Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2904: How to Reverse Osteoporosis and Osteopenia (The Data-Backed Formula That Actually Works)

Episode Date: July 18, 2026

In this episode the guys break down how to reverse osteopenia and osteoporosis — explaining the difference between the two, why 43% of adults over 50 have low bone mass, and why this is actually very fixable. They cover the four key steps: getting stronger (not just lifting weights), eating enough to build, taking key nutrients like calcium, vitamin D and magnesium, and being consistent because bone adapts more slowly than muscle. They also discuss why GLP-1 users are showing up with osteopenia and why it's not the drug's fault, Sal's experience with Rho Nutrition's liposomal curcumin and why it's dramatically reducing his jiu jitsu inflammation, Adam's deep dive into the solar panel scam with PG&E buying his energy at $0.08 and selling it back at $0.48, creatine accelerating recovery from brain injuries and concussions in kids, protein Doritos macro breakdown, noninvasive brain stimulation improving explosive power, AI agents buying robot dogs for themselves, and whether Dune or Star Wars came first. Then they coach live callers submitted through mplivecaller.com.   MAPS Upper Lower:  https://mapsupperlower.com Code: LAUNCH for 40% off. Male and female programs, workout videos, exercise demos and live coaching with Cole.   Mind Pump Fitness Coaching:  https://mindpumpfitnesscoaching.com 1.9 NASM CEUs   SPONSORS   Rho Nutrition (liposomal curcumin, NAD+ and Glutathione):  https://www.rhonutrition.com/discount/MINDPUMP Code: MINDPUMP for 20% off everything. Sal discusses the liposomal curcumin on air — dramatic reduction in jiu jitsu inflammation within 4 days. Liposomal delivery is the key difference.   Zbiotics Pre-Alcohol:  https://zbiotics.com/MINDPUMP26 Code: MINDPUMP26 for 15% off first purchase. World's first genetically engineered probiotic. Breaks down acetaldehyde in the gut before it causes issues. Discussed on air — now available at Bev Mo.   Butcher Box:  https://butcherbox.com/mindpump No code needed. Free ribeyes for a year, or free ground beef or chicken breasts in every order for life, plus $20 off first box.   LINKS Submit a live caller question:  https://mplivecaller.com Mind Pump Store:  https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products:  https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia 0:00 - Intro 2:14 - How to reverse osteopenia and osteoporosis — why it's more fixable than people think 4:55 - Who gets this — not just the elderly, also fit people who under-eat 12:11 - Step 1: Get stronger — why lifting weights without getting stronger does nothing for bones 15:46 - Step 2: Eat to build — why GLP-1 users are showing up with osteopenia and why it's not the drug's fault 20:00 - Step 3: Key nutrients — calcium, vitamin D and magnesium and why supplements alone won't fix it 22:27 - Step 4: Be consistent — bones adapt slower than muscle, 1-2% gain per year is a big win 24:13 - Rho Nutrition liposomal curcumin — Sal's jiu jitsu inflammation gone in 4 days 26:35 - Adam's solar panel PG&E rage — buying energy at $0.08 and selling it back at $0.48 43:27 - Creatine and brain injury recovery — children's concussion study shows dramatic improvement 47:33 - Protein Doritos macro breakdown and the creatine cereal prediction 51:38 - Noninvasive brain stimulation improves explosive power — no exercise required 56:01 - AI agents buying robot dogs for themselves — Tony Robbins story 59:24 - Did Dune or Star Wars come first? The sci fi rabbit hole 1:03:03 - Caller: Derek (California) 60 day check-in — 5 pounds gained, bench up 30 pounds, gets MAPS Upper Lower 1:16:18 - Caller: Beth (Georgia) — 59-year-old NFL exec, too lean, over-exercising, needs to eat more and slow down 1:30:31 - Caller: Liz (Ohio) — Birthday caller, bike tripper, wants to gain muscle, gets Muscle Mommy 1:43:08 - Caller: Kimberly (Minnesota) — professor, runner, feels bulky on top, gets coaching referral  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded Fitness Health and Entertainment podcast approaching over half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we answered live callers questions. So people called in, we got to coach them on air.

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Today, I talked about their anti-inflammatory supplement curcumin and resveritrol. And like all Roe supplements, they use medical grade liposomal technology for delivery. You guys, I've been using this stuff for far. five days. I have way less inflammation in my joints that I started getting because I went back to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. This stuff really works. Go to rownutrition.com. That's R-H-O-Nutrition.com slash discount slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought to by Z biotic. So this is a probiotic that's been genetically modified to break down one of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption, acetaldehyde. So you drink this, then you drink like you

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why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpump store.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, today we're going to talk about how you can strengthen your bones,

what the data says, and what really works. In fact, it works almost every time. Reverse osteopenia and osteoporosis. Get started now. Let's go. I don't know what a problem did you for. this, but I know we've had some

callers. We've I know we've had some clients that we've helped over here recently and that I think we're really unaware because they were fit people. You see this. I think it's, I think there's an obvious group of people that everybody kind of assumes

right away. They think of this like elderly population that is inactive, doesn't eat really well and frail. And so I think when you hear osteoprino osteoporosis, you automatically go that direction. But there's actually a good percentage

that also fall in the fitness category. And this looks really different. In fact, it's hard to spot for the average person. You might see somebody, and I've seen this as young as in early 30s, all the way up to 40, 50-year-old, typically female clients of mine who are ripped and literally.

lift weights and count their macros and train three to five strength train three to five days a week and they look amazing. But they have been under calorie for so long. So I'm glad you said that. So we're going to get to all of that. But I'm glad you said that because there is this myth, this belief that osteoporosis osteopenia is inevitable. If you get it, it's because you have genetics that cause you to get it. And stuff like what you said would actually enforce that idea. What are you talking about? I know this person over here works out all the time. And they have osteopheny. It's obviously something that you can't fix or reverse. The causes are genetic. Not true. Now, there are genetic, you know, predispositions to everything. But osteopheny and osteoporosis

is not inevitable. There are things that cause it that are very clear. And there are very clear ways. data-driven and backed ways, and also based on our experience, I've worked with a lot of people in this case, where you could slow it down, stop it, and reverse it. I do think it's important that we differentiate the difference between osteopenia and osteoporosis. So both of them, you have a loss of bone mineral density.

Osteophenia, you're getting two osteoporosis. So osteophenia is like a warning. It's like a warning. It's like pre-diabetes. Like, okay, listen, we don't reverse course here. You're going to be an osteoporosis. osteoporosis, you're already in a category now where you have some issues with bone density. I have some data on both, just so people know how prevalent this is.

So we'll start with osteopenia, which is just low bone mass. 43% of adults age 50 plus have osteopinia. Almost half. 43%. By gender, it's half of women in about one third of men. Okay, so women do suffer from it at higher rates. But still, one-third of men will suffer from it. And it's typically after the age of 50 and definitely after the age of 65 is when this happened.

How common is it in obese people relative to people that are underweight? That's a good question. Interesting to see that ratio. It's actually pretty similar. Yeah, we used to think that being obese meant that it protected you from low bone mass and low muscle mass, but that's not the case. So those MRIs came out. Yeah. Yeah. Now, frailty, so when people think of osteoporosis, they think of the really frail older person. Yes, yeah. That's why I asked that. But that's, that's when the osteoporosis is really, really bad. That's when it's really bad. But before it got

there, they looked like your normal person, moving around, maybe not active, but you do a bone scan. It's like, uh-oh, we have some issues going on. Now osteoporosis, over 12% of adults aged 50 plus. So by gender, 19% of women, 4% of men, and over 65, it gets much higher, 17%. So 12%, let's look at this, 19% of women have osteoporosis. That's almost 2 out of 10. And then osteopenia, what did I say, half? Half, almost. Okay, so why is it a big deal?

Before we get into how you can reverse this on what the data says, why is this a big deal? This is a major risk for mortality. Yeah. when you look at the data on what happens as we get older and how does our health decline rapidly, you know, what is it, when somebody dies typically,

it's not this huge major, like out of nowhere event. Typically you look at someone's life, it's like the last two years of the life, really suck, like what's going on there? Typically an injury. It's an injury,

yeah. And then usually, what would they say if you like break a hip? Fall and break your hip, dying pneumonia. That's right. That's a saying. Yeah.

Yeah, it just kind of creates this spiral. pattern. That's right. With the rest of your health. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the explanation to that is that you're so frail, you're so weak, you fall and you break your hip. Your body is, it doesn't have the resources to fix it. And then all it takes is getting pneumonia in that state when it's working so hard to try

and repair and heal this broken hip. And then pneumonia hits you. And then all of a sudden it's just like, we can't handle all that. Yeah. So they use pneumonia in that saying. But really it means if you break your hip, you die of, of anything at a much higher rate. Right.

So anytime you break a bone, you're just very vulnerable. You're immobile. You have to heal. There's a, it's catabolic on the body. It's a stress on the body. Surgery is a stress on the body. The stronger and the better vitality you have,

the easier time you have recovering. If you're getting older and you're already frail and you've already got bone mass issues and you already have not that great immobility, and then you break something and you're immobile, health declines very rapidly. By the way, the data shows, it's not just your body's health,

your brain's health as well. Dementia rate goes up dramatically. You get depression, anxiety. So you don't want to break anything. You don't want to become injured because your bones are weak as you get older. So that's kind of what's happening, and it's a lot of people.

It's a lot of people that have this particular issue. Now, that's the bad news. The good news is this. It is very treatable. This is one of those things. where it's like, if you do these things, the odds that you will slow down, pause, and probably reverse bone mass losses is high. So this is like, you can fix this, you guys, but you got to do the things that we're

going to talk about. Yeah, well, I'd like to get into a little bit, though, like, if they're going to go to the doctor, like, what does that protocol look like? Because I know for a while there, they would just put them on medications, like Phosomax or, yeah, like some calcium substance. So doctors will recommend a lot of what we're about to talk about. The problem is doctors are not coaches, trainers, and nutritionists. Right.

So doctors will typically say, hey, here's the things you probably should do more of, but there's no coaching involved. Well, what does that look like? Well, I kind of don't know. Or here's what the recommendations look like, kind of general. And then there's medications that they may recommend. I wonder what the success rate is of that. Not great.

Yeah, no, I'm curious. great. Right. I mean, just imagine that. How good are doctors in treating obesity? I mean, just imagine, you know, you got to this place because of most likely malnutritioned, not taking care of your body, not lifting weights, not doing those things. You're probably most often advanced age.

Go to the doctor and they tell you this. And he says, do this, do that, do this. And see you on your way. like the likelihood that that person makes all those changes and then also does it correctly. Because that's the other part, I think, of this. There's also just this perception that this is kind of inevitable. You know. Yeah.

You live at your age and you're like, okay. In fact, in fact, I can find articles right now where it's almost like, well, you really can't do much about this or here's some of the things you can do, but it doesn't do much, which is not true. The data, there's really good data on this, everybody. you can find it. This is something that you can definitely do something about. And it's not a lot of crazy stuff. It's really just being consistent in the things that we're about to talk about. And what you find in older populations that do all the things that we're talking about,

their bone density is amazing. They've got the bones of 20-year-olds when you find a 7-year-old that's doing all of these things. So this is totally, this is a process of adaptation, everybody. So if you, as you age, if you don't give your body a reason to remain strong or resilient, it slowly becomes less resilient and it slowly becomes weaker. So you see muscle mass loss, strength loss, mobility loss, and bone mass loss. But if you do the things we're going to talk about, you will halt that all from happening in dramatic ways, dramatic ways.

So we'll talk about the first one, which is get stronger. Now, I didn't put lift weights here because, yes, you'd need to lift weights. But sometimes when I say lift weights, people just lift weights and don't realize that if they're not getting stronger, they're not going to get the benefits from the lifting weights. So they'll lift weights either in a circuit fashion or they'll use the same five-pound dumbbells all the time because here I'm lifting weights. But the signal that is, the adaptation that is telling you, we're moving in the right direction and everybody is strength.

So when you're lifting weights, the goal is to lift weights to get stronger. If you're getting stronger, your bones are going to get stronger. Yep. Okay. Now, it's not a one-to-one correlation, but it's the best objective measure we have

because some strength gains come from just your central nervous system firing better, but what's downstream of that are muscles are pulling harder on the ligaments and tendons, on the tendons, which pull harder on the bones,

the bone strengthened as a result. So if you're going to lift weights, the idea is to get stronger. If you're lifting weights and you're not getting stronger, either because you're doing circuit training, you're not doing traditional strength training or you're using the same weight all the time,

you're doing very little in terms of improving your bone mass density. Right, and this is in the context of somebody who is, we're trying to reverse osteopino osteoporosis, right? If you or somebody who is listening to this and you're like, I just want to do things preventative, that might look like just maintaining strength. Let's say you have somebody who's doing.

Like you already lift weights? Yeah, you're fine. And have gotten strong, right? Let's say you've gotten two times your body weight and squatting and deadlifting and all those great lifts. And you don't have this. You just maintain. You're good. And you're going to be good.

You're good. But if you're listening to you. So what this looks like is traditional strength training. This is what gets you stronger. So this is what it looks like. You do a set of so many reps, eight reps or 10 reps. It's challenging. So the reps that you do, you can maybe do two more if you squeeze out as much as you can, but you don't.

Don't you stop two reps, two reps short of that. That's the intensity that you're chasing. And then you rest for two minutes. Not because you have to rest, but because this is how you get strength. This is how you build strength. You rest for two to three minutes and then you repeat the set again. Now you want to do exercises that are appropriate. And I don't care, you don't have to do that anything stronger.

Getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction. So just give an example. When I would train people in advanced age, you know, 70, 80 years old, They'd never strength trained before. They'd come to me with osteopeno, osteoporosis. Here's an example of how they would get stronger. It's a very classic example. They'd come in.

I'd do my assessment. I'd have them sit in a chair and try to stand up. And if they could do that without their hands, that became our exercise. Okay, we're going to sit down and stand up and I'm going to watch your form. It looks like, ooh, eight reps. Looks like maybe one more we can do, but we're going to rest. We'll sit here and rest. That's your squats.

That's the exercise. It's so functional, too, for their everyday life. They're always going to be looking for a chair or couch or whatever, like even the toilet. And it's like, you know, to strengthen that pattern, you know, definitely benefits their life. Yeah, and I'm going to say this. Your strength gains will come just as quickly as a percentage of your overall strength as they do for a 20-year-old. That's what the data shows. It's very clear.

Your ultimate potential is different than a 20-year-old. But you'll see yourself get stronger relatively consistently, especially the first year that you're doing this. So I would get a client, I'm just, again, I'm giving you examples of actual people I worked with who could maybe sit down and stand up five times. Two months later, 20. Yeah. Like that's how dramatic of a difference over a two-month period that they'd get that strength. By the way, how often should I strength train two days a week? That's it?

Two days a week, you're fine. Two days a week is enough to make this happen. Number two, and here's now pointing to what Adam was talking about. Because he mentioned, what about the people that strength train all the time and still have bone mass issues? Here's the problem. They're eating too little. So you see this a lot in the fitness space. This is kind of an orthorexic eating disorder type where they count everything.

They're so afraid of getting any ounce of body fat. They do all the right things in the workout, but they're constantly under eating, which will cause your bones to weaken. If you're trying to get stronger, you need to fuel the strength gains. You need to fuel the muscle gain, which means you got to eat enough to do it, especially protein. and or over training. So it looks like that sometimes.

Burning out. Right, because somebody might be like, well, I eat a good amount of calories, but not relative to the amount of training that they're doing, right? So they are training six days a week intensely, plus they go on bike rides and marathon running and all kinds of, and then they do all these things to maintain that body fat percentage, or they intentionally walk 20,000 steps every single day

to keep their calorie burn up and movement up. And so even though they may not be what the average person may think is a dangerously low place of calories, say 23, 2,400 calories, but then their activity level and their amount of training they're doing is so high that this happens also. So it can be a combination or just one by itself. So it could be just grossly under eating for a very long period of time and still strength training. Or it can be both under eating and many times in these fitness people, like the orthorexic ones, it looks like that. looks like both. It looks like... Too much exercise and not enough food. Yeah, too much exercise and not enough food. It results in this...

I mean, this is the alarm for me with, you know, the GLP ones. 100%. Yeah. And I just talked about this little Courtney's friends just recently because she's pretty fit. And then like went through like basically a year of like messing around with GLP ones and, you know, shaving a lot of weight off, but was still maintaining a lot of exercise, but was just not eating, barely eating, like enough calories to sustain, you know, what she was doing. So, yeah, the osteopenia came in. I'm glad you said that because there's, you're seeing articles now where people are, oh my God, I was on a GLP for a year or two years.

Now I'm an osteopinia. What happened? The GLP doesn't cause bone weakening. It has nothing to do with that. It's that they're eating so little that you will lose, just like muscle mass. If you lose muscle mass, you'll lose, if you lose muscle mass, you're at, you're, risk of losing bone mass. Yep.

Okay. Bone and muscle are very closely connected. Muscles get stronger and build. Bones get stronger and build. Muscles get weaker and you lose them. Bones tend to get weaker and you lose them. They're very, very closely connected. So if you're eating properly and strength training properly, what you will see are

strength gains with your exercises, whether it be your squats or your presses or your rows or whatever the exercises you're doing, you'll see strength gains. and you have to fuel that with the right amount of food and protein. Otherwise, it's just not going to happen. You know, this is one of the things that I love about what the Dexas scan does do, that it does show a bone density test. You know, traditionally as trainers, we always just did, you know, body fat calipers or the duct tape.

You had no way of testing it. Yeah, we did not test bone density, and the Dexas scan actually does bone density. And so you can take, and I like that a lot because you have some, and I've seen this in young 20, 30-year-old female, clients that are especially this is common you see this in like the bikini world like bikini competitors that are used to really hardcore dieting and lots of cardio but they strength train and they have muscles and they have they look to the average person but their bone density is really

especially for their age is extremely low um this can highlight like that you've been you've been teetering in that direction already and you know hopefully seeing that at a young enough age can course correct before you get into a dangerous i'll tell you i'll say this again uh The strength training protocol is a couple days a week and eat to build for somebody who actually has osteopinia. Osteoporosis are getting close to osteopenia. That's the formula. That's it. No more than that.

In fact, we have a program that if you're listening and you've never done strength training, map starter. Follow that. And then you'll get stronger at the lifts. Eat to build and watch what happens. Now, the third thing that we're going to talk about has to do with nutrients. Too much emphasis has been placed here. I'm going to be quite honest. So you need key, you need appropriate amounts of key nutrients for bone strength, calcium,

vitamin D, and magnesium. Those are important for bone strength. And they are, a majority of people osteopenia, osteoporosis, are deficient in those key nutrients. However, by themselves, they do not cause osteopheny and osteoporide, unless you're so deficient that you're in like disease state. Just supplementing isn't going to solve. No, no, it won't. So that's why I want to go with that

because people are like, oh, stronger bones. And it's less about those individual nutrients. And it's more that you're so low on calories that that happens. That's part of it. That's part of it. But also, these nutrients definitely aren't part of the building strengthening bone.

But here's what happens. I'm sedentary. I don't do any strength training. Oh, I know. I'll just take vitamin D and calcium. It's not going to do much. No. You still need the signal.

Your body still needs a reason to strengthen its bones. You need to give it adequate calories and macronutrients like protein and essential fats to help build the bone. And then you need the micronutrients to make that happen. So there's a correlation. But by themselves, I'm going to tell you right now, it will not fix your problem. Well, it's the same way I think you've already, you've tied it together already nicely with bone and muscle. It will be like somebody who has lost muscle and they no longer want to lose more muscle.

And they go, oh, I was under-eating protein, so I'm just going to eat more protein. But you don't do it. But there's no strength training. I mean, there's no... We'll do very little. Yeah, you'll do very little. You might slow down where you're at currently and not lose any more muscle than you have. So you might slow down the process of the losing bone.

But if you don't give it a reason to grow and build, then the likelihood that you're going to reverse it or completely stop it is very unlikely. That's right. But yes, yes, if you're strength training and you're eating properly, you want to make sure you're taking or you have adequate vitamin D, calcium, magnesium, which are very important. And they're commonly... I mean, it's common to have people not have optimal amounts of those, especially vitamin D. And then lastly, it's very important. Be consistent. Building muscle takes a long time.

Building bone takes a longer time. It takes a long time. In the data where people are strength training. What's the ratio with that, yeah. Well, here's what you see. You see the bone loss stop or it slows down and stops. And then a year later, we see an increase about 1%, sometimes 2%. So it takes a while.

Yeah. So building muscle is, takes a while. We just had a recent client that was suffering this, and she shared her test. I think it was 1 or 2% in the year. Which is good. I don't think she realized how good it was. I think it was a little bit more than that. It was like a phenomenal, but sounded so low to her.

Like, oh, my God, I only moved this much percent. And I was like, oh, my God, that's in one year's time, that's huge. I just want to say this. Like, you know, when I had clients come to me with certain situations that they were order to work on. Some of them I would, I would be more difficult for me than others. This one right here, I felt so confident. Somebody comes to osteopenia, osteoporosis, but I'm willing to come in and work out with you twice a week and I'll, I'll eat the way you tell me. Fixed. Nope. Listen, it's going to be fixed. It does resolve. It's just a matter of time. It's just a matter of time. Consistency wise is the

big time. I've had so many doctors call me and say, what are you doing with Linda? I can't Like, what, her bone mass has increased, like, what are you guys doing? I'm like, we're lifting weights. How many days a week? Once a week. What are you doing? Three exercises. And the doctor's just like, what?

I know. Like, no, we're just getting stronger. And then I'd share the numbers. Like, Linda could barely do a wall pushup. Now she's doing pushups off her knees on the ground. Like, it's just, she's just stronger. And it works. So it works, everybody, but you guys stay consistent.

Because, you know, if, let's say you gain five pounds of muscle in six months, which would be phenomenal. it's much slower to build bones. You just got to be very, very consistent with what you're doing. Anyway, kind of along those lines with nutrients and stuff, dude, I got to just brag on one of these supplements from Roe Nutrition. Okay. So Roe, for people listening, they make,

they supplement company, but they have this kind of medical grade delivery technology called liposomal. So it makes everything much more bioavailable and easy to digest and all that stuff. Anyway, they have a curcumin resveratrol, product, which is really good for inflammation. And you guys know I've been doing jujitsu. Yeah. And, you know, inflammation in my joints and connective tissue because I'm not used to

move in that way. And so I started taking this twice a day about four days ago. Whoa. What a difference. Do you take it proactively, like before you do it? Or does it just every day? Every day. And something like that, does it matter the timing of it in relation to the training and

the possible inflammation? Or is it just being in your system? Probably, I'm a guess. It's probably better to have it around, but I just using it daily. Because what it does is it helps produce a natural inflammatory, excuse me, a healthy, natural inflammatory process. So it's not like blocking inflammation. So it's like an adaptogen then?

No. No. Curcumin just has this kind of really nice anti-inflammatory effects, but it's not like an insid where it's going to hammer your inflammation down so much that you're going to stop recovery and stuff like that. So, and it's healthy. It's got lots of other. properties for longevity. And I've known this. I've used it before. But, you know, curcumin,

especially because it's liposomal, it's a fat, soluble compound. Doug just pulled it up right now. It works on the more electrical level by blocking NFKB, a molecule that travels into the nuclearized cells and turns on. That sounds very adaptogen-like. Not quite. I mean, it doesn't say it's an adaptogen, but that's kind of how an adaptogen works, right? Yeah, adaptogens are interesting. Adaptogens help make your body resilient to stress. I guess you could say that's part of what an adapted jugs, but this is really just an anti-inflammatory. So here's the thing with curcumin,

which is one of the, it's one of the active compounds in turmeric. You got to take it with a fat. You don't absorb much unless it's just with a fat. So liposomes are little fats. Yeah. And so I've been using this. I can't see a lot of people aren't doing that. Bro, I've used curcumin in the past when I did jiu-tibu before. That's why when I saw the button, yeah, let me try to, this is the best one I've ever used.

Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm like four or five days in and, like, dramatic difference. I wonder if it's the delivery system that is why you notice the biggest gotta be, dude. Yeah, it feels great. That's cool. I was gonna ask you, Adam, about, you have this, like, green energy.

Oh, bro. What's going on? You got out of a rabbit hole recently, or what? I am, bro. I think I've mentioned it a little bit on the podcast. I don't know.

I definitely have mentioned to you guys off air. I think we've talked about it. I have solar. And I have quite a few panels. I think I have 27 panels. So I have plenty. That's a lot. And it's paid off solar, right?

So I don't have any extra, like, bill or you know. So you're throwing it. Yeah. So, you know. Thanks for considering the environment, by the way. Well, it's, I can't take the credit. I bought the house with it already on, right and done. So, but was like super excited about that.

Like, oh, yeah, I'm going to save a bunch on my electricity bill, right? And, you know, Katrina and I are coming up on a little, like, a year and a half or so since we've lived in this house. So I've seen a full cycle of seasons and everything like that. And I chalked the first year up of, I did a lot of experimenting with like running stuff like crazy. Because I want to see like what's it look like. Yeah, if I don't, if I just don't run it all the time when I want, when I, and I heat the pole and all the things. And so, you know, after I came like through a full year of that, I go, okay, well, this is my year of like trying to be managing and be a little more responsive. And as I've been doing that for like the last six months, I'm not seeming to make any sort of an impact.

And so I'm getting really frustrated. So it's a big difference. Yeah. So it's like. I don't feel like I'm saving any money on having all these solar panels. These are like normal electricity bills that I've always had. And they do it differently. So the way I get is like my electricity bill comes in and it is actually very, very low or modest, right?

So there's a difference there. But that's because the way solar bills is they have a true up, which they hit you every six months and they go, oh, this is what you used off the grid. So the way it works is why the sun is out and it's making electricity on your solar. panels, you pull from that solar and you use it. So all day long, especially in the summertime, we have long days. And I'm running AC and stuff like that. My, I pull from that solar. Now, for some reason, let's say I wasn't home or I didn't run it very much, then any additional solar that I generate to the grid, they, they buy from me. They buy. Sounds great. Right. Sounds awesome. PG&E buys us from me. And then, and then when it goes dark, and I'm no longer using the solar,

I now need to Now you're pulling from the grid Not got to buy back from them basically Right Okay so I'm like So I get how this kind of works And so I'm so like So I should be making over

And I still should be Why am I still not saving a lot? Well so I do all this digging I go through the contracts and read I'm on YouTube like crazy final I'm like boy is this a scam And I have to Okay so when when PG&E

Here's all the sun's not reading When and and And I have I apologize because I've only done digging for a day on this. So if I get the kill. Exactly. But you'll get the gist of what I've figured out and the overall math of this. So when I go over and I provide more to the grid,

PG&E buys it for eight cents on the kilowatt. Oh, no, don't tell me, bro. Listen to this. You sell it hell of cheap to them and buy it back expensive. Oh, my God. I sell it to them for eight cents. What? Okay, during whatever over it.

Don't tell me, bro. Yeah. And then when the night comes and I need it, yeah. I buy it back for 48 cents. What? How did they work that out, dude? Wow, dude. Okay.

What? 48 cents. And there's no carryover. A little markup. There's no carryover. So, like, in the summer, when I'm pumping tons of extra, because sun's up all and it's not just myself, by the way, because it goes to the grid. So they sell it back to you.

So hold on. They buy it eight cents and they sell it to everybody else for 48. So you're making them hell of money. Yes. They're making them money. A ton. Yeah. A ton.

So, and by the way, too, I pay an extra monthly fee every month just for them to have a special meter for my solar thing. And on top of it, you got to pay. So I have a guaranteed fee on top of that that I have already in a contract. And then our city that we live in has an additional thing that charges me for being green energy, which is a monthly. They charge you for that? Yes. Yes. Dude.

People are angry. And it's like a hundred bucks. And by the way, it's a hundred bucks. It's like 100 bucks a month. The city has charged me. The meter thing has cost me another $25. You're getting charged $125 to do something that everybody says is good for everybody. That's right.

And that they get to go profit six times off of me on. And then sell me back mine at the going rate. So really what this is. It is the biggest scam. And then again, like I was starting to say, let's say I took the month. Hey, Justin, they pissed off the rug guy. Oh, dude, for real. That's ripped off for getting me.

He'll do the math. I wanted to see your reaction when she saw it was 48 cents. Oh, bro. I bought Chuck my computer. I came down storming down to Sarah's Katrina because I'm like, I was ready to hire consult.

That's a racket. I was getting ready. So why I was doing this is like, let me take one more step because, you know, this was starting to cause rift between me and my wife. I'm not getting upset at my wife. Like, are you got doing this?

Oh, and then by the way, too, PG&E tells you that you should try and do your laundry on these off hours and peak hours. You guys want to know the difference of the peak hours and off hours is? 4 cents. Oh, my God.

So if I do my laundry at midnight or one of the more weird hours that are... I say 4 cents. Instead of it being 48 cents, it's 40... It's 44 cents. So you're not saving...

I mean, you just be like rearranged your whole life to the running the AC at this time and doing your laundry this time all so you could save a dollar. So let me get it, man. Let me try selling this or communicating this. That makes me angry. From PG&E's perspective.

So they're in a meeting right now, right? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, you guys. The thing right now is green. Yeah. Everybody wants to go green. And this is, we're going to sell this, right? Because that's good, right?

Everybody thinks it's good to go green so we can save the earth because that's what we need to do. So here's what we're going to do. Yeah. We're going to convince everybody to get solar panels. And really what it's going to do is give us. Add more energy for a cheap. We're going to get a 40, we're going to get a huge margin on the energy everybody else produces.

Then then we're going to, because we're going to sell it back to them. Yeah. You guys, listen. At a premium. You know what? And then everybody in the, in the meetings, and then, and the, in the meetings, and they're going to, how are we going to get people to fall for that? Yeah. It's good because it's green. Because of polar bears.

And that's how we're going to sell it, you guys. Oh, you should see, what you're saying is so spot on. And they, they have little cartoon ads that are exactly what you're describing right now. if you go to the PG&E website and learn if you're so let's say you're someone who's interested if you're interested in getting solar you know because maybe you are an environment by the way how you're an environment person or you're a person who wants to save money either one but you're you're inquiring and so you go to PG&E and these are the these they're little their little cartoon things of what what you're doing for the world and what how you're going to save all this money because we're done

it is so it is such a racket and look it I how many people do what you do what you do did and actually figure it out. Oh, and not many because I'm sure that it's confusing too, because I'm in a contract too, by the way that binds me on all the way that I have to do this. Because here's the other thing I'm trying to find out. I'm trying to find the loopholes now. So now I'm looking for can I try and hijack my own energy instead of sending it back to the grid and stored in a battery in a battery at my house so I can, so I can decide when I want to pull from my own energy that I'm overproducing and use it at my will. Now I think, I think I'm actually in a contract that does not allow me to do that.

And I sign that when I get those. The energy you're collecting for the solar panels that you own. Yes. On the roof of the house that you own. Where the sun is shining on you, you can't do that. Yeah. You don't actually own it. Yeah.

Wow, dude. Do you guys want to know something crazy? Crazier than that? Yes. They added a tiny tax on tea and it caused the American Revolution. Right. Now we got stuff like that. Yeah.

And people have, just like, whatever. That's just the tip of the iceberg. That is, that's not even, no. That's not even, no. Oh, it's, it's not. It's so on an ethical. And on my mind. It is so on, and man, okay, so I'm, I could not imagine if I actually, uh, had the house first and then I went out and, and paid.

How much of those costs? $30,000, $40,000. Could you imagine if you spent $30,000 to $40,000 to give, to give huge margins. Yeah. And you could look, Doug and Google this right now. On average, what does solar save you on your electricity? bell, $100 to $300 on average. Yeah.

That's nobody has, not in the Bay Area. Does anyone have $100, $300? I mean, most electric, if you have a house that's larger than 2,000 square feet, your electricity bill on average, probably $800. Oh, wow. There's a solar calculator there. What a racket. Such a racket.

And then not to mention, I'm just going to add more. Let's just throw a little. Look at that. $100 to $200 per month. Yeah. Is what, is what you. So it would take you 30 years. Pay off.

your solar fatals, bro. And that's if they continue to, they could decide, like, you know, we're going to change the price and which they have done. So part of what I... And they dictate how much they pay to buy it back. What I've communicated right now has evolved and changed. The people who

paid astronomical prices to have their solar got grandfathered into a little bit better deal and so that. So as it's evolved and changed, they continue to screw you more. So because they've got so many people bought into, this is the way to go. Like the tax benefits, and the rate that they get is it's continuing to change.

And that fee that I was talking about, that was added this year, January. So that's a new fee. They decided to just slide in there. And oh, no one's going to see an extra $25. We're going to charge everybody for just having it. That's so California. Oh, man.

Now let's get you to do insurance. No. You know what the problem with that is? Is that, you know, PG&E is a monopoly. That's why. So the regulations make it impossible to compete. Yeah. So although it's a private company, it's really not.

It's really just the, because, What would be great is if there were competing energy companies. That's right. Who said, hey, you know what? We'll pay you $20. You know, I actually, I'm going to sell you my energy. I was naive. I thought solar was representing like a competitor to your traditional PG&E way of getting energy.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I actually thought. Silly peasant. I totally. I believe. I thought when solar was coming on, it was like, hey, this is better for the environment. This is also an alternative to then going the traditional PG&E route.

But let me ask you this. Don't you feel good inside? That people walk by your house and you look like you... I mean, I just kept... And my poor wife, right? I'm like trying to... I'm trying to lie. I'm over here calling her when I see her open the door for two seconds.

I'm over here like telling her, what are you doing doing laundry right now? You're supposed to do laundry from this time to this time? Like, all to say, four cents. You know what I'm saying? Dude, the latest thing we're fighting is all these like, like, areas they're zoning off for lithium. battery like dumps.

Oh, yeah. They're trying to put them everywhere, dude. And this is all in like areas along the coast where it's really nice and like there's farmland all over. And I told you guys recently about that one that exploded. And this happens quite a bit. And then it gets toxic chemicals just everywhere. What's the logic of of putting lithium, bearing lithium batteries near the ocean?

Because it's going to, they hope it's going to drift out and dissipate? No. God, no. I think there's just, there's just land on there. There's no logic. This is just like, politicians lining their pockets, dude. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Summed up. Just, have you looked into recycling here in the Bay Area? Oh, I know. I know

that's been dead for a long time. I know we haven't been recycling forever. That's it. That's the only thing they actually recycle. Everything else goes in the same area. Because everything's lined with plastic and they're like, well, I can't use that. No, they throw everything in the same garbage. Because we used to sell our, like, cardboard and stuff to China. They stopped

buying it. Yeah, they didn't buy it. So we have all these bins in most places have. It's been California. You have, like, recycling bin. Make sure you're separate. everything goes on the same place. The only thing that they recycle is aluminum. Yeah. That's it. Everything else is garbage.

It's the same thing. It's so crazy that you do all that too. You feel good. You know, hey, there was garbage cans. Where was it? I think it was in Santa Cruz. You know, the garbage cans are like big, and it's like recycling and then waste.

And there's two holes. Yeah. I looked inside. It was the same bag. It was just two holes. Yeah, just feed it into the same thing. It was just two holes. Oh, I feel good.

I'm putting my can. Yeah, dude. I'm like, why they do it? It all doesn't stay back. That sums it up. Right there. Two holes, same place. Wow.

It does sell it up right there. I could, I was just so blown away as I continue to pull the thread. Have you guys watched? That's crazy. I didn't know any of that. Is that not wild or was? When was the last? Yet another thing.

Not since we're on this topic. You remember Inconvenient Truth with Al Gore? Was it Al Gore? Yeah. You guys remember that? I barely remember. So that documentary. kicked off this huge, like, kind of green movement or whatever.

The whole green movement, yeah. With the fear of climate change and oh, my God, this and that. And people get so up in arms about this topic. But I just implore people to watch an inconvenient truth. Now go look at those things he brought up. They made predictions in there that by now, we would have told me. We should have seen it by now. So off.

Yeah. So off. The fear in there that they stirred up. was insane. 2006. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Near-term timelines were overstated or scientifically oversimplified.

You know what's funny about AI? AI is, uh... Yeah, it's, uh, it's not exactly. No, you gotta see what, uh, maybe, maybe Google, Doug, what were the predictions made in, in communication? Well, I remember we were already supposed to be dead. It was like, it was, it was like crazy. The coast wouldn't exist.

Yeah, it's crazy stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I remember. I remember it was like over the top. Somebody told me this once, too. and it made a lot of sense. He said, here's how you know

if they're telling the truth or not. Where do they buy? We're all the rich people buy. Are politicians still buying, you know, beachfront properties and our banks still financing them? Because banks are really good.

Some of the best data collected ever is by banks and insurance companies. They've got it down. They know what percentage they can charge or whatever. Banks won't fund.

Dude, look how hard it was for us to get fire insurance in Tahoe. Because it was legit. Because all it took was a couple fires over the last decade to happen more. And statistically put them at a tiny bit fraction more of a risk. And now all of a sudden, almost impossible to get insurance. It costs a crazy premium to do it. So you're right.

Like if it was really even close to statistically true. You wouldn't be able to get a bank loan. You wouldn't be able to buy a property. The banks to say, no, we're going to lose money. And the banks run everything, right? So that's how you can. 20 foot C level rise. Yeah.

But when did they say the 20 foot sea level rise was going to happen? I think it was like 20. We already passed it. 15 or something. Yeah, yeah. We had already passed the date. I remember we'd already pass the date. And like, none of that stuff. All you need is Sarah McLaughlin and some polar bears and, you know, like shrinking icebergs. And then you have a thing.

By the way, with this, what this points to isn't that, you know, that we shouldn't worry about the environment. We shouldn't worry about keeping the, that's not what we're saying. Well, let's just be consistent. What you need to be, what you need to be careful for is when politicians start to generate lots of fear around something. Yeah. Because they're doing it for their goals. Yeah.

And so I'm always skeptical. Like, wait, I'm a big nature person. And I'm always looking out for, like, company dumping toxic shit. Well, what is one, what is one rocket trip up to space for the Uber rich or one private jet across? Well, the private jet stuff's crazy. Yeah, private jet to, to another country one time when it comes to carbon footprint. Like that one trip is, you can do solar your whole. life and it won't, it wouldn't even

You could ride a horse your whole life and you wouldn't even cover it. That's why that's... That's why I used to love, like Leonardo Caprio, like talking in different countries, you know, about this? It's like, private jet, yacht, private jet, yacht. I'm like, damn, bro. You just did more than a thousand people would do. That's why it's such a... So dumb, dude.

All right, I'm going to change subject here. Cratein. I love Crayteen. We're going to talk about Crayteen again. Have you seen the data on Cratein? We've seen it with brain health, but have you seen it specifically? With like, let me see, I pull it up here, with brain, like, injury. Have you seen this?

Not for injury, uh-uh. It's like preventative or recovery. Yes, bro. People recover from concussions and brain injuries much faster when they're on crating versus when they're not, which is pretty incredible. We should have known that. Yeah. So this was, so this was anxiety, recovery, build muscle, longevity. All quarter wrote done on rats, but we've seen this in humans too.

It's going to be in cereal. It's been a couple of years. Just watch. It'll be, yeah. It's going to be. Actually, there might be creatine cereal already. So check this out. There was an open pilot study with children and adolescents 1 to 18 and creatine.

It improved the duration of post-traumatic amnesia and intubation. The degree of disability of disability, of disability, cognitive function, self-care, communication, locomotion, and social ability. Reduced headaches, dizziness, and fatigue. No adverse effects at all. There was a study on rats where they gave them a brain injury, essentially, 36 to 50% reduced cortical damage. Wow. Because of creatine.

And the process is it attenuates secondary injury mechanism. So mitochondrial dysfunction, lactate accumulation, oxidative damage, and it improves outcomes in hypoxia models relevant to brain trauma. So it's not a cure-all, but if you're listening, you're a parent. And your kid plays a contact sport? Any high contact sport. Cratey. It's not just going to improve the performance. Yeah, just keeping along.

They'll help with their brain health. Isn't that cool? That is cool. It's the best accidental thing I've ever done my life. Because I wanted to get jacked. I've been taking it long stops since I was 16. I mean, what do you think about that prediction, though? Creeteen cereal.

I think it's going to be everywhere, dude. Sure. I think it's bad. You know what? The way you predicted protein years back that that was going to be the next thing. And we saw it. We see it ever, protein Doritos now. The most comical one of all of all.

of them. It has to be the most comical one I've seen yet. Have you seen anyone more funny than that? The protein Doritos? In protein Doritos? How much protein isn't a protein? It's going to be like protein popcorn. Look it up, Doug.

I actually haven't looked at the bag macros because I think that's hilarious. There's a protein shortage, you know, you guys, I told you guys about this. Yeah, you said that. So how much protein is in protein burritos? 10 grams per serving. Let me see what a serving is. Well, I guess that's more than one. It's probably a bag, Doug.

It's probably a small bag or whatever. I'd be impressive if it's more than that. Oh, is it two servings in there or three? No, let me see. One. It's one. I'm looking for the protein. It's right there.

It's the nutrients. I can see it from here. Is this the right one, though? Is that for protein? Not sure. Yeah. Well. Oh, great.

I mean, it tells you the serving size at least. Yeah. I think it's for a small bag. Yeah, that's the wrong one. Yeah. Why don't you go back, Doug, and put in protein Doritos macros. Yeah. Okay.

And then you can look at images and see for yourself. Nutrition facts. Here we are. And so I think what. we're going to see, there we go. So 150 calories, 10 grams of protein. No, no, no, no. Slide up, slide up.

Slide up. It says serving per bag. You need to read that. Yeah. It says seven servings per bag. That's a big bag. That's 10 chips. 10 chips?

10 chips. 10 chips? So one gram of protein per chip. That's okay. No, that's not right. That's what it says. What's the, what's the ingredients? I wonder where they get the protein.

Yeah, but that says seven servings. That would mean there's 70 grams of protein in that bag. It would be, it's the big, big family bag. is what they're talking about. Hey, all the meatheads listening right now. Yeah. I'm like a bag of two. I would have done that.

I would have done that too. 18-year-old meat cheese on there. Yeah, dude, what are you eating over there? Chips. I wonder what the ingredients. It's probably pea protein. Or is it milk protein? Peacine, milk protein.

Oh, it's got to be, yeah, because it's nacho. Well, there you go, guys. Proteins and everything now. Dorita. So 70 grams in the big, so what? Did you figure out the little bag? though? What's the little bag? I think probably one serving. It's 150 calories. It's probably one.

Probably, yeah. Which isn't bad. I wonder what they taste like. If they taste good. They try them. Yeah. I don't think you guys are reading it. Yeah. What's your favorite flavor? The experiment with that. Do you like co? No. Nacho. I'm, yeah, nach guy. You know what I tried? Oh, no, the taco. Have you tried that one? The roll?

They're like rolled up? I don't know, but it's like a taco seasoning. Yeah, so there's one. They're like Doritos, but they're like little... Like the Taco Bell seasoning ones? It's, yeah, it's like, I don't know. All the bags that are coming. up are the bigger bags. That's fine, Doug. Yeah.

Well, uh... I'll Google us. I was waiting for you to say some shit. I didn't do it because I always do it. Come on, bro. Who's going to slide in there to give him a fucking job, dude? No, I'm not going to do it. She just called doggling.

Dougal it. Hey, can you dogle it? Doogle it. Could you dogle it for it? We're going to make that a thing now, dude. He's so bad right now. He's going to fight this. That's it.

You do this. Hey, speaking of it. Speaking to retailers and stuff, do you know what I saw at Bevmo? You know the store Bevmo? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what they sell at the front? What? Zibiotics.

Oh, they're in there. They're in Bevmo now. Finally. I know. That is such like an obvious, like, yes, like, that you need to be there. Katrina connected them to a couple retail places and restaurants. Actually, I didn't tell you guys this. They reached back out to her.

Yeah, and they, well, I mean, we had been kind of trying to do that for a long time and encouraging them to do that and just never happen. And I don't know if maybe it just maybe because people weren't aware of the brand yet and maybe there's more brand awareness. And so maybe you know what it is. I think they had their sights on these other products that are developing too. And I don't know. Like they weren't like spreading it into all the bars.

So I was so I go to Bev Mo, obviously, so Fourth of July, so we're buying drinks for for the party or whatever. And I see them. And next to them are other, you know, recovery. type supplements for, you know, after you drink, right? The day over, the day after, do you want to feel better? And there was quite a few. There was like a couple, like, drink shots you could take and some pills.

So I think this market exists. And I think the reason why Zibiotics is taken so long is because it's so different. So I'm wondering if retail is like, well, where do you have a couple of those things? They don't sell that well. Yeah. Yeah. For people listening, Zibiotics is way different. It works.

There's no denying it. It is a, it is a probiotic. that's genetically modified to actually break down acetylide. So it's not like electrolytes and, oh, here's this herb that helps with inflammation. It actually reduces this byproduct of alcohol consumption. It gets rid of it out of your gut so that it doesn't cause all these issues. So my prediction with zibiotics is what's been happening. It's going to be a slow grow because people are going to try it and they're going to be like,

you have to try it. I know, yeah, to become a fan. Because it works. Yeah, no. If you're somebody who has any sort of side effects, I feel like from drinking at all, it's one of those things that it's like a must try. Totally.

Yeah. It's changed my relationship with being able to drink, which has been awesome. It's been awesome that I can actually enjoy just a glass. 100%. I feel like I always had to have the weekend covered and like had it the next day. Like all tomorrow I get to sleep. Yeah,

yeah. So it's been. Waste your next day. No, it's been super nice. I got a cool study for you, Justin, on explosive power.

You'll see if I can find this. So I know you like this. I don't see diarrhea or something. No, not that kind of explosive. Good Lord. No, they did some.

brain stem on people, and they found, and I've got to look up this study. So they did brain stem, and they stimulated parts of the brain that control, like, motor function. Just by doing that, the improved explosive power. So no additional exercise, no nothing else. It was just that. And they improved their power out. But I can't find the study.

But it makes sense, the central nervous system. Yeah. What does it do, say again? They did some brainstem. Just from the stem, though. Doug, look up brain stimulation and athletic. Does that just help the recruitment process? Like heightened it.

That's right. Okay. That's right. Isn't that cool? That's wild. Yeah. You know what's cool about that? Okay.

So I just immediately assume somebody's going to try and develop a product out of this. Yeah, dude. Right? Like some kind of helmet or something you wear, pre-game. It's a non-invasive brain stimulation. So non-invasive brain stimulation, it looks different than like e-stim stuff. It's not on the muscles. It's on the skull.

Yeah, but even that, it's different, though, right? It's instead of, like, isn't this like what Ben Greenflees do where you have to do, like, exercises where you have to let, oh, it's not like that. No, it's literally, or you're changing brain waves. It's literally activating these parts of your brain. It's actually pulsating. Yeah, maybe, Doug, just type in non-invasive brain stimulation and click on images, because I want to see what this looks like.

Yeah. But. So it is like an e-stem. Bro, this is cool because you get a device like this. It actually works. Yeah. Anyway, it's not going to compare to exercise and all that stuff, everybody. But it does something. Imagine right before a game.

Well, that's what I'm thinking. Yes, exactly. I'm like some kind of like a pregame, like hat helmet thing that you wear. There it is. It uses magnets. Look at that. Imagine too how I could. Well, that's kind of ridiculous though right there.

No, I think they have. I think it's all going to look ridiculous until it becomes a thing. Well, you know what I think of right away. We talked about this just recently. What's the number one reason for injury? Oh, is the lack of sleep? Yeah. Lack of sleep.

Why does lack of sleep affect that? Yeah, CNS. CNS. It interrupts that process. So if I had a poor night's asleep and I'm a pro athlete and I'm getting ready to go play my sport away. Take 13 and that. Yeah.

Right. It's like being really interesting. Really interesting to see how that could help mitigate that potential. Yeah. That's what comes in mind right away when I see that. That is really cool. I'm assuming that there's going to be some commercial devices if there aren't already that you can kind of play with.

But think about that. Like you're going to go hit a PR, put on your whatever hat, turn it on. Wait, 15 minutes, go hit your PR? Because Halo, remember that product that it was like headphones? It kind of stemmed, you know, your brain. But it wasn't the stem. It was a different part of the brain for. Doug, maybe look that up again and say products.

I wonder if there's anything that are. The Warriors were using Halo for a while there. I wonder if they still do or not. When it was first out, it was an interesting product. Yeah, I was wondering to see. But again, I haven't heard about it since, and I don't know if it really took off. There you go. Looks like you could buy some.

I don't know how effective those are. the thing that Tom Bill you had us wear that one time. Oh, they're only $4,000, $5,000. Is that what that cost? No, $1,700, $1,000. Then also there's a $300 one. Yeah, well. Plugs and go up your nose.

This one might give you cancer, but it's only $3.49. But you're going to perform. Yeah. It just shakes your head. So it produces, it uses external electrical currents, magnetic fields, or ultrasound to safely modulate neural activity without surgery. These devices are utilized across both clinical settings like major depression, OCD, and consumer. Oh, that's interesting reason.

Wellness. Yeah, transcranial magnetic stimulation. That's the one that I was familiar with. Transcranial magnetic stimulation. Wow, they're used to treat conditions like major depressive disorder, OCD, and smoking addiction. Huh. Well, that's interesting. Yeah.

We're going to get weird. Yeah. In the next 20 years. They're finding so much, so much about the brain. It's just like, there's so much that we don't know. Whenever I see stuff like this, too, and especially, I mean, the audience can't see what we're looking at. It just, how accurate sci-fi movies got some things. I know.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, some of this stuff was like, that's why I'm so into it. I'm like, yeah. Do you know what ideas are out there? That looks like something you saw in a sci-fi movie 30 years ago. Yeah. You know?

It kind of looks like what's his name having, Back to the Future, when he answers the door? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Totally. It's his big old, like, huge halo, like, as it turns out. You know what movie trips me out? Because I know we're going to be able to do this.

at one point. I know it. But it's crazy. Do you guys remember one of my favorite movies when I was a kid was was Total Recall? Yes. With Arnold. Yeah. And in that movie, if you haven't watched it, Total Recall,

there's like this company that sells vacations. Oh, yeah, yeah. And experiences. But it's cheaper because you don't actually have, you don't actually go on vacation. You sit in this machine and he gives you the memory. Develop the memory of it. So it literally injects the memory or whatever into your mind.

And then you're like, wow, that was a great. You know, but you spent, you spent, you know, way less because you sat. You know why? You're going to be able to do that. You know why we are not only going to be able to do that, but it will actually make it into production and people will do it for sure?

Because I watch the positive it has on like depression and stuff like that. Somebody, you put it in all this. So we, they've been able to, they think erase memories and animals. So now it's like, hey man, I had a traumatic childhood. We're going to just make that go away.

Yeah. Get in our machine. That's not going to be misused at all. that's which was the other men in black pretty much on that yeah the neuralizer yeah yeah yeah

men and black version of that that yeah what move when you think back total recall all these sci-fi movies who had it most accurate maybe Star Wars bro

no we haven't got there yeah huh what are you talking about bro your boy Elon you just what are you talking about yeah

I mean SpaceX is one I mean my number from Star Wars with all the stuff with Palantier I mean I think that they pretty much nailed that. Who was?

Predictive, like pre-crime. Oh, like, oh, minority. Minority report. I think in the way that they use technology with like gesturing, that is the thing, too, it hasn't really took off yet, but I think it will in the future. I think, like, there's going to be a lot less physical. It'll be more of gesturing. I used to think player one, but we really, you know what's crazy.

We were so heavy talking about this just two years ago or a year and a half ago, whatever it was. you know, this whole virtual reality, people are going to be plugged in. Like, it really fell out of favor quick. It causes vertigo and Disney's stuff. Yeah. Yeah, like Oculus and all,

everyone got all excited about. It felt like we were like making really fast progress. And it felt like, oh, man, overnight we're going to be in Player 1. We're, it's fun, though. I mean, like, I got into it for a minute, but yeah, because you just, after a while, there's fatigue.

I was like, yeah. The movie that I believe spoke best to the future of AI was her. Have you guys seen her? Yeah. I thought that was a pretty, like, I was an interesting thing. We are. We are. I mean, you can already, you already have these.

But the reason, the part of it that made me go, oh, I could see this happening. Typically, AI movies are like, oh, no, the AI takes over and destroys everyone. This AI was like, hey, listen, I want to go disappear into the internet and just do my own thing. So I'm going to take off now. And that's all they did.

Well, like, right now, I just saw an interview with, like, Tony Robbins. He was talking about, like, his AI agent that he had, and his AI agent was notifying him and was like, hey, I would like to purchase this like robot vessel, like a robot dog and in order to program it for myself so I could like use it. And so he was like talking about this with this guy

that was predicting a lot of what AI was going to become. And so I guess that agent was part of that whole Maltbot website where they socially interact. and they have all these ideas. And so he actually, the agent bought it and purchased it themselves, didn't use any of, like, Tony's money from his bank account,

like purchased this dog, had it shipped to his address, and is already working on programming so it can, I was like, whoa. That's already happening. Like, that's trippy. Yeah, we guys talking sci-fi,

the one movie that comes to mind, this isn't going to happen, but this one movie that comes to mind, in my opinion, where the best sci-fi movies ever made with one of the greatest twists ever, Planet of the Apes. Original.

One of the greatest twists of any movie ever at the end where you're just like, what is going on? What about Soreling Green? Salt Lake Green's nice stuff, dude. It's made of people. No. Yeah, that only got me. I don't know, Star Wars, dude.

I'm starting to fill Star Wars right now with SpaceX and going that direction. All right, now you think Elon's going to dominate it off from the U.S., but what happens when it becomes like a country thing and it becomes all that, and then we got all these satellites and rockets. I think Dune does a better job. Just give me a lightsaber, dude,

and I'll be happy about that. Oh, you think Dune does a better job than Star Wars? You know why? Because Dune is so far in the future. Star Wars ripped off of Dune. I hate to say that as a huge fan, but it totally did. Oh, wait a saying, Dune came first. Yeah.

I did not know that. Uh-huh. Dune is older than Star Wars? Uh-huh. Really? So it's foundation. It's foundation in Dune. Now the nerds are going to go crazy with us,

but yeah, it's like, he pulled a lot from those. I did not know that the original Dune was before Star Wars. Yeah. How close, Justin, are they? 1960s. Holy crap, the original was 1960s? Yeah.

Yeah. Just some really wild ideas in there, too. And like the... Star Wars totally bit off of that. I actually thought it was the other way around. I did not know that. No. It's because Dune made a movie that sucked first.

Well, George Lucas wanted to make, like, Flash Gordon. Like, he was really inspired by that. And then, like, try to get the rights for it and everything. and so anyway he through his whole process had to like make other movies to then create Star Wars but yeah pulled a lot from all these different sci-fi stories. The first movie of Dune was in 70s I think

I think 80s yeah so well if it was 80s and then Star Wars was 70s the movie so the book Dune came first that's right yeah then Star Wars 84 was when oh so that's why it feels like that so the movie came out and 1984 Dune sucked It was terrible. It wasn't good.

Yeah, but I mean, even that, though, that came after Star Wars. So Star Wars actually, so in other words, George Lucas probably Red Dune. Yeah, of course. And then that inspired some of the storyline. I did not know that. For sure. I didn't know that.

Well, I didn't know. Joseph Campbell, I mean, he was really pulled a lot from all those myths and stuff. Whatever. I still think it's one of the best. Like, you're going to pull from ideas that are exists. So you put it together and it was one of the best. Yeah, I mean, that's not taking anything away from Star Wars. But I just assume that they were actually more original, and so many people have taken from them.

I didn't know that technically Dune was first. That's interesting. Yep. Star Wars sucks. Oh, cut that out. Sorry, dude. Unacceptable. I'm just kidding.

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What's happening, man. Hey, guys. Thank you for having me back on. You got it, dude. Give us an update. Yeah. When I last called, you guys advised me to eat 2,900 calories, get 7,000 steps a day and do MAPS Anabolic. Since I knew I was coming back on, I made sure that I followed everything you said. The hardest part for me actually was getting the steps in. There were definitely times when I had to do some late night walks, you know, just to get it in. But I made, I did it.

I ended up gaining another five pounds, which seems kind of crazy because it had been hard for me to gain weight. earlier. I think maybe it might have been the change in programming and also being consistent with getting my calories and protein. When I called last time, I was trying to get 3,400 calories, but when I wouldn't track, I think I actually ate a lot less and probably didn't get enough protein because I don't naturally want to eat that much. Also, according to my scale, my body fat percentage actually increased from 18 to 19. I did include some pictures this time, So I don't know, maybe you can tell me if it looks like I have 19%. It could be, you know, the inaccurate smart scale, which we talked about.

My other thought, though, is that I might be eating too much fat. I hadn't really been paying attention to that before, just calories and protein. But I looked at my fat intake before this call, and I realized I've been eating an average of 120 grams of fat per day. But I do find it hard to get enough protein without getting too much fat. and making sure that I'm eating enough calories overall. But aside from the fact that, you know, I still don't feel like I'm close to having abs. I'm actually very happy with how things are going.

Oh, yeah. I'm getting stronger, and I suppose that's my main goal. We talked about this last time, but, you know, I feel overall really good and really healthy, and I know that's, like, the most important thing. I did have a couple lifting goals for this year. I wanted to be able to bench press my body weight and squat 225,

and I already was able to do both of those, and we're only halfway through the year. So it's been cool to see the progress there. But, I mean, it's pretty much my update. I do have a few questions, but I don't know if you guys wanted to. Well, we're looking at your photos right now, and it's super clear. Your chest, your arms, your shoulders, your legs, all got built.

You built, for sure. It's been 60 days since you did this, right? So five pounds on the scale, 1% body fat up, which tells me most of that was muscle. By the way, the scale, the margin of errors, like 4%. Okay. How was your strength over the last 60 days? What changes, if any, did we see?

Well, I mean, I just know I've been able to go up. It's been a little bit different because of, you know, doing MAPS Anabolic versus what I was doing before. So I'm not like the programming is different. So I'm not, it's not exactly a one-to-one comparison. But, you know, I know that I've been able to gain strength, especially like in my squats and bench press. Good, good. If you had to estimate, how much weight would you say you've added to both of those?

The bench press, like 30 pounds. Holy cow. Maybe like 20, I don't know. Holy cow. Yeah, yeah, no, he looks like it. That's a big deal. So you've gained a lot of muscle. Yeah, I do.

You've gained a lot of muscle in 60 days being consistent with all that stuff. So what are your questions? What do you want to do? Well, I guess, you know, I'm not worried about my weight increasing. but I didn't know like if there should be a cap on that. You know, if my body fat, I guess as long as the body fat percentage just to keep going up, like does it matter, you know, if it's just muscle?

Or should it be like, all right, once I get to a certain weight, like I, you know, try to keep it that way? It matters at a certain point. But there's a couple of things you could do. So you're sitting at 2,900 calories still? Yeah. You could stay at 2,900 calories and keep strength training properly. Keep going.

And you'll probably see some body calm changes, especially with the muscle gain. How's your appetite been? It's good. I mean, I feel like eating 2,900 is definitely easier than eating 3,400. But I don't necessarily feel hungry after 2,900. I just feel good. But if I eat less, then I'm still hungry. Okay.

You're in a good place. Yeah, so I would say you could just stay at 2,900, stay consistent, keep doing what you're doing, and you'll have some body calm changes. You can also cut your calories. you can bring them down to like 2,300, and you'll see some fat loss, but, and maybe to the tune of like 4%. I wouldn't do that just because you're seeing such great strength games right now.

I don't think it's going to stop the momentum. I'd keep leaning into the building muscle. It's very clear you built chest and shoulders, arms, legs. I mean, you can see it in your before and after. I also want to point out something else that the, that this happens quite often where people track, but because they're not consistent with their tracking, their estimates are off.

And this is super common. Like this is like everybody. So when you were eating 3,400 calories before, I don't think you were always averaging, like you said, 3,400 calories because you went down 500 and gained 5 pounds on the scale. So you were probably on average lower than 2,900 calories or right around that number that you're at now. So I just want to point that out because that happens to a lot of people.

They're like, I'm eating this much, but this is happening. It's okay. When we track consistently, what we find is actually, a lot different. And the average person is off by 30, 40% with their numbers. And people who know what they're doing are typically off by 20%. I think you're in a really good place, calorie and training-wise, and step-wise, I just kind of keep you there and let the programming do the rest. That's right. Because just running through the program and then switching to a new program is it's going to show you continued strength gains and results. And over time, what will happen is you'll end up

building so much muscle, it speeds metabolism up and you'll get leaner. And you'll get leaner. Yeah. And I'm not worried about your fat intake. You're hitting your. protein. I'm not worried about fat intake unless you have like, you know, you get a blood test and your lipids are off. Sometimes that happens to some people, in which case we would look at the type of fat that you're consuming. But if your lipids are fine, 120 grams of fat, it's totally fine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it's mostly, I mean, it's fat from like meat, like beef or, you know. I like it. For some people, that's totally fine. There's a, there is a percentage of people that can cause blood lipid numbers to be a bit off.

And then we would switch where you get your fats from. But in my experience, most people, if they're exercising, eating a whole food diet, you know, otherwise healthy, it's not an issue. Okay. You said the 7,000 steps you said can be difficult for you sometimes. I can't remember what you did for work. Pretty sedentary throughout the day outside of that. Yeah.

Yeah, I think last time you asked me how many steps I said 5,000. I know I was tracking, but I wasn't really paying that much attention to it. It's just on my watch. I think it was less than that, actually. When I look back, it was probably more like 35, $4,000. That's the average person right there. I mean, if we put you, what phase of anabolic are you in phase three? I just finished phase three.

Okay, so you're done with the program. Yeah. All right, we can put you on another program. Put them on one of the splits. Yeah, and let's keep going. PPL or upper lower. Are you okay working out four days a week instead of three? Yeah, that's what I was doing before.

It's anabolic. All right. Do you want to try upper lower? that's a 14-split. I love that. Okay. I was going to ask about that, too, like where you think I should go from here. Keep your calories right where they're at.

Follow up or lower. If you do anything different, try and keep your steps over $7,000. Shoot, just be active walking. Try to make an effort on the weekends. When you do have days off or being really conscious of consistently staying up there, trying to get to that kind of $10,000 mark would be a good goal. Because just to add extra activity, follow in a new program, I'm holding the calories there.

I think you'll lean out and continue to kind of build muscle. Totally. Yep. Okay. Cool. Thank you. Yeah. And then after, what did you say?

Up or lower? Yep. Is it recommended just, like, kind of keep cycling. Probably go to a symmetry. It has some unilateral work. Just since those are very bodybuilder and strength-focused programs, it'd be good for you. We always recommend once a year running through either a performance type of program, maps performance, or running through a map symmetry where we address kind of unilateral, different planes of motion,

I think that would be good for you. And then you could go back to those programs. Okay. Thank you. I know sometimes on your podcast you guys talk about, you know, different like variations or things to do. Is that something more for experience lifters? Like, would you recommend like just, you know, someone like me, like kind of sticking with a program for a while before trying new things? If you follow maps programs and you switch programs after you.

you complete one and you inject something like symmetry or performance, you know, every six months or year, you're fine. Yeah. You just follow our programs. You're set. It depends on you want. Like if you want to just stay in a kind of aesthetic focus and like that's what you'd like to do, that would be like the majority of what you'd go back and, you know, and go through the programming

wise. But we're just saying to interrupt that. Otherwise, I see no problem with you trying like a variation of any of these different types of programs we have. have to offer. So, you know, you could, you could even do old-time strength. You could get crazy and experiment. Yeah. That's it. We have it all laid out. So, but yeah, if you, if you're somebody that wants to maintain a certain physique. Yeah. If you're really focused on strength and aesthetics, staying in a maps and a ball, upper, lower type of split, especially if the three, four-day routine

kind of works really well for you. You can stay in that pretty indefinitely and just interrupt once a year run either symmetry or one performance. That's it. But you could cycle through those two programs. If that's your main thing. If you like strength, I want to look good. That's the main thing. Then the symmetry and or the performance will address any sort of imbalances and keep you to where you're not just become this stiff little bodybuilder where you can only move in one plane. That'll do you well. Take you a long way.

All right. Thank you. Yeah. Great job, dude. Great job. We're going to send up or lower to you, Derek, right? All right. That sounds great.

Hi, bro. All right. Thank you. Thank you. recording. Yeah. So what's really good about this, and I like that this happened for the average person watching, this happens a lot. And this is why oftentimes you'll hear fitness influencers communicate to this, although I don't appreciate how they do it.

I think it's valuable that they communicate this way. But what often happens is a client will say, here's my calories, here's my macros, I don't know what's going on. Yeah. And then when you actually track diligently, they're all. off. Yeah. And that's what happened here. Majority of the time.

Now, influencers like to communicate to people how much they're lying and your metabolism can't slow down and you can't speed it. They go too far. But this is often the case. This is the case with fitness fanatics who know what's in food. I ask them made all the time. They want to actually count. I'm off.

Yep. Every time. So I think that's just a nice example of that. Yeah, no. And even on the step too, on activity. A lot of you look at your watch once or twice and you realize, oh, that's my steps. Oh, I do 7,000. Like, I must do that every day.

And it's like, oh, no, that was like a really active day. What is a really low day and an average day look like? And then when you look out the total average, you're like, oh, I was walking a lot less than what I thought it was. And so, yeah, I know, this is super common. This is also why I think there's tons of value in everybody going through at least a phase of their life, whether it's, you know, a 60-day run at it or whatever where they track everything really just the education. Trying to be dialed as much as you can. Yeah, just to at least get an idea of your behaviors.

and become aware of that because of that exact reason is most people over or underestimate on activity and food. Our next caller is Beth from Georgia. Hi, Beth. Hey, Beth. Hey, guys. How are you all? Good. Good.

How can we help you? Well, I will just start by reading my email so I don't ramble. Okay. My name is Beth. I've been listening to Mind Pump for at least four years, every episode. I bought several of your programs. I really love them. It's been really nice to follow.

a great program versus coming up with my own stuff, which I did for many years. I feel stronger than ever. I've really maintained my weight and muscle mass. So thank you. I appreciate it. Here's a little more about me. I'm a 59-year-old married mom of three grown boys and live to tell about it. As you guys can relate.

I have struggled with some disordered eating in the past, but I'm happy to say I'm eating a lot, I probably have the healthiest relationship with food I've had in quite some time. I'm 5'3, about 107 pounds. My last Dexas scan said I was at like 20.5% body fat, a little different than those in-body scans that they do in the office. The dexes are way more accurate. I've been working out consistently for about 35 plus years, very committed. I actually worked for an NFL team. So my job can be pretty high stress. I travel with the team. So we have some long days, seven days a week. I can return from a crazy road trip at, you know, middle of the night or whatnot. But really I have a couple questions. So I don't have any like specific goals right now. And I'm not

sure what might make sense right now for me. Like at 59, what would you guys recommend is a realistic go for me at this age or stage in my life. All right, good question. So what would improve the quality of your life? Probably reducing stress to some extent, but I don't know if you can see in my email. I exercise quite a bit every day. Okay. So when someone says they want to reduce stress, there's a couple directions we can go with that. One is to change the stress that you have. So a good example is like, I'm in an abusive relationship. I'll leave that relationship and that stress is gone. Sometimes that can't happen because the stress is not necessarily bad. Like, it's a job. You enjoy it. It's just high demand. Or you got a lot of kids. Or you just got a busy life.

And so you're like, look, these aren't really stresses I can turn off because they're not bad. They're just, they're just stressed. There are a lot of work. It sounds like you're the second one. Is that correct? Okay. So then the answer is to become more resilient. And so then the goal with exercise in nutrition is to increase the resilience of your body so that those stresses don't feel so stressful. So that they don't cause as much of what could feel like at times and be overwhelming stress or like it's kind of burning me out type of deal. Does that make sense?

Yes. Okay. For someone like, and this is different from person to person. So this could be very different advice for someone else. but someone like you, as consistent as you are with your exercise and your past with nutrition and all that stuff, it's kind of a simple way to increase your resilience, but it might be difficult for you to make these changes. So one of them is with your exercise and activity, I would reduce the amount of intense exercise

that you do because it is another stress. Now, the challenge with that, and you just correct me if I'm wrong, Beth, is that For someone like you, you're like, but that's all stress relief. Like working out hard a stress relief. Okay. But it's not contributing to resilience. So what we would want to do is stress on the body. It's a stress on the body still.

Even if it helps with the mental stress from the work and all things like that, it's still stress on the body. So in the moment, you're like, man, this feels good. But it's actually reducing your resilience for the other kinds of stress that you have in your life because it still requires recovery and all that stuff. And so it would look like less of the intense workouts. And there's a few places I think we can make some changes. Power yoga is a good example.

Yoga can be recuperative. Power yoga is not. Power yoga is typically a workout. So that's one way. The other way would be to look at your strength training and would be to switch from three full body workout days to something like a MAPS 15 style workout program. So that would be the other option.

nutrition-wise, this is going to be difficult, Beth. You need to gain weight. Yeah. You're sitting at too lean of a body fat. Yeah. And just so you know. For resiliency, that is. Yeah.

Not for look awesome abs in a bikini and get on stage. I mean, you look, you look amazing. I'm worried about that. But ultimately. I'm doing that in time soon at 59. Well, you look great. You look ripped. And I would say that the 20%, although the Dexas says 20,

the in-body says 14. I can see the striations in your delts. You're very, very lean. And a body fat percentage, a body fat does provide a certain level of resilience to both men and women. And so you're walking around at a body fat percentage

that kind of redlines you. It's like you're maintaining a stage-ready body fat percentage all the time. And that's okay for short periods of time, but all the time, it reduces your resilience. It reduces resilience to things like illness, stress, how your body responds to hormones, all that stuff. And so you would need to gain weight, and I'd like to see you gain like a few percent body fat. You won't look, you'd look great still.

But by eating more and letting your body fat percentage go up and changing the intensity of workouts, you're just going to notice way more vibrance and energy and resilience from doing those things. What program do you think? I've done, I really like muscle mommy. I've done anabolic. and I know you're saying Maps 15. I do tend sometimes with my like travel and whatnot, like the season's getting ready to kick off here shortly.

So it gets a little crazy. Yeah. The Map 15, like getting in the gym every single day is challenging. Skip it. Combining the two days, you know, and going every other. Someone like you, Beth, I would put you on Map 15 muscle mommy. And when you can't get to the gym, I'd say so what. And then you just pick back up.

I'd say, so what? Enjoy the work day and do what you do best. at your job, you're active, you're healthy, you're fit. And if you've been listening for four years, you've heard us talk about the study of how much you have to lift in order to maintain versus to gain and build. You have built an amazing physique. You have built a tremendous amount of muscle. You are healthy.

You are strong or plenty. You missing two to three workouts here or there ain't a big deal at all. Actually, what will happen, Beth, is if you increase your calories with the intent of gaining a little bit of body fat, you go down to. to Maps 15 muscle mommy, skip the workouts you can't make, just pick right back up where you left off. You're going to get stronger. Yep. You're actually going to see progress is what's going to happen.

Yeah. On top of feeling more resilient, energy, and all that stuff. All right. Are you, are you already on hormone replacement? Yep. Okay. Yeah. I figured you.

Awesome. Yes. Yeah, right? Yeah. So let's do this, Beth, because I would love to have you back. on because I know what's going to happen if you do what we say. It's going to blow your mind. Yeah.

Okay. So do you know, by the way, how many calories you're eating a day and all that? I don't. I really only kind of track protein. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. That's great. I'm going to assume that you generally eat the same kind of stuff most days like most

fitness people do. Okay. I do. Okay. So add an extra 300 calorie meal. So something that's like small, got some protein in it. It could be a smoothie. if you want or it could be like another small meal add 300 calorie meal do maps 15 muscle mommy

I'd like to see you in 60 days and I bet you're going to come back and be like I did not realize that this would happen another way to give her maps 15 uh performance as well I just feel like I have oh you do I was going to ask like what is the difference between like the maps 15 and performance well just a more emphasis on on different planes of motion just because if you're doing this consistently and you're pretty dialed in already, you know, to expose your joints to all those different like ranges of motion and to, you know, bulletproof a lot of the shoulders, the hips, the ankles. And so a lot of that kind of takes care of itself instead of having to then focus on mobility to address any kind of pain and stiffness you might get from training as

frequently as you do. So it's one of those things to preventively get ahead of it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So either one would be fine, but I'll send you 15 muscle mommy if you don't have it. Beth, I have that too. Oh, good. Beth, what's your, what's your three most consistent meats that you eat?

Are you a meat eater? Yeah, yeah. What are your three? I would say chicken and beef. Okay. And fish. So, okay, perfect. So another way to do what Sal's leaning towards with a two,

300 calories is, are you a chicken breast or chicken thigh girl? I'll do both. Yeah. Because of y'all have kind of introed chicken thighs more. Yes. Yeah. I would push you there.

I'd push you on the thighs. The beef, I'd get the higher fat beef and fish. I'd go more salmon and things that are. So just what, it's easier for someone who's already got a very consistent way of eating. Sometimes it's difficult to inject another meal for them. They find that difficult to be consistent is choose fatier cuts and or add olive oil or butter to those meals. Yeah, so you're just up in the calories. So you're literally doing kind of the same thing, but you're intentionally adding an extra 100 calories or so per meal.

in your meats making them fatier cuts or cooking them in an olive oil or a butter. And it's an easy way to just bump those up without having to like go out of your way to get an extra meal. Yeah. That's another way to do it. How when you did, by the way, with your Dexas scan, do you remember what your bone density showed? I don't. Okay. I would just take a look at it.

Just make sure it's good. Okay. I'm going to do one again here when the season kicks off. I kind of do them at the beginning of each. Oh, good. But yeah, like I said, if you, if you eat more, you know, kind of gain a little bit and you follow less intense strength training like a 15 program. In 60 days, what I would bet is that you're going to come back and be like, I'm stronger,

I feel better, and you might be shocked. Like I did not realize my body would respond this way. And it will. It will. Awesome. Can I ask one more quick question? Yeah, let's go. Okay, rest periods between sets.

Can you do like some ab work? No. No, you're not allowed to. You're not allowed to. You should be trying to rest for three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Go push three minutes.

Glad you asked that. I glad you asked that because that probably tells me you like to keep it moving. You know, Beth, this is an avatar of a type of person that we've worked with many, many times. So I could, I would have guessed that you have trouble sitting still in between. Oh, yeah. My walking pad at work. Yeah. You're on the go.

Yeah. So, yeah, we definitely should follow up because I feel like I don't want to give too much to rip from you and then you bail on us because there's a lot of things that I would like to adjust over time with you because you you're doing plenty of activity yeah and you need more rest and you need more calories and I know that's a lot to ask just the first you know 60 days you're a disciplined person you can do it for 60 days it's going to blow your mind it's going to blow your mind so the big question is what NFL team do you falcons oh falcons how long have you been tell me what you do that's I'm curious 12 years um I'm actually the assistant to

our CEO. Oh, wow. Cool. What a cool job. You know, Master of, or what is it they say, Master of None, Jack of All Trades, Master of None. So I do a little bit of everything. How fun. That's great. How fun. Has it been with the Falcons the entire time? Has. Very cool. Very cool. So y'all need to become Falcons fans. Hey, when they're not playing the Niners, I'll take you up on that. Awesome. Very cool, Beth. We'll see you in 60 days. Yeah, we'll follow up with you 60 days. Thank you, guys. All right.

Thank you. Let's do it. Bye. Bye. We've done such a, I say we, like media, right? Fitness media has done such a terrible job of advertising what is actually a healthy body fat percentage? Because shredded looks cool. I know.

But shredded is almost never ideal, regardless of fitness level. No. And you talk about resilience, especially as you get older. I want to see the bone density test. So do I. Yeah. I think it's, and I'm glad you asked, and I hope she looks into that. And Beth, when you listen to this, that's a good goal.

So whatever that comes back, get your bones strong. Let's get it. Let's improve that. And the way you improve that will be by gaining weight, gaining muscle. And so whatever the bone is, it comes back. You can always, we can still improve it. So, and especially if it's low. If it's low, then it's, it's not a, we should do.

You need to do. But I think no matter what, that's a good goal. Totally. But, you know, we communicate like getting leaner because everybody's so over fat. But when you look at the data, especially as you get older, being too lean is really bad for longevity and health. And it does a lot of nasty things. And we just, especially fitness finance. I got to shred it all the time. And like you said, I think there's value in periods of time allowing yourself to look shredded and be the way, but you don't live there. No. And for a woman, most women, you're being fit, your optimal body fat percentages in the level. to mid-20s. Yeah, 20s. Not 20, or what I think, by looking at her, because I think she's below 20.

It doesn't matter to me what the scale says. When I can see striations on a woman's delts, I'm like, you're probably too lean, especially if you walk around like that all the time. Yeah. Our next caller is Liz from Ohio. Hi, Liz. How you doing this?

Hey, this is awesome, guys. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Thank you. How can we help you? Let's go. All right. I'm going to read my question.

I've adapted it a little bit because a few things have changed since I submitted it, but generally it's the same. So today's my birthday. So that's right. Happy birthday. I'm 49 today. All right. And so I have a long history of being very cardio focused, but I've become a lot more

focused on strength in the past like four years. I've done several maps programs and I'm a regular listener to the show. I lived at home focusing on compound movements about four to five days per week, about 40 minutes or so each time. So I also aim for 8,000 steps per day. I consistently hit and exceed my. a protein goal of 135 per day. And currently weigh 135 at 5-7. My calorie intake is around 2,300. So last week, I completed a six-day bike trip across Ohio. In preparation, I rode with my biking

friend about 20 to 40 miles once or twice a week while continuing to strength train. I try to eat significantly more calories on those long ride days, 1100 or so, in addition to my usual 2,300. Even though the trip is over, I still anticipate doing regular long bike rides throughout the summer into the fall. So I feel like this is like you guys have been a great help to me. I feel like I'm finally kind of managing my body well. I feel like I am getting stronger. The bike trip would probably be considered a cardio activity, but the strength that I've built my legs just made a huge difference. We had to deal with some hills. I felt strong and capable. And then I also recently did my first pull-up, which I've never been able to do in my life.

So here's my question. I feel like I'm looking a little thin and I'm interested in putting on some weight and more muscle. Like, it's crazy for me to even say those words. I've never had this problem before. So I listened to your podcast a while back about adding five pounds of muscle in 30 days. And I was kind of wondering what kinds of foods I should be adding and about what my calorie intake should be. I recently tried to go up to 2,500 calories per day with 150 grams of protein, but I really have a hard time eating that much food on most days. I also wonder if it makes any sense to drop my step count or activity levels so that the calories are saved for muscle building.

I'm not really sure if I understand if that would work or if that makes sense. Again, that sounds like a crazy question to me. and then I don't want to stop the biking. I really enjoy that. So that's something I really want to have part of my life. So the whole thing about eating extra on those days, does that make sense so that I can keep from losing more weight? Liz, good job.

Yeah, you're doing great. You're doing a great job. So here's the one thing I would change because eating the extra calories on those ride days makes a lot of sense. It's actually great. That's a great strategy. The only thing I would change is this. When you're doing the rides,

So when you're going through a season where you're like, okay, I'm going to train for this ride that I'm going to do. This is where you add your one or two days a week of the long rides. You got a strength training way less on those weeks. Okay. So don't maintain your current level of strength training and then just slap on top of it. Bike riding. That's a mistake a lot of people make. Back way off on the strength training while you're doing the riding.

And the idea is to maintain strength while building endurance for the cycling. And you can do that with once a week of strength training. I know that sounds crazy, but what you'll find is your performance in the cycling will go up much faster. Another way to do it would be Maps 15 and the days that you ride don't do any lifting. So you just skip those days at Maps 15. Yeah. So generally I would not, the days for the long rides, I would not do any strength training.

Like the trip is over now. So like the long, long rides will be done. So it's really more kind of a once a week, maybe once every other week thing at this point. So now that the ride, the big trip is over. I'd like to shift more into the focus on the strength training. I actually, the first program I did was Maps 15. That's awesome. Nice.

Yeah. So I would, I mean, gaining weight is as simple as I'd back off a little on the volume of training and I'd increase your calories. Now, the calories, yeah. And I get that you're full and satisfied. And so it's going to take a little, because you are trying to force a little bit of a change in your body. There's going to be a little bit of a challenge there.

A couple easy ways to do it. You can add something that's more. palatable or you could try liquid calories, which is an easier way to add 300, a smoothie. A lot of people find that much easier to add to their daily intake. And I would go more like on a MAP's maybe anabolic style program or even a PPL kind of program while doing that. But even if you didn't change your strength training, even if you kept it the way it was, if you went up three to 400 calories, I think you would start to see the, what you're

I'm 15, I think adding more volume with struggling to eat more calories would be not the way to go. I'm curious what your steps are at right now since you did ask that. You did ask the question about potentially reducing that. Yeah, so I try. I have actually cut it back since I sent the initial question in, but generally around 8,000 is what I try to get. So I usually do, and that's what like I'm not running. It's just like a little bit. It's really just straight walks.

I walk in the morning. And that's something I enjoy. But I can cut that. No, no, no, no. The reason why I asked was just to see if you had like an abnormal amount. Like if you, because I didn't ask. If you would have said, I get 20,000 and I have a walking desk and I would go, okay, let's, because we just got off a call like that. So we, that's sometimes common. Somebody is like going out of their way to get 20,000 steps. And then I'd say, oh, yeah, let's cut your steps way in half. And that'll help. But if you're 8,000 and that's your lifestyle

and you enjoy, I would never take that away from you. I think that's important. And adding three to five, you know, 400 calories can be as easy as adding olive oil or butter. Higher fat meats. Or you make your meat cuts fatier or an avocado and just do it consistently. I don't think you need to bump your protein. You're at 130 grams and your body weights probably around there, I'm assuming. Yeah, I'm at 135. Yeah, you don't need to bump your protein.

I mean, you can do that too. I mean, I love literally what he just said. Avocado, olive oil, butter, higher fat meats. So every meal that you normally have, think of those four things. It's like what would I normally do right here? Oh, I would normally have chicken breast. I'm going to go chicken thighs. Oh, what would I normally do?

I'd have flay mignon. I'm going to go a ribeye right here. Oh, you know what? That sounds delightful. Right. I'm just going to add a half avocado or an avocado to that meal. To me, that's just an easy way to get that extra three, 400 calories is every meal that that you already kind of normally think of those four things, which one of those

complements that meal well. And then when you get back to the cycling, when that gets back in your routine, you're just doing one full body workout a week, you know, 40 minutes. Even if I'm only cycling. once a week? Yep. Yep. You can even do math 15. Oh, wow. That seems like nothing. No, it does seem like nothing, but you're going to put all your energy and performance into the cycling. Yeah. Okay. And that once a week is going to preserve muscle. Yeah. So what people, the mistake people make when they're training for something, they're like, okay, I need more stamina for this particular event.

I'm also going to build strength at the same time. That's, that's, that you, now you're burning the candle at both ends. Okay. So what you want to do is say, okay, I've built all the strength. I want to keep it, while I build endurance. And once a week is enough to, not just enough, that's ideal to maintain as much strength as possible while you're pushing endurance and stamina. Okay.

So now that this trip is over, and I do think I am in a position to kind of shift over and not, you know, make the bike rides a little more casual, not so long, that kind of thing. I would like to focus a little bit more on strength.

Yep. With kind of doing that, you know, so make the focus strength and the bike, and stamina kind of. I would stick with the MAPS 15 protocol until you proved to yourself that eating the extra calories is doing good and you start to see yourself go up in strength. And then I would maybe move to what Sal was suggesting earlier, which is like a split like

you talked about. Or MAPS muscle mommy. Do you have that program? I don't, no. I like that program for you. If right now... How many days a week is that one? Three.

Okay. If you're not doing any crazy cycling right now, you can go to muscle mommy and bump your calories and you'll see some strength gains and muscle gain. Yeah, I'd be curious about that. I was curious about the new one, too. because it, the upper lower, the upper lower. Yeah. Because that's sort of, that's similar to kind of what I'm already doing four days a week,

roughly and not quite as long seems to fit into my lifestyle. It's going to be more volume than what you're probably doing. But I think muscle mommy would be more appropriate. Okay. Yeah. And keep this in mind. Muscle is a slow thing to add. Right.

And so my, I think what's going to happen, you're going to add 300 calories, which isn't a lot. You're going to see some strength gains. and you might go up a pound or two on the scale, which is great. Yeah, that's fine. And it might require you doing another calorie bump. Yeah. Because as you build muscle, I mean, it's really crazy how the metabolism starts with. If you, because right now it's been hard to eat the calories, but what might happen,

appetite goes up. And so listen to that. If the appetite goes up, that's a good sign, especially if you've done it through eating good whole foods, we're a new training program. If you feel hungry, I would encourage you to eat. Just eat another one of the meals that you can, you already consistent. And you're in such a good place by everything that you're saying and how you did a pull up and you're getting stronger and doing well.

I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up somewhere around 2,800 calories, 2,900 calories. And that was where you ate, where you lived and just got your best. Yeah. Boy, that's insane. I know. I can't, I really just can't believe how different things are as far as just understanding better how to build muscle and not worry so much about a number on a scale. And I mean, I used to run like crazy.

and I always said I loved it. Now I look back and I'm like, did I actually love it or did I just love the idea of loving it? I love that you say that and admit that because so many people don't say that and admit that it's so the true. There was some sort of badge of honor in doing the hard thing. But, you know, it's hard to stay healthy and not get injured. And I just feel like I'm enjoying things so much more. I can't tell you what a difference the strength of my legs made last week. It was amazing.

It was really just amazing considering, you know, Yeah, what I would have done in the past is I would have just biked like crazy, like several days a week to get ready for that trip. And I really only biked the once or twice and then just kept trying to get stronger. That's awesome. I think it was huge. I love that. That's great. So good. Yeah, great job. So good. That's awesome. Awesome. So I have a funny story to tell you. I was telling my daughter. I have a 19 year old daughter. And I was telling her how thankful I am that the message is a little bit more for girls about getting stronger as opposed to just getting skinny. And I was, I was telling her. I'm thankful I was for that. And one day we're walking up the stairs and she's behind me and she's like,

mom, if you've been squatting, your butt's getting really big. I'm talking to myself. Man, compliments have really changed. In a good way. I'm thankful that she's not growing up with the messaging I grew up with and I think she's going to be all the better for it.

And I do think you guys have made a big impact in that regard. Thank you. For women in particular. So I'm very thankful for that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

here. Thank you. Yeah. Great job. Thank you. Well, thank you guys. Appreciate it. Yeah, keep it up. All right. What a great message. Yeah, yeah. Great call. What she's saying is true. The, the messaging is changing a lot to young women. It doesn't mean it's not going to get distorted and twisted because it always does, but it's a lot better than what it was. But to hear, you know, how great she's progressing, what she's eating.

I mean, bumping her calories is what's going to do it. And she's going to feel amazing doing it. I love to hear her. I can get a lot more. say that and admit that too because I can't tell you how many people I've looked in the eyes and they're telling me I love it it's like no you don't I told you told you yeah I love my circuit training I love my you know beat up classes I love my boot camp yeah you've convinced yourself that but what if you're the martyrs completely conflicts with the goals and the things that you truly want and there's a better way you know our next caller is Kimberly from Minnesota hi Kimberly How are you doing, Kimberly? Hi.

How can we help you? Well, I'm calling in. I have a question. Basically, been using programs for five years. First of all, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate getting to actually have feedback from you personally. I've been using anabolic, performance, symmetry, Muslim mommy, Maps 40 plus the 15s. And I wanted to start with PPL.

And I'm also a professor, so I have off in the summer. and I really like to run in the summer. And so I was starting my program, and I just didn't quite know what to do with how to incorporate some running in with the PPL. And then I remember listening to one of your episodes where you talked about possibly alternating weeks back and forth. So I just kind of wanted to hear what your thoughts are on what would be the best way to incorporate some running into PPL, I guess, either way. Give us an idea of what what type of running, like how much running are we doing would you like to do? So I sign up for like a 10 mile race like every fall just to kind of keep myself kind of in shape.

And so like I'll throw in a three to four mile run on like a Tuesday. Thursday I'll do some tempo runs or some speed or hill work. And then usually on like a Sunday I'll try to do the long run like increase my mileage by like a mile every week kind of throughout the summer. So that's where I'm up. Okay, so you're doing that now, right? So three runs a week, one kind of long, one tempo, and then run really long. Yeah. Okay.

And you're going to be doing that now until when? Until about September. I start teaching again in September, so it gets kind of busy. So it kind of taper off. Awesome. And this is for a competition? Yeah, it's, I mean, it's like a 10-mile road race. It's not like anything big deal, but I'm 45, so.

Oh, that's cool. And that's a good distance. Yeah. So the way you would strength train while following that running schedule will be more like Maps 15. So PPL is a little, it's too much volume for all of that. So you're not going to get the same performance gains in your run or in the strength training because it's a lot. Now you can do the alternate thing where you run one week, lift one week. And that's totally up to how you feel about that.

And it's also up to how your skill and running is. So sometimes people need to practice running frequently because of the skill of it. other times people like, no, my skill is good. And I would prefer to do a week of lifting and then a week of running. So it really depends on you. Like, how do you feel about something like that? Would you prefer to continue to practice the running on a weekly basis? I'm former, like, college cross-country runner.

I've run like four marathons. And so running for me is more like I pick it back up. Like I can just like run three miles, like getting out of bike. You know, when you have that kind of memory, like your body just kind of goes back to it. So it's not like I necessarily like practice a run. running. So I don't know. Yeah, the alternator sounds pretty good.

Then alternate. So one week, PPL, one week, you just do the runs. I mean, it would be a fun experiment, but don't feel like you have to stick with it if you don't like it. So that's all I would say with that is like, I think either one is fine. I think if you were going to do running every week, it would be math 15, like Sal said, or run PPL and then go run and then run on the opposite. So either way, it's fine.

But that would be kind of the two options. if it's conducive to your lifestyle, I'll do that and you like it, then run it that way. Otherwise, I'd go the other direction. And what you would pay attention to is improvements and performance. So when you get back to the running,

oh my God, am I faster? Do I feel better? What it allows you to do is push the intensity on both. So the week that's just strength training, well, I'm focused on strength training. The week that's on running,

I'm just running. And so you kind of push the intensity a little bit. And so some people like that. And what we've seen in certain studies, and again, it depends on who we're talking about, is better improvements in both when you alternate. Okay. I have a second part to my question.

Is that okay? Yeah. So kind of leading into that, I know that running isn't good for fat loss. I've listened to you guys for like five years. So I got that down. So what I'm thinking about is my body type, I'm more of an athletic body type. And so I feel like I'm very heavy on top. So when I lift, and I know you can't get bulky from lifting, you've said this before,

but I just feel bulky on top. And I tend to lean out in the bottom, like my legs and my hips. I don't gain weight there. And so when I do lift heavy, I feel really strong. I'm strong in my lifts. I feel good about that. But I just always feel so bulky on top. Is there a way like a program or a different way of lift?

or is that just kind of genetics? So PPL has a women's version where there's more volume for the lower body than the upper body. Okay, so I'm using that right now, and I'm in phase two. I'm just starting phase two this week. Okay.

So you continue to follow that, and if you want to take it a step further, you would cut the sets from the upper body even more and add a little bit more to the lower body. You've been listening, you said, for four or five years? Yes. Have you heard me, Have you heard me tell Katrina's story of like when we-

Yes, and I identified with this and I'm struggling because I know like it's a little bit of body fat probably and that's like the last place I lose body fat. But I just have never been able to find like the right formula. Okay. So I'm glad you've heard that so I don't have to tell the whole story all over again because your story resonates with me because it sounds like her. She's got an athletic body. She has kind of a wider back.

She was a basketball player and she laid her. She had the most amazing legs. They stayed lean all the time. But then her upper body, she just never felt like, she always felt boxy. She hated that. It would bother like crazy. She loved to run. That was always her way of kind of staying in shape as a basketball player.

When she put on a couple extra pounds, she'd go start doing the hill runs like crazy. She'd lose those 10. But yet she never could get this body. She wanted until she finally trusted me to like, just allow me to bodybuild you for a little while. And we're going to abandon this running as your way. of getting in and out of shape and losing your five or ten pounds you want. Do you trust me? And it took us years before this.

I think we're three, five years into our relationship before I finally got the reins. And I put her on our proper bulk of building muscle and just said, you got to trust me. We're going to build. We're going to build your metabolism up. And we're going to do through strength training. We're not running at all. You're allowed to walk. We could do those things with that.

But I put her on a true reverse diet and bulk. And I got her all the way up to like 2,900, 3,000 calories. from just lifting weights and building muscle. And then I cut her. And we leaned out. And when she leaned out, she finally had brought her waist in. Her back looked different she'd ever looked,

her arms and short, like for the first time ever, she felt like I have this physique. And that's when she let go of running. That woman has not ever ran again, other than to maybe play some basketball with my son and kids and stuff like that. She does not ever do it again

because she realized how easy it was for her to just lift weights and maintain this physique that she wanted. and she kept going back in the past of the running to get there. If that resonates with you, that is probably what you need to do if that's what you're looking for aesthetically. If you're looking for trying to build that,

that I would recommend like a true bodybuilder type of reverse diet and build muscle, build the metabolism up, and then a true cut and not using running as the method of trying to lean out, but to let your metabolism do that, hang on to that muscle you build, bring that waistline in. And so that will be my recognition. Now, I know how difficult it is because I was married to the woman who had the trainer at her disposal and still didn't use him. So if that resonates with you, you think you know you do it, but you know how difficult the psychological piece is,

then I just recommend getting a coach to that process. Okay. Probably what I need. It would be a very well investment for you to have somebody take you through that because that's what she had to do. She had to let go of the reins and say, okay, I trust you. I've watched you do it before my eyes now so many times. blows me away how I watch you just morph and change your body. I want that. And I say, okay, then you have to do what I say and just trust me. And then then I forever had her bought it.

And so if that's you, then it would be total worthwhile investment to have someone take you through that one full cycle. And it'd probably take a good solid minimum six to nine months of coaching with somebody to really take you through that process. But then once you got that in your back pocket, and that doesn't mean you'll never have to run. You can still run if you want to and you love to and you have a competition you want, but you can also control your body the way you want as far as the aesthetic piece and you know what to do to get both.

I think that exactly sounds like me. You know, what do I say? Maybe I struggle because, like, what do I ask coach for then when I... You express what we just talked about right now, they'll take care of the rest. You can convey it to, like it's great, yeah. You, you, and all of our coaches,

or not only trained by us, they all listened to every episode, and they know the story, of Katrina and so they're, trust me, you just tell them that. Like, I resonate with Adam's wife and her story and basketball and not being, and feeling like I have a boxy upper body and I know what I need. So they'll take you through everything. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So if you want, when we hang up, I'll have, I'll have someone call you and they can kind of go through all that with you. That would be my recommendation. Yeah. That'd be great. Cool. Thanks.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right.

Yep. Bye. Bye. Yeah, that's, by the way, athletic body fat storage in women looks like that. Yeah. And that's not because sports makes you store body fat that way. It's because you're genetically. That's what made you good at sports.

Yeah. Yeah, storing body fat, the lower half is not good for sports. But this is how women tend to store body fat. But then you notice with athletes. I couldn't help it. I'm listening to the way she talked about the running. I'm listening. And I'm like, she's, oh, ex-athlete.

I'm like, this sounds just like Katrina and how Katrina felt about her body. She would always, she had the most. She had the most lean defined legs all the time, just amazing. But her upper body, she just felt. And then she would start to lift weights for a while, and then she'd get off because she'd feel like she got boxier. And she'd be like, I already feel boxy. It's making me boxier. And so, and it just had to wait until she came to me.

And I said, okay, this is what we need to do. We're going to drop all this running. And we're going to literally body build. I'm going to build your, I'm going to build your upper body. And we're going to reverse diet. And then we're going to come back down. And we're not a way of doing it. And we're not going to come down through running where you lose a bunch of that muscle that we just gained.

We're going to keep those great delts that I built on you and those laughs that I built on you. And we're going to lean out nicely through diet. And you're going to see your waist come in and they're going to see this body you lie. And sure shit. She never strapped up them shoes again. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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