Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 385: Dr. Terry Wahls on New Dietary Research

Episode Date: October 17, 2016

In this fascinating episode, Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Dr. Terry Wahls who went from being debilitated from Multiple Sclerosis, to reclaiming her life and health by making diet and lifestyles changes. There are those in the fitness world that preach macros over nutrition. This interview debunks the ridiculous notion that what you fuel your body with doesn't matter. Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you with a new video on our new YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint AND the Sexy Athlete Mod (The RGB Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get your Kimera Koffee, Mind Pump's first official sponsor, at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. All right, mind-pump listeners. You're about to hear us talk to one of my favorite people to walk. She's like a walking superhero. Dr. Terry Walls, she developed the Walls method, which is a protocol to combat autoimmune disorders and diseases, but she really echoes a lot of the stuff that we talk about. She's lead research on a lot of it. Brilliant mind on cutting edge, on cutting edge nutrition and the future of how we will eat food. You know, she has her own story that she had to go through. She almost became decapacitated by her own illness

and had to cure herself. And that's what brought her on the path that she has now. Which was really interesting to hear her answer when you asked her about, you know, if she contributes that to her eating in the past. So that was kind of neat. She dove into also. And she was pretty firm on that, right?

Yeah, sure. Was she a vegan or a vegetarian? She was a vegetarian. And so she talks about 20 years. Yeah, and so she talks about some of the things, you know, that she had to do to heal herself from multiple sclerosis and a very bad form of it. I mean, she would have been, she probably would have been with us now. She's in a wheelchair.

Yeah, so they're planning rapidly. Pretty, pretty amazing stuff. I mean, she went into that. She went into why the wise of why she should eat a certain way, she went into a little bit of why chronic conditions all have this kind of one thing in common. So, whether it's MS, Crohn's, Cancer, Diabetes, all of these chronic conditions that Western medicine fails to really solve, you can link it back to nutrition.

A lot of like, again, a lot of stuff that we talk about. Well, I love too that she, in this episode, she actually gives some really basic good information too, like for just the average person. If you don't have an autoimmune, if you're not struggling with MS or something like that, she still gives some really good advice for the average person. If you want just great brain,

you want your brain to be functioning, right? When you're in your 50s and 60s. And again, moving from supplements to real food. Oh, it's just so refreshing. I love that she said that. And she talked about the why. She had the science behind it. Yeah.

And so the, here's some areas that you find her. Before I go into that though, because we do talk a lot about nutrition, we do talk about fasting on this. She does talk about the benefits of fasting. I want to make sure you guys know that we offer an intermittent fasting guide and a nutrition survival guide. These are great tools to teach you how to do and apply the things that she talks about to yourself properly because if you just take this advice and try to do it yourself

half-hazardly, you're likely to not benefit yourself and you could harm yourself, especially with fasting if you don't do it right. So mindpumpmedia.com, you'll find our fasting guide and nutrition survival guide, we have them bundled for a discount. Now you can find Dr. Terry Walls online at Terry Walls, that's T-E-R-R-Y-W-A-H-L-S.com. You can find her on Facebook at Terry Walls MD.

She's also found a Twitter, just her name, Terry Walls, and then on Instagram, she's got a great Instagram page because she actually posts pictures of the kinds of foods that you should eat. So that's the one I really say you should probably follow, and you can find her at Dr. DR Terry Walls, and that's on Instagram. So without any further ado, here's my pump talking to Dr. Terry Walls. I'm an academic and tool medicine doc and certainly had a very conventional approach thinking

the new struggles, latest technology was the best way to get people well. And all this change, right, developed a chronic disease, progresses, which there's no cure, relapse human-medium MS. I knew within 10 years of diagnosis, half people weren't able to work due to severe fatigue and the third have palms walking in, a cane walk, or a wheelchair. So I thought out the best people, once the Cleveland Clinic, so the Dispathy University of Iowa, took the newest drugs. Still, three years, my disease had transitioned to the progressive form of the MS, and there's no more

spontaneous remissions or improvements. I then switched to a more aggressive drug treatment out of the antrone and then to the new biologic treatment of PysAvery, continued to decline. And that's when it became apparent I thought I was headed towards becoming bedridden and quite possibly demented by my illness. I would begin to read the basic science, because I know my basic science colleagues studying their mice and rats have some insights to treatment

that are discovered 20 to 30 years ahead of clinical practice. So I begin experimenting on a variety of vitamins and supplements, and I slow the speed of my decline. I can tell if I'm variety of vitamins and supplements and I slow the speed of my decline. I can tell if I'm missing my vitamins and supplements, my fatigue is worse. But I'm certainly not recovering. My Cleveland Clinic doctors tell me about Lauren Cardain and the PaleoDiet and they actually did that if I backed up in 2002 before I needed the wheelchair.

And so after 20 years of immunogyteria I had adopted the paleo diet, went back eating meat, but it continued to decline the next year. I needed the wheelchair. I took the mitochondrial and then tisabri, but I stayed with the paleo diet because at least I was doing something. But the summer of 2007, I was so weak I could not sit up in a regular chair. I had a zero gravity decline. I thought, you have my knees higher than my nose. I had to want to work another one at home. I could walk very short distances like 10 feet using two walking sticks. And I knew that probably the next year I would be having to

finally go out on disability possibly in in six months, because the brain fog was going to be more and more troublesome. That's why I discovered the Institute for Functional Medicine. I took their course on neuroprotection. I had a deep understanding of the various things I could do to help protect my brain, and longer those divides and supplements which I added. I also discovered electrical stimulation muscles which I added to my very simple workout regimen, which by the way if I did 10 minutes, a very simple mat exercises, I went longer

than that. I was totally non-functional and had to lay in bed for the rest of the day. Later, a couple months into this, I had the insight that I should redesign my paleo diet using the list of vibrancy supplements I was taking to get that from the food supply. So that was more research when I got stored out that was at the very end of December of 2007. And I started this new way of eating, which, which eventually I would organize the structure we call it

basically the wall of diet. Within a month I could tell that my fatigue was diminishing, my energy was markedly improving. In three months I'm walking with a cane, in six months I'm walking my stillful lump, but walking throughout the hospital without a cane. At nine months, I get on the bike and pedal around the block for the first time. In about six years, I'm crying. My kids are crying.

And that really is when I'm like, well, who knows what might be possible. And at 12 months, I do an 18, 18 and a half mile bike ride with my family. In this really changes how I understand disease and health, it changes the way I practice medicine, and it would ultimately change the focus of my research program. And so that would lead to my becoming this huge champion of using diet and lifestyle as the primary means to treat crying disease, to this creation of better health and vitality as the intervention that I use clinically in my clinics and in my research programs now. Wow, that's a fantastic story. And I have so many questions after hearing you say that.

And I watched a TED talk that you had on YouTube. It was about 2 million views. And the title of it for our listeners is Mind Your Mitochondria. It's an exceptional video. Now, for the listeners who aren't familiar, MS stands for Multiple sclerosis, and this is an autoimmune disease that attacks the nervous system.

Is that correct? Is that accurate? Correct. So the immune cells begin damaging the myelons, which is the insulation on the wiring between brain cells in the brain and in the spinal cord, meaning the problems of pain, with balance, with vision, with motor function. Okay, and the current treatments

with most autoimmune diseases is to attack the immune system to depress it and some of those medications that you named off, if I'm not mistaken, those are chemotherapy drugs, or at least one of them was if I'm not mistaken. Correct, correct. So the first level of drugs were in a few months If I'm not mistaken, those are chemotherapy drugs, or at least one of them was if I'm not mistaken. Correct. So the first level of drugs were in a few months in Culpaxone. I tried those for three years, went downhill, and then I did my dosantro in a form of chemotherapy.

Continue to go downhill. Then I went on tisabary, which is those new biologic drugs in that $50,000 to $100,000 a year range. And continue to go downhill. Then that's taken off that, put it on a transplant drug. That's about $15,000 to $20,000 a year. And that was back in 2003 or 2004 when I was putting that drug. And that's why I began to experiment with myself. Like, you know, the

best that medicine has to offer isn't stopping my decline. Mm-hmm. Wow. Now, you talked about taking supplements or identifying nutrients that were essential for brain and nerve health. Would you mind kind of going over some of them? I'm sure there's a lot of them, but some of them are important. Sure. So, you know, when I first started all of this, I identified about 20 supplements that I got up to about 36. And that's why I redesigned the diet. I end in our clinics that we get most of these nutrients through food.

The stuff that we use in our livestock clinic is really very, very basic. I measure everyone's vitamin D level. That's what we use in our livestock clinic. It's really very, very basic. I measure everyone's vitamin D level, and I make sure that we get their vitamin D up over 15 nanograms per mil. We measure their homocystine, and we give B vitamins. That'll be 12, muscle folate to get the homocystine low down below 7.5.

And those are the things that we do for everyone, then I will personalize and make some other suggestions based on their family history and their life exposures. But vitamin D, the decomp, the other thing that we do is I'll give a couple of grams of cowl of oil to everyone. Now what really fascinating to me is through your story talking about how you use supplements to provide those for yourself, but then you progressed faster or what I mean by progress, you got better when you got them for food? Yes, you know, I really like the paleo diet, but I felt pretty strongly after my and everyone,

the paleo diet did not reverse my disease. I continued to decline. Taking the supplements may have slowed my decline, may have helped the fatigue somewhat, but did not lead to recovery. It was when I added functional, and when I saw the functional medicine at a longer list of supplements, I was still declining. It was when I combined what I learned in ancestral health, the pylian movement, and functional

medicine, and redesigned all these principles around food, diet, and lifestyle, that is when the magic began. It's so refreshing to hear you say that too, because we have to be careful when we talk about things on the radio right now too, that we talked about the ketogenic diet just recently, and just because we talk about the benefits of it, all of a sudden people take that and run with it, like it's this magic diet that's going to save everything, and it's a collection of other things, and just the food that you're eating. Well, what I find really fascinating is how, because the industry that we work in in fitness, supplements are just like, that's what generates most of the revenue.

And I hear people saying all the time, well, I have all the nutrition, you know, nutrition I need. I take all these supplements, all these vitamins and minerals and trying to explain to them why food is superior, you know, superior source of these things. Why do you think that is? Why do you think, if I take these supplements, it'll be good, but eating the food will do better. So, food is many more things than just supplements vitamins. It's a much richer complex set of molecules point thing.

And if you wanna take your supplements, where are they being manufactured from? Are they from genetically modified bacteria in China as in reformulated and shipped here. When we, for example, identify the B vitamins, and we first labeled folate, we had to pick what we thought was the most biologically active compound in a series of compounds

that are very closely related, that when I eat the plant are all there. Food is a much more complex mixture of compounds than a supple one is, and we get that whole complex mixture. Most of the nutrition that we have interacts in a very complicated way with the other nutrients. For example, zinc. People may read that zinc is a really very important nutrient for the brain. It's involved in over 200 enzymes. So I'm going to start taking zinc.

And I may have been low on zinc. So I feel great with this new addition of zinc. But zinc is also the same receptor that takes up zinc. We'll take up copper. If I keep taking a supplemental zinc, I will not be able to take in copper. And what will happen is over time I'll develop a copper deficiency, which also creates huge problems for my brain, for my immune cells, and leads to a different set of problems. Whenever we take supplements,

we are likely to get the ratios wrong, eventually, and create nutritional deficiencies. If we get the food, we get things in the appropriate ratios, we're more likely to have the healthier microbiome, and we're more likely to have health and vitality. I have to keep reminding people that I don't have a supplement program. I have a food program. And we may use targeted supplements based on your clinical circumstances that will file and figure out when you can drop them back off. But the real magic occurs from the food, not from the supplements. Thank you for saying that. Are there any foods that are big red flags, foods that you tell your patients or people

that they should probably avoid or not eat completely? Sure. So anyone who has a chronic health problem, I tell them that you avoid three foods, two in particular, gluten, and in case seen. So, gluten is a protein in wheat, ri, barley, and many ancient grains. Case seen is a protein and dairy. So, I asked them to go grain-free for a hundred days, preferably also dairy-free, although they can have clarified butter. And the reason is, if your immune cells are irritated by the grain, they're probably

going to be irritated by the dairy as well. And until you take the food completely out, you don't know what level of symptom reduction you might experience. I also encourage you moving eggs for a hundred days because egg protein is the third most common immune irritant. So we take out the three biggest offenders and then I ask them to have vegetables, lots of vegetables. So greens, sulfur rich, cabbage onion, mushroom family, and then deeply colored stuff like beets, carrots, berries.

You know, six to nine cups and you're measuring it before you cook the stuff. According to you know, appetite and size, so basically eating meat and vegetables. And it depends on how much you're training, how big your muscle mass is, as to how much protein you're going to need, or how many ounces of meat you might have. And there's no need to stuff yourself, but most of them want people to eat vegetables and sufficient meat without overdoing the meat. Now, Dr. Walls, speaking for yourself, have you attempted to reintroduce any of these foods to see how your body responds since you've been off them? Oh, sure.

So, you know, if I accidentally get exposed to the wrong food, the gluten derailleur eggs, my face pain turns on. It's an electrical pain across either the right side of the left side of my face. It's never on both sides, it's true, one or the other. It's horrific, I can't walk, I can't talk, and I usually need very high dose steroids to turn that off. Is it immediately you feel that? Well, within 48 hours. So it will turn on in about six to 48 hours. I now travel to Pragyozone because, you know, when I tell people, I can't have those food,

I've become increasingly clear when I go to restaurants, so like, if I eat the food, I'm so ill, I may be hospitalized, is it what is safe to eat? And then, next day, I know the chef is out. We have a little conversation. And I also, my friends are feeding me. I offer to bring the food over and say, look, the reactions are so severe, I can be hospitalized. So I'm happy to bring some food so we don't have to worry about my getting into trouble. But the first couple of years, as I was traveling more, I wasn't quite so clear with people. And I would occasionally get food that was not as clean as it should have been.

And so my face pain turns on. Fortunately for me, the pain is horrific enough. That I felt like I figured out I need to be this explicit, this safe, or just have tea and not eat. Now, I know we have listeners right now who are listening to this and a lot of them are saying, well, I'm not sick, I don't have any issues, so it's not a big deal. Does this, are there any implications for what you are finding with your studies for everyday people, healthy people

who have no issues? So the age of onset for memory loss, early dementia, is steadily dropping. We have people who are becoming disabled because of cognitive decline in the early 50s, occasionally in the late 40s. So I would say most of us would like to know who we are in our 50, 60, 70s, 80s. We want to be able to recognize our family, our friends, our children, our grandchildren, our great grandchildren, and what our bodies to work into our 70s, 80s, 90s.

You know, I plan on having it work when I'm 100. So getting rid of the gluten, getting rid of the sugar in the processed foods, eating vegetables and meat dramatically lowers your risk of cognitive decline, up dementia, heart attacks, obesity, diabetes, mental health problems, autoimmune problems, and cancers. So if you're healthy now and you'd like to have a clear brain that works really well in your 50, 60, 70, 80s and 90s, this is, and you would have lower healthcare costs when you want to be working to your 65 as opposed to having taken your early disability,

this is the best money you'll ever spend is to get rid of the trash and eat vegetables. Now Dr. Wells, how much pushback have you gotten from like your peers and big farm ahead when you, especially when you first started? Oh, sure. So, you know, when I first started doing this, my, so my partners here at the University of Iowa, the VA hospital had seen this decline in stunning recovery. And then, keeps it seen that I'm focused on diet and lifestyle in a traumatic brain injury, chronic and chronic, chronic care clinic.

And so the question is, this was crazy because it was not FDA approved stuff. They complained to the chief of staff, I had to go meet with them, review what I was doing, explain the science, show them the papers. And he became actually very supportive. And as the residents and my colleagues saw, these very positive results in the Shrek Ranger clinic, in the primary care clinic, yeah, I was getting steadily less pushed back.

Then the chief of medicine came to me and said, we'd like to take you out of primary care because we think what you're doing is so remarkable. We want you to have your own clinic. So then I was pulled out of that. Then I ran just to track brain re-clinic and a functional medicine clinic that we call the Syracuse Christal clinic.

And then my career shifted again. I got funded for a major research project, so we're doing that. And then to my credit or maybe to my disadvantaged, I get promoted into administrative jobs, so now I'm chief of the SNCC here in service line. So I have clinic one day a week, research one day a week, and I'm an administrative doc three days a week. Fantastic. Unfortunately, I had to give up my traumatic brain and your clinic, you don't have to do all that. Well, at least there's a little, you know, some good end to that. Oh, you know, and you got some pushback, but they started listening.

Well, and the good news is, as the service chief, I'm able to approve and get more of my physicians and other staff sent off to training in functional medicine. So we're bringing functional medicine into our pain clinic, for example. And I'm trying to get some more staff to grow my lifestyle clinic. So that is helpful. You know, Dr. Wallace, something comes to my mind hearing you talk about all of this. I have a very close family member with Crohn's disease and something that has

worked very, very well for him is something called the carbohydrate-specific diet, but it's very, very similar to some of the stuff you're talking about. And then I have other friends with other autoimmune type disorders that are not MS, not Crohn's, and they too respond to similar treatment. And so, I know Western medicine tends to look at all these different chronic disorders and diseases as being very unique and different, but it seems like they have something in common because a lot of them, there's lots of science now,

animal science in particular coming out showing that they seem to respond well to very similar protocol of eating a diet very much like yours. Why is that? What do you think that is? Why is it that they all have, what do they all have in common that are causing these people's immune systems to attack themselves? What we cry disease is mostly the same disease.

We have nutritional deficiencies. We have altered microbiome. We have mitochondria than a networking well. We have toxins that are stored to access the levels in our fat. We have a history of infections that we may not have cleared. And we have unrecognized food sensitivities, nutritional deficiencies. So ourselves are starving. We've been sending the wrong epigenetic signals. And so what I've done is I've designed very intentionally to recover myself as well as I could. A program to maximize the health of myself.

And because life is self-correcting chemistry, when you do that, you begin to do your chemistry more and more correctly. And when you do that, yourself get healthier. And when you do that, your organs get healthier. And as your organs get healthier, oh my God, this really crazy thing happens. You use them. And your quality of life improves.

Your pain goes down. Your energy goes up, and your need for blood pressure meds declines, your need for diabetic meds decline, your need for pain meds decline, and your need for immune suppression, mental health medicines decline, and low on behold before you know it, instead of being on 25 med knots, you're on 23, and then you're on 20, and then you're on 18. And we may not get everyone off, but the longer that they follow the program and the healthier their cells become, the healthier they become, and the less medication is needed for them to be well. That's wonderful.

I can't help but feel like we're on the cusp of a kind of a revolution in Western medicine. I'm hearing more, it's still a minority, but I'm hearing more and more people like yourself with the education and the background. Because in the past, the people who would talk about these things, you know Nobody took them seriously. They weren't doctors. They weren't scientists But we're hearing more you know doctors and researchers like yourself And we have more citizen scientists people who are are are trying these things Experiment of one and I'm wow. I am feeling better. And then the social media talk about what's happening.

And so more and more of the public are willing to use that lifestyle as part of their treatment for their cry-health conditions. And so this is creating more demand. And people are willing to say, I don't care if this is covered by my insurance. I want to feel well, and it's worth it to me, to pay out of pocket, to find a functional medicine person, or to find a health coach, or to find a nutrition professional, or a movement professional. They help me implement all this stuff.

And you know, the medical schools are our pan-adventilist like that. Now, maybe they are needing to be more responsive. You know, at the National MS Society saw this and saw the constituent saying, this is the research we want funded. And so, I actually work with them to get their science scientific review panel added some people who do dietary lifestyle research. So they could put out a call asking for diet and lifestyle studies and have this new panel review these studies.

And that's why the MS Society is now funding diet and lifestyle studies. And I'm happy to say we are one of those studies that they are funding. Very, very cool. Dr. Walsh, do you have a specific exercise or movement protocol that you follow? Well, yes. So here's sort of the kinds of things that I do.

I do some stretches, of course, every morning. I have a bivore pro, and I have a little strength routine that I do. I do some stretches of course every morning. I have a bivore pro and I have a little strength routine that I do on my bivore pro. I do some hula hooping for my core strength and I have a matte series of exercises that I'll do. I also do some inversion therapy on an inversion table as well. And I'd say this whole routine probably takes between 45 minutes to do. And then I'll bike 20 minutes to work. And then I'll work all day at bike 20 minutes home.

And on the way home, I for the last 12 minutes of bike ride, I'm doing intervals. So when I get home, I'm really roughness and some nice training on the way home. So I get strength training, balance training, aerobic training, and some high intensity interval training. That's a very good protocol. That's a great routine. It's amazing because a lot of the diseases and issues that seem to plague advanced nations

are of these chronic variety. We've solved a lot of the acute problems, but it's like cancer, autoimmune diseases as well. It's all self-inflicted by our diet and lifestyle choices. A lot of the stuff that you're saying about our diet, I mean, you look at the major crops that we invest in. We subsidize. It's like we're making it worse, you know, as we continue to...

And in the... We had this naive idea, world hungry, one to solve world hungry. We thought it was simply none of our calories. So if we would subsidize production of calories, that would be the best and we could do for world peace to decrease hunger. Hunger has much more to do with political instability than in adequate calories. Oh, absolutely. We throw away more food than I think some small

machines. We're 4% of our food. In my lifestyle class, we spend a lot of time teaching people how to cook, how to minimize food waste. Because the people that I serve, that don't have any money. My people are on disability, they're on VA pensions. They are extremely poor. They're not buying organic foods. When they first come to clinic, we're talking about

getting conventional food, getting frozen food, getting canned food, but the key thing is we got to cook at home. I got to eat these kinds of categories, green, sulfur, color. Then as they begin to figure this stuff out, they're gardening, they're hunting, they're fishing, they're beginning to figure out some organic food, getting things more sustainably. But they don't start out doing that. And of course not everyone can't. Some folks, money's so tight, they're always going to be conventional food frozen and canned. And that's okay. People we all have to live with our economic reality, whatever that is. I couldn't like you anymore right now. Okay, I give you guys a big hug and kiss.

So you, you know, one last one. So you, you were a vegetarian before all this 20 years. 20 years. Now, this is very speculative. Of course, I know scientists and doctors hate, you know, when they get questions like this, but do you think had you eaten the way you do now before you, you became, you know, when they get questions like this, but do you think had you eaten the way you do now before you became diagnosed with MS, do you think you would have prevented it from happening?

Oh, yes, yes, I'm sure. Wow. So, you know, multiple factors, the toxic explosions from the farm, to being an art student, from out behind, high stress levels, not asleep. I did exercise the whole time so I did that one correctly. You were a black belt taekwondo, weren't you? Black belt taekwondo, so I never missed working out. So I was a real kickass sort of girl

all that for quite a while. And you know. I grew up on a farm. I decided for moral reasons to quit eating meat. My farmer parents were horrified. They knew I was wrecking my health. We're really leaned on me. Of course being all that more defiant, I pushed back. That probably led to why I was so well as a look for 20 years now to eat meat. How I interpreted the vegetarian diet, too many grains, too many carbs, too much gluten.

It's certainly now the D12 absolutely added to an accelerated my disease. I probably would have still become ill even had I been a meat eater because I'm sure all these other factors, the toxins, the gluten sensitivity, the microbiome disruption still would have occurred. And I think I still would have had MS. Probably would not have been as fast or as severe.

If there was just a few very simple tips that you could give or advice you could give our audience, just the average healthy person, that would give them the most bang for their buck. What would that be? Get rid of the sugar and sweetened foods. Get rid of the processed foods, eat vegetables instead. Excellent. You recommend quite a long line. Yeah, you you recommend quite a bit And I think it was your Ted time was one of your talks. I was watching that you know You had everybody raise their hand and then you started to okay if you don't eat this much and almost the whole room was Drop down for how many vegetables? Yeah, right and That's a vegetable three three plate full of vegetables in a day. Yeah, I think I think oh my god

I could do that right and I think I really I think people that eat vegetables still think that I think they have no idea How grossly they're under eating still that's why it's I wanted to bring up Yes, what you do is you're really sugar in the grain and sweet and food and you're eating just now such a vegetables and You know six to twelve ounces of meat You're gonna be a lot of vegetables because you're eating just now, so you're actually vegetables, and you know, six to 12 ounces of meat. You're only being a lot of vegetables because you're really hungry. Yeah. What people are thinking is,

I'm not going to give up my six to 10 serens of grain, and of course I couldn't possibly eat nine cups of vegetables. You have to give up the sugar in the processed foods, and then you'll have plenty of room for your vegetables. Unless you're like many of my paleo friends who eat only meat and no vegetables. Now I have some, that's who I only want to eat meat and vegetables and I say okay, you need a lot of organ meat and if you want to have your water-sideable vitamins, you're going to have to eat that meat raw, which I can't recommend because of the public health

concerns. Mmm. Organ meats, that's a big one. Oregon meets. Nobody eats Oregon meets anymore. I go to the butcher and they basically give me chicken livers for free. That's how nobody wants them, you know?

Chicken livers, heart. It's very inexpensive to get organic organ meets because most people don't know how good they are for us. And butchers often just do them away. But it's it's there's a great tip for people that are trying to save money right there. It's pretty. Yeah. What about I've seen a lot of science coming out lately on fasting, intermittent fasting

and its effects on autoimmune diseases and the immune system. Is there anything have you looked into that or is that part of your protocol? That fasting is fabulous. So over since we've been around as a species, 500,000 years, we've had to get food, find it, or grow it. And so, intermittently, we don't have enough food. And so, we have to wait until those food available. So, we've always had been fasting,

either because of drought, famine, war, or winter. And it turns out that our species evolved so that fasting was good for us. It stimulates nerve growth factors. And it's a signal to your body to do repair work. And so it is great for your mitochondria, is great for repairing you to have this fast. Now you can do this, it's great anti-aging stuff. And there are a number of ways you can do this. You can have reduced calories. It's treating only about half calories

that metabolically we think you need. You could eat every other day, but you still only eat the normal amount of calories on one day and then nothing the next day. You could have at least 12 hours of fasting or 16 hours of fasting or 24 hours of fasting. You could do a three-day fast. So there are many variations, and depending on your health circumstances, there are pros and cons. In general, I have people ease into these concepts.

If you just try and do it all at once, it's pretty miserable. If you sort of transition into it, it works well. Well, that's a great advice. We actually have a fasting guide. So people could kind of, you know, get some advice on how to do it properly. Because I think when people think fasting, oh, just don't eat.

If you've never done it before, you can have a tough time. It's a problem. Yeah, you can have a tough time. So, Dr. Walsh, I know our time is up. We've had a fantastic time talking to you. I really appreciate you. You're already here for sure. Definitely.

So let me tell you your list of a couple of things. I'd like them to know. One is how to find in my website, perfect. Terrierviewwalls.com. In a couple of other things, we have a seminar that we have every year that the public comes to to learn all about the

walls protocol, the latest science of the speakers that I bring in. And I've now started as certified health coaches and other health professionals because I have so many people from around the globe trying to come see me. I decided that I need to start treating other health professionals as well. So we have that information all on the website as well. Well, thank you very much again. I've been a big fan of yours for a long time. I personally have autoimmune type symptoms, irritable bowel syndrome. At one point I thought I was going potentially into full-blown

Crohn's disease and a lot of the ways I healed myself is a lot of the stuff you talk about and now I have almost no symptoms. So hearing, you know, someone like yourself talk about this and get as much notoriety as you're starting to get to, you know, get is very exciting. So I really appreciate it. You know, it's a gift uh... they would have to have these uh... sort of annoying health experiences because without them we would have continued to go through life uh... without the knowledge of the soar

that is true and uh... instead we get to have the snouted wharnas and are able to help so many millions of other people that they could be getting their lives back to. Dr. Do you have any other recommendations of other people that other leading researchers in your field right now alongside you?

We've had Dr. Dionocino on here recently. We had Sean Stevenson with Sleep Matters on here not too long ago. We have some other minds that are heading. Oh, Dale Brutterson. So Dale Brutterson, he's a researcher out of UCLA. He's into Alzheimer's. Oh, it's okay.

Dale and I, both use functional medicine to approach these progressive neurological diseases that we all know should never get better. And like me, he's showing that he's reversing these neurodegenerative diseases. And like me, people were to call them a variety of unflattering terms and did think that he could possibly, that what he was doing was correct. So we both had to overcome immense resistance. and then through resistance, but because we see these stunning successes, we are plunging forward in now working on teaching other clinicians how to do what we are doing, because if we're going to wait for all the science to catch up, it's 30 years for this to become the standard

of care. I think it's been more or less a way long i so uh... and i are uh... we're doing the science we teach you the conditions i think they'll throughout right in a book uh... likewise uh... so you get this information to the public so the public and decide you know what uh... i'm going to try to try these things because that lifestyle is pretty safe well we would like it in this protocol in my protocol have considerable overlap. That's because he's using a functional medicine approach for Alzheimer's and I use the functional medicine

approach for MS. And they are remarkably similar with very similar, wonderful, exciting results. I mean, it's shocking, but it's not you know it's it's it's incredible so what we like to talk about it yet we have reach out to him i'm sure he'd love to uh... to try to get me well i was named on you said dale bredison day of british and it's b re b e f c and and he's at you c l a

okay yet i think his institute is called the buck as in a boy deer. Buck Institute. Okay, we are going to call him. Yeah, we just want to make sure that you know that you have a platform if you ever want. If you when you do release your book or if you got any big seminars going on, you want to help? Well, I'll put you in my database. We'll see if you'd like to help us promote the summer. I want to ready to promote that for next spring. Because I'll have a cookbook. They'll be coming out, helping people understand how you can do this in terms of time and

money, and to implement eating this way. No, we'd love that. We'd love to help you. We're empowering for our audience. Yeah, and I've heard you on a lot of podcasts and interviews know on and interviews and you've been a lot of health podcasts and we are we're unique, you know, we're a fitness and health podcast, but we're also comedy. You know, we've been coined the Howard Stern of fitness and we have so our audience you're going to be reaching people you may not have normally reached you've been able to. So, yeah, we'd love to help you. It just resonates really well because in order to teach well, you have to have good stories, you have to be entertaining and you have to have some, you know, valid scientific points, of course, but you have to have stories and you gotta be fun.

Yeah, that's it. It's definitely our formula. We've tried to labor. Yeah, aren't gonna stay with you. Well tried to labor. You're blocking up. I aren't going to stay with you. No. Well, thanks again. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. Excellent. OK.

I'm glad we finally connected. So I'll add you to my database. All right, Doc. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye bye now. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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