Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2938: The Right (and Wrong) Reasons to Fast. Most People Are Doing It for the Wrong One

Episode Date: September 4, 2026

MAPS Abs and Butt: https://mapsabsandbutt.com Code: LAUNCH for 40% off. Includes Butt Building Diet Guide, Women's Supplement Guide, at-home dumbbell version, and a free second program at checkout (Muscle Mommy or Muscle Mommy 15).   In this episode the guys break down the right and wrong reasons to use fasting — not for body composition, not for anyone with a history of restricting, but specifically for spiritual purposes, breaking food attachment, gut health issues, autoimmune conditions like psoriasis and rheumatoid arthritis, and before or during chemotherapy. They also cover a detailed breakdown of grass-fed vs. grain-fed beef over one week and how the nutrient differences add up, Legion's pre-workout Pulse and the 350mg caffeine discussion, the happiness and money meta-study showing what the happiest high earners actually do with their money, Justin addressing the Arlo dog backlash from listeners and why the military dog trainer couldn't figure him out either, and how to separate cravings from real hunger. Then they answer questions from Instagram on whether pull-ups replace lat pulldowns, if you can take a break from high protein, healing injuries in a calorie deficit, and how to activate rear delts instead of traps.   SPONSORS   Legion (Pulse pre-workout): https://buylegion.com/mindpump Code: MINDPUMP — new customers buy one get one 50% off, returning customers get 20% cash back. 350mg caffeine, beta-alanine and more.   Butcher Box: https://butcherbox.com/mindpump No code needed. Free ribeyes, NY strip steaks or filet mignons in every order for a year plus $20 off first box. Sal discusses the weekly grass-fed beef nutrient breakdown on air.   Seed Daily Synbiotic: https://seed.com/mindpump Code: 25MINDPUMP for 25% off your first month.   LINKS   Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia  0:00 - Intro 2:30 - How to use fasting for the right reasons — and who should never do it 4:51 - Reason 1: Spiritual purposes — the original and most powerful use of fasting 7:42 - Reason 2: Breaking food attachment — learning the difference between cravings and real hunger 10:54 - Reason 3: Gut health — why giving your digestive system a break has measurable effects 13:33 - Reason 4: Autoimmune conditions — psoriasis and rheumatoid arthritis have the most data 18:12 - Reason 5: Before and during chemotherapy — how fasting mimicking diet improves cancer cell response 24:14 - Grass-fed vs. grain-fed beef — the nutrient difference over one week adds up more than you think 29:00 - The guys compare their Butcher Box orders and why they all live off ground beef 34:41 - Legion Pulse pre-workout — 350mg caffeine, beta-alanine and the bathroom timing problem 41:35 - The happiness and money meta-study — what the happiest high earners do differently 52:53 - Justin addresses the Arlo dog listener backlash — the military dog trainer gave up 1:02:37 - Sal on fasting before podcasts for mental sharpness 1:08:49 - Q&A: If you only do pull-ups, are you missing anything by skipping lat pulldowns? 1:14:23 - Q&A: Can you take a break from 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight? 1:16:58 - Q&A: Can you rehab and heal from an injury in a calorie deficit? 1:18:31 - Q&A: How to activate rear delts instead of traps  

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Mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to Mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Fasting has been a dietary strategy for literally thousands of years. It's been documented.

But relatively recently, maybe over the last 15 years or so, it has taken the fitness and health space by storm. Everybody's doing it wrong. And everybody's doing it for the wrong reasons. we're going to set the stage clear. Here's why fasting works and what it works for and what you should not use fasting for. Let's get to it.

For thousands of years, you would categorize that as a dietary strategy? Yes. It still was. Yeah. So it's one of the earliest documented strategies of changing your diet was fasting. They wrote about it to cure,

but they didn't know what it was, but epilepsy. So it was a medical intervention that was written about, I don't know, 3,000 years ago maybe. Really? Yes. I didn't know for the medical purposes,

it went that far back. I know for the purposes further back for other reasons, but not for that. No, it was used. There's some documentation that they used it for seizures. I don't remember what they would call it or, you know, but how they've known that, but I didn't know thousands of years.

Yeah, and they noticed that when they would withhold food, that it would alleviate some of these things. So it's been documented. It's like one of the first and only dietary strategies. Are you fat checking out? Yeah, I do that. I didn't know that. Yeah.

So make sure I'm right. Thanks, Ted. I'm fact checking. 500 BC. So there's about 2,500 years. Ancient Greece. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. The fastest, scroll up with that.

The oldest recorded treatment for epilepsy, it is documented in the Hippocratic collections. That's where it was, where a man with seizures was reportedly cured by completely avoiding food. They didn't think it was just demons? Now, do you think, do you think this, what was happening for spiritual purposes first, and then they had some sort of correlation, probably? No, the Hippocratic collection was, these were literal medical interventions, you know, before modern, way before modern medicine.

So this is like observations on things like lifestyle and diet and how it could help certain things. So that's what I mean, though, is they had, because we did not have the medical tools in science back then to be able to probably prove what was happening. They must have said, man, for some reason, these guys that during these periods were they fast for spiritual reasons, we notice their seizures are mild or they don't have them at all, right? Wouldn't that be? Not as many like flare-ups? No, so fasting as a spiritual practice was, and we'll get to this, was, I mean, it's recorded in the Bible,

both the Old Testament and the New Testament. It's also recorded in other spiritual practices, but I believe maybe you could look this up, early a spiritual use of fasting. I would look that up, Doug, and see where that's what that is. But for spiritual purposes, it's been around for a long time. Fasting was never used. to lose weight.

So let's see. 1500 BC. Oh, there you go. Veda can do it. A long time ago. Right. So that's what I'm saying. So for a thousand years before we figured this out.

And the way we figured it out was not through some sort of medical tour that is that we had somebody who had observed people that were probably fasting for spiritual reasons who also had seizures and they were mild. I don't know what the reason was for. I would assume that's a good guess, I would say. But that's the first time it was documented as a dietary intervention. you know, for anything other than, let's say, spiritual practices, which is kind of interesting. There's definitely two ways fasting can be used incorrectly. And it just so happens to be, these are the ways that people use them today, popular reasons. Number one is for body composition change.

Fasting is not a great, effective, awesome way to get leaner or to change your body composition. It has the same effectiveness as any other diet. In other words, it's not effective. People fall off and it doesn't work. It's kind of an extreme method. And in fact, if you compare it head to head with like better ways of body composition change, let's say working with a coach and, you know, hitting a high protein diet and, you know, monitoring macros and stuff, it typically results in more muscle loss is what you see in the data.

But aside from that, it's no more effective than going on a keto diet or going on some other diet that you read about where you dramatically alter your diet to try to lose weight. It's got the same effect. So there's no magic to it. I just think people rediscovered starving themselves. And notice the scale went down and said, this is a great way. It's just calorie restriction at the end of the day. That's it.

Well, would you argue, too, that it's probably one of the worst because it is so restrictive? I think it can be one of the worst for the second reason. Here's the second reason. It is a terrible approach for any reason for people with a history of restrictive. And this is why I think people in the fitness industry often tout fasting. What you have in the fitness industry is a bit of a self-selection bias of people with body image issues, dysfunctional eating. And they find this method of restricting that now they can label as this healthy way of restricting. Instead of saying, I skip meals and starve myself, they say I fast.

If you have a history of restricting, whether it's anorexia or bulimia, do not fast for any reason. send you, this is a great way to feel all this awesome control that you get from restricting and relabeling it as something that's not dysfunctional, which can really take you down a horrible path. So anytime I had somebody who questioned me or asked questions about fasting and I knew they had

a history of eating disorder, it's like no. It's like it would be like giving an ex-heroin addict Vicodin drugs. Yeah, like oh, you injured yourself, you're some Vicodin and knowing that they were addicted to heroin before. Like, what are you doing? Terrible idea. So to me that's kind of the obvious extreme version, but I think

there's an even lesser version of that that may be more people fall into, which is like, I mean, we talked about this, we've talked about this many times, how when we would assess somebody's diet almost always, especially my female clients, were underconsuming macronutrients they needed, like protein, for example, healthy fats. He just made it way harder. And a lot of times these people were like breakfast skippers, coffee for breakfast, didn't eat their first meal until noon. And so this would be considered a form of fasting.

Now, this person didn't necessarily have some sort of an eating disorder or have this terrible relation to food. They just found it convenient that they skip breakfast and it worked for their lifestyle. And oh, by the way, it's being marketed as a great way to be healthy or fit. And here's all these positive benefits. And so I actually think that outside of the obvious thing that you're talking about, like, eating disorders and people that really shouldn't be doing this, there's a large percentage of people that shouldn't be doing this who think that they have an okay relationship with food

because it is really difficult to take the average client and close their window to an eight-hour eating window and hit their target macros. So you don't necessarily need to have this, you know, this past of, you know, binge or bulimia or anorexia to necessarily this be bad for you. I think it's bad for a lot of our clients because they already struggled with hitting the macros in the first place. Yeah. And I think that's going to be, you know, the people that have the most pushback. because, you know, they've figured out that I could eat within this window and I could keep my calories as such and, you know, and I could keep my body weight contained. But to your point, I really don't feel like they're probably hitting their macros to the degree that they need to, especially protein. It's really hard to cram in that much like good, solid, you know, whole food, animal source protein, you know, to do that with, you're going to have to eat huge meals.

Yeah, to put it differently, these are people that need to add to their diet and I take away. Right. times that's what you see with the clients. You look at their diet. You go, we got to add fiber. We got to add protein. We got to healthy fats. And now they're like, okay, can we do this in my seven hour eating windows? Oh, tough. You already miss it. Yeah. And now we're going to make it far more difficult. And what we see more often, and I think that it ends up happening to these people that justify these eight hour windows or whatever window they're giving themselves is, you know, low to no calories. And then they moderate to small lunch. They finally eat. And then they

huge dinner. And a lot of times it's driven by cravings. because they've gone so long without any calories or food, craving spike up like crazy. And then the choices that they make are rarely these. Because if they could hit the healthy food choices, then maybe they would be okay or better off than most people. But really what ends up happening is they get used to skipping that breakfast. They're not eating a ton of calories.

But when they do eat a lot of calories, they're coming from those ideal sources. Here's what I've seen in many, many people. Because fasting in the health and fitness space is not been popular for at least 10 years, if not 15. here's what I've seen with many people. People who had, you know, non-disfunctional eating patterns

with fasting turned into restrictive binge eating patterns. Normal guy. Like I got a buddy who tells me this. And he fasts every day and he goes, and I'm like, what do you for dinner then? Oh, I eat a massive dinner. So he's literally gotten himself to a point where restricts and binges

when that wasn't an issue before. So here, now there are reasons why fasting can be beneficial. None of them have to do with body composition, though. But there are, definitely reasons why fasting can be quite beneficial. The first one, we talked about this earlier, spiritual purposes. It's been in spiritual practices for a long time. It's been an almost,

I think every major religion has fasting in some way, shape, or form as a spiritual practice. I know in the Christian faith, it's used to, what they would say, to weaken the flesh. Detachment. Yeah, so you're taking away this, you know, and when you're hungry, it weakens you, and it can help you turn to spiritual comfort into methods like meditation much more readily. So for spiritual purposes, there's real value. It's been used for long time. So if you're trying to enhance or strengthen your spiritual health

and you're on this journey, fasting has actual benefits. Well, I think, too, it gives you that opportunity to get more of a bird's eye view. So you're, and we use this sometimes, like, when we're, like, assessing your own business. Sometimes you've got to get outside of your business. to really assess what's going on. And, you know, I feel like giving yourself the opportunity to see your patterns and

behaviors outside of, you know, being inside it, I think is very valuable for people. Totally. How would you explain this to somebody to a secular person who, how would you unpack the spiritual benefits for someone who, let's say, doesn't care for the spiritual benefit? In other words, the way I look at it, and you'll probably be able to articulate this better than me, but it's like fasting from food is the entry level to learning detachment, right? It's like we all need to eat every single day. So it's this easy, low level, like, restrict from and we know that you'd be fine, not eating for days and be totally okay, but take discipline and

detachment and say to do it. And really what you're learning to do is detach from things like that. And so there's other ways that you can apply that to your life. Like, so how would you explain that to some? No, 100%. So that's actually the, that's actually kind of the second point, which is to help with food attachment. So you can fast from lots of things, right? You can fast from tech. You can fast from work. You can fast from things that you feel like maybe have a little bit more control of your life than you'd wish. But with fasting, a lot of us are attached to food. We're attached to lunch or dinner or eating when we're anxious or stressed. Or like I was. Like I couldn't skip a meal because, oh my God, I'm a lose muscle. You got to always. feed myself because I got to be big all the time. So fasting for me was profoundly beneficial for food attachment. This is before I was a Christian. This is like I was atheist at this point, but I remember experiencing that food detachment from fasting. It was life changing for me because up until this point, ever since I was 15 years old, it was like I got to feed myself every three hours because I got to get bigger. And if I miss a meal, it really bothered me. I feel like

I'm getting skinnier, like what's going on? And I remember the first time I fasted for 24 hours and I didn't just lose, you know, crazy amounts of muscle off my body. It was very freeing. So that's kind of the experience. Now, for other people, it could be, oh, my gosh, you know, I get hangary at lunchtime. Really what it is is you expect to eat and you're not. And when it happens, you skip lunch and you do that and then you skip dinner. Like, wait a minute, I'm not hungry because I'm expecting not to eat.

Or when I'm bored, I like to eat. What do I got to do? Okay, now I'm bored. I'm not reaching for the food because I'm fasting today. This is actually helping me deal with. my boredom in a completely different way. So it's that food attachment that I could definitely help with. Here's now, there's some, some great medical reasons why fasting can be beneficial. The easiest one off the top of my head is for gut health issues. Definitely. This is like,

you've got, you know, bloat, you've got digestive issues, constipation, heartburn, and you're like, essentially, and I hate using this term because it's such a bastardized term, but you want to reset things. giving it a break at least give it a break let that inflammation come down and then reintroduce foods one at a time in a very slow fashion to kind of see what's going on well this is to me this is the the best argument for almost everybody doing a fast once a month or once a quarter um just i think there's outside of the people that um have like restricting issues that we talked about earlier i would argue that for health longevity all the benefits of the benefits that are touted from fasting, you can reap all those in a single 24-hour fast. And running a 24-48-hour fast once every couple months, it probably has profound and tremendous value for it. And then also get some of these other values, too, of detachment and those other practices. And so I think there's a case to be made, and obviously for gut health and resetting that. But I think there's a case to be made for everybody to possibly do it for that reason,

unless you fall in the category of people that have those diseases. I know for me, even now, my gut health is so much better than it used to be. But if I have some gut health issues, skipping a couple meals will fix it. I mean, it really tends to fix it, you know, not put, even if it's healthy food, because sometimes I'll eat something healthy and it continues the gut inflammation, just skipping a couple meals. And then the next day I'm totally back to normal. And this is documented in functional medicine practitioners.

We use fasting in this way for certain gut health issues. So definitely beneficial. And then autoimmune issues. Now, it's not all autoimmune issues, but there's certain ones. that have documented benefits like psoriasis. And I know you have this as an example. And in fact, the data on psoritis and fasting is pretty interesting. Oh, I always notice a huge difference.

I mean, that was one of the best benefits of eating really, really, really low calorie or fasting like that. I mean, one of the ways that I like to do this, because it's not something that I do on a regular basis, is that I, in my point of every month or every quarter or so, there, and I'm sure most people can relate to this, there always is this thing, a way. wedding, travel, something that comes up, where, like, getting to meals is just going to be hectic and the choices are going to be bad. And I just allow those to be, I go, this will be a great day to fast. I haven't fasted in a while. Yeah, I do the same thing. And it's like, and it's like, it's taking like Katrina a while for her to get used

to that with me where we'll be talking about stuff like that. And she's like, well, what do you want to do? We got to do this and we eat. And I'm like, when was the last time we fat? Let's just not eat that day. Like just one day. It's been a while since we've done that. totally fine to just do that.

It's a perfect time to do it because it's already going to be difficult. So instead of making some bad airport food choice or that, it's like, why don't we just, yeah, why don't we just chalk this up is we're going to be a day that we decide to restrict from eating and I just and get all these I five benefits. Yes, dude. I was just on I five. Horrible options. It's just jerky.

Jerky and nuts. Jerky. Zero fiber. It's the worst, dude. Yeah. Yeah, so MS, psoritis, and rheumatoid arthritis have the most data supporting fasting for symptoms. Lupus, not so good. In fact, there are certain autoimmune issues that can get worse with fasting.

Now, in your opinion, because I have, because of my autoimmune played with this quite a bit, and what I haven't been able to T-D, and again, this is all, and this is myself personally, so I'm curious to your opinion. The research around this is it because they're, you're, you're, you're, like looking at a 20-far window and there's this acute difference. Because I would argue that I see just as much value, if not more value, running four or five days in a row of just really low calories. Yes. And I'm glad you said that.

So when you look at the date, depending on the situation, but in many cases, restricting calories will mimic the effects. Yes. In fact, there's a, and that's the next one. Yeah. So in fact, that's the last one, which is, you know, before and during chemo, three. which is really interesting. Dr. Valtolongo, seeing the data, because here's the data shows. Like, fasting, by the way, you have to be right for this because I've been around people with cancer, and in some cases, fasting is just not possible. Sure. You're already underway. Depends on the type.

Yeah, you're underway. Tons of sarcopenia, like fasting will actually be very dangerous, so we can't do that. But in some cases, you can do it. And what they find in the data is the cancer responds much more favorably to the chemo. So you kill more of the cancer. and the healthy cells seem to respond better as well. You kill less of the healthy cells on chemo. What Dr. Volta Longo did is he discovered that having a restricted calorie diet gave you the same effects. Rather than having people completely fast for 72 hours,

he does what's called a fasting mimicking diet, which comes out to like 400 calories. Yeah, he was 400 for five days. Yep, yep. So it's a lot like what you said. Just restricting calories. Yeah, because I've noticed these same, like I said, again, mine is anecdotal.

I've noticed that, okay, I could do this, you know, 24, 48-hour fast. I see this acute reduction in inflammation. I see my psoriasis improve immediately. But I also see that same thing, too, if I just say, hey, this week, I'm going to run really low cal. And it doesn't even have to be actually that extreme,

to be honest with you. It just has to be pretty good of a death. So once I have myself in a pretty solid deficit for days in a row, then you get the benefit. I get the benefit. And the data's cool on psoriasis, bro. Like, I was looking this up, and psorice has some of the most data supporting it.

Like, really reduction in symptoms. So what you're experiencing is like what people tend to experience. Well, I mean, remember, I don't know if you guys were, when I, we tracked the whole GLP1 process for me. One of the, one of the big positives I got. Oh, yeah. Like, that was the best my surprise, but, I mean, God, I was eating hardly anything. Yeah, I know. Yeah, so I lost a ton of muscle.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, got an ozipa face. Yeah. Oh, my, psoriasis was great, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, oh, you know, we'll see. I don't know, be jack. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. So, I mean, but there, to me, I have kind of find that, that, that. I've learned that balance a little more is that, you know, if I stay, if I try and keep more of my days in a slight deficit than I do in a maintenance or surplus, it tends to keep it at bay.

Here's what I noticed from fasting personally, and there's not a lot of data support this. The data points more towards a ketogenic diet, but fasting will put you in ketosis, so it's probably connected. I can make myself sharper by fasting. So if I'm doing like a podcast circuit, which sometimes I'll do, you know, the company will fly me down to L.A. or something. and I'll do three or four shows, you know, back to back. And I want to be sharp for each one and do a good job.

Not eating tends to give me more energy and keep me sharper in the podcast than if I was eating my normal meals throughout the day. So I just noticed that. There's got to be some benefits of that, too, even because, you know, how Alzheimer's, dementia, like, as far as, like, that being, like, the diabetes three or whatever, like, you know, being able to shift into ketosis for everybody. I feel like at least at some point would be. be beneficial. Yeah, I think, you know, unless you fall into the categories of what we said earlier. I say go for it. You know, here's an interesting thing. And again, it's so difficult to parse this out because here's what we tend to do in modern societies. We'll take the side effect of something and make the main effect. So what's the side effect of not eating? You lose weight. Cool. That's the thing.

That's the reason why I'm going to fast. I'm going to focus on that. But I tell you what, if you grew up in a modern society, you grew up in America, the odds are you've probably never really been been hungry. Now, yes, there's definitely people that have experienced that, but most people in a modern society, I mean, the odds that you'll die of overeating are far higher than a starvation. So the average person has never really felt. Yeah, they've had cravings, but they haven't really been hungry. Yeah, like, when you don't eat for 48 hours, 72 hours, most people never done that. And I think it's a good experience for people. It is because you start to learn the difference between cravings and hunger. Totally. Up into that point, up into that point, I would have defined

what was cravings as hunger always. Oh, yeah, I'm hungry. I'm hungry. Oh, it's been six hours since I ate. I'm hungry. So I was like, no, I'm craving. And I'm used to eating every three to four hours. And so that's what's going on.

No, here's the difference. When you're hungry, you'll eat anything. Eat anything. Yeah. Like, give me anything. I'll eat it. When you have a craving, there's certain things you'll eat and certain things you want. Especially as you push to 48 and 72 hours.

I remember how wild day two was of the fast. Day two of the fast is like almost easier. Yeah. Like day one, it's a lot of that mental battle and struggle. like, am I really hungry? Is this craving? It's like, oh, you're kind of white knuckling a little bit to get past. And then all of a sudden it starts to pass.

And then you wake up the second day and I'm like, I feel energetic. I don't feel hungry. It's a weird, weird feeling. And then I feel like once I get the day three. That's when I start. Yeah, then I'm like counting the hours down. It's like, when do I get to eat that first meal? That's the longest I did.

And then like you said, broth sounds good. Dude, broccoli. I don't care what it is. Yeah, I'll eat it. Yeah. I feel good about it. Yeah, so true. Interesting.

All right. So I got some cool, speaking of food, I got some really good data on comparing grass-fed meat to regular meat. So here's one of the challenges when you're comparing the two, right? Because you'll hear people criticize grass-fed meat. They'll say, okay, yeah, it's got more omega-3s. It's got more of these nutrients. It's got less of this. But it's not that big of a difference.

Okay. If you're comparing one meal, then, yeah, it doesn't make that big of a difference. But if you eat a lot of meat, like I do, it actually starts to add up. what I did. I had AI give me, and I tried, I tried to be specific because the cut of meat can be very different, like a rib eye versus, you know, tri-tip versus ground, you know, ground beef's very different. So I said, okay, show me the difference between 90% grass-fed ground beef and 90% grain-fed ground beef, one pound a day over a week. What's the difference in the nutrients? So one pound a day is about what I would average. I eat at least a pound. I eat at least a

count a day of red meat. So for me, this is realistic. Okay. And it adds up, right? So this is just a week. But you could add this up over a month and over a year to kind of see the difference. And that's how dietary interventions really make a difference. It's the little changes over time. So I looked it up. So over the course of the week, it's about one and a half grams more omega-3 fatty acids, about one gram more of alpha linoleic acid. It's got about a half a gram more of EPA, DPA, DPA, which is the long chain omega-3s. It's much lower in omega-6s. So less than half of the omega-6s, which can be inflammatory.

CLA, so conjugated linoleic acid, I can't say that right, almost a gram more. Vitamin E, about two to three times higher. And then iron, zinc, and selenium, modestly higher, it said. So that's over one week. Yeah, but okay, I was just looking for my own. because I wanted to break, you just glossed over the amount of grams more you're having. Like, how was that in comparison to if I were to... Oh, you're typically taking one gram to to a day of an omega-3-fif.

This is over a course of a week. Okay. Okay. But you do that over a month. That's four grams. Do it over the course of two months. Okay. It adds up.

It starts to add up, especially when you look at the CLA. CLA is one of the big differences. And CLA is a fatty acid that has like athletic performance in fat. Remember when we used to sell CLA at 20s? at 24-15. Yeah. Did you do the breakdown? Because the calories are different, too.

I did 90% one pound. So it's the same. You're right. If you get a half a pound of a rib eye with grass fed versus a half a pound of ribby. Yeah. Look at the calorie. It's higher protein, less fat because it's leaner. Yep.

So even though they're both the same weight, it's going to be. Yeah, you do like an exact thing where I think you would see an even bigger difference if you would have just went pound for pound. No, you're right because that's more realistic. Yeah, that's more. I wanted to make it as like, like nobody, like, no, like, it's not like I, so I either eat an eight-ounce steak at the restaurant or I eat an eight-ounce grass fed from my butcher box. You know what I'm saying? It's like, so I don't, like, going like, is that 97, you know, okay? It's like, so nobody does that.

So it's like, to me, that's an even better comparison. You're right. It's more realistic. Yeah, which now you're starting to play with the difference of calories than a dish out of. Oh, you're like another 10 grams of protein. Yeah, prior protein. Less fat. Lower calories.

Same, same pound of ribon for, or what. whatever. Yeah. That's where the big... I've just tried... I mean, I've talked in the show many times about this, and I don't know if you're the same way. Like, I, we, when we eat out at a restaurant, enjoy some grain-fed beef. Yeah, I don't ask for grass food. And then when I'm home, I'm cooking my butcher box. I live off of butcher box, and that's what we do, and I find that... That's 90% of what I eat is butcher box meat. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all grass-fed in there. Yeah. And I'm eating like a pound a day. I eat a lot, you know, of the red meat. So for me, it makes a difference. And I've done it where I've gone without Butcher Box for a while.

And I can tell with like inflammation. Yeah, inflammation's a factor. Yeah, I can tell with like my joints a little bit. You feel that. You can notice too? Yeah, I could do. Yeah, I definitely.

I've messed with both too, you know, just to see the difference. And yeah, you definitely feel a more achy and inflame. Yeah. You know, it would be a fun. We should do that. We've been with Butcher Box for so long. I like to just see what the four of our boxes look like.

Oh, how different they? I bet they look pretty similar. I don't know, because our base meal is probably a lot of ground meat. Like, I'm sure you guys build everything off the half. I'm always chicken thighs in there. Same. I'm always ground beef in there. I'm always chicken nuggets in there.

Same. I'm always baby back ribs in there. We don't do ribs. I'll probably have the most chicken nuggets. God, I don't know how to make them. We just started doing the ribs. I don't know how to make them. Everett loves those.

I will, I'll show you one time and then I feel like you'll barely figure it out. I just don't make anything. It's big for us. You know what? Like, I mean, there's days or you're, especially I think it's your Thursdays, right? Where you're home all day with the kids. Is that that dear? Like, it's such a good thing for that because you just leave it.

Six hours. You just set it on a... Where in the oven? Get a trager. Yeah, you need, like, a nice tragger. So I don't have one. Yeah, you can afford one. I'm pretty sure.

They're not, like, crazy. It's not like buying a car. You know, I know how much you made. Yeah, yeah. Very worried. It's not a big deal for you to go pick one up. Okay. You can pick one up.

In fact, you can buy mine so I can upgrade mine. So if you want, I'll give you a hell a good deal on mine. Bro, my mentality is still stuck in the, like, when I make meals, it's literally, I look at the food. and this is not the right way. But luckily, my wife, she makes really good food. But when I cook, I look at it as protein, carbs, vegetables. There's a part of me that I so relate to that is why I want to sell you so hard on the other side. Because I've-

I appreciate it. When I eat with you guys and you guys cook, I'm like, man, this is amazing. Yeah. Dude, you guys do a good job. The gourmet boys. But you guys see the meals I bring? It's just like, no, no. And I can connect.

Listen, I'm the guy who was eating. I was eating cold chicken and rice for like, Three years, like, you know, six? Oh, yeah. Did you ever do the tilapia? Oh, no, that was always, I used to mock all the, oh, yeah. You did that? I did because it's actually really easy to shovel down your face.

And if you squirt lemon on it and you have a little calorie. It's, yeah, no, I was, so I was big on lean ground turkey instead. So that was my way of cutting calories. So I would go when I was, when I was dieting for a show, it would like, during, you know, prep where I was like still at maintenance calories above. I'm eating ground beef, rib eye, all those things. And then one of the way,

this is why sometimes it's so funny to me how bodybuilders really overcomplicate this with like changing it all weird. I was just like, I would go from like allowing myself to have rib eyes to like having like a... You just change a cut. Yeah, just change a cut.

Like in consistency of the meals stay the same and it's like a perfect way to... Yeah. And so it's only a couple... And then when I get to the very end, it was like, you know, I was eating some chicken breasts and ground turkey for a couple weeks.

Yeah. It wasn't like the whole prep. had to eat that way. I'm like, I'm enjoying healthy cuts. You're different, dude. I saw, yeah, they were just torture themselves all over there. You know why? Because in that world, so much is like passed down,

you know. It's also an identity. Dude, it's like suffer. It is. There's like a badge of honor to suffer. And then, and there's this like, it's like, it worked for so and so. And he's, he was the Mr. Olympian. Rodney Coleman did it. And so it's like, yeah, but when you actually just kind of break down

the calories and the macros of what he's doing, you know, you could do different stuff and fit like something maybe you like in there like yeah no i always thought it was dude but i but i did have to travel a lot with my six seven meals everywhere i went and so many times it was just cold i couldn't get to a microwave and so like we were talking about being on i five and i'd pull over and just shovel some cold cold meat and sweet sweet potato i think sweet potatoes are probably the best cold that is that's the only one i could be yeah yeah yeah that's one the better ones. But I did, I got to almost be okay. Bro, bodybuilders

of the 90s were the craziest. You can watch videos on straight canned tuna with nothing. Oh, no. It was boiled chicken, boiled chicken breast, rice and broccoli. And then it was like tilapia and like a little bit of broccoli. Didn't you used to blend like tuna and your protein shakes? But that was because

when I was younger, I was extremely dysfunctional. So I just, my goal, I was trying to get more calories in and logically you could drink more than you can eat and so I'm like blend it. Yeah. Who, okay, what bodybuilder or what person?

Because I know I thought about that, but I didn't do that. I did a lot of other, you know, bad things or what like that to try. You did the wake up in the middle of night Oh yeah, I woke in the middle of night. I shoveled down double peanut butter jelly sandwiches. I did, yeah. I mean, I remember, I remember times of like. I like just than judging us right now. I love it.

Yeah, yeah. It's fun. Yeah. You ran full speed. You ran full speed up people and blasted it. I just think fat, dude. You did crazy stuff too, bro. Of course I did. You judged me. Like, yeah.

Dude, I ran into a buddy. I ran into a buddy of our Shay at the gym yesterday. I haven't seen him in so many years. So 25 years ago, this guy worked for me, right? And so we just start talking. And you see someone from that back then. The stories start coming out. You start remembering things.

We started talking about the, I, Speedstacks. Oh, yeah. The Fetra drinks that we should have. Yeah. And I thought it was two a day that I would have. And he's like, no, dude, remember we would have one here, one here? I'm like, oh, my God, do we exceeded what would kill people all the time?

And I'm like, I wonder. And then he was telling me had some health problems. I'm like, I hope that's not why. Oh, God. Well, I had to have had an impact. I know. I know. I know I do that to Justin, right?

So I still feel, I still. I still carry the guilt. Honestly believe that. Yeah. I don't honestly believe that. I definitely had a tumor. And I think it's connected, you. I mean, just think, too, of, like, working in that, like, it was like a mandatory thing

that I had my staff do. I hired you to be like, that's the worst part. Yeah. You would have the same. You haven't had this. You need to have this. You never one in the company twice. I don't really have any complaints.

It worked. Yeah. I mean, it was tumor. We were literally drug pusher. Hey, speak. I, so I haven't had a pre-workout in, I would say probably a year, maybe more. We were just energy drinks or coffee? Yeah, right now I just do that.

Right. So I've just been doing, I've been, normally it's coffee in the morning, then my energy drinks when I'm here. And so I haven't had a, I haven't had a pre-workout in a really long time. And it was, I think it was just recently. It was like on a Saturday or something like that. And I only had a cup of coffee. And I'm like, oh, I've got a lot, a lot more caffeine I can intake before my workout.

I'm like, I got time. I'm like, so I'm digging through my stuff. I'm because I haven't, I don't even know. I know I have some. I'm like, Katrina, where's it? Where's the pre-work? She's like, oh, it's above the shelf of here. Like, pull it out.

And you know what happens to pre-workout when you haven't had pre-workout for like... Yeah, it turns into a brick. Oh, yeah. And I'm so I got a butter knife in there and I'm like chopping and I'm like, forget it. I'm just to do it, right? So I took it and it was amazing

because I had had anything like that. And so I tell Katrina because I don't want to eat clumpy pre-workout. I'm like, hey, could you have Jackie? Make sure she puts the Legion pre-workout in for me before I leave tomorrow. It was like the next day or whatever. And so I get it.

And then I'm like, This is always so funny for me when I don't even know about our own partners and some of the stuff they're doing. But I don't know if you guys have had Legion's pre-workout recently or not. I hadn't because I hadn't been doing pre-workout. So they actually,

which I think is brilliant, and I don't know why everybody doesn't do this, and I don't know why we didn't know this as a talking point because I think it's fire. Each serving is in individual packets. Oh, so it's not a... So it's in a big bag. And then there's single individual packets.

Oh, that's perfect. Bro. Take it to the gym? Yes. That's perfect. Yes. And I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

It stays fresh longer? Because anybody who's had pre-workout for a long time, and I know you can really, because you definitely are a pre-workout guy, like, yeah, it gets clumpy after a lot. And that's the most annoying thing. But it's also, the other part that's annoying is you, and it's okay.

This is not a big deal, but it's a... There it is right there. Yeah, look at that. This is also annoying, and it's whatever you deal with it, but you have your jug of pre-workout, and then that's what you carry with you to the gym. I'd much rather have a little stick.

Literally. Wow, that's great. Yeah, I had no idea. Mike did that. And I, no one gave me the heads up. And I was, like, super excited. Go to the ingredients. So Pulse is one of the higher caffeine, pre-workouts, right?

300 milligrams. Is that what it's out there? 350, I think it's 350. I think it's 350. No, no, I think it's 350. Is it 350? Did you move it up to 350? What's that top left?

Isn't that caffeine? No. Yes. 350 milligrams of caffeine plus thianine. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's one of the higher, so it's a strong pre-work. Oh, yeah, yeah.

That's why, so the reason why I knew. that too is because... Because most pre-workouts are 200. So I'll go... So I have about 600 milligrams a day of caffeine, and I had my cup of coffee, so I knew I had like 400 to spare. And so I'm like, oh, this will be a time to have a pre-werecow. So do you notice a difference between just a regular energy drink that's got caffeine and then the pre-workout? Yeah. It does make a little bit of... I mean, for sure, what I can't tell you and I don't know. Well, definitely, because you're comparing something that's got 200 to 350, so it's got 100. It's almost double the caffeine. Then you add in the fact that

that's also got, what are all the things? Yeah, the shit that makes your face tingle and shit, which I'm not the biggest fan of that. I mean, I like it once I'm into the workout, but what I don't like, and so, and you probably have got this down to science because you're so consistent with all this stuff. But I want it to hit when I'm in to my lift already.

I don't want it to hit when I'm driving over there. And I'm like, my face is itching. And I'm just like, shit, I took it too early. Yeah, so it's like, there definitely is like a timing to it. They're like, okay, ideally I think it's like finish it just as I'm pulling into the drive up. That way, by the time I get my little walk and stretch in, and I'm lifting, then it hits.

The other thing, too, is caffeine oftentimes helps people poop. So you hear people talk about this in the morning that they'll have their coffee. Yeah. That's the timing also. So you got to do your pre-workout. And you got to make sure you get to the bathroom. Make sure I hit that. That's just that every day when he gets to work.

Special squat day. That's what I'm saying. Hey, do you have pre-workout dog? No, no. You know what it is? He drinks coffee or whatever on the way here. Yes. And then as soon as it's like, I just like,

I get there quick. So, you know, that's part of why I... I'm a routine with that. We're usually next to each other. I see his shoes. That's actually why a lot of times Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I won't have coffee is because of that.

Because coffee does, like, I have to be near bathroom time. It takes you too long to get here. Yes. And I don't want to be like that. I don't want to be like... I like my morning drive to be relaxing. This is my audio book. You know what I'm saying?

Maybe I'm making some calls. He's got it down to science, though. Like Justin never misses. He comes... So you must drink it at the... Yeah, but he looks stressed. I'm drinking it like on my way here. He looks stressed when he comes in.

He looks like, do I look stressed? Yeah, my morning time here is stressed, but like that gets me up. Like, I need, I need to like. He sounds like Doug, bro, chasing that cortisol high. The one time I'm like Doug, yeah. I'm just like trying to wind it up. And so I'm like, hey, I'm going to perform. But then when I'm going home, super chill, dude, I'll do the audio.

I mean, how different are all of our, probably our morning routine? I need to wind it up real tight. I mean, you're the 5 a.m. God. No, I go to the gym. Yeah, you're up, but you're up at like 5 in the morning, right? Now these days it's six So I can get up a little later Because my kids wake up a little later now

Thank God This is like life changing My son used to wake up 530 That's great bro Now he's like 630 to 7 So I'm okay So 6 a.m. I'll wake up And then I'll get my wife coffee

Do my thing And lately I've been going to Starbucks Which is down the street And her green tea and bringing it back We're door dashing less dude Oh good for you Oh you could definitely afford a trigger Yeah I know

Trigger time dude One month of pulling back on DoorDash is a trigger for you That's a new car. I mean, I, I, I, it's been a long time. I've really, we cut way back on that. I pulled it back. Isn't that like every financial podcast is like, if you just stop drinking that one cup of coffee every day.

I mean, you know, it's funny for me is, uh, it, it was driven more by principle than anything else. I was so angry. Because it's double that they were getting me on all these fees I was unaware of. That it's like, out of principle. I'm like, I am not going to do this. DoorDash expensive, man. Because they gouge on everything.

On top of it. You know my theory is right. I have a theory that if you want, you can look at people's income, but without looking at income, look at DoorDash usage and you will 100% be able to predict someone's income level, just by their DoorDash. Oh, I bet. It's such an expensive convenience. I bet you're spot on with that.

That would be a really cool thing to. And I'm sure they, I mean, who knows where they're at as far as how sophisticated their marketing to you is and everything like that. All I know is when I call DoorDash to answer the phone. Which is weird. I've talked to friends. They're like, what they respond? Hey, speaking of money.

Oh, that article. Did you see that article? Jackie sent over. I did. Harvard? Who did it? No, there were two. Penn State.

Yes. There were two large groups of, oh, what does it say there? DoorDash is used by people of all. Lower income households actually use it more. Than the wealthy? Really? Yes. Get out.

You know, whether wealthy have the chefs? How wealthy are we talking here? Like, what's? They pay a servant to go get instead? Yeah. My theory's off. Yeah. Wow.

All right. All right. Whatever. Anyway, the article you're talking about Adam, they're taking different cohorts and studies and trying to combine them together. Well, first start by why. This is so cool because we've talked on the show multiple times about this. There's a famous study done in 2010 that I think that one was originally done by Harvard or one of the other big, one of their big schools.

Right. And they had done a study and what the basically did study had said that happiness, once you hit to about $75,000 in income. This was in 2010. This was in 2010. Yeah, right. So even a jump, right? So at 75,000, that there is no correlation with happier as income goes up. Right. So the peak was 75 after that really no. It plateaued hard after that, right? And they did, they did like a cross study on this and found and teased out a lot of things. So there was other studies that showed that it was closer to 150, 200. Then there's other studies that show that happiness goes up incrementally as money tends to go up. But then there was other ones that showed it was straight linear with it all the way.

That's what I mean. It kept going up. Yeah, yeah. But when you look into the data, so here's what's confusing about all of this. First off, when you look into the data, people who get no more happiness from making more money will definitely get no more happiness from making more money. In other words, you're making a lot of money and you're miserable. Making more money is not going to make you happier. The data shows that pretty clearly.

Money's not going to solve your happiness issue. If you're already doing well and you're already miserable. Yeah. Okay. That's not your issue. People with well-being that made more. money did correlate with that. Yes. And then it was even higher for people that had that were in the exceptionally

positive and happy. Yes. And now here's why we got to look at the data more closely, because you could break the data down. And here's why money is confusing. First off, what is money? Right. Money is, it could be more time. It could be more education. It could be more things. It could be more freedom. It could be more charity. So just look at it. Just look at at money doesn't tell you a lot. What you want to do is go into the data and see what are the happiest people doing with their money. How is it making them happier?

That's what you need to look at because it could mean so many different things. I mean right away what jumped out at me when I read it is it, and I said this to you off air, it reminds me of the steroids. Oh. Hang with me. It's going to enhance who you are. Exactly. So like everybody, there's this myth that like steroids make.

you angry. And it's like, or make you a dick. It's like, no, if you were a dick and you take steroids, you're a bigger dick. You know, that's... I wish you used the different word. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Right. So, whatever, right? If you were an asshole before. Even when the visuals aren't working for me. Yeah. Everyone. Both of them. I hope our editors that have put it in the graphics. Whatever. You get my drift. And so, and, and, and all the research studies prove that. We know that now, right? It's a, but still, there's a lot of people that think that. People think if you're, if you're unaware of testosterone, there's still this myth around that that it does.

Like, Royd rage. Yeah, roid rage. Now, to be clear, there are some steroids that seem to have that problem. But not the typical ones. Yeah, generally speaking, testosterone, a testosterone done, especially at therapeutic doses. Yeah, like that. Which one was it? Trimblum.

But it just makes you more of who you already are. I've always thought the same way about money. Money just makes you more of what you are. So if you are a good person, have good well-being, which doesn't matter if you're making 35 grand or 3 million, that gets enhanced. You can be more charitable. Exactly.

Maybe you're the person who only can give out 20 bucks every now and then when we're only making $75,000 a year. But now you make $3 million, that turns to huge charity, a huge return. And so I love this study because I've always felt this way like, you know, yes, I think there's there comes this plateau of material things that I no longer, like, see the same. Yeah. But I definitely have gotten happier.

Well, here's, but I've also learned how to use it in a certain way. Here's the other thing, too, is that this is hard to parse out, but you can, you can look at the data and kind of break this down too. People in higher income brackets. So we're not talking about inheritance and we're not talking about lottery winners. Okay. So it's not all the same. But people who earn more tend to, tend to be more disciplined. They tend to, what's the word?

They withhold when you're, when someone's offering you something and you can say, no, let me wait. What's that called, Doug? When you're, you're, you're not gratifying. Delayed gratification. So they tend to be better at delayed gratification. They tend to spend more time and energy on self-improvement and to the tune of, let's say, on the job training or education. And they tend to be healthier physically because they spend more time on things like healthy eating and exercise because it helps sometimes to have money to be able to do those

things. Other times it helps you to make more money. to become more healthy and fit. So it's hard to kind of like parse that all out. Because you can look at that. You really can. Look, here's a deal. And I know you've told me this, Adam, because you grew up with not so much.

The spending habits that you had growing up, not you, but your family had, were like, well, part of the reason why they were so difficult is their spending habits. Yes. Is they didn't have great. My family came with no education. My dad came to this country with literally no education.

They had no money. And they did okay. They did reasonably well. because they were really disciplined with what they did with what they earned and how they saved or they spent and how they worked. And I think those things contribute to happiness

more than the money did. It's those strategies and those disciplines and those behaviors. So it's hard to kind of break that down. But there is data on the ways to spend money and how those affect happiness and it's very clear in the data when you voluntarily give your money

to help someone else, especially if you could see the result of what you've done, it's the longer lasting effect. It's the greatest R.O.I. by far with happiness. Well, you can, and anybody who doesn't believe that theory, you can test this.

Oh, dude. And I've talked about this before. Like, there's been many material things that I desired or wanted that eventually I got. And it was awesome buying it in the time and when I use whatever the thing was. But over time, that dissipates. And even when I think back,

oh, man, I remember. that first watch when I really want to get like it doesn't give me this like like I remember that I remember there was a major goal and I could tell a story about it but I don't get a feeling from it anymore it's so long gone and I've exceeded so many other things since then but let me tell you a story of something I did for somebody like totally charity wise for a family or did something like that and it could be small things could be big things I could think about that and I can you can feel it you can feel it yeah I can literally feel it in my body like you could be big things um I could be big things um I can you can think about that and I can you can feel it in my body like I can I can I can literally feel it in my body like I. Like you can, so test this if you don't believe me. Like, go do something like that. Compare it to something that you really wanted to buy or have for yourself. And then, and it doesn't even have to be, which is wild. It's like, I mean, what I'm comparing right now, the stories that I'm thinking of is that really expensive watch thing for, for at least was really expensive for me at the time. Very modest charity thing.

It didn't cost nearly as much as that thing. But yet the ROI on the. the happiness ongoing for years from that, exponentially more than that thing. So like even the amount doesn't even have to be equal. Does that make sense what I'm saying? No, 100%. I was, at fact, I was in the car over the weekend because you guys know I went to

that place with Dylan and Josh. And we were actually talking about this. We were talking about happiness and money. And I don't know if you guys remember this, but Josh, it was either last year or the year before, he went and built a home for a family that needed a home to be built. He went with a Christian organization down to Mexico. and he's like, he goes, every time I think about it, it gives me the same, he goes, I want to cry.

He gives me the same emotion. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life. And it was the best time I ever spent and money ever spent was flying myself down there and doing that. And so that's the takeaway. Like, the takeaway with this is like, the things you do with money are what make you happy. And the behaviors that tend to result in a better lifestyle tend to make you happy. The money itself, boy, it can go in a lot of different. But I feel, don't you feel like that?

study did a good job of really breaking that down because it's the people there was three levels of people that didn't have good well-being or that were negative unhappy or what about that, people that had good well-being and then people that were exponentially good well-y. I mean, I would categorize if you have exponentially good well-being, then you probably have a balance of giving a balance of all those things. And so give that person more money and their happiness goes up literally with more because they've they've learned to reinvest in time. and get that back with the money. They've learned to do some,

they've learned to travel and do things that will create memories for them. They've learned to give to other people, which they know will give up great. And so, I mean, you know what it reminds me also of? The steroids was a rougher analogy.

Maybe a more gentle one would be, we talk about this all the time with obese clients who think that getting in shape will make them happy. How often do we have to talk to people like this, right? Where they're just like, I just want to lose the weight.

Once I do that'll sell money. Once I lose it 50 pounds, the depression will go away and it's no it won't. If you are a depressed negative person and you think it's because you're overweight, it is not true. And here's your example of that. If I had a magic pill that just had them lose weight versus the things that they did to lose the right way or what make them happy. That's right. The exercise, the changes in the strategies, changing with food relationship, that results in tremendous happiness.

So you can't avoid the struggle. You can't. You can't avoid the struggle. You don't want to. You don't want to. You learn everything through that. It's the secret to the happiness. Because to your point, if you just did some extreme diet and you white knuckle your weight of 50 pounds down or 100 pounds down in pursuit of I'm going to be happy, it's like winning the lottery.

It won't solve that. It won't make you any happier. If you're a miserable person before and you win the lottery, you're not less miserable. The data on lottery winners is remarkable. Yeah, yeah. It's 100%. And that's why? Because they didn't learn the disciplines on how to get that much money.

Yeah. One of the things that happens on your way of 75,000 to, say, hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars is all the disciplines required in order to obtain that. Getting, growing in education, sacrificing, delayed gratification, right? All these things. And it's like, oh, shit, that is the real secret sauce are all those things. And then, oh, by the way, now I got all this windfall of money from it, which gives you better ways to do it.

Same thing goes for fitness. If you were somebody who learned how to. lift weights properly, eat correctly, do all the things. And it took you a while to get that 100 pounds off. Oh, you end up valuing the journey. 100%. All right, I'm going to change subject because this note's been up there. And I want to hear about...

It's probably a Justin thing. About Arlo. I know that you guys... You talked about him on a recent episode. You said you got a lot of crazy DMs. I did want to kind of bring it up. Did Peter call you? No, not PETA.

But, yeah, no, somebody just kind of was giving me a little. feedback that I was like I had to like sit and really think about it because it's like I like to bring things up on the show that are I think are going to be entertaining and funny uh in a lot of times that involves like stupid things that especially with my dog like he just like does crazy things every now and then and it's like I have to talk about it too it's a bit of like uh cathartist you know kind of uh a thing for me because I'm like I got to like offload this because it's like This was the story where you were peeing off the deck or something. He ran into it and walked into the pee.

Yeah, he walked into the pee, shit on my foot. Like, he's thrown up on, you know, carpets. He's gone, got, like, sprayed by a skunk and his face, like, multiple times. It's just like a constant. Adventures all times. Yeah, it's like having a two-year-old, you know, that's always going to be a two-year-old, you know. But it's like, I might have mentioned, because it's hard. And it's like, you know, I struggle sometimes.

I was like, maybe somebody else would really appreciate him, you know? But it's like, it's not true. He's, he's part of the family. I love him. It's like, I have to like put that out. He really thought he's like, oh, you're just like, one of those dog owners is going to get rid of them. Oh, you know what it was? It was because Adam said he would have dropped him off in the woods.

That's what it was. I was trying to think back. I was like, I don't think I said I was like going to get rid of him. No, you laughed. Like, I think I'll do that. I laugh. Obviously, Justin was joking. Everybody's so sensitive.

Yeah, so this is not going to drop. I know, come on, dude. Stop it. Even if, like, you're talking about your kids or something and you're like, you know, you're trying to bring up funny stories and it's always like a negative story, you know, it's like, because there's, I mean,

there's a lot of times I have, I have good times. I take him out, like to Westcliff, we walk all the time, like, and for feedback for people that don't realize, like,

the amount of work I've put into this dog is insane. So this guy Lance, he, he's like, he trains military and police dogs. And this is like over, you know, in Watsonville. We took him there for like an entire year. And he literally like was like, I don't know what to do with this dog.

Oh, no. Bro, when you get a dog trainer or something? Did you have your buddy back? A military. Could you imagine us to give him like a client back? Like, hey, I can't help this person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm a higher ad over.

He's like, this talks a lot. He's neurotic. You know, and he came back and he was like, you know, underweight. And you see his ribs and everything. I'm like, this is not good for him, dude. like we'll just take them i don't want to keep doing the training it's not working you know and so like and we and it was you know it's his own style like it so i just got frustrated and i'm just like i'm just going to deal with it you know and we're going to kind of just take it day by day and like he's

really food motivated and so i've learned to kind of like get him to do better things like with more positive feedback and like get like food out there to to to draw him in and like he'll go take off like uh down to the school and like and so you know it's just frustrating it's hard dude i even had like a lady like pick him up when he was down at the junior high and he had taken off and like he's only done this a handful of times but she's just like how would you ever let your dog you know run loose and like was going to call like animal control and i'm like dude like the the ultimate karen lady was just like she was hammering me about like like me and my dog and like how dare you like a car could hit him and blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so I've been through the ringer with this dog,

dude, and it's, it's hard, you know, but like I'm, I'm still at it and I'm, we're still working out. So anyway, I'm, I'm working now on, like, getting him out a lot, because you have to take ownership, too, like, if I had taken him out enough, like, he's a very high energy dog, got to walk him all the time, got to run him all the time, got to throw the ball for him all time, and, uh, and I'm switching up his food. I'm trying to really kind of figure out, like, you know, what maybe maybe i got to get like a healthier you know version of him like how can we do this do you do you so what i think it is is it's wrong dog wrong owner hmm i don't think he's the right dog for you yeah just straight up dude you still trying to talk him on no listen we're already

there right you got to keep him now you know i'm saying he's your kid but but no this is more me me challenging your way this is just me challenging your way of thinking on do you believe that there are right dogs for right owners. And I do. Yeah. So before I bought my dogs, I did a bunch. To be fair, Courtney got him. Okay.

So I did a bunch of research on breeds before I bought my English bulldogs. And one of the things that, because I remember wrestling with, I want a dog, should I get a dog right now that I wrestled with was I. It looks at the laziest dog. That's 100% what I do. I know. I said, what dogs need the least amount of exercise? Because I knew how many hours I worked. But I still wanted a dog.

And I wanted that. And bulldogs came up. So I did dig deeper. And, oh, there are a lot of, you know, maintenance. I'm like, okay, I can handle that stuff. But I, like, I know I won't be able to exercise them. My buddy who has a wineriner that has, that has, and I, so I know three close people to me that in only one of them, I feel like has this great relationship with this

wiremer run. And he's an ultra marathon runner. And that dog runs with him every day. Are they designed? They are bred to be. They are bred to run. Yeah. All the time.

You're bird dogs. And so, yeah, two. if you get them to hunt and really like work them, they're super chill. Do you think a dog treadmill would be good? Or is that too boring? I thought about that. Would they do it?

Would he do it? I actually, I don't know if he'd do it. He might, but you know what I have done is I've, I bike, and so I'll take him Westcliff, and I can, like, jam on the bike,

and he just sprints and, and he's worn out. And I've been doing that a lot lately. And I feel like, see, and you're not a big cardio guy. So I feel like if you were a big cardio guy, then it would be right to, I think it'll be right dog right on.

Like, I think my buddy Greg, who's an ultramarathon runner, that is a great dog for him. Oh, totally. Because he could go take it on. I don't know. I don't disagree at all. But like, you know, I'm in the situation. Yeah, no.

Yeah. It is what it is now. You took him to the best trainer, like one of the best trainers around. But you were, you're talking right now about how maybe it could be like, would you really buy another Weimeriner after everything you've learned? No, no, no. Okay. No.

Yeah. But to be fair, too, I had a wymerer here before this. You did, but I thought you got lucky. Totally. Yes. Totally, like, got, like, a dog that was like... Chill for one one. And here's the thing.

Like, ahead of time, too, it was, like, more of a pet. Like, so they breed these dogs a lot to be show dogs, right? And they're, you know, and Arlo specifically was, um, his, his dad was actually, like, a winner, like, uh, in his breed. And he won all kinds of shows, really handsome, like, perfect, like, bone structure, all this kind of stuff. And so he's, like, a really handsome. dog, but also really dumb. You know, it's a lot of Embreedding. I mean, it's just

like, it's like a male model. That whole world. I swear, he's the male model version. Zoolander. You should name him Zoolander. I swear to God, dude. Get him an orange Frappuccino, you know, and he would love it. But yeah, I don't know. It's, it again, like, I got, I

got lucky with my first dog. He was like the best dog, dude. Like, would literally like, had the recall. Like, I could, I trained him and it was like I'd come home and he was he'd like put his paws up on me and give me a hug and then he'd go lay down and he would chill. And I would take him out on a walk and that was it. And I literally was like so easy. So yeah, it was totally like threw me off, you know.

And so we got like a little weiner dog too now, which he's great. He's so easy. I'm like, I'm just going to be all weaners from here. Listen, that's to me, I know you, your lifestyle, so of that. that's the right dog. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's what happens. I mean, I think the Doug's Maltese was like perfect.

You don't look pretty tough, you know, walking down on Westcliffe with two little weeners, but, you know. Yeah. I can handle it. I got a good ego. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Have you ever, have you ever considered a dog? Have you ever considered a dog? No. No. We can manage a lot already. You run four kids. Why not add a dog?

I'm not trying to add more stress. You know what I mean? Four kids is already like a lot. thought of a dog, here's what happens when I think about a dog in a positive way. Yeah. Watching TV. Just petting a dog, watching TV.

You know what I mean? They make dogs like that. Actually, yeah. They make dogs like that. I love that. That's what I'll get the best. Yeah. I mean, if you can handle the farts,

some English bulldogs are like that. Yeah. Yeah. So are, um, they just, uh, the kings, uh, the kings. No.

Cavalier Kings. Whatever? Like, they're like lap dogs. They're like, sit in your lap. I think some dogs, I love the, I love dogs. I love people have dogs. I appreciate them.

but just the extra stress, and I can't leave when I want, and I got to have someone watch the dog, and then we got to walk. And then the dog will wake us up in the night. I get it. I get it. I believe, though, there's a dog.

I believe there's a dog for every person. I think that. I think that, like, there's the right breed for, like, every, like, what you're into, what you like to do. Same. There's certain breeds that are good for that are good for. I have an affinity only because I grew up with them and because my dad loved them. I love American Stafford Shires and Pit Bulls,

But my dad always had them when I was a kid. People are great. I just love the way they look, and they're so athletic and so strong. Yeah. And so I remember growing up, my dad had one. And, man, he could jump and just, you know, we played tug-of-war with the rope. And he was very protective of us. But that was just my experience with them.

And I like the way they look, because they look like little bodybuilders. Yeah, they're cool. They're all stocky. Yeah, but other than that, like, yeah. Did you get a bunch of guilty DMs? I just took a few. Yeah. I think that was.

Justin loves his dog, everybody. I love my dog. I'm gonna say. Yeah. It's like I post about all the time. You see my social media. It's like half of it is like me posting me and my dogs. Like, all I do is like, I hang out my dogs and my kids.

He's not going to get rid of his dog. He's still a great dad. He's still there. He's still great dad. Speaking of animals, I got to hear about how the cows kicked you. You were saying this off air? I didn't know you got kicked by a cow for real. I thought I've told you that before.

You really got killed by cow? Like where? All the time. What? Shoulder chest? All the time. Like a full on kick? Yeah.

Well, so what they? Remember when I used to milk them, they're at this level, right? So what's that level? Like, they're feet. Uh-oh, because they're standing up. They walk around. Oh, they're on something. Yeah, yeah.

So that way I can, you know, do all the stuff, right? Yeah, do my thing. But, and when I come in the morning, so it was actually like, it was designed like this. If you can imagine where Doug is at over would be the size of this. And I'd have four cows in a stall at a time. Okay. And they're all about this level. Okay.

You let them all four in, and you lock them all in, then you prep all of them. Now, when I would come in in the morning, directly ahead of me right over here would be this big whiteboard. And every morning, there's at least on a good morning, like a low number, a good morning would be low number, two or three cow numbers. A bad morning could be like eight to nine. And what that is is it's warning me like who's off. And a lot of times there would be a special note if there was something I needed to know. like, for example, 397 back right teeth. They don't touch the back right teeth.

Well, what I would know is that it's got an injury or something like it, like another cow stepped on it so it sliced it open. Oh, so don't do that one. And so, well, no, you still do it, but you better be gentle because if you just go in, not knowing, and you will get the shit kicked out of you because you grab on an injury on a cow. And so that's always happening. So you're, or one is sick or just off. And so I would just, you see numbers.

And so when I see the tag come in, a lot of times, you know, but sometimes you're the guy who finds out. Yeah, yeah. So I come in, I know what I'm looking at. Sometimes you're the dude who found out. And a lot of times the number ain't up there and you grab something and then whack. You can just kick you up? Oh, yeah, yeah.

No, I've flown across the room. Whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing broken? No, I've actually never had anything broken. I mean, I feel like that would hurt, like really bad. Yeah, no, it does. Yeah, yeah.

But it's not like, I never broke anything. I am in a, I'm in these full, so I have like clothes like this and then I'm in full coveralls, like that are like the thick denim gene type coveralls. So I got a little bit, so I'm not going to get, yeah, so I'm not going to get, yeah, so I'm like, yeah, so I'm in a little bit padding. Enough to like not be. It hits you in the face. So it normally is not my face because I'm high enough. So it would be chest.

Yeah, it's normally would be here. And my head, my head's, there's a, there's a, there's a gait here, but there's a, there's this much gap room. Did you always start slow just to be sure? Like, let's make sure. No, because you're a. You're, it's, speed is the game, right? I've got to get through all of them. So you move, you move pretty quick.

But you, but you, over time, you, you won, you learn, you learn all the cows. So you give them names and some of that. So you learn, you learn, you learn who's who. And there's certain temperamental, temperamental cow. So there's cows that are prone to be in pains in the ass. Do you have a favorite? Do you remember any? Oh, I don't remember.

It's been, so you're talking about, you're making me go back. What is that? I'm 15 years old, so 30 years, you're going to me go back? Yeah, no, I can't. I mean, I remember. Rosa and like some some name. Yeah, I knew some names, but I couldn't tell you if there was like a sweet cow. Yeah.

Yeah. That one just popped in my head. So there was like, but I don't, I don't remember. Because like I said, a lot of, most of the time they were going through something. And so therefore they were temperamental. But there absolutely were some cows that were all, like I could see, they come in. Their ears would be pinned back. And so you know, and you can see, they're looking at you with. Sideways.

Yeah. And then other cows, they just put their head in the grain and they're happy. and you're like, they're cool, so you don't have to worry about it. So you learn the energy of the animals. Squirt your buddy that went by her. As they come in. Yeah, if you guys were to come in, it was like anytime friends came by and I'd be working, you'd walk around the corner, I could shoot you across the room.

Yeah, yeah, with the milk. And then with my, I love that, like, somebody trying to, if you don't know the technique, you just can't do it. And so you're like, I don't get it. Why is it not? It's not working. It's like, yeah, you're going to roll it. There's the way you got to do it.

You know so much about this. I would love to see you do this because that's the skill. We've got to put you in your element. Well, you know what's funny about it, I think is interesting. It's, I mean, you guys obviously really know me. Like, it couldn't be more out of character, right? Totally. Right, right.

That's why I want to see it. It's funny. I know. If I see you milking a cow right now, I will die. Yeah, yeah. I couldn't be further from the guy. I mean, we joke about how, like, not changing a light bulb or being this, but I did all that stuff for a long time, you name it.

Working on a ranch, there's not a lot of things. that you didn't have to do or learn to do. You got, yeah, very dirty and crazy early mornings and all by myself and like all that stuff. And so, yeah, that's part of why I am now I am today too. Because I've got plenty of experience to know, I don't want to do that shit. Yeah, definitely. So Seed is the world's best probiotic.

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body weight, and weighted, am I missing out on anything by not using a, lap pull down machine. No. You know what? This is a good question. Oh, you disagree? Well, no, so here's a deal. Okay. I mean, it's the same movement pattern, same muscles. Like, you know this as a bodybuilder. They do feel different. They do, but if someone was asking me this question, you know, they miss the reverse, I would say yes. Yeah. To not be able to pull your own body. You have to pick one or the other. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. And unless this person is a competitor, the value you're going to get of

just so you know for the listener, I mean, I was doing a weighted pull-ups other day, but the three months prior to that, I didn't do any pull-ups and I was doing all that pull-down. So it's not like I don't bounce back

and you're, it's a cute, but you could absolutely never do a lap pull-down, but always do pull-ups and wait-ed pull-ups and get awesome, awesome back, great strength, functional, you're not missing out.

There's two two advantages that the pull-down machine has. One is you're not strong enough to do a pull-up. So a pull-down allows you to use resistance that kind of matches your strength. And by the way, this can be true for someone who can do pull-ups, but let's say they can't do a wide grip pull-up.

So I can do pull-ups, no problem. But when I go really, really wide... Yeah, working on your grip. I got to be careful if I do a pull-up because it can sometimes tweak my shoulder because I'm pulling my 220-pound body up. So when I go on a pull-down machine, sometimes I like to do really... wide pull downs, but the weight is 160 pounds. And it's not as heavy so I can get that, you know, kind of that different angle.

Or let's like a behind the neck. Behind the neck pull up is really hard when your body weight is high. Behind the neck, you know, pull down with 120 pounds, not a big deal. So those are the two times when I would say a pull down machine is better. It's like if you're not strong enough. I can get less weight or add a lot more. Or you want to add a lot of weight. Like weighted pullups are awesome.

But let's like you like there's some pull down machines that go 300 pounds. And if you're a really strong dude and you want to do heavy, you know, weighted pull-ups, sometimes it can be a pain of the butt to get the chain and hook around a wave and do the whole thing. And getting under a pull-down machine can sometimes feel. I mean, I can get behind the argument of you're missing out on some of the scapula mobility benefits if you're going to practice behind the neck pull-downs. You've got to be really strong to do that right with body weight. Most people aren't going to be able to do that with the body weight.

And to be able to control it to where you actually retract the scapula properly. Yeah. So if you went into lap pulldowns with the thought that like, oh, I'm going to go rely today and really work on behind the neck, scapular retraction and that shoulder mobility. I definitely have more fun with grips on a pulldown machine than I do pull-ups. I mean, truth be told, the way I look at it today, even with my ex-bodybuilder background, it's like, when I'm feeling lazy, I'm doing lap pull-down. Yeah, sure. When I'm feeling like, hey, I want to get after it. I'm feeling strong or I want to. to see how I'm doing pull-ups and I'm doing weighted pull-ups. For sure. But so if the average client asked me this, I'd be like, you could never do a lap, pull-down

again, but get strong pulling your body weight up and you're just fine. Next question is from Preacherman Joe. Can you take a day or two out of the week to not eat one gram of protein per pound of body weight? I feel I need to give my stomach a break to recover. You did this for a while. I did. So if it's for your stomach, if you're noticing digestive issues and-

Nothing wrong with that. You did protein fasting for a while. I did, and it was for my gut. A lot of it was for gut health. You used to go, you used to, didn't you do like a vegan? You did like a Friday. Yeah, Friday vegans for a while early on the podcast. I did.

And a lot of it was for my gut health. And so I was basically broke down just way less calories. So if you're like, hey, I need my gut to have a break because here's a deal. High protein's great. And all the data, it's better for pretty much everything. But there are times, and this is not backed up, but this isn't based on data. This is based on my experience. I've definitely had clients where we start to push the protein and digestive issues start to become an issue.

And these are the clients that I don't have the meat that much protein. And I would have a meat more fiber. We change the protein sources that often helped. But there were those clients that no matter what, once we'd get up to a certain amount of protein, they just didn't react well. I do want to say how rare that is, though, because you just said what I was going to say, which is many times, because I can notice this. if I, because you're not, I know you talk about how you could eat red meat till you're blue in the face. If I'm eating all red meat every day, all the time, that's my only source, I start to notice. And giving myself a mixture of leaner cuts, white meat, instantly improves digestion for me and or increasing fiber.

So many times with a client like this, I will always explore that first. Yep. Because we know we know the benefits of consistently hitting protein. and how hard that is for people. And so that's already a challenge for me to get people going to. But if I had a client that was complaining about that and they said, man, Adam, when we fast or when I cut it, my protein and half, my digestion was really easy. Then I'd be like, let's try these sources.

Then let's try these sources. Exactly. I would rotate through fish and through white meat and through adding fiber and doing all that first. And if they still keep reporting back, man, just still rut. Then I'm like, okay, then yes. Then we go that right. 100% what I would do. And even today, you know, my protein intake averages between 200 or, let's say, 240 grams.

I make sure I get fiber with it. If my fiber isn't high enough with that, it can also still cause some kind of backup issues or whatever. So, but that's exactly the strategy I would have with clients. Next question is from Tyler H. 6201. Can you rehab and heal from an injury in a calorie deficit? Yeah, but it's a lot harder.

It's a lot harder. Way slower. Yeah, if you're putting your body in a catabolic state, or should I say you're making yourself more catabolic. So rehab and healing, after injury tends to be catabolic, tend to lose muscle, tend to lose strength. And you put yourself in lower calories on top of that. It can definitely impair injury.

Now, this doesn't mean you've got to go on this crazy surplus of calories. Because sometimes people do that too. They're like on the couch, they're depressed. No. They just get a bunch of garbage. It's maintaining kind of what you're already eating. Yeah, feed yourself a healthy diet. Don't go low on protein.

Don't go low on essential on fats, both of which are essential for he or. You need them both to heal your body. Proteins heal pretty much every tissue in the body and then fats for like nerve health and hormone health. If those are low and you're injured or you need to rehab or you're coming off an illness, sometimes you won't. Like if it's a really extreme, you won't heal from those. Like you break a bone and or you tear a muscle and your protein intake is below a certain number. It ain't going to heal in those extremes. Well, to Justin's point, normally just eat.

the way you were eating before typically handles it because what it ends up happening, normally when you get injured, activity level decreases. Yeah. And so activity level decreasing, maintaining caloric intake or diet the way it was prior to injury is normally enough of a surplus that it's at in so long as protein is adequate to, to recover. Because, and we've talked about this before, to be anabolic to build muscle, would fall in the same category similar to as recovery or repair here.

You don't need a huge calorie surplus to do that. You just need to be in somewhat of a surplus. And so, and a lot of times my clients that have had some sort of an injury, they're no longer working out. You still your activity already. Yeah, as much cadence or doing the thing they were doing. You know, the original studies on amino acids. So old studies on essential amino acids and branch. That would be a great thing for them to do.

They were done on burn victims. Oh, right. Yeah. So they would give burn victims. So that's a major, like, you know, getting like a large part of your body burn is like a major trauma. And they would give some of these patients high. higher amounts of protein or essential amino acids, and they would heal much faster.

So it definitely makes a difference. Yeah, there you go. That would be a great strategy right there. If you're somebody who's kind of worried about how much calories about that, like just add in that. Essential amino acids. It's a great idea. Next question is from Wilkinson, Jared.

I'm having a hard time activating my rear delts, no matter how low I go on weight or how slow I do the reps. I feel it in my traps. Any idea what's happening. Okay. So a couple of things. I mean, obviously I'd have to watch a form. but I'm going to guess.

I've done videos on this. I'm going to guess what's happening. So keep your elbows high, keep your shoulders depressed, and separate the dumbbells or pull things apart, don't row. The cue for me has always been fly out, don't fly back. The natural thing that someone does on a rear delt, whether they're on a rear delt machine, whether they're doing cable road down flies or they're doing bent over dumbbell, rear delt flies is to squeeze the shoulder blades together and fly back.

The cue is to fly out and the flying. And I have a whole, on mind pump TV, I did, I've done several YouTube videos on rear delts. And I talk about this queue. And I definitely think most people don't do rear delts properly. I think it's, and the reason why it is difficult because it's a small muscle and you have, and you're moving in a way that is similar to. to what a bunch of big muscles can activate. It can really easy turn into a row.

Yeah. And so the natural thing is for the bigger muscles to take over the movement. So it does take a really good mind muscle connection to do that. So in this case, because there's a few common issues that happen. One is what your Adam's talking about where kind of turns into a row.

The other one is you get this external rotation. So my elbows aren't high. So I'm pulling back like this. And the other one is this, this shrug. So elbows probably what's going on here. That's right. So elbows high, shoulders down. See what I did there?

So my elbows are high, shoulders down. And I'm separating. Now I'm hitting the rear delts. Yeah, your shoulder was down. These were very common cues with my clients when we were trained in this area. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

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