Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2871: 6 Things That Are Destroying Your Muscle (Without You Knowing)

Episode Date: June 3, 2026

In this episode the guys break down the six fastest ways to lose muscle and get flabby — too much cardio, low protein, poor sleep, nutrient deficiencies, ignoring gut health, and alcohol. Sal shares how fixing a parasite he didn't know he had led to gaining 12 pounds of muscle doing the same exact things. They also get into the power of music and why kids instinctively dance, Lone Star ticks and Lyme disease conspiracy theories, colonoscopy talk, the progression of Paul Saladino's diet, and Adam's son comparing his biceps in the sauna. Then they coach live callers submitted through mplivecaller.com. Alex from Mississippi on chronic fatigue and suspected nutrient deficiency, Dale from Connecticut on building muscle with a herniated disc and CrossFit burnout, Elizabeth from Wyoming on rest periods and winning a gym argument with her boss's husband, and Jenna from Wisconsin on a recurring hip flexor issue during heavy lifting.   MAPS Summer Sale — https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Code: SUMMER40 — 40% off everything. Programs, bundles and mods. June 1–14 only. SPONSORS Organifi — https://organifi.com/mindpump Code: MINDPUMP — 20% off. All-natural parasite cleanse — Sal discusses his own experience on air. Ketone IQ — https://ketone.com/MINDPUMP 30% off subscription orders + free gift with second shipment (6-pack, merch & more). Also available at Target stores nationwide. Joymode (sexual performance booster) — https://tryjoymode.com/mindpump Code: MINDPUMP — 20% off first order. Natural, science-backed pre-sex supplement with L-Citrulline, Arginine, Yohimbine & Vitamin C. Mix with water 45 min–4 hours before. LINKS Submit a live caller question: https://mplivecaller.com Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com  Instagram: @mindpumpmedia 0:00 - Intro 2:28 - 6 fastest ways to lose muscle and get flabby — the full breakdown 2:59 - #1: Too much cardio — the skinny fat trap explained 8:34 - #2: Low protein — data shows 30–50% more muscle loss vs. higher protein diets 10:19 - #3: Poor sleep — same weight loss, twice the muscle loss (the study) 15:50 - #4: Nutrient deficiencies — the sneaky silent muscle killer 18:30 - #5: Ignoring gut health — how Sal gained 12lbs fixing a hidden parasite 25:16 - #6: Alcohol — 1,000–2,000 extra empty calories a week, minimum 33:35 - Music's power — why kids instinctively dance & memory through song 43:06 - Adam's son compares biceps in the sauna — "that's the one I open doors with" 47:28 - Colonoscopy talk — who needs one, the poop-in-a-bag alternative & 50–88% survival data 1:04:05 - Caller: Alex (Mississippi) — chronic fatigue after one workout, suspected nutrient deficiency 1:18:30 - Caller: Dale (Connecticut) — CrossFit burnout, herniated disc, wants to build muscle 1:26:37 - Caller: Elizabeth (Wyoming) — rest periods debate with her boss's PT husband 1:39:04 - Caller: Jenna (Wisconsin) — recurring hip flexor tightness during heavy lifting

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If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump in today's episode. Callers called in, asked us some questions about their health and fitness. We got to coach them live on air, but this was after our intro, today's intro, 60 minutes long. Now in the intro, we talk about muscle gain and fat loss and fitness and current events.

Family life, it's always fun. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email your question to mp.life caller.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organify. Today we talked about their all-natural parasite cleanse. It really does work. If you have gut issues that are persistent, can't figure out what's going on, give it around, see what happens. Many people are reporting significant improvements in their gut health.

Go to Organify.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump for 20% off. This episode is also brought to by ketone IQ. These are exogenous ketones, meaning you can take this and get into ketosis. What's ketosis? Ketosis typically is induced by eating no carbohydrates. People feel more energy. They're more clear and they're thinking.

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or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpumpstor.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Here are the six fastest ways to lose muscle and get flabby. Number one, do tons and tons of cardio. Number two, eat a low protein diet. Number three, have terrible sleep.

Number four, be deficient in nutrients. Number five, ignore your gut health issues. And number six, drink a lot of alcohol. All right, let's get into it, fellas. Check, check, check, and check. I mean, we got what you doing right now? What are you losing my diet? We got us, we could definitely start off on the tons of cardio.

I'm sure that one is. Everybody's going to hate that. Yeah, so I'm glad you started to kick it off with that because that's the I didn't say do cardio. I said do tons and tons. Right, right. Lots of it. But still, when you say the fastest way to lose muscle and get flabby right away, people are going to be like,

that would be the fastest way to just to lose fat would. Yeah. People would be hung up on that first one for sure. So the term flabby really described, obviously that's not a scientific term, but what we're describing is a low muscle body. Skinny fat. Skinny fat is what we used to call it. That's right. Skinny fat is what we used to call somebody who does exactly this.

Low calorie diet runs all the time. They look skinny. And then you come in and I do their body fat test. And it's high. And their body fat test is high. And someone might be going like, how's that possible? Well, they've just lost a lot of muscle. They've paired down.

There's no reason. They don't eat enough calories for their body to hang on to a decent amount of muscle. So they have a good ratio of muscle to fat. And so this is where we get the term skinny fat that almost all personal trainers are very familiar with. Because I think every personal trainer, if you've been training clients longer than a few years, has had that person that, that and I remember, I can vividly remember the first time this happened to me. I don't know if you guys can or not. But I remember getting this girl when I was really young.

And in fact, she was like a competitive cheerleader. And, you know, she looked very lean, but thin, you know. And so I remembered testing her body fat test. And I redid it like three times. He was like, there's no way she's denied. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

And that was the first time. And then again, I totally thought something was off. And then when I started to see that more often, I realized, oh, wow, this is what could happen when you grossly under eat and you're overactive, just in general, whether you're a runner or whatever, it could lead to severe muscle loss. So every form of exercise will induce an adaptation. Okay. So the adaptation would be how is your body changing? And I don't mean visually yet. We'll get there.

But really, how is your body changing in response to? the stress from the exercise. Okay. So the primary adaptation from lots of cardiovascular activities, endurance, this is the primary adaptation. If you start running and you start getting better

at running, you're gaining endurance is what's happening. The primary adaptation of other forms of exercise are a bit different. Sometimes it's a mix of endurance, maybe a little stability, a little bit of strength, and sometimes it's primarily strength, like strength training. The adaptation that

builds muscle or hangs on to muscle is strength. Okay. Endurance doesn't do this. You can gain lots of endurance and build almost no muscle at all. In fact, you can gain lots of endurance and lose muscle because your body becomes more efficient. Big muscles are not as efficient for lots of endurance type activities.

I think we kind of know this when you see someone as heavily muscle. Do you anticipate they don't have necessarily as much stamina? And so when you do lots and lots and lots of running, your body is trying to get good at running or good at cycling or good at whatever your form of cardio. is. And so it gains endurance and it reduces its demand on nutrients. Why? Because cardiovascular activity burns a lot of calories while you do it. Your body's trying to become an efficient cardio machine. So it's not unlike having like an advanced AI car that adapts to my driving, you know, how I drive every single day. And so the way I drive every day is 25 miles an hour, but I drive 500 miles

every single day, my car would adapt to become a one-cylinder car, barely sips on gas, has 35 horsepower, and just conserve energy. And so lots and lots and lots of cardio, overdoing cardio a lot, is a recipe for muscle loss. Does the data suggest this or show this? Yeah, it does. When you look at the data on calorie restriction plus lots of cardio, a significant percentage of the weight loss comes from muscle. In some cases, half.

Now, as a gym owner and manager over years and years and years, we refer to this phenomenon. We would call people cardio bunnies. These were people that would come in, jump on cardio. They'd stay on there for an hour, an hour and a half, two hours, every single day. And their bodies wouldn't change. And it looked like the meat was hanging off their body because they would lose lots of muscle. They had great stamina. They could do cardio forever.

But they just had no muscle. And as a result, their metabolic rate was quite slow. and many of these people struggled. Couldn't figure out what was going on because it worked out all the time. Yeah, and we're not talking about fast twitch, like sprinting and, you know, that's totally different. I think sometimes people argue that, though,

when we're talking about cardio. And, you know, that's a completely different type of a training, an anaerobic type of cardio. I wouldn't put in that category. Sprinting is a strength training of running. I was just saying, you're using Sal's analogy, that's the quarter mile race for cars. If you did that one, your car would have a drag,

Yeah, to a big V8 supercharged twin turbo gas guzzlement machine. It would adapt to for sprinting that hard, which was, hence, it's called muscle cars. Ironically. That's funny. I know. So think about that. Yeah. So if you use the analogy you're using, yeah, a little one cylinder or four cylinder car would get smoked all day long and would never be able to do that.

So, yeah, in sprinting, you want muscle. And it's. Well, look at sprinters. at long distance runners, they look very different. Very, very different. They rest, like immediate after their. The next one was eating a low protein diet. Eating low protein is, it makes it very difficult to hold on to or to keep muscle.

What does the data show? I mean, I was going to say, Sal, wouldn't you argue this may be even the fastest way to, to lose muscle? Because even if you were strength training and you're not doing a bunch of cardio, you're strength training and just active, but you eat very low protein, you, you your body's going to pair down muscle. Well, I actually have some data. So, and this is based off of what the RDA recommends,

which is still not a high protein diet. So we recommend much more. And there are many studies of support a higher intake of protein for building muscle, keeping muscle. But this is comparing people who ate the RDA versus people who ate less than the RDA. Okay. So it was like RDA protein, which is still low versus low, low. Okay.

People who ate low low, who ate less than 0.7 grams per kilogram of body. weight lost 40% more lean muscle mass than those eating 1.1 grams per kilogram of body weight. So that's a big difference. That's a big difference. During weight loss and calorie restriction, low protein diets, people in a low protein diet lost 30 to 50% more muscle than those with the high protein versions or higher protein versions. So protein is the building block for muscle.

In a low calorie diet, it preserves muscle. It actually helps with fat loss as well. And my belief is because the higher muscle, more muscle increases metabolic rate. But yeah, eating a real low protein diet is like, here, let me give my body the least amount of the muscle and bullying material that I need. So it makes it very difficult. Next was terrible sleep. This one's really interesting to me. There's a couple studies that show when everything's controlled.

So workouts, calories. So they take groups of people, put them in a calorie-restricted diet. So they're both eating low-calorie. This group is getting five to six hours of sleep. This group's getting seven to eight hours of sleep. Both of them on a low-calorie diet. They lose the same amount of weight on the scale, which is crazy. But then when they go body composition, the poor sleep group loses twice as much muscle

and half as much body fat, which is crazy. Just the sleep alone. Yeah, they're not recovery. It's telling your body, get rid of this expensive. tissue and let's hang on. Hormones are imbalanced. Let's hang on to body fat. So body fat on the body is, it's an insurance policy.

It's an insurance policy for stress. Why? Because it's stored energy. It's stored calories. And low, poor sleep is a stress on the body. And a body that is stressed wants more insurance. And it does not want to burn a lot of calories. Because that's a needs to keep that energy. That's right.

Any idea of the age bracket of that? Or is it randomized? And like, because I would imagine as we get older that gets exacerbated, right? Like, sleep is important no matter what. But I would imagine doing a study of a bunch of 20-year-olds that did this with poor sleep would still have a poor outcome, right? Doing that with a bunch of 45-year-olds, I would think it would be ridiculously. More discrepancy.

I think what you would see is generally it would be the same in proportion. It's just worse overall. What I mean by that is, you know, if you're 45 and you're to calorie deficit, calorie deficit, high protein, good sleep, you may lose like this much muscle. In your 20s, you still lose less muscle. But in comparison, 20 versus 40, the 20 group is going to be more resilient overall.

But the difference between the poor sleep and the good sleep is just as bad. In other words, overall, you're more resilient in your 20s, but you're still going to suffer. Oh, so your theory is that that would be on other ends. God, I feel like it would be still with you. Maybe. I feel like there would be a greater discrepancy. Maybe.

Because basically what you're saying is the percentage would be the, same. Yes. It was just obviously overall. It's worse overall. Yeah, worse overall for the, I think there would be even a greater description. I mean, you could totally be right. I'm totally guessing. Because my theory is kind of what we talked about the other day with the stress bucket theory. It's just like a 20 years old, and that's not to say that you can't be stressed at 20, but the level of... The demand is way less. Yeah. The level of stress that you have at 45 versus probably 20, most people would say is significantly higher at 45 with job, mortgage, marriage, kids. I mean, in real life,

scenarios, you're probably right, just because there's overall stress side or anyway. Right. Yeah. You're right, because controlled studies are interesting, right? Because they're like not living real life. But generally speaking, a 45-year-olds got way more responsibility. That's what I mean. So I feel like this becomes even more paramount

to, no matter what, it's important. But I think it could be an unlock for the person who's like, I mean, how many times have you guys had somebody who's in their 40s? And like, that's all you did was I'm not going to change anything else. But tweak that and then also when they start building more or losing body fat.

It blew me away when I started to put this together. Well, it's hard when it, because we were putting this together when we were 20s. So I remember it took a while for this to like click for me because I couldn't connect to it

because I was still getting away with neglecting it myself and still seeing results. So when I had someone in their 40s who I was doing all the nutrition, like diet was perfect, training was perfect, but they just had really bad sleep.

And I'm like, We should still be seeing good results. You know what it is is that we don't typically look at our sleep until we feel really crappy all day long. But if we can kind of get away with it. Well, not only that, but then we also slowly adapt to that too. And we, to the point. Make up for it with caffeine.

Yeah. We don't even know what good feels like because we've adapted so well to performing on five hours. Like how many times have you heard that? Somebody who's just like, yeah, I only get about five or six, but I'm fine. I do good. You know what I think they're good. And it says, oh, you just don't know what it's like. to get eight and feel it really good feels like so that you're also battling that of the people

that don't even think that their sleep is bad because they've adapted to whatever level of, you know, you know, sleep quality they've been getting through. I didn't put, I didn't put this together at least not appropriately until my mid-30s with my clients. And so I was in my mid-30s as a trainer. And when I started putting this together, it blew me away how many times I would take a client and all we did was work on sleep habits. So going to bed at this time, wake up at this time, don't be on electronics. Let's not have caffeine past this time or whatever. And we would change nothing else.

And to see how much stronger they got, how fat loss became easier. And then here's the other part that we haven't even talked about, the cascading effects that it had on other aspects of their life. Because then suddenly they had more energy to move more. Suddenly their cravings dropped. because they weren't so sleep deprived. There are other behaviors changed that were all beneficial. So it's just really, but for me,

the studies are really fascinating because, like in the controlled ones, they're both at a deficit. They both had the same weight loss, twice as much muscle loss in the group of not great sleep. Wow. Yeah. That's a big difference.

Huge difference. Makes a big difference. The other one here is being deficient in nutrients. This one sucks. And it's more common than you think. Very good. It could be sneaky. Yes.

And a lot of, we're led to believe in modern societies that nutrient deficiencies are not that common. Now, terrible nutrient deficiencies are not that common. So it's not that common in modern societies for you to get like scurvy or have such a terrible nutrient deficiency that you're hospitalized.

But so many people are on that borderline of constant, like kind of in between deficiency and kind of hitting the cusp of what the bottom is. They don't realize it's like magnesium. zinc. Vitamin D is like chronic. That's like chronically low in people. And when those things are like,

your body's just not off to operate. Yeah, minerals and vitamin D. It's just like, it's hard because two, like soil qualities change a lot over the years as well. So even when you're like eating whole foods and like you're really actively, you know, pursuing that, it's hard to balance all that.

Totally. Yeah, I've always given the analogy to my clients like the, all the micronutrients like that and nutrients that we can be deficient in is like running your car. on low or no oil. It's like it's not the main fuel that gives you gas to go and do your day. Like the major macro nutrients.

And so you can be fine on the macros, but your micros aren't good. And so, and eventually that engine is friction inside. Yeah, exactly. Eventually, there's a friction and that engine will break down and it will not, it won't go. And so if you're deprived or deficient enough in one of those major new macro or micronutrients, then your engine's going to run suboptimal. And so making sure that we've got that all in line. make a difference. I remember we brought this up before, and I wonder if they've repeated this,

but they did this. They showed us this as trainers, and I remember it blew my mind. They took, like, trained dietitians, so not like everyday people, like real dietitians. And they said, make a diet for a day that hit the RDA's recommended, you know, daily intake of micronutrients and do it with whole foods. Like, we can't use a multivitamin. Yeah. It was 3,000 calories. It was a 3,000 calorie, well-planned diet. Yeah. Yeah. Not a 3,000 calorie garbage diet. Like they had to consciously put... The color spectrum was like completely visible.

Yeah, they were like picking things for certain nutrients and putting them together in a diet. And we looked at the diet. First off, 3,000 calories, most people gain body fat on that because their metabolic rate's not that high and they're not that active. And then number two was just unrealistic. I'm looking at the meals.

I'm like, nobody eats like this. Yeah, nobody's preparing a week like that. Nobody's doing that. So these deficiencies are relatively common, definitely suboptimal. And so it's an easy fix, multivitamin. Multivitamin, eat whole foods, and you can plug those holes and it'll make a big difference. Then it was gut health issues, ignoring these.

I know this one personally. Gut health makes such an impact on your body's ability to adapt to stress. It's crazy. When I finally figured out and fixed my gut health, which I had been managing on and off for years and years and years. And the way I managed it was there's certain foods I couldn't eat. I'd have to cut them out for long periods of time. I'd had to go on really low carbohydrate diets. Other times I'd have to fast for long periods.

My symptoms were just, you know, all gastro issues. And I, you know, and I managed. I managed because I know how to work out. I'm very diligent with my diet. But I managed it. I tried to manage it for a long time. And then when I finally figured out the culprit and solved that issue, I gained about almost 12 pounds of lean body mass.

Just boom, doing the same stuff. Just suddenly I could eat. And suddenly I could absorb the nutrient. and suddenly my body built more muscle. What's happening on a physiological level there? Is that your gut is off, therefore the body is, it's got a stress, it's trying to repair, it's trying to fix. And so it's prioritizing that over building muscle or over burning body fat?

Like what is it about not having good gut health that could hinder somebody's results in building muscle or burning body fat? Is that what? So for my case, in my case, it was chronic inflammation. I think that's the case with gut health. health issues for most people. It's just this chronic systemic inflammation that sometimes is worse, sometimes is better. So is that, okay, when that happens, does that mean that the body is like systemically inflamed

and it's constantly trying to handle that versus adapt to the strength training? Well, there's more. So part of it is you have this immune response that's kind of always kind of there. So you just don't feel as good. You just don't feel as good. You're more likely to hurt. You're less likely to have good sleep or you're more fatigued. Then the other part of it was I couldn't eat enough to support my training.

Because once I'd push my food intake a little bit, boom, I'd have issues. And I'd become very limited with what I could eat. And so with people with gut issues that are really bad, you ask them, and they'll be like, man, I can't. It's like I can't eat. Even the foods you normally can handle makes it difficult if your guts off, like going into that. And so you end up avoiding them. Or you end up eating, you know, avoiding them for so long.

Then you get real hungry. Then you eat garbage. A lot of people do that. In my case, it wasn't that because, you know, maybe more. more, I don't know if you want to say more discipline, but I just wasn't able to feed myself enough because I couldn't. Because every time I did, boom, I'd get a flare up. But yeah, this affects nutrient absorption and assimilation.

This chronic systemic inflammation means your body is just not as resilient to the stress of exercise. You can't exercise like you normally can. You just don't feel as good for some people that affects their sleep. Definitely impacts hormones. For sure, you're going to have higher stress hormones, your insulin sensitivity. is not going to be as good. Just it's overall, you're not well.

Yeah. It's what this looks like, even if it's just not that bad, but kind of constant. Yeah. Yeah. Last, drinking a lot of alcohol. Alcohol is, boy, is that.

So, was this not like one of the more difficult things as a trainer to deal with? Totally. Especially the client that said things like, I will not give up my cup. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're not taking my wine from me.

It's up my calories somewhere else. Yeah. This is, uh, and it's, it's difficult for a whole host of reasons. It's not as simple as just the calories thing. I think people think it's just, oh, of course, it's just a bunch of empty calories. Like, well, yeah, that's one of the reasons why it's not beneficial. It's because we get a bunch of empty calories. But it's a lot of the, you know, the effects from that.

And then also the cravings that come from that. Sleep disruptions. The calories that it ends up replacing instead of. It's like, I've never met a person who won't give up the drinking thing that also gets incredible sleep, also hits their protein. You know what I'm saying? Like does all the other things. things because in the context of that, like if you actually hit your, your macro targets, you

actually got good sleep and then you had occasional drinks, it's probably not that those are the clients that have had success, but it's a client that like will not give up the drinking and they've got high stress, poor sleep, low protein intake. And it's like, that's just a recipe for we're not going to see any results. Yeah, on average, the average person who drinks quote unquote regularly, but isn't like in a bad place. Okay. So we're not talking about alcoholics here, but just people who drink it, you know, with dinner or whatever, will have anywhere between 1,000 to 2,000 extra calories a week. Minimum.

From alcohol. Minimum. And this is like conservative. Yeah. And again, to my point. And it's all, and it's, in the calories you're getting from it are useless. Yes. Yeah, you're not utilized.

They're useless. And more often than not, if you're getting 2,000 extra calories a week, they're almost always missing that in protein. It's like, it's rarely ever carbs because they're snacking crackers and stuff. and all the other. That's rarely ever the issue. So they're getting carbohydrates. Maybe they're getting their fats. So they're either low on the fat or low on protein or the combination of both. And their extra calories are going to alcohol. Well, and then this is the other part of it. Alcohol has a inhibition lowering effect, even a little bit. Yeah. And so your food choices and discipline

change a little bit. And they do. We all know this. You have a few drinks with your friends and now you want pizza. Well, that's the other category. So either you're the person that I just explained, where you keep your calories in check and you drink 2,000 of those calories a week but then you're not hitting your protein or you eat those two, you drink those two others and then you do a bunch of other stuff on top of it.

So now you're over consuming on calories. It's, and maybe you hit your protein but then you're eating four or 5,000 extra calories a week over your limit. And so it's really tough to find the person who can, and so what I would always coach my clients that really enjoy, because I also, I mean, I drink alcohol.

We all, we all do. We all allow it into our lifestyle. But you, I always tell them, like, I want to get a hold of the diet first, and I want you to feel what it feels like. When we feed our body properly, we train properly, and we do everything correct for a while, so you can feel that and you have a home base. Yeah. And then you can.

It's good to know what it feels like. And then you can insert the occasional drink out on the weekend or what like that. Totally. And you know what you need to adjust for because you know what home base looks like. if you have never allowed alcohol to be out longer than, you know, a week, you don't know what it's like to eat properly, consistently, sleep properly, hit macros properly, and train properly to feel what you should feel like for 30 days. And it's like, let's do that first. And then we can talk about how we can insert. And those are the clients that I think I've had the most success with. Yep. Totally. All right. So back to the gut health stuff because I do want to, because people are probably like, what did you do or what was it that you had an issue with with your gut? I finally realized that I had. parasite. And I didn't know it. Part of the reason why I didn't know it is testing can be interesting for parasites. Sometimes

you can test negative and there's still something there because they quote, they quote unquote hide, which sounds kind of gross. But what I did is I did a treatment for parasites and started to feel immediately different and then went through the process of healing because once you get rid of it, you have to give your body a little bit of time to heal whatever damage or inflammation. And it was like a few months of kind of getting better and kind of still being good

with my food. And it was like, I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy because now I can eat things I couldn't eat before and I don't have this crazy reaction. And now if I get like, if my gut goes bad now, it's like bad for like a half a day. Whereas before when I'd get a flare up, I'm like, here we go. I got three weeks of gut issues happening. And I got a clamp down.

I got a fast. And it was parasite. And parasites are. so much more common in modern societies than were led to believe. It's not common like it is in third world societies. Like you don't have parasites in everything you eat. But if you live your entire life in a modern society in America and you eat raw vegetables or sushi or uncooked other kinds of foods and you've been doing it for the last 30 years, odds are you've been exposed and you might have a parasite. So just talking to Drew from Organify the day and he's talking to.

telling me that that his his, their number one product right now is, the parasite cleanse? It's blowing up. Of course. Do you think that we, it's more common today than it was 30 or 40 years ago? Or do you think we're more aware of it? Like what, like I never heard that as a young trainer. It wasn't like a big conversation where I feel like it's become way more calm. I don't think parasites are more common, but gut health issues are more common. And there's other reasons for that. So,

you have more food allergies, food intolerances, uh, more just issues with things like gluten today than ever before. But that's a whole other conversation. You know, could it be that what we're eating, exposure to external, you know, compounds, chemicals. Could it be our microbiome is thrown off because of the, you know, the antibiotics that we're consuming at high doses or we have been for decades? I mean, I don't know, all of that maybe. But parasites themselves are, I don't think they're more common.

but your body's less resilient. So for the average... We're making a better environment for them to thrive. Totally. So for the average listener who's like wondering, like, you know, or maybe they've tried a lot of the gut health stuff and, you know, probiotics and things like that. And like you, you know, had a little bit excess, not really.

And it could possibly be a parasite. What would be like the symptoms that they would be looking for or like what's... So digestive issues. So constipation, diarrhea. bloating, that's just like abnormal. You're getting more and more food intolerances. So like, man, what the heck? I used to be able to eat this.

Now when I ate that, it bothers me. And that just keeps happening. Skin issues, jaw clenching at night. Inflammation. Those are the main thing. Gut health issues in general are the big ones. But there's lot. I mean, there's so many symptoms that if I start listing them all,

you'd be like, wow, it's everything. But that's just because parasites can affect lots of different things. Yeah. The cool thing about Drew's parasite cleanse from Organify is that because it's natural, it doesn't hurt to use it. I mean, honestly, I think everybody should do a parasite cleanse once every year, once every other year. Well, especially if it's not, it's not like you say, it's not like you. No, no, no, no.

Yeah, this is, these are all natural stuff. It's not going to hurt you. Right. So it might as well. Might as well do it once or twice year. All natural stuff. That's not like you're taking something that's nuking your gut or anything. Well, it's interesting when you see, because, like, having cats and having dogs, it's like, you know, it's a constant battle.

Oh, yeah. And I do see, especially with the cats, like, it's, you know, more visible that they got worms, like, crawling around, which is disgusting. But it also makes you think. And it's like, it's just so, it's so visibly rampant with your animals. And it's like, we don't even, like, think that we're concerned. You get it from your animals, too. You can get it from your animals? You can get it from your animals?

Sure. people with pets have higher rates of parasites. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Is that like one of the few things that we can get from pets? Because there's not a lot of things that we, that transfer from a pet to humans. That's a good question.

I'm not sure. But I know you can get parasites. Oh, that's interesting. From animals. I didn't know that. Watch out for those ticks. I finally saw. That I know you get for animals.

Bro, is there like a tick explosion or something. Yeah, there is. And I don't want to create, like, scare out of this. You don't want to talk about Bill Gates? sticks. Yeah, exactly. Well, Delon Star Ticks. So there was a guy that actually posed a video and he had the symptoms of like being allergic to red meat. This is the first one I've seen where the guy was like trying to describe, you know, after getting bit. And then now of a sudden, like his reaction towards eating red meat was like pretty visible and

like these rashes and everything he had was crazy as a result of it. But it's like, yeah, because again, this is more of that conspiratorial stuff where you're like, dude, I just really hope they're not doing this. You know, like, if this is just like a random occurrence, but apparently there's been an uptick of, of these lone star ticks, literally. I know. I saw a chart, and it's like

spreading to the Wests. Yeah. And people are taking their phones and filming, and you can see, like, ticks all over. So what is, film me in, because I know, I only know surface knowledge of the conspiracy theory around Bill Gates and the, in these ticks. They're genetically modifying

mosquitoes. I don't know about ticks. Yeah. They're dropping him in areas. They pointed in his direction in terms of, like, yeah, scientifically studying. And, like, you know, I'm sure for, because he's involved in, like, the whole, like, meatless meat. So it's, it refers to a debunked. Okay, thanks, internet. Conspiracy theory claiming Bill Gates finance the release of genetically modified ticks to cause a red meat allergy.

Well, I don't know if he's responsible, but I know that I'm sure he's. Well, I certainly don't. I certainly don't take the. first thing that AI tells me is truth either. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they did pay for research to genetically modify a different species

of tick called the tropical cattle tick to stop livestock diseases. But then there's another theory that our government was experimenting. And they're going to stop there. They're going to have integrity. Well, there was this theory, and maybe you could look this up, Doug, that our government

was experimenting with modifying ticks and they dropped them in an area to see what would happen but then lost control of them. And I think that one might be true. Our lives are like a whole sci-fi movie now, bro. Yeah. It's the idea that government lost control of them.

Ticks and mosquitoes and aliens. It's the origins of Lyme disease. Can we just be cool, you know? Yeah. So the proponents, hold on I got to read this. Proponents allege that between 1950s and 70s, the U.S. military government scientists experimented with dropping or releasing infected ticks to use them as biological weapons. They claim an accidental release from laboratories associated with Plum Island caused the Lyme disease epidemic.

There was a book called Bitten. Bitten, yeah. That's supposedly where Lyme disease came from? That's what they think. Shut up. I did not know that. Wow. Yeah, dude.

They would never create a disease and accidentally release it. Stop. Guys. There's never been a lab leak That's not that's crazy That would not happen you guys Dude I gotta tell you And just bear with me

Because this we're a mask This story takes a turn But I had this like This spiritual experience today That just cracked me up so hard dude So I'm in the car And I'm driving to the gym Okay

And I'm listening to this book I'll pull it up for you It's like pray Pray like fools Live like monks or something like that I think that's the name of it. It's a really good book by Tyler Staten. Yeah, praying like monks, living like fools.

That's it. Tyler Staten. And in there, he's talking about prayer and he talks about the Lord's Prayer, you know, our father, one. And he starts off and he breaks it down, right? So he starts out with our father and he's like, okay, what this, it tells us who we are and who he is, but it also tells us who we are to each other,

like that we're all brothers and sisters. So as I'm listening to this and I'm meditating on that, brothers and sisters, right? And I'm driving. And I just start feeling all this like love. Like, people are driving by. So we can cut you off. Slow and listen.

People are driving by. No, it's even better. Okay. People are driving by and I'm looking at that. And I genuinely, I'm thinking of them like my siblings because I love my siblings. Yeah. And I'm feeling all this love and this joy. Like, oh my God, this is the most amazing feeling.

And I'm praying and praising God. So I get to the gym and change. You know, get my thing ready. And I go in the, there's one remaining squat rack. So I was in squat today. And there's a dude stretching in there. Like, that's what he's using the squat. In the squat rack.

He's stretching. He's at least that bicepillar in there. He's just stretching. He literally is just holding the bar. He's literally holding the bar. Yeah, that might be worse, actually. Bro. He's holding the bar and he's doing stretches, right?

And it's the only... You can do that over there. And all the racks are being used by people who are squatting. Yeah. But this dude's stretch... In flip flops. Okay?

Even better. Oh, yeah. He's squatting. So I go up to him... Probably wears deodorant to him. So, and listen, I'm like... I'm like on her time crunch because I got to work.

I could come here afterwards. Yeah, yeah. So I'm looking at him doing the stretches, and I'm like, maybe he's going to load the bar. And I'm also thinking, like, oh, you shouldn't squat and flip floss or whatever. Yeah. But no, he's just stretching the whole time. So then I go up to him and say, hey, man, I said, how much longer do you got?

He's like, oh, I just got five more minutes, dude. I'm like, all right. So I stand behind him kind of waiting. 15 minutes goes by. No way, bro. And inside my body, the fury in my body. I'm looking at this guy and I'm like, mad. And I'm like, ready to go tell him.

Like, what do you do? You're in flip, flop, whatever. and I catch myself. Yeah, it's your brother. I catch myself. Love, man. And I immediately, I'm like, that's why I need a savior. Because I have messed up, dude.

I went from loving people to this dude stretching the squat rack. They're ready to beat him with his foot last. And I'm ready to fight someone. Yeah, exactly. To my defense, that's annoying. Yeah. Yeah, I got to agree with you. That's super annoying.

Especially after you asked him that. And it's like, just a little bit of self-awareness just takes to look over and go, Oh, look, all the squat racks. I'm taking it up to stretch. Bro, and he was even like really stretch. And he never lifted. He just was just.

Nothing. No, and his stretches were like, he'd hold on the bar and kind of twos. It's not even like a good stretch. Yeah, dude. I'm like, oh, no. Oh, my God. So much fear. Oh, my God.

Inside me, bro. It's so bad, bro. Oh, yeah, I would have said so. I got a funny story for you yesterday. So yesterday we're, so right now, I told you guys that we're in full swim practice mode. So every day, Max and I get in the pool when we swim. And he's now. But he swims.

He said right out the gates. Water wings are gone. But you know what's funny now is so Katrina, Katrina can't watch. Because he, I mean, he's not a good swimmer yet. Yeah, since he gets scared. So he bobs a little bit, you know what I'm saying? It goes under for a while. But what's great is, again, it's been so funny that my son on his terms, right?

Like we've never practiced really swimming at all. And we've always had let him have water wings. Now, when he's in the hot tub, he doesn't have, he doesn't need water. because it's only three and a half feet and he can stand up, right? So he doesn't wear those in there. And a lot of times him and I just hang out in the hot tub together.

And him and I go underwater. I've taught him how to hold his breath. So he can hold his breath for a really long time. Oh, wow. That's good. And so when I'm teaching him out of swim, I explain to him like, hey, just don't panic. And if you go under,

because you run, just hold your breath. Yeah. Hold your breath and then kick off the bottom. And so he's learned that he can just hold his breath and then he'll kind of work his way back out. And so sometimes when he's trying to figure it out, he's bobbing up. gets his brother, he sinks back down.

And I just sit back and just like, Katrina's like, ooh, get him. I'm like, calm down. He's fine. I'm like, trust me, he'll tell you. Because one time he did it and he jumped in, right? And then he bobbed down and his goggles got water in it. And he could, and then he's also in the deep end and he's like,

and he could, Daddy. And I'm like, I'm right here. And I grabbed him. And I said, and so I'm telling Katrina, I'm like, don't worry. Trust me. He'll tell you if he's scared. Like he knows what he's doing right now. But then he'll go under to hold his breath for a long time.

And Katrina, It was like she had to just turn around and walk, walk back in the house. You can't leave it. But anyways, that's how I was going to tell you. So that's our routine right now. And I'm, I'm letting him get in the sauna for a little bit for me. It's like five minutes. He gets in to the sauna for me.

And he gets in, he sits next to me. And he's like, oh, he's in there for like 30 seconds. He's like, oh, daddy, I'm, I'm sweating like you. And I'm like, yeah, maybe, maybe that's the water from the pool, though. And he's like, oh, no, I think I'm so, okay. So. And then he's like, he's looking down on himself because we're, like, looking to sweat.

And he's like, he's like, yeah, you see, you see my muscle? No, he did it. Yeah, yeah. So he's like, you see my muscles? Like, yeah, yeah. And he's like, looking at it. He's like, which one do you think is bigger? No.

And I'm like, you know, that one. And he's like, oh, yeah, that's the one I open the door with. It's always like comparing the right to the left. And he's trying to figure out why that one's bigger. You can't tell any discrepancy from the left of the right or he's like that one, too, but logically he's trying to figure out why that. is he's like oh that makes sense that's the one I I open the doors with you know

it's so funny my son will pick things and like Jessica be like which one do you want you want this or this I'll take that one because it's more muscular I'm like what what do you mean by more muscular sure here you go buddy you can have it I know I wish that you know this is another I got to get better at this I really wish I journal this is the type of stuff that like I'll forget this yeah you know no that's a good point it is

And I, I mean, what's cool is we do have this. And I, and one day maybe we can go back. Listen to a lot. You know, and pull it out. That's true. But there's so many episodes. Well, I mean, here's a positive thing of AI. Oh, you're right.

We'll be able to prompt AI pull out every story I told about my son. Oh, that's great. I didn't think of that. Yeah. I mean, how cool will that be for our kids when we get older that we could probably prompt AI, pull out all the stories I told about my son and put together a catalog of conversations about it? You know, along those lines, I want to tell you because I feel like you would be interested in this.

So there's a website. I don't know the name is. I'll get it for you. But Jessica, she organized all of our pictures. And she's got, like, tons and tons of pictures. She'll take them, organize them by the year. Yeah. And she makes these photo albums.

Yeah. Bro, they look amazing. Shutterfly? It might be. It might be Shutterfly. And so we have these books. And so she does a really good job of these books. And they're expensive, dude.

They're not cheap. No. But you know what I realize. Without those books, you don't look at these pictures. No, no. Nobody looks at them. Yeah. Yeah.

So I... They're gone. I did that for Katrina for the first five years of our relationship. Have you done any with sense? I have done some sense. I've done like...

And what do you have? Do you have them in the house somewhere? Yeah. I have a stack of them. They are really cool. And I wish I was more consistent. I am good though about my phone. So I do catalog all his photos are by the year.

So I have albums in my phone. for that exact reason so I can just upload them to Shutterfly and then I can print a book off. I haven't done it in a while. I also... I would never see I would never have the pay... If it was up to me, gone. They'd be gone.

Like, they're somewhere. But thankfully, my wife's patient and able to do that because that's not something I would do. Well, it's not something I appreciate it. It's not something I... So when I was a kid, I dated a girl in high school who was into photography.

And it was the first time in my life I'd been around somebody who was like really into it. And when I look back, it's one of the coolest things, the couple years that we were together. Like, I have that, I have a whole, I mean, I've got boxes of photos of like that whole timeline. I still have them. You're a bunch of photos with you and your ex-girlfriend. I have a very secure wife. So she's looked through them with me before. We bold have them. I've looked through her. I've looked through her. She's a lot. Yeah, exactly. Come on. It's like freaking 30 years ago. But my point is that it's so cool. But my point is that it's so cool.

And so when I got older, like, that was something I always loved and appreciated. And my wife is not into that stuff at all. And so I've kind of picked that up for us. It's not like something I think I'm good at. It's like that I just appreciate it so much that I'm like, I make a conscious effort to do it because I've got to appreciate it from somebody else. And you also, like I said, I won't look at these pictures. No, you won't. Until they're out in front of me in this book.

Plus there's something more like about a tangible. thing sitting in your like with family. Yeah and you can't explain it but everybody knows what I'm so what I love about those books like I'll have family that's visit that hasn't visited me and say years or where they'll come over my house and they look through them they look through them and then you pass them around and I mean it's just it there's a different experience that than looking on your phone and looking at photos or like that no it's speaking of things that we know are different but we don't think about very often in that book he was actually talking about music and music's power.

And I started to really think about, like, how strange the power that music possesses. Like, for example, how many things will not only affect your mind, so you can think about it, will also induce emotion. Oh, mood. And we'll not just do that. It'll do it to the point where you feel like you have to involve your body. Yeah. You got to move.

Think about this for a second. If this didn't exist, if dancing didn't exist, and then you suddenly saw music and you suddenly saw people dancing, you'd be like, what is happening? are they possessed? Like, why do they want to move to this thing? And it's so powerful. And I was thinking about this, that kids,

they instinctively or inherently know this. Like, you play music to a kid, they could never see anybody dance, and they suddenly want to move. It was funny to watch that with my boys and they're real young. And, you know, you want to keep that as innocent as possible.

So, like, I try not to, like, because they do some funny moves and stuff. I'm like, I don't want to, like, deter this at all. And so I remember being in Disneyland And they had like this jazz band playing And all of a sudden the boys just busted out They're the only kids there just like you know Really throwing their arms and hips and like just going to town

And like they used to do that all the time when I'd go downtown Santa Cruz and like somebody would be playing and they just get right in front and dance I'm like I never had like the courage to do that as a kid you know It was like it's interesting to watch You mash pit. Yeah which takes a lot of courage It is slam dance in your 40s Yeah

It's his own art form I think that I think all these things like that I'm so fascinated with that don't have to be taught that we just do Well there's something There's a lot of random things like that

Something magical or spiritual Which is what I believe About I mean also memory Before books were a thing People kept incredibly accurate Records of things Through song through song, through singing, and you know this.

Like, if you remember your ABCs right now, you sing it. Yeah. This is how you remember it. And what's crazy about this, as I was thinking about it, I'm like, you know what? We have this incredibly powerful thing called music. By the way, we could see this on FMRI machines. It lights up the whole brain. Nothing else does that.

Yeah. And we put no thought into the music we listen to other than I like it. Yeah. So, like, it impacts you so much. It's preaching to you and you don't think about it. Well, I think back in the day, they put a lot more effort because they didn't have all this, inundation of entertainment everywhere. And so you'd get people like, you know,

the Puritans that would like, you know, chastise everybody for playing certain types of music or if they shake their hips, it's like, oh my God, that's a sex right here. You know, like, so it's, it's gone quite a different direction. But I do think that, yeah, it's always been a powerful thing. It's a force. Well, think about this.

How many songs, do you're going to trip you guys out, right? How many songs, if you just had the lyrics and somebody said the lyrics, didn't have music in the background? They just read the lyrics. Would you listen to and have your, and plug your kids' ears? Like, do not listen to this. Oh, because it wasn't saying. But because it's part of music, we're like, I'll having a good time and you don't even think about it.

Except here's what's even crazy. The fact that it's two music makes it even more pervasive. It actually makes it more dangerous than if someone was just talking in a monotone voice and reading the lyrics. So you're seeing singing to the window to the wall is. Yeah, dude. While you bring up, you. Catch myself. There's a whole conspiracy rabbit hole on the whole hip hop culture.

That was like intentionally. Yeah, that was intentionally. Well, yeah. Because originally like hip hop started out pretty like, um, clean. Clean. Yeah, it was very clean. And yeah, and you had like run DMC. Yeah.

Like a lot of like really, uh, interesting, cool like, like educational almost like rap. And then it just, it turned into this like, yeah. Gangster. Yeah. It was very. And supposedly that was like all intentional. I wish I love both. I remember what, yeah, me too.

I can't remember what documentary. There's lots of things we liked that. Great. Yeah, no, right. That I was watching. I wish I remember what it was. All the old 70th rock was about like 17 year old girls. Oh my God.

I can't know believe it. Now as an adult, I'll listen to old rock sometimes. Like, what? Did he say? She's only 17. Like, bro, throw him in jail. Seriously. Yeah.

Yeah. So they arrest this guy. Immediately, bro. And you know what I wanted to tell you that, uh, You've got me doing now, and I've been consistent with it, and I swear I noticed a difference, is the, I've been trying to get really consistent with the, taking the ketone IQ. I saw you right before the podcast. Before we podcast. And there's definitely a mental clarity sharpness that comes from it.

Totally. Yeah. And it's, and, you know, I wasn't doing it because I was, I'm normally drinking my, my caffeine drinks. And I'm like, you know, there's a non-caffeine version. So I don't need to. Because it complements is so well. It does compliment. And so I was, you know, I'm thinking like, oh, I'm already getting like a cognitive boost and the caffeine and this and that.

And I'm like, so it wasn't. No, you can drink ketones and go to bed. It's not going to, it's not a stimulant. It's not going to keep you awake. It doesn't stimulate your central nervous system. It doesn't cause, you know, hormone responses like that. It's just you're giving your brain a fuel that it burns very clean. Yeah, it loves that fuel.

I mean, I'm enjoying the kind of the combo of I'm already having a caffeinated drink and then I have ketone IQ on top of that. Now, if you don't, like they have one that has caffeine also, but I'm already drinking caffeine outside of that. So I just have the- You do the one without it. Yeah, with alic caffeine. And it hits fast, too. Yep. Like, I'm only, I'm drinking it, like, right before we podcast,

and I can, like, feel it kind of switch over about 10, 15 minutes into it. Yeah. No, it works with. That's quick. Yeah, right. You could test it on a P-Stick, by the way. 30 minutes. I know, you said that.

I want to do that. Yeah, 30 minutes. Right before Pugas, let's do that. Is it really? Is that what the studies? Well, that's what I've seen. 30 minutes. I can see it on.

We'll compare sticks. Yeah, but I think depends. Thanks. I think it depends on if you have food in your stomach or whatever. But you can test it out, but the P-Sticks are super cheap. You can buy them on Amazon. And they turn purple or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

I used them when we were doing the keto-jured diet back in the days. That's what I was using. Speaking of diets and stuff, have you guys, because now we're at the age, have you guys, have you guys all done your colonoscopes? We're supposed to do it. Have you done them? Doug shit. I haven't done yours?

I haven't done one now. I did a full body scan. Wait a minute. You never did a colonoscopy? I've never done one. So this is like a big deal. We're supposed to. I mean, I don't.

I don't want to like... Kaiser's been hammering me about that. Disse your public service announcement, but I've heard some various things that make me... Like what? Like perforated colon, things like that. Oh, like the risk. Yeah, I mean, there are some risks associated with it.

So let's just say that. They're not saying you shouldn't do it, but I'm saying... Did our pre-nevote tests cover that? It did, but it's not as detailed. So when you go on the full-body MRI scan website, I know this, because I went to the doctor for something else for some other blood tests, and the doctor's like,

you haven't done your, you know, of course they make you feel good. I'm sure I'm going to get some heat from this. I said I did the prenuvo full body MRI and she went on the website. And on our website, it does say it'll notice, you know, large issues, but you probably still want to do a colonoscopy to look closer. So then she was like, well, there you go. So you need to do it. But yeah, I've never done it.

Are you going? Well, so here's a thing. The issue with colon cancer is you don't get symptoms until you're in a bad position. By the time you get symptoms, then they'll see and be like, oh, my God, you're at this stage. Now you've got to do aggressive treatment. Colonoscopies will find it so early that it's really easy. Or they'll find pre-cancerous polyps or whatever.

So I get it, but so invasive. So I told the doctor, I'm like, you know, I'm healthy. I did the full body scan. I really don't want to do it. She's like, you could do, there's this other test you could do. But it's also not one I really want to do where they send you a kit. Yeah. And you put a fecal one.

Yeah. Yeah. I have that just sitting in my house. That one I did. I do too. I have it sitting around too. Yeah, not today. I didn't know there was one that you could do it.

You poop in it in like a bag and then you mail. Yeah. I should do that one. And then they look in and they look for markers. The opposite of Santa Claus. You're just like, you know, like here you go. Here's my present.

And then when they, when they look for markers and if they see certain markers, then they'll schedule a colonoscopy to double check. If they see no markers, then I guess you can wait two or three years or whatever. But you still got a pooping up. I mean, that's much better. That's better than something...

Than the other way around. ...and giving you a... What you'm a call it? Yeah. Don't you think so? Yeah, it's better, but it's still not great. Well, no, of course. I don't know.

I don't think there's a great way around this. I have the same kit, Justin, at home. It's literally sitting with the... Yeah, it's like right there. I got like a week ago. It's just sitting there. There's stuff that you have to drink all day before you go do it is crazy. A colonoscopy?

Yeah. Yeah, dude. And I've never done it. To clear you out. My brother did one. Yeah. You can give you some kind of sedative or some kind of drug when you're doing that? Yeah, and you're not asleep.

Yeah, because I, my friend did it. And I was trying to get him to go. This is a long time ago. You know how many doctors are going to write in and just blasts? Oh, I don't know. He will get blessed with us. He was on something and, like, was all out of it because, like, he wanted to hang out that night and he just had a cold moscopy.

Your buddy? Yeah. Like, you'll look right, dude. We should take you home, dude. I think they went in a little too far. Yeah, I'm trying to hang out after a day of that. Like, no way. I don't know what it is about this colonoscule.

Yeah, he had to be my wingman. I'm in the mood to hang out. Oh, my God. Yeah, this is like way back. Yeah. I'm going to need a day. I'm going to do it. He was not.

He was not. It's 50 is the number, isn't it? No, 40. No. Yeah, once you're 40, look at it. Oh, we're way past that. When do you're supposed to do colonoscopy? I think it's 40.

I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it's 50. No, no, no. It's, it's. They just, they thought you're already past 50. She's not. 45. 45.

There you go. There you have to be 45. All right. You're barely passing. You're like, damn, he's almost 60. You need to do this, you know. So how effective, just look this up. Like, how effective are colonoscopies at, for survival rates?

I think let's look that up. Because I don't want to look up how effective they are at detecting cancer, but rather, do they really affect? Yeah. Like survival rates? Have they made an impact? What was it? Dr. Benson was one that pushed us towards the full body scan, right? By 50 to 88% cell.

Who undergo the procedure once you detect it, right? Here we go. Wow, studies show that screening colonoscopy lowers the risk of death from colon cancer by 50 to 88%. Well, all right. Sorry. That's a good number. Yeah, dude. That's pretty solid.

It is compelling. Can you do general anesthesia? I don't want to be awake. You know what I don't want to be awake when you do that? Hey, what's going on over there. Do you want to be put down? How long? Yeah, I don't want to know what happened.

How long of a process is it? I don't know, look it up, though. How long are the point will be? This is important stuff. We all are in this. We all need to get this done. Well, the conversations we have now are just incredible. We're losing our young guys.

I know. Depending on the barriers. That's a good range there. Why not? I want to be 15 minutes. I can do that. 15 minutes. 30 is a long time.

Dude. You get out. Can you get out now? Yeah, yeah. We're way past here. But it says plan to spend two to three hours total? Yes. At the hospital.

Yeah. So my brother. My brother did it, and he had to drink, I don't know what it's called. He said it was like an orange drink, I guess the color orange. And he's like, dude, it cleans you out. Oh, it used to be like a white, milky look. Oh, I don't know. He's like, bro, you go.

Oh, yeah. And you go until nothing. I was with somebody where they had to do it. And I was with them all day long. So it was like, it's just once it gets going, you're on there. You're basically just living on a toilet for a day. Mir relax. That's all it is?

Yeah, I guess. You buy over the counter. Okay. I don't know. I've never used to do it. I thought it was like some special thing. Yeah, it was literally like a, um, she had to do like a gallon of it. Oh my God.

Yeah, it was like a ton. Yikes. It was a lot. It just was a drink on all. I almost had to get a colonoscopy once because I was in my 20s. Um, and I had some issues going on. And I went to the doctor and, uh, they checked me. And they're like, now you're fine.

But it was because I ate Captain Crunch cereal. What? Yeah, dude. Oh, and you were, bro. It doesn't just cut. It doesn't just cut up your mouth. Oh. Especially you were so old at hole,

bro, I went to town and a ball. You ate too fast. And I felt it like the next day, but I freaked out, you know, I went to the doctor. Oh, wow, that's hilarious. That's fun. That's a good time. Captain Crunch, dude.

It stays crunchy. You crunched you. Tear your jaw. It'll tear some of the other than it doesn't get soggy in milk, though. Just tear off the roof of your mouth. No. Pour me up a little bit. Oh, my God.

That's hilarious. You guys want some unverified. news, local news? Yeah. A complete, like, disclosure. Like, I've heard this from just people. Like, like, this gymnastic gym. Okay.

And this is local news. So there was, like, all this hoopla around this trailer park home. It's like an upscale trailer park home, if that's a thing. Adam used to live in that. Yeah. Sorry, Adam. The king. Sorry.

Just caught a stray. Sorry, girl. Sorry, dude. So, yeah, so there's all these cops and, like, everybody was wondering in the, in the community, like, what's going on here? They were, like, raiding this house. It turns out the FBI was there rating it. And so then it became, like, a Facebook thing of everybody, like, speculating, oh, what's happening? This person, of course, they're thinking, like, maybe it's, like, child porn or, like, it's something in that, yeah, direction.

Well, apparently, like, according to, you know, my insider source, uh, they said that, like, this person was actually then taken in an ambulance to the hospital because of formaldehyde poisoning. Oh. Yeah. And so now you start with how you get for formaldehyde poisoning, right? For me, like, immediately I'm like, is this person like a freaking necrophiliac? Is this like a dead body eater? Yeah.

You know? Because that's preserved. That's what used a preserve like. He uses a preservative. So I wasn't that far off. Apparently, like to, according to them, they were saying that, uh, This person had, like, got access to the black market and was able to buy, like, testicles that were ferment formaldehyde, you know, encased and was sucking on. What?

I have no idea. Some crazy fetish or whatever. And, yeah. So that's the kind of person that was living, like, you know, a couple miles away. I thought of your place. Wow. Wow. I was like, cool.

So like a, you know, a weekend kind of Jeffrey Dahmer type, dude, great. You know, like can we be out with the news with this and like a full report? Or do I have to like, you know, have nightmares in that. Hey, kids, don't go in that direction. Yeah, I was like, let's just avoid this. That's where the ball eaters live. Yeah.

The tessies. The tessies are over there. The weird. Testable eater. You know, you know what glandular therapy is? Just reminded me that. So back in the day, eating an organ, they believed corresponded to your organ. For your own health towards...

That's liver king. I mean, they would eat testicles of animals thinking that... Yeah, that's liver king. Isn't it still... Do you eat testicles too? Yes! That was his big thing. Come on.

Yes. Oh, he did, yeah. Oh, yeah, he did all that raw testicles, yes. Any raw? Yeah, and raw, bro. Why can't cook them? That's what I always want to. Why not cook it?

Yeah. You're going to be gross? Cook it. What's the problem with cooking? Why does it have to be raw? Is he still relevant? Like, he's falling wrong? No, no.

I have not. I have not heard anything about him. But Katrina asked me the day about him. Like, because we watched that documentary a while back. And she's like, whatever happened to him? You know what's weird these days? The interest fell off a cliff. The cycle of Flash in the Pan fame is so fast now.

Yeah. That somebody will become everywhere and then gone in like a year. Yeah. It's wild. What does it say there? He's still there, huh? Yeah, six million TikTok followers, three million on Instagram. but according to this, he's faded from his pop culture.

Look on Instagram. I'm looking at him right now. Is he posting still? Yeah, he's still posting. But it definitely looks like he's way less relevant for sure. I should hope so. That's so crazy. Maybe he's the guy.

I mean, he doesn't look good either. He didn't before either. It looked like he was eating raw testicles, actually what he looked like. You know, what's interesting is to see Paul. Saladino's progression from his carnivore diet. Yeah. Yeah. He's adding in carbs.

He's now eating everything. Lane roasted him so bad the other day. Lane did like a timeline. Lane lives for that. I know he goes. Lane did like a timeline of his diets. I mean, at this point he's kind of like, do you know he was actually originally like vegan?

He was a vegan. Then he went carnivore. Yes. And it's like cured everything. And I only eat me. That's all I eat. Yeah. Then it went honey.

Honey. And then fruit. And then I'm going to throw in certain kinds of fruit. Does that sound like the progression of like people that are super like excited? And now he's eating vegetables. Now he's eating vegetables, fruit. I mean, now he's calming down into balance. The next one, what's the next one?

Sandwiches? Sandwiches are giving me more. Oh, man, dude. I mean, we. There's a lot of just, listen, I'm not going to discount that some people with lots of autoimmune issues can benefit from a massive elimination diet, what that is. But what you're looking at with a lot of people who eat in this way is dysfunction.

It's like a form of orthorexia. And so it doesn't surprise me. Well, wouldn't you also, even the people, even the extreme cases, right, that have major autoimmune stuff. Yeah. Michaela Peterson's a good example. Right. But even her, actually, she's gone away from just doing that, too.

She's reinterested, she had to reintroduce stuff. What is she eating, man? I don't, I can't remember everything, but I do know she's talked about it. It's been a long time since I've, I've peaked in on what she's doing. But I know she's not just eating just me anymore. And that's a great example of my point I was going to make was, I think a lot of people can benefit tremendously from a very strict elimination diet, which that's what that is.

And then heal whatever autoimmune issue you've got going or gut issue, you got going on. You want to live there. And exactly. Then eventually you would want to reintroduce things that are not offensive. Yeah. That are in other food groups. So you have flexibility. Yeah.

Right. And so. Remember when Justin went carnivore for a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. I still like. I still dabble every now. I just like eating meat, dude.

It's not even about, like, you know, rigid lines or anything. It's very rigid. But what made you want to go through? I feel like he's more... I just like it. Yeah, as I said, I feel like it's a more simple approach for him. It's just like... He's not the opposite of vegan, dude.

That's why. That's why. That's why. But you have actually... I don't want to be associated with that. You have actually got sick of it, right? Like, eating the meat. Yeah, well, I didn't...

You know, you're not really energetic. You know, like, I don't have a lot of, like, performance benefits from it or anything. I just, you know, you guys are giving me so much shit about being fat. Shut up, ma'all. Shut up. Just kidding. We traumatized this. It's more easy.

It's lazy, dog. It's just hell easy. He just took a bunch of meat on the barbecue and then he threw that's it. 100%. Yeah. It was just, I could just do bacon on top of, like, burgers and, you know, like, for me, it was just a fun experiment.

You didn't do a very long, right? And I still had a cheese, dude. I was going to, I was like, again, no rigid lines. It was cheese of war. You were cheese of war. Cheese meat, dude. How long did you do it? I did it for a couple weeks.

No, it was like a month. Hey, what cheese was it we brought? Was it Parmesan? What was it that we brought up the other day? High protein per calorie or whatever it is. They sell Parmesan crackers at the store now. Well, so I... Two of them and it's like...

I eat those instead of, yeah. So I thought it was Parmesan. Okay, I'm glad I got that right because I was making my potatoes in the oven. And one of the things, when I make like my tri-tip or some of me, I do these like garlic, parsley, butter, and parmesan potatoes that I make. and I went to town on the Parmesan because of that last thing I said I was like

Norma Protein. Yeah, yeah exactly. Normally I'd sprinkle it on for a little bit of flavor and I'm like, oh, no, let's make a layer of this. Yeah.

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Use the code Mind Pump. Get 20% off your order. Back to the show. Our next caller is Alex from Mississippi. What's up, man? Oh, hey, boys. Just doing, you know, sitting here doing a little reading. Y'all seen this one?

Don't interrupt. That's awesome, dude. Yeah, yeah, it's good. Looking at the routine right now, you know, trying to put a little something together. Good deal, man. What's going on, Alex? How can we help you? I don't work for you.

Yeah, I'm going to read my question to stay on topic. My original question was, 34-year-old dad of three, struggling to figure out correct intensity, consistency, and volume I need with everything else going on with work and kids and spouse and everything, trying to increase these variables. Each time I change one, it seems like I go too far into soreness or tightness or just my central nervous system is toast for a few days. So by the time I get to the next workout, a lot of weeks I just don't feel ready for it.

I'm just exhausted from the previous workout or work or whatever. I have been to the gym since I was 17. I've done a lot of things wrong the last few years, but I've also learned a lot, especially from you guys, been listening probably since around 2019, and I've dialed in a lot of things that you guys have preached on the podcast,

but still trying to learn how to adjust these variables as I progress, even as I age. And I'm wondering, could one day of week of training from, like, a MAPS anabolic be adequate, or should I go the opposite direction and dive into, like, a MAPS 15 training protocol? Yeah, good.

To give you a little more background, as a younger lifter, I had some acute back injuries that led to several years of back pain. One was a par stress fracture revealed in an x-ray. Other three bulging discs revealed in an MRI. I know that the pain from these may have started with acute events, but I've learned from another coach that I had worked with that the chronic symptoms stuck around due to overtraining, poor sleep, management, things that I've learned to manage better. I work for Pepper's Farm as a vendor, so I deliver, sell, and stock grocery stores with Goldfish crackers, Milano cookies, bread, and buns. So I do walk 10 to 15,000 steps a day, and I'm up and down pretty active. I have dialed back

a lot of my training, again, advice from you guys, improve my sleep quality and increased ability to manage everyday stress, but I'm wanting to progressively dial up the training. to get some of my strength back to where it was before the chronic pain. Okay. So where should I go from here? And your pain's okay now? Yes. It's, um, I actually hired an online coach out of Florida that works specifically with,

uh, back pain. And, um, he taught me essentially not only how to, you know, start at the right, um, movement and progressively dial it up. but also a lot of the stress management, the desensitizing techniques that he taught me to remove my brain out of the equation. He taught me a lot about the neuroplasticity of the brain and how pain can be a learned behavior. And so now that I've gotten a lot of that dialed in, some of the actual specifics to programming, I'm always trying to improve on those. I'm expensive as I want to keep getting stronger as I get closer to 40. Okay. And you're, you said your sleep styled in now or you worked on it. What does that look like?

I probably used to sleep five to six hours a night. Now I average seven hours. And on good weeks where my kids don't have like late sporting events and stuff, I can get closer to, you know, eight hours a night. Nice. What time do you wake up in the morning? Depending on the day. A lot of mornings, it's 4 a.m. other mornings is 4.30, 4.45. It just depends on the day. And then diet-wise, how are you with hitting protein and all that stuff? Yeah, I hit between, I weigh 185 pounds. I hit between 160 to 190 grams of protein a day, probably. When you find yourself getting fried with your workouts, what does the workout look like? What leads up to that? Usually, so like right now I'm doing MAPS handiabolic, and I'm doing it definitely one day a week.

and so I can feel really good. Like today I'll go do, like I haven't worked out since Sunday. So like today I'll go do MAPS Anabolic Day 1 and I can hit it pretty good. Like I feel really good right now because today is kind of a shorter work day. But by the time Saturday or Sunday hits and I want to hit day two, I'm still pretty fried. And so I'll either skip the workout or I'll do the workout at like 40%. Okay. and I want to keep like, I guess, I don't know, I just can't seem to get past, you know,

some of the milestones of like what I, what I, and maybe I need to get out of my head what I once was lifting, what I once could squat and what I can squat now. Yeah. Because my range of motion in a squat is definitely improved, but I don't even squat close to what I used to squat. Even in a shorter range of motion I couldn't right now. I'm more concerned about the getting fried after one, workout with everything that you're telling me. So I want to dig a little bit deeper. Well, it sounds like he's over applying intensity in those workouts.

Well, that's another question. Are you going to failure? Are you like hammering yourself when you feel good? No, I feel really good in the workout. And then even when I finish the workout that day, I feel really good. But I am like, if I get in a set of squats, even if I'm doing a lighter weight, I'm going, like if I'm feeling good that day, I'm slowing the rep down and I would say it's like 80% effort. 80 to 90% max out. I mean, we're pushing max effort in those days I feel good. And then if I'm not feeling good, I dial it back.

I might do a slightly lighter weight and I'll speed the rep up a little bit because I'm just trying to hit the motion. But yeah, the intensity is dialed back on those days. I do not feel good. But if I feel good, I'm hitting a pretty intense workout. But you're not going to failure. No, not failure. Okay.

Have you had your nutrient levels tested? No, haven't. Okay. This sounds to me like a potential nutrient deficiency, and I would also look at your hormones. Okay. Because you shouldn't feel fried from one appropriate intensity, maps workout a whole week later. You do have an active job, but it's not like crazy. You are getting not bad sleep.

Again, good sleep. You are hitting your protein. It sounds to me like a nutrient deficiency because you've got kind of some of the symptoms of what like a zinc or more likely vitamin D deficiency would look like. And that's an easy blood test. Really easy blood test. Okay. See where you're at. And vitamin D deficiency will feel like you can't recover.

Pain. It could be low mood. definitely affect your hormones. I would also look at your hormones because if you're in chronic low testosterone, then it's going to feel like this also. Okay. Yeah.

And those are easy tests. Those are real inexpensive, easy tests to get. And could that also be like, not even like sometimes I don't approach soreness that much, but like there's definitely some tightness like in my hamstrings. Yeah. Like, okay, okay. Because I'll feel that's when it'll take me like, even if I do a low effort day, like day two of maps anabolic, again, I know the movement is good at a lighter effort, but it'll take me multiple sets of a lot of effort and then it'll finally loosen up a little bit.

Yeah. And those are the days I wish I could push the envelope a little more to continue to improve over time, but I have trouble doing that. Yeah. And you're, where are you located? You guys got a lot of sun there? Or is it seasonal? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm outside all the time.

Okay. We're over here and... Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, get your nutrient levels tested, very inexpensive test and get your hormones level tested. I have a feeling that's where you're going to see what's going on. If those come back good, if everything's great there, the next place I would look would be any kind of heavy metal or mold exposure.

Because the symptoms that you're giving me based off of the stuff you're doing and all that, it sounds like your, you're either nutrient deficiency or your body is, is dealing with some kind of chronic stress coming from an external source, like a heavy metal or mold. Okay. But I would, if I had to bet, and I don't know, we can't know unless we test, I'd say it's a nutrient deficiency. And I've had a few of these with clients where it seems like everything's good, but like, what's going on?

Then we, then we suddenly, they start supplementing with vitamin D. and like a week later it's like you just turn on the lights. Everything's feeling way better. Okay. So don't change the program. Keep the programming as it is and focus on those two things. You're not overdoing it. No, I mean, I think that should be able to recover.

If you're not training to failure, you're only doing MAPS and a ball. Like, you're even backing off on intensity when you don't feel like it. You're hitting your protein intakes. You're getting seven hours of sleep. Yeah. Good days, eight. I mean, you're doing a lot of the things that we would normally go like. Like, okay, here's, like, if you were really under-eating protein, you would feel this way.

Or if you're like five hours of sleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those two seem to be okay. And so I'm with Sal, like you're, it's most likely something else going on here. And low testosterone or a nutrient deficiency would be the next two places. You get them all tested together. It's a real easy, inexpensive test. Yeah.

And you got to have partners for that, right? You can go functional medicine if you want. which would be out of pocket. But, I mean, you work for Pepperidge Farm. I'm assuming you have medical insurance. Well, we're independent contracts, so I have to pay cash for all that type of stuff. But, I mean, I can do that.

That's not like a huge deal. I wasn't expecting this answer. So maybe I'm, but I do. This makes more sense because a lot of times I'm like, just stop being a sissy and just push the envelope. But I did that before and messed up my back. So I'm trying to do that again.

Which also is another sign too, is that a little bit of you pushing it and you get an injury. So it's a super. It's a super easy test. So what you want is a full hormone panel. Yeah. And you want a nutrient panel, which will include vitamin D. And you just get those and see what they say.

Alex, how's, how's libido? Oh, it's, yeah. Yeah, it's good. Okay. My wife probably wished it was a little less. Okay. Well, that's a good sign. Yeah, that's a good.

But just so you know, I had low, I had really low testosterone. My libido was okay. Yeah. So it doesn't mean that. I just wanted to know. Because if you also had low libido, it almost. Yeah, I've been pointing to testosterone. Yeah.

But I've thought about that before, but I know that doesn't answer, that doesn't answer all the questions. And again, there's days like I'll wake up. And since figuring out in the back problem, there's days I would wake up and I feel, because for years when you're dealing with chronic pain, like you're just exhausted all the time. And then I, I like got to a point once I fixed that,

there'd be days. I tell my wife, man, I feel 22 again. Like, I can't believe the energy levels I'm at. And then probably like the last. six months, I don't have the pain, but I wouldn't say the energy and the ability to push a workout is where I wish it would be. Yeah. Yeah.

Why don't we do this? Great eight might be good. I mean, obviously, like, the amount isn't the issue. And, like, we're kind of talking about that. But I think, like, just doing one thing a day to express some movement and contraction would be good. Yeah. In the meantime, I'll send you MAPS grade eight, which you could totally follow and see how you feel.

But why don't we do this? why don't we have you back on in 60 days, which will give you enough time to do your test. Both those tests. And that way, if you come back and they're good, we can start pointing you in different directions. Or if they're not good, then we know what the answer is. Gotcha.

Okay, that sounds great. Yeah. We'll see you in 60 days, dude. Thanks, guys. Appreciate you. You got us. Yeah. And I probably made me a little scared,

but that's what, I mean, because it's not as intense. It's a bit concerning. Not the intensity. It's not the volume. Yeah. His sleep's okay. He's not, you know, his age is okay. His protein is okay.

Yeah, like, I mean, I should be able to recover from that. Those are kind of the order, you know, it's like sleep. And I'm hoping it's not heavy metal or mold because that's a much bigger pain in the butt. You got a move or like, yeah, something drastic. My dad, this happened to my dad. And my dad, okay, is always outside. He's always outside. And he had, his pain was getting worse and worse and worse.

He'd feel like low energy. Didn't know what was going on. Go to the doctor. Here, take ibuprofen. Oh, you need more stretching. And this happened for a while. And now my dad's much older. My dad's also worked hard labor since he was nine.

So, of course, he's like, oh, I guess my body's just breaking down. MRI show arthritis here, arthritis there. He went and got a routine blood test. His vitamin D was low. We started taking vitamin D. It was like, boom, total change. It was like such an easy, cheap. Yeah, it's like a light switch.

Well, you know, you know my theory on that I've shared with you before, my own experience. Maybe it was like a certain level that you're used to. Yes, like he's, he was, he was, he was probably, I bet if you were to ask him in his 30s and 40s, he was in the sun way more than he is today at his age being retired and stuff. I think of myself as a teenager and kid,

I mean, I lived in the sun on the lake, like just 24-7, and then it wasn't until a few years after working at the gym where I was under fluorescent lights all day. Still active. Yes, and still go outside. I still did outside stuff,

but nowhere near the frequency and amount of exposure. And vitamin D deficiency is relatively common and suboptimal vitamin D is very common. So it's not a bad place to look. I'm hoping it's that because that's an easy thing to fix. If it's not that, then it's like, okay, we've got to look at a little deeper,

which then is a bit of a pain. But yeah, we'll see. Our next caller is Dale from Connecticut. What's up, Dale? How are you doing, Dale? It's what happened. It's going to out, guys. How can we help you?

Just want to say thanks for taking my question. Really appreciate it. So I'm going to do an abbreviated, version of my question, but my question is what approach modifications in or maps program would you recommend for someone who wants to put a lot of muscle on and get stronger, but

has some nagging injuries that prevent doing certain lifts like squat from my low back and bench my front shoulder, possibly from CrossFit. Someone who struggled to put on muscle in the past, but I'm pretty

sure I wasn't doing anything right. So after listening to you guys, just a little background and context. I'm 40 years old, 6-2, 162 pounds currently. Somewhat active, but not working out as consistently as I'd like. I stopped doing CrossFit probably like eight, nine months ago, and I was in pretty good shape but not where I wanted to be. and I've gained a bunch of fat and probably lost some muscle since then. I've always leaned toward being more skinny

and always kind of thought of that myth of being a hard gainer. But I was doing CrossFit for about four to five days a week for about two years. And I quit because I was in a pretty bad place physically. I was really run down. all my lifts were suffering and they regressed. I couldn't touch any of my 1RMs from like previous strength cycles. I was also full carnivore for most of that. Yeah, I've had struggled with gut issues for the past like eight, 10 years.

And I did a lot of keto carnivore on and off, but then I did a stint of about three years of full carnivore. But towards the end, I started reintroducing carbs and I was tolerating them doing well. So I was adding them in in the last strength cycle and it really didn't seem to help. In hindsight, I probably was over-training, under-eating. So even with the carbs, I probably still didn't have enough calories. And just to speak to the injuries, I herniated a disc like 15 years ago. got x-rays, went through a chiropractor, he got me mobile again, but after that,

a lot of reaggravations and triggers, lifting stuff, and I'd be back at the chiropractor. I actually went through physical therapy twice for it because it was pretty bad. Then my front shoulder, that happened during CrossFit probably after about a year, and it's just, you know, in the full range of motion of like dips, bench press, pushups. I'll get this really bad pinching pain to my front shoulder. So I have a three-year-old and I have like a limited work schedule. I do have like a kind of decent home gym. But I was looking at Maps 15 and I'm like, I don't want to get this and not be able to perform some of the lifts or, you know, how to

modify them or address them or whatever. So, yeah, that's where that and like the diet piece, now that my diet's opened up, kind of not sure where to go if I want to get, well, I kind of have an idea now from listening to you guys. But, you know, my biggest goals are strength and, you know, putting on muscles. So, good. Yeah. How's your gut health now?

It's much better. I think that that stint of three years maybe really helped. But after reintroducing carbs, I seem to do fine with them. I just have to – sugar is really the big thing. I can't do too much of that. Okay. If you – so bumping your calories and eating more is an issue, or do you start to get gut issues if you just start eating too much?

As far as I know, no, I don't think it would be an issue. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's actually a pretty simple formula for you, so long as the gut health doesn't become an issue, because if it does, you've got to solve what that is. And then that would be a functional medicine practice.

Commissioner. You got to get on a bulk and MAPS symmetry would be your program or MAPS 15 symmetry would be your program. What does your sleep and activity outside of workouts look like? What's your sleep look like? Sleep's not great. I've always struggled with sleep. I tend to, if I can get good sleep, it's like seven hours. Having a three-year-old, she's kind of going through like a little bit of regression right now. So she wakes up like in the middle of the night sometimes and has a bad dream, you know, whatever. So that kind of will affect it. When you do get, like she doesn't wake up or whatever, are you able to sleep all night? Or do you wake up in the middle?

Most of the time I wake up at least once. Okay. So, MAPS-15 symmetry. You got to eat in the bulk. So that's going to look at least like 3,000, 3,500 calories. Nice. Your body weight and protein, probably twice as much in carbs at least to make up the rest in fat. And what I'd want you to do before going to MAPS-15 symmetry is do our seven-day over-training rescue guide, which is free. And you can get that at mindpumpfrey.com, but I'll have Doug send that over to you,

the link to it. Also, follow. Map Symmetry, too. And he's also going to send you Map Symmetry 15. So do the seven-day over-training rescue guide first. That's week one. Get into the bulk right out the gates.

And after that seven days, follow Maps 15 symmetry. And that's going to help with the pain. It's going to help with the imbalances. Use a weight that's appropriate. it. So if it hurts, go a little lighter, but I think it'll balance things out and start to make it feel better. Rest for that three to five minutes in between sets. So we're real strength specifically focused. The only thing I would add to that is some sort of a mobility routine. I don't know if you got one from your PT or you had one when you were at CrossFit.

Did you have anything that you were doing for like the hips and your upper back and things like that were you doing anything? Yeah, a little bit for the hips. Back has always been just, you know, like extensions and stuff like that. but nothing really beyond that. When you're talking about the front shoulder pain and you were pressing it with your hand, can you feel it if you push on it? If I push on my shoulder. Yeah, if you push on the area,

can you find a sore spot? No, no, not really. Okay. So, but where you're poking looks like bicep tendon inflammation. So you might want to try some bicep static stretches. Like literally stretch your bicep out on that arm. It usually looks like the arm goes behind you

with your arm totally straight. and you do a static stretch there. And if you notice pain relief right out the gates, then it's probably that. Use a doorway sometimes for that helps. Yep. Okay. Yeah.

That's it. Follow that protocol. Bulk, seven-day rescue guide, jump into math 15 symmetry. And so long as your diet is good, you're eating adequate calories, you'll get stronger for sure.

Awesome. That's it, brother. All right. Thanks a lot, guys. I really appreciate it. You're good, man. Reach back in if you're running to have you. Yeah, reach back in if you have any challenges.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Thank you. You got it. Send him a half off for Prime Pro also. I think he would benefit from adding some mobility stuff just for like scapula. I feel like we need a CrossFit recovery guide. Dude. Don't you guys think?

That's actually a good news. You know what it looks like? Stop doing it. This is your new formula. Hey, dude, at CrossFit for two years, four or five days a week plus carnivore? Dude, carnivore. He's not like no energy and you're doing all that crazy. I wonder.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. Our next caller is Elizabeth from Wyoming. Hi, Elizabeth. Hi, Elizabeth. Hello. Hi. Well, thanks for having me on today. I really appreciate it.

Yeah. Sure. Yeah, how can we help you? Okay. So, like I said in my email, I have been working out with a friend a couple times on and off, and I've told her about how important it is to rest between sets for weight training. and muscle growth.

And she was kind of hesitant, but she went along with it because she was working out with me, you know. And she tends to be one that's, she's an endurance athlete, but she also likes to weight train. But when she's invited me, I'm like, that just sounds like a bunch of cardio. And so her husband is a very proficient physical therapist who have actually been to see. He's really incredible. but she was saying, well, you know, my husband said that's not true. And so I've just wanted to have a conversation either with her or him, but I wanted more to back up what I'm saying about how important rest is besides just

well on this podcast. The mindful guy said it. So how else would you recommend that I have that conversation? And I know, like, even if you just do a Google search, it says best arrest three, to five minutes. But anyhow, that's my question. How would you recommend having this conversation? Well, maybe, yeah, maybe his angle where he's coming from with her is from a movement

perspective, because that's how a physical therapist would normally end, and whether you're resting 30 seconds or three minutes, practicing the movement has tremendous benefit and is good for you. But in regards of building muscle, he couldn't be more wrong. Yeah, so if that's where he's. he's going for so yeah this is interesting so you you basically want to win an argument yeah um well i mean yes and no but i also because she's like i want it all i want to have endurance i want to be strong i would be flexible and i'm like okay but if you want to be strong like stop doing so much stuff and just

and the studies are pretty clear on this the best way to do that to have all of it is not to do it all in in a single workout it would be to cycle and run and run phases of each i i'd really like to hear from him because it's interesting to me that a physical therapist would say that. So I wonder if he's saying something else and she's hearing what he wants to hear or, you know, if he's saying you can, you can still build some strength, but, you know, doing it this way, which you can. She might have selective hearing. But you're very limited. But the data on like what makes strength training strength training. So anaerobic training versus aerobic training is like the most, it's like some of the most established science in the science of exercise. It's like super, it's not even something anybody

debates because it's very, very clear. So it's interesting to me that he would say that. But I mean, honestly, Elizabeth, like a simple Google, you could probably send him, you know, 20 peer-reviewed studies. Yeah. And it's just, it'll just, so it's like, I'm wondering if he's saying something. something else. Sure. Because you have to, when you're training, when you're training for an adaptation, what you're actually training is an energy system.

Okay. So if I'm training for endurance, I'm training the energy system for endurance, which is glycolytic. When I'm training, which strength also involves that, but I'm really focusing on something called ATP. And so when I'm training for strength, if I go pure glycolytic, I'm going to get stamina, I'm not going to get a ton of strength. But if I want to get strength and explosive power, then pushing into fatigue in that way

takes away from that. And you can just look at athletes. Look at endurance runners versus sprinters. How do sprinters train versus marathon runners? Sprinters sprint and they walk back real slow. It's more anaerobic. They wait for a while. They take their time.

And then they sprint again. They're not like running as hard as he can for long distances because that would be stamina. If I had to guess how this conversation went, I can imagine, I can envision the two of you working out together. She's doing her crazy circuit training with no rest period. And you're telling her, hey, mind pump guys talked about this before. If we want to build muscle, we need to have longer rest periods. And then she goes back to her husband and says, my friend tells me that I need to have longer rest periods if I want to build muscle. And he goes, that's not true. So, and with that, in that context, if it went like that,

He's right. You can build some, you could definitely build some muscle and build some strength without. But very limited. Yeah, but you're limited to that, right? And at some point, she will adapt to that mode of training. And then the best thing for her to do would be to move out of it. And I'd love to have that argue with them all day long because I'll concede that, yes, if somebody who never lifts weights, lifts weights in a circuit fashion, they can absolutely build some strength and build some muscle. But it's very limited to how long.

So she'll build a little bit. she'll adapt to that. Barely compares, though. And then she'll plateau. And so the next, and then again, the next best thing that she could absolutely do would be to change. Now, and the opposite would be true.

If she was a power lifter who rested for five minutes all the time and for 10 years, she's done that, throwing her through a circuit training with short rest periods would build muscle too. But if that's what she trains all the time, it's not going to do. So, I mean, all you got to do is look at how strength athletes train versus endurance athletes,

It's very different. Yeah. It's very, very different. They look nothing alike. Now, oftentimes you'll hear someone that says, I want everything. I want endurance. I want strength. I want stamina.

I want flexibility. And so, and you can get a little bit of all those things, but you'll never be great at any one of those because you're trying to do all of them, which is okay if that's what you want. So, you know, it really depends on the individual. But I will say this, you have to be very careful. programming gets really, really nitty-gritty when you're trying to get everything, because the tendency is overdo it all when people want that.

So that's a different conversation. Yeah. And I, right. Yeah. And she's, I mean, she's definitely one of those people that, I mean, she really enjoys it. And, you guys would say, yeah, you're way overdoing it. But, you know, I mean, that's like you said, another conversation, you know, and she's fasting and stuff.

And I'm like, you're making your life too hard. Elizabeth, I mean, you know the best way to win these arguments is to not have the argument to just go do the thing. Go do your thing. And when she sees your transformation and strength and all the things you order, you're like, I kind of, I tried to tell you. I tried to tell you there was a better way to do this. How tied are you to training with her? Is this really important that you work out with her? Oh, it's just been a handful of times.

It's funny because she's actually my boss. And so we were traveling for work. So we went to the weight room together. And she was like, I'll do your thing. You know, a workout with you. And she did. And we've done it a couple times. And it's fun because, you know, like at work, we'll take a squats break and we'll go do some air squats at 10 and 3.

And we get a bunch of people. And it's. But, yeah, I mean, I like to do some strength training and cardio like four days a week or so, three to four days. And she's every day. And I'm like, nah. I'll give you a little life advice because she's your boss. You know, don't push too hard to try to win this argument. Oh, yeah.

And we're good friends, too. Okay. Yeah, just train yourself. Yeah. And when you do your workouts with her, if you just having fun, go out and have fun. And if she asks you questions about your training, you can answer them. But it's really hard when somebody's set on something like this. It's really hard to convince them otherwise.

You got to kind of wait it out. until they really come back to you. Yeah. Best thing to do is just go get strong on your own and bury her and squats on six months. That's exactly what I would do. Whatever she's doing you. You would say, hey, how's that circuit trading working out for you? No, no, no.

That's your boss, dude. Well, and I think it's working out because, you know, I mean, we've worked out together two or three times tops, and we are good friends, and we can have those conversations, and it's not like a deal with work at all. but she came back to me and she was like, hey, I mentioned that to Craig. So in my head, I'm thinking, oh, so you thought about that. And you questioned the way that you were working out. So I was kind of like, okay, maybe it's working.

I don't know. Yeah, yeah, just keep doing you. Yeah, you can refer our podcast too. I mean, she can just listen to how we describe it. Oh, I do. All the time, all the time. I'm like, do not let your 20-year-old get onto GOP one. She just needs to work out like spring.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. By the way, since you like this stuff and your intro, you're like, I don't know if you use our AskmindPump.com, but our AI is incredible for this. It'll pull up episodes and stuff. Yeah. So like you little, yeah, you so, you could have prompted that Ask Mind Pump and you could have got like a really good like. Breakdown of episodes. And also clips.

Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of, I don't know. I hate the AI stuff. But I got it. I get it. I get it.

Good for you. You know, here's the other thing, too. It's just a, this is a trend. I don't know if this is true or not. But in my experience, when you have a couple that are both somewhat into fitness, and one of them is really overtraining a lot, the other one tends to be the same. And so you get this kind of, this is a heavy bias. Yeah.

And so they start to feed into it, you know, like they're both just overdoing it all the time. And so I don't know if this is the case with both of them, but that might be. Yeah, it could very well be. I mean, they run together a lot. I think that's their main thing is runners. And I'm like, you know, if you're outside and you're running together, like, I'm not raining on your parade at all. But if you want to get strong, like, you actually want that, you have to rest. And you got to eat too.

You are correct. She probably isn't eating. Well, at least she's big on protein. So I was like, well. I could guess. She under eats and over-crant. Well, she said she intermittent fast already, too. She's a faster, a runner, and a circuit trainer.

Those flags. I already can picture her. I know exactly what she looks and trains like. Well, tell her if she ever gets to a point where she gets frustrated or hurt or burnt out, have her right in and we'll help her out on air, just like we do with you. You guys similar, are you similar in age or is she a little bit older? How much older are she? No, she's at 40s.

I'm 27. She's 39. Oh, 30. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Sooner later, her body will let her know. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, she's good now, you know, and but yeah. And it's, I mean, that was kind of an example, too, right? because I'm not trying to call in for someone else. But it's also something that I have run into at my gym. But anyhow, so I appreciate your help, guys. It's common. Yeah, you got it.

You're on the right track. Stay the course. You know what you're doing. Use your intuition. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. You got it.

Yeah, when she threw in it was my boss. I mean, I get it. I would just a barrier to the squad. She's coming back in with her husband's support. But I mean, I'm surprised because. I'd like to talk to him. I think it went down exactly like what I just said. I think they were talking and she's trying to convince her,

hey, we got to rest if we want to build muscle. And she's like, no, I don't think so. And then she went back and told her husband, hey, my friend tells me, in order for me to build muscle, I have to rest for this long. And he's like, that's not true. I bet it went down just like that. Yeah, maybe.

And exactly. I mean, otherwise, like I'd love to have him on the podcast. I'll have that debate all day along with you. Yeah. But it doesn't make sense. A physical therapist would know better. They know this. No, a physical therapist.

He wouldn't be doing that with his patience. Well, they would, but they understand training modalities. They understand, like, he's correctional exercise. A guarantee he ain't doing circuits. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, he's not doing the... He's trying to get people stronger, too. He's a runner.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. How many physical therapist runners do you know? Yeah, I knew a few, but I'm saying knowledge-wise, maybe he doesn't apply it, but, you know, I'm wondering, because that's what... That'd be weird coming from a PT to say that. Yeah. Our next caller is Jenna from Wisconsin.

Hey, Jenna. What's happening? Hey, guys. How's it going? Good. How can we help you? Good. Thanks for taking my question.

I've been listening for probably seven to eight years now. And you guys have really added a lot of value to my life. So I really appreciate you guys. Thank you. So much. Thank you. How can we help you? Okay.

So my question is, and I've condensed it just a little bit for time's sake, I've been dealing with a reoccurring right side hip slash so as issue. And I think it's a tightness that flares up after heavy lower body lifts like squats and deadlifts. Should I continue working through this using map symmetry? Or do I need to take a step back and modify my programming more aggressively before pushing lower body string? So a little bit of context. I'm 31, mom of 2, 5'10, 187 pounds. And I've been lifting for probably about 10 years now. I recently started symmetry and noticed on my right side, especially during like the single leg suspension squats. My form seems to break down a bit on that right side,

and I do feel some discomfort in my quad and hip area. I also recently had a trainer assess me, and she said nothing major stood out as far as like the different movement she had me go through. just a little bit of tightness in my posterior chain, and I've been given a lot of corrective exercises, but I do feel a little bit overwhelmed and would like a simpler approach if possible. My overall goal is I want to keep building strength, but I don't want to reinforce this imbalance and tightness.

I feel like it's kind of been limiting me for a while. Yeah. You know what's interesting about this, Jenna. So so as tightness. usually looks like we got to work on strengthening the core we got to work on hip strength

and stability but in people who strength train a lot work out a lot it sounds like you know you've been doing this for a while you know what you're doing sometimes it's actually weak hip flexors

I know that sounds crazy because we're told it's tight but I've encountered this I've seen other people encounter us and for trainers is this is like a mystery sometimes, because that's almost never the case with the average person.

But with someone like you, that might actually be the case. And so hip flexor strengthening exercises may actually be what you need to do. Okay. Yeah. And like the trainer that I did meet with recently, she did give me some movements to do that would help with strengthening the hip flexors

because she kind of had an inkling that that could be part of it because she said it didn't seem. like it was super glaring. Like, but I do tend to notice a little bit of tightness, but it definitely like flares up after those like heavier lift days. It's usually the next day that I notice it. What's the hip flexer,

like strengthening exercises that she's given you? So like she had like the one where you like sit on the floor and you have the kettle of you and kind of lift your leg over and up kind of on each side. She gave me Like clamshells with a band And I don't know if that seems more like Adductors Yeah

But she gave me a different Like hip like shifting movements Like squeezing a foam roller Between my legs a little bit More like a primer Type of thing But I feel like a little bit overwhelmed with how many different exercises and things that I have in my tool.

I don't really know what's going to move the needle. What do you call your suspended plank one with one leg? What do you call that, Justin? You know what I'm talking about? Oh, the suspended plank with the suspension trainer? No, I think you're going to do it on the bench right here. Oh, yeah. I don't know what you call that, but I lay on a bench and actually grab the bench behind me

and I have my foot with a kettlebell and I'm pulling my leg in towards my chest. So when you do the one where you're sitting on the floor and you bring your leg over the kettlebell back and forth, do you notice any relief? I guess I didn't really notice anything. I feel like some of the movements that I've been doing have been making a little bit of a difference because I feel like it's more isolated where I don't notice it as much unless I do lift heavy. Whereas for a while it was kind of just like in the background, like always kind of. of there. I feel like it's a little bit better now that I've been incorporating some of these movements. I don't notice it as frequently. So I think maybe I'm moving in the right direction, but it'd be nice to just kind of narrow down. I got a movement for you. So do you know how to do a Roman chair

sit up on a bench? Do you know what that is? Mm-mm. I know. So sit on a bench so that it's this way, right? So you're sitting in the middle of it, right? So you're sitting in the middle of it facing this way. Anchor one foot in a dumbbell, the one with the hip flexor that feels weak. Lift the other leg up and lean back like you're going to do a set up and come up. This is a hip flexor exercise. Okay. And it's a strengthening one. So going over the kettlebell back and forth is good, but it's very minimal on its strengthening.

The one that I just said, you could try some of that. And I would do that a couple days a week. And I would back off on the weight and intensity and everything else and see if you notice an improvement. Symmetry is a great program to follow. I think you stay in the first three phases of that and repeat it. Yeah. And just stick with that unilateral protocol for a while. And you're going to see some of that just naturally strengthen and eliminate some of the discrepancy.

And what it looks like is literally two days a week, you would do like three or four sets of what I said. So you're sitting on the bench, hands behind your head. One knee is bent, foot under a dumbbell. The other one is up. And then you lean back like you can do a sit up and then come back up. Maybe Doug can find a video so we can send it to her. I don't know if we have one. We should do a series on this because we've answered a couple like this.

The reason why I like Sal's movement so much The trainer, at least she was heading down She's pointing the right direction Yeah, she's pointing the right direction So I don't want this come off like I'm criticizing But in that position when you're sitting like that It's shortened already Sal's going to take you through a full range of motion

Yeah And so you're going to get a full stretch And contraction on it's strong So you can do it because it's a hard movement You don't need any weight And you're just going to real slow come back And the foot that's anchored That's the hip flexor you're working

The other leg you're taking off so it's not Because, you know, if I put anchor both feet, I could turn it into an ab exercise. That's not what I want. I want that one foot anchored, lean back until you feel the tension, sit back up, and do that like a few sets twice a week. Back off on the intensity. Stick to map symmetry, first three phases and see how that feels. What would you call single leg soage crunch?

I guess. Yeah, maybe single leg soaz crunch. I'll look for something for you. I mean, I have links, but yeah, they're tutorials online. Yeah. But you understand what I'm saying. Can you picture what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah, I can, yeah, definitely. Why don't we have you on in a couple months so we can see how it worked for you? Okay, yeah, definitely. So just that couple days a week, just kind of add it in like at the beginning of my workout or something. No, do it at the end and yet twice a week and go lower intensity on the movements that tend to bother you for the first few phases of symmetry. Don't go in the five by five. So stay in the unilateral. And then we'll see.

You should notice some improvements. If I'm right, then you should see some improvements. I mean, we'll talk to her before the five by five. That's right. So we're, because the five by five is three months down the road. So we'll have you, we'll have you up on a couple months. Okay. Yeah, I'm actually in phase two.

I just started phase two. I think I just did the third workout in phase two recently. Good. When you get to the, when you get to the five by five cycle back through and then keep to start. Start back over to one. So don't go through, don't go through the third phase. Go back to phase one.

Yep. And then we'll be in touch with you then. Okay. Yeah, that sounds great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. All right, Jenna. All right.

We really need to make a little MPTV. You know what? I've been, I've been geeky out on this. It is, but it isn't. You know why? Because we have an audience bias of people that work out. You're right. You know, like it's not common in like the average person.

But the people that actually work out, like you said. Athletes and, yeah, like people that work out a lot. Because you need a balance of strength between all the muscles of the pelvis, the hip. This is, I get issues like this all the time. When I'm not addressing, like, mobility, stability, and strength stuff in my hips, and I'm pushing the weight that they start talking. It starts talking to me. And I start feeling it all over the place if I don't do that stuff. So it's like, so that's why I think it's it is more common in our audience.

Neglacted. Then also you're in a shortened position all day seated. Yeah. With their job. And so it's like, yeah, dude, I need to express that range of motion and strengthen it. Got to give credit to the trainer, though. The fact that she, because that's not a common thing that a trainer would think to go. No.

unless you have some pretty good experience with somebody to know that. So she was heading down the right track. But the movement you talked about. That's going to strengthen. There was another one I was talking about, Justin. You do like a plank where you're balanced. Yeah, that's really hard.

Yeah. Like what you would just said is like you got to really have good strength. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what you call, but that was what I was looking for that you do. You do it like a plane. I don't know the name for it. Yeah.

But what Sal said is a really good one because it's going to take her through full range of motion through it and she'll get a good stretch and contraction on. it so it's a little bit more superior to the you know lift your leg over the the kettlebell back and forth totally look if you like the show come find us on instagram it's mind pump media thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb superb bundle at mind pump media dot com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic

of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family.

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