Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 623: Josh Trent Digs into Adam's Childhood, Motivation, Keto, Emotional Intelligence & MORE

Episode Date: October 23, 2017

In this episode, Sal and Adam talk with Josh Trent of Wellness Force Radio (www.wellnessforce.com) at the Spartan World Championships (@spartanrace) at Lake Tahoe. Josh is an excellent interviewer and the conversation goes deep and gets quite personal as Josh probes Adam about his childhood. We guarantee that the discussion is not only engaging but will provide you with real and actionable value. Adam “Big Bougie” Schafer (2:19) Guys talk childhood and where they came from (4:16) What is the greatest lesson your father taught you? (14:50) Being a victim or victor coming from broken home (17:05) Being a father figure in life or fitness setting (19:15) Taking care of others motivates you or are you self-motivated? (20:46) Keto is not for everyone (25:38) Appetite suppression (38:00) Adam’s transformation story (39:48) Taylor Valenzuela story (46:18) Did Adam’s transformation spark Mind Pump? (52:05) Giving without wanting anything back (54:00) o   Thrive Market (56:00) Emotional intelligence, how do you fill the gap between knowing and doing? (1:00:05) How do you define real wellness? (1:11:00) Related Links/Products Mentioned: Wellness Force (website) Josh Trent (@WellnessForce)  Twitter Josh Trent (@trent_sd)  Instagram Wellness Force Radio Podcast Fitness + Technology by Josh Trent Moving is tough for kids | Psychology Today (article) The Four Tendencies - Gretchen Rubin - Wellness Force Ep 532 Dom D'Agostino - Mind Pump Media Dietary dogma: How paleo, low-carb, raw food and other fads do nutrition a disservice (article) What You Eat Affects Your Productivity (article) Maslow's hierarchy of needs WeLove2HateAdam Transformation (YouTube) Thrive Market (Mind Pump sponsor) One FREE month’s membership $20 off your first three purchases of $49 or more (That’s $60 off total!) Free shipping on orders of $49 or more Shoepreme (website) It's Not About the Number of Followers! (YouTube) MAPS Super Bundle (1 year of exercise programming) (Updated) Nutrition Survival Guide Subliminal Product Placement in movies (study) When Unhealthy Foods Hijack Your Brain (article) People Mentioned: Tony Robbins (@TonyRobbins)  Twitter Cal Fussman (@calfussman)  Twitter Gretchen Rubin (@gretchenrubin)  Twitter Dominic D'Agostino (@DominicDAgosti2)  Twitter Zach Bitter (@zbitter)  Twitter SHOEPREME (@Shoepreme)  Twitter Paul Chek (@PaulChek)  Twitter website Shanna Mota (@shannamota)  Instagram Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS Prime Pro, which shows you how to self assess and correct muscle recruitment patterns that cause pain and impede performance and gains. Get it at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Also check out Thrive Market! Thrive Market makes purchasing organic, non-GMO affordable. With prices up to 50% off retail, Thrive Market blows away most conventional, non-organic foods. PLUS, they offer a NO RISK way to get started which includes: 1. One FREE month’s membership 2. $20 Off your first three purchases of $49 or more (That’s $60 off total!) 3. Free shipping on orders of $49 or more Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Get Organifi, certified organic greens, protein, probiotics, etc at www.organifi.com Use the code “mindpump” for 20% off. Go to foursigmatic.com/mindpump and use the discount code “mindpump” for 15% off of your first order of health & energy boosting mushroom products. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Also includes 20% if you purchase! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You know, this was done at the Spartan 2017 Tahoe Championship. We had a chance to sit down. We told Justin to get the fuck out of here for a while. You guys just kicked me out. No, I don't appreciate it. No, what were you doing? You were out that you were at the races doing a bunch of funny stuff. No, actually I was out interviewing like all these different people racing and messing with them.

True Pete told, we know how you get when we talk about emotional stuff. He didn't want to be a part of it because he's super uncomfortable. Somebody's not okay with talking about their feelings, but I tell you what, out of all around you guys. Out of all the interviews that we've done, this is real talk right here. So this is shout out to our boy, Josh Trent. He's one of our favorite podcasters. He's a great interviewer.

He has amazing conversation with them. It gets real deep, it's not formulaic. It flowed really well. Me and Adam talked about quite a few things. Everything from childhood to connection to food, wellness. Yeah, no, we were all, we did. We went all over the place with leadership and personal development and we got into business stuff

and like you said, nutrition exercise. It was a great conversation at Flodrwy Well. Josh just has an incredible ability to really direct the conversation and ask really good deep questions. Like I love an interviewer that has that ability to like, get into your soul. And I remember like, right out the gates,

we got diving into like my dad's death and stuff. And it was like, instant, emotional right out the gate. So if you're somebody who likes to hear stuff like that, you'll really enjoy this episode. It's a really, really powerful episode. We had a lot of fun. What we talked about was technology. Yeah.

When I talked to him. It's super lame. So Josh Trent, his podcast is wellness forced Yeah. When I talked to him. Super lame. So Josh Trent, his podcast is Wellness Force. You've got to go check it out. It's a fantastic podcast. His website is wellnessforce.com. Also, I'd like to say we have, right? We just completed our trainer,

train the trainer seminar. We've got some of the trainers in the room right now. Can you guys make some noise? Get some whoop whoop. Oh snap. We got a studio audience in here, but anyways, so without any further ado, here we are talking to Josh Trent from Wellness Force. Let's start off by picking your surname. What is your nickname? Yeah, because we don't, I just realized we don't have a nickname.

I thought, isn't there rules to nickname? Don't you, you can't give it to yourself, right? Doesn't someone else have to give it to you? I feel like you are big country big country yeah especially because we're here in the brown house I don't know if the reason why I can't be big country is because I know we can call him big bougie we at oh bougie bougie what does bougie mean like like like he likes nice things and things that that sparkle and we talked about this last time when I'm out like your shoe fetish like you are a dynamic shoe collector. So two times now, he's been flagged by security at the airport. And he thinks it's because he's got a big beard. I think it's because, you know, he says about whatever, but he's been flagged. And so, you know, they take your shoes off, they do the whole thing.

Yeah. And he wears these hilarious socks that just covers toes and go right under and it's super feminine and hilarious looking. They're on right now. And we make fun of them for it, but Adam is very confident in himself. And can you show everybody your socks? They're just, they're no show socks. They're black and they're of. Right? So if you're going to wear a pair of vans like these with a pair of tapered sweats that's

going to show my ankle. Yeah, you don't want to do what I do. Although I got the black socks on today. You're okay today. I'm good today. Thanks, Adam. But yeah, now they're just so and I otherwise these actually look like like dancing socks Yeah, that's for a fun ballerina the first time the first time that Sal had seen these that's he thought they were ballet They were ballet shoes and so yeah, no they they would made fun of me and gave me a hard time

But you know what looks like you put on my kid's sock or something I didn't I didn't even know these existed for a really long time and you know what? It looks like you put on my kid's sock or something. I didn't even know these existed for a really long time and you know, it used to frustrate me because I love this style of a shoe. But then it only looks good in my opinion when you wear it on my barefoot and then my feet would stink and that drives me crazy. So I have a lot of shoes that are a very low top that I like to wear and I don't always want to wear my style or socks. Let's talk about people that wear white socks.

What's the deal with that? That's the quarter socks. It's people that wear the white socks. No, he makes fun of wear my stylish socks. Let's talk about people that wear white socks. What's the deal with that? You know, these quarter socks, it's people that wear the white socks. No, he makes fun of me for my socks all the time. And I don't get it. But then again, I don't get a lot of things in relation to fashion. I just don't.

Well, where did you grow up, man? Like, what was the actual birthplace of Sal de Stefano? San Jose, California. And Boran Rez, you worked with your dad for a while. I didn't do my usual research. I wanted this to be super organic kind of like how you guys flow. Yeah, so Fun that way. Yeah, no, I didn't work with them. It's just when I was a kid especially in the summer when I was at a school So my dad's a he works with he's a stone worker. So he does tile marble granite My dad's extremely talented a way to does he's done it since he was a child. And in the summer, when I had to have school,

he would take me to work with him. So I have lots of experience with this kind of labor, this hard work, and I'd mix cement for him and carry the buckets that cement up. And eventually when I got older, I learned how to grow out and do all that stuff. And I really enjoyed the time I spent with my dad, but I also learned a very valuable lesson for me.

In fact, this is a lesson that for me is one of the core, just part of my core. It's a fundamental lesson I learned. It's this right here. I hate working with my hands. I really don't like working with my hands, so that's why I talked for a living. Not about that.

Now, what about you, man? Where were you born? Actually, San Jose, California. Also, only I'm not born and raised there. I was born there by two years old. what about you man we're born uh... actually san Jose california also only i'm not born and raised there i was born there by two years old my family had moved out of there and i lived in nine different homes growing up what why not we were uh... we were poor um... and i had uh... i mean to the point where a lot of times we get evicted from a house and then we'd have to move to

another one uh... or my dad my step, my stepfather at the time, would lose his job or he'd be who's a contractor. So he would do, you'd have a big job for a year or two years and they would complete the job. And then if there was no work, sometimes we'd have to move, sometimes we'd move to a whole other state. Like we lived in Colorado for about a year and a half of my life. So I was on the go a lot. They did keep me, they were, it was nice. I remember when we got to high school, that was like a really important thing for my parents and I'll never forget that for them

because they knew they had to be tough for us kids going from school to school. New friends, you know, having to start over. And those are very formulative years. Like that's where you bond and create social relationships. Like that's challenges. Well, it's such a great point that you say that. Yeah, and Adam's really good at something I've noticed about him,

and I've noticed about people who've done that a lot when there were kids. His ability to, you know, walk into a crowd and then just be comfortable talking to people is incredible. And I think in part because he learned how to do that, right? Am I wrong? You were socially forged to be the man you are now, because that's true. I've seen you operate. You can bust any group up and you'll be like,

hi guys, I'm your friend in 30 seconds. So 100% I agree with that. It took me later in my life to really understand that and put that together. And it makes me, I'm a big Tony Robbins fan. And I remember watching one of his videos and watching him talk and get into somebody. And I remember this video of him getting into this lady

about what was going on with her life. And she's talking to all the, oh, my dad was this way and that way and she's complaining, complaining. And learning to thank him for all the same things that you are upset or that hurt you. And it made me really dive into my childhood and the things that I went through and 100% of as a kid, I never remember it.

I remember being new school. Here I am, you know, and starting all over. And I always had friends and it was tough to go from one school to another school, leave all my friends that I spent the last year to making. And now I'm in a new place. And I hated that. I hated that as a kid, but it also forced me, like you said, to find a way,

because I wanted friends and I wanted to be normal and I wanted to hang out and do those things and I played sports so I was around a lot of time. Have you always been athletic? Because I know Sal, you were pretty small at the beginning of your journey. I was a skinny kid growing up. I got tall really quick, so I wasn't necessarily small.

But you were a hard gainer. I was a very hard gainer, but it's hard to say because I was 14, you know what I'm sayinger. I was a very hard gainer, but it's hard to say because I was 14. You know what I'm saying? I think all four, looking back, hindsight's always 20, 20. It's like all makes sense now, but as a 14 year old, I feel skinny, I'm lifting weights, I'm not building all this muscle,

which is expected from a 14 year old, but at the time, like, oh my God, it's not working for me. And so I pushed my body and constantly tried to learn and grow, but it was all fueled by these insecurities, which later on motivated me to become who I am now with fitness, which is, I understand the root, you know, the real root causes of things like obesity and the root causes of the reason why people can't, you know, stay consistent with exercise or they can't find, they can't figure out how to eat right, even though the information's in front of them. And it was, a lot of it's based on some of those insecurities,

mine were just different. So I learned different, you know. What was like the biggest insecurity that you got to push through? What was that threshold for you? Just being skinny. The worst thing you could ever tell me when I was growing up, and me and Adam share this, we're very, very similar in this regard. The worst thing you could ever tell me or

call me was skinny when I was growing up. And people use that term not in a negative sense. Like if you're getting lean, people, oh my God, hey, look, you look skinny. You look skinny. It's like a compliment for someone. You might as well, it's like you put a knife on my heart when I hear that. Like, oh, or like when I'd go swimming with my family and I'd get my bathing suit and I'd walk out and my aunt would be like, oh my God, what kid needs to eat some food, he's too skinny. And they meant it in a loving way, and they didn't mean it in a bad way to hurt my feelings,

but it really hurt my feelings a lot, and I really took that to heart. And I didn't really face that head on. I became aware of it as an adult, and I knew about it. I just chose to ignore it in the sense that I lied to myself. You know, I lied to myself all the time, like that's not really an issue, even though all my behaviors totally pointed back to the fact that I was still very insecure

and I wanted to be the big guy. Like I never went on a diet to get lean because why would I try to get lean? I don't want to get smaller, it's always trying to get big. I force fed myself, I'd get my body weight up to 235 pounds, I'm not a big frame guy. So I'd be this huge. And how much do you weigh now?

I'm probably 185, 190 maybe. Okay. I'd be this huge meatball walking around, but I'd be like, okay, I feel big now. I feel comfortable. And I didn't really face it 100% until relatively recently, I want to say there's two things that made me really face it. One was, I think I was 29 or 30.

I went on a camping trip with two of my staff members. One was a physical therapist, one was a massage therapist, but both of them were very holistic with their approach and both of them really understood this side of fitness. And up until this point, I had known correctional exercise very well. I knew nutrition very well from a performance fat loss, whatever standpoint.

And you had to support people very well. But I didn't understand some of this other stuff that they would talk about all the time. And we were camping and I'm doing team building with them. And I always wanted to be a good leader. And so I would engage in what they wanted to engage in. I would entertain their ideas. And we were meditating after we'd gone along hike. And this is after three days of camping, which is very uncomfortable for me. And I think, right, we talked about this last time. That's why your edges right

now. Yes, nature. Yes. And I think when you put yourself in uncomfortable situations, you tend to examine things a little differently. So I don't think this would have worked. Had we not been camping away from things and I was uncomfortable to begin with. And we're sitting there and we're meditating and it wasn't like it nobody prompted me. But I chose to dive into that insecurity of mine. And as I'm diving into feeling insecure about this and why do I treat my body this way? And you know, what is, what's the real root of it? And I pictured my son and my son at the time was very young. He's 12 now, so he's probably seven. And he is, I mean, my kids both are the love of my life.

I can't even, there's no words to explain how I feel about my children and parents listening right now can relate. There's nothing quite like it. And it showed me what real unconditional always I used to say that to make me feel like I'm less of a true love. I'm like, I don't have any kids yet. Well, no, I think you can experience this is what makes you less. Yeah, exactly. I think you can experience it in other ways, but for me, you can be a father in many different

aspects besides children. For me personally, this is this is this did it for me. And I'm thinking of my son and I'm and I'm picturing him and he's my spitting image. He's probably gonna be you know skinny and tall and lanky. It's very similar to me in his attitudes about certain things and I pictured him and then I pictured myself when I was young and I'm like holy shit it's the same thing. Why? I can love my son so I love my son so much and I could care less about that kind of stuff with him Like it doesn't even register my mind where I look at my kid and I think why aren't you building more muscle? I don't even think of that, but why do I why can't I do that for myself and there was a shift there a very very powerful shift

In the way I thought about those things and I started to actually make some changes, but I held on to some of the ones that I was most to actually make some changes, but I held on to some of the ones that I was most dogmatic or the ones that I was so connected to that I didn't even realize that those were also issues until my body turned on me and I had some health issues and then I was forced to really face the monster. And I mean I've had more growth in the last, I know, eight years and I had previous 30. Yeah, and this is what you explore, and I talked to you before we recorded,

like my opinion of when I first met MindPom, like you were really the one talking about wellness, not that you don't, not that Justin doesn't, but that was really your driver. It's like, hey, we're looking at the entire system here. This is not just about strength, training, and fitness. Why do you think that's the case for you specifically? Was it the upbringing?

Was it coming from being a heart gainer? And like more your autoimmune stuff that you had dealt with. I think I was faced, yeah, I think that's the case for you specifically. Was it the upbringing? Was it coming from being a hard gainer and like? More your autoimmune stuff that you had dealt with. I think I was faced with some different challenges than Adam and Justin. I think that's part of it. I think we're all a little bit different, although we all converge in terms of our integrity

and what we want to do with our podcast and with our message. Yeah. And I mean, I learn something from these gentlemen every single day. Everybody brings a different piece. I just am blessed to have that piece that I can offer to be able to work with these guys. And it makes me feel blessed because it makes me feel worthy to be working with such incredible people. Man, I feel so blessed to like you guys were a huge part of me being here,

so I just want to thank you on the podcast. Oh, much appreciated. Such an honor to be up here with these incredible athletes. Yeah. Health and wellness people that I've respected for so long just to be able to hang out and just to be in the ether of creativity. Isn't it great? Just to be in there.

So thank you for that. Isn't it great? One of the people who's in this, this beautiful ether was Cal Fussman. And we were sitting at the table and he was like, Hey, go right to the heart with your first question. And I want to go to the heart who's in this, this beautiful ether, was Cal Fussman. And we were sitting at the table and he was like, hey, go right to the heart with your first question. And I want to go to the heart with you, man, because he asked a big one and he said, what is the greatest lesson that your father taught you? Oh, I'm curious for you with this.

Oh, wow. You're going to get ready, bro. Yeah. Let's go there, because how much does emotional intelligence play into wellness and how much of you had to grow to be able to work with you? Oh, my God. You just asked Adam. what do you want like his favorite well you obviously don't know then so I my my father killed himself when I was seven so he didn't really teach me much so I don't have much memories of my dad but my stepfather my mom after so I had seven years my my real father took his life and nobody knows why or at least I didn't know as a child until I get older and then I look back

so That's how my my early years started then my mom marries into a abusive relationship So for 10 years I watched the two of them throwing frying pans at each other cops being called like all this stuff So I never really had a really good each other, cops being called like all this stuff. So I never really had a really good male figure in my entire life. But the most of really good male figures in my life came later, like into my teens and probably like 20 something years old when I started meeting other men, like in my profession or like minded people. And my mom really disconnected our family from like my uncles and my aunts and all my cousins. So I didn't even have an uncle or

another family member who I really connected to and would give me like this great fatherly advice. So a lot of what where I am at now in my life, a lot of that self-taught and I've definitely for sure pulled so much from all the other men that I've been around in my like 20s and for sure, much from all the other men that I've been around in my like 20s. And for sure, 20 to 30 was the most amount of growth as a man. And then from 30 to 35 right now, I think I feel like was the most growth is learning about myself. Man, I, I experience you as a fully present human. Like I never experienced you like disconnected.

You're always like whoever you're talking to, you're with them. And that's what I feel from you now. And I just think about what that would be like. I actually did not know that. So like my heart just filled up from you saying that. And you know, when I was a kid, my dad left home when I was like two months old. And so I never really knew what it was like

to just have like the standard mom and dad. I think a lot of people deal with this. How do you guys think that that relates to people gaining weight, not having a safe home base to where there's that existential stress all the time? How many people listening can relate to like being from a broken home, not having a safe home base to where there's that existential stress all the time. How many people listening can relate to being from a broken home, not being the victim, but being the victor?

What do you guys think that looks? I think that plays a massive role in who we are as adults and the problems that we end up encountering as we, you know, when something is an issue that you grow up with, it becomes a party who you are and you become so unaware of that that you can't even examine it.

You can't even examine this poor relationship you have with food because you don't realize it's a poor relationship. You're literally in the state of unconscious incompetence where you just don't know that you don't know. But you know, lots of these circumstances can forge you or it can crush you. And you look in Adam's situation, he grew up in very, very difficult circumstances. At the same time, he was the oldest of how many kids? Four or five? Yeah, no, it was a five. Oldest of five kids. And so knowing Adam, and I'm on the outside, so I think I can comment on this and I know him pretty well,

Knowing Adam and I'm on the outside. So I think I can comment on this and I know him pretty well He latched onto that and it turned him into a leader and the father figure of his family So he kind of learned those things because he valued his role in his family Well, it's funny that you made the comment about people can be a father without actually yes children, right? Yeah, and it's the hardest thing for people that don't really know how to connect to me with my whole personal relationship and not having kids, like I'm 35 years old. I've been with the woman, the woman that I'm gonna be with the rest of my life. I've been with her for six years.

We're not married yet because we have personal goals that we're trying to get and collective goals together that we where we wanna be financially and stuff stable before we get married, because it's not that important to either one of us. And then kids, kids are a possibility. It's not something that we absolutely have to have. I would love to have a kid, but I'm okay with not because I feel like I have been that role for my family my entire life. You fostered a father's ship relationship in many different areas. Like what else besides being a leader for your family have you done as a father role to help other people

I mean in a way trainers were kind of fathers or mothers to clients Really like they didn't get that when they were growing up so they're getting it from you and Adam and everyone else So how does that work to actually be a father figure in a fitness setting and a wellness setting? So I'll tell you one of and one of the proudest moments I ever had and it wasn't collecting a trophy or winning some big game or anything like that. And I've been a part of all those things. I've been a part of winning teams and comebacks

and I've had, I've broke all kinds of records at 24 fitness so I've all kinds of cool trophies at my house and been recognized for things like that. You sold the most body bugs. Yeah, right. But so yeah, exactly. There's all kinds of cool moments, things like that. But nothing, and I tell you what, one of the coolest moments going pro as a men's physique

guy, that was incredible. But nothing felt like the day that I'll never forget this day was we're in a meeting at Mountain View, which was the corporate office for 24-of-fitness, and our district manager is in there, and we're sitting in a meeting, and there's 12 of my peers, so they're all managers, district manager meeting, talking to us, and of the 12 individuals that are sitting around the table, eight of them are my guys. Eight of them are somebody that I hired, I trained, I developed, and that I watched them move into leadership.

And that was cool. Man, this external framework of accountability, I interviewed Gretchen Rubin. I'm gonna blize your personality. I don't know if you guys have explored this tendency type. A blasers, upholders, questioners, and rebels. It's about how we operate towards expectations in our lives. Like, let me ask you guys this. You feel like you operate, it seems like for you, taking care

of other people might be a really big driver for you. Absolutely. So you might be like me, you might be in a blizzard. But for yourself, do you find that taking care of others motivates you or do you find that inside, you're just self-motivated. You tap into that intrinsic force more. My self-motivation is driven by my bouts of creativity, and I call them bouts because they come real strong,

and then they go, and I've learned to just be okay with it. And there could be plants or weed involved. Yeah, maybe, maybe. But there's that, I mean, that's how it. Which can really help. Well, I mean, anytime you can alter your state of consciousness, whether change your environment, change your nutrition, meditate or use external substances,

it can encourage that process for sure, but it can also discourage it. There's a way to use those. But I go through periods of creativity that are just explosions where I can't get enough out of me. Then I go through periods where I don't, I just can't pull anything out and that's okay, I gotta be okay with that.

I'm definitely also very motivated though by taking care of other people. This is also something that me and Adam share as a common trait. I'm the oldest of four. I very much was the leader in my family in those regards. I just feel that natural is a natural role for me. I don't necessarily crave that role. It just usually is the role that I'm put in.

I enjoy doing it. I've managed teams since I was 19. I was managing Big Gems, and then I was in an entrepreneur at 21 with staffs. And I do feel good in that role. This current business that we're doing is very interesting though, because you have three hosts who in our own right are leaders

and if you want to label us Alpha, we tend to be the guy that tends to lead things. And now you got three of us. And statistics will tell you that that's a bad mix. You gotta have your leader and then you gotta have the other people that kind of follow and do whatever. Well, we've got three leaders. We've got three kind of Alpha leaders,

but we're also older. We're on our 30s. We're also very mature. I think that plays a big part of it here, because it's not like you're 21 or you're going fresh out of college. We would never be. Your hormones and your ego are way more expansive than. Like you've actually been through the ringer.

Life has taught you big lessons now. And we all want the same thing. We all want the same thing. We all want to succeed. We all want to change the industry for the better We want to make a massive influence and so we've all and this is fans amazing to watch because I'll be honest when we first started I loved what we were doing But I remember thinking like I wonder if we're ever going to butt heads

But it's it's phenomenal in the sense that there's times when I'll lead those times in Adam will leave This time lead there's times in Justin with leads and the other two Step back and let that person take that role because we know that it's gonna be better that way. Depending on the situation, depending on the moods, depending on what's happening in our lives, all of us don't have a problem doing that. And so we've developed this incredible dynamic,

and I really appreciate it. But yeah, going in at first I was like, oh fuck. I thought we're gonna get along. I think there's no way that we would have ever made it work at 25 because there was no way. There's experiences that we had to go through in our late 20s and even early 30s for us all to be in that place to allow that to happen. And for me, I know right away what my, the reason why it wouldn't work for me because early on in my career, a lot of my success was because I made it happen and I did it. Did it come from trust or to come from aggression and anger? It came, yeah, there was a chip.

There was a chip on my shoulder for being poor, not having things wanting things, not having a lot of help. I could do this, I'll do it, I'll figure it out, and that was always kind of my mentality. So I definitely think that I was like that in early years. It wasn't until my about 27 or so. Did I start to really learn and started to look at like my team as, okay, I'm trying to make everybody like me and be like me because I'm successful. And I figured this formula out.

And so I was trying to make everybody like me to get all of us to be successful. And it worked because I could always get a couple and because I ran so fast, that's all I really needed was one or two people to see my vision and we would crush and we do well. So I had a lot of fall success. So I'm doing great things and being told I'm great and so I must know what the fuck I'm doing.

So if Sal and I would have met and there's things where we don't, because we definitely don't always agree, we disagree a lot. But disagreement is healthy too, because we were talking about neutropics a little bit before and we're not gonna name any names, but there are studies out there that really take time, like real, like 10 years plus studies.

Those haven't been done on a lot of products that are being sold right now. You guys bust a lot of myths on Mind Palm. What do you think? This is a huge question. We'll probably have to do another show on this one question. What are the top one to three myths in the fitness space that people really get to know about?

No fluff, like let's cut right to the point here. Like let's go keto first. Okay, guys are open to that. Okay, sure. Because keto is not for everyone. Okay, so can you please expound upon keto? No, so ketogenic diets. Well first share art how this came about the way we delivered this message because raw fitness truth. Oh, yeah, over two over two years ago, I was about two years ago. When

when did we have Dom the very first time? A while ago. Maybe a year or four Keto before anyone even really knew Keto, right? Before he was on the Tim Ferriss show. Right. It was early on. It was right after that, I believe. So it was just people are just starting to find out about it and we had known about it and we and I remember we talked to Dom and we had a great conversation and at this time I'm eating four to 600 grams of carbs a day I'm a competitor were you puffy no bro I was fucking look wow I look badass okay which is part of the problem so yes, yeah, so that's where I wanna go with this. So there's, I'm eating 400 to 600 grams of carbs,

being able to interchange things that I like to enjoy in my diet every now and then, and looking jacked, I'm competing at the professional level in Minsphazik. And I've got these guys telling me like, oh, we should do this keto thing, I'm like, fuck that. Why would I wanna do that? This doesn't even sound like a good idea. And I thought you know what that's that's not the right attitude

In fact, just a simple fact that I have that attitude tells me I need to challenge that way of thinking Mm-hmm, and so I said all right Let's do this and Sal was already doing it He'd already he'd already committed. He was in doing he was trying to get me on board and I'm like nah not for me Dude and it's not my I have I've got my stuff dialed in the way I like it Yeah, I look great. I eat what I went through your discovery process of seeing what gave you the results you wanted. Right. Right. So why? You know, so that was, that was my way of thinking at that, at that time. And, you know, I was like, you know, that's just, and

I'm a very self-aware person or I try to be. And I noticed that about myself. And so I dug into a deeper and said, okay, why do I think that way? Why not try this? Maybe I'll see better results or maybe I'll learn something new about my body. And so I did, and I tell you what, my body responded unbelievably to ketogenic. I noticed huge difference in inflammation. I noticed satiety. I didn't get these cravings that I was having before. I was getting lean easy. I was eating fats and enjoying these great foods. What were your macros, do you remember?

Okay, so when I first did it, I wasn't getting enough fat. And I actually, my body was like, this doesn't feel right, I was getting headaches, I felt really tired, but didn't feel right at all. And I remember telling Sal, right? I was like, I don't know about this, for a lot of, it doesn't feel right for my body. He's like, well, where are your fats at?

He's like, you know what? Maybe you need to try pushing them up. He's like, that's about where my fats and you were eating so many carbs, you probably just need more fuel and you're not giving your body enough. And I said, okay, so I did, I did adjust. I was eating 400 grams of fat.

So between 350, four. Remember, I'm a 235 pound men's physique. My metabolism is roaring, right? so if you're busy mom working That's 110 do not yes, yeah, I have to yes, I always get it's dragging your ass all over the world And I know people right away are like oh, that's insane But I needed to because 200 was not enough right was not enough with that low of car eating under 50 grams of carbohydrates And under that for my body and what I was doing to it at the time as far as training, no way. So I pushed it up to about 400 grams of fats.

My proteins were about 120 to 150 on the high end of protein, grams of protein, and then a carbohydrates I was trying to stay under 50. And all I saw, all these amazing results from the ketogenic diet. Now, I didn't stay ketogenic forever. I, in fact, I now probably eat a diet that's kind of paleoesque, I would say, even though we don't try and label

any way of eating it right. You basically just eat foods without labels. Right. Right, exactly. And, you know, and I'm not really counting your pay attention, I allow myself definitely to have carbohydrates. I probably eat about 150 to 200 grams of carbs now. But that's a huge difference from a guy

that was eating 600. So it completely altered the way I looked at food. And so what I took from that, instead of saying, oh, ketogenic did all these things for me. It was like, why? I don't, what did I do different? Well, I noticed that the lower carbohydrates definitely brought down the inflammation in me the higher fats

Oh, I noticed things scan hair my psoriasis was doing his cognition at all. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah Focus on that we do podcasting every day. So I have great ways to measure this stuff and you know I'll lose train of thought sometimes and man I was way sharper than I'd ever been and I felt that and it was a major difference and so But what what I, what was so great and what we ended up talking about on the show, because as soon as we shared this, all of a sudden everybody started going ketogenic.

And I remember telling the boys off air, I said, listen, we need to make sure that this doesn't turn into the diet of mind pump. We're not okay with that. Dietary dog mind. Right, right. So we have some great episodes back around the time around when we're talking about ketogenic lot, because Sal and I would kind of go at it back and

forth and I was kind of coming from the carbohydrate side and we and we had good discussion and so people can hear both sides and we both agreed on that yeah this is not for everybody and the takeaways from this is to learn about the macronutrients and what it did for my body. And so now I'm just more aware. Now, you know, my beginning of my day is basically coffee and lots of fats. I never use, I was an oatmeal and protein guy. Like that was how I started every... Oatmeal and egg whites.

Yes, absolutely. That was a staple meal for me. And it worked well. It worked well. I felt good. I had a great workout because I'd have energy from my car behind me because after that, I'd be hungry again in two hours. So I'd feel up again.

And then by new time, I'm having an awesome workout. So I was everything in my life seemed pretty damn dialed in and good. And I think to myself, wow, how many people feel like that? And because of that, never really get the chance to understand what a different macro profile might look for them and will help it officially. Or the other spectrum I saw, because I saw such great results from the keto gym diet. How many people now marry themselves to this again dogma of, oh, it's the keto ginic wave.

Get the fuck out of here. It's not that. It's because you probably started eating more real foods. Got rid of all this processed carbohydrates. You can't eat shit when you're eating keto. It's expensive, it's very myopic. Like there's a certain way of eating. When you're doing that.

Now let's talk about the keto flu. I'm curious about this because I tried it you guys. It didn't work for me. I'm APOE34. So for the people listening, there's different ways that our body process is fat, specifically saturated fats. So I'm at 34, I don't process saturated fat efficiently, like an APOE1 or APOE2.

Yeah, so Keto is truly... You took a test up on that out there. I took a test, I did my 23 and me, I had a sequence by Prometheus and they give you really actionable stuff. It's awesome, we'll link down in the description. And here's the thing you want to consider, there definitely are some general rules with nutrition, like don't overeat, don't eat too many processed foods,

you know, that kind of stuff. But when you get down to the specifics, the individual variants can be quite dramatic from person to person. So I'm going to ask you a question. Before you took that test, how did you feel going keto? I didn't feel good. Exactly. And this is the problem.

The data back to my feelings. The data, sometimes people want that data, but why don't you, you know, people just listen to your body, because I got messages from people. 100%. I would get, we would talk about keto, and I'd get messages from people like, oh my God, I feel so great. Oh, the video.

But then we get messages from people who are like, Sal, I've been trying keto for a month. I can't, I don't poop every day. I have low energy, I feel terrible. How long until I start feeling good? And I'm like, stop going keto. It's not working for you. Listen to your body and switch.

The other thing you want to consider is the humans evolved during periods of famine, during periods of feeding, during the seasons when, here's the thing, if we're in fruit and fruit reasons for reason. If we're hunter-gatherers, and there's all these plants that we can eat, guess what we're gonna eat? The plants, why? Because hunting is expensive and dangerous. It takes a lot of energy and we may die. If there's no plants, guess what we're gonna do to survive. We're gonna kill some animals and we're

gonna eat the hell out of them. And so humans had this variety and did all these different things. You know, I'll tell you what, one of the shocking things that I say, and I say shocking because people, like when I, the first time I said it, remember I get messages from people like I can't believe you're saying that is I would tell the muscle building world To have a vegan day go low protein once a week and they're like how could you possibly talk about that? You lose muscle the funny thing is the science actually supports that your body becomes De-sensitized to anything that you hammer it with all the time, including protein. To the point where more of your protein gets turned into energy and less of it gets used for muscle. But if you go low protein every once in a while,

you'll find when you go back to your higher protein diet, boom, you get those results back. And it's good for you. It's good for you. You have similar benefits that you get from fasting and so reason why we talk about that all the time. That's right. So Keto, here's the thing, especially with saturated fats,

there's polymorphisms that if you eat a diet that's high in saturated fat, I don't care. It could be as healthy as you want it to be. You're going to have blood lipid numbers that are not going to look good. The polymorphism that you have is one of those. So you could eat keto perfectly. You'll go to the doctor, you'll get your cholesterol checked, you'll get your triglycerides checked.

Yeah. And they're going to be all over the place. And really, all you need to do if you want to stay keto is change your fatty acid profile or get out of keto and eat some more carbohydrates or maybe eat more of a plant-based type of diet. Well, let's explore this because there's exogenous ketones like companies out there. And my opinion of exogenous ketones, it's almost like if you have a bad ankle, you consistently wear a brace You eventually have to get the ankle strong. Do we really need to always have these exogenous ketones coming in?

But that's how it's sold in the space. Oh, of course, right? You need ketones every day. You guys like let's go back here for a moment Think about it this way if you're if you're the fitness industry if you're a supplement We called this about a hundred and fifty episodes. We actually said this will have four singles supplement. This is first for wellness for us. So let's really unpack this. Okay, so you can. You can go way back in our library and find this when we first heard about keto-geneing, and we experienced it. We did it. The very first thing, and we do this on the show as much as we can for our audience. So we like to predict things. Yeah, so we look like we're probably so we showed them. We told them all about the the good right? This is the benefits. This is why you feel benefits

This is there's drawbacks. This is why it's challenging because nothing I don't like about you. It's hard Like I caught myself I if I really would add would look back and looked at my my choices of foods You know when you when you get into every single day like you know I started looking and going man. I'm eating a lot of the same foods. Yeah, I'm thinking of a cotto, macadamia, and other things. Because, yeah, they're good foods. I like them and there's benefits to them, but it's the same foods. And I know I'm missing out a lot of micronutrients that I was kind of naturally getting when I was rotating through other foods.

So we called this out as soon as we did this one thing, we said, you know, what? You know, what's coming next, right? We're going to see someone attach some sort of supplements that they'll attach to getting you into ketosis because they're gonna sell the ketosis part of this because there's where the benefits are, right? Just like in fasting, when we're fasted, there's a lot of stuff going on very similar

to what goes on when you actually take out all these carbohydrates in your diet. So we're gonna take that, we're gonna attach ourselves to the science, a supplement will come out to help that insure as shit. here we are today, went that. And the thing that drives me crazy about it is now we are really getting ridiculous and splitting hairs over something.

Yes, ketogenic diet is good. Yes, it's good to be in ketosis. Should you be, do you need to take a powder to get there, to max, to get there sooner or faster or more efficiently than you were before. What are we talking about in the grand scheme of things? You're overall health or whatever your fitness gets. Yeah, I mean, splitting hair.

Yeah, and you know what, again, when it comes to supplementing with ketones, there's definitely some performance benefits that can come from it. Just like there's performance benefits from supplementing. Yeah, but what are you doing? What are you doing as trying to be an athlete, right? Trying to be an athlete messing around with being ketogenic all the time. Yeah, no. But you guys, most people that are on the ketogenic plan,

I would say 90% are people that want to let go of old weights. The athletes are dialed in. Like they're using the ketones and everything, but most people just want to like lose the body. No, exogenous ketones. And they get sold into that program. Like take these ketones and you lose weight and that could not be further from the truth.

No, ketones actually add calories. So if you're taking ketones, ketones have calories. Will they suppress your appetite? Maybe they might help suppress your appetite a little bit, but then again, you're looking for an external source of an appetite suppressant. We need to talk about appetite. If we can get it, I'd love to get into that for a second.

None of us, most people don't know what it really feels like to be hungry. Let's just be honest, the average person has never gone without food for longer than a day, and that was maybe when they were sick. So this whole appetite suppression thing, really it's not your appetite, you're not really hungry. It's probably emotional, it's anxiety or boredom. So taking something to suppress your appetite, not really a good idea anyway. And I mean, performance benefits, I can see that. I only see it as if you were a dialed-in athlete,

and you love, like, let's say, Spartan, where we're at, you love this, and you, and you've got everything else, right, you're ketogenic, and you just happen to be an endurance athlete, because that's not ideal, right? If you're in it, we all know that if you're an endurance athlete, it's not necessarily ideal. Well, super hard.

For everybody. It's challenging to shift the energy source. Right. Right. So, and it still would be more beneficial for that athlete to do cyclical to where and actually still you look, because even when we talk to what's his face, who's a ketogenic athlete, he still uses carbohydrates when he's

training. Oh, yeah. The exact, the exact bitter, who's the ultra marihondra. He's got 100 mile, he's a record holder. He cycles because everyone gets to cycle. You can't eat the same weight forever as an excess. It's a great idea, because this again, this is how we evolved, to train your body

or at least let it go through the process of switching energy sources, going without food. But this you can apply on the grand scheme of things you can apply to allowing your body to adjust to temperature contrasts, allowing your body to adjust to different forms of activity. This is just how the body thrives. It thrives on this kind of variety.

And you can get very specific and very focused, but you're gonna definitely give up some other things by doing that. Well, let's talk about adaptation because you had an incredible transformation. In your Instagram, I was like, this can't be the same person. Adam, I don't know how much weight you lost

or how much muscle you gained, but you literally went from somebody that looked like they were managing a Taco Bell to somebody that was like a perfect V that was on a stage, Tandon smiling, like, what the hell, did you do that? Oh, thanks for all that love right there.

It did take me a little bit long. Did you manage to talk about them? No, I did not. I did not manage to talk about. You actually managed. The cool part, so the whole thing, and we, you know, Sal shared his self-awareness journey of like we were, he said we were very similar

is we had this insecurity of being the skinny guy forever. And I actually never in my life trained to lose body fat until I was 30 years old. Wow, my whole life was dedicated to getting bigger. How much hope and inspiration does it give to somebody listening right now? Oh, love and change in any age. Oh yeah, absolutely.

My whole life I was focused on getting bigger. I was never big enough and I was always carrying that insecurity of being skinny or too small. And the only reason why I did was, I took a two year hiatus from fitness, and I didn't fully because I was still managing a boot camp business that I had running, but I put a lot of my energy and focus

into an opportunity that I had in the cannabis industry, and I was offered a position to oversee multiple locations and be the first of this way. So I was a part of the first two cannabis clubs in the Bay Area. And so I took a hiatus for financial reasons. It was a great opportunity for me to make some money. And I was so much that as much as I was passionate about fitness, I was like, I would be a fool to not do this.

It's satisfying Mozillaas triangle for sure. Yes, I mean, you're there. We understand. So that's what happened. And during that time, I was 100% focused on money. I was running my managing my bootcamp business and occasionally working out and eating like shit. I was eating because I was working 16 hour long days.

And I mean, I was eating garbage. It fast food, everything. And I just didn't really care because I was working 16 hour long days and I mean I was eating garbage, it fast food, everything. And I just didn't really care because I wasn't, well I didn't think I was really getting fat because I had never been big enough. And actually I was holding some decent weight. I was like, oh, I was holding around 200. It's always been hard for me to be over 200.

So okay, I'm okay with this. So it didn't even phase me, didn't even think about it. But meanwhile, and Katrina will share stories of, you know, she remembers watching just the way, my confidence, way I carry myself, the way I talk, being naked in our bedroom together so that versus turning the lights off thing, getting naked, doing things like that,

which is not like me. I'm the guy who walks around brushes his teeth naked in front of his girl, that type of deal. It's true, I've shared a hotel room with her. Horrible. So this is going on, right? And I'll never forget laying in bed next to her and I reach over my side to scratch my side and I actually feel my belly. I never had felt it laying on my side to where I had enough body fat to actually

hang like that. I never felt that. Never in my life. And I never, I remember feeling it and going like, whoa, wow, I'm actually kind of fat. Like that was weird. I've always been skinny, you always try to be bigger. Never once ever thought about fat. Never been called fat in my life. Never thought I was fat in my life. And I was like, hey, I might be kind of fat.

And then I kind of, I remember looking at myself in the mirror going like, shit, I don't, and then I took a picture. And I hadn't taken a picture of myself in a really, really long time. Was that the Instagram picture? Yes. No. So it inspired, and at this time too,

so there's a lot going on, so kind of give the backstory a little bit so everyone understands. I'd been in marijuana for a while now, it started up these clubs, made good money, did really well and stuff like that, but really was not fulfilled. And I thought that if I was, you know, their financially that I would have been, and that

was also a great moment for me of learning about myself and money and all that shit because I was now in a position where I thought if I was there, I would be complete. And I wasn't. I was very incomplete, probably some of the most incomplete times of my life. And I remember realizing like, whoa, like I most incomplete times of my life. And I remember realizing, like, whoa, like I miss health and fitness a lot. And I was like, you know what, I'm coming back, I'm coming back and I'm gonna do it right. Because now I'm in a position where I have enough money that I can just focus on what I want to do and not what I need to do to get by and bring the bills.

So I wasn't a fortunate position now that I created for myself to pursue fitness again and I happened to be fat or felt fat and I wouldn't got my body fat tested. I was 19.9% body fat and I'd never seen anything near even close to that. I was 213 pounds I believe and I was like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do. I am going to, and what motivated me was, when I was a trainer in my early 20s, I was always the skinny or the buff got ripped lean guy. Clients used to tell me that,

oh, you don't know what it's like to be fat. It's weight, and it's totally different for us. I used to hate that. I'm trying to give them knowledge, and we're arguing, but they're kind of right. Like, I've never experienced that, so I can't completely relate to them. Although I thought I was smart enough to express it. And so I've got people telling me that. And for the first time in my life, I was about to, you know, I was a guy who felt fat trying to lean out. So I was

going to be able to connect to those people. I'm now in my 30s clients. You still always say to me, oh, you're so young. Like, you know see what happens in your 30s, my friends. You'll see what happens in your 30s. So I'm like, perfect timing for me to show these people what's up. Like show, and again, this is me, the chip on my shoulder, I've always trying to prove myself. And here I am, I'm going to show the world that I know what the fuck I'm talking about. And I'm going to take you, I'm going to take myself, and that was what I said. So I'm going to take myself, I was documented, it did a video. So I'm going about and I'm gonna take you, I'm gonna take myself and that was what I said. So I'm gonna take myself, I documented it, did a video.

So I'm gonna take myself from the worst shape of my life and I'm going to the best shape of my life. And let me tell you, I've been a trainer, so I've been in good shape. I'm gonna go to a level I've never been before. And so for me, that was anything sub 8% body fat. So the goal was anything below that. And I began documenting it on YouTube

and sharing my journey and kind of walking people through the right way to do this process. And the goal was to show everybody, I'm not going to move the scale very much. I'm going to hover around this 213 pounds and I'm going to show you a totally different physique with right around that way. And I ended up, I think, two pounds different. So, wow. So, if I were to listen to, like, throw the scale away,

because so many people get caught up in that dogma, but I gotta ask you, man, like, motivation, inspiration, what you did, like, motivation wouldn't have been enough. You had to have had a deeper fire of inspiration. So, what was that? Then now you're dipping into the business side of me, the vision piece of what I was trying to do.

I was trying to accomplish something by showing all this to. So, at around this time, and Taylor is no longer in the room here now, but our video guy, we have a connection that goes all the way back to him being in his early 20s and me being around 27 or 8. And he was on my inner mural basketball team. And I never met him before. We already have mutual friends.

And this kid had all this flexibility with his time. And I at that time was making really good money in the marijuana business. So I had all kinds of flexibility. And he was always in the gym when I was in the middle of the week and had always a new pair. I'm a sneaker guy. He had always new sneakers on, drive a nice car.

I knew he was a really good kid too. So I knew he wasn't doing drugs, selling drugs, or something. He was like, what does this kid do? And I remember I asked him on one day and he goes, I sell clothes and things to my Facebook following. He goes, yeah, I have a business I built off of Facebook. We can e-commerce, right? And I'm like, I have heard of people doing this at this time, but I never met somebody. You know, actually that it was successful,

like making, and it was me a good living, like making good money. And I was like, man, can we get lunch? And he's like, yeah, absolutely. So we set up a date, we go have lunch, and we sit down and he shared his whole thing and it's process. And to give the audience what he did

that I thought was so brilliant was, if you're a sneakerhead, you will totally understand this. I'll try and make it easy for those that are not. When you got rare shoes, like a pair of Jordan 7s, people like me love those shoes are willing to pay more than the retail price to find them because they're so rare.

And there's somebody out there that has them in a nice box and is never worn because they know that. And so Taylor was a guy that had lots of connections in that industry and he put people together like me where he said, hey, you know, Josh over here has a pair of Jordan sevens. He hasn't run sale for, or he'll sell them for $300, you know, and he would connect us. He's a broker, right? A shoe broker. A shoe brokerage. A shoe brokerage for rare type of sneakers. And I had already known this exists business existed.

And I knew that it was a lucrative business for some people that were good at it. But what he did that I thought was brilliant and ahead of his time and a visionary was, he instead of just doing that and making a 50 bucks or a hundred bucks on every shoe transaction, he actually did make any money. He just was the guy who connected everybody.

And so everybody wanted to use him. He wasn't making any money, and he didn't make any money at first. But he built a community of people that were all into the same shit, and then he pivoted over and created a line of clothes and air fresheners and key chains and sweaters and hoodies and i mean a whole thing e-commerce business off of this ten thousand people following him on facebook

and i was so impressed and so fascinated by that that i was it because i finally met somebody who did it and i like and i and i got why it worked so well and why so many people nowadays fail at building these businesses because they thought the same way I used to think which is you turn on your Facebook, your Instagram, and you have a business, so you promote your business, you have another area or way to do that, and that couldn't be further from the truth. You know, this is our, your social media is a place

where people can get better connected to you, And you want to gather as many people, like minded people, as you possibly can. And from there, you can offer a place where someone can go and make money. And the smart way to do that would be using funnels. The podcast represents a funnel. If I have your attention for an hour to two hours, that is our ability to communicate our message.

And from there, if you like what we have to say, and you believe in what we have to say, there's a good chance you might want to purchase something that we offer. And so I saw that in Taylor was blowing away by that model, and I was on a mission too. So when I switched on Facebook Instagram, I turned it on with the intention to build a big business off.

That was the deeper fire. Like you were going to transform and show people that was possible and you knew that that external framework would drive you. You're such an obliged, you're like me, man. You want to disturb other people by your transformation. Like that was the real current underneath this. Was that the biggest transformation

you've ever experienced in your life? Oh yeah, that was for sure or physically, for sure. I've definitely had bigger mental ones absolutely, but that was And it did a lot. It did a lot of it made me a way better coach. It taught me a lot I mean because you actually could be in those shoes. Yeah, man I mean, I always right and I'm the guy out of all of us for sure I talk about the tracking all the time right? I'm the big fan of the Fitbit I'm the guy who loves fat secret app and I'm always telling people you gotta track you just gotta do it Think of it like fucking school you gotta get it out of the way after that whatever but I think at one

Just to make connect that and because I know all the Schooling and books and and time I've spent in this field and how much it still broke through to me and I'm like I got 10 years in this industry, all kinds of certifications and experience and brilliant minds I've been around. And it still broke through to me because I finally disciplined myself to really track and then evaluate how I was feeling, how my body was changing. And once I did that, it gave me a power that I have now that makes staying in shape almost mindless and easy.

Man, it's almost unfair. I knew a little bit about your story, but thanks for sharing all those deeper nuances. I did not know that really it was the business that you wanted to show people that transformation was possible. That was the whole ethos behind really. Do you feel all three of you, do you feel like that might have been the current below all three of you's mission? Was your transformation? Like you started it and then you guys caught the fire as well. Well, when we first started Mind Pump, we had really no

social media presence except for Adam's social media presence on Instagram, which at the time was about 20,000 followers, not a huge amount, but was enough to give us a little bit of a boost. But I remember, I mean, I get on the phone because I didn't really know, I had never really met Adam and Justin before, Mind Pump. I'd known of them because we were all top performers at 25 fitness. So I'd heard their names and we all had mutual friends. But I remember, I would talk to Adam through social media and he would tell me like dude you gotta get on Instagram

This is what you gotta do. This is how you build a following and I just you know I didn't listen I didn't listen like I don't care. I don't care and you know fast forward We start mind pumping. It's like thank God. He had that little bit of a following. Yes, because it gave us a little bit of You know a little momentum when we first got started But even with even with the show mind pump, you know when first started the show, we didn't monetize for an entire year. Our goal was really to provide, and it still is, our goal is the same, to provide as much free quality content as possible to the point where the audience, they value it so much that either A, they want to buy your product.

When we first turned it on, I'll never forget that. And that felt good. And that I remember was like we were doing this right, was when we did finally say, okay, here's the program that we have to sell and offer. The people that were all buying it was like, we were getting all this feedback. Like, I don't even care what's in it.

I, you guys have changed my life so much. I'll buy whatever you guys are selling. I'll buy whatever you sell because I feel like I owe you so much. And I was like, I don't even care what's in it. You guys have changed my life so much. I'll buy whatever you guys are selling. I'll buy whatever you sell because I feel like I owe you so much. And I was like, fuck yes. This is so powerful for all the coaches and trainers listening. I can't tell you, like, probably not a day goes by where somebody doesn't message me and they say, how did you get to where you are? How do you get into podcasting?

How do you create what I, you have to give. You have to give and give and give and give. And really, my question to both you guys is, in the beginning, were you giving without wanting anything back? Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, we knew that this could eventually turn into a business somehow. But if you start out with that, it's disingenuous.

It is. And really, we, and that's the thing. Like, when we first sat down, when all of us sat down for the first time, when we really first met for the first time, we must have talked with each other for four hours non-stop. We all have that much passion with what we were doing, with what we wanted to change. And the underlying theme was integrity. I remember we sat there and we said to it, you know, we all talked amongst each other and we're like, okay, well, if this turns into a business, how are we going to monetize? What's this going to turn into?

And I remember all of us thinking like, well, we're going to have to figure out a way because we don't want to sell any supplements. We don't like most supplement companies. We don't like what how the fitness industry makes money. We're not going to do any of that. We're not going to do the get fit quick, you know, type programs or show the before and afters. And this is what you can do in three weeks or we don't want to do any of that because we knew it was bullshit

and so we knew it would be kind of a hard hard struggle if we were to turn this into a business so really initially it was just making an impact and and and growing our audience and really here you know he there's a huge misconception with people who get into business in the social media world and they think that they need to have millions of millions of followers yeah to really people are living for themselves and they think that they need to have millions of millions of followers to

80 people. A living for themselves. Now of course if you have millions of followers that's easy. You've got tons and tons of volume but that's extremely rare and it's probably not gonna happen but if you can impact a few thousand people in a real genuine way you've created yourself a nice living but in order to do that you have to impact them. Well there was very genuine way. There was some brilliance behind behind what we did too with the programming, right? Because we also knew. So we knew that we couldn't attach ourselves to all these people, and we knew that it would

take, if we once we got companies like, for example, coming, I love that we're talking to right now, or we're dealing with his thrive market, and I absolutely love that company, but that company would never touch us when we were tiny and small Maybe they're way bigger than that right? So we knew that that we can't think like that like result like we okay That's the mission like grow this podcast and then get companies like that that may never happens We have to be realistic with that what can we do to make money? That we that I think that we can actually sustain this business until that time happens and we looked at programming because we're like

Man, you know what the there's so many programs that are all over the place and there was no good Like legit exercise programming probably because the guys that are selling the most of it They're looking to they're looking at the selling points, which are intensity excitement and you know like lots of marketing novelty novelty novelty novelty exact and let me tell you novelty is kind of like the disease of the fitness It really is so true and I tell you what and I'm not gonna put the name the guy buddy of ours on blast But we have a good friend of ours who is a

Cover of a magazine model and very, very successful guy and he did it in the fitness industry and he did it through making a name for himself and selling programs online. And I remember when we first got together and we're doing business together and him talk and this is why things we didn't go for was because we just didn't see eye to eye. He looked at programming in the fitness industry like ice cream and everybody had their own flavor. And we looked at programming very scientifically and thought we're really giving the wrong

message to most people and we're trying to bedazzle everybody so much and wow them that we're not teaching them the fundamentals on the things that really are going to change their life. Because the clients that I actually changed, which by the way, 80% of our clients don't, if we're being honest, most people don't reach their goals and they fail. So the 20% what was common to those? I got them to do the basics really well.

I got that land for everyone listening. Like what Adam just said, like that is the ultimate truth. Right. And we knew that was missing big time in programming because the guys that were selling the most programs were the ones that had the novelty. Like, whoa, I'd never done that exercise combined with that exercise and holy crowd that kicked my ass.

Those guys are making millions right now. So we saw that as a huge opportunity. They're making millions of dollars, but are they helping people lose billions of pounds? No, no, no, no, no. Maybe temporarily, but definitely not long-term. No. And it's a terrible exercise program. Look, I'll tell you what, our most popular program is a one-year bundle of exercise programming. We literally tell people we're not going to

sell you a get fit in 38-program. We refuse to do it. Our programs are each of them are, if you do an individual one, between three to four months long. And the most popular one we have is a years long worth of exercise program where you phase your body through different workouts and progress your body. And we imagine trying to sell that in the fitness industry. Hey man, you want to get in shape? Yes. It's going to take you a year.

No marketing agency. I got a wedding coming up in three months. Exactly. Exactly. And that's the thing. That was the big common thing when the three of us sat down, we were like, we are not gonna compromise our integrity. We're not gonna sell bullshit.

And we bet that the market would respond well because the consumers more informed today, and they've heard a lot of the bullshit long enough to where maybe our message can come through. Well, and then it seems like it is. And the proof is in the pudding because there's not one person in the eye we have met yet that has truly followed it to a tea and not been blown away.

And what they're blown away is by the simplicity of what you mean I'm work, you want me to work out less than I've ever worked out before. What you mean I only do that many exercises? What? And you want me to stop two reps of failure? Like that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, everybody tells me I need to beat myself up. I need to just follow it. Just follow it and be true to it

and just watch what happens. Well, we'll link your program in the show notes because I actually have an chance to check it out. Yeah, I would love to check it out. Okay, we'll give you a discount. And on top of that, that's not it. Then show me how to do bicep curls.

So one thing I wanna talk about those we wind down, man, is the emotional part of this. Because yes, people need to know the core pillars of movement and recovery and breath working things like that. But what about the emotional intelligence piece? This is big, not only for wellness force, but for mind-pump, because look, if we're gonna give people information that works,

they can't just know, they have to do. There is a gap. How do you guys fill the gap between knowing and doing? So we just finished a nutrition guide that talks about this because when you can get to the root of these issues that people have with nutrition, you can solve the problem. If you don't get to the root, you'll never have a solution, you'll have temporary fixes that resultant you get on an off-throw agon. I'm getting leaner and I'm gaining way and this problem that people tend to have. When it comes to nutrition, it's important to look at the

different stages of learning that you move through with nutrition. Now, before I get into those, to level awareness like anything else. It is. And I want to, and before we get into this, it's important to understand this fact right here. The best coach you will ever find to get you into optimal health, long term forever, stress-free with no anxiety, with no, it's just living, and you're just fucking awesome, you're lean, you're mobile, you've got muscle, you feel incredible, is your own body.

There is no coach on earth that comes with the signaling system that your body naturally evolved with. Now, I know a lot of people listening right now are thinking themselves, well, if that's the case, then why is everybody so messed up? Why does everybody have so many problems? And I'll tell you why. We've been trained to not hear those things. We have been trained to ignore these signals.

We have been taught to ignore them. To such a point that we don't even know how to listen to the signals, let alone listen to the signals when they pop up. First of all, we're taught when we're children, clean your plate, ignore that, that you don't like this, especially in the Italian family. Especially in your personal. Oh, I experienced that. Right, that's you were disrespectful if you didn't clean up.

Yes, we are taught that foods are good or bad. We're taught to eat foods based on emotion. We're marketed to this way heavily. I love to use the example of the movie theaters. We all crave popcorn. We're at the movies. Otherwise, nobody eats popcorn. Why? We've been conditioned to associate the same thing with the diamond ring and marriage. Absolutely. That was debirst. That's a whole nother pod. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know that you're, a couple of times I've been meaning to tell you

this stat. Did you know that I believe in the 70s that and that they actually pushed the boundaries so far on that and that they actually made laws and they can't do this anymore, but they're used to in the films. They do quick flashes of the poor. I've heard of this. Yes. That used to be subconscious product place. Yes, so we're all fucked up. So we're all super conditioned. And on top of it, consider this. If you look at all of the money that's put into food, in the market of food, most of it goes to two places. Very, very little goes to nutrition

and how good it is for you. Very little. Most of it goes to palatability and marketing. That's it. Palatability and marketing. So let's talk about palatability for a second. What makes a food extremely palatable? Well, we have access to flavors, textures, smells, colors, in combination to the point where so much money and engineering has gone into foods that they've literally learned had hijack your body's natural systems of satiety and we've all experienced them. We've all eaten that big savory meal of sticky potato.

Imagine if we actually looked at something before we opened it, like especially with a sentence box or a package that and before you ate it, you thought to yourself like, this was engineered to hack my system. This is engine someone made this to get me to eat more of it. So think of it. To manipulate me. So here's Lay's potato chips that you can't eat just one. Absolutely.

So that's there for a reason. They're just calling it out. That's what's great. They're like, hey, we're down in gangster. They are hijacking you. They're so bitch. Lay's is so gangster that they made their slogan, guess what?

It's not. We're gonna take advantage of you. And there's nothing to do about it. Yes. And I got a lot of respect for a company like that. Like if you're gonna do to take advantage of you. There's nothing to do about it. I got a lot of respect for a company like that. Like, if you're going to do it, I told you. At least they're being honest about it. And it's not a conspiracy.

It's not nefarious. They're just trying to get more market share. But we've all experienced this. We've eaten the big savory meal. We're super stuffed. I can't eat anymore. But then dessert comes out. It's something sweet that hijacks your body's natural systems

of satiety. And now you can eat more. Food competitors know this. So food is engineered to do this. So that completely fucks with our systems. We've never known, we don't know what hunger really feels like because nobody ever goes without food for longer than breakfast to lunch or whatever. In fact, people will skip a meal and you hear people saying things, I get so irritable,

I get so hungry. That's not true. It's because you're conditioned to eat at lunch time. So we don't know what hunger feels I can there's a lot more of that goes to this in fact the guy talks a lot about this So if you can learn to start to read the signals which by the way is a long process of awareness But if you can learn to read these signals and then learn to connect with them You will enter into a state where you will eat just the way you eat, which I love to interrupt him always right here

and tell people that hear that because a lot of people get so excited, you go like, that's for me. It's a long process. That's what I want, where do I buy this? And that is not what the message that we're delivering is because it is a process. It's the practice.

And I tell him all the time because sometimes that he says things so casually and I go, bro, you are so far ahead of so many people that things that you think is so easy and basic. You got to make sure you you preface that with listen. This is there's levels of awareness and it steps to get there. But ultimately, that's what you want to be. If you don't mind, I'll give you basic step by step.

So here's basic step by step way to get you to this place. You're going to go back on fourth a lot and it's going to take a long time, but this is a very, very easy way or a very basic way to kind of move yourself through the process. So first thing is become more mindful around the times that you eat. So no distractions, sit down, don't drink fluids with your food, so you have to chew it. Think about how you feel before. In fact, you need to write down how you feel before, during and after, it sounds like a pain in the ass, but we're going to take you from unconscious

and competence to conscious and competence. You need to know what you don't know. So take those notes, write them down, make eating a very mindful practice. And this is the tracking piece and why it's important. And then start to track. So like Adam's saying, then track your proteins your fats your carbohydrates start taking notes of how you feel your body weight hunger irritability your skin your stool all these different things it's start to connect

the foods that you eat the macros that you eat in the calories that you eat to these things and here's what happens from that if I really like let's say I like every morning I have to have my my bagel like that's just my fucking food and we all know this is trainers, we'll tell our client, take this food out and it's like we told them to cut their arm off. Right. I have to have my bagel. Well, if I, and I'm, but I'm, I'm an unaware of how the bagels making me feel. Most people are like this. Well, if I start to connect the dots and I realize, holy crap, every time I get bagel, I'm ahargic, and irritable, and I get constipated

every single time. What ends up happening is you start to make an association with that bagel, and you stop liking it as much. It stops becoming a food that you crave. Now the reverse can be said for foods that are healthy for you that you may not think you like, like broccoli, like, oh, I don't really like broccoli. But let's say you start eating it, you become more mindful around it, and you notice, I feel really good. My digestion is really good. My energy is really good when I eat broccoli. But let's say you start eating it, you become more mindful around it and you notice I feel really good. My digestion is really good. My energy is really good when

I eat broccoli. You start making those associations and the food industry has already done this but they do this with their marketing. So it's a proven fact that this works. Next thing you know, I'm craving broccoli, I really enjoy it. So this is how you get to the process of eating in a way that truly nourishes your body. And then what you do is you take that tracking and you start to give yourself parameters. I'm going to eat this mini grams of protein, this mini grams of fat, this mini grams of carbs. These are my calories. And you work through this process.

This is a long process. You're going to be here for a while. Once you get comfortable with that and you really know what's in food and you really understand grams of proteins, fats, carbohydrates, how I feel, what's going on, now it's time to transition out of that tracking phase into what I call the intuitive phase. And the way you do that is you take away days of tracking. So Mondays, I'm not gonna track in the sense that I'm not gonna go for targets,

I'm still gonna pay attention and write down what I'm eating, but I'm gonna eat whatever I feel. And at this point, what you're probably gonna experience is a period of binging. This is when people tend to go think they're off the wagon, like, oh, I'm not tracking. I don't have to track anymore. And they go off.

And that's okay. Which flies in the face of tracking the first place. Cause I do wanna point out to people, like you're talking about sharpening an intuitive sword here, my friends. Absolutely. And sharpening that sword takes time. So let's breathe into the fact that this is going to activate

the parts of our brain that deal with not instant gratification. That's right. But long term delayed gratification. So let's breathe into the fact that this is going to activate the parts of our brain that do with not instant gratification, but long-term delayed gratification. So I have an idea. My experience is a big piece. We get to swallow here. And so you're going to feel like you're going off and on the wagon, that's fine. Pay attention. Be mindful. But little by little, you'll be able to add intuitive days. And sometimes you have to take them away and go back to tracking. But over a period, and I've experienced this with clients, it's anywhere between depending on the individual, six months to a couple years if they're consistent with this practice. Well, they get to a point where eating is much more intuitive. And what I mean by that is you will start to feed yourself in a way that truly nourishes

the entire body. And I'm going to give one more example because people think that means you're going to eat perfect. Not true. That means when I'm at a function with my friends, and we're all connecting, we're connecting with each other. And right now, I'm feeding my emotional self. I'm feeding the connections.

I'm feeding this part of me inside of me that has nothing to do with nutrition and nutrients and proteins, that's a car body. But it needs its fuel. I might drink a little alcohol. I might enjoy the pizza. And I'm not gonna feel guilt to your bad about it because I know I'm nourishing my body. And you have this very balanced way of living

that is without stress and without anxiety. And that's the ultimate goal. And that, I truly believe the only way to have true longevity with nutrition that doesn't involve stress and guilt and fear and all that other shit. Man, I have to reflect on this and for everyone listening like pause right now, go back 15 minutes, listen to that whole thing again because it's the long term approach that

really wins. When I was 280, I tried probably four times you guys to lose weight as fast as possible. And you know what happened? It came back with interest every single time. And the only way I finally just like let it go was by just saying to myself, I don't care how long this takes, I'm just committed to figuring out how I actually can do it. And I think that's the mindset that people get to have. The tools are important. But like, let's pre-frame getting the tools with just like surrendering to the process here.

Now, I want to wrap up because we could probably record the entire day. Because I love you. I love doing this with you guys. Love you too, Ron. The one question that I always ask guests and this is cool because you're at the stage in your life where technically people in their mid-30s, late-30s, early-40s, the hormones are not really on their side. And society says, well, this is the time

when you start looking at medications and worrying about everything, how would you define real wellness in your life? Like what does real wellness mean to you? I, you know, real wellness may mean something from different from person to person, or at least that may look different from person to person, but what it means to me is peace.

When you, when you have true wellness, you feel at peace. You don't feel a super hyper excited, manic, you don't feel depressed and shitty, you just feel good, you feel good in your skin. You're comfortable with the way you feel, the way you look is kind of an afterthought. You've got good relationships with your friends and family.

You know when it's time to meditate, you know when it's time to kick ass in the gym. It's just a state of being that feels very peaceful. And I've only met one person in my life that I think exemplifies that on all aspects. And he's a 55 year old, he's the Godfather wellness, Paul check and meeting him, meeting him really, really solidified that for me.

When I met him and I saw him and I saw how he was and he just is who he is and he's very, and he's deadlifts 400 pounds, but then he's, you know, he does, you know, he paints and meditates and he's got crystals and then he reads biology books and writes patents for... We've talked about Czech many times. And he just exemplifies it and the thing that I got from him

wasn't necessarily what he did. Like, I don't think that's what wellness is gonna look like for me. Right. But I could see how it felt. And he was very calm with himself and very peaceful and very comfortable in his own skin. And that's what I think wellness is. Man, that was so powerful.

It's the resilience really. Like Paul has gone through a lot of changes. He's an old dog in a new kind of digital fitness world. So he's adapting, but yet whenever I see him online, he just did a two part series on what the what the health movie is so calm. Even when he articulates, it's peace, man. It's always from a place of peace.

Yes. What does what is wellness mean to you? So it's very similar to Sal as far. I 100% would say peace. And I just think our peace is different, right? So I think I have different things that matter to me. And I think I'm really close. I think I'm really close to my true wellness.

I don't think we ever really get there. I think we're always kind of in the finish line. Right, and I don't think I want to finish line. I don't think I think I would get bored if I thought I figured this all out. So I think at part of that right is embracing that maybe I'll I'll never fully have true wellness, but I feel like I'm honed in better than I've ever been in my entire life. And for me, it's like actually kind of learning to pull away from the stuff that we talk so heavily about on the show of macros and nutrients and bodybuilding and the weights and all the, and pulling myself and that and actually evaluating the rest

of my life. Because we definitely believe that that is absolutely a part of that, my relationships. I know an area right now, because I like to give things and be completely transparent with people, where I know that I'm not right where I wanna be, is like in my best friends, I have very close friends of mine that have been very, very important to me in my entire life. And I have been very focused on this business

for the last couple of years. And when you're building something, like this, something's got to give. I know what it takes to do something out of the ordinary and create something so huge you are for sure going to be out of whack. I know that. But I'm okay with that at this time in my life,

where I'm currently at what we're trying to do. I know that I'm not completely balanced. And when I find, and I know, just like we talk about intuitive eating, there's an intuitiveness about me when I'm at a place in business and financially and all that stuff, that all of a sudden I go, I'm here. You just hit the biggest chord with me, man.

This is why I love podcasting with you guys because I feel like I'm right there. We look at health, wealth, relationships. I'm in that wealth building phase. And so I intuitively feel like, I was actually talking to Sean from our Gantt Friday of the day. I was like, yeah, I go through moments where I'm so stoked about life and what I'm building

and what we're creating with wellness force. And then there's these little voices that come up that says, you're lonely. You're a little bit lonely, aren't you, Josh? And I'm like, yeah, sometimes I feel lonely, but I'm also creating the castle. I'm also creating the kingdom right now. So I know that that's a temporary thing. And we aren't our feelings. We aren't our emotions. As you know, we're the observer.

Behind all those things. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ball, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal and Iman Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over

200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having sour, animal justice as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is MindPump.

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