Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 667: Chase Chewning of Ever Forward Radio

Episode Date: December 21, 2017

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Chase Chewning of Ever Forward Radio. The discussion ranges from his military service, Management, the origin of Ever Forward, PTSD and more.  You can find Chase at: Ever Forward Radio, Chasechewning.com, Everforwardapparel.com and on Instagram @chewningtheelder Podcasting his full time job? (1:49) Military got him into fitness (2:45) How has being in the military shaped him? / His journey up the ranks (4:35) Legacy How did his injury impact his legacy/how he identified with himself? (10:43) Leadership role at young age (12:22) Driven by greater good and mission E-6 ranking in 5 years Origin of Ever Forward (14:16) Any mistakes made as a young leader? (16:27) Hide behind their rank What is the underlying purpose behind his podcast? What has he learned since starting? (19:33) Ok to do what you want, your body is your best coach (24:12) Everything happens when you put purpose to it (28:25) Gift he got from his dad’s passing Dark passenger PTSD Battle Did he get addicted to pain pills? (35:02) Freak accident hitting his head from fall Embrace the suck What was PTSD like for him? How did he deal with it? (43:42) Does he find podcasting therapeutic? (54:45) Empathy in where people are in their journey Positive mask he used to hide things Favorite guests? Future plans? (1:03:15) Related Links/Products Mentioned: Defense Language Aptitude Battery (DLAB) Testing Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center Enlisted Army Ranks What Is Vlogmas And Should You Do It? NIMH » Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Grand mal seizure - Symptoms and causes What is Prolotherapy? Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Legalizing Psychedelic Medicine Treatment for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder in Military and Veteran Populations: Final Assessment Boo Thang Q&A: Interracial Marriage Edition – (YouTube) Featured Guest/People Mentioned: Chase Chewning Chase Chewning (@chewningtheelder)  Instagram Chase Chewning – (YouTube) Ever Forward Radio with Chase Chewning Ever Forward Apparel Josh Trent (@WellnessForce) Instagram Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS Prime Pro, which shows you how to self assess and correct muscle recruitment patterns that cause pain and impede performance and gains. Get it at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Also check out Thrive Market! Thrive Market makes purchasing organic, non-GMO affordable. With prices up to 50% off retail, Thrive Market blows away most conventional, non-organic foods. PLUS, they offer a NO RISK way to get started which includes: 1. One FREE month’s membership 2. $20 Off your first three purchases of $49 or more (That’s $60 off total!) 3. Free shipping on orders of $49 or more Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Get Organifi, certified organic greens, protein, probiotics, etc at www.organifi.com Use the code “mindpump” for 20% off. Go to foursigmatic.com/mindpump and use the discount code “mindpump” for 15% off of your first order of health & energy boosting mushroom products. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Also includes 20% if you purchase! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Hey, so what a fun episode, our boy Chase, right? We were on his show about a month or so ago, maybe. Ever-forward podcast. Great dude. Yes, really like that guy.

This podcast gets pretty deep, man. It gets pretty deep. We-forward podcast. Great dude. Yes, really like that guy. This podcast gets pretty deep, man. Yeah. It gets pretty deep. We talk about PTSD. We talk about, I mean, there were a few moments there was uncomfortable having these conversations because it got so good. It got so deep. You guys will enjoy it. Chase tuning has a long history in the military. He's got a great podcast called Ever-forward. Him and Adam have quite a big and common. You wouldn't think so, first glance, but we had a good conversation and it started getting pretty good. Yeah, it got pretty deep,

but I really like the message that he has, right? The message that he has and what he's doing, he's got a cool story. Yeah. And he's one of my, like as far as like, podcasters who's interviewed us, I think his flow of the podcast was. He did a good job. Yeah, like he's a really good interviewer. So we've talked about, we've highlighted a few guys that have interviewed us and girls have interviewed us, I think his flow of the podcast was. He's a good job. Yeah, like he's a really good interviewer.

So we've talked about, we've highlighted a few guys that have interviewed us and girls have interviewed us before that I think are really, really good at interviewing. I think he does a great job. He's one of those guys I have no doubt his podcast can continue to grow and do well. So I'm glad I got a good message. Good podcast.

Yeah, I glad we connected earlier. His podcast, ever forward podcast, his website is Chase tuning that's CHEWNING.com. His website is EverforwardAperial.com. And you can find him on Instagram at tuning elder. The elder. Sorry, tuning the elder. So without any further ado, here we are talking to the host of Ever Forward podcast, Chase tuning. So I was asking ado, here we are talking to the host of EverFord podcast Chase Tuning. So I was asking you earlier, your podcast has been on air since January? Yes, so I launched January 22nd of this year and here we are December. So damn, I can't believe it's already been a year just about pretty much. Wow, is it now, is that all you do now?

Is that your thing or is it so part of a bigger picture? Well, I continue to be vain and try to wear my headphones to not mess up my hair. The podcast is definitely my baby. That's my biggest focus all of this year. Actually started like some real last year when I got the concept of it and then just decided to start interviewing people and push forward.

So this year's been the podcast and then I do dabble, we're talking about in YouTube a little bit. And as of late starting October, I launched a private coaching business. So it's what I do full time as a job, but I just kind of segwayed out with that and we've got Everford Radio, Everford Apparel, and now Everford Coach. Now what made you go in this direction? I know you you surged before, right?

Yes, yes. I did six years active duty in the army. I listed right out of high school. And honestly, that whole time, that period right there was what got me started in, you know, the quote fitness industry. Oh, really? Getting started in the military?

Yeah. So were you, so you weren't fit or working out or anything like that until you got into basic training? Well, I mean, I was active in my whole life. We had, and I grew up down in the woods, like in the country, and way southwest Virginia. So we had like 200 acres, me, my brother, my sister. We would just run wild, play down in the creek,

build forts every day, and just go from there. And so I played baseball, sports growing up, and then once I went into the military, it's a pretty fucking active job, right? It's probably the most active job in the world. And I'm getting injured, I'm getting medically discharged, and then in that process of wanting needing

to really relearn the human body in a different way, versus just being active because it's what I can do, but really truly understanding anatomy, physiology, exercise, science, nutrition, because I was a different person in a different place and so I just kind of fell a little bit from there. How did you go about finding that information like where did you go? So besides the interwebs and finding all the misinformation out there and kind of just getting my feet wet with a lot of broscience, I went into an exercise science program. So self-discovery, self-learning,

the internet and then went to school. Yeah, undergraduate exercise science, took about a year off in between some jobs and stuff, and then went into my master's program help promotion. Any time I meet somebody who served in the military for any length of period of time, it's always fascinating. I've never done, I didn't serve any of us have. And it's, it's different, all right?, yeah, okay, but it's different though, right?

I mean, you go in, it's totally different from regular civilian life. Yeah. How did it change you? How did it shape you? What were your challenges? What's it like? Man, in which way didn't it change me?

I, it's out. Did you know that going into it? Like, were you, because I almost win. I remember thinking like, and I remember what my buddy and I, we were debating in, it was like, I need this, I need direction in my life. Like, this is gonna help me find that. That's why I almost win. I remember things like, and I remember what my buddy and I were debating in. It was like, I need this. I need direction in my life. Like this is gonna help me find that.

That's why I almost, it was. I think a lot of people go that route. They're like, I'm lost. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And this gives me roof over my head, a paycheck, and sends me cool places over the world. So for me, which is kind of, I didn't really know what the hell I wanted to do

when I grew up. I had some idea of what I wanted to pursue and study in college. But I think the big thing that was kind of like the 51% leaning over the fence for me was this idea of legacy. And it was something that my dad did, my grandfather, my uncle. We go way, way back all the way to like Civil War and even, I think even to him the American Revolution.

Oh, wow. Yeah, we've got like, tuning's way, way back in like Arlington National Cemetery. Oh, wow. Yeah, we've got like, tuning's way, way back in like, Arlington National Cemetery. Oh, wow. Yeah, so that really appealed to me. And I was like, well, if that seems pretty cool right now versus not really knowing what I wanted to do in school, I was just like, I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to waste my money.

So yeah, I listed actually Christmas break of my senior year high school. And then about six months later, shipped off to basic training. And, yeah. Was it what you thought it would be? Yes. Again, I kind of had like an insight. So my dad was like, you know, he went to military school, he went to the army, and, you know, my decision to go in was never forced. It was never like, hey, this is what our family does. So you're gonna fucking do it. It was just kind of, hey, choose the best path for you. Whatever you do,

you know, we'll support. So, um, yeah, I kind of had an idea of what I was going into from the beginning, which I think gave me a leg up, especially in boot camp. My dad definitely was like training me before I went in, kind of thing, physically and mentally, but even still, even knowing what I wanted to do somewhat and even knowing what this world was going to kind of look like, it totally, totally transformed my life.

What point did it change? Did you change your mind that you weren't going to just continue to serve and actually move up the rankings in the army? Like what made you go like, okay, I'm good. It was kind of decided for me. So about four and a half years in, while we were talking earlier, I speak Russian, that was my job in the army. I signed up to go into the Intel field. That's a easy language. Oh, totally. It's the easiest thing single word. I get to teach you here. I want to be done with that.

Cool. Da. And so, you go through a series of tests and applications before you choose any job in the military. And somehow, I made it through this process. The hardest, the hardest test I've ever taken in my life is the thing's called the D-Lab, the defense language aptitude battery test. And it's literally like a two hour exam of just made up noises and characters

and just weird, weird, weird puzzles. And then based upon how you score there, if you even pass, they categorize you into a language. So for whatever reason. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so like if you're more of an auditory listener, they'll put you in whatever language or if you do really well with like puzzles

and looking at pictures, they'll give you like a character language, like Japanese or Chinese or something like that's fascinating that's brilliant yeah so your test said Russian my test said the sent them sent them to uh sent them to Russian you know the whole language academies in one place the DLI right here in Monoray so you know I used to live right down the road for me guys pretty much yeah and so I went in did that, and shit, what was it? I asked you, like, why, or at what point did you go, like, oh, I'm good, and you know what,

just keep moving up the ranks. I did, and I went in, I was like, hell, I'm 17. You can do 20 years, retire 37, pretty cool, and then go off to your next phase of life, whatever. So about four, four and a half years in, I was really enjoying the Russian thing, sort of kind of not really. And I wanted to kind of flex my soldier muscles a little bit.

We all go through the same training, a soldier's a soldier's a soldier, but you all have different jobs. And so I kind of want to take a break from the Russian stuff. I want to go see what it's like to every day, just live the soldier life and be the guy over there, as we call it. And so I volunteered, tried to volunteer for a couple deployments.

The first one didn't work out. It wasn't the right rank. So I did the work, did my studying with the promotion boards, made my way up the ranks. Actually, I wound up separating as an E6, a staff sergeant. I made E6 in just under five years and anyone listening to the military, doing that's really hard. And so I worked my ass off, because I really wanted to go. What is that in tail?

So basically in E6s, is you would be like a general manager. So basically you would be overseeing either your whole squad or whole platoon, depending upon what your unit looks like. So at a minimum, you'd be looking at about seven to 12 guys that you would be directly responsible for. Then if you're a platoon leader, you would directly be responsible for anywhere between

like 35 to maybe even six times. So you quickly get put into leadership roles, managerial roles. And so did that, started making my way up through the ranks and doing all the necessary steps so that I could go be this idea, this form of a soldier that I thought I wanted to be. And in that process, you have to go through like war game training. So we're out in the field for a few days and I wound up, I was leading my group against what we call the opposing force, the op-4, the fake enemy, so to speak, and just snap my shit up, man.

What did you do? So it wasn't even like anything heavy impact. I was just leading a group. I just moved too fast in the wrong direction, just all things wrong. And I wound up, I tore my hamstring, really, really injured, kind of just like really heavily twisted. I didn't break my back, but just my L4 and L5 just went the wrong way. And from there, just trying to go through the rehab too fast, trying to get put back on the duty roster too soon, wound up re-indering myself over and over, turned into bigger problems with my hips,

and so long as we're short, I wound up having to have both my hips completely reconstructed. So they yanked me entirely from that mission, that roster. I got put in a med-hold unit, and I was a patient. My last year and a half in the military, they would just cut me open. They reconstructed my femurs, shaved it down, put two pins in, sewed me back up, teach me how to walk again. I could walk, go back, do the other side. It's like a year and a half.

I was just a patient man. Holy shit, that sounds... That sounds... Extremely challenging. Oh, it sucked. It sucked. Talk about sewing. We need to press through that process.

Good question. No, I mean, not really, I mean, in a sense of kind of realizing that this idea of me serving for 20 years, That's a good question. No, I mean, not really, I mean, in a sense of kind of realizing that this idea of me serving for 20 years, me being soldier chase, was totally gone, totally out the window. But I guess because I didn't go into it, so die hard that this is what I want to do. And the only thing I want to do with my life,

it kind of made it easier to start to separate. So yeah, I went through that first process and then just a lot of rehab, a lot of downtime, and just began to kind of think about, okay, what's next? It's easy to, not easy, but it's easier to imagine and picture the physical challenges with doing that over the course of a year.

Obviously, the surgery, the pain, the rehab, all that stuff, what's harder, I think, for people to understand when someone goes through something like that, are the mental challenges that you go through. What was that like for you? So, like I was saying earlier, I always knew what it was like to just get up and go and be active. And that really, I think, kind of gave me a lot of mental wellness, clarity, whatever you want to call up, because the mind feeds the body, and the body feeds the mind, I think, kind of gave me a lot of mental wellness, clarity, whatever you want to call up, because the mind feeds the body, and the body feeds the mind, I think, and so in that sense,

my mind wouldn't able to do anything, because my body couldn't do anything. And so it kind of sounds kind of cliché, but I kind of just always had a really good attitude about it. I mean, I think I immediately knew what's different. It built your character, it sounds like. Yeah, very much so. You weren't someone who folded over it, or depressed about it, I mean, I think I immediately knew what your character. It sounds like. Yeah, very much so. You weren't someone who folded over it or you know, depressed

about it. You fucking rise. Yeah, what kept you strong? I had to be. Well, leadership, your leadership role, right? I mean, yeah, to me, I want to know that I love hearing somebody who's was in a leadership role at that young of an age. What are some of the things that you learn going through that process? Because that's got to be challenging in your teen late teens early 20s? Yeah, I was like 20 21 of this time leading people right? Yeah, it's weird. You're like you're a kid

You're literally a kid and you're in charge of other people's lives, right? Maybe not directly, but you know, hey if we don't Probably do this mission or probably train you know This could affect the lives of other people down range or what we do now You could fuck up later and it's gonna cost your life life or possibly even worse, so on to the left and right of you. So I think already having that instilled in me that it wasn't about me knowing that this isn't just my mission to just abandon, you know, being a soldier or having this

job or whatever, because they do such an amazing job of getting rid of the eye and incorporating the we, you know, they ditch the ego right out of the door, right? The first day of basic training. So I already kind of knew that I had this bigger mission to serve and it wasn't about me. And at that time, this kind of ties into, with the whole ever-forward thing, I had just lost my dad.

And so I was just really driven from the familial aspect of not wanting to, not want to let my family down I wanted to continue continue to serve. I wanted to because it was such a big thing to him He was just while you were going through rehab and stuff that you followed. Yeah, he passed away in 05 my first surgery was like mid Late 07 So so it's like boom boom one thing after another. another. Yeah, big life change, big life change. And so I've always been kind of driven by the greater good,

the bigger mission. And so I think that, you know, in a way, really helped. And so it might have been easier for me just to say, screw it and walk away if I didn't really have his legacy, his honor that I wanted to kind of continue down the line if I didn't have, you know, if I wasn't the oldest brother, if I wasn't all these things that I thought was supposed to be, I mean, who knows, am I to totally change my outlook on it? And that's where the name Everford came from, was it through these experiences?

Yeah, Everford, so that was really where I first began to kind of learn what it was like to live, you know, what we say, you know, live a life ever forward. And it was something actually that started in the military. My dad, he was an army, like I said, his first unit, like every unit you go to, we all have a creed, a saying. And his first unit was ever forward. And so he picked it up from his time in the army.

He carried it on. Yeah, exactly. So he brought it home with him literally. And he instilled in us growing up. And we just kind of just heard our dad say this thing, growing up, they don't really pay much attention to it. But once he got sick, he was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease ALS, literally about two, if not three weeks after I left for boot camp.

So, I started my whole life transition, and my life transitioned in a whole other way back home. And so, I actually wanted to get out. I dropped paperwork. You can, if you can prove you have a family hardship in the military, that your presence is needed more at home, they'll cut your contract, they'll let you go. And I actually started to do that. But then once my dad found out, he was like, hell no.

He flew out to California, I was stationed in Monterey at the time while he could still move and still talk and spent literally four days with me on base in hotels, just literally telling me why I should not stop against him, teaching me and showing what it was like to live a life ever forward, what it really, really meant. And so I think those four days, that conversation to really kind of go back to your question was just, what I kept latching onto of why I wanted to keep pushing forward and why I didn't want to just stay on the couch

and just say, if my life, and just let these injuries and let the set back get the better at me. He sounded like a pretty awesome guy. My dad, he was the coolest man. He was my best friend, he was my mentor. Before I even knew what it was, he was my sergeant. He was the guy that I went to for answers and gave me questions and answers when both were needed. and I would, I still speak the highest of them and he just literally instilled in

me and my whole family what we should be and what honor and integrity and selfless service and all these things that I picked up in the military for sure that kind of really sharpened that skill set but they'd all started with him. Any mistakes like that you remember being in leadership role at that young of an age? You remember like, fuck, I should have done that. I think one of the biggest mistakes being out now, and especially in the military, that leaders make,

even just being a manager, I don't think you're necessarily a leader, but just thinking that you're a leader. So I'm in this leadership position, so therefore what I say is right. And so many times, man, I was wrong. So many times, I would see that so many times with other people that maybe we're the same rank or above me and we would call it,

they just hide behind the rank. And everyone walks around with their rank on their chest and I could just look at people and know that you don't fucking deserve to wear that. You are literally just, you're just because you maybe joined six months ahead of me or went to the promotion board a month ahead of me. You have this rank, but you don't deserve it. You're just in this position. You're not telling me how to be a better person, how

to be a better soldier. You're just telling me because you can tell me. How common is it? I know in real life, that's very common. We talk about this. I used to talk about this all the time with other managers and peers that I worked with. It's like very small percentage, I believe, really should be in the time with other managers and peers that I worked with. It's just like very small percentage. I believe really should be in that leadership role. Is it like that with even when you serve too? Is it? Absolutely.

I will say that I think that I was blessed and fortunate enough to have some amazing leaders, some guys that for all intents and purposes probably crossed the boundary of what we call fraternization. You know, hey, you're really high up. I'm not quite there, so we shouldn't be having this conversation kind of thing. But, you know, I think the guys who recognize that there's a connection, there's a way to instill something of worth in another person, they'll, you know, I'll never forget to have this one first sergeant. First sergeant's like

the top basically, you know, I was at E6 there in the E7 acting sometimes can mean E8. So like years and ranks in between us. And this guy every time he would just like, I want to call bullshit or even cut the bullshit, he would just rip off his rank off his uniform, throw it down on the desk and be like, you're a human being, I'm a human being. Here's where I'm messing up, here's where you're messing up and just, you know, shoot it to your roll, man. Yeah, that's for sure. That seems so uncommon, right? Especially in that environment.

It is. Yeah, because you earned those ranks, right? Exactly. Now it's like I'm in this authoritative position. So I mean, was that that was uncommon then, right? So uncommon, yeah. So uncommon, because I think a lot of people will take a lot of pride in the fact that, you know,

there are certain rank, which in some instances, you deserve it, yeah, you worked your ass out for it. Like fact that, you know, there are certain rank which in some instances You deserve it. Yeah, you worked your ass out for it. Like I said, you know I made e6 in less than five years and that's really hard to do So a lot of times people do get caught up in your accomplishments Hmm, and not really what that means like it's not you don't have an extra chevron or an extra Shiny thing on your chest that just means you're better than everybody like this is a great power This also has a great responsibility Leadership is is is an earned once always earned means you're better than everybody. This is a great power. This also has a great responsibility.

Leadership is an earned one. It's always earned. You're not gonna get people to follow you if you stop leading. It's just the way it is. I think people forget that. I've worked for managers like that where they maybe at one point,

we're doing great things as leaders and then they just stopped. And they lose respect of the people underneath them. And when you lose their respect, you no longer effective as a leader. What is your, with your podcast, with what you're doing now, what is your larger purpose?

What's driving you behind all this? I mean, obviously, to live a life ever forward has, for lack of a better term, kind of become like a catchphrase. It went from just ever forward, you know, and now that I have to put it into words in a podcast, it's not just, you know, a cool t-shirt or whatever, but it has turned into an act, has turned into a service.

And so I think being able to just talk about it is one thing, but then also to be able to live it and, you know, push forward with my dreams and aspirations and share those and also share the setbacks and the failures and the rough spots and just having that brutal honesty. That's what ever Ford's all about. And my brother does it with the apparel line

so that people can literally walk around and share it. And then with the podcast and the coaching, it's all in come to seeing. So we have different avenues of this business and this brand, but it all comes under the same umbrella, the same two words. Let's talk about what that's like to start a podcast and build a business like you are right now.

I mean, you're fresh in it right now. And we have a lot of people that are listening that actually either one want to start a podcast or I want to build a coaching business. What are some of the things that you've learned in this past year? The more you know, the more you don't know. I mean, you never stop learning. And the second you think you've mastered something, you're wrong. Just

stop, take a step back and figure out where your ego is getting in the way. It's just, also, I mean, delegation, huge for sure. I mean, I think any entrepreneur listening right now, you guys, I'm sure it can relate, is you want to just make sure everything succeeds so quickly and so well that you just try to be involved with everything. You try. Wouldn't you say that's one of the hardest things for a lot of leadership type personalities to deal with?

You're such a giving things up. Exactly. There's a difference, I think, in giving things up and, you know, entrusting things with other people. Absolutely. But, you know, it's hard, we don't always recognize that. It always just initially seems like, I gotta give this up, but like, I'm not gonna know this is done right,

but, you know, that's where trusting and having the right people surrounding you and part of that journey, I think, can be even better because they're gonna have an insight and objective perspective that you probably don't have. So, yeah, I mean, definitely, you're not always the smartest person in the room. Just always remember that for sure.

What's, who are you talking to when you're doing your podcast? In other words, are you thinking yourself like this is, you know, like sometimes when I'm talking on the podcast, I'm thinking of young kid who's, you know, just getting into fitness, you know, kind of like I was, who's got the wrong information who maybe have, you know, insecurities about their bodies, and I'm trying to talk to that person, or sometimes I feel like I'm talking to, you know, the soccer mom who's super stressed out

and, you know, just wants to feel better, or are there, is there someone in particular or a group of people in particular you feel like you're talking to? Yes, sometimes I talk to soccer moms and then my wife yells at me, but that's usually just my little sister. I hate you. Yeah, but... Talking to you. I think I'm probably talking to my former self because... Who is that? Yeah, that's a good question.

Someone who's a little bit lost, but a little bit of things around the right path, you bit thinks they're on the right path. They're pursuing something that either they think they should be doing, but also partially is something they want to be doing. But you're not quite sure. You're not quite sipping the Kool-Aid whole heartily. But you know that going down this direction is better than taking no direction. Taking A step is better than taking no direction. Taking A step is better than taking no step.

Particularly with my story and my podcast, we're in the fitness and nutrition and self-help and health categories. I have to always keep that in mind. I always think it comes back to your health. To me, that means a lot of different things. Me talking to myself, imagining me as my own avatar kind of thing, is that this is someone who recognizes that I need to be taking care of myself.

And that means physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, all they above. And I can say that wholeheartedly now. Back then, I was just like, I need to go to gym, I need to lift the weights, I need to look cool, right? And so, my efforts are to bring about all of these nutrition and fitness and mindset, guests and topics so that my former self and anyone else listening right now can pick up on what's intriguing and appealing to them right now, but also kind of something kind of shiny or intriguing can lure them into another aspect that maybe they're neglecting What and I neglected a lot of areas in my life

Former self avatar. Sure. What's one of the most impactful things you've learned as far as what you were doing Fitness-wise versus then now what you're expressing like something that you could have changed and told yourself going through that process That it's okay to do what you want not because everyone else is doing it. I think when I first started really get into what we all consider now, the fitness industry is just like you just go to gym, lift weights, get jacked, get shredded, whatever because it's cool and hot and sexy. But I mean, everybody is different, literally everybody. And so I think, Sal, it's used as a right, your body is always gonna be your best coach. I think I picked up that recently.

People need to remember that. And so find a cool program that you like or find a good gym buddy, or find a good gym, or find an open space in your basement, whatever. And just listen to your body, try stuff out. If your body likes lifting weights, cool, if your body likes doing body weight stuff,

if your body likes taking a walk with your dog, your family, if your body likes doing meditation, whatever, your body will tell you what it likes, what it doesn't like, what it needs, and what it doesn't. It's so hard to listen. People don't know how to listen to their body. Yeah. How long did it take you to learn to do that?

10, 12 years. Yeah, at least a decade. Yeah. I feel like the military almost teaches you probably not to though, right? Don't they teach you power through? Yeah. Hell yeah.

Like the opposite. Exactly. You know, it teaches you, hey show up, be on time, being the right uniform, and run like hell. Yeah. Mental discipline. Exactly, yeah.

Yeah. Exactly, you know, drive on. The mission is priority. And, you know, that takes priority. You have to accomplish that. And in order to accomplish that mission, your body has to be in the most incredible shape possible. You have to have peak performance, high endurance.

You just have to be able to throw your rock on, carry a body, fire your weapon, whatever. So it's definitely, I would say definitely mindset and physical performance, yeah, for sure. There's definitely some merit and benefit to being able to sometimes, I hate to say it, not listen to your body or push yourself to limits that you did not think were possible and I think, you know, that new standards. Military training, I mean, they're excellent at this.

I mean, they have to be obviously. The goal is to turn people into effective soldiers, and effective at their job. And it could be what determines whether or not you live or die. In a particular situation, if you're in freezing cold temperature, wet, starving, and you've got the enemy coming after you, you don't want to listen to your body because your body's telling you to, you know, hey, go get some food, relax, or give up, and you can't, enemy coming after you. You don't want to listen to your body, because your body's telling you to,

you know, hey, go get some food, relax, or give up, and you can't, you gotta keep so. That must be a conflicting message for you in your brain, right? Because you've been trained that way for so long, but then you also... Or do they work together? I think, you know, honestly,

I would probably have to separate the two. I mean, if I'm in that environment, when I was soldier Chase, versus when I'm just chase chase now, you have to kind of have that switch in the military. You have to prioritize mission, mission, mission, and just tell your body, know sometimes. But now it definitely took a while to learn that separation, to learn when, yeah, I can push myself forward, I can push myself more because it's just my fear or the uncompabilness of it that is kind of holding me back, not the actual lack of ability or technical

skill to do whatever it is. That's a tough one to learn. Yeah, yeah. And so I think anyone listening in the military, yeah, that for sure, you know, takes precedent sometimes and sometimes is it is a wrong, yeah, you know, and that's definitely how I wound up re-injuring myself and getting myself pulled off that roster, cutting myself open, and kind of set me down to different paths. This is a great topic because I think a lot of times people can look at, or we tend to,

look at situations and decide, that was a good thing, that was a bad thing. And on the surface, your injury, your re-injury, the rehab process, sounds terrible. However, you wouldn't be doing what you're doing, or you wouldn't be this person now. Do you view it as a gift, or does it seem like? Man, have you guys been stalking me?

No. It's, maybe. Definitely online. Just soccer momsing me? No. It's, maybe. Definitely online. Just soccer moms, right? Yeah. It's really funny. And again, this just goes to show that, I don't know if I would quite say, I believe,

everything happens for a reason. Everything happens and it's up to us to put reason to it, to really learn from. Great way to put it. I would love to say credit for that. I think either my coach or someone I just talked to recently mentioned that to me. I think I said it first. Action on that. I think either my coach or someone I just talked to recently mentioned that to me. I think I said it first.

Action on it. I think it back. If we get that in the end of our podcast. Chase Tuning, copyright to less than 70. That's one of the biggest things that I've been going through lately. And I think there's been this next evolution in myself that has definitely transferred into the next evolution

of whatever forward is, as a brand, as a business, as a podcast, as you know, whatever, and that it is finding the most painful, difficult gifts in every situation. I'm doing a vlogmas series right now. Have you guys ever heard of vlogmas? You basically 25 days of Christmas leading up, you do a video every day for YouTube. And Vlogmas? Vlogmas, yeah. And I thoroughly regret it.

It's so painstaking. You're like, and you are committed. Sounds, sounds, sounds awesome. It's, no, it's so funny. Do you have a song for it? Vlogmas. No, you should, can you run me on real quick?

Yeah, I'm a hard-working guy. I'm a hard-working guy. But one of the videos that put up the other day was, I was just like, looking for us at me. What am I gonna talk about? And so it's in my car, like I always am,. I don't work on it. But one of the videos that put up the other day was I was just like looking for us at me. What am I gonna talk about? And so it was in my car, like I always am, because I'm always fucking traveling somewhere. And I keep my dad's dog tags hanging from the river near.

And I was like boom, there I go. So one of the biggest things that I've kept hidden from myself and my audience is that I'm not this just like always happy go lucky Optimistic guy who just so easy to say live a life ever forward because My dad got blessed as all gave us this cool phrase that we've turned into a cool thing, you know I I've shared with maybe about two other people my entire life the dark origin of what ever Ford means to me. And honestly, really going back to my dad was visiting

for four days, you know, what also kind of saved my life. The gift that I learned was that my dad had to die. My dad had to teach us this lesson. My dad had to share with us this value, this honor, this legacy of what we can do now, and it wouldn't have happened any other way. And his passing, I wish it of course didn't happen in a less painful way, but the gift that I got out of that was this lesson learned of giving my life meaning. And what it's like to live it, walk it, talk it, breathe it and share it with others.

And so what I talked about in this video was that, you know, the reason why I was in that place, while I was in that training incident where I wound up getting injured that has set me down this path now, is because I volunteered, I was trying to volunteer to be deployed because I did not want to come back alive.

I wanted to die the honorable death. I wanted to be what I thought was this honor, soldier, glory, and the battlefield kind of thing because I just lost my dad. I just lost my best friend. God, when did you recognize that? Wow. I knew what I was doing. I would say like in the back of my head, I was kind of like,

like this dark passenger, you know, I was kind of like this dark passenger, you know, dexter shout out. This dark passenger kind of just like, showing me this alluring easy way out that, you know, hey Chase, like your life sucks right now, seemingly, you're going through a lot of hard shit right now. This would be an easy way out. And then at the time, like the military just upped our life

insurance plan from 200 to $400,000. I was like, wow, if I didn't come back, you know, my family would be taking care of financially. And so I saw this easy way out of all my problems. And that was why I really wholeheartedly now looking back decided to pursue that option. And it wasn't meant to be, I, you know, try twice. The first time I apparently wasn't listening. The second time, I had to snap my shit up. So to learn that lesson and to be yanked from that path. But I made this video about talking about that.

And what it was like to really battle the idea of your own mortality and looking at life or death. And I'm not someone who I would never take my own life. That's just not who I am. But I recognize that I didn't really care. Well in a sense you kind of almost did. Yeah, right. So yeah, I mean you weren't maybe you weren't thinking I was going to pull the trigger myself but I mean you were putting you were trying to put yourself in harm's way.

If someone else did it wouldn't have bothered me. Right, right. Yeah, so I thought I was doing the right thing at the same time taking the easy way out from all this pain and suffering that was going through that I was doing the right thing at the same time taking the easy way out from all this pain and suffering That was going through that I was just too afraid to just take on and what I'm looking at now is looking at that gift Looking at all the pain in the suffering Mentally emotionally physically that I had to go through in those couple years of losing my dad being apart from my family Being a patient for a year and a half, learning

how to walk again twice and having my entire life plan pretty much scrubbed and having to start over. And it took 10 years before I could ever talk about my dad or being a hospital or hell, even watch an episode of like, Grey's Anatomy without completely breaking down. I always make this joke, I just never joke about mental health, but I'm the only guy, one of the only guys that I know that went through six years of active duty to walk out with PTSD and a mild TBI while never actually being downrange. You know, I have diagnosed mild PTSD from the horrific scenes and things that I went through

with my dad and I went through years of, on and off, years of therapy and working with someone. And then in my own, in the gym, working out those physical demons to just try to run away. And wound up being on narcotic pain medication for months and months and months because of my surgeries,

wound up giving myself a concussion because I was loopy as hell, fell over, knocked my head out, knocked myself unconscious, gave myself a mild TBI, and all these things set me down the path that I'm on now. And it took me 10, 10 years to really look at this as a gift to know that, hey, Chase, if you didn't go through all this shit, you wouldn't understand what you're talking about now.

I could just have a cool phrase ever forward and seem like this guy's got a shit together, but you know, now I recognize that it was because of those dark times, it's because of getting comfortable with the uncomfortable that I can speak it, live it. Let's talk about some of those monsters, because you just namemaback you up. You just named something that I dealt with before,

and in my opinion it was one of the hardest things I ever dealt with, which was, I got addicted to pain killers when I went through my ACLM, so did you actually get addicted to the pills? At the time, I didn't recognize it was in addiction, we're looking back 100%. Yeah, right, right. So what was that, tell me about that whole process,

and then coming off, because that's a motherfucker. Dude, so unreal, I can 100% clearly understand where people talk about, oh, I had no idea. I'm not an addict, but I just need another pill. It's so easy, especially when you can legitimize it in your own head as far as I'm on the surgery, right? Absolutely. And after my second surgery, I semi-reinjured my hip.

I moved too quickly, like two weeks after the surgery and sent myself back to the hospital. So I was on like pill form morphine. I was on every narcotic, every pain med. Was the highest you got up to? I wasn't delighted like hug your morphine daily. Multiple times a day for about up to about three, four months. Now did you scale up that? Did you start with vikin' in or so much?

Or percusseds and then you that? It was all the gateway. Talk about that, people don't. People don't like a, I remember. It's so much more common than it is. It is. It's very common. It's the elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about because it's prescribed all over the world. It's widely accepted because we have a danger candy. Right. So talk to me about what that was like, how you started to scale

up because I went from somebody having this kind, I'll give you the short version of my story is, you know, Torre May, SL, MCL, Dr. Prescribes me, Norcos, I start taking them on the pill bottle, it says take every four hours, so I'm taking about four or five in a day, and I'm telling the doctor, like I'm still in lots of pain, they're like, well, you need to stay ahead of the pain,

so take it every three hours, so, so now I'm up to like seven of these things, and then I decided when I was through the energy, injury and I rehab myself six months later, I just would stop and I went through this with draws. I didn't even know it was with draws until what I happened was I started, I got all the side effects, right, snivils, shakes,

caught hot, cold sweat. Do you want my tears? Yeah, yeah. Real bad, real bad, right? And I just thought all of a sudden, when. All that shit. Real bad, right? And I just thought all of a sudden, that day, I'll remember forget that day, I thought that all of a sudden I got the flu really bad.

And I remember, you know, toughing it out the first night and just feeling miserable the next day. And then I was like, fuck, I just need to sleep. And I still had some of the Norcos in my cabinet. I take one and whoa, I felt amazing. I felt like I could go out and go lift and I was at the courtyard of all this.

And at that moment, I went holy fuck. Like my body has become dependent on this opiate. And that's when I started diving in, research and that. So what was that like for you? It was a slippery slope. And it was, again, I never really thought anything of it because I wasn't just taking them for fun, right?

I had like, hey, I have the surgery. The doctor, the approving authority is telling me this is what I need to do, part of my recovery process and so I was like, okay, I'll do it. And yeah, there was a lot of pain for sure. And then these little happy pills may get all better, right?

And then like you said, you know, every couple hours turns into, well, I need it sooner. And again, my doctor says it's okay, so therefore it must be okay. And so, just started recognizing that I'm having to take more and more to get the same effect. And you guys all know, and anyone listening to his studies, exercise signs and stuff,

your body will begin to down regulate these receptors for pain because you're flooding in with all these other things that are doing its job for it and the body Just wants to stay efficient, you know, it's a lazy piece of shit I think but the most efficient lazy piece of shit, but it's just it's so easy and so You start taking more and you start feeling better for a while and then it slips up and so then you Don't want to feel the pain again. So it's just one thing feeds another. And so literally for about three, four months, I just started with Perkiset and Vikodin and Hydromorphone, fentanyl patches.

Like, you even gave out literal candy, like these happy pills, it was fentanyl pops, like suckers that were these things. God, that's creepy. Yeah. Let's fucked up. Yeah, because like so many people have like, oh, I can't take a pill or. Here's a lollipop. Exactly.

Yeah. And so it became easy. And so therefore, you know, who wants to do the hard work when it comes to pain management, right? Right. And then, but I tell you, man, after that incident where I was like, I'm feeling a little bit more extra pain, like you said. And I want to go take some more pills,

but I'm totally useless, so I need to go lie down. I wanted to, I took the pills, I'll never figure this day. I took a couple extra of the medication. I started getting loopy. I don't really remember going to bed, but I remember waking up with my girlfriend at the time, hovering over top of me. I was like, prison in my own body.

I wanted to look at it at a seizure. Grandmaw, I think it is where. I was like prisoner in my own body. I wanted to look at a seizure. Grand Mall, I think it is where. I was like semi-conscious, but I couldn't move my body. I was inhaling, but I wasn't exhaling. My chest was just concaving. I couldn't move. I was like rigid tense, freezing up. What did I-

Terrifying. Absolutely. Like cold, I was drenched. I swore to guy, I thought someone dumped a bucket of water on me. What had happened was the medication kicked in, I didn't quite make it to bed apparently, I wound up hitting falling down,

completely knocking myself unconscious, pretty bad head wound off the corner of the table, gave myself the mild TBI I was talking about, really back in cushion, mixed on top of probably three doses already that time, pain meds, not a good place to be. So the seizure induced, I wound up next thing and I woke up, I was in the ER and they're like, yeah,

this is what happens when you're on three to four months of pain medication. Wow, shit. Now how was it like coming off of all that? I mean, did it for you, were you injury? We have or were you in the hospital? Like, what did you have to do? So I was in the hospital, I think, barely 24 hours,

they kind of, you don't monitor to me, gave me some more pain meds. Of course, they had to check my hips up because of fall. I was like two, three weeks after surgery, could have messed up, you know, the pins and stuff. So I got clear, they sent me home, and they began to immediately downregulate in my medication.

So I recognize, and again, I think this is where I think I have a strong suit and recognizing where like, Chase, this is good versus Chase, you need to stop doing this kind of thing. Like I have pretty good awareness. I feel like I've always had a good sense of that. So I just had to suck it up. Man, I had to embrace the suck like I always say what the military always tells us just embrace the suck and drive on. So they downregulated my pain meds and I just had to deal with it a little bit more. Because I was like, I don't want to wind it back in the hospital. Anytime you have a seizure, they were broke. Your license, I went a few months out being able to drive.

And it's just, it's up, but I just realized that the pain now is better than what could happen if I go back to previous habits. So you remember how long it took you to completely wing off and be fine? I was on some form of pain pill. I would say for about six to eight months, whether it was just like tram at all or like super high level horse pill, Tylenol or Advil or whatever, for a long time. And then I even started venturing out,

and this is where I really started learning more about the human body and stuff and put me on the pathway. I was looking at acupuncture and dry needling and prolo therapy, which is something I never heard of, which honestly sucked even more than I think. What is that? I've heard of that before. So prolo therapy is, I imagine a connolly dry kneeling,

where basically they numb up the area of pain around. So you just get a shit ton of the little beasting pricks to numb it. And then they take a really, really long needle, really thin. And basically the point is, hey, you're joints, you're muscles, you're attendance,

everything, you have severe inflammation, long-term pain, because your body's not recognizing this pain receptor or for whatever reason, it's missing this inflammation marker. So we're gonna go on, we're just gonna do the inflammation. Exactly.

So they would just like, literally like, there's like a liposuction. It sounds fun. Yeah, they would literally just go in this needle and just like, just go to town. It's similar to dry knee to knee. Yeah, but at the same time, they would inject this semi-sailing solution stuff to-

Now is this Western medicine approach or is this an Eastern medicine? This wasn't MD that administered it, but he only practiced Eastern medicine if that made sense. So they're stimulating an immune response or a response to heal the body? That was the goal and I will say- It didn't work. I gave it like two or three tries. I could recognize the benefit from it, but the process wasn't worth it. Not at all, not at all.

Max, I would just like bend over, and drop you out. Not before doing it. No, hell no. So I was like, you know what, again, I'll just embrace this talk. I'll deal with it. Yeah, wow.

I appreciate you being able to talk about all these difficult things because there's a lot of people out there who are going through similar issues and it's tough to talk about. It's very difficult to talk about. Let alone talk about on a podcast. Talk a little bit about the PTSD that you experience

because I think it's kind of like a buzz term now, right? People hear about all the time, but I feel like I almost went through a little bit after I had somebody who I lost very close to me who I watched them deteriorate from cancer and I identified some symptoms after that I think were probably PTSD of some sort. What was that like for you? The After Effects always amazing, isn't it? hindsight being 2020.

Nobody will fool you better than you will. That's the thing, when you're in something, you're so in it, you don't see it. You close in yourself, right? This is where, for me at least, this is where I find value, it's very difficult, very difficult, but this is where I find value in people around me that I trust. Like I trust, there's people around me

that I trust so much that they can tell me, you know, Hey, Sal, you're something's off. You're acting like an asshole or whatever. And even though I wholeheartedly disagree that I trust them so much that I'll say, okay, I'm wrong. They're right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wrong and they're right I don't see it right now, but I trust this person When you were in it, did anybody help you with that? Or how did you identify it? So when I was in it, it was a little bit more obvious because it was literally happening. I was around friends, around family, and it kind of made sense, you know,

like it's the immediate grieving process. So of course, people are gonna be emotional or whatever, but I had to quickly suppress it. And this is one of the things I talked about why I think people, the immediate first inkling that you have about in my questioning mortality, am I just suppressing feelings. If you think you need mental help, go see a mental health therapist immediately. Don't wait 10 years like I did. I had to go back to the military.

So I had to immediately suppress those feelings and emotions. Could I have sought help sooner? Sure, yeah. I mean, they have therapists, they have doctors to help us out. And I did see them for a short period, but I went back to having to be a soldier. I went back to not having to let my emotions

and feelings sacrifice the integrity of this mission or my job or leading others. Oh, you're a master. Exactly, yeah. I had to mask it. Yeah, shout out Lewis House. But so for the next six years, I use the excuse, I did use the excuse of,

I don't have time to deal with this right now. And so it would pop up, it's ugly head from time to time, like I said. What would it look like when it would pop up? So the biggest trigger for me was just seeing anyone in a hospital, like particularly in a hospital bed, because how my father's illness progressed so quickly every time I would come back home, which I would try to take three day four day weekends every month or so, every time I came back he was worse and

worse and worse. And his last three months of his life, he was in a hospital bed. And so, you know, the body likes to kind of just suppress things. And so, anytime I would think of my dad, I had a hard time kind of just going back to that spot. But when I saw it, it immediately took me back. I would see a movie, a TV show. I couldn't even walk into a hospital because I would break down.

I would freeze up and seeing that, it immediately took me back to the day that he passed away. I luckily, I was able to get some emergency leave and I was home, my father's last 30 days. And I was with him, his last almost 48 hours, he was alive. But then walking into the room and seeing your hero, your best friend, seeing this person that you literally watched die,

which is will or away day after day, month after month, I would immediately come flooding back and I would just become terrified, I would become emotionally unstable. I would just laugh, cry, free, shake, have anxiety in tax, and I would just completely lose track of where I was and so people would have to snap me out of it or even sometimes when I was driving if I would hear somebody

talk about a similar story I would have to pull over because I just became unsafe behind the wheel and it would just immediate flashbacks you know and you know PTSD I don't have an exact definition but it's like when something triggers a previous experience, it's not just that current experience that you process. It's the old one. Exactly. You're back there. You're back in the shit. And so that's what it was. And so it wasn't just like recognizing this bad illness that someone else may be going through, but it was me every time walking back in and seeing my father, seeing my family around him crying, seeing just this person that I grew up with for 19, 20 years just be completely unrecognizable.

ALS, you atrophy everywhere. The mind stays sharp. It doesn't affect the mind at all, which is think why it's so cruel. You're a prisoner of your own body. How many people do you think suffer from some sort of a PTSD and it just expresses itself differently in different people? Do you think there's a lot more than people realize? I think a lot more than people realize, yeah, because if you're not able to separate this bad experience that's going on right now from what you went through, then I think that's PTSD popping up a little bit, you know, in any mild way, shape or form. that's PTSD popping up a little bit, in any mild way, shape or form. If what is happening is not what is happening,

it's you reliving it, and not really being able to fully process that, and honestly, even consciously separate yourself, get yourself out of that. What makes it more difficult is the fear of the experience, not more so than the experience itself. I'm so afraid of feeling that again, or I'm so afraid of, that again or I'm so afraid of

That's why I said I would avoid hospitals. Yeah, I wouldn't watch TV show I wouldn't like scrubs like yeah, you know That's a little bit funnier sometimes. So I you know house Gray's in that. I'm like any movie I would go to a movie and if there was like a hospital scene I would have to get up and leave they're doing are you looking at some of the research that they're doing with PTSD and Yeah, yeah, Silas, Sybin and MDMA and some of these other fun things? No, but I can kind of maybe understand whether trying to like induce that same experience

to better walk you through it or like what's the sign? So it's pretty fast and having actually there, so obviously these are schedule one or two drugs, highly illegal, but the people who are actually putting the funding behind a lot of these studies believe it or not is the military because we've now had some long running occupations wars, and so we're getting a lot of soldiers coming back with PTSD. And so they're actually investing money in figuring out better ways of doing therapy with some

of these individuals. And they're finding that, like MDMA, which is the popular drug in, you know, Exocere, Molle or whatever, or... Okay. Savo Sibin, which is magic mushrooms. They're finding that, you know, one or two sessions with those substances

is equivalent to years worth of therapy. Really? Yeah, absolutely. I actually, um, maps, which I know that's our fitness program, but there's actually an organization called Maps that studies this called the, or that it's an organization around the study of these substances called the multi-disciplinary association of psychedelic studies. And it's all scientific. It's all science-based. And they're finding remarkable results. I'm very much into that, into learning about that because I think it's absolutely fascinating. I think there's a future in therapy, but my best interpretation of what they're studying or they're finding is that

under the influence of certain substances, it gives you the empathy. It puts you in a state where you're so empathetic to your own situation that you lose the fear of going into Not that you not that it doesn't hurt. Yeah, right? Because here's the thing like When you have a something traumatic happen to you whether it's a long something happens over a long course of you know Long period of time or happens, you know one instant when something traumatic happens to you your mind and your body remembers that feeling and you become so afraid of

Both that thing happening again, but more so the feeling of what how you felt when that thing happened you become so afraid of it that you It's another layer on top of whatever happened and it imprints it almost imprints in your body in your mind and What prevents us from processing that is the fear of it And so I think what these substances do is they make they give people enough empathy or at least they create this feeling of empathy Where they okay? I'm gonna go into this I can talk about this. It's I'm not so afraid to process this at the moment Because I feel different than I normally do. So let me talk about this thing and then they process it

and they truly process it versus, if you ever go to therapy for a traumatic experience, it can take years before you even talk about the experience. People say, well, why is therapy takes so long? Well, it took me three years just to talk about the time I was abused. Like, I couldn't even talk about it for three years. So, fascinating.

Expresses itself in different ways, too. Yes, that's what's tough about it. I think there's not like this common, like, oh, you have PTSD, so you notice these symptoms. It's like you could be suffering from something totally different. I dealt with it as a eight year old, seven to eight years old,

after my dad committed suicide, and we had no idea. And I didn't even know what it was. I all said that seven years old, I began shitting my pants. I don't know where. I mean, potty training my whole life, never fucking had any problem with that.

All of a sudden, I would not go to the bathroom and I would hold it. And I remember getting the shit beat out of me for shitting my pants and being potty trained by my mom. You didn't want to do this? Fuck no. No. You're old enough to know.

You know, embarrassing as you're streaming embarrassing and then being a kid who's going over to a friend's house it would happen and I tried to hide my underwear and doing all that. Meanwhile, you know, I'm an eight year old kid, seven, eight year old kid. And it's just adding another layer on it. Yeah, I'm not processing it.

Even my mom's not processing it. She's fucking screaming at me yelling at me because what are you doing? You know, she's got enough to wait. Right, right, right. So, you know, you don't, you don't realize, it wasn't until years of therapy and stuff later on that coming out, they actually attribute that

to my dad's death and each one of the siblings and people did it handled it in different ways. So, that's the scary part is you don't, sometimes people don't even realize. So, the way I look at it with these situations, at least, and for me is, me, is obviously we're in the field that we communicate, right? That's what podcasts do.

We're commuting into people. And I feel like going through these things as difficult as they are and as challenges they are. And like we said, we look back and look at them as gifts. It gives us, at least for me, it makes me more empathetic. So now I can, I'll sit down and listen and feel what someone may be feeling when they're trying to communicate something,

which makes me far more effective as a communicator myself, far more effective at my job. Do you find that? That right there, I'm just gonna say that, I definitely find that, and what you're talking about, I think, is what should be to the very core of what an effective coach is. Whether you're a personal trainer, a coach, a health coach, a life coach, whatever, it's

becoming empathetic and recognizing that a lot of times what people are talking about is not really what they're talking about. And the fact that, like you just said, we go to therapy sometimes and don't ever talk about or not for a long time, talk about what you really need to be talking about. And it's because of the fear. I mean, who wants to just be afraid all the time? Who wants to just stay uncomfortable? But it's only in that fear. It's only in getting comfortable with the uncomfortable. Are you ever going to progress? Are you ever going to truly what I believe get to the core of why you're there with the uncomfortable, are you ever gonna progress? Are you ever gonna truly what I believe get to the core of why you're there with the therapist,

why you're there with a personal trainer, why you're there with a coach, you have to get through that shit. I, so I just, a couple of years ago, went through a divorce, right, it was my, for 15 years, and I have two children, very difficult time. And something that helped me was a quote or a phrase that I've heard several times before

but I never understood it and it's, it goes like this, the only way out is through. Right, and I've heard that before, didn't make any sense. The obstacle is the way. And I thought to myself, and so what I did is I actually pictured, I actually envisioned what my challenges were

and it looked like hell, like I'm standing in front of fire in lava and just hell and I can't get to the other side except walk through it. There is no other path. I can't go above it, I can't go around it. I have to literally walk through hell but if I don't walk through hell, I'm gonna be standing in front of it for the rest of my life

and so you just gotta find the courage to walk through that. Embrace the suck. Embrace the suck. Embrace the suck. And it's so fucking true and it sucks. It sucks because you gotta go through it. And of course if there was a way we couldn't. But then again, again, would you be who you are?

And it's funny because we're all, we work in fitness and I know you work in self-improvement and in fitness. That's you work in in you know self-improvement and in fitness That's what your podcast is about and you know, it's we were when you're dealing with you know Obes you know obesity people who are overweight or people weren't taking care of themselves When I first became a trainer. I remember thinking to myself like God. Why isn't this person just stop? Like eating shitty like it's this person just stop eating shitty? Like it's so fucking easy. Stop eating shitty. Math, right? Just do it.

Just start walking, start working out, stop eating shitty, and then it's done. It's not that hard. It's not that big of a deal. Like, fucking just do it. But what I didn't truly understand, what I didn't truly empathize was... Psychological piece. That whatever they're going through,

the obesity, the health issues, the lack of mobility, the issues with their appearance, all that stuff. Just an expression of something going on deep down. That pain is less than whatever pain they're running from. Exactly. It's literally, they say how alcohol and drugs aren't the solution.

They actually are, for that particular individual, that is the solution. That's not a great solution, but to them, it's better than... It's an escape. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it helps them disconnect. So I just, I have a friend who great solution, but to them, it's better than... It's an escape. Yeah, exactly. ...and it helps them disconnect. So, I just, I just, so I have a friend who, I just talked to yesterday, I just, I totally

forgot about this. I want to bring this up. I have a friend. Yeah, I have a friend. That's it. We're done. No, I had a friend that works in retail and she has this boss who is just a dick. He's a dickhead and he's really obese, like severely, like a hundred pounds over a weight.

Always just an asshole. Well, I guess he went and got gastric bypass to lose weight, and everybody was like, okay, well, maybe he's gonna be, you know, a better guy, and you know, this is gonna totally solve. Chillin' out. Yeah, well, he did the gastric bypass over the course of, you know, a few months or whatever,

afterwards lost a hundred pounds. And it comes to work with a bottle of what looks like water but it's vodka. And it's now drinking at work and is no different than they were before except that they're lighter. And it's just highlighting what we're talking about. There's something there that they're not addressing. And that was just eating food was just,

that was their solution for that. Food is safe, alcohol is safe, or maybe not safe, so why I word, but it's comforting, safer. Yeah, exactly. It's the easy way out. It's the way that I can just endure this thing without actually having to endure this thing.

And this is one of the biggest things that I walk people through when I'm coaching them, whether it's going through a life obstacle or they're significantly overweight, is that they talk about all these things, right? They're like, oh, I couldn't work out because of this or, you know, I overate because of this reason. Well, you most likely know all these things. So when people present all of these obstacles and fears, I'm like, you are literally giving yourself the answers to your own test.

You are describing what you know is before you. There's no surprise. There's no sudden left turn. You know exactly what you need to do. You know exactly how to study. You life is giving you your answers ahead of time. And we're just we're too afraid to pay attention. We're too scared, we're too afraid to pay attention. We're too scared, we're too whatever, because there's an easier way out. You know, you can stare directly into your own hell. And most of the time, most of the time, you can see through it and you can see what that life looks like on the other side.

You can see what a life, a hundred less pounds looks like. You can see what life on the other side of a breakup can look like. But you know what, there's this berry in front of it, so now fuck it, I'm not going to do that. I don't know, dude, I think a lot of people have a hard time seeing through it. I think a lot of people... Well, they fooled themselves. Yeah, they do stories.

They do stories, we tell ourselves, man. Right, right, we get so caught up with the rights in front of us that you can't see beyond that at all, and that's what justifies those means I mean, I think to a certain extent we all Suffer from this or gravitate towards something that makes us Less present and disconnect and that could be it could go we we've talked about drugs Echo but it could be as simple as scrolling on Instagram and searching for dopamine rushes to get likes and friends and scroll hits, scroll hits, scroll hits, I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to and I think so when you get caught up in it, you don't even realize it and I think a lot of us,

I mean, I catch myself still and I'm like, well, what am I detaching from right now that I got in a lot of times because I have something I need to be doing. I should be doing this and maybe doing that. I don't really want to do that. So I do something that just totally numbs my mind. And that could be smoking cannabis, that could be drinking something, that could be popping pills, that could be scrolling up and down on social media. And you know what, that's exactly what I think a big part of what I was talking about before

and sharing that this kind of dark origin of Everford was that I was able to latch on to this brand, this meaning, this purpose of how I show up every day because that was my mask. That was my easy way through. It was so easy to just be like, oh yeah, cool. People like what I'm doing, people like I'm saying. So I can just keep doing that. But I wasn't being honest with myself. I was using this thing honest with myself, I was using this thing as the mask in front of my own hell. And I was using that as a way to not deal with what I really needed to deal with. And that was looking back at this situation, what happened to me physically, what happened to me mentally, emotionally, and this loss. And I wasn't recognizing the gift in it all. And so I was doing

this thing, but it wasn't with true purpose and intent and meaning. It was my mask, but it was just so easy because it was this positive, positive mask, right? It was this cool thing that me and my family, my brother, were all doing. And I was just, you know, I was able to put that up up. And like I said, the last, this last, you wanted two years, especially since I got married, my wife, she's amazing, she calls me out all my show of time. She will always know me better than myself. She has helped me through this,

my working with my coach and being honest with her, and this process has dramatically increased my business and my professional development and my fitness and just how I show up every day. Even in something that's seemingly positive, you know, maybe not becoming alcoholic, maybe not putting on 100 extra pounds, you know, you can not deal with things in positive ways to seemingly positive. That's how people get addicted to exercise.

Oh, yeah, it's a big one. Yeah, exactly, yeah. That's a big one. Yeah. Favorite guests that you've had so far on your show. I know you're only a year in, but you've had quite a few guests, right? Yeah, I've been fortunate enough to have some amazing people on.

I gotta say, I always love connecting Josh Trent. And you guys have had him on the first place. He's such a great guy. He's a great interviewer too. Great interviewer, great interviewer, we, I mean him and I think we're cut from the same cloth and he and a few other people who podcasts are one of the big reasons why I got into it

because I was like, you know what, I like what you're doing, I can fucking do it. So you know, I just try to do it. And I did it. So Josh was amazing. Um, and honestly, I actually had on my wife, which I think was really cool. We did a, we did a couple's Q and A. We still need to do that. We, everyone keeps asking us to. Oh my God, I can ask that. I need nervous to do that. I know that's something you're like, yeah, no problem. You know, yes and no, because even if it makes me look good or makes me kind of look not so good, like she'll shoot it to you straight. And so some of the questions we got were kind of like, she sounds like my word.

Hey, yeah. So I'm a shooter. Brutal honesty, exactly. Straight shooter for sure. Do your downloads reflect your favorites or did you have one that led you have certain episodes that just did way better download wise compared others? I definitely think those two particularly correlate,

for sure, one of my higher downloaded ones. One of the ones that got the most downloads was, and Justin, if you're listening to this man, I'll give you a shout out. One of my sort of kind of coworkers, he is a car tractor by trade, but he works in their deep tissue myrofascial release therapy company. And we talked about, which I thought was going to be tricky about low back pain, but we

really talked about not just about it, but treatment and stuff like that, which is hard to do, I think, in the podcast format. I think video is better for that to work people through. But yeah, that was one of the surprising ones. So I think that just goes to show that topic, like we were talking about before, with topic doesn't always equate to great success in a YouTube video or a podcast download,

it's that how visually does it look or how does it sound? Is this professional great or with him and how we just have a great rapport? So I think people connected with that looking back on it But at the same time is a great topic. Did you did you find a mind pump before Josh trend or after when did you first come across us? I found you guys through wellness force. Yeah, very cool. Yeah, thanks Josh Looking ahead in the future. What's what you guys got planned? What are your what are your goals in the future man? So Taking over the world.

Absolutely, yeah. We got to fight over that. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna have to stay in too. Yeah, let me be fair, I want to take over the world with all of you with me. There we go. I want all of us to just keep doing what we know is our truth,

to keep doing what we're meant to be doing. And for you guys, that's calling bullshit and that's sharing your experiences. I mean, I love your format. I love how you have Justin, Sal, Adam, three totally different lives who came together at a unique point for a reason. And you guys, here you are, man,

you're talking your truth, you're sharing what works, what doesn't, and so many people connect with that. And I, one of my greatest gifts that I've realized is that I'm really, really good at connecting with people who are way more successful than me. And that comes in a lot of different forms, you know, people who are physically stronger. You know, I'm in the quote unquote fitness industry.

Well, you know what, I stand right next to people who out deadlift me all the time. You know, my brother and a lot of other people. You got to help the ego, man. Exactly. I love that though. I love connecting with people who are just in their prong, in their shit, doing what they love to be doing. I feed off of that.

I think drive is one of the most contagious things in the world. And looking back, if you years ago, why was kind of dicking around? I was like, I kind of want to do this, kind of want to do that, don't really know. But the more and more I became involved with people who had their shit together, knew what they wanted to do.

It helps me. And so, whether it's, I'm working out with people who are 10 times stronger than me, having this incredible opportunity coming on Mind Pump, guys who are more successful on paper, quote unquote, you know, maybe in the podcast world, or when I do a YouTube collab with people who just have hundreds of thousands of subscribers, and I'm sitting in like barely 19. So that doesn't really bother me because every time I engage with you guys, or someone else of that mindset,

it just ignites a fire under my ass. And so, I want us all to just keep doing our thing, and I want to be a part of everybody's success, and I want to help out in any way, shape or form, because I know if you succeed, I succeed. Sorry, attitude. You're echoing what we talk about all the time. Echo, you can sit you back, echo.

Thanks man, thanks for coming on the show brother. Guys, it's been a privilege and honor, you know, Justin Saladam. Thank you guys so much. You know, the second you guys, yeah, come on out. I was like, I'll fucking do it. I'll fucking do it. So like don't just be polite with me here, but I want to say, I really find value in your truth.

I find value in what you share, and your raw fitness truth, what you guys share, was honestly a big kind of catalyst, whether I recognize it or not at the time of sharing my truth. And I wanna just hope that this helps other people live their truth, speak their truth, or even just take a step back and think, what am I not facing?

Right, are you being honest with yourself? Exactly, yeah. So you guys keep killing it, it's gonna help me keep killing it, and ever forward, brothers. I appreciate it, brother. Check out YouTube, Mind Pump TV, post new videos all the time.

In fact, I think after this podcast, we may go film a YouTube video. Let's do it. I got my camera. Let's roll. Excellent. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic.

Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbumble is like having Sal and an adjusting as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus

other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.