Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 649: Chris "Drama" Pfaff

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Oh, I'm excited. I'll tell you what. I'm excited. Chris Fath, otherwise known as drama, was very different, because I didn't know much about him, like you did.

Starting point is 00:00:24 Like, I know you've been following them for a while. This is why I get a little geek. This one was cool, man, for me. This was a big, you know, we talk about milestones in our business and things that, you know, and I'm not, I definitely, definitely not the guy who gets starstruck or weird or nervous around people that like, maybe I watched or that were famous.

Starting point is 00:00:43 Like so none of that. But there's definitely this respect level. And there's also this, wow, this is really cool that we're here. Because I spent many years watching him on Robin Bigg and fantasy factory. And you know, Rob Deirdrick and him are both two guys that I'm super impressed with what they've done. Not just from the reality show because that doesn't impress me. and him are both two guys that I'm super impressed with what they've done. Not just from the reality show because that doesn't impress me, it would impress me when somebody takes that from a reality show.

Starting point is 00:01:11 They pivot and they actually... And turn it into a business. And they build an empire. You know, and Rob has done that and you see Chris right now building his and man, what a cool story. Yeah, I was, cause I didn't know much about him. I knew him from Robin Bigg as drama. And when we met, I was very pleasantly surprised

Starting point is 00:01:27 the guys, super intelligent dude, very self-aware. We have a great conversations in this podcast. You gotta see where it turns. I'm really curious as a listener, as you're listening through this pay attention and tell me where you think it turns because when we set this up, Brianna was telling me, Chris was really hard to book

Starting point is 00:01:44 because he was very hard to book because he was very uncertain to do the podcast with you guys. A bunch of fitness meet-head guys, he's not a big fitness guy, he didn't want to talk about working out and fucking nutrition the entire time. You could tell that when we first sat down to start this interview that there's this little bit of not excited, I don't know where this is going to go, and then there's definitely a turning point in the episode where you can just tell We're just having a great conversation with a couple guys. So you're gonna hear us talking to Chris Faff again his podcast this short story long

Starting point is 00:02:15 He's at drama on Instagram and Facebook and his clothing line is young and reckless Dotcom so without any further ado here's Chris fast dude uh super excited to uh sit down and talk to you so I um a I was a huge robbing big fan as a kid thank you and yeah and that was the first time I and I have a bulldogs and everything so it was that big a big of a fan you and all in and I remember I remember you I don't want to bother many horror yeah I remember you being on the show and then I remember watching fantasy factory and then I remember Watching you like starch your business kind of come along man

Starting point is 00:02:52 Yeah, I kind of want to start us there. So kind of for those fans that may not know you yeah What was that like at that age being on a reality show becoming kind of a reality star and then Breaking off. Yeah, so at that age, it was absolutely insane. I mean, I came from Akrono Haya, which is very small town, very slow, very, you know what I mean? It's not a lot going on. Definitely not anything like filming a crazy MTV show. So I came here at 18 right on the edge of 19, and that stuff happened pretty quick.

Starting point is 00:03:26 Like right when I got here, they were working on the pilot for what would become Robin Bigg, and that whole process took close to a year from filming the pilot to actually airing on TV. But it was pretty quick that there was like MTV people in the house, in the living room, and there's cameras everywhere, and it just got real weird, real quick.

Starting point is 00:03:44 You know, and it's like, man, LA is weird. And it's still as weird. It still is. But now it's like, I got like the shock treatment. You know what I mean? I got like, welcome here you are and weird MTV shows. So yeah. Yeah. So, um, and then obviously that kind of went off. It became this massive hit, you know, which was another super crazy feeling because I remember one of the executive producers coming to us who did jackass and he said You know in a couple months you guys when you're walking down the street people are gonna recognize you and this is gonna change You know forever and and I remember us thinking that was so Not possible like it was just like no man like come on like I'm a regular guy

Starting point is 00:04:20 Yeah, like it's just like we had no goals of being famous or being like reality started You know, it's just like I don't know bro. famous or being like reality started. You know, it was just like, I don't know bro, thanks for the heads up and I don't think so. Anyway, so the show obviously became this massive hit and you get these weird, you get such a crazy reaction from people because they feel like they really know you. You know, like it's different than, like for instance, Tom Cruise is way more famous

Starting point is 00:04:40 than we ever were, but if you see him walking through a mall, you're not gonna run up on him and say like, Yo man, I love that one. You know what I mean? Because you don't know him. You know the character. Right. With us, they feel like they are in your house. They know your dogs. They know you're, you know what I mean? They know everything. What a great point. That is a big difference between reality, star versus somebody who's doing like an acting. I didn't even think of it. Well, how different is you probably get more people trying to butt into your shit. It really, really hard to

Starting point is 00:05:01 like. Oh my god. And I didn't, you know, like, I don't care because I always took it very lightly but like I didn't one thing I didn't think about is with my role being like the little homie getting picked on on every right I'm everyone's favorite little homie I was now I'm everyone's little homie every time I'm walking through the mall right so I'm like drama get out of here man what the hell are you doing oh shit did you never fuck with you at that age like nothing crazy like nobody ever like, try to give me a way to your, yeah, give you a swirly,

Starting point is 00:05:28 but like it was just the attitude of like, oh, drama, what are you doing here, man? And you're like, well, who are you? Like, you know, people are talking to you, like they really know you. All the sensors in your brain go off of like, oh, who is this person? But they don't.

Starting point is 00:05:39 So that's kind of like, everyone treats you with the same dynamic that you're treated on the show. So it was a real weird, crazy thing, crazy time as a whole. Do you talk about how hard that must be to try and break from that? It was hard, and I'm gonna be honest. It, not that it was some big horrible thing,

Starting point is 00:05:59 like oh my God, I was the little homie in it, ruined my life. But there was this element of like, okay, this was really fun. I was able to make some money and launch this company, but it is important to me too. I don't need to be taken too seriously, but I do want people to see me as a business owner.

Starting point is 00:06:16 And I wanted to listen to my podcast and think that maybe I'm having decently intelligent conversations and there's some value. You know, you wanna break out of that and have people kind of think of you that way. If they're always just thinking of you as the butt of the joke, obviously you can never scale that into anything.

Starting point is 00:06:31 So it was a process. And there were definitely times when I, you know, felt a little like beat up by it. You know, like I felt like, man, I just, I positioned myself one way to millions of people and that's really hard to conquer. But I do feel like finally, it's probably a couple of years ago that it really shifted,

Starting point is 00:06:51 and that I think people now more think of me for running young and reckless, and for the whole history of everything we've done, as opposed to that. So you still get it a little bit, which now it's more fun, but yeah, it was a process. But did you have intentions the whole time like getting on the show of like, you know, marketing this this closing link in your head? Or that just like happen is so here's what it was in my head

Starting point is 00:07:14 It was like we moved here and I remember there was a moment when Rob So I wasn't really supposed to have anything to do with the show originally I was just around because I was I had just moved here and my goal was to get a job at a skate shop and get a hopefully a studio apartment. That was my life dream, right? So then the show kind of started happening. There was a moment when Rob had a guy scheduled to be his assistant and he quit. He called and said he couldn't do it. And Rob said, do you want to be my assistant? And I mean, I don't even know what a personal assistant is or does. I don't know my way around the city. Like, I have no idea what that means.

Starting point is 00:07:45 And all of our friends came to me and said, man, don't do it. Because he's really, when he's working, he's really serious. And they're like, it's gonna ruin your relationship with him, like, you don't wanna mix that. Like, just don't do it. And I remember him saying, like, look man, if you wanna be involved in any of this shit

Starting point is 00:08:01 that we're doing, you know, this show and all this stuff that we're doing, this is how you do that. You know, there's no that if you're working at a skate shop, yeah, we can be friends, but like you're not going to be involved in this fun stuff that we're doing. And so I just knew like I wanted to be involved. Like I wanted to be around the action. Are you already into fashion and pop culture at this time? Yeah, like into, yes, but not, I mean, I would be lying

Starting point is 00:08:26 if I said my real passion was to start a business and to be an entrepreneur, not to change the fashion game. Even then. Yeah, even then, even then. I always wanted to be, I always saw myself as like this entrepreneurial person and that's what I always wanted to do. Not, it was never that.

Starting point is 00:08:42 My early dreams were to be a professional skateboarder but it was never like a fashion thing. I cared, I liked it, I cared how I dressed, I was a skater, and all my jeans had to be perfect, and I would stretch my shirts out so they were the right length, and yeah, all that stuff, but nothing crazy. So what happened was, I'm sorry, I'm rambling a little bit,

Starting point is 00:08:56 but I knew I wanted it on the action. So I got, I started working for Rob, did whatever I could to fit into the dynamic that was Rob and Big. The first thing I started doing was making, did whatever I could to fit into the dynamic that was Rob and Big. The first thing I started doing was making beats, making music. And so I put a lot of the music on the background of Rob and Big.

Starting point is 00:09:13 A lot of the background weird little cheek goals were in mind. Oh, whatever. Yeah, and so that was my thing. It was like, I would just give that to the executive producers and be like, here, please, please, please, please. And they did me favors because those original ones were terrible. If you'll hear, if you ever listened to a Robin Big, like, uh, uh, uh,

Starting point is 00:09:27 uh, uh, rerun and you just hear some terrible ringtone in the back, that's drama. But, um, and then you know, we did Bobby Light, the Bobby Light song. Yes. Cause I was in that. You did. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So, okay.

Starting point is 00:09:38 I'm so happy. You should. So, that was my first thing. Anyway, getting to the point when fantasy factory started, I was like, okay, this is my opportunity to really launch something, um, because it was just me and Rob at that point. And I just saw how clothing was like the perfect thing. There was a chain of retailers that were all the kids shopped who watched the show being Paxon, Zoomey's, Tilly's, right? It was dead on you, ship straight to them before you come, obviously.

Starting point is 00:10:01 And I could wear it on the show, I could market it. It just fit perfectly, that product fit perfectly with that marketing platform. And so that's when I came up with the name and the concept and figured it out. And Rob was real supportive of you doing that as far as like branding yourself and doing all that. Yeah, and I always tell this story,

Starting point is 00:10:18 and I hope that it always comes off right, because what happened when Big Black launched his clothing line on robin big Rob helped him out a lot he introduced him to a guy at DC who helped him with distribution and all that stuff so naturally when when I had the idea to do a clothing line I went to him and I said hey man here's my idea like where do I catch the check and uh and he was he essentially, look man if you want to do it, go do it. Like you're a smart guy, you can figure it out. I don't have the time to do it.

Starting point is 00:10:50 Like I just, I can't help you. And I remember at the time being like, did you risk into him a little bit? He hate me. Like I was just like, why would you not, you know, and I didn't want to push back. I was never that type of guy. But I was just like, shit man, like I've seen you help, big black and I've seen you help, these other people, but I didn't hold any real resentment, but it forced me to go figure it out

Starting point is 00:11:12 and to go meet my business partner, so I'm with now, and to really learn it and figure it out. And to be honest, if he would have said, hey DC, do this line for drama, it would have been gone right now. I mean DC's went bankrupt not too long ago, but also it just would have died. There would have been no, it It would have been gone right now. I mean, DC's went bankrupt not too long ago, but also it just would have died. There would have been no, it wouldn't have been

Starting point is 00:11:28 an actual business. I wouldn't have been invested in it. I wouldn't have known how to run it. And so I'm really, really thankful for that. And then like a year ago, he came to me because now we're a lot closer. He came to me and said, I'm gonna be honest, I just thought it was whack.

Starting point is 00:11:40 He's like, I just, he's like, I just do what I do. He's like, I just thought the name like, I just thought the name was, I just thought it was kind of like. Now it's like, he's like, he was kind of talking about wanting to invest. That's the true form. It's the really successful business that came from the show. Now I wish I blew it. That's great.

Starting point is 00:12:00 He's like, at the time, I just thought it's... You can't invest now, motherfucker. Yeah, now there's no place for you. Yeah. So as a fan of the time, I just thought it's... You can't invest now, motherfucker. Yeah, now there's no place for you. So as a fan of the show, I remember watching it. One of the things that I was drawn to was, as far as reality shows, I felt it was the most real. Yeah. Was it really that real?

Starting point is 00:12:17 I felt like you guys, even when you guys bickered a little bit or you were frustrated with them, I felt like it felt real. 100%. So I'll tell you how it went down. Number one, all of the Crew that always worked on the show always said this is the realest reality Just someone who's a fan and I felt that you could just tell yeah, and so the way it went down is this We would there'd be some crazy idea that either came from something that was really happening something rob saw online

Starting point is 00:12:41 Something big black was doing like you know something would come up And they'd be like man, that's an episode like that could be an episode something Rob saw online, something big black was doing, something would come up and they be like, man, that's an episode, that could be an episode. So what we're going to do is we're going to, obviously we'll show you getting into it or discovering it, we'll go meet with this person, I think that'd probably be a good gem. And then the ending is us doing a party to celebrate the launch of it. So they would structure it in TV form. But every right. But every moment was just whatever happens happened.

Starting point is 00:13:07 Who's the creative genius behind that? Rob, it is. One million percent, Rob. He is a genius man. Man, so that. I mean, he conceptualized, 98% of every single episode. There was a really good team of executive producers and stuff to kind of help him clean it,

Starting point is 00:13:22 or to say like, well, we don't really know how to put a butt on this scene, or transition it, or something like that. Yeah, and they were also really good at like you know There was one time the famous episode where we got attacked by sharks Well, he really let one bite him. I just screamed but We that came from driving in the car just him and I driving a car shooting an episode and there's the cameras in the car But we weren't we're just talking shit and We were just driving by the ocean and he said, how much would it take for you to get attacked by a shark?

Starting point is 00:13:48 And I'm like, no price. It's not a half a nut of number for that. But wouldn't it be cool? What if you knew it wouldn't really mess you up, but just like a scar or something? Like 10 grand, 15 grand. I'm like, zero chance, no, no dollar amount, not taking the risk. So anyway, by the time we, he's like, man, I think it would be cool. I think I would do it.

Starting point is 00:14:06 Yeah. By the time we got out of the car 10 minutes later, the producers ran up to us and said, hey, we have a place in the Bahamas. We can do a whole episode about this if you want. And we're like, okay, let's do it. So that's how like an episode would go. Dude, I think every 17 year old to probably,

Starting point is 00:14:20 almost 30 year old at that time thought, this is probably what I thought, which was, if I had all the money in the world, this is how I would spend it. Did you, especially fancy factory, that was one of those things, I was loving how, you know, like everything it was like,

Starting point is 00:14:35 all this fun shit going on, but everybody's working, and that was a crazy dynamic. It was cool, I mean, I'm gonna be honest, like there was a part, this might make me sound a little stupid, but like there was a part of me that didn't realize how much fun we were having until we stopped.

Starting point is 00:14:49 You know what I mean? And in the sense of, we didn't like the actual process of filming, of having to go every day for the whole day, you can't really have your phones on you, because you have a mic. It's a little bit tedious some days. And obviously we didn't care at all about like the fame or the any of that stuff, right?

Starting point is 00:15:06 So there were days when we were like, ah, this is just, you know, we just don't feel like doing it today. The point is, it wasn't until it was over where I'm like, man, we really like that. It was like we had like a blank check. And like, just, and, because you have this budget, you have an MTV budget.

Starting point is 00:15:20 And you have a team of producers and creatives to help you figure out how to actually do it. So any idea, they'll figure out in 10 minutes where you can go do it and what the different options are. What was your favorite one? Oh man. Uh, remember the lotto, I remember that was hilarious. Uh, how do you guys have done so many great, great fucking ideas.

Starting point is 00:15:40 Yeah, cause there's so many different, um, there's different man. Like when we did some of the original episodes with big black and and his bam bam and his friends and Uncle Jerry Came out from Alabama. I don't know if you remember that or not That was during the Bobby light dirty girl episode those were so fun just because it was like it was just homies hanging out Yeah, it was just so so so real But I would also say like you know, I got there was an episode where I got shot out of a cannon That was like one of the scariest things in my life. But like, being able to have the opportunity to do that,

Starting point is 00:16:10 right now is like, insane. Also, scuba diving with sharks. Like, we didn't have, we didn't have any sort of lessons or anything. They took us in a above ground pool for 30 minutes, said, here's how you take your regulator out. Here's how you put it back in. All right, here we go.

Starting point is 00:16:24 Good luck, and like, you're 60 feet down on our shipwreck. Yeah, no problem. So I don't know, man, there were just so many, I could name a million, there were so many good experiences. Yeah, when did the urge for the pop culture and the fashion thing happen? I mean, you're definitely into it now. Did that start to really evolve in fantasy factory?

Starting point is 00:16:42 Or what? Yeah, so I would say that like, so on Robin Bigger started doing the music stuff and obviously that kind of gets you into pop culture world a little bit, but fantasy factory is just where I, I think that I was probably 22 or maybe 23 when that started. And so naturally that's just when I started to like,

Starting point is 00:17:00 19 to 22, I say that I was just figuring out what LA even was, you know what I was just figuring out what LA even was. And what it was even not living in Ohio was like. So at that age is when I really started kind of growing up and getting into whatever I was into. And I just kind of went in that direction. Like I was always in the like rap and rappers and that stuff growing up.

Starting point is 00:17:21 And this was just was my like adult version of it. And I put the studio in the fantasy factory and also like what happened was you know every so the way it happens in this weird world of LA is when you have a show and obviously you have a place as cool as the fantasy factory every celebrity would reach out to come see it. Just to hang out. Just to hang out and you would get these weird calls you know that people just wanted to come see it. Like I remember one day my friend of a friend of a friend called and said, hey, little Wayne wants to come skate,

Starting point is 00:17:48 the fancy factory. And this is when little Wayne was the biggest celebrity in the world. And you're in the rap. And I'm in the rap. And I'm in the skating. And this guy is like an alien, you know? And so I'm like, oh man, okay.

Starting point is 00:17:59 And so I go down, I end up going down by myself. And I go down and his tour bus pulls up. And I'm like holy shit. We're just smoking. Maybe I like a few F.O. hands and whatever. And then he hops out with a skateboard and he's like, what's up drama? And I'm like, what the hell?

Starting point is 00:18:17 Like the English knows who I am. I'm like, I'm not. And then he just went and skated for three hours. And that had been crazy. Because little weight at that time too was just Mass yeah, so I guess what I'm getting at is I'm super rambly today. I apologize That's how we roll man So I'm getting at is like it just became this intersection of like I'm making music I have a clothing line that I'm trying to market and get on celebrities anyway

Starting point is 00:18:42 Celebrities want to come to the fantasy factory. I have a studio there. I mean, at the time in the studio, I was work, before they were, they were nobody's. I was working with Miguel Kendrick Lamar, YG. Those are just the people that were in there as these new up and coming artists. So it was just this really cool energy and that's where all of those things kind of intersect. And it's such formidable years. I mean, those are years of growth for everybody. Yeah. How did they influence your growth as a person?

Starting point is 00:19:06 I just think they taught me like the, they taught me the hunger and the reality of like this entrepreneur life and like the hustle. You know, and it's like you got to reach out to the next person and ask for the favor and do the favor and connect with that person. Does it happen? Yes. In 100% and it never stops and it's still, there's still days on my podcast where I'll reach out to people. I texted Puffy the other day to see if you would do the podcast.

Starting point is 00:19:30 It's the most uncomfortable out of pocket. You don't need to, it's ridiculous. But you have to just ask the crazy favors. And constantly, and I think that it taught me in that phase, what it really takes to grind it out and build something in this weird world of entertainment. Yeah, it's all the relationships. It's not what you know, it's always been

Starting point is 00:19:52 when you're not here. You're true net worth is your net circle, man. Yeah, it's so true, man. And it just never stops. I think that when I was younger, I had this fantasy of hitting this made it point where everyone just comes to you and you can just do anything.

Starting point is 00:20:04 You know what I mean? Like, let me just get so and so on the phone I will exit you It's like and it just never happens, you know and That's where I really learned to a talk about that actually because I bet a lot of people think I'm sure you have got They had this before who think oh well he was on the show and he's got Rob and of course he's successful I mean, I'm sure like he they probably think it's easy to talk about the grind and the hustle for someone like, yeah, and that's another thing that used to, I think, bother me when

Starting point is 00:20:31 I was younger, but it's like, I think now is the story plate. Like if young and reckless were to crash and burn a few years ago, I probably would have had to live with that for a long time. That would have been tough. You know, that would have been like, so he was only Robin or so. So it was like, it was your ride. It was. No.

Starting point is 00:20:48 But I think that now, that it's kind of evolved past that. It's been like when you look at the whole picture. And for me, the biggest scariest part that I try to tell young people is, was when I left Ohio. It was saving up the money and then filming little league football games and selling DVDs to parents to try to get $2,000. Oh, you were hustling like that, don't you? Yeah, and I was making skate videos of my friends

Starting point is 00:21:13 and selling them to the local skate shops and saying, look what the kids in Akron are doing by this video. So I scrounged together close to five grand from these weird little odd jobs. And you're only like 18 right now, how old are you right now? 16, you know, 16. Oh shit, well, oh shit. And then when I was 18,

Starting point is 00:21:29 I had a really bad head injury, right? I was, my plan was to graduate high school a month later, move to LA. So a week after graduating, we went to this big skate park opening. I fell, hit my head, skating, fractured my skull, was in a coma for four days,

Starting point is 00:21:43 braiding, yeah, polish, Polish flot in my brain. So I, and I woke up and I was devastated because number one, I didn't know how to read or food had no taste. And it was this weird thing, right? And they were like, how you have a blood clot in your brain from the fracture and you can't leave. You can't go to L.A. you can't leave.

Starting point is 00:22:01 And it messed me up. Like it just gave me a lot of, you know, it just really bummed me out, gave me a lot of, you know, it just really bummed me out, gave me a lot of anxiety. They always said, you know, at any point you could have seizures, you could, you know, at least you could have these sort of after effects. So the point was, scrounged all that together,

Starting point is 00:22:13 moved to LA, and I remember the first week of being here, not to sound like a baby, but called my mom every night, like I don't think I can do this. Like this is just too crazy. It's too out of my element. Well dude, it's so extreme. Like talk about that, like how different were you guys grew up? Cuz you grew up kind of like I did like total farm town out in the middle of nowhere kind of small

Starting point is 00:22:30 Probably everybody drive down one street probably know everybody in the neighborhood type of deal hundred percent It's so different even still now when I go to New York like I can only last in New York like three days Cuz it's still too much like yeah, like I've adjusted to LA, but New York is like expert level and I just Expert level I can't get there, man. Two stimulating. They move fast. It is. You feel like you just can't get a moment of like quiet.

Starting point is 00:22:49 You know, you're always, there's people on top of you. So anyway, for me it was about, it was the whole process of getting out of my comfort zone and coming to LA and trying to figure it out. And when I moved here, Rob was a pro skateboarder. You know, he wasn't a rich celebrity. I mean, he was doing well, but we kind of went on this whole journey together and we built these things together. And that's why I think that my goal now is to really tell people what I learned and how I did what I did and share as much information

Starting point is 00:23:22 as possible, because it's not, it doesn't help me in any way to like try to be too Cool for school and think that I'm some right now hot What drove you to do all that because I mean looking back It takes some balls take some balls to make that that big leap from where you were to come out to LA and not know anything Just Tim for just a childhood. I mean how were you like financially as a kid like yeah, so financially as a kid I mean we might I I mean, how were you like, financially as a kid? Yeah, so financially as a kid, I mean, I had the parents that were, we didn't have a lot of money, but they,

Starting point is 00:23:49 we never knew that. Like we never knew that money was even a thing. You know, like we would take the yearly trip to Myrtle Beach, pack up the minivan, and we drive on down, you know what I mean? And, and we had, you know, a bike when we needed a bike, you know, but they just did a good job at not like, it wasn't like we were worried about where our next meal

Starting point is 00:24:07 was gonna come from, but they just did a really good job of not us not worrying about it. But I knew that for anything outside of that, I had to hustle and I was always drawn to the hustle, not the job. I never had a real job. Like I said, I would go, I learned how to film

Starting point is 00:24:24 because I was filming my friend's skateboard. So, and then I bought a Mac because I was editing skateboard videos. So then I realized that there's not really money there in Akron, Ohio. But what I could do is I could go to, it started with my little cousin's Little League football game,

Starting point is 00:24:36 and I would go and I would sit there for the whole game and film the game. And then I would come back next week with DVDs of the game for the parents and say, hey, 20 bucks, you know, you can buy your watcher kid whatever run around the field and run into each other and and Little stuff like that is what I was always trying to do so I Realized that 30 years old now I

Starting point is 00:24:58 Just love The progress like I love the journey process something starting something. Yeah, it's not it's not as tied to money as I thought it was. It's not traveling for me. That's not a thing. Yeah, maybe it will be one day. It's like trying to start businesses or trying to start things and trying to put them out to the world and see how people react. Even the podcast, I make zero dollars off the podcast and I have no plan to. But it's so cool to sit with these guests, try to figure out the best format. How can I really, you know, blow up?

Starting point is 00:25:30 What's the cover art look like? What's my little set look like? And then put it out and I'm just sitting there hitting refresh, refresh, refresh, and seeing what the views are. You know, I just like that. And when I'm not doing that, that's when I start to go nuts. Do you hate boredom? Yeah, I do.

Starting point is 00:25:46 I do, I'm okay. The reason why I'm hesitating is because I'm not one of those guys that always has to be around a lot of people or like always has to be doing something. I can be at home, but I have to be, you know, reading a new book or working on a new release plan for some, you know, like I have to be doing something with a purpose.

Starting point is 00:26:04 I'm really bad at like just chilling for the sake of chilling, you know, it's always been a... Which feeds, which feeds well into a clothing line because talk about how hard that is. I mean, every week now trend is changing, like how do you keep up with it? I failed like five times already. Oh yeah, I failed. And I think when we tried to do other lines with other people times already. Oh, you made it. I failed. I failed. And I think when we went and tried to do other lines with other people that were similar

Starting point is 00:26:27 to what Young and Reckless was and failed. You have to talk about that. Tell me how hard that is. Yeah, so it's how. It's insanely hard, especially now, because like you guys said, it changes so quick. And it used to be like, you would design your collection a year early, you would prebook it, so you knew what people were going to buy. You would design in seasons four your collection a year early, you would pre-book it, so you knew what people were gonna buy, you would design in seasons four of them a year,

Starting point is 00:26:49 you would shoot your campaign, let's say you wanna go get like a celebrity or a brand ambassador, you shoot your campaign and that's your spring campaign and you are done. And I'm not to say it's not a lot of work, but it's a lot easier to schedule and to put into those springs. So, I'm more mule.

Starting point is 00:27:04 Yeah, and now that is completely dead. And if you are in any way working in seasons as far as I'm concerned in fashion, you're losing. Splendid. Splendid. Splendid seasons now. Yeah, they're just, it's just like, people wear long sleeves in the winter.

Starting point is 00:27:19 That's a good point. Explain what you mean by that. So what I mean is, like I said, that's the only way of doing it. The new way is all that you know for a fact is people buy more long sleeve things in the winter and short sleeve things in the summer, right? There's your seasons. But what you do is you you know, you say here is a run of okay

Starting point is 00:27:35 Jeans are doing well for us. We tested with two different styles really low quantities, but they performed really well So now we're gonna go design really low quantities, but they performed really well. So now we're gonna go design 15 different styles of denim, and we're gonna order 20,000 units and bring those in ASAP. Now on the flip side, these button up shirts that we did aren't performing very well. So we're gonna bail on those, try to get rid of them,

Starting point is 00:27:57 either do like a flash sale or send it to an off price place or something like that, and make room for something new. Okay, looks like we just launched Hoodies two weeks ago and they're crushing it. We need five more styles of that type of hoodie. Looks like blah, blah, blah, blah. It looks like it's constantly that every single day.

Starting point is 00:28:14 Now do you keep, do you get on that? Do you enjoy that? Yeah, I like it. I like it. It's one of those love hates. Do you like that Taylor? When did you start Younger McLears? What year was it?

Starting point is 00:28:22 It was 2009. 2009. Yeah, so that's when Street Wear was popped. Yeah, so let me tell you this too, like my model when I started Young and Reckless was this. I wanted to, I saw how cool Street Wear was. It was killing it at that time. What brands were influencing you at that time?

Starting point is 00:28:40 Diamond, the hundreds, obviously supreme, Crooks and Castles, and all the Fairfax guys. I liked it, man, and I used to go get close from them when we were filming Rob and Big. Like I was wearing a lot of diamond, and Rob started Rogue status, which turned into DTA, the show with all the guns on it. So here's what happened.

Starting point is 00:29:00 I realized like where I grew up in Ohio, you don't have access to anything cool, and definitely not cool brands like that and out here in L.A. In New York people are waiting in line overnight to buy a $50 gild and t-shirt, right? Like what the hell is going on? So my thought was okay, what if I made a brand that had a strong message and felt connected to the customer But didn't have that pride issue. I sold in malls, I was at Tilly's, I was everywhere, right? Because at the time it was at the tail end of like the action sports thing being really big. The best selling shirt was like a Fox

Starting point is 00:29:32 racing t-shirt at Paxon. And so I said, what if I give that kind of streetwear vibe, but to the malls, but that was like, that was looked at as like, dude, you're just grazing over some brilliance, right now.. You're gonna stop me then. You're grazing over brilliance right now because the fact that you pay attention to that shit, so many people think they're just gonna start up a t-shirt brand. It's just thinking,

Starting point is 00:29:53 oh yeah, I think it's so much of, you just wanna be cool, right? Yes. You can probably speak to that. With the street wear guys. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, that's where a lot of them got screwed. And I like those guys, and this is no diss to them,

Starting point is 00:30:05 but where a lot of them got screwed is, they really started this thing as like, the homies started making some t-shirts, and it became a thing, and then they start, then you start to become cool around all the other homies, and then you get your store on Fairfax, and now you have like, purpose.

Starting point is 00:30:19 Like your whole life is about just like, yeah, I'm the dude from the thing. Like, yeah, yeah. And all of a sudden, you're going to trade shows and like, you're all wearing the same shit and you're being real tough. And like, we're ready to fight someone over our T-shirts. And what the problem is like,

Starting point is 00:30:32 T-shirt wars. Yeah, T-shirt wars. Meet me on Fairfax. But when it started to blow up and the actual category of streetwear became really popular, they weren't prepared. They were bad operators. They weren't prepared to blow up a business.

Starting point is 00:30:44 And so a lot of them, a few of them tried, a few of them did really well and made a lot of money, but nobody's really still killing it from that sort of phase. It kind of blew up. A lot of them made a lot of money, and now you don't really hear about a lot of them anymore. And like I said, I love those guys to death, and they were a lot of my inspiration for starting young and reckless, but they weren't ready for to operate a business on that level and sell to those type of stores and deal with returns and all the shit that happened. So purely operational mistakes, like a business mistakes. Yeah, and it just proves to you like brand is so important and brand is like it's everything man, but if

Starting point is 00:31:19 you can't back it up with a plan and and a distribution plan, and an operational, you're not running a sound business, you're gonna hit a wall. But I think that's why a lot of, there's always kind of the big handoff, right? A lot of companies start and explode, and then they usually sell or take on money. And at that point, when that happens, that's when you're getting the operations, right?

Starting point is 00:31:39 That's when those people are coming in and saying, okay, here's how we actually scale this business. It's really rare that any business has blown up to its full potential with the original founders, you know, but I think in streetwares, it's just a little easier to spot because the founders look like skater kids, you know what I mean? Like you can spot them. You're not welcome on Fairfax with a suit and a Goldman Sachs briefcase, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:32:02 So what I was getting at is, that was the goal. I said, man, I can do this. Like, I can make a street wear brand. I always used to joke street wear with no pride, right? Street wear, but I'll sell it anywhere. I'll sell the fuck. I'm curious to how do I care. We're all young and reckless, right?

Starting point is 00:32:18 And so, that's what we did. And we went to pop. You're mom's young, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always used to tell that story too. My mom called me when they was like, Chris DeFerricks wanted to let you know, I'm gonna be reckless today.

Starting point is 00:32:27 Yeah, I'm gonna be reckless. And I was like, why mom, what happened? She's like, well, my recipe for cookie said to put one teaspoon in, but I put three. And I'm like, mom, you killed it. Like, you're living the brand. I'm doing it. I'm doing it, I'm doing it.

Starting point is 00:32:39 So anyway, so we did that. We got a lot of backlash for that. A lot of people, especially the Fairfax guys hated us for that. You know, it was just like you were just whacked. Like you're selling out, right? Yep, and sure enough, a lot of them sold to the malls right after we did.

Starting point is 00:32:53 Just saying, they are making some money over there. So that happened. I guess what I'm getting at is, shit, I'm rambling. What I'm getting at is that business model is now gone because of ecom so you can order supreme anywhere in the world it doesn't matter where you live it doesn't matter if you're an acronym Ohio it doesn't matter who you are totally changed the game yeah used to be this elite thing you could they wouldn't even it wasn't even a good vibe when you went in their stores they didn't want you in there they only wanted

Starting point is 00:33:21 the cool guys in there you know what I mean mean? Who was the first to pivot? You know, once I changed. Well, pivot how to e-commerce. Yeah. The first, I don't know who was the first. Well, what do you think about the way that it's evolved and like what you would consider streetwear today? Yeah, because I guess so so so what I'm the point to that I'm trying to make is like so now that's gone right so me being a streetwear brand Selling to the malls is not even that doesn't even sound cool any that doesn't sound interesting because it's not a thing Because first of all all malls are closing and second of all you can get streetwear at malls now So the new thing is

Starting point is 00:33:55 Also in that time h&m top shop unit glow all those places came here and expanded since young and reckless has started They weren't really here when young and reckless started So now you can get a full outfit that looks just like your favorite rapper, athlete, celebrity, for 30 bucks, you can get the whole thing. I can't compete with that. I don't have, there's nothing I can do with those prices.

Starting point is 00:34:15 So my goal now is, how do I, our main focus is Ecom, how do you sell a full collection as affordable as humanly possible, but attach a strong brand? And I'm going to ask you the kid to pay 15% more to buy young and reckless jeans than H&M jeans, but you have the young and reckless tag and you have the brand. And we're also going to curate music and artists and we're going to give you this lifestyle. I think that's something I can accomplish.

Starting point is 00:34:43 What are the strategies that you're putting in place to do that? It's really, number one, the hardest part is just sourcing the product. Like we're making, we're doing jeans two for 70 bucks and we're doing two for 30 printed teas and packs of three t-shirts for 20 bucks. We're doing really, really well on prices, but that's a mission to try to figure that out and to keep your quality right. Right. So what you do is we're trying to nail that as much as we can, and then we're really trying to kind of also elevate the marketing and make it look even more

Starting point is 00:35:16 expensive and make sure that we work even more with people that we really believe in and make sure that the quantity of content is there because now you put it out today and it's completely, they forget about it tomorrow, right? Like we could have Barack Obama wearing a young and reckless t-shirt today, and by Monday, it would never happen. You know what I'm saying? It used to be like 50 cent war echo on TRL, and the brand blows up, you know?

Starting point is 00:35:40 But those days are just gone. So it's quantity. It's like, what's our brand message, what's our values, pump that out as much as we can, make it feel elevated and then sell the clothing for an affordable price. I think if you do all that, you create a world that's like, oh, this is something of value.

Starting point is 00:35:55 To those great trip down memory lane right there. TRL. So yeah, it's a fraud. Yes, I'm telling you. It used to be, like, if you hear those stories, it's like, yeah, the moment he wore it on blah blah blah blah. I was just exploded you know but now like nobody cares. How do you feel about you know the days of Amazon now that that being the big juggernaut?

Starting point is 00:36:13 It's like half of me thinks it's so amazing and so cool and I love everything they're doing and half of half of me is scared for my life because you know it's I am in a business that that they could just steamroll to a degree. You know what I mean? I think they're doing everything so well. They do such a good job on everything they do. I'm curious to see how branded apparel fits in

Starting point is 00:36:37 to what they're doing. It's gonna be very interesting. It's because it seems like brands, for a lot of things don't matter anymore because now you wanna to look and see Oh, this has got five star rating. This has got five star rating. That's all I care about but close a little bit different Right close have style and fashion. Yep, so they seem to be a little bit protected from that But also here's one of my theories is I believe that okay, so let's put ourselves in a make believe

Starting point is 00:37:01 high school and When we were all in high school, you would walk down the hallway and you would see the kids, the hot topic kids, and the Fubu kids, and that, right? And that is how you said who you were, and what type of person you were, and that's why you would pay $40, $30 for a screen-printed t-shirt, right?

Starting point is 00:37:18 The value is not there, it's the brand, right? Now when you walk through a school, what says who you are is what's on your Snapchat. And what do you have the iPhone X? The iPhone X is a thousand dollars. It's an accessory. Really nice outfit. It's a very high school.

Starting point is 00:37:32 Well, taking the Apple's a luxury brand, that's what they say. 100% and what's your do you have the Apple watch? What's your phone case? What's on your Snapchat? What are your soundcloud playlists? That is what says who you are. So if you have now, then you go stack it

Starting point is 00:37:44 with some H&M genes or some affordable stuff because it doesn't even really matter as much anymore. That's how you kind of put together your life now and express yourself. So just brands don't mean as much in a parallel either unless you're actually providing real value. And I think that value is not only through the clothing and the quality and the price, but also what are you giving that kid? Are you telling them what music to listen to? Are you telling them what podcasts are cool?

Starting point is 00:38:11 Are you actually, you know, those subscribe to you. The whole brand. Yeah, those tap into you. If you're actually giving them something of value, you know, but if you just say like, we're the coolest because we're just looking at the set. And was that part of your motivation to do the podcast? 100%.

Starting point is 00:38:27 So two big motivations, because we covered them both. One was that was how can I offer something? And the thing that I'm so passionate about is I moved to LA, I got out of my comfort zone, and I was exposed to what's possible. That's it. Like I saw, I watched an MTV show be created. I watched people become superstars.

Starting point is 00:38:45 I watched brands be created. I watched DC Shoes go from $1 million in revenue to $500 million after the Robin Big Explosion. I watched it. That was the greatest gift. So what I try to do is let other people see it. Just interview people, humanize them, say, this is how they did it.

Starting point is 00:39:02 It's not that big of a deal. They've had their hard times too. They've had their good times. This is their idea came to them in the shower. This one came when they were hiking. Here's the reality. You can do that too. So it was that mixed with wanting to continue to tell who I am. And get at, you know, just tell my story.

Starting point is 00:39:19 Why do you, once again, why do you follow me on Instagram? If it's just because I have cool pictures and because I'm the guy from the clothing thing, it's not gonna work. I'm not gonna build an audience that way. If you follow me because I'm a young entrepreneur that is around other young entrepreneurs and I expose you to cool ideas and cool strategies

Starting point is 00:39:35 that I'm trying and books that I'm reading and by the way, here's our new collection and here's how we made it. That's some value. And you wouldn't know this unless you listen to you, like I'm listening to you right now, talking. You know, I mean. that's the thing and also you know like once again the gift in the curse is most people that do know who I am that don't like subscribe to what I'm doing now think the opposite. Like they just think the guy I don't know he's the fucking guy from the thing like he was on the show

Starting point is 00:39:58 and then he had like a clothing thing or the young and restless like the soap opera. I don't know. You know but like in the rest of the day dude please don't be mad. I don't know, you know, but like Dude, please Oh my god, now if I had it one day we were filming on the set of the bold and the beautiful because it was Rob's mom's favorite thing They asked me to take my hat off because the young and restless set was next door Like can you please take that off? I'm like it's not the same. They're like please you're gonna start a war Oh, that's hilarious. No. Can you please take that off? And I'm like, it's not the same. They're like, please, you're gonna start a war. Oh, that's hilarious. There's no Y&R in the building. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:28 Fuck you, it was gonna come out. Hey, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just noticed that like I love doing the TV stuff and having fun and getting shot out at cannons and attacked by bulls, I really do. But there's a different type of sort of fulfillment that I get when I'm sitting talking to young entrepreneurs.

Starting point is 00:40:44 So I'm talking about mindset habits. So I'm talking about mindset habits or I'm talking about daily routine like just stuff that I really Like and apply every day. So I want to pursue that as much as I can and share that information And you know the same thing that everyone wants I want a kid to come up to me one day and say like I truly Live the life that I didn't think I'd be able to because of you, because you exposed me to that. Because that's what happened to me. Does it feel like a bigger purpose than everything? On other words, do you feel like this is just a bigger purpose than? Yeah, I think that it is a purpose.

Starting point is 00:41:12 I don't think the other stuff was a purpose. That was part of the problem, right? And I hope that doesn't get taken the wrong way, but it's fun filming a show and I made okay money. And even launching the brand was cool, but That's not a that's I didn't have a talent. I wasn't famous for a talent I wasn't famous because people like my music. I wasn't even that funny I fit into the dynamic well. That's what I was good at if I had a gift on fantasy factory Robin big It was knowing where the hole was for me and filling it right?

Starting point is 00:41:44 But so people aren't coming up to you saying, man, that song helped me through a tough time. You know, I get like, my dude, you shouldn't have pulled, you shouldn't have pulled, you shouldn't have pulled. So yeah, I think I was kind of searching for a little bit of that purpose. And I think that it then led me to starting young and reckless and then led me to realize that I loved entrepreneurship and I loved that. And so now talking to other entrepreneurs,

Starting point is 00:42:12 trying to teach people how to achieve, trying to teach people that they can get out of their comfort zones and they can do some stuff that they really don't think that they can do, that is my purpose. You know, we hear a lot about your generation and the younger generation, the millennials, if you will. There's a lot of shit to talk about.

Starting point is 00:42:28 But I see like this huge explosion of like entrepreneurship. Yeah, crazy. Is that just that? Am I just, am I crazier? Is that legit? Cause I see a lot of kids, you know, when they're mid 20s and early 30s and they want to. To the hustle of it.

Starting point is 00:42:43 Yeah, it's different than when I was a kid, it wasn't the same. It's definitely a debate to be had. I don't know yet. I think that I'm on the tail end, right? Like I'm like a millennial cusp, millennial adjacent, because I didn't grow up pointing a phone at my face and telling people what I'm doing still feels really stupid.

Starting point is 00:43:01 Oh good, we're all the same thing. Thank God, it feels like. I can do this. I was going to do this all day long right here or standing in front of tons of people but to talk to the phone still is too weird. So I, yeah, so I don't, I didn't get that. I'm forcing myself anytime I'm doing stuff like that. But I did come with a little bit of that, I think, you know, the fact that you even can,

Starting point is 00:43:22 like we always joke about, if you dropped out of college 10 years ago and said I'm gonna go start a business. They'd be like well. We'll see you on skid row You know what I mean, but now if you do it they'd be like hell yeah, you are. Yes, gonna be awesome You're gonna be just like Gary V You know It's accepted now now. I think that the bad thing that comes from that is everybody thinks they can do it everyone thinks They don't realize a hard much hard work is involved now and it more about like, do you look like you're doing it better than you're actually doing it? Oh, what a good point. Right, like people get really good at looking like

Starting point is 00:43:51 they're getting really good. And I think that that is a problem. That's becoming a skill. Thank you, Instagram. Yeah, thank you, man, for screwing up our youth. But no, I think that that's really dangerous. So if I could make my stance in the debate, I would say, I think there will be more entrepreneurs

Starting point is 00:44:09 and self-made people because of it, because just of simply more people trying. Like if you had any more people to do it almost. Yeah, you're gonna have more. If you, let's just say you had a thousand people try before, if you have 10,000 try more, try this year, you're gonna have double the success rate. But I think you're gonna have a lot of people really confused and really lost.

Starting point is 00:44:29 Why isn't working? Yeah, like what? I'm doing everything right. My post got a thousand like. Yeah. Like what was taking so long? So yeah, I think that it's, you know, I think it's dangerous. But I want it, my goal is to try to find a way to like,

Starting point is 00:44:44 and I haven't been doing a very good job of it yet, but to try to give like Realness not all the fluff, you know, and the like, I don't know. There's a lot of just fluff entrepreneur talk out there. Yeah There is of course and to try to really say like this is how you do it. I'm doing a campaign with 21 Savage and here's what I'm doing Why I'm doing it why I'm hoping that it will work. It's cool, like I'm trying to do more of that without coming off too harsh, because sometimes I listen to myself and I'm like, you sound like a drill instructor, like, you know what I mean, like, get out there and you've got to find how many units and like, let me care some about that. So finding that sweet spot, I think.

Starting point is 00:45:18 Yeah, but that was the brilliance that I was talking about. I mean, you do your homework. It's not like you just thought of a cool, I think most kids think, build a cool page, make myself look cool, get a good camera, they're thinking of all those. The brand is just the logo. Right, that's what stops. I think they don't like the process.

Starting point is 00:45:31 Right, going back to what you mentioned. Oh yeah, no, yeah. But they don't even know that they like it or don't like it because they've never even tried it. Like, it's like, I always, I use this comparison for everything, but it's the same thing as going to the gym and being in shape, right? It's like, nobody likes it. Nobody actually is like, yes, 10 more.

Starting point is 00:45:47 I can't wait. What? It doesn't happen, but you don't realize how nice it is and how it's an added benefit to your existence when you learn to enjoy that suffer. I'm saying, and I think that's the same as how I look at running a business. I know there's a lot of days where I'm like, and I think that that's the same as how I look at running a business. I know there's a lot of days where I'm like, holy, are you kidding me? This is what I have to do. It's terrible.

Starting point is 00:46:12 But when you go home at night on those days, you feel extra good. So accomplished. It's the day when I come in here, when everything's just on autopilot, and I'm just kind of walking around making sure everyone's good, I go home and want to punch myself in the face. Those are the bad days. And I just think a lot of young people, a lot of people. I don't think it's even, I think this is a thing that has repeated itself for a very long time. I think people have not given an honest try to know whether it's for you.

Starting point is 00:46:37 I think one of the biggest lies is that, you know, you need to be motivated. Like I need to be motivated, pumped up to do things. And what people realize is that motivation, like any emotion is an emotion. You get it, and it goes away, and then what? It's the one you're not motivated that you can become successful.

Starting point is 00:46:54 And one thing I'm real big onto is motivation follows action. Action doesn't follow motivation, right? So like what I've learned is, I don't sit and wait. It's like, well, not feeling it, do you know what? I'm not feeling it today either. Well, we tell you to inspire.

Starting point is 00:47:08 Like, you go, go do something. Go start, you know, come to the office, work on something and you'll find the thing. Is that create motion? Well, create motion, is that what it goes for? Yeah, motion creates motion, motion creates motion. Yeah, and I think that there's a motion. Oh, no, there's a motion in the ocean.

Starting point is 00:47:22 Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's what I know. I know that one too. So yeah, I just think there's a lot of people that are kind of spending their whole life sitting waiting for that strike of motivation to hit them. And you just don't realize that it comes from like messing up and feeling stupid and feeling awkward and losing and you know. Now outside of you obviously you're the field you work in and you're podcasting. Is there anything else that sparks your interest or things that you're into? Little stuff. I like photography still. It's lingering from my days of filming and taking photos as a skater. I like it, but I just don't. I'm not out walking to the park taking photos of trees. I just can't. I don't know where. Maybe if I go on good vacations one day.

Starting point is 00:48:01 walk into the park taking photos of trees. Like I just can't, I don't know where. Maybe if I go on good vacations one day. No, man, I hate to sound so... You're passionate about what you do. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. It's very, very consuming when you're into what you do, man. Yeah, no, I just, yeah. I like reading books and stuff,

Starting point is 00:48:18 but all the books I'm reading are like entrepreneurial. So I gotta get out of that. I gotta read some more like history stuff or something else, interesting. But yeah, I'm pretty I'm pretty focused on on what I do and another than that. I who are your favorite entrepreneurs? Oh man, that's a tough one. I would say you know The list that's coming to mind is the obvious. It's the Elon Musk the you know Steve Jobs

Starting point is 00:48:44 He was an asshole, but what, he was an asshole, but what he created was, I don't like his personality, but what he created was brilliant. Jeff Bezos, all the go-to, I don't have some. Have you read the four yet? The four. No. Well, the four is about the big four companies.

Starting point is 00:49:03 Is it those guys? Yeah. It's a book. Yeah, it's their about the big four companies. Is it those guys? Yeah. It's a book. Yeah, it's their game plan. I'm gonna write it. It's like the four horseman, dude. It's my favorite book I've read all year. I'm writing it down.

Starting point is 00:49:11 Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think if I have any like really cool niche one that you're gonna be in there. Well, Rob's got to be in there. Well, of course he is. But I, he's like my brother. You know, like I'm a fan of him as a whole. Like I don't even think of him as like,

Starting point is 00:49:27 I'd put on a drink or he's like, yeah, he's, it's my brother. That's awesome. Any favorite guests you've had on your show so far? Our mutual friend Tom, Tom Billio, is amazing. I interviewed Tim Ferris who's on this coming week's episode. He was great. He was like, so is it different than you would expect it or was he exactly?

Starting point is 00:49:50 He was different. You want to know what? I, once again, just being honest, sometimes on his podcast, I feel like he comes off a little arrogant. And I just think it's his, I just now that I've met him, I think it's just how his personality sort of comes up. He was the nicest guy. And he came here by himself and it was at 8 30 in the morning on a Sunday because that's he could squeeze it in before he left town and he just came with two

Starting point is 00:50:11 Big duffle bags and he had been out of town for like the last five weeks But everything he needed was in these two duffle bags including his whole podcast recording setup like he just lives He is Tim Ferris like there's not a piece of him that is not who he says he is. But it just, I think the big thing to me was he was so, so nice and so willing to just sit for hours and talk about anything. I feel like we're surprised more than we actually are right on. Most times when we have a guest, we think they're gonna be, he might be boring and like, so true.

Starting point is 00:50:40 Don't you feel like that? I feel like you, that's what I love about this. Well, the thing about podcasting that we've noticed and realized is that podcasters it's like this it still is and I'm sure it's going to change because everybody's getting into podcasting now but it seems like this this great community like everybody kind of wants to help each other grow and do well. When we first started we were nobodies and we would meet these big podcasters and they were totally helpful like they'd want us to succeed and come on my show and I'll be on your show. And it was like, oh, this is a house. You know, I kind of like no shit.

Starting point is 00:51:10 Like seriously, it was it's pretty awesome. It's so cool. And I will say that that was one thing that I hated about, um, about the streetwear. I was just saying apparel's like the opposite. Apparel's like fitness for us. Oh, just a lot of territorial. Oh, yeah, a lot of insecure camps. You're in that. Camps, you're in that camp. Oh, you're that. Okay, that's what you wear. That's how fitness is just like that.

Starting point is 00:51:30 It is so stupid. That's kind of what inspired MindPomp was to break that mold. So the three of us have taught, we've been in 15, 20 years, but we all have different backgrounds. And we share the positive things about all the different modalities of training. But within our community, it's not like that. It's like my my way's better than your way, and it's like, who's dropping studies to prove that? Well, the way what we're doing is better than what they're doing over there. And it's like, no, there's something to do.

Starting point is 00:51:52 It's insecurities. A lot of insecurities, a lot of big egos and fragile egos. But in podcasting, we haven't seen that. Really haven't. Everybody's been super fucking cool. And smart. It's so pretty smart. That's the cool thing. Not too many like complete idiots. No. I, and if so, they're really funny. Yeah, there's something. Yeah, that goes for it.

Starting point is 00:52:11 But it's just weird how an entire industry can, like, the culture can be insecure. You know, like, it's, like, because that's how clothing is, like, they will fight. People will fight each other over, like, clothing shit. Like, it's so, That's exactly how it finishes. Like the last big fitness convention down here in LA, there was the-

Starting point is 00:52:28 It was a fist fight, wasn't it? Yes, it was a what's his face who just died, right? Oh, oh, oh, oh, Rich Riffiana. Yeah, it was the big, I don't know if you know who that is, but he big tattooed, dude, he just died recently, but just the last big LA convention of his, they got into a big old brawl and it's like these camps, you know,

Starting point is 00:52:44 and they sell their clothes and their supplements. I think it's an image. Any type of industry that's super based on image and how you look. A lot of that's driven by insecurity, fitness. I was the skinny kids, I want to build a small muscle. I was really fat. I need to look at particular. These big egos, fragile egos. In podcasting, it's really just, it's about your content. It's about your value. Most of the listens are growth-minded people, right?

Starting point is 00:53:09 It's your keeper. Most people that turned on a podcast, you turned on the first time to probably listen and learn something, right? Were you a big podcast listener before you started? You know, not like crazy. Like I was, but like Joe Rogan, the occasional Tim Ferriss,

Starting point is 00:53:25 kind of the obvious go-to's. I more just loved the platform. Like I just thought it was so cool. I believe that I gravitate a little bit more to talking than to like on camera stuff, if I could have it my way, right? And just the fact that you could do whatever you want, I could launch it tomorrow, you know, it just was.

Starting point is 00:53:44 Super free. Yeah, I really like that. I could do it tomorrow. You know, it just was. Super free. Yeah, I really like that. I could do it in the office. And the way I always looked at it, and still look at it, is like, I think that it's the foundation, or it's the thing that will start to kick start all of my new things.

Starting point is 00:53:56 It's not the thing. Like I don't look at like, I'm gonna have the world's biggest podcast. I just, it's part of it. Part of it. It's just, that's starting. I can't believe the conversations that I've had and you know like I wouldn't be talking to you guys if I didn't start a podcast right because it went through Tom to then to wherever. So imagine talking to Tom. Now

Starting point is 00:54:14 I'll call Tom with like weird brain questions right because he's just like brain genius. And I have 10 to 15 people that I now talk to on the regular, because of sitting down and having these conversations with them, it's just taking me in this whole kind of different direction that I didn't expect, which is really cool. And I think that'll be the start of kind of where my life goes.

Starting point is 00:54:38 Have you always been this self-aware growth minded? Because you're very, I know you mostly from the show, from Robin Bigg and hearing you talk and whatever you're very, I know you mostly from the show from you know Robin big and Hearing you talk and whatever you're extremely intelligent very self-aware and very growth-minded Have you always been that way or is this something that you started to develop? Do you have a pivotal moment in your life? No, first of all, thank you because it was a insanely nice compliment I think that if I could really I think I was younger it came off More as like anxiety and like worry.

Starting point is 00:55:07 And you know what I mean? I think that was like the young. Same here. Yeah. And I still something. I know what I mean, yeah. It's still my biggest. If I could say like what's your biggest flaw, it's that.

Starting point is 00:55:17 Like it's just anxiety and sort of social. Like that's why the podcast has been great for me too, because it forces me to sit down and talk to someone for at least There's been days when I especially in the beginning when I would come in and be like oh, man I don't know what to talk about. I don't know the story really well Like where are we gonna go and then I will leave and be like yes, yes Like it's really is like putting yourself through like this thing, but um no, I think that

Starting point is 00:55:44 Yeah, I think that I was an overthinker and still am, but I think that, um, yeah, there was no big turning point or anything like that. I've always been pretty like analytical and just really tried to look at everything as thorough as possible. And like I said, it's not always. Studies, studies show like what you're saying is actually, the studies will show that anxiety and those types of things are definitely closely connected to growth-minded individuals. It's almost like it forces people to try to grow,

Starting point is 00:56:13 you know, change and whatever, because you're in this uncomfortable state, you know, most of the time. Yeah, and I think like the good thing is, you're really self-aware. Like being self-aware is really good when you're doing a podcast, but when you're in an uncomfortable situation, it's really bad. Because you're like, I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I'm over there. I what do you think angles. Yeah, so it's canals when I'm in usually crowded situations.

Starting point is 00:56:47 I'm used to it on real tight. I think that in the last like two years I have been on kind of this mission to like, you know, just be a little bit better, more well-rounded person, figure out where my issues are, my flaws are, and just really work on them. You know, even if it's socially, even if it's not spending enough time with my friends, or like I added it on my notes every single day to call or text my mom.

Starting point is 00:57:13 And I just notice now it's a habit, and every morning I say, hey, mom, love you, hope you have a great day. And there would be like two week times when I didn't talk to my mom at all, not for any reason, not because we have an issue because I don't love her. I just wouldn't think about it.

Starting point is 00:57:24 And she wouldn't say anything. So it's little stuff like that that I'm really trying to slowly get better. I think that when it comes to the anxiety and stuff, the main thing, like meditation has really helped a lot. How often do you do it? Every day, I'm doing it right. Do you use any like tools for it or just sit on your own quiet? I use a calm on the app calm. Yeah, so it's for 10 minutes So I do that I even recently started doing affirmations and goals Because one of the guys I had on my podcast who became a really good friend is really big on that So I was like fuck it. I'll try it. So I

Starting point is 00:57:57 Recorded it on my of me saying it on my mics into put it on my iPhone So every morning I sit for 10 minutes and I do meditation and then I listen to my little affirmations and I listen to my goals for the end of 2018, where I'll be December 2018. And it's amazing how some of those little things really just snowball into making yourself, you just feel a little bit more in control and grounded

Starting point is 00:58:23 and there are times when I'll be in situations and start to get a little bit more in control and grounded. And there are times when I'll be in situations and start to get a little jammed up, and I'll focus on my breathing or stuff like that. But I haven't found a cure all. I think that it's like, as you get better, everything gets better. And that'll forever be a challenge to try to figure it out. How do you deal?

Starting point is 00:58:40 I just another good book for you. Irresistible talks about the addiction to phones and social media. And this is a big part of all of our lives in world now and for sure a tool for us to be successful, but it also can consume you. Do you notice that yourself? And are there, do you do anything to make sure you have a day off or you get away from that?

Starting point is 00:59:02 What's that like for you? Yeah, 100% I think it's terrible. And what I did for a long time, and I think I'm gonna go back to it, is I had two phones, and one phone was only phone in text, and the other one was everything else. So YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat, email, everything was on another phone.

Starting point is 00:59:18 So you are very, very aware. Like right now it would be in my bag, and I would have a moment where I, like we were done, and I have a break I have nothing I get to check my stuff right but then you put it back and you're just very aware of when you're messing around and wasting time and when you're not it's so easy to check a real email that's that means something and then go over to Instagram for a second and you go blah blah and before you know it it was 20 minutes and you checked an email. You know, and I think that it's, I think it's really bad.

Starting point is 00:59:49 And I think it's a problem that I have 100%. I need to check it, like I need to whatever. I have an app on my phone called Moment, which you set like a goal of, like I try to stay under four hours or something, saying on my phone every day and it alerts you when your book talks about that app. That it?

Starting point is 01:00:04 Yeah, okay, so I got that from, I think a podcast book talks about that app. Does it? Yeah. Okay. So I got that from, I think a podcast or a book or something. So it's great. It will send you a little alert, hey, you're a loser when you go for four hours. Hey, junkie. Yeah. Stop. Hey, crack it.

Starting point is 01:00:16 How's Instagram? And then, and it tells you what apps you spend time on, which is mind blowing. If you even go, I didn't know this for a long time. If you go to your, I believe settings go go to battery and then go to click usage, it'll show you what percentage of your battery was spent on what apps. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes, so it'll stay like 75% Instagram for a day.

Starting point is 01:00:33 Oh shit. Shit. I'm a loser. I did not know that. That's a little hack right there. I had no idea. Yeah, yeah. So, it tells you that and whatever,

Starting point is 01:00:42 but yeah, it's another thing that you just have to try. It's just like anything, man. I'm learning that it may sound like, yeah, no shit, but all of these things, you know what the issue is, you know how to do it better. You know how to eat better. You know how to exercise a little bit more. You know how to stay off your phone a little bit more. You know how to, it's just doing it.

Starting point is 01:01:01 I'm doing it little by little and trying to set up systems to track if you did it or not really helps. You know? I have, this thing that I do, which is a combination of like from Jerry Seinfeld and a friend of mine and blah, blah, blah, all this different stuff, where every day, that's what I was talking about with my mom, every day I have like eight things. So I have my notes every day that are printed out with what I have to do that day. At the top of that every day is all of the

Starting point is 01:01:29 things that I should do for like a basic successful day, meaning drink two liters of water, color text my mom stretch, meditate like the basics. And I cross them off as I go throughout my day. And then if I get them, if I cross them all, I have a calendar at home on my wall that I put a giant red X on with a Sharpie for that day. Because what happens is, if you get three Xs, and number one, you're tracking it. So you know what you're doing, you know, if you're doing good or bad. That alone makes a huge difference. Then saying, I don't, I feel like you're wearing a figure this week, you know, you're forced to be aware. Yes. And then what happens is, you might have a long day, you might have not done very well, but you get home and you see three X's in the last three days on

Starting point is 01:02:07 those on that calendar and you know that today you're not going to get one. You'll do the extra stuff. Like you'll be like, ah, whatever, I'm just going to chug the water and call my mind. I'll take this street going. Yeah, you keep the street going and you notice too, like, you know, you have a big night of drinking or you have some whatever thing and you have like four blank days and then you kind of get it back together and you get a chain going and then something happens and you start to learn what gets you off and what keeps you on and what you know and just being able to track that on the most basic form with a sharpie and some paper Really really helps. Yeah, which one of those basics is the most challenging for you to get consistently? It

Starting point is 01:02:44 It's for some reason I'm for some reason it's the water drinking two liters of water. I don't know why. I just every like literally every day it's almost it's almost always the thing on there because it's I think maybe because it's throughout the whole day like you you'll get home and be like I have to drink a liter and a half a water and I really don't feel like you know like you have to because the other ones like read and water, and I really don't feel like, you know, like you have to, because the other one's like, read, and it's kind of these things that you can do. At least you're knocking out

Starting point is 01:03:08 the real important ones I feel like. Yeah, but still, that's such a stupid thing to not be doing. You know what I mean? I find myself now, like the last week, I've been like, okay, drink the water, drink like you're in the uber, drink the water, and like, you know what I mean? And just, it's stupid, but.

Starting point is 01:03:22 Other than that, what are your biggest challenges with business right now? Biggest challenges, I think is just a mount of content needed. Oh, God, it's a truth. You know, as a whole, and a content war right now, I feel like. Yeah, is that why you started the vlog? Yeah, and I'm doing a terrible job at it. You know, like I should be, I should be,

Starting point is 01:03:43 there's no reason why I am not posting a vlog every day and a podcast and a blah blah. I mean, there's just no reason. It's what you should be doing, but it's so hard and once again walking around pointing a camera at your face all day is so stupid and when you're trying to just, I don't know, I just the way my brain works It just feels so show offy to me. Yeah, so vain. I feel you. And it's just like, oh, I can't do this.

Starting point is 01:04:08 It was so hard to get on Instagram. It was so, this guy was like hammering on me, get on Instagram and I'm looking through and I'm like, let's go grandpa, I'm gonna tell her where the building's in business. I'm like, this is narcissism. Now the kids are gonna listen to it. Just don't make me Instagram.

Starting point is 01:04:22 I mean, fitness on Instagram is just a pile of shit. It's fucking narcissism, how it was so difficult to get on, but it's a tool, it's a business tool, you gotta use it and get over that, you know? Even these guys would be like, you have to post more photos of yourself. Stop posting, like, doing a podcast today. You know, like, God, don't look at me.

Starting point is 01:04:40 And I'm like, it's so stupid. Like, what's my, then you have to worry about your caption. What's your caption? Yeah, get up there. Kill it today. Just kill it. Look at me in this chair with the headset on. Like, you can do it too.

Starting point is 01:04:53 So I don't know, I just naturally shy away from it. But yes, it's just across the board. Like, you have to be communicating every day of with something of good quality and something of good value. And it's like, how the hell? So I got to do that from my thing. Young and reckless has to be doing that.

Starting point is 01:05:13 And it's hard. That's definitely the biggest challenge. Yeah, more than ever, the brand means the person behind it, more than ever. It wasn't like that before. It was not. But now it's all you. It's like, if you're, if they know you and they like you, your brand will do well. It's so true.

Starting point is 01:05:27 And I always said it like, when I first started Young and Reckless, me being on a reality show, I thought was a detriment. It was not good because these brands at the time were like, they were mysterious and they had this cool factor and it was like, oh, I think this guy owns it.

Starting point is 01:05:41 And I heard he has seven Ferrari. You know what I'm saying? This guy over here. What's good? So are you mysterious? Yes, you are. So I have to tell you the story. So Taylor, the only reason I'm the most

Starting point is 01:05:52 he is sitting in on this podcast, there it's so. Truth be told. So Taylor doesn't even podcast with us. He's actually runs our whole social media side. Nice. But I said, did you got to be on this podcast with Chris? Because I know that this guy, how we met, he was only

Starting point is 01:06:05 23 years old. So this is fucking 10 years ago. And we're playing basketball together. I'm so fascinated by this kid that he has the ability to come in the gym at 11 and three. And I'm like, what the fuck is this kid doing? Nice shoes on dress nice dress. And what are you doing? So you don't have a Facebook business. And this time, this is 10 years ago. It was Twitter. It was Twitter. Oh, it was Twitter. Okay, so he's got a social media business. And at this time, I've heard of people that have made money that way,

Starting point is 01:06:32 but I never met anybody yet. And here's this 20-something-year-old kid, and I'm super fascinated by him. Like, dude, we gotta have lunch. Like, you've created like a six-figure business off of a fucking Twitter? Yeah, yeah. Come on, I gotta have lunch. I'm still fast. Yeah, right?

Starting point is 01:06:46 So we have lunch and we talk all about it. And he basically kind of shows me the ropes. And that's actually when I turn my Instagram on. But he created an apparel company. And I'm teasing him because he doesn't, he has no images of him all the time. He's Mr. Undercover. So you see?

Starting point is 01:07:03 Do people think you're like really cool? I don't do it anymore. I've not read it. Not real bad. I'm sure you're thinking that. I don't know, but you build up this image and in streetwares, particularly, it's all about how cool do you look or how cool do you appear to be. And it's all about perception.

Starting point is 01:07:21 Perception is everything. And when I started meeting more and more people in the street wear world When I started hanging on fair facts more and going to the Nike air mag events and you start meeting on these people You're like oh, this is all fake. Yeah, like they're they're they're running these cars They're living with their parents. I'm over here like I have my own spot And I'm like I'm like really trying to do it. Yeah, I'm really trying to live it And and then you you get you get exposed to it and you're like, everything you thought it was supposed to be,

Starting point is 01:07:49 is not. It was 100%. And I just think like, I guess what I was getting at is I thought, so it was kind of in the day where those were the guys that were killing it, right? Were the mysterious, sometimes fake life, just baller. And so me being like, hey, it's me drama from Nancy Mankery.

Starting point is 01:08:09 Like, it wasn't good. So I tried as much as I could to actually sort of be in the background. I mean, obviously people are gonna know I own it. I have to post about it and stuff because I have all these followers. But like, I did marketing campaigns with Meek Mill and Machine Gun Kelly in the early days

Starting point is 01:08:28 and all my stuff was like, how can I do stuff with other people? Because it can't be like my thing. The point is now eight years later, it has to be my thing. I have to be out front showing you how I run the business. It's like just the opposite. And so I was like, all right, well shit, here we go.

Starting point is 01:08:44 You know, like, let's get it and try to do this right But it just has changed. I just think street wear still people like mystery and they like the you know It's like rappers, but um, but A lot of the people that are winning are just out front and the fans feel connected to them. I mean real is low in pole It's like selling 30 million dollars a year in merch. Like, dude, that's a huge clothing line. Those kids got watched both those two, man, they're unbelievable what they're doing. I was just telling these guys how we're we are part of this changing and it's funny. We're here in LA and Hollywood and stuff and I'm like, dude,

Starting point is 01:09:19 I, I, I, is Hollywood gonna die in the next 10 years, bro, is Netflix gonna take over movies and famous people are gonna be YouTubers and shit like that. It is all you got to do is look at little kids I have two kids and they don't know shit about who's on TV or movies Yeah, but they know who their favorite YouTube stars are. Yeah, we go to the store We buy stuff based on what the YouTube stars say if that's the future man so crazy. It's so true But it's not crazy like like you saw Brad Pitt walking down the street and then like some unknown YouTube like Okay, Paul walk you and like kids would be like Like to the youtuber and Brad would just do his thing. They do events. These youtubers do events my kids wanted me to go to one

Starting point is 01:09:56 I'm like, who is this guy? I don't know. I'm gonna like always my favorite youtuber They open presents and play with toys or some bullshit. I don't know. Yeah, it's crazy I'm trying so hard not to sound like old and like that stupid, you know, but like, get off my lawn. If that's what it is, that's what it is. It's going that way. I mean, when you look at Netflix and stuff, I mean, you're seeing these guys, I just saw, like, just the other day, I saw the first trailer for like a real movie, man.

Starting point is 01:10:19 Netflix made. Yeah, and then the next thing, and you thing you see when you talk about Logan Paul those guys They're in movies now. Yeah, yeah, you see them in movies. I mean it's it's good Well think about it if you're if you're a movie studio or yours production studio you want to make a movie You got this kid over here with you know 20 million subscribers to the YouTube channel You only got to pay him a half a million dollars to be in your show movie and you know you're gonna have a guaranteed audience You're gonna pay $50 million to Tom Cruise. Cross the earth though, are we gonna lose good shit?

Starting point is 01:10:50 I don't know. That's the big clip. That's where I think we sound old. Cause I think they sound old. I think there are parents when, or let's say our grandparents, right, when like TV first started, they were probably like, you kids,

Starting point is 01:11:02 like you don't know what we, you know what I'm saying? I think it was probably the same, or like when rap music, imagine M&M, like it was like, you guys do not know music. You're telling me all music is going to be this garbage, this talentless hack, you know what I mean? Now he's like the legend. I just, I don't know. I think it's, I think it's just how things like evolve and where it goes. I think it's our perspective, but it's scary. I can't see the difference. It looks like garbage.

Starting point is 01:11:28 Damn it. Like to me, I watch it and I'm like, what the world's over? I give up everyone's in the house making vlogs and those are our celebrities now. Excellent. Well, thanks for letting us talk to you, man. That was great, man. We could do this for hours. Oh, absolutely. Broke you would have brought a blunt, we would have you man. Yeah, we could do this for hours. Oh, obviously.

Starting point is 01:11:45 Broke you would have brought a blunt. We would have, man. Yeah, don't. If you would have brought a blunt, we would have just got, we would have went two hours plus easily next time. Next time. You got to, you got to come visit us up in the area. San Jose, we have a whole studio and everything.

Starting point is 01:11:57 We could do all kinds of media. We got video equipment, green screen. We have a whole recording. That's awesome, man. I would love to. And anytime. It's like the fantasy factory podcast. Yeah, it's like, it's the one. It's the one. It's the one. It would love to. And anytime. It's like the fantasy factory podcast. Yeah. It's a little wild.

Starting point is 01:12:08 Yeah. Yeah. We're the cool. It's really awesome. Yeah. We're the cool snirts. No, that's cool, man. I love it. Anything I can do ever for you guys or if you'll have me back on or whatever. Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure, brother. It's great. Great, great time talking to you. Appreciate it. Go over to YouTube, check out Mind Pump TV. We post a new video every single day. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. 9 months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically

Starting point is 01:12:55 transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos. The RGB Superbundle is like having South Animus Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 649: Chris "Drama" Pfaff

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