Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 303: Fasting, Keto and Healthy Eating for MS, Cancer & Health

Episode Date: June 2, 2016

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin talk about a recent study showing the value of fasting for autoimmune conditions. This episode touches not only on fasting but on the ketogenic diet, fecal transplants, IIFYM and why it is just plain smart to eat a healthy diet.

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, pop, mite, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. What is today? Today is the greatest day that ever was. That's it, and ever will be again. That's it. You know what though, Justin, I don't wanna hurt your feelings, but your voice is a little off. Damn it.

Is it the cold? Yeah. Yeah. You might have noticed it on a previous episode. That was a little horse. You know what? I don't know if, you know how like when they say that girls live in a sorority or whatever,

Adam's gonna start paying attention now because I said little magic he said girls. Where are they? Where are they? No, you know they say that their periods start to like line up. Adam's gonna start paying attention now that because I said little magic he said girls girls, girls, girls, girls, and tennis. No you know they say that their their periods start to like line up. Yes. And match. When one of us gets sick, all of us get it immediately. And it's not like we make out that much.

I'm having tummy problems now because you are. Are you really? Is that true? Totally. Are you getting my gut flora? I don't know. It's not if it's that or if it's just like, could you eat the poopoo?

I got the poopoo. This is. Yeah. That's gross. No. It's healthy poopoo. So Adam, I'm gonna catch you off guard cause you're not paying attention.

I did you do. Did you do it? Did you do it with the side of my doing work for us? No big deal. I'm doing it with a corkscrew. Sorry. I'm sorry Adam, I'm not sorry. Did you, did you guys read that link that I sent to you?

No, I was driving and you just sent it like, I didn't read anything. See, I knew you were driving here. And I just like to say that because now I get to sound like I know all kinds of shit. This, so one of our mind pump members sent this to me. Do you know how much information I get sent on a regular basis, like really cool new studies

and stuff like that on a regular basis from our- From foreign members? Well, foreign members and listeners. Oh, listeners in general. I love it. I don't have to look and search for it. I know you're super into it. So, you know, that's cool that they're providing you that.

Well, this study was just conducted by the University of Southern California or just published some of the results that found that it's an animal study, so it's not done on humans, but they did do a human study afterwards. And they found that fasting holds promise as a treatment for autoimmune diseases. In particular, they tested it for multiple sclerosis. Fasting. Yes. So the way fasting works, and by the way,

you have to fast properly. Fasting doesn't just mean you starve yourself. Right. Yeah. But if you do it right, if you do it right, you do it in a healthy way, fasting promotes the death of old cells in the body. In particular, old immune cells in the body.

And so scientists theorize, well, and they've already known this, we've known this for a long time, this is established. But they theorize, well, since autoimmune disorders are dealing with problems with immune system, I wonder, they're thinking we wonder if fasting will kill these immune cells that are acting terribly that are attacking the body. And they tested it and they found out that in fact, there seems to be a lot of promise there. In fact, I don't know if you guys are familiar with how multiple sclerosis kind of works,

but it's an autoimmune disorder that attacks the nerves of the body in particular. And I hope I'm saying right, the Myelin sheets that protect some of the nerve fibers. They found that fasting promoted the regeneration of these things, which is crazy because for a long time, we've thought that that was impossible. You couldn't regenerate it once they were destroyed, they didn't really come back. Then they also noticed increases in anti-inflammatory markers or anti-inflammatory chemicals in the blood and lower rates of inflammation. So for people with autoimmune disorders, which a lot of people don't realize this, but auto immune disorders in general are, this is going to become an epidemic in modern societies.

It's exploding, like things like Crohn's disease and multiple sclerosis, and they've been on the rise from now for the last three decades or so. Pretty interesting stuff. Just one more thing to add to the list of benefits of proper fasting. Now, on the flip side, you wanna ask yourself, well, if fasting or eating, eating infrequently, reduces inflammation and is very good

for the health of the immune system. It's good to protect, you know, nerve fibers and all these other things. Would eating too frequently do the opposite? You know what I'm saying? If doing the, and it's, it's, it's, it's just the phiable to, you know, theorize that that could be possible. There are studies that do show that eating too frequently may, this is not established by any means, but they may increase markers of inflammation. I feel like that's so vague. I feel like that's so, it is right now.

Yeah, it is right now. And what is frequent considered? What's less for, you know what I'm saying? So the studies that I've read were, they compared people eating two and three times a day to people eating like six and eight times a day. So it wasn't like eating three times a day was causing inflammation. It was the ultra frequent eating, which is so common in the muscle building fitness world. I would say yeah, in the competitive world. It's not so common for the average person, right?

Yeah, you know, the average person still eats only two to three times a day. Right, right. But to the average fitness fanatic, or if somebody comes in to, you know, hire as a trainer who super follows the fitness industry, and they say, hey, I want to lose weight, that trainer is probably going to say, well, we want you to eat three meals plus snacks in between. And oh, you know, you don't have time for that when you eat these protein bars or whatever in between. So they end up eating, you know, five meals a day.

The other question I have asked about that is, too, is, you know, what constitutes a day. The other question I have asked about that is too, is, you know, what constitutes a meal? I mean, what about the people that snack all day and graze along? I mean, if somebody is... Very good question. You know, somebody eats. Very good question.

Eight times, they put something in their mouth. Maybe it's not a full six-month meal. Yeah, there's some cultures in Europe that really have like small meals, but they eat a lot of meals like all day long, too. So it's just grazing. Yeah, they're just grazing. But that's a great question.

So that would have to be tested for them. But that's interesting. That's really interesting about the fasting though, because you think about that and you think about some of these programs that they wrap all this detox effects and all these kinds of things, the cleanse and this and that. But really in a sense, you are getting benefits of that, but it's just the fasting. It's fasting. We've said this before.

It's not the special cayenne pepper juice or whatever it is. I know I'm a bojumbo. I know I've said this in an episode before, when we talked about all that detox teas and bullshit stuff like that, the real benefits are coming from just not eating the calories. It's actually like 50 calories.

Yeah, that's the real business. So, in your drinking, you know. but people let people let the get full because that, you know, you throw some some branching amino acid in there, you put something in there with antioxidants and nutrients. Yeah, that's what's so silly. People don't understand that like, right, these teas, we haven't talked about these in a long time. This is kind of a good segue to this is, you know, these teas like that, they promote, you know, science like this comes out, right? And then it's like, oh, okay, we're finding out

all these benefits of fasting or not eating. And then somebody gets smart, goes like, oh, okay, I know how I can market a drink then, or because then now what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a drink. The fasting solution. Totally, right? I'm gonna make a drink that has some antioxidants in it,

or some amino acids, or something, and something beneficial, which we have science to support that these things are good for the body, right? And they put it in some packet liquid form and say, you know, don't eat for so many hours, drink this drink and you're going to speed up your metabolism. You're going to do this. It's interesting, just listening to you talk about that too, is that like people can't stand to be idle, right?

You know what I mean? You have to give them something. It has to be a package of something. Put this in your mouth. You can't rest. You can't meditate and sit there in silence. People always have to have something. Oh yeah, well this is part of the program.

I'm just eating right now. Ah! If you want to make money, this is your formulas. This is how of the program is I'm just, I'm just not eating right now. If you want to make, if you want to make money, this is your formula. This is how they want to make, this is how they make money. They find something that works. They catch along the trend by selling accessories or things that go along with it. So a great example of this strategy, and this is just, this is just marketing sales one on one.

You know, the California gold rush, right? There, people who found gold was very rare. It was quite rare for people who found lots of gold and became rich. The most of the people that became wealthy were the ones that sold shovels and pick assets. Is that true? That's true.

That's not true. That's not awesome. Because they service that forever at them. You're like, I want to be the guy that provides this into the factor line. I've said that you're right. I've always like, you know who I want to be? I want to be the guy who makes the lids for McDonald's.

There you go. I'm serious, like nobody knows who that is. And I'm sure McDonald's at this point probably or the sleeves for the cups. Yeah, like the simplest things that that, and I can't remember what inspired me that way. I think I saw, I think the guy who made the little umbrellas that go in Margarita's drink. Oh, he was here about how he's a million.

He's like this millionaire. And I'm like, who would it or they got to make paper clips, you know, billionaire? Like, like nobody thinks about that. Those simple things like that. Yeah, no, I think that's the way to go to. You know, who did that for fasting? Because, you know, lots of science has been coming out now for fasting and lots of support. And it was so counter common knowledge.

Of course it was going to catch on. Anytime you have something with truths behind it that also was against common knowledge, it's going to go viral. You know what I mean? Like for a long time we were told, don't eat fat, it's bad for you. Then boom, science comes out and says,

fat's not bad for you, you should eat more fat. Of course it's going to explode because A, it's true and B, it's against what people have been thinking. But you know who caught on to this fasting trend and just capitalize the shit out of themselves was Dave Asprey with his bulletproof coffee. Oh yeah. You know, hey, you know, fasting is good for you. So this is what you're going to do in the morning.

You're going to make a 300 calorie fat, you know, mix into your coffee and drink it. Which by the way, it's delicious. Nothing wrong with it. And we're all fucking brilliant. Yeah, and he already got that from like Himalayan monks, right? Or did they the first ones to do that? Oh yeah, he nothing wrong with it. And we're all fucking brilliant. Yeah, and he already got that from Himalayan monks, right? Were they the first ones to do that? Oh yeah, he didn't invent it, but he invented marketing it. Well, yeah, he did, exactly. You know, it's good at marketing.

Absolutely, push really out. So when it comes to fasting, you know, the benefit is in the fast. It's not in the what you drink or take while you're doing the fast. There's lots of different ways of fast. They're actually doing studies right now. We have a fasting guide, by the way, that breaks down the most popular and studied ways of fasting. And we kind of teach you how to do it.

You can find that at mindpumpmedia.com. But anyway, there's some studies going on along with fasting right now that demonstrate that you don't necessarily even have to fast. What they've done is they're putting people on 500 calories so they're eating very, very low calories for like two or three days in a row and then back to normal. And they're getting a lot of the benefits. Well, they see that. Yeah, and it's, there's two approaches with that too. You'll see a little bit of IIF, IEM kind of influence on some of these people's decisions

when they go like super low calorie and then any no no holds bar, you know, on these other days where they have an excess of calories and you know, that's something that we urge you, you know, not to get into that sort of a trap to where it becomes like, you know, you get that sense of that flavor and they have that addiction back. And then all of a sudden, now you're going to jump back to like, you know, really low calories. It's a sudden, now you're gonna jump back to like, you know, really low calories. It's a dangerous game that you're playing with your body. Well, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's not in healthy relations. It's unhealthy. It is. And it reminds me, here's the thing, uh, stress. Okay, let's talk about stress for a second. I trust me, it's related to it this topic. We all know, we, everybody, if you ask anybody what they think of stress, they'd say it's bad.

You ask somebody, would it, how does stress affect the body? Oh, it's horrible for your health. It'll kill you, it'll cause cancer, it'll do all these horrible things. Here's the thing, without stress, your body does not adapt. That's what promotes adaptation. It promotes adaptation.

Your body doesn't adapt for no reason. In fact, you have to consider adaptation in any direction or in particular adapting to get stronger know, to get stronger, faster, healthier, takes energy. And your body's constantly looking to conserve energy. It's always looking to exist on as little energy expenditure as possible. Fasting, just like exercise, is a stress on the body. So don't get me wrong. Like if you fast Too long or too hard core or you fast

Everyday for years you may actually start to see negative effects from fasting because you're stressing the body too much Just like exercise just like working out stresses the body, but if you do it right It's extremely healthy for you if you do a wrong exercise can become a health problem This fasting is the same thing And so what you do when you're fasting is you are applying a type of low level of stress on the body. And the body attempts to adapt by killing off cells that are older and that are not functioning at the best.

So your body's basically becoming better and more efficient. Then when you go back to eating normal, whatever your body regenerates these cells, and you get, they actually have demonstrated this in animal models where I think it was something like 72 hours and animals would basically replace their immune systems with new cells by utilizing things like fasting.

This is why fasting properly is now being heavily studied to treat and prevent cancer. The ultimate, you know, horrible immune response that our bodies will get is cancer. Cancer literally is your immune system fucking up and your body is... Well, you just, you recently mentioned that, you know, when you're in that fastened state

that the cells that die off are the weaker ones, which is also the same cells that get attacked by cancer. When a cancer is spreading to the body, it's going to attack those weeks. Well, what's interesting with cancer cells is that they operate very, very heavily off of glucose. In fact, when they're looking to find tumors and stuff in your body, they'll give you a solution. What is this for the ketogenic diet array? Which is why ketogenic diets also have demonstrated anti-cancer properties because cancer cells

don't work off of ketones. They can't. They don't have the metabolic flexibility to go from glucose to ketones unlike healthy cells, which can do this. So for whatever reason, cancer cells just don't have this, they just don't have this ability. Now, of course, this doesn't necessarily mean

if I go pure keto, like hardcore keto, that all my cancer cells will die because the cells are pretty smart and they can develop and make glucose from amino acids and even from ketones that can create their own glucose. But it's very limited. And this is why ketogenic diets will sometimes show cure rates, but most of the time what it shows is extended lifespan. It's not like a cure, but it shows extended lifespan with people with cancer, animals with cancer, and or sometimes cure rates or just shrinking of tumors, which doesn't necessarily mean you live longer, but it shows that it's definitely

affecting the cancer the way you want it. Same thing with fasting. Fasting has a very similar effect, and they're looking at, I believe the FDA is now reviewing whether or not to recommend fasting alongside chemotherapy for people with cancer. And the goal is to reduce the amount of chemo that a patient would need to take because they were fasting alongside with it. This is like a new field of direction when it comes to cancer. Because both are stressing the cells

and clearing house at the same time. So that way you might be able to reduce the chemotherapy a bit as far as the main stressor of it. Yeah, ideally you'd want to replace chemo. You wouldn't want any chemo. But in some cases chemotherapy can be effective. And it would be nice to cut, I mean, imagine if you could do that, you could take somebody and say, OK, instead of giving you this much chemo,

we're going to cut your chemo on half, and then we're going to have you be on a fasting ketogenic type diet. And they get better effects than if they took twice as much chemo, plus, of course, way less side effects and all that other stuff. So to me, it's so fascinating because for so long, I was not going without food for longer than three or four hours. Which was just, I was so brainwashed. Yeah, for me, it just keeps like proving how like the body is so,

like, it's so complex and it has so many systems in place that self-regulate, you know? And like I think that, you know, we know a lot, you know, we've definitely studied for a lot, but sometimes, you know, just the basic, the most basic of things have like the most benefit. Like this is something that's so basic, but like you see already,

like how that really helps, you know, on a cellular level, like really to clear things out into, you know, get rid of these like potential harmful cells that, you know, maybe weaker or more susceptible to cancer cells. Well, I think I also think this is why, why we did write this guide is because, and it's the same thing with our maps programs is, you know, a lot of things we talk about

isn't like revolutionary. It's not like it's this brand new science. Fast things been around for thousands of years. Yeah, part of religions. Yeah. So yeah. But and I think that's what a lot of what we we talk about though is getting people back to the things that really matter, the things that make a big difference. Does that mean that we don't believe that there's benefits to one of those cleansing teas? Of course there is. That's how they can sell it, make millions of dollars off of it because they can take the little bit of science around them and they can promote it and they can extract things

out and make studies look like, oh my God, it's a big deal, but in reality, the real bulk of the benefits are coming from the fast of not consuming that many calories. And the same thing goes for workout programs. We talk about workout programs where people do all these crazy things. They put a spin on this new way of training or, you know, they put bands on machines. They do these crazy things and stuff like that to make it look like, oh, this is, this is where it's coming from. Now you need to do this because this is the best way to do it.

Well, well, no, let's talk about the exercise that you were doing right before that. Like that big fucking compound lift that that's probably what's really changing your body more than anything else. So getting people to understand that I feel like fitness has just gotten as it as our into spin accessorized to to death. It's hell. Yeah, to death. It's it reminds me like like I give the analogy of teaching somebody

like a sport like basketball, right? And it's your first day coming in to learn to play basketball, and I'm gonna teach you, because I can play a little bit of ball. And you kinda mean you're like, dude, I saw Steph and Curry last night do this behind the back through his legs, 360 pass,

and it's your first day on the core, and you're out there just trying this move over and over and over and we haven't learned how to dribble the ball. We haven't learned like the fundamentals of anything and you're like it doesn't matter. I want to learn that. I want to know how to do that so bad. And it's the same thing on it on TV. Yeah. And the same thing about working on a nutrition is everybody sees, well, that looks so cool when he puts rubber bands on that machine. I want to learn to do that. I owe you know, what's that for? And they want to learn all about that. It's like go squand and like, yeah, like, dude, when's the last time you squatted? When was the last time you deadlift it? Or when was that time you did a compound

movement? Like for yourself? Like, start with that. Oh, you want to learn this old fit this new detox tea, cleansing, like that. When was the last time you actually tracked your food and paid attention with the fuck you ate? Like start with that, start with the fundamentals of understanding what you're consuming and how you're eating. You know, or if you want to see these great benefits from what this thing's promoting, just don't fucking eat. Yeah. You know, start with that. Yeah.

So that is so hard for people to digest, you know, because of like, just the way that we're so pounded and marketed all the time that like, you know, you have to do this way, you have to do this way, you have to do this way, and we're like, yeah, but like, what? Like we're trying to tell you that it's this one thing,

and that's just so hard for people to just like stop and realize it like, look, if I just get better at this thing, and I take it incrementally, step by step day by by day and I just focus on the few things that matter It's just like it's just like when you think about Remembering more than two or three things at one time, you know how How inefficient are you at trying to remember more than two things? You know a very inefficient. Yeah

than two things. Right. You know, a very inefficient. Yes. I know what I'm saying. You know, it's, it was tripping me out about all this, like, you know, we talk about fasting and how effective it is. You realize that the ancient Greeks advocated this as part of improving your health. This is probably why fasting is part of ancient religions.

It's been a part of, you know, humanity forever. Of course, we didn't choose the fast, I'm sure. Oh, I think it's, I think it goes to the mental clarity and spiritual side. Well, that's what, there's science now to show what's going on there. Well, look, for those of us who've utilized fasting properly, you do get that.

You do feel mental clarity, you do feel energy. Yeah. But hypocrite is, for example, a quote he said about, you know, fasting, he said, our food should be our medicine. Our medicine should be our food. But to eat when you are sick is to feed your sickness. Very interesting. Other ancient Greek philosophers would say things like, instead of using medicine, fast

for a day. It's just, it's crazy to me because all this ancient knowledge from observation now is starting to come back. And it wasn't necessarily that it fell out of favor. It was that our information was fed to us by people who benefited from us eating regular meals and you have to in breakfast. Here's your breakfast foods. Here's your lunch foods.

Here's your dinner type of foods. Here's another one. There was this book that my daughter got from the library and it was all about poop. Of course you got it because it was hilarious. And she is my daughter got from the library and it was all about poop. Of course you got it because it was hilarious and she is my daughter. But in there it's facts about poop. Okay and let me tell you why this is related to what we're talking about. It was talking about how ancient physicians, as far back as Egyptian times even, would recommend sometimes that people eat poop or use poop as medicine. Now that sounds disgusting. And we also know that poop is very dangerous,

and I'm not advocating you touch poop and do anything with it. What kind of videos are you watching? Oh, dude. 599 a month. But here's the interesting. We now have studies where they're doing fecal transplants on people with certain types of autoimmune disorders, and they're very successful.

And you better believe that this is revealing some amazing science to us. And in the future, we are gonna be able to treat people's health problems by getting the bacteria from healthy people. And this old time, dude, we've been in these labs, formulating all these crazy things. What all I had to do was eat my healthy friends.

Hey bro, hold on, don't get rid of that. Yeah, okay. A little slice. Hey, I just went to the bathroom and the toilet doesn't flush. I don't know, don't worry about that. You put it in a pill. Absolutely. Just leave it in there. Don't worry. I'll take it right in your diary. Goes right into your free market concept too. You know I'm saying like you're you're just sort of whole business off of that. Like if you're a healthy person and you could

promote your take pictures. Take pictures of your poop. It's a pudding pill. This is a four on the Bristol scale. Adam's powder poo. Oh my god. But it's chocolate. It really, it really trips me out how this information, some of this ancient information now is coming back around and we're finding that, oh, it looks like sometimes they really knew

what they were talking about. Yeah. To me, it's crazy stuff. And it really goes back to evolution. Really, if you're getting advice in regards to your health that is so far away from how humans probably lived and moved through most of our evolution. It's probably not going to be that good for you, you know what I'm saying?

Like if someone's telling you, you know, you know, 10 times a day with tons of protein, like you got to imagine yourself like, well, how long have humans had refrigerators? How long have we had abundance? Yeah, how long have we had abundance of just like sugar? How about that? Well, I was listening to somebody talk about this and they were talking about diet. Used to just mean that like they were trying to find foods,

you know, to be able to fulfill the requirements. And now diet means, you know, like trying to eliminate this excess. Like I have so many options that it's just like you you get bombarded and I have to know how to navigate through it now as opposed to like, you know, I was trying to, trying to find it out. Yeah, I'm trying to find this, making me feel better and healthier. You know, now it's just like,

we just have so much shit that, you know, people just, they're like, ooh, this one tastes the best. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. That's all we care about. Oh, yeah, you have your, you have any flavor you want accessible to you within, you know, this one tastes the best. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. That's all we care about. Oh, yeah, you have any flavor you want accessible to you within 15 to 20 minutes. Well, it's been a long time since we talked about,

God, it was one of our first episodes, we talked about the blue zone, right? The blue zones. Oh, the blue zones in the world. I remember you discussed, that was the first time I'd ever even heard of them. Yeah, these are areas of the world. Sardinia is one of them.

Okinawa is another one. The seventh day Adventist in Loma Linda, California, it's a religion, but part of the religion is very, very focused on nutrition and activity. They are considered a blue zone. These are areas of the world where people live, a disproportionate amount of them compared to the rest of the world live past the age of 100. These areas, by the way, it's super rare for people to make it to the age of 100. So like these areas, like, it's, by the way, it's super rare for people to make it to the age of 100. Like, most of us don't realize just how rare it is.

I don't know what the statistics are, but the vast majority of people in the world don't make it to 100, even if you count people who make it past the age of 70. But in blue zones, it's like double triple quadruple whatever that normal number. And so scientists went to all these areas that they deemed blue zones,

and they tried to find commonalities. Like, okay, there has to be certain things that these people are doing that's making them live so long. And what they found, carbon copy it so that way everybody could benefit because obviously they're doing something right. Right, and it's, those are the best types of studies because it's hard to study humans

unless you lock them up in a lab and then measure their food and do all this, like, how can you do that long term? Like these are areas where people have been living for generations. It's not a 12 week study, you know what I mean? Yeah. And the end result is you live longer. It's not like, oh, we notice these blood markers change.

Like what does that mean necessarily, you know, long term? And so what they found, a couple of things. First of all, it wasn't genetics. And I want to say that. I know I've said that before, but I want to be clear. Like if someone from Sardinia moves to America within one generation, they have the same lifespan as the as Americans. So it's not their genes. I like to have special genetics that causes them to live these super long lives. So that was eliminated right away. And number two, they did not find these like silver bullet, you know, secret, you know, fountains of youth.

It wasn't like because each of them were kind of different, right? Some of them was activity level. Some of them was like, I heard it was the SIE berry. Yeah. Well, what they, what is some, some of them ate, for example, a lot of fish, others, ape, soy, some were vegetarians like the Seventh-day Adventists, others ate cheeses from goats. They found that the foods weren't, there wasn't any special foods. They did find that all of them consumed low calories.

So that was a fact, like most of them didn't eat that much. Number two, they all consumed at least one staple food that was very high in antioxidants. So it was like the type of green tea that the Okinawan's drink, very high in antioxidants, or the type of red wine that Sardinians would drink that has high levels of antioxidants. By the way, not antioxidant supplements.

I wanna be clear, there is a big difference. So, and they found that in all of these people, they were also active every single day. None of them went crazy with activity, but they were just daily active. And they had tight social networks. It was the community. They had tight community.

So, very active. But the key finding is that the things that they found are we've kind of known for a while I eat a diet that is natural with whole natural foods. Don't overeat be active daily You know, you have a good group of people around you don't surround yourself with assholes And it was what was locally available to right for the most part with seasonal Yeah, a lot of the diets were seasonal, meaning that the diets were not exactly the same every single day. It was like they would go up and this was growing right now.

So this is what I'm eating right now or, you know, these are the kind of fish I'm catching right now. So that's what I'm eating right now. Well, it's playing the difference of somebody, like you just said, about getting antioxidants from, you know, the wine or from the fruits or the things that versus somebody taking buying over the counter. Well, the dose of antioxidants. Why can't I just buy that and then live 100 years?

Well, the dose of antioxidants in, say, the special type of red wine are going to be one, 10th or one 100th of the level of antioxidant you'll get in a pill. So if someone sells you an antioxidant pill and says, you know, this supplement's going to provide you with the antioxidant's found in red wine. Chances are one pill is equivalent to like 15 bottles of of this red wine or or five bottles of this red wine because we always think more is because we think more is better. Yeah, we think oh, this is good for you. Therefore way more is better for you.

That's number one. Number two, there's a lot of things in these natural foods that could be having effects on your body. And keep in mind, they're all coming at your body together. Like it's not- They're all paired well together and have structure, like fibers and everything else to sort of help you assimilate it better. Yeah, not only assimilate it better,

but they could be working in a way, they call it the entourage effect where the sum of their parts is more than, their parts is more than they add up to. They add up to. Not only the synergistic, but one may affect this particular type of function in your body, therefore allowing this other thing that's naturally in there to affect something else in a particular way. It's very different until we have specific science.

And we know all these different things and how the body reacts and how the gut floor reacts and all these different variables react, which by the way, we're not, we're nowhere near close to knowing all that stuff, then buying a pill that's mimicking that is not the same. So if a study comes out that says, hey, we found that people who drank this green tea every day had lower rates of ovarian cancer, that doesn't mean that

buying a pill with green tea, any oxidants in it are going to be the same. But it sure is how they market it though. Of course, of course, they're going to market it that way. But it's not the same. But at the end of the day, basically, when you're looking at these blue zones, I know you brought this up a while ago, and we went off on a tangent, but it just highlights how there are some general rules, but how individual people are when it comes to their health, and we need to understand that,

which is why mind pump has not, and probably, and definitely never will, put out a specific meal plan. We just won't. We're not going to tell you exactly what to eat. We're going to guide you on how to do that, which is interesting because sometimes people will buy our it's always funny when we get feedback like that. I don't understand why it's because where's the meal plan in here? Where is it? It tells me what I'm supposed to look. This goes back to the whole talk about things looking too simple, even though, you know, going through them and applying them is very, takes a lot of effort and discipline, but it looks so basic.

It looks so simple, but like, you know, if you don't concentrate on that and you don't apply it into your everyday activity, like you're not gonna get the benefit from it. And it's just a different mentality. Somebody that wants like a fix. Somebody wants a pill or somebody wants, something in an easily digestible form. So they can look at it. They don't have to think.

They want to be a passenger, right? Like we're trying to get away from having you guys think of yourselves as a passenger in this, right? You got to drive the fucking wheel, you know? And we're providing you the tools to grab the wheel. But what you're telling us with that kind of communication is that you're not ready to drive the wheel. Well, I mean, I think that not only sometimes they're not ready,

I just think that we're conditioned. Well, yeah, you're not where we're just not aware work condition to you know think that there's Something as something that's gonna be very specific that I can just Follow and do look even our workout programs which we lay out specific programming telling you which exercises how many reps tempo all the stuff Even those we recommend modifications according to how your body moves. I don't know very many programs or fitness people that tell people,

like the first time you do it, do it the way we tell you. After that, we recommend that you modify and start to listen to your body. In regards to fitness and health, if at the end of the day you get to the point where you truly understand your body, what makes your body feel good, what is working well for your body on all levels, and what you're able to stick to, these are all factors you need to consider. Just because a diet works excellent for you doesn't mean it's the

best diet. I mean, you could fucking hate it. You know, you can hate the foods in it. That means it doesn't work for you. But you consider all these things, and you really learn your body rather than just doing, exactly what someone tells you. You have now long-term success. You have real transformation that will last you the rest of your life, and you will not encounter

those huge pitfalls where you go from feeling fit and healthy to holy shit. I can't believe that I looked like that two years ago. Now look at me and I'm 30, 40 pounds overweight and I've got all these horrible health issues. Well, I just wanna keep bringing it up because I feel like we're so marketed to the fact that you're incompetent. You're incompetent.

They just keep hammering that into everybody's brains. Like, no, you know, like you're very capable of doing this. You know, like it is completely your decision. It's just going to take a little bit of time. But you know what, though, how many, and I think this is the thing that we, the bone that we always have to pick with all these PhDs and stuff is, the bone that we always have to pick with all these PhDs and stuff is they intentionally use all these crazy words to over complicate things that are not that complicated. Yes. So it to scare you into like just, I got to just buy. I gotta do whatever he tells me.

I gotta do what I tell because I can barely even understand what he's talking about. And it sounds scary and it sounds important. And that drives me crazy when I get that. And it drives me more crazy too when I get into debates with people. And because somebody is, because somebody is gifted with the silver tongue and can talk all about, regurgitate all these crazy studies and make something sounds super over complicated and intimidate somebody that, you know, you don't know what you're talking about. This is what's really going on.

It's like, no, motherfucker, it's not that crazy. Yeah, or they just like hammer you with all these other, you know, gurus in the industry that they're taking all these, you know, things from this person and this person and this person. I'm like, oh, I don't know those guys. Well, you got to consider this. Consider this. People confuse simple with easy.

It's not the same. Nobody here is telling you it'll be easy. It is going to be a challenge, it is a journey, but that doesn't mean it's complicated. It's just, it's simple. Very good point. It's simple, but it's hard. It's not simple and easy.

It is not fucking easy. If it was easy, everybody would be, it would be no problem. Yeah, that's why support is awesome. That's why, but what makes it hard isn't because you necessarily don't know exactly, you know, okay, I know I need to eat less calories in a burn. Okay, I know I can pull up good macros online for free.

That's all simple information, but what makes it hard is applying it, learning my body, understanding to read the signs, and understanding how to do it in a way that not that I'm going to get let's say I want to lose weight. I'm going to lose weight, but at the end of it my metabolism is faster, not slower, that I'm able to maintain it with a lifestyle that I can maintain. I'm not in the gym four times a day or twice a day or six days a week and going nuts. You know, I got two kids. I got a family like how am I going to how can I possibly maintain this? You know, at the end of it, you you wanna be able to maintain what you're doing. You wanna be able to have a faster metabolism,

wanna have better health. And there is a simple road there, but it is hard. And part of it includes having, maybe having someone guide you who knows what they're doing. Having a little bit of structure, but then listening and learning to your body. You know, I have a client that I'm working with right now, and I ask lots of questions when I work with clients.

Usually when a trainer works with someone, the questions they'll ask are, have you lost weight or have you gained weight, and maybe are you stronger in the gym? But I ask questions like, how's your skin? I guess. How do you feel? How do you feel? How's your emotions? Do you find yourself being you feel? How do you feel? How's your energy? How's your emotions? Do you find yourself being irritable?

How's your sleep? How's your sex drive? How's your bowel movements? Like, these are all questions that are, these are all signals that tell you that things are happening in the body. But skin, skin is one of them. So I had a client I was working with and we looked like we were doing everything right, but she just had chronic skin issues and she's in her 20s, you know, by this time,

she probably shouldn't have skin problems. So we identified food intolerances, we removed them. I had her increased certain types of fats, because I thought maybe she might have been deficient in certain fatty acids. And within two cycles or two of her periods, her skin is dramatically better. And we did it through diet, but this is part of the process of learning what works best

for you because had she only paid attention to the scale and to leanness and to just strengthen the gym, she could continue to eat foods and do things that were not ideal for her overall health. At the end of it, not only does she have better skin, but she's got something that works with her body, which is far more likely to be long term. Well, this is also what makes, you know, use a trainer and then tread that's trained thousands of clients so much better than somebody who's just given out information that's, you know, got themself into shape because we know how important that is to express that

to somebody because the scale is very, very dangerous to pay attention to because it's that's got themself into shape, because we know how important that is to express that to somebody, because the scale is very, very dangerous to pay attention to, because it's so easily manipulated. I mean, so easily can you see three to five pounds up or down, and not always is, even though it may be going the direction you wanted to go, is that necessarily an indicator of you doing the right thing?

Right. So, in fact, a lot of times it can be completely off. And so this is the same way that I coach, I literally was just sitting in a text, which is like 20 minutes ago, right before we started this, to somebody about that of asking those exact same questions, well, how do you feel? What do you notice? How's your energy levels? How's your strength going? You know, what do you, what would you talk to me about that when that, I want to hear

more about that than, you know, oh, your're, oh, you're, you're weights up five pounds or your, your weights down two or three pounds. Like that's not really a victory to me. If I don't, if you're not giving me feedback on how you feel and what's going on inside, because that right there, if you learn to focus more on that as, as victories and winning versus you trying to watch this number go up or down, you'll go insane. And you'll, and we know that from being trainers for such a long time and training so many clients. Same thing. Yeah. Same thing with warm up. Same thing with joint, you know, ass, I'm about pain and about like, you know, stiffness and tightness and, you know,

different things that their body is telling them, you know, going into the workout. So that way we address those things and we, you and we make sure we have a proper warm-up and we get everything accomplished before we get into more stress and more load onto the joint. And so if we don't like pay attention to these things, the body signals and what it's telling me about my shoulder and my limitations are here today. Maybe we can work on trying to increase that instead of me just hammering it and getting through it anyway. This is one of the reasons why I am particular,

but I know you guys do too, but me in particular, I've done several posts on this on my Instagram. And so against the, if it fits your macro's movement because it takes everything, it makes it so black and white and I'm afraid with what the fitness industry does. I understand that calories and macros are extremely important, probably the most important factor

when it comes to nutrition. In other words, if you're eating all these healthy foods, but you're eating twice as many calories as you're burning, or all your eating or carbohydrates, or all your you're burning, or all your eating or carbohydrates, or all your eating or fats, or all your eating or proteins, you're not gonna be healthy even though it's all healthy food. So that's a very important thing. So that's not what I disagree with

if it fits your macros aspect on it. What I disagree is that they disregard all this other shit. It's like that's what becomes important. They don't talk about all these other signals that the body gives from the foods that you're eating. Like, you can eat the right macros, but you could still be eating foods that are not really working well for your body. And if I hate to tell you this,

but, and look, again, I'm gonna be very, very clear. I personally will eat a donut sometimes, or a pop tart, or I'll have pizza or whatever, sometimes, you know, life is as about enjoying yourself as well. There's risk versus reward. But when I'm, would I include that as, as part, when I come up with the justification for and say, oh, yes, this fits your macros. So today, so it's all good. It's totally healthy, just like anything else. No, no, else. No, I wouldn't do that. It just disregards everything else

that I understand about human health. I, here's the thing, in the defensive, if it fits your macros, personally, I think it's one of the best diets that has came out in the last 20 years of helping people learn about nutrition. Well, it's not hard to be the top of the chip pile. Now, that being exact. That's true. No, it's not hard to be the top of the shit pile. Now, that being exact.

That's true. No, it is. It is very true. And I think it's, I think it is. And I think it's helped a lot of people. Now what I cannot stand and what I, where it's gone wrong is, and in this, and I'm calling you out right now, if you're somebody who's listening and you're, you're, you do this, is if you're an IIFM follower and it's showing you great success. Stop fucking posting all your shit food.

You're not helping others. You're not helping the super obese out there that's trying to change their life by showing them, look, you can still have this shit food and and get lean like me or look like this because that's what you're indirectly saying whether you think it or not, when you do every other post is a food post of you eating out crappy food. And it's turned into like this bragging, right? Like all these people, I wonder why that is. It's so true. It is. It's turned into this thing. It's like, you know, check this out. You can, this is why this program superior, because if you follow it, you can still eat donuts, you can still do over emphasize the fact that it's a selling point. It's a selling point, right? I mean, if you're this obese person and you're thinking about getting in shape, I'm following this girl who's all skinny

and she's still gets a donut. I want to learn how to do that because I still have a food issue. They're still they still have a bad relationship with food. And then going to I FYM is not solving that. All it's learning them how to do, it's a simple way to count. It's not like teaching you a better relationship with food. Now instead- But does that really feed into discipline? You know what I mean? You have to have control and you have to have discipline in order to make those macro numbers work well.

Like I would be curious to see the numbers of that as well as somebody that's overweight. This is one- That's the good thing about it. Yes, this is the good thing about it because, you know, and I'm sure like a Lane Norton would defend it and say, you know, it's not, you know, it wasn't intended for people to be eating donuts all day long. There's that and, you know, the ideas that teach people that, you know, they have some sanity and have flexibility in there.

And, you know, I think he's a good example. You see him every once in a while, he posts a picture with his daughter getting an ice cream or something like that, but then the rest of his, his post are normal and it's weightlifting and it's, and it's cured around that. But a lot of these other knuckleheads that follow, follow this, they, they get into the, it turns into this what you, which competitive, yeah, it turns into a competitive thing of look at all the shit food I can eat and still have abs. Like, right. You know, I guess what? I, I had gelato or yeah, I had this or I had food like that too, but you don't see me promoting that.

You don't see me promoting that to other people that look at me, I can eat this still and still be in good shape. Like, no, that's so terrible. Yeah, I mean, I don't have a problem with occasional promotions because it shows, you know, shows that where, you know, people are human and it's okay.

But I completely get where you're going with the... Yeah, I'm not talking about just like every, because there's a lot of those. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about a person who posts every once and while they're out with a friend eating out, like that's not, there's a lot of pages, especially those. That's all the food, yeah.

If you're one of these people who, in your bio, you put IIFYM, okay, first of all, you sound like somebody who's part of a cult just by doing that. And then on top of that, half of your post are food posts and half of those food posts are not healthy post. They're shit. The Reese's ice cream sandwich, you know, fried. Exactly, they're extreme. They're not the most delicious.

I know, I'm hungry. No, they're extreme. It's like the craziest foods that you could think of. And their attitude is, oh, I don't care, I'm a hunter. No, they're extreme. They're extreme. They're it's like the craziest foods that you could think of. And their attitude is, oh, I don't care. I'm a foodie. Like, no, you have still actually a bad relationship with food, just like the person who's 200 pounds overweight. You've just learned how to fit it in your fucking macros. Doesn't make you that much better of a person or make you that much healthier than you think. Well, it's it. I also think of the flip side. I think of somebody who's discouraged with fitness, can't lose weight, wanting to get in shape.

God, this is horrible. And they see that, right? And then they see that and they're like, fuck you, skinny, so-and-so, who gets the eat the shitty food. I can't do that. And they just don't, and now they're just like, it's my jeans.

That's it, it's 100% my jeans. Look at this guy over here, he's so ripped, or look at this girl, she's so skinny, and she gets to eat all this crap food. Look at her Instagram, and here I am, if I eat anything more than two corn chips, I gain five pounds. This is obviously my jeans, it's not for me.

I give up. That's the other side of that coin that I can see that. I think it's the extra metal. I wonder how much longer until we see the backlash on IFIM. I wonder what it's coming. It's a matter of time with the audience. I don't think it's longer until we see the backlash on IFYM. I wonder what it's coming. You know, it's a matter of time with the audience. I don't think it's as popular as you think. Like if you ask somebody that's just a general person,

that's not a fitness person, I don't think they've ever heard of it. Oh really? And I don't think so. I don't think it's totally like body builder, you know, it's not really popular, dude. Not yet, it's big on social media, but I think Adam, the points you brought up in terms of like

what the good things that they brought to the industry, like they're teaching people like to Macro's, like that's a new, that's, it's totally the CrossFit of food. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, McDonald's is doing that now. It's totally the CrossFit of food. It's got some great staple things. That's the argument.

You saw that, right? The argument that McDonald's is doing this campaign that was coming out where they were going through the menu item and they're putting the blame back on the user, the person coming in, that's ordering and they're like, well, technically we just have, it's like a cafeteria you come in, you order food, but you have to order with intelligence. You have to be able to order within an accordance of your calorie amount and then like you know balance it with these because we provide all the nutrients You know, so that's like their argument is that people just like are oblivious and they just well I and I I'm okay like when it comes to stuff like that because here's the thing to like I've had McDonald's

And so long I know but you know what I'm not I never liked it. I believe in just like Sal, very sort of free market, and if a company wants to grow business with that, you know? I think it's a smart angle. Yeah, it's our responsibility to know what's going on. Totally is. Even when we talk about the fitness industry, here's what I don't agree with. I do not agree with a lot of these studies that show

with supplements. It says it has 500 milligrams or whatever and tests showed that it has 100 milligrams or none. That's fraud. That's completely different. But if we take that out of the equation and everything's accurate, I don't like what they do. I don't like the information they put out, but I don't want laws against them. I want to educate the market so the market starts voting with their dollars and stops giving them money. So I would, I'm not pissed off at McDonald's. Why would I be mad at McDonald's?

People are buying that shit. If you don't like McDonald's, then don't give McDonald's money. Well, you're not eating ice cream or eating, you know, it's a treat, you know, like if you look at it from that way and it's not like it's a everyday occurrence, it's gonna fill your body with all these awesome nutrients.

And so like, you gotta do your research, you know, the crazy will come back and tell you that we have, but they put, you know, they do all this stuff where they do studies to figure out what foods pair with what's making a dicting. Yeah, exactly. I feel the same way. It's just like cigarettes. It's like, you put it in your goddamn mouth, you know? So I mean, nicotine's a dicting this and that, but like, you know, why is everybody

going to be hating on cigarette? I mean, it's just they're this and that, but like, you know, why is everybody up here hating on cigarette? I mean, it's just they're they're fighting by all the laws. Here's the truth. Okay, here's the truth when it comes to nutrition in America. The food industry, it does influence some of our eating habits, but if you want to, if you want to place blame on anyone for the obesity epidemic, place blame on the bullshit government recommendations that we need to reduce our fat intake. And it's all about low fat.

And these ingredients are totally fine. And oh, by the way, we're going to subsidize corn. So now high-froaked to his corn syrup isn't fucking everything. If you want to place the blame on anybody, place the blame on them. But if you want to blame a company, American and all American company like McDonald's which look I don't eat McDonald's it's not my it's not my favorite food but I'll tell you what they brought a lot to to this country they brought a lot to how things are done lots of there is a lot they're very smart very very intelligent and I promise you McDonald's is a very

smart company you start changing your eating habits, McDonald's ain't gonna go away, they'll just change their food. They already do it, you can get a kids meal. You guys see commercials now, you can get a kids meal, and instead of fries, you get like sliced apples. So trust me, you start changing your eating habits, mark my words, if, or, for example, if organic becomes a big enough thing, McDonald's will go organic.

They won't go all in yet. They will go organic. They They will go or get. They don't have to. They're margins are just fine. They're margins are just fine right now. Yeah, so. Listen, if you like Mind Pump, leave us a five star rating review on iTunes.

And if we like it, you'll get a free Mind Pump T-shirt. You can also check us out on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. We'll check us. Or you can find me at Mind Pump Sal, Justin at Mind Pump Justin, Adam at Mind Pump Adam. And don't forget to go to Mind Pump Media. Oh, just us. Or you can find me at Mind Pump Sal, just in at Mind Pump, Justin, Adam at Mind Pump, Adam. And don't forget to go to MindPumpMedia.com. We have that fasting guide on there

that we were talking about in the episode. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPSANABOLIC, MAPSTERFORMENTS and MAPSISTEDIC. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically

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