Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2898: How to Do Pull Ups in 30 Days (The Exact Method That Actually Works)

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

In this episode the guys break down exactly how to be able to do pull ups in 30 days — covering the daily low intensity practice method, why you need to drop all other back work, why eating more and sleeping consistently will accelerate your results, and how to set up your test day for maximum performance. They also discuss whether chemical sunscreens are actually causing more cancer than they prevent, a large UK Biobank study showing frequent sunscreen users had up to 292% higher melanoma rates, why Crisp Power protein pretzels are outperforming traditional protein snacks on satiety, and the guys' Father's Day stories — Sal's son giving him a blank trophy, Adam's perfect day including coffee in bed and a drive with Katrina, and Justin getting a violent massage from a big Chinese dude at the mall. Then they answer questions from Instagram on doing CrossFit and strength training simultaneously, progressive overload after 63, building a chest with chronic shoulder pain, and getting hired as an inexperienced new personal trainer.   MAPS Upper Lower: https://mapsupperlower.com Code: LAUNCH for 40% off. Includes male and female programs, workout videos, exercise demos, coaching videos and live coaching with Cole.   SPONSORS   Paleo Valley (grass-fed fermented meat sticks): https://paleovalley.com/mindpump 15% off automatically applied at checkout, no code needed.   Crisp Power (protein pretzels): https://www.crisppower.com/mindpump Code: MINDPUMP for 10% off. Up to 28g protein per bag, zero added sugar.   Seed Daily Synbiotic: https://seed.com/mindpump Code: 25MINDPUMP for 25% off your first month.   LINKS   Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   0:00 - Intro 1:43 - How to do pull ups in 30 days — the exact method 4:53 - Step 1: Practice daily at low intensity — why this beats training them hard 13:33 - Step 2: Avoid all other back work for 30 days 15:30 - Step 3: Eat more — why a deficit kills this protocol 16:08 - Step 4: Sleep consistently every night 16:48 - Step 5: Set up your test day — take 4 to 5 days off first 25:17 - Chemical sunscreen study — 292% higher melanoma risk in frequent users 43:10 - Father's Day stories — trophies, cheese shops, massages and minivans 52:23 - Crisp Power on set — why Adam eats them almost every day 56:07 - Q&A: CrossFit 4 to 5 times a week plus a MAPS program — will it work? 1:01:53 - Q&A: Is there a limit to progressive overload training at 63? 1:04:33 - Q&A: How to build a chest when both shoulders have chronic pain 1:09:06 - Q&A: How to get hired as a new inexperienced personal trainer at Mind Pump  

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Enjoy the rest of the show. Being able to do a pull-up or pull-ups, it's a great accomplishment. but you struggle. You've been trying for a long time. You can't do it. We're going to give you the formula. Be able to do pull-ups in 30 days. Let's get to it.

Justin's been trying for 45 years. He's still can't do it. So close. He's the heavy cakes he's got. I can hold myself. It keeps it up. This was a, did you guys get this often with your clients? Yeah.

Especially female clients where they're like, I want to be able to do a pull-up. Yeah, it was a big goal. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a fun goal. It's a great exercise, but it's, you know, High resistance, right? You're lifting your body weight.

But being able to do it is it's fun. It's a great back exercise. Very functional. And a lot of people who want to do more pull-ups go about it the wrong way. I think that they believe if they just train their back more or add in more pull-downs and just increase the volume that that's going to do it. Not realizing that there is a way to get better at a skill, which is all exercises or skills. There's a much faster way to get good at that. It's actually interesting how little getting really strong in your back actually plays a role. Yes. You could get really strong on your back and see a minimal difference. Now, if you take somebody who's never lifted and you get a strong back,

let's say you test them the first day and they can't do a single pull-up or maybe they can do one, and then you'll get them a strong back. They can probably do a couple, but there's not a lot of carryover, not like you would think there would be. Well, again, people... It's more strength to weight ratio. It's like you'd probably do better just getting leaner. Well, so there's strength to weight ratio,

but also, this is a big one, is that people, you know, when they look at exercises, they look at exercises as it relates to body parts. So it's like, those are chest exercises. Those are shoulder exercises. Those are leg exercises.

And that's true. But exercises are skills. And so if, for example, if your goal was to throw a baseball twice as far as you currently can. And you wanted to get really good at throwing a baseball really far. There's two approaches you could take.

The approach that would be wrong would be, let me strengthen all the muscles involved in throwing a baseball. So I got my lats involved. There's some forearm flexors involved. I got the infraspinatus. And okay, I got to strengthen my hips a little bit. So I could go to the gym

and just work on those muscles. Or I could practice throwing a baseball. Which one is going to get accomplished? the goal faster, practicing, throwing the baseball because it's a skill. When we look at exercises, we just don't look at them that way. We just look at the muscles involved and think, well, let's just get those muscles stronger, which is part of it. But the other part of it is this is a skill.

So the number one with being able to do pull-ups, if you really want to be able to do pull-ups in 30 days. Cut your legs off. That'll do it. Is you practice them daily every day. You practice them. Now, this is different than training them. every single day. So the mistakes someone would make with this is they go and do, you know,

a pull-up workout every single day. That is a great way to get yourself to do less than you currently can do. Let's say you over-trained yourself. What you do is you go and you practice, and there's a variety of different ways to do this, but you practice them at a low to moderate intensity every day, you know, maybe a couple times a day without pushing the intensity. And what you'll find as strength gains in this specific movement increase dramatically and rapidly. Yeah, it's, I know the audience is probably tired of hearing the story that I think we've all shared because I think we all have a personal story related to this. And mine is so vivid because it's still, I don't think I ever have exceeded this,

this pull up feet for me. And it was so unintentional. It wasn't even like a big workout. I was into, I was working out in high school, but like, very minimal and not appropriately. I was doing a lot of things wrong, you know, nutritionally, program-wise, everything. But when I worked at the dairy,

which I worked at five, sometimes six, seven days a week, and I milk cows, there was the, where you came in to, where the stalls were, there were these bars that were just, these big, thick bars above me, that were just a little bit above. I just had to hop up a second

and just as tradition, I would walk in and I'd jump on it real quick and I'd swing up and I'd literally only do like three to five. Yeah. It was not like, it wasn't a workout. Yeah, I wasn't like doing it to work out. I like did it just like, I did it. Just to mess around. Mess around.

It was messing around. And I did it every day. Every day I would jump around, jump up there and do that. And, you know, that was, I worked there for years. And before I knew it, it was just like, it felt like nothing. It actually felt like, it was so easy for. me to pull my body weight up. I felt like I could just do as many as I wanted. And it was so wild to see that. And then years later, getting in the gym and lifting weights and trying to build

my back and build muscle, I was never that, I could never get that good. But I never had applied it to that level where I just every day dedicated doing a handful of them. And it's wild. What a difference that makes. The key to what you're saying is frequency of practice, in low intensity. Yeah, wasn't going, and never went to failure. No,

you could have probably repped out 15. Yeah. But you're doing three. Yeah. Just so that people get an idea of what that intensity looks like. I had a similar experience.

It wasn't with pull-ups. It was with bench press. I had this, I've told this story before. I had this trainer that worked for me that he could bench press four plates. Okay.

She was just really, really strong at the bench press. And I never really saw him work out. And it wasn't because he didn't work out. I just don't think I was there paying attention to the times. But what I did notice, was that in between his clients, he'd load up the bench.

So remember this guy who could bench press 400 pounds? He would load up like 275 or 315. He'd get under the, he would mess around, basically. He'd get into the bar, he'd do like a couple reps and rack it up. And I always thought, I actually didn't think anything of it. I thought he was just playing around. And one day, you know, I had a chance to hang out with him. And at this time, you know, I'm a young kid.

And then, you know, in the 90s, bench press was like the lift. That's how you talked about how strong you were. And I'm like, dude, how did you get it so strong at bench. He wasn't a huge guy. He was a big guy, but not big enough to where you could think you bench a 405. And he goes, oh, I don't even train it. I'm like, what? So you're just naturally strong at bench press?

He goes, no. He goes, all day throughout the day, he goes, I just go under the bench and I fool around and mess around throughout the day. Like, that's all you do? He said, yeah. Practice it. And then I read Soviet era studies on strength training and how they train some of their athletes. And they had similar approaches to getting their athletes to increase their strength, any specific lift.

dramatically. Yeah. And so this is what it looks like for someone listening, right? So let's say you can't do any pull-ups, because maybe you can't do any at all. And you're like, I want to be able to do at least one or two. You'd set up a pull-up bar in a doorway, someone in your house, set it up with assistance, with a band. So you could hook your knee or your leg underneath it.

And you would, you know, two or three times a day, you'd go up there and do like one or two easy pull-ups. And you would just practice them every single day. It's just pattern recognition. Yes. At the end of the day, it's just like learning language. like you're going to get more knowledgeable about the sequencing of that. And your buyer is going to respond so much better,

the more that you expose it to it. So it's, it really is that. And it's like, you know, maybe we, you know, we add a little bit more stress to that. And, you know, there's certain techniques you can do. Like, if you can't do a pull up right away, you know, you might want to just hold. You might want to have isometric.

You might want to work on the eccentric part. But it's really the exposure of like going through that entire range of motion. maybe assisted, but the more frequently you can do that with, you know, less stress and more skill, the better. So years ago, I had a female client that I did exactly that. So she came to me. I really wanted to, we had been training her for a while. So she's already been working out.

She's like, I really want to do pull-ups. So I said, and I did all the stuff we're going to talk about on top of this. But one thing that I said was, it said set up a pull-up bar and you can't do a pull-ups. So what I want you to do is get a step so you can get up to the pull-up so that you're already, it's like you already finished a pull-up. then bend your knees and slowly lower yourself and that's it. And you do that one time and do that like three times a day. And it wasn't very long at all.

She was able to do more than one. She was able to do like two or three full pull-ups. I mean, we all have these crazy stories. When I was Hillsdale, so I'm 25, I had this guy, Raphael from New York, who was in his mid-40s at the time. And of course, this is my 20-something-year-old brain defaulted to, oh, he takes it. some kinds of steroids. That's why he looks like this. Probably really good with size.

Yeah. He never worked out. He never had a half hour, hour block of training. Never one. And he worked for me for years. And he was absolutely jacked and claimed he was natural. And I didn't believe it, especially because the way I saw he worked out. And the way he worked out was, we all know,

Sal tells the story of how he used to stuff food down between the five to ten clients, five, ten minutes, right? Everyone has about five to ten minutes between clients. What he did was walk over to the dumbbell rack and did two sets of curls or walk over the bench press and just do two sets of bench press. Between clients.

All day long. All day long. And I actually interpreted it too as like one, I thought he was on steroids or two, this guy's so insecure. He has to keep lifting. He has to keep lifting to keep a pump all the time and that's his thing.

But he's like, that's how I work out. I just, I don't ever do a full hour workout. I don't have time to do that. And it's easier for me just to do this. And I just didn't believe them. I didn't believe them whatsoever. And I'm so inspired by that way of training that, you know, part of the motivation, I've talked off air, I think to you guys, I don't know if I've publicly talked about

this, but, you know, I'm working on building an outdoor gym at my house. And I'm outside a lot, especially with Max and the pool and stuff like that. And I'm just going to make it a goal. I'm going to log it too. So I'm not going to just willy-nilly do it. I'm going to try and kind of track it to get. an idea of what I'm doing and just kind of keep a little notebook there and just like, oh, did two sets of this, do this and just kind of see where everything lands.

But I'm inspired to not do any traditional kind of lifting and just make an effort. Every time I walk outside or I go for a swim or I lay out or I go in my sauna, all those things are outside or I'm barbecuing out there. Just going to walk over to the dumbbell or the pull up or the squat right and just do a set or two and then walk away and just see if I can tally up what would be a general workout in a day or two and just see what happens. The Soviets wrote a lot about that style of training for buildings. And I know it's not realistic for the average listener, right?

Like not everybody has that luxury. So I get why we've all kind of as a society conform to this one hour blocks three days a week or whatever like that. but, you know, from everything that I've seen, what I've experienced personally, from the stories you guys just share, it almost seems like this would be ideal if you had that, if you had that luxury.

I think so. And again, for someone listening who wants to do this with pull-ups, this is actually, this is easy with pull-ups, because pull-up bars are really inexpensive. Right, put them in a doorway in your house. And you just,

you just practice this, like literally two or three times a day and just, and it has to feel like practice. Don't make it a workout, which takes us to the second point here, which is avoid any other back work. So this will not work if you also once or twice a week

have a long intense back workout. Yeah, you're fatigured. You've got to avoid all other back work for 30 days and all your back work is going to be this, you know, daily two or three times a day. I go up and I hop up and I practice. Which, by the way, don't, because that might, you know, discourage somebody because they're like,

oh my God, I don't want to lose my bed. Like, you will develop a pull-ups are such a great exercise for developing the back. and so if you if you go from not being good at pull-ups to being great at pull-ups in 30 days but you miss you skip deadlifting for a while or you skip doing rows for a while trust me you're going to have a good back i mean this is how you get good at any lift you have to kind of trade it out like and focus on that and get rid of the junk volume and that's kind of like you know it's the recipe if you really this is a goal of yours to get better at it you know you just have to you know

get rid of some of the other exercises that are kind of deterring you from just all your on this. That's right. Well, you just recently learned that lesson again, right? Going through your whole journey with the push press and you were trying to compliment it with all these auxiliary things. And you're saying, like logically, you think it makes sense to kind of build up from, you know, the whole. Like so I'm on, I need to like get all these other ranges of motion to kind of, you know, make sure like the joint stable and this and that and the other. But really it was taking away from, you know, the bucket of what I could really output.

And so if like, you know, if you just emphasize that more and you just focus completely on that, you're going to get really good fast. No, real good. That's, and again, this is 30 days. So if you're like, okay, I'll give this a shot, just give it a shot for 30 days. Watch what happens. Now the next thing is you're trying to get stronger. Don't do this in a deficit. So, and I don't mean you need to be in a crazy bulk, but feed your body because we're trying to get you stronger.

There is, of course, there can be an argument for losing weight to be able to do a pull up. Totally get that. So for some people who have a lot of weight to lose. It might be better to strategize to lose some weight to be able to do a pull-up. But for most people, don't do, don't under-eat to try to get stronger. It's typically a terrible. No, I mean, if you want a crazy recipe for getting badass of the pull-ups is you follow what you're saying in a surplus for 30 days. And then you go on a 30-day cut and keep going.

And then watch what happens. Yeah. Drop an extra of 5, 10 pounds or 15 pounds and keep doing the pull-up thing. And all of a sudden, you'll see your pull-ups go double, triple what you were doing after you did the 30 days of bull. Okay. That's right. Here's the other thing. You're doing this for 30 days.

For 30 days, also get really good sleep. So prioritize your sleep. Nothing kills strength gains like poor sleep. Nothing increases risk of injury like poor sleep. Nothing will hammer your hormones as terribly as poor sleep. So you're doing a 30-day challenge. So for the next 30 days, just sign up for, I'm going to bed at the same time every night and I'm waking up at the same time every morning.

And you add this to what we said and watch what happens. And then lastly, set up your test day. So you're going to have a day where you're like, okay, this is the day, 30 days from now or 40 days from now. This is the day I'm going to see if I can hit a new PR and pull-ups or if I could do a pull-up. Here's what you're going to do to set yourself up. Take four to five days off before that. You want to give yourself enough time to be totally fresh. Set yourself up.

Film yourself. Send it to us. I'd love to see people be able to do pull-ups. Now, would you not recommend during this 30 days once a week having a day? where you kind of rep out? No. Still no. No.

Just literally, this is a third. So if it was a longer, if we're doing this for 90 days, if we're doing this for, then yes. But when you're doing it for a short period of time, you want low-level frequent stimulus daily. And that's it. And you will shock yourself at how strong you are when you finally go test yourself. It's pretty well. So again, the Soviets did this with certain lifts. Like they would do this with squats.

They would take a lift. Like, let's say you had an athlete who, you know, could do 500 pounds for five reps in a barbell squat. They would go 315 and they would do five reps every day. That's it. And they were, no matter what, it was always the same. 315, 5. And it would feel easy.

315. And what would end up happening over 30 days, it kind of felt easier and easier and easier and easier. Yeah. Then they would give them some time off, test it. And then they'd hit 10 reps with 500 pounds. It's like your new floor. Yes.

It's like the new baseline. So let's imagine I'm somebody who can only get about five points. pull-ups in right now. Yep. And I'm going to do this for the next 30 days, and I'm going to practice this throughout the day. So I go and invest in, I don't even think those pull-up bars are very expensive, 20, 40 bucks at most for those ones that go in your door frame, which I would put it in my bedroom doorframe that I walk in and out of the most, out of anything.

And I'm guessing I would only do two pull-ups. One or two. Yeah, one or two pull-ups five times plus a day. Yeah. If you're doing it that much, I'd do one. If it's five times, you're just doing one. You're hopping up, one pull up, come in. No way.

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. If I can do five, you're saying do singles. Five is failure. That would be three reps short of failure to do two. Yeah, three reps short of failure. If you're going to practice it that often, it's got to be much lower.

I mean, I've tested this so many times. It has to be like you're playing. Like one. You go and down. If you're doing it five times in a day, Yeah, it's literally just one. If you're doing it twice in a day, maybe. But if you're going to practice that often,

it literally needs to feel like you're just... Because I feel like you need to do at least the amount of volume that you could already do, right? So it makes sense that you wouldn't go less than five total. I'm glad you asked this. It's remarkably less intense than you think to practice something like this. It's way less.

In fact, that's where everybody messes up, is they push it a little bit, a little bit, and then they don't see the progress. Because I feel like if I was going to do single, So we're just going to stick with this number five. That's like five is your max. Yeah, five is my max. If I was going to do singles,

and I'd want to try and do it like eight times or more a day, that way I'm still getting more total volume than what I could do in a single set, almost it, but not at a high intensity. I mean, you could practice it that way. I think five is a lot for every single day for 30 days. But, you know, experiment with it. But I'm going to say this, I'm going to hammer this home.

I mean, I guess way less than you think. I guess, to your point, what I wouldn't want to see. So let's say I do go about it. Because I'm pretty confident that if I could do five in a row and I do singles for five times in a day, I'm never going to feel like I can't get that one. That'll all feel easy.

Every time. It'll feel easy every time. But I could see if I did that eight times, maybe by eight times seven or eight, like it's kind of hard. Maybe a little tired. Well, let me ask you this. When you were doing this as a kid.

Yeah. When you were practicing. How many pull-ups do you think you could do max at that time? Before you got good. Oh, I mean, it gets your good point. I could probably do 15 and I was doing like three. That's right. Yeah.

It's literally, it needs to feel like easy. Yeah. And you're doing it so frequently. With a ton of space in between. Yes. Yeah, a lot of time in between. Yes. That's how this works.

If it starts to feel like I'm getting a little bit of a workout, you're probably going too hard. Yeah. Which is really hard to do. It was me like just doing two or three and it was throughout like every hour for the five hour or the five hour or six hour shift I would do. Yep. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that's fair.

No, it's wild. We talked about eating more, which made me think about this. So a lot of times people increase their protein intake through protein powder, which is totally fine, very convenient, easy. But, you know, I think a good strategy for some people, a better strategy might be just to eat like three or four of the Pelevole Valley meat sticks throughout the day. Like it's meat, it's minimally processed. Yeah.

It's got more nutrients. It's got long shelf life So it's just this it's actually more convenient You have to put it in a shaker cup Take them with you Eat one in between your meals You know three of those is going to give you What is that?

Going to give you 28 grams 26 grams of protein? Yeah bumping your protein Totally no does that You said it has more nutrients Is that more natural nutrients And not fortify because supplements Are fortified with a lot of nutrients

It's meat It's grass fed meat Yeah you know And so you're gonna get Yeah dude So you're just And it's, again, it's closer to whole natural. And comparing that is what we're comparing when we compare to something that is fortified in nutrients and heavily processed versus something that's minimally processed and more natural nutrients.

Is it just a bioavailability? Usually. Is that? Usually. And no, there's companies out there, really good protein powder companies that will put like good nutrients in there. But sometimes they put nutrients that don't have good bioavailability, like versions of certain nutrients just to show on the label. and some protein powders don't add any because people aren't looking for

you know vitamins and minerals and take a protein powder like I don't care if I take a protein I just want the protein yeah so with the meat stick with the paleovala meat stick it's I mean it comes along with it yeah it's just closer to a whole food and I you know it's super close

I still I still believe you know I know you've experimented with this yeah I still believe we're so arrogant with our science sometimes you know that we know everything yeah you know and there's studies to show if you do this, that these, a lot of things are very, very similar in comparison.

We just make this leap of it's exactly the same. It's like, I just don't believe that. I don't believe that if all things are controlled, carbohydrates, fats, calories, and you take one of them in a processed protein bar versus something that you measured out to be just the right amount of rice, you know, vegetables and chicken.

And it's the same. it's not the something else is not the same you know it's crazy about what you're saying we lie to ourselves with our arrogance put protein powder on the table and put some food on the table are they the same no obviously they're not the same thing yeah but they have the same stuff and them that's not the same though i know it's wild and and we and we do these studies where we measure like certain important markers protein synthesis and like total calories and what like thermogenesis like there's some things that we and then we we and those things are really important important when it comes to fat loss or building muscle.

And so we just jump to this like, they're the same. And it's like they're not. No, we negate the experience also. Like, do they feel like they're the same? That means not going to use it the same way. And then also behaviorably, which we always talk like that. That's clear to me. Like, I mean, because you can argue the science part that I can't beat you on to figure

out because I don't know what else is going on in the gut that I can't prove that we, that so many, we again, also act like we know everything about, which we know very little about it. I mean, the gut, the ocean, and the universe are like three of the most complex, the brain, right? The four most complex things that we act as if we know everything about, yet we've really explored like a fraction. And other discoveries every day. We just discovered this new thing.

Yeah. But we know, we know everything about it. It's like, man, it's clear that they, they affect you differently. And I know for sure they affect you differently behaviorally because, you know, I eat a, I eat a protein bar and 15 minutes later, I want another one or I'm craving something where I eat an egg, a whole boiled egg or something like that. It's a different experience. It is. And I mean, even the fermenting process that they used to make this is more friendly for

the gut for me. So I'm sure, yeah, that plays a factor. It is. I want to ask you guys, because we hadn't seen each other for a while because we're on vacation and stuff. I want to ask you guys about your father's day. Because we didn't see each other after Father's Day, did we? No.

No, we did that. And then we all went on vacation. Oh, mine was all weird because it like, it was before. So I did like the weekend before. Yeah, because we were all split up, you know, the next weekend. I got to tell you guys about one of the presents that my five-year-old gave me, you know, Aurelius. Yeah.

So Jessica took them the store, the kids, and had them pick whatever they wanted to get me, which I think is so fun. Yeah, yeah. You know, my son got me. What? A trophy. What? It was a plastic trophy.

Did you say something? Or would he say it was four? You're supposed to write on it, you know? What do you say it was four? He just, he just, you just, like, you're the. best. You know, he gave me a trophy. I'm like, this is the coolest gift I think I've never gotten, dude. So I have like this blank, you know, trophy sitting on my desk that my son gave me for Father's Day. Isn't that so awesome? That he thought to give his dad a trophy?

Those are those things that you got to make sure you put away and you remember. Oh, yeah, dude. Keep that stuff, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's a, I actually don't know what we did for Father's Dan. Yeah, what did you get for Father's, do you get anything? I don't, I'm going to, my wife's going to roast me if I did and I didn't, I can't think of what, She doesn't thought out Jeff. I know. I was like, oh, shit, this is not going to go well right now. I mean, I know what my son did.

My son's school is really good. I mean, they always have him create something, and he created a drawing of, you know, what he wanted to be. If you ask my son, he wants to be, he wants to be a father. That's what he says. Oh, wow. And so he drew this picture of him as a father,

and then also running mind pump. He said that? Yeah. So my son wants to work at mind pump too. Yeah, yeah. I hope that stays, you know what I'm saying? I hope that continues on. I always tell Katrina, too, like, I tell you what, that's why I don't trip about the sports

thing, because I know that's like a soft spot for me is I want him to want to really be into that and it's just not as jam. But if he likes business as much or more than sports, like I'll be as excited or more excited. Probably more. I'm sure more excited. I think I would be more excited. So I'm just like, then there's still a lot of hope for that because I feel like he's,

He's interested and he's into all that stuff. So, but yeah, I don't know what day, because that was right before we left on vacation. And so I don't know what we did. I know Justin had to celebrate his father's day like a week early. Yeah, I did that. I went to Carmel.

We went hiking and stuff and then had to hit up the cheese shop. So I like, I ended up fine. You was talking about that place. Dude, it's like my jam. It's amazing. I wish there was more of them. Like location wise, there's nothing like that. Nothing like that place.

Yeah. I tell everybody. It's like European. In Europe, you find places. Yeah, it's totally European. Does European have stuff?

Like, I mean, I know in Italy. Well, like, yeah. So this, the place that Justin is talking about, has cheese from all over the world.

Wow. Every kind of cheese you can think of all over the world. And then they, and then they have all these wines. And then the guy on the counter pairs them. Yeah. Well, until he gets your palate for like what types of,

you know, hard, soft, you know, cheeses are like, you know, what, what kind of like whatever direction you get to try them all first

and so I brought the kids have never been there and so they were kind of tripping out because there was just so many options you know and you're like trying out and they're doing the truffle this with it's like they do combos of some of them

and so anyway yeah we were in there a really long time do you like like blue cheeses strong blue cheese yeah yeah love them yeah not a little people do yeah because it's you know some people are like associate the whole mold thing

and all that. It's a strong. You know, you're kind of like, yikes. I haven't found a stinky cheese that I didn't like. I like the really strong

cheeses. It has to go with something for me. I don't... Oh, you got to put it on a cracker. Yeah, so you got to put it with something. There's a cheese.

I want to say it's an Italian cheese. The maggot one? Yep. It's got, they leave the maggots in there. Yeah, yeah. And like they flick them off before they give you the cheese.

It's not mimillette, is it? I don't know. That's one cheese I wouldn't try. I've seen that. I've seen that. That's one of my favorites. But that place that Justin's talking about, did you guys stay at a hotel too or no?

You just go there. No, it was just a day thing. Yeah, then we went to, yeah. Oh, I know what we did. That's what we did. We did a drive. That's what we did. Katrina and I did a drive and did our spotlight.

That's kind of our thing where we'll go take off for the day and do a nice, do a nice. It's a sardinian cheese. Kasu Marzu. Okay. Yeah, sheep milk cheese for being infested with live maggots, which ferment the cheese, giving you very soft greenie. It's yummy. Pungent smellish. It's probably delicious. It's funny, though, it's like you've got to be the first one to try it.

There's like, like, like, maggots on there. You're like, oh, yeah, this is delicious. I don't think you eat the maggots. I think they get the maggots off before they give it to you, right? I would think so. They look really tiny, though, like you could easily miss some of them. It's like, and it blends in with a cheese pretty good. I'm like, look at that.

Look at how they look. Tell me you would not miss some of those. I wouldn't even trust someone and be like, oh, yeah, we clean them all off. Oh, sure you did, buddy. Sure, they're high in protein. Yeah, Doug, Doug, what did you do? Did you do anything for that? Well, you see, Father's Day was almost as same day as my birthday this year.

Oh. So they got combined. So I ended up having dinner with Brianna and she was going to pay for dinner, but I chose an expensive Japanese restaurant. So I ended up paying for it. Do you have saved? I'm sure you do. You're such a sentimental guy. I bet you have a bunch of Father's Day cards and stuff you've saved.

Yeah, I save all that stuff. I am very sentimental, actually. Yeah. That's so great. Do you plan to do anything with it or do you just keep it? I keep that. I mean, I have a lot of video and stuff like that. That's just the things I do more with photos and video. But the cards, you know, just every once in a while you run into them, you pull something out and it's, oh, I remember that.

Yeah, Katrina saves all hers. Yeah, I'm kind of a pack rat that way, which is not very positive because generally speaking, you may look at it once every 10 years. But when you do see it, it does something for you. It does. You bring it up, especially when your kids grow up. I think the key is to make something out of it that's like a book or something like that. Because what happens is it ends up turning into because Katrina does this. And she keeps all of it. And that drives me crazy. And I'm just like, you know, it be a good gift for her at some point.

What? It would be for you to organize it. Like maybe like when Matt's. Oh, yeah. No. No, you're right. No. That's sure. Her, when I told you guys when the first five years we were together, I made books of our first five years. So that was me who did the photos. And then I put. together. So we have a chronological order of these photo books of our first five years together, haven't done it since then. But I'm sure she would love that with you know what Jessica organized for us because we're up at Yellowstone. Yeah. And we went up there with her mom and her brother and her sister-in-law and the kids and all that. She organized a day with a photographer. So we drove not to Yellowstone, but kind of like almost like off the grid a little bit because

there was a spot and this photographer met us out and I can't wait to see how the photos turned out because it was like the background was incredible with the mountains. We were like in this meadow. Yeah. Yeah and we were just at like dusk. So I got to tell you this, you know what I got to tell you guys? So I rented a, I had

because we had so many people when I had to rent a minivan and I get to drove a, mini vans are pretty amazing. You try to sell some millions. You try to sell some. Listen, the amount of people and the cargo and then I went off road with that thing because she took us off road and it had to rain the day before and I was a little bit like, are we going to make it? Let me tell you, bro.

I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I was going off. I just rewatch, I just rewatched the, uh, trying to sell me on minivan. You guys remember John Travolta and get Shorty? I just, oh, that's a great movie. Great movie. I just, I never watched that. What? No, I never, oh, what a great film.

I just rewatched it the other day. And there's a scene where he's, you know, he's, he's like a debt collector, right? Whatever, like muscle guy or whatever. And he's, he's getting off his plane to get his rented car that he had ordered. And he, I think he ordered, like, he ordered like, a nice Cadillac or what that and he pulls up and it's like a minivan and it looks at the lady's like

what is this? She's like it's the Cadillac of minivans and so there's like a whole scene of him like driving around the minivan and then he sees Danny DeVito and Danny DeVito's like hey is that that new minivati's like yeah it's the Cadillac of me he's up

can I take it for a spin? You know what you remember that one commercial they even tried to have like a puma in the back of it like this is the manliest manlyest man you've never seen I love those old things. Okay, so since you brought up Father's Day and stuff like that,

and do you have in mind what a perfect Father's Day looks like for you? Like what, like, is there, like, did you want something in particular? You're so easy, I bet you have nothing to say. Yeah. But I bet. Thanks. I bet. I'm sure you're very specific.

I'm sure you do. I feel like Justin and I will be. Doug might be too. I'm curious. Like, what a, like, a. like a good father's day kind of looks like? What does that look like for you? Do you know, do you have an idea?

For me? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I just want to feel. I just want to be around my kids, dude. My kids and my wife and I want to feel. There's not a thing that you want to do specifically with them. There's not like a. I just want to feel loved by them.

I want to feel, I want them to hug me. I want to be around them. I want to have dinner with them. It would be awesome if everybody said something they liked, you know, about their dad or told some story. That would be crazy. Yeah. But just I want to be around.

I just want to be around like. Did you see the viral memes of the like the, the, the Mother's Day versus the Father's Day? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Mother's Day, it's like, you're like, Margaritas, Girls Day. It's like a party, some of that. The dad's barbecueing on Father's Day. He's doing all the stuff anyways. Yeah.

Yeah, what about you, Judge? Do you have, like, do you think, like, that's a perfect father's day? Yeah, I'm like, I love going on, like, nature hikes and stuff with the kids and, like, getting away from the house and tech and. I don't know. I like it. I like when everybody's like on the same page and we're all doing one thing together. And it's like something active.

But, um, and then obviously like the, for me, the perfect scenario would be for me to like, you know, do that. And then I, like go and get a massage or something like just,

you know, relax and chill and then. Oh, you are a massage guy for that. I'm totally a massage. I know you did that for your, yours. And I actually,

I, I heard about it. And I was like, I wonder if that was like, Justin's idea. You let them touch your feet or you, no, no, feet guy. I would have, I actually totally called that that was not your thing. That's hilarious.

Yeah, no, I like it. I was so wrong. I, uh, it's, that's the thing. Like, it's, dude, I, I'm so wound up all the time. Like, that's like a one, I kind of do it more like on plan. If it's like a vacation or something, like, I want to at least get one day like that where I'm just like, you know, you work all the knots out and then I can just like decompress.

Yeah. But it's really like decompressing. So I'm in a better mood. come back, hang out. Because I'm like, I'm really tense all the time and like always like trying to, you know, do stuff. So I don't know. I totally did. I did not call that at all because I knew you did that.

And I was totally talking about you on that day. And I was just like, I wonder if that was Justin's idea or that was just Courtney thought I would love a massage. So I'm going to get him a massage. I'm not a massage. I'm not a massage. That would be cool. No, and I always have bad experiences. You guys got my text yesterday.

Oh, yeah. Violent massage I had? Yeah, you definitely don't know how to pick a good massage. So here's a deal. So here's a deal. Get the mall massage. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So my, you go to a mall massage. No, I've had, I've had, quote, unquote,

I've had good massages also. I'm just not a, it doesn't do a lot for me. You know, it's not a huge thing. And that's okay. You know, you know what I say to that?

I say that you're a person who says, I feel good. I know, I already feel great. I don't know what great feels like. And until you feel great,

you don't realize what you were missing. Because there is, there's, there is absolutely levels to massage. And I have had the whole gamut and spectrum, okay, being married to one.

So I know what it's, I've, I've had hundreds of massages and everything in between. And there is a very clear difference between horrible, okay, good, and holy shit life change. So I've had lots of massages and I've had some that were horrible.

I've had some that were good. I just fall asleep. That's all it happens to me. I just fall asleep with the good ones. So I'm like, I can do that by myself. I mean, that's pretty good. If a massage puts you to sleep and you feel relaxed and open.

I know the benefit of correctional massage. I think it's super valuable. But yesterday, Jessica and I had some time without the kids that were at my parents' house. And she goes to this place in the mall. It's one of those like Chinese massage places, you know, where they... Like 20 bucks. Yeah, like 20 bucks, whatever.

Which is just so funny how they figured out around the laws and they're able to do that. And anyway... And they know her by name. She goes there every single week. It's like her thing. She loves it. She goes there, gets a massage. reads her Bible, does her whole thing.

So I'm like, let's go, let's go do that. So when she gets excited, because she loves it. So I go over there, and I don't like foot massages because I'm way too ticklish. Like, you touch my fee, I'll kick you. Well, I have a scar on the bottom of mind. Oh, that's right. Yeah, it doesn't feel right. No, I don't like that.

So I'm like, I'll lay on my stomach. You can work on my back. That's totally fine. And I get this dude who big Chinese dude, like big, big old potato head guy, like, big dude. He's like, I'll work on you. Barely speaks English. I'm like, cool. It was the most violent massage I've ever had my life.

No, no, no, it was violent. He's like, head budding your dog. No, no, listen, listen. He was, it's not just that, Doug. He wasn't just, like, working on me. There were times, and he's, like, working on my hands. I'm laying flat, and he's like, what, like, punch my hands a couple times? And I'm like, my face is down and I'm laughing.

So I'm like, what is he doing? Why is he punching my hands? Or he'd hit my back, you know? But, like, I'm like, is he trying to, like, fight me? Like, what's going on here? It's, like, overcompensating to not make it less. It was just too, it was violent. After we were done, I looked at my wife.

I'm like, dude, I was laughing halfway through that. It was too much. Well, you, Doug. Me, uh, disquality time with Brianna mainly. And the massage sounds great, though. Next year, I'm going to request that. Yeah, that totally shocked me with Justin. Yeah.

Totally shocked me. I didn't, I would not have guessed you as like, I'm going to guess you. I'm not like a freebie of flyer, but I love it. I'm going to guess you want presents at him. No, I actually, no. I actually don't. I'm a terrible gift receiver.

You should know that. You know that. Not if it's expensive. No, even my wife fails at that. If you got your really expensive present? She hates that. You know, the last really expensive present I have is, I've never used to sit in my closet. I've got to return it.

I haven't returned it. Like, I just, yeah, I'm really difficult to purchase for it. And I'm a terrible gift receiver. So I actually don't like receiving gifts. Father's Day for me is like the perfect day looks like breakfast and coffee. Like coffee met to me before I get out of my bed. Yeah, yeah. That's a big one. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that's when Katrina does that for me on the weekends a lot or for Father's Day for sure, like getting handed a cup of coffee before I even set up out of bed is like, ah, yeah, that's super, super nice. And then I spend some time with my son and he normally participates in making breakfast for me with Katrina, which is always cute. We get to do that for a little bit. That's fun. And then my house being cleaned for me for the day before I have to leave the house.

So I know it's... It sounds like Mother's Day. Spice. Like it's spotless. And then I want to drive. And then I want to... And then with my wife, I like a go... A drive somewhere where we land at a place that we like to eat and go eat some fancy restaurant and have some drinks.

And then drive back. And then actually have the... So where I might be different, where I think a lot of dads want to spend the time with their kid, I spend a lot of time with my kid. So actually, that's a day where I'm like... I like to see him in the morning. And I like to do that with him in the morning. morning, but then I actually, like, this is, we normally have her mom take him or somebody,

and then that's me and Katrina. And so I actually like a night alone with her and day like that. And to come home to the house, spotless, had spent the time with my son, started it with coffee, a great drive to a great restaurant with good drinks and then come back to our house. Nice. That's like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't, the gifting's not like a. That's nice.

Yeah. I'm not a big gift guy either, but I like sentimental, like, you know, like the ones of my kids. I love to give gifts. Me too. So for Mother's Day, I love to surprise Katrina with gifts. And I do get, I love to buy gifts. But I'm not, I'm horrible at receiving them. Yeah.

So if one of us was to, like, show you love, what would we do? You guys could buy me a gift. Okay. Yeah, because you guys could afford the gifts that I was going to say. That's not I'm saying. You're like, this is coming out of my account. I don't like this. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, you know what I say? If it's your money. Yeah, my wife buys me a watch. I'm like, fuck. I bought that one. I would have bought a better one. Yeah, I would have bought a better one.

Yeah, I would have bought this model. You know what I'm saying? But, you know what I'm saying? Since it was my, but you guys could buy me that. All right. You would be like, damn, yeah. Yeah, I'd be pretty pumped. That's true.

Even if you missed a little bit. That's true. She buys you a gift. Like, I bought that. Yeah. How much that cost me? Yeah. It's a, it's such a bad.

I guess it's so awful to say that. but it's like there's a part of you that goes, of course. You know, oh my God, you spent that much money. And it's like, if I was going to spend that much money,

I probably would have done this thing where if it's coming from you guys, yeah, it's free gift. Yeah, and it's nice. It's like, okay,

that's cool. I like that. Yeah. So maybe. Did you guys, I'll change the subject. Do you guys see the big skin cancer observational study that people are talking about

on social media? Did you guys see this? No. All right. Uh-uh. So I'm going to pull it up because it's flying all over social media. It was actually, the study itself, it was an observational analysis from the UK Biobank Cohort.

So this was published in Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention. And it had over 440,000 people with controls. And they found, and so they found thousands of skin cancer cases. And they tried to make some associations. Here's what they found. Frequent sunscreen users showed higher observed rates. of skin cancers. Wow.

Compared to people who didn't use it very often. Even after they made adjustments for factors like age, sex, skin type, tanning ability,

sunburn history, sun lamp use and time spent outdoors. So actually, even though it's observational, they did make some corrections for certain things. And here's what they found.

The associations included up to 292% higher risk of invasive melanoma, a 140% higher risk of basal cell carcinoma and 126% higher rate of squamous cell carcinoma. And there was a dose response pattern, meaning more frequent sunscreen use was linked to higher skin cancer risks.

That's crazy. That does not look good. I'm assuming they're using like chemical base sunscreen. These are chemical based sensors. Right, right. So if we're using things that are non, that you're, The vast majority of sunscreen users use the more popular sunscreens that contain these kind of chemicals that will absorb and scatter UV rays.

And those have hormone-like effects in the body. And studies consistently show that the amount of those chemicals that they can find in your blood are far higher than what even FDA would say would be safe. Now, is there any correlation between when you use all natural stuff or nothing at all, you also have to manage your time that you're being exposed to the sun because you're, or is that being controlled in this situation? These are the factors they adjusted for again. Age, sex, skin type. So this was one that I would have thought out the gate.

It's like, okay, well, maybe people who are dark don't use a lot of sunscreen. They control for that. Tanning ability. So sunburn history, sun lamp use, and then time spent outdoors. So it's not a perfectly controlled, you know, placebo-controlled study, which I don't know how you'd be able to do that with long, long, long explain. It's really hard to do that. But so many people in there, over 400,000 people, and you had higher rates, and it was dose response connected. So the more sunscreen.

That's pretty concerning, yeah. Very concerning, dude. Man. Very concerning. Yeah. So, you know, these, I know sunburns aren't good for you. And the chemical-based sunscreens will reduce. Have you ever seen the brain?

But are those chemicals causing cancer? Yeah. I was like, you know, somebody that had a frequent, like, really bad sunburns or like to the point where it, like, had blisters and, like, with that, you know, over time, you know, how that affected the skin. But, I mean, it sounds like the chemical exposure, like, continuous. What did state by state look like? For sin cancer?

Yeah. You would expect skin cancer rates to be higher and sunnier states. Right, California and Florida. I bet you they're lower. That's why I want to see. I bet you they're lower. But I could be wrong. That's why I'm curious.

I'm curious. Which states in the U.S. have the highest skin cancer rates, Doug? That's what I would look at. I bet you there. And we need to know per capita, not by a person, because obviously, Florida and California is huge. It would be rate. It would be skin cancer rate.

which would be, okay, which would show. Interesting. That's why I told you guys. Utah, Utah, Iowa,

Minnesota, and Idaho. Look at that. Wow. Look at that. Utah, Vermont, Iowa, Minnesota,

and Idaho. The highest incidence rates. Wow. And now, they're higher elevations. Yeah, that could be part of it. They're outdoors a lot.

Could be part of it. But people in Florida, California, Hawaii, like, you guys are outside a lot too. Yeah. And the sun.

Also more fair-skinned residents in those states. Okay. There you go. I mean, true. I wonder if they control for that what we would see. Scroll down more, Doug, because there's a higher... That's fascinating to me.

Crazy. I guarantee you guys wouldn't have guessed any of those states. No. No. No, dude. Put those on the list. That is wild. That's crazy.

And it is per pack. So this is control for... Yeah. Yep. So here's a thing. Like, because we've treated the sun like it's like this really dangerous thing, which is crazy. Crazy. I think you definitely don't want to go and burn yourself,

but I think it's a good idea to get your body condition. Exposure, yeah, like small amounts. Small amounts, get your body conditioned to sun. You know, vitamin D, very good for you. Also anti-cancer, or should I say if you have low vitamin D, cancer rates go up. And then if you're going to use sunscreen, use the mineral ones. Yeah. Use the mineral ones.

You know, the altitude does play a factor. It should. It's so wild. I can tell. So I just came back, right, from Nevada. Look up countries with the highest skin cancer rates. And I'm up in the mountains in, like, Reno area, and meant laying out in, so I, and you guys know the summer I've been laying out a lot at our own pool, like a ton.

We've been out around the pool. And it is, I can feel a difference in less than an hour's time of laying out around the pool up in Reno. Oh, yeah. versus hours around my... It's intense. It is intense. Yep.

Yep. And the temperature doesn't even have to be hotter. So it's not like... Yeah, the difference of 80 degrees at my house versus 80 degrees over in Reno and an hour and hour of each in there, night and day difference. You know what's crazy? You can feel it. So you know what I would like to see, Doug?

Maybe we wouldn't have this data. So there's one country in the world that had a national effort. Like they funded this. nationally to get everybody to wear sunscreen. It was Australia. There was actually... Right there. Yes.

They have high rates of skin cancer. I want to know if did the, did Australia's sunscreen efforts reduce skin cancer rates? Or did it increase? Yeah. Because they actually, they actually had this whole national campaign. Yeah. For decades where they were trying to encourage people. And so I want to see.

And then the other thing is, did it reduce skin cancer but increase other cancers? Because sometimes what you see is a reduction in skin cancer, but then vitamin D. Yeah. The iconic slip, slip, slop, slap. That's what it was. SunSmart program. It reduced skin cancer rates in younger generations. So it did in that case.

I'd like to see if the other regular cancers went up, though. I'd also like to see how much. Yeah. Younger Australians born are estimated to be four times less likely to develop skin cancer compared to older core. Evidence shows that Australians age 18 to 40 who use sons. regularly in childhood, reduced their risk by developing melanoma by 40%. Okay.

I don't know, man. It's interesting to me. Here's a deal. I don't think sunscreen's bad. I think chemical sunscreens should be avoided. That's the position I would take. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think.

I mean, your skin's a major organ. Well, it's interesting because all the things you guys are reading right now, though, they're just blanket saying sunscreen. They're not like saying natural or like that. And it's reducing. So it almost seems like even chemical sunscreen is better than no sunscreen. when I looked at this, the study that I just read seems to point in the other direction, that it's, it's not good.

And like I said, we see, we see that there are, we know that there are, like, hormone-like effects from these chemicals. And they build up in the blood much higher than we think is. Well, I mean, it's been an interesting experiment for us and our family with the sastasanth, like, a supplement and it's it's like still get like a little bit of a burn but it doesn't last and it pretty much recovers like a lot faster than it would say you know without it so I don't know I'm I'm very curious to see if this is like the answer instead of sunscreen anymore interesting by the way it says there that the incidence of melanoma initially rose alongside sunscreen

adoption and then yeah you know I want to look a little deeper into that and to see what what what effects were, you know, because I've read, I've read other studies that have connected people avoiding the sun to higher rates of other types of cancers. Mm-hmm. Versus people actually seek out, going out into the sun. Yeah. So, I don't know. Interesting.

Anyway, I got to tell you guys, yesterday I was doing social media. I was, you know, you guys know, I was out there doing social media clips and stuff. Oh, you did that yesterday. One of the clips I was doing was with the Chris Power. Yeah. Which, by the way, our social media team has been just crushing. You know, it's funny. to see comments underneath people saying social media team is kicking butt.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, really cool. So anyway, I was doing it like this thing with Chris Power where Danny was having me say, you know, up to 28 grams of protein per bag. And then I had to do it with different emotions, excited, angry, sarcastic. I had to do like these different type of emotions. But in between, you know, I'd eat one of the crisp power. Those things are so addictive.

I know. I'm glad they have those bigger bags. I was like sitting like couch. I mean, they are, but I mean, I had one last yesterday. They're like, it's like you might as well eat potato chips. I had them on my drive. I mean, I have them almost every day, but I was, I had them last night on my drive home from here. And I'm actually so impressed by how satisfying a bag taste.

So when you're done because of the protein. Yes. I can't think of a, you remember, they come in those sides. You remember we just went up to Truckee and my, my friend's family's bought the Costco's variety pack of Cheetos, Doritos, all the, all the, you know. You ain't eaten one bag of that. You don't. No way.

You don't. Not even the kids. No way. I had to limit the kid. I see their kids eating them. I'm like, hey, that's already two bags. I just saw you eat back to bag. You better ask your mom and dad if you're okay.

Like, I mean, you could just crush those things. Totally. I have one little bag of those, Chris Power, and I am fine. I do not have the sensation of like, I need another one. But they are so delicious. No, they are. They are. and I enjoy it, but I don't think I've ever had a small bag of something like that and feel

satisfied after having it. And the know that I just took in a 28 gram protein snack is, yeah, it's cool. They hit the formula because they're crushing right now. I'm seeing them in all kinds of big retailers. And they're Costco. And now I knew it. When we first were introduced to them and I tried it, I was like, oh, they're going to, if you can make something that's high protein tastes really good, like not like it has high protein. There's a lot of high protein foods. You can taste that's got protein. If you can make something palatable, that's high protein, you're going to make a lot of money. Because people are just going to crush it. Well, especially a salty carb snack. It's traditionally a salty carbs snack. It doesn't taste

far off from the real thing. Because that's the other thing, too, is like you'll see some of these products and they'll be high protein. And then it's just like, that's what I mean. You could taste this protein. It's like, yeah, this is not good. They taste like pretzels with the, you know, nacho cheese on them or pretzels with flaming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they did a good job.

They absolutely crushed it. Look, if you've been listening to Mind Pump for any longer than like one episode, you know how important we take gut health. Gut health is very important. It controls your happiness. Anxiety can contribute to depression if it's off. Inflammation. Good gut health makes you recover faster, build more muscle and burn more. more body fat. Well, one of the best products we've ever found that helps contribute to good gut

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Try them out. Go to Seed.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code 25 mind pump. Get 25% off. Back to the show. First question is from Fit Mechanic King. I do CrossFit 4 to 5 times per week for fun and as a sport. I love the community and the competitions.

I want to build strength outside CrossFit classes. What program would you recommend? I'm considering Maps 15 strong or Maps 15 performance. Nothing. Nothing. On top of your Ford. Yeah, listen, if you're going to do CrossFit four to five times a week and you want to add something to it, don't.

Good recipe to get weaker. Yeah, you're not going to, there's nothing we could add that'll make you stronger. But there is something we could do that will make you stronger. do CrossFit twice a week, follow Maps 15 performance, Mass 15, Mass 15 power lift, and you will get stronger. Yeah.

But it ain't going to happen doing this much exercise, this much CrossFit. I just do mass performance and ditch CrossFit. I want to see this person's profile too because it's Fit Mechanic King. Is this guy also a full-time mechanic?

Yeah, I don't know. Well, he's the king, so he probably... It probably is. I tell you what. I mean, talk about it. I tell you what, if you're doing cross-s, fit because, and he said the right things. It's for fun, sport, love the community.

Awesome. Yeah. That's all should be. That's what everybody says, bro, but then deep down they want to build muscle or they want to look better. I was just going to say, but you also you also said you want to build strength. It ain't going to happen. You're doing all that. No. So you've got to pick. You have to pick which one you're going to do.

It's a terrible recipe, what you're already doing. It's not, that's not the recipe to get stronger and to get fitter and to look better. It's like if that, if you want that, then, and you it's still, listen, doing CrossFit two times a week is still fun. Still have some fun doing it. You know what the problem is?

Or join it because I do know this. CrossFit has evolved since Mind Pump has been shitting on it for 10 years. And it has turned into, there's a lot of good coaches that have modified it or allow people to do their own thing. Which, it's

not really CrossFit anymore. You know, now it's becoming more like personal training. Yeah, now it's more like functional. And so if you like showing up to the CrossFit gym with your community and you can say, hey, two times a week, I'm going to enjoy the class with everybody. And then the other three times a week I'm going to do Mass 15. You can totally do that.

Look, I'll say this right now. CrossFit programming has generally, and a lot of gyms gotten better, but it's still CrossFit. It's still wads. It's still combining exercises. It's still this kind of- High-intensity approach. I get the community aspect.

this is what gyms are crap at and CrossFit's great at. They did a great job. And look, I'm going to tell you this right now. And this is just a big epiphany for me in more recent years. Now, I'm a fanatic. So in other words, I'm the rare person who goes to the gym, can do it by myself and enjoy it. But for most people, community, one of the strongest correlates to consistency, like, if someone's going to stay consistent for the rest of their life with fitness, one of the strongest

core lets this community. It just is. It's a fact. Now, I didn't get that before because I'm a fanatic. I do it no matter what. But it's so it's very important. So I like that part of it. But CrossFit is it's, you're doing CrossFit and it's not the best way to do to accomplish aesthetic goals or strength goals. You'll get good at CrossFit. And I'll tell you this much right now. This is a big problem. People and people do this with all sports. They look at the top competitors and they say, well, that's how I need to train to be good at this particular sport. Like if you want to be, you want to build muscle, don't train like a pro bodybuilder. You want to be great at CrossFit.

Don't train like the CrossFit competitors, like the top ones. They're doing way more than you can tolerate. The average person would get better at CrossFit faster if they did it like twice a week. Yeah, it's the mentality that's wrong. It's just, if you look at it as a sport, then you're going to treat differently. Yep. And so, you know, knowing that, like, how often do you compete in a sport? it's like it's you're going to be limited in the amount of times you compete therefore the training

should supplement that and build you up towards it so the problem with me is always they've merged the two together and it doesn't work it's not just that so this person is also a fitness coach a trainer uh in a lot of times what happens to people that love fitness is you do what you can handle and tolerate and therefore you think it's okay so it's like just because you can do crossfit five times a week doesn't make it optimal for results. And so everybody in this room is living proof of this also. At one point in our careers, listen, there was a time when I trained seven days a week,

double days. You know what I could do it. I did it for a long time. Yeah. And you know what? And I was quote unquote fit. I just would have been way fitter doing a lot less, doing it a lot smarter than the way he did.

So it's like everything you're doing is way too much to garner the results that you you want from it. You want to be strong. You want to be mobile. You want to be fit. You want to, you want to look good. You want all those things. Well, trained way different. The training four to five times a day or four or five times a week of CrossFit plus trying to do a maps program. If you, if you did CrossFit twice a week and did Maps 15, one of our Maps 15 programs, you do that for 60 days. If you're listening to this, do this for 60 days. You'll get stronger at every single lift. And you'll probably get very. better.

It's a crossfit. Yeah. That'll work. Next question is from Brenda Partica. At 63, is there a limit to how much you can push your progressive overload training? I competed at age 58 and hit PRs. I never thought I'd be able to do. Now I train for health and physique, but feel overwhelmed not hitting PRs like I did for

years ago. Great question. So you've obviously been training consistently that whole time. And you were training consistently before age 58, because that's when you were hitting PRs. So here's a deal with getting stronger. It's one of the best things to chase for the first few years. It's the best thing to chase for the first few years. After that, chasing strength gives you diminishing returns, and then eventually becomes

a not worth to squeeze. It becomes too much of a risk factor for injury. Okay. So getting stronger is great, but at this point in your lifting current, What you want to do is you just want to get better at movement. You want to get better at movements you're not good at. You want to work on mobility. You want to just continue to maintain where you're at.

You can't possibly hit PRs five, 10, 15 years into your lifting career. Unless you start when you're 15 years old and you're obviously growing into your body, it's just not going to happen. And it's not really a good thing to continue chasing because you will hurt yourself. I'm going to put a little twist on that. Yes, you can hit PRs. But the way that you suggested it, do something you don't. do. Have you ever got really good at Turkish get-ups? Go start those and watch how weak you are

when you first start doing them and watch you PR doing it after you've been doing it for two months. Have you ever got good at windmills? Go get really good at windmills and watch what happens. You're going to hit PRs in that. When people say things like PRs, they automatically default to the bench, squat, deadlift, overhead press. Which they've maxed out by which they've trained for four years, five years, eight years, and they've reached these epic numbers that they'd never thought that maybe they could get. And now they're no longer seeing those. Maybe they even seen a little bit of regression. And now it discourages them because they're not seeing PRs anymore. Well, like, if you want to see PRs, go practice a lift that you've never done or rarely ever do and go get good at it. And

some of the ones that just get, go do a circus. Learn how to do a circus press. Learn to do farmer carries. These are all great movements. They all have. They all have. great movements that have great carryover and benefit to your overall health, physique, and strength, and you can still get that thrill of watching yourself get stronger doing it. But if you're still focused on the four main lifts that we talk about that are so great for you and still trying to hit PRs, the ROI on that at this point in your life is just not there. Next question is from my best friend Jack. How about a guide on how to build a chest when both shoulders have chronic pain.

Okay, so a lot of this determines on what's causing the issue with your shoulders. Right. Or see the stability. But I would focus on shoulder mobility movements like handcuffs with rotation or wall circles or scapular circles. You can find these all in Maps Prime Pro. And now I will go light and slow with my chest exercises to make the light weight feel heavy. Okay. So in the meantime, you're doing your normal pressing movements.

you're picking a weight that's light and your goal is to make it feel heavy through slowing the movement down, squeezing and just making it feel more difficult. But the focus is going to be on shoulder mobility. The key to this is it's not what chest exercises you

do to build a chest through this. It's what you need to do to fix the chronic pain in the shoulders. Chronic pain is movement pattern issues. It's weakness and instability in joints. That's what that is. Unless you had some acute injury were so your shoulder was torn or you had some rotator cuff, something major has happened, which is not most people.

Most people have like this sharp pain in the front of their shoulder, or they have this clicking noise that they notice, or they go to lift over their head and they feel grinding of the, like that chronic pain, that's a movement issue. And that can be corrected and fixed by putting some effort towards fixing the shoulders. You fix the shoulders, you build mobility, stability, and strength. strength in the shoulders and the chest will come up.

You will just get stronger in all your chestless. Yeah, most of the time, to your point, it's, it's the rotation because it's not, you have to be very intentional to focus on introducing that into your everyday training or just like your movement in general. You have to be focusing on where do I add rotation? Where do I, where do I implement this? So that way now, this isn't something that's an instability. My body will recognize this.

It'll add more stability to the joint, which then helps you get through the pain signal and then it helps you actually, like, produce more force. So a lot of the times, like, you know, you start with the mobility, you start with, like, your limitations and range of motion, you find out what those limitations are. You work through that. You regain the stability. Then we just gradually load that. It's really amazing.

when you look at the shoulder joint, not to get too technical, but I don't know if this is an accurate statement, but I think it is. It's one of the, or if not the most complex joint. It is. In the body.

It's floating. It's very complex, and it has incredible mobility. It's got incredible mobility, rotation. It's designed or it evolved, whatever you believe, to be able to throw things

with accuracy, to be able to hang. To do incredible things, but that means it needs to remain balanced and stable with strength that supports all that movement. But when you get there, your shoulders are capable of incredible things. And oftentimes this pain comes from, I'm training the same kind of movement over and over again and not working on those other areas. And so that produces this kind of like huge imbalance of strength, which is where the instability comes. Well, to your point, the shoulder is so complex, can do so many amazing things.

like throw, like hang, like do a move in this full range. And if you stop doing it as we age, your body prunes the ability to do it. Now, that doesn't mean you can't get it back. You can absolutely get it back. And to answer the, a guide for that, that is prime pro. That is why we wrote that program. That program is designed to help people address every major joint in their body when they suffer from chronic pain or lack mobility and instability in those joints.

and you just need to live in the shoulder and shoulder girdle area. Just those are the movements that you do all the time. You do it every day, as many times a day again. Most certainly, you always do it before you lift and lift on chest day. Next question is from the gut check. Are you guys willing to take on an eager, inexperienced, recently certified Nazim personal trainer? Look, that's what we look for. We don't hire trainers here.

We make them. We make them. What we look for is character. what we're looking for are people who have the right passion, dedication, sense of purpose, who understand the culture of mind pump. So it helps that you listen to the show often and that you have our course because we coach you through the course. But you've got to be willing, you've got to be someone who's willing to go through it because it is a privilege to work here. Now, why is it a privilege to work here?

Well, number one, our trainers, we compensate them really well. We provide them with some of the best clients they'll ever get because it comes through the show. and they get some of the best training that I've ever seen ever. I'm jealous and envious of the training that our coaches get. I wish I had that kind of training. And it's just because we have access to such incredible resources because of the podcast. But I don't care how experienced you are.

That's great. That's cool. But you're going to have the right attitude. You got to be the person. I'll talk about one of our top trainers, Marcelo. So he's been with us. How long has Marcelo been with us? About 18 months.

Okay. Year and a half. he now runs the sales training for our coaches he's also a coach himself the guy gets raving like the reviews he gets are just raving phenomenal results with his clients people are getting great results love working with him uh he does such phenomenal job a year and a half ago he was a cop he had no experience do you know how you got a job here he kept showing up he kept showing up here at mind pump and saying i want to work for you guys i want to work in fitness and i think we probably saw him what three times before we gave him a shot.

Was that it? Two or three times? Yeah. And he had the right attitude. And now the guy's incredible. And those are the people we look for. I mean, I have a hot take on this. I don't like experienced trainers. What comes with that is ego and bad habits. They have an ego. They think they better than what they are. Typically, they have bad habits or a way of doing. Just like if you were to ask at golf pro, would you rather take a blank slate somebody who's never swung a club and teach them how to swing a club great?

and be a pro, or would you rather have the guy who's been swinging a club like shit for five years and then try and get them to swing a club with you'll take that person who's brand new all day long and you'll make them a better golfer. I feel the same way about personal training. We've been doing this for so damn long. I feel confident I can take a police officer who's not trained somebody and make them a badass trainer within six months to a year. Then I can take a four or five year trainer with five national certs and train clients and thinks they know everything and thinks they are entitled to all this shit. So I prefer a trainer that is eager to learn, that is listen to the podcast that is inexperienced and is hungry. That trainer ends up being a better coach and

a trainer. And you know, you know, it's funny. That's an old martial arts quote. There's an old martial arts quote, which is like it's easier to teach a beginner how to kick effectively than someone who's been kicking wrong for 20 years. So it's 100% and you get you're 100% right, Adam. All the most successful coaches that I ever had working for me were these beginners that learned and through the process and just became super, super good. But here's a deal. Like, you got to really show that you want to work here. Like, so if you're listening, you want to be a trainer here. Like, you got to be willing to show you really want to work here. We're not going to come chase you down. We got more applicants than we can handle.

You got to show it. There's a clip in the movie Fight Club that reminds me of this. You guys remember that clip where Tyler Durdon He just turns everybody away. Yeah, and they've got that house that like broke it, that beat down house. There's a dude that shows up and he's like, he wants to be in the club and he's like, get out of here and he shuts the door. He doesn't sprays them with water. The guy just sits

there for days. And finally he's like, you can come in. Yeah, all right. You know, that's the kind of attitude I'm looking for. You got to be resilient. Did you see the clip I share with you guys? What a flop that was? Oh, when it first came out. I didn't know that. I know. Did you know that? It was a great movie. It was a massive fail when it first

turned into like a classic. Done one of the greatest classics and cult followings down the road, but was a massive flop when it first hit. I did not know that. Crazy. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, we love trainers. We love hiring trainers.

So if you want to work, where's our, what do people apply here? Is it MP? Mind Pumpjobs.com. But I'm going to tell you right now, if you don't have that attitude, don't apply. I don't want to hire you. Yeah. I don't want you in my place. Don't want you in the culture.

Don't want you training people. I'd say the things that I see, the ones that are doing really well, we, we've, we've, we've, got quite a few coaches and trainers that are new coaches, trainers, but I've been listening to the podcast for long. I've listened to a lot of the podcast. Yeah, you got to be bought into the culture.

I mean, we teach, we teach coaching and philosophy on here. If you've listened to us, coach people answer these questions, I went there. I mean, that education, like I said,

I'll take that over the trainer who went out and got eight national certifications, worked at some big box gym for six years, and he's listening to 10 episodes and wants a job. Then the trainer who's listened to most all the episodes, but it's never coached anybody because what you've learned listening to us, coach people, and from our experience, far more valuable. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

It's Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, maps' aesthetic,

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