Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 313: The Pros & Cons Of Anabolic Steroids

Episode Date: June 20, 2016

Tennis star Maria Sharapova has been suspended for two years for using a banned performance enhancing drug. This has prompted Sal, Adam & Justin to revisit the pros and cons of steroid use. Get the Mind Pump Butt Builder Bundle at www.mindpumpmedia.com Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week the best reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Learn more about Mind Pump at www.mindpumpmedia.com.

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. I would say my gut floor is pretty damn good. Yeah, you know, I haven't been sick for years. You do, you probably have really good gut. That's what we should. We should have a supplement line. Dugs, shits.

I almost, I've found you's from Doug's ass. I almost, I almost, yeah, see, you, you, see, I always eat Doug's shit. I might actually eat that. Yeah. Fuck, if I could get that guy. I do, I do. I'm like, there's anyone shit I'm gonna eat.

I'm gonna eat his shit. I mean, Doug's shit. It's got the best gut. You're, you're tummy's all fucked up. I don't want none of your shit. We'll, we'll get some weird like strain in there. That's like, and then Justin's probably next. I think Doug and then me, even though I get sick though.

No, because okay, so, like those kind of dumps that stick. Yeah, you see what you're doing there. You get sick often. I have gut issues, we all know this. You have tummy issues. Yeah, Justin causes the car chase, Skid marks down the toilet every time.

But Doug doesn't even smell, I don't think. No, not at all. Not at all. No, it doesn't even smell. That's a healthy, that's a healthy gut butt. Yeah, exactly. So Adam wants to eat it. Here's what we should do.

Let's set up an episode where Adam eats your poop and then we'll look at his health and how it responds to it. I think it sounds fantastic. It sounds like a real shitty idea if you ask me. Just to be fair, we'll only do it if the fans want it. Let's just do it. Everybody hashtag.

Adam eat Doug's poop. We probably get the best response ever. He's so mad. Yeah, it goes viral. Okay, here's poop. We probably get the best response ever. He's so mad. Yeah, it goes viral. Okay, here's the thing. It does, she goes viral, bro. You have to do it. Yeah, you'll have to.

Of course, you remember when they... To put it in capsule form, you remember when they did that too? No, you got to do the two mirrors in a cup. You remember that? That was like one of the biggest YouTube viral videos ever, right? Those were we know, healthy that was. Did you guys watch that? No, I could never watch it.

I watched part of it. What do you mean you couldn't watch it? I turned it on and then before it happened, I was like, I can't watch this. Dude, I blame Tosh.no, did that show. Everybody was watching it and I was like, what is all this hype about? And I watched it and I literally threw up in my mouth.

Well, I want to know, what do they do to the girls to make them want wanna do that? Like, we're gonna give you, they did it for drugs. That's what it was. It had to be something like that. It had to be something like crazy. Like, hey, meth head. Would you like more meth?

Listen, this is what you gotta do. This is what we're gonna do now on the video. You're gonna poop on each other. You gotta eat it. And it was like this. How much weird consistency. You never saw, you're gonna go into detail. You never saw it, Doug other. You can eat it. And it was like this much weird consistency. You never saw it going to detail. You never saw it, Doug?

No, I did not. Oh, do you know where Tom was in Doug? No. Oh, shit, I thought you did. It was a horrible discussion. You should get on your phone right now and YouTube too, girls in a cup. No, no, it's not on YouTube.

It's not anymore? No, it was never on YouTube. What's the kind of ice cream called that you get at McDonald's? Ooh, soft surf. It was like soft surf. YouTube never had never, maybe in the like first year of their existence,

but YouTube never posts for the longest time now. Any kind of nudity or as a matter of fact, if I post a video that's kind of somewhat sexier violent, it'll get tagged and then you have to be 18 or older. But even the 18 or older video category, they won't have porn, they won't show, they're definitely not gonna show two girls one cup. That was on, this is not one of these things I do want to argue with you

because I know you've scoured the fucking, all the channels for this stuff. I know what's on YouTube, bro. Yeah, I know you've got to, we got under the list, so since we watched it, we're on a list. I'll send you the website where you Okay, so I know what I know I saw it like it's it's on some it was on some site

It was on the site. It was on some site. Yeah, and it was like you researched it and then you click oh You know why so check this this is what's going on Adam you can watch videos on internet that don't have to be on you Yes, this is true. Yeah, did you know that that? Like on a website, you can watch it. Yeah, there's video. I'm gonna punch in your dick and you say it. I'm gonna look right now, because now you have me. Are you really gonna research?

Well, I'm not gonna watch it, but I'm gonna, I just wanna see two girls, one cup comes up right away on YouTube. I kinda want you to watch it so you'll get your reaction. On YouTube, it's gonna be a bunch of people's reactions or it's gonna be people using that title to get clicks or whatever, but it's not. Yeah, I think you're right.

It's not the video. Everyone's small, you're right. This is one. Sometimes. Where's a lot of sick shit that pops up when you do that? Like what? A lot of sick people out there. There are.

Not just sick folks. Yeah. Was, who are these sick bastards looking at these videos? I'm not sure. He's just fucking sick. Hey, did you guys, did you hear about what's her face, Maria, Sharapova, the tennis player? Yeah.

Did you hear the band that, yeah, she got busted. What, what, it was called, I wasn't even, Mel Donium or something like that. Yeah, Mel Donium. Like a, like a blood, like, it's like, it almost like blood,

don't be squinted, is it? Let me double check, make sure I'm not fucking it up. Well, I read up that, that's called Mel Donium. Doesn't that sound like, it almost like blood doping. What is it? Let me double check, make sure I'm not fucking it up. Well, I read up that. That's called meldonium. Doesn't that sound like, so the trade name is milledronate. Does it sound like a drug that a villain in a superhero movie would make? You know what I mean? He was the meldonium.

It's exactly. It's only been around for the 70s. It sounded like it was, it sounded like you just made a blood thinner and it helps promote blood flow to your muscles. So to me, what it, I don't understand. I'm not quite sure how it works. I've never heard of it until this situation. It improves blood flow and oxygen, you know, your, your ability to uptake oxygen in your blood. And they made it and who used the, kind of like a, kind of like a NO2 type of

deal. NO2 supplements won't do that. So here's the thing, like if you take a nitric oxide booster like Viagra, Sialis, or... Sialis or Sialis. Sialis, Sialis, Sialis. We'll take samples, send them to your mind, putt media. If you take those, what those do is, those open the blood vessels,

but they don't improve necessarily oxygen uptake and stuff like that. In some situations they can, they've done some studies to show that if you took Viagra and then exercise that high altitudes, you might get an exercise boost. Well, meldonium works a little differently, and I'm not quite sure how it works, but it does, it has been shown to improve athletic performance in athletes, and it was popularized by the Soviets. The Soviets prescribed it to their soldiers when they were in the Afghanistan, when the Soviets were occupying Afghanistan and they were constantly a war with them.

And because of the high mountainous regions, they would give their soldiers meldonium and it would help them perform. Did meldonium, it sounds like something gargamel would have concocted in here. It is like that. You know, I could just see that. What was his cat's name? I was real. That's real.

There you go. So that's basically it. So she was taking this and apparently it was for some medical reason. Yeah, I forgot. I read what it's, what did it say? It's normally prescribed for God, what did it say? I can't remember. I don't know read what it's what it say. It's normally prescribed for God. What it's I can't remember. I don't know. Do you remember reading it? Let's wiki it wiki it up. It's a let's see medical use.

It's used for coronary artery disease. Things like ischema ischemia, excuse me, where you get too little blood flow to the organs of the body. It expands the arteries, increases blood flow, as well as flow of oxygen throughout the body. So things like angina, you know, the heart, yeah. She took it to help her and, wrong, angina. Not man, not man, angina. Hey babe, you don't want it.

I read this article, take this meldonium, rub it on your vagina. Right on your angina, girl. So, but anyway, it improves athletic performance. She got busted with it and now she's banned. How much does that count? Two years. How much?

How much can that really, could that even help? That just sounds. You know how it is, do it. It's playing hair, too. Yeah, cause they'll ban almost anything, you know, to, it's constantly trying to, you know, constantly trying to keep the playing field level and keep it safe, I think, is what they would tell you. But it's never level.

I mean, it's never really level anyway. I don't know. I mean, how are they going to test, like, when people start changing their gene expression and shit like that? Well, that's what's gonna get crazed. That's why I wonder, that's what I think right now with all like, anabolic and all the things that you can take

that are performance enhancers. I feel like that sports need to find, instead of banning, there should be some sort of like, testing extreme league. Well, okay. Yeah. So everything is legal. So like we're gonna be awesome.

Let's use something that's more widely talked about like test austrone, right, in sports. And we already know that naturally different men can have significantly different women to higher levels of test austrone naturally. And when let's just say, you know, the numbers are what, 300 to 1100 is the free range than what

it could be considered normal levels. Yeah. But there are some guys that are just genetic freaks that have like 1,300, 1,500 range free test, which is abnormally high compared to the average person. So who is really more at advantage? That guy who's doing that or the guy who's got you know, naturally low testosterone levels is on a hormone replacement therapy. And let's pretend that that guy is taking a very very mild dose just to keep him up in that range up in the normal range. But then there's a guy who's naturally already higher like.

That's a good question. Although let's be real that would just so people know like I think 50 milligrams of testosterone is equivalent to like 1500 free tests or something that so you'd have to be taken. It would be a low dose. Yeah, be extremely low dose. It'd probably be a cream. But the, exactly. But the point is, I mean, that could exist, right? That could exist.

It could, and it's all things have to be equal here because you could have someone who's testosterone levels are 400, but they have superior genes and other categories. And you have someone with high testosterone who has horrible genes for that particular sport. And the higher testosterone I got to do much for you. I know guys that have bad, I've known many, many people who've taken very high doses

of anabolic steroids or testosterone. So I know their testosterone levels are, 50 times higher than mine, and I could wipe the floor with them in the gym, both in our workouts and the way we look. So it's only one factor, you know what I mean? That you're looking at when you're looking at the total factors that influence.

But if all things being equal, I would think that the synthetic testosterone user would have an advantage because they may not experience the normal fluctuations in testosterone that as someone else may. For example, if you take someone who has high testosterone and put them under a lot of stress, their natural testosterone levels will drop.

If someone is taking testosterone and they're under a lot of stress, their testosterone levels won't. If someone is taking testosterone and they're under a lot of stress, their testosterone levels won't drop because they're taking it. So their body's not producing it, so it doesn't get affected by, you know, stress levels. It doesn't fluctuate as much. It doesn't fluctuate.

This is why when the UFC originally said it was okay for... HRT. Yeah, hormone replacement therapy. Like, no, that's legal, that's fine. It's still an advantage for that reason alone. And then there's also this reason. In the off season, a lot of these athletes

will take high doses of steroids. And then when it's time to test, they'll go off of them and then just go on maintenance levels. And they never experienced the major dip that, like, you know, let's say if I were to take a shit ton of steroids and then go off for testing, let's say if I were to take a shit ton of steroids and then go off for testing, I wouldn't go bat down to baseline.

I'd experience a few months of low. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's an advantage either way. You know what the hard subject for me. It's like, you know, like what we're doing is like, we're trying to rationalize cheating, you know, on different levels and different forms of it.

And I don't really think you can and different forms of it. I don't really think you can regulate a lot of it. It's too tough. It's too tough because at any level, you're going to find something that the right type of person will find a way around the system. There's always the shuffling of one party over the other. They're trying to manage and control while the other ones trying to press and find loopholes.

And everybody wants a level playing field, but that's like damn near impossible, in my opinion. So, well, this just points to your, I mean, Justin's level of integrity is ridiculous. He's the guy that everybody else could be cheating. Everybody else could be doing something and it's basically considered normal and Justin would refuse to

and that just speaks, the way you're talking about it reflects that. But there's two things here when you look at this drug testing that for me is super inconsistent. Number one, they're like, this is for the safety of the athletes, right? Let me explain something to you. If you're a professional football player, the least dangerous thing you do for your sports tourists takes their right. Like the most dangerous thing you do is play football.

Like if they're, it's it literally, literally, don't mind on that. What drama? 100% the most dangerous thing that those athletes are doing is playing football. If they're, if it was about the athletes safety, they wouldn't play football. Let's say no more tackling. That goes the same thing with MMA too. That's what I'm saying. I, it's not really for the athletes.

It's because there's a social stigma. It's also why the punishment for getting caught is hilarious because they know if they caught so-and-so taking steroids and banned him for life first offense, you know, right off the bat They lose a shit ton of money. Nobody wants to watch, you know People fans will be pissed off and would fans really want to watch sports that were really a hundred percent I see there's the other you know dilemma. It's like as a fan like you want to see like

Baseball for instance like it had a major falloff like nobody wanted to watch baseball for a while Then all of a sudden you have Mark McGuire and you know for instance, like it had a major fall off. Like nobody wanted to watch baseball for a while. And then all of a sudden, you have Mark McGuire and, you know, Sammy Soci. Sammy Soci. And that was like fantastic to watch. I love watching them rock. Brought baseball back, too.

Yeah, it was so fun to watch. And then it's like, you know, no shit, they're on steroids, you know, like it's just, of course, but did I care? I mean, sorry, I didn't care. I still think it's cool to look at bodybuilders, like pro bodybuilders. I think they're awesome to watch, not because I think I'm ever gonna look like them.

But it's extreme, it's super crazy. Like, you kind of wanna see how far we can press the boundaries, you know? It's very fascinating to me. And I, like, I know I'm saying like, okay, we should take the these parameters off or those restrictions off because it was especially with sports because to me, you can't push, you know, you shouldn't say you can't, it would not be advantageous for you to push the limits too far because and I don't remember which one of you two brought this up,

but you made a very good point one time about, okay, who would be stronger? The guy who is naturally 210 pounds, and that's his fighting weight, and he's, you know, 3% or 5% body fat, 210 pounds, or the guy who's normally 175 or 180 pounds, he took steroids to be big enough to fight at the 210. Who is that who's at a more of an advantage?

Oh, yeah. And the guy who's naturally at 210 is at a much more, I mean, his bone structure, his ligaments, joints, everything. He's supported for that. Yeah, it was naturally built for that. So his body is going to work more efficiently with his mass than the guy who is artificially put 30, 40 pounds on. So I think if and the same thing would go, that would translate it into football, tennis,

basketball, all these other sports. If you think that if we took restrictions off, just said, you know, if you're going to take, shit, you're going to take shit, whatever to each their own. And the guys would be like, oh my God, then everybody be a chemistry set and taking tons and tons and tons. Well, I don't really think so because if you started, you would get in the way. Exactly. You started a bodybuilder.

You, you know, LeBron James would start to look like a, you know, Mr. Olympia and he's not going to be, he's not going to be moving on the basketball court very well, looking at being 290 pounds, right? I think you're already seeing what, you know, what it is doing, right? I agree. It's not like, it's not like, it's not happening. That's what I'm saying. doing, right? It's not like, it's not happening. That is the body type that you could achieve, you know, on anal box, on like perfect training, on, you know, like every technique possible

that's going to give you the advantage of it. They're already doing that. It's such a good point. And then that's what I'm saying. And no matter what we ban, you know, that there's a huge, huge black market business in figuring out what isn't banned already and what's working or how do we change the compound just slightly to where it passed the test. And I really think that the black markets two steps ahead of the people that are supposed to. They only know how to test what they've,

what they eventually find. Like, oh shit, here's this new chemical, somebody leaked it out and said that athletes are using it, now we'll start testing for it. They don't know to test for things that they don't know, you know, that are out there. It's a total cat and mouse game and the mouse is constantly ahead of the game constantly.

I feel like the mouse is much smarter than the cat. Way smarter. Play smarter. I mean, it's the one, the one place where I really cringe, where I see anabolic steroid use, is with women. And I'll tell you why. It's not a sexist thing. It's because the effects of these hormones on the female body are so much more-

Change the chemistry, right? Well, it changes the chemistry, but I mean, if a woman goes to the doctor and wants a sex change, that's what they do. They give her male hormones. It would be the equivalent of a man taking estrogen. You're not just making yourself more of what you are. You're changing who you are on a different level and the side effects that happen to women are really kind of crazy.

A guy will, you know, his balls will shrink, which they come back after you go off. He might lose more of his hair, might get some acne, you know, that's pretty much it, you know, a woman's clitoris will grow because she's trying to grow a dick. This is literally what happens. The clitoris is the, is the part of the female anatomy that's the homogenous to the male.

She will grow her voice bigger where it's right there Just call it out it's broke. Yeah, that's good. The fallace her her voice will lower Because again, she's just her body's becoming male. Yes. This is not sexy. No Forget about sexy. It's just these are permanent like your voice lowers doesn't go back when you go off Your facial hair that doesn't go away now you got off. Your facial hair, that doesn't go away. Now you gotta, you gotta fucking whiskers coming out of your face. And it really messes with the female body because the female body's so sensitive to male hormones.

So when I see women wanting a little extra edge from anabolic and especially if these women aren't like, gonna make a shit ton of money from it, or there's really no reward on the other end, except for maybe, you know. Puss, there's such a little muscle in whatever. Huge misconception with how much it really truly helps. This is the part, and when you talk about females,

I had the same, I just recently had somebody reach out to me that's a female that was, you know, asking me openly about an anabolic stack that she was considering doing. And, you know, my first question right away was, you know, are you competitive? Are you getting ready to compete? Because to me, as a woman, this is the only reason why I would even think you would possibly even consider that as you are getting up there to compete at a very, very high level. You know that you're going to be competing against other girls that maybe possibly be doing the same thing and

you're that competitive than you want to win. So I get it. I understand and I think it's a very fair question to ask. But when you when you're not even sure if you're going to compete and you're just doing it because you want it to help you get more shredded or whatever, that to me is like, oh, that's all bad. You want to, you, you want to see what you can do naturally with your body and, and push yourself to that limit of getting as shredded as you possibly can and assess your physique before you ever would want to introduce these things like climb butyroll and windstrawl and primo and all these things that the women typically, anavar that they lean towards because it's a milder dose of, you know, hormones.

So these type of drugs women ask about because of that because there are less side effects in comparison to your harsher stuff like your testosterone and things like that was kind of mentioning. But it's like if you've never disciplined yourself nutritionally and training consistently to get yourself down to, you know, for a female, whatever, 10% body fat, which would be extremely lean and see what your physique looks like all naturally. I am not a fan at all of letting a woman introduce that into her routine, what's where, because it's not what you think it is. It's not like this, you take it and that's what, and it ain't, and, and if you do, because let's be honest, it is going to give you an edge. And if you kind of train and die, then this is the best you've ever trained and died, and

then this time around you've added, you know, these things into your routine. And of course, you're going to get a little bit better than you've ever seen before. So then in your head, you're going to correlate, like, you know, if I ever want to be that ripped or get that shredded or let that lean and fit, that, you know, that was why you need to go through that same stacks England. Yes. Yes. And this is what I see in men's physique like crazy is, you know, all these guys are always talking about what stack or what what steroids they're using are, and I hear all these like, and I'm going like, what the fuck are we doing taking all this stuff

when it's men's physique, you don't even need to be that big. You're not supposed to be that big. I was told my second show, I was told I was too big. So it's like, you don't need to take very much hormones to be, to put the size on you,

you need to, but everybody in their head, they think that they hear, oh, well yeah, everybody in men's physique, or everybody in bodybuilding, they think that they hear, oh, well, yeah, everybody in men's physique or everybody in bodybuilding or women's bikini and stuff does it. So in their head, they just think, oh, if you want to be that lean to look like that, you got to take these things.

But in reality, you'd be surprised if you just got super shredded naturally, what you would look like. Yeah, I think we need to. It sounds a perfect example. Just recently, somebody, this was great. We didn't talk about this somebody recently got on and they left us an email and They were talking about they had just found this from mine pump and they're kind of giving us like oh we it was after our our talk over in Sacramento and You know they said they were oh I was really excited to listen you guys talk and I really liked what you guys had to say and so

I've been listening to podcasts and I got on, I got on the website and I got to say I was a little disappointed though. The very first picture I see is of a steroid out guy on a muscle building program. And right away, I started dying left. I got really big. Yeah, I know. The huge compliment for Sal, which that's, that's awesome that people think that he's on steroids in that picture.

But that is an example of what happens when you get fucking shredded. Yeah. Every time I went on steroids in that picture, but that is an example of what happens when you get fucking shredded. Every time I watch that weight in that picture, probably like 180 something. That was like 180, I think 182, 183 pounds, six foot. So I'm not, I wasn't a big fucking dude. I guarantee you a good percentage of the dudes listening right now, or have you ever been bigger than that.

Yeah. It's just because I was shredded. I had took a good picture, I got a good pomp. And that is that way. And that is your diet and your training and program design to get you to look that lean. And it's amazing what you can do to the body naturally to look that way. Hey, like I said, I'm not someone to knock anabox whatsoever. You're trying to get your, especially if you're competing, and especially if you're a male, but a female who wants to get lean and get ripped, if you're competing, and especially if you're a male. But a female who wants to get lean and get ripped,

like that shit is there's no need for it. Now, and you know, there's also water retention that comes from it. Women are very sensitive too, so you'll end up getting more blow, but we gotta look at like, consider this, the vast majority of people that use these substances, these drugs, don't compete.

That's a fact, most people that use these things just do them themselves. And what is the root? What is the root reason that most people take black market hormones or compounds that are banned, like Claim Beauty Rawl and stuff like that? What is the root reason they all use that? And it all goes back to, they have body image issues and and there's issues with their own self confidence. I'm gonna take this whatever, and it's gonna make me happy.

It's gonna make me happy with myself. It does. It's the pill form mentality, everything that's like a fixer. Yeah. It's a deflection of like, they don't wanna internalize the process. Like they wanna use like an external substance to provide what's necessary for them to feel happy.

No, I'm going to speak from 100% personal experience. This is my own story. Yes, I'm natural. I don't take any exogenous hormones, but I wasn't always natural. I've definitely done my experimentation in my younger years. I've very open about how I had body image issues. Of course, as a young male in the fitness world, you don't know that's what it is. You just want to get bigger and you don't feel happy because you're not your skinny or

you're not as big as the next guy. The very last time I used anything that would even classify as a steroid would be, when they used to sell them over the counter. For a while there, you could buy over the counter. One testosterone, for example, was one of them. It was legal because it was some weird loophole, but it was a designer steroid. There was no doubt about it. It wasn't a pro hormone.

It didn't have to convert. It was anabolic all by itself. I think the last time I used that was probably maybe 10 years ago, but it was all rooted in insecurity and not feeling You know adequate wanting to feel happy from them and here's what I got from them I got none of that did I get bigger and stronger? Definitely you take them and you know boom, you know gain 10 pounds boom. I'm you know I'm stronger in the gym go off of them, gain 10 pounds, boom. I'm, you know, I'm stronger in the gym. Go off of them, boom, lost 10 pounds, boom,

you know, lost my strength in the gym. And so you never, you're never happy, even if I were to keep the gains permanently, it wasn't treating the root reason as to why I was using them. And like Adam was saying, I, you did my health, myself a huge disservice because I did not give myself the time

to really master and learn and listen to my body because it was constantly being, the signals were being muddied with these artificial signals that I was taking. So I had no idea that my workout was not nearly as effective as it could be. I had no idea that my diet was not nearly as effective as it could be. I had no idea that my diet was not nearly as effective as it could be.

I didn't figure that out until I went off, anything that was even remotely hormonal and started to really learn my body through exercise and through nutrition and what really makes it respond or what does it make it respond. And I can say with full confidence today, you know, older at an older age out of my prime, I'm stronger in many lifts and I look better than I did back then because I'm doing those things like

Adam was saying that have a lot of impact and really it's about learning my body. Now, of course, if I added those things on now, I would have surpassed by far what I did in the past, but for what, you know what I'm saying, for what? I get it, why some people want to take it, why some people want to take it, why some other people, why people want to, you know, mess with those things, but really look at the root of it. It's not going to give you what you want. And I think at the end of the day, you think you want

that extra five to 10 to 15 pounds of muscle and you think you want to drop two to three percent body fat. But why? Ask yourself, why? Why do I want 10 more pounds of muscle? I don't compete, I'm not, I don't need that 10 pounds extra muscle for anything else. What is it that I need it for?

Oh, because I think it's gonna make me feel better about myself. Well, guess what? You could do that right now. You don't need the extra 10 pounds, and that 10 pounds I can give it to you anyway. So I just wanted to be clear with that, because I think people who are listening right now,

a lot of them who use them don't compete. And that they're using them for the same reasons that I might have messed with them and that was because they just didn't feel good about themselves. It's the same kind of stance that we have with supplements. It's like, not really going to the real source, like, you know, seeing what kind of progress you can get just eating a whole natural foods. Like, we want to get things that accelerate the process and we feel like, you know, we're behind in some kind of race.

And we're trying to, we're trying to voice the fact that this isn't a race. And that's the hardest thing to get across to your average person because everything with marketing is that it is a race. This person is getting it this quickly. This person is getting to this crazy degree of their body, what it could look like, and how shredded they are.

And nobody's voicing the fact of experiencing the process and enjoying all these changes as they come. And focusing on each one of these particular aspects of training and the benefits, like just getting a little bit more endurance, getting stronger in this type of a lift, having more energy, waking up, feeling like amazing. That's not the kind of shit that people are gonna mark it.

Well, the very first commercial, I wasn't really a commercial, it was kind of an info commercial, I guess, for the original first commercial, I wasn't really a commercial, it was kind of an info commercial, I guess, for the original maps program, maps in a ball deck. I set on there, training, if you follow maps, there's like taking a low dose of steroids. It's comparable to taking a low dose of anabolic steroids. Really?

I was speaking from personal experience. I was not using, I wasn't throwing out fucking words, so people will click on my thing. I wasn't bullshitting like every other before and after and this is the most anabolic feeling you'll ever get. And you're like, I literally, when I really started to figure out how to train my body properly, it reminded me of when I would take

some of these over-the-counter designer steroids, which I said, I haven't taken for, I don't even know, probably more than like, more like 15 years, but my point is, I remember doing it and thinking to myself, like, oh shit, this feels like when I would take, you know, one testosterone or whatever the, you know, master draw, I think one of them was called.

This is what it feels like, and it's basically like a low dose of steroids, and that's why I put it on there, and some people gave me a little heat about that, like, oh, you're trying to say this is like, there was like, no, but it feels to me, from personal experience, like when I would take some of these designer

over the counter store, those are the kind of results I got, where I'd go to the gym and I'm like, oh, it's shit, I'm getting stronger and I'm recovering really fast. And my muscles are building. But if I never stopped fooling with those things, I would have never figured out, you know,

some of the programming, you know, concepts that we have now on maps. Well, the point is that there's cardio, weight training, nutrition, how you train, program design. There's this order of operation of things that will change your body more than anything else. I think for me, so I love hearing you because you have a different take on it. For me, I'm the guy who's like,

I'm all for it, whatever. If you wanna take some shit, take some shit. And who am I to say, you don't want 20 extra pounds of muscle, if you want it, fuck it, you want it, whatever. My thing is, and why I'm so adamant about talking about it like this is that I was fooled. I was under the impression, like I think majority of people are, which is that's what I needed to do

to get to that next level of size. So when I did, I didn't get the results that I expected. I was so disappointed, I was so disappointed that, I was already a trainer, so I felt like I was training good and hard and I ate pretty good in my eyes, which by then back then was when I'm eating hot pockets and shit like that, thinking like that, I'm getting what I need for my body, right? Because I had the macros.

Yeah, no exactly. My perception of good nutrition was totally different and the same thing goes with the program design. I was training hard, so my impression of good training would be intensity. So a lot of the fallacies we talk about on this show, I was like that. And which is why I think we're so passionate when we talk about things like this. And for me, steroids, you know, a sal comes from a different angle and what he talks about, I'm like, don't be fucking fooled. You know, don't be fooled that you're going to take it and you're going

to you're going to wake up and look like one of those men's physique guys, you know, don't do not be fooled that take-in ship is the answer. And that's what is missing from your routine. If you can't, and this is all I wish people do, do this, do this for yourself. I'm not saying don't take anything. You want to take some biome, I mean, do your research, figure it out, you know,

do your thing, okay? But before you do, do this for yourself. Challenge yourself to get down to a body fat percentage. So a woman somewhere down to the, you do, do this for yourself. Challenge yourself to get down to a body fat percentage. So a woman somewhere down to the 10% body fat range for a guy, sub 5%. Disappoint to do it naturally first. Do that first and assess your body. Prove to yourself, you can do that through which everybody

easily can do, not easily, but it's simply can do that by eating correctly, training correctly, and look at your body and prove to yourself you have the discipline to that. If you're not able to do that, and you want to take a steroid to help you get there, you still won't get there. You still won't get to that goal. I don't care how much steroids you take. It doesn't work that way because your nutrition and your program design is still fucked up. The anabolic is not the answer. It's still like a blob. Yes, you'll just add muscle.

You will. You'll put some size on you, but then you'll still have just as much fat you won't look at. I see this a lot. You still have it. Yeah. The bloated, the bloated blob.

If what I'm saying wasn't true, literally I would go, and you guys correct me if you think I'm wrong. I would be willing to say that 60% of our gym use regular Joe blows going to the gym are either running anabolic or have tried anabolic inside the gym. Literally that much. I believe that depends on the gym. Yeah. Yeah. You go to a gold. Yeah. Definitely a good percentage have tried them. Yes, definitely. And so, you know, and if they were that magical,

then everybody would be walking around looking like a cover of a magazine. And they don't, you know, I'm right. If they were that effective, if they were literally that effective where you could take them and then look like, you know, you could walk on a stage. We would sell them.

Everybody, no, I mean, way more people would use them. Yeah, we would sell. Way more people would sell them. Everybody. No, I mean way more people would use them. Yeah, we would sell way more people would use them. You know, no, it's true. Very, very, very, very. And that's to me, that's all I want to get across to people is, you know, do not think that's what it is. And I use it. I no longer take any supplements right now, but I used to treat, that's how I used to treat myself was, I used to tell myself, okay, I'm not even gonna spend the extra money on this thing or put anything else in my body until I'm dialed everywhere else. And then if I feel like I want the extra edge or I need the extra edge for whatever reason,

okay, well then I'll introduce them with that. Otherwise, you're totally wasting your money and you're really doing it as backwards, prove to yourself, but take your body to its natural limits and then if you really feel that you need another 20 to yourself, take your body to its natural limits, and then if you really feel that you need another 20 pounds of muscle on your body, or you want it, then that's where I'm different than South.

By all means, I mean, if you want that, then... Well, I'll say this, look, I firmly believe that you own your own body, do with it as you wish. Just, you know, I would recommend you be smart about it, but it's your body, I don't give a shit. You wanna hurt yourself, you wanna make yourself better, you wanna make yourself worse. Long as you hurt nobody else, as would recommend you be smart about it, but it's your body, I don't give a shit. You wanna hurt yourself, you wanna make yourself better, you wanna make yourself worse.

Long as you hurt nobody else, as long as you're not forcing it upon anyone else, I don't think anybody should stop you. I think it's your body, do what you want. I can have my opinion on it, you can't stop that, but I ain't gonna stop you. But you gotta consider this too, and I wanna say this because we might have

some impressionable people listening. Anabolic steroids are black market. If you buy them, you're not buying them in any kind of a market that has any real... No regulation. No regulation, but besides that, there's really no... The reason even a really good, strong free market regulation in the sense that this, you could get completely ripped off

so much of steroids is mental that you could give a 17-year-old kid, you know, here's some expensive tremble on, you know, which is an expensive steroid. And I could put in 100 milligrams of testosterone. He could think he's taken 300 milligrams of tremble on. He's going to feel something, but he's not going to know I'm ripping him the fuck off. He's also not going to know if it's clean. He's also not gonna know if it's clean. He's not gonna know where it was made, where it came from. I mean, back in the late 90s, early 2000s,

a lot of the black market steroids were veterinary. Now, veterinary is probably super expensive. Even that's probably hard to get. Now people are probably not gonna know that. That's it. No, it's, I mean, being somebody who was, you know, 22, 23 years old when I was first introduced to anabolic back then you used to get it shipped, you know, overseas and it would, and you used to, we used to have the anabolic Bible, you could go back and you could look in and say, you know, this is a,

you know, pharmaceutical steroid with that. Now I don't think I've seen a pharmaceutical steroid in probably 10 years. No, it's everything is made. They're buying salt. It's bathtub at home. Exactly. They're buying bulk chemicals from China and they're literally making it weighing themselves and making it and putting it in these syringes and then labeling it and saying this has 200

milligrams of testosterone per CC or 100 milligrams or whatever. You have no fucking idea. You have no idea what's in there, how clean it is. You're taking it, you're putting it in your syringe, and you are deep injecting that into your muscle. So these are big risks that you're playing with. So I just weigh all that shit out. And if you're doing it just cause you go to the gym and you want to gain 10 pounds of

muscle, add them through those 20 pounds of lean muscle around, like that's actually gonna happen for most of you. It's not, most of you could take steroids, you're not gonna gain 20 pounds of lean muscle. Most of you will gain 15 pounds and half of it will be shit and the other half will be muscle. You'll gain lots of water and bloat and other stuff. So just, just, honestly, from my viewpoint,

I just don't think it's worth it. The guys that I do know that take, you know, anabolic's on a regular basis, they've been in the industry so long that they have the right connections, they know what's going on, they know what they're doing. The average person like, where are you gonna go? You're gonna go ask the big guy in the gym,

you really trust that fucker. You're giving good shit. He's probably gonna say that this is my mistake. He's not shy to you. I had a body builder game in my very first dose of anabolic. And, you know, I was 20-something years old, didn't know any better. He looked awesome. So, you know, I was, he must know what he's doing, right?

And had him put me on a stack that was, now I look back and go like, what the fuck was I thinking doing that big of a stack? Probably shut you down permanently. Oh, totally. That's, I mean, that's why I have to do HRT because of the fact that my hormonal levels have never been the same when what it was when I was 20 something years old. And it sucks because I know going into that,

I was just like, I was like, Sal, you know, we always, I was T-Sal, but man, I was the same way. That's like the wind blows and I'm excited. So, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't until I experienced that and realized holy shit, like these idiots out there are getting bamboozled all the time by people and the guy who sounded to me, no, of course you wanted to sell me, because he made more money off of me, made more money by giving me a thousand dollar stack worth of stuff, not because I needed all those compounds in me.

Like, literally, I could have done a tenth of what he gave me and what I've seen just as good of a result and probably not had the adverse effects. Not to mention, most of them don't have, they've got all the oils because they can make that really quick but it's harder for them to get the oils that are for your PCT. So afterwards to balance your hormonal levels out and a lot of young guys like myself,

didn't know any better, got involved in that stuff and then found out like a later on. Plus PCT is like post cycle therapy is a protocol you take to help your body come back to its normal state when you go off of all these hormones. And for a kid, it's like, I want a fucking super fast drag racer, I could give a shit about breaks. Like I don't need breaks, fucking I just want, I want to get as fast drag racer. I could give a shit about breaks. Like, I don't need breaks, fucking, I just want,

I want to get as fast as possible. That's what you're thinking about when you're getting it. You're right. The guy's like, hey, do you want a parachute? Yeah, do you want anything for post-cycle therapy? No, I'll spend that extra money on more shit that's gonna make me bigger. It's very true.

Not realizing that the post-cycle therapy is more important than the shit that you're going on. So true. It's just, it's, it's it's look of all the people of the world that you probably shouldn't trust. It's a drug dealer in the black market. Like that's the last person you should be like, I'm gonna trust what you say. That's not really a trustworthy person. I got you. Yeah. Trust me. This is exactly. No, no, no, it's totally clean. Don't worry. You won't get an infection. Dude, I had a buddy who had a fucking chunk of his ass cheek removed. Yeah, I've heard her as horror stories.

That's why I always tell myself, you know what? Because I'm bitter about that story because I know I've mentioned that story more than once of me taking a huge stack before, but I'm like, it could be worse. I know guys that have had way worse situations. I mean, so what, my hormonal levels are pretty shit forever unless I take anything, but I'm like, it could be worse. I know guys that have had way worse situations. I mean, so what my hormonal levels are pretty shit forever, unless I take anything, but everybody, I've heard some nasty stories of guys that have been fucked up of taking something that's like I said,

so that you, somebody made in their bathtub, man. And I, you know, I know we probably lost like half of our listeners during the show because maybe in a ball, or something you don't even care about or pay attention, but there is a good majority of people. I feel like I've been getting a lot of inboxes, a lot of questions about that. I feel like it's a topic that too many people are afraid to discuss.

It's taboo and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be discussed and talked about. And I think that's the problem with it. There's this mystique about it that people think it's so amazing. And it's really not as mystical and magical as you think it is. No, here's what you do. No.

Here's what you do. You want really good results. This is what you do. Very simple, okay, for most of you listening, it's going to work best for most of you guys listening right now. Don't do a body parts split. Take your body, train you three days a week, full body. Do the total volume the same as you did it before. So break up your sets amongst those three workouts. Focus on your compound lifts. Focus on your barbell, bench press,

your deadlift, your squat. Focus on pull-ups, your rows. Overhead presses. Don't go to failure, stop a couple of reps short. Eat whole natural foods. Don't overeat protein, but eat a sufficient amount of protein. And if you really want to take it the next level, if that's, you know, because I just gave you a real bare bone skeleton, if you really want it, kind of mapped out and planned out for you, go to mindpumpmedia.com, enroll in Maps and Abolk, that's the original Maps program, and just follow that. I have, we have countless people who are very experienced.

We got someone on the forum who's more musk-o than if you put me and Adam combined, the dude's yac and in the first phase of his program of maps red, he's broken PRs in most of his lifts and gain size. And this is somebody who even trained for 15, 20 years. Yeah, he's like in a gain size typically, right? So it works. And if you want to go even a step further and you want it all planned out, we have a super bundle, which gives you nine months of exercise programming, through all that try that out and see what I will save you money and your health. I want to plug one more thing that we haven't talked about in a while is the forum and I

know Doug mentioned that we got it we got to raise the price. Well yeah he mentioned that we're the price is going to be going up on it soon and here's the thing like there's just a lot of people on there. Yes. There is a ton of activity and more importantly there's a lot of people on there. Yes. Yeah. There is a ton, a ton of activity. And more importantly, there's a ton, a ton of great information and help and guidance. I don't care how old you are, what conditions, what insecurities, what you have going on with you. You name it. There's it's being discussed on there. And it's one of the things that I absolutely love

about this thing. It really is an extension of the show with the connection to us. So it's an extension of the show where the topics we discussed we talk about we get more depth more personal with people on the form. We've created this culture of people that are helping each other and it's one of the most beautiful, it's my favorite part of this entire business so far. Everything that we've built and done, I'm proud of our programs, I'm proud of our guides, I'm proud of this show,

but I couldn't be more proud of the forum and what it's turned into. And if you're not on there and you don't have any pro, you know what, and you're wondering, maybe I should buy a program, don't even spend the money on that yet. Ghost bin 47 bucks on the forum and just get your ass on forum. Oh, there's lots of free information.

Lots of code training. Don't buy anything from us. Don't buy that first. If you're wondering like, oh, I was thinking about this or thinking about that. If you're on the fence about something, don't buy any programs. Don't spend the big buck. Ghost bin 47 dollars. Get yourself in the forum and just just, and learn, just introduce yourself,

say hi, it's my first day, see what happens. Yeah, Tag, Tag one of us on there, so we know who you are. I'll say this too, I was just thinking about this the other day, for trainers, for personal trainer, because we have a lot of trainers that are on there. There's a few people who are in the fitness and health industry. Some of them are trainers, some of them aren't,

some of them are researchers, some of them are, you know, work with nutrition. It's a great place to, like, kind of build your name. Like, there's a few people on the forum that are getting tag now by other people asking questions. You know what I'm saying? Like, some will ask a keto question and then I forgot what's his name. We'll get tag to meet tree. Yeah. Yeah. He'll get tag. Yeah. You'll see people getting tag now on the forum for other people's questions and Personally as a trainer if I was trying to build my business and I was trying to get my name out there And I was trying to introduce myself to people not and I'm not promoting like you advertise you just get on there and help people out

It's a great place to make amazing connections. So there you go listen if you like mine pump Go to iTunes, leave us a five star rating review, make it a good review. If we really like it, if it's one of the best ones, you will get a free t-shirt, a free mine pump t-shirt. And of course, all the programs and the forum can be found at mindpumpmedia.com. Thank you for listening to mine pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com.

The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review

on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump. for your support and until next time this is Mindbump.