Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 722: Layne Norton- Confessions

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Hey, how many people are waiting for this interview? Dude. This was a very deep episode. I mean, we got to interview Lane Norton again. We had a great time with him the first time.

Starting point is 00:00:26 Was it a year ago or so, two years ago? Yeah, last time we got to drink this time. No, we went deep, he talked about like his divorce, cheating, what caused the divorce. He talked about, you know, what was it? Avatar nutrition a little bit. Yeah. He talked about what he's doing now, like the difficulties.

Starting point is 00:00:43 Lots of chaos. Like Lane got Very vulnerable and I will commend him for his honesty like he was we asked him questions that were to tough to answer And he was very honest with his answers I mean you as he was open. There was nothing that was off the table You're gonna hear a side of Lane on this episode that I don't think you've heard anywhere else. I don't think you've heard anywhere else Yeah, I'm not all made that claim. Yeah, for sure. I've listened a lot of lane for sure.

Starting point is 00:01:06 I thought he did really well with the questions that you get, you know, we're all at. Well, I think the first time, the first time we had to get it out with the whole getting drunk and hanging out because there was this, we had to break the ice a little bit. Because everyone thought that IFOI am, the anti-IFOI am guys and the IFOI am guy,

Starting point is 00:01:21 we're gonna go ahead to head on some shit. It's just like, no. World War Three. Right, so I think that was, there was a little more nerves in the room on that meeting versus this one where we kind of all knew each other. And I think you can tell in the interview,

Starting point is 00:01:33 I think we're definitely, they're definitely called any bullshit that anyone felt while they were talking and- Dude, this is fire. Yeah, it's a fire, it's a fire interview. It was a good job on Lane. So here's some of the places you can check them out. Of course, Lane Norton, you can go to bioLane.

Starting point is 00:01:49 That's biolayny.com. He's also released a book called the Complete Contest Prep Guide. Now, we've had a chance to kind of thumb through it, but we've seen lots of people's reactions to it, people who've already read it, and apparently it's bad ass. People are saying it's really good. Now, knowing Lane as well as we do,

Starting point is 00:02:12 and all the stuff he's put in producing the past, I can tell you this, I know Lane has done a very good job of making this as good as he possibly can. Oh, there's lots of heavy content in there. Good content, and the guy's got integrity. That's one thing that we respect with him the most. So you can get his book at biolainstore.com. We also did an IIFM video with him on our YouTube channel

Starting point is 00:02:36 which you'll find on Mind Pump TV. And it should be up there coming up soon. So stay tuned for that. But I mean, is there anything else to say? Yeah, you can also find him on his physique science radio too. So he has a podcast. I know he's not as consistent as we are on there, but he still gets some pretty high profile guests on there.

Starting point is 00:02:55 A lot of doctors, a lot of scientists that come on there and they talk about some great topics. So you can find his physique science radio on iTunes. That's right. And then before we get to the interview, I do wanna remind those of you listeners, this month you can get free access to our private forum for enrolling in any of our maps, bundles, of course, almost popular bundle,

Starting point is 00:03:15 is the super bundle, which includes a year of exercise programming, several maps programs you follow in succession for an entire year, mindPumpMedia.com. And without any further ado, here we are interviewing Lane Norton. You're training for a competition right now too, yeah? Well, I actually dropped out of the Arnold. Oh, you did. Well, because I aggravated my back. December. Dude, what's happening? You keep getting hurt and you're, do you, do you think there's mobility? Maybe some mobility shit going on? Well, you know, part of it is just when you lift heavy weights long enough. Shit happens, but I actually went and saw

Starting point is 00:03:55 It's a dis bulge that keeps getting aggravated and it's actually not even that bad of a bulge It's just when it gets flared up and it hits that nerve. It just locks you up So I actually went andoom McGill. Okay. Oh wait, that's McGill. He does a... Back mechanic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The back mechanic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The back. So what did he see? What did he see in here? What was the deal? It was really cool. It was me, him and Brian Carroll. I don't know if you guys know Brian Carroll.

Starting point is 00:04:21 But they just wrote a book together called the gift of injury so Brian Just give you some background Brian has squat over a thousand pounds. I think he was the first guy at two forty two to squat a thousand Oh shit, and then Equipped and then he went to two seventy five. I think he's squat over a thousand pounds of competition like 50 plus times I think he's the guy who's done it the most He so he got so bad that when he went, he tried all kinds of stuff, and finally Stu was like his last hope when he went to him. And it's actually a funny story because everybody on his MRIs and this, this Stu pulls up

Starting point is 00:04:58 his MRI and says, do you see anything weird here? His sacrum was broken. Oh, sure. And nobody else picked this up. No, he had in plate fractures and all of his vertebrae and like Well, because keep my when they're looking MRI They don't know what they don't even think about what to look for because they don't have context right he could be a 90-year-old man for all They know right so he had like crushed a disc split his sacrum So he had like crushed a disc split his sacrum

Starting point is 00:05:30 He had another disc and then had in plate fractures all over the place right and he's like y'all want to compete again It's two's like He's like, but why don't we just try to get you a pain free first and then let's cross that bridge We get there and less than a year later. He's quite a thousand pounds again Wow and actually what's crazy is in the book they show his MRI like a couple years later and it looks normal People don't realize this they get like herniated this and think it's crazy is in the book they show his MRI like a couple years later and it looks normal People don't realize this they get like herniated this and think it's like a decent. That's right. There's like spontaneous disk Resorption it happens, you know, well, they call it spontaneous because they don't know why they think they don't know why but I think when you change Recruitment patterns when you when you

Starting point is 00:06:05 That's like it set Sound of cancer Moadess smoke that drink down so That when you work on mobility and stuff you start to see people heal in pretty amazing ways What kind of things was was McGill doing with them? So actually one of the things that McGill said is is, like spine mobility is not what you want to do. If you're a power lifter, if you're a power lifter, he said spines do, they can do mobility well, and they can do stiff and rigid well. They don't do both together well, right? So, if you're a gymnast or somebody or some kind of athlete where spine mobility is really important, then yes, you want a mobile spine. He said, for a powerlifter, you want to be stiff rigid.

Starting point is 00:06:47 He said, looseness is the enemy of power. Sure. So what he did with Brian was basically like, never been your spine. Ever? Yeah. So like just basically get yourself used to being a rigid position.

Starting point is 00:07:00 I mean, even down to the point where, like when I got there, somebody spilled something on the floor, when Brian went down to clean it, I mean, he went like this point where like when I got there somebody spilled something on the floor when Brian went down to clean it I mean he went like this. I'm dropping to one knee. Oh, wow. And then he kind of like this right and he made sure he like he was braced cleaning it up like Very very diligent, but wow. Stu said, you know, well, you're talking about extreme athletes Somebody who's got a thousand pounds, right? This is how you would treat average person, I was right But Stu said, you know, one of the things you got to realize is that those disks sit inside a college in Matrix and when a bulge happens, it's because that matrix kind of starts to break down a little bit and that disc pokes through.

Starting point is 00:07:36 He's like, think about an orange. If you wanted to squeeze a seed out of a lemon, if you wanted to squeeze a seed out of a lemon, you're going to push on the opposite side. Right? So for power lifters, they always get at this bulge going this way. Right? So you want to prevent that spine bending because every time you bend that spine, you're wearing on that collagen matrix, right? Squeezing on the other end. Right. So, you know, he has three exercises that he's very big on for powelters, bird dogs, done properly, and he showed me how to do them properly

Starting point is 00:08:12 because I was doing them wrong. Everybody almost. Yeah, he said, you know, if you're doing a bird dog, right, you should be breaking a sweat within a, you know, a couple reps. Bird dogs, he calls what he calls the McGill Curl Up, which is basically like, not a sit up and not a crunch. That's a very slow each vertebrae Yeah, so you you're putting your hands under your back you're putting one leg out and you're just kind of

Starting point is 00:08:34 bracing your core thinking about pushing here and I'm pointing my obliques by the way and And then just getting tight here and barely just bringing your head up off the ground and then Side planks. It's what he has people do a lot of. But there's some other ones as well. So I went there, he looked over, well first off he didn't assessment on me. And by this time I was mostly pain free. Like I could aggravate it here and there, but I was pain free when I saw him.

Starting point is 00:09:00 And I told him that he said, don't worry, I'll find it. And yeah, he put me through like about an hour of an assessment and he found it. He's like what did he do that made it hurt? Man, it's hard for me to remember cuz he put me through so many things But like when he had me sit up stand down pull on a chair He put me in a hyper extension Flexion all of the kinds of things and finally like after kicking my legs one or two times I had a little twinge and he's like yep, you got nerve drag He's like the first time I he's like it's that first time that that nerve goes to that that

Starting point is 00:09:32 The canal I could be saying this wrong it dragged he's like but then so then he did it again And I didn't feel anything he's like yeah, once it goes to that one time. It's fine but yeah, he's like you got nerve drag son and He's like we're gonna see this this this, this, this, and this on the MRI. And he was dead on. He hadn't even seen it yet. And he was dead on. So.

Starting point is 00:09:53 So now you've been working with him? Yeah, so he actually, he said overall, I had a really great spine. He's like, you know, you don't have any scoliosis, you don't have any weird stuff going on. You know, he's like,, your spine is really great. And he said, I've never seen anybody in your position if they did everything I asked them to do

Starting point is 00:10:09 who did not get back to full strength. So, another nice thing he said, too, is because you know, I get all kinds of shit on the internet for the way I squat. He said, he's like, nah, you got, as you've gotten absolutely as much out of your frame as you can. The way you squat is exactly how you should squat.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Now, one of the things I've had problems with, when I get fatigued, is I tend to go into a little bit of flexion, and that's what's caused my problems. He said, but in terms of your forward lean and all that kind of stuff, he said, you have long legs. If you want to get to parallel, that's how you have to get to parallel. He's like, you would not do, based on the way your legs sit in your acetabulum, you would not do better going wider, you would lose power. So he's like, you've done, basically, you know, you managed to get out of the one. He's obviously speaking to you like a pro athlete, you know what I'm saying? Like you, you're somebody who cares about power totally different

Starting point is 00:10:58 than the way he probably would communicate with the average Jain or Joe. Yeah. Yeah, like if you went to him and you're like, listen, I'm done competing, but I want to be pain free. I want to be, you know, just be able to play with my kids or whatever. It'd be a different, a different story. Yeah, different story. I mean, you know, you can never tell somebody, hey, you're not going to injure yourself again because that's just not a reasonable thing to tell somebody shit happens. But, um, yeah, I've been doing the stuff. He's asked me to do every day short walks three, 10 minute walks a day, doing bird dogs and my guilt curl up and side planks afterwards.

Starting point is 00:11:28 And I've been pain-free, like completely pain-free for almost two months. How many times now have you had an injury like this stop you from being able to compete? Is this the third or fourth time? Third time. This is the third time? Yeah, very frustrating.

Starting point is 00:11:43 I know you've been asked this question and I see this a lot on your Instagram, which by the way, man, people either seem to love you or can't stand you. It's the best way to be, right? It's extremely fun. Maybe. Maybe it is, but, but, but, uh, I just tell you how I think. But yeah, true. Why do, uh, at what point do you think you'll be like, okay, I need to like stop. I need to stop doing this. Or is it because people tell you to stop that you're like, fuck, I'm gonna keep going Yeah, definitely the latter

Starting point is 00:12:07 That's good. You know that yeah, I mean I'm sitting here lying saying if I mean people who say oh, I don't care about anybody else says I kind of think people who say they're full shit to be honest with you everybody cares about what somebody else says to a certain extent sure I Don't care enough to let it affect me so much that I change the whole way I live my life. But yeah, I'm not going to sit here and say, I don't look, you know, maybe if so everybody just said, hey, great career man, you're awesome, great job. You did as much as you could. Probably wouldn't have that same fire to go back and prove people wrong.

Starting point is 00:12:39 Like that, you know, I live for a comeback. I love that, you know, so. I know last time we met with you, we talked, we had a long interview and you talked a lot about our longest. It was 4 hours. It was a massive day. We talked about how... I could have gone longer.

Starting point is 00:12:58 That's what she said. Exactly. You talked about how growing up you went through all this times of bullying where you were dealing with these people who were just fucking fucking with you the whole time Yeah, do you think that's why maybe somebody says don't do something now and you're like I'm gonna do it now Just you said hundred percent yeah, yeah, you could that be a if you if you don't want me to do something just tell me I did a good job Otherwise, I'm gonna fucking do it and tell you I did it. Remind you, would you told me I could do it? Like, that's one of the best things in life for me.

Starting point is 00:13:30 Like, you know, people could say, oh, well, you get somebody's psychoanalyze me and say, well, that's not healthy or this and that. The way I look at it is wherever you get drive from is a good thing, you know? So I couldn't let that. They might disagree just because you've been hurt so many times, that's it.

Starting point is 00:13:44 Yeah, well, listen to me. Well, I don't know, man, it's couldn't let that they might disagree just because you've been hurt so many times That's yeah Listen, well, I don't know man. It's not working out that well I'm not sure I was glad I went to stew because you know if he said to me Hey, listen, you're really teetering on the edge of no return in terms of not being able to live a pain-free lifestyle I really need to yeah, you probably re-evaluate that then then we'll have a different conversation Right, maybe maybe okay, maybe it's time to go back to bodybuilding or maybe do something else, right? But he said, there's no reason you can't get back

Starting point is 00:14:09 on the platform and compete at a high level. So somebody tells me that, if they just tell me all it takes is time, I'm a very diligent, focused, patient person. I mean, I've done a comeback before, I can do it again. And yeah, I love proving people wrong. That's that's the most favorite thing in the world for me. Where are you at right now in the recovery stage

Starting point is 00:14:30 right now? So are you how much longer that and then when will you start? Yeah we'll probably start spine loading again in a few weeks because I guess Brian is handling most of my recovery. But he communicates with Stu. I talked to him about possibly Ron Nationals in October and he said he thought that that was a good goal. I did Ron Nationals this past year. I got seventh in my class but that was the entire month before that was just a wash of training. It was garbage. That was when I had some business things going on that were very stressful, personal things that were very stressful.

Starting point is 00:15:11 And I did not have one productive training session the month before on Nationals and was dealing with multiple injuries. You've had like a avalanche of shit. Yeah, it was all came to, like we know what, like hold on, like I mean we don't want to gloss over this because any one of those things that's for free,

Starting point is 00:15:28 or somebody else. Well, well, it's just those are all, like if you list like the top five most stressful things you can go through in your life. I had three of them, but once, literally. You had three at the same time and all of them challenging your livelihood. And, you know, in fact, I know you're not,

Starting point is 00:15:43 we talked off air and I know there's, you know off-air and I know there's certain, you can talk about certain things, you can't talk about other things, but you're not with Avatar anymore. No, we have parted ways. You have parted ways. And that was a company you started if I'm not mistaken. I was a co-founder in it, yes. Co-founder. So that's it, no more, you're doing some other shit. You guys all cool? Um, I wish them best of luck. Okay, so I like that answer so yeah, but you know what now it's a blessing in disguise because now I get to focus on my own stuff You know, I think one of the big major mistakes I made in my life was Started investing too much in other people and I forgot about

Starting point is 00:16:22 What I got into this industry for. And like what my purpose was. And my purpose was, I wanted to help people. I wanted to put out really good content, and I wanted to make a difference. And so, you know. Do you feel like you can do that more now than before? Or do you think that you weren't able to do it before with the same kind of freedom that you can now?

Starting point is 00:16:40 I think that I can do it my way. And I can, you know, because I was very like- Because now it's just you, now it's just you. Now it's just me, like, I kind of looked at it like, man, like, it was really upsetting because I had this, I felt like I had this great thing that, I was part of this great thing that could really help a lot. People and I realized, I don't have to have that.

Starting point is 00:16:59 Like, I don't need permission to put out good content. You know what I mean? Like, I can still do that. And so I got back to it. And some of the best compliments I've been getting lately is people saying, I get complete strangers, message you may say, you seem like the lane from five years ago.

Starting point is 00:17:15 Like you seem like you're back. You seem like you're back to the guy that you were. You know, but the thing is like when you're going through personal shit or business shit or whatever, like it affects all your life. Like it's hard to separate. And especially me. I'm a kind of person. I wear my heart on my sleeve. You guys probably know this I'm a very open person and so Oh, I mean shockingly so I mean refreshing. I mean you did a I think it was on your YouTube channel where you talked about

Starting point is 00:17:42 Some of your personal issues with you with your divorce and what happened with that. And affair. And you put it on, you put it on your page and tell me what your thought process was and what you should. So I was really conflicted about that, not because I didn't want to be honest about what happened. More so because I know my kids will see that one day, you know, and I worry about kids in their classes, like if, you know, dad is more well-known than other kids will see that one day, you know? And I worry about kids in their classes,

Starting point is 00:18:06 like if, you know, dad is more well-known than other kids may use that to hurt them. Because I remember what kids would use to hurt me when I was young. But, you know, my ex had actually already put it out there. And, you know, she has a right to do that. So she went first? Yeah, she put it out there.

Starting point is 00:18:23 And she said a fair, he had a fair. Yeah, yeah. So, I didn't see no. There was a video. When, when did, when did that happen? So how long were you married, uh, up until you got divorced, obviously, what? Uh, eight and a half years. When did that, when did the affair happen into that marriage? Uh, more recent, more recent. Yeah. So it was towards the end of it. It was, yes, it was definitely towards the end of it.. So did you get, did you, did she catch you or did you tell her what happened? Uh, when it happened, the next week I asked for a horse because I, I'm not trying to act like, obviously, it was eating you up. I'm

Starting point is 00:19:00 definitely not an ethical warrior. You know, like, I've made, I made a must, like, no matter how unhappy you are, there's not an excuse to do that I've made, I'm a, no matter how unhappy you are, there's not an excuse to do that. But sometimes it's not so black. Five years ago, it's funny. I was a much more judgemental person because I would look at exactly that and say, you scumbag, if you were that unhappy,

Starting point is 00:19:19 why don't you just break up. And then you get into it and you got kids and you've got businesses and you want a house together and all that kind of stuff and it's just Sometimes you feel trapped, you know and But there's no excuse like I shouldn't I shouldn't have been a stronger person, you know But after it happened and I realized I didn't want to be married anymore. I I asked for divorce You know, so you so you you're the one that told her. This is what happened. I didn't tell her that it happened because

Starting point is 00:19:48 You know I don't maybe I, maybe I shouldn't have, but I was afraid that she would become very combative if I did that. You know, of course, and also like, of course it was a selfish thing like nobody wants to admit that they screwed up. That's just a single act when you really unpack it. There was probably much more going on for a lot longer with both you if you were unhappy I'm sure they're with the yeah, I don't want to go into the personal stuff cuz you know like All a lot of it was me too, you know what I mean like I didn't handle shit well. Yeah, so I don't want to put it all in her of course seem like she's bad

Starting point is 00:20:21 She's not a bad I rather I'd actually rather talk about you and what you've learned about yourself through that process. So two things. So, first off, like, so she, once I asked for divorce, she then went back and she then discovered why. So, and yeah, that was very difficult. But what have I learned? So, I've learned this.

Starting point is 00:20:54 I want to... You guys only have my word for it, but I always did the right thing in my life. Like, right down to like, I wouldn't even fucking litter. You know what I mean? And this was a really important thing. I fucked it up. You know what I mean? Like I didn't handle it the right way.

Starting point is 00:21:10 And I have to explain it to my kids one day. You know what I mean? And that's gonna be a hard conversation. I know that. But I've learned this. One, I'm really motivated to live the best life I can and treat people the right way because I screwed this up. And because integrity was so important for me and still is so important for me, even

Starting point is 00:21:28 though I screwed this up. And the second thing is shit compounds. Every time I've ever lied in my life or done something wrong, it has come back and bit me in the ass. Without fail, 100%. I believe in karma not from a spiritual standpoint, but just from a practical standpoint. Because here's the way it works. If you tell one lie, then you gotta tell two more

Starting point is 00:21:49 to cover that one up. And then you gotta tell four more to cover those two up. And then you gotta tell eight more. And it just, it just, eventually, is an avalanche, right? That's incredibly, that's what they call moral truth. You have objective truth, which comes from science and the scientific theory and testing hypothesis and whatever.

Starting point is 00:22:03 And then there's moral truth which has been with humans for thousands of years and is present in every culture and every major religion. And that is a fundamental rule that you see in all those things. And it's what separates us. It's what separates us. And talking about, look, I went through a divorce

Starting point is 00:22:18 also, it was made for 15 years. I know just how, especially with kids, how challenging it could be, it'll break. Well, the hardest thing is it'll probably be the hardest thing you'll ever do in your life. It is extremely difficult to go through. And, you know, it's funny, I was reading this book and I was reading about people with PTSD.

Starting point is 00:22:37 It's a big issue that we have nowadays. And the psychoanalyst that was talking about it said that many times the PTSD that soldiers are getting when they come back from war is not from them witnessing horrible things in war. It's from them who feel like they're good, you know, good people. Like I'm here to serve my country, I'm a good person, and then they go out in war and then they do something that is so uncharacteristic that it shatters their identity and they cannot reconcile the two. And so what the psychoanalyst says is, and he's a very famous one, he says,

Starting point is 00:23:09 the way that I help these people as I help them understand that that person who did those horrible things in war, is you also, you are all those things. How did you reconcile that? Being somebody who's so identified with integrity and being also somebody who cheated? Yeah, yeah, we call that our dark passenger, right?

Starting point is 00:23:31 So yeah, what I'll tell people is, you know, I think that I don't want to sit here and say everybody makes mistakes, but everybody does make mistakes. So Martin is big as the one I made, right? But I think that the difference is if you can learn from that and use that to be better, the worst thing in your life can become the best thing in your life. If you use it, right? And if you use it to make you better, because when we're born, we're a blank slate. The only way we learn is we do something and it works or we do something and it blows up in our face and we say, oh, ain't doing that again, right? So, uh, yeah,

Starting point is 00:24:10 learn my lesson. You know, and, and I've, I've been in therapy. I have a really good therapist who helped me understand a lot of things about myself too and why this actually happened, right? And, um, would you mind sharing some of the things you, because I feel like what you went through, you have a unique opportunity, and I'll tell you why. I think, again, being somebody who went through a divorce, there weren't very many resources or things that could hear about, especially from a male perspective. There just isn't. We tend to be the, many times, we tend to be the bad guy.

Starting point is 00:24:43 Yeah. And there's two sides to most stories, okay? Yeah. And I feel like you're in a unique opportunity to help other people in who might be in a situation like yours and there's a lot more than you think. I talked to, when I tell people, when I tell guys, I was divorced after 15 years, all of a sudden, they feel like they can tell me now.

Starting point is 00:25:04 And I hear the shit and I'm like, wow, divorced after 15 years. All of a sudden they feel like they can tell me now. And I hear the shit. I'm like, wow, this is way more common. I've gotten so many messages from men and women, actually, like who have been on both sides of it. There's been a few that have been disrespectful, but for the most part, people said, you know, even like women who had had that happen to them said, I just wish my husband could have admitted it.

Starting point is 00:25:23 Or just wish he would have taken responsibility for it. I actually kids too of parents who had a fairies have said that. I've had some people go on my Instagram and call me a scumbag and all that kind of stuff. And you know, that's... Do you think you would have been one of those people? No, I wouldn't...

Starting point is 00:25:38 You would have thought it. I might have thought it, but I don't usually go out on my way to like get nasty about it. Because at the end of the day, I would still go, you know what, I didn't live with them. I don't know what the deal was so that's true Like I think there's a few no-goes, you know, you beat your partner. I think that's a really go You know what I mean? Yeah, you're obvious really obvious shit. Yeah, like that that I think that that's a pretty really nasty shitty thing to do kill people

Starting point is 00:26:00 That's a no-go, you know, so Well, there's more than one way to leave a, there's more than one way to leave a relationship. That's what I was alluding to that a lot of times that people don't talk about that. I mean, you can emotionally cheat on somebody too. It doesn't always have to be a physical act. In fact, when that's out, it's started. In fact, when men and women, I obviously dig deep in all this shit after going through mine, when men and women are questioned on, there's actually one question

Starting point is 00:26:25 that the last men and women. And generally, you can predict if a woman is answering this question or if a man is answering the question. The question is, would you rather your partner fall in love with someone but not have physical sex or contact with them? Or would you rather that they don't fall in love with them, but they just have meaningless sex? Men would rather their wives or girlfriends fall in love

Starting point is 00:26:47 and not have sex and men are the opposite. Men would rather their wives and girlfriends fall in love, but not have sex, you know, type of this. So it's the opposite for each gender. And there's all kinds of reasoning behind that and all that kind of stuff. So there's definitely more than one way, though, to leave a relationship.

Starting point is 00:27:03 But I want to ask you like like going through these therapy sessions, because I know me that the two years post divorce, there's a lot of shit I learned about myself. No, it's so funny. Everybody said it takes two years into your back normal. And I mean, and it really is about two years since all this shit started. Starting to feel like you're coming out of the clouds. Yeah, start to feel like I'm getting back to normal. Bro, I was walking around like I was in cement.

Starting point is 00:27:24 You know, I was functioning at 30%. Yeah. And luckily I have these gentlemen right here that I was working with that kind of held me up. But what did you learn about yourself going through therapy? Like what are some of the, what are some of the things you learned

Starting point is 00:27:37 through this whole process? That, well one, you talk about PTSD. My therapist said you have, there's an actual, there's another term for it when it comes to bullying, but she's like, you basically have PTSD from bullying, you know? Oh, I believe them. And, oh, I saw when we first talked.

Starting point is 00:27:51 And no, just just like, I'm not trying to put it on the same levels or our military members or anything like that. I don't want to be sound disrespectful. You know, I think it's called AP, I can't remember the acronym for it. There's a specific one for bullying, okay? And one of the reasons was, is one of my triggers is,

Starting point is 00:28:11 one, I have a really difficult time speaking my mind to my relationship partner. Like, I have a very, I have a hard time, especially with like strong women. I have a really hard time speaking up and like standing up for myself. I have a really hard time with that. Like it's just ironic. I feel like because you have no problem standing up to anybody and everybody comes

Starting point is 00:28:34 after you. It's a guy. No problem. It's a girl. Like I'll literally like, um, like I'm sure I'll get messages making fun of me, but I'll literally like get like sweaty and have like jitters if I have to say something. Yeah, really nervous You know, and did you have a good relationship with your mom does it come from that or was it just from I have a good relationship with mom I have a great relationship with my mom, but she's very strong willed and You know so that that was probably part of it, you know But mom doesn't listen to this And, you know, so that was probably part of it, you know, but, oh mom doesn't listen to this. I love mom, like mom.

Starting point is 00:29:10 You're mom listens to my mom. We make a t-shirt, it says. You need mom, like my mom. My mom is a wonderful. Your mom listens to mine, folks. But in all, all services, like my mom is a wonderful person, but like, I don't respond to criticism well because it's, it's, you learn this through therapy. Yeah, you could ask me

Starting point is 00:29:31 Well, especially like Like I would get defensive, you know, and it's it's It's a protection mechanism, you know from from being younger and that's like You know going through that we kind of went through counseling as we went through divorce. And it was like, you know, looking back, you know, and I don't want to say too much about it, but, um, yeah, I would at times like, like trying to talk to her, watch, like completely freeze up, and I couldn't talk, you know, and my therapist like, why, why, you need to be able to say something. And I'm like,

Starting point is 00:30:11 bathroom. So yeah, I learned these things about myself. And I'm working on that, you know, I do work on, you know, being able to, to say what I need to say in a relationship, those sorts of things. Because you're now you're in a pretty committed relationship, you guys both you and your partner now seem like you're very... Yeah, and she's actually like part of the reason we work well is she frames things very well, Holly frames things very well, like for example, and I'm not trying to disparage my last relationship. We were young. We got married We just didn't have a lot of tools man when you develop a pattern with somebody it's hard to break

Starting point is 00:30:50 It's very hard to break even if you have the tools after that It's like when you see your sibling after you haven't seen them for five years and you're 12 years old again And now you're fighting over the same bullshit. Same thing. So She usually frames things not as criticism, but it's like suggestions She's like it's not why did you do it this way? It's, well have you considered this? You know, and it's funny how just like that framing things can be difficult, but or it can make things better.

Starting point is 00:31:14 But I mean, you know, she's been with me like going through all the, all a lot of this go like the most stressful stuff. And like it's been stressful for both of us because you know she's from fucking lane so she's she's from uh from Australia so you know she moved her whole life over here you know that's that's very stressful and then you know like i was with a guy going through a lot of shit too a lot of shit i'd be scared to live with you bro one yeah you know probably well trust me a lot of my too. I'd be scared to live with you. Yeah. Well trust me. You're definitely moving up. You're leveling up on that one.

Starting point is 00:31:51 I mean fuck dude. We'll be putting it down really well or something. God. Holly is such a reserved person if she hears. If she hears you say that. Her face will be the color that sure. no disrespect you guys are better she's awesome so and you guys got together shortly after the divorce right no I'm still going through you're still going so it's so well you you openly admitted that you openly said that what she was the one right didn't you say that yeah I mean I mean people will put two and two together. Right, right. So I've seen you communicate that. You know, do you, because you know, and first off, I want to commend you on being as honest as you are right now. I that's a very difficult thing to do and I really appreciate it. I think a

Starting point is 00:32:38 lot of people are going to get to learn a lot about you and a lot about maybe their own situations from this and you know, saying what you're saying about your difficulty speaking to strong women and how that would make you freeze up and how that's, you know, probably the result of, you know, your past bullying and stuff like that. Do you fear maybe being manipulated by women? Do you feel like, oh shit, now I'm in this vulnerable position. I'm with this woman. I really in love with her, is that something

Starting point is 00:33:05 you have to work through? Like, am I going to be manipulated? Am I going to be a problem? It definitely could be a problem. I have been manipulated by people, not specifically women, but just in general, you know, because I tend to be a really trusting, like I give everybody the benefit of the doubt. And it bites me in the ass quite a bit. Again, I don't want to get into specifics, but let me just say that if she was trying to manipulate me, it would already happen. Because nobody would have wanted to been around for the last six months of what I went through. So, yeah, I know, like she, and she's like a go getter herself.

Starting point is 00:33:44 Like she on throwing business, she, you know, she and she's like a go get it herself like she own trolling business. She you know she puts it down. She's very motivated like we have the same goal. She wants to change the world you know she wants to be able to put good information out to people you know yeah it's just you know sometimes you just click with somebody. Yeah how much harder would it have been going through this if you hadn't if you didn't have someone like her there next to you? Oh God.

Starting point is 00:34:08 Yeah, yeah. It would have been very difficult, very difficult, very, very difficult. Yeah. So it was, you know, again, it's one of those things that at the end of the day, I'm gonna be grateful of all the stuff that happened just because, man, now it's like, now once you're kind of on the other side of it, you can go, shit, if I can get through that.

Starting point is 00:34:32 A lot of other stuff I can get through. You know what I mean? Like, it's kind of, I talked about this. It's kind of like building up confidence in yourself, you know what I mean? Like, you, it's like when you, like, when I first started lifting weights, got a little bit bigger, hit some numbers, then did a body plank show, won that. Then I did well in school, did well in college, gotten to a good PhD program, won my pro-court. It's one of those is a big challenge.

Starting point is 00:34:59 Big challenge is just kind of building, building, building, building, building, because I had low confidence on this kid, but it was building that confidence. And so even when I was going through a lot of this stuff, you know, these business problems, personal problems, friends bailing on me, all this kind of stuff, some friends treated me like I was fucking radioactive, friends, quotations, and some straightups stabbed me in the back. You want to know, you want to, you want to figure out real quick who you're good friends? Oh yeah, that happened. Go through some real fast, yeah. And you'll know, you'll know want to figure out real quick who you're good friends. Oh, yeah That happened through the real fast

Starting point is 00:35:25 Yeah, and you'll know you'll know right away who the real people are blessing blessing Have you got to a point where you feel like a lot of this shit? You've attracted yourself hundred percent so this all started because I didn't deal with shit Right because I just kept putting off it It'll be okay. It'll be okay. It'll be okay It'll be okay, and I didn't clean up my own messes. You know what I mean? Holy shit. You know what's interesting about this is that, and again, this is a subject that I've gotten into. When you're in this relationship, this marriage putting things off, those are almost like little lies in the sense that you're not being your true self. You're lying to yourself. And that, one of those things, like when you break,

Starting point is 00:36:08 when you start to break one piece of your foundation who you are, it becomes easier to break another piece and it becomes easier for it to shatter. So it's almost like you led yourself down a path of. That is 100% correct. Like regardless of stuff that happened and people who may have ran out of betrayed me or people who did bad shit to me, I allowed it to happen because

Starting point is 00:36:30 I didn't clean up my own shit. You know what I mean? Like I just, I, situations that weren't where they were supposed to be, I kept saying it'll get better. Nothing's gonna get better without energy, without putting, without putting stuff into it, you know what I mean? And business saying, oh this little, this little, no, it's not gonna take care of itself, you know? And then when it got to the point where, you know, I was in a bad place and I started like longing about things and all that kind of stuff, like then it just created this mess. Yes, some people took advantage of me, some people stabbed me in the back, but I, the situation I created allowed that stuff to happen

Starting point is 00:37:08 and allowed it to harm me. You know what I mean? If I'd been in a stronger position, it wouldn't be able to happen. Since you've had this awareness, have you had a situation that's kind of triggered that where you caught it where you're like, oh fuck. I'm gonna stop this before.

Starting point is 00:37:19 Yeah, and you've had one of those times. Now that you're aware of this. Yeah, yeah, like things like, like, things like, this is a land mine. Don't step on it. You know, yeah, 100%, 100%. You know, like, again, you know, hopefully, like, two quotes that I would, that I really like, I forget where the first one's from,

Starting point is 00:37:38 but it's like, something is painful to remind you not to do that shit again, right? So I can tell you, I am never doing that shit again. Like I had a guy who messaged me. I had a guy who sexed me while you're talking to me right now. No, no. Are you fucking sexed on your phone while you're talking to me? Definitely, definitely not.

Starting point is 00:37:57 Does that be nice right now? I'm gonna put people on the personal shit if you want. No, I was, my daughter's had a little bit of a talk with you. I was asked with the kids. She's a daycare and I wanted to make sure she wasn't You did make me feel like a day Yeah, you piece of shit No, it's okay, and everybody makes mistakes So you know stuff is cuz I had a guy message me and he's like hey man

Starting point is 00:38:20 I'm almost in the same position you are like you know I'm in love with this girl But I'm married, but I got to I'm like don't do it dude Get out if you're if you're if you are if you can't make it work where you're at then get out and Don't do the affair. I'm telling you it you might think like it will bite you in the ass Not even the emotional affair like that you got you have a very Even if you don't get caught, it poisons. It's poisons you. It poisons you. I still, every single day I get mad at myself every day

Starting point is 00:38:52 and feel guilty. And, but I can either, I could, like, I had people giving me shit about the Valentine's Day post I ran about a holly. And I said to some people, listen, I get, like, I understand. Wait, which post? All the nice ones. I just wrote one nice about her. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, people call us bad people whenever I said to some people, listen, I get, like, I understand. Which part? All the lines won't do. I just wrote one nice about it.

Starting point is 00:39:06 And people call us bad people whenever I said, listen, what do you want me to do? I've said it was my fault. I learned from it. I'm gonna not make these mistakes again. It was my fault. So what do you want from me now? You know what it is?

Starting point is 00:39:22 Do you want me to lay on hot coals? Do you want me to be miserable the rest of my life? Should I not be able to be with somebody who I love? It's because what it is is that you're very straightforward and you're clear and people wanna see pain. They feel like, it's almost like you're a bit of an argument with someone and you're wrong. You're like, listen, I'm sorry,

Starting point is 00:39:41 but it's not enough for them. They wanna feel like, but I don't feel like you're sorry I really am rip you to show that there is talk about the like like There was go ahead. There was a lot of pain. It's just you know, I'm not What am I gonna do sit there and wind about the fact that I had an affair like nobody gonna feel sorry for me Yeah, you know what I mean? So there's no point. Yeah, like you have to at one point right at one point You got to forgive yourself at one point you have that was hard. That was hard That's the hardest part

Starting point is 00:40:08 I think I think it's easy for us to look at all the shit and go oh it's not repeat that again But really it's it's rooted in so so things are painful to remind us not to do that shit again And then you know what Eric Thomas says is when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of change That's when we change, you you know so there's another quote that has something to do like the pain of remaining a bud became too strong and it bloomed or something like that similar type of thing but so yeah but you know what all that shit you know like Kibera stand over here he basically like he became my video guy right as my life was blowing up but I tried to tell him he moved down for me and I'm like bro my life's a shit show. You know, it hasn't always been this way.

Starting point is 00:40:47 There's a lot of good video content. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure he was excited about this. Yeah, he's like, I got the Ricky Lake of fitness. Yeah, I mean, talk about, I want to hear about, you are the father. I want to hear about though, I want to, because this I don't even know. I don't even know. You are the father. Oh my God. No. I want to hear about though, I want to, because this is the part that a lot of people

Starting point is 00:41:10 don't talk about is the, how the stress of that affects you physically. Oh, mentally. Like, you're sleep, you're, like let's talk about that for a second. Like how, how was all that? How did you, how did you physically feel? Like, how was your sleep?

Starting point is 00:41:25 Was your, I'd sleep okay, just cause I was fucking exhausted by the end of every day, cause I was just emotionally drained every single day, you know, but yeah, like, you know, normally, like, like I was getting ready for raw nationals, no one of them getting ready for a big meet like that. Like when I had my training session, I've looked at my training session,

Starting point is 00:41:41 I know what I'm gonna do when I get in the gym, I visualize, I didn't even look at my training session until I'd gotten warmed up. It was getting ready to go. You know, like there was no focus towards that. I didn't even think about Ron Nationals to probably a week before it happened, you know? And I put up a post, I think, two days ago,

Starting point is 00:41:57 about my last deadlift attempt at Ron Nationals. I actually ended up squatting 655, got called on depth. I still think it was a good squad. But they had misloaded the bar. Like I called for 650 squatting 655, got cold on depth. I still think it was a good squad. But they had misloaded the bar. Like I called for 650 and they actually put an extra five on one side and I didn't get a relift. But what? Yeah, listen, you know, shit happens, right?

Starting point is 00:42:17 People make mistakes. Like the guy who misloaded it actually came up and apologized and he felt really bad. I was like, again, now having gone through that. Like this is a microcosm, right? It's like, hey man, I don't think you tried to purposely like mess me up, right? You used it in there low in thousands of times

Starting point is 00:42:33 over the course of a week, like shit happens. Wow. So just a lot of shit happens to you though. Yeah, fuck, man. But like I, and then I had strained my pack like a week out so I had to take a token bench. And I was like, you know what? I kind of, so I refocused myself. I said, okay.

Starting point is 00:42:52 Now we're being excused to mentally check out. So I was like, what's fucking get a deadlift PR? I had no, a week out from the meat. I, you were there. I missed 585 on a deadlift, didn't I? Yeah. I missed 585 on a deadlift. I pulled 716 on my last pull. You were there. I missed 5.85 on a deadlift, didn't I? Yeah. I missed 5.85 on a deadlift. I pulled 7.16 on my last pull. I just, I just, I just, I funneled everything I had. I just, all the rage, passion, love, hate, everything I had. And I just put it in

Starting point is 00:43:17 that one lift. I'm like, I'm fucking not missing this lift. I'm going to go home happy day. I saw that lift. You dropped your knees. Yeah, a lot of emotion with that. I went backstage and Holly goes, where the fuck did that come from? I don't know, but it's like, I kind of look at that as, I try to use that stuff as like, how can I re-challenge myself, refocus my stuff?

Starting point is 00:43:42 Because people out there, yeah, you got your plan A and whatever, but plan A sometimes go fuck up, you know? So you better be able to take that and go, okay, how can I refocus myself to something else, right? So the best thing that's come out of this shit is, you know, we're talking desperation makes for great motivation, right? So when all these business things went down,

Starting point is 00:44:01 these personal things went down, I just have a lot of monetary problems as well, because everything is connected, right? And so my friend Peter Baker, I've known him for six, seven years, and he does a lot of fitness writing. He's like, who thought about writing a book? At this point, I'm like, fuck it, let's do it.

Starting point is 00:44:26 So we started a book on contest prep. We wrote it eight weeks, 264 pages, I think it is. We wrote eight weeks, it's just a finish. Yeah, you seem to run. That's crushing. You seem to run on one speed, like fast forward turbo, all the time. Which, you know, this is a quote that, you know, we say all the time on mind pump,

Starting point is 00:44:48 which is your greatest strength can be your greatest weakness. Yeah, yeah. Do you have another speed? Like, do you ever think to yourself, maybe I need to like, learn how to like, you get the, get the parasympathetic to kick into chill to like. Yeah. So that's actually something that Holly's been really good at

Starting point is 00:45:05 is getting me to be like, you know, take walks on the beach. There's more. There's more. Yeah. There's more to life than like, you know, we want to do something really great, but if you're dead at 40 because you're just burning yourself

Starting point is 00:45:20 into the ground, you know, and also like, yourself into the ground, you know? And also like, being objective with yourself and trying to make qualitative statements, but I was never a bad dad, but I would always be distracted. You know, I was on my phone, I was, you know, I'd always, okay, what do I have with business, what I have with business, what I have with business? Why'd you choose those words? What's that? You're not a bad dad. Why would you even say that? Well, because I should've done a lot better

Starting point is 00:45:49 when my kids, when Robert was young. Was that your own guilt that you put on yourself or is that other people telling you? Just, just, there were reasons I was distracted one being unhappy and whatnot. But being very focused on what I wanted to do with my life and my business and whatnot. And all these actually been very good at being able to say,

Starting point is 00:46:15 when we're working, we're working. If we have the kids, we're with the kids. That's sort of stuff, which I was never very good at. And I still have my moments. I'll still pick up my phone and kind of But I've gotten much better about being able to say you can go away for a little while And not nothing then I was gonna happen the next 30 minutes. That's gonna change my life So you better dad now than you were before do you think so? My friends have commented on it. I've experienced that that's actually a common thing many times is after doing something like that, you reevaluate

Starting point is 00:46:48 everything and start to try to be a lot better. I think my relationship with my kids is a lot better. I want to hear you explain something that I just can't wrap my brain all the way around and you're a science guy, you're a great guy to ask this and you kind of made a statement kind of glazing over it, which was when you did this deadlift, you pulled all this energy for this anger, this sad, all this stuff all into the end. You had this amazing lift. I don't know what the fuck is that?

Starting point is 00:47:14 I don't know. It's hard to describe. And do you believe maybe that like there are thoughts and all these things like that could actually hell yeah. I mean like I'm not not gonna deadlift 800 pounds just because I will have to happen, you know what I mean? But within a certain, to get the absolute most out of your performance, you've got to be able to pull that, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:47:33 Same thing, like, I feel like when you have moments. I put up a post the other day, I said, you know, I think it's something like champions or winners find a way to find gas and the tank that's empty. You know what I mean? Like, you just can you reach down for that? Do you have that other gear? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:47:52 And a lot of, I don't want to call myself a lead because people will get me shit about it. But a lot of elite athletes will talk about that. You know, like Jordan, he would say, you know, when it was crutch time, like he'd have these amazing performances and people would be like, how did you like, and you do me like, I don't know, you know, he's like the, the gold just look big, you know what I mean? It's just that hyper focus, you know what I mean? And you, but you can't have that gear all are there. You know, you're, we all have these like, these, these limiters on our bodies to prevent us from hurting ourselves. But if your mind and your, your mind believes that it is a matter of life or death, then at that point it becomes, you know, the risk is okay now because this is life or death,

Starting point is 00:48:42 you're trying to escape the teeth of a lion or whatever. So would you say at that moment when you did that lift that you literally felt like life or death? Yeah, like I can get my hair on the back of my neck to stand up before I go for a big lift like that. Yeah, but I can't do it every time. Like I'll be pretty amped up, but to get to that like literally 100% completely focused, you've

Starting point is 00:49:07 got as much adrenaline running through your system as you possibly can, you know, like that's, and to be under control too, that's the hard part, right? To be able to do that, but still execute your technique and be under control, that's what's really hard. Have you fucked with meditation at all yet? Not as much as I probably should. Because I believe that's learning to control that right there. A lot of that is learning to figure that wind,

Starting point is 00:49:30 wind to release that and wind to calm yourself when you need to be calm. Because a lot of times our bodies go into this fly-to-fight situation when it's probably not always optimal anymore. We're not always being chased by lions like Sal, it's not about a lot of times it's just some bullshit stress that somebody else is putting on you

Starting point is 00:49:45 and you don't wanna go into that. Ah! Road. And you need to be able to calm. And then there's times when you need to call upon it and rip fucking 700-something pounds off. Yeah. Well, and that's a great point.

Starting point is 00:49:56 Like, that's part of the reason we're living, not, probably not living as long, right? Because like, we get that adrenaline dump, that fight or flight response, but it's because we're late for something or you know your kids throwing up or and that shit didn't exist pal's as well. Well what happens with a lot of people is we say we don't like it but the reality is and I can hear this in me voice you fucking love it. Oh I love that feeling. Not not what I'm stressed out but like the controlled stress, like I tell people like,

Starting point is 00:50:27 that shit feels good, cataclysm, porters all, it makes you feel. Nothing better than that. Right. There was, do you guys ever watch the Ultimate Fighter? Yeah, of course. So do you remember the season of Servers?

Starting point is 00:50:37 Is he used to? Do you remember those like season five? Oh, back in the day, yeah, yeah, yeah. So War Machine, now he's fucking weirdo. But there was a great line in this. I don't know if you ever caught it from Matt Sarah and like John Copenhagen was like getting sick before his fight like got a five-gum bucket like throwing up He's like, man, I can't I can't do this no my I can't And Matt Sarah's like, dude, what are you talking about? That is the feeling of being alive

Starting point is 00:51:02 You care about something that much that it's making you physically ill. He's like, most people never get that. It's like you should be grateful for that. And that totally changed my mind about how I approach competition and when I'm nervous or anything like that. And I'm like, when I start getting those nerves for competition, I get excited. Like I'm anxious, but I'm fucking excited. Because I know that that's part of what is going to make me do well. You know what I mean? Like it's a good thing. I perceive it as a good thing. And people, you know, the same thing, they'll talk to elite athletes and elite athletes. Everybody gets nervous before competition, but it's how you perceive it. They make the difference. You know where they have a hard time though is separating this addiction that you we have.

Starting point is 00:51:45 time though is separating this addiction that you we have that a lot of athletes have for that rush that we're talking about how to separate that from life. And what ends up happening is you seek out things, you self-savotage and you don't realize it because subconsciously you like that feeling. You like that fucking feeling. You like putting yourself in a corner. You like being the underdog. You like the shower shower. Oh, he's just like, analyze me right to the bone. Yeah. I mean, Paul said it. One of my good friends, Paul Amela, he said, you do best when you're the underdog.

Starting point is 00:52:12 When you're, when you're, when people don't think you can do it, when you're backs against the wall, that's when you're at your best. He's like, so you, but I mean, like, people give Jordan a hard time, right? Because he would like take anything, but like saying you could have done with Jordan just don't say anything.

Starting point is 00:52:27 Don't even give him a compliment. Just don't say anything. Because anything you said, he was gonna turn that around and somehow use it as you're the enemy and you're disrespecting him. I put a Jordan quote up yesterday. I'm a huge Jordan fan, but I'll tell you that that the things that I quote or I think

Starting point is 00:52:43 or I love about him is the athletic side of him, but that guy had a pretty fucked up personal life himself. He's got a lot of drama and shit that nobody talks about. We celebrate what he did on the court because he's arguably the greatest of all time revolutionized the game, but I bet you we're in the shoes.

Starting point is 00:53:01 Right, that's right. I'm a big fan for sure, but I bet if we were to psychoanalyze him and sit him down, I bet you that motherfucker's got a lot of regret in his life and probably isn't the best father and probably has a lot of shit. So sometimes when we attach ourselves to these professional athletes,

Starting point is 00:53:17 and I'm learning this even more now that we're in this podcasting world because we get the privilege to travel and meet a lot of really brilliant minds and talented smart people. And the more I see the exceptional people, the more I see the dysfunction too. Because it takes that to be so, you gotta be kind of crazy a little bit

Starting point is 00:53:36 to be so great at this, but you always end up, there's always a cause and effect. You know, you're super, super great at this sport because you've dedicated your whole life to it. Well, what's the sacrifice when you dedicate your whole life to this craft? Well, you're probably not going to be the best father. Well, you're probably not going to be the best husband. You're probably not going to be the, and so that won't be tough. Yeah, it's fucking really tough. So what I think is I think you have, when

Starting point is 00:53:59 you have the ability to tap into something that can give you that laser focus, that can give you success, you've tapped into a power can give you that laser focus, that can give you success. You've tapped into a power. I think that all people have, we just don't all know how to harness it or how to touch upon it. The problem is falling in love with that feeling and then that feeling being used like a drug

Starting point is 00:54:19 where it's addicting and then you place yourself in situations that are not good for you but because they elicit that feeling now, you're in them all the time. And so you see this all the time with, like Adam said, these very successful individuals who have some fucked up other shit, and it's literally because they can't separate the two. Well, I'll give you an example of that, like, you know, like I thought about when I entered my back, and I'm like, man, what's this is it? Like, where's my identity now? Fortunately, I have other things in my life. Like, I'm also known as a scientist or a

Starting point is 00:54:54 writer or content other things I can fall back on but like you know for some people like Brian Brian Carol in the book he talks about like He walked out of a doctor's office After like the guy just basically blew him off and was like yeah We can do surgery, but you're never gonna be able to lift heavy again, regardless. And Brian's like, I had my Glock 23 in my glove box and I was seriously thinking about it in my life. He talks about this in the book. And it's because like you said, like that's, you love that high. That is your identity.

Starting point is 00:55:16 And if you can't get it, like, some people, like this isn't true, but what's the point, right? But that's like, I heard it quote one time, and I forget who said it was like, invent yourself, then reinvent yourself, right? So that's like I heard it quote one time I forget who said it was like and vent yourself Then reinvent yourself right so that's like part of it. So who are you now? You've been reinvented. Yeah, I think I'm going back to more of what I was oh Shit don't say that bro

Starting point is 00:55:41 Hey, ramblings. I have no respect for a a man that's no wiser today than he was yesterday. Well, with more knowledge. Yeah. So, but I really liked what I was back then. Like, it was really, you know, let's focused on the right things. So, I think that's what all those things. Um, being involved with people I love, working really hard, knowing the limits of that, and just being involved in positive shit, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:56:11 Like, contributing, like that's what I wanna do. I'm not gonna sit here and say I don't like money. Everybody likes work. But I like money more so, I mean, I didn't drive it today, but I still got my Grand School car, you know? I still drive my 2003 old wheel arrow. Like, I look at money as,

Starting point is 00:56:29 so I don't dog anybody who likes nice stuff. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, I look at money, is that, give me, look at me like that, bro. I'm like, look, look over at my J's and shit on there. I see you, bro.

Starting point is 00:56:41 I see you, bro. So, well, money, money has no, it gives you the opportunity to do cool shit is the way I look at it. But it's worth nothing if you're, if you're, if your soul feels corrupted. That's right.

Starting point is 00:56:52 You know, and we know that we know that there's a, I could, I could name off, you know, I don't know how many celebrities who killed themselves and they had all the money in the world. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a saying like, they say money doesn't buy a happiness, but I don't see this motherfucker frowning,

Starting point is 00:57:07 and it's like a guy in a 50 foot yacht with a bunch of beautiful women on it, you know? But I know what you're saying. Like, but for me, like, if I have more money, it gives me more freedom to be creative and take risks and do stuff that's cool. You know what I mean? Which is what I really like, you know.

Starting point is 00:57:23 So at the end of the day, like, you know, I have very few hobbies. I love what I really like. So at the end of the day, like, I have very few hobbies. I love what I do. I like to shoot guns. I like to go fishing. I like to spend time with my girlfriend and friends, pretty much the same shit that everybody else does, minus the guns and the fishing because I don't have a right to do that.

Starting point is 00:57:40 But I'm with libertarians. I'm pretty sure that we're all all those guys living the people's Republican culture. I love as long I love I love that you love things and you can do them And you should be able to that's what I love and I think that should be for everybody But you know you're you're you've got this relationship that you're in now you've referred to several times and it's obvious that you This is a place you feel like you're you're in a good space with this individual and you have your do you have your kids half time or are you yeah I get I have part custody part custody and so I'm assuming when you have the kids around you have you know your girls around at the same time so you have

Starting point is 00:58:15 Holly with the kids and how does that work out for you yeah well that could be that could be I'm going through that that. That can be a trend. What's the word? Well, the future thing is there they're they're real young. So, you know, they don't. I don't want to say the wrong thing here. They younger than five. Yeah. So, I, they, you know, it's we've done a lot of work on, okay, how do we do this? So it's, you know, all it is just somebody who loves and cares for the kids and she's not mom. She's not intended to replace mom in any way, shape or form. She's just a caretaker who really loves the kids. And you know, it was, it was, uh, and she's accepted that role. She said, Hey, I want to be in their lives as well. Yeah. Well, and we, we, you know, that's special. It's, it's hard to like, it's a, it's an adjustment period for anybody

Starting point is 00:59:14 on all ends. The kids be her. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, they, they get along great, you know, so that she want kids over all. I know you guys are, I mean, I'm just maybe too early to ask, but, you know. God damn. Yeah. You know, you're gonna get a therapy session doing what you're talking to mom. Well, I thought just the challenges that you go through with your relationship after having. I've gone, I mean, these are things that we talk about. I talk about microphone problems.

Starting point is 00:59:49 Speaking of macro talk and stuff like that, I feel like you're posts, some of you're posts lately. I thought, did I see a performance of die-coping? And did I see some shit like that? Talk about the microbiome. Yeah, did I see something? I feel like Holly's influencing you in another way. It's going on.

Starting point is 01:00:04 I feel like Holly might be a real mind-publicer. I don't know. Well, you know. Let's talk about that. So, well, now, one thing, there was actually this. Oh, okay. I think, oh, you know what my answer is. I just come right out the cup.

Starting point is 01:00:20 I'm just watching your brain turn right now. You're going to go like that. You got to think, right? And Chris isn't, you just activated my PTSD. Yeah, I got to defend myself. Oh, oh, oh. So there was a study that came out recently when they actually looked at flexible dieting

Starting point is 01:00:34 versus just straight meal plan. They actually found bulk groups actually had some deficiencies, which actually, by the way, it's really hard to eat and not have some kind of, not like frank deficiency, but like a small deficiency of micronutrients. It's actually, I'm not sure if you're talking about more common ones,

Starting point is 01:00:54 which nutrient deficiencies you define? Iron is one, it's pretty common, vitamin D, pretty common. It is a big one. You know, especially even people who are eating enough if they live in cold weather, whether in sign-a-log. Um, was it a vitamin K magnesium? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:14 Sometimes, yeah. So anyways, but it found that, you know, the actual flexible diet in group was a little bit better for micronutrient distribution because Registria sent meal plan. They have more variety. More variety. Yeah. So, what I will qualify things with is I will say, when I say that, you know, I'm a fan of flexible dieting and people try their macros, I'm not saying this and this other stuff

Starting point is 01:01:37 isn't important either. I'm just saying that your total daily calorie intake and macronutrient intake is the most important thing. That doesn't mean that everything else is unimportant, right? So what I'm saying is this is our first tier. Let's start here making sure your calories are correct. Then your macros, then let's start worried about some of the other stuff, right?

Starting point is 01:01:57 So we tear it. And so yeah, of course, macronutrients are important. I've just never seen, like as far as the gut microbiome goes. Yeah, what do you think about all that? Because the science on that's fucking compelling, right? Well, it's coming out and it's pretty awesome. It's getting there. So what I would say is, we know certain things

Starting point is 01:02:15 influence the gut microbiome certain ways. What we don't have a great understanding of yet is, OK, it changed gut flora. Is that a bad thing? Is it a good thing? Is it net neutral? That's some of the things that have more to be elucidated. And I think we'll probably get those answers

Starting point is 01:02:30 to the next five to 10 years. Actually, one of the people I did my PhD in the same lab, she was there when I was a Suzanne de Fcoda. She actually works on the microbiome now. And yeah, she like studied published in Nature and she's a professor at UC Berkeley, I think she's badass. So yeah, I think that that's,

Starting point is 01:02:49 she was actually one of the first to show that's been the change that we got microbiome. Yeah, so I know one of the things you talk about with flexible dieting is how, from a psychological standpoint, it can be easier for people because obviously, if you're following a meal plan where it's the same fucking rotation every single day, that can not only be monotonous,

Starting point is 01:03:11 but it can, I mean, psychologically speaking, it can be much more difficult for someone versus having a target and being able to rotate food so long as they hit the target. So that's that psychological piece that you talk about a lot and you say that's real important well I say let's just Let's keep in mind like what we're talking with like for most people They could get 80 90% of the health benefits if they just found a way to eat fucking less You know what I mean like like am I gonna sit here and say like you should eat pop tarts and skittles and shit? No, no, no, no For most people telling them to eat more vegetables, more fruits and vegetables, less starches,

Starting point is 01:03:50 you know, limiting, uh, set, well, not such right and fat and take, but, you know, limiting some fat, like that's fine advice. The problem is, is then when you take that too far and this is what fucking everybody in nutrition does, right? Cause you look like the concept of paleo, it's fine. Eat more fruits and vegetables. Um, eat less, uh, coma hydrates, eat more whole foods, eat more meat. That's fine. If you did that, you probably end up being a healthier person. It's when you take it to the point of, oh, well, paleo didn't eat beans and they, they don't eat dairy and all that kind of shit, you know, and it's like, okay.

Starting point is 01:04:24 Yeah, it's dogma, exactly. That's why we attack them all. Right, we have no one favorite. We talk shit about all of them for that exact reason. And it's the dogma aspect of it. I mean, here's the thing, like you talk about the psychological aspect of the benefits of maybe IIF lamb versus a, you know, eat the same thing every day type of thing,

Starting point is 01:04:42 which was so prevalent in bodybuilding in particular. Yeah. How do you feel about, and I know this is a, you know, eat the same thing every day type of thing, which was so prevalent in bodybuilding in particular. How do you feel about, and I know this is a loose term, but I think you know what I'm talking about when I refer to food this way, how do you feel about highly processed food than in the diet, from a psychological standpoint? Because they are engineered to be highly palatable in ways that you don't have.

Starting point is 01:05:01 Oh yeah, I'm not saying that. It's not highly palatable and make you want to eat more of it. Now, I stop short of saying addictive because I think that that's a too strong of a turn. Sure. But, yeah, I mean, shit, people like, oh, sugar's addictive because it activates this, well, then you could say anything that you like is addictive.

Starting point is 01:05:18 You know what I mean? But you can, I think you can say that. I know, I mean, I had a friend that was, yeah. Maybe, so I think it's more about the personality of the person that poses them to being addicted, right? So for some people, for some people, I said like, Holly's a great example. She does not do moderation.

Starting point is 01:05:34 I literally have a lock box in my house with the treats in it. Well, I can go once a day and get myself some Reese Cup or whatever I want, you know. She can't moderate, you can be receiving it. Like, we're actually gonna do a funny video about this, but yeah, like I have to keep the lock box locked because she doesn't have that when that, when that,

Starting point is 01:05:52 I can't either. If it's in my house, I'll eat it for sure. And I attribute that though to the way I ate as a kid for, so I mean, we could have cereal in the middle of the day, we could have candy bars, ice cream for dinner for fucking 20 years, man. So for some people, I'm a pragmatist before all things. So for some people, if you know yourself

Starting point is 01:06:15 and you can't do that, and find, I encourage people to try and deal with the issues that would cause them to maybe not be able to moderate that so that maybe they can, you know, be able to, it's really hard to just cut food out of your life for the most part because you're going to be exposed to it at some point. And so at that point, you kind of got to, okay, be able to deal with it in a certain way. But if you know this about yourself, then, okay, you know, well, I mean, here's, so, you know, a great book that I read a wire to eat

Starting point is 01:06:45 I don't know sure if you're familiar with Rob wolf very interesting individual But he makes some very good points in the book and he talks about and bear with me now he talks about Here comes the ease of access to pornography and he talks about it because he's using it as an analogy for what's happened with food And he says you know we have pornography on the internet now. It's extremely accessible. Wait, there's porn on the internet? Yep, that's what I thought that's what they invented. Hang on, I'll be back in two hours. Yeah. Two minutes.

Starting point is 01:07:11 So, hey now. Hey. This is, but it's extremely accessible and the, you know, obviously the male brain in particular is stimulated by novelty. And so you've got these kids looking at picture after picture after picture and, you know, when we were kids pornography was hard to come by I mean you had a magazine you could probably for that shit. Yeah, exactly It was still from that right but what's happened now is that the when you look at erectile dysfunction among men the the age group

Starting point is 01:07:36 Where that you're seeing the fastest rise which is scary and exceptional isn't men who are in their 20s Which didn't even exist before And it's because they've literally wired their brain, desensitize, doesn't process or highly processed food kind of do that a little bit. I mean, I know I can speak anecdotally and say I have completely experienced that. How do you feel about that with that? Because we are eating engineered foods that,

Starting point is 01:08:00 just you don't get that kind of flavor. I mean, look, if you stop drinking monster drinks today, I bet you, if you stop drinking them for two months and then you taste it again It would taste so much sweeter than it does. No, that's true. That is a hundred percent true No, I don't know for so much a brain thing, but the the palette is very adaptable For example if you take people who like Indian people who eat a lot of spice and you have to meet American food They can't even taste it bland because it's there's juice to so much spice and you have to meet American food, they can't even taste it. Blan, because there's juice to so much spice and flavor. If you take somebody who's like a really high salt diet

Starting point is 01:08:31 and you have to meet a low salt diet, they can't taste it. You know, so same thing, if somebody's used to eating a lot of sugary stuff, they have a hard time tasting stuff that's left. So yes, absolutely, like you can change the palate. The good thing is you can change it back too, you know? But yeah, it's really interesting about all that stuff. I try not to be too dogmatic on any one thing. I guess where I try to make the distinction is, you know, again, my problem is when people are taking it too far, you know, people saying, well, insulin is the cause of obesity,

Starting point is 01:09:04 and all this guy. I'm like, well, if that was true, you know, insulin insulin is the cause of obesity and all this guy I'm like well if that was true Then we would have these studies where calories are controlled and people eat more carbs or more sugar And they lose less weight and that's not what happens now. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to eat a lot of sugar when you diet You'd be very hungry. You wouldn't be that satisfied right, but can you have some sugar and still lose fat? Yes, unequivocally, right? But is it a good idea to eat more vegetables and things that are filling?

Starting point is 01:09:31 Absolutely, right? The problem is, and I had this the other day, people are, if you ever, I told the someone, I said, you're gonna wanna find out how dumb the average person is trying to sell something, and then look at the questions you get. Just like God bless customer support for different companies because I can't even imagine what some of these companies get.

Starting point is 01:09:50 But I have said repeatedly that I think a ketogenic diet has several applications. I don't think it's superior for fat loss because the research is pretty damn clear on that that if you equate calories and protein, it's not superior for fat loss. Now, if you like to eat that kind of diet, if you prefer that and you can be sustained with that, then by God, that's fine. I'll tell you what my problem is. I think you can finish the munch. But what somebody said to me on Twitter is like, that's not true. I lost 50 pounds on the ketogenic diet.

Starting point is 01:10:23 I said, please tell me where I said it didn't work. What I said was it wasn't superior. If you like it, then by all means do it, right? So that's the same thing. Like everybody, people, what you, what I say and what people hear is two different things. Well, here's, here's where I think your message sometime gets misconstrued. When I yell, when I yell, people call them stupid. Maybe. Maybe. No, no. We can talk about that too, but that's not where I was going.

Starting point is 01:10:51 You talk about how, you know, they were testing the ketogenic diet versus other diets. Calories were controlled. Protein was controlled. No difference in weight loss, which is, yes, it's true. But I think what things get misconstrued is either you're not acknowledging outwardly because I know you would not, if I bring it up now, you'll acknowledge it, but you're not acknowledging the subjective.

Starting point is 01:11:12 So you're a victim. So it's a victim, doesn't it? Well, it could be. You're not addressing the subjective, satiating effects that a lot of people get when they eat a lot of fat and they don't eat a lot of carbs. And so people say,

Starting point is 01:11:24 keto works better for a lot of people, not because it makes your body burn more body fat, but because I don't want to eat as much. That's a major factor in a diet is how hard it is for you to go. Especially when we really dive into all this shit, that all the stuff, that all these semantics that we argue over is not even the big factor,

Starting point is 01:11:42 the biggest factor is the psychological piece. 80% of people, no matter how fucking smart you are, no matter what great diet you put them on, is still failing. We, everybody gains the weight right back. 95%. All right, yeah, I said that's a, that's a low-bought 80 to 95%.

Starting point is 01:11:56 And why is that? And it's because there's a psychological issue. Now, we're completely ignoring. Yeah, that nobody talks about. Nobody talks about that. We all argue, we all get in camps. Paleo, keto, IIFYM and we want to argue over who's is better and get into the science of it When a none of that fucking matters because what really if none of these people make the choice to follow anything for longer than six weeks

Starting point is 01:12:16 Then it's none of it's gonna really help anybody so it's I always find it Comical that we all get into you know the smart guys get all these debates over who's smarter, who's more right with the science, when no one's addressing the real elephant in the room, which is these people aren't getting diving into why, they're why they want all this shit, the psychological piece. So none of that stuff matters. Yeah, it's not just a huge factor,

Starting point is 01:12:40 I think it's the factor, cause here's a deal. Here's where I think we make mistakes with nutrition is that we believe that we can command people to do something and then that's gonna work. Like we have the answer, like okay, here's what you gotta do. You let's calories follow this macro or follow this diet and you'll lose weight. We can't even fucking command ourselves.

Starting point is 01:13:03 We can't even tyranny ourselves. How many times have you told yourself, I'm gonna do that and then you don't. And you're gonna tell the people to do shit. Just doesn't work that way. So, I mean, how do you feel about that piece of it, that psychological piece,

Starting point is 01:13:17 like, and how big of a role that play? I know you coach a lot of people, although I would say that there's probably some self-selection bias with the people you coach, because I'm sure a lot of them are pretty fucking serious. You're probably not getting the average person, right? Yeah, you're gonna track somebody like me to you, because I wanna know more of the deeper science.

Starting point is 01:13:34 You know, you're not just, but coaching, it's not just, you're not, just telling yourself, like somebody's not gonna hire somebody they don't like, you know what I mean? For the most part, well, they're gonna fire them pretty quick. Well, there's a lot of stuff to unpackage there, but what I'll say is in terms of satiety, fat is more satiating per gram. When I per calorie-based, it's pretty close, depending on the carbohydrate source as well. But it also is very individual. Some people do better calorie control wise

Starting point is 01:14:06 on a low fat diet. Some people do better calorie control on a high fat diet. Would not disagree with you absolutely. And some people say, you know what? I don't crave fat that much. If you give me enough carbohydrate, I'm happy camper. And vice versa, right?

Starting point is 01:14:18 And it wouldn't matter, because you can make fat from carbon, you can make, well, I can't really make carbon from fat, other than like glycerol backbone, but more so fat spares carbohydrate, but that's another conversation. Um, one that nobody gives a shit about. Yeah. I like to talk about it.

Starting point is 01:14:35 I care. Go back to talk about it. No, I just, I just mean this is again, like, I make a porn reference, you know, but they make that connection, you, but they make that connection. Yeah, you know, they make that connection. Go in missionary, but I spared that for, you know, doggy style. So,

Starting point is 01:14:49 there's that this roll backbone. That's a real slider right in. So, so I got key tones for you. Yeah. Um, what I would say is that that's part of it, right?

Starting point is 01:15:04 Is we don't know what the difference is in part of it's probably psychological is what people prefer I think also psychological is the emphasis on Just the dieting just the weight loss Nobody give talks about weight maintenance after they've lost the weight that is never discussed Very few people actually discuss that And that is actually the major problem. Nine out of, or sorry, six out of every seven overweight obese people lose a significant amount of body weight in their life. The problem is that they can't keep it off. Yeah, we don't have a weight loss program. Yeah, problem. And then again, it's, you know, and they all followed something

Starting point is 01:15:43 to get there. So there was something that was successful for them, but really was it successful if they didn't keep the weight off. And that's what I tell people. I'm like, don't show me your, don't show me your after picture. Show me your after picture six months later, or 12 months later, right? You're after after. We get all these people like the, the dark to earth star weight loss clinic here, which is people like, oh wow, it's a magical fat burning diet.

Starting point is 01:16:03 He puts people on intercalories a day. Of course you fucking lost fat. Like, they, let me see it a year from now after you've rebounded, you know? Those are the ones they don't put up. How do you feel about some of the sciences coming out with fasting? How do you feel about, how do you practice fasting? Have you tried it? I have not. Holy shit. You know who should totally do fasting? You. You. Jesus Christ.

Starting point is 01:16:26 Fasting and meditation may change your life, bro. You have no idea. Just for the experience. Well, there's a massive psychological piece from fasting that if you try it, you'll know. And I'm not talking about 12 or 15 hours. I'm talking about 48, 72 hours. And you're not talking about some woo-woo psychological thing. You're talking about this real connection that we've made as humans to food. The food.

Starting point is 01:16:45 That we didn't have just a few hundred years ago. What's along this you've ever gone with that monster? A long time ago without food. No, 16 hours ago. So you've never really felt, I mean, you've never felt real, real hungry. You felt cravings. That's an interesting.

Starting point is 01:16:59 Well, there is a, most people have it. There is, once you go through a certain amount of fasting, there's like, you can get actually like a euphoric feeling, anorexics get this. It's like a euphoric feeling associated with it. Well, look, but- A lot of, here's my thing, it's like, I'm interested in-

Starting point is 01:17:19 Yeah, but don't compare fasting to anorexics because one is a dysfunction, and the other one is totally, it would be like me saying, hey, I'm eating to gain muscle and you're like oh you're just like that you know it's like eating when people are 500 pounds overweight or whatever it's and I want to be clear with that because we talk about fasting on the podcast and we're very clear to say fasting is not a weight loss tool in fact if you use it for weight loss you're getting you potentially can't set yourself up

Starting point is 01:17:42 for those type of behaviors which are not good for all intents and purposes. Yeah, well, and that's the big problem, is apologize. No problem. Holly, as I told you, she's had a license issue and I'm trying to, she stuck somewhere I'm trying to get her an uber

Starting point is 01:18:10 Basically lanes like I need to be more present. I shouldn't be more distracted. Yeah. I'm in the middle of a live podcast I'm gonna text mother fucker doesn't listen no all joking aside. I know I'm glad you we had a chance to take care of You know you had to take care of some stuff, but we were talking about fasting And I asked you what's along this if you've ever fasted before you said no like what are your thoughts on fasting some of the Sciences coming out well I guess well what I hear a lot of announce on a Fiji everybody's all about yeah I taught you on a Fiji no I'm not talking about you guys but most of you people talk about this stuff like you actually know what on a Fiji is because you keep using this word I don't think it means what you think it means So autofagy is just the the process of basically like Scyler degradation like breaking down shit that needs to be broken down. Didn't read a waste if you will lysosomes You know proteosome detox

Starting point is 01:18:59 Perfect scientific word insert petrics It's Paul that is it's a good point to tell people though That's what what they do that's how people sell Paul. That is a good point to tell people though, that's what they do. That's how people sell products. That is what they attach it to something like that. So if you look at, because I look to the sample, people start saying that's like,

Starting point is 01:19:13 all right, well, let's see if this is something that's, you know, and killer restriction actually induces all the phageas as well. Sure. Yeah, I'd like to see a comparison. Dr. Walter Lungo's already doing that. Are you familiar with him? I know the name.

Starting point is 01:19:26 So he's one of the premier researchers on, or the leading researchers on fasting. And so he did a study, fucking remarkable study. I'd like to see it. And actually, the FDA, I believe, is now investigating. He took individuals who had terminal cancer, had them fast for 72 hours, then do their chemotherapy. And he compared them to... This is crazy. And man, the far more effective on the cancer and far less side effects and it's seem to have

Starting point is 01:19:51 protective effects on the healthy cells. And the problem with that is telling people not to eat for three days, especially in the context of modern life is very difficult. So what he's doing now is he's putting people on what's called a fasting mimicking diet where they eat very low calories Mostly fats so no proteins no carbohydrates and

Starting point is 01:20:10 They do this over the course of five to seven days and he sings very similar for all for all He knows it so far it seems like it's doing the same thing. Yeah, that's not the first time I've heard that that Dr. Dom Digostino. He studies us with keto, with keto jack. Yeah, he's a good friend of mine. And here are that keto zealots. I'm one of my good friends, is one of the main keto researchers.

Starting point is 01:20:34 So who's stronger? You were hit off of my fucking ass. So here's the question, who's smarter you were dumb and who's stronger you were dumb? Wow, because he's a strong, well, a lot of people. And he's a smart guy, too. He's a smart guy, he's a smart guy. He's very handsome, too. Very handsome because he's a strong, but a lot of people are just like, I hate this smart guy too. He's a smart guy. He's very handsome too.

Starting point is 01:20:45 Very handsome. Yeah, like I'm inferior in every single way. Wow. All the really? He says, so you pull more weight than he does. You do. He pulls a lot. Yeah, he pulls a lot.

Starting point is 01:20:57 I've seen him pull 700 pounds of like fasting for 36 hours. Well, I know he did that. I know he did 500 in a cell, which is impressive as fuck after that. He used to like barbell row 405. Well, I know he did that. I do he did 500 and so they which is impressive as fuck after that But he's still like barbell row 405 like Strong fucking. Yeah, it's a fucking moose. Yeah, so yeah, so let's talk about fasting for say like what do you think about that? Would you ever? Considering incorporating that in

Starting point is 01:21:17 Encaching for people maybe to help them with already have people who do it. Oh really? Okay. Yeah. I I I just I okay Here's the upside. here's the downsides. What are those? Well, I mean, if you look at, you know, my background was in protein metabolism. So I always kind of start there. But I try not to be too much for hammer trying to see nails.

Starting point is 01:21:39 Part of the, one of the downsides is you can't, you can't make up for low protein at one time of the day by overeating another time of the day. We don't have any viable protein storage mechanism other than depositing in tissue. There's a max cap to that. There's what's called the muscle full effect. You can only per unit time put so much in. Okay. Right? So, and you have this minimum threshold stimulation and max threshold for amino acids and protein.

Starting point is 01:22:11 So, it's more antibiotic to be able to get multiple protein rich, high quality protein meals per day. Now, there's a cap to that. You know, once you start getting about four or five meals, it seems like it's, you're just trying to throw more stuff and sure that's already full. And there does seem to be something to be said for eating a meal and kind of letting the for lack of better term system reset. If you eat too frequently, it's not optimal for an almost as if it becomes desensitized in a way. Yeah, we call it the muscle full effect, but yeah, the

Starting point is 01:22:47 I don't know if I want to call it desensitized. a way? Yeah, we call it the muscle full effect, but yeah, I don't know if I wanna call it desensitized, because that would infer some other response. But from a pragmatic perspective, yes. So, but also then if you're fasting for 16, 20 hours or whatever, that's not anabolic. And you don't seem, at least from from our research it's not like you get a rebound during that guy's anabolic fasting guy oh god damn it I was just gonna open that up this weekend yeah a funny thing you know Gandhi wasn't jacked you know like but like people said well look at this look at this guy he's

Starting point is 01:23:23 he's big and lean and he does fasting. Well, I'm not saying you can't build muscle doing intermittent fasting. You certainly can. Is it the best thing you can do for optimizing your muscle mass? No. Probably not. But if your goal is not optimizing your muscle mass and strength and your body composition, and it's, you know, there's some moment, or if it helps you, you know,

Starting point is 01:23:46 control calories, there is some evidence that some people do better with time restricted eating compared to just counting calories or overall restriction. There's some people who do better. And so that's where I use it. If people say, hey, listen, I know that this is the downside of this, but I just do better this way. I feel better this way.

Starting point is 01:24:01 I work out better this way. It's better for my lifestyle. I'm telling hell, I'm fine, right? We got to keep in my life. What's the most important thing? Consistency. Like just get somebody to be consistent and make it a lifestyle. So if that's how they're able to make it a lifestyle, who am I to say? No, you have to do it exactly this way. I can say, I try to be pragmatic above all else. You think you you ever consider trying a prolonged fast in the future? No.

Starting point is 01:24:28 Oh, listen, if I found that I had cancer, the first thing I'd do is fast for three days and go on a ketogenic diet. If I found I had cancer, that's the first thing I would do. Now why wouldn't you try other than that? Right. Or why wouldn't you be proactive about that? If you,

Starting point is 01:24:44 because okay, let me put it this way. Why would you just start taking chemotherapy now? Oh, that's a big, that's a big, I know, I know, but what I'm, my point I'm trying to make is what prevents disease isn't necessarily the same thing as what's needed to treat disease. Well, forget about preventing disease.

Starting point is 01:24:58 Why don't you, forget about preventing disease. Hey, let me, let me finish this out. Okay. So, once you've, you know, your body is a pretty pretty elegant system once you've gotten to the point where you've actually Insulted that system so much to where you're really sick that actually takes a lot because there are a lot of safeguards Like when you take biochemistry one of the things you come to understand is is amazing shit doesn't go wrong more often Sure, right? We actually have extremely out. We have like redundant

Starting point is 01:25:24 We're very redundant, and remoror redundancy upon the redundancy to make sure that stuff doesn't happen. It's also why they're using no magic solutions. Like people were like, they found out that Full of Staten was a milestone in the neighborhood. They're like, oh man, we finally found it and they gave it into Jackson, you know, because it turns out that when you turn milestone off, other things end up turning off, right to balance it out right exactly My ostatin is more regulatory and in development when your stools are cells are still dividing but that's I'm getting off track so

Starting point is 01:25:57 So what I would say I think that more of what is most important for preventing cancer and I don't want to I'm not a cancer expert, so I'll qualify that, definitely not a cancer expert. Is overall healthy lifestyle, making sure you're exercising, controlling your calorie intake, and having healthy lifestyle habits, right? But once you've insulted that system to the point where you have massive dysregulation, now it's going to require a much bigger punch back, so to speak. So you're going to require, you have a massive insult, you're going to require a massive response.

Starting point is 01:26:30 Sure, sure. So, that being said, and I don't know a ton about this, there are, you know, the thought process behind lowering your glucose availability, and actually for what I've seen, it seems even more about raising the ketonesones and it is about lowering glucose. Is most cancers have some, or was it most, a lot of cancers have dysfunctional mitochondria. So they're glucose-obligate users. They can only lose glucose for fuel. So obviously by providing another fuel source, you're kind of effectively starving the

Starting point is 01:27:04 cancer. What did that call the Warburg effect? Warburg hypothesis. That's right. So there are some though that can operate off ketones and may do better off ketones. So it probably depends on the specific type of cancer that you have. Cancer's pretty smart.

Starting point is 01:27:18 Cancer, so I did some undergraduate. I mean, you can cut off their blood supply and they'll create the role. Yeah, yeah. So it's like a hydra. It's like a hydra. You cut off one head and two more grow. I had a family member who had terminal cancer

Starting point is 01:27:33 and wasn't able to make it. I know way too much or way more about cancer than I think I should. And it's very fascinating in the sense that they're very different. What works for one actually feeds another one Yeah, and they're just like the human body because it is your body. They're pretty fucking smart So it's but for you know, it's like it has a brain

Starting point is 01:27:54 You know, yeah, so without sounding too woo woo. I mean, I mean, yeah, I don't want to sound too you guys know me I'm not a woo guy, but yeah I mean you know the way it acts it's almost like it's out there. Yeah so it's you know people say oh looking for a cure for cancer there isn't going to be a cure for cancer because cancer is like thousands of different diseases they all have one thing in common uncontrolled growth, but one cancer isn't the same as another one. You know, the treatment, like my mom has multiple myeloma, that's going to be different than the treatment for somebody who has lung cancer. Absolutely.

Starting point is 01:28:33 Yeah, so now we forget all that, okay? I'm not saying you should fast for, but I think it's fantastic. Exactly. No, why not try it for some of the, because here's a deal. Okay, and you're a science guy. So he's working hard, but it's just like he was trying to get hard and he's smoking weed. That almost happened though. Yeah, we did.

Starting point is 01:28:56 So we had to settle for cocaine. So anyway, the, being a science guy, you look at things objectively, you see studies, but there's also stuff that's happened across culturally for thousands of years and is present in the major religions of the world. Many times those things are there because they've stood the test of time and one of those things is fasting for the spiritual benefit, but I'll say for the emotional psychological benefit. And being someone who's so type A, I have one gear and that has caused both my success and also probably contribute to a lot of the shit that's happened to me. I think fast, you would benefit so much from fasting from that sense, like fast and meditate.

Starting point is 01:29:40 Like does that scare you? It wouldn't scare me. I think I think a 24 hour fast plus, I think, would blow your mind. I think just because how aware of your body, how you feel, and the science guy that you are, it will, in the very least, it would cause curiosity in someone like you, I feel. Enough to where you go like, hmm, that's pretty wild. That's interesting.

Starting point is 01:30:04 That I feel this way. Oh, I'll never say never I mean maybe maybe I will one day I don't know Do you feel like if you fast your acquiescing to the No, I don't get fuck with anybody things. Yeah, oh, yeah, that's good unless they're saying you can't do something Yeah, they want to make it like Lane you couldn't fast for 24 hours fuck you. I'll show you that right exactly Well, that's what I fast for 48 That's what I'm thinking. I feel like you can't have you notice I know you're not a 72

Starting point is 01:30:31 No way. I know you've got a ton of a ton of people that you've you've dealt with battle with and so like that Is there do you notice there's certain things that really bother you that someone says versus other things that people say You're like whatever you don't say that get on to that When people really speak outside their turn, like speak outside their area of expertise, authoritatively, that really pisses me off, you know? Or they do, or they, they, Why is that, thank you so angry?

Starting point is 01:31:00 If I had to guess being the psycho guy who likes all that so that, I would think I had a mom who was very authoritative with me and that's me rebelling against that as an adult with my adult relationships. No. Now, more so that I know what went into actually like doing in advance to, I'm not saying so I said I was going to advance to agree to be smart.

Starting point is 01:31:23 I'm not saying that. in advance to, I'm not saying so I said I was going to be advanced to grade to be smart. I'm not saying that. But you know, when you're, when you're not going to be great at five different things, right? You're great at one thing. Maybe you're really good at a couple of things. Do you know what I'm saying? Unless you're leaner or da Vinci. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:38 Yeah. So we're both the time, by the way. We always want to throw that in there. There's a lot of common lalybium. That's all I'm saying. So, you know, somebody is a heart surgeon. They might have had one semester of a light nutrition course. That's true, huh?

Starting point is 01:31:57 They have no bit, no more than I have any business talking about, you know, like when you just talked about cancer, I just qualified that by saying, I'm not an expert. I think I've read some things. I didn't say, do this, this way it should be done. I think they're qualified to say something. I think they're not, I don't think they're in a position though to lean on their education as their, well, everybody has a right to an opinion. Right, right. You also have to be told that your opinion is full of shit. Of course. Very, very true. You don't have a right to an opinion right right you have it and you also have to write to be told that your opinions full of shit of course very very true You don't have a right to not have your feelings sir. I mean that's that's it. Yeah, I mean listen you can you can say that you know sugar is toxic

Starting point is 01:32:35 I'm not talking about you so sure just whoever Tumbles to lower whatever it's not toxic The guy what are the guy So just and I am and I am the right to say, that's actually bullshit. And you don't know what you're talking about. So artificial sweetness. Yeah. So it's you know, the done in crew grew effect. Unfortunately, like, you know, when you first started something, you know that you know nothing.

Starting point is 01:33:02 But then when you learn a little bit, you actually think you know way more than you actually know, right? Then you know more and then you realize you start to know more and more. You realize, oh, actually, I don't know why you're much. And then it starts to come back up right near the end, right? Yeah. So yeah, like I don't even feel real comfortable. Like if somebody asked me a, you know, a vitamin K question, I'd be like, yeah, it's important for blood clotting.

Starting point is 01:33:24 That's about it. I don't feel qualified to really talk about much else. You know, I've always I've always appreciated which I mean, that's a that's how I found you. A really way back when was you were the first guy online that I thought was calling out all the bullshit that was going on in the bodybuilding world with all the the bro science. And I, you know, I was a guy that I know for sure I didn't know more than a lot of these scientists but I knew more than what these bros were talking share

Starting point is 01:33:50 with you and I was seeking out okay there's got to be somebody who knows more than I do in this field someone there wasn't a lot and you were one of the first few and so I know you made a big name by being that guy who kind of called it right out. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that I could, there were times when, I'll tell you the evolution of that mindset. I actually, I kind of wanted to call people out, but at the same time, I didn't want to be known as the guy who called people out.

Starting point is 01:34:18 Yeah. Because I don't want that to what I'd be known for. And my approach was at first, I'm like, all right, I'm a libertarian, so I'm like, all right, the market will sort this out, right? If they're full of shit, the market will sort this out and you figure out that they kind of game the system, you know what I mean? Especially with these coaches who have like who are also promoters and embedded with organizations and all this kind of stuff like you realize that there's there's it's not going to happen that way unless you say something Right, so that was about two thousand like twelve thousand thirteen when I really started I

Starting point is 01:34:51 Don't think there's very many people I call out by name, you know what I mean? You're just calling out the bullshit. I was calling out I was trying to target the practices rather than the people right you weren't saying this person You were saying now listen to somebody directly into something like come up there And I see something I might just say something on their post you know but um I think Charles Pollock when it's threatened to beat me up with a baseball bat more than once wow you do this another polarize you are you're you know here's a deal like you're you're definitely polarizing I know in our forum so we have a private forum and oh I'm sure that's fun to read well no I'll tell you

Starting point is 01:35:23 you what there's people that love you on there sure And then there's people I can't stand and arguments amongst the most He's a salad or he's dogmatic and other people I know he's great He's this and that and the other and here's what I always say I'm passionate. I'm not dog man Let me guys would agree well, let me explain This is I come to your defense on people who tended not like you and this is what I always, like whether you agree with the guy or not, cause I definitely don't agree with you on everything, or at least I think when we start talking, we end up finding out.

Starting point is 01:35:52 I think we end up discovering that really, you know, that we agree more than we disagree, but here's the bottom line, like I always appreciate and respect anybody who is gonna talk straight, and I can ask you a question and you're gonna talk straight to me and we're gonna have a conversation

Starting point is 01:36:08 and I fucking appreciate that and I don't care if we disagree on everything. So at the end of the day, doesn't matter where that like you and not and I will say this off the record, I could probably hang out with you. I think you're a cool guy. I don't see any problem with you, but I respect you.

Starting point is 01:36:22 And I think that that's more important. And that's because, again, you come on the show, we talked to you, can ask you questions, you're gonna fucking talk about it. You talked, you know, you went on your own social media to talk about your person. Like, let me tell you something, you know, you put yourself out there to be ridiculed.

Starting point is 01:36:40 You gotta have a big set in order to do that, and I respect that. So that's what I respect most about you and I appreciate you Coming on the show letting us talk to you answer to ask these questions You know we don't agree on everything, but you still agree to do so so I appreciate that. Well, thank you I had somebody say something the other day they're like man What do they say they were like I just? I had said something,

Starting point is 01:37:06 like I cursed or something like that in the post and somebody was like, couldn't you try to be more professional? I said, listen man, if you want vanilla and politically correct, you came to the wrong spot. Okay, like do you want me to be like everybody else who's like, you know, who's just like, oh well, don't want to offend anybody because they might buy something one day.

Starting point is 01:37:22 You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna tell you how I really feel or I'm gonna just tell you I'm not gonna answer that you know like that's That's how I'm gonna do it and You know I can say there's a there's a you know Adam consider and psychoanalyze me for another three hours and Talk about all the stuff that I'm fucked up with but I'll tell you I'm many things. I have many drawbacks, but there's one thing. I'm not that's fake. I'm fucked up with. But I'll tell you, many things, I have many drawbacks, but there's one thing I'm not, and that's fake. I'm not fake.

Starting point is 01:37:49 What you see is what you get, and I'll tell you how I really feel. Which is probably why we all connect. And that's something that we value integrity. We value that. No way in a million years we'll be inviting you back on the show if we thought you were a charlatan or a bullshitter or you lacked.

Starting point is 01:38:04 Thank you. Yeah, there's no way in hell. Um, uh, we, there's been guests that we've had on the show. I'm not gonna name names, but they were nice in this. Yeah, they left and we're like, you know what? That was fucking ridiculous. I'm not going to talk to, I, it's very difficult to have a good conversation with fake people.

Starting point is 01:38:18 I definitely do not think you're fake, which I think is part of the reason why you're so polarizing. I think the other part of the reason why you're so polarizing. I think the other part of the reason, and maybe you can agree or disagree with me, is because you are ready to fight all the time. Like, you have your fucking hands up, ready to throw down all the time. Always up for good mental scrap. Yes, absolutely. And I think, maybe you jump the gun sometimes a little bit, or maybe, maybe you, when it's time for you to hit, it's like, you don't, they slap you

Starting point is 01:38:48 and you reply with a tank. You know what I mean? Like way more than I need to. Oh, 100%. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm used to getting it a lot. It's always been that way, because I think when you're outspoken and you're passionate and you tell people how you really feel, some people are going to do well with that.

Starting point is 01:39:07 And you know, some people just ain't going to dig you. And you know, one thing mom told me and I agree with this. She was like, honey, you're never going to make everybody happy. You're like, some people are going to hate you just for breathing, just for being who you are. So you might as well just be who you are. And that was some great advice. So, you know, if there's some people out there who don't like me or whatever, sure,

Starting point is 01:39:32 what I like, what I like, everybody like me, of course. But you know what, like there's certain people like, you know, oh, fuck it, we're all, we're all peeing. I'm sure they'll make a video, but whatever. Like vegan games, this guy, you know, like he told Furious PD, hope he died from his cancer, you know, that guy's a fucking, again, some people make mistakes, right? So I get that right.

Starting point is 01:39:53 Some people say, I'm a piece of shit. But when you're repeatedly saying things like this and you're just repeatedly an asshole, and the only thing you contribute is criticism of other people. So it's, it's just like, yeah, fuck, where was I going with that? Well, I think people I totally got to say, I just popped in my head. I think people like him and like Blah-Hon, these people that you've had, I think they are kind of sick. I don't think they really give a shit about what even the things they're saying to. They just know that they've learned that. That's going to bother me.

Starting point is 01:40:23 Yes. Come on with that. Oh, just well, they've learned that. That's gonna bother me where I was coming with that. Oh, just, well, they've learned that that's how to get you riled up. And I don't think they really care about even making a point. I really think that that's all they're seeking that. They're wrong. They're both, they're both fucking nuts. Of course, but they know how to get your attention. But, and yeah, and to be fair, like, they probably won in some ways, because I responded like you know I

Starting point is 01:40:45 figured out a little bit too late you know but probably the best thing I could have done in in in blah's case was just fucking not responding realize that guy's in it yet he lives in like a fucking rental shed or something and is miserable with his life. Like, Ha, you win, you wake up in the morning and you win. So just like, show out with not me, like who gives a shit with that person says.

Starting point is 01:41:14 But again, that's like, right, that's the problem, right? So that again, less than learned, right? And that was, we talked about my business stuff earlier and kind of, I could have fought some things out longer, but there's something to be said with just moving forward with your life, right?

Starting point is 01:41:35 Like, yeah, yeah, there is a time to fight, you know what I mean? But there's also a time to say, how much energy is this draining from you that you could be using to create and do positive shit. You know what I mean? And in that blah, blah case, like, you know, I go back and forth on that, you know, it's kind of like, okay, I made a point.

Starting point is 01:41:57 You can't just say whatever the hell you want and have no repercussions. But at the same time, it's like, why did I have to let it affect me? Right? I could have just fucking gone all with my life, used that time and energy and done something better with it. But I think, finally, I learned from it, you know, who gives a damn? Who's the last heavy battle that you've been in

Starting point is 01:42:21 with somebody over here right now? Who's the last one that was vegan gains? The last one or you had somebody recently? I don't know. I've ever really got it. He wants to debate me, but it's kind of like... Oh really? He's actually down to do a debate.

Starting point is 01:42:33 Yeah, that's on your open too. Oh boy, here we go. So that's kind of like... I tried to host these for you. I know, exactly. So we'll put our own thing together and do this. So there's there's two issues. One,

Starting point is 01:42:56 you're not oftentimes in debate, the person who just yells the loudest is perceived as the winner. And two, do I dignify that with a response? Like, do I even want to acknowledge? Because- That's a great point. The second one is a good point, definitely. Like, people, because he like criticized my PhD, really bro? It was so easy. Well, I tell you what, tell you what, you go do one. If my PhD's a joke and it was that fucking easy, go get one.

Starting point is 01:43:19 I have one. It's great. And guess what? I got fucking paid to do mine. So for a genius like you, it should be fucking easy. So go for it. You know what I mean? Come talk to me when you got it.

Starting point is 01:43:30 So that's, you know, it's kind of like one of those things, but at the end of the day, it's like. It's kind of like one of those things that you're still dealing with, because I mean, it even fires you up when you retell the story. Yeah, I mean, I can feel the passion in your voice with even saying it.

Starting point is 01:43:42 I get more upset at the mindset of people like that than I do at the passion in your voice with even saying I get more I get more upset at the mindset of People like that then I do it the actual person. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but stop right there and why? Why do you why do you why do you care why you care about somebody's else mindset? He's over in some garage fucking living with his mom still you're angry at you because he wants your life And that yet that makes you fucking angry that he's gonna try and mentally fuck you like who cares? More so to the point of I look at that and like you actually could do something with that you have a platform you could

Starting point is 01:44:15 actually do something. Fuck him. He can't do anything. Obviously he's not going to. All he can do is get your attention. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. So see, so maybe I should go into you for therapy. Well, it's not even that. So you're loving the one of the best things that was ever talked to me was, you know, before I respond to anybody is to think desired outcome. What is my desired outcome by responding to this person? Now, if I'm being completely honest with myself a lot of the times, it's to feed my own ego Yeah, there was that. Somebody, 100% it's that. Fuck yeah, I know it's that. Hey, now, come on. But that's an existential problem.

Starting point is 01:44:49 I'm outta here. Yeah, that's an existential problem, by the way. It's not a lame norm problem. Right on. And that's what I'm sharing. I'm like, I said here, it's not gonna have an ego. Oh, you have to. We all do.

Starting point is 01:44:58 And you know what, they can be used for good too. It's not just a bad thing. I don't believe that the ego is bad. All bad. That's what makes this human. But we tend not, I don't believe that the ego is bad. It's all bad. That's what makes this human. But we tend to, when we make, when we do things like that, we have decisions like that. It is that me trying to feed an ego or an insecurity that I'm trying to overcompensate for.

Starting point is 01:45:16 So if I'm being truthful with myself and I learn to unpack that before those moments happen or when they, because in your case, it'll probably happen again. Somebody's trying to, they know they can fuck with you. And you gotta ask yourself, like, okay, and I wanna respond, and you're like, oh, I wanna respond because this guy's got a huge platform, and he's given out terrible advice, fuck this, Zele, and that's what you wanna say, but really,

Starting point is 01:45:37 it's like what you gotta ask yourself is, why do you even care about that? Well, when are you really helping more people that way? So when it's not an attack, when it's actually just bad advice, I'm not doing it for that person's benefit. I'm doing it for the benefit of the people watching who I might change their mind, right? But in the case of like these other two that I've talked about,

Starting point is 01:45:54 honestly, probably it's because when I was boy, when I was younger, I was told not to stand up for myself. You know, and then no, no, hate to my understanding why she did this, but she was like, you can never get in a fight under any circumstance You know my dad would be like take me over to clean my life You're starting up, but you finish it if you have to you know like that sort of thing But I felt like you know literally I'd be back into a corner

Starting point is 01:46:17 With kids, you know saying terrible things doing terrible things and I felt like I had no power You know what I mean, and so it's kind of like, okay, well now you push me, I'm not some helpist, can I? I'm gonna push back. You're still fighting those bullies. But probably the best way to stand up to that is to not address it at all. And actually, that's one of the things

Starting point is 01:46:34 my therapist said was, I've had times where I'm not gonna go into detail, but somebody would be bullying me. And she would say, don't respond. That standing up for yourself is not responding because if you give them, if you get riled up, then they're showing that they're getting to you. You give your power, you give your power away.

Starting point is 01:46:54 So I had some similar experiences at it and this was really groundbreaking for me was, the bullies that you had when you were a kid represented actual people, but now it's this idea. And now you're, okay, I'm still fighting bullies that you had when you were a kid represented actual people, but now it's this idea. And now you're still fighting bullies. It's this person online. But in reality, who's bullying you now? Right.

Starting point is 01:47:14 You are. Yeah. You are now your biggest bully. You are now tyrannizing yourself in the sense that you are making decisions that you know that, oh, fuck, what am I doing? This is going to end up terribly for me, it's distressing me out. This is not worth the time and energy. But then there's a part of you that bullies you that says, no, oh fuck, what am I doing? This is gonna end up terribly for me, it's just stressing me out, this is not worth the time and energy, but then there's a part of you that bullies you

Starting point is 01:47:27 that says, no, never again like before. Keep doing this. So you're still. Well, what you learned is we're kind of slaves to our childhood a lot of times. Totally. You know what I mean? Actually, we actually,

Starting point is 01:47:38 Holly and I listened to a book called Your Brain on Love. And you, it's by a guy named, Bob, Technic, stand Technic and he's a he studies Childhood attachment so basically how children in Iraq with their parents and Holy shit like listen in this book you under like not only do you understand your partner better? You understand why dump some dumb shit triggers you. Oh, yeah You know what I mean like you ever get mad at something like why the fuck did I get mad at you?

Starting point is 01:48:04 Don't I mean or even like one where you was like it was like a knee jerk like you didn't even think about it. You just immediately triggered you, you know, hashtag triggered. And so like and he talks about how your parents interacted with you or how your family interacted with you sets you up for a lot of how your relationships or interpersonal relationships are going to be in the future and Like, you know, there's three different basic categories islands anchors waves and An island for example as somebody like they're the most horrifying thing in the world They can be as a bird feel like a burden to somebody else So they like, their auto regulation

Starting point is 01:48:45 or when their stress is, they wanna be alone, they don't wanna talk and they keep everything close to the vest. It's all about protecting themselves, right? An anchor is somebody who usually grew up in a, and typically, and he says, nobody's 100% of one, everybody's blends. But you know, an island typically had one parent

Starting point is 01:49:05 that was Barry aloof, and if ever the child wanted something, the parent would make them feel like they were a burden. So that set him, them up to feel like later in life, that feeling like a burden was the worst thing in the world, right? And then there's anchor families, anchor families were usually, like your strong families, they had mostly good interactions. They never felt like they weren't going to be able to get their affection and their love and the things they needed, they felt stable,

Starting point is 01:49:29 right? And they do well with being alone and they do well with being with other people. And then there's waves and waves are kind of the opposite of island. They're all deregulation as they like being around people. If something happens, they want to talk about it, they want to talk about it, they want to talk about it, they want to talk about it, they want to talk about it, they want to be it into the floor, right? And usually they had one parent that would, waves are a little bit more complicated to explain, but essentially like their auto regulations be like clingy. You know what I mean? And it also talks about how when you're with somebody, who the person you're with can change how you act. So for example, if you're an island, but you are with somebody who's like the island of islands, you become more like a wave, right?

Starting point is 01:50:12 Because it's like people chase what retreats or that sort of thing. So if you're used to being the one who's has to be like, oh God, stop being so clingy. And then all of a sudden, you're not getting that affection that you usually get. Now you're the one who starts being more clean-y. You know what I mean? It was extremely fascinating. I would definitely recommend it, you know, but you understand so much more about yourself and how you interact with things. But I was telling Hall of Fame, like, God, isn't amazing, like, how when you're a kid, you don't even think much about this stuff. It might bother you for a few minutes, but then later in life it affects every single thing you do.

Starting point is 01:50:47 You know what I mean? That's actually been like an eye-opening experience for me that like in terms of parenting, like not to neglect the little stuff. Oh fuck no. Try not to, you know, don't make your kids feel like a burden when they ask you for something, you know, that sort of thing.

Starting point is 01:51:02 Cause then they're gonna view that and their relationships and then move forward. You're shaping them right now, man. Yeah. It's why I think it's so scary when you see so many people having kids at such a young age. So like, I don't even know yourself. Right, I have a list.

Starting point is 01:51:15 My body pal was like, 35. Right. No one should get married till 35. He's like, you don't even know what you want, you know? Well, sometimes it's the, it's part of how you know who you are. As you got to get married young and you get divorced later or whatever and it's like now I know. And not to say that there's people who stay together and have healthy relationships. But a lot of that is a conscious effort to grow together and be on the same page.

Starting point is 01:51:38 Come on. Come on those heart conversations. If you think you're gonna marry somebody and in 10 years they're gonna be the same person you're married. You signed up for the wrong fucking thing. Yeah. That's the bottom line. You're not gonna be the 10 years, they're gonna be the same person you're married, you signed up for the wrong fucking thing. That's the bottom line. You're not gonna be the same and they're not gonna be the same and those two people either need to grow together or you're not gonna be the same people

Starting point is 01:51:52 which are gonna be together. Yeah, I think that, like all the things I learned is like, I think everybody should get counseling as a couple, just like as maintenance, like you do, like changing the oil on your car. You're the second person that's told us this on this on this trip. In fact, and I agree with that. You know, and address problems when they come up because the worst thing that can happen is like

Starting point is 01:52:10 start to get like that resentment. You know what I mean? Oh, that builds. Where you don't even address the problems anymore, you're just like just like communicating. That's just that. You know, yeah, that's when you feel like you can't talk to somebody anymore or whatever, or you feel like you know, I talk about certain, yeah, I just, like once that starts to fester, it's really hard.

Starting point is 01:52:28 But you know, people don't know what they don't know, you know. But yeah, everybody listening, like, I would definitely check out, even if you're single, check out that book, because it will make you understand like, like, um, we'll put it in the show notes. What's the call again? Uh, your brain on love. Your brain on love. The neurobiology of healthy relationships.

Starting point is 01:52:45 Excellent. And it's like, you know, he talks about two like people say, why always pick assholes? Why always pick this or always? Well, the reason you're picking is there's something familiar about that person. And usually he said, our picker is after age 25, for the most part, usually aren't broke.

Starting point is 01:53:01 It's just that we don't know how to interact with that certain person, right? Like whatever because you know love is also we have all this information but you you can have a person that fits every single thing that you say you want and it just doesn't click. You know what I mean? Like you could have every single checkmark and it just doesn't click, right? And then you could have somebody that only like there's only one thing you guys really got to come for whatever and it just doesn't click, right? And then you could have somebody, like there's only one thing you guys, when you got to come for whatever reason,

Starting point is 01:53:27 it just fucking clicks, you know what I mean? And so learning how you interact with that person based on who they are and based on who you are is like a huge thing. I love it when you get esoteric. Yeah, now I was just gonna call it out. You didn't even smoke any weed. Yeah. I got it. Imagine if you did. You didn't even smoke any weed

Starting point is 01:53:47 Imagine if you did Balls people well, hey man, I keep feeling like one of these trips because we have these gaps between sceney So he's gonna come back. He's gonna be all hippie out there. He's gonna be meditating Oh, let's pull up in the van Open the panel van the smoke roll guys. I found the answer. I dropped acid and everything changed Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, you know, I'll make one point because I don't think I talked about it earlier, but some people said, why would you put your personal stuff out there like that? And I get that criticism. The reason I did this was one, she had already put it out there.

Starting point is 01:54:34 So my kids were gonna see it and I wanted them to be able to, what I wanted to do it for me, to be honest, because I just would feel better. I felt better doing it. So it was a selfish thing in one hand. Also, I wanted the kids to be able to see, okay, dad fucked up, but dad also took responsibility for it. Dad said he was wrong. You know what I mean? And also, so people could learn from my mistakes. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I said in the video. I'm like, listen,

Starting point is 01:55:02 if you're going to like, take care of this shit now, you know, don't make the same mistakes I made. Like, you know, we can either learn from our own mistakes or less painfully, we can learn from other people's mistakes. So if that helps some people, it was worth it. So that's kind of why I put it out there, you know, because I guess it would be easier to play it closer to the vest and just because you know, people are so fickle like She had to come up people call me names and then two months later nobody cares Did it bother you that people were saying like you're doing it just right now because to cover your ass because it was going out

Starting point is 01:55:33 Did that bother you at all? That I actually put it out after all the settlement was final on everything so it wasn't me trying to Try trying to try to get a better deal. Yeah, mean? Obviously, you gotta take my word for that. But, you know, I mean more like everything that you're going through with, like, just going through the nutrition, business, and like, so I was doing it for attention. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:55:56 I can see on the internet that way. You know, everybody, like I said, everybody has a right to their opinion. I think what I would say is that the other day, you never really know what's going on in somebody's life. I think, you know what, if you like somebody for the information they give out and you like the way they interact personally,

Starting point is 01:56:10 then like that, but don't think that that person's perfect. Nobody's perfect. We've all done bad things that we regret in our lives. Of course, yeah. Do you think you attract a lot of followers that have a similar story as you? Like we're bullied and like they kind of rage the same way too. Like, oh, probably, I mean,

Starting point is 01:56:28 you tend to attract what you put out, you know what I mean? So yeah, I think probably. That's what you know when you think about that, you probably literally have a split of bullies and people that have been bullied that follow you. So you're dealing with all the fuckers that you're dealing with your whole entire life, they're falling because they want to,

Starting point is 01:56:44 they want to try and be- Now you're encouraging with all the fuckers that you're dealing with your whole entire life. They're falling because they want to, they want to try and be you. Now you're encouraging them. Yeah. So as long as they buy the e-book, we're good. But, so, but always say, you know, that's one thing. It's like, people may hate me, but when I put my information out there, they're still gonna listen. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:57:00 You may hate me, but you're still interested in what I have to say. Well, dude, no matter whether you're an asshole or not, you're a smart guy. Hey, who's that? I was an asshole. have to say. Well, dude, no matter whether you're an asshole or not You're a smart guy. Hey, who said I was an asshole? I would know I really feels Like like I said, I appreciate you letting me come on and you know for those that don't know none of this is scripted This is all just complete. We never everybody knows us. Yeah, they know You know, I know I do we're gonna talk about today, but you know, I like I said I'm It's cathartic for me to talk about it.

Starting point is 01:57:27 For sure. Like, I feel better after I talk about it. Keeping it close is what, what, poisons, but. Oh, I understand. Absolutely. We talk about that all the time that our shows have been that way for us.

Starting point is 01:57:40 Fuck, you know, when you start putting out 700 episodes, you start really analyzing all the things, not only the things you're saying, but then your own beliefs. Like, wow, I said that, do I really believe that? Why do I feel that way? Why was I so passionate about speed? Like, you start to really analyze all that stuff.

Starting point is 01:57:53 Yeah, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, everybody's got different belief systems, everybody's, all you can do is one, try to do it the best you can based on what is important to you and what you believe, right? Because at the end of the day, you just got to live with yourself. And so, hey, your belief system may be different than somebody else. It doesn't make yours right, then make theirs wrong, then make advice aversa, right? But take actions based on what is in line with your beliefs and what's important to you and your integrity, right? And do what

Starting point is 01:58:25 you love, you know, and and try to try to find a way to be positive. Like that's that's kind of my that's my my value system. I can't I can't argue with that. You know, definitely can't argue with that. So, you know, even when I was going through all this shit I went through, there was this voice in the back of my head that kept saying, keep going, keep this fly will go and keep pushing forward, keep walking with cement blocks on, you said that right? Yeah, and I just, okay, even if we're just inching along, let's just keep going because if you're going through a hard time in your life, eventually it's not going to last forever unless you die, but it's not going to last forever, eventually you're going to come out of it, but if you let yourself sink into that and you don't keep moving, you don't try to keep that moment of going,

Starting point is 01:59:09 even if it's just inching along, then you're gonna come out of it, get to a place, and now you're so far behind because you let yourself sink. Right? Does that make sense? Well, it does, and it's a dangerous place to be in. It's a dangerous place to sit there and just be You know, I mean they've done so many studies on this right where if people feel a sense of autonomy or at least a sense of Okay, I can do something about this

Starting point is 01:59:38 Way better results and when people feel like they're completely helpless and they have no choice in anything that's going on And that's that's always bullshit Yeah, you can't always control what happens to you In fact, you can't control a lot of shit that happens to you but but you can always control what you do next. That's it. Right? That's it. And so, it doesn't mean you're going to have good options even, but you've always got options. There's always enough. So, and like the way I just kept telling myself, keep forward, forward. And I'm not saying I would never get down and say, well, it was me. 100% did that. But I wouldn't let it last very long. It was just, okay, what can I do right now today? Because there's always something you can do. But the worst thing you can do is nothing. Excellent, excellent. Thanks again, brother.

Starting point is 02:00:16 Thank you for listening to MindPump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ball, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own

Starting point is 02:00:55 personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time this is MindPump. And until next time, this is Mindbomb.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 722: Layne Norton- Confessions

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.