Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2936: If You Love Working Out, You Probably Need to Hear This

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

MAPS BOGO: https://mapsbogo.com Buy one get one free — mix and match any of the top 10 most popular programs (Anabolic, Aesthetic, Performance, 15 Minutes, Anywhere, Symmetry, Starter, Muscle Mommy, Powerlift, 40+).   In this episode the guys break down 5 signs that fitness fanatics specifically need to eat more and move less — feeling chronically worn out, sacrificing more important things for workouts and diet, staying super lean all the time with no flexibility, not improving any objective performance metric in a long time, and workouts no longer being joyful. They also get into Adam's new solo cooking ritual using Our Place pans and why it turned from a chore into something he looks forward to, Corinne's update as a top Mind Pump trainer who has finally committed to adding muscle after years of staying chronically lean, Justin's incredible weekend experience at a multi-day program, Adam getting back together with Katrina after a rough week of stress and house prep, Justin's son Everett watching the Odyssey movie and losing his mind over it, and Sal having another ghost experience at home. Then they coach live callers submitted through mplivecaller.com.   SPONSORS   Our Place (cookware): https://fromourplace.com Code: MINDPUMP for 10% off sitewide. Forever chemical free, titanium nonstick, 100-day trial with free returns. Adam discusses using the Always Pan for his solo mushroom cooking sessions.   Kion (essential amino acids): https://getkion.com/mindpump 20% off automatically applied at checkout. High leucine EAA formula — clinically shown to stimulate muscle protein synthesis between meals without extra calories or digestion load.   Troscriptions: https://troscriptions.com/MINDPUMP Code: MINDPUMP for 10% off first order. Medical grade buccal supplements.   LINKS   Submit a live caller question: https://mplivecaller.com Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   SPOTIFY TIMESTAMPS   0:00 - Intro 2:10 - 5 signs fitness fanatics need to eat more and move less 3:51 - Sign 1: You are chronically worn out and never fully recovering 9:28 - Sign 2: You sacrifice more important things for workouts and diet 15:43 - Sign 3: You are super lean all the time with zero flexibility 19:02 - Sign 4: You have not improved objective performance in a long time 21:28 - Sign 5: Your workouts are no longer joyful — it is a grind 23:59 - Adam's solo cooking ritual with Our Place pans — how a chore became something he loves 28:29 - Corinne's update — top Mind Pump trainer finally committing to building muscle after years of staying too lean 33:53 - Justin's incredible multi-day weekend program experience and the inflammation difference it made 41:13 - Adam and Katrina's stressful week, house back on the market and getting back on the same page 45:14 - Justin's son Everett watches the Odyssey and loses his mind — the hidden gem movie debate 47:37 - Sal has another ghost experience at home 1:05:45 - Caller: Paul (Ontario) — fitness fanatic, overtrained, needs to dial back and trust the process 1:14:48 - Caller: Ryan (Ohio) — 36-year-old getting married in July, wants fat loss, needs a strength-first approach 1:37:35 - Caller: Melissa (Nebraska) — 43-year-old returning to fitness, metabolism needs rebuilding, gets reverse diet strategy 1:53:54 - Caller: Meredith (Texas) — long time listener, complex history, gets individualized programming advice  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump. Mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded health, fitness, and entertainment podcast in the history of the world. This is mind pump in today's episode. Callers called in. We got to coach them live on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 67 minutes long.

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That's the formula if you want to get in shape. Here's what we say. Many of you need to eat more and move less. Here are the signs that this is what's going to actually improve your health and fitness. Do the opposite. Eat more. Move less. Let's go.

Can't wait for these comments. Yeah. These are great. No, so this is for, I would be clear, right? This is not for the person that doesn't work out and who eats kind of, you know, whatever they want. eats a lot of heavily processed foods and let's just say garbage, right? This is for the fitness fanatics. This is for the person that's super into fitness, that's super consistent.

Oftentimes, these are callers, right? Oftentimes we'll start the show. We'll have callers call in and they'll tell us about their issues and why they're not progressing or what is it? Why can I not progress? We're on plateauing. And our advice revolves, I mean, generally around this. Oftentimes we tell people, we get to eat more and you've got to move less.

and when they listen to us, they come back 30 days, 6 days later, and they're like, I can't believe that worked. I can't believe eating more and moving less, you know, again, generally speaking, really is what got me to a better place in fitness. And so these are the people that we're talking to and you know who you are if you're listening right now.

Yeah, and I mean, we've had different clients that fit that category. And like I would say it's more like a perma cut. It's almost to the point where, you know, they're just always so conscious about, trying to keep their weight at a certain amount, to make sure that their cardio is there, to make sure that they're eating underneath and playing that calorie game for so long.

And then to get them to eat is like transformative. Totally. One of the last clips that Josh had me shoot for Instagram, it's going right now. It's performing pretty good. It's similar topic, right? Like if you're in a plateau, you're not getting any stronger.

or what are some of the things? And basically my point of that clip was, if you're listening to this clip, that means you're getting served up fitness content, which means you're probably into, hardcore into fitness. And there's a good chance. Reducing your volume,

reducing your training will give you more results. And I think this is very true for the fitness fanatic or the person who has been working out for a decade and they're consistent as hell. And they love to train. not so much for the general pop. And so I think that's the clear message here is that like, okay, yes, when we're talking to general population, most people need to move more, probably eat less.

But when you talk about people that have been consistently working out and they are health conscious and they train very consistently, many of them love to train four, five, six times a week, sometimes seven, some double days. those people would benefit from moving less and eating more. Totally. Because what has happened is they are just constantly breaking down and caught in that recovery trap you talk about where they're never adapting and growing and building. They're constantly, their body is on defense all the time because they're constantly hammering it. Yeah, this is also a word of caution for beginners because oftentimes what a beginner will do, right, somebody who is

moving from a place of I don't exercise, I eat whatever I want, and suddenly I'm very motivated. I want to get into shape. And then they make the mistake of going too hard, doing too much, eating too little, right? So they go away, they take the pendulum and they swing it way in the other direction and they run into a wall. They initially get some good results and then they find themselves in a place where they feel like they're doing so much work, they're eating so little, nothing else is happening, and then they eventually fall off because it's like, this totally isn't worth it.

So there's a few signs that we're going to talk about today. And there's more than the ones that we're going to spell out today. But these are the big ones that this may be you, that if you have one or more of these signs, if they resonate with you, eating more and moving less may just be the formula that you need. And here's the first one. You're worn out. You're just worn out. You work out all the time.

You watch what you eat. And yet the only time you have energy seems to be for your workout. You show up for your workout. you take your pre-workout, your caffeine or whatever, you do your thing, you get that cortisol spike. By the way, cortisol is an essential hormone. You need it. But if you're constantly redlining and under eating, more cortisol in the short term can feel good because cortisol will initially give you a little boost of energy. So this is the person who's like, I got no energy for the rest of the day.

I feel tired. I feel burnt. I'm always sore. But then I do that hardcore workout class. No, this is the one I love. And suddenly I feel great. And that's why I do it. It makes me feel good.

But if you were being honest with yourself, you really only have energy for your workouts. You really only have energy for that. And everything else kind of feels like you need more. You're kind of dragging. You're worn out. By the way, as an experienced coach, I hate to say this. This is very true. And I know Adam and Jessen will agree with me.

Oftentimes we'll get callers that will call in. And when they call in, they call in and we can see them. It's like a Zoom call. Oftentimes, by looking at their face. You can tell. Just by looking at their face, I could tell you're overdoing it. You've got that worn out look. You've got that worn out fitness look where your face shows an age older than you actually are,

even though you're consistent with your workouts. Even though you're eating, quote, unquote, in a perfect way, you've got that worn out look. Now, the average person can't necessarily pick this up, but as an experienced coach, just because I've worked with so many people, oftentimes I see it. I see the person. In fact, I can see this in the gym. I'll go work out with jam. I just tell a lot.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, I was going to say because even, too, you're watching your client as they're exerting themselves. And you can know right away if they're sort of like tunnel vision or if they're kind of hitting a wall or, you know, there's a lot that you could receive information wise from just looking at their eyes. Yeah.

I'm glad you went the worn out direction instead of focusing on the constantly sore one because that can be a signal too, right? When someone's always sore all time. Totally. actually find it more common that the person who trains, you know, five, six days a week consistently and has been for a real long time, they don't get sore anymore. They've gotten to a point where their body has adapted to this, just getting beat up like that all the time. But it's not changing. It's not growing. They're not seeing body composition change. And so, and they think because they're not constantly sore that, oh, they're not doing enough. And I could have pushed more. And so I like that

you went to one hour because one signal can be like for sure especially my beginners if you're a beginner and you're you're constantly habitually sore there's a good chance that you're just you're overreaching you need to scale back intensity but if you're somebody who's been training for years consistently many times you're not getting sore hardly at all and so you think that it's a problem with they never get sore yes so you think it's like I need more volume I need more intensity I could have pushed further because I didn't even get sore I'm so glad he said that dude because I totally forgot about that. You know, I had an experience with that years ago where years ago, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to work out like they did in the 70s. I'm going to do twice

a day workouts. This was crazy. It's crazy. It's like double split routine, doing all this stuff. And I remember by week two or three, I wasn't getting sore anymore. And I thought, oh, this is a good thing. But we just worn out. I was just destroyed. And I just had no energy throughout the day except for those stupid workouts. Like, that's all my energy went into those workouts. 100% right. I just wasn't sore. And I thought that was a good thing. I thought that meant, oh, I actually think that's probably more common.

I think the overly sore is more common to a beginner who's overreaching and doing too much. I think the advanced person who's been lifting for a long time, they correlate, oh, I'm never sore. So I'm definitely not pushing too much. That's right. And so they think they're not, but they're already way beyond too much. and that's why their body is not seeing change anymore and actually taking that person and scaling them back to the advice you started this with

and moving less or training less and eating more will result in better results. Totally. Here's the next thing. And this you really have to do some self-examining. If you find yourself sacrificing more important things for your workout and your diet, and this is a common thing. Now, sacrifice is important.

Like if you live a healthy life, there are things you're going to have, you are going to have to live differently. That's just the fact, right? If you follow the world, the world's default is poor health. So I'm not talking about living differently. What I'm talking about is you miss birthdays, you miss dinners, you skip certain things or certain holidays or you don't celebrate certain holidays. Maybe you show up, but you don't celebrate the holiday with other people because it's off my diet. Or no, oh my gosh, if I miss my. In fact, I'm going to organize this vacation that was me around my workouts or this event around my workouts because, God forbid, I miss a single workout or God forbid I eat a meal off my meal plant or I don't track the macros.

This may be, in fact, this may be a question you ask the people closest to you. Hey, am I inflexible? Yes. With my diet and exercise? Are you being annoying? Yeah. I'll say yes. Yeah, like this is this, this is a problem, by the way.

You have made your workouts a stress. You have made your diet a stress. You're not really living your life. Or should I say your workouts and your diet are not improving the quality of your life. They've become your life. They were never designed to become your life. Exercise and diet were made or when they're, should I say, when they're done properly, improve the quality of your life.

They don't become your life. Don't you feel like this is one of the really tough ones for people to see? Totally. You know, because becoming this person who has, become so consistent and track your food and do all the things. They've obviously seen some of the benefits of that, right? You're organized, your meals are prepped. You could argue it saves me money.

I'm healthier because of that. I stay in great shape because of that. And so this is a tough one, I think, to get somebody to kind of let the reins go a little bit. Well, it masquerades is discipline. Well, yeah, I think it also creates this like me versus everyone else. Totally. You know, like you kind of corner yourself as like, well, I'm, you know, I'm doing all the right things and you guys just need to get on board. And then you kind of start isolating yourself from, you know, instead of really leading as an example and like, you know, immersing yourself with your friends and family and whatnot.

But yeah, I see that a lot where people just get really into it and then just kind of push everybody else. I always wonder if like if I would have experienced the whole competing thing earlier in my life versus later if it would have had a. different, like, outcome from it, meaning, uh, like, I was so ready to be done with that. I mean, I was, yeah, there was, there was no, like, new, this is my identity and, and, like, I remember it. You hated it. I hated it. In fact, you hated being the guy on the show. Yeah, I hated it. And it could not wait to be. Watching you flex. Yeah. Oh, I was so over all of it and didn't like it. And yet, absolutely saw lots of benefits from it. I mean, obviously I was in the best shape of my life.

The strongest I was. I looked the best. There was value in it. Oh, yeah. I could go down the list of all these things that I could see could become very addictive. But, and I think, and that's why I'm wondering, I was like, man, maybe if it was like, if I was 25 and I went through that process versus into my 30s, would I have experienced that different?

Would I, would I become more of a person who identified as that? Oh. Is what I'm saying. Yeah. Because I went into it with a very. different. You already had a pretty strong identity going into it. You knew why you were going to do it, do it. It wasn't like, I'm going to be this bodybuilder. It was more like, this is a great way to build the social platform to work and fitness. It's a great way to show social proof that I know what I'm

doing. You kind of already knew who you were, but I could see in your 20s, I don't know, you know, you get my 20s. You know, like it becomes, yeah, something everybody's sort of acknowledging, like, wow, that's so impressive and it really builds up your ego. Right. Is there, that's what I'm wondering. Is there a type of. Is there a type of avatar that that tends to fall into this trap. Force. Like a person who gets all that admiration for the first time in their life. Like, wow, they've never, they receive all these compliments.

Now this is who I am. They are the most confident they've ever been because they feel really good about their body. Like, you know, and that's what I mean is like maybe when I was going through more of an impressionable time of my life and then that was formed, it would have been a harder pull because it's hard sometimes. I know, I can talk about this because I've had so many clients. And so I can relate to the clients and talk about it. But I didn't, I didn't experience this personally.

Personally, it was, couldn't wait to not do all the things. Well, you know what's interesting for me because I've gone through lots of cycles of this process. This can still be a struggle for me. But it's not like it used to be. I'm definitely better, much more self-aware around it. But it still can become, can be a struggle for me. But one of the ways that I noticed or one of the differences that I noticed for myself with this was when I used to go out with friends and family, what people used to point out or or mention was just how discipline.

and strict I was when we would go out or do things. They noticed that when we'd order food or we'd go to the movies or it was a holiday, how Sal ate specifically a way and didn't miss workouts. And I identify with that. Like, it's cool. Yeah. You're going to point out the fact that I don't eat candy at the movies. You're going to point out the fact that at the celebration, I'm not doing these things.

Like, yeah, that's because I'm dissimilar. I identified with it. Here's what's funny. Here's what's different now. Now when I do certain things or I celebrate, people are shocked that I'm having a piece of cake. Yeah. And they'll say, wait, I thought you were a fitness guy. What are you doing eating a piece of cake?

I thought you were a sickness guy. I'm like, yeah, I'm at a birthday. I'm at a birthday. We're celebrating someone's birthday. I'll have a piece of cake. Or I'll go to the movies, which I don't do every week, once a month or less, I'll go to the movies. And they'll notice I'm buying some candy to eat.

And I went with a buddy of mine not that long ago. And I remember him looking at, I'm having gummy bears. And he's looking at me like, what's this guy doing it? And so he thought, he said, man, you work out so much that you can just eat this stuff all the time, right? I'm like, actually, I almost never do. But I'm at the movies and it's, you know,

kind of hanging out with you. And it's okay. But, you know, it's okay. It's not a big deal. But it was, it's a totally different experience. Whereas before, I was never flexible.

And I sacrificed things that were much more important than, you know, me being perfect with my workouts. You know, I sacrificed the celebration of the birthday. I sacrificed the meal that someone might have made because I got to be on this,

on the strict regimen, you know? Here's the next one. You're super lean all the time. Now, yes, there are those people out there that this is, they've got those genetics that allows them to walk around shred it all the time. This is extremely rare, everybody, okay? Very rare. This is like less than 1% of a population who seem to somehow walk around super lean.

Everybody else, if you're a woman and you're walking and you're a fitness fanatic and you're walking around in the teens all the time. You've never, you've been in the 16% body fat range for years. or you're that dude that's always at 9% body fat for years and years and years. You got to eat more and move less, dude. Here's your evidence. When you look at maximum fitness performance, endurance, strength, stamina, generally speaking, body fat percentage are higher.

Women don't, aren't 15%. They're typically 20%. Men are typically 15%. 9%. Why? Because he need body fat. You need some body fat for health and longevity. You can't be shredded all the time.

This is really evident sometimes in our call. Well, we'll get, especially female callers, they'll call in asking us why they can't build a butt or why they can't improve their deadlift. And they'll tell us their Dexter scan and it's 15%. Say, how long have you been 15%? Oh, you know, the last eight years. Okay. You need you gain some body fat. That's your problem.

You're not eating enough, you know? That's the challenge. Remind me, I don't want to hijack where you're going right now, but we did, uh, Karen did her next Dexascan. So I have a lot to share to this point. Cool. because it's just it's given me even more insight in regards to what you're talking about right now. And I want to be able to share, I hope she doesn't mind that I share the numbers and some of that because I think they're important to highlight the point that you're making right now and how detrimental it can be if you don't get out of that place. Because then you get stuck in this place where your body won't respond and then your bone density goes down and all the other things that happen with that.

And so, yeah, I have an update. for the audience that's been asking and waiting for like some of the things that we've been doing and a lot more a lot more we have to do to get to where we want to be for sure. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, well, I mean to a lot of times

people are in that comparison trap where it's like a social media thing. It looks like these people are lean year-round and it looks like it's very much a perception thing where you could take a lot of pictures and you could go through phases where you're that lean, but you want to portray yourself

as always this lean person. So, I mean, it's, it's, again, like that could also be, you know, in itself. It's very, you know, alluring. And it's something that, like, people want to, like, have goals towards. But, you know, to maintain that is you're just not in a healthy place. Well, to Sal's point about that's one percent of the population. And then I'd say then because right now, so many more people see that to your point. Because 15 percent is bullshit, you know, or 20 percent or whatever.

Yeah, like the one percent. it actually could like maintain it. Yeah, there's a very small percentage that actually do maintain it and it's actually okay. You know, that the genetic anomalies, right? Those do exist. And then there's a whole bunch of people that fake it by taking a bunch of photos at a amount of time and then dripping it over the year that make people believe that they're maintained that way. So for the average person who's tuning in to Instagram and YouTube and the social media world,

they have no idea that what's going on there, that there's one, a very small percentage of people that can and should even be able to maintain that. And then there's this large percentage of these people that act like they're that 1%. And they're not even really that 1%. They're just staging photos in one month and then dripping it throughout the year. Well, what's funny, too, is you get this really strange perception drift where you think you look best shredded. whereas gaining four or five percent body fat actually makes you look a lot better.

This is true for both men and women, especially women. But even true for men, like, you know, I can get down to 7% and be shredded. When I get my body fat up to 11, 12%, my wife will tell me you look much better. You never liked what I looked like on stage. She hated that last month. Like the dead look.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you'll see this with women. They'll walk around 15, 16%. And just gaining four or five percent body fat, they look good. You know what it is? They look healthier.

because they are healthier. You know what's funny is that the old saying the camera adds 10 pounds or whatever. It only looks okay or good on a picture. That's it. In a picture or on camera.

In a fitness context. Yes. In real life, it doesn't look better. It looks emaciated. Which is funny because I think that's the part where people get misled is they look back at this picture

and they're like, oh, that looks so, but it's like, no, in real life, it doesn't look that good. It actually looks better for you to be a little bit softer. Here's another one. You haven't improved objective performance in a long time. This is a sign you're working out too much

and you're not eating enough. It's like, has your strength really gone up? Has your stamina gone up? Or are you kind of staying the same while you're eating low calorie and making every single workout? In fact, oftentimes with a client, all I would do is bump their calories

and suddenly they're hitting PRs. I don't have them bump their calories 700. It's all right, fine. Keep training like you are, even though it's too much. Let's have you eat 700 more calories. And they come back and like, my God, I added 30 pounds to my squat. It's like, well, yeah. Oh, my God, my energy's through the roof. What's going? I'm sleeping good again. What's happening? You're not redlining everything. You're just

eating more. And that's, you know, your performance isn't a perfect metric, but it is an objective metric. Looking in the mirror and, you know, judging how you look, there's so much subjective, you know, quality of that where you could really fool yourself. You can even be fooled by other people. You could be in a fitness fanatic circle of people that will tell you how awesome you look, though you're unhealthy. But, you know, strength, that's objective. You either lift more or you don't. Stamina, that's objective. You either are able to do more or not. And when those haven't improved in a long time, you may just need to eat more. That'll make the difference. And then here's the final one. It's not a joyful thing for you. It's not, and I'm going to be clear, your life isn't more joyful.

If your life, if your joyful aspects of your life are your workouts and everything else is not joyful, then the workout is no longer serving. And that's a big problem. 100%. I mean, I think that's actually more common than not. I think a lot of people talk about their workouts as their escape from the rest of their life. Yeah, that's their place where, yeah, I mean, then you're using it a lot of times, or at least in my experience with clients.

You've turned your workout into a drug. Yeah, they're running away. Totally. They're medicating with it. 100%. 100%. I want to ask you, Adam, because you mentioned off air, and I didn't ask you because I want to save it for the show that you were using, you were sauteing your mushrooms in the powerplace pan.

Yeah, yeah. Are you using the one, the, the, the, the one, I don't remember what it's called, it's like the multifunctional pan. It's the one that you can do all kinds of things in. Is it ceramic or, which one? It's so, yes, I think so, because it's chemical. It's the giant tan colored ones, and I think it has the ceramic coating. It has the coating on the bottom where you literally just run water on it and everything

wipes right off of it. Yeah, no, I was actually talking with Doug because, uh, I was actually talking with Doug because, uh, I've gotten my sauteing my mushrooms and onions from watching Doug, and I went down this rabbit hole last weekend, and I'm just like, you know what? Like, I love mushrooms so much. I want to, like, look up some other recipes and how I can improve. I love mushrooms.

Oh, dude. I'm going to make you some bomb. Love them. I took, like, another level of, like, my mushroom game came up. Yeah. I just, I, you know, I, uh, I'm not a cook by any of these. Sorry, what did you say? He's a fun guy.

Anyway, it's a fun guy. Dad jokes are heavy. Yeah, the ceramic non-stick is the... It's called the Always Pan. The All-Way, that's the one. I knew it. You know what's interesting? So here's what I want to bring up.

So mushrooms have this unique ability of absorbing anything that they come and contact you. Both when they grow, but also when you cook them. This is why they taste so good. Like whatever you saute them in, they kind of absorb the flavor. Yeah. Which also to the Our Place. So Our Place uses, what is it called? Forever Chemical Free Pan.

So it's non-stick, but it doesn't have the forever chemicals in there. If you saute onions, excuse me, mushrooms in a pan with the chemicals, it'll absorb more chemicals than anything else. So all foods will pick up those forever chemicals, but mushrooms are like sponges. Oh, yeah. And yeah, you'll get a really high concentration. So especially if you cook something like a mushroom, you want a forever chemical-free pan. What a good point.

What a good point. Yeah, I didn't realize how much I was over-cooking them before. They were because they tasted so good still because to your point if you saute them and garlic and ghee or butter like that it's hard for them to taste bad. Yeah. But my texture was off and I thought it wasn't right. And I learned a lot about like at what temperature that I cook them and then when do I see like season them? I thought I can just season them right away. You don't do that because then it pulls everything out too early.

So I figured out how to do them a lot better. And now it's like the third time I've cooked them. You guys are two. You and Doug are like two of the best, like, male, like, cooks that I would not put me in that category. Doug could cook. I have a few things I like to do. You know what it is? Well, you're both passionate about it.

So I, just recently for me, in the last, I don't know how many years in my life, maybe the last five. Yeah. Maybe five. I like, I, uh, you're really into it. I never was into it. You know what it is? It's, um, you're old. Yeah.

That's definitely something to do with it. That's a guy. It's definitely something to do with it. You know, I've really, and I think this kind of harkens back to when I shared the story about Katrina and I, you know, me getting frustrated with like the house not being so clean. And then we like had this, like, it was I had this epiphany of like, I care so much about that. Like, why am I getting frustrated with her? Your epiphany is a self-clean house. Yeah.

So that's what it was like, because here's the thing. I have a wife that's like, it's like she's lazy. She's over there doing laundry and taking care of my son. She's very good at what she's good at too. She organizes everything. That's right. Exactly. And she has its incredible strengths.

It's like, so why am I beating her up on the one thing that she just is not as, she doesn't care as much as I do? So I had that epiphany. This was back when we lived in Marina. So I don't know how many years, like seven years ago or whatever. And we, I just started like that. I do that every single night like clockwork while she's getting our son together. And what has happened in the last few years and what came of that to how I'm tying this all together is that it became enjoyable. Something that was.

Because now you're not feeling like you're doing it at a choice. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm playing music and it becomes this, uh, my alone time. Yeah, that's great. And I'm alone. I don't, I don't, my phone's not because my hands are working.

So I'm like no phone. So it's like an hour, an hour and a half of just like in my thoughts, doing what I'm doing. And so it's become this. I've, that is, I've experienced that there first and thought, wow, something that I considered a chore that I hated or pissed me off. we get into fights, whatever you want to say, has now turned into this thing that I really like to do. I'm like, that's interesting.

I wonder what other aspects of my life are like that. And I'd say cooking was kind of like a chore for me. I've always been able to kind of do it, but I'm not in the mood to do it. I was always really kind of simple like you, just forming grill shit, whatever. Just look at things like protein carb fat. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It was like it means to an end type of deal. And I thought, well, what if I started to kind of get into it and take my time and like, you know, do everything slow, And so I've actually learned And I've, over the last couple years, I've started to enjoy that. I've enjoyed the walk away and it's me in the kitchen for two hours

and I'm doing my thing. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of... Yeah, because you and Doug, I've had some of the best like steaks and meals around steaks that I've ever had with you guys. For sure, yeah.

Yeah, he's, I think he's way more of a cook than I am. Doug's been doing it for a while. He's been into cooking for a long time. Yeah, probably like 50 years or so. At least. At least. Maybe 60 almost. Back when they just come from here.

No, my grandma and I used to cook together. Really? Really? Yeah. Now, okay, so that's interesting. So I'm curious. Do you think that's where your passion came from? And did you start doing it even in your 20s?

Or like, when did you really start? I really started when I was, I was very interested in food and cooking when I was even 10 years old. Oh, wow. This is a thing for you. It's been a thing. For me, I love food to start off. I love food. but I'm also fascinated on how certain flavors are achieved.

So I've had these lifelong pursuits for various types of foods to cook. One is pizza. I always wanted to make an incredible pizza, and I just could never figure it out. Does he know what you did? Does he know you? So I ended up hiring a pizza coach. A pizza coach? Yes.

Do you guys know this? The big pizza coach? Well, no, this guy, his name is Luigi. He's from Positano. Of course. Okay. Which right away you know he's off. So I have pursued the perfect pizza for years, and I just could not figure it out.

And then I discovered at one point, okay, you have to have the right oven. It has to be hot enough, right? But even then, I just couldn't get the right, what do you call, gluten structure, if you will. You have to have that perfect crust, right? And I just couldn't figure out why that was. So I was at this pop-up pizza place in the Campbell Farmer's Market. Okay. And this guy, Luigi, I tried his pizza, and I go, this is amazing.

So I talked to him. He goes, yeah, I'll come and I'll teach you. So I paid for him to come out. He brought all his dough and then he taught me how to make it. But one of the things I discovered is I had this mixer. I had a Viking mixer. I figured, oh, this is a good mixer. It's Viking.

Yeah. Good brand. But the problem was it goes around. They call it, I think, a orbital mixer. It's like the KitchenAid or whatever else. But it just bangs the dough on the side of the bowl. So you need an actual true spiral mixer. It has like a steel bar.

in the middle and then it wraps the dough. So it's the way it mixes it with the air and everything. The way it needs it, right? Yeah. So you have to have proper gluten development to get the proper crust. And I just could never get that, even though I made decent pizzas, right? And so I ended up buying one of these mixers. It's an Italian mixer. It's 88 pounds.

This is massive. This is like a commercial thing. Anyway. I've hired him four times, maybe five. He's come over my house and we just keep working on my pizza skills. And I'll say I'm pretty darn good now. Now, what about throwing it in the air? Is that a thing?

I think that's more of an American thing. Oh, really? If you're looking like the Neapolitan-style dough, so I make kind of authentic, I would say authentic Neapolitan style. Yeah. So from the south, like Napoli, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's a different, it's different than some of these other,

like your New York pizzas and that type of thing. That's American. That's American. Yeah. And so the dough is, yeah, it doesn't really do well by throwing it up. I'm sure you can. Oh, I see. But, no, it's more you stretch it by hand.

That's awesome. Yeah. So you're going to have us over? Yeah. Well, when I have the new place, I'm going to have. I mean, you would totally, you're going to build an oven outside eventually. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

How fun. Wood fire. But anyway, that was like a lifelong passion, but there's other foods I've been trying to make my entire life and have learned little by little. Well, your Thai dishes are fire. Yeah. So good. That was actually learning how to cook Thai food was because I moved to Japan. and I was such a Thai food fanatic

and I couldn't find any Thai restaurants to go to. So I learned how to cook it. Oh, that's cool. So anyway, I'm definitely not on that guy's level. No, but like I said, you guys are both into it. Well, you know what my favorite thing is, though, is that because everyone's all into their things and stuff like that is like, that's where Doug will shell out money. Oh, yeah, because he loves it. Yeah, yeah. I don't even want to know

how much that Mr. Crossman. Yeah, he acts all quiet about that stuff like that, and I know I get real for being the guy of this. Oh, this is the Ferrari of the car. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's definitely got the Ferrari of fixers. It is espresso machine. I remember his espresso machine. I want to get a Courtney one of it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so. I'm cool. We have a $90. We have a special machine at home. We might own Amazon. It breaks every once in a while. We just get another one.

I swear to God. It's literally 90 bucks. All the time. So, wow, that's great. Dude, I got to tell you guys about this incredible. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before you go, I don't want to go too far from your fitness topic because I think it's... Oh, yeah.

Okay, go. Sorry. Bring you back? Yeah. Yeah. want to bring it back to that because I think since the audience that is tuning in for that and wants to hear, I think it's important. So, you know, we've been on Corinne's journey for quite some time now. And she's one of our top trainers here. Yes, yes. And she falls in this category of somebody who has stayed in that teen lean for a very, very long time. And it's competed at the high level and has struggled to add muscle to put weight on. And remember, we did the first. you know,

Dexascan and it came back that we did we put nothing but body fat right. Which was super discouraging. Although I want to say in that period of time, if you haven't listened, her strength Oh, PR performance went through the roof. PR cities. She needed to gain body fat.

Sometimes that has happened. You have to gain body fat. So that, so the, and if just to recap for people that didn't catch the, the beginning of that story and what you're alluding to, the reason why I even had her Dexascan, typically with a client like that, I wouldn't even a deck scan. But I got anxious because we were hitting crazy PR.

Crazy just 30 pounds to lift. In everything. And squatting and hip thrusting and just. And we had been doing that for like months. I'm like, oh, hell yeah. And the weight on her scale, like we put on like 10, 15 pounds on the scale. So I'm like, hell yeah. So excited.

But according to the deck says, should we get this report back? And it's no muscle, all body fat. And still takes her to like the, I want to say we were at 19%. Yeah, she's still shredded. She's still lean. Still super, super lean. And I remember telling her that, you know, you are at a place where you're going to have to have a higher body to put muscle on.

Your body doesn't feel safe. Adding more muscle right now, speeding your metabolism up any faster, we're going to have to get. And I am at, and what I'm learning even with her as long as I've been doing this and have had clients like this before, she's probably one of the clients that I, the clients that that I've had that has kept their body fat percentage this low for very long and training this hard for as long as have. And so it's been this interesting, you know, even challenge for me to see what was happening. And so we did Dexha. It's been, it's been a while. And she'd been asking

for it. And I said, okay, we'll do it. I said, but I don't care what it says. You can't let it. We got to stay on track. Yeah, we got to stay on track and stuff like that. And so we are now weight-wise, a total of, we're about, I think, 17 pounds heavier than she's ever been right now. So 15, 17 pounds heavier. And we did the scan. And both bone density went up and we added two and a half pounds of muscle.

All right. And so the bone density one was important. Yeah. We still went up body fat percentage. Okay. So we still went up more body fat than we did muscle. And what it really highlighted for me is that your body is just now entering

where it's starting to feel a little safe to do that. And by the way, if you guys saw her, she looks amazing. If you saw her. I get compliments all the time. She looks amazing. Yeah, yeah, no. She looks healthy, strong, fit. I mean, she looks right.

And I love that she's been open and talking about her journey and sharing as she's gone through because I think she's helping so many other ladies that have, like, struggled with this. Because, you know, we're, she needed a, break. I want to keep going, right? And so she's in the whole goal is eventually to get back on stage again. And here we are, peak weight for her right now, right? And I see how her body's responding. And she's like, can we cut now? And I said, only if you feel like you need a break. I said, but what I've learned

from being with you this long now and now that I see where we're at, this is where I want you to hit stage at. So you feel the biggest you've ever felt and you don't like where you're at, I'm telling you, that we've got to go another 15 pounds. So we can cut down to this. So we can cut down to this. Because this is where your body needs to be. And now, granted, you'll put muscle, we'll put body fat on and we'll come back down

and you'll have more muscle at this weight. And so you'll be a leaner. But I can tell based off of the results we were getting from this, that we needed to get your body fat percentage higher in order for you to start seeing muscle. And we could still afford to even go a little bit higher. And we have got to get comfortable with

what you consider a fluffy look, even though I think you look incredible. There's three things here that are working in her favor. One, she's a coach, and she coaches a lot of people who struggle with this, and so she speaks to it very well. She's an excellent coach, because she herself experiences the challenges.

Two, she's working with you, and you're obviously a good coach. You've been doing this for a long time, one of the best, but you're also her boss and somebody that she respects, because I don't know, I can't imagine how difficult it would be for her to work with any other coach and have Dexas scans show just gaining body fat

and being like, I'm out. This isn't working. Abandon it. But because it's you and she trusts you and she works for you and because she coaches other people, I think that's keeping her on track because that's tough.

Oh, yeah. That'd be really hard. I know. Out there being vulnerable too. Totally. It's huge. I mean, I feel for her when you get that because inside everything I want her to see

is just my would put on the, especially the PR, hours that are happening, the effort to to eat the calories we're eating to do all the things we're doing. But the reason why I wanted to bring it up today, because what you brought up today is because it just highlights that when you

if you've been in that place, and I guess and you can communicate this maybe better than me, but the best way I can communicate this is that you have been so lean, borderline unhealthy lean for so long and pushing the body training-wise. And so now you start feeding it.

You're starting to train and you're starting to You're starting to get strong. So the body wants to get strong because it's been dying to have those extra calories. But it also still doesn't feel safe to add a fast tissue, a tissue that is going to require more calories. And so it's saying we're going to put body fat on. And we're going to put the safe thing. Yeah. We're going to continue to put body fat on until we feel that we're in a place that's safe enough to add this, this, you know, higher metabolic tissue that onto your body.

And so, you know, yes. And that's been a lot of the conversation is like, hey, if you really want to put this muscle on, and by the way, this applies to even someone who's not trying to compete. If you are a female and you've just started yourself forever. Yeah, you've just kept yourself lean for so long and you know you want to build a butt

and you want to build your arms or whatever the body parts that you want to build, but you struggle with the phase that it may be necessary for you to go to in order to get that butt, to build those arms, whatever it is once you build, you have to get comfortable with being fluffy for a little bit. Which is funny because she's not fluffy.

Right, right. But they will feel it. That's right. That's why I'm using that term because I don't, I think she looks to me the best she's, I've ever seen her right now. Like, incredible. But, you know, in her eyes, you know, using her words, fat, fluffy. That's right.

Yeah, Filterra. Like so, but I get it. And so I know that there's a lot of women that can relate to that feeling. But you simultaneously say things like, I want to build my butt. I want to build my arm. And it's just like, you know what? You got to. And this is, this is for both sexes, but it's extremely.

extremely important for women. It's much more common in women. Yes, for sure. Very, very much. 100%. Well, good job, dude. I'm really proud of her for doing it. Awesome.

You watch. All right, so this weekend, let me tell you guys about this incredible experience I had this weekend. So I don't know if you guys remember when I, so I go down to L.A. here and there to get on some shows. And there was this podcast down. My buddy Dave has it.

It's called Street Gospel. And so he'll have like rappers, graffiti artists, fighters. But it's also kind of faith-based. He was a fan of the show Invited me down I went down there Great guy

He's the guy that sent that The bat with the spiraled You know whatever Because he's like also a fan of movies Oh that's cool Yeah so anyway cool guy Walking Dead Walking Dead right

So anyway he sends me a clip Of this pastor That was on his show And he's hey check this guy out And right away I noticed the guy's Colorflower ear Because you know I did Jiu Jitsu So I don't know what it was

About what he said But I reached out to the guy The past name is Troy Troy Fink. And I sent him a DM. I'm like, hey, man, I love your stuff. And he's like, dude, I love your stuff. I've been following mind pump for a long time.

So we message each other a couple times. It goes, hey, dude, I'm doing this, like, this men's retreat in a few weeks. I'd love for you to come. And totally out of character for me. I mean, it's up in the mountains. You're sleeping in a dorm room. There's like, it's like totally, like, you guys know me. You guys know that it's nothing.

Okay. But for whatever reason. You're not misadventure. No, dude. Not even close, right? But for whatever reason, I felt kind of convicted. I knew nothing of what was happening there except for I had this feeling, messages the guy.

So I said, yeah, dude, I think I'd love to go. And right out the gates, two people came to mind for me that I'd want to bring. It was Dylan and Josh. So I message he's going to come with me. Both of them were like, yeah, let's go. So the three of us go. We drive down to this place called Pinecrest. Pinecrest?

Yes. You know where that is down by L.A.? Oh, not that at Pinecrest. It's like the mountains by L.A. Okay. So it's like six hour drive, right? So it's all the way up there or down there, I should say. Near bear?

Is it near bear? No idea. I have no idea. What's the lake that's up there? No idea, bro. I have no, I didn't know this place's existent. So anyway, we drive over there. And it's a group, it's, he, so Troy started a church.

He's been a pastor for a while, but he started a church a year ago in his home. He did a Bible study. And the Bible study grew, and he decided to put together this retreat. and so I don't know any of this stuff. I just found this out while we got there. So we get there and it's a men's retreat with just all these dudes from different churches. He seems to really attract a lot of guys that have been lost for a while. So we get there and it was great, dude.

It was this incredible experience. Part of it was for me was cool that I was in this very uncomfortable situation. Like I said, we slept in these dorm style rooms with like no one. mattress. No AC, yeah, dude, the whole thing. There's no shower, a bathroom in there. Oh, yeah, dude. You guys know me, so, but I did it. And we hung out there. Dylan and Josh got baptized, which was really cool, which was actually interesting for me because they both decided to do it and it got me super emotional. So I'm sitting there crying while these guys are doing their thing. And it was just, it was just great experience, meeting these guys and hearing some of these testimonies. He had this one guy go up who, you know, he's now been the, sober for a while, but he had gotten so bad. He had lost everything his house, his family. It was a heroin addict. Tried to kill himself many, many times by overdosing. And, you know, comes to Jesus and ends up, you know, cleaning himself up. And now they're going to start some program for people who need help. And so it's a really great experience. So, the whole time.

So tell me how does this relate to you not being fat? Huh? Oh, my feet. He sees it in your phone. You got to talk about what happened. You came in today and I'm like, bro, you are, the inflammation is so down. It's very, very obvious to me. And so I don't know what you did, but you did. Fasting all weekend.

Well, the food, I don't want to say. Okay, so the food was like, you know, it was like, you're eating a kind of buffet food and it's not much and you're kind of limited to what they made. Sure. So I just didn't eat a lot. That's all. So that's why when I came in, you said, you look. I'm like, why I didn't really eat much, dude? Yeah, it really brought down all information.

Yeah, yeah. It was very limited. So I had, like, fruit and meat. Yeah. Because the other options were, like, macaroni. Yeah, it brought your calories way down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You look healthy.

You look really good right now. Oh, I appreciate it. And, you know, and I'm sure you've seen it in me, and you've made comments before. It's like, you don't really notice it until you, like, I'm so used to seeing you all time. And then, like to see you come in. I'm like, oh, my God, bro, you look like you leaned way out.

Yeah. It's a little chisled out your face. Oh. Wow. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe the face was starting to look like my face. Yeah. Spiritally healthy, bro. Yeah. I don't know. But it was a really, it was a really. Is that all weekend? Was it?

It was all weekend, bro. Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Oh, wow. I didn't even know you were doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just went up there.

Like I said, it was kind of like a... Did you guys shoot any content or no? No. No. No. I mean, I have clips. And it's up to Josh and Dylan, if they're okay with it. We could post their baptisms.

It's kind of cool. Mm-hmm. But it was, no, it was kind of on a whim. I didn't know Troy at all. Didn't know anybody there at all. But I ended up talking with Troy. He's really, really great dude. He really loves people a lot.

And he's got this, it seems like he's got this, because of that, he attracts people who've been lost for a long time. And they feel like they're coming in. They're not getting to look down on. They're not being judged. And it was just wonderful. It's just great environment of men coming together. worshipping. It was really, really cool.

That's cool. What did you do this week besides fight over door handles? What? Yeah. There's just been like little scuffles. I mean, we heard what door, what? You told me a story. You know, I just, yeah. I mean, Courtney got in fights over the dumbest things, you know? And it's like, really, we're both up here. We're just like redlining a lot with like fixing things and, and constantly trying to prep. Like, we just put our house back on the market. And so it's like. Stressful. Yeah, stressful.

Anyways, we, yeah, we got into it a bit. But, uh, like, I, I, I didn't really do anything crazy. I went to the pool, uh, with some of my friends. And, um, we, uh, my, my kid actually watched the Odyssey again. I wanted to talk to about this. Oh, so who watched it? So, um, Everett watched. I actually watched it with my boys when I was in Atlanta.

I went back and saw it twice. It was so good. So you guys liked it that much? Yes. And I think it's one of the best movies. I thought it was so. Boring. Bro.

So here's... I'll watch it again. I'm open to watching again. Yes, but let me preface this because I think I found somebody that will help you like, oh, okay, like I could see it from a different perspective because... So Jonathan Page, I actually found, like, he did a really good commentary on this. Love him. Love him.

What do you mean? Meaning the entire packaging in the exterior of the movie was basically to appease, you know, him being able to get awards, him being able to sell it to that, you know, kind of like Hollywood community. And I got caught up in that. Yeah. And it really, like everything, he, he put in a lot of really good storywriting that leads back to, it harkens back to a lot of like old stories. that they're about like finding yourself and about like, you know, taking that, that journey to get, like, save, like a lot of the hero's journey kind of, like, um, stories out there that are like really compelling. So, uh, a lot of it was like trickster. So the, the whole movie itself is like the theme of it really is like, you know, being able to to do like a, uh, a kind of swap out like a trick with the. And so even in the beginning, like, he's teaching him how to fight. by opening himself up a little bit more vulnerable. And so they come into attack and then he can make his move.

And so that's really the theme of the whole movie and like how he's trying to kind of portray. And he swapped out the transgender character. Everybody thought he was Achilles, but it's actually this other like less insignificant. And like rode in this whole, but it's really interesting for him to break down because so basically they like he replaced. the other kid that was supposed to go to war to Troy. And so, like, there was this whole, like, underlying message with that.

Even using a transgender person, like, in replacement of an actual man. Oh. And so, like, anyway, if you look at it, like, from a meta perspective, like, I'm not sophisticated enough. It's, dude. I'm going to send you. I'll send you the breakdown and I won't get into more of the details. It was good. But, um...

Literally for me, I didn't care about that. It was literally boring. I was so boring. Yeah. That's crazy. Too much story, I think, right? Well, maybe I don't watch it long enough. We laughed with, with Cyclops part.

By the time we got there, I'm like, this is killing me. And the cyclops didn't keep you engaged? I mean, a little bit. What? Yeah. I mean, now, hey, now I know while you got blasted on Twitter, bro. Sure. That is why.

Because all of my... I had a lot of people agree with me, by the way. All of my, all of my... Well, I mean, there's Twitter. It's been opposite. Of course, there's a pull of idiots everywhere. You know what I'm saying? That are you're going to get into.

I was, dude. So that means nothing on Twitter. All the real life. It was a massive piece. But all of my friends, when you told me, they were all, they were all, they were all, they were like, we got to go see this together. And I'm like, oh, Sal said it's terrible. They're like, what?

All of everyone I know is amazing. Well, I can't wait to see what you guys think, what you and Doug think. Well, yeah, I'll go see it. But Justin was like, this wasn't just a good movie. He's like one of the best moves ever seen. And the thing was, too, I was going in, like, oh, he didn't go. You know, and I was just, we need to kill time.

Maybe that's why you liked it because I made you think it sucks. And I stuck it out. And to your, to be fair, like, it was a little slow, like, building in the beginning. And you're just kind of, okay, where we're going? Every three and a half hour movie. But, yeah, it's a three hour movie to the point where I don't know, I was like super engaged. And it, it, like, it's been a long time since I've watched the movie and I felt like every emotion. And I felt like I was scared in in that cave.

Were you sober? I was sober, bro. It was like, I didn't see it in like an IMAX. I don't know. You got to hear all the sounds and like, dude, I could go off on it. I mean,

I'm going to, yeah, I'll watch it again. I'll watch it again. I'll watch it again. Yeah. It was like, what?

I was just so confused when I left the theater because I was like, so I don't watch the whole thing. I told you I left. Bro, that's the part that I can't wrap my brain around is from, I can count. on one hand how many times I've walked out of a theater. And it's definitely not five. Same. Same. I almost never do. Maybe two

or three. In my life, bro. 45 years, three movies I've walked out of that made one of those three. That to me is like it has to be a shitty movie to walk out. The hills have eyes. Like, I walked out of that movie, but that was just because it was so grotesquish. Sure. Well, I'm not

a movie critic. Don't take my advice. No, yeah. My advice on that. But yeah, I'll try it again, dude. We'll see. Yeah. Maybe I have, maybe it got good after I left. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think so.

You haven't seen yet, have you? I haven't seen yet. I want to see it, but three hours is daunting. I know, yeah. Doug and I are like tiptoeing because of you guys. I know. I had all this time to kill,

so that's really the only reason why we went, but it was just like so mind blowing to me up. I didn't expect that at all. To be fair, when it comes to movies, opinions on movies,

Justin and I oftentimes agree. Yeah, sometimes disagree. Yeah. But we are probably most different from both you and Doug. Oh, yeah. That's why he loves, that you guys like, I know. And same with me.

Like, I'll stand on this lonely island over here, dude. I think it was so amazing. I think you guys will be the tiebreakers, but I'll watch it again. I'll give it another show. Well, my, I have a couple buddies. And I have my, my suspect, like, one of my best friends, he is very, and I don't know which one of you two, you would fall in this category, but like, you know, just the blow him up, shoot him up, whatever, like, doesn't have to have a good plot to it.

I don't do that. I don't do that. So he, and. I mean, so it's like, oh, at him, that's how my brother-in-law is like that too. So, like, when they recommend movies, I know what I'm going into, right? Like, so. But then I have my buddy, my child, my buddy goes all the way back to fourth grade. And him and I are, we used to collect movies when we were little.

So we, when we first, cassettes back of the day. And we were really into movies. And we used to critique them and talk about them all the time. And that was our thing. And so we, and we loved finding, like, movies that a lot of people may not know about that were really good hidden gyms. And so, yeah, we like stuff like that. And he was like, it was epic, dude. I don't know what, Sal, he's like, Sal was freaking crazy.

Wow. So, yeah. So it was enough. Him and then Justin told me that was enough for, okay, I need to go watch it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right.

You guys go watch it. And then I had another ghost experience. What? What do you mean a ghost experience? Yeah, so I told you the previous, remember when like the, when I was sitting in the live, or the dining room and then like one of the chairs that caught fire? Yes, yeah. Yeah.

It was super wild. At that house again? The same house. Yeah. Wait a minute. Same house. You got to get out of that house. That's why I hasn't sold yet.

Yeah, maybe that. A little disclosure. You're going to be living with somebody else. Some people might actually want to life. I was going to say, that might be a selling point. Yeah. This house is haunted. Baby.

Dude, but I mean, I wouldn't have thought anything of it because I thought it was because I was just in the house alone with Everett. And this is the middle of the day. Everybody was gone. Like, I think Courtney was taking, Ethan, the gymnastics. And I was like, just tired and decided to lay down. and I was like kind of taking a nap and I was like half awake half asleep and then I just hear this like it was almost like a whining but it was like a almost a yodel it was like oh whoa whoa you're like that yeah like and I was and I'm like I'm like Everett what do you do like what's going on here and like nothing I get nothing from him it keeps going and then it goes away and I get up and I'm like that's really weird well

me up. And so I'm kind of getting myself together and I go into Everett's room. Like, hey, man, like, what, what, what was all that? And he's like, what the yodling? And I'm like, yeah, what, like, what was all that? And he's like, I don't know. It wasn't me. And then, like, no. And so I'm like, sometimes we catch noises coming up from the school because we're kind of like, we're up a bit higher and like down below us is a, a frisbee golf course. And so some people like kind of go through there, they make noise, whatever. I'm like, ah, it must have been something like that. But it's. But it's, It literally sounded like it was in the house, like wailing noises. Like, and we were just like, dude, this is creepy, dude. And he's still tripping on it. Isn't that a common thing that people will say that ghosts will make that sound? Isn't that a, like, a common thing? Yeah. I think, well, you know, like when you see ghosts and cartoons, oh, isn't that what they?

Yeah. Look at it up, dog. Doug, sorry, dog. Look it up, dog. Look it up, bro. Doogle that, yeah. Yeah, look up. the ghosts, what do they do,

moaning sounds? Is that common? Or wailing? Or wailing? Yeah. Because they're in pain. Like the fanshee. You know? They bring that up a lot. So what did you do? You just go back to bed? Or did you like? No, I got it up and I was walking around. Was it in the middle of the eye? How late was it?

No, this is right in the middle of the day. Yeah. And it was when I was sleeping. Oh, look. This is telling you, it was the wind and weather or the house moving. So maybe that's what it was, dude. Yeah. Except it sounded like a human. Yeah. That's creepy, dude. So you just say go back to bed or what? No, dude, I got up and was active and clean the house, whatever.

I don't know. I was like not going to go back to sleep. Oh, that's creepy, dude. That's super creepy. I'm out of there, bro. I'm out of there. Yeah. No, thank you.

I had some fun, fun stuff. I'm going to change the subject and get to talks about supplements here for a second. You know, there's some data that suggests that the higher higher protein intake. So we talk about one gram of protein per pound of body weight. Even higher amounts may be. even more beneficial for people who want to build even more muscle. I thought I've seen Lane do a breakdown that they're on the studies as high as 1.5. Yeah.

So what I was going to say is this may be why, because I always hit one gram of protein per pound of body weight. I almost never go over that. So I'm eating about 220 grams of protein a day. More than that is insane, right? It's like I'd have to eat a ton. But I do notice, I seem to notice benefits when I'm consistent. with Keon's essential amino acids. So I eat so much protein,

adding the essential amino acids, I still notice some benefit. Yeah. And it might be that. Well, that might be the reason that even more essential amino acids than what I thought was a lot

might be beneficial. Well, I did when we did, a lot, it's been now two years since I documented that whole cut that I did on the YouTube channel. And one of the things I did was

use those, essential amino acids during that process. And I still hit my protein intake. I still was hitting over one. But I was doing that in addition to that. Well, yeah. I had the Dexascan come back. One of the first Dexascan's I've ever done and not lost any muscle.

Yeah. So to be in a cut, you typically expect to lose a little bit. Always. Yeah. And so, you know, obviously the game has always been, you know, can I cut just the right amount and minimize how little amount of muscle? that was the first time I did a cut like that and didn't lose any muscle. So that was a big selling point for me.

I know we did the episode. Were you doing it in between meals or with meals? In between. Yeah. Yeah. So I would literally take seven like three times a day between meals. So I do a meal. And then I had one here.

I had them in my gym bag and I had them at next to my bed. So I could just grab them. And then I would literally just between after I had a meal, it's been an hour or so I'd reach over, grab, take. seven of them, go back to my day, eat, dude again, seven. Like, so between every, between every meal, I'd have seven. Yeah, I'm sold on that. I'm sold on it.

But remember, if you take, for anybody listening, if you take essential amino acid supplements, they have to be high and loosing. Yeah. Very high and loosing. That's the key. If the loosing is low, then it's like, you got to take twice too much. I don't even mess around. It makes a lot of sense in a cut, you know, to supplement with that too.

But like what you're saying with, like, even on a high protein, you're going to get benefit on. Yeah. One other thing I want to touch on is just how good you guys look with, new lighting. I'm looking at the TV. This whole time everybody thought Justin and I were sixes. You guys are sold seven. We're like a solid seven

and a half now, dude. So, solid seven and a half now. And that's because of the lighting, right? We got, what is this? Movie lighting? Is that we did? I actually had, it was somebody's client called me a snack. A snack? Whoa. Whoa. That's a big snack. I'm like a bag of Doritos over. Yeah. Still be getting that in your mid-40s? It's not bad, dog.

Yeah. Well, because, yeah. Yeah, they don't, I guess, don't watch the show or anything, and then it was like, you know, did some video. Yeah, yeah. So, you, I agree. I would agree. You want a snack for sure. 100%. Yeah.

Adam's a meal. Yeah, he's a full meal. Stay dinner. Somebody, I did a video. I did was doing weighted pull-ups and I videoed it since I'd never video my workouts, right? And I was like, I'm in here. I was working out. And I was like, you need evidence.

Yeah. Just want to make sure everybody knows I still train everyone so while. One set, that's it. That's all you'd see. It's it for the day. But I was doing that. And somebody's comment, like, not bad for a big-ish guy.

It's a weird compliment, you know? I mean, bigish, that's good. I'm back to that. I actually really, I hadn't done that in a while. I've now done it. It's been, I think this is the third time or so, trying to get up there. I want to see how heavy.

I was doing the 60-pound kettlebell. Wow, dude. How many reps? I got five and then of course The one I recorded got four That's what maybe I was like Oh I should record this I haven't done this weight

Bro, that's good It was good Because what do you weigh right now 220, 220 through 30? 218 Wow Yeah yeah That's pretty good

Yeah yeah You're lighter than me 18? Yeah I'm down I out weigh you right now Yeah I've been down I've been down You're freaking balloon

Ever since you You guys Tipping the sky's 270 Yeah Bro he's not a snack dog That's a full meal right there bro. He's a hearty meal.

So that's a full meal. If he's a snack, he's keto. Yeah. Yeah. You're sure. Yeah, no, I've been, I've been down, uh, I mean, ever since you made the comment about my, my inflammation has been down. Remember when I was complaining about all that?

Yeah, yeah. All better. Yeah, all better. It's been gone. I've been, I mean, just full transparency. I've been, I've been utilizing trisepetide on a microdose. Yeah, that helps. And it's made a big difference for me.

It's actually really, we really, I know we joke about this, about our cumulative body weight, always staying the same. But it does. Like when one person loses somebody else gains, yeah. I think it's true. It is.

We should just add up our body weight. Somebody needs to do it just to see. I'm willing to bet. Because when I was... We never go within about five pounds north or south.

Probably because we first started the show. I wasn't very heavy at all. I had got issues. But I was super... But you were Jack. Yeah, yeah. And right now you're lighter. Oh, yeah.

Justin's heavy cakes. Yeah, yeah. So I only went through maybe two times where I even cared stuff. It was like, I was like 215 or something. He's like the... He's like the normal kind of about, and then you and I...

Yeah, fluctuate. Because you... A bunch of flex capacity. Yeah, you... I mean, I've been as light as... 198, 200. While on the show? Yeah.

Yeah, I was 195, I think. Yeah, so... And then as high as, like, 240. So I've, like... I got up to 230. Yeah, yeah. So you and I fluctuate the most, and he kind of stays around the same.

How light were you when you did your... transformation. Yeah, it was like 215. You got down to 2.15? Yeah. Wow. Well, that's actually not that light. It's not that far off. Well, for him, I felt real like, I mean, he's heavy right. Two 30 is a heavier way for you. Or 230 or higher than 230. Are you higher than two 30? Are you higher than 20? I'm so you hold weight well, dude. You're supposed to be, you're supposed to be, you're supposed to all your tits and ass. It's just thick. It's your butt and booms. It's under

side. It's all your tits and ass. It's all my looks so good on you. That's why I would be, that's why I put together that new program. I'm not going to tell anybody what it is, but it's kind of similar. There's a part of it. There's a category. The thick with a couple of skis. Don't give it a lie.

Don't give it a lie. That's always been me. It's good stuff. Anyways. Maps workout programs have been enjoyed by over 100,000 people, hundreds of thousands of people have followed mass programs

and gotten incredible results. They've built muscle, burn, body fat, and gotten some of the best results of their lives. Remember, these are the workout programs that myself, Justin and Adam, created

ourselves. We're the ones that wrote these programs. We have trained and coached people for many, many years. We're also hosts of this podcast. If you like, how we communicate fitness, if it resonates with you, follow one of our workout programs. You won't be, in fact, you'll be blown away. You won't be disappointed. They will work better than anything you've ever tried before. And here's what we got going on right now. We took our top 10 most popular maps programs, and we did it, buy one, get one free. So buy any one of them, get the other one for free. And it's only for top 10 most popular ones. It's happening right now. So if you want to take the leap, you want to try a Maps program, or you already have Maps programs, you want to take advantage of this promotion.

Go to Mapsbogo.com. Back to the show. Our first caller is Paul from Ontario. What's up, Paul? What's happening, man? Hey, guys, how are you doing? Good, good. How can we help you? Good. First of all, I wanted to say thank you guys for everything you do, the information you share and the no BS approach. It's very much appreciated and start this off by saying, Sal, congrats on your whole journey with Christianity and walking in faith. I think that's pretty incredible and really cool that a couple big badass fellows like yourselves are into that. Thank you so much.

Thank you. How can we help you, dude? Questions for you is just to keep it as simple and quick as possible, gentlemen. For I'm 41 years old, a career firefighter out of Kingston, Ontario. and for the average guy just wants to look good for his wife, perform for his career and be healthy for his kids. There's a lot of contradiction between workouts and what would be best kind of split, whether it be whole body split three days a week, power lifting a few times a week with kind of conditioning on the side.

What would be your advice to a fella just trying to perform better, look decent, and limited equipment? What's your schedule like? Are you like 10 on, certain days off? What's it, what's it look like right now? So it's 24 hours on, 48 off. Okay. But I fill some of my time on my days off with working side jobs as well.

And yeah, obviously fitness and health is quite a priority in my life for my family and my career. That's good. Yeah, the biggest consideration with firefighters and there's other workers that would fall in this category is stress management. Now, when I say that, people oftentimes think about, like, stressful situations at home. I mean, like, all the things that your body would deem as a stress and then try to adapt to, which includes exercise. So whenever we're introducing a form of exercise, something consistent with a firefighter, for example, the biggest consideration is stress. And because of your schedule, your sleep on a semi-regular basis is not great. That's right.

Okay. So this does not mean you can't work out. It just means we need to consider that as a top consideration whenever we're introducing an additional stress like exercise. The best consistent form of schedule with workout with a firefighter, what we have found and what I found in the past is like a Maps 15 protocol. Now, that doesn't mean you can't add other things when you feel really good, like maybe some cardiovascular conditioning or something outdoor. But when it comes to strength. training, the Maps 15 protocol would be what would give you the best results. You get the most strength and the best results from something like that. Now, there's a, we have a lot of Maps 15 style programs. If I were to pick one that would give you the best bang for your buck for your job for maybe some of the demands that can happen as a firefighter, I would look at something like Maps 15 performance. Performance, okay.

Because it's got an athletic bent to it. And so that's not just about, you know, building muscle, although it is. It's also about, like, moving well and having some athleticism. And so that would be your base routine. That would be the routine that you would do consistently. And then what you would do is you could add conditioning and stuff like that when you feel like you're feeling great. Maybe two days a week, right? Yeah.

Two days a week of some sort of conditioning on the days that are most conducive would be more than enough. Yeah. And really, you got to look at it. And here's the challenge. The challenge is, is this what I can tolerate or is this ideal? So the tendency for, you know, for people like yourself, emergency workers and people that work in kind of high stress jobs that include high stress situations is that they tend to push exercise to the taller, like what I can tolerate, what's the most I can tolerate. And that's not going to give you the best results. Do you do you use aura or whoop or anything to kind of track and monitor?

your sleep at all? No, sir, nothing like that at all. It's probably a worthwhile investment. I've had a lot of success with my clients that have schedules like yours because, you know, guys like you, what we have a tendency to do is probably push it on times and we probably shouldn't.

And so I would have you on a, like, okay, we run Mass 15. We have two days of the like cardiovascular training. And then how I would dictate how intense your workouts look like would be based off of the data we're getting and how you feel from your sleep. So like,

for example, You know, you had the last two days, you scored 80 plus on your aura ring or whatever just for using hypothetical numbers. And it's like now I'd be like, all right, Paul, we can get after. We can get after a day in your workout. Or let's say rough two days in a row. A lot of work stuff. It was you had six, two 60s. And I'm like, hey, today you go through the workout, but go through the motions.

You're not pushing weight hard. Just lifting moderate weight to easy for you and then get some good rest. So I would use a tool like that. Now you can go off of how you feel. I think that's most important But I do like having an extra data point That we can pull from and be like hey You feel good numbers are saying it's all good

Let's get after the workout today Or it's like hey man we've had two bad days in a row of sleep That's when your highest risk for injury is This is not the most optimal time for you to get after your workout today We just kind of go through the motion Here's why what Adam is saying is so important Because I've trained first responders And you just have it you guys just have a tendency

To perceive fatigue or stress. Very differently. You're supposed to do. That's what makes you good at your job. So I would have first responders and I'd be like, hey, how do you feel? And it's always like, I'm good.

I'm fine, I'm good. Yeah, yeah, no, I feel great. Let's go. I know. We'd say listen to your body. You're like, bro, you scored a 50 two days in a row and sleep. You can't be good. So objective data could be really helpful because anybody like,

I'm going to listen to the data versus like my own, you know, perception. Or a ring or whoop or something like that. It actually makes sense because it'll give you like a definitive sort of gauge of what that looks like. But that's what the protocol would look like. Would be Maps 15 performance, two days of cardio. Same thing goes with cardio, too.

Like, let's say it's a day where we had bad sleep. And it's also your, it's the day you're supposed to do some of your cardiovascular training. That would be like a low level cardio. I'd say do an hour of light jog instead of doing like intervals or sprints. Like, and then maybe it's a day where you got great rest. Hey, this might be the day that we do some interval sprints and kind of push the cardio. So literally I'm using that data and how you feel to gauge the intensity. But the protocol looks like a maps.

team performance with two days of that. And keep in mind, like, whatever routine you're doing, if it gives you more energy throughout the day, it's working. Yeah, that's engaged. If you feel kind of fried or like, oh, man, I'm recovering, you know, I'm kind of whatever, it's too much. No matter what it is, no matter what it is. That's perfectly. We have two two buddies of ours that go to the same gym as us in Cornwall here, Justin and Jesse Coleman. These guys are probably the best shape out of everybody in a gym and they push your workouts like nobody I've ever met before. They tell everybody about your workout. Oh, that's cool.

That's great. Do you take supplements, Paul? I do. I take a multivitamin, fish oil, magnesium, D3, just basic stuff, protein, creatine. Good. How much creatine do you take? Right now, it's funny, we just picked some up this morning. I was telling my daughter anywhere more than 10 grams a day.

So. Yeah. So someone like, someone like you. You could push 10 to 15 a day. Totally. And divided doses. The cognitive benefits. Yeah, it makes a big difference for sleep issues,

sleep deprivation issues. Yep. Yeah. We'll send over a MAPS performance, though, to you. So we'll send over a MAPS 15 performance. Follow that like we're talking. And, yeah, I think you're going to love it, dude. Definitely will do.

I'll take all the advice. I'll take the workout and I'll have out of it and I'll reach out to you guys and let you know how everything's going. Thanks, man. Say hi to your friends, I think we should, Justin and Jesse. Say hi to them for us. Yeah.

We'll do. Thank you. Appreciate you, guys. Thank you. You guys have trained first responders? Yeah, yeah. Lots of them. Yep.

It's all about... The schedule's rough. It's all about stress management. And they are... There are somebody who I would... Like, if he's my client, I'd make him get an aura ring because of what you said. Yep.

Because some people can... You can trust their... Hey, I've... But those guys have been trained... I would throw them in the category of my military guys, my pro-athlet guys. They just have a... Yeah, yeah, exactly.

They reframe crazy stress. Yeah, their perception of stress, lack of sleep is just way the hell off. Different. And so for someone like that, I'd be like, hey, how do you feel? And then also let's look at the data. And it's like, hey, I know you think you feel okay. But data's telling us you've had two, three days in a row of really bad sleep. We're going to do the workout today, but it's going to look real modern.

And then other times, it's like, hey, I'm feeling great. And you got great sleep. Let's get after it, you know? Yeah. Our next caller is Ryan from Ohio. Hi, Ryan. Hi, Ryan. Hello.

Hi. This is kind of crazy. Thanks for calling in. How can we help you? So if you don't mind, I'll read from my things so I don't lose focus. I'm a 36-year-old female, 5'3, currently 197 pounds, and I'm getting married next July. My goal is fat loss. I've only ever used the scale, and I've always wanted a healthier BMI. And honestly, my wedding dress is my main driving factor right now. I'm actually too nervous to even try one on for fear of how it'll fit and how I'll feel in it. I've been listening to you guys. I put a few weeks, but it's been a couple months now.

And after a rough stretch that got me thinking more carefully about how I approach this. Some quick background about myself. I've done CrossFit in the past, 2016 to 2022, cycled through kids. keto, 75 hard, calorie tracking on and off since 2009. And this past year, it went deep into extended fasting, mostly 24-hour at Omad up to 74 hours once, alongside starting, then tapering off of an SSRI. The fasting caught up with me, and I had a few fainting and blood sugar crash episodes that scared me and my fiancee enough that I stopped. I'm a high school teacher, and I devote most of my summers to a solid routine and schedule.

But once school starts back, the stress takes over and I lose momentum, especially going into the holidays too. I have a garage gym and a new online trainer. He's a family member newly certified. I put that he gave me a five-day PPL, but it's actually three days of PPL and two days of movement. So like a bike, rower, just some sweat. And I've now been getting 9,000 plus steps a day. He gave me macro targets.

My fiancé thinks that I should be doing more cardio and eating more carbs and less protein because I have since went up a pants size and that kind of drove me to sending this email to you guys. The macros I've been given is 2,000 calories, 150 grams of protein, 205 carbs, 65 grams of fat. Just wondering if that's right for my goals. I've genuinely never approached this any other way than straight caloric deficit, and that's probably been my problem. I don't have any other frame of reference for bulk versus cut versus maintenance phases.

I've never really looked into how to apply those or how to think about a new timeline or pacing toward my wedding. It's going to be in July of next year. So what I'd love your take on is how would you evaluate whether those macros I've been given make sense for someone with my past and my goals, what's a realistic and sustainable timeline for my wedding date a year out, and how phases like bulk, cut maintenance should factor in for someone like me. My experience has always been eat less, move more, and fall off the wagon under stress. So I love your perspective on that. And I just want to say thank you for this show. It's generally part of what pushed me to slow down and think about things differently. I have not went the cardio route this summer, which is a first.

Yeah, Ryan, congratulations. First of all, congratulations. And we got plenty of time. Yeah. I was just, that's a good thing. I'm so happy you called in. Yes. And we have a lot of time, which is great. It's very challenging when someone says, I'm getting married in two months. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm worried about that.

So we're going to do this the right way. Okay. So let me ask you specifically. Is it okay if I ask you some more questions? Oh, yeah. I wrote down my answers because I just, I knew I'd be so nervous and I wanted to make sure I had a good train of thought. Yeah, yeah, no worries. And I get you being nervous.

And just remember, we were trainers for a long time. We're trainers. We do the show, but really we're trainers at heart. So this is what we love doing the most. Okay. So what would you say is your specific goal? Let's paint a clear picture. So you're getting married in July. What is it that you want to accomplish by them? I ultimately keep telling people I want to look and feel the best I've ever felt. And I feel like I've always said that. And yet I'm always trying this and trying that to the point of like, I don't know if I give up too soon, if it's my consistency that's not on point. I know when I was doing CrossFit, I could go six days a week, but my diet wasn't dialed in. Or I'd have my diet dialed in, but my exercise wasn't, or strength goals in that matter. But I don't mind getting stronger and feeling better. I would love my clothes to fit better, to be honest with you. And I think that's what's holding me back right now is, you know, putting so much time and energy into this and not feeling like I'm seeing results. I've been listening to you guys enough to hear about like body fat percentages. So I scheduled an in-body scan for Friday.

So that's coming up. So I think I'm going to try and use that as tracking instead of the bathroom scale. Okay. So let me try to paraphrase a little bit. And you let me know if I'm if I'm on point or off. Okay. So by July of next year, you want to look healthy. You want to feel healthy.

You want to get rid of this kind of confusion around what it was you've done in the past and why it didn't work. And is it a consistency issue or was it the method? Like, I want to do this essentially the right way. Would you say that that's, okay. Can you give me something objective by July just so I can kind of help plan this out for you? So feel healthy, look healthy. Do you have a weight goal?

Do you have a size goal? I would love to lose a couple pants sizes. I would love to not be the weight that I'm at. I feel it at 5.3, you know, I've heard callers call in and, you know, they're 130 pounds and I'm pushing 200. And I just, I fear that, like, you know, you say when your strength training to feed yourself and eat more calories, I'm almost afraid that, like, I'm going to be stuck at this, like, bulkier size or, like, I don't know how to, how to shrink down, I guess. Yeah, that's a, but everything you're feeling is super normal. You feel like almost every client I ever met when they first came to hire me.

I like to have an objective number because this helps me paint a picture a little bit better. Okay, so I heard you say. Okay, 150 would be great. Okay, cool. Okay, so let's like about 45 pounds. Yeah. Okay. So 45 pounds of loss.

Can I throw some things in there, like get stronger, more energy, more fit? Okay. We got plenty of time. Here's what it would look like, okay? Now, there's, of course, because you're an individual, there's, you know, I'm going to give you kind of general, but every individual is a little bit different, kind of what this looks like.

And the big difference between people is how this affects them mentally. Yeah. Because it is hard. It is not easy. Doing this the right way is very difficult. Let me explain why, okay? Because you're giving us a great timeline,

the focus initially is on giving you a, quote unquote healthy metabolic rate. I want to get your metabolism to burn more calories on its own. This is going to set us up for effective sustainable fat loss later. Okay? Because if we do this the old way where you go move as much as you can and you eat as little as you can, here's what ends up happening. The body adapts its metabolic weight downward to match the caloric intake.

So you're moving like crazy and initially you'll see some weight loss on the scale. But then you plateau real hard. Real hard. And then you're in this position where you're like, okay, I'm working out five days a week. I'm starving. I kind of don't feel good. I've lost some weight, but I'm like burnt out because I'm doing all this stuff. And now I, nothing's happening.

What do I do? Work out more? Do I eat less? And so you go down this unsustainable spiral where eventually what it ends up turning into is, I don't want to do this anymore. This sucks. And you give up. And if that sounds familiar, then you're in a good,

company because that's how everybody approaches this. Now, on the flip side, when you do this right, here's what it feels like. And this is, I'm going to tell you what's hard about it. Okay. What it feels like is I'm getting stronger. I'm building muscle. I'm eating a little more. I'm feeding myself. I have more energy. I'm sleeping better. My libido's higher. The scale isn't moving. Okay. What's going on? Why isn't the scale moving? And then a good coach is going to say, hey, look, we're moving in the right direction. Don't worry. We're going, we're in the build phase. we're going to set you up for the cut later. Then when you're ready,

when we have a metabolic rate that gives us runway, meaning I've got your body burning so many calories on its own that I can cut your calories and you're not in this place we're eating nothing. I'd like to get you to a place where 2,000 calories is a deficit.

That's your deficit. That's your diet. Then you see body fat come off your body and you've got sculpted and shape and strength. And by the way, that requires less effort in the gym than trying to manually burn calories on your own.

Getting your body to burn more calories on its own is a much easier. It's like putting money in an account that earns money on its own versus you having to work every hour for every dollar that you want to earn. So that's the setup and then the cut. Now, in between that,

there are interruptions that tend to happen. So, okay, I'm a little, like if you're my client, what will probably happen kind of reverse diet build phase is you're going to probably, you know, text me and say things like, what's going on? I need to see the scale move. I need to say, okay, fine, I'll give you a couple weeks of cut so I can show you some movement, but then we're going to go back on the reverse. And so it's going to be some coaching through that process. But that's what it kind of looks like.

It's more of a snowball effect versus the old way of doing it where you get this quick drop off in this hard plateau and then it doesn't work. So there's a little bit more patience involved than it feels different. It's also very serious. scary, Ryan, because you're used to restricting yourself to see anything happen. And now you're trying to nourish yourself. And that's going to make you be like, I'm going to gain all this weight. What's going to happen? I'm going to get all this body fat type of deal.

The exciting part about this is that the psychological part is difficult. The workouts in the eating part is actually easier than what you've done before. It's not 75 hard. It is not CrossFit. It is not eating once a day. It is far more balanced. you should feel good. You should feel good energy.

You should feel strength. You should sleep well. All the things Sal was talking about and take way less effort. Yeah. It should not feel like you went from not doing much cardiovascular work and steps and not really lifting weights. So all of a sudden, now you're doing five, six days of all these things. And every day getting on, like, it shouldn't look like that. It should like this beautiful, gradual introduction of we now do this.

Okay. We were doing that for a while, getting stronger. Okay, we're now going to add a little bit of this. It should be this beautiful dance and feel good along the way, not extreme. It does not, for what we need, for as much run as time we have and what you're trying to do, which is very realistic, we've got plenty of time to do this perfect and right. Ryan, can I ask you a stupid question? Okay.

When you, let's say it by July, you lose the weight, you feel great. You get married. Do you want to gain the weight back? I honestly think that family planning would be in our future. So yes, in some regards, but not in. Aside from gaining healthy pregnancy. That's never where you got a baby in you. Aside from gaining healthy body, baby weight and having a baby.

Do you want to get married, you're fit, and then just stop everything and it become like? No. I mean, I've invested quite a bit of money in my garage gym and I, I enjoy it. I just always felt like I wasn't doing. enough kind of like that mentality like go hard go hard like it's almost hard like to take a rest a day I mean someone would have to literally tell me you need to not do something today or just go for a walk I'm the type of person that's like I'm in it but like I also need to see results or else I start flipping out and um it is mental it is definitely that's the coaching part yeah that's why the coaching

part is huge if you so here's the thing so the goal is and I I know it's a stupid question because I know what the answer was going to be, is to get you to a place where you feel great, you look great, and it's sustainable. This is now part of your lifestyle, it's part of your family's lifestyle, but you're not doing five, six days away. Here's a deal. You're not a fitness fanatic. 99.9% of people are not.

Like fitness fanatics work in fitness. The average person, fitness isn't their life. It makes their life better. And so what you don't want to do is come up with the routine that's so ineffective, so inefficient that you're devoting all this time in the gym and you're beating the crap out of yourself. Here's the problem. A lot of people equate soreness, pain, and sweat to effectiveness. That's not, those are not markers of an effective workout. I mean, if that was an effective workout, you could just do jumping jacks in place as fast as you could until you couldn't breathe anymore,

and then, you know, congratulations, you had a great workout. It's not how it works. There's a science behind it, and when you do it right, your body works for you. Here's what it's going to feel. like, and you're one of my favorite people to work with, because here's what happens when you're doing it right. You're going to come back to me and go, this is weird. This feels easy. My body's responding and I feel like I'm doing nothing. That's the response that tends to happen because of the ways that you've done it before,

which is like the wrong way, which means you're just busting your butt and starving yourself type of deal. So there's two options I'm going to give you, okay? One is far more guaranteed to provide success than the other. but I'll give you a couple options. So option one, I'm going to give you a free program. You can follow it. Listen to our podcast for nutrition advice and stuff like that.

Try to piece it together. I don't think, I looked at your macros. Nothing necessarily wrong with them. But it would be like bringing your car to somebody and saying, hey, what's wrong with it? And the mechanic doesn't even look at the car to tell. So I don't know what you were doing before. I don't know how your body's responding.

And so I don't know if that's what your coach did, if they had your track and count. and they went off. I don't know any of that. It doesn't look bad on the surface, but I don't know if it's right or wrong for you. But I could send you a workout that I think would be a great place to start. Second option is I could set you up for a call with one of my coaches that I know is good because we hire them ourselves. And then if it works out, you could work with them for nine months to a year, have them take you all the way to your wedding and set you up. And essentially they're going to coach you the whole time. The whole time you're with them. That's definitely the turnkey. They're modifying everything. The workout is. individualized, the nutrition is individualized. Every time you struggle, your challenge, you text them, you message them, and they work with you the entire way through. And I'm very proud of our

coaches. We're very, very difficult on how we hire people, but they're excellent. So if you want, I can set you up with a call with a coach. Either way, I'm going to send you a free program, regardless of what you decided to do. Just to add some more clarity to what Sal is saying around the diet part. Right now, I'm not sure, again, what the trainer's goal is right now, but the goal should be to reverse diet right now. So I'm not sure if he or she put you on this thinking that and added the steps and the activity and everything is like let's start getting cut and leaning out. If that was their strategy, it's the wrong strategy right now. So I'm not sure if that's the strategy right now should be to reverse diet. We're trying to build right now. We're trying to build some

strength. You have plenty of time to cut. We're going to like cutting is way down the road. Right now we're building. And you cannot build in a calorie. deficit. So you can, you're not going to build muscle on a calorie. I don't care how much weights you lift. If you don't feed the body what it needs to build muscle, it won't build muscle. So that should be the focus right now is let's build, let's build a muscle, let's get strong, let's feed your body what it needs to do that. And then when we get our calories to a place and let's say somewhere it's going to be like 2,800 calories, where you're not gaining weight on the scale, you feel strong, workouts are great. Then we stare, step down and cut. Then we start adding

steps, we start adding cardio. That's when we start, but that's way down the road. Right now, we build the metabolism up. We build that engine, so it's working for you. So that, that's, that's what Sal's not sure about if that's what the trainer was setting you up for right now, that you, you may have been so low at calories that 2,000 calories is a reverse diet for you. I don't know. But if that feels like a cut, that's not where we would put you to start you off. Just add to that. Yeah. I honestly don't know either. I, I know that last, year, I wasn't eating breakfast or lunches. It was pretty much I'd get home three or four and I'd have a pretty big, sustainable meal. And I've always used like real food. I follow like an online. They send a meal prep thing

every Sunday. And I cook and I make stuff at home. So it's never been like, you know, ready, make processed food. It's been real food, but it's just probably not been enough food. And so I think that that's what happened is I fasted for so long and my body started sending me red flags like, yo, you're starving us. And I think now I'm like in that, I keep, people

keep telling me it's water retention or this and that. But really, I think that my body's just holding on to something out of safety. So I'm not really sure. That's, I think, part of the confusion. It totally could be. All you

need, you're actually, all you need is really good guidance through this process. That's all you need. You're set up nice. You got a home gym. You got meals being prepped for you. You eat whole foods. There's no reason. We don't crush your goals out the park just so you know. By the way, I don't think this is a lack of discipline. No. It was just unsustainable. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's a lack of discipline. I don't think it's a lack of focus. Too hard right out of the gates. In fact, you would do really well if you gave the focus to someone else. If you outsourced it and you said, hey, coach, let me know what to do and then trust the process. And here's what it'll feel like when you do it the right way. First off,

probably don't weigh yourself, okay, because that's going to mess with your head. But what it'll feel like is you're just initially going to feel better. You're just like, man, I got good energy. Okay. I got, I added 10 pounds to my, you know, my squat. I'm feeling good. I got more energy at work. My libido's up. Like, okay, this is cool. My body doesn't look like it's changing yet, although your fiancee will probably say something like, you look a little firmer or, hey, are you losing weight? You know, I don't know if I am. And so that's going to be what it's going to feel like before you start to see the radical changes in the mirror, you're just going to start to feel better from doing that.

But really good coaching. I think you would do really well with through this process, and it would set you up for the rest of your life. Just hearing you guys say these things, it's kind of reassurance. I think I needed to hear it. You know, I guess I've been getting mixed messages from so many different sources and not sure what was best for me.

and confusion along with, you know, like the scale not moving. But I hope that when I get the in-body scan, I can, you know, check it every quarter or so many months. Exactly. Yep. No, that would be good. Exactly what a good coach would use that. And honestly, I would use it and not even let you see it.

I'd say, go get the in-body scan. I want to see it. I'll be the one to be that will dictate where we go from here, just because I don't want none of that stuff to mess with your head. But it is a good data point for us. But like Sal said, things that we're really focused on right now, energy, strength.

You will feel, like, you'll feel like your body's firming up. And that's why you stay away from the scale because the scale could easily shoot up five pounds and you actually fell and look better until you got on the scale and you saw that number. So, like, that's why we'll tell somebody like you, like you, don't look at that right now because you'll get like this husband will say a compliment.

You'll feel tighter. You'll feel stronger. You'll be like, man, I feel good. Then you get on scale. And the scale, it went up five pounds. And then you go like, oh, my God, you feel like a failure. Then all of a sudden your attitude changes.

It's like, what? And then that's where people, People course correct. Then they freak out. They start changing it. When we're in reality, they were heading right where I want them to head. That was perfect, but they got in their own way. So I think MAPS Anabolic would be a good program for you.

I would do pre-phase for about four weeks. And then I would move into phase one and go from there. I like walking. You said 9,000 steps a day. That's perfectly fine. That's great. And if you're open to just having a call with one of our coaches, who I can vouch for, I can make sure I set up, I set something up for you, and you can get on the phone,

and you can get in more detailed conversation with them about some of the stuff. Sure. I'm open to anything, really, at this point. Awesome. And thanks for listening. Keep listening. We talk about this stuff all the time. And listen to the callers.

You're going to hear a lot of callers who sound similar to you. Very familiar. And a lot of similar advice you'll hear. Yep. And I just need to shout out my best friend, Amanda. She had purchased Muscle Mommy from you guys, and she was the one that told me to give you a listen. Awesome. Thank you.

you guys. See you later. Nope. Yeah, she's very typical, very common. I'm so glad she's calling us now. Yes,

right now. There's plenty of time. Doable. Very doable. Very doable. If she's with one of our, I'll say this right now, if she works with one of our coaches

through that entire process, her success rate is all but guaranteed. For sure. Unless something crazy happens, it's all but guaranteed. Yeah, I hope. You know,

she's already, I hope. She needs guidance, well, not just any guidance, too, though. A brand, a brand new trainer to take

her three years by. I know, dude. That's the thing. The diet, I don't know how they set up the calories and macros. But what it sounds to me... It sounds like that he put her on thinking that's a cut. Or it's like a standard 2,000 calories. Like that's what the RDA says, 2,000 calories.

I'm guessing, but that's what it sounds like that they did. I mean, regardless of whether how the goal should be from here is to add calories. Let's get you strong. Yeah. Let's get her strong. Let's get her feeling good, which is going to trip her out. She's probably never felt that through working out. Yeah.

And let's set this up. And we have plenty of time. Our next caller is Melissa from Nebraska. Hi, Melissa. Hello. Hello. Hi, guys. How are you?

I'm doing great. And it's real to be here. Well, I, so I'll do the same thing everyone does is, you know, read my question. It's changed just a little bit, but started my road back to fitness in September of 2025. I'm 43, 5'4. I started at well over 300 pounds. Everything was difficult. You know, everything health.

was starting to plummet, so I was pre-diabetic and sleep apnea and high blood pressure and, you know, just everything was bad. I decided I was done living that way, 100% still feel that way. So to date, I've lost 60 pounds, significantly stronger. I started with about 87 pounds of lean muscle mass. I still have about 80 pounds of lean muscle mass. Body fat has gone down about 7%. So I'm no longer pre-diabetic and blood pressure is normal and no sleep apnea. So out of the goods, so to speak, incredible. That's been great. That's incredible.

Incredible. And just so you know, to be down that many pounds and only lose that much muscle is incredible. The ratio. So you did a good job, obviously, of strength training, eating protein like you're supposed to. So well, well done. Very good. Thank you.

Thank you. It's been, this is by far the best way I've ever tried to get in shape. You've heard all the stories. I tried to do it the wrong way many times. This has been awesome. So I worked with a trainer, a fantastic trainer, for about six months. And working with him, I lost about 14 pounds before. And I just, it was really struggled to get nutrition under wraps.

So I started on a GLP1 in January. And my plan all along was, you know, short term. I didn't want to be on that long term. I was just trying to get, you know, the right habits put in place. So I was on two and a half milligrams of that's down for pretty much the whole time. I went up to five milligrams for about six weeks. My initial question, I was really struggling with, you know, when do I taper off of the med? Because I still have about, you know, 60 pounds left to go.

I still have a lot of weight left to lose. And so about a week after I submitted my question, I just kind of get angry. And I said, I don't want to do it anymore. So I just skipped it. And I thought, I'll do two weeks. And then two weeks went by and I kept feeling good. And it's been about a month. And I've kept feeling good.

I'm down about three pounds since then. Oh, good. And I think the hunger that I have is what you're supposed to, feel. It hasn't been, you know, wicked cravings or anything like that. So my question now is, what is your advice to go from here, you know, knowing your background with peptides? Like, is there anything that I need to look out for in terms of microdosing or, you know, I don't want to hit a wall and, you know, relapse or anything? And then I guess just a little bit on training. I've fallen in love with strength training. So I do that three or four days a week. I'm on

phase three of MAPS Anabolic, which I've loved. So my lifts are bench, about 120, deadlift, about 215, and squat 205. Overhead press. I got cocky on this one. I was at 95 pounds, but I could only get up to like three or four reps. So that one's tougher. And I'm about 2,200 probably calories a day on average, at about 180 grams of protein.

And then on off days, I try to do very, very. very basic Pilates and yoga and then just walking and pool stuff on my off days. So I guess my question is on the GLP1 side, what should I watch out for, plan for, or do anything with? And then on the training side, knowing that I still have a lot to go, what are the guardrails? I guess I should keep myself in. Melissa, you are doing great. Yeah, you did a great job. Very great. The way you're handling this. Yeah, great job. Really good. What, you mind if I ask you some more questions. Sure. Yeah. What's the difference now, or let me, let me ask you this differently, before you started on this journey, what were the things that got you to where you were? Because that's

going to help me. Yeah. Well, you know, I tried keto before and, you know, I'd lose a bunch of pounds and gain it all back and my mood was terrible. And, you know, I would try to, you know, do all kinds of cardio, which I hate and I'm really bad. And, you know, I just, I guess I had the same mindset that all our people did is that's what you had to do to get in shape. And I'd always been kind of naturally strong when I was afraid of, you know, looking manly or whatever. So I thought that, well, I have to do cardio. And like, just nothing worked. And I got myself to a point where, like, I just kept hitting brick wall after brick wall and it just kind of gave up. And I poured all of my focus and attention on career.

You know, and like I sit at a desk and I stare at a computer and that only works for so long until you just, I just hit a wall. I said, I'm going to kill myself if I keep living like this. It's not good. And like my, I have two little nephews. They're seven and four. And one day they said Aunt Melissa, will you come on the floor and play with us? They're playing with cars or whatever.

And I had to ask them to move the cars up to the coffee table because it was too hard for me to get up and done off the floor. And I was like, this is not how. I am, not how I want to live, not how I want to show up for these boys. So, yeah, I guess just long story short, I think I have kind of the same trajectory as a lot of people did until I just, I had to wake up or it wasn't going to go well. Yeah. And I'm glad you're starting, you're, kind of on this journey and doing what seems to be a lot of the right things. You're kicking ass right now. I would love to coach, I want to, I want to take you the rest of the way. You're doing so good

and you're set up so nice, I would love for you to work with our team. Yeah. You're set up beautifully right now. You've done such a good job. The fact that you've come off this GLP1 for a whole month and you didn't, what happens to a lot of people after about two weeks, the appetite starts to kick back up and then people go off the rails and bad habits.

So the fact that you've been able to keep that in check is huge. Just so you know, too, though, there's nothing. I've had this with clients where we're off for a while. Then we use it. We bring it back in and we microdose it for a little bit. So that's not a failure to do that if we find it necessary to do that at one point. But the fact that you've done this already, how good job. Love that you have leaned into getting strong and that that is your strength.

That is going to be the thing that is your saving grace, the fact that you are naturally strong. And I would lean you more into that. It's like, let's keep getting strong and building more muscle right now. And I think you're ready for that. I think we're ready to build for a little bit before we come back down again. That would be the approach. Now, in the past, had you lost weight before and gained it back when you had gone through that?

Yeah. I lost about 60 pounds doing keto, but it was really fast loss. And then I gained probably 80 back. It was, yeah, really rapid. Typical. That typically happens or something like that. If you could put yourself in the mindset of when you had done this in the past, let's say in the beginning, when it's going great, did you feel motivated?

Did it feel like, yeah, I think I'm doing this right before things started changing? Not really. I think I had, you know, the initial excitement of awesome. I'm losing weight. That's really cool. And I'm going to ignore the fact that my breath is bad and all these other than. And I feel miserable. It's awful. But I, you know, and like in high school, I was super athletic. But, you know, strength training for women was never really a thing. Like you'd go in and use a few machines in the weight room. I'd never ever tried, you know, strength training the way I'm doing it now. And I think that's for me the biggest game changer. Good, good. Yeah, the reason why I'm asking this question is because when you, if we do this the right way, obviously it's more effective, it's more sustainable, you feel better, doesn't feel like you're, you know, slamming yourself up against the wall. Yeah.

That being said, if we do this right, we're going to be doing this for hopefully the rest of your life, right? So you'll have some kind of exercise the rest of your life and nutrition habits and lifestyle really changes. But life changes through that process. And there are going to be periods of time and life, this is just what happens to everyone, where you're not going to feel so happy about it. You're not going to feel so motivated because, I don't know, work or life or stress,

or now you've been doing it for a while and doesn't seem as exciting. And so that's when things start to get really challenging. It's not challenging when you love it because challenging when you start to not like it so much. And so what a good coach is going to do is going to move you through that process. the coach's goal is to get you to your results but the main goal for the coach is can I get Melissa to be able to do this for the rest of her life that's what that's what a good coach is going to really do and you're you're starting to do things the right way the way the things that I'll caution you on is jumping in with this great mood great attitude and doing everything

like man I'm active every day I'm doing math setabolic and I'm doing yoga and because there's nothing wrong with it. If it's appropriate, there's nothing wrong with it, except it's a lot. It's a lot more than maybe what you were doing before. Oh, yeah. I was a catch-up. Right.

And so what can happen is you go through one of those tough bouts of life that we all do. Like, oh, my God, I'm going to, you know, five days a week, I got to do this thing. And then you skip two or three days. You start to feel like a failure. And you're like, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. I can't maintain this. And then you stop. And so what we want to do is we want to avoid.

that old cycle. So whatever you decide to add or do, you got to go into it with the mentality of, is this something I can maintain for the rest of my life, even in those periods of time when I'm not going to want to. That's more important than, let's see how much I can get done right now. Great. That makes sense.

Now, a good coach is going to take you through that process. And you're actually in a great place to work. Great place. With a really, really good coach who's going to work you through this entire process. As far as a GLP is concerned, it has profound effects on appetite, but it also changes neural pathways because old behaviors aren't practiced while you're on it.

So although hunger may come back, it may not feel like it used to. Now, that doesn't mean you can't go back to where you were before because oftentimes we will reach out for food because we're hungry, but also because we're stressed or also because we're bored.

And then you can rebuild those old neural pathways. And so what Adam said is very common. You get back on. The GLP, work through that again, come back off. two or three cycles before you're like, I'm totally off. But the question of where you, because I read your email and part of your question was, where should I invest my finances? The most effective thing you could do is work with a good coach. More effective than a GLP, more effective

than anything else is working with a good coach who's going to be a work you through this entire process and get you there. So that's the most valuable thing you can invest in for sure. And if you do end up having to do GLP one again, we'll save you some money going through a different route than what you're probably going through right now. You're probably paying top dollar for it. Yeah, yeah, direct. And it's so expensive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll help you. We'll help you. We'll help you through that process. Yeah, because it looks like you were using the brand name, not the compound pharmacy. Yeah, yeah. Compound it is less. Yeah, yeah, way less.

Same compound. And better. So, you can adjust. You can titrate it. Yeah. So better. Okay. Yep.

Sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. No. And there's questions, like guardrails for calorie. Am I in the right spot? You know, about 2200. So you are right now.

So what our coach would do with you, though, is reverse diet at you from here. So you would actually start to build those calories, especially if you told me too, you already see the appetite is naturally coming up is a good sign. If we make the right choices with food. So I'm just to use hypothetical numbers. So you get kind of an idea what the vision looks like. It would look like we start ramping these calories up. We get it closer to 2,800 calories, and then bring you back down again.

And then we do that. And what will happen is weight loss right now will plateau a little bit. if we do this correctly, strength will go up. So you'll start feeling good in the gym. Scale weight's kind of staying the same, but you're eating more, you're feeling stronger. We get our calories up there. Then I go, okay, let's take them down.

We take them down. Weight starts dropping off to scale again. We do that for a while. Then we're going to reverse, we kind of play in that game. Do that for a while. Weight comes down. Then we reverse back up again, come back down.

And we should see this beautiful over the next nine months to a year of just you continue to get stronger and better shape. And not a lot of crazy. Like you're already doing plenty of activity. So there, there, does this isn't, I don't need you to do more of more stuff. It's more of the right balance and focus and, and consistency. And then also being there for you in those moments and times where we don't feel as motivated and coaching you to that process because that's where the curveball and change.

Yeah. And I'll give you a few rules with diet that'll help. Besides counting macros calories, a few rules. Whole natural foods. If you just avoid heavily processed foods, stick to whole. natural foods, make sure you have, it's protein-centric. So aim for high-protein. Eat the protein first.

Then that right there is a real nice natural guardrail to go way off the deep end. That's it. And what helps a lot with that, Melissa, is meal prepping. Yep. Meal prepping helps a lot. Yeah. It's been helpful. Yeah.

Takes the guesswork out of it. Yeah, because it's a lot easier to be like, I'm hungry. Okay, I can eat. I'm going to eat this whole natural meal versus I can't eat anything. or I'm counting my calories, but what's in there's hyper palatable processed foods, which make the appetite go even higher. Yeah, because what I did before. My snack would be a whole meal of just junk.

Yeah, right. That's awesome. All right. That's awesome. I just, I want to say thank you guys. I've been listening to you since I started this whole process. Awesome.

And you've reinforced some good decisions and you kept me from making some really foolish ones. So I tell everybody just, you know, dial in, listen to these guys. They know what they're talking about. So thank you. Really appreciate it. If you're open, I can have one of my coaches call you. You could talk to them about what it looks like to work with a mind pump coach. There's two options.

One is a much lower investment than the other because we created it particularly to help make it more affordable. So there are a couple options, but at the very least you can ask some questions. Sure. I hope we add you to the family because it's going to be fun to watch this process for the next year. You're doing great. Awesome. All right. Thanks, guys.

Really appreciate it. You got it. All right. Thanks. Bye-bye. Well, I'm glad she's, uh, great job. Yeah, she's approaching it the right way.

The challenge is going to be, because I can hear it in her voice, she's like, I feel good, I'm motivated, let's do this. The challenge is always adding, throwing way too many things at herself because she feels good about it. She wants to do a lot more movement or something else to add. And then the inevitable will happen, you know, she's not going to have that same feeling. And then it's like, now I'm done. Or I can't do this anymore and I can't maintain it.

And so that's really the challenge. But if she's working with one of our coaches, I am confident. Oh, they'll walk her up. I hope she does. I mean, I love getting a hold of somebody like this where she's at. She's such a good place. She did such a good job already.

I mean, I knew it as soon as I saw the 60 pounds down and only seven pounds loss of muscle. Because it's hard to drop that much weight in the time that she did from September to now and not lose some muscle. I mean, so our goal is always to hold on. And obviously, perfect is lose 60 and you know, lose no one. But that is very difficult to do. Well, I'm just going to say this. On a GLP, we use. see across the board is about a 30 to 40% lean body mass loss.

So 60 pounds would have looked like 20 pounds. That's right. Of lean body mass, not to mention of that seven pounds, I don't know how she tested her body fat, but most ways of measuring count fluid as lean body mass. It's non-fat mass. Right. So that could be she's down water weight too. That's right.

So she probably, and if she got stronger, which she said she did. Yes. I'm like, I'm confident she lost. She was an exit plan and everything. Oh, G. It was perfect. Great numbers, too, already on bench, squad, overhead prep. She's strong, and she's doing that on like 2,000 calories or 22.

Wait, we start to reverse. Anabolic. Man, we start to reverse diet her and get her really strong. That metabolism is going to be roaring. And then she's just going to see the weight loss. Keep coming. She'll be great. Our next caller is Meredith from Texas.

Meredith. How are you? We got you. Oh, thank you. Sorry about that. It's all right. Hey, no, I'm glad you called back. I was looking forward to talking with you.

How can we help you? Well, first. of all, I want to, like everybody else, just give a big shout out and thank you. Because you guys have just really been such a, you know, a great just part of my life. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'm just going to read my question. My name is Meredith. I've been married for 24 years. I'm a mom of three teenagers. I've been a personal trainer for over 20 years. I've been a listener since 2017, OG. All right.

Thanks to y'all. I've really built the body into the body that I've wanted. September 29th, 2023, when I thought I was in the best shape of my life, I was 44 years old and had a grand mal seizure. I was taken to the ER when they diagnosed me with metastatic, stage four, metastatic melanoma of the brain. I underwent emergency brain surgery to remove the cancerous tumor that they could operate on. But I also had another one that I was sent to MD Anderson for immunotherapy. But the immunotherapy triggered encephalitis.

I was hospitalized for 12 days with severe inflammation on my brain. Praise God, I was able to come home, but it was the hardest time of my life. I didn't know my name. I hallucinated. I hardly knew who my family was. I couldn't be left alone. This also triggered over a dozen seizures, very serious seizures for over two years. I'm so grateful to say now that I am cancer-free, seizure-free, and I'm working my way back into the gym. Praise God. Awesome, man. So here's my question. As experienced coaches, How would you program strength, muscle, and conditioning for someone like me whose biggest limitation is not necessarily my muscles, but it's a recovering brain and nervous system?

What would you prioritize to maximize performance without overwhelming the nervous system? I think this could really help not just me, but anyone from recovering from brain injuries, neurological, neurological. conditions and or cancer treatments. Thank you so much for all that y'all do. Oh, Meredith. God bless you. Thanks for calling in. Tell me about not overwhelming your CNS. What does that feel like when that starts to get overwhelmed? What are the things that make it feel that tend to push it in that direction? When I get my heart rate up, of course, getting my heart rate up really sends my central nervous system into kind of that fight or flight real shaky.

I've come so far though and I keep trying to give myself grace because I couldn't even lift a bar when I first got back into the gym. I tried to lift a dumbbell. Couldn't lift a dumbbell. So I went down to bands. And I started with bands and I've I've, I've successfully finished performance, and I'm not where I was, of course, but I'm just trying to find my new norm. Okay.

How thin is the line between, like, is it very thin between like, this is my workout? And if I just go just a little too far, I start to get this bad reaction. Is that what that feels like? Yes. Okay. Exactly. Okay. But you've been progressing this whole time.

I am. Yes. Excellent. So my advice is going to sound a little generic, but your focus is going to be on range of motion technique. You're going to slow breathe through the workout. I also think turning the lights down or being in a semi-dark room while doing it. So what we're trying to do is minimize stimulus. Long rest periods.

Okay. Long rest periods. And I like stability-based movements for you. Yeah. Where you've got to really focus. So like physiological ball exercises, unilateral type. exercises and the focus is on the technique more than anything. And then when it feels like you've way surpassed the resistance that you're using,

then you move up the weight. In other words, typically, when we're not dealing with a very sensitive central nervous system, if you feel like you can add weight, you add weight. But what I would do with someone like you is we wouldn't add weight until it's like, this is so easy. Then I'd add weight. Have you worked with a suspension trainer much? I do.

Okay. Yeah. It's boring. Just being honest. I mean, that's fair. That's fair. I mean, there is ways to intensify. I just think that the stability component to that and the focus on your body positioning would be really helpful to build off of that.

Obviously, getting to the weights is going to be, you know, more interesting. But I do think a good period that you could really kind of focus down on that and like take your time and, you know, really paying attention to your breathing and like, you know, really pay attention to your breathing. and like where you're squeezing, where you're feeling is going to make a big difference. Yes. So it's going to feel like while you're doing your sets, you're trying to keep your CNS down. So while you're doing the sets here,

it's very controlled, very... Keep it calm. Yes. It's not like the traditional strength training. And you drive. Like what we're trying to do is we're trying to keep things relaxed as we add a little bit of stress on the body to set the adaptation in motion for strength.

The fact that you're... getting stronger. Great sign. Yeah. Yes. That's an excellent sign. You're moving in the right direction. Are you doing anything that helps bring the CNS down?

Are you doing anything that feels recuperative or rejuvenating for yourself? Walking is huge. Walking, sleeping a lot more. I've never been a good sleeper. So I've really prioritized my sleep. You know, I have low blood sugar. So I have had to probably eat every couple, you know, a few hours. And I make sure it's protein and fat is my, my main goal.

Okay. Do you? I was doing a lot of yoga and slow breathing. Yes. Yeah. I kind of got away from that. But I can, I think, you know, incorporating that again would probably be. Yes.

Treat yourself some massages. I was just going to say that. Massage therapy or something like you calm that central nerve, relax. Especially foot massage. So, yeah, so, you know, we went through a period. My wife went through a period after we had our son. It was a very traumatic birth process. And she was in a place where her CNS would get,

it was like a tripwire. Like once it went off, she was in this kind of fighter flight state. And it was like she couldn't apply intensity. And one thing that we found that to this day now, I make sure she does this because it increases a resilience for everything else. So that's the way you want to look at it, because sometimes a little guilt could set in, especially for a mom. It's like, oh, I'm doing this thing when I should be doing these other things that I'm doing.

And I'm like, you know, I got to take care of all these other things. And I explain to my wife, and she now gets it. When you do this thing, it increases your, it improves your resilience for everything else. So here's what she does. She goes to the mall. We have a mall that's not too far from us. And they have foot massages there. And she sits down.

She gets her feet rubbed, which for her brings everything down quite a bit. And then for her, she reads her Bible. which also is a very meditative process for her. And when she does this once a week, and sometimes I make her go more because something stressful happened or something in the family, and she comes back and it's like her stress bucket grew.

It increases her resilience. And so that's something that I would recommend to you as well. If that's something that you enjoy, I'm not a massage person, but if that's something where you could sit down for 30 minutes, it almost recharges your batteries a little bit and you can sit and read. And what it'll do is it'll do,

is it'll improve your body's ability to adapt to your exercise and make you more resilient for other things. So because when you're looking at health, like a big health sphere, what we tend to do, especially as trainers, is we got workouts and diet. And then we don't count anything else. And then sometimes we get smarter and we throw in sleep, but nothing else counts. And it's like, no, no, sometimes massage or meditation is part of the formula because it actually helps everything else.

So I don't know if that resonates with you, but. No, I do. I love that, Sal. I have been super consistent now that I can. I used to not be able to listen or read. Now I've been able to get outside every morning. I put my feet in the grass and I open up my Bible. Oh, wonderful. And I spend a good 20 minutes before anybody's awake and I have my quiet time and that's how I start my mornings. Oh, that's wonderful. I think you're doing great. And I'd love to send you some, I'd love to send you a program that you could pull from. But really it's going to be,

which it sounds like you kind of figured out, you just kind of go real slow and your body progresses and you've got to be very careful pushing too hard. It's such a hard thing to do because I'd say, I'm a recovering, hit, you know, addict and CrossFit addict. So it's been a challenge to get to that place of it's okay not to work out every day. Yeah.

To slow down. Yeah. And just so you know, you might already know this, but let's say, okay, moderate intensity, right? We'll say moderate intensity. Low reps at moderate intensity is less of a stress on the body than high reps at moderate intensity. Okay. Okay. Okay.

So if I'm keeping my intensity, like on a scale of one to ten, I'm keeping it as, seven, let's say. Five reps at a seven is less stressful on my CNS than 15 reps at a seven. Yeah. Okay. So because people, when I say low reps to people who are trying to manage stress, they're like, wait a minute, low reps, I'm going real heavy. I'm driving.

I'm pushing real hard. It's like, no, no, no. We're keeping the intensity moderate. We're just doing low reps at a moderate intensity. So what it might look like for you is a set of five reps for squat. But it's not five reps with something you could barely do six or seven. with, it's five reps with something you do 10 reps with. Okay.

That's easier on the body, that's easier on the body than doing a set of 10 reps with with something you could do 20 with, for example. Higher reps, stress the body a little bit more than lower reps, too, when the intensity is the same. I love that. I love that. Yeah, I don't, I don't think of it that way. So.

Yeah, I know. And then you probably train your clients on physio balls. I'm sure you've used them before. Yes. Physio balls will be good for you right now. Okay. So, like, instead of sitting on a bench to do a shoulder press sit down on a physical ball, it's just going to help you maintain balance and it'll help check the the amount of resistance that you're using.

Awesome. Awesome. I'm not back to training clients just yet. I will tell y'all, though, this has been such a gift because I have an elderly couple that I work with just once a week. And they have been such a blessing to be able to help them sit and stand. That's so great. And that's been a huge blessing for not, I mean, they tell me that I'm helping them. But honestly, they're helping me so much because of just trying to find that confidence, again, to get back to where I can be where I love to be.

Oh, that's so awesome. That's great. That's great. This is great, Mary. Well, so what program would you recommend? And like I said, I mean, I love all of y'all's programs. Like I said, I did finish performance and I went to start strong. Just because I'm frustrated, I want to get strong.

So those are all probably more volume than I would want you to do. Okay. I like our Maps 15 protocols. I like Mass 15 symmetry. You know, Maps 15 symmetry would probably be good. I like that protocol. That doesn't mean you can't be active. on top of it and do, you know, yoga or walking or hiking.

Yeah. But a little bit every day is probably going to give you better results than some of our more traditional programs. Okay. All right. Yeah. Do you have any of our Mass 15 programs? I don't.

I don't. I'll send you 15 symmetry. Yeah. Let me set you up for the next, let's see. These are what three months. Let me set you up for the next nine months. Let's set her two more 15s. I'll send you the original Mass 15 symmetry.

Mass 15 performance. follow them one after another. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, you got it. You're all set, Meredith. Yeah, you're good. Yeah, big shout out to Doug.

Thank you for, I know we never see him on camera, but I love hearing about him in his flute collection. Big flute guy. He's a big flute guy. If you ever come out to California, come visit us, please. Yes. Absolutely. you'll you'll mean a lot to me and I I talk to my husband about you all the time and he's always like okay what do the mind pump guys say

I don't marry you God bless you so much for calling you have a good day yeah okay y'all too bye I mean tremendous success considering what you've been doing oh man oh yeah tremendous success yeah yeah I've trained clients where their CNS was like a like a trip wire You know, I had one guy that I trained when I'd have to schedule him when no one else was there. Yeah. We'd turn off all the lights. Music, all lights. Yes, we'd turn off the music.

We'd go train in the corner. I had a guy. And eventually we got on the point where he could come in, lights were on, people are working out. But this is all his body could handle. Because even if I did a light workout, the lights, the music, and the people would get his body overamped. And it just wasn't well, it didn't work.

And so we had to gradually move them up. But the fact that she's already improved so much, such a good sign. Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

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