Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 455: Mind Pump's First Sponsored Athlete- Mike Salemi, Kettlebell Master of Sport

Episode Date: February 13, 2017

Mike Salemi personifies the Mind Pump philosophy. His training, his diet, his lifestyle and his mindset is that of a champion. Mike is a Kettlebell Master of Sport, 2016 #1 in the 78kg division of World Association of Kettlebell Sports Clubs 32kg Long Cycle and he is also featured in our newest program KB4A, Kettlebells 4 Aesthetics. In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin interview Mike and get into the training and mindset that has propelled him to the top of his sport. Sal’s steam room story update 1:35 Sal describes how he met Mike 11:40 How did Mike discover resistance training and powerlifting? 13:15 With his success/being drug free athlete, was he ever tempted to use performance enhancing drugs? 17:23 Harder time gaining size and easier time gaining strength? 20:30 Powerlifting to Olympic lifting  How did gymnastics play a part into his transition to Olympic lifting 20:58 What is kettlebell sport? Competition Events description 24:50 Mike’s opinion of Crossfit 28:12 How have you seen your body change going from powerlifting/Olympics lifting to kettlebell style training? 32:44 Has father time hit you yet? Do you notice you have to put extra time with flexibility/mobility before you train? Does every sport have an age range? 36:28 Have you applied technology to your training? 41:06 Importance of discipline and recovery / Know how to read your body  What does his training look right now? How will it look after? Importance of programming 48:51 Aesthetics vs. Function / Inner ego struggle? 52:43 Mike’s take on nutrition 1:01:00 First sponsored Mind Pump Athlete  Related Links: Kettlebell for Aesthetics (KB4A) https://www.kettlebelllifestyle.net/ @kettlebellliftestyle – on Instagram Sports Palace Gym Skin Deep Kettlebell Kings Orange Kettlebell Club

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, pop, mite, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. We just had a fantastic interview with Mind Plum's first sponsored athlete, Mike Salami. He's a kettlebell sport athlete, and we talk a lot about the sport of kettlebell. We talk a lot about training and exercise. He's very, very knowledgeable when it comes to exercise. I mean, down to the detail in terms of taking metrics

like hormone responses and heart rate variability. I mean, real advance, but very, very interesting information. We talk about nutrition. We talk about power lifting and Olympic lifting. He's a walking example of everything we talk about nutrition, we talk about powerlifting and Olympic lifting. He's a walking example of everything we talk about. He is one of the people in our new kettlebell for aesthetics program. He's actually teaching some of the skills in the skills section of the program. Now, you get that program for free.

You get the kettlebell for aesthetics program for free with the purchase of MAPS aesthetic. So MAPS aesthetic is a program designed for you to train your body according to how your body looks and making it look a particular way and how to train weak body parts and to help you program your workouts. Kettlebell for aesthetics is an aesthetic-based kettlebell workout program, which is awesome.

If all you wanna do is work out with a pair of kettlebells and you want to build muscle and look a particular way, it's a fantastic program to follow. Comes for free with maps aesthetic, you can find both of them at mindpumpmedia.com. You guys remember the story I told about, wasn't that long ago, about the steam room, right? At the one that we sent out to the animator?

Yes. How I went in there is this one little Asian dude that me and him have now become like, steam room buddies. Well, it's, and that sounds very, that sounds very inappropriate. That's okay, that's okay. But, I mean, you guys don't hold hands or anything.

No, no, no, we've always been in a different thing anyways. We have mutual respect because we go in the steam room and we can outlast anybody Like we'll go in there and make it hottest fuck and the whole room will leave you guys got a no-towel yet And then that's what I'm where you I'm wondering where you have your friends. Are you where you at in this relationship? I'm definitely no-towel. Oh wow. Yeah, I'm full naked in there now. So things are progressing. Huh? Yeah No, I'm always I've been that way for a little while now all right So anyway first date this Huh? Yeah. No, I've been that way for a little while now. All right.

So anyway. First date is guy right away. So anyway, he's the good. So last, the last time I was in the steam room with him, me and him went in there and we went through four cycles of steam. So it must have got, it was at least 5,000 degrees in there and everybody left and then me and him kind of acknowledged each other's real face melt. We looked at each other and we acknowledged

like, all right, you know, and then and we both left at the same time. This morning, was very different. This morning, it was slow in the in the place. So it was like heads up today. Bro, it's up to it. It couldn't have been a whole little one on one. It couldn't have been planned any better. We're both walking from different sides of the locker room and we both meet at the door Justin, where's the slow-mo music right now? We both

Me at the door we both see each other and we both reach for the handle at the same time in our hands touch for That's wrong. That's like That's magical. Yeah, no what what it was. Spark Fluering. What it was is that I realized what happened is that we tried to, both of us were trying to kind of one up each other. We're not, we're just trying to pretend like we don't see the other one, because now we're competitive, right?

So we both reach for the door, we both touch hands. Now we have to acknowledge that it's just me and him. So we look at each other and he looks at me and he goes, this is fist bump time. No, no, no, no, no, this is what he does, bro. He gives me this kind of this little smirk and he goes, huh? And then he walks inside and then he walks inside I see sir. So I'm like, oh fuck. It's on today's that it's on Yeah, I feel right now. It's on and you guys know how you can match me you guys know how competitive I am yeah I'm extremely competitive so I went in there fully prepared to die.

Like, okay, I'm going to die. Or I'm going to win. Because no way in hell is this 67 year old Chinese man going to beat me. This is intense right now, bro. Like, you're about to boil up some skin. So we walk in there and we sit down. Now I, my strategy immediately was, I was thinking of a strategy, and my strategy was, I don't know if I have the endurance.

Tell me you're practicing some of the, you know, Kotler box flow, tell me you're putting some of that down right now. I feel like you're jumping ahead. Okay, okay, no, no, I don't know this story. I just wanna make sure that you're using the tools that you now have. This motherfucker ain't ready for you. Well, I use a lot of tools.

Okay, so we go in, and so I'm thinking like, I don't have the stamina. I don't think I have the stamina this guy, because he's been practicing for decades. You know what I'm saying? He's been doing this shit forever for all I know. And it's been in his DNA like for centuries. I mean, for generations.

He could be the descendant of Buddhist monks who fucking, you know what I'm saying? That's exactly it. Epigenetic town. Epigenes. He could have advantages descendant of Buddhist monks who fucking, you know what I'm saying? That's exactly. That's passed down. He could have advantages that I don't. I come from, now on my side, I am from the product of Sicilian immigrants, Sicily is pretty hot, but I don't think anybody was steaming the fuck out of themselves.

He might have an advantage, so I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna out endurance the sky. I need to out-intensity him. Oh, that's the only way I can beat him. Bold move. It's a different metric. Yeah, like that. Bold move right there.

I don't think I'm gonna stay in here long, I don't think I can stay here long like him, but I'm gonna burn the fuck out of him. Oh, wow. So that he has to leave, you know what I'm saying? So we walk in and- This is a friendly competition. This is a dangerous strategy right here.

Very dangerous. I took a gamble. I took a risk. So we go in and it's mid-steam. So it's already coming out and so immediately I'm just you and him are in here right now. Just me and him. Okay. There's no but naked yoga guys not in there. Big, hairy Persian dudes not in there. Is it I lock situation? Are you guys straight ahead? Yeah, you pretending like it's not a big deal. No, focused on part of the ball at this point. At this moment

we pretend like we don't exist. It's, you can feel the tension in there, right? Yeah. So we go in there, we sit down and it's already mid-steam. And so immediately in my mind, I'm creating your own space. In my mind, I'm like, as soon as that thing stops, I'm gonna go turn it back on. I'm gonna go, I'm not gonna give any breaks in between

because I want it to get so hot that his old skin will be able. This is like in basketball when we used to come out full core press in the first quarter. Exactly. Not even ready for it. You guys are thinking we're going to play normal game come out full core press. So I'm thinking I'm thinking there's no way his old paper like skin is going to be on hand or like he's fragile. He's going to be in youth. Yeah. And then it's I'm thinking like you're just strategy. Like I'm thinking you're you're going down right. Got it. So You yeah, and then it's I'm thinking like you're just strategy like I'm thinking you're you're going down right got it So mid steam we sit down and I'm chilling steam stops immediately I get up spray the thing so that it fucking turns back on Now it's when you do this are you looking at it when you do this or you just like no

eyebrow or anything I don't want to look at him I don't want to look at this fucker because he already so he's intimidating I feel like you shook me a little bit when we tried to go in the door and he looked at me with like the Was there energy exchange like did you feel it as you guys like accidentally touched my goal was to pretend That he wasn't in there because otherwise I could feel Him beat me psychological when you're spraying this down because people don't understand you spray this thing Yeah, it's cold water. That makes the steam keep coming out. You're not you're spraying this down, because people don't understand, you spray this thing with cold water, that makes the steam keep coming out. You're not even acknowledging him.

And not looking at him. He's not even cornering. He's not even tripping on him. I'm getting this hot, because this is how hot I like him. Yeah, so he's on the left. I'm on the right. I turn it on, I sit back down.

Because it's back to back, it's getting fucking hot now. I can start to feel my, like if you move, blistering problem. Well, what happens is if you move in the steam, it gets really fucking hot, right? So now by the second time around, the second cycle,

it's pretty, it's about as hot as I usually will let it go. How's your breathing? Breathing is okay. Breathing's okay and I also have, I can also, if I want to, take, because I brought an extra towel in there, thank God. I could take the towel, put it in front of my face, and filter the air if I have to. I have all these ideas. I'm a strategy. I've got it.

So the second cycle goes down, it's fucking hot. At this point, I'm contemplating, can I even get up? If I get up, I'm gonna burn my nuts. I get up anyway. I get up anyway. I can run big. I remember I'm naked, right? I get up anyway, and I spray it again. Steam turns back on and I sit down. This old motherfucker didn't budge. He's sitting there.

I don't see a single sign that there's any pain or any business. He doesn't want to show weakness. No, at all. At this point, I'm seriously doubting my own capability and I wish I had my cell phone because I would have set an alarm to go off so I had an excuse to leave,

because at this point I want to quit. I'm like, I can't do this anymore, God. But I sit down anyway, and now it's fucking, whoa, it is like, it's seriously starting to burn my skin. I'm thinking this could be a danger. We're probably gonna die. So finally, I break the silence, and I look over at him. No, this is their joke. I look over at him and I go,

oh man, it's hot, right? And he goes, it's not so bad. You broke first. And I was like, oh man, he knows straight power moved. You know how? So now it's old school. It's halfway through the third cycle. Respect, bro.

I get my extra towel and I have to hang it over my way through the third cycle. Respect, bro. You guys have respect. I get my extra towel and I have to hang it over my shoulders to protect my skin. I have to do this. You're a little shy. I have to do this. My third option now was to spray myself with the cold water, but I feel like that's quitting. I'm saying, I feel like it's cheating. So third cycle is over, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, somebody tried to walk in while this was all going on. Oh my God. Watch right out. I was happy they opened the door to be honest with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, his fucker's naked, he doesn't care, I've got a shawl over me trying to protect my skin. Third cycle has not finished, I'm literally now, I'm starting to see stars, and I start to think to myself, is it worth it? You know what I mean? I've got kids, I've got, all these things

are going through my mind, like all these thoughts are going through my mind. I can't, I'm like, you know what? I can't risk it, can't risk it. I can't risk it, Go. I get up and I walk out. Wow. I walked out. Wow. I did my cold shower. I lost. Obviously lost the battle. I got kids, man, I understand. I don't want them to grow up. Fatherless. I only push too hard.

I leave. I finish the shower. I leave. And I'm like, I got to check the steam room. If this motherfucker still in there, I'm thinking like, maybe I killed him killed him like maybe I actually went too far. Is it normal if his eyes are black? And I open the door to Kudagra right here. He's pouring cold water on it getting it hot You just see him You know like some super sigh of relief. I open the door. He wasn't in there. He was actually already changing and This this fucking son of a bitch man I walk by him again and he kind of smirks at me again And I know he's thinking pussy. Yeah, one day one day grasshopper. I don't know. I don't know man

I I don't know and I tell you what I'm glad I left that room because I was dizzy driving all the way over here to work today I really think that I I almost went too far. So anyway. How was the duration? I don't know. Maybe three, four hours, now I'm just kidding. It was probably, I have no idea.

It was like three cycles of steam. So I tend 12 minutes in my hour. Anyway, anyway, I'd like to share that story. Intense, wait a start your day. We have today in our studio, a good friend of mine, Mike Sulemi, or as Adam likes to call him Mike Salami. He keeps from her mispronouncing your name. Mike Salami Mike, Mortadella Mike, Pepper Turkey Mike, Powerlifting.

Was this after Jim class? Oh, anyway, so Mike is one of the, I met you a while ago. I met Mike a while ago when I own my wellness facility, one of my yoga instructors was connected to him. He came in and I met him. Mike, at the time weighed maybe 170 pounds at that time. At that time? Yes, somewhere around like 175, 175.

Looks like an athletic guy. Doesn't look like a huge massive bodybuilder. Just looks like a very athletic fit guy. And he said, oh, I dabble in some powerlifting. Is that a dabble? He's dabble. He's like, oh yeah, I do a little powerlifting. I've tried it.

Yeah, I lift the barbells. Everyone's here. This guy, and at the time, I was really trying to get my deadlift up higher and whatever. And so Mike is like, you know, south, so how's your deadlift going? Like, what's your deadlift at? And I so Mike is like, you know, Sal, so how's your deadlift going? Like, what's your deadlift at? And I'm like, oh, you know, the other day I did my new PR

was 565 and I'm thinking like, yeah, I told you, I'm kind of a boss. I totally impressed him right now. Yeah, it's a good thing. And then Mike's like, oh yeah, I used to compete in power, I'd say, oh really? What's your best deadlift? What was your best deadlift, Mike?

Best in competition was 615. 615 pounds when you were held? 19. Yeah, see. Yeah. All the air came out of you. And that's why I quit lifting weights. Okay, 19, that means you had to been lifting

for quite some time before that. Like you didn't just come in at 19 years old, right? I started competing when I was 15. Oh wow, okay. Now how did you discover, because we're gonna get into what you're doing now, which is why we have you on the show right now, but how did you discover resistance training

or powerlifting? Because that's, you don't see too many people start with powerlifting, you see people start with like bodybuilding and stuff, like what got you into it? Yeah, no, that's a good question. When I was 15, I was in freshman football, and I was like third string running back,

and I really didn't give a shit about anything related to football, all I wanted to do, I was always hiding in the gym and just like, we'd be in there lifting and the guys would go about, you know, back out to the field and I would just be like, I just want to stay here, I just want to stay here. So, you just fell in love with the way. Yeah, that's crazy.

I'm not so good with this football thing, but at this weight thing, I'm like in this. Then I injured my back and one of the guys who rehabbed me was a chiropractor and at the time he was a drug-free World Championship on the championship lifter in the bench press and so he kind of took me in took me under his wing and brought me into A basement power lifting gym. It's no longer around but it was called the palestium and we had a really really cool group of colorful people And ever since then I just fell in love now. Were you naturally?

And ever since then, I just fell in love. Now, were you naturally very strong? Did you find right away like, wow, I have an affinity for this? Or were you the classic skinny, weak kid that goes and finds ways to build up their body? Well, before that, I was a gymnast. I mean, I injured myself in gymnastics, too. It's kind of interesting, because of all the sports I've been into, it's kind of like an injury has led me to the end of the store,

end of each sport, but then also kind of open the door to a whole another kind of passion of mine. So I was a gymnast and I wouldn't say I wasn't really strong, but I love the conditioning I love the training aspect of every sport and that's really kind of what got it started. So right away you start powerlifting and you're probably already strong. Well, let's back up even further. How old were you when you did your parents get you in a gym now? So did you find that like how did you even get started on Gymnastics and how long were you doing that for? Well, I'm real tight with my brother and my brother was doing it ever since he was probably I think five years old.

So I believe I started around seven and then essentially continued until I had a pinch nerve in my back which was about 14 and then started football when I was 15. So you know, seven, eight years. Do you do you attribute the pinch nerve to the gymnastics or how did that happen? Yeah, yeah, and then also during the time of like a growth spurt and stuff. So when I tried to return back to gymnastics, I think I'd grown like three or four inches, something like that. And it was just like an awkward time when you're just figuring out your body.

And I was like, I really realized I'm not gonna be very good at this at a high level. So let me figure out and explore what else I enjoy doing. Isn't that funny how our bodies do that? And we all kind of have that most, especially if you were into sports, you know, I know Sal has no idea this completely for him. But I know I remember I played soccer my whole life. And it was for sure I was the I was better at soccer than I was anything else. But I had this awkward eighth grade to freshman year, Grosspert. And it was like it was like I was playing with a square ball. And the field was slippery.

It was just weird. It was like, I had the same experience going from football to basketball. It's just like my body type will completely change because of the training and then also just growing up and then growing into this new body. And then it's like, yeah, mechanically, you're trying to figure out, and by the end of the season,

you start to finally get it, but then it's too late. Yeah. The story of puberty. Yeah. So now, Mike, you're doing your powerlifting, and you competed at a pretty high level. Right? Yeah.

What were some of your, you have it, some titles or, I think you had written them down, I forgot. So I've competed in a number of organizations, but I think the main ones I was competing in was in the drug-free organizations, but they weren't, it was kind of hard though, it was fine, drug-free comps,

like there's the non-tested comps for much more popular. So in the WABDL, which is just bench press and deadlift, I won the worlds at 148, and then I think it was 165, I competed in that one as well. So best lifts around that time, my squat was 605, bench was 470, and then dead was 615.

That's crazy. That's fucking sucks. For me, not for you, that's incredible. That's incredible. Two things, two questions come up for me. You're lifetime natural, correct? Always trained, drug free, always competed drug-free. Were you ever tempted?

Were you ever, did you ever get any pull to take? Cause you know, as strong as you were naturally, you just gotta be a party that wants to go like, God, what happened? I could be the strongest one. I just ran a couple C.C.s, but with this look like. Exactly. Did I ever pull to you? What was that dialogue on your shoulder?

Well, fortunately, the gym that I was at was pretty much all drug-free, so I had a really good upbringing there. But when I was 15, I started studying Louis Simmons' work in Westside, Barbell, and all that good stuff. So, when I was 18, pretty much, yeah, right when I got out of high school, I spent a little over a month at Westside training with Louis. And over there, you're just around, you're just around it all the time

and guys are doing it. But so there was definitely temptation there, but I always knew that just not kind of a road that I wanted to go, absolutely nothing against. Those guys are anything they're doing. I mean, these guys were training just as hard if not harder than any world class high level athletes that I've ever been around, the work ethic, I mean, a lot of the guys there,

when I was there, you know, had moved to Columbus just to, you know, join Westside. And, you know, I've kind of disconnected myself from the kind of powerlifting community in the last few years, just because I've been so focused in kettlebell sport, but, you know, those guys were the real deal, man. Do you find, because you trained a lot initially with drug-free competitors, drug-free power

lifting, and then you went, you know, and you've seen programming and training done by, you know, coaches who train a lot of enhanced athletes? Do you see a big difference in their programming and workouts as a result? That's a good question. I think the volume and just the frequency of training is more. I mean, the, yeah, I wasn't, I mean, I was definitely doing when I was there,

to work out today and I remember it was actually pretty funny when I was staying in just kind of this janky hotel and I had, there was no kind of single bedroom so there was two beds per room so I used to have one bed that would be the bed that I would sleep in each night and then I would have one bed for my post morning session because it was so disgusting and so tight I walked through the door and just like plop down and just and just you know pass out until the next training. Did you make strength gains training that way or did you find you did better with less maybe volume and frequency?

When I was at the increased volume and frequency were more like recovery workouts, a lot of slid dragging, accessory work, abdominal stuff. That was when I came back from West Side, was the strongest I ever was, and that's when I did the, pulled the 615 and then squatted 6.05. You know what, I find very fascinating about the human body

We talk a lot about genetics all the time and you've trained with weights for quite a bit of time You obviously of course Training plays a huge role in nutrition, but you obviously have excellent genes for strength But you don't have bodybuilder genes because you're not this huge muscular guy. Whereas someone else could work out, not getting nearly as strong, but then get these big bubbly muscles. Was that by design for you, or do you find that you have a harder time gaining size and

an easier time gaining strength? I can definitely gain strength quicker than I think my nervous system is pretty good. Yeah, I've always been a fast twitch athlete, I think, just my genetics, my fiber type, but also just my mental capacity. For strength, I'm way more akin to that. Even just endurance, mentally is such just a challenge for me, even today. Do you think that, like, so you started out with gymnastics and talk about connectivity with your central nervous system and body awareness

and the ability to communicate with your body at like the highest level. Do you feel like starting out with that gave you an advantage going into these other types of sports? Without a doubt. Without a doubt, I mean, just the, you said it perfectly. I mean, the body awareness, the flexibility, the mobility, even just getting over fear. I mean, every body awareness, the flexibility, the mobility, even just getting over fear.

I mean, every day in practice, it was like you were either learning a new skill or working on a skill that you had continuously failed upon. So I think as a base, gymnastics was phenomenal for me. Now, so your power lifting, you're very competitive, you're doing very, very well. What's the next evolution for me at that point?

Did you go straight from there to Kettlebell, or did you go from there to something else before you get to Kettlebell? Then I went and do Olympic weightlifting. So when I was in college, I was living in Italy actually for a year. And then as soon as I got back, I kind of decided I wanted to try something different and just expand my skills as an athlete and as a coach. So I found Olympic weightlifting and maybe just like a little bit under a year, I was training with Jim Schmitz.

Jim Schmitz was three time Olympic coach and learned a lot of great stuff from him and my intention wasn't necessarily to maybe compete long-term in Olympic weightlifting, but more just kind of see what the experience would hold for me, see what I can learn from a great coach, and at least get one, two, or three competitions under my belt. So you did, how long did you do that for? With Jim, just about a year. Okay, so decent amount of time. What were some of the differences in the way your body adapted

from power lifting to Olympic lifting? What did you notice that was different? First, I mean, first and for, even though my background before that was a gymnast, I mean, by the time I stopped gymnastics to start at Olympic weightlifting was almost like 10-ish years. So, I mean, my flexibility, mobility, I mean, just doing an overhead squat, like,

I mean, and I was classic, classic, Westside programming, classic, kind of, a lot of the Westside techniques. So, there wasn't, again, you know, with everything, with everything said, my sport was powerlifting. So, every training session, you know, there was two dynamic effort days, two maximum effort days,

which is kind of the classic conjugate system spread, was always bench press deadlift and squat, and with the accessory movements. But, you know, you throw a barbell over my head and try to go at the bottom of an overhead squat, it was a whole nother ball game. So that was very challenging for me, just the flexibility required to get into the correct position so I can perform the lifts. Now, what is that, hold on, let me ask you in regards to that,

like, is that when you think you probably put the connection, like the importance of like your gymnastics background, and then that, and then probably, because I went through this phase when I got into dead lifting and squatting and overhead pressing, and I was just trying to increase weight, you know, so even though I wasn't training competitively or anything like that, I was competitive with myself trying to increase my strength.

And I started, and I remember I'll never forget waking up one day and just realizing like, holy shit, I can't even get a pistol squat. And that was something I felt that was so remedial to me five years ago. Did you ever go through an aha moment like that when you made that transition? Very humbling. And yeah, and I actually had more of like a humbling moment when I started transitioning to kettlebell sport. Oh, but I do, you know, even though like we just were talking, you know, the flexibility and the mobility component of Olympic weightlifting is definitely, I would say, at a higher level

than powerlifting. I mean, different movements, right? Just having that much of a base of strength, I think, laid even, you know, gymnastics kind of was the foundation of like body awareness and coordination, all that stuff. Powerlifting was just raw, brute absolute strength, which I think for any athletic program, you know, hypertrophy, then strength, and then you can, with that strength, you can use it for powerful, you know, activities or, powerful activities or strength endurance activities. I think in that sense, the qualities of being a strength athlete were huge.

Now, you're doing the Olympic lifting. How do you go from that to kettlebell? What makes you discover kettlebells? Because now you're at, you compete at a very, very high level in kettlebell sport. You're nationally ranked. If I'm not mistaken, and you're, what's the title that you hold? It's called Master of Sport. First off, what does that mean? Master of Sport? What do you have to do to be able to get

that? I guess we should probably start by maybe just explaining kind of what is kettlebell sport and what's kind of involved in it. So kettlebell sport, I mean, you'll kind of read different things, but more or less, it's been around for about 50 to 60 years. I think the rules of kettlebell sport kind of started getting organized in the early 60s. Classically today we've got two main events. So the event that I compete in is called long cycle.

So long cycle involves for men, two kettlebells, one in each hand obviously, clean and jerking, non-stop for 10 minutes. So crazy. How much do the kettlebells weigh? Depending on what weight you choose, that kind of indicates what kind of level whether you're amateur professional. The most like the professional level

would be two 32 kilo kettlebells. So it'd be about 72 pounds. One, you know. Any champ. Yeah. And you're doing this, you're doing these movements for 10 minutes. Yeah, I mean, you can set it down,

but the set's over. So you won't, you wouldn't wouldn't be able to you know qualify for rank or anything like well You could qualify for rank, but just wherever that you know repetition ended that would be the set wow So so that's the competition of one event of one event one event what are the others the other classic event is called Byathlon and it's actually two 10 minute events So what they do is you'll do two kettlebell jerks, nonstop for 10 minutes, and then a few hours later, you'll come back and you'll do a single kettlebell snatch with one hand switch.

Now you can switch hands at any point during the 10 minute set. Most lifters will switch at five minutes, but depending on their strategy and competition, they might, you know, maybe their left arm is way stronger than you could. That's kind of a little bit of a strategy, then. Oh yeah, for sure.

That's very cool. So A little bit stronger. Oh yeah, for sure. That's very cool. So that sounds like a huge paradigm shifting event, switching from Olympic lifting, which is very power oriented, but still very short. Power lifting, which is strength, but also very short to what looks like a huge endurance component, a marathon of pain. I mean, 10 minutes, people don't really, I mean, I'll tell you what, right now, if you're listening, just do 10 minutes of body weight squats without stopping.

You'll want to throw up. It sounds like nothing, but even after 60 seconds, you'll find that it's very, very difficult, let alone 10 minutes. So what was that like for you? I mean, did you just get crushed right off the bat trying to even do that? Yeah, well, it was really hard for me because, you know, at that time, and I think one of the things that that I incorporate, even in the workshops I teach right now, there's a huge emphasis on qualifying, you know, qualifying the athlete, qualifying the student, or the, you know, the client, etc. So, when I started, you know, there wasn't so much of qualifying, whether it's been training age or just an orthopedic assessment,

be a static or movement based. So I didn't necessarily have that at the time. So it was a brutal learning curve, which ended up in me getting injured and then kind of starting the next evolution of where I'm at now. And now you're very competitive, obviously. I have something that I have to add. I feel like you have to be one of the most qualified people

to ask their opinion on what you think about CrossFit. Yeah, I'm wondering why, why, why, cause they're drawn to CrossFit. I mean, like you've got the gymnastic background, you've got the Olympic lifting background. I feel like that would be just the natural progression of the, I'm gonna go would be just the natural progression. I'm going to go kick some assic, crossfit.

What detours you from that, if any at all, and what's your thoughts on it? I think I kind of just fell into every sport. I started gymnasics because my brother was involved in it. And then when I rehab my back with that chiropractor, that kind of led me into powerlifting. And then Olympic weightlifting was just because I knew of a friend who knew Jim Schmitz and who kind of got me into powerlifting. And then Olympic weightlifting was just because I knew of a friend who knew Jim Schmitz

and who kind of got me into that. And I started, I first picked up a kettlebell when I was at Westside. So when I was at Westside, I mean, they were doing the classic kind of hard style way of lifting and that was how they were using to kind of support some of their power lifts. So I first was exposed to kettlebells there

and I loved them. And so after Olympic weightlifting, I was a strength conditioning coach at D1 program and I was always looking for, and even now, like I always say, I'm first a student, then an athlete, then a coach. And so I was always kind of looking for, what else can I use with my athletes? And at the time, I had taken a kettlebell certification and one of the instructors, one of the assistant instructors, owned a kettlebell sports gym,

which today is the Orange Kettlebell Club, which is, in my knowledge, is the largest kettlebell club in the world. That's right, they host some of the biggest events, right? In the US. Absolutely. So I was fortunate enough to meet John Wilde Buckley there, who's kind of the head of the organization,

and then he lived in, or he lives in Berkeley. And so we were talking, and he was like just observing me me how I was lifting and stuff and he goes, you know, kind of pulled me aside and so did some of the other instructors and they said, you know, we also compete in kettlebell sport and I had no idea what it was at the time.

And they said, you know, I think you would have, you know, do really well in it, would you be interested in trying it? And so that's kind of how I fell into that. So nothing necessarily against CrossFit, but in terms of like my feelings on it, and a lot of the controversy, I think when you look at any modality

of competition of training, you know, there's a progressive system that you have to look at. So take any movement that's involved in CrossFit or how it's programmed. If someone doesn't have first the flexibility, then the stability prerequisites that are demanded and required for every movement, if they move into a strength and a power activity without

that base, then no matter who you are or what sport you're in, injuries are going to happen sooner or later. So for me, it's just, you know, I was just never really, just never really fell into it, but, you know, nothing against CrossFit is just, Yeah, and I'm even thinking now like I even have a bunch of buddies who own CrossFit gyms And what I see today just my observation and and granted like I live and train in my garage So I'm not very exposed to a lot of the stuff that's out there So I've always been in basement gyms and kind of keep myself under the radar But from what I see with with buddies running programs It's so very different

in how it's programmed from gym to gym. So like a lot of my friends do have, you know, orthopedic assessments when people come in, they do have an option for one-on-one training. I'm personally not a huge fan of group training. Like I like a lot of, I just tend to be a little bit more detailed than I like to. You know, it's in a group, you know, there's definite benefits to group training, but in my observation, like it tends to be more of like the community aspect and stuff like that. But from a detail level and really supporting those clients, especially with orthopedic issues,

or even nutritional, you know, issues and deficiencies, one-on-one training is the way to go. You're a very politically nice answer there. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's very line with all those Very accurate and in my opinion very accurate and you rep you know might kind of represents What a pure kind of the the fitness person that with that's pure is very pure I mean the funny thing is you've competed in all of these sports that involve weights I mean, the funny thing is you've competed in all of these sports that involve weights, but I would venture to say you've probably worked out very little in big box gyms.

Absolutely. So, I mean, so you're not exposed to all the bullshit out there. You've just learned the good stuff. Maybe just like on vacation, you know, if I can't find. But even on vacation, like I was just in Hawaii with my brother and we took a cool trip to Kauai. And no matter where I go, I bring a kettle with me. So I brought a 14 kilo kettle in my bag and that was our training at the beach and just playing.

Wow, that's freaking awesome, man. My dad gets really pissed because I f up all our logages. Of course, he's got all these nice logages now with like holes in them, he's like, not taking that one. He's gonna take that one. So you're doing these different kinds of trainings. What have you noticed outside of kettlebell sport

in terms of how your body has changed and responded now that you train for kettlebell sport? You know, differences in movement, mobility, strength, you know, what have you seen in terms of how your body changes? Obviously, when you started doing this, you're not nearly as good as you are now. So there's obvious adaptations that have happened.

What have you noticed? Well, I think every sport is gonna maximize a certain quality or certain number of qualities or we can call them biomotor abilities, right? Is it gonna be strength, power, coordination, balance, flexibility? So if we look at that, powerlifting would be kind of the ultimate expression of strength, right?

Kind of incorrectly named power lifting. Olympic weight lifting is probably going to be one of the greatest tests for power. Gymnastics and maybe ballet would be like flexibility, coordination, stuff like that. Control, maybe. Okay. In kettlebell sport, you have to have exquisite coordination, exquisite power, exquisite endurance.

Flexibilities absolutely one of the key components. So I would say just, you know, the longer that I've been doing it, those qualities to be successful will have been, you know, maximized or to the best of my ability at this point. Well, it explains why you're such a badass at it, too. It literally has taken all those disciplines to create someone like that.

It's like you planned it. It builds those patterns in leading up to this point where it all combines them together. Because we can argue all day long about semano types and like, oh, your body was built for this and so on that, but all that other stuff is God. But that's why I think for me, like kettlebell sport makes more sense than CrossFit. And I'll just say that, you know, without, you know, feeling bad. Well, I don't know.

I don't even think it's that. I think what Mike said is so perfect that, and I think if you were to ask him, he would admit this, that all of them are a sport. Absolutely. They're all, they're all fucking sports. The only problem I've ever had with that is, is people understanding that, is that these are sports.

No really good trainer is going to tell their client that this is the best way to get in shape, or offer this as like the their best way to get in shape. It's like, listen, here's a sport. If you love that sport, let me show you the fundamentals of that, let me lay you a good base to that, let me teach you how to progress that, and that's the problem. And I think that's, yeah, because you're performing. When you go by, and... Let me show you the fundamentals of that. Let me lay you a good base to that. Let me teach you how to progress that.

And that's the problem. And I think that's, Yeah, because you're performing. When you go by and, It's a different intention. If you go in, if I went into kettlebell sport with the intention of losing weight and getting fit,

but I'm training kettlebell sport. So I'm in a sport gym. Yeah, you missed them. And I'm like, I wanna lose weight. I'm gonna have different, the way I approach my exercises will be different. The way I approach the intensity, the lose weight. I'm gonna have different the way I approach my exercises Will be different the way I approach the intensity the way I do everything is gonna be different Versus if I go in there and I'm like I want to learn to sport

one You know, I just want to lose weight aspect means my form might be looser I'm not gonna pay attention to you know certain things I have to do with mobility I'm just worried about losing weight. The other way, going into a first sport, I'm trying to perfect everything so I can maximize my performance in this particular sport. And it's very different.

The intention is very... Well, you're probably spending a lot of time with a broomstick, digressing, thinking that you're ready for something, they hope we gotta regress back three steps. Instead of like, this is not intense enough, give me a heavier weight, I need a current calories. And which is where I think CrossFit gets a lot of their slack

because people go in there for a workout. With the different in the body. With their intention and some of the people that own these boxes, you know, advertise it and push it that way versus, we need to treat this like a sport, which is why I've seen some incredibly good CrossFit coaches and I've seen some coaches that are just that just make me shake my head.

How old are you? 30. You're 30 years old. Do you notice anything with your body like aches and pains and you feel different now than what you did five years ago. His father time starting to tick yet. Wow, man, he's only 30. What do we now?

Well, I remember, I remember between 27 and 30 was, when I had your first great hangover. I realized I got to hang the sneakers up anymore. I'm not going to be playing basketball because I'm getting injuries left. Oh, great, Pube. Well, I think, I think, no, that's a good question,

especially with all the training that you've got. Well, also, like, and I know, because Mike is an athlete, Justin's an athlete, you start to appreciate, you know's an athlete, you start to appreciate you know, now listen, you start to appreciate somebody like a Tom Brady who's getting ready to turn what 40 years old and still you know, is going to the Super Bowl and doing things at that age, there's different practices and there's different, I mean, it now becomes a necessity all the prerequisites of as far as like preparing

yourself for battle or getting ready to train. Are you noticing that? Do you feel like you have to put an extra preparation and work towards your mobility than what you did five years ago? Do you notice that yet? You know, I think, you know, every single sport from just from my experience in the sports that I've been in, every single sport has kind of like an ideal age range, right? When I was involved in powerlifting, like even up to the age of shoot,

I think Louis was like even in his early fifties when he was squatting over 800 and stuff. Or even look at female gymnastics in China, right? Female gymnastics in China, you've heard their max, maybe around like 12 to 12 years old. But then you look at what I just said, strength-based athletes or power lifters, they're gonna hit that peak much later in life. Olympic weight lifters, I'm not 100%, but maybe like, I don't know, 25 to 30, 35?

Maybe that's too old right there. So I think every sport has kind of their age range and I was fortunate enough to travel to Russia and train with some of the members of the national team over there. So I think every sport has kind of their age range. And, you know, I was fortunate enough to travel to Russian and train with, you know, some of the members of the national team over there. And you'd be surprised that a lot of them are in their, you know, older years. And they're still, you know, phenomenal, you know, late 30s, even early 40s, and still, you know, crushing master sport rankings at every competition, or if not higher. But my own personal journey, every year, I think, you know, I get a little bit wiser, a little bit, you know, things get a little bit tighter. And the more and more that I've managed myself as an athlete, I've noticed, like I would

not say I have, I noticed that drop off. Absolutely not. Like I still feel like I honestly wouldn't even consider myself a great athlete. Like I think I'm good, but I still think think there's still a lot of kind of untapped potential. And I think it's just going to take more and more time. Even just being critiqued by better and better coaches and just learning more nuances. But I think that's even one of the things that I value so much in terms of how to prepare athletes before anything, the individual comes first.

And I think this is one of the biggest, I don't wanna say, I guess you could say mistakes, or the biggest kind of shortcomings and not just kettlebell programming, but pretty much all programs out there is, there's little to no programs that take the individual first. And what I mean about that is,

so like one of the things that I do, usually every morning is I'll look at, and I kind of rate and rank things, so I'll look at first morning heart rate, and then at a bunch of different markers for musculoskeletal system stress, limbic emotional stress, and then hormonal stress. And then what I'll do is I'll chart it, and I'll categorize it. So one of the things that I can do is I can see if, let's say, I'm going through a relationship challenge, you know, family stuff going on. I can see that reflected dynamically every day in my morning heart rate. And then that determines how intense in my volume of training for that day. So when it's time to train and bang, like when it's time to grip and rip the weight, those days, I mean, every single time you hop in the gym, at least in my perspective,

the intention should be to exceed the last performance. And this is something I learned from Paul Check. You should be able to exceed the last performance by one to three percent. If you honestly can't come into the gym and exceed the last performance by one to three percent, then you need to shift the intention. Maybe it's a work, what we call work in day, or maybe it's a Tai Chi day, or something like that. So, or maybe you just reduce the volume by 50%.

So, being able to un-delay how the trainings go, is I think, and that's something that I've been really focused on the last three years, has I think taken my lifting to a whole other level. You've actually been basically talking about, HR-ability, yeah, HR-ability training. So, have you actually like with technology, have you applied that with like an app

and connected with the heart rate strap and really showing those metrics over time? And has that helped you at all? Is this all just intuitive based off of like, I know that I was dealing with this emotional thing and then leading up into the next days where my heart rate is at, and you're kind of factoring it that way,

sort of manually. So I first started exploring the heart rate variability stuff, and I think it's a phenomenal tool. The only thing, the reason why I didn't continue with it just after a few days was at least the one that I was using, I don't recall what brand, but I had to wear it during bed. And I don't like just the you know, the constriction

of my ribs and my breathing and all that stuff. So I said to screw that. And then just working with Paul, I would definitely categorize it. And I would chart it on like Google Docs and a spreadsheet. So I do have, you know, graphs and charts. And I essentially charted every single day for three years. And so what I was looking at was, you know, in each training phase, yeah, it was amazing.

So in each training phase, whether it was a corrective phase, following a competition, a base conditioning phase, a sports specific phase, a pre-competition phase, obviously just physically speaking, the physical stressors are going to be much higher, right, in certain phases one or the other. So I was able to track, and also just how things were kind of playing out in my own life. So connecting those dots. Just connecting, and I had a lot of aha moments, and that's really even... That makes way more sense to me than the art rate variability.

Well, this was the conundrum that we ran into when we were trying to create our own working. The hardest thing that all of us had when we first decided we were going to release our first program was, how do we deliver something that is malleable, that they could change to the individual because we all know that that's what comes first. You could have the most awesome program in the world, but if you can't find a way to kind of individualize for that person, it really doesn't matter that much,

or you're setting that person up from failure down the road or injury. So I lose as a tremendous amount of its potency, if it's super general and cookie cutter, and as personal trainers, we know that all too well. And that's why we've all we tried to add components that allow people to modify and change the routines, because we know better, we know that.

You have to be able to learn how to read your body. Well, and the importance of like phasing, like it's so great to hear that you, it's unreal that you, that you kind of put, I mean, I know it's not because of all the, you've been around some brilliant minds. I mean, you've been around some brilliant minds, you've definitely been with some of the best coaches,

you've got some of the best certifications. And I mean, listening to you, that's unreal to me that you tracked to that three years. For three years, but how fucking awesome that has to be now to be able to connect all those dots to personal stuff going on in your life and how that affects your training. And this is what we talk a lot about this on the show that trying to teach people how to connect these dots and understand that

Sometimes the best workout isn't a workout, you know, or focusing on something recuperative Instead of going in and hammering beast mode all the time because more isn't always more so so Mike Let me ask you this you've got these metrics and now you're reading them You take your measurements and the measurements say Mike today is a Go easy day, but mentally you feel like, I feel great, I wanna go hard. Does that ever happen, you?

Yeah, that definitely does have. I think, what do you listen to? Do you listen to your mind that says, nah, I feel good, let's go kill it, or do you listen to the metrics? Cause I can't imagine what kind of a conflict that would create inside me, you know what I mean? Well, I think one is just, you know,

in order to reach a high level in any sport, obviously you have to be incredibly disciplined, right? Because you have to put in the time, put in the work. So I think one of the things in all sports and, you know, we were discussing CrossFit earlier, I think the, in terms of CrossFit, one of the things that I think can be really improved upon is the whole recovery side.

So I think, but they're incredible athletes, they work their ass off, they're strong as shit, they're incredible, but I think the same discipline that you use to be a badass in your sport should also be the same discipline that you use to back off when it's time to back off. So in that situation, I would check in with myself, you know, have some quiet time and really just reflect on, you know,

why is the number going high and just trying to look deeper? And one example, this is pretty kind of detail, but I think it'll illustrate a point is, so I've got one of the kettlebell athletes that I work with, their name is Ada Wong, and so she's a master of sport, and we started working, now she's over 40. And with no formal weightlifting experience, she was a swimmer, I believe. And so, you know, over the past few years, we've gotten her to the highest level. But, you know, near the highest level. And one of the things that we did with her

when we started tracking is, so as we're in these phases, right, the precompatition phase is one of the most demanding phase, not only physically leading into a competition, but also emotionally. As the competition nears, the emotional stress rises and rises. But it's really important that you get all those trainings in. So I think over the course of like 10 days, she was showing me her metrics and stuff,

and I was looking at them, and every single day, her morning heart rate was like skyrocketing. And she's like, I'm not doing anything different. I don't know what the hell is what's going on. And I'm always, I'm very adamant. I'm like, well, you're not training today. You know, so we're going to go do some recovery stuff. We're going to do some Tai Chi.

We're going to do some meditation, whatever it is. And so this started going on every single day. It was over kind of the threshold of where I considered it's a training day or not a training day. So I wasn't allowing her to train. And I was like, shit, we got this big competition in three weeks. What am I going to do? What do I have to do as a coach? What do I do in the situation?

So then we just started having to, you kind of got to be, you know, a little bit of a detective and every time that, you know, this is why I don't work with very many one-on-one people is because it's such a detailed and such an involved process that I just don't have the time for it, at least to deliver the quality of coaching that I intend to deliver. So what we found out was, as we started, you know, is there anything no matter how small, what have you changed, what has been different.

And so what we narrowed it down to was a hair care product that her hair salon, whatever person gave her. And so if you go to like a website, great website, I think it's skindeep.org or skindeep.com. You can actually, they'll rate them rank pretty much thousands and thousands of all cosmetic products. And they'll kind of define it by, you know, how toxic it is, what, you know, what carcinogens. It's interesting. Wow.

So what we did is we identified what product was she using, and it was like on a scale, I think if I recall correctly, like anything above, like if you're two and below, that's kind of like the green area. Once you get above two, like three, four, and five, that's like, okay, be concerned about this product. Her product was a seven out of 10. Oh wow.

As soon as we removed it within one day, we had about a 10 beat per average drop in heart rate. Wow, that's fucking so fast and crazy. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy, you could identify that. That's a think. That's when that's how it becomes really, really helpful.

Yeah. And then we were able to train and then get a good result. But it had it gone anymore, after a certain point, if you continue training, remember exercise obviously is a stress. And so one of the major qualifying criteria when someone comes in is like, what's their physiological load? Like, you know, how much stress are they under? Should they be training or should they be doing something

less intense? So the longer that that physiological load, that low grade stress, you know, goes on more and more, they're either going to get sick or they're going to get injured or they're not going to hit their results. So,'ve got to look a little bit more with a fine-tuned comb so to speak to. That's invaluable information. So what does your training, you're getting ready for competition coming up. What does your training look like right now and what will your training look like after? So right now, so the training and with any time that I write a program, it's even though I have a very detailed plan phased by phased. Like I always say like program should always be very dynamic.

Right, so I mean, I like to train just because my schedule, like I like to train Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday. That just works out really well for me, but I think part of the struggle, especially as I started using kind of this more intuitive approach of training is not being attached to the program. You know, as an athlete, you're like, okay, here's the periodization scheme. Like, you know, I wrote it out for the next four to six weeks. You know, I'm gonna stick to it because that's gonna get me to the goal. And while there is truth to that,

if you don't essentially consider, again, once again, the individual first, then you're either something's gonna happen. You're gonna tweak something. So I have a plan, but I'm also very willing to adapt to that plan. So my training right now is three days a week of kettles, and it's really, really intense, really hard,

especially in this last phase. And then I'll do typically two days a week. I do a double day where I work out of a gym in St. Carlos snack, where they have like kind of a really, it's different for contenties, right? Yeah, okay. It works a lot of fighters

and got kind of this altitude training facility. It's really cool. So that's been helping me kind of develop more of the endurance qualities. And then usually Sunday is just more of like a, what usually I'll go for hike, something just to get outside because I'm indoors a lot.

So when you're doing the kettlebell training, the days that you're just working with the kettlebells, are you just doing sets of your, what doing competition or are there specific movements that you're focusing on aside from that? Well, every training is going to be built around more, well, there's two ways to look at it. Like, there's a huge, huge emphasis on obviously developing the weaknesses, right? So there's a huge technical aspect and whatever, you know, could be the jerk, could be the clean, could be grip, could be,, could be, it could be just even just mental fortitude

to endure the long set. So it's a little complicated, I think, it's kind of just discussed over the air, but just I would say about once and every, I pretty much break up programming in two week cycles. So at least once and every two weeks, I'm doing one set that's at least five to 10 minutes long. Okay. Is that kind of least five to 10 minutes long.

Okay. Is that kind of gate trying to gauge like where you need to make these micro tweaks? Is that what you're doing? What you're doing that? Exactly, and usually I'll jump up two kilo, because now what's so cool, like, I know you guys are sponsored by Kettlebell Kings,

which is awesome. They have, in my opinion, probably the best bells in the world and what's cool about them is they jump up in two kilo increments. It used to be four kilo increments. So eight 12, I'm sorry, eight 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32. That would be a standard set of bells no matter where you would purchase them. But now, because they're finding that just these,

I mean, even just jumping up two kilos. Yeah, it's, I mean, because you have to understand, I pound, you know, that's a big jump. It's long cycles, that's gonna add up. Well, what makes a kettlebell so unique? I mean, one of the biggest things, it's a live object, right? It's the offset, you know, the offset axis over, here's the hand, here's the bell,

and it's a live, it's always giving you feedback. So 32 kilos of kettlebell weight compared to 32 kilos of a dumbbell weight is totally different. The stabilization demand is through the roof. So. And the lever is longer, so five pounds heavier because the lever has been lengthened now. The kettlebells are way from my body.

It's actually more like seven or eight pounds on a dumbbell. Exactly. And you're dealing with momentum, right? And so depending on the mechanics that you use, if you don't have ideal mechanics, what could essentially be 32? I mean, if you're talking about depending

how fast the bell is accelerating up or falling with gravity down, and the position of where your hips are and where the bell is, that's going to change everything. So it's a little bit more. It gives you a whole appreciation for just the sport and the little details of the movement and how much is mechanics, you know, over strength, right? I mean, I think you're a perfect example that because I think you're a very unassuming guy, which I think is cool, you know what I think. I think that you look like a very fit guy,

but I would have never guessed that you're that fucking strong and fit, it's incredible. It's actually awesome. I wish I was like that too. I just look strong too. Well, I don't, I mean, it's so impressive that I'm trying to think of, you know, what the guy looks like that I know that pools, squats, moves the kind of way you do, and he's five times your size.

You know, like, there's, I only, I only met a handful of humans that move that kind of weight, and everyone that does, and most of them are like one or the other, right? They're a squatter, and that's all they do. And he, you know, he squats maybe how much you squat, but, uh, and he's five times your size, you know? So I just think that's just fucking unbelievably impressive, but it also is, it has a lot to say about like, you'd make a good rest of your, your emphasis on the detail, the mechanics and understanding how important that is. I mean, it could be the difference of

the mechanics and understanding how important that is. I mean, it could be the difference of so many pounds, like just being off by the micro adjustment in your swing over 10 minutes of swinging, could equate to? Well, it's like, it's the embodiment of like, how I used to look at strength growing up. So I always admired the guy that was like, really lean and dense and hard and was like throwing,

like insane amounts of weight out there versus some of you that's already got all this mass and you almost kind of expect that. But then like you start trying to figure out what strength really is and you start like bringing it back you know to the central nervous system and you know how well you communicate with your body and it just goes to show you know, it's body intelligence.

When you get, when you learn more and you learn all these little techniques and you get even further connected with your body, it's like, it's so impressive what you're capable of, you know, and you've just figured out, like I feel like you figured out that process. Well, on this crazy micro level too, because that's where, I mean,

just finished reading the book, the Nike book, right, Phil Knight, and his story, and the whole evolution of the Nike shoe, and where it came from, like his, that was a partnership with his, his running coach, and his running coach used to take these old shoes, and he would modify himself. He started putting it together like,

oh wow, if I could take one ounce off my runner shoes that have to run these four miles, he would mathematically equate what that would be, poundage that they would have to not have to carry now around those laps, which it would in turn shave three seconds off their time. Which is anybody who runs, knows is like three seconds is huge difference, right?

Well, one thing we need to consider is like having big muscles, but not having function, you don't really get a lot of benefit from that. You just don't. I mean, besides looking, you know, a certain way, there's definitely a potential, I get that intimidating factor to it. It is, and if you're a bodybuilder, you know,

or whatever, you wanna look a certain way, I get that part, but in terms of function and health, muscles don't really, they're dumb. Without that connection, without that performance, if I just add a hundred pounds on your body of muscle, and that hundred pounds of muscle doesn't really give you more strength, I might as well add just a hundred pounds

of just dead weight on you. You've actually lost functionality, lost performance. On the flip side, if I can keep my muscle the way it is now, and you know, double or triple my strength and performance and mobility, I'm dangerous. Well, you know, another thing that I think is so unique about my too is that, and I get to ask you, if you ever went through this and this was a part of your getting older and mature, to not want to test that a little bit.

I mean, I feel like most men that have strength like that tend to have this ego that goes along with that. And is that something that you ever felt as a struggle? Did you ever have this struggle? And I know you went through check, so I'm sure you got into a little bit of the mind and all that together with the body and how that all works. Did you ever have this inner ego struggle of I'm this really strong guy got into a little bit of the mind and all that together with the body and how that all works.

Did you ever have this inner ego struggle of, I'm this really strong guy and I want to test that against other strong guys or do you find that outlet through sports and that's what keeps you calm and cool. I definitely think, you know, I find that through sports, but one of the things that I was thinking back to was, so the reason why, you know, I first kind of started working with Paul as a coach a few years ago and right now I'm pretty much doing all my own stuff, my programming and such, but I'd gone to Paul because I had been injured.

At that time, I competed for almost four years at that point and every single competition I would get, so there's the rank of Master's Sport and then one below it is called candidate Master's Sport or CMS. So for almost two years for sure consistently, every single competition that I would enter, I would get super close to the rank, but then have to put the bells down because I'd lose all feeling in my left arm. And so over two years, I went to almost nine to ten different practitioners, all really wise people, but no one could kind of figure it out. So when I went to Paul, he brought up a bunch of good stuff and thankfully we were able to kind of come to the root cause

of what was a compartment syndrome in the arm. But when I first started lifting and he wanted to change my technique quite a bit at that time, and I had just been able to lift two 32 kilos, 37 reps. And just by changing the technique, using still in the clean and jerk fashion, using 50% of the weight for 50% of the time, I couldn't even knock out 50% of the reps. So just doing 20 reps, even just two weeks earlier, what I had just been in competition.

And that was like, talk about like an ego crush. It's like I had kind of this false sense of strength, this false sense of, and so I think, you know, as great as the kettlebell sport is, I think, you know, there's certain, so to be successful in kettlebell sport in my eyes, like the qualities that you want to develop first is one, flexibility, mobility as a whole, as well as sports specific flexibility, because there's certain, we're going to call them strategies that we use posh really to endure in last 10 minutes. So that's kind of the first thing that you want to develop. Then I would say second, close second is technique. Then after that, I would say endurance.

Then after that, I would say strength. So it kind of goes in that order. And that's I think where you want to focus. And any time you brought up a great point earlier, Adam, you said, you know, when you say sport, you automatically, I don't want to say you discount health by any means. You said, when you say sport, you automatically, I don't wanna say you discount health by any means, but as soon as you say sport, you delineate the intention, right?

So if the intention is sport, what is the main intention? And in my eyes, it's to win, right? So I would say health of the system comes close second, but there's time and place. So it depends where you are on your training cycle, Sal, you had asked earlier, what do I do after a training cycle? Usually after a competition,

usually I always go into about four to six weeks of a corrective phase. So every single sport's gonna have their classic imbalances and I think one of the things as, the sport is great as it is, it hasn't been around in the states for very long. So as coaches, we're still learning a lot. And I think one of the greatest areas that we have to learn as kettlebell sport coaches

in this country is the value of qualifying our clients, of cycling, of having a dedicated corrective phase, really truly looking at, I mean, if you look at, you know, what a baseball player is, how many game to baseball players play all season? When it's the off scene, you better believe if you're a pitcher, you're going to be doing a lot of bodywork, if you're not doing it already, a lot of corrective exercise. If we're truly to look at it like a sport, then every single sport needs to correct the imbalances and just... Think about this, like a world-class snatcher, more or less is going to be able to do about

200 repetitions, 100 in each arm, with 132 kilo kettlebell. So imagine that's almost seven, maybe more, about seven tons of work in 10 minutes, you're able to accomplish. So. Most people take about a month to accomplish that, by the way. If you were to, those that aren't math people, like it's like a month of working out for you.

A month of working out for the average person. Well imagine if there's like a month of working out for the average person. Imagine if there's even a dysfunction at a micro level, at 200 repetitions, not to mention all the training that you went leading up to that. Imagine, and this is I think where CrossFit or just high volume activities, there sometimes can be challenges with them.

And I heard this saying, and I love it, it's like a lot of these gyms are adding, they're just adding fitness to dysfunction. Right, so first make it functional, and then you can add fitness as opposed to the other way around. And I think if you focus there, that's how you increase the longevity

of no matter what sport or activity you're doing. You focus first on balancing the person, focus first on the stable base, and then you'll be able to do whatever the hell you want with. This is why we were so pumped which you know we had to give Red green and black because we knew that's what the consumer wanted But we were so excited about prime and the most recent program because That's addressing the dysfunction that's addressing that's how everybody should start

I don't give a I don't care what you're doing whether you're doing a sport or regress to yes Everybody should start there first and address that before they move on to anything. So I think that's such an awesome point. Now Mike, we don't need to go too much into detail, but let's talk a little bit about nutrition for a second here. Do you do anything in particular with nutrition to improve your performance, especially leading up to a competition? You know, I'm pretty, pretty simple.

Like, I would say my nutritional philosophy is quite simple. Like, oh, is organic nutrient dense foods. I do not a big supplement takeer powders and bars and stuff like that. I think I have like a one pound jug of protein that's lasting to me like two years. So it's pretty much just emergencies. I don't really take very much supplements at all. I grow a lot of my own food. I have a garden in the back. I go to the farm. You know, I buy we buy a whole beef, a whole cow each year. So I like supporting local organic farms.

I saw your posts the other day on Instagram. You had all the liver and stuff like that in your freezer, right? Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, do a lot of organ meats as much as I can, you know, usually sometimes once a week at least. So very, very simple, more of an intuitive, more of an intuitive eater. I don't really have, just like my programming, I definitely have a plan and there's definitely foundations that carry through,

but aside from what I just said, you know, nutrient dense food, organic foods, not prone flammatory foods, I don't really eat just because I don't react well to it. Like I don't drink, I don't usually eat grains. I would say more of a, if you were to categorize, which I don't like the whole categor to it. I don't drink, I don't usually eat grains. I would say more of a, if you were to categorize which I don't like the whole categorization idea. We don't either.

I guess it's a paleo-S-dye, but it's more just what I do well on. I'm not attached to anything, and I'll try pretty much anything so long as it, I do good on it and it's from a good source. Now, have you always been this way or is this a progression over time of you learning your body and connecting the dots to certain foods? Like how long did it take? Because I we talk a lot about on the show about not putting ourselves in boxes and Taking from all these different paleo ketogenic Vegetarian like all these different diets like they all have bits and pieces that

Have good science behind them But the ultimate goal is to get to this intuitive eating like you're saying, you know, was that a progression for you or have you always been like, I mean, how did you get there? I think actually, so I think I started more along those lines. So I was, when I was growing up, I lived with my grandparents and my grandpa would just grow pretty much. He was a civilian, obviously, mom and dad and me and salivate this discussion. He's a good man. I mean, he would grow, he would grow all of his food. So that's kind of how I grew up.

You know, he would always just take food off the tree and give it to us and would cook every meal and that. But then once I started getting into competing, you know, obviously I always wanted the edge. So, you know, EAS was huge, you know, when I was 15 and like there are nutrition guides. And, you know, I was very, very disciplined, like even, you know, in high school. And, but I, very disciplined, like even in high school.

But I didn't really have access to very good information. And it wasn't until I was about 18 when I was a strength conditioning coach, I started working at a holistic lifestyle center that I started. That's when I first got exposed to kind of like the foundation principles and a lot of stuff that Paul teaches. So that's kind of where I started getting more into it. But I would say most focused is been in the last three years. Getting a little bit away from so much head knowledge, not that it's not very important and can support everything, but I think as a whole

Culturally we tend to be so much up in our heads and I think bringing that back down to kind of connecting and and really just figuring out what what we need in that moment and being willing to not be so hard on ourselves or not be so like disciplined in certain areas, I think, can be a great message for people. That's what I... So up until 18, you did take a lot of supplements. Did you ever... Ton. Do you have any...

Well, here's something I found, this is all anecdotes, but just everybody I know who took a ton of supplements, we all have gut issues now. Did you have you encountered anything like that? Horrible gut issues. Horrible. So it's like fucking everybody. It's sort of fungal infections, parasite infections, bacterial infections.

I had H. Pylori, which caused stomach ulcers, two parasites. So I had a bunch of issues. And so, thankfully, it wasn't until I started healing those that I think my performance really started increasing. You know what's really cool, so one of the things that I noticed is my ability to put on muscle or especially to recover, following getting rid of those, it took me almost two and a half, three years of dedicated working

with functional medicine practitioner to identify first, and then we went so many different rounds of herbs and retesting and testing, but it was a long row. But after I did that, like one of the things I can definitely say I've noticed my ability to recover and my ability to put on size happens a lot quicker. Excellent, this has been fantastic, man. I feel like if mind pump created the perfect kettlebell

that actually represented all the stuff we talk about, it would be you. But I'm nutrition to fitness, it's all lines. I really appreciate your contribution. You are the first, I mean, we're sponsoring you at this next upcoming event. And there's a reason why we picked you as the first person. And we really hope and wish you the best.

And we appreciate your collaboration with our K-P4A. Yeah, so people are really digging that program and definitely your huge contribution to that. Yeah, they're excited about learning more about the sport. Yeah, Mike, why don't you plug some of your social media and stuff like that? Because I know I had some people ask me that, like where do I find this guy?

Like his tips were great when they kettlebell, so could you plug all your stuff where people can find you, like, where do I find this guy? Like, his tips were great when they kettlebell, so, could you plug all your stuff where people can find you? Yeah, absolutely. So right now, I'm pretty much most avid, which I'm trying to be a little bit more kind of active on, but Instagram, and the kettlebell lifestyle, so there's three Ls.

And that's where I'm most have, I've got a Facebook page and stuff, but I would say that's to find out kind of the most up-to-date information. That's where to go. Website is kettlebell lifestyle.com. And I mean, I'm super excited. I'm super excited for everything that we're doing.

I'm honored. You know, this is, I think what it shows, and this is probably why I'm so excited about the sponsorship is, you guys are like the first people I think that are. I mean, I think kettlebell sport is definitely growing. I think it's definitely kind of the future of a lot of where things are heading in terms of kettlebells and strength and performance. But you guys, I think, are having a foresight

to kind of see that. And I think it's opening up the door. I mean, we've got, we're a very grassroots sport, right? There's no, up to this point, there hasn't been any money in the sport. We do it because we love it. One of the things that I think you guys will love when you guys come to a competition is, you'll see the environment and we would do it because we love it. One of the things that I think you guys will love when you guys come to a competition

is you'll see the environment and you'll see the community. And, out of all the communities, and not that I didn't have a tremendous time in power lifting, I would still like to compete in power lifting. And I had a great time in Olympic weightlifting, something I would still like to do. Kettlebell Sport, just like every community, is unique to each other. And Kettlebell Sport has probably, in my experience, has been the most welcoming and open arms organizations and people I've ever met.

So, and what you guys are doing, there's so many athletes in the future that are gonna get, this is gonna bring in more companies and more people. We hope so. That's what I'm hoping, so that's what I'm most excited about. We hope so, We like the direction. We like the message.

We love competition, obviously, especially when it's in its pure form. It's in a very impure in the sense of not pure, like it has to be perfect in terms of the history and tradition of the intentions. The intentions are pure. It's got great intentions. I've met other kettlebell athletes

and fantastic people. So it's going gonna be awesome. Listen, if you like Mind Pump, leave us a five star rating review on iTunes. If we like your review and we pick it, you'll get a free Mind Pump T-shirt. You can also find us on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin and Doug is at Mind Pump Doug.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump Justin and Doug is at Mind Pump Doug. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos,

the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money back guarantee Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a fine star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump.