Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 643: Lewis Howes

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. We are here at LAX recording the intro. So normally we would do a trip like this. We would get back and Doug would have to go through everything. And probably Monday or Tuesday we record an intro, but we had so much fire this fucking weekend. We have to get it out.

Starting point is 00:00:27 We have to get it out. It's like a burning hole in my pocket. We are sitting in the airport right now. Tons of people are staring us. We look like a bunch of weirdos. People are wondering what we're doing. I don't care. We don't have time.

Starting point is 00:00:35 I embrace recording this intro but we're going to drop Lewis Houses. What a great interview. What a great interview. You're very self-aware, very smart man, successful podcast, or successful businessman wrote a new book, The Masks of Masculinity. Excellent, excellent book. Definitely for men, also excellent book for women.

Starting point is 00:00:55 Talks about the different roles and the different masks that we wear as men to cover things up or to protect ourselves. And we dive into it a little bit in this episode. So we touch on it towards you know towards the towards the end But man we went all over the place with Lewis. I love talking business with him. We got into personal We got into insecurity got into his life and what happened to him growing up great guy. He's successful for a reason It's it so his book is massive masculinity his podcast is the school of greatness His website is Lewis Howles.com. That's lew is H.O.w

Starting point is 00:01:23 ES well actually link the book below to so you guys will go direct link in the show notes You can go right to it if you guys are interested in the book, so we'll have that all yeah, we'll have a link We could grab that book, but anyway without any further ado Here we are talking to the great Lewis House There's that crazy myth that has been perpetrated that says that the emotional Self is separate from the physical self, it's all the same, it's all the human organism and it's funny because science literally proves this, you know, we could see all the neurochemicals and hormones and stuff change from simple thoughts or feelings or emotions or much it's crazy that we would

Starting point is 00:02:00 even separate the two and think that they're completely different right now it's insane so and you talk to Dr. Josh Axe yeah and you guys got to get them on and have them talk Crazy that we would even separate the two and think that they're completely different. Right. And now it's insane. So, and you talked to Dr. Josh Axe, yeah, and you guys got to get them on and have them talk about this as well. But we were talking yesterday about how, you know, even if you did everything right with your body and nutrition, you worked out, you slept right, you ate right. If your emotions were felt trapped, if you felt like you were a prisoner to your own heart, then you'd still get sick.

Starting point is 00:02:26 You'd still have disease. You'd still have challenges. And so really, I think it's combining like emotional health and physical health all in one, if you want to have an optimal life. It's all part of it. It's funny too, because when they do some of the best studies on longevity and health come from places in the world called blue zones. These areas like, you know, one over here, I think. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:02:47 Loma Linda. Yeah, the seventh-day Adventist, I believe. Yeah. And what they did when they did these studies is they said, okay, they thought they'd find some silver bullets. Like, oh, for sure, everybody's in here, we're going to find this one food or this one. And they really say, they really didn't find that. But one thing they found that was consistent was that they all had this kind of tight-knit group around them. Family community. Family community, whether it's religion, or whether it's their significant other, or the people around them and their

Starting point is 00:03:17 town. Grandparents were around, whatever it was. Yeah, and they find that consistently. That consistently leads to not just a longer life, but a healthier life. Yeah, and if they find that consistently, that consistently leads to not just a longer life, but a healthier life. Yeah, and especially in Europe too, Dr. Josh Jax was talking about how they don't eat that well. The stuff they're eating is not as good, actually, as it should be, but they're happy because they're always together,

Starting point is 00:03:37 they're always connected, and they don't have these sicknesses as much. Yeah, and we see this in fitness where the fitness industry, the industry that we work in, is so heavily focused on the, you know, macros, calories, training that we see. Obsessive of work.

Starting point is 00:03:56 Oh, absolutely. Ortherexia, there's a term for it now, right? Ortherexia, what is that? Ortherexia is like anorexia except it's like the obsession with eating perfectly Think of all think of all your competitors, right? They compete so and we talked about this on the show I I competed for three years and I did it first to just use it as a platform to catapult the virtual business

Starting point is 00:04:16 So that was I've never had this idea of wanting to get on a stage and compete never wanted to always want to wear speed Yeah, never once wanted to do that But when I did it, I'll tell you though I remember coming back to these guys, because we're already friends and we're talking, and we're already working on MindPump. I said, dude, you guys are going to trip out, because I went there, the idea was, okay, use the, use the league in an NPC, IPB to, as a platform, get your name out there, get a little bit of recognition, then we'll use that to gather people, and

Starting point is 00:04:42 so listen to the show. And I come back and I'm telling these guys, holy shit dude, you guys, I have seen. So between the three of us, we've trained thousands of clients over all the years. And I saw more eating disorders, poor relationships with food and exercise, and body dysmorphia in the competitive world than I ever had seen in the thousands of people that I trained. And that just blew my mind. and body dysmorphia in the competitive world than I ever had seen in the thousands of people that I trained. And that just blew my mind. I remember sitting backstage with this at the amateur level and talking to all these guys

Starting point is 00:05:12 and girls that were getting ready to compete and they were just kind of sharing their diet and their exercise and what they've been doing and going like, what are you doing? Like that's crazy. And that's what you thought there in like peak condition. Like these are the top athletes, right? Well, when you look at like,

Starting point is 00:05:24 when you go down, if anyone walks down a Grocery aisle and you go to the magazine section every single cover of a magazine It's pretty much all my peers. It's all the women's bikini all the men's physique and the bodybuilding guys are what are the cover of magazines And it's who are providing the information for the masses on how you should diet and exercise Meanwhile, I'm backstage talking to all of them, going, holy shit, these guys don't know what they're doing. Not only they know what they're doing, they have so much work they need to be doing on themselves

Starting point is 00:05:51 before they should even be in a position telling others. So, super fascinating. Yeah, it's, you know, when I tell people that sometimes a glass of wine or a piece of cake or whatever, it can be very healthy. I mean, you should see the looks on their faces, but if you understand that food can provide not just the physical nourishment, right?

Starting point is 00:06:11 There's nutrients and all that stuff that's good for the physical body. There's also the emotional health that can come from at the spiritual health, the fact that we're sitting with friends and we're connecting over a glass of wine and we're enjoying each other's company. Well, that can be very healthy as well. And that's how you develop that good relationship

Starting point is 00:06:27 with these types of things. Very, very fascinating topic. We love talking about that. So Mr. House, how did you get started in this... Mr. World Cup? Tell me about yourself. How did you get started in this world of podcasting, kind of what you do now, like what brought you here?

Starting point is 00:06:45 It's funny because 10 years ago I retired playing professional football. I mean, I didn't play in the NFL, so I called professional because I got paid $250 a week to play and beat myself against all. And when that was over, I was devastated because my entire identity was wrapped around being an athlete. And so when I couldn't be an athlete, I was like, well, who am I? This is what I've always got my worth from, my value from my peers is being like this great athlete. And so when it was over, I was on, in my dad had just gone through a really bad accident where he got in a car accident and the car came on top of his car and the bumper hit him in the head Oh, she was a New Zealand and they had to cut the car in half

Starting point is 00:07:29 Air lift him out into a hospital for three months. He was in a coma So during this time I didn't know we didn't know if he was gonna make it or not We were just like had no clue because the swelling was so bad in his brain that we didn't know if he was gonna come out of it And to the side He eventually woke up, got back to the US, but it was kind of like my dad died at that day when he got home. Like he didn't really recognize me, you know, he couldn't speak, he couldn't, he just wasn't himself. Now were you close? 10 years ago? 10 years ago. Now were you close to him? Did you identify strongly with him?

Starting point is 00:08:02 Yeah, very close. This is about actually 12 years ago, my dad, 10 years ago where I got done point football. Very close with him. He was kind of like, it's funny, the first half of my life, so I was 13, I was terrified of him. Like he was like this angry, kind of just wasn't ever fully happy with himself. I think he

Starting point is 00:08:26 You know he my mom got married early when they were like 18 and they had their first kid and Then they had three more so there's four of us and he had to work three jobs right away just to kind of provide So I think he never got to do what he wanted to do in his life like these dreams And so I think he was just kind of resentful always. It was very stressful. How many people are like that though? Yeah, a lot of people, right? But he stayed, you know, they stayed married when they should know. They finally got divorced. But it was just kind of like dealing with this

Starting point is 00:08:54 passive aggressive energy every day when they would come home and, you know, it just wasn't fun. So when I turned 13 though, he started to finally kind of make more money in his business. He did life insurance. He started to finally make more money and all of a sudden like, it was like a new person. He and my mom had gotten divorced and they were both fully happy. It seemed like, and I was like, wow, okay. He was making more money and then he was like the best dad ever. He was at every game. He was at everything like fully supportive, always happy, always giving like super compassionate. And he said, you know, I want you to make sure

Starting point is 00:09:30 you always go for your dreams. And if it doesn't work out, you can come back and work with me, you know, kind of like the family business type of thing. So I always head in the back of my mind, like if it doesn't work out, my dad's got my back. You're going there. Yeah, like he's gonna give me the business,

Starting point is 00:09:42 you know, one day, like he'll teach me, and then that'll be that. So you have a parachute now. Yeah, kind of have like a, you know, one day, like he'll teach me and then that'll be that. So you have a parachute now. Yeah, kind of have like a landing pad or whatever. And so when he got in his accident, I was like, oh shoot, what do I do now? I went to go continue pursue my dream of playing football, then I got injured and at that time,

Starting point is 00:10:01 he was kind of recovering, we had to teach him how to write, how to talk, how to read again, how to just like, you know, we had to clean him, everything, you know, to help him go to the bathroom. And so for me, as like a 23 year old, this is very challenging to see my father in this position. And for him, when he was able to talk, it was like, tell me again what you did, you know, when you were 16, like tell me, he always had, he couldn't remember. Right. And still today, it's kind of like a broken record. He's like, didn't you use to play football?

Starting point is 00:10:29 So we can have a conversation, but it's just not fully what it used to be. Mm-hmm. And so when that happened, I got injured. He was recovering, but he wasn't really emotionally there for me. I didn't have like his backup plan. he had to sell his business to his business partner based on their buyout clause because if someone got injured, then that's what was happening.

Starting point is 00:10:52 So I didn't have access to that, which is, I really didn't want to do anyways, right? So now I'm on my sister's couch for a year and a half, trying to figure out, because I had a surgery, I broke my wrist, I had a surgery, and they took a bone out of my hip, put it in my wrist. So I was in a cast from here to here for six months, and then it took another year to just recover. So I'm on my sister's couch for a year and a half because I didn't have any money, I didn't have a backup job, I didn't have anything,

Starting point is 00:11:16 and I'm recovering. During this time, a mentor said, why don't you check out LinkedIn, maybe you can find some job opportunities there. So I get on LinkedIn for about six hours a day and I'm just emailing people, influential people in Columbus, Ohio, where I'm living, reaching out to people to try to build these relationships

Starting point is 00:11:34 and ask them for advice. No one's getting back to me when I say, I need some advice, I need some help. So I'm like, huh, why aren't these people getting back to? Let me optimize my profile so I look more credible and then try to approach them in a different way. And so I optimize my profile to make it look like I had some results or something playing a renafopal.

Starting point is 00:11:54 I start emailing people in a different way and all of a sudden everyone replies to me. Anyone from like top seat yo's to millionaires to leaders in the community to big names in the industry Everyone's replying to me. I'm like, huh? You got a talk of you. I'm sure you have you have to share in depth about that Because I we get a lot of questions I feel like with people that are wanting to build a business around social media and they don't realize look like the importance of this piece right here. Yeah So I started to just

Starting point is 00:12:28 Think about what would I want if I was in that position? If someone's reaching out to me, what would I reply to? We'll get your attention. Yeah, we'll get my attention. And right away, I was just like, you know what, they kind of feel like they, you know, I didn't really read like the business books or anything like that, but I was just like, we've got to have mutual things in common. So I started reviewing their LinkedIn profile and seeing everything they would talk about. And then I would go research them in depth. Anything I could find, I would research them. And I would see how we're connected through mutual friends right off the bat.

Starting point is 00:12:55 So I would reach out to someone and say, you know, I saw that we're connected to Jeff and Sally. And I just talked to Jeff about you last week. That would be like the first thing. Then I'd be like, I saw you grew up in a went-to-all-how state university, and I'm a big-of-how state football fan. And then I would say one more thing.

Starting point is 00:13:11 Well, there's an end right there. I'd say, right, right, exactly. Well, then I would say one more thing. I'd find three things to connect on. That we had like mutual connection. And if you have at least one mutual friend that it always was more valuable. And then I would never ask them for anything.

Starting point is 00:13:25 So I'd lead with like the three layers of mutual commonality, right? Now when you're doing this, are you like putting this formula together? Did you read it somewhere? No idea. No idea. I was just kind of like, try to figure it out. Well, first I was like, oh, let me just make like, I was building my audience on LinkedIn. So I had all these like secondary connections to these bigger names.

Starting point is 00:13:44 So I was just like, hey, I know that we're both connected to so and so. And then, you know, sometimes that will work sometimes with what it. And then I'd be like, I know we're both connected to so and so. And I see you play college football, so did I, I'm putting the renal league. And sometimes that will work sometimes not. So I was like, can we just add more things to it? Yeah. I see that you were like a sports management major.

Starting point is 00:14:04 I see that you were this, I see whatever I could do to relate to them, I would try to put that out there. And I found it like, if you find three things, then that was pretty, it was kind of like the formula for me. And then I would do something else that most people never do, which I would never ask for advice, I would never ask for help, never ask for introduction. I would make it

Starting point is 00:14:25 all about them and find something specific that they had done in their career, whether it be like a jump in their career, something where they accomplished something based on the LinkedIn profile. And I'd say I'm so fascinated by how you went from a marketing person to the COO. And I'd love to learn that story. Would you mind sharing your story of success and making that happen with me? Now when you're asking that question, are you thinking podcasts? Yeah, I was just saying that. No, no, no, no, this is 10 years ago still. This is all 10 years ago.

Starting point is 00:14:53 Okay, so this is still, I just even know what a podcast was. But I was just like, here's what happened. I started getting all these people, these leaders in Columbus, Ohio who are like, yeah, I'll give you 10 minutes. Like let let's join, let's meet up for coffee or breakfast or lunch. So all these people were meeting with me. Before they wanted me with me at all, when I would ask for advice or ask for help, or can I have 10 minutes of your time and pick your brain?

Starting point is 00:15:16 How about half an hour to guys get that? And when I said, like, I'm just fascinated by your story, I wanna hear your story of how you did this. They were like, yes, I think everyone wants to share their story. And so I your story of how you did this. They were like, yes, I think everyone wants to share their story. And so I was meeting with these individuals in person. And now this is when I was broke. So I couldn't afford lunch already.

Starting point is 00:15:32 And they would pay for my breakfast or lunch already, which was like amazing. They were like, let me get it. You're a big kid for calling me for lunch. But they were like, you're actually doing me a favor. For allowing me to share my story. Oh, yeah, they're like, I insist. And I was like, you sure I can take it,

Starting point is 00:15:48 but I was like, I don't want to make this. I was like, thank you. And I was like, wow, I'm building some unbelievable relationships and at the end of all these meetings, people were like, what can I do for you? And I would never ask for anything. I was like, I just want to help you and I want to figure out what your biggest challenge is

Starting point is 00:16:04 right now. And they'd be like, well, I need a new person in sales. I need a new marketing person. I don't understand this like LinkedIn thing, how you've done it. Can you help me there? And so I was just trying to solve people's biggest problems, whether they needed investment, they needed a connection, whatever was, I was just trying to be the matchmaker. And that was what kind of helped me initially. But in these conversations, I was like, man, these are fascinating. What they're sharing with me about their story. And that was what kind of helped me initially. But in these conversations, I was like, man, these are fascinating. What they're sharing with me about their story. And I was like, I wish my peers could hear this because I'm getting some unbelievable information. Now I didn't know five years later. So that was five years later when I started the podcast.

Starting point is 00:16:39 Wow. So I was just doing this for myself. And I started building my own business through first LinkedIn course and a book that I wrote And I started doing LinkedIn networking events around the country. Wow. Yeah, so I did 20 networking events Where I rock early on like linked to the late. Yeah, it linked in just really starting a rock and roll 2008 I think there was like 20 million people on 16 to 20 million people when I was when I was getting on and So this was around the time when Twitter was kind of blowing up and people were doing tweet ups.

Starting point is 00:17:08 I don't know if you remember this back in 2008. Twitter meetups. So they were called tweet ups. He's like, yes. So I go to these tweet ups and I was like, this is fascinating. There's 300 people here. And they just met up from just sharing it on a Twitter.

Starting point is 00:17:21 And I go, there's a real need. In 2008, there was a big need for the economy. It was in a bad place. I don't know if you guys remember this. Economy had to go a big hit. People with masters weren't getting jobs, right? Now, I didn't even graduate college yet at this point. And I said, there's a need here.

Starting point is 00:17:38 I want to bring people together that I'm connecting with on LinkedIn. Because they're all looking for more leads and looking for jobs. I'm going to bring them together. So I did my first event, 350 people showed up. And I was 24. I had like one suit jacket.

Starting point is 00:17:51 I tried to show up looking professional and everyone else was like in their 30s and 40s and I was like, what am I doing? I have no clue what I'm doing. But I acted like I had done an event and just like greeted everyone, shook everyone's hand who came there. 250, 50 people. Now you're charging for this people at PA. This first one I just did free,

Starting point is 00:18:09 because I was like, I don't know if people are a show up. Yeah, sure. But I got four table sponsors to pay 250 each. So I made $1,000 from like the sponsorships. And I was like, huh, I wonder if I charge at the door if people would show up. And so the next one I charged $5. And I was like, I don't know if people are to show up more people showed up

Starting point is 00:18:26 Mm-hmm, and they were more qualified, right? What a great what a great lesson that is right there, right? Yeah, and then I was like, oh man I want to buy charged ten dollars, but they still show up. So I charged ten I charged 15 20 And I was like, okay, I've got the sponsorship. I've got the door commission. I wonder, I'm building these relationships with these kind of restaurants and bars where I was hosting them. And I would reach out to them and I'd say, what's the deadest night for you? Like what's that in?

Starting point is 00:18:53 It's like a Tuesday or Wednesday night and I'd go, okay, I'm gonna bring three or four and a people. Oh, they love you for that. They love me, right? And they're gonna buy drinks and food. And I go, can I get a commission from the food and bar? Can I get 10%?

Starting point is 00:19:05 And they're like, yeah, if you bring in this much money, we'll give you 10%. And then I was like, okay, I did that a few times and I get an extra few grants. And I was like, can I get 15%? I'm just gonna ask you for more. I'm just gonna ask it, yeah. I'm gonna bring you this, you're not gonna have it.

Starting point is 00:19:19 I'm gonna go take a next variable to you. It's a win-win. Win-win. And then I was like, people started asking me for like consulting on LinkedIn. So I started doing one-on-one teaching them. They were like, how are you doing this? I'm like all through LinkedIn.

Starting point is 00:19:32 And then I met a guy who helped me write a LinkedIn book. He was like, you need to kind of scale this message. Otherwise, you're doing one-on-one forever. So I wrote a book and I'd sell those books in my events. As far as figuring out everywhere, I can monetize one event. To a one platform. Now what do these look like?

Starting point is 00:19:48 So are you standing up and you're just talking everybody how to utilize these tools? What do you teach? I was just bringing people together. I wouldn't even talk at all. What? So everyone's just like networking? They were just amazing.

Starting point is 00:19:59 It was just networking event. I would have like, you know, even better. I had like kind of boost set up like little tables like this where people would like put some of their products or whatever, like services, so it'd be like five to seven boosts per event, eventually. And then I would make like an announcement for five minutes,

Starting point is 00:20:13 like, hey, make sure you guys are like, tip of the bar tender, make sure you're this, make sure you're this, like drop in your business card. I was just like building my own email list at the time through business cards. And I still was just like, I just needed to make some money because I was on my sister's couch. Now at this point in your life,

Starting point is 00:20:27 is you're only like what, 23, 24? 24 years old. Do you recognize kind of the brilliance in what you're doing right now? Are you just? When people told me they were like, this is fascinating. They're like, how are you doing this through LinkedIn? And I realized like, wow, there's a real need here.

Starting point is 00:20:40 No one's really talking about this one platform. They're all talking about Twitter or another stuff at the time. So I said, I'm going to be the LinkedIn guy. Like, I'm just going to go all in and be the expert on how to use LinkedIn because no one else was doing this. So funny. We're talking about this because literally in the car on the way over here, I was talking about LinkedIn. Yeah, I just finished the book, the four, which was an incredible book if you haven't read that book. And it's Amazon, Google, Facebook, and Apple. Thank you, Doug. Though the big four, and they're talking about, they're the big four, four horsemen who could be the potential fifth one. They get into Microsoft and they talk about how Microsoft, 10 years ago, was so huge,

Starting point is 00:21:20 and then they've pivoted to like a consulting, and then they bought LinkedIn. So I'm super fascinated in the direction they're going. You still, are you still pay a lot of attention? Here's the thing. I was like literally on there all day long, 24, seven for years, and I just got to come and burn down. So bored of talking about like how to add your like bio and your profile picture.

Starting point is 00:21:40 And I was just like, I'm over this. Right. So I haven't even used LinkedIn in years. I mean, we will like post our content up there in the news feed or whatever because I've got a huge audience there. Yeah. And I've got these massive groups

Starting point is 00:21:51 that I haven't even tapped into in years because I've just been, it's just not fun for me. That's awesome. Now is that what got you to pivot out of that into podcasting where you just bored and you're gonna do something different? So I started with LinkedIn and then I created, I created my first course.

Starting point is 00:22:06 This is how I got an online market. I did my first training course on LinkedIn. It was like a hundred dollar course teaching people how to use LinkedIn, video training. And I made $6,200 in my first webinar teaching this. And I didn't have the course done yet. So I said, hey, buy this and you'll get it in a couple weeks. And I made, just get it what I finished it. And it was like a, it was like a janky, I didn't want to mess. I you'll get it in a couple weeks. And I made it. Just get it what I finished it.

Starting point is 00:22:25 And it was like a janky, I didn't want to mess. I didn't want to make a sales page. I don't know to do anything. So I just said, here's a janky PayPal link. Like, type this in. It was like 27 characters, you know, pound, star, seven, six, you know, slash whatever. And I was like, go here and then trust me

Starting point is 00:22:43 that you'll get something in a couple weeks, essentially. Wow. And I made $6,200 and it opened my mind to like, it would blew my world. I was like, wow, I've been scrapping around doing these events around the country for a year, making three to four grand, you know, an event, but like really hustling to get people there and like, managing it. It was like, I'm burnt out from these events. That to make $6,200 in an hour, I was like, this is my life. Here we go. I'm going to figure out whatever it is to like master

Starting point is 00:23:17 what a webinar is, like how to optimize this. And I was like, I will do it every day for the rest of my life. If it's gonna make me this type of money. Because at this time, I'm paying $250 a month to live at my brother's house. Because my sister after a year and a half got like pissed off that I wasn't like giving anything or contributing anything.

Starting point is 00:23:34 She was like, you didn't need to get a job and start paying or you need to get out. So I was like, all right, let me go to my brother now and ask him if I can stay for free. And his wife made me pay 250 a month. And that's when I made me pay 250 a month. And that's when I made this money at their place. And I was like, okay, time to go get my own apartment. I found an apartment for 4.95 a month.

Starting point is 00:23:53 And I was terrified to pay it. I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this for months. And I was like, but leveling up made me like level up my mindset as well. Usually does that. And take action, right? And so I started on this LinkedIn course.

Starting point is 00:24:06 And I was like, okay, let me optimize this LinkedIn course, this video training course, and figure out this webinar thing, and I did that. And then that did really well. And people were like, okay, you've taught me LinkedIn, can you teach me how to use Facebook? Can you teach me how to use Twitter? Can you teach me YouTube?

Starting point is 00:24:22 So I started creating these other programs, because it's what the people wanted. And I found experts to teach them. The top people, and I was like, okay, we're going to create a product around you. We're going to create a publishing model. And that kind of blew up there. And so I got that business to a $2.5 million dollar of your business within the next two years. Wow. After I, like, how old are you now? You're at, I'm like, 26, 27 maybe. Wow. And I had how old are you now? You're at, I'm like 26, 27 maybe. Wow. And I had a business partner at the time. So I was splitting everything. And I just had no clue where they were doing business. I was never taunting this stuff. I was just like,

Starting point is 00:24:54 all right, I'm going to do webinars. I'm going to build relationships. I'm going to teach. I'm going to sell. Where did, where did all the self belief come from? I think it came from this couple of, a couple of things. Sports was a big factor for me because I just, you know, you guys played sports, right? So for me, just like the Justin I do, Sal has two left feet. The mindset of just, you know, playing sports at a high level with the pressure constantly, you know, really developed me. I feel like gave me that edge. So I always believed, and the one my dad taught me just really Encouraged the belief in myself. Do you think there was a party that was driven because of that and because what happened to him?

Starting point is 00:25:32 I think I don't think I'd be here. I don't think any of this would be happening if he didn't get in his accident To be honest. Yeah, and I actually don't talk about that much But I think it was supposed to happen For me to be able to do what I'm doing. That may sound a little egotistical, but I truly believe there was a night before he left for his trip to New Zealand. He'd never missed a game, a football game.

Starting point is 00:25:54 He would fly all the country from him, no matter what. And he was gonna miss one game, my senior year. And I was like, why are you missing this game? I had a bi-week, so he was gonna miss that, which was fine, but then the next week he was gonna miss, because he was gonna be gone for two weeks in New Zealand with his new fiance. And I was like, why are you missing this?

Starting point is 00:26:12 He goes, I feel like I need to go on a spiritual journey. And it was like, guess me, it's still thinking about it because he was like, I just really wanna go on a spiritual journey and I wanna go, I've never been in New Zealand, I really wanna go there. Wow, what a trip to San Teeble. What a trip to San Teeble.

Starting point is 00:26:26 San Teeble the night before he leaves. And we're at a family camp. We would go to this like one MCA family camp, either Moriel Day or Labor Day weekend. We would go for three days as the whole family. And he's sitting by himself on the couch. I don't know if I ever shared this, but he's sitting by himself on the couch

Starting point is 00:26:44 unlike the mess hall area. And I just see him looking weird. He's like looking out of everything, just kind of weird. So I go sit by him, because he's just kind of looking like, I don't know, something's going on. I go talk to him, I go, you know, what's going on? He's sad about the trip, why are you leaving?

Starting point is 00:27:00 He's like, are you angry right now? Are you kind of bitter as a kid? No, I'm just saying, I'm not. Well, I'm kind of like, you know, I had transferred to come back to Ohio my senior year so I could be closer to him. So he didn't have to travel as much. So I went to a school closer to him

Starting point is 00:27:14 because I was always gone from Ohio. So I was kind of like, man, you know, my first week, I was like broke school records. I was like, you know, all conference. And then the second week he was leaving. And I was like broke school records, I was like, you know, all conference, and then the second week he was leaving. And I was like, why are you leaving? This is like seeing a year, like, let's do this. You know?

Starting point is 00:27:32 And he was like, I just feel like I need to go on a spiritual journey. And it was just weird, the way he said it, it was just very weird. And so then the game he missed, the night before, I got to call it 1130 at night from my sister, I see it on myself when I come up. And right away I'm like something happened

Starting point is 00:27:54 because my family knows not to call me like that late that I before game. Yeah, yeah. So I pick it up and I go, what happened to dad? And she's just like she came and speak, she's like the interiors, right? Yeah. And I just had a feeling. I was like, otherwise nothing would be wrong, you know? And she said the story. You know, he got an accident. We don't even know if he's alive right now. He's getting airlifted. We have limited communication.

Starting point is 00:28:19 And so I'm like, what do I do? Do I play tomorrow? Do I not? Like, and my brother was like, you got to play because we have no clue what he's going to, what's happening, but he would want you to play. See, mine's what play. So I did, and the second to last play of the game, I break three ribs, and then we lose the game in the next play.

Starting point is 00:28:38 And so at the end of the game, I can walking off like hobbled broken three ribs, we lose, and I'm like, is Dad alive or dead? I'm like, I don't even know. Wow. You know, I'm like, we don't even know. And so, it's fascinating that moments like this, the most challenging moments of our lives are the ones that propel us into, you know, what we're supposed to do.

Starting point is 00:28:59 Yeah, and so, I believe that like, because I didn't have the back of plan anymore, to go work with him, because I didn't have his emotional support, his mentorship, like I didn't have any of that. None of it was there. Like he couldn't communicate, couldn't give me advice, he couldn't support me. It's almost like he didn't care anymore, right? And at that time, he's probably at that age where you're at in your life, he's probably at least one of the top, if not the top mentor, probably.

Starting point is 00:29:23 Absolutely. No, he's brilliant, he's brilliant man. Wow. He's brilliant. And so for me, I was like, okay, I got a figure this out. I got to find other mentors. I can't let this be my excuse and just like, sit here in Ohio and just be miserable

Starting point is 00:29:36 on my such a couch for a longer time. Like, I've got to step up now. Dude, where does this awareness come from? That level of awareness at that age. I think I always, when I was five, I knew that I just had big dreams. I was just like, I'm here for a reason. You had a purpose. Yeah, I just knew when I was five. I was like, something magical. It's going to happen because I was in so much pain and insecurity growing up. That, I just felt like that my sensitiveness was really like a super power.

Starting point is 00:30:05 my sensitivity was really like a super power. But it wasn't at the time because I didn't have any friends growing up, but I felt like some day this is gonna matter. It's gonna mean something. And so, yeah. Did you feel like you didn't fit in growing up? Absolutely, I didn't have any friends. Yeah, I was like the tall, gangly, goofy kid. I was picked last in sports teams.

Starting point is 00:30:23 I was made fun of a lot. I was in the special needs classes. I couldn't read out loud. So the teacher is, I don't know if this ever happened to you guys, but they would have us read aloud in class. And it would come to me and I would just stutter and stumble and just stop and sit down because I couldn't do it. So, yeah, I just knew that though. I just knew that I had to figure something out. Like this wasn't what my life was supposed to be. I wasn't supposed to like not make it to the NFL and like get injured and be done and now what?

Starting point is 00:30:54 Like go work a job that I don't love. Did you? Was that your ultimate vision? Was to get into the NFL? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And your dream is a kid. The Olympics in the NFL. Yeah, I wanted to be an Olympian and I'm still pursuing that actually, which sounds kind of crazy. Oh, shit, like your kids is a kid the Olympics in the NFL. Yeah, I wanted to I wanted to be an Olympian and I'm still

Starting point is 00:31:06 Pursuing that actually which sounds kind of crazy Oh shit, what I play with the I play with the USA handball team right now Oh good deal. So I'm on the Olympic team. No way. Just didn't qualify the last two Yeah, I didn't know that's often here's the thing if the Olympics were hosted in the US I'd be an Olympian because it's an automatic qualifier. Oh, shit. The host country is an automatic qualifier for every sport. So you just have to, they only take one country from North and South America for team handball. And you've got to win that tournament in order to go.

Starting point is 00:31:36 How the fuck you get into team handball? Yeah, just like football to take a football. I mean, 2008, again, the same time, 10 years ago, I was on my sister's couch and I watched the Olympics. I was watching during, when I just got the cast off. If you were like that, handball looks like a song. Handball for the first time, I never seen it before. It was like 3 a.m.

Starting point is 00:31:55 Oh wow. And I watched these highlights and I was like, what is this sport? Let's go on here. This is my sport. Oh wow. And so I started obsessively researching. I was like, this is my chance to make the Olympics

Starting point is 00:32:04 if I can't make the NFL. Oh, wow. And then I researched like Hamball clubs in Ohio and Columbus, there was nothing. And then you guys just say, how do you even practice and get good at that? Yeah, exactly. So there's, there's club, it's an amateur sport in the US.

Starting point is 00:32:17 Okay. This is Hamball where it's like water polo on a basketball court. This is not a Hamball where you hit a ball against the wall. Oh, that's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm picturing right now. So describe this. Let's say, you know, I'm talking about or no, no, I'm a team. Handball is imagine water polo, okay, without water. Okay. Where there's two teams throwing

Starting point is 00:32:35 a ball. That's kind of cool. dribbling and it's on a bigger basketball court. And it's like a small soccer goal. We are throwing it behind a goalie. So I'm going to soccer with your hands. Okay. On a smaller field. Oh Oh wow, you're dribbling, you're passing, but it's very technical people. You can't fully tackle them. I was almost healed hockey, right? Kind of like lacrosse with your arms, yeah. And it's fascinating. It's unbelievable. It's one of the fastest sports in the world. It's huge in Europe. You know, 20,000 people come out to watch these games. It's like, it's unbelievable. And so, I moved to New York City two years later. I said,

Starting point is 00:33:13 when I make enough money, I'm going to go to New York City because that's where the national champions were for handball in the US. After I did a lot of research, I found like, okay, New York City is the place to be if I want to learn this. Two years later, when I made this money, I moved to New York City, walk into practice and say, I'm going to be an Olympian, I'm going to make the USA team. And they all laughed at me. I'm the only American.

Starting point is 00:33:35 It's all Europeans that have moved to New York for other reasons. And you've never really played this sport. Never played in my life. That's something I'm going to make. The USA national team, I'm going to New Orleans things. They laughed at me. They wouldn't speak to me. They wouldn't even speak to me. They wouldn't speak to me in English.

Starting point is 00:33:47 They would just speak in their other languages. I'm probably mocking you. Making fun of me. But I showed up every single practice for that year and nine months later, I made the USA national team and started competing against Olympic teams in Brazil, in Argentina and South America with the USA team. And this is seven and a half years ago now, seven years ago.

Starting point is 00:34:07 And I can't remember where we're at in the first place, but did I think I'd be doing this? When my dad went through all these things, I was just like, I believe that there was just more for my life than what I was doing. I just believed like I had an opportunity to find a meaning of why all these things happened and make the most of it for the gifts and talents that I have and figure it out. And so I kind of had that vision, you know, eight, ten years ago.

Starting point is 00:34:33 Well, this kind of leads me to, too, to talk about your newest book right now and you talk about how different masks, kind of the same way that I talk about our greatest strength is your greatest weakness. Yeah. So I say that a lot on our show and you kind of talk the same way and also your greatest strength is your greatest weakness. So I say that a lot on our show. And you kind of talk the same way and also your greatest weakness is your greatest strength. Absolutely, right? So it's inverse, right, related.

Starting point is 00:34:51 And I think that the way you talk about the mass are very similar. And that could be a situation right there where is an example in your life where you're looking to play this sport. These guys aren't talking to you. I'm sure that the mask, your athletic mass, that you probably wore, it was also what drove you to be so great at it. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, the athlete mask is a powerful one,

Starting point is 00:35:13 because when I was in third grade, I got picked last on a team. I was self-conreluid to this. So the teacher said, okay, we're going to go out to recess and we're going to play like a class game where we're going to play dodgeball. And he picked two people to be like the captains, to pick the teams. And he's like, okay, you get to pick one person out of time and you trade off.

Starting point is 00:35:41 The stuff that you can't do in school anymore, right? Yeah, I can't. But it probably built great character. Exactly. And so there was like the two popular guys that he had like pick. And I'm thinking I'm one of the tallest. I'm pretty athletic. Right. They're gonna pick me for shoe in. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. So I'm kind of like standing close to them like they're gonna pick me, you know, and they start picking one by one all these other boys in the class. There's probably, I don't know, 40 kids in the class,

Starting point is 00:36:08 20-ish boys or something. And so they're picking all these guys until it comes down to me and like literally the guy with two left feet, right? The nerdy looking guy. Get dead to sound. Right. It's you or sound right now. The guy with like the glasses, like the skinny like kid

Starting point is 00:36:24 who was like, a little, you know, he's never seen a ball in his life before. He could barely walk, right? And I'm like, there's no way they're gonna pick this kid. It's no chance. Like, I'm a good athlete, right? That's what I thought to myself.

Starting point is 00:36:36 And then they pick this kid and he starts walking over to the team and I'm like, seriously, on the last boy picked. But then something interesting happens. They pick a girl before me. And I'm like, what? Like instantly, I felt like so humiliated that there was a girl picked before me. Then they pick another girl and another

Starting point is 00:36:57 until it's all come down to me and one girl. Wow. Now this girl is like, can't even walk times, you know, a million, right? It's even worse than the like the nerdy guy. Yeah. And they pick her before me. And so now I'm the last, and then they don't only pick me,

Starting point is 00:37:12 just because I'm like the last one on the last team, they're like, okay, well, you go over there. Yeah. But didn't even picture you had to go there. You just had to, right? And so again, as like a third grader, I'm thinking to myself, I'm humiliated. Like this is, I'm less than a boy.

Starting point is 00:37:26 I'm less than a girl. Like what am I? Right. And I'll tell you what, I was like dominating this game. I was like, all this anger, I was like slamming it in your face, and I'm like catching every day. I was like, I'm gonna prove you guys wrong.

Starting point is 00:37:38 I, yeah. And I continued with that anger for many years. I said, I'm gonna prove you guys wrong. And I was training like a machine after school. Every day, I was like, I'm never gonna get picked last again. I had to become the roots. Oh, I was like, I'm gonna be the most dominant athlete I can be.

Starting point is 00:37:56 I'm gonna get so big, so fast, so strong that people have to pick me first. And that's what I did. And it worked. The mask of the athlete mask worked for. And that's why it's so difficult. That's why it's so tough to take off. So challenging because it drove me to be all-state in multiple sports, all-American, you know, get play pro football. It drove me to achieve. And I got a lot of value from that. You know,

Starting point is 00:38:19 I learned a lot of great things. People accepted me. They wanted to be around me. I had friendships now because I was like accepted in the group. I wasn't just like the awkward kid anymore. And the challenges when I come from place of needing to win at all costs, needing to be right at all costs at all times, not just on the sports field, but in life. It's very, it's a lonely place. And you know, I was always competitive in everything, with my girlfriends and just like a little game of like flip cup or something, you know, whatever, just like heads and tails or like, fun war, it's like I had to dominate. And people are like, God, you're so aggressive.

Starting point is 00:38:58 Like, take this so serious. Yeah, why is this so serious? Why can't we just have fun? Like, girlfriends would be like, gosh, this is like, you're not fun to be around. You're not fun to play sports with it all. Right, it's like so serious? Why can't we just have fun? Like in girlfriends, we're like gosh, this is like you're not fun to be around You're not fun to play sports with it all right. It's like but I had to win at everything at all costs no matter what Well, it's tough because when you when you've learned to switch that on and you become ultra competitive and then you have success with it And you have repeat success with it and you get rewarded and you get all these things knowledge

Starting point is 00:39:22 People like you might as of it and all that stuff and until you're forced until you're forced to take that as you would say Mass exactly exactly and the the rewards were high but so were the prices I paid the price in like feeling alone loneliness feeling like It was never enough like even though I'd win at all these things or I would achieve at all these things, it was like, how come I didn't feel good still? How come it wasn't fulfilling me? How come I wasn't satisfied? And it was just never enough, because I was still trying to prove people wrong in my competition.

Starting point is 00:39:54 I was still trying to prove my worth to people, as opposed to just owning it, and not trying to make people wrong for what they think about me, but lifting others up and then trying to do it for inspiration. Now, do you think through trying to prove other people wrong for what they think about me, but lifting others up and then trying to do it for inspiration. Now do you think through trying to prove other people wrong or prove your worth, that reality, you were trying to prove your worth to yourself? Absolutely. I mean, to everyone and myself, you know, the world.

Starting point is 00:40:16 Now you talk about, that's one of the masks of masculinity that you identified. There's nine, I believe, that you said that are in there. Do you feel that masculinity is at a crossroads right now? Do you feel like there's a bit of a crisis? I think so, we were talking about this before, you know, everything we see in the media, every day it seems like is there's one common thing that we see. And starting back six months ago, just this year alone, you know, we see Charlottesville,

Starting point is 00:40:44 we see men marching angry, we see all the political dis-es that's happening, just the constant conflict that's happening. A lot of anger, we see a lot of sexual abuse and harassment happening at Hollywood right now, and just with like Uber and NPR and all these executives and companies Amazon. We see every three days it seems like a new shooting, a new killing from Vegas, just like unleashing anger into the world too. When I was in New York City a few weeks ago, the guy who just drove through New York City and killed a bunch of people in the van of the truck to the church last week with the guy went to the church to up in Northern California a couple of days ago,

Starting point is 00:41:28 whatever happened up there. I mean, just seems like every day there's something happening where the common denominator is a man that does not express himself in healthier forms. A man that feels like I need to be where the sexual mask. The, I mean, every year we see athletes who are beating their wives or, you know, domestic violence or something like that, or they're just

Starting point is 00:41:51 punching them in a elevator and watching the door slam on them. There's all these different masks that we see in the media that men are wearing. And the conditioning is hard to break from what happens when you are kid to your teen years when these things are rewarded for us? You know when these things are rewarding It's hard to break it and turn off the switch and say well I'm gonna express myself and communicate from a loving way or just open up and have a conversation as opposed to That's not acceptable sometimes. It's not acceptable to open up and express ourselves that way. We get made fun of this guy. We get ridiculed. We get pushed away. So we say, fuck it. I'm just going to be angry then. If you want me to talk this way, then let's

Starting point is 00:42:33 go. Let's fight. Let's do this. I'm going to dominate. I'm going to win. And it's hurting our humanity, I believe. I think what we're, a lot of what we're seeing is, for millennia, men have felt like they've had an important role or an important place in society and as societies evolve and grown, we're sitting here thinking, well, what do I do now? They don't need me to protect them. Because it's pretty safe.

Starting point is 00:43:03 They don't need me to make money. What is our role? School is you know punishing you know to boys because we're we tend to be more ram bunkers So we're not really doing well there and statistics show that girls do a lot better in school I can't show vulnerability. I can't show emotion Because it's gonna be fun of my peers or my dad will hit me. That's right. Doesn't know what I communicate with me. That's right.

Starting point is 00:43:28 It's interesting. I watch this very fascinating video on how men make up a majority or a large percentage of both ends of the spectrum where you have a majority of people in prison, a majority of people with mental illness, a majority of all the issues are, suicides are men, and then on the other end, inventors and artists and creators, it's almost as if the male gender, if you will, or sex or whatever was evolved to be that kind of outsider,

Starting point is 00:43:59 but with modern society, it can be quite frustrating. And so I think it's perfect timing. Right, something like this. Could you, would I think it's a perfect timing. Right? Something like this. Could you, would you mind going into some of the other masks? Well, talk about the, before you go in all the masks, I want to know personally with you,

Starting point is 00:44:12 because I know you, and you express this, I've already talked about it, that we all have multiple masks. Would you say that the athlete one in you is the deepest rooted one, or do you have another athlete in the aggressive or the deepest probably, because, you another athlete in the aggressive or the deepest probably because you know I talked about this openly but I was raped when I was 5 by a man and

Starting point is 00:44:31 my brother went to prison when I was 8 till I was 12 and a half four and a half years and so during that time I didn't have friends because the neighborhood you know I was growing like a middle class white suburban neighborhood so to have someone in your family go to prison, it was unheard of in my community, in like the white neighborhood, right, or whatever. And so the parents of the kids my age were like, you can't hang out with Lewis, you know, if his brother, you know, as long as he's in prison,

Starting point is 00:44:59 you can't hang out with him. So I didn't really, I mean, I was already awkward and didn't have friends and that was like, oh, now I have less friends, you know what I mean? It was like no, he's a bad kid now and so What was the question? Aggressive so for me I took defense to everything like anyone's setting it into me I was like I need to defend myself. I need to defend myself I need and I need to fight back and like no one's gonna talk about me

Starting point is 00:45:24 No one's gonna make fun of me like I'm gonna again. I'm gonna get so and I need to fight back. And like no one's gonna talk bad about me. No one's gonna make fun of me. Like, I'm gonna, again, I'm gonna get so big and strong that like, it doesn't matter. Like if I, I was just very like aggressive. I was, I was very loving because I just wanted friends, but then when it didn't go my way, I was like, okay, fuck you.

Starting point is 00:45:40 You know? It's almost like the masks that you talk about are just unhealthy over expressions of natural masculinity. Yeah. You know, like aggressiveness. We tend to be a little more aggressive, which had, you know, there's a reason for that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:55 But it's that unhealthy expression. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, some of the other masks, those are the main ones that I had, maybe alpha a little bit as well. I mean, I wore them all, and I still wear them all from time to time. And so it's not like I've elevated to the mountainaintops and I'm like, we never do, right? I mean, you're always going to be working towards exactly.

Starting point is 00:46:10 Exactly. But I'm very conscious of it when I am defensive. Even yesterday, I, Matt, my CEO, he, someone, I felt very taken advantage of. And when someone, when I feel like someone stealing money from me, it's even like a whole another trigger for me. So I'm like, don't try to like take advantage of my name or my money. And someone did both, right? I won't get into the details, but essentially I was just

Starting point is 00:46:39 got very frustrated and I was just starting to send in like nasty emails and I was like, you need to do this now. Like, I've been very compassionate for the last couple months. You haven't responded. You haven't gotten back an answer of how you're going to make this right. So it's time to do it now. Otherwise, legal action taking place.

Starting point is 00:46:54 And I was like, and this woman was like, why would you be more compassionate and speak about like what you're doing in your book right now and continue this? I was like, I have been compassionate. And now I feel even more taken advantage of because you're not communicating. And Matt was like, I have been compassionate. And now I feel even more taken advantage of, because you're not communicating. And Matt was like, I wish he wouldn't send these emails. He's like, I know it feels good for you, but it's not good,

Starting point is 00:47:12 because she could just screen show. It wasn't like a recording. We call that picking up the brick. It's like, don't pick up the brick, right? Don't pick up the brick. I just wanna be like, fuck you, but I'm like, okay. Now when he was telling you that, were you defensive? Like, we're talking about, I'm defending myself.

Starting point is 00:47:23 No, I'm like, I saw it right away. Right when I posted, I go, fuck, I hope he doesn't see that were you defensive, like we're talking about defending myself. No, because I'm like, I saw it right when I posted, I go, fuck, I hope he doesn't see it. It's funny that he's eating it. So I'm like, I wanted to just say, hey, I just posted this. I know what you're gonna say. Hey, here it comes.

Starting point is 00:47:35 Just like, it's all good. I'm not gonna reply again. I just need to get this out there. So it's still happening. But I'm much more calm and like aware of it. Now do you think there's anything therapeutic about allowing those masks sometimes or situations like?

Starting point is 00:47:48 Absolutely. I think for angry, I don't think we should just be like, you know what, I'm just gonna be loving. And okay, I think we need to find our own mechanism. That's healthy as opposed to, well I'm angry at this person, so I'm gonna unleash it on them. That's not a healthy.

Starting point is 00:48:02 But talking about it with a friend or talking about with my business partner, and communicating my anger and expression, and that healthier context is healthy. Sometimes it's warranted. It's literally a loud, angry, angry. You know, I'm all for having a room of like a punching bag room.

Starting point is 00:48:18 So like get your anger out of the well. As opposed to, okay, I'm just gonna breathe and always bottle it up and never express myself. And then when someone crosses me the wrong way, I'm gonna let them. To make some out of them, which I've done as well. And so for me, it's like, okay, what are those things that are, I think getting a pillow and screaming in a pillow

Starting point is 00:48:35 is a great form of expression. You know what I mean? It's like good to let it out, but find the context where it doesn't hurt other people and it doesn't hurt yourself. Now, how did you start identifying? Because you know, you use masks other people may say ego or, you know, the security.

Starting point is 00:48:52 How did you first started identifying this? I started working with psychologists and I'm just doing research. You know, I was like, okay, what are the characteristics that I have? What are the masks that I wear? Were you in therapy when you were younger? Never was in therapy.

Starting point is 00:49:05 I've done a couple therapy sessions since I started kind of like diving in. Since I started opening up about being sexual abuse, I did it a couple of years ago. Four years ago I started opening up about it. Because everything in my life, the reason this all happened is because everything in my life was working on the outside.

Starting point is 00:49:22 I was making more money than I'd ever made in my life. I had, you know, hot girlfriends in my 20s. I had this, you know, a girlfriend at the time who people were like, oh, she's super hot. So I was like, okay, cool. I'm cool. I made it. And I had a business. I had the athletic achievements. I had the awards. I had it all. Tom Brady formula, right? People were like, exactly. People were like, you're crushing it. Like everyone's like, you're crushing it Lewis. It's four years ago. And I was like, well, why am I suffering? Why do I still feel like Right people were like exactly people were like you're crushing it like everyone's like you're crushing it Lewis Four years ago, and I was like well, why am I suffering? And still empty still why do I still feel like it's not enough what I still feel empty why do I still feel like? You know, I'm lonely all the time

Starting point is 00:49:55 It's felt constantly lonely and then I started to Like things just got really bad in my business partnership, in my relationship with my health. Like, everything started going wrong, and I was like, why is everything else going right? And everyone looks, everyone says it looks good, but I feel like it's shitty. And I didn't understand until a lot of things happen where I got in a fight on a basketball court,

Starting point is 00:50:21 I had to send a guy to get stitches from this face, and it was like blood all over the court to just like almost beating up my business partner in the middle of Times Square. Wow, and this is after you've already been successful, you did such a shit like that. Absolutely. This is like when I was at the top of everything.

Starting point is 00:50:35 Wow. Got in this fight. It was just like this massive and there. Yeah, so crazy man. I was so defensive towards everything. Like anytime someone looked at me in the weird way or said something to me that was like, aggressive, I had to defend myself,

Starting point is 00:50:49 whether it be online or in person. I had to defend myself at all costs. No, you have such a great story with something like that. Do you have things that you practice now because obviously that has to resurface, right? There's gotta be moments where you, those triggers happen. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:51:03 It's funny. I mean, how much time do we have? We all day, bro It's funny. I'll give you an example Three weeks ago. I'm Going to I'm going to the airport to get on a flight because I got to go somewhere right before this book launches and The I get out of the car and I check my back pocket to check for my wallet and I don't have my wallet. So I'm freaking out, like checking the car with my wallet, I realize I left it at home.

Starting point is 00:51:30 I've never left my wallet back. So I'm thinking, fuck, like what? How did this happen? How did I forget my wallet? This never happens to me. I'm like, you know what? I'm still gonna make it on this plane because I always figure out a way, that's the way my mind said. I'm gonna figure out a way. Is that self-belief said, I'm going to figure out a way. Is that self belief? I was like, there's always a way. Or delusion. But I just believe, I believe in the power of enrollment, like if there's something I want, I believe I will get it for yourself.

Starting point is 00:51:56 And so I was like, okay, door shuts in 15 minutes. I'm going to make it on. Right? Because I always get there about 15 minutes before, like the door, because I've got to say, pre-check, I know the line I'm going into, I know how fast it is, I've got one bag, like I don't have any water bottles in there, like I know what's gonna take to get through.

Starting point is 00:52:14 And I've done it so many times, so I get there and I go, okay, I don't have my ID, I have no identification, I need to get on this plane. I'm Louis Halles. Yeah, you're like, do you have any? Do you feel like you have that way? Say that when you book, do you have this all save that when you do? Do you have any identification on the bills, anything?

Starting point is 00:52:29 I was like, mail us like nothing. They're like, okay, you need to go over this other line and talk to someone else. So I go over there, there's like a hundred people in line trying to get through. I just go right to the front and I go, sorry everybody, I gotta get on this plane. I don't have my ID, this and this.

Starting point is 00:52:41 They're like, we gotta find someone else. They bring someone else around. They're like, do you have anything? I go, I have my book. I go like this. I go, I don't have my ID, this and this, they're like, we gotta find someone else, they bring someone else around, they're like, do you have anything? I go, I have my book. I go like this, I go, I have my book. This is work. Get your face on it, right? I was like, I was like, here's social media,

Starting point is 00:52:52 here's all these things, like, no, it doesn't work for us. It's like, fuck, okay, well, what do we need to do? I need to get on this plan. Well, we have to get it, someone else to do a phone call, we have to answer a bunch of questions, on your background, I go, okay, let's do this now. I got 15 minutes.

Starting point is 00:53:07 So they take their time, they're good old time. We go outside, we get on the phone call, I have to fill out a bunch of paperwork. I'm like, just do the call, let's do this. I'm filling out paperwork. I answer the questions like my cat's first name, like my mom's maiden name, like my car from 10 years ago,

Starting point is 00:53:22 like addresses, I have to verify everything. Finally get through like this first test. And like, okay, we need to go do the screening. I'm like, cool, TSA pre-check, right? They're like, no, you gotta go through the normal line now to like do the full screening. I'm like, okay, let's do this. But they give me through, they pretty much have to like

Starting point is 00:53:39 strip me down naked. And the guy is like, okay, sir, I'm gonna put my hands on the back like this, but I have to cover like you're Dude, do that now. It's crazy. It's like I have to go all the way down This just happened to me I'm like beard Yeah exactly exactly yeah and I'm like okay just wrote me strip me down naked. I was like I got to go

Starting point is 00:53:58 I've got like three minutes now, right? This is whole process down like through checking my phone I'm like the door closes in three minutes. Let's go Do whatever you need to like tickle my balls. I don't care. Let's go and And they have to take every item out of my bag to swab each item and put it through the machine and I'm like guys Like let's just do this. It's fast if we can please shoes off everything and They're roping me. They're taking stuff out. I'm like Can we hear this? I'm trying to be calm, because I don't want them to like, fresh, I'm like, it says I have two minutes now.

Starting point is 00:54:29 Can you guys, is there any chance we can speed this up? Please, I'm trying to be nice. And they're like, the gate is right here. Like, you're gonna be fine, you're gonna make it. This is what this woman said to me. I was like, ah, that's the first time in my life. I feel like I'm not gonna make it. Like you saying that, it was like a bad sign, I go,

Starting point is 00:54:44 okay, I'm trusting you, and she's like, you'll be fine. We get everything together, they're like, okay, you're done. I grab it all, I just start sprinting with like shoes and handbag, like clothes hanging out, running to the gate, door closes right as I go around. I go, can you open the door, I gotta get on. To go, so I once the door's closed, it's closed. I go, there's gotta be a way. Can you open it up, can you see our supervisor, you can unlock it, can you do something, can, once the door is closed, it's closed. I go, there's gotta be a way.

Starting point is 00:55:05 Can you open it up? Can you turn it to a supervisor? You can unlock it. Can you do something? Can you call the pilot? I was like, anything. They're like, sorry, once it's closed, it's closed. It's policy.

Starting point is 00:55:15 And now I'm talking to this customer support woman. Looking at the plane through the window, people are still boarding the plane through the thing. It's still connected. I go, the plane is right there. It's not leaving. Can you just let me on? Yeah. And she's like, there's nothing we can do. I was like, and so at this moment, I am pissed at myself for forgetting my ID. Right. I'm pissed at the TSA pre-check people because they're like through me

Starting point is 00:55:41 around everywhere. They took good old time. I'm like, these people lied to me. They say they're making on here. I'm thinking all these things. I'm trying to blame everything else. And there is a trash can and a pillar holding up what it seemed to be like the entire airport right next to me. And all I wanted to do was punch through this pillar and break down the airport.

Starting point is 00:55:59 And then kick this trash can and watch it explode in front of everyone's faces. And all I wanted to do was scream at this woman. I didn't do any of that. I just stared to my ash can and watched it explode in front of everyone's faces. And all I wanted to do was scream at this woman. I didn't do any of that. I just stared at the airplane and was like huffing and puffing. And the woman was like, sir, what would you like us to do? And I was like, if I say something right now, look at her, I'm probably going to regret what I say.

Starting point is 00:56:19 And all of a sudden, the awareness pops in and I go, how funny is this that I am going somewhere to talk about my book about masculine vulnerability. All I want to do is punch someone in the face. And so I just start smiling to myself and I go okay this can go one of two ways. I can walk out of here humiliated and in handcuffs or I can walk out of here with my head high and let it go. I meant to be. And so I just like looked to her and I start talking a little more calmly and I'm like, okay, is there anything we can do

Starting point is 00:56:52 for another flight tonight? She's like, sorry, there's no other flights. So I'm like, more lessons, more lessons, more lessons. Okay, surrender to the process. And at the end of it, you know, I walk out of there calmly and not handcuffs, you know what I mean? I like, I get out of there and I'm like, okay, you know what? This was a lesson. This is a moment I get to take, be aware to like sure I could have handled it better. But I still didn't break a wall down or something like I might have in the past.

Starting point is 00:57:21 And so it's just being very mindful of these moments. And what I do now is in the morning, I actually think about all the things that I want to manifest that day and create, but I also think about like, what are all the things that could happen today with my triggers? You know, I'm in LA traffic, so if I drive today, I'm gonna be triggered because someone's gonna cut me off,

Starting point is 00:57:40 someone's gonna be slow, something's gonna, something's gonna honk at me, it happens. My old way of being is like to always be right and to show that driver like you should never cut me off because I'm gonna cut you back off now. And I'm gonna always be a little bit ahead of you. Right?

Starting point is 00:57:55 And so I think about like what happens if my girlfriend says something that triggers me. And the morning I'm like, okay, how do I want to respond? With defensiveness and anger or with love? And so I think about that in the morning, I'm like, okay, how do I want to respond? With defensiveness and anger or with love. And so I think about that in the morning, meditation really helps me to just be mindful of like staying focused on two things. And what this book and this whole process has helped me with is realizing that there's

Starting point is 00:58:15 two things that we should be thinking about, thinking about it all times, based on our actions and our reactions in any situation. And that is one, does my response support a purposeful vision for my life? If me responding right now and punching this wall, is that going to help me achieve my vision for my business, my health, my relationships? No. And the second thing, does it support my inner peace? No. I call it desired outcome. That's why I tell people, before you say, open your mouth or do anything, think desired outcome. What's your true desired outcome from the situation? And when you really think that forward head,

Starting point is 00:58:54 like what is punching or kicking the trash can, getting you to get you? Nothing. It's not going to reach your desired outcome for sure. And so does it support my vision and my inner peace? And if it doesn't then be aware of that and don't do it. And I think that's helped me gain a lot of clarity on everything. It's like just saying yes to this commitment that someone asked me to do whatever an interview or a meeting does it support my inner peace and my vision or does it make me stressed out. So now when you have those moments, do you stop and breathe?

Starting point is 00:59:23 Do you stop? Absolutely. Yeah, no I breathe. Shut that off. I breathe. And I don't respond until I've asked myself that, what's my reaction going to be? Is it going to help these two things? And like, sending this email yesterday, didn't help my vision or my inner peace. It felt good in the moment to be like, right? But, you know, if I really would like went there and like swore and did all these other things, it could have been probably, you know, she could have screenshot that and put it online and like said, like Lewis is like a hypocrite and isn't

Starting point is 00:59:55 do what he says. He does, you know, all these things like, you know, again, it would have been more challenges. And the irony is all the things that we do that we think protect us and shield us are actually things that do the exact we think protect us and shield us are actually things that do the exact opposite. That's the whole irony of it. You know, Eckhart totally talks about the ego and learning how to become the observer. And it's the ego that reacts and stopping and observing really makes a massive difference, but it's a practice. Yeah. It's a practice you got to do every day. I talk about it, you know, with friends and family, it's like exercising. It's like working out.

Starting point is 01:00:26 You're not gonna work out once and all of a sudden become strong and fit. It's something you need to do every single day and sometimes your workouts are better than others. And it just doesn't work where you just do it once and like, here I am. I'm evolved and I get it. It's something I gotta practice every day.

Starting point is 01:00:41 And looking at these moments like lessons, it's like looking at your workouts. That's absolutely. Let's speculate a little bit. I love when I have another really intelligent mind to add to this group and someone who is self-aware, self-aware as you are. And you also mentor a lot of young entrepreneurs

Starting point is 01:00:58 that are coming up. Where do you see, with the generation coming up right now, what do you foresee the challenges that they're dealing with with social media and everything going on? What do you, what do you see? A generation coming up right now? What do you foresee the challenges that they're dealing with with social media and everything going on? What do you, what do you see? A lot of it is the comparison mode. It was social media, like everyone's comparing themselves

Starting point is 01:01:12 to everyone else, especially in the fitness space. It's like, well, this person has more followers by doing this, so I needed to do this. This person looks a certain way, so I need to look a certain way. And what was the word you guys talked about? The intuitive, now the anorexic thing Oh, or the rest yeah, yeah, and so I feel like it's a lot of orthorexia for Everything it's like trying to be perfect in all these areas. Do you see getting worse or better?

Starting point is 01:01:34 I see it getting worse first and then people realizing like this doesn't work. They have to go through their own Lessons unfortunately Unless people are so aware to be like, oh, okay, I'm going to hear someone else's story whether it's mine or someone else's and be like, oh, they had everything and it wasn't at all. You know, I love the quote from, I think it's Jim Carrier where he's like, I hope everyone in the world becomes rich and famous and they realize it's like not the key. How funny is that guy goes off in the woods, that's a bunch of mushrooms and comes back totally enlightened.

Starting point is 01:02:07 So I think the challenge is people are driven to achieve and to make a lot of money and to be successful or whatever but it doesn't bring the fulfillment. It just doesn't. I feel like a lot of the generation coming up too is in search of this purpose. Right. They want to find this purpose. When when I hear a story like here, as I feel like there was so much heart, heartache, hard work, failures, things that had to happen for the success. And even when you had this success, it wasn't the success that you wanted. And you know, can you elaborate a little bit on the importance of that and that whole process, you feel? You know, it was all to prove my worth in the world, the achievements that I wanted to

Starting point is 01:02:45 achieve were to show people like I was valuable to be here in the world and to prove them that they were wrong about me. And it's just, it's negative fuel is the most powerful fuel in the world, but it'll never last, it's not sustaining. Like I got to where I was based on negative fuel. And I was so disciplined and committed. Like I would not say yes to go to parties. I didn't have a sip of alcohol in college

Starting point is 01:03:14 because I was like, I'm gonna prove everyone wrong. I'm gonna be so disciplined and achieve my goals to prove them wrong. And it worked. It got me great results on the outside, but I was like, man, I'm so empty still. And once I learned that, I said, okay, I'm shifting everything to not make people wrong,

Starting point is 01:03:34 but to make others rights, and to not bring others down, but to lift others up. And that what I do, it needs to come from place of inspiring myself and be an example for inspiration for other people. Otherwise, I don't wanna do it because I did that for 25 years in my life and it was miserable.

Starting point is 01:03:52 It got results, but I still wasn't fulfilled. Are there things that you've turned down recently like that that you people think? I turn down money all the time. Speaking gigs, business deals, opportunities that are big money-paying opportunities all the time because it doesn't feel good to me. I'm like, I don't wanna just make money as a transaction.

Starting point is 01:04:12 Unless it's something that I feel inspired by or something I feel like it's gonna help people or something that excites me. And when I do take those jobs, I'm like, okay, 50 grand for an hour speech, like something I don't really care about though. Like sure, it's nice. And sometimes it's needed, like if I'm poor, I'm gonna, okay, 50 grand for an hour speech. Like, something I don't really care about though. Like, sure, it's nice. And sometimes it's needed.

Starting point is 01:04:27 Like, if I'm poor, I'm gonna take those jobs. Like, it's not like I'm not gonna do that. But if I have the option not to right now, like, I'd rather put this energy in time into something more meaningful into my mission. What is that right now? What excites you right now? What are the things you like putting your energy into?

Starting point is 01:04:44 I mean, my podcast excites me. I just like connecting with people in general. It's where there's my podcast or this right now. I just love connecting and hearing stories and telling stories. My mission right now is to serve a hundred million people a week and to reach a hundred million people a week to teach them how to make a full-time income doing the thing they love the most. Because I believe when we make a full-time income doing the thing they love the most. Because I believe when we make a full-time income doing something that we are filled with joy and passion, we're going to treat ourselves better, we're going to treat our friends family better, we're going to make better choices for our health, and we're going to live happier lives. We're

Starting point is 01:05:19 not going to be killing each other in the streets if we're doing something that we're inspired by. It's funny, as a personal trainer, you know, towards the end of after I've been doing this for so long, I realized, you know, because people would come to me and say, you know, I want to lose weight, essentially, I want to lose weight so I can be happy. And eventually what I learned to teach them was first you got to be happy. Yeah. And then you lose the weight in a real way. And you said you were always seeking the value or finding value.

Starting point is 01:05:44 When did that happen? And they do achieve and then I'll finding value. When did that happen? And they do achieve, and then I'll feel valuable. When did you finally realize that you are valuable? When I started to heal the process of everything from my past, you know, I was four years ago, I started sharing with everyone the things that I didn't want anyone to know. Sexual abuse was just like the biggest thing, but just all my insecurities, all my fears, I started talking about them to my closest friends,

Starting point is 01:06:08 my family, and then I was encouraged to talk about it more publicly, which I didn't want to at first, but then after many, many months of people saying, you think it's more of a responsibility for you to open up about this because your platform was like, okay, I'll do it. The more I talked about these things,

Starting point is 01:06:24 the less these things had control and ownership of for me and the more I owned them. And it was like, I don't have to react or make decisions based out of this fear, this insecurity to like prove myself anymore. I'm like, everyone already knows my shit. Everyone knows like my biggest fears and they're my biggest insecurities.

Starting point is 01:06:41 The shit I've been through, like being the less and being all these things, feeling stupid, they know the worst of my worst. So freeing when you're there. And they all still like me. And they all, they like me. They appreciate you. They like you for them.

Starting point is 01:06:53 People are like, I've always judged you and now I'll trust you and I'll follow you anywhere. That's funny. What? That was something I wanted to transparency, man. I'm like, what? That was something I wanted to say. And then we're like, you're my hero.

Starting point is 01:07:04 They're like, you're my hero. I've been married for 20 years. My wife doesn't know what wanted to transparency. I'm like, what? That was something I wanted to say. And we're like, you're my hero. You're like, you're my hero. I've been married for 20 years. My wife doesn't know what happened to me still, because I don't have the courage. How much of your life have you gone through? Because being a tall, good looking, athletic guy, how often do you get judged when you walk into a room? Instantly, especially, I mean, it's challenging,

Starting point is 01:07:21 and I get it because especially with women. It's like, so many women have dated a Paul White, Jocke looking guy at some point in their life, and we're probably had a bad experience with them. And so it's like instantly, you're that guy, you're the guy who hurt me when I was 18, the guy that cheated on me, the guy that broke my heart, the guy that,

Starting point is 01:07:42 whatever, manipulated me, you're like the example. And so, listen, I get that white male privileges of thing. I get that I had certain opportunities that other guys didn't have. I get this. And just being a man, I had different privileges. I get this. But it also comes with a lot of judgment

Starting point is 01:08:00 and a lot of, you know, some people is putting you in this like box, right? It's like, well, you're this way just because you look this way. Right. And that's just who you are. So it's constantly trying to break that mold. And part of this, you know, everything I try to do is to kind of try to break that mold. And this book is like very unexpected for a lot of people because there's not many tall white,

Starting point is 01:08:25 jock men, opening up above vulnerability. In general, who are saying, yeah, this is what I've been through, this is my flaws, this is my challenges I've been through, but they don't own me anymore. And I'm gonna work on being better. And I'm still not perfect, and I still make mistakes. So call me out on it when I do.

Starting point is 01:08:42 Let me know. You know, it's that word privilege. I have a, when I hear it, it makes me upset, let me know. You know, it's that word privilege. I have a, when I hear it, it makes me upset and I'll tell you why. It's because who determines what is privilege and what? Is it for you, brother going to jail, dad, you know, almost dying, terrible, terrible things,

Starting point is 01:08:58 but you could look at them and you said that you look back at those as moments that drove you to what you're doing now and all your success. Absolutely. So it's almost like what we do with it can make it a privilege or make it. Listen, I understand that being white, there's a lot of less prejudice, walking down the street. I don't have to worry about a certain sense. That's another race, I have to worry about, I get it. But I think when it comes to women who are just like, well, you don't know what you're talking about.

Starting point is 01:09:24 Like, I hear this all the time. Like, I'm not even going to look at your to women who are just like, well, you don't know what you're talking about. I hear this all the time. I'm not even going to look at your book because you're just white-mounted. They're just automatically assumed. And I'm like, if you would, I see what you're writing about on Facebook, about equal opportunity, about vulnerability. If you read one paragraph, open up anywhere.

Starting point is 01:09:38 I pretty much have copy and paste and say the same thing that you say. So we're on the same page. I'm on the same side as you. Like, I'm speaking the same language. Yeah, let's connect. Let's like, let's talk about it. You don't need to, whatever.

Starting point is 01:09:51 I mean, you don't need to buy my book, but I'm saying the exact same thing that you're saying. I bet that was a major disadvantage, but I also bet it's a major advantage for you. We talk about this with three of us, that people probably, you're unassuming. You think that I'm gonna get this, I'm talking to a talk-per-talk guy,

Starting point is 01:10:07 and I'm like, oh shit, this guy, super empathetic, super friendly, and then I'm sure that totally wins people over once you finally get inside. Yeah, yeah, I mean, eventually, but people are still like, people still are very strong-minded to like, well, you look this way, and you talk in a certain way,

Starting point is 01:10:23 so you're just, this is who you are. The irony is the judgment on how you look and they're talking about no judge people. Exactly, it's so fun. I love the way that you do this. There's a group, I mean, like, I don't need to like, harp on this or go too deep, but there's a group of like these women online

Starting point is 01:10:38 who are just really negative towards me right now. Really aggressive, like, just saying a lot of nasty things about me and these private groups, and now publicly like writing full articles about me right now. Really aggressive, like, just saying a lot of nasty things about me in these private groups, and now publicly, like writing full articles about me. Wow. And they still won't even read, like, one paragraph. And I'm like, guys, you're telling me that I'm all the things that are wrong about men and white male privilege. But I'm like, I'm here, like, saying, let's have a conversation. Like, I want to talk and hear. Like, tell me how I can be better tell me what I'm saying that is hurting you are hurting women are hurting this and they're not even they're like no I will never read anything you do

Starting point is 01:11:12 I will never buy anything you do like because they hold on to something from the past of me why because you're talking about how masculinity has these masks and the difficulties exactly how much and if they're like there could be any Difficult here's a thing. it's funny, I did an interview with Marie Forley on her show. This is so funny, it's like, do you guys know she is? She's got a pretty big female audience, like very influential. And so it was a great interview.

Starting point is 01:11:36 And it's like probably 90% women who are watching and listening. And, you know, I'm just like, talk, I'm opening up about everything, I'm opening up about my past, I'm opening up about like how men get to heal and like how men get to come together and help humanity and all these things, right? That like women are talking about as well. And then I say one thing that I say, you know, something about like, you know,

Starting point is 01:12:00 I think this is a great opportunity for women to go through this. And at the end of every chapter I talk about how women can understand the men in their lives and come from a compassionate place of what they've been through from the past, just so they have an awareness. Without realizing you just jumped on. Third, real. But I was like, you know, and having an awareness and being able to communicate to men in a way that they can hear it and resonate with them so they don't feel defensive.

Starting point is 01:12:26 And so this one woman was like, so you're telling women that we need to do the work. Men need to do the work, not women. And I'm like, and you're like, that's why you're wrong about everything because they were like, we shouldn't have to do any work with this. It's all about the men doing the work on themselves and being responsible. And I go, yes, I say all those things. But if you want to live with men and human beings, you get to understand them as well.

Starting point is 01:12:47 Like the playbook, I'm headed to the keys to the kingdom. So it's just challenging. It's like, it doesn't matter how much I'm like, you know, equal rights for women. Like, don't hurt women. Don't do anything that, like, it doesn't matter what I say. If I say one thing that's like, they could be taken the wrong way.

Starting point is 01:13:00 It's like a whole group of women are like, you're just this jock, white male privilege, screw you. There's like, again, is that judgment? Where does it say about you? What does it say about you when you're attacking me? Isn't that what you say you're not supposed to do? There's a lot of anger right now surrounding these topics. And it's it's the result of a lot of different things from politics to, you know, politicians put a lot of money in fostering and creating this divide to help get themselves voted in or whatever. And you have social media that amplifies voices and so

Starting point is 01:13:35 it makes things seem worse than they really are. When the reality things are a lot better than they ever have been to the point where something does happen and get caught on camera, the reason why it goes viral is because people find it, you know, disgusting. Otherwise, nobody would even pay attention. But I think these are all good signs because when you see real change, right before you say you see real change, it tends to get into this. Yeah, super dark. This feverish, you know, like, out, you know, just people going crazy with things

Starting point is 01:14:05 before things really start to change. But I think what people need to realize, and I say this all the time on the show, is people are inherently good. Most people are inherently good. It's not the other way around. And if it was true that people were bad, society wouldn't succeed.

Starting point is 01:14:20 You wouldn't be able to walk down the street without something happening to you. The reality is most people are good. Most of us all want the same thing. We want to be loved. We want to be accepted. We want what's best for our children. And we want to feel fulfilled.

Starting point is 01:14:30 It doesn't matter if you're a man, one black, white. Yeah, gender not informing, doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter. Everybody kind of wants the same thing. And if we just listened. If we just listened and tried to understand or seek to understand before seeking to be understood or judgment or whatever. Oh, I think we'll go so much further. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think a book like yours is perfect for that.

Starting point is 01:14:49 Thank you. Excellent. Excellent. Thanks for coming on show. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Talk about how I got into podcasting it. Yeah. We get there. Another show, dude. Welcome to Mind Pump. Brothers, what happens? We just start talking about some shick-goal different directions. Yeah, I would love to hear that story. Wanna hear it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's hear it. So to kind of get back to the original question. The first question. You get back to the very first question.

Starting point is 01:15:12 I'm quite sick. I don't even remember. So after my business, you know, kind of, I got to a certain level with my business. I got this fight with my business partner and I was like five years ago. And the middle of time square and I was like, okay, we just need to like figure out a way to like, split this up and move on. And I was kind of over just like teaching about like LinkedIn and like Twitter and things like that. I was like, this is not really what I want to do anymore. It served

Starting point is 01:15:40 a purpose to help me get off my sister's couch, make money and not feel poured in more, but it's not my passion right now. So I sold it to him, and then for about a year, I just kind of was like evaluating what I wanted to do. And I realized I just still love connect with people and asking these stories. And I remember I moved to LA, I was driving an LA traffic, and I was stuck one time, trying to go like one mile, it looked It took like an hour and I was like I'm so pissed off right now

Starting point is 01:16:07 This is like so frustrating and everyone else around me was frustrated in their cars And I was like there's got to be a way to bring inspiration to people's lives when they feel like trapped in traffic or just stuck in life And so I thought about like radio okay Podcasting and I called two buddies of mine who had a podcast at the time, Pat Flynn, who has smart passive income podcast. And I called Derek Halpern, who has a social strikers podcast.

Starting point is 01:16:33 I called them both and go, tell me about this podcasting thing. Is it powerful? Is it helpful? Is it help your business? And both of them were like, it's our favorite thing to do. It has the most qualified leads we have for our business.

Starting point is 01:16:46 People say unbelievable things about the feedback, it's amazing, and they love it. And I was like, oh, okay, these guys can do it, I think maybe I could do it. I didn't ever listen to a podcast. And I told myself, I'm not gonna listen to any, because I'm gonna create the thing that I'd wanna listen to. Oh, cool.

Starting point is 01:17:03 And not be influenced by like, oh, this is how they do their intro, and this is how they do their adread. This is how the thing that I'd want to listen to oh cool and not be influenced by like Oh, this is how they do their intro and this is how like they do their ad related This is how the music. I was just like that. It's something I want to deal with that I just want to like what's the thing that would fire me up It's crazy. It's a lot like us and I called another buddy mine in the same car ride and I was like thinking about doing this podcasting thing like what do you think it should be? And he was like why don't you do like a business show because everyone comes to you for business and marketing.

Starting point is 01:17:27 And I was like, it's just not what I feel like I want to do. I was like, yeah, maybe I could be effective, but it's not what I want to do. I want it to be broader. I want to be able to like interview like Olympic, called medalists and like billionaires and then spiritual leaders and like all these different people. And he was like, it's probably not gonna do as well

Starting point is 01:17:46 unless you like niche it down. That's what everybody wanted us to do. The same thing, dude. He's like, just do one niche, right? Not that he's wrong. I think I would have done well if I did like the business marketing show out of crushed. Right?

Starting point is 01:17:57 Initially, but then it's hard to go out of that. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, and he's like, you know, maybe do it like the Lewis Hounds podcast. And I was like, eh, I'm not Joe Rogan. I was like, I'm not trying to do that thing. And I wanted to be bigger than just me. And so I was like, what I really want to do.

Starting point is 01:18:12 I started talking about it. What I really want to do is this, this, and this, and this. And I was like, I just wish, you know, these conversations that I get to have with all these friends of mine who are influential from every different industry. I was like, I wish people could hear these because it's unbelievable what they're saying to me when I'm learning, but I'm the only one learning it. And I was like, I wish this is the stuff that I was been taught in school because it was so challenging for me.

Starting point is 01:18:37 And everything was very hard reading these textbooks and just not understanding things. And I was like, this is the stuff that's helped me get to where I am in business and relationships. So I was like, I wanna create a new school, like a school of something. And I was like, God, I just wanna be fucking great. Like a school of greatness, baby. And I was like, that's it. He was like, that's a great title.

Starting point is 01:18:56 I was like, school of greatness. And it's just like, from that, you know, that frustrating moment created an opportunity, you know. my weakness that I was facing created a strength. It was like make me think clear, get me out of the box, and so school of brain has happened. And then, yeah, almost five years ago, we launched it. And it kind of took off. Like, I remember saying to myself, I was like,

Starting point is 01:19:18 I'm gonna do this once a week for a year, see how it goes. And I'm not gonna take any money, I'm not gonna try to sell anything, I just wanna do it cause I'm excited about it. And I'm not going to take any money. I'm not going to try to sell anything. I just want to do it because I'm excited about it. And I think that mentality really helped me because within like six months, the sponsors started coming and people are like, I want to be on this and I want to promote. And I was like, oh, we have like a real thing here. When you first got going and then of course you mentioned Joe Rogan, obviously it was kind

Starting point is 01:19:40 of, he's like the Oprah of podcasting right now. Who other than Joe Rogan, like who are you kind of looking at? See, I know and you were now. Who other than Joe Rogan, like, who were you kind of looking at? I know, and you were doing your own thing, which is just like us, but were you watching others? I wasn't, I still wouldn't listen to anyone's. I, it wasn't until a couple of years after I was like, all right, I'm in this, no few podcasts. And I watched a couple of Joe Rogan's, but I was like, man, these are so long and like,

Starting point is 01:20:03 super long, super long. And it was like, some of the conversations were like, I've got to finish one. I've watched like 40 and I've never finished one. People love it. I know. I love it. I love it.

Starting point is 01:20:12 So it's all good. I mean, it works for people. It was inspired by him and then, yeah, you know, I don't know, I'm always like watching the rankings and seeing what's happening, but I'm never like listening that much because I'm just creating so much. When you look back or listen to your old episodes, how good do you think you were?

Starting point is 01:20:32 I don't listen to anyone. None of my episodes. Did you never or did you stop at one point? Because we listen to the beginning a lot. I never listened to it. Oh wow. We critiqued ourselves at one point because I drove you a should I,

Starting point is 01:20:43 I almost never drive anywhere, but I drove to see Rob Dierdex News show. And it was about an hour drive and some of the drive back. I was like, let me just check out like Oprah's podcast. Cause it was like the first thing up there. And so I touched on Oprah and I actually listened to Eckhart Tolley's things. Oh, did you?

Starting point is 01:20:57 It started like the ego in the day. Fantastic, right? It's fascinating. And I listened to Sean Derribe. And I was like, this woman's powerful as well. So I listened to a couple of them and I was like, oh man, now I remember why it's so addictive like listening to podcast because I was like, this is really powerful. I never listened to it all myself. But I was like, wow, I just like got through the whole drive an hour and listened to two

Starting point is 01:21:16 episodes and I feel like I learned so much and the time flew by. So I was like, yeah, now I know. What was the question? Were you good? Oh yeah, and then my. Yeah. What was the question? Where you good? Oh, yeah. And then in my podcast, well, my podcast came on like right before.

Starting point is 01:21:31 Like it's just auto-played. It was in the app, right? And I was like, turning it on to the car. And I was like, gosh, I just feel like I sound stupid. Even like this is like a couple months ago. We all think that. I was like, man, I just thought of it. I feel like I'm stuttering.

Starting point is 01:21:45 I feel like I slur my words. I feel like I'm lazy. And I'm like, gosh, I just hope I don't sound it. Hope everyone doesn't think I sound this stupid. I think part of it is like, I just don't want to feel insecure about myself. I'm now like listening to it. But I think it's good also.

Starting point is 01:22:01 It's like game film, you know? It's good to listen to or watch. I know I know we do a good episode When I'm listening to it and I'm listening to it like it's another show. Mm-hmm when I get into it Yeah, if I'm sitting there critiquing it I know it's not that great of an episode when I get into it and I start listening to it. Oh, okay We're in the flow. Yeah, we were the best. That was really good. I find I find podcast if you interviewed Stephen color yet. Yeah twice I find podcasting to be the most therapeutic thing I've ever done It's like therapy listening or talking talking on a podcast very powerful

Starting point is 01:22:37 Yeah, I will share absolutely our stories and whatever to all these people or It's amazing. I mean, and you keep talking or looting to it. Like, I mean, I always talk on the show that your true net worth is your net circle. And we have this ability now with podcasting to meet all these other brilliant minds. I mean, I've grown more in the last three years than I did the previous 35, dude.

Starting point is 01:22:59 That's been crazy how much we've grown. Like an incubator. When you're just meaning all these brilliant minds from different walks and different, I think it's just, there's nothing else like it. There's nothing that I remember like being a kid that where I could have, I would have killed to have our podcast to have pretty sure, right?

Starting point is 01:23:14 So when you talked about like the way you thought when you're creating, that's exactly how we created was, you know, what would we want? If we were just getting into this industry, fresh green trainers don't know anything about health and fitness. Yeah, what really works? And what out there is bullshit.

Starting point is 01:23:27 And that's what we addressed, like first thing. We had all of you guys been doing it now three years. Yeah, how many episodes you had? 600. 600. Yeah. Oh yeah, we go, we go. We like to talk.

Starting point is 01:23:38 I'm at five, 60, I think. See, we passed you up already. He's competitive. I'm going to calm down. I'm poking at you. Calm down. Yeah, don't put the mask on. He's competing, I'm pulling. Calm down, I'm poking at you. Calm down, fast. Don't put the mask on. Who's got a higher record?

Starting point is 01:23:49 Yeah. All right. Here's your humble pie. I'll send Rob to your deck on that. Yeah, we haven't had any. No, yeah, no, it's been, it's been the biggest lesson you guys learned from. Oh my God, the biggest lesson? Having a podcast.

Starting point is 01:24:03 Oh, you know learn more about ourselves. I can, I can, I can name a couple, the biggest lesson having a podcast. Oh, you know learn more about ourselves. I can name a couple. I can definitely name a couple. For us, personal lesson for us as a group was that we are our best when we're in our flow state. And the way we get in our flow state is we just go. Because in the beginning, we would try to kind of produce and, okay, here's what we're going to talk about

Starting point is 01:24:24 or we would start the show by saying, welcome back to Mind Pump or whatever and it just it didn't yeah and when we didn't have the mics on and just the three of us would go like nobody would shut up and it would be this great conversations. Yeah. And so that was the first lesson for us was our superpower is we can just go let's just push that which is why we do so many episodes. Well especially with interviews too because we weren't able to really get into that flow with other people.

Starting point is 01:24:47 It was like, we had this flow in this chemistry, but it's like, how do we bring them in, and we realized we had to cut this whole formulaic intro that we would do with them. We're like, nope, get rid of it. Do it later, and that totally helps. Yeah, that's good. That's cool. That was a big game changer. I think that was one of the biggest game changers was the interviews when we when we first started

Starting point is 01:25:07 We did the first hundred episodes pretty much just the three of us. No interviews It was just us talking about fitness We had so much to talk about and our backgrounds are so different in fitness that each guy had something to put and we would openly debate things and topics and read different studies that were coming out and then openly discuss them and we had great Conversation of people loved it and then we'd bring a guest on, and it would be our worst episode. Oh, you're like, yeah. Yeah, so we're like,

Starting point is 01:25:31 shit, do we not bring guests? And at that point, when you're first starting to not like, what's going on? Right, we're bringing like our friends, you know, that like have some cloud or something like that and they're not huge guests yet. And so, we know we're like, man, do we just do this by ourselves?

Starting point is 01:25:42 And we're kind of going through the same thing. You're talking about where you're like, you know what? We're not gonna do a podcast just because everyone else does interviews. Maybe we'll never do interviews. And we went through a time where we're just doing just the three of us and said, you know what? Like people are the feedback, is they love hearing us talk.

Starting point is 01:25:56 We bring a guest on. And it wasn't until, and it took a year before Mind Pump reached a total of a million downloads. And then we started doing a million a month. So it really took a long time to get to the month as big. What is you guys now? What are you on now? So we're right around there.

Starting point is 01:26:11 So we were 1.2, 1.5 depending. Yeah. So it took, it's hard once you hit this, it's hard to keep growing. You hit the, you grow really fast and it's like you slow down and it's almost kind of like fladding that. Like how do I break through that? And that's kind of where we've been now. So a lot of, even like, you know, getting to interview you

Starting point is 01:26:28 and going to drama next. And we're really trying to branch out because when we named just like you did, the school of greatness, we were like, mind pump, we did not want to pigeonhole ourselves to just fitness. You know, we wanted to talk about other topics, we had other people on the show.

Starting point is 01:26:43 And so this last year or so, I'd say we really are starting to stretch that more. And brand, yeah, branch out beyond just health. Because there's so many other things that we're into. I'd say the other thing, the other big thing that we really learned was just being driven by our ultimate purpose, which, and what I mean by that is there's times when we sit there and say, okay, we want to drive this part of the business or we want to reach this many people so we can do this many programs. And every time we do that, we're not our best. But when we sit down and really feel passionate about our purpose, which really our purpose

Starting point is 01:27:15 for us is to help people, help people find their health, their longevity, their fitness, growth, we're all growth-minded and growth-oriented. And when we go in with that purpose, everything else falls into place versus the, their longevity, their fitness, growth, we're all growth-minded and growth-oriented. And when we go in with that purpose, everything else falls into place versus the strategic business. Yeah, I'm glad to have it. We have massive egos and we think we're going to actually do.

Starting point is 01:27:35 We actually believe we're going to change the fitness industry. We think we're going to change the fitness industry. We believe that it's a big ship, but we think we're turning it. Yeah, if you don't believe it, it's not going to happen. Right. And I think each of us 100% believe that. We believe that we're don't believe it. It's not going to happen right Yeah, and I think each of us 100% believe that we believe that we're making moves that direction it's slowly happening I think the timing of our message to it's we're very transparent. We share insecurities

Starting point is 01:27:53 We talk about all the stuff that drove us to working out and three meet head bodybuilder looking guys No one was really saying that message. Yeah, it's all around motivation and beast mode and no days off and no days off and it's the complete opposite message. I feel like it's tough because I love saying like, prove them wrong and all these, like these little memes and these quotes, I love that shit too. It's like, of course. Do whatever it takes, prove them wrong. Of course. All that stuff, like Gary Verge, Chuck Stout, all these other people and I'm like, yeah, I love that. I just want to do that. But then it's not sustainable. No, it's not. It's freaking awesome. It's a tool. It's a 12. What it really is is a spark. It's, it's, but it's not sustainable. No, it's not. Motivation is bullshit. Self-belief is

Starting point is 01:28:38 everything. And it's, it's what's marketable. Because it's, it's that instant dopamine rush. You turn on and you get that mask. You have us go. Yes. And it hipes you up. And it's what's marketable because it's because that instant dopamine rush you turn it on and you hit that mask You have us go. Yes, and it hypes you up and it's that initial surge But it's short-lived because it's artificial. It's not real. It's not intrinsic It's not something that you feel compelled to do. It's somebody else Motivated me which it's no different than in fitness And this is what we talk about when people come into wanting to get in shape when you're driven by your insecurities It only take you so far like if it if Like if that's what's driving you, you take

Starting point is 01:29:08 you pretty far, but it's not right. You know, workout and eat right because you love yourself, not because you hate yourself. And it'll take you, not only would take you far, but it'll take you forever, because that's a true feeling. That's one that we like. You can only hate yourself for so long. At some point, you get of it, and you jump off the wagon, or on the wagon, or off the wagon, I hate myself, and now fuck that. I don't wanna hate myself anymore, so I'm just gonna give up, and then you create this false sense of loving yourself or you're like, I don't care what I look like,

Starting point is 01:29:35 I don't care, I accept myself, which is just another false way of loving yourself. You still hate yourself. Well, and it's perpetuated by the people at the top right now in our space that are on the cover of a magazine that are getting most of the credit and the jacks. And meanwhile, behind the scenes, they're the most dysfunctional fucked up

Starting point is 01:29:53 out of balanced people out there. You know how I said earlier that it's gotta get really bad before it gets good. Social media is doing that. You have, at the moment, like girls in particular, have been targeted by fashion and fitness and makeup, and you got to look a particular way with magazines, but it's gotten so much worse today because now you can go on Instagram and you can flip through a thousand pictures in an hour, and our primitive

Starting point is 01:30:19 minds don't know that you're, you know, we compare ourselves to the things around us, and that ends up becoming the norm, and now we're super unattractive or we're not smart enough or not whatever and it makes us feel terrible and people are feeling so bad now that I think the tide is starting to turn. You're starting to see advertising campaigns actually try to capitalize on this where people are coming out and saying here's what it looks like when I'm relaxed and here's what I look like without Photoshop and they're trying to capitalize out, but it's a movement that's happening kind of on its own.

Starting point is 01:30:49 We're grabbing onto it, we're pushing it, adding fuel to it because we know that the real path to long-term health, wellness, feeling good, whatever you wanna call it, is in truly caring and loving yourself in the truest sense. When you get to that point, the rest of it's easy. Absolutely. But getting there is hard.

Starting point is 01:31:07 I think the biggest challenge for this generation coming up is gonna be, you know, because the social media can be such a tool. I mean, you're a perfect example. So I want to build this empire starting through LinkedIn, pivoting over the direction that you did, is how do I use this as a tool and I don't become consumed with it?

Starting point is 01:31:22 Absolutely. I mean, that to me, some days I'll be on Instagram for four hours and I'm like, what do I just do? Right. Right. We're in my day to hell, my problem. That's how I know it's a big deal because I catch myself.

Starting point is 01:31:31 You know, a guy who didn't even have any social media just seven years ago, I mean, I catch myself getting sucked into it. I'm like, man, this happens to me. It's addictive, man. Right. The irony is, people who built their business through it, we're telling you. I know. We justify it because it's business related, right? Yeah, the irony is got people who built their business through it. We're telling you, we justify it because it's business related, right?

Starting point is 01:31:46 Yeah. How often do you meditate? If I was lying, I'd say daily, but I want to do it daily. There have been months, you know, I went to India last year for two weeks and did like a deep dive meditation all day long for two weeks. So after that, I was every single morning for like six months. And then I was like, man, I just feel so good. Maybe I don't need this as much.

Starting point is 01:32:10 You know, I don't need it every day. Like I'm good. Like why should I keep doing this every single day? I can take a few days off or like I'm busy. And then to be like a few weeks off and like I go back to it and I'm like, oh man, I start to feel a little stress again when I don't do it. So when I do it, I'm like at my best.

Starting point is 01:32:24 And it just keeps reminding me, like, okay, all I need is 12 to 15 minutes a day. And I feel, when I do that consistently, it's like lifting, it's like when you do it consistently, you're like, you stay strong. If you're like, take a week or two off. Like I took two weeks off from doing pretty much any working out during my book launch,

Starting point is 01:32:38 and I felt like, it's total shit. I just felt like crap. I was like, I stopped eating well, when I was eating so good, and I stopped training hard, and I was just like, man, I feel like crap. I was like, I stopped eating well when I was eating so good. And I stopped training hard. And I was just like, man, I feel like crap. And so I got to pick it back up. Same thing with meditation though. It's like when I take off too much, it's like, notice,

Starting point is 01:32:56 totally noticeable. Right, no, I feel the same way too. I feel the same way too. You know, looking at your wall, I know it's impossible to ask you who your favorite person. I'm not going to ask that. What I'm going to ask you, as I know everybody asked that shit, right? What I'm going to ask you who your favorite person. I'm not gonna ask that. What I'm gonna ask you, as I know everybody asked that shit, right? What I'm gonna ask you, you're gonna f**king surprised you the most. Who surprised you the most? Being a guy self-aware as you are and

Starting point is 01:33:16 socially probably aware, you probably got all these guests coming in. Who came in and you're like, oh shit. He was dressed in the wall. He's a lawn. He's a lawn. The dog guy? He surprised me because it was powerful about just like relationships and spirituality and other things. And I wasn't sure where it was going to go with him, but it was very psychical. Did he show up and go?

Starting point is 01:33:34 Shhh. Right when you go to talk. No, he didn't. But it was like, it was very powerful. I mean, talk about insightful. He was, he was, that's cool. More than just a reality star. I'll tell you that. Um, who else? Great. Say what? The one, um, Chris, Chris Voss, um, never split the difference.

Starting point is 01:33:56 This guy is freaking really powerful. Don't have his book here. It was probably one on the top 15 episodes. I've done what's his book about? I don't know the name. So I'll never split the difference. He was the lead FBI negotiator for hostage situations. Oh, shit. So he talks about when someone is crazy and giving you demands, how to navigate that situation when something's online.

Starting point is 01:34:21 He talks about that, but he applies it to like, okay, when you're doing a real estate deal, when you're getting a new client,, when you're like getting a new client, how do you negotiate? Oh, interesting. It's very fascinating. He was powerful. They were all, I mean, they're all amazing.

Starting point is 01:34:33 So yeah, when you look at the wall, that's why I said I didn't ask you your favorite. But Rob Deerdeck obviously, for me, he was actually one of the most powerful as well, because you think of like a skateboard MTV like host but this guy is brilliant. I mean, he is fucking unbelievable. Have you followed him for as long back? I mean, I've fallen for 10 years, I've been falling since Robin Bick. Like you said, for me, it's why you have two bulldogs, right? I was watching him back in college, you know, and I was just

Starting point is 01:35:00 like, this guy has the life. And he was from Ohio, so I was like, I was just like this guy has the life like it was and he was from Ohio So I was like I was leaving more connected to him because I'm from Ohio So I really resonate with what he's built and his mind and the way he's done it all the things his mind is fascinating Yeah, he is very diligent and disciplined and with every area of his life. He tracks every area of his life With a system that he built for himself every area of his life with a system that he built for himself. Taylor to his needs and his system mind blowing. Super unassuming, so unassuming. And just a brilliant, brandy mind, design mind, like just very creative.

Starting point is 01:35:34 He's got his hands, it's so much stuff. He seems like he's very humble. And I want, here's the thing, I watched him do a show. He's got a new show called Awesomeness. And so I was like, one of the go watch and support him. So I went and watched drama, who you'll see tomorrow and and Rob. I'm talking to them before in the green room or hanging out backstage or whatever. And then I go and it's like a full-on set. There's probably I don't know a couple hundred people in the audience like in a circle. Cameras everywhere. It's just a lot of moving parts. There's a panel of people. There's teleprompters.

Starting point is 01:36:03 There's people clapping. There's lights. There's like different acts people, there's teleprompters, there's people's clapping, there's lights, there's like different acts happening for this show. And he has got to be, I understand what it's like, you know, reading from a teleprompter and like managing all this other stuff that's happening. And you've got to be like so focused in the zone to like read these takes, because people are there like clapping

Starting point is 01:36:20 and trying to hit everything on the mark. And it's just like, it's a lot to navigate. Yeah. And the reason just like, it's a lot to navigate. And the reason why I believe it's successful is because he allows himself to play and have fun through it all. On set, he's doing exactly what he did in Rob B. He's like singing songs.

Starting point is 01:36:36 And he's like reading something. He's reading it as a song, like prepping for it. He's talking to the crowd. He's like just goofing around and playing. Super crispy. He's loving it. He's just like trying, he's being himself and that's why he delivers. Like when he was like, he gets in the zone and he's got to read the prompt and he's like, fuck, okay, I want to do this in one take.

Starting point is 01:36:54 But he's just like playing around and keep himself loose. Yeah. And not just like trying to be all professional, whatever. He's like, he is himself at all times. And I think that's why he crushes it because he can go into a boardroom with executives wear a ball cap and he just like is himself still. I think people resonate with that and it comes off on camera too.

Starting point is 01:37:15 So we are gonna be with drama tomorrow and you know them. So what should I get him talking about? He's talking about drama as experienced from Ohio growing up, or I think he grew up in Ohio as well, but yeah, talk about drama growing up. And if he thought he'd be doing this like fashion brand and yeah, I'm really interested in the story of, wow, Robin Biggs happening,

Starting point is 01:37:40 where is he at in his life? Is he watching, is he watching Rob? What's he thinking about? He was like the assistant or whatever, right? For Robin Biggs, he was like, oh, so he was already, he was in his life as he watching is he watching Rob? What's he thinking about he was like the assistant or whatever right for Robin big He was like oh, so he was already he was in the show. Oh, he was he was like Every episode yeah, yeah, no he was frown was in the show is like oh, I'm bringing in my cousin to like help out Pick up dog shit and do this. Yeah, you're right. He he was like the little bitch that you had to clean up after the mini-hubber relationship. That's right.

Starting point is 01:38:06 He did, he did, he brought him in with like the third or four season. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I think it was only around a couple of seasons. It went four. No, I thought it went four. I have them all.

Starting point is 01:38:14 I own them all, maybe. Maybe, right. I swung it because I went on his show the day after Big Black died. Oh wow. It was like the day before that happened. And it was like, so it was an interesting episode. I didn't really share much.

Starting point is 01:38:26 I just asked him questions a little time about how he went through that. How was he? Yeah. So I would talk about that. I mean, his brand is like evolving so much and just talk about his vision. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:37 What's your dream moving forward? 100 million and a week. Yeah, I wanna reach 100 million every week. But I wanna be, I don't need to be like the guy or the expert or any of these things, but I want to be the facilitator of everyone. So I want to facilitate conversations and be the curator of greatness

Starting point is 01:38:57 where it's like I have my own show, I get to interview the biggest people in the world and talk about the idea of the stories, the products, the things that are happening and Curate and facilitate this and make it about other people not necessarily about me, but be the center curator of it. That's the goal. Excellent. You're on your way, man. Definitely. Well, thanks for coming on. Yeah, appreciate it. We'll absolutely do this again for sure. Yeah, for sure. Come up to San Jose next time, man. Yep, come check us out. Yeah, we love it.

Starting point is 01:39:28 Excellent. Alright, so go to MindPumpMedia.com and roll in our 30 days of coaching. It's available for free. Also, check us out on YouTube MindPump TV. There's a new video every single day. Thank you for listening to MindPump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com.

Starting point is 01:39:52 The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ball, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump.

Starting point is 01:40:40 And until next time, this is Mindbomb.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 643: Lewis Howes

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