Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 695: Aubrey Marcus Onnit Founder & CEO, Podcast Host & Author Returns

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Would you guys think of that interview we just did with Aubrey? Oh man, that was the first 30 men or 40. I felt like I had a really tough time breaking through. Now, this is the, this is the second time that we've interviewed him. And the first time, you know, that was a little over a year,

Starting point is 00:00:31 what a year and a half ago, almost when we, when we came down here last time. And, you know, we all didn't really know each other. So, and that was, or I felt like we had what 200 less episodes under our belt or more. No, more than that. We were only at, if that was over a year ago, that we're 400, almost 400 less episodes under our belt or more. No, more than that. We were only at, if that was over a year ago, that we're 400, almost 400 less episodes.

Starting point is 00:00:47 So we were really just kind of finding ourselves in our way when we interview. Plus the first time, let's be honest, this was when, you know, Mind Pump started to take off a little bit on it, was a company that all of us, we respected, we saw what they were trying to do. They were trying to bring all these different modalities and things together. And so it was kind of like, oh shit, we saw what they were trying to do. They were trying to bring all these different modalities

Starting point is 00:01:06 and things together. And so it was kind of like, oh shit, you know, we're gonna go hang out and all. There's a lot of things that we have in common, although we're a lot different, there's a lot of things that we do have in common. There's some hype, leave none to it for sure. Yeah, I've got, fuck, I remember how excited you guys were

Starting point is 00:01:19 to come out the first time, I remember having to talk everyone down like, relax, you guys, you never know what it looks like when we get out there. But anyways, the first time I remember having to talk everyone down like relax you guys you never know let's see what it looks like when we get out there but anyways the first time that we interviewed I wasn't I wasn't really happy with my how I interviewed but this time I mean I really felt like I was bringing my A game as far as you had to do it was I wanted to get into I knew there was stuff that I had thought about last time that we talked and I'm like I really want to get in some deep stuff with all because I think that he articulates himself really, really well. And to give us credit, it's hard.

Starting point is 00:01:49 It's very hard because we love to kind of hang out ahead of time, right? We like to kind of get on that level where we can have a conversation with somebody going into the podcast. We just haven't been able to have that yet. So there was that wall ahead of time even going in. Well, one of the hardest parts about interviewing people on a podcast is when people sit down and they know they're being recorded,

Starting point is 00:02:10 there's this front, there's this like, this is, I'm gonna say what I need to say, I'm gonna say what I'm supposed to say, I'm not gonna get to D. All the answers are calculated. Yeah, and that's what it is. And we had this experience with, we've had this before, I mean, what's his name?

Starting point is 00:02:24 Dave Asperg was like that when we interviewed him It was like it felt like can dancers a felt like he was running a commercial and it was hard to break through and it was over the Phone so it was impossible to break through right right and it felt like that for the first 30 to 45 minutes with Aubrey Well, I pride us on the ability to to break through that I think most I think for the most part although every once in a while and Dave asked for his example of an interview Which great guy also, but I just felt like we didn't get beyond the surface I felt that way for the first 30 30 minutes or so it was kind of it was a commercial for his book Which sounds very interesting, but it sounded like that right then you know Adam just Started getting a little frustrated and then we had some real conversation.

Starting point is 00:03:05 I like when I had zero fucks attitude about, you know what? If I'm not going to get to fucking some deeper answers, I'm just going to start interrupting them. This is that interrupting skill, right? It's one of those like change the dynamic or the energy of the podcast. Yeah, it's like when you ask somebody like, hey man, in the last year, tell us something that really challenged you about, and then the answer would be like,

Starting point is 00:03:28 well, everything's challenging, and the world is challenged. It's like, no, fuck her, tell me what, you know what, and you gotta break through. And so what you're gonna hear in this podcast is really two podcasts. The first 30 to 45 minutes is surface stuff, interesting stuff, still some very interesting stuff.

Starting point is 00:03:44 We get to talk about Aubrey's book that will be coming out. And I believe April, if I'm not mistaken, May or April coming up this year. And then the second half, when we start to really talk about Aubrey himself, the man, like get a little deeper, talk about the challenges, talk about the challenges with running a mega company, the challenges with hiring and firing people. He actually talked about how he cries when he cries when he fires. Man, it was really tough getting some of these answers out too because I mean, I know,

Starting point is 00:04:12 I know what it's like to operate something of our size, which is getting to become a large company, nowhere near what on it is right now. So I know all the stress that we deal with and all the moving parts and the challenges and we talk about all the time about when we go back and look back at the year and we say, these are our biggest mistakes. These are the things that we did really well going forward this year.

Starting point is 00:04:35 And so I was trying to get that out because I'm, I'm, I want to know, like, I want to know what it's like to, I don't have 200 employees. Like, I don't know what it's like to run 200, to build something that has 200 employees right now. So I want to know what it's like to have 200 employees. I don't know what it's like to run 200, to build something that has 200 employees right now. So I want you to information. Right, so I want to know that what was going through. And so I was getting, you could hear me trying to.

Starting point is 00:04:53 Well, I want another interview. I want an interview in our house at Mind Pump because you know, it's an interesting vibe when you go to Honet. It's very different. I've been in parts of major companies. I've been in corporate facilities. Well, do you know what? And it's just a very different vibe. Um, it's, I don't know how to explain it. It's, uh, it's just very different. I want to get deeper.

Starting point is 00:05:17 Do you think it's that? Or do you think that when we are in our studio, we have more of our zero fucks mentality? Oh, no, no, no. I, you're in our, we're, we're in so many, we're in of our zero fucks mentality. Oh, no, no. You're in our course. We're in somebody else's house. So there's this kind of respect. Well, no, no, I agree with that. That's not what I'm referencing. Yes, 100%.

Starting point is 00:05:33 I agree with that. But what I mean by the different vibe is I want to get deeper into the vibe at on it. Like I want to talk to Arby about it because, you know, he calls himself, you know, or maybe someone else called him warrior poet. He likes philosophy, he likes speaking in these kinds of ways. And so it almost feels like some of it, the vibe isn't so much people work for him, it's almost like they follow him.

Starting point is 00:05:54 I don't know how to explain it. And I want to get deeper into that because it's very fascinating to me. And so I want a third interview where we can dive into that feel, that vibe of this kind of, you know, where you've got these followers who you also employ, which may be why it's so difficult for him to, to fire people. Like you'll hear in this episode that he talks about.

Starting point is 00:06:14 So, right, right. This is an interesting episode. He's an interesting individual, you know, greatest, great, showed, excuse me, great hospitality. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. But I want a part three. I want to get deeper. I want a part three. And mine pump. Yeah, and mine pump. And you'll hear, you're going to hear a shift in this podcast.

Starting point is 00:06:31 It's very interesting. Very interesting podcast. We had a good time with it. So yeah, without any further ado, you know, you can find it, by the way, obrymarkis.com. He has his own podcast, the obrymarkis podcast. And of course, he's the owner and leader of Onit. So without any further ado, here we are talking to Aubrey Marcus of Onit.

Starting point is 00:06:49 You guys are going to like this one. Well, shit, I guess you put this book in front of us. Tell us a little bit about it. I have no idea what's in here, but I'm looking at the title, Own the Day, so I'm assuming this is about, well, says optimizing practices for waking, working, learning, eating, training, playing, sleeping, and sex. That's a lot of stuff. That's a lot of stuff. That's what a good day looks like.

Starting point is 00:07:09 That's what I have a whole lot of stuff right there. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things I realize is that everybody has these transformational programs, these plans, they're like 40 days to this, 90 days to astronaut, and it just focuses on one thing. And when you get myopic like that, it's a lot of times other things fall out of balance. So to really make changes, it's kind of the principle that on it has, total human optimization.

Starting point is 00:07:31 To really make a change, you need to work all the interconnected things. If you wake up right, you're gonna be more likely to work out. If you work out, you're gonna be more likely to have sex. If you have sex, you're gonna be more likely to sleep.

Starting point is 00:07:41 Everything kind of works in conjunction. So instead of worrying about some 40-day program for this or 30-day program, I'm just saying look, here's what one truly optimized day feels like. Just one day, that's the basic unit of measurement, that's the circadian rhythm, that's waking up, going to sleep, one day is the basic unit by which we navigate life.

Starting point is 00:08:01 Let's get one of those fuckers right, and then go from there. Now, was this tough for you to write? Was this a difficult thing to put together? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. What was hard about it?

Starting point is 00:08:10 Well, a lot of things were hard about it. For one, it was my first book. It's over 100,000 words, and really going at that length and continuing like keeping the same tone, keeping the same consistency. And then there's over like 350 references in there in clinical studies and then breaking it to make sure I'm siding and researching and scouring all

Starting point is 00:08:33 as a PubMed for all of the supporting evidence for everything. And honestly, I learned a lot. You start to shake yourself free of some things that this one person who you respected told you 10 years ago and you've been regurgitating at least internally. And then you go look at the science and you're like,

Starting point is 00:08:48 oh, okay, I was wrong about that and you hone your game. So it's really actually sharpened my knowledge base and skill set and a lot of these stuff. Yeah, one thing I learned, I'd manage large teams and gyms and work with people I noticed that. I learned faster when I teach. Did you experience that? As you were writing this book, did you find that trying to put it down on paper, trying to teach it, forced you to?

Starting point is 00:09:10 Now I asked you really how long it took you to write the book and you said your whole life, but I mean literally from when you started writing it till when it was finished, how long did that take you? That was about 18 months, so about a year and a half. Now was it hard because I can imagine you're somebody who values themselves or identifies a little bit with growth, right? Changing being self-aware. You weren't the same person at the end of the book

Starting point is 00:09:32 as I'm assuming as you were in the beginning. It's true. Was that difficult? Because you want to go back and change it and then I'm different now and I want to. Yeah, I rewrote it seven times. Wow. I literally like, I kept rewriting it

Starting point is 00:09:41 because, and I would go back, it was crazy. I would go back and I'd be like, did a child write this? I was evolving so much as a writer and my voice was getting so much better and my knowledge was evolving and I would literally look back and be like, this is dog shit.

Starting point is 00:09:58 What areas did you see that the most in? I think the book goes through every different section of the day, you know, from, you know, what you do in the morning to dealing with the Hormatic Stressors, right, you know, in your morning routine, the hot and cold, and the breakfast, and all these. I really just found that my writing style, and also the inner play of how I, you know, how I wove the clinical trials in, and how I made everything consistent. That was really the hard part.

Starting point is 00:10:29 And there was always good ideas. I always had good ideas and I always could get poetic. I've been a good writer. I've been writing that way if anybody's followed my Instagram posts or Facebook posts. I know how to convey a message, but how to really create a narrative and still keep it light, keep it informative, not get bogged down in unnecessary details, find unique ways to explain complex topics like the difference between the fluffy load LDL particles and the very dense LDL particles and why one's good and one's bad and make that something that people can consume and not be like

Starting point is 00:11:06 What the hell was that gobbling good? Who are your teachers? Because now you're teaching here But who are your teachers to help you because if we go back now you said you took your whole life to write this book Let's talk about that for a second Start us off in the beginning like how did was that process look like who are your teachers? And how did you learn some of the things that you felt compelled now to put in a book so that you can communicate it to other people? Yeah, it's a great question.

Starting point is 00:11:29 I mean, so many teachers. I feel like everybody is my teacher. I don't look at anyone in particular as this is my guru. Everybody has something to teach, and that's the beauty of what we have here on it. Like a lot of the people you'll see in those books are a lot of the top athletes that we work with, Duncan Keith, Jonathan Taves, TJ Dillesha, and no meat, Bodie Miller in there, Joe Rogan.

Starting point is 00:11:50 And then you'll also meet the other, you know, kind of experts in their field, Mark Sissen, Ben Greenfield, you know, these people that I've run to Patrick, people who I've learned, you know, distinct bodies of knowledge from, and then people who I've learned who've just put amazing things into practice. And of course, myself, you know, distinct bodies of knowledge from and then people who I've learned who've just put amazing things in the practice.

Starting point is 00:12:05 And of course myself, you know, the things that I've tried when I've failed, when I've succeeded. And then there's, of course, the whole research component, you know, all these things that something will pop up on the pub men and be like, oh wow, you know, this is some, this is some shit that we got to talk about. Yeah, but who are your first like mentors? Like, can you name people you were like, oh, this person right here really took me to this level and then, or paradigm shattering moments in my life? Like, and who gave those to you? Yeah, I wish I could just tell you that.

Starting point is 00:12:34 Like, this is my mentor, this is the moment. It's an accumulation. You know, it's an incremental process. And I can't identify there was this one time and this one, one person's key relationships you know I met Bodie Miller and a Vegas party trip and all the sudden you know we became best friends and I learned an immense amount from that dude so I could track it back to that one moment when we met but it was an incremental amount of learning from that guy saying with Rogan saying with a

Starting point is 00:13:02 lot of these different individuals. A key member of the book, you know, Ben Greenfield was a huge ally in creating this book. He's a, he's a, he's a machine. Yeah. He's one of the guys who actually puts all of this shit into practice, like Kyle Kingsbury. He was also really helpful. He came on later. And there's only been a handful of people that I feel like I've truly met that like completely lived their whole life. I live it. Yeah. And that, to me, I think that's where, you know where a crazy level, but you believe them because they actually apply it. Oh, dude, we went to his house

Starting point is 00:13:28 and within 30 minutes, I had a light up, you know, look like a small dildo up my nose. We had red lights shining on our balls. I had some on my head. And he's talking about all the different things that we're doing to optimize ourselves. And, you know, these are all fascinating, interesting, probably have small effects on people,

Starting point is 00:13:48 but when you're someone like Ben who optimizes everything, makes a difference, because he, Well, he's handled the big rocks already, right? The guys address sleep, he's addressed a lot of things in his life that we talk about, I think, nutrition, exercise. Like, I feel like he's done a really good job there. So it makes sense to add all these additional things

Starting point is 00:14:04 to optimize, and I think he does an incredible job about it. You also met Paul Czech recently. What was that experience like? Yeah. Another one of those genuine masters who's put, you know, a lot like this book covers the full gamut of things like one of the things I talk about in the book is the best time to have a drink. You know, it's not trying to say to set some impossible ideal that you're supposed to live in this perfect image of you never to have sugar You never have a drink you never do this. It's realistic It says when is the right time what you can do to mitigate the stress and Paul's one of those guys as well He lives a fully robust life. You can outlive me and Kyle in the gym dude

Starting point is 00:14:40 How did he blow your mind with that? It's crazy. I mean, he's just, he's the accumulation of a lifetime of these incredible choices in this journey. And he's found his own way and he has his own lexicon and his way of explaining it. You know, he's one of the walking masters on the earth. And so, fuck yeah, it's amazing to meet something like that. Yeah, he's probably the clearest embodiment of,

Starting point is 00:15:02 like, I guess, total wellness that I've ever met, but very confident in it. So he's not trying to put it in your face. You just kind of is that way and we were pretty blown away by him. But what drives you? Like, what is your motivation behind doing all of this? I mean, obviously you have a successful business

Starting point is 00:15:19 so someone could say, oh, he just wants to be successful in business, but I don't get that impression. I don't get that impression that you're looking at your business like I'm trying to maximize profits necessarily. It has a different feel to it. What is your driver? What is the thing that drives you to spending a year and a half writing this book and doing all these, you know, running this company and doing all these different things? Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things is, you know, this book is the manual that I wish I had. You know, I mean, I've had a very blessed life and I feel count myself very fortunate,

Starting point is 00:15:52 but I've had a lot of internal struggles that have driven me, you know, and from, you know, from the outside looking in, those are often hard to see, but, you know, issues where I've been depressed, or been anxious, or been, you know, despondent because I hated my job and been apathetic because I thought the world wasn't, you know, the world wasn't fair and all of these things and gotten, you know, sick a lot, had my immune system run down, built imbalances in my butt. I've had all of these things happen to me and I didn't have something that addressed all of these things from someone who I could really, you know, identify with, someone who is real, someone who like did the same things that I did,

Starting point is 00:16:30 like had a drink, had sex, and worked out, and wanted to be healthy, and had a spiritual life and like to meditate. And I think so this is a bit of me just putting together something for all those other knees out there in the universe, all those people who could really benefit for something like this. And that's what drives me, ultimately, I mean, it's once you transcend the ego level of the video game, which is like, look at me,

Starting point is 00:16:57 I'm successful, and that makes me feel good. That doesn't actually do anything in the long run. So you transcend that, and then it's just about what's the impact you can make? Like how many things do you have? Do you ever struggle with that? Because I know I feel like you're a very creative and philosophical guy and then there's this CEO personality

Starting point is 00:17:14 and I feel like you're so unique. I've met a lot of CEOs in my life and not a lot of them have that real creative philosophical side that I feel like you have. But we're not as chill and relaxed. Yeah, do you ever create conflict for you or inner struggle of, I've got this multi-million dollar empire that I'm building, growing and running, and at the same time too,

Starting point is 00:17:34 I have this passion for creative, the creative side. I mean, do you struggle with that? Yeah, every day. I mean, that's the grindstone, that's the point of resistance by which I sharpen my skills. Like, I have to use all these skills in the book. And you look at someone like Ben and it looks like he's got it all together,

Starting point is 00:17:51 but I guarantee anybody who's that driven and does that, they do it first out of necessity because they have challenging factors about their personality, about their nature, about what's going on with them. And those are some challenging factors with me. I overthink things, I overanalyze, I get stressed out really easily, I sleep generally very poorly.

Starting point is 00:18:12 So all of these factors force me to improve, and force me into a better way. I think it's one thing I like about your Instagram is that you will show vulnerability. And I'll tell you why I like that. I think when somebody who's following someone on social media or listening to what they're saying, many times they come across as like they have it all. They're perfect or whatever,

Starting point is 00:18:37 which makes it hard to connect to them many times because they don't seem real. But you tend to share that you have challenges and vulnerabilities. And I think that makes you more real or more approachable, or someone says, hey, I can be like that person. Can you, you talked about some of your challenges? Can you talk about some of your biggest challenges, either coming up, or recently that you've

Starting point is 00:18:57 had to overcome or that have pushed you into the person you are now? You know, a lot of them surround, you know, I talked about some of the physical ones, right? Like I've battled with depression and battled with anxiety. I've battled all different forms of kind of fear, manifesting, you know, fear of letting others down, fear of letting myself down, fear all of these. When did you have the depression? What did you do?

Starting point is 00:19:19 How did you handle that? Well, that's a big one. That's a big one. And then that one came from really having, this feeling like I had a mission in life and I wasn't fulfilling that mission. I wasn't actually doing what I was here on the planet to do. Which was probably driven by an insecurity or you that from that's,

Starting point is 00:19:37 well, it was for the back, right? Yeah, but it was also, in some part it was true. I wasn't doing it. I was working in a job that I didn't, that I wasn't happy with and I wasn't doing it. I was working in a job that I wasn't happy with. And I wasn't actually doing it. I was trying to do the things, but I wasn't actually

Starting point is 00:19:49 succeeding in any particular way. But what was missing was the time frame, the perspective, that where I was was fine for the time that I was there, and I would one day get there. What I was missing was faith. Instead, I was looking at right now like, I know I can do more. I know I have more to give. But I wasn't trusting that if I was missing was faith. Instead, I was looking at right now, like, I know I can do more, I know I have more to give,

Starting point is 00:20:05 but I wasn't trusting that if I stay the course, if I stay the path like that. When was that ultimately? Was that before on it? That was the period before on it. That was really probably the hardest, the hardest emotional period for me. But I talk about a moment in this book

Starting point is 00:20:21 where even working in that job that I hated, I switched my mentality and I realized, okay, I'm doing this just to scratch together enough money so that I can start the company that I really want, which is on it. And so, that mental framework actually drew me out because instead of just being like, here I am doing this thing I hate when really I know I have something much more I could do, I was like, here I am doing this thing I hate when really I know I have something much more I could do, I was like, here I am doing this thing I hate so I can get the money so I can do the fucking thing I love. And as soon as I made that mental switch, then all of that negative stagnant energy kind

Starting point is 00:20:56 of formed into this positive motivational energy. And I was able to start this company, which ultimately would create the channel that I could release. How many years ago was that? That was seven years ago. How long did that last before you made that mental switch? How long did you have to... I was pretty unhappy from probably...

Starting point is 00:21:18 It was about four or five years, from 26. Right out of college, 24 to 26, I was still pretty excited and then you know, some bad shit and business happened and I got terminated even though I'd done a good job and it was just really dark time for me and that kind of kicked off this, you know, the world doesn't, you know, the world doesn't reward, you know, success and hard work. The world punishes it. And I got you felt that I felt that and I felt and that put and I was like, I know I know I'm here for more. And I would use like things in my head like I was 26 of the time.

Starting point is 00:21:55 I was like, fucking Alexander, the great conquer the known world to 25. These dot com people, oh, wow, millions of dollars. And here I am doing fuck all just got fired at no plans. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. And I know I should be doing more, but I wasn't. So I would go back and I'd live, you know, looking in the mirror and in the rear view, looking at my life, where did I fuck up?

Starting point is 00:22:15 How did I go wrong? Did I go to the wrong school? Did I make the wrong choices? Am I partying too much? Like what have I done wrong? Instead of just saying like, it's all right, man. They're in the lesson, stay the course,

Starting point is 00:22:26 focus on the internal process, get better and something will change. What was the impetus that finally switched that off for you? Because that is a very difficult space to leave. Because when you're in it, especially for you said four or five years, when you're in there,

Starting point is 00:22:40 it starts to become all you know. And that's just it affects your relationships, probably surround yourself with people that strengthen that belief that you have in yourself And that's just it affects your relationships, probably surround yourself with people that strengthen that belief that you have in yourself. Yeah, I like, you know, if you feel that's what you are, you start to attract people that kind of strengthen that because your ego wants to strengthen this belief.

Starting point is 00:22:56 And was there an impetus? What was it that caused you to make that switch? I think there was always that drum beat, you know, and there was always the other counter side to that that I could hear in the quiet when I got still enough. And that was a drumbeat of, you're gonna do it, it's gonna happen. And I think a variety of different practices where I learn to get still enough to actually like listen to that drumbeat and then have a few little ticks of momentum go my way, like meeting Bodhi on that party trip.

Starting point is 00:23:26 I mean, I met him at one of my darkest times where I really felt like I didn't have a friend that I could fully connect with, that like fully met me, you know, where I was. And obviously he was almost like a little bit of an older brother, you know, in that regard. So even I, he's even better because I got to learn more from him,

Starting point is 00:23:41 but we were still like friends, like real meaty friends that um... Did you lack that at the time? Yeah, but were you like a kid? Yeah, as a kid, were you popular, do you have a lot of friends? Yeah, I had a lot of kids in high school, so... Yeah, a lot of times of acquaintances, I was, you know, a great basketball player and, you know, had honors in the state and whatever, so as an athlete and, you know, someone

Starting point is 00:24:00 who liked to be social and party, you know, I had a lot of acquaintances and through college, I was social lot of acquaintances and through college of social chair of my fraternity. Like it wasn't like I wasn't surrounded by people, but having someone who on that level of consciousness really felt like saw me and saw beyond the superficial, I didn't really have that type of friend and then, you know, I met Bodhi and part of that was, you know, also me being ready to meet somebody like that, reading the books, doing interesting things, going on my plant medicine journeys, being the type of person that I could meet Bodimila

Starting point is 00:24:31 who's lived an extraordinary life and gone through extraordinary experiences from being young himself and doing all the crazy things that he's done, being the type of person that could meet that guy and have us both look at each other and be like, yo, like we're homies, like we haven't met yet, but I can tell that we're friends.

Starting point is 00:24:49 Is he like the guy that if you just were ready to strangle someone at work today, you're frustrated, like he's the one you call and kind of vent to and kind of keeps you even or like, he's got four kids and seven dogs and four cats. Do you don't want to burden him? So is that hard to handle? We actually don't get to stay in touch.

Starting point is 00:25:02 He was there was a period where that was my dude. And now it's probably Kyle, one of these other friends. And I've been so fortunate now that I've met many, many, many more people who are like-minded. And that's, when you put out your message consistently and loud enough, you'll attract like-minded people. And you'll run into more of those like-minded people. That same experience happened with Kyle at Paleo.

Starting point is 00:25:25 You know, like we go through, and we're just bouncing around, meet 200 people that day, and then Kyle comes up, it's like, oh shit, we're brothers, now we're meeting, though, that's awesome. And then, you know, so that type of experience happens, and you just start to add to this feeling of being part of a real tribe. And that's the biggest support system you can have.

Starting point is 00:25:47 It's a feeling part of a tribe. Do you operate with that kind of a mentality where you feel something, it's a gut feeling, boom, we're gonna do this. After I mind fuck myself for like days, hours. Just question. I wish, I wish, I go back and forth, back and forth weighing this, weighing that, premeditating the worst case scenario

Starting point is 00:26:07 over and over again, imagining what I said, how I said it. You know, I used to even do that with friends and stuff. Like, man, if I screwed up a goodbye handshake fist bump, I mean, I would obsess over that. Oh, man. Oh, okay. Okay, I was never gonna talk to me again.

Starting point is 00:26:22 I fucked up that fist bump. I'm like, haunted. You know what I'm again. I fucked up that fist bump. Yeah, like haunted. You know, like, I just had that kind of obsessive side. And of course, next time, like, you know, and it would pass, but I would torture myself for two hours over a flubbed handshake. You know, like, that was gonna fucking matter. You know, I can count a million incidences like that,

Starting point is 00:26:42 where I've just my obsessive mind got in control, which is probably why I've been obsessed with ways to quiet the mind, because my mind's a mother fucker. Is that how you got into more like spiritual practices, or like do you consider, do you have any of that in your book, by the way, or? You know, we went light on it. We went with some mindfulness practices that I think are really important and tried to fit those into, you know, an optimized day and certain things, like the Wim Hof breathing, we go into that.

Starting point is 00:27:06 It's certainly a really powerful state shift. I go into a practice that I learned from the books by Tom Brown Jr., who's this Native American train tracker. And he has a mindfulness that's really quick. It's called the wide peripheral gaze where everybody can try it now if you like, as long as you're not driving. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:24 When you can close your eyes and do it driving, but you as long as you're not driving. Yeah. Close your eyes. You can do it driving, but you have to have some practice for it. So you leave your eyes open and you just focus on expanding the amount of visual input that you can possibly get through your eyes. So you see everything in the corners of your eyes, you're tracking all movement but focusing on nothing. And you just allow yourself to focus on nothing and absorb, absorb absolutely everything. And it actually works on the opposite way that a sensory deprivation tank would, like

Starting point is 00:27:53 sensory deprivation restricts all the information from your brain. So that part of your brain goes to sleep. In this case, it overloads your brain with bits of information coming in from your eyes that it's not used to see your part of it, but you're not interacting with it. So that part of your mind gets distracted and you start, it's like the fidget spinner for that part of your mind who likes to focus on things and then you get to relax and still. Yeah, there's a lot of information that we simply do not perceive. So when you even let in a fraction more, it can be extremely overwhelming

Starting point is 00:28:26 and even terrifying for some people, even just to perceive just a tiny bit more. It's funny when we do videos for YouTube or we do sales videos and we got to read scripts and I'm doing this video, if I'm just in the moment doing what I'm doing, I don't screw up, I keep going, it's no problem, very natural. The second I start to listen to myself talk, that self-analysis, the second I split myself into me, and then this other me that's watching me, I fuck up, and I feel like that's the root of a lot of people's, or at least maybe even people like yourself, that's the root of a lot of some of these issues like anxiety. You mentioned anxiety. Was that something that you experienced during this period of depression? Or was that something you constantly challenge or feel like is challenging?

Starting point is 00:29:12 I think that's been a more constant ghost that's haunted me. I think that's stress, anxiety, that fear of something happening that I haven't, you know, I haven't tracked. And I think that's something that has been a harder demon to slay, you know, in a lot of ways. Because, you know, with the depression, I really think the moment you start taking the focus off yourself and focusing on the impact you're having for other people and just relying on doing your best,

Starting point is 00:29:42 like a lot of that starts to lift. But the anxiety when, especially when you have a company like this and have expectations and attachments and desires, I want to succeed, I want to be healthy, I want all these things, and my mind has the tendency to explore all the ways that that could get screwed up. Then that's a more challenging thing to deal with. But, you know, with that challenge comes ways to make adaptations. That's what I want to talk to you a lot about that, because I think it's super fascinating, sitting down here with you, and seeing what you've built here, and what you've been a part of,

Starting point is 00:30:16 and responsible for a lot of. What is it like running something this big with this many employees? And it almost feels like I know it's seven years so probably for you it feels like it took forever or a major grind but it almost seems like overnight that you guys became exploded in huge and you guys are obviously one of the most dominant fitness companies out there in the space what is that like for you managing all those people and what do you struggle with the most? I think I struggle with the expectation of what I want to happen and what is happening, because that's where the torture lies.

Starting point is 00:30:50 If I was able to really just, it's also where some of the vision and the motivation lies, so it's a bit of a double-edged sword. But I can look at where we are and we've been growing every year, actually had some record growth compared to the last four years this past year. And I, I can look back and from that perspective, just see all the things I fucked up. And so I can look at that and be like, man, on it is blowing it. Share some of those, dude. That's what I want to, I want to hear you share some of the things that you openly fucked up. It's similar to the way that I looked back I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on.

Starting point is 00:31:25 I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on.

Starting point is 00:31:33 I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on.

Starting point is 00:31:41 I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. I just got it on. in that packaging, you gotta be fucking kidding me, that's not even legible. Like, how did I let that slide? Or the way that we're marketing a page, that was how we describe that thing, that's juvenile. How did we, and I think as your ignorance, hopefully, is on a ever-arching dissipation

Starting point is 00:32:00 to a certain degree, at least in certain areas of business and marketing and supplement knowledge and product knowledge and movement and self discovery, all the things that I'm attempting to grow at constantly. As that knowledge expands, you can look back from a different perspective and see all the things you would have done different in the ways you could improve. So, there's not a lot of particular, I mean, that packaging is one example. We revamped our packaging over this last year

Starting point is 00:32:25 and end the process, or when I see one of the old things, I will literally look at it like, man, we saw. You know, like, good thing we got our shit together. I feel like that's such a surface answer though. I feel like you've gotta have some stuff because people, bro, are way more difficult. You can't bullshit me and tell me that packaging has been your biggest fucking headache

Starting point is 00:32:44 in the last year because I know that if you're running with 100-something employees, somebody you've wanted to launch out this fucking window, someone you just want to throw in your buddy out of the house. Right, right, you wait too nice. I was just mind-pup, bro. You say, what the fuck you want right now? Tell us about John. Tell us about that kid that you fucking about throughout the door, you know, I know there's way more stress in that. Well, man, I've had all kinds of crazy shit. I've had people accuse me of wild outlandish things, making sexual advances.

Starting point is 00:33:12 I saw that. Oh, shit. Did you see that on Instagram? Well, down really quick, too. Yeah, let's not mention his name. Right, right, right. You didn't even like it, but I didn't see that. A male, a male employee who worked in the fitness area,

Starting point is 00:33:26 hadn't seen him for two years, had hardly any interaction. Obviously, Peter, about something not going his way. Something, I mean, it wasn't even my department. So I like, I didn't even like, I had almost zero interaction, comes out of the blue and saying that I'm ruining his life. And the reason I'm ruining his life is because he refused to have sex with me.

Starting point is 00:33:43 There we go. You're like, beating the hook. You're like, that's not true, we had lots of sex. ruining his life is because he refused to have sex with me. There we go. What? The eating the hook. Huh? Like that's not true, we had lots of sex. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even flirt with you, bro.

Starting point is 00:33:51 You didn't. I am. I'm from. You know, like just out of the book. Like maybe my type, I wouldn't fuck you, bro. Yeah, yeah. He said some about some cult or something. I'm not.

Starting point is 00:34:00 I wasn't. He went on. He went on. I can do way better than you. He went way on. And it was like one of those't aware. He went on. I can do way better than you. He went way on. And it was like one of those things, you know, my mind obsessively worries about it. I've been expressing that never in a billion years

Starting point is 00:34:13 what I have imagined this. So then it just like recalibrates my level of fear instantly. It's like, wow, makes you some- In-possible. That just can get a nowhere. Yeah. Out of the fucking ether an asteroid that was hidden behind another thing and just boom reveals itself into orbit and strikes it's like that can fucking happen

Starting point is 00:34:34 you know now so now that was a choice and it's actually like almost a straw that broke fears back to a certain degree is I realized like I couldn't possibly see all the things that could fuck this up. And so I almost affected it. It affected me very positively ultimately. At first it was like this is fucking horrendous. And then it was like this is a super blessing because this is so random and so initially shocking

Starting point is 00:35:02 that I can't respond to fear the same way I used to. I have to surrender not only my expectations of success, but my expectations of my identity and my reputation. I don't actually have control of anything. And I have to just be more okay with that. And I think I can really mark that as like a really key point that happened this last year of something very beneficial that came from something that was at first just shocking and terrible.

Starting point is 00:35:31 Yeah, you have to make friends with, I've learned even with anxiety, you've got to make friends with what's happening, fighting it almost adds another layer to things. If I'm anxious about it being anxious where I'm worried about something that anxious, or I'm worried about something that's happening, and I'm worrying about being worried, and what's gonna happen just makes things so much worse

Starting point is 00:35:50 and so much harder to manage, that it can become unmanageable, especially when you become a target, which if you grow and do everything you wanna do, you also become a target, right? There's a lot, people can get popular, fucking with you, which has got to do, you also become a target, right? There's a lot, people can get popular fucking with you, which has got to fuck with your love by itself. I'm sure there's a bit of the motivation there.

Starting point is 00:36:12 You guys have a ton of revenue streams coming in here. What do you think you guys are doing really well, and then what do you think you're not doing really well? You could do better. Obviously, we can always do better on everything, What are you doing? What are you kicking ass at? What are you suck at? I think we're really doing a good job at making the kind of like-minded people stoked. If you're generally into being a little bit better tomorrow than you are today, if you're generally into some level of fitness, some level of optimization, some level of finding that kind of motivational drive, probably slightly

Starting point is 00:36:46 interested in MMA, slightly interested in mainstream sports. Like, our demographic is tight. And those people are stoked. And I think that's the best thing that we've done. We've created something that people emotionally feel positive about. We put out a lot of positive information, a lot of videos that have nothing to do with any of our products, articles that have nothing to do with any of our products, things that make people feel a certain way and feel motivated to live a little better, be a little happier,

Starting point is 00:37:13 enjoy life a little bit more. And that's what we've done well. What we haven't done well is cater to people who aren't paying attention to that, who aren't our natural demographic to, you know, our female demographic is too small. Our demographic of people over 40 is too small. You know, we really need to translate on it, because on it's for everybody. It's not for a certain type of people, but we haven't translated that to the other, you know, demographics, the other types of people out there to make this a real worldwide universal movement rather than, you know, a strong niche movement for a certain type of person.

Starting point is 00:37:49 Let's talk about the female demographic. Why do you think that you're not connecting with them like you could be, and how would you connect with them? Well, I think that it's not that the females that follow us aren't stoked like they are and I think part of the part of the issue is that we're not getting in front of enough eyeballs are influencers the podcast hosts are male largely because podcast hosts in general are male that's been our biggest channel

Starting point is 00:38:18 you know and podcast listeners skew dramatically male and our MMA fighters we have some female MMA fighters, but even the female MMA fighters, you look at their demographics and they're more male followers. They're more male than us and everybody we have is, you know, as male followers. Whether it's an athlete, they have mostly male followers, whether it's a good looking influencer who's an athlete or somebody else or, you know, so there's still have male followers.

Starting point is 00:38:46 I actually honestly don't know who females follow other than cats, like I don't know. I can't everybody, everybody, everybody in a row. I can't see, everybody in our audience you know has largely male followers that represent somebody around. Get a fucking cat dude. No, right here.

Starting point is 00:39:00 Get a resident cat. What about more specific like, you know, when you look at your Facebook, your YouTube, the podcast, you have going like, you know, what have you learned about that? Because I feel that that's a big part of our business. I feel like we're continuing to learn. There's things I look back and I go,

Starting point is 00:39:16 fuck, I wish I would have done that differently. We're still not doing really well in these areas. We're doing better here. When you look at all these different top of the funnels for your guys' business, which ones you you feel are sounds like the podcast is really successful but what about everything else? Well the podcast is successful in that the content is really good and the people who listen to the podcast really it makes a dramatic impact in their lives and that's both my podcast, Aubrey Marcus

Starting point is 00:39:40 podcast, the on-it podcast, the Kyle runs like both of those you know the listeners are fucking stoked. And that's what we've done a good job in. But again, it's that outreach. Like, how do you get listed on iTunes listings for something? I don't know. What's the algorithm?

Starting point is 00:39:55 I don't know. I just keep putting out good content. Nobody knows, you know? And so some people, it seems like they've consistently cracked that code and get that benefit of being exposed. And some people don't. And I don't really understand enough yet to really understand. Do you put a lot of energy towards researching that? Figure that out, or do you really?

Starting point is 00:40:14 Not really. And that's part of the thing. We're doing so many things that it's rare that I can really be a laser, like I did with this book where I can really hone in on one thing, and I'm generally a lantern. I'm like, if I'm a grow light and my attention is what causes things to grow, I'm rising as high as I can in the air and casting a big light.

Starting point is 00:40:36 And only every once in a while do I get to turn into a flashlight and then really focus on one thing, like on the day, which is. Or a flashlight. Yeah. I spent my days focusing on one of those. But like this, this is probably why, when I've signed these books and described, like all the right there, like,

Starting point is 00:40:55 hey man, I hope you enjoy this book, it's probably the best thing I've ever done, because this is the thing that I've been able to focus on the most, probably ever. I mean, on to focus on the most, you know, probably ever. I mean, on it is an amalgamation of many, many things like this book is tangible and you can hold it in your hand. And this is like your perfect archetypal day. And that's pretty much sums up. That's it. That's it. This is absolutely how to live the very best day as a human being you can possibly live.

Starting point is 00:41:25 What if you put this book on it doesn't do well? That's a beast, right? I mean, I had a, you know, I'm publishing through Harper and they have high expectations for the book. Everybody who reads it has high expectations for the book. And so, publisher, so this is not self-published. No, you know, that's going through Harper. There is a little more pressure with that.

Starting point is 00:41:42 Oh, hell yeah. Oh, hell yeah. And, and everybody, you know, everybody has really high expectations and I don't That's going through hard work. There is a little more pressure with that. Oh hell yeah. Oh hell yeah. Everybody has really high expectations and I don't know if the book's going to sell. I know the book's good. So when I obsess and I worry, then that's what I panic about. And that's how it is a book in a cell. How are we going to get it out there?

Starting point is 00:42:01 The book store is going to buy it, blah, blah, blah. And then when I relax, and I actually feel okay is when I say, you know what, I did the very best I could with this. There you go. I never took a shortcut. I never did do another rewrite when I could have done another rewrite. I never didn't go down that rabbit hole because I was too lazy to chase it. I didn't cut it short on one of those bleary eyed nights where I had to make a deadline so the whole thing worked. I know that I did

Starting point is 00:42:30 the best I could and I just try to focus on that and not get blown away by the expectation. Did you actually chip away at this year's solver? Did you have a ghostwriter help out? I had somebody who was helping me out. Neil's Parker was awesome and he was really like a mentor in the process and helped a lot with structure and helped me kind of turn what I was used to writing which was shorter form into longer form. But this is me man, this is my voice throughout it. I would say 90% my original writing and you know he was great at kind of connecting some dots, putting the connective tissue but I put all the organs in this body. I made my outline, was 140,000 words or something like that. And then he helped me kind of condense it

Starting point is 00:43:11 into a tighter, 100,000 words. But again, after everything he wrote, I combed through rewrite, change words. I literally, I knew I was going to speak this book. I mean, I'm gonna narrate this book. And I wanted to make sure every damn thing in there sounded like me because when I would read it to myself and it sounded like him, let's say you put in a paragraph

Starting point is 00:43:30 of connective to it. And if I heard his voice in that paragraph when I was reading it, it just felt gross. Like, because I'm a writer. Like some people who aren't writers, of course, hire a writer, it's gonna be a better book, but I'm a writer. Like I've been a writer my whole life.

Starting point is 00:43:45 I've been writers since I was two years old, sitting on my grandma's lap making her type out stories. You know, like this is what, part of what I'm here on this planet to do. So I had to make sure that everything here was soaked to the bone. Now what if, what if the opposite? I don't sell challenge you on what if it sucks?

Starting point is 00:44:01 What if it blows up? Yeah. And this feeds a passion of yours and it really does. I might distract now from you. Do you ever think about that struggle you may have with? No, riding wins. Oh, riding wins.

Starting point is 00:44:14 I know that's a no-brainer. Riding wins. I know that this is. What's in this place up, or what? Pass over to Kyle? No, that's good. That's good. I'm just kidding, bro.

Starting point is 00:44:23 I love you. That's probably the best option actually. I would just love to see what this office look like if Kyle got his hands on it. Get a grassy handle on it. And grassy handle on it. And wind. That's awesome.

Starting point is 00:44:35 You know, I never tried a Kyle in my life. It's a good problem. Yeah, we go way back. Sure for sure. A closet full of speedos. Yeah. You know, ultimately, yeah, ultimately, I think there's a natural transition that's going to happen where I'm going to be more and more a writer. I already know the next four

Starting point is 00:44:53 books that I'm going to write. And I know that I'm going to write those. And that's, that is the priority above everything. You know, that's just what, it's what I'm here to do. Ultimately, it's, I've always known that that but I've also known that I wanted to Build a platform and I wanted to create something and I wanted to also be a leader of a movement like this and to start out as a writer with no platform Is a really hard thing to do, you know, and um, but this is this is me actually, you know I have a course called going for go for your Win. This is me going for my win. So would you consider selling this? That's an interesting question.

Starting point is 00:45:30 I think you raise a baby. Would you consider letting another parent raise it? Well, if that parent felt like it had the same values and ideas and kind of character that you had, then you could consider. First, probably be like, ah, I don't know about moving in, but eventually, yeah, eventually on it will reach a maturity level where somebody else could be the custodian of that. I don't see that I'm a necessary part. I need to establish it, create enough momentum, and then make sure that the people

Starting point is 00:46:01 who follow in my way carry that torch and carry it forward in an honorable way. So I wouldn't say that it's out of the question. That's interesting that you say that instead of being valued at a certain amount, which is the typical CEO answer, I feel like, well, once I get it valued at a certain point, then it makes sense for me to sell it.

Starting point is 00:46:18 Yeah, you care more about who's gonna take it and raise it from there. Of course. I mean, I'm at kind of, I'm very close to that level of, you know, wealth where I'm very comfortable with what I have. I mean, I'm still striving, you know, still striving for more. I like money.

Starting point is 00:46:34 I like the energy that it provides. I like the freedom that it provides. I like being able to do stuff, help people out that I love. I have a charity cause that I'm super passionate about right now. And I love being able to do stuff like that and I love enjoying my life, you know, so but the evaluation that on it already is and the valuation that it will be that difference is a very small gap in happiness even though it's a very big number when in zeros and

Starting point is 00:47:01 So you know, I'm already I'm already there to a certain degree. So the most important thing for me is to leave that continued positive legacy and get to a place where I'm really comfortable and can really do kind of what I believe I'm here to do, which is right books and be your podcast. A lot of times I'll tell people that it's important for us to love our ideas but not marry them.

Starting point is 00:47:24 Do you feel like part of that too is maybe driven from insecurities that you feel like, who cares if someone else takes this thing? Sure, you've left your mark, you've already did something amazing and beautiful, you've changed a bunch of lives. You, if this is really your passion is moving forward in the book area, what does it really fucking matter

Starting point is 00:47:40 who comes behind you and in reality, nobody's gonna do it the same way that you would do it? So, yeah, I mean, I think I just, you know, this is a big part of people's lives, on it is a big part of people's lives. I wanted to continue to be that thing that when you leave for a little while, you know, like, you know, when you go,

Starting point is 00:47:57 you have a restaurant that you love and you go out of town and you come back and there's new management. Sure. It's just like, oh, food just kind of sucks here now and the atmosphere is not the same. And it's just like, man, food just kind of sucks here now. And the atmosphere is not the same. And it's just like, man, that's a bummer. That was one of my favorite parts about this city.

Starting point is 00:48:09 Like I don't want on it to ever be that experience. God, is it inevitable though? Like, no one's gonna come. God, that's tough. That's tough. Let's be honest. I mean, it's a monster to keep it running this way. It's a monster to keep everyone on the same vision.

Starting point is 00:48:22 You're already a very unique type of CEO, like it is. Sure. Stepping away and thinking that some other guy, or girl is gonna come in that and keep that exact same vision going, you're almost setting yourself up for some stress later, to happen. Maybe, but then I meet somebody like,

Starting point is 00:48:35 we just met and made a partnership with Exos. And that's one of the top sports, go from companies. I meet somebody like Mark Verstiegen. And I look at him and if he was like, yeah, man, I'll take over on it and just give us a year of transition and whatever that aligned it, I'm not making a pitch for that or trying to make that happen.

Starting point is 00:48:54 That's not even part of the fucking plan. But I'm saying that guy of that caliber, of that quality, of that character, you know, yeah, he would take on it and it would be a little bit more Mark than it is Aubrey, but it would still still be fucking dope because he's a dope human being. What attributes would you want in the better version of yourself? So if you were to leave this and we're getting a better version of Aubrey coming in behind us, what attributes would you want him to have?

Starting point is 00:49:16 I mean, it's just a consistent application of love for the people inside the company. That's you, bro. That's already you. Come on. You're such a big lover. But everybody has their own flavor. Yeah, everybody has their own flavor. This isn't even more love.

Starting point is 00:49:30 It's not even love, bro. He keeps doing it. He's a lover to crack a whip maybe. So, yeah, there's some people off the window. I don't know. Yeah. But that's the thing that would have to be the unifying fact. And then all the other intricacies of that would come with whoever that new person was.

Starting point is 00:49:47 Marks a natural coach. I'm a� of a motivator. Marks a coach. So he would be coaching people more. And it would have this more like it would just change to a passion for leadership maybe. Yeah. I inspired like I'm more like I said, like a motivational speaker, like I can deliver the game time, you know, speech,

Starting point is 00:50:09 so can Mark, but I just feel like he's more of a coach and I'm more of like a motivator and he would so, like even when we're in a workout, you know, like the way that he encouraged everybody around him when we were in this group workout, like, come on man, you got that, like I'd rather give a speech before the whole team to the whole, you know, about why it's important to motivate, not sit there during every rap and say,

Starting point is 00:50:30 come on, give it your best, you got this, you know, that's just not me, it's not my flavor. Yeah, you know, but that's his flavor. And so he'd be able to add that flavor and his knowledge base and and everything else. So I but but he loves people and that's his way of expressing the love. I have my way of expressing love. How would you rate yourself like on a one to 10, as far as the crucial conversations, the one on one, the hard conversations, letting somebody go or motivating somebody to do a job better? It's probably one of best at that, and then product conception.

Starting point is 00:50:59 You're such a love person. You're such a love person. Well, I connect with people. I see people. You know, and I think it's, if you're in any of those situations and you don't, and you shut yourself off, which is a tendency, you want to do that because then it hurts less because you stop those mirror neurons from firing so you don't feel their pain. Like when I'm letting someone go that's contributed a lot and they start to get emotional, I start to get emotional.

Starting point is 00:51:22 I'm there with them. Like, I'm not pretending that I'm gonna shield myself from this and be all social. I do have a prior firing so far. Yeah, almost every key fire that I've had. I did, you know, we made a transition in the company and we let a couple people go the same day. And I cried every one of those fucking meetings,

Starting point is 00:51:42 like, back to bike, am I gonna fucking get emotional again? But it's out of gratitude. It's like thank you for what you've contributed. And when people see that, you know, it's just you being real. It's not you sugar-coating things. It's not, wasn't me having this agenda and playing this out and being all corbers like,

Starting point is 00:51:59 man, thank you for being this. We're going this way. You know, your skill set doesn't fit with where we're going, I love you and I appreciate you when they get emotional scared like I feel that with them And that's I think you know a big key now because you feel like that Do you find that you hold on to people for too long? I have I have you know I I really try to see the best in people. And that is a great strategy for bringing out someone's best. Like if you look at someone and all you see is their worst, you're gonna call forward their worst.

Starting point is 00:52:32 But if you look at someone and you see their best, you'll call forward their best. And I've successfully called forward people's bests who were alcoholics, you know, angry, upset, depressed, bad, you know, like bad employees, but I saw something in him that was talented and seeing them flourish into some of the greatest allies and the greatest contributors that on its hat. And part of that was me, when everybody else is saying, this dude's a fucking alcoholic,

Starting point is 00:52:56 like he's a degenerate. We got to get rid of him. And I'd be like, no, no, like let me try to call that side I've seen forward. And then there's been other cases where I've really tried to call that forward and it hasn't worked. And then at that point, you have to respond. But yeah, so sometimes it's led to holding onto people a little too long.

Starting point is 00:53:17 I think the biggest problem with holding onto people a little too long is knowing what I should do, but just kicking it down the curb. I would say like if I'd stopped doing that, if I just did what I knew do, but just kicking it down the curb. You know, I would say like, if I'd stopped doing that, if I just did what I knew I needed to do. Rip the bandaid off. Yeah, man. You just kind of say, well, just wait another, he's kind of old,

Starting point is 00:53:33 you just wait another couple months, and then you make the switch and you go, and it's like, oh shit, look what was under that rock. It was fucking scorpions and snakes, and it was all rotten underneath there and I didn't even see it because he was showing this pretty rock to me. You know, even though I kind of knew it. So making those moves that I know I should have, you know, that I knew I should have done earlier, that's a big lesson.

Starting point is 00:53:57 What do your critics say about you? What are some of the biggest criticisms of this year? Every year. I have my critics are everywhere. Well, what do you think you're most misunderstood then? I don't know, man. I mean, it's kind of spread out. You know, I think it's kind of spread out. I mean, I think I get a little bit of everything.

Starting point is 00:54:16 There's not one thing that constantly I get hit with. There's some people like, oh, man, you don't even drink ayahuasca. You're just saying that because it's trendy and you're all about the money, bro. Really? Like, I'll get those. There's a whole group of people who really, we're really convinced. Virtual righteousness.

Starting point is 00:54:31 Just fake, I just fake drinking ayahuasca. There's a good score talking about sliding down vines of thorns, getting my balls ripped off and my visions and like all these things. Because it was like some big Machiavelli employee. But that's the way, that was the lens they saw the world and everybody had an angle. This must be my angle.

Starting point is 00:54:47 It's not just some dude talking about his stories and the things that happened to him. It was me playing a role in a character for a particular, you know, action-risk picture. It's a strategy if that was the case. It's the Balsey way. It's a real roundabout way to go. A real roundabout way to get there.

Starting point is 00:55:03 But, you know, I mean, if, so you'll hear, I've heard literally everything, and I know that the ones that, the ones that kind of sting a little, I have some insecurities around. I remember, you know, somebody, somebody called me out for like, not being funny. And like, I'm like, really hurt.

Starting point is 00:55:23 You're like, that really hurt my skin. That really hurt. Yeah. And I was like, I'm insecure about hurt. You're like, that really hurt my skin. That really hurt. Yeah. And I was like, it's like the worst insult I've ever had. I'm insecure about not having a good enough sense of humor. And I think part of that was I have incredibly funny friends. Like, you know, all these comedian friends who are fucking hilarious. Oh, shit, if you compare yourselves to professional comedians.

Starting point is 00:55:37 Yeah, and I wasn't even consciously doing it. But like, that one's done where someone can say, you're a fucking idiot, bro. And I'll just kind of smile and be like, I love you too. But that one person at that one time who's like, you know, attacked my sense of humor, I was like, oh, which. And then that's a good sign that I need to do

Starting point is 00:55:55 a little cleanup work around some insecurity. Now with the plant medicines, you do see, there definitely is, because they've got deep roots, no pun intended, it's very old, ancient traditions. And you seem to now have over the past, I don't know, five years or so, this kind of pop culture surrounding it,

Starting point is 00:56:13 where you do get a lot of people who are doing the tourism, what do they call it, the psychedelic tourism, where they're going and doing these different things. How do you feel about that? That you go scout bad, just to get to spirituality. How do you feel about all that? I mean, I don't have any experience with heavy psychedelics, but from the research that I've read, especially from some of the research coming from the maps association,

Starting point is 00:56:35 powerful, extremely powerful stuff. How do you feel about the tourism and the pop culture around it, making it cool and all that? Well, I mean, I think you're never gonna get a totally pure movement. No, you're gonna get totally pure motivation, no, I mean, are people gonna get hurt? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:56:54 But a lot of people are gonna get helped. And like, there's gonna be collateral help and collateral damage. And the collateral help is gonna far outweigh the collateral damage. Like, nothing is going to be perfect. And I think that's this idea. Like we understand that there's been like a thousand deaths

Starting point is 00:57:09 from a seat of minifin, which is Tylenol in the last 10 years or something like that. Like a thousand people have died from that. And we don't even talk about it. It's like, oh Tylenol overdose, there goes another one. Whatever Tylenol is good. You know, so we have this acceptable amount of, like I know people are gonna die,

Starting point is 00:57:24 like 50,000, 60,000 wrong prescription deaths or like crazy numbers, you know, I don't have that number off the top of my head, but crazy numbers of these deaths. That's one of the leading causes of death is our prescription drug. Yeah, and so that's happening, and we have that as like this acceptable loss,

Starting point is 00:57:40 like, man, okay. But then one person dies or gets hurt doing ayahuasca. It goes worldwide and news because it's scary and dangerous. And ayahuasca is this big danger. Sure, it has risks. It has an MAOI component which when mixed with other psychiatric meds, when administered improperly, can definitely be dangerous. Like, this is psychic surgery and you have to have clean tools

Starting point is 00:58:04 and a clean instrument and a clean body, you know, to a certain degree in order for it to be effective. And that's why they have this practice called deata where you clean up your diet, you tell your shaman or your whoever's administering it, all the things that you've taken for any interactions. You have to approach it, you know, properly.

Starting point is 00:58:21 But we also have to understand there's going to be people who get hurt, but there's also going to be a hell of a lot of people who get helped. I think you really got to have a more utilitarian approach instead of this draconian black and white if one person gets hurt than ban the whole fucking thing. Well, for me, the biggest problem is I think is not, it really is preposterous that we, you know, the powers that be government, whatever believes that they actually own your body and your mind, they own your consciousness. You can't do what you want to yourself if you hurt no one else, even if you do hurt

Starting point is 00:58:56 yourself, who are you to tell me what I can do to my own my own my body. And I find that absolutely frightening. It's a scary concept, but we've been with it for so long. I think we've just accepted it. Why do you think Western societies don't place any value on that kind of medicine? Think we're, a lot of times people will go into this conspiracy theory.

Starting point is 00:59:21 It's a conspiracy to keep us down, to keep us capitalist, to keep us in the machine and keep us dumb. And that's why we put Florida in the water. It's to dull the pineal gland, maybe. Maybe it's this big Machiavellian plan. And I think when you see that lens, so there's the same people who are saying,

Starting point is 00:59:36 yeah, I was just never even taking a wash. You're just talking about it to sell alpha brain, bro. You know, like, you can see the world in that way, or you can just say, you know, people push away the things that they're scared of. And if you're operating as your ego, you know, and you really want to stay in charge

Starting point is 00:59:52 and stay afraid and stay in your small self, you're going to push away the things that might show you that reflection of who you really are. You're going to push away the things that might rip that mask off your face and expose your true self. And those are overwhelmingly psychedelics. Those are the things that, in some cases,

Starting point is 01:00:10 quite violently, will pull off your perceptions about who you really are and how you've lived your life. Well, see, there is, but there is a real conspiracy, again, psychedelics. We know that, we know for a fact that the counterculture was targeted by the Nixon administration and they couldn't throw these kids in jail for exercising free speech. So they picked the drugs that they use the most and made them schedule one.

Starting point is 01:00:34 So because leading up to that point, there was a shit ton of research. People don't realize that. There was a lot of research in things like silocybin and LSD and it was good research and then it was gone. So the, I mean, there really is a conspiracy. There was at least, you know, there certainly was. And you're racing that, a reverse in that's very difficult. And the momentum, yeah, and the momentum that's created,

Starting point is 01:00:56 I think we're creatures of momentum. It's hard to reverse ingrained patterns. Well, look how long it took marijuana. Jesus. Yeah, and it's only a totalist. I know, right? And it it's just it's still only barely making its way. Bay back and weird things can happen that can you know slow down progress for decades. You know, there was a study that came out in the 80s conveniently

Starting point is 01:01:18 on MDMA, which is what maps is doing a lot of the research on about to go into phase. Especially for PTSD. Yeah. And the results came back that it created holes in the brain. Worldwide, news came out, new study, MDMA creates holes in the brain. Well, that sounds fucking scary. A few years later, there's a retraction. Whoops, we weren't studying MDMA, we were studying methamphetamines.

Starting point is 01:01:43 Sorry about that. You know where that was printed and the fucking fine print. Of course, in the fine print. So still to this day, when you're talking about, you know, I'm hosting a charity dinner for maps now because they're doing amazing work. Or PTSD, curing two, curing two out of three treatment resistant veterans with PTSD

Starting point is 01:02:00 in phase two FDA-proof clinical trials. Dude, it's a trip when you read the studies on how effective, I mean, what they're starting to understand is that we're all hardwired to have mystical experiences. There's a part of the brain that you can actually stimulate to create this meaningful mystical experience. And when you have that feeling, whatever realization you have,

Starting point is 01:02:23 even though it may be a realization, if you're a smoker, right? And you've been smoking for 20 years and you know, smoking is bad for me, it's bad for me, it's bad for me. Then you have this mystical experience that creates this feeling of intense meaning and intense importance. And you think to yourself, I shouldn't be smoking. Now it's cemented.

Starting point is 01:02:40 Now you make lasting change. And that's, they think part of the reason why these substances can be so effective. But I think the reverse can be true also. I think if someone goes in wrong, you may cause more problems, but I think they're advocating for actual therapy with these substances. It's not just the substance. It's the substance used in a therapeutic context.

Starting point is 01:03:01 That's a really important distinction to make. It's not just taking 200 milligrams at a rave, and then your PTSD is cured. It doesn't work like this. Oh, that might get more. Three, yeah. It's three sessions with therapists who know how to lead you through into the places where you can start to heal that trauma, like shining lights on those dark places inside your psyche and allowing you to explore those

Starting point is 01:03:26 with the sense of love and peace and security and also focus, which allows you to go into the details, bring them to the light and actually heal them. But one thing I just want to circle back on is, so I'm saying, so I have, I'm hosting this charity, and I'm very outspoken about the benefits that maps is shown for MDMA, but I'll still talk to someone who is around in the 80s that maps is shown for MDMA, but I'll still talk to someone who was around in the 80s and they're like, MDMA that puts holes in your brain. And I go, oh, actually that was a different compound that was methamphetamine that did that. That's Adderall.

Starting point is 01:03:55 But that one little thing that kind of ripped around the news cycle that you never got prepared. Made a huge impact on everybody who was voting, people in the FD, people who have this kind of gut reaction. It's fucking easy to scare people. It's really easy. If I wrote an article that got any traction at all, that said, you know, this many kids get strangled

Starting point is 01:04:18 every year from seatbelts. There's gonna be a lot of fucking people who are gonna stop putting seatbelts on their kids. Because it's really, really easy to scare people and it's almost impossible to unscare them. Once people are scared, like, you could tell them, hey, that article was wrong, too late. Everybody's freaked out now.

Starting point is 01:04:33 Right. That's already planted. There's the association has been drawn that that thing causes holes in the brain and it's hard to unwork and that's why it's taken maps so many years to get the studies approved and allow themselves to actually work with the medicine and medicinal context. But when that thing is legal, I really think the world starts to shift because we all carry trauma.

Starting point is 01:04:56 Trauma is the source of fear. It's like where we're physically holding fear in our psyche and in our body. And if we start to heal that, we start to heal the fear. Maybe our neighbors or the other political party or the other race or the other individuals across from us don't seem so scary, so we don't have to hate them so we can actually start to help them. So we don't need to hoard our money because no one's after it. We're actually safe and secure and everything can start to shift.

Starting point is 01:05:21 And I think I really look to these psychedelic medicines as a major thing that can impact the future. You see a guy that probably shares a lot of your success and your money. Are you like that with your friends? I try to, man. You know, I definitely don't hoard it. You know, like people, I don't even have a savings account. You know, like the bank will look at me like, you don't like a new banker will come in and be like, you don't have a savings account. You can make 2% AP out while I'm like, yeah yeah I don't have any savings. Talk about why that's unique. That's weird yeah. Yeah I don't think it's a bad hat. I think it's a bad hat. I don't recommend it. I've never I've never had that and I think think for me, it's money is energy.

Starting point is 01:06:05 And I have so much energy I want to use that the idea of keeping a hoard, like I also am not the type of guy that has 100 AA batteries in my drawer, ready to go just in case. I'm like, where's the fucking... Everybody has one of those for me. Where's those fucking AA batteries?

Starting point is 01:06:22 I wish I had some. If I have energy, I want to use it. I want to create more energy with it. I want to spend it. I want to help somebody with it. It just doesn't stick around. Fortunately, I'm been pretty good at attracting more of that energy. Everything cycles really fast.

Starting point is 01:06:39 I'm like an economist's dream. You think that it's cycle money? You think that attracts people that sometimes maybe take advantage of you? Sure, sure. And there's certain, there's certain, is a weird level of entitlement that can happen where you give something and then it's granted.

Starting point is 01:06:55 And then if you don't give the same amount or you don't give more, it's like, give them an inch, they want a mile right there. There are those psychological factors. That would seem like a tough thing to deal with, especially like you. Yeah, sure. Sure, it is.

Starting point is 01:07:09 But I try not to, like the people around me actually get really pissed about that. Like the people who, they got your back. The people who got my back, they're like, they're ready to kill somebody. Like that,

Starting point is 01:07:20 ungrateful, ingrate, piece of shit, I can't believe he's doing this. I was like, no, it's all right, man. Let's just give it to him. You know, and I'll tend to even still in those situations lean towards a clean generosity.

Starting point is 01:07:34 Set the boundary, say, okay, man, you know, I'm good with that, but you know, this is the end. I wish you the best. And then when I make my, when I make my boundary, you know, I don't go back on my boundary, you know, it's not something that I am comfortable saying no, but it'll always, I tend to, to breathe that away with as much kindness and seeing that, you know, it's just the, it's just the way money can do a funny thing to people. When you want, just some good objective advice or criticism. Who do you turn to?

Starting point is 01:08:07 I think the people at large, like the internet's beautiful for that. Oh man. Oh man. You do some other fucking I wonder your anxious I don't trust any of the bad stuff like the guy who's really lying.

Starting point is 01:08:18 Nudoluses, that's hard. But you know, you start to develop like you said trends and the things that the things that sting Okay, the things that sting are probably things that I need to clean either internally or that there's some there's an issue there Like there's something that isn't quite right and if they say something and it hurts then that's an opportunity to do it because You know, there's there's obviously my homies, you know I really love it when my homies can keep me in check and we try to have that relationship.

Starting point is 01:08:47 I never want to be so aloof or so looked at as like, I need to be protected in a bubble. And part of that is never responding in that manner, whereas if someone says something you get all mad or you get offended. So making sure that you don't create this aura of, you know, don't tell me no or don't come up with a contract idea. You gotta actually go out of your way. If you're in power, you gotta go out of your way to reward the counter opinion, be like, yo, I really appreciate you

Starting point is 01:09:13 standing up and expressing that. You were a dead fucking wrong and had totally disagree, but that was rad. Like, that was awesome. Right. I respect you so much more for that. And I think that's a key part, but probably the thing that keeps me most in check

Starting point is 01:09:27 is just the peoples. The peoples. What was the last thing that has been said to you that triggered you and something, and revealed something for you? I think I'm able bullshit either too. Can we get some deeper stuff? Someone told me I was too hardworking.

Starting point is 01:09:41 Yeah, yeah. No, I think, all right, so if I'm being honest, the last thing that kind of twingeed me a little bit is I think I was talking about, I'm coming out with some clothes through on it in the Aubrey Marks collection, some dope clothes working with the designer in Italy and stuff that I would love to wear.

Starting point is 01:09:59 And, or like street wear type, or street wear type stuff. And someone, you know, someone gets on there and it's like, you're just all about the money, bro, gonna sell some more fucking shit. You capitalist piece of blah, blah, blah. I don't think he said those words, but you're just like everything you do

Starting point is 01:10:13 is all about the money, money, money, money, money, money. You know, blah, blah, blah. And I got kind of mad. I was like, man, fuck you. Like, like, what are you talking about? Like, you know, I am an entrepreneur. I do create things that I love, and I wanted to defend myself,

Starting point is 01:10:27 and then I just realized like, all right, man, it's okay. Maybe sometimes I do convince myself that I'm more altruistic and it doesn't matter about the money than I really am. So maybe there is some part of me that is more about the money than I'm willing to admit, because that hurt a little bit. So I got- I see you, you willing to admit because that hurt a little bit.

Starting point is 01:10:45 So I see you, you've got to kind of be a little bit. Yeah, man. Of course. Of course. And that's, but the fact that it hurt meant that I was in some way out of alignment with the truth, which is, yeah, I do like when people buy my shit. You know, it feels good to make money. Here's the bottom fucking line, man.

Starting point is 01:11:00 In a market economy, if you produce something that people like, they will buy it and you'll make money. And that's just the result of it that's the bottom of the country because if you make your clothes and they suck and nobody buys them you fucking lose all that money. That is the most hilarious. If anybody ever says that to me I will fucking laugh and that's the funniest thing I've ever heard of my life. No one talks about the trickle down effect too of how many people probably got employed

Starting point is 01:11:21 because you were successful too. No one talks about the 175 or 200 employees working around here. Hey man, I don't care. Unless you're like crony capitalism and you get in favors from politicians and doing weird shit, like if you're making hundreds of millions of dollars,

Starting point is 01:11:36 it's because you made a lot of people happy and you gave a lot of people what they want. That's the bottom line. It's so fucking weird that that is somehow a bad thing. And what I've actually found is the people who run in the more spiritual circles, they actually have the most unhealthy relationship with one. Big time. And when they get around it, and when you have an unhealthy relationship with money, when you get around it, you get real weird, you get real grabby, you get real finicky. And these people were like loving fucking butterflies

Starting point is 01:12:05 when you see them in their in their practice, you start talking money. I grew up in that also. They were fucking monster, you just came out there. It's a root of all you've been saying. It's really unfortunate because a video that changed my life years ago, I watched Milton Friedman, the pencil. Have you seen that video?

Starting point is 01:12:22 The pencil? I love Milton Friedman. Okay, so he talks about, he lifts up a pencil, he talks about all the pieces of the pencil where they came from, who made them, and you know, from all over the world. There's people that specialize in making the eraser, there's people that make the wood, there's people that paint the wood, there's all these different materials. And he said, there's only one force in the world that can bring all these people together to work together to give a fraction of their time to produce this product and

Starting point is 01:12:48 Literally voluntarily work together and that's the free market. It is literally the it is the force for peace Which is hilarious when people you know Rail against it. There are things that are corrupt But when things are free and things are done voluntarily, if you wanna talk about real peace and people working together, that's it right there. And if you're doing it the right way, and what I mean by the right way is you're not making deals with politicians and creating laws

Starting point is 01:13:13 to limit competition to other shit, when you're doing things the right way and you become successful, it's cause you fucking did a bunch of shit that people liked and you made a bunch of people happy, and guess what that makes you? An awesome guy. It doesn't make you a fucking asshole.

Starting point is 01:13:27 It's really crazy. It's really crazy. And I think where the other half of the equation where you see the spiritual side or the spiritual people really mess up is the philosophy of the West is based on the concept of the individual that each person is born with these rights that were given to them, bestowed upon them by their creator or some people will say they're inalible or just you're right to speak, you're right to protect yourself

Starting point is 01:13:54 and all these things that we have in our bill of rights. And when people talk about individualism, spiritual people feel like that's selfish. You can't just think of yourself, you gotta think of everyone else, but that's false because if you look at the world, you look at the environment, you look at the community, you are a microcosm of that. Your environment is a microcosm of the environment.

Starting point is 01:14:12 And when you take care of you and you do a good job of it, and I mean, really take care of yourself. Not like, you know, some people think taking care of yourself means, oh, you just, you know, you just have fun all the time. And no, I mean, how would you take care of a child? Would you give them what they wanted all the time? Oh, you'd ruin them.

Starting point is 01:14:26 You want to challenge them sometimes. Sometimes you want to make them learn. Sometimes you give them what they want. And that's what I mean. When you take care of yourself, if everybody did that, now we've got, that's where peace comes from. Like that Jordan Pierce, that's what great things are. Clean your room, clean your room theory, right?

Starting point is 01:14:40 Absolutely, absolutely. And so I think, and the problem is the spiritual side got hijacked by these terrible, fundamentally flawed philosophies of collectivism where everybody's a group, and so everybody is the same. And if they're not the same, then that's something's wrong. And it doesn't, they don't value the individual, they value the group and it's who's more marginalized and who's more victimized, which is impossible. How the hell can you decide what that is? Yeah, the ego plays, the ego changes the rules of the game

Starting point is 01:15:12 and so that it can be superior. The ego's only interested in superiority based upon, you know, comparison to something else. Like it doesn't have a real sense of what it is and it's a real sense of self satisfaction or a real sense of being real in any sense. It only knows itself via comparison. So if you only know yourself via comparison, you're going to try and be superior to others

Starting point is 01:15:34 in some way, and it's always hungry for that. So it'll change the rules accordingly. So if you're poor, or if you don't have money, but you're wealthy in something else, maybe you're wealthy in, at least can appear to be wealthy in spirituality, or if you don't have money, and but you're wealthy in something else, maybe you're wealthy in, at least can appear to be wealthy in spirituality, or can appear to be wealthy in even your lack of wealth, then you can flip the rules and be like, oh, money's evil. Those people with money are evil.

Starting point is 01:15:55 Those people like us, rapport, were the ones who have real character and soul. So you just change the rules, change the rules, and that creates this thing where you start to create more and more divisions, where everybody who is different than you in a certain way is for some reason inferior to you. So you're creating more and more and more. And the irony of all of that is the smallest of all minorities,

Starting point is 01:16:17 the most vulnerable of all minorities is the individual. That's all it starts off with one person. So it's not a group, it's one person. And the other part of the irony of that is you can only compare two things when you know everything. Nobody knows nearly about as much about you as you do. You know everything about you. All your dark thoughts, all the shitty stuff you've done,

Starting point is 01:16:39 you know how terrible of a person. You know how awesome of a person you can be. You know everything you've gone through. You know very little about even the a person, you know how awesome of a person you can be, you know everything you've gone through, you know very little about even the closest person to you in comparison. How could you possibly compare yourself to somebody else? That's impossible. The only person you could ever compare yourself to

Starting point is 01:16:55 is you yesterday and that's it. And really I think that becomes, that is the root of a lot of the problems that we have. And we focus on just that right there, then everything's not a problem. And you start to see things a little bit differently, because it's hard to say that that rich guy over there who has everything is better off than me,

Starting point is 01:17:12 because I don't know if he had a shitty childhood or his wife's cheating on him or shit went down or maybe he didn't grow as much, because he was in challenge like I was. I grew up in a single family household and I was poor, but I learned a lot from that. And he's had everything given to him. And so he's immature in comparison.

Starting point is 01:17:27 We don't know any of that shit. So that's stuff really both. On that note, Aubrey, where do you think you have made the most growth in the last year or two? And I know your growth minded person, so you've had probably growth in all areas, in aspect, but I don't want that generic answer from you. I want like, where have you battled the most

Starting point is 01:17:43 and where have you overcame the most in the last year or two? Fear, I think fear is the one, it's the one virus. It manifests in a lot of different symptoms. And we can talk about these symptoms and you can chase them down, but the illness is fear. And I don't mean self-preservation, whenever I say fear, fear is good, bro. What are you gonna run from a tiger?

Starting point is 01:18:02 That's self-preservation. I'm calling it something else. Just like when I say I love fucking cupcakes. It's not the same saying I love my, you know, deceased grandmother of my fucking fiance. Like, same word love, but totally different meaning. Yeah, trying to have sex with a cupcake. Maybe more, but it's different. You're getting pretty good. Yeah. Wow.

Starting point is 01:18:20 Damn. Damn. That was a bad comparison. Yeah, that was a really bad one. Adam goes all in. Yeah. That was a bad comparison. Yeah, that was a really bad one. Adam goes all in. Yeah, that was sound, bro, that was a good one. Yeah, you took it to another level though. Capital F fear, that's where I've made the fucking headway. And I think that's, like I said, that moment where I lost control of my reputation and identity, there was something that I was completely false

Starting point is 01:18:45 that I could completely had no chance to prevent. And it was really up to the world whether they believe this guy or not. And fortunately, he's a cook, so they didn't believe him. But in dealing with those challenges, you make steps. It forces you to make steps. And I think I'm a less scared guy than I was a year ago.

Starting point is 01:19:06 And that's probably the biggest progress. You're talking about that same thing that we talked about earlier. Yeah, that thing. But that and a bunch of things. I feel like that was tiny. It was different. It was different in that.

Starting point is 01:19:16 Like I feel like it popped up and then disappeared. It was. It was. It was. But it was the nature of it. It was the nature of the fact that it was completely outside of the purview of what I thought was possible. Even a car wreck, even if I'm running

Starting point is 01:19:30 every type of injury that could happen, I thought about all these things. Like, oh, well, this injury could happen. This thing could happen. I could fail in this way. I've thought about a lot of different ways that I could get fucked up. I didn't think about that way.

Starting point is 01:19:43 And it just, for whatever reason, that was one of the things that was a major catalyst. And there's been others too. There's been friends that I've had that are no longer friends and inexplicably and for things that are out of my control. There's been more things that were out of my control and surprising that have happened, that have forced me to deal with fear in a different way. Instead of using my mind to prevent it, surrendering to a greater faith that whatever happens, I'll learn from it, I'll be okay.

Starting point is 01:20:16 And I think that's probably the biggest. You find yourself moving on from a lot of relationships, like your type 5, keep evolving and changing because you kind of have that attitude or it's just like a little bit, but you know, I try to bring, I try to bring the family with me, you know, like that's, and some people, you know, some people step off and kind of go spiraling their own way and some people come back. Sometimes you need to go on your own little journey and then you'll reconnect later in the path and it's important to, to separate and some and it's important to separate.

Starting point is 01:20:45 And some people it's just kind of right or die and we're moving together and we're growing together. And some people who just are too stubborn and they kind of stick and don't want to take the ride and you know we'll always welcome them if they want to hustle and catch up but you know it's we're not in resonance anymore. Do you subscribe to that idea of that you know we're like a net average of the five people we spend the most time with? No.

Starting point is 01:21:10 No. Why not? It depends. I mean, I think there's a lot of roles. I think if you're a natural teacher, you may spend time with a lot of people that you're teaching, you know, and you may recharge with your teachers who you don't get time to,

Starting point is 01:21:25 as much time to, to spend with, you know, the fuck I'd love to spend a shitload of time with Paul check. He's super busy. I'm super busy. We live in different states, so I don't get to. So I get to go spend time with him and that interaction has a disproportionate amount of fact on me than spending a whole bunch of time with, you know, because I spend probably 50 hours a week with people in the office. I'm not the average of them. Like that interview, even though the time amount that I've spent with them is way higher, the impact amount of that one weekend with Paul, you know, is dramatically different. So I don't think it's about time, but I think if you look at the whole spectrum

Starting point is 01:22:06 of who you're around and those significant people in your life, I think you could kind of get close to that theory. I just think time is the wrong metric to use. Right. Do you feel like sometimes you're being so unselfish that you're giving more than you're, you know, doing that because maybe, what if, what if that's your Achilles heel

Starting point is 01:22:23 that what if you were able to spend time with five of their Paul Chex all the time and you spend less time speaking and leading and mentoring others? Give more recharge. Or do you think it would accelerate you more and you were thought of it like that? I have and I've longed for that.

Starting point is 01:22:38 There's times where I'm like, man, I just longed for that, but that's not what I currently signed up for. It's just like fantasy. You know, like, I mean, I've certainly, you know, I've certainly contemplated what that would look like. Man, if all I had to do was write and learn from people and grow, like, man, I would move so fast. That'd be your dream.

Starting point is 01:22:59 But then again, I wouldn't have the, I wouldn't have these random challenges that are really honing who I am. Like maybe actually that would slow me down, you know, because it wouldn't, I wouldn't have these random challenges that are really honing who I am. Like maybe actually that would slow me down. Because I wouldn't have the stress to butt up against. I would think that I was progressing, but then when some little trivial thing happened, I'd be like, whoa! Whereas now, I'm dealing, I'm in the shit.

Starting point is 01:23:19 I'm getting really battle tested by a lot of external friction and forces that are trying to, you know, kind of pull apart the center, and that's maybe forcing me to be closer to the center. So, there's a lot of different ways to look at it, but certainly in my fantasies, there's a much quieter sound that's surrounding the chaos. Are you starting to get tired? Sometimes I'm exhausted, sometimes I'm like a newborn full of energy and ready for new experience. It varies. I actually was writing about that

Starting point is 01:23:51 today. I just read your post. I just said that exactly. Yeah, like I sometimes I really feel like fuck, I'm tired. I'm just I'm just really tired. And other times it's just like, hell yeah, I'm ready to go, we're just getting started. We're just fucking getting started. And I mean, I feel all the spectrum. I don't shield myself from the different things. Do you have rituals that you put in place when you know that my growing eye, we've learned to figure that out about our relationship and us when we,

Starting point is 01:24:19 because we're both very motivated and both entrepreneurs and workaholics almost. And I say almost because I still think we have a little pretty good balance when we start to notice that we're becoming workaholics that we take ourselves away, somewhere quiet, kind of phones go away and we're there for three or four days and that helps you recharge and reset. Do you have something like that that you have in place that like, hey, this is time for me to get away. That's usually not as big and dramatic. It's usually a matter of, I need to get a good workout. You know, like Whitney, my fiance, she'll be like, I'll be pacing around and blah, blah, blah.

Starting point is 01:24:54 And she's learning to just be like, go swim some laps. Like if she asked me like, what's wrong, I will spin her ears into a fucking pancake batter. But if she's like, go take a swim. Like just go fucking, so we'll go to the garage, hit the bag, like come back and like hit, you know, after you're done hitting the bag,

Starting point is 01:25:10 then, then talk to me and then I come back and like, yeah, I got nothing to talk about. I'm good. What are we having for dinner? You know, like, or take a, take an ice bath, or take a heat bath, or do some breathing, or, you know, actually one of the things that Kyle got me on too was tobacco

Starting point is 01:25:26 and really using that intentionally. We talked about it as a dictionary yesterday. I'll put a snooze, which is like a Swedish form of tobacco that's really clean. I'll put a snooze in and it'll shift my state and shift my perspective and all. Tobacco's been used for a long time. People don't know that. I actually write about it in the books, probably one of the only health books that has a section that's called Performance Enhancing Plants, and one of the three plants I talk about is

Starting point is 01:25:54 a conscientious use of tobacco in the right way, which is basically don't ever fucking smoke a cigarette because there's way better ways to get to your tobacco. Yeah, nicotine is a, is a neutropic, cause it's an addictive neutropic, but it is a neutropic. It's actually one of the more effective neutropics when they're going back to your partner. What are some of the things that she has taught you about yourself?

Starting point is 01:26:16 Well, it's not just my partner, but it's the fact that we're, we've been attempting this open relationship, and I would, you know, dare say, dare to say now that we've been, we've succeeding. We're succeeding. You know, I wouldn't say we've succeeded, because there's always shit that comes up.

Starting point is 01:26:29 But that has been a hell of a process, you know, to completely flip. I remember, you know, it's crazy to think about. Again, you look back at yourself like a kid. I remember if, you know, my fiance then, whose name is Caitlin, if Caitlin would dress too provocatively or do something in a party that seemed too provocative,

Starting point is 01:26:53 I'd be like, put your sweater back on, you're in your bra, something like that. And this really kind of protective kind of male, you're my girl, nobody gets to see you, but me and I wasn't that bad, you know, I wasn't like, but I had some of that in me still to now being in a fully open relationship. Like it's two completely different paradigms

Starting point is 01:27:16 and different people and I've had to work out a lot of insecurities and a lot of patterns and a lot of programming to get there. And there's been some fucking dark, challenging times. But who's more likely to have the two you to say, let's fuck this open relationship thing. Let's go back to just you and I. Who's more likely to say that the two you?

Starting point is 01:27:32 Neither of us now at the start. Get the fuck out of here. One of you has to be more likely to have a- You get to have at least one. And not anymore. Wow. Well, I was the one who was leading the, I was the one who was sure that there was no fucking

Starting point is 01:27:44 possible way that I would ever choose a monogamy as a relationship again. I understood love in a way that yeah, I could actually not be with somebody and be fine, but I would just not be being with someone in an open relationship. You know, I could not be with someone my whole life, but I'd still have an open relationship. Sure. The only thing that abided by my understanding of love, which is love does not get to be possessed. Love does not get to decide, oh, you're worthy of love. I can share that with you, but not you.

Starting point is 01:28:16 That's the most sacred thing. What's more sacred than your love? You know, you make your consciousness, your love, these things, the government shouldn't control, your partner shouldn't control. And that's a real fundamental belief that I had about that. And of course, the bodies, I mean, these are these pleasure monkey machines.

Starting point is 01:28:33 You know, why is it okay to get a massage from one person but not a massage on your generals? It just didn't fucking make any sense to me. So that idea led the way. And then the pain, in fact fact, actually putting that into practice and dealing with my jealousies and my insecurities and all that followed. But I was unwavering. And she was very skeptical, but loved me and was willing to take the ride. And so I definitely led the path. And then, you know, now we're both sure that this is the way that makes sense because we've yielded the benefit.

Starting point is 01:29:08 We've enjoyed other people. We've enjoyed the connection and the enjoyment of the other person being free. You know, I mean, I wish I was one of those people that had a fantasy about my fiance being with somebody else. I don't. I really don't like it. But that's also, me to respect her more and have that excitement that you have with someone who isn't just your partner. You know you control and they're only with you because they're abiding by the rules, the relationship. She's free to be with whoever she wants. And it really aligns our communication and it aligns the honesty and just how much we

Starting point is 01:29:43 love each other because we don't resent each other anymore. We're not preventing each other from doing anything. We're free. Now is communication an important factor of that? Like it'd be impeccable. Okay, so I was gonna say, is it different? Would it be different if she was with someone and you didn't know?

Starting point is 01:29:57 And she was having a relationship with someone versus, hey, I like this other person. I want to have this relationship and then I tell you about it. Yeah, it's... Because I feel like you have have this relationship. And then I tell you about it. Yeah, it's, because I feel like you have to make rules. You have to be impeccable. So you have to, and you can,

Starting point is 01:30:09 obviously you don't have to talk about the details. You can decide what level of detail that you want. But the communication is forced to be at 100 because everything is permitted. So if you don't tell your partner something where everything is permitted, you're a fucking asshole. Something's going on.

Starting point is 01:30:24 Yeah. There's like, there's no reason not to communicate fully. And there'll be mistakes. There'll be old patterns like, oh, they get sad, especially to start. Because even if you tell the truth, even though it's permitted, your partner might get sad. And so you might want to shield that from them because they'll get sad. But you have to break yourself of that habit.

Starting point is 01:30:42 You have to really commit to this and say, I'm going to open the express, even if it has temporary emotional consequences, and force yourself to communicate impeccably. And that's one of the benefits of it. That's an important tool, even if you're not in an open relationship. Well, that's the most important. That's the key regardless.

Starting point is 01:31:00 Yeah, and then you have to, and I think the decision to open up your bodies and your emotional connection to other people is I think you know Some people are gonna want to do that some people are not gonna want to do that It's not for everybody sure but the idea that you should restrict your other person from Expressing their attraction or admitting their attraction to other people like that's crazy That would be like owning a restaurant and having your homies like getting mad at them anytime they said they liked another restaurant.

Starting point is 01:31:30 You're like, fuck and crazy. Like, what, you like Chinese food? What the fuck? You know, like, that's insane. You know, like, we're human beings. We're gonna find other people attractive. We're gonna find other things attractive. Whether you have the rules and the agreement

Starting point is 01:31:43 to act on those is fine. But I think bringing in the rules and the agreement to act on those is fine, but I think bringing in the future, at least having that communication and understanding that people are going to be attracted to other people, it's just being human. I'm glad you said it's for some people, it's good and for some people it isn't because statistically speaking, it's when couples engage in that, it's higher chances of them breaking up. It's challenging. Obviously, it's going to be one of the most challenging things.

Starting point is 01:32:08 I think a couple can do, but at the end of the day, the root is the same. Just be honest. That's it. Whether you're monogamous or you're in an open relationship, that's the key. 100%. You want to be with somebody who sees you, all of you, all your shitty parts, all your good parts, all of you. That's the reason for this kind of bond, is to really be seen and to really see.

Starting point is 01:32:32 And to force, that's what you want with your friends. You don't want a friend who's hiding shit from you. You don't want a gay friend who you don't know as gay. Like, the fuck that? That's a bullshit friendship. You want to be able to be there with them. You know, if she's watching somebody on TV and he's killing it and like,

Starting point is 01:32:51 I wanted to be able to be excited and me not go, oh my God, you're excited, Janine Tatum's doing that dance. It hurts, it hurts, because I can't move like that. And you know, he can move like that, but I can, you're attracted. Maybe you wanna be with someone that dances like that.

Starting point is 01:33:04 And that was, I was old me. You know, if someone I saw was like watching that and got excited like well Well, well, he's well I get all flustered now. I'm like fuck yeah, he's fucking killing it You know my flavor I find this fascinating because it's so different right so when you when you decide you want to be with someone else Do they typically look like the like your is that always someone that looks different? Or is that even does anything matter? I think if you have Chinese dinner at home, I think you would want like,

Starting point is 01:33:31 that's what I'm asking you. You want a hot dog every now and then. There's 31 flavors out there. I just got a flavor. You got a homo time. Doesn't mean you don't want a fucking ball dog every now. Try to, I mean, a ball dog might be a different, different thing, but that's a, put some real stuff there.

Starting point is 01:33:46 I'm saying. Yeah, man. 100%. I mean, it's the variety. I mean, people are inherently very different. It's hard to find two people who are alike anyways. I mean, that's very, you know, if you're talking hair color, like the spectrum of people with brown hair.

Starting point is 01:34:00 I mean, come on, man. How often does the other sex partners actually become attracted? Because you guys are both very attractive people, both intelligent, very successful fit. You got all these great qualities. Thanks, man. Yeah, he's like, he's like, he's like, I'm sorry about your partner.

Starting point is 01:34:13 Right. You know, how many how often do you guys get through these other relationships though? And they fall in love with you guys and are both of us? Yeah, or just with one. Yeah, I mean, you gotta be, you know, it Or just with one, yeah, I mean, is it gonna be, is it gonna be weird? Yeah, I mean, you have to manage expectations

Starting point is 01:34:29 on all sides and that's a challenge for everybody. And I think communication with all the other partners is absolutely essential as well. You can't play this game like, yeah, you know, things with things with my primary, you know, they're not going so good, but you know, maybe we'll be that one day and blah, blah, you start playing that game.

Starting point is 01:34:47 Yeah, maybe it'll work for a moment, but then you're setting yourself up for a hell of a lot of pain later. You gotta be truly righteous and truly like impeccable with your communication across the board and be willing to lose, you know, to be willing to lose partners. I recently lost a partner because I was ruthless

Starting point is 01:35:08 and impeccable with the boundaries of how often I was going to see her and what I could provide. I was like, no, this is the deal. I'm this busy. I'm Whitney is my primary. I'm seeing this person. And this is what I have to offer. Is that something that is interesting?

Starting point is 01:35:24 She's like, no, I would want more. And I was like, I'd love to promise you my name. And it was in that same night. And if I would've just lied, it would've been, boom, check a while. True. But that lie would've then led to a whole bunch of emergency concerns.

Starting point is 01:35:40 It's like the guys who was probably in their ear the first night. You just can't fucking do that. You just can't. You just met it. I love you in their ear the first night. I mean, you just can't fucking do that. You just can't, you just matter. It's a love you in your ear the first night. Come on. It's a same shit card.

Starting point is 01:35:50 It's the same shit, but this then just, it just really forces that impeccability because you're carrying the truth and the mantle for you and your partner. You know, your partner's doing you a great service and allowing you this freedom and, you know, how dare you go. So are there no boundaries in it?

Starting point is 01:36:06 I mean, is there like, I wait, can't fuck my workers, right? People that work for me, they can't be okay, right? I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that. That's not, no, I wouldn't, just hung out, we're gonna go share a stake together. Let's, let's create some boundaries here.

Starting point is 01:36:20 Let's create some boundaries here. You made a run at this. I know. We pretended like he was in including you, but we know the real truth. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you.

Starting point is 01:36:28 I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you.

Starting point is 01:36:36 I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you.

Starting point is 01:36:44 I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. I can't see you. And unless you see something that you wanna alert the person is unsafe, like this person's playing this emotional manipulation game, you gotta watch out for that. Like that's a dangerous pattern that I can see that you might not see, be aware of that pattern. Like that's an important thing. That's cool you guys can have that conversation. Oh, totally.

Starting point is 01:36:59 And we've had to have that conversation before. And we both rejected it and both accepted it and been like, yeah, you're right, there was that. Like I like your dude. I can tell by the way he's laying. Well, here's what he's doing here by doing it and it's causing you to react in a certain way. You know, like there's been those moments. And I think you have to have each other's back. Just like a real friend would have your back. Like if you're homey, if your girl was, you know, pulling moves on your homey and doing weird manipulative shit, you'd be like, yeah, watch that girl.

Starting point is 01:37:27 She's doing some, she's being manipulative. It's the same way that you would treat that, but ultimately you wouldn't forbid your homey from seeing her because then you'd be like, fuck you, man. And so it's the same thing. It's kind of like helping each other see things. And the only hard rules are you just don't break the sexual safety boundaries.

Starting point is 01:37:46 That's a hard rule, like you don't fuck around with that. It's impeccability or nothing because it's not just you that this will affect. So it actually, whereas in the adultery model, you're doing it quiet and hushed and you never communicate about it. People think, oh, well, what about sexual safety? I think it's a lot worse in those cases because then and you never communicate about it. And, you know, people think, oh, well, what about sexual safety? I think it's a lot worse in those cases because then you can't talk about it. If you had an unsafe experience, let's say something does happen. Let's say I do have an unsafe experience.

Starting point is 01:38:15 That's, I shouldn't have done that. I fucked up. But I can go back and be like, you know, I had an unsafe experience. It's just in the moment I got caught up. And it's like, we got to wait, you know, we gotta wait, or I gotta use a condom until I get tested again. And, you know, we've had to have those moments too where we fucked up.

Starting point is 01:38:32 But it was a mind. It was a super challenging. It's like, come on, man. I was like, I don't care everybody. You can't just come get me smart about it. Yeah, yeah. So you can get caught up in that. And but you have to remind yourself,

Starting point is 01:38:43 like if you do that too bad and another time someone, they screw up and but you have to remind yourself like if you do that too bad and another time someone They screw up and then they don't feel comfortable talking to you Then you're setting yourself up for problem because then you might just blast right through chlamydia, you know Right, so you have to allow that boundary and allow the flexibility for truth and human mistakes to come out and Communicate so you know that's I wanted lobster not crab the flexibility for truth and human mistakes to come out and communicate. So, you know, that's... I wanted lobster, not crabs.

Starting point is 01:39:07 What kind of guys that would challenge your ego the most that she would be with? Like, is there a type where you're like, oh, fuck. There's been lots of types, like anything that's different challenges the ego. I would think something more like me would bother me more. No, really. It's the things that people are better. When someone's better than me, it's something, well, actually everything's challenging to be honest, because there's people who are better than you, right?

Starting point is 01:39:38 And then those people challenge you because you think, oh, maybe she likes that trait, and I don't have that trait, so that's what she's really into. And that's what she likes the most. And it's because I need to be more like that. That's not true. You know, you got to keep reminding yourself that your partner loves you for you, your own unique combination of flavors. That's why she likes you. She likes the dish. Like your hot dog shouldn't try to be a filet man, you know, and it should just be the best fucking hot dog. It is. And if you're hot dog, fucking rock hot dog, you know,

Starting point is 01:40:07 that's what your girl likes. Don't try to be steak. You're non-stake, you know? And so knowing who you are and not trying to chase those other things, that's challenging. But caught yourself doing that? Or, of course. We're like, should you see guys, of course.

Starting point is 01:40:19 Tammy's more athletic than me, and also you so much more than a game. Oh, she's hooping out of nowhere again. And pretty much the ball out. This is getting personal. Like one of her first lovers was a guy who trained in the on at gym and happened to be the guy who owned the record for the farthest anybody to throw the medicine ball

Starting point is 01:40:36 over the back of their head. Which by the way, you own the record now. I tried. I tried. God damn if I didn't try to make that my specialty. And he had this amazing technique he would throw it and he would go all the way to the ground. He would like throw it in and then it would spin

Starting point is 01:40:53 and hit the fucking ground in the ball. He literally like had the record by like two yards over like anybody else. And I had one of the top scores in that too, but I would look at his name and that little line on the board and just see. And I had one of the top scores in that too, but I would look at his name, and that little line on the board, and just see, and be like, what the f**k? You know?

Starting point is 01:41:09 I'm loving the clock at night, I'll reason they're doing it. Yeah, totally, and I was like, doing that over and over again, again and again. And sure, I've caught myself in a bunch of those different f**king negative loops. I've also caught myself in a, in a, he's not good enough.

Starting point is 01:41:24 He's not good enough. Oh really? He's not good enough. He's not good. Oh really? He's not good enough, and that one was actually more devious than the, he's too good. That's a game here you go play, huh? Because the other one, at least it got me in there throwing balls. It got me like, there was an action to it. There was a positive driving force of like, man, he is a little fucking stronger than me.

Starting point is 01:41:42 I'm gonna step up my mother fucking game. And that at least feels good and has some positivity, even though it's rooted in dark, dark pain. Well, you can still wrap it around like, I got in shape, I got in better shape. Yeah, it's strong. But if it's someone who you feel like isn't worthy and you're kind of judging them,

Starting point is 01:41:58 then it's just like, I can't believe it. That guy, you know, and that's also your ego, you know, working in another way, trying to make yourself important for your attributes and not seeing that guy. Like a stake is not better than a hot dog, just because it costs more as these attributes served in this restaurant. You know, everybody's its own unique thing. You can't judge somebody for what they want to eat. And when you're at the ballpark and it's the fucking fifth inning

Starting point is 01:42:26 and you've had a couple beers, the fucking hot dog is the move. If someone rolled out a fucking T-bone, you're like, this is awkward. I don't want this now. I want hot dog now, ballpark. And then I'll go home to my, you know, Roof's Chris and fucking hang out.

Starting point is 01:42:41 Like, you just can't judge it that way. You can't say that this is a substitute. This is something that's supplementing your love life. And so that supplement can come in any variety, in any form. Are there rules like how often you can be with another lover or how often you have to be with your primary and all that stuff? I would imagine you can't supersede your pride.

Starting point is 01:43:04 Yeah, there's no rules necessarily, but there's understandings. Like, or respect. Because rules, yeah, because rules, rules again lead to resentment, but it'll, you know, you kind of have a feel for what's pushing the boundary too much. What actually doesn't make sense,

Starting point is 01:43:18 because mean Whitney R primary partners. So if it like, if something is really challenging that, then we have to take a look at that agreement. Like, are we, do we really want to be primary partners? Or do we want to pivot? And we've both had those conversations with other people like, and we've both painfully said to the other, and actually prematurely, to be honest, in both cases, painfully and prematurely said, hey, you know, if you'd rather her be the primary, if you'd rather him be the primary, you know, I'm okay with that puppy dog, cute puppy dog face and broken heart. But, you know, at least forcing ourselves to acknowledge that there may come a time where

Starting point is 01:43:55 that happens, maybe temporarily, maybe permanently, but you would want to address it. It wouldn't just be one of these things that kind of all the sudden, it's two days a week, then it's three days a week, and then it's five days a week with the other person, but we're still having a starter. Yeah, yeah. We play his basketball game all day, you could suck people in, but.

Starting point is 01:44:11 Right, I'm passing ball. And that's part of an agreement and understanding, and if that goes out of alignment, you really need to take a look at it. You think there'll ever be a time when you guys are gonna be older and sit down, you're like, yeah, I'm tired of doing this. This just hang out me and you forever.

Starting point is 01:44:27 There may, no, because it's getting easier. So there may be a time where we're not as sexually driven, but like the jealousy is getting less, the enjoyment of the other people with that is getting, you know, is getting more. How long have you been in an open relationship? Like three and a half years. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's progressing in a way where the downside is getting more. How long have you been in an open relationship? Like three and a half years. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:44:45 Yeah, so it's progressing in a way where the downside is getting diminished and the upside is getting heightened, we're getting. So I don't foresee a reason that we would, but I could foresee long stretches where maybe neither of us have a lover. We just, it just nothing has, nothing's quite manifested that makes sense.

Starting point is 01:45:04 That's worth the energy to really pursue. But I don't think the rules would ever change. Have either of you been like annoying one of the other and told the other one like, hey, go fucking call Steve, I'm getting tired of your fucking attitude. I have him take your ass out the dinner. That's like a sitcom.

Starting point is 01:45:22 That's what I imagine it is. I've been in life for like all just tired of each other. The thing about this is it really keeps things very fresh. I've never been this passionately into someone. I've been with Whitney three years monogamously, three and a half years now non-monogamously. And it's still like electric and exciting. And I think that's because of the rule shift.

Starting point is 01:45:45 Because at year three, we actually split up. After three years of monogamy, we split up. And it was kind of dull, to be honest, at the end of that. Like, we were just in that routine. We both owned each other's sexuality. We were both a little bored, you know, and that was the time where, yeah, you know, it felt like get out of here. And so we ended up splitting up. But but with this thing it just kind of keeps things

Starting point is 01:46:09 More interesting. I know I'm there's probably a lot of people that are irritated by hearing me compare to hot dogs and flame and y'all But it's true like I mean if you have been eating flame and you're on every single day every now and then the hot dogs Great and there's nothing better than having hot dogs for like a week and then coming back to that amazing flame and y'all It probably makes you appreciate you sets the palette right right right yeah okay baby it's just a palette refresher don't worry I love your flavor the best good

Starting point is 01:46:32 too it's like like being in a perfume store you need to smell coffee every now and then so what are you doing to promote this book now you said it's coming out in April it's coming out April 17 April so you're doing the rounds trying to go on the podcast and go out and speak and stuff and yeah said it's coming out in April. It's coming out April 17th April. So you're doing the rounds trying to go on the podcast and go out and speak and stuff and pump it out. Excellent man. Excellent.

Starting point is 01:46:50 Yeah, full court, full court press. I mean, I really, I really believe in it. I think as I said, I think it's one of the best things I've ever done. If not the best thing I've ever done. Very cool. Very cool. All this steak and hot dog talk,

Starting point is 01:47:00 where I'm going to have to have them. Yeah, it's going to be a fucking eat. Excellent brother. Thanks for coming on, man. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, that was amazing to be fucking neat. That's what I'm ready. Thanks for coming on man. You're gonna be there. I appreciate it. Yeah, perfect. That's great.

Starting point is 01:47:07 Alright, check it out. The Mind Pump Media app is now available at the app store. And also if you go to YouTube you can subscribe to our channel Mind Pump TV where we post fitness videos almost every single day. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media.com.

Starting point is 01:47:34 The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming, designed by Sal, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee

Starting point is 01:48:06 and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is MindPump. friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time this is Mindbomb.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 695: Aubrey Marcus Onnit Founder & CEO, Podcast Host & Author Returns

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