Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2961: 5 Things Research Gets Wrong About Building Muscle

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

MAPS Abs and Butt: https://mapsabsandbutt.com Code: LAUNCH for 40% off. Includes Butt Building Diet Guide, Women's Supplement Guide, at-home dumbbell version and a free second program at checkout (Muscle Mommy or Muscle Mommy 15). In this episode the guys break down five common hypertrophy study findings that do not hold up in the real world — why 15-20 sets per body part per week works in 8-12 week studies but burns out real people within months, why light weight and heavy weight producing the same results ignores how fatigue affects the big compound lifts, why training close to failure being essential misses how powerlifters and Olympic lifters build world-class physiques without it, why frequency not mattering is a study artifact that disappears when you control for real world volume, and why periodization making no difference only holds up because studies are too short. They also cover Sal's conversation with a kid from church whose gains jumped 20 pounds across his big lifts in one month after switching from a 5-day split to full body three days a week, the value of antagonist supersets for saving time and adding variety, the Stallone interview where he revealed bulimia and obsessive body image struggles during Rocky 3, Adam using Kion aminos during his current cut and how they are helping him preserve muscle on lower calories, the Wendy's screamo song ad that Adam thinks is brilliant marketing, Justin's viral Instagram moment ordering a well-done steak by accident, the airport buddy ugly pants trend, the sex recession data showing churchgoing married couples in their 50s and 60s reporting the best and most frequent sex, and Canada's assisted suicide statistics showing over 15,300 deaths last year representing 1 in 20 Canadian deaths. Then they coach live callers submitted through mplivecaller.com.   Apply to be a Mind Pump trainer: https://mindpumpjobs.com   T-Shirt Winners: Apple Podcasts: The Life Changer Facebook: Jay Jacob Whittaker Send name, shirt size and shipping address to: [e-mail]   SPONSORS   Kion (essential amino acids): https://getkion.com/mindpump 20% off automatically applied at checkout, no code needed.   Dose for Your Liver: https://dosedaily.co/MINDPUMP35 Code: MINDPUMP for 35% off first month subscription.   LINKS   Submit a live caller question: https://mplivecaller.com Mind Pump Store: https://mindpumpstore.com Maps Fitness Products: https://mapsfitnessproducts.com Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   0:00 - Intro 2:12 - Hypertrophy study findings that do not hold up in the real world 6:26 - Myth 1: 15-20 sets per body part is best — why it burns real people out in months 10:14 - Myth 2: Light and heavy weight build the same muscle — what the fatigue data misses 12:08 - Myth 3: You must train close to failure — what powerlifters prove without doing it 15:53 - Myth 4: More frequency does not help — why controlling volume in studies is impossible in real life 18:12 - Myth 5: Periodization makes no difference — why studies are simply too short to show it 20:01 - Antagonist supersets — why Sal says this is the best way to get more done in less time 23:38 - Stallone's interview — bulimia, Rocky 3 and the dark side of the action hero physique 28:52 - Adam using Kion aminos during his cut and the muscle-sparing effect during low calorie phases 33:33 - The Wendy's screamo ad — why Adam thinks it is one of the best pieces of fast food marketing ever 35:08 - Justin's viral well-done steak moment and the internet rage that followed 40:12 - The airport buddy ugly pants trend and what the guys would pick for each other 41:34 - Sex recession data — churchgoing married couples in their 50s and 60s report the best and most frequent sex 47:38 - Canada assisted suicide statistics — 15,300 deaths last year, 1 in 20 Canadian deaths 54:42 - Caller: Cole (South Carolina) — medical student, thyroid removed, gets MAPS 15 for the long haul 1:00:21 - Caller: Ellen (Indiana) — 32-year-old, two kids, still nursing, back from infertility history, stays the course 1:10:41 - Caller: Michel (Maryland) — OCP personality, wants to be a personal trainer, Sal talks faith and letting go 1:26:51 - Caller: Beth (Georgia) — returning NFL exec, body fat too low at 17%, needs to eat more and gain body fat

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Head on over to Mindpumpstor.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. A huge meta-analysis. of many, many studies, over 30,000 participants across all the studies, has just told us all the rules for hypertrophy, for muscle growth. This is what makes your muscles grow. Here's the deal. They're wrong.

I'm serious. They're wrong. We're going to break it down right now. Why they're wrong and what you could do to get your body to respond. Let's get to it. Wait a second. Tell me in here. Studies?

This is new? So, yeah, huge, huge meta analysis. First off, I want to say this first. Which, by the way, that's supposed to be one of the best. The best. Yeah, so a meta-analysis is when they take lots of studies and study the studies and try to find commonalities. Which is, like, the gold standard, right, of studies. And I want to say this.

I think studies on fitness are super valuable. I'm definitely not one of those guys that's like, who cares what the study says type of deal. They're super, super valuable. But that being said, we have to understand the context. we have to understand how if this applies and how it may apply to the average person that's listening right now. And that makes a big difference. So first off, let me just kind of explain what these studies look like. The vast majority of studies on strength training, the vast majority, including the ones that were in this study right here, are typically between, on average, about 12 weeks long, usually about eight weeks long.

Okay. So you're looking at studies that are over two to three months on average, because that's how long these studies are done for. You're also looking at an average amount of participants in the study, looking like around between 10 to 20. So about 10 to 20 people are in these studies. Now, some of them have more people, but on average, most of these studies that are,

that were considered for this meta-analysis or that are generally peer-reviewed and people say are good. Now, would you consider that a lot, or a wide variety? No. Okay, as I said, I wouldn't. No. And so we'll get to that.

So you're looking at typically 10, sometimes 20 people per study. The average age in the study is always less than 50, but typically you're looking at college-aged males. So I just want to paint the picture. Right. Eight to 12 weeks long, 10 to 20 people, typically dudes that are college age. Sometimes you'll have athletic women in there as well. So that's what we're looking at when we're looking at these studies. And so you've got to be very careful.

at taking what a study says and then applying it to yourself when you're, let's say, middle-aged, you've got normal life, and you're going to plan on working out for longer than eight weeks or 12 weeks. Like you're not just training for a couple months. You're like, listen, I want to be able to do this for the rest of my life. You've got a lot more variables. That's right. Like way more variables.

And so this is why it's so important to look at a study, but also consider experience. So what you would do is you would talk to coaches. and trainers that have trained people for a decade or two decades or longer, and then cross, you know, put them together and say, okay, does this supply? Have you noticed this when you train regular people? And what you're going to hear almost every time is it depends. It really does depend. So I'm going to go through some of the stuff that the study said is like,

this is what these studies say. And then I'm going to counter why this is actually not true for most people. So we'll start with the first one, which is how much volume is ideal. for hypertrophy. Okay. I know this one's BS. Yeah. So volume,

they typically count this as sets. So how many sets of the exercises that you're doing? Okay. And what the studies show is around 10 sets per week is the minimum. Okay. So you got to do at least 10 sets total per body part per week to really start to see some muscle growth. And then on average, the best seems to be about 15 to 20 sets total per body part, per week.

I'm going to say this right now. Yeah. Okay. And every trainer who's trained people for more than five years will tell you this. You take... It's a lot.

You take nine out of ten people. You apply 15 to 20 sets per body part per week on that person. They will be fried within three months. Yes. Fried. Overtrained. Nothing will happen.

They'll start to hurt themselves. It just doesn't work. So why then... And even if they can tolerate it, they'll see minimal to no results. Yeah. Because there might be somebody who's listening right now.

Why train them? not. I'm fine. You're probably not seeing results. You're tolerating. You're probably been plateaued for a really long time too. So it's like there's also that. There's this idea that because I can tolerate and I can do it, oh, I fall in this study category. That's right. So now why would this

be true in a study? Well, if I take two groups of college aged males for eight weeks, okay, so it's two months, that's it. And I take this group over here and I go, we're doing 10 sets per body part per week. And you guys are doing 20 sets per body part per week. I'm probably going to see more muscle growth in the 20 sets over that eight-week period.

Stretch it out over a year or two, and you'll start to see problems, even with the college-aged males. And this is where it becomes a problem, is that this, it's the short, the short duration and the type of people that were, you know, that were applying this to. But the average person, everybody, listen, I've been working out for years, consistent. I'm also on hormone replacement therapy, so I've got that going for me. If I did 20 sets per body part per week consistently, I could, I could, I could, I could, probably do this for about a month or so, but then I'll start to notice over training

symptoms. I can't get away with this for very long. Yes, I'm 47, but again, hormone replacement therapy, I've been doing this for years, like, it's just too much. Even lack of sleep and like extra bits of responsibility, which adds in stress to the everyday lifestyle, like, demands. It's like, you know, to add that kind of volume on top of that is just, it doesn't do well. Anybody who is in their mid-30s and above can all relate to that, remembering what it was like to be a college day's, you know, male or female. Of being able to just, yeah, I mean, I just remember not sleeping, working all day, getting right back up the next day, feeling fine. Yeah. I mean, just never happens.

Yeah, no. Just get up and rebound. I mean, and we could, we tease each other and talk about getting older. But it's like it's a part of life. Like at some point you cross over this point where you have to take getting ready for bed seriously. You have to factor in. I can't go do that that late and then get up that early in the morning, two days.

Like you just can't do that stuff anymore. Also, I just want to say this too. If you are in that age group and you're like, well, cool, I'll just keep, you know, doing tons and tons of volume. It actually works better for most of you as well when you cut things out. Like I had this kid who just, I met his dad at church. and his dad's like, hey, let me hire you to help my kid. And I said, no, no, I'll talk to him for free.

Great kid. So he came over, we sat down and went over his routine. He was doing a five-day split, typical, you know, muscle building split type of deal. And so I have him trained full body three days a week. I'm having go to bed at the same time every night, wake up at the same time. And I'm also having him not skip breakfast. So like three important things. And he's like, you really think this is going to work?

I'm like, yeah. Okay. In one month, he's added 20 pounds. In one month, he's added 20 pounds to most of his big lifts. This guy's already been working out for him in one month. Yeah. In fact, I saw him recently, and he's like, I don't know if I'm doing enough. And I'm like, well, tell me what your strength gains are like.

And he's like, well, I'm adding some weight. I said, how much? He's like, about five to 10 pounds every week. I'm like, it's working. I'm doing a good job, bro. I know. It's good. All right, here's what the study also showed, that lightweight and high reps or lower or heavy weight

and lower reps both build the same amount of muscle so long as the end. Intensity is hot. Well, yeah, but this is the problem with the eight to 12 week thing. Yeah. I've poked holes in this forever about like, this is that, that including with the rep range thing, all these all fall in the same category that novelty trumps all of this. So if somebody is, the reason why I'd be saying, if you take one group that does all all lightweight, one group that's heavy for only eight weeks, they're both going to see these great results. You flip-flop those groups. They're going to see great results again, too, because it's a novel stimulus.

And so, therefore, our conclusion is it's pretty much. the same. Well, so there's that, but here's a bigger one for me, is that lightweight at a high intensity, fatigue plays a bigger role and your ability to complete the set. It's very close to endurance. Yeah, so here's what I mean. Okay, so there's certain exercises. Yeah, you could go, you know, 18 reps close to failure and you'll be all right, like curls, trisip extensions, laterals, like that kind of stuff. But you start doing the big gross motor movements and getting close to failure at 18 reps with a deadlift. or a squat, you're fried.

Yeah. You're dead, dude. Try doing three more sets of that. It's not going to happen. You know, three sets of six reps, close to failure. It's also hard, but it's not going to destroy you. And so fatigue plays a bigger role. And so in practice, in real life, when we do this, especially over time, the heavy weight

tends to do better because of the fatigue factor. Yeah. That tends to get in the way, especially with the big compound lifts. Here's the next one. You want to build muscle. It needs to be close to failure. Period. End of story.

Now, this is, it is important to train intensely, but it's also important over long periods of time to work out with much lower intensity. Like you're not, in other words, you're not wasting your time, but not training almost to failure. That's what this message. This is,

that's the message this sends across. So it's interesting that there's controversy around this. When we see, when we have great examples of the people that track are the most consistent, which are like your power lifters and your Olympic lifters. And they don't train that way. I remember how. You can't sustain that.

You know how I remember I still, the reason why I feel so strongly about that or I think it's such an important topic is that I still remember being a trainer. I'd already been a trainer for quite some time. And I hadn't really met any power lifters or Olympic lifters. I didn't know any, but like on a serious level that were like competing at that time. And then I had a trainer.

And then I remember watching him train in his programming. And I was like baffled by like how, easy he was going all the time. I just assumed that, oh, this is the highest level of lifter, if he's lifting the most weight. And like, I assume that he, and because, and this, this is at the time where I'm also bought into these types of studies that, like, intensity is everything. Training to failure is the way to train. Like, I'm training this way. And thinking that I could go do more, right, thinking that. And then meeting somebody far stronger than I am, right? And I, at higher level, thought for sure he must be training it so intense all the time.

It was like the complete opposite. Completely blew my mind. Yeah. Like it was, and so we have that example of the strongest people that do not use intensity like that. Well, for me, what's even more important because you're right. In fact, the data in that study did show that when it comes to strength and power, training close to failure isn't always necessary.

So they at least did show that. And now my argument with that is getting stronger and being able to perform better, eventually over time, will translate to more muscle as well. So there's that. But here's the other one. It's like, when I read this, if I'm some kid reading this or some person reading this, getting into fitness, what this says to me is if I'm not training close to failure and my goals to build muscle, I'm wasting my time. That's exactly how I read it. That's what I mean by that.

That's right. That's right. I read it that way that if I'm, but yeah, like I said, here's an example of looking at this very muscular, strong dude who I was working with who was training half as as as intense as I was. This is like he's more muscular and more strong than I am. Yeah, I'm training way more intensely. This doesn't make sense to me. 100%. Well, these studies are playing a short game.

So, yeah, you can kind of show, like, good result when you get close to failure in that regard. But you've got to really draw this out for a long period of time. Like, you can't sustain that kind of intensity and be able to recover and progress. You know, like, you really have to be dialed and manage that appropriately so you can keep maximizing your next workout. Yeah, so the real question is, if you're reading this meta analysis, you're like, okay, I'm trying to build muscle. This says that to build muscle, I have to train within one or two reps,

you know, close to failure. Does that mean then I'm tired or I'm feeling a little sore? So going to the gym and working at like 50% is a waste of time. Is it better for me to go to the gym, go through the motions at 50% or is it better to skip?

And the truth is, oftentimes it's better to go and train lighter. You actually get better results. Or a third option, which is the dumb option I always. chose, which is push through it. Or just could keep going. Yeah.

Because there's the third option there that I think a lot of us probably chose. That's right. Was either, do I skip? Well, no, that's terrible. I'm going to go backwards, you know. Should I go through 50%? Well, that's a waste of time. That's a waste of time because that doesn't do any hypertrophy.

I'm trying to build muscle here. That's right. I'm just going to push through. Yeah. And failure is just going to overcome it. Yeah. I'm just going to try and overcome, like, which is as bad as, it's the worst of probably the three.

That's right. You're right. It's probably the worst of the three. Yeah. It's probably the worst of the three, right? Three choices. And that's the one you choose to do most of the time if you're this young, ambitious kid who wants to build muscle and are willing to do whatever it takes to do that.

100%. All right. Next is that the studies show that more frequency, in other words, training a body part more often throughout the week, is not going to help with hypertrophy so long as all of, as the volume is perfectly controlled for. So that's the part that we need to pay attention. Yeah, because that we know in real life,

It's not what happened. It never happened. So here's what they do in studies. We had previous studies that showed that training a body part, you know, three days a week, was better than training it twice a week. It was better than training it once a week. But then they said, oh, let's control the volume exactly the same. Let's make sure they do the exact same sets, the exact same weight, the exact same exercises.

And then what they find is that it doesn't build more muscle. Well, in the real life, when you divide up your sets over three workouts, you end up doing more volume because you're stronger. And so this, this, the study tries to, ends up controlling something that in real life never ends up being controlled. Because if I'm going to do, and I'll use a stupid example, okay, I'm going to do 15 sets of squats for the week for my legs. If I did 15 sets and one workout.

Yeah. The last 10 are worthless. The weight and the reps that I'm going to do, we're going to look very different than if I did five sets three times that week. Yeah. Yeah. So, so obviously the, the volume is. isn't controlled because in real life,

I'm more fresh each time, not as fatigue, I can go heavier. So, of course, it's going to end up. And that's why frequency ends up doing so well when it comes to building muscle. This is why when I would train clients this way would be more effective is because in the real world, I'm not perfectly controlling the volume.

It makes no sense to you. Not to mention the other argument that we make for this all the time, which is that three times a week means more practice than a lift. That's right. Lifting is a skill. That's right. Getting better at that skill allows you to reap more from that skill, too.

There's also this saying, right? You're more efficient with your energy. And you guys have heard, you've heard, you've heard practice makes perfect. But then you've also heard this one, perfect practice makes perfect. Have you heard that before? Okay. Practicing a lift when you're super fatigue is practicing bad technique. It just is, dude.

You do 15 sets of squats in one day. I'm going to tell you right now, by set eight, your form is starting to look crappy. I wish I, like, that's such my motto, like, as a coach. but like I wish I was like that when I was an athlete. Yeah. Nobody really, you know, figured that out when I was, when I was training. But that would have been huge. Totally.

And then lastly, uh, the studies said or the meta analysis says that periodization, changing rep ranges and intensity really doesn't make a difference for hypertrophy. And I'm going to tell you something. Really? Yeah. That's even what they, with that. Yeah. Because it's, they're 12 weeks longer.

Yeah. Yeah. Periodization doesn't make a difference when you're doing it for 12 weeks. It doesn't make a difference when you're doing it for, you know, maybe 12, 20 weeks. But over a year, two years, three years, makes a big difference. It will. It starts to make a really big difference. And the problem is studies are limited. So this is why they're never perfect.

You can only have so many people in there. You can only control it so well. And you can only do it for so long because they're expensive. Yeah. So it's like, what are we going to do? We're going to get 100 people study different ways of strength training over five years. That would cost billions of dollars. You'd never be able to do that.

Yeah. So periodization is applied in every sport because we know it prevents injury. We know it produces better results. We know this. So that's why once this study comes out, I'm like, but that's not true. It just doesn't work. I'm actually surprised, though, still, because I definitely wouldn't be surprised if it was six to eight weeks because it's just not enough time. But 12 weeks, at least in my experience, I can see it.

But you've been training for longer than 12 weeks. Yeah. It's still not a 12-week study for you because you've been doing it for years and years. And we're also talking about hypertrophy, which takes a one. while. So periodization for strength and performance in a 12-week study shows better. That's a good point. Yeah.

That's a good point. Yeah. But when it comes to hypertrophy, which takes a long time, you've got to be patient. You're not going to see much in 20 weeks with something like that. That's true. That's a good point. If you plan on working out for longer than that, it makes a huge difference. It makes a really big difference.

Speaking of working out, this was last week, it was really occurring to me the value of supersets. So super sets are for people listening is when you do two exercises back to back. You do one, then you move to another exercise. Adam introduces me and killed me. Super sets, yeah. Well, there's different ways to do supersets, okay? One way, just generally, the general two ways to do supersets is you do the same body part for two exercises.

Another way to do super sets is to do two different body parts with two different exercises. A lot of people like to do the same body part. The problem with that is fatigue sets in, becomes a little bit more endurance. it's high intensity. Is it really better? Maybe, maybe not. But when you do different body part supersets, especially antagonistic body parts,

it's a great way, so long as you've got decent fitness, it's a great way to save time. Yeah. Great. So, if I'm, today I'm going to go hit chest and back and I'm going to do, you know,

five sets of each. I could go straight from chest, straight to back, and each body part doesn't affect each other body. You don't lose a lot of strength. I don't get fatigued. Yeah, yeah. Because of the little muscle endurance and kicks in

because obviously you're constantly working. Yeah. rest, but it's almost as good as me resting in between. Agreed. Setts thing. So important. But I'm like, can you do that with supersets? Totally.

I mean, I've made this case on the podcast for a long time. If you've listened long enough, I've always advocated for it. This is how I, I don't program that type of stuff. I allow life to get happen. And then it happens. And then it happens. And then it's so beautiful because it's like, oh, it's been a while since I've done this.

This is going to be a great workout. instead of having the attitude of like, oh, I only got 20 minutes to get this in. I don't have enough time to get my full 50 minute workout that I wanted to do. It's like, oh, you know what I'll do is I'll super set everything

and I'll get out of here in 20 minutes and I'm going to, and you know what? I haven't done that in so long. It's going to shock my body. It's going to be great. It's going to be different. You know,

you know, it's another thing we don't consider while we do when we were trainers. This was actually one number one consideration as trainers, but a lot of people don't consider or at least studies don't is just the fact that you enjoy it.

Like, oh, it doesn't give you better results. Yeah, but did you have fun? Way more fun. Let's go. Yeah. That's such an important thing. Well, yeah, that's the Paul Check motto.

You know, I feel like he preaches that so much. Yeah. Yeah. It's so important. I mean, being consistent, which Justin brought up earlier, is, is more important than anything else. You know, you could. And I've also made this case, too, is that you could go to the gym and never train a failure

and just go in there and get a good work, get good at the exercises, get a good workout and enjoy it and just, I mean, you keep the diet. Right. Over time, you will watch your body change. You know, I was talking to my friend over the weekend, because we were talking about fitness, and, you know, I was talking about my challenges with it. And he's like, and so I definitely have some challenges with being too obsessive with working out. But then he asked me, he goes, do you actually enjoy it? Like, literally do you enjoy it? Do you have fun way?

Like, dude, I love it. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, that's played the biggest role in my consistency is I would say, even if I, regardless of how I looked and what it produced, I just enjoy. I just enjoy doing it. And so that's such an important thing for people to consider. Like find a way to enjoy your workouts.

And if that means you do a less effective, quote unquote, workout, so be it. You're more likely to be consistent because you're just having fun. I mean, that's also got to be one of the hardest things for you when you think about, like, trying to work on the obsessiveness of it. Because there is such an enjoyment factor and positive health factor that you get, you know, even though you know you could probably take it to the edge and it's too much. and it can affect other things, some other things negatively. It has so many positives that it's got to be really a hard thing for you to, like, reconcile.

Totally. Did you see that Stallone interview I sent over? Oh, I didn't watch it. I saw, like, half of it. It's really short. It's really good. Yeah, really good. Never heard him say that before.

Yeah, I was, like, surprised, you know, on some level. Obviously, I wasn't surprised on the fact that, like, he was kind of, like, tormented by being so treaded. And at that point where he was like, you know, trying so hard to maintain this look, this physique and all that's where he like became bulimic. It happened right around Rocky 3, right? Yeah. Yeah, he started getting super shredded. And then he just became like an identity for him and like tortured him.

And so but yeah, he became very obsessed and like, you know, I'm like, was taking all the the things to keep it up and keep the facade up. It was cool to see him like, you know, be vulnerable about that. He was very vulnerable. I've actually never, Borderline talked negatively about, yeah, he did. Yeah, like I've never heard him talk like that where like he was, oh,

big problems. Yes. Yeah, like total obsession. Well, I couldn't imagine. He teetered off into, yeah, the darkness. Well, I couldn't imagine being that famous and being connected large, a big part to how you look. Remember in the 80s, in the 90s,

he was one of the action. Oh, I mean, he's ours. He's one of the, in 90s, right? I mean, Arnold was, like, competing to look like him at that point. Like, just the shreddedness and all this. He's like, whatever Stallone is doing, I have to do it even better. You know, he'd have bigger guns.

If that's our identity and you get all this love for it and make all this money and get all the success, like letting go of that, that could be so hard. So hard. I heard him even say he was bulimic. Yeah, he did say. That's what he said. Did you know that? I didn't know that.

I did not know that either. Yeah, I did not know that. That's crazy. It's way crazy. He did get super shredded for, uh, it was Rocky 3, 4, Rambus. Rambo. I know he tore his peck. Yeah.

Training for Rocky 4, I want to, I think. He had Franco Colombo train him. Oh, wow. And they were trying to go, he was trying to compete with Franco with Lyft, which is stupid. That is crazy. He's so strong, dude. And he tore his peck. So when you see him Stallone, you'll notice one of his pecks looks a little different.

Because that thing I got going on now. Golf ball. Are you going to go get it? Are you going to go get it? I've actually been waiting to see your boy. come back in here because I want to talk to them more because if I don't know if you do you remember I actually had huge bruising on my bicep right here yep so um I'm wanting I want to hear his opinion if there if I did something both to the bicep and the peck major like if if there was if

there's because I get so much pain from bicep I try to do bicep curls the other day again for the first time oh even in the in the in the forward position I still can't do more than 35 pounds. Yeah. I still, they're like, and I pushed it and just to see.

You're going to have to get image, dude, to have them look and see what's on. Yeah, dude. I mean, there's definitely, I mean,

there's definitely some serious damage there. It's like, what I'm curious about is like, can we fix it? Um, what will they do, you know, to fix it? I mean, it'd be awesome.

I mean, surgery is probably inevitable. I mean, there's no way that this long, I mean, this has been, this is almost two summers ago. It's been,

yeah, and it still hurts. Yeah. Oh, yeah. a lot, too. It's not like enough for me to not train biceps. Like, I'm not trained biceps at all.

And then I do what I did the other day. I was wondering. I was looking at your arm. I was like, I set myself over that. Thank God I overcompensated for a really long time. You got enough to lose. So,

but yeah, I mean, it's crazy, which is really tough because, even though I had already worked through, like how much I love to train that. And then I've talked many times on the podcast, how I rarely have to train them.

I still enjoy it, you know what I'm saying? It's still a good body part. So, tell me, so, because you're, I'm now trying to move away. I'm still trying to eat, you know, eat only when I'm hungry, which means I'm eating less. But it turned in now and I'm getting shredded.

I talked about this on the last episode. It's like, you know, I go on extreme here, extreme in that direction. But I know you're still kind of focused on getting lean, even though your trip got canceled or whatever. Are you, I saw you using Keon's essential. Are you using them throughout the day?

Oh, yeah, three times a day. Makes a difference. I mean, I tracked. I don't know if you guys remember. When we did that whole, when I did that series, which was so great because I was tracking everything. I was tracking with the Dex-X-Can. I've done that forever with competing, so I know what a normal cut looks like. I know what to anticipate.

What you expect. Yeah, what to expect. And I thought, all this would be great because that was right around the time when we were starting to take Keon as a partner. And, you know, we were all kind of, you know, it's not that often where our. Our paradigm has been shattered. Our paradigm was shattered in that situation where we had talked a lot of shit about amino acids for building muscle

that they're overrated. Or preserving muscle. Yeah, or yeah. And so... We got presented with some pretty interesting data. No. And so it was fascinating. Like, okay, cool, let me put this to practice.

I'm right in the middle of running my series. And I already did a dexta scan. I'm going into a cut. I know what to expect on... And so what I mean by that, so the audience understands, is that when you are cutting, especially cutting to get single digit body fat pretty aggressively like that,

like for a show or trying to get down to single digits. You know, it's inevitable you're going to lose some muscle. You expect it. The goal is lose as little as possible and shred all body fat. That's right. It's almost impossible, okay, without. Nobody who, nobody gets to single body fat, single digit body fat without losing some. I mean, that's what you should expect.

Yeah. And hence why so many bodybuilders put on so much mass in the off season. That's right. so that when they shred down, they know they're going to lose some. But again, the game is how little can you lose? I lost none. That was wild.

That was, like unhurtiful. And you're taking, what, seven capsules three times a day? Yep. Yeah. Yep. So I just got a bottle here because I'm going to start throwing those at myself. I took it before we podcasted right now and took it on my trip. Because I did, back when we were working with them,

I did experiment with them, but I was not in the cut. I was just actually just trying to build. And they did notice. Well, I know, he made the case for a positive, even if you are hitting protein, I think it's really probably important when you're as low a cow, especially right now, I'm low calorie. Perfect example, too, this trip, which is also, you know, interesting thing to talk about as I'm going through this, like strategies for people. You know, I had a three-day trip where I was on the road 10 hours a day, every day.

And so just, and I brought a cooler with my protein shakes and some bars. I had beef jerky when I could get to it. So those were like my like safe foods. But it was I had to eat out. It was I didn't have a lot of, I couldn't even. I wasn't even home in time to prep food before I go out. And so, and we're in cars with no access to anything. So prepping wasn't even an option.

It was just like. And so the strategy for me becomes, uh, just do as little damage as I can to the physique right now as I pause can. And what that looks like for me is keeping the calories just really low. and trying to get as much the protein target as I possibly can. I'm not being able to train. I'm not being able to hit adequate calories and everything that I need. And so I'd rather caution because I don't want to put body fat on a trip with that,

which very easily, as we're hitting truck stops and burger joints and bars. And like, that's what we're eating at places like that every day, two, three times a day. So I was the guy that was, you know, pulling that out or I was ordering a chicken salad when I could. and stuff like that. And, you know, I came back and I didn't make, I didn't make any progress, but I also didn't have a slide. I didn't slide back. And so it's like a, like a, you do the typical like, when I do eat, I'll avoid, you

know, carbohydrates. I'll eat protein first. And hey, if there's no good options fast. Yeah. So like, so like one of the places like the best healthy choice was like pull pork or brisket or something like that. It's just like, you know, I'm not going to have that on the bun with the fries. So with that, just straight give me the brisket.

Just give me the brisket. and I'll just, I'll eat the brisket, you know, like so I did things like that. Because there's plenty of oils and butter and extra calories I'm getting in there, and I'm not going to throw that on top of the carbs and everything else. You know where I ate yesterday? And they actually have the calories on the menu, and it's hilarious to see what the calories are on the menu. Cheesecake Factory. Find me a meal under 13-0.

I was going to say they're like crazy. All the salads. Even the salads. The salad's like 13-00-com. Yeah, it's nuts. Dude, they're crazy. The amount of calories of their meals. People have actually, like, decided to get the burger and the fries instead because it was like the same calories.

As the salad. Yeah, forget it. Dude, my wife made it. She made such a good point about salad. So when you eat a salad and it's just leaves and dressing, sometimes you'll go to, you'll go somewhere. And that'll be it. It'll be leaves, maybe a couple tomatoes. Yeah.

And dressing. Yeah. Waste of time. You know what you're basically doing? Just drinking dressing. Yes, you want. Because lettuce is nothing. The lettuce is like, lettuce is nothing.

The leaves, I'm going to piss off some people. The leaves and salads have almost no nutritional value. They have almost no gut health value. It's arguably the closest thing to water. It's nothing. You got leaves and celery. I argue with my dad about this all the time. It's nothing.

And also, you're like, you get no nutritional value at all. And then you put your buttermilk branch dressing. Even if you put like, even if you use the different leaves, like the arugula and that, look at the nutrient content of those. Like nothing. It's nothing. Yeah. All you're doing is you might as well.

Water. Yeah. Because she made a joke. We were at a wedding and a little bit of fiber. They had salad and she's like, you just ask him for a cup of dressing. Yeah. What's the difference? I know.

So you have to have like the butter or the butter like croutons. You got to have the cheese. You got to have the bacon and all that to actually make it. Otherwise it's a waste of time. Put some food on there. Yeah. Well, speaking of that too. Like have you guys.

So I always love paying attention to like companies that do something cool and creative and like, like, you know, marketing wise and like they know their audience really well. Like back in the day it was like, you know, Jack in the Box. They knew that their whole thing was like stoners. Like so Wendy's knows like, you know, I guess like they have a big demographic or like, you know, kids that go to rock concerts and like, you know, emo and. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

So they. Wendy's his emo? Dude. So they actually like hired a legit band to create a song for them. And it's like a hit song. It's a sick song. Really? It's literally just about like some girl not wanting fries.

And they wrote this whole song about it. It's like a like a like a like a screamo kind of song. And I think it's like Memphis Mayfire or Emery or the lead singer from it like did it. And like I was like, is this a real song and this is an ad. It's just an ad. It's a full song. I do love good marketing like that. It's sick.

Does it speak to the fact that when you go to a restaurant like that with your girlfriend or your wife and she says, no, I don't, I wouldn't like anything. That she's going to eat off your plate. They're hitting that pain point. That's it. And I was like, this is brilliant. And he even threw in like the square patty, you know, and all that. I'm like, oh, my God, dude.

That's awesome. The name of the song is she said she didn't want fries. Yes. Oh, my God. That's actually, that's actually, you didn't want fries. I got some data that is so amazing right now. It's going viral. It's so amazing because it's so.

More, more vile than Justin's number seven steak. Oh, bro. Oh, what? What? What? So, we did it pissed off the whole internet. It's like the most. It's like the most viral thing we ever posted on Instagram,

and it's all because you said you liked your steak well done, which was an accident. Which is so funny because, like, again, like, I get it. Like, people who are just pissed, you know, and like, no, it's like blasphemy. And it's funny. You guys know, I've been like to restaurants. I order it medium to medium rare. Yeah, we order to same.

Every time. So you just mistaken. So I just was like, when we do it. When you look at the picture to your defense, like you, it's hard to tell. Yeah. Yeah. It's not. And I, again, like, I.

I was, and again, I was way overthinking this because I'm like, eight million people. Like, and like, oh my God, like, how do I defend myself? I can't defend myself. I just, like, pointed to that. So I was like, I guess bring on the heat, you know, like, I fucked up. But at the same time, I was like, I don't know, dude, maybe my subconscious, like, because I had a rare steak and I went more in the rare side. And it was like so chewy and gnarly and, like, grizzly.

And I don't know. That was the last time I had, like, and it was like one of those restaurants that are kind of like mid-tier. Overcompensated. Like muscle overcompensated and like anyways. But that's, that's my only thought process behind it. But we do these like shotgun, like video and like boom, boom, boom.

I had like, this, this, this. And I just was looking at it and I'm like, oh, cool. Dude, I went to it. I had a friend. Flame roasted. I had a friend order a steak blue. Have you heard of blue?

Yeah, yeah. Blue is like, do you know what that is? That's literally like this. And then put it on the plate. What? Yeah, yeah. It's like literally sting it on each side and then put it back on the plate. Yeah.

Gross. So literally, you know, it's so funny about that, too, it's like, that's the hack, I guess.

So we just, you just need to say one thing wrong. No, it's true. And then the entire, like, oh, you get all these views and millions.

It's so dumb. Yeah. Like, literally, like, I messed up. And so it's like, it is.

It's rage bait. No, it's totally. It's rage bait. Yeah. Well, I mean, Danny set me up, that's why I was stressing about the marriage one.

I'm like, oh, man, she put me on the spot with some questions. I'm like, There's a handful of people. You didn't let me tease them. Because I knew it when I did it. It's like, it's like him doing the steak.

He's like, I know I don't order a seven. I'm like, that sounds really bad the way that comes out. Yeah, but what was weird is, no, I don't do that. What was weird is you've never told me to not tease you publicly, which was weird. When's Adam ever said that? He's always like, yeah, roast me. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, oh, watch this.

Look what I'm going to say. He's like, no, don't say anything, bro. I'm like, oh, my God, bro. Well, probably because it's feeling. I was getting comments. You know why. And something like that, something like that, I feel like Katrina is an innocent bystander in that one.

So if it was just me... Yeah, but she's so secure. I know she is. Which is even more reason why I'm like, I don't want to bring it on to her, you know what I'm saying? So it's like that if it was just me, it's like bring it on like... Sure, I like it.

But it's just like, I already probably didn't make her look the greatest in that light already, you know, because the way it was positioned. And then it's like, if you lean into it, it's like, I don't want to add any... Not that fine. Because it doesn't feel like it. Because I don't mind getting burned, getting her burn when she's already

like not a fan of it but I think she's I think I don't know if she's going to or not but I heard Danny and I heard her say fine I will she said she goes can I do a video with you and with her? Yeah yeah. Oh yeah she doesn't even have a social media I know I know so I think because

it did get enough like I think people want to hear like her thoughts like who's this this asshole he can't this girl can't absolutely put up this guy so I just hope she does she doesn't like she doesn't roast me too She doesn't put me on blast like that And she like gets my back

Maybe I'll like serve you guys steak while you're gonna Just char-the shit out of it. Well you know so hockey puck I mean looking back now It's kind of obvious that something like that would happen Because it's funny to me So Katrina is is a well done steak person And it's the big joke whenever we go out to it

She does order it she likes it ruined you say Oh yeah well done she tells she tells the waiter To leave it on the grill and walk away Like that's how she orders it She goes, well done. And I always follow up with a joke like, just go pick up some beef jerky across the street from the gas station. She won't know the difference.

So every kind of fine dining, you know, restaurant. And so most people at this point, most people are pretty good, but there's some places we'll go and the chef will refuse to do it. The chef won't even do it. So she'll ask, well done. And it'll still come back medium. Like, there's some places where chefs are like refused to cook a steak like that. And it's just like, you get it.

A restaurant and meals was like that. Yeah. French fine dining. Yes. Dude, nothing past like medium rare. That's right. That's like some places. So I get that.

So like that's like a big. I know. I was thinking about that too. I was like, why I so much hate? And I'm like, oh, that's why. I worked in the restaurant industry. I know better. There's videos on, on social media where people go to Italian coffee shops and ask for like soy milk.

And just to look at the guy's face like, no. So what is? No. Like, how dare you? Get out of my head. So on this trip when we were eating, we were talking about all these trends that I didn't even know we're happening on the internet right now that some of them were hilarious. that some of them were hilarious. Have you guys seen the airport buddies with the pants trend?

No. Okay, so like five or six buddies all go to the airport. Now, we all, so we could do this together because we fly it together so much. You got shirts too. So they, so we all buy pants for each other and you don't know what it is. You just have to go to the bathroom and put them on and wear them on the plane. Did you like, oh, jazzled pants and like, they're over the top. They're like over the top pants.

Oh, that right there. with the elephant ones. Oh, that's awesome. Oh, it is hilarious. Because we would do that. Oh, we would. I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, can I tell you what the ones I would get?

Dude, do you have to tell you what I would get? What? Because once I say these pants, you tell me where you'd see these. Cookie Monster pajama bottoms. Oh, yeah, that'd be hilarious. Yeah. It's Walmart special. Walmart.

You see that? Yeah. Late night, you know, shopping. I didn't even know this was, I didn't know it was a trend at all. I went down the rabbit hole of my buddies watching them and I'm like, oh, these are hilarious. I would totally do this for guys. We would agree to do it to each other. It's like you don't know what it is until you go.

So it's just like we hand you. Like me, the three of us would know what we got done. Yeah. You know, and the three of you would know, you know, so every like you, but you don't know what you get. And so it's just like, you go that bathroom. You open up, you just come out. And then all the guys are just like.

Oh, that's dangerous. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was hilarious. All right. Let me go back. Let me go to my study now that I brought up earlier. I think it's so, so awesome. So did you guys know that they're noticing in,

it's a trend that they've noticed now. since the 90s, they call it the sex recession. Okay? People are having less sex. Couples in particular are having less sex. Do you guys know that there's one group that has avoided the sex recession? So if you look, people look this up, sex recession. Married people.

You'll see in the data. No, we're talking couples now. In the data, couples, married couples are just having less and less sex. This just seems to be happening. So every time I want an age group? Well, there's a, there's a group, there's a subgroup of married couples that are having great sex and reporting great sex. And it's the people who people you would think are not doing it. They're great. Yeah, the Christians. That's right. People who go to church regularly. It's because they

held out for 20 years. They held out for 25 years. They're making up for time right there, dog. How crazy is this? Husbands and wives who attend religious services at least twice a month are having the best, they're reporting the best sex and they're having the most sex. And these are couples who've been married a long time. So they're like young couples. They're like in their 50s. 60s and it's going viral right now because there's a funny argument to that you know that right they have nothing to compare to well that's great so what so it's the best sex they've had so they're eating at a three-star restaurant but they have no idea what a five-star restaurant it's like i don't think that's what it is i'm just i'm just say there's a there's a funny comeback to that you have to you have to also

throw in that so here's why here's and i i know people will say that but here's what the data shows the data shows, because we think that what we think, the world would tell you that good sex is lots of tricks, lots of stamina, sexy young body, okay? Here's what the data shows. It's about connection. These are people in their 50s and 60s who've been married forever. They're not doing all this crazy stuff. They're just having really fulfilling sex lives because the sex comes out of connection

of love. It's not sex by itself. Dude, these polyamory influencers have really fallen off, huh? Yeah. I don't see any more of those. Weird. Yeah, it's weird. I wonder what happened.

I know. They were so evolved. I was like that or whatever. You know how popular that was when we first started the podcast? Dude, everybody in our space. Every one of our, every other one of our friends was like swinging and into the open relationship and all that. I remember that. It was big.

Which is funny because isn't Sex at Dawn, which was the Bible for them, right? Yeah. It was a older book, wasn't it? Or did that come out around that time? Around that time. Oh, that explains it. Can you pull up? When did Sex at Dawn come out?

Yeah. Chris Nolan, right? I think is the office. You know, when, you know, what's crazy is when you read study books like that or studies around that, 2010, yeah, see. When we point to our, I guess you could call it primal instincts, that is not, that does not mean that's the way we should be. Yeah, right.

That was a, you know, I read that book with Katrina, and it was, or we listened to that book together, and it was a really good list. That's right around when your proposition, Justin. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, honey. Hey, guys. I know you like his calves.

Why is there a chair in the bedroom? He's so hairy. No, it was a great exercise for us to do that. What it did do is create great dialogue in conversation with her and I. And her and I did not go into it like, hey, what's to think about? We weren't as your tongue and cheek, right? It was so popular in the space. Just straight curious.

And her and I, that was the time when we were listening to books a lot together. Okay, let's listen to this book together. And it was. It was great dialogue. And one of the best takeaways, though, I thought that we got from it is what you're saying right now is how much our animals things with it. And then actually the resistance of that and the value of resisting of that. And then also having empathy for the other person of like they have to have to have to be able to do that and resist them.

Because the animal instinct is to do these types of things. But the benefit of us resisting and how much more that would bond and connect us. And there's way more value. Yeah. I remember I won't say who it is. Yeah. We took a very different take on it than what I felt like the community did. Because you actually read it and it's not like this, like what I thought everybody was presenting it like.

Like I thought it was makes this hard case for, no, it doesn't really. It really makes a case for like how animalistic we are and how natural that is to do that. Doesn't make the case that you should. Natural, quote unquote, isn't best. Like when you look at, well, this is what we naturally. So back then, I won't say too much. We also used to kill the weakest. And it's, that's how you saw.

So the fitness space, the special media, social media fitness space was going weird in that direction. So he had all these fitness people like, oh, we're polyamorous. It's so evolved, you know, whatever. And all of us were kind of rolling our eyes. And there was one person in particular who was kind of, you know, blowing his trumpet. Won't say who it is. And I remember he did a whole post. Thanks.

He did a whole post about how it's great. It's evolved. It requires lots of communication and connection between your partners, this and that. Meanwhile, they're a fitness person. And so I remember I commented underneath it. I said, you know, what do you say to the person whose desires are to eat donuts and candy and not move? Yeah. Do they listen to their animal instincts?

Or is there more value in denying some of those things for a greater value? And it was crazy to me. It was, I blew his mind. And you can see lots of people liking it and saying, absolutely. And it's like, how do you piece that together with health and fitness? But you can't piece it together with your hedonistic desires to just have sex with lots of different people. Right. Disconnected.

A hundred, big, big time. Yeah. But very great, great parallel to those. two things like that. Yeah. And I felt like that was, that was why it was such an interesting read for her and I, because we got, we got that from that. It wasn't like that this was like, hey, green light, we should fuck everybody now. It was like, hey, this is like, I'm convinced. It was like, it was actually more like so much more respect for the other person for being able to resist that. Like, knowing like, man, your partner probably, no matter what, no matter how

much they love or the person, like there's an animal instinct that makes you want to do this. And the discipline to be able to resist from that is because of the love that they have and respect for the other person. And it's like, and that, the thought of that gained more value and more connection. So that was like what I got from it. All right. You guys ready for an interesting statistic? Yeah.

Did you guys, I just, just read this the other day. The assisted suicide deaths in Canada. So you guys know this. Yeah, yeah. So Canada a while ago now, they do this now. If you're terminally ill, mentally ill, if you're like, hey, I don't want to live anymore, it's, they've reduced a lot of friction. Yeah.

where they can essentially put you to sleep. It's assisted suicide. In fact, there was a recent story I talked about in last podcast where this grandmother with cancer was forced. The doctors forced it. She resisted it. She fought it and they forced her to die,

which is crazy. And they're a lawsuit right now. Anyway, there are more assisted suicide deaths in Canada than there are firearm deaths in America. What? So you know they always talk about how dangerous it is that we have guns. There's more medically assisted suicide deaths.

Canada than firearm deaths in America right now. That's an interest so alarming. Isn't that wild? It's crazy. Crazy. That is a crazy staff. It's crazy. How many, yeah, it's, to me, it was so wild that they allowed even mental illness to be.

So if you want to kill yourself, essentially, then they'll let you, they'll help you. Yeah. Like, what about treatment, you know? Yeah. Look at. Assistant dying. What is that said? One in 20 Canadian deaths.

One in 20. It's so anti-human, dude. It's so evil. What are you doing? Is it crazy? That is weird, dude. I know, I know, bro. Wow.

I mean. What is the math on that? What's like how many, how many? Yeah, look up the total numbers, Doug, Doug. Let's say how many assisted suicide? Last year, 15,300 people underwent assisted dying last year. 15,000 people last year alone. Now, is there any, is there something?

Because I'm not, obviously, I'm not, I'm not thinking of all the potential case. Like what are there any situations where this makes sense? I mean we're not thinking about it like it's a super slippery slope. No, I get that. Because we either we either what I'm trying to do is trying to do, I'm trying to do some some yeah they'll make the case that there's like terminal yeah there'll be lots of pain yeah the pain thing and that's that's a very slippery slope here's here's the way I look at it. We either value human life above all things and consider it special we don't.

don't. Because the reason why I'm asking that is just because, okay, give me those cases and then go of the 15,300, what percentage of those? Because is it 99% of them are those? And then there's 1% is this weird outlier thing? Or is there a lot of these? All of them had

some kind of illness or something. So they were all in the medical system. No, of course. But it's like the mental illness one. I can't believe that they could qualify with that. Like you're depressed. I know, but you see where I'm going with this, right? It's like, okay, it's, okay, so yes, it is.

They're probably highlighting the extremes. Exactly. And so I don't want to be as like this alarmist where it's like, there was three cases that were actual mental people. And what we don't know is how extreme those cases were and all these things like that. And so 15,298 of it were actually ones where, if it was your family member,

you would have been like, let him go. You know, they're on their last one. They're in so much pain, let them go type of deal. Like, that's what I would want to know more. This is what I think. Because you got to know, Sal, that this is the stuff that makes news and headlines and go viral and people talk about it because that's so alarm. Yeah, but you got to dive deeper than the data data guy. I lost my grandmother, my grandfather.

I had somebody who was terminal cancer. If my close family member who had terminal cancer was trying to kill herself, I would try to stop her. I just would. I wouldn't. I wouldn't be like, all right, go ahead and do it. I just wouldn't. That's why I'm asking the question. What's the case where you would? I don't think I would.

I don't think I ever would. I don't know. I think you either, look, human life has to be deemed really special and different than in separate from like your dog. Like you put your dog down because he's suffering. That's a dog. But for humans. If I'm on the bed and I'm in horrible pain and a tube is in my mouth and I can't even

really communicate with you guys other than typing on something. And I've been there and I'm not leaving there anytime soon. And I ask, I want to say my goodbyes and. go versus drift away. Like, I don't know. I don't know if that's, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know, I don't, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, these are people that are consent. That would be a different. Yeah, a lot of these are just like ham terminal.

I mean, a lot of pain. There was a case of this woman who had severe depression. Um, and she was, she was, she just, you know, so the ones that like, and cognitively make that decision. Yeah. Yeah. So, none of the other ones are. in that category or in that 50.

So here, let me put it this way. Because that's trying to get to the bottom. Let me put it this way. In America, if someone's on life support, you can turn off life support. Yeah. If they're not responsible. And that won't go in that,

that doesn't go in that number. That's not assisted suicide. Okay, so that doesn't go into that category. That's what I'm trying to get at right now. It's like, how much of like, are we lumping, convoluting, like, things that would have been like, so like we have a,

so my dad has a family friend right now who's been in a coma for like three months. And there's some, and so they're now discussing should they take them off life support. That's not the same as assisted suicide. Okay. So they wouldn't even,

they wouldn't even count that in the 15,300. No. Okay. No. Assisted suicide is its own category. So this is literally every single person in this 15,300 is saying like, hey, kill me. They could literally vocalize that and say, I don't want to live anymore.

In some way, shape, or form. And there's, like I said, there was a case of the grandmother who they forced it on her to the point where she got bloodied because they were trying to jab her and she was blocking it. There was one case I read about with this woman who was like in her, I want to say 40s, who had chronic depression and she made the case that she was suffering and her family was fighting it

and they were saying please don't do this and she was fighting and she won and she got the courts in Canada said yes she can she can go ahead and do assisted suicide and the family was begging them not to that's a case that happened

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Use the code mine pump for 35% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Cole from South Carolina. Cole, what's up, dude? What's up, man? Cole. Hey, guys, how we doing? Good.

Good, dude. How can we help you? Yeah, so a couple of weeks ago, I had a parathyroidectamine. And after some tests and everything, they realized my calcium was super off. And they were like, well, we see this tumor in your neck. And so we need to get it removed. and then they did August 10th, and one week later, I started medical school. So it was quite a quick journey, quick turnaround.

And here I am now in my fourth week of medical school. And I follow a few of your programs, but I'm just trying to look for the best balance, you know, as far as trying to get back in recovery and get back to the gym and manage this new lifestyle. Yeah, good. I'm assuming you're on thyroid medication now. I am. Okay, good. So that's balanced.

And I'm sure you know this already. You know, that's one of the things that you can solve relatively easy with modern medicine. So just taking thyroid seems to be a pretty good job of replacing when there's a missing thyroid. The thing that I want you to consider the most, the most important thing is the load, the workload that medical school places on you. Now, the type of person that tends to go to medical school and the type of person that makes it through medical school is also the kind of person that has a person. poor gauge on stress. It tends to fuel them. Tolerating it. Yeah. So, and I've worked with a lot of doctors and surgeons, and it's just

consistent across the board. It's just, you know, no, I'm good. I'm fine. In fact, they kind of thrive on it a little bit. And so my job as a coach was always to try to train them appropriately, which always felt to them like too little. Pull them back. They always, in fact, I got a buddy right now that I'm, he's an ER doctor surgeon. And he'll come in and be like, no, man, I need you kick my ass. I need you kick my ass. And I'm like, listen, dude, no, we're going to train this. You're going to, you know, and I train him.

He's like, that was too easy. And then meanwhile, he's getting stronger. But it's a constant conversation. Okay, so where am I going with this? Your program is math 15. Yep. That's it. Yeah.

None of our other programs will be appropriate for you while you go through medical school while you're in residency. And also, depending on what kind of medicine you practice. What kind of doctor do you want to be? I really don't know yet. I'll be honest, after this recent kind of chapter, I'm interested in oncology, but I've still got plenty of time to make that decision. Well, if it's oncology, you're going to be doing Mass 15 for the rest of your life.

Yeah. I will say, I love PPL. I did that during the summer, and so I was kind of interested in, like, the two up or two lower that came out. But I had a feeling that y'all would recommend MAPS 15. You just won't get good results. doing it, bro. It's just going to be too much. Even if you did, because you're still young and pretty resilient, you would get better results on Map 15. Yeah. So that's just it. It's just that. And PPL, not too bad. That's probably one of our moderate volume. Like, it's not super high.

It's not overwhelming. But definitely, you'll get better on Mass 15. Match 15 is just more appropriate for what you're heading into. You'll get better results. Do you do things outside of the gym? Do you like to deal with their physical activities? Yeah, so I started picking up basketball again. Then Charleston's a huge running community, so I like to do that. Good. So here's the thing. So the workout, the structured workout portion is math 15.

But that doesn't mean don't be active outside of that. Okay. So the way you would treat outside activity is not like a workout. So the mistake you can make is be like, I got to go pay some basketball so I can burn some calories. The proper way to do it is, man, I'm going to go have some. fun. Yeah. And so if you treat activity like that, like, man, I'm going to go have some fun. And then your base program is Mass 15. You're going to do great, bro. You're going to get great results. You're going to consistently get stronger. It'll take you through medical school. It'll make

you resilient. But if you're like chasing the sweat and the workouts all the time, you're going to burn yourself out real quick. And we'll send you Maps 15 and then go through just go through the library those. We have so many of them just rotate. You already got Mass 15. Don't you? already have it. Yeah, I've got a couple of them. And actually, that's one of of the things I wanted to ask. Coming out of the summer, did PPL, and I'm kind of coming back slowly to the weights, just as more and more I get cleared. What's your take on Maps 15 Cemetery? Should I do that a little bit later? Should I go ahead and run that now? No, let's go, dude. I'll give it to you now. Okay. Yeah, you'll love it. All right, appreciate it.

You got it, man. Good luck, dude. Yeah, yeah, good luck, bro. Well, thanks, guys. And I just got to say, truly, y'all are a blessing. Listen to y'all all through the hospital, got my family and friends listening to y'all. So really appreciate the content and what you stand for. Right on. That's great, brother. Thank you, Cole. Yeah, thanks guys. Take it easy. When I hear someone want to be an oncologist, I'm always like, why? Like, I get it. Takes a special person. You need that. We need them. Holy crap. I can't think that's one of the most stressful. Super rough. Yeah, it's like all your patients are dying. Yeah. Like, for real. Yeah, that's tough. You take that home with you. Yeah. You know, the thing people understand is that

the appropriate amount of volume and training and intensity will give you the best results. Always. More than that won't. Less than that won't either. But more than that definitely won't. Well, it can be deceiving too when, like, for example, he'd push pull legs and maybe he gets good results on that. And it's not that that is perfect or great for you. So you could have done something even better.

And he wasn't in medical school. He's starting medical school. Yeah. There's a whole new ball game. Yeah. Yeah. Our next caller is Ellen from Indiana. Hi, Ellen.

Hello. Hi. Oh my gosh. I can't see you guys. Ah! Oh, there you are. Okay. Here we are.

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. How can we help you? All right. I'll go ahead and read my email so that way I don't stray too far from it. Hi, Mind Pump team. First, I would like to thank you for everything you do and for all of the great content you put out.

I've been a listener for five years now and I never miss an episode. My husband recommended your podcast to me. when I was struggling to get pregnant. At the time, I was working out six to seven days per week, lifting with minimal rest breaks, daily cardio, intermittent fasting, restricting calories and carbs while excessively tracking my intake, taking minimal rest, et cetera, basically everything wrong. I believe the harder I worked, the more results I would see.

I was frustrated because I wasn't seeing results, and I also was not having a menstrual cycle at the time. A fertility doctor recommended that I try to lose 5 to 10 pounds to help me ovulate. But little did he know that I was already so restrictive regarding my nutrition and had been trying to lose those same 5 to 10 pounds for years. One of the first episodes that I listened to, you spoke to a listener who was trying to get her cycle back.

You spoke with her about the importance of reducing training volume and eating more calories so that her body could feel safe again. I felt like I had nothing to lose, so I gave up my daily cardio and intermittent fasting and purchased MAPS Anabolic and focused on daily steps. taking rest breaks between sets. I also started intentionally eating more calories and carbohydrates on a daily basis. I was able to get pregnant naturally with my son, who is now three years old, and I also have a one-year-old daughter.

Wonderful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. My kids are my entire world, and I'm not sure I'd have them today without your advice. Fast forward to today. I am 32 years old, 5-10, 160 pounds. I work full time. I average 10,000 to 11,000 steps per day. I enjoy lifting weights and I've really enjoyed your MAPS 15 style workouts because I like getting up every morning and moving my body before my kids wake up and before I go to work every day. My question is what my current goal should be.

My husband encouraged me to reach out to you. Over the last few years, I have watched him completely transform his body through reverse dieting and running your MAPS programs. It's been about a month since I wrote in, so I have a few updates this next section. I'm still nursing my 16-month-old daughter, but I'm slowly trying to wean her. My cycle has recently returned, and just preparing for the call, I've been tracking over the last few weeks, so that way I could give you guys some more specific numbers. So I have been averaging 2,700 calories per day, and I've been hitting 160 grams of protein every day. I feel as though I'm eating a good amount of calories based off of what I hear

you recommend to your other listeners. However, I'm just feeling stuck. I would like to lean out my midsection, as this is where I have always carried my weight even before kids, and I would also like to gain more muscle, specifically in the glutes and legs. I realize that these are contradicting goals. Since postpartum, I have worked my way up to a 200-pound deadlift, a 145-pound squat, and 105 pound bench press. I'm currently feeling somewhat stalled, and I was a little bit stronger than this prior to having kids.

I want to be a strong, healthy, and confident mom for my kids. I want to be an example of a healthy relationship with nutrition and exercise while also feeling confident in myself. Should I continue eating 2,700 calories per day as I wean from breastfeeding, reduce my calories as I wean,

or attempt to increase calories to focus on building muscle, any program recommendations would also be appreciated. And since having my daughter, I have completed MAPS starter, MAPS 15, advanced, MAPS muscle mommy, power lift, 15 symmetry, anabolic, the female edition, and I'm currently in phase one of MAPS 15 strong. And I often split the non-MAPS 15 workouts in half and complete each day on separate days just to fit my schedule. and I apologize for the long-winded email. Thank you so much for your time and everything you do. Ellen, this is amazing. What a tremendous success.

You're killing it. You're killing it. You're doing phenomenally. And so you're at this phase now, which is a great place to be. It is a phase of growth in fitness where you initially, it's like I need to reach this finish line. I have this goal. I want to get to this place. Then you get there and you're like, well, what do I do now?

And honestly, what you do now is you enjoy. it and you will continue to progress. And I want to remind you, you just got your cycle back and you're still breastfeeding, but you're starting to wean your daughter off. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. So you're at this place now where you really just enjoy what you're doing and have fun with it, and you will continue to progress.

But again, I was going to remind you that you're weaning your daughter off breastfeeding. You just got your cycle back. And so you're going to see as the hormones start to come back, because that's what's happening, while you're breastfeeding, there's a difference in hormones than when you're not. You're going to see faster results start to happen here soon. Even though you've been kicking butt and you're crushing, it typically in my experience takes about two years postpartum for a woman who's fit to start to really feel like she used to. And that's going to happen for you.

And so really there's not much I would change. Your caloric intake is good. You're following good programming. You're strong. I mean, could you cut? You could. Could you reverse diet more? You could.

I don't think you should because as you come off a breast. So breastfeeding, you're burning extra calories every day. And so it's naturally going to put you in a natural reverse diet. Yeah. So by coming off of breastfeeding, that's going to start to become like a slight surplus of additional calories. And that should fuel right into your workouts. Yeah. And so really just I would stay the course, keep getting strong and watch what happens.

And my experience, when my female clients stopped breastfeeding about two or three months after, things seemed to turbocharge a little bit. Like, if we kept everything the same, it's like everything started to move a little faster. And so I'd say hang tight and stay consistent. I mean, your calories are good. Your strength training is good. Your steps are good. I mean, you're doing phenomenal. I wouldn't do anything until probably the first of the year, like considering to, like, cut or do something like that.

It's like, I would stay the course as you come. off of breastfeeding. Like Sal said, give it a few months of being consistent with that. Watch what happens. We should see strength increases. You should continue to feel better, stronger. You probably will kind of naturally recomp. So you'll kind of lean out and naturally. It'll be a nice slow process. You build a little muscle, lose a bit of body fat. And then come January or so, like you should be feeling back to your 100% yourself and you're in a good place, calorie-wise. If you feel like, okay, I kind of want to lean out a little bit, now you're in a place in a position to cut some calories, cut three, 500 calories a day, and then watch you just lean right

out. And that's it. Yep. Okay. So this process is taking a little bit longer than I imagined it would with her. So I feel like I haven't made much progress in the last month. Even though my strength has stalled, do you think that I should try to bump calories like a little bit since we're kind of, she's still needing that right now?

Well, let me ask you this. Do you feel like you'd be stuffing yourself if you add more calories? Do you think you could do it and be okay? Yeah, are you hungry? Yeah, I think I could do it and be okay, but I just, I've been afraid. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. In that case, yeah. If you're hungry, if you're hungry, if you have an appetite and you're hungry and you feel like

you're actually keeping yourself from anymore, eat more. You know, and it doesn't have to be much, 150, 200 calories. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I think you'll like it. I think you'll see the strength gains go up in that case. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. My other question, so I wrote this in before you guys dropped your latest program last week. Do you feel like I'd be a good candidate for that program? I know it's like a four day a week. And I know you guys recommend like the 15 style to like parents with young kids a lot of times. I like you on the 15. I like you on the, you're also working, you said too, right?

So you've got two little ones, your breastfeeding and you're working. I think 15 is a perfect program for you. We just cycle our way there. But yeah, I think the 15 is going to work. Just cycle through those 15 programs. That's going to get you the best results consistently. Okay. Thank you so much.

You got it. And man, what a wonderful success story. I really hope somebody's listening right now. That encourages you for that. The only part of your whole story that makes me just, is I cannot believe a fertility doctor told you to lose weight. That's crazy. That's crazy to me.

But thank God you went in the opposite direction. And I'm so glad you communicated that. And don't feel guilty about continuing that breastfeeding. That's liquid gold. Keep up that liquid gold. Yeah. You're going to have a strong, healthy baby. Yeah.

Thank you guys so much again. I really, really appreciate it. You got it. Thank you, Ellen. You know, let's see, I love that. You know why I like that so much? Somebody listening is going to hear that and go, oh. Maybe I should try that.

That works. Think about it. Crazy workouts, tons of calories burn, doing everything, restricting cars, restricting calories. Lose five to ten hours? When the opposite direction, way less workouts, eating more. Did you see her height and weight?

Yeah, I know. 5, 10, 160? No. That's not a lose weight place. No. She's now strong, lean. Her metabolism's on fire. And she works and she's got kids.

Everybody pay attention, you guys, it works. Our next caller is Michelle from Maryland. Hi, Michelle. How you doing, Michelle? Hello. Hello, it's so cool to see all of you. I listen to you all day every day. Well, I wouldn't say that, but a lot of the day every day.

Thank you. How you doing? I'm good, excited. I'm a little nervous, but excited. Yeah, how can we help you? Yeah, I guess I'll just read from my email. So this was like a month ago that I sent this. So I've been a listener for about, I guess, nine months now, binge listening, loving every minute of it. I laugh often and love how compassionate you all are to the overtainers and over-attievers like me.

It feels like you're talking to me, and I thank you very much. and I think listening to three very understanding, compassionate, caring men, it's kind of like, you're like fathers I can look up to, even though you're my age. Thank you. So I don't understand that. But my question is in relation to Sal and its commitment and somewhat compulsive need for supplements and training consistently. I can relate strongly with Sal and thought to ask a question to see if Sal, Adam, or Justin, know anything about OCD or working with clients that had OCD or how to support them.

So I was, I was informally diagnosed with it, but I think it's more like OCPD, which is like obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. So it's slightly different if you've done the research, but I wouldn't say I'm officially OCD, but. Yeah. Yeah. And all the letters. Sal's got the whole acronym.

Sounds got the whole alphabet. Listen, Michelle, we do the answers here, okay? We tell people what's going on. We don't do the other way. I'm not super familiar with OCD, aside from what I think a lot of people would assume OCD is. But I'm very familiar with like body dysmorphia, very familiar with insecurities and stuff like that. So what's the difference? What's characteristic of OCD?

OCD is more like unwanted thoughts and like of harming yourself or other people getting hurt, unwanted things. where OCP is more like the perfectionistic. Like you're obsessively doing things to make it like perfect or to, in completion, or like, for instance, like my morning routine. It's very like I like to do certain things at certain times or like my meal timing, that type of thing. And it's all things that help me function well in a day. But it can be on the like compulsive side.

So OCD is more like where you can't. function. It keeps you from functioning through the day. So what do they call denial OCPD? Because that's why it's so has. No, actually, no, so neither one of those, you know, would resonate with me. But I do, I do have an attachment. Now, here's the deal with exercise. I can now miss it and it doesn't really bother me like it used to. Really? Yeah. And I work out way less. I work out like three days a week now, which is very low for someone like me. So that doesn't, but I am, I definitely am neurodivergent.

I'm sure there's a connection between the two. Yeah. But it doesn't, it's like, okay, you know, so I don't have like the unwanted thoughts or wanting to hurt anybody, sometimes Adam, but that's, that's wanted. It's a wanted. It's a more of a fantasy. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know, none of those, that doesn't really resonate, but I'll read more into it

because I, you know, admittedly, I don't know. a ton. Yeah. Either one of those, yeah. I would think, do you, do you, uh, do you work with anybody? Do you have, uh, we have been working with someone lately, yes. Okay, because I, I would think that would be one of the most powerful things that you could do is to be able to get some of those thoughts out.

Also, you know, have somebody else who you kind of relinquish a lot of the direction from and you're just kind of more following their direction orders versus you're getting in your own mind and doing that. I would think that would be really useful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm listening in the 2024 year.

I'm kind of like back listening, and I heard you recently talk to a person that called in. They had like this almost exact same thing as me. Like they like to eat at a certain time. They like to walk after they're eating. They like to do this certain amount of thing. And it like makes them feel settled. And I think it's a control thing ultimately because I feel like I have a lot of stress in my life. It's kind of like rigidity.

Yeah. And if I don't work out, I feel very anxious. and I remember Sal mentioning that back in 2024 anyway. So it's cool that you're like not as attached as you used to be. So maybe I'll get to that one point. Yeah, but I will say I can identify with some of those things. And how missing workouts doesn't really bother me like it used to. But it is a powerful antidepressant.

Just movement is for me. Yes. So moving in the morning helps me. podcast that helps me feel better, especially because the workouts are also prayer time and, you know, gratitude time. So, you know, that's kind of more what it is now than what it used to be, I would say. But I'm going to look more into it. I think that's a great, yeah, I think that's a great place to look into. Yeah. I always like how Adam is very, like, chill about things when it comes to like, oh, I go on vacation, I don't work out. And I'm like, what? Like, I can never imagine that.

So. I mean, what would you, what would you say, Sal, has been the big shift for you that's allowed you to go from that? Because I think you were very much so you couldn't miss a workout, not that long ago. Yeah. And now you have been able to. And so what has been a big unlock for you to be able to do that? My faith. 100%. Yeah. 100%. My faith. Nothing. Nothing. things had an impact on it like that. I mean, it always helped me to train people. So coaching other people is a really, really, it's a really effective mirror. And I always talk to coaches about this. If you genuinely want to help people, so if you just want to train people because you like fitness is different, but if you really want to help people, like you really

care about them, you'll find yourself saying things to them that you should also say to yourself. And so that was kind of a check and balance for me for a long time. But it wasn't until you know, I found Jesus, and that made the biggest difference. I imagine there's a lot of people who have faith or believe in Christ, but that still struggle with that. Is it a prayer, a conversation that you had? Constant repentance, conversation, and turning to. And I mean, I don't want to go on a tangent, but if you look at the data on,

so self-proclaimed Christians aren't really a good data set because we're in Western society. A lot of people identify that way. So what they do is they take the data, they look at people who attend church and read the Bible three or more times a week. And so what they're trying to look for are people who really have a faith, right? Not someone who just says, I'm a Christian because, you know, we're in a Western society and that's not a big deal to say that. What they find, what the data shows is a far lower rate of addiction, far lower rates of depression, anxiety, you know, more often, more likely to volunteer. They tend to have more kids. So it helps for sure.

So I think it's a dedication. But I mean, if I sit here and tell you like, this is what I did exactly. I guess the clearest thing would be just constant turning and praying to, you know, to God. I've been sort of doing that kind of like with my therapist has kind of been, she's been pointing me that way. And I think that's like, it's a really good way to like learn letting go of control, I think. Yeah. there's a difference between I can do this, I can fix this under my own strength, which there's some value to that for sure.

But the Christian faith very much says you can't. You need a savior. That's the whole point. And then there's a supernatural component that comes from that. And I don't want to ever dismiss that because that's real. And what you're saying is the relinquishing of control can feel like giving up. to somebody? Like, what do you mean?

Have no control? I just give it up. And it's like, yeah, you trust. You're like, I've gone as far as I can. I'm not, this ain't working. So I'm just going to give this to you. And try not to do the thing where you, like, throw out the fishing line and then you wheel it back in.

You know, so it's constant giving up. It doesn't just happen once. It's constant. Yeah. Yeah. And then what you meant about, said about helping people, I've actually been, there's going to be a big change because my husband's in the military and he'll be

retiring soon. And he wants to kind of like do this big change. So it'd be like 20 years he'll be done thing and it'll be great when he is. But he wants to do this big change, which will make us move. I might have to change my job. I'm like, I really would love to get into the like personal training field. Oh, there you. Yeah, and that was like my side question though.

Like with my rigidity and perfectionistic and that type of thing would, and like especially with wellness and diet, It's my way of controlling my life is my wellness and my diet. It's kind of like, and has been known, like, kind of orthorexic like, but is going to training other people a good route to take? Yes. Like I do. Yes. Well, I got to ask you this, do you really want to help people, or is it just because

you want to be more fit? Oh, I think helping people. Yes. Yes. And absolutely. Then the answer's yes. Because that's part of what Sal is saying that was such a big thing for him is he would come on this show and he's giving this communicate he's telling other people hey take some days off hey

do this to that hearing himself going like i need to take you're going to have to take your own advice take your own advice it's really hard to hear yourself love someone else and not do that for yourself so exactly so then doing that would eventually help me do that for myself yeah it'll also make an outward will help you it come back inward yeah and it'll also make you a good coach yeah because you're going to see a lot of people like you yep and you'll be able to connect to them and relate and i tell you what you know, this is an extreme example. Okay, this isn't you, but a drug addict who's trying to become sober will connect more to somebody who used to be a drug addict than somebody who's never touched drugs before.

So someone like you, you're a well positioned to communicate to people who struggle with fitness and the ways that you do. And a lot of people do, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. It's a powerful thing. Yeah. I think it's a great idea. I love that idea.

Good. I was worried. I was like, I don't know if that would be the right. I think it'll just like make it all worse, but ultimately you're talking. It'll be good for me. It'll be great. And also, yeah. It'd be great.

And when you're ready, you let us know because I think going through our course, it would be great for you. Our course is around that. Really how to build your business and be a great coach. Exactly. That'll be the plan. And you all recommend like Nassum first and then your course. You can do them and can do it. They're very different.

Like NSM will be very focused on the exercise portion. of training and it would make you very proficient with biomechanics and things like that. Ours is much more on the business, coaching, communication with client side. So you could do them simultaneously. Our course is recognized by NESM. So you'll get continuing education units with NASM for taking our course. And if you're looking to work in a big box gym, you're going to need an NASM cert or something similar. if you plan on working for yourself, you don't need that necessarily.

Our course would be more valuable because it's more based on building your business. Let's see. And I think I'm not that good of a business person, so I definitely would need your health. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I have a twin sister. She's got four businesses. So I could always lean on her too for a little help.

She does bookkeeping, so she's going to be my bookkeeper. Yeah. You love it. We have a school group that's an ongoing community where they meet. and we have an educator who's, so it's not like you just take the course and you go away. Like you're in a community that we're all helping and supporting each other. Exciting.

I'd love to do that. It kind of gives me excitement, so I appreciate all the recommendations. Yeah. Yeah. And what's one recommendation you have? Like one thing, because I hear you all say it all the time,

go for walks after your meals. All the benefits of it. And I do that, but then I get, like, comments from people that I like my family they're like why do we always have to go on walks why are you so obsessive about it so I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because I it really helps me my mental health and obviously my physical and I need a break sometimes like that but I get all this judgment from people so how do you navigate that well um so uh sometimes don't take the walk and I'm

I would tell someone like you that. Okay. And let go of it. And then the other thing is, and you've got to be careful with this, because people like us can like thrive. We can feed off this. So this can go in the wrong direction. But being healthy oftentimes is a little bit of being a rebel.

Countercultural. And so it's a big countercultural. Now I'm careful with that because you could also wear that like a badge of honor and be like, yeah, I just do, you know, everybody's out to get me. You know, and so it can also fuel that. but it's, you know, just miss the occasional walk. I mean, I'm huge on taking walks after we,

Katrina and I are big fans of it. But I'll tell you an example of when I don't and when I do. I'm over at her family's house. There's 12, 15 men members. We're all eating and we're having dinner. I don't get up and take a walk after that. Her and I go out for a restaurant Friday night together. We absolutely go for a walk after that because she loves to do it.

I love to do it. It's something that's important to us. Anytime I'm by myself and I eat, go for a walk. coming with these guys. We eat. We go for a walk. So I think there's times to do it. And I think there's times when it's probably more important to stay with the family and converse and have good night. Now, if the whole family wanted to get up and go for a walk, we do together, awesome. But most of the time, it's not the case. They want to stay there and have drinks and eat food and do their thing.

And, you know, I'm going to sit around and enjoy the family and be there for that. And I'm not going to be kind of a weirdo and get up and leave down their neighborhood and walk around the neighborhood just so I can get my steps or walk in. I'm going to take that time off. Unless you take them with you, right? Right. Yes, I mean, unless that was something they all wanted to do, which they don't. So. We're up here in a house with five crazy kids and you need all under 10 and you need a breather.

Then you get the hell out of it. Take 10 minutes. You don't want to, yeah, beating kids is not a good. Yeah. Me and my sister, we get together. There's five kids under 11 and it's a lot. That is a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a different type. That's a different type of walk. I'm not going to, I don't want to kill somebody. Yeah, get mental clarity. Yeah, okay, so just judge the moment and see what it. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Do good, Michelle. I love to see you in the trainer program. That'd be awesome. Michelle, I love the fact. I love your question and your input. I'm really going to look into that. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. You got it. All right. You have a good one. All right. Thanks so much. Bye bye.

She's sweet. Yeah. She's sweet. I like what she was asking and I think I'm definitely going to look into. I never thought of OCD, but I'll look into it. Yeah, I mean, I do check the door lock 15 times. That's what we all think it is. That's what I think it is, right?

But I'm very, I'm very aware that I don't know much. So I'm like, oh, is there any OCD tendencies? And will knowing that help or does that one of those like more labels? I know. I've got enough labels attached to me. I don't need any more necessarily. Our next caller is Beth from Georgia. Hey, Beth.

How you doing? Hey, good to see you again. How are you guys? Good. Good. How's it going? Really good. Thank you.

Let's hear the update. Good to see you. Yeah. Yeah, good to see you. He had a great time over there. He said, thanks again for inviting me. That was really good. Oh, I'm so glad it worked out.

Yeah. It was fun. That was a good time. Yeah, so give us an update. I think Ethan and Everett might have been a little bored while I geeked out on all the sports science stuff. I mean, it was half of it was for us. That's okay. They loved it.

All right. Let's hear you update. I'll go in on my email. Yeah, let's hear this update. So a few things to report back on. I had a DEXA scan since I last spoke with you all. So between September of 25 and July of 26, my weight was identical. My body fat went from 20.5 to 17.6.

But my bone mineral density increase. So I know you challenged me on that. Oh, good, good. A little bit after the call, I think. Beth, real quick, where is your range of bone mineral density? I know it improved, but on the chart, because I'm not familiar off the top of my head with what the numbers mean, where does it rank? Because Dexat typically will tell you if it's in the middle, if it's low, if it's high. It's, it looked like it was, let's see if I can interpret this thing.

I mean, it went up slightly from. Should tell you what percentile you're in. I'm not sure I know how to read that exactly Or it'll have like a little bar graph Where it's like you're in the middle left or right Does it show that? Similar to how it shows where your body? Yes, I'm on the bar graph

I'm looking like a little I'm in the like bottom of the green zone Top of the yellow zone Oh, that's not bad. That's not bad. Not bad, but now how long have you been strength training? Oh, 30 years. Okay, so very good.

I would expect someone who's been a strength training that long to be in the green. Yeah, way, yeah, way like on the high end. Oh, okay. Yeah. But not bad. But I would expect it to be on the high end is where you want to be. Okay. So moving in the right direction.

Like keep going. Keep going backwards. No, no, exactly. That's a good sign. We're moving in the right direction. Okay. So sorry. I still can't see you guys, so I'm just going to keep rolling.

Yeah. We're here. Okay. Okay. So anyway, I was going to say, like, credit, I know my body fat percentage went down, but I wasn't trying. I wasn't eating in a deficit or anything. I kind of credited the programming just because it was, you know,

the last couple years have been my first time with really solid programming that I wasn't creating myself. Okay. So anyway, okay. So I'm in the last week of performing. 15 advance. That was what Justin recommended on my last call. I really, really liked it. It was a nice change up from my regular, you know, traditional strength training. I'm doing slightly better with resting between sets. That was also a challenge. But I'm definitely trying to like take more

notes about where I'm lifting and what I'm, you know, accomplishing during that time. My sleep quality's been better. I still eat a lot. I weigh out, eat my counterparts at work. What I'm struggling with still, I still get a lot of steps today. I still do yoga daily, trying not to make everyday power yoga, but, you know, I like it. I, you know, I like the mobility aspects and the flexibility. So my questions are programming-wise, since we're starting the regular season this week. Should I stick with like a 15-minute protocol throughout the football season? Yes.

Yes. You're super busy right now. Yes. Yeah. This would match you best. Stay in that. Keep pushing calories. Keep doing the sleep focusing on the sleep.

Keep moving in that direction. Okay. Is there a particular one you recommend? Like I bought power lift and upper lower. So I was really eager to try those. I guess maybe only power lift has a 15-19. minute versions? It does.

Yeah, Mass 15 power lift would be great. Mass 15 power lift. And then when you get in a time, like maybe after season and life slows down a bit, then maybe we can go play with up or lower. But now I would say stay in 15 during the season. I can only imagine how busy you are in season. Yeah. It's a lot with travel.

Seven day work weeks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I imagine. It's crazy. So yeah, 15 and keep pushing calories. Where are your calories at right now? I don't track calories because I don't have a great history. I track protein.

I mean, like I estimate my protein, but I eat a lot of protein. And I supplement with like cottage cheese and Greek yogurt to help hit my target. Are you, are you, are you, strike me as someone who's pretty consistent with the types of foods and meals you eat? Are you pretty regiment about what you eat? I mean, I am. We have, you know, the lovely cafeteria, which Justin visited here, which is really, nice. They do an amazing job with food. So I get to mix it up a good bit at lunch, and lunch is probably my biggest meal for that reason. So I, you know, I eat a lot of meat, you know, chicken, fish,

shrimp, beef. And last time I think you challenged me a little bit to eat fat of your cuts, which I mean, I generally will choose like a rib eye over something else. So I try to do that. So continue that. I would just, since you don't track, and then we're not going to do that, I want you to add one more meal. One more meal. Yeah. Just add another meal at another meal of the day somewhere in there. Yeah.

And here's the thing, Beth, you were in a deficit. That's why you got leaner. So I know you said you weren't trying to be in a deficit, but you were. And this is why I'm telling you more calories. And you need more body fat. Okay. So if you're walking around in the teens, you have, and you have, something bad happened.

You have a bad injury. You need a surgery. You have a lot of, you have illness. You need body fat to bolster you through that process. You're actually placing yourself in a vulnerable position with by being too lean all the time. Now, it's okay to get into that leanness and get back out of it. But I, if you,

if you want to feel more recovered, if you want to feel more vitality, if you want better health, I would want your body fat percentage like 21, 22 percent. okay yeah you need more 17 walking around at 17% for a woman uh it doesn't give you much wiggle room if you if something ever happens like you get real sick or you need that uh on your body i mean you're you're you're like really lean you're shredded essentially um and so adding like four or five percent body fat is just getting improve your health and so adding that extra meal uh will will help do that. So what it's going to feel like to you, Beth,

is going to feel like you're purposely trying to bulk. Okay. I've never really done that. Yeah. That's our goal right now. That's our goal is to do that. Is to do that right now is to add another meal and bulk. We need to push.

He'll feel strong. You'll have a lot more energy. Yeah. You'll feel really good. Stronger. Yeah, a lot of benefits from it. Okay. Okay.

Okay. A couple more questions. So if I do 15 power lift, what after that? I mean, just does it matter any kind of 15 protocol? They're all good. I like 15 muscle mommy. I like 15 symmetry for you, 15 strong. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, they're all great. As long as you hit 15 performance or symmetry once a year, it doesn't matter kind of what you pick after that. So we kind of just because that'll address the unilateral work, you know, rotation. stuff and that'll just keep us. Now, you do yoga too, which is great. So you're probably covering a lot of the basis by incorporating that too. So yeah, really pick the ones that you enjoy and rotate through those. And you think I'm good with like sometimes I combine the days.

That's kind of a typical, like it's a little easier if I do like days one and two on a 15 third call. And like that third day I'm doing like trigger sessions or something. You can do that But don't organize it that way so you can do more. Yes. Because if that's what you're doing, then don't do that. Yes, you should take a day off. If you pair a day up, you've now, because we've programmed the total volume we think you should be doing for the whole week.

So because you pair a day, doesn't mean it gives you permission to go do more. It gives you permission to take a day off, take a walk. So even though those are trigger sessions, you're like, no. No, nope. You don't need to do nothing. You don't need to do anything. You know what? I'm telling you, if you just, if you add an extra meal, keep following Mass 15, you're going to hit PRs in the gym.

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Just, if you just do that every day, you add that extra meal every day. Watch what happens to your progress. Don't change the workout. Watch what happens. Okay.

Yep. All right. Anything else I'm missing? No. No. That's it. Just the meal. That's the only thing missing is the meal.

Give it. Give yourself that meal. And everything else can. So much for the hospitality that you showed Justin. That's so phenomenal. You're welcome. If y'all want to come to a game now, I know. We're not the Niners.

I promise I'll give you a fun game day experience. A Robinson was my number one draft pick in fantasy last week. So that's my guy. That's my guy now. I'm watching every Falcon game this year. So I'm a Falcon fan this year. I love it. We appreciate it.

And listen, I did want to shout out Jackie and Katrina. They've both been awesome to work with. So they are very much brand ambassadors for you. Like you, like you, we have super women over here working for us too. So they're awesome. So appreciate you saying that. They are. Yeah.

Well, thank you guys for having me back on. I really appreciate you. Keep us updated. I like to hear how it goes, okay? Keep us updated. All right. I will. Thank you.

All right. It's great to see you. Yeah. Thanks. You too. Bye. I've had a few, you know, more than a few experiences with clients. She's jacked, dude.

Where the goal, where I had them train gain body fat. A couple of them were gained fertility. And a couple of them were just like, like, what do I do now? When you walk around too lean, let's put, that's like the goal is to gain some body fat. Yeah. And they were all blown, because we're told, we're constantly hammered how fat is bad. Your body fat's bad. But there's an amount that you need.

And all of them were just like, I didn't know that this would feel so much better. Yeah. You know? And that's one of the things that she needs to do. Yeah. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.

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