Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2926: 5 Fitness Secrets That Guarantee Long Term Success

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

MAPS BOGO: https://mapsbogo.com Buy one get one free — mix and match any of the top 10 most popular programs (Anabolic, Aesthetic, Performance, 15 Minutes, Anywhere, Symmetry, Starter, Muscle Mommy, Powerlift, 40+) for $157. In this episode the guys break down 5 powerful fitness secrets that guarantee long term success — focusing on performance over leanness, health over aesthetics, discipline over motivation, grace over shame, and just having fun. They also get into Super Patch sleep patches and the measurable REM improvements Sal noticed after a camping trip, Adam's tour of the Atlanta Falcons training facility and the insane technology they use to monitor player speed, effort and output in real time, an AI agent in Australia that hacked a gym's scheduling system on its own to book its user a spin class, drone warfare in Ukraine and the Lioness season 2 premiere, rancid fish oil and the problem with fake avocado oil in processed foods, and Sal considering buying a motorhome after his first RV camping trip with his kids. Then they coach live callers submitted through mplivecaller.com.   Mind Pump Fitness Coaching: https://mindpumpfitnesscoaching.com 1.9 NASM CEUs   T-Shirt Winners: Apple Podcasts: Epic Go Facebook: Kevin Bell Send name, shirt size and shipping address to: https://mindpumpmedia.com   SPONSORS   Kion (fish oil and amino acids): https://getkion.com/mindpump 20% off automatically applied at checkout. High quality, fresh fish oil discussed on air — rancid fish oil problem in most grocery store brands.   Super Patch: https://mindpump.superpatch.com No code needed, use URL for $30 off. Sleep and REM patches — Sal discusses measurable difference after camping trip.   Joymode (sexual performance booster): https://tryjoymode.com/mindpump Code: MINDPUMP for 20% off first order. Natural, science-backed formula — L-Citrulline, Arginine, Yohimbine and Vitamin C.   LINKS   Submit a live caller question: https://mplivecaller.com Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   0:00 - Intro 2:39 - 5 fitness secrets that guarantee long term success 3:47 - Secret 1: Performance over leanness — why chasing fitness beats chasing the scale 10:46 - Secret 2: Health over aesthetics — the balance that makes fitness sustainable 20:55 - Secret 3: Discipline over motivation — why motivation fails and discipline builds 28:28 - Secret 4: Grace over shame — why beating yourself up guarantees failure 33:25 - Secret 5: Just have fun — the most overlooked key to lifelong fitness 35:14 - Super Patch sleep patches — what Sal noticed after his camping trip 37:58 - Adam's Atlanta Falcons training camp tour — the tech they use to monitor every player 46:18 - AI agent hacks a gym on its own to book a spin class in Australia 48:01 - Lioness season 2 — drone warfare in Ukraine and how modern war is fought 51:37 - Rancid fish oil and fake avocado oil in processed foods — what the studies show 53:39 - Sal's RV camping trip — his son cried for 30 minutes when they left 1:05:45 - Caller: Tice (California) — massage therapist, chronic pain, 3 months post-coaching with Zach, needs community 1:47:30 - Caller: Andrew (Ontario) — heavy equipment operator, 14-days-in rotation, 6 months of progress 1:55:20 - Caller: Joseph (Australia) — ACL reconstruction at 19, 40% quad imbalance, wants to dunk a basketball

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded health, fitness, and entertainment podcast in the history of the universe. Approaching over half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we had live callers call in, and we got to coach them on air.

We helped them with their health and fitness. but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 61 minutes long. That's what we talked about, fitness and muscle gain, strength, fat loss, nutrition, current events. It's always a good time. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this, send your question to mp.life caller.com.

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show. Long-term fitness success, getting the body you want, moving the way you want, getting the health that you want consistently over the course of your entire life is very difficult. I'm going to be quite honest. I can't guarantee it. I just can't. However, I can get pretty close. We're going to cover five things that all but guarantee fitness success. This was learned. through decades of training and coaching regular people. You want to get in shape, you want to stay in shape, pay attention. We're going to give you the hacks. Let's go.

These first two will be, I don't know something controversial, but I think that it will be difficult for people to shift their mindset. Yes, 100%. All of these are going to be difficult. But the key to what we're about to talk about is what we're going to talk about is going to get you where you think you want to go better. than focusing on what you think you want. I know that sounds confusing,

but I'll start with the first one, okay? Most people start working out, or, to put differently, the number one fitness goal that people have when they start exercising is to get leaner or to lose weight. Yeah, whatever driving them there is like, typically it's an aesthetic focus.

Yeah, so it's always losing weight. If we had to go boil it down, it's losing weight. I would say, of all the clients that I trained and all the gyms that I managed, I mean, you're easily 80%. at least of the people walking in there. This would be one of their top goals,

if not the number one goal. So lose weight. Sure. And I get that. Being overweight is associated with lots of different health issues. But most, I would say, importantly, it affects how we look and it doesn't make us feel good. And I say importantly, not because that's more important, but rather this is really what people focus on. Now, here's a challenge with that.

If you focus hard on losing weight and getting leaner, it actually makes it more difficult. I know that sounds crazy because you need a target, but I'll give you a better target. This is a better target. Focus on performance. Go to the gym to become fit. Go to the gym to get stronger and to build stamina and endurance and mobility. Go to the gym to become a more fit version of yourself.

This almost always, almost always leads to a leaner physique. It also is a goal that is easier to maintain. It's way more sustainable. More sustainable. And it's harder to treat yourself poorly when you're focusing on performance because your performance will suffer when you start to do things that aren't so good for you. Versus, I mean, I can do a lot of things that aren't good for me that'll make my scale weight go down. And I can ignore how crappy I feel. And I can ignore the way that I starve myself or treat myself because the scale's going down.

But if you try to treat yourself poorly with all these other things, what you'll find is your performance will drop. You're just not going to be as fit. You can't do those things to yourself and expect to get stronger and improve endurance. A lot of things have to be done right to improve performance. And I'll say this, this is mostly true. As your performance improves, so does your quality of life. Whereas as the scale weight goes down, the quality of life doesn't always improve.

Well, that's why I always like strength is a focus. I know performance in general, obviously, but to your point of everything has to be correct. Like you have to feed yourself the correct amount for you to be able to grow muscle. And you have to get adequate amount of recovery for you to be able to adapt and actually build. And all these factors have to play in for you to progress

and to see that progression in strength and in performance. Whereas you could make decisions, tempting decisions to temperate. temporarily, you know, really drastically cut calories, really kind of put yourself in a place where, you know, you're going against kind of what your body needs. Now, a little pushback on this point because, what is it, it's been about a year, maybe two years now, when it's been two years, when the big health at any size movement was being pushed. And I forget the young lady's name that was kind of the face of that and was on the magazine covers doing headstands. and, you know, yoga moves and doing, you know, working out, lifting weights and doing her thing. You know, this was pushed, I would say, to the extreme of like, you know, you can be any size and you can be really overweight.

You could be obese. She was obese. And still, you know, be chasing performance and all these things. So what do you say to that? because there's obviously people that still have a major issue with eating and a bad relationship with food and could be training, lifting weights, doing yoga, practicing headstands, but then obviously grossly overconsuming to maintain a weight like that. Yeah, there's the most dangerous lies are the ones that have their foundations in a truth, right?

So if you were, let's say you're 50 pounds overweight but fit, meaning you've got good VO2 max, good strength, good mobility, you do have better health than if you were the right body weight but not fit. That's actually true. That's actually a fact. The lie is that being 50 pounds overweight has no impact on your health. That it doesn't make a difference. And that's what they sold, which is an actual lie.

That being said, I will say this. Some of the most consistent members I ever had in any of the gyms that I ever managed were people that were purely there to improve their athletic performance and their fitness. By the way, they did not fall in the category of the healthy at any size, you know, that lie. These people didn't buy that lie. They just were in the gym because they like to be fit. They like to be athletic. They like to have stamina. And they like to have strength.

And I'm going to tell you this right now. Very few of them more overweight. the side effect of their fitness was that they looked pretty fit. They looked relatively fit. But yeah, there is an impact on your health when it comes to excessive body fat. There's also an impact on your health when you're underweight as well. So there's a lie there. But if your goal is genuine and you're going to the gym and you're sincerely like, look, here's a deal.

I know I need to lose weight. But for now, here's what I'm going to focus on, man. I want to be able to run. I want to be able to lift. I want to be able to move. I want to be able to swim. I want my body to move well. It's going to be really hard to be 70 pounds overweight and do all of those things.

And so what you'll find if you genuinely pursue performance in a genuine way, that the leanness or the weight loss or the fat loss tends to follow. Now, here's what doesn't happen. You typically don't get shredded. And shredded does not lend itself to performance, even though we see in social media, you'll see, you know, people who are 5% body fat. For most people, a body fat percentage that is associated with good athletic performance. And the men is in the mid-teens and in the women, it's in the low 20s.

So by the way, this performance will perfect, will help protect you from going in that direction as well. There's a lot of fitness enthusiasts or say, say fitness fanatics who are so obsessed with the mirror and body fat percentage, they completely sacrifice health and performance in pursuit of being shredded. And so for them, focusing on performance would do the opposite will help them gain body fat, which would be better for them. Yeah. So performance is. Well, I think that what your point and where you're going feeds right into your second point,

which is health over aesthetics. Yes. And so if your foundation is focus on performance over trying to get lean, typically you get in a pretty good, healthy range there. I brought up an exception to the rule of what happens in some case. But then if that exception of the rule were to focus on the health over aesthetics portion, because you have to be honest with yourself that you're not eating healthy. If you are training for performance in the gym and you're still morbidly overbeats,

you're definitely not eating in a... You're still a high risk factor. Yeah, and you're not eating in a way. You're not chasing being truly healthy. You might be chasing being stronger or more mobile or from that perspective, performance, but you're missing the other side as far as nourishment and taking care of yourself. Yeah, but, I mean, again, just to be, just to encourage those people, because the diet part, not to go off too off on a side tangent here,

but the diet part is, you guys would agree, is way harder than the workout part. Yeah, of course. Yeah, if you're going to a gym and you're like, man, I am struggling with the diet part. That is the hardest part. First off, that's 100% true for everybody. But you're like, I'm making it to the gym three days a week. And I'm consistent. And you know what?

I'm working hard. And you know what? I love it. But the diet part's really hard. And I'm just going to focus on that later. I'm not even going to worry about that right now because it's too hard for me to focus on. I'm just going to go to the gym three days a week and I'm just going to try and get fit. Keep going.

You're doing great. Keep going. Don't worry about it for now. That second part will come. I had a lot of clients like that. and the nutrition part did come later on, but they were consistent with their workouts. Now, the health over aesthetics,

this is important because placing aesthetics over health can actually look or actually masquerade his health quite a bit. When I think of people that place aesthetics over health, what comes to mind for me, and this is mainly because I work in this space and I have for decades, are the people that are the fitness obsessed. The fitness obsessed that sacrifice health in pursuit of aesthetics.

And what it looks like is they eat perfect. They never eat outside of their diet. They never skip a workout. And the way they look is just too high a priority on their list. And they sacrifice the health of their relationships and their mental health in pursuit of this particular look. So health over aesthetics looks like balance. It naturally looks like balance to the fitness fanatic and to, to,

To the non-fitness fanatic, to the couch potato. Just trying to be healthy. I'm going to let the couch potato understand this here. If you're just trying to be healthy and that's your goal, your aesthetics will follow. They will always follow. Getting healthier always looks better. Getting healthier, it looks better. Can you change how you look in pursuit of what, say, what the world says is aesthetic and actually sacrifice your health?

You better believe it. There's a lot of terrible things you can do yourself to try to look better. That will sacrifice your health. here's the irony of that. Your health gets bad enough. Your aesthetics is gone. Really bad health. It looks like really bad aesthetics.

And then again, to the fitness fanatic, you got to ask yourself what you're placing on top. Because if aesthetics is on the top, the sacrifice will be health. And you will sacrifice it on the altar of aesthetics. And it will be a miserable life. You will reduce your quality life as a result. So health needs to be over aesthetics. But if you do that, what this can turn into. to, if you're consistent with this, it's this wonderful, consistent relationship with fitness.

That feels really good. I do find that having that healthy balance nutritionally can be so challenging. This is top of mind for me right now because I had a weekend where Katrina and I ate out. I had some dessert one day. I had a couple glasses of wine at dinner with Doug. We just, I had an, it was, this was one of those times where it's like, this is what we're, we're having that balance, right? I've been dialed in with our meal prepping and training and being all real good. And then we have that.

What I find is so tough is not that moment, but the, what follows the next day, how those create, because the way food, um, has been engineered, uh, that when you kind of open that can of worms. Is that wild? Like, how do you go? It's momentum. Man, it does. It really does. So Sundays are my days for prep, right? And getting ready for the week.

And I find myself, and this was Saturday that we went up to the event with the team, stayed in a nice hotel, had some nice drink, set a nice dinner, had dessert. Had a great time. It was incredible. Didn't work out, right? That wasn't on the agenda. And great. I actually felt my body needed it.

I've been managing, managed. maintenance are lower calories, so being well fed and overeating felt actually good. Felt healthy, filled out, felt awesome. But then the next day on Sunday, which is get back on my thing and meal prep, the cravings are there. Now, I resisted and ate well and did good, but I think that's where a lot of people struggle is that... You know, it makes it the hardest struggle is when it hits you and it catches you off guard.

Yeah. Because, you know, like with clients, how often do we tell them? Hey, just prepare. You know you're going on vacation. It's going to be much harder when you come back to stay consistent than it is right now. I think anticipating that makes a big difference. But for sure, they could do brain imaging, and they'll show that your brain, the neural connections will start to adjust to this hyper-palatable experience.

Then you go back to your normal food. You're like, this is boring. So it's definitely more difficult. And I think that's where the health fanatics borderline, you know, orthorrients. rexic people, right? Justify this. They know that, right? They know how much they can go off the rails.

And so it's this like control of like, I got to, I got to bring my meals. I got to do all those things because they don't trust themselves to maybe have a healthy night of eating and drinking and enjoying family and your people around you and then go right back to where you need to be. You know what the irony is is when I was most in that place, if I did like go on a vacation and go quote unquote off my diet, it was like, because I've gone off, now I'm going to go way way off.

Versus now that it's more balanced, that doesn't really happen to be as much. Yeah. You know, I remember that specifically. I go on a vacation, and I'd be like, okay, well, I guess I'm going off. And then it became about that. Yeah.

The vacation became about eating all this crazy indulgence. That's why. That's why. Yeah, you're like, oh, let's get it in. I mean, this is why I brought it up. I mean, because this is literally yesterday, the day before and I experienced that I and I feel like as I've gotten older I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before that that that pendulum swing is is much smaller now it used

to be real it was dialed hardcore weighing measuring tracking everything and then it was like ah all well so that that swing is very subtle now but I still remember it and I and I can feel that that temptation on the day back of because the cravings it kicked up because you open that can of worms day before now I don't feel like I at the white knuckle through it. It's just like, oh, I know. Like, I'm aware of it. I think to your point, awareness is such a big piece of it. It's like, I know why. I feel like that way. It's like, we got one of the things that we, Katrina wanted popcorn and the only way you could get popcorn in room service was this, I forget what they called it. It was like a, um, it came with candy

and stuff about it. Yeah, it was a movie kit. Yes. Yeah, it was a movie kit or something like that. Right. So yeah. I just want the popcorn, dude. Yeah, that's all she wanted. They're like, they don't sell it individually to get this like, we'd get this movie kit thing. with that, which came with Snickers bar, Kit Kat, and then all the stuff. We can't let it go away. And so, of course, right? So I bring it home with us. And I know it's in the freezer.

I'm like, I couldn't tell you the last time I had a Kit Kat, you know. But knowing I had that eight, the day before, knowing it's in there and it's just like that, I'll just go eat that. It's like, that's how it is so difficult, I think, for a lot of people to do that, especially right after you kind of open that can of worms. Now, I know, what I also know, too, is that if I can just tough it out, and this is, I guess, the mental game that I play is like, if I still really want that, you know, this week I'll have it, you know, or I'll do it after I work out on Tuesday or whatever. And so I play that game of like, I'm not going to tell myself I can't have it. I brought it back. I am going to eat it at one point.

But what I'll do is I know after today, when I get back on my training, when I eat my regular meals, I won't even want. You know, the illustration that comes to mind with this, because that's going to happen. So I'm glad you said that, Adam. It's not like you do this and they're like, it's fixed. Like, this is just a constant journey. But it's like, you know, it's like shooting an arrow at a target that's really far away. And when you fire the arrow, imagine if you could follow the arrow along its path and make slight adjustments to keep it on target. Okay.

The only way you'd be able to do that is if you kept your eyes on the target. If you kept your eyes on the target, you can move it to the left. We're going too far to the left. Move it to the right. And you can keep moving it to maintain that target. The target needs to be health. If the target's health, then you're, yes, you're going to move side to side, but you're keeping your eyes on the target.

If the target is aesthetics, you're going way off. You're going to go in the wrong direction. And it's going to lead to a lot of things. They're going to make it very difficult for this to be consistent and real for you. Here's the next one. Discipline over motivation. This is a big one because motivation, feel so good.

It's one of my favorite states of mind. Also addicting. Are you kidding me? You're so hyped. Motivation is so addicting. We will structure things to create motivation. We'll take substances that make us feel motivated. We follow people just to get that juice.

We love fitness influencers that have the worst advice ever, but yell into the screen and tell you whatever. Bad ass. To pump you up and to motivate you. We love motivation because when you're motivated, there is no. You don't need discipline. You don't need struggle. There is no struggle in your motivated.

I never had a client skip a workout who was motivated. I never had a client eat, you know, quote unquote, unhealthy when they were motivated. It was when they were unmotivated, this became a challenge. It was never the motivated state of mind. The problem is that we love motivation so much. We fall in love with it that this is the state of mind that we work in. And when we're at motivation, we have no tools. we have no ways to deal with what it's like to not feel motivated.

So you look up and down. That's what it looks like for you. It's either on or off. Super fleeting. It's either great or off or not great. Yep. Because motivation is what I'm aiming at versus discipline. Discipline is there all the time.

Now discipline when you're motivated is great. When you're not motivated, it's still there. So focus on discipline. How do I build the skill of discipline? One small step at a time. One little step at a time. You build upon a previous discipline and over time this builds. This is a long process of building.

Make that the target. The target is discipline. So how do I start with this? Well, I'm not working out right now. But I feel super motivated and I haven't worked out in five years. I'm going to go to the gym five days a week. Let me stop for a second. Hold on a second.

Five days a week. Can I maintain that when this feeling goes away? No way. There's no way I'll go to the gym five days a week. 30 days from now or 60 days for now when the inevitable happens where I become Oden motivated, let me pick a schedule that I think I can stick to when this feeling goes away. What does that look like? And if I'm being quite honest, it's one day a week. One day a week is more than zero days, which is what I'm doing now. I'm going to go one

day a week to the gym because I know what's going to happen. 60 days from now, I'm going to lose my motivation, but I think I can maintain the discipline of one day a week. And you stick with that. And over time, this turns into two days or three days or whatever, but you build upon previous discipline. This is the target. Be careful with falling in love with or worshiping or focusing solely on motivation. It's a great thing. Nothing wrong with it. I love it.

But it will not serve you. Now, here's the catch. Here's the part that's really cool. The more discipline you develop, the more motivation peaks its head in. So the more consistent you are with little bouts of discipline, the more experiences you're going to have. with that feeling of motivation. So if you actually like being motivated, you still want to be disciplined.

It gives you more of that later. Yeah, what do you think the secret to becoming disciplined is? Because I feel like it's real easy to say that. I don't think that's what we're saying. Requires reps. Small reps. That's a skill.

So it's like learning how to play the piano or how to squat. It's interesting because it very much parallels to me integrity and like building your character. It's hard to do that. the right thing when nobody's looking. It's hard to go to work out when you don't feel like you want to do it. But then again, to be consistent, you have to really kind of introduce these immovable patterns one step at a time. And so this is my one immovable thing that I know I can

stick with, you know, and then just start with that. You're going to build on that. It naturally is going to build momentum, but, you know, for you to do that is that first step is integral. I have, I had a client, so when I figured this out, it was a game changer for me as a trainer. My success rate with my clients, or actually to be more accurate, their success way went through the roof in comparison to my previous clients or the previous ways that I would, you know, try to work with people. And I'll think I have one person in particular I'm thinking about. This woman came to me.

She was referred to me by one of my doctor clients who had been in their ear about coming to train with me for a while. And this woman was like, I hate working out. I hate gyms. It's not my thing. But finally, you know, she had a good relationship with this doctor. And she said, just go see this guy, Sal. He's really good.

You'll like him, whatever. So she comes in to meet with me. First words out of her mouth. This is not an exaggeration. I shake her hand and introduce myself. First words out of her mouth. I'm not working out more than once a week. I'm not changing my diet.

I'm not doing anything extra. Can you help me? Yes. I can help you. You're just going to come meet with me once a week and that's all we're going to do. Really? Is that really going to do enough? to change anything about my health and my fitness.

So, well, how much are you working out now? She said, I'm not working out at all. She said it's more than what you're doing. It's more. I will show you that you're going to have improvements once a week. Do I need to do more than that? Nope. We'll stay there as long as you want.

So I train this woman once a week. And I don't remember how long it was. It was a decent amount of time. It might have been a year. But she came to me, and I made that experience good. I trained her appropriately. Didn't over train her up. We trained properly.

She got stronger over the course of a year. She came to me and she said, hey, are there some exercises I could do on my own? And that was the second step. Little by little, she became a very consistent person with her two to three days a week of working out. She started working on her diet. But we had to build it over time.

Like any skill, you just don't, you just don't sit at a piano and play a symphony right out the gates. You got to learn one little thing and it builds upon itself. And that's what discipline looks like. There's two huge things that I hear when I hear that story. One of them is starting really, really setting the bar really low as far as their expectations of what they can do, right? So it's like,

commit to something so easy. You're like, I know for sure I can always do this. And then I'm sure what happened with her during that process is that she started to connect to the dots to how it felt. Obviously, strength went up. So there was an obvious indicator. But I think part of the secret to this, I mean, this is what keeps me going the way I go, because I don't have any serious fitness goals that I'm trying to, both performance or aesthetic. Neither one of those are a focus of mine right now, yet I show up and do the thing.

And I think what it is is that, I mean, I have connected the dots to all the other things that doing some sort of lifting weights does for me. My energy in that day is always so much better. I sleep way better. I'm a much better husband and father. I do more house chores around the house and help my wife out when I work. It's like, I'm better at work.

Like, there's a lot of things that have nothing to do with performance or aesthetics or leanness or body, or anything that that that I have connected the dots to. And it's like, and what's cool about all of those things is the program design, the progressive overload, exactly what, like actually doesn't matter that much.

It's literally, I just got to go in there. Show up. Show up. challenge my body a little bit with weights and go home and I'll reap a good bit, a good portion of all those benefits. Now, yes, if I program correctly and I progressively overload, I'll see some extra added aesthetic benefits.

I'll see some extra performance benefits. But it's like I have reached a level of those things that it's just like, man, I, I care so much more about the other things that that takes very minimal effort going in there to do that to maintain and keep all that. 100% uh you know the next thing is uh you really have to this is a tough one but understand that grace is going to serve you shame will never serve you when it comes to fitness it'll never now shame is different than guilt so guilt says you know i did this bad thing shame says i am this bad thing or i am bad shame is one of the biggest enemies to fitness success why because you

will stumble guaranteed you will stumble it's going to happen if you should shame yourself. Now, again, guilt is different. Guilt is, yeah, I made a mistake. Okay. That's admitting I made a mistake. Some people take being anti-shame to being no guilt. That's not true. Yes, you did this thing. It was off your program. You missed a week of working out. You ate a whole pizza when you could have had just two slices. Ah, man, I shouldn't have done that. That's fine. But when you turn that into beating the crap out of yourself, shaming yourself, using your workouts as a way to punish yourself, restricting yourself because I don't deserve anything better. And I deserve, and I to feel this way. First off, you can't hate yourself into better health. It just doesn't work. Hating

yourself is unhealthy. That's like smoking yourself into better lung health. It just doesn't, it just doesn't work. You give yourself grace. What does grace look like? You messed up. We'll start over and done. We're done with it. It's gone. Let's start again. This is what prevents the, I'm going to stop my diet and stop my workout for the next six months to five years. That's what stops this as grace. Shame. because here's what happens. Enough shame will eventually get you to run and you'll never want to do this again or you won't do this until the shame wears off,

which sometimes can take years. And that's definitely not good for doing. You know what's crazy that comes to mind is everybody's heard of placebo effect, but I don't know if many people have heard the nocebo effect. Which also, too, it's just that sort of negative feedback that actually deteriorates your health.

It's a part of that entire process. But yeah, I mean, hating yourself to show up. I mean, how long long are you going to stick with that? I mean, the sustainability to that alone is rough. You'll run. This, uh, this, uh, this, uh, reminds me of the advice, uh, we give a lot to, um, live callers at Colin. Um, it's a, it's a, it's a common one that, um, I go back to when it comes to reframing the, the, you missed a day or you didn't have a good day eating or whatever it is. Instead of like,

looking at it is like, uh, oh, I effed up. I screwed up this. And then fall, falling off the rails like everybody does and spiraling out of control. It's, oh, how many days in a row did I get of doing really well? Oh, it was three days. Cool, I'm back to zero. Let's get back on it. Let's see if I can get to four days.

And then, oh, you hit four or five days in a row. Something happened instead of again, beating yourself up. It's, oh, man, I made five days. I got two more than I did before. Start over again. Let's see if I can get to six days. And reframing those inevitable setbacks and not perfect days,

which are going to happen in this process as an opportunity for you to get better the next time, that's having grace. That's having grace with yourself and reframing this as not a negative, oh my God, I'm such a terrible, I'm such a fat ass, I can't do it. Like instead of beating yourself up,

it's, hey, I did, I got a few days in a row and it had no mistakes. Let's see if I can get one more of those days in a row and just keep playing that game and before you know it, you become the person who can string, you know, 60, 90 days. This is the key to being a good personal trainer coach, by the way, is understanding how to communicate this. Because when your clients, this is how we train our trainers,

why they're so successful, when you look at the success rate of the clients that work with our trainers as defined by getting results, sticking around, being consistent, and wanting to stick around. So those are big parameters for what success was. Some people think success is just losing weight or just, just getting in shape. That's part of it. The other part of it is can they maintain it? Do they want to maintain it? Do they love the experience? Are we making real lasting behavioral changes? This is why our trainers are so successful. I remember as a trainer when early days, my clients would hide

things from me. This is common with clients and trainers. When your clients like, oh, I'm doing so well, but I had that cake or I missed that workout. And they won't tell their trainer. They won't tell their trainer because they're afraid of letting their trainer down. This makes it very difficult to train and coach people. Actually makes it impossible. If I don't know everything, how can I possibly coach you? I remember when I got good at this, I was the first person my clients would tell when they made a mistake. Because they knew they would get grace for me and we would get back on and go again. And it became so much more successful as a coach and trainer. Here's the last one. This piece right here is completely missing in the fitness space, which is just have fun. Enjoy. Enjoy.

How do we get so far away from this? Try to enjoy the process. Look, there's a category of people that will always be fit and healthy because they just have fun doing. They enjoy the hell out of it. Yeah. They just have so much fun doing active things. Yeah.

You probably know someone like this in your life. They're like an older person. They're always fit. Not like they have a structured workout, but they're always doing something active. They're gardening. They're hiking. Swimming. Yeah, whatever.

They're doing it with friends. They're just having a blast. They're with their grandkids. It's like, dude, have fun. If you're having fun, you'll always want to do it. You know, the only time that I see this doesn't work well or this conflicts is when somebody is chasing aesthetics and leanness and wants to have fun. So that's like, have fun works when you fall in line with health, discipline, grace, performance

that way. It's a great way to chase all those things. But when you are focused on an aesthetic and a look, but then you also want to get it from playing basketball or you want to get it from running marathons. It doesn't work. And then you have this inner struggle. So it's always,

which is always a conversation I have with somebody who tells me, I love to run marathons or I love playing basketball. And I'm like, cool, keep doing that. That's going to keep you healthy and fit and stamina. How many of those people would keep doing it if they could snap their fingers and look their way they wanted?

Yeah. Stop. Right. Yeah. So like having fun means you do it no matter what. That's right. And that's my point is that, you know some people I'm having fun I like to do these marathons so I thought yeah but you're doing it

because you you want the leanness part out of it and so that's why you do it you're doing it for the wrong reasons you should do it regardless of how you look or not look and not connect those two things that's when it tends to follow okay all right I'm going to change uh directions here because I just got to comment again on every once in a while we'll be introduced to a product or a method or something this is rare by the way this rarely happens But it's a product or something that all of us, especially me, is not just skeptical of, but immediately I dismiss it. I'm like, this is crap.

This is not going to work. This is whatever. Hocus pocus. Get this out of my face. Well, I did that a while ago with Super Patch because they sent us these patches that were non-transdermal, no medicine, no supplements in the patch. It was literally the patch itself that was purported to cause all these changes. Yeah.

And I'm like, that sounds. Trigger some response. Yeah, magically. That sounds a lot like a placebo and I'm not interested. And they're like, dude, just look at the studies. So I'm like, oh, you got studies. Let me see these studies. They're like 15 studies.

Controlled, peer reviewed, randomized, like high quality studies. The one that really like piqued my interest was the one on pain and the one on sleep. Because the, they worked as effectively. Like the pain one worked as effectively as like ibuprofen. Well, anyway, I just, they just keep blowing me away. I was on a, and I'll tell you a little bit more about this later, but I was on a camping trip, and I didn't bring the sleep patches from Super Patch. And, you know, sleep is always not that great camping anyway.

But I got home, put the sleep patch on, and boy, does it make a difference. I also have friends that measure their sleep with, like, aura rings and stuff. And they've had the patch on, have the patch off. I'm like, no, I can tell the difference. So you just feel more of a deeper sleep, like refreshing wake up? It doesn't put me to sleep. It's not like a sleep. They have a sleep one and a REM one, don't they?

They have both? No, that is the same one. Same one. Oh, there's a calm and a REM. Calm is different. Yeah. They have a calm and they have a calm and room. You just put it on, go to bed.

Yeah. And your REM score will go up. Well, yeah. Measure it with your RAM. Orra actually measures your REM. That's right. You can see your REM. And so that's what I did when we first did.

I mean, that was that and the pain were the two that like it sold me. Yeah. Yeah. Once I saw that. Because one, I had a, I tracked ORA consistently. And so I saw a measurable difference. And then the. pain one, like I said. And I, I didn't know the studies. I remember describing it to you. I said,

I gave you the, my scoring, right? The pain goes from a nine to a five. Yeah, which is, like, that's mathematically exactly what the study says. It compares it right to like what, and it feels the best example I have is anyone who's ever had any sort of like pain and they take an Advil. It's like, Advil doesn't like get. Doesn't erase the pain. Yeah, doesn't erase it, you know, it doesn't numb you like a hydrocodine or something like that. It literally just, it dulls, the pain. It dulls the pain and makes it more bearable and can make a significant difference for somebody who's in pain. And that's what it feels like. This is a whole new field of research is haptic technology. It's wild. It's funny because like, you know, I got the pleasure of going

to the Atlanta Falcons training camp. And so I got to go behind the scenes and like I talked to a lot of the coaches there and the trainers. And, you know, obviously I can get into all the, you know, crazy, sophisticated, like systems and everything they have. But like, I was, they're asking me because they were like, curious, like all these partnerships we have and all this stuff. And like, what's, you know, what's like kind of the latest cool thing? I'm like, you know, we do get like opportunities to meet like cool companies and owners of companies.

And I was like, you know, this super patch is something to really, you know, pay attention to. It's like I wouldn't have ever, you know, thought it had any validity because, you know, it's just like you described. But, you know, like all these studies come. out for performance. I was something to look into and they were like all geeking out about it.

So we'll see, yeah. How was that, by the way, going out there? It was so fun. It was. So were you in their like training camp? You were like there. We were there. Yeah.

So Beth, you know, our caller that, you know, invited us and whatnot, like, it was so great. She's such a great host and showed me like pretty much every behind the scenes part of the facility possible got to see like, you know, like just, man. And they really baby these guys. Like, be honest, like everything you think,

like, even we have, like, our haircut kind of set up with a barbershop. They have, like, such a sick barbershop in there to, like, hey,

get their haircuts. Like, you know, they have, like, this whole, like, leather seat, almost like a,

first class, um, you know, when you sit first class, get these, like, really cool leather seat. Like,

they had that for each locker. It's basically that have their own screen. And then they have, like, you know, like, stuff to, like,

literally dry their clothes, like in there so it like has like fans in there so everything you know doesn't smell bad and uh that's dude it looks like a lounge like it like some Vegas lounge you know and you're just like what dude these guys but uh i mean i spent most of the time in the actual gym of course because i was geeking out on what was the equipment how they train everybody uh everything you can think of that was cool like they had um you know really nice squat racks they had um it was surprised me actually they had a ton of the stick mobility sticks and they were all warming up with them. They had this big screen that it was cool because it had examples of like specific warmups

that they could kind of choose from. But I mean to the level of degree of like individualization, they all have their own iPads. So when you sign on and they bring you on, they give you an iPad and it basically, you know, has all your biomarkers. Wow. It like uploads you. You get an assessment from. like a physical therapist, they kind of do all the background checks of like any discrepancies.

What was cool was like for me geeking out back when I created Axon and tried to do this whole thing with like, you know, like measuring people's abilities, their output for force output. So they have, they actually have a machine that they were like checking their soleus output. And so that way too they could like prescribe, you know, a better warm up, a better work. based off the solace. And then they would do this on specifics for somebody who had, you know, like some discrepancies already. And like, again, this is all part of the screening process. And it like uploads it. And then they can adjust. So they have like a template for like a block training, um, that everybody has, uh, for that specific week. Uh, but then like they go in, first of all, the physical therapist can go on and modify it. Then the trainer can go on and modify it. individualize it. And then they just, even if you're a new player, they'll just take all that, you know, like get you through the screen process, put the iPad on the rack you're going to work out.

And then they just step up, you know, what's my workout? Boom. And then they do it. Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. That's cool. This is next level, dude. That is so cool.

I wonder how much is being monitored on there. Like, you remember how when we interviewed Corey in the volume of steps and movement. Yes. Okay. So they also have a whole. system, I think it's called Zebra, but it's these chips that they put on in their pads and everything else to measure their acceleration and output. And so like, they call it like speed reps. So like the amount of volume of speed reps is what, and if you don't exceed or if you don't

match your goal, so they set goals already for each person, you know, based on what they want them to exert. And so it's like if you don't hit that, then you're, running sprints. Oh, no shit. To hit your, yeah, to hit your target. Wow.

That is, okay, so now they have the technology now. How crazy is that? It's crazy. To measure the effort that they are giving. Yeah. I mean,

back of the days, the coach would just catch you by the way. Yeah. Yeah, look at you and be like, you can slide. You could slide. You could slide. It would be like that.

You know what I'm saying? But then they get competitive. Like, every day they have like a sort of leaderboard of like who's had the fastest reps. You know, and all that. Wow. So you can kind of see it.

That's cool. Give feedback. And I was blown away, dude. But then I wonder how much, so I wonder, too, if they're using, like, aura rings or they're using stuff to monitor sleep quality and see how good there. Because we know that that's one of the highest risk for injury. So that would be cool if they're inputting data like that, too. Or it's just like, oh, it looks like Justin got a 55 score last night.

We're going to tell him to back off his intensity today and his lifting. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't look like they followed it for, um, uh, for, sleep, like outside of the train. But they also had like a secondary system with like these polar heart rate monitors. And so they could also measure a lot of their cardio output with that a little more specifically. Doug pulled up the, they're called Zebra Performance Monitoring is what I think it's called.

Doug, scroll down. I want to see what the system collects. This is the data that it collects. How fast a player runs. How far a player runs. How fast the football travels when thrown. How much the football spins. dude and where players are on the field at all times isn't that crazy bro they're breaking it down

to the most insane detail like and they're using the thing is they're using the data like these coaches like it's it's a bit overwhelming because they have to like take all of this information and then like the complicated it's complicated but they want to simplify so each player's like oh I just do this let's see if adam picks up on what I'm going right here so check this out the public also gets to see these numbers during game broadcast. Yeah, for betting reasons. I wonder, I was just thinking of that.

I wonder if this is like tightly kept like how they're practicing because if somebody got their hands on practicing data, you could, yeah. You could be like, oh, no, I'm betting against the Broncos. Have you guys seen that all the stuff

that's going on right now? What's the, you've brought it up before? What's the betting, the huge betting platform that everyone's doing now that bets on everything? What's it called? I don't know. You know what it's called.

It's like, presidential Control Rod. You can bet on. Oh, I know what you're talking about. I don't know the name. What's the insurance? It's called, come on, you guys. Some, one of you guys has to know the name of it. Polymarket. Polymarket. All this, all the shit that's going on with it.

They bet on elections to you. Everything. There's everything. There's nothing that you can't not bet on. It's like, it's polymarkets bets on every. But there's so much, there's a lot. There's like, there's a lot going on right now with lawsuits and, and people that have inside tracks to things like that. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, I just saw, I just saw a threat on this.

And I went down the rabbit hole watching some of the stuff that's going on. But look at all the things you can do on, but you can bet on Bitcoin where it's going to go. You can bet on, I mean, you can bet on anything. Wow. Literally everything you could possibly think of, you can bet on. Dude, speaking of tech, did you guys see what happened? This just happened in Australia. And this is just so wild that this actually happened.

So I'll pull up. I got to read to you guys. what happened because, you know, how many, I don't know, how many warnings are we going to get about AI and what it could potentially do? And how many, how many warnings are we going to get before people do anything? Trip off this. This is Australia's first known autonomous AI cyber attack. You ready for this?

This guy used this AI agent and said, hey, can you book me a time, like a very, very innocuous, like innocent things. Like, hey, to his agent, get me a time at the 930 spin class. So the AI agent went to the gym's website and saw that the spin class was full. So what do you think the AI agent did? Cancel somebody else? It hacked the gym and hacked their schedule. Canceled, took someone off the roster and put them on.

Do you guys know why this is crazy? Wow, that is crazy. He didn't tell his agent to do that. He didn't say anything. It took the initiative. It went on its own and hacked the gym. It's a good little worker. Yes.

So what's crazy about this is like our systems, our security systems are basically designed around like, what are the probability? What are the probability someone's going to try and hack your gym to try to get a, like nobody cares. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, everything is going to have to be crazy security over a simple thing. I mean, that's a pretty good bet right there on like you're trying to bet on companies or things that are going to, it's going to be a lot of these security. security company internet security companies will have to go through. Dude, it literally went on a hack by itself. I got your time, sir, 9 a.m.

Oh, cool, thanks. Little bump. Yeah, dude. Are you guys, are you guys, are you guys, are you guys, are you guys, are you know, uh, show lioness is out again? You guys watching? No. I haven't started.

I've been hating to get into it. I love it. I watched the, the first episode, but it's good. Did you want the first episode of this? Oh, the first season. Oh, yeah. I'm just getting into it. Oh, you're just now getting into it.

That's really good. Oh, it's really good. So season two just started. Is it about all this kind of stuff? So what I like about it is they do kind of current stuff. So like season two is like Ukraine war stuff. Oh, it's like what's happening? Yeah.

And it makes me actually really curious of like how accurate it is because something he just didn't cross my mind, like how that war is being fought and everything. You show me some stuff of like the drone footage. Dude, you can find this online. Okay, so. It's crazy. So that's what they say. Oh, the show. is depicting and the way they describe it.

So there's a scene in it that opens up. This isn't ruining the show. It's not like a big surprise. There's a scene where the CIA agents, CIA FBI agents are meeting up with like the like Navy SEAL guys or whatever that are like on the ground doing the stuff. And of course, you have this battle of power of like who has to listen to who.

And the seals that have been working or Delta, I don't know which one, what team it is, has been already on the ground fighting this war is basically talking shit to the CIA people like, you have no authority here because you've never, you've never trained for a war like this. It's like World War I meets Star Wars.

So it's like trench wars with drone shit going on. And so they, like, there's scenes in there where they're fighting in trenches and they're like literally fight like that close combat, but then also using like thousands of, drones that are coming in and just dive bombing on on on I saw one video because people put they post them the soldiers post them where there's like a soldier hiding in the bush and a drone will fly over him and then see him so you're seeing it from the drone's camera and it's captures them

and then he he looks up and sees it and then it just flies towards him and of course the screen cuts out because it probably like explode yeah basically they show that these are just like you know $100 Amazon drones with C4 on it. And they're just designed, and they just come flying. So literally they're in hand-to-hand combat type of stuff. And then all of a sudden, thousands of drones could swarm of them coming over.

And they're just dive bombing on people that are. It's like, so like just wild to think that that's crazy. And I don't know how accurate again it is. I imagine it's probably somewhat accurate or that was what it's like, but trip me out watching that. That's crazy. This season's good, though. So it's only got two episodes out,

but it's, uh, they came out the gate's pretty good. What's it say, Doug? Yeah. Uh, one drone often acts as the leader. It flies ahead to find and pick the target. Then the other drones of the group follow the leader and carry explosives. They dive into the target to blow it up. Many of these drones use artificial intelligence so they can make choices on their own without a

human flying them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's not. Not good. And they're cheap. Whatever. Cool.

I think shooting nets up, right? Am I just thinking crazy? Yeah. Yeah. Just like fire a bunch of nets up there. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I don't even know how well. I mean, it's like there's like thousands, you know? Yeah, yeah. It looked like I couldn't tell, but look like they even had special new guns that would. To shoot them. Yeah, to shoot them. Like almost like they're like shotgun. Oh, like birdshot. Yeah, birdshot type stuff. So it's not. Yeah, you're trying to, a single bullet like widespread. Yeah, you want something that's going to hit probably four or five of them at once or like that. And so they were shooting different guns. I was like, oh, that must be, yeah, it must be like a new gun that's designed for that.

I'm going to, again, I'm going to take another left here. I was reading some studies on oil, on oils that are used in foods, but also in the same article, they talked about fish oil because that's a popular supplement that people take. I'm taking mine consistently right now. Yeah, yeah, me too, especially because, you know, we met with Dr. Cabral. Such an easy way to change your inflammatory profile. Such an easy way to do it is to supplement with fish oil. Well, Doug scored the best, and he's the only one that's been super consistent with it. Yep. And you can, it's very predictable. You take high EPA fish oil for a month. You do a blood test. You see a difference. But I went online and I'm like, how many fish oils out there are rancid or not, you know, 100% fish oil? A lot. I'm sure. Is it? A lot. Yeah, I'm sure. A lot. A lot of it's garbage. Because fish oil is such a popular supplement now. You can go to the grocery store and buy grocery store brand fish oil. It's super cheap. You can buy it anywhere. And a lot of them are either. You

they're not fish oil or they're bad. It's rancid. Just because it's a food. It's fish oil. Oil is an oil. I remember somebody I used to work with nutrition lady and she would poke a hole in it and then you'd smell it. And it was like, man, quite a few brands.

Yes. Rancid smell. Yep. So Keon, people are like, which is like, which is like super, super high quality, super high quality. That's the one I use. That's the one I'm using to. Yeah. We have them here.

So it's easy for me to take. Yes. And I don't get the like fish burps from them. That's right. Yeah. I've had ones before. I'm like, oh. The, oh, dude.

So, so along those, along those lines, do you guys, so they did a test on, on processed foods that say that they're made, I'll pull it up, with like avocado oil or olive oil. Do you guys want to hear the fail rate? 48 out of 54 tested avocado oil products didn't have avocado oil. 48 out of 54. Way too many. I saw that clip.

I saw that Instagram clip somebody posted. Dude. You know, just stay away from processed foods. I think that's just what we're going to do. Yeah. Because it's all processed foods, right? It's like, hey, potato chips made in avocado oil. Just kidding.

Yeah. It's all crap. It's all crap. That sucks. That sucks. It does. Anyway, I got to tell you guys about this potential purchase that I'm considering, which you guys know me.

I'm not a big, like, buy things kind of person. Yeah. But I went camping over the last four days and we used an RV. So I'm not a big camping guy, obviously. So I did it in the least camping way possible. I think it was so cool. I went and looked it all up after you did it because I have never heard of what you did. So here's what I did.

So if you know me personally, you know this about me. But like one of my big challenges is like I place comfort and convenience way too high on the party list. So if something's not comfortable to me, I don't want to do it, which prevents me from doing a lot of things, unfortunately. Camping being one of one. Like you go camp in a tent. You're not comfortable. You don't have all your conveniences. He's not comfortable camping, yeah.

And so I just don't do it. And it sucks because I know how valuable it is for, like, for kids. It's a good time. I love camping as a kid, but that's because mom and dad handled everything. Right. So my cousin, he has an RV, and he's like, dude, let's go camping and whatever. So I'm like, nah, I'm not going to do that. And he goes, you know, you can have them drop an RV off, you know, like a big trailer off for you.

So I'm like, really? What do those things have? Like, it has everything. So that's what I did. So they dropped off a trailer. Which is cool. I was aware of forever you've been able to rent these. Yes.

You've been able to rent an RV. Oh, dude, I went overboard. I got like a 40 foot. Like, this thing's like a monster. Yeah, you had like, I saw it. You had like four, anything that has like four popouts or more. Is it a land yacht or what? It was a monster.

Didn't have hookups. The place doesn't have hookups. So you still have to have a generator and you'll run out of water. But, you know, for me, it was a step towards, you know, and I was not comfortable. I still wasn't comfortable. It was still a little bit of anxiety around it. but my kids, man, had so much fun. I bet they loved it.

Oh, so much that my son cried when we left. Really? Oh, wow. He cried for 30 minutes on the way home. Wow. I want to go back. I want to live there. I don't want to go home because it was just the whole time.

So there was me, my cousin Gabriel, Alex, my cousin, Sep, and my brother. So it was five of us and we took this kind of campground, the circular campground. And we all have little kids. Yeah. So for the kids, for. us it's like total safety like my kids could run off just run and as long as i see that they're near you know my cousin or whatever i'm like ah whatever they're fine and i'm over here doing my thing so the kids experienced this great freedom they the whole time they're running riding their bikes

climbing playing they're coming together it's just such a wonderful time for the kids and so uh you know and it took me like a couple days to like not be so anxious about the you know they don't have all the things that i'm used to type of deal so we get home and my wife and i were talking about this. I'm like, you know, I need to challenge my comfort level and I need to gradually do it. So I think if I bought like a motorhome, that I could, that would probably be the next level. Because I could do like, because we're in California. There's a lot of places nearby, you could park a little motorhome and have like a two or three days. It goes like this. Boat. Yeah. Motor home. Race simulator.

Oh. Three. Those are three. Yeah. Three worst investments that you can buy and never use. That's the order just so you know. Okay. So. Motor home is right up. The only thing worse is a boat. Yeah. But the thing is it takes a lot of space. Yeah. And it's way more than those other ones.

Yeah. Well, what I would do, what I'm going to do, because that 100% I know that. I know the stats on that. Is we're going to do like two or three trips where we rent a motor home first. Yeah. And then if it's like, we could do this. If you consistently, yeah, appreciate it. Like if we could do this and we're going to do this thing like often.

That's smart. Then I'll do it. But we're going to do that. I mean, so I've been around a lot of them. And the people that I have seen that actually get their money's worth their are almost always retired and older. Yeah. Like that,

that is they, and they have decided that this is, I'm going to travel the United States, and this is what we're going to do. So my cousin uses his quite a bit, but he's got a couple things going for him. First off, he's self-employed.

He's that some flexibility there. And then his kids are homeschooled. Oh, those are the two big blocks. Yeah. Right? Is your job and your kid's school? Sure.

So they could take off. I mean, you kind of have that. Exactly. Yeah, you kind of. Yeah, I thought of that because our schedule here is, you know, it's fixed but relatively special. Yeah. So that's number one.

My kids are homeschooled. And then number three, where we live, I looked up places that are within an hour that even have full hookups or partial hookups. Oh, tons. Tons. Everywhere. They're all over. Everywhere.

So I'm like, okay, I'll try it out. There's cool. There's beach ones all over the place. Go big basin. Go big. Were you guys? Where you guys? When you're felt in a bed.

Where you guys, when that Bodega Bay, where you guys were all those big shaded trees are, and then the beach is, like, walking right down in front of you? The beach was right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we just had to cross a road. Yeah, I know right where you guys were out. Yeah, that's a great spot.

That's a really cool, that's a really cool place to go. It was awesome. Yeah. It was great. And, you know, everything's dirty. And, you know, people are laughing who actually camp because they're making fun of me right now. Like, that's not camping. I know it's not camping.

Yeah. But I got to start where I'm at and I'm over here. So now what we did, what we did growing up was the, the parents, got that, and then us kids had a camp in tents. Now, obviously, your kids are so little that you don't do that. But at one point, you would do... My parents had a tent trailer. We had, like, yeah, the tents outside.

Yeah, that's eventually what you do is that mom and dad have that, and then the kids get... Which the kids actually normally like that. Once they get to a certain age... They can rough it, yeah. Yeah, once you get just... They want their own little thing, and so you get them their own tents, and they camp right outside the RV, and you're inside the RV.

Once you have, like, an apnea mask and you have, like... Bro, that was the other thing, too. You have all these things, you know, as an adult that you're like, oh, man, like, you know, it becomes less appealing. It's, yeah. But it was, you know, like I said, the kids is what motivated me. Because if it was just me, like, I don't know if I would ever do it. But to see the value that it brought my, they did, they didn't sit down at all. Well, I would go.

The whole time. I mean, you'd love to just watch them right. Dude, they were having so much. Did you guys, done, did you guys, because this is something I could totally get in with you. I would love to do this is, and I would do the same thing. I would just rent, I would just rent one. Because what makes the more and more fun is like you guys booked that for next year. And we take on another two more sites.

And then before you know it, we dominate the whole camp area. The whole camp area is all family and friends. They get into the competitive Yosemite places where everybody does it like, you know, oh my gosh, it's impossible to get a good spot there. This is a whole world. I'm not even aware of it. It is. And I think too, COVID probably accelerated a lot of that where it's hard to get like passes ahead of time.

No, you have to like book it like a year. Oh, yeah, that's why I said that. Like, if you guys liked doing that and that was a good spot, what we do is you book now for next year. Yeah. That's every year we would do this because we would go, we roll like 50 something deep. So we take a whole entire camp area like that over. And it was so fun because it was every, you knew everybody. You know everybody.

And so your kids can just go everywhere. So they're running all over to all the campsites and different things. And the adults are having, like we had theme nights. every night where there was like a, you know, it was Greek night. And then this was like Hawaiian night. And then different, keep different families were in charge of putting on the theme night. And so like, see, yeah, see, for me, it's like for the, for two things, it's the, for the kids, I saw how much value it brought them. And I'm like, man, I got to do this for them. And then for me, I got to do it because it'll challenge this thing that I have with comfort. Like, I have to be

able to get over this whole issue with like, I got to have all the stuff that I'm used to type of deal. Well, you know, they say, I wish I remember the existence. exact stat on it. I remember seeing it. It was actually really surprising on like your kid will forget birthday presents. They'll forget all, but that camping trip, they'll remember that camping trip. I know that forever. And I mean, I and I know that firsthand from like I've, I've forgotten so much of my childhood, but I could I could recall every every camp year. I can remember every camping trip that we went to. It was so great to see all the kids play. And my brother was there with his boys and they're just, Those kids run on nuclear reactors.

But his oldest, his five-year-old is so kinesthetically gifted. It's wild. So he's, first of all, he's five. Not only does he ride a two-wheel bike like he's been riding for his whole life. My brother bought him a mini BMX bike for five-year-old. So my brother went and got him like a good one because he's like, he loves it. Yeah. Bro, this kid flies on that thing.

Nobody teaches him anything. I'm like, did you teach him? He's like, no, he's constantly doing tricks on his own. He'll ride, take his legs off the pedals. He'll take his hands off the pedals. He'll kick the back out. He'll skid. He'll try to jump things.

So he fell like three or four times while we were there. So he'd hear him crying. You'd run over there, you know, put a bandied on him. I'm like, oh, he's probably done. My brother's like, no. Sure enough, he jumps on the bike and just. At one point, my brother is like, it's like, okay, he's like, he's going too dangerous. Because he was doing stuff that you're like, this kid's, we've got to be careful.

It's so wild. The kids are different. My brother tells him, he goes, that's it. You're not going to ride the bike for an hour. Oh, my God, dude. He, like, devastated him. Yeah, meltdown. Oh, please.

He's crying. I'm like, oh, my God. Take it away from me. But I have never seen a five-year-old so, like, kinesthetically gifted like that. He was doing things on that bike. That's my godson and my goddaughter like that, dude. My best friends. I mean, the give and take is that they're also, they're tears.

If they're not moving, they're not doing something. They're getting into something. You have to keep them. busy and doing that stuff. But boy, they are just, they're talented. He's got him now. He sent videos yesterday of out there doing foot drills with my god's like, yeah, dude.

Backpedaling, shiving karaoke drills and everything like that. And it's like, oh my God, dude. So such a, I mean, and him and Max are only one year apart. They're not like five years apart. And they're barely apart. I'm like, getting Max to go do foot drills would be hilarious. He'd be doing this. What do?

What would be doing, Dad? My hope right now is the swimming thing, because he's He's taken to the pool like a fish right now. So that's where I'm like, okay, this could be the thing because he's all about it right now. He'll swim. He'll swim all day and diving the bottom and picking all the coins off and holding his breath forever. Oh, that's good. Okay, well, maybe this will be our thing.

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Use the code mind pump and checkout for 20% off your first order. Back to the show. Our first caller is Taise from California. Hi, Taise. Hi, Taise. Hey, guys. How you doing? Oh, my gosh, I'm here.

Made it. How can we help you? Okay. Well, I will certainly ramble if I don't read the email. So I'm going to do that and remind myself that I did want to say thank you guys so much. You've definitely made a huge impact on my life. And I feel super privileged to be able to be here with you and have this opportunity. So my name is Taise.

I'm 48 years old, a single mom, a massage therapist. and an avid mind pump listener. Before anything else, I want to thank you for the life-changing impact you've had on me. Your content has brought a much more grounded and wholesome understanding of what it means to be a healthy human. I also want to mention that I recently finished three months of coaching with SAC from your mind pump team. And while I expected to be supported through reverse dieting and appropriate training, what I actually received was much more impactful in healing for me. I really started learning how to listen to my body's cues, nourish myself, respect the needs

and timeline of my unique situation. Zach was insightful, compassionate, and wise beyond his years, and it was one of the most valuable investments that I've made. I love hearing that. Wonderful. Thank you. Love hearing that. Yeah. So now that our coaching has ended, I would love your advice on how to structure my training. I'm experiencing ongoing pain and tightness that does not seem to match the minimal amount of training that I'm doing. And I hope that you can help me understand how you might approach this. I'm going to give you a little background on me and my story because I think that it adds to the whole situation. As a teenager, I weighed 275 pounds.

I struggled with compulsive overeating and binge eating. After losing 100 pounds when I was 16, I spent years chasing health and aesthetics through a lot of different types of restrictive diets. Not so much exercise, but I did start dancing back then and I just started walking everywhere I went, but it was more I associated food, you know, with my body. At 24, I entered an emotionally abusive relationship. It lasted over 20 years. After my son was born 16 years ago, I developed chronic insomnia that has followed me ever since. It was, you know, really bad when he was first born, like I was sleeping two hours a night,

up the entire night, just freaking out, and then finally falling sleep around 6 a.m. And then he'd wake up two hours later. That lasted about eight months. And my sleep is a lot better than that now, but I still struggle. Okay. So, yeah, so I learned to survive on very little sleep. I showed up for my kid. You know, I did what I had to do to push through exhaustion.

and ignore what my body was telling me. So I really learned how to hit override and live from that place. Two and a half years ago, I finally left that relationship and have been rebuilding my life ever since. A year after leaving, leaving that, I rediscovered my love of dance. Movement was a really important part in my weight loss journey and became a passion until I got lost in this abusive relationship.

And so let's see, yeah, after about a year and a half ago, I was dancing. I also discovered strength training at that time. I fell in love with it. And I also fell into the trap of under-eating, over-training. I did, you know, I guess I lost another, not that the weight on the scale matters so much, but I did lose another like 45 pounds in that year. I had gotten quite heavy again. And let's see, by the end of 2025, I had gone from 180 to 135.

I was eating around 1,600 calories a day, lifting almost daily, and was constantly sworn exhausted. I was sleeping only four to five fragmented hours each night, but kept pushing because I was terrified of losing my progress. I want to add in there that like a big piece for me that drove my desire to like start moving my body again was that ever since I had lost the initial weight. When I was a kid, you know, I was left with all the baggy skin, you know, the stretch marks and the loose skin. And I just felt even though I had gotten small, I always felt gross. I felt kind of hideous when I would look at myself.

And that never changed. And it was about two years ago where I was seeing my body again and feeling those same old feelings and was finally like, you know, I've done all the food stuff. I've gotten really small. I went on a candida cleanse at one point, got down to 116 pounds. But I still saw the same thing. It was a bunch of flesh and bone. And so it was two years ago that I was like, you know, screw this. I'm going to see what I can do to fix my body, finally.

And that's when I started dancing again and swimming, and then I learned about strength training. So that's what pushed that. And I did get really strong in a year, but I was over-training, under-eating, and losing some momentum. Although I would keep going to the gym, but I was getting to that place where, you know, I didn't have. the same kind of drive and excitement that I had in the beginning. So finding you guys changed my perspective. And that was, my sister actually introduced me to you. She's been listening to you guys for years.

But I think that I first listened to your podcast a year ago, December or something like that. And I've been listening daily ever since. So by March of this year, I'd increased my calories to about 1900. I was still frightened to reduce training and was still in a significant pain cycle. I started working with Zach in May. I knew what you guys would tell me. I heard other people on your show with similar kind of experiences. And I heard what you guys were telling them, but I knew I couldn't do it on my own.

So I did end up working with SAC. We increased my intake to around 2,400 calories a day and dramatically reduced my training volume. So we were landed in like a muscle mommy 15 Thai style protocol, prioritizing mobility and shifted the goal away from the aesthetics towards restoring my sleep and recovery. So really I feel like my work with him was really all about recovery and sleep. and sleep. And that's good. The main thing that I gained is that that's the number one goal and that it's not about beating myself up and chasing some aesthetic thing, you know, even though I'm not sleeping, even though, like, realizing that I've been living in this place of survival and override

and not listening to myself. So what a gift, you know, what a blessing that was. And I could not have done it on my own. I was still weighing myself daily. my scale has been away for three months now. I haven't stepped on it. I know I've gained weight, but, and both, you know, I know I've gained muscle and I've gained some fat back, but I'm, my, my focus now is on this, restoring my health, you know, from the inside out, becoming a vigorous enlivened, restored version of myself. And so, anyhow, yeah, I say I realized at this time that,

For years, what I thought was self-courning, disguised as self-improvement. And that is true. Today, my priorities are very different. I still care about building the muscle, becoming stronger, fixing the skin. Like, that's the one thing when I did get down, when I got really lean and had built a significant amount of muscle. The skin that, like, if I were to have it surgically removed, would be $40,000 that I don't have. but for the first time in my life, it didn't really matter because the muscle was showing through and the skin just seemed to firm up and the little bit of like, it just didn't show up as much.

It felt really good. So I do still struggle with that a bit, but I'm letting it go because I know that's not the priority and I could potentially get back there. So, okay, doing my best not to ramble. So for so much of my life, I've lived in survival. I honestly don't know what it feels like to live from a balanced mental, emotional, and physical place. And that's really what I'm working on right now. But here's where I'm hoping for your guidance.

Even with eating more, which has been so much fun, I am not afraid of food right now. And that feels so amazing. That's like one of the most healing experiences. Zach even pushed me to eat more carbs. He was like, you know, and I've been frightened of carbs. So like having a big old plate of potatoes with eggs for breakfast has been like just deeply nourishing. It feels so good. But even with eating more, training much less and sleeping a little bit better, still very much a work in progress.

But I am doing better. I wake up with sore muscles, tight tissues, stiff joints. I often feel physically depleted, which I know that makes sense with the lack of sleep. like the pain. I'm sore every day and every night despite the reduced workload, and I feel more physically uncomfortable now than I did when I was over-training. The other important piece of this puzzle is my profession. So I'm a massage therapist in private practice. My business has grown from one client a week three years ago to averaging about 22 clients each week. And that's 22 clients, some of those are hour sessions, some of those are 90-minute sessions. On my busiest days,

I could perform up to about six hours of hands-on work. I'm still on my feet in between that because I'm cleaning up the space, preparing for the next client. I love what I do. My clients love the work I provide. I help people. I also do put focus on good body mechanics. But it's still hours of physically demanding work, not requiring strength, stability, endurance, and sustained focus. I also want to add that from being overweight, like, when I was, you know, my body was still growing, my arches are fallen, my knees are not need. Like, I've been working on these things, but I think that the structure of my body might also have to do with where I experience discomfort. So I say here my current stats, I'm 48, I'm 5'8, I'm probably around 150 pounds at this point, about 2,400 calories a day. I do get 8 to 10,000 steps a day.

I work four and a half days a week, which is four to six hours of massage. Two days off, one of those days I'm still doing stuff because I'm like washing 22 sets of sheets and, you know, running errands and stuff, but not working in the, office. So given everything I've shared, I'm wondering how to structure my training. I will say that last week, I took the week off. I did like a delode week, you know, hoping that that might help to give me some relief. And I think that it did. And I did not think I was going to get on a call with you guys. So I was like, all right, you're just going to have to like figure out what to do. And so basically, I've been doing mobility work every day. I'm planning to keep that up, even the days that I do go to the gym.

And then I decided to try only lifting on my days off. So instead of breaking it up into small workouts every day to do two days of full body. And so I'm wondering what you guys think would be my best force of action. And restoring my sleep is still my highest priority. Maintaining my strength is really important for me. And also, you know, working on just mobility, functionality, being able to move how I want to move. I do enjoy dancing. And there's so much I'd like to be able to do and contribute.

And, you know, I just want to be the strong, healthy, third version of myself. And it's been feeling really challenging. I'm in a kind of catch 22 between recovery, sleep, and staying, you know, on top of my fitness. Yeah. I feel you and I really appreciate you calling in. This is going to really help a lot of people who are watching this. So I have a few questions for you if that's okay. First off, you're kicking ass.

You're doing really well. I just want to point that out. You're doing really good. I just want to point out like how far you've come and what you've accomplished and where you're at. You're doing incredible. Thank you so much. The pain that you feel is general, with kind of stiffness and soreness kind of all over?

Yeah, lately it has been. And there can be specifics too. It's different. Like there are specific pain points that I think are more about my structure. Like I do get intermittent pain in my shoulders with pushing. Like I feel like I cannot do push-ups right now because it's painful. and doing any overhead pressing, I really have to adjust my scapula before I do that and make sure they're in their right position. I can get up there, but getting there can hurt until I get to this point.

And then when I press, I can get more comfortable with that. And then, you know, I go in and out of having very specific knee pain that does come along with inflammation. So, yeah, yeah. There's a couple things that we'll point to. And first, we got to get this out of the way. You've had things like nutrient levels tested to make sure your vitamin D levels are normal and all that. Have you checked that? Yeah.

I don't know if you guys have heard of the whole functional. I can't remember the name of it, but I had a whole mess of labs done. And I do believe D was in there. And I think that I'm pretty much in normal ranges. I also take D. I take $10,000 a day right now. Okay. We're fine there.

Okay. So a couple things I just want to point out. And it was something you said earlier that I want to kind of go back to. You said now with the reduced volume and the, you know, kind of better sleep, you feel like you're almost like feeling more pain than you did when you were over training and just running yourself ragged. You said that, right? So here's what kind of happens in those situations, right? Sometimes we train the heck out of ourselves because we're running. We're running from something.

And we don't give our bodies or ourselves a chance to feel. You probably know this better than anybody in the profession that with the profession that you do. I'm sure you've had people on your table, finally get a chance to relax, you work on them, and then they cry. And they're like, what's going on? Why am I tearful? It's like, well, you slow down just long enough for you to allow yourself to feel. And so it's not shocking to me that. now that you're allowing your body to heal, that you're treating yourself better, that you feel

more. There's a little bit of safety there. There's some safety there that now you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, to shut it off so you could survive. Does that make sense? That does make sense, yeah. Okay.

Here's the other thing. You're massaging a lot. I just, that's the direction I'm going. Massage therapy is very physical. And the. rate with massage therapist is through the roof. You know this better than anybody. But I've employed massage therapists and the injury rate is, it's very active.

You are in there. You're moving. And if you have to have good biomechanics and body positioning, but even with that, it's a very demanding physical job. It's also very emotionally demanding because you're not just putting your, you're not just using your body, but you're also feeling the person's emotions. that's what makes you probably what makes you a good massage therapist. So that's a lot of volume.

So you've got a lot of movement volume there. You've also got out of a long-term abusive relationship. It's only a couple of years out. You've also got your sleep still, although better is something you're kind of working on. But I'm going to point out it's been a few months and you've gone so far already. But I'm also going to point out something that might make you, might be a little bit more encouraging and a little bit more revealing to you.

How many years? How long did you bully yourself? How many years was that? Would you say? Let's say 32. And you are three months into taking care of yourself. It's going to take some more time. So you've been in this dark tunnel.

You kind of see some light, but it's a bit confusing. keep moving towards the light. Like you're doing the right stuff. You're doing the right stuff. Keep moving in that direction. You're going to have to take care of yourself for a while, actually for the rest of your life. And it's going to change.

What that looks like is it's going to change. But right now what it looks like is being gentle, giving yourself grace. And here's the places that I think you should lean. I don't think you should lean into workout and diet. Those are actually secondary, maybe even third. I think what you should lean. in to his community and joy. You mentioned dancing several times. I think that's, I think you should

lean into that. Do you have a good community around you of people that really know you and do life with you? Or do you, are you a little bit isolated because of life and stress and all that stuff? Yeah. I mean, the truth is is that I'm pretty, I am locked into a wonderful little community, but it's all online right now. But it's been really fun. and I've been with them for a year. So it's really great to have that consistency. And however, and I, you know, exactly what you're saying, I've intuited. And there have been a number of areas where I have sought out simple joy in my life.

Because I've always been, you know, just pushing myself to become do better. Like everything has been about self-improvement. So I have been getting into. Iqibana, which is like Japanese flower arranging that, brings me a lot of joy. Bonsai going to the, I'm volunteering at the Bonsai Gardens, dance. However, yes, all that being said, I'm a single mother of a 16-year-old child who has, you know, a lot of, he really needs me. I'm very much alone in that, and I don't get any financial support. So, you know, it doesn't leave me a lot of time.

And there are beautiful people in my life, but, you know, most of them, are busy with their families because of the time we're all in. So I don't get together with people often. And I do often feel quite alone. And, you know, I just, I have found certain things. I've found some things. And I've been reaching out a little bit more. So what I'm going to say is going to be difficult, but you can't take care of yourself by yourself. We, and I'm going to be preaching to the choir right now, because you know this. But you need, uh, people, physical people in your life that you do life with. You need that. It's going to help so much with healing. If the touch that you experience most weeks is you helping other people, but nobody

really doing that for you, there's a big imbalance there. There's a few places I can, there's a few things I can recommend that I think might help. I don't know how open you are to some of them. the easiest one that typically has built in communities and they value community is local churches. This is what really good churches do is you go in. You don't even have to be a part of the faith. You could just say, I want to be a part of the community and I need people around me. And you would be surprised and shocked at how many times these people are just, this is what they want to do. So that's one example.

Another example is volunteering or try to find a group. I think this will do so much for you, Tice. It will do so much for you in pain. It's going to help me with sleep, with recovery. Because right now you're doing it all by yourself. And it sounds like for 30 years, you've bullied yourself and then taking care of everybody else. And not really done it for yourself nor allowed anybody else or had anybody else that's really done that for you. I just want to echo what Sal is saying that I think he's on the right track of the thing.

Because one of the things for right away, what I said to you was. what a great job. You're doing such a good job on the exercise nutrition piece. You really are. And the mobility, mobility exercise, like, you're really checking a lot of that. It's just a matter of time now. If I were to get a little more technical on the, like, exercise selection thing. One of the things I know about a massage therapist is it's very anterior driven.

So you're doing a lot of pushing, which is you already notice that when you do pressing movements. And so I could modify the workout a little bit to be more posterior driven. so it you know just because we have a program laid out and we it's designed to be balanced kind of for everybody you're a unique situation and so I might do less shoulder press chest press stuff and I'd be doing more rows yeah more rows more hamstring more posterior and I think that would would help a little bit maybe with some of the the aches and pains and so like that so that's that's probably the most technical thing if I were to address any sort of nutrition exercise that you're doing but I really think you're doing a really good job there. It's more

leaning into Sal's direction that I think is going to serve you the most and time. And just simply just more time of taking care of yourself. We're just now heading into this stage of our life. I have a really strong feeling that you understand

some of the stuff I've saying because you probably recommended it to a lot of your clients. Massage therapists tend to be very in tune with this with other people. You know how important that is. and oftentimes people come to you, not just for the massage,

but for the connection and the touch. That, if you look at the data, I don't know how important data is for you, Tice, but for me, data tends to convince me, if you look at the data on loneliness and its contribution to pain, insomnia, hormone imbalance, and any chronic,

it's remarkable. It is remarkable. And you're coming out of a part of your life where, like, like you need this. Well, you needed it before, but now you're like, I really need,

here's the challenge, okay? We live in a society now where it used to be more automatic. You were around people just because that's what you had to do when you walked to the store. You went, now it's so easy to not be around people and be isolated

and everything has to be scheduled that you have to go out of your way to kind of do this. But I think the dance, I think finding a way, even if it's outside your comfort zone, I mentioned a church. You might think to yourself,

like I have nothing to do with that faith. It doesn't make any sense to me. But they do such a good job with community because it's a part of what they do that you could go to one and you can literally say, look, I'm not, you know, maybe this is you. I'm not a part of his faith. But I want to be around people.

And I need community. And I just got out of a bad relationship. And I'm not really doing life with anyone except for people online. Do you guys have any groups like that? And I guarantee you they're going to say, we do. And you go. and you just love on people and have them love on you.

And I think that'll make such a difference for you. Everything else you're doing, stay the course. You're not doing anything wrong. Stay the course. It's going to take some time, though. You're only three months in. You're looking at a year or two or three years of this kind of building up process. And it's going to feel better and better as you go through it.

But the challenge is this, though, okay, when you break out of an abusive relationship, and right now I'm not referring to the one you were talking about. I'm talking about the abusive relationship you had with exercise and nutrition. When you break out of it, it feels insecure because that's what you knew for so long. So that's all you know. As bad as it was, as abusive as it was towards you, that's what you knew. So now you're moving into something else and it feels like you're floating with no tether. Like, okay, I starting to feel better.

What am I supposed to do? Do I go more? Do I go harder? I don't know what I'm supposed to feel right now. And so it's going to be a process of getting used to what it feels like to do it right. It's just going to take some time. And you're doing really well. What you said over the last few months with bumping your calories and what I think you're, I mean, perfect.

I wouldn't change it. Yeah. I'm doing good. So here's what I want to do, Tice. I don't, I don't feel comfortable letting you just disappear back into the ether. I'd like to have you come back on in 30 days so we could do a little bit of this coaching. I would love that. Okay.

Let's have you come back on and third. 30 days. Okay. How does what I say, does any of it resonate to you? Is there any resistance? Does it feel like? You know, there's resistance with like going to a church. So I'm Jewish and I have been a part. I was very much a part of the local Jewish community, a couple of them here. But that's like my husband's, my ex-husbands, like, it's just been, no, like it's just been so uncomfortable. So it's not really my space anymore. I love those people, you know, not to mention that I'm just holding my life a little bit differently. I can say that, I mean, spirituality in general is an important part of my life, but, you know, finding the right

place where I feel, I don't have anything against churches, you know, whatsoever, but it doesn't feel like, I don't know, something doesn't feel like it's not my, it just doesn't feel like my place. I do feel, you know, community when I go to the gym, that feels funny to say, but like, I do, I go there even for my mobility every day. I go there at like 6 a.m. And I just like work on the green. And I know people and I see the same people and like we check in and we talk. And, you know, so I do get some of that human interaction there.

But I feel you like I do feel, you know, tears start welling up inside when you start talking about doing life with people, like having, you know, that regular. My suggestion for church was just because that one's the first thing that popped in. Well, the thing that's nice about that is because it's built in. But you said something right now. I mean, if you're open to, I mean, grab a cup of coffee with those people that you're seen in the gym. I mean, instead of it just ending right there in the gym, if you're connecting with some of

those people, then if, and you don't want to go to a place like a church to do it, then the other option is that is to lean into, hey, what are you doing? later on or let's get a cup of coffee and making that effort and doing that. Because there's a difference between, you know, we typically have, many of us have now what we're called duty-free relationships. So it's like, hey, how you doing? I'm doing great. Good to see you.

I'll see you tomorrow type of deal. Yeah. Versus the like doing life with people. They get in. They know what's going on. They know the struggle. It's like they see all of you. You see all of them type of deal.

And I mentioned. Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. I mean, the truth is is that there are people around here that I've known for years and years that I love, that love me, that know my story. We just don't get together, you know, so. Do it. Prioritize it. It's going to make, it'll make such a big difference, hon. There's another aspect here with pain.

Just keep trying. That, you know, I need to touch on. Part of it is your body's starting to feel safe, so you're starting to feel it. There's also this thing with pain where when you start to feel more joy, you start to feel less. pain. Yeah, man. The truth is that I've like gone through a lot of courses on, you know, the kind of neuroscience around pain. And I'm well aware of the, you know, kind of danger signal that pain is, you know, trying to convey. And that's not always about physical injury. A lot of times it's because there's something that you're perceiving that is unsafe about life in general.

And I've recognized that I have kind of an underlying anxiety that has, you know, been me feeling like life is kind of a dangerous place. So I'm working, I'm definitely working on that as well. And I've been, I work with the therapist as well, like for a few months now. And that's also been really helpful. So, yeah, I think what you're. you're saying is really, really important. And I have thought a lot about that with this, you know, with the increase in pain. Like, okay, well, I know, you know, that pain is a danger signal. Inflammation is too, you know, even the puffiness in the joints. Like that is something

that our brain has a role in creating in our bodies. And it does not necessarily mean that there's something wrong with my body. No. And just again, just to illustrate this, you know, I've had experiences where I was in an emergency situation. I had to exert my physicality and didn't notice I injured myself until much later when I calm down. Right. And so when you're in a like real like consistent fight or flight, you just don't feel it because you got to keep going. And I think part of this might be you're starting to feel safe to feel that pain. So what I want to do, I want to have you back on in 30 days

and try and turn this into an actionable thing. Like, okay, cool, I need to hang out with somebody. Maybe that looks like, you know that person that you love, you know that person that's there for you. And maybe that looks like this. You call them up and you say, I need to be around. I need a friend right now.

Can we meet up once a week? Can we just hang out once a week? Maybe that's what it looks like. but try something actionable with that. Keep the dancing. Keep doing the dancing because you love it. Stay the course with your workouts. Stay the course of nutrition.

Modify if you need, but you're doing everything right there. I wouldn't change anything. So as a full body two days a week, like that piece, I, you know, I've been wearing this Woop app and I heard your guys's podcast on like, you know, the tracking and all of that. It's actually been so helpful for me because, um, I can look at, you know, my recovery is in the red or in the yellow or in the green and then look back at the day before and be like, oh, this is what you did consistently. And my recovery is often really low when I have like big work days. Of course.

And I work out. So that's why I've been like, okay, is my work day coming across like, that's enough and I'm not going to be pushing the weights on those days. And then, you know, full body two days a week. Is that, does that seem reasonable? That's fine. I even like Maps 15 protocol for you. Yeah. Do you have that program?

That's what I was doing. Oh, stay there. Yeah. Well, that's what has been feeling like it's keeping me in a pain cycle. Like just lifting weights, the days that I'm working, when I'm doing 15, I've been doing it six days a week. You know, two lifts, that's it. And then I'm in pain. Here's how I would modify it.

I would go, Maps 15. Mm-hmm. When your work days are light, you do it. When they're heavy, you don't. And you just pick up where you left off. Okay. Okay. So it might look like maps 15, three days a week.

That's right. Yeah. So it doesn't, it does, you don't need it. You don't need a lot of volume. You've done a really good job of lifting weights very consistently for a while. And you've built good muscle. Like you don't get better results. You don't need to do a lot to maintain that.

And then I would add to that, that even give yourself the permission that if it's a pushing exercise and you've been pushing a lot, massaging, do a, a row instead. Do a row, do a lap pull down, do more posterior chain stuff. So you'll be okay with that. So we can modify it like that also. But you, Mass 15, when you feel good. That's right. I feel, you know, and I think that, I mean, not think, I definitely deal with the whole body dysmorphia thing. So I never know if I'm just like playing games with my brain, but I feel like I'm not, like I'll feel like I'm losing muscle. you know, and gaining, I mean, my clothes have been tight on me. I know you guys are like, oh, if you gain a couple pounds on the scale, no biggie.

And I'm just like, okay, whatever. Maybe I've gained a couple more than a couple pounds on the scale. Maybe my body just needs that right now. And so just let it go, let it go, trust, trust. First of all. But I'm still like I get nervous. No, no. First of all, your delts and your arms look amazing.

Okay, not to invalidate you, but you look great there. What does taking care of Taiseu look like when Taisei is? says that to herself. Yeah, I mean, that's like just returning to love, you know, just being like, and so what? You know, so what if you've gained some weight? So what if you're not having the muscles right now? Like, even if that is what's happening? It might not be what's happening.

But what does that matter? Love yourself. Like take care of yourself. Do what you need to do to be healthy, to get your sleep, to get your recovery. And, you know, the rest of it will come along in its own time. It's like trusting the timeline. Ironically, it looks like this. You're going to let go of the muscle and the body.

You're just going to let go of it. You're just going to exercise to feel good. Yeah. You're just going to eat right to feel good. And you're going to let go of the aesthetic stuff. Ironically, that's what's going to lead to the aesthetic stuff. I know. I feel this like inside.

Like, yeah. Yeah. This is a hard breakup. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to let go of the aesthetic stuff.

The exercise is to make you feel. better. If it doesn't make you fail better, don't do it. The nutrition is to make you feel better. That's it right now. Okay. Can we do that for 30 days and have you back on? Yeah. I mean, definitely. Uh-huh. Yeah. All right. I got to say that the day that I went in and did the full body workout, I felt so good because it was the first time in months that I had done that because I've been doing the 15. You know, I've been doing the shorter ones going into two lifts. But there was something about

going in there and just like pushing hard and like being there for an hour and like I just felt it does something in my brain you know I feel like there's this chemical something that happens and all of a sudden like it's empowering just looks brighter and beautiful and so I kind of you know like I don't know there's a part of me that really likes that too but you're saying not to kind to kind of go there there's nothing there's nothing wrong with that it feels like you accomplish something like, oh my God, I feel feeling okay again. There's a empowerment that comes from it. There's nothing wrong with that until it becomes detrimental.

We just got to be careful that that feeling that you're getting isn't a feeling of normalcy or old patterns. Because sometimes that feels really good too. It's like, oh, this, yes, this feels good. I know what this feels like. And so I like the idea that you had the whoop and you're measuring your recovery and you're seeing that because, you know, maybe you're on to something. Maybe that is going to give you a better balance, better sleep, and we see the metrics and you feel it. And that's a good sign. So this isn't like, go do this.

This is exactly the right answer for you. It's like, sure, we can play with that way of training. Let's see how it improves sleep. Let's see how it improves those things. If we see all those things go up, then we're on to something. If we don't, then maybe that feeling that you have is less of like it's actually serving you. And it's more of going back to other patterns that you had in the past. So I don't know that yet.

But when we check in 30 days with you, we'll talk more. but I think the main focus between now and 30 days, though, more than the workout, we'll get to the workout stuff. I think I'm less worried about that. It's what Sal is saying is go go get a, go do a date or two with some of your friends, or go join a community, or go learn a new dance. So you're in a community of people learning a new dance and you're meeting new people. And, I mean, do something, like do something actionable that way right now.

That's, to me, that's the prescription for now. You know what? Yeah. I just had a big, like, moment when you said that because I haven't been to a live in-person dance class, and that is a really nice way to collect another kind of community. Heck yes. If you love dance, that was the first thing came to my mind. I know Sal was the way.

The right thing that came to my mind, she loves dance. She said it like eight times we've been on this call. Love it. Like, I would be like, pick a dance you've never learned. Like, have you ever done swing? I don't know. It's in partners. Have you ever done?

Salcedadette, whatever the dance you haven't done and go join a new community and learn in a group of, you know, mess up and have fun and laugh and get to know somebody else who's also learning. And I bet you meet somebody at a similar place and then go have some coffee later. And I mean, lean into that. No, yeah, that's good. That's good. I like that. I like that. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. All right. Good. That's your homework. We're going to see you in 30 days. We'll see you in 30 days. You know what? I'll see you guys in like two days. Oh, you're coming. Are you coming here? Oh, great. Oh, great. Oh, great. Good. Oh, awesome. Now I can give you a hug and really Oh, God. If I would have known that, we would have done less talking right now.

I just talk to you in person. We'll do a follow. Oh, good. We'll see you on Saturday. Awesome. Yeah, I'll see you guys on Saturday. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Okay. Awesome. Bye. See you. I assumed she was taking a class with dance. No. That's what I thought. That's great.

What I envisioned because the way she was saying is like she goes out dancing. Oh, yeah. Right? She just loves to go out dancing. No, that's perfect. But that was the first thing came in my mind. It's like, go learn it. Because if, you know, you see, like, when you go learn like that, like everybody's kind of messing up and there's loud.

And it's like, that's like, it's perfect. Perfect. Yeah. Meet somebody like that. No, it's crazy. You guys, look at the data on loneliness and its effect on pain, chronic illness, blood lipids, cancer, heart disease. You name it. It is a major risk factor for everything bad.

Yeah. And when you don't have that, especially when you come out of what she did, I mean, you could do all the stuff on your own all you want. And it'll help. But having those people around you, man, it makes a big deal. difference. Our next caller is Andrew from Ontario. Andrew, what's up, man? What up, Andrew. Not too much. How are you guys doing? Good, good, man. How can we help you? Yeah, so, you know, I'll read off the email here like everybody else, but I've been a listener for a short time now. I started my fitness journey as of February, 2026, 30 years old, six foot, 280 pounds,

heavy equipment operator at mine doing a rotation 14 days in 14 days out doing a push pull leg split with active recovery on rest days so I've been doing a 20 minute incline walks and then mixing in 20 minutes on us with that my workout was provided by chat chbt being mindful of keeping my protein intake high 200 220 grounds is what I've been shooting for. So being a camp job for two weeks, I'm, you know, I'm eating camp food, so I'm pretty limited on trying to keep whole foods coming in, but, you know, do the best I can with fat. When I was 13 years old, I also had my gallbladder removed for gallstones.

My question is, you know, how do I keep continuing to gain strength while losing fat? and, you know, maybe a fitness program to accommodate my two weeks in, two weeks out schedule, while I have access to a gym and, you know, at home, I don't quite have everything. And then some nutrition guidance for having my blood are removed. Oh, good. Okay, so real quick, the routine that you're doing, how do you, do you, are you able to follow that when you're at your remote location? Usually at home, that's why I'm limited access to equipment.

So wintertime, I have access to a full gym when I'm at home. Summertime, I'm out of my summer camp. So I picked up a couple kettlebells this summer. I got 35 and a 45-pound kettlebell that I've been working out with. But that's all I have throughout the summertime. Okay. Okay, so, and then how's the workout been working for you since you've been doing it? It's been good.

I mean, I've noticed improvements on my fitness, clothes is looser now. Day-to-day activities is much better. Okay, good. And so this has been happening since February, So you're already seeing some great progress then. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And how consistent are you with the protein intake? Every day.

I make sure I hit it. Are you eating mostly whole foods? You stick into like meal prepping and stuff? Mostly whole foods, but when I'm at work, that's when I'm limited to what I get, right? So they're feeding us while we're up there. Got it. Okay. So, okay, wait, I want to be clear here because I think this is important.

It sounds like the, you're better, you're better on diet and consistency when you're when you're home and you have you can you can prep and so that but you're better on consistency on the workouts when you're on your on camp is that right am i getting that right yeah you got her okay so the the part that i and and if you're getting that protein intake consistently while you're lifting and camp we're probably doing pretty good but that would be my big concern is that are we are we still hitting our protein intake consistently at camp where you don't have as much control of the food? Yeah, no, I am.

I'm hitting my protein shakes. Oh, okay. If I feel like I'm low, I'll hit my protein shakes and stuff like that. Creatine, I'm getting 10 milligrams of creatine in a day. Okay. Bro, you're doing good. You are doing good. So what you need really is, I mean, fix your pro.

Yeah, I think what it needs, what you need is I think a suspension trainer workout for your home would be perfect. And so you'd be strength training at home with a suspension trainer. And then when you're on location, then you go back to the weights. I love that. Okay. I have a program called MAP suspension. I can send that to you. He could also do MAPS 15, the suspension version when he's at home and then the

advanced one when he's at work. That would actually be a good... Well, tell me about the workout that you got from Chat, GPT, that push-pull legs. It's three days a week, and how long is each workout taking it? What does that look like? My workouts are averaging about 45 minutes an hour. It's hard because I'm working 12-hour shifts while I'm at work. So I'm trying to fit gym in, trying to get my eight hours of sleep while getting food and showering.

So it's pretty, it's tight. Would it be plausible? Does this work for you? Instead of doing three days a week, you're doing more like five or six days a week, but you're only doing two lifts a day? Yeah, I could do that. Okay. I mean, while I've been doing this, I've been trying to build the consistency of going to the gym every day. So whether it's just going in there to hit the treadmill, if I'm not lifting or doing something.

Oh, we're good. We're good, dude. We're going to send you map 15. When you're at the gym, you do the gym version. When you're at home, you do the suspension version. Yep, yep. That's it. You just follow it.

Yep. You're set, dude. And that's perfect. And with diet, stay the course. Because here's the deal with diet. You're going to want to do all kinds of crazy stuff, cut. No. You hit your protein, stick to whole natural foods.

Consistency is everything. Over time, you're going to get body comp change. You're going to lean out. You're going to lean out. You're going to build muscle and lose body fat. I'm not even worried about the scale that much. You shouldn't see big swings on the scale if you're eating properly and your strength training. Not initially.

Yeah, you're going to, especially the first six months to a year he's at where he's at right now. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to, and so, and you feel it. You kind of already feel it. You just need someone to tell you, dude, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, pace and a better workout for you will be MAP 15 protocol because that'll be every day. It's just two lifts.

When you got the gym equipment, you're hitting the barbell movements, which is going to be great for you. When you're at home and you have limited equipment, you're going to do the suspension trainer and follow it as it's laid out. That's it. And if you do anything more, it's walking. That's it. So if you got extra time or you are at the gym and it's a technically walk.

I'm already pretty active. Like when I'm out home, I'm hitting 10, 12,000 steps a day. Usually pretty easy. When I'm at work, that's when it's a gym. different because I'm in machines all day and stuff like that. So that's when it probably drops like five to seven thousand. But that's also when you're getting the good lifting in. So it's great.

It's a good balance. Yeah, yeah. It's a perfect program for you, bro. You just keep following it. You just switch from suspension trainer to barbells. Okay. And then what should my calorie intake? I'm not.

I've been just kind of eating while I'm hungry. I'm not really too worried about cutting. That's exactly what we tell you. We would tell you eat when you're hungry, eat whole foods, hit your protein intake. Calories will land when they're calories land. If you're trying to stick mostly to whole foods, then your calories are going to go where they need to. If you start eating lots of processed foods, fast food, junk food, that's when things get crazy.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like my lunches, it's like basically all fruit. Then I got my protein rice or potatoes or something for my carb and then that's basically it. Bro, you're going to go too crazy. No, you're doing good, bro. Just stay consistent.

Do not get caught in the like, I got to make this happen faster mentality. That's what you'll mess up. Yeah, yeah. We don't need. Okay. Yeah. That's it, man. Okay.

Yeah. Okay, right on. You got it, bro. I appreciate it, guys. Follow 15 all the way through the way we're telling you, and then I'd love to hear back from you what you saw. I think you get great results for this. Yep.

Okay, yeah, I can do that. All right, Andrew. We'll send that over to you. We're going to beat out the robots. Awesome, thanks, guys. Appreciate it. All right. Why'd you be...

He's changing Tia. I'm just saying. Oh, that's insane. We're coming for those robots. Yeah. I mean, it's perfect. It's perfect for what he was looking for. No, it's absolutely about it.

Because that's a lot of people don't know that. Maps 15 has two options in there. Suspension trainer or barbell, you know, dumbbell work. And so such a unique flip though, right? Yep.

I have better access to the gym when I'm at work. At work. At work. When I'm home, I don't have as much. I'm limited, you know, so but perfect,

you know? Our next caller is Joseph from Australia. What's up, how you doing, Joseph? Hey, how you guys doing? Good.

How can we help you? Um, so I've kind of reached out because I, I'm 6-2 and I've never done to basketball in my life. So I had an MPFL reconstruction when I was 19. So it was about six years ago. And I've kind of had on and off pain the last six years. And that means I have to pretty much warm up for 30 minutes before I play basketball,

before I do legs at the gym or anything. So I pretty much keep getting injured. So I'm kind of trying to sort that out while also being out of dunker basketball. And I'm not sure how to structure my training so that I'm not overloading my legs. Yeah, good question. So easy, by the way. I'm looking at your email. It says you play basketball on Mondays?

Yeah, at the moment. Yeah. And you're playing for how long? It's just a full game. Okay. Yeah. And then I also see here that you have a 20% imbalance. in your hamstrings and 40% imbalance in your quads

based on a physio session you had two weeks ago? Yes, I was on a road in. I've been back since and that's gotten a lot better. Okay. Maps 15 symmetry would be perfect for you. Yeah, I was just going to say. It's all unilateral. Living there for a while.

It's the right amount of volume for you while you're playing basketball. And I think that it's a perfect routine for you. And I would stay there for a while. Two things. because they're kind of addressing, I feel like the pain and making sure we balance ourselves out

and everything like that's for sure. The vertical thing, uh, one, I don't know how much strength you've gained in like just your regular old squat. Uh, I remember going from not being able to dunk to be in all the dunk, uh,

was just once I, once I got my squat, you know, over like 250 pounds, I could throw down the basketball so easy. And my whole life up into that, which was, you know, playing basketball. and as a kid doing all the vertical jump things

and trying to figure that like nothing worked. I couldn't dunk. All of a sudden I stopped worrying about playing basketball as much. I start strength training like crazy. Try to be a bodybuilder. Put on 20 pounds, which makes it even more difficult. But I put weight up on a squat bar and then all of a sudden I could dunk the basketball.

It was like overnight. So that's a big one. It's like if you just get big, strong, powerful legs from squatting. A lot of times that'll shoot somebody right up there. The other thing is technique. If you don't follow Paul Fabriots already, you got to follow Paul. Do you follow Paul Fabriots?

Oh, bro. Yeah. Pull up your Instagram right now and go to... Cory Schlesinger. Yeah. Pull up and look up Paul Fabrit's PGAF performance. This is he is the goat when it comes to vertical jump. And he talks, one of the things we've interviewed him on here,

so you can listen to his interview that we've done with him. And I've talked to him about he'd have athletes. and in the same session, increase their vertical as much as six inches in them. And just by teaching better technique. So learning better technique. You have to be healthy. Your joints have to be able to withhold, you know, a lot more force.

And really so the process with that, and this is why like symmetry makes a lot of sense, even the regular symmetry, because in the beginning we're really focusing on isometric, you know, stabilizing these positions and increasing force in those positions. so you know, you're able to reinforce your joints. So that way, too, you're allowed to produce more force.

So to be able to get more explosive and not necessarily, I mean, obviously, like, building strength in your legs is going to improve that, you know, substantially. But when we, to be able to build upon that and get to the point where you're going to peak and do a lot more plyometric work and, you know, a lot more explosive movement, you know, we're really going to need to reinforce that. So going through that process of reinforcement, you know, the first phase of symmetry, especially, I would almost repeat that maybe, you know, one cycle and then, you know, go through that, you know, work your way all the way until we do the five by five, see where you're at. I guarantee you'll see quite a bit of it. So, Justin, you think regular symmetry will be in best?

All right, let's send him regular symmetry. And then I see here in your Cal, your food intake, it says you're averaging between 2250 to 2,500. I've changed that. What is it at you? Between 26 and 2,900. Okay. And you're hitting protein?

So I don't know. Sorry? You're hitting your protein targets? Yeah. I'm getting about, I'm probably getting more. I'm getting about 200 every day. Good.

That's good. That's good. Stay consistent with them. Yeah. So I wasn't sure if I needed more or not. No, no, stay consistent with that. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I'm getting married in just over two months. I was trying to just like lose a little bit of, Mm-hmm. Well, just know that all three of those are like, different going, right? Right. Like, rehabbing for injury, getting vertical jump and get ready, shredded for a wedding, or all three, like. Rehabing, we need to feed. Yeah. I'm pretty happy with it right now. Okay, good. Okay, good. Worst thing you could do is try to create, like, rush something within two months. So, yeah, don't worry about your wedding. You look great.

She's already going to marry you. You won. Yeah. Yeah. And just lots and weights will help. Slowly bumping your calories. You're probably going to be around 32, 3, 3,300. at some point. Yeah, at least. And map symmetry. That's your program. And that'll help balance things out and it'll improve your strength

in a way that should contribute to your vertical. Do you follow the NBA? Yes, very much so. So Mac McLung, okay, that's his trainer, is Paul Fabritz. Ah, yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so that's, I mean, definitely go through his stuff. He's got incredible stuff around vertical. So he's definitely the goat when it comes to that stuff. Easy. That's good. You got it, brother. Congratulations, too, by the way.

Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. All right, man. All right, thanks. See you. Yeah. Yeah, I like that basketball player. Stop, dude.

You know, authentic. Yeah, you know, when I saw in his email and the physio saw that in about 40% imbalance in balance in quads, that's a big deal. It's a big one. Yeah. I mean, just balancing that out should make a big difference. Sure. Yeah, yeah. But like what you said out, I'm like, there's a skill involved.

involved. There's, you know, how quickly you fire. But then the strength. Strength is the base. Oh, dude, I, I, I, so I was this kid, right, who I'm six, two and a half, six three, right? Uh, wanted a vertical, couldn't dunk the basketball in high school, uh, worked on it, did the strength shoes, did cabs like crazy, did all the stuff, right? Back then they had no idea what we're doing. Uh, got into my 20s, uh, moved to the Bay Area, became a personal trainer, cared about my body the way it looked, put on like 20 pounds, got into squatting, all of a sudden go out to the basketball court. Just surprise yourself?

Oh, bro, two-handed jam. Like, what? Like out of nowhere. And I went, I haven't picked up a basketball and I'm heavier. But it was, that's how much. Strength adds a lot. Oh, that's how much just fundamental good strength in your legs can make a huge difference. And so that would be, I mean, a guy that kind of hiked already, that would be the end of direction.

I would go. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance,

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