Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2902: How 311 Has Stayed Together for 35 Years — Nick Hexum on Sobriety, Fitness and Creativity

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

In this episode the guys sit down with Nick Hexum, lead singer and co-founder of 311, just hours before a live show. Nick opens up about how the band has stayed together for 35 years, his path to sobriety in 2005-06 and how the band stuck by him through it, bringing weights on the road since 1993 and having a full gym dressing room on every tour, and why exercise was his earliest tool for managing anxiety and depression. He covers the study showing dance and exercise outperform SSRIs for depression by one and a half times, how he syncs his workouts to BPM-specific playlists, working with a vocal coach who saved his career, losing his youngest brother to an overdose and finally writing a song about it, Shaq showing up to their music video during the NBA playoffs with two left shoes and a siren on his SUV, meeting Joe Strummer of The Clash and finding a 311 sticker on his boom box, the Rick Rubin creativity principle of audience coming last, and his new Americana solo project with mandolin and fiddle. He also shares his thoughts on AI in the music industry, how the Grateful Dead touring model saved them from the Napster collapse, and why he surfed ten-foot Santa Cruz waves the day before this interview. MAPS Upper Lower: https://mapsupperlower.comCode: LAUNCH for 40% off. Includes male and female programs, workout videos, exercise demos, coaching videos and live coaching with Cole. SPONSORS Seed Daily Synbiotic: https://seed.com/mindpumpCode: 25MINDPUMP for 25% off your first month. GUEST LINKS Nick Hexum: https://www.instagram.com/nickhexum 311 Official: https://www.311.comWater Tower Band: https://www.watertowerband.com LINKS Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.comMaps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia 0:00 - Intro 1:59 - How 311 has stayed together for 35 years — democracy, gratitude and knowing you're better together 9:06 - Nick's sobriety journey in 2005-06 and how the band helped him get there 11:17 - Bringing weights on the road since 1993 — gym dressing room on every 311 tour 13:09 - Why outliers and creative people are more drawn to self-medicating 16:32 - How the music industry changed through CDs, Napster, Spotify and now AI 20:57 - Why the Grateful Dead live touring model protected 311 from the Napster collapse 25:47 - The inspiration behind Amber and how it was written in one hour on a Saturday morning 29:58 - Writing a song about losing his youngest brother to an overdose 36:41 - Exercise 1.5x more effective than SSRIs for depression — the meta-analysis 43:16 - How Nick syncs his workouts to BPM-specific playlists for different exercises 47:17 - Breaking through fear as the key to growth — busking and surfing ten-foot waves before this interview 51:21 - How Nick warms up before a show and why working out 90 minutes before performs better 54:05 - Working with a vocal coach who saved his voice 57:42 - Three teenage daughters and the 90s resurgence making him the cool dad again 59:27 - First big purchase after getting signed: a 1969 Lincoln Continental with suicide doors that caught fire 1:01:23 - The Shaq story — two left shoes, an illegal siren through LA traffic and the NBA playoffs secret 1:04:36 - Nick's current fitness routine — F45, trail running in Topanga Canyon and tour prep  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded Fitness, Health, and Entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode. We interviewed Nick Hexum, the lead singer from 311.

You know, that band that has so many hit records and songs. We listened to them back in the day. great interview. He's really into fitness, continues to tour. We know you're going to love this episode. Now, this episode is brought to you by Seed. So Seed is the world's best probiotic. Now look, there are studies that show that taking a probiotic helps things like gut health. Everybody knows that. But did you know that probiotics also help with skin health, the health of your hair? They help with fat loss, muscle growth, athletic performance, anxiety. the data shows this.

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hit pause, head on over to Mind PumpStore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Nick, welcome to the show, man. Hey, thanks for having me. I got an interesting question for you because you guys have been together for 30 years? 35. 35 years. 36 on June 10th. That's the anniversary.

Okay. I have a personal reason for the question I'm about to ask because we've all been together as business partners with this podcast now for about 11 years, which is rare in the new media space. super rare for people to stick together that long. And so people are always asking us, how do you guys work together? How do you keep it that long? I think it's probably even more rare in music

for a band to stay together, especially when they achieve a level of success, which you definitely have, especially for three decades. How do you guys do that? How have you stayed together for 35 years through all of that? Yeah. Well, you got to be flexible.

you got to be ready to not get your way and get out voted sometimes. You got to respect democracy. It's kind of good when there's an odd number of people because you're not going to get deadlocked at two to two. So we have five band members and I know I'm going to get outvoted sometimes and have to lick my wounds and just accept it. But I think underneath that is knowing that we're better together than we could be a part. It's greater than the sum of the parts, that keeping an attitude of

gratitude that I'm very fortunate to be in 3-11 and that we stumbled on a special lineup that wouldn't be the same without who we are. So it's, like you said, bands will break up if, especially maybe the lead singer thinks, well, I could do this on my own. You know what I mean? But I I've always known that I was very fortunate to have those guys and that they add a lot and they keep me balanced and there's a gas and a break type of arrangement. Some people have crazier ideas and other people need to be like,

well, let's slow down a little bit. Was there a bond going in to the man? Did you guys have to know each other? Yeah, did you all? Because what's unique about us also is that we knew of each other, but really when we built this together, it was the first time we all came together. We weren't like hanging out homies before.

Was it similar with you guys or did you have a bond before? Well, for you guys, it was Providence. You stumbled into something great. For us, we were high school buddies, three of us. And then we met the other two guys like in college years, which we didn't really go to college, a little bit here and there. But so, yeah, it just, it's,

started with friendship, you know, and I had kind of moved out to L.A. by myself from Omaha when I was 17 and floundered around the sunset strip, you know, seen for a little bit. And it just, I realized the best thing I could do was to go back and link up with my buddies from Omaha because they, they got it, the way I got it. And so it started pretty organically. You know, you, what you said earlier, I mean, I guess you could sum it up and say, stay humble and gracious, which that's got to be hard in music when you're getting crowds of people. Just adorned constantly. And, you know, people are like, you're so great and all this stuff. Like, how do you, especially when maybe not now, 35 years later, you're wise, you've done it for a while.

You're like, okay, I know what this is like. But when you're a kid and you're from Omaha and you're getting this attention, talk about the mind games that they can play on you. And how did you guys navigate that? Yeah, it can play tricks on the brain, you know, when you have a lot of people adoring you. And I think that's kind of why a lot of solo artists get into more trouble because they don't have like a crew of people telling them no. You know what I mean? Like Michael Jackson never had a bandmate being like, yo, chill out. Yeah, but it could go the other way sometimes too.

You've got bandmates that are like, keep going, dude. I can think quite a few of those I could imagine. But yeah, with all the fans and the partying and the substances it can come in, it can get a little... Do you guys check each other pretty well? Definitely.

Yeah, when you go, take me through each friend, right? And bad member, because they're mostly very good friends. Obviously, great friends by this point. Like, what does each guy represent in the circle? Because I think of the four of us, like we're so different, but it represents, I think, The mix is perfect, which I imagine you've got something similar, where someone's probably more the aggressive guy. Someone's a guy, like you said, the Braves.

Someone does the business. Someone's, yeah, like, who's who? And, like, explain their role. Well, I'd probably just mostly want to speak for myself and say that I'm the one that's, like, throwing out a lot of crazy ideas. And sometimes the guys are like, yes. And sometimes I'm like, I don't know about that one, dude. And I've realized that that was good for me to have. And they're just very honest, good guys.

I've come to really appreciate them. And I think it's important in any type of long relationship to focus on the strengths of the arrangement, whether it's your wife or your bandmates or whatever, you can drive yourself nuts by being like, I just wish they would do this one thing differently. Oh God, yeah. You can instead choose to

focus on their strengths. And we as humans have a magnifying mind that those become bigger the more we focus on them. So you really have a choice of it's the same thing with like, thankful Thursdays. I make a gratitude list on Thursday to take stock of all the blessings I have in my life because it's very easy to stay focused on the problem du jour and to force yourself to look at your blessings is very important in life or in a band or any kind of relationship. Where do you, what are the areas about, because you'll just speak for yourself, right? What are the parts about you that your, your partners give you grace on? So I can name a few for myself that my partner's give.

What are they parts about you? We're like, man, I feel so blessed that they overlook these aspects of how I do things. Wow, man. Well, I think they were patient with me when I was struggling and I needed to get sober. You know, that's probably the biggest one. That's a big one. And there's other times where they'll say, like, I'm not super into this idea, but I can tell it's important to you. So let's try it.

Talk about that hard period of where you had to go through sobriety. When was that? And what was that process like? Back in, like, 05, 06 was like when I was like, basically the story was, I got it, I got it, I got it. okay I don't got it in that moment of like all right I something's wrong here that I went through and the other guys kind of led me toward that realization and then it basically opened the floodgates of learning to ask for help whether it's with recovery or fitness or taking guitar lessons that humility to remain teachable is something that's very important especially when you've achieved some level of success, you know, people are like,

you take guitar lessons. I'm like, yes, there's plenty that I still have to learn. Yeah. Talk about how hard, because that's hard anyway. Like for someone comes at sobriety successfully,

that's like incredible. But to do it in an industry where you're in a party. Yeah, you're in that world. Like, talk about how, because a lot of guys don't make it out. Yeah.

Talk about how difficult that is in that, in that environment alone. Yeah, well, I think, you know, so I was, what, 35, 36 back then. So it's so much more part of what people do for fun is go out and rage at clubs and, you know what I mean, that kind of situation. But now it's no big deal because everybody around me

is naturally kind of cleaned up their act. and more focused on like, hey, we don't want to feel like shit in the morning. You know, so it's not that big of a deal, but it was harder at the time. Like, all right, I need to figure out how to ways to have fun and how to be social and different things without the booze and et cetera. Yeah. Was this where really your passion for fitness started to kind of take off as you're going through that sobriety process? Or was that before? I know.

I would say it was more about, I think when I was like 20, that I realized that if I went for a long run and lifted some weights, that that would help me with my crazy. It would help. And even back in the 90s, I remember reading an article, endorphins are nature's antidepressants. Yep. So I've always, and I saw that in my own reaction that I would feel better and have more confidence and feel more relaxed and less anxiety. So it was, it was always kind of part of it. But then I evolved quite a bit. I mean, there was, we actually were one of the first bands to bring weights out with us on the road. Oh, really?

Yeah. A weight bench, doing bench, pre. press. That's rad. When did you guys start doing that? The beginning, 93. Wow. Yeah, that was really hard. Wow. So on the road, you go get your workout. Still to this day, we have a one dressing room is the gym and it has like an exercise bike and a weight bench and free weights and mats and kettlebell, everything. And everybody was on board or was this mainly you driving this?

Back in the day, we would all do it. And then people kind of. of, well, one guy's more into like yoga now. And so it's mostly me and essay that do the, do the weights and everything every day. You know what's interesting when you look at the, I love talking to people like you because, you know, if you look at general population, everybody kind of fits in this nice bubble. And then you have outliers. And so you could have, you can be outliers in this direction with like dysfunction. And then you have outliers with like musical talent or.

intelligence with engineering or whatever. And the more of an outlier you are, there's a higher rate of being drawn to self-medicating. And I've heard this before, will people say the part of me that makes me good at hyper-focusing and, you know, creating this company or being a really good musician is also this part of me that, man, when I'm not playing, I'm like, it's hard to deal with.

Is that true? Do you find that to be true? And it was exercise a way for you to kind of like, you found that as a way to kind of calm that? Yeah, too much energy. I think that I've always felt like that. I remember as a kid seeing the book on a bookshelf, the unbearable lightness of being.

Like, that I felt that at times. So I needed to learn to challenge that. To channel that. And now I've just noticed that I have to always be working towards a goal, whether it's a new song, fitness, home projects, whatever it is. So sitting still is like, you just drive you crazy? Yeah, it doesn't work for me. Yeah, yeah.

What's it like, you know, because you're doing a show today after this. What's it like doing it show now versus, I don't know, early days? Well, I think I've learned a lot of health hacks as far as, A, getting my voice ready, singing scales, warming up my guitar playing, stretching, knowing just the right way to work out. Before it was just like, I can't even believe what we would party until five in the morning, get a few hours of sleep, get up, and that's, and then like lift weights and soundcheck and then start partying and then do the show and party after the show.

I could not do that. anymore. So it was good to clean up the act. Who have you, you've toured with a bunch of other, who are some of the people you guys have toured with? Well, getting an opening slot for 311 was kind of a good springboard for a few bands back in the early 90s, like no doubt, corn, deaf tone, sugar A incubus. So we toured with a ton of great bands and some of them went on to become quite a bit bigger than us, but

we still, you know, we do our unity tour in the summer where we'll pair with cool bands. And lately, I mean, we've had everybody from sublime, dirty heads, the roots, Ziggy Marley. Who's your favorite to tour with? Oh, man. I mean, us in Incubis

had so much fun back in the day. We haven't toured with them in a while. but is that just because you guys connected because you guys connected it's like a similar yeah yeah yeah there was just there was just a kinship feeling with them yeah yeah well you guys were like one of the first kind of cross genre bands and so it was interesting because you've toured with different styles of music too right so you've done like rap you've done like reggae you've done you know some punk and like so did you ever do any with the grunge bands because I know your music itself is like pretty positive and energetic.

And it seems like that's a little bit of a clash with like some of the doom, you know, grungy kind of. Yeah, I mean, I like, I like heavy music and I like the fact that with grunge that they could have heavy music without like, you know, dressing up in spandex and with a hairspray and everything. Yeah. So I definitely enjoyed that. But like there was one year, I think it was 95, where we were. went from the Warp Tour, which is punk rock, to the Horde tour, which was hippie music,

to the Cypress Hill Temples of Boom tour. And people are like, you were the only band that would fit in. Yeah, how do you fit there? Talk about the different fan. What's the vibe like in all of those? How different is the vibe in each of those arenas? It is pretty different, but like, you know, we just did a South American tour with Limp Biscuit. Or maybe kind of lean heavier more on the heavier stuff for a show like that.

And then we'll do these like reggae festivals like Monterey or whatever. And then we'll do more of a reggae leaning set. But we pretty much just do just go and do our thing. But there are times when we can see like, okay, this is this is a little too hard for this particular crowd. Or maybe like they're not into the softer stuff. So set lists or changes based on that. a fresh set list every night. Well, you guys have a gazillion songs.

Have you gone through phases where one of you has felt like they have lost the love for it and then had to rekindle that? Or have you guys been consistently in love with doing it all the time? That's a long time to stay. Yeah. Well, you know, I think people ask, like, is it really enjoyable to play Amber every night? And it is because I am there to be of service. and I know what that song meant to people.

So I'm not strictly there for my own enjoyment, my own enjoyment. I enjoy it when I know they're enjoyed. It's true you feed off the people you're playing for them. Yeah. What was the inspiration for that song, by the way? It's a love song. Yeah, it's a love song. Is there someone?

Probably. It was just, I was trying to make, like, amber is the color of a sunset. And to make like all the warmest sounding tones, like that guitar tone is the warm envelope filter effect on there makes it so there's like nothing harsh in the entire song. So it was just like a concept that really came together. And I wrote it in like an hour on a Saturday morning. Wow. So you, I'm trying.

So now it's just occurring to me that you guys have been around so long that you, you went through different stages of the music industry. It was like CDs, maybe, and then downloading music. So you had the whole Napster thing going on, and then iTunes. Oh, that's changing everything. Now you've got like AI, which is really weird. Like, what was it like going through all of that? And then, and it's end with AI, because that's a really big, strange, like, how's this going to work?

Yeah. So we were there for very huge C-Chance. changes, which one of them was first the heyday of CDs when they were charging 1799 for CDs. So that was the late 90s. And then Napster caused a complete collapse in recorded music. At that time, were you guys like, what are we going to do? Was it like a big panic? We had already made the conscious transition to more have the business model of like the

Grateful Dead, which is we're a live band first. Oh, yeah. So, smart. Yeah, we're going to tour every summer. That's our mainstay. And we'll work the albums in. Smart when we can't. Yeah.

So we had already kind of pivoted. So it didn't really affect us as much as more pop artists that were just relying on CD sales. Yeah, because their revenue just. Yeah. Yeah. And then it picked up again through streaming services, you know, like, Spotify figured out how to make it something that was better than free. You know what I mean?

Like you were ready to pay for it because of the convenience, instead of having to go on Limewire and download stuff, they don't pay the most fair royalty rates, but there's still... Still a business. Yeah, it's a business. And the music industry is back at all-time highs. So it survived.

And music is such an integral part. I mean, it's been around between 50 and 100,000 years as part of human bonding to get together, tribal dance, getting together. So I try and see when I'm putting on a concert, like this is like an essential part of humanness. Yeah. And then AI is really weird right now

because if you asked me five years ago, what do you think AI would do last? I would have said art and music. For some reason, I'm like this, there's a component of creativity there that a computer can't do. Dude, it's creating music, and I can't even tell.

And it's weird. And it's tripping me out. Like, how are people, now you guys have been around. You have a loyal audience. So you're set. But I can't imagine these new artists are probably freaking out

or thinking like how they're going to, like, do you have any predictions of how the industry is going to, work with this? I'm not too worried about it, but maybe I should be. I just know that, like, people are connecting with the heart that comes through the art. And, but, you know, AI is a tool like anything else that could be used for help or for harm. But there's going to be crazy, like, bespoke content where you,

you can say like, hey, AI, make me a combination of these different artists, and it'll do it for you. But that only can happen when there's like fair compensation for the people that are training it. But I don't know. For me, like I'm with this current project that I'm doing, which is Americana, it's old-timey instruments, mandolin and fiddle and pedal steel guitar and banjo and stuff like that. I'm just very into the classicness of that, I don't know, the AI, AI can make a somewhat of a facsimile, but I don't think it's going to anytime soon replace the real deal. What motivated this new direction?

Oh, man, just following my curiosity, I mean, that to me is the ultimate way to stay creative is that when you get a sense. of something that you want to follow, you go towards it. And that's always, you know, being from Nebraska, that's always been around me and my mom's from Nashville. So that influence has always been there, but maybe I was kind of denying it or avoiding it. So it just felt really natural to do that. And it just happened not through a conscious decision,

but just by like meeting people like my buddy Kenny from the band Water Tower who were backing me up tonight. He and I just kind of, he gave me mandolin lessons and then we started writing songs. And it's just kind of one thing led to another. And it also came from reading Rick Rubin's book about creativity, which is about that you need to take a lot of chances in your art and have frequent, releases so you don't get caught up like writer's block is basically where anybody can write a song it writers block is when you don't like it so you need to keep just putting out music and getting having the courage to keep doing that and then another book i read called saved by a song

was about going into vulnerable parts exploring the deep the dark caves of your psyche because that's a very cathartic and people really relate so going into kind of tough stuff that I maybe didn't feel comfortable singing about before that lint itself towards this kind of Americana. So I know he's going tonight. I'll be telling some stories about like the different songs about what. Yeah, I was going to ask you too. Like, has there been moments where, um, so your record label or they're kind of

pressuring you to do these follow-ups for hits and, you know, you're driven by your art and what's coming from within. And are you driven more by, um, what you like is the outcome of it versus like what the audience is receiving. You can't actually write a good song based on like a focus group. It does not work. You just have to follow curiosity and do what you think is cool. If you're too worried about what everyone thinks,

you're going to lose your originality and that authenticity. So as much as I'll hear comments of like, you guys need to do more of this or that. and I'll just say like if that's what we happen to do that's cool. You reference Rick Rubin and I'm sure I'll mess the quote up. I've heard him say that like I don't make this for them. I do it for myself and that's like that's true artistry, right? It's like going down the path of it's actually more of a selfish thing that you're doing.

And if it turns out there's a bunch of people that connect to it and like it. Great. If they don't, then so what. Yeah. You get in a lot of trouble chasing that. Yeah. No, that's that's right. He says audience comes last because you will dilute your creativity if you're,

I wonder if they're like this quarter, that quarter, whatever. Like you just have to make what's cool to you and follow that curiosity. Which isn't a guarantee that's going to do great. But if you do the other way or you try to cater to them, that's almost always a guarantee that's not going to do great. Yeah, it's going to be bland. And it's going to suck. So you grew up in Nebraska.

And then how old were you when he came to L.A.? 17. Was there a culture shot? Because that's a big, that's like not the same place at all. Where does the surf kind of vibes come from being in? There's no surfing to Brown. Yeah. From the beach boys.

Like growing up, I loved this whole, like, idea of L.A. and surf culture and beach. I mean, I was lucky enough to get to travel a ton with my grandparents. So we would go to Caribbean and Hawaii. and beaches a lot. So I already loved it. I just knew that's where I wanted to be. And then also the punk rock that was coming out of L.A. was really cool.

Like, you know, there was fishbone and the chili peppers and, you know, Jane's Addiction that were just blowing up right when I got there. And I was like this. And that's kind of where the hybrid music started. Like, I know you said that we were one of the first band. but like they were the actual first bands, but we took it to,

you know, a new way. Like we were probably the first band on the radio that was combining rap and rock. That's, that's, I think the most distinctive part I've noticed, because it was the,

yeah, it was the rap rock kind of mash up. And you saw some of that a bit with like Aerosmith and, you know, and how there was kind of some, but it seemed engineered. It wasn't authentic.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you're talking early, early mid 90s that you came to L.A.? 88. 80. Okay.

88. So this is before, because now with the internet, I mean, you still can't get a total feel, but you can see what it's like. But your experience of L.A. at 17 and 88 was probably like magazines, MTV. Then you go to L.A. was a culture shock where you're like, whoa, were the things that you saw that you expected and things that you did not expect? Yeah.

Well, I think it was just a little frustrating because linking up with the right people, you know, there was like these, the recycler and musicians connection magazines and then I would go and, you know, try and jam with people and it was just a lot of hair metal. It was still the tail end of, you know, Motley Crew and all those kind of...

Death Leppard and all that stuff. It was that kind of thing. And I was like, that's not my jam. So that's what led to me realizing like my boys from Omaha would be my best collaborator. You talked about going to these deep dark caves and trying to pull that out and that's part of the inspiration of where you're going now. Can you share with us like an area that you've struggled to go to a place that you've, are you recently going to right now to inspire you?

Yeah, I have a song about my youngest brother dying of an overdose and that's something that I didn't want to talk about because it was too painful. full, but I know that there's so many families that have gone through similar things. Just other things like family stuff. My own, there's a song called Work of Fiction where I'm talking about my own desire for validation and approval and just cleaning out the closet because that's what really good art can do is to be cathartic and help you process. things. How do you survive that validation challenge while being an artist that is in front of, you're touring every summer? That's like the ultimate validation machine, if I could imagine one.

So it's feeding this, I don't know if you would say an insecurity at the same time you're like trying to deal with it. Like how do you do that? Well, I think the reason why what I was saying earlier, especially some solo artists, you know, lose control is because they're so focused on the outside validation that learning to live in a way that you approve of yourself is ultimately so much more important. And that comes from the self-esteem of doing esteemable acts, of having an attitude of service, of being helpful, of being kind,

being generous that I need to approve of myself because outside validation does not fix you the way self-esteem does. Any challenging times that got challenged? Like maybe you did a performance where you're like, man, they didn't like that or I don't like that. Can you name some where it was like, oh, this is going to be tough? Yeah, well, I've heard other, I think I've heard Bono talk about this, that if he's doing a concert and he can tell that there's one person that's just kind of sitting there. Like it's very hard not to focus on that one person. So you really, just in the same attitude of gratitude,

you need to focus on what's working rather than looking for that one possible, you know, failure. Yeah. When you talked about one of the things you guys did that, I think it was so brilliant, was always focusing on your audience and the touring and live throughout all these things, right, that we've watched Spotify and everything come through. When you look back at all these years, what are some of the bad business decisions that you think you guys made?

Oh, bad. You know, we are always, we're pretty careful to keep things in-house and not just like, you know, sell away all of our rights. Like some artists just see a check and they make bad decisions. So, you know, we've been pretty careful about that. keeping a grassroots attitude.

That was the name of our second album because we were like, we can't rely on the label or anything to do this for us. So we're just going to take it straight to the fans. So I can't think of any band decisions that were very bad, but I have at extreme risk tolerance that have made some

blunders, but mostly good ones. The fact that you guys, this is something that, you know, not that it's no disrespect to even compare us to what you guys have done because it's nothing like that. But one of the things that people always are, because we've tied everything, every bit of every business, our angel investing, our real estate portfolio, everything that we've built. We're all equal partners in everything. And people are always like, how in the hell does that work with four people? Like, similar. So you're four. Okay. Yeah, there's four. Yeah.

So you can get into a deadlock of two verses. Yeah. Yeah. I know that. We get into it. You got to go to rock papers. Yeah. And why I lie, even though, again, it's no disrespect to even compare you.

It's just like, we all are responsible for different things. I would say Sal's our lead singer, right? So it's like. For sure. But there's things that everybody does, but you still get, like, we get equal credit, no matter what. There's certain parts that guys handle. So.

But what people have always asked is like, man, is there never a time when like one of the guys needs more money or, needs more of that. Like you have an opportunity where they're like, sell the rights and we can get this big million dollar payout. And one of the guys like, man, I can really use that right now. Like that hasn't. No, no, we, we, we, everybody brings their own certain strengths. You know what I mean? Tell me, uh, you're, I always like talking to someone who's had the amount of successes you had to, um, your relationship with money and that journey. Uh, a lot of times when you're young and you come into a ton of money, especially if I don't know your history, if you came from much or not,

But what has that journey been like? Well, I think we all made kind of smart decisions of, you know, buying houses and stuff back in the mid-90s. So, you know, it's all worked out pretty good. But we just kind of maintain a slow burn. You know what I mean? Like we're not big, huge ups and downs basically because of, our solid fan base that's not it's not the biggest in the world but it's a cult following so it's

enabled us to have a very consistent business but it's not super high flying we're not on private jets or any of that were you always grateful of that because you know sometimes i think artists could be thirsty to want to be crush yeah yeah i mean i we again again i hate to keep comparing us because it's like uh in the podcasting space we're not joe rogan but we have this incredible loyal fan base that has been a blessing has been an absolute blessing i I actually like that. Lots of state of growth for sure. And so have you always liked that?

Or did you thirst for more and then you've now become like grateful for that? I mean, I think that there's a healthy itch to keep a little bit of hunger going, you know, and keep exploring and putting, making new music and so forth. And I'm, I'm only human. I'm not completely immune to envy when I, you know, see somebody went in a Grammy. or something like that. But then I just get back to how incredibly blessed I am. Who are your favorite artists that you like to pull from?

I mean, Paul McCartney is the greatest living musician, in my opinion, as far as all around, you know, from course songwriting, singing, instrumentation, performing, just and having such a vibe of love. love and positivity. Like, that's the pinnacle. When you were a kid, you said Beach Boys? Yes. I love cheerful music. It always has transported me.

Yeah, that comes through for sure. Can you go through, like, the different influences you had growing up? Because I'm sure, like, you know, some different stages you had different, like right now, you're listening to music that takes you back to. Did you ever have an angry face, like metal? That's really what I want to know. Well, the first band that really blew my mind was The Clash. Okay, yeah.

That's a great band. Fairly, fairly angry. You know, it was about, you know, kind of fight the power sort of revolution rock. And that really appealed to me when I was 13. And I just became so obsessed with that band. And so now I've had a few times when artists tell me, not artists, when fans tell me, 311 is to me what the clash was to you. Wow.

Wow. That's cool. That's a pretty special place. And it's also something that there's only a window when people can get that into a band when they're in their teen years. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah, good point. And it'll be a special place for you forever.

Yeah. Yeah. Have you met anybody as you guys were coming? This happened to me. couple times where I'll meet someone and I was like I've been following them since I was a kid and I'm a fan they're like yeah I love your show and I'm like what like have you had an opportunity to meet some of your heroes so um I'll try and make this story fairly quick basically getting to meet Joe strummer of the clash the way it went down is that um the guy that was managing him was having a dinner party and he was like yeah come by Joe strummer's going to be there and when I got there, there was this cool Cuban music coming out of a boombox, and I went over a little closer, and it had a 3-11 sticker on it.

No. No. Oh, yeah, that's Joe's boombox. I was like, my hero has our sticker. That's a cool. My life is not. Did he know you're a huge fan? Did he know?

Yeah. Did you know? I mean, I think he heard. Did you totally fan girl when you met him? Like, what was that like? Oh, man. I was just like, yes, I fan girled. Now, was it what you had?

expected you because you build it up. Was it what you expect it? Or because sometimes you hear stories. People meet their hero. Yeah, it's usually a lot. That guy was not, he was a jerk or he wasn't as cool as I thought he was. He was great. He imparted me with just so much perspective and wisdom of having been through, you know,

I guess about a 30 year career at that point. So, yeah, it was really powerful. Any artists like that that you've met along the way that maybe shattered your paradigm or changed your thinking along the way? I don't know. I mean, there's definitely some assholes out there. Can you name them?

I'm going to guess in the hair metal space. That would not be my usual positivity to talk shit out on anybody, throw shade, but I'm sure that taught you though something, right? I'm about that, right?

Yeah, yeah, but that's not how I want to be. Can you tell us without naming names where that kind of, because there's, I mean, this happens where you meet someone,

someone, you have an expectation, and they just crush you because they're either a jerk or they're just whatever. I mean, it's happened a few times that people in bands that I met have made like extremely racist comments. And I'm like, really? Yeah, how is this? In the music industry? Yeah. You get canceled for that. I'm surprised. You just kind of shocked, I'm sure. Yeah. I was like, really, you're just going to say that out here with some guy you just met? You're from Nebraska, right? Yeah. Let me just make this joke real.

Tell us about the fitness journey, because you're like, this is like a big part of your life now. So I know you were working out, but back you were also partying and stuff. And at what point was this, like, how did that evolve for you with fitness, with cognitive health,

mental health, all that stuff? So I think it was all kind of self-taught until at the same point of, you know, when I got sober, like I said, that led to asking for help in many areas. And so that was working with personal trainers, getting into boxing, and taking that feedback from a coach. And just, you know, but I keep getting, combining it with mental health. And there was, I have to tell everyone.

everybody about this study that is um because to me it was such a game changer it's about study on fighting depression yeah okay and it goes through all the different things like whether it's SSRIs or different types of of exercise i'm gonna so i probably sal can tell you we've we've talked about it all time yeah we probably put to this before this might surprise you look at what's at the top of the list yeah dance yeah Yeah, dance, walking, jogging, cognitive behavioral therapy, yoga. Told you guys you started dancing. Yeah.

Exercise, SSRI, strength. I mean. The dances at the top. Yeah. And there's studies that, here you go, brother. There's a lot of studies on exercise and depression and anxiety. And there was a recent meta analysis that showed that. So the previous studies had shown it was as effective, at least, as medication and talk therapy.

And I always argue that if you stretched the study out long enough, exercise would do even better because there's no down regulation receptors. There's no negative side effects. It just keeps getting better and better. Well, now we had recently we had this meta analysis that showed it was one and a half times as effective. So why do you think that is? Because one of them you're talking about your problems and tackling them. The other one is you're exercising.

Yeah. Why do you think it's so effective for that? well you probably know more about the the brain chemistry but i just know that i want on your your perspective because you you experienced uh depression and you know substance abuse and then exercises that could be i love hearing from people like you like what was your experience to that i i mean the reason why people attend concerts is for the the oxytocin and the bonding and a high that comes from synchronized movement.

Totally. People think that when you go to boot camp that you're marching just to get in shape, but it's actually building a hive mindset. Like, you know, there's been studies of people that from marching day after day

that they feel this feeling of love and purpose in the bonding. So that's what a concert provides. So that my job is to get everybody to lose their inhibitions and get moving. So they, they feel that high from it. And then, so when I exercise, I sync my exercise up to music, whether, so I have different playlists. Like, I'm a tall guy, so I only jog at 150 BPM when that, so I have a whole playlist that's just

150 BPM and I run in time. What is that EDM? What are you listening to? Yeah. There's like a whole genre called Hard Style, which is that tempo. Then when I'm on the elliptical or I'm jumping rope, it'll be techno, which is 130, you know? And then, and even when I'm lifting weights, I'm sinking up like one, two, three, four, one. And just doing things really, so really isolate. And then, but feeling the music too.

Not always, but that's when I enjoy it the most. I'm getting like a dancing high while I'm doing strength training. Totally. That's cool. There's such a, it's such an interesting combination or should I say, association or crossover between music and movement or exercise. Obviously. So, because we think of dance and we don't think of it as exercise because it's dance,

but it's movement. And little kids will do this. You'll play music. Nobody's taught them how to dance and they suddenly start to move. So there's something there. And I don't know of too many people that don't like to work out to music.

And then there's data that shows very clearly that especially if you have an emotional connection to certain music, it'll improve your performance better than a performance enhancing, you know, stimulant. So there's this really interesting connection. But I think a lot of the benefit from exercise because I guess it releases feel good chemicals and all this stuff. But I could give you those chemicals, and it's not going to do the same thing.

So I could find, I could get chemicals like endorphins inject you, and it's not going to be as beneficial. I think part of it is you're doing something hard to get it. And then there's the growth process of, well, I suck at this exercise. I get better at it. I got to have discipline. When you get reward for things that are hard, you don't get the down regulation that you would when you get something that feels good

and you didn't do anything hard. you just took a pill or, you know, snorted something. Yeah. Breaking through those mental barriers is so important. Like yesterday, I had a day off. And the two ideas that both were a little bit fear-inducing was, A, go down to the mall in Santa Cruz and busk on the street corner with my friends from Water Tower. That's very unfamiliar to me.

But I was like, that's terrifying. Let's do it. And then I was like, and then I'm going surfing, which the waves were very big yesterday. So I was like, I'm going to take, I'm going to, I'm going to hire a surf instructor because I don't want to drown and the waves are 10 feet high. And it was so, I got long rides, 100 yards. Wow. Paddling back out, fighting through the waves was like so exhausting. So this morning, I'm sore, tired.

but I was like, I know the best thing for me today to get ready for the concert, to get ready for this podcast is to work out. So even though I'm in the RV and all I had was a mat and a jump rope, I still managed to get a good start with cardio to get warm and then do strength training just with like squats, pushups. Dude, you swam out here and there's sharks out there. Before you came your day, he was just talking about how security is. That's a great.

That's a great. A little further south. I've heard that. I don't know if it's interesting. I don't know if it's interesting. There's few things that light up the whole brain. You know, because different activities will light up parts of the brain. But there are certain things that light up the whole brain in a way that integrates them.

One of them is music. So music affects the brain in a way to where it helps you. learn other things. So it can help you learn math, science. And we know this now because we pulled it out of school and we're like, oops, we made a mistake. We're trying to put it back in. Exercise and activity does this as well. It lights up the whole brain. So it's a very natural thing to combine. And so my question to you is, do you think it helped you with your music? Absolutely. Okay. Not just the fitness part, but the creativity part. Yeah. I think that getting that the confidence that you get from exercise will help you make more courageous

artistic decisions and the clarity that you get from it and I know that if I hit the stage cold I'm not going to do as good of a show if I get properly warmed up before I get out there you know we what does that look like what does a warm up look like before you get out and do a set So I like to do brief cardio just to get warm and then do like weights and core about 90 minutes before the show. Wow. So an hour and a half. You're working out. Yeah. Okay. So it's not like a little warm up. You're actually doing a workout. Yeah. No, no. I didn't mean 90 minute duration. I meant. Oh, before. Like 90 minutes before the show starts. Got it. Got it. So I probably work out about 25, 30 minutes. And then. have an hour to like

get dressed and warm up the voice and then the show is like about 100 minutes long so that's another really good workout but I know the shows go better if I'm getting my body revving up my engine yeah the whole voice preservation thing

I notice too like your your tone's very low through this and I know that's purposeful because you're going to be singing and out with it a lot how how do you manage that like touring so much and staying healthy. Are you like not yelling at people that cut you off? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't scream at people. That was just another one of the things that I learned to ask for help with is to work with a vocal coach that could help me do the warm-ups where I learned to sing through the break, which is the break is the separation between your speaking range and your falsetto, to be able to go through that and naturally go back and forth. between that, which I never knew until I found this one guy who just, like, saved my voice. You know what's interesting about, well, there's a lot of things interesting that are

interesting about music, but I find it fascinating that it's, I said this earlier, it lights up the whole brain, it helps you learn other things. It's how you, it's the best way to remember things is through music. It's really interesting thing that happens in the brain, where if I sing something, I'll remember far more than if it wasn't attached to a tune. Then there's this other interesting thing that I noticed in

concerts where if you hear me sing on my own, I'm not very good. You hear Adam sing he's terrible. Justin's a lot better, Doug but if you put 5,000 people together and they sing a song together, it kind of sounds good.

There's like this harmony that happens. It's almost like we're supposed to all Cancels out the errors. Is that, I mean, is that true? What do you think? Yeah. No, I think that that's part of what I mentioned about tribal dance is singing together. Like, humans are so naturally want to do what other people are doing.

And we find skills that we didn't know we have when we link up with other people. Like, just how you mentioned that are not so. good singer can sing good when it's combined with everybody else. That's why you hear the soccer chants and stuff that just sound incredible. Isn't it rad? Yeah, it's so cool. What's your favorite song to perform? I mean, my songs are like my kids.

I can't pick a favorite kid. You can pick a lot. You're not going to say to the podcast. No, I'm just kidding. But, you know, there are certain songs that are, or extra special and I don't know there's a song called Creatures for

a while that you know was just super fun to play live and just really everybody goes buck wild for but it always changes take me take me through a moment

in time like for example when a song like Amber goes like when the moment when you guys are all together as a band and you and you watch it take off or you see it on MTV or you see the sales on it like take me through a day that like was like was there a moment yeah was it take me through one of the most exciting like moments of like we made it or that holy shit like and everybody together that had to be yeah there's a couple

um first one was when we all moved out from Nebraska and lived in van eyes at little house and then our first record our first single k rock which was it's still a very important station, but it was the kingmaker at that time in the early 90s. And they played our song. And the disc jockey said, can you believe it? This band is from Nebraska. We need to all move to Nebraska. This is how music sounds from Nebraska.

Were you guys all sitting around together? Yeah. Oh, really? Because they don't tell you. It's like a surprise. Did you create a scene in Nebraska that was like, notable? Yeah, yeah, we were... Really? That's awesome.

Crazy shows of people going wild with the mashing and the stage diving and everything. So it was, it was like, our very first gig was opening for the band Fugazi, which is... Oh, I love Fugazi. Yeah, so it really was like a perfect launching pad. A lot of bands have to suffer through, like, nobody's showing up. Like, we hit the ground running because of that. And then another big moment was when in mid-noughties they had buzz clips on MTV. And that meant this is the song that everybody's buzzing about. Oh, right.

When Down got a buzz clip. Yeah, that took off. It was on every hour. And then you saw the shows get way bigger. And also the audience get a lot younger because MTV viewers. And then you had a lot of people that were like, now there's all these kids at your show. And I'm like, good.

We want that. They will be with us for a long time. And, you know, like, I wanted to have people feel about 3-Eleven the way I felt about the clash. Are you still connecting right now with the youth and, like, getting new people kind of interested in us? Yeah, I mean, Amber and Love Song and Champaign, kind of the softer stuff has really appealed to teens for some reason.

Usually it's like the teens like the hard shit. But now it's coming back. It's a little different. You know what's interesting because I noticed this with my kid, because I have four kids, and I know this with my teenage, my teenager, I think it's because of the internet and YouTube. Their breadth and scope of music is so vast.

Like I grew up in the 90s, and it's like you either like this or you're like that. Yeah, you're in a category. And there were some kids that liked, you know, music that spanned decades. It was rare. But now it's like my daughter will be playing music and I'm like,

that's from the 80s. Oh my God, I grew up but listen to that and that's new. I don't even know what that is. So I would imagine you guys are probably seeing that with like kids that are like

oh, I just discovered you guys. Like yeah, we've been around for a while. Well, yeah, and now my daughters are wearing the baggy pants that we wore in the podcast. You were just talking about that the other day. The Jenko's or what?

Super baggy jeans are all back in style again. How many kids do you have? Three daughters. Three daughters? What's that like being a dad? It's the most rewarding and challenging, but most rewarding gig in the world.

You know what I mean? Like you get more the feels from taking care of a baby than anything else. How old are they? 11, 14, 16. Are they into music too? Oh, yeah. Nice.

So you got, hold on a second. You got like two teenagers and one almost teenage daughter. You got three teenage girls under six. And a wife. So it's four on a second. Four on one, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

So that's why you're still doing tours. You got to hang with the homies. I got to go out of house, dude, and do a tour for a month. That's your golf. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, I mean, but they love their dad so much. And it's like, it's so, so to come home to that, you know.

And so it is tough to leave. Like, it's just a power shift. shift, you know, because I'm the benevolent sheriff when I'm home. Like, I'm the one that's like, hey, can it be on time, you know, get up your room, that kind of stuff. Are you so hard to be cool to your teenage kids? Are you, do they think you're cool? Or is it like when you run into fans like, oh, I got it? Are they like, oh, dad?

Yeah. They enjoy it. I mean, maybe it's because we're lucky enough that there's such a 90s resurgent that their friends think it's really cool. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So that fits right in with the style. That's really cool. When you,

the moments, right, like you were talking about that, that were huge, that in that moment, like, who do you pick up and call first and why? My dad comes first. Like he,

my first love was his stack of 45s from the 50s than I listened to when I was like five years old. And, you know, he taught me so much about, rock and roll culture. You know, he was a teenager in the late 50s when the time of Buddy Holly and Elvis and Chuck Berry and everything. So I could identify what the difference between a 56 Chevy and a 57 Chevy and the whole car rock and roll culture kind of things. And he was just so supportive, you know,

buying me guitars and driving me around to, you know, we'd go on camping trips. and go in the thrifts, the pawn shops and buy guitars and stuff like that. So, you know, but my mom too, but like my dad was the rock and roll guy. So he's probably the first. So that had been probably one of the cool moments too, like maybe the first like big concert to have dad at was I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah.

And we're back in Omaha and we'll play. I'll be like, there's my dad right over there. He's 86 and he's walking out with us. That's so awesome. So what's your first big purchase when you, when you started making it? Right when we got signed, I got a 69 Lincoln Continental.

I just needed to have the suicide doors. You know, put a huge subwifor that you could hear down the block. Yes. That was, you got like a very metallic gold paint with lots of sparkle in it. You still have it?

No. No. No. No. What? Wait, it caught fire? What happened?

Just oil leak in the engine caught fire. Oh, that sucks. Okay, this thing's done. Oh, that's such huge. You have a favorite place you like to play? Because you've been all over. Do you have like a place that you love going back to? Is it home?

We have great shows in Omaha. But as far as like a venue, Red Rocks comes to mind. We've played there like 18 times. And it's just a magical place. That's Colorado, right? Yeah, yeah. Colorado is. I've never actually

I hear it's amazing yeah you gotta go you gotta tell me though about Shaq and how you guys got connected to him

and how you he sang a song with you and all this stuff during like his the height of him on the lake please tell me he's one of the ones that you really like

oh yeah I love Shaq I'm a big Shaquille O'Neal I mean it's just you're talking about I'm a big Shaquille O'Neal fan so

I have one of his shoes oh you do yeah you have to share some Shaq stories because I tell these guys all the time about he's one of those he's his heart is so big and he doesn't get credit for a lot of things he does he doesn't put it out there very much and so no great great guy um so we around the time of the um from chaos album we were a good buddy of ours was had a label that shack was doing a rap album on and he was like I want to do one rock song.

And so he was, but he was like 3-11, could do that for you. So we collaborated on a song called Psycho. And then when we were going to do our video for the song, you wouldn't believe, we asked if Shaq would come and appear in the video. And first of all,

he was like, okay, if I do it, it has to be secret because we're in the middle of the NBA playoffs. Yeah, right now. And we were going to play some pickup and you can see in the video. Oh, he would be in trouble for that for sure. Yeah.

And he showed up. He said at the end of the day, he said, if you tell anybody about this, I'll sue you. So I'm risking suit by telling the story. He showed up with two left shoes. He just grabbed two shoes. So they don't really show his feet in the video because he was wearing legs. Yeah, nobody's got a pair of those sides. Yeah, like 22s or something.

And the thing was, he was up in his house, which I think was like Sherman Oaks, we were shooting the video down in Long Beach. So we were like, I think we need a charter helicopter in order to get him here in time. But we couldn't make that happen. So he was like, no problem. I got you. And he had this like SUV with a big Superman sticker on the front. And he would just put a siren.

Shut your face. Yes. and he's going through traffic and everyone's moving and we were like what if you get caught for that? He was like, I'm a Laker.

Yeah. Hey, I'm loyalty here. Oh my God. So he just siren down to make our time to the Long Beach. That's great. That's so awesome.

That's awesome. Very cool. So with your, what does your fitness routine look like when you're not touring? I'm assuming it's different. So, like right now, I'm just kind of in a maintenance thing where I'll do, like, what I did today. But I guess, like, if I'm getting ready for a tour, I might do, like, you know, cross-training type, like, F-45 classes to me.

I like the communal nature of everybody high-fiving and just show up and it's different, you know, each time. So I do that. And then I just go through different phases. Sometimes it'll be more about jogging. Where I live in Topanga is just nothing but wilderness around there. So there's tons of trails. So I'll do some running. Sometimes I'll go heavier on the weights.

And other times I'll just be doing kind of a maintenance thing where I just make sure I hit every muscle and wake it up. What are nutritional habits like for you? You know, I'm just back to. to full spectrum eating. There was a while when I was keto. There was a while that I tried vegan, but I just had to eat so much when I could not get full as a vegan.

So I'm back to just eating full spectrum, you know, try and steer away from the bad stuff. Favorite, favorite bad food? I had a wonderful Five Guysburger yesterday. Oh, yeah. That's good stuff. That's a good bad food. That's not really good bad food.

That makes us way in my diet all the time. Well, good deal, man. Yeah, this is a lot of fun. I appreciate you coming on, man. I hope you have a great show tonight in Felton. Yeah, looking forward to it. See, Justin, make sure you razz him out there for sure. I'll be moshing everybody.

Yeah, he'll be the idiot. He'll definitely be the idiot. Bluegrass. Bluegrass. I know, I know. I'll contain myself. He'll mosh anything. Yeah, I just do it.

That's practically. No, but I appreciate it coming on, man. Yeah, I hope you guys have a great show tonight. Yeah, this was fun. We got into a lot of cool stuff I haven't talked about before. So that's awesome. Oh, good. Hey.

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