Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 508: Josh "The Punk" Thomson

Episode Date: May 15, 2017

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Josh “The Punk” Thomson. Josh a well-known mixed martial artist who currently competes in Bellator MMA's lightweight division. A professional competitor since 2001, Thomson has also competed in PRIDE, Strikeforce, UFC, & the World Fighting Alliance. Thomson is a former Strikeforce World Lightweight Champion and a former Strikeforce U.S. Lightweight Champion. (Wikipedia)

Today's mom's day. Happy mom of day. Mom, I love you so much. You bit, did you call your mom today? Of course. Yeah, of course I call her every single day. If I don't she'll kill me. No, happy mother's day.

Today's the last day of our flash sale. This is actually the biggest flash sale we've ever done because we've never done a flash sale with a bundle. And this is for the build your butt bump. Yeah, Doug wasn't really excited about that because the bundles are already grossly discounted and then to turn around and give half off of it on top of that he was a little worried about that now the butt builder bundle has maps and a ball of maps aesthetic but it also has a mod in there will be programmed out

what you can do to turn your glutes back on because one of the problems that we have seen time and time again with man and women who can't develop their glutes. It's not necessarily the exercises that they're not doing, it's that their glutes don't fire the way they want them to. So the mod has movements and techniques that turn those glutes back on so that when you go do your dead lifts and your squats and your other traditional exercises, you get more activation in the glutes. And that's included with this.

So you get Maps Antiboliculk, Maps aesthetic, the mod, and it's already discounted, and then we cut it in half again. It's a flash sale, which means it's ending. Very actually, this is the last day. It's the final day, right? Yep, one this air. So you go to mindpumpmedia.com and sign up there.

If you wanna pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Josh Thompson, great guy man. Stutt, did you grow up watching? For a guy that's been punched in the face a lot, he's a handsome motherfucker.

I can't believe how young he looks. He's a handsome motherfucker. He's my age, yeah no, he's a good looking dude. Yeah. He's a, I grew up watching the guy. He's one of my favorite Yeah, no, he's a good looking dude. Yeah. Yeah. He's a I grew up watching the guy He's one of my favorite MMA fighters back in the day because he was one of the earlier like pure Mixed martial artists like back when he kind of started you still had guys that were either just really good grapplers or really good strikers and

Josh is all of that stuff and he's very athletic. He's the real punk. The real punk. So you're going to hear us talking to Josh Thompson in this next podcast. Now you can find him on Instagram at the real punk on Facebook. It's Josh Thompson or Josh the punk Thompson. And you got to check out his gym. He's actually got a a jujitsu slash MMA slash place where you could work out in San Jose. It's Knox gym. And you can look them up online at noxjim.com.

That's K and Oxxgim.com. And he also has a podcast, which is pretty cool. It's called Sammy and the punk. He's really what's really neat about this episode is if you don't know who Josh Thompson is, he's been in like almost every organization, like all the main, all the big ones. So he had, he shared some great old Dana White stories and the difference between pride and all those different organizations. I mean, he's had an opportunity to, you know, fight some of the most elite athletes that have came through the UFC. So. And we got to film some cool the most elite athletes that have came through the UFC. And we got to film some cool exercise moves with him.

What's really cool was he was showing us how to do things like use a physio ball to train for Jiu-Jitsu. And as he's showing us, we're just like, wow, that's a great exercise. Even if you don't do Jiu-Jitsu, these are great movements for proprioception, for core stability, for hip mobility. So super exciting because Doug actually put together a YouTube series that he shot and

it'll be live when this goes live. So when you're hearing this, so make sure you guys run over there, pause this right now, get over to the Mind Pump TV YouTube channel. Subscribe to that if you're not already subscribed and you guys will get a chance to see the series that we put together with Josh Thompson. I got to do a little Jiu-Jitsu with him, so it's kind of cool. So without any further ado, here's mine pump talking to Josh Thompson. I did the blind date. The show, the UFC had me on the show blind. Oh, no way. So they had a whole week of fighters. And it was me, Tiki Goshen, Pete Spratt, Tim Sylvia, a couple of anyways. So I show up and then they introduce you to your girl

that you're supposed to go on this date with. You know, and the thing was we had to do this show and I'll give you the run down on the gist on that whole deal, but man, they fucking Dana White's just stuck, he called us and he was, hey, you guys need to do this show for me. Then I was like, I was like, I have a girlfriend, man. I mean, my girlfriend. man. I think my girlfriend.

Oh, no, it's a good girl for a lot. One of the guys was married. What? One of the fighters was married. What a dick move. Yeah. Then go ahead. But so he just made you guys.

What I said, he made us. So guys like Nick Diaz turned it down. If you notice, Nick Diaz got cut from the UFC right after that. No. Oh, shit. You know what's fun? Because that's stupid show.

Yeah, because that's stupid, because he said, no, look, and when we sign our contracts, our contract says, you have to do any PR events and they set up for you, okay? You can't say no. So he said, yeah,

it next like, I ain't doing that fucking show. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. No fucking way. I'm doing that show. So he didn't do the show. But what I was trying to say was that we're talking about, how we talking about all the topics beforehand.

When you walk onto the show blind date, they separate you guys. You can't talk. Every time the camera cuts, you're not, they separate you. They grab her and they grab you and they pull you guys away from each other. So they catch everything on it.

Oh wow. Yeah, they don't let you guys talk. Even across, like they say, no, we want her to look this way. You guys can't even make eye contact. They want to capture all those moments. Whoa. Yeah. So maybe that's something you guys should do as soon as the guest walks wanna capture all those moments. Whoa. Yeah.

So maybe that's something you guys should do as soon as the guest walks in, like, hey, you go over there and look for him. Go in the corner, you go fucking guy, don't say one word. Yeah, we'll get team-un-eated. I don't realize that they were that. So controlling.

Oh yeah, 100% man. Like, I mean, like, and then. Because I hear a lot of rumors about you here fighters, some of the fight, especially after they leave the UFC, like they complain about how they operate, and you hear it, and you're not sure if it's that really what it's like, or they're just saying that because they left,

but I guess, I mean, you hear enough of it, it's gotta be true. Well, it goes for any company like Google, if I worked for Google, right? I wouldn't talk shit about them, I'm the one who worked there. It's like my pay scale. It's the same thing, as soon as the guys are more vocal

once they leave. But I mean, they are controlling, but you also know what you're getting yourself into when you sign that contract. Let's not be mistaken, man. You're gonna pay me, and I'm gonna go on this show. I got paid to go on that show the blind date, but it's like you put me in a really shitty situation.

Oh yeah, I turned to my, I got a turn to my girlfriend. I'd be like, hey, who I was with for years. You know, I'm like, yeah, I gotta go on this show. And I'm like, I had to explain her that, like literally everything you saw, that's the only time we talked, because I didn't talk to her in between. She's like, yeah, yeah, whatever.

But I mean, the point is, no, we didn't, we didn't talk. Oh my God. I want to capture everything. So you got to lay this out for us. I didn't even know this was a show that you really saw. No, she was hot. What they do is, that's actually makes it worse, bro.

I'm going home and telling your girls like a dime piece that you had to pretend to like. What made it worse was that they actually do research on the girl or whoever girls that you've dated or girls that you're interested in. And they bring in a girl that's like that. This girl just so happened to be like my girlfriend. Oh no!

So my girlfriend was like, what the, you're placing me? This is ridiculous. How did they know that you like, you know, this kind of girl's and I was like, what the, you're placing me? This is ridiculous, how did they know that you like, you know, this kind of girl's, and I was like, well, I don't know, honey. I was like, you know, Lidix, is this on Spike? Where's it, where do they air it?

So no, this is an old back in the UFC days, like probably 2002, 2003, because I was in the UFC in 2000, in 2004. So I thought in UFC 44, I think we're on UFC like 250 right now Yeah, and then that the two UFC 250 only counts UFC's that have been like Like what paper views and stuff that doesn't count Fox Fight nights and things like that so there's way more UFC's that are happening I thought I'm 44 46 49 and then so on you're no G for sure

I mean you've been doing this for a long, when was your first pro MMA fight? How old were you? Just back, I just turned 18. 18 years old. Yeah, just turned 18. You've been fighting that long. Not too many people have that kind of staying power.

No, no, it's been a long time, man. It's been a long time. How are you able to do that? Because it's a brutal sport. I mean, you're gonna get hurt, you know? Yeah, I think what happened, I came from a wrestling background, played soccer a lot as well. So I was always in good shape. I just wanted the train. It's actually a true story. You guys will get the gist on this. My little brother was a wrestler too.

Then I was a wrestler in high school. He was wrestling in middle school. And I had started doing like Muay Thai. My grandmother had started doing like Muay Thai. My grandmother had put me in Muay Thai was after school and I had some time. There was between seasons, soccer and wrestling. So she put me in a Muay Thai and her hairdresser son had owned this place, you know? So I was like, all right, whatever I went.

And he also taught Jiu Jitsu. He was actually from San Jose, the Bay Area. He used to train with half-gracy. So he moved up to North Idaho where I was going to high school at at the time. And she had put me in, my brother, who was a wrestler, he's like, no, I want to do the grappling part.

He wanted to do the Jitsu. So I came home one day and I was bigger, I was the better wrestler at the time because he was still pretty young. I came home, I was just a mess with him, head snaps, you know, bullying him around in the house. Well, I got to go, brother.

Yeah, I got to his back and I put my hooks in. I was like Saturday and I riding him, you know, like fucking just putting heavy pressure on him and I crossed my feet and he caught me in a leg lock and he called out. And he was that little smart ass kid that kind of was like this is like, oh what, you want me to,

you're tapping? And he give up, like he was doing that to me as I was tapping me. I'm like, ah, ah, I'm like freaking out. Ah, ah, ah, like going, like going. He's like, no, no, you're ever gonna mess with me again? No, ah, ah, I'm like freaking out. Ah, ah, like going, he's like, no no, you ever gonna mess with me again? No, no, no, no, you know, and putting more pressure

and not putting it so it was one of those scenarios like like within a couple of days, I like, no, I'm gonna take the gits too. And that's how it started. It all started that way, yeah. I mean, as far as the longevity in the sport, it really just comes with like, I've always, I never could afford to eat shit.

You know, I always had to just eat at home and whatever I made at home is what I had. And, you know, I could never afford, you know, soda and drinks and there was like, I had a drink water. Whatever was in the, came out of the faucet. Luckily, I lived in Idaho at the time so the tap water is drinkable. I'm not here in Santa.

Not here in Santa, I was there, it takes a fucking on pinnays. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You look young too. I couldn't believe you're age when you, I mean, I know, I knew you're age, but I forgot. I saw you and you're like, yeah, I'm about your age and I'm like, holy shit. Yeah, yeah, you're too. I couldn't believe your age when I mean I know I knew your age but I forgot and I saw you and you're like

Yeah, I'm about your age like holy shit. Yeah That's your way of calling me old yeah Hey, man, what's the same age so that was a shit sandwich for sure right? How many organs organizations have you fought him so I have fought in I fought all the top organizations around the world So I fought and the UFC was my first big organization I thought and fought and pride and I fought in dream and I fought in strike force. I was the strike force world champion. That's right.

You know, and then I came back to the UFC when the UFC bought. I'm now in with Bellator. So I pretty much, people asked me like, how did I bounce around? But the thing was, is that when the UFC got rid of the weight class, the lightweight division, back in 2004, I had nowhere to go. I could have stayed in the UFC and fought guys at 170, like some of the lightweight guys did. And I was like, fuck that, I've seen him out here, man.

The guy's a fucking huge. Georgetown Pierre is huge for 170. How much did they walk around at? 210. Oh, shit. That's a big cut. That much of a difference? Yeah, John Fitcher trained with him

almost every fucking day. He walks around 202, 205. Easily. Wow? Easily. Wow. Easily. So these guys are making 170. I'm like, dude, I'm not going to 170. You're not your god damn mind.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way. Which ones are your favorite organization, are those? Well, it's hard to say because my favorite organization was Strike Force because I felt like we had something. We finally had got something that we had.

We had to think about all the champions in the UFC right now, we have them, we had, Strike Force had them, Luke Rock, Cold DCs, Jocke Ray, like we had Kane Velasquez. Mm-hmm, he had his first fight, it was in Strike Force. So we had Verdume, who was the champion, who beat Kane, but like he, he was with Strike Force also. Sure he was in the UFC before,

UFC said, oh, he's washed up, he's done, they cut him. Then he went to pride and then he came to strike force after that beat Fador here in, uh, beat Fador here in San Jose. You know, it was like, we had all the top guys. We had all the best heavyweights. 100% except for King. Cause came went, he ended up going to the UFC. But we had all the top heavyweights at the time. We had Alistair over him., we had Fedor, we had, what's it called, Verdouin, we had Caratone off, we had all the best heavy weights, Paul wanted to tell it, we had all the best heavy weights at the time. And then when the UFC bought them, they got the heavy weights.

And that kind of sucked, you know, because you had me and Gil as the best light weights, you could arguably say we were probably the best light weights in the world at the time, because we went to UFC and fuck, we, he could say he arguably beat Benson Henderson and I knocked out Nate Diaz and then he and then I fought Benson next and I arguably beat him as well. Fucking split decision loss is the worst and I broke my thumb, tore all the ligaments in my wrist.

You know, in the first round I still fought the rest of the five rounds and everyone's so pissed that I lost. Do you see that being the model like because you have seen so just gonna ask you? Why is that why do you see the the hopping back and forth the athletes and like what is it about each organization? I mean it can't just be dollars or is it just all so for me when I went to pride I will go out into pride because it's got cocker Scott cocker was he used to he had a relationship with the Japanese. And the relationship with the Japanese was, he used to promote K1 USA. Well, K1 kickboxing, which is kickboxing, K1 Japan was huge, man. It was bigger than pride, right?

Fucking enormous. It was way bigger. And like, I'm the Japanese side. The American kickboxing just wasn't that big. The K1 USA that he used to run. There's, Americans weren't really into kickboxing as much as they were into boxing and getting into MMA at the time. So he decided like, okay, look,

I'm gonna get done with K1. I'm gonna fold that up. He had already owned strike force. I was fighting after the UFC, after UFC got rid of the lightweight division. I was fighting for Scott Coker as a kickboxer, just to make money, man. Like I was like, look, I still wanna fight. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I was like, Twitter Coker as a kickboxer just to make money, man. Like I was like, look, I still wanna fight.

I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I was like, twirling my thumbs, like fuck my career's over. And but in reality, he was like, hey, I'll get you a kickboxing fight. Fighting like, you know, whoever. But still, $2,000 here, $1,500 here was like, fuck better than nothing.

You know, I knew I wanted to be a fighter. So I fought kickboxing, just kickboxing, then he called me and said, hey, I got a fight for you and pride. Well at the time, I was the number one guy in the world when I fought my last fight in the UFC against Eve's Edwards and I lost, but that fight should have been for the UFC lightweight title,

which is so upsetting because that fight should have been for the title and then they cut down the division right after that. We were the actual official last fight. Why wasn't it explained that? They were just, they were hemorrhaging money to keep the organization open. Oh wow.

So that's when they started, after I had left, shortly after that, they started the ultimate fighter. And if you watched the documentary, so before that, they weren't that financially successful. No, the ultimate fighter turned it around. Ultimate fight. And had they not had that one fight with Forrest and stuff and all that.

That whole thing would have been a fucking awesome. How crazy is that then? Because that was an epic, I mean, I've watched all the, I've watched every season. I've been a fan of UFC since the very beginning when it was underground and, you know, and nobody really knew about it.

But man, that season, when that happened, that was so big. And what a power move for Dana to actually allow both those guys to go in the UFC after that. How could you not right after to that? Yeah, no exactly It's a hundred percent how you gonna tell one person know you don't get the six-figure contract You gotta be fucking out of your mind, right? Like came in that was a fan favorite fight for years It's still when they when you go into an arena. I don't know if you guys have actually been new in a UFC arena

Yeah, when they fight that's the fight that they show when they come out to the um What's that movie? Shit, it's real famous. Wait, they play the song to it. The thing that I don't like the, bag pipes, the bag pipes. Oh yeah, Braver. Braver? No, no, no, no, no, no.

The other Irish movie were there killing people. They're like, but, oh man. Come on Justin, this is your real house bro. The two Irish brothers that just kill everybody. Yes, it's the, the, the, Boundocks. Boundocks, say their, come on.

That is, oh man. I can't hear your name all over. I heard my brain. I was gonna's the, it's the, the, the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, I was gonna say highlander and I'm like, that's Scottish. It's, yeah, I'm glad I did. It's like one of my favorite movies to go show down there. It's an anti-division, my favorite movies, yeah.

But that, when you walk into the arena and then they get ready to start the main event, that song comes on and that fight comes on. Yeah. That's how popular, that, that's how much respect they still showed of that fight because that's really what kept the organization alive. Being in the sport as long as you have from 18 till now, I mean, that's you've seen it change so much.

What are some of the things that just? What are the good things in one of the bad things that you've seen? The good things are that the sport is growing. Kids are now doing it from the time that they start martial arts, it's MMA. You know, I'm not a proponent of kids striking to the head, and doing MMA at a young age, because now we know a lot more research

and stuff that studies a show with the CTE, but I just, I want them to know how to defend themselves. If you want your kid to stop being bullied, fucking give him some sort of martial art to protect himself. And what I try to tell people that the best two martial arts you can teach your child is Jiu Jitsu and wrestling.

Because you wanna know why, almost 95% of the fights kids they end up on the ground. Right. Why not just have your kid learn Jiu Jitsu and wrestling so the kid knows how to take the fight to the ground, get to a submission position, and then yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, viral. This like kids pushing him, hitting him, this and that and the other small little skinny kid drops his backpack and just fucking lights him up. Not just lights him up on the feet, but then boom, does like a jumping swinging arm bar. And then he's like holding the arm bar. He's like, K-look, are you done? The guys like, get off me bitch, get off me.

Dude, you're getting a fucking arm bar. Why are you talking shit? You know what I mean? But it's like that type of scenario with the kids like, hey, are you done? Stop trying out, you know, stop trying to fuck with me. He's got him in the arm bar position, the kid are you done? Stop trying to, you know, stop trying to fuck with me. He's got him in the R-bar position, the kid can't move.

You know, then the kid lets go, because when you teach your kids at a young age, that they can control themselves in that scenario. Like if you didn't teach the kid those martial arts and he saw that just off TV, he would have broke the kids arm. But the fact that he's trained in that, now he's just thinking to himself,

I've got him, he's not moving. I can wait for someone to come break it up or just until the kid says, okay, I give up. That's one of my favorite things about Jiu-Jitsu is that you can, if you have to, you can fight and you can control someone and you don't have to hurt them in order to win, you know, a confrontation,

whereas if you're teaching your kids boxing or kickboxing, which is fine too, but when they defend themselves, yeah, they're gonna be deadly, and in order to defend themselves, they're gonna break some other kid's face or nose or whatever, and especially nowadays with the way people see each other.

It's like, you don't wanna get that letter from you. You don't wanna get called from the school, like your kid just broke some of the kid's face, like, oh shit, I got papers. Yeah, I just feel like Strikes is not really the way to teach your child. You know, I just feel that Jiu-Jitsu and wrestling are the main ways.

Also, an individual sport like wrestling teaches your kid to grid it out in a 90 degree room when they're exhausted. So what happens, what I've learned, I've worked with a lot of kids' actions as a matter of fact, right before I came here, I had two kids that I was training, that I do like sports and agility training with them.

But I get to the point where they're so tired, that they, to the point of exhaustion, where they start to cry. And maybe it sounds really harsh, but the reason why kids cry after a competition, not because they lost, because they've exerted so much energy and they still didn't win.

That's why they have no idea what it's like to be tired. You know, like I've seen kids run around and run around and run around, right? When they run around and run around, they don't feel it. The all of a sudden you see one time, they're like, they're sweating, they can stop whenever they want,

but when you make a kid go beyond that little bit extra where their body just, they're not used to being exhausted. They don't know what that feeling is where they can't breathe, where their muscles are so tired, they don't know what to do so they just start to cry. And I said like it's a normal thing. So teaching a child to go that their body can do so much more because their mind all their mind has to do is will them to do that. But they just have to get used to they have to develop that by training it and doing it more often. You know, it's funny. You talk about that. And when you watch Mixed Martial Arts, the people who are known to be the toughest in the

sense of the grinders, the guys that are not going to give up that are going to fight and keep going are the wrestlers, usually the wrestlers. And people wonder why. Like why is it that the wrestlers are just so gritty and tough? And if you go to like a good high school or junior high wrestling, you know, you go see the wrestling practice in the coaches, if you figure it out, like at a young age, they understand how to push themselves hard. They understand how to, you know, deal with pain and sexually, physically taxing.

Wrestling is ultimate degree. Wrestling is mentally very, like people who have been wrestling for a long time, they're just mentally very, very, very tough, especially when you get your hands on somebody at a super high level. Like, in order to beat that person, you have to really beat them. Well, there's definitely an argument, too, to take, you know, kids and athletes to work on their mental discipline and their fortitude, and then, you and then kind of establish that in order to then pursue greatness. And so there's a smart side to training as far as not getting too exhausted to lead up into competition, but at the same time establishing that overcoming mentality is so crucial to do.

Well, the real lesson isn't even necessarily in the exhaustion aspect of it, it's in what happens after and how you communicate that, you know, how you can communicate that. And if you think about fitness, I've worked with a lot of kids here. I love working with kids. And the thing I love about fitness with kids is that it's such a, it's such a nice, clear kind of example, a very small microchasm of what life kind of is like, but it's simple, right? We're moving, we're exercising, we're running, or whatever, and then they learn how

to deal with that. And then those lessons actually have a lot of carryover into everyday life. So when they, you know, their girlfriend breaks up with them or life, you know, they lose their job or whatever, they just, they have that skill. Well, Josh, I want you to go, I want to go back again to the, what you've seen the good and the bad of the evolution of the sport.

I don't know if you listen to Fighter in the Kid or how well you know like Brendan Shaw, I know he talks a little bit on his show about that, what are your thoughts on the evolution of the sport and UFC and specifically talking about them and where it's gone and where it was? Like, what do you like, what do you don't like?

There's so many different things. I loved when it was five, six shows a year, but then I understand the importance of having it more often. But I also don't like how it's every weekend, sometimes two shows in a weekend, three shows. Now you're taking the importance of the athlete who's grinded their whole life away to become popular and become a star.

There's no, they're not stars anymore. So back in the day when there was five to seven to 10 shows a year, right? It was special. To make that card was a big hit. Well, not just that, not just to make that card, but then when you knew where you were signed by the UFC, you knew you were a top talent in the world

Now they have shows every weekend like I think about a month ago or two months ago They had a show in Germany and they had a show in Brazil in the same night Like literally both shows with the same night and then they had a show the next night here in the US So three shows all within a 24-hour period now they did it because the time change You're not gonna watch the show in Germany at that, you know at eight o'clock without already seeing the news and seeing what the results were and blah, blah, blah. And it was on fight, it was on a fight pass. But I just, I see that what happens is when it grows, when it grows so fast, now there's no stars. And when there's no stars, the fighter doesn't get treated the way that they should the athlete doesn't get treated the way they should Okay, I think that's the problem that they're seeing right now in college football

They're like hey my jersey was the number one selling jersey in the world Why am I not getting anything for this like I'm struggling to like paint to wash my damn clothes Yeah, you know and I'm not getting paid for this you know know, I was like, you're making all this money off me because you gave me a $35,000 education. You know, but I'm gonna be gone in a year. You know, that's why I'm leaving to the NFL. That's why I'm leaving to the NBA is because I'm a one off because I'm gonna make my money.

Get out, I know I'm a draw. I'm gonna go to the NFL and make money. I just see that in the, the select that, Dana and the Frateraitas had did a good job of making sure that Dana was the star. When Chuck had left, he was the last big star that they had. Chuck Randy. That was it. He was like, because I don't know if you guys know the history on Tito and Chuck. They used to be managed by Dana. So when he had it, they were managed by him. Yeah when he had another managed by yeah

Dan was their manager back before they had bought the UFC so he had turned and said hey When he had met the Frateras they he knew that the UFC was for sale So he had turned to the Frateras and said hey this I think there might be something here the Frateras said You know what you might be right? So they've decided to buy the UFC and they ran on it with that for a while but I think what Dana and them have done is What better way to make sure that you're always staying focused on the UFC is to make Dana for star? Because Dana's not going anywhere. He's got no. He's got money invested. He's not gonna lose a fight and He's gonna always be there. No way is he leaving that organization

lose a fight and he's gonna always be there. No way is he leaving that organization. He's got, he owned 10, 12, 15, I don't know what the percentage was, but he owned percentage of the company. He's not going anywhere. The other thing that you're gonna do with him is you're gonna make other guys, the other people you're gonna make celebrities, the ring girls. Bro, have you seen the following those ring girls have?

And I'm not knocking them for being what, you know, for being what they are. I think it's great, but these ring girls have and I'm not knocking them for being what you know for being what they are I think it's great But these ring girls have got you know 800 one million one point five million followers just making money handover Oh, that would actually be really frustrating if you're a fighter in there getting your ass wolf man And fighting for your life and you got girl ring girls making our money Ring girls making more money than you it's the worst thing when you get on a plane as a fighter, right? It makes this company and you get on the plane

and you're walking past first class and all the ring goes are sitting. Oh, that would piss me off. I'm sorry. I've gotta be demoralizing to them. I've been blessed enough to like make enough money. It's like, yes, you're all upgrade, you know? But there's times where I'm like,

I'm only going to LA. It's like an hour flight. I'm not upgrading the first class for an LA flight, like whatever, you know what I mean? But I've gotten on planes to get on. I've gotten on, it's like, there flight. I'm not upgrading to first class for an LA flight, like whatever. You know what I mean? But I've gotten on planes to get on. I've gotten on. It's like, there's Joe Rogan sitting there

and there's, you know, the ring girls there and there's buffer there. And you're like, you're walking past first class and you're just like, man, that sucks. That's a mother fucker right there. Bro, you know, especially when you got guys that are like the Komein event on the card and you're walking past these ring card girls.

Sometimes what's even worse is when you get on a plane and you're walking past these, these ring card girls. Sometimes what's even worse is when you get in on a plane and you're waiting to get on the plane and you're checking your Instagram and you see the ring card girls are flying private. Wow. This is good. I do. And I'm not knocking them.

No, it's not. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Or a peated hits in the nuts. Good job. For the athlete that is making this all possible, it's really upsetting. Yeah.

You know, it's gotta be frustrating. I've actually, and then they tickle your gear on top of that. Yeah, right? With these other deals. That people don't seem to understand that Reebok deal did, that Reebok deal is killed between $60 to $80,000

every fight I made. And what? Yeah, I'm dead. Yeah, easily $60 to $80,000. Whoa! So now, when I was there, my last fight with them was the Reebok deal. I, my last fight with them was the Reebok deal. I only had one fight with them under the Reebok deal.

I made five grand. I had ten fights in the UFC. I made five grand. $5,000 for five. $5,000. Wow! That's insane. Horrible man.

Whereas before that you were making... I was making 60 to 80 Justin Sponsors. Justin Sponsors, that's not kind of my purse. Yeah. Holy cow. Do you think this moved to Belator? It was really like after that whole deal went down? Do you think that's more appealing that way? My moved to Bellator was strictly because I knew Scott Coker, I had a relationship with

Scott Coker. Scott Coker's the reason why I got into pride. When I wasn't with you, I've seen him more when they didn't have a lightweight division. He's the one that got me into pride. I got paid good money for that fight back in the day more than any of the other guys It made then I came back and he started strike force He gave me a great contract. I was making more than I almost triple what I made in the UFC fighting guys That's all said words hurt me's fronka being the number one fighter in the world

He paid me more money and he had broke down the route like literally what he was gonna do is strike force I'm gonna sign Frank Shamrock cunley and do is strike force. I'm gonna sign Frank Shamrock, Kung Lee, and they're gonna fight. I'm gonna sign you, Josh. I'm gonna sign Gil Malinas, and you guys are gonna fight. Okay, and then I'm gonna build everything around you guys. And that's exactly what he did. Cool. So how do you get mad at someone who's actually stand up guy

and says, he does exactly what he said he was gonna do? Right. Now, I mean, the counter argument, of course, from people who represent UFC, they'd say, well, hey, we make it all possible. You know, if it wasn't for us, it wouldn't be this big. And then you hear them say things like, we've got these other stars,

who make shit tons of money, right? We've, we're paid, you know, Ronda Rousey, all this money. We paid, you know, Conor McGregor, all this money. You know, what's your counter to that? I love Ronda Rousey. I love Conor McGregor. I think they're amazing for the sport.

I'm all for them making that money Okay, I just don't see why the other guys can't make a little bit more. I just gonna say there's probably a huge discrepancy between them Oh massive and then the next top fall. Oh, it's it's like less than point zero one percent You know, so if you want to take like the guys in the NFL Sure, maybe you're like say 5% or like less than that make you know what Tom Brady makes and those guys make I get that LeBron he's making the most okay everyone understands I get those yeah but there's two or three of those people in the UFC on a 500 person roster you know there's only two or three of them in the NBA they're all fucking millionaires you know what I mean like this one's not like

even even the the practice squad guys for the NFL make more than these guys make. The practice squad. We talk about practice. You talk about practice. You talk about practice. You know what I mean? Even these guys, even those guys are making more than these guys that are fighting their ass.

What people don't understand is that I grew up on the East Side of San Jose here in San Jose. Okay, I went to May Fair back when it's called May Fair and now it's called Cesar Chavez. And I went to Madison for a year, and then I went to Joseph George. You know what I mean? I grew up on the East Side.

You know what pink elephant is? King and story is, I grew up right there. Literally one block away from pink elephant and recauded the pal stadium. I grew up right there. You know, I used to walk to school, grandma used to watch me walk to school from the sidewalk because I'd live on the same street as Mayfair,

Madison. I grew up right there, man. Like, we came from, like, she'd wake me up and make oatmeal, like that was, I had oatmeal every morning for breakfast, man, or beans and rice with some eggs, like, dude, that was my life. Like that's, so the fact that now that I'm able to make a little bit of money and be able to do these things, I'm like, man, I'm not having beans and rice anymore, fuck. Shit, you know, buddy, you know, it's good with my enchiladas and tacos,

you know, but I'm not having it for breakfast and dinner, you know. But these guys have learned that they've come up the way that I came up and I see, I know the struggles. I know exactly what they're going through. I feel bad for them because the UFC has shifted to stars. And the reason why I feel like they shifted to stars because they don't have the control like they did over Chuck and Tito. And you know, because they had a real, they didn't control Chuck,

but they, he had, Dana had a relationship with Chuck that gave him a little bit more leeway to do what he wanted. He knew that if he stayed told Chuck like, hey, can you do this to appearance for me? Really, I need you to come through for me. He'd be like, yeah, sure. Because you know what Chuck is like, stand up guy. Chuck's one of my best friends, man. I say,. Cause you know what, Chuck, cause they stand up guy.

Chuck's one of my best friends, man. I say, in the industry at all, Chuck's one of my best friends. He's one of my favorites. Him and Randy were my absolute favorites. What kind of advice, if there's someone coming up and trying to get into this sport

and do it professionally, what advice would you give them to be able to, for them to make the most money? Obviously people say win fights, but that's not always true, right? Because you've got people who are, don't have as good a record, who aren't, you know, fighting for championships that just earn a shit ton of money because they have a lot of a high draw. Like, what would you recommend to people? Let me ask you this. Do you guys watch, say, George Cut? Okay, so he's like,

uh, it's like a karate style kid. Yeah, he's that young kid. He's like, Okay, so he's like, uh, it's like a karate style. Yeah, he's that young guy. He's like, you know, he's a shredded kid. He's looking to get shredded, you know. But how would you feel he's got like two or three fights in the U.S. I think he's got four now, okay? But he's got, I think he's, I think he's two and two or three and one. All right, one and three. Sorry, he's got one win or two wins, you know.

Anyways, how would you feel if you were had, let's just say you were one of the guys that were light, which you're like one of the guys that were light, which you're like one of the top guys, and he's making 50 and 50, and you're making 43 and 43. Yeah. How would you feel? Let's just say I'm ranked in the top 20.

This kid's not ranked in the top 20. It's not about the sport at that point. Yeah, it's not a sport anymore. It's like you're literally pushing guys in front of me that don't deserve to be there. It's because they're marketable or whatever. They're supposed to be marketable, but I wanna see, I'm talking about guys in front of me that don't deserve to be there. It's because they're marketable or whatever they're going for. They're supposed to be marketable, but let's talk, I wanna see, I'm talking about fighters, man.

Yes. Man, like you wanna be a fucking fighter? Let me see you be a fucking fighter, okay? When you find guys that lose the same way every time, you know they're not a fighter. You guys understand what I'm saying? Yeah, okay. If the guy gets kicked to the body and he runs to the fence, every time he gets hurt,

he runs to the fence and covers up and puts his hand out which for the ref to stop it. That's someone who is, he's not a fighter. Somebody who just basically gets tapped every time, it's almost same submission or whatever it is, okay? That's not a fighter, okay, sure, maybe you're athletic, sure, maybe you're someone that has all the looks and all the attributes to be a fighter, but you don't have it mentally, you're not a fighter.

How prevalent is that in the industry? Is there, do you think there's a lot of that? How like a majority half, how much of that? Well, I think it's a new generation of guys that are coming up. I don't want to call them the millennials of MMA. But we're going to go ahead and do that. You know what I mean? It's kind of a, it's kind of a, because what it is, they jumped in when they saw the money and the start of was going up. They

jumped in now they're in it, which is good. And they have a look and the flashingness and everything. But then when it comes down when the, when the going gets tough, they just kind of, they, it kind of final ways out. You know what I mean? So when you, when you say that, that makes me think that man, what's that we're going to see this transition in the next five or so years of like kids that were like in their young teens that have built like a large social media presence that come into the U.S. that actually going to probably get a fast track towards, you know, the top and getting paid well because they can I meet Dana Wyatt and I've already got 40,000 followers that follow me because I've built

this social media presence, whether I'm good looking or fit or I know somebody, but now I have that going for me. And now I'm in the sport. There's probably a good chance I'm going to make more money because of that. Is that true? Uh, yes. Uh, but let me ask you this, how does a guy like Roy McDonald after a fight like he had with Robbie Lawler get let go? Yes. But let me ask you this, how does a guy like Roy McDonald after a fight like he had with Robbie Lawler get let go?

Didn't get let go, but was able to even fucking leave. Yeah, why? How are you even able to negotiate with another company? Why did that happen? You gotta be out of your fucking mind. Yeah. And there's a lot of talk right now

that Jocare and Musashi are both on their way out to Melator. Wow. Jocare fights, he fights this weekend. He fights this weekend, he's on his last fight as contract. Musashi has one more fight left or he just fought two weeks ago. I think he's done now. So he's gonna go in negotiate.

He's got like a 60 day non-negotiate. He's gotta only negotiate with the UFC for 60 days. So you have that period where you have exclusive rights to negotiate with just the UFC. But he's gonna wait those 60 days, he's already come out verbally and said like I'm waiting, I'm gonna see you in the free market. Which they all should do. 100% they should all do, that's exactly what I did. I think if there's two companies, fight out exactly which one's willing to pay you the most.

I don't get a shit who you are. Okay, if you're an athlete, fucking invest in yourself. There's nobody else gonna invest in you, but you. Fucking fight your fights. See what the market is. If it's not there, there's no way that you if he's letting them go. Like if you're like,

hey, he's the offer of shit money still gonna be on the table. They're not gonna let you go. But shit money's still gonna be there. I just chose to go with Bellator because the money was substantially more. Not just substantially more, but because the money was substantially more not just substantially more But those the show money was substantially more. So let's just say if you had a chance to make

60 and 60 or 70 and 70 years to understand what that is 70 to 75 to win or what exactly so 60,000 to show up and fight make weight show up and fight then another 60,000 if I win That's a big that's a big drop if you don't fucking win. And then I'll tell you, did you train any less hard for that fight? Exactly. So then second though too, is what happens if I get poked in the eye

and it goes to a fucking no contest? I don't get paid the win money. Yeah. If it's a draw, you don't get paid the win money. If it's a no contest or a legal growing shot or something like that, you don't get paid the win money. So you're both fighters don't get paid the win money. So, you're both fighters don't get paid the win money. So, you're fucking ripping them off again.

We're belt towards contracts, and I'm not just saying this, this is how strike force was as well, is that they are, they're heavy on the show money. So, like if I show up and fight, I'm getting 120,000 or 200,000 to show up and fight, and then like a $30,000 win bonus, you know, or an or no win bonus, but a finishing bonus. If I knock you out or submit you, I get a $100,000 finishing bonus.

Like you're talking, it gives me incentive to push and try and get the finish, but I'm still getting paid fucking great money. I was just going to say until you said that I didn't say, well, then I would be worried that some guys would just, whatever, I'm not going gonna train very hard because I don't care if I win You have such a big purse so I get what the USC you do there But then you said that right there that you get a purse for yeah, you get a purt. You get a purt You're show money is higher, which I understand what you're saying. Yeah, like all the show money's higher So people don't give a shit. Yeah, but then if I turn around and say hey, I give you another say 50 grand if you get a finish

Yeah, it's if you get a submission, you're gonna fight harder. Not just a win, a finish. If you get a finishing bonus, I'm gonna fuck. Well, I think, I think today, you can be a really smart, I guess, businessman with yourself because of things like social media and whatnot. I look at, like, we're in fitness, we're in the fitness industry. And back in the day, if you at, we're in fitness, we're in the fitness industry.

And back in the day, if you were, I don't know, Mr. Olympia, or you could make a lot of money, and you probably made more money than everybody else because you were your first place. Today, the highest paid athletes in fitness are the ones with the most social media followers. So I'm wondering if fighters can start to figure that out as well. So although you go in there and maybe you're just you're entertaining or when they interview you, you know,

you talk a certain way or whatever, just so you get those followers and build yourself as a business and that might give you some autonomy, you know what I mean? Then you have the power. I agree with you 100%. I think if I was just a weird, original question was what would I tell somebody who's coming up in the sport? In this generation, I would say you need to film and and have someone archive everything that you've done. Okay? And not just for later date, but because as you're going through your workouts, from everything,

the most views and the most viewership stuff that I get is things that I'm doing in my personal life. And I'm not, I don't like to show them, I don't share my personal life with anyone, but when it comes to my training, when it comes to my running the mountains, when it comes to my mountain biking, things like that, that's fine. But my home life is my home life, and it's separate from my family.

You won't see me at my family Easter party, posting pictures and things like that. Well, that's the difference between our generation and the other one. We don't post like our kids and shit like that. Exactly. That's what everybody does now. Yeah, and I get really, I actually get like disturbed when I see friends of mine, they're posting pictures of their kids and my dude. That's what everybody does now. Yeah, and I get really, I actually get like, disturbed when I see you like, friends of mine, they're posting pictures of their kids and my dude. That's fun. Brand and people.

I literally have had in San Jose, I've had people just knock on my door, hey, can I get an autograph? Oh, shit. My home. I'm like, how the fuck did you fight me? Yeah. I've paid all the, the dues, I actually went on all the,

on the internet, and I've actually had my stuff removed from everything on the internet. You can't find me anymore. But it only lasts a year and you gotta redo it again. Every year you gotta do it. I'm like, fuck, how did someone find me? Cause I'm getting mail at my, every once in a while, you don't know.

God, that would trip me to get a fucking mail. So what I do with the family, I don't send it back. Because then they know they had the right address. So I don't send it back, I'm like, no. But anyways, I'm trying to keep my life personal. But as a young athlete, I would tell them to just archive everything, like just record anything you possibly can,

and let people view it, but I would start it on a YouTube channel, where you can make money doing it that way as well. Once you hit a certain amount of subscriber, once you get a certain amount of views, because one of your things may just go viral, like my buddy Shane Faisen who does fight tips. He just did that video yesterday

about the guy being drugged across the Gisborne. That was his video. Oh wow. So he did that video fucking with viral boom. Like, and it was just, he was making fun of the United. He was making fun of the United where the guy's being drugged like through the thing

and he's just showing the escapes. You do a straight video. How to attack from that position, it was fucking awesome. Wait, these aren't the, this wasn't the gracey ones because they made a video too. No, no, so it was, but he did it with them. Oh, he was the one that was saying, yeah, yeah. That video's fucking brilliant.

I was cracking it. I was watching that. Exactly. That's excellent. How, you were just talking about how you film a lot of your training and stuff. Has it changed through the years? Now that you've been doing this for so long,

did your training look different now than it used to? A hundred percent because as you get older, your training's got to change. Your body changes on a weekly basis. What's the difference? I'm going to say the difference. So some of the difference is that, look, when I was 28 to 32,

I would just train like a fucking animal. There was never a moment where I wasn't fucking training. Like I would wake up at 6am, I'd fucking go do an assault bike class at my own gym, I would just fucking train as hard as I could, go back home and just sleep, eat, sleep, shower, get up for noon training with the fighters, fucking train two hours with them whether it was wrestling, Jitsu, sparring, whatever it was.

And then I would come back home, eat shower, sleep, and then wake back up, 6.38, and I'd go back to the gym and just fucking train until 9 o'clock, 9.30 a night. Whether it was kickboxing, bike workout, or sprint on the machine, or whatever it was. And it would change throughout the week. But as I got older, it was like, okay, look, to work out today and that's it.

Because your body just can't do it, man. No matter how clean I eat, no matter how, I even brought a nutritionist in, that stay with me and live with me. I don't know if you guys know who Dan Leeth is. So, he does lock heart lead. So he's the nutritionist for myself, came Velasquez, DC, all these guys.

And so I've had him actually just move in with me. He makes breakfast lunch dinner, everything. He gets you all sorted out. And he lives with you while you're in camp. And so he just takes care of everything you need. That's awesome. And because there are certain times you need to have your macro. Certain times you need to have your sugar. Sometimes you need to have your carbs more,

more of a certain ratio is too. Like I'm afraid it'll hard work. I want more of a three to one ratio, sugar to carbs and that's everything. So he keeps track of all that. Because when you're in camp, you want it to be mindless. I want someone to do everything.

You just want to focus on the training, right? You just want to focus on the training. My mind can't be working. And trying to get the best out of my performance, if it's not focused on the one thing I'm supposed to be working on. Now with your training, do you do put more time now into things like mobility, flexibility,

or massage, and that kind of shit now? So with the massage, yes. But the mobility, no, and I hate to say it. It's the worst fucking thing. Really? I had something happen when I hit like 34. My flexibility just shit took a shit on me. Really?

It's not as what it used to be and you know it just sucks Man, I don't know what it is. I need to spend more time on the actual mobility Gotta be hanging out with brink more. Yeah exactly. He's always on me Always on me about how you gotta do I can't even get my back You know I gotta get off the toilet put one leg up on the thing and try and wipe my ass that way Can't do the reach back anymore. It doesn't it doesn't happen man. I gotta get off the toilet, put one leg up on the thing and try and wipe my ass that way. You know, it's like, can't do the reach back anymore. It doesn't, it doesn't happen, man. I gotta, it's crazy.

Now, what are the advantages that an older fighter would have over a younger fighter? There's gotta be some advantages too, because I remember Randy Couture was whooping the shit out of these young kids. Right. And he, I'm sure there was disadvantages, but there's gotta be some advantage.

So what I try to say about with Randy and with Dan Henderson. Yeah, there's another. There are anomalies, anomalies. So what I try to say about with Randy and with Dan Henderson Yeah, there's another fan on the list anomaly so what happens Randy was so good at wrestling and his game plan was always the same If you ever watch his fights, they were always the same. Yeah, it was punch punch clinch pressure to the fence Get the take down if you can if you can't get it just be the show keep you against the fence beating you up He never stood on the outside That was a Chuck fan man. I was a diehard Chuck fan and those fights are just driving crazy Fuck you know he's gonna do that I used to hate that because that was a Chuck fan man. I was a diehard Chuck fan and those fights were just driving crazy.

Fuck, you know he's gonna do that dude. Exactly, exactly. But no one could stop it. Because his whole game plan was to do that one thing and it's been his game plan ever since he started fighting. But the thing with Dan Henderson, sure he was the same way but as he got older he started relying a lot on just his power. And that's just something you, it doesn't care if,

I don't give a fuck of V60, his fucking power is still gonna be there. The guys in the house. Is that true? We hear that. That's the last thing you lose is the last thing you lose your power, yep. But for smaller guys, that's why there's such a big turnover

in sports for smaller guys. Cause the first thing to go is your speed. You want your speed gone? You want your speed gone? The younger generation of fighters. No, what a great point. You're younger generation of fighters. What a great point. You're going to fuck you up. What a great point.

It's a heavy weight. You can probably carry your heavier classes. You can probably stay a little bit longer because you can rely on that. See, I've experienced some of this before because I've actually, you know, I've done a little bit of sparring. And if you've ever been hit by like a 50 year old boxer,

you see the guy and you're like, oh, he's a 50 year old boxer. And you'll fucking kill you. Like he'll hit you, like a car hit you. And you're like, what is this? He 50 year old boxer and he'll fucking kill you like he'll hit you Like a car hit you and you're like what is the soul out of your body? Yeah, it doesn't make any sense, but this I guess it's true. That's because you always hear that right? Have you seen that video that's viral with the old boxing guy? He gets in the cage or he gets in a ring with this guy this younger kid Yeah, I think it's I think it's in Russia like it earlier's an assesly. And he fucking slaps him. Just puts him out, man.

The kids like given the look like whatever, then the old man hits him, boom, boom, boom, a couple big shots. And people are kind of like giggling and laughing, like, oh, you know, poor old man. And they see, you know, he just fucking slaps the guy and then he hits him through the road. And they have to like pull him off.

They have to pull the old guy off the young guy. They're like pulling him back and he's like, I would ever. You know, it's like the old tie guys. You're a little snapper. Yeah, it's like the old guy off the young guy. They're like pulling him back and he's like, I would have whatever. You know, it's like the old tie guys. You're a sniper. Yeah, it's like the old tie guys that are like, okay, like you're gonna go spar with that young kid.

So the guy throws the fucking cigarette out of his mouth, steps on it, walks in there and just knocks the kid out. It's like. So are there any advantages, though, to be able to do thinking, well, like, are you smarter? I would think the mental confidence the mental confidence experience, right? Right? You probably walk in like no big deal. I've been in here a million times. Yeah. The experience does play a factor.

You pretty much have seen it all, you know, I mean, the game changed a little bit, but isn't changed that drastically to understand. But I think what it's, I wouldn't say there's any advantages of that. I mean, like, just the experience. I mean, if you're an older fighter, you just gotta use what you know and use what you know best. Like that's the thing. Don't try and do anything outside the realm

because you're fighting a younger guy. The issue with the younger fighters, the older fighters with the younger ones, you have to weather their storm because they're gonna exert so much energy so fast in that first round, you gotta get through that first round. Okay, and once you get through that first round,

that's when you slow the pace of the fight down to your level of experience where you can just, okay, I got this. Well, let's talk about the psychology of fighting. How important is that to be able to win? Well, it depends on which one you're talking about. You're talking about the millennial MMA guys, you're talking about the ones that are real fighters.

Well, anyway, I mean, any of them, like what is a winning psychology? Like what are some of the challenges going in? I mean, I've never fought in MMA. I've competed in grappling competitions with Jitsu and Judo as a kid. And I distinctly remember being exhausted going into my first match because I was so too hyped.

I was too hyped and too nervous and whatever going in that I would just get exhausted, way worse stamina than I did when I would train and I couldn't figure it out and as I got older, I figured it out because I was too amped. Let's talk about some of the psychology going into a fight and what are some of the things that you need to, I guess, look out for or focus on.

So if someone is just coming up or what I try to tell people is that you're never gonna be able to train as hard as you're gonna fight because I could spar as hard as I can. Well, so like, let's just say I get ready for a three round fight. I get a fresh guy every round and they come in, they're fucking world beaters, right? They just come in, they're just trying to take my head off.

Doesn't matter, I'm still not gonna fight at the pace that I'm gonna fight if I was fighting somebody else in the ring for real. It's just something happens when you get out there. Different switch. It's just a different switch on both ways. There's nothing you can do about it, but you can try and do the best you can out on the track,

in your workouts, and whatever type of workouts you do. And in your sparring, you just try to always push the pace, always keep the grind on, but you're never gonna get that That true fight feeling until you get in there and fight and like you were saying you were exhausted before your tournament But the reason being is because it's just lack of experience learning how to rest and and learning how to relax Right before that's the biggest thing. I mean shit. I've been fighting for almost 20 years now I mean like I go out now and it's like I don't even trip now Like I have you know I've got my boys in the room and the locker room with me

would just jump and rope, talking shit, you know, and get ready, walk out there, fucking get it, get it on, and move on, collect my check and bounce out. Do you remember a transition to that? Like, was there a time when you were super nervous, overthinking, and then you kind of something happened, or you just over time?

Yeah. I would say it was that way for all my fights up until my after my first fight in the UFC and I got the jitters out of like, you know what, I've made it, you know, like once you're in the UFC and you've got that first win in the UFC, it's like, oh, I fucking made it, you know, cause until you get that first win,

which most of the time at the time was only the biggest organization in the world, you know, it still is, but I'm saying that. It was like the only one. It's the only one. So once you got that win and you're like, oh, fuck, like a is, but I'm saying that. It was like the only one. It's the only one. So once you got that win, and you're like, oh, fuck, like a sense of huge monkey off your back. Just a sense of relief.

Do people, knowing that you're a fighter, and you're recognizable, do people mess with you? In real life? Not anymore, when I was younger, they did. Really? Because the sport wasn't as prevalent as it is now, so it wasn't as big. So when people would actually, like,

oh yeah, I heard you're a fighter and they would talk shit, like, oh, you do that UFC shit or whatever, you know, they would say things like that. But now, fuck, you go to all the clubs around San Jose, all the fucking guys that work the door, they're all trained to get to and they all fucking, they all know who the fuck I am.

You know what I mean? So I don't have any problems. Like literally, it's like, hey, get that guy out of here because he's fucking with me and they're like, guess you're no problem, Josh. Yeah, dude. Have you had to do anything?

Has anybody ever actually? When I was younger, yeah, I got a lot of fights when I was younger, man. It's very unfortunate. Even before you were training, when you were younger? Especially before I was training. Really? Is that what motivated you strongly?

Were you bullied? Were you like a small kid? So when I was a group on the east side, I'm like half white half Mexican. I grew up on the east side. What do you think? I look more white than I am Mexican. So yeah, I got bullied all the time.

Like people trying to bully me around than I got into wrestling. And you know, and then I moved away. And it was like, okay, but in Northern Idaho, it's predominantly white. So here I'm white, up there I'm a spick. So yeah, it depends on what it is. I'm the same way.

So I'm Mexican and German. And depending on if I'm with white people, I'm a spick. If I'm with Mexican people, you know what I'm saying? It's like I'm a Guido. So it's like you're a fucking one of, or not a Guido, but a freaking rink. Honky. Yeah.

One or the other, you know. So funny. Don't fit in with anybody that way. Exactly. Did you have a time like growing up where, you know, where you're training, you know, you, you thought someone and you beat them up or you kept them from beating you up,

that was that really catapulted this like, oh, I love this or this is something I'm gonna keep going. Is there like a staple moment or fight that happened? I'm talking about the street, not inside the... Oh, there's some other street. Yeah, I'm talking about something. No, cause street fights is a completely different mentality. I, you never think about, um, yeah, you never-

Free fights suck. Yeah, there, there, there's no fucking ref. Yeah. You know, but I mean, just so you guys get a, uh, awareness of like, where I come from, like, with my dad, my dad was one of the guys, like, I got, I had a girlfriend in high school when I was living in Idaho. Sure, and I had split up and I was a TA, like a teacher

assistant and I was grading papers and she was walking through the hall and she's like cussing at me. While I'm grading papers, the door was open, teacher wasn't in the room at the time. And her and I go out and I said, hey, you need to get out of here. Like I walk out to the hall and you need to get out of here. I got kids in here and you gotta get out of here.

So she starts cussing at me, she slaps me. Well, I have a couple girlfriends that, in the time, the high school that we were in, there was theater seating, but there was no girlfriends that in the time the high school that we were in there was theater seating But that there was no doors that went into the that went into the classrooms So I had two of my girlfriends that were just friends That they saw her slap me because they had they were looking in the hall You could look back into the hall from the top desk up on the top of the of the tier scene

So she look they see that happen and they walk out and they beat the shit out of her Oh shit, so they beat her up and they walk out, they beat the shit out of her. Oh shit. So they beat her up and I didn't do anything. I was like, whatever. But anyways, I got sent home. So I was like, hey, you were part of this whole thing. You got suspended.

The other two girls got suspended. The, my ex girlfriend got suspended. Well, anyways, I get a call from at my house. I get home and I'm like, I told my dad's, I didn't do anything, you know, listen that. I get a call from, at my house. From this guy who liked my ex girlfriend, he's like, hey, I'm just in that. I get a call from at my house, from this guy who liked my ex girlfriends, I say, hey, I'm coming over your house,

we're gonna fucking do this. You like to push girls around, huh? You think it's funny that your girlfriends are beating her up and this I'm like, dude, you the fuck are you? So we get in this altercation, and he was on the phone, he said, I'm coming to your house, I gave my address. All right, come on over.

Cause that's the way my dad always told me, like, hey, if you're gonna fight, fucking bring it home, you know? I'm like, oh fuck, I gave my address. All right, come on over. Because that's the way my dad always told me, hey, if you're gonna fight, fucking bring it home. You know, I'm like, oh fuck, what? I, he's like, yeah, call all your buddies, and I was like, I got the phone, I called my dad. I was like, hey, dad, come home. Dad comes home from work, you know, and my dad's one of those like gun-toting,

you know, Americans, I just got the fucking. So we, they literally three carloads of fucking kids come. Wow, holy shit. Trucks, you know, feel with the back, you know, you can still up in Idaho You could still ride in the back of the truck. So truck loads come, you know, three truck truck loads and cars come You know, I've got like two or three of my buddies are there and my dad's there and Um the kids start walking up and my dad walks out and you know the kid walks up and there's like bunch of people behind him My dad just walks out and he's like, okay, look, he's like kind of listed a shirt and he's like, good, I got a gun, so he's like, hey, any of you guys,

if you've got anyone jump sent, you're gonna get shot. Let it be a one on one fight and we're gonna go our separate ways after the fight. And that's exactly what happened. So literally me and this kid just got into a fight right in the middle of the street, boom, neighbors came out, watched, fucking did our fight, went our separate ways.

You know, that was it? Did they leave you alone after that? No, we kind of had some issues and some, you know, confrontations after that as well, you know, but that's the kind of person that my family was. Like even my mom is that way. It was always kind of that way. I was like, hey, if you have an issue with me,

I'll meet you at my house. We'll do it out when it's all said and done. It's done, okay, move on. So you had stuff happen you hear in San Jose, then you move over there, you had stuff happen you. Did this drive you and motivate you when you were wrestling and fighting to like, this is like were you driven by that?

Yeah, but at the time there was no MMA, so I didn't know what it was driven by, I just didn't wanna lose. And that was the thing, like being, you wanna ingrain your kids into being competitive. There's no fucking participation trophies, man. You either win or you don't. And if you're not first, you're last, right?

Ricky Bobby. So, but that's really what I feel with these kids. Like, you should ingrain in them that you want to be the best. Because if everyone is equal, then what's the point of fucking trying to excel? Do you remember like when you kind of got the H. I know you mentioned the when you started good into jitsu with your little actually have your little brother put you in a move.

But what about like fighting and actually like it's situations like that was there a time where you like I kind of like this. Yeah, I mean like just so you guys know I lost my very first fight. Like I went I showed up I pay 25 bucks to fight. You paid 25 dollars and went to this local gym like you know we took a group of guys and went to this local gym and we pay I pay 25 to fight. You paid $25 and went to this local gym. Like, you know, we took a group of guys and went to this local gym and we paid $25 to fight. And it was like, okay, it was like almost like a smoker, but it was a little more intense

because we were wearing MMA gloves, no head gear, like mouthpiece, like, you know, shingards and like that was it, man. Like, I was not even think I was wearing a cup at the time. You know, we went out there and we fought. You know, I lost that fight and I was like, man, maybe this isn't for me, you know, a socks and, you know, and then I was just training like on a regular basis with some guys

that I wrestled with in college and orthodaho college. And I got a call like on three days, four days notice and I was living in North Idaho and they called and the fight was done in Boise, which is in Southern Idaho. And they said, hey, we want you to fight this guy. And I'm like, all right, cool. So how much are you going to pay? You know, if you're not fight this guy. I'm like, all right, cool. So, how much are you gonna pay? You know, if you're not gonna pay, I'm not gonna go. So they're like, yeah, we'll fly you down,

put you in a hotel, give you a hundred fifty bucks, I'm like, fuck it. So I went down, I needed the money, I was, can broke. You know, I mean, sounds like, all right, screw it. So I went down, fought, got a knockout in like two minutes. Literally within like three weeks, hey, we got this other guy. So they wanted to get me beat.

You know, but they kept calling, and they kept paying, and I said, okay, well this time I want 300. And they're like, all right, fine. So then I went from being the combing event last time on three days notice, now I'm the main event. Boom, six second knockout head kick. Cause I fought a wrestler, I knew he knew he was a wrestler,

all he wanted to do was wrestling. Boom, knocked him out, done the old ran around, like God done after that, I was like, you know, knocked him out, done the O'Ran around. God done after that, I was like, you know what, maybe there's something here. We might have something. So I trained and trained, and then I moved back down here to California

and sort of training with Bob Cook and Frank Shamrock and at AK and stuff, and I was like, you know, so we just kept doing it. I kept training and training every night. Worked from six to like four in the afternoon, get off work and follow out to and just drive all the way down here, you know, and just train until like 9.30 at night, work from six to like four in the afternoon, get off work and follow out to and just drive all the way down here, you know, and just train until like 9.30 at night, until the gym would close.

Yeah, I'd have to say, you know, I was a big fan of yours in the early days, you know, when I was really being to MMA and you were one of the first or one of the kind of original like true mixed martial artists, you know, in those days you had, you still had a lot of pure, you know, grapplers, pure strikers, and you know, who were kind of good at the other stuff, but you seemed to be good at a lot of it. You know, I would, you would knock people out or you would submit them, and you seemed to be good at all angles, and you said you trained with Frank, and Frank was probably the first. I think he was the first.

Yeah. So he was more of the first guy that was well-rounded, and when you're around people like that, and it makes it easier for you to realize that you need to was well-rounded, and when you're around people like that, and it makes it easier for you to realize that you need to be well-rounded. And I try to explain to people, I'm not good at any one thing. Like I'm not great at any one thing. I'm good at all of them.

You know, I'm good wrestler, I'm a good juditsu guy, I'm a good standup guy, but I'm not great at any of them. If I was to fight like a really good kickboxer, I'd fucking get mulled. You know, if I fought a really good juditsu guy, I'd fucking get just destroyed. You know, but if I fought a really good Olympic wrestler, I'd fucking get mauled. You know, if I fought a really good jujitsu, I'd fucking get just destroyed. You know, but if I fought a good, really good Olympic wrestler, I'd fucking get owned. You know what I mean?

But I'm really good at all of them. So when you say that, what's your thoughts on all the hype around McGregor and Mayweather that's been going on for quite some time? I think it's great. I honestly believe it. It's great. I feel that he should have left the UFC

out of the negotiations because it's not MMA. It's boxing. And under when he got his boxing license, it becomes under the Muhammad Ali Act. There's no reason for him to be for the UFC to be involved in the negotiations at all. Okay, like for him. But I mean, with him, I feel like he's kind of a loyal guy. You see the way he is with his camp, see the way his wife and things like that. He's taking time off right now to focus on his baby was born and things like that. I think that's a great thing for him.

But there was no reason he's bringing Dana along for the ride, but if Dana gets in the way, I don't think he'll have a problem saying, like get the fuck out of the way. But during that process, what's gonna happen though is that it could end up biting him in the ass because Dana's gonna want a little bit more than what people don't understand.

Like Dana's gonna want a bigger percentage of that. So I give an example is that couple of the guys that I know, I won't mention names cause I don't wanna throw them under cause they're still with the organization. But a couple of guys that I know, they had had a deal done with monster, energy drink. And the monster said, hey, we're gonna pay you $180,000

for the year, okay? And you're gonna fight two, three times a year. We're gonna pay you $180,000 for the year, okay? And you're gonna fight two, three times a year. We're gonna pay you $180,000 for the year. You rep our brand. We're gonna be, you know, one of your main sponsors. Okay, deal was pretty much done. UFC came and said, hey, that's our network of sponsors that we came, they went in and said, look,

we're gonna negotiate the deal for you. Literally like two weeks later, the deal came back, the fighter got $60,000 for the year. Fuck a third. Word the rest of the money go. What a fuck do you think it went? Yeah, right. You know what I mean?

So that's like, when you say, what are the positives and negatives of what's going on now? That's a negative. Because- You bet. Yeah, back in the day, we used to be able to negotiate those type of things. Sure, maybe they're sponsoring

Maybe they're sponsoring the UFC, but that doesn't mean that like we can't talk to them Like you know like that. What does that mean? Like when we bring our sponsors into the cage They have to fill out the paperwork. You have all their contacts every time I bring a new sponsor in the cage You get their contact information and I know you fucking hit them up, and you say, hey, well, you know, if you wanna sponsor the event, this and that, I know those things, that was part of the problem back when they were doing the sponsors, our sponsors had to pay the sponsor us,

even before the Reebok deal. So the way that happened was they were like, hey, we wanna see your book. So let's just say I had Reebok as a sponsor before they were working with the UFC. They would say, hey, we want to see your book. So let's just say I had Reebok as a sponsor before they were working with the UFC. They would say, hey, Reebok's going to sponsor you. Reebok had to fill out all this paperwork they sent it into them. They called Reebok and they, you have to see what call Reebok and say, hey, well, your

book say you made $1.2 million last year, you know? Well, we believe that it would have been less had your athlete not wore your stuff into our ring, into our cage. So we think we deserve 50,000 or 100,000, or whatever the percentage was if they were asking for your year revenue. Oh wow. How the fuck are you gonna get away with that?

So that's what they were doing. So companies, they're like a mob. Yeah, company stops sponsoring us because they're like, wow, I gotta pay, I gotta pay the UFC 50 to a hundred grand just to fucking talk to you just to pay you to pay you I got to pay you to pay you I got to pay them fucking 50 to a hundred grand to turn around and pay you five grand 10 grand hundred you know 20 grand whatever it is That's crazy man that was the negative at all and then at the end that they did that for a couple years

And at the end you turn around and slap Reebok on us and then fucking take away everything. So you got paid six, nine, whatever, million dollars for like a four year or six year deal with Reebok. And then return your paying the fucking athletes peanuts. Like guys like BJ Penn made fucking 40 grand. That's it. Dude, his deal with Ruka was fucking way better than that. I know Pat the owner of Ruka Okay, it's fucking always taking care of BJ. BJ and him are like fucking best buds You know what I mean like BJ was the first fighter ever like rep Ruka into the fucking cage I'm gonna be like hey, you know like this is my boy. It's my buddy's brand like I'm gonna do this for him You know what I mean like that that's just showing loyalty to where you came from when you can't do that anymore

It's garbage. It sounds like a can't, I mean, can it continue that way? I feel like it's, it'll fall off, you know, I mean, it'll, it'll, the wheels will fall off. But this is what, this is what I want, we give it an understanding of this, is that he looked at Fox deals about to come up for renewal. Okay, the Fox TV deal. It's about to come up for renewal. So what's going on is they sold it to WME, right? William Morrison or Taymond is really sold it to. Well, the guys that they rep are also like Tom Brady and guys at end. Also, I want to say Robert Kraft, the guy who owns the Patriots. So he's got the connection in with the NFL. So what I think they're going to

do is they're going to turn around and say like, hey, we have all these high-clouded guys that now own the UFC. We're going to re-ink another deal. So 4.4 billion is what they paid for the UFC. Now they're going to turn around and go to the Fox and say, kill this free ink. Soon as they re-ink the deal, they've made their money back. So they'll do another five-year, seven-year deal with Fox. Boom, their 4.4 million is already made back.

It doesn't matter what they do from on. They're like, fuck, we can care less about, this is a fucking promotion now. We've made our fucking money back, done deal. In the process they gave their money. Right, they can have shit fighters, hardly anybody watch. They don't give a fuck. Well then how much of the revenue

then is like pay per view and stuff? Like how does that work? So that each fighter is negotiated differently. So like some fighters will be like $2 per paper view buy, some fighters are $1 per paper view buy, and then it's negotiated based on like how many views. So over 250,000 views, you get paid a dollar. Over 500,000 views you get paid $2. So it depends on the fighter as well. Like Keynes contract will be different from DC's contract, and Luke's contract will be different from all three of theirs. You know, and like, Maya would be different than the rest.

So how important then is like a badass agent that goes in and actually becomes? Has nothing to do with being an agent though in the UFC. Because they, no, they don't, they don't, and they do, you can have an agent, but the problem is there's no negotiation with them. That was the biggest reason why these guys are fucking leaving.

They're like, there's no negotiation. When I walked in, like, let's just say this, when I walk into the UFC and I sit down, they say, okay, look, you're a top 10 guy. Well, this is the standard for top 10 guys because they make the market when it comes to their organization. I'm gonna pay you 60 and 63 and 63 and like, per fight, and then you're gonna go up, if you win,

you're gonna go up 66, 66, 68, 68, whatever, you know? So that's what you pay is gonna go up. But if you, the negotiation, there is no negotiation, that's what it is. If you don't fucking like it, go fight somewhere else. And they know it, they know it, because every kid growing up, their dream was to find the UFC and they're gonna hold that against you.

Wow. Not like, man, we're so excited to have you. They definitely have the power. Yeah, we're so excited to have you, fucking excited. Yeah, they're we're so excited to have you fucking I'm excited to get you in the cage. That's me fucking amazing They're like look more the fuck are we doing you a favor? You got to you got to think you got to think with Organizations like Bellator and stuff coming up and continuing to gain traction and grow that sooner or later It's got to get somewhat competitive. I know UFC, they want to be the NFL of fighting

and they probably look at everybody else as like Canadian League or something like that, but it's looking like, it's coming around. I think if Jocke Ray and Musashi leave, there's that, but then you also have, you know, like this whole buyout, what happened was the one of the first things they did, they got rid of Matt Hughes and Chuck Lidell because they were on the payroll and so they got rid of that Hughes and Chuck Lidell because they were on the payroll.

And so they got rid of them. That put a bad taste in everyone's mouth. You know, and I know a lot of employees that were working for them for years, like, facing from the time the, the for Tidaz did bought the company. They're no longer with them. Yeah, I feel like they would just buy them.

You know what I mean? Like, if you're an organization, you're coming up because that's what they've done so far. So just buy the organization and continue their reign. They got to be careful because they were in it. They were in. I don't know if they still are. I got to actually look it up.

But they were in a class action lawsuit against being like based on a monopoly. And then Bellator came around and then Risen started in Japan. One FC is over in China. But they were saying, oh no, we're not, we're not a monopoly because for a moment there after they bought strike force, it was like we bought all of our competition. Like what about Belator? We're like dude, fucking Belator until Koby got there

was fucking non-existent. No idea who was fighting, and even though who the fuck their champions were, no one cared about them. You know, they were on every Friday. Did you ever fucking stay home on a Friday and watch them? I've sure the fuck didn't, and I'm a fighter. I'm like, I cared to see what these guys are doing.

You know, so it really depends on what the market provided, but at the time, Belator didn't provide any type of market to anybody, it was horrible. Well, what's your prediction then? Do you see that happening? Do you see it becoming more competitive? Do you see UFC just kind of continuing to muscle people? Like, I feel like ever since that Reebok deal happened,

you're starting to hear a lot more backlash from it. What's your prediction? Well, I think the lustre of the Reebok deal has gone away. Fighters now, I've just accepted the fact that they're gonna make shit when it comes to sponsors, which is unfortunate. But fighters will always do that. You wanna know why?

Cause they came from a background like mine where they just don't have money. Wow. That's right. It's so hard. It's so hard for. Yeah, cause you they came from a background like mine where they just don't have money. Wow like that's why it's so hard It's so hard for you're pulling you're pulling from a pool of people who like nobody like you rarely will you see someone who comes from like Super wealthy upbringing and kind of has everything done for them or they're like yeah, I want to fight professionally Usually doesn't happen that are there any top fighters like that. I actually don't are there happen that are there any top fighters like that I actually don't are there so what was like that was like that stays North

country like that okay but you said top fighter so I don't want to just be just but BJ pen so BJ's rare too because he was actually a brother he was a fighter like yeah why is this fighting like this you know yeah but the other thing too as well as like his brothers were all very active in jiu jitsu you know so BJ was the first American black belt to ever one words yeah so and then his brothers though, were all really good.

Like his brother was a blue belt. I won his brother's blue belt. He won Worlds. His brother JD was fucking Jeff. His brother JD was actually probably the most, the most fighter out of all of them. Really? And he had a real bad neck injury.

So he just couldn't get to a whole, get the whole camping actually fight. But man, that guy was a fucking savage on the floor. Insane then. Yeah, fight sports in general have that history, I even boxing, you know, has that history where he sees fighters coming in. You need that grit, dude, and it's,

I'm sorry, the who chooses to fight, you know, grown up and you've had it a lot of things handed to you. Even if you got great parents, I'd feel like that's, it's tough to install that grit that you need, you know? Well, these guys are pulling from a market of guys that just, they don't have anything and the ones that don't have anything,

they're gonna do whatever it is. Let me give you an example. So I don't know the well-offness of like clay guida, okay? But when he, when him and I had fought, there was a couple deals where I was talking with some sponsors for them to sponsor me. And when they were sponsoring, they said, yeah, well look, we're gonna sponsor Clay as well.

They're like, look, we're all we're doing for him is closing a banner. I'm like, fuck no, I fought in the UFC, I fought in pride. No fucking way, I'm only letting you give me clothes and banner. I don't know, fucking clothes. You pay me enough, I'll buy my own damn clothes. You know what I mean?

So that wasn't me. But that's the thing, you're pulling from guys that like, they really don't have much. So when they don't have much, they'll do whatever it takes to get what they're foot in the door. You know, so like sure, you wanna give me clothes, you wanna give me supplements, you wanna give me a year of something,

I'm like, I don't do that, I'm by my own fucking supplements. You know, you pay me enough money, I'll buy my own shit. You know what I mean? That's what fighters don't seem to understand. They'll low ball stuff to get it done because they don't have the money at the time. So they're like, what you're gonna make my banner? Well, a banner costs like 600 bucks to make.

You know, if you go to a print shop, it costs like 600 bucks to make. So it's like unfortunate that these kids, they're like, I don't have the money to make the banner, but I can't make money if I don't have a banner. So what do I do? You know, so you have this company making banner for you, you know, you get supplements from them, you get supplements from whatever it is to get you through your next camp because

you can't afford a buy supplements because they didn't fucking pay you. You know, instead you should have taken the money. It's very similar. I don't know how familiar you are with the whole bodybuilding, men's physique, bikini world right now that's exploding, right? Because I was a diehard fan of USC and I watched that whole growth of that, the transition with Reebok. And then I was somebody who got into bodybuilding or mince physique and got up to the professional level

and then realized like holy shit, it's very, very similar. And you have these big companies, they come in and they pray on all of them. And they know they have all this leverage that this kid just wants to be on a cover of a magazine so fucking bad and just wants to say he's sponsored so bad. Like they think it's like such a big deal just to say your sponsor because they and put

it in your bio here. Yeah. And the sponsorships to get advantages. So they give these kids like some t-shirts in like 20% commission on what they sound. It's like, oh my god, the markup on supplements like 400% as it is. So you're giving them like a percentage to hustle their supplements in some free shirts. And it's just, it's turning into this culture where all these kids are trying so hard to get involved.

And then they get in it and they don't realize, like, oh shit, just getting here doesn't make me a millionaire or make me rich forever. It's the rules of supply and demand always. It's just what they are. And you know, you blew my mind right now when you said, they're pulling from these kids who grew up with nothing who this is their opportunity This is their one opportunity to

succeed at life or to do something for themselves because they don't have any other opportunities So you have a supply a large supply of these kids who are like all fucking do anything and It's just the way it is if only they knew right and right? Yeah, and you're not even, see, like, I feel that the bikini stuff or the, whatever, the body, that's more of an American-based thing. I'm sure I'm sure that it's worldwide, but I'm saying that it's more of a, you're pulling from fighters, it's worldwide.

You're taking guys from Sweden, guys from, the Philippines, Germany, and Philippines, you know, China everywhere, because they fucking don't have anywhere, anything. You're pulling from guys that literally some of them live in thorough countries, you know, but all they wanna do is train and be an athlete, sure they want free shirts,

sure they want supplements, they're like, they don't have no fucking clue how to use the supplements or what they're doing. You know, like, part of what I brought in, Dan Lee, to come in and live with me, he's like, okay, look, I was like, when are you taking this, when are you taking this, when are you taking this, when are you taking this, when are you, I told him all this stuff I was telling him what I was taking.

And what time is it's like, okay, well, look, you can't take this during this time because you're actually, it's counteracting what you're trying to do. Now you give that to someone who has no fucking clue that is no education on any of it. And I've been doing this my whole life. And I thought this was the way it was supposed to be done. And he's like, comes in and sits me down and goes, this isn't right, and you're actually hurting yourself when you actually drink this before the workout. Then you're hurting yourself when you drink this

or eat this right after your workout. You should be putting more of this in your body. And I'm thinking to myself, these young kids, they don't have a fucking chance. They don't have, people that just, they come from, whether they can't, I'm not gonna say ghetto, but they're coming from like a family that's just not supportive yet hard times, exactly hard times.

So they're coming from an area that's hard when they have hard times and they have no idea. They're probably in their household, there was never supplements, protein on the counter. Well, fighters forever, even when you go back to boxing, like they're just notorious for, you know, doing their career and fighting, and then afterwards just being're just notorious for, you know, doing their career and fighting, and then afterwards, just being like, broke or bankrupt.

You know, like the old, like the old bodybuilder, excuse me, not bodybuilder, the old boxer who owns the bar, and that's what he does now. He used to be a champion, but now he just owns a bar, and he doesn't make any money, because they don't understand that whole process. Like, you know, that might be some good advice, you know.

God, who's the one, who's the boxer that quit and said no mocks? I don't know. No, that was, yeah, in the middle of his fight. Yeah, in the middle of his fight. I can't, oh man. It's twice now you did a name that I said. Yeah, yeah, I watched it.

I look it up. So he's like, he made millions of dollars. He turns around and he goes home and he basically put all that money back into his country and people just took it from him, took it from him. I mean, he's a legend there in his country. But it's a Roberto Duran. Roberto Duran.

So Duran. So he's made all this millions of dollars. He put it all back into trying to help people that were in need and giving money to the government, giving money to people that were helping. Now he's broke, fucking dead broke literally, but he's like a fucking huge celebrity, super star over there,

so he doesn't really pay for anything, but he lives in like a total shit hole, but he still lives in his original town, so he lives at home. I wonder if he made any money off the netflix, by the way, that's a great netflix documentary, you haven't seen it, Roberto de Rance. I'll check it out, it's bad. It's really good. It's really, really good. And I wonder, now that way, that's a great Netflix documentary. You haven't seen it, Roberto de Rance. I'll check it out. It's bad.

It's really good. And I wonder now that you say that, if he even made any money off of that or not. I saw the, I think I saw the true, that wasn't true. I was sorry. Like a 30 for 30 or something on it. Maybe there's a shorter version of the documentary. I'm trying to think with the documentary. It's not named after him.

It's called, I'll look it up. I'll put it in the show notes for those you guys that are listening right now. So it was awesome, it was a great documentary. I watched it maybe just a month ago, which is why it was surprised I couldn't fucking think of the name when you said that. I should've known that.

Now do you do things on the side business for yourself? What do you involve them besides fighting, or is it connected through fighting? It's kind of all connected through fighting, but there's a couple of other things that I do. You know, right now, I'm just starting a podcast as well We started all Sammy and the punk so we do it. We do it. It's I think we're we just filmed number 18 on Tuesday Okay, so we we try to do one a week just for right now to get our feet wet

We've done a couple times where we've done twice a week depending on the fight So I interviewed like could be a number gum with off of interviewed, you know DC in these guys So I do a couple things, Shane Faisen, who does fight tips and I've done some other stuff, you know, with Dan Leath, Law Carton Leath, the nutritionist who helped me in DC in those guys. So anyways, yeah, I do that. It's called Sam and the Pong on YouTube and iTunes.

But then I also do my own a gym here in San Jose. And I do strictly for mom and pops. I'm not looking for fighters. I don't want fighters in the gym. Like it's actually kind of bad for business. And yeah, because people come in, they get intimidated. You know, and the reason why I know this is because years we used to train during a class at AK, we would, all the fighters would come in. There'd be 11 o'clock class and we would train. It was like 11 30 class or a new class. We would train the same time some of those students were in there.

When you got fighters in there, beating each other up and yelling and custening each other, fuck you, kick your fucking ass. You know, I'm like, you're, cause we get heated, man. You're some young kid coming in here for, cause you're like, I don't know if I'm ready for this. Barring gets, can heated, you know?

Like there's times we throw the gloves off and we're like, let's go! You know, it's, it's, it's for real, man. Something, there's times we throw the gloves off and we're like let's go You know, it's it's it's for real man So I mean there's times I've literally like with Mike Kyle Paul one until I've thrown the gloves off and just try throwing down with them Seriously, I were kicking our shingards off my fucking You know, and it's so it's for real, but I mean like we realized then that the class used to be full at a K at noon And then it went from like 25 people to like six So Javier the owner of AK is like yeah, we're gonna move the fighting around

We're gonna switch that class the fighter trains gonna be at this time and you know And then I realized that it was just wasn't good for business I bet there's a lot of people that don't think about that. I will I've never even put that thing about in a gym Dude is it freaking a gym, dude, is it freaking a hardcore maniac? Like power lifters and bodybuilders and shit is that good necessarily for the average person? No, you're right.

Yeah, because that's part of why a lot of people don't even like gyms like golds, right? It definitely appeals to a certain demographic of people that, which is not your average, Jaina Joe, trying to lose 30 pounds of fat. Think about all the YouTube videos that have gone viral, right? About people making fun of the people that... Oh, you know, it's because it makes people uncomfortable.

It makes people uncomfortable and makes people feel like, man, the guy's so good. Dude, in the gym, it just created a plan of fitness. Yeah, exactly. In the gym business, if you, they're the worst customers, I'll tell you why, because they use your gym like crazy.

So they put a shit ton of wear and tear on your equipment. They pay their membership fee religiously, but it's cheap because the whole model is designed around getting people to not show up. And then they're loud as hell and they're big and muscular and intimidating. And so it's like, you don't want those people. If you're gonna have that kind of model,

otherwise you charge a lot of money, and then you have fewer members and whatever. They're fighters of there every day? They never try to pay so like they don't pay their membership religiously because they don't have money So they don't pay so then they're always trying to get something for free like oh, I didn't bring my gloves Or I don't have a mouthpiece. Can I borrow some is there any loners like you know like I literally we've had a fight It won't fight her came in from another from another state He's like I didn had him through my mouth.

Is you guys gonna need loaner mouth pieces? I'm like, loaner mouth. Yeah, we got one already pre-move. There's somebody else's teeth. You wanna try that one on? See if it fits. You know? Oh man.

So I own a gym here in San Jose called Knox Marshall or something fitness. And what I do is I work with like kid athletes as well as adults. But it's mainly like, right before I came today, I was working with a little girl who's on a soccer like a traveling team for soccer. So I do sports and agility for them, things like that.

For the younger kids, I try not for myself, I try not to do personal training with adults because I feel like the dedication's not there as much as a kid, it's an athlete who really wants it. You know, the other thing too is I feel like I've had enough experience in life in general how to try and get the most out of a kid athlete. And it seems like it works. Like I have a really good Jiu Jitsu program for kids

and it's pretty big and like. That's awesome, where you guys look at it? To Royal Pro and Brannum, right there, there's like a Weeners' Sitzel right there in the park. Holy shit, dude, you're right by me. Yeah, so I'm right there on Pro and Brannum. I'm bringing my kid by. Now you go. Oh, that's excellent. So I'm right there on the corner. Holy shit. Do you write by me? Yeah, so I'm right there on Pro Ambring my kid by there you go. Oh, that's excellent

So I'm right there on the corner. It used to be like an old game. You think I've been there for about three years and It's been great, man. I'm right next to fire station 13. I know exactly my boys man the boys over there always looking out for me So no, it's been great man like how long have you guys been open three years? Oh wow and it's going good It's going well like we had the first year was fucking was rough man. It was rough, it was rough. So it's just trying to get, I didn't realize how hard it was to have employees. Man, it's so rough.

You gotta find the right vibe and the right fit. I've got a great group of people now that are there and it's like I can trust them and rely on them. And you know, and we got through the hard times together in the beginning, like now we got the ones that weren't meant to be are gone. The ones that are here, they're here, it seems like they're here to stay. And I really love that.

Excellent. I wanna hear about who's like the toughest fight or the toughest fighter you've ever had to fight? Okay, so there's a couple things. So there's one person that we talked about, when did you know? Yeah. The one fight was against Hermes Franca.

I had one, that was my second UFC fight. I had one of the first two rounds. In the third round, the very beginning, all I had to do was just stick and stay away. And he threw a kick against the cage, and I caught the kick. And the guy was known for power. He had just beat Carl Unoel, the fight before. He had some big wins.

He beat Hermann, he beat Eves Edwards. And I caught the kick and he had some power. So he just threw like a loopy punch, caught me right on the button and dropped me. And he beat the shit out of me for about three and a half minutes. Like literally, there was a couple of times where the ref was gonna jump in, didn't jump in.

And anyways, so I beat him the first two rounds. Literally, there was a couple of times where the ref was gonna jump in, didn't jump in, and, you know, anyways. So he, I beat him the first two rounds. The third round, for three and a half minutes, he kicked the shit out of me. Like, to the point where I look like fucking elephant man afterwards. But, the last minute of the fight, he'd gas himself trying to finish me, so I was able to get my bearings back about me and finish the fight harder than he did, which I felt made it a 10, a 10 and 9 round because now they're trying to make you 10 and 8 rounds more, more prevalent, like they're gonna make them happen more often, but back then they didn't. So I survived that round and I ended up winning a split decision, which was amazing for me. But that was the fight that I'm gonna tell you right now, that was the fight that I knew I was a fighter. That was the one fight where I looked down

in my fucking said dude, there's no fucking way I'm losing this fight. I always wondered, because honestly as a kid growing up, I always wanted, it's one thing to beat somebody up on the street, okay? Because you're fighting someone that has no fucking experience. They're probably drunk too, you know? So it's one thing to beat those guys up, you know,

and think that you're the man, but you're not the fucking man, okay? So when I got into a fight against somebody that was really good, it was a jitsu black belt, fucking subdeerver, but like super entertaining, heavy hands, you know, and experienced, fought the best guys. We were considered one, two, and three, me, him, and he said, words at the time in the world. And so when I'm fighting him and he drops me and I come back and I finished around harder than him in my mind, I'm thinking to myself, you were made out for this. This is what it's about.

Like, when I see these other guys that are, and just so we're clear, you know how much I made for that fight, $8,000. Oh, okay. I made $4,000 and $4,000. So how'd I have lost or it'd been a draw? I would've made four grand. But at the time, for you and the ship beat,

how do you for three minutes But to me to me that was the fuck that was amazing man. No money at the time Like my rent I was living in there's another story, but I was living in a porn warehouse. Oh Where we missed this yeah, wait wait wait wait what do you mean to porn? Where I was living in a warehouse were the guy that owned the world's dominion. Yeah, exactly. He used to sell, he used to sell, he used to buy and sell and trade porn from this warehouse. So he would buy like old 60, 70, 80s porn magazines, videos, DVDs, cassettes, everything.

And he would buy and sell them on eBay. So he'd pick up like the old Nina Hartley DVD. And he'd hold on to it for a year. And he'd turn around and sell it again for like triple the money that you bought it for Holy shit. But it was like crates and crates of stacked porn inside the this warehouse and let's supply and let's supply And yes Yeah, your friends must have loved you anytime I need to cop a jerk brides walk downstairs

Fucking pulled the helmet off real quick and came back just walk downstairs, fucking pulled the helmet off for a quick and came back. That was the greatest ever. Oh my God, hands on it. I think you have to be, up until this moment, I thought Sal was the most versed in porn. Yeah. I'm sure you're not heartily.

I'm like, you probably go all the way back to the 20s. Yeah, it's cool, baby. It's cool. I gotta go back. Oh my God. I used to live in this porn warehouse. I paid $150 a month to live in this warehouse. So when I made four grand, I was like, man, I could pay my rent for two, three years easily.

I ain't fucking ever moving out of this corner house. But it was the funniest thing ever. But at the time I only made four grand, but that was the fight though that made me feel like I was a fighter. Yeah. And then later on in my career, just a couple years ago, when I fought Tony Ferguson, that was another fight. You see these guys, I got cut up real bad in the fight.

I mean, I had like fucking Mercedes signs on my head, you know, from different cuts. You know, and I have a nasty cut here on my head here. And I literally got stitched up in the back and it took probably about two hours for him to stitch me all the way up. Oh wow. Yeah, it was nasty blood coming down my face. Like I just, I looked like I just, I was like I jumped in fucking blood, just all red.

You know, the whole fight, but there was never a moment in that fight that I was like fucking just give up. Never. You know. So that's gotta feel good. No, and that's the thing is, you, I don't know, like if you give away participation trophies,

I'm gonna go back on this, is because then the kid doesn't feel the need to go on. He can just give up and then move on to the next thing, because yes, next time I'm gonna get another trophy. And I feel bad for the kids that don't ever get to the point where they really earn the first, second and third place. But I feel that it's important for kids growing up, if you're condoning mediocrity,

then they're never gonna excel at anything else they wanna do. Well, it doesn't translate into real fucking life. You ever gone to a job where they fuck you? Are you get paid the same as the guy that's outperforming you? Yeah, because you should. No, it doesn't work that way.

It's not real life. Yeah, I just, everyone's in this feel good life. You know, I don't, I feel like, like you said, life's work that way. It's not real life. Yeah, I just everyone's in this feel good life. You know, I don't, I feel like like you said life's not that way. You know, but it's sad to see because I think this is what's developing in our younger generation. I think and if you want to develop, or if you want the strength of a strong country, you need to develop the younger generation right now. I feel like the ones that are already in college, kind of a lost cause already. They're done. You got to start moving on to the kids that are already in college, kind of a lost cause already, they're done. You gotta start moving on to the kids

that are literally like in elementary school, intermediate school, you can still save them in high school, I think. You know, you get into that point where you can still say them, like, hey, let's be the best, let's be the best at everything we do. I'm all for the do what you wanna do, as long as you love it. If you wanna be broke, be broke,

as long as you're doing what you love. I'm all for that. Okay. But then don't do it. You love and be broke and then turn on complain that you think your college should be paid for or you should get, you know, everything for free. Everything for free. That to me is not, there's not the same thing. Okay.

You can't say I want to be broke and do what I love, but then want someone else to take care of you while you do what you love. It doesn't work that way. Actually, I had an argument with someone about that the other day where they were just, we were talking about college and they were saying how, you know, and I was explaining to them like, well, okay, here's how, you know,

first of all, it's never free, somebody's paying for it. So whether it's taxed or whether you pay for it yourself, but they were talking about how, you know, it's not fair that someone with like liberal arts degree, you know, it's not going to make as much as someone with an engineering degree or whatever. And I'm like, what do you mean? It's not fair. Like, that's arts degree, you know, is not gonna make as much as someone with an engineering degree or whatever, and I'm like, what do you mean, it's not fair? Like, that's just the way it is.

Where's the demand for that? Yeah, and if you're gonna, you know, try and get alone to go to school, like it only makes sense that the bank should tell you, hey, look, I know the degree you're gonna get, you're not gonna be able to pay us back, so we can't give you the money for that, because you're getting a degree in something

that's not gonna make you any money. That's just the way life works. Look, life is a choice to be successful, to not be successful. If you decide you don't wanna be successful, that's your problem. You chose liberal arts. I didn't fucking choose it for you.

Your parents didn't choose it for you. You chose it, which means you obviously were either one of two things. You really care for liberal arts, or you were just looking to get a fucking degree and move on with life. So one of the two things happened, right? Like you were just looking for the quick degree, the easiest degree, you could get your parents off your back and move on with life thinking you're going to get paid outside of

that. Now that I got a degree, but what is it? Right. Like at one point, I don't know where this happened, but we started telling people like, you know, it's all about just finding your purpose and what you love. And if you find your purpose and what you love, that's all that matters. So then you have this generation that's doing that. But then when they find out what their purpose and what they love to do, doesn't pay a lot of money, they get pissed off. And they think, well, I should be able to get paid

that as much as that guy because he fights and he found his purpose. I don't desire to do that. I desire to teach and do this, so why don't we get paid equally? But then it's time to desire anymore though. Right. Like if it's not something you love then, if you're not okay with getting paid peanuts, you're not doing it for love anymore. I literally paid 25 bucks to fight. My first fight. Because I fucking loved fighting and training. It's great. I love. Like the one thing I'm gonna miss the most when I retire

is beating that fucking locker room with the guys. Being out on the mat with the guys, training with those guys, the shit talking, like the shit we're doing right now. This is what I'm gonna miss the most, man. Like, I'm sure like when you guys were to wrap this up and be like, man, fuck, what are we gonna do now? Like you're gonna miss this, you're gonna miss all the shit you guys are going through.

Well, the good thing about what we do is we just talk. So I can do this for you. No, bro, you're right, you guys can do it forever, but let's just say, hey, if you just not do another show or like someone's got, you're right. We talk about this all the time. We talk about it all the time and realizing that.

And if you're truly passionate about it, then it isn't about the money, it isn't about all those things. You said it best right there, you paid to do your fight. And you know what, something like a liberal, and I know we're picking on liberal arts right now, but I just randomly picked it, but like my sister got a degree in anthropology.

A corn culture. Well, no, my sister got a degree in anthropology, for example, and she's like, there's not much I can do with that besides be a professor, so I have to go get the PhD or work in a museum or there's not much I can do with it. So she actually went and started learning some of the stuff, but that's just the reality, like you said,

like if you really love it, then just do it. But understand that some things are gonna pay more than others, and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. Just do what you love and be okay with it. What people don't understand is that doing what you love means extra hustle, because like I love training kids, but I also don't wanna have to go out there and hustle to get kids to come to my camps

or get kids to come to my gym. I feel like, oh, I've worked enough to be a fighter, I want the people just to come to me. Doesn't work that way, man. As much as I would love that to happen, I've got a market on social media, I've got a market in Google. I've got to do these things.

Otherwise, no one's gonna ever hear about people. You have to hustle. You've got to put the work in. I've got to put door flyers on. You've got to do it. Man, you've got to walk around the neighborhoods that you're in and be like, hey, you don't give you a free pass for the day

or two pass for the day, whatever it is. You've got to be that guy walking because if you hire some kid to do it, he's going to take all those flyers, you spent $1,000 on throwing the trash and collect his, oh, it took me three hours to drop all those and collect his $100, you know. That shit, I hate that shit.

You know what I mean? So, you gotta hustle. If you wanna do what you love and you want people to recognize you for doing what you love, you need the hustle doing it. Absolutely. What is it, what is it, now what is it moving forward?

What does it look like for you? You know, um, I don't know We'll see we'll see what happens realistically like moving forward. We'll see what happens. Um, how long do you plan on fighting for? I don't know if I'm gonna fight again. That's up in the air I'm not making any decisions like under you know Emotional circumstances. I want to make sure that I take my time to really think about the other thing as well as like as far as me fighting again I Thought already wants to share if I fight again. I mean realistically a whole five paycheck goes to taxes So what's the point? You know you make a certain amount of money and then I'm gonna pay basically if I fight another one

I put my body through a whole camp I fight again. I pay that almost that whole check goes to taxes Now, what do you why do you that? Is that because you've established yourself in a business for yourself with a school and you're making a living off of that? And then basically the amount of money you would make off of a purse is- Well, when you make a- Just put you in a new bracket.

Yeah, when you put you in a new bracket, you make a certain amount pretty much like three quarters of it. Well, I try to bring it down for athletes, right? I feel like athletes should have a different tax bracket. They should have a different tax, the way their taxes are done, because look, let's just say, I'm, of course, I'm biased because I'm an athlete.

But if you take what I make, and then I pay, let's just say I pay 38.6%, or 38.8% or whatever, in taxes, right? Then I give 20% to my agent, 20% to my trainers. What am I left with? Wow. So what, yeah, exactly, exactly nothing. Crickets. You know, it's crickets, yeah, exactly nothing. Crickets.

You know, it's crickets, yeah, exactly. So that's what people don't seem understand. And I make all this money, right? And you make all this money. You make so much money. Yeah, but you got to pay your taxes, man. Like, you know, like not just taxes, but I got to pay my agent.

I got to pay my trainers. I got to pay my coaches. Yeah, you got to make smart businesses. You got, yeah, you got to make smart businesses. So, and what I try to tell people is like, look, if they have the money left over, they're gonna turn, like for me, I would have probably opened another gym.

I would have hired more people. If I had more money than I could do things with someone who, like myself, like for me anyways, I can't speak for all athletes, but for someone like me, I wanna open more gyms, more businesses, I wanna do more things, start a podcast, but things like this cost money, you guys know. You guys built this up

This is amazing. I walked in the road gosh damn, you know, there's a green screen right here You guys can see this shit is pretty though But you guys understand what I mean right like for sure you you've got to you if I had more money to Do things with I would do more I feel like I would do more good. You know, you'd have more camps for kids during the summer, I would build more programs for kids. I'd be able to give a little bit more at my gym, like, hey, you know, this parent has three kids here,

instead of charging them 150 a kid, I'll charge you like 89 a kid, you know? Like, and then you cut them, whatever my cost is, I like ease, you know, I give you whatever it is my cost on my keys, you know, like give you whatever it is my cost on my keys. You know, like instead of charging them more for the markup, one thing is it's hard for parents who have multiple kids to put them all in sports.

So expensive. Super expensive. Super expensive, right? So I think it's up to the athletes that have been there and done that and been in a place that we've been is to try and help give back and give back in the way that you can by just your donating your time, you know, giving your time to your community.

It's very cool that you have perspective like that because, you know, even you talking about making more money, you translate that in the ability for me to give more, you know. Well, look, I don't make it to, I make good money, but like when I, I was in this juvenile hall here in San Jose when I was a kid, you know, I got in a fight at school at middle school and I got put in that juvenile hall.

So now what I do is randomly, every say once every year, once every six months, whenever I can, one of my friends is one of the sheriffs that are the worst, he walks me in and I just walk around in the pods and talk to the kids. Really? Yeah, I'll take my world title about with me too,

and I'll be like, hey, dude, I grew up, and when I tell the kids that I grew up on the east out of San Jose. They're like in shock They're like no way to fuck out here, you know, and sometimes I'll bring like a highlight video or whatever me fighting like here Walking out in a arena filled with 20,000 people. I find Japan 43,000 people Fucking insane right? I got New Year's Eve in Japan, you know000 people, 52,000 or whatever, and New Year's even Japan. I walk out in this crowd's fucking North. I'm just like looking around. I mean, like I was in all myself. You know what I mean? It's crazy. But you think about you tell a kid that's in juvenile hall who just feels like

this is where my life's going to be. And you show them a video like that. So I grew up on the same streets you did. You know, and they're like, Oh, well, you had this, you know, I'm like, no, I didn't have any of that. I just did it. I just literally got rid of all my other friends. I didn't get rid of them. They weeded themselves out when I just kept going

to the gym every day and training and they were no longer around. They just thought they lost my number. Bro, you lived in a porn warehouse. Yeah. If that's not closing enough, right? I mean, I'm sold right there. This whole conversation, that's the one thing he's gonna leave. That's not closing enough, right? I mean, I'm sold right there. This whole conversation, that's the one thing he's going to do.

That's the one. For the fucker. Pay his first five and he lived in a foreign warehouse for 150. He can't get out of his head now. I fuck you, you can do it, man. Because you could recycle enough cans to pay for that. You know what I'm saying? That's fucking great.

Well, good deal, man. It's been good talking to you, brother. Yeah, for sure. Thank you very much. Listen, mindpumpmedia.com, go there, sign up. It's free, 30 days of coaching, still free. You can also find us on Instagram at MindPumpmedia. You can find me at MindPump Sal, Justin's at MindPump Justin, and Adam is at MindPump Adam.

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