Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 517: Paul Chek- The Holistic Gangster Unplugged

Episode Date: May 29, 2017

In this episode, Sal, Adam and Justin interview the legendary fitness icon Paul Chek at the Mind Pump Media Studio. Sal, Adam and Justin ask Paul some intimate/probing questions regarding his followers, spiritual pride and his two wives. Listen to this episode to really get to know the heart and mind of Paul. Paul also does a spot on read on the personalities/development of Sal, Adam and Justin. This episode goes deep so hang on and enjoy the ride! Find out more about Paul and get a super discount on his foundational program, Holistic Lifestyle Coaching Level 1 at www.chekinstitute.com/mindpumphlc. Also watch Paul's Holistic Gangster video on YouTube at Mind Pump TV! Get our newest program, Kettlebells 4 Aesthetics (KB4A), which provides full expert workout programming to sculpt and shape your body using kettlebells. Only $7 at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Got a beard? Condition your beard with Big Top Beard Company’s natural oils and organic essential oil blends to make it not only feel great but smell amazing! Get Big Top Beard Company products at www.bigtopbeardcompany.com, code "mindpump" for 33% off. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

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Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So, Paul Check, probably one of the most for me personally, I don't know if you guys feel the same way, influential people that I've met in the fitness and wellness sphere, but also just- He's an outlier.

Just in general. You know what's interesting, before I ever met Paul, and before I ever really dove into his courses and classes and teachings, I would always hear people talk about Paul Check and the Check Institute and the holistic lifestyle coaching, programs and all that stuff. And what used to turn me off was the almost, from my end, it sounded like this cultish fanaticism, right?

It was everything and he was God and this and that and that's not what they said But it felt like that for me part of the reason and looking back and being objective is I'm just a very skeptical individual but After meeting the guy and going through some of the stuff. I can see why people follow him so vehemently why he's so impactful. The guy from a wellness standpoint, I can't think of a single human being I've ever met in my entire life that encompasses the entire sphere of wellness,

as much as him, from an accurate perspective. He's drawn all the lines to get all the dots connected. It's pretty fucking mind-blowing. Like, he's not pretentious at all. He's not dogmatic in the narrative. He's very polarizing. That's what causes people to be though. He's polarizing because he's polarizing the way we would be. He touches all the third rail.

It's uncomfortable. Yes, it's like, if we were talking about barbell squats to a world of people who've never done barbell squats, we would come across as dogmatic about barbell squats because we know how awesome they are, for example. I'm using a silly example, but, and so Paul talks like that a little bit, and he does go all over the place with the way he covers things,

but the man is absolutely brilliant, very, very highly intelligent guy. I can't believe how much information a knowledgeless guy knows from, like I said, all aspects of wellness. So we had him back on the show. We interviewed him again. We had him up here at Mind Pump Media, did some film, all aspects of wellness. So we had him back on the show. We interviewed him again. We had him up here at Mind Pump Media did some film,

some video with him. We got to hang out with him a lot longer, which was cool. Got to hang out with him a lot longer. Had another great episode with him. And, I mean, the guys fucking, I mean, mind blowing. Whether you agree or disagree with him, like just listen to what he's saying and how we're saying it, and you'll probably get something earth shattering out of it.

Again, I can't say enough about the guy. He really encompasses that entire wellness sphere. His Czech Institute courses are pretty amazing. Everybody I've ever talked to who's done it, really, really enjoyed it. It was mind blowing for a lot of the people that we Respect I know Dr. Ruscio that was his first introduction into wellness was taking the holistic lifestyle coaching most smart people We've met a lot of our attached to Paul checks. It's it's pretty amazing. So you know We're talking to this interview and we've covered a lot of really cool subjects.

I think this episode, for those of you that love the first podcast with them, we're going to absolutely love this one as well. It's really awesome. Also, we talked to him a little bit and we wanted him to be able to offer our listeners a way to be introduced to his courses and what he talks about. And so what he's doing, and he's never, I don't think he's ever done this before, is you can actually get access to the Holistic Lifestyle Coach level one program, a huge discount for the whole thing.

Normally it's like $347. The thing you get the whole program for $197. And that's going to be valid for a week from when this episode air. So I think June 4th is the last day you can get access to that. What you do is you go to checkinstitute.com forward slash mind pump HLC. Let me spell that out. Check is CHEKinstitute.com forward slash mind pump, H-L-C, and you'll get that fat discount.

All this will be in the show notes, I believe. It's all gonna be in the show notes as well. So here we are talking to Paul Check again, part two. Yeah, you. I'm alive and hot with the man himself, Paul Check. If you don't say so yourself. The holistic gangster. The holistic, that is a badass shirt right there. Thank you guys, by the way. If you don't say so yourself, the holistic gangster.

The holistic, that is a badass shirt right there. Thank you guys, by the way, it was quite amazing this morning to see someone make that comment and then come here and you give me a shirt with the holistic gangster on it. I felt, what was the other one they called you? Well, you definitely earned that title. In the end, in the end, she was trying to say

how impressed he was. The fast we were on our business game like that. That's Taylor over there. The other one was the Zen Meathead. I'm the Zen Meathead. So I like those. I like those. That's the follow-up shirt.

Yeah, well, you know, they can all be, you know, conceptualized into beautiful things, which is great. How was dinner for you last night? I loved it, actually. I ate too much, but, you know, what are you doing? You're in a situation where the food tastes so good that the experience of eating is one of the things I ate too much, but you know, what are you doing in your situation where the food tastes so good that The experience of eating is one of the things that make you happy you are a human being and so

I was happy I was a human being last night. So thanks again Well, what a great what actually a great topic to kind of start on is is learning to find that balance between Eating what's healthier and what's good for our body, then also enjoying memories and opportunities and creating memories and opportunities like that. How do you teach when you teach someone and you're talking to them about the relationship with food? How do you start that conversation in that direction? Well, I started with the food itself and anyone that wants to join me and invite to join because oftentimes people

see me with my head down looking strange. And I'm, I open my heart chakra and I connect to the food and I say thank you, Mother Universe, thank you, Mother Earth, thank you, Spirit to this beautiful food. It is with great love and respect that I bring you into my being Would you like to join me now and body, mind and spirit so that together we could make the world a better place for all living beings now and in the future Oh Peace oh man, and I wait And if the food

Spirit say yes, we're into your mission then I get a big surge of energy like like like when someone hits you with a bucket of cold water and your hair stands on and it's that kind of uprising If there's something in the food for example that might be harmful to me then there's a signal that pulls the energy down for example I travel on the road a lot. When I sometimes have something handed to me in a restaurant or like a whole foods, all of a sudden my soul will tell me don't eat that or the food spirits themselves will not give me the yes we want to join it's like they know they're gonna cause trouble. What's Paul? What's that voice sound like? Is it like a sexy hot woman talking to you? No! You know, you can hear the voice but the voice is always some... What's Paul? What's that voice sound like? Is it like a sexy hot woman talking to you? No It's you can hear the voice, but the voice is always some

rendition of your own psyche. I mean What's you know, it's interesting about this is I'm sure some people are listening going oh gosh, you know You're talking to your food, but you know what's funny about this is, if I'm imagining I'm doing this, number one, I'm slowing down, I'm paying attention to what I'm eating. I'm respecting the fact that I'm about to eat. So that's all the stuff that's happening. And I'm less likely to eat it pop tart if I did that.

Like imagine doing that in front of a pop tart. You'd be like, all right, well, I guess this pop tart is not worthy of this time I'm spending to eat it. You see what I'm saying? It's almost like it helps that decision process along the way. That's true, and I can also show you the flip side of that coin, because as a guy who's traveled the world,

lecturing professionally, non-stop for about 22 years, up to about four years ago when I just had to take a break. But there was many, many times that I could not find anything that met my bottom standard of what I wanted to put in my mouth. It was either starve to death or eat from some fast food place in an airport. And I have an eaten in 14 hours or something. And so what I do then is I open my heart to the food and I know that the food that we're eating in places like that was raised in nasty environments, you know, farm raised animals, commercially raised animals, commercially raised plants, toxins, whatever. And so I connect

to the spirit of those plants and let them know that their life was a life of purpose. Because those plants, to me, are like people living in third-world countries that don't have food or water and they're starving to death and there's, you know, something like 2 billion of them on the planet. So I don't want to ignore those beings. So when I meditate, I open my heart to them and thank them for doing that experience for the great spirit so that I could do this one this time. And so what I'm saying is I understand that there's times when we don't always have ideal food options, but I know that those are the beings that didn't get to live a full life and didn't get loved by farming. And when a farmer loves what they raise, who's plenty of research showing that it makes a

difference in how the plants respond, the health of their immune systems, how rapidly they grow, how rich the nutrition is, and spiritual farming, like a Steiner's method of biodynamic farming, produces the most nutritious food in the world at many levels so I love to just connect to the Spirits that haven't been treated well and let them know that now they're joining me and together We will always do our best to make the world a better place. So all living beings feel supported and we help bring people's consciousness up and support everyone in other words, you know,

love even the ugly because the ugly got ugly somehow is what I'm saying. You know, one of my favorite things about you and when we first met I felt that connection is I love when I meet a no truly no bullshit person. And and you know. You're about as genuine as you get. Well, even to the point where, and I do this, like it doesn't take me long after I get to meet somebody, I'll find their insecurities, and I'll kind of poke around them to see how they handle. Yeah. And it tells me a lot about their character.

And, uh, I did that with you when we first met, and I was just incredibly impressed with, and I've been around a lot of brilliant minds. Let's tell the truth. You see that blood on my leg? That's because you fucking beat me up. You were trying to find my insecurities. I got proof. Would I keep that off there? Let's be honest, that was from you deadlifting 400 pounds for sets. Yeah, right.

Okay. In our gym. Oh, yes. Don't, I'm supposed to be old. I'm not supposed to do that. But this was the part, this was the part of me that I appreciate so much, but then I have to ask you, right? And what you just shared with us was the process of you consuming food. Do you find, is it hard for you to turn off the switch

and not just explain to somebody that you ate your food, that you have the desire to want to teach and tell people that, and do you ever stop and think like desire to want to teach and tell people that. And do you ever stop and think like, oh, this is going to turn people off? And I probably shouldn't say it this way, but I know this is how I feel. This is how I believe, and I want to share that. Do you struggle ever with that? Or do you have that, I don't give a fuck, I'm going to say it, what I want to say all the time.

No, I pay attention to what I'm reading off whoever's in the environment. If their eyes look at me as though they're wanting to ask, but are afraid to ask, I say, I suspect that you're curious as to what I was doing before I ate my food. And they will just say, yes, were you praying or what were you doing? Why were you holding your hands over the food

or something like that? And I'll say, would you like me to teach you what I do? So you can experience it. And I would say 99.99% of the time people say yes, I'd love that. And I mean, many of them have very profound experiences. It's the first time they've ever actually opened their heart and put their awareness to their food.

I mean, I've literally had students break down emotional in tears. Like, they just seen their long lost mother for 15 years for the first time and go, oh my God, all this time I didn't know that the food was conscious. It could hear my thoughts. It was reacting to me and I didn't even know it. I said, hey, welcome home, baby, what do you think I pray? You know, it's from an objective. I'm good salad. Okay, pray. You know, it's from an objective. I'm good salad. Yeah.

From an objective point of view, most cultures, most ancient cultures had, did some form of that in their own words or in their own way. Oh, absolutely. Before they ate. So, and I really implore the listeners who are thinking like, what's he talking like, you know, your great grandparents probably did that in their own way, whether it was a religious way or their cultural way. And I think when you look at humanity, when you look at societies, old societies, and you see these rituals that people do in different cultures, there's a reason why.

There's a reason why it's so common. There's a reason why it's common in different cultures that have never communicated with each other that they had this ritual before the eight, whether it be prayer or, you know, to thank the food. Native Americans did it, you know, they did it Asian. And you know, from a Western point of view, how much we disrespect our food and what I mean by that is I don't mean we disrespect our food like we treat it horribly, although we do do that. But we don't respect what food is. Right. And what food does for us, it's made, we are made, you respect what food is and what food does for us.

It's made, we are made, food is made quickly, it's consumed quickly, it's engineered to hit every taste bud that you could possibly crave, it's designed to become addictive, and we don't respect what food does to the point where if I go to the doctor, in fact, had a conversation earlier I just can't ask you I just gonna ask you if you're gonna share that I think this is a perfect time to share I had I had a conversation earlier with someone on social media about this where You know you go to the doctor and you you go to a dermatologist and you have acne for example You know something benign like acne Although it can be quite troubling for someone And they don't talk about changing your diet. In fact, if you tell them, if you ask them,

hey, is it anything I'm eating, they'll say, no, not at all, has nothing to do with what you're eating. And this could be, I could go to the doctor for rheumatoid arthritis, I could go for joint pain, I could go for all these other issues, aside from stomach problems, that's about the only time they'll say it might be your food, but they don't talk about your food with any type of respect. And if you really think about it,

like, you are, this is something you do every single day, almost every day for your entire life. The food becomes you. Yeah. It is more your medicine than almost anything, aside from your oxygen and sunlight and communication with people. It is all those. It is all those. It is Absolutely and so what you do before and what you say before you eat I

Don't the food are the words are important to you But what I find even more fascinating about it is the respect that you respect your food enough to do that Yeah, and respect it in the sense of you understand what the food is and what it does to you and for you and what it can do in terms of harm and all that stuff. It's a link between life and death. Just like breath is, right? You can't go without breathing for very long until you no longer can hold the balance of life and you cross over into another energetic dimension that we call death. Well, food is right up there, because food is largely watered, so you have to have water and you have to have food

and you have to have breath and you have to have warmth or shelter to survive. So, for me, food is actually the fabric that creates the matrix that allows my soul to exist consciously in what we call life. And all you got to do is watch as people's diet and lifestyle gets worse and worse, and they can't bring in the materials that their genes can use to rebuild the matrix of self, which is the soul's home.

It's the soul's spiritual school is within the body. That's how it enters into growth and life and into experience and life. Now just think of what happens if you spill battery acid on your t-shirt, it eats right through it, right? So when you're eating chemicals and you're eating dead stuff and you're not eating anything that's got natural harmonic vibrations and doesn't produce photons in coherent orderly fashion like Fritz Albert Pop showed organic food produces coherent light and in a significant greater amount than non-organic food. He showed that it produced very random and chaotic spurts of photons and he showed basically

that organic food was a source of not only information, nutrition, but it is a source of living information. So it's communicating to things in our biofield. So it's almost as though your liver, we all know this liver needs certain foods. Dandelion works well for the liver, for example. Well, there's a harmonic between the way the livers built and the structure of the livers cells and the molecules and the components that we can get out of a dandelion. So those things have a relationship with our liver that's positive, but those things may not be ideal for the adrenal glands, for example, or for the lungs. So Chinese medicine is full of a whole cornucopia of which plants and which antlers and which bugs.

So they have this whole cornucopia of what does what for what, right? So when we stop eating well and we watch the changes in our body, like you don't get obese overnight. You don't get type 2 diabetes overnight. You don't get cancer overnight. Cancer for most people is somewhere between a 10 and a 15 year project of living an imbalanced lifestyle as a general rule of thumb. So if you keep eating food that you think is just energy because that's

what they taught you in science class and it's like gasoline that you put in a car. You don't realize it's wheat, what's your cells weave the fabric of your existence out of. Then you start seeing tissues break down, stretch marks all over the place. You know, men can't get erections anymore, so they've got to use drugs. Women dry out, and their boobs start to sag, and their face is get wrinkled. And eight spine starts to ache, and then your gallbladder gets cut out, and then your gall bladder gets cut out, and then your appendix gets cut out, then your tonsils get cut.

And you just, next thing you know, you're kind of like that shirt that had battery as it spilled on it. You got holes all over you, and you're having a hard time really doing anything that's fun because everywhere you go, you gotta have a bucket of pills with you. You're afraid to leave the doctor,

you're afraid, there's a list of, oh, I'm afraid I might not live without this. But when you eat with awareness and you eat with the knowledge that every dollar you spend on organic food is food that is actually money that's going to supporting the whole planet for all of us versus paying for chemicals. Now you can see the connection between the soil and your soul. And when you realize that your experience as a soul includes all the choices you make, whether you're conscious of it or not, meaning if you eat junk food and you're unconscious of it, you still are going to suffer the effects of it. There's no escaping that. And that's

one of the ways to soul enlightens people. It lets you make these mistakes so that you have to learn because the pain guides you to making better choices. And lets you make these mistakes so that you have to learn because the pain guides you to making better choices. And if you keep drugging it, not listening, then you just get deeper, deeper, deeper lessons until you come up against the brick wall called, do I want to live anymore? And it feels like when you have that kind of respect for food, it's, it's, it's, it's difficult to eat poorly. It is. It is because you know that you're harming yourself. You're actually, how many people walk around all day bitching about everybody that hurt them.

My dad, this, my boss, that, they got a long, long inner dialogue of all the people that screwed them in life. And here they are, the number one person screwing themselves, not taking care of themselves, poisoning themselves. And you know, you guys know me, I'm all for having a good time. If you want to smoke or smoke pot or drink and dance and do whatever. But you have to at least 80% of the time care for the garden enough that it can handle a party now. care for the garden enough that it can handle a party now. And then otherwise the garden starts to break down.

And it's kind of like, you know, having a never ending frat party at your house and you wake up one day and you've lost $100,000 in value because all the windows are knocked out and all the furniture's broken. And you just figure that out. And you can't get in the corner. And you know, and the way you eat

and the way you nourish yourself, it can change, right? It can change from week to week or year to year to where I know last night you were talking about how you went through a period where you felt like you needed to eat a vegan type diet. In a vegetarian? A vegetarian. Can you explain that? Well, in my holistic lifestyle coach training program in HLC2, I teach a person how to connect to what I am referring to as the soul, which is, you know, the inner consciousness of yourself. It's the consciousness within you. It's everything that allows you to have an experience of being yourself and knowing it. In Ken Wilbur's

model, it's called the upper left quadrant, the personal interior. So I make a habit of asking a question and listening and not thinking. So for example, if you say a question like, should I eat one cookie or two cookies right now? Something that your ego is not going to get threatened over if the answer is one or two, you can get by without a hassle, right? Then you're brave enough to shut your ego down and just listen and when you start just pausing your ego completely, you'll find there's another part of you that gives an answer to a question like that. That part of you is somehow strange and mysteriously your center, but also at the

same time, somehow all of you. And any other voice like when you're thinking with your head, you feel the energy in your head. If you pay attention, your head is actually processing. But when your soul is talking to you, there's something that's coming from everywhere inside of you at once, but somehow centralized at the same time. It's kind of a miraculous little thing. And that's the consciousness within you.

So by just asking simple questions and completely practicing letting your mind relax, like you just finished a set, you sat on the bench and you're willing to let go, you will begin to feel that there's the higher self that's the totality of your wisdom and the totality of everything that you think you are and more, and it begins to speak to you. And so that's that's the part that I listen to. So when I asked my soul, would you like to eat meat today? Yes or no? Would you like eggs today? Yes or no. I was hoping to do some deadlift today. Would you like to do deadlifts? And I'll get a yes or a no. Sometimes I think it's a great day to train. Sometimes my soul says, no, today you need to stretch and mobilize your body or go lift rocks or go for a walk or do some sprinting. So what you find is as you learn to let go to that part of yourself, everything that you

create starts to become more magnificent and you wake up one day and go, you know, I could have never done that on my own before. I couldn't, there's no way I could have painted that way or there's no way I could have come up with that idea. You come to a realization that there is so much more wisdom inside of you that you've never been taught to access because the church kind of makes that illegal. You know, you have to go through the church to get to God. But when you find out that this thing that we call a soul is God within you,

and it's right there all the time and totally willing to support you and guide you, it's quite a marvelous experience. So that part of me told me many years ago that it was time for me to... I was also doing a lot of work in shamanism at the time, so my soul told that it was time for me to, um, I was also doing a lot of work and shamanism at the time. So my soul told me it was time for me to cut out the meat, detoxify, and go into some

training on rattling and drumming and various healing practices. So for, well, probably a year, I was up around 3.30 in the morning and going to work early so I had time to do about three hours of this work just letting my soul guide me and just have amazing, amazing experiences. And so I was, my soul asked me to go vegetarian and I checked every day, are you sure you want? And there was days I was hungry, I could eat a whale. And you know, it's whale. I could watch the muscle coming off, but I asked every time, you know, and spiritual courage is being brave

enough to listen to the party you that's beyond, you know, how good your pecs look or how much, how much you can impress people, how big of what you can lift or, you know, it takes a fair bit of courage to get past letting that part of you control everything. And so for me, I think my soul took me through getting skinny and having a lot of people bitch at me and call me names and send me nasty letters. But no on the inside that I was listening to the voice that has always guided me better than I can guide myself. I don't care what anybody thinks about whether that's fufu or whatever. Most of the people that have opinions like that have no experience of it.

So it's just like listening to your mother tell you how bad LSD is or something. You know, something like that. I'll tell you what I think. Right. I have that axe. No, on that woo-woo part, if do you feel people think you're crazier now or do you feel like in the past you got that more? And the reason why I say this is because some of the things

you talk of and the way you talk about them, I find it's fascinating that we're starting to gain a lot of popularity. Well, not only is it gaining popularity, is we're starting to create tools to try and quantify this stuff. I know you were tracking sleep and heart rate variability before anybody was fucking talking about this.

And now you're starting to see these, everyone has a tool now that tells them they're asleep. And so, and that's what I meant by that. Like some of the stuff that probably sounded really cookie for people you were saying 20 years ago, and I'm asking you, do you feel like you get the, you know, crazy uncle cookie, Paul check more now? Or did you get it more 20 years ago? You know, I've been getting it all the way from different people for different reasons.

That's a clue. The tell me you're on the right track. Yeah. You know, like I think I told you in the last interview, when I first brought the Swiss ball into gyms and was developing the technology that I put into courses and videos, I got ridiculed constantly, mostly by big dudes with lots of muscles, body builders, you know, guys that thought they were tough guys, you know. And so, and then there was also many people that were scared. They thought it was too dangerous. And, you know, I had an onslaught of resistance,

but I also had, you know, people like Alver Meal strength coach from the Chicago Bulls who was blown away at what happened when he implemented all the techniques that I taught him and his partner Eric that were the strength and conditioning. That was the Jordan era too, yeah? Yeah, yeah, I work for the Bulls. I think seven different times to share

Key concepts Alver meal was a very open-minded guy He's probably the most successful strength coach I know over in the world the 13 championship rings between his work with the NFL and the NBA and Very very intelligent guy someone who I really enjoyed working with and So he attended a lecture I gave a long, long time ago for the National Strengthening Conditioning Association on Core Control and he loved it. So he got my course and he said, this is too technical. I need your help guide me to using this properly.

So I don't screw this up. And I got them on that and then I got the bulls using Swiss balls. And they were the first professional sports team to take them on as part of their training routine. And then I think the Lakers picked it up from them. So I got a lot of hassle with that. I mean, without telling a long story, it's always the same kind of resistance, but the people that think I'm crazy for telling you

that how I pray and connect to food and you talk to soul are not the same people that thought it was crazy for bringing Swiss balls under the gym. And at the same time, to soul are not the same people that thought it was crazy for bringing Swiss balls under the gym. And at the same time, they are some of the same people. But I'm saying there are some people that would have thought the Swiss ball idea was really cool and had no resistance to it. But we've got it.

We've got it. But I think my relationship with food or my soul is just nutty. So it's the nature of Tai Chi that opportunity always has to have resistance nearby or there's no action potential. You understand what I mean by that? So no matter whenever you're growing or moving in a way that's out of the consensus norm, it usually triggers fear or judgment from people because they're conditioned. Like if you're driving home tonight and someone's driving at you head on, you're probably

going to think that's a complete moron heading at you and what the hell is he doing on the road? He must be stoned or something and you're not probably going to think, I bet you that guy just landed from England and he doesn't realize the wrong side of my mouth. Right? So if you've been in England and you've had that experience yourself, then you can probably say, oh boy, I bet you that guy just got home from a European travel trip or something.

My cousin did that to me coming from Northern Ireland and he was driving my truck and started going like 80 miles an hour on the wrong lane. Scared the shit out of me. But my point for that analogy is as you see, there's people on either side of the fence always. Makes sense. And the way we grow spiritually is we come to the realization that when you were a kid

and you had great ideas, your dad told you they wouldn't work or your brother told you they wouldn't work. And then when you went to high school, your teacher told you they wouldn't work. And then when you went to high school, your teacher told you they wouldn't work. And then when you went to college, your professor said, all that will never work. And in fact, you won't even get that published. Well, 10 years later, you're the world's leading expert on the subject they told you wouldn't even get published on, right? So it's like the resistance on the hero's journey has to be there or a hero can't be made.

And we're not really sure who we are till we make a hero out of ourselves. But the trick is only you can decide when you're hero enough to stop trying so hard to prove something. And that's the day you become a man or a woman. Or a serious badass, actually. A lot of what you say,

the language that you use, I think, is what makes it difficult for some people to understand. And what I mean is, like when I hear someone talk about Chinese medicine and talk about Chi, for example, for a Western medicine doctor, they're going to automatically shut off. But when you look at the way Chinese medicine works from a Western standpoint, now we have studies to show that many things that they do actually work, but the language is what makes it difficult for people to understand.

Meditation, I'll use a meditation as another example for a long time, meditation was just something that hippies and, you know, those kind of people did, right? And all of a sudden now athletes are doing it, professional athletes and strength athletes are doing it. And other people now are listening because they use a different language. So like when you talk about food or you talk about

the relationship to food and how you talk, or when you ask yourself, should, do is my soul wanna eat meat? Yeah. That language would make it difficult for people to understand, but what I hear, because I'm really trying to break this down, and what I hear is really just becoming aware of what your body needs. And it's just different language. So let me explain something to you. I'll

use Steiner's model of soul. Steiner teaches that wherever there's something with an inside and an outside, there's a soul. And this is called the great chain of being, and most religions, it begins with an atom, right? You can't have a body unless you start it with an atom, okay? So an atom has an energetic inside and an outside because there's a structure to an atom. There's a structure to nickel.

There's a structure to gold. There's a structure to salt, right? a structure to gold, there's a structure to salt, right? So atoms only get together, create structures. So what's outside that structure and empty space is different than what's inside it is what I'm saying. So what's inside of it is the soul, and that's, shall we say, the information field that makes it be salt, or makes it be stone, or whatever it is. Well, then we, so there's the mineral soul. That's the basis of the development of what we are.

From the mineral soul you go to the biological soul. So once you have cellular life or even bacterial life, anything that has sentience of its needs, in other words, it's hungry and it has to protect itself, whatever. Now you've got something that has self-awareness. So you go from mineral soul to biological, excuse me, biological soul, which goes all the way up. Right? Consciousness evolves as the brain gets bigger and different other systems grow.

And so from biological soul, we have the intellectual soul. And that's the part of us that we know ourselves through as our personality. That's where the ego is. There's no such thing really as a body within ego. The body knows that it's part of nature and it knows that it's a different body but the body doesn't have issues about how it looks or how it feels that it's very pure in its instinct. So it's like a dog's very pure in its authenticity. I'm hungry. I want to sleep dog very pure in its authenticity. I'm hungry. I want to sleep. Whatever. So the intellectual soul is really made of information, mostly passed to us through our

parental programming and through our social circles and social environments. The next phase up, which is a big jump, a person doesn't really know what spiritual development is from an authentic perspective until they make it to the next level, which Steiner called the Awareness Soul. And the Awareness Soul is what emerges as soon as you begin to question your own thoughts. So for example, you might say, John's a real dick. That's the third time he's done that to me. That guy's a real dick. But the next level up in spiritual growth where spiritual awareness actually emerges is when all of a sudden you're brave enough to say, I wonder if that's actually true.

I wonder if maybe I'm being a dick and I just don't realize it or you know, you start to actually question yourself honestly not trying to prove anything but just trying to actually be brave enough to look at both sides of an equation so you're not bullshitting yourself into thinking that you're right. So as that awareness soul gross and you'd be shit shocked when you start doing that to yourself. You just here's an example. Listen to yourself when you're stating things to people factually. Marijuana does this to you or this supplement gives you that effect, whatever. And then sit for a minute in meditation and say, how sure am I of that? Oh,

well, I read a study, but were you there? What was the, what was, do you remember the parameters of the study designed? You know how many people they were? Do you know who the statistician was? Do you know who funded the study, which is one of the most important things to know about a study before you believe Jack Shit? And what you find out is that most of what you and I perceive to be factual is actually what Ocho calls paper boats. And the deeper you go into that, the more you realize that we're very, we've become very comfortable at living on a sort of a mystical concept of factuality when really it's mostly fabricated. So then when you start going into the awareness soul and really questioning that,

and if, if all that happens is you just suspend judgment. Maybe this guy's not a dick. And maybe I'm not a dick. Maybe there's just all kinds of dicks in the room. We're both having a bad day. And it just happened the last three times we met. We were both having a bad day. You know, you leave room. So simple minded thinking is on, off, yes, no. Too dimensional. More sophisticated thinking is, yes, no, maybe, or both. And then there's an underlevel. Yes, no, maybe you're both becomes, the question is not even appropriately asked so it shouldn't

even be considered. You understand that? Like some people ask questions that just are asking the wrong question for whatever it is or trying to find out, because they just don't have enough knowledge to even formulate a question that can give a meaningful answer. It's like a three-year-old trying to ask you a question about an Olympic lift It doesn't really have a structure to know whether it's question is appropriate or not so I have an inappropriate question to ask you so Last last night I can't help and I and this I love talking to you about so this because you are so fucking wrong

You'll just tell whatever right? I know you drove up in your RV, and you brought both your wives to dinner with us, had an incredible, both of them are incredible. I can't help but ask myself, how does the sleeping arrangement work when you get into that RV? Because I know there's only one bed, do you guys all together? No, there's three beds. There's the bed above the cab.

The bench across from the dinner table folds into a bed. And then the whole back is like a bedroom back there. There's a bathroom, and then there's like a queen-sized bed with cupboards and space to walk around it. So what I do is I spend typically two days with Penny and then two days with Angie, and I just rotate back and forth two days at a time. And there's times when maybe Mona's having teething pain

and he needs some more support from Daddy that I might stay three, four days with Angie, and then I'll go back to Penny, and I'll probably spend two, three days or whatever feels good. But because Angie, you know, because Mono's only 14 months old and she was pregnant, she needed more connection and support.

And I've been with Penny over 20 years. So Penny's, you know, not, Angie and I've been together five years. So there's still a lot more growing in the kind of the intimate development of the relationship where Penny and I have worked through a lot of these stages. We've been the 7 year it just happened three times. We know this whole story and we don't really need a lot of things from each other.

We just love being together. It's like we don't have to jump each other for sex just to make sure we're still in love or we don't have to have long discussions about things because we already know how each other sees the world. So we're happy to sit in reading a book and not talking and just dig in that or just watching a movie together or her doing her thing and I do my thing and we go to bed whenever we feel like it and she often shows up when I'm asleep and it's just cool and if we make love great, if it doesn't happen great, it doesn't happen for a week, no big deal. It doesn't happen for two weeks, it's okay.

If we have lots of sex for three days, that's okay too. Now, in the five years now, is there ever the melding of all three? No. Is there a rule? That's a misconception, right? I feel like that's what. I mean, people gotta be thinking it. That's why I'm asking right? I feel like that's cool. I mean, people gotta be thinking it.

That's why I'm asking. Yeah, no, that's okay. People do ask. There's different styles out there. And a lot of people accuse me of running a cult because I have two wives. And they think I'm kind of doing more than Hugh Hefner, I guess, which, you know, if I could contribute as much as Hugh Hefner did

to the world even if they called me a cult leader, I'd still be doing great. But Penny's a very private person, and she really likes to have her own life. In fact, Penny's bedroom is at one end of the house, and Angie's bedroom is at the opposite end of the house, and the kitchen, and another bedroom, and Penny's office separate the house, and it just worked out that way because my house is laid out that way. So it just happened that we could do that.

But I try to give them both as much love as I can and not be favoritism to anybody because that's just not healthy and it's part of the growth of being in a relationship like that is learned to just be honest and even. Now, as last night as I was trying to convince Katrina that this was a really good idea for us. And it wasn't going over very well for me.

She had to ask, like, I want, she asked me and I have to ask you, I wonder, do the girls get the same flexibility? And if they came to you and said, Paul, I met this young 25 year old guy and I, and I, what do you think? Like, would they be allowed to? Would that cause a problem? Do you think that would happen? I mean, you know,

Penny and I have started our relationship on the grounds that we would be honest with what we needed so that we didn't have to run into the kinds of problems that make most supposedly Christian-type monogamous relationships very, very painful and put a lot of junk in the trunk, as I say, a lot of withholding and concealing of affairs and fantasies. And this is one of the reasons you see so much porn addiction because of all this kind of inner compression and abstinence that makes up devils.

My thing is just be present with whatever arises and just be honest with what's real for you. I know that that's unlikely because Angie and I both had been with a lot of people and we both, when we came together, found something in each other that was more powerful than the desire to be with multiple people. And it's funny because when it happened to me, it surprised me. But I think I was telling you about it a lunch cell. I was saying, you know, that I reached a point where even though my wife was giving me total freedom to be with other women, and I had many beautiful and loving relationships with

incredibly beautiful people physically, mentally, and spiritually. I just felt with Angie that in order to really get what we can get from each other to help each other grow spiritually, we have to drill a deeper well. You know, if you're looking for spiritual water, drilling six-foot holes doesn't get you very deep. To really grow with someone spiritually, you've got to go through the work of drilling for your 400 or a thousand feet. And that means you're going to hit rubble, and you're going to hit gas pockets, and you're going to hit wash-outs, you know, and you're going to hit hard rock. And those are all metaphors for challenging times that you have to work through

together. And that can be anything from getting clear on whether your body's horny or whether your soul's horny. Sometimes our bodies get horny and we can't and we screw our relationships up to feed a penis that stiff and takes over our mind versus checking in with what our heart really wants, you know. And the problem is even wild passionate sex with somebody like that might only last an hour or two or three or four, ten if you're lucky. Wow. Well, I did say if you're lucky.

But then you got the rest of your life after that, right? And in a few minutes in a hotel, you can you can ruin a lot of opportunity. So for me, it's really, I think Penny and I are just at peace and I would be honored them the same way they've always honored me. That's our agreement. And if it felt painful for me I would say I feel painful for this reason or I feel afraid for this reason but I have had experiences of sharing women before with men so I know what it feels like and I'm I've tested it out so

So you know you could handle it if it had to go if Well, you know, when I when I did do that, it was with one of my buddies who was a very good friend of mine and someone I really appreciate as an athlete, as a human being. And it was the time in life, my life after my first marriage, where I was single. And he was a very good looking man and many women, you know women wanted to jump him. And it just happened there were times that I was fortunate enough in those years to have women that were so intensely sexual. I was afraid to call in the troops. So I got to this, I don't want this bird to be unsatisfied. So if I was going to share with a woman,

I wanted to make sure it was someone that I loved and respected enough as a human being to be that intimate with. Um, not just any guy. I mean, and I didn't I don't have any sexual attraction to males at all. I'm highly heterosexual. So for me, it was really like just saying,

you won't believe how much gold I found. In fact, I need you to help me spend it. Because there's too much here. And this year, Rika, we've got a chance here to spend some gold in the vagina overload. Nothing like that. And you know, every one of the women was girlfriends of mine.

And we're all blown away grateful that I would do that with them. They say, Paul, this is a fantasy I've had from my whole life and I never found a man secure enough to share that with me. And I mean, be tears coming out of the eyes. It was like God had just showed up. You know, and I would just, I feel great about it because, you know, there's a lot of pain people create for themselves

by believing in stories about what God doesn't want. And I say love is a boomerang. And to me, the highest form of God there is is the highest form of love, which is unconditional love Which means the answer is always yes for God to say no creates a condition That means God has needs and that's not very godly God's supposed to be everything and have everything and therefore if you are Everything and you have everything. There's really not much you need to want since you already have it anyhow Right, so a God that's gonna judge you and burn you and hell and tell you how you shouldn't, shouldn't masturbate or how you shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't have sex or who you shouldn't, that's, you know, that means God's a chicken shit. It means God's not willing to look into God's

own dark side, but God is. Right? And the Bible Isaiah 45, 7 says, says, I the Lord create the light and the dark. I create good and evil. I the Lord do all these things and that is bang on and they just hate that passage so much that even change it in the last 15 or 20 years. So it doesn't say that anymore. But the fact is God's brave enough to act out every role in the cosmic drama with tremendous authenticity. And there's nobody that can judge, Sal, or Adam, or Justin, or Dave or Paul, because there's only one of you. And behind you, there is no other. There is no one for you to compare yourself to.

The only person that can judge your performance in the grand play of life is you. And the only position you can judge it from is an ego until you grow up enough to say to your soul, what do you think how do we do? And the soul is always going to say, you did great. How do you feel? Are you happy? If you're happy, I'm happy. And if you're happy being an asshole, your soul will probably be happy being an asshole too because God has to be an asshole or nothing that's non-asshole can exist, just like up can't exist with down, without down, in can exist without out. You know, people have this kind of childish view of God, but they forget God is the light

in the dark, the in and the out, the up and the down, the high and the low, the beautiful and the ugly. God's not just the pretty side of the rug. Flip most rugs over, you see all the shortcuts as Ellen Watt says. So we walk on the beauty of the rug and you could say that great spirit lets us walk all over it until we realize what's really going on and then you celebrate more So I find it fascinating that you you quoted the Bible But I feel like you what do you see wrong with Religion and things like Christianity for you to quote that and a verse out of Isaiah like that

But then also I think you have I believe I know what your feelings are, but what do you see flawed? in in in religion or Christianity or any religion for that matter? I don't think there's anything flawed with it. It would be like the same question as saying, what do you think is wrong with the drug industry? Right? Well, you can have very harsh opinions on it.

How we use it or how we interpret it. And I don't like the drug industry for the same reason I don't like religion for money because For the same reason, I don't like religion for money because the drug industry prays on keeping people sick to keep selling the money. It's a disease maintenance system. The whole medical system is not a healthcare system. It's a disease maintenance system.

They got drugs scheduled for you from cradle to grave. You're an investment that they have to maintain. That's simple fact. And this is the food industry. It's many industries. The whole medical industry, the drug industry. I mean, look at the billions and billions of dollars made just off one disease like diabetes for God's sake.

I mean, disease is big, big, big, big business. They don't want no care for cancer. They just want something that looks like a care for cancer that'll work just long enough to get a few billion from you so that they can come up with another one. So the game, you know, they keep moving the carrot in front of your nose and you can never quite reach it. And it's so it's a game. So the point that I'm making is that everyone has a choice, right? People that choose to use the drugs usually do it because they're ignorant and they don't know any better,

or they're not willing to participate in an authentic change process where they look at the choices they're making that led them into the heartburn or led them into the back pain, the overexercise or the under-exercise or not getting the therapy that their doctor told them they should get because they have a minor disc bulge so it turns into a major bulge, not changing their chair when the doctor said, you need to get a better chair. I mean, this goes on all day long, and some people are just too lazy to actually take care of the gift of the body,

because they're not awake enough to realize how fricking magnificent a human body is, and how what a miracle it is to have one, right? So it's taken as a given, like it's taken for granted is really. And so people like that basically take that path and it takes them deeper and deeper into pain. And you know, as I often say, how do you get the juice out of a coconut, you whack it. And so we, the soul lets us whack ourselves until we're, you know, ready to be awakened to the fact that there is no escape

taking responsibility for our choices. And that's when your spiritual birth begins. And you say, okay, I got to stop playing stupid games with myself. And I got to stop even believing in stupid science because obviously, and they frickin' work in here. And I got to stop believing in what they say at church because all these people that say you shouldn't have affairs or have an affairs. And all these people that say you shouldn't have affairs or having affairs and all these priests Who say you should never touch kids in negative ways or screwing kids and you know you realize that The shadow in the life forever dance with each other and it's up to us to decide when we're

being honest enough and loving enough That we can handle being alone with ourselves. Steiner says the first thing that happens when you die is you find yourself surrounded by people just like you and you stay there until you're absolutely sick of yourself and sure of what you will never do again in your next lifetime. So I always remember when Steiner said that in his book at home in the universe and I that made me think it's like, okay, if I'm going to have to be with myself, then it's really important that I be honest about what it's like to be with myself. And that requires the birth of the awareness soul because you got to start asking yourself,

am I being honest? Am I being fair? Am I being too harsh? Am I being not not restraining enough, right? Sometimes you got to say no to a kid, even if the kid's going to freak out or you got to say no to patients or clients, you got to tell them they're bolshining themselves. But if you're afraid to be honest with people, then you can actually be harming them by being a chicken shit because you're afraid of a little confrontation. So we, you know, there's abundant growth around every corner.

So all I'm saying is there's a spectrum from people that are, you know, the devout yogi who goes to the extreme of fanaticism and won't put anything in his body that isn't, you know, blessed by Shiva. And then on the other end, you got the people that go to McDonald's and eat fast food and get diabetes and take pills all day and spend You know a third of their income on drugs and doctors and then you got guys like me that say hey A little balance You know you don't need to be an extreme because there's no god doesn't have any special rewards for being an extremist

It's just another role in the show, right? If you want that role, go ahead. Or you can be in the middle and have a little drugs when you're needing them because you're in pain and you just don't want to deal with the pain and you can do a little exercise to fix it up or get therapy. You can find yourself somewhere where you're at peace with yourself. Then you're ready to hang out with yourself.

Do you feel like most people fool themselves into thinking there that way, though? I feel like a lot of people do that. I feel like you think you have balance. Or you tell yourself you're a balance like that, but we're really truly honest. Yeah. Research shows we overestimate ourselves on average about 70%. For example, if you have to rate yourself as how good a driver you are from a scale of one to 10, the average person is 70% overshoots on anything you ask them.

Yeah, how smart are you? How much money you think you can make? Pretty much anything. Yeah. little bloated self-esteem Off it is. Are you you just talked about it being a piece with oneself and you Sounds like you've been at this for a very long time. Yeah, are you fully at peace with yourself? I have times when I feel sadness inside of myself Sometimes frustration with myself. You know, when you have two wives, you have to really consciously pay attention to a lot of dynamics. Sorry. You have to be careful,

not to provoke things between the two women, which you can easily do if you're not conscious by making a comment maybe that supports one and leaves the other one feeling like oh am I not good enough to get that comment to or in other words it takes a lot of awareness I always say to people because a lot of my students say I'm gonna do that too and I say look if you can't handle one. Oh I had one. I'm throwing a sack one. I can have two yeah. It's a it's a fire walk that you may spend the rest of your life trying to get over.

Well, marriage is difficult anyway. Adding another person to that is just make, I, when people think it's like fun and games, I'm always like, you know, it's difficult enough with two people. You have a third person, it's gotta be much more, it's just an adding another element. Well, one of the things I did with Penny is,

as I said to Penny, well, actually, when I told her this was my dream, when before we got committed to each other, engaged, she said to me, how many wives do you want? And at the time, I actually believed, I mean, I was, I don't know, how old was I? We been together 20 years, I'm 55, I was 35. So I have a comment for 35, but it's let's just say it at 35, you're kind of at a weird place because you actually have lived enough life to think you really know what's going on. But it's easy to do it yourself. Because in the next 20 years, you'll learn

a lot more than you did in the first 35. Is that makes sense? As you grow, you can learn faster because you know more. So knowledge compounds itself much quicker. So you know, at 50, you can learn as much in a day as you did in a week at 35 as a metaphor. Right. You know, because you got a lot more sensors about you. You've had more experiences so you can see more in the world unless you're just dumb and drugged out because you're not participating. Anyhow, I forgot where I was going with that, but the thing that I'm sure you just coached, by the way. I was like,

I was like, you know, if you were at peace with yourself and you said sometimes you feel. So what it is that I was leading to there is that, I'll find sometimes that one of the ladies might say something to me or ask me to do something and I might have just come home from work and I'm just tired of talking. I've talked all day, I deal with people's problems and people that come to me with challenges, right?

Not simple ones, otherwise they wouldn't be paying me the money I charge. They come with mid-life crisis, disease problems, athletes paying, you know, being paid $100,000 a game who are at risk of losing their job because they've had a back injury for, you know, being paid $100,000 a game who are at risk of losing their job because they've had a back injury for, you know, two years and they're sitting on the bench and the team's pissed off. And, you know, so I need to shut down when I come home. I don't necessarily want to talk very much. And Angie hasn't seen me all day. And so Penny's been away from me too. So sometimes Penny needs to share things and Angie needs to share things and I don't want to be talked to. I just want

to be in a man cave somewhere. So I can find myself getting sharp edged, you know. Penny says I'm like a rattlesnake. That's just sweet thing to say. Yeah. Well, that's the honesty that I love her for. That's great. And at the time, when I do it, I feel like I feel sometimes frustrated because like don't they realize that I've been dealing with people's problems all day and I'm working my ass off to earn the money to allow us to live the way we live and have the money to support other people.

In other words, I'm really committing myself and sometimes I just need a little time to myself. And it's easy to forget. One's been holding on to a one year old, 14-month-old kid all day. It's a tiger. And everyone's been managing an entire institute that can have lots of things going on all over the world at the same time. And sometimes challenges, right?

Business comes with challenges. So my point is you asked me am I happy? I'm happy, but there are times where I see the way I behave and I'm very much aware that I still have a long way to go in my growth and development to take God from the noun to the verb. Talking about God as a noun is easy. People do it all the time. And they dilute themselves to thinking just because they say fancy words about God and read cool books about God that their spiritual evolved.

But God's not real till God's a verb. So when I catch myself speaking in ways, acting in ways, or judging in ways that I know in the wisest part of myself, don't reflect God. Then I am aware that I still have a lot of growth in the spirit gym. That's what I call spirit gym. Who gives a shit about how strong you are with barbells, dumbbells, and kelobells if you're a wimp in the spirit gym. And unfortunately, a lot of the muscling up that goes on in the physical earth gym is

to compensate for the pains and the fears and the judgments that are opportunities to grow in the spiritual gym. And if people would do more work in the spiritual gym, they would have a lot less need to armor themselves. And they'd be much more capable of finding beauty in themselves that's beyond pecs, tits, asses, how big your dick is, how fast you can run, you know. And our culture wouldn't spend so much money on plastic surgery and trying to create an illusion. And God's into that too. Don't get me wrong.

I'm not judging. I'm just saying that we all have a lot of room to grow there. And though I'm at peace with myself, I'm also conscious of that I could create a lot more peace in myself, but I'm going to have to practice every day. And I believe spirit gave me two wives so that I have and a new child, so I have every reason to practice. You know, you can only take with you what you die, what you become in life. You understand? You can't leave here Buddha unless you've become Buddha as a verb. Right? So this is kind of like live training. In the afterlife, it's like simulator training.

You can never re-capitulate life in the afterlife because you're not in life. You're in the afterlife. It's like looking at a movie the second time as opposed to being in the first time. When you come into life, you're in the live field of action. And that's the only place you can make the decisions and relationships to truly grow and decide not to hit somebody back or not to give your finger to somebody or, you know, not to bite your wife's head off because she just wants to tell you about her day and, you know, whatever it might be. So that's my way of saying, yeah, I am happy because I make an honest effort every day. And I even make an honest effort to be empathetic to myself and say, Hey, you know what?

There's a party that just wishes that they could feel what you feel. And if they could feel what you feel, they might understand you better. And then my soul says, but it's equally important to remember that if you could feel what they feel, you might realize that they're under a lot more stress than you are and need your help more than you need to be alone. And that's the journey right there. I got to feel like you have to have another conviction with your business and your level awareness and knowing the importance of staying grounded, staying connected, always reflecting, and then we're living

a world though that, you know, and the saying goes, you know, money makes the world turn. And these things are how we make means and get by and have houses and feed ourselves. And where it's evolving is getting more plugged in and disconnected with yourself and more connected from a virtual stance to people and knowing that and knowing that's the direction and then also being a guy who's trying to get this message to truly genuinely help a lot of people that has to be, you got to struggle with that.

You got it. It's hard because there's so much knowledge now amongst big corporations on how the social brain works, the social mind. Just like your autonomic nervous system does a lot of thinking and processing below the level of your consciousness, the social mind or the culture does a huge amount of information processing below, but the people that make the laws, the George bushes of the world and the Donald Trump's

of the world and the big lawyers of the world and the movers and shakers have the ability to program I mean, 85 people in, own half the money in the world. So that, you know, that tells you, there's 85 people that own half the wealth of the entire planet. So those people are very invested in keeping you

on their agenda because that's just a printing press that they run. And this is, you know, everyone knows this, it's looked into it. But the reality of it is this that's looked into it. But the reality of it is is that you have to compete. I mean, think Coke, cola spends like $350 million a year to market sugar water, right? Well, if I had $350 million a year to market the check institute, let me tell you, I can sell one shitload of courses. And people would be

changing. And it would be very, very threatening to these large corporations, because I can sell one shitload of courses and people would be changing and it would be very very threatening to these large corporations because I can show people very quickly that you can get off a lot of drugs by just simply drinking good water, eating real food, sleeping when you should be sleeping and getting enough movement to keep your animal body healthy and that alone could collapse the medical system, right? But we forget that the medical system is one of the largest taxpayers there is, which means one of the biggest supporters of the defense industry and the drug industry and the, you know, all the industries. So there's a whole lot going on here that doesn't meet the eye. I mean, like

I'm saying, if I could make everybody healthy, I'd also create a huge financial crisis and the whole country would start to collapse. So I reached the point where I just said, I have to just trust great spirit and do what my heart tells me is loving, authentic, and honest and trust that, you know, it's like us coming together. You guys found out about me through various contacts,

and I found out about you from some of my students, and really liked your stuff. And it wasn't very long after someone Paul, you said, really, you really should do an interview with the Mind Pump guys. I think they would be like, actually, it was Mike Suleamy. Mike said, Paul, these guys would love what you do. I just know they would.

You're gonna have a good time if you meet these guys. And the next thing you know, here we are, right? And so you're sharing with your audience, your stuff, and I'm sharing with my audience your stuff. So we're, you know, reciprocating, you know, and that's what love is. Love is that reciprocity. You know, I define love as the flow of energy and information through empathic and or compassionate connection to self or other. We're sharing energy and information and we're empathic and or compassionate connection to self or other. We're sharing energy and information, and we're empathetic and compassionate for each other's mission and for each other's life experiences and challenges, and that we're all here. It surprises me together.

It surprises me you don't have more relationships like that, because you are such a compassionate person. For us, it wasn't a hard decision at all, when we especially after we met you. Well, I'll tell you what, I mean, there's a lot of times you're saying things and I'm trying to figure out what you're communicating and trying to get it. And to me, it sounds foreign.

And I'm deciding if I agree or not, but I also, I have a pretty good bullshit meter in the sense that you're a very genuine person. So, and for me, that's number one. If somebody's very genuine, then I tend to like them. Regardless if I agree or disagree, I've had, we've had hosts, excuse me, guests on our show who are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum

of you who say very, very different things and who I may not agree with a lot, but they're very genuine. And so I respect what they say. And you're one of those people, which is one of the reasons why you're one of our more polarizing guests. But lots of people really wanted to hear what you had to say. Lots of people really wanted to hear what you had to say about even basic things like fitness which you've been doing this for so long.

You're so advanced in your quest for overall total wellness that you talk about a lot of the advanced things, but there's a lot of basic messages there too that I think a lot of people need to hear for example, let's talk about exercise for a second. I wanna change gears for a second. What is the biggest mistake you see the average person making with exercise?

The biggest mistake has two sides like a coin. Of course it couldn't be a fucking one minute answer. Let me break this down, we're to the sun and the moon to you. I'll give you the set of it. Ready? Are you ready? Yeah. Okay.

On the tail side of the coin, which is far the bigger in our culture, is not doing enough exercise. On the heads is doing too much. There's your answer. Right on point. Right, I like to live in the middle and anyone that does usually feels greater, looks greater, and doesn't spend so much time going,

the older I get, the faster I was. Now, how does somebody know if they're doing too much? Because their body doesn't recover. In other words, you go to your next scheduled workout, maybe you're doing pulling exercises every third day, and all of a sudden your warm-up weight feels so heavy, it's like you just walked out of the gym yesterday. So your body saying, do not do this again. You are not recovered enough. then you all a sudden notice geez, you know, I went out to a friend's house who's a vegan Last night for dinner and I had nothing but salad and you wake up in the morning and you feel a lot better than you felt in a long Time and the warm-up bar feels like it's made of feathers and you go wow what the hell's different man

This isn't normal for me. You say, shit, I haven't eaten meat now for two meals. I spend most of my fucking career trying to connect those dots for you. That's a hard one to connect. So in high tech terms, you've alkalized yourself and you've given yourself the nutrition to shut down huge amounts of inflammation,

which is anabolic, which means you've sped your recovery up. And then you listen to some more like Paul Chex, say, you should really take long cold showers whenever you finish training. And before bed, if you want to improve your sex drive, and in the morning, if you want to exercise your autonomic nervous system and your arterial vascular bed, your arterial vascular bed is a living tree

of arteries and veins that respond to temperature. And we are in such temperature controlled rooms. It's like there's a whole muscular tree as big as your whole body that no one exercises. Only shit, you just blew my mind. That makes plenty of sense. You know what, you blew my mind because there's a lot of studies in science right now

supporting temperature contrast. Well, it's a warning. It's a warning to see Dr. Wim Hof right now on the experience. Exploding everywhere. I think he's just Wim Hof. No, he's Dr. Wim Hof. Is he the experience, exploding everywhere. Dr. Wim Hof. I think he's just Wim Hof. No, he's Dr. Wim Hof, isn't he? No, he's Wim Hof.

Yeah, really? Yeah, I didn't know that. He's still about anyways. Dr. Rondra Patrick talks a lot about, going into heat and temperature contrast and I've been experiencing it myself. And it makes perfect sense what you just said, that it's something you just,

you need to exercise like anything else. When the sympathetic system's on, it pushes blood to the surface of the body to the muscles. You know, five, six of the blood in your organs, when you're working out real hard, can come out into the body to fuel athletic activity. So your arteries have to open up to surge all that blood up, right?

But when you get cold, once your skin starts to go numb, those sympathetic vessels stop trying to said, blood on the surface, because they call the hunters reflex. Now they constrict and all the energy, all the blood turns around and goes back into you as a protective device. So if you just alternate from getting to where the waters as cold as you can get it and then let it go as, you know, like if I'm in Toronto or up in Northern California,

like I just was the water's cold enough that after like three or four minutes of it, say on your neck, it'll make you skin go numb. Or your whole, like after I do heavy deadlifts, I let it, I try to get my whole back to go numb with the water. So I'm one of the coldest water I can get. And then once it goes numb,

I just turn around and let it do the front of myself. And then I turn around, I do that five, six minutes. And I learn to breathe and regulate my internal temperature by using my Chi and just using turning my parasympathetic on by controlling the pace of the out breath and breathing diaphragmatically. I do Tai Chi with little clothes on and cold weather to train myself to warm myself up. So what happens is that water is now oscillating. And if you really want to take a step further, you can do a minute of hot water, which will surge all the blood to the surface and turn the sympathetic system on, which would be like sprinting for a minute.

Then you do a minute or two of cold water and turn it back around, which would be like jumping in a pool of ice. It's funny because for hundreds of years we've been doing hot and cold punches. Right? And like now... This has been done in cultures for thousands of years, so this is part of religious ceremonies, and now science is starting to support it. Let me ask you this, Paul.

How long have you been doing that? I don't know. More long than 10 years? Probably 10 years,'t know. More long than 10 years? Probably 10 years. 10 years. I knew about it because I studied cryotherapy. When I was in my studies, I worked for four years in a physical therapy clinic, and I worked with a lot of elite athletes, and it was the largest physical therapy clinic in San Diego,

with 13 surgeons connected to us. So I studied a lot of rehab for post-surgical stuff. So I studied a book by night on cryotherapy, and it goes through all the physiology, and I studied guidance textbook of physiology, which shows you how the whole arteriovascular tree works. I've done five complete cadaverdized sections, and I've done it. So it was 10 years ago you were reading about cryotherapy? Oh, longer than that.

I was reading about crowd therapy probably in, when I was a trainer of the Army Boxing Team in 1983. So here's what trips me out. It's just now services to. I'm telling you, this guy, I mean, she just asked you what the next trend's gonna be. That's also going to say Paul, and you read so much.

This is the next trend. Oh, you guys. Yeah, that's cool. That's right. That's what I like to hear. Damn, oh, you guys. Yeah, that's cool. That's right. That's what I like to hear. Damn, I feel good about myself. You read so much. I paid you for that.

You know a lot about so many different subjects on a broad spectrum. I mean, 10 minutes ago you were talking about, you know, consciousness and God and, you know, religion and then now you're talking about cold and heat contrast and, you know, exercise and he contrasts and exercise, and we can talk about nutrition, we can talk about gut health,

we can talk about movement. This was mostly self-taught. Yes, I left school in ninth grade. This is mind-blowing to me because I feel pretty well versed when it comes to exercise and nutrition. Those are my areas of expertise, mainly exercise, especially exercise programming.

And we've talked off air about these subjects. And I've watched you, you did a few hours ago, you did some video with Taylor, or even before that, where you were doing some exercises and demonstrating your technique with the cables. And I've trained hundreds of trainers, they've worked for me. And me and Adam were watching you

with the way you're instructing, we're looking at each other. I'm like, this guy's a brilliant trainer. He's brilliant with the way he's delivering the message he understands how to exercise the body, but you have no formal, I mean, you have no, I guess, quote unquote, formal education is all self-taught.

Yeah, now what I did is I sought out the best people at whatever is it. So like for example, when I wanted to learn about how to work with nuclear extrusions or disc bulges. Because you just woke up one day and that's something. Well, because I had so many disc injuries coming to me all the time. I needed to learn, you know, what can you do with someone like this so you don't hurt them? So what I would do is research, talk to the best doctors in therapy and say, who, if you had to take a course from someone on how to centralize a herniated disc in the cervical

or lumbar spine, whose courses would you take? And I'd get a consensus. And so it would always point into one or two people, then I'd go study with them them And I got to the point after many many years I averaged $36,000 a year and continued education Just traveling all over the world taking these courses and sometimes I get special permission to get in because I wasn't a physical therapist or an osteopath but usually when they Find out who I'd work for and who knew me I would get in and I'd show them articles I'd written and that was usually enough. They said, oh, shit, we want to hear what you have to say. Then it got to the point where a lot of these people wanted to trade with me. Like certain elite therapists and doctors say, well, I want to learn some of what you want to learn. So how about a day each? I'll work. You answered my

questions for a day. I'll answer yours for a day. That's cool. And so, but last time I checked, because I had to do this to get my California State Massage Therapy license, because I maintain an active massage license as part of my work, we went through all my continued education certificates, and I had 5,000, I think 5,000 and 5,000 classroom hours from my certificates, because it states, because they're all for university credits and stuff. I had 5,000 and 5 classroom hours of certificates from the courses I've taken from experts all over the world, including an advanced training program in the Czech Republic in Prague with Vladimir Yanda and Carol Levit, two of the greats of the musculoskeletal rehab world. So when you, looking at fitness kind of a whole, or let's say exercises a whole, do you have favorites that you've learned from

or where you saw the most growth in yourself spending time with? Like do you have any that come to mind or is it just a whole? I never really studied too many people in the exercise industry at all. I studied Eugene Sandow's books. Oh yeah, classic strong man.

Yeah. In fact, the Mr. Olympia, classic strong man. Yeah. In fact, the Mr. Olympia sales trophy is Eugene Sandow. Yeah, I learned a lot about program design from Charles Poliken. He was a good buddy of mine for many years. Considered one of the most brilliant. Yeah, we shared a lot of information. I was a consultant to him many times. I helped him get a job at the Chicago Bulls.

I co-developed a program with him, which is my initial program design course. So I used a lot of his research to help him get more known in the United States because he was unknown really in the United States. I could have used lots of different people's research to make the same points, but to support awareness of him because he was my buddy, I quoted a lot of his research for him. So I learned a fair bit from Charles, but I really didn't study with those types of people. I studied medical exercise physiology from very, very advanced rehab experts like Bjorn's Fenson and studied Ola Grimsby's work and people who are very, very elite in European countries, doing things that Americans are only recently learning

about, like, you know, 3,000 rep sets to regenerate tendons on the rotator cuff using micro fractions of the weight or unweighted exercise and various technologies. So I learned, in other words, I learned how to use exercise science and to build my own system by doing all sorts of assessments and studying what was working and what wasn't working and I've invented calipers to make certain measurements

that there was no measurements for in physical therapy or osteopathy, but I could see based on the mechanics of the body that these things needed to be monitored. Or for example, you've gotta know what the head position is, helping knowing what the angle of the first that these things needed to be monitored. Or for example, you've got to know what the head position is, helping knowing what the angle of the first rib is, tells me a whole lot about what's going on in your scalings and in your posture and in your breathing mechanism.

So there's many problems that will not respond surgically, even though they cut the scalings and they still have lots of problems because it's a deeper problem that's. So I invented calibrated instruments so I could make postural measurements. And I was one of the first people probably in the world to develop a very comprehensive orthopedic and neurological assessment and repeatedly do it so that I could see exactly to the degree what was happening to a person's body when I put them on specific

exercises and could tell you right away within as little as a week when an exercise was actually making their structure worse, their lumbar curve too flat, their head too forward, their body too rigid, their coordination was getting worse, not better. I did biomotor assessments, so flexibility, agility, strength, coordination, speed, power, balance. I mean, you know, a check level four practitioner is knows how to do an assessment that takes four complete hours to do to gather the raw information. How are you doing a neurological assessment? What were you doing? Were you using a tool

or? Well, I was doing sensory testing with pinwheels and finger drag tests testing for the autonomic function. You can test with skin drag to see if there's sweating, to see if the autonomic portion of the nervous damage, we do muscle testing for the motor function of the nerves, so we use health appraisal questionnaires to manage the vagal systems, so the internal systems. So everything that an orthopedic surgeon would do or a neurosurgeon would do or a physical therapist would do, I've incorporated all that into my program because I had to master all that because they sent me the toughest cases

that they didn't know what to do with. I have a question for you, Paul. So most people, the reality is most people are motivated towards fitness because of, for cosmetic reasons, for aesthetic reasons, right? People go to the gym because they wanna lose weight because they don't like the way they look or they wanna look more attractive

and for whatever reason. It's beautiful. Which is fine. What is, what does the, I would like to give you two scenarios. You've got two people who are both lean and muscular, but one person's healthy and the other person isn't. Yeah.

What do you see fit, we can you tell physically between the two of them, between the healthy and the unhealthy person, because you can get lean and muscular and be very unhealthy. I'm the guy that coined the term fit sick people for what's going on in the world today. That's 20 years ago, I was saying,

we've got a world full of fit sick people. And you know, Australians call it mirror muscle. They think they're fit if what they can see in the mirror looks good. Like a lot of guys only train the front of their body because I can't see the back of their body. So you see big chests, rock hard abs, and a torso that's suing its legs for lack of support to quote Charles Pollocken.

But the difference is first of all, and this is where being trained as a check professional is very important because there's a difference between just looking at someone and feeling someone. So let me ask you a question. When you get into an elevator with 10 people that you don't know, how is it, you know, the guy standing next to you is having a shitty day, you know, the guy on the other side, he's having a good day. How do you know that?

I'll look on their face the way they carry themselves, their energy. Yeah, and you don't even have to see them. You can feel them. You can walk into a room where someone's just had a big fight and feel the tension. So I look at people and see what happens when I put my awareness or my attention on them. Does it energize me? Does it make me feel emotional? Does it make me feel afraid? Anxious nervous. I allow their energy to take over my internal system so I can feel what it's like to be them. And then I know exactly what's going on. What do we feel like? You guys, Adam. I want to know. I want to know, fucker. What do we feel like? You each have very unique we feel like? You each have very unique tones. Adam, you're handsome. Thank you. Well, that's a good thing. You have to be handsome. You're on the mind. Don't make them just feel good. Don't make them just feel good. Paul, don't, don't, don't butter them up like that. Don't do that because he's so honest. He's just open a door.

He's gonna say some shit that hurts my feeling. You don't want that. You're like a youthful, vibrant, young athlete, like a Eugene Sando when he was about 24. Wow. Wanting to conquer the world, but you're also paradoxically at this point now where you realize that to become the man you really want to be is going to require a different kind of work.

So I see you transitioning now from the young warrior to what I call the king or the queen where you have to get really clear about where you're going to invest your energy moving forward because there's a part of you that says, we don't have a lot of time for experiments that don't work anymore because I'm not into not accomplishing my objectives. Tell me that doesn't sound like me right now. Did you write that down from the screen? I didn't write that down, bro.

That's it. He felt that shit. That's some weird shit I'm leaving. Yes. Oh, you're next. So tell me that doesn't hear. Oh, you're next. So tell me that doesn't hear. Huh? Yeah.

You're, um, you know, the vision that comes to me is the tarot card, the judge. Um, your energy and the image that rises up in me is of a judge who sits on a bench and hears everything and he's seen a lot of bullshit. So there's a part of him that's very skeptical, but there's another part of him that says, I've been surprised before. So before I actually drop the hammer, I'm going to hear the other half of this story. And I also see you, I also see you having conversations with yourself while you're hearing someone like me talk. And it's an interdialogue that says,

what would I do if I had two wives? And how the hell would I handle that? What kind of trouble would I get myself in? And so there's a lot of, in other words, you spend a lot of time evaluating your own judgments of yourself I see going on. I see you really working at being honest with yourself and other people, not that you weren't before, but the judge is, when a judge makes a decision, it can put you away, right? No judge who's got any moral fabric wants to put someone away that didn't do the crime

so I see you as really an aspiring judge who sits in a position to allow people to share whatever is on their mind about any topic but also knows he has the responsibility of dropping the hammer when he shares bullshit. Boom. And there's a lot of responsibility that goes with that, right? Because when you're going to drop the hammer, it's like, there's always the fear of what if he is actually right and I'm wrong.

Now I'm going to drop it on my own foot and it's going to hurt. What if I hurt this person and they're just immature so they're really desperately trying to get someone to listen to them even though they don't realize how silly they're sounding right now to someone who already knows better than that. So there's a lot of responsibility. So it creates an inner wind. It's like a cat that's always constantly got to be aware when it's walking in another cat's territory. I see that for you, your next stage is really embracing that your intention is always to be fair and loving and letting the cat relax. Because the judge really has to do a lot of thinking. The next stage of the judge is to no longer think but ask something greater than itself what the truth really is. Because all

the judgments that we can make with our ego or with our own mind are actually made of those paper boats we were talking about, right? So the things when you're saying, that guy's fully shit, well, maybe you don't understand him. Because a lot of people say when Paul Chekk says, light comes out of food and light is an information source, say he's fully shit, but the next thing you know, two years later on the news, Fred's Albert Pops research showed,

I think, oh fuck, I've been telling everyone that guy was an asshole, he was an idiot for two years now. And he was telling the truth, damn it. Right. So you're at a point in your life from my perspective as a shaman who reads energy like that where you're now taking the road less traveled, which is how do I bring my level of filtering bullshit and support of growth of human beings to the level that reflects my actual intention and not maybe my fear of being wrong or my need to have it a certain way.

And that's quite a one, so the... Hashtag the judge. That's the hashtag the judge. I like that. The tip I have for you in that regard is don't rush a simple rule count to 10. Here your own judgment like you always do, but count to 10 and ask the deepest part of yourself, is there something that I'm missing here that would change my opinion if I was to see it? And if the answer is yes, then smell out what it is.

Dig deeper into that person. Why do you believe that you should eat that way? Why do you, what is your belief that will happen? What is, what got you into all this nutrition stuff? Well, you might find that it was driven by tremendous fear because both of that person's parents died of cancer and they felt that if the parents would have just taken a natural health approach that the medical system

wouldn't have killed them. So now they're on a vendetta. So maybe they're just a bit over zealous. So my point is once you start going underneath it and seeing what is the belief behind the behavior You often find that you can see more than a judgment on the evidence could make Where now before you were judging what they were saying now you're realizing there's a person in there that's wounded and doing their best to share what they think is true But you can see how their perspective got shaped. Does that make sense? It does.

So that's where I see you're growing into taking the time, but the secret is, is count to ten and ask something deeper than your mind, because there's a fast judge and a strong judge in you. And it got you here, which is why it's so important, because it got you here, which is why it's so important because it got you here. And then slowing that down just for those few extra seconds, which sounds easy, but wait till you see how quick those Bruce Lee reflexes are and you start watching them. So it's true. And Justin, we got a lot of work.

And we got a lot of work. We're not for chew on this for a while. We might need to do another podcast for this one. I'm going to share this openly and honestly because I know you guys are like brothers and this. It's important for me to be honest. Um, just in your easier one for me to read, because you actually carry a lot of the same pains that I carried. And I can feel them in you. Um,

I would summarize you by saying, your biggest challenges, you're not sure who you'll be if you let. The love come out of you that sometimes you have to hold back for whatever reason it is. Whether it be fear of not being understood or whether it be needing to protect a wound inside of yourself from earlier times in your life. But, you know, Sel, when we were talking about how we started crying a lot, when our kids were on the way,

that's for a guy with your upbringing, your profile and the things that you've done to make yourself feel safe as Justin when when those tears start coming through you. The first thing that happens is you get thoughts like, fuck if any of my friends saw me right now. I think I was just out of it, man, like something really wrong with me. It's quite a walk on the wild side to let the feminine energy flow through you. But you know you're not really whole as a man until you're willing to allow yourself to feel Defending it internally. Is that your thing? Huh? I'm too manly. No, I don't know. I'm getting. No, you're not too manly

Yeah, at all. I think you're you're beautiful. I just think that You're at a point now in your life where as you see the bigger picture and feel the experience of what it really means to be alive and little things like connecting to your food and paying close attention to how thin the thread is between life and death for us is. I mean, we assume good water will always be around. We assume the air will always be breathable. We assume there will always be food at the supermarket. We assume that we're relatively safe if we

go to a hospital, but we know at the same time people are destroyed every minute of every day by making that assumption, right? And I just think that your profile is one that you're at a point in your life right now where you're going to find that it's too hard of work to maintain the strength, the power and the protective mechanism that was once necessary because something inside you says it's work in the wrong direction. But then you'll also find it's quite scary when a girl starts talking to you about how much she loves you and all of a sudden tears are coming to your eyes and you can't stop them anymore. And part of you is thinking, what's going to happen if she sees me crying? Or, you know, it's a strange feeling when that much love starts to come out of you.

And it can really challenge your conditioning. And I remember both of my wives laughing their head off at me because some of the singers on the voice could make me cry profusely. Like I'm like, oh my God. Like when I hear Christine Aguilera sing and watch her dance, it is like seeing God embodied. I mean, this woman can sing and dance so good. It's almost non-human. That's my opinion of Christine Aguilera.

And I cry a lot when I watch her because it's just like I am seeing the the potential of a woman to be beautiful intelligent artistic capable athletic at such a high level of synthesis that it's so inspiring to know that there's even one human being that has accomplished that much perfection of self-expression, that it breaks me open emotionally to know that millions of people are watching that same woman I'm watching right now and getting touched at the conscious, the unconscious level. And so as we as guys start really experiencing the emotion inside of us that part of us used to hold back for fear of what people might think, especially other guys, we come to the realization one day, wow, I've been holding back all this stuff since I was a kid all the times that I really wanted to cry

because someone upset me or punched me in the face or whatever it was and I held it back to be a tough guy, you realize all that's still down in there and it's like a well of the stuff. guy, you realize all that's still down in there and it's like a well of the stuff. And when it starts breaking up to the surface and it comes with little things like a kid being born or, you know, someone writing you a letter saying, how much your show touched their heart. And then all of a sudden you feel it and you, that every minute, just like Sal has to make judgment, you're going to say, do Am I going to let this stuff out? And I'm just saying when you relax into that, I think it's almost like a beautiful flower is going to just feel the full force of the sun and parts of you are going to open and it's going to be so

you're going to feel so connected. It's going to almost be like you're living in another person's life. But at the same time, I think you'll look back and go, if I had had done that sooner, I wouldn't have appreciated it as much as I do now. And now I can connect with how many men are really desperate on the inside for that moistening of the feminine energy, but so afraid of what it means to even admit that. Hashtag the flower. Well, I'll tell you what, that was nailed it. Yeah, that was a...

That was a weird and I don't mean it in a negative sense. I mean, in a very eerie, like you hit it right on, and we didn't talk. Yeah, they could, they could have told you. Yeah, that's very, very, and you're saying this is from your shaman training. Well, my shaman training is really my life training. You know, when I joined the Native American Council,

which requires you to go through a course of shaman training, I spoke to the chief of the organization and said, look, you know, I know you have this course that I have to do to get these credits, but would you be willing to look at what I've created through my in check institute? And I have a program called PPS Success Mastery, which is 12 lessons based on the area that after many, many years of coaching people, I found there's 12 common roadblocks to living your dream and being free as a human being. So I built a lesson for each of the common roadblocks. So that's my PPS success mastery program. So I asked Cloud Piler if he would look at that. And if he felt that I needed to do the training because I wasn't qualified to be a shaman through his organization without the training,

that I would do it. And so he got back to me and said, what you're teaching is way more comprehensive than what we require. It is no need for you to do it at all. In fact, we would like to talk to you about how to make your material accessible to our members. So he gave me a grandfather in. But my point is, my shamanic training is really studying what a shaman is and studying great teachers like Arnold Mendel who wrote the book The Shaman's Body and many other fantastic books and who's the developer of process psychology and was trained as a Jungian and as a genius, right? If you haven't studied any of Mendel stuff Arnold Mendel. and people like Terence McKenna and Alex Gray and Ken Wilber and Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung and working with people who are just very, very sage-like with a lot of life experience and doctors and therapists that I've met over the years, I gained enough understanding of the subtle energy structures of reality. And you know what

the shockers stand for, what they mean, what is the emotional field, the astral field, what is the mental field, what is the causal field, what is the field of non-being or non-existence or what is Wujee versus Tai Chi. You know, so when you understand that a shaman's function is to create harmony, and a shaman's function is to deal with you on whatever level of reality you're having challenges, which could be the mental level, the emotional level, it could be in past life situations. Some of these things are too technical to really explain in this kind of situation. So I have to kind of breeze over it, but that's what a shaman really is. And there's as many different kinds of shamanas, there are different kinds of exercise coaches or dance teachers, right?

So shamanas kind of just like gross term, like training. Now do shaman fall because, you know, it was obviously lots, there's lots of shamanas, just like there's lots of trainers. Do you have shaman that fall in that same trap of putting on a band-aid, helping someone they leave, come back, I help them again, and they leave and come back, rather than, okay. They do.

I've worked with many people that have gone to shaman and people like John of God in Brazil, and actually, number of my advanced students have gone off and done comprehensive shamanic training programs. And one of the guys that just took a course from me in England maybe a year ago when I released my check for co-agent mastery, coaching mastery program is in an advanced training program

in the jungle. And he had been on his first rounder training for four months. And I explained in class, as a shaman, the reason I teach the kinds of or practice the things I'm teaching here is because if people don't look at the beliefs behind the behaviors, they will keep repeating the same belief over and over again and therefore the same behavior, no matter where they go to a shaman and get their pain taken away with feathers, drums, crystals, or psychedelics. Right? It doesn't matter what happens. If you keep lifting wrong, you're going to keep hurting your back as a metaphor.

And all the aspirin and all the magic in the world will only take that pain away. A few hours. So, um, there is the same problems in shamanism because most shaman don't have adequate training or knowledge of the human soul, the human life cycle, the human life experience, and the depth of things involved, such as diet and movement, right? They might know a lot about the different worlds, or have a very complex model of mythology, or theology that they can work with, or teach you how to dance, or chant or sing, but if they don't know how to teach you how to dance or chant or sing.

But if they don't know how to teach you how to eat or how to move your body correctly or how to set goals effectively dot, dot, dot, then you know, it's kind of like every philosophy, my philosophy is that you can't go any lower in a living philosophy than being aware of what makes you happy, what you're willing to do to create happiness for yourself. You have to be paying attention to what you put into your body because you literally are what you eat. You have to be aware of how you're using your body with movement to keep it nourished and fit enough

and healthy enough to do what it is that you call your dream. And you have to be conscious of what rest really is and how to use rest effectively. Or you can have all those things right. But if you don't know how to rest properly, you will burn yourself right out. You'll be a happy, fit, sick, tired person. And you'll have to learn to slow down.

So my point is you cannot take a living philosophy below rest, doctor quiet, movement awareness, doctor movement, happiness. What is it that I'm doing all this for? What is it that feels satiating to me? What gives me a sense of willingness to participate fully in life? And then Dr. Diet, how am I feeling the adventure

and nourishing it? If you have a philosophy that misses any one of those, you now have a wheel that will not roll. Take a four spoke wheel, knock one spoke out, and it goes flat, it can't roll. And so once you get down to the the number four which is the number of wholeness numerologically if you go deeper than that you end up with problems in living biological systems. Excellent. What is there one thing you could leave our listeners

with one piece of advice that you could leave our listeners with, one piece of advice that you could leave them with that they could take and start applying? Yes, how, quote, Ticknot Han, a flower is made of non-flower elements. When you're looking at a flower, there's nothing that you're looking at that was made by a flower, there's nothing that you're looking at that was made by a flower. It is all earth, water, sunlight, and air and space that make a flower a flower. Would you agree? Okay. Well, a human being is made of non-human elements. So we must remember that what we really are So, we must remember that what we really are is much grander than what we think we are, because just like it takes a whole universe to make a flower, it takes a whole universe

to make Sal, Adam, Justin, Dave, Paul, and every one of us. And if we realize that we're part of something so much bigger than we can conceive of, and that that is guiding us to being the fullest that we can be, then we will have the joy of opening, like the flower has the joy of opening, and the flower doesn't think about it. It just follows the sun. Excellent. Boom. That's awesome.

Mike drop, right there. Yes. Mike drop. Just like I expected, again, one of our more interesting and just exciting, I guess interviews. I just love the theory top. Truly appreciate it, hands me forward to more. It might pleasure.

No doubt in our mind that we'll be doing this a lot, Paul. You've been on a lot of shows, right? You've been interviewed a lot. Oh man, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Who's your favorite? You guys are right up there. Yeah. There we go. Now you guys are alive. You know, you guys are, you guys are so full of life and so full of love too. You know, I feel like I can have the joy of breathing and being myself with you guys.

And I want to thank you because it's hard for a guy like me to find a place where he can do that without having to look at a lot of people squirming and cringing and getting pissed off and getting stiff in the jaw and walking out of my lectures or walking out of my classes or whatever. So to be able to sit naked with you guys and enjoy it makes me feel like I'm at home and like I'm at heaven and for you guys to be able to do that at your age is pretty evolved. You guys are really pushing the envelope here. Excellent. I appreciate it.

Awesome. Thank you. Awesome compliment. Check it out. MindPumpMedia.com 30 days of coaching is still available for free. You can also find us on Instagram at MindPumpMedia. You can find my personal page at MindPumpSow. Adam at MindPumpBatum and Justin at MindPumpJestim. Thank you for listening to MindPump Media, you can find my personal page at MindPumpSout, at at MindPumpBatum, and just at MindPumpJestim.

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