Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 590: Josh Trent of Wellness Force on the Future of Tech in Fitness & Beyond

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mime Pump, our boy stops by. You know what? Here's one of my favorite things about podcasting. We get to meet other podcast hosts. For the most part, I've liked them all.

Starting point is 00:00:24 I don't think I haven't. There's only one that I think was a douchebag. We will mention his name, but unwrenchable. But everybody else I really like. Some of them we've become really good friends with. Totally. Josh Trent from Wellness Force, the Wellness Force podcast. He's definitely one of our boys now. Like, I love the guy. He's got a great approach to fitness, a great understanding to fitness. He's got a great story. He's a great podcaster. He's very talented in that particular spirit. He's easy to talk to. You know, he's one of those guys that you could just get into conversation with pretty serious. He's very growth-minded

Starting point is 00:00:59 like us. And he has a similar history. We all grew up in 24 our fitness so it's a great time talking to him because we have all kinds of stories that we can share. And this is one of those guys who we all remain in contact with and talk to outside of the podcast. So this is someone I would consider a friend of ours too in addition to being another podcast host and we'll be with him up and talk or he'll be with us up in Tahoe coming up. So good, good guy. If you're a mind-pump listener and you're looking for,

Starting point is 00:01:27 and you want even more content on fitness, on fitness tech, on that kind of information, go over to Wellness Force on iTunes and give it a listen, subscribe. It's a great podcast and they're doing pretty well, but it's up and coming. I think they're gonna continue to do even better. So he's definitely gonna grow.

Starting point is 00:01:46 I mean, they are definitely making moves. And I love just like his perspective of fitness and how he's very much involved in CES. So if people out there know about CES, the consumer electronic, whatever the S is for, but basic indexes. I was good. Anyway, so yeah, that basically, he runs like a panel there and everything and includes up to date sort of information about like what big companies are doing to try and kind of get into our fitness base

Starting point is 00:02:20 and how we can navigate with that stuff. Smart dude. The website is wellnessforce.com, of course, the podcast is wellnessforce. Also, this summit. Also, this month, if you enroll in any maps program, so whether you do maps and a ballac, which is our foundational program,

Starting point is 00:02:37 or maps performance, which is our athletic-based program, or maps aesthetic, which is our more bodybuilding or bikini-type program, or maps anywhere, which is our equipment-free maps program, or Maps aesthetic, which is our more body building or bikini type program, or Maps anywhere, which is our equipment free Maps program. Roll in any of those, we'll give you Maps Prime for free. Maps Prime's got a self-assessment tool, teaches you where your imbalances are, and helps you create a pre-priming session before your workout. So it's not a warm-up.

Starting point is 00:03:02 It's a priming session. It takes about 10 minutes, and it really maximizes the effect of any workout, or any athletic endeavor that you do. You'll get that for free, even if you enroll in the bundle. However, if you enroll in the Super Bundle, which is one year's with the exercise programming, which includes most of our programs, which also includes Maps Prime,

Starting point is 00:03:22 we will give you Maps Prime Pro for free, which is our largest investment program for a reason. It's correctional, it's breakthrough, the movements you find in Prime Pro you won't find. It'll be very hard to find anywhere else. So if you get the Super Bundle, then we'll give you Prime Pro for free. The place to find it all is mindpumpmedia.com. So without any further ado, here we are talking to our buddy, Josh Trent. So I got a great story for you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:51 Josh, so Justin was actually hired by Adam a long time. He worked with Adam for a long time at 24Fitness. Great, great friends. Just meets me before we start mind pump and we had to do this game where he had to answer very honestly. It could give an honest answer. I love how you're setting the table right now. You couldn't lie.

Starting point is 00:04:08 What? We filmed it, it's on YouTube. And the question was, who is the best, who's the best sales person? And so Justin was in this dilemma. Like, Adam's like kind of my mentor early on. Like, you know, I don't want to, but Sal. I knew this moment would never-

Starting point is 00:04:25 But Sal's like, he's like the sales Jesus, like what do I do? Seals Jesus. But the thing about Justin- Not use his name and name. The thing about Justin's own benefit. Is Justin has so much integrity that he had to tell the truth.

Starting point is 00:04:36 And so he told everybody it was me. And to date, this is a long time, I was just months ago. You know what I'm trying to say? So what I try to tell him, Josh, is that I had to tell him what he need to hear Yeah, you know at that moment in time. Yeah, like so he looked like this lost puppy Yeah, so he threw me a bone. Yeah, sorry throw me

Starting point is 00:04:53 Yeah, so like I just I felt the need to give that one to him where and meanwhile challenge Adam to right get out of his comfort zone He was coasting right as the top leader. I feel like in the group. I feel like you just insulted Adam even more. No, no, I don't know. That's as good as I got guys. Stop coasting Adam. I was the sales projection. How was this scaled?

Starting point is 00:05:13 Was it like a 24 pack? Was it a membership? Oh, no, no, no, no. If we just go into metrics, now we don't want to do that because we're sure we don't. It's not just the trophies. Yeah, the best is, one of these days, I hope we all have an opportunity to go into a gym For sure we don't. It's not just like trophies. Yes. Investors. Okay. One of these days, I hope we all have an opportunity to go into a gym and maybe like those,

Starting point is 00:05:30 what's that show with the restaurant? Rescue. Bar Rescue. Bar Rescue. Bar Rescue. Rescue gym. Yeah, like I want to do Rescue gym. I want to do that for a gym where we walk into a gym and make it happen.

Starting point is 00:05:43 But then double their profits with two things. Yeah, but then it'll turn into a competition between me, Adam and Justin, because that's just what's gonna happen. Now, Josh, it'll be so violent, Ninja, it'll be so fun. You were there for quite some time, right? How many years were you there? 2005 to 2010.

Starting point is 00:06:00 Oh, so you put five years there, man. You were there for a good hot man. You were actually there longer than I was. We were there at the same time, so you know, years there, man. You were there for a good hot man. You were actually there longer than I was. We were there at the same time. So you know, it's just tripped. Right. It's almost certain that you and I have been to conventions at the same time before.

Starting point is 00:06:11 Probably. Cause I've been down to several LA conventions when Magic Johnson came out and spoke and did all that stuff down in LA area. I know I've been down there for a convention in San Diego before when we had the girl who, what's her name, the blonde, that's a softball pitcher.

Starting point is 00:06:26 Missy, someone. Missy Elliott? Missy Elliott? Oh, wait, she's not gonna be further from the blonde. Definitely not Missy Elliott. That couldn't be further from the blonde girl who drove the softball. You're a some indifference to India.

Starting point is 00:06:40 What's, no, didn't we have that one girl? Oh, see, that was before you guys might have started. What's her name? She was a Baywatch She was a friend for our Pam Landerson. She was not she was 25 our fitness is first big spost person. You didn't know this Where did you hear? Where did you hear that? She was 25 our fitness's spokesperson before I think it was before 2001? The tennis player Came into NASM like later and then 24 I guess he's I guess he yeah the I guess he sports yeah yeah yeah yeah now I guess he was a I guess he magic Johnson the super super

Starting point is 00:07:13 that was later on that was later on yeah no I know that was later on that's he's 2005 just that's why I'm dropping stuff like that that's not too I was there from 2001 all the way to 2010. So I was there for nine years and I was there and that's a lot of balloons that close out. That's a lot of balloons. Did you see how fast I would? So we had an event here.

Starting point is 00:07:35 But I could beat anybody at 100 balloons. Who could put 100 balloons up with that? We had an event here. Sounded it all by breath. And me and Adam were like, we'll do the balloons and it was like so weird. It was so reminiscent. Funny you brought that up.

Starting point is 00:07:48 We just did this event here, and we decided to put all these black and yellow balloons in here, and it was like riding a bike. I hadn't done that in so long, but we had this a certain way. There were little kids like, yeah. Souser, making weird animals with it. Yeah, it was pretty funny.

Starting point is 00:08:04 Yeah, it was cool. Tying those balloons up, but yeah, I'm sure you've done it. Yeah, I know. It was pretty funny. Yeah, it was cool. Tying those balloons up, but yeah, I'm sure you've done that. Oh, close out. Yeah, I don't remember having a balloon tying contest, but I just remember like, get as much sold as you can, including those boxes of cookies, right? So I definitely remember that. Not that much fun. Oh, the close to protein cookies.

Starting point is 00:08:19 Didn't we have those? Now in your area, do you're got do you remember guys that were Just stood out as far as in sales and so that do you reserve a guy down in Southern California that was known for sales Yeah, you know what? Kusha Carvondi who actually I think he had a podcast for a while and now he has extra scribes So they do like blood occlusion training and all this cool stuff Hmm, and I remember like he would always be like number three and I'd be five for the monthly reports.

Starting point is 00:08:47 And so one day we met each other, we both knew who we were. It was almost like Clint Eastwood like, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, I'm just trying to do this. You sold 12 grand last month. I've seen your name. Yeah, so.

Starting point is 00:08:57 But for me, it was more like, how do I transition out of this as quickly as possible once it started to get to that point? Because once it started to get to that point, I was like, I was done. Yeah. You know what I mean? I wanted something else. How long did you, because I stayed in for quite some time knowing that I was done.

Starting point is 00:09:10 I was probably there three more years after I knew I needed to leave, because I was comfortable. There's nothing worse than that, by the way. That just sucks when you're doing something. You know why it was hard for me to leave? It was hard for me to leave because, one, I was making good money. Two, I really loved fitness. I was very passionate about fitness. I loved people.

Starting point is 00:09:28 It was a fun environment. I had built an incredible team around me that I really didn't to be truthful. I didn't have to work very much. I came in the gym whenever I felt like it. I took two hour lunches. I went home, had something to eat, worked out on. You know, I literally had a kush job, but where the company was

Starting point is 00:09:43 going, I wasn't excited about. And I knew that I didn't have a but where the company was going, I wasn't excited about, and I knew that I didn't have a future in the company. And so I knew if I wanted to continue to progress, that I needed to move on, but it was a really hard thing. I was very comfortable. It was hard for me to leave and break free from that. And I stayed in that zone for about three years,

Starting point is 00:10:00 knowing, damn well, I should have moved on sooner, but then also, because I liked what I was doing, I was standing there, but I was such a growth minded person that eventually I couldn't handle it anymore. Eventually. Eventually. I got plucked out. I felt the same way you did for probably like two years, but then this other manager at the Wave House

Starting point is 00:10:16 athletic club, it's the, you know, has a roller coaster down my mission beach. So these two have a huge gym there. They used to have a huge gym there. And so he hit Mia because he had heard about me. And so he was like, why don't you come and establish a fitness department here. And so we literally cleaned out a closet.

Starting point is 00:10:29 Like we cleaned out a closet and like I started a team there. No shit. Yeah. So that was my transition from like 24 to actually like doing it in a real studio, real Jim environment that had nothing to do with corporations. Now what was that process like? Was it fucking hard? Yeah. It was successful. Did you work?

Starting point is 00:10:44 I look back on that time is so fond. I mean like the memories that I made there that was when I really understood what it was to be a trainer. Because the first 34 years like and I think we talked about this last time like I would love to get my money back to the first two years of clients because I was just like trying to wow the shit out of them. Okay, stand on the Vosu ball. Close your eyes. You see that? That's your core, I'm gonna help you with that. You're dynamically proprioceptive right now. You'll that.

Starting point is 00:11:09 Oh, it was a bad word. I look at my first few years as a trainer, as I was experimenting on a bunch of clients and learning. I actually, no joke, this is true now. I read Arthur Jones, you guys know what Arthur Jones is? So he was an inventor of Nautilus equipment and he had done the Colorado Experiment with KC Viator

Starting point is 00:11:29 and it talked about all you needed to do to signal muscle growth was to go to absolute failure one set and that was it. So the whole protocol, like Mike Mentors, Heavy Duty and all these different workouts were based on that particular philosophy of you just go to absolute failure one set and then you're done for that body part and then move to the next one So I had this client that I David was his name. I won't say his last name and

Starting point is 00:11:52 This little Japanese dude super nice guy and he wanted to build muscle and so our training sessions were 12 minutes He'd come in and we'd go to fucking failure like hard on like two or three body parts And it sent him off on his way. And if you're listening right now, dude, yeah. I owe you a refund. I know I'm sorry about that. How bad ass of a session was that for him? A 12 minute session where he got to that point.

Starting point is 00:12:13 He powered out. Yeah. You never told that story before. He progressed for a grand total of three weeks. And then nothing. And we just, I mean, I just bedridden. Dude, I put him on the hack squat because I was like, oh, this is the way to do it. Like, I mean, I could just bed ridden after that. Dude, I put him, I put him on the hack squat because I was like, oh, this is the way to do it.

Starting point is 00:12:27 Like, I'm, this is groundbreaking. And I put him on like a hack squat and I'd load it up with like five pound weights so that I could strip one off every time he hit failure. And this poor dude, I mean, I'm surprised he didn't, he'd get into rabdo, I'm surprised he didn't die. Like, like, like, you go to failure, you'd be like, ah, and take another one off,

Starting point is 00:12:42 keep going, ah, you can't do it. Oh, dude, you know, he's bleeding, it was crazy crazy. Oh my god. Yeah, but anyway, it's intense Yeah, there you go. So that's my confedient bad trainer That's my confession as a trader You man is money. So you got to step me through Josh you actually so when you interview you you typically do your homework on your guest And you you prepare like questions What is that process like because it's something that we're terrible at, we don't know how to do that.

Starting point is 00:13:08 Yeah, what's your name again? Justin and I, we try to do that, so I'll just keep fucking it up all the time. What does that look like? Do you actually like, print it all out? I mean, what do you do that? Yeah, man, I think interviewing in person is a whole different dynamic.

Starting point is 00:13:24 So when I do it, I bring an iPad. And I actually got, I was watching Louis Howe's when he first started like 2011, 2012. And I was like, that's such a great idea. I just have an iPad with questions and just scroll. So that's what I do. I pick 10 really good questions. And I mean like questions that I've done my homework on.

Starting point is 00:13:39 Like I look back and I see what did their mom's relationship mean to what they do now. Oh, cool. You know, I'm saying like connecting the emotional dots as to why mom's relationship mean to what they do now. Oh cool. You know what I'm saying, like connecting the emotional dots as to why the hell they get into whatever they're into. Now that's gonna take some digging. Yeah it does.

Starting point is 00:13:51 It does. And I also, I'll say it depends on the guests. I'm not gonna name names. Like sometimes if I just know someone and I know their work, I probably won't prep for that hard. Right, I'll do like a two hour prep. But somebody that I like really respect and I've never met them and I've like been following their work,

Starting point is 00:14:05 that could be a day. That could be like a day. Oh shit. Wow. What did you find out about Justin? He's a really romantic guy. Yeah. But he's also a warrior.

Starting point is 00:14:16 So he's like half heart, half sword. Wow. He got all that. That's a great compliment. It could be more wrong. Most. But I don't know myself. That's a great compliment. It could be more wrong. Most people. Dude, you just don't know me, Sal. Sal, all these years, you haven't figured that out.

Starting point is 00:14:31 I think people have- I'm sure I've understood his homework. I think people are hungry for both, though. I think people love, like what you guys do so well is you just draw it what's naturally there. And I think some people also like the research aspect where it's like, well, you might miss that in this kind of an environment.

Starting point is 00:14:44 Not to knock this environment, because this environment feeds people too. But I think there is something to be said about that, right? Well, there definitely is. There's been many times where I've interviewed someone. Interview went great, right? And I loved it, people loved it, great feedback from it. But then there was a question that I knew I wanted to get to

Starting point is 00:15:00 and I never fucking did. And I'm like, God, that would have been like that after every podcast. Yeah, so I definitely can appreciate that side of the prep where you're looking for these questions that you wanna make sure you get out because there's been more than a handful of times that's happened to us where, yeah, it was a great interview,

Starting point is 00:15:15 yeah, lots of people enjoyed it, loved it, yeah, they had a great experience, but there was this, that person is the person I wanna hear talk about this one thing and I didn't give them that chance to do that. God damn it. I think you just got to know your strength. That's not necessarily our strength.

Starting point is 00:15:30 Our strength is conversational. And so we kind of played that a little bit and was playing that zone. We're comfortable with it. We feel we're at our best at it. But the other thing you want to consider with podcasting, a lot of times when guests are on podcasts, it's because they've written a book or because they're talking about some researcher and they tend to do the circuit, right? They tend to go from podcasts to podcasts. Yeah. And everybody answers the same or asks the same questions. It's the same interview each podcast. And I don't know about you, but I hate that when I see someone that I really respect. I'm like, oh shit, this person's getting interviewed. I can't wait to listen. And I listen to, and I'm like, fuck, that's everything. I've always heard them talk about this.

Starting point is 00:16:06 I'd like to hear this as such a great point, because I actually listen to shows, and I pick out questions that I don't hear on purpose, because I wanna hear some new shit. And if they send me questions, have your heads up here, our person send you questions. Would you ask our guests these questions? Yeah, of course.

Starting point is 00:16:20 No, I won't. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm gonna read your book, I'm gonna highlight parts that I think you were really vulnerable in. This is what people are hungry for, man. People want the truth. And they want it as much as possible,

Starting point is 00:16:31 because our world is filled with lies. Right. So, and more so than ever now, it's good. With what we can do with Photoshop now and all this social media, get an app now that can beautify the fuck out of you in five minutes. You can be ugly as shit, five minutes later. You know what that is, hell.

Starting point is 00:16:44 You know what they have now? So I just read a news article the other day where they have, there's a couple of developers that are demonstrating that you can use CGI based off of someone's picture and make a video of that person look real and make them say what you want. So they did this with Trump and Obama,

Starting point is 00:17:04 where they took them, and it looks like it's really them, and they're saying shit, and it looks like they're talking. I haven't had that the whole time. That's exactly what I'm thinking. All right. Dude, think about this way.

Starting point is 00:17:14 The owners heads just like, right, meanwhile, they're off on some island golfing together. Well, do you have virtual means got this? Imagine if you piss off the wrong people, and next thing you know, there's a video of you on camera talking about how you like to do some horrible shit. Like I didn't fucking say that, but that's what it looks like. Wow.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Crazy, right? You just uncovered a part of the onion that I don't think anybody's ever smelled. Right, that part? I don't know. I never even thought of that being a reality. But now with technology, that's a reality. Well, and think how hard that will be to police that.

Starting point is 00:17:42 Like how do you control that as fast as things go viral? I can't do police that. No, I don't think you can because that's, I mean, if somebody leaked a video of, that looks spot on a Donald Trump, sounds exactly like Donald Trump and you got him saying something like off the wall, even crazier than anything he's already said before, how quick when you drop that on to me, that's why he went so crazy. You drop that on Facebook, right? And it all said it goes to million people. Well, not only that, but how do you defend that? If that's you, that's on TV went so crazy. You dropped that on Facebook. Right? And it all said it goes to million people.

Starting point is 00:18:05 Not only that, but how do you defend that? If that's you that's on TV saying that stuff, you're gonna come out and say, what? That's not me, it's a fake video. That sounds like bullshit. Like nobody's gonna believe that. And the people who have the capability of doing that, well, it's been released now,

Starting point is 00:18:19 but I guarantee you that that's existed for a little while. Okay, well, it's gonna have to be my order, report style, it's gonna have to be thumbprint or, you know, retin' on the eye. Maybe to authenticate the video. Maybe, but even that, I think you can fuck with. Crazy what I'm saying, for sure. Isn't it funny with, I don't know. I know, it's like, what do you do?

Starting point is 00:18:34 It's funny when movies put stuff like that together, right? When you first watch, it's like, this is so crazy. Then as time goes by, you're like, oh shit, maybe this could happen. What if there was pre-cog for you getting fat? Like, you could see a year down the road and be like, okay, I'm gonna adjust it now. And it was pre-cog.

Starting point is 00:18:46 I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. Once I meet someone, hang out with them for a second. I already know, like, you're gonna be fat. Yeah, I know right away, you're gonna be fat. Wow. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:56 It's pretty easy to predict. You have a jet. It's gonna be hot as well. You can like fly in and see. It's one of his carnival tricks. Yeah, you're fat. And I tell them that too. Like, 10 years is too fat, but you're gonna be fat.

Starting point is 00:19:06 I don't actually do that. But yeah, it's very fascinating and very scary. You know, the world that we live in, it's really a world, it's always been that way. Deceit's always been around. I think it's just gonna get much... Sal is like my yang, is that the darker side? Because we were just talking all the positive benefits of technology,

Starting point is 00:19:22 and then you, you know, take that out. But we're early in the game as far of technology and then you, you know, take that out. But we're early in the game as far as health and fitness tech. Yeah. I think like from a morality place, fuck, hasn't the media always been controlled with either a good intention or a bad one? Totally. I mean, 100%.

Starting point is 00:19:35 I mean, 100%. Look up Operation Mockingbird. That's a real CIA, you know, planned it, infiltrate the media to use the media to get people to persuade them to vote particular ways or act particular ways. These are real things. So it's definitely, and it sucks when you go down this rabbit hole because then you don't trust anything. And you become the sweet little flat earth. Then you start wearing a tomb foil hat and all that stuff. But technology represents, I mean, tech has been around since mankind has been able to put,

Starting point is 00:20:06 you know, two rocks together to develop something. It's always been technology. It's power, and power can be used however you want, whether that's good or bad. I know you're always been that bad old. You're a big tech. Have you read the book, Irresistible yet? No, but on your list. But I have read Inevitable by Kevin Kelly, which is the 12 forces that are going to power technology. That's on the list as well. But I love it, man. You have great book recommendations. Oh, yeah. I know you'll enjoy it.

Starting point is 00:20:28 Knowing what you're into, I think you'll think that's a pretty cool book and challenge you going on. Yeah, well, just to think and it's open my own eyes about like, so there's a test in there they tell you to do too. It's just, and there's an app. I got to all look it up for the show notes, but that you that tracks how many times you pick your phone up and then how many times you're surfing.

Starting point is 00:20:47 And that's not including phone calls or any of that. So it's like Facebook, Instagram, you know, email stuff, surfing the web, and then track like, how many minutes a day do you think we spend actually doing that? And it's pretty fucking crazy. I would think the data would be scary as shit. It is scary. Because I'll raise my hand and admit, I check my phone all the time,

Starting point is 00:21:09 and says something like, I can't just stand in line and breathe, right? But then sometimes I can, and I'm like, well, what's the division between that? Is it my mindfulness? Okay, well, how do I grow my mindfulness? And I know how to do all these things, but I believe that if we put something on the phone

Starting point is 00:21:21 or tech that would remind us to just be with ourselves, like almost like a block where we give a password to a friend or, I don't know, some service would pay for us to not access the device. That might be powerful too for mindfulness. Well, I think that's, I think the, the, like apps like this, you're going to see more and more of this coming where people are going to realize that it is getting out of control. And you don't even realize it like, and, and I love talking to guys that are our age because I feel

Starting point is 00:21:45 like we've had the we were before and after. They would they call us the it's not the ex generation or whatever they say that we we we we grew up analog and now we live digital or we were born analog group digital so we had both we were able to experience both worlds. I think millennial is the most over fucking use term. Yeah. Like what does that even mean anymore? I'm 1980 so essentially I'm like one foot millennial,

Starting point is 00:22:06 one foot not. No, you're not. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, you're 80, if you're low 80s or 70s, you're definitely considered Generation X. No, no, it's after Generation X. It's in between Generation X and the one afterwards, which I can't, I think it's Generation Y. No, why is the youngest right now? Why is the youngest and you have?

Starting point is 00:22:34 So it goes X us, which we were in between Millennial and then Y, is that what you're saying? Yeah, okay. But yeah, we grew up without any of that stuff. It's what's most fascinating about it is when you look at the quickness by which technology got adapted or adopted by the world. And what I mean by it is internet, social media,

Starting point is 00:22:56 cell phones, and that kind of 24 hour connectiveness. It went from none to everyone so fast. Facebook just hit two billion users the other day. That's almost the third of the world population on Facebook, that's one social media platform. So in the book, they get into what is scary about this is that we only have about 10 years of tracking. We don't know what the long-term effects are this. And they do a lot of

Starting point is 00:23:25 crazy comparisons to drug addiction. The way that you get this endorphin rush when you get a like or a new person who adds to you or somebody talks about you or tags you, we get the every time you open that and you see that on Facebook or on Instagram, you get this release and this rush. And they were engineered. So these tools, these apps were engineered to do that, to get you addicted to it. And we are definitely seeing that we are, and when I really, if I have some real true perspective and detach myself from the day to day and then think about, okay, what was I doing 10 years ago compared to now in this tool that I now have in my pocket

Starting point is 00:24:07 that I'm always attached to, I didn't even have that 10 years ago and I had to, my life was fine, you know, and I'm not somebody who's anti-technology because I love tech and I love where we're going, but I am also need to be aware of the dangers of it. Just like, I'm also somebody who's pro drugs too. I'm like, so I think that, pro drugs. No, I am.

Starting point is 00:24:24 I don't think, I think that. Pro drugs? No, I am. I don't think. Everybody do drugs. I think that I think it's silly how we have the dare program when we were younger and you were scared of death. I know. I think there should be more education around drugs, just like there should be more education around this. And that's, it's more like this, okay, listen, there's lots of cool things about this

Starting point is 00:24:41 and you can have a great time with this and it's awesome. And there's lots of benefits, but then it you can have a great time with this and it's awesome And there's lots of benefits But then it also can become very addicting because of that and then be become aware of that So the book dives into it and it draws a lot of parallels to to what we what we know about the the behavior addiction with drugs and what There's seeing with people being addicted to these apps and games and all this stuff that we are now staring into a screen all day long. Just imagining like a guy in a trench coat, you know, you want your cell phone back

Starting point is 00:25:11 and you want some drugs. I saw a commercial like that. Really? Where it was like a montage of what would happen if like all the apps went away and there was like a black market for you using your phone. Of course.

Starting point is 00:25:20 For like a drug hit. Yeah. Because look at the biology of our limbic brain. It thrives off of novelty. You get like panic. Right. So with our limbic brain. It thrives off of novelty. You get like panic. Right. So the limbic brain, we are old software and this is brand-fucking new.

Starting point is 00:25:30 Right. So that's the reality of where we're at. And novelty does what, right? Bright colors and these. Novelty stimulates dopamine. Of course. That's what gets drives us to seek more of it out and to get more and more novelty.

Starting point is 00:25:41 What is one of the hallmarks of anxiety? Dopamine minus serotonin, minus oxytocin, it's just dopamine. Just constant levels of dopamine is connected to higher rates of anxiety. And the fastest growing, and now I believe the number one diagnosed disorder among people is anxiety.

Starting point is 00:26:01 It's never been that way before, but anxiety is, it's this epidemic that no one's talking about right now. And I think I'm talking about it. Are you? Hell yeah. I think it's 100% connected to the fact that we are never alone like we used to be.

Starting point is 00:26:15 Like it's always something, even in a work, you leave work, your email, your phone, your social media, your talking to people, your constantly turned on all the time, and we don't have that. There's no balance, and so we developed these anxious disorders, and I think the future of health is gonna rest on being able to manage a lot of that,

Starting point is 00:26:35 and also manage the psyche that goes along with that, and then things tend to fall in place. So this is so powerful. Yeah, such a powerful topic. It, well, you know, it's funny. They, I actually talked about this on a previous podcast where I speculated I made a comment like, you know, I would love to see a group of people who are told to have a mindfulness practice whether that's meditation or, you know, whatever.

Starting point is 00:26:59 And another group who is given a diet and then a control group. And I'd be interested to see who actually succeeds in terms of health and fat loss and stuff like that. There actually was a study that they did that with and the mindfulness group had better fasting glucose and better results in terms of nutrition because they were able to kind of dive into the root of the problem.

Starting point is 00:27:21 Because I think we think the root of the problem to poor health is the actions that we take. So like, why do I, why am I obese? Why am I, why do, why does someone have heart disease? Why is someone, they're eating horribly and they're not moving. Yes, those are definitely causing those issues, but what is the root behind the eating poorly,

Starting point is 00:27:39 the root behind lack of activity? That's the thing that no one's looking at, and that's probably why we're failing miserably at addressing those issues. Man, this is why it's thought, then feeling, then action, either healthy or unhealthy. But it's the thought, and then below, that's the belief, right? So it's like, hey, what is our society enforcing

Starting point is 00:27:56 as far as a belief? What do people believe right now? Do people believe that things are possible or not? And that's the narrative that this social media feeds all the time. This is what's going on. This is people that are dying. This. And that's the narrative that this social media feeds all the time. This is what's going on. This is people that are dying. This is people that are being assaulted.

Starting point is 00:28:09 This is what you should be scared of. Don't eat coconut oil. Look at this fire. Look what's going on in Tasmania. Ah, it's like constantly, right? So that's sparking that belief constantly. Are you familiar with the author at Cartole? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:23 Okay, so I'm reading one of my voice just got deep, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I like reading that sometimes. Yeah, I like that. So I'm reading his book right now, a new earth, and he talks about pain body. And this is a form of your ego that thrives off of pain and drama and issues, problems, causing problems.

Starting point is 00:28:43 And the collective pain body is when you have the, like the country of America has pain bodies, dealing with the issues of slavery and some of the stuff that we've done in our past and other countries have their own pain bodies. But he talks about how our pain body, all of the forms of our ego, seeks out food. It needs to be fed in order to live.

Starting point is 00:29:03 And our pain body loves drama, it loves bad news, it loves hearing bad shit. And if you watch the news, it's 99% bad shit, 1% good stuff. And remember, we're the drivers of media. So if we consume, what we consume is what they'll produce. And when we get angry at the media for feeding that shit, it's on us. We're the ones that are consuming it. And it's all of us that are just, we thrive on all of this bad energy all the time. It's this collective insanity. And it sucks you in.

Starting point is 00:29:31 How addicting is this? Gay Hendrix talks about this. We can become addicted to these stories, like constantly, right? And they just feed our whole life path. And then, of course, that's reinforced by the media. So now what? What you guys are doing and what good podcasts are doing, great podcasts are doing, he's talking about a new narrative of what's possible,

Starting point is 00:29:48 instead of what's dramatic. Right. Like, can we get addicted to like positive news network? Right. Is that possible? I think it is. I believe, I believe we will have that way. And I believe, but unfortunately, like what it takes for us as a society,

Starting point is 00:30:01 I feel like we have to kind of hit rock bottom for. So I think where we're heading with tech addiction is we still got a ways to go before we start seeing some really bad shit and we have enough data for the over 10, 15, 20 years, we go, oh shit, this is fucking some lives up right here. Maybe we should do this, maybe we should do this and then the pendulum will start to swing back the other way and then you'll see companies like I like to believe that we're ahead of the curve with stuff like that. We are planning for the future.

Starting point is 00:30:28 With where mind pump is our message, we knew it wasn't sexy, we knew that we weren't gonna compete with some of the companies right now with the way they market themselves. Like we can't do that, like cause it's a total different message. So that's one of the greatest challenges

Starting point is 00:30:43 that we're in right now is, you know, how do we continue to scale this business knowing that we're not ready yet? I know we're, I mean, I think we're ready because I know this message needs to get out, but are we really, though, as a whole? When you look at the end, I mean, we talk to, the collective is the collective ready.

Starting point is 00:30:59 Right. Yeah, I think they are on a subconscious level. Yeah. I think we all are. Don't we all know when we just like someone, existential energy? We just know, like, I like that person. That person's truthful.

Starting point is 00:31:09 And then we know when someone's full of shit. So I think there are people that know what you're saying is true and they want it, but there's a fear and narrative right now that says, oh, that's not possible. And so good outlets like yours, like this is why it's such a big deal. And I think this is why also podcast is growing. People are hungry for this, right? And they wanna get it everywhere they go.

Starting point is 00:31:26 But you know, but they don't know. They just find themselves drawn to it, but they're not quite sure why, which I find very fascinating. I'll tell you what, having kids is, it's a blessing in many different ways, but one of the ways it's a blessing is, it's so hard to be objective about yourself.

Starting point is 00:31:44 Like it's very difficult for me to observe what happens to me when I'm too connected to social media, when I'm too addicted to it, when I'm on my phone all the time, when I'm not connecting to other people. It's very hard to do it to be objective about that, right? It's very easy for me to observe my kids. Very easy for me to see what happens. I'll tell you what, I have two young kids and I can clearly see it change in their personality and behavior when they're on their iPads or on their phones or watching YouTube or whatever for longer than like 40 minutes. It is clear as day. I'll

Starting point is 00:32:15 take them on a vacation somewhere, we'll have no electronics and they're different children within two or three days. But there's a withdrawal period that they go through. Well, we have the same thing with TV and, you know, like there's been a history of like new novel things that like kids get like super sucked into and that's totally something that we are gonna, it's gonna be a challenge going forward with like removing that and cause they're gonna get in school.

Starting point is 00:32:40 You know, there's no more paper. Everything is on the iPad, everything is on the phone. So it's like to not address it and and and pull it away from them. It's great I think like my battle with that is to you know, keep it out of there It's it's not a necessity that they need right now You know as long as possible if they don't need it if it's not something that they're using it school yet You know, let's let's try and get you to play and be a normal kid and get outside and be active. Here's a, here's a high thought for you. What if, what if, what if, what if we're wrong?

Starting point is 00:33:14 And that's actually the natural progression and evolution of how, how the, how the future us is supposed to be. And we're, those of us that are trying to be disconnected are the old barnacles and those, those that are on are trying to be disconnected are the old barnacles and those those that are on the the forward thinkers are like why we need to be more connected because I can multitask and do all these other things and become more of like one and maybe maybe we're maybe we're resisting it maybe we're the rebellion and we shouldn't be maybe we're supposed to be getting more connected and sucked in. I think we're about that for a minute.

Starting point is 00:33:47 I think we're the scary thought though. Right, think about it for a minute. Like even if that's true, I don't want that to be true. It goes through the high line. Because I know what would happen to our morality and to our quality of life, man, it would have rode like a cliff. Like how fun would life be if everything was connected to everything else and there was never any separation.

Starting point is 00:34:03 You say that, but you guys see the new movie that's coming out with Steven Spielberg? No. Player one. I saw that. Oh, I saw that. I saw it. I don't know how much I could have. Think of the, the, the, the, and you see it and the, just the preview made my wheels like

Starting point is 00:34:15 start spinning like that's the, that's the future. That's what you said. It's the evolution that we're resisting. It's the inevitable evolution. So this is what, this is what sparked this conversation for me was that I just saw that preview and I thought fuck man What if it is like that and they make it sound so cool because? The the virtual reality world we can do things that we can't do here

Starting point is 00:34:32 We could take risks with our lives Inside this connected world and it's so real funny to tear it because of where science is you feel like it's real But the beauty of it is we you and I and I, can be race car racing Lamborghinis on sides of cliffs and you push me off and then it just blows up and then I wake back up but I felt like the experience like I was really there doing that. Talk about a fucking rush.

Starting point is 00:34:53 Well now we're going down and it's ultimately wormhole. Here we go. Because, because what is really consciousness, right? You're my consciousness. And in a big way, mind-pump, well as far as it's consciousness rising up. So is consciousness present when you're in that simulation where you're driving and crashing?

Starting point is 00:35:09 I think it's still present. I think consciousness is always present. I think if we take it to the next level, what's the ultimate progression of that? Let's say that they do come out with technology that lets you plug in and experience games and you're playing things and you're living these things out. And then you can unplug and then what's the next

Starting point is 00:35:26 Progression of that when you that gets boring when that gets when you get sick and tired of that when you want the next thrill The next progression the next natural progression is to plug in and forget that you're plugged in to actually think you're in real life Which would which would resemble which would resemble what we're in right now which would resemble, which would resemble, which is what we're in right now, but the simulation theory. Well, which would resemble, we have thought to be or thought of what the, and tried to fathom or put together in our minds, right?

Starting point is 00:35:51 What heaven would be like? This fantasy of every day, I could do whatever I wanted to whatever level to whatever stream with no fear, right? Like is that the most ultimate piece? And are we evolving in that direction? And are we just fighting it? Dude, isn't that what we're all trying to do? So digital.

Starting point is 00:36:08 Aren't we all trying to operate every single day from just a place of love? Like you're saying? So we're all doing our very best to make this heaven on earth. Some people are really fucking good at it. Yeah, great. Some people not so good. So how do we become more good?

Starting point is 00:36:21 How do we become great at it? I think one of the first things we need to do is become much more aware, and I stop identifying with our thoughts, or what we think, because that is, your thoughts can fool you. They can make you believe that you're anxious when you're not. They can make you feel worse when you don't feel bad.

Starting point is 00:36:41 You know, I had a conversation with a client the other day and she was telling me about how she had a real tough day the other day because she was really craving this cookie at a party and she'd want to eat it. And she stressed over it. So why are you stressing over? She said, look, because I wanted it, but I couldn't have it.

Starting point is 00:36:58 And I said, well, you can have it if you want to. And she's like, well, what do you mean? I said, if you want, you can have it. You chose not to have the cookie. The creation that in your mind, the illusion that you can't have is what's giving you that problem. What's giving that stress? Then we went a step further and she said, well, I have this craving. I said, well, what's a craving? How is it different from hunger? And she tried to explain it to me. And I said, what's

Starting point is 00:37:18 wrong with feeling a craving? And why are you running from that? It's really about awareness. I'm using a simple example and fitness because that's what we work in. But I think when we can start understanding that we are the observer behind the thoughts, then a lot of our issues will go away. But once we become our thoughts and we become what we think and who we think we are, that's when we get a lot of these problems.

Starting point is 00:37:39 Because really if you look around at the problems that plague mankind, hey, let's take, let's make it simple. Because we're all in the fitness realm, let's talk about fitness and health, okay? You're obese, you know what you need to do? Why aren't you doing it? It's very simple, right?

Starting point is 00:37:54 But it's not easy, why is that? Because we are not understanding that we're the observer behind those thoughts, we're identifying with these thoughts. And you can have all the information in the world telling you how you should eat and what you should do but if you don't understand that you're the observer behind those thoughts it ain't gonna happen it ain't gonna work for it's gonna be very short term and so I think that and obviously we're

Starting point is 00:38:13 taught very esoteric with my speak now but I think until humans can get to that point it's always gonna be a problem we're gonna kill each other over you know artificial you know fake lines in the sand and we're gonna fight over resources when we have plenty. We're gonna do a bunch of crazy shit that doesn't make any sense. Could you imagine alien species coming down and analyzing mankind?

Starting point is 00:38:33 They'd be like, why do these women have salt bags attached to their chest? Yes, come on. They dig us up. This woman had them on the backside of her pelvis. What's that all about, right? They would look at us in the ear. They'd look at us and be like,

Starting point is 00:38:46 wow, they're suffering from collective insanity. Yeah. They did not realize that they could all just be cool. There's levels to this, though. I think there's a lot of levels to this and a lot of layers. It's not, I don't think, I mean, when Sal says that he says it so eloquently, right? And it rolls off so nice.

Starting point is 00:39:01 And it's like, yeah, I've just fucking asked yourself why. Yeah, I'm saying. But what I have found is, you know, you gotta get through those layers and just keep asking yourself why. And that's for everything, right? Why do I want to look this way? Why do I want to feel this way?

Starting point is 00:39:16 What is it? Why, why, why, why? And eventually you'll start to get it to the root of it, right? Because it's not what you think it is. Most people think it's like, oh, because I have this wedding in six months. Like, that's why you want to get it to the root of it, right? Because it's not what you think it is. Most people think it's like, oh, because I have this wedding in six months. Like, that's why you want to get in shape. No, think, why do you care about the way you look?

Starting point is 00:39:32 Go into that wedding. Well, look at all like these motivational speakers, like your Tony Robbins and like, how quickly they can cut into a lot of people's like issues where they just, you say something and then he just asks you why. Who's loved that you want more and then he just asks you why. Who's loved that you want more, your mom's your dad's, and people just get paralyzed.

Starting point is 00:39:48 Yeah, and then it keeps going and going and going and then these people just, they can find that thing that is driving their, all of their thoughts and their focus. And normally we find out that the motives are unhealthy. When we really dig deep and we find out why I want to look or feel this certain way, normally the motives are not right. And that's where you need to get where you need to do the work. It's not so much the exercise or the eating piece. It's the relationship with yourself. And so we talk about this all the time that it's working on the relationship with yourself, then working on the relationship with food,

Starting point is 00:40:21 and then you work on the relationship with exercise. In that order, you have to first work on your relationship with yourself. How do you view yourself and why do you view yourself that way? Then you work your way over to food because I think that's the other thing. People look at food and they go, oh, I can't have this. Like, Sal was saying, that's going to make me fat. No, cookies don't make people fat. That's not how that works. But why do you identify with cookies make you fat like that's not how that works. But why do you, why do you identify with cookies make you fat like that? Why is that? You know, and diving into that to get them to help start to look at their relation with food. When you start to connect those dots, then you can start connecting the dots of how you feel when you eat certain ways, right? So when you, when I eat really healthy,

Starting point is 00:40:59 it's amazing. I sleep better. I have more energy. My skin is better, I'm in a better mood, I feel stronger in the gym, but you can't do that until you break through these layers, right? So that's, we talk a lot about this on the show, but a lot of people I think are on the first layer, and you gotta kinda get through each one before you get to this point where eventually we're intuitive eating, right? And we're intuitive training.

Starting point is 00:41:20 You're doing what's best for your body because you want to do what's best for a job vessel, right? Along those lines of being intuitive with your food, you know, this kind of dawn on me a while ago and since then it's now being confirmed by other professionals in the fitness sphere who I respect greatly. And a long time ago, I examined the advice to drink tons of water from the fitness industry. We love to tell people, drink tons of water all the time. That's the drink, and it's the blanket general state.

Starting point is 00:41:50 Really what the advice supposed to come from was don't drink anything but water, but then it turned into drink lots of water and somehow that's magic. And people would ask me how much water I should drink and I dived into it and I realized that your body's thirst signals when they're accurate, when you know how to read them are very accurate. They're very, very, they will tell you when you

Starting point is 00:42:09 need water. This is true for hunger and this is true for cravings for the types of food you should eat. And so when you throw everything off by ignoring signals, by being in an environment that's you know tons of electronic light all the time, so you don't understand the circadian rhythm is off. By being constantly in this low moderate levels of stress. By not paying attention to signals that your body's telling you and considering them normal. Like, I'm always bloated, I always have gas, I always have heartburn. My skin issues are just the way I am as genetic.

Starting point is 00:42:43 By the way, genetics is one of the worst things, best than worst things we've ever discovered. It's great because we've learned so much about ourselves and it's horrible because it's given people a wonderful excuse for everything, right? It depends on how you look at it. It depends on how you, there's always a duality, man. Always, right.

Starting point is 00:42:58 So you look at genetics and it's a science that can transform health through knowledge, but then also people can use it as an excuse to be just like their parents. That's right, well, what do you choose? Well, I just got a message literally an hour ago from someone on Instagram who she just listened to episode, I think 568 where I talk about how the connection

Starting point is 00:43:15 between diet and acne and how I said, you'll be hard pressed to find a dermatologist that will tell you that your food intake has anything to do with acne or skin issues. Most of them will say, no, there's no connection whatsoever. This lady had had eximas since she was 10 years old. And every single dermatologist and doctor she'd been to had said, food has nothing to do with it.

Starting point is 00:43:34 Here's the steroid creams, here's these pills, and that's all you can do. She listened to our episode, did some things with her diets. For her ketogenic diet was the thing that worked. She went ketogenic, exema gone for the first time since she was 10 years old and her entire life. And again, these are signals that were not, were ignoring, but not purposefully because we never learned how to read them. I know where. We've never learned how to read them in the first place. Once you understand and learn how to read them, the reason why intuitive eating is so easy is because then you

Starting point is 00:44:05 can just listen to your body and your body evolved these systems to prevent you because I think a lot of us are in the, we have the misconception that these signals of our body is to drive us to eat as much food as possible, which is false. This is false because eat too much at one sitting and you get sick, you mess up your gut, and if you eat too much, you also get sick over a period of time. We know this, we see it all the time. These are signals that we evolved with, and these signals of our body will tell us

Starting point is 00:44:32 when we're eating too little, when we're eating too much, what we need to eat and when we need to eat, when we need to eat. That's how, that's literally how accurate your body can be if it's in balance, because it's at a balance, and these signals are all over the fucking place, you can be as conscious as you want about what you need to eat when all, okay, my first meal is this and this is my macros and you're ain't going to win. You're going to be fighting signals that are telling you to do differently and they're

Starting point is 00:44:55 all whacked and you're, you can't read them, you don't know what's going on. People will get cravings for, look, if you have a nutrient deficiency, may, give yourself a magnesium or calcium deficiency and watch what you crave. It'll be interesting. You'll crave flavors that correlate to calcium and magnesium. You might not get them because now those flavors correlate to other things.

Starting point is 00:45:14 Like, for example, sweet doesn't necessarily mean vitamin C anymore, but it used to. It used to mean vitamin C. It used to mean that there's nutrients in this food that's sweet and so, and I know when I'm craving these types of things, but it doesn't happen anymore. It's all over the place. And our body doesn't know how to read, have to signal that there's nutrients in this food that's sweet and so and I know when I'm craving these types of things, but it doesn't happen anymore. It's all over the place and our body doesn't know how to read, have to signal that we send it. I can eat a food that's got a mixture of salty, sweet, and fat

Starting point is 00:45:34 and this hyper-palatable food that never would have existed in nature. Chocolate covered pretzels. Exactly. Exactly. So, right? Interfat kettle-air. Hello. Yeah, so then the reset becomes how do we emotionally and physically reset ourselves? Exactly. So, right? Interfat, Keteler. Hello. Yeah. So then the reset becomes, how do we emotionally and physically reset ourselves?

Starting point is 00:45:48 You could do it through a passana, you could do it through a training program. Everyone needs a reset from time to time. Every human being. My advice is step one is fix your sleep. If you don't fix your sleep, you're going to have a tough time handling anything else. That's number one. Quality and quantity are both important and it starts with, you gotta treat your sleep

Starting point is 00:46:09 like you would treat anything else in your life that's extremely important. You treat it with, you prepare for it. You have a routine, you treat it with respect, you don't just crash. A lot of people also confuse sleeping hard with sleeping well. Sometimes you sleep hard

Starting point is 00:46:22 because you're so exhausted that you just pass out. I mean, I could give you an anesthesia that'll make you pass out, but you're not gonna wake up and have, be re-rested, same thing with sleeping pills. But in contrast, this is why people do so much hard sedatives because they just can't go to sleep otherwise.

Starting point is 00:46:37 Why do so many people pound beers to go to bed? It's because their life is just completely out of whack. Look, our body's giving us clues all the fucking time. So your body's gonna tell you, like, hey, you're exhausted today, or you're not having a good relationship today. So the only way it's gonna course correct is by you taking time out. And unfortunately, unless you're self-aware,

Starting point is 00:46:55 which you've talked a hell of a lot about, you're not gonna take the time out. And a lot of parents that might be listening are like, well, yeah, we can't take the time out, we have kids. I bet you, if you looked at your life and you were honest and took a real inventory, you could partition resources if it was meaningful enough for you to do so. Oh, well, you and I know this for sure. I know you guys know, because we've all been trainers. So we've all been combination of all this in here. We've been thousands, maybe

Starting point is 00:47:16 tens of thousands people that we've actually touched as far as lives. Always. Everybody that's ever sat in front of me and said, Adam, I don't have enough time to work out, I just, I can only got this much time, and once I showed them how to make it a part of their life, they all say the same thing out towards, oh my God, it's like I have more time in the day now. It's because you become more productive. When your body is healthy and you're taking care of it,

Starting point is 00:47:38 you want to move. You become so much more efficient, and it's crazy how much more efficient. It's not like a little bit, this is another thing too, we talk about this. How many people think that they feel good? Like their meter is so off because they don't know what great feels like.

Starting point is 00:47:54 Feeling good for them is them continuing to feel their body with shit, always being deprived of certain nutrients. Yeah, not exercising the body. They've gotten, they know how to feel good with their habits that they've been doing for 10 plus years. So in their mind, they've gotten, they know how to feel good with their habits that they've been doing for 10 plus years, so in their mind, they're good, but they've never felt great. And once you show them great and they feel great,

Starting point is 00:48:12 it's like, oh shit. What else people have been getting way more done? Most people are just numb. They're just, so there's a difference between not being dead and being alive. There's a very, very big difference. One is very active and one is just, I'm not dead. There's a lot of numbing going on with people,

Starting point is 00:48:28 a lot of numbing with medications, a lot of distracting because, and they don't know why. That's the thing too, if you ask them, is they don't know why, they don't know why they feel the way they do. I mean, let's be honest, we live in the most plentiful time in all of human history. We have solved the major stresses and killers

Starting point is 00:48:45 that we've dealt with. And yet, people are unhappy. That's crazy to me. You've got someone coming up, I talk to people who are miserable and depressed, who have 10 pairs of shoes and a closet for the clothes, and have never known what it's like to not have food for more than a week.

Starting point is 00:49:02 And they have a roof over the head, but why are they so unhappy? And they don't know why. And we need to help people figure that out. And I think that's part of becoming aware. In terms of finding the time for these things, I'll tell you what, if you were an investor with money, and I told you for every $5 you gave me,

Starting point is 00:49:18 I'd give you $10 back, how much of your money would you give me? All of it. Every time you give me five bucks, I'm giving you 10 bucks, you're getting me all your money because you're gonna make, okay, that's what being mindful and that's what exercise does for your life.

Starting point is 00:49:31 For every hour that you put into it, you will get two hours back. So for however much time you think you don't have, the reality is it will create more time for you in better productivity, better quality of life, more energy. I mean, the list goes on and on. Yeah, in fact, the most successful people in the world will attribute much of their success to being

Starting point is 00:49:51 good at those things, to being good, being mindful, to being good at being consistent with exercise. We're talking about Tony Robbins. That's one of the things he talks about, is his fitness regime. It's a very, very important part of his life. He has made that a life practice. That like feels good for him to do. He's become in love with the process. It's a goal-oriented approach. You have a goal, you have to get to the goal to be happy or you'd be happy along the way. Yeah, because he's happy along the way

Starting point is 00:50:15 is the only way, actually. Otherwise, you're just punishing yourself. Which, I mean, I just feel like a lot of people fall into that trap of, you know, you mentioned these people that have certain things, like cookies, this becomes something that's gonna make me fat. And I'm gonna punish myself for devouring this

Starting point is 00:50:33 and having that weak moment. And same thing with exercise where I'm looking at exercises away to rid myself of all these evil sins that I did throughout the day. Or it's just this weird mentality. We want to punish ourselves. We want to be hard on ourselves. And instead of really just charging ourselves up and working out in a way where it's really

Starting point is 00:50:56 just it's building this energy. It's building this extra movement throughout the day that is contagious. Like it makes me want to move more. Here's what we have to do. If we want to make a true impact on total health and wellness in Western societies or in the world, it has to become a part of the culture. If it doesn't become a part of the culture,

Starting point is 00:51:18 it's going to be very, very difficult. If you go to China and you wake up at six o'clock in the morning and you go out to the parks that are out there and this is in Communist China by the way Remarkable that the communists regime didn't eliminate this from people's life. You will see Thousands of people doing Tai Chi every single morning. It is a part of their culture many of them do it because it's part of the culture Not realizing you learn a lot from that. No, I got it in. I'm visualizing all the runners. What are the most common facial expressions of runners?

Starting point is 00:51:49 They're like grimacing. They're not loving running. It's like you said, man, it's like punishing themselves. So how do we make exercise fun and enjoyable? Everyone's got their own flavor. It's making that container open so they can step in. It's got to become a part of the culture to where, oh man, I just had a hard day of work. I can't wait to go do yoga instead of, I'm going to go get that crack open of beer or drink some water.

Starting point is 00:52:14 Well, I talk about this on the show all the time that the wrong people are doing the wrong things, right? So it's always the opposite. Because I do believe there's a place for beast mode. There's a place for intensity. There's a place for pushing yourself. You went through Mark for beast mode. There's a place for intensity. There's a place for pushing yourself. You went through Mark Devine's thing. There's a place for that. There's huge psychological benefits that you get from that. But it's funny. The people that gravitate towards those punishing type workouts and punishing themselves are the ones that are punishing themselves all day at work, super high stress, super hard

Starting point is 00:52:43 on themselves. And then they go to their workout that is reflecting the way they fucking live their life 24 or seven. Those people don't need, those need to be meditating. And then you've got the meditating guys, you've got the yoga guys, that all they do is yoga, yoga, smoke weed and chill, and they're never out of that state. It's like you need a little bit of fucking intensity. You need to be a little, you need a little beast mode

Starting point is 00:53:04 in your life. You get to go to 20X, right? Yeah, you need a little bit of fucking intensity, you need to be a little beast mode in your life. You get to go to 20X, right? Yeah, but down the green juice. Right, right. I'm sure you've just pulled up bar. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. We want to, it's something as humans we tend to do is we like

Starting point is 00:53:15 gravitate to these boxes. Everybody, we want to put ourselves in a box and a category. And it's like, you know, I identify with this group of people. And so I'm going to do these things and we're not into those things. And those aren't, this is against what we believe and in what we say. And this is the stuff that we do.

Starting point is 00:53:31 And you don't venture out of that. And it's crazy because yeah, there's lots of benefits that you may see for this running or this yoga or whatever it may be, but, you know, it's amazing how much the body needs these little stressors all the time. And good and bad ones, right? Sometimes it's amazing how much the body needs these little stressors all the time. And good and bad ones, right?

Starting point is 00:53:47 Sometimes it's completely meditating, floating like we did today. And then other times it's going to like a marked divine thing and stressing that, I think we get so comfortable in our boxes. You don't want to venture outside of them. Yeah, and especially in an immediate gratification society, the laid gratification is an art form. It's an art form that not a lot of people practice. And so how do we practice that?

Starting point is 00:54:08 You could do the 20X. You could also do a Vipassana. You could also be on a podcast. I mean, there's many ways to push your edge, right? So how do you guys push your edge right now? Like what's your biggest edge that you're working on in your life? Is it business?

Starting point is 00:54:21 I know for Justin, we talked about it, I was like meditation. For me, it's finding that balance. Like maybe when I heard you talk about the 20x, I am that guy that kind of punishes himself, right? I work my ass off, I go to the 20x, I was laughing as you're talking. It's so true, man.

Starting point is 00:54:35 Right, and so like meditation for me is also big. Yeah. But I'm curious about all three of you. Like what's the edge right now? For me right now, so for most of my life, I've not enjoyed Being in nature. I've never enjoyed Taking adventures where I don't know necessarily where I'm going and things aren't planned out I have a bad sense of direction. Always fear getting lost

Starting point is 00:54:58 I was never the guy that take my shoes and socks off out in the forest and feel the ground and my shoes and socks off out in the forest and feel the ground. And lately, that has been the focus of what I have been trying to work on. Because, and I'm going to be quite honest, the person that I started dating somebody and like what happens a lot of times when men fall in love with a girl, is they do shit they don't want to do because they like the girl. So she takes me on this road trip and we end up kayaking on Lake Tahoe and we're supposed to kayak to a camping ground and we got lost on Lake Tahoe in a kayak

Starting point is 00:55:31 with our camping gear and end up kayaking for something like eight or nine miles. And this is totally out of my comfort zone. Like I wouldn't be caught dead in the water on a kayak in the middle of a lake, let alone trying to find somewhere to go to then camp or whatever. And it was miserable for me, but afterwards I remember feeling something different.

Starting point is 00:55:50 I felt this sense of like, man, I could really do something like, you know, I could really do that. Like, this isn't that big of a deal. It was tough, but I did it. And then I noticed the, just the rejuvenating effects of being out in the lake and having nothing else but just me and other person in nature. And so now I've started seeking that out. Now I'll take my shoes and socks off and walk barefoot on a trail or I'll put my feet in a creek or I'll sit and just with no one around me and just listen and feel. I would have never done that a million, never done that a million

Starting point is 00:56:18 years. Why? Why? Ask me that. Yeah, 10 years ago. 10 years ago. It's my edge now because it is really taking me to the next level. And now there's a problem with that. And that is that? Yeah, 10 years ago. 10 years ago. It's my edge now because it is really taking me to the next level. And now there's a problem with that. And that is that I don't want to identify with it, making me better, because then I'm gonna do it like I treat other things in my life. Like I'm not gonna go out and be like,

Starting point is 00:56:36 I'm gonna go do nature real hard. I'm gonna go nature the fuck out of this. I'm gonna do nature the shit out of it. I'm just trying to observe, I'm trying to be aware of the benefits and just be in the moment. It really puts me in the moment. I went hiking the other day and we were at Castle Rock, which is a great spot up in

Starting point is 00:56:53 the Santa Cruz Mountains and there's a couple trails you can get real high and you can sit on the edge of like a cliff and you can see all the Santa Cruz Mountains. Now 10 years ago, I would have never, I wouldn't have stepped 10 feet away from a cliff off of it edge or whatever. I would have been too anxious, but actually sat on the edge of it, let my feet dangle off the edge of it, and I just closed my eyes for, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:57:17 probably 10, 15 minutes. And I'm getting things out of it that I'd never thought, that I never got from pretty much anything else. So right now, that's kind of the area that I'm getting things out of it that I'd never thought, that I never got from pretty much anything else. So right now that's kind of the area that I'm seeking and I think that's giving me an edge. It's giving me better ideas, it's helping me work more productively, not necessarily harder, but more productive.

Starting point is 00:57:38 And I feel more connected to my children. So it's been a huge boost to pretty much everything. I think we're all kind of similar with the Present message, I think and I think it's because of our business, right? Like this is this is my first business. I turned on My Instagram and my Facebook with the intention to build a business around it So I was not a social media guy. I didn't care to do that stuff. I've always been an active outdoor, nature sports.

Starting point is 00:58:10 I've always been that guy. I was always playing basketball or football or wakeboarding or snowboarding. I was into things like that and I never cared to sit on social media and I never cared about trying to get more friends on Facebook. None of that stuff mattered to me. I had my friends, but when I started this business,

Starting point is 00:58:29 I started it with the intention of, okay, we're gonna build this business around, at that time I didn't know what it was. It ended up pivoting over to these guys in my pump, but I did start my social media with the intent of turning it into this business because I had someone who I'd met at that time, who Taylor, who you actually just met, he has a pretty cool story on how we met and how this all happened.

Starting point is 00:58:50 And so I've watched myself over the last four years be consumed by the social media, by my phone, by the web. I was never into it like I am now. And of course, I have justified it because it's my business, my livelihood now. And so it's been really easy to do that. While I've been doing that, I've watched my relationships start to suffer. And it's starting to suffer from people that matter a lot to me. My girl who's been with me for over six years,

Starting point is 00:59:23 she's been with me through multiple businesses. So she's seen me do something that's totally not even related to, you know, social media and then watch me do that and see what a difference. So she'd probably be a great person to talk to and ask what that was what it's been like. And I've gotten my obviously feedback from her. We have a, we communicate very well. And I know that I have a hard time being present with, with people that I'm with. Now that's part of why I love this podcast because it forces me to be present and we get to know each other we're talking. But outside of here, it's really easy for me to grab my phone and start answering emails or messages on social media. Excuse me, whatever. So that has been

Starting point is 01:00:03 something that I have been working on. And I've actually, I'm doing certain things with certain people in my life. So I have my moms, and I say moms, because I refer to my two best friends, moms, is like my moms too, and my own mom, and then my dad, and then I've got my aunt and uncle, and then I've got my girl at home.

Starting point is 01:00:23 And all of them I felt have suffered, and they all mean a lot to me. And so there's little things that I've got my girl at home. And all of them I feel have suffered and they all mean a lot to me. And so there's little things that I've started to do to create habits, to make sure that I stay connected. And I never thought that I'd have to do that. Like it was, like for me to work on relation, I'm a very outgoing guy, personable. I'm very, with all my friends have always been,

Starting point is 01:00:43 somebody you could reach out talk to to and I'm always there for everybody But to see me start to disconnect because of the business It's forced me to really look at my habits and my patterns and then start to put things in place To counter that then I'll give you an example with like Katrina something that's really changed The landscape of our relationships since this business has started You know, we read together once a month, we knock a book out. And I started at the beginning of the year. So every month we knock out a new book, we pick it together and then we listen to it on Audible. And that, if I knock a book out that requires me to put X amount of hours in,

Starting point is 01:01:21 and that's how I figured that out. It's like, okay, let's set a goal. That's realistic, because obviously, if I was trying to crank out one a week, I know I would never maintain that pace with everything I have on my play, but I know I could knock them up with her. Like, that means we set aside a few hours a week every week to listen to this audio book together.

Starting point is 01:01:38 And, you know, what it's done is been pretty incredible. Not only are we growing and we learning together, but then it also strikes up at great dialogue. Afterwards, we have these crazy and depth conversations that remind me of when I first met her six years ago. That's just one thing that I've started to do. For me, that's been weighing on me a lot, is becoming more present with the people that I love and I care about because it's really easy for us to become consumed by these tools. That was so powerful because it's exactly

Starting point is 01:02:09 how we started this podcast with your core lesson. And I know for me, like, I'm getting so many mirrors from what you just said, man, because I'm in the thrush of building my business right now. And I actually, my greatest edge is scheduling fun and scheduling connection. That's my greatest edge right now. And I actually, my greatest edge is scheduling fun and scheduling connection. That's my greatest edge right now. And it's so important because that's what gives me

Starting point is 01:02:30 all the positive biology chemicals that my logical brain knows are important. But it's also like we go through seasons in life sometimes. You know, and sometimes you need to build a castle. Right, right. And it is what it is, right? But then having that awareness like you have, that's really where I find myself. Now it's like, how do I build a business in a strong castle, but also not lose my emotional

Starting point is 01:02:51 health and presence along the way? Like what does that look like? I tell you what, in this format. I attribute a lot of that for me to Katrina because I've relied on her to be patient with me and to be that person, to be that mere, to give me that feedback. Because at the very beginning of this, I remember looking at her and saying, like, I know I'm not gonna be the best man I can be right now,

Starting point is 01:03:11 because I know that I'm going to sacrifice a lot of our, just a year before we started this, her and I really didn't work for almost a year and we traveled, like we traveled, so fucking incredible. So imagine having a year like that, that was like became the norm. Like every month we are going somewhere to. So fucking incredible. So imagine having a year like that. That was like became the norm. Like every month we are going somewhere to like a hard winter.

Starting point is 01:03:28 Right, exactly. Yeah, winter is coming for sure. That's what happened. And imagine what a shock that was for her, you know, to have to go through that where, you know, almost every month my man was taking me somewhere and we were spending days, sometimes weeks together and some other

Starting point is 01:03:45 country or some beach or whatever. And what an awesome life that we had for about a year there. And then okay, reality came around and said, okay, it's time for both of us to get our shit together. We've enjoyed it. We've enjoyed it. She went, she took a new job where she was going to be plus in her ass. I started a new business.

Starting point is 01:04:01 And we both kind of looked at each other like, hey, we know that we're going to have to schedule time for this relationship because otherwise, we'll get really focused. And so we have these check-ins that we have to do. And at the beginning, we didn't. And we saw, we caught ourselves where we were drifting apart. And we had this wake-up moment of, whoa, we actually, as much as we love each other, as much as we enjoy each other's

Starting point is 01:04:24 company, because we're so hyper focused on building the castle, that, you know, we got to schedule this stuff. And that, to me, is key. That's starting to do that where I organize those trips, those times, to the point where I know that she has a trip schedule for just her and I to get away for three days next month, and I don't even know where we're going, what it is, I just, she's just made sure it's in the calendar, I can't put anything in it. And so we know that enough time has gone by that we got a message.

Starting point is 01:04:50 That has been the most powerful thing I've ever done is like putting things in my phone, putting things in the calendar, because if they're there, I'll actually do them. And then I won't be a victim from my circumstance. I'll be the victor, because I've taken proactive control over my own schedule. And I think how many people are listening can relate to this this like they feel like maybe they're a victim to their schedule

Starting point is 01:05:08 And how does that relate to their health and wellness specifically? This is a big one It is and I know it seems simple like oh well, duh, but do it. Yeah, right? So if it's so simple then execute on it And if you're listening you're feeling like uncomfortable. Well, they're so true probably because they get into that exactly The other thing to consider is experiences are so much more valuable than things. So much more valuable than things. And they've actually done studies on this

Starting point is 01:05:32 where they've taken people and questioned them and asked them what they remembered the most about the last five years and one of the most meaningful things. And almost never is it the new TV they bought or the new car or the wardrobe. It's always that trip I went on or that class that I took or that thing that I learned over here. It's experiences.

Starting point is 01:05:51 I think... I think it's on Tinder. Sorry, first kiss on Tinder. That's hilarious. But I mean, I mean, all honestly, let's be honest. That's for just that. That's a very mad remember. That's a very old man.

Starting point is 01:06:03 That's the beginning of my mouth. That was number four. That's where we met, remember? That's where we all met. That's the beginning of my time. That was number four. That was number four. It's, you know, take all that money that you invest on, you know, things and, you know, that coffee every morning and the new pair of shoes and all that stuff and maybe the extra bedroom in the place you're renting. Take that money and spend it on experiences and watch the quality of your life improve. It's funny every time I meet people who travel a lot,

Starting point is 01:06:26 they, I don't know if it's just me, I don't know if you guys ever see this, but people who tend to travel, it seemed to have like this kind of wisdom about them. That's very different. There's other things that come into play there. I don't know if that's the direct correlation. They're getting a lot of novelty when they travel.

Starting point is 01:06:38 Yeah, they're gonna have a novelty. You're also seeing different cultures and like, Oh, that's what I'm saying. That's totally normal over here, just because we demonize it over here, maybe it's not such a bad thing. You learn a lot when you travel, not to mention what you, having to communicate to

Starting point is 01:06:51 another person if it's another language, like I mean, there's a lot that happens on that. And I think each person is different because I know that's your experience and that's your narrative that that's how you feel, but I think there can be people that can, there could be tangible that can, there can be tangible things that are very valuable to them, like an extra room, that you, I mean,

Starting point is 01:07:10 stuff like that, or, you know, coming from a sneaker head, you threw out sneakers right there, so like, I feel the need to defend them that if somebody, somebody, I do, I like things, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do. I'll come after my hair. Well, you got to ask me, man. But do you like the thing, or do you like the essence of what the thing brings you? Yeah, it's the essence of the thing that brings you. Is it really about the thing?

Starting point is 01:07:28 It's not. It's really, it's really, it's, it's what, I was, okay, so literally this was yesterday. I was like half a stalwart. I was just, so after my shoe boxes start to stack up, I order these clear boxes from Amazon. Wow. I organize all of them, right?

Starting point is 01:07:41 So I'm going through and I'm organizing all my shoes in my spare room and I'm looking, and I'm going like, shoes in my spare room and I'm looking and I'm going like, what is it about this that I love someone? I was questioning myself, I always do, especially when I spent the day doing this. I'm good, I must really enjoy this if I'm like stacking and organizing my shoes by brands and things like that, right?

Starting point is 01:07:58 And I'm going through and I'm looking at them like, and what it reminded me, I had this moment of being a child and I remembered how I used to sit and collect my baseball cards. And I would just look at all of them. And I would organize them by team and all these things like that. And it's a similar type of a feeling, right? Like the baseball cards that I bought, like, you know, was it really the baseball cards that were so important to me?

Starting point is 01:08:18 Or is it like the essence, like you said, the whole process of opening it, looking at it, reading the stats, the player, knowing all that stuff. Or buying an old classic car that reminds you of when you built it, when you were 16, you saved up all your money for two summers. I had a 96 Mustang when I was 17. The 56 Gs. Every time I see a Morrowd, my heart's like, oh, no. But you guys, you guys realize you guys are nostalgia.

Starting point is 01:08:43 You guys are not explaining things right now. What are you guys explaining? The experience. Yeah, but what actually you're actually. You're replicating it. But that's my point of interrupting you on that was that, you know, it can be for tangible things can be that way for somebody else.

Starting point is 01:08:58 So, because I don't ever want you to come off like, oh, people that buy things, there's something, you're demonizing that, like there's something wrong with that, there's nothing wrong with buying things, you can buy things and actually get similar joys, there's nothing wrong with that. No, no, I don't think. Just because you have found that the traveling and kayak are doing it.

Starting point is 01:09:14 No, no, no, no, no, I think, and wearing, you know, no, I said, experience that don't matter. No, I'm not, I'm not, you know. I said, experiences, just buying the shoes and having them is not what you enjoy. It's the experience of them And so and that's what I said I literally said experiences and that's the thing like Most of the things that people buy are not experiences. I can make that statement. I can stand right behind it

Starting point is 01:09:35 What things people buy it's because they just own shit Yeah, it's not gonna keep up with the Joneses and whatnot It's it's not because of experiences And it brings so much better quality of life when you understand that and you spend money on or you invest your money on experiences rather than things. So yeah, you can buy shit and you can buy a car, you can buy shoes or you can buy the experience of those things, which is what you guys are explaining.

Starting point is 01:09:59 But I think getting to that is the key. We're both right. The key. It's asking yourself, it's the same thing that I did in that room. I'm always doing this to my, I'm always questioning myself. And especially things that I do that are habits or whatever. I'm looking at my, is this a healthy thing?

Starting point is 01:10:12 Like I'm looking at all these shoes in my lips. There's something wrong. Is there something wrong with me? And I come to this point where it's like, I'm not like I'm living beyond my means. It's not like I'm wasting them. I wear them all. And I like them. And I'm living beyond my means. It's not like I'm wasting them. I wear them all. Like, and I like them.

Starting point is 01:10:26 And I take good care of them. And it reminds me, it gives me this feeling that I had when I was a kid, when I clicked the cars. And I'm like, I'm not gonna get rid of that because maybe somebody else thinks that that's a waste of money because they could sell those shoes and they could travel around the world with that.

Starting point is 01:10:40 Like that, so that's you. Maybe you would want to travel around the world and you have that experience. But for me, it provides an experience that's very fulfilling, right? Right. It's a tangible experience. No, experiences are very individual. But I mean, even circling it back to fitness, if we look at the most successful fitness facilities and, you know, centers and programs, the most successful ones are based off of experience. Absolutely. And so it really goes back to that as well. I know there's a lot of big box gyms out there that are really, really cheap, especially

Starting point is 01:11:11 nowadays. You can get a membership for 15 bucks a month and have all kinds of equipment accessible to you. And the rate of success with these types of facilities is very low compared to the rate of success to smaller facilities that have that experience. Well, dude, this is why the four walls of the club are collapsing faster than anybody can realize because, you know, sources like Peloton with their virtual cycling and Rush and all

Starting point is 01:11:36 these different studio experiences in your house on a massive television. They're great. Directly to you. Competing and gamifying with everybody in different states across the United States What I mean you can't compete with that if you're a club for 15 bucks I'm if you're a planet fitness and you can't make loud noises and you can't like actually be in a gym yet You can get an incredible experience connected across if you're a gamer and you know like call of duty And then all of a sudden now you have online capability where you can talk to your buddies and you're shooting people

Starting point is 01:12:05 together so much better. But then this ties into falling in love with the process, like working out should be joy and fun, not like misery and pain, although sometimes that's kind of fun too. Yeah. So, but tying in this like virtual component, it's such a big deal now in this world.

Starting point is 01:12:23 Like this is where we are. Okay, it's here whether we like it or not. I think these successful clubs that are leveraging tech and that are giving people an in-home experience or an orange theory is doing. I was just going to ask you what's your... Let's dive into that. I love talking about business like this. What do you think about businesses like Orange Theory?

Starting point is 01:12:41 Obviously, we know they're doing well. They're one of the fastest growing companies right now in fitness that they're up to. I think it was like, fucking 700 and something locations I read. They're showing it. Something ridiculous, right? So I just read an article. I think it was in Forbes talking about them

Starting point is 01:12:56 and how fast they're growing. So they're exploding. But I wonder how long will that last when you're seeing other companies like you're talking about that are creating the same experience in your home for probably a lot less. Well, if you can create the essence, let's so cool, we've talked about the essence, right? If you can create the essence outside the club or outside the group fitness studio, bring that same environment to somebody competing on their own through a device, shit, maybe even like VR, right? What about a HUD headset

Starting point is 01:13:22 that delivers VR, somebody's running and they're in the class, even though they're physically not in the class? That's the kind of experiences I think are coming. And Vaynerchuk's been talking about this for years already. Okay? The VR component is well on its way. It's already being integrated. Facebook just has- A augmented reality. Or augmented reality. It's all here. It's like, well, when is it going to be here? It's like, it's already here. So I think that's where we're going. And I think when we look at Orange Theory and like Peloton and this transfer of power right now, the ivory towers have shown cracks for a long time, dude,

Starting point is 01:13:50 in the fitness space. These big box clubs are dying us low death and they're frenetically scrambling to try to get hold back. Oh, God, can you see them? Can you see, I love watching. I not only can see them, I hear them when I go to Ursa, I understand what they're saying,

Starting point is 01:14:03 because like, they're trying to figure it out. Like what Justin's created and this axon, this is the kind of training tools people need because it actually connects why the hell someone would do it in the first place and show them progress on the long term they can connect with other people about it. That's what it's all about, man.

Starting point is 01:14:17 There's no joy in running on a treadmill by yourself and making an ex on your calendar at home. Right, right. It doesn't exist. So I think that's what they're doing well, is they did a good job, and I was there for what, two years, they did a good job of building this community, right?

Starting point is 01:14:31 Like they do of this experience of like, cheers when you walk in, you walk in and you feel like, it's home, you know, and so they're playing into that really well right now, but I wonder how much longer these brick and mortars can really last. You know what else the good studios are doing is is they're combining the outside club experience, either data, steps, activity, whatever, and they're bringing it into the club.

Starting point is 01:14:52 They're gamifying. There's a company called Delta Life Fitness, Josh Cherries, their CEO, and they have like 50 locations already. So they're up and coming. They just opened up in Temecula. And they take outside data sets. They use Nudge Coach. They pull in data,

Starting point is 01:15:05 they raise life, they're steps, they have challenges for steps in activity and sleep. And so when people come into the Delta Life facility, they're competing not only in the facility, but they're competing outside the facility. And then of course, they're still doing these CrossFit Orange Theory type workouts, right? That involve like fun things and yelling and music and a guy wearing a headset that's wearing a shirt. You have to read errors as this to because this is the, this is the, I want you to read it to someone. I'm gonna read it, man, because we have to talk about this

Starting point is 01:15:30 because what we're talking about right now, here's what you're not gonna like about the book. And this is what I had a hard time with. Are you gonna go doom and gloom right now? Can I, can I, can I, can I, can I, can I rain on your parade a little bit? Yeah, go for it. So they, they believe that the connecting this part of it because of human's behaviors, that it's

Starting point is 01:15:48 going to feed the addiction and make things worse. And they actually talk shit about like wearables and things like that. I had a really hard time connecting with that part of the book because this is something I teach and I share with people. And I believe that it's the first step of awareness. I believe that these wearable tools are incredible and they've changed all of my clients' lives. And I've been able to use this as an incredible tool. But then I have to be, okay,

Starting point is 01:16:11 that this is my experience. This is, I have a total confirmation bias with this, right? So if I actually try and detach myself, read this book, absorb this information, and look at it and go like, wow, could this be dangerous? Could it be bad that we're just connecting more and more and more and more?

Starting point is 01:16:27 Because it goes circles back around how we started this whole conversation. And that's kind of where the book takes this is, you know, they really kind of demonized the wearable tools. Well, statistically speaking, people who work out at home or who want to work out at home are far less successful than people that go somewhere else. The people who work out consistently at home or who want to work out at home are far less successful than people that go somewhere else. The people who work out consistently at home

Starting point is 01:16:47 also are ranked as highly motivated with fitness. So people who buy gym equipment and do stuff at home are the ones that are already so committed typically to exercise that they just want it in their house, they can do it whenever they want. It really, you believe that's a true step? A hundred percent. A lot of treadmills have doilies and fakes and i don't know if i would

Starting point is 01:17:06 believe that i'm not that's what i'm saying people who buy home equipment and use it are are very motivated individuals it's not all the ones that actually use it yeah it's not a convenience factor and this is where i have a problem with uh... with tech and wearables sitting at the answer i think they're tools i think they're great tools i think they're providing some great information i don't think that the answer because convenience is not a factor, it hasn't been a factor for a long time. People could work out a home for,

Starting point is 01:17:31 I mean, home workout videos have been, you know, you sell more home workout videos than you sell gems. This is the argument the book makes. Is that, and that's, and that's the thing. You're right, so is the book, but so is the other thing. There's laws of nature,ities. One of them. So you're right. But which one do we focus on? Because each one has its own merit.

Starting point is 01:17:52 Like each one is correct. It just depends on where you apply the energy and if it's the fit for your personality type for you. So then on that note, then this is because I mean, even being a guy who was tied with more serious because of my good buddy who started them, I mean, even being a guy who was tied with Orange Theory because of my good buddy who started him, I think it actually perpetuates a very bad relationship with exercise. I think people, and I saw this firsthand when I worked there and people become so addicted to the game part of winning, of beating the other person, scoring more points, getting more, you know, what do they call, I forget what they call them over there,

Starting point is 01:18:25 a splat points, than this person, that they're not doing what's best for their body. They're not doing what they need, they're doing what's gonna win the game, and then what it ends up doing is, and so I actually made a living off of helping people that had this really bad relationship and connection to exercise and food,

Starting point is 01:18:46 and these were the type of people. It was like a fish and a barrel there. I mean, everybody, the people that I found, that was going away from quality, right? So the same thing with the argument I have with CrossFit and sort of making that into a sport as far as, my workout now is a sport. You know, they're gonna organize it in a way where I'm gonna compete

Starting point is 01:19:06 and I'm gonna do like by all means necessary to beat somebody else on this whiteboard. And that's gonna be my focus for the day is to take on this challenge, but it's always a challenge. Instead of internalizing what this is doing to benefit my body. And what kind of patterns can I establish with my movement that are gonna make me move

Starting point is 01:19:31 at my ultimate function and well-being, and it's gonna keep me consistent. So, I said it before, I'll say it again. If it becomes a part of the culture, it will succeed. If it doesn't, it won't. If you look at, let's use Europe as an example. What does that have to do with horn steering? No, no, no, no, I'm talking about technology,

Starting point is 01:19:48 I'm talking about these applications of these new wearables. If it becomes a part of the culture, it will become successful. If it doesn't, then it's gonna be the next fad. And I'll give you guys some examples, okay? If you look at Europe, Oh, it's gonna be a fad. If you look at Europe and you look at their obesity rates, their

Starting point is 01:20:05 obesity rates did not climb as quickly as America's. Part of the reason was they have a culture of eating that's older than ours. Now the country in Europe that did not have obesity until much later, and now we're starting to see a lot, is Italy. Italy had some of the best obesity rates, especially among children, for up until now. Their obesity rates now are skyrocketing, and it's because the culture, Italian culture, valued food so much that they would literally boycott a McDonald's when it would open up in a small town, because they'd be like, that's garbage food.

Starting point is 01:20:38 Now here's the thing with activity. If you go, a childhood obesity used to not exist. It used to not exist in this country. It took longer for kids to become obese than adults because the culture of children was, and of course their diets changed very rapidly as well, but the culture was to be active. If you were a child, you were active, always.

Starting point is 01:20:56 It wasn't, your parents could be office workers, super-enactives sit on the couch all day long. This is where, but if you were a child, the culture was to move and be active, but that's not the case anymore. The case now is we are in a culture of inactivity and poor eating. That culture has to change and the fact that this is

Starting point is 01:21:13 in fucking Tai Chi, bro. You can't compare it to that. We're in a new era right now and you're taking history and you're talking about things. I'm talking about human behavior. Okay, you're talking about human behavior, though, and it's about the fucking change, dude. Right. It's changing before our eyes. That's my point. We are becoming more tech. I know it's your point but you can't compare what's happened in the past to what we're about

Starting point is 01:21:32 to see in the next 10 to 15 years. The wearable tools is not a fat bro. It's a it's we're beginning to be ingrained in our process. Well my point is they're getting culture becomes to become active. If the culture turns into through tech, to eat better, to eat the way that's better for your body, then you will see a massive positive shift in health. I think that's obvious. That's an obvious statement. You're curious if it's already integrated.

Starting point is 01:21:56 It's integrated now. I mean, look at Apple Watch and the attraction they've had. I think it's just the beginning of the beginning. I mean, the greatest services and products of the fitness industry are really despicable. Have not even been created yet. I mean, really soak that in. Like, the greatest products, the greatest services,

Starting point is 01:22:12 the most transformational shit you're ever gonna believe, hasn't even been invented yet. It's just the tip of the iceberg here. What is the internet done for businesses? Right. Imagine if you were to capitalize on all the things you know now in 2007 for Facebook, okay? You'd be in any place you were to capitalize on all the things you know now in 2007 for Facebook, okay? You'd be in any place you want to be from a media perspective because you would have seen it before it happens

Starting point is 01:22:31 And I believe we're on a ship and we all see the iceberg. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I do. It's it's a very fascinating topic. It's sort It's it's it could damage you you know, or you could use it Which one do we deal this to your benefit? Yeah, which one do you choose? Anything in the world has a good or an evil potential. Absolutely. So that's why I'm saying, I don't really know if anybody's right or wrong here. It's more like, which one do we choose to go with based on our integrity, based on who we are?

Starting point is 01:22:56 Where we actually go. Yeah, no matter what, I don't think you stop it because we're all free market. All of us for sure are free market guys. So none of us think that that should be police to regulate it. So I'm definitely not somebody who thinks it should be stopped. But I definitely think people should be thinking about what they're getting into. And I think even like what I saw,

Starting point is 01:23:18 what's a focus on with it, especially, even watching what's going on. Back to circling back to orange theory, because I had an opportunity to work there for two years Because I've watched the growth of it when it had 20 something clubs to now 700 over felt like over a night But within a couple years and I actually don't think it's a healthy relationship with exercise I think it does I actually think it does more harm than good and I know that's a lot of people that know me that know I was connected to that are gonna be like oh there's an orange theory trainer right now going like, right? That's really

Starting point is 01:23:48 pissed off. And it's, and it's because when I, and again, this is anecdotal, right? So I, my only experience is seeing about 2,000 different people over the course of two years in one facility. So that's my experience. And so someone could totally debate this, but in my experience, a majority of those people that were walking through that door are where the people that didn't need that. Because there is a place for that. There are people, there is some people that I think that can be an awesome tool.

Starting point is 01:24:14 If you know how to use it correctly, you know how to turn it on and off, you know when you should be pushing the body that way. But what it does is it feeds into an addiction that people that don't belong there are doing. It's literally the people that are... You get into the group mind of it. Yes, it's focused on the individual.

Starting point is 01:24:32 Right, it's the people that are scared to work out with themselves because they don't know, they don't know any better. It's the people that hammer themselves all day long, high stress. Then they go into this high intensity group setting and those people are the ones that need to be by themselves, talked about all their imbalances, address all their aches and pains, fix all of that, fix their relationship with themselves, fix their relationship with their exides, then maybe they can introduce that intermittently into their life, but those are the people that

Starting point is 01:24:58 are signing up for that. That's what's scary. That's what scares me. And when you see something like that growing so fast and we're praising it because it's doing so It's so successful financially see which to me is always a red flag right away. It's something's fucking so good so awesome What is it about it? That is so great ask yourself why am I in so in love and so addicted to this thing? That's because they made it so you would be addicted to it because they what I saw and I

Starting point is 01:25:23 From day one and these guys know, because I talked behind the scenes about this stuff, I stepped into it knowing it's not something that I believe in. It was somebody who is a buddy of mine starting it, and I said I would help him build a good culture inside his facility. And so I tried to implement all of my beliefs and ideologies with health and fitness into a facility trying to impact them all. And I thought we did a pretty good job.

Starting point is 01:25:46 It was the number one facility for the first, the two years that I was there. I don't know what it does. What was the difference? How did you make that culture grow in a positive mind frame? So here's the deal. And this is where I got a lot of pushback because I was doing things in the facility that you weren't supposed to do. That wasn't franchise.

Starting point is 01:26:00 It wasn't part of the franchise. So when everybody else would normally do these like three minute, you know, warming them up on the bike and the, and the, uh, rower, I would have them doing dynamic warmups and I would be teaching them about flexibility. At the end, when you're supposed to do like this kind of generic cool down thing, I would be teaching them about nutrition. So I'd three minutes, I give them a tip of the day and then I write stuff on the board. So I was doing stuff inside the facility to give these people more because I knew

Starting point is 01:26:25 that they weren't getting enough information. All they were doing was coming for the experience that they were already addicted to when I was seeing all these embassies, these people running, got the knee herds, my ankle herds here, Adam, they got all this bad post here. Re-enforcing the shit out of them. Right, and then they teach their trainers,

Starting point is 01:26:39 because it's a fast paced class, they teach their trainers how to correct form. And it's like, you can't correct somebody who has an imbalance that they've had for 30 years by coming over and just fixing their form for a second. Like, you gotta teach them what's wrong with their body, what exercises they need to do to fix that, and then what they need to avoid that's causing that.

Starting point is 01:26:57 So, if you're not, and you can't do that in a fast paced class, right? So, I tried to do my best to implement that in there, and I still was not successful. And the data doesn't lie when you look at wellness programs. The reason why corporate wellness is growing is because it's not just myopic thinking of work your ass off in an orange theory fitness class. The reason why maybe what you're doing was successful is because you were throwing in

Starting point is 01:27:18 extra components of wellness, right? And so whether you use technology or not, this whole person is what needs to be addressed. It's not about just getting somebody fit and kicking their ass in the gym. I mean, occasionally that's important, right? But wellness is so much bigger than just how much you're sweating and how fit you are in your body. Like there's so many components to it.

Starting point is 01:27:37 And I think we've done such an amazing job of like exploring this today. Right, like real life. Like, driving into it, you know? And I'm thinking about in my own life, with wellness force, what's most important to me is just sharing my lessons, sharing my journey, man. Of this intersection of what does it mean

Starting point is 01:27:54 to be physically intelligent in my body? What does it mean to be intelligent about my emotions? And that's what I'm just so excited to continue to get better on and learn on. I mean, I feel like I'm down the path, right? But it's important for everyone listening who's like a trainer, I know a lot of trainers listen to your podcast.

Starting point is 01:28:09 You do not have to be a black belt to train a white belt. You can be a green belt, like don't feel overwhelmed by all this stuff. It doesn't have to be that way. Right, right, right. Appreciate it. Hey, check this out. Go to mindpumpmedia.com, enroll in 30 days of coaching.

Starting point is 01:28:23 It's available for free. Tons of great fitness information covers the entire gamut of wellness and fitness topics that we talk about on Mind Pump. Also go to YouTube, check out our channel. Mind Pump TV, subscribe. There's a new video every single day. Finally, find us on Instagram.

Starting point is 01:28:38 Mind Pump Media, my pages, Mind Pump Sal, Adams at Mind Pump Atom, and Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ball, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal and

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 590: Josh Trent of Wellness Force on the Future of Tech in Fitness & Beyond

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