Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2932: Phil Heath Used Less PEDs Than Everyone Thought ; Here Is the Real Story

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

MAPS BOGO: https://mapsbogo.com Buy one get one free — mix and match any of the top 10 most popular programs (Anabolic, Aesthetic, Performance, 15 Minutes, Anywhere, Symmetry, Starter, Muscle Mommy, Powerlift, 40+) for $157. In this episode the guys sit down with seven-time Mr. Olympia Phil Heath for a wide-ranging conversation covering the military, faith, bodybuilding and business. Phil shares stories from years of USO tours — including a trip to Guantanamo Bay with the Most Interesting Man in the World, drinking the ceremonial grog three times at a Medal of Honor ceremony, and training with Marines on base. He breaks down how being a hyper responder shaped his approach to PEDs (less is more), the problem with influencers recommending a gram of testosterone or 400-500mg of Trenbolone to beginners, why he believes GLP-1s are essentially cheating in competition prep, why he thinks no one in the open division is bringing diet face anymore, how barbell rows and training back twice a week transformed his physique, the mental shift from training angry to training joyful after his faith walk, his four and a half years of depression post-retirement, how he turned down Hollywood roles he felt were degrading, and his anticipation of becoming a father for the first time at 46. The guys also get into bodybuilding prize money history — from $100K and a Hummer in the early Arnold years to Arnold and the Olympia now bidding against each other toward $750K and beyond.   Vita Bella / MP Hormones: https://mphormones.com Book a complimentary 10-minute consultation to find out if Vita Bella is right for you. Consultation: https://meetings-na2.hubspot.com/alever/marketing-membership-consultation Or use code MINDPUMP365 to start your annual membership and receive a free blood panel and gift.   GUEST LINKS   Phil Heath: https://www.instagram.com/philheath Phil's app and coaching: launching soon — follow @philheath for updates   LINKS   Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   0:00 - Intro 1:59 - Phil's USO tours — Guantanamo Bay, Medal of Honor ceremonies and training with Marines 9:32 - How Phil is training now — 3-4 days a week, eating twice a day and prepping to have a kid 17:23 - Being a hyper responder — why Phil used less than most people think 23:05 - PED influencers recommending crazy doses to beginners — why Phil is frustrated 29:54 - The biggest training mistakes Phil sees today — speed, ego and no mind-muscle connection 40:27 - How barbell rows and training back twice a week transformed Phil's physique 42:34 - Why Phil cut arm training to every other week — and why it worked 51:44 - GLP-1s in professional bodybuilding — why Phil thinks over 90% are using them and why it's a problem 55:25 - Why no one has diet face anymore — inflammation, compounds and shortcuts showing up on stage 1:02:46 - Food poisoning at the 2009 Olympia — EMTs in his room until 6am the night before the show 1:13:02 - Phil's four and a half years of depression after retiring from bodybuilding 1:20:48 - Hollywood offers, "bucks breaking" and why Phil turned them down 1:24:26 - Transition from training angry to training joyful — the faith shift that changed everything 1:30:40 - Phil's path to fatherhood at 46 — what he's thinking and what he wants for his kid 1:47:22 - Bodybuilding prize money history — from $100K and a Hummer to Arnold vs. Olympia at $750K  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump, Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in history, approaching over half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, Phil Heath, one of the most winning Mr. Olympias of all time. Also, great guy to have a conversation with.

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why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at Mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to Mindpumpstor.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Phil, welcome back to show, man.

Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we have the full crew. Some fun conversation off the air. I had FOMO last time, dude. I know, man. Adam wasn't here. I don't, where was I?

I don't remember. It's not often that I'm going to be here for something. You had to do something. No, you were sick. Sick. Yeah, you were really sick. Yeah, you were really sick. For Adam to miss.

I was going to say, that's kind of weird. I must have been really bad. Fratural. But we had a great conversation, so I was excited to have you back on. Off air, you mentioned that you did some U.S.o shows. I want to hear about this. Yeah. How did that start?

and tell me a little bit. And then what would you do that? Would you just Q&A or what was that all about? So initially, when I became an I-FBBB-B-Pro, you know, one of my first two pro shows, ended up signing with metrics. They would have me go to military bases in Hawaii. And Hickham and Schofield, I would do appearances at.

And then I would go so often that I'm like, man, I just want to like do more of these appearances. This is really cool. So, you know, I was like, how can I do more? And they're like, oh, you can apply to be, like one of the, you know, athletes, talent, guys that would go around the country, if not part of world through the U.S.O. So I just signed up and then next you know, I'm getting flown around everywhere.

And I've always recognized that our service members deserve, you know, the world, you know, because they defend our freedom, you know, they die for it. Freedom comes at an ultimate price, right? So it was always my honor and privilege to go do that. I've been to, you know, even bodybuilding shows through the U.S.O. like in Okinawa. Oh, really? Yeah.

Went to Okinawa. I watched them compete. I'm like, dang, man. These Okinawans, man, gets shredded, dude. You know, they're living off of seafood all the time, right? So that was cool. Even went to Gitmo. Wow.

Yeah. I went to Gitmo. Wow. Yeah, it was myself and the most interesting man in the world, you know, Jonathan Goldsmith, the Doseki's guy. Oh, wow. No way. So he and I did an appearance together.

Oh, that's cool. Random. Is he really that interesting? He was. Oh, really? I was so adamant about ripping into the lieutenant about like the old jail and the new jail and how we like supposedly waterboard everybody and all this stuff. And I'm like at lunch like, dude, like I'm just trying to like get through the day. I got this meet and greet.

I'm just trying to keep it cool. And I just want to see some stuff. But yeah, I was able to go to Gitmo. Actually saw the old jail. Saw like where the minefield is. Like there's like a minefield that still went off. at the time. Yeah.

You're like, what's that? And they're like, oh, yeah. Somebody just in mine. Might be a iguana. I don't know. Wow. I'm like, okay. Got to see there's like a line where our skipper and Castro would like greed each other with gifts.

A gate, essentially. And then we, what the crazy part about that trip was that we went into their boats and then drove over by where people would defect. and we would have to do catch and release. So the problem that I had was when they would tell me, because I didn't see this firsthand, thank goodness, is that we would catch them, we would release them back on their beaches, and they would execute them just like that.

Whoa. As a point. Yeah. For getting caught? Is that like what? Yeah, for defecting. For defecting. It's like, oh, yeah, you want to be over there.

Okay. This is what we do to you. Wow. So I was able to see that, you know, like here, those stories. but, you know, did a lot of different appearances, got a chance to even go to some of the awards ceremonies like the U.S.O. Gala in D.C., where I was basically handing out the awards for each branch of military for excellence, so like the best Coast Guard, best Air Force, best person for each branch. So that was neat. And then even ended up doing, what's it called the, it was a mellow

of honor ceremony. Oh, that's cool. American Airlines Air Power Foundation. It's called Skyball. That's what it was, Skyball. So I went to Skyball, and I was on stage with my good friend, chef Robert Irvine, and he would do all the meals for everyone there. And then Gary Senise has his Lieutenant Dan Band play. And they had us, all three of us, on stage with all the chefs,

all these different dignitaries of military. And we ended up doing this thing called the Grog. and the grog's supposed to, I believe it's supposed to simulate the muddy waters of like, you know, was it Vietnam or whatever? And they take like a bucket and you're supposed to throw like whatever you want in it.

So it can be alcohol, it could be ice cream, it could be hot sauce, it could be everything. And they stir it up and everybody has to drink it. Oh, God. I drink it three times. So this is in front of a bunch of, you know, one star, two star, three star generals and stuff. And I'm just trying to, you know, bro it up.

Yeah, yeah. My wife is down there like, oh my God. like you're going to get hammered, you know? Did you? I was feeling myself, you know? And so Robert is actually closing the show and says, hey, you know, I brought my, you know, really good friend, Mr. Olympia Phil Heath. This event is being publicized all throughout the world on all the different bases.

And Phil is going to close the show and hands me in the microphone. After you had a bunch of grog or whatever. Oh, God. Probably had one of the best speeches of my life. No way. Oh, you're so loose. It was way too loose, but like happy, excited, no ums or us. Like, every synaps in my brain was just on point.

That's awesome. My wife was like, you're freaking lucky. Because I was going to kill you. But yeah, so I've done a lot of those things and I will do them again. I'm assuming there's a lot of questions about training and stuff. Yes. So my biggest thing is to always, like when I get on base, you know, I put my bags down and I go straight to the gym. Oh, wow.

Because I want to train with the Marines, the Army guys. I usually train with them first and then go hit guys from Air Force later. But I remember a few times where I would go into the gym and there'd be a Marine like doing bench and I'd just stand right over him. He's like, oh my God,

I feel like, keep going, cute. Yeah, that's cool. Spot them and like hang out and do all that stuff because, you know, PT is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah, and their nutrition, of course, has to be on point. I imagine there's a lot of bodybuilding fans.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I would say there is primarily because back when I was competing, even at the beginning of my career, you know, working with Flex Magazine Muscle and Fitness, we would send care packages of like magazines

and stuff like that. So I would sign some and they would ship them out. And I always thought that was really cool that Flex Magazine did that. Yeah. Because it just gives them, you know, like, hey, we see you. We see you and we appreciate you.

I imagine too, especially when you're on a base overseas, it's like this is the time that I get to go do my thing. and I want to lift. And I love the pictures I'll see sometimes of like some of these gyms. Yeah. And some of the equipment that they actually make.

Yeah, a little makeshift gyms. Yeah, dude. And part of me is kind of like, that would be a sick workout. Just kind of that basics and just, you know, you're out there.

Well, you actually know it's 45 pounds or maybe you don't know it's 45 pounds. There's no fake weights out there. Yeah, yeah. It's a good time. So you're, you've been maintaining your size and shape

like really, really well. Are you training a lot? Or last time I talked to you, like, well, I kind of trained, which is always too, guy like me like, damn.

It's been kind of the same to be honest. Yeah, I went through spurts, right? So my whole thing was every time I would go into the gym and be very regimented, right? In my mind, I would think of doing a show. And it's just how I've been wired. I see. And I got so upset at that that I thought, I just won't go to the gym anymore. I'll just go a couple days a week just to kind of get away.

It was almost like it's tugging me back in. Disconnect. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it wasn't good. It wasn't healthy, I don't think. So then I would literally have to pray about it. And like, okay, like, I need the gym to mean something different now. So it dawned to me.

I was like, all right, Phil, like you're 46. Why don't you just be the most in shape 46-year-old you can be? Be the evidence that you could actually compete at an extremely high level when all these shows. still be able to be mobile, functional, but look and feel healthy and share that story. So that's really where I'm at now is to prove that, you know, a 25-year-old is going to hear me speak and they may listen, they probably won't.

But the 35-year-old will because they know that they're closer to 40 than ever before and they want to have that confidence like, hey, am I going to be okay? You know, am I going to be all right? Well, Phil did. Yeah, he had a couple of injuries, but, like, he was also Mr. Olympia seven times. So really the way I define it now is just I'm in that gym three to four days a week. Okay. The eating I'm still like having too much fun with.

I love my pasta. I love my carbs and I love sweets, man. So it's like, but I'm toning that down as well because this summer I'm actually going to do a little prep for myself. Talk about how. Go ahead. No, I just, I'm curious about that balance for you because I love all those things too. I'm a big sweet eater, love pastas, love all that stuff. What does that balance look like for you?

Because I know that's changed for me over years, like what I've learned to do. Because I still enjoy that. I still enjoy my ice cream. I still do things like that. But I've also had to, in moderation, right? So how have you changed that? And do you allow that into the diet? And then you go, okay, if I do it.

Okay. So that's how you have to do it. Because if I go to the grocery store and buy it or if my wife thinks like, oh, I'm going to just surprise him because I know he loves ice cream and I know he loves this. I just don't buy it. that's how I am. You know, just because if it's in the house, I can't let it spoil. I can't let it get freezer burnt. I'm going to be having at it.

And then now that we live in North Austin, barbecue is like, I have to have it. I feel like that would be a sin. I have to have it. I have it. I have to have it. So that's like the one thing that I will make sure I have like maybe once every other week. What's your favorite spot there? I don't have one.

Not yet. Like, because I haven't been to all of them yet. I think it was a lot barbecue, right? The one we did. Yeah, La Barbecue is one. Yeah. I like that one. Blacks, Law Barbecue.

Blacks is good. Like, I think it might be, I don't want to say, I don't think it's overrated. I just think they have to go at a certain time. I agree. Like, my family that live there and they say blacks all time. Law Barbecue is our favorite. I don't think that lands on everybody's top five list. I think that's one of the best places.

I haven't been to Salt Lake. Have you been to Salt Lake? I don't think we've been to a lot. We've got to go back. We've been a while, yeah. Talk about how easy or hard. It's probably easy. how easy it is to keep, to maintain muscle versus how maybe a harder was to build.

Because I'm looking at you three, four days a week and kind of whatever. Yep. But you've kept a lot of your side. I mean, how different, what's your body weight difference now versus when you were like pushing it? What is it? What is it a difference? 40 pound difference. Okay.

So there's a big difference. But you still got so much muscle on your body. Yep. How is it easy to kind of keep? I'd say it's easy to keep as long as I'm, I mean, look, I can literally, as it right now, I can literally eat. twice a day and be fine. That's so wild. I'm more on, you know,

fertility protocol because I'm trying to have a kid, so I can't be running a bunch of tests and that stuff. So you're like TRT, go to the gym for a week. Yep. Just a, you know, a little siponate and, you know, all the other stuff that he's got me taking just to... Probably HCG to keep you producing. Yeah.

ACG, FSH. That's really it for now. Yeah. And then get bloods done here, I think, in the next two weeks and figure out that baseline. Yeah. To say, like, okay, Phil, like, because my wife is fertile. Like, she's already ready to rock and roll. I got to make sure I am.

Yeah. So I'm curious to see what those numbers will look like. And then based off of that, we'll know what to increase or dial back or change up. But yeah, I'm at that point now where if I was to actually eat four or five times a day. That's the big one. That would make a huge difference. I would gain probably easy 10 pounds in like a month easily. Yeah.

So it's weird like how my body wants to. It's like my cells are like, no, no, no, no. We, we, you're basically I'm a hyper responder, essentially, through food, exercise, you know, PDs, you name it. To answer your question, like, yes, it was hard to build. You know, when I first started competing, I was natural, competing a couple shows. And it was just always hard to go from like 175 pounds just to 200 pounds in a off season. But then, you know, you get enhanced.

I didn't have like those big jumps like you see like on social media like, oh, I'm going to gain 20 pounds in one year. I'm like, I never really had that. Mine was always like five to seven pounds. And then it was just more refinement. I won't say like 232, 235. And then the heaviest I weighed at the Olympia was like 248. So I stayed.

Pretty close. And I stayed. But you looked, I mean, you look like you had a, way more muscle than that. Yeah, especially in your back. Yeah. More muscle per square inch just due to the fact that I was willing to die for it, right? Like, I think the way I prepared for it with my trainer-hawley-Rambod is to make sure that

your off-season isn't too crazy where you're just, you know, eating everything, but you're actually training very, very well. Like, I would train very, very well. Like when I say, well, that doesn't mean that I'm lifting the roof because I wasn't that type of lifter. but I was always very consistent and very structured. You were, I would say, I would classify as a smart lifter, where you were going in and being real smart with your lifting,

whereas some other guys go nuts, but then they pay for it with, you know, injuries and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, we've all seen it, right? Yeah. And although you want to, you know, go crazy, you have to think, well, I have an opportunity to have a long, healthy and prosperous career. So, Honey and I would talk about it.

Like, oh, man, like, it would be really cool to, like, you know, squat five, six hundred pounds and do that and do all this cool stuff. And back then it wasn't social media driven. So I'm glad I didn't have it back then because maybe I would have pushed the envelope. Or the temptation. Just the temptation of wanting to get something filmed. For me, it was just like, make them think that you can lift that just by how you look. And how separated I could get the cartoonish muscle. that I could carry and just the illusion, right?

I'm going against guys that were well over 260 to 300 pounds. You know, Rami was over 300 pounds when I competed against them before. So it's like, how do I nullify that? Well, be more separated and conditioned than the next guy and you'll stand out. Yeah. Yeah, talk a little bit about being a hyper responder because you hear a lot of guys. They don't realize just how big of a difference there is. between individuals and how they can respond.

Everybody will build muscle. Everybody will respond. But it's funny, like the first time this really dawned on me, because I knew this, the difference, but the first time it's really dawned on me, we interviewed Ben Pekolsky years ago. And I remember him saying to me, yeah, I'm trying to lose 100 pounds of muscle.

I was like, what do you mean trying? He's like, why can't? I eat once a day. I barely work out, and it's just not coming off my body. I could lose muscle just by not missing a few weeks. And if I ate once a day, would come off my body very quickly. Talk a little bit about that hyper-respondent.

You mentioned PEDs even. I think everybody thinks at that level you take the most PEDs. That is not the case. No. No, it wasn't. And I think it was based on how I started my career. I think what people don't realize is I was already an athlete, you know, prior to bodybuilding, you know, playing Division I basketball. You look jacked as a basketball player.

So I kind of had a base, you know, just with that. And I was just doing like the old school Herschel Walker workouts, like no waist. just body weight stuff. Growing up in the 80s was great for me, by the way. It was just awesome. It was always about how many push-ups, sit-ups, and pull-ups you could do. But being able to do my first couple, you know,

MPC shows and actually beat guys that were on gear, that gave me a lot of confidence to know that like that. If I'm able to go against a guy that's been doing this for five to ten years and he's been using, and I'm already better than him, that doesn't mean that I should start. And if I do start, how about we just start with just like one compound? Yeah. Just one.

And so I would do that and then I would journal it. This is how I looked off. Oh, you're pretty meticulous. Yeah. Because, you know, I have like an IT background as well. So I'm like, everything has to kind of make sense. So then I can look back and say, okay, you were 200 pounds. You're taking this many grams of protein, this many grams of carbs, you know, and you decided to hop on something.

You did that for eight weeks. where you, and then also were you still consistent on your eating habits? Because I think what happens is guys just start taking gear and then they just eat like crap. Yeah. Because they're still. That's going to do all the work. Yeah, it'll do all the work. And they're young too.

So like they don't realize they already have a lot of testosterone. So now they just threw some nitrous on that thing. And they can go lift. But when they come off, it's just like snarf. You know, like I also learned through, you know, people like even Ronnie Coleman. I would ask him questions when I first turned pro. Good example. He was natural for a long time.

Yeah. So I asked him, I was like, hey, after you win the Olympia, what do you do? Like, do you still go to the gym? Like, do you still, like, walk me through it? And he was like, yeah, I basically do the Grand Prix, got some guest posing, but then after that, shut it down. He's like, what does that mean? You know, he's like, well, I'm off everything. And he would not go to the gym for like a month.

And you were like, man, Mr. Olympia, you're supposed to go to the gym every day. He's like, no, I give my body a chance to heal. And then I was asking more about the PD stuff. his era, there were guys like him at the time, and people won't even want to believe this, but he was telling me, he was like, yeah, I'd come off for like three months. He's like, I don't need to be on gear all year round because my body needs to,

you know, those receptors can get fried essentially. And, you know, so therefore I did that. And I think that's why my body was able to go from being a super sand to actually just a normal, you know, sand and know how to figure out that base form. And that really helped me with my confidence because you start to see guys that you're competing against on tour. Like, let's say Kai Green for instance. I would see Kai around this time of the year, 305 pounds shredded going to the Pittsburgh Pro to go guest posts. And I'm like, geez, man, I'm really just now hopping on like a little bit of something.

And I'm kind of like flabby a little bit, you know, I'm not hard. And I'm only like 250. And I'm, you know, I'm going to have the internet think that I'm going to lose this year. There's Olympia. But then it was like, are you running his race or are you running your own? You're already beating them. So just run yours. And that insecurity, although it got heightened at some point, the injections didn't.

Because I knew that the plan I had was just to be able to walk away from it with my health and have some real muscle maturity along with it. So yeah, now like I can, you know, kind of eat what I want. And I feel like I did build a lot of mature muscle. And that was because of the fact that it was a lot of my effort, obviously combined with the diet and the recovery. But I also have learned most recently, you know, just you can't throw a bunch of gear when you're like, you know, gut microbiome is jacked, when you have inflammation problems elsewhere. Mitochondri function is, you know, not good, all those things. And I feel like I did have that by proxy of doing the modalities. such as the, I was doing red light.

I owned a Fetarist 320 back in 2010. Oh, wow. So I was doing that. I just didn't broadcast it. I was doing acupuncture. I was doing all these things, the red light saunas, you know, the infrared sonnas, you know, plunges. I was doing that way before it became popular. So that was always my go-to of like, you can't just focus on the gear and you can't just

slam a bunch of food. You have to train and you have to know how to recover faster. and I would invest more money and time for that, which gave me more quality, I think. I think this is always a speculation, but because of social media, and my algorithm now shows this, because I'll click on these videos,

because they're so crazy. And it's these fitness influencers, but they're like PED influencers. Yeah. And the recommendations they're making are crazy. Yes. Like, I'm hearing some crazy stuff. Like I saw one the other day where a guy's like,

500 milligrams of testosterone, you're not going to grow off that. You need at least a gram. That's crazy. Yeah. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like from what I knew from the gym industry, I never, you know, was in the bodybuilding world. But I'm like, that's a cycle.

And you're telling these kids. That's a real cycle, dude. And you're telling kids that they're not going to grow on that. They need take a gram of testosterone. And they look like nothing. And what they're talking about like with tremolo. No, you need at least 500 milligram. I'm like, oh my God.

I'd be coughing like crazy. I'm just being honest. Like, I'm just going to keep it real. Like, go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh, no. I'm just blown away. I think it's getting crazy.

It's not producing better physiques, by the way, because you're getting just by the regular Joe's that are taking this crazy stuff. That's exactly what's happening. It irritates me. I'm just going to say it. Like, I've been very irritated over the past few years, especially most recently, because these are things that should not be talked about as freely as they are. It's dangerous. These are dangerous compounds. And people say, well, Phil, you did it.

It's like, dude, but I also had a foundation. I also was doing things. I didn't take growth hormone until my second Arnold Classic. Oh, wow. Wow. So I think it comes down to the fact that majority of people that choose to do these PEDs have heavy insecurity issues. Oh, no doubt. And it pours into, well, I'll just do gear.

And we're talking about like 16-year-olds now. And they'll openly talk to me about it at events. So you got kids coming up to telling you. Oh, for sure. Like with their, you know, it's crazy with their parents. I'm really? Oh, yeah. I was in freaking Idaho this year.

No, no, last year. I'm sorry, at a nutrition shop. And this kid comes up and his mom is there and she's like, yeah, you know, he's really into this bodybuilding stuff. And I was like, yeah, I was like, oh, okay. And so I look at it. I was like, so what year are you in college, you know? And he was like, oh, man, I would have gave you 20 easily, you know, whatever. Especially with that type of physique.

He was like, oh, yeah, thanks, man. I'm running this, this. And I was like, whoa. In front of his mom. And I'm looking at the mom. And she goes, yeah, his dad's not around. around and this and that, what can I do? He's going to do what he wants.

And I'm like, whoa. So it comes to that as well. So as much as we can kind of bitch and moan about these kids, you know, talking about these compounds on social, which I think is wild. Because back in the day, if you mentioned anything, you were afraid that the DA was not being arrested. Yeah. Like we had to like be like, z.

Oh, they're posting posts a videos of themselves using it. Dude, that's a guy on the airplane. It's a different world. They can literally take this syringe and be like, yeah, this is what I'm doing today. I'm like, whoa. So, yeah, I think it's just, I think it's the devil, man. I think that social media, oh, man, it gives us such a skewed view of reality, man. Like, they're not talking about the side effects.

They're not talking about the guy that, you know, I just think it's real drug addiction. And I think where they're getting it from. Great, great point. I think it's a different type of drug addiction. As you know, you guys know this. This is mind pump, man. You guys know all this data. How many kids are out there?

you know, smoking weed like they used to or drinking. You don't hear about alcoholism with kids anymore. They don't do it. They'll do steroids, though. They'll do PEDs. They'll do all that stuff. Because they're so vanity based off of a freaking algorithm that I believe right here, right now, if social media was blank for a week, we'd have severe mental illness. And if it was gone for a month, for everyone, including myself, I would be fine.

They wouldn't even go to the gym. Yeah. If social media was not around, I don't think these kids would care less about going to the gym anymore. They're not real gym goers. They're just, and this is not all of them. It's just fueling insecurity. Exactly. Like I just, and I see it.

You know, I'm old enough to know some personality disorders. And I'm like, if this guy wasn't doing PEDs, you'd probably be drinking. You'd probably be smoking. Probably doing other things. So, of course, this is a call to action, all the parents out there. be mindful of what your kids are doing. Where are your kids? Where are your kids? And search their room. And if you see your kid gaining, you know, mass, you know what I'm saying? And crushing food.

It's not bad to ask, hey, what are you doing? And you should be, and these parents know, man, but I think sometimes they don't know how to talk to their own kids because they're soft. And they want their kids to be on YouTube. They really do, you know, like, Because what is a little bit of living vicariously? We wanted to be, I wanted to be a basketball player. You know, a lot of people want to be athletes and stuff. These kids, they don't care about none of that. They want to be on YouTube.

That's it. And if they can go ahead and take a drug or if they can get some implants on some boobs or some butt cheeks, they'll go do it. Like, that's the world. No, the algorithm is feeding into it. The more crazy stacks, to your point that they do, the more likes and views. And like, so it's just, it's pushing it. And they think it's funny.

Yeah. Oh, man, bro. Like, I'm on trend. Ha, ha. And I'm like, you do realize, like, I don't even, let me ask you guys a question. Do you even think they have like the, you know, like, like back when I first started competing, you know, you had the supplement review guide, right? Yeah, yeah. And then you had like Anabox 2,000.

Yeah, yeah. You think these guys even have that? No, they're just going on the, they're just on social media. I mean, TikTok. People don't realize when, when Friend Ballone was being used first, it was, I think was Parabolin was the name of it. It was like a French story. It was, the pros were using 75 milligrams a week. Yep, that it was 76 milligrams.

and 1.5 ampule, CC ampule. And they use that once a week. These kids are like 400, 500 milligrams. I don't know how there's more like destruction in the world because I was able to get my hands on that once and I literally wanted to like, I didn't want to leave the gym. And that's not me advocating for it. It was just like, it made, that was the one compound

that made me like rage. Well, it's the one that's most closely connected to, mental health issues, anxiety, sexual dysfunction. Yep. Like these kids are getting on there saying weird stuff about their sexual function and desires and weird stuff. Yeah, I actually came off of it. I remember doing it for like two weeks and I was like, I can't take this. It's just this is something that is too strong that I don't trust myself on as just a, it's like, hey, if you know, tequila don't make you a happy person, man.

You probably shouldn't drink it. Yeah. And as body. D ball both were like that for me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think having a level of disqualify. sermon is important too. But that comes with age, I think, as well. What are the big mistakes

you're seeing with people these days with just their strength training? Are there trends that you're seeing now that need to be reversed or mistakes? I mean, I see the same mistakes as far as like not slowing things down. No one really works on the eccentric movements as they should. I think it's just like, you know, lift as heavy as you can as fast as you can, make as much noise as you can. And that probably goes back to what we've been talking about, this whole theme of social media. Nothing looks sensational if you're slowly contracting something. It just doesn't look as cool.

It's definitely a skill, and I give all the credit to bodybuilders, because you have a lot of strength sports, right? You have power lifting, Olympic lifting. You've got strong men. But bodybuilders really are the experts at making a weight feel heavy. Yep. Good ones, right?

Rather than lifting heavier, which I think is important when you're a beginner, just get stronger. but at some point the risk versus reward isn't very good you're not going to get more gains from adding

50 pounds to your squat anymore but you're probably better off slowing down and making it feel heavier yeah or just repping the hell out of it you know like you know I could

back squat pretty heavy but I get front squat even better so in order to get bigger quads my coach was like Hawny was like Phil we'll do pre-exhaust and then you're going to do

five sets of 315 squats for 20 reps. Oh, God. Oh, boy. And, you know, I'm living in Denver. Oh, God. So let's go with the altitude. Wow. And we're doing that twice a week.

Wow. Lundges, plus hack squats, plus leg press. And if he really wants to piss me off, he's throwing some vertical leg presses in there as well. Oh, those are gnarly. You know, so that's a long day where I wasn't a person I ever, like, puked during a workout, but I sure is hell passed out many times. like I just got laid down.

But that volume really helped. I really feel like you start getting to that risk-first reward, you know, aspect. And I trained by myself. So we always designed a workout where I can handle that way. And if I did fail, I'm not going to die. You know, you know what I mean? What was the value of working with a coach? Because you're so experienced.

What point in your career did you, did Hauny get you? What point after I turned pro? After you turn pro. Yeah. So before Olympia. No, no, no. before, like, so after I, after I won my pro card, that was when I was searching for a coach. Okay.

I was kind of looking for a coach when I was doing the NPC Junior Nationals. Yeah. But that was only because I was told that I needed one. Yeah. Because I was already getting calls from Steve Blackman over at muscular development and the late Peter McGuff over at Flex. So they had like this bidding war to try to get me to be exclusive athlete. So Peter McGuff was like, I want you to work with Chris Aceto. I like Chris Aceto.

And he was obviously a contributor to the magazine as well. And he was working with Jay. So, you know, Jay was their guy. Yep. And then Steve Bleggwin was like, well, I have Chad Nichols. And he works with Freakin'Roney Coleman. And he's worked with Flex Wheeler. He's worked with these guys.

So I ended up hitting up Chad the week of the junior nationals in 05. And he probably just didn't recognize the number and didn't call, you know, call me back. So then after I got my pro card a month later, I ran into Hauny. then in August at the IFAB North Americans. Okay. And then I met him and I was like, I recognize you from the magazine in MD. I have a column and this and that.

So then I watched him. I basically job shadowed him when he was training Charles Rearty and Bill Wilmore for the MPC Nationals that same year. And based off his interaction with his clients and also the client's girlfriends and family, I was like, okay, I think I can give him autonomy over this physique because I like the way he coaches his clients, but I also like how

he handles the people around him, them as well, like asking them questions. How has his training been? What has he gone to the bathroom? Like, is he stressed? Is he this? He's very meticulous on all these different things. And it, but for us, it had to start off kind of like a friendship. I had to know that if we're going to be on the phone for like 30 minutes to an hour, I got to know that I like actually being around you, you know, because I don't want to just be with someone that is very rigid and, you know, very rude and that I didn't vibe with, but we vibed on various other things. So I would fly out here to go meet up with them.

And one day he was like, all right, man, we're both talking on the phone way too much, man. We're going to work together or not. So we're like, all right, let's do it. So we did the 2006 Sean Ray Pro-M. And that's where we really got down and dirty and did our first approach. Now, he's local, so when you would fly in, where would you guys train at? Over at the Golds and Campbell. Oh, really?

Yeah. So we're trying to work at Golds and Campbell. Yeah, we're not that far. What was the value of working with a coach? What did that help you? Just get, like, okay, I'm going to give this to someone else and just. Yeah, Ronnie was the one that told me I needed a coach. Really, really told me that. I mean, everybody else did.

Like I told you about Steve Blackman and Peter McGuff, but I felt like that was more agenda-based based on working for a magazine. Of course, they want you to get a coach. Right. But with Ronnie, I was like, well, who do you think? And he said, well, honey's really good. And it was funny because I was like, all right, that makes sense. So the value of it was Ronnie said, you need a second set of eyes.

You really, he was like, you don't need to be stressed about all this stuff, getting ready for a show. The last week, it gets really gnarly. And you just need someone with a good eye and really good communication skills. I was like, that makes sense because that's what a coach really has to do. But as far as the value, oh, man, I mean, he was able to push me without being in the room, if that makes sense. We did everything pretty much remote. We probably trained together like a handful of times throughout each year. Anything you changed because of his coaching, like with your training or technique?

Just knowing, like, when to push a little bit further past my limit and when to kind of like back off, especially cardio. because I can get on cardio like nobody's business. Well, you were a basketball player. Yeah, so it was nothing. Did you have a tendency to overdo cardio before? I would want to, but then I realized, like, he would pull the reins back on that and be like, you don't need all that or you need to do more. His whole thing was like, let's see how further we can push my physique without a ton of carbohydrates. So I hated that.

I ain't going to lie. Like, that was something that was extremely difficult. you know, I remember doing my first show as a pro, and I was doing like for eight weeks, no more than 125, 130 grams of carbs. Like no cheap meals, no nothing. And like all white fish. Like all white fish.

It was brutal. But I came out shredded. So I didn't, you know, in your mind, you're like, I don't care. Yeah. But the coaching aspect I'd say as we got close to, like, when I was training for the Olympia, handling the noise and knowing like,

I needed him, you know, there to kind of give me an understanding, because he was sick at, like, third row or fourth row, and he would text me backstage because they wouldn't let him backstage. I don't even know why. Personally, I believe, they probably thought it was an unfair advantage because they knew I was coming because they let Neil Hill, they let all these other guys back there with their clients, but they always made Haunny, like, you know, have to.

Wow. Oh, interesting. Do you have a, what's the most memorable Olympia for you? Hmm. you know, you would think it would be the first one. And I think as I've done more interviews, yeah, the first one. But man, like the third one and the seventh one were like... Well, that's because you got pushed in those ones?

The third one was because of the fact that everything was clicking. That was the heaviest ever weighed on Olympia stage. And I did one call out on that Friday night projection. Are you battling Jay or Kai at that time? Kai at that time. Yeah. So I did literally one call out after my individuals, which was insane because they called me back out to do the last call out. And then Steve Weinberg was like, Phil Heath back in line.

And I was like, that's respect right there. Like I just, you know, gave someone the Tyson uppercut, man. You know what I'm saying? Knocked him out. Not even close, Doug. It's not even close. I mean, it hasn't been done since, right? I think it was only done one other times.

Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah. I think the last time that happened was I was told, I think it was J. Emmanuel that told me it was like Lee Haney had done that one year. I think it was like an 88 or something like that. So it's not something that judges are going to do, especially in a two-day show. Yeah. Yeah.

A two-day show, like, okay, you go there for two days. You see, you see me up there with everybody else. Yeah. And I only do one full call-out. Yeah, that means, you know, I whipped. It's not even close. Yeah, they're fighting for a second. Yeah, they just, like, he can go eat a cheeseburger tonight.

Right. And I also think it was because of the fact that why are we, we've seen enough. If anything, we're just going to pose him to death to see something worse. worse. This is the best that we've seen in a very long time. We're going to give him the respect, give him his flowers. It's game over next. 2017, I'd say close second. The intention behind it was the fact that I needed to really, 2017, man. It's like you said, Mr. Olympia, you have the opportunity to tie Schwarzenegger, man. And I saw Arnold at that at his Arnold Classic, and I asked them to, I was like, hey, can you come over here for a second?

After we're taking pictures. And because he came by my booth. And I was like, it would be an honor to be tied with you. That's just a short version. And he just looked at me and kind of gave me like the dad nod. And he hugged me. And I was like, okay. I was like, you got to make this happen now because, you know, no one's getting the nod.

And when you get the nod from the person that you highly respect, you have to do the work. So I went through absolute madness. in the gym to get ready for that one. So that's, I mean, that's what I ended with, right? Seven. So, and that number was just so special. So, yeah, that one was probably the most memorable. And it didn't hurt the fact that the rock was there announcing it.

Oh, that's right. You know, so that was pretty cool too. That's right. What did you do? Because there was, I mean, your body progressed throughout the years, but your back made this huge, like, transformation. It was not a bad body part, but then became one of the best. What was the difference in your training or what did you do that really that made the difference with your back training?

I think because you just brought like a hundred level of like thickness. Yeah. I think it was more of like the barbell rows. Not dumbbell rose, but more barbell like overhand and underhand barbell rows. That was really a strong point for me, especially the underhand ones because I felt like I could pull my elbows back so much deeper. Like the Yates row, basically. Yeah. And anything was good for him.

It was definitely good for me, right? So, and then just the volume. I was doing so much volume for back. I was training back and legs twice a week for those shows. Because I knew that those were areas that if I could get them up, I would be a force to be wrecking with. But a lot of rowing movements. Initially, when I got into bodybuilding, it was always like, oh, feels narrow.

I'm too narrow. Oh, so I was like, so I was thinking, well, I'll do width just from pull-ups and pull-downs and all that stuff. And I got some width off of that. But then I was like, if I can get round, like how I do in the chest and the arms and shoulders, I'll get round. If I get round here, oh, man, it's going to be really nutty. So. Did anybody coach you to really throw those rows in?

Was it another competitor or was it just you saying, okay, I know these are good for? I would probably say, I mean, watching those, you know, blood and Gus, Doreen-gay's videos and watching Ronnie the unbelievable video like that. I can't watch those and work out because I'll hurt myself. There you go. Right? Yeah, my, hey! Yeah, dude. You start going crazy.

But yeah, I'd say those videos, and then the old school Missouri Okabi videos of Battle for the Olympia. Oh, yeah. You know, watching Jay at, you know, Goldfamingo and, you know, doing back and stuff, saying he's going to chase Ronnie to go beat him. You know, it was always back. Yep. And that was the era, right?

If you didn't have a back, you weren't going to win the Olympia. So I just thought, well, then back it is. The other one would be, you were known. for your delts as well. Was that always a focus because of the narrow criticism or whatever? 100%. Because you got to create an illusion. So if you can cap your shoulders, you're just going to, and you're going to look great

in a quarter turns. Because a lot of people don't realize, like, when you train arms nonstop and you have these big biceps and then your triceps stick out, your rear delts are tiny. Yeah. And it hurts your most muscular. It really hurts. Like when you do a crab and you don't have that, it's not going to look. Right. So like you look at Kevin Lerone, like, I was just going to, I was just going to say, your, your delts remind me of his. Yeah. Like, and his are just some of the best. It's just phenomenal. Yeah. So I always looked at his videos and his magazines. So dealt training was, you know, I say like 2010 was the year that like I started really noticing a change. And that was also because of the fact that I stopped training arms once a week. I was training every other week. Because they were just two. It would just throw off the same.

cemetery is just throw off the balance. Honey and I talked about it. He had to coerce me big time to he doesn't want to train arms. I was just going to say, how did you convince yourself? Do you want to win or not? Do you trust your coach or not? And if I say yes, then that means be coachable.

And if the results aren't what you want, then I can always fire them. I mean, that's just the honest God truth, right? But it worked. And the quality that I had, like 2010 Arnold, I think is one of my best physiques as well. Like, that was nasty. But it was like, I was so full. And it was in the delts and the upper chest that really made that difference. What about the training?

What were the, did you do any specific extras? You said rear delts. I think a lot of people don't realize how big of a role the rear dealt plays in the roundness. You got to do that reverse peck deck. You got to do the face pulls. You got to do the dumbbells. You got to do everything. I would do them like even on back day too.

Just that add a little extra. Yeah, why not? You can keep them fuller, you know, just keep them activated. you know, behind the neck presses was something that I like to do as well. So that's rad because those, that was, that was, that was the way bodybuilders shoulder pressed in the 90s. Yes. Everybody did behind the neck. Yep.

Then it was like, these are dangerous. They're not good for you type of deal. Yeah, if you're doing like three plates. I mean, you know, or technique is bad. You know, the mobility for it. Talk about why you like them because when I do them, they feel totally different than a traditional. Yeah. I liked them because they were difficult because I knew I couldn't, you know,

know, throw up more than a plate at first. You know, doing for the front, you can throw two plates on there and, you know, yeah, it's heavy. Yeah. But you can get through it. Try doing that from the rear. Like you say, mobility. Yeah.

You realize there's a hole. There's a real gap here. Yeah. Yeah. Of strength. So if I could, if I can get stronger back there, then how my physique is going to look better. So doing those and also standing military presses, I was doing those a lot, too.

That's so great. Okay. So this is also great to hear because, uh, uh, especially with body. or when people talk about just hypertrophy training. Oh, it's the same thing, standing seated. It's not the same thing. It doesn't feel the same. There's way more stability involved.

I've always gotten better results from standing. I do with my clients because my clients weren't bodybuilders. They were just everyday people and it was more functional. Yes. But why would you, a pro bodybuilder, choose to do them standing? What did you notice from doing stuff? Well, we did those when I played basketball in college, you know, just push presses. Yeah.

Just because you got ready for like clean and jerk, you know. But then I saw Jay Cutler do it. And I trained with him one time. We were in Hawaii, actually. We were guest posing at Mr. Okabi's Hawaii Islands competition. I think Sean Ray runs that now. And he was like, let's go to the gym. And he's just lowing up the plates, man.

He's got two plates on here and just rah, rah. I was like, dude, let me try that. And then you realize, like, you're just not as strong as you think. but I thought oh core stability is going to be a big deal here my mid thoracic spine is aching from doing this low back is aching

legs are twitching like that means I don't there's a hole in this physique so how about I just start with a plate let's start with hell let's just start with 225s on each side and just really get the motion going this is what I'm supposed to feel okay throw a plate on and then just master that

that was something I feel like I did better than most people even people that compete is that I knew that I have to start somewhere and I need to master the smallest weight before I go up to the bigger weight. Do you think your experience as an athlete played a role in that because you're talking like... Yes, sounds like it. Yeah, because strength training is a skill. Exercises are all skills. They're all techniques. And athletes get that. You know when you play basketball, it's not about just going as hard as you can. You get practicing. It's about like you've got to perfect a skill. Right. Do you think that play?

a role in how you approach your workouts where you're like, okay, this is a skill. It's not just hit my delts. It's also. Do you think that played a role in that? I think so because inherently, like, what do you do when you're shooting hoops? Like you start like two feet away from the basket, take a step back, do the same thing. I mean, that's how I learn how to shoot, you know. And you also have to visualize it.

You know, I used to visualize the basket, the ball going through the basket. So you sit under, stand underneath it and you have your friend just. shoot it or you just shoot it, you know, you just go like that and watch it go through, through, through, through, through. And then that, now you know what that sounds like. You know what it's supposed to look like. And then you start making it happen. For me, it was like, okay, I actually had the fundamentals with shooting a basketball

with one hand and then take a step back, take a step back. Now you're shooting threes with one hand with no problem. Now this is just a guide hand. So, yeah, you start to get those reps and then you realize like, okay, if I'm doing alternating dumbbell curls, why don't just stay on one side and make sure that I get. all these done correctly because when I start doing this I start leaning and I start doing this why am I doing this why can I just stand like this and then as it gets heavier maybe I throw a little body English toward the end but and then just checking your insecurity man like I've done

videos where I'm like curling 35s and stuff and people are like oh man I could do that and I'm like yeah but you don't look like me yeah and they're like oh well I'm not on gear and I'm like okay I was in high school looking better than you. What are you talking about? You know, oh, we just got genetics. Like, no, dude, I'm willing to really focus on superannating the wrist, squeezing at the peak contraction and being able to hold it. That's real strength. And then also doing photo shoots earlier in my career back when photoshoes were a thing, you would have to, Chris Lund, I don't know if you remember Chris Lund, he would make us, I mean, hold those dumbbells, those barbells for like seconds. It felt like minutes, but they're like, you know, you had to hold that peak contraction.

This is the money shot. This is the best shot. And you're like, no. He's like, yes, yeah, the teeth. You know. And then I remember him telling me right before I turned pro, he says, if you train like that every so often, you're going to get really strong. I was like what?

He's holding the dumbbell at peak contractions. Just like what you did. So then I started throwing that into my routines. And like when I'm doing presses and just knowing, talking about my muscle connection. How are you going to have my muscle connection? When you're going super fast. Like, it's not going to happen. So I just, again, training by myself, knowing myself, not being afraid to go up a little bit

and not being concerned with what everybody else is doing. I still go through that. Like, I'll go to the gym tomorrow and I'll see somebody training and I'm like, man, I want to lift that 400 pound bench. And I'm like that, but you can't, dude. Like, that's not you. That's just not you, but you're at at 315. or you're right at 275.

How can you make that work for you? How does that feel for you? Oh, that feels really good. Do you feel any of your shoulders? Do you feel in any other places? No. Then how's your pump? Pumps way better than you here.

Well, then why are you tripping then? Why are you focusing on their race? Run yours. Yeah, I think that's so important. It's important for people to understand because it also reduces risk of injury. And again, you're treating the exercises like their skills, not just a way to, you know, make my quad sore or whatever.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, you don't want to be on gym fails, that's for sure. You don't want to be on that. And look, I've, luckily I've only had like a couple times where I've had like a twinge, you know, about benching or something like that. But I'm like, oh, man, like that could be like a partial tear or, um, but for me it was always like trying to train too hard or too heavy or so much volume toward the end of a prep because I'm probably a little too lean to be going that hard.

Yeah, that's when the risk is high because you train. That's where I noticed like, okay, you're taking a vassal constrictor with a vassal dilator and you're lean and you're pushing all this blend in this area. You don't think you're ever going to cramp up. You don't think that you're tearing anything. Dude, like, yeah, something's going to happen one day. Speaking of prep, now that gLPs are so widely available, how prevalent are they in pre-contests prep? Are bodyblowers using them like crazy? I've heard everyone's doing it.

I mean, when I say everyone, I mean, probably over 90% of people, I've heard a lot of guys talk about it. I mean, I have my opinions about it. I just think that... Well, does it feel to you? Because to me, when I look at bodybuilding before GLPs, the discipline's crazy. Right. But the diet disciplines are craziest. Like, you know, 12 weeks of diet and what you hear that these guys are eating and just the discipline around.

It's insane. to me it's almost like I mean cheating is the wrong word but it's like I mean I kind of feel what you're saying though It's like they don't suffer I guess You're not really suffering Yes I don't think they're willing to suffer

And I think the physiques are I think you're seeing more athletes now That can't peak for more than one event Because of it Say it's work ethic I also think it's because of what they're taking Interesting Why are we not seeing people peek

I was just going to ask you. You're a pro bodybuilder and you, for real, like, we're talking about open guys because the classic guys, I think, are doing really good job. Yeah. You know, Ms. Zique, I think they're doing a really good job. Pro bodybuilders carry, open class guys carry more muscle, right? But why are they off? Like, there's no freaking reason. Guys, Green Earth, like, why you should be like, I'm talking about, like, way off.

We're talking about, like, over 10%. Wow. Like, that's a lack of dedication and discipline. and oh, it's not, like if someone says, well, it's not about you like a discipline. It's like, well, then where's your discipline with how you end up saying, I'm going to take this drug then that you really don't need.

So when it comes to GOPs, I don't think anyone should do them because, so they're supposed to, what, slow things down, right? Like gastric emptying or whatever. But aren't you trying to eat over 3,500 calories a day? You go on GOPs, man. You ain't gonna... I've been on GOP.

Yeah. I don't want to eat no 3,500 calories. The food noise is like, uh-uh. Like, I don't want to eat anything. If anything, I want to throw up. Like, you know, so I don't see... So that's the thing. It's like, so I'm going to do a GOP1, but I'm going to take GHRP6.

That's stupid. But I've heard these things. I'm like, you're trying to overcomplicate a simple solution, which is simply do your cardio, go do your diet. don't throw and don't think that you're Ron and Coleman you can throw a Casey masterpiece on your freaking chicken and you know you can't throw barbecue sauce on your chicken and just because you're on insulin and all other stuff

you know what I'm saying you hear these stories right like everybody thinks they're Coleman or someone like that you know I had a friend that did that once I go to his house and I see a meal prep and I was like dude like how much barbecue sauce you put on this you're in off season right he's like no man I'm pre-contest I was like oh that's tasty yeah I was like how are you really dieting if that's what you're doing

In my opinion, because I know people will point to PED use, but with PED use, you still have to work out. You got to. You still got to lift. You got to make it work. Yeah. But there's like synthol, which is cheating. Totally. That's just putting oil in your muscle.

And we got a lot of that. Or at least a derivative. Derivative of that. And I almost feel like GLP is in the same category. I'm going to pre-contest, but I'm going to crush my appetite as a bodybuilder, right? I get the use for people who are obese. But I'm a bodybuilder. I got 12 weeks out.

I'm just going to use this red out, and I'm just going to kill my appetite. You're skipping one of the two main things that make it. Making a sport. Yeah, exactly. Right? Like the sport of bodybuilding is the lifting portion of it and the diet. Those are the two parts that make. Struggles to get.

Adam, how do you do it when all your friends are doing it? Yeah. Yeah. You know? But, hey, this guy's over there. But like you said, I think it's showing up on stage. I think it's the person who's willing to take those shortcuts, not do those things. It's probably showing up in other other factors.

I think so, too. I think that's why we're seeing no one would diet face anymore. No one sucked in No one sucked in in the face You got guys winning shows They still got fat faces It's because they're freaking inflamed Why are they inflamed?

Probably it ain't from the inflammatory foods Because we see them all eat on YouTube Right? It's probably from the compounds Whether it's too much of the PED side The antibiotics or it could be other things You throw a bunch of peptides at it This is still stuff that I get it

It works but I think majority of that stuff should be used more off-season or left out during contest prep because unless if you have a real injury, I don't really think you know or we have enough data to say like, oh, this can cause water retention. Like I know that taking growth hormone during prep, like at some point in time, you got to cut that out because you are going to hold water. It's also, I remember we had Dr. Seeds on a couple times and he's like one of the leading doctors and researchers.

And I think I know bodybuilder mentality and I respect it. They're the kamikazis. They figure this stuff out and they risk their lives. And I get it. But the mentality with bodybuilding is if some is good, more is better. And I remember Dr. Seed saying that that's not how you want to do with peptides. He's like, you're not trying to throw 15 peptides at yourself because the way they interact with the body, they're not going to work so well together. We're going to focus on this.

Do that for a while. Maybe it's mitochondrial health. Then we'll pull that out. Then we're going to work on this. Or maybe we'll work on this part of mitochondrial health. Then we pull that out. Then we work on this other part of mitochondrial health rather than throwing everything in kitchen sink at yourself.

I think that's the problem, like you said, I mean, they're just willing to, because they have access to it as well. I mean, look, like, we used to talk about the guys that used to travel over to Kuwait to go to oxygen gym and stuff like that because they had their best equipment.

Is that still happening? Is that still a big thing? I don't know. It was like a big thing for a while. Yeah, they come back in there. Crazy looking. Who was it that told us? They said, well, the difference is they just go there

and just eat sleep and train. Just, yeah. Well, there's that part. I mean, yeah. I'm not throwing a shade at that part, but they had a lot of things more readily available. Yeah, that's what it was. Like, you're straight pharmacy for all the money out there. Like, oh, if there was a drought in the States, dang out no drought of that.

You know, they had that on, you know, really available. But I agree. I think it should just come down to how dedicated can you be with your diet and training, reduce inflammation at all costs. And a lot of those compounds, like you said, you take more side of fat. come. And no one really has the data to say like, oh, yeah, you should take like 10 different PDs and, you know, like, you know, anabolic and you should do 10 freaking different peptizes. I would probably, now that I'm thinking about it, because I try to gamify this for myself, I'm like, if you were to, you know, do that, I'm like, well, I probably want to make sure that

I'm, I have zero issues with my gut microbiome. So I'm thinking of like, you know, maybe like some KVs, BPC, stuff like that. Especially in the offseason when you're eating a lot of food. Yeah, and like mitochondria health. Yeah. Because without that, your system's wrecked already. And then you're just throwing a bunch of stuff at it. It doesn't make sense.

I think that maybe, you know, IGF, you know, IGF1. I mean, I think that's pretty good. But I just think still it comes down to the grittiness of just training and just really getting after it and making sure that you know how to use food as your ally to go get how you want to look in it. And you have to be building hard, grainy muscle at some point. Like if you've been in this game for 10 plus years and you don't have any type of striations,

even in your off-season, there's a problem. There's an issue. Like, I know genetically there's probably some data that says that, yeah, you can train as hard as you want, but you might not have strided glutes or, or let's just say stride at quas or something like that, better than the next guy. But I still think you should have something.

Like, there should be a body part, especially like the delts and the chest and the arms. you should have, and I don't see that as much in the open division. I do see it in, like, lower divisions as far as, like, weight is concerned because they're not above, like, you know, 240, 250. And that's usually because maybe they are injecting some oil or whatever. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's just taking too much stuff. Yeah.

Like you said, I think that their body's inflamed. They're just taking so much stuff to just be there. Probably leading into the show, too, because I've asked guys, like, hey, so when do you start peeling this back and it kind of look at you like, what? Yeah, peel back. There's a feedback? At some point, you know, you have to think, like, that's oil. Like, it's still oil, right? With benzodia alcohol, whatever.

Yeah. It's an antibiotic compound. It needs to get through that. It needs to get through your system. And at least that's what I did. Yeah. Because I was a big stickler on skin texture. And being like skin and all that stuff, like you want to, like, I haven't managed, so

to speak. But I want to make sure that I'm dying away all the fat. And really, all I have left is just water. And I'll just peel it back. just enough, but it's because of the fact that I might have over-dieted just a little bit during prep so that we can do with the carb up more flawlessly without having to rely on blood pressure meds because I think through the diuretic usage on top of all that, that's where really people, you know, crap the bed because they're, they're thinking like, all right, well,

I'll just take, I'll just, you know, cut the water and I'll just take more pills. And I'm like, and then you're wondering why you're flat, you know, like, you're like, You're taking blood pressure mess, dude. Like your blood pressure's down here and you're trying to have it up here so you can get a pump. It's not going to work like that. So, again, you can't be throwing all this stuff into this machine and expected to be perfect. Yeah, I've heard some horror stories, some pre-contest horror stories. Did you ever have any leading up to a show?

We're like, man, I ain't feeling good. Never. The only time I had an issue was in 2009 when I had food poisoning. That was it. I had food poisoning after the meet the Olympians. I wasn't feeling right. And I had noticed, like, I was tracking my weight leading up to the show. I was like, man, you're losing, like, five pounds every other day.

And, like, what's going on? And I think I caught, like, a stomach bug. And then that Thursday night after meeting the Olympians, I was puking for, like, hours, dude. And I had the EMTs coming in my room. Like, early, early Friday morning. They didn't leave until, like, five, almost six in the morning. And I was not going to compete. And that's when I was like, okay, can I please?

God, please. You know, like, I mean, and the EMTs were like, you throw it one more time, we're taking you in. There's no show for you. We got it on fluids and your show's done. And I was like, I will hold that in. For real. I was like, I'm just not going to say anything. I'm just going to meditate.

And I'm just going to be like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. You know what I'm saying? Because I was like, yeah, I think that was a year after my first Mr. Olympia where I placed third. So I'm thinking, well, I have a chance to place top three again. it didn't work out that way. But yeah, that was the only real, I would say, as far as like an illness, yeah, that was the only year I ever had anything like that.

Do you think the judges ever got to see your best physique? I know almost every one of my pro buddies when we talk about peeking on stage, most all of us have said, I never brought the best. Like, best me was either hours later the next day, two days before, or do you feel like you've presented your best? I think, well, I could say no, but for probably a different reason. Okay. Is because I end up getting hernius. So if I had never got that, winning 10 Mr. Olympias would have not been a problem.

They would have seen something, I mean, they've already seen stuff from me that was never, I don't think will be duplicated in some way. You know, I'm the only Mr. Olympia to ever win seven consecutive in a two-day show format. No one's ever done that. And do you feel on all those, like when you hit stage, this was best you? No, I think like every year had his own story.

Right, right, because I feel like that's a common theme. You are the most winning guy, though, I've talked to. So I was really curious to ask you. So 11, yeah, that was like the best balance on Friday, Saturday. 12, I believe, like, it was a different physique because I was going after more density, knowing that I was only thinking about Kai. And he was a very dense bodybuilder. So I was like, well, my shape and condition is always going to carry me through.

But if I can train with more eccentric movements like he did and I can just get a little bit more thick in this like in the back, I'm going to be just fine. So that's what happened there. 2013, I basically took 2011 and 2012, had them merged together. And it was in perfect harmony. And that was fantastic. 2014. What happened, 2014? Oh, I ended up eating.

There was a recall on freaking almond butter. And I was eating it for three months. and didn't know it because I already had it stocked up in the house. So I ended up taking calcium, what's it called, magnesium, whatever, citrate? Yeah. And it created like a rock in my stomach. And I didn't realize like, oh, I need to now hydrate. Oh, man, this is not going to be good.

So I couldn't go to the bathroom. So I just had like, you know, water like on me in 2014. Thank goodness. Kai didn't look that great in Friday because I probably would have lost. Because by Saturday, I fixed it. But Friday I was like not well But that was also the year that he and I got into it In 2015 I came in more streamlined

Because I was so afraid that You know I was like I was getting too big And I was like and I'm honestly I'm listening to too many people That's when the internet was like Oh yeah you know he's got this you know Problem with his stomach and this and that And judges was like hey let's keep it together

So I was like all right bet 2015 I just came out there If you look at prejudging came out there With red pros and joins I just go like Now what That means I should win because I lost probably like a good eight pounds of muscle just to go make sure that I was shredded, shredded.

And the only person I was going against really at that time was Dexter and the late Sean Rodin. So I kind of picked the way I wanted to look based on the field. Yeah. Because in 2016, I told Honey, I was like, let's just go for broke. And that means Friday. Like, let's not wait until Saturday. Let's just go.

And that was like the hardest, like grainiest version of myself on Friday. And then 2017, you know, I thought we did really good. I think the problem is, again, that's when the hernia's really came into play in 2017. And in 2018, of course, you know, I tore my incisions, didn't really get to showcase how I wanted. But 2020, when I came back, I will say this, if I was to ever release the contest pictures for 2020, which everybody says that, oh, yeah, if I show you the pictures, man, listen, that year, even though, because I didn't do. 2019. If I would have came in right, we totally missed our mark. Like we did something stupid, you know, going like two weeks out. I would never advise it. I basically did a different diabetic than I ever did in my career. And, you know, it was my body, my choice type of thing.

You know, you can get advice, but I'm not going to blame anybody. I raised my hand to that. It just didn't work. And I came in more flat and not myself. My electrical light balance was completely off. And I felt like I had like two chins, you know, because I was running a different diuretic that time. And I wasn't getting the same type of food. And it was just recipe for disaster. But two weeks out, I was probably like, I think I was still like 260, like 22. Yeah. And hard. Like, and you know how I get hard. Like, grill marks in the glutes. Like, I was like to the point where I was having to eat, like, no BS, like everyday steak and eggs. And, and, and, and you know, Every day I had to have it with hash browns and a biscuit.

Like I'm not even playing. Like it wasn't because of, we handle GOP ones. It wasn't because of anything but just a basic ass fat burner, L. carnitine, coffee for, you know, that was the cardio mix. And literally just like I was running hard. Like my metabolism was on fire. And I think from the muscle maturity, like I learned as I got older because of real muscle, you needed to feed the muscle more.

Like you could get away. And that's probably why. Ronnie was able to eat the way he did because he had so much muscle. Like he had to feed it some extra calories, whereas other people, they don't have that quality of muscle to even substantiate that. But yeah, I don't think the judges really got to see the best version because I got hurt and then I missed my peak in 2020. But, man, those are those nightmares I'll probably have for the rest of the life.

You're the first person I've actually heard come to stage like with that mentality. That was really interesting to hear you talk about because most guys are just competing against themselves. They're trying to bring the better version. of them where you actually took into consideration, like, I'm going to be going up against this guy. Yeah, I know who I'm going against. Like, if I say, I'm going against Kai,

I got to, I got to assess what his strengths and weaknesses are. Okay, he's more dense. I don't need to be as big. I just need to be a better version of me in these particular areas. Yeah, I've never heard anyone else go at it like that. Because it's like fighting. Counterpunches are massive in a fight, right? What makes sense, but a guy like, I feel like,

only you could kind of get to do that because you know you're going to be in the top two. Everybody else is just like, I got to get better, I'll get better. I'll be glad if I make top 10 or whatever where you know, like,

I know I'm going to be battling for probably the top three spots. This is who I'm going after. This is how they're going to look. I already know I got them beat with fullness. Yeah. I think I knew like early on that I would be a bigger version of a Dexter Jackson

because he and I had like similar conditioning. So I always told myself, like if he's going to be the most condition, I got to be right there. Because I ain't going to be no J Cutler. I'm not structurally wide like that. I'm not be who I am. So I always looked at myself more like a combination of like flex,

Kevin and Chris, you know, Cormier, like somewhere around there. Yeah, that's a good. Let me, let me, like, let me look at those three physiques and pick and choose like where I feel like my physique lies. And really it was just conditioning. I was like, I can get round like them. I can have no weakness really like them.

I just got to make sure that when I'm, diet it down. I don't lose my legs because that's a big thing for me that I was like make sure because I did so much cardio like I was so cardio heavy that you know your legs got to survive you know and then just knowing that don't do anything that you consider 5% better getting 5% better because you'd be 20% worse so none of that crazy stuff you read online like oh yeah eat pie filling before the show and like have like three burgers and it's like yeah that might work for one show and then the next one you're going to look like ass you know so I kept a journal actually for every contest I kept a journal and I'm talking about a journal like not just food but like

even when I went to the bathroom oh wow and like how often was it number one or number two was it you know like all that I kept journals on all that and I would bring it to Vegas so I'd be there for like 10 days and I would give it to honey we'd look at it and we're like okay we're kind of ahead of schedule Oh yeah, what did we do last year? Okay, we did this. Okay, that didn't work last year. Let's do this. Yeah, yeah.

But at least we had kind of like a guide. Yeah. But, yeah. Who gave you the nickname? An old roommate. So, yeah, when? Is that college or when? Not like post college.

He was like, yeah, your nickname's the gift, man, because not because it's just the people are going to get messed up. They're going to think like, oh, you're calling yourself the gift. Like, you know, I'm like, no, no, no. It's more like everybody has one, but mine is, like, different because I'm going to be able to come from a different sport in basketball, going to be articulate, going to have a different type of swagger, and I'm going to connect with people differently through that.

And I just was like, bro, like that ain't going to sound right initially. We're just going to run with the most arrogant one, and we're just going to let people define it however they want because that just sounds too scientific. Yeah, yeah. But really that's what it is. It was really like, I have a gift. It's really like back in, what, 05,

what were bodybuilders considered? You know, freaks, you know, meatheads. Everything negative. Like, everything was negative. Yeah. And mine was more like, no, man, like I'm just taking the gift that I have. I'm cultivating it just like any superhero would. The first Matrix, he don't even know who he is.

Yeah. And the second one, he does. And the third one, he's ready to go dominate. Same with Luke Skywalker. Same thing. So it's like taking her gift. Now that I'm winning, now I get to tell people, you have a gift. You go find that niche.

Figure it out. learn it, face yourself over and over again, do the work, and then when it's your turn, you share it. How hard is it to transition? Because you're so meticulous as a pro competing for years, counting, you're journaling, your bowel movements. Yeah. Diet, you're training. Yeah. And then, no, no, no, no.

Like, how meticulous. I'd have people collect it, you know, like, Poo-in, right? Like, how they collect Putin stuff. You can't give out all the secrets. No. That's right. You go from tracking everything to regular life. Yeah.

What is that like? You know, it's so bad because now you're calling me out. I feel attacked. I mean, it's got to be a hard transition. It's going to be weird. Because you just be like, all right, I don't need that notebook anymore. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Hobbies? Did you pick up new hobbies or go back to hobbies? I was in depression for four and a half years. Four and a half, bro? Four and a half. That's tough. No shit? Yeah.

Wow. No BS, man. Well, you're so driven towards something. and then it's gone. I mean, it's normal to go through the four and a half. Four and a half, man. Yeah, it hit everything. You know, COVID didn't help me any well.

Oh, yeah, bad timing. Oh, yeah, bad timing. And then, you know, I was, I did the 2020 Olympia. I had already been finishing up our documentary, breaking Olympia. And then after that, you know, I was being managed by Danny Garcia at the time with the Garcia company's $7 because they were a part of the dock. And then my whole transition was to try to go into Hollywood. Well, I had to stay in shape past the Olympia.

So that late spring, I got a call to be in the, through Warner Brothers, to be in Black Adam. That never came into fruition. Still got paid, but didn't happen. But yet I'm still having to get lean. And, you know, I got down to like 226, which was like, obviously I ain't on nothing. You know, I'm on Peloton twice a day. And I'm like emaciated where people are like, dude, you're doing a show again? and I thought you retired.

And I was like, no, man. So I think after that, and I realized, like, the way I view it, the Hollywood thing wasn't going to pan out because I just was not going to take that shot. I was not going to take that jab, dude. And I think that that, and that's just my opinion, I just feel like that alone was probably making people feel nervous. So none of that really came into fruition in the other films that I was offered. I was like, it was overly sexualized. And I was like, I'm not going to be just some sex dude and, you know, just some. weirdo and you know

shout to anybody. Why do they do that to the bodybuilder guy? Yeah, why it is. Because they want to see. I mean, to their point, you got to think like some directors probably like, I'm getting to see like one of the best physiques of all time and I can't get them to take a shirt off. Yeah. I can't take your clothes off.

That's your thing. You know, it'd be like seeing like Pamela Anderson and you don't want to see her to take a close off like as a director. They're probably like, no, I want to see her in Baywatch. That's like your thing, right? You're a bodybuilder. Take your clothes off. Yeah. Like, why are you so weird about it. Wink, wink, why are you so weird about it? It's like, so I'm like, no, I want to be there for my artistic ability

and, you know. Did you see mics? Yeah. Hey, bro. Hey, listen, listen. You didn't warn us about that. Bro, I know, he's the home. He comes on the show. I know. Why you learn us? He comes on the show. We have a great company. He's a boy. And he's promoting it.

And like, hey, not one time you're going to give me a heads up on what I'm going to watch. No, he didn't tell us shit, bro. He didn't tell us nothing. He didn't say like, Hey, prepare yourself. No, nothing. He could have been like, hey, just a homie nod. Just off air, you go,

hey, just so you know. This is the role. But didn't say nothing. You seen a theater or at home? I saw that home. Thank God. Yeah. I'm watching it home.

Would you like pause? I watch it. Hey, no, I watch it first. These guys haven't watched it yet. And I'm like, you're just as bad as him. Bro. Because you didn't tell them.

Oh, I know. I told him. Oh, okay. I texted him right. I was like, you guys have to. You still made us watch it. I said, you have to watch this.

And I was like, because he, I can't believe he came on the show, talked all this whole time about it. And then even off air, never once gave us like a, like a plot. Ooh, boy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, good for him, man. I love him, man.

Him and Mona, you know. Oh, they're great. They are great. We got nothing but love for him. Oh, my gosh. But to not give us a heads up on like what. I just couldn't do it. So, yeah.

I couldn't either. I wouldn't be able to. Yeah, that really led into like a lot of like, where's my identity? Mm. Because I put it so much in the sports. my whole life from childhood to, you know, everybody, majority of people, their last high school football game, and that's it.

Yeah. Basketball game, that's it. For me, I got to go to college now. I wasn't no star or anything, but I still was on a team. You got to take me through, you take first before we move on, because I'm still stuck on the mic. And the fact that you, because I just, I never thought that, like, this is probably a thing that they poach.

Buck breaking. Look it up. Buck breaking. Like, they are like, no, we want to know. what we can get away with. And that is not something that is told to you. Fereaking. Referres to historical contemporary concept of sexual, brutalization, humiliating, black man.

Oh. Wow. Shit. Yeah, I does not even know this is a thing. Think about most black dudes and, I mean, you see on TV. Like, have they either worn a dress or they're out there being like a sex symbol? Like overly sexualized, not like something chill. Yeah.

I think that part of that, too, is their little, the satanic initiation. That's what I think. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Humiliation rituals. So, I think, yeah, yeah. Did they get away with? Are they offering good money even?

Because I'm sure. I wouldn't have known. Okay, so you didn't even entertain it. You didn't even entertain it. No, because when you're reading the scripting, it was, for all I know, the script that I was reading, to be complete honest, might have been for that same film. Because it sounded very, no, like, the first scene was like me in, like, a freaking truck driving to a gym. And I'm kind of like, just like staring off into the world. just like, again, and the girl's head pops up.

And it's like, really, that's the first, that's the first scene. Like, you know what I'm saying? And you know what's funny? I'll never forget it. Like, hey, prophecy, you. My wife and I are reading this. We're reading this. Like, like, I'm, and I shouldn't have been doing this, but, you know, you're texting

and driving and I'm reading the text while I'm driving. And she's reading it. And I was like, waiting for her response. And I was like, nah, text them back and say, that's just not what I'm looking for. I wanted to be like, you know, know a coach carter like denzil and like remember the titans you know the rock and like gridiron gang something like that you know what i'm saying where i'm helping out youth or something like that to pull from like my old DNA of like being in sport not that part good for you though because i bet

a lot of guys are want to be in hollywood so bad that they're tempted by that they're like hey i got to pay my dues i mean i get it like if you're an actor and that's all you and if that's your thing and and granted like i would say this you're an artist. That is not your identity. You're playing a different identity. Sure. So if you're,

if I'm an actor and they say, hey, Phil, you got to be an ex-murderer. And I'm like, hell no, you know, but if I'm not, I got to act.

Yeah. So they're probably thinking the same thing. This is just a role that I'm acting with, is that I'm not really that person. But my whole thing is, but what if I like it? How is I going to sit?

And really, do I need to have this conversation with my wife and be like, hey, like, I'm about to do this film. I'm going to have this love scene. This, and that. Are we cool? We don't fly like that. And we had this conversation like long before. So, you know, we just have some standards.

And it's not to, you know, poke at anybody else. I mean, they live their life. It was just not for me. Yeah. And I'm fortunate enough to have things to, quote, unquote, fall back on or fall into. And look, I would still entertain doing the film. it would just have to be something that I would like to do. Yeah.

That would, I think ethically and morally would make sense. Yeah. Because I'd also have to be good at what I'm, you know, portraying. So then if you guys are watching it, you can say, well, that's not Phil. That's Jake. Right. Or whatever. You know, that's whoever I'm playing.

Because otherwise, you guys would read right through that, you know. At this point, when you were going through this, like, identity thing and you're looking at Hollywood, which, by the way, kudos to you for, you know, sticking to your guns. At that point, was your faith strong like it is now or was that later? Did that come out? That was like the start. Okay. Because that was when we're living in Florida.

And I think being out there, man, I just felt like there was no like, although the state was free, you know, especially post-COVID and all that stuff. There was no faith. Yeah. You never saw that. Like there was no one I met at the gym or anything. It was like, oh, yeah, man, me and guys were about to go to Bible study or we're about to go to, you know, about to go do this, that, and the other. But I would hear that even when I was in Denver. I was just like, I'm fixated on this Olympia stuff.

So I just felt like everything when I was living when we're living in South Florida was like how much money you have, what kind of car you drive, like where are you going out to dinner than night. It was like flashy culture. And I'll be honest, like there was a point in time of my life where I was very flashy. But at this point, you know, some things got stripped away due to COVID, you know. So I started having a bigger faith walk just out of the necessity of wanting something bigger than myself. And then trying to figure out, okay, I'm clearly troubled because I've focused on the validation of the world. There I said it. Damn, damn, damn.

And then you're having the conflict of saying, but look what I got from it. Travel in a world, meeting people. becoming somebody and it's like, well, who you think got you through it? And who are you thinking is going to get you through this one now? So that's when you're on your knees screaming, hollering, like, you know, not knowing who you are, but just crying out saying, Lord, please, like, it ain't just the DMX on and Lord give me a sign. It's like, for real, like, tears in your eyes of like, I just need to know what it is that I'm supposed to be doing.

And I'll, and I'll just wait. I'll just wait. And next year you know, you know, better deals came and, you know, things that I really wanted to do came. And yeah, you know, you make a deal here to go bad. You know, that's just the way of being an entrepreneur. You know, it happens. But I started feeling like more discernment. And I'd say through that walk, I started realizing that the reason, even as I'm talking about it, like the gym, the gym served a different purpose back then.

And then having to start from zero and going through that depression, I had to recreate it for something for the next, for the next nine holes of this golf course. So now I'm at a point where, yeah, the depression was real to the point where, you know, I got three different types of sand out trophies in my house. That alone should make me happy, right? But no, because I had a hollow victory every one of them because I was able to leverage all my small and big trauma. All my pain went through that. people, I was probably the best at training angry. But it yielded something that the world wanted. Yeah.

That I believe God gave me an opportunity. So he gave me a platform, but now I get to use it for something else. And I just didn't know what that was. Now I feel like I'm learning like, no, you're the evidence, Phil. Like you were able to get through this. And if you're on the other side, healthy and strong and you can motivate people to live a better life and give a damn about their success. But then also enjoy it. because I can't remember like more than 10 instances where I was really enjoying.

I got a question for you. I don't know if this is a similar experience for you, but I always used to train angry. That's just how I worked out always as a kid. Angry, angry music, death metal, let's go. And the more angry the better and don't approach me when I'm working out. And then I become a Christian. And this wasn't what I doing.

This was just a gift. that was just a blessing. My music changed and I work out joyful now, which is very, it's better. I'm laughing because I'm like, yeah. Okay, so it's better. It's weird because I would have never said that before. It was like, I'm at war. And now I'm like smiling.

I'm singing in worship music and I'm joyful. Very different experience. It's a better experience. Are you finding any of that? Is it work out become more? I'm laughing because I have found that. Okay. I think when people have seen me, like the best compliment I've received is, Phil, you look so happy.

Oh, okay. And I think that's why. That's cool. Because they probably saw me. I mean, people live through YouTube, right? So they've seen like all these videos and stuff of like, Phil's this and that. And it's like, yeah, I was, dude. And I can't lie, man.

That ego got me through life. Yeah. That ego kept me alive in certain instances. That ego got me those titles, you know, through the pain and this and that. but I don't need him anymore. It's not a life or death situation. I don't have to live in fight or fight. And I do the same thing.

And as a matter of fact, I post a lot of Christian hip hop, you know, a lot of Christian rap. And it's funny because you have like your playlist. And I started looking through my playlist. And I'm like, I can't really vibe with that no more. And I started deleting some of those playlists. Isn't that wild? Yeah. It has been wild.

Like, so wait a minute. I used to, in that, you know, I used like spot. so I can see like the lyrics. I started reading them and I was like, it's preaching to you. This don't, no, but the other stuff.

That's what I mean. The old stuff will preach to you. I'm like, this is bad, bro. Like, what are we talking about? Like the things that we're saying.

And I'm thinking, yeah, I don't like that anymore. So when I hear like a bunch of, you know, like really nasty derogatory language, like foul language at the gyms, I literally have to make sure that my earbuds are like charged up,

ready to roll because I just don't vibe with it. And yeah, I listen to. praise and worship while I train. I'm happier when I train. People would probably, you know, they see me at the gym and I'm, I think when I'm training, I'm very stoic. So you don't know, I'm a very hard person to read. So they don't know if I'm approachable or not. And I'm like, no, no, come on over, take a picture, this and that. And they're like, are you sure? I'm like, I am not competing. I'm not getting ready. You know what I'm saying? Like, you want to get a

selfie? That's cool. I'm not getting ready for the Olympia anymore. But yeah, I do believe the things that we read the people who we hang out with, but most importantly, the things that we listen to. Yeah. That is huge. I had a weird experience the other day. I'm in here filming and I film the faith series, the one that you were on. And I had worship music on, but we have trainers with clients in here. And I'm very aware of the clients.

And I want to make sure this is their gym, not mine. Even though I'm doing my thing, this is your gym. Lady comes in and she's working out. I got my music on. And I'm like, hey, what do you like to listen to? This is your gym. Oh, I like hip-up. So I put on 90s hip-hop, okay?

Old gangster rap. And I'm working. I was working out before and then I was working out again with the music and I found I felt prideful. It totally changed how I felt and I'm like man music preaches to you. You got to you choose what you want preach to you but it changed my vibe. I was like before I was happy now I'm like look in the mirror like I'm the shit yeah I'm like oh oh that is very interesting. What are we doing? Yeah very very interesting and especially when you when you you you know just say it when you give your life to Christ right like you start saying like all right well I'm not going to do

the same things I was doing before, even though they served a purpose? Look, I'm not going to say that, you know, I'm friends. Like, I'm friendly with some of these major artists, like hip-hop artists. I know some of their DJs. I know some of their producers. They've sent me beats. They've sent me early releases. And I'm like, can you just send me the instrumentals, bro?

Like, you know, you're being nice. No, no, no, no, you're not trying to like, you know. crap on them or anything because this is their artistic stuff. So I'm like, hey, I just want to hear the beats. You know, man, I can see someone so singing on this. I can see this and I text them back. They're like, oh yeah, man, we do

come out next week and I hear it and I'm like, man, it just don't, it don't hit me the same. Do you ever feel like this is a question for you because of you had such a successful from a worldly sense, successful past, do you ever feel like Lott's wife or are you like,

don't turn around, don't look back, You're going to turn into a pillar. Do you ever find yourself in those moments where you're looking back kind of fondly? But they're like, wait a minute. I've been here before. Yeah. Or I can see my friends or I can see like the younger guys. And I'm like literally, don't touch that hot stove.

Yeah. You know, or feel like, I mean, you know, you're in the world of health and fitness, right? So you're going to see, you know, a lot of women. So you have to be very mindful. Can't have a loss of a heart and all this other stuff. You know, checking out chicks. all day. And then you have your friends being like, like back in the day, like, hey, man, look at

that. Now you got like, competitions like wellness and stuff and every girl's got glutes. You know, so you're like, okay, can I just appreciate someone's hard work without gawking? You know what I'm saying? And not be a creep, this and that. The answer is yes. It is just, or if you notice a pattern of how people approach you with certain conversations where you know that it could become very toxic, highly gossip-driven.

or even you know that one guy. He is the playboy of playboys. He's going to talk about women nonstop. And I'm just like, I'm out. Yeah. I just shut it down. I'm like, all right, man. I'm not really here for that.

You got anything else you want to talk about? And it's literally just being more bold about it. And they're like, what's your deal? I'm like, because I'm married and I'm trying to have kids. And I really don't care about that. And I've been there, done that, bro. And I'm this way. That was behind me.

I don't need to do that. Talk about your path to fatherhood right now. I mean, what's that? What's going through? Like, what are you thinking? Are you like excited, nervous? I mean, I'm going to be nervous when she comes home and says, hey, we're doing this. You know, we're pregnant.

But I think at my age now, like, you know, my first marriage, I was fathering her son at 12, yeah, like 11, 12 years old. So I know what that's like. But to hold your own. Yeah, an infant. An infant. I don't know what that's like. And especially in this day, that's something that I've realized now. I really need to know who I am

and I have to be building up I'm having to evolve more as a better human a better man. Because if I say oh yeah I want to have kids it's like but you have to be a better man to be a better father and a better husband. So shouldn't that be your goal feel? Shouldn't that be your eighth, ninth, tenth, sandow? You know what I'm saying?

Like you gave majority of your adult years to a sport that still loves you. loves you and all this other stuff, but man, having your own, like, that would be sick. And, you know, my wife and I've talked about it. If that's not God's will, like, we would probably try to, you know, foster a child, you know, like we would be willing to do that because we just have that in us. My wife is so awesome. Like, she definitely is, she deserves to be a mom.

Like, she is so cool. Like, like, she just knows how to take care of our house. Like, like, I could be traveling. I travel the world, right? And she's at home. Like, I could just imagine, like, what it would be like her, you know, taking care of a child if I'm traveling. You know, I could be doing my own form of ministry, you know,

like doing a meet and greets and actually having quality conversations and, you know, promoting sport and all that stuff while she's at home with our kids, you know, helping them be straight. And then when I come home, just I would love to have a son or a daughter, you know, I know it would be very difficult at times, but to run up and grab your leg. Oh, it's the best. It would probably get me teared up a lot, but I would be so, like, I've always heard this from all my guy friends.

You guys tell me different. It's like you have an extra gear now. Oh, yeah. So I would love to know what that's like because I know how protective I am over my family and also my friends. When you say you die for them and you do anything for them, it's like I know there would be another level. And I feel like completeness is far. legacy would be fulfilled if I can with the assistance of my wife and having some you know a tribe, you know, because it does take a village. I do know that. But it would just be so freaking dope just to

look at them. And even if they're acting like gremlins at the freaking movie theater, you know, acting a fool, right? They will. I would probably be like, yep, that's me. I can't even get mad. I'm going to disappoint them, but I'm like, hey, come here. Don't do that. You know? That's right. You said kids, too. It sounds like you want more than one. Well, if I could have two, I mean, why not? You know, I was raised as an only child.

So, you know, making friends, I wouldn't say it was difficult, but it was something that I wanted. You know, I always wanted to be around. And I was fortunate. Like, I had, you know, three friends that had a household of four boys. Wow. All three of them. All three of them. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Yeah. The Washington, the Burlinson. and the Wheeler's. So it's like, and one of the Burlissons, they played sports. Nathaniel Burleson.

Nate Burleson. Yeah, Nate. That was much childhood friend. I'm not kidding. Yeah, so I grew up with his, you know, around them, went to elementary school with Nate. I'm a year older than Nate.

His brother, Kevin and I, we were like, you know, good friends. His brother, Kevin actually, I believe he's still there. He's assistant coach for Detroit, rid of Pistons. And, yeah, man. So, I mean, imagine our sand lot,

you know, basketball games, football games, stuff. So I would love to have, you know, more than one. I would love to have a boy and a girl. Lord, help me if I have two girls. I just think of that. Sometimes I'm like, oh, boy. I got both. It was meant to be if so. I'm like, it's meant to be, but, man, Lord help me, man. Hey, I got, I'll pray for it. I got boys and careful. I'll be outnumbered. Hey, nothing melts. Nothing will melt you like a little daughter. I know. Nothing. I got both. I got boys and girls. Love them. And they're different.

But my daughter's melt me like... That's what I'm saying. Man, I'm like, screwed. I'm looking at Cherie right now. I'm like... A little her? Oh, all day. And I, you know, she's like, oh, my gosh.

You're going to have a girl because you were crazy and this. I was like, that's true, by the way. We have friends. We know, bro. I was like, she's going to be so statistical. I'm like, oops. If she's got both of us, oh my gosh, world better watch out. Because she has a...

man, she, I mean, Sheree's amazing, but just, you know, even aesthetically, I'm like, are they going to have muscles? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you know, because when I look at baby pictures of myself, I'm like, I had little calves and stuff. Oh, it will. And I'm like, man, if I got calves and legs, Sheree's got calves and she got glutes. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no. Dad, I want to go play volleyball.

No, no, here's a piano. Just be skinny. No, I don't want some kid coming over being like, hey, man, your daughter looking hot or whatever. I'll be like, oh my gosh. Like, I'm going to be having to stay swole until I'm like 65. 70, easy, right? You're going to crush your, being an older, I was an older dad. So being an older dad, like, you're just at a different place.

More mature. Way more mature. Even the way you talk about ego and everything you've been through. Like, imagine raising a kid at 20. Oh, impossible. And it hadn't to go through all that hospital. Yeah. So the fact that you've been through all of that and then having a kid, like, you'll be

patient, you'll be calm, you'll have so much more wisdom. Like, yeah. I think I was like that when I was married the first time and I was dealing with, you know, my stepson. And he was big into, oh, man, this is dating us all. He was big into, like, UFC. Yeah. So he liked GSP because, you know, he was the champion at the time. So I bought him at that DVD set of Rush Fit.

And he would, like, work out in his room. Now he's like a freaking black belt and Muay Thai. Oh, yeah? Yeah. So it's, like, neat to see. see how that turned out for him. But psychologically, like what these kids go through, you know, like in middle school and stuff like that.

And I got to experience that and kind of be that voice of reason. Like the reason why you got in trouble, son, is because this isn't this. The reason why we tell you not to do this is to protect you, not to make you hate us. You know, it's just. So those conversations, I think it would be quite easier because, yeah, again, I mean, I was like in my mid-30s during that time. and of course I have more life to me. I think it would be how do I navigate this world to where the kid knows that no matter what happens, they are always to come to me and wife.

They're always supposed to come to us because we love them and we cherish them and they don't have to look to these teachers or whatever first because, you know, you start seeing like how schools are. They get a hold of your kids. They can be poisoning your kids. And that's another reason why I want to still be just. still be jacked because I'm going to walking through that at school and be like, hey, this is my kid. You're going to be all right, bro. This is my kid. I don't care what you do with them.

It is scared of the hell. All the fall. I know where you go get your laundry. I know everything, man. Well, if this helps you at all, there's this really big study on adolescents and teenagers. And they were trying to look at what, because they've been depressed and anxious. And this is the first time in history when that generation is the most depressed and anxious. typically as people in middle age.

And what they found, the best predictor of good health, like no anxiety, like almost completely nullified the effects of social media and stuff, was, were the kids active in church? So if that gives you a little bit of, you know. So when the kids active in church and was dad active in the church, and it's like the kids were protected completely

from some of those issues. Well, you got to be able to do that. I mean, you know, I was raised Southern Baptist originally and, you know, my mom's from the deep south, so it was my dad. And that makes a lot of sense. I mean, there's certain things that have to be in order. Yeah.

A good community. Keep them off tech as long as you can. And keep them off tech. Prolong that as long as you can. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the beautiful thing is that I got friends like y'all. Be like, hey, what did y'all do?

Because, you know, it is interesting when you go out to dinner and you see everybody with the handhelds. Yeah, that's crazy. It's, you know, from. You know, you go to a Missional and start and still see someone on a date with a handheld. It's like, can we not just put that down and all just enjoy this little tiny piece of food and just enjoy each other's company? That's why I really like traveling overseas. I'll be going to Italy. I usually go to Italy once a year.

And to go to restaurants, you know, they eat late. They're just laughing. Yeah, culture's different. Three hours long conversations. They're hanging out. They're hanging out. And I'm like, no tech. No kid with the headphones on.

And I get it. Like some kids, you know, they have auditory issues, maybe a little bit of autism, Asperger's and stuff like that. Totally understand. But, yeah, like, shouldn't have to just throw them an iPad. Yeah.

They should learn, like, how to sit there and be quiet. You know? Yeah. I mean, I didn't have, you know, my mom didn't, I mean, we didn't have a Game Boy. and, you know, on a phone back then. But my mom wasn't just saying, like, here's some Legos. Like, go do this while I'm at, or we're at dinner.

Like, no, like, it was be quiet or just engaged in conversation or just sit there and eat your food and listen. I think we all should have a chance to just be. Connect. 100%. You're going to do great, dude. You're going to be great, yeah. Yeah. It'll be fun, man.

I know that. Well, good luck with that. I'll be praying for you, brother. Yeah, thank you. that happens and you're healthy. Oh, man, I would love to be able to, I just, like, you know, you see, and I really appreciate that you guys, you see, like, how Michael Hearn is with Titan, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I look at that. I was like, that would be so dope, you know, I have, like, certain plans and stuff. And just, again, I just want to take what my father did and what my stepdad did and what my mom's did and just be like, okay, this is how we can make this really fun and cool. and just the first sporting event. I'll never forget, like going to the first baseball game, you know, like stuff like that.

Like, I got to see, I got to see King Griffey Jr. hit his first home run. Oh, that's a cool. In the kingdom. Wow. In the kingdom. That's a cool memory. You know, my stepdad, he used to work for the NBC affiliate and he used to get tickets. So sick.

And we got to see it. And he would bring the radio to listen to the play by play. Wow. And that was back in the day, man. Dave Neyhouse, man. He used to be the announcer. and man belter right center of the field what a cool memory oh my gosh like i'm a huge griffie fan like

i love griffie's awesome best wing ever in my opinion there's the bonds probably him and bonds probably have the best i think griffy's prettier bonn's better numbers i was there for rick henderson's uh base dealing record oh dude that's insane it was insane yeah he's one of my favorites all time yeah what a what a great era of athletes i know we had the best dude they would all be like people would obviously say that these guys are using. They'd be like, he can't be that fast, like a Bo Jackson.

They'd be like, no way. Like, people wouldn't understand. What's crazy about him was how effortless it was. Like, he didn't even care. I know. How do you break a bat like that? You hear me? I don't know. I'm, like, I'm frustrated.

I've listened to a lot of his interviews and so of that. And he just talks about, like, he talks about, too, like, he wouldn't even go in the weight room. He'd go in and then he would sneak out the back and not lift. Like, I mean, he just was a freak of nature. Just freaks, dude. Yeah. It was natural.

You guys ever wonder where the next one of those is? Oh, right here, dude, right here? Yeah. That's, this is, I think, the next freak athlete that we're watching right now to see him at 21 years old. Yeah. The handling, the way he's handling the ball. The handle is. Oh, the way he's handling.

I mean, the last two games, he broke back-to-back records. He had 12 blocks in one game in a playoff. He just had 35 points, 12 rebounds, like five blocks. They have no answer for him. answer. He's just, he can do it all. He can shoot. He can defend. He can, I mean, dribble. He can, yeah, he's, and he's humble. He's like, good teammate. Who would you want to see, like, as far as, like, the current guys that are playing hoop, like, really break out, like, as far as, like. He's probably on the, I'm the most pro, him. Um, I like, I like Shay's game. I mean, what we're seeing right now with

Otani, too, is, is crazy. That's crazy. First time we ever seen a pitcher that hits home runs like that so that's you know what i'd like to see is freaking zion it's he's a he's a sad story dude like he had so much yeah i just want to see like i would love to see this guy really hunker down i i think it's i think his time has passed i think he he i mean if he were to come back and turn it around now it would be unbelievable because what is he now in his like fourth year oh no he's further than that he's like oh because he didn't really play yeah he's this is like year five or six now with him and he's just like he's like year five or six now with him and he's just never completes a full season.

And yeah, no, I would have, he was so crazy in college. Everyone thought he was going to be the next freakish thing to watch. For sure. Yeah, yeah. I look at him, I'm like, oh, man, why can't these guys just really hire like one of us? I know. That's the part that trips trips me out. I mean, we've had some great, you know, athletic coaches on here.

But for the most part, a lot of people think that because you're a pro athlete, you have like these great coaches like a lot of them are network they're worse yeah it's like some homie they went to school with and that just like one one certification he's just and like the stuff they're doing i think we know all the best coaches yeah five of them yeah yeah put them on payroll and then they don't get the work out with like the actual strength and conditioning coach of the team they'll bring in their own guy and because they all want to be their own man yeah you know you can't but then again you can't pay someone 20 plus million and think that he's not going to tell you to go F off.

He's going to be like, well, then make me. He's coming or I'm not coming. Yeah, I look at that. I'm like, how are these guys not, like, we can get a whole other conversation at a time about load management and all that's all the crap, but like I just don't understand. I'll never get it as to why you're being paid

that much money and you are having soft tissue injuries nonstop. It's so, so, sure. Well, we see the ones that do get it. And actually, I mean, you talk about people like LeBron, The reason why he's been able to go for as long as he has, he's spending a million dollars a year on recovery alone. And like those guys have those ones have figured Tom Brady. I mean,

there's a few that have figured it out and you have got the right people in their corner. But the bulk of them don't. The bulk of them, like you said. I'd love to see someone play an 82 game season though. I know. With the technology that they have today, I don't see why you couldn't.

And I think it's selective. And I think part of it is the fact that they're like, well, I can gamify the system. and what are they going to do? You got to adjust the training once you get there, man. You can preserve. Yeah, well, they like long term.

Yeah, I can preserve my career and still get it. And they're still willing to pay me 10 plus million if I don't go as hard. Well, that's one of the biggest controversies right now in basketball is the guy's taking so many games off. And you have some kid who bought tickets a month in advance to come see his superstar player. I've seen it. I've seen it, bro. I know. It's unfortunate. It's fpped up, dude.

It's like, I just think. I think that's the only reason why I always stick to, like, the Jordan era as being, like, the best is because those guys did play in as many games as possible. And, yeah, their careers might have got cut short. But with today's technology and everything, why wouldn't you want to play? I don't know. Maybe because I never played in college, really, you know, like I had hoped. But I can only imagine, like, it would be like bodybuilding, like, okay, you know, I got a little bit of flag for now. not doing multiple shows throughout the year, but I was like, well, I'm already doing like the Arnold and the Olympia. I'd tell you what, if that money at the Arnold was, you know, where it was, you know, and the Olympia was, I would do both those shows.

How much is that scale, by the way? I don't, I don't follow where, where it was 20 years ago, where it is now. So the Arnold back in the day was like 100 grand, plus it was really cool, though. They had the, the check. You got a H-2 Hummer. Okay. And a custom AP. watch. Oh, I didn't know that. So, like, when Jay Cudler won, he would get all three, which I thought was dope. You know, you get a car. Yeah, that's pretty sick.

And then eventually people were like, I don't want the car. I just want the cash. You know, it's like, yeah, but dude, like you go from that to like, like, they're going to give you cash for like 35 grand. Yeah. Why I do that? Yeah. Just get the car and drive it and wrap it.

Right. You know, do something else with it. Right. The Olympia, at the same time, I remember seeing like, Ronnie would win the Olympia. They would have like a catalite escalate, you know, you know, SUV, you know, on the Olympia stage, you know, to go win. So it was usually just like 100,000.

Then it went, then Arnold stayed at like 130 for years. Yeah. Got it to 130K. Then with no car, no watch, just a check. The Olympia went up from 100 to 110 to 120. I think it went to like 200. And then by the time I won, I think it was like 250. So I wanted to believe, I think the first time I wanted it was either 200 or 250.

Then it went to 300 to 400. And then it stayed there. And then most recently, Arnold was like, I don't want to play this game anymore. I honored this whole agreement because of Joe and Ben to keep the Arnold prize money below the Olympia. And then he said, screw it, I'm just going to do what I want. I'll break the rules.

I'm going to do, I think he said he was going to do 500,000. And that's when the Olympia was like, well, we'll do 600,000. Then Arnold's like, do you know who I am? 750. Wow. I didn't realize it shot up that high. Arnold this year was $750,000. Andrew Jack won that.

And then he went over to the Arnold UK and picked up another $250. So he made a million in a month. Wow. So imagine Ronnie Coleman. Basically, all the sandals that he won was probably still less than what someone won in one month.

Wow. So it's changed dramatically. That's crazy. I'm happy that the athletes have the opportunity. No, totally. Exactly. But I think now it's like, you know, you got that. I didn't know.

I think the Pittsburgh Pro is like $100,000. I don't know that. Pittsburgh Pro is now, yeah, $100,000. So you got multiple shows and six figures. And I think if they would have had to, I don't know if they're having to do Dubai Pro this year, but I believe that's $100,000 as well. So, I mean, man, like, I see some guys not even want to leave the house to go compete. And then they're like, well, I'm not going to win.

So I'm like, dude, second place is still. You know, like Brandon Curry went to the Arnold, UK. I think he was like fifth or six at the Arnold, Ohio, picked up second place, still walked out with over 100 grand. Yeah. Wow. I'm like at his age in this sport, like he's still able to, you know, place high, walk away from some good cash price. So I think I'm assuming the Olympia is going to probably go up in prize money too because they're not, you know, it's going to be a game now. Yeah. Eventually it'll hit a million, I think.

Wow. Which, what a turn on that. Big time. Yeah. I mean, and that's just for the open division. The other categories, I mean, the prize money does go up, but not as significant. Did you keep post all this? Did you keep a lot of sponsors?

Do you still get good revenue from that? Are you done with a lot of sponsorships? A lot of the sponsorships are done. They're much different. Yeah. You know, because before, you know, I was doing like the supplement stuff. Yeah. Now I'm doing my own brand that will be launching this summer.

Like we had like a rebrand. So I'll be doing that. And, you know, I didn't have a clothing sponsor when I was getting ready for Olympias back then, but now I do. I'm with Young L.A. Oh, cool. I was previously with Jim Shark now and what Young L.A. I've been with them since the beginning of this year. And then just the partnership deals are obviously different nowadays. Yeah. It's just some of its data driven, some of its legacy driven, some of us a little bit of both. Yeah. You know, we definitely didn't have, you know, like, telehealth back then.

Yeah, yeah. You know, so there's the different component, you know, energy drink campaigns weren't going around back then. Those are things that I'm. The thing for me is like I always am very particular as to who I want to partner with. Because of what I build as a reputation, you know, reputation, you know, in my legacy within the sport of bodybuilding. You don't just, just because someone is willing to pay doesn't mean that it's good money long term. And some of the stuff that you would want to do, maybe that only should be short term because maybe it's just like a cool ad campaign, you know, like it could just be something fun. Whereas other ones you think, well, this should be for at least two years. years, but then some companies are like, well, we only want like six months to 12 months because

they're like, again, they're looking at data-driven things. So sometimes I just take myself out the equation and say, how about I just not do it at all and just focus on other things. Like I do public speaking, you know, I work with different sports teams, both, you know, amateur and none professional right now. But some, I always wanted to say college is professional, but it pretty much is. Yeah, you know, it's kind of high and I'll go on. Yeah. So I guess I work with professionals, you know, so I've done that. So I really. So I really do like working with, you know, high school and some collegiate sports programs because of the NIL deals.

Yeah. Because that's a different layer, you know, of pressure. Got a 17-year-old, 18-year-old kid being told that they're all-world and they're going to get all-world money. But their kids. But their kids and their parents are really driving those decisions. And if the kid isn't getting a certain amount of playing time or if the kid is playing well enough to go to a different school, they're going to hit that portal. It's crazy what happens. And it's not because of what the kid wants to do is because the parents want them.

Because now imagine the mom, the dad, if they're together, if they're not together, the mom may say or the dad may say, you know, you got to take after your younger brothers and sisters, you know. You know, this is generational wealth. Like this is why we, you know, took each of those AAU tournaments and stuff like that. You don't think these parents are talking to the kids like that? Oh, of course. They are ruthless. Have you heard of some of these crazy portal stories of like a whole team getting like wiped out in the summer? and stuff like that.

Insane. You got your hands in so many things. What's most consistent revenue for you and what's your favorite to do? My favorite is probably coaching, you know, and I do a lot of it privately. I get DM, you know, people say,

hey, would you like to be a keynote speaker here or there? And then after I do that, people will want to hire me to do other things. Oh, cool. That's always been something that I enjoy because it doesn't have to be, heavily broadcast it, but it could be a lot more intimate. I plan on doing more of that.

Actually, I'm launching a fitness app here pretty soon. So that'll enable more people to get reps with me. Yeah. You know, because a lot of people have hit me up and say, like, hey, how do you deal with performance anxiety? How do you go from being amateur to pro? And how do you go from pro to being a good one? And how do you even deal with, like, contracts and stuff within this crazy sport?

Yeah. You know, a lot of them don't even know the pure structure of filing LLC. in gaining trademarks. You know, having your own IP is a huge thing that a lot of people in our industry do not have. They'll say, oh, well, I got a website or I've got a blue checkmark. It's like, dude, you don't even own your freaking name.

Yep. And you don't even have a war fund just in case someone wants to misrepresent it. So, you know, I really like to focus on those things because those things are universal. But yeah, that and some other things I'll be able to launch here pretty soon. So that's it for right now. But yeah,

to be continued. Yeah. All right. Exciting. Yeah. Good stuff, man. Awesome conversation again, bro. Oh, thank you. Appreciate you coming on, man. Oh, of course. Anytime, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I saw you text, I was like, I was about to screw with you and be like, no, man. I didn't have fun last time. Too busy. I didn't show up, you know? Like, you really ruined it. Yeah, it was like such a jerk, man. Like, he canceled last minute. No, no, that was great. I, I,

I hope I can do it again, man. We will. I tell you what, that's why I'm curious about the business stuff. So when you have a big launch, we'd love to have you on and help kick it off, dude. I appreciate it. Of course.

You got to get my number, dude. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I'll for sure be sending you guys some stuff. All right. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

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