Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2924: The Best Machine for Every Body Part (Including Some You've Never Seen)

Episode Date: August 15, 2026

In this episode the guys break down the best machines for every body part — the legendary Hammer Strength H Squat for legs, the old school Nautilus pullover for back, the Smith machine upright row and Viking press for shoulders, the FreeMotion multi-plane chest fly, the high elbow seated curl machine for biceps, the seated skull crusher machine for triceps, and the hip thrust machine for glutes. They also tell the wild true story of a Soviet doctor who performed his own appendectomy in Antarctica in 1961, get into the trainer-client event they hosted and why it was their most emotional one yet, discuss the science and health benefits of forgiveness and what the data shows about holding grudges, share the story from Les Miserables about grace and how it transforms a person, talk PDE5 inhibitors and their anti-cancer properties, and go deep on probiotics as the next major performance supplement. Then they coach live callers submitted through mplivecaller.com.   Mind Pump Fitness Coaching: https://mindpumpfitnesscoaching.com 1.9 NASM CEUs   SPONSORS   Dose for Your Liver: https://dosedaily.co/MINDPUMP Code: MINDPUMP35 for 35% off first month subscription. 95% of participants reported a positive impact on LDL levels in their clinical study. Natural ingredients: amla fruit, pomegranate, ginger, turmeric, CoQ10, lycopene, niacin and folate.   Seed Daily Synbiotic: https://seed.com/mindpump Code: 25MINDPUMP for 25% off your first month. Probiotics discussed extensively on air — emerging data on fat loss, strength gains and athletic performance.   Butcher Box: https://butcherbox.com/mindpump No code needed. Free ribeyes, NY strip steaks or filet mignons in every order for a year plus $20 off first box.   LINKS   Submit a live caller question: https://mplivecaller.com Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   0:00 - Intro 2:10 - Best machines for every body part — the ones worth using if you see them 3:52 - Legs: Hammer Strength H Squat (leg-a-saurus) — why bodybuilders still talk about it 5:42 - Back: Nautilus pullover — why Joe DeFranco still raves about it 10:13 - Shoulders: Smith machine upright row, Viking press and standing lateral machine 12:36 - Chest: FreeMotion multi-plane fly — best range of motion of any chest machine 13:47 - Biceps: High elbow seated curl machine — the position you can't replicate with free weights 14:41 - Triceps: Seated skull crusher machine — go light and feel everything 16:05 - Glutes: Hip thrust machine — why this beats the barbell version for most people 18:02 - The Soviet doctor who performed his own appendectomy in Antarctica in 1961 27:27 - Probiotics as the next major performance supplement — fat loss, strength and endurance data 32:34 - The trainer-client event — why it was their most emotional one yet 44:06 - Dose for liver and cholesterol — 95% LDL improvement in clinical study 51:13 - The science of forgiveness — what holding a grudge actually does to your body 57:03 - Les Miserables and grace — the story Sal wants everyone to watch 1:08:37 - Caller: Kaylee (Arizona) — getting married November 11th, Hashimoto's, wants to look her best 1:17:04 - Caller: Olivia (Toronto) — burned out after 7 years, 911 dispatcher training to be a firefighter 1:30:34 - Caller: Alana (New Jersey) — disheartening DEXA scan after a cut, history of restrictive eating 1:48:00 - Caller: Joey (Tennessee) — rotating shift worker, two young kids, testosterone at 164  

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Head on over to mindpustor.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Machines have some value when it comes to building muscle, helping you burn body fat. They're especially good for isolating body parts. Today we're going to talk about the best machines for each body parts. Some of these are hard to find.

Let's go. All right. Machines. Let's talk about some of these. Justinoni machines? Yeah, none. Name one. You guys got a name one.

Yeah. Um, do you do, leg press. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Because I know we talk, him and I talk about when we travel or not feeling it,

you know, maybe overreach the last workout. Do you defer to machines or do you just go to mobility work? Well, yeah. I mean, if, if I'm limited to just that in like the hotel, like, there'll be like a peck deck or, you know, like one of those, if I have like something to do pull-ups. If I'm absolutely held hostage. Yeah, if I'm held hostage and this is like my way option. He made sure nobody's in the room.

I'll do it. You can see me? I don't know. I don't mind machines. It's fun. It just feels like too easy. Yeah. For me. It's so strong.

That's not it. So here's what happened. I made this list and I wrote, I put down some machines that are very hard to find. But these are machines that if I go into a gym and my goal is to do a normal workout for me, which typically involves a lot of free weights. If I see this machine, I'm almost always going to use it. That's what I did. I listed the ones like, man, if I see that, I'm going to get on that.

Okay. I like it. Yes. Okay. So the first one, we'll go with legs. This is a machine that is now, like, in mythology. It's like a, there's like a lore behind it now because they only made 400 of them. I looked it up.

Really? Only made 400 of them. They're huge. And the reason why gyms don't have them is because they take up so much space. And because people are afraid to use them. Is this that crazy one where it's like, climb it? Yeah. Well, you have to, like, press, like, over your head.

No. No, you're talking about a vertical leg frame. Lay down. and you press out, but you have to climb up it to get on. This is called the H squat by hammer strength, otherwise known as Legosaurus. So it's a unique name? Legosaurus is a nickname. So it's this huge machine that you literally have to go upstairs to get on the top of.

And it's a lever-based squat machine. Only three people have died. It's actually the best feeling. I've never felt a leg machine as good as this one. It's just to get into it, to do it, you're almost on display. So if you're not really confident, I'm sure you wouldn't want to go up there. takes up a ton of space. But till this day, bodybuilders talk about it fondly.

And they're like, man, I wish I had access. It has to be one of the most ridiculous machines. It is. But it's got such a crazy feel to it. It really does feel really good. This is a terrible example, but this is like Tommy Lee, you know, like when he's in his cage, when he's playing drums and he flips upside down, you're like, why?

It's for show. Yeah. It's for show. No, this one actually feels really good. The range of motion, the thing with leg machines I don't like often is the range of motion. It's kind of short, oftentimes, the leg machines. Yeah. But this one is like a real deep kind of squat type of range of motion.

Just by the way it's set up and designed. So I just love the feel. I figure you would have put like a belt squat on there. I love that. Now that's much more common. You'll find belt squats. Well, yeah. You're not crazy common, but they're more common.

I mean, the chances that anybody listening to this podcast is going to ever see the machine you just brought up. If you see an H squat, take a picture of it. Yeah, because that's how rare that is. Belt squat is a, you're right. That is such a functional person. I feel like that's a good honorable mention there. Totally. Totally.

I would say for sure. That's one of my favorites. 100%. All right. Next we get to back. Adam and I have talked about this machine many times. I got a fond connection to it. If I see it,

I don't care what my back workout is scheduled to do. I'm going to hit this machine. It's an old school, Nautilus pullover. And they're just hard to find. I love that. I brought this up the other day on the podcast because I said Joe DeFranco shared it. And we had this conversation.

What did he say about it? He had just, so he had walked in some, I want to say it was like some old physical therapy office place or whatever. And he was showing his audience. He was video and he's like, check this out. These are. And he's talking about how great all these old machines are. And then he goes over to the chain Nautilus pullover.

And I'm like DMing him like as he's doing it. I'm like, this is. And we go back and forth for like 10 minutes just about how that's the greatest machine that was ever created. What does this look like? Like you laying down? No, no, no. It's a pullover. Overhead.

No, you sit. You sit in it. You sit up. It's, it's chain. It's not a cable or a strap. It's a chain, which is probably, I don't do it anymore because you catch a finger in that. You're losing your finger. Yeah, yeah.

Sure. You put your elbows on pads and then there's a handle. You got a foot stomp here. So it brings it to where you can get locked in. Yep. And then you let go the footstomp, and then it'll pull you back. So you get like a stretch and a crazy squeeze at the same time. You're sitting straight up.

Yeah, you're just like you are in your chair right now and you have a foot stop that will bring it back over. Remember, you've done that trisip one before. Yeah, I didn't try some. So it's like that. I've never done a seat like upright, seated one. Pull over. Oh, it's so good. If you have trouble getting a pump in your lats, you will 100%.

It's such a good. It's such a good. It's awesome. You can load it good. It's a shame that there's not. It's, you know, I know they got rid of the chain because of safety and stuff like that, but you would think they would have made it leaving a cable or a belt version of that. They are. There are cable and belt versions.

I know Hammerstank made a plate loaded one that I would sometimes see. It's just, it's one of those things like, again, machines moved away from bodybuilders and athletes and towards the common consumer. And a pullover machine is one of those machines that the average gym goer looks at has no idea how to use. So it's just difficult. Yeah, it makes sense. I feel like hammer strength was pretty good in terms of like, you know, the feel and it being

still performance driven. Hammer strength did a great job because what they did is they, and Nautilus did this, the original Nautilus was good at this too, but Hammer Strength tried to create like resistance curves with their equipment so that it was harder at one point easier at another point and gave it kind of a different feel. That's the way it became so popular. Yeah. The body bills. Honorable mention for back, obviously a cable row. I think a cable row is a staple. You know, I guess you could call it a machine, right? Yeah, but that's so standard. It is. Yeah, that can't be an honorable mention. Honorable mention has to be like somewhat

unique. Okay. There's nothing unique about a, yeah. I would say like, you know what I like For the back, that's unique. You know what I like, and I think you would agree, is the standing T-bar row. Oh, yeah. The one that has the platform. Oh, no chest support. Oh, yeah. I'm the old school.

I love that. Yeah, you don't see those that often. You can make that at home. You can't, but there's something about the platform elevates you and you have a thing to kind of lock it and set it out. So it's just, it's comfortable for that. And when you do it, when you do it between your legs with a bar, it's not as comfortable and wedge it in a corner. So when I see one. where it's it's I almost always I always go over and use that for that was that was a

that was a staple exercise for me as a kid so as a kid I used to take the barbell a wedge in the corner and the first time I did it was like this is and it was literally one of the exercise I always did yeah and maybe that's why too when I was when I first started lifting that was a staple movement and then later on I saw oh wow someone's made like a machine out of it and I'm like oh that's it's like the only use for landmines for a while there yeah yeah you just do like a T bar You know what's crazy as we're talking about this, there's such a difference between how people,

this is just a little side combo, how people do a T-bar row non-chest-supported, like you're saying, how they do it now versus how they did it in the 70s. You ever watch them do it in the 70s? Oh, yeah, full-range. They're going on. They're like doing a back extension with.

That's why I like it. Because so the chest-supported one, you only have a certain, so far range of motion. It's just the row part. Yeah. And the standing one, I could take it all the way and completely like round my back. and then come back.

Yeah, I just, yeah, no, it's one of the best machines. Yeah, love it. All right, shoulders. I put this one here because it's not an uncommon machine. You should be fired for this. But the way this feels, we're going to contest. This is a higher skill shoulder exercise, but it places me in a position that I can't get doing almost anything else.

And it's a Smith machine upright row. Just because it's on a track, it's bringing it to where I want, and I can really feel the lateral head. That's so weird you would pick that. Well, what's yours, dude? I mean, anything else? That's not shit. Yes, no, I'm serious.

Like, I've done that before and been like, no. Like, I'd rather have a barbell. Do you have a favorite shoulder machine? I mean, how about the Viking Press? Oh, God. Oh, yeah. Is that considered a machine? Yeah, of course it is.

Well, yeah. Yeah. You got to use a landmine again and have leverage with that. And they make, they make, like, machines that are like Viking Press machines that are cool, too. You know what? That's not bad. The first time we used one, it was here, and we saw, who was it that was using it? Was it Ben, what's his name?

Powerlifter. Polkowski? No, oh, Pollock. Pollock was using one. Yeah. Then we ordered one. We used it here and the feel on it. It's the extension.

Yep. It's that full extension that squeeze at the top. I love that. You know the other machine I really like? I know it's lateral, but it's still cool. The standing lateral where you grab the handles that are like kind of free. Dang, that's the one. That's another great one.

I can go all day on this. That's like the worst one you picked. It's a great one. Another great one is the golds in Montereyhas, where you lay flat on your stomach and you can do rear delft. Oh, I never liked that. Oh, bro, I love that. Is that where you put your face in the hole? Yes.

It's a massage table. And you can get, I mean, there's. You miss with your buddy while he does that, later way. That one you never see. Yeah. And there's not a lot of. See it? Nobody has used it.

And there's not a lot of great rear dealt movements, right? There's only so, I mean, there's only so much you can do rear dealt wise. And so to have a machine that you can really target the really. Basically locks you in. Oh, yeah. So that was one of my favorites. Yeah, I could think of a lot of good shoulders. The standing lateral ways one was a good one.

Because if I see that, I'm using it. Oh, yeah, that's great. 100%. It just feels so comfortable. Yeah. You know, because it's all the handles. Do you even know what that is it, Justin? What?

No, I don't. Ray, I've played around with the macros. I don't have, like, I don't have, like, fond memories with you guys. Yeah. Just was like, give me a barbell, dumbbell, What do you guys do? Yeah. Which I love.

Labe, huh? Yeah, this is the guy with the massive arms over here. All right. Chest. I, this, you see sometimes in the early 2000s. You don't see it too often now. Do you guys know what the free motion multi-plane, like, chess machine is? So it's like you're sitting in a chair that's got a back to it.

And then there's cables here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can do presses or flies. Yeah, I like that. Oh, man. Yeah, it's the best. Yeah, it gives you really good range of motion. It's the best for flies.

Again, not a ton of versatility. Probably why they got rid of it. gyms. But if I see so much with, yeah, just the free motion by itself, you know, you can get, you can put a bench in there. So versatile, yeah. It's like what's the point? But I like it because you could adjust, you could go upper chest, lower chest, you

get a deep stretch, squeeze. Yeah, I can get down with that. Yeah. I'm trying to think right now, there's not a lot of chest machines I'm a huge fan of. Me neither. I was never a fan of, I know everybody loved the hammer strength, like chest press. I never liked it. I never felt it that much.

It does okay. It's not. It was always like a finisher, like, yeah. I've always thought, you know what it is too? There's like, it's one of those things you could stack a bunch of weight on it.

So it's like so not impressive. Especially the decline one. Yeah, yeah. Cables were always best, though. If I was going to do any kind of flies. Cables?

Yeah, for range of motion. Absolutely. All right. Next for biceps. Biceps are pretty easy to hit. So, you know, machines,

whatever. But there's a seated curl machine that you'll sometimes find where your elbows are locked here. And there's, and there's cams that help you curl up. And I've always liked that. So I like that. But there's one that I like more that I get excited when I see.

Because you can, that's a little bit easier to emulate or simulate. The one where your elbows are positioned up high. You can't, that's great. That was the other one I was thinking of. Yeah. Because you can't really do that. You can't. And it's just not the same.

You can't really make that challenging. Exactly. And you can't. We're so it locks your elbow and shoulder in and you can really concentrate. And it's just a position that you normally wouldn't put your, I mean, you can do that. You can try and do that with cables. it's not it doesn't feel the same without the support and so it can actually kind of load it in that position so if I see that that bicep machine I'm doing that bicep machine yeah I agree for triceps so

this is a machine that when I was a kid I didn't like and the main reason I didn't like it is I just would put too much weight on it and it just didn't feel good and it wasn't until I got older where I stopped caring so much about how much you know the weight stack was and I would just go light and try to make it work. And this, it feels great. And it's a seated skull crusher machine. Nautilus made one with pads. This is where your elbows are on and you lock yourself in the pad.

Two handles. And you're not going super heavy, but you're really going through a full range of motion. If you go light on that, it's going to give you a real good feel. The only reason I never liked that one that much is you, you have to go really light. Because if you go heavy, it rocks your shoulder and elbow back. I like the one that I was referring to Justin. Overhead. Yes.

Oh, man, when you put your foot down and then it gets it'll pull all the way back down and you could load, you could load that really well. If there's, again, Monterey has that, or not Monterey, but Bernal. Yeah, I think, yeah, you're onto something with getting the elbow position up high. For the machines, I think that would be the move because like dips, like how are you going to beat dips? Yeah. Yeah, otherwise. There's a dip machine. There are dip machines you see.

I mean, when you push down, that's pretty weak. There's one that I rarely ever see that it's. plate loaded. It's got long arms like this and they're just big tubes that come up. And you add plates in the back. It actually feels really good. What Jim had that? One of our gyms had that over here. I like that one. Yeah, yeah. It feels better. But I'm with Justin. The overhead one is, I think, if you see that for triceps, that's, I'm going over there for sure. And then for glutes, you see these all over the place now. Hip thrice machines are actually pretty good. They are. They're actually really, really good. I mean, I actually would make the case for hip thrust machines over barbell.

So would I. Because barbells really tough to get comfortable to get set up. Yeah. Get in. Yes. Yep. And the range of motion is really just the plates. It dives into the bone. Yeah. And it's an isolation type of exercise anyways.

Yeah. So it's not like you're, you know, like you're getting tons of benefit for it being a free weight. And so that's actually a machine that I would probably opt to do over free weights more often than not. And speaking of which, I know hip thrusts are really popular with, especially with women who want to build their glutes. But I'll tell you what, if you're a guy and you want to improve, well, let's say athletic. athletic performance. You want to get faster at sprinting. The data on the, on a hip thrust shows it's got a great carryover to sprinting. And then if you're just looking to be strong, this is my own personal anecdote. Hip thrust is one of the few exercises that have a direct carryover to my deadlift.

Like there's a few exercises that'll have carryover. A lot of them don't have too much carryover. Like if my squat gets better, I typically would get a better deadlift. But when I do a hip thrust, I feel it right out the gates. Like right away, I'm stronger. You're a guy that has like no shame, you know. That's just say, Jay, Justin I leave. We'll just hump the air. We'll let you have that award.

Go for it, guys. We'll let you be the guy. It's not the worst exercise you can do. You look cool. You ever watch old, old videos of bodybuilders doing donkey calf raises? Oh, my God, bro. Oh, where they sit on each other. Yeah, yeah, Ford.

You're like riding your buddy. I mean, those are close. Those are close. Yeah, those are close. It's close. It's crazy. Anyway, I, dude, I read a story. I'm going to pull up a story that I read.

It's a true story. I confirmed it. One of the craziest things I've ever read in terms of like, like, this is a true story of a doctor that had to do something really crazy. This happened, this is a Soviet, this was a Soviet Russian surgeon. So I'll read this to you. This is crazy. In 1961, during the sixth Soviet Antarctic expedition, there was a doctor.

there was the only doctor at this on this supply ship. Okay, so he's a doctor for the supply ship and they're doing work. The sea froze over and the team was isolated and stranded, okay. And they're like, okay,

we got to wait for the winter to be over before anybody can come get us or we can get out of here. We got supplies, we're just going to chill here in the sea until this, you know, kind of works itself out.

Like on the boat? Yeah, because the sea froze over. And nobody could rescue them. Okay. I didn't know that like happens. That can happen. That can happen. So nowadays we have like ice, it's rare, but this was 1961. Like, you guys are stuck, which is fine.

They're probably not going to die. They're okay. They got supplies. But here's what it gets crazy. The 27-year-old doctor started getting classic symptoms of acute appendicitis. So he was like, oh, no, I'm the only doctor here. And you got it. This is definitely appendicitis.

Do you do it on himself? And if I don't, like, if someone doesn't operate on me, man. I'm dead. Yeah. I'm gonna die. So he did. No way. He like to have the directed or he did it himself? He had one of the guys there. No, no, one of the workers there. This is not a surgeon. Sure. Yeah. The chef. He's got like coach and crew. Who would you pick? No. You're stuck on the boat. Who do you pick? Yeah, the chef, right? Yeah, the chef, right? Yeah, the butcher.

Yeah, the butcher. That's the best guy for the job, right? Well, dude, he took one, he took one of the guys, and all he did was he trained him on the equipment. He's like, I'm going to tell you to bring me this, give me that, and then, so he taught the guy with the equipment was, no anesthesia. Oh. And he gave himself a two-hour operation.

Dude. Two hours? Two-hour operation, removed his own appendix, sewed himself back up. And lived. Lived. Wow. That's brutal. Yeah.

When you hear stuff like that, how. How weak do you feel? I feel like a total wuss. Yeah, dude. Could you operate on yourself? I mean, to think, too, for him to know that he needed to do that, like the average person probably wouldn't even know what's going on, right? You would just be in this pain and you wouldn't understand what's going on unless you

were a doctor. Yeah. Well, he would, so what happened if you read about this story. Pass out. He, first he realized, like, oh, no. Hey, could you imagine doing, being, like, doing the instructions and then pass out? And the guy's like, what next? So what he's, so here's what he said.

What next? Do you plug this? The red wire or the blue wire? I don't know. So here's what happened. Here's what he said. First off, when he realized it was appendicitis, he went into despair because he's like, I'm going to die.

There's pictures. I'm not going to survive this. Like, this is crazy. Then he had to have this mind shift. He's like, okay, I'm a surgeon. I have to do this. I have to separate myself from this, whatever. Yeah.

Then he told somebody, one of the guys there, you need to give me these instruments. You train them. And then he told this other guy, if I pass out, your job is to wake me up. Because he knew that was a real possibility. Okay, he did. So he was like, if I pass out, smack me, wake me up. So I can finish the surgery. And he just, yeah, dude, he's the gangster.

This is Russians, yeah. Yeah, they're different people. You don't care. Did I ever tell you when I did a judo tournament against the Russians? There was a Russian team that came when I was a kid? Really? Did I ever talk about this? No, no.

I was 13, I think. And we did this big tournament. and there was a Russian team that had come in to also compete. And they had all ages. And so one of their kids, one of the kids was my age, and he was in my group or whatever. And I don't remember what I, at this point, I think I was a, I don't want to say, I would say a yellow bell.

And we were allowed, and my age and my bell meant I can also choke. So there's a certain point in judo where you can't choke unless you're this age and a certain belt. They won't let you do chokes. Interesting. It's not like jiu-jitsu, where they'll choke each other. But anyway. So I'm going against this. kid and he I was a lot bigger and strong on this kid okay Russian kid and I'm on top of him and I'm

choking him and I don't have great technique so I'm just strangling this kid basically and he's like not tapping out and his face is changing colors looks like he passed out at one point my mom's yelling at me from the stands to stop she's yelling at you're going to kill him yes in Sicilian she's yelling at me. And then she's literally telling me I'm in trouble. Like, you better stop or you're in trouble. Oh, no. She's yelling at me from the stands.

Oh, no. In Sicilian, you're going to kill him. You're hurting him. Stop it. You're hurting him. Because I'm like, on top of him. Oh, trying to get this kid. Yeah, yeah.

To tap out, you would have to tap out. Oh, my God. Yeah, dude. Oh, I won. And I remember thinking like, dude, you just going to let me kill him? You can't. You're so bad. It's a gangster.

No. That's, that's the Russian sport. I know. Hey, you and your boys getting ready to take off, huh? trip to Atlanta and uh are they excited yeah they are yeah real excited okay it wasn't like you had like dad corps some to go and so what is this for uh so we had a caller remember they call her oh this is the the NFL the falcons yeah she's part of the the the falcons and so they're in training camp right now and i was like oh this is a great opportunity because ever it's like really into football

but not like to the point where he's you know watching it on tv like really like knows the players like, you know, he just, he likes playing a lot, you know, and I'm trying to like, you know, stoke that a bit more. So I think this will be great for him to meet the players and like, are you going to see the practice? Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to do that. And then there's also, I guess there's like a Porsche experience like right next to it. So do, you know, the first day we're going to do like a, you know, racing track and they're going to drift with the kids with the cars and stuff. So yeah, it'll be cool. I just figured, you know, if you're going to throw something out like that, I'm going to

take advantage. You know, it's always cool about that. I think everybody at some point, I'm not a big, everybody, you guys tease me, I'm not a big, you know, traditional sports guy. But I do believe everybody should experience seeing a world-class athlete in person do something athletic because it's wild. Well, and also, it's the wildest thing. Just being on the same level if you're like on the field. That's what I mean. Yes. Yeah, you just, you see the, the size, the power, the speed, and you're just like, oh my God. Oh, it hits different in person. It's one thing to watch it on television and then you get it up close.

When you see a 300-pound man run faster than you've ever seen. It's going to give me PTSD probably. I was like, I got right to that point. It was like, yeah, I'm done. Well, I remember the first time I saw a 90-plus mile an hour fastball and I was standing, you know, kind of next to where the batter would be. And to see the ball come from the pitcher, first of all, I didn't know it made a sound. It makes a sound.

Yeah. It like flies through the air and it like makes a sound. And to see the ball move and that fast. Oh, it moves. Yeah. It was weird. Yeah, it was weird. It was like, how did that even?

My buddy caught, he was a catcher for, you know, Mark, for Chico. When Chico, the years that they went and won the series. And he caught for a couple guys that ended up being MLB pitchers. And even like at that level, right, really high level, a collegiate level, that are going all the way the championship with guys that will end up

going to MLB there still is like a difference between the best picture of the league versus like good pictures and he's like oh it's like

yeah he's like it's like an extra 10 miles an hour and that 10 miles an hour he goes my hands would be black and blue in the mitt

yes in the mitt he goes it's just such a different feeling and then how it comes on he's like the way it gets on you like he goes

you see it for a but second leaving his hand and then it's in your hand. It's one of the only sports I can think of where you're doing it, like you're killing it if you touch the ball three out of ten times. You have to be predictive. Like literally, like right as it, like, before it even leaves his hand, you already have to like know where you're going. It's wild.

I just watched a video of a three-time NCAA Division I wrestler, which is like incredible. Like you're a top wrestler in America. At that level, you're great. Yeah. And he was at an Olympic trial, and he was wrestling against a Olympic gold medalist and just got, looked like he just didn't know what he was doing.

He got crushed by somebody. There's such a different, the levels that you get to. So to see that in person, I think everybody should experience it. I love it. It's very humbling and also, like, inspiring at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, because some things are not so easy to see, like, intelligence, entrepreneur, you know, entrepreneurs who are brilliant.

You kind of see the proof in the pudding by what they do. But you don't, with athleticism, it's very clear. It's very black and white. Like, oh my God, I can't believe someone runs that fast. Pure. Or how do they jump like that? It's very obvious. Yes.

Yeah. It's a great analogy because it's something like with business and intelligence. It's not. You don't know what you don't know. You have no idea. Yeah. You see outcome and you go like, oh, he must be good, right? Yeah.

But you don't realize what level the productivity and the ingenuity. Yeah. To be able to do something like speed. Power is power. It's someone, like, you see it with your eyes. It's like, it's very, very. Speaking of athleticism and stuff, again, I'm going to keep hammering this drum that I think the next big supplement for fat loss and athletic performance are probiotics. Oh, yeah.

I wonder if it's already, you know, since we're talking about these. They're not advertising it as such. So like, they're not, but I, you know what though? The data is there. This actually would be a good question for you while you're out there. Okay. I would not be surprised if like the NFL and like teams like that are already looking until. already using it with athletes and things like that, just for...

You think? Because, like, a lot of times stuff like that that's outside, you know, lifestyle-wise, they're always, like, seeking coaches, you know, and, like, personal trainers and people, like, outside nutritionists. But, yeah, it'd be interesting to find out if they have, like, a team protocol or not. Well, so, like, so we work with Seed, right? So people don't know, I mean, we did our homework and they're the best. The best in the world when it comes to the kind of strains that they use and how they deliver the strains to where they need to go

and how they keep them alive and all that stuff. They have yet to advertise them as athletic performance supplements or fat loss supplements. The data is there. Yeah. You know what reminds me of, it's like creatine. Cratein got known for strength and muscle. Now we know it's this longevity supplement.

Probiotics sold as gut health, improves your gut health, obviously. But it does way more than that. mood, anxiety, fat loss, athletic performance, strength, endurance. All the data is there. It's like a very, it's a good for you supplement that also helps with your fitness goals. So it's obviously it's going to help with your overall, like, health and function and, you know, improve everything, all your systems and digestion, all that kind of stuff. But what, what have they attributed to, like, the actual performance increases, like, benefit-wise?

So here's what we have with the studies. We have studies that show the end result. So athletes that take probiotics versus athletes that don't, they have more strength gains, they have more athletic performance gains, more stamina, they recover faster. Okay. Explaining the mechanisms is difficult because... You can't really parse that out. Well, the microbiome is super complex. Yeah.

I mean, we could attribute it to improve neurotransmitter production, reduce information, better... Maybe you could recruit at a higher capacity? Better nutrient assimilation. I mean, I don't know, but... True, this is probably a little bit of all of it. Yeah. Or there could be something direct. Everything just works better, probably.

Or there could be something direct. I wonder how it, like, compete, well, not competes, but how it measures up to, like, the comparison to, like, a multivitamin. Like, how, like, how good does it do as far as in comparison? Do you think it's better? Do you think it's going to be superior? Well, so multi-vitamin is so widely accepted. Everybody, every doctor recommends it.

It's, if you're nutrient deficient and you take it. The heart attack in the nutrition is. The hard thing with a multivitamin is if you need a multivitamin, it's life-changing. Yeah. So. Yeah, but you can make a case that everybody does. Because in order for everybody to get all the nutrients that they need for, like, your RDA, we've talked about this before.

You'd have to have two servings of liver, 3,500 calories. Like, who's eating 3,500 calories from whole foods and liver every week? Nobody is. So if you're not, then there's a case for everybody should. I mean, I hear what you're saying. The point that I'm trying to make is if you're, if you're, have an actual deficiency? Because there's like there's deficiency, there's adequate and then there's optimal.

Yeah, that's fair. Okay, so adequate, you're not going to have symptoms of a deficiency. Now optimal, you'll just feel better. It's not going to be super perceptible. But over time, there's like a difference. Okay, and we know this. But between adequate and deficient, it's life changing. If you're deficient in a key nutrient like vitamin D.

Yeah, it's fair. Your body is, you have symptoms of illness, you know, depression, anxiety, pain, hormones. Which is like comparing to somebody who, if you have, severe gut issues and you take a probiotic and all of a sudden that makes a huge difference. I mean, that's life-changing too. It could, but it's, yes, but I don't know if you're necessarily deficient because probiotics have been shown to benefit everybody.

So, like anybody who takes a probiotic tends to derive benefit from it. So it's kind of good for everybody. Yeah, but wouldn't that fall in line with the multivitamin too? I mean, maybe. I know seed has a multivitamins. You guys know that? Yeah, you know, I watch a really cool. They have multivitamin too.

someone was breaking down some of the some of the best like supplement companies and it was like a Instagram real rant totally random no one even affiliated with seed but seed popped up as one of the top five yep and they talked about what they did such a good job of becoming the best at a probiotic first before they did like obviously the market was there for the state in the lane yes just like get known for the best of this and then they did all that's their hero product right so then they went on and they talked about that's what the real was about understanding like a hero product for brands and they are a classic example of some

a company that did that so well. Yeah, hit it out the park with that and then they've added stuff since then. Yeah, that's great. Hey, what did you guys? It's been out now a few days. We've talked about the software but we'll bring it up on the show. What was your experience with the trainer client event that we held? It was secure at mind pump. Different.

Yeah, it was very. It was very. We were trying to talk about we're guesstimating how many of those events that we've done now. So what we've done in the past is we've had live events where we've invited fans and then we do like a live Q&A

and we get to meet people. And we've done trainer live events and all. So I was thinking of like all of it because it was a blend of a little bit of both and so you know we've done a lot a lot of those. I would say more than 12. I would guess yeah, 15 to 20. Yeah, Doug and I were like more like 1520

of those at least. Okay. And it was interesting to hear I always like to hear Katrina's perspective because she has a lot to do with the planning and the organizing and making sure that all follows through. And so she's pretty blunt when it comes to stuff like that. And a lot of times I'm in it.

And so I don't see from her perspective of watching it. And so she always will tell me what the events like afterwards. And I couldn't get her. I felt it was my favorite. I was like that was my favorite. By far. I like them all, by the way. I love them all.

Yeah, of course. This is my favorite one. I felt that the same thing. think what we all felt it was very similar and what I thought was interesting was she was like oh it was really good but you know it was different and I'm like well what do you mean by that and I kept pulling to like get what she meant for that and she would she had a hard time describing it the best way I think that she did describe it that aligned with probably why I think I loved it and liked it so much was in the past those those events are very much so centered around us and exactly and this event was not

Didn't feel center even though I know we do our live thing and a lot of the people obviously the people that are all there are Clients of ours fans of the show highlighted our Highlighted our team and the client success stories and it was emotional It was about them and their trainers. Yeah, and so Which for me and you guys, which You know the best example or analogy I could give was like being like a proud father Like as your kid grown up. Yeah, and so which which made me connect why she, you know, she's my wife and she's like, you know,

she loves the team, but it's like, yeah, team Adam, Sal and Justin and, you know, Doug, she's like excited to see that to us, like, the trainers, like it's less. Where for her us, it's not like their kids, like for us. And so I get why it wasn't maybe her favorite because of for those reasons, but I'm like, that's the exact reason why it was my favorite was. I met so many people. So these were clients of all.

coaches and trainers. And we've only had a training department for about two years. We had 100 people show up from all over the place. We had someone drive from. Where do they drive from? Minnesota. Minnesota. Yeah. We had a couple drive from Minnesota. It was Delaware when he flew in. Yeah. And meeting these people, and they're all, they've all been listening to show for five plus years, most of them. But to hear them talk about their coaches. Yeah. Every single one I met would bring up their coach and talk about their coach. Yeah. And it was just, it was incredible. They talked about the Coaches, they talked about the culture and getting the opportunity to be in the studio and meet from top to bottom of staff and just the feel. So that, I mean, all of that for me was like, I mean, one of the things that, we've talked a little bit on air about this. This business has always been here. I mean, probably from year two, right? Maybe not year one. Did we have a big trainer business on our hands? But by year two, we could have been training clients, right?

Whether it started with us and then adventure trainers, that business was always there. And we were really reluctant to do it for a really long time. And mainly because we were very protective of building the brand. It was, we were very protective of our name. Like, hey, we worked really hard to create this podcast, this network, these people, handing it over to trainers to then go represent us.

That's a massive overtake. It's a huge responsibility. Yeah, huge responsibility. And to see it unfold and for it to impact the people, I mean, I couldn't ask for a better response. Listen, we were trainers for, I was a trainer for almost 20 years before doing this. And I know the impact that a good trainer will have on a person. First of all, nothing touches that. There is nothing that will impact a person more intimately and effectively than a good coach.

The same is true for a bad coach. A bad coach can take somebody and get them to the point where they'll never try again. Yeah, they'll turn off fit. They'll be turned off for fitness. Forever. Yeah, forever. Forever. The hardest people to adopt a healthy and fit lifestyle and the right way, right?

in the right way. One of the hardest people to take and do that with is someone that has had a bad experience with a coach. When someone's had a really bad experience with a coach, they're closed, they're shut off. They don't even try it, let alone, you know, now they're kind of trying. And it takes a while to rebuild that trust. And so that's a huge responsibility. And if you're going to work for us, first of all, it ain't easy.

Trying to get a job here, good luck. But if you do pass through the trials and tribulations that will put you through, it's because you're special and then you're held to a very high standard. Like God forbid you're a trainer and you represent us in the wrong way. Yeah. So it took us a long time to get to the point where we felt like we could do it. That's why. Yeah, it was crazy.

It definitely got me a bit just seeing how our culture is really grown. And it's like a total representation of us to the point where it actually inspired me to make a few calls on my way home. Like I called some old clients that I hadn't talked to in like 10 years. Oh, wow. called two. Oh, really? Yeah. I was like, oh, hey, Tom, what's up?

I miss you. It was, yeah. I just really, to bring them in. Like, now that we have, like, something established like this, I'm like, yeah, this is something that I would, like, put my stamp on. It's like, you know, this is a good representation of, like, you know, what I tried way back in the day to create. But now it's at such a, you know, a level that it's just awesome to see. And I want them to be a part of it. I, so every time we do these events, there's always emotional moments.

and this one was definitely chock full of them. There was this one young woman who, and I won't say too much because I don't want to reveal who she is, but she's working with one of our trainers, and one of our trainers asked me if I could hop on a coaching call with her. And this young woman had a history of eating disorders and stuff leading up to working with one of our coaches. And the reason why she decided to hire one of our coaches

was at her young age, and this is a young woman, her doctor told her she had osteopenia, almost osteoporosis. This was a result of her, you know, starving herself, you know, on and off over years, which is just a common symptom of that kind of eating disorder. So I got on the call, we were talking, and, you know, one of the things I told her was throw your scale away. And I literally told her, I want to see it, and I want you to go throw it away right now. And really scary for her.

And, you know, she, and it was, you know, kind of was a tipping point. And she's working with one of our best coaches. Anyway, she was here. So that was probably, I don't know how long ago. It was four months ago that I had gotten that call. Anyway, she was here. I kind of forgot about the call. I mean, she's, you know, shaking my hand and we're talking,

and it starts to dawn on me who it is. Her fiancé was there, and he's like, dude, he goes, she went to the doctor and she had a bone scan. And the bone scan showed that her bone mass is moving in the positive direction. I know who you're talking about. I didn't even recognize her. So I'm talking to her as she's with her fiance.

Yeah. And she's saying hi and kind of like introducing yourself. She's introducing herself as if I didn't know who she was, and I probably responded like I didn't know who was. And we were talking for a minute. And then I saw her name tag. And I went, oh, my God. I know you.

It was totally did not pick up on it because I didn't recognize her. She looked so good. So it was crazy about this. First of all, her bone mask is going in the right direction. So she's going to be out of, you know, the danger zone here soon. But the thing that she was telling me was how shocked her doctors were. Yeah. And how when they told her,

that shit, when you're told you have osteophenia or osteoporosis, it's almost like they're, they're telling you about a terminal, or a non-reversible, you for like negative. We talked about this the other day. It's like, hey, you got this thing.

They talk about arthritis and psitis the same way. I felt like when they tell patients that they tell patients as if it's like, it's a life sentence. Yeah, it's like you caught this disease, you got forever. It's like, what's crazy is us, you know, and this is the conversation we had, and they were very grateful,

and we're all getting choked up. But I was like, you know, what's crazy is that, except for rare situations, bone weakening, you could, it's the most, it's one of the most predictable things you could reverse. It's as predictable as getting stronger. Yeah. Like, if I can get you stronger. Build muscle, you build bone. Yeah, we could build your bone. And then nobody communicates it that way, and it's weird.

It's wild to me. Totally. I mean, I imagine it's because of how rare it is. No, I think what it is, Adam. I think there's two reasons why. One, doctors have very little coaching on exercise and nutrition. They almost have no coaching on those things. Two, the way the system works is, look, getting someone to change their diet and exercise is not a conversation.

It's not, like, I don't just talk to someone for 15 minutes to go do it. Yeah. You got to coach them through this isn't easy. Doctors don't have that opportunity. And I think that their experience is when I tell my clients to change a lifestyle thing, nobody does it. So I'm just going to give a medication. Well, that's my point by it's rare. I mean, historically speaking, it's a little bit different now.

I mean, we're now getting to a place where people that are in their 60s and 70s, fitness was a little more popular in their 30s and 40s. But when we were 20, and those people were in their 60s and 70s, like fitness, lifting weights was just not a, lifting weights, eating high protein. And so when doctors would get somebody, typically in advanced age, that had these, they would just. They're not going to change.

How many clients did you have that would hire you in their 60s? And then they tell you their doctor told them not to do any strange training. Yeah. Yeah, don't lift anything heavy. Don't do this. Don't do any strength training. And I'd be like, can I get on the phone? Can I hear you back?

Yeah. Can I talk to your doctor? I had so many conversations with doctors because you had to get, you know, doctor's clearance. And I'd get on the phone and I would like explain to them what we're doing. And I'm just taking it through range of motion. It's going to be very easy. The idea is to get her a little stronger. Well, nothing over 10 pounds.

Well, you know, that's relative to the person's strength. We'd have this conversation. And I'd win them over eventually. But it was just, it was wild to me. But they tell them, don't. Don't lift weight. It's not a good idea. So that's why I think it is.

I think it is. It's rare to see that case. You know, speaking of stuff like that where you get, where you get kind of a sentence, you know, cholesterol and lipids, I got to say this. You can effectively, now, there are cases where you're not. not going to do a lot, okay? But in many cases, there are things you could take that are natural that will positively affect your cholesterol and lipid numbers. There are natural things you can take. Some are very strong, some not as strong. Dose's product has clinical data

showing that it helps, that it works. And I wonder how many people know that when they get their blood test and their numbers come back not so good. I wonder how many of them know they could take something over the counter that's natural and healthy, that's not a medicine that'll actually show some... My buddy lord has. Remember, I brought him up maybe a couple months ago? Oh, he started taking it? Yeah, yeah. Right away.

Right away. Took it. And he was a... He also made some dietary changes too, so, I mean, I can't just be like, oh, this just magically did it. Yes, yes, yes. You know, he backed off the amount of red meat that he was eating and just try to switch it up for a little bit leaner cuts between that and taking that.

I think it was... What is their study? because they have actual clinical data. Yeah, read that to me, Doug. Is it 95? Yeah, this one right here. Let's see. So 95% of participants reported a positive impact on LDL levels.

So that's 95%. Yeah. And 90% on triglyceride levels. And so, and all the ingredient, read those ingredients. It's like fruit and like, what are all the things that are in it? So they have, these are healthy, um, compounds. None of these act like a statin. And I'm going to tell you why I said that in just a second. But give me the ingredients there, Doug. Yeah. So it's, I'm not sure how you pronounce this. Amla,

amla fruit, extract, enositol, pomegranate fruit, organic ginger root and organic turmeric, coenzyme Q10, lycopene, black pepper fruit extract. Yeah. So those are all good for you. Yeah. They're all good for you. They're all anti-inflammatory. They're all to give you health benefits. And now the reason why I said none of those are a statin is because there is a like blockbuster big guns

over the counter natural compound. You can take that will for sure lower your cholesterol because it's a natural statin. It's actually what red yeast rice extract. Yeah. That's actually where they got the that's where they figured out how to create stent. Now why wouldn't you use that in combination or why wouldn't you add that to this?

So statins have their own potential side effects. So statin literally... Even a natural one? Yeah. It's still a statin. It ain't going to be as powerful as the pharmaceutical stuff. Yeah. But it's still a statin. And what statins do is they essentially tell your liver to make less.

Now that process of making cholesterol, though, has other... There's other benefits to it that you might need. So one of the potential side effects of a statin is like muscle weakening, brain fog, you know, because you need to produce cholesterol. So that's why I leave that one for, like, Okay, you need a bigger gun. Before you go to pharmaceutical, you can take Red yeast rice extract and see what happens there.

But it reliably. So that's probably why they wouldn't put that in there. Yes. Oh, interesting. There's two more ingredients I didn't mention it. It's niacin and folate. Yeah. Oh, it's got nicin in it, huh?

Oh, niacin was the old-school way of lowering cholesterol. You know that? I didn't know that. They would give you a crap ton of niacin until you'd flush, like you'd look like a lobster. Just heat up your skin. I'll never throw it the first time trying. And then throw you in a sauna?

Yeah. And throw you in a sauna? Both of those. Yeah. I've done it before. You've done that? Oh yeah, I get that nice and flush and get into sauna.

I tell you, man. It's a good time. I feel like that screams my head pounding with the head. Yeah, yeah. They use a niacinamide, which I don't know if it causes a flush. No, you're not going to flush from this. Yeah, I remember the first time I took niacin.

I read some bodybuilder talking about how it's great for a for a pump. Put some stack with it. Bro, I took it. I was at work. I took it and I was like, just sweating. Really red.

Yeah. I looked like Justin. Wasn't it? Wasn't it? After like two minutes of the sun? Was it, whatever happened to that brand? Red fuel, red fuel. Oh, is this the way you rub on your skin?

Is it rip? No, not rip fuel. The blue and red bottle that was small. Oh, red line. Red line. Oh, redline. Yeah, redline. Redline used to have niacin in it.

Oh, my God. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, because that one totally got me. Are they still around? Yeah, you can still buy redline. I haven't seen. It ain't like the old school. No, do the red line ready to drink.

That's almost back when they had a fedro. I believe this. So the original red line was gnarly, dude. It was a metal can. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. And you know what got them in trouble? It had two servings in there. Is that what it was?

Yeah, because people would take... Thinking it's one serving. I believe they had niacin in there, too. I'm almost certain they did. The original one. Yeah, I don't know. Yembe, caffeine, beta. Peta, Alonine.

Yeah, nothing beats old school speed stack. Yeah, no, that was the best. Hey, Doug, can you type in... I think you could still get them. That one almost killed me. 1990s speed stack. I just want to look at it. I know.

I just want to get fun. How many of it? I have. I probably like 200 milligrams of caffeine, 25 milligrams of a fedra. Yep. Yeah. 25 milligrams of a fedra plus.

And to think that I think multiple. And then you know what it said? Two to three a day? That's what the bottle said. Did it say that? Yes. Well, I would have at least two. I remember when I was trying to like, you know,

really push it in the in the gym. Dude, I burnt myself out on that. I'm definitely guilty of getting some of our stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Look at pictures. You're so close. You know, this is okay, everybody, this was drugs. I just want people understand, there it is right there on the right. Yeah. That's, I think that's the original. There's nothing like that.

No, that's the evolution. Oh, that's the, you're right. I mean, I just want people understand this, everybody. This was drugs. You run through a wall. These were gyms that we ran, and these were in the, the refrigerator for members or whoever to use. Did they have a big lawsuit? What happened?

Why did they have to pull? all of it. People were dying. No, it was, you know what it was? It was, no, it was a, it was a, it was people, so kids, I remember kids, uh, baseball play, I remember a baseball. Yeah, he died on the field. Yeah, I remember a baseball player died from a fedra. So hydroxycutt, all those brands.

They, they all had to start pulling a fedra. Because did, did it, a fedro is illegal. We can't even buy a fedro. Yeah, you can. There you can. Like, not black market, though. No, no, no. Can you, because you, you can you can't, you can't, but by itself and you have to buy it, you

you got to go to a farm. And you have to get it. It's not over the count. It's a broncholidilator. Yeah, you can't get it over the counter anymore. It's kind of over the counter. So you know how you go buy Sudafed and you got to go give them the ticket? Yeah, they have that and it's straight up.

So you just have to say the right things. No, it's just, it's a bronco dilator. So it's for asthma. Yeah, yeah. I have asthma. Yeah. And you could buy it and then you can take your own, you can combine it with your own caffeine and then throw. So the old stack was 200 milligrams caffeine.

25 milligrams of ephedra, 100 milligrams of aspirin. Disclaimer, Doug. That you don't do. Yeah, you don't do that. Don't. I put the disclaimer up there. Here's the recipe. Listen, I'm going to tell you right now,

if you don't have a high tolerance, and you're stupid enough to try that, because I'm not recommending it, if you don't have a high tolerance, you will feel like you're having an anxiety from like two and a half hours. You need to have a high tolerance in order to do that. No, no, no.

But we used to, so we used to, dude, I used to have my, so we would run gyms. We used to do it morning production meeting. Morning production meeting was 9 a.m. So 9 a.m. There was two production meetings. It was one at 9, another one at 4 before primetime.

So this were the times I'd hand out the speedstacks. So I'd have my salespeople come in. They'd throw them out everybody. Here we go. Have you ever heard of mini-thens? Yeah, that was a Fedra. Okay, yeah. Yeah, because, like, there was guys on the football team to take it.

I did it one time, like, before a game. And we're like, I breathe. People's good. Mows were, like, foaming. No way. I'm not even joking. It was like... We're selling these right now, you guys.

We can't be talking about my... That's why I said disclaimer. That's why Eli's got to put the disclaimer on the video to make sure it's like... It was really bad. We're the survivors. We don't... I'm wondering what was in it. I didn't even know it was in it.

Many things were sold for truck drivers at gas stations. Yeah. So this was how... That checks out. This was before truck drivers would go straight back. I don't remember those. Yeah. Many things?

Yeah, they were just little tablets. I don't know. Somebody on the football team was passing those around. Yeah. I mean, like I said, that's 04. I'm already taking speed stacks. I didn't need that. Yeah.

That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's for babies. For mini guys. If you're mini. Yeah, if you're mini. You know, bodybuilders are always on the cutting edge of what will kill you. They are. I have a buddy. I've talked about this before on the show.

I just got to bring it up again. The dynamite. I have a buddy who, so, so, so a long time ago in a dynamite manufacturing, this is how this got discovered. There was a dynamite. I don't remember where it was. There was a dynamite. dynamite manufacturing facility and workers who were handling the stuff were just sweating and losing weight like crazy.

Okay. And so somebody's like, what is going on with what they're doing? Anyway, there's a compound in the dynamite making. How can we bottle this? It's called DnP. Doug, you know, Google, Google DnP for fat loss. It's dynamite. And so what it's a very.

It's like cooks your insides. It's a powerful, you know what it is? It's a powerful mitochondrial uncopler. So basically what it does is it makes your mitochondria extremely inefficient with energy. Wow. So it's just burning energy. Goes crazy. Like crazy.

Or also known as like slowly killing you from the inside. Yeah. So it's a highly toxic industrial chemical that it's extremely dangerous and unfit for human consumption, all of which is very enticing to bodybellers. Like, oh, really? It's dangerous. But it doesn't kill you, right? Yeah, Doug, look up the history of DMP is for fat loss.

So there was a book that was written in the 19th. I want to say the 1990s by Dan Duquesne. Oh, he talked about it? Yeah, he was the first one to bring it up. So Dan Duquesne was this guy who wrote about experimental stuff, the craziest things. The steroid Bible guy? I don't know if it was a steroid Bible that he wrote, but it was a book that he wrote. And he wrote about DMP, right?

So anyway, we have a buddy. We all know who this guy is. I asked him, I'm like, did you ever try? He goes, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, dude. He said he took it and he sat in his room. And he sweat like crazy. He said it was like the sheets would turn yellow.

Dude, no. From all the sweat. Yeah. And he said, you couldn't see the fat loss because you'd hold the little water. And he goes, and you'd work out and you'd have no energy. Because, of course, your mitochondrial and coupler, you have no energy left because your body's just burning it off. He's like, your workouts would suck. Yeah.

He goes, then you'd come off of it and you would just be shredded. So you might die, but you'll be jacked out of your way there. And I'm like, did you ever? Cool. I'm like, are you ever worried about dying? All for a. All for a plastic trophy. All for a

Coveted all for third place. I hope he's listening right now. I love him too. Yeah, the idea that you're going to, you know what it is too? I think, of course it's the trophy is I guess

somewhat, but it's this idea that once you do that, you can build this business. So many people in the space I remember like that was like, goal one, go, you know, win and be. Get the magazine cover. Yeah, yeah.

And then you make all this money. And it was like, no, you don't. It doesn't work that way. Speaking of hacks, I got to share it. This is real fast, hilarious hack that my wife did. So we homeschool our kids, our two kids or two little ones. And that could be a bit difficult, right, getting them organized and stuff. On top of it, during the day, she has workouts that she wants to do.

And it can be difficult without using the TV to get the kids to do something so she could go workout type of deals. Sometimes they're out there with her, but that makes her workouts, you know, broken. or whatever. So she messages me. She's like, dude, I have the best. This is like the most amazing hack. I'm like, what did you do? She goes, when I give the kids an assignment, I'll tell, like, we'll tell our, you know, our five-year-old, every time you complete a sentence, mom has to do 10 lunges.

And so he's super motivated to get mom to do exercises. Meanwhile, she gets her workout. So the kids are doing their homework. What next, mom? Oh, I got to do rows. That's pretty sneaky. She's in between everything. That's pretty smart.

They're doing their work. She's doing their work. And she's doing her. Katrina figured something out a while. I don't know where she got. I should ask her who she got it from. Like, you know, there's times when he's off for a week or whatever and she's still at home. She's got calls and stuff like that to make.

And same thing. Doesn't want to put him on TV or stuff like that. And so what works really well is, and she'll know, like, obviously, this is one of those days. She's like, I've got back-to-back calls for like three hours. And I've got him home. What do I do? And so she'll plan ahead of time. And that morning, she'll set up like seven stations.

And they're timed. And so it's like build a puzzle here. You know, cut out this thing and do this. And so because it's like timed and they're stations. And organized. Yeah, and organized, it's almost gamifies it a little bit. Bro, that's brilliant. It is brilliant.

And it works so good. So a timer goes off. Yep. Move the next station. Yes. Yeah. And he gets excited about it. Like he can't.

That's brilliant. Yeah, he can't wait to see what the stations are. Oh, I got to share that with Jessica. And, you know, she makes some of them fun and some of them are school related and something like. So it's like, and she, and she sets it all up. Like that. Yeah, because all that requires is you set up the stations. Oh, that's brilliant.

Uh-huh. I love that. Uh-huh. And something about them, like, having a certain time doing each one and the anticipation of the next one and all that. That's so cool. That's so cool. I don't know. I don't know.

I'll ask her to Risch got it. All right. One more thing. I got to share with you guys. I was reading some cool studies on, some cool data on forgiveness and how that affects. and how that affects our own health and our own psyche. So obviously forgiveness is, this is a big theme in the Christian faith.

It's a massive thing. It's like the core theme. But I looked up the science around it because I've read this before, but I said, let me pull up the data. What does the data actually show on forgiveness versus unforgiveness? And it's wild. It's wild.

Not forgiving people. is essentially you're trying to kill yourself. And through that process, you think you're hurting someone else. What it does to the body is it increases blood pressure, heart rate. It has terrible effects on cognition. The increased risk of illness, chronic illness goes to the roof. It's literally one of the most unhealthy things you can do for yourself. It also is connected to other unhealthy behaviors.

So when you're holding a grudge inside or unforgiveness inside, it leads to more substance abuse. It leads to more... Toxic ooze. More, you know, rage. It leads to less a lowered ability to empathize and love the people that you want to actually love and empathize. And then forgiveness is so healing. It's so healing for people across the board.

It's wild. Do you believe it's a skill? I believe, well, you don't want to know what I really think. It's a practice. I think in a secular sense. Well, that would make his skill. Exactly. I think in a secular sense, true forgiveness for the hardest things.

Because we could say forgive. I could say, all the guy. I was going to, I'm setting you up for that because that's the next thing is that, you know, how many people say they do, but then still are harboring. Here's a deal. You cut me off in traffic. You stole my tennis shoes. You know, I could probably without.

You said a thing. I could, like, I could, in a secular way, try to forgive you. Oh, he was in a hurry. oh, they're having a tough time, you know, oh, they didn't mean it. You know, I could do that. But some things impossible. Well, now the world of everything, like reinforcing your own bias and like your own, you know, thought process, you know, in social media, you don't see any forgiveness content.

It's, well, I think I'm going to say is I don't know if it's possible outside of a strong spiritual practice. I don't think so. Like, in the Christian faith, it's not promoted at all. faith, a big part of the faith is you realize quite strongly. And the longer you do this, the more you realize just how much you don't deserve his grace and his forgiveness. And the more you realize that, the easier it is for you to extend it to someone else.

I don't see how that's possible without that, honestly. It's like somebody really does something bad to me or when I kids. Yeah. Without that, impossible. But the physical ailment like you carry as a result of that, so it's really interesting. I know. Yeah, it'd be interesting to hear. I'd like to hear Katrina's perspective

because it's one of the things I admire with her. She just has this and what I see from the outside perspective, so again, it'd be interesting to hear it from her words is part of that process or I think being good at it

is before you even have to forgive is actually reframing the situation that has happened to you and looking at it from a different perspective. In other words, person cut you off, off or did a thing to you or use something more egregious did something to your family. Immediately looking at the potential positive or potential like, like maybe they didn't mean

for her to do that. Like she has this incredible gift to like defer right away to like they probably, you probably under, you interpreted that the wrong way. I'm sure they met it from this way. Like she has this ability. And then even if it is like spiteful, mean all the things. Yeah. It has his ability to let go of it really quick.

It's powerful. Yeah. I try to do as much as possible with, like, traffic where, you know, something will happen. And you're like, well, it probably saved me from a car crash or it saved me from something else that was going to, like, you know, disrupt my entire life. So I get all that. And I understand all that. But, like, then you meet someone who's like, this person sexually abused me in my whole childhood. Yeah, that's.

Okay. How do you forgive that? Oh, okay. Are you positive? No, no, no, we look like this. Like, man, I bet that person was really hurt as a child. I know that's what they said. I know that's what they said.

I'm telling you what I see. I watch it in real time happen. The woman does it. And again, so what I don't know is like, it would be interesting if she classifies that as a skill, or to your point that it has a higher faith power thing that it's more connected to. But nonetheless,

because there has to be something transcendent. It's something that she is far better at than I am and I try and emulate because it's like it truly or at least I see it kind of like a skill it's like man it is difficult in those exact moments when it's happened to you or when you think because right away your mind goes to evil awful bad versus empathy where she goes which is man that person must have been so hurt or damaged or let it and so yeah I get that I just it's god I could see how that would be so almost impossible I think it would be impossible for me Someone did something to one of my kids.

Without the transcendent, no way I'd be able to. There's no way. No way would I be able. I mean, could I let go of like trying to hurt that other person? Maybe. Could I let go of like feeling a grudge towards them? I don't think so. I really don't.

Without the transcendent. Now, when I have, you know, a God in mind and I think of his grace, then I think I can't. Because I know, and like I said, the more I follow, the more I realize, like, I don't deserve. an ounce of any of that. But anyway, it's really interesting when you look at just the, even if you don't have any faith in any higher power, whatever,

if you just look at the data, it is one of the most poisonous things you could do. Well, I know where you're going with that because I'm familiar with it, which my point of bringing Katrina up is like, I just swear that's why she never gets sick. She's so healthy. She's just always like positive.

Like, it's I see front row seat of like somebody who, probably the person I know that does that better than anybody I know and her health, her mindset, her attitude, like is a question of that. Probably why she can put up with me. Oh, yeah, that's true.

100%. I know you had a question. Is like, I don't know how she gets. Have you guys ever watched the movie? I know the answer is no, but I'll just ask anyway. Have you guys ever watched Les Miserables, the movie slash musical?

Do you guys know the story? Do I have to admit that? You guys know the story? It's a classic story. Yeah. No. Okay. There's a scene in there.

It's a really good, it's a really, really good story. It's an old story, okay? But there's a scene in there where this man gets taken in by a priest. He needs a place to stay. He's a poor man, whatever. The priest takes him in. And this man who's lived on the streets sees like this gold-plated or gold, like, cutlery and stuff. And so when the priest goes asleep, who tried to help him and feed him, he's like,

I'm going to steal some of it. he takes some of it runs off, gets caught by a police officer. Police officers was like, where'd you get this? And he's like, oh, he gave it to me. We'll see about that. Takes him back to the priest. And he goes, this man, and of course the priest is like,

oh man, I housed you, I fed you, and are you stole from me? And he goes, this man, he says you gave this to him. Is that really what happened? And the priest goes, yeah. In fact, there's more I need to give him. Gives him more stuff, more gold, sends this guy off in his way. He's so transformed by this.

is part of the story. He's so transformed by this act of grace by this priest that he turns in, he becomes this really great man that helps all these other people. That's part of the story. So, yeah, you guys should watch it. Yeah, yeah, it's good. Who's the main actor? Is there, isn't there a big actor in that one? Huge Jackman, right? Okay,

that's my talk. Okay, maybe I will. Try to pretend I didn't see that movie. Honestly, I didn't see it, but I do know who it's in it's a good movie. I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen the play, dude, I've seen more musicals than I'd like to admit. I'm going to be honest. It's not one of my things I'd like to discuss.

Is Courtney big into him? Is that why? Or you're just quietly watching on your own? I get invited. I just have a client that was like, you know, big in the opera. And so she gave me tickets to like, I don't know, dude. I appreciate art in general. Any form of it, I'm like, I'm in.

I mean, I think the last time I did something like that, you were just like, well, I can't if you did that, I'm like, if you're talented in something, I'm cool. It's interesting to me, especially like you're really talented in that. that thing. Like, doesn't even need to be a thing I'm really into. I think watching people do their craft. You at a high level. Yeah, at a very high level.

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Again, it's butcherbox.com slash mind pump. Here comes a show. Our first caller is Kaylee from Arizona. Hi, Kaylee. Hi, Kaylee. Hello. Hello. How you guys doing?

Good. Good. How can we help you? Good. Okay, so I'm just going to, like everybody else, I'm going to read my question. So I'm getting married November 11th, and my biggest goal is to look and feel my absolute best.

without sacrificing my health. I'm 32 and a half Hashimoto's. I recently started working with Vita Bella to optimize my thyroid and address my low vitamin D. I grew up playing softball and volleyball, so I've always had like a fairly muscular lower body. For the last couple of years, I've been lifting five days a week,

three up or two lower. But since listening to the podcast, I started doing map symmetry. So I'm on week three. phase two. And then I was thinking about doing math aesthetic. Right now I'm about 185, 190 pounds, 32% body fat. I own a cleaning business. So I get about 10,000 to 12,000 steps a day, I'm meeting 21 to 2400 calories, about 170 grams of protein. So if I was your client, just want to know, like, what do you recommend? What do you, what am I doing right, wrong?

anything. No, thanks for calling. I'm glad you're working on optimizing hormones. I think for most people, MAPS aesthetic is just, it's way too much volume, especially if you have a very busy job and you're already active.

I do not like something like muscle mommy for you after MAP symmetry. How is MAP symmetry working for you right now, by the way? It's good. I actually don't have as much difference as I kind of thought I would. I struggled with phase one and then phase two has been good. Awesome.

Awesome. Okay. And when you say you want to look your best, be more descriptive. What does that look like for you? Do you have a body fat percentage goal? I originally had a weight goal of like 170, but really the more I listen to you guys, the more I'm realizing like weight doesn't actually matter. So I probably, I don't know,

25, 27. Totally doable. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Totally doable. Yeah, yeah. You're going to be in the reverse diet phase right now and trying to build before we go into a cut. What are your strengths look like on your lifts, like the big lifts, like squat, deadlift.

What are you doing? I was afraid you to ask me this because the program that I've been doing, they, it didn't include, like, really squats and dead lifts. it was a lot of like single leg what the heck I can't think of what they're called lunges dead lifts

toe touch the one that you step ups step ups yeah so I'm doing like a lot of single leg step up and it was like 190-ish and then I was doing

leg press and I was like over 500 pounds RDLs is like 135-ish. I've been afraid to... You're strong. Okay. Yeah, you're really strong. You're really strong.

And if we start squatting and deadlifting, this is going to be really good. You're in a good place. If you're averaging about 24 to 2,500 calories, I think if we can get you up to 29, closer to 3,000, and then cut down to, let's say, 21, 22, I think you would see a nice, consistent body calm change. Okay. But I'd want to reverse you before bringing you, you, down. Yeah, we got a good time right now.

Yeah. You got November's wedding time. I wouldn't start the cut until literally mid to late October. The last four to five weeks would be the cut. Right now would be the reverse like Sal's saying. So up until mid-October, we would be on a

slow reverse die. Because during that, if we do this correctly, incrementally, and getting stronger, we'll probably hover around the same weight, but you'll feel leaner, tighter. You'll probably drop a couple percent by Yeah, you'll lean out. You'll build muscle. And so you'll, you'll see progress in the right direction as far as your physique changing. And then the final like four weeks going into the wedding would be the cut. That would be the cut. Okay. Yeah. Especially are you, before you got on the phone with our partners at MP hormones, were you already taking thyroid or are you not?

Yes, I was. I've been taking it for, I've had Hashimoto's for five years. I've had hypothyroidism for, 20. Okay. Okay. What are you taking synthroid? So, yeah. No, I've been level thyroxine. Okay, okay. And lyothanine. Okay, good. Yeah, no, this will be great, but it's going to be reverse diet and then cut. Very straightforward. Where you will mess this up. Okay. Here's where you're going to mess this up, if you mess it up, is you're going to do too much. Yeah. Okay. Okay, because if you do too much, you won't get there faster, you'll get there slower. you'll still see some results. Your athletic background, you're strong,

you probably have a high tolerance for training volume. You're an athlete, so you probably got good genetics for that. So you'll feel like you're getting away with it like it's working, but it's going to set you up for failure later. And so what you sometimes see,

oftentimes see, especially, this is very common for wedding goals, okay? Very common for wedding goals. People get to a particular body for their wedding, and then the following six months to a year, they rebound and worse than they started out.

And so oftentimes that's because they just did a lot more too much than was necessary, and it just wasn't sustainable. Okay. And Maps aesthetic is a great program, but it is a competitive level amount of volume. And people, when they hear that, what they think is, oh, competitive level volume, I'm going to get there faster.

No, no, no. that means that it's not appropriate for the vast majority of people. Now, if you've been living your life like a bodybuilder for the last four years and everything's geared towards that and this is what you do, then that kind of volume might be okay. But for 90, probably 5% of people, it's just way too much. Musal Mommy is a decent amount of volume. So it's like moderate to high, whereas aesthetic is high to very high. and I think muscle mommy will give you way better results. Okay.

Yeah, because I want like, you know, the delts and the badass and, you know, that. We got you. We got you. If you don't have muscle mommy, I'll send that to you. No, I don't. Okay. I'll send that over to you. And then if you want to like nail it down, if you want like, hey, I'm going to, I'm

going to just, I want someone to coach me. We have great coaches. And so that's another option. You can be like, hey, can you work with me up until my wedding day? and then they'll just dial everything in through the whole process if you want some support like that. Okay. Cool.

All right. All right. Thank you guys. Appreciate your help. You got it. Thanks for calling in. We'll send that to you. Bye-bye.

Everybody always goes to the most extreme programs. I know. You know what's funny? You can see it when she said it. She knew it. She's like, I know what you're going to say? Yeah.

I feel like she knew. She knew. The cool part is she's strong and she hasn't been squatting and deadlifting. putting her on a reverse diet, leaning into those big lifts, she's going to see great results. Great results.

But I'm going to say this is like so common, okay? And people listening know what I'm talking about. You get, quote, unquote, in shape for your wedding, and then you fall way out of shape after the wedding, the following year or two or three. And it's because we aim so hard for this target of this day and we do way more than we can ever possibly sustain, way more than what is effective.

And when we're out of it and things are settled and we're married and whatever, then we quote unquote relax and we get this massive rebound. And this is so common that I would see it with people who try to hire me for their wedding, but I would see it more often with people would hire me after their wedding.

And they would say to me, like, I got in shape for my wedding. That was two years ago. Then I gained 30 pounds. And then we're working through this process. Our next caller is Olivia from Toronto. Olivia. How you doing, Olivia?

That's happening. Good. How are you? Good. How can we help you? Okay, so I wrote it out, so I stay on track. So I'm just going to read it for you guys. Do it. So I've been consistently training for about seven years, and I've worked with coaches for the last four. I spent two years with one coach before switching to another who has experienced coaching Olympic athletes. I've been very committed over the years. I completed 75 hard, have tracked my nutrition diligently, and have followed plans at both extremes. At one point, I was essentially in contest.

prep conditions with carbs down in the double digits and 60 minutes of cardio six days a week. On the other end, I've also spent long periods reverse dieting and bringing up calories substantially before slowly cutting again. Despite trying multiple approaches with experienced coaches, I've never been able to achieve the level of leanness that I feel like I should be able to reach. I'm currently training to become a firefighter while working full-time as a 911 dispatcher, so I have a fairly stressful lifestyle and shift work to balance. My biggest issue right now that I'm facing is that I'm completely burnt out with training. I used to love being in the gym and had to force myself to take rest days,

but now it's the complete opposite where I feel like I have to force myself to go almost every workout and I don't enjoy it anymore. And I'm hoping that you can help me figure out why I seem so resistant to leaning out despite years of structured training and nutrition and how to regain my enjoyment with training without sacrificing my firefighting performance goals. And if it's primarily a programming issue, a recovery issue, a stress issue, or if something bigger that I've missing. Olivia.

Recovery. Thanks for calling in. I'm sorry you're in this place. That really sucks. Sounds like it was a passion of yours and now you're like, hey, what's going on? Yeah. Why do you think you feel so burnt out? I think I feel burnt out because I spent so long being so accurate with tracking, didn't

miss any workouts, like would skip outings to go to the gym. And I just like never got to the results that I thought I was going to get to. So I feel like it just burnt me out where I felt like, oh, if I just don't put all this time and effort into it, I look the same anyways. So I just like completely turned me off from going. And now I'm like in the biggest gym rut that I've ever been in. Like usually it passes after a few weeks, but it's been like months where I'm like, I don't even care to go to the gym anymore. Yeah. I'm going to ask you a crazy sounding question. But you have to pick one, okay? Okay.

Okay. What would you rather have a love and passion for fitness and nutrition that feels relaxed, comfortable, and one that you can sustain or the ultimate goal of how you want to look? I feel like I don't know because I've never been to the point of looking how I want to look. So I don't know what mentality I have when it comes to that. but I definitely know that I do miss having the passion for the gym and being in the gym. Like, I definitely feel the mental switch of like not being as passionate. And I definitely miss that.

So I would say based on what I do know, I would go with regaining my passion for the gym. Good. It was a trick question. The answer you just gave is going to give you what you want. Yeah. Okay. So you're going to have to break free a little bit of your old ways, that old friend that you have, the comfort you find and beating yourself up

and how you separate surf from your peers, being able to outwork them and out, you know, train anybody and get after it. And you're really young. Yeah. But your body is telling you it's burnt. Yeah. If you keep doing the cycle of pushing yourself

that you've done since you were a kid, you're going to get some real bad hormone issues as you get into your late 20s and your mid-30s and it's going to be very difficult to repair. This is actually a good sign. It's a good sign that you feel burnt out. because your body is stopping you from getting to that place. And by the way, your body will want to hold on to body fat.

Yeah. When you're doing that. It's just going to want to hold on to it. Do you know why your body wants to do that? No. Because it's a protective mechanism. You need it. You need your fertility.

You need those things. And so what we got to do is a totally different approach. I even want to push back a little bit too on the, you said you've been from like each extreme as far as like, You know, you're trying to get shredded, 1,200 calories, Stairmaster, like crazy. And then you've been on the other extreme reverse dieting. And when you were reverse dieting, what did your training look like? So my best reverse, I would say, was when I switched coaches to the one that has, like, Olympic clients. And he completely pulled my cardio.

And I think, like, my weight just fell off so quick. So I wasn't really doing much cardio, just like walks and stuff. But nothing intense. And then, like, training was the same, like, maybe four days a week during my reverse. Is your coach mainly an exercise coach? Yes. Well, like, bodybuilding coach. But I stopped working with him a couple months ago just because I've been in such a rut.

But, yeah, he's a bodybuilding coach. Okay, okay. Because I'd love to have you work with one of our coaches and fix this problem. Yeah. And they can help you with workout programming as well. Yeah. We've got to get that passion back. We got to get your body back on track, feeling good, hormones balanced, dopamine and serotonin,

back where they need to be, so that you fall back in love with this. And what it'll feel like, I'm just going to encourage you, Olivia, when you do this right, compared to what you've done in the past, here's what it's going to feel like, okay? This is what you're going to say to yourself. How is this working? I feel like I'm barely doing anything. It's easy almost. What is going on?

It feels like my body just wants to respond. I'm not even doing anything, even though you are. but compared to what you've done in the past, it's going to feel like that because you've taken a very hard approach in the past, which was just ineffective. And really, you got away with it for a while because probably your tenacity in your age

and you probably have some good athletic genetics. At some point, it just runs out. And that's why you're in this place right now. But with good coaching, it'll probably take, you said you've been in about a few months of feeling like this? Yeah, it's definitely been probably like six months that I've been feeling like this.

It's going to probably take about six to nine months of changing things up to get you feeling like you're on fire again. Yeah. Okay. And that will look like some reverse dieting. It'll look like strength training that's going to be less volume than you're used to. It's going to look like you need to be patient. What you're going to fight, Olivia, is when you start to feel that spark come back. Because the spark will start to come back sooner than six months or nine months.

if we do this right you'll feel that within 30 days you'll be like oh god I feel like I want to go to the gym fight the urge to go crazy in the gym fight the urge to do your old stuff again well this is why you have the coach I mean this is where the coach will talk you from doing that because if you just set you we just set you on your way this is with the pattern that happens

is you start to feel that motivation and then all of a sudden you go back into a lot of the other behaviors that got us here in the first place that's right so your coach will walk you through this and just so you know Olivia because you're young you've been doing this for a while, which I love. One of my favorite things to do is get my hands on somebody who's your age who's been doing this for a while

because we can really change the trajectory in a radical way, you know, at 23 versus when I get someone at 43. So we could really radically change this. And what this will look like for the rest of your life is probably 85% of the time you're cruising, 15% of the time you're sprinting. Now, what you've probably done most of your life is 85% percent sprinting, 15 percent cruising because you're forced to.

So we're going to flip that on its head. And that's what it's always going to look like. And you'll have the best body and the best relationship with this that you could ever imagine. You think I was just going too hard on the gas, which is why my body wasn't responding. Are you kidding me? 100%? For sure. For sure.

There's never, okay. Someone your height and where you're at and your background should never see 1,200 calories. 75 hard is completely inappropriate. 60 minutes of cardio, completely inappropriate. I mean, there's so many things that are just... Just so you know, like, you know, you could go hardcore, crazy training, crazy cardio, crazy strength training, but you're doing it for like a block of like six weeks, eight weeks.

Yeah. This isn't where you're living. Yeah. So what you've probably done is you've lived there for as long as you can until your body forces you to slow down. Yeah. And by that point, you've dug such a deep hole that you've got a root. really come out of it and it feels like a nightmare.

The beauty of this is... You barely want to peak like that with that kind of intensity. Yes. The beauty of this on the other side of this is the body you've always wanted doing a fraction. Did you see the post I just did yesterday of Katrina? Yes. Yeah. Like that's the difference.

Like that's, she was the running 10 to 15 miles, pliometric trip. Like just and having to keep her calories low and that always kind of meant. But she never had the body she wanted. She always was like, I feel boxy and I don't feel like bulky and I don't like the way look and like weight training, higher calorie, like more appropriate, changed her hormone profile, changed the shape of her body, and it's like a fraction of the effort in work she has to put it in and then if you want to do a little sprint of eight weeks or 10 weeks, you get after it and you're able to accomplish things that you never could before. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. The problem is like,

I know that that discipline lives inside of me. Like I, it was probably like a year that I did not go a gram off my meal plan, like very, very strict and I was very disciplined. And I wasn't tempted to go off of it. Like I was enjoying what I was doing. But I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I don't even want to do that anymore. But I know that that discipline lives inside me and I want to find it again and enjoy it. There's a, there's a line between, there's a line between discipline and dysfunction. I want you understand that. Discipline is great, but it can, it can definitely cross over into dysfunction when discipline becomes your identity. So you do have that gear, obviously, you do have that discipline, we need to point it in the right direction.

Yeah. And so if we point it in this direction and trust me, it's going to challenge your discipline because I'm telling you right now, 30 days in, you're going to be like, oh, hell yeah, I'm on fire, let's go. And your coach is going to tell you, no, don't you dare, stay on this course. You'd be like, I have all this energy. Like, I can do it. And they're like, no, you're going to stay where you're at.

That's going to be, you're going to have to apply your discipline in that direction. Yeah. Yeah. What do you do for a living? Do you work? Nine 11th. Yeah. I'm a 911 dispatcher and I'm training to get into firefighting.

Okay, good. This will be great. Yeah. This is going to be such a good skill for you because you know this better than we do. But in that field, the people who are successful, most successful in that field do one thing very well. They manage stress. Yeah. Okay.

Because firefighters, emergency workers, shift workers, they burn out. It's a very common thing. Burnout, injury, hormone dysfunction. the ones who can do it manage stress and recovery very well. So this is like perfect timing right before we get in there. We got you. Yeah. And then another thing I wanted to ask is so right now, like in general, what my shift work

looks like is five on, five off. So my night shifts are 14 hours and my day shifts are 10 hours. So what I've been doing is on my working days, I don't work out. I just do like active like walks or like something small. and then on my off days is when I'm training. Do you think that's a good way to... You're on the right track. You're definitely on the right track.

Definitely on the right track. It'll be much more structured, much more individualized. What your coach is going to probably do, like if I was working with you, I have a good idea of how I'd start you, but then I'd monitor you and adjust on the fly. But you're on the right track, definitely. Like more of...

You'll be able to apply more exercise stress on your days off, far less on the days where you work. And so you're totally on the right track. Okay. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, Olivia, let me have somebody call you. Okay, sounds good. And then if I got your permission,

I'd like to hop on some of these calls and say hi to you. Yeah, yeah, of course. Let's go. Sounds good. All right, Olivia. Thank you, you guys. Appreciate it. You got it.

I love when I hear a young 20-something-year-old be like, I've been doing this for years. I want to learn how to do it right. when you get your hands on somebody this age, you know, the changes you can make that just change the trajectory of their life is phenomenal. And I've had a few clients like this. It's great. You're probably like a MAP 15 pro call is more appropriate for her right now.

I mean, with that type of a schedule that she, you know, which will be such a hard thing for a huge shift for her. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Go do two or two lives. It'd be really beneficial to her recovery. By the way, with her mentality, of course, you want to do that way. Thankfully, she's super resilient right now, so.

Our next caller is Alana from New Jersey. Hi, Alana. How are you doing, Alana? Hi, guys. This is surreal. How can we help you? Welcome. I'm going to do what everybody else does.

I'm going to say first, thank you for all the information. You guys are fantastic. I'm so happy I found you. And I'm just going to read directly from the question to same time. Let's go. Let's get it. So I'd like some advice on how to move forward and some explanation after a disheartening Dexa. I'm going to give you as much of as possible.

I'm 38. 5, 4, 113 pounds. I have a history of eating disorders in my 20s, where I was eating like 1,000 calories a day. And then aside from that very restrictive eating, about 1,500 calories a day since I was 14. So two years ago, I started working with a coach to go through my first bulk and cut cycle, went really well, had my first DECA after that, and it was 24% body fat, even though I was 4 pounds heavier than when I started. So that was a win.

Then after my year with my coach, I stayed at maintenance and then tried another cut and got down to 20.1% body fat. And then I wanted to do a traditional bulk and cut cycle on my own. So I bumped up my calories from 2150 maintenance to 2,200. So it wasn't enough really to be considered a bulk, but I was scared to kind of do it on my own. But I did, you know, like 30 minutes a day, five days a week, split. made a ton of rep and weight PRs, 10K steps a day.

Strength definitely increased and all of a sudden I could do unassesseded pull-ups. And I have a home gym. So I, you know, I chest press like 100 pounds because I have no one to spot me. But like I felt good about that. Good. So things looked like they were going in the right direction. And then I did a 10-week cut at 17 to 1800 calories. and I hate cuts because of the history of the eating disorders.

They can be kind of triggering. But, you know, I did it. I kept my lips. They were all maintained. I bumped up the steps like two or 13, two or three thousand steps more. And I thought it looked great. Like all of a sudden I had all this muscle definition. My shoulders were bigger, you know, compared to pictures.

Everything looked like it was in the right direction. And then I got another Texas scam. And it showed me that I had. had increased my body fat 1%, and that I'd only gained 0.3 pounds of muscle mass. And I thought, like, how the heck could that be possible? And I know there's a margin for error and all that, but, you know, and everything was, you know, protein was kept high. Sleep is seven and a half hours on average.

And my goal was like 18 to 19% body fat. So I guess I'm just asking a couple of questions. questions, right? What happened with the Daxa? How can I be more, I guess, competent in reverse dieting to know when I've hit my maintenance, when I hit a true bulk? And also, what MAPS program would you suggest? Because I don't have any of them. Yeah, good question. Thanks for calling in. A lot, what are your steps like on a regular basis? What's your activity level? It's about 12 to 13,000 steps. Okay, that's what I would guess. That's the only cardio I do. So let me, let's go back.

You mind if I ask you some more questions, we'll go back a little bit? Yeah. When you worked with the coach and you did your first, you know, when you said you were able to bump your calories, body fat at 24%, that process, that whole process. What was that experience like for you? It was awesome. It was, especially the reverse diet that she put me on initially because I was eating 1,500 calories a day.

And, you know, she was bumping me up 100 calories every week or so. And I was actually watching scale go down. It was like my metabolism wasn't, you know, so suppressed anyway. more and it was really cool. What were the scary parts of it? Um, it was it was the weight gain, you know, I, I had never been at a point in my life where I was purposefully trying to gain weight. Yeah. So, but so that's why I was so happy to have her because she, she would talk me down from the ledge of like, you know, no, this is normal. This is what we want. You need to, you know, gain mass and that's going to mean the scale's going to go up. Yeah, for sure. Now, and logically,

you know all that. But let's say you tried that on your own without the coach. Do you think you have stopped at some point? I guess so. I guess so because when I did try to do the bulk on my own, I went from like 2150 to 2250. It was like a hundred calorie increase in me thinking, oh, that's enough. That's going to do. And I know now, thanks to you guys, that was not enough.

Totally, totally. And then when you did that and you felt good, you're like, man, I'm strong. I get energy. What was the, what convinced you to try to cut the calories again to 1700? You know, it was, it was the fact that I wanted to get down to that, you know, 18 to 19% body fat. It really was kind of like a vanity metric, you know? So I thought, oh, like, you know, I have good muscle. Let me just, let me just do another quick cut to get it down.

But it did not pan out of the way. Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. And I totally get how you feel through this process. There's a disconnect that happens with this, with people who struggle with, you know, fear of gaining or fear of losing, that was me, where there's a disconnect between your mind, which is what you know what's right, and also your heart, which is what you feel.

So it's like, I know this is the right thing, but oh my God, this is scary, and it doesn't feel right type of deal. First off, I'm going to encourage you. It's well within the margin of error. Your dexas scan was well within the margin of error. Okay, so what you probably did is you cut your calories and still maintained.

So nothing happened. The only thing that happened is you eat less. Now, I'm going to tell you what could have happened. What could have happened is you continue to reverse diet and you would have got better and better results. Yeah, but it's scary. Yeah. It's a scary process. So I'll tell you what I think you need to do, and then I'll tell you what I think will work best for you.

What you need to do is you need to stop focusing on cutting for a while. And I want you to think build, build, build, build. I'm going to build my body. I'm not going to cut my body. I'm going to build my body. And it's actually going to give you what you're looking for. Your calories are, you know, 5-4 with as much as you exercise and as consistent as you are. You probably don't ever miss a workout.

You're going to get your calories up in the high 2,000s. Yep. Maybe even three. Right now I'm at, so since the initial email, I've gone from at the beginning of June, 2150, to right now I'm at 2400. I've only gained like a pound, a pound and a half. So through this process, you're going to need to stop weighing yourself. Now, there's nothing wrong with weighing yourself because what you're weighing, a pound could be whatever. Could be muscle, probably.

Could be water. But building into the body you want, your height and weight is probably going to look like a heavier weight. But you're leaner. You're leaner, you're stronger, and you look better. But you're going to be heavier on the scale. The scale probably messes you up. And I would imagine you probably weigh yourself daily. How many times a day do you weigh yourself?

Be honest. I'm just one in the morning. Just one? Yeah. Okay. So every single day you weigh yourself. And that number is going to mess you up on this process. 24 is still low.

I can see you getting up to like 28, 29, maybe even 3,000, maybe higher. That's exciting. Yeah. And you'll be really surprised at how you feel and how you look with that. But it's going to be a bit of a process. The one thing that the coach did with you that I think was that you mentioned that was really valuable. And I'd love your opinion on this is the talking you off the ledge through the process. Yeah.

So if we're going to do this right, you're going to probably need to work with a coach again, probably for the next six months or so to be able to do this properly. Because through this process, you're going to want to stop. You're going to get up to 25, maybe 2550, maybe 26. Okay, this is high enough to cut. Let me get back on a cut. type of deal and you're going to totally thwart the potential progress. So you're going to be moving up for a long, for a while without a single cut. Meanwhile, accomplishing body comp change through that process.

So what would you suggest like six months? It's, it's, we're probably looking at six to nine months of just strength and building without a single cut. And you think you think upwards of 28, 29. How do you know? How do you know when, when, when. the upper limit is. I mean, I don't know for sure, but based on my experience and working with people like you,

your height, your size, and you, like I said, you're consistent with your workouts. You take a lot of steps every single day. That's typically where we fall. Typically. But I don't know. Could be higher. I mean, there are some young women we've worked with who built muscle very well doing this, who got them in the low to mid-3,000s, and they were smaller than you are.

That's, I love, I love the, it's, that's the thing. Like I wanted to come on here and almost, I hate to say it, but like get the permission that that was not too high. It's not. It's not. Let me tell you what's going to be different. This is so close to home for me because this is, your numbers are almost right in line with Corinne when we first started. The hard part is going to be this. When I, when I bump you 200 calories or 300 calories one week, you're going through your cycle.

you see the scale you decide to get on there after I told you not to and you see four pounds go up and on top of that you feel fluffy or you see water weight and you feel for sure

we're putting body fat on and we're totally fine and I know we're totally fine that's going to be the hard part and that's going to happen through this process and so preparing yourself mentally for those weeks that you'll have

is important this is where the coach will come in really really hand is, and this is where she leans on me a lot, is like, you, you have a distorted vision of yourself, just like she does. Like, she sees herself differently. Like, she'll tell me, oh, my God, I feel this way to my, I'm like, you're crazy. I'm looking at you and you look great and we're doing great and we're fine. You're holding a little bit of water. We're on our period right now. Relax. You I'm saying.

That's what water is going to come right out in about four days. And you're going to all of a sudden feel way better. So relax. We're doing good. Stay the course. And so that's the difficult part of what, but what Sal is saying, easily we could get up to 27, 20, easily 27, 200, maybe more than that. And that'll actually drop the body fat percentage.

So what it'll probably look like is five, six more pounds on the scale and a lower body fat percentage and higher calories. And you'll love. the way you will love the way you look but it'll take some time because again you we're all guilty of this by the way too i know we're sitting here talking to you but i'm guilty of this like we all pick our own bodies apart and when you look in the mirror you can't help but look right at your flaw right away first you don't look at the positive things that's happening and so it helps just to have a second pair of eyes that's reminding you like no you look great you're doing great that's normal and just

stay the course but yeah it's a it's a few months down the road but it's definitely a higher calorie place, a lot more muscle, and a lot easier, too. Yeah. Do you, just to give you even more of an extreme example, Atlanta, what's your, so your body weight right now? What are you weighing right now? 113. Okay, so you're 113.

Body fat percentage is sitting low to mid-20s? Yeah, it's probably 20, 21. Or stats are almost identical. Okay. So let's say you're 21% body fat right now, okay? And let's say you gained 10 pounds on the scale. So now you're 123. and your body fat percentage is still 21%.

I'm going to tell you what happened. Okay. You gained muscle and you also gained some body fat. 21% of 123 is more pounds of body fat than 21% of 113. Does that make sense? Yes. So you still gave body fat, but your body fat percentage remain the same. But here's the difference.

You're heavy on the scale. You might even feel bigger in your clothes. You look great. And you've got a much faster metabolism. And this is tough for a lot of people because they see the scale. They feel their genes. And they're like, I know my body fat percentage is right around the same, but I'm heavier. I feel bigger and they freak out.

But you're crushing. You're kicking butt. So your mentality's got to go more towards strength and muscle. You're going to really make that switch. And that's what will make this work. And it's going to set you up. What's going to set you up for good hormones, good energy, great libido, great motivation. I can eat more.

I'm flexible with my diet. I mean, I can eat at 3,000 calories, which means I can go out on the weekend and enjoy a few things and it doesn't bother me. I don't have to, like, keep my hands on the steering wheel so tight. That's what it's going to feel like. But you've got to be okay with and understand that the scale might look different. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was the thing that bothered me is like I felt all of the right things, but then it said I almost gained no muscle mass.

I was like, how could that be? Like my shoulders are way bigger than they were. Like how? And I liked the way that I loved that. I was like, I don't know how that could be. Yeah, this is when Dexas scans can be a real pain in the ass. I mean, it also happens, though. It happens also, too, when you've been running too low of calorie for a very long time. I don't know if you've listened to the episode when I revealed Corin's first Dexas scan. That happened to us. I was so excited because she was hitting PRs.

We were doing everything was supposed to happen to the way. And she put weight on and it was all body fat. Zero muscle. Imagine me, who've been doing this as long as I. have coaching her. I tell her to get the Dexter scan because I'm excited. Oh man, did I feel it was just too soon? Because I hadn't got her body in a place that it needed to be balanced and hormonally where it needed to go.

She needed to put body fat percentage on before we started to put muscle on. I jumped the gun and had that reading too early. And so it's very possible. And what that is is your body signaling it needs more, it needed more body fat. It needs more calories. And so you can see a lot of things like in the gym positive and you can feel like they're moving positive. And then you go do the dexticcan.

And it goes, no, we just put body fat on right now because we need it. And here's a crazy thing. We let a number tell us how we're supposed to feel. Yeah. Even though we feel good. So it's like, man, I feel great. And then you get this report card and you're like, no, I don't feel great. It's like, this means nothing.

I feel amazing. I feel strong. I look good. So that's the prescription. I don't think it'll, I think you're going to have a tough time doing it by yourself. That's fair. I think hard. I think it would be a good idea for you to work with a coach for six to nine months and then get used to the process and then at the end of it, it won't be so hard.

Okay. Okay. Can I have somebody call you? Yeah. All right. That'd be great. All right. And also what maps program would you suggest?

They're going to customize it for you. Yeah. Okay. That's all included and then they'll customize it just for you. Awesome. All right. You're going to do good. Yep.

Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Of course. Bye. Recording. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, South So,

she was, if she just, even if she didn't go more on a reverse type, she just stayed at the 2250, oh yeah, yeah. She would have done way better.

Yeah, I mean, the fact that they, they, I'm surprised the coach let her cut. I would have been like. No, he didn't, or she didn't.

When she was with the coach, it was reversed side. This is when she did it on her own. Oh, because I was like, man, she should just kept going. Totally.

That's what I would have done. I mean, she saw scale go, or she saw the scale go, down while she was increasing calories. She went from 2150 to 2250. That was her bulk. It was 100 extra calories.

I mean, these are these are Karen numbers. Yep. She weighs almost exact same on the scale, similar in height, similar in the calorie maintenance, similar in the steps. Yeah, very, very, very similar. And, you know, I'm constantly trying to push Corinne to the high 2,000 calories. And this is the pushback I get. It's like, it feels like a lot.

You know, and you go through that phase. of it feels fluffy, it feels uncomfortable. Sometimes one of the best things to do with people like that is to completely take them away from body comp, completely take them away from aesthetics and move them completely towards performance. You're going to do a powerlifting competition. So you just don't even think about that.

That's such a hard thing to bring. The hardest part about that, though, is that that's the thing that they want. I know, I'm saying. So it's like... That's what I mean. It's like, we've got to want something else for a little while. Yeah, yeah, to ask them to let go of the reason

why they're wanting you to help them is to get to a certain place and then you go like we're going to completely not focus on that is a really tough thing totally yeah our next caller is joey from tennessee joey hey guys how's it going good man good what's up big dad good hey guys so sorry in advance i got my got my hands full today no word you do beautiful family we have our have a little have a four year old and then we got a little seven-month-old here so uh basically my question is how to how to how to get started how to stay consistent because of you know these two and then my work schedule I try to wake up early on days that I don't work hang on baby hang on and it's just I'm not quite able to like I try to set my alarm for 430 or 5 o'clock and every day I just I can't it's it's hard I'm

not an early morning riser and I can't. I feel that. I can't get to the garage and get to the, I've got a garage jam. I can't get myself up and motivated to, to get up and going that early in the morning, even though my work schedule is a six to six on my days off. I'm ready to sleep in a little bit.

So I was wondering, would it be better to get more, quality sleep or would it be better to just stay up a little bit later and get a workout in at night since I have a gym in the garage? Yeah. Good question. And do you mind if I read through your email a little bit just for? Absolutely.

Okay. So you got what's happening right now, you've been consistent before, but what you're finding now is it's very hard to be consistent. Yes. You work a rotating shift. Yes. Okay. And what this looks like is 36 hours one week and 48 hours the next week in the

work schedule rotates every 28 days. So, yes. 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. for 28 days. And then you go 6 p.m. to 6 a.m.

for 28 days. Correct. Okay. And you also got kids, little ones. Well, you got two little ones. Do you know why it's hard for you to wake up

and work out? Yeah. It's a job just exhausted. Yeah, man. First of all, that schedule's rough. First of all, you're a good man.

You're doing good stuff, bro. You're prioritizing the right things. What we need to do is we need to use exercise in a way to improve your quality of life. Okay? So we got to look at it that way. I'll tell you what it looks like. And it's going to be a lot less than what you think. I'll tell you what it looks like.

It's map 15 when you can. And it's when you're home at 6 o'clock at night. It's not trying to get up early and disrupt the sleep patterns that you already have disrupted. It's when you have the time, it's too little. And what it looks like actually, because you have kids and they're probably still going to be awake, when he comes straight home from work, is you go in the garage and you maybe even bring them or you bring the little one.

But like this is when Max, like we would set up his little table to be playing with Play-Doh and then I would do one or two sets. And then I'd be playing with him for 10, 15 minutes. I'd have a 10-15 minute rest between the next set. That's okay. Right. You know what I'm saying?

And it's okay if you only get one exercise done and then you're back in the house for a while and you get you taking stuff and then you go back and you do another, like give yourself the permission to lift like that. It's actually really good. It's totally okay. And with a MAPS 15 type of protocol, you're only knocking out two exercises a day.

And so when you come in and out of the workout, those two exercises could take you two hours because you're doing stuff, which is totally okay. Or you do it all at once and it takes you 20 minutes. Yeah, or sometimes the kids are totally engulfed in the Play-Doh and having a good time and ones maybe naping.

And you get the both exercises done in the 15, 20 minutes you're supposed to and you're done. Yeah. So that, but give yourself, the permission for it to look like that. Now, if you're really tired and you're really exhausted, you skip that day and you just jump back on the next day.

I was just say, too, within the Maps 15, it has like an advanced and the regular programming where you actually have like a TRX suspension trainer. I think some days, too, if you feel like a little less intensity, would be appropriate. I would do that plan and then, you know, kind of alternate and toggle between the two. Basically what it looks like, Joey, is just a little bit every day. Yeah. That's it. Okay. And the days you skip, you just jump back on.

Go ahead. Yeah, sorry. Along that line, I've got MAPS prime. How would you, and also have, I mean, I've got a lot of L stuff, how would you incorporate or would you even worry about trying to incorporate Max Prime and then also the No BS Sixpack Formula? You're not going to do any, you're not going to add the No BS Sixpack Formula. Yeah.

With Prime, if you have any issues where you notice mobility issues, you can only throughout the day. You can practice at any time of the day. Yeah. You're at work, whatever. You practice. Do those moves whenever you can. Some of the mobility movements that are in there.

That's it. But otherwise, the Mass 15 workout is just a workout. Yeah. Okay. So like last week I went, I set up my barbell because I got this one down for a nap. And as soon as I started up, I kind of did maybe two warm-up sets. and then started my first working set. And as soon as I did, she woke up.

Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So I wanted, I ended up, you know, kind of suther on her down 30 minutes later. Would I just go back straight to a working step? Yes. Right back to it. It's 30 minutes.

Yes. Yes. Totally. Yes. Totally. So essentially, your CNET, a warm up is designed really to kind of make your body move the way it should. So it kind of helps with what's called muscle recruitment patterns. A warm up or connecting actually lasts for a few hours.

Now, the stronger you are, the less true this is. So if you're out there warming up to do a 350-pound squat, then you might want to do another warm-up set before you jump into it. So the stronger you get, the more careful you've got to be with your warm-up. But if you're like just trying to string some days of exercise together, I wouldn't worry about it. Also, I got some blood work done last week, and I've listened to y'all, probably a year and a half or so. My testosterone came back laughably like.

It was 164. So I told my primary care that I would like to get it up as much as I can naturally. But how much would I even expect to be able to get it up naturally with it being that low just from lifting, eating right? Well, I'm going to tell you, the biggest issue that you have with your testosterone is your switching, you're massively switching schedule. Yeah. You're having a dramatic shift in circadian rhythm every 28 days. Right. It's such a big circadian switch that it takes about a.

week and a half to two weeks to adjust. And then you have a week or two before you got to do it again. Every now and then I'm able to, I'm able to swap with a counterpart that's on the opposite schedule. So I am able to every now and then work. Well, Joey, are you, are you planning to have? At the 28th I'm able to work the 52. Joey, are you planning on having more kids?

What was that sound? Are you planning on having more kids? I lost them. I will we'll see. I don't plan on it. Right now. So that's a, that's an argument for, that's argument for another day. So I don't know how much you can raise your testosterone naturally because here's a deal.

We could double it and it would still be kind of low. Yeah. So, so what I, what you might want to do is you might want to work. So our partners at nphormonos.com, either they could put you on testosterone, but if you on having more kids, I would say hold off, but you could take something called enclomophene. Inchlorine will raise your testosterone. We'll start with that. And that'll raise your testosterone significantly. Yeah, but even if he goes on testosterone, he can run ac and he can still get He could, but they're always iffy, right? But, you know, so there's, there's options. And I do think

that you need, you would want some, a little bit of medical intervention for the testosterone. It'll be like, it'll be like life, it'll be like life's turned on. Oh my God, it'll be life changing. It'll be life changing with where your levels are at and how. you feel and everything you're doing, it'll feel life-changing. So you're very much so a candidate. You can use a lift. Yeah. So I honestly, I don't know if the natural route while you maintain this crazy schedule

is going to do a lot. Yeah. So I do think a little medical intervention would probably be a good idea while you're working this way. Okay. You're, you're, we typically push people to go all natural, check all the boxes for your good kid. You're 36 years old.

You have two kids. You have a crazy work schedule. you're a good candidate for somebody to have a medical intervention right now. And that doesn't mean you can't down the road, say kids are older, life has changed, come off and try and redo it naturally. So it's not like once you choose to start taking HRT,

you can never not try and boost it naturally later down the road. You could also, I mean, you could also have kids while on testosterone using HCG. So there's options. I think that would help you a lot with your work and life. for sure. Yeah. Yes.

All right. Blink if you're okay. I think that pretty much covers it. All right, man. All right, Joe. We'll send you Mass 15. Yeah, we'll see you mass 15. Go to MP hormones.com, bro.

Go to nphormosons. Okay. We will go to MP hormones. All right, brother. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it, guys. Take it easy. It's the swing schedule.

Oh, my God. That was a horrible schedule. Bro. What was this? You showed the study, too, just on when men have babies, too, their levels go down. Yeah.

So already having kids, yeah, having two kids, first of all, there's already stress of having the kids. There's a stress of the schedule. Then you got, you know,

a circadian switch that is opposite. Is the hardest thing. So think about this. You travel to a new country with a nine hour time. I've done this. It's like the other side of the world.

Yeah. When I go, when I fly to Italy, which is what, a nine hour difference? It takes me like, honestly, like five days to kind of feel

normal. That's a nine hour difference. His is a flip. Yeah. He's going for being a 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. He's going to live on the moon for... He's flipping completely. You know? And so that's good. You'll kill your hormones. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump media. We'll see you. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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