Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2819: You'd Look Better With MORE Body Fat

Episode Date: March 21, 2026

Most people think getting leaner is always better… but that's not true. In this episode, the guys break down why staying ultra-lean year-round can actually make you look worse, feel worse, and hurt your long-term health. From unrealistic body fat expectations to the pressure created by social media and fitness culture, they explain why the "ideal physique" is often misunderstood—and what actually looks better in real life. If you've been chasing lower body fat thinking it's the answer… this might completely change your perspective.   The Spring Bundle: Symmetry ($187), Prime ($107), Advanced Training Techniques Guide ($47) all for $147 (over 50% off) mapsmarch.com   This Episode is brought to you by Butcher Box !  ⇨⇨go to butcherbox.com/mindpump No Code New users will receive their choice between free Chicken Breast for a year, shrimp for a year or ground beef for life!   This Episode is also brought to you by Manukora Honey ! ⇨⇨go to manukora.com/MINDPUMP Use code MINDPUMP and save up to 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts with the Starter Kit, Kit, which comes with an MGO 850+ Manuka Honey jar, 5 honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guidebook!   Eight Sleep exists to improve your sleep through cutting-edge technology - and the Pod 5 is the latest generation of their signature product.Pod 5 is the newest generation of their signature product, the Pod, a smart mattress cover that you place right on top of your existing mattress. It automatically regulates your body temperature throughout the night, independently for each side of the bed. The result? Up to one full hour of additional quality sleep per night.The best part is that you still get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it - but I am confident you will love it. Trust me, your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep. Use my code MINDPUMP at eightsleep.com/mindpump for up to $350 off the Pod 5 Ultra" eightsleep.com/mindpump Code: MINDPUMP   (00:00) Intro & Opening Banter (10:30) Happiness, Dopamine & Why Giving Feels Better (20:45) Materialism, Debt Culture & Chasing Status (30:15) Listener Coaching #1: Losing 135lbs & Burnout (45:30) Why You Need a "Recovery Season" After Transformation (01:00:00) Training Less to Gain More Energy (01:10:30) Rebuilding Your Relationship with Food & Body (01:20:30) Imposter Syndrome & Coaching While Still Growing (01:30:00) Listener Coaching #2: Balancing Cardio & Strength (01:40:30) Listener Coaching #3: Overtraining, Lifestyle & Longevity (01:50:30) Listener Coaching #4: Fat Gain, Hormones & Reverse Dieting (02:05:30) Final Takeaways & Outro

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, callers called in. We coach them, we helped them on air live. It's always a good time.

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A lot of you would look way better, fatter. Are we talking about people that are like bikini bodybuilders that like 5% body fat? Is that what you're going? That's obvious. I think that's obvious, right? They're just too lean. You can't be that lean all the time. It's unhealthy.

But I'm actually talking to fitness fanatics. Like dudes that feel like they need to walk around at 10% women that need to walk around at 19% all the time. I think, and I know, you know, you're surrounded by the fitness space. You're getting all this stuff advertised to you. But what's funny is that, I mean, if you're fit, you got muscle, you probably as a woman would look better around 23, 24% as a dude, 13, 14% body fat.

And it's funny because when they ask the opposite sex, this is what they typically point to. unless they're in that space, in which case we tend to worship this. Yeah, because it looks more healthy. Yeah. You're not struggling to get food in. Like it's, yeah, your body just sits at that nice percentage. And it just looks like you're thriving versus like, you know, you're starving yourself for a look.

I find this a really interesting conversation right now in particular with what I just kind of went through the last, you know, whatever it was, I think almost a month ago or so that I, I had tested my body fat. And I'm pretty good about, like, you know, look at someone or myself and guess. And judge your body fat. Yeah, judge my body fat percentage. It's not that often that, especially myself, who I've done that so many times, would I have guessed that far off that I was? And it was really like enlightening for me and reminded me of something that I feel like I've

talked to clients about many times. But it's always neat to see that. unveiled even to myself. And what that is, and what I realize is that it actually had less to do with my body fat percentage is that I have a good amount of lean body mass on me. Yeah. 180 pounds.

Some body fat on muscle looks great. Yeah. Yeah. And so why I like the direction you're going is that if you would have asked me even just a decade or so ago, what percentage body fat do I like my physique at? I'd say, oh, it's probably around 10. 10, maybe 12% body fat, you know, somewhere in that range.

And I think I'm the happiest there. I'm the most comfortable diet-wise. I like the way I look, all these things like that. So to have already, to actually, to have the reverse happen to me where I've been training for a while back in my rhythm, you know, hearing from my wife, like, oh, you look so great right now, like feeling good. I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I like how I feel right now. I'm going to probably lean out a little bit of that.

I like how I feel. And then I'm like, yeah, it might be a little bit higher than that 10 to 12 percent. and I'm probably more like 14, 15%. And there's always a part of me, too, that kind of lies to myself. It says that I think I'm 14, 15, but I really think I'm more like 13. So I'm like already setting myself up. And so to get the test back and to be as high as like 18, I went, what? Like, no way.

Because the last time I was at, that's the closest to the highest body fat percentage I've, I've ever tested. And I know how I looked and felt at 19, which is only 1% difference. So it's not a huge difference body fat percentage wise. but I obviously have a significant more amount of muscle at that 18%. Because when I was 18%, or 19%, I was 211 pounds. Oh, when you did your first. Oh, yeah. So this time I weigh 233 pounds.

20 more pounds of muscle or at least. So, but 1% body fat difference, but a significant difference in lean body mass. And looking at looking at myself going like, oh, wow, that's crazy. because if you would ask me. And so it really, and it highlights to me what I've communicated, I feel like, to a lot of my female clients in the past

that get hung up on like what you were saying, this number of like, oh, I think I want to be like 19%. Like I know what I've looked like at 21 or 22%. I want to be a little bit leaner than that. And it's like, you know,

that's a better goal than I'd say a scale goal. Like someone who says like, I want a way, because that's a horrible goal. That's right. Right. But even the more I realized with myself, like even a body fat percentage isn't ultimately that great of a gauge too because how different

a 12% version of me and an 18% version of me can actually look based off of lean body mass. Totally. And here's what, so we'll talk just physiologically and even we'll talk about athletic performance here, but physiologically speaking. So here's the context. You have two, you have the same person, both fit, both strong, both, you know, good fitness, good, you know, VO2 max, strength, mobility, that kind of stuff, right? We'll talk about a guy.

Over here, he's 10%, over here he's 15%. First off, the 15% version is going to have better athletic performance. And we know this by the data. Better stamina. Better strength, better stamina, better resilience. This is a big one. Like, if you get sick or you get injured, he's going to be more resilient at 15% body fat. So that's number one.

Number two, his hormone health is better. It's more likely to be better around 15% than at 10%. A natural guy, and there's always exceptions to the rules. We'll stop pointing to the pro athletes that are genetic freaks, okay? I'm talking about most people, like 99% of people listening right now. Most natural dudes go from 15 to 10%, they sacrifice testosterone. They sacrifice hormone health. They sacrifice immune health.

And they do sacrifice athletic performance as well. There's that part. Then there's this part. When women are asked, majority of them, when they're looking at a dude who's fit, they kind of prefer the guy that's like 13 to 15% over the 10%. Why do they prefer that? Because we tend to look for signs of health and fertility. Now, I'll speak to women.

Again, it's subconscious. It is. I'll speak to women. Both fit. Both working out. Both, okay, doing well. 19%, 24%. The 24% woman, and this is even more true for women than for men, because their bodies

are more sensitive to this than men are, her, the 24, 25% woman who's fit, healthy muscle, the whole deal, she's going to have a better hormone profile. She's going to be more fertile, more regular periods, less, you know, PMS symptoms. So hormone health is better. Strings. Much better resilience, better athletic performance.

And most dudes would say she looks better. She's got the curve. She's got the, and she looks good. And so what's happened is we've got this distortion because the people who are communicating health aren't really communicating health on social media. What they're communicating is a body obsession. And so they tend to present this extreme.

Now, let's talk about general health, like overall health. For most guys, including the guys in this room who know what we're doing, if you're going to walk around at 10% body fat, you place a higher focus on your diet. Dare I say a slightly unhealthy, in many cases, a very unhealthy focus on your diet. You don't have a lot of flexibility. You're really paying attention to,

what you eat so you can maintain this 10%. 15% you generally eat healthy, but you enjoy the occasional going out. You're not that dude that goes out that's like, no, sorry, I can't have, you know, this. I got to eat this particular way. Same thing for women. So mental health in terms of body obsession and stress around diet is much better.

And I just want to communicate this because, now there are a lot of people that are listening who are just getting into exercise, just getting into watching what they're eating. And so, you know, they're kind of aiming for this, what we're talking about. But there's also a significant percentage of our audience that are fitness fanatics who, you know, women who think they got to get to 19% guys need to get 10% and they think they're going to have the dramatic improvement in health or happiness when the truth is the opposite.

You're actually going to sacrifice a lot of things for a look and you're not going to get much in return except for a body fat percentage that you're seeing on a scale. I want to add to that and poke holes a little bit in that study. and not to debate you, but to add to an even greater point to this argument, because those studies that, like, take general people who generally keep themselves of that body fat percentage,

the argument you're making is that most opposite sex likes the opposite sex a little bit higher body fat percentage. Right, right. And even that is generally speaking, because if you were to take, like, using myself as an example again, what I look like right now at 18%, I can show my wife or,

general population, a 15% version or a 14% version of me. And I bet you if I put them next to each other and you said, what are you more attracted to or what do you think looks better? More people would say what I look like right now at 18% than what I have before. Even then. So even that doesn't tell the full story. It's like in the case that I'm trying to make is the importance of building muscle. Yeah, the muscle part.

And and. Because that's the healthy. Yes. And the little bit of a higher body fat percentage. and a lot of the research and the studies that we have, oh, this is kind of optimal or ideal or healthy, again, is taking a general population. I think there's a lot of people that could build 10, 20, 30 more pounds of muscle on them

and their body fat percentage stay the same. Which means they added body fat by the right, right, right. Which means they added more fat to their body, but they added 10, 15 pounds of muscle and look better, feel better, more, the opposite sex be attracted to. All the things, and not all those things are necessarily, the most important, but it's like on all markers and cases improved. We'll use the example of our trainer, Corinne.

And I love using her as example because she's perfect for this. She's on our staff. She's an amazing coach. And she took the big step of letting someone else totally take over her training and diet, which was Adam. She was, she came to you. What was she sitting at? What was she walking around at?

18? 17. 17 for somebody all the time. Very lean, okay? Not a good lean. Or I should I say it's too lean to walk around it, but this is what she was at. She comes to Adam.

He reverse diets her. She gets her calories from where to where. We were at, she was at 1,900 to 2,000 calories. We're at 26 to 2700. So look at almost 1,000 calories for a diet. Dramatically reduced her training volume. She's not exercising as much. She, her strength went through the roof where she's hitting PRs.

Weekly. Almost weekly. Yeah, yeah. Like big PRs, almost weekly. Squats, deadlifts, hip thrust, all the big movements. Energy is better. Every single person. on staff is like, man, she looks amazing.

She looks great. Went and got a DeXA scan. Gained only body fat. Her body fat percentage went from 17% to what? Yeah, 19. Still lean. Yeah. But she gained 2% body fat.

Gained some weight on the scale. Gained no muscle on the Dexas. But she's stronger, feels better, more energy, and looks better. Yeah. So that's an extreme example, but better because she gained body fat. Yes. And her fitness improved. So she didn't compromise her fitness.

Yeah. Her fitness actually got better as a, And that's an extreme example, but we need to communicate this because... Yeah, nobody's talking about that. So many of our listeners are... We have so many female listeners who are fit and they're working out and they're good and they're consistent. Like, hey, I'm at, you know, 25% body fat. I want to get down to 20.

What should I do? And it's like, I can tell you what you can do. But the truth is, like, you're better off staying where you're at and just keep improving your fitness and eating with some flexibility. Right. And we get guys like that too. I'm at 15%. I want a six-pack. Like, bro, you get a six-pack?

You think you're going to feel so much happier, you're not. Well, it's not a performance advantage, you know, like to be really lean. No. It's just like, you know, whatever is healthy and what that is for your body and what that consists of. And we have general ranges where we try to shoot, you know, where it's like, this is healthy, you know. And I feel like, you know, I'm adequate energy-wise to have that little bit of a buffer. But, I mean, it kind of varies. But at the same time, if that's where you start, you perform the best when you're in that health zone.

That's right. And you stray out of that, you know, above below. To chase a look. And then it's, you know, you're compromising that. You know, it's funny too about you. I mean, Justin always is going to add his performance point. You're always going to go the health direction. I always love driving home the look, though, because that's what most people are going after.

That's what they're here for. Right. Like, I mean, what you guys are saying is so important. It's all true. But the truth is so many people are chasing a look. And I think that's what I want to convey so much is like, you, you, you, you, you, you, at a higher body fat percentage, you know, to the point of how you open this, like, you would look better, fatter if you just add a muscle too.

And a lot of times you can't do that when you're always trying to be at this low percent body fat. We had a caller just recently. And it's just like, you know, and she wants this like 20 to 22 percent, which is a total fine percent to desire for a female. You can be healthy in that range. But I'm like, looking at her going like, you know, I bet if you stay the same body fat percentage, which she was around 25 or 26 and just added five to 10 pounds of muscle,

you would get the 22, 20 to 22% look. The look that you think you want. Yeah, the look that you think you want. It has less to do with the percentage. It's that you're thinking about where you're at right now. Oh, I'm a little fluffy. If I were to lean some of that fat off, then I had this look.

Well, I will argue you just gain some muscle to that same. In fact, some fat could come with it too, by the way. You added 10 pounds on the scale and eight muscle and two fat, you would look better. You would look the look that you think needs to be at 20, 22%. You know what's funny to you about this, by the way? you know, when you're a guy, you're walking around at 10% body fat, your face doesn't look as good as when you're at 14% body fat.

This is especially true. I want to piss people off for women. You get down to the teens, your face does not look as good as when you're in the low to mid-20s. Body fat on your face, you've got to have some. And especially as you get older, especially as you get older, where you start to look like you're more age. They're calling this old Zempic face.

You know what's happening with that? People are just losing everything. Yeah. And they look old because, why? Well, because you need some body fat. And some body fat is on your face. And it actually makes you look more youthful and healthier. And again, a lot of the messaging that we're getting are from people who their hormones

are artificially propped up. So they could diet. They can do all extreme stuff. Get their body fat lean and they're going to be great. The average person chases this number, you're going to feel like garbage. Your libido is going to be down. You're overstressed with your workouts. You're over-focused on your diet.

And to Adam's what, you don't look as good. You might, you're a little bit of a distorted view on yourself, not realizing you just don't look as it. And what's crazy about this because I know I've done this before is you'll have friends. These people listening have had this happen, I guarantee it, where they're getting really lean. And then their friends and family come up and like, you don't look good. Yeah. But all they hear in their head is, yeah, that's because I'm shredded. Yeah.

It was that drift that you talk about. Yeah. It really does happen. And that's the thing. The irony of it, everybody wants to. to look youthful, right? You look older. You know, when you're too lean, you just look older.

Your skin doesn't look as vibrant and healthy. There's a saying, you know, there's an old, there's a saying in, I think it's in the fashion world in Italy. So, and it's not a great saying, but they say this to their models. They say, face or ass. And what they mean by that is you pick. Either you have a round butt. You have a round, you have, either you can have, you know, you're going to sacrifice one

of the other. So you get too lean, you're going to sacrifice your face or whatever. So it's like, choose one of the other. Oh, that's funny. So if you have the butt, you have the, I don't know. Anyway, it's the saying that they say because they refer to getting too lean how it affects how you start to look or whatever in your face. And you do, you look older. But this message needs to get out because if you go through Instagram and you go on fitness.

Yeah. Even if you go on wellness, which the term wellness has been so bastardized now, wellness is just fitness, but now it's packaged a little different. What I mean by that is all the wellness people now, they're still display. playing this like overly lean body focus or whatever it just now looks like you know who also is such a great example on our team i love to i've actually i got to sit down with her and talk to her about her whole journey and her calories and stuff like that but i've seen her before and afters and that's danny oh yeah like the her her her physique that she's built oh yeah she's built a total different physique than what's so strong she's so strong so strong yes and i like to ask her

I like to ask her what she can eat calorie-wise today versus what she- Did she come from a place where she was like super-restricting? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and just, just looks like a whole different person. Like totally different person. She's so much more muscle on her body. And I, like, when I talked to when we were getting ready to do, Corinne, I asked her if she wanted to join that.

She's like, oh, not right now. I'm eating and doing this and that. And like, the fact that she can, she can eat what she wants and have that kind of flexibility and still have a physique that's like that. You know, and I think so many people, women in particular, I feel like, where my female clients get hung up on this, this look that they remember having or seeing when they were at their leanest. And, you know, some of them might have had their body fat percentage. And so they're, either it's the scale or this body fat percentage. And, you know, I guess the point I'm trying to make is we always talk about like body fat percentage kind of being this gold standard.

It's better than weight. Yeah, it's better. But it's still, it's still, it still can be very distorted, especially. doesn't tell the whole story. Especially for women, because muscle hasn't been promoted so much for women as it has been men for a really long time. So this is,

this goes both ways. And they're also advertised from an, you know, image perspective or much heavier. It's the fashion industry is really, yeah. It's a fashion, the fitness,

the health, the wellness. Like everything geared towards women is, is so focused on how you look. Yeah. And it's coming from these really body dysmorphic people. Unfortunately, they're the ones that tend to get the voices in our space.

You know, the best things you could do, really, one of the best things you could do, this is both men and women, but especially women, is change your algorithm on your social media, like consciously change it. When you're going through and you're seeing bodies projected to you, pictures of bodies and how they look and they're, you know, check, click on the whatever is the three dots and say, I want to see less of this. And you have to do this every day because the algorithm is so smart that'll revert back very quickly. So every day, just say less of this. I want less of this in my brain. Less of this in my brain. And you would be

surprised at how positively you impact your heart. By the way, I know you actively do that. I actively like the things that I want. Like I actually, I go like every, it's like an exercise I do now where I will look at my explorer page to see if it's in my goal, literally my goal is always it to be like all the things that I want. That you actually want. Yeah, yeah, that I want to be consuming that I'm into or whatever that I think is, you know, give, healthier or better, right, for whatever reason. You, you actually go in, click on it and then say, show me less of this. Yes.

Where do you see? Where is that? So when you're scrolling, when something comes up, you can click on. The picture? I think there's like the little dots. Yeah, the little dots. And you can say less of this or don't show me this. And so it's like literally on the, like in my feed I have like I'm on Instagram right now.

Okay, here's perfect. I've done that on Facebook. I haven't done that. Instagram. Why you're seeing this post, request community note. Yeah. So I've done it on X a lot because that's the one that I'll be on. And that one, bro, their algorithms fast on X. Oh my God. That's so quick, dude. You look at one thing and then you get five more. I have a hard time with X just because it's so raw sometimes.

Dude. I forget that you're mostly on X right now. I'm trying to figure out how to do it. There's a way to do it on all of all. It's a good thing right now. I'm going through my thing right now. I've yet to see something. I don't. Okay. You could also do it with ads, by the way. Oh, yeah, I do that all the time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Not interested. Okay. Here's why this is so... Don't suggest these posts anymore. Don't suggest posts with certain words. Snooze all suggest posts and... Okay. That's right.

Now, the reason why it's so important to do this consciously... This post made me feel uncomfortable. Yeah, so... And you know what? That's the strongest one. I feel seen. I think that's the strongest signal is that one right there. Yeah.

Yeah. Because I've done that. It's stronger. Because you have to like repeatedly say, don't show me this. Don't show me this. So the algorithms are so sensitive that it picks up micro fractions of a second longer that you hover. Oh, it tracks your eyes. Yeah.

Yeah. So if you're like scrolling through. Oh, no. That's, so I know. And you pause for slightly longer. So your point, this is why I have to check back on my Explorer page is because I only like these, the things that I want. Fed me. But even if I get caught looking at something for a minute, even if I don't like it, it'll

still start to, it'll start to still change my explore page and feed it back to me again. Yeah. So that's why I was asking you why, like how you do, because the way I do it is like I get good at just really liking all the stuff that I want. But you also have to say don't. Yeah. Because if you don't, it knows that you pause for a second. It's bad.

It'll feed again to you. It's a self-adjusting in the moment on the fly. It's kind of brilliant. Like, uh, it's from their point, you know? It's brilliant. And it's, and it's, and you, that means you have to conscious, bro, you have to con, I'll give you guys an example. They hack your impulsive nature.

I told the story. I told the story already, but I saw it. So my wife will be, it's okay with it, but I'll tell it again. So there was, there was a period. We're going somewhere. And I was like, oh, maybe I should get some like, it's like sexy lingerie for my wife. Right. So I went and looked up like, you know.

I've told you about this. And so as soon as I did that. Bro, some of those emails. So hold on. So as soon as I did that, when I would go on social media, you know the little ads that post underneath? Little ads would post for lingerie. But they're like, bro, it's like, yeah, yeah.

It's like a half naked chick, like, right? And I don't want to see that. because soft porn for sure I just don't want to see that I've had issues with like you know looking at stuff in the past and so I just consciously now look away and so I had to go don't show me this this is offensive I had to do like four times yeah yeah before it stopped like I kept getting ads and I have to keep doing that I've bought a lot of like I don't like I don't get away so I can't get away like there's probably at least six different brands that I've bought from and so they all they've all got me you know what I'm saying they find me

Dude, wherever I'm at. Oh, dude, try to unsubscribe from those emails, and then you get one of those emails, like, wow. Do you and do this? But I tell you what, just for people listening, like, if you, you have to consciously do this every day, but change your algorithm because it shifts how you view the world, but more importantly, how you view yourself.

Are you guys noticing with your teens, any new, like, new, like, behaviorals around it, like them organically, not what you're restricting or telling? Do you think that you're seeing, an increase in their, like, addiction to it? Or are they naturally certain? Because one of the things that we predicted... Oh, like, generally?

Yeah, that, like, this generation coming up is becoming... It's more common that they're like... I put really strong restrictions on my daughter. So she only gets 10 minutes of Instagram. She has no TikTok. Do you find you guys... So where I guess I'm getting at with you guys, because you guys have both have teens that were, like,

a part of the height of this stuff. is it always a battle? Is it something that's getting easier? Is it getting harder? Like what's it like managing it for the, for the kids? It's getting a lot easier. It's getting easier. He's a lot more mature with it than he was.

It was a battle, dude, for a while. Yeah. I didn't want to give him a phone at all. You know, and that was like really hard for me to reconcile. That was a mistake I made was I gave my, my daughter has a phone. Yeah. Like my younger kids, they're not getting one. They're not getting one until it's absolutely necessary, which I don't know.

What were the two age? How early did you do your daughter? How early did you do your boys? So let's see. My daughter, eighth grade? Eighth grade? I think it was eighth grade. Yeah, Ethan was 13.

It might have been eighth. Is that when you're 13? He was seven. Seven, three. I think, yeah, in the seventh grade. It might have been seventh grade for me, too, because I think it was right on the same age. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. So, I mean, yeah, there's a thing. Ideally, in the ideal situation, you know, if you can, you know, wait, that would be. You know, well, I get what, well, I get what. . Well, I get what. I mean, it's real easy sitting from my seat, right, to say, but I understand, and I can only imagine how difficult it was for the two of you at the timing of it is that because I already see with my son's age parents that like, like his best friend and we're really close to them. Like they, they restrict tech from his kid or their kid.

Their kid doesn't get an iPad like ours. And so it makes it easy when the best friend doesn't too. I was just going to say that's the easier way to do it if you have... Cultivate the friends. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what Katrina and I have talked about and plan to do.

And it seems, and I don't want to say it's easy, but it's probably easier for me than it was for you guys when nobody was really paying attention. When everybody thought it was everyone, I mean, your guys' generation, meaning your guys' kids' generation, you were probably told if they don't learn tech, they're going to be behind. If they don't learn to use the computer.

You were the outliers, but wait. for sure. Yeah. He had to wait. Right. You know, a couple years to catch up to his friend's text messages.

You know what helps too a lot. And I'm sure Justin could speak to this. When they're busy doing things like sports and stuff. That's why. When they have nothing to do. I preach that from, you know, the mountains, dude.

I'd have to keep them busy. You know, honestly, idle hands, the devil's work. For real, whoever, like, said that,

like, that is such truth. Yeah, said a long time ago, too. That's what's crazy. Who said that? Find out, dude. It's got to be some, like, philosophy.

And I mean, I, because even with my oldest, it's like, you know, he'll do a good job with tech. But then, you know, he's roaming around town and all these things. And it's like he's getting bored. And it's like they find their way into mischief. Just like, you know, and it's like now I'm battling that. And it's like, it's just one of those things. But you prefer that. Okay.

So it's funny you say that because my buddy Mike, his kid's similar age, right? and we talked a lot about this for the last couple years and everything and he's really active dad. He's into cars, always trying to get his boy to come to do with the car, and his kid's not really into it. You'd rather stay at home on the computer or on the games and stuff like that. And he recently has got into those electric dirt bike.

Yes. And he's like, hardcore to it, but he's like, he rolls around with a group of kids that are like getting in trouble. And they don't just go. The cops have busted them because they're, like, they go, yeah, they go past where they're supposed to.

Way farther than we ever. did when we were kids. And so he's so... Because they're electric. Yes. And they go like 50 miles an hour, bro. Yeah. And so he's like so conflating because he's like, I, for the last five years I've been fighting to get him out of the house. Now he's out of the house, but then he's getting to mischief and I'm like,

you know, I think I'd rather have that. I'd rather have him learn the consequences of the cop getting you in trouble for riding that bike where you're not supposed to and then the sitting plugged into a game all day. Can we just say like straight up? There's always something. Raising raising kids, especially teenagers, it's hard.

It is. It's hard, dude. It's anxiety riddled. They want the independence of an adult, but they have the mind of a child. And so, and they're rebellious by nature. I got this. You don't even know what you're doing. Yeah, dude.

How do you got this? You actually know nothing. You really don't even know nothing. I love to argue with teenagers. I mean, it's crazy how early that is, how ingrained that is in? Because my son said that to my wife last night. What do you say? Mom, I got this.

You know, it was over something, you know, whatever. But it's like the fact that they're, they already start doing that. It's like independent mind coming through. You know what I'm saying? Like, I got this, mom. It's so hard too because when you want, you want to tell them like, no, no, this is, this is how it works. Yeah, they know, like half the time telling them is like, makes them harden even more.

Yeah. And you got to let them work through it too. So it's like, I've had to really check myself a lot of times with that. Because I will be like, you know, try and squash his energy with that. Like, well, you don't know what you're doing. I'm like, let them figure it out. Let them work through it. Let them stumble.

My favorite is, you have every one of your kids try to like, tell you, like, figure out how much it would cost to, like, live on their own. They have no idea. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You, you, you would have been able to pay rent in a room, bro. I know.

You know, that's why I really liked, uh, what book was that that I read? I wish, uh, I've, I've recommended it on the, on the podcast before, but it talked about the, the four stages. of raising the kids. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta read that one. You have the coaching. And you guys, and that's, you guys are coaching phase. And really, when you think about it, that's good coach. It's like, you tell them the game changer for me.

Yes. You know that? Yeah. When my daughter, it's been a game changer. You're like a coach. You're not daddy mode anymore. You're not telling them what to do all the time. It's like, hey, you do this, this and this will happen.

You play that you show the play. Here's a potential consequence. That's right. You show the play. I'm going to let you figure it out. Yeah. And, you know, we're going to, you encourage why they should run the play this way. And then when they veer off and do their own thing and they get tackled behind the line or they get hurt or the thing happens, it's like, that's why dad told you this is the play.

It's been such a game changer for me and my daughter. Because I actually had to verbalize it to her like, listen, we're moving a new phase. It's the coaching phase. And there was a period there where it was like, is this actually working? But then I'd sit down with her. I said, look, I'm not going to tell you you have to do this. Remember, we're in the coaching phase, but you need to hear me because if I feel like you're not hearing me. And if you feel like you're just shutting me down, then we're going to go backwards.

and we're going to go to the other phase where I force you. Yeah. And it's actually, it's actually improved our relationship. I think it's a great idea to communicate even to the kid, like letting them know that. I think that's a great, I didn't know you did that. I think that's a great idea is to be like, hey, we're, I recognize that we're transitioning from me being daddy, tell you what to do all the time to you want to learn things, do things on your own.

And I can appreciate that. Love that. The language is more like, might I make a suggestion? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like my new verdict. Yeah, yeah. Or let me tell you how they played out for dad. I definitely gave him a lot bigger area that he can venture out and have adventures and do his thing.

But it's at home we're just like, uh, I mean, and we're also, that's because you track your kids. You're also talking. You also track your kids. Nobody knew where we were going. I know. I know. I don't. My wife does. And then I find out. I'm like, oh, what's doing way over there? Yeah. That's the part that trips me out is like how much we, because he, my buddy, Mike's, they have air tag on his kid, too. And so it's like, so they can see when he's going beyond where he was told to. that so it's like this now you're challenged with this like do i say something do i say something he's not you know it only affects me because like then it gets dark and like i have to go pick up on my truck because you get to take the bike and put it the truck and his friend and you know it becomes like i'm

like look you brought me into this the whole idea is for you to have that freedom and independence you come back you do the right thing and you get to do it again now you know we're not going to have that much freedom and you have to earn it back yeah yeah i think about some of the stuff I did when I was a teenager, like when we would ride off. Now, we'd have electric bikes, but we had a regular bike, but we would take off and we would do things, man. I look back. You know, how do you guys both make peace too? How do you guys both make peace with this also? Because you also know that, so imagine you have the kid who's the opposite, who listens to everything, doesn't go beyond it. Because I think about this from my perspective, because my kid seems

to be different with a lot of the stuff. And my fear is I also know that those traits that you guys both have and you see in your kids are also the things that made you great entrepreneurs and successful at life because you are willing to stretch the boundaries to think outside the box to not just fall in line with what the other people say like there's some characteristics that come with that. More than that, Adam, when you look at the data on it, because that's, that could definitely happen. But you know what the data shows more often than not is that they're going to go through

a rebellious phase. And so if they don't do it as teenagers, then they do it in college. Yes. Or, or I'd rather it be now. Or I have a lot of friends like this. I have friends like this who are doctors. Okay. So they were very regimented, very disciplined, college.

Then they wow out when they get the- And then when they finally are done with medical school off the rails. Now I'm going to go through my rib-belly. I mean, that's a recipe for Peter Pan syndrome, right? I mean, that's like how that ends up happening to a lot of probably Yeah. Now how to that, so we're doing the perspective from the husband, right? I imagine this is even more difficult for the wives.

To let go and let, like, A lot of the risky stuff, especially, too. And, like, it's funny because, like, I love it because he's back into climbing on things. And, you know, like, he'll go on these bridges and things that are super sketchy. And I'm like, you know, like, and Courtney will find out about it. But, you know, I'm just glad that he's adventuring and, like, being in the world and doing these things. So I'm like, you know, I'm okay with some of these risks he's taking. You know that it's dangerous.

You can get hurt and this and that. but I would prefer that. That's an example of where you can be more laxed and she's probably more freaked out. Where's the flip of that? Where is she more relaxed and you're a little more? And she's like, hey, dude, calm down. You'll be okay.

Like, is there an example that or she almost always that way and you're almost always the one who's more like that? And same thing for you. So like, is there a push and pull for you guys where there are certain things she's more laxed about and you're more like over and she's like, hey, chill out. Let him figure it out.

or is it all things? Because obviously the rest thing. I'm trying to think of an example. I'll guess. I'll guess. I bet it's probably when you show a lot of anger. Then she needs to calm me down. I'll bet that's probably when it kicks in. Oh, when I'm angry with him?

Yeah. When you start to lose it, she's probably like, well, okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She calms me down with when it's like, I use that as something to like capture attention and like snap out of like his state.

Like, so I don't, I don't raise my. my voice unless it's like very intentional. But yeah, I do do that sometimes. It freaks her out. It scares her, you know, sometimes because I'll let that out just to let everybody know I got teeth. You know, it's like, you know, there's constant. There's value to that, though, too.

I think a great way to communicate that is to when you do it intentional and you're detached from the emotion, it's a very powerful tool. Right. When you do it in a response emotionally is when it's bad, right? Yeah. So that's remove the reaction of it. Right, right. But that's hard.

Oh, of course. That's a discipline. Yeah, no, that's a, it's a, yeah, no, that's a very difficult. I think that, I was trying to think of, like, an example with, like, girls in a relationship and all that. And I'm more like, you know, don't even worry about all that. Like, you know, that'll come down the road. And, like, I'm not trying to, like, make it happen where he's going to hang out and

go on a date or, like, you know, and she's all like, yeah. How's, how's it going with so and so? And, you know, like, she gets all into the relationship side of it. And I'm just like, dude, stop asking him about that. you know. He'll figure it out. This is a distraction. You don't need this right now, son.

Yeah. That's like my energy. I think you're right. Yeah. You're the right one, dude. That's a total distraction when you're a kid. Oh, totally. Yeah.

I mean, but she loves the idea of him, you know, have a relationship with a girl. And I appreciate that because she softens it up. Until the girl does something mean to him. I'm sure then mama bear is going to come. Now, are you the opposite of your house? Because, so my sister-in-law and brother-in-law are the opposite here. My sister-in-law,

is the one who lets the kids climb the trees, fall, bruise themselves, whatever. And my brother-in-law is more like boundaries overprotective that way. You seem like that to me. It depends. I mean, it really does depend on the situation, I would say. We have a different dynamic with the little ones

than we do with my daughter because my daughter's with us every other week. Plus she has her mom. Yeah. Who's also involved. So Jessica has a parental, definitely a parental role with my daughter. But she's also got this, which I think, think it's an advantage is she kind of gets to be the cool stepmom, you know, where she can kind of

step in and have those conversations. Right. She almost fell naturally into the coaching phase versus you had to transition from being daddy, daddy everything. And then also just to be, you know, being divorced, having her half the time. Like that causes its own challenges. Like, you know, you want to discipline, but I see you. I didn't see you last week. And so how you're here a windows. Yeah. And like, what do we do? Well, how often does that happen where, and what's more like, where, because you, have that since that's an interesting dynamic for me to ask about is that you know you're wanting your daughter to explore something or you're wanting her to fall on her own or allow it and then your ex is like no like how often does that happen where oh you don't know you guys don't agree

with like like either restricting restricting something or boundaries or like oh i got to be careful what i say here because i don't want to put too much out there but i would say like right now we're looking at colleges, even though she's not, you know, she's not going to be going for a couple years, but I'm much more interested in the culture of the college than I am, how cool it is or how nice it is, or even what she thinks she wants. I'm interested more in the culture because I think it's super influential on a kid. Whereas, you know, my ex-wife is more like... Where she want to go. Yeah, where she want to go. And this is a great college. Maybe that's the one she wanted to go to that she didn't go to. Maybe.

there's a piece of that. So there's some disagreement. Oh, that's an interesting one, bro. I feel like you lose that no matter what. No. No, because I pay. Yeah. Boom.

That's a great response. My first initial was like, oh, bro, you definitely, you lose that. Well, actually, I write the bucket check. I don't want to pull it, but if I have to. Cool, she could go to that. She can go to that one. If you pay for it. I don't care.

She can go to that one? Oh, my God. What a good point. Oh, my God. I was like, you think you're going to win that one, bro? You're losing that one for sure. I write the check. Yeah.

Ultimately, that's a trip card. I'll weigh all that out. You know, don't get me wrong. It's a little while from now, so maybe things will change. That's funny. Yeah. We're going to go look at some, in fact, in a month. I won't say where they are because it's just out of privacy.

But we'll be looking at them. It is the time, though, because, yeah, my oldest is the same age. and he's interested in looking at colleges right now. Yeah, but you know, there's a culture on campuses and different colleges have different cultures. Well, that's cool in general. Totally. Yeah, that's cool in general.

But I heard this argument. I was talking to friends about this, and I heard this argument like, oh, there's bad cult kids and good kids in every college. Yeah, no, that's true. Okay, I get it. You can go to the best culture, but still running to the wrong crowd.

But the odds are better. Like, let's not forget, like the odds are better. I think as a dad, I'd rest what I'd have a hard time with. is if my daughter or son is wanting to go to school or like their three best friends or two or three best friends are going and they want to go to that school, even though it may not be my favorite school for them to go to,

but it's where their best friends are going that they went to high school with and grew up with. That makes a difference. Because that would make a hard, versus she's going off to somewhere where she's starting all over no matter what and she really wants to go to this place. And I'm like, I don't know about Chico State

or Arizona State or whatever the state is. I think either you go this direction. Harder case that's good for them, though. You know? That's also that. I think, because I mean, for me, it was transformative. It was like, I think we don't have that right of passage anymore. And I think if we can look at college as like maybe an extension of that, it's like,

you got to go off and reinvent yourself. There's so much potential value in that. I mean, does that all? You can totally reinvent. I also think that has a lot to do with probably you both evaluating their friends currently, too, though. Of course. Like, you don't want you to. Like, oh, yeah.

I mean, I mean. But I think they'll still reconnect. Like, you know, I don't know. It depends. Of course. My best friend and I go all the way back to fourth grade. So, and my other one all the way back to ninth grade. So, of course, you can.

I'm definitely somebody who believes that we can, and I win different states, all the things, right? But I think that if I liked my son's, you know, core group of buddies and they're like, hey, we're all going to Santa Barbara. Yeah. You know, college after high school. And he really wants to. Yeah. I would have a really hard time. And let's say it's not my favorite.

You know, there's another piece here that. we're not even talking about, which I've never, I kind of had this opinion before, but now even more so, especially in two years or four years, is it necessary? Oh, yeah, no, I definitely think it's, is it necessary to go to college? Yeah, this is what I fight with Courtney. Oh, yeah, because the R.I, in a lot of cases, is not worth it. Like, there are a lot of situations, the degree you get is not worth the cost that you spent. You would have been better off, maybe not going. And there's a lot of things now you can go learn in college that I'm looking at AI and I'm like, bro, by the time you graduate, it'll be interesting. They better shift.

Yeah, their options. Totally. Well, that's how I was going to say, Justin, it's going to be interesting how you tackle that work. It's a weird time. Especially when they, if your kid tells you that they want to go do and study. Yeah. Right. Right.

Because they give you some. That matters big time. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that totally matters. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So get them in a mentorship, internship somewhere.

Totally. It's a direct placement. you know, for something that they want to do. I think it's such a better path. I've been talking to my daughter about like businesses that require people. So like, do you like, because she kind of wants to work with people.

So I'm like, okay, those, those, there's certain careers that will probably always need that like occupational therapy, physical therapy, maybe even, you know, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy where you're working with a person. And I'm sure regulations will prevent AI from doing that kind of stuff.

Like that, that I could see that potential. But like, bro, it's just, just six years ago, going to school for coding was like, this is the best thing you could do. Now they're like, don't do that. Irrelevant. Did you know that they're,

I'm watching interviews. I've seen a couple interviews or clips of people in tech who run these big companies. And they're like, oh, our coders haven't written a single line of code since December. What? I imagine, all AI.

I imagine one of the most popular degrees in the next two to four years is going to be AI degrees. Degrees in, like the ability to program, run, By the time they graduate, that's going to be irrelevant. That's what I'm trying to say, dude, it's changing so quick. I mean, maybe, but if those four years?

Yeah, but the ones that studied it are going to be on the front line of knowing how that's going to impact. Either that or if you love it, why don't you go learn it? Yeah, but then the CEO is just be able to do everything. Yeah, why don't you just go learn it, go learn it on your own right now? Because whenever they come out with another version, which is like, you know, however a months later, six months later. That's easy for 40-something-year-old us to say, like, tell that to a 17-year-old. Yeah. Yeah, go teach yourself this.

Like, yeah, good luck. Well, I mean, if they're into it. That's part of, that's part of the big benefit, too, is like, I mean, I remember when I was, when I was 17, like, I didn't know for sure what I had ideas. I mean, I went through, I'm going to be an architect. I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be a physical therapist. Like, I went through a lot of different things I was going to be or what I wasn't sure. I almost went almost enlisted.

So it's like, you know, part of the, part of the, the good part of the college, I'd say still is that ability to, to still try different classes, meet different people with different opinions and views and maybe backgrounds with different dads and moms that have jobs. It's like, and just being exposed to other things that maybe you and your little bubble would have never thought you would do. God,

I wonder if the future of being enlisted is, they're going to look at your resume and you're going to be like, oh, how good are you going to say, yes, yes, oh, a hundred percent.

Dude, it's going to be like, it's going to be like, oh, you're level 56 in call of duty? Yeah, you're in. You're in,

dude. Yeah, That's going to be so wild. Weird to think about. All right. Let's change, let's change directions here real quick because I was looking up the, the toxins that they find in farmed fish versus wildcough. Oh, wow.

It's pretty bad. It's so bad that they change, the fish changes sex in there? Sometimes. Yes. Sometimes. So like higher in heavy metals, pesticides. You can't really win, though, right? Say what?

You can't really win because even the ocean, like, D.E. sea fish now. They have to find better ways to farm fish, I think. And you're right. Like, that's the one place we get meat in the wild. Like, we don't do that anymore anywhere else. We don't will hunt cows. Do you, Doug, can you pull up a screen shot to you? Because, uh, I know that they do this with farm fish. You know, they dye the, the fish. So it will look like it's, wow. Yeah. Like how, like, how, like, how different does it look if they didn't die? What's crazy to me is there's a dramatic difference in the taste of just farmed salmon versus There's wild salmon.

Yeah. If you put them next to it and I ate each one and I didn't know any better, I'd be like, this is different fish. And it's like the fat content. It's the fat content, the fat amount, the fatty acid profile. Yeah, the profile. It's all so different, you know? That's crazy.

That's not saying it's unhealthy, but it's definitely better to go far. Farmed salmon or not injected with that. They are fed pigments. That's what it is. They're fed pigments. Interesting. But while some, often synthetic pigments are added to feed. Same difference.

Yeah. give them red number 40. Well, I mean, one of the unknown things that butcher box does, because we talk all about grass-fed meat all time, their heritage pork, they have a great selection of farmed fish. I still got a smoke mine. I've got farmfish, wild fish. I'm sorry, wild fish.

Sorry, thanks, Doug. You have a great selection. This is what I was terrible. A wild, you have a great selection of wild caught. They don't sell farm. It's all wild. I have some of my freezer right now that I got from them that I have, I've been telling Doug.

I want to, I want to, I want to, smoke it. Yeah, I want to, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't personally smoked salmon yet. When you smoke salmon, you're not cooking it, right? Yeah, you are. It is. It's just, it's a slow cook with, with smoke. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's a slow. It's a slow. I mean, in my opinion, it's the, I'm rarely. It's a lot of and I'm using it for something else and I'm using the gas grill for it. But slow cooking meat over smoke is such a... You know what?

You know what Doug taught me in regards to salmon? Years ago, we went to an advertising, like, I don't know what it was, convention or something like that, a course down in San Diego. And he was ordering salmon. I never heard somebody say this before. You order steak, what are they asking?

The temperature, right? Medium rare, whatever. Yeah. He'd be like, I'll have a salmon, and I want it medium rare. I'm like, you can say that with fish? and so I started doing that. Oh my gosh, it's way better.

Yeah. Oh my God, it's way better. Yeah, they don't even ask you. They just cook it that. Bro, salmon? Yeah. Because salmon cooked medium is delicious. Because overcooked fish is dry.

Dry. Yeah, yeah. And you can eat fish raw. I mean, if you like salmon shesimi, then like, why not have it on almost the raw side and you're probably better off? Again, too, this is why I want to smoke it because I like, I smoke it to like a kind of a raw.

Yeah. Before we got on air, I didn't even know it today was Butcher box. It would, Doug and I were talking about salmon asking where you can get it like that. I'll do it. I'll do it and then they're all report back. My goal is to do it before the next. I got to show you guys. I'm going to share this with

you, Doug, so you can put it up on the screen. Do you guys want to see the cool it? This is not AI. This is a real. It's confirmed. It's a Russian wrestler. Bozzy get is like, I can't even say his name. Forget it. I'm not going to say his name. I just spelled out. Doug put up, put on the

screen this move that he did with three seconds left. in the match. So there's three seconds left. He's down. Okay. And he does this move, bro. And by the way, I will argue this all day long that I think overall general athleticism,

I think wrestlers, high-level wrestlers, are the best displays. I can't disagree. Well, we see that in UFC still with all these mixed martial arts. The guys that have the high pedigrees in wrestling almost always are top. They're just the top. Click on that and then and then... You're a different kind of human... Okay, watch this.

This is with three seconds left. What's where he does. Ready? Jumps. Oh, what in the... Boom! He flips over him. He jumps over him.

Gets him in a body lock and then... That's sick. Oh. That's sick. I've never even seen that before. Yeah. Was that just like a spontaneous idea and he just jumped? Well, that's a real move.

That's a real move? That's a real move. I've never seen any way to do that. If you go over the top of someone, you jump over. So you bring your feet over and then you twist and do this kind of like. But he did it from a jump. So he wasn't like on top of the guy And then he did it from a jump

What a sick To catch you like the Sequin Barclay Twist your body Yeah what a sick move Side suplex or whatever Did you just pop up in your feet or something? It's all been viral right So my argument

Speaking of algorithms My algorithm often has times We'll have wrestling and judo Yeah On there because I love that's a cool That's a cool move right there Isn't that right? Yeah yeah

That's super that's super All right I got some studies to pull up On Manukora Honey Some really cool studies on Monacoa honey, which is kind of wild. So I'm going to go through some of these. The healing honey, they should call it that.

Bro. I want to try it on a cut. Dude, it's crazy. We should experiment with that. I do. Man, you put it on post-surgical wounds, and you get your heel faster. It shortens healing times for burns and surgical wounds.

So if you have a burn, put Monacoa honey on it, put a band-aid over it, it'll heal faster. It's good. And it's also delicious. Don't lick it off, bro. It's also good for gingivitis. So, yeah, dude. So if you have like inflamed gums or whatever,

you could, I know, because of the sugar. No, it's the MGO. And I think it's called, is it MGO that's in there? That is anti-microbial. I don't know it's because I have caps, but sometimes I get like bloody, you know, gums like that.

That's pretty good. You're just, you're greeting. Ah. I might be doing everything hard, eat rocks. Did you guys know that honey was more effective than over-the-counter cough suppressants for kids? No way.

Yeah. There's a 2010 study. Because it coats the throat? No, it actually is a compound. More effective than the cough syrup? For kids. So they have stronger cough stuff for adults. So there are compounds in honey that actually affect the part of the brain that causes the cough reflex.

Oh, I see. Okay. So it calms it down. It actually reduces the cough reflex. Interesting. What is the, what's the prescription? Just one teaspoon of honey? Yeah.

Is that one? Yeah. And a couple times a day. And next time Max gets a cough. And it tastes good. I know. I'm so going to try that versus given some cough syrup that you. Put it in like lemon tea.

Just let them take it straight off the spoon. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not like it tastes good. I used to hot water lemon and then you don't, you don't got to hide it or anything like that. It's also good for H. Pylori. So if you have H. Pylori issues in the gut or gut issues that are due to inflammation, consuming it is good for that. I made it.

I made it. It's like nature's a remedy. We just went through colds in our household. like, what is it a couple of weeks ago when we were all talking on the show. And I made Katrina and I hot toddies with the honey. Yeah, I love it.

It's whiskey. You know, that's the first time. Yeah, yeah, lime and like, fresh squeeze lime, whiskey, and then water and then the honey. Oh, okay. And then you could actually put a little bit, I did twice.

And then I put a cinnamon stick in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to give that to kids when they had coughs. Dude, I, I have actually never shots of whiskey for some sleep. Only because recently, like alcohol has been a part of my life, right, since we've been doing this. I, I've never done that. I've never made a hot toddy when I don't feel good.

It's never thought, I've never thought I would want alcohol when I wasn't feeling good. I'm like, you know, I'm going to make myself one. I knew I had the monacoor honey. So I'm like, I'll use that. I have a lime or lemon tree. So I did a fresh squeezed lemon and was like, Ketri was like, oh my God. This feels so good. Yeah.

All the ingredients in it. Like, yeah. It's going to be a go-to move for me the next time I have cold. That call. You might have to do that. I made you have to have before you feel better. I mean, I had two. I had two.

I thought you can make them pretty stiff, you know what I'm saying? And the cinnamon stick is, if you, if you, like I made the first one with no, no cinnamon, just water. And then I made another one where I did a cinnamon stick. And then I did it another time with apple cider, which has kind of a cinnamon flavor, too, instead of the water. Okay. So if someone who doesn't, can't handle the straight whiskey water is more like a hot cider. Yeah. So, like, probably like if, like, if you were...

Dickens? I didn't say it. I love that brand. It's a great brand. You did it. Yeah. For people who know. Right there.

Dude. I wanted to hear your, uh, money and happiness. Oh, I'll bring it up again. Because I saw you posting your story and I wanted to argue with you. Yeah. No, no. So, no, this is, there's data. There's a lot of data around.

Everybody loves me to argue. Yeah, no, there's a lot of data. We've seen this before. I've shown this data before. Yeah. So, uh, they've done a lot of studies on money and happiness. And the reason why they do these studies is when people, is when people, besides the necessities because you need money for things that are necessary and a certain amount

to feel secure, right? So above and beyond that, people still oftentimes desire more money. I want to make more money. And, you know, when you boil it down and you ask people like, why do you want more money, it all boils down to, I think it'll make me happier. Now, it might start out by saying, well, I want a bigger house or I want a new car. I want to go on this vacation. But then you keep asking why. Well, why, why, why, why? And it's because, well, it'll make me happy. So they've done actually lots of studies on this on what's the best ROI on money for happiness. So what's the best use of this extra money where you're going to get the most happiness in return? Okay.

And so. Well, yeah, thanks for giving it away. Yeah, no problem. The end of the story. So they've tested it with the worst is to buy things. That's the worst. So buying something, you get a spike in happiness. but then you can't repeat that.

So if you buy the same thing again, there's no effect. And then the happiness wears off quickly and then a flatline. So you buy a new purse, you buy cool shoes or whatever. And for the most part, generally what we see in the data is you get this spike and it drops down quickly and then nothing else. And then if you repeat it again, it's like a drug. You're just getting no effect, right? Get the same exact purse again. There's no spike in happiness.

Then the second, which is better, is experiences. So this is where you spend on like a vacation. Because you create memories as you're going. Yes. And so you see a longer happiness spike. And then when you think about that, depending on what happened, the more meaningful the experience, the better the reoccurring happiness from thinking about it.

Nonetheless, you still get this diminishing return over time. So I keep thinking about it, unless it was profound experience, like this is when I met my wife or this is when I had my child or something like that. You get this diminishing return and you still get this. kind of like like a drugs, like your body gets used to it. And so if I think about that vacation, 20 years later, unless it was this profound thing, I really don't get this happiness again.

And then the last one, which was wild, is now there's some parameters around it. But the last one is if you use your money in a way where you voluntarily give it to someone to help them, and if you really want to maximize this according to the data, you see the outcome. So like you have a friend who's struggling. evicted from their house or they're sick and they need medical bills and then you're able step in and help them and then you see a passively but you're like following it all the way yeah then what you get this you get this high spike in happiness that lasts a long time and then what they do in these studies as long as they follow the people so however long the study is every time they

they recall that event they get a similar spike in happiness with no draw so it's like hey remember that time we, you know, help that, you know, our friend in that situation or, hey, remember when we donated to those to help feed the poor or when we did that mission trip, they get the same spike. And so if your ROI, if what you're interested in is happiness, the best ROI based on the data is to give it away, which I think is really, really interesting. It's crazy. So I knew where you were going to go with that. That's why I wanted you to talk about because I've thought a lot about this and I think

independent of each of those things that makes sense logically but I also think that there's a way that all three of those can be fed I'll give you an example what do you mean fed? I'll give an example meaning like a materialistic thing that gives the other two oh so I'll give you an example

okay an example that would be you know Katrina and I could have spent the rest of our lives in a you know, a little condo that her, me, Max grew up in and instead I bought a house, right? And this house, I designed it in a way and I bought it a certain way. And one of the most amazing parts about it is that it fits all of Katrina's family in it. Yeah.

We can all. And we've, I mean, we've thrown at least 10 or 15 parties in less than a year. So like once a month, practically, where I host 30, 40, 50 in my family. Yeah, totally. One of my favorite things to do. Totally, totally. So it's like, it is a materialistic thing, right? Yeah, but that's not what's giving you the happiness.

Right. So it's enabling the thing that gives the happiness. So like, I think, like, comparing those three cycles, like, I would say my shoes falls in that category. Sure. Once you buy one, then you're on to the next one or whatever. It's like, only serves me, you know what I'm saying? It's like very, but there's things like, and then I would even make that argument, like, my buddy and I, who's a car nut, like, who's, he's been in cars for a long time, long, even longer than I have.

And we were having lunch one day after a drive. And these kids, there's two special needs kids came up, talked to us and they pulled out and they were, oh, they're so excited. And we both let them get in and out of the car and stuff like that. And him and I were making having this conversation that that's one of my favorite parts about that. Right.

Like the initial enjoyment of the purchase and the drive of it once you've done all the cool things in it. But actually, one of the gift that keeps giving about it is being able to share that experience to someone's like, I've never sat at it. or driven in one of these. And so I don't think it's as simple as this like you can't get any of these other benefits

from material things. What they call it is, God, there's a term for it. It's like if there's a social component, that's not the term that they use. So like an example would be like a guy who is pursuing growing his business because he wants to make more money. But he uses that money to, I don't know, I'll use an extreme example, build orphanages. Right. Now he's got incredible.

happiness from building his business. Right. So, yeah, I think you could tie lots of, like, lots of different things. That's why I said with the experience. I think it depends what happens in the experience. Like, oh, man, I went on this trip with my wife, or at the time we were dating, and this is when I proposed to her. And so then, you know, you remember that type of deal.

So it's true. But generally speaking, and I know this because, or I think this is people believe this, maybe not consciously, but subconsciously, maybe even sometimes consciously, because companies advertise to us what gives them profit, which is to buy things. And the way that they sell it to us is they don't sell us the thing.

They sell us the dream of what the thing provides. Yeah. Which is happiness, freedom, status. You know, it's never like the purse. It's like the purse, but the people see it. Now you feel like you're more important. Well, remember that's, I remember I've shared with you before on the podcast, the exercise that I do with myself before I make a purchase.

So there's like boundaries. Yeah, you wait like 24 hours before I won't, I won't make it. Then the next question is, is this something that I feel like I got to show to everybody else or is this something for me? Like, right? So there's a lot of layers that because of that reason, because I know that I can be advertised market to impulsive about something. And just simply creating those boundaries makes me really think about that. But I mean, like using the house example is like, man, I feel like it's also a gift too. So it's like this, it's a gift.

It's the experience. and it's a materialistic thing. It's all three of those. It's like, and nobody in my family, in our family has the ability to have a house like that that can host and do all that.

So it's almost like every time they all get together. That's a great point. Imagine having your big place and not being around any family. Right. How empty would that? Totally.

Totally. And so, and by the way, I learned this lesson. So, I mean, I know the last podcast we were teasing me about my bath. This is like me,

my house is not that, big. I had a much bigger, I've had a much bigger, arguably fancier place with views and everything to live. But we were just far enough away from family. Nobody came over. And I remember Katrina and I being like, what is this for? We've got this cool place, you know, and maybe on Instagram, it would look cool to show people. But it's like, if I'm not using it to enjoy family, do that, then it defeats the purpose. And so being where we're at in a smaller place that's filled with love and people. And to know that you,

that every time I do that, it's like, it's like I get to give a gift again. And I get to experience something again. It's like, so there's like, to me, there's a fine line because I feel like

there can be very extreme people on both ends. You can be this, you know, I'm all material and status direction you're going. And then there can be like, nothing matters. Like, money is,

I find it interesting. Like, if you look at, uh, I mean, you're right, 100%, but I think a lot,

I think more people struggle with the, first part if they real maybe they don't realize it but if they really did an analysis it's like man do i need all this stuff and what do i think i'm going to get from getting these things and what happens is like it's a feedback loop it's like i got this thing i got the little spike of happiness it's gone it's not happening again let me try getting something else by the way the data shows on the other side too when people give to help others they are then they start to do it more because they start to feel it and realize it and so it kinds of becomes this positive oh yeah uh feedback loop So I mean, it's really, I think it's fascinating.

It's interesting because I don't think a lot of people realize that. But if you really think about it, you're like, what do I want with this? Like, I got my stuff taken care of. What do I want with this extra money? What do I really want? I just want to be happy. I feel secure already. I got my savings.

We're good. Yeah. What do I want from? I want to be happy. Okay, let me see. Let me try it in this way. Yeah. Do you ever challenge yourself because do you ever, or do you ever think of yourself on, on, on one side or the

extreme or the other and challenge yourself to go outside that a little bit? Because I'll be the first to admit that the first 30 years, I was probably somebody who leaned on that. You know, I had to learn that lesson and maybe a little bit before 30 because I was doing things like the stuff that you know that I've done before for families and things like that. And I got to feel that. And that was a big, which by the way, I think for anybody, that's such a great exercise. Like if you've never done something like that, regardless of what level you, it doesn't have, you don't have to be at a super level. In fact, I would argue, because even when I did that way back when I wasn't in a. a major financial status to where I had lots of extra money to go give.

I think it felt really good knowing that I didn't and actually still did that. And being able to draw back on that memory of doing something for families like that and go like, wow, I could still think about that and get that spike. You know, a decade and a half, two decades later or whatever. So I think that helps pull that back in a little bit. And then just becoming aware of as you stack up some of those material things. I think my sneakers are a good example. I'm very aware of the, you know, ridiculousness of,

of that, right? Like, and it doesn't give it. There is no, nobody else is getting enjoyment. There's no real experiences other than being on my damn feet. You know what I'm saying? You should give them away. I have. I've given a lot of them away.

Oh, yeah, a lot of my shoes I've given away. A ton of my shoes I've given away. So, yeah. But I do think there's also that. I mean, do you ever challenge yourself like? You know, I would, I mean, I have, boy, I have challenges in a lot of different areas. But I thank God that this one is, for me, for whatever reason, never been an issue. It never been like a challenge. Maybe because I grew up feeling secure in this

way. It was never a big deal with my family, I think. So, you know, when it comes to like money in that way, I've never felt challenges there. Thank God. I have challenges in a lot of areas where I really struggle. But that's one where I thank God every day, like, okay, this is not one that is a problem because I could see that one being a hard one, especially if you become successful. I can see that being a real challenge for some people. Or not being successful. I think that would be even harder. Yeah.

Imagine being challenged that way and also feeling like you want. Well, I think that's where a lot of people land. I think a lot of people land in that place of like constantly chasing this. Well, look at the debt people have with like just buying cars. Yeah. Like the average car payment. It's insane. It's crazy.

And most people have it shouldn't even own that car. But what are they doing it for? And I think they bought this kind of idea. Yeah. Did you see? I shared with you. I think you guys, Chris Naguibis, like, on like the credit card debt.

Dude. It's unbelievable what we're in right now. Yeah. And the, the ability now to defer, like food and defer like your rent. Like, that's crazy. That's crazy.

Yeah, it's wild. Eight sleep is the most advanced sleep system in the world that will dramatically improve your sleep. So check it out. It goes over your mattress and it cools or warms your bed. And it uses, AI technology to monitor your sleep, to maximize the temperature, to maximize the quality of your sleep. There's nothing like it anywhere. By the way, a lot of their devices have two sides.

So you and your spouse can have different temperatures because, of course, you're different people. Look, if you want better sleep, better recovery, which leads to lots of better things, better fat loss, better muscle gain, you want to get one thing that makes a huge impact. Go to 8Sleep.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump and get you. yourself a massive, huge discount. Back to the show. Our first caller is Benjamin from Switzerland. Hey, Benjamin. It's happening. How are you guys? Good. Good. How can we help you? So a bit of context here. It's a two-part question, but a few years ago, basically I lost a substantial amount of weight. And so it was a great

benefit for my life, but I eventually pushed things way too far with training volume, running, intensity, and especially the whole like calorie tracking aspect of things, which basically saw my hormones, energy and just a lot of blood market is kind of just completely tank. And so for the last few years, it's really been more of like a uphill battle in a way of trying to rebuild my body, my relationship with it, but also just managing overall stress better, especially with, I'm kind of leading two to three careers at the same time, so that's definitely a challenge. I've run quite a few of your programs over the past couple years.

Right now, I'm doing performance again. Not too sure if I should stick with it, but it seemed like a decent fit. And so my goals right now basically are to try and put on some muscle again, because I feel like I've been spinning my wheels, but without overdoing the volume. I've been very into mobility and like handstand trainings also. And recently did pick running back up, which I know sounds counterintuitive. But I've really focused more on just the joy of it without tracking metrics too much. And I've been loving it so far.

So yeah, more than anything, I think to be honest, it's more about getting back to feeling like the little ball of energy I used to be known for being, I guess. Yeah. So yeah. Good question. So in your email, it says you lost over 100 pounds? Yeah. In the space of around two years, I lost around 135 pounds.

Great job. Oh, yeah. You look great, dude. Great job, man. And so now the main goal is I just want to feel better and have more energy. Yeah, I think obviously the muscle and all that, like that's something that will come with time, but it really is just like you said, the daily energy, just feeling good. And whether that's also with my relationship with food, exercise, and it's gone so much better already. But obviously, it's always a work in progress.

And then you said you have about three careers going on right now. Can you explain that a little bit? So basically, I'm a professional musician. I'm a cellist. So I'm a performing soloist after having done my postgrad in that. But at the same time, I'm working in my family business, which is a dermatology but also longevity clinic now. So I'm working in that aspect of things and studying to become a health coach at the same time to kind of mend the two together. Okay.

So this is a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah, long days. Okay, okay. So losing that much weight is profoundly transformational, but also it's a big deal on the body. You lost the whole human off your body. And what it takes to get there is not where you want to stay to maintain. And you're probably feeling the low energy because you're just doing too much.

And you want to go through a period of rejuvenation and rebuilding. And you're going to need to go through this period. for probably a year or two before you start to ramp things up and chase different goals. So you're going to have to go through a period of rest, essentially. Now, that doesn't mean you don't exercise, but everything that you do is kind of moving in that direction or centered towards that or aiming towards that. And what you'll notice from that is more energy. So less is more with this process.

You know, Maps 15 would be your strength training protocol. Yeah. If you really, really love running, I guess it's okay. But if you want the energy, I would walk and just focus on steps. I would just make sure you're fueled if you're going to do that running. Like, you're, I mean, you don't want to be running and really low calorie too. That would be really bad recipe. Running with the proper amount of nutrients and calories for the enjoyment of it, I could see okay.

But if I was training you, I'd want to know where we're at calorie-wise before I let you go run and do that. I mean, kind of where Sal's going and where my brain goes with where you're at in your life. He did such an incredible job getting down to where you are. You're a much healthier, fitter place. Your workouts should try, your workouts actually shouldn't be your focus. Your focus should be kind of the career, your passions, staying healthy. And so you should train to be that person. You've done such a good job getting here. And then all the other things, the energy, hormone stuff, all that stuff will balance itself out because you, work out to support your lifestyle and what you're doing, not to get to a certain place.

You're at a place in your life where you have a lot of stuff going on. You've already accomplished the big rock, which was getting all that weight off your body and putting yourself in a healthy weight now. Now what your workout optimization looks like is really doing the least amount to elicit the most change, which is just a minimal dose that keeps you strong, get you good rest, keeps you mobile, but not trying to stretch yourself and, like, hit these goals and trying to gain a bunch of muscle or get really good at BJJ. Or it's like that that's what's going to optimize you for longevity. And Benjamin, that doesn't mean you're always going to be there.

Right, right. Okay, because this is a period of your time. This is a season. So to put it differently, you went through a radical, physical, and psychological transformation losing all that weight. And so now your body needs to go through a period of rest. That was a radical change. So like when I work with a woman who gets pregnant and has a baby, they're always like, how quickly can they get back in shape?

How fast can I get back to how? I was like, well, hold on. We just went through a radical change. It's going to, now that doesn't mean you don't progress afterwards, but it's going to take a couple years before you start to like, oh, like I'm back to my old self because that radical change. Your change was massive, 135 pound weight loss. physically is a big deal,

but it's also psychologically a big deal. Like your mind had to change quite a bit to go from where you were to where you're at now. So now you've got to go through a period of rest and recuperation, which is probably going to look like a year or two. Which also, by the way, though,

is the fastest path to you feeling better. You white-knuckling it. Though you white-knuckling it and trying to work your way back to a healthier version of yourself is not going to work. So this is not like one of those things. It's like, can I do this and can I do that?

Can I do this to get to me to feel this way? It's like, honestly, the less you do in this situation and focus just on healthy, rest, recovery, doing as little as possible to build some strength. And that's what it looks like. So this is not one of those things of what are all the things I can do to get there faster? The fastest path actually looks like the kind of laying off like what Sal's alluding to right now. That is the fastest path. And I think you'll see positive changes relatively quick before. I think he's setting the table so you have to set your expectations right that this could take a year or so to get back to feeling like the best version of you.

But you could start to feel that right away and a lot sooner, but it's not through doing more stuff. Yeah. The reason why I'm saying a year or two is because you are going to feel better quickly and you might be fooled into thinking now I can ramp things back up. because if you started following Maps 15 right now and you did no additional strength training, no additional workouts. And all you did was Maps 15 and walk. Okay? No exercise.

No running. No calisthenics. No BJAJ. No, nothing. Just walk every day. Make sure I get, you know, eight to 10,000 steps. And then my lifting looks like Maps 15,

which is like two lifts. Your energy be through the roof. Within a month, you're going to notice an increase in energy. And you're going to feel good. And then you're going to be fooled into thinking, okay, now I can ramp it back up. Yeah, yeah. What I'm saying to you is you got to have a year of that, a year of feeling good, a year of that rest before you start to ramp things up, maybe even two years.

Because that's 135 pounds is not nothing. Most people don't even get close to that weight loss. You literally lost an entire human. So that's the direction you want to go. And the reason why you feel like you're doing these things, but your energy isn't good is because it's time now to let your body. settle after all that massive shift. Because if you keep pushing, which, by the way, pushing isn't going to look like a lot.

Because you may judge it. You may think, well, this is not that much. I know people who work out like that. Yeah, but they didn't lose 135 pounds. So give yourself like a year or two of sitting in that rest. And then I promise you, it's going to be like, oh, man, I can start ramping things up and you'll be a brand new person. Yeah, it's funny because I,

I obviously and it's where we always say like I know deep down that that's exactly what I would tell others and it's always harder and it's always way we never follow our like own advice and that's why already I've now it's been what maybe eight or eight months maybe or so that I decided to put BJJ on the side

and that was tough like I really fell in love with it and it also it was one of my outlets in the beginning to kind of shift my focus away from all the calorie tracking and all that and it gave me this kind of focus that I mean you've talked about it of like just performance and yeah that kind of aspect but I realize that it's still not the right moment and I'll pick it back up I'm sure later on yeah but that that was kind of I know that was rough for me but if I if I'm honest with myself like I know that over the past four years

since I lost our weight, like, I've hovered around the same five kilos, which is maybe like 10 pounds. So of like trying these like kind of bulks, but then stopping a bit shy because I felt uncomfortable with it. Also from my perspective, there's a side of it is always hard to judge in terms of, I know I like this, obviously some new skin and stuff like that. So judging like also where I'm at, body was like body 5% and all. that is objectively deceiving. And that often is a barrier in itself to, you know, just trust the process. And I've really worked since like September or so to just stay on. I set this goal of whatever happens.

Like I'm not going to do anything too drastic in terms of trying to even approaching the holidays is the first time I didn't approach it with a cut or anything. So like I've done huge improvements in terms of that. But it's always. yeah, it's something I know. Like, it will take time. I'm just trying to navigate kind of this. How do I, yeah, the working out in terms of.

Benjamin. I know you don't need much. Let me encourage you. Let me encourage you, okay. What you did to lose 135 pounds is a lot harder than what you need to do right now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

You're being really hard on yourself. Number two, I've never seen somebody lose over 100 pounds and look as good as you do. Yeah. Like never. Yeah. You send some pictures. I'm like, muscular, dude. And, yeah, you talk about loose skin.

Like, you look, like, your body bounced better than I've ever seen. Yeah. And I've worked with a lot of people who've had some pretty radical transformations through bariatric surgeries and the like. So you're doing great. Here's the deal, okay? You're afraid of going back to where you were before. And I get that.

Here's how you should approach your nutrition. Stop tracking. Eat until you're satisfied. Eat whole food. hit your protein. That's it. That's it. Don't weigh yourself because that's going to mess you up. And try not to study yourself in the mirror, take pictures of yourself too much with your shirt off. And don't try and feel good. Don't try in bulk or cut. Feed the body when it's hungry. It's a beautiful thing when you're getting healthy and your strength training with like a MAPS 15. It will tell you when it needs more calories to build that muscle. And it'll tell you when you're satisfied and fine. It's a beautiful thing. So long as it's whole natural foods, you can trust your satiety sign.

much more. So you just eat whole natural foods, hit your protein targets, which is your body weight and protein, eat that first. Follow Mass 15 and just walk.

Hit your two lifts a day. You're good. That's it, dude. Yeah, it's going to be hard, but it's, I'm telling you right now,

it is what you went through to get here, way harder, dude. Yeah. You're being really, I think you're just got some fear because you're maybe afraid of going back

to where you were before or whatever, but I don't think that's going to happen. Yeah, for sure. And like, I think it's kind of part two of the question, if that's all right.

Yeah. I think you hit a right note about the fears that, like, I'm very aware of it. But there's, in a sense, also a bit of imposter syndrome, I think, because a big thing for me right now, like a massive goal and, like, driving purpose in my life, which I've always had from playing the chat or, you know, performing for people. It's I want to help people and, like, serve. And in this case, I basically want to help them avoid the mistakes that I made along the way. And so, like, I know that everyone goes through the struggles, but there's that aspect of,

I'm still struggling with certain things. And I'm very honest about it. I have no issue talking about it. But managing that kind of reality of things while also being able to help others in their life journeys and transformations. lean into it. Lean into it, Benjamin. That'll make you better. Lean into it.

You've been listening to this show for a long time, yeah? I knew you were going to say that. Of course I'm going to say that. I could have quoted you, I think. Because if you've listened for a long time, you know, that's what makes this show, is that we're not afraid to share our struggles, the things, still today, you know, what we go through and our mishaps and what we learned and how silly and stupid we were before and how we keep making mistakes.

people connect with that and people will resonate with that and they'll respect that. So lean into that. Lean into where you're at in your journey. Where you get imposter syndrome is when you try and pretend you're something you're not. And people will appreciate the vulnerability and appreciate what you've accomplished already is amazing and can help so many people from your story. Don't try and pretend like you have all the answers and you've figured it all out. Then you'll be an imposter. That's right.

Then you'll feel imposter syndrome. Be who you are and where you're at and open with what you're still trying to figure out. And that is what will resonate with the people that you're helping. And you'll help way more people that way. And you'll be far more successful if you come from that place. Yeah. Yeah. And I started sharing actually some social media content, like focused around cooking because I love cooking.

And giving like kind of healthier tips around that, like meal prep. Like you often like, I may have used you a couple of times in terms of cooking batch meats. the dinner before. But yeah, trying to like, because it's been a way to reclaim kind of power over food, like the way that it controlled me. And I'm trying to funnel that also. But yeah, I know I'm stepping in the right direction. It's more just kind of being able to strip things down and get a clear of you.

Yeah, I have no, I have a lot of confidence that you're going to do great. You're doing good, bro. Yeah. Yeah, I think the discomfort you feel is because you're such a fast grower, it sounds like. It sounds like you're pretty rapid with personal growth when you kind of decide to go in a direction. And that's always uncomfortable. But you're doing great, bro. You're doing really, really well.

Give yourself a good year of rest. So that's how you approach your exercise. A good year of rest around food, which means you're not watching every bite. You're just eating when you feel hungry. Sticking a whole natural foods, hit your protein first. those are your guardrails. I think it's great if you help other people. I think that's one of the things that saved me from going too crazy

was that I helped other people and be honest. And be just totally honest. It makes you a better coach, better trainer. That's it. That's it. Yeah, you're doing great, dude. Yeah, and I just wanted to say, yeah, thanks for all the stories also that you guys share. I know recently Adam, everything you've been talking about, like it,

just like what I want to be able to provide to others, like it really does help give a lot of a more human, like your approach to this. So I think it's, yeah, it's amazing what you guys have been doing. Awesome. Thank you. You're going to do great, brother. Yeah, do you have MAPS 15? Do you have any of those programs?

I'll send something. So actually, I do have 15, but I was wondering if maybe to make Justin happy also. Do you reckon MAPS 15 performance could be something to look at. Yeah, absolutely. I'll send it to you. They're both great. You love them. I think so much. Yep. You got it, dude. Good. All right, buddy. If I can ask one last little suggestion, you guys should consider doing some sort of like maps inner or maps inner circle program with Jordan Sight at once.

Great, dude. I'm sure that's something a lot of people would love. Yeah, awesome. We love Jordan. Yeah, he's great. He's great. All right, Benjamin. Take it easy, brother. Keep it up. All right. By the way, the way he looks after losing 135 pounds, that's like best. I know. It's crazy. 135 pounds is huge. Yeah, it's massive. You got to go through, look, you go through a drastic, dramatic, first of all, losing

30 pounds of body fat is a big change. Mentally, physically, 135 pounds? Yeah, you're going to need a year to just sit in it and just let your body rest. Just recover. Recuperate. You were chasing for that whole time. really good that we had a discussion around that because I know what you mean when you say that. But I think a lot of people hear that and they think a year? Yeah. I got to wait a year to see results.

To feel good. Yeah. You know, I just think that it's or just think it's going to be that long until they feel good at all. It's like, no, you'll feel you'll feel better and better every week. And then it was. You've got to just wait a year. And you're crazy. And you're right. What happens to people is they start off the right path by taking the advice. And then a month or two later, they're like, oh, I feel great and then they start to ramp it up. That's right. And then go right back. And so that's really the advice is that, listen, you're going to be, you're going to be feeling really good pretty quick. You know, a couple months of taking that advice, walking and eating like that and training math 15. Yeah, you'll be humming. 30, 60 days, he's going to be feeling really good. What he doesn't know is that his body's not really good yet and it needs to stay in that place

for a year. And that's going to be the hard part is the temptation to want to ramp up and do more. Our next caller is John from Kentucky. What's up, John? How are you doing, John? How you doing, guys? Good. Good. How can we help you, man?

Well, I'll just start with the emails. Most people do. I said, hello, guys. First of all, I want to thank you for information that you guys put it out in the way you put it out there. So many people like to make things sound so complicated. And I really appreciate the simple way you guys put it out. So that's common. I folk can understand it.

Backstory time, 47 years old, 6'4. 322 pounds down from 380 at my heaviest. It's been several years to get there. Yo-yo back and forth on and off. So top two diabetic. I am on Moncharro, more for the diabetes and the weight loss. My doctor keeps pushing me to try to get my dose up. I'm currently on 7.5 milligrams weekly.

It's the auto-injector, all or nothing. I do have low testosterone. I was sub 100 when we found out about it. They put me on 200 milligrams every other week. Levels come up to about 404 average. So I've talked to my doctor into putting me on 200 milligrams weekly. And after listening to your MP hormones podcast the other day, I've decided to start even breaking that up and doing the Monday, Thursday,

like he had suggested on that video. So doing the 100 on Monday, 100 on Thursday. Just started that this week. So I can't really tell you how well it's working for me. But hopefully it works a lot better than what this has been. I am a stage three rectal cancer survivor with a stage one reoccurrence almost two years later. Luckily, they were able to catch that reoccurrence super, super early. so it allowed for a surgical procedure that didn't leave me with any kind of a permanent

colostomies or stuff like that. So definitely thank God for that one because I was struggling with that one. So I'm an athlete trainer at a local high school here where I live. Job's not always physically demanding, but there's lots of standing, lots of moving. And I've always been the fat guy, always been the fat kid. and started to stop more times that I can count. Kind of tired of it. Time to make a change.

Sorry, I waited so long in life to do it, but I got to do it. So looking around on Spotify for a podcast on fitness over 40, and I found your episode about the best workout diet and supplement routine for me in over 40. I wrote everything down. So I'm doing everything to the letter. As with most knuckleheads,

I decided to add a third day to it instead of doing the two days. And it's what it is, right? More is better, right? So after 10 weeks of that, which we're at 12 weeks now, I'm making good progress. At least I was. Ended up with a pinch nerve on my neck. My doctor, that's my medical director here, confirmed that yesterday, put me on some high-dose steroids and some muscle relaxers. Doing a little bit of PT with a buddy of mine to kind of hope to get that lined out pretty quick as quick as I can and get back into,

to doing everything. My nutrition isn't perfect. I work some crazy hours. I do the best I can. I was trying to eat whole foods. It doesn't always work. Sometimes Subway's the best I could do that day. Or, you know, unfortunately pizza.

So I'm averaging about 2,600 calories a day, 160 grams of protein, 236 grams of carbs, 121 grams of fat. So I was losing with the pensioner, I was losing some, actually a lot of strength in my left arm as far as the triceps go, having pain and muscle spasms in that tricep. Didn't know if I was overtraining or if it was the pinch nerve. Then to find out it's the pinch nerve, I'll probably overtrating a little bit too with not enough calories and be my guess.

But elbow kind of kicks out, gives out when I'm trying to do any kind of chest or a tricep exercise. So I started to go backwards on that. really kind of hit me a little bit. I was doing so good that that backspod kind of hurt me there a little bit. But I just, I want to know your guys' opinion on what I need to do now. I mean, obviously, after I get this pinched nerve under control, where do I need to go from here? Yeah, you're doing pretty well. I mean, the black and white answers, and by the way, in your email, you said they wanted

up your dose of Monjaro. Yes, yeah. My doctor keeps trying to get me to push that up. and I keep fighting her. As a matter of fact, I've got an appointment next week, and I'm going to, I'm going to tell her I want to drop back down. I want to drop down to the five, the five milligram to get up the stuff. It causes so much GI problems with me. It really hits me hard.

When I take it at the beginning of the week for the first, you know, two or three days, it's miserable, then it kind of gets better, but then it's time to take it again. And I'm just tired of the GI problems with it. Is it constipation, diarrhea? Is it acid reflux? all of the above. It's diarrhea. It's just nausea, that kind of stuff. I will tell you too, though, just so you know,

the most likely, at least in my experience, the subway sandwiches and the pizza will exacerbate that for sure too, just so you know. It definitely does not do well on foods that your body doesn't digest easy. It definitely makes all those things really, really difficult. So my clients that have struggled with this, helping them connect those dots that, hey, it's like when you're taking that stuff, it's even more important to eat super clean.

And if you don't, you're going to end up paying for it. You could take, you could try cillium husk fiber. And you take that with each meal. And oftentimes it makes a difference. Okay. Yeah, with the GI stuff. Okay. So, I mean, here's the thing.

You want to be consistent with nutrition. Yes. Okay. And maintain that. And then as far as workout is concerned, I can send you one of ours. so you have something to follow. But, you know, also just taking a step back, John, you said this is something you've been just cycling, the challenge you've been dealing with since you were a kid?

Yes. Okay. Your best bet is, I don't know if it's feasible for you, but working with a coach is going to be your best bet because it's going to be a bit of a process. Yes. So, you know, we have really good coaches. You would work with them. And what they would do is it would take you through step by step.

So they start you off with nutrition. They look at what you're doing. We'll start tracking, make adjustments. as we go along. They'll also make adjustments to your workout programming where you could send, you know, videos of your technique and your form and then just continue to coach you along the way because it is going to be a bit of a journey. I will say I think you're doing a great job. You've got the hormones down. It looks like you've already lost like 60 pounds or something like that. Which is really good. You're moving in the right direction for sure, which would make you a really good candidate for now taking the step and working with a coach. And I think six months of coaching would be, super transformational for a guy like you. I think it would be very, very, very transformation. Also really good timing with you getting the TRT up because 400 is still low. Now you're going to end up being higher than that now, which is going to be so nice.

And if you do hit those macros, if we can hit those, those are good macros. The numbers you gave, if we can be consistent with that, TRT levels up, following good programming. Real good consistent programming. Yeah, you should start doing really well. So now that doesn't mean we won't have tough weeks and backslides, but that's what the coaching and what Sal is talking about is in those moments and those times that the coach who's just like, all right, this is what I want you to do from here. Probably the biggest mistake clients do when they're on their own with this is hard swings one way.

Are they either doing really, really good or, ah, you have really shitty bad eating and bad, bad couple days or like that. Yeah. And sometimes that's overcommitting yourself to too much too soon at certain states. So that and this is what good coaching looks like is that that consistent conversation where it's like, you know, as a coach, I can see, okay, there's a couple things he's doing here that I don't want him doing, but I don't want to tell him to stop all that stuff. I'm going to have him just focus on this one thing, right? And let's get better at that. And then this, and that's what it looks like is just attacking one, one thing that's going to make improvement. And then another thing that's going to make improvement. And you left the coach determine that. Yeah. And the coach determines that for you to help you stack these wins. So it doesn't feel like this pendulum swinging back and forth. really hard. Just to give you, just so you know,

the hard swings, part of the reason why it's a hard swing to the good side is because you feel like crap about, you know, what just happened. I just fell off. I just ate a whole pizza, whatever.

Then you swing real hard in one direction. And then you hate it. And then you swing hard in the other direction. And so, yeah, several times I've let, you know, several times I've let,

you know, a bad day or two bad days or, or something just kind of, kind of sanitize that. And I'm like, well, crap. And then,

Yep. You know, here we go. And you know what? Here's a deal, too. Like, feeling crappy about yourself in that way only makes it all worse. And this sounds logical, by the way. You know, you probably understand this up here. But, you know, getting through the process and feeling it, you know, in here makes a big difference.

So I'll give you this advice right here. The coach will be very effective, the more honest you are and the more you turn to them. Okay. So what you don't want to do is keep from them. the little mess-ups, keep from them the challenge. They tell you to, you're like, look, I don't want to do that. Be honest with them. That'll allow them to coach you in a very effective way.

And I think in six months, you'll be huge difference. Yeah, huge difference. You'll have definitely some physical changes for sure, but just the mental place you're going to be in very different in six months. And your odds of success, consistent success will go through the roof. So that's essentially what you'd be looking at. Okay. Yeah.

You want somebody to call you? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'll talk to somebody. All right, I'm going to have someone call you, John. Okay. And I'll let them know what we talked about. And then I hope to see you in there, dude. Yeah.

All right, sounds great. All right, brother. You're doing good, man. Yeah, appreciate you guys. Thanks. I just want people to know, too, like listening. It's very easy for us, experienced, you know, fitness guys, to tell them the right answer.

Of course. that's not hard. That's easy. The hard part is like, okay, now we got to do it and we got to do it consistently. And then, oh, you messed up. What do we do now?

And, you know, you're looking at, you know, for a guy like this with what he's gone through, you know, between six months to a year of that real transformation where then it's like, you know what? I can do this. I got this.

I can do this on my own. Well, and I'm so glad you said what you said with the last piece of advice of being honest with your coach because a lot of the success or the failure of this is hinges on. that. That's right. If he's really transparent and like, man, that was really hard to do those things.

Or I really like that. Or I, you know, I screwed up and I did this thing. A good coach will be able to see that and go, okay. Work with what you tell them. Yeah. And then then I know it's like, okay, I gave him a little too much. I can anticipate. I did a little too much too soon. Let me just have him do this. And then we start stacking wins. And then I can add another thing. And so, and getting that and that's a six month to a year type of journey. And what happens sometimes, oftentimes, I would say, is the person does well in the beginning. Then they start messing up. They hide it from the trainer. Or they tell them, and then they get sick of telling them

that they messed up a bunch of times. So they hide it. And then they stop seeing the coach. But it's not because they don't like the coach is because they're like, I just don't want to deal with this. I don't want to be that failure or whatever. So you just got to keep turning to them.

They'll be way more effective if you do that. Our next caller is Rebecca from Florida. Hi, Rebecca. Hi, Rebecca. Hi, I'm huge fan. So excited to be here. Thanks for calling in. How can we help you? So my husband and I are starting our first cut. We've been on a bulk. So we both like,

to give you a little background, I started weight training about a year ago, gotten a big accident, had to kind of change up my routine. So started weight training for the first time, fell in love with it, started doing a bulk to build up my muscles. So I've been doing reverse diets. We listen to your advice all the time, kind of working out every day. day four, five to six times a week. Now we want to start a cut and wanted your nutrition advice, workout advice. We're thinking about changing our workout routine to about three days a week, our training and kind of doing more full body. We did the push, pull, legs, and then a variety of other exercises. So want some advice on that and some advice on nutrition. All right, Rebecca,

first off, I'm going to ask you why you want to do a cut. You look amazing for me. Yeah, you look like you're like low 20s body fat. What do you want to try to get to? Well, like, I've gained 10. So I've gained about 10 pounds. I'm about a 22% body fat, but I've gained about 10 pounds. So I'm feeling like, what do I do next? I don't want to like keep gaining, but I want to make sure that I like, where your calories

at right now? So I don't track that. Okay. I feel like I've been super hungry since I started. That's such a good. That's you getting. I eat a lot. Like I, you know, we try to keep up our protein.

goals, but I don't, we don't track macros or calories. So Rebecca, what's your, what's your husband's body fat percentage at? Did he test this? He is now at 21. So he went from 175. He went up another 10%. And then the also question is, we love working out together. We're really busy.

We have free kids. This is our time together. Can we be doing the same or should we be doing the same? Your workout's fine. But, okay, so here's what I'm going to tell you. I don't think you should go on a cut. He could go on a cut. Yeah.

Yeah. Your body fat percentage is low 20s. You're 22%. I can see that you've got some muscle. That's a healthy range. You're 50. If you go on a cut, you're not going to like the way it feels at all.

In fact, the better way for you to get leaner is to keep building muscle. Especially if you're getting the signal that you're still hungry. Feed. You'll actually get leaner easier. You'll get leaner easier if you just focus on building for you. Yes. If you start to cut,

what'll probably happen is you'll lose some muscle. Hormones are going to go not that good. And you're not going to be very happy. So I would have you continue on the reverse, and you can slow it down if you want, and just try to keep building muscle. I don't know where your husband's calories are at. So unless they're low, then that would be different. But if he's at 21. We both try to eat.

I mean, we have free kids, teenage kids. We have big dinners, but we have a lot of protein. We eat a lot of meat. Okay. Good. Good. So what about the fitness? What about the training routine?

So we've been doing like five days. We're thinking about doing. now cutting it to three days full body. I love that. Anabolic. MAPS end up on, like cardio on the off days. Perfect.

Perfect. Love that. That's perfect. Love that. Maps endabolic with the cardio on the off days. Yep. Yep. Two days a week.

Justin actually bought me muscle mommy. Muscle mommy maps. Yeah. 15. But I can't figure out how to get it into the routine that I'm doing. Why don't I just send you the original muscle mommy? Yeah. Probably be better fit.

Yeah. The original. Since you're working out a three, you know, a few days a week. In the trigger sessions, you do your cardio. Yeah, that's it. I'll send you that program. You follow that. And your husband can follow along if you wants to change some of the exercise.

No, switch. Give him a muscle, give him a maps and a baller. And you guys can both be working out at the same time doing similar stuff. It's a different programming. Yeah. But put him on it, put him on anabolic. He can run a cut. You stay the same.

And so is there, okay, since you don't track, uh, should we track? I mean, well, I'm not going to, I never would. force a client, because you're, especially as great as you look in and you're doing such a good job. But I'd ask a little bit deeper questions about your, like if you were to tell me, what's our bad thing? Like, do you, are you, do you, if, if you're not eating perfect, what does it look like? Our bad thing is not food. It's drinking. So we're trying to stop drinking during the week. Okay. So like wine with dinner and. Okay. So, okay. So here's my advice to you. If you want to to see yourself lean out a little bit, try and replace the alcohol calories with meals.

so instead of drinking instead of 160 calories of the wine have a meal like a real small you're not having 160 calories or one

nobody has 160 calories a one there's this guy do you have what do you have one do you have one two ounce glass or no

I'm sure you have I'm sure you have four or five hundred calories with a wine which is normal when someone's having a nice night of drinking so of that

Katrina and I enjoy that everyone but if you want to see your body change a little bit more without tracking and doing that do your best

to replace the alcohol with a good meal. A good balanced meal with the way your metabolism going, the way you're building muscle, you will build more muscle, you will lean out if you can do it. And listen, I'm not going to tell you to do it forever. Just do it for me for a couple months and I'll show you what that your body. And guess what? When you build the more, by switching that for a little bit, building the muscle, your metabolism will up, then you can get away with more of the alcohol later on and still keep a better body.

So if that's your thing, it sounds like you're doing a lot of the other things right. and I bet the extra protein that your body will need will fuel that building muscle. That would be it. That's all I would change. That's enough that you told me enough right there to go, that little tweak for a couple months will not only lean you out. You'll see yourself, your waistline probably come in and you'll build muscle and you'll look amazing. Your husband could probably go a little bit on a cut on anabolic. You guys would be awesome.

He could cut the alcohol and not replace it with either. He talked to Marcello from your team. I gave him, got some nutrition advice. He had to call with him. Okay. He gave him some advice on like how to like look at food with, using your hand and it was really helpful. Okay, good. There you go.

Perfect. Yeah. You guys, that's it. You're set. Yeah. But Sal's right. I would not put you, I wouldn't put you on to cut it on. No, it doesn't make any sense. And that and the, especially since you tell me too, you have these crazy hunger, your body's trying to build. It wants to build more muscle. You'll run the risk if you try to go on a cut of losing muscle and ending up with less muscle saying body fat or hunger.

I don't want to do is lose because I've worked really hard to gain muscle. No, no, you will. Keep going in that direction. If you just replace the, the extra calories that are coming from. alcohol with meals with high protein meals. You'll build muscle and you'll lean out. Do you do you guys recommend a three meals a day or like eating more frequently with in between personal preference? Yeah, it depends.

It's personal preference, but keep this in mind. Okay. It's really hard for both men and women to hit their protein intake with like three or less meals. It typically takes at least it is. It's hard to get that many grams of protein. Unless you guys, you're eating 10 ounces of meat every time. time you eat, it's hard to get enough protein each time, especially early on in breakfast meals.

That's where most people have the hardest time. So four meals normally looks like a good spot, you know, with balanced protein is a good spot to be at. If you do less, you just got to keep in mind you got to really eat a big portion of meat to make up for that protein. So if you guys were to ever track anything, that would be the thing I'd have you track first. Just see if you're hitting your grams of protein every day. consistently. And I bet if we were to just track that and watch that, because you get some of these empty calories from alcohol occasionally, if anything's low, it's protein. And I bet if you bump that up, you'll see more muscle come on and you'll lean out. Because those are just

empty calories. They're not doing anything for you other than enjoyment. But I'm not going to tell that forever because I, if you like that, I like that. Katrina loves wine. I like having a nice class of whiskey. I absolutely balance that in my life. But when I'm trying to make some changes. That goes aside for a little bit. Give me a couple months of running it and making good choice. And it makes a huge difference, huge difference. Okay.

Yeah. And you're fine. The fitness routine changing it from the five days to the three days of weight plus the two days of walking is you're good with that. Yeah, you'll probably get stronger. You're going to get stronger. You're going to build muscle. It's going to be great.

Yeah. Yes. You're going to build. I want to thank you guys so much. You have helped us both personally in our relationship by starting this together professionally. I run a small company that trains teachers. And we've started like with hard behaviors with children and started introducing some of this wellness to them. And it has changed the way that they walk into their classrooms every day. So I listen to find them all the time.

And a lot of what you share, I try to share with the teachers I work with. And it's been super helpful. So that's so awesome. Thank you. Thank you. That's really been life changing. Thank you. You got it. Thank you so much. Keep it up. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I got to say, I'm just because it's just people listening. If you're a woman over the age of 40, you've been strength training, your body fat percentage is in the low 20s. Don't want to cut.

Don't want to cut. You're going to get negative effects from it, almost always. Listen, I don't care. 22% is lean. I don't care what age you, what age you are as a female. This is what we're experiencing, I experience with Corinne right now. Our body fat percentage was too low that our, like, before we started seeing the results when I see, it needed to be up to see.

That's right. It's like most... And you've been saying this for a very long time. Most ones. There's always exceptions to the rules, right? But for the majority, most women do better at 19 plus percent as far as the results. And we've talked about that... You recently talked about this with just being mind-blown about where I just came in at high body fat percentage.

A body with more muscle on it at higher body fat percentage looks way better than you think it does. and just a skinnier body. So if she puts on five pounds of muscle, she'll look 3% leader. Even if her body fat percentage, just stays the same. That's what I mean. Even if she stays the same,

if she puts five pounds of muscle on, she'll look 3% leader. Oh, yeah. And so, and be eating way more and healthier. And that faster metabolism then gives her that flexibility then to have that glass of wine there and there and be okay. Our next caller is Angela from Indiana.

Hi, Angela. Hello. Hi, Angela. Thanks for having me. You got it. How can we help you? Okay. I'm just going to read my email like most people do.

Okay. Says I'm a 47-year-old perimenopausal mother of three teenagers. I'm a recovery long-distance runner, OTF goer, Orange Theory Fitness, and Beach Body Workout Person. I work a full-time job and two part-time jobs. I have been working out consistently for the last 18 months, but really haven't noticed any changes in my body. I'm reaching my protein goals and sleeping seven.

to eight hours per night. I have done muscle mommy twice and anabolic once in addition to other non-mind pump workouts. I would love your help to actually see changes in my body. I also have recurrent tennis elbow in my right arm. This has caused me to avoid workouts for up to six weeks in the past and then I get an injection and it gets better. And just any any recommendations on how to prevent this in the future. Okay, cool. So when you're doing our programs, are you doing anything else on top of it like cardio, like any other exercise? So for the most part, no, just walking, try to get 8 to 10,000 steps in a day. On the days I do a workout, it's probably closer to like 7,000, 8,000 steps. But on the days that I don't have a workout, then I make literally walk my workout for the day. Good. And then when you say for the most part, what do you mean?

I did try running again a little while back, but I've stopped it since because I was just tired of not seeing changes. But I've stopped that probably about six weeks ago. Okay. So you're just, you're just, you're just burning the candle at both. with full-time, two-part-time. You've got three teenagers. You also have a history of just getting after it. It seems like that's your M-O. One of our MAPS-15 programs would work better for you. You would get much better results with something like that.

I had a feeling you were going to say that. Yeah, do you work out at home? Right now I work out at home. Good. Oh, good. I'm going to send you, you like Muscle Mommi type of style? I can send you MAPS-15 Muscle Mommi. Yeah, that'd be great.

I'll send that to you. Do that. maintain the walking, keep hitting the protein and getting good sleep. And I think you're going to start seeing some good progress for that. And as far as the perimenopausal thing, are you doing anything on the hormone side? Are you got somebody checking and watching that? Is that all good? Yes.

So I start, well, I have a gynecologist. We started looking into it last year. I've actually been on hormone replacement since about September. Okay. Oh, it's perfect. Yes. Okay, cool. Perfect.

Yeah, you're just doing so much that the dose of strength training needs to be less. Okay. I do plan on cutting back my jobs at some point in time, but I have twins in flight school, and so my husband and I are trying to pay off their flight school loans for them so they don't have a lot of debt. Wow. Very cool. No, no, no, the 15 program. So after Maps 15 muscle mommy, if you feel good on it, which I think you will, then go to the next Maps 15 program, Mass 15 symmetry or power lift or traditional mass 15. I think that protocol is going to give you great results. Are you tracking calories or anything right now? Do you have any idea where you're at? Right now, no. At the beginning, of the year, maybe a couple times a year I do, I'm normally between like 19 and 2100.

Yeah, just really low for a lot of activity that you're doing. So you're not too bad. You're probably going to want to bump another 100 to 200 calories and then drop to that 15. And I bet your body responds better to that. So for as much active, if you're getting 8 to 10,000 steps every day and you were training that much and the jobs and that's a lot. And so you were probably just your body is stalled. Here's the thing that when you come out of this, be patient because it takes a little bit time for the body to kind of reset, get healthy again, and then it'll respond.

So what it looks like a lot of times is you'll start to feel better right away as far as like rest and just energy and like mood, all those things will start to improve. And then what will start to happen slowly is strength. You'll start to see strength good in the gym. And then what comes after that is the body change in the results. So just be patient. It takes a minute for the body to kind of reorganize and say, oh, I'm being fed again. oh, this feels good. Oh, here, let me reward you.

You're getting stronger in the gym. And then comes the aesthetic result. So just be just, this is the path. This is what you need to do. Trust the process. And then, but it just know that. Just know that it takes a minute for it all to get going. Don't abandon it and go, oh, my God, this is enough.

I need to start doing more stuff because then you'll just go right back to where you were. Yeah. That's kind of why I reached out because, like I said, I've been trying to do it for 18 months. Obviously getting older. My husband's actually very fit. He goes to the gym frequently. All my kids are sons.

They all like run. They go to the gym. They do all kinds of stuff. And so, you know, I just, I kind of want to, I want to look like I work out. I don't have to obviously be like a beach body competitor. I've had twins. My stomach is a disaster. I understand all that.

I just want to, I want people look at me and look like I take care of myself. Yeah. Have you, have you considered joining our muscle mommy group? We have a group of women that's, and a lot, I'd say, good half of them are menopausal, paramedopazzo going through very, very similar stuff. And it's an incredible community and weekly coaching and help along the way. Yeah, I've thought about it, obviously trying to pay off my kids student loan. We try to be mindful of how much we spend right now.

Yeah, yeah, why don't I get you in there for a month for free? You could, you could bounce after that, but just get some advice. Oh, that would be great. All right. We'll send that to you. Okay. And you're doing good. Yep.

You're doing good, hon. Be kind of yourself. Well, I appreciate you all. I listen to you all on my walks, typically. Yeah, you're doing good, and I really do think that's just too much. So I think within a week or two, you should start to see strength gains, and that's when you know you're moving the right direction. Yeah, I want to be strong as I age.

Good, good, good, good, good. You will. You will. All right, so we're going to send you to MAPS 15 MuscleMami, and then we're going to get you in the MuscleMummy group for 30 days for free. So you get some advice. Thank you so much. You got it. I appreciate it.

You got it. All right, Andrew. I think people need to realize just like, how much all the life stuff affects your body's ability to adapt to exercise. Yeah, yeah, of course. You got to factor that in, but it's hard because it just seems like that's your normal, right? But that's stress. That's right.

And also in the context of age, how low your calories are, that stuff, it just... Hormones, kids, pills. Yeah, it's redlining your engine with no oil in it. gas. It's like it's eventually going to shut down on you. And then that's frustrating because you're still stepping on the gas, hoping to go somewhere and you're not going anywhere. And, and then also then being patient when you start to do the right thing, because the right thing, it takes a minute for that body to reset and get back to where it needs to be to start to show the results. And that what happens is most people hear that advice and it makes sense logically for them,

but then they don't see the change quick enough and then they bail on it. And they go back to old habits. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

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