Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 548 1/2: Mind Pump's Response to Joe Rogan Episode #984 with Yvette d'Entremont [Bonus Episode]

Episode Date: July 11, 2017

On July 6th, Joe Rogan posted his episode with Yvette d'Entremont who talks about chiropractic, nutrition, vaccinations and more. Much of what she spoke about runs counter to the message put out by Mind Pump. In this bonus episode Sal, Adam & Justin bring Dr. Jordan Shallow and Dr. Justin Brink into the studio to discuss Yvette's position on chiropractic and many of the other topics she discussed on The Joe Rogan Experience episode.

Two days left for enrolling in the map Super Bundle and getting one of them for free. That's right, if you enroll in the Super Bundle, which is a year's worth of exercise programming, you'll get one Super Bundle for free. There's only two days left for that promotion. It will end on the 13th of this month. After that, it's done. The place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts.

Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, we get heated. We get heated. We have Joe Rogan. Yeah, Joe Rogan interviewed Yvette Deng Tramont. I hope I'm saying right. That's pretty good right there. And they talked a lot of shit about chiropractors and chiropractic care.

Like called them sham artists and quacks. We had to call the boys. So we called two of our favorite chiropractors, Dr. Jordan Shallow and Dr. Justin Brink, into the studio. And we rallied. Justin Brink, into the studio. We rallied. And we asked them all the questions. We brought up all the points that Rogan brought up in his episode about Chiropractic Care

and about the process and all that stuff. And they went off. This episode is not to be missed. And what I think you guys should do as listeners is tag the hell at a Joe Rogan so we can hear this episode and maybe change his position. And his mind on this topic a little bit. Yeah, because he, I think he hurt a lot of chiropractors business. And let me tell you, there's some good ones out there, some very, very good ones.

Also you can watch the recording of this podcast on our YouTube channel where we're talking to both Dr. Shodock. Got some new toys. It's all shot in 4k over there on the Mind Pump TV YouTube channel. That's it. Go there and watch it and share it. Make sure you tag Joe Rogan too.

This is a special podcast today and this is in response to the Joe Rogan, the latest Joe Rogan episode 984. 94, he interviews Yvette, Dantrum, Dalschremont. He said something about, he had an episode prior that led to that particular. Well, he, 979. He read her article, correct?

I think he read her article and that's, so that's what prompted in the earlier episode. He was totally unrelated. He was speaking with some, I think the guy was like, London. Yeah, yeah, he was in a British guy and they were going on about like feminism and postmodernism and stuff like that.

And then they had, Rogan just made a real hard switch in the middle. The guy made reference to a doctor. And then Rogan was like a real doctor or a chiropractor and they just went totally down this whole road. Rogan was like they kill people, this, that and the other and then he'd made mention to this event, De Tramau, who is gonna say that's how you do it.

Who is gonna, he had mentioned that he was gonna have on the podcast and she wrote this article, chiropractic is bullshit. So he, so basically they go off on this episode with this, her name is Sai Babe, S-C-I-Babe on social media. And did she, I apparently should have did that to counter the whole food bag. Yeah, it's a good word.

Play on the food bag, girl. But she, they really went off on Chiapractors and I listened to the episode and it was a lot of Chiapractors aren't doctors, chiropractors are bullshit, they don't help anything, don't waste your time or money, going to them. And as I'm listening to this, I'm like, wow, this is gonna generate a lot of

and they kill people. And it's in defensive Joe, okay? In defensive Joe, for a very long time, I kind of felt this way, for a very long time. And that was just because for fuck, 15 years of our career running gyms, I had worked with a lot of different chiropractors. And I remember thinking because I know that they referred to them as doctors. And so I assume like, okay, their level of knowledge and understanding of anatomy and

biomechanics, I assumed would be much higher than mine. And I would start asking questions about my body and issues that I was having, and I could just tell by the way I was getting answers from the like, man, this guy or girl didn't really doesn't know that much. I kept running into that one after another, after another, to a point where I kind of felt this way for a really long time. To the point that I remember when I met Brink, Dr. Brink, not he, what, a couple of years ago, and I think the very first words that my mouth to him was,

I hate you. I said, I don't like hydropactors. And I said, you know, this is why I don't like them because I feel like a lot of them are like this. And I went on to explain. And he right away said, I agree with you. And then from that moment on, I was open years, I wanted to hear his thoughts on it,

and then we started discussing this, and then it wasn't much longer after that that I met Dr. Jordan Shallow. So I got a chance to be somebody very, very much so, like Joe Rogan, where I had one or two, well, in my case, I had lots of experiences where I felt like a lot of these, in my case, I had lots of experiences where I felt like a lot of these chiropractors were not that credible.

But then I go and I meet a couple guys who have literally changed the way I lift and exercise as a 35 year old fitness professional who's been doing this for years. So, and then I heard the episode with Joe Rogan and I thought, man, what's so crazy is that's not like Joe Joe is What I love about his show is he tends to take Both sides really really well and he really went in on on the Cairo pretty pretty horror right here man

So I wanted to make sure we brought the boys down to kind of discuss it a little Well one thing that they said was that Kairpactors are not doctors. And what are they talking about when they say that? Well, so I think they're not doctors. They are not MDs. You know? And there's no difference.

Yeah, no different than a DPT, which is a doctor of physical therapy or a PhD who is a doctor of, you know, whatever their discipline is. We are a doctor of chiropractic. That's what we're a doctor of. Got it. Just because you don't understand the designation, doesn't mean we're any less or any more of anything. It's we have a level of education of the field of study at its highest level,

which is like if you can't draw the difference between an MD, a DC, a DBT, an ACU, or an LAC, an acupuncturist, like you can throw a dead cat on the omelette right here and hit someone with a doctorate degree in something. Everyone in the Silicon Valley is a doctor. But I think to your point, when you expressed that you felt this way about Cairo's for a long time, you kept that a personal thing.

You didn't air that out. Joe Rogan by sheer numbers is the most prolific interviewer of all time period. He takes Diane Sawyer and bends her over his knee. This guy's a billion downloads a year through YouTube and podcast. It's insane. A lot of influence. Yeah, exactly.

And it's like to have that level of responsibility and to take someone with, you know, marginal credibility as a scientist. Let's air quote that. Chemist. Yeah, sure, right? Chemist. We're not doctors, right? That's right.

Yeah. But to give her the same platform as someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Lawrence Krauss, these extremely intelligent guys, and further that, like you said, he sees the other side. You know, flatter, as we talked about, he'll hear the other side of like conspiracy moon landings, but okay So with both of those factors in mind to come on and sort of hard and fast say these guys are bullshit They kill people, you know, this is all the scientists here. I have this random on you know Educated person on the subject to tell us more with their confirmation bias and bullshit little article Well, let's dive into some of the things that she talks about starting off with right away,

the origin. The founder. Well, let's start with the very first one, which is the very, the two and a half minute episode that Rogan and the guy from England are ever thought about how the Cairo killed the lady from LA, you know, and does it happen? Sure it can happen, but again, did the Cairo do his

due diligence? We don't know. Right? So does it happen? Yeah, it's a VBI. It's a vertebrate basal insufficiency. So they go in there, they adjust the neck, something bad happened. No different than you getting in a car every single day and running the risk of you getting in a car accident. You still do it every single day. So them coming in and people ask you when that happened, you know, oh, can you adjust my neck? I can, but I'm not adjusting for the sublixation, right? I'm creating movement in here. Is there a risk? There's always a risk. Well, explain that real quick, Branky. Explain the, what does that mean? What you just said? What is the difference between popping somebody's neck to adjust them versus what you just said?

So if you're going to go back to old school old school, old school is off, we adjust the sublixation, which we can talk about a little bit, then we're getting things to move better. We're trying to get the nerve interference out of your body. It's sort of like the foot off the hose is sort of what they talked about in school. Modern day, I think where I'm coming from, I don't know about Jordan as well,

is I'm not creating more movement. I just want things to move better. If our bodies at 70 and 80 years old don't move, we're gonna be stuck and if we're stuck, crap goes wrong. You know, so if we can move better than everything is going to move better. As to what moves better? Again, that's, I don't know.

I think we should, I mean, I don't know if we now it's like the time to get real deep into the anatomy here of like the adjustment and so the foot on the hoax, right? The nerve compression. I think strokes should have its own point in this. Let's start with the S-word, the sublexation thing. The conventional model is that the nerves, the spinal nerves that leave the IVF, the holes in your bones in your back to really simplify it, and that innervate everything in your

body. With, let's call it malalignment or sort of of an aberrant positioning of a Jason Verdebro, the initial theory was, okay, that affects the nerves. The air go, those nerves are affected to whatever they innervate, whether it be, you know, somatocensory, visceral sensory, visceral motor. So, you know, motor output to the organ, sensory input from the appendages, all of that, all that could be affected.

We know that to now not be the case. But, and this is one thing I wanted to, well, I wanna look through the prism of her critical thinking and flip it back on Western medicine. So what, because we still adjust, even though we know that's not the case. But we can reappropriate that intervention

and its efficacy. So a great example, let's go with, okay, 1928, I'm pretty sure is 1928. Alexander Fleming took a useless or thought to be useless mold, right? That we now know to be penicillin, change the game, first antibiotic. So he had something we thought was useless, when we now designated a use for it, fast forward, late 1980s, still then a Phil citrate. Anyone know what that is? Good. That's for this bone or two.

Oh, fuck, guys. Oh, you're guilty. Poor cell, no. Yeah. So exactly. So they made it for heart. Yeah, British researchers. They made it for blood pressure.

So what do they do? They didn't throw the baby out with a bath water. They said, oh, OK. You give you lemons. Here's lemonade, right? So with the adjustment, we can do the same thing. Maybe if that's not the mechanism of correction, oh, okay, you give you lemons, here's lemonade, right? So, but with the adjustment, we can do the same thing. Maybe if that's not the mechanism of correction, what I mean, and this is sort of a prevailing theory,

is now you need to understand a pretty deep knowledge of anatomy, especially spinal musculature anatomy, because we will go in with back pain. Which I found really crazy from this girl, listening to her talk about her own mechanics and her own dysfunction that she currently has. She seemed lost. And I'm going to say, how is she going to come over and harp on these chiropractors that

have a level of understanding and knowledge of the anatomy way beyond what she has? But I think the big thing that drove me nuts on that end was she sat there and she's throwing us under the bus, but the same time says, I have a great DO. But most chiro's don't shoot X-rays. Okay, I don't need to. I don't have an X-ray machine in my office, but I guarantee I know when a fracture is a fracture. And if she goes in to get adjusted by her DO,

because he's better at adjusting than we are, and he adjusted a fractured rib, idiot. Yeah, really. It's like you didn't do your homework and did you, but you had to go to your DO because he did you a service. And oh, shit, we found out that you had a fractured rib. Walton's done, really. Yeah.

I mean, if you go back to the sub-lexation model, if you look at the innermost musketeer back, your deepest layer of muscles that are innervated by a part of your spinal cord called like the dorsal root. So we basically have a ventral comes out the front, that's motor control, that's voluntary. The dorsal root for the most part is sensory control,

that sensory input. If your motor output goes ventral, we do our thing, we feel what we're doing back through that dorsal column. But in that dorsal root lies the motor innovation to the muscles of our back. So, I mean, I would like her to name one erector spine eye muscle. She's a chemist.

Exactly. And apparently a shitty one of that, as she runs a stupid blog. She's keyboard warrior, right? One name, one transversal, spinalis muscle that's integrated by the store's horn. So we're what we're doing, and this is the prevailing theory

that I've been working with, is when we rapidly change the articulation between the two vertebra, we're actually bringing those small muscles to an end range that otherwise couldn't be done internally, right? Like you need to sort of like really, if you crack your own back, you need to like really relax and rapidly sort of shift. But with that, that's an active.

You're using major muscles to pull those vertebra away from each other, which could then cause over rotation, over lateral flexion, whatever. But just like when we stretch a bicep, we change the relative position of origin insertion. When you adjust, that's what you're doing. So your, those muscles are those muscles are not that much different than any other muscle as they have muscle spindles.

They have GTOs, Goldie tendon organ. So when you're changing that relative position, then you're getting that muscle to relax. Because it's in spasm because it's an internal mechanism of protecting the spinal cord. It reads one vertebra's position relative to another, and if we get too flex, laterally flex and rotate it away, oh shit, that's how we herniated disc, that's how our spine, that's how we're gonna get paralyzed or some sort of, uh,

parastesia or some sort of numbness, tingle, or weakness, that's when the muscle spasms up. I see. That's what I really, what I really hate that, uh, people, proponents, super strike her, proponents of, you know, Western medicine or the accepted Western medicine model is that they forget that Western medicine, when they, when they start to come up with their critiques, those are the same critiques I can have for Western medicine. For example, they talk about subluxations and, you know, we don't, there's no proof that this is happening. And you're talking about how that was the old model, how the new model is kind of changing. Western medicine, go get an antidepressant.

We don't know how they really work. We don't know how many of the medications that we take really work. Lithium, go take lithium, how does that work? They have no idea yet, they still prescribe it. So I think with chiropractic and with other methods, it's stretching. We know that stretching improves range of motion. The way we explained it before was wrong. We've changed the muscle.

We had to change the way we explained it because now we understand the way it actually works to a deeper level. That doesn't mean that stretching didn't work before and now it works. It's just the explanation has changed a little bit. And this is true for Western medicine up, down, and left from right. So when they use that same, you know, they use a litmus test for other methods that they

don't apply to themselves, that's what really pisses me off. But you can also go back to what you're just saying is, let's go or what she said is massage therapist are all science-based. So, okay, really. When I heard that massage therapist have you been to, that's very science-based, you know? I know one, she works in my office, I do know that, you know? But at the same time, it's like, all right, what do a lot of massage therapists sit there

and tell you after massage? Go drink a lot of water because you have a lot of toxins in your body. The hell did you just release? That's the case your body is so poisonous right now. You're in trouble. Go to the doctor, right? Come on, seriously.

Yeah, I mean, you know, again, like we use massage and as an example, or foam rolling, like the way we explain those things, we explain like, you have your muscle is tight, there's an adhesion, a part of it that's, you know, we need to press on to release this adhesion and now you've got, but now we know that, that may not be the case,

but what's happening a lot of times when you push on something is you release paink but now we know that in part, that may not be the case, but what's happening a lot of times when you push on something is you release painkillers directly to that area. That may be happening with certain types of adjustments. I look, here's the other thing, as they said, the anecdote is not evidence, which is true. And science, anecdote is not evidence. However, thankfully, because of the internet,

we can look at a lot of anecdote, and it directs us in directions that, you know, Western medicine has yet to have explanations for. And in some of these cases, like she talks about how leaky gut syndrome was not a real thing or how certain food intolerances are not a real thing. I'll bet, I'll bet my house that in the next 10 to 15 years, we're going to have evidence and maybe the way they're explaining it now may be wrong, but there's evidence that there's something there because we have millions and millions of people who have similar types of symptoms.

And this is true for, I'll tell you what, I have my own personal experience. I was lifting weights, I think I was doing a dumbbell pullover. I felt a loud pop in my back. Severe pain, this was in my thoracic area of my spine, near the right a little bit. And people listening right now can relate. Everybody has felt a pop and they're back at some point

with severe pain. Barely could breathe, barely could move, went to a chiropractor friend of mine. He adjusted me immediately after that adjustment, about 85% to 90% of that pain was gone, and it didn't come back, and I got much better the next day. Had he not done that adjustment,

that pain would have taken much longer to get there. And I felt it immediately after his adjustment. So you know, you can't tell me that there's not something going on there. Yeah, I mean, her fat wall seems to be against manual medicine as a whole. If you look at sort of her lineage of articles and stuff, she seems to be a skeptic and a cynic of manual medicine. It's like you cannot fix a mechanical problem with a chemical solution. And then to Rogan's point about like us killing people,

Johns Hopkins released a study, it was, I think it was 2015. I at your genic related deaths, so you go into the hospital with something, they f up, they do something. Oh, locked on that. It was the third leading cause of death in the United States. That's crazy. Let's go back with the history.

Characters don't kill nearly as many people. That's the case with my malpractice, be through the roof. That's another book Let's go back with the history. Characters don't kill nearly as many people. That's the case. My malpractice will be through the roof. That's another book. Because he talked about insurance on the show. It's like, there's no way that they would accept it. No, I mean, put our malpractice insurance against like an OB. My dad's a dentist and his is 10 times higher than mine.

He's a dentist. Yeah, that's crazy. But let's go back with like the history thing. How, I mean, we have a very, we're in our infancy, right? And we're attempting to evolve just as medicine has and topocraties, right? And but like flipping that prism of critical thinking and using her logic and exploring

where medicine has gone wrong along the way, right? George Washington, your first president, you know how he died. Your first president. Sorry, I can't, sorry. I got to keep it. I got to keep the 49 bit. So he woke up on December 2nd, 1799 with a sore throat. That afternoon, he bled the death by his physicians. Hypovelemia, that's how he died. When you guys

have a sore throat, do you think twice about going to your M.D.? No, don't worry about it. All right, break out the leeches and scalples. We're gonna gut this fucker, you know what I mean? So it's like, and I mean, move forward, and that's a long time ago. The irony of that story now is that they're using leeches now in actual medicine because of their anti-coagulative effects. They're actually studying leeches. We've come full circle.

Yeah, take that. I know a president that could use a few. But the fast forward, I mean, that was before the inception of chiropractic. So you say, well, we've come a long way from there, too. Sure. Late 1950s, West Germany, Thalidomide, was the anti-eminentic of the day. We've cured morning sickness. It's the latest and greatest medicine. Kids born without arms.

Yeah, right? Straight up. 2000 kids dead. 10,000 flipper kids in West Germany. Yeah. Okay. And then one of her arguments she made was that's, she said that's not how science works. Science works based on the newest evidence. Newest evidence of the day was that Thalidomide is the shit, you guys aren't gonna throw up. Nine months later, outcomes, kids with like three fingers

and like a nose in the center of their forehead. So by that logic, it's flawed on the face of it, right? Sigmund Freud, known co-cat, father of modern psychology. You're gonna go to your shrink and be worried that he's gonna give you blow, or maybe go to your shrink for, but I don't know, I don't know how you work, but it's like, her logic when flipped on its head.

And this is because they were using, and we gotta let our audience know who may not have listened to episode, they are talking about the founder of Chiropractic care. Yeah, Palmer. What's his first name? D.D.Polmer. D.D.Polmer.

I love for you guys to go back into the history of him. He was a magnetic healer and he used say, say, ounces to speak to spirits. He had a lot of weird shit about him, but we're talking about what, 18, it's like 18, 95, 97, somewhere. Yeah, and you know, he founded these schools. Are the schools anywhere near the same in terms of what they're teaching to what has evolved at all?

Yeah, exactly. I think it's evolved a hundred times, for sure. It has to, other than that, then, you know, you're insurance companies, you're basic, you know, we'd be thrown out with the psychics and all that type. And there are those that still do that stuff. Go over the hill, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And there's nothing wrong with it on that end.

The problem is, is I think, you know, within our profession, there's really not the identity, you know, that like the medical profession that has now, you know, created. Now, why is that? Because people want to be holistic and people want to be sort of the meta-practors. And there's a huge difference between sort of both of those.

But the philosophy is still the same. We want to try and heal without doing a lot of the medication. And the and there's a huge difference between sort of both of those, but the philosophy is still the same. We want to try and heal without doing a lot of the medication and the body knows what to do. We just have to put it in the right position in order to do it. And that's the thing too, like what he just said that we're all going after the same thing. So whether it be, you know, acupuncture or massage or chiropractic or doctor, let us handle this. What art?

What was she? But like an art school bachelor of science chemist failed career as a forensic scientist and now turned keyboard warrior. Let the adults handle this please. You know what I mean? Like, let the people who are actually trying to have an positive effect on the day today and whether it be anecdotally or be research-based

or an amalgamation therein, regardless of the field that you practice. There is an art to medicine, because you're dealing with people and people are in an exact science. So we're not P3 dishes in your chemistry lab, right? These are people with jobs and kids and mortgages and things you need to consider.

Well, there's in that interval episode because they talk about chiropractors for like the first part, and then they start talking about other things. And some of the other stuff that she was talking about was They got into GMOs for example, and they talk about how we've been modifying food forever, which is true We have been modifying food forever, but we have not been taking a gene from a bacteria and inserting it into a vegetable or taking a fish gene and putting it like that didn't exist before So that's completely new and the glyphosate that we breed the,

or that we design these things to take is completely new. So I think a lot of our arguments is she's so general and making these false connections to try and back herself up. Now, to her defense and to even Joe's defense, I have seen a lot of chiropractors that say some, that makes them dubious claims. I agree. 100% ridiculous. 100%. What's up with those guys? I have a, I had a friend who is a chiropractor who told me that if you got adjusted properly, you didn't need vaccines. If you had the flu,

I could adjust you and you would get well. He could correct mental illness with adjustments and his, the way he defended it was that the central nervous system controlled everything. So once you made the central nervous system healthy, then everything would be healthy, which we can make that connection to so many different things. I can say muscles, movie, and I can, you can look at a lot of them,

you look at Wim Hof right now, as to how he's trying to control his A and S through his breathing and, you know, being able to go into the cold and that type of therapy. I mean, you look at, you know, right now with Andrea Ospina, who is a Cairo, right? And how he's creating all this different movement-based approach, but getting your body to move better. So I think it's not an exact science anymore. It's, it's full body. And what does that mean for every individual? When, you know, I could put 10 people in line and they'll have low back issues,

it doesn't mean I'm gonna give the same exact hamstring stretch for every single one of them. Every person is an individual. So as an individual, we have to now try and tailor our treatment to them. So I'm not gonna sit there and tell them, I'm gonna adjust your back and your back pain is gonna go away.

I have no idea. I let their body sort of tell us, as we take them through our proper exams, what they actually need and what they don't need. I think to your point, you asked why a chiropractors deviate maybe further to the left already and a point on the spectrum further to the left of what medicine is. There's a few things I think. I mean, they were indoctrinated in a time where that was more accepted. Sure.

Right? If you grew up in Germany in like the early 1900s, you'd probably be a Nazi. Looking back on that holy shit in German since then, not Nazis, right? But that was the, that was what they were told. That's what they spent money on and someone told them that. And that's where they're at now. So I think you'll see as the turnover rate of the profession progresses and hopefully is allowed to evolve, you know, unfettered by these stupid comments from someone who's not in the profession progresses and hopefully is allowed to evolve, you know, unfettered by these stupid comments from someone who's not in the profession nor has a deep understanding of what we do on a day to day, you'll notice that what I see and especially, I mean, knowing

how you operate in the athletes you work with, the amalgamation, because she put physical therapy above us. The interconnectivity of our scope of practice now is almost negligible. I've had PT's reach out to me and ask, can you teach me to adjust? Not in their scope of practice mind you, and they dress it up as a grade five mobilization. But I know PT's that are great adjusters, but they see value in what we are centered or craft around. So I think to the people who are indoctrinated with that, they'll slowly go the way they're doing. So, and to back you up, I'm meeting more chiropractors, not a ton, but like you guys, like you two, I'm meeting more chiropractors who,

the adjustments are, the manual adjustments, or whatever are a small tool in their toolbox. Now in the past, and not that long ago, I'm going to be honest with you guys, 15 years ago, you went to a chiropractor, that's all they did. They didn't do anything else. Now I'm meeting you guys and I'm hearing other chiropractors and they're corrective exercises. Corrective exercise specialists, even more so than, I mean, I consider myself pretty well versed in corrective exercise, and I don't hold a candle

to some kind of like you two, I see some of the correctual exercise move that you guys, I've learned quite a bit from just from meeting with you guys and talking, you guys about correctional exercise. It seems to me like it's, is it progressing that way, or is it just you guys are way out of the spectrum? I think we are probably more of that, you know, five to 10% on the upper end of us doing that.

But I think what I like about this whole topic right now is, it's bringing light to what our profession is, you know, and in order for us to make change, right, there has to be change to be made, you know, and if we're just at a stalemate, you know, then no, something like this has to rock the boat, you know, and this rock in the boat right now is, yeah, it's getting us to talk about it. But it's bringing out, you know, the other people in the woods, you know, like, yeah, because

there's been a lot of shenanigans, right? For sure. Yeah. And you guys admit that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, what Rogan did was Rogan took, you know, just took an out of place person in a field and basically, tantam out to saying, you know,

all cops kill minorities, cops are stupid, cops kill people. Here's this blonde white lady to tell us more about an article she wrote. Confirmation by a she found on the internet. You could do that. We could sit here right now, pull up our laptops and find case after case after case.

If you saw an officer walking down the street right now, would you say, you'll fuck that guy? That guy's a minority killer. No, because you know that, I mean, I don't know how many times I've had to defend myself. That, listen, there is a spectrum in every profession. If you saw a bad dentist, you'd go to another dentist. If you saw a bad MD, you'd go to another MD.

If you saw a bad barber, fuck, you'd go get your hair cut somewhere else. You wouldn't stop cutting your hair forever and barbers a bullshit, right? But with this hard line against chiropractic, and maybe it's you know as a as an anti-movement of Western medicine because we are able to use Movement as a prescription to better. I mean psychologically we can you know that we were talking last episode about the the benefits of Exercise on depression and things like that that we are now sort of do a catch-all We don't know how we're doing it yet, and we're in the infancy stages

of being able to learn how exercise and corrective movement, but you need people at the forefront, and like brings that really well about assessment. Assessment, the old assessment, you know what used to be here, standing in front of this X-ray. We're gonna see what the super imposition of this black and white photo of you standing still looks like.

That's what MDs do right now. Right, I gotta prescribe, let's do some imaging. They will rarely ever put their hands on you. So how are you gonna put their hands? Yeah, exactly, let me watch you really moving. Let's see, oh, your shoulder hurts. Well, okay, you have a shoulder palm. Let's go do some imaging.

Yeah. You know, for what? Oh, there's nothing on there. Well, I don't know. What a great point. I don't know how many times I have seen like an M.D. and before knee or shoulder pain and it right away It's x-ray then pills or something other versus let's see you move it and then from there

You know, I want to talk so we can actually give people some tangible things to help them with Choosing a chiropractor and knowing what's bullshit? What's not what when I said when we first started this that I Had a bad taste of my mouth for many years for chiropractors because this was my experience I would go and I was always open mind I always you know I'd always be willing to go you know listen and have someone explain to me and Adjust me or whatever and explain their knowledge behind what they're trying to do what I found was this and this is why I think people The people that love chiropractors they they feel, they can feel the difference. If you've ever been adjusted and you've got some sort of aches, pains, something that

you're dealing with and you've been adjusted and you walk out and you're like, fuck, I feel a lot better. Something's happening, something's working. But then what ends up happening, they go about their day, a week goes by, two weeks go by, they feel like shit again. So they come back to their chiropractor, he readjusts them again. And then it becomes this vicious cycle. And I found that a lot of these these chiropractors

And I don't know if it's a lack of knowledge or because they're trying to be smart business-wise Because it's in their best interest to have you keep coming back and getting readjusted every single week and the biggest thing that I Remember with the very first time that I met brink and The first thing he says to me and we're in his office and we're talking and I'm letting him know like all the issues that I have and I'm like, you know, what do you think it is? And he says, okay, well, let's come out here. And we walk past his, his adjustment table and he takes me out into his little grassy field area inside his office.

And he says, take your shoes off. And he goes, let me see you walk. Let me see you. And he wants to watch the way I move. And we never, I've actually never been adjusted by him. So all the times we've hung out, all the times we've visited, we've never, he's never adjusted me. It's always been about movement

and teaching me how to intrinsically get connected to parts of my body that I've lost connection to. And I think that, that right away is, I think, for people, that's when you know a red flag should go up, is if you're Cairo, all he does is adjust you and then see you weak by adjust you see you next week. Supplements. Yeah. Or exactly or prescribe supplements versus talking about the things that you should be doing outside.

Because I think you both would agree that even the eBest adjustment done to you without exercise and putting the work in outside there, you're going to always keep coming back. Am I right? That's their business model. You know, and that's again, you sell a nice to an Eskimo. Right. And that's what you keep going back in over and over again because you do feel better, but yet now the crutch becomes, I have to go in and see my Cairo because I'm out. Where the hell they go?

Exactly. You know, hey, what do you mean you're out? You know, what's, oh, well, I slipped the disc. Where did it slip to? Where did that thing go? You walked in here. Yeah, you're out. You know, what's new? Oh, well, I slipped the disc. Where did it slip to? Where did that thing go? You walked in here. Yeah, you got slipped out. No, no.

Like, you want to know what it is. Let me show you my 20 millimeter disc extrusion. I had it L5S1. That's a disc that now slipped out, you know? But I think the hard part is the indoctrination of the Western medicine model with patients that are in our office. I mean, in the Bay Area, we're lucky because people are more in tune with stuff like that and they'll seek chiropractic care

as a primary form of entrance. But for decades, for hundreds of years, however long it's been going on for, the Western medicine is here, take this intervention, take this home with you, take it once a day. So when I say I prescribe movement, I literally prescribe movement. Because, and I'll explain to people,

like this is tantamount to me, giving you 800 milligrams of ibuprofen. You're not gonna, you'll take it today and you'll feel good and fine, we've done some work, I've put you through some correctives. But, you're not just gonna, shit, you gotta run antibiotics for 12 days, I'm supposed to be some silver bullet, come on.

You gotta meet me halfway here. And like, to your point about the business model, it's a dichotomous business model. The better we are, and the more people we get better quickly and with our assessment can prescribe effective not just exercises but dosages of exercises, reps, sets, accumulated volume over a week. Progressions, this isn't work, let's move to this, this isn't working, let's regress down to that.

How am I supposed to make money? If you're better and usually the more like the better chiropractors are the ones with a little bit more openings in their schedule, because they don't have that reliance. It's the difference between giving a man a fish and teaching a man to fish. Because the biggest thing I would look for, like you said, the adjustment part, is a license or a license is a license to adjust, but more importantly, it's a license to not adjust. Knowing when, that's why we get the doctor title. When you come in, it's something's weird,

like that VBI case, the stroke thing. There are ways to scream with that with history, with like analysis, sensory analysis, spinal nerve, do a full test. There are times where you should not do that. Can we talk about this event's condition too, as I feel like she didn't even know anything about her own fucking condition. Can we support?

What's the core of Ailer's Dan Lois? Ailer's Dan Lois, yeah. Well, it's funny, the irony there is that would be a culture indication of a typical adjusting, right? So, yeah, explain what you just said about that. That's important. So, it's quite ironic to me that somebody like herself is talking all the shit about Kairos and then really wouldn't yeah So yeah, so you want to take the right? Okay, so others Dan Lois is a college in vascular disorder that I mean it just that it affects

Collagen but more so the collagen that makes up the deal with Justin her rib sure that was broken Yeah, that was broken. He's a music on the engenius. We're not doctors So collagen vascular disorder It's it was seen most recently the most prevalent case that I know or the most famous case is there's a goner in Venus. We're not doctors. So college and vascular disorder, it was seen most recently, the most prevalent case that I know or the most famous case is, there's a kid going into the draft in the NBA a couple of years ago.

He's going to be in the mouth of that. So, you know, tall kid had a lot of talent as a player was gonna make it into the NBA. I forget the tea. I think way to been the nicks, we're looking into them. They said, okay, you know what, once you pass your physical, you're good, drafts next day. Life is set, we're looking into them. They said, okay, you know what, once you pass your physical, you're good,

drafts next day, life is set, you're cruising, man, you're gonna get entry level, whatever that is, 400-something grand, you're fucking set for life, gets the medical back, sorry, you have Aelus Dan loves, you can't play. So Aelus Dan loves, as it affects the collagen, vascular makeup of blood vessels of like the arteries and veins, the biggest

effect it'll have for an athlete like that is on the aortic arch where the blood rapidly is leaving the heart getting circumvented throughout the body. That pressure over time of that blood squeezing out of the heart through that archway is going to slowly erode so under enough exertion, high enough blood pressure, some people have died exactly, ruptured aortic arch, which is interesting. And I think now would be a good time to talk about the VBI so that when Rogan initially stated that chiropractors kill people, he cited this case of the poor girl, the model, the model in Los Angeles, who went in with neck pain to a chiropractor.

But she had fallen from what I had heard, you know, on set. Yeah. And like fell off some stairs and had like whiplash. Yeah. So, okay, so she already is coming into the office with a potential problem. Yeah. You know.

So the VBI, so the vertebral basal or artery is what we're talking about. And now it has this funny route through your vertebral column of your cervical spine makes two hard turns to get up into the brain. Now, at those hard turns, just like the aortic arch with ailer's Dan Lois, with people who may have an undiagnosed collagen vacillator disorder, it's more prevalent with females

on birth control because that damages the cardiovascular or the collagen makeup of that. Slowly over time, what can happen is that at each one of those tributaries of that artery, it's gonna erode more and more away that bank of the turn. Now, what happens with a lot of cases, whether it be a fall or not, when blood gets places, it's not supposed to be in the body, it's in irritant, right? That's what a bruise is, right? Now, imagine blood being not where it's supposed to be in your suboxytopital region of your head of your neck. Yeah, that's going to give you a headache. You're going to go with neck pain. So they did, the Cassidy study is the one they drill home in school because this is a topic we have to cover on the next day-to-day basis. So basically what it looked

at, people who are going to chiropractors with neck pain that have these, these strokes, this incidence of VBI or VBA, whatever you want to call it, are having the stroke. The embolosis form, the water has breached the banks of the river's edge as it turns. That's why they're going in with pain. Most people, for their primary entrance with neck pain, would be a chiropractor. They're coming in with these brutal headache-like symptoms. Have you had one in your office? No.

I know of a few people that have come across them, sent them a media out for an MRA, Magnetic Resonance, Angeogram, right? And then they screen them, boom, they saved. Does that guy get a piece on entertainment weekly? Cold stuff, right? No, you're okay, kill someone. Thank you.

Yeah, exactly. Save my life, you killed me. Yeah, exactly, but that guy in LA is gonna get all the press. So the thing with that is the mechanism is art the stroke is happening Whether it's the backswing at the golf course backing out of your driveway a cervical adjustment Especially in the upper regions is a lot of rotational it's rotational base just the way Whether it be the the Condyls of C1 on the oxypote or the condyls of the oxyput on C1, or C1 and C2,

that articulation is meant to rotate. The ability of ours to find the rotating increases all the way up to C1 and C2. So the mechanism of injury therein is now you have these two almost hairpin turns of these river banks that are already flowing their borders. And now someone comes in thinking that, you know, 10 times out of 10 on a normal day when they adjust a neck like this, and it's just suboxipital tension of the rectus capitis post in your minor,

the bleak muscles, the suboxipital extensor, silver bullet, good. But this time, you know. And the bad thing with that is, she could have been driving in her car and someone honked behind her and she could have quickly turned left her right. She could have stroked out right there as well.

That's our, but we just don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think people are thinking like when they're watching like a movie like Commando and Arnold, you know, sneak up behind someone and I'm like, twist it back to Gil's arm. Boom, that's the finisher. You would have to, you'd have to really,

like I did Jiu Jitsu for six years and people were cranking on my fucking neck hard all the time. Like nobody, people I'm sure have died wrestling and doing that stuff. I've been to chiropractors. They don't crank my neck nearly as hard as the guys I'm wrestling with. So, you know, I think one of the problems with Western medicine is one of its strengths. One of the strengths is we get very specialized. Like you go and become an oste, or you go and, you know, you learn, you know, the heart or the brain. Like, you get in deep, you get in extremely deep

and learn lots of detail about your particular subject, and you don't learn much about the others at all. I mean, you go to an MD, a doctor who's been to school for many, many, many years, they've taken one semester of nutrition. I know more nutrition than I've trained. I used to have my wellness studio was next to a good Samaritan hospital.

A fully 70% of my clients were surgeons and doctors. And they came to me and asked me questions about nutrition, movement, exercise, kinesiology because that was not their specialty. But that becomes a problem with medicine where people learn their one area and then they start to denounce other areas. Or they go to a doctor with a problem.

If I go to an osteopath with knee pain, I can guarantee you right now the likelihood that I'm going to need surgery based on their opinion is much higher than if I go to when you guys or physical therapists or someone who's expertise is in movement. So those are the things we have to look at. And I think medicine is going in this direction. It's not even close to there yet, but it's going in this direction where it's time to look at the whole fucking picture. It wasn't that long ago that Western medicine made fun of meditation.

Meditation was made fun of 20 years ago. Like you were crazy. It was woo-woo. It was bullshit. It 20 years ago. Like you were crazy, it was woo-woo, it was bullshit, it didn't work, and now we have science, you know, supporting meditation very, very strongly for things like anxiety, depression, and paranoia. But let's go back to a little,

I think the beginning on that end is, you're looking at Western medicine, right? You look at our healthcare system, it's not a healthcare system, it's a sick care system. We rehab pain, right? That's what the medical system does, is they rehab pain. No different than someone coming to us over and over and getting an adjustment. They go back to their MD for pills because they have a little back pain. Now all of a sudden, they have to go see a pain management specialist. Now we're doing PRP injections. Now we're doing stem cell injections. Okay, and I get it asked all the time,

should I get it done? Sure, if you're gonna move differently, once you get it done. Because the problem was, is you sucked at moving to begin with, you're still gonna suck afterwards. Why is that gonna fix you? Just because I injected some new shit into your body, doesn't mean all of a sudden,

bam, you're good to go, right? So that's what I hate when people come into the office is, I'm not here to rehab your pain. I'm here to rehab you. What is dysfunctional about your body? That's what's going to breed a problem. Not the pain. The pain is there.

The pain is the first thing to show up or last thing to show up first thing to go away. You know, so, so with, I think he's where, and that goes away, it doesn't mean that you're fixed. But that's what we think. Oh, I'm gonna go out there. I'm gonna go crush 100 miles miles on a run run now,

because I don't have knee pain anymore. Bullshit, your knee is still there. You don't have shitty knees because you have shitty knees, right? You got a problem that's causing shitty knees. It wasn't the run, you know? And I think that's what a lot of people start to look at is, oh, I have pain on my pain's gone. Great. You still suck at movement though. Now, to the defense of actual adjustments. And here's my belief on adjustments and maybe you guys can, I'm sure you guys will correct me

if I'm wrong. But any time you pop a joint or you manipulate your body, if you do it a certain way, you may feel some immediate pain relief. And there's a few theories as to why. One of them is, there's pain receptors, nocy receptors I think they're called. And when you cause certain movements,

they'll signal the body and the body releases pain killers. And this may be why when you go get an adjustment, you get immediate pain relief, or why when you get a massage, you get immediate pain relief, or, you know, now can that benefit you in the long term? Yes. And the way I think it can benefit you is,

if your pain was severely preventing you from moving it away that's beneficial, then getting rid of that pain will help the process. So, hey, I can't bend over. My back is fucked. You adjust me. Now I can move enough to do the exercises that correct the problem.

I mean, you want to talk evidence-based medicine. And this really made me laugh about this side-based person on Rogan Show. Evidence-based medicine begins and ends as far as like impact factor quality of research, strongest correlation, diet and exercise. Period, hands down. There is not an intervention of any sort of subset

of medicine, psychology, psychiatry, cardiothoracic surgery, anything that has a higher correlation to positive outcomes and diet indexicides, hands down barna. And what is every MD sending their patient to go? Go see the PT. Check your diet every single time. That's what they're doing.

After them, I've heard my feet just some pills, but go see your PT also. Right? You better lose some weight. Okay. And I think that too, a common misconception is, we talked about the spinal injections that can make you move different. I have no problem with like, people come in and ask about like,

corduzone injections to their knee. They're near their knee. Love them and hate them. Exactly. If they can bring you to a point where we can put you in these unstable positions to stabilize and strengthen where we need, yeah, absolutely. But most people, they get the corduzone,

their pain goes away, they never see us again, or the PT, or the massage, whoever they're seeing. I tell you get the corduzone. I tell you get it again. And then it didn't stick this much, it was six months before, now it's six days. Why? Because you still suck at the way you moved.

And that court is also just breaking that. Well, the way I look at it is if I have a knee pain because I'm moving poorly and you inject me with Cortezone, which is a very, very potent, acute local anti-inflammatory. So now all the pain is gone for my knee or substantially gone. Now I can move badly like I did before,

and I could just do it even worse and not feel pain, and now I'm getting have problems with my knee. Or cortisone shot, pain is gone. Now, you know, Dr. Brink or shallow, show me how to move properly, and I can do it now because my name isn't hurt, and I'm correcting the root of the problem. Now, how do you guys use adjustments then?

Do you use adjustments to help people to be able to do the exercises? Or how should they be used, I guess, would be a better question? I look at where the joint is restricted. So they may come with a low back issue. Most people's low backs are because the low back loves to give, give, give, give, and give. Usually the hips are what are restricted on that and mid back on the other end. So if I'm going to adjust something, I'm going to mobilize the hip, I'm going to mobilize the mid back. I will rarely ever touch someone's low back.

Because most people's low backs are so jacked to begin with, I don't need to keep creating rotation into their back. Leave it alone. But the other guy, oh, they adjust me all the time, I pain in a way. Yeah, and why are you here? Yeah. I mean, low back, buy a design is meant to be stable. Yeah. He'll have to offer back meant to be valuable. So, I mean, addressing, and it's different by case to case,

but I do the same. Like, the adjustment is an adjunct. It is not the center to what we do. And when we do it, we do it better than people who have now seen the value of it it because we've been trained to do it Now we just need to sort of pick and choose where that where that adjustment should occur But I mean it's all movement based frankly like when you're laying down face up face down on my table That's great. I very rarely do people feel pain in that position

Let's put a bar and hurts when I squat guess what? Yeah, we got 38 squat racks outside the door. Let's roll. It hurts when I deadlift. Alright, because we could send someone away with the corrective exercise and all that, but there's a difference between corrective exercise and exercising correctly. Which I mean, as you guys know, as a history of training,

that people are like, oh, you're familiar with that? Oh yeah, deadlift and all the time. Knock knees, dog taking a shit up or back. Just total nightmares. Okay, I mean, we could align the tires, going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen.

I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen.

I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I said, right? As we are teaching you to move better, right? To exercise correctly, right?

Not correct exercise, but we want you to exercise correctly. We want to make sure that every joint in your body is actually doing what it should be doing. The muscle is going to follow what the joint does, right? If your joint is restricted, the muscle is not going to follow you. You know, it's going to say crap, I'm perceiving a threat here

because the joint itself isn't doing its job. So if I perceive threat, what's the threat going to do? It's going to protect it. It's going to protect by naturally becoming tighter. So over time, what have you done? You've just made yourself tighter and tighter and tighter, but go ahead and go foam roll all you want. You never fix the joint itself.

And this is why I think in my practice, when I had my facility, I worked very closely with chiropractor, physical therapist, massage therapist, and myself. And we would all, you know, we'd all work together, and our success rate went through the roof chair. The other thing too is, and I want to really, you know, really quickly, I want to strike down the myth that creating a model that requires your patience to see you over and over again is not a successful business model. Now intuitively we think it is, right? Like, oh, they're gonna need, it would be like me being a personal trainer saying, I can't get them too lean because once they get lean, they're gonna need me more. I gotta keep them kind of fat.

It doesn't fucking work. The reality is, if you want to be an effective practitioner of whatever you're doing, fucking solve the problem or figure out or connect to people you can't solve the problem. Since you're going to draw that parallel, I feel like it's necessary we talk about that because that's the same issue that we see in our field is, and that is exactly how most trainer teaches you is, you come, you hire me, you're 30 pounds overweight, and I'm going to restrict your calories, hammer the fuck out of your body, and try and get you as much results as I possibly can over the course of six to eight weeks. And then what happens, you can't maintain that, you can't keep that up. So you fall out of shape, you come back and you hire me six months later when you're getting

ready for a Hawaii trip or Las Vegas trip or getting ready for a wedding. And it's this vicious cycle versus actually addressing the root cause, which is what we talk about all the time on the show, addressing your relationship with food, addressing your relationship with exercise, and yourself and your own body image, and understanding that before you even go that direction. It's very similar. And that in itself is true healthcare.

Right. That is not what our medical system is based upon. Our medical system is based upon sick care, right? My motivation from a business standpoint, is to get you as better as possible, so you can go after yourself once again, so you can get back in mind. I tell that, I tell, I tell them at all the time.

I'm like, my job is to get you out of here as fast as you can, because I know at some point you will hurt yourself again, and I'll see you again, because what we did is we fixed you right the first time, but I know you as an athlete, you're still gonna go out there, you're gonna push the envelope, and I'm okay with that.

I've done it myself, both ACLs, torn, back surgery, I've done it, and I still do it, and I ACLs, torn, back surgery, I've done it. And I still do it. And I'm gonna sit there and say, and I'll preach to them, I'm gonna do exactly what you do. Anything that I give you, I do myself. So I will make sure that, hey, I'm walking the walk, but I wanna go after true healthcare.

Right, right, right. And I think to bring this point about healthcare versus sick care, where I like what you guys do, I think even we are to upper echelon with healthcare. We should not, we're primary entrance for a lot of people here. That's the doctor title allows us to people walking off the street into the office. All right, what's going on?

I think what you guys are doing to, I mean, I think more of your audience is the personal training crowd. When I was a trainer, and I still train to this day because take my best tools away from me, take my hands away from me, and I can still get results. I train hour long sessions with clients, maybe 20 hours a week because that's healthcare.

So if we can get trainers on board to not do this, call your restricted bullshit, set them up for a fail so they have to come back for the wedding or the Hawaii trip, but get them on board with the assessment. That's why I put out the media that I put out because I think the ability to assess at that entry level, at a training level, give them the autonomy to take care of themselves. Then if something they can't handle, me and Brinker here. But I think that's a lot

of the insecurities that, you know, in our profession or as a personal trainer, right? I may lose this person. So, so I'm going to keep them right here. So they have to keep coming back and rely on me. Like, I don't care about that. Go and leave because if I can fix you in two and three or four or five S, whatever it might be depending on the issue, and you are a hundred percent as to what you can do, you're gonna refer one, two, five, ten, twenty people into see me. I'm okay with that.

Look, I had clients, I mean, my average clients they owe me for ten years. I mean, that's way above what the average personal trainer can expect with, you know, in terms of clients staying with them. And I, that was my approach. My approach was I'm going to solve this problem. I'm going to really help them in a true way. And your business ends up growing. I think there is a bit of a misconception. And yes, the Western medicine model is sick care. I don't necessarily think it's this massive conspiracy to, you know, to take our money and keep us sick. I just think that the nature of the beast tends to direct us

in that direction. For example, for example, if I'm a pharmaceutical company and I want to come out with a medication for cancer, I want to come out with a cancer drug, I know the FDA process is going to cost me about a billion dollars, a billion dollars. At the least it's going to be hundreds of million dollars to get this process approved and tested done. It's like a 10 year process. Now, am I going to invest in this potentially new avenue of treatment that may be a cure? Like, oh, look at, can Abinoids make your cancer?

Let's invest half a billion dollars in this to see if it actually work. Or I can take my money and make a type of chemo that I know chemo's gonna do something. I'm gonna tweak it a little bit and change it a little bit and I know it's gonna get approved and I know I'm gonna get some money out of it. And that, it's just a nature of the beast

where if I go to the doctor and let's say this, this MD is excellent. Let's say this MD understands nutrition understands exercise just on a whole new level. The the likelihood that the average person going to a doctor with a heart problem or you know blood lipid levels that are all over the place, the likelihood that that person is going to take the advice of the doctor who says listen, we need to completely change our lifestyle versus here's a pill, take this every day and you're fine.

It's much, much lower. So part of the problem is us. I really think part of the problem is us. Nobody wants to go to a doctor and hear that the answer to their problem is change their fucking life. Yeah, that's them coddling them, right? And that's our system is to coddle you to what do you want,

not what do you need? I think that's the part of healthcare, regardless of being, it's because say that MD that knows the value of all this and preaches that to everyone. All right, this is what we're gonna do. You have cancer, we're gonna go keto, the best preacher says when you're going into chemo, we'll get you into ketosis and all that,

and goes for that complete overhaul. So, I mean, we have, I'm sure, an Alexa conno-corrective exercise, but we need to realize who's in front of us. Give me a high end athlete, someone who's jobbed of feeding their wife and kids to relies on and NFL guys, UFC guys, whoever. If I give them 10 of the best research

and in my experience, the best second four-year condition, 10 out of 10, they're gonna do it. You experience, the best active for their condition, 10 out of 10 there. You bring me the CEO from the Silicon Valley set up time. Exactly. So I got to pick and choose from that list because I know these 10 out of 10 would do it. This would fix his imbalance, fix his instability, move better, feel better.

This guy works 22 hour days, he's on calls to China, he's on planes to Japan every other week. What can I fit into this guy's life? So it's taking that here have a pale go and taking that blood lipopanel. Here's we're gonna overhaul your life and Meeting it somewhere in the middle and I think that's an art form that honestly, I think that Call it alternative medicine chiropractors PT's acupuncturism massage therapist is a model that they adopt better than MDs Because the you need to understand the person the Persie not the symptom well, and it comes back to I'm sure you get it all the time is you know what exercises best for me

I say the one you're gonna do Right right no, I mean did you guys become best friend? With the pain thing. It's just like I got I got a new tire practice But the pain thing is just like, I got to do chiropractic. Sorry, stay back. No, I think, you know, there's a few flaws with the Western way and the scientific method way of proving things. And one of the flaws is that they'll say things like, you know, there's no evidence. Well, what they consider evidence is rigorous science, and which is fine. By the way, I think if you're going to have

evidence, that's one of the best methods is to use the scientific method. The double blind placebo control trial control, you know, all that stuff, peer reviewed research. I think that's some of the best. However, can it be influenced and skewed by special interests? Yes, we have strong evidence of that. There was tons have strong evidence of that. There was tons of fucking evidence showing that cigarettes were not addictive during the time when we were trying to come out against them.

And there's many, many other examples. Can is it slow? Fuck yeah, it's a very slow process. And I know this because I have personal experience. I have a family member with Crohn's disease, very, very bad Crohn's disease disease his mother is a nutritionist. She's a licensed Nutritionist now her understanding nutrition was from that that model and so she approached it from that model And nothing was fucking working as it right now your treatment for Crohn's when you go to the doctor is high doses of steroids

And if it's really bad then they actually give you a form of chemotherapy to really shut down your immune system to reduce this autoimmune effect that it can be de-abilitating and sometimes fatal in people. So this licensed nutritionist, Ant of Mine, went online and she looked at all the forums. All, and luckily, technology now allows us to do this. And she read all these forums, all these Crohn's sufferers and she got advice that was

not scientifically backed yet. One of the things that she learned from these people was there was something called a carbohydrate specific diet that tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people with Crohn's were using to great success. So she applied it to her son and reversed his Crohn's disease. Now does their scientific evidence that the carbohydrate specific diet works on Crohn's disease? Not yet.

But you can look and see anecdote. And when there's a lot of enough anecdotes, a lot of times that points you in the right direction. So I really fucking hate it when I hear the science crowd denounce all anecdotes or denounce anything that doesn't have potential side of the hard scientific evidence. I'm gonna end up eating crow later on anyway.

That's what I'm always talking about. Many times they do, especially not in basement. Not reading, like we talked about interpreting research. Which makes me laugh about this side babe character because it's like show me one peer reviewed publication. Not JAMA, a journal of American Medical Association, not New Journal or New England Journal of Medicine, about this side babe character because it's like show me one peer reviewed publication not jamma journal american medical association not new journal or new england journal medicine nothing her biggest publication to date is on a a shit stirring website that no longer exists because they got sued by

hall cogan and peter teal sorry got that gocker article that she went after I swear to god the gocker article that she went after the food babe the food was was her claim to fame and if you'll read that on her Wikipedia page which reads like a poorly written tender ad it's awful she clearly wrote that but her main publication is on gawker you're not a scientist show me one one fucking published peer-review journal article you're that's bullshit by her own criteria well yeah yeah, I'm glad we went back to direction two.

I was gonna say and bring up vaccinations with her for talking about science and all that type of stuff. I mean, that's a crazy part right there. It's like, she's saying that we are adjusting babies and then we're telling them, don't get vaccinated. Both my kids are vaccinated, I'm vaccinated. No problems, but there are others that do have problems. But yet, we still feed our kids every single day with food. That really sucks. So is the food worse?

Is the vaccination worse? Because the government now is sitting there saying, well, I don't know, we're going to sit there and now we're going to put our hand into it, but they haven't put their hand into the food market yet. Well, because the food market's hand is in there. Exactly. Well, when they say when she says stuff like, we need the FDA to cover this, we need more regulation. I cringe very, very strongly because, do I believe regulations have done some good? Yes.

Are they infallible? Fuck no, they have made some, they have done some horrible, horrible decisions. They've made some horrible recommendations. I mean, they're Medicaid, you have any medications every year that were approved to the lengthy FDA process that then get retracted and like, oh, sorry, let's take these off the market because we're finding now they cost. What a heartburn. Heartburn. Another ear.

Some of those heartburn medications now that are over the count are like, oh, it looks like it, it 25% increase in all cars mortality and dementia. Well, listen to every commercial that's out there at the very end. They have a litany of what might go wrong. Yeah, and oftentimes you may die. At one, I want to take that. One of the things that's listed is usually the thing,

it's the very thing it's starting to. Sure. And I mean, you can speak on this about not even just interventions, pharmacology, pharmacology interventions, but surgery. Sure. How many spinal surgery have you found it on nothing? Exactly.

But you got to clean up the mess. But you got to clean up the mess. And again, going back into sort of the pain and the rehab part of things. And I see it all the time. People like, oh, well, I hear back surgery sucks. If it was that bad, they wouldn't be doing it anymore. They'd be shutting down. The problem is that it's not that the back surgery's sucked

because a surgeon did do his job is what you didn't do afterwards. Right, right, don't make it happen. Yeah, and they don't want to hear that. But the surgeon did do it, no, they did. They fixed your crappy back, you know. You just didn't fix the rest of your crappy movement pattern that you'd already had prior to that.

That caused the crappy back. Yeah, they fixed structure, you had to on you to fix fun. I want to address something too, because there was a part in Joe's episode that he seemed confused. I totally understood why. I think, and I think you guys can articulate it even better than me is why she was told not to do yoga. I think he seems so baffled by that advice. It's quite obvious to me why she wouldn't be doing that

considering her condition. Can you explain that why that she was told that why that actually was probably good advice that she shouldn't be doing something like yoga. I think that would double back to the Ayla's Danlos condition, right? So here you have something that can weaken the the integrity of your of the interliding of your, your blood vessels. And now that is not specific. I mean, granted, there are a lot of different collagen types in your body. But it's not just specific to the, the interlument of the blood vessel. So she is prone as I find most of the, so she's probably lack,

she's got really lack of, yeah, for lack of, or, for, to put a fine point on it. That would be exactly the reason why I think I'm going go out there and stretch something beyond what it needs to be stretched in whatever capacity that it might be, even though it could be gentle yoga, but it's put in her into a compromised position, which they don't know what that end result might be. Well, stability is a fine balance between flexibility and strength. Yeah, we talk about this all the time. Well, it's the ability to exist movement. Yeah, right. Not generate force. Right.

But having all of this range of motion with no strength is useless range of motion. Right. That's why her shoulder dislocated all the time and she gets older. Well, that's the inverted bell curve of hypermobility and immobility, right? It's not a linear progression.

People shouldn't strive to be as mobile as her. They should strive to be in the center of that curve. You don't want to be the contortionist. And you also don't want to be the fat as her. They should strive to be in the center of that curve. You don't wanna be the contortionist, and you also don't wanna be the fat power lifter that can't put a shoe on. You wanna be somewhere right in the middle where I am. People don't realize, how many yoga instructors I used to train with hip problems?

Oh for sure. Because the hips are so, they always stretch the hips and open them up and they come see me with hip problems, and we would strengthen their hips with squats and lunges and boom, hip pain was gone. Had nothing to do with their lack of flexibility. I mean, they were incredibly flexible. That's most my dancers that I treat, right?

Is again, they have amazing ranges of motion. They just can't control that range of motion at end ranges. So once they get there all of a sudden, they're hanging on their ligaments and crap's gonna go wrong. And if I'm not mistaken, cause you guys are having Spina here. Nice, nice, nice.

That's everywhere. Yeah, FRC from what I've gathered. Is that end range control, which I think is huge. Yeah, yeah. Get into the end range, connect to the muscle contracts, you've got some stability there. Back to the whole regulatory aspect and that we need more and more and more regulations for our safety, economists talk about a lot of times the unseen. And I'll give you an example. Let's use FDA regulations for medications that we use all the time. We talk about how we need these strict, strict, strict regulations and process with the FDA, which now costs, like I said,

up to a billion dollars just to approve a drug. What we don't see are all the potential drugs that never get approved, that never get passed, all of the chances and opportunities that we don't take because of the cost of this regulation. And many economists actually equate that to more deaths than the ones we actually get with the drugs that we approve that then turn out to be bad. I mean, think about it. Think about all the potential treatments that never even get explored because the potential cost of just trying to get them approved is so high that they don't even look in those directions. And so we end up developing treatments on top of treatments which are based on the same

faulty models and we don't look in other directions. There's medications that are amazing that are improved in other countries that can't afford to be approved in this country because of our process. So more and more and more regulation isn't the fucking answer. In fact, I would say less regulation is the answer, especially considering now that technology is where it's at. There's a device that are being tested at the moment that actually uses, I don't know exactly how it works, but it fires out a laser, the way it refracts,

comes back to the computer in this particular device, and it tells you everything that's in that food, based on that, your proteins, fats, carbohydrates, chemicals, everything. When those become readily available, do we, why are we having any other kinds of regulations? Because you need to not substitute regulation with technology, but rather with education, right? Because we have these tools now that we can measure these advanced biometrics that used to take weeks and weeks and weeks and blood tests and set out to labs

and all this stuff and bam, and it's on your phone. But what do you do with that information? Right, and that I think is a huge problem with the education side. Yes, and you talked about, go ahead, just. No, I didn't say that. Well, I mean, I just think you talked about

like the perpetual cycle that we're in. There's a great book called Honest Medicine by Norton Hadler. So he's an MD and he goes over a basic physical exam and the components of a physical exam and examines the research of what we think to be ironclad medicine. Looks into, you know, you should you take aspirin for primary prevention of a stroke or something

like that. And he goes into these things that are so just set in our ways because we've evolved to this point in Western medicine and it actually puts a really fine light on it and goes, listen, like, we're still trying to figure this out. Like we don't, we don't have a good hold on this. And that's the thing where that light of just trying to figure it out gets put on us. Because we're going to go ahead.

That goes back to that education component of it. If that client walks through the door, our job is to educate them as to what they're going to do when they walk outside our door again, they are smarter than they walked in. Right? So they know what to do in order to make themselves better. That's not to come back and see me if that's the case. And you know what the definition of doctor is by Latin based, it's teacher. Yeah. Right?

So that like what he just, he just hit the nail in the head and that's exactly what any doctor should do. Whether that be a doctor of chiropractic, an MD or otherwise, it's the education. And if the business gets in front of that, that's when I have to keep seeing that person over and over and over again, which then goes back into why our profession then is saying, oh, I need to see you three times a week for 300 years. You know, it's like, no, no, my job is not to do that. My job is to educate you. But then it also goes back and I think in our educational process, which is a business. And the business is to keep having people come through the doors, which then goes back into,

okay, is our weed out process, because now we can go down this rabbit hole. Yes, there's a weed out process for MDs and PTs and that type of stuff, you know, as the chiro school, not so much, you know, and that's one of my biggest pet peeves. There is no weed out process. There needs to be one. Yeah. You want to regulate who comes and who doesn't, and to weed out the bottom feeders from the top feeders Now you're referring to the because they mentioned this that yeah, everybody who applies to a chiropractor school gets accepted Not everyone. I mean, there's a small baseline that you know that you have to have. I think our real our real Gatekeeper if you will is the national board exam. Yeah, right? of gatekeeper, if you will, is the national board exam. Yeah, that's the thing.

So you go through the education, but that doesn't mean you're exactly. The schools are designed to pass you through the national board, so you educate you what you need to know. And I think there is a big honest on the board of chiropractic examiners, and I just recently wrote just a couple of years ago, my final of my four national board exams,

to get my license, and there's studying for the test and then there's stuff that I use in practice. And there's a dissonance there. And I totally agree that the board is lagging on what is forced as gatekeeping knowledge to set people out into the world with. Well, let me ask you guys this, because I respect the hell out of you guys

for your movement knowledge. I said this earlier in the episode in your correctional exercise knowledge and exercise knowledge in general. How much of that did you learn in chiropractic school and how much of that did you learn on your own? Yeah. So if you come into my office, you'll see my diploma that's on there from Palmer, right? Is what got me to the means, but you'll look at all the other, I don't know how for many freaking letters

you wanna put after my name, if that was a case, you know. And that's where I'm at right now, right? And that's been sort of post school knowledge. And that's me taking stuff from training, from PTs, from other Cairo's, from whatever it might be, and trying to figure out, okay, how does this all mix into how I do stuff? That's a great quote.

I would love to ask both you because I do too. I hold you guys both in this very high regard. And what would you guys both say of all the different certifications and bits of knowledge and people, what do you think has been one of the biggest game changers for you or maybe even a paradigm shattering moment for you in your career that was like, man, when I took that certification or when that really came together for me, you guys have...

Train. Train yourself. Train yourself. Chire practice school can lead you to a point to ask better questions and interpret more abstract answers and not just, it gives you an internal logical consistency of how the body works. And I think the most I've learned from, and I'm sure you've taken much more certifications than I have, because I'm more or less nude all this, but I find physically putting myself through, we've spoken on this before, I have patients

that assume I'll deadlift, and it's like, okay, I know how the hip mechanics work, I know how the low back works, I can see as a powerlifter, the advantage of doing that, but I can't feel, I've never done that. I'm conventional deadlift during competition. So what do I do? I do a training walk assuming deadlift, not get it. I get it that that that kinematic awareness that progress after wearing is tapping into that movement pattern, understanding what

they're feeling and then being able to use my knowledge base from school, my understanding of the anatomy of biomechanics. That to me and again I'm new'm new to this, has been the biggest game, we'll call it game changer for me. So would you say that that's a problem with chiropractic today, is that people graduate, pass the exam, boom, now I'm just, now I'm a chiropractor, I'm going to work on people and they don't further their learning and education. Yeah, and back 10 years ago, when I graduated, you know, I mean, a statistic was in five years, 50% of your class will not be practicing anymore. So, and I see that, you know, and I think the reason for that is is,

A, there is no weed out process, right? So, or, but you also have the complete bookworm that has no idea how to hold a conversation, right? And our profession, we have to be able to talk to someone because we're sitting there having a conversation, they have to lay down on the table. We have to put our hands on them, right? You know, whereas again you look at an MD, they don't care, right? They have an influx of people coming in no matter what we have to go out and essentially sell our self if you will You know, and as we're doing that, you know

How do you do that? And they don't teach you that in school? So now all of a sudden you get out you get weeded out well then how is that any different than the person that's next door to you? And we freak out because, you know, oh, you're, you know, you're right next to another chiropractor. Yeah. So what? I've got, you know, three that are two doors down for me, but I promise you, those and what I do are night day different, which is the problem. Yeah. You know, so going back into, you know, like, like myself is what did I learn? You know, I mean, my 10 years has evolved completely, but that's also evolved because, hey, I've injured myself, so I went to PT's and I did my own.

So I learned, and then as I kept learning, I'm always evolving into what's the next thing? What's the next thing? So for me over the past two years has been like, more like animal flow, FRC, kin stretch, going back to how does my body actually work? And how do I feel my body work? The biggest thing is how can I feel it work?

You know, versus not just doing the motion, because someone so said, do this movement. How do I feel? Do I actually feel my body doing what they say it should be doing? Or can I not connect to that area? Now to your guys' defense, this is true for any profession. Yeah, I was just for sure. You can get the most regulated like, you know, you know knee surgeon or you know, whatever. Just four out of five dentist think that fifth dentist is an asshole like

I mean, that's true for any I think the important thing that I have always Applied to myself and I've always tried to preach to people is to question things, always question things. Like they talk about vaccines in that episode as if vaccines are like, it's 100% awesome. Everybody gets every vaccine and it's like, look, all vaccines are not the same. They just fucking aren't by nature. They're not all the same. This one has a particular virus in it and this one has something else. And what they put in them and the amount that we give people now is far, far more. When I was a kid, you know, they give us like two at one time. Now you go to the doctor and your kids get 500. He's getting a shit ton of up and part of the process of the body developing immunity

is this immune stimulation, this stimulation immune system, which can cause inflammation. It can cause a fever. I know my kids get a fever after they get a vaccine totally normal. Well, could there potentially be a fucking difference between giving a kid 10 in one day and giving them one or between different vaccines? Of course there is, there can be. Well, there was a guy who was like touted

as the guy who brought vaccines into Western medicine. His son wrote a book flying in the face of his father at about a limited vaccine schedule. So here you have not only internal dissension within the medical community, you have an internal dissension within a family of people that brought immunization to the forefront and then someone like his son stepped back

and went, oh no, no, this is too much. I mean, I don't give it wrong. Like we mentioned the last podcast, like we kicked polio's ass. And I think there is a shared responsibility of herd immunity. Like, if you have something like measles that you need to keep that herd immunity above like 85%.

Something like polio, you need to keep that up. Because if that drops too low, then you have. And I think that's their fear. I think, and it, I mean, it's starting to shoot them in the foot. I mean, there's specific organizations that exist specifically to defend vaccine companies in case of lawsuit and to keep it quiet mainly because you know it's easy to it's very hard to educate people it's very easy to scare the shit out of people.

Like you said one chiropractor who's a shitty one kills some lady because she's got some disorder because he adjusted her neck. Well now fucking people are scared of getting adjustments. If I write an article tomorrow, and I get the statistics on how many children get strangled by their seatbelts, I guarantee you a lot of parents aren't going to put seatbelts on their kids because they read that. That's very easy to scare people. And so, you know, that's kind of, you know, part of the problem. And I think, here's my problem is force.. Like don't fucking force anybody to do anything. And I understand herd immunity, I get that. That's a hard science.

But the second I hear the government, the same government that in turn Japanese people and segregated blacks and gave syphilis to black prisoners, not that long ago, is the same government that's gonna tell me you have to fucking do this. I don't think so. Let me question it and then I'll make my own decision. And that holds true for everything though. Right. You should always be questioning and I get that question from the forum all the time.

Hey, I'm seeing this Cairo, I'm seeing this Cairo, I'm seeing this Cairo. What do you think? I'm like, I don't know, what do you think? If you think at all you have a question, go somewhere else. If you have the choice. Yeah, I mean, you have the choice to sit there and say, do I think that this person's legit or not? And if you have to question that, there's your answer. And that questioning should permeate every level of medicine that you go to. Yeah.

Just because a surgeon says you need surgery, it does not mean you need surgery. And Rogan even talked about it. He's like, I went to some dude in the Hollywood that you know, it was 140 bucks. Okay, if you thought that that was too expensive or you talked about it. He's like, I went to some dude in the Hollywood that, you know, was $140. Okay, if you thought that that was too expensive or you weren't getting your money's worth, why'd you keep going? You know, go somewhere else.

You've got a big enough name and I guarantee every person out there would take you. You know? So, yeah. And he's doing his proper in a brain. I'm like, geez. Well, I would like, you know, another, I would like a debate or discussion with this young lady with some chiropractors at our legit

and have a nice day. I would love to have her come and see me. Yeah, I would say, we'll host you. Sure, we'll host you. I would love to have it. Maybe between Joe's, can maybe this gets to Joe and maybe with his connections with her, we can organize it.

I'd fly her out here. Yeah, she's just down so cal. Yeah, yeah, not far. Yeah, no shit, I'd fly her out here. She's just down so calm Yeah, yeah, no shit. I'll fly her out. I mean, we pay for her to come in here to to host that But you know to be honest with you listening to her talk to Joe and then when he actually even started it took about an hour or so in the episode before you start to hear him start to kind of challenge her thinking on stuff Yeah, I mean she was all over the board. Yeah, I was just like I can't believe he even had this girl on the show I can't believe he's allowing her to slam a whole population of people and put them all in one box just because her thoughts on this, like ridiculous.

But if that's one person's thought, there's a million others have the same thought. Right. Right. So now there's more. Yes. And now there's more, which is great because again, for us, maybe this is a way that helps progress our profession. This is a way to help push us. I'll be like, okay, all these bottom feeders right now that are feeding on the bottom that are doing all the crappy stuff, hopefully that is something that will start to change because of that.

And again, change is gonna have to happen in the educational system first, because the people that are you out there, they're still gonna do it, they're gonna do it because they've already built that business model. Well, this was an important factor on that played. And when we actually even aligned ourselves with you guys, I mean, all three of us have got, I don't know, between all three of us, I don't know how many, probably hundreds of

chiropractors that we've either worked with, done stuff with and never have we ever brought somebody in here and said, listen, we're going to attach ourselves with these guys because we believe What they're doing is is incredible and is good work and there needs to be more people like you guys So you know, I hope that this this platform is one that we can get people like you guys Out there to more people because there is and I was someone like Joe Rogan so that I get it. I understand How you could have a bad taste in your mouth because it wasn't one it wasn't to it was quite a few for me That I went through that I was like fuck man these guys How can these guys not help me in an area that I feel like they're they're supposed to be more educated than I am

And I just kept running into that and if it wasn't for me meeting bring first I probably wouldn't have been open mind enough to even listen to another guy I mean like you it's the same same goes with a listen to another guy. I mean, it's the same goes with the medical doctors, well, I mean, I had a bad experience where just coming in, they're basing everything off of BMI still and they're sending me stuff to get to this obesity clinic. And they didn't even look at me and realize

I lifted weights and, you know, they're still touting the same shit. Yeah, so, you know, like, I don't know, it all just need to really be critical and think for yourself going into, you know, getting help and do your education. And so I think it's important that people like you are out there and like, you're trying to teach people, like, look,

like if you're coming in with these issues, like here's the steps you're gonna take and you have to do the work yourself. Dude, I had a very close family member who had came out obese and I'll never forget on the record just to put out there he's obese ish I I according to your BMI I had a very close family member with cancer and I went with her to her oncology appointments and I asked nutrition questions and his answer was I don't know his answer no it wasn't even I don't know I would have I would have loved that I would have loved I don't know. They don't know he literally said no nutrition has no effect. It's not yeah don't change your eating eat whatever you crave

It's not going to have any effect on what we're doing you know Dermatologists will say this I've got I've got that with my psoriasis when I go So I've been seen a dermatologist for fucking, I don't know how many years now, I've had 25 I've had psoriasis. And I've been asking them every single time. I'll bring all kinds of new research to them. So I just read this.

What do you think about that? Oh no, no, no, no, no, just give the shots, take the pills, take the creams. It's like constantly that. Walk the walk. Yeah, it's like, dude, it's, how can you tell me that nutrition has no, plays no role in my It's how can how can you tell me that Nutrition has no plays no role in my skin. That doesn't make sense to me. How does that make sense to you guys and how you guys Prechante so it's it's everywhere. It's not just every chiro's

Clearly teaching the You guys don't teach that yeah, you guys don't teach that got lemon water in my office all the time You guys don't teach that guy lemon water in my office all the time. I don't know what that was. He tells you I had no idea that I was like, I'm not, wait, am I in a real chiropractor? Am I just, I'm not in the know. Yeah, I can't really know. Teach him alkala and give him lemons.

I think the other part of the problem is just that, you know, you have these people, usually the answer somewhere in the middle, right? And you've got people way over here where everything is, you know, western medicine. Then you've got chiropractors who tend to go way over here where their anti-Western medicine and everything that's not Western medicine has value.

And it's those people, those outliers that aren't really don't make up a majority, but they can make a decent chance to give everybody the most noise. You make the most noise and they give people a bad name. Again, like we're talking about doctors, like, there's some great fucking amazing doctors. I work with a ton of them. Exactly, so. A ton ofuros and sports or those and pain management specialists and and that's the lovely thing about that

Is they send them back to see me right because they know what we're doing Well listen I know I know that you guys have plenty of people you need to go kill today So I don't want to I don't want to go I gotta go rock and crack Yeah, I know you guys have some lives you need to go ruin so I want to go like a new rack and crack. Oh, awesome. I'm trying to go around. I'm the track and crazy. Yeah. I know you guys have some lives. You need to go ruin.

So I want to make sure that I let you. I appreciate you guys coming in the studio today. I'm sure we'll do follow ups to this. If you guys real quick, best place to find both you, Jordan, all your best places to get a hold of you. Hi, theMuscleDoc.com's a website. You can email me at jordenthymuscle.com, Instagram, the underscore muscle-unnatured doc,

you can find me on Twitter, same thing. Excellent, how about you, Brad? Premiere Spine in Sport, that's my office, that's the IG and Facebook and all that type of stuff. Premiere Spine in Sport. Yeah, excellent. We're gonna do a free webinar actually with Dr. Brink, where we go through Prime Pro and break it down for

you for free. So we're going to show you assessments and we'll show you some exercises and how to correct some of the problems that you may find with your body when you do these assessments. The place to register for this free webinar is maps prime pro dot com. Also you can check us out on Instagram at Mind Pump Media and we all have personal pages. Mine is Mind Pump Sal, Justin is Mind Pump Justin, Adam is Mind Pump Adam, and Doug the producer is Mind Pump Doug.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media dot com. Check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal and Amin Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having

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