Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2931: The Exact Foods to Eat to Lose Fat Without Starving Yourself

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

MAPS BOGO: https://mapsbogo.com Buy one get one free — mix and match any of the top 10 most popular programs (Anabolic, Aesthetic, Performance, 15 Minutes, Anywhere, Symmetry, Starter, Muscle Mommy, Powerlift, 40+) In this episode the guys lay out an exact meal plan — breakfast, lunch and dinner — to get lean fast with whole foods, very high protein, berries, rice and greens. They also cover a wild brief history of bad medical science including heroin cough syrup for kids, radioactive water prescribed for vitality, thalidomide causing 10,000 birth defects, Crisco replacing lard on doctor's orders, and OxyContin — and why historical context should make anyone skeptical of anyone who says "just trust the science." They also get into Adam taking his sons to Laguna Seca for Monterey Car Week, F1 driver athleticism and the physics of brake force at 120 pounds, how Sal uses Ketone IQ to extend his energy window past his caffeine cutoff, a new study showing red light therapy produced more fat loss than diet alone while improving lipids and inflammatory markers, a hydrogel wound healing technology that speeds recovery by 90%, and a nuanced breakdown of cold plunge data showing less muscle growth but potentially more training volume capacity. Then they coach live callers submitted through mplivecaller.com.   SPONSORS Butcher Box: https://butcherbox.com/mindpump No code needed. Free ribeyes, NY strip steaks or filet mignons in every order for a year plus $20 off first box. Top picks: Ribeyes, Bone-in Chicken Thighs, Premium Steak Tips, Baby Back Ribs, Gluten Free Chicken Nuggets, Flat Iron Steaks. Ketone IQ: https://ketone.com/MINDPUMP 30% off subscription orders plus a free gift with your second shipment. Sal discusses using it after his caffeine cutoff to extend energy through the afternoon. Dose for Your Liver: https://dosedaily.co/MINDPUMP Code: MINDPUMP35 for 35% off first month subscription. Clinically backed liquid liver supplement, zero sugar, zero calories.   LINKS Submit a live caller question: https://mplivecaller.com Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   0:00 - Intro 2:20 - Exact meal plan to get lean fast — breakfast, lunch and dinner 6:17 - Why skipping breakfast sets you up for hormonal dysfunction 10:00 - Breakfast: 30-50g protein, 2 cups of blackberries and why this combination works 12:32 - Lunch: Ground beef, half to one cup of rice and 2 cups cooked greens 14:42 - Dinner: 6-8oz meat, large sweet potato and cooked greens — why carbs at dinner works 17:27 - Meal prep is the key — the Butcher Box ground beef anchor meal strategy 22:13 - A brief history of terrible medical science — heroin cough syrup to OxyContin 32:10 - Covid retrospective — Jessica's friend trip to Truckee and catching it mid-argument 40:12 - Adam takes his sons to Laguna Seca for Monterey Car Week — F1 driver athleticism 49:44 - How Sal uses Ketone IQ after his caffeine cutoff to extend energy 50:02 - New red light therapy study — more fat loss than diet alone, better lipids and inflammatory markers 52:24 - Hydrogel wound healing technology that speeds recovery by 90% 53:31 - Cold plunge data breakdown — less muscle growth but more training volume capacity 1:05:19 - Caller: Chris (Connecticut) — 10 months, lost 20 pounds, wants to build muscle and get a physique 1:18:34 - Caller: Kyle (Delaware) — knee bursitis, joint fluid, high rep programming and pain-free training 1:34:10 - Caller: Michael (Louisiana) — 65 years old, back into lifting for 3 years, wants to optimize 1:43:44 - Caller: Ryan (Indiana) — 6'6", 250 pounds, gained 25 pounds of muscle, wants next steps

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All right, you guys asked for it. You constantly ask for it. Tell me what to eat. Now, of course, there's a huge individual variance. It's very difficult to do when we're talking to tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, especially millions of people. But we're going to try anyway. Here's what we're going to do.

We're going to tell you what to eat to get lean fast. We're going to be specific on what the best. breakfast, lunch, and dinner is that you could do that'll probably get you phenomenal results. Let's go. I actually really like this because, yeah, we're going to get, I'm sure, roasted by some talking head about, you know, this is like,

what about somebody who's this? And what about like the... Obviously. But that being said, these general guidelines or this generic meal pen that you wrote right here, most people, if they just stuck to it, like real close to it. That's right.

Give or take, you know, a couple ounces up or north of something, you know, if you're smaller or bigger, would get an incredibly great shape just eating this way. Yeah. And I picked, I tried to pick foods that not everybody, okay? Because I know, again, we're talking to a lot of individuals here, but most people would find good enough. In other words, what we're not going to give you is this crazy, boring diet that's impossible. Yeah. We're going to put in foods. Now it's whole food based, of course.

You put your own spices in it. Yeah. And these are foods that most people are okay with eating. And there's some options for variety within what we're saying. But generally speaking, and we're going to give some ranges here, because we know we're talking to both men and women. So women generally are going to be on the lower end, men on the higher end.

If you follow something like this and you're consistent with it, especially if your diet is like the typical Americans diet. This will be a massive improvement over your current diet. And what you'll notice is this. Here's what you're notice. in combination with a decent workout, with an appropriate workout, what you'll notice is you'll get leaner,

you'll also get stronger. You'll build some muscle. You'll also burn some body fat. And you're not going to feel like you're starving yourself. That's what this is going to feel like. You're going to feel kind of good. So the point I was going to make with it, when I'm looking at this diet,

and we're assuming these people are lifting weights, right? A good following a good program with it. What you should expect, though, is not a lot of movement on the scale. Yeah. And this is probably the most difficult part for somebody who's going to follow something like this is they'll eat this way, because obviously the title,

you know, eat this to get lean fast, right? So get lean fast is going to attract the person who wants to lose body fat or drop weight on the scale. Tons of weight on the scale. Right. But what I know by what you wrote here, this is going to be a much higher protein diet than that that person is probably eating,

which is a great thing. It's going to be satiety producing. It's now going to give them appropriate amount of protein in order to build muscle. so that paired with lifting weights, what this should result in is absolutely a leaner physique the fastest way possible, but what a leaner physique,

the fastest way possible, actually looks like is little movement on the scale because there's this beautiful exchange of you're adding a pound of muscle, you're losing a pound of fat, which is net zero on the scale. And so if you do take this advice and you follow it

and you're following it to get lean fast, do not measure your result, by what you see on the scale. Yeah. Because to your point, you're going to get stronger on this and you should lose body fat on this, which will typically show little to no movement

at the beginning on the scale. I'm glad you said that later, especially if you have a lot of body fat to lose, you will see lots of body fat come off. But in the beginning, especially, as you're building muscle, stoking that metabolic rate, there's not going to be a ton of movement on the scale.

Proper pure fat loss is more of a snowball effect then what people typically experience when they do it the wrong way, which is an initial rapid weight loss on the scale, which includes half of it being muscle, then there's really hard plateau, and then eventually you give up. All right, let's get to the diet, and we'll start with breakfast.

Now, here's a deal. I know a lot of people like to skip breakfast. I don't think it's a good idea for most people. Now, there are situations where skipping breakfast may be beneficial. Typically, people with gut health issues are the people that fall into this category, but generally speaking, skipping breakfast sets you up, for the most part. This is especially true for women, less true for men, but also true for men. This sets you up for hormonal dysfunction.

Now that's maybe a little strong. But essentially, we're not optimizing our hormonal state by completely skipping breakfast. And this tends to set us up for failure later on. Now, in the extreme cases, when people skip too many meals, we start to see some thyroid dysfunction. this becomes much more common in women, cortisol spikes, in men less common, but you'll start to see some of that as well when this gets real extreme.

But you do see these swings in how people eat. You start to see energy levels swing. At first, maybe more energy from skipping. But then as the body adapts to the increased catacomalomy production, all that stuff, then they start to feel dead. So skipping breakfast, generally not a good idea. It's also very difficult to hit protein if you skip breakfast. Like, good luck hitting optimal.

protein if your first meal is new. Now you've got to digest and absorb, you know, protein in really big amounts and it's a lot more difficult. So I was going to ask you if the stuff that we are aware of, that hormonally like thyroid stuff, when somebody is skipping breakfast, is that because of skipping breakfast or is that more connected to the fact that they're more likely eating too low of protein and maybe missing healthy fats that's causing that? independent of the total calories, proteins, carbs, all that stuff, going for long periods without food has a stronger stress response in women than it does for men. So independent of that.

So if somebody was really good still about hitting their proteins and fats, it still has some potential negative effects. Yes. And I know some people are like, oh, it doesn't bother me. I'm okay. And so, yeah, there's a little bit of an individual variance. But when you look at generally the data, and look, I'll speak from experience. When fasting became very popular, I had lots of clients trying it.

In generally speaking, women responded poorly to fasting. And I had male clients that were okay. Some responded well, some not so well. But most of my female clients eventually turned out to be terrible. And we had hormone effects as a result. And then again, try to hit your protein targets. I remember going like a full year. And initially, you know, skipping breakfast and just having coffee worked for me.

And I had that, like, energy spike in the morning. Dude. And then it just completely didn't work for me anymore. Yep. And, yeah, everything got slower. My energy just bonked. And so, yeah, I had to reintroduce. I mean, I never used the, when I was trying to explain this to clients,

I never used the argument of a better hormone profile. It was purely always, in my experience, you just can't hit your protein without it. Very few. I mean, there are always exceptions to the rule when we communicate to an audience to size. but for the most part, and in my experience, every client that I ever had, when I first assessed their diet, I always had to bump protein.

They were always under. They were either grossly under-eating or they were less than optimal always. And so skipping breakfast was never a good strategy from that context. It was like, we're already under-eating to say, let's just not even eat one whole meal in there. It would just made that more difficult.

And then they were playing ketchup. all day and all night and then many times having to have this if they were still able to hit the protein to get this massive dinner that then affected impeded sleep so I was just over

a family member's house and she just started tracking and I'm looking at it okay on average on average she's eating 40 to 50 grams of protein a day that is that is the norm that is the norm and you know what it's the norm by people who think they eat a lot of protein

oh she did say that I'm having protein Because they eat meat or they do that. They're not, they're not. Because they have meals that always that have that, they just assume that they're. Yeah, she's like, I had an egg sandwich for breakfast and then a little turkey here. And I'm like, it's 50 grams for the whole day. Yeah. Her highest day of protein was 100 grams.

And that happened once an entire week. And that to her was like insane. Yeah. When ideally, honestly, ideally for her would have been closer to 130. But she was averaging 50. And that's most people. Yes. And if you want to, you want more details on why optimal protein helps with fat loss.

We've done so many episodes on it, but it's very, well studied. All right, let's go into breakfast. Here's what breakfast will look like for you, okay? For, and I'm giving a range here for women to men, you want to start off with some kind of meat or eggs. You want a good source of protein. You're looking at probably six to eight ounces of meat with eggs. You're looking at probably six to eight or nine. Eggs, a lot more than you think. About 30 to 50 grams of protein. You want 30 to 50 grams of protein with breakfast. The other thing you're going to have with it is two cups of blackberries. Blackberries are incredible sources of fiber. They also have some carbohydrates, but they're very low in the glycemic

index. You're going to start your day off with 30 to 50 grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs, 15 grams of fiber. The fiber plus the protein is going to produce a satiety that's going to last for the rest of the day. You're going to have better insulin sensitivity the whole day because you started, and this is what the data shows, start your day off high protein, high fiber. Your blood sugar levels are more blunted. So you're not going to have the high, bikes in low lows. Crazy cravings. That's right.

And it helps a lot with mood and cravings to start the day off that way. So my favorite is to actually have a blend of the two meat and eggs. So I don't have to have seven or eight eggs. I can have four eggs in like three to four ounces of one of those meats. Yep. Ends up being this beautiful 50 grams. And they go so well together. They do.

Scramble eggs up with some beef or leftover chicken is so good. Maybe I'm a little bit bigger guy. and so I can totally afford it. And also an ounce of cheese on top of that too. So not with this beautiful breakfast. Yeah, four eggs or three eggs, scramble with like three, four ounces of chicken thighs. You scramble it up.

And I always, you know, this has always been a huge hack for me. If you listen to the show and heard me say it a million times, I apologize. But for someone who hasn't, the hack is make whatever you made from the previous night dinner just a bigger portion size so that leftovers can be. So it's like if you did a grander,

brown beef dish, you did a chicken dish, steak to any of these dishes, and you prepare dinner, just throw an extra slab of meat on there or an extra pound of meat on there, whatever it is. And then that leftover now can be the next two mornings of breakfast with a couple eggs. Now, it's interesting about this because I know people are listening and they're going, I can't eat that for breakfast. That's like huge. Like, what are the three scrambled eggs plus meat inside of it? I can never do that.

And the same people they're saying this are the same people that are struggling with weight loss. People who need to lose 40 to 50 pounds. You can train yourself to do it. Later in the day, they have no problem eating tremendous amounts of calories. I'm telling you right now, if you make this happen in the morning, it will positively affect the rest of the day. And yes, it's going to feel hard at first. That's the point. It will.

It's going to feel difficult at first, but get this consistently, the rest of the day is affected in a positive way. Rather than what people typically do, which is small to nothing or sugar, and then the rest of the day is in the toilet. All right. Let's talk about lunch. This is a great, easy meal you can pack. It's delicious. 30 to 50 grams of protein of ground beef. You could go with really lean ground beef if you want.

A half a cup to a cup of rice and two cups of well-cooked greens. So now you've got your carbohydrates, your proteins, your fats, and you've got your greens. And you can add what's really good about this, a ground beef and rice bowl with salsa. The salsa adds barely any calories. It's really delicious, like a breed bowl. Yeah, you just mix all this in one thing. Mix it all together. This isn't going to look pretty.

No, and it's really good. It's convenient. You can bring it with you to work. It takes a minute and a half in the microwave. And you've got another 30, 50 grams of protein. You've got your carbohydrates and fats from the meat and your greens, which help with digestion. By the way, an example of this, too, is another example of this, you know, cut in half or a quarter mixed with some of the eggs for the next breakfast next day, it works too. So a lot of these, what I like about this, like kind of, you know, foundation or anchor meals that you're building.

right now is that they work really well and they're interchangeable with breakfast, lunch and dinner, which we're always trying to simplify it for clients that, like, if you're already trying to train them to eat whole foods consistently, then trying to do it how we did it back in the days when we get a printoff from the computer that would just tell us to me, like, all these random meals that you had to go out of your way to prepare and make it. It's like, you can do a lot of this stuff in bulk and then package it a little different for breakfast lunch and dinner to make you feel like it's more of a dinner or it's more of a breakfast, right? And this bowl right here, I have yet to find a client that actually gets sick of this bowl.

Sounds so basic. So easy to digest, though. You feel so much better after eating the meal. And it tastes good. It's easy. It's an easy meal. It tastes good. It's not hard to put down.

And it's very easy to store. You put in a container. You got it in the fridge. Take it to work the next day. We're all set. All right. Let's get to dinner. 6 to 8 ounces of meat.

So again, we're looking at 30 to 50 grams of protein. a large sweet potato, which is probably the sweet potato we'll find at the grocery store. Funny story with this, when you look at macros on things like potatoes and it says medium, it's typically a five-inch sweet potato,

which if you go to the grocery store, the sweet potatoes are all super big, like twice as big. Oh, yeah. Five-inch sweet potato, like where do you find the tiny little thing? I mean, I've shared the story a long time ago of when I first started weighing

and measuring track of food, the sweet potato was one of the first things that blew my mind because before this I was using just like a calorie king book that I used to have and that's how they it's either small medium or large sweet potato and what I was because when I and then when I go the grocery store you can you can visually in your head see what the smaller ones and what the larger ones look like the smaller ones are bigger than what the book had as the extra large ones and so I was like I mean hundreds of calories off my estimation when I actually

weighed them out and we're like, oh, wow. And same thing for like bananas. Bananas are another one where it's like, you know, what the book would say is a small banana, like that doesn't even exist in grocery stores. Like the smallest banana is an extra large banana. And so weighing these. What has happened to food where they've done that? Everything's just gotten larger.

It's got to be, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, selective. What they call it? Selective farming. It's like the breeding. Dude, it's true for everything.

Get an apple. Look what they think is a normal size of apple. You get strawberries like this, like this. You get a strawberry the size of an apple now. And original strawberries were like, they're berries. They look like not much bigger. They were a little bit bigger than blackberries or blueberries. They weren't these giant things this big.

That's wild. Yeah, we've bred them. Pumpkins now? Oh, my God. Same thing with chicken breast. Anyway, so 68 ounces of meat. Get yourself a sweet potato. Two cups of cooked greens.

You've got your proteins, your fibers, your carbohydrates. You've got some good vegetables there. Cook. By the way, the reason why I say cooked greens, if you want your vegetables to really help with digestion, cook them well. If you want them to hurt your digestion, eat them raw. And that's true. So raw vegetables, not so great for digestion.

Well cooked, very well cooked, make a difference. But there you have it with the meals. And so what you're looking at is 90 to 150, you know, or so grams of protein per day. So that's going to cover the range. Now, here's a deal. Some of you guys are going to need more protein than this. this is where shakes come in handy. So now you can have a shake post-workout, 30, 50 grams of protein.

And now you're getting, for most people, in those optimal ranges. Now here's what's key with what we just said, okay, meal prep. Meal prepping is key with all of this. In fact, meal prepping is key to be able to eat healthy in general. What really messes people up consistently is that they're hungry, it's time to eat, and their options are basically what they can door dash or what they can drive to or what's in their pantry or what's at the office, none of which are ever typically good ideas.

But if you meal prep, you know, twice a week or whatever, you're set with your meals and your odds of consistency. And it's crazy that we overcomplicate this and we make it sound like it's this big ordeal or like you plan a whole day of cooking this. But the things that you chose, like sweet potato and white rice, but you cook those in bulk. The chicken breast, the ground beef,

cook those in bulk, pounds of it at a time to last you two or three days. No different than if you were to make it a meal for just you and your spouse, you just for exit. I mean, you just put more of it on the grill or in the crock pot or in the oven. It's like, so the time and effort.

And then the last bit is like, you know, having yourself some nice glass Tupperware that you, and once you get this down, right, like this system of what it looks like. I mean, I've got my half cup scooper for my rice, my big rice cooker, and I've got all the, you know,

I've definitely got a lot of glass Tupperware that I've, so I have plenty of always that are the perfect size for this stuff. And once you kind of figure all that out, this becomes really routine, really easy to do. And it's funny that a lot of the motivation for me today has been to save money, how ridiculous it is to eat out. Oh, yeah. This saves so much money. Yeah.

doing this. So much money. The whole myth about eating healthy is more expensive. Eating healthy is only more expensive if you go to restaurants that advertise eating healthy. They'll charge you more for that. Everything all pre-packaged. Yeah.

But if you make it yourself, you save a ton of money. Heaven forbid you have a dash to your house these days. Oh, gosh. You spend an exorbitant amount of money eating these crappy processed foods that aren't even that good that are way overpriced. So, yeah, I mean, then you throw in something like a butcher box where you can buy things in bulk,

you can have it shipped to your house. I just want to add, like, if you try this, listen, if you're listening and you're like, okay, I'm going to give this a shot and you give it a shot for 30 days, it's going to blow your mind at a few things. One, how much strength you gain? Most people listening, if they did this,

they're going to be like, oh, my God, I'm suddenly getting stronger. Always surprising for me. Every time. Like, every time I'm lifting, my weight's going up. This will happen if you go, if you're the typical, like, I barely eat protein two. A lot of times, that's the end up.

That's the unlock. You don't even realize it. Number two, this is really going to blow you away. You're going to feel like you're getting leaner simultaneously feel like you're eating a lot of food. If you eat like this, protein and fiber, especially protein is so satiety producing that you're going to eat this way and you're going to be like, I feel like I'm stuffing myself, what's going on? Then a month later, you're like, how did my waist go down a half an inch? I feel like I'm eating so much food. You're actually eating less calories than you would have if you were eating processed foods and eating out.

But the protein aside. And number three, you will fill it in your pocketbook. You will say it. And you think it's the opposite because like you said, you're, I mean, buy nice cuts of meat. Buy all that stuff like that. And you're eating maybe three or four times a day versus what you were before, two times. You'll still save money.

Totally. It's still when you, especially like again, like I brought a butcher box, you do something like that where you have something on subscription. That's a deal. You get your ground beef falls sent to you, grass fed. And you cook in bulk like this. I have saved so much. much more money eating this way.

That's the number one thing I get from butcher box is the ground beef. It's the largest of the, because we cook so much of it and we cook it all together. We cook the pot of rice. We have it sitting there. Easy meal together. And if you want to, you know, spruce it up, you salsa, you can put guac on there, cheese or whatever. I just typically do rice and meat. Yeah, most consistent, easy way to handle that.

And their ground beef is really good. It's grass fed. It's really good. Obviously, easy to cook. You throw it a pan, you make it. we did their ribs. Everett, like, requested them. And it's funny because, you know how long it takes.

But, like, and we were like, okay, it's probably going to be a few hours. And poor Courtney was, like, still out of the trigger. And we were smoking it. And it was like, I think it was like 10 o'clock at night. And then we all had a feast at, like, 10 o'clock at night. We're still eating, they're so good. But it was like, man, we should have started like. Katrina and I each crush a whole set ourselves.

So, like, we like that. We'll cook that. And she gets one. I get a whole, we each get a whole rack. I'll just, I'll just, I'll just eat that.

Is it because it's the heritage pork, right? That's why you're right. I just like it because it's, you know, there's so much meat on the bone. Because the pork is different. Yeah,

the crate free pork, yeah. Yeah, it tastes different. It is different. Everybody I know that, that likes to do ribs and I convinced to go try. And let me,

like, I've been doing those ribs now for, I don't know how many years since we've been working with them, but for a long time now. And there's been many of times, when I'm craving them and I've already cooked my butcher box and so I have to go to the grocery store

and buy some other ribs and I've tried all different brands and kinds and none of them are as good as the butcher box ones. And I don't know, I don't know if that's because it's the heritage pork. I don't know if it's the, they're the perfect size. I don't know.

I don't know why. All I know is that I've tested it many times. I wish I could find some of a replacement for when I am out of my butcher box ribs. But they are amazing. And everybody that I've got to do it are like, you're right, they taste so good.

I read a post today that was so wild. I knew some of the stuff, but this person listed all down, and it just blows me away. And so basically these are, they made a list of some of the most egregious, accepted, you know, settled science that we accepted

that we later realized was like killing us. So they did this over the years. And now there's way more than this, by the way. You can actually look up, like, you know, prescription drugs. They've been taken off the market. So you'll see a lot of them. But this person went through, and these were things that people did because everybody, doctor, scientists were like, yeah, that's good.

And then later we found out was horrible. So they made a list. So in 1890s, you were giving your kids the new by Bayer. Bayer made this, Justin. Of course. They made this new cough syrup that worked. It was heroin. They were giving kids

They were giving kids heroin This was cough medicine for kids In the 1900s you rubbed Calomel teething powder on your infant's gums This was to help them because they were teething Camomel No, no, calomel was the name of it It's a mercury compound

Okay, so you were giving your children What's called pink disease Swollen peeling hands on? Oh wow, the bear was actually even called heroin Yeah, they called heroin Not even disguising it, just oh wow Yeah. Let me tell you, it's effective. Your cough is gone when you take that.

Was this, okay, what is, what is, sorry to derail you a little bit. Just maybe, okay, in the movie Tombstone, she is taking an opia, but it's called something else. Is it Lotum? Lotum. So is Lotum a derivative from this or like. Lottenham? Lotum, you're right. It's something like that. And she was taking it for like her bad.

Yeah. Lottenham? Yeah. She got very addicted to it. Laudanum is, it's dark reddish alcohol, it's opium. Yeah. Such as opium.

Just. It's just a good old fashioned. Yeah, yeah. Well, isn't that what, I mean, so. So, I mean, heroin came from opium. Okay. And it was like, this is like the, right. That's the foundational compound.

Okay. It's organic. Anyway. Can you go into Bears history? No, wait. We will after. Please, please. It's still after.

Then in the 1910. you start cooking with Crisco, which was launched by a soap and candle company because cottonseed oil is modern and lard is what your mom used. Yeah. So this is, this was trans fats, right?

So we were using Crisco instead of lard. And they were advertising as such. Now they advertise anything without trans fats because it's horrible. In the 1920s, you drink something called Radithor. This was certified radioactive water on prescription. Radifor. Yeah.

What the hell? Yeah. Eben Bayer, buyers took 1,400 bottles for his vitality. Eventually his jaw was removed in pieces. Oh, my God. In a lead coffin. They had to bury him in lead in a lead coffin.

He was all radioactive. He was so radioactive. No superpowers. What? That reminds me of that those poor ladies that were working in that factory to to paint watches. Yeah. They paint it with this.

With radium. Yeah. And they would lick the tips of them. Uranium. Yeah. It was just radio. It was just radio. It glow.

Yeah. They would lick the tips of the, of the paint brushes. What watch company? You know? You can look it up, Doug. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, radioactive watch women. Yeah, they'd lick.

Because they'd lick and then they'd, you know, to give it a point to paint these watches. For some reason, I thought that that was like the envelopes or something like that. No, there they are right there. Oh, yeah. So. What was the watch company? They called them the radium girls. The radio.

They would, they would all getting cancer. Dude. Of course. It's freaking radioactive. There's a whole documentary. Oh, that'd be interesting. I'll watch that. It was widely used in the 20th century to make watch dials and military instrument glow in the dark. Notice they don't put any brand names? No.

Yeah, that's smart. They don't want that kind of bad publicity. I wonder what the... Anyway, so there's that. Here's another one. 1930s, a chemist dissolves a new sulfa drug and diethylene glysol, which is antifreeze. It kills 107 people, mostly children. Wow.

Then in 1940s, your doctor. is smoking camels in surgery. Because doctors were the ones that smoke camel cigarettes, apparently. They got to call down. They actually drop an ash over an open. Oh, shit. Whoops. Yeah.

You want a nice, steady hand, right? So, a camel in one. Yeah, accidentally ashen in the wound. In the 1950s, DDT is sprayed over your kitchen, your garden, and your children. DT, of course. The man who found it or founded it was given a Nobel Peace Prize. By the way, my grandfather. my grandfather or my great great grandfather told me stories of this.

He said when he was little in Sicily, they'd have all the kids line up outside the house and they drive a truck through and just blast everybody with DDT for lice. Yeah. So great. By old DDT commercials, you ever watch them? No.

People are eating at a picnic and they blow DDT over the food and the people keep eating to show how safe it is. I heard a lot of studies were tainted because they didn't factor in. DDT exposure for so many people back there. Yeah, dude. And like people getting cancer. Okay, so is that it stops in the 50s?

Did we stop making these mistakes? DDT, we stopped using much later. In fact, it was used for a long time. For a very, very long time. We haven't even got to spasus yet. Yeah, I know. I don't even think it's in the list. All right.

Cool. 1960s, this is terrible, by the way. Women are using something called thalidomide for morning sickness because it's remarkably safe, except more than 10,000 children are born with missing or shortened limbs. Oh, yeah, aye. Do you know what happened with that, by the way?

No. When you look at the molecular structure of this drug, thalidomide, if you do the mirror version of it, if it's flipped, then it produces these birth defects. Scientists thought it was the same. If it's facing this way, it's the same. It's not true. If it faces the other way, then your kid's going to be born without an arm or leg. So how did it end up being, like, how did that mess up?

Like, uh, because they saw the molecule got flipped, how the molecule get flipped? Because the way they made it, they just, it was the same process. They weren't trying to control for that. Oh, my God. So you had tens of thousands of children that were born with, with these, yeah, for this morning sickness drug that was hailed as a miracle. And that doctor said was a really good for you. In the 1970s, uh, the country puts down butter picks up margarine because the American Heart Association says margarine's better for you. This was official guidelines.

Marjorin. American Heart Association. Yeah. They got a few misses on the eye belt. I know. And so there you go. And there's more 1990s. Your father's prescribed oxy cotton.

And now we have this huge opiate issue as a result. In the 2000s, Vioxx for knee pain was pulled off in 2004 because tens of thousands of excessive heart attacks. Those are just some of the examples. Yeah. This is over-counter stuff. And by the way, I was just talking with the dude. I won't say his name, the dude that cut our hair today.

Yeah. So I was talking about his dad. His dad had horrible stroke. And so his dad's young. And we were talking about it. And yeah, I was asking him questions. And I was like, you know, just, I said, you know, forgive me for asking this. And you don't have to answer this.

But did your dad ever get the COVID vaccine? And he says, he wasn't sure. But he had, did you guys know he got the COVID vaccine? And he gave him the heart inflammation. He had to get hospitalized for it. The kid that cut our hair. And he says sometimes when he gets sick, it comes back and he has to go. Are we allowed to talk about this now?

No, trust the science. Yeah. Thanks, Doug. Thanks for bringing us. I know someone personally, I know someone personally who is late 30s who through the COVID vaccine had strokes, several. Yeah. And they linked it back to that. So anyway, just a little history of.

It was so wild about just the little short history lesson that you took us all down with that is the how there could be anybody on the other side that gets angry at somebody who's just questioning yeah just questioning it that's just like hey he's historic hey i don't know if i want to take many examples hey i think i'm going to roll the dice and try and go natural i'm like to to to shame them or to at all even if they're wrong even if they're wrong on it you you have the right to be skeptical or unsure about something. I remember my original stance. I was talking to my friend and it was really just,

I was trying to be like, you know, just logical about it. Like if you have full autonomy in terms of not being able to sue, I was like, I don't think that's good. I don't want to subscribe. I don't want to try. I don't want to go through that experiment process because I'm going to wait to see,

you know, like the reports that come in and like the injuries that, inevitably with that many millions of people, you're going to have injuries regardless. Like you can't claim you're not going to have any injuries. Yeah. So it just, it was totally illogical to me just from that standalone. You're going to have the government protecting it. It's like, please.

It is such a good job of fearmongering the side that if you didn't, you were killing people. Not only fearmongering, but coercing you out of it. Oh, yeah. You lose your job. You can't do this. You can't do this. You can't do that. It's so deceptive to say that you have it.

You probably have it, but it's, what do they call it? It's asymptomatic. That was the most deceptive marketing I've ever seen, ever. Yeah. Like, you probably have it, though. Did I tell you guys why you're a funny story? Now, in hindsight, it's even funnier. But at the time, I was like, ah, so during, in the middle of kind of COVID, like, you know, during that whole time or whatever,

Jessica and I went to the truckie house and met up with some of her friends that she knew from Cirque to Solace, so some old friends. So we had like three families meet us up there and us. And this was kind of when COVID was kind of going on. Now all of them were on this side, like the way over here side of that whole thing. It's like, you better get vaccinated. You better not like don't talk to grandma. Yeah, like that side, right? Obviously, Jessica and I are much more over here on this side.

But you guys remember my stance. My stance was not, never. My stance was, I'm going to wait. No, I'm going to wait for all of us. You were actually contemplating at one point. Yeah. I was going to, my whole thing was, look, I'm healthy. I'm just going to wait to see what happens.

I'm so glad I did, right? We were never anti. It was just like, whoa, let's see how this plays out. So anyway, so we get to the house. I never forget, we get to the house. Everybody does their due diligence or whatever. Everybody's hanging out. And the conversation, because remember this was like during COVID, right?

Conversation starts to come up about the whole thing. And they all immediately are like, whoa, they're way over here on this side. And, you know, Jessica and I, we have our opinions. I'm opinionated. Jessica is even more so. So she just starts, you know, sharing like, no, we're not going to do it. We're not doing it. We don't believe in it.

We think we're healthy, whatever. She's talking about all this stuff, right? Anyway, later that night, I started feeling sick. And I had COVID. They all left the next morning. You know they were driving home going, I knew it. Those two bragging about their dog vaccine. Of course he has COVID, you know?

It's going to be a long winter. So, you know, they felt so, like, justified. Do you know, how many years ago is that now? Six? Yeah, six years ago. Six? Yeah. Isn't that wild?

2020. Just six years ago. Those are the fastest years. I think we've lived. It also feels like it was, it feels like it was way longer than that ago, but it also feels like it was way sooner to me. It feels like it was just, I feel like, I mean, even the fact that you just said right now, is it okay to talk about it?

Six years ago. bro. I know. It's a long time ago. You know, it's already been a long time. And, like, we're way past it.

And, like, everybody knows it was a bunch of bullshit. Yeah. Like, of course we could talk about it. It was a little or six years ago. That's wild that it was that long ago. But it, man,

it, it lingered for, like, two full years. Like, it was the, I mean, it dominated our,

the conversations everywhere you went. It was. It was, in my opinion, the best example in modern history of, of mass paranoia and just the power of media. Terrible leadership.

And what we did is we put, don't get sick. This is what we did. We created this thing, which was no infections ever. And we made it our God. And we sacrificed everything towards us God of never getting sick. So you should just be in your house by yourself all the time. What about my friends? What about my family?

No infection. That gets you more sick. No infection. Turns out when you sacrifice. Unless you're relationships and sunlight are like two of the biggest keys to health. And we were told. Do you remember people getting arrested at the beach? Yes.

Surfing away from everybody. In the ocean. By himself. They'd wait for him to come in. They're like, hey, let's get close to you. What's the thing I've ever seen. Oh, the whole thing was crazy. The whole thing was crazy.

Or the restaurants. Are you very? Mask on. And then you walk in and then you're like, okay, is it right? Is it right? Now. Now it's free. It's COVID only hovered at five feet.

But what you were at. three feet. Or the plastic separator. That's just one sheet at the, you know, at the grocery store. Yeah. I can't get the spin on you from here. Did you ever see the videos of the kids in band? They had kids in band and they had masks with a hole in it so they put their mouth on their

instrument. Yeah. You ever seen that? I did. Ridiculous. Or these zip up like plastic containers there in playing. What age group do you think, when you think back to like COVID, the 9-11s, the riots, so much stuff that's happened in the last, you know, 20 years or like that or less, what, what age do you think would be,

like, the worst age to have, like, been through because of your, your lens that you see the world through. Like, I feel like one of the, one of the benefits that even we can have a conversation like this and we were having a conversation with this when it was going on was that when you're old enough and you've been around and you've seen enough things, like, you can draw back to like, oh, well, trust me, there's like, I mean, even, I remember talking to you guys when the, when, how crazy a lot of, like, the riots were and stuff like that. It's like, dude, we've had crazier rioting time.

But if you were young... LA riots back in the day. Oh, dude, way. Yeah, way, way, way crazier times. And so, but I mean, because of social media, because of this time, and if that, like, you can, it feels like... I think before, um, we didn't have a lot of media coverage and, like,

constant media coverage and every day in your face stuff that, like, I think you're able to kind of put it off, live your life, come back to like the shock of like, oh my God, this is happening, this event, you know, but it wasn't like you every day were just like being inundated with it. No, no, 100%. I think kids who grew up around my two older kids who were really impressionable during COVID, they suffered a lot during that period of time. And older people suffered a lot because older people, when you look at the data on, you know,

my grandpa. Imagine that being your last years of your life and not been able to see your family. Even if it's not, that you're an older person's health declines dramatically when they're lonely. Fact. Yep. And I saw this with my grandparents. My grandparents, and it wasn't like we stayed away from my grandparents for a year. I think it was like four months because of all the fear and stuff.

And so we would drop off groceries. And in a four-month period, they aged so much because they were just by themselves. Like the damage we did was just unbelievable. I know. Crazy. Yeah. How was your weekend? You took the boys to the Laguna Seiko.

Yeah. We went to Laguna Seca. Ethan is like a super fan now of like motorsports in general. But yeah, he's really into these like exotic cars and like I was trying to remember the name of this type of engine of this car. Like he just was fascinated by it. It's got like this, I don't know if it's almost like a triangular kind of turbine where like because of that it creates this compression of its own. Is that rotary? Yeah, rotary. Oh, good job. Doesn't Mazda have a rotary engine? So, yeah, the Mazda RX7 is the rotor is a rotary engine.

And I'd never heard of it before. But he was explaining it to me. It has the coolest sound. Like, it was very cool to see. But yeah, we saw a lot of sick cars. And it was great about it was like how open it was. Like it wasn't like, you know, they had their own little pit that like, you know, you had no access to or anything.

Everybody, like, because it's kind of like hobbyists and it's people that like own a lot of these cars and then they get to drive it on the track and it was a very like kind of relaxed environment so we're going up there they're starting it up they're telling us all about it we're walking he was sick did you not did you know up until that point like how much your boy was into it until like oh that's kind of cool

no I didn't like I kind like you're like oh shit he like knows his stuff about yeah like he obviously he you know in his own time has watched a lot of YouTube videos he's reads a lot about all the you know specs and like yeah he geeks out a lot on all these like

different types of like really fast cars. I'm like, cool. Like, I dig it. I love that. You were up at, oh, every day I was up there. What's it called? That's Monterey Car Week.

That's right. Yeah, yeah. And there's stuff going on all the time. Dude, I heard the coolest breakdown of what it's like to be like an F1 driver as far as like, what kind of athletes are they? First of all, you know that there's only like 20 something in the world to make it to that.

And he breaks it. down it was really cool. I'm obviously listened to all this stuff and pay attention and go down the rabbit holds and I've heard stuff talked about this before, like just what crazy athletes they are, but I've never heard somebody break it down like this. And he starts it off by talking about like how unaware

we all are. Because every other sport, like you can go pick up a basketball and play and shoot outside. Oh, we just have no ideas. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you can watch watch a pro athlete and like be like, wow. You can feel like, Because you know what you can't do. Exactly. He goes, but you are completely unaware.

You think because you get in a car and drive a car, it's nothing like. You do those things? Yeah, he's nothing like that. And so he's like the, the left, he goes, they are super athletes. He goes, their strength, their endurance, their, their, I, like, there's, they're like, fighter pilots. Yes. And on that extreme level, so he starts telling this story.

So he, so here's it. he's an amateur driver and he got this opportunity to to drive like a real F1 car. And before he even gets in it, he goes, like, they have to do all this testing with him to see if he's even capable to do his stuff. And so he goes, he's sitting in there at one point. And he's like, and then they tell me to, uh, break to, to press on the brake. And the guy sitting there with the computer locked up to it. And he's like, hard.

And he's telling him harder. And he goes, I, and he's describing like, I am stepping on this break with every ounce of as I. And he goes, okay, that'll do. and he's like, what do you mean the hell do? And he spins the computer around and he shows him that he's like at 82 pounds of pressure or whatever like that.

And he goes, well, yeah, he goes, you know, to give you the average F1 driver averages 120. Yeah. Right. Average. Not the race. And he goes,

he goes, I was pressing with everything I had just to register at 82. He gives an example of a normal F1 track. He goes, they'll do 17 breaking turns in a single lap and they'll do 50-something laps of that. So do the math. Man.

While also managing the G-forces, turning, change, like, and he's like that, like, just because it blew my mind. I had it. The first time I realized how crazy it was was I watched a video from inside the cockpit of a drag, of a drag racer. And then from there, I watched inside the cockpit of a rally racer of a formula. I don't even know how they know what's happening. Yeah, I don't know.

You're seeing a drag. It's predictive. There's no turns. There's no turns in drag racing. You ever seen what they do with their hands and what that thing looks like? No, just to keep it in the lane is insane because it pulls you so hard. Yeah, you're watching. Like, how would you even rally racing?

How does he know what's happening? Like, every turn is going to be up. Oh, those ones where they have the passenger, like, navigating for him, like, freak me out. They don't even know what's around the corner. He's talking about two, like, so with Formula One, the G forces and the speeds they're going. He goes, for example, he goes, they show a video of him getting like out of out of the car from doing only so many laps. And he takes his helmet off.

And he looks like he was just in a 20 round fight. I mean, just drenched in sweat. Like, you can see him, he can't get out. Like, he's so exhausted. He can't get out of the weight before they pull him out. He's like, when you're taking a turn, he goes, imagine you, you're going around turn. And he goes, the, the, the, the forces that are pushing on your neck is like you try, is like you with your neck turn with like seven watermelons on it and having to like maintain that.

He goes, just the weight of that. He goes, it's unbelievable the amount. He goes, I couldn't, just like you experienced in the jet, like you can't lift your leg off the ground because the G force is. Yeah. He goes, so when you're doing that, he goes, there's so much of that G force, your leg is pressed against the side of the, the, and he goes, you can't even pull it off. Dude, I got a question, Adam. Do they, did you get a chance to ask them about diet and nutrition? And the reason why I ask you is because how long are those races?

How long are they in the car for? Oh, they can be in there for hours. So nutrition has got to play a role in all of that. And I wonder if any of them use, like, ketone supplements. Like, I could see something like ketone IQ. Oh, for sharpness too. For mental sharpness. For energy.

You know, I bet you're right. I bet there is... Because if you could bon... First off, driving like that, you're going to bonk like if you're running or like in an... Well, you know, I bet they probably use very similar. Remember what Zach Bitter came on? And he talked how he runs. He's fat adaptive.

but then he runs on carbohydrates. I would have, I would, I wonder if that's a common thing. If they, if they try and become fat adapted and then they run on carbs for that, for that. What are you looking up, Doug? Yeah, Doug, look at Formula One driver diet. Okay. I just wanted some facts I was getting. The routinely experienced between 5 to 6.5 Gs during extreme breaking, which is extremely interesting.

That's like a lot of Gs. That's like straight fighter jet. And then, uh, there are 90 to two out minutes to two hours. Imagine experiencing that many Gs 15, 20 times in a single lap for hours at a time, while navigating around other cars, while taking turns where you have about a half an inch to less between the tire and the wall. Yeah, they're this close to the wall. It's wild. And they have to for that line.

Yeah, he's like, we do a terrible job. And he goes, and then the people that specter or that the, that, that, um, that, um, that, um, commentate it. He goes, our other F1 drivers. So when they talk, they talk like it's no big deal. But the average people have no idea the feeling and the complexity of the stuff that they're conversing about. And he did such a good breakdown of explaining that relative to all other sport examples. Everything else, you can kind of get out there and kind of do and go, wow.

I can get behind a wakeboarding boat and I can ride for a little bit and go and then see the pros and go like, whoa. You just have no idea. But that you're just, there's nothing. something like it that you can you can draw an example i saw you guys drink you guys are doing the ketone iq before podcast now yeah i love doing that yeah it makes a difference oh yeah i could feel the difference and i could just feel too it's just another way that i can get that memory recall and it's just like it's it's my post caffeine drink yes to keep me going through the rest of the day and so what i notice the same you don't get a stimulus it's not a stimulant no that's what someone

listening it's not a stimulus you just feel sharper so if for someone that would use it this is how i like to use it for what we do and how I would do this, even if I had like a regular eight-hour job. And if you are a coffee and a caffeine drinker early, is you always tend to have this, you know, after your coffee's worn off, two or three hours later, this kind of, where you come down. And it's probably somewhere between noon and three for the average person. And then most people have still a few more hours. And so that's right where I take the ketone IQ. And so for me, it like it's then the rest of the podcasting day or whatever kind of work that we're doing whether we're shooting or doing other stuff it keeps that that mental sharpness keeps you up there without

the weird energy up and down crashing that I get from caffeine it's to me it's the perfect and I know they make ones with caffeine so if you like to if you like both but that's how I use it I like the non-cafine ones I like to drag my caffeine yeah after exactly me too I like to have my caffeine drinks and then when that's when I'm done with that because I shut that down pretty early because I can't do past noon or I'll mess up my sleep. Then when that wears off two or three hours later or whatever, then I have the ketone IQ and then that's like keeps me for the rest of the day. You know what's going getting kind of shared all over right now? Is this new study on red light and how it affects the body? Really? Yeah. So I know, I mean, I know, you know, we're

not supposed to talk about our partner juve right now. It's not scheduled. But I just, I have to talk about this because it's flying everywhere. And it's actually one of the craziest things I've ever seen. So they compared, I'm going to read this to you. So they compared red light therapy to a group without red light. Both of them, similar diet, both of them Mediterranean diet. Do you know what they found between the two, the difference? The group that used the red light, everything else was the same. The group that used the red light lost more fat.

Oh, monoconial health. I mean, yeah, but it's actually, by the way, their lipids improved better than the other group. inflammatory markers are better than the other group. Check this out. So waist circumference in particular. The group that, the group without red light therapy lost six centimeters around their waist. You want to know how much the group with red light therapy lost?

15. Whoa. More than double. Wow. From red light. So, wait, okay, would you. Just from, how would you explain to a five-year-old what mitochondrial health is?

Oh, God. For a five-year-old? Yeah, yeah. Like it's the brain. of the cell and so like how it's the engine or the engine okay so that so there you go so that's how you say so basically all of your cells have an engine that help them function yeah the so remember the engine the better the cell better of cell so there you go so not so of course duh that if if you works better if all your cells are used to running on a you know v6 and now

you've supercharged it or built it to a v8 or a v12 like it's just going to you're you're going to perform better. On all aspects, I would imagine strength performance would be better. Endurance would be better. Stamina would be better. Fat loss would be better. There's other things. It shows it builds muscle too. Right. It's the wildest. It's the wildest thing because you're sitting in front of light. Yeah. That's it. You're literally just sitting in front of light. Do this on a regular basis. I want a bed. I want a bed. You know at the gym I go to, they just opened a recovery room. And they have these, they look like saunas, but they're not. And they're just red light. So you sit in

there and you're surrounded by red light. Yeah, I want to lay in a bed of them. Either that or like the whole shower thing I've always talked about where I've like turned my whole kind of shower area into it because I'm in there twice a day so I could just blast it like that. Yeah. I want to find a way to do it like that would be ideal because all the benefits of that, dude.

So I saw something that scientists just came out with that it was like a hydrojole like a skin that actually is a healing. So you put it on wounds and it's apparently it. heals 90% more effectively. Wow. Which is pretty wild. So if it has like skin missing or a burn, just put it on?

You put it on. And in the hydro gel, like acts as just like this cooling, like a healing agent. Oh, wow. Is it a new technology? Yeah. Let me,

yeah, I want to see what Doug pulls up here. Well, another guy. Well, that's, like commercial stuff. Look up the scientific breakthrough.

Yeah. Moist rich environment. Yeah. Let me see if I get, yeah, You can go hydrogill research on burns. Let's try that. I bet we'll find something like that.

Let's see what that looks like. You know, if this hosting and podcasting doesn't work, I think you could totally do the Google. Oh, I'll be the over there. This is the Googler. The Googler. I thought that was a Batman. Maybe that'll be the evolution.

Maybe that'll be the evolution of like as our young team comes up, you eventually get out of this chair. I'll just just sell me. I'll write on the screen when I get mad. It's like, say this. This is what you need to say. Yeah. Interesting. Oh, nanozymes. Okay. Okay. All right. All right, Justin. Yeah. I thought it was cool.

Yeah, very interesting. That is interesting. I have some, I had some thoughts on cold immersion therapy or like ice bath. Oh, you were mentioning that off off air. Yeah. So here's it. You know, have you seen, have you watched the bell curve of it? I guess. The rise and fall. Yeah, yeah. It was like this. Everybody do it. Nobody was doing. It's been around forever. So it's like this. Right. And then all of a sudden, It was like this huge, this is the greatest thing ever. Companies are popping up everywhere. It's amazing, amazing. And then now you have the, this is terrible for building muscle. It's a wasted time.

It's overrated. So it's like a bell curve. No. So one thing I hate about fitness is, or should I say fitness media, is that everything falls under the category of loose fat, build muscle. If it doesn't do that or, God forbid, it reduces some of that, even though it may produce all these other benefits. And even though, if you understand it.

exercise science, there are ways to implement some of these tools to maximize other things. Who cares because the study shows that it reduces hypertrophy. Okay, so here's the problem. So here's where this started. Studies were done on people who strength train and then who did cold water immersion versus those that didn't. Here's what the study showed. People who did cold water immersion post-workout built less muscle. Okay, this is true. One of the reasons why this, this happens, is it reduces the inflammatory pathways and kind of the cell signaling. That tells the body to build muscle. So part of the inflammation you get afterwards is telling your body to repair and build muscle.

So when you blunt that, you're probably going to build less muscle. But I was working out today and I was thinking to myself, what about strength? What about strength? Now, muscle size contributes to strength, but a lot of strength has to do with your central nervous system and just how your strength. your strength organizes itself and how well you fire in order to lift something. Does it have a negative effect on strength? So I looked up with them studies. And the effect on strength is far smaller than the one on hypertrophy.

And just to be clear, the effect on hypertrophy is also small. So it's not a huge effect, by the way, on hypertrophy. It's small. The effect on strength is either smaller to none. So what that means is using cold water therapy might make you build imperceptible to you. but if we did a study, we might see less muscle. But it probably doesn't negatively affect strength or it doesn't affect strength. So I'm thinking to myself, this could be a valuable tool for athletes.

Because one of the things you have to balance when you're an athlete. So much volume repetition you've got to get through. Yeah, like a lot of, like when you go lift weights to build muscle, you stimulate, you leave. But when you're an athlete, a lot of your practice is getting good at your skills. Yeah. Getting good at the technique, getting good at how to hit, how to catch, how to run, how to jump, how to twist. You know, even if you're a strength athlete, how to do a power clean, how to do a squat, how to do a deadlift, a bench press. A lot of that is the skill of the lift.

And what prevents you from constantly practicing that skill is that you can't, you overtrain. Your body can't heal. Right. You know, you can't do football practice 12 hours a day because you would just die. So what's limiting you is the ability to adapt. or recover. So your theory with that then is that you get to maintain all those like points of practice. And so you're actually able to kind of keep skill training,

but not necessarily, you know, increase the size of your muscle. Well, you can do more. You know that, you know that this theory that you're talking about right now is not original by any means. Well, they've been using it for a long time. This is why during this whole bell curve, pro athletes have never skipped a beat on how they use. They don't listen to any of these. Cryotherapy, ice paths, and ice. Yeah.

It's always been consistent. And they still, you can watch an NBA game and never once if we broke in stride with a player coming off the court to sit down. And instantly, they're putting ice on his knees right away. And it's because they don't give a shit if it helps with his bench press or his leg press or squat or they don't care if it adds or muscle. It's like he's got to perform. Yeah, exactly.

They're preserving the body. They've got to perform. They got to perform at a high level. had they do it multiple times, sometimes in a day. It's not just that. When you look at the studies that are looking at ice therapy versus non-ice therapy, what they didn't do is increase the volume on the ice therapy group because they can handle more volume. Okay?

So if I take two groups and I'm comparing them and I do ice therapy or cold water immersion, I can now add more training stress and volume. There's your original theory. That's what I'm trying. Or great point is that you're making the case that it's not. This is kind of like how we talk about the studies that are around volume and stuff. Yes. Is that it's like they say volume is the same, but the truth is if you split up your workouts, you're doing more volume because you're stronger.

Exactly. That's fatigue. And so in a in a in the real world, the study isn't a isn't a great one to use because it doesn't really apply because you're going to get way more reps in and way more practice in which. That's right. Better at that skill. So let's just say, let me just use strength sport. let's say you want to get a PR in your deadlift. And right now, when you train with your deadlifts,

twice a week is about as much as you can do, maybe a heavy day and a light day, okay? And that's about as much as you can do, and you do your auxiliary work. But you find if you do more than that, you tend to break down and get hurt and you just kind of overtrained. Well, what if cold water immersion

allows you to deadlift three days a week? You get a smaller build muscle signal, but I can deadlift into a day a week. I know this is anecdotal, but I will tell you from experience, when I was competing, I was doing all the things, recovery. Cryotherapy, I was getting massages

every other night or every night from Katrina. The amount that I could put a put towards my squats and deadlifts, that's exactly what I am now. Two times a week, one time being intense is about all my body can handle because I'm constantly in this kind of recovery state, but I'm not doing any of those things. I'm not doing all the things to facilitate that.

So I absolutely cannot handle nowhere near the volume that I was doing. And of course, those were my peak strength times. And so the question is, why would you want to increase your volume so you could practice more? So it could practice the lifts more. So I could practice my sport more. So if you just want to build muscle, okay, then you don't necessarily need it. There may be some additional value in other areas. Maybe use it separately from your workouts or whatever.

Fine. Right. But if you gain value from practicing your lifts or your skills more often, which pretty much everybody would gain value from that, cold water immersion would allow you to do those things. So now instead of squatting twice a week, if I want to get a PR, I can squat three days a week. And because, why? Because I do cold water immersion. Oh, but you're building less muscle. Yeah, but I'm squatting an extra day a week.

I think that pretty much negates the fact that I'm losing. I'll add to this theory. And it was Dr. Brink who got me to do this. this first. And I don't know if any of you guys have experimented with this. Oh, you go before? Before you do cryotherapy or do an ice bath pre-workout? Yeah, that's crazy. Those are some of the best workouts I've ever had. I mean, that, like, so everybody traditionally focused you are, the more, yeah, you can recruit. Dude, traditionally everybody is, uses them as a post-workout thing, to bring down inflammation and everything like that. But, or you might see some people that use it first thing

in the morning when they wake up to try and start their day or without that, which I think is incredibly beneficial because I've done that. But try using it, you know, 10, 15 minutes before you go into a workout and watch your workout. And then you're fatigue in the workout is way less time. But I'll tell you, I'll give you an example, right? So, you know, because I've been doing jujitsu here and there. And it's totally different from lifting weights or whatever. And the truth is, if I want to get good at jujitsu faster, the best thing I could do

is do more jujitsu. Yeah. But the limiting factor is my body. I can't do it every single day because it hurts and my body breaks down and I need rest, right? But if I do cold water immersion afterwards, I can do more than I would be able to had I not done cold water immersion.

Therefore, my jiu-jitsu skills will improve that much faster. And so I don't think we should throw out cold water immersion as this tool. I just think we got to use it in the right way. Use in the right way cold water immersion could be remarkable. If I was training an athlete, here's a deal. Every coach knows this. The more you can train your athletes, the more they can practice, the better they'll get faster.

But you have to balance it with recovery. You're always balancing it with recovery. And so it's like, okay, I got to give my kids or my athletes or whatever more rest because we're just pushing it too hard. But what if I can increase the volume that they can handle through a simple thing like, here, jump in this cold bucket full of ice and water after our workout. Now we can do an additional workout. There's also the other thing that these studies aren't measuring either, that we talk. talk a lot about is the behavioral benefits of these things, too.

The mental benefits of this. The mental benefits of committing to something that is hard. By the way, I don't care how many days in a row you do it, it's hard every time. It's hard. Nobody wants to try. Every time I was doing it. Everybody jumped on the bandwagon of trying to shit on it. I went on a streak for a really long time of being super consistent with it.

And I tell you what, not one day got easier. Like to get in. Once I got in, the breathing technique got easier. Like I learned how to call my, which is also, also really beneficial for you. Okay. to learn how to calm your central nervous system down like that, focus on your breathing. While under stress.

Right. So super beneficial too. That got better, but it was hard to get in every single time. There's got to be some benefits to consistently doing hard things that you don't want to do that have carryover to other aspects of your life. It just annoys me because the, yeah, because we tease it out.

Fat loss or millie muscle. Yeah. And I said, well, how are you using it? What are you using it for? Don't throw it out because there's some value for a lot of people listening right now. If you're one of those people that is trying to get better at something and you're limited by your recovery, this could allow you to train more and to practice more often, thus making you better faster. And so I think it's this really cheap, cool tool that people shills should still use in the right context.

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dot CO slash mind pump. Use code Mind Pump 3.5 and get 35% off your first month's subscription. Back to the show. Our first caller is Chris from Connecticut. How are you doing, Chris? Hey, guys, what's going on? What's going on, man? Good, man.

How can we help you? So, let me just get right into it, and I'll read my email. A little nervous. Can't believe I'm actually seeing you guys. I listen every day. It's kind of crazy. Welcome to the party. Oh, man, this is awesome.

All right, so 53 years old, married, father of two daughters, 21 and 19. I was an athlete growing up, played multiple sports, hockey until I was 26. Once I got married, had kids, stopped training, spent the next 15 years heavily involved coaching both my daughters through softball. My oldest played Division III. My youngest right now is playing Division I. Before realizing that my oldest bodybuilding was her passion. So she left school, came home and started training and participating in shows, where she actually placed in a couple of shows. Now, my younger daughter is still playing. in Division I softball. So I don't regret any of the time that I spent with them and doing that,

but I did stop taking care of myself during that process. So since then, I've kind of been on a roller coaster. I did a medical weight loss diet in 2007, which got me down to like 40 pounds, but it came back. Then around 2010, 2011, started caring from my dad, who was dying from cancer and I was dealing with a really difficult boss, which put me under tremendous stress. I dropped to 140 pounds. People thought I was sick. And then that weight came back to once life got more comfortable, I put that weight back on. 2015, I got back up to probably close to 200 pounds. So dealing with a bad back, which I did from remodeling my house, an injury in 2000, which I tore my meniscus twice, so I had knee surgery twice for that, which took me again away from training.

And then a couple years ago, I thought I finally got it right. I worked with a trainer, dialed in my diet. After about eight months, I got down to my lowest body fat ever. I was about 15%. I got down to 167 pounds. I gained three pounds of muscle. I lost 24 pounds of fat. And then I developed bicept tendon. So I tore my bicep tendon, ruptured it. I just had it repaired. in May. So since then, I've been off my diet, barely training. I do legs probably four times a week, and even that's like been sliding off. I walk about three miles a day, which is a pretty hilly route, so I kind of get my heart rate up and a little bit of sweat when I'm doing that. But I feel myself just sliding back into my old patterns. So my wife's listened to you guys for years,

and she finally got on me and said, you know, you need to do this. So I said, yeah, I hear myself, in your show almost every day. Every day I listen and I hear something that resonates with me in my life. So my question then is, you know, how do I get back on track after a setback like this? I'm 53 with back issue, knee issue, and now, you know, the torn bicep that's still healing right now instead of just ending up in another cycle. Like I said, I keep going up and down for the last 15, 20 years. I want to, and I want to white knuckle it, right? hear you guys saying that all the time. I feel like, you know, I don't want to do that and just lose that fat and get in shape and then throws something else comes along and it

throws me right back to where I was. So I want to do something that I can sustain, give me a good approach and maintain where I want to be. Yeah. Thanks for everything you guys do. You guys, you guys are awesome. Chris, how is your current like work schedule right now? Because like building something with consistency, you want to make sure we keep in mind like what what work, sleep, all that stuff looks like right now. Yeah, yeah. So I work, you know, some days it's eight, some days of 10, 12 hours. I work from home.

I manage a team of about 10 people all over the world, a technology company, somewhat sedentary. But my company's huge on, you know, staying healthy. So we all try to like get out in the afternoon, take a walk, step away from the job and do that. Good, good, good. Yeah. So, I mean, the prescription or what I should, what I'll recommend is, is pretty simple and easy. I think I know exactly what would be a good idea for you.

Obviously, we're going to start slow. The challenge is the cycling that you keep mentioning. And I'm going to just point to the root of that if that's okay. Yeah, absolutely. You're an athlete for 26 years. And so it's really hard to change that mentality. So what probably happens is you start working out. The athlete comes out and you get competitive and you just go too hard.

And then you get hurt and you're set back and you've got to rehab and get better. and then, oh, I'm feeling good again, and then you go too hard again. And so we got to train appropriately. We got to get out of that mindset. There's nothing wrong with the mindset of wanting to improve and compete, but you're in the 26-year-old headspace

every time you get into it. And, you know, when you were 26, you were 26, and you had a background of consistent activity and sports. Whereas right now, you're older, but also you don't have that consistent, like I've been playing sports now, for a while. You took a long time off to raise your daughters and get them, you know, to the places

they are. So what your workout's going to look like is probably like a MAPS 15 performance. It's got a good athletic component to it. It's not going to feel like a lot, but I think that'll be appropriate for you. And you're going to do that for a while. You're going to do that for a long time. When you start to feel really good and stable and strong, I love for you going out and finding something recreationally that you can do with with other people that you enjoy, but do it for the fun of it and try to train and do that with men your age. Okay. Okay.

If you start going out and getting competitive and playing against the 20-year-olds, this is where you'll start to get, you'll go a little too far. But you go with a bunch of 50-something-year-olds, play pickleball or something like that. I love that for a guy like you because there's that component of fun and that competitive component that I think is fine. but I do think you're going to need to be on like Math 15 performance style workouts for a while before we do something like that.

One of my favorite parts about training athletes is you know, athletes have that competitive drive that I like. I just got to get you to reframe like what working out nutrition and how to use your competitiveness. In other words, don't compete in your workouts. Your workouts are designed to take care of your body. If you compete somewhere, compete in your consistency around nutrition. compete with how many days you string together of good sleep.

Compete on those types of things. So use that competitive side to you of like discipline and like I can do this every day. But it's, but take that out away from the workout. Like don't go in the workout going like, I'm going to see if I can get 10 more of these or I'm going to throw, you know what I'm saying? Get that out of that. I'm here. When you go to work out, you know, maybe you got to change the music you listen to or just a mindset you come in with. But when you come in, it's more like I'm practicing these movements.

I want to feel good through these movements. I should feel good when I walk out. It's not go, go crush it. Like get, get that, get that athletic mindset out of your workout when you lift weights and train to be more recuperative, which is a hard transition. But once that clicks,

and then take the competitive side to the other shit, to my diet, like being dialed on that and being consistent and competitive with how many days in a row can you eat perfect and like be. So just switch that. And if you can do that, If you can do that, you will really unlock this great, healthy balance of taking care of yourself. Yeah.

Take down all those no pain, no gain posters in your garage. Yeah, it's just a lot harder than a lot of people think. You know, if it's been an athlete and it's served you well, it's helped you on the field or it's, you know, you've seen what it does for performance. Right. However, you know, what's going to serve you going on forward here is to be able to really. figure that out like how does this workout actually benefit uh my overall energy in the way that i feel i should feel better i should feel more energized after each workout and that's where i stop and so the the real workout for you is to learn how to taper that off and stop and then wait save that for the

next day then the next day then the next day and it's it's something that i battle it all the time so i'm like you know i hear all these words and i'm agreeing with them completely but i i i do do you know how hard that is, and it's definitely going to be so much better for you on the other side of that because you're going to feel good, but strong and also very much more capable to do a lot of these athletic moves that you, you know, did in the past. And Chris, I think, you know, after you follow Mass 15 performance and you finish it, I think it'd be a good idea to go, if you liked your trainer, sound like they did a good job, be a good idea to work with a trainer once a week or so to kind of, you know, work with you for the next six

months or so. I think that'd be a good idea. I don't know. I tore my bice tendon with them. So I don't know. Well, let me ask you this. Were they pushing you? I went super hard, just like you said.

Like, I don't realize it until you just said that. So I got locked into like, you know, they were like, hey, let's do this six weeks challenge. And I was probably the second oldest guy in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. I was like the second workouts in it. Yeah. Literally, literally look at, like I just told you, like your workouts no longer.

Like, I don't like, I know ever we talk about PRs. You've been, you've been working out and exercise for such a long time. I don't need you hitting PRs. and squats every couple months. Like just you go in, you live weights, you practice lifting weights. You've got good muscle memory from somebody who's probably been lifting weights most of their life.

Trust me, the muscle will come right back. If you put it into dieting, you're going to have the physique you want. You work on the Maps 15. It's going to work on the multi-directional movements and unilateral work. You'll start feeling great again. You'll feel really good.

That's the problem I'm worried about, right? Like my back and my knees, like I don't want to mess that up. And like, I know what I can get to. And like I said, I was down that like a few months ago, I looked the best I've ever looked in my life and I felt the best I ever felt in my life. And then I just reversed it. I have this issue with food. It's like a big joke in my house and like I'll go off the diet and stop tracking. And then

I just put 10 pounds back on, 15 pounds back on. So. Yeah. Hit your protein targets. Stick to whole natural foods. Follow MAPS 15 performance. And after you do that, I think MAPS 15 symmetry would be another good program for you. Yeah. And that right there is going to give you a good five to six. months. Okay. Have you ever, we have,

we have some cool that I think he would do really good with too. I don't know if you've ever heard us talk about our concierge program, but you'd be a great candidate for that. Just a check in. Just a once a month check in. That would be great because I need a, I feel like I need a coach. Like I need that type of accountability.

Yeah. Yeah. I was able to do it for my daughters when I was training them and getting them locked in and their teams. But for myself, if I don't have that, I will definitely start to, I think you'd be a great.

You're a great candidate for that. So we're going to have somebody call you. They'll set that up with you. And I think that's perfect for someone like you, just to check in with you on a monthly basis. Make sure you got a plan. You execute the plan. They'll check in with you.

And they'll keep you paced right as far as keep you. You can alter it and modify it. Yeah, I don't want to hurt my back again. Like, I deal with that. I got up my knee. Like, I just want to make sure movements are right. Yeah. They'll also customize your workouts for you too.

So like, yeah, we'll send over a program. for you right now, but they're going to customize it to make it for you. And so that communication, that you just let them know how things are going, how you feel them, they'll change, modify what they need to. And then I think you're going to crush, dude. We'll take care of you. Okay. Yeah.

Cool. All right. That'll be awesome. Thanks, Chris. All right, Chris. Thanks, man. Thanks, guys. All right, brother.

Great talk, dude. Keep it up, bro. That, so I've said this before on the show. Some of the hardest clients I ever trained were ex-athletes. And it wasn't because they couldn't move well. It wasn't because they couldn't build muscle Because they can actually do that better than most clients It was the mentality

It was like we would do an appropriate workout And they'd look at me like What are we doing? I'm wasting my time Because they know Their mindset is set on when they were competing It's like this is a total mindset shift It was very difficult Once you get them to switch though, it's amazing

Yeah I mean that that's why I brought up what I did Because no you're right It's hard to take the athlete completely out So I just have to get them to be competitive somewhere else. Like I'm all cool. Like I love the competitive side. So let me lean into that instead of like trying to take it away from you completely. Just stop being competitive with your workouts.

Yeah. Your workouts are recuperative. Your workouts are to take care of you. Your workouts are to take care of you. Your workouts are to like that. You walk out of this gym and I want you to feel interchops. That's your therapy. Your sanctuary.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get competitive on all the other aspects. And so let's go. And that will serve him way, way more. Our next caller is Kyle from Delaware.

Kyle, what's up, dude? What up? What up? What are you guys doing? How are you doing, man? Appreciate you having me on. Not too bad. Been so surreal just seeing this year.

Been listening since, I think it was like episode 50 or something like that. So you guys really come along with me. Yeah. You've been with us for a long time. Yeah. I think we need to do one of those Justin's seven-week shreds again. Let's get that going. Yeah.

All right. Let's go. Very cool. Well, I'll kind of get into it. The whole question is me and my wife, we're expecting our first baby here in January. Congratulations. Thank you so much.

I've had a little bit of a knee issue going on for about two years now, and the goal really is to be an active dad, being able to run around and all the fun stuff that young dads get to do. So that's kind of the process of my new goal, I guess, to kind of figure all this out. I'm 30 years old, sitting around 270 right now. I'm not sure what my body fat is at. I was training, I was using anabolic, put on, I mean, shot on ininabolic,

I put on so much muscle from that program. It's actually ridiculous, but I was doing like a charity alumni game for basketball for my school. And after the game, it swelled up and kind of has been like, took about a week or so to go down. I went ahead and I didn't see a doctor for quite some time. Just thought it was just normal swelling from after the game. Went ahead and went back into the gym.

Was able to kind of squat a little bit but still had some pain. Took another couple days off. Ended up putting just a knee brace on it with some icy hot. I was able to kind of push through it a little bit. Kind of worked for a week. Then again, had some more swelling, took some more time off. And then kind of really started falling off, just kind of discouraged. Seeing a physical therapist, he noticed that there was maybe some under quad development on that side.

So I kind of worked with that. I tried, you know, doing some leg extensions just to isometric it out. But I was just, the leg was really shaky. I didn't have much connection to my quad anymore. So still started working on that. I got like a pop on my hip too. so I figured maybe there's some hip mobility stuff going on. But started working on that, like the mobility side of things.

And it got a little bit better, but it never, like, really went away. Fast forward some more months go by. The knee swelling's not really that bad. It kind of went down. But then we're on a hike in West Virginia, and it swells up, like, terrible. And my fiance kind of convinced me then to go see a doctor. So when we get back, I kind of get that scheduled. They do an x-ray, an MRI, take out like three tubes of fluid.

And she didn't notice anything with the MRI. She said she maybe had some old ACL MCL injuries. But that was the cause. She noticed that there was a decent bit of arthritis, though. My dad has had both his knees replaced from kind of the similar things. He used to work construction, so just being on his knees and using them a lot. So she didn't really have much for me. She said I'm 30.

It's either she gave me a cortisone, I believe. And that kind of helped. But again, never, I couldn't still get back to like jogging. Like it just was too much pain. I have little nieces and nephews couldn't really run around with them much. So kind of just fast forward to today, it's still kind of there. Anytime I do like, especially I noticed like I went golfing the other week after I rode in and it swelled up again on me. and so I had to take a whole week off.

The whole process, too, I'm kind of not, as Adam, like, said, kind of ate like an asshole and wasn't training as much as I should. Probably put on, like, I was maybe 220, 210 at the time. Now I'm kind of like 260, 270. So I'm sure the weight has something to do with it. But, yeah, just trying to get back to kind of being able to jog around and squat. I miss squatting. Yeah, good.

Good. Congratulations all the baby, by the way. I appreciate it. So I'm glad you got imaging. So it rules out any current injury. It sounds like classic movement pattern issue. Okay. So the knee joint can move in an optimal way.

It can also move in a suboptimal way. And depending on how bad your movement is, and this could be due to imbalance in weakness in the quad. It could be in the hip. It could be in the ankle. Might be the quad because that's what the PT noticed. But it could be also connected, like I said, to a couple of other things.

But depending on how bad your movement pattern is for the joint of the knee, the more movement you do with it, the worse it's going to feel. So like the hiking made it feel bad, the basketball game made it feel bad. Golf. And then you mentioned your weight. And if you gained a significant amount of weight, if you're pressurizing the hinges at 220, you've now amplified that dramatically at, let's say, 260 or 270. Okay.

Right. The recommendation is pretty straightforward. And your babies do when in January? January, yeah. So I'm going to give you two programs. I never do that, but I like you because you can listen to one. Map symmetry is your program. Okay.

That's the program you need to follow. And I want you to skip the last phase. Okay. So it's all unilateral. That's going to help quite a bit. After you're done with that, I'm going to give you Maps 15 performance or symmetry, one of the two. I'll see what Justin thinks because that'll be the program you do when you have your baby. Because you're going to be sleeping crap.

You're going to be any, you need to be. there for a wife. And so it's just far less volume. It's far more appropriate. And in the meantime, you know what we talk about when it comes to diet, hit your protein, stick to the whole natural foods. If you combine that together, you're going to do great. Yeah. I kind of implemented that a little bit. Just I think you had an episode on a couple weeks ago about just cutting that out. So I caught that down five pounds in the four weeks, just kind of not touching much, just kind of hitting it. And again, it's, it used to be a lot of body, body imaging. that would like kind of drive my goals and now it's it's not really that anymore.

I did try. I think symmetry has like a, a pistol squat. I wasn't able to get, is there like modifications or something? Just modifications. Anything, anything in there that doesn't feel right,

don't do it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just don't do it for now because you do have some stuff going on with your knee. Yeah. Yeah. And I,

you know, in the beginning of symmetry, which is great too, because you'll get into these split stance positions and to really kind of reinforce the. recruitment part of that and try to, you know, gain that strength stability there, especially the quad and, you know, in the hips, you know, take your time. Like, really, it's about, like, slowing down quite a bit and feeling your way through a lot of these things. So you can get that

kind of security and it gets to track a lot better, get that knee hinge to really be, like, secure and on that fluid movement kind of pattern. You're actually a, you're actually a case where you would find me actually using a machine quite a bit, a leg, press would do a single leg leg press with you would be a good movement. So when you're, single leg leg extension. Yeah. Yeah.

So this is an example. I know we talk so much about free weights and how much free weights are better. But here's an example where you're currently at right now where, you know, single leg machine stuff is, is okay until we start to one, lean out a little bit, get some stability and strength in there and support and balance out. And then the other thing I would caution you is like just caution you of like, you know, you start feeling good. you get a little bit of momentum. Don't get too hyped up.

Yeah, don't get all excited and go for a job, okay, and go do that. Just keep progressing and stick with the programming because that's where we could go set yourself back is going out and doing something like that when we're not ready. Yeah, if we can really like install new movement patterns for you, you're going to, you're going to thrive. You're going to get to a place where you haven't been before where you're actually going to be really strong and your movement's going to be sick. So without pain. And that's what we want, right?

Right. So make sure you really take your time with us. Kyle, did you say what do you do for work? Are you on your feet? You sit? What do you go? What do you do? Yeah.

So I used to be doing lawn care and I was long care. I used to work construction. So I used to be moving around a lot. Then I got an office job. Oh, wow. And so now I sell fireplaces now. So I'm kind of just sitting around. I get to go on some job sites.

But it's even with my wife, we just don't. We both work on offices. So we've been trying to, you know, practice walking more. It's difficult. I think I was averaging like 2,000 steps. for quite some time, so kind of making a more effort to at least hit 5,000 or, you know. That's a good target. Yeah, I like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, is like a movement pattern? Is that something that can change? Because before this game, like, I mean, I was squatting. I had like 380. He was able to put down. I'm talking pain free.

Yeah. Felt powerful. Is that, was I overcompensating in some area? So here's, yeah, but here's what might have happened, okay? because movement pattern issues can develop post-injury. So something you did in that game, aggravated your knee. I'm diverted. And then after that, now you're moving in a particular way.

Well, also keep in mind this, too, when you're squatting, you're moving in one plane. And so you may be, you could have been really strong in one plane, incredibly weak, laterally. I mean, this example of me, this is why I kept getting hurt doing sports and shit. Like, I'm strong, deadlifting, and squatting all day long because I've been consistently doing that and getting so strong in that way. But it asked me to cut in basketball, and I blow my knees out right now, too, because I haven't been training my body that way.

And, you know, you're 30 now. You're not 18 anymore. You used to probably be able to squat a bunch of weight and then not play basketball for a while. And get out there and play basketball, no problem, and be fine. But, you know, welcome to getting older and only getting strong in one playing. This is what happens.

And so we've got to take care of yourself. And so that point, that's why I was bringing up the split stance. I'd be challenging you as a trainer, you know, rotationally or laterally just to maintain position while you're, you know, adjusting to these forces because, you know, that might be part of the problem is just like, you know, you're not introducing these types of planes of motion your everyday life. And then you're just going like zero to 100. So, you know, like just, you know, give yourself a little, you know, a slack with that. Like,

that's something that, you know, we need to bring a little attention to. Have you seen the video where a great movement to get to would be like, have you ever seen the video, Justin, doing the lateral sled drag before? I mean, I've watched everything. Yeah, if you go on to mind pump TV and look up the lateral set sled drag that Justin does, and I would get to a place where I start you with like no weight, like literally super light,

just you're just walking the sled empty. Yeah. And then slowly progress that. Teach these movements back, you know? Like think about the last time you've really like been intentional with that stuff. So you have to like really progress. Just like you're progressing weights.

Okay. Yeah. So do I, I think I have symmetry and when I follow that, am I kind of chasing, like, pushing my knee into positions that I know it should be getting into, even though it's painful? Or am I kind of like finding the areas it's not painful? How am I? Play within the- Find the line. Yeah. So play within the boundaries. Back off a little bit. Yeah. Okay. You challenge the boundaries a little bit, but don't go beyond them. Because it'll get better. Yeah. And then- progressively. And then copy that form and that range of motion with your strong leg. Don't do better stuff with. your strong leg or you're going to maintain the balance.

And you care more about form and stability of the movement than you do adding more weight to the exercise. So be cautious of that, right? So challenging the range and be and slow. So slow it down, pause. Like do mess with it that way and challenge the in ranges like their guys are talking about. Totally. Don't get all excited and go, oh, 10 more pounds. Don't go that way. We don't need to do that as much. Like this is more movement pattern thing. So when it's movement pattern stuff, it's stability, range of motion. That's the stuff that we're trying to focus on. And so don't get all giddy and just keep throwing more weight on because you feel good.

I think slow it down. Slow the tempo down. If it gets easier for you, slow it down, challenge the range a little bit further this week and a little bit further next week. Like that's the thought process. So like with the leg extensions, like when I get that shaky, like one of my legs coming up, it starts like to kind of chase, chase that, just slow that down and kind of. Slow it down.

Yeah. And slow down. Squeeze and pause. So get the top of that. Hold it there for a second, come down. So that's what you want to do. And that shakingness will go away if you practice that. Yeah, it'll go away.

Okay. So like you think it's, you don't think like the arthritis, like nothing to be. So here's a deal. There's arthritis there. They saw it. Can it get better with good movement? Yes. Can it get worse with bad movement?

Yes. Just so you know, all arthritis is, is fluid that's being sent in that area because it's being aggravated. It's being aggravated because we have poor movement patterns. So that can totally, so I had like bursitis, which is like arthritis in your hips, right? Which is this fluid. Once I fixed all my hip mobility movements, I don't have it anymore. It doesn't happen anymore.

So we can fix that. You can totally. So when they look on imaging, right? So arthritis looks like deterioration of a joint. You don't have immune-related arthritis. Yours is related to movement pattern issues. Correct those, the arthritis heel. Okay. Okay. Cool. That's very helpful. Yeah, you got to do. You got it, man. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Yeah. Thanks for calling in, man. Thanks for listening for so long. Yeah. Yeah. Good day. Yeah. Take it easy, brother. Take it easy. See you. That's awesome. Crazy. 18 years old. Was he 18? 18 we started all the 30. A bunch of muscle off, analytic. Yeah, that's pretty cool, dude. That's great. That's great. Yeah. That's wild. If he does what we say, he'll feel so much better. But when you don't, when you don't fix, and it's cool that he got imaging because the imaging show there's no major injury that's going on. You're just your knee is not moving great and it could be related to a few different things but once we fix that

it's fine. You know we should really do an episode on like arthritis and brisitis and talk a lot about that because I feel like this is what I can't say like doctor tells you that and then it makes it sound like oh I've caught this thing that my dad had my mom had now I got it now I can't do these things as I have I have arthritis

where I have brisitis and it's just like dude you could totally address that yeah it's like it doesn't just stop right there. And the doctor, when they say, I've heard it. I've heard him tell me. When they tell you, they tell you almost like you caught a, you caught this disease. You caught like a disease or something. It's like, it's a permanent diagnosis. Yeah. Yeah, they did that with one of our coaching clients for osteopenia, young girl. And the doctor afterwards is like, how did you get your osteopeno reverse? She's like, I'm lifting weights

and eating more. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, dude, we can reverse it. Absolutely fix this, man. Bricitis is very different from arthritis. They're both fluid that's sent over. No. So, Bursitis is inflammation of the bursa. Yeah. Arthritis is the joint itself. Both cause fluid to come in, but they're both different.

Oh, very different. Well, I mean, obviously there's a different diagnosis of both of them, but both of them are causing fluid to get filled up. The fluid, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Our next caller is Michael from Louisiana. Michael, how's going? What's up, man? Hey, guys, this is, it's crazy to actually be here.

I'm a little bit nervous. How can we help you? All right. So I'll get into my question, my letter real quick. I'm a 65-year-old guy, got back into lifting seriously about three years ago after starting TRT. And my strength gains and body recomb have been great. But lately, I have been having some chronic knee pain from my leg routine. I injured my right knee in my 20s by pushing too much weight on a Nautilus leg press way back in the day. And since then, I've been very strict about form. and never tried to push any crazy weights on the squats. So a few weeks ago, it was leg day, and I was doing squats, and I felt an uncomfortable twerk in that knee, and stupidly thought I could just keep going for another set, thinking maybe I had just let my form drift a little bit.

And even though it wasn't pushing a lot of weight, it just wasn't going to happen. So then I tried to switch to leg extensions, but that was way too painful. and had to just bail on the whole workout immediately. And then later in the day when I got to work, I couldn't do the stairs at all. So I had to use the elevator like all those old people,

and that really hurt me. So my question is, if squats are no longer on the table for me, what other movements can I do to safely keep my legs trained to the same degree? Just a little bit of background. on them six feet tall, 200 pounds, about 16 to 18% body fat. And prior to starting to your team, getting back in the gym, I was a very weak and skinny fat guy at 195 pounds. I've used the BPC 157 and TB 500 peptide stack in the past with some success with other injuries and did the same thing for this knee.

And after a few weeks, it's really helped a lot. So this wanted to turn it over you guys and see what you would recommend. I'm trying to do the math right now quick in my head. How much muscle would you gain? I was like, damn, you put some good muscle on, dude. That's like 15 to 20 pounds on muscle. Yes, dude, that's super impressive. That's phenomenal.

Good for you, bro. This is actually kind of easy, Michael. Because a lot of leg exercises you could do. But I think the question you're asking is, hey, I want to be able to maintain the ability to squat, which is important. Because you could, there's a lot of machines. You could do split stance exercises. they're all good. Pushing the sled is great.

Clishing the sled would be a huge... I think that's great. But if you want to keep squatting and you want to reduce the risk of injury or put differently, make it, quote unquote, safer or reduce the skill component of the squat and still maintain kind of its effects, a box squat is where you go.

I don't know if you've ever done box squats, but a box squat is phenomenal. It stops that, you know, at the bottom of the squat, you've got to change directions. That shift and momentum, is a higher risk of injury. It requires more stability and strength. With a box, you slowly sit down,

you wait for two seconds, then you stand back up, and it's a lot, you know, quote unquote, safer than a traditional squat when it comes to injury. So you're literally going down and just sitting on a... Yeah.

Yeah, so what you do is you get... Stopping all momentum. Yeah, so you get a bench. A bench works good. How low do you normally squat when you do a squat? As to grass. Okay, so you get a bench typical bench is probably a decent height.

You put it behind you. You back up with the weight. You brace your core. You slowly squat until you sit on the bench. Actually sit. Don't hit the bench, by the way. That's how people hurt themselves on the box squat. You slowly sit.

You wait on the bench for two seconds. Then you stand up. What you don't do is go up and down, up and down. Because that's the same thing. The other good cue or key is when you sit on the bench, don't relax your core. No. So don't rest.

So don't sit and rest. Like you're still tense and you're sitting. But you're sitting. So your butt is actually on there. But you're sitting. You're still upright with the chest high and core activated. And then you come back out of the hole. And that's,

that's just, it's a squat. It's still a squat. It just takes out part of the rep. That requires the most stability and control. Okay. Yeah. I normally do like a four day split.

And then one day for cardio, I've just worked in spin class ahead of this morning. I'm telling you after three weeks. of just laying completely off legwork and then just I think the peptides help I guess uh and I feel pretty much back to full good yeah mobility but I'm just being really careful I don't want to smart yeah smart yeah that's actually the one thing that I that that's a little scary about BBC and TB is you you recover so much faster false confidence and I've and I've had a couple of times where I've kind of re-hurt my hurt myself because I was like man I felt so good already and then went right back at it so

Just take it easy going back in. Yeah, take it easy getting back into it. I'm glad you said that, Adam. But yeah, they work really well. But it sounds like you might have strained your meniscus. That's a very common kind of tweak, you know, or later on it feels a lot worse, especially with squatting. Maybe a little torsion on the knee.

Maybe your ankle mobility could use some work. So that would be something else I would look at. We'd look at ankle mobility. Because if your feet want to turn out but they're grounded, you got twisting on the knee. and that sometimes can cause meniscus issues. Yeah, I believe my ankles are a little bit pronated. I had some pulled muscle in my calf and did some X-rays.

And the orthopedic told me I had like some pronated joint. And that's what happened. That'll do it right there, especially going as to grass. By the way, that'll make a huge difference with Sal is saying by shortening up. So here's a crazy class example of where advice changes per client, right? So we're always coaching people, range of motion, work under depth, get deeper. You have a case like that, I know just by shortening your range up and not going all the way deep, well, yeah, is way less risk and stress on your knees because of what you got going on.

And that's a classic example that. So his advice with the box squats, it'll completely take it out from it. So what it would look like, Michael, because you do the box squats, it's a shorter range of motion. The box stops the momentum. But you're like, hey, I want to train a really good full range of motion. Well, you can challenge it with lunges. Lunges take that component out and you can do that full range of motion,

still get everything working the way you want it. But I think you're going to love, I think once you start box squating, you're like this time I'm going to squat. Great. Okay, I'll give it a try. I just want to thank you guys again. You're my virtual gym bros in my ear.

Well, you're kicking ass, dude. Yeah, you're doing great. Yeah, you're kicking ass. I usually head for the gym at about quarter until five in the morning and put you guys on and hear your latest podcast. all the way there. See, the old Jack guys are always working on the morning. That's when I go to do that.

Hey, we appreciate the support, man. You're doing great. Yeah, absolutely. A big shout out to Doug and all the other guys behind the scenes. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Appreciate it, man. Thank you, Mike. Take care.

You got it. Yeah, so for people listening, when your ankles lack mobility, what happens when you squat is your feet want to twist. Your feet want to twist to create movement. that somehow. But your tennis shoes are grounded on the floor. So as you're squatting, there's this twisting torsion. And it's the meniscus that takes the way.

Well, you also have this, right? So you have this, naturally people, naturally your knees want to drop in, right? When the knees drop in, the femur internally rotates too like that. So let's just contortion on the, on the knee even more so. So, yeah, and especially after he said he goes astogras. Yeah. So astogastagrass, that issue going on, like for sure, that's what's going on. So box squat.

So a classic example where, you know, our advice could contradict it. You hear us talking about doing that, but it's like that's a classic example or you take that out. You know, it's wild about what we're saying, by the way, is if you see Olympic lifters, they get that knee coming in looking twisting and they do phenomenally well. You're dealing with incredible hip strength, mobility and ankle mobility. Yeah. And so it looks worse than it is. It looks gnarly. Well, yeah, that's like a-

That's like comparing you ever watch what a pitcher's shoulder looks like. I know. That would rip all the rest of our shoulders out of the socket. Good point. I've seen like where they take a freeze frame. Oh, yeah. It's all like, oh my God, bro. Contorted throwing a ball 100 miles an hour.

Everybody else's arm would come to their socket doing that. But yeah, no. It's great, great to see, though. I was trying to do the math real quick. Well, if we rounded up to 200, right, 200 pounds at 25% body fat is. That means he's got 25 pounds of fat. Is that? Oh, no, no, 50 pounds of fat.

50 pounds of fat. He cut down 10% of that. So he went down. So yeah, it's like 15, what is that? 15 pounds of muscle? Yeah. Wow. And he went up five pounds on the scale, though.

So he went up on the scale. Wow. That's, that's. Yeah. So he put like 15, 20 pounds of muscle on. Dude, that's great. He's got 170 pounds of lean body mass now before. What was his body?

150. 25%. Let me figure this out. So it was 45 pounds. Minus 1. 998. Yeah, what is it? Yeah.

146. Bro, he gained 25 pounds. 25. I said, I knew it, bro. like, I'm doing the math work. I'm like, that's a good 20 pounds or so of muscle right there. Dude, that's bad ass. Life-changing.

Yeah. Our next caller is Ryan from Indiana. Hey, what's up, man? What's it, Ryan? Hey, what's going on, guys? How you doing? Much. No, doing well.

Doing well. Thanks for taking my call. How can we help you? Yeah, no, so I wrote in a little while ago. Actually, I love how I wrote it, so I'll paraphrase it. But long back story, about 6-6, 250 currently as of this morning. Former college basketball player was always kind of a hard gainer. Actually hated the weight room for the longest time.

And luckily, I could run and jump a little bit. But over time, you know, crept up and, you know, now getting, you know, middle ages, about 37 years old now. And got five kids, so busy guy and, you know, really focus on strength and really fall in love with just training and getting stronger and all things. So all that being said, really focus. probably facing a little bit of what, you know, I hear you guys talk about a lot of insulin resistance, got some cholesterol numbers creeping up, some blood sugar numbers creeping up. I know you guys aren't medical professional, so not looking for medical advice,

but looking for the best way from your experience to really target that, right? Everything's like, oh, you lose 5 to 10 percent of your body weight, and, you know, that can improve cholesterol, that can improve insulin resistance, et cetera, but also don't want to just do that aggressively in a non-sustainable way. So really looking for what you guys think about from your experience at, you know, how to go about that, you know, maintaining a lot of the muscle that I've been able to build. But really the best way to kind of get after that from a training perspective. Give us a little bit of, I mean, five kids, what's sleep look like, what's diet look like currently right now? What is your workouts and daily activity look like?

Like, what's, yeah, give me more about what we're working. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, sleep is the youngest one right now is about 18 months old, but we have a sixth one on the way in October. So sleep's going to be a better role. Yeah, bro. Yeah. Yeah.

You're building a football team over there? What are you doing? Basketball team. You already got a start. You already got five for basketball. Exactly. Wow. So, yeah, so sleep's going to be at a premium here in about 10 or 12 weeks.

But right now it's pretty good. Diet-wise, been, you know, trying to die all that. that in really try to get hit protein heavy. I don't do a lot of tracking. I try to aim or at least understand, you know, the protein I get towards. I mean, even trying to get 23, 240 grams of protein is it's a lot. You know what I mean? That's a lot in the day. So trying to really do that in a whole natural way. Trying to recently, you know, with some of the cholesterol stuff focusing on some the leaner cuts and whatnot, you know, trying to, you know, get after some of that. Activity wise, I would say I'm close to 8,000 steps. I'm in it. I'm in a, I'm in a,

healthcare executive role. So it's an office job, but we have a pretty big building that I roam around, but I just use my phone to track. And at the end of the day, it's, you know, 8,000. So with the kids in practices right now, I have a chance to just wander around when they're out of the football fields and whatnot. So that helps. Like last night, I had like 13,000 steps because I just long hauled it while they're in practice. So I have some opportunities to build some of those things in. But yeah, and then training-wise, I would say I've done, I've dabbled with a lot of the programs. I think the one I got through most recently was anabolic. And I would say I made pretty great strength improvements despite some of the other habits.

Diet wasn't great. I wasn't really totally dialed in. Sleep was average. You know, I've recently tried to cut back on some of the, what I call celebrating life, some of my cocktails and whatnot. You know, cut back on some of the fun stuff there. But so I thought I made strides despite some of those things within it. I started power lift and then went on vacation and had like a complete week off.

And once I got back, I've just kind of dabbled with more of like I would, what I would think is like Maps 15 type style. A couple lifts a day, you know, 25 to 30 minutes, get some steps on the treadmill sauna and get out. I've kind of started to like that because I do like going every day. It's a morning thing, morning kind of ritual for me. I like that for you. I like that for you just so you know. I would have pushed you in that direction anyway. You're going to live in Maps 15 for a long time.

Yeah. That's your program. Until you slow down on the kids. All the different versions. Yeah. I mean, right. Until you shut the factory down. Right.

It's going to give you the best results. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Maths 15 protocol is going to build you the most muscle and strength. It'll trip you out. And we have a lot of Maps 15 programs. Do you have any of them? Because I'd like to send you one.

I have the original one. I have that one. I just like most people I call in. I played with it for a while. And I was like, oh, this isn't enough. I wanted to be in there longer. But as I've, you know, really going in and, you know, not going in and being like beat up from the day before and just being able to go in and, you know, push it, but not, I really have started to really enjoy that. The other one that I bought and I've been really intrigued about, but of course, and, you know, I would say I'm not scared of it, but it's a, is symmetry.

So I didn't know, like, you know, because I've done a lot of, I like, I like lifting heavy. like that's why I like when I go in and I just try to you know put weight on it and push it and so like lower reps I've tended to like and that's why I think I would try to go power lift but then it's also like I hear you guys talk about the symmetry the performance side of things and so I didn't know well do you have any something like that would work do you have any aches or pains um well right now my right elbow is a little messed up from like some golfing elbow type things but other than that not really all right because I could like I think all the mass 15 programs are perfect for you. If you like lifting heavy, I like Mass 15 power lift. I know. Powerless would be

yeah, I could send that to you, but you're going to live in the Maps 15 protocol for a long time. And again, I'm going to say this because I think sometimes people think it's like, okay, well, I got to do Mass 15. I'm not going to get as good results, but that's because of my life. This is what will give you the best results right now. None of our programs will perform better for you than the Mass 15 protocol. You just got to be consistent. I also like this for you, like that protocol, and then literally like, just from what you've told me already. All I want you to do is to be consistent on the protein thing and then literally just kind of and pull back on the drinking, like you said.

So whatever it was that you were kind of letting yourself celebrate for, make that be even more infrequent. So I don't know what that looks like in your lifestyle. I was just going to ask, Ryan, when you did your labs and your lipids came back and the blood sugar came back, was that before you made all the dietary changes? That was, I've been more aggressive about it. It was about three and a half. three and a half weeks ago now that I did to labs.

And so that was when I started to really dialing in at that point. I had labs done in May and they were similar. And I didn't really give it much. You might if I dig a little deeper because there's probably some big, some areas that will make the biggest impact. So you don't have to make like a million and one changes. When you were drinking, how often was it just like a nightly every night? You'd have a drink or two? Yeah.

Yeah, some of that. And then weekends, you know, maybe a few more than a few. Okay. So the alcohol, taking alcohol. out will make a huge difference in your blood sugar and insulin. It'll make a huge difference. So if you can cut that out or dramatically reduce it, maybe save it for once a week, but also don't turn that into like, I'm going to get hammered.

Sometimes it happens, like we don't drink all week and they're like, I'm going to go six drinks now. So the alcohol makes a big difference. And then before you started making these dietary changes, were you eating like eating like out and fast food and processed food or what was it? No, no, actually I've been eating pretty well. I would say for the most part, I mean, we do a lot of whole natural foods. I mean, with the kids, you know, you mix a lot of, you know, they like the pastas and some of the other stuff.

And I try to stay, you know, whole natural food myself. If I eat out, like, it's like a Chippold label, you know, double meat and all this stuff there. But for the most part is pretty good. I mean, I think there's probably some changes. But, you know, with the, I think the other thing I noticed was, you know, if I did, you know, if I was cooking, had a few drinks, like I would eat above and beyond probably what was necessary and, you know, push it.

pushing that regard. I do a lot of, you know, Greek yogurts. You know, that's how I kind of end my night. You know, Greek yogurt and some berries, those types of things. Oh. But yeah, so for the most part, not bad, but definitely can get tightened up. Honestly, the, the, focusing on the alcohol and hitting the protein consistent. That's it.

I wouldn't even want to. I would not overcomplicate the, the diet yet. Like that. Wait to see what that does. That with the paired with 15 power lift. And then if you want to add supplements, high EPA fish oil, uh, can have sometimes have some positive effects on on some of your numbers. And then what company is it, Doug, that you're you're using for cholesterol?

Dose. Dose? Is it dose? Dose, yeah. Dose. Yeah, you could try dose. Dose has some clinical trials that shows that it actually helps with lipids. Do you combine that with the reduction in alcohol, the whole natural foods hit your protein, math 15, three, four months from now, I bet you'll come back.

You'll see some big changes. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. That's great to hear. Yeah, I like the idea of the power lift. Because I started, like I said, I started on that pathway with just the regular program, the regular power lift program. But this 15 style, I'm starting to really embrace and like it.

I'm glad you like you're starting to embrace and like it because I wanted to push you there right away from. After you told me the kids, lifestyle things, it's the perfect program. I'd love to hear your numbers after it. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to see great results. You're going to stick with it. And then let me ask you a question, right, if that's all right?

Yeah. How do you manage so many kids and all that stuff? What's the secret? Great wife. Yeah, that's it. 100%. Mary's Saint. Yeah, no, it's busy.

We're loving it. We're, we're loving it. We're just, the oldest is only nine, too. That's the crazy part. So we got five that are nine and under, about to be six that are nine and under.

That's crazy. Good for you, man. That's got to be such a fulfilling life, but also so busy. We are busy, but man, is it fun. And we homeschool them,

so, you know, we're glutton for punishment there too. Wow, you guys are doing a great job. Good for you, bro. How many boys are and girls. What do you got? We got two boys and going on four girls. All right. We were boy girl, boy girl, and then the last two girls decided to break that

chain. So we're having, like I said, we're having a lot of fun with it. But you're right, where you are, we are busy. But they're getting, the oldest is getting into football right now, which is awesome, basketball, all the things. So we're staying busy in that regard. God bless you, so cool. Very good. We'll send you a 15 power lift, all right. All right, man. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, man. Thanks for calling in. All right, take care. You know, when I hear people with so many kids, first off, when you have, you know, good husband and wife working together, like, it's still busy.

It's still difficult, but it just sounds so fulfilling. You just got so much stuff going on. A solid team. House full of kids all the time. And I just envisioned this man at some point being a grandfather. He's going to be surrounded by so many. So do I. I mean, I think about that all the time.

When you have that many kids like that, one or two of them is bound to love you. and come back. You know what I hope? Your odds are better. But yeah, you might strike out on a couple of them, but you definitely get a couple of them. I got to really like you. You know what I'm saying?

They'll come back and hang out with you when you're old. But I got to say this too for people listening. Like for some, it's not like this for everybody, but definitely for significant percentage of people, daily alcohol consumption, even if it's just a couple drinks, it can have some pretty deleterious effects that you'll measure on blood lipids and blood sugar.

And you just get rid of that. I've had clients, and by the way, it's not easy to do because, you know, people get attached to it. But I've had clients get rid of that and it fixed everything.

Well, I'll add this too. And you're also talking extra 400, 500 calories. So I'll add this to that too, because I've been enjoying that more in my life than I ever did. And one of the biggest challenges for being a over six foot dude

who needs to hit protein, hard to hit my protein intake and have a couple glasses in the night. You know what I'm saying? That's why it has to be so infrequent for me. It's like, if I allow that, those calories end up going to empty calories,

and I miss my protein intake. The combination of that just screws up my training. So it's like that's what keeps me from having that drink here or there. Even though it's not that bad for you, it's just that tough to do both of those. Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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