Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 529: Ben Greenfield on His Testicle Mishap, Bodybuilding Career, Personal Motivation, Greatest Challenge & MORE

Episode Date: June 15, 2017

Fresh off his Spartan race, Ben Greenfield returns to the Mind Pump Media Studio to chat it up with Sal, Adam and Justin. In this episode, it get's personal where Ben talks about almost losing part of his manhood, being home schooled, the challenges of finding a best friend, pivotal moments in life and the future of his business. Get Ben's new awesome, healthy bar NatureBite at www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/naturebite Use the discount code "mindpump" for 15% in June. Get our newest program, Kettlebells 4 Aesthetics (KB4A), which provides full expert workout programming to sculpt and shape your body using kettlebells. Only $7 at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Got a beard? Condition your beard with Big Top Beard Company’s natural oils and organic essential oil blends to make it not only feel great but smell amazing! Get Big Top Beard Company products at www.bigtopbeardcompany.com, code "mindpump" for 33% off. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. We had our good friend, Ben Greenfield. Oh, you're about to hear a good little episode here. Visit us here in San Jose. He actually spent the night at my house and we made sweet, sweet love. Yeah, no, I believe you guys really bond it.

You were the, what do you say he's the little spoon? No, he's a big spoon. Yeah, were you little spoon in it? Oh, it's been. So Ben is a, one of our, I mean, great guy. Like we first saw him because he was racing in the Spartan race when he was up here. And we went and see him up there.

Then we hung out with him. We had a great dinner with him. We maybe drink a little bit. I don't know. You might hear that in the episode coming up. But we had a great dinner with him. We maybe drink a little bit, I don't know. You might hear that in the episode coming up. But we had a great time with Ben. He's a very intelligent guy, but this episode gets a little deep, right? We talk about Ben, his life. We talk about more personal stuff.

I can't wait. A little bit of fitness. I was not here, so I can't wait to listen to this one. Oh yeah, that's right. He's sat in your chair, Justin. I know. It's pretty sure. I asked him questions that nobody's ever asked him. Oh yeah, that's right, he's sat in your chair, Justin. I know. It's pretty sure. I'm pretty sure.

I asked him questions that nobody's ever asked him before and got him talking about things that he's never talked about on the podcast before. So he's one of our favorite podcasters. You can find his podcast. It's called Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast. His website is bengreenfieldfitness.com. His Instagram is at Ben Greenfield Fitness and he's released a new energy bar now we're not big fans of bars and stuff like that but i'll tell you what

i kind of like his bar uh... it's minimally processed it's got good ingredients it actually tastes pretty good and we bullied him to giving uh... our fans of discount that's not only do we believe in the given us our fans discount a better discount than you can get anywhere else because the affiliate code was supposed to be 10% And I strong aren't him strong armed him into giving us more than anybody else So I hooked it up mind pump if you go to the checkout make sure you put mind pump no space all one word That's impressive because he has like a really percent discount on those parts I love them. I've been using them consistently now. So here we go. Here we are talking to Ben Greenfield.

Can you hear Ben? My blue light blockers are cutting off blood flow to my ears. Dude, why are... First of all, you're in the funny chair. That's Justin's chair right there. The chair does smell a little funny. And it's a mess. Some of them are... This is true. Dude, tell Ben about how Justin had got to see you. What's Saturday when we come over to see you

at Spartan Race, right? And you introduce us to Hunter. And that really hard, super steep Spartan race that I did that you guys didn't do. Yeah, yeah, that would be you. Yeah, right. Definitely not. First of all, we ran out of gas on the way there.

So that's our, that's right there that tells you, we shouldn't compete in a Spartan race. It's a classic Spartan race excuse. Exactly. So we get, I was gonna do the bar fire, but I ran out of gas. Ironically, okay, when we were at the 7-11 that was right across the street from there,

we saw a bunch of like Spartan wannabes or whatever, like the people that look like they're gonna do the race, but they don't. I didn't know that, I didn't know this existed until this moment because like a whole crowd of them and I told Taylor, I said, oh hey bro, let's go just interview these guys. They probably just finished the race. They're coming to the...

We're like climbing on the gas pumps. No, but they were, there was a whole mob of them. You know that they had the tall socks and the head bands and the Spartans shirts on and stuff. So one of them had like the war pain on his face, all that stuff. And I go, hey man, did you just race? He goes, oh no, I missed my time. I missed, and there was a whole group of them.

What do you mean I missed my time? You get like in a lot of time that you're supposed to start the race. Yes. That's like the dream I had. You know like the dream where you go to school in your underwear or like your teeth are falling out or you can fly.

I've had that dream before where you sleep to the race or you miss your start time. I just thought it was. So how did you care about the race? How did you do, by the way? How did you do in this last one? This sucked. Really?

What does that mean for you? Because I feel like sucked. Like how many you means like, I know you didn't like this. Oh, I only ran like the second fastest person. I did. I didn't run very fast. That happened to me in the race before that too.

We were talking about this beforehand. Oh, yes. You were telling me about it. That's what I did. I did a whole new protocol this winter of lifting and gymnastics and sitting on airplanes. I think it's possible. Last one.

Because in the Seattle race, I had just flown in from, I was back ease and then for this race, I just flew in from Bulgaria. I'm not sandbagging, but I that's sitting for like 24 hours before the race It affects your mind. Is it always the same side and I warm up. Yeah, it's always the right side It's always the right side joint. Yeah, there's I think sitting for that long. There's a recruitment pattern issue That's I mean, that's a hundred percent what it's pointing to but the hard thing about Athletes like yourself because you're so

Highly trained you're so highly trained, you're so, yes, handsome, but that has nothing to do with what I'm about to say. You're also very fit, is that your body is exceptional at compensating. So it can be very difficult to identify a recruitment pattern issue on someone like you. Plus my right testicles, just fucking huge.

Yes. That's the part. That's the part. That's the part. My rat I get like shaping on my right thigh so sitting long so sitting for a long periods of time hurts the SI joint for you I I that's the only variable that was the same like like if I look at both my last races like they're not that they're weren't that great So no, I wasn't happy. I hope how how competitive you did like was how you guys showed up

And you all left over the fence to the race, but sell. No, I'm glad he called you out. Tiny little fence and they're standing there talking and like, why don't you guys come over here into like the into like the race and I'm like, okay. And you just like kind of, you know, it steps over the fence. And then who was I think I think Justin that leaps over the fence and then sell walks the hundred yards like around the bathroom. You're out of Spartan race.

It's okay to jump fence. You know, the funny thing is, it's the entrance is, the entrance is right over there. I saw. I don't understand why I need to jump over the fence. Let me just go into the entrance. I feel like I made the smart decision.

Let me tell you how much I know my boy is I saw, I saw for a moment there, he thought thought about it like he looked at the fence He saw me hop over then he saw Justin and he thought what do my pants catch? What if I don't make it cross his mind just for a split second there was a split second here surrounded by obstacle course racers. I don't want to be the guy Exactly. You imagine how embarrassing that would be and there's a pretty there's a bit of it very there That's smart in his own way right there, because he saw that he's like,

if all the places I'm not gonna make a fit here, we're out. Yeah, we're out. Just a hand. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of obstacle race people that are hopping over doing crazy shit. Sal is not gonna as fail at that. That's splinter.

I'd rather be me, I know him. I'd rather be me fun for walking around the fence and actually attempting the next. It's this one time, dude, that I stepped over the fucking chains and McDonald's and I pulled the whole line down with me. But then the funny, everybody came down with me. So we got to watch the game. I spilled nuggets everywhere.

We got to watch the game tonight at the bar. Oh yeah. And I give Sal a hard time and I kind of jump over the fence to like get into the bar. And so like 10 minutes later, turn around, Sal's getting there ready to jump over the security guards, come over there like, sir, please, please step down immediately, step down.

So they knew that you have a fence problem. They did. And they did. And they saw Ben do it. And they're like, let that guy do it. He can obviously do it. And then they saw me attempt and like, sir, so yeah, you're gonna hurt yourself.

Because they saw a lawsuit. Come over here, they saw a lawsuit, right? There's a ramp over here on the side. You tell him 48 inches. Okay, please go around. Listen, I'm extremely agile. I'm extremely agile. I'll show you guys one time. Now, Ben, you said you played sports grown up, right? What sports did you tell tennis was my main sport? Okay. Yeah, tennis and chess and violin. Mm-hmm. He's through chess in there, chess. There's competitive violin.

Mm-hmm. He's competitive. No, I don't think so. Like your right hand gets really sore. Yeah, like the right, the right upper vise. Did you really play the violin? I did for 13 years. Wow, you don't have the, what do they call that in the neck?

No. A hikki? No, but when they get the violin players will get like leathery like skin right? Well, yeah, you got to kind of hold it against your shoulder. Yeah, little little It's a catalyst. Yeah, it's kind of like that was a term for it If you actually watch a violin concert or you go Google violin concert and and like do a close-up of there's like a big pad Yes, I'm the side of the violin. Yes, that's supposed to go up against your shoulder. Yes, but I was, my family was not wealthy, so the way that we did it was I had a rubber band

and a piece of foam that we get from like Joanne's fabric, so we just kind of rubber band that to the violin. So that probably saved my ass. So I neck. I think the violin's one of my favorite instruments. I played the trumpet. Oh, yeah. I played the trumpet for three years.

I couldn't see that. Yeah. Some of my lips, what were you gonna say? I have a it for three years. I can see that. Yeah, um, some about my lips. Uh, what were you gonna say? I have a challenge for us today. Uh-oh. Yeah, I want to see, because this is totally not formal, right? We were all violent off.

No, you know, not a violent off. I want to challenge ourselves to, uh, on this fitness podcast, to not talk about fitness. This is fitness podcast. Yeah, as much as we possibly, so we're not allowed to talk about fitness. Yeah, I want to stay away from that day, because here's, here's a, a perfect opportunity after we just hung out.

We had some drinks, had a good night, and then stopped by the studio. Let's be honest, I just drank half a bottle of sake, and I'm high. Right. What? What? What are you talking about, Ben?

Anyways, can still add them. I'm just at a mommy. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna like, and this would be good, because I haven't even asked a question like this from Sal. So let's, I wanna go back to high school. Oh no. For both you, and I want a memory.

This ought to be fun. And we're gonna, you know I was homeschooled K through 12. That's okay, this is fair enough right here, right? So I, as a, that age K through high school, somewhere between freshman, senior year in high school, I want a moment that you remember that was tragic to you, and then a moment to you that was like, probably one of your happiest or exciting moments

in that time frame. So first one, tragic, so, and I want both because this is an international. That comes to mind. I think I'm gonna be a really sad podcast. No, it doesn't have to be, let me try, I mean, like, this is it. My took mom's pills and tried to commit suicide on my dog.

I hit by a car. It doesn't, let me, let me rephrase it then. It's not to be true. How about just something that my brother attacked me with a sickle or the timing spray to something that I'm facing bare-mins? No, okay, let me back it up. Okay, let me back it up.

Tragedy goes not a good word. That was not a good word for that. How about something that, that you know that has formed you into the man you are today because of what happened to you. And it doesn't have to be necessarily tragic. It's just something that has some transformative moment. Yeah, okay. Well, form me into the man that I am today,

literally like the worst injury of my life happened when I was in high school. Oh, what up? I had a dirt bike course. My brothers and I were big in a dirt biking. And I was on our home dirt bike course in school because we were homeschooled, right? So we get out of school like 10 a.m.

and just go up barefoot and play in the dirt and roam the hills the rest of the day. And that's why homeschoolers are so smart, by the way. This is actually true, by the way. It's the best thing to do with the pace of the classroom or independent education or anything. So the fact that we get out of school early and go play.

And go play. Yeah. And I, well long story short, because it really did turn me into the man that I am today. I hit a rock. My front wheel hit a rock at about 45 miles an hour. I flew over the handlebars and I was all by myself when I flew over the handlebars at that speed. The only thing that slowed me down was my crotch hitting the handlebars. So I got what, what they call a testicular contusion, meaning that my balls within a day were swallowing

to like the size of grape fruits. And I'm being really pissed cause I couldn't play basketball. Like, wait, cause I was like wobbling like a cowboy for weeks and like they took me to the doctor and they didn't know if I was gonna be able to have babies until I actually had babies. And so it actually was a pretty like for a boy,

right, to basically have your junk just get an angle. They got crushed that hard. And so were you on the ground just forever? Because I was on the ground by myself for four hours when I filled. Yeah. So did it scare you away from there?

And one of the guys who was like gardening up in the hills found me. Wow. Did it scare you away from riding again? Or did you do not? Yeah, really? I didn't go near a dirt bike for like two years. Really?

I was old when this happens. My balls would quiver with fear. I was 14. I was 14. I was 14. 14 years old. Wow, that's a horrible age. Yeah, I didn't go into the guy.

That's when they're really primed too. Oh yeah, I remember like the urologist. He was like, you know, he shines like the flashlight on your balls to look at the damage. You can like see all the, you ever do that before at him? No. Where you shine the light and it goes through the other side.

It is kind of cool. And if you're not in, you're just kind of fun. You shine your light, you take the flashlight, you put it up your, your ball and you shine through and you can see that, like go in there. You're the dark sometime and just like shine a flashlight at your balls, it's kind of cool. You can like see through them because they're kind

of transparent. Do you hear that, you hear that, hun? Yeah. He's not, and just like shine a flashlight at your balls. It's kind of cool. You can like see through them because they're kind of transparent. You hear that, you hear that, hun? Yeah. He's not, we've been doing that this whole time. Yeah. I don't know, it was a medical thing. We'll try that. That's a medical thing.

Wow. Uh, you know what, I think it's cool. I think you, I was just telling Jessica, we were talking about this, how you used the body build. She's like, no, you didn't. I'm like, yeah, you did. You see the cool thing, yeah, you.

Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty, I did. Going from there to this whole, like, to where you are now, that's such a drastic switch or change, right? Going from bodybuilding to, like, you went to triathlons? Yeah.

What made that switch so quick? I just like to try all sorts of new things. Really? Yeah, that's probably why I'll be like golfing in two years Subgaining obstacle course, which would you into now or paddle boarding yoga? What's what's really getting you excited? Oh wow He was handsome. Yeah, there he is. Oh wow How old are you right there? How'd you find that? How old are you right there? Just Google? Huh? I'm a 22 22 years old, so I was I was about to 10 to 15, but you know what I think in that show, I was

about 198 because I, I, um, bro, that's a good weight though. I hit state, I hit stage at 203 at USA. So you, we weren't that far off and you're house tall. You six what? Six to six to close on like six to half. We're like, when you train for hypertrophy, you put on muscle pretty easily. Well, I've done the genetic testing to determine like your fast twitch, slow twitch, muscle fiber capacity, and that's a pretty good. They've done some interesting studies on that. How if you're built for power

or you have higher fast twitch and you train for endurance, your results are not efficient at all. Advice versus. Right, so I like that the type one and type two can act like the other one though They can but if your genetics determine that you'll respond better to a certain type of training You actually do respond better to that so I'm like 90% power

So I respond really really well to like full body heavy lifts Mm-hmm, and that's exactly what I don't do to prepare for endurance competition You always trained for the for the slow twitch stuff the endurance stuff right exactly But I'm better oriented for like power fast switch, but he but it does mean that even in training for endurance I do better if I do do the short fast stuff. It's just it's in many ways not conducive to it. So as soon as you start training that way you just find your body wants to build. Yeah. Oh wow. How much do you weigh right now? 175. Oh wow. So that's like a right now? 175. Oh wow. Solid fence. That's like a fizz hopping muscle bit.

Yeah, that's a lot of, I mean, one, two, two, two, that's 30 more pounds of beef on you right there. That's no joke. Well, I was sponsored by ABB Bodybuilding Shakes. Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. This things are fucking horrible.

It was ABB Redline was another one, like for caffeine. BPS, right? Yep, yep, yep. And then there was a ball. BSN or? Then there was a bar or a cookie that all the gyms had. I've ever go to a wall.

Oh, I know. Oh, you're talking about the big one. The big one under like metrotene puck that tasted like chalk. Yeah. Oral. You actually were you, like, real sponsored by ABB? Or is it just because you took all their shakes?

No, I was sponsored by them. For real? Yeah. They would actually send crates and cr took all their shakes? No, I was sponsored by them. For real? They would actually send crates and crates of the shakes to my house. That stuff was horrible. Blue Thunder. Did you take that one? Tell me where you're at. Tell me where you're at and your business career around this time and what made you go

this route? Did you grow up? I was in college, dude. I was just studying, exercise physiology and this was on a dare. Somebody just dared me to do a bodybuilding show with them So I started lifting more and I didn't drink alcohol and barely any carbohydrates for like six months No, that's hard lost the way. Did you did you okay? So you and any just a crap ton of protein high high high protein low-carb low fat diet What how you must have felt great to in tuna fish out of the cans with relic.

She must have felt amazing. Slab a meat on the couch. Yeah, right, exactly. To a total sex symbol who couldn't get a boner. Yeah. testosterone goes plummeting with the iodine. It's horrible. Yeah.

The only other sport that could do that to you was the sport I did after that. I'm in traffic. I'm in traffic. So there are a few years there. I feel like your balls take a lot of punishment. You smash them. That's true.

Then you kill them with bodybuilding and then. Don't forget he shoves a lot of flashlights up there. Well that's why that he does that now though. With the red light. That was the tragic part though. What was the other part of the question? Oh, what was something great that happened? Oh yeah, yeah.

It was fun. Wait, do you have to say the tragic part first? I can't even think of anything. It doesn't have to be tragic that we fucking back to where he breaks that. It has to be something transformative. I think that was perfect. Great growing up as a rich self-boiled kid and I've got hurt sell Okay, so it was tragic and then something no get rid of get rid of tragic transformative moments In your high school life stuff that happened when you were a high school kid was also losing my balls Or almost losing my balls.

Okay, you guys are thinking backwards. Let me help you out here. Look at yourself as men today. The habits that you have, your fears, your insecurities, the things you love, your passion about, and ask yourself, what are some of the things when I was in high school that helped form that trait inside of me?

Is that better for you? I got some. I got some. Thank you. When I was, I got some. Okay, thank you. So when I was, I must have been maybe 13 years old, and my grandfather from Sicily came to visit. And I think it was either the first or second time he'd been here.

It was pretty cool to see him see like big overpasses on freeways and stuff. And it's not that, you know, Sicily's backwards or anything like that. He just never went anywhere. He's stayed in a small town. He was very poor. Did he tell you that? So many things. He didn't speak anything like that. He just never went anywhere. He's stayed in a small town, he was very poor. So many kids, you bet, though.

He didn't speak English at all, actually. I appreciate that. But anyway, so we took my dad worked, you know, kind of construction work, right? And so my grandfather in the summer when he came to visit, my dad had to go to work still. So my grandfather came along. And my dad would take me as well to work with him.

And my job was to do all the hard grunt labor so like mix the cement carry the buckets in, you know, wash everything or whatever. So my grandfather who at this point is in his, I don't know, maybe late 60s is mixing cement with me and I'm watching this guy like, he's killing me and I'm 14 years old, I work out, I'm fit, I'm healthy, and we're mixing cement back and forth, and there's a water bottle next to us, but I won't stop to get the water because this old man isn't getting any water. And the whole time we're doing this, this guy is whistling the entire time, like whistling happy songs and having a great time, and I am absolutely dying.

And when we went home that night, I just realized that, you know, people can work really hard, and we have a tremendous capacity for work, and it kind of changed my perspective of things. I had so much respect for him, but they also had a lot of respect for just the fact that you can do quite a bit more than you think, because again, here's this old man

that's just killing me in this hard labor. So that definitely molded me. A week you are. I have mixed with the cement that I did. So all day long, see, I'm not even tired. Exactly. Do you remember how old you were?

I was probably like 14. Oh, forked. So early freshman year, I was young. Yeah, so while I was laying in a field with my balls, with my balls, me and my grandfather were born riding in pain. You and your grandfather were building an amazing thing out of cement.

Exactly. Ben, it was your first job. I feel like shit, dude. My first job would have been working in my dad's coffee shops because my dad decided he was like a serial entrepreneur. So when I was a kid, he started off as a firefighter. You know, everything makes sense when you hear his stories. Everything makes sense. And then he started off as a firefighter. You know, everything makes sense when you hear his stories. Everything makes sense.

And then he started off his own ambulance transport service until the local government put him out of business because like they don't want like a competing ambulance business competing with the city's ambulance service. So that started like a pager and communication service because he had all this communicate, like all these pages and stuff left over from the ambulance business.

And so all of us kids, we all look like drug dealers. We go over a page, but it was always just our mom, like pick up eggs on the way home from tennis practice or whatever, but we all had pages. And then after the page of business, he started a bagel franchise. And then after the bagel franchise, he started ordering, he built like an enormous like coffee

roastery at our house, which I don't know was legal or not, like in terms of like zone, because the whole neighborhood would be full of illegal coffee. But we lived a little bit outside of the city, so it was probably okay, but we would get these big burlap bags from Guatemala and Costa Rican, Tanzania delivered to the house

like every week and he would just go out there and roast coffee and then he started opening coffee shops and I got a job as a barista. So when I was 13, 14 years old, I was doing like 10 shots of espresso a day. No, you weren't. Yeah, totally. Really?

Everything makes sense. Like I've drank coffee forever. Everything makes sense. Were his business successful? Or was he like successful enough to take care of the family, but was he ever did anything ever really take off? No, nothing really ever took off.

Eventually he moved to Vash and Island and became a monk. And then he quit doing that. Now he sells structured water filters to farm and agriculture facilities. Do those work? He says the cows get bigger. Really? To drink the structured water. Interesting.

So that's super interesting. He also puts snickers and skittles in the structured water. It's amazing. Those cows just flourish. She's not so magic. Yeah. They drink the chocolate water crazy. When you're in a home school, what is it like for you as far as hanging out with other

kids? Now, we grew up in, I know, an era where going outside and playing with the neighbor's kid was probably more normal than it is today. I feel like kids don't do that very often. But did you go, was there other events that you met up with other home schoolers and did your family take you to certain things? Or did you go to camps every summer to engage? There's a whole community.

There's a whole whole community of van driving home schoolers and calico dresses. They're put having lots of children in the kitchen. No. and Calico dresses. They're put having lots of children in the kitchen. No, we actually, like, we had pretty good socialization because I was in Idaho where you can play sports for the local schools. That's allowed. At least it was when I was at home school. So you could be at home school,

but still play sports at the school. I like to play tennis for the high school and play basketball. Oh, wow, that's cool. So I had like some sporting outlets there. And then we had like really good homeschooling group where we would go out and do field trips, rock climbing and gymnastics and theater and art competitions and all sorts of stuff.

I was still a geeky little homeschooler, played violin and chess and made gingerbread houses and did watercolor paintings. Did you guys take a lot of like courses or was it all done by mom? So it was mostly curriculum because like when you're when you're homeschooled you can buy any any type of curriculum. Right. Like I homeschool my kids for a few years before I decided I was traveling so much and my wife isn't really a teacher that it wasn't fair to them

to use that model. But what my parents said was they had all these curriculums that they'd buy and then they'd basically just give them to us. And for me that worked really well because I've always just loved to read and be an independent learner. You're like, you're probably the perfect kid to homeschool. I was. You're just like here. I just kind of got screwed because they like a lot of them.

Like they didn't really want to read the books or do the work. They needed like more hands on like tutoring and teaching. But yeah, a lot of it was really hands off. It was just like, yeah, read this, learn it and take the test. And I wound up getting fantastic, you know, SAT scores and. I was just going to say in order to get into college, then you have to take certain tests. Yeah, take the test.

I forget what they are. So obviously, if you did your kids some years and probably would have, if you weren't traveling so much, you're a huge fan of it for sure. You can tell the way you talk about it. Anything you kind of, I mean, I'd tell you what, what I'm a fan of is outsourcing the things that are best left to the experts, to the experts,

and then doing a little bit of unschooling and homeschooling yourself. Meaning that like my kids go to a cool school now where they can learn like how to program Lego robots and they're learning Spanish and Chinese and learning how to play all these different African instruments. They all, all these things that I never probably would go out of my way to teach them.

Plus they're learning how to play well with others, how to be a good team player, how to proper the things. I actually was really pretty shitty at when I got out of homeschooling like I had to learn all that stuff late in life. When did you recognize that? Independent. You know, all I wanted to was lead as soon as I got to college. And when you get stuck, like, you're in a team of five people to complete some task, right? And you realize, like, unless you're leading every single part of it, you're unhappy.

And you don't trust anybody to do any of the work, except yourself. And you want to micromanage everything. And I still have to deal with that. And part of it might be personality, but then I think part of it is I just didn't really grow up cooperating with a team of peers around me. So I think it's good for a child to be put in that situation. I think it's good to have tutors or have a private school

or have some type of a school setting, right? And there's some people that are even doing like, forging like forest school. Then you have those things that you want to teach your kids when they get home from school. Like your job is to homeschool them, unschool them, I work with my kids on wilderness survival and foraging and shooting the bow and entrepreneurship

and cooking and all the things that they're not learning at school. And they always have the option, whether or not they actually want to be homeschooled or go to school. And I would love, like, once they get up to fifth or sixth grade for them to just branch off and start doing their own thing. But that's up to them. Right now, I'm gonna tell you right now, when we came to your house

and we had the first time we met, one of the things that everybody, as soon as we all walked out, like everybody was like, oh my God, he's like super dad, like his kids. And you could tell by your kids mannerisms, the way they look at you, the way they respond to you, the relationship that you've built with them, and then you could just see how intelligent they are too.

There I mean, it was pretty cool. I put the fear of God in them and hang them in the cages for a little while before company comes over. It's not like that whatsoever. It's in fact, it's exactly what you're saying is all that time. It's crazy to think of you beating somebody like you as much as you're flying and doing things and you've got,

and I know you handle a lot of your business all by yourself. So I feel like to still make time as a father to do those things. That's a big fucking deal. There's not a lot of men that are as successful as you are that still are managing their home life that well also. It was something that we all noticed right away. I think if you enjoy it, you know, you enjoy doing those things with your kids, then they just they just happen. But you know, all I remember is you said I had ugly hands. Yeah. Big. They're big hands. I think that's the future of education. I really, I think that's the future anyway is where you're

going to just have facilitators. People who are going to facilitate the learning through different, you know, means, you know, kind of like what he was talking about, like people I think they get the, and I don't hold maybe dude But maybe the future of education is VR and AI right like there's there's that possibility too Which I actually don't really like the idea of but you learn just about everything through a virtual headset and through artificial intelligence that Gat imagine way and I like Have I know this sounds alarmist, but just like having electrical pollution and Bluetooth and Wi-Fi next year head all day long

as you learn and interacting with the computer, like for your entire education, I would rather my kids be in the process. Well, as far as the dangers of the devices themselves are concerned, I think we'll figure that out. I think we'll definitely figure that part out. Now, the real question is, is the destination, the goal, or is the journey a big part of it?

And what I mean by that is, you know, someone can just give you answers to things, and you'll learn something from that, because you'll learn the answer. But then you'll learn a lot also from finding the answers, the journey that goes along. It's almost like when people talk about reaching enlightenment, and you've got monks talking about meditating for decades, and then you've got other people saying, well, I just take psychedelics, and I can see the same thing, and then they do brain imaging. They're like, oh, it's the same thing. They're a feedback. Right. And I think that some parts of it are, and I think a lot of parts of them aren't. There's a lot that comes from the process of learning,

the trials and tribulations, the dedication, learning how to mold your life because you have this particular goal or whatever. So as far as learning is concerned, we can create shortcuts and we'll know things, but I don't know if that's necessarily the same thing, you know what I'm saying? Because there's a lot that I've learned in the pursuit of trying to learn or figure out

the answer to something, going to a library. I can't tell you how many times I've researched a subject, but I've read so many other things because of the kind of the web of knowledge that it leads you down. And I just, I think that we'll see what happens. I think really the, I mean, if you wanna go that, it's very, I mean, and even the idea that back when I wanted to learn something, I'd go to the library and go to that section of the library.

We're all the books about that particular topic, where I don't have to leaf through the books and look through books that happen to be beside that book and just delve very deeply into the topic versus being able to just like laser target something on Google. Yeah, Google or Ted Talker Wikipedia now is slow. Now, granted, you can go down a rabbit hole on the internet just like you can go down a rabbit hole in a library,

but yeah, just that process of having to hunt down the internet library. Here's a deal Like if I'm if I'm reading on the internet like I'm in my room and I can boom click and I've got all this information And that's fantastic. There's nothing wrong with that But the process of going to the library the preparation that goes into this the mental one like I'm driving there I'm going to this place with all this knowledge. I'm here to learn. I'm in this space It's the reason why churches exist.

It's the reason why people go to places of worship and meditation. You can do that anywhere, but when you have that dedicated space, there's something that comes with that, the journey to get there. And I think that you have to value both. Like I said, I don't want to demonize technology because I think it's fantastic,

but I also think the journey is extremely important. You mean sitting in a dark basement watching porn is different than going to a coffee shop to talk to a pretty girl? Definitely. But they're both valuable. They both got value. They've got both got value to them. So, but yeah, you know, I think it's like this. Like they look at statistics with people who go to college versus people who don't, and they say, if you go to college, you earn this much more money. And they say it's because, oh, it's because they went to college. But they don't factor out the part that people who tend to go to college also tend to be a little more serious about what they're doing.

So part of the reason why they may be more successful is they're willing to go through the journey. And that necessarily the degree itself. Because I know lots of entrepreneurs were very, very successful who didn't go to college, but pursued that also on their own. They just had that structured thing or whatever. So that's kind of a little bit of the comparison I'm trying to make.

But I mean, moving ahead, I think we're gonna learn quite a bit from the home school and then some movement right now That's growing Very rapid. It's actually home schooling. Unschooling is another one where it's a huge movement like it used to be very fringe But now it's very very big and there's certain things that come from it that we can learn from like one of the things that I learned Which didn't even dawn on me until I had some clients who homeschooled their their kid and you know they kind of educated me Was how one of the things we do in schools is we put kids in the same classroom that are all the same age So like if you're six and you're in the same grade if you're seven you're in the same grade and so on and

That's actually not optimal for learning it actually encourages bullying it doesn't teach chronological snobbery. Yeah, like really wanting to only interact with your peers, having difficulty, you know, for me, like I actually for a very long time got along quite well with adults. Yes.

People were a lot, and I didn't actually do that well with my peers as well as I did with people who were a lot older. Because you were always around adults. Well, around adults are a lot more than if I would have been in public school. That's right. So one thing we can learn from homeschooling there

is to put classrooms and have kids of different ages. And again, there's a facilitator that's facilitating the education so each child can learn at a different rate, but what they want. They want a school house. I'm sorry? With a blackboard. And a teacher up front with the switch,

which he hit down the hand. Very motivated. And the corner with the dunce cap. But they find when they do this, older kids become, like, protective of the younger kids, and they kind of police the classroom. It makes total, it makes really, and it worked for Abraham Lincoln.

So, exactly. It makes me so proud. And you know, Ben, you talked about, you know, some of the drawbacks of being homeschooled and the working with others. When was the last time that you noticed that in your adult life that were a relationship where you're like, fuck, looking back,

I probably didn't handle that the best because I have a hard time with that. Like, do you still see that surface? Oh, all the time. I mean, even right now, I was telling Sal on the car, like I'm really working hard on building a little bit bigger brand right now. You know, like tomorrow, we're launching an energy bar for my website and I wanted to write all

the copy, all the emails, all the, you know, I did wind up doing a great deal of that because, and I paint myself into this corner where I'm just like having to work my ass off because I don't trust anybody else to do it or I'll see what somebody else will write. I'm like, nah, sorry, that's not my baby. That's not how I would have written it. And so I do really want to manage everything myself. And it's hard for me being able to build a team and scale my business still wanting to just do a lot of that myself. And even honestly, you know, something that I've had to work on a lot is just company culture. Right? Like, like, I'm so happy just doing things by myself. Sometimes I forget that, you know, something that I've had to work on a lot is just company culture, right? Like, I'm so happy just doing things by myself. Sometimes I forget that, you know, I need to actually talk

and get to know the social media manager and the COO and the person who's doing tech and the IT person. Like, I need to actually, you know, interact with these people on a daily basis when I'm just so used to just being introverted. Well, I can imagine that you probably assume just instinctually that they'll just do that. They're just gonna do work. You know what I mean?

Okay, you manage my social media site over there and just do it because that's what I would do. That's how you handle it. That's how you handle it. And I'm straight like, if you guys ever done anyagram personality type. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, great, great. Great, great. I mean, anybody listening is like 11, 12 bucks.

You go take this personality typing test. It's called a super, a neogram. A neogram. Super accurate. You learn a ton about yourself and how you tick and how you interact with others. We can send the results to other people. I can't remember what type I was.

How to interact with you. Well, I am the most extreme end of self-driven achiever that you can get to. Like the most extreme end of self-driven achiever that you can get to. Like the most extreme end. I will just take something and want to do it all myself and need nobody to ever talk to me to follow up and see if I'm actually doing it. Super self-motivated. So I just, I follow in a trap sometimes of assuming that everybody's like, like a self-driven

person who just wakes up wanting to conquer the world every morning, which is how I wake up. I hate to break it to you, dude. Most people don't like that. It's weird. It's also, it can be pretty limiting though, right? Because like you're saying, it's tough to... You're limited by your own personality.

Like my wife and I, we were talking about this at dinner too. Like we're like Ian and Yang, right? Like she doesn't take supplements and she doesn't have like a workout regimen and she doesn't care about, you know, any of the bio hacks or, you know, she's never even listening to one of my podcasts. But I see her, you know, she'll, like at five o'clock,

she'll be out in the porch for two hours, sipping glass of wine, sitting on the hammock, watching the trees. And I'm like, that is a foreign concept to me. Just like I would be out there for five minutes and I'd be like, well, what you wanna do? I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go, or I'm gonna go check this. I'm gonna go, okay, I got a project, downstairs,

I'll see you, I finished my wine, bye. And I like that's just, so when you, how do you meditate then? Very carefully. No, even meditation is difficult. Like, it has to be for a purpose. Like the kind of meditation that draws me at, you know, Kundalini or moving meditation

or even like candle meditation where I'm just watching something flicker and glow, just closing my, like I did TM, TM was really hard for me. Where you're just there with you and your mantra and your eyes closed and you're not focusing on your breath hours. You've got the mantra but that's about it and that kind of sort of distracts you, but yeah, it's tough.

Gosh, man. We're all very similar ones to that though. I mean, everything. Well, it's different. Do you think, is this what drives you to do all the biohacking? Because you're limited by, because I mean, you do do a lot. I've actually only one other person I've met who I would kind of craig is like that. Craig does a lot of shit on his own too, right?

It's super, super hard working. Yeah. But you're limited. You're limited by your physical ability. You can't possibly do everything you want to do. To turn over a lot of employees. Have you do go through a lot? No, I don't go through a lot of employees at all, actually.

And it's because I'm a people pleaser like I I just I Like you don't fire up. I don't I don't I don't I think I'll have I probably ever fired. I think one person. Oh wow Yeah, oh, what if they suck really didn't they had to they had to suck really bad right? Right, right. No, I have this process where I just gradually make them realize over the course of time that they suck so bad that they should probably quit. That's so inefficient. You messed up just spiral. You messed up again.

At least. Yeah, what was your question? Did you mention that? Is that what drives you? Oh, the biohacking. No, here's what drives the biohacking. And you guys are gonna realize this as fitness podcasters. You talk about this, we already know what you're gonna say.

Justin and I just talked about this. Cause eventually you're like, you run out of shit. You eventually, you're like, I talked about barbells three years ago, and I talked about how to do a kettlebell swing. And I talked about, you know, the values of a complete amino acid profile. And then you get to the point where, well, gosh, what else is there to cover in fitness?

And then you're like, maybe I'll talk about your circadian rhythm. Yeah, and then, and then, like, oh, I talked about the circadian rhythm, and by the way, there are special glasses that you can wear. And they're called blue light blocking glasses, and they're like, oh, I just went down that rabbit hole, and you've got that biohacker. And then somebody's like, oh, I heard your podcast on Blue Light Blocking Glasses, and I have this brand new 10,000-lux special light producing

earbud, I want to send you to check out. And they send that to you and you're like, wow, this is cool, this work. Maybe I'll mention this on my podcast. So you do that, and then there's some other person's like, oh, hey, I have some new form of coffee that I've infused with whatever. I wanna send this to you to try it

because I see now that you talk about some interesting things and then you get that and you're talking all of a sudden about like smart drugs and nutrients. The next thing you know, you got lights in your ears, you got weird glasses. The next thing you know, you're doing coffee animals in Thailand.

So yeah. This is exactly what Justin and I talked about the day. Like you know what I bet you I bet you've been was not like that when he first started I but he was talked about a lot of the same things we do but at one point you just you keep reaching if you Watch the evolution of the the stuff that we were talking about just two years ago and now it's oh yeah You see I'm but you also a host you know that's not a Q&A like I've done Q&A for 10 years. You structure your podcast based on the questions that people are asking and the way that we always do it is I will tell the person who now goes in

and picks the like questions that will answer on the show and stuff like that. I tell them try not to choose questions that cover things that we've already talked about on previous shows instead just tell that person Hey, go listen to podcasts and other Let's tell us about the best town Yeah, that's something that questions just get more and more friendjavier

But it's kind of cool because it keeps me educating myself too when I get a question I don't know the answer to when I have to figure out what the answer is. I mean you actually You get a very targeted education that's precise to what your audience wants Have you ever shared this with your audience, but you're sharing right now? Because I think that's really cool because I think something not enough because you could call up people like, oh, listen to your podcast eight years ago and you're talking about muscle fiber types, but I tuned in today and you're discussing dick-shocking. I'm no longer going to listen to your show. It's gotten really weird.

go and listen to your show, it's gotten really weird. And so yeah, I mean, it's something that I think more people should realize is like, you know, with podcasting every time you record one, it's out there forever. And there's this thing called Google, and you could Google like, you know, my name or your guy's his name and whatever topic that you want to know about and see if someone's actually covered it. How many total episodes have you recorded? Has you been on air for like nine years? Oh, over a thousand easily.

You've been on for nine years, right? If you've been pod 10 years. 10 years, yeah. Which is, that's like ancient in podcast world. You're probably one of the first ones. How did people access it back then? Just website? No, the covered wagon.

Okay. One of those little styrofoam cups with the wire coming out the side of it. Uh, no, it was like I had to like write the RSS feed and submit that to iTunes. And it was, it was a pain and a break all the time. And it was, it was like, it was not a smooth process. What were you doing for work at that time? I was a personal trainer. Okay, so you're a personal. In a gym, privately, what were you doing? Oh, well time? That was a personal trainer. Okay, so you were a person in a gym privately,

what were you doing? Well, I owned all my own gyms for seven years. That's all I did out of college was I ran gyms in personal training studios and the way that I ran them was I bought the nicest equipment. So I had indirect calorie-imetry equipment, high-speed video cameras, platelet-rich plasma machines,

like I was the complete geek of fitness and I partnered up with local physicians. They would send me their patients because they knew that I was the guy to send people to when they wanted good treatment that nobody else was able to get, and they wanted results that these people weren't getting from other personal trainers. And I did that, like that was my shock, right? How the hell did you afford that at a college? I bought it. I understood the value of investing.

And when I came out of college, I didn't have a lot of debt because I worked five jobs in college. So I had a lot of money saved up. And I remember, I paid Med Graphics $14,000 when I first started a gym just to buy the indirect calorie equipment. And then I set up all the high speed video cameras. So I had all this stuff, but what I did was I partnered with Doc.

So you just stuff, you get to tell me what's going through your head at that age to have the foresight to see, to even invest in something like that. Well, you're 18, 19 years old. I wanted to be the best of the best. At that moment. So you never went out, you never went out

and you never went out and partied or did that stuff in college? You just said, Oh yeah, I totally did. But all through college, I was a personal trainer. I had a lot of jobs. I was very, very driven, you know, because I was also homeschooled,

so I didn't know it was normal, right? So I did party, but I also studied my ass off took a ton of credits, worked a lot, and held down a job as a personal trainer all through college as well. So when I graduated college and started working at a gym, and then eventually branched off after about a year and started all my own gyms and studios, I had a different mindset. I had money, I wanted to invest it in what I was doing,

and I really had this, you know, I did a podcast with Neil Strauss on my show about how the way I grew up was like the greenfields had to be like the best of the best. Like that was like the way that I was raised was we had to get like the best test scores and we had to, you know, like, like, everything, like spelling had to be perfect and reading had to be perfect. It just, just everything was pretty good. Now how are you measuring that as a home school or? Is it, do you, when you're biking? Well, some of it's standardized. Cause you're kicking your little sisters out

and then who you really be, and you're really being up on it. And part of it is literally just like mom with a red pen. I mean, like, like that's part of it as well. Like my parents expect you a lot out of us. And so. Now it worked on you, did it work on your siblings too? Did they also? Not so much.

No, I think part of it for me was just my personality type. Yeah. Because I could see that method being very effective for some people. Right. And but also be very ineffective for a lot of people. Yeah, it didn't work that well. And I said, like my sister worked pretty well on, but then I've got another sister and two brothers that I don't think that approach.

Wow. So you leave college, you've got money saved up because you work five jobs, you buy all this equipment and you start these gyms where doctors refer you patients. So you're doing a lot of rehab. I'm rarely working with patients and I was working with athletes, right? Cause I was racing as an Iron Man triathlete at the time.

So everyone in the triathlon community knew me and triathletes, frankly, have a high disposable income. Like the average income of a triathlete, it's like $171,000 or something like that. It's an expensive sport. It's crazy. Yeah, Spandex is expensive. I didn't know that. Well, yeah, their bikes are super expensive.

I knew I knew I had a lot of experience. But I didn't know that was, it was that much of a... It's high. Yeah, well, it's... The divorce race really high, too. Anyways, though, so it was primarily triathletes and other professional endurance athletes for the most part, like, you know, 40 to 60-year-old demographic, disposable income, loves to exercise, wants the best to the best, and then also all the patients that physicians are referring to me.

And a couple of physicians in the community nominated me for the NSCA, as America's top personal trainer, like their National Personal Trainer of the Year award, when I won that, that's when I started doing more speaking, more traveling, more writing, more freelancing. And I gradually got out of the gym scene and started doing more what I do now, which is, you know, basically.

Were you nervous on your first public big speech? There, no. Like I was in theater all through homeschooling, all through high school. I competed on the college speech and debate team. So I was on stage all the time for that. So it wasn't a big deal at all. No, it was, it was, and you guys know personal training, you're hanging out with people talking all the time.

Right. Right. So then anything that you see from the homeschool that you've already said like working with others, anything else that you have a fear of that's a challenge that you are always having to work with. Yeah, what do you suck at? I know, we just talk about everything. You fucking good at it.

What does homeschooling make you suck at? No, no, no, what do you suck at? Well, yeah, you personally. He's all nothing, he's eye suck at sucking. Yeah. Honestly, a big part of it still is that, like doing a really good job making friends, right? Not being a complete lone wolf.

Do you have a best friend? Not really. No. No, besides me. So, I'm very introvert, I have a ton of acquaintances. I don't have a best friend that I just call up on the phone, bro, and chat with. I know this sounds lame, but my best friend right I just call up on the phone bro and chat with. Like, probably, I know that sounds lame,

but like my best friend right now is my wife. Oh, that's not lame. That's cool. But it should be that. Yeah, but well, but you should have a second best friend. Yeah, exactly. So like things like that, you know, and part of that too is I just spend so much time

traveling and speaking and, you know, being with a whole bunch of acquaintances, but never being settled down enough at home to have that best friend on the home friend who I hang out with. Yeah, so because of that, do you catch yourself in conversations or potential relationship moments that you get nervous or feel different or you don't act completely yourself?

Do you feel that ever? Oh yeah, and usually it's one-on-one situations with with other usually like other guys peers like people like just because growing up That was one of the situations I wasn't in a lot give me a stupid thing you've done then I know you've done today You've embarrassed yourself and you like fuck Ben. Why would I say some stupid like that? No, no no no Don't shit me. No, no really. mean, we stroked you off for a half hour on here, so much is just awkwardness. Like really having a hard time

having like one-on-one, heart-heart conversations. Like I don't do well, like even when I'm like at masterminds and stuff like that where they send you off one-on-one to you know, pour your heart and your feelings with all the guys, that kind of, like I just, yeah, that's something I've never really been that great at. So that's, I think, and I think part of that is, is homeschooling. Part of it is I'm an extreme introvert as well.

Right. So I recharge by being by myself. I'm very good at like, you know, there's a book called Power of Introverts by Susan Cain. And it's a really good book, but it goes into how introverts are really good at like one to many, like, like being on stage, speaking to you things like that, but like one-on-one or in very small groups at like cocktail parties, stuff like that,

they're not so great at. And I think that combined with that- It's that engagement back in- That combined with that back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in-

It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- It's that engagement back in- type, I think kind of makes me suck at making friends, like close friends one on one. Did that make interviewing at all challenging thing? Because that's kind of like that, right? Like when you first started, was that, did you notice that was a major hurdle where you

would have to have this dialogue back and forth? Or you very formulae when you first started, like you had these questions you were going to ask, like, what was that? Do you mean me interviewing people or... Yeah, you interviewing people. Oh, you mean for podcasts. Yeah. Yeah, you interviewing people. Oh, is that you mean for podcasts? Yeah. No, that was never that hard for me

to just sit back and ask questions. Because a lot of my podcasts are based on books, right? I read voraciously. I read three to five books a week, and I'm constantly underlining and highlighting, and then contacting those people and getting on the show. So for me, it's super easy. I'm literally just like talking to that author,

I'm not even know what they look like, right? Sometimes at the Skype conversation, it's just like this imaginary conversation almost with the person who I have a bunch of underlines and highlights in front of me for. You know, at the same time though, like one-on-one face-to-face interviews, those can sometimes be a little awkward for me.

I mean, it's still something I'm working on. That's what I was wondering. I actually peed my pants twice so far, just sitting there and talking to you guys. Yeah, I think you're just in share though. It's just a share of stuff. I heard it was the totally, totally normal. So do you notice, because I know that you have the,

the brotherhood, which is a bunch of entrepreneurs, businessmen that, you know, I was supposed to talk about that. Oh, is it, oh, it's a group that we're not supposed to. Secret. We'll call it the secret group. Oh, yes, thanks. Is it the secret?

Mark that down for edit, no? Yeah, secret group. Is there, do you feel like that's helped or do you feel like those guys, you've gotten closer and tied to? Yeah. Because you've been doing that for a while now, right? Totally. How long?

Five years. Okay, so five years. Yeah, and that's true. Like being part of like a mastermind, a group of like-minded guys. Right. That helps a lot. But I guess like for me, when you say friend, like sometimes I think of like being at home,

inspocan Washington, who's that guy I'm gonna call up to like play for his B or go paddle boarding with, or just like come hang out. And that's like the thing that I haven't really built still. Yeah. It's hard to, when we're all grown-ass men, and we're in our lives now. So I have two childhood best friends,

Justin and Jared, that we go all the way back to elementary school. And to me, Justin from MindPup. No, no, it's different Justin. And then I have just a ton of acquaintances and then some good friends. And there's definitely a difference between all three of them. There's a ton of like acquaintances and then some good friends. And there's definitely a difference between all three of them. There's a difference between my acquaintances,

there's a difference between my good friends like that I've made as an adult. And then there's a difference between like my childhood friends. And my childhood friends, the neatest thing about those friends or making those types of relationships is literally we can sit in a room and actually not speak to each other. And it'd be comfortable and normal.

Where then if I'm with like good friends, we kind of need to be doing something, but we're easy going and at whatever you wanna do, I'm down to do and we have good conversation with laugh, we joke, and then you have your acquaintances, which I know all of us have quite a few, that when we're in the business that we are, we meet people all the time,

and lots of times are like minded people that we like hanging out with. So there's definitely different levels to- There are, but I'll tell you what, I mean, those childhood friends that you develop, they get very close, they know you for a very long time, they know things you've done and ways you've thought, which is great, but there's also a downside to that. Of course. As you grow as an individual, sometimes it's very difficult to be who you are now with someone who's known you when you were something else

or when you were a certain way because everybody, like I said, everybody grows and changes. And so it can also make it very difficult, which is why I think you'll find yourself having different friends along the way. There's definitely people that have grown up with that. If I'm going to cry, those are the people that are going to see me cry. At the same time, I'm a growth-minded individual, and I change all the time, and I'm always

talking about something different. I'm always obsessed or passionate about a new subject, and sometimes it's very difficult to do that with some of those old friends because they're like, oh, you know, you know, there you go again or whatever. Well, that's like those are so and you do you can as an adult and it took me a long time to figure this out and I felt like that kind of slowed me up a bit because at one point, you know, I Kind of went a different direction, but so we're all still very close and like family and see each other when we you know Have a great time when we when we do but there are different are different you know types of friends and levels and they're all important I think healthy. But it is tough as a grown man at our age to you know me and other man and get like become best friends. It's like you're most of them have married kids wife they're they're not

even making enough time for their wives and kids and they got work, you know, 60, 70 hours a week and it's like, I mean, I don't know what the statistic was that I read, but it was something along the lines of even in an era of Facebook and social media and extreme connectiveness. Loneliness is one of the major leading causes of depression, even in our hyper connected era. And it's possibly, you know, because of depression, even in our hyper-connected era. And it's possibly because of that, we all live very fast moving lives, we're all extremely connected virtually, but how often are we just like, I don't know, yeah.

I wonder what it's because I'm sitting on a fishing boat, next to some guy, and I don't know, is that help friends work? Well, we still have fishing boats. I don't know, he's new at this., we sell fishing boats. He's new at this. He's new at this. He's doing things. You're gonna go fish on my fishing boat?

Let's go through a frisbee. So my theory on that is we're hyper connected. We can share ideas and information better than ever. But the way you really form bonds has to do with sharing emotion and experience. And you'll find this with like, men who go to war with other men, for example, the bond that they create with each other is, I mean, it's like nothing else. Or if you've been on a sports team and you guys played very hard and you've won hard battles together and you've lost together, that'll form incredible, you know, incredible bonds.

Or just traumatic experiences or amazing experiences. Those are the things that create those bonds and because we're so fast paced and, you know, we don't necessarily sit there and experience things as much, that could be probably what I would say with, you know, that's causing it. But I think we should probably all go to prison or join sports teams more. That's all. That's all killed someone to go. But I think, you know, I think in turn, and it's harder for men, right? Because society makes it easier for women to show and connect through emotion, and it makes it very difficult for men. Like it's hard to sit here and talk to another guy you just met,

and you even know you guys are cool and you're kind of like oh, we can be great fans You're not gonna share like super emotional deep things with them because we're brought up to believe that that's just not You know, you just don't do that as a guy. So because we're different balls For exactly I mean we do have a we do have a studio audience of females. We're doing right now. Yeah, yeah I think they're all not listening. They're all in their phones. Yeah, they're like candy crush. Exactly. What about your wife, then? Is she, is she have a lot of friends? She actually does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she does, but she's, you know, again, we're like we're getting young, like she's extremely extroverted. And you know, like when I go home, I'm content to sit at home in my underwear and do absolutely nothing but hang it with my kids.

And like, you know, work a little bit and chill, you know, do some workouts, play the guitar and, you know, shit, but she wants to go out. Does that make you a shitty double-dader? A little bit. A little bit. Yeah. Um, but yeah, she's got a lot of friends. Yeah.

When was the last time you were on a double date? I don't know. I honestly don't even know. Dude, you are. Yeah, bring around next time. We'll go out together. Yeah, off to bring her down. Yeah, for sure.

Absolutely. Do you find, because I think you're a phenomenal father. I've seen that. Actually, we were on triple date the other night. Did you? We were at a, like a health event in Carmel, like sometimes I'll fly her into different events. Oh, there you go.

It was a triple day. It was me. Other podcasters, Chris Kelly and his wife, they were in the Norish Balance Thrive podcast, and then Dave Asprin and his wife. So it was a triple date. Oh, no shit. Very, very geeky table.

I didn't know you hung out with Dave before. I knew you knew him. I didn't know you guys actually hung out like that. Is that the first time where you hung out with him before? No knew you knew him. I didn't know you guys actually hung out like that. Is that the first time were you hung out with him before? No, we get around it a lot of the same events. So I don't know shit. Yeah. Yeah, he had like the biggest booth. I have blue light. I have blue light blocking glass jealousy though. What? These are always cooler than mine. Is he wearing them all the time? No, they're just

cooler. They're always more. More cut. You're not supposed to wear them during the day, by the way. Ben taught me that. Yeah. I remember when we brought it up, the Paleo FX. It was pretty funny. People walking around like ski goggles, size blue light blocking glasses. At Mill over the new, at granite the lights were bright. And those those type of lights are not good for you, right? I mean, those floor, those old,

for less fluorescent lights, right? That's the word on actually, they do cause a lot of glare. They flicker and our eyes, you know, it's, you know, like I mentioned at dinner, like the human body has not evolved to a certain extent to deal with a lot of modern assailants, you know, such as like, you know, modern lighting, for example. So, yeah. Ben, what, what are you finding like super cool right now? Like what are you learning about at this moment? What am I learning about?

That's an interesting question. Probably one thing I've been, when you asked that question, the first thing that comes to mind is what books have I been reading. And the two that I've just finished, the two that I read flying over from Bulgaria, because I didn't realize they confiscate your laptop when you fly to Turkey. There's like 12 countries you can't fly into the US and have your laptop on the plane because

apparently you can hide a bomb inside a laptop. So they take the laptop, so usually I'll write on a plane. But what I did on this last plane ride a couple of days goes I just read instead the two books were One on the Russian practice of Systema which is a form of a breath work. Yeah, and martial arts really fascinating very simple But you know just a series of like sit-ups levers push-ups squats, while doing certain breathing patterns such as in through the nose, like for two pushups, for the first pushup, you just go in through your nose,

hold for a count out through the mouth, and then the next pushup, you do that again, like on one breath, and then you proceed up to being able to do seven on one breath, and then backed up in the ladder from seven down to one, then you repeat with like a specific version of a squat, like a wall facing squat, and then a lever, and then there's a bunch of like tumbling movements.

It's really interesting. I want to actually find a gym up in Spokane that does this. Now what do you find interesting about it, just because it's a different, or is it because it's, I like breath with activity. I like breath work and body weight training. I love the idea. So talk to the Wim Hof fire breathing,

where you'll breath up, you'll retain a bunch of CO2, or you'll blow off a bunch of CO2, and then you'll do like a set of 30 pushups with your breath held. Like I, and honestly, my infatuation with it is, I just love the way that the body feels. I like some of the evidence that you get in terms of, you know, blood flow. I had a feel case, like you know,

I feel, you get a rush, you get like this nitric oxide rush. It's like a, it's like a head rush. And it's like a rush. you get a rush. You get like this nitric oxide rush. It's like a head rush. And it's a rush. So walk me through that real quick. I wanna try that. So what do you do? It's like the Wim Hof style breathing would be, for example,

you would breathe really fast, sharp, deep inhales and then short, shallow exhales through the nose for like 60 seconds. So it'd be like, breathe in from the belly and yoga would be called like fire breathing exhales through the nose for like 60 seconds. So it'd be like breathing from the belly and in yoga it'd be called like fire breathing or yoga breathing. Then at the very end you exhale all your air and when you've done that you've blown off a lot of CO2 and then you breathe everything in you hold for a deep breath and then you just crank out as many bodyweight exercises as you can or you get into a cold shower, you know, jump into cold water

because you get this nitric oxide release as you blow off all that CO2. So it's just hyper-oxygenating you? Is that what it's doing? Yep, exactly. Very interesting, yeah. It's also, I mean, you know, CO2 for example. It's also dangerous.

Yeah, CO2 is like your body's signal to breathe, right? And some people will do this, and they'll go like do hypoxic underwater swimming and get shallow water blackout because they don't have carbon dioxide. The body's signal to breathe in high enough amounts to remind them to breathe when they're underwater. But you can hold your breath longer,

right, like a lot of free divers will do this as a breath hold tactic, but you also increase your chances of dying. So it's, you know, it's risky to do in certain circumstances. Like you don't do the pushups underwater then. I don't do my pushups underwater. I don't do my pushups underwater. So, systemic breathing was one, or systemic, and that book was called Let Every Breath.

And I've just been doing that in my hotel room and just a little bit of body weight training. The past couple of days experimenting with it, a little bit of the back of the airplane. And then the other one was a book about basically how the body is a battery. There's a really good book called The Body Electric by Robert Becker about the electrochemical potential across the cell membranes and how different things can affect that, everything from exposure to negative ions from the water, from forest or exposure at household appliances, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, stuff like that.

But this book is called, it was something like healing is voltage. I think is the name of it. And all, it's like 600 pages that goes into how different frequencies affect the human body. It's really interesting. Wow, so that's pretty fascinating. You're going to interview some of these authors. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Like, that's my am all.'re probably gonna interview some of these authors. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, that's my am-o. Like, honestly, you guys know this. That's a cool part about being a podcaster. If that's the way that you wanna go, like more of an educational podcast, is you read just extremely fucking cool books.

And then you contact these folks in your interview. I mean, do you turn your Wi-Fi off at home at night? I don't have Wi-Fi. You don't, oh, that's right. It's a hard wire. Everything's hardwired. Yeah, see we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, it always be like, you can't access the internet

without plugging your computer in with a metal-shilded, like physical ethernet cable. Yeah, see, when we interviewed Mercola, he'd like scared the shit of us talking about this. Oh, yeah, that, that, that can't like, when you call him on his phone, he answers with his selfie stick. Make sure the phone's far enough away from his body.

Because legit, and the, and the, and the, and he actually is, like, I sound like I'm making fun of him, answers with his selfie stick. Make sure the phone's far enough away from his body. Because legit, and- And he actually is, like, I sound like I'm making fun of him, but he's extremely smart. He talks to like nuclear physicists and stuff about this shit, and like, he has like all sorts of different instruments that he uses to test his electronic equipment. And he wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't a biological impact of that stuff on the human body. It's just, most of us are too afraid of how silly it looks to be talking on our phone using

a selfie stick, whereas he doesn't give a shit just because he's, he's, he's, he's, he's that number. Yeah, he's, he's like a fucking more cool. Yeah, the number one fitness visited website for like like 15 million visits a day on my website. Yeah, exactly. Cause I'm the fucking man. He has to be one of your favorite guys to have talked to him. He was such a tree

talk some every week. Yeah, we talk every week. Oh, do you really? Oh, no shit. Oh, yeah, so I've you know, he definitely him and who else were we talking about? I could see you really hit. Oh, in Paul check. Yeah, those two guys I feel like a checkleblader mind those two guys who really, really enjoy different to the two of them. They're not they're not anything like each other, but they're both brilliant minds. I bet Paul checked deadlifts more than Dr. McCrollo. Yeah, I think so too. I think Paul checked might even deadlift more than me.

But Dr. McCrollo's got a longer selfie stick. God, we're living in like a ticking time bomb with all this Wi-Fi and, you know, internet and stuff. Well, kids, you know, with cell phones up to their face. There's always a concept of for me, so you can keep your fingers crossed. Yeah, so we make it okay. Just radiate yourselves into a longer life.

Excellent. Yeah, it is tricky. I mean, I'm pretty careful with it. Well, my friend, it's been a pleasure again. It's always a pleasure. We always have fun with your brother. And by the way, we are friends now. Yeah.

You are one of my best friends now. Yeah. I just brought you, you're in my fab five on my phone now. Can go fishing. Yeah. We'll get to boat. Well, he's sleeping, he's sleeping over tonight. Next time you come over, we'll go get to boat. We're having a sleeping, sleepover. And tomorrow morning, we're going to work out together. Who's the big spoon tonight? Me, duh, duh. I'm actually sleeping in Sal's meditation room. Yes, there's good mojo in there. Good fung shui going on. Very good mojo.

It's my meditation slash expert. They were concerned I'd need a bed, but I told them I hunt. Pretty cool with that. Yeah, I have a meditation mat in there. And I'm like, oh, you normally have a bed and he's like, is that like, I sleep on rocks? Is that like a yoga mat?

No. Is it like a little more beef? It's like a Japanese floor bed. You ever seen them? you can roll them out I slept on that thing for like four months. What are they called Doug? It's a futon I'm not a futon. It's a who-ton Sorry, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go basically pass out and slobber on sales meditation futon all night and we'll work out tomorrow morning

Work out basically my friend. All right, listen 30 days of coaching for free mind pump media. Oh wait a second Well, you gotta we're gonna do a podcast would be right now on a day like this We have to plug his bars right now dude his bars. Yes, dude. Are your bars gonna be available? It's just released his bars good they're available as of as of today right so tell people where they add to tell them everything right now. Tell them their affiliate code. Tell them what's up. You don't even have a good. I know. Yeah, we could probably get you guys some kind of a discount if I get it set up before this podcast comes out. It will have a couple of days. We could say and remind me about this dog. We'll set up. I would say about a 15% discount would be appropriate.

Exclusive for my impact. It would be exclusive. I want 1% higher than anybody else has. It could be mind-pombed. We're best friends now. You don't even have a best friend until five minutes ago, you didn't have a best friend. You have a best friend now.

As your first best friend, Call, I'm calling on you. I want one percent best friend. One percent fuck up. Let me just talk. So the code is... You see, you do calling on you. I want one percent. Best friends, one percent. One percent. Let me finish talking. So the code is, see, you're not, you do this is not how we work this relationship.

Mind. Mind pump. Here's the deal. I spent like two years taste testing and designing this thing and also testing it. Like I took it to like 38 degrees below zero, racing back in Vermont. I put it in my saw enough for five hours.

I took it on bike rides in Hawaii. It is coconut flakes, cacao nibs, coconut oil, a little bit of organic honey, white chia seeds, Spanish almonds, sea salt, cacao butter. It's about 50 to 60% fat, 25, 30% protein, about 20-ish percent carbohydrates, kind of like a low work, not like a greasy ketogenic bar, but like a low carb.

Very fat, paleo-esque. No, not paleo-esque. I looked at a lot of like the paleo, even like the glazed adona paleo bars. Because all your video on that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it doesn't have a deeper but hole on it. Yeah, it doesn't have any of like the like the egg white protein and all the excess, I think a lot of ours have excess protein. This one's got a little bit of collagen in it.

It's got the equivalent about a couple of bones, broth worth of collagen in it. And super clean. And yeah, and it tastes amazing. It has, I learned a new word, designing it. The organoleptic profile is really good. Meaning it's like, it tastes really hedonistic, but it's actually really good.

Oh, so it hits all, what you did is you designed it to hit all of the hedonistic single bar and half. That would be guilt free, but also extremely addictive, because I hear that's a good business move. Excellent. So what's the code again? Mind pump? Let's go mind pump.

We'll get that set up to get people a 15% discount. The box is coming a box of 12 bars. And where do they buy it on your site? For $268. And what you're saying? Yeah, you can get it. You know what should work is Ben Greenfield fitness.com slash nature bite should get people there or just look up Ben Greenfield nature bite and you should able to find it and if you can't then I'm gonna go fire some people excellent thank you Ben yeah love your brother thank you for listening to mine pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com.

The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal and Iman Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having sour, animal-added Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes

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