Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 317: Squat vs. Deadlift, Leg Extensions, Overtraining & MORE

Episode Date: June 24, 2016

In this Quah Sal, Adam & Justin answer Pump Head questions about the importance of goals, if leg extensions really are a pointless exercise, what is overtraining and the symptoms of overtraining and what they would pick if they had to choose between the squat and deadlift. Get MAPS Anywhere at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week the best reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

Hey, what's up, man? What happens if someone wants to follow one of our maps programs, but they don't have access to a gym? They're fucked. Do we, we came up a solution for that? We came up with a solution. We did. Maps, maps anywhere. It's the first maps program, no gym equipment required. Do it at home. Available at mindpumpmedia.com. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Hey, it's the rubber dick deep up. Short to long, crooked to straight. We got all you need to master bait. 50% off all anal beads. It's a little. Yeah, it's a little product placement we got on here. Today is a special day.

It's a special day. What do you mean why? I'm just kidding. I know why. You know why? Of course I know why. It's the Golden Eagle's birthday. Ooh, it's the Golden Bird. It's, it's the Golden Eagles birthday. Ooh, it's the Golden bird.

It's the Golden Eagles birthday. And how many eggs is that? Oh boy. I just lost count a long time ago. I'm running out of fingers and toes or aren't you? A long time ago, yeah. Happy birthday, Douglas.

Yeah, thank you, birthday. Eagle Master. I bet you feel lucky that your team totally forgot about your birthday until people on Facebook I didn't expect you to remember Yeah, don't even tell us we're all hanging out together in Reno and I thought I was like man We would win celebrate we'd done a strip club or something. Yeah, we should have done that Just it's so angry you guys. That's a lame. We are yeah, Doug's birthday and we are we never even left. We just work

That's all we do We wish we were more interesting sometimes You know you know was when hilarious. It's okay that when we were working out at the gym and the three of us were working out and all of a Sir I thought like half the conversation revolved around like what joint hurts and how I'm here And I got to do this and that times of change Doug's fucking scampering around like a chimp on every machine, exercise, squats, dead lifts. He's all energized after, Hey guys, what are we doing afterwards?

And we're like, oh, I know. Think about taking a nap. Well, at one point, we were over and then we're over and then we're like, I need hurt. We're over doing incline press and salx over me and we're looking over at Doug. He's like, look at him, look at him over there. He's like, that's the goal right there. It is, I did do that.

I go, it is bro, I agree with you. I'm like, I definitely, I said, I hope I'm moving as well. It's because I feel like he moves better than us. So we got out of the car from, what was that, five hour drive or whatever, four hour drive. And all three of us, me, Justin and Adam,

we came out walking like we were, like robots from like a movie in the 1950s, like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,

boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, Can't move falling. What are you guys doing the gym? Do you like it? Yeah, Jim and Reno is it pretty cool. Yeah. I really big. I'm not as impressed as you want me to be. I know I'm actually really disappointed in your reaction. No, I really liked it. Yeah, don't confuse me with sour. Okay, good

I felt like we get confused all the time. It is a mod Italian. I can't name a gym that I've been in that I like better than that gym. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius.

I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius.

I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius my favorite parts of a gem. It was a little bit light in the weights department. You know what I'm saying? Like there wasn't enough squat racks in like, you know,

I like that kind of shit. That was all just like taped off so we couldn't use it. You know, like all this stuff like for me, I look at the first thing, I look at I can do sprints up this astro turf, like artificial hill. I was like, hell yeah. Let's push a sled up there.

Yeah, push a sled. Like sorry, sorry. Yeah. You're gonna hurt yourself. Well, that's me. I walk in a gym. And then the sign upstairs, no dead lifting upstairs. Oh, man.

It's gonna be one of those. I walk into a gym like that. And I see it like from a trainer's perspective, or if I lived here. From a trainer's perspective. From a trainer's perspective. That was a gelato answer. That's what I saidpective. That was a gelato answer. So, uh, no, I look, I look at it and go, okay, let, if you lived here, uh, and this was

your home gym, you would eventually take over the whole gym and be able to go use whatever you wanted. Yeah. You would work your way into the setup was awesome. Yeah. Like it's just the way that like we couldn't like navigate through it the way we wanted to. I think that just kind of threw it. No, it was cool. It had a track and indoor track. It had a basketball court.

Sick facility. For me, you have to understand though, for me, what gets me, and I think it's awesome. Like I said, it's an awesome gym. But for me, what would get me more excited is if I went into one of those iron dungeon gyms with like old strong man shit and chalk and that gets me fucking psych

Now I'm not saying that the gym we went into wasn't awesome, it was it's just just like okay I have this might be a preference thing. Yeah, I think that's what it is Yeah, it's I really like you know the athletic field to that gym with it all yeah grass and Yeah, and then the basketball court Open it was racquetball courts, full court basketball courts, in a full like mile track, quarter mile track in there. I mean, they had what, I've never seen a hill in a gym. No, that's what I'm saying.

Never seen a hill. I've built it in a gym. They had what, four basketball courts? Yeah. Was it three, four? No, it was just two basketball courts. Two, two, two, two. So it's crazy, I haven't played basketball.

I said them up for the last night. I was a basketball teacher. A lot, I don't think I ever had. I said him up for the last night. I don't think I ever have. This one into the ground. You have a softball. So I'll put out the squat video. It's cool. Well, it's important that we talk about it.

Yeah, let's get this out. Yeah, let's get it out. This is a discussion that we need to have. Because I think the audience has incorrect perception of me as being completely unethletic because you guys joke about it all the time. And so, you know, this is a mastery of, you know, a wrong recruitment pattern. That's not true.

Just a good shot. He mastered that. Oh my God. These assholes were making shots and I couldn't believe it. I was, because, because of your mechanics. Exactly. You defined nature. I did. We was because because of your mechanics. Exactly. You defined nature.

I did. He did. We played a horse and it was not close at all. It was close. It actually wasn't. Adam must have made because Adam was before me in horse. You must have made like five shots that I meant. Then afterward you're like, oh, you're out and I'd make that same shot.

Yeah, you did. Like every single one of them. Well, you know, here's the thing. So the best part though was that, I mean, we're all, I mean, we're grown man. It's all a good time. Nobody cares. There was no money being, you know, better or anything,

but Justin was visibly upset for a good, I don't do well with losing. It was like a good few hours. You know, eating about me. Yeah, I just don't, I fuck you. I'm not gonna lose. You know, you don't care what it is. Afterwards, it's like, we're playing basketball tomorrow.

One on one. And then he just, no, no way, man. I got my win. You know how to hear him? You don't care what it is afterwards is like we're playing basketball tomorrow one-on-one Here I've never played loser mentality Well, I'm a winner actually the fact that we lifted weights and we lifted shoulders and we did all bunch of honor Which has been back the fact that we did a bunch exercise like that and it actually improved your shot and fucked mine up I want what happened what happens is is that my skills don't deteriorate as I get fatigued. Yeah, I get messed with a lot of people. So just kind of, just reminds me of that uncle

that used to beat me with those, what's that shot, the granny shot? Oh yeah. You just keep throwing the granny shot. I couldn't make it. It was just so dumb. You do realize that the granny shot, speaking from a purely physics perspective is actually

is actually better than the regular shot that basketball players will take the overhand. And who told you that? No, no, no. If you're playing basketball, you can't do that. You'll get stopped every time. But if you're just shooting from a pure physics standpoint, it is because as the ball arcs up and comes down, that there's been plenty of players before in the shoot that way of been plenty of players before in the Shoot that way free throws. Yeah, because the whole is actually if you're shooting from this thing Much smaller. Yes, I hear you. Yep. So granny had she had some uh, yeah, but not when you have a defender on you No, then you're stupid. Yeah, what's the defender? Yeah, I don't know That's you tell me master of basketball. Yeah, that was a good time though. That was fun.

Yeah, no, that's going to be, I'm pretty sure you'll probably never forget that moment. Because then we haven't recorded it. He made sure to get it up on the fucking phone. Oh, I feel great for South for that, to be honest, man. It's like, no, that was a good win for him. It was. That was an important win for him. He doesn't get a lot of those.

I mean, I would have rather been the guy squatting the most weight when we were squatting, but I mean, if you were going to take, no, it's okay, because like the basketball thing, the horse. Not even basketball, let's just be honest. Horse. No, it's with the squats. That's a good thing I had as film the pause at the end. From the pause, that was the end. Brothers and sisters, that was a legit five, man.

You're like a two. I was like, what? I don't know where you're counting. That's when I start modifying. You got to understand how to play the game. You're competing. You just start. You look at the direction. You're breath. Oh yeah, I do five. Yeah. You look at the direction of like where the competition's going. And then you just start saying, Oh, you know, we could try create your own version that I know I can do better. It's smart, bro. That's a pretty good squad. Can you do that while singing the Italian? Yeah, well, we were benching and I just get done telling the guys, like, oh, man, my forums kill me right now. It's hurting just a bench. And so this

guy goes, well, you know what you do is you go to do some weighted pull ups. We'll see He made me film that. Yeah. Yeah. Boom. Oh. Is it coming or is it? Oh shit. I'm here. Oh no. I don't hear it. It's the motherfucking gull.

Quee-claw. The eagle has landed. Yeah. I think Justin was waiting for the other set up. Yeah, which one? I don't remember the one. You're talking about bitch. I always was a remember, Lily.

You were, but that's all right. Take it away, Doug. Yeah, let's start out here. Yeah, one of us wasn't on cue. Was that a normal brow near? Yeah, we should have cue cards. Yeah, maybe. Should we do that now?

What was I supposed to do right there? I was supposed to be. You I supposed to do right there? You're supposed to set me up so I could be like, send me a Negro. Oh, then I was either summon him. And I'm saying, why was I responsible for that? I was, you're the one who's your idea. No, I didn't tell you that.

Oh, that it was my idea. Oh, that's probably right. I said it and you're in there. You're in the car with us. Oh my God, dude, was that probably what I was talking to Katrina on the phone? Um, I don't know. I don't remember. I was not speaking. You sound just like her right now. I'm like, I'm supposed to know you know, you should know.

Yeah, you know, you know, you know me. You know me. My wife's, you know, you should know what I'm thinking. Damn it. It's a very similar problem. We have. All right, Sal. Quatt' time. Let's do it. These two are going out. You guys, you were going to keep talking. And Dorf and O'Hullock, our goals, a requirement for success in health and fitness, what are your goals and have they changed over the years? That's a good question.

Are they a requirement for success? Goals are an effective tool to get people motivated to stay on a course. There is a downside to having a specific goal, however, when it comes to fitness. I don't remember the term. There's an actual term that's used for a phenomena that happens when somebody has a particular goal and they work hard to achieve that goal. Once they get to that goal, there's like, where do I go from here? And then they have this kind of down, like low motivation, like, okay,

I did what I was supposed to. Now what, you know, it happens a lot with people who train for like, you know, long distance runs or competitions. I experienced this myself training for certain competitions where there's this huge build up, this huge goal, I was training my ass off, got the goal, and then afterwards I kind of lost like, okay now, what do I do?

And so I had to search for that in the schools. So they are an effective tool, but there are some potential drawbacks. I guess if you can, when it comes to fitness and health, if you can simply enjoy the process, that's the best. If I can just enjoy the day to day, and not be too worried about hitting a new PR or getting, you know, gaining, you know, X amount pounds of more muscle or getting so much leaner, I think long term that's got to be the best way to do it. I mean, how many possible goals do you have? Unless you continue to change them, which,

you know, I tend to do, I tend to change my goals where one month I may focus on strength whereas another month I may focus on mobility and try and pick different things. It is fun to hit those targets. So I don't know how you guys feel about. I don't think I approach it so much like that. There are times where I have a goal. And I definitely can relate to Sal

and listening to him talk about that reminds me of just like, you know, the whole process of competing for me. You know, it was such a, it was this huge goal for me to accomplish that and then once it all came and then once I'd worked my way up the ladder, it was just kind of like, and then now it's kind of like, I'm kind of over it.

There's not really, for me, that was the big that was the big deal the big deal was to Prove I could do it go all the way through the whole process and get there Well, and so there is that little bit of let down afterwards, you know, you get it's kind of like oh It's not I'm not excited anymore, and so the new new goals come But it doesn't always I don't think that you I don't think they necessarily go hand in hand just because I think you can also learn to, to love the whole process of what you're doing and being present. Like, for example, you know, going into, you know, mobility was, you know, takes me out of my comfort zone. And, you know, the, the boys, we're, I don't remember what we were talking about this weekend when we were together.

You saw kind of mentioned, you know, kind of my mentality with training and mobility and things like that lately. And it's just, I kind of, I actually really like to find the things that I'm really bad at. And I enjoy getting better. And it doesn't necessarily, I don't have a goal in mind. I have to be better than another person. Or I need to be, you know, get to this certain level and like't have a goal in mind. I have to be better than another person, or I need to get to this certain level

and set this big goal around it. It's just that this is a weak part in whatever it is. My fitness said, I wanna make it better, and I'm gonna work at it. I'm gonna enjoy the process. And part of the process sometimes is setbacks where I felt less mobile than what I did the week before. And then other times I'm gonna take huge strides forward

and I'm gonna learn that certain moves are better for me than others and some things. These are the stuff that you just kinda, I feel like you enjoy the process more so of getting hung up on these big goals. I've never been somebody I think that hangs too much on that. I think if you do, then like

you said, you're setting yourself up for kind of a huge disappointment. Yeah, I think I think that like initially when I first started, I had more like smaller, more measurable goals that I would that did sort of help me sort of guide me as far as like the direction I wanted to go and everything. But I think now I'm a lot more like you as far as what you're describing. Just sort of finding and addressing weaknesses or things that I could totally benefit and improve from and you know, responding to feedback or just putting myself in like situations where I know I'll grow, you know, and like it doesn't matter if it's like here in the podcaster. It's like You know if I can grow in some sort of a strength that I haven't pursued before like that totally excites me

You know if it's a skill or if it's something that's like, you know a maceball I never learned how to do that, but I had to learn how to do that by you know Going and asking my my friend who's like really versed in it And so we just hashed it out and and I'm trying to figure this thing out. I don't know, I just like unique things now. But I think I had to go through that process in the beginning of really determining, I want to get stronger at these basic movements. Set the goals, move the goals, be flexible, and move on to a new goal.

But they were a lot more simplistic, whereas now I get a little more crazy. And we're all right now. I understand it better. We're all right now talking about more of the fitness side of it, when you start getting into the health side of it, because he says health and fitness and food relationship, I would think if goal stuff is even almost really bad,

because at this point, that's why we talk about. It's just hard to measure the goals there. Like, okay, I wanna be overall, have better wellness. I guess you can break it down and say, okay, I wanna make sure, I wanna eliminate these foods that I don't have an issue with. Or, I think in the beginning of, goals are extremely motivating,

but eventually, the goal eventually becomes to do it because you want to, because you enjoy it, and that because you have a specific goal. But the very beginning, I mean, you probably have to have goals. I can't imagine just starting off and being, you know, not saying I want to do this for a reason. Yeah, and I think the type of goals for health

I set are like consistency type goals. Yeah. Like I want to, I decide I want to, like you said right now, like there's certain things I want to cut out of my life because I know they're not ideal or healthy for my body or things that I would like to encourage more into my diet. And so I'll try and be very disciplined about that. And my goal is just to be consistent with it.

Not so much like what do I expect from it? Like, oh, my goal is if I'm going to start eating this way, I'm going to be super ripped. Like, no, I don't think that way. I think like, you know, hey, I, you know, diet soda is a habit of mine that I know is not ideal for me. And, you know, I want to get away from doing that. Yeah. And when I do, I'm not going to make a huge deal about it. I'm not going to go be depressed over with that. That's part of the journey. You know, and just I'm always going to be trying to strive to be more consistent in that versus the outcome of it, right? Yeah, I think when I first started working out, especially with gold,

it was always gained more muscle in size, right? More muscle, more strength, more muscle, more strength. Now, I always trained in that direction, no matter what, it's just there, it's just something I enjoy and I want. But now I do take health a lot into consideration. So, my goals aren't so, I'm not so hard about it. You know what I mean? Like, if I want to get to a certain deadlift and I don't now,

it's okay, whereas before I would push, push, push until I got to that particular goal because the goals themselves became, I saw how those turn my health and fitness into something else. You know what I mean? And so now it's a little bit different, but I'm still, even now, I still haven't really reached the point where I just do it because I enjoy it. I still always, no matter what,

if I'm being totally honest with myself, I still like to get stronger. I'm still trying to build more muscle. I'm still still have the goal of going in that direction. It's just I'm better with it now, you know? Just as 2, 5, 5, 5, why are leg extensions a pointless exercise? What? That's one way to say it.

Leg extensions, here's what I'm going to say, something that might be a little controversial. I would say most exercises are not pointless. There is a, there can be a use for them, just like there's a, there's a use for leg extensions. But some exercises are far better than others. So they're definitely not all equal. So that may be why this person has the assumption that, or they have the understanding that leg extensions are pointless.

If I have issues with contraction of my quadricep, a leg extension type movement, whether I use a band or even a machine, it might be good to teach that quadricep how to fire. It's an isolation movement. Isolation movements are usually pretty good at that, getting that one muscle to fire so that you can incorporate it in more of a compound type movement. Do I put leg extensions and people's workouts rarely? You know, rarely do I program leg extensions to a workout. And if I do, it's usually in some kind of a superset type scenario, like leg extensions supersetted to squats.

But even then, I'll usually recommend something else that's a little bit more effective, like a Sissy squat. But there's a whole category of exercises that I would deem, you know, just less, just less effective. Just these are movements you can play with, but they're not going to do a whole life. I mean, if you took something that was totally sedatory and all you had them do was leg extensions, they would get some benefit, you know, from just doing that, but it wouldn't come close to probably about 50 other leg exercises I can think about, you know, from just doing that, but it wouldn't come close to probably about 50 other

leg exercises I can think about, you know? So, yeah, I wouldn't call it pointless. I would just say it's not. I was just curious too, because I had heard that a lot of physical therapists have moved away from rehabbing their patients with leg extensions as opposed to other methods. I didn't know exactly what those methods were,

but I know like what you're seeing makes sense as far as like, you know, reactivating and helping get activity out of the quadriceps and getting them stimulated. You know, maybe it's just working more with rubber bands and, you know, other different techniques, but something about the, the angle of it.... i've i remember rea you figure the angle on it is is definitely puts you know direct stress on the patella because of where you would the lever right uh... that's the end of that's the other end of uh... for me to your ankles in

your knee represent the levers right so you're gonna put stress in the patella doing that but i think that uh... i think more physical therapy would be because I mean, you're, if you're going through physical therapists, your job is to get this person performing in an optimal normal, you know, anatomical, you know, like a more of a lunge or something like that. Well, yeah, there's more stability. Yes. Right. And you'll never sit down. You'll never sit down in your life and have to extend your,

your, your, your leg artificial range of motion. Right? Like it's just not, it's not, it's not practical. It's not functional. It's not realistic. So if, if I'm really helping you as a therapist, I would think that I'm going to try and put you in situ. I'm going to help, and you might be limited. So obviously, that's why it would, it would play the role. You know, there's a lot of injuries that could be going on with somebody that does not allow them to do a squat.

Well, I can see some, you know, now I'm thinking about the leg extension. I could think of some areas where I could see it having some benefit. Oh, I could, I could, I use it all the time, but they're, it's very specific. Yeah, it's not, that's all it's like there's, there's, there's an intent. When I get on the leg extension machine, there's something that I am trying to accomplish by using that. I'm not going into it like thinking this is going to be a good leg workout. That's why I'm doing this machine. Well, when I'm breaking it down in my that. I'm not going into it like thinking, this is gonna be a good leg workout. That's why I'm doing this machine. Well, when I'm breaking it down in my head,

and I'm thinking of leg exercises, I can't think of any other leg exercise that puts that much full contracted, where your knee is completely extended, but you're still trying to maximally contract the quadricep in order to prevent it from flexing without activating anything else. Nothing else is like that. If I stand up with a heavy squat, I'm still order to prevent, you know, it from flexing without activating anything else. Nothing else is like that.

Like if I stand up with a heavy squat, I'm still trying to keep my knees straight, but I'm also keeping my hips straight and everything else with the quadricep, you're straightening, you're trying to hold it at the top and keep one of the only isolating ones. It's very isolating. I could see the VMO being a little more activated

if you have some issues, you know, with your inner part of your quadricep, just because of that top position. But I could also see the kneecap being in a little bit of a bad position at the very, you know, the full extension of it. I don't think it's pointless, but it's definitely. Yeah, I would say it's pointless. Somebody will have a good reason to use it. And if you have a good argument for it, sure.

You know, I've just heard, you know, I know that I have heard that some physical therapists have moved away from it, so I was like, curious about that. It's no, to me, it's no better, no worse than a bicep preacher curl. I mean, they have their place, it has its benefits, it's, does it replace your big compound movements as far as best paying for your buck? Never. And of course not, but our priority lists, it's way you know, it does it, does it replace your big compound movements as far as what a best paying for your buck never and it, of course not, but no, our priority lists that's weighed down there. Yeah, I mean, we could go a very long time. I mean, I, I will go. I think it was, I think it was a good solid six months or more without ever even using the leg extension, you know, and it's actually really interesting. And I think I shared this with the boys when

the first time I had kind of, because I was a leg extension, leg crow guy, leg press guy, all that stuff. And I would, I was not squatting like I squat. Now I'm squatting three times a week now with, and all different variations. And the carryover that I get from that to the machines is ridiculous. I'll not do one of the, any of those machines for six months, I get in there to utilize it for something. And my strength on it is ridiculously higher than what it was the last time I was I'll not do one of the any of those machines for six months. I get in there to utilize it for something and My strength on it is ridiculously higher than what it was the last time I was on there where vice versa When I was spending so much time on leg extension leg crows leg press those have took me years to you know

incrementally go up 15 pounds on the machine You know 15 more pounds of machine it took me forever to get to a certain point. And that didn't really ever affect my squat. You know, I wasn't squatting, you know, an extra 20 or 30 pounds on my squat because I was going up on that. But the other way around, it's crazy what, how drastically different it is. It's funny when we were working out,

there was that kid doing the leg press. Right next to us. Yeah, because we were squatting and we were, you know, we were getting up to the three, 400 pound range. And this kid's next to us and he's got the whole leg press, you know, decked out with weights. It's probably, I don't know, 1200 pounds on there

and he's doing his leg press. And in between sets, he walks around, you know, it's, you know, arms out to his side, puffed out. Yeah, I'm kind of, you know, I'm pretty strong. And it's, it's crazy because I know by looking at him, I can tell kind of leg work out, it does number one, I'm seeing it, but number two, I can just tell by his posture

and his development, but I can tell that the guy probably would get buried under, under two plates. 25, yeah, 225, 275, no way. He would sit down, he would, it would hurt him. He would, he would get hurt. Squash him. And here he is with the leg, you know, over a thousand pounds on the leg press.

Yeah. Just flip that around, get a guy who could squat 400 pounds. He'll be able to leg press. No problem. Well, you know, it's neat. You point out too, because I mean, I know I'm the one who always talks about studies, but it's so obvious to me when you, you can see about a body type. That's like, and the guy had a thick legs. That's the thing too. Like, so he wasn't like,

so we're not talking about we're making fun of them because this guy was like, no, he was, he was, he had some muscles. Yeah, no, he was, and he was, he was built. He didn't look like a, a guy that would, you just see his posterior. His posterior chain. I see like, you can see a guy's posterior chain that has no no different. Yeah, if you have no, like you don't have strong hips and a thick, there's that thickness to the back.

You can tell they don't squat or deadlift. Yeah. So you need everything to brace your spine. Mind to muscle. What is overtraining? Does it exist and what are possible symptoms? This is so debated right now. Yeah, big time. Oh, the common, the, the common understanding of overtraining what you'll hear in the fitness industry is that you're burning yourself out.

You're doing too much. You're overriding your body's ability to recover. First, there's two camps in this right now, right? That there's two strong camps as far as that. There is no such thing as overtraining, and everybody's a bunch of pussy's and nobody trains hard enough and enough to even come close to what it's like to overtrain. And then there's the other camp who is the other extreme of that. Thinks that there's all these careful to make sure you tighten your food.

There's people that are actually trying to measure this and figure this out. Yes. You know, with HRV and everything else, but I still feel, yeah, like it's, it is debatable. I mean, you could debate it, however, we, you know, as far as like overtraining, I definitely feel, you know, you could get to a place where you're overtraining.

Of course you can. It's like, it's obvious. How can you, how can they, how can people say that doesn't exist? I mean, I could get to a place where you're over training. Of course you can. It's like, it's obvious. How can they, how can people say that doesn't exist? I mean, I could train anybody too much. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, but here's the problem, I think, part of the problem is I think people, uh,

what's missing it before you get injured. Right. Or the mistake in, you know, poor training or poor programming for over training. Yeah. You can, you can, I could do a body, probably I could have someone do a body parts split, train at a certain intensity, and they'll feel like they're overtraining. I could increase their frequency, keep the volume the same, increase the frequency like a full body type split.

Their body starts to adapt to it and they build muscle. I see that happen all the time. We've actually increased their workload in terms of their frequency. I think we underestimate the body's ability to adapt. But what we need to realize is that the body's ability to adapt to things like frequency and volume is better than it is for intensity. Intensity is one of those interesting things where if you go all out, that's always all out.

You know what I'm saying? There's always a lot. Yeah. Like recovery is intertwined with, you know, your training, like also like, you know, training with load and intensity. It's like, you know, if you're not, if you're not combining the two in an optimal way, you're not going to receive the type of adaptation you could,

you know, you're going to be limiting yourself because you're always hammering yourself to a certain degree where you're not ever going to be able to get any more than that. You know, well, this, this is the camp I feel like I'm in. I'm in this camp that there's, you know, most people don't over train, but there is a, a, a piece of the population that do, but it's more common with like not that you're going to over train and necessarily end yourself, but you're not going to get maximum benefits because you don't understand on how to prioritize

your, what you're trying to do, you know, as far as your program design and adaptations that you're trying to go after. And that that's where the science comes into play. So can you, can you train for, you know, eight weeks, super hard, intense at, you know, CrossFit and stuff like that. Well, there you go. Here's the thing, though, with that, it's about the type of intensity of those movements,

like with power and explosiveness, and all these different type of super demanding type of exercises that will dismantle you after, you do enough of them. This is an important point, because this needs to be made. If you look at the variables, the major variables that affect your recovery ability,

frequency of exercise, how long you work out, and how hard you work out, believe it or not, you can over train much quicker with intensity than you can with the other two. I can train, I could take somebody who's deconditioned and I can train them every single day with the right intensity. I could take that person, train them just one time,

hard enough within 30 minutes to send them to the hospital. That's a possibility. So my point is intensity, that's what you really need to be careful with and that's I think where people mess up. I think that they train too hard because they go balls out, they go to the gym or they're trying to punish themselves for eating shitty or whatever. And then they're like, I can't, I got to take four days off so that I can recover. Priority. When in reality, they could still go work out, they just need

to lower the intensity dramatically and get themselves moving. It's really, but I mean, here's the thing, like moving is okay. It's just you got to adjust that intensity of how you apply. Exactly. This is why some of exactly. This is why the programs will put out. People will get blown away by the results because that's something that a lot of people don't understand. It blows my mind that we actually talk about this so much. I just told you guys recently that my cousin started Maps Red and he's a big strong guy. So he's 280, 6 foot 5, big boy, big strong guy. So he's, you know, 286 foot five, big boy, big strong boy.

And, you know, he hasn't been training for quite some time. Now he's been off for about a year. He had a major injury, actually bench pressing. He's tourist peck, and that put him out for quite a while. And he's now finally getting back into training. So he starts maps red. And now he's also a mind-pub listener. So he's heard me tell him a million times.

And he reads through it, decides that pre-phase looks like for old people or people that doesn't, you know what I'm saying? That's too easy. It's too easy looking for him. So he automatically jumps to phase one. Phase one even looks like, you know, this is gonna be pretty easy. So I'm gonna superset all these things.

He ends up fucking throwing up and he can't move today, right? And I'm like, why would you do that? Did you know better? Like, and it's my cousin, like, I mean, hack this. But that just shows you how ingrained it still isn't us to do that to ourselves and that there's there's a there's a reason why we we we we layered it like that. It's not that there isn't a place for pushing your intensity up, but there is a way to do it. So you get maximum benefits versus just going right to it. Can you do it? Absolutely. Are you going to be overtraining so much that it's going to kill you or hurt you or that? Well, probably not. There's less of a chance that it won't, but you are, you're

not getting your greatest return. You're not getting the best results you can by just going balls the wall that way. Well, it's, yes, that punishment your greatest return. You're not getting the best results you can by just going balls the wall that way. Well, it's that punishment sort of mentality. We're just trying to tell everybody like there's a smarter way to do it. You can get results by just punishing yourself, but how long term is that? Well, I mean, look, when we look at intensity,

intensity is always based off of your perception, right? So if I go all out, I'm giving my all today. If I go all out tomorrow, I'm giving my all out at that particular time tomorrow. With this, there's no scale and how I can scale that and move that up and get my body to adapt. Does that make sense? For example, if I'm training with frequency and I'm saying, okay, this week I hit my chest twice a week, tomorrow I'm going to add a third day a week. I can keep that at a constant, that third day, until I get adapt and then I can add a fourth day.

And believe it or not, your body has an incredible ability to adapt to frequency, to the point where you could work out muscles every single day. It'll take you time to work up to it, but you can do that. But see with intensity, if I'm always going balls out, I'm always going balls out. There's no measurable way where I can see that,

okay, I'm only adding an incremental amount for the next three weeks and then next week, I'm only gonna balls out. There's no measurable way where I can see that, okay, I'm only adding an incremental amount for the next three weeks and then next week, I'm only gonna add a different. You can't, and so over, this is why intensity is so closely linked to overtraining and the other two aren't. Now that's not to say that people don't, I know people who work out too much

will work out too long, but it's less common than just. Well, what's most common for you guys? What do you guys deal with when you're training somebody? What's most common do you see with clients? If I'm seeing someone in this category of people, like the build muscle type category and stuff like that, I see intensity to be used too much. Yeah.

In the regular world where I get a lot of my clients, you know, the people who are in their 40s, 50s and 60s who are executives, I'll see people do both either too much or too hard. And this is where I'll get the female executive who will see me who's just, she's been doing an hour and a half a cardio day. Two cardio sessions. It's just too much anti-hard.

Yeah, we got to back it all off. But a lot of, sometimes the first thing I do because they're so addicted to exercise is rather than having them back off in the mount, I just back off the intensity. I start with that first. Okay, that's what I want you to keep working out as much as you are. Don't work out as hard. Let's take it from there. So, Ecto Josh, if you had to pick between squats and deadlifts, which would you choose?

Two very, very fundamental exercises. Two, I would consider... Are we picking for our favorite or what is the most optimal for you to do as close ideal for you? If I had to pick for the rest of my life and I had to eliminate one of them, as much as I love deadlifting, as much as it feels natural to me,

as much as I'm strong in that exercise, I would have to pick the squat. The squat is fundamental that they both are. The squat has much more carryover to other exercises. If my squat goes, let me put it this way. If I stop deadlifting and my squat goes up 50 pounds, I'll still get strong on my deadlift. If I stop squatting and my deadlift goes up 50 pounds,

I might not add any weight to my squat. That's the truth. There's a lot more carryover from one to the other than there's from from. That would be, now we talked, we haven't talked about this long time. That would be a cool study to do. That would be a unique to see, to see how, what a difference that would be. I think you're right for sure, squat, but I think more just because it has more carryover into real life.

Yeah. Like, you know, I'm saying like, it's, it's a deadlift, a deadlift versus a, it's hard. They're both so far. It's hard because, yeah, because you could argue that, you know, you're really, I mean, picking anything up any time you're picking something up, you're basically emulating some form of a deadlift, you know, so, and that you do that all day long. But you, you would do, I would argue the squat because just the way we move and we walk and we run and it'll reinforce the strength there as far as like all these mechanics are concerned, I think a little bit better. But as far as like them having their both their

equal parts, like that's hard to decide. It's king and queen right there. Those are the two most first squat, but you know, you could make an argument for deadlift for sure. Well, I mean, so power lifters will actually do this. There's certain there's some power lifter routine that will tell power lifters to not deadlift like a week or two before the event, but to continue squatting heavy.

I've personally experienced this. If my squat goes up, my deadlift goes up, period. I've had my deadlift go up without my squat going up. That's from a personal, you know, from my own personal experience. But I mean, as much as I love deadlifting squats, they just... Well, that would be, you know, we kind of need to see them because right now I told you I've stopped deadlifting for a couple weeks now. And I've been squatting and my squat is my squat strength is up right now. It's up. Your deadlift will be up. I'm, yeah, it'll be interesting to see when I when I bring it back. Well, maybe two because like I guess squat kind of covers both anterior post here a little bit more.

It does. It's more balanced. It's better balanced. That was what I was looking for. It is. It's more balanced. And that's what makes it the king. You know, I'm saying that's also there's also. I mean, you can look at you can look at the range of motion that you can achieve with a squat. Deadlift, you can get a pretty good range of motion, but it's not quite as much. You're not folding your body up as much as you are with a full squat. Also, as you get older,

your ability to get into squat is very, very closely tied to your health. Your ability to deadlift, it would be, they're equally hard. If I took a deconditioned older person, I would need to teach them both, but it would be much easier to get them to deadlift, it would be, they're equally hard. If I took a deconditioned older person, I would need to teach them both, but it would be much easier to get them to deadlift than it would be to do a squat,

to do a full standing squat with comfort. It's just one of those movements that you do. Oh, see, I think that statement's not all the way true, because I think, getting, I'm not coming out. Now with tons of weight, just having them get bed down to pick something up, that's so much harder than getting someone to sit down to a squat. My god Absolutely. Well, I think I don't know teaching a deadlift to somebody who's a lot older could be more challenge

Just as challenging if not more challenge. You think of yeah, I know I see most like old people like getting injured Is they're going to pick something up and then coming up, you know, I don't know Because they're squatting by going to take a dump, you know anyway Yeah, well, you know, I don't know, because they're squawting by going to take a dump, you know, anyway. So yeah, well, you know, yeah, that's why teaching a deadlift, I mean, they haven't fired. I think more from a neurological point. Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. Their ability to use their spine, their, your ability to do that. That says you get older versus a year, but because you probably still, I'll tell you what, I've trained quite a few. Yeah, no, this is your area. I mean, I've actually trained.

Over the age of 65. I would go to my goal when I train them, like it is with anybody, is to get them to be able to do a proper squat, a proper deadlift, a proper overhead press. These are the three fundamental movements that I, my goal is always to get them there. Do I ever, do I always achieve it?

No, I have clients in their 80s who will probably never do a barbell squat or, you know, that kind of stuff. But the goal is always to get them there. So I'm always correcting and balances and strengthening things to try and get them to do that. And inevitably, I get every single time I can get them to do a deadlift with good form with very light weight. And I were going heavy, but I can get them to deadlift with good form or decent form more than I can get them to the point where they can, you know, do just get put a barbell on their back or even stick on their back

and maintain good posture and go down with good range of motion. That's like the ultimate, man. If I can get some of the squat, I know I can get them to deadlift, you know what I mean? It's the other way around, sometimes. Yeah. Can you see that?

Oh yeah, but I mean, like I said, you're definitely, you've probably trained more elderly people than any of us. So I just, it seems like the deadlift is a much more technical, the squat, I think, even as bad and poorly as most people do it, it seems more natural for the average human to do a squat versus a deadlift, you know. It's a, it's a, it's a more of a fundamental movement. That's, that's your right.

And that's why I think it should be trained. That should be the most important thing that you're trying to do. I think we're all, I think we all agree. It's the king, you know, it's the king and close close. A sad is that makes me. I know and I'm a deadlift guy all day too. I'd rather say that but in reality, it's more important to squat. Well, hey, check this out. If you like mind pump, leave us a five star rating review on iTunes and please go to mindpumpmedia.com. Check out some of the testimonials we have on some of our awesome programs.

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