Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2846: Why People Quit Personal Trainers (And Whether AI Can Replace Them)

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

You want results. Real, lasting, life-changing results. And the guys are breaking down the ONE investment that actually delivers... hiring a great personal trainer. But here's the thing... most people quit. Sal, Adam, and Justin go through the top six reasons why people stop working with their trainers, and they pull zero punches doing it. From the cost objection to boring workouts to scheduling excuses, they expose what's really going on AND whether AI can step in and fill the gap. Spoiler alert... AI is NOT the answer. Not because information isn't valuable, but because information was NEVER the point. Google has existed for decades. Fitness magazines have been free at the library forever. The real value of a great coach is the human relationship, the behavioral steering, the ability to READ you when your data says one thing but your face says another. That's something no chatbot can replicate... at least not yet. This episode also covers live caller coaching, a 55 minute intro packed with fitness, fat loss, muscle gain, diet talk, and current events, AND a wild tangent about P90X making a comeback with a brand new program. You do NOT want to miss the guys reacting to those training pillars. Plus there is a brand new program, MAPS Push Pull Legs, dropping this month at 40% off. This one is for YOU if you are serious about building a real physique with a smart, effective split. MAPS Push Pull Legs https://mapsppl.com code: PPL for 40% off Sponsors: Manukora ⇨⇨go to manukora.com/MINDPUMP Use code MINDPUMP and save up to 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts with the Starter Kit, Kit, which comes with an MGO 850+ Manuka Honey jar, 5 honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guidebook! ButcherBox ⇨⇨go to butcherbox.com/mindpump NOW - 5/18 - New users will receive their choice between Chicken breast for a year, Top Sirloin for a Year or Ground beef for LIFE + $20 off at checkout LMNT can help prevent and eliminate headaches, muscle cramps, fatigue, sleeplessness, and other common symptoms of electrolyte deficiency.When you sweat, the primary electrolyte lost is sodium - athletes can lose up to 7 grams per day. When sodium is not replaced, it's common to experience muscle cramps and fatigue. http://drinklmnt.com/MindPump "Get a free Sample Pack of LMNT's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase! Find your favorite LMNT flavor, or share with a friend." As always, LMNT offers no-questions-asked refunds on all orders. 00:02:56  6 Reasons People Quit Their Personal Trainer — And Whether AI Can Fix Them 00:03:52  Reason #1: Too Expensive — Is AI a Real Substitute? 00:08:35  Reason #2: Workouts Aren't Personalized — What a Good Coach Actually Does 00:12:56  Reading Clients Beyond Data — Psychology Is 80% of Coaching 00:17:31  Reason #3: Boring Workouts — Why the Best Coaches Have the Simplest Programs 00:20:38  Reason #4: Scheduling Issues — The Real Reason People Don't Have Time 00:23:15  Reason #5 & 6: Trainer Doesn't Practice What They Preach 00:25:39  P90X Is Back — Generation Next Breakdown 00:29:28  The Prompting Problem: Why AI Workouts Fail Without a Trainer Brain 00:31:20  Sal's Cousin's Mystery Pain — The Connection Nobody Could See 00:33:26  Toddler Tantrum Story — Army Crawling in Protest 00:35:43  Car Seat Fights & Growing Up Without Safety Laws 00:38:54  Riding in the Back of Pickup Trucks & Dad's Work Van 00:40:49  Manuka Honey on Ribs — Adam's Smoking Recipe 00:43:33  Manuka Honey Post-Workout — Why It Protects Your Gut 00:45:43  Butcherbox Ribs, Heritage Pork & Ground Beef Quality 00:48:21  Sal's Brother Having Third Boy — Three Active Sons 00:51:16  Adam's Vintage Car Breakdown — 3 Hours on the Side of the Road 00:54:20  Getting Recognized at the Vasectomy Clinic 00:57:03  Caller #1 — Nikki: 15-Year-Old Son Squatting 315 with Knee Pain — Growth Plate Myth Debunked 01:09:14  Caller #2 — Mike: Lost 20 lbs, Stalled at 1,900 Cal, Now Eating 2,500 and Getting Leaner 01:20:55  Caller #3 — Kayla: BMR Scans Are Almost Always Wrong — What to Trust Instead 01:33:54  Caller #4 — Hannah: D1 Athlete, 2 C-Sections, Hitting PRs, Still Too Hard on Herself

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump. Mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, live callers called in, and we got to coach them on air. So people called in, asked us questions about their fitness and health.

And Adam, Justin, and myself got to help them. It's a good time. But that was after our intro. Today's intro was 55 minutes long. So in the intro, we talk about fitness, fat loss, muscle gain, current events. We talk about diet. That whole segment, again, 55 minutes long. And if you want to be on an episode like this where you call in, here's what you do.

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if you have goals, if you want to lose body, and you want to get stronger, or if you just want to make fitness, something that you do for the rest of your life is hire a good personal trainer. But people sometimes, oftentimes, stop working with their trainers. We're going to give you the six reasons why they stop doing it.

In fact, I'm going to ask my co-host here about that. And if AI is a good substitute. Yeah. So what we did is we looked up, our team looked up, the top six reasons why people stop working with a trainer. Yeah. And the AI angle is coming up more and more now.

I think it's coming up more and more for a lot of different places, different occupations. And so the question is coming up now even for fitness with AI and if it's going to play a role in any of this stuff. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go through some of these reasons. We could talk about a little bit and then see like will AI actually be a solution to some of these reasons. Okay. So the first one is and this definitely I would say has got to be the top reason why someone doesn't work with a trainer. or stops working with a trainer. They say it's too expensive.

Yeah. Costs too much money. Yeah, this is most common objection and reason I think that has always been this. And I also think that the people that don't even end up getting a personal trainer that are using AI, this would be their reason too. When I look at my family, who I am aware of that uses AI to help coach them through their workouts, ironically. Your family. Yeah. Hard to be a profit in your own town.

We do have a free podcast. So, and they do. They use, but I have some interesting, cool stories about that because several of them have and then eventually came back to asking help for me about that. And so it does kind of solve that, right? I mean, it's not expensive to use AI. But the question becomes, is it how comparable is it as far? It's sure, it's inexpensive.

It's free. Yeah. It's effective. But I would argue that that's not the main value of a coach. No, exactly. So I think to start out, working with a trainer is expensive in the context of all the things you can pay for in the fitness space, right? What can you pay for? Like gym membership, supplements, maybe someone to help you with your diet or whatever.

The most expensive is to have somebody there worth you in person a couple days a week. On average, depending on where you live, you're going to pay anywhere. between on the low end $50 a session to on the high end, it can be as expensive in some areas over $100, sometimes $120, $130 a session. And so it isn't inexpensive, especially when you compare it to how cheap gym memberships have gotten and information, how free information is. But I think the real question, you kind of said this a little bit, Adam, is what am I getting for the money?

Yeah. Because if I know I'm going to get the results I'm looking for, if I know I'm going to get sustainable results, if I know it's going to change my life in that way, then I think for a lot of people, the money becomes, it's worth the money, right? This is a problem. If this is going to solve this issue, which is a big issue, it's a hard one for a lot of people, people struggle with this for a long time. If it's going to solve this issue, if working with the trainer for six months,

which let's say it costs you, how much with six months of personal training costs you? What could that possibly? Is that $3,000, let's say? Yeah. With $3,000, if $3,000, if I knew $3,000 of working with someone

would significantly impact me or solve this challenge that I've been dealing with, I think a lot of people wouldn't think it was expensive. I think they would see the value in it. I think the problem is they compare it to other aspects of fitness, in which case it's way more expensive. No, there's a lot of water. down versions.

If you go back, even when we were trainers, this was always like the big challenge to overcome. And so you'd kind of go through the thought process of like, well, do I want to do the buddy up kind of approach? Do I want to do the group sessions? Do I want to just coach them from afar and give them like written out workout plans? And, you know, and now we have like the virtual versions of that. And there's there's lots of different like variations of it.

The ideal, though, being, you know, this personalized one-on-one attention, like somebody that's professional, has predictive knowledge, has very specific knowledge of how to steer you behaviorally. I just don't feel like the rest of it really compares to that. I think it's a really good point you're bringing up, Justin. Like, this isn't actually a new problem or challenge that we've tried to overcome. Like, too expensive has been the number one objection forever. Right. And to Justin's point, we've tried a lot of things. Group coaching, small group coaching, virtual coaching.

Free workouts online. Free workouts in magazines. Yeah. Gym membership. So we've done a lot of things to address the too expensive. Yet personal training has remained around and thriving and well needed for a lot of people. And so I don't think the AI brings something for that objection, right? So I'm curious to hear the other ones.

Yeah, yeah. Because for that one, it's like, it's a bit moot. It is because if you think that you're hiring a trainer for information, we're starting out with the wrong assumption right out the gates. Because that's not what you're getting. That's not the value of a good coach. So a trainer should know exercises and proper technique and form and how to individualize it. That's actually the lowest bar right there, by the way.

That's the bottom. Like, if you don't know that, you have no, you shouldn't even apply to be a trainer. So we need to assume that when we're working with, like, that's the bottom, that's the bottom rung. Free information has been available for a long time. AI is new, but Google is not. Well, I feel like, fitness magazines are not. So it's not the information. I could tell you 100% and you can talk to any good coach or trainer that the one, and what I mean by good is the ones that were successful in the sense that their clients were able to.

develop this relationship with fitness, that they were able to maintain it long term, that it really changed their life, not just lose 30 pounds, but lose it and then keep it off forever. Was it the information that you gave your clients? Was that what did it? And they're all going to say no.

No, no. No, it was the guidance, it was the coaching, it was the being through this, going through this process. Well, it would be like comparing, reading Jordan Peterson's book or getting one-on-one counseling with him for three months, you know, like which one, I mean, I can always read his book.

and understand his philosophy and his belief and his 12 rules on life, but to sit in a one-on-one session with him every hour and let him dig into me and ask me questions where I mean, I think the value in what I get from that is completely different than what I get from picking that book up. No different than somebody who can go online prompt chat GBT to spit out a bunch of great information related to diet and exercise and all the stuff. It's like versus a coach who's meeting with you on a regular basis,

who is then taking all that knowledge that maybe all that information that the AI could spit out and then customizing it and applying it to and also disregarding things that are irrelevant to that person based on the phase or where they're at.

Let me hear the other ones because I'm curious with the... Well, I'm going to add one more thing. I think until AI can become human and you can develop a human relationship with them, it's just not going to... And by the way, there are people right now who develop relationships

with AI, and it's very problematic because AI is a validating machine. Yes. A good trainer. Reinforcer of bias. Is not a validating machine. They'll validate when appropriate. And other times, they won't. And they're also real.

They're human. And so you have a real relationship. So I just, if you're just looking for information, that's already been there. The next one is, it's not personalized. This is interesting to me. I don't, that's kind of what trainers do. So this must be a bad. Well, no, I think that's a fair.

I think this goes back to what I've definitely tried to argue or say many times when we bring up personal training is that there still is a smaller percentage of great coaches. Yeah. I think at least half or more than half are entry level, non-experienced, you know, fresh out of school, fresh off the certification. and I think what makes a really good coach and trainer is somebody who's worked with people for years. And so otherwise, and I know I'm guilty of this. I know I'm guilty at least the first couple years of all my clients were doing the same workouts.

Yeah. You know, like for sure was... And then they ask each other, they find out. Yeah, this still persists, like the chalkboard kind of workout. And then, yeah, I think the limitation of the coach's knowledge but then also, too, I think that influencers fall in this category of, you know, really showing and portraying this healthy image, but then they go into the coaching space without really the knowledge of personal training, and they give everybody kind of this same carbon copy experience.

Yeah, but let me add a little bit to that because personalization isn't just a unique workout. I had a lot of clients whose workouts look very similar. That's not the personalization I think is important. Yeah, definitely you adjust exercises and technique. But what AI will do is analyze data. Data is important. A personal trainer takes into account things like effort, mood, attitude. Stress.

Sometimes the data says one thing, but when you're with your client, you know it's still not the right thing. Sure. So there are many times when the data would have said, my client needs to have a hard workout. But I know them, because I've been working with them for months or years. We're talking. I'm like, no, no, no, what do you need to bring up? now is something totally different. I know he's got good sleep, but I could tell he's off a bit, and it's probably not a good

idea. And a good coach will do this, whereas AI is not going to be able to do this. It won't be able to do this for two reasons. One, it will only be able to work with the information you give. Many times clients don't even give that information. Yeah. The coach's job is the prod. Or read.

Yeah, to exactly, to observe. And you know when, you know, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, a little more. You have to pull back a bit more. And, you know, the individual is just going to kind of look at it as like, this is my plan. I have to stick with this, you know, hell or high water. You as a coach are like, this isn't benefiting. I have to like, you know, we have to bring the intensity level down. And they're not really aware of that.

There are times when I've pushed clients who said that they needed an easier workout. and they probably would have benefited physiologically, maybe like physically from an easier workout, but they were afraid of the intensity. And so I was trying to help them get over the fear. And I didn't overdo it, but it was a help to become more comfortable. I've also had the reverse.

I've also had the fanatic who's doing everything perfect, and I'm trying to get them to be okay with having the occasional easy workout. And so my job is to convince them and coach them through that process. In other words, they're not coming in giving me the data. No.

This is what I'm reading as a good coach, and AI won't be able to do that. AI will read your data. So it might be able to read your heart rate variability at some point. It's going to read your sleep score, maybe a grip strength test. And then you're going to say, tell me what to do. And then you're going to follow it.

And it's not going to be able to read what's going to be. Yeah, health and biometrics, but not like a lot of psychology, which is pretty much the majority of coaching. Yeah, I would make the case that, one of the most valuable things aside from what you guys already touched on, you know,

with modifying the workout is actually the in-between sets, you know, talking about my client and, you know, managing stress, getting better sleep. Educating. Yeah.

Prepping meals, good choices, you know, like, like that's, that happens during that hour is a lot of conversation of, you know,

I had a really hard time hitting my protein intake yesterday. Oh, well, tell me what you had. oh, I ate this. Oh, you know what, try this. This has worked really well for a lot of my clients.

I mean, that's just on the fly while you're working out. There's no metric that. There's no data you're going to plug in to spit off something like that. Like it's just so there's other things outside of the workout to your point that the trainer is going to be able to do. And again, AI is not going to be able to or it won't look the same, I should say. Yeah, I think for the extremely dedicated, consistent. I'm never missing a workout no matter what. I'm a high-level athlete.

I'm already working with a coach. AI data can be great. You know, you plug in the data. This is what it says. I'm already training anyway. She's like Strava. Well, I was going to say, do you think it's much... Strava client.

Is it much different than Strava or Fitbit? Sure. I mean, it's very similar, right? Like an assistant to the coach. It just interprets it. Yeah. Like, I mean, I find my warring to be extremely beneficial for me. Yeah.

You know, because it's just another data point that I can, look at, for example, I've been talking about my sleep for quite some time. And so I'm constantly tweaking these things and then referring to that and going like, oh, okay, that's working or that's not working. And so, but it's not the end all, be all for sure. Sometimes there's trust, too. Like a client could come in with all the right measurements. I never use these things, by the way, for this particular reason. But there were a couple times I had clients that were really into data with their Fitbit and all that stuff. I even had a client that would measure heart rate variability before it was even a thing. Yeah. And they could

come in and all the measurements could look good. Everything says that they're great. But then they tell me, listen, man, I'm not feeling too great. Yeah. You know what? I'm going to listen to you, John, at this moment. You know best. You need to know that you can trust me.

Yeah. You know, and this is just kind of, again, one of those relationship things. Here's another one. This one's one of my favorites. People cancel because of boring workouts. So here's what I'm going to say. I made this mistake as a trainer. I thought the excitement of the workout.

You got to cater to that. was what made things effective. Like the workout is different and razzle-dazzle and we're hyped and I'm like, ah, you're having fun and we're doing all this new stuff. And today we're going to try something crazy that you've never done before. We're going to restrict your breathing today with a mask. I'm going to tell you something right now. The workouts that I did with my clients in the back half of my career,

if you looked at the workouts themselves, you'd be like, that's the most boring workout at risk of my life. And yet my clients never missed, showed up all the time. I mean, that's a, that's a lack of education. on the trainer right there, right? So that's because I agree. I was 100% the same way fell into the trap of trying to dazzle my clients with unique exercises

every time they came in versus these are the five these are the five most effective things we can do and we're going to do a lot of it and get really good at it. A good, like a veteran coach, like what you would communicate that right now, though, versus the mistake that the young trainer makes is maybe they program some of that in there And then the client goes, hey, this is boring.

Can we do something else? And then the trainer, okay, versus me, the very first time I meet with you, this is obviously veteran, older version, right? So it's like, hey, we're going to do a handful of things. And it's going to get boring. It's going to feel like this is redundant, this and that. But trust me, this is the most effective way to get to the place that you want to get to, if you just trust me.

So like learning to communicate that early on that you're going to feel bored sometimes with these workouts because they're going to seem like, oh, it's the same stuff all the time. But that's how you get good at those things. And getting good those things is what's going to render the most results. And that, but you're saying this on a podcast, but I mean, when you're with a, listen, here's a deal. If a workout, if a client thinks a workout is boring, because the trainer's boring. Yeah, you're a boring person.

It's not because the workout's boring. Listen, I had clients for me for 12 years. I know, dude. Never missed. Do you think that they needed me to take them through? Some of these people were like really old, so they couldn't do many other, too many exercises. Do you think that they were showing up? not knowing.

Yeah. What's the new surprise? You've been with me for 12 years. You know what we're probably going to do, but you love being with me. That's totally true. I mean, there was like some overcoming that in the beginning,

though, for sure, because people come in with expectations, they see all the fancy, you know, P90X workouts and things on TV, and they're like, where's all this?

And it's like, no, this is what works. And then you literally have to just have conversations with them and be entertaining. And that's the job. That's like what you have to do.

You know what it is, is if you're a training, and you don't want to be there, they're not going to be there. Yeah. Want to be there. If you love what you're doing. If you love what you're doing, I guarantee they won't feel bored. Yeah.

And, you know, as far as a workout's concerned, like, do what's right, and the person will be engaged with you. That's the most important thing. Next step is scheduling issues. I guess this is a real, a real concern. I guess AI is always available. So at any moment or time, I don't know how you would overcome this with a trainer. I guess if you like your trainer, but you can't meet with you anymore, then I guess that's a thing. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I mean, this is a, this is a comment. I mean, when you survey a bunch of people and say, what are the reasons why you quit, this would obviously come up there. I think we've all seen scheduling conflicts with clients before, and it's part of the business. I don't know how much AI, like you said, AI is available 24-7. Yeah. But I don't know if that's like if- I don't know if it solves the problem because I hate saying this.

because this sounds very invalidating. But oftentimes not having enough time isn't really the issue. Now, I know some people have more time than others, obviously. But regardless of what your schedule looks like, in my experience, the people that are successful carve out however much time they can and stay a window. And stay consistent. Yeah, even if it's just like a brief, like one or two days a week where you have like that one little chunk. I've never had anybody.

Even the busiest clients I've ever had that actually. actually figured this piece out would tell you they gained all that time back and so. Totally. Of course. So that the, the hurdle is when you are that person, kids, work, you got a ton of stuff on your plate that it doesn't seem feasible to me. I know what that, I understand that feeling. Totally.

But the reality is if you find a way to make two to three hours out of the week, whether that's broken up or, you know, one or two days or whatever, but find that time to carve that out for yourself and then you become consistent with that. What you'll find is you'll get every bit of that time. And I think, I don't know. Productivity. I think there's studies say like four times that back. Something ridiculous.

Yeah. And so what you thought you lost, you actually gained because of productivity. And so, but you first have to take that leap of figuring. I'll also say this when it comes of scheduling and time. The least successful strategy with, not saying that you can't be successful this way, It's just really rare. The least successful strategy with schedule is to do this. I'll work out whenever I find time.

And then you just go about your week. That almost never works. I've seen it work, I think, once with people have a home gym. Always behind. We're very dedicated. Like, that doesn't work. What typically works is you carve out a little bit of time. Whatever that looks like, 20 minutes once a week.

I don't care. And then you make it happen. So that's where I think the solution is with that one. And then lastly, this one's crazy to me. And this definitely falls on the trainer. But the last reason, you guys want to know what the last reason is? Let's see here. We got two sugar.

This is the last number six. The trainer doesn't practice what they preach. Ooh. What? Yes. Now, this is the trainer's fault. And I don't mean it's because the trainer isn't perfect, but the trainer presented themselves is perfect. That's your fault, dude.

You need to tell. Chastising them and then they see him at Burger King. Yeah, dude, you got to be real. First of all, it'll make you a more effective trainer. Like the most effective trainers are the ones that clients think are like real people. Yeah. That also struggle with diet sometimes. That also, you know, are challenged.

That's the most effective. But if you present yourself as like this perfect fitness God and then you hammer your client for every little mistake, there's no grace, which is a terrible strategy. The second they see you slip up, they're like, screw you, I'm out of here. Do you think it's more of that? Or do you think these are people that are judging the trainer because the trainer is not as fit as they would want? This is people canceling their training So they hired them in the first place for a reason So I don't think it's I don't think it's that

But I mean if we go on that path Yeah if you look really at it Because maybe that's how Because imagine you hire somebody And maybe they're not the most jacked Greek god looking trainer But they're like they look like they're semi fit But then you start training with them

And you realize oh my God They eat like crap and this and then it's like And then you're like okay I'm not So you think it's more the trainer presenting themselves Yeah I think that's only a problem if the trainer hammers the client for every little mistake they make, hides the fact that they struggle, and then the client finds out.

I think if you're honest, especially if you struggle. Look, there's people who really struggle with weight. And if they hire a trainer who also struggled with weight, who now maybe has lost a lot of weight but tells them, I still struggle with this, man. This is like, hey, I know you screwed up last night. Listen, I screwed up last week.

I know this is really hard. That is a very powerful, an effective relationship building strategy. It works. Builds trust. You sell yourself as something you're not. And then your client kind of finds out. And you shame them on top of it.

They're not going to want to work with you. It's just not going to happen. And AI, I don't know how AI works around that. I guess what? AI is a, what do they look like? I don't know. How do we fix that? Yeah, I mean, I think we're finding more and more.

I mean, AI is going to be this incredible tool for a lot of reasons, but there's a lot of things that I don't think it's going to replace. I mean, we all agreed. No, professions that require human connection. It won't. It won't. No. No, it'll be a poor substitute.

Poor. It'll be really poor substitute. The day that AI replaces humans for human connection, we have way bigger problems than not having jobs. Sure. Like way bigger problems at that point. Hey, you referenced P90X. Yeah.

Did you see? Uh-uh. They're reviving that. No, they're not. Yes, they are. Doug, Google, Google, uh, P90X. Like big health problems right there for a minute. So I don't know who they're using a different model.

Yeah. And I, but I just saw this that P90X revival. Wow. See what it comes up. Beach Buy is trying to make a comeback. Yeah. Wow. You get marketed by a mind pump.

Yeah, I know. I like that. The first thing that came up. I like that. Nobody bought everything else. So it's called P90X Generation Next. Oh, so it launched on February 3rd. I didn't even know that.

Oh. See, show me the image. Wait, wait, hold on. Here we go. There we are. Just. Interesting, they brought it. They're going to be able to revive this, huh?

Well, I mean, it's sold a lot. Yeah. It's a name. Yeah, it's a household name because of all the money they put in. Maybe that, I mean, is that true that maybe they, they sold so many millions of copies that even the, you know, hundreds of thousands of people that have moved on and like, this beach body is whack is going, there's, there's still hundreds. I wonder what they're doing this time.

There's still hundreds of thousands more that will be like, I've been waiting for the new generation to be 90s. They still got the flag in their garage. Listen, I'm going to just read, I'm just going to read some of their training pillars. Let's hear. I want you guys just to be okay. Yes. All right. I'm already reading it right now.

Over here. Inside my body, I feel. I feel bristling. Yeah. So there's three core modalities training pillars. There's metabolic overload. Metabolic overload. Strength and power moves with minimal rest to build muscle.

Cardio, you won't build muscle doing that. There's neuro performance. Neuro. Drills for coordination, reaction, time, and speed. More cardio. Keep going. Active recovery. Purposeful, mobility, and flexibility.

It's moving while you're supposed to be resting. More cardio. Where's the muscle confusion? That was like their whole thing. I want to be confused. You know what it is? It's three modes of different cardio. It's a confusion muscle.

Yeah, 30 to 45 minutes a day for seven days a week. Oh, my God. Intense training. 45. Okay. Yeah, you guys. What are they selling it for? Can we look up how, what's the pitch?

Let's see here. You guys, I started this new program. I'm losing weight. It's crazy. Really? What are you doing? Going crazy seven days a week. Seven days a week.

Only $10 a month. $9.99. Oh, it's monthly. You got to pay monthly. 145 workouts total? Yeah. Holy moly. That's a lot of workouts.

Well, they got seven days to fill, so. Yeah, they got to be stack. I mean, a great transition from our conversation. We're just having, you know, talk about, you know, just doing a bunch of creative shit for your clients. You know what I'm saying? Put together 145. Yeah, I'll tell you this. AI's better than that.

Yeah. It's on, I think it's on par. AI is, well, it's better. It's cheaper. AI's free. I mean, they might have used AI to build. That's what I mean. I bet she's run by AI.

You can go on your AI right now and be like, I want a 30 to 45 minute nonstop moving workout for 145 days. Different workouts every day. Done, free. Just say, hey, everybody, I just saved you. You know, 50 bucks or whatever. Hardcore yoga. Just throw that in there.

You know, the hardest part about the biggest challenge for the consumer, because I think AI could be a great tool. I use AI all the time. We use it within the business is, the prompting piece because if you don't know how to prompt it correctly for you as a client.

Yeah, what to ask it. That's the part that would be challenging. Like my, okay, so my, both my brother-in-laws were using AI for this stuff. And, you know, when they show me what they had, I was like, okay, that's pretty decent. It's a good, generic workout

and kind of plan for you. But like, when I sat down with them, like we spent an hour on the phone talking, And it was just like, I'm asking all these questions. And then I go, okay, this is where I want you to start. This what you want you to do this and don't do that. And he's just like, what? That's all like different.

It's like, well, yeah, because because you told me this. Yeah. And then you told me that. Right. So I know, if I knew all that information about him ahead of time, I could then go to a prompt and go, hey, spit me off a workout based off of somebody who does, who has this issue, has only been training for this long, can only do this, is eating this meat. Like, if I knew, if I was prompting the AI, I could have gave him a better.

set up than what he got. But since he, as a consumer, doesn't know better, he just goes, I want to get in shape. Yeah, if you have a coach brain that can ask. That's what I mean. So that's the problem here is that, like, someone's going to make the argument that, oh, you can totally, I'm sure we have a listener who's a trainer.

Our coach is like, oh, I definitely think you can use it. It's like, yeah, that's your trainer brain that knows how to prompt it. And so that, but the problem's going to be people won't know. They don't know what they don't know. Yeah. So they don't know what to ask you. I have a good example of that, dude. It's kind of, it's related.

But even then, they're like, oh, do you feel like you can keep going? Keep going. Yeah, that's AI, dude. I had, my cousin, this was last, this was months ago. He had this really weird, like, back pain. His back was hurting, and his shoulder was hurting. He was so, he's in so much, like, upper, mid-back pain, low back pain, shoulder pain. He had to stop training jujitsu.

couldn't figure out what's going on, went to the doctor, like, oh, maybe you got injured while you were training. And it was just, this was like two months of just so much pain. You had to take, like, medication to sleep and was doing massage and went to the chiropractor. And the doctors were like, it must be your training. Maybe you need a time off. Maybe you got an injury. They did imaging. Couldn't figure what was going on.

So he came and was telling me about this. And this goes to your point about knowing what to ask. Yeah. So him and I are talking. And I'm just randomly, I'm thinking. thinking to myself, I'm like, wait, didn't you say a couple months ago your kids had like this random fever and then they had kind of like a little rash? And he goes, yeah. And I'm like, I wonder if any of those childhood diseases, because there's these diseases that kids get

that we become immune to when we get them. And then we're adults want to get them anymore. But sometimes you don't, you never get it. You never got it. And so as an adult. So as an dog box is example. You get it really bad as an adult. And it's different symptoms. Yeah, yeah. So I said, what did your kids have? And so we started asking them questions. I'm like, bro, I think. And I said, didn't you get kind of sick? He's like, yeah, it was mild. So I looked it up. and I said, I think this is what you got. And I looked up the symptoms of what it is for an adult. And it looks like severe arthritis throughout your whole body.

And that was what it was. He brought to the doctor and the doctor was like, oh, yeah. But had we not know what to ask? This poor guy was freaking out. He's like, am I dying? Oh, wow. He's very active, thick guy. Yeah, yeah.

But nobody knew what to ask. There was no, he didn't know. He didn't know the two could be connected. It's like he went to the doctor and said, hey, I've got all his back pain. He does jiu-jitsu and he works out. That's what he thinks is going on. Yeah. He doesn't think.

Oh, yeah, my kids had a fever. Yeah. Do you think there's a connection? Yeah, yeah. You know? So it's like, if you don't know what to ask or what to connect, your information is only going to be as good as what you. No, that's exactly right.

I think that's going to be the biggest hurdle with people that are trying to use it is that they won't know what to ask it or prompt it. And it's going to be tough. And it's going to require a good coach or to a trainer to do that, you know, so. I got to tell you guys about my daughter, my three-year-old. I almost filmed that I didn't because I was. And if she sees me filming this, it won't be good. But, dude, she threw this.

She's so dramatic, dude. She threw this just the most. So she's been having these, like, little tantrums with Jessica. And I haven't seen the big ones yet. So, you know, praise God, he's been, you know, saving me from these. But I haven't seen any of them yet. But I've seen some of the, some, I've gotten a little taste of just the drama that happens. And so with toddlers, they call them terrible twos.

Threes, you talk to any parent. Threes and fours can sometimes be. worse. And so she's in the stage now where she's like defiant and like you could try to discipline her and she'll just one up you. Like you could you could even be like, look, if you don't do, if you if you don't stop doing that thing, I'm going to throw away your toy. She'll take the toy and throw it away herself and then continue to like, she'll one up you. And you're like, what do I do? Anyway, we were all hanging out and it was just me and the two little ones. And I'm like, hey guys, all let's clean up the playroom. And then we get to, we'll watch this movie. And so

they're all excited. So they all did that. And then there was one one toy, little toy. It was on the floor In the hallway 10 feet from her room And it was her toy So they're all done Everybody's happy High fives

I'm like oh hey Dahlia one more toy Get that and put it in your room Oh No I don't want I said it's one It's one toy

Just pick it up I said honey We're not gonna watch We're not gonna do the thing Unless you pick that up And bring it to your room Uh She gets on the floor

She grabs it And army craws So slowly to her room While going Uh I don't want to do. Like she's in pay. Bro, it takes her 15 minutes, goes in a room,

and then she army crawls back on her back. She's sliding back on her back. Ah, flopping around the whole time. I'm like, wow, dude. This is amazing right now. It was like 20 minutes, dude. A lot of effort, too. Now, does Jessica let you know, like, on a scale of 1 to 10

what that is rated to what she's seen? I know that what she's like, honey, that's like a three. Yeah, for sure. She's like, that's a three. You haven't seen a nine or ten yet. She'd see so much like my older daughter. My older daughter was little. She would throw these tantrum.

I remember thinking like there was one time I had to get her in her car seat and she wouldn't get in her car seat. And she was three maybe. And she would stiff in her body so I couldn't get her in the seat. So I had to like physically use my strength to like push her in there and lock it in. And she freaked out so much. She took her shoe off. She threw it at her mom.

And I remember thinking of myself like, if we had a way to capture this energy, this would be like, we could help. bottle it. Oh, yeah. You got a power hole city. Dude, I had that same thing like Everett. It was totally different because you think like the car is, that's your safe haven.

That's like where you drive around the block and they're going to go to sleep and everything's going to be great. And every time we'd go to put them in, it was like you're putting them in a straight jacket. Dude, some kids are like that. Some kids love it. Some kids hate it. Swinging at me and screaming. And I'm like, oh my God. It was just the car seat.

It's just like he did not like to be confined. Yeah. I was like, we can't go anywhere. Like, we're never going to go anywhere. It's so wild how some kids are so opposite like that. Like some kids are just like resistant to that. And then other kids are like, oh, really? Oh, really?

Go to sleep right away. Yeah, that's Max. Yeah. Max can be in one of the loud cars, dude. Yeah. See, like, I'm like, oh my God, dude. How's that? I've seen it.

With top down. Wind blowing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And he's just like this. Like, oh, yeah. Just cannot figure. it out, dude. I do remember, though, when he was a baby, so when we lived over by the coast and he, I would take him for nap time. I would just throw him in the car and the car seat and we would just cruise one and just drive along the coast. Yeah, I'd play music and just. You get to go on a drive. Yeah, yeah, I get to go on a drive and he'd fall asleep. So we've been doing that since he was a baby.

So I wonder if it has something to do with that that from infancy, you know, I'd put him in that car seat and we would just drive for a nap time. I was just talking with Aurelius yesterday. I don't know where this came up and he goes, is it true that when you were little, you guys didn't have car seats? And so I'm explaining to him the whole thing. I'm like, no, we didn't have any car seats.

He's like, where did you sit? I said, anywhere we wanted. You sat in the front. You sat in my mom's lap. I sit on the dashboard. I was like, we'd crawl around the back and play. He's like, the police didn't stop you? I'm like, there was no loss.

And then he goes, there were no laws. I'm like, well, not that. There were laws. He's like, didn't they care about kids? I mean, they did, but they just, different energy. Katrina, he gets so mad.

I let Max, I let Max ride in the front seat all time. Katrina gets so mad. You're not supposed to do that. I'm like, dude, he's freaking, he's almost five foot already. His legs are dangling off this. He's in a booster seat

and his legs are still almost touching the ground. I'm like, this is ridiculous. Oh, yeah. I've been sitting in the front seat like, years before that, dude. He's fine. He's gonna be totally fine. I know.

Like, wearing helmets riding bicycles, you know? It's like, I'm like hammering the kids about just because, you know, Courtney's like freaks out about it. And I'm like thinking like, I never wore helmet, dude. Ever, ever. If you were a kid. I never wore a helmet. If you wore a helmet in the 80s or 90s, you were 100% going to get bullied. Yeah.

Yes. For sure. Everybody like, why are you wearing a helmet? Yeah. If you rolled up, like, because we all used to meet as kids, we all met. after like school, all the bikes from all the neighborhood. I get punk. If you were the kid that rolled up, the one kid.

I don't remember. Hey, guys. What's up safety? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. When I used to go to work with my dad, he, uh, in his work van, he had this old work van. Yeah. And, uh, it was a two-seater because the back was all open.

That's what he'd fill it up with, sit on one of those crates. Listen, no, a milk crate, right? They used to fill it with sand or, you know, materials. And he would have a, his helper. And I'd sit. the middle, he made a wooded box. And that's what I'd sit on. Yeah, I've sat on milk crates before.

Did you? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I don't know what my dad was thinking. He's like, I'm going to make this more safe. He gave me a little rope that I put him up. Like a bungee cord. Like a bungee cord over your lap. I just said you got to stop up.

Dude, I told it before, but I would usually, dude, we'd just sit in the back of my dad's pickup truck. Oh, with the gas. The gas tank was right here. Yeah. And it just, just fuse. Maybe that's why I'm buffering all the time. I'm a little time.

I'm sorry. attribing it to that. He's not all the football trauma. It's not the football. It's a gas. Gasoline, dude. Well, my dad, it was even worse than his genet, especially because he was poor. He was operating heavy machinery when he was 13.

He tells me a story of how he drove a cement truck up into the hills, and he'd have to put it in first gear to make it. And he's telling me the story of how the road is so narrow that he had, he had his buddy hanging out the side looking down to make sure that they didn't fall off the cliff. And they're going up. And they're going up like five miles an hour, 10 miles an hour. And as he's telling me the story, I'm like, that's terrifying, this and that. And then I'm like, I just thought to myself, like, you should ask him how old he was? I'm like, how old were you when you're doing that? He's like, oh, no, 13, 12 people are.

Oh, my God. That was what you were doing, dude. That's crazy. That's wild. I know, I know. That's a good time. Anyway, I wanted to ask you about you were saying off air how you've been using, well, I'll just, I'll prompt you. Honey.

On your ribs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are you doing? Yeah, so I use the monocura on there now. So the monocora. Did I say it right, monocora? Monocora. Yeah, I used the monocora honey on there now.

Is it better than just your regular old... I do like the taste of it. So I've grown to really like it. I've also used it when I were... Since the last time we talked about them, I had gotten sick. And so I was taking, like... I noticed a difference. I took a table...

Hot water, lamb... Yeah, and... I make a hot toddy and I use it inside there. So that's been like my go-to move. But for my ribs, I'll make my... ribs where I do the first three-hour smoke and then after that in fact I'm doing it today right so I'll do a three-hour smoke I'll have Katrina it's already prepped so I've already seasoned it and everything and then I'll tell her around one o'clock hey throw it in at 220 she'll put it in the smoker you'll sit in there for three hours and then I already have on the counter right now I set up so she in case I don't make it

home in time she can just throw it on there my foil and then I have brown sugar the monocura honey and then butter and then the rack of ribs sit in that and then you wrap it all up and then you put it back in and then like just the juices and the honey well it's it's it's a it's a medicinal nutrition nutritional kind of based honey so like there's honey and there's monocora yeah like this is this stuff is like gold well you got me you got me using it for the cold i'd already been using it for things like this but i didn't think about using it for the cold what's the ingredient is mgO mgill okay this is a compound in honey that has these incredible medical and health benefits.

And the amount that's in Manukora is significantly higher that we'll find in other... Do we know what the comparison is? I know you've talked about it before. Yes. Yes. Thugs are going to pull it up right now. But it's significantly higher. You'd have to buy or take a lot more of the of another brand to get the same amount of the,

of the MGO. But MGO is antimicrobial. Yeah. It's got anti-inflammatory benefits. It's pro gut health. And this particular type of honey that they make, that they get, I should say, is the highest percentage of MGO versus the other ones. Oh, it even has, that's what the number 850 means on it.

Yeah, so there's a rating. And I've seen, there's other ones I've seen before that have number that aren't as high as that. I think other ones are like 60 or something. Yeah, they vary quite a bit. But this is, Monacoa is definitely some of the highest I've ever seen. It's the highest. You know what it's good for that I think it's really good for. So we talked about this years ago,

but this is important to talk about. When you look at people, when you look at populations with gut health issues, it's really interesting. There's this really strange, we know why, but when they first discovered this, they were like,

this doesn't make any sense. You expect people with poor health, poor health habits who don't exercise to have gut health issues. And that is the case. Yeah. That is the case. they have a higher percentage of gut health issues for people who eat like garbage,

who smoke, who don't exercise, right? But then on the other side of the spectrum, people who exercise a lot actually have a higher rate of gut health issues than people in the middle. And they couldn't figure out what was going on. Why is that the case? These are like really fit athletic people.

And it's because when you're training at that level, you do cause systemic inflammation. And you're encouraged, and this isn't a bad thing, but this does increase the risk. You're encouraged to eat or take a protein shake or something like that right after you work out. Yeah, when you're all inflamed at the same time, yeah. Right.

And so a lot of gut health issues can start, many of them can start with inflammation. And when your gut is, because your whole body's inflamed from a hard workout, you're including your gut. And when your gut is inflamed, the junctions, the tight junctions that seal your gut

can become spaced out and can cause things to pass through. And so what you'll see is sometimes people develop food intolerances with the foods that they eat post-workout. So it's like, I can always have dairy. Now I can't have dairy. Well, your shake is dairy. Or I could always eat eggs.

Now I can't have eggs. Well, you eat eggs, you know, post-workout. So Monucora, because post-workout, it's good to have a little carbohydrates with some protein. Monocora is good for your gut. It's anti-inflammatory and could help with the maintaining of the junctions. Oh, interesting. So if you want some carbs post-workout, honey, people have been using honey for a long time. Post-workout.

Honey is a natural post-workout. Honey is a natural post-wlaborate. workout carb. Athletes have been using that for a long time. Monu Kora would have some protective effects. So you would add that, tablespoon to two of that with your shake. Now you've got your carbs and your protein. Oh, smart. And it's got some protective. Oh, interesting. That's actually a cool idea. Sweeten it up really nice too. Yeah, yeah. And it tastes really good. Yeah, you brought up talking about my ribs and stuff like that. You know, a butcher box has been, I still have yet to find anybody else that does ribs with that. I know Doug has done it. Have either one of you guys

ordered their stuff? Have you used their ribs? Have you cooked their ribs? I don't make ribs, but I've had yours and Dugs, and I've had other people's ribs. And then was it at your house? Yeah. It was someone's house where they had... I know Courtney reached out for that recipe because we've been trying to get the butcher box version of it, for sure. Well, it was...

I think it was your house. We were all eating over there, and you had the butcher box ribs, and then you had to bought extra another brand. Oh, it might have been. Yeah, because if I run out, I have to order something else, and if I'm cooking ribs for everybody, I'm like... They don't taste. They taste way better.

No, they're nowhere near as tender. And it's because it's kind of pig, right? Yeah, I believe it's a heritage pork pig, which is a certain breed. Oh, I thought it was what they feed on that. Well, it could be that as well. Yeah, absolutely. I did ribs for a friend of mine, and he could not stop eating them. He goes, why are these ribs so good?

Yeah. And, I mean, I told them it's the way I cooked them, but the truth was they were the butcher box ribs. I mean, it takes both. I mean, you still got to be decent. You know what you're doing and stuff like that, but it's, they're definitely, there's a huge difference. And we'll, Katrina and I will just, we'll eat a rack each, and that's like dinner. Oh, yeah. Just sit down and eat a whole rack.

They're so good. They are so good. I also like their ground beef, because I was over in my parents' house this weekend. They were barbecue. We had like a barbecue. It's like burgers and sausages. That's what Italian is instead of hot dogs. And we were all eating them.

And my dad bought the Costco burger patties. Yeah. So it's just regular beef. I don't like, I think when it comes to ground beef, I like the grass fed better. They just don't taste as greasy. Oh, so with ground beef. I prefer that. I was just going to say,

if I go to like a fancy restaurant. Yeah, if I get like a rib eye, yes. And then traditional's got that. Then I'll, I'll prefer a grain fed. But ground beef? The ground beef is better grass fed.

Because the other one's so oily. It's too oily. And it's so like, 100% I agree. So you see me, I make that. It doesn't taste as good. I've been posting it almost every time I've been prepping the,

the, the ground beef and the mushrooms and onions. And I've gotten a bunch of people DM and me that have been, that have been doing that same exact recipe. And I prefer the, butcher box ground beef when I do that for sure. It's it's otherwise it just gets too oily.

And then it sits at the bottom and it's not as good. So I like the breakfast sauce is super convenient. It's like a patty. And here's the thing. We're flying out of the house early in the morning. Now the kids eat in a lot more. So like especially Ethan, he'll eat like two of those patties and then like three eggs and then stuff it into like a sandwich and he eats like every morning.

Dude, he's getting huge. And so that just comes in the clutch. We've been, I mean, the last, you know, month or so, I've been using and going through just bags of those things. I was just talking to my brother. So my brother's having a third kid. Did I tell you guys this? Did you know that?

Three? He's got a third one coming. Oh, right on. Boy, we just found out that's another way. He's got three boys. He's going to have three boys. Oh. And so my brother, when he was a wild house.

And he's a, he was a great. He's a great. He's a great father. I love seeing him with his kids. It warms my heart because he's such a good day. He's such a loving. engaged good dad but when he was little

my brother was I don't know nuclear power I guess he would say he was on fire all the time like drove my mom crazy constantly running constantly moving constantly climbing

breaking things it was just it was it was insanity he has two boys that are just like him right now so he's got two sons that are just like him too

you can't get mad at them because they're so loving they'll come up to you and they'll hug you and if you pick them up they'll cuddle with You're just so loving, but you put them down and they're tearing my, you know, because I said we were having a barbecue yesterday, they're tearing my dad's tree down, they're throwing lemons, they're fighting,

you know, they're wrestling with each other, you know, they're, they're just nuts. They're just nuts, right? He's got two of them. He's going to have a third one. And so I was just talking with them, dude, and I'm like, bro, I'm like, first of all, God bless you. And his wife is so patient, too. So I'm like, you guys are the right people to have these kind of kids. I said, but also, bro, when those are teenage boys.

boys because they're big kids. It's funny. My niece was there. And she works at the kids club at a gym. And she's like, you know, I'm working with a lot of kids now. And I realize kids aren't supposed to be as big as your kids because they're big old kids. They're big sons. They're like, they're like my brother, big, big dudes.

So I'm like, man, when you're going to have three teenage boys in your house. Eat you at a house a man. Yeah, dude. You're going to have to, you better. You better make a lot of money. Are they shutting it down? Are they going to keep going? Is he trying to get a girl?

Do you know? Okay. So we'll have to wait a few years because you know how it is when you first have a Maybe. Yeah. I don't want to have any more. Yeah. I would love to have,

I would love to see him go for number four. Yeah. I want a little niece so bad, dude. Yeah. So bad. But three's, yeah, especially if the third boys,

like the other two boys, dude. Oh my God. Oh, my God. I feel like three of any sex is a lot. Three girls, three boys, three of the same sex.

I feel like parents just need a little, a little bit of a breakup. You know what I'm saying? Like you just need a little, a little change of pace. Three of the same of anything is, is just every parent I know that has three girls. or three boys.

It's just like, that's a lot. It's a lot to have three of the same. Well, I could see three teenage girls. Obviously, I'm being stereotypical, but I could see three teenage girls making you want to pull your hair out. But three young boys, that's a lot, dude. You know, especially active boys.

You know, you've been around little active boys. Yeah. Don't buy anything expensive. It's, bro, dude. He breaks stuff all, his older one, breaks stuff all the time, dude. Yeah. Yeah, he's get real durable furniture,

you know, make sure you get the scratch-proof, floors and you know hey speaking of boys uh weren't you uh on the side of the road with your boys car yes what happened to that did you see that no these guys got like i heard for like three hours yes three hours his new car broke down yeah so we were that sucks and we were just taking it because um well it got smogged before and this was on like the cellar to smog it but it just like that window where we were like registering it had like expired and so we're like oh man and so we have to go smog it ourselves. We go to smog it and it's like it was the RPMs are going way too high and and they were like running it, I think, for an hour or so just like, you know, pressure testing

it and whatnot. And they're like, you're going to have to take this to, you know, the mechanic to check it out. And so I was like, okay, I'll follow you. And I followed Courtney. It was driving it. And I was following her like, and we're just taking the side roads. And it was just like getting hotter and hotter and she pulls over. I'm like, oh, man, it's like, it's heating up on us. And I'm like, well, it's just wait a while. And I'm like, you know, testing the engine blocks, you know, hot is, oh, okay, it's not too bad. I'll get some coolant, throw some cooling in there, you know, go a little bit further. And we went like maybe another mile. And then like, she started getting a little bit of smoke coming through the vent. And like, it was, I'm like, dude, just stop, you know, like, we're just

going to park it here. And she parked unfortunately like right where like in this neighborhood where you have to like it's not like there was a side of the road where you could park. It was like right in the middle of the road. And so

everybody's like driving around us and like it was it. Dude, we were there just kind of sitting on the on the curb for looking at our phone and we kept looking for updates and it was like it was an update. It was like maybe 45 minutes. We're like, oh man. That's a long time.

But yeah, I guess we'll just wait 45 minutes. And, you know, somebody would come out of their house. You guys are doing all right? We're like, yeah, we're doing okay. Like really nice people, dude. Actually, like, made me, like, somewhat optimistic about people again. I was like, wow. Like, everybody in this neighborhood was super cool and nice and offering us drinks and things.

And we're just, like, sitting there. And then we go look at the update again. It's like two hours. And we're like, what? No, wait. It was like 15 minutes to two hours. It was at the window. And it just kept going.

going like back and forth and like changing on us forever. And we're just kind of laughing about it because we were kind of held hostage. But there's really nothing we could do. And dude, it was, man, it was brutal. We just kept waiting. And people driving by. And this one guy comes out and, like, was talking to us for a bit, sort of walk around. And then he just like, mind pump.

And they're like, walks away. You know, I'm like, cool. And Courtney's like, he just said, I'm like, what? I didn't catch that. And I'm like, why? Who does that? Like, who says like, mine? Pine pump.

He's like, he'll do that. Yeah, he's like all scared to talk to me or something. I'll get that like in the airport. I'll hear someone. Then I'll like turn around and look to have no idea where it came from, but I'll hear it. You know, where someone does that when you go by. Yeah. Did I tell you guys the, the, the, the, the, the, one of the people in there.

Shut up. Oh, yeah, dude. That's a great place to get recognized. Oh, it's the worst. It's the worst, dude. You know, you know, I'm getting set up and they're doing the thing. Cough, please. Yeah.

Hey, every, every, boy, balls are in head. Hey, you know, I know. you, right? Love your show. Hey. Yeah. No, dude, it was after. It was afterward.

Everything was done. You know what I mean? I'm all sad. Like, you got to eat a lot of protein, am I right? Healthy, healthy. You know, I listen for a while.

It's exactly how I picture it was. No, after we were done. After we're going to be... They're giving you all the instructions, you know? You got to do this. I'm on my way out. By the way,

really like your show. Yeah. At the end, when I'm leaving, I'm like, I guess it's better. I was just saying that's probably better. If they tell me before, I'm like, oh, man, this is awkward now. Yeah, yeah. Can you bring someone else in?

You know me too much. Oh, my God. That's funny. So did you guys get, so you guys finally get a towed three hours later? Yeah, well, where's the car? Finally toad. Yeah, so, yeah, we're finding out because, like, you know, it was the weekend. And so it's like, we just had to, like, drop it off, like, right at the place in the keys.

And so we're going to find out today since it's, you know, you know, it was over the weekend, what was wrong with it. But, yeah, I was just, like, Revin, the thing is, like, we already drove it from L.A. All the way up, no problems. And the thing about old cars, like, it just kind of, like, comes out of nowhere, you know? So I'm just, like, remembering all these things again. Like, you kind of forget, like, how all the little nuances and stuff, like, happens with these old cars. And, you know, it's so much fun, though, to drive with the manual.

stick shifts. Oh, yeah. I forgot, like, how just involved you are, like, in just the feel of everything and the sounds, and it's, like, so much of a visceral experience as opposed, so. Just downshift and revving. And I just found, like, a rad parking lot to really have, like, Ethan trying to open up, and I was waiting for, like, a good rain so we could go hydroplane and figure that out. My dad did that with me, and I was, I want to have a head. That's a great idea. Yeah. Go ahead. hit it hard, you know, and fish tail a bit, but, like, be calm and, you know, slowly correct it and kind of slide through it. And, yeah, all that stuff.

Like, I'd rather him learn there than just, like, be caught off guard. No, of course. I saw your daughter's park job, too. But that was for real? That was for real. She's like, did she not say anything? And she just came in the house and you just saw that? I went for a walk.

You went for a walk and you saw. Obviously, she didn't have a passenger on that. I mean, I'm trying to picture her. You know what I sent to her? What did you say? You guys know that GIF where Homer Simpson goes inside? Yeah, yes. I'm like, this is you.

You know, like, she was half in the bush. Yeah, she was half in the bush. Like, what are you doing, dude? Like, you can't tell me when she's parking. She doesn't hear, I'm like, what are you doing, dude? Like, I mean, do you just like, hear all that? You just, stop, get out?

I took a picture of it, and I sent it in a group text with Jessica and my niece. on her. Yeah. And I'm just, we're just teasing her making fun of her about it. I'm like, dude,

you're, you're gonna be that close to the bush. You can leave a little space, honey. You get a little space between. I was just picturing like if that was like

how she was pulling in then she just said, F it. Get out and just leave it. Because I feel like you do that you're like, oh, that's a little close. Back and back out.

Redo it. She just said, no, I'm committed. I'm committed. I'm committed to parking in the bush. I don't know, bro.

I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. Oh, I would have died if I would have came out and saw that, dude. It was hilarious. Element is an electrolyte powder. You add to your water. It tastes great, but there's no artificial sweeteners. There's no sugar.

And it has 1,000 milligrams of sodium per serving. Here's the problem with most electrolyte powders. They don't have enough sodium. Just sprinkling enough sodium. It doesn't make a difference. If you need electrolytes, if you'll benefit from electrolytes, if you sweat a lot when you work out, or you work in this.

sun or you're on a low carb diet, you're going to want sodium a decent amount in your electrolyte powder. That's what makes the difference. An element has a thousand milligrams and it tastes great and there's nothing in there that's artificial. Go check them out. Go to drink elemente.com forward slash mind pump. Now that link is going to get your free sample pack of their most popular drink mixed flavors with any purchase. Back to the show. Our first caller is Nikki from Georgia. Hi, Nikki. Hi, Nikki. Hey, how are you?

Good. How are we help you? Good. So my son is 15 years old, and he's been having knee pain when he does barbell squats, but he does not have that knee pain when he does box squats. So he'll do 225 for reps with barbell squats, but he can do 315 with box squats and not have any pain. So I was wondering what could cause that issue. His ankle mobility. Usually.

It's almost certainly that. So the reason why it doesn't bother his knees is because he doesn't have to go down very deep with the box squats. And so he's got that support. He can sit back on it. Where he gets barbell squats, his ankles need the mobility for his knees to travel forward. And because he lacks a little bit of that ankle mobility, he fills a stress in his knees. As his knees go to travel forward. That change of direction puts an excess amount of stress too.

So that box really helps to kind of slow that down. Yeah, let me ask you some more questions. Nick, is the box squat as deep as his regular squat? Um, not quite, no. Okay. Of course not. So, uh, so, so yeah, so A, number one, it's deeper. Uh, and then what Justin said, right, when you're going down and then you change directions,

there's a fraction of a second in which the weight is actually generating more force. Increases force. Than the weight itself because you need to change directions because now you're actually, you're not just lifting the weight. You're having to change the direction of the momentum. Okay. And in that change of direction, which a box squat, stops. So a box squat, as I sit, I don't need to change, I don't need to stop the momentum.

The box does that. And then I squat up. So even at the same distance, sometimes a box squat feels better on somebody's knees than a traditional squat because I'm not having to reduce or slow down or reverse change or change the direction of the momentum. So what happens is either the knees don't want to travel forward like Adam said or because there's a little lack of ankle mobility, there's a little torsion on the knee. You might not even be able to see it. right but when there's ankle mobility issues the feet want to do this they want to turn out but let's say his knees come in just a little bit on both yeah so that's so there it is so there's a compensation yeah it's a little bit of pain in the meniscus now there's something else here that

i want to address if you don't mind because i see your question there's more of your question you said that his doctor warned him that lifting too heavy would basically stunt his growth yeah so he had his physical um for football and he's six one and he wants to get taller. And so the doctor was like, well, just be mindful that, you know, lifting heavy is going to make your bones grow out and not up. And I was like, really? No, no.

I've never heard that before. And she's like, yeah. And so my son was like, mom, do I need to, because she's like, so you should do higher reps, lower weight. And I was like, I don't think that's a thing. No, so let me address this. It's not, Nikki. Because you're going to grow out, not up.

So there's some truth to it, but I'll explain what's going on. What true? Well, this is what's going on. At his age, he's not done growing, right? He's 15. Right. And there are growth plates that if they become damaged, will limit the growth of the bone.

Yeah, if you hurts himself. Right. And so the fear is with too much tension on the growth plates, they'll cause damage and then stop the growth. Now, here's why that's almost always not a problem. The amount of tension required to cause damage to a growth plate is incredibly high. Yeah, excessive amount. Okay, now here's, here's, this is a unique situation, though, Nikki,

because I'm going to just talk a little bit about your kid. He's 15, and he can squat 315 on a box, and he can rep out 225. He's strong. Dude, yeah. He's actually one of the strongest 15-year-olds in the world. He's a very strong kid. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. If he's doing legit squats, he's really strong. You said he's 6-1. How much does he weigh? 164. Yeah, he's crazy. He's strong. Yeah, he's strong.

So here's a deal. So what I'm going to tell you as his mom, okay? Okay. Because he's still growing. And so what happens when you're still growing is you don't have as much time to acclimate to your body, your body awareness. Do you ever own a dog and you see it grow into a large puppy and it's like super awkward? Yeah.

They just got to get used to their size. So this is your son right now at his age because he's going to keep growing. And, you know, he'll probably grow in spruce. like he'll grow three inches out of nowhere or whatever or he'll just gain all this muscle at nowhere and he's got a new body and so he has to acclimate to it and so because your son is so strong at his age I will encourage you now I don't think he's going to damage growth plates but I will say this uh I would be very mindful of pushing the weight only because your kid is hella strong he's already there he doesn't need what this is what I would do I'm gonna give I'm gonna

have Doug give you Prime Pro and have him do work on his ankle mobility because that is absolutely going to serve him. So to have him do ankle mobility stuff all the time. He can do he can work on it every day, multiple times a day. If he improves his ankle mobility, that's going to help a lot. Then tell him to get on Instagram and follow a page called Squat University. Their content is 100% built around improving the squat. And what he should do instead of trying to go get his weight higher than, because he's already really strong, would be to perfect his squat, is get better at the squat.

So his knees aren't caving in. His feet, so normally too, if a kid's knees are caving in, his feet are probably flattening a little bit, or his feet are turning out. So in Squat University, he talks all about this, about his foot placement,

about where his knees are at, and, like, just have him really dive into, like, perfecting the squat. Because if he just moves the weight, he's moving with a beautiful, perfect squat, pain free, he'll see gains and improvement just from that. It'll be better gains.

In fact, I'm going to send you another program that I think will be very valuable for your kid, which is symmetry. I think because of this, here's what will happen. If I take a 15-year-old playing football,

I'm going to get them strong at squats and deadlifts and overhead presses. Now, if I run into the 0.001% of 15-year-olds who can squat 315 on a box, I'm going split stance. He's already strong, yeah. Like, to get him in a, split stance is more applicable towards any sport.

And so to reinforce that and get stronger there in multiple planes, it's like he built the foundation. He established that. Like he's rock solid there. So now we got to kind of express it. Yes. We actually want to put some breaks on that kind of load with those exercises. And split stance exercises, unilateral exercises,

that'll improve his performance as much if not more at his strength. and it'll reinforce his stability so that when he's 18, 19, 20, he's in college, he starts squatting again. He's squatting 500 pounds, and he's got really good technique and no pain. Because what can happen at this age with that weight, because here's what happens,

there's always a risk of injury with exercise. The heavier the weight, the greater the risk of injury when you move outside of perfect. So like one degree outside of perfect with 100, you know, if he had 90 pounds on his back and he was one degree outside of perfect, his risk of injury is not that high. 300 pounds on a 15-year-olds back, one degree outside of perfect, risk of injury is kind of high. Right.

So because this is such an exceptional case, I'm like, I'm going to go unilateral pretty much all the time. He's going to do split-sance exercises. We're going to focus on technique. If a weight feels light, I'm going to make it feel heavier by slowing it down and by perfecting the technique, not by adding weight on the bar. Because, again, he's one of the strongest, if he's doing genuine squats, he's one of the strongest 15-year-olds in the nation. And so you want to be really smart about how he trains because you could develop, this kid will develop some incredible strength

so long as he's smart. We got to support that now and really reinforce the joints. All that squat university page. There's a ton of good information on there. It's completely dedicated to improve. Does you have a strength, like a personal trainer or coach? So I was training him and we were working out together. And then it got to the point where it's not real cool

to go to the gym with your mom. So then, he is actually, and they do, it's like seventh period football. So it's one of the coaches that runs the workouts. So that was what my next question, after this. So the workouts aren't the best. And he tells me, you know, what they do every day. And there's just, there's not a lot of structure to it.

It's kind of random. It's like wherever you can find a station, go do this. So how would you, if I give him symmetry, like, and we do that, how do you do that around these workouts that they're doing? Can you, do you have a, can he bring the, he can bring the, he can bring the blueprints in with him? I was just going to say, do you talk to the coach? Yeah, I can. Yeah, I'd say, hey, hey, coach, my son's got a little bit of knee pain.

He's really strong. I talked to some, you know, strength and conditioning experts. Tell us. They suggested that he do split stance exercises. So, you know, like lunges, Bulgarian split stance squats and that kind of stuff. Lateral lunges, I think I want him to focus on this during strength training. and the coach, I'm sure, is not going to care because he's trained a whole class.

I'm sure he's totally fine with it. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. All right.

Awesome. Keep in touch. Can't wait to hear about this kid. Stud. Yeah. Thanks. All right. You got it.

Yeah, 99.99% of the time when someone's like, you're going to stunt your growth at a 15-year-old. I'm like, get out of here. Then you get that occasional, listen, a 315 box squad, a 15-year-old kid, 22-year-old for reps. That's a strong-old. At a 16-year-old, he's a tall-old. He's a tall skinny kid.

And he's a tall skinny kid. Yeah, he's not, he's not like, I thought she was going to say like $2.50, like a big old. At least $185, maybe. Yeah, I thought he's going to be a big Limeon kid. Like a big, heavy-ass kid. Yeah, those are like Lyman numbers in high school. Yeah, and he's a freshman, right? Yeah, that's a freshman.

That's, it's right. Damn. Yeah, dude. Yeah, so. That's a force. So, again, typically, you, you're 15-year-olds, I'm like, squat. Let's get you strong as squats. But, dude, you're pushing that much weight at 100.

And you're a hundred. Yeah. And you're a tall, skinny kid? No. We're going to... I completely agree. Just split stance and, like, do the boil method from here. Yeah, bro.

Preserve. I mean, at this point, you're right. I mean, he could totally avoid bilateral squatting stuff for a year or two and then come back to it. He could avoid it all in high school. Seriously. This is going to be a 600 pound squatting college kid is what he's going to be. Yeah. Our next caller is Mike from Ontario.

What's up, Mike? What's happening? Hey there, fellas. I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me today. Much love from up here in Canada. How can we help you? All right. With respect to your time, I've consolidated this down the best way I can to point forms.

So a little bit about me. I was an obese child and teenager. I was five foot and 260 at my worst. I got into boxing in high school competitively. I did that for a couple of years. I got my first membership to a gym at 19 years old. So I just threw obsessive cardio. Like honestly, I didn't really have any knowledge for.

lifting or I wasn't following any kind of programming, just like a ton of cardio. I got into running as well. I lost 100 pounds. So went down to 160-ish, but it was really skinny fat. Like I always had like, you know, the ripped fat guy calves, but I was never really a defined muscular dude at all. My mid-20s, I got my first coach and my first meal plan. He was a friend of mine who did physique competitions and stuff like that.

Now, his first protocol for me was like, like, my calories up, like get, get me into like a reverse diet. I was really resilient to this. I'm like, no, bro, I need to eat less to get abs and tail as old as time. So I've yo-yo dieted a lot of the last 10 years, but it was never out of control. Like I never got like to a point when it was like, okay, I really got to rein this in. So I got married this past November, I guess coming up on six months ago. And just after the wedding, I weighed in at 2.15. And my my body wasn't looking good. Like I sent, I sent Doug some current end pictures from around then, so we're moving in the right direction. I started a pretty hard cut around then. Went to 2,000

calories a day. That looked like 160 protein, 65 fat, 180 carbs. I was lifting five days a week, 20 minutes daily of cardio. I've got a husky, so I walk her every day. And I work in a very successful high volume cocktail bar. So when I'm at work, I'm, I'm moving a fair bit too. So the weight was dropping, strength was holding. I think my programming is pretty decent. I got down to 195-ish, so I lost about 20 pounds. That held for a couple of weeks. Readjusted, went down to 1900 calories and lost another five to 190 pounds. And it was a hard stall. And like I'd have like my wife and I would order pizza for dinner and I'd go up a couple pounds. I'd hold on to that for three or four days and it just felt like a really hard stall.

So I discovered you guys around the time I started this cut back in November and I knew the advice would be to reverse diet. But I didn't know what that looked like. So I just cranked it overnight from 1900 to 2,500. I went up to 201 protein, 84 fat, and 239 carbs, cut out cardio completely and my strength completely took off like I I didn't realize how much my uh like the thing is like if I lift the same amount of reps as the week before but I'm struggling a little bit more mentally I'm still like oh I'm moving the same weight I'm not losing strength but there's a lot to be said for the amount of effort it takes to do that so my strength completely took off every lift is up in that time my body feels great um sorry that cat on

the table now. Yeah, so my body's tightened up. I went down another pound or two. I've been sitting around there. I'm still in the gym five days a week. Feels like a good number for me. I like the ritual. It's good for me mentally.

And yeah, it's the weight is about leveled off. I feel like I'm kind of stalling again. I'll be it eating 600 more calories a day. I'm not hyper-focused on the weight. I just track it for a data point. Like it doesn't ruin my day if I'm a little up or it doesn't, you know, drastically skew where I'm going to go if I'm a little bit down. But my question then lies into what this actually looks like moving forward sustainably for me.

So I want to be able to go out with my wife for a nice dinner, like have a glass of whiskey with dinner or something like that. Like I'm not a party. I'm not a drinker. But when I hear like, you know, you guys talk about in the long run, oh, like, you'll just, you'll have an easier time getting to, you know, these things won't affect you quite as much because your calories will be higher. I want to know what like the pathway to that looks like, but also like I'm still, I would guess probably mid to low 20s for body fat right now. I'd like to be low to mid,

low to mid teams. So getting to that goal while still looking for the long term sustainability of, you know, having calories high and building muscle in the long term. You're on the path. Yeah, you're doing the right thing. You're on the path, bro. I mean, I just, I'm looking at,

your original pictures in November, where you're at now, you're making, and keep in mind, too, you're up 600 calories, right? So you're, so the way you look and up 600 calories is phenomenal. You drop body fat and built muscle. Yeah. You're on, you're on a, you're on a great path right now. So think of it this way. This is the mentality that I want you to, to adopt that'll help you right now. Build into a leaner physique. Yeah. Don't cut into a leaner physique. Now, five days a week of exercise, the amount of activity that you're doing, your weight, your calories are still low. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. $2,500 is still low. Yeah. Absolutely. Like, yeah, I'm going to be 38 in a week and I'm about 5'8 now. I still figure to be about, you know, the 12 to 14 percent range. And I'm not fixated on that number. I'm just figuring that's like, you know, probably a reasonable goal to shoot for.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. on yourself. No, no, no, don't cut into that. So just to encourage you, you bumped your calories and got leaner. Yep. That's going to happen for a little while, dude. Yeah, it'll continue to happen. And you're back to your question about how do I get to a place where I can have a glass of whiskey with dinner with my wife on a Friday night or what I thought and not feel like it's, you know, it affects me that where that is is higher calories. So when you get to a place, kind of like where you are now, but you're eating 3,000 calories. So you put on even more

muscle. You lean out a tiny bit more, but now you're eating 3,000. Now you have this metabolic flexibility. Now, if you really wanted to, too, you could, you could cut for a short period of time to get down real fast. But if you just keep going the path you're going, like to Sal's point, you build into a leaner physique. You'll get the thing that you want where you have higher calories, so you have more metabolic flexibility. And then you'll also be at such a high calorie. I mean, a great goal instead of a body fat percentage goal would be, can I not put any weight on the scale, kind of hover where I'm at, but get my calories up to 3,200, 3,400 calories a day.

Because if you, if you don't move on the scale much and just keep kind of do it, you're kind in that Goldilocks zone, which, by the way, is one of the best places to be, but also one of the most mentally challenging places. Because sometimes not seeing the scale move also messes with people's heads a little bit. Like, am I seeing progress? I mean, it's very obvious when you look at the picture from November to now, you're making a great progress. You're up 600 calories and you look radically different.

You lost a lot of fun. Like go, if you just kept going down this path for six more months, I bet you you'll look back at that picture and go, oh, shit, I look even better than that. And so you're in a great place. But Sal's right. Like, try and build into that leanness. Don't try and cut into that leanness. So I'd go up in calories.

I also think, too, like, I mean, I know you like the five days a week. I'd like to give you one of our programs because there's, I mean, there's something about having somebody else program. for you and following it. And I don't know if you've been kind of doing similar stuff as far as your training. Like, how have, do you change your training up?

Does it look pretty similar? Like, what, what's the split look like? I was originally, I don't know. Is it bad decorum to say if I was using a different program? No,

no, it's okay. So like you guys have mentioned Jeff Nippert in the past. He's a local guy to me. So I was following a program of his. Okay. And then, um,

it's five days full body. That's fine. Oh, wow. Five days full body. Yeah. It's like heavy, like,

you know. Okay, so does you periodize like the, like how you're, is your lifting intensity change each day or what's it look like with a full body? Well, it's, um, it'll be like, uh, the volume changes week to week. So some days, or some weeks, like you'll have one week where, uh, the rep range is like four to six. And you'll be, uh, like, um, aimed to hit, you know, uh, two reps and reserve on that. And then the following week, it'll be like, uh, 14 to 16 reps and hit two. So it's like, uh, I'll, I imagine the volume will be fairly similar because when I'm doing 14 to 16, I'm, using way lower weights. Of course. But, yeah, it's like one to two big lifts a day and then a lot of auxiliary stuff. And that's every day.

Yeah. All right. If you like it, you can keep doing it. I think if I put you on maps and a ball like, I think it would probably serve you a little better. So I'll send it to you. You could decide to try it or not. Let's do it.

Yeah. I would love to. I'm down to try something new. But you could easily, you could bump your calories 27 right now. You think that's the next day. If I'm at 25, I'd repress. tomorrow go up to 27. Yep.

I'll look. Now, this is give or take, right? So if I coached you through this process, then we would be able to be much more individualized. But generally speaking, with what you're saying, I'd eventually probably get you up to about 3,200 calories. Yeah, that's where I think. Oh, that'd be a dream, dude.

That's a pizza without the nightmare out. By the way, by the way, the two or three pounds you gain from the pizza's water. Yeah. Yeah, exactly that. And like, like I said, too, it's like when I see the scale go up, I'm like, yeah, this is waterway. this is like, you know, excess whatever. And it goes away after a couple days.

Like, I analyze it as a data point. Like, I'm not stewing on it for the rest of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. No, you're on the right path. Yeah, go up 300 calories. Keep doing what you're doing or follow our program. If you're getting stronger, you're building into getting leaner. Yeah.

And keep moving in that direction. And once you get to a place, we're like, whoa, I'm eating a lot of food and I feel good. If you want to pull back and do a cut, you could go back down to $2,500, and that'll be your cut. Yeah. Amazing. That'd be the dream.

Yeah, I'm excited to try. at some of your programming as well. Yeah, you got to do. You'll do great, bro. You're already doing great. Stay on this path. Amazing. Well, I appreciate your time, guys.

And I just like to say as well, like, my job is incredibly social. So when I'm, when I'm in the gym on a day off, like, just like having you guys in my ears, it's this weird, like parisocial thing. Like, I feel like I'm a fly on the wall for just conversations that are helpful. It does something for me. And I think for a lot of people. So I appreciate that. That's cool, man.

Appreciate that, Mike. That's cool. Thank you, brother. Amazing. care, guys. Thanks. Yeah, what's great about his picture, for fall, he lost a lot of body fat. Yeah. He built muscle, and he lost a lot of body fat.

I mean, and he didn't move, and he didn't really move on the scale, which is like the Goldilocks. That's right. Yeah, like he did perfect. And he could he could probably just hang around here, but he's got room to go up in calories. I think, I think if he hangs around here, he'll still see some body calm change, but I think he'll see more body calm change with a bump in calories. With that much activity, what he's doing. Yeah, yeah. Agreed.

And that's obvious because his body was holding on to body fat because his calories are so long. Yeah, yeah. And he's seeing strength gains. He'll build muscle. He'll continue to go down. And the other part that's important to hear is what he said is just like, you know, the guy wants balance.

He wants to be able to have a glass of whiskey with it. Of course. And that will serve him going the direction you're saying. Because he could cut from here if you really want to just to lean out a little bit and go down to 2,000 calories and he'll lean. He'll lose some body fat. But then he's stuck. Yeah, then he's stuck at a low calorie.

He probably won't be happy where he's at physique-wise. It's like, no, keep building. Keep building to a place like 32, 3, 3, 3, 3, hundred calories and then come back down to 27, 28, be eating more than you've ever ate and leaner and stronger than you've ever been. Our next caller is Kayla from South Carolina. Hi, Kayla. Hello, good morning.

Hey, Caleb. Hey, guys. How are you? Good. How are you doing? Good. Thanks for having me back on. I will just read my question if that's okay.

Yeah, let's go. All right. So, hi, guys. I'm writing with a question around reverse dieting, building muscle, and BMR. A little background for context. I have been on the show before. I'm a full-time working mom of two. I have a nine-year-old and a one-year-old. And I also coach fitness on the side. So I've been consistently training myself for about six years. I'm currently still breastfeeding, though I am starting to wean. A few years back, it was probably around 2022 before finding you guys. I was definitely under-eating and overtraining. So when I came on the show at the end of 2023, I was still in that pattern to a lesser degree, but still there. And you guys had encouraged.

me to scale back my training and increase my calories, which I did. Shortly after I got pregnant, which was something that we were working toward for a long time. And I now have a healthy one-year-old as of March 15th. So since then, I have stayed fairly consistent with tracking. Of course, not perfectly through pregnancy and everything, but pretty consistent overall. And through pregnancy and breastfeeding, my appetite naturally increased. I've gradually brought my calories up to around 2,600, 2,700 per day. And I consider it somewhat of a controlled reverse or a mini-bulk that I've been in. Really just kind of listening to my body and trying to fuel myself has been the goal without putting on too much fat. Postpartum, I've adjusted my training. I feel like I've built a solid

amount of muscle. I'm getting stronger. I feel like I look leaner and more tones. And my weight is now around 127, 128. Pre-pre-pregnancy, I was about 131. But of course, my body has changed as well. I gained about 25 pounds during pregnancy. I've since lost that weight and then a few extra pounds, but have continued to rebuild the muscle. So here's where my question comes in. I had done a body scan in August and then again recently. And even though I feel confident that I've built muscle and lost body fat, my BMR on those scans really hasn't changed much.

I mean, I think it went up maybe 20 some calories. I recently was actually listening to one of your episodes and I think you guys. had said something, given somebody the advice of trying to increase that BMR. So that's kind of when this question came to mind. So it just kind of seemed confusing to me because my current maintenance is around 26, 2,700 calories without weight gain. So my questions are, should BMR increase as you build muscle and improve your metabolism? How accurate are these scans? Just for context, my most recent ones that my TDE was around 2,200, I believe it was. And then is real world maintenance intake a better indicator than the scan data?

And when you talk about building your metabolism before a cut, is maintenance intake the more meaningful metric that I should be focusing on? Yes. Sorry. Go ahead. Yes. No. Yes.

It should. Yes. It should improve your metabolism. It should yes. But how accurate are those BMR things? Terrible. Okay. Is real world maintenance intake a better indicator?

take a better indicator? Absolutely. I never, I never use any of the ORA app, Dexas scan. It's never accurate to myself. It's never been accurate to my clients. And that's why I'm a big fan of like you telling me. And as a coach trainer and you're obviously track, you pay attention. You have a better idea of how many calories you maintain at and how many calories will increase you and how many calories is it cut. I can tell already you know that. Yeah, well, Kayla, let me ask you. I think, like, What do you think the answer is where to these? So I think that your real world tracking is definitely the way to go. That's kind of what I've been doing with the clients who I'm working with.

I tell them not to focus too much on what these numbers say. But in the gym setting that I'm working in right now, I don't know if it's the demographic, the age or what it is, but people get so hung up on these numbers. Where my online clients, I feel like trust me to track. I'll have them track usually for 10 to 14 days. and then that's where I start their maintenance and go from. Way, way.

So, so here's a deal, okay? You're tracking, you're eating 26, 27-Hard calories. You're not gaining any weight. Correct. The machine says, you're going to gain weight at over 2,100 calories. Yes. It's not happening, right? You see the real evidence in front of you.

Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, it's a terrible estimate. Yeah. Also, for the people in the gym, you have a, wonderful testimony. You could show them. Hey, listen, you know what mine says? And you show them your paper. Do you want to know what I ate yesterday and then show them your tracking? Yeah. And I'm not gaining any weight. It's, it's so, to estimate somebody's metabolic rate off of those machines. Okay. Begatty on a wall. It is terrible. There's only one way to accurately do it. And it's in the

moment. And you got to wear a machine that you breathe into and you move. And it's measuring it in that moment. There's really no super accurate way to measure this incredibly complex thing. is metabolism. Not to mention it moves. It's not a it's not a stationary number. Yeah. A bad night arrest, overstressed, you know, there's a whole host of things that will change that in a day. So, and that's why the tracking for a week or two weeks like you've done gives you a way better estimate than some sort of algorithm that's based off of your age, your sex, your weight, and your estimated movement. Like that's just so. What you're doing with people by having them track for 10 to 14 days is exactly what we do.

Yeah. Okay. That's how we coach our coaches. That's the only accurate number. There is no more accurate. There's the only way you'll get there. There's no other way to do it in a more accurate way than that. And the few people that are listening that go, well, mine matches just right.

It's more by luck and chance that theirs match up perfect. Yeah. Good for you. Like broken clock is right twice. Yeah. Then you're the norm. Those BMR things are almost always way off for people and I just don't even pay attention to them.

And when we reverse diet, someone like you who's fit, whose strength training, who's doing it right, I'll crush whatever a BMR scan will say. Like what you're saying, that's the norm. I'll get, we'll reverse diet someone and we'll be five, six hundred, eight hundred thousand calories above what their machine tells them they should be at. That happens all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. evil body scanner. And I think that because of that, it gives so much good data, but people are getting

so hung up on those numbers. Yeah. Yeah. And they find it hard to believe that I eat as much as I do. And I'm trying to tell them, hey, I'm tracking. I track pretty religiously. I mean, I'm pretty disciplined, but I do allow myself some flexibility. But, okay, good to know. My, my, my favorite, so out of the three of us, I'm probably the biggest nut when it comes to tracking data stuff. There's three things I use and I like. Steps. So having some sort of step count. I like some sort of a sleep monitor to do my sleep score.

And then a consistent body fat test. That's it. And again, they're not end all be alls. No, you're looking at trends. But they give me a really good indicator on trends of activity level, how well that person is probably sleeping and probably their stress level is normally connected to that. And then a body fat test that, am I in the right, heading in the right direction?

or not. And none of them are end all be all, but they're like the three best data points, in my opinion, to come together with a conclusion of, are we moving in the right direction? Are we not moving in the right direction? All the other shit that's out there is way too much noise, in my opinion. Yeah, what you're trying to do with body fat tests is you're looking at trends. So after three of these measurements, what direction are we moving in? But there's really only a few objective measures that a coach can use. Strength is one of them. There's no room for error.

You did 10 more pounds. That's real. You just lifted 10 more pounds. That's objective. I love strength. That's why I always point to strength. I love that. How do you feel?

That's subjective. But if the person says they feel better than more energy, well, then it's true. Body fat percentage, this is more of a trend thing. But the way you set this up, Kayla, is when you do these scans with your clients, you got to let them know ahead of time. Yeah.

Because what you don't want to do is come around the back of it, and then it sounds like you're trying to comfort them. Exactly. So what you want to do? Yeah. So, hey, before. It's right. Before I do the scan, here's what I want you to know.

There's a, there's a margin of error with body fat percentage that's between four and six percent. So we're just looking at trends here. The, the BMR, we're going to ignore that. That is almost never accurate. The only real accurate way to measure is I'm going to have you track for about 10 days. And for, you know, here's an example and then tell them about what yourself. So we're going to ignore that number. And we're just going to look at trends.

So you got to let them know ahead of time. time. Otherwise, what happens as a coach is somebody comes out of it and they're disappointed, and then it sounds like you're trying to like comfort them. Yeah. And then they're like, do I believe you or not? Maybe they're just trying to make me feel better. The best, the best coaches are coaches that do a good job from the jump forecasting. And that's everything, like letting your clients know, like, hey, I expect that we're going to have some plateau weeks. I expect that we're going to see numbers like this. And so the more you can forecast for them of what's normal and it's okay.

It's a big deal. Then this stuff isn't a big deal. And it's literally, it's reminding them like, this is for me, just so I know that the adjustments that I'm making are aligning with it, I don't want you to get hung up on the body fat test number. I don't want you to get hung up on the BMR number. This is just data points for me that I'm moving you in the right direction. And so forecasting that to Sal's point before they go in and do that is so huge versus

waiting until they get it and then trying to answer their questions of, but why is this saying this? And why did we go up 1%? And then they start freaking out. and then you're trying to backpedal and explain yourself versus saying, I don't even give a shit if this says we went up 2%. I just want to see where it's at because it'll give me an indication of where I want to go from there. That's right.

And so I use it like when I talk to my clients, that's how I communicate before we do any of this testing. It's like it's not an end all be all. It's just more data for me to know that I'm doing the right things with you. Okay. That sounds great. Thank you guys so much. That definitely helps.

I think forecasting is definitely the way to go now with these new scans because people are getting very hung up on those numbers. So that's super helpful. 100%. All right, Kayla. Great job. Yep. Thank you guys.

You got it. Yeah, if coaches know ahead of time how to use these tools and then explain how they're going to be used, very valuable. If you don't do that well, the tools start to do the coaching. Yeah. And then everything's reactionary. Exactly. And then it's going to suck.

You're in a bad place. Like, hey, but my body fat went up a percent. Well, it's okay. You're doing it. Then you sound like you're just trying to make a damage control. Yeah. By the way, this is the type of stuff, I didn't mention it to Caleb, but this is the type of stuff that is in our course. This is what we teach.

This is the stuff that I think this is the stuff that all the best national certifications out there that go over, you know, human physiology, biomechanics, nutrition, you know, exercise science. This is coaching. This is what will make a really good coach. You can have all those certs, degrees, all this stuff like that. Knowledge is great. But if you don't know how to do things like this with clients, that is the difference between you being a good and a great coach. Our next callers are Hannah and Tyler from Ohio. Hey, what's up, guys?

Hi. I'm going to go ahead and read off here so I don't forget anything, and I hopefully remember how to talk this whole time. I'm so excited to see you guys. Like, I kind of can't believe this is real life. So I just wanted to thank you for taking my call and for the information you put out. You have shifted the way that I view health and fitness,

and I have exclusively been running your program since 2019. and don't see myself changing that anytime soon. I'm a 37-year-old female mom of a 2- and 4-year-old. I've been working with a functional health practitioner for the past year due to low testosterone. And honestly, this is the best I've felt since before having kids. My energy levels are a lot better, more constant and consistent, and I don't have the energy crashes and significant fatigue that I was having before.

I usually sit around 122 to 124 pounds prior to having kids. And that was what my weight was also prior to working with this functional health practitioner. So I got down to my pre-baby weight. And I would estimate I was around 20 to 22% body fat. I'm 5'4, currently 130 to 132 pounds depending on the day. I just hit a PR deadlifting at 225. and it was one of those ego things where I felt like I could do more, but I didn't want to injure myself.

I'm a PT, so I try to live the way I teach people. Anyway, I just did a body scan at my gym, and it estimated that I had 24% body fat, which feels about right to me with how my clothes fit and what I look like. So I know this is still a healthy range, but I'm having a hard time psychologically with this. as I work out very consistently, focus on protein, and cycle through your programs pretty religiously.

At this higher weight and body fat, I feel like I look soft and my definition doesn't show unless I am flexing hard. And I'm a physical therapist and a former D1 athlete and have been told a perfectionist at times, but I really want to let go of that mentality. And listening to your podcast over the past five to six years has helped me significantly with this to the point where I'm hoping to help coach people through this at some point and potentially even go into training or functional health in the next five years. However, I'm just really struggling to know if this new weight and size is just a healthier place for my body to be

at this point in my life or if I can try to get back to where I was previously where I felt more athletic and confident and actually fit into my clothes. I know it doesn't seem like a huge difference, but with the size and weight, I basically need to buy like all new pants because none of my pre-baby stuff fits anymore. Any help or guidance is appreciated. I'm currently running MAP's performance. And prior to that, I ran MAPS strong, which I loved. And that's where I hit my PR deadlifting. Hey, great question. And I love that your husband's here for support because I can see his face while you're talking. Yeah, I haven't really. He's waiting for us to say what he's been saying.

I'm reading his mind right now. And I'm going to guess what you're thinking. But he's like, you're kicking ass, honey. You're doing such a good job. Like, you're so hard on yourself. Yeah. So here's a deal. That's the athlete and you kick it.

You are, listen, you're killing it. Yeah. You're doing really well. Your body fat percentage, very healthy. You're super strong. 225 at your size is really, really good. And you probably could have lifted more, but you want to be really good with your technique. And you just had two babies.

By the way, in your email, both C-section. Yeah. And your last pregnancy was rough. It says you were nauseous the entire time, really, really bad. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

And you had two kids within three years. Yeah. And how old is your youngest? Two. He's two and a half technically. Yeah. Listen, you're doing, you're being way too hard on yourself. Yeah.

Here's my advice for you. Yeah. Buy new clothes. Okay. Stop worrying about it. Buy new clothes. Also, you're going to continue to see your body progress. Yeah.

You just got out of... Yeah, you're just now getting in the good spot. Yeah. So I've trained a lot of women pre-during and post babies, okay? And I really hate the fitness space for how it communicates to women postpartum. They get this idea that eight months postpartum, like you're back in shape and I'm back to my old size, whatever. That's crap. Every woman I've ever trained who was disciplined and...

And, you know, even an athlete like you, I've trained a few that were athletes in college. Yeah. It takes like two years before you actually start to feel like yourself. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. So, and you still got a little, you got still little guys at home. So it's still like hectic. Sleep can still be a bit off.

Like, yeah, you're being way hard on yourself on. If you just stay the course. Yeah. Stop judging yourself so harsh. Go ahead and buy some new clothes right now. You're going to keep, your body's going to keep progressing. on its own. But if you, if you beat yourself up, if you let that happen, you're going to set yourself back. I'm going to tell you to something that I feel like has been the theme of the calls

today that we've been telling people too is you're far better off trying to build into the body that you want than thinking about trying to cut into the body you want to, which is a tendency that everybody seems to want to have. Like the fact that you're hitting PRs right now is just like lean into that. Keep getting stronger, keep building muscle. And don't try and cut because you feel like, oh, I can lose a little bit or I want to lean out a little bit. Like, you're just now getting in this good place. Your body is starting to respond where you're hitting PRs. Like, lean into that and get stronger.

And you're going to be happy. And six months from now, you're going to look back and go like, oh, shit. Build what you want. Don't cut into what you want. So if you just kind of like keep building, you know, slow reverse diet, feed the body, feed your hormones, feed the muscle, you're probably going to get down. If you're walking around 24% right now and you've got a two and a four-year-old and you're lifting weights and everything that I read here, you'll probably settle around 21% just by building into it without trying to cut. Yeah.

Just by having fun with your workouts, enjoying yourself, feeding the muscle. You'll probably fall somewhere around 21, 22% with good shape, good muscle, good strength, the whole deal, good hormone profile, the whole deal. Yeah. How long have you been working with the functional medicine practitioner? About a year. And when I started, I had, I think my, what's like mind-blowing to me right now is like you always, you want to be lean. I don't, in the fitness world, like I've lifted weights for decades at this point. And I feel the best since I started doing your program.

So I just respect you guys so much. And I truly believe what you say and I will do, I will do what you're saying. It resonates with me because when I was leaner before working with the functional health practitioner, I felt terrible. Like I've just felt, but I felt like I looked like I wanted to look. So that's, it's so hard,

I think, and I really, I do want to get over that. And I do believe, because I'm like, I feel good. I have energy. Hannah,

it is a terrible trade. Yeah. 3% body fat is a terrible trade to feel like crap. Yeah. That's not a good trade. And right now in your head, you don't realize that. But if I were to snap my fingers

and have you switch back and forth, give you an hour at there and an hour back. You'd be like, no, no, I'm good. by the way the I really do think you're going to settle probably around 21 22% body fat with more muscle and a faster metabolism probably you're going to settle you'll you'll look

better than what you did when you were leaner and you'll feel better but yeah but you got to build into it yeah totally what are your calories at right now um at least 22 to 2400 and that's that's since I started um working with the function I like I don't track religiously but when I do it's pretty easy for me to get about that Yeah, I bet you when you're around 22, you're probably hungry. Yeah. And I felt like it wasn't even the hunger. It was more like the just feelings almost ill because I just felt depleted.

Yeah, yeah. You need to be probably consistently 24, 25. Like, don't ever go below that is where I would have you. Yeah. And you'll actually get leaner with that because you're going to build into it. Yeah. Yeah, that's where I keep you. That should be the focus.

Yeah, stop being so hard on yourself. You're doing so great. Yeah. You're doing really, really great. Yeah, you're going to keep improving. but if you place that hyper focus on yourself, that's going to set you back for sure. Focus on getting strong on the lifts.

Feeding the body, reverse dieting, continuing to go up. You could easily continue to go up calories too, by the way. You could end up landing at a place like 27, 2,000, 2,800 calories. Easily. Easily. And in getting stronger, if you do that,

you'll build into the body that you desire right now. Don't think about cutting into it. Like you're as low as I would want you, calorie-wise. I want to keep reversing you. And the signs of, Hitting PRs is such a good sign. We're moving in the right direction.

Yeah, I think if you consistently stayed about 24, 25, never went below it. You'd see this nice body composition change. Okay. I appreciate that. Yeah, when I first started your programs, I was using straps for 145, and I was like barely doing that. And now I felt like I could definitely just hold on to the bar at 225. Wow.

Yeah. It's like crazy how much your programming helps. And what would you suggest? Because I just came off as strong and then performance. And that's pretty much all I'm doing. I do a little bit of the elliptical, but I mostly just walk and do your programs. Yeah. Right now, I didn't know, like, what to do next, I guess.

Symmetry would be good. I think you would appreciate it, too, as a PT. Yeah. That's so hard, though. It's not so hard because I love the heavy, like, stuff. But I do, I haven't done that one yet. I do have it. I should lead into that still, though.

I mean, you still go. Power lift. Go power lift. You can do power lift. Yeah, because you did, you've done strong. You've done performance. You've done performance. So always my.

recommendation is a cycle of performance or symmetry a year. So always cycle one of those in there because that'll keep you balanced really well. So if you're as long as you're cycling performance or symmetry once a year and then go if you really enjoy the lifting heavy, I'd push you into power lift. Yeah, you want to do power lift. But you got to you got to eat 2,500 calories a day for that one. Yeah, yeah. I can do that. I feel it so good lifting out to 225. I made him come out and watch me. So it's good for him. Like you're going to witness this. And it flew off the ground. I was like, why am I out here?

I feel like that would feel. Oh, yeah. I'd love to see you do power lift. Power lift and feed. Power lift and feed. And if you're hungry, feed. So even if you're landing at 2,500 calories and your appetite, eat more. So that's what I really focus on the strength there.

We get strong and we can reverse diet right now even more. That would be a huge win in the next three months. Sounds great. All right. Awesome. You guys keep it up. Yeah. Thanks for calling in.

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. You got it, guys. Bye. I can literally hear his thoughts. Oh, yeah, yeah. I feel like that's why he was on here. That was like, you better tell him what's going on.

Well, let's see what the guys have to say. Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Because I know he's thinking, he's thinking like, honey, you're killing it. Yeah. You are really hard on yourself. Of course. But you don't want to hear it from your, I get it.

I get it. But, man, she is doing really well. Very, very, very common with ex-athletes. Oh, yeah. Very, very commonplace. So when she said that, I was just like... Oh, she's got a two-year-old at home. And her pregnancies were rough.

I mean, if you read the people, she didn't read the whole email, but, I mean, she was diagnosed with hyperamesis. I mean, she... That's like where you're vomiting all the time because you're so nauseous. Two C-sections. Remember, they cut through your core.

Yeah. And so, and she's doing phenomenal. Yeah. And just hit a PR what a couple days ago. It's just like, no, we're on the right track. You just stay. You know, it is. It was the theme of the calls today is like, you know,

build into the... body you want versus trying to cut into the body you want will serve you so much more. That's right. If you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

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