forbid, you see the scale go up a few pounds and then freak out and think you're going wrong way. When actually you're building muscle and going the right way. That's where the coach comes in is the coach is the one who kind of talks you off that ledge every day and goes, Nicole, you're doing great. This is perfect. This is right where I want you. Like, oh, we're doing. Like, that's the real value. it's less of the X's and O's.

Starting point is 01:33:34 And it's just that where you're at and where we need to go is a pretty far, pretty far trek. And getting there is not hard from a physical standpoint. It's hard from a psychological standpoint. Let me just, let me just communicate something to you that you may be aware of, but you might not be aware of. This control that you're putting around all these things, it's actually the reverse. It is controlling you. So you are actually out of control. You are being tyrannized by exercise, diet, stress, body image.

Starting point is 01:34:10 All these things are controlling you. You're not controlling. As much as you're trying to control it, it's actually controlling you, which probably gives you the sense that you need to control it even more. And so this is kind of like spiral. It's a spiral down. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:34:23 So the answer is to do the scary thing, which is to give the control up completely. but the easiest way to do that is to give it to someone else. Now, I'm going to paint a couple pictures for you. Here's one, one path is if you keep going down, you're 25, you're young,

Starting point is 01:34:45 but you're already, your period is irregular. You're feeling like, oh my God, this doesn't feel good. What are the bone density say on your dexas scan? Did you see it? Yeah,

Starting point is 01:34:53 was your bone density okay? My bone density is actually okay. My dad also got a Dexon. They told him he was built like a tank. So I think I just have good genetics when it comes to bones. Good, good. So what'll happen if you keep moving down this path is it's going to get more stressful, more difficult, more challenging, more negative symptoms, and it's going to feel terrible. So right now, youth is helping protect you a little bit.

Starting point is 01:35:17 But if you keep doing down this path, it'll be really, really nasty. Now, the other path that we could do right now is you relinquished control to someone you trust. How long have you been listening to our show, by the way? It's been a couple years now. Okay. So you like us. You trust us a little bit. You think we know what we're talking.

Starting point is 01:35:36 Okay. So I, we have handpicked coaches because there's great coaches out there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad ones. The ones that we have are really good. So when you hear us communicate our philosophy around health and fitness and the methods, that's what our coaches do.

Starting point is 01:35:54 And they're going to walk you through this entire process. And what's good, what you're going to do is instead of giving up control completely, which is really scary, you're going to give it to someone else. And you're going to say, okay, I'm just going to follow what you're saying, even though it's scary, even though it's uncomfortable, I'm just going to follow what you're saying. And then you're going to give them that control. And then the process that that looks like is, it's like training wheels is eventually you start to trust the process and you don't need to give that control to someone else. Then you're not with a coach.

Starting point is 01:36:29 and it's totally different. It's a totally different relationship. You don't feel trapped. You don't feel controlled. You feel vibrant. And now this health and fitness is now a vehicle for freedom and not a vehicle for tyranny, which is what you're experiencing. Nicole, you brought up your dad did the Dexter scan.

Starting point is 01:36:45 He did it with you. Do you live at home still? Is he aware of where you're at? Yeah, I live at home. I finished college and then I've been at home right now, just kind of working a little bit. Okay. And does he know everything, like as far as the anorexia and what you've gone through?

Starting point is 01:37:03 Yeah. My mom, I've never really, like, worked with too many other people. My mom was kind of my main little superstar helping me through everything. Oh, that's wonderful. Okay. Do you think a coach is, is that something that's feasible for you? Would that be something you'd be interested in? I do think so because I just, that's my biggest thing is my family is not super,

Starting point is 01:37:27 fit and healthy. And, you know, I kind of grew up in a household where it's like, oh, you know, we could sit on the couch all day, eat whatever, it doesn't matter. You know what? It's totally fine for some people. My family is the best. But I just, so I feel like I've always lacked trust in the people around me. I'm like, I have to do the opposite of what they're doing, you know?

Starting point is 01:37:52 And so, like, it's just hard for me with, like, anybody to be like, okay, how can I trust that they know exactly what my body needs, even though I'm not even really listening to my body by pushing it to the limit. But it's like, it's just that trust kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Well, if you trust us, if you trust us and we handpick these people, I'll have somebody call you today. And this is your best bet. And because of your awareness and your age, I have really high hope. I think you're going to do just great. I think you're going to do just great. Okay.

Starting point is 01:38:30 Yeah. Okay. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. You got it. We'll see you on later calls, Nicole. Okay. See you.

Starting point is 01:38:38 Bye, guys. Thank you. Oh, sweet girl. Yeah. That's tough. I mean, you know, so again, this is, when I talk to people, when they have that kind of awareness, the odds are high. It's still hard.

Starting point is 01:38:51 She's going to have to do some hard work. Right. But the odds are high, especially at her age, 25 years. Like, hey, man, I got these issues. and I need some help. Oh yeah, most people are in denial right now. Most people are still in denial about it. And they just keep going until their body shuts the heck down.

Starting point is 01:39:05 Yeah, and then they get all kinds of really bad. Well, I mean, she's already having hormonal stuff, right? Obviously, her period's been shut down like that. Oh, yeah. But early enough, young enough. And it's great that she's got her bone density was okay too because that's the next thing that you start to see to deteriorate. That's right. And so, you know, catch it now and we'll be okay.

Starting point is 01:39:21 You know, it's the hardest part to me is that the answer is actually really easy. Yeah, like doing it. Yeah, it's like, it's like, because you're, you're actually telling somebody who's doing way too much to do less, back off, eat some more, you know what I'm saying? Like, and that seems you, the average person listening is just like, it's because you can't, you can't get in their own way. You can't know it just in your head. She knows it in her head.

Starting point is 01:39:45 Yeah. She doesn't feel it. Yeah. What she feels is the opposite. And that drives that what your actions are. You can try going from your head all day long and what it would look like for Nicole is she would be like, okay, cool, I'm going to do the steps. And then she'd feel so strongly against it that she would just stop.

Starting point is 01:40:00 But the coach is there to give that to them and you follow them. And there's going to be some stumble. She's for sure going to not do what the coach says for a little bit and go back and maybe struggle and argue. But eventually it'll get to the way where she knows it, where she actually knows it on the inside, not just in her head. Yeah. Our next caller is Alyssa from California. Hi, Alyssa. Hello.

Starting point is 01:40:21 Hey. Oh my gosh. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys in person. This is so weird. I listen to you every single day. My kids even know who you are. When I told them I was coming on, they were like, oh, my gosh, it's the Mike Pub guys. Thank you so much for culinary.

Starting point is 01:40:35 How long you've been in Oakdale for? I've been here for about three years. I'm originally from Oklahoma, but I moved out of the Bay Area like 22 years ago. So I was like in Pleasanton, Dublin. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Bay Area. We're in the Bay Area. We're in the Bay Area. We're in San Jose.

Starting point is 01:40:54 And I grew up in Oakdale. Oh, did you? Yes, yes. Oh, that's awesome. Where are you at? What part of town are you at? I'm kind of over on the east side. And I don't know if you know where the save mart is in the old Kmart.

Starting point is 01:41:08 Yeah. I'm kind of over in that area. Yeah, my sister lived back over there for a while, right over where the junior high is back over there, right? Yes, yeah. The junior high is actually in my backyard. Yeah, okay. I can hear the band practicing every morning. So that's funny.

Starting point is 01:41:21 Well, how can we help you? Well, I just, thank you so much, first of all, because you guys have literally, like, changed the game from me. Like, in the sea of, like, strength training and nutrition, health information, like, you guys keep it real. And I trust you more than pretty much anybody on the internet because it's just, it gets so confusing and overwhelming. But I'll just start off. My story is kind of complicated and long, so I'll just kind of shorten it for you. I'm 40, almost 46. I have dealt with anorexia nervosa pretty much my whole life, like since I was 10.

Starting point is 01:41:57 So it's been a battle I've, you know, carried forever. But I've been in treatment multiple times in and out. Never really helped me. They put me in, you know, feed me 4,000 calories plus, gain a much weight, come home, feel gross, lose it again, over and over. What really helped me the most, I think, was when I was 13, my dad introduced me to strength training he was always into bodybuilding weightlifting all of that he took me to the gym and changed the game for me i instantly fell in love like it was back in the 90s so girls weren't really like in the gym doing like you know bodybuilding moves and i was in there like

Starting point is 01:42:40 you know back squatting and you know awesome all all that stuff and i just it changed how i my relationship with food and my body because for the first time, food wasn't scary. It was something I needed to get strong and build my body up. And I wanted to get stronger. And it was amazing. Fast forward, I became personal trainer in college, loved it. It just was something that, you know, it kind of cured me from that interaxia for a while. Got married, had a kid.

Starting point is 01:43:16 I had twins, had another kid, and it just kind of, I have, I'm a mom of four kids. So, you know, going to the gym is not that easy when you're a mom with four little kids. So I stopped going to the gym, kind of in a bad marriage, just fell in back into old ways of the inneraxia, and just kind of battled up and down for a year. So fast forward, here I am now. And single mom, got four kids, they're all teenagers. And I just, I'm kind of on my way back to recovering again. I'm not at a healthy weight.

Starting point is 01:43:56 I know I need to gain weight, but I've lost a lot of muscle in all my years of restricting. And I'm sarcopenic, like extreme. Like I have zero muscle mass right now. And I want to get back into strength training because I know how important muscle is, especially getting older. I don't want to be in my old age, fall break of hip, ended up in the hospital.

Starting point is 01:44:21 And, you know, I mean, I listen to like Gabrielle Lion. I listen to you guys, you know, and like the muscle is important. And for me,

Starting point is 01:44:29 it's never, like, I don't have body dysmorphia. Like, I don't, like, I know I'm way too skinny. And I,

Starting point is 01:44:36 I just, I want to feel strong again. Like, my kids have never seen me strong. And I miss that feeling. Like, I can't even go to, Costco by myself and get stuff because I can't lift anything.

Starting point is 01:44:48 You know, I have to get my teenagers to lift Amazon boxes off the porch. And I want to be strong again. But I don't know where to start because I haven't lifted, like I said, since my 18-year-old, you know, before she was born. So, and I just feel so weak. Like, I can barely do anything. Like, I really have no muscle mass. Like, so I just, I wanted to get you guys input.

Starting point is 01:45:14 but on where to start. Like, I feel so intimidated. I have gym access. I have a gym right down the street, but I'm intimidated to go. You know, like, with my personal training history and everything, I kind of know what to do. I just, where I'm at now physically,

Starting point is 01:45:30 I don't know, I don't know where to go. I'm lost. So that's why I wanted to, you know, I trust you guys and I just kind of wanted to see where you would, you know, where you would put me. Yeah, God bless you. I think we can help you with this. Did the, if we can, if it's okay, I'd like to ask you a few more questions. Of course. Yeah. Did it did the, did this start with body image issues or was it a control thing when you started the relationship with, with anorexia? You know, I think it was, I think it was kind of a little bit of both. It was started with body image and then it turned into a control thing.

Starting point is 01:46:11 I never had any like, you know, I was a typical kid. I was like, I didn't think anything. I didn't think about my body, you know. I just kind of ate and did, you know, did my thing. And had a friend like poke my belly when I was, I still remember it. Like, she poked my belly. Oh, you've got a pop belly. And it was the first time I was like, oh, should I be thinking about my body?

Starting point is 01:46:33 And then that kind of cascaded into, you know, a diet and restricting. and then it just went from there. And then from there, it kind of became a control thing. Like, in times of stress, that's kind of when the anorexia rears its head. It's like, this is my way to kind of control something in my life because everything else is out of control. And so, you know, so yeah. It's that it's that comforting friend. It is, yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:03 A dysfunctional friend. Exactly. It's no different than somebody going to alcohol for that, you know, that kind of relief or great awareness around all that time. Yeah, and it sounds like you're ready to care for yourself. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. That's exciting. So here I'll give you some advice. So I totally hear you with the intimidation with the gym. And so I think a step by step approach is the best. I think was a good routine that you could do at home to start with would be great to build some strength and confidence before going back to the gym. Do you have anything at home like dumbbells,

Starting point is 01:47:38 suspension trainer, resistance bands, anything like that? Yeah, I've got a set of 15 pound dumbbells, and I've got a 45-pound kettlebell. Great. Okay. Okay. I think MAPS starter would be a good program to start with. Okay. Okay.

Starting point is 01:47:54 I also think MAP suspension would be another good program. And what I'm going to do, we don't normally do this, Alyssa. You don't have a suspension trainer? I don't know. Okay. We're going to send you a suspension trainer, and I'm also going to send you MAP suspension. Yes. Thank you so much.

Starting point is 01:48:08 much. Oh, my gosh. So you'll have two options. You'll have map starter and map suspension. And they're both great at home programs. I think doing a little bit daily is a good idea in combination with some of the changes in diet. Have you made any dietary changes? Not really. I'm kind of, I'm kind of stuck right now. I'm like a very low calorie. I'm about 1,500 calories, but I'm slowly gaining on that. I think I've suppressed my metabolism so much. And because I don't have any muscle, like, I just, you know, I barely have any, I just feel like I can't eat without, you know, really gaining weight.

Starting point is 01:48:56 And I know I need to eat to build, to build any muscle. So, so you know all the stuff up here. Yeah. But we got to get you to feel, feel it. Because if you do the right things, but you don't feel right about it, it's going to be difficult to stick to. So, and how do we get to, how do we get there? You're going to have to not weigh yourself. So I'm going to need you to get rid of your scale. I mean, that, I mean, literally get rid of it, not have a scale in your house. So throw it away and not study yourself

Starting point is 01:49:26 in the mirror. In fact, ignore your reflection in the mirror because it's going to mess with you. And you're going to have to consciously think about how you feel and think about your strength. What I mean by how you feel is not like I feel gross, but try to pick out the strength, the energy, and the mobility. And you're going to have to consciously think about those things because your nature is to not. Your nature is going to be to think about how I look, the scale, and am I feeling fatter? Do I feel bloated? My stomach is full. Okay.

Starting point is 01:50:00 So this is going to be, you have to retrain your focus. What you focus on is what you see. And there's lots and lots of data to support this. So several times a day, I want you, you're going to have to think about strength, think about energy, think about how much weight I'm moving, mobility, and just focus on that. And when you find yourself thinking about the other stuff, instead of not thinking about that, good luck. It's like, don't think about a zebra.

Starting point is 01:50:26 Now you're thinking about zebra is you're going to have to think about strength, think about mobility, think about energy. And then that slowly should get you to this point where you start to feel confident and go back to the gym. Diet-wise, you're going to have to completely ignore your systems, your feeling of satiety and fullness. So because your relationship to that right now, if I tell you to listen to your body from that standpoint,

Starting point is 01:50:50 you're going to keep eating little. So you're going to kind of have to eat in an uncomfortable way. So you're going to have to kind of seek that out a little bit. Like I'm going to eat until I'm really full. And then I'm going to eat until I'm really full. Now, working with a coach would be very beneficial for someone like you. you to kind of help you through this process. You can kind of outsource some of that trust.

Starting point is 01:51:12 I don't know how feasible that is for you. I know you're about an hour and a half away from us. I'd like to invite you in to our studio just to meet with us. You can listen to a live episode. I can introduce you some of our trainers. And even if you were to visit us every other month and meet a trainer here, I think that would be beneficial. Or you could do something more consistent where you work with one of our coaches,

Starting point is 01:51:36 virtually and they can kind of help through this process. I think that would really, really be helpful. Yeah, that would be awesome. But I'm going to send you those two programs. I'm going to mail you a suspension trainer. And then if you'd like, I can have one of our coaches call you and then see if any of that works for you to be able to kind of walk you through this process. That would be so great.

Starting point is 01:51:58 Thank you so much because I just feel, I just feel kind of lost right now, you know. But that would be a game changer. So I just, oh my gosh, thank you so much. You're actually in a great place mentally. You're in the right place. Self-awareness is incredible. You know where you need to go. Sounds like you're willing to outsource that to somebody else guide you to that process.

Starting point is 01:52:20 We'll take care of you. We'll take care of you. Thank you so much. You're going to do great. I do. I just want to feel healthy. You know, like it's not about like body image anymore. It's about like just being strong and healthy for my future and for my kids and to be a good example.

Starting point is 01:52:36 You know, I've got two daughters, and, you know, I want to show them what it's like to be a strong woman. And, you know, I don't want to be this weak little thing anymore, you know? That's badass. That's badass, and that's an awesome one of your daughters on here. Listen, if I had one of your daughters on here and I asked them, how much do you live your mom? What would they say? Oh, man. I think they love me a lot.

Starting point is 01:52:56 Yeah. I want you to look through their eyes at yourself and try to care for yourself like they would. And it's going to be counter to what you used to. but I think that'll help direct you in the meantime. That's why I love you. How do my daughters think of me? I love that being your goal.

Starting point is 01:53:12 I love that it's not, it's a selfless. It's you, I want to show my daughters. That is what's going to motivate. That's what's going to put you to the uncomfortable times of when a trainer tells you,

Starting point is 01:53:21 I need you to eat 2,000 calories and you're like, oh my God, that feels so much, or I'm stuff, I don't like it. And like, if you just keep remembering why you're doing this, you're going to be fine. That's right.

Starting point is 01:53:30 You're going to get through this. This would be good. Absolutely. I've got my 18-year-old daughter she's not going to, she's taking a gap year and she's here with me all the time. And she asked me that, she's like, mom, we should start going to the gym. Yeah. And I was like, we should.

Starting point is 01:53:45 She's, she's really interested in it. So I think that would be motivation too, you know. Hell yeah. Make me get strong with her. Include them in this process. That support is going to help so much. I'm going to have someone reach out to you. In the meantime, we're going to mail you the suspension trainer.

Starting point is 01:54:00 You'll get the two programs. And then I hope to see you. I know we're not too far from you, so I hope we get a chance to meet you and you can come in. Oh, I would love to come up and visit. I would love that. Awesome. Awesome. We'll set it up, Lisa.

Starting point is 01:54:11 Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. You guys are just the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for everything you do. Take care. All right.

Starting point is 01:54:20 Well, I'm glad. That's good motivation. Great attitude. Yeah, yeah. Great attitude. Perfect place. Great place. Wow, man, we got two today like that.

Starting point is 01:54:28 Transful. Yep. You know, again, it seems so like the simple answer. jumped to 2,000 to 2,300 calories, lift weights three times a day, or three times a week, and like solves everything, but it's like that is, to get there.

Starting point is 01:54:41 Any severe challenge. By the way, for people listening right now who are like, oh, it's just do this. You know you got your stuff. Everybody does. That thing you can't stop, and the answer is stop doing it,

Starting point is 01:54:52 and you can't. Yeah. That's what they're dealing with. And it's very difficult, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's just a process. Yep.

Starting point is 01:54:59 Our next caller is Sarah from Colorado. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for having me on. How can we help you? I'm just going to read my question because I'm really nervous.

Starting point is 01:55:12 Okay. My heart's racing. So thanks so much for taking my question. I've been listening over the past year and pretty much binging the podcast on my daily walks. I've learned a ton from you. For a little context, I'm 41, a full-time working mom of two boys and a PE teacher. So I'm active throughout the day. Between my job and walking, I average around.

Starting point is 01:55:33 15,000 steps per day. Fitness has always been a part of my life. I was a professional ballet dancer for a time, later a collegiate cyclist with a very endurance heavy background, and I also spent years doing CrossFit. At this stage of life, I found that doing three full body workouts per week and walking gives me the best return on investment. I feel strong, consistent, and not burnt out, which is important to me right now. My question is about V-O-2 max and longevity. I keep hearing it described as one of the strongest predictors of long-term health, which makes me wonder if I should be doing more intentional cardio or an interval work. At the same time, I'm pretty much burnt out on structured endurance training

Starting point is 01:56:18 and honestly don't enjoy hit unless it's totally necessary. From your perspective, for someone who is already strength training consistently and highly active day-to-day, is there a meaningful added benefit to deliberately training V-O-2 max for longevity? or is it often over-emphasized compared to just keeping strong, maintaining muscle, and staying active with lots of walking in daily movements as we get older? I love how you put that last sentence. Totally. That's exactly how I feel. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:56:47 So there's generally, yeah, there's benefits to improving V-O-2 Max through some hit training for longevity. Specifically for you, no. You hate it. And I know your background. Professional ballet dancer, cyclists, CrossFit. you probably had a relationship and maybe you even struggle with us a little now with fitness where it was like beating yourself up

Starting point is 01:57:11 and you're probably over it. You're probably over it. You're like, I don't want to do that to myself anymore. And I think training hit is going to probably move you in an unhealthy place. You're in a beautiful place. You're crushing. Yeah, you're in a beautiful place. You're right where I, someone with your past and what you've done, you're right, you're right where I want you. It's not going to improve your longevity for you. I think it would make things worse. And by the way, if you ever, like we, let's say we were training together for a year, and you're like, you know, I'm just curious.

Starting point is 01:57:35 You can spend two weeks and improve V-O-2 max dramatically. Like literally, you can, like, cardiovascular endurance comes back like this. Not to mention building muscle automatically increases V-O-2 max. People don't know that. Yeah. It automatically does because of the oxygen consumption of muscle mass. By the way, you like strength training? You want to get a little, you want to get a little V-O-2 max?

Starting point is 01:58:00 Do a few weeks where you're resting 30 seconds between sets of squats. Yeah. Do 15 reps of squats, rest 30 seconds, go do another 15 reps. Boom, you're set. Yeah. If you really want to. But here's the important thing for someone like you, Sarah, with your background.

Starting point is 01:58:15 Make sure it's something you enjoy. Yeah. Because your past, because I've trained ballet, people don't appreciate professional ballet, incredibly challenging and also very body focused. It's one of the more difficult spaces to come out of for women. some of the most difficult clients I ever worked with. I love where you're at. Yeah, so I'm like, enjoy it.

Starting point is 01:58:36 Yeah. So just go and enjoy it. You're walking and moving as much as you're walking and moving. You're killing it. Three days of full body training. I mean, we are in the sweet spot right now. Now, here's the real question. How is your relationship with diet?

Starting point is 01:58:48 Because I know that's the big struggle with people with that background. I feel like I've dodged that bullet somehow. Yeah. I love to, I mean, I considered going to culinary school. I love food. food. I feel very, very fortunate, especially, I mean, even cycling, people can get weird with that stuff. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:15 No, I, I feel like I eat pretty well. Good. You're fine. Yeah. You're not just fine. You're killing it. Yeah. Don't ever think it.

Starting point is 01:59:23 Yeah. You know, what can happen a lot of times to people is they go on fitness social media. Yeah. And then they start hearing all these, like, little studies and this and that. and then they start questioning things. But the way you ask your question, it sounds like you kind of know the answer. You want a little confirmation.

Starting point is 01:59:39 You're perfect. Yeah. No, 15,000 steps, three full body workouts, eat balanced meals, protein. That's longevity right there. Yeah, yeah. Great. That's where I want you.

Starting point is 01:59:49 I don't want you moving out of that. I love that. Perfect. Yeah. Killing it. You're killing it. Thank you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:55 Yeah. Good job. See the course. Thanks so much. Thanks, Sarah. Yeah, that's a beautiful. was possible. Yeah. And you know what? Again, so here's why, this is why it's so important, like being a coach and a trainer, you work with different people. If this was a general question,

Starting point is 02:00:13 would a person get some longevity benefits to adding something to improve V-O-2 Max so long as it's programmed properly, blah, blah, blah, yeah. Generally, you'd be like, yeah. Yes. For her, no, not with your background, not with the fact that you already said, you hate it and you don't want to get burnt out. It's going to make you more unhealthy. It's, it's going to contribute to worse longevity, not better longevity. This is where the nuance is really important. And you also, I mean, you want to increase that. Go do 15, 15 rest periods.

Starting point is 02:00:44 You got it. And you will, you will absolutely get there. Or you decide one month, you're going to do it for two weeks. Two weeks, get after it, and then get right back to your, and watch. I mean, this, we, this is what I don't like about studies like that. And the way she phrased the last sentence, I don't remember exactly how she said it, but she said it like beautifully, like in the context. of where she's at, you know, is it often over-emphasized compared to just keeping strong,

Starting point is 02:01:09 maintaining muscle, and staying active with lots of walking, daily movement as we get older. Yeah. Yeah. It's like that. You stay strong. Totally. You stay mobile move and do that. That is a way better win for sure all day.

Starting point is 02:01:20 100%. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted

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