Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2834: 5 Fitness Influencers Worth Following (And Why Most of Everyone Else is Lying to You)

Episode Date: April 11, 2026

Sal, Adam, and Justin name five fitness influencers they actually trust — and explain exactly why the rest of the space is mostly noise. Then they break down a compelling new study on creatine and anxiety/depression, share the latest on BPC-157 coming back, and go deep on the gray market peptide problem. Plus: a surprisingly heated debate on homeschooling vs. public school, family life tangents, and three live coaching calls covering lower body definition, post-brain-surgery recovery training, and vegan protein quality. Sponsors & Links 🔗 Kion — Pure creatine monohydrate, EAAs, powder or capsule: getKion.com/mindpump — 20% off no code needed 🔗 Crisp Power — 28g protein, high fiber pretzels: crisppower.com/mindpump — use code MINDPUMP10 for 10% off at www.crisppower.com/mindpump 🔗 MAPS Push Pull Legs (NEW) — Men & women's versions, includes at-home dumbbell option. 40% off at mapsppl.com with code PPL 🔗 Seed Probiotics: seed.com/mindpump — use code 20PUMP for a discount 🔗 Mind Pump Fitness Coaching — 1.9 CEUs with NASM certification: mindpumpfitnesscoaching.com Submit a Question Want to be coached live on the show? Submit your question at mplivecaller.com 00:02:19  Top 5 Fitness Influencers Worth Following 00:04:14  Breaking Down Each Influencer: Joe DeFranco 00:08:17  Brett Contreras: Science Meets Real-World Training 00:10:09  Ben Bruno: The Trainer's Trainer 00:13:24  Jordan Syatt & Don Saladino 00:17:03  Why Most Fitness Influencers Are Garbage 00:22:30  Creatine for Anxiety & Depression — New Study 00:27:53  BPC-157 Human Study: One Injection, Six Months of Pain Relief 00:29:49  Gray Market Peptides & Supplement Quality Warning 00:33:59  Niacin Flush Stories & Supplement Experiments 00:38:03  Homeschooling vs. Public School: Data & Discussion 00:47:02  Values, Classroom Controversy & Family Life 00:48:47  Holiday Decorating & Fun Family Stories 00:55:37  Crisp Power Pretzels, 7-Eleven Slurpees & Childhood Snacks 01:02:10  Caller #1 — Jennifer: Pear-Shaped & Seeking Lower Body Definition 01:20:04  Caller #2 — Roger: Son's Recovery from Brain Surgery & Getting Back to Baseball Lifting 01:32:08  Caller #3 — Evan: Vegan Protein Quality & Hitting 210g/Day Find Us 📲 Instagram: @MindPumpMedia 💻 Programs, coaching & more: MindPumpMedia.com Submit a Question! Want to be coached live on the show? Submit your question at mplivecaller.com Find Us 📲 Instagram: @MindPumpMedia 💻 Programs, coaching & more: MindPumpMedia.com      

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump in today's episode. We had four callers call in, and we got to coach them and help them out on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 59 minutes long.

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All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at Mind Pumpstore.com? I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to Mind Pumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. 99.9.9% of fitness influencers on social media are total garbage. It's true. Don't follow them to lead you in the wrong direction.

Yeah, that's pretty true. Okay, so if you were to give the audience five influencers in the fitness space regarding like exercise, science or nutrition, that direction, what are five people they should be following? That's a good question. Okay, so it is true that most. You only get five. You could do that. I'm sure we could go all day long. Yes.

So I'll put some. Give me five that everybody should be following. I'll do some qualifiers, right? So these are, we'll name some people who are really good with the exercise. part of a fitness, right? So not like, like they do good nutrition stuff too, but right people you'd want to follow when it comes to workout style advice. Okay. And although I'll stand by what I said. Most influencers on social media don't promote good advice. Don't do a good job leading people the right way, but there are people who are good

that are out there. So I'll name some. So Joe DeFranco, Brett Contreras, Ben, Ben, Bruno, Jordan Siyat, Don Saladino. Those would be five off the top of my head. I kind of fitness people that give some good information that I would say, give them a follow. I love that. And what, okay, there's some super common themes amongst them, although very different. Yeah. They're all different.

You get some sports specific information there. You get some general pop. You get some like hypertrophy. You know what I find that they all have in common, though, really, really well? Nuance. Yes. Well, okay. Right?

And to go deeper, they all have a lot of experience training a lot of people. And that's why I think they do such a good job. Yeah, which comes with the nuance. That's right, because you're going to have new ones. So like, let's start with the first one I mentioned, which I think was Joe. They're actual trainers. I started with Joe, right, Joe DeFranco. Yeah.

He's been training people for a long time. I think we all looked up to him when we were personal trainers. Yeah, when I was in college. Yeah, I loved his content. And what I like about Joe is he's so good with the nuance. He's so good at explaining why something may be true sometimes but not always. Or that one video, Adam, where somebody was criticizing an athlete for the way that they were being trained and saying, oh, that's why they got injured.

And he did such a great job going in and really breaking down the truth. And he did it in a very, I mean, it made perfect sense. Yeah, you know, these guys all, you know, another thing that I find in common with all of them is all of them were great trainer. before social media came. Good point. Long before social media came, they were already good coaches and trainers. Then social media came and then eventually they were found

and became popular and all for different reasons. They didn't do it to get popular on social media. What a great point. I think a fitness influencer who's media first, trainer second, bad. You know, because you're right. All these people were training people for a long time. And even to take it like to give some credit.

It doesn't necessarily they're bad, just they're not as good. Yeah. I mean, because you could have, you could have came up in the, it's not to say that anybody who's younger who came up in the social media world and they got famous through social media and they, we came down that they can't be a good coach. But everybody that you listed made their bones in coaching people in real life first and was already successful doing that without needing social media. Social media just blew up their. For one's on social media, it's like great information you can receive that sometimes, but they don't have that experience to back it. And like the way to kind of navigate through that when you're troubleshooting. Okay, so since we're talking about these five people that I would consider friends of ours, let's talk about what you like about each of them individually.

Well, so Joe, you know, Joe, he's, he's an OG and he understands especially exercise performance training and nuance around that. And he was talking about things that now, I think we take for granted, that a lot of athletes or athletic trainers utilize. He was big on the sled before people were making that a big deal. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he understands how to apply, you know, explosive style training in the proper context. He understands range of motion in the proper context. And he also communicates it very well. He communicates like a guy you would just talk to.

Yeah. Now, he doesn't talk over your head, even though the dude is. is super intelligent knows of something. I found that interesting that you, because you chose these, I only gave you five to choose from. And some people might be on, oh,

what about someone? We have a lot of other friends that are very intelligent, have their own certifications, you know, and are brilliant. You limited it to five, too. Yeah.

And, and, but I do like the list that you put together for where I'm going with this, is that there's definitely some of our friends that are more science heavy. But one of the things I love about Joe is Joe is brilliant, but then also communicates in a way that the average person can understand and go,

oh, that makes a lot of sense why I do that. And I think that's such a valuable trait. I'm sure I'm a bit biased because I think I lean more in this direction than the science-heavy guy. Like I think communication and getting your clients to apply or change behavior is far more important than can I argue or debate with you about a study that proves me more right. That's right. And Joe has the ability to do both, which is so great, which makes him a superpower. Yeah.

Now, Brett Contreras, speaking science, I think he does a great job with taking science and combining it with his experience. He does a really good job. And one thing I like about Brett is he won't die on a hill. If there's a study or something that kind of proves that maybe his opinion was wrong, So rare to find that. That's right. Or he'll go conduct studies themselves.

Now, this guy became famous popularizing the hip thrust. In fact, he would say he was one of the first people to do this as a strength building, butt building exercise. And I would agree. I never really heard of the hip thrust in the way that he talks about it until he did. And he also does a great job communicating traditional, heavy strength training to women. He does a great job because he's got all these female athletes or these female. male competitors that train under him.

And he's proven like, nah, build muscle gets strong. That's the way to go. Yeah, I mean, you could make a pretty fair argument that women that lift really heavy weights, the majority, talking about, obviously this is an overgenitalization, but a bulk of that movement came from CrossFit and Brett Contreras. Yes, good point. I mean, probably are responsible for a large percentage

of women that are not afraid to lift heavy-ass weight. The other thing, too, about Brett is, of all, he's probably the most science heavy at everybody, right, that you listed, but also communicates in a, in a very simple way, even though he has a very high level understanding of all the science, which makes him also a superpower too, is that he can get in there and argue and debate with the best of them

and has read all the literature and knows most all of it, like the back of his hand, but then also can communicate to the average person to get his point across and help somebody out. So I love that too. And then Ben Bruno. One of my favorites. Yeah, well, first of all, he's got a great personality.

It's hilarious. But he's, of all these, he's like a very much like a train, like he's a, he's like a trainer's trainer. Yeah, he's like a really good trainer who's worked with a lot of everyday people. And you know it when you talk to him because I would say of all these people up here, I probably relate the closest to him because that's what I trained a lot of was just everyday people. Well, most people. The irony, though, about Ben.

is that Ben has trained a lot, but he's also, most of his list is celebrities and athletes. That's right. You've got hard for. He has everything. I think one of the things, why we probably all connect so much to Ben that he really focuses on behavior type stuff and practicality. Yeah, that's true. And he's very much so a realist in like understanding that I've trained enough people

who have tried all the things and understand all the science and all. all that shit doesn't matter if they don't continue to show up every day and do the thing. And from all the years and years and probably close to thousands of people that he's interacted with has distilled it down to this is the stuff that works. I don't give a shit about your study. That proves your way might be a better way in a clinical. He's a master of the application. Right. Right.

In a clinical setting. I know what works with people and I know how to get people results and I know how to keep. And by the way, he'll explain it well. Yeah, oh yeah. He'll say here's why that doesn't work in a real world. Yeah. And he does a good job of that. Because you know he's applied it.

That's what I mean. He's applied it and he's done it. And so, yeah, Ben, Ben's one of my favorite up there for sure. I love that you picked him because very, very relatable, really, very great guy. Also, too, another thing that I think that's important to point out about him. And maybe arguably, I'd put a couple of these other guys in that list, too. Ben is really evolved in his place to a lot of people in fitness, even the experts in the best have these deep rooted insecurities that have propelled them to be these

experts. That is what's driven them to be obsessed with the gym, obsessed with the information, obsessed with all of it. It's what gives them kind of their superpower. Ben is not that guy. Ben is very much so a very normal dude that wants to say. And I think that is so relatable and helpful to the average person who wants to stay in shape. And so that to me, he's very evolved as a coach and trainer. Obviously, probably criticized by peers that are obsessed with the way they look or the PRs that they're doing. He don't give a shit.

And he's, that's what I mean. Super high performance based or super aesthetic base. He's just, yeah. He, again, too, and I think a lot of the best coaches, well, the most of the coaches I know were the struggling athlete or the struggling person that, like, really wanted to figure it out and, like, worked really hard to get to that point.

And it's like, they realize that their real gift is coach. That's one of the things I like about Ben, that's what I meant. Like, when he communicates, I think his content is so good for everyday people trying to get fit. Like, everyday people trying to get fit, watches stuff,

it's going to be very valuable to you. That's just the way he communicates, which is good. Jordan Siat, we got him next. He's great. He's great. I think he's got great. Now, he is actually really good at social media,

but he was, again, a trainer way before. He just... Well, he got good because, He was Gary Vee's coach. That's right. So he got the opportunity to train Gary Vee before anybody knew who he was. And Gary Vee spig game to him on the social media side. And then he got good at that.

But he was already a good coach. He is a great coach. He's also a coach of coaches. So it's good for trainers to follow Jordan. And he has a community, I think, of trainers, right? That he works with. Yeah, his inner circle. And he does a great job of communicating, you know, complicated, you know, stuff

into very simple terms. Again, that's a theme that you're going to see with all these guys. Yeah. He's also a great guy. And he's a very hardworking, very honest, very hardworking

trainer, probably one of the hardest people working trainers that I've met in this space. Also, I put him in that category with Ben Bruno too, very evolved with, like, he's been super, you know, ripped and strong as shit.

Like, he's done the thing. Like, he's done crazy feats, but he doesn't live in that space. like he cares more about being a father and healthy and balanced and helping people and, you know, enjoying life and the nice thing. And so I think that does a really good job of communicating overall health and fitness and cutting through a lot of the bullshit that's out there. And also well read too. Like he knows his studies. He knows the science.

He's very aware of that. But then communicates fitness in a very simple way that the average person can adopt it and be consistent with it. And then we got Don, Don Saladino. Right guy. He's got such a great attitude of service. This is what got him initially. He's also a great trainer, of course. But what got him so popular in the celebrity world is that they felt comfortable with

him because it didn't look like he was looking for anything back from them. But also communicates fitness so well, so accurately, so in such applicable ways, appropriate ways that most people could take from. Also just a great guy when you meet him. Also a very hardworking guy. but just again deserves to be on this list Maybe

Super likable, yeah Maybe the most experience out of everybody on the list of training people Him and Joe Joe's got to be Joe for sure Yeah Don's up there

I mean I don't know though Joe does it How long has Don been doing it? Don still trains a lot of clients Oh yeah He's Does Joe still train the volume of clients That Don does?

That's a good question That's why I think He has a lot of coaches Because Joe's been doing it A little bit longer Right But I don't think Joe trains as many one-on-one clients.

I think that's not the main business is. No, but Dawn still does. Don still trains a lot of clients one-on-one. And so, arguably, maybe the most hours of one-on-one with people. That's tough. Joe's been doing it for a long time. He's been training people

since the 90s. It's been, is Joe. And so, and Don is, when did Don start? Is he R.H? Or is he? Is he younger. Don't know. Don's older. Don's older. He looks good. He looks good. He's your, he's your, he's older than me. He might have started in the 90s as well. It's a good, it's a good, yeah, yeah. You're right. They're probably both up there. Yeah. I mean, regardless of who's a little more or less, my point is that you're both just really, you're talking about two of the most experienced one-on-one

coaches. I would say Joe a little heavier and more experience in the, in the sports performance Yeah, for sure. Don, a little more experienced in the average person. And so I think depending on your cup of tea, I mean, all five are must follows. If you don't follow them, you have to be following them. I think their content, the information they provide. It's real important, too, I mean, one of the reasons why fitness influencers are so terrible for the most part, besides the fact that the information they often communicate is either wrong or not needed to be communicated. So sometimes we get a fitness influencer who communicates good information, a study, but they're, but they're communicating something that's just going to confuse people and misdirect people.

And so they just don't have the experience to know, like, this isn't something I should sell because it actually doesn't matter. In fact, all it's going to do is turn people away. But the other reason is that fitness is so body obsessed. It's so obsessive about how you look. And it's kind of got this unhealthy underpinning that it follows. Following even people with good information who sell things in that way can kind of make things not good. And so the fitness space in general and social media can be that way. I didn't even think.

If you follow the right people, then it's very positive. I didn't think about that either. That is common with all five of these guys, too. Like, none of them use their physique to sell. Not their physique. No. Brett will show his women that he trains, but that's what he does. Yeah, but it's him and his jorts and teacher.

He's not, I'm saying. He's like, I mean, I think he's a niche. Yeah, I think when he had a certain milestone age, I think he presented like this is where he's at his age. You know, one thing I like about Brett, because he'll have the, you know, the booty model stuff on his, because that's what he trains. He trains a lot of these women that compete.

But he's always showing how strong they are. He's always showing, like, the traditional strength training. So he puts a, like, a good positive point with it because he knows how to train people. He's breaking down the exercises. That's right. Being very specific with it. That's right. Yeah.

That's right. That's right. But the point you made Adam, I think is so, I didn't even think of that. Like, they were all training people for a while. First. Before, first. Yeah. They were all, that's what they did.

This was their profession. They weren't fitness influencers, their trainers. No. Yeah. That just so happened to come along with social media. I didn't name any YouTube stars. I think that's got to be one of the hardest things for the younger. If you're, you know, younger than, say, 40, so 35 or even and younger and you find yourself

looking for content or for good people on Instagram. to be able to discern between, you know, were these people good before Instagram came out, you know, like that? And like, did they get good, not because they're good at making, because what makes you good on Instagram is not necessarily what makes you a good coach.

100%. It does, you can be very good on Instagram and be a horrible coach. Oh, yes. But if you were a great coach first, and then you happen to be a decent or famous on it. Some of them aren't even that. I'm trying to think who were the,

what's still, Doug, can you pull up the following on everybody right now? I know Siet, I believe Scyot's over a million. I don't think Ben is over a million. I don't know if Brett is... Tell me what the following is on all of them. I'm curious to where they're all out. I think so... Who's got the lowest following?

It would be interesting because we were just arguing that Joe... We were arguing that Joe and Don have the most experience. Joe DeFranco, 184,000 followers. Okay, so not crazy. No, no, not at all. Brett's probably got a huge following. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Don Saladino, let's see. He's at 428,000. Oh, yeah. So he's not at a million. Brett, 1.7. He's got a huge one. Yeah. Ben Bruno.

And I bet the reason why Brett is, because he's got a lot of... So Ben Bruin on half a million, so 500,000. Yeah. So let's see, Jordan. Jordan's over a million, I think. Is he? Jordan's a little higher. It's your best one out of social media.

Oh, yeah, he's... Where's he at? I can't even find him. Oh, there he is. One point one. So Brett, a little bit more. Yeah. And then what's Dawn at?

I bet. I think Don's the lowest. Is he? Oh, no, he's not. 428, you said? Yeah, 428. And what was Joe? Joe is only 187.

Wow. How funny is that? We're giving probably Joe some of the most flowers. Yeah. And Joe is, I mean, like he's been in the game the longest of all of them for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But I mean, they're all good. They all do a great job. And it's funny, too, because we'll meet people and we'll talk with them. And, you know, when you have a lot of experience as a coach, you can hear it when someone else starts to talk and answer questions. And you go, okay, this person. Yeah. I remember Brett Contreras, we first had him on the podcast. I didn't know a ton about him except for what he was known for.

And we started talking right out the gate. He's a science guy, right? But right out the gates as he's talking, I'm like, oh, he's trained a lot of people. Oh, you know why? I remember that conversation. Every time we challenge him or ask him a question that we are trying to see where he stands and so that he always started it with depends. It depends.

Well, yeah. There was no, there was always nuance to the answer. And I think that's what all these guys do such a good job is they understand that. you know, there's, there's an exception to almost every rule. And by the way, I know someone will do this whenever we talk about people we really like or something like that, you, if you sift through. You guys should do this. Well, no, they'll sift through their content and find something that we don't say exactly the same or we don't say on it. It's like, you're going to find amongst even all five of these that some of them might communicate something else a little different.

It doesn't make one guy right or wrong. It's like, but I'd say about 99% of all of our. fitness philosophy is aligned. I don't think. Well, what's true is true. Yeah, exactly. I think that's, there might be some different strategies

that each of us have because of our backgrounds, but for the most part, I think, agree with almost everything that guys talk about. All right, I'm going to talk about a crate team. I know we talk about them all the time,

but did you get this thing I sent over to you? Did you find this study on it? So I found the study, it's not a public, I can't pull up the actual study, but I found others like it that support it. But check out this study. This was a 2003,

randomized control pilot study were women with major depressive disorder. So these were women with depressive disorder. They were given and a core more, they had anxiety as well. So they had this major depressive disorder and they also had anxiety. Okay. And they give them five grams of creatine a day. So that's it. Normal serving, not the 15 grams that you see in some of these studies for brain health.

Five grams of creatine a day. Within the first week, there was a 50% decrease in anxiety. That's crazy. Mm-hmm. Some with some sources claiming up to 95% by the end of the study. Here's a deal. Anxiety is rough. Why is, I saw with that, why would creatine make that, at a 5 gram dose, make that much of a difference on anxiety and depression?

If your depression and anxiety is a result of poor energy production. Energy and your brain, right? That's right. Or just in your body overall, right? If it's a product of poor energy metabolism or just not being able to create enough energy for whatever reason, then increasing ATP would make you feel a lot better. Definitely. And anxiety can be that. You can get anxiety from nutrient deficiencies as well.

So you'll see sometimes people with vitamin D deficiency. Sure. But creatine, that's not the only study, by the way. In 2012, there was a double blind study with 52 women. again with this depressive disorder. Adding creatine to their SSRI led to faster and greater reduction in depression compared to just the SSRI. So cratine in combination with the SSRI was like better, much better, much faster reduction in depression.

There was another study with 100 adults with depression, 5 grams of creatine a day plus cognitive behavioral therapy reduced depression scores more than just the cognitive behavioral therapy by itself. There's meta analysis that are done this on this that discuss its potential as an adjuvant, excuse me, adjunctive benefits for depression. So in combination with other therapies, it's a good idea. It's good for you. What's great about this is then a drug.

I can't imagine then how, what the result would be for someone who is battling anxiety and depression. If they, and they didn't take creatine, they all of a sudden started supplementing with five to 15 grams of creatine a day and started strength training two to three times a week. Well, now you got exercise. Because we already know what exercise does for that category. Coupled with creatine, it has to be. Here's what I'll have.

And now here's something else. And Doug, if you can look this up, look up the rate of anxiety with vegans versus omnivores. So I know that vegans will suffer from higher rates of anxiety than omnivores when the diets are somewhat healthy. I wonder if that's if that's creating because you see these pretty dramatic improvements in in health with especially with vegans and crating because they're not getting any from from dietary you know sources yeah so yeah I don't think this is what you're looking for no there's more there are so there are other studies that so meta analysis will show that higher nutrient deficiencies and anxiety and depression yeah so you have

have to look at healthy versus healthy, by the way, not vegans versus garbage. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So, but yeah, creatine, just one of those. If you have better energy production of the body, you tend to feel better. Yeah. I mean, logically, that makes sense.

I just find that percentage is profound. Yeah. I mean, that's a big difference to report within a week's time. You know what's cool about this? It's also good for you. It's extremely safe. So it's healthy. It's good longevity support.

Easy to take. it's inexpensive. Yeah, inexpensive, easy to take. Yeah, Keon, our partners, Kion have pure creatine, monohydrate, I think, in capsules and just powder. You can just try it. Yeah. Try it for 30 days and see if you notice an improvement.

Well, it seems a lot like the conversation we had about, like, mitochondrial health and, like, why that's popping up so much. Yeah, it's very much connected. And that whole energy production system is like, you know, if you can get that back on track, like, how many things we could resolve as a result. I have a friend. friend of mine who is a nurse. And so she does those crating.

You know nurses sometimes? Well, you know, your wife did this. These crazy schedules. Yeah. Will they work overnight or whatever and then try to readjust? And it's just brutal. It's brutal. Oh, yeah.

Graveyard shifts. She started taking creatine. She's like, I feel way better. Yeah. Like way better. My mental focus is better. I don't feel so foggy. I don't feel so burnt out.

And she's just taking 10 around today. Yeah. What was that study that came out about like, you know, the lack of sleep and how it benefited. Yes, 20 grams. Yeah, yeah. You had really bad sleep. 20 grams of creatine erased the cognitive deficits that came from it. It was crazy.

Which is super wild. That's nice, dude. I know. Isn't that cool? No, that's super cool. I love that. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, a BPC study.

I got a BPC study for you guys. BPC 157. It's back, right? Like in circulation? It looks like they're going to reverse the, they're definitely going to reverse the restrictions. So BPC 157 will be, yeah. So they, gave 12 patients. This is a human study. Twelve patients, a single injection of one injection of BPC 157

in their knee. Okay. So these had people had chronic knee pain. This is osteoarthritis, meniscus tears, ligament sprains. So people who had just chronic knee pain, one injection, 11 out of 12 of them, so that's the majority of them, had pain relief, significant pain relief that lasted six months to a year. with one shot. Every one of them had failed standard treatment for over a year. That's wild, dude. Yeah, dude. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. That's wild. I know. Is it officially back? Do you know if it's back with like MP hormones and stuff? Do you know? They have pentadeca argonate, which is the same thing. Yeah.

But I know that they're getting. I wonder. I know. I know. I know Phil. I know Phil was on the phone with Katrina. I overheard the conversation. And I want to say there was five.

five peptides that came back that were... That was one of them. And I'm assuming that that means they've got it ready to go now. I don't know if that was like it's going to. But I know he was celebrating that news with her, which was a big deal. I forgot what the other four were, but there were some other big ones too.

So the thing about peptides is that they're so popular now. Yeah. And you can go online and get them as research chemicals. And this is what a lot of people are doing. is they're going online. They're not getting them from FDA regulated compound pharmacies. A bit of a crap shoot. And, you know, some of them may be good.

Some of them may not. Some of them might be something bad. I've actually seen some third-party testing. It's a little scary. On some of that stuff, again, you're injecting in your body. You might want to go the FDA compound lab, you know, compounding pharmacy, I should say, route with a doctor. That's what we have at nphorhormones.com.

It's like, this is a real medical professional. and these are real compounding pharmacies. It's not a, quote unquote, research chemical. What percentage of people do you think go gray market? A lot. Really? It's a huge market, bro. It's a huge market.

It's so funny to work around. I mean, even like the sub-I remember as a trainer early on, like with my clients, when I tell them to go get like a certain protein powder or this or that and... Come back with a Walmart, bro. Yeah, yeah. What are you doing? Oh, it was half the price. It's like, yeah, it's probably half the price.

It's probably half the shit in there, too. A quarter of it even. Like, and this is stuff that you're ingesting. This is stuff you're injecting. It's like, why would you risk? Quality matters, yeah. This is just one of those things I, I don't know, save on your grocery bill or your electric bill or save on something else.

I mean, I get saving money. I can respect that, you know? But the thing that you end up ingesting or injecting into your body, probably not the thing you... Yeah, I wouldn't skimp out on that. Should roll the dice on. time I see us, every time I see an investigative, uh, report on supplements. We're not even talking about peptides right now.

Okay. Supplements. Every time I see an article, I go, oh, God, here we go. Because they'll take supplements. They'll take third parties, uh, test them all. And like a majority of them come back, like, not good. Yeah. Supplements.

At least 80% of them. You're like, oh, and then you're bummed. You know? Super bummed, dude. Well, it's, it's because it's such an easy cash grab because that. Nobody checks. If you do it, because nobody checks, if you put just whatever in it, you can get away with it and you can sell it for really expensive for, and cost you nothing to bill or make. So, you know, if you make a good run for six months to a year before you get caught, it's a slap on the wrist and you made a bunch of money.

Yeah. So, of course, I mean, it's so dirty that there's companies that do this and they just change their branding and do it again. Yeah, I don't. No, I'm serious. It's like, that's, yeah, it's not, there's not like serious ramifications for this. It's like a, yeah, exactly. Shredd's rebranded, came, came right back and did something else. Yeah. So these companies do that.

They, they run as long as they can and they sell, they sell until somebody decides, somebody else decides to pay for a third-party test just to call them out, right? Yeah. And then it's like, oh, you caught us. And then, oh, we'll just start a whole new brand, do it all, do the hustle all over again. And it's just like, dude, don't, I mean, those. Those are the things I don't know that you don't go skimp on, I don't feel like. No, dude. Spend for the extra.

And that's why it's expensive. Why the good supplements are expensive is because they're paying to have all that stuff done. They're paying themselves. And margins on supplements, I mean, depending on the supplement, but they're typically not that good, especially the common ones. Like protein powder, margins suck. Yeah, creatine sucks. Creatine sucks. Because they're super popular.

All your, all your major vitamins. Yeah. You know, those are all, they suck. There's not, you're not making a lot of, you're not making huge margins off of that. The only way you're making huge margins. margins if it's garbage in there. If you fill a bunch of, you know, pills with water, then you can make a bunch of money. But if you don't, my favorite are when they take, like, you know, like the libido boosting

pills and like 80% of them actually have. Like Viagra is actually in there. Yeah, dude, like Viagra in them. It's like one out of every like 20 pills or something. Yeah. Hey, by the way, you know what's funny. You know what's funny about that is that that definitely didn't stop anyone from buy them?

No. No. Because that's like, that's like, hey, did you guys know those muscles? building pills, like five out of ten of them had steroids. People are cool. Like, whoa. I just keep taking it. No, that's why they use things like that, like niacin. Like, they use supplements and they use things, materials that make people feel something. Do you remember the first time you took a big dose of niacin? Yes. Oh, my gosh. I do. Did you get sweating my eyes off, sitting in my bed? Bro, I read that niacin was good. Turn my whole face red like a tomato.

Dude. I was working, I was managing Santa Teresa and I read some stupid article about. about niacin and blood flow and this, that, and the other. So I'm like, that's cheap, dude. I'll buy, you know, I'll take anything because I did. I took a big old dose of niacin, bro. 40 minutes later, I'm giving a tour of the gym. And I'm just, and the lady's looking at me kind of like funny. She's like, are you okay?

And I look in the mirror. And it looked like I had a massive sunburn. My whole, everything was super red. It's so funny. I was like, what does that happen? I think you're the only person I've ever met who's actually been able to take, like, each component from the supplement, buy them all individually, put it. together.

And like, it's funny to me. I love it because it's like you're like this mad, you know, experimental scientist back of the day. Doing all that stuff. You, for sure, you win the word on all.

Although I definitely did a lot of stuff like that. That's, I think why I'm so jaded is because I did so much stuff that didn't work. Yeah. And so I'm like, now I'm just like, it takes a lot to convince me that it's worth me spending any money on anything. It's like most stuff is,

I mean, I did one of those, I did one of those videos of our social media team, did. And I think it was, I think Eli had me rate, it was Eli or Danny had me rate like zero to five for, I think, building muscle. And I gave supplements a zero, you know? Oh my God. Well, because it was of the list you had to pick. Where's it? Yeah, yeah, zero to five. It's like food, lifting weight. Yeah, rats. Yeah, it was always thing. It was just like, no, of course. Was that fall in line. Yeah. It's just at the bottom. And then people were like, what about creatine?

I'm like, well, creatine's great, but it's not moving the needle like these other things are going to move the needle. You take all the creatine you want for building muscle, not get a good night's rest and not work out. You're going to get shit. It's like, you're taking a bunch of kindergartners and you're like, who's the strongest kindergartner? That's creatine. Of all the supplements, it's the best. Yeah. We're dealing with supplements here, you guys.

Yeah. A lot of them don't do my mind. That's what you have to understand. And it doesn't mean that I, like, well, I thought you said that. I was like, no, I mean, creatine is the greatest supplement. It's amazing. But it's like, if you give me a list of things. it's not let's put this way

my family member comes to me and they're Adam give me the things I need to do to go build muscle right now and I give them the list like it just it doesn't even it doesn't crack the top five I'm not it's not my life but I will I will say this

for some cases there's certain nutrients if you have a nutrient efficiency or if you're one of those people oh of course if you're one of those people that you're just not making enough ATP it's an it's an inexpensive way to see does this help me is this going to ask you? Well that's the new one you have to get to the point

where you're doing all the right things and then something still isn't working. Right. Okay, now I'm investing in this. Or if like you have, I mean, you've got to expend all income then 100% than by all means, you know, you use and try and do all those things like that.

But it's like, you know, I've never had somebody come to me and we weren't building muscle. We were doing something. And it was because I didn't give them a supplement. It wasn't, it was something like that. I was like, oh my God, I forgot that. I forgot that. You know who was really fun for me to train with supplements?

Doug. Yeah. Yeah. He'll do what he'll. Yeah. Doug love supplements. So I would just, hey, try this.

Like, okay. You know why? Because Doug's like you and where he's, he's good about, he's good about doing all the things. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm terrible about that.

Like, it's so hard, like, you know, I need someone to follow me around and like, I can do one at a time. Like, you'll just do the one thing. Yeah.

I don't take anything. Like, none of it, none of it all the ones. I don't know. It's just like, just, I want to see if this is actually

We can do something. And I don't care. I should just start feeding. That's what I should do. I should be in charge of you guys as supplements. I mean, I'm good if you, if you give it to me.

I mean, that's why I've done it before. That's why I've left. That's why my thing looks like a mess over here of all these pill bottles. So that's the only way I'll take it. Is I look over at you. It's accessible.

Are you looking at me? I look at you. I look at you. I got, I got to take those supplements. Sal told me to take. You know, I'm going to take a left.

So I pulled up some. Have you guys seen that the studies that came out, have been coming out on homeschooling? No. You guys seen them? Like new stuff? So they just came out with some testing and some data on homeschool kids.

Homeschool kids outperform their public school peers in math, science, history, English, the SAT, and the ACT. They basically demolish them on all categories. And then I looked up the popularity of homeschooling through the years. In 1970, there were only 13,000 kids that were homeschooled. 1990, 850,000, 2,000, 1.5 million, 2020, 5 million. Whoa. It's blowing up. Exploded.

And 2020, I bet jumped because of COVID. Of course. A lot of parents are like, okay, I see what's going on here. Watch the Zoom. You're like, I could do that. Yeah. But yeah, these kids generally outperform their peers. I was just talking to these kids that were homeschooled over the weekend.

And it was interesting because they're talking about their subjects that they study, too. And it's like, okay, we're learning Latin. We're learning logic. And I was like, wait a minute, logic. Like, what does that entail? What's the curriculum entail for logic? And it's like, they'll give them these certain problems, but it's like they have to articulate the entire process

of how they got to that conclusion. And I'm just like, wow. Like, you would never, you would never get that in a public school. What are some of the bias that come with that, though? That you have to be fair, right? Because the type of person who decides, they're going to take on a responsibility like homeschooling your kid

is already a different person. That's right. It's not the average person. This is typically a parent that's very involved. Very. You're right. You have to be.

And so there's advantages. Small classroom. All right. Although a lot of homeschool kids do pods and stuff like still small classroom. And here's another, this is a big advantage. My wife just did this this morning. I just talked to her this morning

because she's just going into new curriculum with my five-year-old. And my five-year-old, a good parent, right, a mom or a dad knows what's most important for their kid to learn. Okay, here's an example. My son is doing these exercises where he has to learn how to listen, pay attention, and follow order. So she'll read a paragraph, and then he'll have to go and try and remember every step. So it'll say, okay, first thing you're going to do is underline the dog. Then you're going to write an A at the top of the page.

Then you're going to use a red crayon circle. And so it's like a bunch of steps when she's done, he has to go through and try and remember everything. So it's an exercise on paying attention. But my wife knows that my son, the thing that he definitely needs to work on the most is not being a perfectionist. She always got this thing where if he messes up, he beats himself up. He really beats himself up. Yeah. So she knows that.

So when he does it and he does a bunch of things wrong because she's mom and she knows, instead of saying here's what you did wrong, here's fix that. Yeah. She's like, oh, no, let's move to the next one. Let's try it again. Yeah. Because she knows him. Yeah.

A teacher might not have this ability because, A, you're not mom. Well, yeah, you're not going to get that kind of individualized custom. That's right. Yeah. And you're managing 30. Adjustments. That's right. Yeah.

And so she's able to say, hey, this is the most important. In fact, I like that he's learning how to pay attention. But what's really important is I want him to not be a perfectionist because that can cause less. So my theory is tied more to what I said than you. and you admit it, which is what I think is that I think that obviously the parents at home school are far more involved with the kids. And I think that if I can be as involved with my kid with the professional of a teacher, like, leading the way, it's like this beautiful. Like, I'll go heads up with a kid getting homeschooled with my son because of the attention that he gets and the leadership that he's getting with school paired with the amount of attention that my wife and I give that kid. Now, take homeschooling kids and put them against all schools and so like that.

Like, oh, I wouldn't take that. I'd take the bed on the homeschool kids all day long. But I would imagine a kid if you teased out all the parents that are completely disconnected from their kids' schoolwork and involvement and all that and don't say. Not a day goes by that Katrina, I or both Katrina and I spend at least an hour plus with Max on part of his school stuff. It were our, his school requires it. We have to sign off that we went through the packet.

We did all the things. And the kids in kindergarten. Okay. So we're not even into the upper grades. So with, and I, and they teach him stuff that I'm like, oh, wow, that's so great. I wouldn't have thought to do that. So. I think you're always going to do better when you care.

Yeah. And you pay attention for sure. The crux of it all. But that's my point. He's like, I would love to see the comparison if you teased out all the parents that do not are not involved. And then you put homeschool heads up against parents that are involved that are also in it. So where the homeschool kids, and there aren't specific studies, but there are studies that move in that direction. And so we don't have a direct one. So it's hard to say.

I think that's the biggest factor. I agree with you. I think the biggest factor is how much a parent cares and how much they're involved. But what you find with homeschool kids is the odds that they follow their parents' values are significant. significantly higher across the board. That they, yeah, and I think it's like, here's a thing. Like, you can be very involved with your kid, but there's still a way for six hours being taught by someone else. That's right. And you're rolling the dice on what values that they're giving to the kid.

Yeah. So if you're homeschooling your kid and you're definitely putting them in things, you're not just like keeping them at home all the time. That's a myth. Right. A lot of people think homeschool means they're just with me all the time. That's not true. But they're with you way more than the typical kid. who goes off for a long time.

I mean, six hours or five hours or seven hours in school. It's interesting. When you talk to homeschool parents are really successful at it, ask them, how much time you actually spend on education every day? It's like two hours, an hour. Yeah. Like, wait a minute, what? And your kid, like, went to college and is crushing.

And how did you get through all that stuff? Yeah, yeah. Didn't need to spend six hours doing all that stuff. I always wonder, too, like, and Jessica would be great to. My cousin would be great to talk to because they both, obviously. I think your cousin's the best person to talk to because she's done. done it for so long. So long.

We're so new to it. Yeah. And so many kids. And so many kids. Because the part that, and I've never really asked for this that I find is, and maybe Max is because he's at a young age. But he is, when he's in the classroom setting, he's so much more likely to sit down and do the work or do a thing that when he's with mom and dad, it takes more of an effort for

him to buy in to doing that. And so there's also the power of you and your peers are all sitting down. And there's like, and they have a very. structure to all that versus me trying to get him to do certain things. It's like working at home remote. Right. It's a very similar aspect because yeah, there

are those clear distinctions. It's like you know, we're okay, but now we're family and we're hanging and we're you know, to have that kind of clear split you know, there could be some bleed over. But yeah, I know. It's interesting too because it's like if and I feel like the

passion has to come through as well. Like if that's, you know, from the parent that's actually, you know, providing it, because you can get that kind of passion from a really good invested teacher. Yeah. That actually very knowledgeable, but like pays that kind of attention. That's how I know I couldn't do it. It's hell of work.

You know, it's just that's really what requires. It is hell of work. Let's be honest. Let's all be honest, straight up. When you have little kids, it's a nice break oftentimes to say, okay, go to school and outsource that. Yeah. I get some time to myself.

I get some time to clean the house. I get some time. like if you're if you're it's like you're on all the time it's a big ass commitment I don't think it's for everybody for sure yeah I wouldn't be able to do if it was on me yeah uh I would definitely I know we wrestle with that yeah as much as I value it I wouldn't be able to do it yeah no I mean I I mean I've said to Katrina before like I mean I would like for us to do it but it's like man I could it would be I couldn't do it you know what I'm saying and she wasn't motivated to really want to do that because there is there's a huge there's man it's a nice to

have, that's why it's easy for us to be involved in parents. It's because I've only got to be involved in an hour after school, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's not hard for me. That's not hard for me to pick up with it. Yeah, to pick, exactly, to talk to my teacher, his teacher and go like, where is he going, where is he doing well? And I mean, we go through all his stuff. It's like, where he's, where he's lagging behind or where he's struggling or where he's excelling. And it's like, okay, cool, we can focus on this at home. And then we compliment all their hard work that they're doing. And it's like, okay, I could do that. I got that all day. But asked me to do that for six hours in the day and then transition over to like parenting home and value dad,

which is different than school dad, I guess. That would be that crazy part too is that and I see this more of public schools and depending on where you're at, but oftentimes like you look at what they teach your kids like from a values perspective and you're like, man, I don't, that's not what I agree with. Like what do you guys teaching our kids right now? What are you doing? I've seen so many stories of parents going to battle with schools over, uh, certain things that they're educating their kids are.

It's weird what people feel compelled, like, ideologically that they have to insert and inject. And you're just like, you know, instead of sticking with the curriculum. And so, like, it just got, it muddied the waters a lot in the education system that I've found. And so it's, it's been rough, you know, over the last few years. It needs to be disrupted big time. Well, that's a part that I think, right now I'm good. I feel very, very confident in the direction they're going. Like, how will I handle being faced with something like that?

right like what what what will i do if hold them out right well yeah no i mean that's exactly how i i talked to some parents i told you guys this last time that they're they were in a classroom and one of the kids uh in the classroom identified as a cat and everybody went along with it yeah and they're like no we're taking our kid out what are you guys doing yeah it seems like an urban legend you know but i've heard this a couple different examples of that yes it might even be the same same kids we're in the same area yeah dude like what are you guys doing yeah oh we want them to feel comfortable. No, dude, what are you doing? Sounds made up, but

it's like what the hell's going on? Crazy. Yeah, and then you as a parent, you guys said they're explaining that back home. Some people really like Halloween. You're around. You said Halloween. You brought up holidays right now. My poor wife when she's battling right now. So my son loves to decorate

for the holidays, right? You guys have known that forever with Halloween and Christmas. Those are the big ones, Right. But Katrina, I don't know if you've ever been to our house. We do. She does everything. St. Patrick's Day, Easter.

Oh, that's fine. So she does like little decorations to the house. She has a couple of vases that she always changes. And she's got out every, every holiday through the whole year planned out. But we only go crazy for Christmas and Halloween because those are like month long decorations. Sure. But he's learned that, you know, that we do decorate for St. And we put all the stuff out for St. Patrick's Day with the gold and do the whole thing and Easter.

And yeah. But he's getting upset at Katrina that we don't have enough decorations for Easter. And Katrina's like, this isn't, this isn't nothing. No, but he wants to all. Well, it's an outside holiday. Why do we not have decorations outside? That's his argument right now. He's asking you all the other family.

Who's the big bunny? Yeah. So poor Katrina right now is like trying to solve this. Like, I don't know what to do with this kid right now because he wants to decorate. You got Easter and then what, sink what? Well, we got. So we had. What's like?

You know you guys It's so racist, Brian. You know what are you talking about, bro? It's so racist. That's the hall of the hall of them. You guys decorate for something in a while? Yeah. No, we does, we had St. Patty's Day.

We just did. And then we did the whole, and we did the whole, you know, and this is what she gets for going over the top, you know, and doing the whole house up and making it look like the Leprecons came in and destroyed it and pissed in our toilet and left away. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She puts her footprints on the, on the seat. Oh, she goes all out.

Oh, yeah. turns the toilet water green. Oh my God. And then writes a note, ha, ha, I got away. And then she steals the gold. That's great. Like, nobody does that.

Like, I told you guys way back, like I dressed up as a leprechaun going to school. So that was like, you know, the level like we went in my house. Yeah. Oh, that's sick.

This is my favorite story. Because nobody dresses up on. I'll say that next day. I'm just like casually throwing that out there. You were the only one in the entire school. Lepercon hat, dude, buckle. How old are you?

Like tight. Uh, dude. It's a fourth grade, dude. Maybe, maybe third grade, actually. So you showed up,

your mom dressed you up like a leprecha? Yes. Dropped you off at school. Drop me out. Hey, no, no, I was on the bus.

Everybody. I can't believe my friends didn't just completely roast me, did. But, I mean, you're so young that like, oh, you know,

they thought it was cool. You didn't get pinched. That's what shirt. I didn't get pinched. And that's back when I, you know, I thought I could do this little Irish jig. And so.

You just blessed it out? I swear to God. Other teachers pulled me in their class, and I just did it. Irish jig in front of the whole school. Look, kids, we have a leper girl here today. And you'd think, right? Like, I wouldn't have this fear of, like, speaking in public, you know? How many letters did you get from girls that day were like, hey, do you like me?

Yes or no? I don't even remember. I was, like, looking back, I'm so, it's so embarrassing. Like, it's like, whoa, dude, I can't believe. I got talked into that. I bet if we let Max, he probably would do something like that. show up by himself? I would not be surprised

if we got an outfit for him to wear he'd want to wear it to school. He would probably do that. That's hilarious, dude. I mean, he loves, the dressing up for birthday's homeless. Because my kids love this.

He might, I don't know, he's not too old for this. My kids, well, no, they love, like, themed pajamas. Oh, yeah. And so my, and my three-year-old's convinced

whatever she wears, she gets the powers of that. So we got her incredible whole pajamas. We got Spider-Man pajamas, and then here's the best one. You guys ready for this? Yeah. someone gifted us Christian pajamas that said like Jesus on him yeah so she runs out of a room

it's not a superhero just Jesus right yeah she runs I have Jesus power he's got powers she start walking on like have the most power yeah so she's like she's got Jesus power yeah so in our house quick you have water he turned out to wine real quick the luxury you're forgiven unless you the the big luxury is if we allow him to stay in pajamas because if it's always up to him he'd wear pajamas all day long so when he goes over to nana's house we normally end up picking him up in the afternoon or the next day and he's still in his pajamas is all day long he would yeah if he could wear pajamas all day he'd wear pajamas all day and swim naked that's his thing that's like wow and so that's like hey we can't always son dude yeah

he's so it's so weird how similar he used to you that's like 100% dude little mini adam dude that's funny hello hey you guys by the way i got to tell you guys do you know who eats all the crisp power. Who's responsible for that? Who eats them all? We thought it was the trainers. No, it's done. The little leprechaun.

Listen. The little leprecha. We're on to you, Doug. Hey, every time, when we're done with the show, every time. And sometimes I'll hang out just a little bit. He's got,

you got a bag in there, don't you? Not at the moment. I ate all those. What are you? Okay, what's your favorite? You just brush them. What's your favorite? The Flamen ones.

I do like those too. Those are good. Yeah. I like them. And the everything ones. I like those. I like those too. Just,

Every day, and I'll be in here doing something, and I'll hear, I need some of that afternoon protein, you know, it's a little bit of a pick-me-up. I mean, maybe the, maybe the greatest, maybe the greatest hack yet, though, when you think about it, because what other, what other carb snack has got that much protein?

Well, it's not that high in carbs, to be on it. It's got fiber. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? The carb-based snack. Yeah, yeah. It's like a carb-based snack. I mean, what would you call pretzels otherwise?

Yeah, yeah. You would consider it that. So that's, that's my point. Like, like, What other carb type of snack that is high protein, low carb, like that you... I can't think of me. Let me think. Beef jerky, dried chips like they do?

Oh, yeah. The chip... How much fibers in that? Pork rinds or something? So 10 grams of fiber. Yeah, bro. Hey, listen, 28 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber. I know.

It's so good. Yeah. Only... Yeah, it's so good. Low calorie. Yeah. So good. Yeah.

Yeah, they did a good job. That, hey, by the way, that company, it's already blown up. Oh, it's huge. That's going to be. They're already, I think, are they in Costco now? I thought I saw there on Costco Target. I did see it somewhere that, I think it was Costco, yeah. Yeah, Costco, Wegmans, Hyvey, the vitamin shop.

They, they, they blew up fast. Not in this local area, but I'm sure someplace is kind of thing. Yeah, they blew up fast. But I'm telling you guys right now, he'll cry, every day, he has a bag over there. I have a bag almost every day. Do you really? Yeah, no, it's such a great easy snack. It's high protein.

Yeah. When can you eat, like I said, when can you eat a salty, chippy-like snack? and get 20-something grams. I know other brands have come out with, like, protein chips, but they're not as high of protein as that. Yeah. They're not as high.

It's weird. And they're nowhere near as good either. Yeah, how it, like, tastes like that. And it's like light and crunchy. You know what I saw a video? Just made me think of. Have you guys, ever done this? Maybe Justin, you have.

You did the most construction. And you guys eat the most. Did you do the most craft? Did you do the most construction? You did more than us. I did a lot. Yeah. Yeah, bro.

I mean, pretty much like every job I had until college, I started waiting. tables. I did it when I was like a teenager in the summers with my dad. Yeah, I did for a few years like that. But I saw a guy on social, is this a thing where you buy a bag of chips, then you open the bag and then you go to like 7-11 and you put the nacho cheese in the back? Oh, that's high school shit, dude. Kids have been in that high school. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. Kids, you know, they do, they get, they get fire Cheetos and pour the nacho cheese on the top of it and eat out of the bag. We did a lot more slurpy, like, like, we'd mix all the different slurpees. Yeah, that's our era.

Our era is 7-11 mixed three or four slurpees. The next generation coming up in high school, that was like a thing where you get when fire cheetos, remember when fire cheos became popular? We were already kind of on our way out of high school. What's in a slurpee that keeps it not? Because I've had icies or shaved ice. It's not the same as a slurpy. So shaved ice is an actual ice machine that's like.

Yes, I know that. But what's a slurpy? Because it's still ice, right? Yeah, I don't know. It's possibly being mixed, though. Yeah, it's kind of like when you get like a, what is it, like a frozen? drink at a bar. They have a thing that keeps spinning next.

It's like that for a while. It stays like that's moving. It doesn't get it doesn't let it freeze. It stays really, really cold. Yeah, and I bet you icy. Look at it.

They keep it kind of liquidy by moving it. It's just a syrup. Is it a syrup over? Oh, yeah, just a syrup over ice. Because you know what they do is sometimes, like the ice cream, the soft serve?

There's chemicals in there. Yeah, who knows? They probably have that, bro. I mean, it's 7-11. Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, it's from syrup. It wouldn't surprise me. That's all it is.

Oh, well, there you go. They use yucca and quill— What is that? Quillia extracts for foam stability. See, that's what— See, something makes it stable. Yucca and quiliha. I thought it just keeps it moving.

Quila. And that's what keeps it from freezing. But it's kept in a very cold temperature inside there. What plant does those come from? What plant? Well, the yucca plant is a plant. That is a real plant. Were you on big slurbies at one point?

I was a big slurpy kid. Really? Yeah, yeah. 7-11 was right by my house, and we used to do that. what Justin said. Yeah, we'd ride our bikes over there and we do the, uh, I was weird. I don't wasn't like, I would eat it. I mean, you gave me a slurpy. I'd have it. Slurpy suicides. You were too busy reading the encyclopedia in your room. Yeah, no, no, I liked, um, like weird snacks. Like, I like Cheetos, cheese puffs. Uh, I like the Doritos. You like the circus peanuts.

You know what I like that was weird. That nobody likes, I don't think any, I don't ever see anybody eat, but I love was funyons. I used to crush fun. I love fun ya. You know why I stopped eating them, though? Make your breastmo. Yep. So you're in junior high and you're trying to talk to a girl. I hate those. I hate corn nuts. I love corn nuts. The one kid that would always come in corn nuts, the whole room,

stink, dude. They're delicious, though. I like, you don't like corn nuts, huh? I just, it smells bad. There's something satisfying about the crunch of those, too. Well, I'm outnumbered here. What are we doing in class?

Someone needs to make high protein corn nuts. You really got a good spray cheese on crackers, dude. Yeah. Okay. Cheez whiz. He's a big cheese whiz guy. I would always bring, and everybody try to steal my string cheese, dude. Explain that.

Hey, there's a little trauma back there. Yeah, yeah. There was a little trauma there. I'd come with two and then it'd always be one. I'm like, who stole my street cheese? I think it was a joke, you know, amongst like my other friends. Like somebody would always try and steal my string cheese. Did you bite the string cheese or peel it?

I peel it, dude. What's the point of the string cheese? I know. So my dog. Did you guys have braces as kids? No, I did it. I never did. I didn't.

It's funny about that. Did you Doug? No. My parents asked me. They didn't invent braces back. Yeah. I had a crugat tea and all that. And they're like, oh, do you want to fit?

side or like, I'm like, well, I don't know. I think I'm, like, I was just trying to be like, well, I'm cool. You know, I'll, I'll deal with it kind of thing. Oh, good, great, great, fine. I just save them a ton of money. That's really what it amounted to. It's really pricey now. Why would you ask you?

I mean, it was pricey when we were kids, but it's like gone crazy. I think generally around $7,000. No, yeah. It was like $1,000 something when we were kids. My daughter had to have, she had a lot of stuff happened. We did the palate spreading, like the whole deal. But they don't do head gear anymore, I don't think. I haven't seen...

They don't do that anymore? I haven't seen it, but... No, no. They're better. They do something else, but headgear was bro. You see a kid. Remember they?

Hey, I got headgear. It was rough. So I got the lowdown on iceys here for you. Okay. So we got flavored syrup, water, CO2, in a specialized pressurized machine.

So the machine continuously churned and freezes the liquid to create a fluffy carbonated, semi-solid. It's the CO2 and the moving of it. That's what I mean. Can you do like a nice? Nitro infused the version of that?

You may be able to be It's just in. I mean, that's, is that what it is? Yeah, I think that's kind of what it is. Okay. Yeah. I like chicken. Coffee, icy sounds kind of good, actually,

and you're saying that. Chicken and a biscuit crackers for me. Hold that thought, dude. Nobody eats those, dude. Chicken and a biscuit? I don't even think they make things. Yes, they're still around? Those were the best, bro.

Crackers that taste like chicken soup. That's also one of those things. It's weird. It's like, was it ramen that was like shrimp flavor? And you're like, hmm. Oh. Why is it? Yeah.

Like, how? Did you eat dry ramen? Did you ever eat dry ramen and pour the stuff on it? Probably in college, yeah. I ate a lot of like, what is that, that cheese that comes out of the can. Cheese whiz. Cheese, yeah. That's easy cheese.

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Our next caller is Jennifer from Tennessee. Hi, Jennifer. How good, Jennifer. Hey, hey. Thanks for having me on. You got it. How can we help you? So, first of all, I know this is total first world problems and totally insane vanity. But I've heard you guys address a few things that are similar to what I have going on, but nothing exactly like me.

I have been following your show for a while. I have a couple of your programs. I would be what I guess is considered pear shape. So I show, sorry, dog, I have, it's very easy for me to show all sorts of muscles in my upper half, but I cannot get definition in my lower half to save my ever-loven life. A little bit of backstory. I've worked out since, I'm a little hyper, a lot hyper. So exercise was like a way to medicate myself like throughout my entire like whatever junior high high school and adult life. and I did it the 90s way, right?

Which is the cardio and I swam through high school and then I did rowing. So there was some lifting involved, but I'm very strong naturally and that's not, that hasn't been cool except for maybe the last five years. So I hid from that, right? I was like, give me the five and ten pounds because that's what girls are supposed to do. Last five years I've been really up in the lifting. I don't know what my maxes are because I'm afraid to. max out. But with you guys following your

MAPS Anabolic last fall and now I'm on muscle mommy, I've been just, every time I lift I'm just trying to add a couple pounds. So how does somebody who has a pretty good background in exercise? I used to own a yoga and Pilates studio here in town. I did a lot of that. I still do a little bit of Pilates. I have a reformer and chair and stuff here at home. Not too much. I'm following Muscle Mop's muscle Mommy phase two right now. 15 of like those reps can be exhausting.

Y'all love the shoulder work. I've noticed that. But how do I modify it? I heard you guys talk about this with one fella because he had big legs. He reduced the volume on the legs and increase it on the upper body. How do you modify your programs to do? Is it more volume on the legs to get definition? It's not it's not to get more definition but to build more muscle.

So there's a couple ways that you can get more definition in an area. One is to get it leaner and one is to develop the muscle underneath more. Now, you look like you're pretty lean just from looking at you. What's your body fat percentage? The Hume scale, y'all are not going to like it. It's at 17%. 17.3. I would have guessed by just looking at you, I could tell that you're in the teens.

I don't think it's a good idea to try to get leaner. I don't think, yeah, you won't feel good. It'll throw your hormones off. It's just not good. You probably, what you want to do is just focus on building the lower body a little more to get the shape that you're looking for. And the way to do that is to take volume away from upper body training and transfer it to lower body training. The other option is this, and this very well may be the case, you might be just a little bit skewed on how you're judging the way you look. Yes, the Hume scale has helped a lot with that.

It was a Christmas present to myself. And when I saw, you know, the body fat percentages and different various body parts, I was like, oh, that's shocking. The Hume scale has helped some of that body dysmorphia for sure. However, when you're sitting there and if I take my sweater off and you can see all the muscles and there's like veins showing if I lift anything, which dudes think is cool. It's not so cool for women. I don't have any of that in the legs. Not that I want to have the veins showing, but I would like there to be evidence of the fact that I exercise,

like when I wear shorts. And you don't see that necessarily. I'm going to bet, I would bet my house that you look very developed and muscular in the lower body. If you have veins in the upper body, you get leaner. It's going to get worse. I don't want to get.

I've been bulking because of you guys. I've been bulking since January. I don't follow. I used to coach for an Indian company, and they were really big on the macros and all that kind of stuff. And it was too low for me. I know very well if I get below 2,000 calories, I will eat you. So I eat between 2,500 and 3,000 calories a day. It just depends if my daughter makes cookies.

We're really clean eaters. I've got 2037 meat chickens in my basement right now, so we butcher our own stuff. So we're really clean eaters. and I eat a lot. So it's hard for me to, I don't know exactly how much more to add if you get that. What about, tell me a little bit about your squat, your deadlift, when you do train legs.

Like, what are you working out with? So I, again, so in my email, I have a tear in my right labrum on my hip and my left shoulder labrum. So I'm a little scared of lifting heavy. I went to a PT when I started math. and had her watch me. So I basically started at zero back in November, excuse me, November. And now, you know, with the maps, Anabolic, I guess I got up to like 85, and I just kind of got scared with the squat.

With the deadlifts, I just did the Romanians today. We did 15 at what, like 115 or something. Jennifer, not that I need to know the answer to that I said, I already know what's happening here, but how tall are you and what's your body weight? I am 5-6 and 3 quarters, the 3-quarters count. Yeah. And I weigh about, I oscillate between 150 and 155 right now. So you're 155, 17% body fat. You've had two injuries.

I see you did CrossFit. I see you owned a Pilate Studio. You're on, maybe Doug scroll down a little bit for me. You're taking, you're on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. You're taking Tessa-Marolin, Ipa-Morilin, N-A-D, glutathlethyl. Thyon, BPC, TB 500, microdosing, GLP1. I'm going to tell you something right now. I know what the issue is.

What is the issue? You're seeing yourself very skewed, honey. There is no answer to this other than stop focusing so much on the details that you think are not looking the way you want. And that might not be the answer you want, but that's the right answer. Because, okay, you've got a lot of muscle. You're lean. You're leaner than probably is good. I think you probably should gain some body fat, but that sounds.

probably like nails on a chalkboard to someone like you. You're eating a lot. You eat healthy. You eat high protein. There's nothing you would do more. The only thing I would do, look, if I was your trainer, I would focus on correctional exercise so that you felt more comfortable with heavier movements. Maybe build your confidence in the lifting heavy support system.

Split stance exercises would be good. Hip thrust would be good for you. Trap bar dead lifts might be better than a straight bar dead lift for you. Stick with unilateral for a while. Yeah, unilateral. So like map symmetry, probably be good for you. That was going to be what I thought next.

Yeah, that would be good for you. But there's nothing like, I bet you if you sent this picture, it's not that you need to, but I bet you I would probably laugh and be like, I think you're just, yeah, you're really hard on yourself. I bet your husband tells you that

and your friends probably tell you that too. I, uh, no, my husband doesn't care. He said my butt was shrinking since doing, uh, Matt Sanabolic.

He's like, stop. It doesn't even because I'm, whatever, uh, hourglass, whatever, or peri shape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're, I think you're really tearing yourself down, huh?

I mean, I could, I mean, yeah, you could add more volume to lower body, reduce volume, upper body, continue to eat in surplus. What does that look like, though? When you say reduce volume, like in the maps program. Same exercises. So like you're following muscle mommy, right? You would take one or two sets away from the upper body stuff and then add them to the lower body stuff and you don't need to change the programming.

So probably something like chest and shirt and shoulders since you recognize that that's an area that you're not as focused on so take you know two sets from chest two sets from shoulders and then you have four sets to lower body stuff and then you have four sets towards a lower body exercise so just add in another lower body to the maps another set just another set you can choose same exercises just added an extra set yeah so let's say like it says hip thrust for three sets now you can do five sets because you took two away from upper body right yeah okay okay I haven't done five I usually stop at three sometimes four because I was whatever, 90s girl. Yeah, no.

So that's it. So you would just trade volume is what you're doing. You can even skip, you know, if your shoulders get really developed and upper body, you can't even train them every other week and not have to train them weekly and take that extra work and put it towards the sets on your lower body. Okay. I'll try it. Yeah, give it a shot, but I know that's not what you want to hear.

I kind of figured that because you guys always harp on women shouldn't get below 20. And I've been up when I was having babies. I didn't focus on, I just ate. You know, I was making a kidney. So if mama wants golden grams, mom's eating golden grams. And so, you know, I've gotten above it. But even after, and I weighed whatever, I gained like 100 pounds between both my babies. And so I feel like there's a healthy relationship with food.

That's not the issue. I just don't, I don't, I can tell a difference. When I'm over 20, I got the pouch. Yeah. And instead of seeing muscles, you see the parade wave. You know what I mean? I'm not too worried about your body fat percentage because of how much food you said you're eating. You may be one of those athletically, you know, genetically gifted women, which it sounds like you are, where you probably were always stronger.

You probably built muscle easier than most people around you. and some women can eat a lot and weight train and walk around, you know, 18% body fat and not really have hormone issues or anything like that. It's not common. But if you were telling me that you were eating, you know, 1,800 calories a day, I'd be like, you got to bump, you got to bump that up. But it sounds to me like if what you're telling me is true, which I think it is, that you're eating like plenty of food. I'm not worried about that. But I definitely think that you're breaking yourself down, like you're probably looking at yourself in the mirror. and finding the little areas that you think need to look different.

And that's missing up this whole experience. Maybe. But like when my calves are bigger than my husband's, like I got 16 inch calves guys. And like whatever. My wife's calves are bigger than mine too. And whatever. What is it?

My thighs are maybe like they go between 23 and 25. Those are some big legs. And I want to be able to see the muscles like I can see in my arm. If I'm just moving, you can see shoulder muscles, right? And it's like I would. like to see there's a quadricep muscle that goes up my thigh. I would like to see that. It's vanity. Total first world problem. But if I'm working out and following your protocol, the three days a week,

I'm not doing more. I get my 10,000 plus steps a day because I am hyper. Like, I would like to see evidence. Every woman's going to be like that. You're always going to be harder to see. Like, just get a woman to see strations or quad definition, the lower body. Yeah. It's like, you're getting really lean. You know, that's just the way it is. Unnecessary. Yeah. But I bet you if you were standing with shorts on, I bet we would see very clearly from the front.

Oh, there's your quads. You probably have a nice hamstring bump in the back. Yeah, you do. We're like going to win with you. Get your husband on here. Let me ask him what he thinks. He's not. I mean, it's, Jennifer, it's really easy math for us.

Like when you take somebody who's 17 to 19% body fat, that's why Sal asked you how much you weighed. You got a lot of lean. And then you're also saying how lean here. If you're showing veins in your upper body, you've got a lot of muscle in your legs. You've got a lot of muscle in your legs. And you may not see it that way or think that way.

And everybody carries a lot of body fat in their lower legs. Some more than others, but that's, I mean, I don't see, I don't see quad separation until I'm getting ready for stage. I mean, I just, I don't. But there's shape to it, you know, and it's covered with body fat. I know it is. That's where most people carry a lot of their body fat is hips and legs and especially women. But you've got a lot of muscle on your body and you're lean.

I mean, you're really lean. So going down just to see separation in the legs would require us to hit an unhealthy place of body fat percentage. Yeah, you have to get down 15%. Yeah, yeah. You don't want to do that. You're already on the leaner side. So you're better off. Just keep focusing on trying to build and place a little emphasis on the lower body.

if that's really, again, if that's really case. You can get strong and feel comfortable and confident that you can lift a little bit heavier and that's going to help move the needle in that direction you want anyways. Let me encourage you, Jennifer. You've been doing this for a while. You're in the same age range as us. I can see that you're healthy. You've got a lot of energy.

If I put you next to women your age, there's probably a dramatic difference in both energy function and the way you look. You're being real hard on yourself. you're crushing it. You're eating a lot. You've got a fast metabolism. You're working out. You're active.

Like you're totally killing it. And there's definitely a thing. For real, there's a thing as people ruining the experience of this amazing thing that you've accomplished and continue to accomplish by breaking themselves down in the mirror. By looking and saying, I want this little piece here. And I want a little more of that. And I feel like I don't look like I work out. Even though everyone around he's like, man, you look like you work out.

Not that it matters what they think. What matters is what you think, and it'll ruin the experience for you. Because you're on your path. If you stay the course, man, you're on this incredible path. And you're going to continue to separate yourself from your peers, which you're already already. Like I said, you know this. Go walk around a bunch of women your age. And it's very different.

You know how that's going to be. Yeah, you wait until you're 57, 67, 77. It's going to be like you're in a different universe. You're doing such a good job. And I don't think you're celebrating it. the way that you should. And so that changes the experience of the whole thing. And it makes it less enjoyable and more stressful.

I mean, we're in the long game now. At this point, it's like maintain this and continue this on, like Sal's saying, getting obsessed with it or forcing your body to go a certain direction. This is where the injury comes. This is where the injury happens or the setbacks come.

Like you're in such a good place. Such a great place. Stay there, Jennifer. Thanks. I will try the change. The question I didn't know, changing, adding some more volume. I'm not going to, I don't want to lose weight. I've given up like 150, 155 is good.

160. I don't even care. But I would just like to, I want, if a bad guy's coming down the road and I've got my kids with me, I want him to be afraid that I kick him. I'll kick him into next week, you know what I mean? Just get a gun. We're in Tennessee. We have those two.

Yeah, you're good, dude. You're doing great. You're doing really good. We'll have a Doug sendover map symmetry, so you got that next to follow. I think that would be a good program for you. That's the one that's left and right, right? The bilateral. Yeah, unilateral.

Yeah, yeah. Stay in those first few phases, yeah. Totally. Don't do the last phase for a while. Don't do the last phase. Okay, and that will help me to get the confidence and the squat. Yes, yes. Yes, yes.

Yes, it will, especially with the injuries that you've had. Yeah, it'll build up that support system for you. Yep. Awesome. Thank you, guys. I appreciate your time. Thank you, Jennifer. You all have a good one.

Did she hear anything? I wish we had a picture so we could see. I mean, obviously. I don't need to see a picture. Yeah. I can see her neck. I can see how her delts look through her sweater. I mean,

her numbers are on point. The numbers that she's giving me. She's actually like, she's jacked. Yeah, dude. She's not just like kind of fit. She's like got a really fit. Yeah. Really fit.

You're not 17% body fat, 150, 160 pounds. At her height. Yeah. And complaining about your vascularity and your upper body and not have. No. Listen, this is tough. It's really tough because. And she don't want to hear it.

And she don't want to hear it because she probably hears people tell her all time how great she looks. And she's like, no, I don't. It ruins this incredible experience. Not that you got to sit there and celebrate how great you are. But it's like you can't enjoy it. Not only that, Sal, but the myth that a lot of people fall for. They don't know until they ever reach that. point that it's like the money thing.

I'll be happy when I make this much money. I'll be happy when I get to the, it's an illusion. And then you get there and you pick yourself apart the same way. It's literally the thing that motivates 90% of these competitors is that they're, they still obsess even after they get, present the most perfect physique on stage. They are continually focused on all the flaws and that's what they keep. It's like, you know what's been happening. 10 years later, she looks back at the picture.

Oh, my God. I wish I was like this. Exactly what I was going to say. She's going to look at herself in 10 years. Look a picture. I'm like, man, I looked. What was I thinking? Yeah.

I looked amazing. Our next caller is Roger from California. What's up, Roger? What's happening? How's it going, gentlemen? Thanks for having me. Good. How can we help you, man?

So I emailed, I've got a probably a pretty unique situation here. So my son and I, right around that Christmas, we purchased the Maps 15. power lift. So a little background on my son. He's a baseball player. He's eighth grade going into his freshman year in high school next year. He's pretty kind of small by nature. He just hasn't hit that puberty yet. So he's about five, five, 110 pounds after a good meal. And so we started doing this in an effort to kind of lift more, but not kind of overtrained with baseball practices and kind of the other things he's got going on. So we got about three weeks into the program.

program. He was, we were in kind of like the deadlift phase, I guess, is looking back on it. And his deadlift was up. He's deadlifted about 2.30 at the time. It increased strength by 10%. I saw all my lifts go kind of up in ways I hadn't seen before. So we kind of knew the program was really working for us and for him. And it was cool doing it with him as a dad and a son kind of side by side. So the story takes a weird turn here is he was out of baseball practice one morning. And during a drill, it wasn't during batting practice, so he didn't have a helmet on. But a ball that essentially wasn't supposed to be thrown, ended up going in his way, hit him in the side of the head.

And that was at 10 in the morning by 4 o'clock that afternoon, we're in emergency kind of brain surgery. He had a what was called a cranial hematoma. So it wasn't actually his brain bleeding, but it was a small artery that was punctured by the fracture. So four-hour surgery came out of it. Everything was good. But he's obviously was this was about two and a half months ago. So obviously it has some healing to kind of go through, which puts the lifting and all of that, obviously, on the back burner. So kind of at the point we're at now.

The reason I had reached out to you guys is I had a good friend at our church. Well, that's funny. He's a good friend now. At the time, I did not know the gentleman. And he had came over and just randomly started talking, mentioned your podcast, which is where kind of all this kind of comes together. And so after watching my son kind of go through the workout stage and all that working and now kind of hit a little bump in the road, I kind of wanted to reach out to you guys

and just get a feel for. kind of he's now so now we're looking about three months before high school preseason kind of camp starts and kind of reaching out to you guys to see what kind of program you would recommend him getting into full clearance from the doctors now um i've just we always say praise to god because uh brain is 100 percent healthy. There's zero lingering side effects. Nothing wrong with muscles or anything like that is. It's got a full clearance from the doctor.

The only thing we're waiting for now for getting back to actually baseball is for the fracture itself to heal. And then they had to take out a size of about his palm from his skull to let the bleeding kind of dissipate. And so now we got away for that. kind of to hill up. So he's about a month away from actually getting back on the field. But in terms of the weights and conditioning and all that, he's got a full green light to go. So I would just like to kind of reach out to you guys and say, you know, what would be your advice to him, both for getting

stronger, getting back into it, but also just the baseball atmosphere or landscape does look for kids to be bigger and stronger. And so what he could do to kind of fight this. this little by nature syndrome that he's got going right now. Yeah, man. Well, that's scary, dude. So glad to hear he's okay. So, again, just to confirm no movement issues, no speech issues, no nothing. It's all good.

Just waiting for that complete healing. Okay. That was the crazy thing is he had passed all PT and concussion tests two days after it. Wow. That's awesome, man. Thank God. Protected in a mighty way. That's awesome.

So, okay, so just to encourage you, Roger, he'll gain back very quickly. The only way to mess this up is to go too hard, too fast. Okay. So muscle memory is radically effective and amazing, especially in kids. It's wild how kids can build back strength and mobility and function from having a cast on for six months or something like that. It's crazy. So it's just remarkable. The only thing you can do wrong is push too fast.

So when he's cleared, you go Map Starter. After Map Starter, he'll probably be okay to get back into what he was doing. Map starter is going to feel easy. It's going to feel easy to him or whatever. And we're just going to just want to just be careful. Build back stability. Build back stability. It'll come back real quick, dude.

And then as far as like size and strength, it's the same thing we tell everybody. Make sure he eats enough, eats high protein. with a kid his age, sleep is always a big challenge because they want to stay up on their on their devices or whatever. So it's like now go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time every day. Don't do the thing where you go to bed super late Friday and you sleep in super late Saturday and, you know,

jet lag yourself on Monday type of deal. And that's pretty much it, dude. There's really nothing crazy, crazy advice considering his, his healing is just good. Yeah, I'm honestly like, there's two kind of levers to pull with this and there's intensity and there's volume, and I would lean more towards the volume in the practice of the lifts,

mainly because of that intracranial pressure and just that intensity of him, like, squeezing and his output, I would be a little bit concerned with that, just, you know, to be on the cautious side and have him really kind of, you know, work through these movements, get that muscle contracting again, and just kind of be in his body again for a bit.

So to start, and then maybe even like moving into 15. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I go starter and then 15 after that. He'll be fine though by time he gets to 15 because that starters long enough that he's in intensity-wise, he should be okay. And then just really prioritize kids,

probably the hardest thing I think for young kids is the diet. Yep. Is consistently hitting protein, you know. And like I'm okay with, you know, some junk calories or bad calories so long as we hit our protein first. And so that would be kind of the message. I would be constantly drilling in is, you know, I really focus on his food. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not worried about eating, you know, extra stuff here and there because

he's probably going to be burning a lot with everything he's doing. But what they tend to do is not hit protein and then overconsume on sugar and other shit like that. That's just not going to help them build. And so keeping him consistent with that, with all the stuff he's doing, lifting wise and training, like he'll build muscle. But that's the part that they struggle. They struggle with consistently hitting their.

protein intake. The game changer with teenagers is breakfast. Yes. Okay. Yeah, that's the, that's the big hack, dude. It's a yeah, you get, you get him to eat a, load up that protein. Yeah, you get him to eat like 30, 40 grams of protein, you know, his size for, for breakfast. The rest is easy. He misses breakfast or skips breakfast or rushes out to go to school. Then it's a, it's a, it's a uphill battle. Breakfast is the key. Yeah, nutrition's been the big thing. He's not a, we'll say he's not a big eater. Always. He's, he's the one I have to remind to eat. and so yeah what would you guys say if i was to give him a number calorie wise i wouldn't focus on the calories i'd focus on the protein yeah have him hit a hundred 120 pounds approaching a day yeah had

him hit the hit the protein and then let him eat whatever he wants on top of that so it's like i don't i don't give i don't give shiv he's have an ice cream here and there i don't care about the burgers and the fries but hit his protein and take first and the guys are right like what will what will make it really difficult if he's a breakfast skipper or a bowl of cereal guy in the morning and he goes off because that's just a bunch of carbs and sugar and he's not getting high protein. Yeah, the quick breakfast stuff is, yeah. Do you wake up with him and take him to school in the morning

or is that mom? Who does that with him? Yeah, so we homeschool. So I'm usually already out of the house. So which makes the sleep part easy because they kind of can work on their own schedule. So he's good about getting his, you know, eight to ten hours of sleep.

Yeah. Okay, so this is good. So cook breakfast and it's good family time too. Well, even if you don't cook, I don't hear me give the advice all time, I love the cook a big, dinner and then that breakfast is literally the leftovers with the two, three eggs cracked over it. Like that's a go-to move. Like I'm sure like you guys, I mean, most people are consistent with like

the dinner time, family dinner cooking or whatever like that. And if you have, you know, ground beef, steak, chicken, whatever it is and rice, sweet potatoes, regular potato, you just literally portion that out for the morning, reheat that and throw two or three eggs on top of it. And you got yourself a 50 gram, you know, high protein, great breakfast for him. Starting that at him off on the right track like that makes the rest of the day pretty easy. Okay. Awesome. That's, I mean, I'll share this with him because I know he needs to hear from somebody other than dad. He's probably heard the message from dad a little too often. Yeah, of course.

And a good target for him is like 150 pounds or 150 grams of proteins. A good target. If he falls a little. Even if he misses that he's good. Yeah. Shooting for 150. If he's shooting for 150 and he falls short to 110, he'll be 120, he'll be fine. but shoot for 150 grams of protein will be a good target for him to go after. Totally. Okay. Great.

Thank you. Cool. You got it, man. Thank you for calling in. I'm going to send you a starter. Thank you guys so much for what you do. We love listening to you guys. And it's just great to be able to talk to your face to face and to share this with my son.

And it's been a big kind of whirlwind of the last two months. So I bet. We have a cool step and just getting better. Well, I love to hear back after you guys go through this whole process. So let's hear if he sticks with it. Email back in so we know how he's doing. Awesome. All right, Roger.

Thanks, man. Thank you. You guys. Ooh, that's scary. That hits me a bit. Oh, boy, that's scary. But think, I mean, full recovery. Like, that's wonderful.

But that is terrifying. But yeah, with kids, it's breakfast. Oh, yeah. It's like they don't want to eat the morning. I mean, shit, that's everybody. But you're right. Kids are just specially. Yeah.

They don't want to eat. Skip or you have cereal. Yeah, dude. What we do. home. Now we have a little bit of an advantage because we also homeschool. So we're not like rushed because that's when it gets real tough. And most schools start so damn early. They get in your kid up and then getting them to eat. It's like, I don't want to eat, right? I deal that every day. But with our, with the little one, because my daughter's hard. So she's 16. She goes at high school.

And so we've just, what I've done with her is I've gotten to the high protein yogurts and she'll throw a granola in there. And it's like a compromise, right? But at least she's getting the protein. I saw a bad compromise though. That's a solid. You get those ones with 15, 20 grams in it. I get the 30 gram one. Yeah. Now, it's definitely better than nothing. And thank God my daughter's like, she's playing sports, so she's all about it. But like with the little ones, breakfast is family time.

And so it's like, we got the break. We don't have to rush it. We're going to sit together. If I'm not there because I'm at work, my wife does it with them. And, you know, we make sure they get it. But that's the hack because you skip breakfast. You're trying to get, you know, you try to get 120 grams of protein. It's real difficult.

Which doesn't sound like a ton. But if he misses breakfast, now you got what do you have 60 grams for, lunch and dinner. And let's be honest, school lunch type settings is like a sandwich. It's not available. It's like 10 grams of protein. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our next caller is Evan from Indiana.

What's up, Evan? It's happening. Hey, how's it going? Good, dude. How you doing? Doing all right. I'll just get into my question then. So I've got like a lingering question about nutrition.

I have been vegan for six years. And my question mainly is around like nutrition regarding. protein. I guess specifically what I understand to be like complete and incomplete like protein sources from plant-based foods. So, you know, for reference, I'll try to hit 210 grams of protein per day. And I'm pretty consistent with that. It's not too big a deal. But while I'm tracking that, you know, for example, if I eat bowl of rice and beans and their protein on top of that, the rice and the beans have protein in it that counts towards the total that kind of thing. And so my question is like, you know, how much does it matter that the protein source that

I'm eating has is like a complete protein or not to hit that target? Good question, dude. I have some more questions for you. Sure. Do you take any supplements? I take protein powder to help out with that. usually like one in the morning. Some of the foods that I make will have like protein powder included in them,

both to complement the amino acid profile, but also just bump the protein of whatever I'm making. Aside from that, I'll take creatine and then just vitamins and stuff. What kind of vitamins are you taking? Multi B12, omega-3. EAs? I think so a little bit. I think it has DHA and the other one.

Okay, good, good, good. So, so, and you said you're hitting about 210 grams of total protein a day, and how much you weigh? Right now, I'm about 192. Okay. So, so protein quality matters more when you're low. When the protein is below a certain threshold. You're probably beyond that threshold, so you're okay. In other words, the total amino acids you're consuming are okay.

Now, you could try getting up to 2.30. 240 grams of protein to see if you notice a difference. But if the protein is high, then what we start to see with protein quality is it doesn't make that big of a difference anymore. Now, if your protein is like 150, then it definitely makes a difference. The only caveat is sometimes really high intake of vegan proteins because they tend to come along with fiber and other things and just quantity. is sometimes people see gastric distress. But if your digestion's okay,

then you're probably okay. And you could try bumping it to see if you notice a difference. And what you'll notice is like more strength, better recovery type of deal. But I do have some other questions around diet, if that's okay? Sure, yeah. What is your,

what's the reason for going vegan? Is this a moral thing for you, like because you don't want animals to be hurt type of deal? Yeah, basically. Okay. That's good. That's fine. Fine. Totally fine. If you were doing it for health, if you're like, hey, I want to do it for health or whatever, then we would talk a little bit about the value of eating meat. So meat is off the table for you. What about eggs? Are eggs off the table? Off the table. Strictly vegan.

Strictly. Okay. We're fine then. You could bump your protein and I would, I don't know how many grams of creatine do you take the day? Five. I was taking 10, but when I did that in one dose, I noticed it hurt my stomach. So it bumped it down to five. You can't just break it up throughout the day. I would take 15 grams of creatine a day, but I'd take five with breakfast, five with lunch, five with dinner. Yeah, my vegan clients got remarkable benefits from taking 10 to 15 grams of cratine, but you've got to divide it up all at once and you'll get gastric distress. Okay.

If you're hitting that number with EAAs, you're going to be, he's going to be fine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So if you don't, if you're not consistently taking EAAs, consistently take EAAs, consistently take EAAs with your meals. You could try that. And that'll help. Yeah, some capsules.

Like Keon makes a really good essential amino acid supplement that's also vegan. And what you would do is you would add like five capsules per meal, which essentially boosts the, what they would label is the protein, you know, quality, essentially. And you could try that as well. I've had, you know, clients do that who are vegan, who also got good results from that. What are your total calories at? right now I'm sitting around 3,400. Wow. Oh, yeah, you're doing good, dude.

You're doing all right. And how's your strength training? It's going pretty good. I've been doing the 15 advanced, just starting another round of that after taking a week off. Okay, perfect. After finishing the last. And it's been going great. I think it's started, I've tracked on and off just because of consistency in life and all that stuff for the past few years.

And it started, I think, around 20, 700 just because that's been a starting point for me in the past and I went to 3100 and then been sitting at 3,400 for I don't know, probably six weeks now. That's solid. And then you get, you get things like iron tested. Yeah, bloodbarks. All good. Beautiful.

And then with your B vitamins, something you might want to try or methylated B vitamins. Okay. Sometimes people in general do better with the methylated version. It's a brand that carries that. I mean, I don't know a good brand. I mean, you could just look it up. just look up, methylated B, you know, complex. I had a vegan client once where we were, she kind of had low energy, but everything

else looked good, couldn't really figure it out. She was taking B vitamins. We switched to methylated B, and it was like a light switch. So just something you can experiment. They're inexpensive. If you're already taking B vitamins, you could just go methylated and see if you notice a difference. But otherwise, you're doing everything great, dude.

Yeah. How long you've been following math programs? Have you been doing them for a while or you just get started on them? Off and on, for most of the time that I've been consistent. Strength Training. I did Anabolic back in I think 23 and then, you know, we had our

son in early 24 so it's been hard to be consistent with that, which is what's nice about the 15 program. Oh, cool. Yeah, cool. Yeah, you're doing otherwise you're doing good, bro. Yeah, yeah. Doing real good. Well, cool. I appreciate it. Hey, can I send you a program? You're following 15. You have the other 15th? Yeah, let's do another version?

No, just the advanced. The regular, like, 50s. 15 and 15 advance. What do you want? You want 15 power lift? We have 15 performance. I saw, actually, I was thinking about, like, you know, something related to symmetry. And I went on your website and I saw that there's a 15 symmetry.

We'll send that to you, bro. Yeah, we'll send it over. You got it. Oh, well, cool. Appreciate it. Yeah, you got it, man. Thanks. Awesome.

Thanks, guys. Take it easy, man. I had a client once. They're doing good, dude. Yeah. So my vegan clients were challenging because of, and he's doing it. But it was challenging it enough. protein without getting so much other stuff.

Yeah, totally. And then we would supplement. Yeah, he's definitely supplement. So all my, yeah, because nutrient efficiency is going to be higher when you have comparable balanced diets in, in vegan diets. So we would do multivitamin, and I'd have this one woman, and I'll never forget. And there's only one because I had other vegan clients. And when they did, when they followed the protocols, everybody turned out okay.

But there's one woman I had, I'll never forget. We did everything, bro. We did everything. We had the supplements. She was taking the cratine. she was hitting protein using protein powder and she just had this lingering like low energy she'd have these kind of symptoms that look like nutrient it couldn't figure it out and convinced finally just me and a functional medicine practitioner convinced her to eat eggs and it was like

cholesterol you think uh i think it was it had to be either the coline or something and this is my guess uh and i've heard of other cases like this from functional medicine practitioners where they're like look i've had some vegan clients where we had to sit down to say you got to throw in some meat. Eggs is usually like a gateway. Bro, it was like night and day, dude. She started eating eggs. It was like, I gave her steroids.

It was like, boom. She's like, oh my God, I feel so good. And I'm like, and the conversation. The conversation was like this, dude, because she was very much about animal welfare, which that's the only vegans that stick to it, by the way. So I asked them. And I said to her, I said, look, I know this is real important to you.

I said that the animal, you have to place at the top because otherwise you're not able to be a, good in this world is you. And so she gave in, ate some eggs, and it was like a light bulb went off. And she just, she felt so much better. But there's only one, only one client that ever happened with. Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram.

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