Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 444: How to Take Your Life to the Next Level

Episode Date: January 26, 2017

This episode is a follow up to an episode where Sal and Adam had an on-air disagreement. Some people were wondering if there is a disturbance in the Mind Pump force, a rift between Sal and Adam. This episode reveals the truth about how they really think and also provides tons of actionable advice for taking your life to the next level. Get our newest program, Kettlebells 4 Aesthetics (KB4A), which provides full expert workout programming to sculpt and shape your body using kettlebells. Only $7 at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee, Mind Pump's first official sponsor, at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

We just finished recording one of our probably most passionate, I'd say, discussions. We had a real good time talking about it, getting to some personal issues. And you know, it might move you a little bit. And if you need more guidance, especially when it comes to exercise programming, we offer several programs. And of course, they were designed by us, trainers with over, you know, up to 15 to 20 years of experience working with individuals. We have programs that are great to start with, we have programs that are great for athletes or those who are performance oriented, and even those of you who are aesthetic

focused, we have all these programs available, and we've also bundled them together for discounted rates, and some of these bundles will take you out nine months or even a year worth of exercise programming. You can find all of these programs on our site and more information on them at mindpumpmedia.com. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind up, mind up with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. I was watching last night on YouTube,

this what was it called OCD Extreme Camp or Extreme Camp for OCD or whatever. And it's this BBC show, you can watch it on YouTube, but it's a BBC show. Where? Is that a British television? Oh, that's what that is? Yeah, British Broadcasting.

BBC two. How did you know that? Dude, you ever seen awesome powers? No, I didn what that is. Yeah, BBC one, BBC two. How did you know that? Dude, you ever seen awesome powers? No, I didn't know that. BBC is one of the biggest networks in the world. Oh, so just a network. Yeah, it's a common network that we use over here. Now, if you, if you,

it sounds from, it's the one with the squares, right? Square, it's like the three BBC in their little boxes. But if you, if you, hashtag BBC or look at BBC on a porn site, something else might come up. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna do that right now actually. So I wouldn't be the WBBC.

I wouldn't do that first. Cause you did it already, that's not right. Cause you did it already. I don't do that. I haven't looked at porn a long time. Big. So I'm gonna guess big is the first letter. Yeah, something like that.

C's probably cock. So probably. So I was watching this and these poor kids, right? They got like extreme OCD, but OCD comes in many forms and one of them and these poor kids, right? They got like extreme OCD but OCD comes in many forms and one of them is like these kids There's a couple of these kids who just have terrible thoughts that just run through their head and they can't stop them You know what I mean? Isn't that called Tourette's? Uh, I don't know. I don't think so. I don't know what the defining character is. Yeah, that's a form of Tourette But there's other forms, but anyway, they have these horrible thoughts

that run through their head, and I'm like, fuck, I wonder if I have a version of this, because sometimes, like right now, we're like, hey, let's just go. And now I'm getting, all I want to talk about is horrible stories that just I totally forgot for the last 30 years and then our popping up. Yeah, yeah, in my head.

I think. I think that's like our fallback, you know what I mean? Maybe. Yeah. Like when I was a I think that's like our fallback, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Like when I was a kid, my sister, we had a dog. Okay, what was his name? Spoddy. No, his name was Limo. Limo.

Yeah, instead of weird name. That is. I just remembered his name. Limo. I don't know why we call them Limo. Limo. Yeah, maybe my dad was minst pronouncing limo or something like this, just kind of a long dog, maybe my dad was minst pronouncing limo

or something like that. Oh, yeah. I have a long dog. And my dad speaks broken English. Hey, we got to call him limo. That's awesome. You know, like in a car you drive. Yeah.

Actually, I got to turn the corners real wide. Actually, we had a pit bull at one point and my dad called him Pete because my dad didn't say pit. Right? So it's a Pete. Like a Pete Bull. Pete Bull. So I was like, right Pete so it's a beat like a beat the book I was like oh your dog's name is Pete. Oh my god. I love that. So that's what we called him. Oh shit That's great. So anyway, so we had a dog named limo and This is that a great name. It's a stretch limo

If I said if my sister She would come from out and she was young. We were all young, right? So I was hungry. Was it your first pet, first dog? No, first dog was Pete. Who then died? Pete and Limo.

Then we had Limo. Limo was like, he looked like a cross between a Dotson and a pug and something else. It was a weird looking guy. That is a weird dog. Oh my God, it's a weird combination. The most gangster dog I've ever seen in my life. Was it a yappy dog?

He was the most courageous little shit and he fucked every dog. I don't care what the dog, male, female, big, small, limo was down. He was a humthrusting. He was DTF constantly. So anyway, my sister, who at the time was probably

God, I was probably 10 so she's probably six or maybe I was 11 she's seven. She comes inside. She's like, Oh, Papa, look. Lima likes to dance with me. It's so cute. He's dancing with me. So my dad's like, Oh, what? What do you mean he's dancing with you? So she goes outside and she's like, look, I mean, he's dancing with you. So she goes outside and she's like, look, and so Lima fucking's humping her leg. Oh, she did not. Let's see, he's dancing. He's humping her leg, dude.

Well, I mean, let's be honest. And I'm a lot like grinding. And I'm 11, right? And I'm just starting to figure things out. Well, how the sheet and how the sheet? Six. Okay, so that makes sense. Yeah, you don't understand what she has no idea

what the hell's going on. It's like the first time you walked in on your parents. Oh, they're wrestling. What a mom of dad wrestled me. Oh, That isn't making sense to me. I've never walked in on my parents. You never have never I thought every kid is at least one Never bring that up. That's horrible. That's stuff that you don't want to know. It's fucking burn into my brain I haven't buried that one time you walked in well one time. I'm vividly I remember I'm sure it's probably happened more as a even younger but there there was a, let's see, I'm in Modesto. So how's about, uh, uh, third or fourth grade? Oh, yeah, it's so impressionable. It's burned, burn in there.

Can't get rid of it. So you literally walked in, walked in, walked, they didn't lock the door, walked in and they were just a ball. It's like a, it's a, it's a, it's a ball of nudity, you know, what? Why is Mom and Dad wrestling naked? Did they scream at you, huh? Did they scream at you? They didn't even see me. I just realized that I shouldn't be in the room. You know what I'm saying?

So you walked in and walked out? Yeah, yeah, you walked in. I paused for a second like, wow, then walked out right away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the shitty part about that is that you don't, it doesn't register till later. Yeah, no, exactly.

Like later on, you're like, oh, yeah, later on. And life's, yeah. Yeah, later on when they sit down and they, they, they read you, I you're like, oh, yeah, later on when they sit down and they they read you, I think it was see that was like third or fourth grade. I think fifth grade was when they read to me, where did you come from? And then I was like, oh, I get it now. Yeah, I get it. You guys were you weren't wrestling. See, I didn't actually see it, but now I saw the patterns as I'm older now. We would like watch TV downstairs. They're like, okay, nobody come upstairs.

Locking the door and guess what? We had really creaky floors, you know what I'm saying? And it was just like, we're in the room. I'm just like, what is going on up there? It's just some shit. Like, what are they doing? You know, it's like, I didn't even know.

It's like, party who is like, party who looks at your dad, you're like, oh, you motherfucker. Yeah, and then parties you're like oh Mother you fucking yeah, and the party's like Because you got to include your mom in that yeah, yeah, your mom's involved. It's gross You have this mom's mom's mom's involved. It's not okay. Yeah, what are you gonna do that to mom dad? Yeah, disgusting. Yeah, and they come downstairs all hey all giddy happy come downstairs all, hey, all giddy and happy. What sandwiches? Oh, a frazzled hair.

Can you wash your fucking hands just before you make a sandwich? Honey, do you want me to make you a tuna sandwich real quick? I got a tuna sandwich. Oh my God, no. Yeah, no. Anything but that. Mom, you know I like egg salad better than tuna sandwich. Oh, come on.

Anything salad right here. We've had tuna salad sandwiches for the last two weeks straight. This is how, this is how, this is how, my own food, this is how warped up, I warped I was in my mind when I found out, when I figured out sex, like, oh, fuck, then the next thing I thought was, my parents have sex, gross,

and then the third thing that I thought was, ew, my parents have had sex four times because they had four kids. I literally thought, they had four kids. I literally thought. They had four times. Yeah, that's crazy. I literally thought they had sex four times. Yeah, and that was it.

Yeah, that's buddy. Yeah, then later on, I was like, oh. Oh, they do this for recreation too. And then, is it awkward now? Like, you have kids, right? And we're talking to our parents now, and they're so open about it. And you're just like, ew.

Oh, I hate it. No, we're not on that level so open about it. You're just like ew No, we're not on that level. Yeah, you're still my mom and dad fucking right. I don't want to talk I hate it. I remember I mean I had a conversation at the long go my mom and she's like She's like, oh, you know, you're you I don't remember how the conversation started and my mom was like Yeah, you probably take take after your dad. mean, he can't keep his hands off me. That man I swear, he's like an 18 year old kid all the time. I'm at dad's in the back like, mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what I'm like.

And I'm like, are you fucking serious right now? Yeah. Like you guys, you guys, then you can't keep his hands off me. Yeah, you guys didn't mention sex ever until now. I don't want to hear it now. Now I know about that shit. This is a conversation we should have had before. Katrina's family is very much so like this.

Like her mom is like awkwardly open about it. And it's taken, I mean, we're together six years now. So obviously I've learned to roll with it and have fun with it. You scared, kind of smile. Oh yeah, no, but we'll be like sitting at the dinner table like normal conversation and like honey, your skin is glowing. You guys must be having great sex lately.

Oh, that's like, oh, and that's her mom. Yeah, it's her mom. Yeah. Or like if, if there's something going on between us or she's like, she's venting that, oh, I've been a pain in the ass to deal with lately, well, have you been giving him blow jobs lately? Oh my god. Where'd it go, ma? Where'd it go, ma? You're like, you're the best mother of mom. Yeah. The whole time. Oh, God. Yeah. and then I remember, like, as a kid. Roadhead. As a kid, every time I saw a pregnant lady,

I was like, I know what you did. I know how that got there. You had dick. Oh, yeah. So disgusting. That made that happen. Yeah, that's pretty gross. Yeah, anyway.

Yeah, I think what I want to do on air is just, you know, just let everybody know that me and Adam were still friends. Oh, yeah. It's funny. We like each other. That's so funny. It's funny how some people know.

I think that like there's this animosity between the two of us or that we just don't, I mean, I couldn't be any closer or consider myself more of a friend, but I also think that it's just comes across wrong, because I mean, the guy that we really hate is Justin. Yeah. But, you know, people don't realize... We don't like to pick on him as much. No, you know what it is, I'll tell you what,

it's very difficult to find people that you can have good, honest debate in discussion with without people getting, like, butt hurt or taking it personally. It's very, very difficult. It's a hard thing to do. Most people can't do it. Most people take it personally. Well, they get personal about it

and then it turns into a tagging, which I found, I mean, for the most part, so on our forum this morning because that episode aired last night and I posted on there, are you aware and it created all this great dialogue, which that was the purpose of this was to create great dialogue, which I, that was the purpose of this was

to create great dialogue on a great debate that you and I had on the show. And only one person that I see on there, you know, oh, I just, I thought it went on too long ago. It was for the sake of arguing. I'm not at all. I don't think Sal and I ever interrupted or yelled over the top or started taking insults. I think he would explain a point and then I would disagree, then he would disagree with me,

but I mean, each person allowed the other person to come in. I think that's a healthy thing for people to see and understand that, I mean, in light, we're not gonna agree, people are not gonna agree with other people, I mean, that's just how we are, right? Everybody has to have their individual views. And I think the takeaway from that is, you can totally disagree with somebody and

get your point across and have an opinion and debate it openly. To me, I didn't feel like I was arguing. No, I think I'd feel arguing at all. Debate and argument and discussion is part of learning. Yes. Communication. It has to be because. Could you imagine if you all you ever are, you know, if the only people you surround yourself with and the only people you ever talk to are people that 100% agree with you. Yeah. What ends up happening with that is what you see with a lot of celebrities. When you see celebrities who seem totally out of touch and a little bit crazy in their own world, it's because they've surrounded themselves with all these yes-men. Yeah. And everything they say, everything they do, people laugh at, people think they're awesome. and a little bit crazy in their own world. It's because they've surrounded themselves with all these yes men.

And everything they say, everything they do, people laugh at, people think they're awesome. They can't do it. And then when someone disagrees with them, it's like their whole world comes crashing down. They don't have a real good sense of self and ego because God forbid someone disagree with them. That's a problem.

Oh, I love the fact that you and I disagree on several things, not a lot, but several things we disagree on, because for, and I think we've both expressed this off air before, I don't know how many times that we've talked about something, and then it just, it makes me view it different because I respect you as an intelligent man. I think whenever you do have a debate,

I don't think you just, this is the way I think, you're an idiot, it's like you back it up with your, what makes you think this way? You support it intelligently. I like to think I do the same thing too. And then there's been many times where we both go our separate ways, and then each part, and what I love to do is,

even though I'm debating it from my point of view, I take away what you say. I already know how I feel. I'm very interested in your argument or your debate with that because. I've changed my views several times because of working with you guys because we've had many disagreements off air.

All of us, the four of us. And at the end of it, you know, and sometimes they're business disagreements, right, how we should operate and run our business. Sometimes they're, you know their disagreements in our message or how we're communicating them. But at the end of it, what tends to happen is the better position tends to come out.

Right. And many times it's not my position. Many times it's when your guys is positioned. But at the end of it, I don't care who came up with it. What I want is, I want better communication. I want is, you know, more, you know, I want better, you know, better communication, I want better truth, I want more answers. I don't care who's right. If I just care what the answer is, I don't care if I thought one plus one was three.

If you're saying it's two and we argue in debate and I've got good points, you got good points, but then at the end of it, I look at the answer and I go, well, fuck, I was wrong. Yeah. The only way to get to truth is to hear multiple directions, multiple angles from that same topic. And so, you know, like, and this is too something I picked up from you as far as, you know, going on to other people's forums and other people's

thought process as far as like, you know, where are they coming from? Like, why do they believe so passionately in this one specific topic? And you're never gonna really like have a solid argument unless you fully understand like the opposing. So true. Yeah, so true.

And that totally, you know, that resonated with me. And, you know, I've definitely sought more information that was counter to how I've learned, you know, and like what I've gone through in school. And I feel like like mind pump really is that. It's like it's a lot of challenging, like common thought and things that we've learned. So that's what I commend you for. A quote that really resonated with me a long time ago was seek to understand rather than seek to be understood. And I have lots of examples of that in fitness. I'll give you one of them. It is a very specific one.

My opinion of those vibrating plates, you know, those, what are they called? The power plates. Power plates. My opinion on those has changed dramatically since the start of mind plowing. Oh God, we can list a bunch of things. But I'm using that as a specific example and I'll tell you why, why, how it's changed. Number one, sometimes what you need to understand is someone may be correct in the position. They just can't argue it properly. So because they can't argue it properly, you immediately disagree and then you don't want to listen anymore.

Great point. But what you should do is you should try to seek to understand where they're coming from. Because sometimes you listen and you go, wait a minute, you were just arguing it wrong, but I think you may be right. And one of them was like the power play. I heard people saying, oh, the power play makes you unstable and it helps you become stronger because it's different I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, you'll get more strength on a stable surface. You're going to, it's not, you know, this whole, this whole vibrating thing doesn't make any sense. Whatever.

Gimiki. It's gimmicky. And so then when I dive deeper and I started using one, I started realizing that the vibrations from the plate really what it's doing is it's getting my central nervous system to step out a little bit and to relax a little bit, which allows me to go into deeper ranges of motion that I may not be able to normally get in because I don't have necessarily strength within those ranges of motion. Because when you apply a vibrating force on your body, your muscles have a tendency to turn off and on at very, very micro, very, very micro-second type of scale. Like you vibrate your quads, your muscles have a tendency to want to fire, not on, a very, very micro, a very, very micro-second type of scale. Like you vibrate your quads, your muscles have a tendency to want to fire,

not fire, fire, not fire. It creates this interesting feeling and sensation and that allows you to move into deeper ranges of motion. Now, nobody'd fucking argued it that way to me. So to me, when the way they were arguing it, I was arguing it to me, I was like, no, I disagreed the whole time. But I went back and I really tried to seek to understand

what they were talking about. And I started testing it and I started looking deeper into the science. And I said, wow, in many cases, I can see how these people are right with their application of this power play. And that's just one example. I was wondering how they were arguing it beforehand. I think it was more along the lines of like it activates more muscles at once.

Which is like a bad argument. Right, it's a bad argument. They're just saying that you're contracting more muscles at once and the recruitment is louder. That's not the case. Like you said, the true benefit to it that we've seen is that it helps you just sort of dampen the signal. Yeah, relaxes the scene. Relax, you can get more range of motion, you know, like it. And I've always, and I've kind of looked at it like that, but I didn't really realize

too. Like that's how I've been using it more for stretching and more for, you know, getting that kind of response. It's the same reason why massagers, you know, the old school back massagers where you put the vibrating, you know, now of course people use them to masturbate, but yeah, I'm talking about the big head, with the big knob, when you put that on a tight muscle, you'll get relief from it, but because why?

What's it doing? It's getting the CNS to kinda, it's almost like, what's the word I'm trying to use? It's like confusing the signal. And so the signal kinda dampens because it's confusing the signal a little bit. And that's what it does. And so when the argument is better now,

it makes sense to me, but I had to seek to understand. Another one is, like when I ever I talk to anybody who performs Chinese medicine, I initially, I had to go through this process of where I'm at now, and I'm still on a process but I'm still learning more and more. But initially, to me, Chinese medicine and the theories behind Chinese medicine was hogwash.

It was hogwash because of the way that they were explaining it. When they're sitting there talking to me about these meridians in this cheat, or when I hear people with aeravetic medicine talk about shock res and there's zero scientific evidence for some of the stuff that they're talking about, to me, I shut off. Yeah, well, it becomes more religious and spiritual.

Yeah, I shut off and be like, that's not fucking making sense. However, when you really look at the human body and how it reacts and responds to certain things, and you see things like referred pain, or if I touch you here, it affects this part of your, this distal part of your body, or if we, you know, when I start to understand, when I start

to look at it from that angle, I say, wow, there's lots of, there is lots of potential benefit from things like acupuncture, acupressure. And when Chinese medicine, you know, comes out with herbs and says, you know, these are hot herbs and these are cold herbs and they work with this that and the other. If I start to define from a Western medicine standpoint, what hot and cold mean, I can see now some of them are stimulating in different ways and some of them are calming in different ways and that's what they mean. And so I'm seeking to understand and so because of that now I can see the validity and

what they're saying. And so that's one of the things that I think is real important that we try to do and like with our recent discussions about awareness and what that means, it's two things, A, it helps me understand how my argument is coming across. And I think for myself, and I'm only gonna focus on me for now, I think the way that I sometimes present things, and it's just my nature. So I wanna be clear, my nature is, I'm a very passionate

individual and I'm very good at arguing a position that I may feel and that may come across as pompous or it may come across as arrogant and You know if someone were to call me that now it would not be the first time That's that's happened many many times and so I can understand you opposing positions. And I think some of the positions you were taking Adam were to kind of lighten that, maybe lighten that position or make it or come from a different angle. Well, and I wanted you to, and that's exactly exactly what it was was, I know you. So I always

know when you're delivering a message like that, it's very pure and It's it's coming from a point that you're trying to help people and help people become more aware and connected But I also know too that there's probably 20,000 people Literally that day that are listening to that episode that maybe the first time they've ever heard Sal talk about something And so I want to say something that I think that maybe 20% of them or something maybe thinking because I want them to hear you articulate your answer and explain it in more depth so they get it versus just shutting you off because they're like, oh he just thinks he's you know I'm saying so and I think that's something that a lot of people don't understand too is that when we get into that there's a lot of times where I will challenge what someone is saying, not because I technically disagree, even if I say I disagree, I want to create that dialogue, because I think it's a good dialogue, I think it's a great topic,

and that's why I don't want to go. I never just started to get a little uncomfortable when you wanted to redirect and go the direction. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want to leave this because I think this is good dialogue that we're having, even though we're disagreeing, and we're going back and forth. That's not even that.

A lot of it is really for me just listening to you guys. I know exactly what you guys are doing. You know, it's just, it's more of like, I think the overall tone can kind of take a little bit like more of like two, you know, like it, I want to make sure people understand that we're still, you know, this is a playful banter, but at the same time it's challenging each other. So it's definitely a fine line. And I love, I love when you guys get into it and express yourselves in that way,

because it does. It engages a better conversation at a deeper level. So a lot of times people, like that's why people get uncomfortable is because when things get deeper, you start to self-reflect and you're like, oh my God, you start really peering into what the root of sometimes people

like how they see things. This is what it really excites me about, finally getting to get Lane Norton to talk with us, because I hope that he has this ability to converse this way about IFYM because I hope it doesn't turn into just a show me the studies that show that you know this or show me the studies that don't show you that versus let's talk about the position that you're taking and I'm going to explain the reason why I take this the position that I take and then

together we can have a healthy debate so people can kind of get an understanding. Because to me, when we talk about that, and that's kind of like the post I did recently, where I talk about what sucks about IFAM, I'm not saying that it doesn't work, and I'm not saying it hasn't worked with for tons of people, and it's not like, oh, two each their own, no,

it's trying to get people to understand that that's only one step. You know, that's only one step in the right direction. Like, you've, okay, awesome. You've now learned what a protein carbon fat is and what too much of those are and what not enough of those are in your diet. Now let's start diving into all these little foods

and different choices and food patterns that you have. Because I'll tell you right now, you know, thousands of people that all of us have been, that have tried, and this is where I know, like, this is where I can't wait to get laying in the room and we can discuss things, is, you know, when you're somebody who does studies and that's, and you're, in your very, very intelligent and book smart, that's awesome. And that is definitely someone I love to surround myself with because I want to hear where they're coming from and all the information that they've learned, but there's something to be said about applied science too and actually dealing with people in real world and realizing

wow, there's a major psychological component that comes to this and there's so much more than meets the eye. Well, dealing with all the other variables. Yes. Not just keeping yourself within like two frames of thought. Well, you know, look, here's the thing, like when you hear these topics and they're making you uncomfortable,

something that I've been told by several people and it didn't really ring home until rather recently, is that many times when you find something uncomfortable or you find someone irritating that it has something to do with yourself, that there may be something within that that you don't like about yourself and that's what's really bothering you. And I really try to make a point now to acknowledge that because I'll see someone be a certain way and I'll be like, oh, I hate that person. And I'm like, well, why? Why do they get on my nerves? And there's a piece of it that, maybe I see in myself, that I may not, you know, I mean, I may not like, you know, that may irritate

me about myself. And so it comes out that way. And it's easier to direct it at someone else. Yeah. Then it is to direct it yourself. The other thing is, being uncomfortable is what growth happens. Yeah. There is no growth from being comfortable at all. You have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations in order to challenge yourself and in order to grow, but you have to also be open to grow. Otherwise, what happens is you just yell at each other and nothing ever happens.

This is something I just recently talked about. I've been getting a lot of messages inboxed to me about like, you know, that I've talked about that specific fact that it's been uncomfortable for me this whole journey in the very beginning to express myself and vocalize my opinions and be a part of the conversation because for me, you know, it's always like a real tight group. It's a two to three max. That's kind of where my comfort zone lies. However, if I'm to give any advice or anything about not

being introverted or getting over the shyness, like really all it is is just exposing yourself to that environment being uncomfortable, going through the hurdles as they come at you. You can't just sit back and have things happen to you. And you have to just change your train of thought and decide that day that, okay,

you know, I'm gonna immerse myself in this, things are gonna happen, I'm gonna get uncomfortable, I'm gonna say dumb shit. People are gonna have opinions about me because of my opinions thrown back. And that's okay. And I'm gonna work my way out of it. And through this experience is really brought

to light a lot more of who I am, who I am as a person, and then how everybody else sees me. It's kind of, it's therapy. This whole process has been therapy for me. Well, I have a question for you. Being that guy that's like that, because when you say that, I'm like going back and thinking of like, what made me the other person that's not afraid of that? And just, I love to do that and embrace that all the time.

And I think, this is why I'm very grateful of my childhood and the things that I went through early on, like, you know, living in nine different homes, growing up as a kid and, you know, moving to different cities and a new school and, you know, trying different sports and... Force to? Yes, exactly. It force me. And I don't forget, all those days are very vivid to me.

The first day walking on a new campus, being the new kid, not knowing anybody, just leaving a place where I had lots of friends and got along with people starting all over like that. Like, I remember, that was not an exciting day for me. It was dreadful, it was scary, I was nervous. But then I also met some of my best friends then, and it became one of my favorite places.

And, or a sport that I was very nervous to play because I'm the new guy in town and now nobody knows me or knows what I am capable and I don't wanna screw up and all these fears and things are going through my, but then I do it and then it ends up being my favorite team or my favorite sport that I play with. Or, you know, so I think I got a chance to practice

that so much at a young age that now is an adult when there's something that scares me or something that I'm uncertain of, I get excited actually. I go towards it. Yeah, I'm like, you know what? Because you know what, I know that what's going to come out of this is something great. I'm either going to grow from it and realize it's not for me or I may be finding out this is something I'm going to love and do for the rest of my life or it'd be a part of it.

So, you know, is that kind of how the thinking goes now or what has that been? Absolutely. Yeah, like I always, I look and I seek out opportunities for me to make myself uncomfortable. Like, especially, like when we were doing our speaking engagements at Orange Theory or like when we were speaking in public, that used to just terrify the shit out of me. You know, that used to be one of the things where I just don't like, I don't like being in a position where everybody's hanging on every word I'm saying. You know, that's just something that just drives this crazy like anxiety and fear with me.

And so like, so I know that about myself. And so as I'm in the process, it was more of just me mentally recognizing that and just turning that on its head and saying, no, I am gonna be comfortable in this. Not only am I gonna be comfortable in this, I'm gonna enjoy this. And it's just a different mentality that you just have to apply,

and you have to find that within yourself. And not only that, I mean, there's been a lot of situations like that where I don't know shit about this topic or I don't know anything about this since I feel unqualified, but you know what, I'm gonna pursue it.

And I know that I'm weak in this area. I know as a trainer, my biggest weakness in the beginning was that I didn't know that I'm weak in this area. I know like as a trainer, my biggest weakness in the beginning was that I didn't know that much about nutrition. And I knew that because I started talking to nutritionists. And so that's what I did. I sought out nutritionist, you know, dietitians. And I tried to incorporate them with my clients. And then I started picking their brain. And that led me down a hole. And I'm like, I gotta get better at this. You know? It's interesting because many times the thought of something

is far worse than the thing itself. Of course. Many, many times. I mean, of course, the situations were the thing itself is terrible. But for the most part, all the things that we fear and that give us anxiety are things that, once we get in and do them, we're like,

well, that wasn't, it reminds me of like, when you were a kid and you went to the doctor to get a shot and you're just fucking freaking out. Oh my God, I don't want it. And then you get the shot and it's over and you're like, well, that wasn't too bad. That wasn't too bad at all.

It's literally like that. That we create this reality around ourselves where we're terrified to do the whatever thing it is, whether it be to you know change your nutrition, work out in a new gym, go speak in front of people, you know whatever, it's the thought of things that are very difficult, it's not the actual thing itself and so you got to kind of remind yourself like okay right now I'm not in that situation that I'm terrified in so I'm okay and when you get to that situation I'll deal with it

at that moment. It doesn't mean you shouldn't prepare or anything. It just means that that type of anxiety and fear really isn't serving you past a certain point. Up to a certain point, it'll serve you, might help you become more prepared, it might help you learn more. But at some point, you gotta look at,

you gotta ask yourself, like, is this really, am I benefiting at all from any of this? And usually it's no. You know what I mean? Don't you feel like a lot of this too is like, people for some reason is humans, like we tend to gravitate towards our comfort zone. Like we don't like getting out of that. And we like to feel comfortable in our routine,

comfortable in our relationship, comfortable in our job, like this desire to find normalcy. You know what's funny? So if you look at like modern society, right? It's, this is the best time to be alive at any time in human history. Explain that because I know some people are going

like disagreeing right now. Well, because they're just, because of what's fed to them immediately. Yeah, but no, and explain that because you've talked about this before. By all objective measures, access to, I'm talking about being in the modern world, right? You have more access to food, shelter, clothing,

basic necessities, you have access to information. You can walk around for the most part and not be afraid of being raped, killed, or robbed. You know, if you go back a thousand years, that was something you thought about every single know, if you go back a thousand years, that was something you thought about every single day. If you go back a thousand years, you had to think about like, oh shit, I cut my hand. And I got a-

Companies are countries invading your country. It's all these things. It's just, you know, and for the most part, if you live in modern Western societies, it's just by all objective, you know, measures, it is the best time to be alive, especially if you're a woman, a minority, or anything else, you get, you know, it's just a lot better now.

It's not perfect, but it's just the best time. And yet we see mental illness, depression, anxieties, you know, people, you know, committing suicide. It's at a rate that it's rate that it hasn't gone down, not only hasn't not gone down, but in some cases, it's gone up. And you have to ask yourself why, why are all these things happening?

Why are we mentally sicker than we've been in a long time? And why are things like suicide rates climbing in certain populations? And a lot of it has to do with the fact that, we have all this stuff, we have all these things, we have all this comfort, we have more space in our homes than we've ever had, we have more clothes than we've ever had.

I mean, raise your hand if you have more than one pair, shoes, a one pair of clothes, raise your hand if you have a roof, if you have electricity, water. You know, that's most people listening right now, actually probably all of you listening because you're listening to Donald Podcast, which means you have some kind of a smart phone. I saw a bum with an iPod. I had seen a bum with an iPhone, dude. And so you have to ask yourself, we're at your right. We're tough time yourself.

We're tough. She got there. You had new sneakers. You had a ball cap, a nice jacket, an iPhone. I'm like, fuck, this is where we're at now. And it's not perfect, but you have to ask yourself, why we have all these issues. And I don't think it lies in the fact that we need more comfort and more stuff. I think it maybe is in the fact that we don't go out and learn through difficult situations as much.

We don't challenge ourselves as much. We don't value the things that give us true value. Like we should. A lot of our connection with each other can be false. You have 400 Facebook friends and you can be in contact with all these people. On one level, that's amazing. But on the other level, how many of those people are going to be there for you, some shit, really fucking goes down. Physically. Yeah. So, I think a lot of it comes from that.

And you're also seeing more and more people, I know people are saying, oh, the country's more divided now, things are more divisive. And this is, I believe, because we seek out people that want to, more agree with us. Like, I go on these forums on Facebook and I, because I love politics, economics, I love debating certain things.

And it's an echo chamber. Like all they're doing is like nobody's debating. Everybody's agreeing. Yeah, everyone's, yeah, right. Isn't that funny when you get that? It's just everybody who agrees with each other. All in one form, bashing so much. And then if you disagree,

if you disagree with someone, you're outcast. They don't want to debate with you and discuss with you what they want to do is silence you. You're in a situation when that just recently this morning. Didn't she want you talking to somebody and they're just like, it was in politics and we were having a discussion and I don't need to go in the details, but we were having a discussion. And I'm trying to have an objective discussion. I'm psych, okay, let's look at these numbers. Let's look at these facts. Here's what's going on. This person saying, no, this is my personal experience.

I'm saying, well, my personal experience was different. However, those are anecdotes and his response was, I hate debating with ignorant people and I'm done now. I can't discuss this with you any further because you're obviously an idiot or something like that. I was like, what? That's called, I lost them out here. Well, forget that, it's just, I don't wanna,

yeah, I don't wanna engage, you know engage. Yeah, I want you silenced. I want you to shut up, which is very different than I disagree with you. That's a problem. So when we have our open discussions, I mean, the debate and discussion was on awareness. And I'll tell you what it forced me to do. It helped me understand my position

and be able to articulate a little bit better because I don't think I did a good job articulating it before. And I think when people, when we talk about things like being aware, when we're talking about eating our relationships with food, relationships to ourselves, relationships to exercise, I personally don't feel like I explained enough how there's different layers to it and how simply being aware of consequences is a layer of awareness, but is not a place. It is not the, it is not, you're not done. And I'll give you guys an example. I have a friend who has a father, very intelligent man. And this is an extreme example, of course.

Very, very intelligent man. He was decorated at his previous job, successful by all measures in terms of finance and business. But he has battled with alcoholism for a lot of his adult life. And he is now in full-blown alcoholic mode. Doctors have told him, look, you have, your liver is not gonna survive another couple years of this.

You're going to kill yourself. He is fully 100% aware of the consequences. He knows what he's doing to his body. So on that level, he's aware. But what he has decided to his body. So on that level, he's aware. But what he is what has he decided to do with that information is in is another layer of being unaware. Does that make sense? Like he's not looking at the root cause of what's causing him to be alcoholic and he wants to get to the point where he ignores and this is an extreme case, an extreme example. He's ignoring the consequences and saying, I don't care.

When in reality, it's the decision to be, to stop at a certain level of awareness, because any more awareness brings more light to the problem, which brings more pain and brings more, you know, having to, you know, I have to grow now through this, right? And so when we talk about relationships, the food, and, you food and we're debating back and forth about what it means to be aware, and some of the things I said came across as arrogant, what I mean to say is definitely knowing the consequences and understanding what you're doing yourself

is the next step, because before that is not knowing. Before that is, I don't know that I'm doing things that are hurting my body, or I'm doing things that don't make me feel good, or I don't know that this may be not the right way to eat, or maybe the way I'm eating may be a poor relationship to food. Knowing is then becoming conscious and aware

of what's going on, but then what you do with that now takes you to the next step, and that I think is a very difficult step. I was, when it came to supplements, and some of the stuff I did to my body was supplements. I was, for me, I was there for a long time, man. I knew what I was doing. I knew some supplements I was taking were really good for me, but I continued to take them because I just felt like whatever.

I don't care. I'm just going to keep taking them because I like them. I'm having a good time. And so for me personally speaking, of course everybody has their own, throw path, it took me a long time to finally stop, to stop doing that. And then when I got out of it,

looking back, it seemed so obvious, but when I was in, it was very difficult to kind of recognize that. Well, I think the problem with that one is that there's so many bias studies that are out there that I mean, I literally was just talking to somebody right now before we got on about, you know, her taking branch chain amino acids and stuff.

And I feel like there's just, people are flooded with this information and being told that it's so important. It was, it took until I got into competing before I completely kicked it because, then I realized- Because you were measuring- Yes, because I was so precise about,

I had never been to that point, right? I had never been so precise on measuring every single thing, all the way to the how many ounces of water was going into my system every single day. And I tracked that religiously for over two years during that whole time of competing. And while I was doing that, I experimented with a lot of things.

Like I would allow protein bars and shakes in my diet. And I would take branch channel. We asked it's include of me and stuff. And when I started to realize like, oh my god, like there's no real difference. In fact, I actually liked the way that my physique looked and felt when I wasn't taking some of the stuff, I became very fascinated with that. Like, whoa, you know, for so long, I felt like I needed to take this creatine. I needed to take these branch, you know what I said? I needed to make sure I'm getting this,

I need to make sure I'm getting that. And, you know, I don't wanna miss anywhere. And, you know, if I'm this dial, like this is gonna give me the competitive edge. And, you know, and I justified in my head that as, you know, at this level, this is the I should be taking it, because I'm at that level.

And everybody wants to be at that level, whether you are not, we tell ourselves that we wanna be at that level. And we see what these pros, or we see what these people are taking and doing. And so we think in our heads that I too, I'm gonna take that because I wanna be at that level. And maybe this is a step in that direction.

Yeah, I think any of these performance pursuits, where you're trying to get to the pinnacle. A lot of people just like they want to coach because they want to be mindless in the process of it because they by any means necessary, I want to get to to this pinnacle of my performance a goal or whatever it is. And so I mean a lot of times like you kind of reflect back like, you know, how was I feeling during this process? You start picking up on what you were doing and the things that led to aches, pains, or certain issues you had with your gut

and the way that you were pooping or whatever it was. All these things that were signs and signals that you just hammered through because like your end goal is always like so important. And this is that athletic mind, you know, and regardless of what it is if you're competing for on stage, it's just such a... It's ingrained in us growing up. Like it really is something that is desired. Yeah, do it by all means necessary. It's even the slogan of Nike, you know, just do it.

Yeah. I think the whole, what pops in your mind is the whole what if, well, you know, it's probably not doing anything for me, but what if it's doing something for me? What if it's helping me a little bit? I'd rather take the chance if it doing something good than not doing it at all. Right, rather than saying.

That was my way of thinking. Exactly. I know exactly what, because I do the same thing. And rather than saying, what if this is doing nothing or what if this is actually hurting, what if this is actually detrimental to not only my goals, but also to my wallet, to my mental state, the fact that I'm, you know, that I'm,

why do I feel so compelled to have to take this regimented supplement routine regime, for example, this is my mentality at least. Why do I feel so compelled to have to do this on a daily basis? What happens if I stop? What happens if I stop taking it? You know, the first thing that happens is you get anxiety.

It's not an anxiety over it. Oh my God, I stopped taking the supplements. Now what's gonna happen? Nothing's happened yet, like, relax. Like like let's just see what's going on. It's even like When people I tell people to change their workout routines when I tell people hey, I know you've been doing your Body parts split for a very long time. Why don't you try this workout? You know like maps or whatever. Obviously that's our program. So that's what I recommend Why don't you try this out and they're always like well?

You know, what if I go backwards? Like what if I, and it's like, you're not gonna lose all your gains in the matter of three weeks, you know what I mean? It's like, it's just crazy fear of what's gonna happen. And it's also this unhealthy connection to their current workout routine. This health, like if I said,

I've had clients who do cardio every day, day in and day out, metabolic damage. And I tell them, this, like if I said, I've had clients who do cardio every day, day in and day out, metabolic damage, and I tell them, listen, we're going to have to reduce some of your cardio. And it just, it induces a level of anxiety in them. And when I try to get them to acknowledge it, sometimes they don't, sometimes they don't want to. Sometimes they do, and it gets worse, right? They acknowledge it and they're like, oh fuck, I don't realize how much of an addiction or connection, poor connection, I had to it.

And it becomes more evident and now things get a little worse at first. And sometimes that's what happens. At first, you become more aware and things kind of suck a little bit more before they start to get better. And I feel like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, IAM, and nutrition, people go the extreme with us. And they say, oh, you guys demonize bad foods and you guys think everybody should be perfect all the time. And that is not, that's not our message. What's so ever? That's not the message. But in fact, there are healthy reasons for eating foods that are, quote, unquote, physically

unhealthy. Okay. eating foods that are quote unquote, physically unhealthy, okay? They're definitely our potential benefits, wellness benefits to sometimes enjoying a cake, a piece of cake. Now, what could those be, right? From a physical standpoint, that cake has almost zero benefits to me,

unless I'm starving and I need some kind of calorie or whatever, there's zero benefit for meeting cake on a physical, biological level. But could it contribute to my wellness in a positive way? Sure. Maybe I'm celebrating a birthday. Maybe I'm enjoying the taste. How often do we actually savor the taste of foods

that we consider cheat meals? Cheat foods. Have you ever watched somebody, especially a person in fitness who's really into fitness? Have you ever watched them eat a cheat meal? Very rarely do they, they don't savor it. It's not like they're eating it and enjoying it and saying they enjoy it. It is literally what they're doing is they're inhaling it. They're smashing through it, but what they're doing is they're treating this symptom

that they have with this quick, oh, get full. Oh, I feel relief. That's what happens. Well, and I feel relief now. And then what they do is they sort of train themself as it's like a reward system. Yes. I've been good for two weeks.

I deserve this. I've been good for what I deserve this. And then now you're starting to, and I think that's the message to get across here is learning to connect that, you know, going back, circling back to the supplements, you know, a big thing that opened my eyes too, and I challenge those that are still taking their branched-hand amino acids, their glutamine, their creatines, all their protein powders, all their bars are still doing those things, and they're like, oh no, when I'm doing all that,

I am in the best shape I've ever been. I feel the best, okay, well, I challenge you to step back what I had to do and realize was, well, you know what really what happens when I'm doing all that, I'm the most regimen and consistent with everything else, with everything else when I'm doing that. I'm not missing my workout, I'm making sure I'm making good food choices, I've spent this money on all the supplements, so it causes me to do, to work out, train harder, to do these things.

It's not really the supplement that's giving me the great results. It's the mentality that I now have because I'm taking them. It's now giving me this consistency. That's where the real results, that's where the real benefit. It's not the $150 that I'm spending on all the bars,

the shakes, and all the other bullshit. That's what reminds me of multivitamin studies. Some of the early studies on multivitamin showed that when people took multivitamins, they were healthier. Some studies showed that they lived longer. But what they didn't tease out of that was, and now that they've done it,

they've found that it doesn't really do anything. What they didn't tease out of that was that people who tend to take multivitamins also tend to care to about their health. Yeah, like who who tend to take multivitamins also tend to care about their health Yeah, like who goes and buys a multivitamins someone who doesn't give a shit about their health or somebody who cares I get it's like the cigarette studies back, you know, or the excuse me the coffee studies in the past like oh coffee Right is very unhealthy well they didn't tease out the fact that people who smoke cigarettes like to drink coffee as well So that's been thrown into the mix

So you know when it comes to comes to taking supplements and stuff like that, that's why sometimes you gotta look at the studies a little deeper. IIFLAM or tracking and all that stuff is another layer of that. Look, if you're going to have a first step of awareness. It is, you're now counting. But when I coach people, my goal is to get them to not have to count.

Right. I have to have more of an intuitive way of eating to the point where they don't eat unhealthy, not because they're not supposed to, not because it's bad, not because they want to be lean, not because they want to be muscular, but because they just simply don't want to. And that's a hard place to get to and it takes a while to get there. But that's a hard place to get to and it takes a while to get there. But before I can even attempt to get there, I got a track. I have to see what you're eating.

We have to add things up. We have to connect the dots. We have to see what your protein's fats and carbohydrates look like. I have to give you targets. So you can see how you feel when you hit certain targets. I have to give you other targets so we can see how you feel.

We have to change your calories so that you can experience what it's like having a low calorie day, so that you can experience what it's like having a low calorie day, so that you can experience what it's like fasting, and so that you break the chains of the small meals all day long, and I have to give you days where you eat a lot of food, and that you're okay with feeling full. And these are all parts of getting down,

getting to that process, and I've seen, in our industry, at least, with IAF, IAM, lots and lots of people are stuck in it to the point where it becomes very poor relationship to food and that's one of my main. And then of course my other objection to it is they go so extreme with it and say there are no good or no bad foods or there are no foods that are better and no foods that are worse, which is, whoa, you just took everything and went to the absolute extreme to the point where it's bullshit now Well, and you're not allowing yourself to start connecting the dots to what is driving you towards these types of foods

That and I think that's the point to be made here is that nobody is demonizing a food nobody is denying I'm a denying I have popcorn. I'm a denying and I have a cheeseburger. Why are you so defensive over specific foods? Yeah, I'm not it's there's none of that like that. It's just understanding that, hey, what drives me to go want this? And that's the thing that we're trying to get across. I mean, if people, it's so funny how defensive everybody got with the IFYM thing, it's just like,

you know, dude, relax. We're no one saying that you can't use it as a tool. I'm just saying evolve, go beyond that. Don't just stop there. Good job. You figured out how to not get fat or good job. You figured out how to lean down and build muscle and eat these macronutrient foods

that help you head in the right direction. Just continue evolving and push yourself. It's the same mentality. When we talk about fasting and the ketogenic diet, fans of both of them, but I do not teach my people that until I've taught them a solid foundation. First, it's because if you start, if I just taught somebody, hey, follow this ketogenic diet and they come back to me like, holy shit at them, I looked the best I've ever looked at. That is, I didn't do my job. I

didn't. Sure, I got them in shape. Sure, I might have answered their first, got them to their first goal, which was getting in the best shape of their life, but I haven't really taught them how to connect the dots yet on what, why that happened and how you feel and all these other things that are going on when you're eating this way. There's so many layers to this that you don't want to just stop there. You don't want to just say this way of eating results in this. And if I'm any, I'm either, either or, you know, it's not this black or white thing. Right.

It's, with it, what happens when you start to track, you start to pay attention, you start to notice, okay, this food has this, this food has that, I can follow this profile and I can feel better as a result from it because now I'm actually paying attention to certain things. But if you get stuck in that, what ends up happening is you become, it's a constant worry.

I'm constantly thinking about macros. I'm constantly thinking about calories. And then it turns into what can I fit in this macro-pulf profile of foods that are not good for me, but God, I want them so bad. And then it becomes that kind of an unhealthy obsession. And I see it on Instagram all the time. When you see a lot of these die hard, IIFAM,

fanatics, fitness professionals, and you look at the pictures on their Instagram and a majority of the pictures are things like cake and ice cream and sugary cereal. What they're doing is they're demonstrating their obsession with food Mm-hmm, and that's it's become an obsession to the point where that becomes that's what they want to post Yeah, all the time of course we talk about the message that that sends across and I don't think that they're trying to send a bad message Necessarily, but I think some people see it and get the wrong you know get a bad message like oh look at this asshole who says you can eat all the stuff

Unlook that way or, oh, these things are perfectly healthy and I should be elitist. But what it is obviously showing is someone's obsession with food. Some of these, a lot of these things. They post more food than food pages, dude. Yeah, this was my message of that post, really. It wasn't really so much to attack eye-eye for eye-eye

directly. It was to attack the men and women out there that are making these posts and that consider themselves fitness professionals, that consider themselves some of the leaders in the industry or that are personal trainers, and this is the message that they're sending to, and they have clients. It's like shame on you. I'm not saying that I don't have those same desserts every once in a while like you do too, and I can maintain my physique. I'm not saying that I don't have those same desserts every once in a while like you do too And I can maintain my my physique. I'm not saying that what I'm saying is why would you continue to promote that when you're trying to help people?

You're not really helping them to me and this is kind of off in left field, but like for me My immediate reaction like seeing people get so tied into just like this is a focus and like this kind of foods okay It incorporate my life and I need to have this in my routine They don't really they don't look at food as having medicinal properties, right? Like so if food if you actually organize food in such a way where it can benefit your body and heal you from the inside. You're trying to tell me that now I can put this food into that mix and it's not going to affect me. That's just fucking stupid.

It's very true and I'll use another example. There's people out there who truly love to exercise. Now, it's not because they're fanatical about needing to look a certain way. They just truly love to move and it feels good and they enjoy it and they want to do it because it's something that nourishes their body and their soul and their mind. Now, exercise hurts. Exercise is painful. Exercise challenges you. It makes you sweat. These are all physiological responses that we tend to avoid. Nobody wants to be hurt. Nobody wants to breathe hard.

Nobody wants to be sore. But why do these people enjoy exercise so much? I'll tell you why. They have connected the well-being that they get from exercise to exercise to the point where now they embrace how exercise feels. Well, this is what happens to food when you start to connect the dots. This is what I mean by what you'll find is that you'll crave or want, you know, these quote unquote bad foods less and less.

It's not because all of a sudden they taste different. Like if I eat a piece of candy, it still tastes like a piece of candy. But because of the connections I've made, I simply, and it's not like I'm thinking to myself like, no, I can't eat that. It's just, I don't want any. It's a like I'm thinking to myself like no, I can't eat that. It's just, I don't want any. It's a very different process, or if I'm eating a big plate of cooked vegetables, or if I'm eating some other foods that nourish me

and are healthy for me, I'm not eating them because I'm saying to myself like, I need to eat this, it's healthy, this needs to be in my diet. I'm eating it, I'm enjoying the process, I'm enjoying the way it's making me feel. And as a result, these are the foods that I seek out now. I actually crave them.

And look, we went on our most recent program retreat where we're creating a program, right? And that one night, and that one night we went out and we were eating, whatever we were eating, but then at the end of the night, we had bought a shit ton of vegetables. And Doug had prepared some of them and he'd put some bacon with the brussel sprouts were eating, but then at the end of the night, we had bought a shit ton of vegetables. And Doug had prepared some of them and put some bacon with the brussel sprouts and I had boiled

some of the rapini and put all the oil on it. And we were eating and we were, I mean, we were fucking enjoying it. It wasn't like we need to eat these vegetables. We were all eating it and everybody was quiet, like you get sometimes and everybody's eating certain foods because they're really fucking into it And we're really just enjoying the hell out of it and it wasn't it's you know, it's it's it's it's all about the connections The way we know we feel when we eat them the way we view these foods and like I said when you get to that point You you just don't want to you just to end up not craving certain things Now we talked about binge, when people binge eat,

or when they overeat and they get so stuffed, like the point that you wanna get to is not, or that you wanna end up, is not that you know what you're doing is wrong, and I'm just stopping myself from doing it because I'm so disciplined, and I have so much self-discipline. Like, that's like phase one, right?

Okay, now I'm self-discipline, I'm not gonna eat this. It's bad for me. I gotta fight it because I'm craving it, but I'm very self-disciplined individual. Congratulations. You've gotten to a great, you've gotten to a certain level in a step, but that's not where you wanna end up because you'll end up losing at some point. Let's some point that self-discipline will leave the go away

or you become so fanatical about it, but that self-discipline then becomes a stress to you. It becomes an anxiety to you, to the point where I work with clients all the time online, where I see how fucking stressed out they are about their food, where I literally will tell them, I don't want you to track for the next three days, and they cry.

I can't do that, I'm not ready to do that. Like you can't tell me that's a healthy relationship to food, to where you don't track for three days in a freak out, or they stress out because they go on vacation. They're gonna go on vacation and they're stressed out because now they don't not in this controlled environment with their food So that that's the point that that's that's you don't want to end up there sure you get there But then what you want to be imagine this imagine a life where you No longer stress I want to stop you right there because this is what I meant by earlier when I brought up

You know, I can't wait for the time that we get a chance to talk with Lane and we go back and forth because here's our point of view where this is at, where we debated is that in our experience, this is where people go when they get good at it. When you get good at tracking the macro and being that you become so fixated on it that it's the end all be all for you.

And that's what we're trying to do. It becomes a problem. Yeah, exactly, it's the extreme. And that's all we're trying to say. It's the end all be all for you, you know, and that's what it becomes a problem. Yeah, exactly It's the extreme and that's and that's all we're trying to say It's the same reason I feel like I have to continue to say that my pump is not like ketogenic diet fasting There's there's proponents to it that we are we are huge advocates of that we're fans of that there's health benefits behind them We lean on the healthy side of all these, like, their tools.

Yes, there's these tools. They are tools. They are not the official diet of, it's not something we're standing behind, we're trying to promote and say, this is, no, this is not for everybody. There's things to take away from this, you know, and I urge everybody,

just like I would urge somebody, if you are completely oblivious to macronutrients and you are about to make a change and you've decided that, you know what, I'm going to start paying attention to what I'm eating. I FYM is a great star. That's the place you should start. It's a great star. You have to start.

That's kind of where you always want to start. Yes, absolutely. It's a great star, a huge fan of it that way. You're talking about somebody who is completely unaware of macronutrients and calories, proteins, fats, carbs and all that. And that is a great place to start you off. But once you master IFYM, do not think for one minute that you should stop there.

It's only the beginning. No, it's a, you know what it is? It's a progression from the, I eat the same food four or five times a day every single day. That's why, that's why some people will do it and be like, oh my God, I feel so free. Because before what they were doing was breakfast was this, snack was this, lunch was this, snack was this, dinner was this,

and it's the same food all the time, perfectly portion. Right, that's why they feel like, oh my God, I'm so free now, now I just have to track my macros, and then I can fit foods in there, but then when it turns into, is this, it can turn into binging, it can turn into, I'm on or I'm off, you know, I'm saying like, oh, I'm going to a restaurant. I was taking a super extreme obsession, and it's like presenting them with a different obsession that is a little bit better.

And it turns smart people into idiots, where I get people telling me, it's calorie free, therefore it doesn't matter, consume it, as if they're saying that whatever, it doesn't matter if I put it in my mouth and it doesn't have protein fat carbs or calories, it has no effect on me then. It doesn't matter because it fits in my macros, which is false, is unequivocally false.

Everything you put in your mouth and you eat has some kind of a reaction with your a chemical reaction, biological reaction, emotional reaction. You are doing something with your body and there are changes and benefits and consequences as a result of it. And IIFAAM, many proponents go so extreme with it

that they ignore that, that it then becomes no longer important to the point where they defend, you know, artificial sweeteners and colors and, you know, preservatives and all these things, they defend it to the death because all that's important is that you don't over consume calories and that you only eat, you know, you eat the right amount of proteins, fats and carbohydrates. Well, are there arguments? It's the lesser evil, right? Like, who's better off? Somebody who's mindlessly eating and stuffing their face.

And nobody's making that argument. Yeah, and I think that's what happens is the extreme people take that side with us and it's like, dude, I'm not saying that. I'm not talking to the guy or girl that was sitting on their couch stuffing their face with no idea what's going in or in their system. And then now decides to do IFL and it's changed their life.

No, congratulations. I'm not trying to stop that or tell that person anything. What I am trying to say, those continue going, continue evolving, continue learning. And the reason why I stress it is because I've been doing this for fucking 16 years and I still am. Every time we get a new doctor on here and we talk to them, I learn something new and I take away something that,

how can I apply this to my life? Oh dude, how much is your vegetable intake increase since we talked to Dr. Terrible? I'll tell you right now, like it's, and I've been- And insane amount. And give you guys a little bit of a, those that follow me on Instagram know

that I've posted this on my Insta story this last week. So this has been, first we talked to Dr. Terry Walls and I was like, God, I am, and I already knew that I was already under eating my vegetables and that's always been something that I have to come up with. But what's funny is it's not like you weren't eating them. Yeah, what's eating them daily? Yes, you just weren't eating enough.

Yeah, no, I was not getting those six to nine cups of vegetables a day. And so I thought, okay, and I have autoimmune stuff, I have psoriasis, I've talked about that before and I have allergies. And so I thought, okay, well, this is somewhere where I can improve in my life, you know? And I've been trying to work towards it

and then recently, you know, getting on to Dr. Roger Patrick and a lot of the stuff that she puts out there, she has this shake and everything in the shake is like, all the vegetables are like hitting specific areas that I need to address in my diet and I'm like, I need to incorporate this. Now, she drinks this thing, I think every single day, which I'm not there yet. Like, I haven't incorporated enough, I haven't connected those dots yet. The first connected that I've made is awareness. I'm aware, I'm lacking all those things. So So my first step was this and I could train and I decided that this would be a goal together

We're gonna do and I said okay, I'm gonna make this shake Two to three times per week that I'm gonna start with that like just incorporating so basically Every other day or two days go by I make sure that I incorporate and then we've been doing that and so I'm just gonna watch Pay attention to how it makes me feel, connect the dots, and then I'll try to progress and start to, and it's already becoming something that's easier. I already noticed it's become an easier habit for me. I noticed too, it's starting to eliminate the cravings

for other foods, I noticed my skin, I noticed my sleep, I noticed my energy, I noticed too, the first time in my life, I've been around tons of sick people and I don't get sick. I'm always the guy, I have the weakest immune system ever, and when everybody gets sick, it's like, it's just a matter of time,

when I'm gonna get sick and whether how bad it's gonna be or not. And I'm noticing that I went right through that. All you guys got sick around me, I was around sick people, Katrina was sick, and I totally made it through that and I attributed it to that. Now, could that be just coincidence

that that happened this, but sure, and that's why I'll continue. I'll continue going down this path of incorporating it and assessing it with my how I feel. And I think that why we speak so passionately is here we are after all these years, still learning more and still creating better habits. And I mean, I noticed too,

I was like about two or three weeks ago, we went to the movies and you ever wonder why? You always want popcorn when you go there? Is there something to do? Is there something like with movies in popcorn like that, why do we all want popcorn? They've made that connection for you. Exactly want popcorn? Just so you can see. Just so you can see.

Exactly. They have made that connection for you. So. What a great example. If you have any denial over how important making connections are, think about it this way. If I say to you pancakes, when do you think about eating them? Yeah, breakfast.

Okay. That was a connection that the marketing industry, food industry made for you. Yeah, there's some cakes. Yeah, birthday. In a different form. Okay. That was a that was a connection that the marketing industry you know food industry made for you Yeah, there's cakes. Yeah, bird in a different form. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fucking cake It's literally cake right popcorn right yeah movies movies. You always think about movies like you know a steak Well, that's dinner like you these are all connections that they've made for you So all you got to do is start making them for, and you'll find in the morning, like I crave now, if I eat in the morning, usually I don't, but if I do eat in the morning, it's a large vegetable dish, which is fucking weird, because you don't

eat vegetables in the morning, ever. I'm so countercoats really. But now, but now I like, it's like, we've made the connections, like, God, that makes me feel good, whatever, that's what I want now. That's all I want. Let me tell you how strong these connections are too. So knowing that, connecting those dots, knowing that someone has made this popcorn and going to the movies connection for me and saying, I don't want to break this connection. Okay, one of the steps that we do, I tell Katrina,

let's make sure we have a big full, healthy meal, full of good, healthy fats, before, right before we go. So I'm nice and full and I'm not hungry because talk about if someone's already made that connection for you and your hungry I mean now you have to have some serious self-discipline or you say fuck it I'm gonna enjoy it right which a lot of people decide to do this So there is that that that level of awareness like saw was talking about the other day and then the next level of awareness is Okay, I'm gonna do something to help counter this connection that someone else has made for me, but guess what? When you know how powerful this, it's still there.

Of course. Right? I still go there, I'm like, holy shit. I, eight, I don't need any food. I know I don't need any food. I just had an 800 calorie meal full of fat. I should be completely satiated, but as soon as I get, well, going up that escalator and that hits, that smell hits my nose in the butter right away

I go we need to get popcorn Wow dude, wow that's what you're dealing with is You know awareness is literally dealing with levels of your ego and your ego so pervasive it is so It is who you are to the point where the deeper you go, the more you realize, oh fuck, like, I've got a lot deeper to go. The more you find out the more you don't know, right? The more you realize you don't know a goddamn thing. It's very, very, it's very challenging.

I read this the other day, it said something like the ego was like an onion. There's many layers in the deeper you go, the more you cry, like it's, oh, that's great. It's a very difficult process. I mean, it's one of these things like, imagine. That's a great one.

It's like you're arguing with someone, right? You're in a fight with your girlfriend or whatever. And she's saying, listen, you're acting like an asshole right now. You're like, no, I'm not. I'm fucking not an asshole. You're being a bitch or whatever. Yeah, you get all the time. It's literally like afterwards, like, am I being an asshole?

Let me examine this. I've sounded a lot like an asshole. Am I really doing this? Yeah, it's very difficult. It's a very difficult thing for you to do. And making these connections is very difficult. And this is one of the, here's a challenge that I have for you for listening.

If you don't track your food, if you don't look at your calories, if you're unaware of these things, your challenge is to get an app like Fat Secret and to start tracking. Don't even hit targets, just start tracking. There you go. Just so you can be aware of what you're actually consuming

on a day to day basis. It's very revealing. Here's my challenge to those of you that track religiously, okay? Stop tracking. I want you to stop tracking for the next week. And I want, and here's what'll happen. One of two things is gonna happen.

Either one, because you're not tracking anymore, you're gonna eat horribly. You're all of a sudden gonna feel like,, oh, fuck, it's just free. I'm free. I'm free of the chains of, you know, trying to eat a certain way. I'm saying, whatever the fuck I want, or you're going to, you can make the conscious effort to eat foods that nourish your body, to eat foods that you know are going to make you feel good, that actually serve you.

Both of those have lessons. Both of those are learning opportunities. And at the end of the week, go back to tracking if you want but but learn from what happened whether you went off or not I mean if you went off and went crazy what those triggers are that if you go off well what set that off it's a lot of self exploration and it's a very difficult thing and I guarantee you this right now those of you that don't track that start tracking you're gonna have an easier time than those of you who are religiously tracking right now,

and I tell you to stop tracking for a week. I bet you right now, people listening are like, oh fuck, that's just anxiety, they're sweating. They're sweating, I'm not gonna track, oh my, I'm gonna get fat, or I'm not gonna, and I'm not gonna look as aesthetic or whatever. Well, and I know this is gonna piss off some trainers, but just, it's really trying to help you,

because I know that I did the same thing too. So, we used to do this, you get a client, you mail, female, height, weight, activity level, and then boom, you spit off this meal plan. And basically it's in I have way of meal plan. It's based off of their height, their weight, their age, things like that, that you take into account, and then you spit off this diet that they should follow, right?

And you kind of customize it because you ask them what foods they like, they don't like, and then you spit off this diet that they should follow, right? And you kind of customize it because you ask them what foods they like, they don't like, and then you put together this plan for them. I stopped doing that about three years ago. I did that for 10 plus years in my trainer career until I realized, man, I really was not helping people. And it took a lot for me to look at myself and say that because it's, like you just said, the onion thing is so great. The deeper you go, the more you realize.

I want to believe I'm a great trainer. I've got changed tons of lives, helped tons of people, but when I realize, wow, I'm really not helping these people. So now, when I help somebody nutritionally, I don't give them a number. I don't give them. Let's talk about meal plans. Let's talk about, that was one thing that I always wanted to have organized.

I wanted to have it in a simplistic fashion where they could just look at that and be like, okay, man, yeah, I can do that. Like, this will last, never lasted, never worked, ever. Zero percent of the time. And I'll tell you why because people because They're trying so hard to form this into their You know, it's too clunky like they have a lifestyle setup everything that they like they don't like they've already figured that out

You know now you're trying to reduce something that's completely foreign You know the whole thing is that they're going through this process mindless. And they want, they want to keep that established. They want to, they want to keep the comfort of that where this is what I have to do to, to be healthy. This is what I, I just want to follow this and make it easy. Oh my God. How many times have you had someone say to you, just tell me what to do.

Just write down what I need to eat. Tell me what to do and I'll do it. Don't educate. Just tell us why this does not help and why it was like such an a-ha moment in my career. Was when I started to do it this way where I said, listen, do not impress me. Do not change anything. Eat exactly how you've been eating for the three months

before you met me. Just track it for me because I want to see some things. Then when I look at their diet, holy shit. Well, guess, well, and of course they know they're not eating good because they're in the position. They're in. That's why they're hiring me. But if I just put together this meal plan to get them results, sure, I can put them

in a calorie restricted, IFY type of fucking meal plan, that's going to get them ripped. But what I won't do is I won't help them with all these things that I notice with their patterns. Wow, look at this person. She's the whole week has gone by and she has missed her fiber target every single day. Wow, she's eating three times the sugar that she should be consuming on a daily basis. Wow, she's eating one and a half times the protein that she or he should be eating. Wow, this person gets hardly any healthy fats. I've got a lot of things I need to

address with this person. I'm going to pick one by one. One thing and I'm going to educate them on that. I'm going to show them how to start to make these changes and these connections to how they should feel. They, and from each, each individual nutrient. And then from there, we build their plan. We build their sustainable life long plan that there is no off or on. They just are every day getting a little bit better about the improvements. Getting more aware.

It's such a great place to be. And I got this, I can't stress this enough. It's a long journey. And there is no destination. I don't think you ever reach a point where you're, you know, this perfect, you know, Nirvana were, but it keeps, I want to get cleared to some motherfuckers out there too

that think that, you know, we're self-righteous and this is like, I'm not there. I'm still working, we're all working. I'm actually talking through my process, 100%. We're all working there. Let me tell you something, the last couple of years for me, I sort of last maybe five years for me, have been tremendous growth in this particular arena.

Had I continued on the path I was on 10, 15 years ago, I don't know what my health would be now. I definitely wouldn't be good and it might even be absolutely horrible. I might have caused something very, very bad to happen myself, but it is a complicated long process. There is no destination, but here's an example of how complicated it could be, right? Working with a client, she competes

in bikini, very regimented super track, right? So her connection to food is on that kind of neurotic level, right? And she comes at and she tells me, oh yesterday I ate a large lunch and I felt really bloated and uncomfortable. So let me tell you why this is complicated. Sometimes bloat means you ate a food that you had intolerance to. Sometimes bloat means maybe you ate something you weren't supposed to. But see this young lady eats very, very healthy. She eats very, very, so healthy in fact that having her go off tracking is more stressful to her than not, right? She eats very, very healthy. She eats very, very, so healthy in fact that having her go off tracking is very, it's more stressful to her than not, right? She's very, very healthy. So I asked her, what did you eat?

You know, in your lunch that, and you think maybe, maybe you've bloated. So she listed her foods and boom, there it is, Brussels sprouts. How did you, how did you prepare your Brussels sprouts? Oh, I lightly sauteed them so they weren't really cooked all the way through. Now, when you eat foods like Brussels sprouts with lots of fiber, you're going to experience normal and natural levels of bloating because there's certain beneficial bacteria that break it down, that produce gases, and so you're going to get some bloating, and it's going to go away rather quickly. It's not stomach upset, it's not the bad kind of bloat, but nonetheless you do feel a little bloated. Now, for someone who competes in bikini, is very self-fulp, very, very, you know, thinking about how she looks

on with her body. You know, I'm not only in tune with my body, but I don't want to look like my stomach's any bigger. Blow, no matter where it comes from, is a very bad thing. And so what I was trying to do is help her connect the dots that, listen, that kind of blow is okay. You ate a lot of brussel sprouts, it's gonna happen.

That's beneficial bacteria, you know, breaking it down, you're gonna get a little gassy from it. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's very healthy. It's not fat, it's not my stomach is big and I'm, you know, you're uncomfortable with it because you felt like your stomach was a little bigger than it normally was. And that's what I mean by how complicated this process can be. Because in that particular scenario, the bloat was not only was it okay, but it was a good thing. It meant her body was doing what it's supposed to,

but it was also a good thing because now I'm helping her feel comfortable with her body in different stages because you're not gonna walk around with an empty stomach super ripped all the time, or at least if you do, you're headed to a bad destination. This reminds me to this kid just recently on that post I did, you know headed to a bad destination. Well, this reminds me to this kid

just recently on that post I did, made a comment about, okay, if I live my life the way you guys did, and ate this way, I might see what, a one to five percent increase for 500% more difficulty. And so the return on investment for me, I just don't see it. And I'm thinking to this kid like, you know,

your body is not a fucking stock portfolio. You know, why would you not always be striving? But I'm not saying that you need to go from here, all the way to here, like dude, we're probably 10, 15 years older than you and been in this industry for a long time, still learning, still getting better, get better habits, making more connections. It's just keep going, keep going, don't settle,

don't stop there, keep improving, keep trying to learn, keep growing, evolve. Excellent, excellent. Excellent. Listen, if you like Mind Pump, leave us a five star rating review on iTunes. If we like your review and we pick it, you'll get a free Mind Pump t-shirt. Also, check us out on Instagram, Mind Pump Radio. If you want to see some of those controversial posts you can go to Adam's page at Mind Pump Adam. You can find

my page at Mind Pump Sal and you can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbumble is like having sound, and an adjustment as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price.

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