Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 514: Girls Gone WOD Podast

Episode Date: May 25, 2017

Look who stopped by the Mind Pump Media Studio... Joy Parrish and Claire Koch of the Girls Gone WOD Podcast! In this episode Sal, Adam and Justin speak to Joy and Claire about a variety of topics including CrossFit, Healthy Relationships with Exercise and Food, Adam's childhood and more. It also includes a closing duet with Justin & Claire! Check out the Girls Gone WOD Podcast on iTunes and other popular podcasting apps and at www.girlsgonewodpodcast.com. You can also find them on Instagram @girlsgonewodpodcast Get our newest program, Kettlebells 4 Aesthetics (KB4A), which provides full expert workout programming to sculpt and shape your body using kettlebells. Only $7 at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Got a beard? Condition your beard with Big Top Beard Company’s natural oils and organic essential oil blends to make it not only feel great but smell amazing! Get Big Top Beard Company products at www.bigtopbeardcompany.com, code "mindpump" for 33% off. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

Today in the podcast, we actually talk a lot about the 30 days of coaching. And, you know, if you're just coming over to our podcast or just started listening to us in the first, maybe month or two, and there's over 500 episodes. They can be pretty overwhelming for somebody that wants all the good information there. So what we have done here is we have taken all the really solid information about nutrition and working out and muscle imbalances and gut microbiome. You name it, we get all the stuff that we would put together if we were coaching someone day by day.

And we, it's the 30 days of coaching and my thumb gave to me. That's right. Every fucking thing you need. And what Doug has done is he's actually timestamped where we talk about that topic. So each day there's a new topic and the topic is timestamped and all the podcast episodes where we talk in depth about that

plus it includes any studies to back up any of the information that we talk about during these podcasts. It's if you're embarking on a fitness journey or if you're listening to our podcast It's free. You're no burger. Well if you you know you are a lot of people will listen to our podcast and we get messages all Time and they're like oh my god you guys are saying a lot of stuff that's counter to what I thought was true in fitness for example You know you don't need to eat small meals throughout the day to burn more fat or just all the myths and baloney that's out there. We talk about that in detail in the 30s of coaching, we provide you with great information and we provide you with links to studies where if you're a science-minded individual, you can actually click on those links

and read the study yourself so you can see how they came to our conclusions. And it's free and it's gonna keep getting better. So all you gotta do is go to mindpumpmedia.com, you opt in and you'll get it all, I think the first day now, right? We don't even wait, you don't have to get it every single day for 30 days,

now you get it all right away. Right away. So you can get it. So there you go. Mindpumpmedia.com for 30 days now you get it all right away. Right away. So you can kind of, so there you go. MindPumpMedia.com, 30 days of coaching. We love you. It's everything you need right there. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind,

there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Tell me the dance. Oh, what? Do you remember that? Yeah, do you remember the song? You do?

Ducktails, woo, then in there, and there. I don't know the words, but. Ducktails, woo. You know why that was one of the most misleading cartoons of all fucking time? Did the danger bounce behind you? Didn't that stranger have to find you? You know why that was one of the most misleading cartoons of all fucking time Wow Behind you then stranger how to find you what the dirt just grab up to the duck

Tess well, how you do you do know the whole song yeah, I knew that part you know what it was of all the cartoons I can think about one of the most Just horror misinforming cartoons I can think of hmm If you had a vault with a gold coins, pile of gold coins and you jumped off a diving board, head first into it, you would die. You would die. No, you would, you would die. Okay, let's get a bunch of gold coins

and we'll throw a, crack your skull. We'll throw a duck at them. It's the other duck does. I'm jumping into the paper money. You know, I would do that. Even that, even if it was a huge vault of just stacked paper money, it would be tempting for you not to do it to dive in it. Oh, yeah. Just paper. No, if it was old, it would be fine. How much for that? If it was stacked like 100 or like $10,000 stacks, they come

in the big break that face. Yeah, that wouldn't work, but if it was open, you'd have to fluff it. Yeah, you could do it. You could do it. Like a pillow. You could do it. It'd be like leaves, leaf pile. Yeah, it would be a leaf, you could do it. You could run and jump in it.

You'd have to like loosely like stack them in there. Well, I have to do this. But coins you'd break your face. You know, it would be so rich we can do that. Yeah, you know, that's why they never got sued. Uh-huh. Because if it was something that kids actually had and tried, they would got sued by now,

but because kids don't have a bold, gold coins. Yeah. Because don't tell me, there was Richie Rich, he did the same shit. Did he dive in the gold coins? I'm pretty sure he surfed it or something. Be honest now.

Be honest. Let's say you were a kid watching that and you saw Scrooge McDuck diving in the coins and you just so happen to have a vault of gold coins. Right. Tell me honestly, would you not have jumped into the gold coins and broke your teeth? Well, I would have cannonballed first.

Yeah. They're a pro-crasse. Yeah. They're a pro-cratale male. I've been smart enough not to dive head for them. I've been shift gold coins for the last two weeks. Oh my goodness. Hey, great.

What a great podcast. Oh my goodness. Hey, great. What a great podcast. Oh my goodness. I have to say, I was a little nervous actually. I really, really liked the girls. I do. From the Girls Gone Wad podcast. I did. I had it.

I had it. I had it. I had it. So they contacted us a long time ago. Actually Joy was listening to Mind Pump during the early days. And she lived up to her name. Yeah, and she contacted us a long time ago and told us she liked our show and then a little later she told us that we were getting a little too negative on the show and she'd give us feedback

and I really enjoyed her feedback because I respected the way she delivered it. And they're both very, very smart girls. Their podcast has got women. They're pot women, sorry. I know. I know you got to be gotten on it. Sorry. Their podcast has got such a good feel. Like you feel like you're listening to, like you're sitting in with your friends.

You're kind of like the female version of us. Yeah. They just need one more badass lady. Way less offensive, but yeah, they're totally, they're really, really good information, very entertaining to listen to. They both have the roots and crossfit, but they're very much focused on overall health

and wellness and all aspects. And they talk about their personal life stories and stuff. And so we had this podcast with them where they actually came down to mind pump media headquarters. And we all sat around and had just great conversation. And they got kind of deep. At one point I think we asked Joy to break you down. Adam, remember that?

Yeah. Oh yeah, she dove. What a crazy story, dude. She dove into me. And those are not great at all. Those that don't know. Oh, yeah, she do what a crazy story to she dove into me and those are not great all those that don't know I have it was I to watch you guys squirm of it was pretty crazy. I Had just so happened. This is never happened as crazy right she decides to dive

into my childhood stuff and those that have been listening to podcasts for a long time know that I've my real deck committed suicide, my mom then married into an abusive relationship. Check this out. My stepfather. Oh, this is where it gets awkward. This was so, oh my God. I'm uncomfortable. My stepfather who happens to be the one a part of that abusive relationship just so happened

to drop by my impunk media for his first ever live show that he's ever watched. First time ever. He was literally, let me explain. Sitting in a picture. I mean, paint a picture of me. He was sitting watching us. Meanwhile, she has no idea who he is. Yeah, she didn't know he was,

she didn't know he was, so she's a fan of the show. So she's like, well, Adam, I know you had a tough childhood and your mom was in abusive relationship and this and that. And I'm like, oh fuck, he's right there. And he, I mean, I've only met him a couple of times. He seems like a great guy and you guys seem to have, you know, better, really, I don't know.

But anyway, it was very, very. Yeah. So those that are listening to this episode just imagine that and imagine all of us sitting in the room at that time and how crazy that is that she had no idea who he was and the fact that he's never ever list not one episode at a 500 episodes, he just so happened to be here, I invited him to drop in and then that came out so I thought that was pretty wild. We talked a lot about topics that they were very interested in, you know, things that we've talked about in the past,

when real depth, like relationships of food, exercise, how we treat our bodies. Oh, we come right out the gates on CrossFit. Right away. We talk about CrossFit. We call the elephant that one, elephant in the room, right out the gates. And, I mean, we have a lot of respect for these two girls.

Love them. Definitely we'll be doing another podcast with them at some point in the future. So you can find their website is Girls Gone Wod, W-O-D podcast. Oh, and they brought a lawyer in here. Oh, that was great. That was cool.

She was actually very nice. Surprise, we have our lawyer with us. I'm like, why, we don't have a bad reputation. What, we're not doing crazy. Yeah, we'll talk about. Here, have a beer. Justin had to like put a drugs. Justin had to put on his pants real quick.

Yeah, man. Their Instagram is at Girls Gone Wad Podcast. And that's the name of their podcast, Girls Gone Wad Podcast. So do us a favor and check them out. Give them a nice little download boost. Yeah. Cause they deserve it.

They've been around for a little while. So without any further ado, here we are talking to Joy and Claire from the Girls Gone Wad Podcast. In my head, I have conversations with you guys, but no, I just feel like there's so much that you have opened my eyes to. And of course, I love CrossFit and there's a lot that's done

for me, but I think if there's something that I really want to continue to learn is what you guys have taught me is just there's so much more to fitness and there's so much more to like taking care of your body in so many different ways. And so I feel like that if we were to create something I think that's kind of what I want to do is like, oh, like right now I'm kind of like this and it's just like, what have I done to my body? I'm interested to know like what I've done to my body.

I'm 39 years old and I know there's things's things that I don't want to screw myself by continuing to do the same thing over and over again and compound injuries and what have you. But I think that's the, that's, I don't know. It's just all, I mean, I love hearing you guys's perspective because I know when we first came out and we first opened up, we targeted CrossFit, not because any of us didn't like CrossFit. But we knew that I was doing it. Yeah, we targeted CrossFit, not because any of us didn't like CrossFit. But we knew that I was doing it. Yeah, we had all done it.

But we also saw the big flaws. And so did people like Kelly starred, and that's why, and even Rob Wolf, like these guys built their businesses off the same thing. I remember when we first were gonna go see those guys, Mike Pletso, Rob Wolf. In our heads, there was a part of us that were like nervous, like an absolute awesome.

It was gonna be a little friction. When was this? What year was this? It's last week. Oh, just recently. Yeah, yeah. We hung out. We did Rob Wolf already and then.

We haven't got Kelly star. Yeah, that'll be a good one. Yeah, I look forward to the day we get to meet. But I can probably already tell you from all the stuff I've watched on Kelly and he'll probably be just like Rob, just like Mike, which they're not dogmatic about it. No. And they actually see all the shit that's wrong with it.

And they're trying to be a strength. And yeah, I don't know, that's what I respected the most, especially like Mike Bletzos, how he was coming into the community. And he wanted to come in and influence instead of, be outside and just talk about the flaws all the time. And that was like impactful even for me,

because that's something, obviously. Because Justin David's most. Probably the most I've hammered it, because it, you know why? It's because that's my mentality. And so I see myself in every cross-fitter, almost. And that- What do you mean, not your mentality?

My mentality is I wanna kill, and I wanna murder, and I wanna fucking do this workout. You know, and beat everybody by all means necessary. I feel the competitive side. Yeah, you know, that that's just the mentality that you know, it fosters at a really, you know, high level. Like I was, even when I was working out in it with my friend, I wanted to,

my friend was just getting back into fitness and I really wanted to go in there and support him in that process. And so I had all these reserves about CrossFit and I went in and did it with him and we went through these wads together and I actually lasted probably about two or three months and even for him he got swept into a lot

of the competitive part of it because we both played together. You and I were working here at that time. That's 10 plus years ago. I mean, that was, you guys are talking about what's wrong and what's the right? No, not at all. We were doing my experience in like why,

I don't know, I guess what, I'm trying to explain why I've probably been the most vocally aggressive towards it. Yeah, and I recognize that. Being fully immersed in it versus, you have to have that experience of fully drinking the Kuwait, and every single day you wake up,

and all you care about is going in and winning the warm-up and being at the top of the whiteboard. But that's not a long-term strategy for 99.9% of population. If it was called sport, they just put a goddamn sport after it. That's why I'm passionate about that. Why though? Because because it's because we just jumped into this

because it we can't help it. Yeah, because it takes okay, so it's different So if I'm if someone wants to get in better shape and they go play basketball to get in better shape Yeah, it's different than come do this workout, this basketball workout for everybody. So it's a different attitude and it's treated differently. So if it's a sport, people respect it, differently, they train, differently, they understand that it's not, that it's a sport first, getting shape second versus getting shape first, sport second, and I'll tell you, and I'll tell you, and I'll tell you, well, any athlete that's older than 40 plus years will tell you how many imbalances and how fucked they up, they are from playing their sport for 20 plus years.

It's no that's kind of what I'm waiting for. Well, here's a thing. Like CrossFit uses lots and lots of different exercises and movements. So it's not necessarily that it's one dimensional in the movements because you do a lot of pulling, pushing, or exercise. If you were going gonna pick one sport that you should play for the rest of your life to try and stay in the best shape,

it probably would mark up there as one of the greatest, but it still is. It's still not optimal. That's just it. And really, the problem begins and ends with the way that the workouts are programmed. That's really it. It's not the exercises,

because the exercises are excellent. The intensity, you can leave that up to the individual coaches and people doing it, because I've been to facilities where the coaches really monitored intensity. Oh, I have guys that work for me that are brilliant CrossFit coaches, and they're, but they're the 1%.

And really, they're spending a most, they're time having to like, talk people out of the sport mentality of it. And it's just like, well, it'd be just solved if we called it CrossFit Sport. And then there was these gym boxes where there's, you know, these control programming because those are the only ones I see that are doing it well.

And I feel like the Mike Bletsos and the Robbos, these guys are trying to help that movement. But it's growing so fast, it can't keep up. Well, I think the, one of the issues maybe, I know. Please. Oh, yeah. Welcome.

By the way, we're not on mind, puppy asshole. This is how we do. I'm trying to stop the staff. Are you fucking good, yes? Jesus Christ. You got up. I was going to say, I think that that's like been the issue with how fast CrossFit has grown is because when it first started, anyone really could have gone to the CrossFit games.

And just in the last three or four years, it's gotten to the point where it's like you have just as much likelihood of going to the games as you do being a you know high school football player who's gonna go to the NFL. But six or seven years ago, you could have just started CrossFit years and then gone to the games. And it's that mentality has not caught up with the reality. People that are doing it haven't realized. They still can't go to the games. And it's that mentality has not caught up with the reality. People that are doing it haven't realized. They still can't go to the games. They still think like, I could just walk in. And next year, beyond the podium of the CrossFit Games.

And so they look at the people who do that. They look at the catch and David's orders of the world and say like, well, I should train like her because I'm just like her. We're just regular gals going to the gym. And it's like, no, no, she's a genetic freak and has been, she's 23. Yeah.

Like, okay, she just is exuding human growth hormone as she works out. But, you know, so like, I'm with no athletic background, I'm not going to be able to walk into the gym and even in five or 10 years be it the CrossFit Games. Like, I'm just not, that's not going to happen for me. Well, it looks like it's shifting because again, like they're using, or working with people like Kelly Starrett, who is a mobility god. I mean, we respect a heck out of him.

And I think you're gonna start to see changes in programming. Like one of the biggest issues that we've had with programming was inserting Olympic lifts into fatigue-based programming, which Olympic lifts, and you guys know you do them, right? Extremely technical. Of all the lifts you could do with a barbell, nothing comes close to the technicality of an Olympic lift. At all, I mean, a squat and a deadlift

are very difficult to teach. You can multiply that times a thousand for an Olympic lift, and when you insert it into fatigue-based programming, where you're doing it for reps to where you get fatigued, the first thing that happens when you do any exercise that's a fatigue is your form starts to break down, which is okay with some exercises. Yeah, but we all of us in this room has spent 15 to 20 years trying to teach, I have clients that I've had for 10 years still trying to perfect the deadlift.

Like I have to put that much work into all their imbalances, just to get them to mechanically move correctly. And that takes years, with me standing there and helping them, like, and so, to have these people that are flooding into these boxes, and all they really wanna do is just look like a cross-fitter or get in shape like that,

and they've heard all these great things They there's so many it's to me It has to change at one point and I think it's a simple fix I think it's like put a fucking sport at the end of CrossFit So we know that hey, it's a fucking it is a badass sport. I love it. I think it's awesome And then I then we just have another side which is training programs And I think someone like like a Kelly star or Rob Wolf, who have a lot of influence in that community already, and they're very well respected, I think these are the guys that may create

it. Or I would love to be a part of that, where you have people that love those type of movements and you set it up in a different manner. It cannot be the way it is right now for the general population to get in shape and be healthy. And to be fair, and we've talked about this before, what CrossFit has done right is pretty remarkable. A lot of good shit. I mean, we worked in gyms.

I've been in working professionally in a gym now for 20 years, right? And it wasn't that long ago, no joke. I mean, you guys are both fit and you've been working out for a long time. It wasn't that long ago, no joke. Like, I mean, you guys are both fit and you've been working out for a long time. It wasn't that long ago that the squat rack had dust on it. Like nobody did a squat. So true. Yeah. Women did not touch barbell. It never did a dead wash. Yeah. And CrossFit comes along. And single handedly, because bodybuilding wasn't doing it. No one else was doing it. Singlehandedly got people to look at these very effective lifts. And better than any, like again, I've been in the commercial fitness industry who has

been advertising to women for a long time because they recognized early on that that's those are your main consumers. That's going to be your best consumer. Most marketers have noticed this and they've marketed to women over and over again. Crossfit actually better than anybody has sold resistance training to women. They've made it like, lift weights, build muscle, you look great and it's awesome. Which is an amazing message that we should have been giving to people. It was so long time ago and they are responsible for that.

It was so understanding. The way they're feeling like that, I wanted to give them like huge credit for taking people from just showing up at a gym and going through a workout to actually building a community and people that care that you're inside the gym and they're all supportive. And you didn't see that for a long time. It was just like, everybody went into the gym

and that was their thing. Yeah, like I grew up going to 24 hour fitness and working out in the gym and teaching classes even and just people go in You don't really know their names and then they leave and you're like, okay, bye. See you tomorrow No one really in a way crossfit for us at least classes Crossfit classes keep us accountable because we'll go in and you have the same group We're you're working out with every morning and then you leave or if you're not there two days a week

Everyone's like where were you and you feel that sense of community, but like It's really weird for me now to go into like an theory class, or I haven't been in a 24 hour fitness and forever, but no one talks to each other. This is so weird now, because you go in, and you have that community, which I agree with you, is a huge plus. But yeah, I think. I mean, in the business of fitness,

if you can tap into that, you're going to be very successful. I remember curves. Do you guys remember curves? Oh, yeah. Okay, curves tapped into that and curves. Yeah. I remember because we were in upper management for 25 fitness.

So we were in the fastest growing fitness organization in the world, right? So we're in the middle of that whole tornado of like, what's working and what's not working. Here we are in meeting after meeting, discussing how we can penetrate this particular part of the market, which won't even walk into our gyms. They won't even go in. And so we try everything. We try.

I was waiting for a sexual joke. I was waiting. I saw your face. So disappointed. I love you too. I know. So maybe later, we were trying so hard to get into that market. And here comes curves.

And really what they did is they just kind of created this environment. It was a crappy, let me work out. It was good. It was. Not even good for starters. It was a horror. It was.

And what's the, that was the, come on bro. That was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, the worst program you ever that had been delivered to millions of people. But they, it was like, they went from zero to like 500 machines in a circle and then do it again. Newmatic equipment. Yeah, they went from zero to like 500 machines in a circle and then do it again.

Newmatic equipment. Yeah. And this is why too, never ever ever ever, will group training be ideal for an individual. And at that's the bottom line, you just can't. And one of the greatest challenges that we have right now, and that's why what we're doing is not even close to being done, is, okay, we build this podcast. And first's why what we're doing is not even close to being done is,

okay, we build this podcast. And first of all, we all talk all the, all how much bullshit's in the supplement industry. So no supplements are gonna have to. Which by the way, I love when you guys talk about that because it's also like, you've saved me so much money. And I love that.

Recently, you just did an episode where you talked about like you're like, just go buy some caffeine or creating and then like make your own. I was like, oh my gosh, this is brilliant. Anyway, yeah. Go ahead. So, and that's why we can't get any money there and anybody who's been in fitness long enough knows that the best way to make money in this industry is through supplements. You need something or some sort of an EFT model where you have a membership fee every month. So, one of the hardest things for us was, okay, how do we create programs?

Because we're selling to the masses. That's individualized. If that's a big part of our message. So that is the hardest thing about what we do right now. But that's why what's so special about what we do with maps is that we encourage people to actually modify and we provide the tools to do that virtually. And that's why we're not there yet, right? We're close. We still have another program that's coming out to get really detailed. And that's why we're not there yet, right? We're close. We still have another program that's coming out to get really detailed. So that way, somebody who starts our program could be going along and they feel an ache

or they noticed this and it doesn't feel right to them. And instead of just falling through the program and not changing, there'll be places to tell them, boom, this is where you now go here and then we'll have all these ways for them to assess themselves. And so we're trying to create something as individualized as possible, and that's what's so challenging when you're talking to the masses and not one on one.

Well, because the masses is also looking for what everyone else is doing, right? So I think one of the things too that's really hard for me to, and just going back to all the things I've heard you guys say, is that it was hard for me to hear like you should back off sometimes like that's really hard when you come from a mentality of like you have to do more more is better and But then you end up screwing yourself and you like your body I mean I want to get into a conversation with you too about nutrition like later about like hormones and crap of like doing the body competitions or the fitness competitions, but But that's a mentality for women

that we feel like we have to do more in order to achieve the perfect body. It's 100% correct, it's exercise and this is what we're truly the most passionate about. Really, I mean, if you listen to our podcast, you can hear our moods change just times when we're pissed off and we get real negative.

In fact, I think you have messages from a point. Yeah. And but really what we're truly, truly passionate about is sending the right message that is going to get people into fitness the right way. And that's going to give them long-term health and total wellness, not just wellness of the body in terms of the aesthetic, but wellness of the mind

and feeling good about yourself. Because that's what lasts forever. And when it comes to exercise, but wellness of the mind and feeling good about yourself, because that's what lasts forever. And when it comes to exercise, a lot of people, men and women, they treat exercise many times as a punishment. What I mean by that is like, oh God, yesterday I ate all that cake at that party. I'm gonna go to the gym and beat myself up

and just burn it off. Or, God, I'm looking, you know, they look in the mirror and I look like shit, I need to go work out. That's it, I'm gonna be motivated to work out because I look horrible. And the way you treat your body when you hate it is completely different than the way you treat your body when you love it. And the difference in the way you train is, it's dramatic. It's the difference between going to the gym and exhausting yourself on cardio for hours at a time and doing these movements that you think are gonna change your butt

or whatever you hate about yourself versus going into the gym and listening to your body. Cause sometimes what you need to go when you need to do when you go to the gym, I mean, you come home from work, you're exhausted, you're stressed out, maybe you have a young child at home, you're not getting any sleep, maybe you need to go to the gym,

sitting in the Robics class and meditate by yourself. In reality, that's gonna benefit your body more at that moment, but you're not gonna do that if you hate yourself. You're gonna wanna punish yourself. I think two things there, when we talk a lot about how people see food and exercise as a transaction.

And for us, we talk all the time, eating is not a transaction. You need to eat because you love your body and you wanna fuel it and you wanna be good to it. And then you exercise for the same reason. And like, yes, nutrition is obviously a part of that. And there's a part of any effective workout program, but you can't have them intrinsically tied together.

Like, you need to view them as separate things. Still, you need to not think, oh, today's a rest day, so I don't get any carbs. Like, your body needs carbs. You know, you can't, there's no such thing as like a good food or a bad food, and it shouldn't be tied to what you're doing. I think the second thing that we have started talking a little bit about and I think is kind of the next wave for us is like how do you change your body while still loving what it is right now. Like how can you appreciate what you have and still honor the fact that you want to make it better. So I had a, so I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's very, very in tune with this,

this side of wellness and we can sit there and we can have these deep conversations about this. And we talked about that exact thing because you can be objective about your body and you can have a body image that you don't connect to your self image, which is you can make them separate, which is good, right? You can look at your body and say, here's some parts that I want to work on, but it's not going to change my self image. And we were talking about like, how do, okay, what if someone wants to lose weight or wants to change how they look? How do they do that while loving their body at the same time?

And it got to this point here where we started talking about, okay, let's pretend for a second that you truly love your body. And what I mean, what I mean by love pretend for a second that you truly love your body. And what I mean by love your body is the way you would love your child. Like you just want them to be feel good and be healthy. You feed your child according to that. You don't feed your child according to your fat or your skinny or you need, you know, those types of things. And if you do your whole body and if you're right, let's hope not.

So if you truly love your body, how would you, how would you, that's a very good point. That is. It's a very good point. That is. It's a very good point right there because that's a fucking battle on itself right there. How would you eat if you did? How would you treat your body physically? How would you exercise? And what is the physical representation of somebody

that is at peace with themselves and loves themselves? And that physical representation looks like a fit lean individual. It is literally a side effect of those things. It is not, that ends up not even being the goal. It just becomes a reflection. We had yesterday, we had the honor of having Paul check in here, and if you're not familiar with who he is,

he's like a godfather in fitness and wellness, and he's just, he can be out there, but he is absolutely brilliant. And he was talking about what he does before. He eats, we had dinner with him the night before, and I noticed when he'd get his food, he put it in front of him, he put his hands around the food. He's not a religious person,

so if you don't know who he is, he's not religious at all. To see him do this was. He puts his hands around the food, he puts his head down, he kinda looks at it and he comes up and he starts eating and so you're like, okay. And you kind of expect Paul to do off the wall kind of stuff. So I asked him about it and he says,

oh, well, I have a conversation with the food, which is classic Paul, say something like that. And he says, he lost everybody. Just 80%. Immediately. And he says, I asked the food if I think the food for this energy transfer, I asked my body and I check with my body if this is the right food for it and what I'm going to get from it. He has this whole conversation, which is a lot like prayer.

And it kind of dawn on me that cultures all over the world for thousands of years have prayed over food. And is it because, and they've benefited from it. That's why it's part of their culture. And Paul does it and it benefits him. And I thought to myself, it's not necessarily the prayer or the words, does it and it benefits him. And I thought to myself, it's not necessarily the prayer or the words, all he's doing is he's slowing down and he's asking himself, his true self, is this what my body wants. Now think about that for a second. If we did that all the time, it would be rare that we would have foods that are probably not serving us. Now, if I'm at my daughter's birthday party, and I'm celebrating her, you know, her seventh birthday, her seventh birthday, and we make a cake, and I may do that over the food, and that cake, I'm gonna eat it.

That food at that point doesn't necessarily mean nutrition and nutrients, at that moment means celebrating what's happening here, right, with the birthday. But most of the time, that's not the case. Most of the time I'm eating dinner, I'm maybe I'm with friends, but usually I'm on them with my girlfriend or whatever, if I take the time, that's not the case. Most of the time I'm eating dinner, I'm, you know, maybe I'm with friends, but usually I'm on them with my girlfriend or whatever.

If I take the time in front of my food to do something like that, my own version of it, whatever it is, I'm much more likely to make a food choice that is, quote unquote, the right food choice. Now the problem with this message is that you have to go, oh, it's so, the problem with this message is it's so, it's too far for most people. And they're not they're not ready for that level of awareness.

Like then that's why Paul literally either if you if you listen to Paul check either one, you are just like glued to every word he says because it's so powerful for you. Or you turn, you turn them off immediately because he's touching, he's touching areas. You don't want to well, you described them off immediately because he's touching, he's touching areas. You don't want to. Well, you described just that one interaction of him doing that with his food and it was the first thing all of a sudden, like, okay, weirdo.

Right. And because you know that's what everybody's thinking. And that's why we have to preface, preface it like that because right, right away, you can't help but think that. But when you actually just let the man talk and, you know, and think open mind, like the way he's communicating, the man talk and you know and think open mind It's like the way he's communicating the man's brilliant and he's been doing he's been talking about shit way before the Sciences came out. It's just his language. Jesus. Yeah, and it's all brought that up You know if you can be able to like almost interpret for him, you know

It's easy for people like he's not worldwide for a reason because that it's just people are and this is where I hope mind pump really helps and this is why the show has to go with the program is because if we're talking about trying to get individualized with people we all know that even our bad ass programming and all the best stuff that's out there nothing is more powerful than helping people connect the dots with the relationship with food the relationship with their body and relationship with exercise those fucking relationship with their body, and relationship with exercise. Those fucking three things will change everybody's life

when they put that together, but most people spend their whole lives just trying to figure out one or two of them. Well, the thing that I remember when I first started listening to you guys was, okay, no offense, I was kinda like, all right, they were gonna try to get us to do some freaking bodybuilding workouts

and it's not really geared towards women. They're just gonna be so like myopic on like, these are the moves you need to do. And then I started listening to you further. And first of all, I've been listening to you since you guys first started. So it's kind of, it's so cool to see you guys. Oh, shit, wow, that's so hard.

I'm like an OG. Oh yeah, no, and she is, and you know what? She's actually giving me feedback on our show that I truly appreciate. No, I really do. I use tell me about that. I was like, oh, I always love that. Healthy criticism.

Well, you're a big reason why we're a big reason why we started really self, because let's be honest, we get thousands of people fucking telling us what we're doing wrong. Everybody wants to tell us what we're not doing and what we need to do, so we get that a lot. But when we received that from you, we thought we had a lot of respect already for what you guys were doing and each of us kind of sat in the room and said, okay, we need to do. So we get that a lot, but when we received that from you, we thought we had a lot of respect already for what you guys were doing, and each of us kind of sat in the room said, like, okay, we need to really be aware of this.

And we now have this large platform we're affecting a lot of people that look up to us and direct them, and like we have to really evaluate are we letting our outside life bleed into our message that we know is so important, and we all checked ourselves that like, as much as we thought those episodes were powerful and they got a point across, they also had an energy about them that we don't believe. Like we don't believe in that.

But I knew where you were going, what I'm referring to is there was so many episodes at first where I was like, it wasn't so much a turn off as it was like, well, I know what they're against, but what are they for? And so that's kind of the piece where I was like, hey guys, just so you know. Can you remind us? Yeah, a little like two cents here, but like, that's kind of as I stuck with it,

because I knew I was like, I know where they're going with this. I just want to keep listening. And that's the evolution that I saw where I was like, wow, they're just, they're opening their minds to so many things that are out there that people, you're not gonna change anyone's mind. Like, it's like the equivalent of Facebook,

all the political posts. Like, no one's gonna change their mind by reading your post and be like, oh my gosh. Now I'm gonna have a great point. You know what I mean? Like, wow, I think I'm gonna go register as a Democrat today. Like, that's just not gonna happen. So like, I knew where you guys were going with it,

but like, I saw the evolution. I'm like, this is really cool because now it has helped me. And it's mostly like I know how smart you all are. You have like collective knowledge that's years and years, but like the piece that was missing for me at the beginning and how I've seen you evolve is like, there's so much out there that you wanna just, you wanna explore it and you wanna be open-minded to it and, like, welcome people in that way instead of

just, like, you don't want to just be another person that's preaching whatever Kool-Aid you're selling. Yeah, we had a lot of, especially when we first started, there was a lot of anger towards an industry that hasn't served people well at all. And I know it's a consumer-driven industry. I do understand that. And I understand that we're the ones that create this industry that advertises towards our insecurities,

makes us feel shitty. I mean, who honestly can go through a fitness magazine and feel good about themselves? I mean, very few people. You go through it and you end up feeling shitty. They have studies now to show this, that when people go through social media and they look at fitness posts, they feel worse about themselves.

And so we were angry about a lot of this, we were angry about the lies, partly because we worked in the industry, but a big part of it, I'll be honest with you, is we were victims of it. You know, we are, we make no qualms about talking about the insecurities that drove us to exercise. I mean, I was a painfully skinny kid who felt very inadequate. It didn't feel very, you know, my father was this athletic strong guy.

And here I was, this bookworm. And I got into lifting weights because I thought it would turn me into something that I thought I needed to be. And when you're that kid and you're impressionable and you feel that way and you look in these advertisements and it's like, and it says, you know, take these five bottles of pills and you'll look like this and here's how you become manly in house.

And I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on supplements that did nothing to me, which except maybe contribute to autoimmune issues that I developed later on as an adult. And then as a trainer working with clients who've come to me in this particular situation, we were angry. And so the first, you know, 50 episodes was calling people out. And you know, our theme when we first started was zero fucks.

That was our hashtag, right? And it was literally- It was this shock and our approach. Yeah. And the business strategy when you look at it, I mean, we were trying- We were so like 10 of those shirts, we're keeping it real. We can't, we don't want to be pedaling shit.

We don't want to, we don't want to do what everybody's done before us. So, but we did have to get attention, you know, and so the kind of just like, ah, the very beginning was that was it looked at us. So, and then let us kind of explain things to you. So I definitely think we don't have very good filters. So, you know, what's on our mind tends to come out. It's not working. Thank God it worked.

But it was really good. And I think I'm just a geek that way where I'm like, I'm listening to you guys talk about all this stuff. And I remember Adam, I feel like you used to be more like guarded and now you're just like an open book talking about everything with your childhood. So, what's crazy is, I mean, that's my personality. When we started, I had to be this like, you had a one in

dining room. Well, no, I had to be, I had to be like this bodybuild, I had to be the bodybuilder guy. And you know, I remember when we had Craig, he was with us for the first and that never worked out. And it just, it was another host that we first started with. Imagine the testosterone. You guys know Craig right?

Do you Craig could person bodybuilding dot. Okay. So buddy of ours. We've done a few episodes with him where we've interviewed him, but we actually started with him and the dynamic just didn't work. And but we knew that like that bodybuilding world was so important that we got a hold of it because they're just as fucking bad too. I mean, if they're the worst, I think they're the

worst as far as extremes. And I really saw this when I went through the whole, you know, competitive world, and it blew my mind what I had seen. And I knew we needed that. And I kind of wanted to use Craig's clout to help us in that direction, because he had he had similar views as we did. And so it was, but it didn't work. And so I had to kind of take on this voice of you know the body builder side even though I never really felt that way so part of that was I was kind of oversharing the part of me that really wasn't completely what you guys have seen is you've seen really me now because you've what you've listened for this long

Like even to my Instagram like my Instagram was built as a business I started the day I started it I turned it on not because I wanted to connect to friends and talk to people. I started it because I had a plan to build a social media business. So from the very moment, everything you ever saw me post, right about talk about, I was trying to learn how to deliver my message. And the irony of all of it is it's come full so that what I grew and built my little business off of originally. It was totally not me and my personality was what I needed to get the attention of others. I knew that if I put myself on this platform and showed you that I could change my physique like that,

that you would respect me because unfortunately they get so much respect. That's the currency that people, you know, I mean irony of that is that is what you hate about the fitness industry. Yeah, and I got it. that's the currency that people, you know. I mean, irony of that is what you hate about the fitness industry. Yeah. And I got it. So, which is also like what people like scratch their head, they think like I've evolved. I extra hated it. They thought I evolved like during the show,

like for example, I worked for Orange Theory. Like that doesn't make sense. I'm sitting here talking to you guys about what I see about group training. It's impossible. So why would I go work for that? Why wouldn't work for a company like that, knowing that I could influence the community within that gym. It's a small box. I saw the direction

of where it was going. I knew I could influence those people and then that's we started doing seminars within that. And they actually stopped us. Now to be clear, that's not to say there hasn't been a tremendous amount of growth from all of us. Oh, in the last two years, I've grown more in the last two years and I did in the previous three. So I'm not saying that I didn't. I'm just saying that My who I really am and like that a lot of the expected those things. You're just your growth minded. Yeah from day one That's absolutely. That's that's my personality and I feel like I finally got to be me towards the end and I but I had to put on this like Bodybuilder face for everybody and I used to tell these guys behind scenes I would be he's actually getting angry because we would get messages

And I used to tell these guys behind scenes, I would be like, he used to actually get angry because we would get messages from people. And they would be think, it would say things like calling Adam like a bro or, you know, whatever. And he get really angry. But like, well, this is, he's like, people think that that's the only side. We're like, that's cute. You're trying that move. You know, like, like, you don't know anything about mobility or sports performance. And you're just a doggy builder. It's okay. Because I've, we've all known that this is and that's

is why this works with the three of us is that and and and dove for us that the mission is much bigger than any any of us individually and so all of us are willing to take criticism one way or have to take on a role to get a message because we know that the biggest way we can impact people is going to be by helping them connect those dots we talked about, because I think that's the psychological part of being healthy and being in shape is, is, that is the part, it's everything.

It's that the food part is like it's so easy after that. Okay, so my question for you then, taking it back to our original conversation about CrossFit, what do you think needs to change day to day in CrossFit boxes for that to become the goal? So with number one, take the programming, eliminate, this is very simple. Take the Olympic lifts and treat them like the Rome speciality. Yeah, as a Rome specialty and don't insert them into fatigue-based programming.

So what I was saying earlier is, as you fatigue form starts to break down, and some exercises that's okay When form breaks down a little bit like if I'm doing curls or if I'm doing like a crosser to do a lot Yeah, yeah, or a lot of curls or even an overhead press like if I get fatigued in my form breaks down a little bit It doesn't go from safe to super dangerous. Right or sit up or an air squad. Yeah, what I'm but Olympic lifts they go from Safe to dangerous, very quickly. So that's number one.

Number two, that's purely like a safety mechanical. Totally. Totally a safety thing. Because every single person I've trained that's common been injured from CrossFit. That's how they got injured. It was from the fatigue-based stuff with the Olympic lifts. Or the power movement is like box jumps

when they're fatigued and then they fall or hit their shins or whatever. Now, the second thing I would say with CrossFit is, really, because CrossFit is a loose affiliation, a lot of people don't know this, but the CrossFit box is, they're franchise, but it's a very loose type of franchise, so they're very autonomous.

They have a lot of kind of freedom. And so- Right, they can do actually anything they want. Pretty much. There needs to be some leadership there to organize so everybody's on the same page and they're all. Which is what Blu's been talking about. Yeah, that would, I'd say that would be a huge benefit.

And now that we, this is why we really liked him because he did, he does see this, you know. Now the cool thing is, here's the good and the bad. The good is, I like things to be freeing for laboratories of experiment to happen. I like that because the best will rise and grow and the horrible ones will shut down, which is good. But the bad part about it from a business standpoint

is it's under the umbrella of CrossFit and in the name, right? And if you have a lot of fails which you're gonna have when you have that much freedom, it could tarnish and damage the name of Crossfit, which could damage the brand. So imagine what it's done. Right.

Like imagine if McDonald's had this real loose franchise where this McDonald's over here could serve, you know, uh, yeah, exactly. You know, it's funny. Did you watch the documentary? Did you watch the rate crock documentary? No, that's from Mitch headberg. What I do? Oh, okay.

So I'm not taking credit for that. I did. Oh, like there's a legend. So McDonald's actually ran into that when they first started franchising. It was that exact thing. You had some McDonald's open up and they were selling like chicken wings and biscuits and then this guy over here.

So they kind of streamlined that. So a little bit of that needs to happen, but I, so far from observing CrossFit and the direction it's going, it looks like it's not, it looks like it's moving forward in a good way. It doesn't look like it's going backwards, and it definitely doesn't look like it's stagnant. It needs to separate from sport. I feel like it's a key for me.

But what does that look like on a date? So that's what I'm asking. So I assure you, and I agree with you, but if I'm walking into a CrossFit gym and I'm average Claire over here, middle of the whiteboard, stealing my crap, what does it mean for me? What it means for you is like, that will never exist for you again,

unless you are wanting to compete in the sport of CrossFit. And if so, if you're just wanting to get in shape, then the programming looks completely different. It can't look anything like it looks like, but it has dead lives, it has squats, it has overhead press, all the shit you like, but it's taught to you in the right manner. So if you come in and you're like, I love this cross fitting, is it the movement you

like or is it the crazy class? And this is where people, this is the awareness thing where you have to, you have to ask yourself is, are you for the entertainment? What are you there? What is it that's really drawing, drawing to you? And is that whatever that is? Okay? Ask yourself and you know damn well, especially if you listen to our show, is it what's best for my body?

And then you go from there? Yes, I was just going to say that's something that's evolved for me personally, where I have originally I started CrossFit and it's like, I want to get in shape and I want to be a badass and I want to go, go, go, go, go want to get in shape. I want to be a badass, no, no, no, go, go, go, go. P.R. every single day. I want to appear every single day. Joy, it was real concerned about winning the warm-up. Always.

It was very competitive, beating all the boys. This is why you're an awesome person. I should've listened to him. Were you an athlete before you were an athlete growing up, right, in competing? I was a dancer. A dancer? Well, you were a mirror that you had to run a lot of mirror

signs and ahead, like, and you have a very competitive personality. I was gonna say a better question would to ask would be very active. Oh, yeah, I was doing everything and anything and you look, I mean, you look like you I mean if I if I I can tell These shoulders are for my father. Okay. So I didn't really you know, I can look Oh, we went to Costa Rica a couple weeks ago and like people met on the like side of the road were like, oh, a flirt day like even in another country, people can't ignore joy shoulders. That's awesome.

That just doesn't happen to me, unfortunately. So you flex for them. Yeah, I got to. So, but starting CrossFit was one of those things where my mentality was, I just wanna kick the shit out of these workouts and I wanna be everyone and I wanna be the first, the top person on the white board. And I'm still probably well.

And you would like it pissed on workouts where they didn't take a score and she'd be like, well, how do I know? I want to be everyone and I want to be the top person on the white board. And I'm still probably well. And you would like it pissed on workouts where they didn't take a score and she'd be like, well, how do I know? Like how do other people know what I did today? I was not. I was not. Yeah, I was nutty. And so over the years, I don't know if it's age,

I don't know if it's just like, it kind of gets old. And I'm not saying again, we have a podcast about CrossFit, so I'm not like shitting on it. But it's more of that the mentality around it is exhausting. I'm kind of tired now. And I'm like, so now I go in, but it's also tied to my insecurities in the past of body image and trying to attain some certain physique. And then we've just been recently talking on our show about how I kind of came to this realization that I'm like, I've been fucking working my ass off since I was 20

in the gym running whatever and looking at workouts as the transaction with food. And what I came to realize is like, that's just not healthy. And I don't want to come to the gym with that mentality anymore because it's just not good for me. And I have to credit you guys too for helping me see that because that was just a mind shift for me of just working out is not a punishment. And also that I was spending so much time just beating the shit out of myself mentally and physically and my body wasn't changing. And then I was like, well, do I need

there's like there's always certain parts of our bodies that we don't like, right? And so that was the piece where I'm like, I just don't want to do this anymore. And you know, while I love it for like, I just don't wanna do this anymore. And while I love it for working out, I don't go in with the same velocity or like the same feeling of, I have to kick everyone's ass, or I have to lift more weight.

I'm just, I'm trying to be more intuitive. I think it's important to say that that I'm gonna go in and beat myself up. Attitude is not exclusive to CrossFit. So that happens in all fitness. In spin class, step class. And I think it's also really like, that's the mentality that you get.

I mean, I know I'm sure it's there for men as well, but like for women, you're very much taught. Like you have to earn your meals. Like you are, you know, the only reason that you're allowed to eat is because you, Cheat-tap. Right, exactly. Well, even just like, if, you know, the only reason that you're allowed to eat is because you cheat day. Right. Exactly.

Well, even just like, if, you know, as a woman, it's almost like expected that you're on a diet, right? It's almost expected that you hit your body. It's almost expected that like there's something about you that you are currently trying to change in some way. And kind of to say, you know, to take it back, like you were saying that you got to this point where you're like, my body is not changing. And then also to what we were saying earlier about like, if you were to really honor your body and feed it well

and listen to what it wants, that looks like, just ends up looking like a healthy, lean person. One thing that, like, so I have an 18 month old, my body obviously in the last two years has gone through a ridiculous amount of change. And part of that is telling now the story of like, you get to a point where you just have to decide

that your body tells a story of where you are in your life and what your priorities are. And it's like my priorities right now aren't to go in the gym and kick everybody's ass. Like my priorities are to be at home with my son and are to have, you know, home-cooked meals and get a little bit of extra sleep every once in a while instead of getting up

and going to the gym. And like, if that means that I weigh 10 more pounds and I feel like I quote unquote should, then that's the story of my life in this moment. It is, and let me ask you this, while you were pregnant, did you love your body more or hate your body more? Because I've noticed with my clients,

when they're pregnant, it's either one or the other. I actually, I feel like I felt pretty neutral. I will also say that I went through some really serious postpartum depression. And if I look back on it, I definitely started during my pregnancy. And so I didn't feel, I didn't have as quite the same like a serial pregnancy

experience that I think a lot of people have of like, oh my God, I'm the sacred vessel. I didn't have the... That's like the first two. I went to a class like that. So I'm the sacred vessel. I didn't. That's like the first two. I went to a class like that. Yes, so. I am not that person. Oh, you're so like Justin.

That's awesome. Yes, it's so good. Thank you. I'm like, not a hugger. Not a hugger, like I like to. I'm a hugger in the shit out of you before you leave it. You already did.

I was like hugging out the case. And we're touching. Yeah, that's happening. But I just am like, I'm not in my body in that way. And I always just sort of, you know, I'm not the type of person. I never, you know, I don't believe in like soulmates, I don't believe in like, you know,

all that kind of stuff. Touchy-feely, sheesh. I'm not a touchy-feely person, I'm just really not. Forget about it. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not there. And I'm really, I'm not like a hippie to be crunchy person. You were always, you were also raised

with hippie to be crunchy person. Oh my gosh, why? So you were a bell, like a group in Santa Cruz, though. Boulder. There we go. You were always, you were also raised with hippie-to-be. Oh my gosh. Okay, so you were the bell. See I grew up in Santa Cruz, so. Boulder. There we go. Oh, Boulder, oh hi-five. Yeah.

So yeah, I just grew up all around. Oh dad, her dad invented celestial seasonings. So my dad's all around the same thing. Oh wow. So like, really like real-bulled. Really hippie, real hippie-bulled. Real, real deal. And like, my godmother is an herbalist.

Like guys, like I didn't go to the doctor as a kid. I went to the chiropractor. Like hmm anyway, that's a whole other episode just You're really excited I know in house So do you know the first day that I met him I told him I said the first words in my mouth where I hate chiropractors Yeah, he said he had to eat that but instantly when we over because he looked back at me with me too Welcome dr. Brink But anyway all that to say that like I just I don't think I really have that experience my body before.

And then prior to that, I was kind of in that same boat as Joy is like, no matter what I did, I weighed 125 pounds, I'm five three, like that was my body. And then I got pregnant, obviously all of that changed and it hasn't gone back. And so in the last year and a half, having to reevaluate my relationship with my body

of like you never get your body, quote unquote, get it back. And just going through that transformation of like, okay, what does it mean to love my body now? And what does it mean to make choices that I feel like to your guys' point is like, this is how I honor my body in this moment. But that doesn't necessarily mean that my goal is to be this like lean machine. And I think that that is sometimes what gets lost and that conversation is like people assume that if you're making those choices, that is based on the goal

to be this like lean athletic machine. That doesn't necessarily isn't true for everyone. And this is how CrossFit works as a sport because sometimes it will. There's nothing wrong with you setting a goal that you know what? I'm 35 years old this year. I'm going to get in the baddest shape ever. I'm going to do all these wrong with you setting a goal that you know what? I'm 35 years old this year. I'm gonna get in the baddest shape ever. I'm gonna do all these things and you set a goal It's like what I did with competing. I knew Dan well going into that I was never going to I wanted to get out of it as soon as I could But the I set a goal that I watch me show these motherfuckers how I slated experience absolutely and and I would never ever

Tell somebody they should eat and live like that on a regular basis. Ever, I would never tell anybody. But it's the freaking social media crap. I feel like it's just exacerbated the problem. So like 100%. So like I just want to give an example too of like, I remember. You guys love shreds.

They're great. Yeah. Shreds for life. We're live. So the, I think I asked a question a couple of weeks ago of like, how do you coach someone who has an unrealistic goal? Because that comes into play for me personally of like, I think I had an unrealistic goal

on myself of like what I wanted to look like. Now, to a little bit of background is Claire and I started counting macros like a year and a half ago, right? And just, I don't know, you wanted to really zone in for after... Yeah, it was in like kind of the heat of my postpartum depression and I was like, I just need something to like ground me during the day. I was like, not even two months postpartum, so I was still at home.

And yeah, I needed like an anchor. And it was great for that. So food, a lot of times we create food. And we treat food like it's a way we can control a part of our life and make us feel in control when things feel out of control. Having a child is one of the, I have two kids and it's one of the most, it's awesome, but it's also one of the most out of control moments you'll ever experience your entire life. Because nothing is ever the same again.

You don't sleep like nothing goes as planned. Your house is a fucking mess. You know, all of a sudden it's clean out. So it's a very difficult time. And then on top of that, the post-partum depression, I did not feel connected to my kid at all. And you feel, did you feel guilty about it? I felt a lot of guilt about that.

And I just felt like, what the heck is wrong with me? Maybe I wasn't supposed to be a mom. And like, don't get me wrong. I really, my child's name is Miles. I wanted only the best for him, but I did not feel like he was mine. And so throughout all of that, in theory, you have this switch in the back of your mind,

that's like, but this is worth it, because look at this like amazing child who loves me and I love, and like, I didn't have that. Well, I think number one, I think it's important that we hurry up and destroy the whole, that the societal myth that, that being a parent is the greatest thing in the world. Yeah.

It's hard. I have another saying. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, yes. Oh my God, we're the irony in that. It's true, that was money. It's, you're gonna take my job. It's, that's, here's your job.

Put a sound effect in there. Yes, I would love a sound effect. I'm still in my line. Remember that time right there. It's, a number one, it's very difficult. It sucks a lot of the times. And if you're a woman in particular, you feel guilty or you're led to feel guilty if you say any of that shit.

Now dads, we get the little bit of that freedom. Like I could go tell my buddies, like man, it sucks. Kid was up. Like when mom start talking, like you can hear them careful with what they say, because I don't want these people to think like, oh, maybe I shouldn't feel this way. Well, it's because then, I mean, and this is a whole other conversation, but then you get that stigma of being like the crazy mom

who drowns their kids in the bathtub. Yeah, I'm very good. Like, you know, just because, right, exactly, like, just because I did not have any affinity, you know, that doesn't mean that I wanted to throw my kid out the window, but that is kind of like the black and white, especially with new moms, is that people,

and I think that luckily that conversation is changing in our society right now about like, what things new parents really need. But it's sort of like if you are not in this, like, you know, glowing aura of motherhood, then you might as well, then you don't disagree. So I think, it's refreshing to hear you say that. My wife went through the same process

and like really had a hard time, you know, she didn't, was uncomfortable the whole time and it was, oh, don't you love being pregnant? I don't do that with everything on our part. She was like, ah, get the sound of me. I so you were sitting with somebody and you can see I'm a pretty petite person. I would honk the horn of my belly whenever I got in

and out of the car. I had to, but everyone was like, you have such a healthy, easy pregnancy. I'm like, yeah, but I still was carrying around a child in my body. Like that just sucks. Still, just, yeah. I think that's what, it's our night time.

It's a invader. Claire and I try to do a lot of on the podcast is just talk Mary can't believe about our lives in our day. That's an awesome story that you have to share that because people need to hear that. Well, women will write us about marriage, about having babies, because we lay it all out on the show. We're like, we marriage hacks,

like we talk about like tricks we plan our husband just to get through the day sometimes. Like, you know, like marriage is hard and relationships are hard. And babies are hard. And being a, yeah, working as a, stop the freaking soulmate memes on Facebook. I was in solely just to get the playbook.

The pullups were like, it'd be two stops ahead of her That's my I don't tell her I Slap them like this. Yeah, you're gonna kill someone one day. This is gonna go partner workouts I Know and now you yeah

Stop it stop with the small mates at the same time if you are one of those people that's okay That's great. That's fine. We love that shit They tired of it. And we're judging you. But one last question too. So we can tie this up too because I really want to get back to the whole diet piece is like when you have unrealistic goals. I'm like how you talk to women specifically because let me tell you this and I want to

hear your thoughts on this too Adam. It's like so I started counting macros with Claire. I don't know whatever. Yeah Christmas. Last year. And I'd never know, whatever, you're in the last year. Yeah Christmas. Last year. And I'd never done anything, I never paid attention to anything I ate ever except for that time you were a vegan.

Yeah, whatever. So at one time. Yeah. Call it one time for five years. So so it was really interesting for me. I had a lot of resistance going in, but I got to know what it was and I wasn't like horribly turned off by it, but I lost a ton of fat. I was extremely lean to a point where people would stop me in the grocery store and be like, do you compete?

Do you do bodybuilding competitions? I looked gross, I looked back in pictures and I'm like, holy shit. My body was like, fuck you, we're not doing this anymore, I completely rebounded, I gained all the way back, which was like fine. I mean, my body needed it anyway, but it mined screwed me because I thought that my body was supposed to be that way, just because I started paying attention to what I was eating, my body responded right away.

And then when it started to, I lost my sex drive, I lost my period, I was like, just, my hormones went to shit. And, but then in my mind, I was like, but why didn't my body body stay there and I was tied to a number and I was tied to how it looks and then it went It went back. I was like pissed it I went through some like major like psychological stress over that crap and so I feel like there's Like people don't talk about that either because we look at photos and we're like, well look at her with like 8% body fat Like I want to achieve that but no one's talking about how we aren't supposed to do that. And so when someone comes to you with a goal,

like not about like I want to do a show, like out of that realm, but how do you talk to someone about that and make that known that can you just like accept your body and like this isn't just a realistic thing, a healthy thing that you should be doing. Well, it's pretty recent that we've considered shredded as fit and healthy.

It's actually quite recent in human history. If you look at, I mean, men can achieve a certain leanness that's healthy, and women can achieve a certain leanness that's healthy, and there's individual variances between in that. But this, especially for women presenting this shredded six-packed striation type look, has never been especially for women presenting this shredded six pack striation type look has never been healthy for women and never has.

And for anyone who's ever gotten there before, who's a female, you will, you stop your period. Like you said, you lose your sex drive. These are all very strong signals that your body is not doing very well at all. It's not healthy. Now, men can have side effects as well. We just have to get a lot leaner to get there. And you got to understand that like fit and healthy doesn't look extreme.

You see what I'm saying? That's just the bottom line. If you see someone that's extreme, that is not what fit and healthy looks like. And then you have to ask yourself why are boy, you know who just did a great YouTube, our boy, Judy Mufu. I don't know if you guys ever seen him or not. That is the best name ever. Yeah, nobody's ever seen a cartoon dog. Well, he hates being called John. Yeah, he does. So, he's the Annabelle Akrabat,

and what I really liked about it when we first met was he was a real smart guy, but he was like a computer engineer, so I can't remember what his job title was, but he worked in a lab, I think. Yeah, and he was just a self-taught in the fitness industry. And so he was a pretty damn smart guy, especially for someone who didn't like,

he's not his profession, you know what I'm saying. He does it as a hobby on the side. And he just did a YouTube video about that. It was pretty neat. He was going through, he just moved. And he was going through his photo album. And he was flipping through and he was showing people when he got

ready for a magazine. And if you look at him, you'll see he's ripped, he looks amazing pretty much year around. But he's very real about where he's at right now versus where he was before and his way he gave his message, I thought it was really good for people to watch just because it was very simple. It wasn't getting into the science behind it, it was just like, listen, you don't want it. You don't want to live that way. When you keep your body there,

your body's unhealthy. It feels this way. It feels that he's naming off all these things that he goes through when he felt that, just like what you were just explaining right now too. And that right there should be your sign. Like I can tell, my body's telling me, it's like those of us that ignore it

because of our insecurity to wanna be like someone else or look a certain way. But the feedback you get is what? Awesome. And I feel like, it's amazing. No, but the feedback you get from people I'm saying is like when the feedback you get,

let me rephrase that, the feedback you get from people is like, you look so good. Yeah. You look amazing, right? Yeah, well, and I feed you in that direction. Yeah. And then I think you see those people who also look like that and you're like, well, this must be what the life that they're living. So I guess it's exactly. And so it's just.

Well, now you know where our passion comes from when we get heated, right? Yeah. Yeah. So this is where, so it drove me crazy when, so when I got, when I first did my transformation, it was from fat to fit. Like I said, it was the show people. Watch me do this. Watch me do it the right way. And I did a whole documentary on it. That's what started to build my social media. And one of the things that people just are not doing in the bodybuilding community, and this is like, I got to meet like

some of the best coaches coaching the best guys in the industry. So we're all the cover of the magazine dudes. I'm hanging out with, and I'm talking to, and I'm hearing how they program and how they eat and all the stuff they're taking, and I'm going like, holy shit, like all that, and I'm going like, you don't gotta do all that for this.

You can get a lot closer than you think to that. So there's this misconception of what you need to do to get in really good shape also, and that's a major part of the problem is there's this extreme mentality and it's really doing more harm than it is good and you can actually you can look pretty fun I mean South keeps himself the leanest out of all of us I'd say year round and if I were to say who eats the most intuitive and doesn't it doesn't track and doesn't do any of that shit and looks awesome. And I mean, no supplements, no nothing. He stays probably, what do you probably, like, 7, 8% body fat?

Anywhere between 7 to 10 usually. And he's not trying to do that. It's like, his can of sardines and his pocket. Yeah, he's not eating that deep. And it's, again, like, your body will reflect that when you approach it in that way. But again, those extremes that you see in the magazines or on Instagram or whatever, they're not, even those people don't look like that all the time.

In fact, you meet some of these bikini. Well, even if there are, there's some of these guys because there's some of them that stay year round look freaking just diced. I know. There's probably hate their life. And those are like 1% of the actual human being popular. Exactly. And I think that's the problem, which is

like, you know, we talk about this a ton like you this is this before and after culture. And there's no conversation about like, what does that actually look like in the day to day? What does that actually look like in your mind of like, do you you know, do you really want to live the life where you look in the mirror and are pinching your body to see where you know, to see whether or not back to like the food you deserve that day, you know. And like, that is just not, it's not the way to live your life. It's not the

whole thing. It sucks though, but, but it'll, I don't know if it'll ever change because the way to get people's attention are these crazy transformations and these, the faster the better, that's the way our minds. I mean, we're always trying to do things quicker and faster and we're going that direction even more. We're becoming more plugged in, more, we're downloading more data faster than we ever have in our lives. We're not going back to, that's what scares us.

But yeah, I also see that being a tool for what we want. I also see, through social media, I see both sides of the coin, I see the, getting worse in some areas in other areas, realism is starting to pay off. Once realism and really connecting to people on an authentic level becomes more marketable than the fake stuff. Yeah, let us know because.

We're working on it. We'll all be rich in this room when that fucking happens, but for the time being, you know, that's the hardest part though That I mean it's so hard for me not to use my before and after and my I was gonna say that like you could probably post that easily Every single day and like sell a shit to the program. They're back. There's a again. It's how I built my page I built I built my page off of that shit. Yeah, yeah, and now you get to really see who I am But of course, I'm still running a business,

and it would be stupid for me not to do that. So it's such a struggle I deal with daily. Knowing that I need to do that to get the attention because that's what the fuck everybody wants. But knowing that I'm really not helping. It's like, did you guys see the debate we got in with the doctor yesterday? With over the nutrition thing. Oh, you guys, On Sal's page, like 300, so we call it. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Sorry. So this doctor posted, out of the bad mood. This is an obesity doctor. Hugh Suck. He's such an asshole sometimes.

Is that obesity doctor? Yeah, that's what he did. Sal was in an ear, and he would normally not do this, but he did kind of poke at him. And he normally will actually ask a very thought-provoking question. That's a poking the bear. Yes, and he totally poked him. So that was our bad.

So I want to first, I'm privileged by apologizing for what happened. If you're listening, but the message that we are trying to get across to him was he had this, he had an image and it was, what was it? Sounds sensible, breakfast. So it was, it was, it was, it was like drink a slimps fast shake and then you're going to lose weight. It was the slim fast advertising. Well, he wasn't selling, you know, he didn't, well, he wasn't selling slim fast. Yeah, yeah. You can't, you can't say that. No.

It was, it was a legitimate post, but what, what I was, okay, he's an obesity doctor. So this is his specialty. Right. He's in theory a medical professional. Yes. Okay. And he's putting up there that they should have a shake instead of burger and fries. And I'm like, yeah, no fucking shit, right?

And I'm sure those people that are super fat know that. I think they know that if they didn't eat a burger and fry and they had a fucking protein shake, they would make them lose some weight. That is not solving the problem and actually giving that- And that's not the problem. Exactly.

Thank you. So I feel like that, you know, us, and this is where this is the voice that we're trying to be, especially with them. Like, you don't, you'll never find one of us on some young kid who's trying to figure things out and he's saying stupid shit and we just kind of shake our heads.

I'm not going, we're not doing, but I am going to come after a doctor who I feel should know better and is giving this information because it's in his best interest. It's very predatory, you know, he's putting that out there. And oh, by the way, I have a way isolate.

Formula I just come up with and, you know, works well with this philosophy. So it was too convenient, you know, not to really point at that poke at it. Is that any different than posting them before an after picture knowing you're going to get people in the door that way? Why do you think I struggle? Why do you think I struggle with it? That's why it's fucking hard. Like you said, I'd be doing it every week.

You'd see that picture repurposed. I got a million of them, I've sit down. The only time I did that, I think it was because of episode they're asking for it again, you know, like because they were remembering like the process of that. But yeah. You don't have to justify your before I'm out. I'm just saying that.

I'm just saying that I'm judging you. Fair enough. I'll take that. Yeah, I think with just the message needs to change a little bit because the message hasn't worked. People are sicker than ever. Obesities higher than ever. People feel worse about themselves than ever before.

There's a lot of reasons. It's funny, I was watching something, how what TV show or movie I was watching the other day where back in the day, I don't know if you guys knew this in fashion There were only like four seasons. Yeah, now there's something like 16 or 20 or some ridiculous amount of seasons. Oh, yeah Fashion thing where it's like you used to actually can like have clothes made and they were your summer clothes and your winter clothes And that was it and now it's like early spring mid spring late spring Yes early summer and it's like each time, mid spring, late spring, early summer.

And it's like each time you feel like you're, you have to refresh your entire life. You have to not only refresh, but you just look bad if you don't, right? I don't look good. And so you have all these industries that kind of feed into that and fitness isn't helping. I feel like fitness really,

it's a different, it's a different. It's a mother fucker when you're a 35 year old too, trying to stay in style because you just figured out what the fuck everybody was doing. And then like next week, it's all the wrong season man. Yeah, dude. Just do like I do and wait for Jopa. No, that's why you have a podcast.

It doesn't matter where you're wearing. You're like a big last time right now. See, thank you. Yeah, we all have Facebook for radio. We said that already. Thank you. Thanks for pointing that out. And you were talking about your very stylish jeans.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, again, it's the message that we try and try and put across. You know, we were talking about how do you talk to the person who that's their goal? You know, I had a conversation with a client I'll never forget. It was very simple, but it was quite mind-blowing to her. She asked me, she said, it's out. What kind of cardio should I do in the morning? And I said, okay, well, what are your options? She's like, I can do stairmaster, I can run, I can get on the bike, or I don't know, maybe yoga. And I said, which one do you like the most? And she's like, well, I don't know, just tell me the one that burns the most calories.

I said, the one that's going to be the most effective is the one that you like. And she was a little bit kind of blown by like mind but like, what do you mean? Like, I don't you want to tell me the one that I'm going to burn the most calories? And I had to teacher, you know, how to approach fitness in a way that was'm gonna burn the most calories. And I had to teach her, you know, how to approach fitness in a way that was gonna really work for someone. Because anybody can get in shape in 30 to 60 days, but can you stay that way forever? And not just what you think the aesthetic form

should look like, but where you're actually at peace with yourself, where you, and it's a great place to be, you know, it's a really great place to be to walk in the gym and you'd be like, man, I feel like- Well, the problem with your grip- There's two ends of the spectrum right now You have the like super woo woo hippie like he sounds like sometimes when he talks and then you have the extreme

Which would I was living the bodybuilder world the extent it's like there's the their polar opposites right now And there's really a way to kind of live in the middle You can have a badass aesthetic physique and be strong as a motherfucker and hip PR still and do all that, but you can also meditate. Well, and I think it takes practice to get to that point of like truly listening to your body. Like people all the time you see tell me like, oh, just listen to your body.

Like what am I listening for? You know, like that's not something like if you're new to working out or you're new, you do in a lot of ways need somebody to tell you, this is what you need to do just to get started because you don't have that background of knowing, okay, this is what it actually feels like for my body to feel good and so you don't know how to get there Mm-hmm. So, you know when you talk about feeling the signals, okay?

Imagine you're trying to go to sleep now. Can you try really hard to go to sleep? And will that make you sleep faster? Right now. No, you just go to sleep and so really feeling the signals that your body's telling you isn't about trying really hard to feel the signals You get past the bowel movement and all that Yeah, it's about It's about just Being quiet for a second and just being in the present and then watch what happens and it sounds simple It's very difficult to do because everything we do we have to try real hard to do But it doesn't work that way. I can't sit there and try to get connected.

I just have to rely on my friend. And here's the thing, the people that struggle without the most are the ones that needed the most and the ones that are practicing and doing it really don't need it that much, meaning like those hippie crunchy people that are meditating all the time and breathing really slow and well.

Well, crunchy, come from. There's no, there's no, like, I always wonder that. Crunchy granola. Yeah, they're not pushing it, They're not going beat beast mode ever They're like killing all the time and they could use a little beast mode in their life And the people that are going beast mode all the time and have that competitive athlete mentality Those motherfuckers are the ones that probably spend a little bit of time meditating and that it's and really what we're trying to help people

Do is connect those dots on who you are, because we're all so uniquely different, also why group stuff is so hard, also why maps is so challenging for us to our programming, so challenging to try and create it for the masses. And that's why our mission is nowhere near done, with even with all the shit we have out there, you mentioned right now, like how we talk and start, do you know that we do this free 30 day of coaching?

Okay, I don't know if you guys have seen it or even dug around it or whatever, but that at the concept behind that was, okay, if someone hired me for 30 days, and I had to like give them topics every day, what am I gonna cover, how would I cover that? And we all came up with exactly what we cover. So each day, you get a topic.

For example, day ones like protein, and then there's bullet points on it. Real simple, so the average person pick up some good information if they need it or if you know everything you need to know about it, you move on. Then you go to the next day, maybe next day is like gut flora and you're like, okay, actually, I don't know a lot about that. Now it has all those bullet points and you also have all of our YouTube's, all of our podcasts right to the minute where we've talked in detail about it. Plus all the studies that support whatever we discussed. So people can go through this for free for 30 days and they can just absorb what they

want or go through all 30 and absorb the entire month. And it's a culmination of, you know, 500 episodes that we've done, plus 250 YouTube videos that we've all compiled. And that's free. And we give it a free because we feel like this is just barely scratching the foundation and surface of what you should go through and learn before you decide any crazy modality of training, like learning about yourself. That's 30 days chicken out.

That's a great commercial. Yeah. Great commercial. No, I don't know. I feel like it pertains to what you were saying. No, I agree with you. And I think that, you know, it is tough for people who I think maybe when I was giving you that example, it was maybe a little bit misleading because I think that, you know, it is, it is tough for people who, I think, maybe when I was giving you that example, it was maybe a little bit misleading

because I think that at the end of the day, like your hard press defined an adult who truly has no background, who truly has not tried a bunch of crap before. Right. And I think, you know, it's just as hard to separate. What's the crap? Well, I think it's hard to separate that within your goals,

like back to Joyce original question of like, you know, these unrealistic goals of, it's hard to separate the within your goals, like back to Joy's original question of like, you know, these unrealistic goals of it's hard to tell someone like Here's how to set up your and we have plenty of thoughts about goal setting, but Um, here's how to set up your goals so that you have a goal that is not just based around this after picture of your physique or is not just based around You know, but it's actually truly a mindful goal, right? And it's actually truly like, but that is so abstract. Like how can you write a new spot? Well, here's a setting a goal like that is like going to college for whatever degree you're going for and trying to define

the job you're going to do, spending more time trying to define the job that you're going to do after you finish degree, then actually going through the fucking degree and learning what you need to learn because you'll never get that fucking job if you don't finish those. No, but you might figure out that might not be the job. And give that mind exactly.

And you find out this is not the path I wanted because you haven't, you haven't, it's also why the other day I popped off about somebody asked a question about competing and then the question was like dealing with binging, you know, Adam, when you cut low carb, this is that. I'm like, I don't think anybody should compete until you start to hone in on the relationship that you have with your body and food, and you should be proving to yourself that you can get in the best shape of your life and you ever have on your own without a coach and someone telling you before you ask somebody to put you through that extreme to get on stage in front of other people. Like, why would you do that? That's like playing a sport and never practicing it

and then getting out and playing with the fucking pros. That doesn't make sense. It's not like a couch to 5k program. Yeah, no exactly. How did you go from that extreme mentality to like chillin the fuck out? That's like that's not easy. Well, I think we're all a lot more like and that's what drew us all together. Like I said, the bodybuilding version of me was never me. So I turned that on because I'm a very driven business-focused person and I knew that that's what I needed to do with what's going on in the air. So you were actually able to separate that in your mind? Totally. And I think that is where a lot of people get. That's why I hired no coaches. I was on no team. I did everything. It was like a truly outside of like your mentality.

Yeah. I wanted to show everybody like that. I had a major chip on my shoulder. I understand the motivation behind it, but like it's hard for me to think that someone could go through that and not internalize it in some way. So you have to consider that right. You have to consider and he's hard to. Not at all. Not if I have a fault which I obviously don't it's humility Yeah, you have to you have to consider Adam had been in fitness professionally working with lots of people For a while before he ever decided to do that. So he already developed a good Relationship with exercising himself before he went into that.

Now, if he had not done that, his motivation may be different. And a lot of people compete with a motivation that is an ideal. And in fact, most of the eating disorders of some of the worst relationships we see with food and exercise come from that world. It made me connect, though, on another level

that I so I loved. I'm so appreciative for that experience because it made me connect though on another level that as I so I loved I'm so appreciative for that experience because it made me connect to people that want that that are into that so much. I mean I'll tell you right now for sure when I like someone were to hit me like top moments in your life. Boom that come out. One of those is standing after I went pro in Vegas and that feeling and like everybody was looking up at me and just like

I was hit I was it outside pull. Oh, it was just the most It would literally was on another level of experience for me and I was like whoa like right So it's not like you are completely detached from the whole experience. Yeah, no, that was not I enjoyed every fucking minute of all of that and I got I got how that could be Yeah, and you can and you can identify it with that really easily. And man, that's a, and then where I felt really bad is on Instagram and social media shit, like we put this false perception out. So like when I started meeting all these,

I have these kids live with their parents still. And they're like, cause that's the only way they, cause you can't, there's no money in it. But they put this lifestyle, you know, they're like, cause that's the only way that cause you can't, there's no money in it. But they put this lifestyle, you know, they're driving around their dad's BMW or some bullshit or they rented it for the weekend and they put all the best of their life, which I believe we're all guilty of, right?

Including myself. It's, you don't wanna put the worst of you out on there. So most of what we put out on the social media world for others to see of us is the best parts of our life. And no one does it. I think better than the fitness people, like they post these, like make fitness like so, ah, it's so awesome in this.

And they glamorize the fuck out of everything. And then they got all, now you have this younger generation coming up, and you're like, oh man, all I gotta do is compete in the show, get ripped. And then everybody's gonna follow me. And then I get sponsors. I'm gonna make all this, it's like such a false perception. It's so off and there's so many people that are trapped in that

and man when I was going up through it I was blown away at what level to I thought well maybe when I was at the amateur level I thought well maybe it's just because he's our amateurs when I get up to the pro level this is where all the really smart people are gonna be at right. Oh shit there's nobody and there's a lot of people making a lot of money off that industry. And it's getting worse before it's getting better. It's growing out of control. Well, let me ask you girls,

you both have been exercising yourselves or training for a while, right? You've been doing this for a long time. Considering where you are now with exercise and nutrition, how you view both of them, how different is it for you now than, I don't know, 10 years ago?

It's completely different. Completely. I think that before we talked about that transactional relationship and that was, I think, completely where we both were of like, for me, I have no athletic background. Crossfit is the first time I've ever been an athletic person before this.

I mean, I was active, I was a rough guy. I was a backpacking guy. No, don't. The scoundrel choir. I wasn't show choir. Right. There's like some strategic breathing. Why didn't we only with the song? Why didn't you sing when we opened with Justin? I mean it's gonna happen. I'll just just do it. We'll do it at the end.

How's Dunn? Dunn. We'll do it. Okay. Of an angel. How could are you at jazz squares? I don't know. I can't do I don't know, like, you. I can't. Let's try that one. You know what, I'll harmonize.

You did that to me all the time. Yeah. But I think, so for me, like, anytime that I would kind of make a foray into that, it was very, like, it was not my lifestyle whatsoever. And so it was easy for me to just say, like, okay, this is gonna be this, you know, six-week program. But I remember in college, you know, doing things

where it was like, all I'm gonna eat for the next six weeks is like tuna and spinach. And I would last like three days, this is gonna be this, you know, six-week program. But I remember in college, you know, doing things where it was like, I'm all I'm gonna eat for the next six weeks is like tuna and spinach. And I would last like three days, right? So for me, it wasn't really something that ever was a huge part of my life, but the way that I looked at it as an outsider was like, this is something that is so black and white and is just like, it's like a layer of paint you put on top of your life. It doesn't affect anything else in your life.

And I think the biggest transformation for me has been the realization that you can't change one part of your life without the rest of your life changing as well. And that if you really want to, like, be to your point like a healthy, make healthy choices, it's not just about only eating tuna for six weeks. It's about actually taking the lens and looking at your life holistically and saying, okay, what needs to change here and what, you know, do I need to do day to day to make this long term versus like, what is the program I'm doing for the next six weeks? And so your first level awareness.

And it's much healthier now, right? And it's a different level of awareness and understanding of these things. But I think that I still get in the trap, and this is why I was saying like, I'm, you know, surprised that you were able to go through that without internalizing it, is that I still get in the trap where if I'm trying to lose these last 10 baby pounds of like, well, why don't I just eat tuna for six weeks?

I don't know, that'll fix the problem. And so there's still that part of my brain that tries to take over. It's a process and it takes time. Like I said, 10 years ago is very different than now. 10 years from now, it's gonna be very different than it is today, as long as you continue to try to grow along with it. And examine it and talk about it.

Look, the podcasting is amazing therapy. I get to talk about my process all the time. And it actually speeds the process up. I don't know if you guys have noticed this with yourselves in relationships with things like exercise. Well, enjoy is a literal therapist. So like when we do podcasts, like my might as well just be in therapy. It's great.

It's nice. Now, I mean, it's free. I don't care. It's free. I've been doing this for a very, very long time. That's why you know us so well. Exactly. I'm very, very worried about your assessor.

Paul Check already nailed us. I know you guys do it. You don't even know. But you know, I've been doing this for a very, very long time. And there were, I mean, distinct steps along the way and I can remember each time evolving and moving to the next level of my understanding. And it wasn't even that long ago where I finally was able to break the chains of, I need

to eat protein every three hours and I have to lift the weights this particular way so I can look buffed or whatever. It wasn't even that long. I'm 38 years old. It's taken a long time. I think if you approach exercise with that understanding of growth, that growth minded, I'm loving my body. I'm doing the things that are good for my body.

It will continue to evolve. The problem with that is the time for people. And the time that it takes to- They wanted to happen tomorrow. Yeah, the time that it takes to go through these layers. And that's what I meant by when we talked earlier about, I'll spend 10 years with a client getting them to perfect a deadlift

because there's so many layers to getting to, even just the mechanics of the body and the nutrition. Well, I have the answer to that. The answer is this, enjoy the process along the way. I was just gonna say that because then what, like you reach a goal, like for me, if I whatever got to whatever percent body fat, well then what, it doesn't really matter of the end goal.

Like we're all kind of putting this end goal and fitness and it just goes along with everything else in life. It's not about the destination, it's the journey. So it's like, but we don't do that with fitness. We think if we achieve this perfect physique or whatever it is that we're freaked out about with our health, then that's the end goal. Exactly. Let me add, there's a term for it. There's a psychological term or condition where after you achieve a particular goal or pinnacle, there's that post-event depression or lack of

motivation. I can't remember, there's an actual term for it, but you'll experience this if you're a competitive athlete or whatever, you'll train for an event and you'll get so psyched and then you'll compete and then like afterwards it's like so hard to get motivated like you were before or whatever because everything was attached to that one goal. So it's a very short term strategy. Marathon runners get this all the time. I remember after the Olympics, they did like this huge ban on all the Olympic athletes of like getting them, getting them therapists to be like now that you you're in tire life, the thing that you don't do, is completely like that.

Exactly, yeah. I mean, the people that are listening to the beast mode message are these competitive minds and these marathon runners, these personalities that feed into that. And that's another real big problem that I have with a lot of the class settings and the beast mode mentality is just that,

it's not that I don't see a place for all of that stuff. It's just the wrong people are actually doing it. Exactly, exactly. You know, and I think that's the that's the biggest issue I have with it. Well, you're putting yourself worth on the end goal, which is totally, totally bad thing to do for anything. But like if you, I don't know, I just feel like if you're, if you look at the journey and you're trying to enjoy the process and you're trying to be nice to yourself, like that's kind of what we're going for. And I think that's what we've learned along the way. Like 10 years ago, if you're asking me,

like my 29 year old self, it was completely, I was running because it was burning more calories. I was running because I wanted to get skinny. And then if you want to take it a step further, like when's the first time you were aware of your body as a male? Like, let me stop that. Whoa.

Are you trying to set me up here? I remember the exact date. No, 1980, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. class, like something like that. Yeah, I was aware of that from day one. Manly junior high. I want to, and you know, I'll tell you what, the good thing about being in the industry,

the professional industry is for as long as we have, is we've seen certain trends develop, and I'll tell you something right now, like both men and women are advertised in a way that is not conducive to long-term health and fitness. But women really are hammered way more than men. And I'll tell you, it wasn't that long ago. When I first became a trainer, okay, in the big box gyms, they had a women's area. Oh yeah, colored machines that were colored

a certain way. The pads on the machines were like a dark pink or purple I think it was. They were the exact same fucking machines that were in the rest of the gym. The difference was the pads were different color and the weights that actually took up. It's all for marketing.

It was all for marketing. Women, the term toned was created to advertise to women to get them to come into gyms because no woman wants to build muscle, right? So no, no, no, you're not gonna build. You're just gonna tone. Just gonna tone your arms. Yeah, the lengthening and lean muscle, the long look, you're not gonna build. You're just gonna tone. Just gonna tone your arms. Yeah, the lengthening and lean muscle,

the long look, all marketing towards women. Oh, shit that we said, by the way. Yeah. Just rage stroke. It was all, and so what happens is, number one, women are advertised to just like men are about your, you know, for men, you're not strong enough, you're not manly enough

for women, it's you're not, you don't look good enough, you're not, you know not hot enough or whatever. But then on top of that, the information women get, is so wrong, it's like, hey, you don't wanna build, so do five million reps of this butt kick back. And use these small pink dumbbells, don't you dare touch the iron over there. And if you lift heavy, you're gonna grow a mustache

and testicles, like you don't even wanna, don't even get your- Oh, shit. And it's the awesome. It's not only wrong, it's the opposite. Like, as a trainer. Once again, the people that could use it the most, okay, weren't doing it the ones that you're doing it, the most probably didn't need it, right?

Did it need to do other shit like yoga and stretching and taking care of their body? I'll tell you what, nothing is more empowering. I've gotten, I've had this conversation with female clients more times than I can count. Nothing to them, they've told me, I never felt so empowered is when I can lift something heavy. Now, I don't necessarily think it's because they felt weak

before, but maybe it's because they felt like they shouldn't be super strong or able to do certain things. So all of a sudden now they're dead lifting 200 pounds off the floor and they're like, I've never felt so empowered. I don't know, I could be this way. And then of course, the way they look is amazing. Then they realize that, oh, I don't look like Sal over here. Well, this is something that CrossFit did very well.

They did very well. We think that they are for sure responsible for women lifting strong women. Good barbell movement. Finally, in the gym, I think they are solely responsible. I don't know anybody else that got that message across better because like Sal said, bodybuilding has been trying to do it for less.

Oh, I know. He just went to Jupiter, sorry. I am the young one. I am the young one in the group. Yeah, I just randomly happened. You guys bodybuilding, bodybuilding has been trying to do that. No, I remember. Fuck you, Justin.

Sorry. Is it the Brady for you. 20, 20 greatest. I don't know where that came from. I get some water over here. Oh my god. Speaking of your ball is dropping. Yeah, right. So we failed and we've all failed. And even as trainers, we failed, because I'll be the first to admit that I avoided squatting and deadlifting and teaching it because I knew it was challenging. As a trainer, I remember the first time going under squatting and being like,

knowing it didn't look well, you know, and I didn't feel well. So I even avoided it for many years and worked around it and that mentality is horrible. And CrossFit was definitely, I feel, really responsible for getting a better message out about that. It took some time for me to get used to the fact that I was going to build more muscle, but I think a lot of people think that if they start lifting anyway, especially women that you're

going to get bulky and you're going to look like a man or what have you, but like, I'm just going to wake up on morning and be like, oh, should I got bulky? Yeah, if only if it was only that easy muscle. Right, if only, thank you. I know, I talked to people and they're like, even to this day, you know, they'll, I'll tell my do CrossFit and they're like, even to this day, they'll tell my do crossfit. And they're like, yeah, I've thought about it. I just don't want to get bulky. And I'm like, do I like bulky?

I would pay money to get bulky. Exactly. But the marathon days, I just remember back in my 20s, I was more of the goal of running to get skinny. And then now it's like, you can actually build muscle and you don't have to, I can probably squat for an hour and do really intense squats and then feel just to sore the next day as if I ran a marathon so you don't really need to pound

the pavement for that long. Not only that but I think I think soreness is a bad indicator. Yeah I remember you saying that. Yeah and and people like you should actually feel good after your workout. You should feel energized. That's it. You should not leave your workout feeling like you're you just got it was just killer and I can't move and now. And so that was people connect that with the good work. That was my experience when I went through CrossFit. So I went through it when Justin and I both were working together that years ago. And this was like when people were doing it out on the asphalt. We were doing it in 21. I saw Jason Cleva running shoes. Yeah, I saw Jason Calipa. I'm like they're running shoes.

Yeah, I saw Jason Calipa, Neomatics, buddy of mine, like complete on asphalt. Complete on asphalt. You could beat on asphalt. Before there was any official meets or anything going on. And I remember finding out about it, doing it myself. And man, I was just afterwards. I was so beat.

Now, there's the side of me, the athlete inside of me that kept going, because I like the competitive side of that. But really, when I asked myself, is this the best way that I should take care of my body long term? And I knew I couldn't do it. It wasn't what was most conducive, because I was working long hours, and it's just like, this is too much on my body.

So I think that's the message that we keep trying to get across with everybody. I think everybody, when we first came out, we came out so strong on CrossFit. I think there's a lot of great things that it's brought to the community. And I think people, I have so much respect for people like Rob Woof and Mike Bloodso, what you girls are doing. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people that, to me, I feel like you just accept it and be aware that it's new.

It's very, very new when you think about a modality or a sport. We're just trying to channel that energy into a more positive direction. I think that's, and I really feel for that community to really assess, you know, how, how to improve and go forward and always be critical of what, you know, what you're putting out there. It's a tough, it's a, it's a pivot. I think they're doing it because in the beginning, it feels like it. In the beginning, it's a pivot. I think they're doing it because in the beginning it feels like it. In the beginning it was glorified like there was that unofficial mascot of the clown

puke in all over the place and you know they called them Uncle Rabdo or whatever and puke. Yeah puke the clown and you know and people would brag about how they couldn't move and all these different things and it's been pivoting right there I think it's a difficult pivot but I think it's happening I've seen it more. The people we've talked to who are leaders in that world are talking about it in ways that where we're like, oh shit, like this has already changed. It seems to be, I've changed quite a bit.

I know the commercial side of it, the sport side of it, which is why Adam keeps harping on, that it needs to be called sport. I think that's always gonna be because it's great for TV and it's exciting and it is a cool sport. But the that's always gonna be because it's great for TV and it's exciting and it is a cool sport. But the other side of it, I'm seeing now a little bit of a change in how it should be approached.

So... This is what drew us to kettlebell sport is it was exactly that. Because kettlebell sport has a very similar kind of feel as far as the community, the way the boxes are and they train and you know, it's reminded me of spot on to, and it happened in this area too, like there were Santa Cruz area for CrossFit is watching these communities grow with kettlebell.

But what I love is that they recognize as a sport. And, and that's how they've started it from the get go. And so I feel like I can get behind it. And, because I know, and I, you better believe we'll have to answer this question in three, four years when Ketabal sport really explodes. Like, oh, you guys don't like CrossFit, but you attach yourself to Ketabal.

It's almost the same concept. It's this high intensity, lots of repetitions to fatigue. You know, it's, okay, well, it's a sport. And I think it's an Austin sport. I think CrossFit just put it sport after it. I think that in itself would solve a lot of problems. You meant to me that. Yeah. One more time. I think that in itself would solve a lot of problems. You meant to be that.

Yeah. One more time. I know I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with no, no, no, no. I don't think that's a hard, I don't think it's a hard pivot right there. It's like, you know, fucking change it. Just put us, fucking put some different signs up. It's a sport. Super easy.

Oh, he got real in there. You know, it's in there. I'm sold now because as a trainer, I get it when my clients ask me, should I go do CrossFit to get in shape? I can say, well, do you feel like sport? Yeah, do you like the sport? No, we're gonna do, we're gonna grab things that say sport and we're just gonna put it on there. Yeah, just gonna go around all the crossfit.

Oh my God, we'll solve the problem. What's like the top questions you guys get from your community of like advice for fitness or whatever. You know, we hear all the time. We get a lot of the typical, you know, how do I work this area better? How do I get stronger here? I want to lose this much more.

Not any more, if that. We'll still get some of that, but then, you know, our more hardcore, we'll get questions about our personal lives, which I think is hilarious. And we like to answer that every once in a while because it's fun and funny. But we're getting more and more questions on

the harder questions in terms of like the more abstract stuff like yeah, how do I get my spouse to you know exercise now without making them feel bad or how do I you know I've gone the yo yo dieting for so long like how do I make this more of a lifestyle what's the transition into to eating liplike? There are very difficult questions for us to answer. Yeah, so we get a lot more of that kind of stuff, which I'm happy because now people are asking the right question. Well, I was gonna say, my guess is that people,

your audience has evolved to asking questions that are not so much like, how do I lose 10 pounds or like whatever, which is a good sign because that's shown that you have influenced that. It's good and bad. It's good and bad. This is something Taylor meant. So you get into semantics, I feel like. Well, exactly. This is something that bad. This is something Taylor and I do it into semantics. Well, exactly.

This is something that is frustrating with that. Taylor and I were just talking about the other day that we just had Dr. Ruscio here and he's a gut health specialist, brilliant, just awesome to listen to someone talk about that. And even more awesome to listen

to someone at Sal's understanding of the gut, ask a guy at that level questions because you just get the most awesome amount of information thrown at us. But, I mean, it's worked for me to digest that. It's worked for me to digest that. And disseminate that into my, how do I apply?

I think I've got Flora Pond, you may not know. How do I apply that to real life? And so we lose, I feel like a lot of people that are just coming on board. So this is a struggle that we have, because we want to help evolve our like long-term listeners that have enjoyed the progression and they're asking deeper, better questions.

But if you're someone who slides in, first time you ever heard my pump, you tune on and we're talking about getting in touch with your spirituality and like, you're like, whoa, what did I just step into? I don't know if I'm ready for that yet. So that's a struggle we have right now. Still keeping it very, very simple and basic but then also giving what our audience that's been listening since the beginning

is what they need. Yeah, I get that. I have like, we've, I don't know, I feel like the, I, we've had a similar kind of evolution, you know, started off with people saying like very kind of straightforward training based questions and now getting more, you know, we went through the phase of like, how do I get my spouse to start CrossFit? And I think, you know, we've gotten, gotten into a lot more mindset questions and a lot more, you know, we went through the phase of like, how do I get my spouse to start across it? And I think, you know, we've gotten, gotten into a lot more mindset questions and a lot more, kind of like specific to your life. And, you know, those questions, like you said, are so much harder to answer because they answered typically as well. It varies. What does your life look like? And I, but I think that for us, it's kind of more like we,

if someone were to come in in that episode and say, hey, I really love this and I resonate with this. That's the listener we want to keep on board versus if somebody comes in and kind of bounces back off of like, well, well, I still want to talk about how to lose 10 pounds. Like in our mind, like that person, you know, is it just at the start of their journey? And we're so much farther than it's like, okay, maybe the message is go back and listen to episode one.

That's what we used to say. Yeah, versus like, okay, let's kind of lowest. That's hard though when you started. So this is the challenge that we had, right? So this is also once again, why? Well, I mean, you made the 30 days of coaching because we knew that we're like, okay, we can't expect someone who just comes in now.

And you don't wanna alienate people by being like, screw you guys get outta here if you can't, if you can't meet us for that. Well, we also, I mean, we also have a very strong background in sales. You guys just give me really good ideas and I wanna, and I'll explain you why that's important. Good sales people are effective communicators.

And in order to communicate our message effectively, we have to think of our message and how we deliver it. And sometimes, if we stay here, like Adam was saying, and someone comes on, I just want to lose 10 pounds, or I just want to get a bigger bench press. And I'm talking about your relationship to food and love your body and, you know, learn how to meditate. They're not going to listen anymore and we've lost somebody that we could touch.

And I learned this. We learned this firsthand, all of us as personal trainers with clients. You know, I used to have, I used to take pride in this. I used to have these come to Jesus talk to my clients. I remember when I said that and then they would go away and then someone, you're like, well, I lost them. I have like no contact now. would have exactly I'd have a client who'd be training me You know three days a week and she or he would come to me and say hey, Sal my schedule really only allows once a week and

Old Sal would be like well, it's not worth it get your butt in here and make it a priority This is what you need I do this whole like motivational whole you know motivational asshole speech and Most of the time they would leave and never come back. And my attitude was always like, well, then they weren't ready for it or whatever. And then I started realizing that person, I didn't do them anything any better and they're not exercising now. Like once a week is way better than nothing. Arguably, they're probably the ones that need it the most, right? That's right. That's right. So you know, that's that's where, you know, what we say with our message, we have to make sure that people are kind of getting in and understanding real quick what's going on.

It's challenging as fuck, but I learned it. I challenge us. It's part of why I think the growth over the last year too is because that we're always thinking like that. Like how are we, as if someone's coming in and listening and we're so passionate about all the things the fitness industry has done wrong, how do we not just naturally get lumped there?

So we're constantly struggling with that and with our message. Well, I feel like it's a responsibility of ours to disseminate like this information and bring these guests on that are very scientific and to be able to present that in a way that's more relatable. Very, very. Just like you guys. Well, here's the deal. You have the academia world, right?

That presents this hard facts and science, but then you have like you guys who you guys connect with your audience huge So if you get you know, you get some of that information and you don't need to know it all You seem to be able to connect your audience to deliver the message Well, that's what I was gonna say is like you guys clearly have this connection piece And I think that we always talk about podcasts now or like a dime a dozen. I get a little annoyed because everyone in their dog is starting a podcast and I'm not trying to get on my high horse,

but I feel like that's like the newest thing. So we are constantly- Right, it's a new fitness blog. We're trying to stay ahead of like how podcasts information can evolve. Because everyone right now, you can pull up 50 podcasts of like, how to meditate, how to de-stress your

life. And it drives me crazy. Like, if I see one of those, I'm going to bark. But like, the, so the information you can just completely spout off on a podcast, no problem. But with the biggest piece that we found, it doesn't matter what you say, it's the connection you have. And so the relationship that you guys have and the evolving that you guys have done is what people connect to. I think. And as the trustee, both your audience, the trust that like guys have and the evolving that you guys have done is what people connect you I think and it's the trust that you both your audience the trust that like if they listen They're gonna hear something that's valuable and that like you've vetted right that you're not just gonna be giving them Then any of them about

Yeah, it's our audience is so committed that way which we love we talk about it all the time like we Never would have dreamed that we have a community that we have right now Well, and you also got to consider there's a small entertainment factor like you guys are on your podcast We talk about it all the time. Like we never would have dreamed that we have a community that we have right now. Well, and you also got to consider there's a small entertainment factor, like you guys are on your podcast, you guys are talking. It's fun to listen to you guys too. I hope that's more than small.

But people enjoy listening. Very sell. And people enjoy listening because they also enjoy listening. And one of the things that we did when we first started and we still do it, now we open the episodes and you're walking into a conversation and many times it's us bullshitting and it's inappropriate And it's sometimes it's hilarious A lot of random sexual stuff. Yeah, whatever. I mean, it's all it's no holds bar We've been called a you know how it's turned a fitness many times

But we have a lot of people not listening because they like the entertainment aspect of it And then guess what happens after 10 15 20 episodes don't send us a message like you know I like to listen to you guys your total douchebag you guys were funny and then guess what happens after 10, 15, 20 episodes. They'll send us a message like, you know, I like to listen. You guys are total douchebags. You guys were funny. And then it came back. Yeah, but now I'm starting to exercise now and I'm starting to do, it's like, yes. Yes, we're connecting with some people

who may not have listened to this message before. So. Well, it's like when I first started listening to you, it was the same thing. I don't know if I can get on with these guys. Like, it's like, broy, but like, there's something I just can't let go. I got like, gotta stay with them. Like, there's something I like about them. And it's like broy but like there's something I just can't look like I got to stay with them like there's something to like about them and it's

just that piece of like you're kind of you're catering to so many different people in your audience and and I like I'm glad I stuck with you guys because you guys are hilarious but it was yeah and here we are but I mean I think that's the piece too is like you're not trying to be to sell anything there's no agenda behind it I mean I feel like that's why people love us too, is just like, we're not trying to preach anything. We're just being ourselves. We want to welcome people into our world.

Which is hard as fuck when you need to make money. That's true. It's hard. It's why we save both half-full time jobs. Yeah, and you know what? Just get out the distance. Just get out the distance. And that shit, you know, the people that are given

really good messages out there, you know, just, man, it's tough to make money in the fitness health industry without selling. So cool. Yeah. Yeah, and we'll get folks who, you know, we're trying to schedule interviews with and they're like, I got 11 a.m. open on Thursday and we're like, we both work nine to five. You're like, this is not our job. And people are like, wait, really? It's like, yeah, no, we just have all day to give you free shit and all kinds of information. I don't know where you think I'm earning money off of this, but I'm not one of those people

who just gets paid to exist. When do you guys meet to do your podcast? Anytime we have free time. Sometimes on Skype, typically it's Monday or Tuesday nights and then we spend our miles goes to bed. After miles goes to bed and then we spend our night on bed. And you guys are mad at us one then. You don't even have a set time always for it.

Wow. Wow. I think we were thinking about our schedules and our dynamic is like we'll just text each other like can you do tonight great? Yeah, now you're consistent though with what you released though, right? I read there's a yeah, you're consistent with that over 200 episodes now you guys Can you guys just sit down and do a podcast? Oh, yeah, okay? That's the secret right there people have asked us how the hell do you guys Put on a story episode yeah Like how do you do for episodes a week

and like we literally sit down and go? Yeah. Yeah. My husband all the time, like, what do you guys talk about today? I'm like, I don't know. I don't feel so bad for today. This is me when that was so mad at me when I come home

and she's like, you just talk for a fucking three hours straight. You can't give me five minutes of conversation. Would you talk? I'm like, just listen to God down. My wife isn't listening at all. You listen to the show, you're going to find out tomorrow talk? I'm like, just listen to God damn thing. My list isn't listen to it all. You listen to the show, you're gonna find out tomorrow. Hey God, thank God.

What's the answer I gave you two years ago? Same answer. I don't know when we talked about. Oh, I don't feel so bad, you know. And then we text. Yeah, and then we text constantly throughout the day and her husband's always like, what do you guys possibly have to talk about

on top of the podcasting? So really, we get, we joke that our podcast is basically just like putting a mic up to our just ongoing life on conversation, which is helpful. Yeah, that's it. What got you guys started into podcasting? Why did you guys start? I was listening to podcasts like way before they were

popular. I was kind of like the OG grandma that was like, just listening to the five podcasts that were out there. And there were, yeah, Ben Greenfield was there. Yeah, tell us who you were listening to. Ben Greenfield, Rich Roll was out there and been really filled with you were really filled. Rich Roll was out there. The Wadcast guys were like the first

CrossFit S podcast. Barbel Shrugged was up. And then there was like a bunch of running podcasts, which is really where these guys, they still actually podcasts I believe. Two goamers. And then like MPR.

So there's a bunch of things. And then there was a couple women's like two women podcast, two women things. And then there was a couple women's, like two women podcasts, two women hosts. And I just loved kind of the autobiographical nature that they had so they are always talking about their lives. And so I knew what I liked to listen to. And I was like, man, there's just nothing really out there

for women in CrossFit. And at the time, I was like really, really, I'm still am, but really, really into CrossFit. And so Claire and I worked out together at the same gym. We both wrote blogs at the time and I just approached her one day. We weren't really even friends. We were more acquaintances and we're like,

you wanna start a podcast? And you know. She asked me, do you listen to podcasts? I was like, I listen to Car Talk. Like is that a podcast? She was like, no. Now did you guys grow fast at first? Or was it right?

We still aren't growing fast. It was just a consistent. It's just consistent, you know, I think the first. Word of mouth. Right. And the first couple, I mean months year, we still just felt like it was like my mom and like my husband sometimes. And and it's still to this day is like interesting. You know, we had our 200th episode two weeks ago. We had a party and we brought, you know, about a hundred people are so came in. It was like, oh my gosh. And people like flew in. We flew in from Canada.

Yeah, and we were like, wow, there are people out, and you're sitting in your studio or for us, it's a spare bedroom, and it's, because it is sort of, I mean, it's a priority in our life, but it's not like the focus of our life, that sometimes we forget that it has grown to the point that it's at, and we're still definitely, not one of the most popular packets out there,

but we're still the only women in our space. You guys would grow five times faster, right? This moment. If we posted it before and after photo. No, if you actually, if you just started doing it twice, three times, then four times a week. Hey, you don't understand what you, what you just said. Like when would I do that? Like, well, yeah.

It's that, it's that job that needs to be made, and I'll tell you right now, what you just said is exactly pressure. Okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I mean, like podcast wise, like you want people, especially the generation coming up, the binge, look how Netflix is. Yeah. You want to be able to get it and you want all that as much as you possibly can. And that's what's going to share you and get you grow. You guys have what you guys have it. Yeah. I want more. You want emails of people being like, of course, binge done all too much. Come on. It was more. I mean, that's not you guys are crazy. Yeah, I know what's on my face. Oh my God, I had to go there.

I mean, you were expecting it from me. I'm surprised it's taking those lines. I don't, I mean, I had to warm up to you guys. You've been, I know. But, you know, at the same time, you guys have the ability to just sit down and podcast. Right. There you go.

I mean, it may not be that hard to throw out, you know, to just double it to another episode. Now you're gonna get all these messages. I know. I know. It's good. No, we love it. Hashtag more episodes.

And that's the thing. It's like at first we were like, well, Claire and I just, I swear it's, it was just a match made in heaven that we got to do this together because our schedules always line up. We've never missed a week. We missed one week actually for her wedding. And we constantly just say, well, as long as it's fun, and as long as we keep getting feedback that we should still do this, we're gonna keep doing it. And just when we have a bad day or a bad week,

or like, should we keep doing this? We'll get some amazing email from someone. It's great. It's like, you changed my life, where I was so depressed, and I just listened to you to laugh, and you got me through a really hard time, or thank you for talking about post-potter depression. No one talks about this or you name it

and we're just like, in tears, like, okay, we need to keep doing this. How was it going through that while having a podcast, the post-partum? Was that therapeutic for you to be able to talk about it? I don't think I really talked about it. She did talk about it. She did talk about it.

She was out of it. And I think more because I didn't, who is the talk about it? Is it Bernie Brown who talks about like you can't talk about a traumatic experience until you're through it. Because it's just too raw. You're still figuring it out yourself.

You're going through it. And it makes people uncomfortable. When you're not. And I think there's a middle ground. They're like, there's something to say about just raw emotion and saying like, hey, I'm in this right now and like, I wanna share this with you guys. But when it's something as serious about just raw emotion and saying, like, hey, I'm in this right now, and I wanna share this with you guys. But when it's something as serious as being suicidal,

that's not something that I wanna go through that journey with thousands of other people. Yeah. And so I think the first time I really talked about it was, I don't even, probably last summer. I don't even remember the first time I talked about it, but it has been great in the sense that, so I ended up in an intensive therapy program.

It wasn't something that I just got through on my own. It was medication and all this stuff, but then coming out on the other side of it and talking about it has been in a way, we have a lot of people who write to us and we talk about, we have had eating disorder experts on the show several times and we'll get people who say, I never, like, I never realized the extent of my eating disorder until I heard your episode and now I'm going to go get help.

And the same thing with postpartum depression where people will say, I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know what to call it until I heard this. And, you know, they'll say like, it just is so helpful to know someone else is out there with that. And I feel the exact same way. You know, having that feedback works exactly the same way the other side where I feel more normalized. And so in that way, it's really helped me

let go of the guilt of postpartum depression. And feel like, okay, this is not just a fluke that I went through. And just because I had a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby and blah, blah, blah, it doesn't say something about me as a person that I had to go through this because look at all these other people

who have written to me and And said the exact same story. Yeah, a lot of people don't realize when you're going through a traumatic, a traumatic experience that there's Help that you get while you're in the traumatic experience, but when you come out of it There's a lot of work to be done. You had mentioned guilt or just the thoughts afterwards or even it don't letting it become a You know post-traumatic stress issue itself, or you continue to relive it. I actually went through a divorce. I was married 15 years and went through a divorce while we're doing the podcast.

I found it extremely therapeutic to be able to talk about it because talking about it and knowing that people are listening actually made me hear myself a little differently. I think sometimes we're in something. We're not very aware of how we're behaving like if we're angry or irritable and we lash out at somebody. It's hard for us to see that, oh, I was acting like an asshole or whatever. But when I'm talking on a microphone to people, to this podcasting will accelerate social awareness.

Oh, I mean, you know, I was, it's like you're processing while I'm on air and it's helping me process and luckily I'm a share. I like to talk about things anyway. So it was just. Right, it forces you to take a step back and look at it objectively. Oh, it was, I mean, I tell you what, if it wasn't for this podcast, it would have been a lot.

It was, it's always difficult, but it would have been a lot, a lot worse if I didn't have this outlet to be able to talk about those things. So what are some of the more difficult, have you guys ever gotten criticisms from fans? Where you get messages and they're like, you suck. We talk about this, we've had this question a lot

and it's really funny because as of yet, knock on wood, we really haven't had a ton of criticism. Which I think also goes to show you that we're still kind of small. Yeah, exactly. I don't think that we used to say the same thing. Yeah. We used to say the same thing all the time

and it's not that you can't look in for it. That's kudos to you for your message. Because you know what? Those ones that grow the fastest, like explode overnight, go viral because of a picture or something they said, mainly controversial. They are. And then they're going to attract that type of person. The people that you're attracting are.

Well, I almost look at it as like, you know, there's that old kind of saying that you don't sue a doctor that you like, even if they mess up, where it's kind of like, people might hear something that we say and disagree with it or feel like it's, you know, it busts up against what they believe, but they know us and they know that we're coming from a place of good intent.

And so since they have that trust, they don't feel, instead of feeling offended, they look at it as like, and we have had, I mean, around the election, we posted a couple things that were, you know, it was a world event, we had to react. We had to react. And we had some political events.

Oh, you guys are political? We had like, we're like one social group. Oh boy, I made a... It's actually third rail. Oh my gosh. We have like, Snapchat had my nasty woman t-shirt or something. Oh, man. But like, and so we had people who reached out to us

in really respectful, like I was shocked how respectful people were of like, hey, just remember there are some of your listeners who are happy, you know, about the election. And we just, you know, we're feeling a little alienated right now. And I was like, okay, great. That is so like, if you're going to say something, that's the way to do it. And I think the only time, and we joke about this all the time, that we've had like a quote unquote negative review, well, one time, somebody was like, all they did was talk about her baby.

I'm like, I did just had a baby. Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put it. But, all right, but get there to some. You bitch, selfish baby. There's baby Adam's macros. Right, and the other time, if someone was like, there's no technical information on this podcast, it's just conversation.

And we were like, that's a positive review, actually. Like, that's what we're doing for. We are not the technical podcast. Yeah, it was one star. I was like, they don't talk about training at all. And we're like, yeah. At our show. Yeah.

Yeah. We'll go to mind pump. Yeah. There you go. That's awesome. Now, we enjoy the feedback. We've had some negative reviews. We had a few of them.

Not a ton, but we've had a few of them. Yeah. I had one early on that bothered me. That's right. And it was tough, but only because the way it was said, like they really fucking hit me. Like, they were like, I like, it was just me. Well, it wasn't even like, it was just me.

It was literally like, this is how shitty it was. It was, I like, sell a lot because of this, this and that. I like, just a lot because this is the, Doug is a great producer. God, Adam, soxable. So it was like, it wasn't even bad about the show. It was very directed. Well, and then, and I'm pretty sure

is what a reason they gave. And this is why it bothered me so much. Because at that moment, I was going through that I was feeling very conflicted with this character that I was kind of portraying on the show. And it was, is it really all of me, feeling like I need to exaggerate parts of me to create that dynamic between us.

I struggled with that and that was like my first, you know, feeling that someone made me really look at that and go like, oh God, you know, that's not me. Like the part you hate most about me is least about me. It's like me, you know, so that really, I struggled with that, but it was good. It was great for growth and it's incredible. Oh, no, stop though, but like that's totally them projecting their shit on to you.

Of course, of course. That's why I don't think as trainers, you guys probably get that all the time is like people projecting their shit onto you because they're insecure about whatever, whatever. And yeah, all the time. Well, I'm interested in your assessment of us, by the way. I know you have one. Oh, yes. I. I'm interested in your assessment of us, by the way. I know you have one. Oh, yes. I was kind of happy.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm actually. No, don't. No. She's like, yes.

Okay. So, from listening from the beginning, Justin, I feel like was super, super shy. And like, I know that you had a hard time getting out of your shell. My assessment is like, you've really. Terro Cari. I know, my assessment of you is. I'll put my palms out. Yeah.

But it's more of like, I know you guys as individuals. I'm not going to go into each individual one, but I feel like as individuals, you guys have grown together so much. And it's cool to see this has happened with Claire and I. Is you have grown, your dynamic has grown, and I feel like you guys have influenced each other so much in such a positive way.

It's just really cool to see, but I mean, I can go into total psycho-babbled, but I don't think your listeners wanna hear that. We actually do. We had a pretty crazy energy reading with Paul Check, just so you know. What did he say? Oh, yeah, wait, you'll see.

Oh, is that.... Oh is that okay? Oh is that okay? Okay, yeah. So it's fair game. Yeah. No. I think they want to hear it Joy. I do.

I mean, just like, okay, so what I think. She's like, I don't know how to lie. No. You got to put on the therapy hat. Well, like some of it goes, like, because I'm such a therapist of heart, it goes to like deeper stuff too. So I don't like out your business, but'm like oh absolutely out. I know that like you had a really hard upbringing some like I always think about that And like my heart goes out to you like I wish I want you at some point to share like more of that experience

Because I feel like a lot of people need to hear that of like what you went through as a kid Can I can I share some of you on that point? point? So this is actually something that I know which is hard. That's something that you can't, I don't just divulge without someone asking or diving into that. I'm an open book when it comes to that stuff. And I've always have been, and I know that within my community

before we did podcasting, I had affected a lot of people that way because tons of people have stowed that story. You know what I'm saying? So, don't discount that though. Well, I'm not discounting it because- They're a pie, Sam. No, no, no, no, I'm not at all. I'm not at all. I know. But I know that it's, and that's where I, because I don't share it enough, I know that people don't know my full story. But once you do and then you know how I handle it and I share it. I know I need to do more of it It's hard because I need these guys to ask it or I need a guest to ask something like that

I don't want what I don't want to turn this into is the show about Adam and how Adam's growth and his journey Yeah, I'm cuz like cuz that's not mine pump That's not mine. That's a flavor. And it's a part of mine pump Yeah, but I mean it's the whole this is not like let's let's hear Adam's not mine. That's a flavor and it's a part of mine, pump. Yeah, but I mean. That's not all, this is not like, let's hear Adam's story and where he came from completely. Do you not feel like that's important though to like building the trust?

I don't know, could be, maybe. I just think about it. Yeah, no, we're gonna ask you like crazy now. Yeah, no, now you get me, now it's gonna be Adam's therapy, fucking mind, pump real soon here. Well, and let me just say this too, because I feel like I've wanted to say this to you

since I started listening and heard that, I don't know, do you wanna say what happened to you as a kid? Like, I know people know, but do you want me to say it? Well, no, actually, I'd rather hear your perception of it, because I know I've said it and shared it on the show, and I talked about it. I'd like to hear how. Well, no, and this is Joyce, like, HIPAA,

coming in of like, she doesn't want to like talk about people. I'm like, I can't like, she's like, so like, even with the two worlds in my life don't collide. Even though like, that with me, she'll, I mean, we talk all the time. Like, this is not just like her, this is like her therapist mind and like HIPAA mind being like, I don't want to like expose your stuff for you.

I can't take this as like a bomb, yeah. I see. Like, you need to expose your own life. And it's not like getting too deep, but like, you lost your is like a bad yeah. I said I said I need to expose your own and it's not like getting 2D but like you lost your father at a young age. So I feel like you could have done one of two things. You could have gone like Batchek crazy and had like really difficult life but you created an amazing life for yourself and I know that you were like really straight edge and like you were you can't in a way I feel like that was your control, right?

You took control and that's what you needed to do to like keep things together and your mom had an abusive relationship, et cetera, and like you projected into this amazing person. And I just want you to hear like how profound that is, that you don't, that doesn't happen every day. When someone has that much trauma in their life, and I know that you look back and you're like,

well, I did what I needed to do. I survived and I like made it work. And whatever you had supports around you, but like, that doesn't happen easily. This is where the confidence comes from, but this is also where the other side of that confidence, where I look sometimes to the first person when they first meet me as cocky or arrogant. And so bragging about where I, where I, where I'm, and I,

I don't have to brag, but even sharing in, and too much on a, on a platform like this could come off that way in a world where we're, we're virtual. And you do see and perceive what you want to see because you see what my Instagram or this. And then you get on my show and then I tell you like my story all the time, it can come off that way. And I've had feedback. Well, I think of it's genuine. I don't think you're well, and that's where it has to be organic. It needs to be organic.

And I get that. I get that. You're never going to get me. And I 100% respect what you're saying. And I agree with you. And I've thought about this for Katrina. Katrina, if you guys get a chance to meet her this weekend, she'll tell you this is a conversation we had behind closed doors many, many times is I would tell

her that man, I need the boys to talk more about the stuff I don't like to talk about because I know that more people will grow from watching me have to grow in front of all of you and I'm okay with that. I'm down to do that, but there's a way to do that and there's a way not to do that. And the way not to do that is to come off preaching about it or presenting, I know better than to do that. And it will naturally happen. And I like to, when I see more than I like, I like to meet and have relationships with people

that underestimate me. I love that. I like that advantage, and I'm okay with that advantage. I don't need to, I don't need to I don't need to feel I the old me What used to tell my story all the time because it was what I had a chip on my shoulder and that's what motivated me But I came full circle on that a long time ago that I don't need that for myself And I think if me I could come off preaching like I I'm it's self-serving because I need my ego to be fed and Told how great I am and what a great story I have.

I know that. I don't need to hear it from anyone else. And if I'm really gonna help somebody, it'll organically happen. Somebody like you will ask me a question and we'll talk all day. I'm gonna open book, you can talk to me on there. But I think my point is,

because I don't want this to get all serious. I don't know how to do that. But it is. It's like, do you know how profound that is? Do you know how, like, do you know how profound it is to get to that point? No, do you really? I do. And I know, I know all the numbers and statistically how rare that is and where I fall.

And that, okay, when I went in, you know what, you know what? You know my statistical challenge was heading into competing as a 30 year old man who's never competed at that level built a physique, do it with no coach, and make it all the way the pro, you know, I know that. That's what, that's me, man. I feed right into that personality. And I went into that the same way I go into life, but I know how to turn that on and off. And that's, but I think, but I think my point is that you shouldn't feel like that's something that you're like bragging about. I think it's just like just acknowledge like that was fucking hard. And you like not many people can get to where you are now.

Well, can you agree that there's a way to do that and there's a way not to do that? And there's a fine line between the two. Yeah. Okay. So that's where I am at constantly with that. Like I, I think it isn't cool. I think the more, and right now, so we just this last week,

we had a magazine interview us, another podcast interview us. We haven't done a lot of interviews where people come on our show and they ask our story. Most of what we share on MindPump is more about the things that, you know, when we do share our stories individually, but it doesn't, I don't want to, just like none of these guys want to take the whole show where it's about, I mean, sounds got a fucking crazy story. Justin's got a crazy story. We all do and we feel like we give bits of that when it's right. And if the boys ask more because you said something like that,

I think I know how these guys are so self-aware. The next one of these times, Sal will see the right opportunity when we're talking about something and he'll have me share. And that's great feedback from you. And I think everybody could learn from that. But it's a fine line then from that and me talking about it and just putting it out there all the time because it is a great story and it's very motivating and a lot of people can learn from it and it's a piece of me and you learn more about me.

I get why it's good and why we should do more of it for sure. I 100% agree with you. Okay. I think that's kind of like where our message is definitely a diverge because for us like that's the priority right is like We want to get to know you as a person. We want to know what drives you and we want that from our audience You want that from our guests like we want to know how did you get to where you are and for us? That's what the missing piece is in fitness and in and in health and in lifestyle is to learn like what drives you and then how can we How can we speak to that? And so for us, sitting here hearing you say

like that's not what my pump is about. Like for me, in any situation where you're trying to build trust with your audience, it should be about that just from my perspective. And I think for us, it's like that's kind of what we've built our brand, if you will, on is like being that open book unprompted to give other people the confidence

to own their own stories as well. Because if people out there are, if they are waiting to kind of honor their own story because they feel like, well, I need to be asked, people just must not be interested if they're not asking. That means it's not valuable. For us, it's kind of like, be upfront about it. Like, stand there and shout, like,

this is my story and this is who I am and this is where I am today. And I don't know, I think that that builds a lot of confidence and provides a lot of freedom for people. We do, we talk about, I mean, it's not a subject. We don't shy away from really any subject. It's just, if the conversation goes there, it does.

I'm not aware of what you're talking about. That's why you know, right? That's why you know about it because Adam's talked if the conversation goes there. Oh, I'm not it with, I'm not it with, I'm not your note, right? That's why you know about it because Adams talked about it on several episodes. So it's not an area we shy away from. We don't, I mean, again, we talk about pretty much anything. It just depends on where the conversation's gonna go. Well, and to the same point,

you're not gonna come on our podcast and hear like any of the technical stuff. And so it's just a different, and this is not, you know, that was not a criticism. It's just saying like, I think that's, you know, very much the difference in our messages. I think it's incredible advice. I got an opportunity when we first started the podcast

to talk with the, the president of all the podcast for Fox. My buddy, Brendan was connected to him, no, and put us in contact. It was really cool. We were super small. We just started. So there was in my head, and of course in my head I was hoping like I could build this relationship, and maybe these guys would acquire us, and we'd have all this funding, and it'd be awesome. But in reality, like we were nowhere near that level for it'd be on their radar. But he did spend the time talking with me and giving me feedback on our show. And one of the things that he drove home to me was that the more of you guys in your story,

you can share, the more people will want to listen and it will grow. And so we definitely try and do that a lot. It's very much so in the conversation. And I think if we all felt like we try our too to listen to our audience and what they're needing the most at that time and if our message is getting a certain direction and they won't. So we do our best to do that. I think you and I are connected,

so you feel like you wanna hear more of my story and I like that. It makes me feel good inside. It makes me feel good inside. So I appreciate that. But I'm definitely very, very business minded, number-minded, analytical, and I dive into all the different stuff and then what we talk about and how our audience responds.

And, you know, if I felt these guys weren't asking it, I would tell Sal or I'd tell Justin and they would do it for sure. And I'm sure they will now a little bit because you've said that. Yeah. I also want to know, like, this is something we talk about a lot on our podcast is you guys are all in relationship.

So how do you balance your relationships with all this? But we also like to talk about marriage hacks or relationship hacks. And like, for example, mine would be don't get married. Yeah. Kitcheners. We've heard that one before. Kitcheners would be so mad.

Yeah, we've heard that one before. I'm just kidding, honey. We guys spend that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before.

We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. We've heard that one before. when I come home from work, I'm super introverted. So I've been doing the therapy all day and just hearing people's stories or just dealing with people all day. And I wanna come home and I want my brain to completely shut off. So as an introvert, you really need to just have silence

and my husband works from home. And so when I come home, he's like, oh my gosh, it's a lot, it wants to talk to me. So I go hide in the bathroom and that's our joke. Cause for me to go hide in the bathroom so he doesn't bother me. So I get my 10 minutes of secret. So I get away hide in the bathroom and like that's our joke is like for me to like go hide in the bathroom So he doesn't bother me so I get like my 10 minutes of secret like Yeah, so so what what was yours to? We have some really good ones with our husbands, but like is there and like this is all out of love

This is not like because you're like trying to avoid them Yeah, mine are all have to like arrange things sometimes in relationships. Yeah Minor all around like how I ask questions I have been like so what's the plan for this as opposed to like what the fuck is that? Yeah, I know that strategy. Yeah You know what so having bid I was married for 15 years divorced Met someone that was absolutely amazing and when you go through a process like divorce, especially a long relationship, I think you can either come out of it and not change,

which I think is a travesty, or you can look back and be like, okay, what did I do that contributed to that, and how can I change those things? Was there a part that you felt like you never, well, was there ever a time where you didn't feel like you were doing anything wrong? In while I was in it, only because I was so focused on what the other person was doing

wrong, that you don't look at what you could possibly be doing wrong. And it's usually, there's usually a piece on both sides. Not always. There's relationships where one side is completely horrible, new sides, you know, not a fault at all. But one of the things that I, one of the things that I- That's rare, though. One of the things that I really objectively looking back, really learned was that you can't expect the other person to be psychic.

Like, I can't come home and expect that person to know that I want them to be this way, or that I don't want to talk right now because I'm tired. I have to be able to communicate that. And after I communicate it, then the ball is in their core and it's up to them then to treat me with a certain level of empathy or whatever. And what you find when you do that

is people are much more empathetic than you think. But expecting them to know right away, like I'm not in the mood for conversation or I'm kind of irritable right now or I'm really stressed out, expecting them to know it and then when they don't, being angry that they don't know it,

like that's just not fair. Oh yeah, and then you're like, we're not meant to be together. Yeah, you're just not fair. You be shocked. You can't read my mind. Because you can't read my mind. Exactly, you be shocked when you tell the person,

I'm really stressed out right now. It's making me feel kind of irritable. It's just how empathetic they are to it and how things work out better. And of course, on the flip side, if you don't say anything, you end up getting a major fight. And then you're angry because,

oh, I can't, they know I'm stressed out that they know that this is going on at work and what I'm dealing with and all these different things. Like half the things I see in couples therapy is the other person thinks that if you would only change, then it would make my life easier. It's like, that's not how it works. Yeah, no, not at all.

The other thing for me was finding someone who had a similar, similar passions or similar interests. And, you know, I know the whole opposite's attract, you know, thing. And I don't know how true that is, but when you can share something, and you have to have your own things too, let me be clear. You do your own stuff too. I mean, do everything to them, but it's great when you share something that you both have a passion for, whether it

be hiking or for us, it's, you know, working out together. Because now we can go do something that we enjoy, but also spend time together and grow with it. And so it's just, it's like we're going on a date every day when we go workout. It's really cool. So that's one of my hacks. Who's next? Justin.

The merry guys probably should go in order. You see how much I like serious conversation. I was over there napping. It's like, what an asshole, dude. It's born his heart out over here, and you're over there fucking napping. Wake up. I'm so scared.

No. As far as like my wife's relationship in mine, it's, I feel like I'm from like the 1950s or something. And that's probably why I don't chime in all the time because there's struggles and there's a lot more realness. I feel with communicating, divorce and the process and you know, and like I don't know.

I just a lot of times I guess I withhold some of my relationship with my wife on the show because it just feels like Tell me about her in jelly tell at least is like 1950s. I love Lucy or like I guess that's a bad I just mean that like She's very funny, but like super witty. Yeah, but we're very much the same person but the way that we think is completely opposite. So she uses like, she's a nurse and so she, she's always, is that left brain sound or

right? The analytical, the analytical side. Yeah, I think science is showing it's not. I'm the other. Let's just put it that way. Whatever she is, it's not. I'm the other. Let's just put it that way. And whatever she is, you're out of it. Very creative. I'm just talking out of my ass and trying

to make people laugh sometimes. And for her, everything has to be this protocol. I wash the dishes wrong. Everything I do is wrong. And I just, you know, as far as the order of things. And so our friction a lot of times is based off of that because it's just like, oh no, like I'm not doing this good, so I'm not gonna do it.

And yeah, that's a problem, you know, because now I'm not contributing. And I'm not thinking of her and supporting her and you know, we get into this. This is like always the. It's a catch 22. Yeah. And then you feel like I can't do anything right.

Yeah, I can't do anything right, but I just, I really want to contribute, you know you feel like I can't do anything right. Yeah, I can't do anything but I just I really want to contribute You know, I like and I'm always clean like we have different ticks like so the floors have to be like super clean And I know that that's her thing and so I'm always trying to help with that But my thing is like the clutter like everywhere like I have to have it organized and I'm just like God it just drives me crazy Like I have to have it organized and I'm just like, God, it just drives me crazy.

But, and you've got two small boys. And we got two small boys that love to just destroy everything anyway. So I've had to like, I've had to calm down with the order, right? I want control. Like that's something I can control is like, having my place look a certain way and having things

in certain places. And so that's been a challenge for me to, you know, identify that and then try to communicate that to my wife challenge for me to identify that and then try to communicate that to my wife. Here's things that, and these are all really small things. We've got into things with sex. We've gotten to things after, she's been pregnant.

Real struggles with that. Her being on birth control, and this is something that's like, she's not having the same drive because what she's on on and so we've we've We've you know, there's been like a lot of talk with like how we're gonna like approach this and move forward and it's been real You know on that end of it. So um, but you know, it's it's it's it's she's like the perfect fit for me. So it's hard for me to like I don't know express some kind of like bullshit fight because it's just for me

It's all just we we work on it like we go our separate ways to come back We work on it and that's like our relationship. That's a damn. Let's start relationship Yeah, it's a dance. It's exactly how it goes. Anyway, it's like when you're both in you're in you're not gonna be like I don't know I think that's totally normal like all that and you see it as all normal, and you're both committed to it. So it's like, all right, this is our bullshit. So everyone has it. Yeah.

Now does being a therapist make you just super effective at arguing then with your husband or? Oh, he hates it. He hates it. We can't argue because- So it's ninja powers. Yes. He thinks everything I say is a play.

So it's really funny. Like it's taken us some time to like get to a point where I'm like, I'm really not trying to use therapy tricks on you right now. So yeah, he hates it because every time we we talk he's like you're just trying to jet a mind trick me. I know it. It sounds like conversations Katrina and I have a lot of time. So I'm lucky and blessed. I mean I found a unicorn. Took me 30 years but it's Starbucks. Yeah, one of those. She is unbelievably very, very special. And the biggest thing about her that I didn't think would ever exist was finding somebody

who actually knows me better than I know myself. And I pride myself on being a very self-aware individual. So I didn't think that was possible. I didn't think that was possible. I didn't think it was possible that someone could truly understand me to the level that I understand myself. To the point that she's the only person who I feel I can really call me on my bullshit,

because she gets where I come from. She gets me on another level that the level of growth that I've had just as a human being by having a relationship with her for six years has been just, I mean, you talk about listening to our growth in the show. I mean, a big part of my evolution is also the relationship that I've had with her for the last six years because we will have dialogue like that, like we're having right now behind closed doors all the time.

And she's constantly challenging my ego and making me think about it and look. And so having a woman that does that is like, and this is what when people say that cliche, saying that you, oh, you wanna find someone who makes you a better you, but how many people really truly find someone that makes them a better you? In fact, most relationships, people talk about

what a burden the other partner is or how much they have to carry or they're constantly nagging about something they're doing. Like, I generally know that I come home that I, without her, I'm less of a man for sure because of her ability to help see into me better than anybody ever has. Yeah.

How long have you both been married? Nine years. So you're nine and you're recent, right? Yeah, how long have I married? Three and a half years, baby? Three and a half years. Yeah. So you're in the fun. No, you had a baby. So now it's getting

hard. It's hard to tell. That's right. Yeah, we just kind of dove right in. Yeah, we've been together for four or seven and a half years. And yeah, and we've been, I think, we kind of always bring joy and I always talk about this. The amount of life change that I've been through in the last four years is we have moved every single year. Brandon's been in and out of school. I've changed jobs three times. I've gotten my masters. We've had a baby.

We've moved again. Anyway, so we've kind of gone through the gauntlet. When I met Brandon, we were both raft guides in Moab. And didn't have a pot or a pan door names. And so there's just basically have become adults together, in Moab and didn't have a pot or a pan to our names and so there's just, you know, basically have become adults together, which has been really hard.

You know, if I could give you a life hack that, you know, because I know I said Katrina's a unicorn, one of the parts that makes sure that is that, well, if we see something, like some sort of a state change because of someone like someone's mad, someone's overly excited, someone's not energy isn't level, like we feel that amongst each other right away

and then we'll put it on the table, like, you know, what the fuck's your deal? You know, what's your deal? And let's, let's, Do you say that exactly? No, literally, we will. Yeah, we, we're at that, well now six years ago. What you do first, we got to that level, right?

You know, it didn't just overnight happen where you could talk to each other like that, but we respect each other so much that if she stops me in my track to self-reflect, probably not doing something right, or there's something I can look deeper into. So we'll do that, and then there's things that, you know, I'll call out in her and she'll do the same thing to me, and then together we'll evaluate that, and it's really simple when there's communication that's there. Something that has created, and we went through this like, you know, first few years, of course, it's all awesome, it's all growth that's for everybody, right?

And then there's a point where, you know, you get to know each other so well that the thing you have to be careful of is almost like forgetting about all the things that you fell in love with that person for and the things that you were doing, the things you were into because life fucking happens, kids happen, careers happen, like shit happens, right? So how do you stay connected? Something that has kept us connected on another level than anything else was we began reading together. And we just chose, and you could do anything, like if you're a religious person, read whatever

book you're reading, if you're somebody who just wants to read and learn together, we typically like to choose a new book together. We say, look the topic that we want to learn about or know information about. We agree on it. We put it on the audible and we make sure that minimum once a week that we do that. So we stake it. And then what the dialogue that comes from making us be present and it's, it's, I mean, because what happens when you get a personality that like myself and you find a partner who actually, you know, can handle you, she runs just as hard and fast as I do and we respect that of each other, but we also respect how that could allow you to grow apart. So we've had to put in thing, life or marriage type hacks to make sure that we stay grounded and connected to each other. And one of those that has been

a game changer for us was for sure, you know, making that commitment to each other to do that. It's unbelievable what it's done on a growth level individually and as a partnership. So if I can give a piece of my whole call that say lu watch is avatara where they have the little thing and then they connect. She did it. She said I was done. What are your hacks for dealing with one another? With each other? Yeah, I was, you read my mind. I was actually in a, I was like,

oh wow. Well, yeah. Yeah. Shout-out to the best of it. No, well, okay, it's a nice quiet place. Yeah. I, I'll tell you what's, I'll turn out the sound.

I'll tell you what's, it's difficult when you have three leadership-minded individuals who are trying to work together. Because you all consider yourself like alpha personality. Absolutely, yeah, 100%. And I'm not saying I can even consider myself that. No, all the heads nodding, yes. I'm looking to our resident alpha,

alpha omega, introvert, extrovert, expert over here in the corner. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely are introvert, extrovert, expert over here in the corner. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely are. And so under normal circumstances, I guess that would be very difficult, right? When you have a bunch of alphas trying to work together and people would compete or whatever. I think, you know, maybe if we were in our 20s, I don't know if it would have worked,

but now we all have a similar goal. And we all also are self-aware enough to know when one of us is better at something than we are and we're okay with that. We're okay with someone taking the lead because we understand what the goal is. The other thing too is there's very few people I trust or at least I feel comfortable enough allowing to let me know when I'm being an idiot or when I'm doing something wrong or whatever. And I do that with them very easily, very easily I respect them and it's okay for them to

say that and it's not easy to hear and acknowledge that but I also acknowledge it's coming from these guys and I respect them so much. You know the intention. Yeah, you know, you know, we're all about and you know it's only going to make us better. So yeah, it is tough at times to get to get feedback, you know, we're all about and you know, it's only going to make us better. So yeah, it is tough at times to get, to get feedback, you know, from guys that you totally trust and respect and, and you know, sometimes there's hard conversations we have to have along those lines, but it always sharpens us. So, you know, that's, that's just part of the deal.

The good news is that we're all very growth minded. So that's what keeps us working well together is that we're always trying to grow. If we were all in here trying to compete, it would never work. We just had a situation, I think, not even a week or two ago where Sal and I got into it back and forth and just,

well, you know, each guy, like, like, Yell on his point. Yeah, on his point. And what is so awesome, and it's very similar to the dynamic that I have with Katrina as far as the communication piece is that not even two hours later, you know, he's texting me right away like, you know, hey, I just so you know, dude, I love when we get like that. It brings the best of us out because I know you come from a good place

and I come from a good place. It's about the business and it's not about each other's egos. And I love that you're that passionate about it and I'm so glad that I've found somebody else who's like that, we'll share that and then, because we ultimately want what's best for the business. So I think it's so silly when people get so angry at each other when you're debating over something that has related the business, it's just that,

you know, it's not, I hope he's right, we go, if we go his direction, I hope he's right, and if we go my direction, I bet his ass he hopes I'm right, there know, it's not, I hope he's right. We go, if we go his direction, I hope he's right. And if we go my direction, I bet his ass he hopes I'm right. There's not this like, I hope he's wrong. So I can say I'm right, fuck that, that's stupid. And whatever can get us there quicker, sometimes that type of dialogue, where we're speaking real passionately about things

where maybe we don't see eye to eye, normally what comes out of that's magical. And not being afraid to let that happen and then learn how to assess it after the dust settles. Mm-hmm. How are you guys's spouses with your podcast? They're great. Yeah, they're really good.

Do they listen? No. My husband does sometimes. I was thinking I was like, Scott just got to listen. No, sometimes he'll listen to like probably our 200 episode. But yeah, well, he was there when we recorded it. I would he need to listen to it. But yeah, my husband does and he,

but they're both so supportive. Like Brandon, well, if we're doing an interview, sometimes during the week we'll just do it on Skype, even if it's just the two of us, just so that she loves about 20 minutes away from me. So, you know, if it's in the middle of the week, rather than driving down, we'll just do on Skype. And so I, you know, work full time, the middle of the week, rather than driving down, we'll just do on Skype. And so I work full time, my kids

and daycare full time. And so my husband knows that that evening time with my son is really important to me. And so he'll go in and set up my computer and boot up Skype and get everything set up for me just so I can have that time to put my eyes to bed rather than having to say, okay, you know, you got this and I'm gonna go do my thing.

And he's just, yeah, he's incredibly supportive. He's, that's his personality type. Like he's in nursing school. He's just such, you know, like caregiver type of guy and just like that's really where I think he feels a lot of value in himself is like, if I could just write Brandon with one word, it would be helper.

And I come, I mean, not in the most respectful way, not in a way of like him, you know, only existing. Like, I need to do this. Yeah, no, not at all. It's like he all times is looking for like, how can I help these people? How can I help someone where they're at? How can I like before he went to nursing school? He was a mental health counselor for in the eating disorder unit at Children's Hospital. And so he worked with teenage girls basically who were, you know, in these these life crises and I would have spent one minute in that you know I'm in like y'all have problems. I am out of here and he just thrived in it

And so like he really just yeah is so such like a connector and a helper Yeah, and my husband shows his support by buying me workout clothes and Custom like you met cons Equipment for the podcast. No, he's he's the same. He just he lets us do our thing. I think you know They embrace it and there's times when obviously we have we have a lot going on and our schedules are busy But like they know how much we love it and so yeah, they're supportive you and you you guys record at your My house. Yeah, I have like a little studio in the back room spare bedroom. Is it the same? Is that the one you guys started in and that's where no, we actually started on the floor and the

other spare bedroom and we just like put the microphone on a milk crate and we sat on the ground and we just recorded in this bedroom and then we upgraded to actual microphones and a mixer board and then we went to the other guest room. So it's really kind of funny. I enjoy his grandma sewing table. Yeah. All right. Are you considering ever going full time into the pocket? That's the question. I would say we're going to have to have like Adam

consignate this. I know. I don't need another mask to speak. If you're okay with like, let's just record it and you can decide if you don't want to air your shit. I respect that, but let's get into the business talk. I think we talk about that maybe every month or so. We kind of visit that conversation. And I think to this day it's been,

hey, are you ready to have a conversation? Like not quite ready yet. All right, let's just keep going and so we can't we always touch base about it. And you know, before we started recording, we were talking about just objectively speaking. It would be very hard for me in the position that in my life right now to take that amount of risk and you know, with my husband in school and a new baby and we live above a garage and someone else owns, like, we are just financially in already a very risky place. And so to take a financial risk like that would be very unwise in my mind. Not to say that, you know, at the end of the day, it wouldn't be worth it, but that's the question is like,

what would we need to do to make that risk? How much do you struggle with that? A lot. And I think the other thing for me is, I never, no million years, would have thought, having no athletic background, would have thought that I would find my identity in the fitness industry. And so that also is part of, do I want to make that who I am?

And do I want to make that my career? I have a master's in environmental policy. My whole thing has been, I'm this outdoorsy girl, policy. Like my, you know, kind of whole thing has been like, I'm this outdoorsy girl. I wanna like go save the world. I wanna, you know, like save public lands. I wanna save the environment. Do am I ready to change?

Like who I think I am at my core? And not necessarily change it, but like, that's the most important question though. Yeah, what you're talking about right now is the most important question. But you have a platform where you can reach so many different people and you have to ask yourself like who's more influential or which side of you

would be more influential, the one working in some job or where you're communicating these ideas and able to connect with people. Because obviously you've guys have had a podcast for this long and built an audience without trying too necessarily, but you have, organic, and it's grown organically, you obviously have the ability to connect with people. So it's already there. The other thing too is you already have a large audience. In reality,

you have a full-time business if you want. It's right, it's already there. The hard part's done. And they want to support you in that. There's a lot of demand. I'll tell you something right now. There's huge demand already. Well, let me, don't hide. Let me, let me share you, let me share something with you that was very frustrating for me was that. Let it show or not. We waited, in my opinion, we waited longer than we should have to make that leap.

And, and I, but I understand, because guess what, I'm not the married one. I don't have kids. I don't have as much of a financial responsibility as these guys do. So of course, I'm the one who's most likely, let's jump, you know, let's do this. So I understood that I respected their decision,

but the reason why I still think it haunts us is we waited till we were comfortable. And to me, the best of us have came out when we were faced in struggle. So I wanted to see that dynamic with, I've never worked with so many brilliant like, man, on all levels, not just their intelligence level, like for business, for health and fitness,

for, good looking, good looking, right about that. And, I heard you, and how motivating they can be, and how powerful they are, and how influential they are.

And we, I feel like we didn't have to do that because we waited till we were comfortable. Yeah. And I think it would have brought the best out of us to have been put in the corner of, guess what, we might not be able to pay the bills next month if we just, if we don't turn this son of a bitch on now. And make it work.

And make it work. That's always the question, exactly that scenario. We always ask ourselves, do we want to have to be there? And would that change what we love about the podcast? And I think that's the, that is really the root question. It's like, if we got to that point where we were back to the corner and it was like, we have to monetize this or else, or we have to sell more programs or whatever it is,

otherwise we're out on the streets, is that going to change what we love and is that going to turn it into something that we would show? Which is very, very important. Having met you and listen to a few shows I don't think you guys could be disingenuous if you tried number one So I don't think anything would change you guys. I think if you did and turn to that struggle You probably communicated on your podcast and even talk about it, which is kind of what we do

Believe me people appreciate it But again, it's just because you're just being real just more content, but I'm telling you It's how we whip them out. You are a machine. You already have the audience. There's already a demand for something that you guys can offer. It's all I'm saying. You don't even have to think of, literally, you have an audience who's waiting for you to put out, I don't know, a program on post pregnancy exercise or a program on how we would do,

how to do CrossFit in your home or whatever you guys decide to do, there's already pent-up demand there and it would just happen, it's already there. It's all I'm saying, it's not like you'd have to leave your job. But I understand that question because that question is, that's different.

That's what matters because easily, not easily, but with a lot of hard work. Right, well, and I think we recognize that. It's like, we have, the opportunity is there, and that's why the question comes up as often as it does is because we recognize, we do have an incredibly supportive community. Who at the end of the day, I truly believe,

if we were like, hey guys, I'm not gonna make rent this month, they would be like, where do I send the chat? Yeah. And, which is amazing. And the fact that there are strangers out there who would do that for us is unrealists You know, it's unbelievable and unrealistic, I guess

but It it really comes under the question of like we have We've kept doing this because we love it and because we it's been what we want it to be and we are so Like wary of it turning into being about something other than just like, you know, the content that we want to create. Well, let me tell you what was the big indicator for each one of us individually was. At one point, we all, I remember everyone saying that I can't wait to get done with all the other

work that we're doing in the day so we can get together and podcast. And when that moment happened for all of us, then it was a no-brainer. When each of us were saying, all I think about is, what we're gonna do and talk about when we get together, I can't wait to get done doing this bullshit that I have to do to pay the bills right now, so I can talk about what I wanna do. Well, we always, I hope my boss never hears this, but we always are texting like,

probably 50% of what I do at my job is for the podcast. I'm like, on there, I have a standing desk and I like sit down in my cubes that I can write our newsletter, or whatever it is, or write our newsletter, or you know whatever it is, or update our website or whatnot. And yeah, I mean, it- You might have to go full-time now.

I know. Yeah. Awesome. You just did it to yourself. I know, right? My boss actually recently started following us on Instagram. I was like, oh no.

Yeah, she was like, so not that I'm stocking you or anything, but were you up at four o'clock this morning and I'm like, oh no. This is not good. It's not that I'm talking to you or anything, but were you up at four o'clock this morning and I'm like, oh no. This is not good. It's not good. I gotta stop snapping from a cue ball at time. Yeah, so I guess when that question is fully answered for you, I think then from there,

then we could share all day about some of the strategies. Like I feel like the first step that doesn't cost that much more of your time wouldn't take that much more commitment and how we kind of transitioned it was. We just went from doing two episodes a week to three and then to four and we would spend, instead of spending one and a half hours together, we were spending three to four hours

and we'd record them all. Well, and then I have about a two or three, how long was I that company? Two or three year background in content marketing. So all I did was like manage other people's content marketing businesses. So it's like these evergreen programs and these membership programs. It's like that is such a short leave for us because I did that professionally for three years for other

people. Oh my God. Wow. I know. Sounds like a crack. We're going to talk after that. You don't do this. Yeah. Are you saying you're going to take us under your wing if we? Oh my gosh. You have skills. We need to. I got the infusion soft certification. Oh, look at you. You just got you in Dugger. Dugger almost jumped out of the show right here. If you weren't married, I actually made Taylor marry you.

I already just for those reasons. We would do that. It's just to finish the kingdom. So we would do that. I would very fairly play her like that. Yeah. Very fair. Doug's awake. So looking ahead, what's in the future for you guys right now?

Well, you gave us a lot to think about. God, dammit. Episode 203, I guess. I don't know. We really have just taken it episode by episode. And I think that's why it's remained kind of, you know, that slow trajectory, but also, you know, Ben, something that we've been able to kind of stick with.

But I think, you know, we asked this question at our 200th episode party. And for me, the answer is, how do we connect with people, you know, to that, to that place of people sending us emails like, wow, you changed my life. And those moments are touch points that we, I can't ignore. And that really was what it comes back to for like, why do we do this? It's because even if we only get one email a year or even if we have ever only gotten one email of someone saying, you open my eyes to this, you changed my life, then that's to me is worth it. And how can we continue to find people in that place

and give them what they need? And whether that's more podcasts or whether that's programming or whether that's journaling or whatever it is, first of all, how do we reach those people and second of all, what do they want? And how do we give that to them in an organic, authentic way?

Without, and I think that's really the question is, how can we, if we were to go full time, how could we ensure that it would remain this authentic message that we've really, over the years, taken so much pride in cultivating? And I don't want, I wouldn't give that up. And so how can we like just... I don't think you would.

I don't think you would. I don't think you would. It's like a band that has a really good first record and then like, if they go off and they're like, everyone's like, produce more content and they're like, we don't know what we're doing. And then it's like shitty content. So it's like staying true to that,

like that piece we don't know. Get a good Indian, take some illusity. Exactly. We've got to do it like that piece we don't know. You're gonna go to India and take some illusity. Exactly. We gotta do it. With my gloves up. I mean, we have, it wouldn't be the first time we've been propositioned by Mike to do who's in Jennic.

For stories, yeah. We love Jennic. We love Jennic. Yeah, he does. Great guy. Great. That's a good guy. But I think the connection piece is what we're all looking for.

And so if we were to, you know, I think about this all the time, it's like we have this connection to our audience and we have something that we could potentially grow. But I don't want to just be pumping out content and facts. Or just like we were talking before we hit record, it's like we want it to be really just a natural conversation. And I'm always looking at the future of the podcast world, so where it's going and, you know, from someone who's listened to podcasts before they really blew up in iTunes and wherever

else. I want to stay ahead of the curve of, I hate just the back and forth interviews that are out there. We won't really do interviews anymore. And this is someone that we have a relationship with because there's nothing more that I hate than like listening to the same person on 10 different podcasts being interviewed, with the same bullshit that they say, no offense,

but it's just like to anyone out there who's done 10 different podcasts, but it's like you regurgitate the same thing, and then you're just listening to different podcasts with really just the same information. And to me, that's great and all, but it's just not unique. And so I think what we're constantly trying to do

is just kind of stay true to our vision is like we just want to be joy and clare. I mean, that's... I shared that feeling. And when I started to look deeper into it, it also challenged us for a major growth in the podcast because I thought our interview sucked. We all thought our interview sucked.

And it was because it was a different chemistry. And so at first, I blame the guests and some of the guests were not the best. Let me tell you, we've had some guests here. Oh, we get that. We've had the wrong people on the show before we're in. But we got off of the interview. That also, I challenged myself.

Now, I want to be the guy like who, and this is something we pride ourselves on, like those, because we have. We just had Justin Renn who did the whole circuit. We just had, who else do we have right? I think it was Rob who just did the circuit. We had them like when they were hitting, five, six, seven really big podcasts like Joe Rogan

and Fightin' the Kid and they were making their rounds. And for us, we challenge ourselves that when they're on our show, that it was the best interview they ever had about themselves and what we find is, and I think you guys have the exact same strength, is the ability to ask the questions that nobody else would ask. Well, you've got to look at that deep.

Look at this conversation. The first half of this interview is like very kind of surface and then as soon as we started diving in, I was like, okay, now we're getting to the meat. And I think we kind of sit here and it happens with any of the people that we interview, it takes them a little while to get warmed up. Even if you're both podcaster, you got to kind of get build that trust, you got to build that rapport, you got to build that momentum. And it's, I don't know, it's interesting, like, how can you do that

in a way that is different and natural? And I mean, it's different for every single person you have in the podcast. Alcohol. Yeah. You've mentioned that. Yeah. It helps warm everybody up. Yeah.

Thanks, guys. Bye. Whoa, that's huge. Oh've mentioned that. It helps warm everybody up. Yeah. Thanks guys. Wow, that's it. Oh my god. Anticipation. Well, Justin needs to sing a song. Oh, right, right. And Adam needs to try and him in.

And I just feel like, do you ever know? Oh my god, that's exactly what I was going to sing. My hero. Yeah. Come on, show me. You're everything I wish I could be. Yeah, come on show me Thank you for listening to mine pump if your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump

Media dot com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ball, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpNedia.com.

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