Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2816 : Fat Burner Supplements Are a Scam (Here's Why)

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

In this episode of the Mind Pump Podcast, Sal, Adam, and Justin coach live callers on fitness, training, and nutrition strategies. They open the show discussing why fat burner supplements are mostly a waste of money, the science behind probiotics and gut health, and surprising research around PDE5 inhibitors (like Viagra) and cardiovascular health. They also debate supplements, discuss parenting and teaching kids financial habits, and explore emerging tech like Tesla tunnels in Las Vegas. Later, they coach listeners on training goals after 40, fat loss struggles, bulking vs cutting, and overcoming workout plateaus.   The Spring Bundle: Symmetry ($187), Prime ($107), Advanced Training Techniques Guide ($47) all for $147 (over 50% off) mapsmarch.com    This episode is brought to you by SEED ⇨⇨go to ⁠seed.com/mindpump⁠ Code "20MINDPUMP" for 20% off your first month of Seed's Daily Synbiotic   This episode is also brought to you by Pre Alchohol by ZBIOTICS ⇨⇨go to ⁠zbiotics.com/MINDPUMP26⁠ Code '"MINDPUMP26" for 15% for first time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack)   Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise. Hiya is made with zero sugar and zero gummy junk. Hiya fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diets to provide the full-body nourishment our kids need. It's non-GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free and everything else you can imagine. Hiya is designed for kids of all ages and sent straight to your door so parents have one less thing to worry about. ⁠hiyahealth.com/MINDPUMP⁠ Receive 50% off your first order   (00:00) Intro (02:23) Why Fat Burner Supplements Are a Waste of Money (09:27) The Real Supplements That Actually Help (15:43) Gut Health, Probiotics & Fat Loss (22:09) Viagra-Type Drugs & Health Benefits (26:53) Tesla Tunnels & Random Life Talk (55:42) Coaching Zach: Training Goals After 40 (01:05:13) Coaching John: Weight Loss, TRT & Consistency (01:17:03) Coaching Rebecca: Bulking vs Cutting (01:27:01) Coaching Angela: Perimenopause Training Plateau

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Here's an incredible waste of time and money. It's the category of supplements known as fat burners. If you're spending your money on fat burners, here's what you should do. Take your money, light it on fire. At least you'll get some warmth. It's a better way to use it. I like that.

Are they still, like, Doug, if you were to look up like top, selling supplements on Amazon. Does fat burners reach the top 10 still? People still getting duped? Top category of assignments. I know, I mean, a hotter take would be, what's a wasted money would be pre-workout.

Yeah, well, at least pre-workout gives you some caffeine. Well, that's my point. You know how cheap caffeine pills are? Yeah. Sure. Coffee. Yeah, just take coffee. And just what, so take your favorite.

Yeah, this is so, I mean, I'm going to get railed for this one. for sure. I'm knowing a lot of heat. Take your favorite pre-workout, look at the back, how many milligrams of caffeine it is, go buy yourself some cheap milligram, cheap caffeine pills. Take the same amount of milligrams of caffeine and tell me if you feel that much of a difference. So here's where I'll argue with you, because beta alenine, citraline, in certain doses, you know, certain amino acids for recovery, creatine, which they'll sometimes put in them, does have data. that supports their value for athletic performance in the gym. So there is some data to support some of it.

Of course. In terms of blood flow and all that? Yeah, there's some, it's okay. But of course, the people like pre-workouts because it's a stimulant. Yeah. I mean, that's the main reason. That's the biggest bang right there that you're getting. But like fat burners, waste of money.

They don't burn anything. You give them to people, control their diets, give them to another, you know, give another group of people a placebo. If you were to classify, is there different classes of them? Like, which one do you think would... Oh, you put vitamins in there? You take vitamins out. Effectiveness.

Just straight supplements. Because you're going to get a bunch... If you put vitamins in there, you're going to get a bunch of other stuff. But I do know that fat burners, the category of supplements known as fat burners, is a big category. Whether it's the top... I used to be for sure. Yes. Like, it was, I mean, in our era of being trainers early on, oh, my God, that was like...

The top three would be some sort of xenadrine. fat burn. I mean, they were all, they were definitely the top. By the way, even if we go back then, you could argue

that the fat burner combo that might have had some data to support, it would have been the ECA stack, the old school. Ephedra, caffeine. Well, yes,

because it's the fedra. But here's what happens when you take those stimulants. You just move around like crazy. It's more than that. It suppresses your appetite. Both. Yeah.

You eat less and you move around like crazy. Recipe for burning body fat. I mean, that's what. That's why they stuck around so long was that you'll have people that are like, oh, no, when I took that, whatever, I definitely was, I was losing weight. It's not like the video infographic where you take it, then all of a sudden, it's like,

you're fast incinerating inside the body. No. And by the way, even pointing to those types of fat burners, which you can't buy a Fedra anymore in that way. You can't buy a Fedra by the way. You just can't buy it as a fat burner. You can't sell that, but you can still buy it. But the reason why those weren't even great was because the appetite suppressing effects wear off.

And you get really adapted to the heavy stimulant effect or load to the point where you need it to then feel normal. Yeah. And then when you go off, you have this period of time where your lower energy than you normally would be because your body adapted, then you feel like garbage. And so the long-term fat loss effects of even the super powerful back in the day of Fedra caffeine aspirin, aspirin stacks. The long-term effects show no real benefit. Short-term, but then you stretch it out, people gain the weight back and feel like garbage. And then the hormonal effects aren't that great because it really does produce kind of this sympathetic stress state in the body. But today, even, these fat-burning supplements are just, it's the largest waste of money.

Any guesses on ones that are popular today or Sonte? Doug didn't have a good time. Of fat burners? Yeah, yeah. Because I, again, I remember like I wish I remember more names than just like the the xenadrin's and the hydroxy cuts and the ones that were Speedstack. Yeah, those were all FDRA. Yeah, exactly. There was other ones though that weren't just a Fedra base. There was other fat burners that were Pyrruva. Yeah, Pyrruva. CLA.

Lipotropic transport. So, yeah, lipazzozine or something. Yeah. There was a lot of brands like that, right? I mean, I remember the sales pitch when it used to tell. It transplates the fat from your liver and then transited into your bloodstream so you can then convert it off as energy and then burn it as fuel

and then like travels remember drawing that on a piece of paper? Here's the payruve you draw a little post this is bullshit. You know it drops in the crept cycle and normally it drops it about six to 16 minutes when you take pyruve it gets there immediately and so it's burning fat.

This is how they trained us to sell the stuff. But no, you mean you read the studies. I'm laughing, I believed it okay? So I believe the hype when I was sold out. and they're just largely a complete waste of... This is true for a lot of supplements, by the way.

Okay. If you compare supplements to exercise, diet, sleep, they're all a waste of money. None of them come close to those things. Now, if you take supplements to fill a nutrient deficiency, it makes a big difference, right? If you're... That's the cheap stuff, right?

If you're lacking vitamin D, taking vitamin D will actually feel life-changing. If you're lacking in zinc, it'll feel life-changing. If you're lacking in B12, it'll be life-changing. But when it comes to these kind of exotic supplements, especially the fat-burning category of supplements, I mean, you can go ahead and waste your money, but that's exactly what you're doing. It does absolutely nothing for fat-burning. Yeah.

It's a total waste of time of money. And here's where it gets, some people are like, well, what's the negative? Like, who cares? Like, let people take these supplements. I'll argue this. When people take a supplement, and I'll paint. Two scenarios. Scenario one, the person is also adjusting their diet and exercising and doing things right.

They'll give more credit. If they give any credit to the supplement, it's more credit than is deserved. Right. Which takes it away from what's really doing the magic. And then scenario two, they're not doing the diet. They're not doing the exercise portion. They take the supplement. They get no benefit.

And now they think something's either wrong with them or they need to take more of it or they need to find more supplements. And so it just moves us away from what is actually effective. I've always argued that if you have the throwaway money to do it, then do it. Because the best research around it is the behaviors that happen when people take supplements. Less about the supplement that you take. The disciplines you get. There's definitely a cohort of people that then are more likely to do this.

100%. 100%. They took this $70 bottle of whatever. Yes. Yes. I mean, I know. Now, if you're somebody who is. you know, cannot throw away $300 to $500 a month,

then I would tell you save your money. Like, like, absolutely don't. That's a lot, $300 to $500 a month? For supplements? Yeah, you think people are spending that much? Bro, you, you, you, no, no, no, I'm not everybody. No, I know, I know, but I mean, I'm not you were, I mean, I'm not you. I was spending 320 years ago with, bro, you know why?

You've had to buy supplements in so long. You have no idea what they cost, dog. You have no idea. You know, you know what? like a just a handful of supplement, like your basic supplements, we cost somebody in a month. They're spending three to $500 a month.

Easy. Yeah, they're consistent. Easily. If you, yeah, you, one bottle that's for building muscle, one body that's like overall health stuff, one, one, yeah, no,

you're quickly up to three, $500 a month. Okay. And supplements. Imagine if people spent that on a personal trainer. Yeah, right? Oh my God. Yeah. You spend $500 a month on a personal trainer.

That would get you five sessions, maybe. So one session. Sure. a week or a little more. Far better. Oh my gosh. I mean, are you kidding?

Granted with a good trainer. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, not just any coach, but a good one. Yeah. And they're, I mean,

they're out there, but they're also, so my brother-in-law reached out to me and he's, I've been helping him and his wife. And, uh,

I mean, they're doing great, right? And it was like, I gave him, and he's, you know, he's, you know,

he's, you know, he's, I've been his brother-in-law for 16 years, but we're just now having this like this conversation. And he's like calling Katrina behind him. He's like, Adam's brilliant.

I can't believe. He's like so, he's like so bonded. I'm like, I'm not even the smart one of the group. You know, he should listen to the podcast. It's like,

I said, this is, I just distilled it down to like very simple things for him and his wife. The follow. I said, don't work. Don't think about anything else but these couple things, right? And it's like hitting it hitting his protein intake, doing your best to hit whole foods. Lift weights literally two times.

I said, don't do more. I'm going to give you a MAP 15 program. Don't do more. If you do anything. more walk and then do the thing i'm saying with protein right and he's like oh my god i'm getting stronger and then so they're they're wanting like the next level the more things and and he's like and he was telling me how his wife is having some challenges with some different things and i'm like hey listen if this is something you guys where you're at in your life or you want to make this

lifestyle change forever because that's what i'm getting that sense of getting from him i'm like honestly get her a coach for the next five to six months like go hire a trainer one day day a week that and I said this is how I want you to do it go to the go to your local big gym where there's a lot of trainers and stuff in there go straight to the boss go right up to the front desk go like who's the boss of all the trainers or who's the GM I said I want to talk to him and then literally ask for the best best most experience yeah the most experienced trainer I said if you do that and you you go in and this is for anybody else who's listening like when someone ever came in and asked me as the boss that I always if you demanded that then I know you you

you've probably done your homework or you know what's going on. And so I want to make sure that you have a good experience. Otherwise, you get whatever trainer is available based off your schedule. And then it's kind of a roll of a dice. Do you get the young kid who's only been training for a year and just, you know, what just started or whatever? Or do you get the really experienced, very knowledgeable trainer because you asked for it? And so, yeah, he went and did that.

And, you know, they're having a great experience. But I still think in your average gym, what percentage, would you say would be you would put on that level of trainer. We just had an example of one of our trainers that work for us. She takes off leaves, moves somewhere else. Now the top trainer. Within two months is the top trainer at a high end, very nice place. And, uh, these days very.

And yeah, so and she, 10%. I see. I mean, that's, that's pretty. If there's, if there's, if there's, if there's, if there's 10 trainers in a gym, maybe one. Okay. So that's, that's why I wanted to bring this up because I think it's important. important we communicate this because we we do say that a lot like to people like oh you should take that money invest in a trainer but I think what happens a lot of times is people might hear

that advice or have heard that advice then they go do it and it's just like in all it's like they don't get life changing experience they get someone who works them out really hard every single time they come in they sweat and they get the motivation piece and they're like okay well that wasn't as life-changing as these mind-pump guys it talked about. So I think it's important that you go find that quality matters for sure. Oh, a huge difference because the coaching, I mean, I know what kind of coach I was

year one through five versus back 10 is totally different. The way I communicated health and fitness, way I communicated diet, the way I trained somebody. Just what you focused on. Yeah, exactly. And that's the part that can be life-changing. And that's not to say that somebody who doesn't have a ton of experience can't give a client a great

experience. I mean, if you were to ask my client, in those first five years, they'd say probably nothing but nice things about me. But I'm very aware of my skill set at that time. And I know that I wasn't, and maybe a couple people, I'd change their life. But I think they would have changed their life anyways. I think it wasn't until the back half of my career did I get to a place where I really knew how to communicate that. And so, you know, I think when you say that, you also have to say, go get the top 10%,

you know, which means you have a 90%. chance you're not going to have that experience. Well, you'll get 100% chance your fat burners not going to do anything. You know, you wonder what's funny. I mean, that's a good. That's a good point. Even the worst trader is still better than that.

So I'll get your back on. I'll get your back on. I'll tell you what. He was weird about what, as we're talking, it's so funny, right? We're talking about the category of supplements in those fat burners. The supplements that have actually been shown in data

to have some proven, let's say, fat loss effects aren't even in the category of fat loss supplements. In the muscle building. Either muscle building, because I'll argue cratine. Or health. Yes.

Or health. Probiotics. Of course. Probiotics are never sold as fat burners. And I'm glad they don't sell as fat burners because that's a whole other regulatory nightmare for them. But you look up the meta analysis. We work with a company called Cid that does probiotics.

And the main benefits of probiotics are health, gut health, skin health, mental health, like anxiety and stuff like that. And that's all backed by data. Probiotics have a lot of supporting data. So it's actually really well-backed category of supplement, especially if you get a good probiotic like seed. But then you look at the fat-burning effects or the fat loss effects of good probiotics. And they crush every other fat burner. And it's not even that much.

But they crush it. So like I looked up a meta-analysis and a person who took a good probiotic over a 16-week period could expect about an additional one to two pounds of fat loss. which is actually a lot when you look at the category of fat burning supplements, which is usually zero. Yeah, yeah. So you're looking at a one to two pound an additional of fat loss, but I don't think you should take probiotic for fat loss. If you take it for fat loss, that's fine.

But the main effects are things like overall health inflammation. Well, you have to explain that because, which, and I think all of us, our experience have seen this. Like how many times have you had a client who was consistent with their training, ate very healthy or really healthy and could not see fat loss or building muscle. And it was because they had gut issues. And then when you got to the bottom of their gut issues.

And then all of a sudden they start, they start building muscle and losing body fat. Well, I'm reminded of that one kind of, I guess it's a funny study, but it's where they take, they transplant, poop from a healthy. Fecal transplants. Fecal transplants. And it's substantial the health markers, the person received. And that's just altering their gut bacteria.

The animal studies on that are wild, bro. They'll take obese mice and lean mice and do fecal transplants. In other words, give the fat mouse, you know, microbiome to the skinny mouse and vice versa. And then the skinny one becomes fat and the fat one gets lean. I mean, that should tell you a lot. And again, they're not going to advertise, you know, you like, you know, popular. populating your gut with like beneficial bacteria is like a fat loss like solution because all the claims. But I mean, just in that fact alone, you could see how it would be possible.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for 100%. It's funny because the ones that have all the data, what you should do, I think this will be smart for someone if they had the time and they enjoy doing this stuff. What you do is look at supplements that generally have the most data supporting them for whatever they're advertised to do. and then look at the data and see if there's any positive side effects as a result. For example, creatine has lots and lots of data showed increases strength and lean body mass, but mostly strength. All the data shows you're going to get stronger for the most part if you take creatine.

Most people experience maybe two more reps on their lifts or five more pounds, which is huge for a supplement. So we know that. We know it does that. The data is like pretty unequited, like it's back. but then look at the potential side effects of that, which is, okay, little increased volume. Is that going to contribute to more hypertrophy?

What does hypertrophy or muscle growth do for metabolic rate, insulin sensitivity? How does that affect fat loss? So I think you're more likely to find better supplements for what you're looking for. If you just look at supplements that have a lot of data supporting them for whatever they're good for. And then what that could potentially do for you. Another way to say that, too, is, again, to really focus on trying to optimize your health. health first. Oh, yeah.

Then the fat loss and the muscle building part comes. Totally. And it's just not really where everybody approach it is. You know, and I think of the same thing on the, getting healthy. I think the same thing with movement. You know, I just had a conversation with my sister-in-law yesterday who just came out of surgery. And, you know, having major knee problems now. So she had, she had like calf surgery.

And you could see that she's just out of her physical therapy. but she's walking like an old grandma right now and she's not and she is in serious knee pain and low back stuff going on and everything like that and the doctor is telling her well it helped you lose weight you know because she needs to lose some weight and I'm like well yes

the hever you are the more it's going to exacerbate it but you don't have a bad knee I said what happens you've been casted for eight weeks and you lack the ankle mobility and strength in your foot and ankle and I said, and I'm probably also your hip. And I said, and now the knee is being stressed. And so you going and running or trying to just run the weight off

or exercise the weight off is not going to fix the movement problem that you have and the lack of mobility strength. And so, I mean, I must have said it like four times to her to get it through. She's like, well, I just want to do this exercise of these. And I'm like, yeah, but if you do that and you don't fix this, you're still going to have knee back issues if you don't do that. It's like. That's all upstream from...

Exactly. It's all upstream. And so I'm not saying that you shouldn't lose weight or losing weight won't help, won't help, but it's not addressing the root cause. Get healthy movement-wise first, and then the other stuff comes. The same thing I feel like works with your gut and diet and getting your vitamins and minerals and the things that the macro and micronutrients your body needs. And then the fat burning and the muscle building comes. And so if you, if so investing in supplements, I 100% believe in that help that.

Yes. So if you, if something helps you get better sleep, it's probably going to help you get better fat loss. Yes. If you're deficient in a vitamin, then taking that could be massive towards that process. But we want to jump to the performance ones right away. We want to jump to the one that builds muscle or the ones that burns body fat and go that round. It's like, you know, and to your point with the seed probiotic, I mean, that's like getting your gut healthy. Get your gut healthy.

That's such a root. And then that is such a route for so many people, like go fix that. And then the other things come afterwards. Speaking of things that now we're finding have other benefits. So do you guys know what the category of PDE5 inhibitors are that medicines? You heard it. Viagra, Cialis. You know, ones that.

They're becoming like almost over the counter now. Bro. Okay. So blood flow. Yeah. So what they do is they inhibit an enzyme that breaks down nitric oxide. So you have more nitric oxide. Your blood vessels dilate, they relax.

And they, and you get more blood flow. But these drugs were, originally researched for blood pressure. The side effect, blood pressure was kind of a modest, minor response, but everybody was getting boners. So, of course, they're like, cool, this is what we sell. Yeah.

This is way better. Blood pressure, love. Hey, imagine being the person who's, like, doing the research and the study, and you're, like, interviewing each patient afterwards. Like, so how do you feel? It's going, you know, I'm just getting a lot of boners. Like, how does that come out?

Yeah. Like, they couldn't have been on the list, right? No. You think that was, like, on the questionnaire? They can't be on the questionnaire. They're testing their blood pressure. pressure and they're like, okay, there's a three-point draw, like minor. Like, I don't know if there's an effective.

Like, anything else you're noticing? Like, well, my erections are really, like, hard. That's what I mean. Like, like, wait a minute, this is the fourth guy. You can't think that everybody came out and said that, right? Like, you're with a doctor. He's asking you about blood pressure stuff. Well, I bet you.

Back then you can't. I bet you a lot of the test participants reported it because if you're in a study for blood pressure, you're probably someone with high blood pressure, which also. Oh, you probably. You probably lack, you lack getting their directions. All of a sudden you're getting them and you're like, hey, I'm getting them. That's right. Because erectile dysfunction is much higher in people.

That's a good point. That's a good point. So it was surprising, I'm sure. So that makes, because you got to think that it's not on the questionnaire. They're not asking that directly back then. No. That's kind of a private thing that probably a lot of people aren't going to be forthcoming. This is showing up with one in there.

Yeah. That would be really funny if, like, another patient walked in with a boner. Yeah. I doubt it was like, but you're, you hit it probably. Sorry, this is a little tight on your arm. Oh. Yeah. You're right.

You're right, though. That's probably more what it is. They were so surprised. Which was probably why they're like, oh, my God, we might have a home run here. So they're obviously these are super popular medications. But now they're showing that men that take these regularly, even at low doses, reduce risk of risk. Yeah, health benefits. Heart disease.

Like, I think we're probably, I would say, five to ten years away from these being prescribed just for general health. Okay, I was going to ask you this. Not for sex, but just for general health. I was going to ask you this. So is there... Is there blood pressure? Yeah, just... They're not really prescribed for blood pressure.

We have better blood pressure medications. They are currently prescribed for sexual performance. Low dose is for prostate enlargement. They show benefit. Athletes and bodybuilders like it for better pumps. Now, Sal, is there any sort of down regulation that happens, though, from taking it? So is there like... No.

So for somebody who's already healthy, there's no adverse effects of taking it. No. No. No, you can get too low of blood pressure. You know, you can get stuff like that headaches. If someone may suffer, these are like common, potentially common side effects. But no, not what you're saying.

Now, there may be a psychological dependence. This is different. Where a guy who takes it then feels like if he doesn't take it, he can't perform. The association attached and, yeah. Yeah. And they've weeded this out because they'll give the guy a placebo, make him think he's taking it and he's like, I'm okay.

So it's not that. So, but the health, the potential longevity effects are wild. And the way they describe it's like it's exercising your blood vessels. It's keeping them nice and loose and being able to dilate and whatever, which helps the brain. I think there's a reduction in dementia from guys are taking, but I know blood clots, stroke. Now, this is the reason why this has been able to almost become over the counter, right? They're healthy. Because they're healthy.

Yeah. And they're seeing that there's no like real adverse effects of somebody taking it on the regular. No. No. Again, the main thing you would want to watch out for is a low drop in blood pressure. pressure. And then the joke, you know, like if you have an erection last in more than four hours, you know, type of deal. That's pretty rare. And that's because you probably took too much. Yeah, or something like that. That's pretty rare. What, and that, God, imagine how, what a terrible, what a

what a terrible, like urgent care visit. Weird, too. Like, four hours isn't that big of a problem. Yeah. I was going to say, you could work through that. Four hours to be. It is, but I don't know. Yeah, but I couldn't imagine if like, okay, because in that scenario, it's probably like, it's painful. Yeah, and it's just not going away. And you're like, man, I'm trying to be with my kids. Right? Like, what's going on? It's hurting.

Yeah, I know too much. TMI. Well, what do you do in taking it at noon? Yeah. He's got a funeral to go. Because if you took it at 8 p.m. at night, you know what I'm saying? Like, so you got one through the whole night. You know what I'm saying?

It could be work. It can't be that bad. It's like being a teenage boy, everybody. Yeah. Yeah. What's going on? Right back to that. I'm hanging out with my dad.

Why is this happening? I know. Anyway, hey, did you guys? So I want to show you guys. I brought this up off air. You didn't know this, Adam. It's so freaking cool. I'll have Doug look it up.

So did you know that there are underground tunnels in Vegas that are made just for Tesla cars? Now, this isn't on the conspiracy thing. No, no, it's for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Uber drivers used to tell me about this when I was there. If you own a Tesla, you can take these. This feels like the Hollywood stars who have all the LA tunnel. Supposed that they can use.

No, look it up. Doug. Look up the videos. They built it, yeah. Oh, there's actual real video. Yeah, bro, you go in there and the car self-drives. It's a tunnel and it goes under the strip. You can go from place to place super fast.

So if you own a Tesla, you can use it? Only Tesla. Only Tesla's allowed. There you go. So the Vegas Loop built by the boring company is an operational expanding underground transportation system in Las Vegas using Tesla vehicles to shuttle passengers between stations. It's open in 2021. Yeah, dude.

So I... So, yeah, I asked my wife's family who lives. in Vegas and they're like yeah. Like, yeah, dude, if you own a vet, like, oh, show this video, Doug. I mean, it's incentive to own one there for sure. Yeah, I want to see this. It's crazy. So, okay.

I so want to go in it. So they're not, they're not just a bunch of Tesla down. It's your Tesla goes down there. It goes onto a track or something. Is that how it works? It just becomes a self, it's the self-driving mode kicks in. And you tell it where you want to go. And so there's different stations that you could drive to.

So you could bypass. I wonder, like, it just does the main like, uh, hotels on the strip? I believe so. Did these, did these, did these, did these, Do tunnels exist prior to using them that way? No, they built them. So they actually built them? They actually built them.

Wow. Think about what a selling point that is, especially if you're trying to get around. Why? When they have big events there, too, that was like the only way you could get around. I heard like. Well, especially Las Vegas is a pain in the ass of it.

Oh, God, the strip. Like F1 and all that when that was there. Oh, God. Imagine, you know, how tough that would be right. Yeah, what a pain. But yeah, it's like a narrow tunnel. I want to see if Doug can speed up the or fast. Is that, is that where?

No, but this is part of it. Let me see. Yeah. I can't listen to it, no? There it is. That's what it looks like. It's literally like a little tunnel and your car just drives through. That's it.

And you end up and you pull and it pulls you out and you're on your station or whatever. Isn't that cool? Makes you wonder how many subterranean things. Well, I remember when, you know, obviously before Tesla, I mean, it was Elon, right? That came out and said like the idea of us like flying cars is ridiculous. It would be far smarter. go underground. Go underground, right?

What was the other thing that he wanted to make the speed tunnel underneath? It was like the vacuum seal. Yeah, the vacuum one. Yeah. Yeah, that was crazy. Because I thought, well, there's like the fast, that train that's in Japan that goes like the bullet train. Yes, yes, yes.

It was supposed to supposedly because it's like electromagnetic, if you could do that and like contain it in a tube, like it would go even faster. Hyperloop. Hyperloop. That's the one that they were talking about. Yeah, you know that it would create. a sonic boom out the other end of the tunnel, so they had to figure out, like, the aerodynamics

to prevent that from happening. Really? Yeah, because you're flying super fast. With those, I don't know how much. You're not going to mock. 760 miles per hour. That's the hyperloop. Yeah, 760.

Holy cow. That's so the super fast train in Japan does not go that fast. No. They go like 200 miles an hour. That's nuts. Have you been on them, Doug? I have.

Oh, you've been on a bullet train? Oh, yeah. It's so great watching everything go by. It's like, it's a blur. It's a blur. Is it smooth? Super smooth.

Yeah. I mean, you get some movement, of course. That's cool. And they're very safe. Yeah. From what I heard. No. Is there, is it one train that does that?

Or is there multiple trains? I mean, they have multiple trains. Yeah. Dude, speaking of Japan, do you know, I've been watching with my son recently? What? Old Godzilla movies? The ones from the 60s. Those are so fun.

My son got into that for a while. Oh, dude. The old ones? It's like, at first I'm like, is he going to like this? Because it's not like, CGI. Dude, he's so into it. There's a new Apple trending movie. Monarch.

Yeah, Monarch. It's all about monsters or something like that. It's Godzilla. He has Godzilla and then King Kong in it. Did you watch it? Yeah. Is it any good? Is it good?

Yeah, has Kurt Russell in it. Yeah. I saw, I saw, obviously, I, I liked it. Yeah, it's entertaining. I can't get Katrina to watch stuff like that. Yeah. I saw it. I'm sure the guys have watched it.

But I was watching it with my son. When I was a kid, I was super into those movies, those Godzilla movies. So now I'm watching it, and it's like, man, they built little cities. There's a guy in a costume, obviously. So when you watch it, it's like a dude in a costume. But they built all. all these little cities and there's fireworks and they're stepping on stuff. And I'm like,

oh, man. I've always wanted to, like, do that. Oh. It's crushed. Yeah. Buildings. I think every boy. Every boy was so fun.

I know. Oh, man. That's so cool. Jeez. Dude, last night, I, my wife moved with such quickness. I've never seen. It was a spider. It came out.

It was a spider web. The spider came down right in front of us by watching the media. And she got it? Bro. She went. She swung twice and, like, jumped. and rolled out of bed and ended up in the corner of the bedroom. She's like, get out the bed to me.

Now, I don't move like that because I'm like, whatever. I'm probably hurt myself. So I'm like, what's going on? She's like, get out the bed. But she moves so fast, bro. Like, I was actually quite impressed. I was like, damn, girl. That was fast.

Did you get the spider? We did. Oh, you did get it. Yeah, because then it was in the bed. And I'm like, dude. You can't go to sleep. Oh, hell. I said a little prayer in my head because I'm like, if we don't get the spider,

she's totally not going to sleep in bed. Because I don't care. I'll go to bed anyway. wouldn't even go to bed. Oh, no, I got a spider. A spider landed in my bed and I can't find my spider. I'm probably sleeping on the couch. No, dude, I would have slept in there.

I just would have moved around. I'm like, you're darned. But I was too tired. But no, I lifted the covers and we saw it and I got to, I caught it or whatever. The way she jumped out of bed from like being kind of like half asleep from watching, you know, I'm like, yeah, that is impressive. That is really fast. What's more impressive to do you now at our age is that when we move like that and we don't get hurt.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you move by the pull a ham near in. Yeah. That's impressive. Like when I thought to fire, when there was a fire in the kitchen, I thought I moved quick, but I was slow. My body protected. Bro.

Oh, this is, dude, spiders. Like, when I think I told you guys. Oh, you told me, I was like, oh, my God. So just the bark. So they live, like, and I had to, like, cut down these redwood trees on my property. Yeah. And I was, like, doing all the chopping and all that stuff. So I was, like, getting rid of, like, these huge, like, bark that you just kind of rip off.

And on the backside of it, I saw the biggest, like, non-terantula spiders. I think it's a redwood spider. I think it's like a little, it just was hanging out there and one of them jumped, you know, at me. I was like, I was out there trying to kill it.

And thankfully, dude, it was, it's scary, dude. Now, are they sharp looking? That's the ones I don't like, you know, the sharp looking legs. Big butts and, you know, when they have big butts, it's like, oh, God, I'm in, I'm in Ford. Not big butt spiders, too.

The hairy, like, none of that stuff, dude. Tranchalos moves slow, so they don't, they don't bother me, but the other, like, that would bother me. Oh, yeah. That's too, that's too sharp. Yeah, you look at the butt. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't like it at all. That gets, it got really big. It makes my skin crawl just seen it. It was even bigger than that. Like, it was literally like the whole palm, like one of my, uh, one of the ones. Change the channel, Doug. Yeah. Hey, when you, Justin, that wood, you were splitting.

You can't burn that. No, it's because it's, it's not real good quality. Yeah, it's, it's like, I mean, when it splits, when it splits normally like that, it's normally pretty dry. Oh, it didn't split. trust me. Well, I mean, I saw you split a couple. I mean, I chose the one that works.

You know. I was like, quite few videos before I got a good split. You Instagrammed us, bro. You Instagram for you. I only show you the best. Yeah. I was like, I totally was watching the stories this weekend.

I commented to him. And he's like, wha. I mean, he's splitting like, I'm like, well, that's really dry. You should be able to burn that. I know he made a comment. But he's like, you know, that's the only two that split.

Like that's strong. Fuck. like hard dude like most of it and it just would be like sink in and then you'd see like water coming up and you'd get stuck in there but the one that I saw you split on the Instagram I'm like I feel like you could burn that

it took me a long time have you seen the axe spliters that put gumpowder in them oh yeah have you seen those boom yeah they're like they're like ax splitters that or apparently when you hit it's got gunpowder and it'll split anything I have never seen that really cool yeah is that like relatively I mean I've been spitz I split wood all time when we were younger.

I never heard or seen nothing like that. I've never split wood. You've never split wood? Wait, what? Yeah. When would I split wood? Like, what, what would ever, why would I ever split wood? You guys never had fireplaces?

Yeah, we buy the logs at the store and we put it in there. I never lived in a long. I actually find that interesting from a guy who spends a whole day canning tomatoes. I would think that you would switch some wood for your fireplace. Now. Sicilians don't, they won't, we make tomato sauce, but we don't split wood. There's no, this is for what? You know?

Tell me to, tell me to, tell me to, tell me to. It is a power thing. It is. Oh, yeah. There's a little bit of, there's a little bit, there's definitely a skill to it too because if you've never done it and you do it. Yeah. And Rocky did it too.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did grow the beard. Okay. Well, that's, that's cool. Okay.

I did not. You've never split wood. Never once. You've split wood, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of manly things I've never done.

Yeah. What my, my, my niece, I think you actually have to split wood in order to come of like a foolman. Is that what's happening? It's a right of passage. Oh, man. It is a right of passage. Well, I'll tell you, you guys want to hear another very unmanly story. My niece, my niece called me.

She was coming home from the mall. And she's like, the light on my, my dash is coming up. And I looked it up and my car is overheating. So I'm like, oh, crap. So I drive over there. I'm like, I don't know what to do if your car overheats. Change the flux capacitor. Yeah, I'm like, I know that we got to look for some fluid.

I'm pretty sure I shouldn't open if it's. Hawks. I remember hearing once. I think God you knew that. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. So I just show up. You know, it's my niece, right? So I show up and I like, I open the hood as if that makes it different. Open the hood. Walk around, you know. That's good. Well, yep, it's not working. Yep. Looks like it's still hot. Like, because Courtney had left and my other son was like competing in St. Louis. So I'm there just with my youngest. And he wanted to watch, you know, the inappropriate movies. I'm going, yes. So we got to watch. What's inappropriate? Like, super violent. Okay. You're not watching like, we've already watched all John Wicks. Like, you just mean him. But we watched Sisu. It is the second one. Oh, did you know there's a second one?

Yeah, it just came out. I've been wanting to watch it. Oh, it was so amazing. The first one was great. Yeah. So there's just one part where he has this like crazy big, like, truck. The second one is good. And, you know, and it's kind of broken down.

It's like overheated. And so he just like grabs it with his hands like, and like opens it and then like pours water. I'm like, okay, so you don't want to do that. Normally that steam does it come up. is going to freaking burn you. No, I literally my FaceTiming my dad. You know what I'm a grown ass man?

Hey, what am I looking at? He's like, that's the wind, that's the washer fluid. So not that one. Yeah. Like, what about this one? Yeah, that's, anyway, turned out to be okay. It was just a light that wasn't really overheated. Oh, so she just pulled over because the light was saying. Yeah, but it wasn't actually overheating, thankfully.

Oh, yeah, you would know, be, it's normal. You can hear it. Yeah, but I don't know. Hear it. Hear what? What am I hearing? You know what I mean? Does it sound right?

Yeah. I mean, I can't talk anything either. I would have just said a whole lot called Coach Tosherk will be able there in five minutes. That's pretty much what I did. Yeah, 100%. Oh, we did the money jars, dude. Oh, you started it.

We did. We did it last night for the first time. Okay, yeah, because it's going nowhere for me right now. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean? What's he doing? Well, I mean, it's, I'm introducing it.

But what I've found is like certain concepts, you know, he takes two and it, and they've been great. There's been so many great things that I've gotten from Figgin' Eagle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From, you know, from Scott's group. And that has been just amazing and we use. And I did, I did switch it. But, I mean, example, yesterday, I'm like, hey, I'm going to wash mom's car.

You want to wash it? Make some money. Yeah, I'm good, dad. Okay. So he's not like really, I separated him. I explained what they were and that we were going to give money to people that go on this one. But, you know, but I mean, one of the things I've learned about my son is I just, you know, I introduce something and then I just kind of wait and then on his terms,

like, there'll be a right time when like, I'm sure what I haven't had yet is there hasn't been a thing that he really wants. And so I think when that, when that happens, I can go, hey, well, let's all work towards it. Yeah, let's work towards it. And then that's how he did last time, right? So that's how it started was the, I told you he cleaned the toilets for $10 each. So that was, that was the beginning of that. That's what motivated me. Oh, let's start the jars and let's start doing it. but I haven't right. So for people aren't familiar, you do three jars. One is donate, one is save, and one is spend.

Invest. Well, save or invest, right? Invest. And so the way we communicated is whatever you put in the save or invest, at the end of the month, I said we'll double it. So we're going to double whatever. So I explained this to me. So he really made me proud, you guys.

So I showed him this. I said, here's a one donate. This is where you give, whatever money you put in here is the money you can give to people who you want to give it to, people. you love or people who need it or whatever. And then the money you save will double it. And then this is the money that you can spend. And you can spend it whenever you want.

But you probably want to save it up a little bit and then whatever. So I said, where do you want to start first? And he had five $1 bills. So I said, where do you want to start first? And he goes, donate. I said, okay. He sold your son. He put $2.

He sold. He sold. I taught the opposite. I go, I go, every time we get $10, we'll put $1. It's still good. It's still good. But I didn't give him any numbers. You were like, you let him do it.

every while. You're like, just give all our money. So I want him. I wanted to, I just wanted to, because I was going to give him like, you know, 10%, but I said, you know what? I'm just going to let him pick. So I said, how much you want to put in there? And he goes, I want to put $2 in there. So I'm like, oh, my God, that only leaves you with three. So he put two in there. He put two in invest and one in spend. Okay. And I'm like, now, you know, here, we don't know yet. He's your son. Well, we'll see. This is the first time because, yeah, let's see when he gets to the point when he wants to spend money and he realizes those jars have way more money.

Well, that's what I'm... So we'll see, right? But here's the other part. It made me like my heart so warm. So we put the money in there and then there was more money that we had. He has a little piggy bank. So we did it again. And he goes, can I take this fight? He had a $5 bell.

He goes, I already know who I want to give this to. I said, who want to give it to? He goes, Nana, that's my wife's mom. So I'm like, you want to give this story? He goes, yeah. So he wrote like a nice little card. We put it in the name. So he mailed her $5.

I mean, that's so great. Now, again, we'll wait and see. When he's ready to spend and he realizes he's got way more money in the other. Yeah, no, I mean, you're kind of where I'm at, right? I've introduced it and we did kind of the first, like, thing of it. I'm like, really, there hasn't been any movement on it. I've been waiting for, like, something that he wants to come. So I can, so I can get you reintroducing it or whatever.

But, yeah, right now I'm trying to explain if dinosaurs were before manner, man or not. Oh, boy. That's quite the conundrum. I'm ready for this one already. I, on that topic, because I know you're reading him, he's looking at the old, the kid's Bible stories. He's read the whole thing, dog. He is super into it.

700 pages. It's that many pages? Over 700 pages. And he's blown through it? In less than a month. Wow. And the only reason why it took that long is because Daddy got a fatigue. Wow.

I was just like, can I get a break? Can Daddy get a break? Wow. We'll do more later. We'll do more. Like, yeah, 700. That's so cool. That's not including the other one.

ones that he's having mom read and do simultaneously, and she's deferred that one 100% to me. Dude. And so, yeah, we would have burned through it even faster. That is so cool. Yeah, yeah. So we're actually, there's five, five pages left that I, again, stopped this last night. I'm like, tomorrow we'll finish this officially. And so we've officially gone.

And that's all Old Testament. Oh, it's the whole thing. Full book. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So it's, but at the amount of questions and. And he's asking good questions. But he's, yeah, yes, he's asking deep questions and wants to know details and challenging anything where he sees or hears discrepancy.

And just, I'm like, okay. That's so cool. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild to watch. So, Wes Hoff, now he's a famous apologist. So he's, you know, he's an expert at apologetics, which is the, this is where you argue in favor of the Christian faith using reason and historical evidence. Okay, so... Is that the definition of an apologetic? Yeah, so the root word is apologia, which means defense.

So it's presenting a defense, but using reason, logic, and historical evidence. Okay. So it's like a very intellectual way. And so you're not really talking about the metaphysical, supernatural. You're talking about the historical evidence, and here's why, and here, you know, and so he's, and he's really good. He was on Joe Rogan, which blew him up. Yep. And now he's on Diary of his CEO.

And that guy asked him some really good questions. And one of the questions he said, he said, you know, how can you trust? And Wes Huff just hit this so well. He goes, you know, when I was a kid, he tells a story. He goes, when I was a kid, I remember my grandmother giving me money. He goes, I don't remember how much money she gave me. I don't remember what it's for. I just remember she gave me money.

He goes, how can you trust these books that were written, you know, 40, 50, 60 years after, you know, Jesus? And so Wes Huff explained it so well. And he said, do you remember what you were doing on September 11th? And he's like, oh, yeah, I was coming home from school. This guy said. So the event and the profoundness of it really affects your memory, number one. And he goes, and number two, those, and I didn't even think of this. So I'll ask you guys this.

When you were kids, how many phone numbers did you have memorized? Oh, yeah. All of them. At least, I mean, a lot. I could have told you 15, 20. I knew every one of my friends' phone numbers, all my family numbers. Yeah. And now how many, you know?

How many phone numbers of anybody you know? Do you know any of our phone numbers in here by heart? No. Yeah. So. Only one I know is my wife because she gave me so much flack after 10 years of being together that I didn't know her phone number. It's for getting credit at like the gas station.

You know, I need points. Always need points or a safe way. Put my number in. Yeah, yeah. Or the safe way discount or whatever. So in though back then, things were passed along through oral tradition and they were constantly repeated and they were confirmed. It wasn't like one person telling one person.

It was like a group of people. No, that's not what happened. Here's what happened. And then oh, and you're always telling this over and over and over and making it as accurate as possible. So it's not like me remembering something from the past. Because now we rely so much on written evidence and records that we don't even have to think about.

Like phone numbers. I don't remember many of his phone numbers. I don't have to. But back then, this is how they recorded and remembered things. And so he was explaining it. And I'm like, oh,

that makes a lot of... Yeah, but don't you can make the argument the other way, too, though, that, like, with storytelling like that, like the telephone game, because there's an example of that where... So that's exactly what he brought up. Oh, he did. He did. And so he said, the telephone.

phone game, if you recall, has rules. You have to say it to one person. You whisper it and you can't repeat it. So that's not how they would tell historical events back then. Right, right. It'd be a group. There would be lots of people. Yes, and it would be retelling it and having to be accurate. Right, right. It'd be some person who witnessed it saw it to tell it to

a group of... Yep. And then they did write it down. And so I thought that was really good. In his background, he's really like an expert on historical texts too. So yeah, like Dead Sea Scrolls. Like, and he can actually read Aramaic in a lot of these like old languages and translate it. And so this is where he actually got his rise of thing because he literally like was on a debate with Billy Carson. Oh, he just destroyed his entire career in one podcast.

Oh, mainly because it was hard to watch. Yeah, it was rough. But at the same time, it was like you see a clear definitive difference of somebody who's like very well educated and, you know, evidence-based versus like, you know, there's definitely information out there that you can pull from. But if you don't have the way to discern through that information, then, you know, that's a problem, especially if you're an authority on these texts. Yeah. It was really, he does such a good job. He's such a smart guy. He's great on Sean Ryan, too. Diary CEO does a really good job. He's a really good interview. He's a really good interview.

Yeah, I watch a lot of his stuff now and have for a while now. He's my favorite are actually when he has like two or three people on and they have like discussions. Debates and discussions. Yeah, yeah. And he does it kind of in a debate kind of format. But it's actually, he doesn't do it. I shouldn't say it's like a debate format. It's done in a good conversation.

Instead of pitting the two people against each other, he controls it. I mean, I've always thought you'd be a really great moderator like this. This is why I've always wanted. And I would, I think I would totally step out of this, like to have. two or three people that I think totally disagree in our space and allow you to control and discern like keeping it cordial so the audience really gets the best of it because I know what like what we see a lot of is like this you know viral videos of people talking about other people's video in a negative way it's like and so drama is stirred up and I've never wanted to do it that way I've always wanted

to do it the way he does it in such a good way that it's like we can bring opposing a views on here, but have a great intelligence discussion. You know what's crazy about what you're saying, Adam? There's so many people that do such a great job arguing until they're invited to debate. Yeah. And then it turns to do it. They don't want to show up. Yeah. They don't even want to show up because they know their argument is based off of sound bites and this sounds good. But being challenged in a real debate format, they get, they just get destroyed. So a lot of people, it's like, they're challenged. And they don't want to. They don't want to go debate because they know that they just, it doesn't hold. Yeah, there's holes there. The total holes. Yeah. Doug, I want to ask you about you've been using the Z-biotic. No.

What was the product that you were using? It's the one that converts to fiber, sugar to fiber product. So I haven't used it for a while because I only had so many of them. But the time I did use it, I think one of the key things I noticed from it was great regularity as far as. It converts carbohydrates or starches to fiber. Yeah, I'd love to get some more of it, actually. That's amazing. I have yet to try that.

So explain what's happening that's unique or different to it than like when I normally eat carbohydrate, it's getting converted over into glucose and then utilizing as fuel. I take this. Good, bro. That's a good question. They're modifying bacteria to do things like convert starches into fiber. You meant zbiotics. That's right, because they're the ones that modify probiotics. Yeah, yeah.

And so it converts starches to fiber. Correct. take it before you eat. Yes. Yeah, I think in the morning is when you take it. Now, some carbohydrates already have fiber or our fiber, like say berries and stuff like that. They're loaded full of fiber and there would be considered a carbohydrate. So it takes things that like potatoes and stuff like that and it's going to come. And converts to higher fiber. Is it because they have two fiber? All fiber. Yeah. Well, I don't know what percentage. So what it does is it takes unused sugars and converts them into,

fibers. Wow. So I'm pulling up the, uh, the details on it right now. So, and you take it before you eat, Doug? Yeah, again, it's been a while since I've had it. So I, I don't recall exactly. And I wonder how that's so wild. I wonder how that gets, uh, changed in a, in the, in the, in the context of a calorie surplus versus a deficit. So is that mean in theory that you could be in a slight surplus and then that food that was extra sugars? No, I don't think it turns it into an insoluble fiber. It still makes it, It's still a soluble fiber, if I'm not mistaken. But it should change the glycemic index. It should load.

It should change the digestibility. Yeah, digestibility. Okay. Your insulin response should change all those things because it makes it a slower digesting. Interesting. Maybe I'll mess around with it. I wonder if I would see if I could see any different. Let's have Zibiotic send us some.

Yeah, I want to try it. A bunch and I haven't really. Especially considering I know that like sugars in particular, like make my psoriasis flare up more. And so I wonder if that like, and if that has more to do with my gut and digestibility, and that's why it does it.

Zobotics is so cool, right? So they have their pre-alcohol drink, which converts, takes a bacteria and modifies it so it breaks down acetaldehyde. So you drink it before alcohol. That's what they're most famous for. Feel better.

But the science that they're working on is on bacteria. How can we... Modifying bacteria. Modify bacteria to do things that we want them to do. and this is the next one, which is turned genuine sugar into fiber. Yeah. But the sky is the limit with what they can do.

We should all get some and then do a little test with it for a while because, I mean, remember how blown away we were by the alcohol drink? Yeah, the pre-alcohol drink. I mean, that was like, all of us were like, holy crap. The only thing I ever tried that actually works. Yeah. So, I mean, curious to if any of us notice any sort of difference. I mean, Doug says he noticed a difference. So here's how it works really quickly.

It's a genetically engineered probiotic, designed to turn sugar from your diet into fiber in your gut. It produces an enzyme called Levan sucrose, which uses excess dietary sugar to create rare Levant fiber gently and continuously throughout the day. So you just take it in the morning. Oh, wow. And throughout the day, it will be doing this conversion. And the thing, like I said, I noticed about it was more regularity. So better gut health, basically. Better gut health.

Is it also like in a liquid form? Is it pill form? No, it's just a powder. Oh, powder. Oh, it's a powder. If I recall. You know what I... You know what I?

They have different flavors, too. They have maple. You know what I'll be interesting, interested in to see CGM readings. Yeah, yeah. Test that out. Eat the same food. See how it affects your blood sugar. That's right.

I mean, it would have to. Yep. If that's what it does, wouldn't it? I would think. I would imagine. Yeah. That's wild. I know.

They're doing some pretty interesting stuff over there with bacteria. Well, I remember when we first, we first, We first talked and the pre-alcohol thing was not something that they were super passionate about. It was just a low-hanging fruit. Yeah. It was like alcohol is such a popular thing in our society. It's something that we can show a massive help. And so it was the thing to get them really going and funding to do all the other.

I remember that they had a bunch of stuff that they wanted to do that we couldn't even talk about that they were more excited about than that. It was like just low-hanging fruit was how he positioned. What does that chart say, Doug? It says four key benefits. What's it showing there when you scroll down? Oh, let me see what you're looking at. What is that showing there? Yeah, so it delivers up to 10 grams of fiber today from sugar you already eat.

So an additional 10 grams of fiber. Yeah, more fiber diversity, gradual delivery of fiber throughout the day, and the diversion of intestinal sugar. I mean, it would be really cool for, like, I mean, how many times you guys had clients that were at irregular stools, and then you would tell them like, okay, I had... Bump your fiber. Yeah, I'd have a go-to, like, I want you to eat two cups of berries, do this.

Like, I'd have them, like, specific foods. I'd have them just to get them regular. I wonder if that same client, they took something like this all of a sudden would see a difference or not. Yeah, so this may be interesting. So it breaks down sucrose to glucose and fructose, then uses the fructose to build fiber,

diverting it from downstream fatty acid synthesis. Oh, technically, definitely then should help with... Sinsitivity. Wow, that's fascinating. Let's have them send us some more because I'd like to try it. Yeah, I like that. All kinds of reviews, huh, Doug? Oh, tons of them. Yeah, tons of five-star reviews on it. Wow. Interesting. Yeah, I want to play with it a little bit. See it. We should all do like a little test run on it and see what happens with all of us because we all eat a little bit different and see if we all can feel or notice a difference. Same way we did with the other stuff. Haya Health makes a multivitamin for kids. It's chewable,

but it's not like a sugar candy. It does taste good, but it doesn't have sugar. And it also has the nutrients that your kids need. Look, most kids' multivitamins are just gummy candies. It's literally a waste of time. Probably not even good for them. Haya is different. It's the only multivitamin we give to our kids.

Head over to HayaHealth.com. That's H-I-Y-A-Halth.com forward slash mind pump. That link will give you a 50% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Zach from Maryland. What's up, Zach? Are you doing this happening? Hey, what's up, guys?

Good, man. Just, just, I just want to start out by saying thanks for everything that you guys do. It means a lot to all the most normal guys out here that don't have a podcast. Yeah, appreciate it, dude. Thank you, man. I'm just going to kind of read my question so I don't get all jumbled up here. You got it. I'll be turning 40 in July.

And I want to stop focusing so much. on the scale in the mirror. I've been stuck paying attention to the aesthetics for too long and haven't really seen much of a change. I want to shift my focus to something more meaningful and just don't know what direction to go. I'm a normal guy, wife, two kids, one more on the way in May. Work schedule that starts at 6.30.

So I'm currently running Maps 15 performance. you know time time matters you guys all have kids you understand so I don't know I used to have a 4 or 5 deadlift probably about 15 years ago back in my horrible CrossFit days

so I don't know should I get back to that or should I go be you know like Adam go be the mobile guy the mobility guy for a while or should I just try and get really strong at different lifts, you know, the odd stuff that, you know, you don't really, not the normal three, but like the, you know, like Justin did the overhead press, you know, should I get really strong at that?

I'm just kind of trying to figure out a direction to go and figured you guys could help out. Good question, man. How old are your kids? because you got one on the way, and then you got two, how old are the other two? Nine and, well, one will be nine in March, one will be five in July. Oh, good for you, man. And then when's the baby due? May 16th.

Good for you, man. All right, so you have two other kids, so you know what that whole season looks like. Yeah. Do you enjoy working out? You've been pretty consistent with it? Yeah, so I've been really consistent the past, I'd say three, three or four years. I've been listening to you guys for since like 2017 or 18 and kind of wasn't, you know, my daughter was born in 17. So, you know, the ups and downs of a new baby.

I wasn't as consistent, but I have been pretty consistent, you know, at least two, three days a week. I usually combine like the maps, the 15. I combine those into one day, the two, days into one day. It just worked better. So I've been really consistent to pass, like I said, like three years, maybe stretched to four, but before that, it was kind of like hit or miss. That's great, dude. That's really good, man.

I'd say considering the context of what's going on, you work, support your family, new baby coming, the best answer I could give you, because the thing that'll get challenged is going to be your consistency. That's the number one thing that's going to get challenged. So I would say pick whatever you think is going to be the most fun for you. Really doesn't matter. Like which one is the one that's going to make you want to go to the gym? Because that's going to be the thing that's going to be the most important,

especially for the first, you know, six months a year of a new baby. And you start early at work. You know, so that's the most important thing. So it really doesn't matter, dude. I love that you're not focusing on the mirror and the scale and focusing on performance. That's a much better direction. So I'll ask you, like, what gets you, like right now, what do you think would be most fun? Would it be getting strong?

Would it be mobility, stamina? Doing that deadlift again. Yeah, what would be the most fun for you? I think the most fun would probably just to get, like, really strong. Cool. Honestly. I think that would be fun. I think the deadlift would be cool.

That would be more of an ego saying, like, hey, I can lift four or five again before I'm 40. But I think the most fun I'd probably have would be doing it. and doing some different lists that are just give me strong. Good. I love that. We'll send you Mass 15 power lift if you don't got it. That'll be your program. Max 15 power lift, awesome.

That's it, man. Zach, are you training at home or in a gym? I train at home. I have like a full rack. I have, you know, landmine stuff, dip station. Sweet. I have about, I think about five or so 100 pounds of plates. My dumbbell selection is a little.

little bit lacking. But I make do with what it is. I have bands. I have chains. I have a good variety of... That's awesome. You're set up. That's awesome. The reason why I was asking, because I, you know, we get in, a lot of us,

are all guilty of this, of getting so focused on, like, the goal of lifting and the programming and the results thing. And it's just like, you know, a lot of my thoughts around this has shifted a lot as I've gotten into my mid-40s and have a kid and a family. It's like the things that are like really important to me is that my son sees that his mom and him work out, you know, but that's just part. Right, right. And we eat whole foods. And sometimes it looks like we're training really good and consistent.

Other times it looks like we're focusing really good on the eating healthy. And, and like that's all, that's, that's what this is about, dude. Like what you, you know what I'm saying, like what you decide to chase after in the gym. It could be one of our programs. It could be getting good at the Turkish kid up, but it's, man, man, when you got three kids or two and one on the way, like, to me, it's like you modeling that, you're winning, bro. Oh, yeah, they come, they're down there with me all the time, man. They're down there watching. They're, you know, they're trying their own little things here and there. Yeah.

Yeah, that's everything, dude. You model, you modeling it and, and, and always just kind of focusing on that that we get in, I go in the garage and lift some things. And, you know, mom and dad, uh, cook the meat. meals at home and we eat together. Like, man, that's everything right there, bro. That's it, man. That's it, 100%. And just whichever one makes is the most fun for you right now,

because that's what's going to keep you consistent through the process. And that's it, bro, that's everything. We actually, real quick, we had our baby shower was last weekend. And I went down real quick before the baby shower and hit a couple of, you know, trigger sessions real quick. And my daughter, my daughter, the nine-year-old, she came down. She said, she said, why are you working out? before the shower.

Like, I'm like just getting a little pump, you know, just getting a little blood flow. She's like, all right, hand me my fives. I'll do a step.

Yeah. So, yeah, that was real funny. But they're down. I, both of my kids are down there. If they're not playing with toys, they're trying to do pull-ups.

They're trying to mess with the suspension trainer. They're doing. You're winning, bro. You're winning, you, dude. You're winning, dude.

Yeah, good for you, man. You're a blessed man. Yeah. Yeah. That's it, man. just,

we'll send you that program. just have fun with it, dude. That's going to take you way further. Yep. Awesome. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. You got to be.

All right, Zach. Give it up, brother. Yeah. Yeah, I think if people approached their training with like what's the biggest challenge is going to be for me. Like, you know, okay, I'm super consistent. That's never going to be a challenge. But injury, injury is my biggest challenge. Well, then maybe your goal would be something that would take care of injury.

Right. But for most people, it's just joint health. For most people, especially when you get a new kid. Like, it's so hard to be consistent with all. that. It's like what's going to get him to go want to go work out? The goal that's going to make him go want to work out is probably going to be the best goal because it'll keep the most consistent. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of where I was going with my question was just getting to like, this dude's working out at home. He's like literally you could do terrible programming. You know what

he doesn't hurt himself? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and what I mean by that is that he's already a strong, pretty strong guy. He's really, he's plenty strong. He's already been working out for him. He's plenty consistent, you know, he's got a gym at home. It's like, man, this is, this at this stage of your life. That's right. Yeah, and enjoy it and let your kids see that you enjoy it. And it sounds like he's doing a great job. And sometimes we can overthink this, especially if you're trying to move away from aesthetics and scale stuff.

It's like, if you're really trying to do that, then let it go. Let it go. It doesn't, you know, you're doing a good job. If he's eating whole foods and making their meals 90% of the time and he's lifting his consistency as it really doesn't matter. at this point. Like, and if you, it's different than someone who comes in and says, I have a specific goal. I want to lose body fat. I want to do it.

It's like, okay, well, then we can get into that nuance. But you're winning as a dad if your kids are seeing you work out every other day consistently, man. Our next color is Katarina from New Jersey. Katarina, how you doing? Hi. Oh, my God. You said it correctly. Yeah.

My sister's name is Katarina. Oh, nice. So is my grandmother. How can we help you? Nice to meet you guys. Yeah. So I guess I'll just jump into my email. So I'm writing because I was overweight for many, many years.

I'm 5'2. I reached over 200 pounds after infertility treatments, infertility treatments, miscarriage, pregnancy, breastfeeding, you name it. General physical toll of having kids. I spent years dieting, trying to lose weight, limited success, until one time that I saw myself holding my youngest and felt embarrassed even shared the picture out. So I committed to myself in that moment that I would change and I followed through.

I lost about 50 pounds through consistent lifestyle changes, including a very short stint, maybe like three, four months, a compound GLP1. During that time, I intentionally kept the dose real low. My string trained. I was adamant about not sacrificing muscle during that time. I was only on it for a few months, like I said, about a year. After that weight loss, I began working with a personal trader.

I had a big box gym, and I've been with him for over a year now. Working with him, I completely unlocked my love for strength training. I'm, like, obsessed. Despite being young, he's like, only 23. He's really focused on safety, recovery, long-term health, that kind of stuff. This past summer, it was the lean as I've ever been. I felt strong. I'm proud of my body. I was really excited to kind of feel good in my skin. Around late September of this past year, I noticed the scale starting to creep up. I wasn't really concerned at first, but then I

all started looking softer. That tripped a lot of fear in me because I worked really hard to kind of get where I'm at and I was terrified of getting the way back. I consulted with a nutritionist, and they basically said, okay, let's slash calories and knock out some protein as well. So they took me down from where I was, which was about 2,200 calories and 175 to 200 grams of protein,

down to like 1,800 calories and 150 grams of protein. For additional context, I train about five times a week, which is down from seven times a week because I was over-training, as I'm sure you guys will tell me. And I do low-impact cardio

and mobility work like twice a week. after the calorie job I didn't drop I didn't see any progress I felt worse I didn't look any better and so after a couple weeks I said screw it I'm going back to where I was I went back up to 2200 calories and since then I was hitting PRs like every day pretty much like peers I felt great but I'm stuck so I'm at the situation where performance wise it's great but I do want to cut out that body fat that I put on the last like you know a few months and so I guess my question is how do we determine when to transition from maintenance back into a cut when you're doing so well in the gym and you're performing so well? That's really my main question, honestly, just mostly that.

Well, let me encourage you, first of all. You're doing really well. I mean, you're working with the trainer. You've been consistent for a while. You're in a really good place. Oh, wow. You're really strong, too. I just saw your numbers. And you're really strong.

Holy cow. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's a super strong. You're doing great. Yeah. So I'm going to answer the question in a second because it's a simple answer, but it's actually more complex than just the answer, okay?

Okay. If you're approaching this, like you saw yourself in the picture and you're like, I need to change something. If you're doing this because you are afraid of going back because that person in the picture has less value or I don't like the way I look. I don't, you know, I hate that person. I dislike that. Then you're going to go through the rest of your life. This fitness journey is going to look up and down.

So as long as you can remain in fear and control, you'll be on. At some point you'll get sick of that and you'll come off. And then that's where you're going to do the up and down. So it's going to feel like it becomes overbearing. I'm going to loosen up a little bit. Enjoy myself for a second. Oh, crap. Scale one up.

Let me hate myself a little bit. more and bring myself back down. And that's going to get exhausting. So I'm going to tell you this right now. It'll get old soon if you stay on that path. So what you need to do is you really need, number one, do this because even that person in the picture has value. You always have value.

Okay. And you need to think of taking care of yourself. Like what do I got to do to take care of myself? Like in a real way. Like somebody you care about, like if it's your kid, I want to take care of this person. So that's the root of it. And it's, I just said it in a minute. it, but it's a constant journey and a constant self-talk.

And you're with a trainer, which is really good because they're going to help guide you along the way. As far as a cut is concerned and all that, I don't think you should cut at 2,200 calories maintenance. That's too low. It doesn't give us enough runway. I think continue to strength train, continue to get stronger, continue to slowly increase your calories, and then cut from a higher place.

I would like to cut once you get up to like, 2,700 calories and you're doing okay and everything's stable. Then I can bring you down to 2,200 calories and then we'll see some fat loss. But again, if you don't address like the fear or any of the self-hate for how I used to be or I'm only valuable because now I'm fit, if you don't address that, it's going to be like this forever. And I'm going to tell you right, it'll get old. It'll get so old at some point. You'll get so frustrated. You'll stop. It'll revert back and then you'll do this on off type of thing. But again, I'm going to encourage you, you're on the right path. I think you're on the right path. I think your strength training is good.

I like that you stop the cut. You're hitting the PRs and you're feeling better. I think that was the right decision. I would continue to slowly move up so we have some runway. Two questions. Have you tested your body fat? Yeah. So I did a bod pod thing like back in. in December. And I was at 22.6% body fat then. I also had access to an in-body scale at the gym, but I know it's like not super accurate. Those things.

I have the numbers. In August, I was at like 18.9% body fat. And then November it was at 21.7. So I mean, I don't know how accurate that really is. Well, those are reading from two different things, right?

Because the most important thing. Sorry. The August 18.9 and the November 21.7 is the same thing. The bod pod, the 22.6, that was a different thing. What changed in that time where the body fat percentage went up? Honestly, I don't know. And that's the thing. Like, I track my macros. I meal plan. I do all that stuff. I didn't change my training. That's kind of where I was at a loss where I felt like I was doing the same things. And out of nowhere, I just started like body fat percentage going up. The scale went up. I gain like almost 10 pounds. Like I really don't know. And again, I don't genuinely like I don't, I don't care about the number on the scale. Like that's a, I genuinely do not care. I'm not concerned about that.

I just see what I see. You know what I mean? So then the other question I had is blood work anytime recent. Do you know where your hormone levels and things are? I did do them probably in October, November. I'm actually due to have them done again. Nothing was off the chart. It's the only thing that ever gets flagged is that my protein is high, which I don't eat a lot of protein.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not really weird. Regular period? No. Actually, I haven't had a cycle since April of last year. Okay. And I did talk to my gyno. I did talk.

And we put me on meds, couldn't figure out. I had ultrasounds. Couldn't figure out why. So we still don't really know why. Typically, okay. So this is, okay, this is where I was going with this. So I don't know if you've been listening to the podcast. podcast lately, but...

For a while, yeah, yeah. So I'm training Corinne right now, who's one of our trainers. Yeah. We just got our body fat test for the second time and totally devastated her. And what happened, we'd gone from like 17%... She was sitting floating around 17% body fat

and shows that we put all fat on, no muscle. And we added like 10 pounds in the scale. And she's just like, oh. And what my theory is on this is, had to dramatically reduce her volume because she was training too high a volume at too low of a calorie for such a long period of time. She didn't have reflection in her period, but I've seen, I saw her test on her bone density. Her bone density was. And so we'll see some things like this where bone density is really low or we'll see irregular periods or you'll see markers way off.

And a lot of times it's this indicator that you've been training too high of volume at too low of a calorie for such a long time, the body is just not responding. And what I had to tell her was, you know, I jumped the gun and had you body fat test again because I was so excited. I thought she looked great. And I thought we were hitting PRs like crazy in the gym. So I was like, oh, I'm going to hopefully show her a bunch of muscle she's added. But the truth is what's happened is we've just got her to a healthy place now. Like her body fat percentage need to go up. The volume needed to come down. And now my theory is we keep heading out the track. We don't change anything. And that what she'll start to see is she'll start to build some muscle.

The muscle, we want it to correlate perfectly with, I'm putting the work in, I'm doing the things, the PRs are happening, so I should be adding muscle, but then when I check this, but it doesn't work that way. It's like how children grow. They don't grow at all for, you know, weeks. And also they sprout up two inches. And you know this as a mother. Like, that's the same thing with how your body responds sometimes with muscle.

It's like, you're doing all the right things. We're not seeing the change that we want to say. Then all of a sudden, it's like, bam, you have this week and you're like, oh, shit, I look way better. And so you could be in this, this stage right now where you're coming from a seven day a week trainer, seven days a week of training, low calorie, that you're kind of just getting healthy. And I think you're heading down the right path where your calories are. In fact, to Sal's point, I would want to slowly increase your calories, even though you don't feel like that's the right thing probably to do

right now because of how you might feel. But that is the path. The path is to continue to fuel your body so it gets healthier. And then as it gets healthier, you're at a healthier place of calories. Hopefully we see the period come back. That would be the big indicator. So like the conversation I'm having with her is like, I want to see that bone density get better.

If I know that gets better, then all of a sudden I bet you our body starts responding better. With yours, it would be like the period would be the conversation we're having, is let's get that right. And then I bet you start to see the response from all the hard work that you put in gym. Yeah, nine out of ten times, a young woman with irregular cycle who exercises and tracks macros, is over-training and under-eating.

So 90% of the time. If we cut your volume in half and bump your calories, I would not, I would be surprised if your period didn't come back within 40 days, 60 days. And the hardest part about this is back to the point I made of not, this isn't like this linear, perfect, like you'll, you'll go through an uncomfortable phase, just like Corinne's going through right now.

It's like she's going through an uncomfortable phase where she's like, all I did was put on body fat, this feels terrible. It's like, yeah, our body is trying to get healthy again. Like we need to get it completely healthy. And then it will respond the way we want to. And so the difficult part will be the psychological part of this is the pathway.

The pathway is to increase these calories, balance your, reduce your training to more like a three day a week full body type of routine. If you want more activity, walk, walking's fine. So like if you need to move and you do something, I'm super pro walk. Go for a walk. But as far as the intensity of training involved, that probably three. days a week is where you need to be and then even and slowly inching calories up and you'll go through a little uncomfortable phase for a little bit but we know we're on the right path when the period comes back and becomes regular again and then now your body's going to respond to you the way it's

supposed to respond to you from the hard work that you're putting in you I saw you make a face when Adam brought that up well let me ask you how long you've been tracking your macros carefully like two years what do you think's going to happen if you stop tracking or what are you afraid of? Getting the way back. You'll never be that girl. A girl that's hitting the weights that you're hitting the weights right now, you will, I don't care if you ate like a monster.

Just so you know. But we got to dig deeper because here's probably what's happening. You tell me if I'm wrong, okay? Maybe I'm wrong. But here's the fear. The fear is if I take my hands off of it, because this is you right now, I got my hands around it. If I take my hands around it, that person inside me that I'm controlling is going to go crazy and just eat everything.

Yeah. Listen. 100%. You can't be healthy treating yourself that way. It just doesn't work. Let me put it you this way. You can't tyrannize yourself to better health, which is what you're doing.

That's what this is. If I don't put my hands around my neck of that person over there and just tell her what to do, the second I take it off, she's going to go crazy and eat whatever. So I got to do this all the time. That's stressful. That's stressful. that's that's not a great that's not a healthy way to live so uh you know tracking i'd have you

stop i'd have you get off tracking now here's what you do you eat whole foods and you hit your protein and eat when you're hungry with your training i would cut the i would cut the volume down and uh and then take it from there and let yourself be scared otherwise i'm going to tell you right now uh what's going to happen is you're at some point i don't know how long you'll stay depends on how stubborn you are, but you can be real stubborn and stay on this path a really long time. And at some point, you're just going to jump off because it's going to be like, I don't want to do this anymore. How long are you, are you prepaid on your training sessions with your trainer? It's like every month, but I mean, I'm committed to working with him.

Yeah, she can. But the reason why I'm asking is, is this is something that we specialize in. Like, this is what our coaches and trainers, like, I'd say, at least 60% of our clients are, they come to us for exactly what you're going through right now. And it's not because of the, a trainer can't tell you, go do these exercises or follow this meal plan.

It's the psychological part of like being able to communicate this product. Because that's going to be the hardest part for you. Like I can tell by your lifts, you're a disciplined person. You're not afraid of a lot of hard work. Like that's not going to be yet. It's going to be the community. It's the reason why Corinne has me.

Corinne's more knowledgeable than I am. but it's me, it's for, it's for the conversation to hear it from somebody else. Are you with the trainer five days a week? Are you, are they? No, no, I work with them twice a week. There you go. Okay, so here's what we could do. You could continue doing your strength training with your trainer.

And then if you want, you can work with one of our coaches for nutrition. And then the conversation with your trainer is, hey, I want to scale down my strength training. And so it'll probably look like two days with your trainer one day on your own. And then the rest of it, you're just walking. And then take it from there. and then increase your calories. We got to get your, here's the bottom line is we got to get your basal metabolic rate to go up before you can cut. We can't cut from 2200 calories.

And we also got to get your body optimal and healthy before it's going to risk it. When if like the period, the bone density, those types of things are our bodies not optimal and healthy. And when they're not optimal and healthy, they won't respond body fat-wise and building muscle. They will. You're fighting your body. And so you're, and you've done a great job this far of getting this far in spite of that. But the next level to this, the next level that you want, we have to first really do that. And like I said, it's the same conversation Corinne and I are having right now.

And man, it just, it breaks my heart because I know how, what it's like to get that test and go like, man, what the hell. We're doing all this work. We're on it. And it's like, you know why? Because we still got to get healthy. We just are getting there And we haven't got the results back From all the hard work we've been putting in

And so there's that period of time You'll have to go through with the increasing the calories And just having somebody to kind of walk you through that And then the other but the other side of this let me tell you It's sick. It's it's less work It's the body you're like that's what I deserve It's your period's regular It's it's all stressful

It's all yeah it's not stressful It's better you eat you eat more It's less work better physique. Everything's, it's on the other side of that, right, is it really is that. And so we just got to get there. Okay. All right. Thank you. Do you want, do you want somebody to call you? Do you want somebody to call you from our team? Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it. All right. We'll do that. And I know it's a disheartening because you're like, man, I thought I cut my training down and I was over training before. Yeah. And I honestly, like the, the hardest thing for me is going to be not true. I love, I love, I've, Love lifting weights.

Like I really like going to the gym and lifting weights. Like it keeps my head on straight, honestly. So like that is going to be the hardest thing for me is going down even more. Like even when I went from seven to five, I was like, are you kidding me? Yeah. Yeah. You'll like it more. Yeah.

And you can still go to the gym. That's right. Still go to the gym. With someone like you, I still actually want you go to the gym. And then what it looks like is I'm like, hey, you're going to walk on the treadmill for 45 minutes. And then I'm going to have you do this like mobility routine for 20 minutes. And so you're still doing movement

and you're still, you're just not really hitting the weights and tents for those two other days. That way you're in your routine. You still, in your vibe, whether you're like you're a music person or whatever. So I don't want to rip that off of you and be like, hey, you can't even go to the gym.

Like, no, I want you still go on the gym, do your thing. But we're just changing the, like, we need to pull back on, listen, your stress buckets overfilled. And you've done really well by still getting results all the way there. But we've got to empty that out a little bit. for it to start responding the way it should respond to you.

And during that process, it's a little bit of uncomfortable phase, but on the other side of it, it's amazing. And you'll be so happy. You'll be so happy. You'll get better performance in days of you lift as well. So you'll get to look forward to that.

I'll have somebody call you. All right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And Sal, I just wanted to let you know, I giggle every time we talk about your dad being in Italy and growing up with like a stick

because that was my experience with my parents in Portugal. same thing. Anytime I would complain about anything, they'd be like, oh, I'm so, I feel so bad for you. What's it like growing up with electricity and running water?

That's good stuff. That's a great. I appreciate what you guys do. You got it. Thanks, Kathy. Yeah, she'll be alright. I think she'll do okay. It's hard.

I mean, when we asked the period question, that's a pretty strong indicator. Well, this is where I had a feeling, I had a feeling, well, I mean, this is top of mind for me because I just broke my heart yesterday to. But she had to gain body fat. And I, and I, I blame myself because, uh, I knew that.

But then I mean, I think, I think she looks so awesome right now. We're hitting PRs. And I thought, damn. It's so strong. Yeah. I'm like, you know what? I want to show her how much muscle she's probably put on already. And then what could have happened, uh, that I knew was, I was very well aware of could

happen, happen, which is we just, we just increased our body fat percentage, which is, but it's healthier. And that's why the PRs were happening is because she's getting healthy. That's right. But yet the... Better neural drive. Oh, yeah. But the results aren't...

We haven't been paid back yet for it. And so a better coach, a better job of me would have been to delay that even longer. I should have waited another two or three months. That way, when we did see results, it was like that time had passed. And so... And this is kind of where she's at. You know, hers is related to her period. And this is what happens is when you're off hormonal like that, you're working against your body.

And there's a period of time. you'll have to go through to get healthy first. That's right. Before it'll start to show you the results. Our next caller is Jana from Texas. Hi, Jana. How are you doing, Jenna? Hello, how are you all today?

Good. Good. How can we help you? Well, it's a great pleasure to have this opportunity to visit with y'all today. I've got some notes so that I can attempt to keep this concise because I will tell you all that I had dreams of what I would discuss with y'all had I won the spin the day with my pump in your winter, in y'all's winter raffle. So today is actually my second chat with you guys. I'm a member of your muscle mommy group. And I got to visit with you guys in that first week when I was contemplating some goals back in the fall.

I ended up going in a different direction after the chat. But it was based on some feedback that I received from Adam about what I thought I wanted to do and what it was going to take to do that. And I changed course. Although I would say I would probably go back to that in a. upcoming season because y'all released Power Lift 15 and that I'm excited about that in the future. So there's my plug for mind pump advertising all the things. Appreciate it. So the email that was picked for the podcast, I'm going to say I would be remiss if I did not

acknowledge that there's an aesthetic aspect to my fitness. And there's also some ego associated wanting to go after PRs. But I'm currently sitting in the midst of my 40s with realistic barriers and limited to going after audacious goals in this phase of my life. So I have recently shifted in the last few years to a mindset of curiosity, and it's been a fun and fulfilling way to stay motivated and disciplined. It's kind of my version of seeking excellence in a season where I'm pulled in a lot of different directions. As a person who enjoys lifting weights and cardio, mainly running and cycling,

my interest was piqued when Sal started talking about an unconventional way to combine cardio and lifting. And then when he actually said, hey, I want to do this. I said, you know what? This is my time. Shoot your shot. Just reach out and say, how do you realistically do something like this? I'm coming from a different angle from Sal because I enjoy lifting weights and doing cardio equally. I've been trying to find a good balance over the last few years, but I continue to find myself fatigued, more fatigue than invigorated with the alternating days protocol.

So I thought it would be a fun way to challenge myself to actually try going a cardio week and a strength week. And then at the time, you had not started your journey cell. And I thought, you know what? let's, I wanted to challenge you and say as a female in a similar stage of life as you, let's set some metrics and see what we can accomplish if we stuck to this for an actual season. Since writing the email, I finished MAPS hit, which followed your Muscle Mommy 15 programming. My very first program was within the, was within your catalog was performance, recommended to me actually by a physical therapist friend.

So shout out to Justin, because most of the first. to those mobility days exposed a lot of my body's bad habits. So I'm currently in week two of Cemetery 15 and in the final phase of rebuilding some body mechanics issues that I had related to running. It seemed to me like the perfect time to try alternating weeks to see if I can keep working on my strength while also rebuilding an aerobic base. Okay, good. So how many days a week do you like to go to the gym? I actually work out from home. And what I've been doing is I kind of took the parameters of the performance, the three days a week. So I combine days one and two, three and four, five, and six.

And then I do day seven, one of the days on the weekend. So really, I'm currently in the really doing the strength training aspect about three times a week. Okay. And then cardio-wise, what do you like to do for cardio? You said you enjoy doing it. What do you like? Um, is mainly running, running or cycling. And I've got a pretty low, um, base right now.

So it's like, you know, probably four times, three or four times a week, probably four to seven miles is kind of my, um, is my current long run. But I'm, I'm, I've got a goal to try to get a baseline of 20 miles a week. All right. And then, uh, how is your recovery ability, sleep and all that stuff? How do you feel with your volume? Um, sleep, sleep is very good. Um, my nutrition. is good. I usually actually, when I increase my mileage, my, my nutrition goes up. I eat a lot more.

Cardio has always been something that actually stimulates my appetite, so I don't have to worry about the under-eating part. My biggest limitation is probably time. And I think that's also the problem with alternating days is because I try to do too much quality in my strength days and then go quality in my cardio days. And there's really, I don't have a lot of room for the, I try to do super intense all the time. Okay. Yeah, you're doing too much.

Okay. So generally speaking, what it would look like is the one week would be just strength training three days a week. All you're going to do is three full body workouts. You're not doing anything else. The following week, you're doing three cardio days. Two of them are going to be steady state. This is where you're going for your long runs or your long cycles.

One of them is going to be more hit style where you're practicing your sprints. And it's going to be very short. So it'll take you 25, 30 minutes. And that's it. That's it. And you're just going to alternate from one to the other. So three full body workouts. The following week, three cardio days, two of those are steady state.

One of them you're doing the hit style sprinting, which can be done on a bike. Or if you have good running mechanics, it would be sprints. Now, the sprints look like. this, you sprint all out for 20 seconds or so, and then you walk and rest until you're ready to sprint again. So however long that takes. And you repeat that like four or five times. I like the MAPs 15 performance protocol that you're following right now as your strength training because I think because of what you brought up with mobility and stuff, I think that's a good program to follow. You keep doing that. And it's just every other week. Okay. Well, right now I'm doing,

And I've done performance and performance 15. I'm currently, I've just started symmetry. I've been doing the. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. But with this, I could probably switch from the symmetry 15 and actually do the full symmetry. Yeah. How many days a week is map symmetry full symmetry?

Is it three? Three, I believe. Or four. Depends the phase. Yeah. So with symmetry, you would do it one week and then one week off. And the off week would be the week where you're just doing cardio. Okay.

That's literally it. And I'd love to have you back on in 60 days to get some feedback on how you feel and all that. Yeah. And I'll do it. Sounds like. Good. Let's have you back on in 60 days. Let us know how it goes.

Sounds great. Thank you, guys. You got it. All right. I mean, I might at some point, you know, with you guys create a program and protocol like this. But just to be clear, for me, none of this is performance-based. None of it is to try to improve my aesthetics. I'm not doing it because I want to try.

dramatic increases in any kind of performance. I'm trying to break the chains of my addiction to strain training. So that's it. And I'll report back on what I noticed. But I'm not like trying to get... No, to be fair, if we do kind of construct and create this, I would like to run it as a performance element to that as well so we can compare it. Because most people would want it for that.

That's right. Most people, this is attractive. Just like she said, I love strength training. I love doing cardio stuff. That's exactly what I would have. Yeah. In fact, I have some good. ideas around it. I have...

We'll have to experiment with that. Yeah, it's a good idea. One version I have is more strength-focused. One version I have is more cardio-focused. Oh, that would be cool. You could really... That's cool. It's cool.

That's right. That's right. So it's... One is version is for someone... Right, right. Who wants both but likes the cardio. Yeah, yeah. The other version is someone who likes the muscle and strength.

And so they're... I see. But they're both alternating. Yeah, yeah. I'm smart. I like that. Our next caller is Cyra from Nevada. Hi, Sarah.

How's going? how can we help you well um i sent in quite a story but basically just was going to boil it down to three important things um for for one i have a tendency to overtrain um i didn't tell you that my with my judicits the background i um i usually train about six days a week that i recently hand the dial back thanks for the holidays for a whole month so um my three questions are i want to keep working out with my husband of years who just started working out with me again and so i don't want to ruin that vibe that we have going on and but i also have some things that i need to work on like my shoulders i ripped my shoulders my boys at the lake um i ripped them completely so if i don't keep on

I noticed that I start having pain again. I want to keep my jiu-jitsu schedule. I coach jiu-jitsu five days a week, so it's important to me. And also, I love the mountains, so I need to spend time out in the mountains running or hiking. So those are the important things I want to keep doing, but I'm not there right now. I'm only training jiu-jitsu three days a week. I weightlift with my husband twice a week. but that's where I met.

And I want to be able to add all the stuff back in without overtraining. Well, you're adding all the stuff back in would be overtraining. Where you're at right now is perfect. Where you're at right now, yeah, where you're at right now is perfect. Adding back in means you're over training. I mean, you're right, you're already right there anyways. It's like this three days a week of BJJ plus two days of strength training is plus 14,000 steps a day.

Yeah, plus 14,000 steps a day. already redlining any more than that is over take away from the other over training injury city uh sleep disruption no results all you all of all the things so what's the question is the question can i add more training or is the question yeah change like a different goal well yeah so i also send in a photo of myself because um i do carry more fat than i would like to um it's not the most important thing. The most important thing is staying active. The most important thing for me is staying healthy. I'm 50. And I have grandkids now. So I just want to be able to keep up with everybody. My kids, I have kids that train Jiu-Jitsu also. So adult sons. So I like to join them sometimes.

But and like I said, my shoulders, I've been off for a month. And I've noticed I started having issues. with them again. So that I need to add back in. I know that. So how can I keep my weight training with my husband at the two days a week? I get what your guys are saying. I know, like, I want to go six times a week, but it's really unrealistic. And I know that. I got sick from doing that. Yeah, yeah. No, it's very unrealistic. You're already, you're already there. I guess, um, mobility. There's a whole lot to it. We, we, well, no, there's like, okay, so you're, you're already doing a great routine, like, because you like BJJ and it sounds like that's a big part of your life. So we wouldn't mess with that. Family is all invested. You like training, strain, train with your husband.

I'm, we're all pro that. I love that. And I love that even, uh, even if, uh, like, what it might look like if I was coaching you is like, depending on how your body is feeling, uh, one of those days with him, you're really going easy. And the other day is when you're kind of getting after it out of those two days because that's that's plenty of intensity. Before you guys get into your weight lifting routine, a good mobility routine around your shoulders would be an optimal way to always start that lifting routine and then try and do that throughout the week to keep those shoulders healthy. So that's what that would look like.

I would do stuff out of our prime pro. I don't know if you do have prime pro. Yes, I do. Okay. Yeah, do the shoulder mobility. Shoulder and scapular mobility stuff on their daily. daily. That'll help. Okay. Okay. Yeah, and I haven't done it daily. I've only, like I'd hit it three days a week when I was doing it consistently.

I did like doing like the overhead press and I haven't added that back in because that's not something he'll do, but it's probably not. I don't know. I sent what I was doing for workout. Do you think I need to add more weight for, you know, shoulder work? or should I just do the mobility? Do you have it, Doug? She said she sent in her workout. I don't see it up there. Let me take a look at it. Yeah, let's see what it looks like here.

Box squats, dumbbell press, dumbbell rose, stay two squats, reverse curls, reverse barbell. It's called crushers. It's fine. I would add mobility. I think a big party routine should be, yeah, should be mobility. And I would do 10 to 15 minutes of it

once or twice a day. every day. I mean, an easy, an easy thing for us is to let us send you MAPS performance and just do it two days of a week. So we have MAPS performance, two days a week. We also have mobility days in there. So if you were to do anything else, it would be those mobility days. So that's what I would be an easy one. So what would be an easy solution is we're going to send you MAPS performance.

It calls for three days of lifting and then two mobility days. Only due two of the lifting days. Two foundation days. The two foundational days. Okay. You're more than welcome to do the. If you're going to do more stuff, do more mobility stuff. So follow the mobility stuff.

Focus on your upper body. So shoulder, scapula stuff. So that's where you'd put your focus on the mobility. And follow that the way it's laid out. You'll get tremendous benefit from what you're looking for. I do want to address something you said just because you said it. Because if you're my client, this would be a longer conversation more than once, probably. You brought up aesthetics.

Okay. The way you are training, you're training more for long, health and strength, like, like, if you're trying to do braggia jizzu and you're trying to work out with your husband, and then you're also like, I want to do aesthetic, something's got to give. And I think you're in great shape. I think you would smoke 99% of anybody else your age at a lot of things. The amount of steps you take with hiking and activities and jihitsu, I think you're in great shape and are doing a hell of a job. especially if we take care of them shoulders.

So if that's really a desired outcome, that's... Now then if you said to me, Adam, I want to get this body fat percentage and look a certain way, then I'd say we would completely change the way we train to go after that goal. And we absolutely could do that, but that means we would modify jihitsu and modify the other activities to do that. In my opinion, not worth it. Totally not worth it. It's not a worthwhile trade. You won't be happy.

Okay. Well, I was going to say, could I do it? seasonally maybe. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. We could go through a phase where we go. Yeah, we absolutely could go through like a three-month phase where you're like, hey, let's make aesthetics a priority. And then we build a complete diet, workout routine, and movement schedule around changing your physique to a certain way. Could totally do that. This is also, and I don't know where you're at, this is where the value of like having a coach take you through this process is like, I, I, I would coach you through that, show you how to do that on certain seasons.

And then once we kind of gone through that, you get it. And then you can do it the rest of your life. You can decide, you know what? Every three months out of every year, I'm going to get in like the best physical shape I can get in. And that becomes my party. The other nine months of the year, I'm balancing my jihitsu, strength training and stuff like that and performance. And that's a very healthy, awesome way to schedule your year. As long as you're, yeah, comfortable pausing some of those other things and really like prioritizing focusing on it, you know,

for those three months. You would gain a lot of benefit from that. But I'm going to tell you this. Here's my opinion on this, Cyra. Yeah. You love jujitsu. You got your whole family involved. You're doing this workout with your husband.

You're winning. I don't think you're going to be happy going through seasons of trying to get cut and cutting the jujitsu down and doing more bodybuilding and all like that. I don't think it's going to be a worthwhile trade. I think you'll try it a couple times. It's not worth it. It really isn't. If you're fit, you're performing well, you look healthy,

like you're fine. Sure. You're totally fine. Yeah, I think your issue is going to be over training. Yeah. I think your issue is always like not doing too much. That's the only thing you got to worry about. Okay.

Well, I really appreciate you guys. You guys are awesome. I love all your stories. Thank you. And, yeah, I really appreciate it. No, I did buy your recent release. What was it called? Grade eight?

Grade eight. Yeah. Yes. You can do that. I did buy that recent release because I thought, well, that would be. Okay. You could totally do that.

The only difference is you're not doing, you're not doing two days a week of strength training. You're doing one lift a day. So your husband and you would just do one lift the day together. That'd be a great program though, too. Yeah, I can only work out. Yeah, okay. We can only work out twice a week together.

You could do this. You could take the eight exercises and you could put four on one day and four on the other. That's going to fry her. You think you don't? Yeah, yeah. Okay. All those compound lifts in one day after Jitsu. It might fry her.

Yeah, maybe. There's a fatigue component. Well, I try. I do try not to lift on the days that I do jit-sue. So, like, I'll make sure that I train, although I am fried, like, the next day. Yeah, I think what you're doing is totally fine. And just watch the volume on the strength training and enjoy it with your husband. You're good.

Your issue is going to be going too far. I think you know that. Yeah. Yep. I do. I know that. All right. You guys are awesome.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Sarah. So are you. Right. Thank you. Yeah, there's a fatigue component, right? So you take the grade A. Yeah, there's a lot. And you do all, like you do four compound lifts in one day with Jiu-Jitsu and I'll say it's going to fry you.

But like one a day. They're not accessible. I'm trying to, well, you could do it to where there's only about two compound. There's not, it's not eight compound lifts. You have a sit-up in there as one of the eight. You have a windmill in there as one of the eight. So it's really, so it would be two or three. But you're, I mean, you're right.

Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to. My strong feeling is when you're doing intense, any kind of intense athletic, you know, routine, jiu-jitsu or you know, soccer or you're playing water polo, that you could lift twice a week or you could do a little bit every day. And even if the volume was controlled all the same, I would bet my bottom ball. No, no, I'm not.

Obviously it's better, but she can't do that. She already, she said that right away. And I could, you could take, I could take the eight and you can modify it. But it would have to modify it. You have to totally modify. Yeah, yeah. But I'll tell you, I'll tell you people listening right now, it's like, if you love what you do and you're fit and healthy and you're doing a sport and you think, man, if I just lost 4% body fat, maybe I'll stop doing this thing I love for a little while to get the, it's not worth it. I guarantee you, you'll come out and you won't be happy.

She's a brown belt and jihitsu. She hikes 14,000 steps a day. She said she's 50. She looks like she's 30. She's a grandma. You're fine. She's kicking ass. You're fine, dude.

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, but that's why I wanted to bring up the aesthetic thing because she said it. And I'm like, yeah, of course. Yeah, we could totally radically change your entire life and focus it around looking a certain way if you really wanted to. But then it would impede on these things that you've already said that you love. It's like you're healthy. You're doing great. If you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram, Mind Pump Media.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our. Discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos,

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