Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 365: The Big Sugar/Heart Disease Cover Up

Episode Date: September 15, 2016

The sugar industry paid Harvard nutritionists to pad research to support its interests in the 1960s, according to a paper published Monday in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine. In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin discuss this scandal, the true effects of sugar and better alternatives. Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you with a new video on our new YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint AND the Sexy Athlete Mod (The RGB Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get your Kimera Koffee, Mind Pump's first official sponsor, at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

You know what makes Adam moist? I can think of a few things. He loves that word. He loves reviews. Yeah. He likes lots of reviews. If you want Adam to leave a wet spot in the chair. Review this motherfucker. Leave reviews at iTunes.

Five Star. Yeah, we forgot to actually do this yesterday when we were supposed to. What? Do the iTunes shirt giveaway. Oh, the shirt giveaway. I was just talking about reviews. Oh yeah. That's part of it. You know, you leave a great review. We look at the reviews and we decide which ones we like the best

Adam decides depending on his moistness. Yeah, he has a moist moist moistness meter. The moistness meter. That's disgusting. It's like a barometer, but it's in his crotch. Oh. So now that you know that, do you really want a shirt? So we had 16 reviews in the past week a bad it's good That's not bad at all average average is back up. Yeah, it's not bad on up at all So we had Hoboken howie Turner amalook KSS fate and K, S, S, Fate, and Tim, S, P, 77.

Come up with some better names, guys. Oh my God. They did great reviews, so let's not get too far. I'm gonna, as long as they do that, that's all the matters. That's all the matters. So send your name, the one I just read, to iTunes at MindPumpMedia.com, your shirt size, your shipping address, and I'll get that right out to you. We love you. Here it comes. If you wanna pump your body and, your shipping address, and I'll get that right out to you. We love you.

Here it comes. If you wanna pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Listen, you're gonna hear us on this next episode, talk about sugar and carbohydrates again because some new information just came out showing some pretty crazy corruption in determining some of the

guidelines that we've been given for food. So we get a little heated, but anytime we talk about nutrition, we want to let people know that we have a nutrition guide and a fasting guide That's available at mine pump media.com and the reason why we want you know that is because You're gonna get a lot of information in this episode But it's not gonna give you all the information you need not even close to all the information you need to construct a healthy Diet for yourself. That's what the nutrition survival guide is going on, right? That's a foundational program. Right. It helps you break down your macros, your calories, and then the fasting guide is in there, and it teaches you how to utilize intermittent fasting

properly to accelerate fat loss and prove longevity, all those wonderful things. Both available together at a massive discount, I believe both of them together what what's the what's the price on that fifty seven dollars one million dollars no fifty seven bucks for both uh... which is uh... huge discount mind pump media dot com is the nutrition survival guide fasting bundle you know i like to do sometimes for the listeners is i'd like to paint the picture right i I like to paint the picture. Okay. Right. I like to paint the picture like happy trees.

Yeah. Like like so that they know the conditions that were working. Little swirly. Yeah. Clouds. So that they know they have the conditions we're working in. Like Doug right now is draped and a triple triple XL sweater that is not Adam went and got out of his truck. Yeah, but what was he wearing before that? For the last second.

It's just, he looks like he's wearing a blanket. One of those things that a poncho. It's like a poncho. Then Justin, Justin literally has, his nipples are poking out of his flannel. I mean, the razor sharp. And it's now starting to break through the flannel. Yeah. My penis...

I never see those like number two pencil. That's what it looks like. It looks like. Yeah. My penis has now retreated to the insides of my pelvis. That's how fucking cold it is in here. Meanwhile, Adam, by the way, we can see our breath. That's how cold it is. Meanwhile, Adam.

The texture of that. Adam is so happy. I am. Finally. He's so happy. He's how cold it is. Meanwhile Adam. Oh, the factory of that. Adam is so happy. I am. Finally. He's so happy. He's like, it's the right temperature in this motherfucker. He's like a fucking bear. Yeah.

I think you need to go to the doctor and figure out why, why you like it that cold. Well, I think you and Doug are the leanest. So that's probably why you guys are so cold. Just as cold. Yeah, I can't, I don't know. Just as excuse. What are you talking about?

He's, he's, he's, he's's He's figured tips are purple. He is wearing cold He is like it was like dicks. He is wearing shorts, and he does look a little cool. I'm not fat purple. I'm not cool That was it. That was the last straw. That was the last bad joke tired us. He's got angry He's well-insulated. That's all Padded for destruction. He's up. Yeah, I'm fucking kill people. It's so cold in here, dude.

It feels great. Finally, I feel like I can finally wear pants in here and not feel like I'm sweating. Really? Yeah, no, it actually, and I'm drinking a nice cold coffee over here, so... I don't think it's cold. I don't feel bad, it's just my fingertips.

Yeah, I don't have no feelings. I don't feel bad, I just can't feel. Why don't you have the icicles? Why don't you have, why don't you it's cool. I don't feel bad. It's just my fingertips. Yeah. I don't feel bad. I just can't feel it. Why don't you have Doug. Why don't you have Doug turn those two sons on it? It gets so goddamn hot. Oh, the recording lights. Yeah, I do.

I still right underneath that thing. Man, do you know how hard I have to get the chills for my leg hairs to stand up? Because those are pretty long. I look, it's crazy. I look like my legs look bigger as a result. Well, when you got up and got ready to come over here and got dressed, the clouds and the windy, it's cold outside, dude. Bro, I think it's mental. It's 10 degrees outside. It's like even more cold in here. That's like a fail. It is a fail on the, it's once again, this, I can't wait to be out of here. We're only got, what do we have, 30 days left or less,

not even. I think I know why the bearded lady Thanks for rose a beer sabotage Keep your face on that your theory now. You like how to change my kushy they can hear us I don't like saying that I feel like it's gonna come back in haunt us. How's it gonna happen? See? I'm gonna see her before huh? Have you seen her before? Well, yeah, that's why I call her the bearded lady I'm not so I don't quit saying that dude Why cuz she's gonna haunt us? I don't know her name. So how am I supposed to refer to her? I don't know. Refer to her as a lady next door or something. There's another lady next door too though.

Yeah, you need to know which one I'm talking about. Yeah. It's not the fat one. It's the one with the beard. It's the Natter. You're a bad person. I just I just I just I just pissed everybody on his own. You know the other day We did the the episode on carbs. Why do people get so emotional? Defensive. They do, they get so defensive. How they react like maniacs. It's weird, it's almost food is religion to people.

I love carbs too here. I think I was the first one to admit that. It's not like we said carbs are gross. Yeah, no of course They taste good. It's just like why are we eating so many of them? Yeah I think it's religion It's almost like you know how they always say when you go to people's houses don't talk about religion Don't talk about politics and don't talk about nutrition has to be there too because put that in there people get so Angry and it's because you're attacking their core, you know what I mean?

Like if I told someone, hey, this thing that- Little rituals. Yeah, this thing that you're eating every single day, you probably shouldn't eat it's not good for like, fuck you man. Yeah. Are you dis-everyday? I feel it's like it's more like-

Like, must be gay. I feel like it's almost like- Can I talk about religion? Less of religion and more like addiction, like an addict. If you're talking to it, trying to tell somebody that they have an addiction to something and how defensive addiction, like an addict. If you're talking to it, trying to tell somebody that they have an addiction to something and how defensive they get, you know, try telling somebody that they're an alcoholic because they drink too much or

telling somebody they have a cigarette smoking problem or they have a drug problem. Just occasionally do it, okay? Yeah, right? Right away the excuses come out or the, you know, I'm gonna die anyways. It may as well enjoy it on the way out, type of deal. Like you just haven't forbid we talk about carbohydrates being fucking unhealthy. I'm just, I mean, always, always said with that, don't say that. Always said was that the overconsumption of carbohydrates is highly likely to be the main culprit

to the obesity and health epidemic that concentrated versions even worse in the sugar. And it's really not, it's really not a, you can't really convince me otherwise. It's really not a controversial statement. It's actually,

it's becoming pretty accepted and who's getting angry are people who profit from selling products that are carb heavy and from agencies, government agencies which are at the very least embarrassed, they're embarrassed that they've promoted the exact opposite for so long.

And now why are they embarrassed? Because they get called out, bro. They got caught. They're getting caught, dude. Did you see what just came out? Put on display. In New York Times and dragged around. It just came out. I'm gonna Put on display. New York Times and dragged around. It just came out.

I'm gonna pull it up. New York Times September 13th. Right. This is the shit that fuels me and fires me up, dude. Now there is now very hard evidence that the sugar industry, if you will, paid scientists. Are you gonna read the article for us? It's a pretty long article.

We'll give it, give us a people. The internal sugar industry documents recently discovered by a researcher at the University of California and published Monday in JAMA Internal Medicine suggests that five decades of research into the role of nutrition and heart disease, including many of today's dietary recommendations, if not all of them, may have been largely shaped by their sugar industry.

And it says, Oh my, could you just pause there for a second? What have we been fucking saying for the last year and a half? All these, I think the people, if there's anybody that ever debates with us or argues that it's they try and throw these studies right here, the studies that are, or we are finding out just a bunch, which we knew always.

We knew all, we've been trying to tell everybody else this that all these studies that we see are so fucking biased because of who's funding them. Well, it says here that the professor who, research this says that they were able to derail the discussion about sugar for decades, the documents show that a trade group called the Sugar Research Foundation, let me pause for a second. discussion about sugar for decades. The documents show that a trade group called

the Sugar Research Foundation, let me pause for a second. Anytime there's something, especially government with a name, it says something, it's the opposite. You know what I'm saying? So it's good. Like the Patriot Act, it's not to help Patriots, it's actually to eavesdrop on your phone

and do all kinds of crazy shit. You know, anytime they name something, something like the peace, like this is the peace act, oh, looks like we're going to war, you know what I mean? It's always opposite. So it says, and by the way, the Sugar Research Foundation today is known as the Sugar Association, paid three Harvard scientists, the equivalent of about $50,000

to publish a 1967 review of research on sugar fat and heart disease. That wasn't very much money. Yeah. You went to Harvard, the best you can get is 50 grand for putting up some bullshit. Well, if you're a scientist and they're like, hey, do a quick, you know, whatever, you want me to say some bullshit on my radio show. I'm a, you have to pay me more 50 grand.

I mean, I bet we can get a lot of people say a lot of things for a 50 grand, but anyway, the studies used in the review were handpicked by the sugar group and the article, which was published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, which minimized the link between sugar and health and heart health and cast as persons on the role of saturated fat. So this, and it's funny, This is right around the time that That the government you know guidelines started to shift and started to tell people to reduce their fat intake in particular They're saturated fat intake which then of course

resulted in the increase of Carbohydrate intake and of course then they set out the guidelines of the food pyramid Which the food pyramid tells you to eat something like 60% of your calories from carbohydrates You know from processed carbohydrates or what they call grains or whole grains when reality is just processed the shit It's pretty it's pretty insane. You also can see the connections between some of the largest You know makers of foods like Coca-Cola McDonald's You know Monsanto all these big companies and how connected they are to these agencies that tell us what we should

And should need right. It's pretty it's pretty scary stuff very very scary stuff. There's this report that I posted on the forum, and it's the American Society for Nutrition, and the companies that they're closely connected to are Coca-Cola, Kellogg's, Mars, Craft, McDonald's, Monsanto, PepsiCo. These are the companies that pay them significant amount of money per year to help fund them. And you can't tell me that they don't influence their guidelines and what they tell us to eat. It's, sugar is a big problem.

And processed carbohydrates are a big fucking problem. And when it comes to fat, you know, not all fats are created equal, but the natural ones are fine. They're good for even saturated fats, even saturated fats, which has been demonized for so long. Some saturated fats are downright healthy. You know, like you look at the medium chain triglycerides found in coconut oil. I mean, look at studies done on that. It's good for you. You know, so it's pretty crazy stuff. You know, we it's pretty crazy stuff. You know, we were told dietary cholesterol was bad

and you know, lower our fat intake and now we have this epidemic. Well, it's just like, look at those companies and like they're selling sugar, water. You know, where can they go from there? You know, what backup plan do they have other than to try and pay to influence people? Otherwise, yeah, double down.

You have to. You have no other option because you have, this is your entire company and your humongous. What you have to understand is that these massive, massive companies, which are arguably companies like this and what really run the country. Because we have, what we have here is, and I wanna be clear here, I'm not demonizing corporations and I'm not demonizing government, okay. The demon is the partnership between the two.

When you start to have the referee, when the referee becomes- Say that one more time. Say that one more time. Say that one more time. Say that one more time so you make that clear to people because I feel like this is somewhere where people get misguided from us. Yeah, because on that we're also more just

right because on one hand you're going to have people are like corporations are evil and in the other hand you'll have people like government is equal evil. It's actually both. It's the partnership between the two because a large company and corporation really um they can you could you could be a big company and be a good person and be a good company. You can have to be a shitty company, but you can't force anybody to do anything. You can only persuade them. Government, on the other hand,

can force you to do shit through fines and taxes and government sets out guidelines, which when Americans or when anybody looks at, like if Coca-Cola sends out this press report and says, this is the healthy way to eat. Everybody's gonna be like, well, I'm gonna look at that with a grain of salt because it's- It's by course.

But if the government puts something out, a lot of people assume, oh, this is unbiased, it's our own government, but they're looking out for a best interest as a human being. But in reality, they're just partners, they're just partners in it. So here's another example because right now, a big, a lot of these companies are getting a losing share value because people are starting to move away from, quote, unquote, processed

foods. And so, these companies come together, and they're, and remember, these are, you know, if you combine the value of these companies, it's in the hundreds of billions, if not trillion, you know, dollars. So, they spend a lot of money. combined the value of these companies, it's in the hundreds of billions, if not trillion, dollars. So they spend a lot of money. They are smarter than you are in terms of influencing you and getting you to do what they want.

They're very smart with how they position their arguments and how they put out their information. So their PR agencies, which represents all these companies, comes out and says, process foods aren't bad for you. Let me explain why. 700,000 years ago, meat was added to the human diet, which resulted in cooking and drying, insulting and smoking. Those are examples of food processing.

In the 19th century, we canned and pasteurized foods. Those are also called food processing. We also freeze and refrigerate and clean food. That's all food processing. So processing is not bad. And what they're doing is they're arguing something completely different and trying to make it sound like it's all food processing. So processing is not bad. And what they're doing is they're arguing something completely different and trying to make it sound like it's the same thing. Like cleaning your food and freezing it or cooking your food is the same thing as a box of whatever

that has a shelf life of 5,000 years and it looks nothing like the bunch of chemicals that help to you know at last longer. With an ingredients list of words that you can't pronounce. Exactly, exactly. Or even create artificial sweeteners and things and the way they'll promote them. And you're starting to see them now, start to push them more as things for health.

Like watch what happens, mark my words, as more and more people become hip to the negative effects of sugar, you're going to see a lot of these companies now start to push artificial sweeteners. Oh, yeah. And then they'll start to push natural, natural non-choloric sweeteners like Stevia, which is a better alternative, but it's still not the best thing in the world because anything you eat with that causes that sweet signal does cause certain chemical changes in the body.

But they're always trying to save their asses when it comes to money, and they will partner with these government agencies, which will then support them by putting information out that makes them look better than they really are. I mean, it's no coincidence that the, that countries that dramatically start to increase their soft drink consumption, look at Mexico, by the way.

Mexico, you know, 30 years ago, obesity was non-existent in Mexico. Today, Mexico's obesity rate, I believe is higher than America's. And if you look at their, Wow, really? And if you look at, or on pace to beat us, and if you look at their, wow, really? And if you look at, or on pace to beat us. And if you look at their obesity rates,

their obesity rates exploded and the graph matches exactly with their soda consumption. And Mexicans, ooh, those are chattas. And Mexicans are some of the highest consumers of, or consume some of the highest amounts of soda. Soda has become a staple beverage.

It's all the water. It's so much sweeter than what we have up here. It's crazy. On the water, shit down there, that's why. Well, that's what I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, yeah, you can't trust the water. Yeah, right, you can sherry.

Yeah, you get your burrito and tacos and you want to wash it down with something you can't have no water. So it's so that it's soda or a fucking medelo, right? Maybe that's real. I love this. This is so, only I love this dirt. Here we go Adam.

You can get away with it. Because you're so Irish. Yeah. No, no. But I think it's, I mean, this is, this is all real important stuff to, to pay attention to. If you're gonna avoid or look at a macronutrient

with extreme scrutiny, I mean, you should look them all with scrutiny, but look at sugar and carbohydrates. That's what's causing a lot of the problems that we're seeing today, a lot of health problems. Well, I want to elaborate a little bit on this and our personal experience, because I think if I were to rate the top three to five, like times in my fitness career where my paradigm was shattered. This has to be top three for me, as far as like game changer is how I ate and how I taught my clients to eat going forward. I mean, majority of my career, I was the opposite of this.

I mean, carbs were the staple of everybody's meal plan. Unless you were diabetic or you had something, if you had some special condition or a thyroid condition, for the most part, almost everybody's diets that I had put together would be 60 to 70% carbohydrate intake. And this is your fuel. Your carbs are your fuel, and this is what your body needs this. If you wanted to run efficiently,

you need carbohydrates. And especially if you're working out hard and you're doing any sort of that. First thing in the morning, you overload your body with carbs. That's the most important thing. You know, the pancakes. Meal the day is to start off.

We take breakfast. Oatmeal, oatmeal and way protein. Process way protein was like my staple go to the not only did I do myself, I taught my clients for years. I mean, so for me, this is a big one because I anytime I feel like we can talk about this and say, hey, listen, man, even I was, you know, I was convinced that this was the way we should eat. And it's amazing once I made that switch over and realized that, you know, I was convinced that this was the way we should eat and it's amazing once I made that switch over and realize that You know fat isn't isn't bad

It isn't as this how we've demonized it for the last decade and when I eat like when I literally like target My fat and my protein and like just really trying to avoid carbs at all costs. But when I want fruit, I have fruit. Whenever I have a meal, I try and get a variety of vegetables and color in there. It really is easy. I really don't find myself, you know, feeling like I'm restricting or I don't feel like I'm having to count calories and macros. I literally eat and enjoy myself and eat till I'm full. And by just focusing on that, as soon as carbs enter the equation, it's a whole new ball game. I mean, and I've been tracking and being careful to not over consume becomes, it has become a huge. That's the key. It's the over consumption because, and it can be very individual in terms

of what that means from person to person. But most people are pretty sedentary. So over-consuming something like carbohydrates, especially processed ones is pretty easy. You don't need much to kind of get into that bad area. Now if your calories are really low, you get away with more. But even then, there's healthier ways to do it.

But it's important to look at the, who puts the information out and how But it's important to look at the, you know, who puts the information out and how heavily it's influenced by lobby groups and stuff. For example, if you look at, you know, there's, there's, because right now, which just came out with this, vegan associations, and I don't know the names of them, but these are big organizations are coming out, right? And they're saying, no, the meat and dairy industry want you to think. Because now they're trying to create their own. That's great, they're on.

And I'm sure the meat and dairy industry have a large influence also on things. But you want to look at where this information's coming from and organizations that promote vegan or vegetarian lifestyle are motivated by saving the lives of animals, not motivated by saving the lives of animals, not motivated by promoting the nutritional wellness of humans. So you always have to look at the motivation, right?

What are they motivated by? And vegan associations are very open and blatant about the fact that their motivation is not to promote a healthier lifestyle for humans. It's to stop humans for meeting animals. And so they're going to either grab an old science or again, cherry-pick data to show, you know, certain things may be bad. Like, for example, if we feed people lots of high fat diet, but the fatty acid profile is all over the place, and it's not balanced or so many, it's lots of omega-6 fatty acids,

then they're going to have very bad health. And it would be easy for me to say, look, high fat diet is bad for you. So I want to be clear, it's not, you know, it's not as cut and dry as eating more fat, not eating carbs or eating less carbs and no sugars. You still have to eat healthy. No matter what, you still have to eat healthy

and follow those guidelines of eating a diet that is mostly whole natural foods. I think it's important for people to understand though this little simple tip and that's understanding that every time that you consume these carbohydrates, and even when we can, a lot of people don't realize this either when you have like artificial sweetener. So if you have like a diet coke or this happens also where our

blood sugar and gets spiked and insulin gets released. And what happens, not only does that put us in this fat storing mode, but it also kicks up your appetite. So that's the hardest part about when you like, you know, even if you're you're staying in control. And this is why I now teach clients like we're avoiding carbs for the most part, you know? And when I say that, I mean like all everything like your pasta, your rice, your bread, all that's, there's no, we don't need that. I can find all the other nutrients

through other foods through, and I'm not avoiding fruit, fruits definitely abundant in all my- Vegetables are there. Yeah, and vegetables are in there like crazy. So, you have, and I want you to eat a ton of different greens and veggies and colors when we're eating your vegetables. And then fruits, I'm targeting berries as my primary source of fruits and then for variety

and we're going to add other stuff. But if you focus just on those, those main carbohydrates and enjoy them to death and primarily focus on your fats and then your proteins. It's actually not that difficult. You'd be surprised on how satiated you feel and how, how good you feel. Well, it's funny. You know, what, what they're starting to talk a lot about now, a lot of new sciences coming out, um, on how probably one of the more important things we should focus on for longevity is the health of how probably one of the more important things we should focus on for longevity is the health of the mitochondria of ourselves.

Now for those of you without, you know, just don't know what a mitochondria is, it's the energy producer of the cell. It's what produces, yeah, it's what produces ATP which fuels every cell in your body. And in the presence of glucose, it creates free radicals in your cells. And so it can cause damage. And in the past, we said, well, if you eat foods that are high in antioxidants, it reduces this oxidation that happens through this process. But studies are showing that increasing at antioxidant out intake doesn't really do a whole lot, probably because it's not getting

to where it needs to get to. But one thing that you can do that dramatically increases the efficiency and effectiveness of mitochondria reduces the oxidation rate or the free radical production is allow your body sometimes, you don't have to do this all the time but sometimes let your cells run on ketones which comes from a high fat low carb or no carbohydrate diet or a fasted state or fasted ketones is what's going to kind of tip you into that ketones be burned very very clean in the body running on ketones increases the number of mitochondria

within cells which is a good thing You've got more of these energy producers. It's neuroprotective on the brain. They're finding all these degenerative disorders, especially these neurodegenerative disorders from MS to Alzheimer's, dementia, you name it, and they're finding that putting people on very low carbohydrates or supplementing with exogenous ketones or putting them on a ketogenic diet shows tremendous benefits. And all of those, they've even done this on animals where there's a genetic disorder. I can't remember the name of it that causes accelerated aging. And I can't remember that maybe you've seen on TV where a human will have it, where it's like a little kid, but they look like an old man or whatever.

Anyhow, they'll- They're human buttons, interesting. Yeah, and I don't remember the name of it, but they'll have animals that they, you know, genetically engineered to have this particular disorder. And then they'll have them eat a ketogenic type diet, and it'll remedy a lot of the symptoms that come from this genetic disorder. And then there's also the controversial, which is becoming less controversial now, but it's still controversial position on cancer. That cancer may in fact not be so much of a genetic issue, but may in fact be a metabolic

disease where you have these... Well, it makes sense when you think that sugar treats it. Well, you may have these genes that it's this blueprint that doesn't necessarily get activated until certain things happen. And the way you keep it from getting activated would be to eat a diet that encourages healthy mitochondria. And what all cancer cells have in common is that they can't run on ketones. They have to run on glucose. And so there's all these things that are starting, all these dominoes that just kind of start to line up.

And humans have eaten carbohydrates forever. We can metabolize them. That's a preferred fuel source. If I eat fat and carbs, my body will go to glucose first. However, carbohydrates are rare. They're rare in nature. They're just not common. I want you to tell me, where the hell I'm gonna find

a dietress. What, it's like what? It's like nitrous. Yeah, what do you know? You put it in your carbohydrate, or your carbohydrate, your coffee. No, no, no I'm talking about an engine. Oh, I see. So you put nitrous into primate right and it gets this like a immediate like explosive reaction and you know the the entire engine just runs like crazy fast on

that and it's just it's just a high performance fuel versus like something that's gonna burn a little slower. Okay, that's actually a good analogy. Yeah, that was really hard for me to get out. But it is shit. I was like, where are we going with this? Go ahead. But it's, they're relatively rare in nature.

I mean, where would you find, tell me, forget, okay, let's pretend we're not growing our own plants, right? So this is before the agricultural revolution, which, by the way, if we count the agricultural revolution, that probably makes up less than 5% of all human history. It's probably like 1%. But anyway, so most of human history we lived without. Say that again and explain that. For most of human history, we did not understand how to grow and sustain crops. That was called the agricultural revolution. When we figured that out, it dramatically changed the way humans lived in eight. But for most of human evolution, we didn't eat that way. We were hunter-gatherers. Tell me in nature, natural now, not that we planted them and that

we made our crops, where would you find a diet that's 60% carbohydrates? You know what, though, where would you find that? When we use this argument, it frustrates me because I'm not like from yours, but from people that want to debate this because they want to debate that like, that makes no sense why would we want to be anything like our ancestors in cavemen? No. We're so much more intelligent. We've evolved as humans. Science has evolved

us in nutrition and technology and everything else. So using that, you know, that's an argument as well as far as like, you know, building the surplus. So this is, so this is, so this is people make that argument. And it's the wrong argument. It is. I want that's why I brought it up. I agree with you. But I, you know, that that this is what they say. Yeah, this is what they're gonna say to you. Yeah. Yeah. No no no They're they're trying to that's almost like a what do they call that a straw man argument. Yes Here's the thing I'm not saying we need to live like caveman What I'm saying is and which is pretty established is that humans evolved without that most part eating a certain way,

and so those of us that proliferated and survived eating that way probably utilized food and lived better that way, and those of us that couldn't did weren't able to reproduce and die. So that's the basic theory behind evolution. And then they argue back to you that, well, you know, 500 years ago, the man only lived to 40 years old

or whatever was the average age. So why would I want 500 years ago, the man only lived to 40 years old or whatever was the average age. So why would I want to eat like they eat and only live to 40 years old? No, we have, we have definitely made huge in, in Rose and survival, but mainly because we've learned how to treat infection and cure disease. And use, yeah, cure disease, treat infection

and we're no longer malnourished. Those were three big things that we solved. People died all the time of malnourishment, not having food. Well, that's not a problem anymore, right? People died all the time of an infection. People don't die so much from infection anymore. We have any bothers. So which, I think that's the good point where you find the common ground with this person.

So we can argue that, okay, so science is involved. We've learned how to grow these crops and mass produce these things. So we no longer have to worry about, you know, dying of starvation. Now, the other side of that coin is that, well, you know, like anything else, it seems like with us, you know, we go from one extreme to the other extreme, right? So we went from, you know, we're going to die of starvation and we didn't have enough food. So now we found a way to modify food and make it in in huge quantities enough to feed everybody and we've made all this fake shit from from corn and Now it's that extreme spectrum. So we we've definitely taken it all the way I feel like we've really pressed it with all these new ailments and diabetes and obesity and all these things that happen as a result of just this influx of surplus

and carbohydrates and just easy access to fuel. But long term, now we're starting to see more chronic things as a result of eating this way. And it's like you can't just put that off and ignore it. We're doing so much better now, whereas we do have these ailments, we do have these sicknesses to address. Right. And I'll use another analogy that's kind of similar. Humans also evolved being very, very active. Okay. We evolved moving and walking and running and climbing because we had to. Now we don't have to anymore. We can sit down and not have to move anymore. Now in the past, humans died all the time from overexertion.

They died all the time from breaking a leg or tearing a muscle or twisting a knee or whatever, because they moved all the time. Today people don't die from that anymore, but now we're dying from the other end of the spectrum, which is we're not moving at all. So the same holds true for diet. Our bodies evolve, moving, evolved,

eating a certain way. That doesn't mean we're gonna emulate exactly what they did because nobody would wanna do that, but we need to learn from it and see that the body operates better. Well, I think now, yeah, exactly. Like, not having that kind of activity in the workforce, like we have to be even more mindful about what we eat

as a result of that, because, you know, it is, like it's such a huge part of our day where we're sitting down, we're contributing to, you know, our work, we're getting things done, but it's still very, very sedentary. And so you can't just make up for that by going to the gym for one hour. Like you have to be mindful about your nutrition

even more so. Well, you have to be choosy because your options are so wide and available. I don't think you were choosy, you know, a thousand years ago, two thousand years ago. I know. You weren't really, it's hard about it. Yeah, you're not really choosy, right?

You're like, it's food. I'm like, eat it. It's just food, I'm hungry, let's shove it down the goal. I mean, it is funny it's hard about it. Yeah, you're not really choosy, right? You're like, it's food. I'm like, eat it. It's just food, I'm hungry. Let's shove it down the goal. I mean, it is funny if you think about it, we actually have to make time to go to something called a gym to do physical activity, which I think people would have been blown away.

Had we shown them? Yeah, we're one of us. Had we shown them some of that stuff. So, I mean, it's important to know some of this stuff and to pay attention and educate yourself accordingly. And I'd like to address a few confusions, too. People think that a low carbohydrate diet is a high meat diet. It's not. It doesn't have to be.

You can eat a lot of meat or you cannot eat a lot of meat. There are high fat plant sources. Seeds and nuts. There are seeds nuts, you know, plant sources. Seeds and nuts. There are seeds, nuts, avocados, and coconut, and there are healthy oils like, you know, that are cold pressed, like olive oil. And if you want to eat meat, you can. I also want to be clear that a low carbohydrate diet

is not a high protein diet. That it doesn't mean you eat a shit ton of protein. It means you eat a lot of fat. Protein is kept kind of. It's very hard for people to understand that. Right. They think low carb. And I know that because I know how hard it was for me as a trainer.

Right. You know what I'm saying? And I know if it was hard for me because how much we've been indoctrined by, you know, stay away from the fat, stay away from the fat. And even when you hear fat, we still think, you know, well, okay, avocado. Yeah, that's a peanut butter. Okay, that's okay. You know, but a peanut butter, okay, that's okay, but not oil, that's crazy, or bacon,

or some cheese or something, no, we couldn't, right, we can't eat that fat, right? Yeah, no, no, I would say. I would say yes. Yeah, I mean, No, exactly, I mean, you're far better off going that direction than you are eating these sugars. It's actually not as hard as you think.

People listening right now who are like, oh my God, I don't want to eat that much meat and stuff. You don't have to, as a matter of fact, a proper way to eat a lower carbohydrate higher fat diets that have more of a moderate protein intake. That's if you're kind of an athlete, you're pushing those levels. If you're not, or you just don't really care about squeezing out every little bit of performance, then you can consume much lower protein intakes. I mean, 70 to 100 grams of protein a day is plenty for most people. I'm even talking about 200 pound male athletes and you know, it's usually enough.

I mean, would they get some benefit from having a little more? Probably, but for most of you, it's not that big of a deal, but I mean, think about it. If you go, if you're even a vegetarian, I'm gonna sit down and have a plate of cooked vegetables and I'm going to cover them with some olive oil and then I'm gonna have some nuts and then maybe some berries. And there's your high fat, moderate protein,

low carbohydrate meal right there. So it's not as hard as you think. And here's a cool thing too. If you're an athlete and you want to maximize performance, when you start playing with carbohydrates and reducing carbohydrates, you can really squeeze out some pretty amazing performance. Now you're getting more and more of these ultra endurance athletes

and even strength athletes who are going very low carbohydrate and then right before their event, they'll increase their carbohydrates. They're more sensitive to it. Yeah, their insulin sensitivity goes through the roof. So they'll eat, whereas normally they eat four or five hundred grams of carbs a day. And that was the protocol anyway to be super depleted to do the carb loading for the events.

People forgot about that process. They just thought that, oh, I'm going to load a super huge carb meal, you know, the night before with spaghetti and this then have like pancakes and the more. And then I'm going to have great energy for the game. And then they're all sluggish and, you know, slow out there. No, you forgot the process leading up to that. No, you can load. You can carb load with a lot less.

Carbs, if you are a low carb, if you always eat low carb, because you're insulin, you're much more sensitive to the effects of insulin. So you utilize what you eat and you don't need quite as many carbohydrates to get that boost. And I also want to point to studies,

that recent studies now that show that, ketogenic athletes who are now fat adapted, And I also want to point to studies that, no, recent studies now that show that, you know, ketogenic, you know, athletes who have been, who are now fat adapted, they have just as much glycogen storage in their muscles as regular athletes. That's so fascinating to me. Yeah, we're, we're talking about that when we had, what was his name again? Dr. Diago Sistino. Dr. Diago Sistino, yeah, yeah, he was talking about the fat adapted athletes now.

So fascinated by that because also, like I had heard about, you know, the whole carb loading process, like even that, the person that came up with that process had even had to reevaluate that. And what it was doing long term with these athletes and their chronic inflammation, all these like arthritis and things

they're battling as a result of this. It's like there might be a better way. All I know is that I personally, I have, I know a lot of people who have mild autoimmune issues, like irritable bowel syndrome and more severe like Crohn's and MS and some of the more severe ones. Almost every single one of them that I know does way better on a reduced, severely reduced carbohydrate diet or no carbohydrates. Some of them eat carbohydrates, but they don't eat grains. And some of them don't eat any of them at all.

And all of them eat more fats. Now what they eat can vary from individual to individual. And I also wanna be clear, individual variances can be very big. There are general things we're talking about, but I'm pretty sure there's someone out there whose body does better on a higher carbohydrate diet. And that's another thing to keep in mind. There are some people who genetically, if they eat a higher fat diet, will have blood lipid levels that are ridiculous and have bad side effects, but for the most part, people do better.

Well, and we also were not taking account for anabolicly enhanced too, which, you know, bad side effects, but for the most part, people do better. Well, and we also, we're not taking account for anabolicly enhanced too, which, you know, there is a good portion of people that are lifting weights that are and that there's a difference. There's not a lot of, we don't have a lot of good studies yet that show somebody who's anabolicly enhanced and running a ketogenic diet versus a high carb diet.

And so I hope to see some of that stuff. I remember we had someone asked us a question. You say, will. I mean, with it being banned substance with all sports, I don't know what they're being funding. You know why they can't? Because it would be considered unethical to have people take, you know, a bunch of testosterone.

Because it's outside of the therapy class it in, like the cocaine and all that kind of category. Yeah, I would be like, we took this group of people, we put them on a thousand milligrams of testosterone and they would never. Well, I think just the simple fact that we have hormone therapy and therapy is doing that. I would think that there would leave some room for. Well, those are, those are, I can see a window. Therapy to go to that. Yeah, I can see that therapy to go. Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, that's a start, right? That's at least a start seeing that if you're taking something synthetic and you're keeping your levels elevated consistently through therapy, if that makes a difference in the carbohydrate intake, which

I would assume that there are more benefits to somebody who is anabolically enhanced. I mean, wouldn't you think so? I would think that- I think anabolically enhanced athletes utilize protein at much higher rates. So those are the people that are probably benefit from higher protein intake for sure. Yeah, and carbs, what I'm saying, I'm just saying just protein, I'm saying carbohydrates.

Yeah, I think testosterone, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure one of our listeners will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think high levels of testosterone do increase insulin sensitivity. I do believe that there's a connection there if I'm not completely mistaken. So that would make sense. Because you're pretty much anabolic 24 or 7

when you're on that, which I mean insulin plays a huge role in that. That reminds me of a study that I just saw on muscle PhD. You guys know that Instagram page. You know what irritates me? What? When these motherfuckers don't respond to me, why? I just just bugs me. I feel like I, I mean, I don't, I, I got a good question. I do.

I asked a very legitimate question. He did a post that says the first lesson of this week for muscle PhD Academy investigates a very common myth. Can you build muscle and lose body fat simultaneously? And the answer is yes. Uh, the topic has many conflicting theories. Adequate protein intake for the average person, not exercising in quotation, is about 0.4 to 0.45 grams of protein per pound to body weight. To put that in a perspective, 160 pound man would consume 64 grams of protein. However, as exercise is added, protein intake increases.

The current upper limit for protein intake is about one gram per pound of body weight. So pretty close to accurate. This study showed that when individuals consumed 1.1 grams of protein per pound of body weight, they lost body fat and increased lean mass. Now, this is not the first study to show this. He goes on to talk more detail about this.

So my question was with this study, so showing basically is saying that, and this is why I don't like studies like this, because somebody reads that and goes, oh, so if I, you know, the higher my protein intake is, the easier it is for me to burn body fat and build muscle simultaneously, right? Well, my question to him was, you know, if the calories were all the same in these studies,

do you think this could be because the group eating more protein had more healthy fat and less carbs? Or do you think it's directly related to the protein intake or the higher protein intake would most likely be coupled with lower carbs, right? Because more likely if they're... Because that's a very, I mean, that's a with lower carbs, right? Because more likely if they're... Because that's a very, I mean, that's a very logical question, right? Well, that's why I wasn't like prodding,

saying that it was wrong or anything like that. I was really interested to hear the answer. And of course, motherfucker answers, everybody but me, you know, I'm just like, and everybody else asks the stupid questions. I don't want to logic it. What's your favorite protein? You know, what's a, what, what bar should I take?

I'm like, these are all stupid questions. Somebody ask him a little fucking legitimate question and get an answer here, like, you know, what's a, what, what, what's bar should I take? I'm like, these are all stupid questions. Somebody asked him a little fucking legitimate question and get an answer here. Like, you know, and this is like the fourth or fifth time that I've wrote on this guy's page. And I like him and I've given shout outs about him before. And now I'm annoyed. So this, it did annoys me why, why I say nice things about you. I ask you, comes, here comes the bully dreams. Yeah. Well, come on, dude, like I, I, I've, I've wrapped this dude before and say all this nice shit. I ask you, come here. Here comes the bully train. Yeah. Well, come on, dude. Like, I've I've wrapped this dude before and say all this nice shit. I ask you. Let me ask the question. Maybe, Lance. Yeah. Actually, why don't you, why don't you get on there and ask the same question? Because, and it wouldn't bother me if I, if I obviously, I think, well, I mean, sometimes people are aware of how even talking to us because we're so you've created that for us.

You were all, that was you. You've assumed that role recently. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, the last story. I'm a big mouth, not an asshole. Well, you've just been influencing cell out of must be honest. Yeah, we're turning into one. We've got chucks, you know, we're doing it.

But that's the type of studies that we have going out there. You know, that's what reminded me of that. It's, you know, someone reads that and, you know, somebody like that who's supposedly credible, posts something like that, it without like, hey, let's talk about some of the other things that could be going on in this to just come out there and say that higher protein is going to burn more fat

and, you know, build more muscle simultaneously. And some studies will show that, but I think here's the thing too, we need to look at. When we look at studies on performance or the metrics are build muscle burn body fat, and they show that 15% or 10% more muscle was built when someone had two grams of protein per pound to body weight versus one gram per pound of body weight, which is a tremendous amount of protein. And you think to yourself, like, wow, 10% more muscle, that's a lot. It's not that much if the average person in the study gained, you know, three pounds or four pounds of muscle.

It's not even half a pound of muscle. And that, and how are they measuring that? Do you know how inaccurate it is to measure those kinds of things? And at the end of the day, it's not about doing everything to maximize muscle and to maximize fat loss. That's not the, and that's not just the,

that's not the only thing you should look at because if it was all about that, if that's all I give a shit about, or I'll give a shit about. It's such a great point. Then you're throwing away, you're throwing out so many other metrics that you can look at in terms that'll tell you about your health.

You know, is it worth it to gain one pound of muscle more, which you're lucky to gain an extra pound of muscle from some technique like this versus what you were doing before? Is it worth gaining that one extra pound of muscle to sacrifice some of your, I don't know, range of motion because maybe you're more in flame now, or maybe your energy's not as good, or maybe your skin isn't as good

because your gut's not as healthy, or maybe longevity's off. You know, you gotta look at all these different factors and I'll tell you something, in okay, sure, some of you guys are just totally 100% aesthetic based and you just don't give a shit. You just want to look good Let me tell you something right now. You take two people, okay? Take twins and I'll put an extra four pounds of muscle on one twin But I'll make the other twin much healthier on all other

Parameters look at them next to each other. I guarantee you the healthier person will look better. They'll look better aesthetically, they'll look healthier. So remember that, I know you wanna, a lot of you guys listen right now, wanna be, you wanna look sexy, you wanna look attractive. Nothing, nothing looks more attractive in sexier than healthy.

There isn't anything that looks better than that. There are, and I know some of guys who who've been to some of these fitness expos uh... you know i'm shocked i go to these fitness expos and i see massively righted out bodybuilders and becuni girls and when you look at them up close i mean yeah far away you see that you know the boobs in the butt and the dudes look all sacked in here to look up close

and i go yeah they don't look at all so they all sunk in the sky. They look unhealthy. Like some is not right. Skin all worn. You know what's funny? You brought this up. I wonder if this ever crossed. Man, sitting at the dinner table with Ben Greenfield,

his wife and his two children, have to be for the most healthy individuals I've ever seen in my life. They just glowed. Oh yeah, like, little, all of them. They're hair, their skin, their vascularity, like everything about them, like you could just see the health,

like radiating from both of them. You could just tell, you could tell by the way they live, now mind you, Ben Greenfield is an extreme, right? Oh, he's just a man. He's a biohacker, right? So he prides himself on, you know, all those little tiny things he's doing

that most people are not doing. But I mean, man, you could see it. You could totally see it. So the guy looks like he's 20 years old, you know? Well, it's wired in our DNA to spot that in somebody else. We don't even know a lot of times what it is, but we just know that by looking at you, I could point things out, like little nuance things

like I could tell you're unhealthy, like your breast, you know what I mean, stuff like that. I could remember, you know, even myself, not that long ago, like I would have done, you know, anything that was, you know, besides, you know, maybe breaking the law or maybe even then, to gain an extra, you know, four or five pounds of muscle. Like really?

Is it that important? You know, to gain that extra five pounds of muscle, to sacrifice, you know sacrifice the rest of your health or is when your short-term minded. It is, and at the same time, gain that extra five pounds of muscle. It's not like you make this life altering change where everything is gonna be great and all of a sudden,

you're happy with your life and everything's working wonderful. That doesn't happen from getting worse health in the pursuit of losing an extra three pounds of fat and gaining extra three pounds of muscle. It only happens from being healthy both inside and out. That's the, those are the glasses you should look through when you're looking at how to eat and how to exercise. Yes, even us, we have programs

that are designed to maximize performance, but we always bring them in the parameters of overall health because we are looking for long-term. I don't want people to follow my program, get great results for 12 weeks, and then fry themselves or burn themselves out or the body stops responding. I want something that's gonna always give them

progress and results and you can only do that if you're healthy. It doesn't happen if you're not. That's it. So listen, if you like Mind Pump, leave us a five star rating review on iTunes. If we like your review and we choose it, you will win a free Mind Pump T-shirt.

You can also check us out on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. I'm at Mind Pump Sal, Justin's at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. And also don't forget to check out our new YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance,

check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full

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