Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 661: Matt Vincent- Two Time Highland Games World Champion

Starting point is 00:00:00 Open it up, Justin. Open it up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to. Can we keep that in there, Doug, please? If you want to pump your body and expand your mind,

Starting point is 00:00:13 there's only one place to go. Mind, up, mind, up with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. I had a really good time because after Matt dropped off, or you got dropped off here, we hung out afterwards and ended up chopping up forever. And I love when we meet people, because I've met, we've met a ton of people

Starting point is 00:00:37 interviewing us with that. And I like pretty much all of them, like all of them I like. And then there's like levels of how much I really like somebody of the best ones. Like somebody you could hang out with. Right. Beyond this. I never said that.

Starting point is 00:00:48 I feel with somebody who was up the road from us, you know what I'm saying, if he didn't really get on a plane to go see him all the time, we would, we would hang out. He's a cool guy, really smart guy. He's like a bigger, stronger version of Justin. Yeah. I know. I felt the same thing.

Starting point is 00:01:01 I was a little bit like, man, I wish I could do a cool shit. You can do it because, uh, yeah, we're like the same guy. No, he's hilarious. He's very sharp-witted. He's a competitor. He was an ex-competitor, right? He's the compete in the two-time world champion Highland Games, which is a, it's a strength sport.

Starting point is 00:01:18 I love to even hear him talk about that because the way he makes fun of himself with it. Oh, yeah, he's like, ah, it's not even a real sport. Yeah, no, he's, come on, dude. He's fucking really very humble, very humble guy, very humble guy, very cool guy, very down to earth guy. For sure, we'll be a friend of ours for quite some time. And it's clothing line, right?

Starting point is 00:01:35 What's this clothing line called? It's a big, but with the Roman numerals, the H and then V, I, I, I, and it's very successful. I mean, he started himself. I love hearing stories like this, right? He was obviously in a strength sport, wanted to turn that into a business somehow, came up with his clothing line, which is doing very well. I mean, it's legit stuff.

Starting point is 00:01:53 Like me and Adam both, we were like, Oh, when's the Black Friday sale? We're like going for it, man, cause it, like it's stuff I'd actually, No, I dropped over 300 bucks on his gear. Did you really? Oh, yeah. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:02:04 I think, well, you'll see, yeah, I should get it this week. He. Did you really? Oh yeah. I don't know. I think. Wait, you'll see. That's weird. I should get it this week. He sent me a bunch of free stuff. You can find his apparel at that kind of friend. The HATE.com, but it's HATE Roman numeral. That was weird.

Starting point is 00:02:17 It's the HVII.com, he's the three I, sorry, HVII. It's the equal A. It's the equal A. You can find him on Instagram at I HVII equal a calm. You can find them on Instagram at I HVII Matt Vincent and he has a podcast. He's actually got a new podcast. He's a good podcast. We were on his too.

Starting point is 00:02:36 Yeah, we were on his podcast. His podcast is called um so so you M and then S.O. You get how you get how that works, right? Well, I hate Matt Vincent. I got it. Okay, I just wonder if you can tell it the audience. Oh, I just how that works, right? I hate Matt Vincent. I got it. I just wonder if you can tell it to the audience. Oh, I just had to spell it out because I was so excited.

Starting point is 00:02:49 I was like, you get that's Roman numerals. I literally got it right the second. I didn't get it before. Oh, you did, as you read it, you got it. No, Justin's like, hate Roman N.O. Roman numerals. Yeah. Excellent.

Starting point is 00:03:01 So here we are talking to Matt Vincent. So last night I recorded with Jen Weiderstrom and Jeff Nichols, my Navy SEAL buddy, and we recorded at Jen's house and like, what do we want to talk about? Blub, blah, blah, blah. So we ended up setting it up on the table in front of us and we watched Commando and critiqued it. Oh, that's classic. That's what I'm talking about. You know, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. That's one of those movies when you're a kid, it's awesome. When saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:03:25 That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:03:33 That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:03:41 That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That all that I'm yelling about you look at that stunt double. Don't look anything remember remember the ending We throw it throws it's got the eye hanging over the cliff. No, he throws that line. Oh, yeah, that was a great No, you're a funny guy. I like you. That's why I'm going to kill you last Remember when he throws the guy that the guy through the pipe or whatever. Hey throws it through straight through and let off some steam lyrics wearing that like

Starting point is 00:04:01 I'm better. Lyrics wearing that like macromay vest the entire time. I don't know if it's if I'm supposed to believe that's like some weird chain mail but that guy is in terrible shape. That's right. Like just be honest with Arnold, you're not going to fight Arnold. That's right. You know what movie he did? He did like a knife.

Starting point is 00:04:18 I actually had this conversation with my friend the other day because we were a huge when I was a kid me, my cousin and our, were huge Arnold fans, like all action heroes. But the one movie that has stood the test of time is Predator. The original Predator is still a badass movie when you watch it. No, original Predator. The other side, Commando, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:04:36 Red Heat, not stuff, like, oh my god. Yeah, that was a stretch. Well, how many years later, though? Predator came quite a way, it was quite a bit later than those. No, well, Predator's not that much later than those. Well, not that much later. Really? No, not that much. It was after commando?

Starting point is 00:04:49 Yes. Oh yeah, yeah, it was after commando, but it wasn't that much after commando. Because it was Conan, Commando. We should find out. I know, now you get it. Was that the order? I know Conan's first.

Starting point is 00:04:58 Conan's first. Yeah, Conan's first. He's break through, right? No, Hercules in New York, where's her first? Hercules in New York, he's actually like, I bet you guys know what you know. His title is Arnold is like Arnold Strong. Arnold Strong.

Starting point is 00:05:07 They couldn't fucking bother spelling his name at that point. You know, you used to have to argue with people because they wouldn't, they didn't want to put his last name. Cause like, that's not gonna work. Your last name is too crazy. Yeah. He stuck to his name.

Starting point is 00:05:17 Well, he's one of, he's one of probably a hundred people who tried to make that play and we'd never know any of the others. Yeah, we're like, just do it like Arnold outside the bill curve those rules will play you Predator was in 1987 1987 was predator. Yeah, so what 85 is commando commando is 85. Yeah, I was sweet to car withers. Yeah, yep. Yep. Yeah

Starting point is 00:05:40 So many great lines and say the way they split his name up there. That's oh Yep, God so many great lines. I'm gonna say the way they split his name up there. That's, oh, because it didn't open. That's the, the, the, the line though. Yeah, that's, yeah. Remember he kicks the door, doesn't work. Throws the knife through the guy and he's like, stick around.

Starting point is 00:05:55 It's so good. But no, it's after Terminator. Yes, Terminator, because he says, I'll be back in the NIV 4. Yeah, yeah, Terminator 19-4. Which is amazing. All right, yeah, terminator 19 or four, which is amazing. All right, yeah, kicks the door down, knock, knock, when he blasts everybody.

Starting point is 00:06:08 What a weird existence, like Arnold Schwarzenegger has to have had, right? Like, I mean, you're essentially the most famous person in any room you've walked in since like what? 80? Yeah. He is the, I'll argue this all day long and I will win this argument with anybody. He represents, he's he is the if I'll argue this all day down and I will win this argument with anybody

Starting point is 00:06:26 He represents he's very confident Arnold represents the American dream better than anybody I can think of better than anybody and he's not even American. He's in that's why that's why he Absolutely immigrant who comes to this country doesn't speak English doesn't speaking this at all He says I'm gonna become the best bodybuild in the world what she does and he says I'm gonna become Rich which he does before he becomes an actor. People realize this, he made a lot of money in construction, in business, and as a bodybuilder and selling, you know, protein powders and a lot of stuff. Then he says, I'm gonna become the highest paid, here, a movie star.

Starting point is 00:06:58 Action hero. No, just movie star. Oh yeah. And everybody laughed, like, you can't speak English. You're a bodybuilder. Terrible actor. Everybody made fun of bodybuilders back then. Terrible actor, no way, does it, becomes the highest paid, one of the highest paid actors of all time.

Starting point is 00:07:11 Then he marries a Kennedy. Yeah. Okay. And then he's like, I'm going to become the governor of the most populous state in the country as a Republican. He's essentially running the third largest economy on the planet. Yeah. And he became a Republican. He became the governor of California, like Democrat lamb. This was the story to us.

Starting point is 00:07:30 Just voting is a popularity contest. I put someone in all the way. So I believe that within 12 years, the rock will be the best. Dwayne's on the way. Right, don't you agree? The only problem I have with that, right, is I feel like Dwayne's pretty smart. And he's gonna see that it's a horrible job. Good you want that job.

Starting point is 00:07:47 You know what I think it is? So like, yeah, it's too good to say that. I mean, it's just right, you've been to billion dollars to earn a job that pays 400 grand. Right. Oh, ego. It's the power. It's the power, right?

Starting point is 00:07:57 Because at that point, you've accomplished almost everything else. It's a terrible job, man. You just admit that that guy doesn't do much, like as far as the president, it's an actual person. Can we all just, this is like a mascot? Yeah, totally. Actually, what it is.

Starting point is 00:08:09 If you're a target, this is what you are. But we are, I mean, how can you stop that if we allow, I mean, if you can go in and vote, right? And now everybody is on Facebook now, almost everybody is on these social media platforms and that you can be, and Donald Trump was an example of somebody who utilized that. Yep. Hate him or love him. He did that fucking very well and he's paving the way for probably who's going to do it the next way. And it's just going to,

Starting point is 00:08:33 I think there's going to keep one up in each other until you know, it's going to be a popularity contest and you're right. It's it's it's there are mascot anyways. They're not making the decisions right. It's everybody. it's American idol that's true Yeah, like I hope that that guy's not make a decision We'll see we'll see what happens. So I I want you to share a story because I know I know I know Yeah, no before we go to that. Oh, I don't know look at me. You go there first. All right. I don't know if these guys know um, I remember The first time that I uh came across you was actually I found you, I

Starting point is 00:09:06 think Joe Rogan reposted your coffee mug. Yeah, I had a coffee mug. We got a reposted. Joe Rogan day. Show that story. Taylor was briefly telling me a little bit too about it that you weren't even ready for that. No, not even close, right?

Starting point is 00:09:19 So we've been in business at that point with hate brand a year. It's damn near a full year. So we put the coffee mug out and we're still doing stuff like limited release, things like that. So we think we make this mug, we ordered our standard quantity, we got I think 300 of them. I'm like, well, this is a whole deal Christmas. You know, this is like early, right in the end of October.

Starting point is 00:09:40 And sure enough, like November 2nd, it's Joe Rogan Day. And I get a text from a friend, it's like, holy shit, do Joe Rogan just reposted your mug? And I'm like, why, so I look it up and I'd taken a photo that morning with two bags of caveman coffee in my mug and sent it over to the guy, a caveman that I know, and he reposted it and then Joe reposted.

Starting point is 00:10:02 Man, tagged us in it. And so we've got at this point, like probably, I don't know, 150 mugs in stock. Now what does the mugs say on it? Just says kick today in the day. It's one that we, I saw it. Yeah, I totally posted it. And so that's the end of it.

Starting point is 00:10:15 Great. Kind of being our thing, right? And so he posts this thing and like sales just, do do do do do do do. And so it's like my partner calls me. He's like, well, we've only got like 140 of these left do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do and say we did not expect it to start happening. Yeah, I'm sorry, but we have to reorder them and I know that it's gonna take like six weeks. Give them IOUs. So we end up selling over the course of the next four days, like 1100 mugs.

Starting point is 00:10:53 Wow. Wow. And we've never stopped carrying that mug. We still sell about 1,000 of them a quarter. It's been. That's so good. How crazy is that the power of one of the... And that's a deep, that's a podcast. That for a podcast post like not an organic post by Rogan. Yeah, that was just a repost that he didn't

Starting point is 00:11:10 On his Instagram. Yeah, and he didn't even talk about it on his podcast. No, not even close Wow, just to show you the power of one person. That's like Oprah was like that like if you Oprah could make her break your life Yeah, if you got on her show and she talked about your book, your best seller, guaranteed. Yeah. That's crazy, that's insane. Yeah. Wow.

Starting point is 00:11:30 So tell us about what you compete in, what that's all about, and you do Highland Games competition. Yeah, so a lot of our listeners have no idea. It's a strength sport, but they have no idea what it is like. I think it's, I consider it one of the most, I mean, you know, manly fun sports.

Starting point is 00:11:46 Yeah, it is good fun, right? So, you know, my background was a thrower in college, shop at Discus and Hammer at LSU, and then it's spent some years doing some powerlifting, did some strong man was really average at both of them, and made my way and found a Highland game to do, and really, really enjoyed it, took well to it. If you threw for 10 years prior to getting into the

Starting point is 00:12:05 howling games, it's essentially cheating. It all makes sense. Okay. But instead of doing three events, we now have nine. So we do two stone throws that are really similar to the shot put. We do two hammer throws.

Starting point is 00:12:18 We do two weights for distance. And we do a weight over a bar, a cable, and a sheaf, which is like a 20 pound hay-bale thing you throw at the pitch fork. So got into that, really, really enjoyed it. That was 2008, did my first game or 2009. Did my first game in November, 2010, did a full season, essentially traveling around, and then went professional at the end of 2011.

Starting point is 00:12:44 How do you become professional at that? It's a little bit of just throw your hands in the air and say, I'm now professional. All right, but the path that it worked out for me, which isn't, I don't even think it's in existence anymore to do it. There was something of a federation at the time. And they hosted an amateur world championship. I went and did that and won.

Starting point is 00:13:05 That was right at the end of 2011. And so what I'd understood was if I win that, I get an automatic invite to the 2012 professional world championship, something sweet. I'll stay amateur another year, do this game, get the automatic invite. So do that and like talking to him, like, where are you guys gonna host worlds next year,

Starting point is 00:13:26 you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, oh, it's gonna be Loon Mountain and New Hampshire. I'm like, well, that's where you guys are doing it this year. And he's like, yeah, it's in a couple weeks. And I'm like, which worlds am I invited to? And they're like, yeah, they're wanting a couple weeks. I'm like, oh, all right.

Starting point is 00:13:42 It's on. So went and, you know, meant perfect spot to be in. I'm as good as shape to throw at that time as I could be. I'm complete rookie. First professional competition is at the World Championships. Oh, wow. So just went out, hair on fire, and let him fucking have it. Took second.

Starting point is 00:13:59 Wow. And won the following year. Oh, that ass. How's the vibe towards Americans? It's fun, dude. the following year. Oh, that ass. How's the vibe towards Americans? It's fun, dude. Yeah, it's fun. I mean, I've heard that the culture is around the Highland games is similar to Strongman and that everybody's

Starting point is 00:14:14 a super fucking, having a great time. Everybody's cool. And the professional ranks 100%. 100%. We're, for me, I always thought that the professional side of things, everybody was in on the joke a little bit of like this is fucking kind of silly Let's be honest about this. There's people paying us and flying us out and putting us up in hotels and we have prize money for Fucking throwing rocks in a field today that we're gonna measure

Starting point is 00:14:36 This is awesome. You know, you know all the professionals were also did other sports my brother does it He was an NFL guy and most of the other guys threw in college. So we're all used to doing other things. The amateurs get, they get a little bit to the point where it's like they're looking for something to define them. And that's where I ran into it was strong until I'm like, come on man, fucking take it easy bud. We're in a fucking GNC Park and lot lot You know what I mean? Like we're forced here to listen to disturbed and carry stuff around at GNC parking lot Let's pump the brakes on how down with the sickness we are Now you've been around it for a long time. So have you seen the sport evolve for potentially the good and the bad?

Starting point is 00:15:22 Yeah, of course and the coolest thing is, I think now more athletes are finding it as like another opportunity to stay in competition and stay doing things. And so now there's more information to about like, where do you find games and how do you get into the sport and what are the events and, well shit, how would I actually train for that? And so that's been cool to share all that type of stuff. Right. Yeah, it's actually train for that? And so that's been cool to share all that type of stuff. Right. Yeah, it's actually looked into that.

Starting point is 00:15:47 And there was like, it was like clubs in the local area that would have it and they would host it and all that. And I was curious, like how do you even like get in? You have to get into the club kind of circuit or? Yeah, and like there's not really, it's not like a club or anything like that. And there's no federations, there's no, any of that with Island games.

Starting point is 00:16:02 We're essentially paid entertainment at some festival. Got it. And so which is why see, okay? Because so some Renaissance festival or some They're way off the street drinking and doing shit. All else. Yeah. So we have crowds. Yeah. Which is also the same reason they can pay us to compete. And so my recommendation to anyone is like, look up.

Starting point is 00:16:22 Renaissance festival, Highland Games in your area. Find one and just go do it. And go have do it. Just go be fucking terrible at it. Yeah, like you're only allowed to be a cook for so long in your sport. And like you're gonna be the first time you do it, whether or not you spent the last six months really giving a shit. So just go be a cook. Right. Have a good time and then figure out is this something I'd like to invest the rest of my time in

Starting point is 00:16:44 before you buy all the stuff. Now there's a long history behind Highling Games. Yeah, you know, you can use the course. So it's been around in Scotland forever. And so essentially when the English had started taking over Scotland and doing stuff like that, they took all their weapons. And so these were ways that the clans could meet together and have some type of a physical challenge

Starting point is 00:17:09 or a way to train for battle with it, not seeming like smash and swords. So you throw rocks, they had counter weights from the scale. So we threw a, we threw a 28 pound weight for distance, we threw a 56 pound for distance. And so we threw a 56 pound over a bar, which is four stone or something like that, whatever the translation is. And these were, you know, weights that they used to measure grain and stuff like that. And you know, the weights have become more of a throwing implement now than what they started as. And so a lot of the games,

Starting point is 00:17:38 you know, that I've done in Scotland have been around a really long time. Like, oh, this is a 700th running of this game. And it's really cool because it's also- Like 700 years? Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah, and so- And then you have some of those that have done a really good job

Starting point is 00:17:55 of like maintaining things. And so you've got like field records and stuff like that. We're set with that stone. Well, so it's the same stone. Yeah. Holy cow. Some of the other implements wear out and stuff like that were set with that stone. So it's the same stone. Yeah. Holy cow. Some of the other implements wear out and stuff like that, but occasionally you get a good one.

Starting point is 00:18:10 Now, are there, have you encountered some of these, because there's nothing like competing in something that's got such a long lineage and comparing yourself to how people were hundreds of years ago in terms of performance. I think a lot of times we incorrectly assume that because today we're modern that, oh, we're just better at everything than people were a few hundred years ago. And in some cases, that's not the case. I mean, I remember really learning about the democratization of sports and learning how much equipment played a role in breaking new records, like cycle, you know, cyclist or the track or the shoe

Starting point is 00:18:49 or the, you know, a new technique of jumping or whatever. And how much that plays a role versus just the physical performance and just how people back then were fucking bad asses too. Have you seen records of some of these competitions where you're like, this record has been up here for 130 years or this one? There's nothing that long. There's some records like older records, a tied, a tied one of the stone records for the world record is like 63,

Starting point is 00:19:14 three or something like that. And the owner of that record is Brian Olfield. It was like a four time Olympian world record holder in the shop. But oh wow. So you've got a couple records like that and Jeff Kass with another Olympian and these are all guys from kind of the 80s that post track and field had got into something else. So they're like peak. Yeah, yeah, these are legit athletes. And so the records have been around long enough that most of the owners now are pretty much somebody. But yeah, but I mean, there's such a difference now. I mean, most

Starting point is 00:19:43 so the average thrower in the professional ranks with the Highland Games now is Think someone did the top 20 of us and there was you know the average is 6 3 3 10 Big boys, you know, I mean those people didn't exist 600 years ago. Yeah, we just didn't have enough food or if they did They might not have come competed. Yeah, or they were worried about things like say, their village being set on fire. Yeah, so they were not, they were riding on horse myself with every day. Pillaging, pillaging. What is,

Starting point is 00:20:12 That's a pillaging. How much of your training is devoted to skill versus just? Most, especially early on. Kind of the rule of thumb, I always told people is like, don't fucking waste all your time, like trying to build the 600 pound squat.

Starting point is 00:20:26 If your technique in the sport that you give a shit is so bad that you can only transfer 30% of the energy into the implement, right? You'd be better off having a 300 pound squat and transferring 100% of your energy. That's less wear and tear, and it's a hell of a lot easier to improve technique in your first two years at like a specialty sport than it is to add 200 pounds to your squat.

Starting point is 00:20:48 Now that's a very intelligent theory right there. How do you apply that in your training like give an example of like how you would do that? So when in doubt go throw more, you know, so it's reps, it's always going to take reps. And I mean what did I do to get better at the sport? I mean, as having a throwing background, I managed to, you know, I didn't have a coach or anything, but I could video and I could critique myself and see where I'm screwing stuff up.

Starting point is 00:21:10 And I'd thrown long enough that I had enough fuel for the sport. So what I did was I would take 60 throws per event a week for the entire year. And so it was throw first, I'm plenty strong. Until I can make this work, why are we focusing on getting stronger? Everyone goes, it's easy to get stronger.

Starting point is 00:21:34 And that's where people default and go there. But. That's a much more general, a lot of people understand that like there's general foundational kind of adaptations, and then they become more and more specific based on whatever company sport you're doing. So you can build, for example, general endurance, but that doesn't mean you're gonna swim longer

Starting point is 00:21:58 than somebody who's got excellent technique in the water and knows how to use that endurance in a swim. And the same thing is true with strength. You can have some incredible, I mean, it's funny because many times, you know, I was a grappler for quite a while. And I was usually stronger than the other person, just because I had a background on lifting weights

Starting point is 00:22:17 and for my body weight I'm pretty strong. For my weight, obviously bigger guys than me are stronger than me. But if I'm going against 190 pound guy in Jiu-Jitsu, typically if we go to the gym, I'm gonna out deadlift squat, bench, whatever. But there's guys I would grab and just pure strength in grappling, I would feel like I'd be manhandled,

Starting point is 00:22:37 then I'd go take into the gym, and I did this many times. I'd take these guys to the gym and we'd lift, and they couldn't squat to 25. They couldn't pull 300 pounds off the floor. They couldn't bench press over 200 pounds. And I remember initially, I'd be shocked that these people weren't that strong.

Starting point is 00:22:52 And then I realized like, it's just different. It's different. It's different. They can apply their strength differently than I can. Whereas I can squat and deadlift more and whatever. But then when we grapple, it was a completely different story. Right, and that applies with the throwing thing.

Starting point is 00:23:06 And the way I try to explain it to people is like, people get overwhelmed and it's like, oh, you know, I get stronger. This thing's heavy. And the truth is, like, none of the shit we throw is heavy. I mean, let's be honest, we all lift. And so like that, 56 pounds, not fucking heavy. There's not a move in the gym that I could be like, hey, could you do this with a 60 pound downpour of like, yeah, Yeah, kid. Not a big deal.

Starting point is 00:23:25 Not a big deal. Right? However, how do I apply a 400 pound clean to something that only weighs 60 pounds? And that's leveraged, that's technique, that's trying to figure out, you know, biomechanically, how do I get my hips in front so that I'm using my legs to throw something

Starting point is 00:23:40 that weighs 60 pounds, not my arm and shoulder. Mm-hmm. And that's technique. And that's gonna come from the repetition. And what I recommend doing to build that repetition is keep working, how, what's the furthest you can throw at the least amount of effort is where you wanna be.

Starting point is 00:23:57 Oh, interesting. And so most of my training practices working on technique were, you know, it started off really slow and throughout the, you know, 20 or 40 throws were, let me throw just further than the last row. Like what's the least amount of effort I have to put in to throw just further than the last one. And so, you know, you pick up six inches, six inches, four inches, you know, foot. And at some point you'll hit one that's relativelyless, and it's a bomb. And then when you take your next one, you're like, shit.

Starting point is 00:24:29 I've got to get my shit together to beat that one. Well, so you can really feel the difference of your technique. Like, can you know, since it comes out of your hand, 100% of the real- Yeah, really? Yeah, if it's a bomb, you know it. Oh, that's great. It slows down a little bit.

Starting point is 00:24:41 You just feel things line up and you finish dead on balance, like both feet planted. You know that all of the energy and momentum that you created spinning went into that. That's cool. It's essentially like slamming a door, right? When you really slam it, you don't move. You transfer it everything into it. Or it's like hitting a baseball or a golfing right.

Starting point is 00:25:02 You know when you hit that sweet spot, it seems effortless, right? But enough, you blow out to the side or do anything, I think that's wasted energy that went this way instead of that. Now did the 10,000 hour sort of rule apply here? Like, what do you think? When do you think you started to kind of get in the groove of it? I'm sure I got into the groove of it,

Starting point is 00:25:21 learning how to throw in college, right? Yeah. So I already knew the point that everything has to be led with my right hip. The further distance that I can create between my right hip and my right arm holding the implement, the further it's going to go. So I already knew that.

Starting point is 00:25:37 But then things came together in the Highland Games. I remember during the first full season I competed. Like things started clicking and I started hitting big throws and then started hitting big throws really consistently. And then when they started getting consistent, that's when things get fun. Like that's the best thing in the world about throwing is when it just starts lining up and the techniques there and you've built enough hours into it, that I mean, there's a lot of variables in the throw, right?

Starting point is 00:26:09 So I've got to think, shift my weight over the left foot, turn, I need to kick the right foot out, I've got to switch the hip and front, I need to land, keep the right foot turning, land, keep the shoulders behind, push the right foot through, block with the left shoulder, initiate the shoulder, push the hand out, finish, reverse, stay in. Yeah. You know, for example, yeah, it's a fucking lot of stuff. No, this is all

Starting point is 00:26:30 one side driven. Do you ever go on the other side? You don't have time. Yeah, you don't have time to be good. Yeah. Just this is your sacrifice to try to be good at a sport. Asymmetrical. Yeah, yeah. There's no such thing as sports at a high end that are healthy. That are essential. Yeah. God, thank you. There's a big fucking difference between someone who wants to be a competitive athlete and someone who's a participant. God, that's true. That's great. Is this something that we try and talk about all the time? All the time, is that like is writing a bike healthy?

Starting point is 00:26:57 Fuck yeah. Is competing in the Tour de France? No. No. A little different. Yeah. So true. Matt, I want to get into your business mind a little bit, man, because you seem like a pretty savvy business dude. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:27:06 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:27:14 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:27:22 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm traveling a lot for work and hanging out with some different people on the road and I would always kind of book meetings around where I had a Competition or there was a gem. I wanted to try to go see what kind of work are you doing right now this time? So at this point I'm doing outside sales and the oil and gas petrochemical field and so I'm chasing turn arounds doing stuff Of course you did sales you're very you communicate very well weird I'm very familiar that what I am professionally is a salesman.

Starting point is 00:27:47 I know this is my skill. And so at that time of traveling and ended up meeting up and hanging out a lot with Jim Wynnler. And so as we're chatting in this time, and this is probably 2009. How did you know him? I had done a long trip up the East Coast for sales. It was actually a really weird week.

Starting point is 00:28:08 I had done like two weeks up the East Coast seeing people from essentially South Carolina all the way up to Pennsylvania. I had finished the trip, I'm like, fuck you, I had known him tomorrow. 19 hours, back to Louisiana. I got a call from a customer and they're like, hey, we need someone to come out tomorrow morning.

Starting point is 00:28:23 You know, Monday morning, this was a Friday. You know, we need someone here Monday morning, nine o'clock to come, look at these drawings and, you know, see what we need for this upcoming work. Cool, you're in St. Louis. I'm in Philly, that is not on the way home. So drive over the weekend.

Starting point is 00:28:42 And since I'm on the week, I was in Philadelphia where there's a gym, Iron Sport, Steve Pulsanella runs, and he knows Dave Tate and the guys from Elite. So he connects me and he's like, hey, everybody mind's gonna come through. Do you mind if you train? So I end up training it a lead over the weekend

Starting point is 00:28:55 and while I'm in there, Windler comes through and we hit it off. So we hit it off over, I don't know, it was a really awful day of running prouller at that time. Like everyone kind of dies during it and then he and I are just still running and going. So we end up shooting the shit, going to dinner and hanging out and have just been friends since. And at the time he's like, anybody ever written a book for Highland Games? And I'm like, nope.

Starting point is 00:29:21 And he's like, are you gonna? And I was like, I don't know. And he's like, you should. Otherwise, I'm going to. I'm like, there's your motivation. Put the heat on you now. Yeah. Well, all right. And I was like, I don't even know how you'd go about doing these guys.

Starting point is 00:29:34 So we talk and stuff like that. And so he kind of mentored me through it. And so I wrote a book basically laying out my training for the games. The training for the games at that point, like essentially everybody was just meatheads. And so those guys doing different powerlifting stuff like this to get good for the games. The training for the games at that point, like essentially everybody was just meat heads and so guys doing different powerlifting stuff like this to get good to the games. I'm like, why wouldn't you just train like a thrower? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:51 The way we did in college, it's different. We compete 20 times a year. You don't do four contests, like the way you do in powerlifting. So part of competing 20 times a year and trying to peak for three games of the season is some of these, you're not gonna be your best at, because you train straight through them.

Starting point is 00:30:08 This is an organized practice for you to get used to competing. And if you don't look at it that way, I'm not saying you're not gonna throw well, but you may have done 10 sets of 10 on squats, 48 hours before the competition. Wow, so you actually account for that. Yeah, you have to. Yeah. This contest doesn't matter. Yeah. You're doing 20 of them. Right, so you actually account for that. Yeah, you have to. Yeah. Like, this contest doesn't matter, yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:26 You're doing 20 of them, right? Oh yeah, for every year. You can't peak for 20, you know, most seasons, I did 22, 23 games. So, I mean, you just can't peak for 23 weeks from May until September. Now, are there some that help your ranks more than others as far as the events are concerned?

Starting point is 00:30:43 No, not so far as the events are concerned. The ranking always came from because we do the same nine events every week. It's not like strong man. It's never a change. And so you could rank people, the Catholic and Stale scoring throughout the country no matter where they threw. And so that gave you your top 10.

Starting point is 00:30:59 Is this common to compete so much in the high? In the Highland games, yeah. Okay. It's not nearly as physically abusive on the body as strong man or powerlifting or any of that, right? And so, I mean, for example, the last year I competed was 2016 and was in Scotland for 16 days and I competed 11 times. Wow.

Starting point is 00:31:17 It's brutal. Wow. But, I mean, you get used to it. And you know, the biggest difference you learn as a thrower competing that much is like how to turn it on and how to turn it off. You just can't stay up for that. You know, the way you see guys just, oh, geeked out.

Starting point is 00:31:34 So you decide you decide to write a book? Yeah, so I ended up writing a book, wrote, throwing lab. Is a training lab is the first one I wrote. And essentially broke down. Here's what you should do for your entire season of lifting. If you're this many, in many weeks out from a competition that fucking matters,

Starting point is 00:31:50 here's how you'd set up a peak. Here's how you would build a speed and power program. Here's how you would do strength cycle. Here's how you would do your off season. Mm-hmm. And so put that out and sold some copies. And one of the things I wrote about in the book was the hate, the mentality kind of

Starting point is 00:32:07 where the brand had come from. And basically describing that like, you know, these athletes, like your Jerry Rice, your guys like these, that you'd hear these stories about, that like, you know, despite the Jerry Rice is the best, you know, wide receiver in the history of football, that this guy is still out running hills, you know, at four AM, he's catching bricks,

Starting point is 00:32:24 he's still practicing routes. And like, that fucking guy hates himself out running hills, you know, at 4 a.m. Catching breaks, he's still practicing routes. And like, that fucking guy hates himself more than I do. You know, and so, you know, be willing as an athlete to, to own that, that like, be willing to outwork your competition. I mean, I, I can't be any taller. I can't do any of those things. So I can either dwell on that or say, what can I do? And what I can do is any of those things. So I can either dwell on that or say, what can I do? And what I can do is show up on time.

Starting point is 00:32:47 I can outwork you and I can put in the effort, put in the reps. And so, hate yourself more than the next guy. A little bit of self-loading goes a long way. And so, I mean, that's essentially where the mentality came from. And so, I talked about that and wrote another book. The brand is born at that point.

Starting point is 00:33:05 Yeah, at that point. Yeah, at that point. So, wrote another book, Throwing Lab, which broke down all the throws from a technical standpoint. It's a good book, it is terrible to fucking write. It's essentially bullet points of what I just said about the stone. But are you blowing people's minds at this point?

Starting point is 00:33:24 Because you're saying that the world would be trying, there's not that many people. You know what I mean? Like it's a tiny game. I'm selling dozens of these months. It's very group of people. Yeah. Number one, Highlands Games sell.

Starting point is 00:33:35 But it is selling. But it's a weird spot because nobody's done this with the games. And so the old guards a little pissy like it was just guy coming in here telling people I don't drink. I don't drink. I'm being authority of everything. Yeah. And so I put you know, the old guards a little pissy like it was just guy coming in here telling people I don't be authority of everything. Yeah, right. And so I put this book out like here's how I'm training for the full season did it want a world champion chip.

Starting point is 00:33:52 Which is also really weird because success doesn't teach you very much. Failure teaches you a shit load. Mm-hmm. And so like taking second place the year before I was like, all right. What do we fucking change? Where was I week? Where do I do this? I win the next year and I'm like, all right, well that worked. Yeah, that's like preservation. Winner. Like you would just start over. So ended up doing that.

Starting point is 00:34:17 It had those two books out. And then at the end of 2014, you know, fans and stuff like that, we're asking, you know, we put out a shirt, put out a shirt, dude, you know, the hate shirt, you know, blah, blah, I were asking, you know, we put out a shirt, put out a shirt, do you know, the hate shirt, you know, blah, blah, blah, I'm like, I don't wanna do that. Like, I don't have time to ship stuff. Like, I have a job that pays well in a career and like, I don't have time to go ship,

Starting point is 00:34:36 go to the post office every day this week just to sell one shirt a day. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of people don't realize that. Like, so I try to start three different clothing lines as a kid growing up to where I'm at now. And I remember when Mind Pump really started taking off, that was all the fans are like,

Starting point is 00:34:52 oh, make the shirts, make the shirts. And I'm like, you guys don't understand, there's not as much money as you think. Just fucking snap my fingers. Yeah, and you're not gonna get rich off of it. You're really not. When you start to add in what it costs to now pay somebody to handle all the shipping. It's like, you're not making, you're not

Starting point is 00:35:08 getting becoming a millionaire unless you're already somebody who's Joe Rogan's type famous. Then you could. Right. But then again, it's still the smallest thing that's bringing income to his. You know what I mean? Exactly. No, exactly. The model today, I think, with apparel is you don't look at it as your money maker. You look at it as more advertising Yeah, you know, yeah, and it's it's gone well So we we did that and essentially some like I don't want to do it because I know I don't have time And I'm not gonna be able to do it well and you know, you can't tell people like well I ship every Thursday The fucking Amazon exists right can't tell people you know who ordered on a Saturday

Starting point is 00:35:43 They like we'll get it out sometime next week. Right. And so another guy had met through, through Windler, who was helping Windler with his apparel. He's like, hey, man, I own a, you know, a print company and I've got a warehouse and I can do all your drop shipping. I can do everything for you.

Starting point is 00:35:58 Is that it cans of city. And I'm like, what do you think? Can he's like, look, run a pre-sale, see who orders, we fulfill it, take whatever profit we have, buy more inventory. Really? Okay. There's no risk to that. Yeah, that's no problem.

Starting point is 00:36:14 I have fucking any risk at all. So we did it, sell 50 shirts over the one week that I've got pre-sale up. Roll those into more shirts, bought more shirts. It's just been doing that since. Oh, wow. Ever since then, I just think, now have you left the other job completely and that's all that they decided they fired me in March of this year? And like, I can sell that anyway, I want to, I mean, they didn't want to keep pursuing stuff in Louisiana,

Starting point is 00:36:44 where I was about four and a half hours from the main office. And, you know, they just weren't growing that way and didn't want to put an office by me and fill it with people for me to actually sell. Whereas, all my competition in the area has that. So, if I'm trying to compete, like, I've got a paper de-em to a group of guys who comes and does the work.

Starting point is 00:37:02 It's just not competitive. And so, they let me go and I didn't get fired because I was like stealing from a money thing, but as far as I'm concerned, they decided one morning that they weren't interested in giving me a paycheck for my job anymore and that's getting fired. So they let me go and I was like,

Starting point is 00:37:19 well, I guess we'll make a run at this fucking apparel thing. Right. You know, and the wife was cool. And, you know, I'm really, really glad at that point. I didn't walk inside and say, I think I'd like to start an apparel company. Yeah. That'd be a terrible idea. But since it was already working, it's going great.

Starting point is 00:37:37 So that's essentially what I do for a living now, is that YouTube and podcast, and I've got some sponsors and stuff like that. So what are you liking about that? Because this is a total career shift, when you think about it, it's great. It's great because I essentially wake up every day and do whatever the fuck I want. And so that whatever the fuck I want is get on a plane and go to Denver and talk to these people that inspire me or meet some new people and find some new life experience and do this type of stuff. What's going to make me a better me? And that's really what I'm chasing.

Starting point is 00:38:06 That's cool. What are things that you're doing now that to make you a better, what are things you're into? It's really trying to surround myself, right? With like-minded people, but not the same mind. I'm not looking to be validated by the people I talk to or books I read or anything like that. I want something new.

Starting point is 00:38:24 I want a new insight. I want new life experience. I want those type of things and I really enjoy getting feedback and helping other people realize that they can do the same, right? And travel has always been big for me. And now that I don't have this other job, I kind of travel as I want to. But it's meeting new interesting people like your Kyle Kingsbury

Starting point is 00:38:46 who's got a complete different outlook on a lot of things than I've had. And just opened everything, right? Like the way I feel about it is like show up, be an office. Have you always been like that? Open-minded for growth, or is that something that did something a pivotal time in your eye for you?

Starting point is 00:39:03 Like I need to fucking change. I mean, I feel like I've always have been, but for sure pivotal role, I guess would be I'm 34 now, I'll be 35 in April. And when I was 31, I just turned 31. My father died. My dad got pancreatic cancer and it passed away, right? And was when he died, he was 62. And so the only thing, we didn't have a weird relationship or any of that, things are fucking great, it's just super sad, fucking dad died, right?

Starting point is 00:39:33 And- How old is your dad when he died? 62. Oh, he's young. Yeah, so I was 31 at the time and I just couldn't help thinking and I kept having this fucking loud voice in my ear, I was like, you're fucking halfway. Oh, that's first and foremost, I just went through my head,, I'm like, you're fucking halfway. Oh, first thing I just went through my head,

Starting point is 00:39:45 you said that right now. You're fucking halfway. And if that's true, what the fuck are you doing? And that was a big fucking moment, man. And part of that was like gas pedal. Let's go, let's go, because I couldn't, me and my dad worked in a, worked in the oil and gas industry as a welder, a boulder maker, made a great living, me, my dad worked in a, you know, worked in the one-guest industry as a welder,

Starting point is 00:40:05 a boulder maker, made a great living, took care of myself, my brother, my mom, and all this shit, and you know, it was good, dad. And they had just basically started like getting out and traveling and doing stuff for them. And probably the last four or five years before he had passed. And because you got time, you're fucking young, you're 60.

Starting point is 00:40:27 You know, but he never took care of himself or anything like that. And not that that's how you get pancreatic cancer, but he definitely didn't put any cards in his favor. And so, I just couldn't, you know, he got sick on a trip with him, and mom and fucking came home went to the doctor and 11 months later he's dead.

Starting point is 00:40:43 And so like, my fuck, I can get hit by a fucking bus tomorrow. So let's go. Yeah. And if I look at things like that this time is fleeting, that the fucking clock is ticking, and I've got today, this is all I'm certain of, I don't have tomorrow, and I don't have yesterday, that shit is done. Good or bad, that checks cashed.

Starting point is 00:41:05 Mm-hmm. And so, what can I do today? What can I do more of to not waste any of that time? You have kids, I know you're married. Yeah, no kids. No kids, yeah. We spent about a year and a half trying and, unsuccessfully and so, that gets weirdly stressful too.

Starting point is 00:41:24 So essentially, we've kind of pumped the brakes on that and like if the universe decides that we're gonna have kids, we'll have kids. Nothing I can do about it anyway. You just hang out with me. Yeah, right. Yeah, fuck yeah. I do have a cool shit bro.

Starting point is 00:41:36 Yeah, same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, it's one of those laugh of things my wife and I have talked about, you know, our friends who were all, you know, our age with kids and shit like that. I'm like, oh, cool. You guys went to go watch a Wiggles reunion.

Starting point is 00:41:47 Oh, man. I went to, it's not so true. My wife and I went to Italy for the week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our story just started. It's the same thing. I get it. Oh, you're broke.

Starting point is 00:41:57 Yeah, I got it. My girl and I said, we've been together for seven years. We're 36 and 37, say it all time. And we're not anti having kids. Yeah, right, right. Like you said, the universe lets it happen, it happens, type of deal, but right now, but we had those exact same,

Starting point is 00:42:10 because you see everyone married and having kids now. Oh, it's the best thing you ever, and I'm like, really? Cause you know what I mean, I think honestly, like if I would have had the, you know, the fucking, the first job that I had in the petrochemical industry is a sales guy, like if I'd have had that job

Starting point is 00:42:23 and that was gonna be it for the next 30 years, right? Doing that grinding it out. I'd have kids by now. I have a lot less options. And kids are an option that would have worked great for that life. But now I've kind of broken to a weird spot where the options are what I need to do

Starting point is 00:42:39 to keep growing the thing that now pays our bills is go and meet and do because people aren't coming to me. And I'll never expect that. You know, I want to go and experience people on their turf. Yes, rad. Not bring them into my fucking little weird world. And so that's what I'm into. And so make a run at it. And see what we can find. That's such a great attitude. Fantastic. When we first started, I remember people couldn't put it together where we, we, we, no, a lot of people don't know this. So this was the first time I think we shared this on the podcast that, you know, we had to,

Starting point is 00:43:12 we had to front the money to flop. We flew our cast in. We how we did everything to get him to come on because when we were small and we're just getting started, the fuck is mine pump. Right. I make a come on your show. And so we had to so we had to actually, I mean, it was a major hustle and we would go in,

Starting point is 00:43:27 we still do that. We just got back from L.A. We did a 10 shows in three days. And so, No, that's just cheap. Yeah, no, not at all. Not at all. It's not cheap.

Starting point is 00:43:36 It's a lot of work and it's a grind, but it's also super rewarding too. I think you have to know, because the mindset you have right now, like man, the amount of growth that we've gone through in the last three years with meeting all these really, really cool people. Have you had anybody that just told you wowed you that you weren't ready for and you were like, oh, I did not expect that person to be like this?

Starting point is 00:44:00 Probably Kelly stir it. Ah. So I'd started a YouTube channel and I'd filmed like a bunch of training and bullshit and regular things you do and you're like, I can make videos using my flip cam and posted a bunch of that and then I got with a buddy of mine and I was like, dude I got an idea for a project I'd really like to do and I like traveling. I know some interesting people and I've definitely got connections to other interesting people through that network And so I wanted to film you know this the Drift Alift series that I've got on my YouTube channel So we do it about once a year. So this is 2014

Starting point is 00:44:38 Something whatever and so I've decided like fuck we're gonna go do this and so I talked to my buddy We're in flat to California. We're gonna interview Kelly We're gonna view Mark Bell and go talk to Jesse Burke And I've known Mark and so then I know Jesse and I know Kelly so we go in and meet with Kelly and Man fucking grounds running, but I mean like all this was my bill You know, I paid for this because it was something I wanted to create right and Go and talk to him and and he and I and his wife hit it off. I think we hit it off talking about mid-century modern furniture.

Starting point is 00:45:09 So I know. Super random. Yeah, it wasn't overstretching. And so since then, I mean, like Mark Kelly and Jesse are really, really close friends. And I would say more than anyone else, like I really get along with Kelly very well. We, uh, he's as close to kind of mentor role for a lot of stuff that I've ever had.

Starting point is 00:45:30 And, um, he's, he's great people. They're wildly positive, you know, his family and kids are amazing. And we've got, you know, their, their family friends at this point. And so, I mean, we stay with them for New Year's. Well, we were up there a couple of weeks ago, and in July or June, my wife will know better. We've got a 16 day rafting and camping trip in the Grand Canyon with Kelly and Juliet and her kids and a bunch of other people, and that should be, that should be really, really good.

Starting point is 00:45:58 Have you done that before? I heard that's amazing, do you? It's like no phone disconnect. Yeah, no, that's the big 16. You're shitting in a five gallon bucket and stuff like that. I've had family and friends that's amazing. Yeah, it's like no phone disconnect. Yeah, no, that's the big 16. You're shitting in a five gallon bucket and stuff like that. I've had family and friends that done that shit. Should be cool, said it's awesome.

Starting point is 00:46:10 So, you know, to kind of get ready for that, you know, the wife and I were talking about things I was like, let's fucking drive out. Let's drive out there, it's ona to do it. She's like, yeah, and I'm like, look man, after 16 days of like disconnect and this environment of this close knit group and kind of this tribal thing that you get from that and getting to actually know

Starting point is 00:46:29 these people, I just don't know that I can stomach going to the airport. Hmm. Fucking hate the airport. Oh, so we, I like going places. Yeah. But if we could, if we can, if the Japanese could stop building machines we could have sex with

Starting point is 00:46:43 and come up with teleportation. Hey, we're making progress, everybody. That's what I'm saying. If we can knock this out in like the next half hour, fucking great. But they're getting hotter every day. I know. They are really good. It's worth every penny. And so I just don't want to go to the airport and be super fucking bummed out.

Starting point is 00:47:04 Like after that trip, like I don't need to be that my integration back into society. That's funny. Yeah, we can't stand the airport. It's the worst. That's actually a really unique strategy that I don't even know if I would think about. When you put it out there like that, that makes a lot of sense. You just have this incredible, you know, being disconnected from tech and others. And you're in nature and you're with a tight group like you're saying to get right back on a plane.

Starting point is 00:47:26 Otherwise, people are rude and just hurting cattle at that point. Versus riding home with your wife where you can probably download all the stuff that you guys. That's exactly right. Now we got a rooftop tent on the trucks. We'll drive through a couple national parks and camp and hang in there. That's awesome. You know, and like that's what I want to do. I mean, look, it's really interesting because of the change of things and after 20 years of competing and lifting and doing stuff like that,

Starting point is 00:47:51 now that I'm essentially not throwing any more because of my knee, like I'm still interested in lifting that that's not going anywhere. That's just ingrained now in the DNA and something I've got to do sometimes during the week. But I want to be out of the fucking gym. Like, how do I get outside? Probably the most underrated side of competing

Starting point is 00:48:11 in the Hiring Games is you throw outside all day. That's so different. Yeah, I remember the first time I did that. Me and my, when I owned a personal training studio, me and my partner had kettlebells and I was like, hey, let's take these apart. Just chuck them. And it was the most fun I had ever had with weights.

Starting point is 00:48:27 Yeah, it's fucking great, man. And so I wanna be outside more. I'd like to do more mountain biking, do some hiking and some stuff that I'm fucking bad at, like weird long hikes or like a multiple day hike and shit like that. I wanna be out of my comfort zone. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:42 Did you grow up small town or are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did. It's Louisiana, so there's not like if there's a lot of options for metropolis. The whole state has like four million people in it. And now you're doing dimvers and New York's and Austin's and San Jose's.

Starting point is 00:48:54 I mean, what's your take? It doesn't make you like where you're at, where you live, even more, or does it make you want to move to somewhere else? It's always a double-edged sword. And so the way I've looked at it and I've talked to different people, I mean, if I could pick a place to live,

Starting point is 00:49:08 I really, really do like Norkal. I really like Werkelian, and I'm like, however, my budget's not fixing to buy myself into San Rafael. Oh my gosh. You know, this is just getting worse. I don't have 2 million to drop on a house from the 60s that needs to be gutted. So, that crazy.

Starting point is 00:49:24 Right. And so, you know, I started looking at stuff like that because after I'd lost the other job, there's nothing really keeping me there. I mean, for as long as I have my phone, attention to the eye, I can work. And so, we talked about it a little bit and then we built the house a couple of years ago and realized that we'd built the exact house we wanted

Starting point is 00:49:43 with our nice backyard and set up and we're in a neighborhood that only has 30 houses in it. It's not getting any bigger. I'm an hour from an international airport and my house was like 280 grand. I can live like a fucking king in Louisiana on a shitload less money. And it's home. I like Louisiana. I've never had to shovel hot.

Starting point is 00:50:03 Like, there's no clear in my driveway in the winter. I could fucking be outside all year. And so whether I lived here or I live in Louisiana or I was in Denver or I was in fucking Iceland, most of my time is going to be spent in this like four mile radius around my house where I go to this grocery store. I go to the gym. I go to my house. See family from there. Yeah. And so whether I'm at home or I'm here, it's this four mile radius I live in. And occasionally you go and do really cool stuff. So I can live there and get on a plane

Starting point is 00:50:34 to go to really cool stuff. Right, right, right. What I've noticed more recently, I've never traveled as much as I've traveled since we started the podcast. Sure. We're probably on a plane every month, right? Almost everything one time. Yeah, I average like plane every month, right? Almost everything a month.

Starting point is 00:50:45 I average like 40 flights a year. Okay, so here's a crazy thing that I noticed that I never realized before we'd started doing this was that, you know, the country we live in America is so massive. Yeah, it's huge. It's so big and every state is almost, not quite, but almost like another country in the sense

Starting point is 00:51:05 that you can sense and feel different culture in the state culture. 100%. And even in California, you go to Southern California, different cultures. Oh, it's totally different in North California. Oh yeah, you go to Texas. Austin is totally different from Dallas

Starting point is 00:51:19 and you go to Colorado and that's different and you go to Florida and that's different. It's like, and you can almost start to feel, you know, like Floridians are different than Californians that are different than you go to Florida and that's different. It's like, and you can almost start to feel, you know, like Floridians or different Californians that are different than Texans that are to, and it's very interesting. Have you noticed this? A hundred percent, right?

Starting point is 00:51:31 And that's really cool. You know, and I've got to spend some time, you know, in Scotland and, you know, in the UK and then, you know, Iceland and some other countries and, like, states or countries over there. I mean, like, they're not far apart and that's why everyone learns multiple languages whereas we're fucking huge. The US is gigantic. And not only that, like it still blows my mind

Starting point is 00:51:53 that people live stacked on top of each other. You fly east to west and you're like, there's no one here. Yeah, there's an awful lot of MDS. A lot of MDS. Oh shit. You could actually fit the entire United States in something smaller than Texas and have lots of rooms.

Starting point is 00:52:08 Oh, I think it's something like, like greater LA area could hold all of the people physically. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah, most of the population is like on the coast and in a few states, otherwise it's not. Yeah, we follow water. Yeah, otherwise it's super-spirited. What are, what, because you're from Louisiana, what are people from Louisianaarse. What are what because you're from Louisiana?

Starting point is 00:52:25 What are people from Louisiana like? What are some of the stereotypes or good and bad? Um, I mean, it's a state I've always wanted to visit by the way. I plan on ramping some time there. Yeah, I mean, you've watched like swamp people or anything like this, right? Like TV show, you know, you test, right? That fucking exists. I mean, I grew up in South, you know, Southwestern Louisiana, small town, about 30,000 people, it's like one high school. But I mean, like, we grew up, you know, hunting and fishing and we also trapped alligators

Starting point is 00:52:56 and did all that. So I mean, I've done seasons with 150 plus alligators tags and how shit throwing them in boats, shooting them in fucking the whole nine. So I know that that exists. And I know the people fucking from those shows. Like I know the tool to tool them, they'll down on the bar, you'll buy.

Starting point is 00:53:11 And those people exist. And you know, Northern Louisiana is a lot fucking different too. And then New Orleans is its complete on thing. Yeah. You know, New Orleans is as close to we have as a city. And it's a little rougher and it's also fucking sketchy. And once gets real sketchy really fast.

Starting point is 00:53:27 I think it's most, I think it's currently the most dangerous city on earth, which is, we're winning. All right. Well, I know, I know Stockton, California is like was rated number one on Yahoo, like two years ago as a worse city to live in. Yeah, we go for murder capital. Yeah. Who's got the murder?

Starting point is 00:53:43 Yeah. And we're real good at it. It's just too hot. I would imagine though, that's like those are basic stereotypes. Just like I'm sure people see like the Kardashians and they think fucking all of LA in California probably look like that or act like that. Is it not? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:57 Yeah, what do you think of California every time you come? I love California. I like California a lot. You guys got legal dope. Yeah. We do. California is fucking great. Weather's nice. You mean it. We do. California's fucking great, weather's nice.

Starting point is 00:54:05 You mean it's fucking 70 here, I get to wear a hoodie and not be disgusting most of my life. It's fucking hot at home man, like during the summer. People can't drive here though. No, if it starts to rain a little bit. Stupid people exist everywhere. Stupid people can't drive anywhere at anytime it rains. That's common across earth.

Starting point is 00:54:31 But man, at home, during the summer, we're 105 degrees and 90% humidity. So my garage that I train in by myself is like 92. Wow. Wow. You don't need a sauna. No, no, it's very cool. Heat shock proteins. I'm just going to add it for fun. I got this.

Starting point is 00:54:43 So Matt, you mentioned Kelly start being kind of a mentor to you now where you're at in your life. What about growing up? What turned you into the man that you are today? Did your father play a big role in that, or did you have mentors? I think a big part of my brother, right? We've always been really close.

Starting point is 00:55:03 And so Andy's four years older than me or five years school-wise. So we were never in high school together. Which was probably great. And he was a shitload better at sports than me. And so like seeing him excel and never get in trouble and not be a piece of shit, like that was, like, fuck why wouldn't I follow this path?

Starting point is 00:55:23 This seems to be working out pretty well. I'm good. And so, you know, I like doing sports. And, you know, I mean, we, I don't ever remember a point when I was asked if I wanted to play sports. It's just we weren't gonna sit around the house. So, you've got soccer tomorrow, like, oh, okay, soccer starts. And, you know, I think that, and I think with my parents,

Starting point is 00:55:41 I think it was really solid expectations. You know, they weren't crazy. But I mean, they were, also don't think they were relatively, they weren't crazy strict, because I did a lot of dumb shit, but there were consequences. You know, there was a set line of consequences. There was, you know, there was good consequences and bad consequences. These are years to choose, how you'd like to act. And, you know, and then expectations with school and grades, and there was never an expectation from sports side of thing.

Starting point is 00:56:08 That was just the thing we did. We just happened to have some decent genetics and enjoy doing it, so it worked out well. Did start withdrawing? Plead football, stuff like that growing up, right? Like football and track through high school did football and track in middle school and then Got recruited by some smaller schools for college for football

Starting point is 00:56:30 But I mean nobody was looking for six foot 270 pound line man that weren't that fast You know at schools I wanted to actually go to right and so I was a much better track athlete and And so LSU had recruited me, so I went there on a scholarship and competed for four years. Excellent, that was fun. Tell us about your podcast. When did you start it and why did you start it? I am a sweet seven episodes in.

Starting point is 00:56:55 Yeah, you're new. Yeah, it's a brand new. It's called Umso. Umso. Yeah, I'm so like that. Just kind of talk about anything. It was just kind of an expansion on getting to do this and with travel and talk to these people

Starting point is 00:57:07 and maybe have a little bit more in depth conversation. And it's stuff like being influenced by what Rogan does, which I love is that long format conversation. And like, I mean, look man, if you've only got one gear, I'm not that interested to talk to you. Like, if this is all we're gonna fucking talk about, like, it's this, this, I get it, we all know how to lift. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:57:29 Yeah, what else? Right, right, right. Why do we do this? That's one of our favorite things when we meet a guest. So we just, like, again, we just got back from LA. We saw this and we saw people like drama from fantasy factory and who else do we see that was like totally opposite of what we would normally, nothing to do with health and fitness, right?

Starting point is 00:57:46 And it's interesting. They're always scared to talk to us at first because I think we're gonna just talk about barbells and dumbbells. Well, sure, but I mean, like, I mean, that's kind of that, you know, I don't want to meet a bunch of people that you know, otherwise it's just sitting around smelling my own farts, right? Yeah, you know, which is fun, but yeah, it's just sitting around smelling my own farts. Right. Which is fun, but. Yeah, it's great. You know your own brand. Yeah. I want to meet people that don't have my background, that don't do what I do, that don't have any of this.

Starting point is 00:58:13 I want, you know, some eye opening life experience. I want some, you know, insight into something and, you know, I'm not going to gain anything, you know, only talking to someone who mirrors me. Right. All the same people. Right. You know, and I mean, while I love, you know, guys like Mark Bell or Burtick, like, we don't ever have to talk about lifting, we fucking get it. Right.

Starting point is 00:58:33 You know, this is a conversation we don't ever have to have. Right. And so it's the other stuff. You know how important that is right now? We talk about this in the podcast with where we're going with marketing and What what's happening is you know you're on Facebook or you're searching on Google and you know now Google and Facebook Figure you out and they start feeding you the same shit what you like you like you like these politics Here's the same politics. Oh, you like to loop man Yeah, you and and then it gets and the the more you get that right the more confirmation bias

Starting point is 00:59:04 You have the harder it is for you to break free That's and so I can't stress that enough to listen or especially the younger generation coming up the importance of Seeking out people that you you might not agree with or seeking out people that do nothing related to what you do Right and making sure that you're always doing that and then even when you get good information is seeking out the opposing information too I I can't stress how important it is. It's becoming comfortable being uncomfortable. It's part of it.

Starting point is 00:59:30 Of course, but that's growth. That's right. That's adaptation to the weights. It's all the same lessons I've learned in the gym and then the biggest lessons I've learned from the gym is the fact that the entire time I competed, I trained by myself and my garage and through by myself. No one gives a shit.

Starting point is 00:59:48 Like, no one fucking cares if I hit a PR today in the gym. This is for me. And so that changes my outlook on training a lot with ego because, oh man, am I gonna add five pounds to that bar and go chase a single in a garage by myself? Or do I take five pounds off and hit a fucking triple? Which one of those is going to make me stronger? It ain't the one.

Starting point is 01:00:10 Do more work. That's interesting because what you see now is everybody making sure they capture it and put it on Instagram. Great. You have to. You know, you're a great person to ask that question too. What are some of the things in, since we've avoided our field, our obvious field that we're all in,

Starting point is 01:00:27 what are some of the things that drive you crazy that you see going on right now? I, for the life of me, I just don't understand figure competition. That's all. I, I just don't, dog and pony show. I get the amount of work and discipline, bodybuilding or bikini or any of that take.

Starting point is 01:00:46 It is a fuckload of effort. I have really problems with subjective sports. I beat you because I fucking threw this further. This is a really easy way for us to manage. Clear line right here. We don't have to debate anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also don't understand the sport that women allow

Starting point is 01:01:03 that butthole shot that they have to The cross-layish back Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is part of your sport. This this is how you judge a thing Yeah, like the guys don't have to fucking do this. I see the judge like oh, yeah Which I would I believe that a bunch of A perverted old guys came up with that when they were first done Let's make them do this It's just so

Starting point is 01:01:27 It's creepy Weird to me And it's I think it's really detrimental And I think I think a lot of people get into that route Men and female both go the aesthetic route because

Starting point is 01:01:39 You know, it doesn't take a lot of talent It takes discipline And anyone can fucking have discipline. And so this is a great avenue for people to do that. But I also see it break so many fucking people. And it breaks more women than it does men. Because it really... What do you think that is?

Starting point is 01:01:58 What if fucking rewards people starving? It rewards this side of things, not a performance. You know, like oh fuck I just have to be lighter than the next time and browner Like come on man Like I love you man. I wish we could get away from that So I share this on the show all the time right when I so I competed if you didn't know that already and I used it as a platform to do what we're doing right now.

Starting point is 01:02:25 And I remember I met a few people who ended up being friends and I just remained friends with them because they were, there's less than a handful. So I can count on one hand how many people I've met and from amateur all the way to professional level that saw it the same way I did. Like, okay, this is getting a ton of attention. It's a growing sport.

Starting point is 01:02:43 These are all the covers of the magazines. These are the people everyone's looking up to. Let's use that to get some attention and then catapult and then redirect the message. Look, and backtracking on what I've said, if competing in these things, if you're doing it for you, fuck yeah. If you're doing this because this is how you get better.

Starting point is 01:03:03 This is how you push yourself. This is how you manage discipline and stress and do all these other things. Fuck yeah. But if you're doing it for some shitty three foot tall bowling trophy, come on. I'll buy you one. Well, what I was blown away by was the amount of body image issues, poor relationships, food, and poor relationships with exercise that I found. You would have thought that, okay, these are some of the elite physics that are out there, super disciplined to get there.

Starting point is 01:03:35 So if you're that disciplined, I would assume that you were dialed in. And when I got backstage and started talking to all these other competitors, I was floored by how terrible the advice was that they were given and the protocol that they were following. And I thought, holy shit, these guys are doing so much damage. They have no idea. And they're listening to some dumbass coach that's telling their 30 competitors all the

Starting point is 01:03:58 same information. Just yikes. Yeah. And it's all the way through to the professional level. And I could not believe that. I saw more of that in the competitive world and I could not believe that I saw more that in The competitive world than I ever saw in the thousands of clients that I trained my entire career, right? So I thought that was really crazy and fascinating

Starting point is 01:04:14 So it's a lot of what we talk about in the show and I agree with you, man. It's a it is it's a crazy sport It's just not for fuck. I don't get it. It's not for me If that fucking if that's what fucking blows your hair back. Yeah. It's not for me. Yeah. Yeah. If that's what, if that's what, fucking blows your hair back. Yeah. That's not for me. I, I just think if you identify with how you look so much and then you enter into a sport where that's your value is how you look, it can be, not always, but it can be a recipe for disaster. Well, of course, right?

Starting point is 01:04:40 But what it falls back on is it, it's no different than fucking getting leaner and having abs as it is, you know, having more money or having this next thing. If you're not fucking happy, those abs ain't gonna make you happy. No more is that extra, you know, 100 grand a year. If you're fucking miserable, you're gonna be miserable with cash.

Starting point is 01:05:01 Right. So sort your fucking self out. Yeah. You're not fucking self out. Yeah. You're not just blowing smoke. There's actually, they've actually done scientific study on this. I mean, with money, for example, once there is a particular basic meat needs, it's like 75 or 80 grams.

Starting point is 01:05:16 Something like that. I think they said $70,000 for a household in America. Beyond that, there is no more correlation or relationship to becoming more happy. So in other words, if you have a house, it's just a really fucking long way away. I mean, it's just because people are surviving at that level. Like if you're, you know, if you're someone struggling and you're making, you know, you two kids, single parent knocking out 30 grand a year, definitely.

Starting point is 01:05:43 Like you're in this weird spot that you can't fucking get out of. You're just treading water because let's say you're making this 30 grand a year. Definitely. Like you're in this weird spot that you can't fucking get out of, you're just treading water because, let's say you're making this 30 grand a year and you're super frugal and you do the right things. So you're putting away 200 bucks a month away from your expenses and rent and stuff like that. Maybe. If you could even do that. Maybe. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:02 And okay, cool. So you also don't have a vehicle that's terribly reliable. Right. So you end up with a flat tire and now need a new tire wheel and alignment. Everything I've saved in the last six months has gone. You subsurban, right away. Yeah. Yeah, or now I'm negative.

Starting point is 01:06:17 Right. And like, man, that's tough. Like that trading water thing that's survival, that's tough. And... But once you get out of that, I mean they even do studies on lottery winners. Yeah, yeah, they fucked that up all the time Well lottery winners, I think it's like they're they're they're happier for like I don't remember how many years and then done and then it goes back Back to baseline right so now they're millionaires, but they're still you're so true. Yeah, we're most of them actually you'll broke Jim Kerry said I've quoted this several times now. Jim Carey recently said,

Starting point is 01:06:46 I wish everybody could get rich and famous so they can know that that's not the answer. Right. Yeah, no, that's 100%. If you're not fucking happy, that was a weird thing. I spent, yeah, I was really broke straight out of college, opened a bicycle shop with a buddy of mine and was real fucking broke doing that for four years.

Starting point is 01:07:05 And I got out of that and got a real job that I don't particularly care about, but it's easier to pay my bills than be upset. So head jobs and shit I didn't like and then worked up a ladder to a job that paid well enough that things were pretty cool, right? And then by the time I'd got let go, in March, I essentially had, you know, hate brand was was paying me as much as the real job. So I've got a sweet income between these two, you know, especially for where I live. But there was definitely a weird awakening and like taking a minute to think that,

Starting point is 01:07:40 like, things are okay when I got fired. I'm like, oh, my income just got cut in half. Fuck. And then, you know, it was like, like now eight months later, fucking cares. Right. You know what, I'm not, I'm not any less happy. I have enough money to do the things I wanna do.

Starting point is 01:07:58 The really only difference is the amount of money that ends up in a savings account so some fucking weird digital number that's a high score that I don't touch. Anyway, I mean, it's never, I'm never gonna be a guy that's like, well, God enough, I guess I'll stop working. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:14 You know, there's no fucking there. Yeah, no, to the end of this road. It's a dead end. And I believe it or not, the faster you get there, I think that sooner you die too. I believe that too, man. People live a little bit longer when they have a job to do. I have no purpose. That's the fact actually. Yeah, again, back by side think the sooner you die too. I believe that too, man. People live a little bit longer when they have a job to do.

Starting point is 01:08:25 I have no purpose. That's the fact actually. Again, back by side. Yeah, you fucking retire, you know what you do, die. Right, great work. No shit, dude, that's how it is. That's why I tell people to have no plans of retirement. No, I'll be doing something till I die.

Starting point is 01:08:37 I hope I die for doing something. My retirement, the reality is, I mean, besides the hustle and bustle of my kids are young and all that sort of stuff, I'm kind of like, this is almost like retirement for me in the sense that I love what I do so much that I really don't consider it. Of course, right? I get tired and all that stuff, but it's not, there's not a second I don't enjoy. Like, there's nothing at this fucking point.

Starting point is 01:08:56 There's nothing I actually hate more than like meeting a stranger. And they're like, oh, what are you doing? Like, nothing I hate more than saying I run an apparel company. Like, oh, I'm fuckingyear-old with a beard, run a selling t-shirt, it's all you. Try saying you're a trainer. Right, it sounds cool though. No, just say consultant.

Starting point is 01:09:12 I just say unemployed. I'm a fucking... I have a job, it doesn't matter. It's like saying you're a writer for a long time. I'm an artist. Oh, you're unemployed. It's like I say it and I be like, but we're doing really well.

Starting point is 01:09:24 I feel like I have to do a side step. You gotta do it. We're doing good, man. I love it when I tell people I have a podcast. When I first met my girlfriend. The hell do you make money? Yeah, when I first met my girlfriend's dad, he's like, so you have a podcast.

Starting point is 01:09:38 What else do you do? What else do you do? What else do you do? That's all I do. How do you, how does that make money? Do you guys like, like, people paid a list of your podcasts? No, no, no, it's a I do. How do you, how does that make money? Do you guys like, people pay to list your podcast? No, no, no, it's a free podcast. Anybody can list your podcast.

Starting point is 01:09:49 It's totally free. The look on his face is like, it's free and you do it. And how the fuck do you make money? Dude, I think about this all the time, right? I think about like my grandfather, you know, guy born in the, you know, late 20s, early 30s, you know, died, you know, at 96 or something years old, you know, probably 10 years ago. And I think about

Starting point is 01:10:07 conversation with this guy, like, what were two vet blah blah blah guy who worked for fucking 40 years for Exxon, you know, did it, did the American dream, you know, white picket fence and fucking house and, you know, never moved his entire life. And like talking to him, he's like, so how's things? How are things going? I was like, well, I've gotten a parallel company. He's like, to him he's like so how's things how are things going like well I've gotten to parallel companies like oh that's great you know you guys have a store no all right so you you sell stuff online like yeah yeah you know some people buy stuff and he's like okay cool so people buy and you ship it

Starting point is 01:10:38 out and like well I don't personally like I've got a place that ships it out well they're in Kansas I've never been there. You know. They're who'd met them. No, I've never been to the warehouse that has all my fucking inventory in it. And he's like, so what is it you say you do? It's like, I take the goddamn information

Starting point is 01:10:57 from the customers to the engineers that they don't have to interact. That's a fucking people person. I connect people. Like they got on office space. Oh shit. What's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what's this, what Shed some light on what it's like. And I know you don't like to be labeled to that or attached to that, but I think there's a lot of people that have a misconception of either one.

Starting point is 01:11:29 How easy is, oh, I just come out. I got a cool logo. I have a cool brand. Shed some light on what it's taken to build it to where it can become a sustainable income like you. And some of the things that you think are extremely important if you're going to do that. I think my credibility in lifting in the Iron Sports helped. There's no fucking doubt about it, right?

Starting point is 01:11:49 So you had an audience first. Yeah, I had an audience first. I was already doing some YouTube stuff. I was already writing books and had done these type of things and people relatively knew who I was through a bunch of different animals. You know, avenues and this is pre-instagram, stuff like that. And so you would, you would grow into being a big fish

Starting point is 01:12:07 in a small pond by now. So even though your pond is not huge, right? Yeah, yeah, in the Highland games, yes. Right. And then I was able to transfer that by starting to go meet, you know, leave my comfort zone to go meet guys like Kelly and Mark and this and that and then be on Mark's podcast. It's not hard to meet awesome people.

Starting point is 01:12:24 It's the tricky part is being someone they'd like to hang out with the second time. Great point. Yeah, great point, dude. Because if it's just more creepy, we don't have a fucking relationship. Right, right. You're just then an episode.

Starting point is 01:12:38 Right. I wanna build relationships with more fucking awesome people. For sure. And that'll play out however it plays. Guy that's such an important point, man. Your true net worth is your net circle. Yeah, you know, that idea. And so, yeah, it's never been this really hard sales thing.

Starting point is 01:12:53 And I try to stay away from, you know, trust my go-to and I'm like, oh, that feels gross. Let's not do that. You know, like even the kick-to-dand-dick thing. Like, hey man, you guys should do a shirt, a shirt with that. Like, no, I wouldn't wear it. And that's my opinion. Will it sell? Fuck it would sell. Am I gonna make it? No, I think it's lame. So it's my partner. Right, you know what I mean? And so you gotta have a little bit of a line

Starting point is 01:13:18 there that you that you don't break and be a genuine person and not, and people can fucking smell fuckery. They smell it. Especially today. Yeah. There's so much bullshit out there and look, some people get away with it and good on them. But that was never going to be the fit for me. I don't have a good enough memory to be a liar.

Starting point is 01:13:38 Do you design all your own stuff? Because I think a lot of your stuff is really cool. Um, creative side of it, yes. So typically I will come up with concept and I'll sketch and do that. And I am a terrible digital artist. But I've been really lucky that some guys that I had worked with years past as a tourmanaged

Starting point is 01:13:56 for a band, they are very good at it. What kind of band? Just rock band. Toured around and did that for a few years and it was fun. And then drew the guy who, uh, who was a singer for the band now owns a creative agency, uh, this company slash and I've known him for 12 years. And so the beauty of working with him is I can show up with what I've got

Starting point is 01:14:19 sketched out. And since he doesn't have to go, hey man, give me five designs from scratch. Like, what do you want? Just anything, that's a fucking worse thing you can tell a creative person. So, yeah, so I show up with what I want and then he can make it into usable digital art and polish and make it great.

Starting point is 01:14:39 And so that's where they come in and do that side of it for me, but the actual concepts and all that, yeah, that's all me. Do you have a favorite or a bestseller? Like, the original shirt we ever did is this kind of craft beer labeled looking hate shirt. You know, it says, you know, handcrafted in the dirty south. And that shirt we've kept on the site forever and has always sold really, really well.

Starting point is 01:15:06 That's cool. Excellent. You seem like a growth-minded individual. What are things or areas that you're currently exploring or growing in that have nothing to do with fitness? Um. So business-wise or life-wise? Whatever.

Starting point is 01:15:22 Yeah. Okay. What excites you the most, I guess right now? Adventure. Adventure new experiences. That's the big one. That's the one I want to chase. And that for me is.

Starting point is 01:15:33 What was the last like big adventure for your experience? We were in Iceland for 10 days. I'm over over over over the sun. Beautiful. Went with a group of like eight of us and it was fun and it was it was a learning experience to try to have that many people involved in something and I didn't care for it. There was too many too many heads too many It was a great trip. Love all the people I went with but we were also trying to film and it was just too many fucking people and then it rained for like seven of 10 days, and so that was, creates its own broken problems, and like nowhere in Iceland's close to the next place.

Starting point is 01:16:11 And so as soon as you leave Reykjavik, like everything's a long way away, and something that's like, okay, cool, that's 30 miles from here, that may take an hour. So it's that that I'm trying to learn from, I'm trying to learn management of time better, I'm trying to learn those things from those trips. And then, you know, the other side of that trip

Starting point is 01:16:28 was like, you know, the six months we took the fucking planet and like where we were gonna hit every day in this itinerary, basically it was fucking out the window because of the weather. And so it was like, all right, well now what's the story? And the story was, you know, experiencing this awesome place with the people that we were with, not this weird plan that we had set out with before. And so,

Starting point is 01:16:54 I mean, if anything, I want to learn to be a little bit less in the driver's seat. You know, maybe take back and just let's do what happens. Or did you feel like you were a control freak before? I was trying to. I was really trying to because I had, it's tough on yourself mate. When you're a self-made guy, it's you learn to do that, right? You learned, you got to where you're at by being that guy.

Starting point is 01:17:12 Right, right. You know, we're all that guy. All of us are very comfortable making fucking choices all day. You know, and you have a group of eight people. There's some choices that don't need to be fucking up for debate. Let's Just tell us where we're going to eat. I hate that.

Starting point is 01:17:27 Well, it's not spending the next fucking four hours talking about dinner. Let's just go, I'm just going to say we're going here. So that that decision is made or like we're getting gas and then doing this. That's it. You know, like most people are like, okay, cool. And know, and so, you know, it's learning from that. I'm trying to figure out where to eat with your girlfriend. You know, and as much as I'm trying to get new experiences from shit like that and travel and those things, I'm very interested in also diving deeper into me and like what makes

Starting point is 01:18:01 me take and why do I feel this way and those type of things. And so there's definitely some interest I've got in psychedelics and some stuff like that kind of going forward. Is that more recent? Very recent. Oh, that's a real recent thing for me. I've got no experience with it from a younger years in my life or anything like that. And so.

Starting point is 01:18:20 What's it done for you? Um, in it, man, I'm still really fresh. And so there's been just a little bit of like microdosing mushrooms or something like that. And so you haven't gone full on? No, haven't gone full barge. Had some cool moments in my backyard with clouds. And then you know, had some insightful stuff, you know,

Starting point is 01:18:40 that I thought about while while being pretty high. And then, you know, I've dipped a toe in the water enough to go like, yeah, I want to see where that goes. And I'm glad at 35 and relatively confident in who I am and secure with my own feelings on things about where that journey will be, that I'm along for the ride. I'm not here to drive that boat either. Right, right. Yeah. Anything right now that you, you know, when you say you're unpacking about yourself,

Starting point is 01:19:10 right, or digging deeper into yourself, that tends to come back or you have triggers for and you've got to constantly like remind yourself, like, I gotta pull back on that. Those are my old bad habits. Yeah, I mean, look, man, we're all self-destructive in certain ways. And whether that's gonna be food issues or shit like that, I mean, since I got hurt with my knee, I've dropped 60 pounds. I don't need to fucking weigh 290 pounds at six foot, unless I'm not throwing anymore.

Starting point is 01:19:38 So that's been a lot of lessons in here. What have you done to lose the weight? Are you just changing your diet, training? I mean, I did ketogenic style diet, but I'm always weird about saying that because I didn't track ketosis the whole time. You just dropped carbs up to five. Yeah, I've got my fat, dropped my carbs,

Starting point is 01:19:57 and I lived in a Chloric deficit for a year. Which is a better way to talk about it anyways. I hate all the fucking names. Yes, sure. That's all from marketing reasons. Hey, would you do lose weight? I lived in a fucking chloro deficit for a year. Right. Right.

Starting point is 01:20:08 It worked out and stopped eating so much probably processed carbohydrates. Yeah. Switched over to eating healthy fats. Switched to food that was, is it green or did it have a face? Yeah. And if it's both, well, there you go. One of them cried. Eat some frog.

Starting point is 01:20:23 That's it. If it crawled, ran, swam, or any of those things, if it was self-propelled, or is it a green plant, I can eat as much of it as I want. People don't tend to binge on steak and kale. Crazy. More broccoli. I've done it.

Starting point is 01:20:42 Oh, same. With that said, I mean, I'm a garbage disposal. I can fucking throw food in And there's not much I don't like, but you know, it was that's that's discipline to learn You know that that bit has been has it been a challenge losing that much weight and changing because 290 pounds at six foot Pretty much any room you walk into you're the biggest you're the biggest fucker in the room Did it well, maybe not the room you walk in. We're friends. Yeah, that was just fat.

Starting point is 01:21:09 Yeah. Yeah. Did it, was that a challenge now that you're, you know, so much smaller or lean or whatever, was it a challenge to change like that? Or was it easy? The only, it's been nothing but positive response so far because I'm still, I mean, I'm still 240 pounds.

Starting point is 01:21:26 And you're still a big boy. You're a big guy, I'm strong and still like that. And it's weird having some strange shadow of abs that's never existed. But like I've flirted into kind of the mid to 30s and stuff like that and like went into a store recently and had picked up a shirt and like got home and put it on as an XL.

Starting point is 01:21:46 And it was bigger than I like shirts to fit. And I was like, hmm, not going to largest. And I thought, oh, come on, man. So, time to get back in the gym boys. That is so, I could so identify with that for sure. Cause I'm an XL guy. I'm probably the lightest I've been in the last three years right now and I've been totally good with it I'm been totally fine. I've been enjoying it and my mobility is better than it's ever been

Starting point is 01:22:12 I feel great like but as you know, I slid on a shirt that I hadn't worn in a long time And I was like oh shit. I'm not really feeling this shirt. I am not going to large dude back in the gym Oh, that was literally literally my mentality last week. I swear to God, that's so hilarious that you said. I know, my wife doesn't like things to fit as tight as I do. So she, you know, we're like mediums. I'm like, I'm not one size bigger than her. This isn't gonna fit.

Starting point is 01:22:36 Oh, I'm stupid. I'm gonna have to sort this out. Oh, shit. So, you know, it's just all changes, right? And I mean, you know, I sure as shit at 35 don't wanna be the guy I was at 30. And I sure as shit don't wanna be the guy I was at 25. Or 21 or 18.

Starting point is 01:22:56 And I really hope at 40, I feel this way again. Right. You know, and at 45 and 50. Right. I'll tell you there's something. I'm a Abraham Lincoln man. I have no respect for a man that's no wiser today than he was yesterday.

Starting point is 01:23:10 Yeah, you know, lived by that. There's something, I don't know man, there's something great about your 30s as a man. I feel like that's kind of when you, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like it's when I, like I really feel like getting comfortable there. Yeah, like I'm really me and it makes me actually look forward

Starting point is 01:23:24 to the next Decade like I what's that gonna be in my 40 shit? I feel like at 30 you really you just turn the switch on to start trying to learn about your Yeah, the first 30 years I thought I figure who this is. Yeah, you're brain fucking doesn't work at all until you're over 25 You basically shouldn't be a little just toss room and come. You should be around that. Well, if I can helmet most of the time and use Nerf U-tensils. Nerf U-tensils. So, but like, yeah, after 25, you start like, you know, there's party that's like,

Starting point is 01:23:54 I gotta stop getting fucked up and going out and doing these things like that story's old. Yeah. Like I know the experiences I'm getting from that. And you should say, what's next? Mm-hmm. And then, you know, five or six years into, you know, your early 30s, you've hopefully been maybe at the same job for a while, having an income and have some expendable income because I mean, the things are real fucking comfortable here in America.

Starting point is 01:24:18 You know, I don't have an invading army, I don't have any of these things. And so, I'm not going gonna get drafted off to war. You can focus on that and try to be part of that growth. Then worry about your own ego, right? Because I don't have any of these stresses that our ancestors have had. Which is why I think people can be so fucking offended by everything now. Because we're wildly comfortable. We're not busy enough.

Starting point is 01:24:46 Let's just be clear that there's four people in this room who make a living. Talking. Not only just talking, but talking about doing fucking fake work. Yeah. Hahaha. Like we all have muscles, we don't need to survive.

Starting point is 01:25:00 Yeah. We're not fucking doing construction work 10 hours a day. Yeah. Is we do fake work to make up for the softness our provides right? Yeah, because this is what we do all day. My job requires me to sit in a chair and punch away on a device that holds all the information if forever in it.

Starting point is 01:25:19 Oh, man. It's awesome and it's fucking crazy. Yeah, it should be though, right? Like we're fucking this is the best time to be alive ever. It's awesome and it's fucking crazy. Yeah, it should be though, right? Like we're fucking, this is the best time to be alive ever. It is. The people that like, oh, I'd love to be back alive in the 70s. I'm like, fuck that man, Central Air and heat. And I can get on airplanes.

Starting point is 01:25:34 They're not full of smoke. This is fucking wonderful. Right. Yeah, people, yeah, people, I think that's why people freak out so much with the whole offending and all that stuff. It's because we're wired to be under stress. And because there is now, we got to make it up. You get it created.

Starting point is 01:25:48 We have to create it. We have to invent it so soft. Yeah. Well, this is why we see the rise, I think, of things like the Spartan race and so that. Yeah. I mean, it's artificial. It's amazing.

Starting point is 01:25:57 Yeah, it's exploding. And I think it's because we become so plugged in and we're so detached from our own selves that we need to feel again. Right. It's a mud in my face. I need to hurt a little bit. I need to fall. Yeah. It's true. I'll never forget. My kid was, he was, he must have been six. He was young. And they were just in art, you know, class or whatever, drawing and stuff. Maybe five, maybe a younger. And he drew a picture of, you know, the school

Starting point is 01:26:25 and then there were kids and they were shooting machine guns and grenades were flying. And we got called into the office. It's happened to me too. We got called into the office for my five year old, with a meeting with the principal because there's bombs and guns and stuff and there's a picture of the school.

Starting point is 01:26:43 Maybe a scene in the news? And I'm like, yeah, and I'm like, I said, listen, I said my kids five. He's five. He's a boy. It's just five years of do. You know what I, you know, do they not sell army men anymore? Is that not a thing?

Starting point is 01:26:53 I bet they don't know. Who knows? Okay, I, I dressed up, I dressed up as a, for Halloween, I dressed as a mobster, like I'm no gangster, right? So I order my costume on Amazon. So I'm like, oh shit. I need a Tommy gun They don't sell fake guns on Amazon at all None no, I had you know what they sold a blow up a blow up Tommy gun

Starting point is 01:27:16 Like getting getting toy water guns that looked real and painting them to look like real Oh real gun airsoft guns like fuck. We were just talking about this yesterday or the day before when we were flying back from LA I said we used to play we used to shoot each other with BB guns. It was the one pump rule. You know I pump one time and you always fucking knew when your friend pumped it. Yeah. Paintball or any of this shit.

Starting point is 01:27:37 Right. Oh God man. I spent my entire kindergarten making weapons to mock like play predator. Right. You know, like with like these large tinker toy type things. I got to got kicked out of school. Oh, yeah, it's wrong with this kid. Yeah, you got thrown in jail. Like the church. I'm sure there's a there's a saying.

Starting point is 01:27:56 What is it that tough times make good man, good man, make good times, good times, make weak man, weak man make bad times. And then the cycle starts over and over. Yeah, there was a, I had a, my grandparents lived across the street from us growing up. And so it was my grandfather, my grandmother, and her sister. And I remember asking my aunt, I guess,

Starting point is 01:28:19 is what she technically is, or great aunt, or something like that, right? And sister is what we called her. And I remember asking her like why are you never married you know and this was like a ten or twelve right and she just fucking says all the good men died in the war just fucking boom you know and I've always thought about that and there's a weird quote that basically says like our country now is you know generations that were raised by cowards and cripples. And oh man, there's something to be said about that idea

Starting point is 01:28:51 that everyone fucking left, that that war too is a major fucking change to society. Huge, huge, you know. You know, there's, so here's what's interesting is that when you look at men is that when you look at, between, when you look at men and women and you look at the spectrum of, you know, on the left is, and I don't mean this politically, I mean, if you just look at a chart, on the left you've got people who are insane, go to prison, lose their minds,

Starting point is 01:29:19 and all the way on the right you've got brilliant minds, inventors, whatever, men make up a larger percentage of either end. Sure. Because, and scientists will say it's because our brains are designed to be a little bit more designed or evolved or whatever you believe in, are a little more extreme. And the reason behind that, and the prevailing theory behind that, is because men are expendable. Because you could have a society where you have 10 women to every man. And it would survive in flourish.

Starting point is 01:29:50 You could not have a society with 10 men to every woman because it just wouldn't work. It does not procreate very well. And it's because we died. We killed each other through wars and shit like that all the time. Not saying that it's a good thing, but... No, but it is a fact. It's a fact, and because we don't have lots of challenges, the same way that we had before,

Starting point is 01:30:12 it's interesting, we almost have to create challenges for ourselves, fake challenges. It's like that scene in the Matrix when he's talking about the first Matrix. We made the first Matrix to be perfect, but it just crashed and it worked as the human mind couldn't comprehend this instruction. They had to create this. Which is even more impressive, right, that there are people like, like, think fuck we live

Starting point is 01:30:38 in a time that I can make the choice to still train and work out and fucking not eat like an asshole. And watch stranger things on Netflix. Yeah, and travel and do this. Like, fucking, it's great. Things are fucking great. You know, and I know other people have way harder times than me, but like, I'm not a dude who's gonna sit there and cry about shit. No, it's a double-edged sword.

Starting point is 01:31:02 It's like, you have, because you have this free time, because you have things are so awesome compared to human history, throughout human history. You can either choose to try to grow in ways you want to, not in ways you have to. Like, I don't have to grow in hand-to-hand combat, because it's not necessary. But I choose to grow in the way I learn things

Starting point is 01:31:27 or the way I treat people or whatever. Or I can sit here and choose to just be complacent and not grow, which is not as bad. It's terrible. It's terrible for the brain, terrible for the body, and terrible for society. Yeah, I mean, like you said, get comfortable being uncomfortable.

Starting point is 01:31:44 That's what a lot of it's about. I mean You know that mentality of like things are fucking awesome right now that that's been a big part of I mean shit The last two years of essentially I've had 70 surgeries in the last two years and so that's been pretty fucking rough that went from the last time I competed I Would you do to your knee a lot? the last time I competed, I did- What'd you do to your knee? A lot. So the last time I competed, you did everything I would have been-

Starting point is 01:32:08 Yeah, I've done everything except replacement. So the last time I competed in the HON Games, I took second in the World Championship. And then essentially I was like, okay, cool, I'm never throwing again. And it's been, I've done four ACLs, they just don't take, body just rejects them. And so at this point,

Starting point is 01:32:25 it's just like, I don't know, fuck it, we're not gonna have one of those. But I did the 10 years I competed, I did without an ACL. A TORRT post college, or a TORRT in college, got to fix them, TORRT again, while I had a bike shop and no money, so I'm not fixing that. And then TORRT minuscus, really late in my career,

Starting point is 01:32:44 I guess at the end of it, now that it's late in my career, I guess at the end of it now that it's late in my career because I'm not doing it. So got that fixed, went to Fixie ACL, did this Oats procedure to try to implant some cartilage on the femoral head. And it's just never quite been right. So it's been fixing this and that. And it's essentially like there was so much wrong with my knee that it was all trying to get through a hole,

Starting point is 01:33:07 but because there was so much wrong with it, like nothing can get through, so there's no problem. But as soon as we fix something, like fuck it, everything else can shoot through, and be like, hey, what about us over here? We're shitty too. And so it's just, you know, it's been ongoing. And then, you know, that's been a real struggle

Starting point is 01:33:23 and a lot to learn from of like, okay, cool. I'm gonna walk with a limp for two years and not squat and not deadlift and how do you stay metabolically intact? And how do I still push myself in the gym and do stuff like that? Cause I mean, at the end of the day, it's effort. You know, choose to fucking put in the effort. And that's growth in anything.

Starting point is 01:33:44 I mean, you could sit there and woe as me like fuck I don't get to compete new more This is what I loved and blah blah blah blah blah. I mean let's just be clear in the last ten years after winning two world titles I've met all my favorite people I Got to travel around the world and compete in a silly sport I got to make a few bucks. I wrote a book about it that now is a business that I run that essentially pays my life. That's worth money. Good fucking trade. But don't you find that rare as far as an athlete to be able to disassociate themselves with that identity of course it is. Of course it is, but I just think they're fucking real short-sighted. Yeah. You know, I mean, the thing

Starting point is 01:34:22 I've always said to people is like when I look back at throwing in college, right, like that was, book, 14 years ago, right? Like those memories are like looking at something in third person. That's not me. Same way I feel about looking back at high school football.

Starting point is 01:34:43 That's not me anymore. And this thing throwing that I did while I loved it, and I'm passionate about strength, like none of my fucking PRs or world championships are gonna make my tombstone, man. That's a fucking thing I did. That's it. That's a different chapter and that chapter's closed.

Starting point is 01:35:00 So what the fuck's next? So many people have a hard time with that. What a great attitude on things. Do you do you like to read? Yeah? Do you what are some books that you're into now? Um, I say yeah, so I do more books on tape with traveling. Um, same difference. Yeah, same idea. Downloading the information. The books I've tried recently I end end up halfway through a lot of stuff. I picked up like, so the Lord of Not Giving A Fuck, and I got about two hours into it,

Starting point is 01:35:32 and I was like, why are you feel this way? I already know the fire, buddy. That's a great book. I already gave a shit about most of the things, apparently most people care about. Yeah. And so I don't need to waste the next four hours being validated. You know, I want something that's gonna make me

Starting point is 01:35:50 think different routes. And so a lot of that I stick to podcast. Almost consider podcast as fucking reading. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm getting- Great place to consume it from. Right, it's just, I wanna consume more information, whether that or YouTube or any of these other type of things.

Starting point is 01:36:03 And I stick with that. Book-wise, man, I guess, man, I guess I really don't fucking read very much. Truth of it, but I'm interested in Tim Ferriss's new book, the one with mentors. I think that one's interesting. And part of that's because Mark's in it and it coms in it. Well, shit, he did, I mean, what he did was,

Starting point is 01:36:21 you preferred a podcasting is, I mean, he just took all of his podcasts. And his podcast basically, and the information there and put it in a book. It was really smart. Good work, Tim. I mean, what he did was, you referred to podcasting as, I mean, he just took all of his podcasts, basically, and the information there and put it in a book. It was really smart. Good work, Tim. Yeah, all right. You know?

Starting point is 01:36:31 We might steal that one later on. Yeah, right on. It's a brilliant idea for sure. It's another way for people to digest information. I mean, what's the last real new innovation that's come in lifting? Right. So we've all been regurgitating the same shit

Starting point is 01:36:46 to people, but where people fuck stuff up and where I fuck stuff up for lifting, and I think guys like you guys do a really good job that I struggle with is that the crowd is the beginner. I mean, you guys don't need to fucking motivate me to lift. I'm not your target audience, nor. Nor are you mine. Right. It, it's the guy who's just started lifting and is now finding interest in the barbell. And that's been the real shift that I'm trying to, to become. And that's whether it's

Starting point is 01:37:14 fucking through CrossFit or it's through Highland Games or through Powerlifting or anything. If you want to pick up a barbell to get better, I'm interested. I don't fucking care how you got there. Yeah. You know, I have more in common with you than I do someone who doesn't. Right. And, you know, it's that information. And you know, what is, you know, maybe nothing,

Starting point is 01:37:35 maybe there isn't a lot new out there as far as those things, but. There really isn't. When you think about what we see, I mean, it's all about how you communicate. It's like a resurrection. Right, yeah. If anything, you see, yeah, you see, you know,

Starting point is 01:37:46 kettlebells and mace bells and Indian clubs. I mean, these things have been around forever. Forever. And now they're coming back around because, you know, why? Because none of that machine bullshit stuff that we've invented over the last 20, 30 years is better than what we've been using for hundreds of years. No, and it's, and it's variety, you know,

Starting point is 01:38:04 variety is by-s-life. And most people get so fucking bored that they need that change, to do something different. Whereas, I don't need that in the gym. I'm good. You know, hey, man, how do I get strong? Like, I don't know, man, bench squat deadlift once a week moderately heavy for the next decade. Be fine. It's so true.

Starting point is 01:38:22 You're a sort of self-hound. Yeah, you're a sort of self-hound. Yeah, it's so true. Some weeks go heavier than you did before, maybe do some or less reps. Do some for a few for the next 10 fucking years, you'll be just fine. There you go. Great, that's great advice. I think you just wrote a book.

Starting point is 01:38:37 Yeah, chapter one and done. Yeah, one and done. Right. Well, shit, man. Awesome talking. Yeah, yeah, good time, dude. This is great. Obviously won't be the last time we do this Look for you hanging out with you more often. Let's I see we go get some lunch

Starting point is 01:38:52 Friends forever we don't get lunch very often. Let's do you have something else in common? Yeah, some lunch and then we'll come back hang out some more man. Excellent. Excellent. Check it out go to mind pump TV On YouTube we post a new video every single day that 365 videos a year subscribe to our channel. our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ball, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal and Iman Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout nutrients and over 200 videos. The RGB Superbundle is like having sour, animal justice as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 661: Matt Vincent- Two Time Highland Games World Champion

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