Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 692: Josiah Novak of The Fitman Project Podcast

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Alright, so in this episode, Adam Justin and I got the opportunity to interview a good friend of ours, Josiah Novak. Now, we've gotten in contact with him a long time ago because he started listening to our podcast. So this is probably almost three years ago where he would contact us and we reply

Starting point is 00:00:35 and talk with him back and forth. And he just showed a lot of promise, very smart dude, very charismatic, good looking fit, seem to have the right message. And it's been really awesome to watch him succeed in the fitness space. He now has a podcast that's been on air for about a year. It's called The Fit Man Project. In fact, if you like Mind Pump, I implore you to go check out his podcast. He's very open, very raw, great interviews, great conversations, and just, you know,

Starting point is 00:01:10 it's another fitness podcast in our space that's promoting a good and honest message, and it's good to see more good people like Josiah succeed. He's actually one of our favorite people. He has a website, thetrutransformation.com and his Instagram page is Josiah Fitness, that's J-O-S-I-A-H Fitness. So check him out, great information.

Starting point is 00:01:38 He's, again, he's one of those few people with a lot of integrity and enough self-awareness to know that he in order to bring the right information to you, he's got to get the experts and then comment on the stuff that he feels like he knows a lot about. You don't feel like he's bullshitting you basically when you hear the guy talking. So again, one of our favorite people. Also this month is January.

Starting point is 00:02:04 Lots of people getting started in fitness. And rather, relatively recently, we've noticed a new influx of brand new people. And we have lots of programs on our website, lots of fitness programs. And one of the most common questions that we get is, where should I start? The fitness program that we offer that we think,

Starting point is 00:02:23 we consider to be our foundational program the one where we think Most people should start in is maps and a ballad and consistently when we ask people When we do surveys which fitness program of ours? Did you enjoy the most? Maps and a ballad is always up there and I think it's because when people do a Maps program for the first time and they choose maps andS and Abolic and it's so different from their traditional body parts split training or it's so different from what they thought was effective training

Starting point is 00:02:51 that when they do it, they're blown away, they're blown away by the results and so they identify strongly with MAPS and Abolic. It's definitely our most popular program. It's found in a lot of our bundles. Well, it's available on our site, mindpumpmedia.com. Now, if you can roll in a bundle that includes any of our maps programs but combined. So we have like the Build Your Bump Bundle, which is maps and a Balic and Maps aesthetic, or the sexy Atty Bundle, or the Super Bundle, which includes a lot of our programs. Any bundle this month comes with a free mind pump t-shirt. These are limited edition. The people love them. They're really soft. They fit really well. So that's the promotion for

Starting point is 00:03:31 the month and rolling any bundle. Get a free t-shirt. But if you're just getting started and you don't want to make that kind of a commitment, the place to start, we believe, for most people, is Maps and a Balic. Again, you can find this all at mypumpmedia.com and without any further ado, here we are talking to our friend Josiah from the Fitman Project podcast. I will say this dude, you are extra-cuttally when you're sick though. It's very difficult. I want to hug you. Yeah, you know what I mean? I want to like... I'll give you something. What do you guys all like when you're sick?

Starting point is 00:04:05 Are you irritable or are you like just whatever guy? I'm kinda like just real lazy. Like I just can barely move, you know? So I just take it as it is. You know, you tell me what to do. I'm like I'm doing it. Now is your wife a really, is Courtney a really good nurse at home

Starting point is 00:04:21 or is because she's a nurse, she's a terrible nurse. It depends. Yeah, sometimes she's terrible. That's right. That's right. How frustrating is that you're like, man. Look at my wife's a nurse and she sucks at taking care of you.

Starting point is 00:04:31 You know what it is. She's your opportunity. I think because she's a nurse, her sympathy, she might think like, all right, you're being a pussy now. Get up and that's what happens most of the time. But if I'm like really sick, then she's like, oh, I'm gonna make you chicken soup, and we're gonna get all this worked out. I am a baby, dude. Yep, yep, yep.

Starting point is 00:04:49 I am like zero to a hundred, bro. Like it pisses me off, I'm such a baby. You're hard to be around in your sick. You don't let people, did you hear me, man? You don't let people take care of you, man. You sit there and you're like angry. I am angry. It's, I don't realize how much it like just irritates me to be you're like angry. I am angry. I don't realize how much it just irritates me

Starting point is 00:05:06 to be knocked down like that. You just can't handle the non-productive nature of being sick. Dude, it just drives me crazy. And I feel like I'm... But you get horny too, you said. Yeah, that's weird. Really?

Starting point is 00:05:17 Yeah, that's what I'm trying. I tried, it didn't work out. Six sex is the best, dude. Six sex? I like six sex. That's a cool plate, like word combination there. Yeah, out. Six sex is the best, dude. Six sex? Yeah, I like six sex. That's a cool plate like word combination there. Yeah, dude. Six sex.

Starting point is 00:05:29 Six sex. I'm a little bitch when I'm sick. You like to? Drama queen, dude. Yeah, I am too. So there's a lot of man cold actions. So you guys wanna hear something funny? So there's the whole stereotype of the man cold

Starting point is 00:05:42 or how men are more dramatic when they're sick and you know not able to handle being sick as much as women make a lot of noises. And what's funny, you know what's funny is a lot of stereotypes are based on some biology. Now I'm not saying this one is but I'm going to speculate. So we're going to enter into speculation. I love how they bring the science in. Yeah, this is not a comedy. No, this is not science. Okay. This is South speculating.

Starting point is 00:06:07 This is South speculation. Okay. First off, there is some science to support. What about speculate? Because they did do some studies on this. And I can we'll put on the show notes where they found that men do perceive that they'll perceive the same cold as worse. So they'll infect men and women. And the men will have more severe symptoms. I believe that. And the women and men are more prone to severe symptoms from certain types of infections, stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:06:32 And the same is true for women for other times, but when it comes to like a cold or the flu, men do perceive the symptoms to be worse. So it begs the question, are we in fact weaker, or is it because we perceive the sickness to be worse? So here's my speculation. I think that women deal with more like shit like that,

Starting point is 00:06:53 so they're perception of it is different than ours. Like pregnancy, a period every single month, that just seems like a motherfucker. That's a great point, the period especially. No, I'm serious. Because women, I mean you a lot of women They're just feeling awful at least once a month. Yeah, I feel awful a lot of women literally get sick every month So they think like a little cold like you're a little like I feel like such a bitch when Katrina and I get sick with like the same

Starting point is 00:07:17 Virus and she gets up and goes to work and I'm late in bed all day long Watching 16 in pregnancy jumping jack, yeah. Jumping jack. So here's my other side of it, because that, I think, plays a major factor also, but here's another side of speculation. So if we evolved as hunter gatherers, right, it's pretty well established that the men or the males were the hunters and the females of the tribes

Starting point is 00:07:41 were the gatherers. And gathering means you stay behind. You have the children. You're searching for roots, nuts, you know, berries, seeds, whatever your building communities, you're communicating with the other women, you're deciding, you know, how things are gonna run or whatever. Now, the men are off hunting. Now, when you're hunting, you don't talk a lot, especially when you're tracking what you're gonna kill, you just can't, you can't say that much stuff. And if one person fucking is loud or slow,

Starting point is 00:08:11 the whole tribe suffer. That's so you think everybody doesn't eat sneezing and cough it. Yes, go home, bear it in. But now on the flip side, if you're sick and you're a gatherer and you're back with the tribe, then it makes sense for the other women to show, to work together, because it's not as big

Starting point is 00:08:29 of a detriment if you're sneezing or a little slow, you still help, you still can help. But if you're a hunter, you might still be able to run and throw a spear and stuff like that, but if you're off by a little bit, because humans hunt and packs, this is pretty well established, and we run animals down. If one of those things is off a little bit, you fuck everybody up. So maybe many evolved to perceive being sick

Starting point is 00:08:50 as worse so that we stayed behind for the betterment of the tribe. It's not a bad theory. I tell my wife that next time. Yeah. So basically what I did is I tried to make something negative. Turn it, you know what I'm saying? Turn it to a box. Which is basically what I just did. Yeah. I can't say evolution of hands. Hashtag, South Science.

Starting point is 00:09:09 So anyway. Did you guys watch the football games last time? I know you did. Football, I know just I did. There was like 10 baskets. This dip in. I knew the Patriots were gonna take it. So, who's your team?

Starting point is 00:09:21 I'm Brady. Well, I mean, I'm a time Brady fan, dude. 40, what is he? 41 now? Yeah, so you're not. How can you not? My buddy's hate on him all the time. And I'm mean, I'm a time Brady fan, dude. 40 years. What is he 41 now? Yeah. How can you not? My buddy's hate on him all the time. And I'm like, he's a big eater.

Starting point is 00:09:29 How can he? He's the best. Well, I hate to say that because I'm a Joe Montana forever guy, but he's surpassed in a long time ago. Dude, he's living the dream, right? Hot wife, making just stupid money. Yeah. 18, how many Super Bulls now is this number?

Starting point is 00:09:44 This is number eight, right right that he's going to Yeah, he's going to eight or nine dude. He's got a ton of ones. He's only lost how many's he lost one or two two the giants Both of them were the giants. Yeah, both. Oh wow. I thought just one so they're going to the Super Bowl We don't know who they're playing against now. They're playing against Philly. Yeah, you know the Eagles took it to it took And then he was like, and he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like,

Starting point is 00:10:04 and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like,

Starting point is 00:10:11 and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like,

Starting point is 00:10:18 and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and then he was like, and, he's gonna, it's gonna suck that he wasn't in there. And but they're saying that no matter what next year,

Starting point is 00:10:25 wins still will be the starter. I agree with that. Yeah. He's MVP this year, right? Right? I mean, I mean, I agree too. I think it's, I think if they were, if they had wins right now, that this would be, they would roll everybody up.

Starting point is 00:10:37 Agreed. Because he's that good and to actually, I did not think, I thought when he went down, I thought, oh, that sucks. I've really had a chance this year, but to see them rolling everybody up still without without your starting quarterback, that's, you got the team, bro.

Starting point is 00:10:51 You have a super backup quarterback, stepping up and making it. Yeah, making it happen. Now, it falls as defense, falls as played a lot too. He's not like some bum, you know what I'm saying? Like he's a good, he's a solid quarterback, especially for him.

Starting point is 00:11:02 I bet he'll get offers next year. Well, yeah, of course. Yeah, no, that's, I mean, if you're him, I, you're, you're pumped no matter what, even though you, you know, because you know, there's some people that were like, oh, he's gonna have all this animosity because he's gonna have to sit behind wins down.

Starting point is 00:11:14 Like, no, fuck that, someone's gonna pay him to top dollar. Some of them pick him up, dude. Yeah, someone will pay him top dollar. The Browns. The Browns are. That's it, the Browns. Dude, you got it, so unfortunate. It's like that's your bad, that's your team, man. Yeah, man. You got it You got it you switch over to basketball. You know if that's the case

Starting point is 00:11:29 Yeah, you're in LeBron motor. Yeah, fuck the football So so Josiah how's everything going man with the with what you're doing you got your podcast going on You're got some online stuff. We haven't talked to you or met with you for, one was it that we were with you. That was July, actually, of this past year. Did you have been that long? Yeah. Yeah, it hasn't been that long, but it has been a long time. And in our world, you know,

Starting point is 00:11:54 we'll see each other for a couple of months, it feels like it's forever. So a lot has happened for you, since then. Let's give us the rundown. Yeah, a lot has happened. Did you have your podcast on air then? I did Yeah, no you guys came on the show in July We were six months into podcast. That's right. It was it was really really new. That was yeah, that was when I

Starting point is 00:12:13 The podcast skyrocketed. I think you guys probably tripled my downloads You know what? That's not even a joke actually, but oh, there's an effect for a man. The mind pump effect There's a mind pump effect. Two other podcasts have told us that. Just kind of cool. Whatever. Joe Rogan told us that because apparently we show him.

Starting point is 00:12:30 Joe Rogan. Yeah, there's mind pump. Checks in the fire. Checks in the mail. No, so your podcast took off. Yeah, podcast is rocking man. Actually right after that, we got our first sponsor with Mike Matthews over at Legion.

Starting point is 00:12:45 Mike Matthews is a fucking great guy. Yeah. Very, very, I'm glad he guys are working together because you guys are both good people. He's a good guy. Family guy, yeah, he's awesome. So it's guy rocked, man, we started getting on a lot more guests with, you know, bigger reach and whatnot.

Starting point is 00:13:00 And so I mean, it's truth be told when I started the podcast right from the beginning, it was a labor of love, man. I said, you know, I'm not really trying to monetize this at all. I'm doing it because I enjoy talking to people and I enjoy having conversations with people like yourselves. And maybe down the road, it'll become something that builds the business and we can monetize and expand with it.

Starting point is 00:13:18 And it is now something we monetize slightly, but it's still a labor of love, man. I mean, it's my passion. Like, I love just having conversations with people. And I'm blessed now with technology and the podcasting world exploding. Do I feel like everybody has a podcast now? It's true. It's such a, it's an easy way to get your foot in the door with someone.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Or just connect, man, like if you're trying to do something on any kind of level, whether if it's just building a relationship or expanding your business relationships, podcasting is just a great, I call it the business card for me now to get in the door with people. It's just an easy way. Oh, it gives you crazy leverage. Like, there's no way in hell.

Starting point is 00:13:51 I'll be able to talk to you. It's a new way to network, man. Yeah, I wouldn't be able to talk to half the people that we talk to if I didn't have a podcast. And I said, hey, I have this podcast you can be on. Yeah, I do. So, some interesting observations that we've been kind of making with pod,

Starting point is 00:14:04 because you're right, it has really exploded relatively recently. Like, bro, when we started Mind Pump three years ago, when I would tell somebody, if I was going to talk about the podcast, I used to have to ask them, do you know what a podcast is? Because a lot of people, most people, didn't even know what it was. They wouldn't even know what a podcast was. And now, I don't say that anymore.

Starting point is 00:14:24 Now I say, what podcast do you listen to? And more often than not, they're familiar with at least, one, so there's that. But here's something else that, because you're talking about sponsorships. So I don't know, halfway through, or right around we started monetizing my pump with our programs, people would ask us about sponsorships

Starting point is 00:14:42 and we'd be like, nah, there's no money in sponsorships until you get really really big You're not gonna make that much money But what's starting to happen now which is kind of strange is we're talking to companies and They're saying things to us like we have this much Budget allotted to podcasting so now that they have a marketing budget It used to be that the marketing budget was you know, whatever radio TV Facebook, you know, whatever, radio TV, Facebook, you know, Instagram. And now, everybody's budgeting, podcasting. And what's cool about

Starting point is 00:15:12 this is if you are a podcaster and you're decent, right? Because if there's a lot that are terrible, I'm going to do anything. But if you're decent and you have somewhat of a reach, the real estate for advertising is limited. There's only so many top 50 podcasts and he's driving it up. The cost of sponsorships is going, even if your podcast doesn't grow, what you're gonna find is that the amount that you can charge for sponsors because,

Starting point is 00:15:36 it's going up because the real estate is limited. And I mean, it's pretty interesting. It's pretty cool to see right now. Yeah, we just talk on, I believe you guys are sponsored by them to Health IQ. Yeah. I got introduced to them through Ryan Mick. Yeah, we just talk on I believe you guys are sponsored by them to health IQ Yeah, I got introduced to them through Ryan Mickler who you guys had on the show as well order a man and Yeah, I was actually pleasantly surprised to hear numbers from them based off our reach I was expecting a slightly lower number, but yeah, dude

Starting point is 00:15:58 I mean, and it's just like you said it's applying to man. So I mean there's there's a lot of podcasts But I was still are you there's not a lot of great podcasts. Yeah, for sure. If you're good, and feedback on our show is that we are good, which, you know, that's great. Then you can start to utilize that to your advantage for sure. And we are, but we're also being strategic. I mean, you know, that's not our main revenue stream. It's still something we're just passionate about.

Starting point is 00:16:23 And so we're careful with who we bring on, who we associate with. Mike was definitely someone we wanted to. Now, how long have you been on air now, total? So one year, as of almost today. So we, I remember how much we grew on the podcast in that first year, like the difference. Have you, what have you, what's gotten better with you?

Starting point is 00:16:42 Like, what have you changed and grown with that period of time? That's a good question, man. Do you ever listen to your first episodes and then compare? I'll do it, I hate listening to my voice, man. It's like the worst. It's like listening to like a nasally fucking adolescent. That's what I think and then people tell me,

Starting point is 00:16:57 oh, you got a radio voice, dude, it's awesome. But I actually recently have started listening to the episodes simply because I've had some really quality guests on and I want to go back back and just kinda listen to what they said and digest it a little bit more and get more of the knowledge bombs that people drop. But for as far as what we've gotten better at, I mean, we hired a team to start editing it

Starting point is 00:17:16 and then repurposing it as well. So putting it on YouTube, so people can listen on YouTube because we've found that that's actually a big medium for people to listen to shows. I know Rogan gets so many views on his podcast episodes on there. We started doing that and then just utilizing the network that we're building, man. That's the biggest thing. How can I now work my way onto podcasts like yours?

Starting point is 00:17:38 The first year was just how many people can I get on the show that are going to help me grow and expand our reach. But then now it's like the goal this year is to release, you know, 150 episodes of our show, but also be on 50 other podcasts. That's a great goal. Yeah. Nothing moves the, you know, the needle of growth on a podcast, getting on another. Yeah. Obviously I'm doing a good job.

Starting point is 00:18:03 Which is challenging though. Yeah, I was just saying that's challenging. Oh yeah, it's not easy man. I'm like even sitting here right now, I'm so used to being in the driver seat as far as the conversation goes, right? And so it takes a lot for me, once I get on someone's show to be like, all right,

Starting point is 00:18:15 let me just hear their question and give a quality answer. Wait, yeah, not just take over the mic. Do you prefer interviewing versus being interviewed? I would say yeah, I probably prefer interviewing more because I get to ask all the questions that I really want to know. Right. But once again, being interviewed for me is probably more difficult, so it's a challenge, so I have to do more of it because I'm not as good at being interviewed as I am interviewing someone.

Starting point is 00:18:43 So it's something that I'm excited about because it's an area of improvement for sure. See, that's funny. I think I like, I think I like to be interviewed more than I like interviewing. Not simply because it's, uh, uh, it's easier. Yeah, it's easier. Like I actually feel like I'm with you though, Joseph. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ask. Yeah. It's, it's easier to get me in all about me. Plus I figure. These fucking egos are There's a lot of people yeah, there's a lot of me all day. There's a lot of truth about me

Starting point is 00:19:12 For being really self-check where yeah, there's a little bit of truth Yeah, maybe I feel like I don't get to say enough when I'm this fucking Sal talks to us I'll talk to you. Get to say that. I love it. That's true. That is slash Jesus. We should track that, right? Track total time talked.

Starting point is 00:19:28 I would love that. Well, that might change, too, for me. I mean, after this year and doing 50 other shows, I might find that I do enjoy being interviewed more, right? It's just, I think for me, I'm so used to, like, just asking, maybe it's a control factor, too. You know, I like being in control of where the conversation goes.

Starting point is 00:19:42 Sometimes I go into an interview recently on some shows that are not fitness-based and they want to talk about certain things that are a little uncomfortable and I'm like, oh man, all right, it was going to be challenging. It's not something I'm used to. What do you mean not fitness-based? What were they on? So business-based, family-based, actually went on one. It was about pornography, which pornography and how it impacts you as a dad and husband and whatnot. That was a shit. Really crazy. Hook me up with that. Yeah, yeah, I was.

Starting point is 00:20:07 Interesting conversation. Yeah, that's gotta be really interesting. What was, I mean, what's the idea of their show? I mean, you literally, it's all about pornography. No, it was just that topic. Just that topic of the episode. Yeah, you guys know Vince Del Monte. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:18 We're with him next two weeks. Are we? Okay. We talked about porn, which is, it was a good conversation, man. But yeah, it was a little challenging. And so, yeah, it's just those conversations. What did he ask you?

Starting point is 00:20:31 What did he ask you? That was so great. I mean, was it a favorite porn? No, was it like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

Starting point is 00:20:40 like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, Well, it was just kind of where the conversation took us, but it was somewhat planned ahead Yeah, because he he's been talking a lot about masculinity and porn and how it impacts guys and our marriage and whatnot and so it just kind of was the topic at hand because we both come from similar Backgrounds, you know, he's a Christian. I'm a Christian and

Starting point is 00:20:58 You know, we both have kids both have two kids and a wife and it was just something he's battle with actually You know with addiction and some of the things he's had to put in place to get over it have been incredible. And so just talking about addiction and because I come from a history of addiction with my family. And I feel like porn is definitely something

Starting point is 00:21:15 that if you give it a chance, you can fall deep into that addiction. Totally, totally. You're right. I mean, you're a little younger than we are, but you're in the kind of a similar age range in terms of generation. And this thing keeps coming up this whole masculinity mask.

Starting point is 00:21:30 I haven't heard people talk about, I talked about it like three years ago. I haven't heard people, anybody talk about masculinity as much as I'm hearing now. Like recently. As if, almost like there's a crisis of masculinity. Would you agree that that, do you think that that's happening? Absolutely, man.

Starting point is 00:21:45 I went to Ryan Mickler's event from Order of Man. I was a guest speaker there over the summer. It was a group of about 200 men that showed up from his Order of Man tribe. Some of the stories I heard broke my heart because at this stage in my life, I have two little boys. I come from a history of abuse and addiction and a big passion of my right now is improving as a father, improving as a man.

Starting point is 00:22:11 And speaking of the guys there, man, I was like, holy shit dude, we do have a crisis. I feel like at least if you take that population and that sample size, but yeah, everywhere I look, there's this kind of, what does it mean to be a man topic, right? Like, where are we going as men, or, and I think, and it's just my theory, but I'm sure it's in reaction to a lot of the movements

Starting point is 00:22:34 that we see in other parts of the world, right? When it comes to gender equality and gender expression, you know, in my man, in my woman, the gay, lesbian, movement, and the things that we're seeing, the progress we're seeing in those areas, I think that men, I don't know if they feel threatened, or maybe it's just like, hey, we need help too, right? Like, I'm out here too. I, I 100% think that there is a crisis of masculinity, but I don't think, when we hear the word crisis, we think of bad.

Starting point is 00:23:04 I don't necessarily think it's bad. I think it's just a massive, very quick shift in change that has happened in a very short period of time. That's all I think it is. Whether it's good or bad will be, we'll find out. But for millennia, for most human civilization, there are ways that men and women and humans have acted and

Starting point is 00:23:25 developed cultures around because they work, okay? Because they've worked historically. And the way that they've worked historically now is being challenged. So what I mean by that is men historically have been, you know, you know, breadwinners, we, or we protect, we're needed for those types of things, hunting, you know, you know, breadwinners, we, or we, we protect, we're needed for those types of things, hunting, you know, providing the, you know, the resources, women were responsible for distribution of the resources. They were responsible for, you know, nesting and child

Starting point is 00:23:57 rearing and those types of, so these are the, of course, the stereotypical gender roles, but they're based on, they've been around for a long time. They've been around since the beginning. They're, they're, they're, they're based on, They've been around for a long time. They've been around since the beginning. They're based on... And this, by the way, this is all 100% backed by science. This is not a sexist thing to say. This is all in the literature. Men, for example, will, when they're seeking a mate,

Starting point is 00:24:20 they will seek a cross and down from the hierarchy matrix or whatever. So they're looking for a woman that is on the same level on the hierarchy ladder and below them. And typically younger and women will typically look above or across. So it's more likely that a woman's are going to be attracted to a man who has higher income, higher status,

Starting point is 00:24:42 and maybe even a higher IQ. And the reverse is also true. And this you can go down the list. You can look at a woman's IQ, the higher it gets, it's also strongly correlated to the less chance she's going to find and be with them for a long time. Now, there's lots of reasons for this. I'm just stating the facts.

Starting point is 00:25:00 So right now, we have a society that's extremely safe. So you don't need to like be super protect, you know, protecting as a man. You don't need to hunt really. Women have incredible earning power and they actually kill us in education. So women are far more educated. If you look at the total number of people in college or, you know, informal education, women actually are higher than men. So now we've got these, and these are not just cultural, because they've been with us for so long, they're also biological, so there's both components.

Starting point is 00:25:31 So now you have a man born today where the education system really is geared around the female brain, and also don't forget the individual variance between people's massive. So these are vast generalizations. You can have a man who's very much very different and a woman that's very, very different. But generally, you have, you know, meant,

Starting point is 00:25:52 there's no longer that role that we were both biologically, you know, connected to through revolution and culturally in our culture is very old. It's been around for a long time. So it's like, what do I do? Who am I? Where do I go? And this has only been happening for a long time. So it's like, what do I do? Who am I? Where do I go? And this has only been happening

Starting point is 00:26:06 for a very short period of time. Not long. Yeah, this is when you talk about the big picture, like you are taking it all the way back and talking about evolution. And I have to say that because people get confused and they're like, no, that's the patriarchy, that's society, that's, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Starting point is 00:26:21 this has been going on for a long time. Forever. And so men today have to. It's on. And so men, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, about it is, are we seeing the pendulum swinging hard one way right now and you're going to see it re-correct? Or are we going to keep going in this direction to where we almost become the same sets? Yeah, I don't know. What do you think, is that? Wow, yeah, I mean, with two little boys, I hope Adam, I hope you're right. I hope we're going to swing in the other direction. Just simply because I do think there is a need for strong, gender identification on both sides, right? I think that we need strong masculinity as well as strong feminine qualities because both serve a role and there's no equal or less or anything of that nature.

Starting point is 00:27:12 It's just very useful for... They're extremely important. Yeah, for how we develop and how you know like... I do a partnership. Exactly. I mean, I do a lot of research on boys who are raised with out of that, right? Because that's where I come from, or at least not a present father figure, and the statistics are pretty insane, man, as far as what kind of future those kids could be facing. It's getting in trouble. Let's dive into that a little bit, because when you interviewed me, we talked a lot about

Starting point is 00:27:40 my childhood, and you referenced you and I being almost identical, but obviously you were interviewing me so I didn't get a chance to really dive into you and your story. Share with our audience kind of how you and I are similar and what that's been like and then some of your findings that you've read. Yeah, so I grew up in a military household. We moved every two years. I'm the oldest of six kids. My dad was never home. He was always deployed. He was always in a foreign country, doing a lot of things overseas. We lived overseas for a period of time,

Starting point is 00:28:12 but when my dad was home, he was an alcoholic. I mean, that's all he did was drink in his downtime. My mom and him were fighting since, as early as I can remember. I mean, it was like a constant argument going on in the house. And my dad, who I don't know necessarily if it was a frustration from his relationship with his dad, which was a horrible one, his dad was an alcoholic as well.

Starting point is 00:28:33 His mom died at a very early age, and my dad suffered a lot of physical abuse growing up. And his anger would come out in the form of physical abuse with us as well. And me being the oldest of six kids, I was the guinea pig with everything, right? So I was the first one to fuck up, I was the first one to talk back,

Starting point is 00:28:48 and get in trouble on all those things. And so I was really the target for his abuse. And so when I was just a kid, probably around six, seven, eight years old, the one thing I did take away from my dad was his physical stature, right? Like he was just a physical specimen. He was always working out. He was training with the Navy SEALs. He was doing a lot of things that were physical

Starting point is 00:29:08 and then he was beating my ass whenever he was home, right? And so, my thought from that youthful 8, 9, 10 years old age was, I want to get in physical shape so I can kick my dad's ass, right? Because I don't want to be, first of all, I want to stand up for my siblings because I was very protective as well, but also I want to defend myself.

Starting point is 00:29:27 And I went from being petrified of my dad to being confident with confronting him, probably around age 13, 14, when I started to hit the gym. And the gym became kind of my peaceful place, right? My therapy, my ability to get away from the chaos. My parents finally got a divorce. I say finally because man, it was a long time coming. Like I was praying for that day when I was about 12.

Starting point is 00:29:52 And didn't really see my dad much after that. He was out of the picture. He was still in the military. He was traveling. But when I did see him, our relationship was terrible. You know, it was just constant talking down to me, telling me that I was never gonna amount to shit. I was just basically a worthless kid.

Starting point is 00:30:09 For whatever reason, his anger was directed at me. I don't know if it was just looking back, I'm assuming it was probably because he wasn't 100% happy with where his life had gone. He had six kids, I mean beautiful kids, and a beautiful wife and all those things, but for whatever reason, it didn't satisfy him. He wanted something more.

Starting point is 00:30:24 So he was out of the picture, and the gym became my safe zone, man. It was my place of refuge. And so, but growing up without a strong father figure, meaning in my eyes, my father was just someone I was afraid of, someone I didn't want to see, someone I didn't talk to, I didn't have the birds and the bees talk with my dad. I had to figure that shit out on my own. It really left a huge scar, man. It was something I really didn't address

Starting point is 00:30:52 and actually confront until I was in my early 20s. Did you have a lot of animosity towards your parents or him? Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Both of them are just. Oh yeah, I would argue today that I still have some you know because I Asked my mom, you know, why did you let this shit happen? You know cuz dude, I remember her The main words she always used was I'm gonna I'm gonna call the cops, you know like I'm gonna call the cops this time

Starting point is 00:31:17 because of the things he was doing to me and I remember having bruises all over my legs and arms and you know the I ever had, and I'm writing a book right now in fatherhood, but the intro to the book is when I remember the strongest memory I have of interacting with my dad was him choking me up against the wall because he was mad about something. I came home and I had talked back to my mom and he just picked me up out of a fucking terminator movie and put me up against the wall and was like, swing back, motherfucker. Those are the memories I have. Of course I have animosity. It's like, man, I feel back, motherfucker, you know, like those are the memories I have. And so of course I have animosity, you know, it's like, man, you know, I feel like my

Starting point is 00:31:47 anger that sometimes comes to the surface today is a result of having it pint up for so long with you. Now, now looking at you now, you know, you got beautiful kids, beautiful wife, you, you know, successful. You seem very put together. You're definitely somebody who's a go-getter. Do you think you succeeded in spite of him or because of him?

Starting point is 00:32:12 Oh, dude, that is an awesome question. This goes back to the conversation I prefer to be the interviewer. No, that's a great question, and I think about that all the time actually, because I think it's both, man. I think that as much as he wanted me to either fail or go down his path and be a clone of his, right?

Starting point is 00:32:30 Despite that, I said no, I'm going to create my own path, I'm gonna forge my own way and figure this thing out for myself, but on the other hand too, I think because of the experiences I had and because of how much I hated growing up in that environment, it's driven me to search for mentors, for education, for how can I, what's the answer to not repeating history, right?

Starting point is 00:32:53 Because the history of divorce and the history of abuse isn't just on my dad's side. It's my mom's side too. I mean, the story with her parents is absolutely insane. That's why she stuck around. Yeah, 100%. 100%. Her mom did the same thing with her dad. She stuck around despite him stepping out on the marriage all the time, despite him,

Starting point is 00:33:10 you know, being fully invested in his business and zero percent invested in the marriage. So I just don't want to, I just don't want history to repeat itself. That was my biggest motivation factor when I was in my mid-20s and I started to really dig into this stuff because I said, hey, I do want to be happy, right? I do want to have a life mid 20s and I started to really dig into this stuff because I said, hey, I do wanna be happy, right? I do wanna have a life that's fulfilling. I wanna leave a legacy for my kids. I don't want someone little, little decide to be on a podcast 20 years from now.

Starting point is 00:33:32 My fucking dad, you know, used to choke me and shit. I, no, that's not what I want. That, that's something that would keep me up at night, right? So it's become my mission and it just so happens to health and fitness. I mean, it could have been any industry that I fell in love with, but it was fitness for me because of what it did for me as a kid.

Starting point is 00:33:48 It's such a mind-fuck because when you look back at some of these challenging times, it's like, is that why I'm where I'm at now? Is that why I can talk about and share what I'm sharing now? And if I didn't have that, where would I be, and would I be able to impact as many people? Well, when I started becoming a fitness professional, I was a trainer and I never talked about this stuff, dude. Like I never, in fact, it hasn't been until probably the past year and a half

Starting point is 00:34:14 that I've started to actually talk about why I got into health and fitness. It was always just me trying to be like every other fitness guy. You only show my abs, let me do a photo shoot, let me bench press 400 pounds or whatever. That's gonna get me a bigger business. No, it's not at all.

Starting point is 00:34:29 It's my business is exploded by being vulnerable, right? Actually talking about these things and saying, hey, I'm, I've gone through some shit too, man. I know where you're coming from, you know? And that's, that's taken our business to a whole other level, but it hasn't been easy. It's still kind of scary to talk about this stuff because like you said, with the masculinity thing,

Starting point is 00:34:44 like the last thing I wanna feel is like, oh man, I'm not being a man. I should be hiding this shit. You know, I shouldn't be talking about all these emotions. What's your relationship look like with both your parents right now? There is no one my dad. The last time I interacted with him,

Starting point is 00:35:00 took a bunch of prodding and pleading from mentors and friends to reach out to him, right? Say, hey, man, be the bigger man, like, you know, and reach out to him and say, hey, I want you to be a part of my life now that I have kids. I want my boys, because dude, truth be told, my dad has some incredible qualities. Incredibly musician, he can play like three different instruments. He can build anything, you know, he's built partial houses, he's built so many things with his hands, like just from scratch.

Starting point is 00:35:25 He has skills, right? I mean, I want my kids to get some of the good things from him. But what ended up happening was, and if he's listening to this, awesome, but I reached out to him on Father's Day, the first Father's Day I ever had, right as a dad. I reached out to him and said, hey, you know, I know we haven't talked in

Starting point is 00:35:41 at that point, it had been like eight years, right? But I was like, I want, you know want you to be a part of my son's life because he has one grandfather right now who's awesome on my wife's side, but I would like you to be in his life too. And he said, okay, I appreciate that. Why don't you come have dinner with us. So he's remarried now, he's got another wife,

Starting point is 00:35:59 and he had us over for dinner, and they had this whole thing where they were like, yeah, we're gonna be a part of your life now and like this is awesome and it was actually kind of surreal. And after we left, we hadn't heard from him since, man. Like he just has this thing where he doesn't want. He doesn't wanna be a part of our life. We've reached out to him, no.

Starting point is 00:36:17 Now do you think maybe he's ashamed or do you think there's another reason besides, or do you think that's just a character fall of his? He's a full blown narcissist, in my opinion. Meaning, you know, when he was a kid, because I've done my research on this, I had to dig to the bottom of like why he's like this. You know, I was searched for answers now,

Starting point is 00:36:32 I'm kind of that piece with it, but I believe as a kid, he was raised in two different environments. One where it was extreme abuse, right, where his dad was whipping his ass and beating him up and telling him he wasn't or shit. And then the other environment he was in was with his relatives, his cousins and whatnot who beating him up and telling him he wasn't or shit. And then the other environment he was in was with his relatives, his cousins and whatnot, who built him up, let him do anything you wanted.

Starting point is 00:36:50 Your king of the world, dude. Like, you can have it all, right? And so, I think his mindset and his outlook on life is that of what he had when he was with his relatives. I'm king of the world. I don't need to answer anybody. I don't need to do it. Why not?

Starting point is 00:37:04 If you're gonna identify it with one with the other, why not pick that one? Yeah, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, girls, but he has no relationship with the boys at all. So it's something with the men. I mean, I truly believe it's some kind of pattern that he picked up on from his dad and his interaction with him. And he just doesn't know how to have a relationship with me. And I think it is some shame, I do. Now, what about your relationship with all your siblings?

Starting point is 00:37:38 Are you guys all really close or are you guys divided? Like, what's that look like? No, we're not close. I'm very close with my youngest brother. I was considering him my best friend. Like he's just everything to me. What's the difference in age? Nine years.

Starting point is 00:37:51 Nine years different. Wow, that's unique that you have that many siblings and you're the closest to the youngest. Wow, why is that? I think it's because the middle siblings really went through the shit, right, with my parents. And me included, right? So me and then the shit, right, with my parents. And I, me included, right? So me and then the three, right after me, went through hell with the divorce.

Starting point is 00:38:11 Saw the worst shit, you know, the worst abuse. My dad hitting my mom, pushing her down the stairs, like crazy stuff, right? And I think we all kind of latched onto our unique, you know, whatever we could. My sister who's two years younger than me, she lashed on to veganism and saving animals and like, that's just her mission, right? She's got a little boy herself. So she went down that path and then my brother who's five years younger than me, really got into like IT and computer graphic design and all those things

Starting point is 00:38:38 and just totally different than me, right? I was big into sports and working out and all that. And I think we just became these islands because we were so just, I don't know at the time, it was chaotic and for whatever reason, we kind of separate ourselves from each other. But then the youngest didn't really go through that. They were like, they always kind of saw my parents divorced or separated or whatever.

Starting point is 00:38:55 And so they never experienced it. And I think that may be allowed me to build a relationship with them a little bit better because they didn't have that experience, right? So it was kind of like just two totally different experiences versus going through shit together and being like, fuck man, that was just horrible and not wanting to talk about it, you know what I mean? So when you have your healthy kids, they are three and one and a half. So what are the things now that you try to practice in terms of being a father with a patience,

Starting point is 00:39:20 man? That's the biggest thing. That's the hardest thing. You know what's crazy is actually, when I met my wife, one of the number one qualities she said that she enjoyed about me was that I'm patient, that I'm just super laid back, like I'm easy going, yeah, I'll just do that, I'm cool with that, whatever. That does not mean anymore, dude. I'm not patient anymore, like I've lost it somewhere along the way.

Starting point is 00:39:43 But in kids will test you, man. Different ways. So that's why I'm writing my book because I'm like, hey look, I, you know, it was kind of like fitness. You know, it took me a while to figure out what it meant to be healthy and fit, right? Like what does it really mean to be healthy and fit? And so that was a struggle.

Starting point is 00:39:58 But then when I knew I was gonna be a dad, I thought, man, I got this on lock because I know what it's like to be a shitty dad. So I'm just gonna do the exact opposite. Without realizing that these kids come out with their own personality, their own set of what they think is right and wrong, they have no... They challenge you. Every single little boy.

Starting point is 00:40:18 My son, my three year old, we were almost born the same day, which is kind of weird, but we put heads to it like we're boys. We were almost born on the same day, which is kind of weird, but we, uh, we, but heads, dude, like, like, we're boys. You know what I mean? Like, we're friends, like, fighting it out, dude. Like, it's crazy, but it's this personality, you know, it's like, he, he and I are probably extremely similar. At least my wife says we are.

Starting point is 00:40:36 And it's just, it tests me daily. It's multiple times a day, often. Three-year-olds in general, ten-year-old. Oh, yeah. I mean, when my daughter was three, she would throw temper tantrums anywhere. And I used to literally joke about like, wow, if I could hook up like an energy machine to you, you could power a city.

Starting point is 00:40:53 A city, yes. With the amount of evil energy though. And oh, like, like Sloother. Yeah. Yeah, like like they're throwing, does your kid throw tantrums or you think to yourself like, is this normal?

Starting point is 00:41:02 Should I go to the doctor? Like, is this a, are you possessed? So we've been to a therapist, me and my wife. Oh, no. Because the three-year-old made us feel like there's something like, not right, and therapists like, do this is normal. Yes, part of the process. This is normal. Like, what do you guys, why you guys here?

Starting point is 00:41:18 You know, it was the one of the, you know, it's one of the most terrifying, one of the most terrifying things I've ever heard of my entire life. So when my daughter would throw these tantrums, she's very, very, very strong willed. My son was too, but not like my daughter, my daughter was very strong willed. And she'd throw these tantrums that were just insane. And so I did, I called the doctor who's also was a client of mine, so we were friends.

Starting point is 00:41:39 And I'm like, you know, I know I'm a paranoid parent because I used to call her all the time for stupid shit. And I say, but this is, like, she throws herself on the floor and I'm like, I feel like she's gonna make herself pass out. And she'd be like, listen, totally normal, three-year-old do this, don't worry, she goes, and then she said this to me, this is nothing, just wait till she's a teenager.

Starting point is 00:41:59 And I just got terrified. You hear that, honey, you sure you want one of these? Cause you know, when they're three, you can put them in a room with pillows. You hear that honey? You sure you want one of these? Cuz you know when they're when they're three you can put them in a room with pillows You can like pick them up. Yeah, you can be like here. You're crazy. Yeah when their teenagers like I'm leaving Oh shit, what do I do now? No a teenage woman she's she'll have the a wit and ability especially yours Cuz they're gonna be smart to like brain ninja you bro to say some shit that's just gonna like oh, sell your fuck Yeah, I wish I had a father that I loved to say some shit that's just gonna like, oh, Sal, you're fucked, man.

Starting point is 00:42:22 Yeah, I wish I had a father that I loved. She'll say something. Oh, exactly. She's gonna say some shit like that. I'm sorry, crying, right? No, you can't do that. This is it. She's gonna zip one like that to you, though.

Starting point is 00:42:34 When you had two, did you ever think about like maybe a third or was it just like two is good? So if I were in a marriage that was, you know, not dysfunctional, happy, and you know, everything was good, I pro, you know, not dysfunctional, happy, and, you know, everything was good. I, you know, looking back, I've always wanted a lot of kids. That's the thing.

Starting point is 00:42:51 Now, when I had mine because of my situation, it made me not, made me not want to have anymore, you know what I mean? But I did, if you asked me before any of that, I grew up in a big family. I like noise, I like kids around. I don't mind necessarily messes and stuff like that. It's not that big of a deal I enjoy.

Starting point is 00:43:11 So, I don't know, it's tough, because now my perception on it is skewed because I'm divorced, and of course they know after all that. I'm like, let's like the plague if I think about it, but I don't know, it's interesting. But I love kids, man, I love kids. I like the family go ahead and say no. He's slowly changing his tune just two years ago.

Starting point is 00:43:29 He was very anti anymore, children. Oh, yeah, I mean, two kids only. A divorce will do that. You come out of a managerable. After that, it is unmanageable. You know what I think? It's just math, unless you have an assistant. Here's what I think.

Starting point is 00:43:42 Oh, pair. I think the chaos chaos gets higher and higher and then you reach a point where you surrender. Totally do it. You just give it into it, you know. I believe that. That's the point where I am now. I've kind of had like an awakening.

Starting point is 00:43:56 I'm like, dude, your house is a fucking mess with Toys and shit every where sometimes. Yeah, I mean, we, I have a maid now that comes every like a couple of weeks because otherwise it would be like fucking walking dead of you. I have to. Yeah, you'd be like spray pan the walls and shit like what the hell music just blasting and all here's kids screaming at a

Starting point is 00:44:11 Puppie so my so we there's four of my families was four of us I remember I remember literally thinking this literally thinking sometimes like because my mom would be the one that would be with us Most of the time remember thinking like my mom like why she lose her mind all the time Yeah, I said tell my mom I actually, my mom, like, why is she losing her mind all the time? I said, tell my mom. I actually sit my mom down. Here I am on like 10, right? Because I've always been like older than my age. And I sit down with her and I'd be like, listen, mom.

Starting point is 00:44:32 And this would piss her off. I'd be like, you need to learn how to relax. Like you've way to, that still pisses women off. Oh, yeah. I'd be like, you're way too stressed out. You don't need to yell so much. You don't need to, and then she would just get so crazy. But now that I have kids, I look,

Starting point is 00:44:46 I've done so many times, I call my mom, and I'm like, hey mom, I apologize for those conversations, I could see why. Dude, I had to, it's just not sure, my. I'm like, really, really just shocked at myself, because I go through these phases where I'm like, dude, I wanna like adopt one of these kids, though, right? Because there's so much chaos, at least it seems like it.

Starting point is 00:45:03 You're gonna rent them out to people. Yeah, and then five minutes after I leave the house, I'm like in tears because I miss them so much. You know, like it's crazy. And then I tell my wife and I are both in agreement that we think two is good, right? Like we're happy. But then we both have these moments

Starting point is 00:45:16 and it's almost like biologically, my brain is telling me to reproduce again because I see like these little kids or younger than mine now, you know, mine's youngest a year and a half. And I'm flying here to San Jose and I'm sitting next to this little cutest little girl ever and she's like a year old and she's so well behaved and I'm like damn like I'd love to have a little girl like you know, if I try one more time, I'll get one like this.

Starting point is 00:45:37 I'll get a good one. I'm rolling the dice. Exactly. Maybe the third one's a charm. It's like our biological instinct. What about you Justin? Have you ever had those thoughts? Never. I have the rock solid on two. Maybe the third ones are charged like our biological instinct. What about you just you never have those thoughts never

Starting point is 00:45:46 I'm the rock solid on to yeah, yeah, I would have a panic attack if like you know I got a call and I had to it was driving home like I actually thought about this Yeah, yeah, cuz I mean there's been a few scares, but you know what like whatever did you never plan for it? I would roll with it. it's just how it goes. So yeah, that's just kids and Gerald. You're considering though getting a snipped, right? And that's what you're planning on doing? Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:46:12 We can do it together, man. Let's just go now. Sniff and party. I kind of need, you know, some moral support. So I'm scared shitless, man. You know, if you get, you know, when you get a second, it may actually reduce the amount of semen that you produce. You actually may reduce seminal volume.

Starting point is 00:46:27 No more porn, uh, whatever you say. So it's like when you finish, it's just, yeah, air. That's depressing. It's just clear liquid. Oh, man, nothing. Really? Just water.

Starting point is 00:46:38 No, it just drips out. Just like, be a bit more. That's sad. Yeah, we'll learn to it anymore. You know what? I would be a little bit. It kind of ruined things a little bit. Of course, that would be like that's half of the orgasm is that how hard and how much

Starting point is 00:46:50 you have to tell. Oh, you want that? I like to measure it. If I were in a shoot. Yeah, if it dribbles out, I'm like, well, that was really good for fantasy. That was obviously the light of that. Obviously, I'm not into the teacher thing. I thought I was.

Starting point is 00:46:59 I wonder woman gets me to the ceiling. That's how I measure fantasies I think oh that wasn't fucking as cool as I thought oh wow look babe I shot 15 inches Don't take a blue light in my bedroom, man Would you paint you with a bunch of but to fluorescent you have name on the wall with no man But a little girl, you know little girls which which is fucking melt you. Melt you totally differently. Not better, not worse. It's just, it is what it is, man.

Starting point is 00:47:30 It's just a little different. That's what everybody says. All my best friends have all girls. It's like two or three girls, each one of them. And they all tell me the same thing. Like it totally changes you, man. I'm like, yeah, dude. I got my two boys though, my two little monkeys.

Starting point is 00:47:42 Yeah. Good deal. Now, how do you manage it right now with the traveling and getting on shows and do all that? Your wife worked her. She does, yeah. She actually has her own business too. She is in the beauty industry.

Starting point is 00:47:53 She still cuts hair part time. She managed, she was like high up on a very big corporate hair chain, I guess, when I met her. And her career was super cut. Oh yeah, right. Nice. Some East Coast company, it's called Nancy. Bubbles, I guess, and her career was super cut. Oh yeah, right. Nice. Some East Coast company, it's fancy.

Starting point is 00:48:07 Bubbles I guess was who she was working for. But yeah, so she was, I know, her career path was just skyrocketing when we met and then she got pregnant, horrible pregnancy, like super sick, you know, fucking dead to the world the whole time. And so her career kind of got put on pause. She became a full time mom for

Starting point is 00:48:26 a period of time for about two years. I was starting a business kind of on the tail into that. And when we had our second one, she felt decent enough to go back to work. So she missed it, right? She was like, I miss, you know, my clients, I miss cutting hair, I miss doing that stuff, but she just was like, I can only handle part time. So she's been part time since we had our second one, but then she recently, over the past year, started her own like, eyelash extension business. So she does that full time.

Starting point is 00:48:51 That's big business, by the way. Yeah, dude, she's killing it, man. She's booked, you know, she's over subscribed or whatever for like months. So she's doing that, but dude, managing it all is like another thing I'm passionate about, because this is really tough, right? I mean, when you have two kids, and you guys know,

Starting point is 00:49:07 and when you're trying to build a business, and Justin, I think we talked about this when you came on my show, but it's one of the things that people don't see enough of, right? The behind the scenes, right? Everybody thinks it's all rainbows and fucking Instagram filters and shit, it's not, right? It's a lot of sacrifice.

Starting point is 00:49:22 I mean, for me to get to the next level, whether it's even something that's coming out and seeing you guys taking a flight and being gone for two days, takes a team effort. Yeah. Takes a huge team effort. So, with two little kids, obviously, they're not independent. They can't do anything by themselves. So my wife, God bless her, she takes on a lot of the responsibility, right? She lets me do what I need to do, whether it's recording podcasts,

Starting point is 00:49:46 whether it's business for the fitness side of things. And she respects that. So important. I mean, without my wife, I mean, obviously, she's just as responsible for your success as you are. Oh, 100%. Yeah, dude, it's 100%. I mean, there's no, nobody's, and you know,

Starting point is 00:50:01 initially it was a struggle because obviously you get thrown into the new path of being a parent. You're like, man, I'm fucking doing more than you and she's like, no it was a struggle because obviously you get thrown into the new path of being a parent, you're like, man, I'm fucking doing more than you. And she's like, no, I'm doing more than you. And it's like that initial struggle. But then you realize, man, we're both just out here trying to do the same thing.

Starting point is 00:50:14 Take care of our kids, provide for the family. But it does take a lot of planning. I mean, I think anybody who's aspiring entrepreneur or who has kids and is like, man, maybe I should have a side hustle or something like that. I would say the biggest mistake I made was just not being really well planned out. Like just, I mean, it's great to take action,

Starting point is 00:50:30 you know, aim, fire, shoot, whatever the fucking thing is, just take action. But you also, if you have a lot going on in responsibilities with family, you need to plan it, man. That's, you know, I sit down, I spend a lot more time, I would say, planning now than anything else, like just mapping it out. Efficiency is everything.

Starting point is 00:50:47 Efficiency. Yeah, you have to get to that place and it unfortunately does come with scheduling. Yeah. Which is something I used to never do. And I was just like, I would just stay at work. I'm just gonna stay here all day because eventually I'll get stuff done.

Starting point is 00:50:59 Yep. But you really have to manage your time effectively and use that to your own advantage because you don't have that excess time to burn. So it makes you better, I think. I think it can make you better or it can make you fail, but it makes you better because you have to be. One thing that I learned is just to make peace

Starting point is 00:51:17 with what is and what I mean by that is, when you're in this state of planning and chaos and the kids and work and I'm traveling and all the stuff, you can either hate it or you can make friends with it. You're in it anyway. And so a mind game that I'll play with myself is I'll say, okay, what if this is how it's always going to be? What if it'll never change? What if it never gets the point where, you know, I can make this much, so I only have to work this much or what if it's always like this, let me pretend like that, let me just imagine that and make peace with it and it makes things a lot easier

Starting point is 00:51:49 versus being in it and like fighting it. Oh, this is, I'm too busy, this can't happen, I'm traveling too much, I can't, because then you're making a nightmare of what the reality is, what you can't change. Now, just say, you said that there was a time where she, when she first got pregnant that in her career was kind

Starting point is 00:52:05 of booming and taking off, she had to back off of that and then obviously come home, raise the kid. You were also the same time trying to launch something. Did that put a lot of stress on the relationship and was there any animosity from her with, with you with having to leave that for you to pursue your career? 100% dude. Yeah, 100%. Coming from generations, multiple generations of divorce,

Starting point is 00:52:26 another thing that keeps me up and night, or did keep you up and night, was the potential of divorce. It happens more than it doesn't, right? And today's, especially Western culture. Now, she is 100% Afghan. So her ancestry is 100% from Afghanistan. And she lived in Germany up until she was 15.

Starting point is 00:52:43 And then, so she came to the United States when she was 15 and she's been her ever since. So she's been here for about a decade and a half. But yeah, her side of family is much more about marriage, about loyalty, right? And so there's no divorce, right? It's like, hey, dude, you're fucking married. That's it, you miserable.

Starting point is 00:53:02 Enjoy it, you're gonna be married, right? And so, from her perspective, yes, there was animosity and there was struggle and man, we fucking fought a lot, right? And we went from not fighting at all to fighting a lot. And so there were moments where I was like, damn dude, like, here we go. This is what happens, you know what I mean? Now I know why people get divorced. But I would say, you know, we're fortunate, right, to where we do compliment each other. And I think at the end of what feels like World War III was some of these fights, there is learning from that, right? There is saying, hey, we fucked up, right? Like, I fucked up or she says, I fucked up and we do, we do come together and we build from that,

Starting point is 00:53:39 but it would do it as far from easy, man. Like I laugh, we joke around all the time about some of the Instagram or social media couples that we see who it's all like holding each other up over, you know, the balcony and ocean and shit. And it's like, it's not like that, man. I mean, if we could paint a real picture of what it's like, we, you know, we would. And it's like, hey, sometimes it's just shitty, man. And you just got it.

Starting point is 00:53:58 Like you said, I love what you just said, by the way, that, that like hit home for me. If it was always like this, you know, am I going to be okay? You know, and that's a great exercise, because that's the truth, like that's really how you have to look at it. What did you learn about yourself during that process, you know, I mean, it sounds like, especially a man who went through loud fighting,

Starting point is 00:54:15 things like that, I know how I react in those situations and probably a little bit different than the average person when they get put in that. What did you learn about yourself when you went through that? Well, I'm a huge introvert, right? So I enjoy silence, I enjoy being in my myself. But you don't come off that way, by the way.

Starting point is 00:54:27 Yeah, it takes practice. If I have my way, I'd be the laptop warrior. I'd be on my computer doing work from some remote location by myself listening to you guys or Joe Rogan or some shit. That's my perfect day. But with my wife, she's the opposite. She thrives off of interaction and talking

Starting point is 00:54:46 it out. And so, initially, I realized, damn, like, and I don't know if you guys have read the five love languages. So what I learned the most was what my what my wife responds really well to, you know, and what I respond well to. So like words of affirmation for me is fucking huge, dude. Like if my wife tells me, you know, I listened to your podcast, it was so awesome. Oh my God, like I feel like I just like came, you know what I mean? Like, yes, you know? I think you're attention.

Starting point is 00:55:13 Exactly, but with my wife it's a affection, like that's the big thing. And then also doing acts of whatever it's called, acts of, I don't know what it is. Kindness, acts of kindness, yeah. Doing things and also just chores, man, just doing things around the house. My wife, like, it's like her birthday, you know, if I do the dishes. And so through all that, you know, we were fortunate.

Starting point is 00:55:33 Me being so plugged into learning and all that thing, all those books and whatnot. I read that book and she did too. And that was an eye-opening experience for us. We realized we were trying to communicate with each other the opposite of what we respond to. You know what I mean? Like, hey, me telling you you do a great job, baby, it worked for her was not doing shit. You know, it's just like, dude,

Starting point is 00:55:52 I don't need to hear that I'm a great mom. Like, that's not doing it for me. I know I can take the trash out. You know, and for me it was like, babe, I just need you to tell me that like, you saw my Instagram post and it was really cool. You know, that was it. That's all I needed.

Starting point is 00:56:04 And so we started to work on that. And it's just been, you know, I think a commitment to understanding that we know very little, right? And that we need to continue to keep our minds open about what marriage really is about. And to work together and communicate a ton, man. Like we need to be talking all the time about what's working, what's not, you know,

Starting point is 00:56:21 reassessing like are we doing the right things. I watched this interesting video on YouTube. It was a really fascinating one. I hope I can find it, because I know people are going to ask me what the, which video it was, but there was a, I think it was a sociologist who was talking about marriage and it's, and how it's changed. And some of the factors that have contributed to the dissolution of it, or at least the destruction of the, of marriage, because, because you're right, the statistics

Starting point is 00:56:45 now show an incredibly high divorce rate. For all intents and purposes, it's falling apart. What they said was, and it was a woman, what she said was that marriage is used to mean a partnership. We're partners. I do my thing, you do your thing, we're partners, we're raising a family. That was the priority. And then it started to change where it became,

Starting point is 00:57:10 I'm marrying you because you fulfill me, and you're marrying me because I fulfill you. And she said the reason why this is a problem is, the expectation. Nobody can fulfill you but yourself. And marriage is a partnership, especially when you have children. And so I watched this video, fucking blew my mind because it's like,

Starting point is 00:57:27 you know, when you're with your spouse, if you guys understand that your partner's first, like, okay, we gotta work together to get this family to succeed. So we're a team and no job is less important than the other. We're doing this together, like we're part of the same team. And then the second part is, if I feel unfulfilled,

Starting point is 00:57:48 I need to be able to fulfill myself on my own because that's a good practice anyway. You shouldn't have to, not only should you not, but if you depend on someone else to fulfill you, that's codependency and that's dysfunctional. And so the video just blew my mind because I think a lot of,

Starting point is 00:58:04 not all because of course there's a lot of shit that goes down. But I think a lot of the divorces from people being like, I'm unfulfilled with this. So I'm just gonna leave. And it's like you could go and have your own life and fulfill yourself and also work on your partnership at the same time. I think too understand that people do change, man.

Starting point is 00:58:18 Like, you know, my wife isn't the same person. She is today is when I met her, right? I mean, things have changed. Which is good. It's just a good thing. Yeah, you want to watch the same person. Yeah, you know, we actually think about it like holy shit I don't want to be the same person. I was you know So why would I expect you know any different from my wife?

Starting point is 00:58:31 You have to you have to appreciate that you know because I look at it as now to I get to experience a lifetime Of evolution with this person right like who is she gonna become? I'm excited to see who she becomes and vice versa, right? And the partnership is is exactly what it is. And it's an intimate partnership, but it's one that, you know, like, when you look at, okay, here's what I do, here's what she does, and you start comparing and saying, well, I should get bonus points for doing this shit.

Starting point is 00:58:59 And, you know, she should get negative points because she said that, like, you can't keep score, man. Like, keeping scores like the worst thing. And I did it initially because that's just like I'm like, you know I knew to this. I don't know what I'm doing You guys have been together for a long time now have you have you put together or found some Relationship hacks. Yeah, help keep you guys really connected So this will be a good one for business owners and you guys can probably relate But what we do now because with kids it's almost impossible to get date nights

Starting point is 00:59:26 when we want it, right? Because like a Friday night, a lot of the young babysitters, they're like out doing their own thing and her parents, they like to go out and they live down in the road from us. So they're there for us when we need them, but we don't want to abuse that, right?

Starting point is 00:59:38 So what we start doing is these day dates, which is we just cut out a work completely. You know, it could be a random day, a Wednesday, whatever, and we say, hey, we're gonna set up babysitting for, you know, that night, and we're gonna spend from early morning when we drop the kids off a daycare to, however long we wanna stay out to get a day drinking is the best.

Starting point is 00:59:55 Yeah, and really just, you know, instead of like the typical, you know, night, night, date, or whatever, where you have to wake up early, take care of the kids the next day, it's like, hey, let's set aside the things that we put so much effort into, which is work and career and building a business and turn off social media, no phone, you know, unless someone needs us to get a hold

Starting point is 01:00:11 of us for the kids and just go do something together for an entire day. That's fucking brilliant, dude. That's what I'm actually brilliant. Save my fucking marriage. I'm not gonna lie to you because we were reaching a point with two kids under the age of two at the time, right? Because my sum was year and a half when my youngest was born.

Starting point is 01:00:27 We were like, do we get no time with each other? They're like, it's scary. You start looking at, when was the last time I had sex? It's like, fuck, I don't know. That's not a good thing, right? And so, the things we enjoyed doing together when we first met, most of what we realized was just like daytime stuff, like simple stuff,

Starting point is 01:00:43 go grab lunch, like go to the movies, you know, go walk around somewhere, go hiking. And so we started to do that, and we just schedule that now. Once a month at least we have a day date, no work, no phones, go do something, we plan it ahead of time, and we just knock out something we wanna do, Matt, it's life changing. That's what we're doing that.

Starting point is 01:00:59 I mean, we have sort of planned a way that, like I don't want her to always identify as mommy. You know? And so for me, like, to get her time to hang out with her friends and then come back has been like game changer as well. So that way she feels like, you know, like, when you could just let your head down be yourself

Starting point is 01:01:18 and like kind of revisit like who you are and then come back and then she, it like fills her up. Do you tell her, Justin, do you go to your wife and say, hey, listen, Friday, I'm gonna watch the kids. Yes. I want you to go out and do the, oh, that's gotta be amazing.

Starting point is 01:01:31 I'll do that and then I'll do that every now and then she'll go to like, Cabo with her girlfriends or whatever. And I'm just like, yeah, dude, take four days or whatever. I'll handle it. Sometimes I'll do it, but it's not like, you do this and I do that. And I'm just like, I know it just benefits our relationship doing that.

Starting point is 01:01:46 Yeah, you have to invest in your spouse. I think you have to do it without any expectations in return. That was the big game changer for me. Oh yeah, babe, I'll go watch the kids. You go get a massage in my mind though thinking, well, I fucking better get a guy's night for this shit. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:02:01 That's not gonna work because she may not be, and this is kind of like you said, you have to understand that your individual thought process and your hurt perception and all those things might not match, right? So if I say, hey, go on a girl's weekend trip with the expectation that when you get back, you're gonna jump into mommy mode

Starting point is 01:02:16 and let me go do my thing for three days. That might not work out like that. It's actually a self, although it sounds logical, it's a self-defeating way of thinking because the reality is if you're truly partners, you live together and you have two kids together, whatever, that if that partner of yours is more calm if they've got, you know, if they feel better

Starting point is 01:02:37 about what they're doing, if they feel like they were able to spend some time away, and now they really wanna be there to do what they were doing with the kids on, that benefits you also. So it's a self-defeating thought process to think, oh, when you get back, I'm going to do my thing and we're going to do tip for tat because it reality benefits both of you either way.

Starting point is 01:02:55 Like, if I'm stressed out and, you know, if my girl says, go relax, man, you're really stressed, you've been working a lot and I come back, she's going to benefit from it too and vice versa. So it's really, you have to look at it that way. Otherwise it becomes this, it's, you know, this whole like we gotta be equal on everything, mentality has really gotten distorted with couples where they start to do that,

Starting point is 01:03:18 where I spend this much money, you spend this much money. I earned this much money, you earned this much money. I do this task, You do this task. Never, never in a million years, will it work that way? No business, no successful businesses ever on that way. No successful partnerships ever worked that way. Nothing's ever worked well that way.

Starting point is 01:03:33 And I would encourage anybody too who's listening, I mean, who's going through this stuff, is this is not something that comes naturally to us, right? This takes a lot of work and it does take a lot of practice. Like you have to be very self-aware, in my setting expectations, even subconsciously, in my expecting something in return for this, am I investing in this hoping to get a positive return

Starting point is 01:03:53 on my investment, right? The partnership relationship is one that is selfless. You need to think of it as, it's not her responsibility for me to be happy. I need to take the bull by the horns and commit to happiness, or I need to take the bull by the horns. If I need something, I need to communicate, right? I can't just expect it to read my mind,

Starting point is 01:04:12 or reciprocate and say, hey, yeah, you gave me a massage. Now, I'm gonna give you a massage. That's not how it works, dude. As soon as you work on that and actively map that out and say, hey, this is what I'm really gonna focus on. I have it in my phone as a reminder. I have, hey, this is how many times I wanna hang out with Like, I have it in my phone as a reminder, I have like, hey, this is how many times I wanna hang out with my wife this year.

Starting point is 01:04:27 And it's only because I wanna get better at it, you know, it's not about being robotic and shit. It's just like, I just really wanna measure this stuff. It's what doesn't get, measure doesn't get managed, right? So you have to do that. What do you think you suck at, like as far as in the relationship, what do you always feel like is your Achilles heel or you're always, this is an easy one for me because growing up and you might be able to relate to it

Starting point is 01:04:48 But I feel like I was an island right so I I felt very secluded very on my own I felt like my parents were fucking nuts and like they're not from here like I'm the normal one right and they don't know What they're talking about and so I would hide a lot of shit from them because I wouldn't want them to give me their opinions on it I wouldn't want them to get jumped out my throat. I wouldn't want my dad to freak out. And so I've developed this habit of not telling everything. That's not lying. It's just not telling everything, right? Like maybe just not sharing a success story or maybe not sharing something that I'm telling. No mountain. Yeah, no mountain at all. It's just I'm so used to keeping it inside, right? I'm so used to harboring my feelings or my emotions

Starting point is 01:05:26 or my successes or failures. And so my wife is opposite. She loves to share everything. She's just all about just expressing what's going on. And I suck at that, dude. I'm the worst. And so it's really awkward when she finds out something that maybe good or bad happened.

Starting point is 01:05:41 And you didn't tell her, and she's like, dude, what the fuck? I know what I mean? I thought where partners like what's going on? I'm like, oh, damn. I saw that. Does she take a personal sometimes? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's, but once again, you know, it comes down to her understanding too that, hey, your size is not perfect, right? Your size, you need to work on this. And it's my decision to be there to help him, to help work with him on this. What do I got to do to help? And it's my decision to be there to help him, to help work with him on this. What do I gotta do to help? And it's my responsibility to own up to it. Like, dude, yeah, I fucking suck, man, my bad,

Starting point is 01:06:09 and get better next time. I think I've had the same thing too. Only I believe my girl struggles with the same thing too. So we understand that part of each other. I feel like your girl's kind of psychic though, Adam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She does have some work. She does have some work.

Starting point is 01:06:23 You're so good at gambling. Yeah, yeah, that's some work. I wish she would help me with that shit. You're so good at gambling. Yeah, she's been some wicked. I wish she would help me with that shit. She also needs a little sage. She's that black magic for some good. God damn it. Yeah, no, I struggle with the same. But part of mine too, I think is a little,

Starting point is 01:06:35 maybe you're like this too, because I can totally relate to the harboring feelings and keeping stuff inside. But some of mine is just, I'm fucking scatterbrained. Like there's so many things that happen in a day that sometimes I literally forget, like for me to recall like all these different phone conversations or interactions that I had with people

Starting point is 01:06:55 and then to tell that story, you know, I'm an open book. If she asked me or she brings it up, I'll tell her whatever she wants here, but you're right, there's sometimes she'll hear it on the podcast and then she'll get mad at me because she'll be like, how come you didn't tell me that story? That happened to you last week and I'm like,

Starting point is 01:07:09 well, I just tell her like, I know you listened to the show, so that's what I do. That's why I pawned it up. One thing for me that I kind of figured out about myself was that, you know, since I'm technically an introvert, right? And all day long, I'm interacting with people, whether it's business, clients, coaching, whatever, right? So I'll teach you out. where's you the fuck out?

Starting point is 01:07:26 So you get home? Guess what I wanna do? Nothing, exactly. Guess what I don't wanna do, talk. Right, yeah, yeah. So it's not that I don't wanna share shit, but it's like, dude, I just exhausted all the personality that I have for the day.

Starting point is 01:07:38 I'm done, I'm turning off. So I got a good question then, for someone who is self-aware enough to know that you tend to want to keep things inside and not necessarily share them. And now you're literally part of your living or your job is to share and talk about things. Has it accelerated your growth as an individual? Has it brought more awareness? Has it been like, what are the challenges and what are the awesome things about it?

Starting point is 01:08:03 Yeah, it's definitely accelerated my awareness about who I am. And also it's accelerated my awareness about what people respond to. Because when you start sharing things and you start talking about, you know, you're what you consider to be your deepest, darkest secrets or fears and whatnot,

Starting point is 01:08:18 you know, you start to get some hate, you start to get some tribe that starts building around that, which is pretty crazy. People start to really relate and they start opening up to you and just sharing things that you're like, whoa, dude, that's crazy. I wasn't expecting that. You start impacting people on a real level.

Starting point is 01:08:34 I mean, people have told me that because of our programs and our coaching, we've literally saved their life, saved their marriage, saved their kids. I mean, and you start thinking, damn, like, maybe the secret, and I don't know, you posted something about utopia or something today, I believe, and a lot of that is just about, you know, how can I be just a human, right? How can I share the things that I go through and just be a damn human being, right? And open up about these struggles,

Starting point is 01:08:59 because truthfully, I mean, a lot of us have these things. But for me, personally, I mean, it hasn't been easy. It's taking continuous practice. I still have to really take a look at like, what am I putting out there? Is this valuable? Am I actually helping someone or am I just giving kind of the standard health and fitness stuff? Or am I going deeper, right?

Starting point is 01:09:17 Am I taking it down further into different levels where we're actually uncovering why people need these things? Why people are driven to do certain things, why I'm driven and the struggle share the experience, the share the victories so that we impact people not just on a surface level, but on a deep mental level as well. But yeah, I mean, like I said,

Starting point is 01:09:36 I think the big eye opening experience for me was when I did open up and I was speaking in front of guys, 200 men all mostly older than me with kids. And I was sharing my experiences. How many tears I saw on the crowd, dude? Like, I was like, dude, a lot of people deal with this. It's not just me. I'm not the only one who thinks,

Starting point is 01:09:54 damn, I had a shitty dad, how am I gonna be a good dad? How am I gonna run a business? I never learned how to do this. How am I gonna be a good husband? Am I never learned how to do that? And you got all these people out there who are like, yeah, dude, I feel that way too. And it just takes. I never learned how to do that. And you got all these people out there who are like, yeah dude, like I feel that way too.

Starting point is 01:10:07 And it just takes the courage to open up and do that. It does. It was a talk that I watched by Jordan Peterson. You actually talked about one of the quotes that I kind of referenced in that post that I did, but what he was saying, he was talking about how difficult it is for people to take care of themselves as if they were taking care of someone that they loved.

Starting point is 01:10:26 And he thought to himself, why is that so difficult? Well, when you really think about it, it's obvious. Nobody knows you as well as you do. And you know all the bad shit you've done, everything, every little thought, every little selfish thing, every little, and all of us are fucking terrible people if we really narrow it down and think about that. If you add that all up, how can you love yourself?

Starting point is 01:10:47 I know when I'm lazy, I know when I'm narcissistic, I know when I say things to hurt someone, I know when I'm stolen or when I've hurt somebody or whatever, I know every single little intricate detail about myself, but when I look at other people, I don't know those things. In fact, for the most part, what I know and because that's all people want to show you,

Starting point is 01:11:05 is the good stuff. And so when I compare that to the other people, it's going to be impossible for me to love myself. And the reason why you saw tears in the crowd, is because you're sitting here, spilling it out, every person in that crowd is crying, maybe partially because they're empathetic to you, but partially, I think, because they're empathetic to themselves.

Starting point is 01:11:24 Totally. And they're like, holy fuck, I'm not alone, but partially, I think, because they're empathetic to themselves. Totally. And they're like, holy fuck, I'm not alone. And wow, I need to be able to forgive myself and whatever. And, you know, it's funny because talking on a podcast, when you, I think when you're on a podcast, at least this happens for me, and I don't know, maybe you can echo this, Josiah, but when I'm on a podcast,

Starting point is 01:11:40 because I feel like it's a higher purpose, like I'm trying to help others with what I'm saying, I'm way more open and honest than I am in I'm surprised to realize the things I say. I'm like, oh my god, I just fucking say that. Can you guys edit this shit out? No, but like you're right because when you when you when you're doing it like I said in the beginning, it was a labor of love. It was because I wanted to you know selfishly obviously hear from really intelligent people, things that could expand my knowledge base, but also have a platform for others to learn and to hear these

Starting point is 01:12:09 experiences so they could get help with, you know, health and fitness, obviously being the number one thing, but other things that lead down crazy roads with all sorts of things that we all struggle with. But yeah, dude, I mean, the talk about the Jordan Peterson factor with helping others, I still come back to the whole idea that it really does take practice, right? You really need to think about, like, hey, why am I not doing this or how can I be better and just measure it because it's not something

Starting point is 01:12:36 that comes naturally to a lot of us, man. Who's been your favorite or most impactful guest so far? Have you had anybody on your show so far where you're just like you left the interview or the conversation? Yeah, actually it hasn't released yet, but it should be out this week. This guy named Anthony Trucks. I don't know if you guys know who Anthony Trucks is. He's a former NFL player. But he was actually an orphan. Him and his, I believe it was three siblings were in foster care up until he was about 15.

Starting point is 01:13:03 But not your, you not your nice foster care. I mean, these kids went through hell. I was in tears listening to his story because I was like, man, just when you think you had it rough, it's like you hear some of these stories dude and you're like one that he share with me and you hear on the show, but these people, these monsters who had them in their custody

Starting point is 01:13:25 would put them in shopping carts and push them down hills, just watch them fall out and laugh these little kids. And it's a hill. I'm like, dude, it got me angry, it got me sad and all these emotions, but his story and dude, where he is now is incredible. Like his positivity is just mind blowing. Like he's such a good dude,

Starting point is 01:13:41 and I've known him now for a little while, but it was just eye opening because he's a father now. He's a husband, successful business guy. He's been in the NFL. He's owned multiple businesses and just his early childhood experience with no parents at all. And then finding a way out and having success, man. It was incredible, man. You know what I like for you to share a little bit about because recently I've done a few interviews or been interviewed on some shows where guys are a little bit younger and getting into the podcast world,

Starting point is 01:14:09 getting into this social media business world. And I feel like there's a misconception right now of what that looks like. And I feel like we've met a lot of people that we've interviewed that don't have this, they don't have millions of followers on Instagram, they don't have millions of followers on Instagram, they don't have millions of followers on YouTube, they fact their network looks pretty small,

Starting point is 01:14:31 but have a very successful business. And then I've met the flip of that a lot, which is guys and girls that have a million followers or hundreds of thousands of people in their network and they don't make very much money at all, shed some light on your experience with that and what you see and what it's been like for you. Yeah, man, I think initially,

Starting point is 01:14:50 when I got into social media, my wife will tell you hilarious story, right? When she met me, she knew what Instagram was all about, but I had no fucking clue. She used to make fun of me, like, why are you, what are you doing, dude? You wanna make money off Instagram? You need to chill out, like, you're not doing anything right.

Starting point is 01:15:06 And so over the past like year and a half with social media, obviously there's been this whole desire from, you know, and everybody kind of shares this, you see what people get marketed to and you know, these business gurus who are talking about, hey, I'm gonna help grow your Instagram to 100,000 followers or I'm gonna show you, I make six figures in 30 days and all this stuff.

Starting point is 01:15:24 Anytime you're running a business that is service-based, you have to understand that each individual person that comes through your virtual doors is really important. You have to put the people and the customers or the potential customers as your number one priority. Assuming you have business system that makes sense, assuming you have operations that can handle customers and you know how to operate a business,

Starting point is 01:15:52 every person that comes to the door, whether you have 10 followers or 10 million followers, it's super important. So we from the beginning put an emphasis on every person we interact with, we want them to walk away from that experience being wild. Right, like, hey, Josiah, he gives a shit about me. Right, like he answers my questions, he's there,

Starting point is 01:16:12 he's the man or his team, whoever is representing my company, gives an experience that is unforgettable, right? And so I stopped giving a shit about how many followers I have. I mean, I just closed down an Instagram account that had like almost 20,000 followers, and I started a new one, because I wasn't happy with the direction that account was going.

Starting point is 01:16:29 I wanted mine to be very personal and very interactive, and it just wasn't that with that account. So I shut down that old account, and I said, I'm gonna start a new, because I really want my account. I don't care if I have 2,000 followers initially, or if I never get to any amount of followers, and I just have 500 people as long as each

Starting point is 01:16:46 Person who interacts with my page or my business and any facet Feels like we actually give a shit right we actually are trying to help you because we are like we actually are and that's the thing I think Because the metric of number of followers is so clear and obvious when you turn on Instagram that people think that that is the metric that that that is the most important one How many total followers you have that's gonna dictate your success? It's not in fact You talk about having an account with 500 followers. You know many businesses would die for 500 customers, right? And so really it's not about the number. It's about the connection you make, you know with these people we know I mean

Starting point is 01:17:24 I can list several pages It's not about the number, it's about the connection you make with these people. We know. I can list several pages that are in the hundreds of thousands and they don't do any, there's a lot of pretenders. There's a lot of business, people who just don't know how to operate a business who are great with social, they know how to market themselves or they know how the angles to take and all that cool stuff. They just don't know how to take an interested person into a customer, they don't know that journey,

Starting point is 01:17:47 how that works, how to build trust. I think that's more common than not. Oh, absolutely, man, I mean, look around. If it wasn't, we'd all be like, damn, look who's driving that, Lambo, look who's driving, I mean, it's just not common, right? I think it's more common than anything else to be self-absorbed because it's just natural

Starting point is 01:18:02 human inclination to say, hey, I care about me, I care about what I'd like to see, right? Like, I'm going to post a picture that I think is cool versus like, you know, we're big on planning around YouTube right now because we see accounts like you guys who have success and we're like, what do people really want to see, right? Do they want to see me changing fucking diapers and driving my kids to school and vlogging?

Starting point is 01:18:22 Maybe the younger generation associates vlogging with something they wanna see, but most of the time people just want something they can take away and actually utilize. They want something that's actionable, that helps them, that goes, oh, light bulb goes off, that's how you do that, right? So I think if you put an emphasis on how can I help

Starting point is 01:18:40 versus what I think is cool, then you're gonna be light years ahead of the competition. Now, I'd be lying if I didn't say I would love to have a million followers on Instagram or whatever. I mean, I have a lot on Facebook, I think we're nearing 20,000 likes or something on my page, which is okay, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna be successful in business.

Starting point is 01:19:00 The habits that you need to have, when you have no followers, when you have five, 10, I don't even know, we have no, it's like 30 out of something on the new page, but the habits you have when you have low followers and the integrity that you have, that's gonna dictate what happens when you do grow

Starting point is 01:19:15 because we'll eventually be huge, I know that. But I'd like our team to have extremely good habits now to where every person, whether we have 10 or 100,000, goes, dude, true transformation to side his team, they get it, man, they're so awesome. They take care of me. Well, I think of it even different, even differently. Like you said, figure out how to help people.

Starting point is 01:19:33 I think of it in terms of, and it's the same thing. I just use different verbiage. It's your value. What kind of value do I bring to the marketplace? If my value is my images, is my pictures, then the price people will pay for that value is just simply follow me, which gets me nothing. It gets me zero. I make nothing off of that. If my value is my content, what I can produce, my advice, my whatever, now the market value increases because it costs more to get that.

Starting point is 01:20:05 So if I'm making that connection with people and people are following me, not for my images, and I'm not saying images don't matter because images do matter, but that's not why they follow you. They now, the market value that is much higher. If I want someone to assist me with my whatever fat loss, I know that's going to cost a certain amount. If I just want to look at someone's pictures, social media has brought the market value of that down

Starting point is 01:20:28 to zero to the point where you just have to buy a magazine for that, now you don't, it's free. So if that's all you're focusing on, you're gonna work for free. You can get a large following, but you have no market value, so it's gonna be free. Yeah, you're gonna win the popularity contest, but the bank account or whatever you're trying to do

Starting point is 01:20:43 as far as your legacy or your financial security or whatever it is, your passion, you want to work and do what you love, that comes down to, like you just said, the value. How much time am I saving people? How much am I improving their self-confidence? How much am I improving their health? Those things are what's going to end up dictating how much you can charge, how successful your businesses. And I've learned, like I said, it's been a learning experience for me. what's gonna end up dictating how much you can charge, how successful your business is.

Starting point is 01:21:05 And I've learned, like I said, it's been a learning experience for me. I thought, well damn, if I get 20,000 followers, I can just put out this ad and people are gonna fucking buy, that's not the case at all. It's really, my business is bigger now, I mean, it's growing month by month, but it's bigger now, I can care less.

Starting point is 01:21:22 I mean, I look at the metrics, but I could care less about the number of followers I have, because I know with what we have in place and our customer support and the things that we do as far as providing value, I know that's gonna dictate growth, right? That's what's gonna get the job done, 100% of the time. Now looking forward, if you look ahead in the future,

Starting point is 01:21:36 where are you going? Because I mean, you're in fitness, that's primarily where you're at, fitness, health, and wellness, but you're also in personal growth. You talk a lot about other issues that are, I guess that you can always put them under the umbrella of total wellness, but they're really not fitness, right?

Starting point is 01:21:52 Where do you see yourself going moving ahead? Yeah, I mean, we're in talks right now, more in the health space. I hired a doctor, PhD in nutrition, actually, to come on my team, because my desire to help people with the mental side of health is a big one. I had an uncle recently commit suicide

Starting point is 01:22:09 and that scares me like crazy because I have two little boys. I know they're gonna grow up in a much different world than I grew up in. So my passion is kind of twofold. One, on one hand I have the generation that I'm a part of. Right, I believe we're millennials. I guess technically I'm a millennial.

Starting point is 01:22:24 Does that as they call it? I think so. What are you born? 85. Okay, yeah, thank you. Yeah, technically I believe I am. Maybe that are generation X or some shit, I don't know, whatever. It doesn't matter.

Starting point is 01:22:34 My point is, yeah. There's two sides of spectrum, right? So I have the side of the spectrum where people like myself, my peers, guys who want more out of life and women, mothers, who can relate to my wife, who go, I don't know where to start. I want to have a better life. I want to be happier, but I don't know what to do. Maybe we push them towards, maybe just take care of your health and fitness, as a stepping stone to improving your life. That's one hand. But I also have this passion for the younger generation too, because partly because I'm a dad, but also because passion for the younger generation too, because partly because I'm a dad, right?

Starting point is 01:23:04 But also because I go, well, I want to have a resource for specifically young fathers who go, I don't know the fuck I'm doing, right? I'm surrounded by social media, surrounded by all these highlight reels and the Jones is trying to keep up with them and I'm kind of lost. I don't know what I should be focusing on

Starting point is 01:23:21 as maybe not aspiring entrepreneur who wants to be a good dad, who also wants to be in shape Having resources for those people so figuring out where is their attention, right? That's really what I'm focused on right now So it's podcasting for sure because I think that eventually radio is gonna be gone and it's gonna be straight podcasting And I do think too that visually

Starting point is 01:23:40 Being on YouTube and whatever other platform allows you to do video is huge with connecting with that audience So our business is really focused on okay, what can we do with our peers right my age group? And then what can we do for people who are 10 15 years younger than us that are coming into this our world right being introduced to us? So they can go okay, well as I become a man or as I grow into an adult and I start to have all these responsibilities How can I utilize health and fitness or how can I have a resource to take care of all these things that I'm supposed to take care of, right? Because I'm lost. I see all these people driving lambo's and tie Lopez

Starting point is 01:24:11 saying this and that. What am I supposed to do, right? So being a little more relatable, keeping a little more raw and real behind the scenes, I think that's where we're headed, man. I think being extremely transparent is the future. I think that- You have no choice.

Starting point is 01:24:25 The more transparent- Yeah, you don't. I mean, but as transparent, like when you, so when I go, I don't know if we should share that. You fucking share it, like that's it. You know what I mean? Like that's my rule now. If I go, yeah, that's kind of too much, share it. Because eventually it's gonna come out

Starting point is 01:24:38 and I'd rather be the one who's leading the charge than being like, oh, whoops, I missed the fucking boat. You know, it's funny, the irony of that is when you're scared to share something, because you're afraid of how it's gonna impact your business or what people are gonna think or whatever, the irony of it is it protects you. More often than not it protects you.

Starting point is 01:24:53 Because then you're so fucking real that, again, if something comes out or if you have enemies or competitors people like you, how are they gonna fuck with you? They can't mess with you because you already talked about that. You already talked about your... You see that a lot, I mean, in the fitness industry, especially, how are they gonna fuck with you? They can't mess with you because you already talked about that. You already talked about your... You see that a lot. I mean, in the finisthenesary, especially, you see people getting exposed, right?

Starting point is 01:25:08 And it's like, well, dude, if you would have just fucking came out and, you know, like, if you would have just said, hey, I stole your gym name, right? Like, you wouldn't be looked at as a corn bowl now. You know what I mean? Like, you would have a little bit more, like, you would say, hey, I got inspired by that.

Starting point is 01:25:22 You're like, thank you. Like, you inspired me to do this. Thank you, man. Like, you know, there isn't any of that. There's just egos, like, no, I got inspired by that. You're like, thank you. You inspired me to do this. Thank you, man. There isn't any of that. There's just egos. No, what are you talking about? I don't know, fuck. It's like I air on the side of, okay,

Starting point is 01:25:33 maybe I share slightly too much, but then you just say, you can't say shit. You can't blackmail me for shit. You can't say I ever did this or I didn't do this or I stole this or, because I already talked about it every possible thing, dude. You can't say, oh, this or I didn't do this or I stole this or I already talked about it every possible thing Dude like you can't say oh well, you know, I know he's not perfect with his wife. I saw them out. They were arguing Fuck dude. I already talked about it like I've already talked about an episode for

Starting point is 01:25:57 Exactly, I know we have a we have a lot of entrepreneurs that I know listen to the show and You're in a very unique place right now where you've already built a successful business that can provide for your family. And I know you have larger goals not to continue to scale that. Talk about someone one, talk about some of the challenges with that and then also share,

Starting point is 01:26:17 I would love to hear what you think has been the most important position or person that you've added to your team to help accelerate that scaling process. Yeah, I mean, you know, along the journey of being an entrepreneur, you know, I flashed back to 2008 when it was my first journey into it. I tried to become a financial planner. I had this whole idea that I was gonna be like the Wolfel Wall Street, right? I was chasing dollars. I was chasing status. You know, I was chasing a I was chasing dollars, I was chasing status, you know, I was chasing a cure for my insecurity, right?

Starting point is 01:26:46 And I crashed hard because the market crashed. I was a 21 year old kid, no role of decks, nobody to sell anything but life insurance too, and I was making nothing, right? I was broke as fuck, and I was living a life way beyond my means, it was a lot of mistakes, right? So I had that experience kind of in the past. And so when I decided, hey, I really want to take

Starting point is 01:27:04 the online fitness business, and I want to get serious about it and I actually want to do it. There was this mentality that I had going into it that I didn't have with the financial planning and that was, I know there's going to be a lot of struggles. I know it's going to suck. Like more times than not, it's probably going to suck and I'm going to question myself a lot

Starting point is 01:27:20 and I'm probably going to have a lot of other people question me too. But no matter what, as long as I'm providing, and as long as my business is growing, and we're doing the right things, and we see future growth, and all these things coming down the line, I'm never gonna give up, never.

Starting point is 01:27:35 Like no one can do shit. You have to fucking kill me to give up, right? And that mentality has served me well, because there's been many nights where I've cried with my wife. I don't have a mother, we're not paying able to pay the bills. I can't pay payroll. I can't pay for my, you know, this, that or whatever over the past few years. And I've been like, that may, that might be it, right? Like I've lost business partners. I had business partners who will remain nameless that fucked me, right? And despite those things, I said, you know what? It happened for a reason.

Starting point is 01:28:03 It's cool. I'm going to continue on where. So anybody listening who's like, damn, man, I'm struggling or whatever, like you have to have that commitment because I think without commitments is something, if you're just doing it to say, hey, I want freedom or I want a paycheck or I want the status, it's probably not going to work. You have to have a commitment something bigger than that. For me, it's a commitment to just me as who I am, who I legacy I am, people show up to my funeral like what they say, right? Like, just I did this, he impacted me in this way. So that being said, I never want anybody to go, well, you know

Starting point is 01:28:33 what? My dad used to be an entrepreneur and fuck man, he gave up, like he struggled. So he said fuck it. He went back to wearing a monkey suit or whatever, right? And so that drives me. Couple with that, I think it's so easy to get distracted, right? It's so easy to, with all the noise and all the marketing and the ads and everything, and it's probably partially why Zuckerberg is shutting this shit down, is that we're bombarded with just temptations, right?

Starting point is 01:28:59 What do we want? Well, we want to be successful. So these ads who go, I'm gonna teach you how to take your online business from zero to six figures in 30 days, it's so easy to get distracted by that. It's so easy to fall into the trap of, oh, well, this isn't working great, so I should try that. And I'm going to try this and that.

Starting point is 01:29:13 And like, before you know it, you've made no progress on anything. So avoiding those distractions, just being straight, like, trying something until, like, see it through, like, just see it to the the till completion, right? That's been a big thing. As far as like,

Starting point is 01:29:27 we're about a position or a person that you've added to the team that you think has been the biggest help as far as scaling. Absolutely. I think the biggest lesson I've learned in the past year and a half is, I'm not good at everything, right?

Starting point is 01:29:38 I'm not gonna be good at everything. I can sit on take courses, I can go to mentorships, I can join masterminds, I can do all that, but I'm never gonna be good at everything. What am I really good at? Connecting with people, coaching, right? I'm really good with podcasting. Those are things that nobody can do for me.

Starting point is 01:29:52 I'm good at writing, blogs, right? And I also enjoy those things. So that's what I need to do. Everything else, I fucking hire someone, right? Because otherwise, sure, I might be bootstrapping and trying to get through it and save expenses and building a business while I don't have all the resources to hire 20 different people. But when I know there's a specific need that we have and I'm not good at it, I need

Starting point is 01:30:12 to at least find a way to get someone on my team that is. The number one hire I've made so far is a PhD in nutrition. I'm saying it's Dr. Adrian Chavez and I brought him in because I really wanted someone on my team who was passionate about the health side of things. It's not that I'm not, it's just I'm not a PhD in nutrition. I don't know everything about cancer, I don't know everything about health and wellness

Starting point is 01:30:34 and all those things I'm passionate about helping people with it, but I don't know everything about it. And so I brought him in and it really just, I mean, our business, I would almost say, doubled overnight, especially with our front end product. Simply because we had a whole nother piece to it that so many people need, right? And they're looking for,

Starting point is 01:30:50 but there wasn't the combination of, okay, just sign us how to get me ripped, but then Dr. Adrian also knows how to get me healthy. There wasn't that, it was too like, hey, lines drawn, it's either you're fucking trying to get a six back or you're doing some gut health thing or whatever, right? There was no like, you know, together,

Starting point is 01:31:07 like this is a team effort, we're doing both. And I think it took a lot of courage for me to hire him because it was a commitment obviously to paying someone. Before that, it was just me paying contractors, like someone to do my graphics, I'm gonna do my website, all this stuff. But once I hired him on about a year or some change ago, it just opened doors to so many new ways to grow our business

Starting point is 01:31:27 and to understand that I'm not good at everything, like I'm not the expert on everything, dude. And now that's translated to me hiring, you know, this past year we hired 12 different people for different projects. And so there are all things that I suck at, though. And I think that's a step that not everybody's ready to take right away with entrepreneurship.

Starting point is 01:31:42 I think you guys know, I mean, straight out the gates, you don't always have payroll like ready to go, hey guys, I'm gonna hire someone for 60 grand a year, it's probably not gonna happen. But as you grow, instead of taking that money that you know deep down inside needs to be invested in people that do things that much better than you in certain areas and say,

Starting point is 01:31:57 no, I'll fuck that, I'm greedy, I'm gonna keep it. Saying, I'm not that great at these things, I need to hire people. And so that, yeah, it's a game changer, man. It's very difficult. Well, it's been, because we've seen you from, makes some incredible changes in growth.

Starting point is 01:32:10 I mean, I remember when we first, you know, connected, I think it was through Instagram. And to see where you're at now with everything, it's pretty fucking cool, man. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And you deserve every bit of success that you have now,

Starting point is 01:32:23 and you're gonna have in the future. So much appreciate it. Thank you, dude. Definitely, definitely. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me, guys. Excellent, brother. Thanks, listen, you can go on YouTube and check out Mind Pump TV,

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 692: Josiah Novak of The Fitman Project Podcast

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