Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 737: John Wolf- Onnit's Chief Fitness Officer

Episode Date: March 29, 2018

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin speak with John Wolf, Onnit's Chief Fitness Officer. John has a fascinating and compelling story of overcoming obstacles and finding his salvation through fitness. While John was at Mind Pump Studios he shot some instructional steel club and steel mace videos with Justin. You can find them over at Mind Pump TV (YouTube). Learn more about John at @coachjohnwolf on Instagram. The only way we deliver content is at the gym. The importance of the consumer experience and how ONNIT delivers their products/programs. (2:57) I got into fitness as a way to improve myself when I was at my lowest. John tells the story of growing up as a “street pharmacist,” losing close family members and the moment he got mind fucked. (11:25) My perspective was altered by how these good people left. How losing those close family members shook him to his core and built his walls up. (19:24) Mr. Sensistivo. John expresses the power of transparency and how he always aims to be authentic. (24:00) Foundation to my perspective. His path to unconventional training methods and the various practices he did in between. (26:06) My dream wasn’t to serve upper 20%, it was to change lives. (31:49) The top of a short list. The path to ONNIT and how he set himself apart by doing shit no one had seen before. (36:21) John explains his knowledge of the history of kettlebells and Indian clubs (45:30) The stuff that works, sticks! What products excite him currently? (58:15) I’m one of the four horsemen. He shares if there has been any pushback with ONNIT when he collaborates with people outside the company. (1:02:44) The marketing arm is the stickiness of the brand. (1:07:15) Unconventional leadership. He breaks down the 4 C’s of hiring and having the right core group to build character within a team. (1:10:50) Related Links/Products Mentioned: Burning Man Pillow Market 2018 : Global Industry Trends and Analysis Report Onnit Acquires My Mad Methods Magazine Evolution Kettlebell Groundwork DVD | Onnit Evolution of the human hand: the role of throwing and clubbing TACFIT | First In – Last Standing! Onnit Academy Certification | Onnit Academy Kettlebell History Goes Back Much Further Than Russia Bulgarian Bag Fitness Break Room Podcast - Fitness Business Podcast for Trainers Spinning Logic | Jason Havey Featured Guest/People Mentioned: John Wolf (@coachjohnwolf)  Instagram Aubrey Marcus (@aubreymarcus)  Instagram Steven Kotler (@steven_kotler)  Twitter Pavel Tsatsouline Scott Sonnon (@scott_sonnon)  Instagram Mark de Grasse (@markdegrasse)  Instagram Dr. Ed Thomas Jake Arrieta (@JArrieta34)  Twitter Jason Havey Mike Bledsoe (@mike_bledsoe)  Instagram Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS HIIT, an expertly programmed and phased High Intensity Interval Training program designed to maximize fat burn and improve conditioning. Get it at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Also check out Thrive Market! Thrive Market makes purchasing organic, non-GMO affordable. With prices up to 50% off retail, Thrive Market blows away most conventional, non-organic foods. PLUS, they offer a NO RISK way to get started which includes: 1. One FREE month’s membership 2. $20 Off your first three purchases of $49 or more (That’s $60 off total!) 3. Free shipping on orders of $49 or more You insure your car but do you insure YOU? If you don’t, and you are the primary breadwinner, you will likely leave your loved ones facing hardship and struggle if you die (harsh reality). Perhaps you think life insurance is expensive, but if you are fit and healthy, you can qualify for approved rates that are truly inexpensive and affordable. To find out if you qualify for the best rates in the industry, go get a quote at www.HealthIQ.com/mindpump Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Get Organifi, certified organic greens, protein, probiotics, etc at www.organifi.com Use the code “mindpump” for 20% off. Go to foursigmatic.com/mindpump and use the discount code “mindpump” for 15% off of your first order of health & energy boosting mushroom products. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Also includes 20% if you purchase! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Who do we have in the house lately, man? We had John Wolff. Ah, he's a great guy. I really like John Wolff. Yeah.

John's, um, he's cool. He's from the, I didn't realize he's from like kind of around here, right? He's from Selena R. Nekke of the woods. He started out, which was, yeah, I don't think any of us knew that. No, super cool guy, super smart dude. Very interesting story. Yeah. He went into his child, it's actually pretty interesting. I don't want to give away his story, but it's pretty insane.

And then what's most insane about it is he's like the coolest guy ever and when you hear a story he's got every reason to be I'm gonna go ahead and say he may be one of my favorite on it people probably yeah he's up there yeah I get a lot of my guys his cows are boy before on it and so I don't know if he counts like he's not like somebody we know special is different right right he's he's in his own special class but John may be one of my favorite people that I've met over it on it so far, man Yeah, really really good our people right? He's a good one of our people. He's the CFO

At on it the chief fitness officer. I don't know that that was a is that a thing? They why not I love these titles They have a financial or is it working? You have a fitness? I know what more more more businesses need a stat type of CFO. If you have a fitness officer. They might have the financial guy, but they get to, nobody, nobody's staying healthy. He's definitely the guy.

If you were gonna have someone do that, that would be the dude, for sure. On Instagram, you can find them at Coach John Wolfe. And also, I do wanna mention, there's only four days left for our promotion this month. That means that you only have four days to get free forum access to our Mind Pump Private Forum. In order to do that, you have to enroll in any maps bundle.

Now bundles are what we take, individual maps programs and combine them together like maps aesthetic and maps performance. We combine those together, added some modifications and made it the sexy athlete bundle. That's just one example. We also have the Super Bundle,

which is a year of exercise programming. And what we're doing, we combine them, was we discount them like 20, 30% off anyway. You also get free forum access on top of that. If you want individual programs, yeah, exactly, if you want individual programs, you can find all those also on our website mind pump media.com So just go there, check them out, pick one, go check out YouTube as well. I wanted to mention like we did a couple videos with John Wolf

And he is a master of wielding the mace bell around and the iron club. Yes, dude. He dropped some great content. Great tip Great knowledge what comes to all the unconventional lifting, right? Excellent. So without any further ado, here's Mind Pump interviewing John Wolf, Chief Fitness Officer of Onet. You guys don't sell any programs right now? It's all classes, is that how it's all structured?

Yeah, I mean, as a matter of fact, the reality is the only way we deliver that type of content is at the gym right now. And, you know, that's not scalable. You know, originally we thought, oh, you know, sometimes you see what's already done in the marketplace and you get stuck in trying to recreate what other people have done. So originally, some of the ideas that came up were affiliate gym type models or things like that.

And we realized, man, that's not us. Why would we recreate what's already out there? I came in and I wanted to create content in terms of info products with a variety of different types. But then the business was already well established in the hard goods, the physical pieces of equipment, and then the supplements. So everything was about these tangible goods.

And we started selling digital downloads of products that we sourced from other people, but the way that they were delivered was, just to be honest, subpar. So the experience of consuming those items wasn't enjoyable. And with a brand like on it, I think that the consumer experience

is a big part of the process. the way it feels to consume the items. You know, you look at the, like they just did these huge label redesigns, which, you know, since I've been there three and a half years, we've redesigned all the labels multiple times, and each time it's this huge project, you know. I was busting Aubrey's balls about that one. Did you listen to the episode where you interviewed him? Yeah, because I was talking about like some of the like hardest decisions that he's had to make.

And he brought up the labels. I'm like, what labels? Like the fuck you guys have an hard time with labels over there. What's going on? That's, I mean, it's a lot of, it's a huge project. It's all your products. It's huge. I mean, that's what you have to realize.

This too is one of the challenges is there's this perception of abundance when it comes to on it, right? And there is abundance. There's so much goodwill, you know, Aubrey's message of servitude and the balance of giving a little bit more than we take even though we're a premium brand and we're not cheap. The goal is always to give just a little bit more to our community members than what we're taking out in the bank. And that goodwill, that reciprocity, the law reciprocity kicks in everywhere we go.

But at the same time, it's all one pool of resources right now. We haven't scaled to the point where there's this division and it has a fixed set of resources. Everything gets pulled together and when it's managed that way, when big projects come up like Aubrey's book, that's a big deal for the whole company, even though it's really his personal brand.

He's the tip of the spear for the company itself. So a lot of resources go there. And unfortunately, up to this point, we've never really transcended into a real digital delivery type of business, whether it's programming or video content. So you never really had the resources to kind of fund that direction yet. Not yet, but thankfully we're about to bridge that gap right now. Oh really?

Yeah, so we saw a huge opportunity in the marketplace with the goodwill we have, with the large community, we have to do something that is a little more consumer-friendly. So, in that way, a lot of the content, so we were talking about, hey, PDF content, programs, you have to have an audience that's somewhat educated and self-motivated to utilize that form of content, right? And so what we decided to go in on in terms of our first big content project is something more consumer-friendly, follow along transformation program.

Like a disruptive version of a transformation program. So all of a beach body, you know what I mean? Got it, right? But an on it, an on it version of that. Right, right. So it has the mindset component, the nutrition supplementation biohacking. Right.

And then a more longevity focused, deliverable that can be repeated over time with less wear and tear. So that's my contribution, but it's been a all hands on deck project, which is really cool, because then we get to pull those resources for one common project instead of all the departments working independently. Like, oh shit, all hands on deck, let's all work on this one project together, and then we can get a big push.

And that forces us to kind of evolve the way we deliver digital content. Yeah. How did on it find you? Like, how did you guys meet? Did you meet Aubrey before? I mean, how did how did on it find you like how did you guys meet? Did you meet Aubrey before I mean how did that all happen? What's a burning man? Are you guys going? We haven't been talking about it. Yeah, we want to go we talk about it every year I feel like my stock is Steven Kotler. That's been twice maybe it reminds me of it's like one of those things

Where it's like I want to go but then now everybody's gone and like I don't want to go anymore It's like one of those things where it's like, I wanna go but then everybody's gone and I don't wanna go anymore. You know what I'm saying? Everybody's done it now. Everybody did it. That's not cool. I mean, I don't need to be cool.

I need a whole bunch of homies show me it was up. I wanna go in the Thunder dome. That's how I wanna go. I wanna go with a big group of people. I'm saying I don't wanna just roll out there by myself. I don't need to get high that bad. You don't say it. I can do that at home.

Right, I can do that at home. So how did you guys come together? How did that happen? You know, it's really just, I ended up being, you know, the best choice on the, was just the top of the short list, you know what I mean? So I had a gym, hey, an hour down the road in Selena, California.

Oh, shit. Yeah, yeah, you didn't fuck out of here. You're a real good guy. Hold on, hold on, hold on, no, that's, hold on a second, you look really familiar. How long ago? Oh man, so I Oh shit. Yeah, yeah, you did the fuck out of here. You're a good guy. Hold on, I'll say. No, that's... Hold on a second. You look really familiar. How long ago?

Oh man, so I opened up my gym December 2010. December 1st, 2010, and then I moved out to work it on it August, 2000. Did you grow up in Salinas? I grew up in Marina. Marina. Seasaw. Seasaw. I used to manage the 20th.

I used to manage the 21st fitness on Insulinus, but a long time ago. No shit, okay. That's where you would know me from. So I would come in late night. I used to work hotels, so I'd work from 3 to 11, and I would commute to Hartnell. So this was probably, we'll see, 98. Oh shit. That's exactly why you look familiar, dude.

Man, hey, give me some of this. I used to, that's the first, the very first club, so I was 19 years old. So it's probably 98, you look familiar dude. Man, hey, give me some of this. So, I used to, that's the first, the very first clubs, I was 19 years old, so it's probably 98, 99, that's the first club that I ever managed. And they gave me that one of course, because it's insolentist, I'm like, I tried this one here first. If you do well, we'll give you the bigger ones.

I knew it because I saw him like, this dude looks familiar. Man, I was probably like 19 years old at the time. Yeah, man, we probably bumped into each other and hung out a couple times, but that's a while, Luke's familiar. I mean, I was probably like 19 years old at the time. Same man. Yeah, man. We probably bumped into each other and hung out a couple times, but that's a while back. And yeah, so I would get in there after my 3-11 shift

and then train until, you know, almost one, go home, crash till six, and then drive up to Milpitas to go to Healed. I was electronics technology, my AAS, that was my first degree. Yeah, good deal. But all this place is, my AAS, that was my first degree. Yeah, good deal. But all this place is a, by the way, on the way here, so sidetrack, you know,

we'll talk about how I found on it and on it found me, but I would drove in and instead of exiting the Alameda, there was a shit ton of traffic on the 880, I stayed in Fremont. So I'm driving down, like, oh shit, I used to work in hotels, so I used to work in a hotel right over here, is it just got open for a while, I did night audit, and then I was driving down, oh shit, I used to work in hotels, so I used to work in a hotel right over here, is it just got open for a while, I did night audit,

and then I was driving down and said, oh hey, reroute, first street. So I'm driving down first street, turn right on heading. I'm like, oh shit, I've spent the night in this jail before. I'm mad at you. I mean, it was good memories because it gave you perspective. Yeah. They sleeping on a metal bed. Life change quite a bit.

With a full deal of blanket is a pillow. You know what I'm a pillow person, man? I want a cold pillow. Full deal of blanket never gets cold. You know what a huge market the pillow industry is? I was just talking to our marketing team and they have, obviously, they work with other companies besides the SIS.

And he was telling me that he just let go of this company and that the pillow industry is like one of the biggest it's a he told me like per month there's like three million searches for pillows man. I didn't even know that was that I didn't know it was an industry like that pillows are that fucking big of a deal. I'll tell you if I come over your house and I like your pillow better than mine. I'm going to buy I'm going to buy a whole new set of pillows. It's true though, right?

Yeah, yeah. And we, we all stayed at like a hotel and you felt like, oh my god, that pillow was a me. Where were we, we just stayed at a house where we all jumped out. Oh, yeah, we all jumped out. That makes, yeah, that makes the sleep for me for sure. And it's just not cheap. You know, a new mattress, new pillows,

that's just not cheap at all. No, no, no, no. So, so, so okay, you, you start off, you're in, you're in the bay, you're in Selena Sarra, what is your fitness journey look like to get you to where you get to buy a gym, you've got your run your own gym? Okay, yeah, this is a, you know, I think in the fitness industry,

maybe more people relate to this story than not, but maybe it's not necessarily something that people share publicly, but I got into fitness as a way to improve myself when I was in my lowest point in life, right? So I used to run the streets and I was a street pharmacist that partook quite often. No shit. Yes. So, you know, smoked a lot of weed, did a lot of ecstasy, right? And so in that time I was experimenting with every other substance as well. And all of them, they all fit together in my lifestyle pretty well. I had a good way

to manage it all. I was still working full time, making good money inside sales at this company, this telephony company, a Hello Direct off of in South Sounds, they right there. What's that first exit? I forget whatever the case is. Cod all over there. Yeah, it's right over there. Bernal, Bernal. Yeah, right off Bernal. So it's like right at the first hand on there. Oh, yeah, you did too. Yep. Okay, cool man.

Yeah, I'll see this story. I know. We're in the same place. I feel like I bought drugs off you back. Yeah. You may have. You may have. That's what I know you.

Yeah. You all look familiar. Yeah. Some of the best cousins are here. My eyes were crossed when I saw you last time, so I just got to do that again. So, but in any case, I was managing it pretty well. And then, amen, I just fell into this rut after a couple

series of deaths in the family. My grandmother died. My grandfather died the year to the day. After that, my uncle committed suicide three months later after we hung out and we talked. And he kind of told me he was going to do it. And we were like, I was like, man, you know, I can't rob you of free will, but I wanted to give you this perspective of how much you loved and needed. And it all fell apart. And after that, you know, I was just like, a, fuck the universe, fuck life, fuck, I don't go fuck about me, you know, so how old are you at this

point? And 20. So I already graduated from healed. I was going to Menlo, commuting for, I was probably 23. Okay, so you're just angry. Angry man. And so then, so you compound like a lack, you know, apathy in a lack of self-love, a lack of faith in anything and, and, and then a hard drug. So I got exposed to meth.

A full man. Next thing you know, I was in a hole, I was 135 pound. anything and then a hard drug. So I got exposed to meth. A full man. Next thing you know, I was in a hole. I was 135 pound. Whoa, meth addict a year and a half later. Wow, wow. Yeah, yeah. And so anyways, I wanted to kick it

and for a variety of different reasons. And I found fitness was like, I'm gonna do the fitness thing. And then I saw people in the gym and they were doing the same thing that they were doing 10 years ago, not getting better, they're getting getting worse and I was like well shit I don't want to walk down that path. Maybe it'll improve me for now

But I want something I can I can bet on Growing in forever. How did you go from from methodic to to I'm gonna work out and take care of myself Was there a moment where you're like I need to get myself healthy? There are a couple moments actually so One of my my my boys we were Ran streets together right and so we were really good friends from being from Little kid status, right and I mean he lived with me grew up next door grandparents knew each other and And he was the one who was trying to tough me up. I was always a too nice kid, you know what I mean? Like I had no no angry bone in my body

Yeah, he's like you you need to toughen up. So we would like literally fight just because he'd be like, ah, you're too nice and you just fucking punch me. Next you know we're banging each other's head in the metal corners of the furniture or wooden furniture and fucking punching each other and the nuts. You know what I mean? Like shit guys, you do.

This will toughen you up. Yeah. Anyway, so you know fast forward, we're in our 20s and we're both in the game and one day I go do drop off some inform and then I'm like, all right, I'm out. But I'm just the shell of who I am. You know, I'm tired and have no, when you're that fatigued, you guys know you were hard.

Sometimes you're so tired, you have no emotional, you know, bandwidth whatsoever. So I'm like, here you go, give him a money, see you later. And he just grabs me by my shoulders, looks at me and tears are streaming down his face. And he's like, where the fuck is my friend? Who the fuck are you? You know what I mean?

And I was just like, numb. I look at him, I was like, yeah. Ah, see ya. And I was like, getting my car. And it took me maybe a couple hours I go home and I'm thinking like, man, I should have really felt something, felt something, because I'm actually very empathic. I'm super emotively driven in life and I didn't feel shit.

So it made me really kind of, it was like a mind pump. It was like a mind fuck. It's another podcast. Yeah, there you go. We mind fuck you. There you go. podcast yeah there you go there you go yeah you know you know I'm gonna fuck your body right that down and so yeah man so there is that and then I happen to meet who someone who will become my future wife? Oh cool. And so I was like, oh shit, she doesn't know I'm this fucked up. I can't let her know.

I gotta fix myself while I'm trying to speak gay. And then the third part was, you know, when you're, when you care about people, but you know you're fucked up, you avoid them. And so I just, I went to my mom's house, sat her down, and I was like, hey mom, you know, I've been not around for about a year. You know I'm fucked up. You haven't really called me out on it. I just want to down and was like, hey mom, you know. I've been not around for about a year. You know I'm fucked up.

You haven't really called me out on it. I just want to tell you thank you because that didn't polarize my mindset. You know, it doesn't galvanize me. I think people in that state, people come out of the wrong way. You know, you're fucked up. You need to fix yourself.

I'm like, oh fuck you, I'm gonna do more shit. So anyways, I told her, I really appreciate that you've got six brothers. You've seen them all fuck up before and you just never really made me feel bad about it even when I was around and kind of shamed about it. But don't worry, you know, you see me, you see me go down dark a couple of times in life already.

I just wanna let you know, I'm gonna fix it. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna fix it so don't worry, mom, it's good. And it just took about a year to really get out of the whole book fitness was this kind of recurring theme. Wow, man. Dude, what about that? That's tremendous.

What about that? That's crazy. Transition from like the withdrawals and stuff like that, because if you got, if you went down the pathway, dude, I mean, that had to be a motherfucker to come off of. It was, man. And to be honest, you know, because I was still in the game, the, the money, it was funny money, it didn't really exist.

So I could always drop, you know, some bread was still in the game, the, the, it was funny money, it didn't really exist. So I could always drop, you know, some, some bread on some more shit. And, and I would, and it would, if you had it, and you kind of do it, and especially you get triggered, you know, so, so, you know, I'm, I'm talking to, I'm talking to this girl, and, you know, when things didn't work out, she was young, she was fickle, and, ah, fuck you then I'd go,

I'd go smoke, you know what I mean? Or, or just other things would trigger me, but, but it would gradually reduce, you know, it's kind of like, you, fuck you then I'd go smoke, you know what I mean? Or just other things would trigger me, but it would gradually reduce. You know, it's kind of like, you know, training with an injury takes time for it to, right? You'll forget that it was there eventually, but it takes maybe a year, you know,

when you have a significant injury, to even as you're getting better, you have these little backslides, like, I'd stepped up, you know, try to accelerate too fast, and it got fucked up again, or a little bit, you know, but hopefully not as bad as the original injury. So this is kind of this diminishing power

that it had over me, but it took phases, iterations of going through it. So it's like you quit, but you didn't really quit, and then you quit, and you didn't really quit, and yeah. And then one day I was like, it was at a party, and I didn't, I smoked it. That was the other thing. You smoking it to me is like a whole different level than, than snorling, snorling stuff.

There's so much faster, right? Yeah, it just, it was like, then you, you, you, it's kind of like this whole vaping thing. You see how people like, oh, they've vaped and then the little electronic vapors and then they want to show off how big of a smoke they can blow. Yeah. You know,, I'm a dragon. That's kind of the game it was. So you almost made this competitive thing and it was like, it really wasn't about the competition. You're just trying to get fucked up, but you're trying to make it seem this external, this external community engagement with other fucking tweakers. Now, have you gone back and kind of unpacked all that to figure out what kind of drove you down that path? And what maybe you were hiding from or what you were trying to be numb to?

Have you ever gone and done work on that before? Yeah, I think just that reality of those three experiences with death, it just shook me to my core. I didn't think that it basically altered my perspective on what good meant, or if you're a good person, you're gonna not suffer in certain ways. All those people were good people to me, the way that they left was as big of an impact on me as the fact they were gone.

So my grandmother just had her second open heart surgery. She wasn't recovering well. And so they rushed her to the hospital. Then they did an emergency third open heart surgery. But then she died. So I'm like, why even make her suffer that way? She could have just went out. And she was like one of the sweetest people I ever knew.

So instead of being at the hospital, I went, we're at the hospital. I drove to her house and I just laid in her bed. You know, I just wanted to be, while that energy was still there, you know. And so, so yeah, that means, is that and then the different iterations of it and just, it just, definitely just shook me to my core.

And I think, to be honest, I would look back and as we get older, man, we build these walls and we start toughening ourselves, but toughening ourselves in a lack of sensitivity, a lack of actual, it turns into a lack of awareness of self. And I'm like, fuck, even now, I'm thinking like, man, I'm trying to tear down these walls and I'm like, fuck, these things are big. They're tall and big. I'm like, shit, you know, this is a lot more work than it's been.

So whether it was at that phase or even now, you know, making a move out to Austin and just like being away from my pillars of support, my family and other things, I just realized I mean, it's still happening. It happens behind the scenes and maybe it doesn't drive me to do the things I was doing before. You dive into your work sometimes, or you dive into other things that you hold value to as well, but sometimes you don't realize some things

that you're sacrificing. It's just an interesting thing about humanity, I think I'm finding more and more about myself, but going through mastermind programs or stuff this, like personal development, self-development stuff, it realises like, hey, whenever time I do that, I uncover these truths about myself. I start remembering things about,

I'm realizing about other people at the same time and also realizing that these are the limiting factors in my business, in my relationships, and everything else that actually aspire to accomplish. So yeah, I don't know exactly what I was trying to hide from other than just the pain of acknowledging that, you know, childhood beliefs, the adolescent beliefs of the world, or, you know, not even adolescent,

the more pure, the more innocent beliefs that you have when you're young are no longer there, you know? And so that's a painful transition, I think. Absolutely. Have you always been, your characters coming through, and it's quite powerful. I'm sure people listening right now can hear it. Have you always been this growth-minded

and self-aware of this kind of character, or was it just because it's been developed through these battles? Nah, man, I'd be completely dishonest if I didn't say that I was just born kind of an older soul. So I was like a little kid, and I remember a party in with my dad, and they're young.

So in the 70s and early 80s, everybody had kids and they're 20 years old. So I didn't have my child until 35. And I thought, man, what the fuck? You know, I thought I was way behind schedule. I was gonna have a kid, have a house, when it's 25. You know, how many of you guys had that hold on? My mom had me at 20, dude.

My mom had me at 20. And my dad committed suicide by time was seven. So I can totally relate to the stories right now. Man, man, you know, sorry to hear that, brother. But, you know, I think it's important. A lot of people that a lot of people have a lot of judgment or they don't understand. They don't understand also the impact it has on everybody else.

You know what I mean? So in the family, in the whole community, it just creates this big void. But it's up to us to figure out what we need to do to heal from that, right? I think that's why I have a lot of compassion when I meet almost anybody, because you just don't fucking know.

Yeah, I'm saying like, you meet some guy and you're like, oh, he's a fucking asshole, fuck that guy. And it's like, well, do you know what that dude could potentially have been through for the last 20 years of his life and the fact that he's still breathing and going and stuff like that's a victory? So I think that having a childhood or a background like that

just gives you a lot of compassion probably for a lot of people. How, how difficult, was it difficult for you to, because you're talking about it now and you're talking very openly and I really appreciate that. Has it, has it always been this easy for you to talk about these things or was this a process, is this part of the process? I tend to prefer being a really transparent man. You know, I, I have one version of me, you know, a lot of people they wear a lot of different masks. And to me, that's a painful process to try to be something anything less than purely authentic.

And so if I'm going to have a conversation with people, I hope to build a relationship with, even if we have this audience that, you know, I don't know, I haven't connected with, you know, all I know is I'm sitting in front of these three guys that I really respect, I really want to be able to say, like, hey, man, you know, let's figure out how we can do things together and really blow shit up. Like I can't, I can't afford to miss my opportunity to be able to say like, hey man, you know, let's figure out how we can do things together and really blow shit up. Like, I can't afford to miss my opportunity to be completely transparent, completely authentic because then you have to figure out which version of me is the one you're talking to. Right. Right. And to me, I just don't know, I don't even know how to do it. You know, even growing up, a lot of my boys would give me a hard

time to call me like, sensitive, or something like that. Yeah, you know, like motherfucker, you're the one upper. I'm the sensitiveo. I don't know if you remember there's this commercial where they had like the different types of dudes and it was always the one upper. Yeah. Yeah, like you came in with the new car and you put it out, just lamb oak here.

So I like that. Oh my god. And then there's the joke is like, oh, this guy, he's sensitiveo, he's like over here right in poetry at the bottom. But the thing was, they give me a hard time because it's like, oh man, this guy, he says to Tivo, he's over here writing poetry at the bottom of the screen. But the thing was, they give me a hard time because it's like, oh man, you know,

check out that girl, she's feeling, I go talk to her, I'm like, ah, nope, not into it, you know? And it's like, you're like, no, you just, just close, just like finding a rhythm, you know what I mean? I'm like, nah, to me, it's not really like that, anything that feels inauthentic doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right, you know, it's just not worth it. So you're terrible at lying.

I'm horrible at lying. So if I try to be here and you hear a lot of ums or me trying to fabricate things on the fly, it's just not work. So I totally identify with that. I'm the same way. You go through all kinds of stuff in your early 20s. You start to get yourself cleaned up

You find fitness you start working out where do you where do you finally move your way into the gym industry and get a gym before you even meet on Oh shit man to be honest. There's a couple there's a phase that kind of bridges that gap. So yeah, so I was I was like oh come and get this certification and then and then there's a practical Santa Cruz worked with the well-known retired bodybuilder, and I'm like, man, this dude's in pain, you know what I mean? So not to say that you can't do bodybuilding in a way. Now there's so many different perspectives. You can integrate into that and have a more

like functionally aesthetic, aesthetically pleasing. I think Adam's done a great job with that. You know, I've seen him do some wild movement shit and he's a big swole dude. And the thing about it is, a lot of that wasn't part of the perspective before. So I just didn't realize that at that time, everything was so dogmatic and everything was so compartmentalized even at that point in early 2000s. So I got that and I was like, okay, cool. But this is the same shit I was doing, curls for the girls in my garage when I was in high school.

And so I started looking for more, looking for more stuff, but internet wasn't really blowing up yet. Right. But muscle media 2000 was a publication and started writing, Paul Satsaline started writing articles and I'm like, what the fuck is this dude? It was really witty, funny, kind of dry, since he humored, but the information was something I never saw before in terms of the way he delivered.

It was highly practical and very, like, had a scientific background, but it was distilled into terms that anybody can understand and apply, and I was like, man, that's just trying to talk over you. No, yeah, it was distilled into the most simple form, and if you did it, I was like, man, that's just trying to talk over you. No, it was distilled into this most simple form. And if you did it, you're like, oh shit, this shit works. And so I started buying every piece of content

that he put out, started applying it. And I got, went from like that 135 pound methodic to 175 pound shredded, and really fucking strong dude. And so it was great. So I wanted to go deeper, deeper, deeper. I found a testimonial he wrote for this dude, Scott Sannon, he was moving crazy. I never seen anything like it.

And I had a martial arts background. So I was like, really kind of like, I want to move like that. That's fucking weird. So I started getting his content. It was horribly horrible recordings of VHS. He's like more snow than anything else. You're like, oh, shh, shh, shh.

You know, production left a lot to be desired back then. And so I know you're an OG trainer if you're getting some of your information on VHS. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I'm telling my age here a little bit, right? You know what I'm saying? What the fuck's the VHS? Listen, but the whole wrap it in this game for a minute.

I've been watching VHS fitness shit. Come on. Man, I had a whole bookshelf of VHS. But then I saw, in 2002, I spent a whole year just doing nothing but swinging kettlebells and clubs. Like, wow, back in 02, you said. 02. Wow.

It's not in the head of the game, bro. Yeah, nobody was using clubs, especially back then. Maybe I summed kettlebells, but, well, I was pretty rare clubs, no but a year. Yeah, yeah, and so I just, this weirdo, and anybody who would let me torture them, they went in the garage with me, and they're like, you know, obviously, couldn't walk for a week, you know.

Back then, it was a lot less refined, the delivery is like, I bought my kettlebells, and I couldn't walk for a week after my first session, so I just wanted to share that with everybody, you know. Hammer strings are so blown out. And so that was a process. 2003, I went through both of those guys' certifications. And I think that's been the foundation of my perspective, my martial arts instructor

when I was young. He had an integrative approach, boxing judo, judo, juditsu, and karate, which is kind of like blasphemy back then in terms of integrating all martial arts have done that over like from history, but then when you're new and you do it, you're like, oh no, you're not supposed to do that, it doesn't honor the tradition. And so I realized back then, I just wanna do what works. It doesn't really matter what you call it or,

but if someone's trying to throw me, I'm gonna fucking punch them upside the head, you know, or the neck, I don't care, you know, someone's trying to, to grapple me, I'm going to fucking punch them upside the head, you know, or the neck. I don't care. You know, if someone's trying to, to grab them, we have to shove my fist in their face. So when, back and forth, and so it was really about practicality and effective application. So when these two schools of thought, they didn't really jive, really rigid hard style, really fluid movement in swinging clubs, it was like more like dancing almost, you know, like, and so for me, I was like, no, it makes perfect sense that these are two opposite sides

of the same coin and everybody else, you know, they tried to integrate those things and it weren't very successful. That's kind of the foundation of what evolved into, to put me in a great position was, I made those two things work really well together. And then I started finding other modules I thought filled in the gaps. And once I became a professional, I brought in a lot of education and to do that. So in 2003, I got those things certified. I didn't start training people professionally in 2007, but I was training people for free. So you're still working at a hotel business at this time?

I was working in hotels. I was still doing the street thing. I was working in behavior sciences with autistic kids. I was working hotels. I was still doing the street thing. I was working behavior sciences with autistic kids I was working in mortgage Whatever whatever game there was that I thought you know, I could Take some skills away from That's that's what I was I was trying to do so I thought real estate was important I was trying to get insurance. They wouldn't give me a state license, right?

And we're trying to work in real estate as a real estate agent. They wouldn't give me a license. So I just worked in the industry. I managed a team, a processing team. I managed a team of loan originators. And so I was still in a position of authority and control, but I wasn't able to hold a broker's license or anything. That's right. Yeah. Right, right.

So you're doing that then when do you actually get your first gym? So 2007, I start training people at Golds Gym, right? Insulinus. I was just crazy. They call me either Tarzan or fucking Caveman because I'm swinging clubs. I'm doing these crazy. Nobody else is probably doing it at that time. Yeah, girls are on the treadmill and they're facing me and they're like giggling and pointing and you know what I mean?

And the guys are like, oh, they're flexing and they try to come here. Do you mind if I try that? I'm like, go ahead and try it. You know, like the fuck bro, that's heavy. That's hard. Like, hey man, you know, but you know, and I can't do exactly what they do, but maybe I can do most of everything they can do. And some shit, a lot of shit nobody else could do. So then I started to have this weird reputation and met this other trainer. He's like, oh, you're, you're, you're crazy, Vato, man.

Hey, you, you like this other crazy fucker, you know, he's here at night. You need to come back at night and catch away. It was his name, Jim, Jim Romig. I was like, okay, cool. So I catch up with the other crazy fucking trainer in the gym and then we start, you know, architecting some type of future where we could collaborate and share visions and do stuff like that.

And still, I was just kind of casual at that, started doing it more and more and more, built out my little detached garage in my backyards to train people in there. Then transition to, I was like, man, I'm only touching like the people have money. You know, even back then it was like $50, $60 a session. Now that's nothing, you know, compared to what we're charging out in Austin, but at the same time, insolentist, the economic sucked. Especially at that time too. Especially at the time.

So like, my dream wasn't to like serve the upper upper 20% and it was to like, change lives, you know? So, 2008, some of my clients, I was like, man, I'm thinking about doing this bootcamp and the park thing and they're like, well, I know people on city council, so if it doesn't go through, then I'll get them to back you. And so we started using the parks,

doing boot camps in the parks, October 2008. And then I was like, man, this kind of sucks, lugging 2,000 pounds of kettlebells and it quit me into the park five times a day. I bought a truck just to do that. And then I started, I found out, I would start looking at commercial real estate and I was like, oh, just dreaming.

You're like, oh, this would be a good gym. This would be a good gym. I had this lady show me this property. And I was like, this would be the perfect spot. And I was like, oh, you know, to be honest, I can't really afford it. She's like, what do you want to do here? I was wanting to build a gym.

She said, well, the other people looking at it want to build a gym too. Say, well, here's my card. Give it to them. Ask them to call me. And because this is a big nut for any facility that's just opening, maybe we can collaborate. I get the call from the guy, Frank Natt, awesome dude.

I happen to do a little free workshop for the black belts of this martial arts studio. He and his wife and there since we're all part of that. Oh no shit. It's my world. Yeah, like John, oh yeah, we know. You did this workshop for us. I was like man, hey you know what, let's meet up for dinner.

I wanna see if we can do something together in this space. And yeah, it just really worked out. So we worked together for 18 months. So you ended up getting this gym together or creating it together? Creating it together, yeah, we figured out how to share the schedule, share the space. Our communities were different,

but we're aligned in energy, you know? So it was always like, there's always still like two different communities, but at the same time, we knew that we're thriving as a result of our willingness to collaborate and share resources. And so, you know, they're training influence the future perspectives we had, our training influence the future perspectives they had.

You know, we brought in a bunch of equipment, they wanted to learn how to use it, vice versa. So it really worked out. And it's a growing up process to not have a big ego and learn to collaborate on that level too, especially in limited resources space, time. And so 18 months we did that. And then I was like, I think we're out growing this.

I think you guys are well-established and you probably outgrowing this relationship in this space and it's comfortable as it is, is not allowing us to take the next step. So I grabbed a 5,000 square foot space down the street about a mile and a half and then that was the gym, the gym opening. Oh, wow, that's awesome. And how long are you running that before you make your way over to Austin? So December 1st, 2010, my dad's birthday we opened, grand opening, and then, 2014, August the 2014, is when I moved to Austin. Okay. Now, when you moved to Austin, did Aubrey or somebody connected on it,

find you or no of you, and then you moved over there? Or did you go over there with no idea? So yeah, I was the top of a short list is what I said earlier, right? So how'd you get on this list? Yeah, so what happened was my predecessor, this guy marked a grass.

He had a publication called My Mad Methods Magazine. It was an unconventional training magazine based in Orange County. Eventually, so he and I, we caught up, because he wanted some content and he got a referral to me, to me and my team. So he came up one day and he shot a bunch of content just for YouTube and stuff.

And I asked him like, well, he was shooting with my business partner, Jim, the other crazy fucking trainer that was at gold. So Jim was doing some club work for MMA athletes. And so that was the theme of their article and the content they shot. And then I was like, well, shit, you're here. You just drove up from Orange County. You know, like, you want some more content. You know, as a content producer, he's like, fuck, yeah, I want more content. As a well, he Jim's doing some club shit. I'll do some kettlebell stuff. Because, you know, again, those are the two things that were the foundation of the frame of mind that we had other than body weight stuff, but tool-specific stuff tend to jive, and he's like, well, yeah, kettlebells will usually do something in that market right then. I was like, well, what does your audience want?

He's like, well, there's two ways to go about it. Do something really fucking heavy, or do something people have never seen before. And I was like, well, I'm strong, but there's always gonna be someone who can match that weight. And so then I was like, I'm gonna do shit no, it's never seen before. So I had Jim call out like really, like call out an unconventional body weight movement.

And then I'll turn it into, like on the fly I'll turn it into a flow sequence integrating that movement with a kettlebell movement. And so basically it was almost like on a dare like do this. You know, I was like, uh, and then I did this crazy shit, right? And so it was fun because it was purely organic and, uh, just allowed for an expression of like 10 years of investment in mastery of these skills in, in a format that I didn't even challenge myself to do before.

But that video kind of blew up. And then we collaborated on a DVD called Evolution, kettlebell, groundwork, basically just how you can develop the attributes to actually do that without fucking yourself up because people were trying to emulate what I was doing. Like, no, don't do that. I was just showing off and having fun. Not running.

It's not something I want people that indiscriminately tried to do. Anyway, yeah. So, but Mark, it always realizes like, hey, you know, we had an integrative approach to our training methodology at our studio. Most people would be a kettlebell person, or they would swing clubs, or they would do yoga, or they would, you know, when Animal Flow came out, they prefer to do Animal Flow or whatever the case is, but it was really like, at the most,

it had one or two trick ponies, you know, and the way that the two things they subscribe to most, and we're like, fuck that, we use everything, and we put it all together in a cohesive system so that they're not competitive but complementary. Right. And so when they wanted to do education, Mark's like, no, I'm a content producer, I'm an info marketer. I don't do education, but I know who you guys would want.

And they flew me out, I sat in a room for two days, architecting this whole education system on the whiteboard. And uh, this is that on it? This is on the whiteboard. And uh... This is that on it? This is that on it, yeah. And then I interviewed with Aubrey and you know, he like looked right into my soul and at the end of the interview he's like, okay so wolf, yeah. So you're basically a care bear that wants to fuck everybody. Tell a dirty joke, Santa.

But I'm literally the first down there, I'm hugging everybody. I'm just like, that's just who I am, my family. We just like really loving huggers. Huggers, man. Hug everybody. Don't matter, you can be sweaty, nasty, funky. You still get in a hug. At the studio on the way out, that was how you cashed out.

You know, you work out, you have a cash out sometimes. Yeah, yeah. All right, the cash out is like positive human contact. If you don't want to hug, you have to give me a high five. It's okay. You don't have to do the hug thing if you're not a hugger. Yeah. But, you know, you can't leave without some type of affirmation. You know, some type of physical affirmation.

That's cool. That's a good job. But yeah, so, so after that, that was in April. I went back to Selena, started architecting, like, refining the deliver, the curriculum. And that was our, back then it was called level one, it's now called our foundations courses. It's basically like a smorgasbord

of all the different methodologies and a framework of how to understand how they plug and play together and play nice together versus just me or just club or whatever. And so it's a really cool thing because in people it's like, almost like going to a big Las Vegas buffet. If you never had you know

They all have the different tables like they have the Japanese food table. They have the Italian food table They have you know the dessert table. That's my favorite But if you never had some of those foods and a lot of people and you know a lot of people if you don't grow up around here Here we we've had it all right and we are culturally diverse play as culturally diverse places you can be San Jose Monterey, Melting Park right here. Yeah, I can tell the difference between a Vietnamese, a Korean, a Japanese, a Chinese, most people who can't. Yeah, you just lump them up into one. And you're wrong all the time.

I can say thank you and hello in almost all those languages and I can order food in almost all those languages, right? And almost every other one too. But yeah, so that integral approach, I kind of totally lost track of what I was thinking. Well, what's cool about where you're at right now, which is, you know, all of us had found on it, I don't know how many years ago, and Justin was, I think, the first one to find it

and turn all of us on it. And what, it's now hearing this story, it's really cool because what turned us on about on it besides the cool branding, because I do like the branding, is this piece, was you, was what you brought to on it, because we had all been doing this for 15, 20 years

and one of our biggest pet peeves with the industry. It's all the tribalism. Yeah, it's all the tribalism and the separating so many great tools and great modalities that should be intertwined for a human optimization for the average person who just wants to be a better human like you should be using all these fucking tools but nobody was really presenting that information.

It was, I'm an Indian club guy, I'm a Mace guy, I'm a body builder guy, I'm a runner, you know what I'm saying? It's like, never made any sense to me. Never made any sense to me because even though I may not personally be doing all these different modalities myself I could see the value and the benefit and I could respect and appreciate them and as a trainer It was like wow I could really see how something from this can benefit this particular client over there And if I'm being an honest trainer, I'm gonna try and do the best thing for the client and sometimes that means that you look at

Your tool belt and you got to add a new tool You know, I'm saying? If I have a screwdriver and a hammer, sometimes I may need something else that's gonna do the job. I may need saw or something like that. And, you know, looking at all these different modalities, they exist for a reason. Yeah.

On it did that very well. And that's what really drew us to that. Well, shit, you know what I'm saying. It was you who did that really well. Let's be honest. I mean, that's, knowing that story now, I didn't know that's how. I didn't know if on it had all these ideas

then they found just a badass trainer and they integrated you, but you really integrated all the systems into on it. Well, the systems, yes, but to be honest, the vision was already there, right? So on it, they wanted to go. Yeah, they wanted to go because they already had, well,

Aubrey's a philosopher and history buff. So, you know, the reason that they had clubs and maces, because the historical context of it. But the reality was, it's like the evolution of the education is the result of me, the refinement of that stuff. But he was looking at it more from that, like the Paulani mindset is like, okay, it was more like, like you see a lot of people are traditionalists with maces,

they still just attended Tuesdays and 360s or with Indian clubs, they're just doing like, you know, bass, shoulder rotation stuff, like hot swings. And it doesn't make it wrong. It just means like for me, what I wanted to do is look at how to integrate that into a framework that respected modern understanding of biomechanics

and had a focus not on purely the historical applications with not everybody's a fucking wrestler not everybody right right. So not everybody wants to do Kettlebell's for pissed off the purists because I know that like I'm a fucking heretic. Exactly everybody right. Because you guys are really yeah exactly. I mean, even with martial arts, obviously, you see that, too, where people, they want you to stay in that one school and master that. And then integrating these other different schools is blasphemy. And I felt the same way with kettlebells,

because you have very similar background to you as far as being the guy in Gold's Gym with Olympic rings and with kettlebells. And everybody's like, what the fuck are you doing? And it was just this, for me, I've always been very curious as to what else is out there. What are these other people doing? But me, you know, vesting in, getting certified,

and then taking away what I felt was like the most impactful, most beneficial that would blend well and play nice, you know, with these other, you know, dumbbells, barbells, everything else. How do we incorporate all of it? So I definitely took notice of on it for that reason. You mentioned the history of some of these, I find that absolutely fascinating.

I'm not super versed. I know a little bit about the history of some of these training modalities, because I think a lot of people see clubs and kettlebells and like, oh, it's the newest thing. And it's like, actually, it's the oldest thing. Yeah, actually, it's before dumbbells and barbells. Like, do you know the history of some of these tools? I'd love to go into kind of why, how they were used historically and, you know,

why we have them now. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I probably wouldn't be the best in terms of historians on these things. You know, people like Dr. Ed Thomas. Yeah. He's someone you'd want to bring in here and talk about that. But I mean, we can superficially kind of flirt with those ideas and, and understand, you know, the, the reality has been for me.

I'd like to, I'd like to know enough about that. But then I think the, a big thing is, is, uh, so another reason why I haven't, like, I don't always know everybody who's in the know. Like a lot of times because I'm a big introvert, so for me, I don't seek validation externally to the processes that I'm trying to work through. I do that after I internalize them on a deep way, and then if it makes sense inside,

then I can put a lot of faith in it. But yeah, we can talk about some of the history of the stuff in the audience, if I get some facts wrong, you know. Oh, don't worry, they're quick to let us know we do. Well, let's start with clubs. Like, wow. Like, where did clubs, I guess, come from,

and what were they used for traditionally, and what are they, what is unique about clubs, for example, that's beneficial from using them versus other pieces of equipment? Oh man, that's a fun one, right? So like, there have been studies that argue that the human hand evolved to do two things. Throw, throw shit.

And so you need that highly articulate, a great articulation in the hand, so you can finesse things that you throw and be able to, and you see that in baseball. Look at the type of things they do with the fucking ball, right? But Jake Arietta trains at the gym lately, and you're like, oh, this is fucking so cool. So cool.

Yeah, you know, he's a big guy like you Adam, so you're like, oh man, hello, sir. Hey, bro, it fascinates me with they do with the baseball, bro. How much we've evolved that sport, man. So crazy. That is. And so that's something. And then to swing club like objects, which we're historically, you know, some, it

didn't have to look like a club. It was a stick or a fucking whatever the stick, a sword, an extension of a arm. Exactly. It's an extension of our lever systems, right? And to be able to articulate the hand and make it a continuous part of extension of those levers. And so, so that's argumentally, like potentially, that's the reason our hands evolved to be so different than our other primates, right? So we can go back that far, but then you have historically from a training methodology the Persians and Indians had taken club swinging and they had different versions of clubs whether meals or

or other like stone clubs or clubs with spikes on them and they're all just used in a more traditional sense you know like more of these big rotations more like like a single arm, circular rotations behind the back and then pulled over. And then they would do it even historically. They have like Paul Loney, House of Power. They do it to music in an arrhythmic fashion for long, long, long sets, like almost like rhythmic kettlebell sport. But again, the drill selection is

relatively limited because the materials dictated that the tools were really big. And so that alters the mechanics to a great degree, even meals. I saw Justin swinging some big meals, but to get a decent weight, you have a lot of material and the diameter that material changes the mechanics. So now with modern material steel, particularly, you can have a lot more consistency because even if you use high quality wood, the density of wood is going to be variable at different points. So every tool is very unique, which makes it really cool. Like, oh, these are my favorite. This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. With the club, it's a standard, standardized manufacturing process, with the steel clubs.

Now, greater consistency, the mechanics can be refined to a greater degree, and the drill selection can be opened up because of the relatively narrow profile of the tool. We've been able to do a lot more with the tool with these modernized clubs. And again, you have to get credit to Scott for that. So the clubs, the first one to do that. He's part of TACFIT, right? Yeah, TACFIT.

I used to be the US director of education for their systems, the circular strength training and TACFIT. So clubs really good for that articulation of the hands and wrists and rotational strength. Rotational strength. Rotational strength. Yeah, and so that's the rotational strength

is actually your recurring theme of all the tools. I'm about to, we talked about being a heretic and blasphemer. We're coming out with the unconventional barbell course at the end of March. So it's like Easter weekend. But if any of you guys want to come, do you guys come? So you do a bunch of weird stuff with barbells? Oh wow. I do a bunch of weird stuff with barbells, no doubt.

But it's less about imparting doing weird stuff with barbells and more about an understanding of how to challenge the thought process of why you only use barbells the way that you use them. And then empowering people with it's for all of our education, not about a library of drills, it's about a thought process, right? And about the ability to validate why you're doing what the fuck you're doing because we don't want a bunch of drones saying, well, John Wolf said this. Like, no, no, John Wolf never said that. John Wolf asks questions. John Wolf says, well, what is the fucking outcome you want? Who are you training?

What's their history? And then we can come up with a unique game plan. But... So rather than teaching people what to think, you're teaching them how to think. Yeah, that comes with... Hopefully, that's what I'm hoping we're doing. And giving them tools to connect to their clientele and a more deep and you know

Like a little more. Man, it's about trust and communication Like psychology trumps physiology. You can have a perfect program But if if you're coaching somebody the interaction you have in the trust they have and you it drives response You know what I love about talking with Trainers have been trainers for a long time, who are really good trainers. Yeah, they get that. Yep, because, you know, if you've got a bunch of people

trying to come up with an answer to a problem, and you've got a lot of people working really hard, they're really smart, like a lot of integrity, at some point they're all gonna come to the same answer, because there's one answer, you know, or at least a set of answers to the particular problem. So it's, I've never met you, but a lot of what you're saying, you're echoing a lot of what we said.

And it's like, it's just because it's the truth. You know what I mean? It's multiple sources of validation of truth, of the truth, right? And so, so a lot of times now people are like, oh no, fuck that, I was the first one to do that. Mother fucker, you weren't the first one to do shit. Yeah.

You might be the first one to express it in your words and your, you know, your unique experience that got you there is very valid and very valuable. But fuck, human beings have been moving the same ways for millennia. Somebody long before any of us dancers have fucked up and done better movement than a lot of us. People have been expressing themselves

through cultural dance and movement and training in a variety of different ways. Since before we could record it. Exactly. We're meaning on shoulders of giants. And I think we all just forget that. And it becomes this ego thing. Well, I came up with this system

and you're copying my system and this and that. And that's like, oh, I see. It's so ridiculous. I remember going, I went to the Louvre Museum, which is in Paris. It's wonderful museums. One of the best museums I've ever been to. And there was an ancient, there was a section with ancient Greek and Roman art. And at the time, I was training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. And I had learned this particular position that I had learned. Right? So, and it just was this particular position that I had learned, right? So, and it just wasn't in my mind. I was just walking through this art section,

and there was a tablet that was about that size. So, you know, about the size of like a normal sized poster. And on the tablet, carved into the tablet was were these wrestlers. So this thing is like, I don't know, 2500 years old, 3000 years old, and they were doing, it was a move that I had learned like last week that I thought was this new cool,

like oh shit, this is a new cool. I'm like that's fucking this moves old. I should've been around forever, man. It still works though. And it's still works. That's still works, that's still works. That's still works, sticks. Yeah, right, right.

What about kettlebells? Like what's the history of those? And what are those good for? That's different than like using other tools like like clubs? You know, so historically, I that's another one has been around forever But what they'd use it to measure the weight of dry goods are historically right so they weren't they weren't ergonomically sound you know, they're just someone it's someone was like, oh, this is cool. It's a weight And I want to get stronger. I'm gonna use this weight that you we used to measure grain, right?

And so then of all of a sudden, you know, it evolved. So it's a measuring tool first. Yeah, I was measuring those first. Like, you know, you're at the farm or at the market and it's like, okay, well, it's a pood. A pood sounds, sounds funny, right? Yeah. It's roughly 16 kilos. That's like the past tense of pood. Yeah. I pood. Yeah. So I'm pooing so I'm pooing. I might poo. I pooed. So you go to buy your 60 pounds of beef and they counterbalance it with the kettlebell.

Exactly, right? So that's from what it might understand. That's the original context of it. And then the guy who's probably waiting every day starts to notice he's starting to get more jacked in the show. Maybe I should start doing this the other day. There you go. Oh, yeah, exactly, right? He's starting to get more jacked. I'm jacking the show. Maybe I should start doing this the other way. I said it's huge. There you go.

Oh, yeah, exactly, right? And so then, you know, you know, then it became this sport in Russia, right? I don't know the evolution from there to there, but then there's our understanding of modern kettlebells who came from, Pavel's, you know, transporting of kettlebells over here and him doing kind of what I like to think I'm, Paulville's, you know, transferring of kettlebells over here. And him doing kind of what I like to think I'm trying to do is like, well, applying modern science to our current understanding of movement

and training into a tool that has a time, you know, time-honored tradition. And so then in doing so, he polarized the kettlebell thought process, right? You had the sport and you had the hard style. In the RKC, yeah. And so that's been really cool,

but I love kettlebells because of the versatility, the portability, man, you know, like, it still bridges the gap of traditional strength training and then ballistics and offset load. So it's, but it's not offset to the degree that a mace or a club is. So there's the easier to teach, maybe a little bit, you know, in some ways, it's harder. It's really weird. Um, if I want to teach a swing, I find a narrow stance, like a, you know, like your, your, your stance is a hip width.

And you look at like skiing or like a vertical jump, you would naturally explode off of that platform. Like your narrow stance. So two relatively light clubs outside the legs swinging in that way is much more natural than a short lever because the timing, like the longer lever lets your body and train to the timing much more easily versus the short lever and especially enough. Cause your hips wanna break too early all the time with a kettlebell. Exactly. It really does the same thing. Exactly, but with the clubs, it's really easy

cause you can even see them in your periphery as they move. Huh. With a kettlebell it just, it drops and then you wanna, you know, people get almost loose sight. Plus the damn things moving right towards your nuts. If you're, you know what I mean? Valid point. Yeah, well I not tell people like play chicken with your nuts. If you're not a valid point.

Yeah, well, I'd not tell people like play chicken with your nuts. You know, trust me, you'll move. You'll move. It's kind of like, remember when you're young and the girls get mad at you and they want to kick you in the nuts. You know, you'd be talking to somebody looking away and I will say your knee's just closed. Like, it's like a force field.

There is. That's where you're working. We have a seven cents. Guys have a seven cents right there. Of the penis, man, that's insane. Yeah, this is a protective reflex. Some of it's a little overprotective, like a flinch reflex if you've ever been a fighter.

If someone barely moves towards you and you flinch, the hand wasn't even, you're gonna get clocked, right? So you have to de-sensitize it. So you have to get people to realize it. You need to get the kettlebell closer to your nuts before you break your hips, man You know, that's buddy just the last minute That's so awesome. Are there any any tools on the horizon and stuff that are relatively new that you're excited about?

You know, it's taking I don't know if there's new issues or there are evolutions of other tools that have come out. What about the Bulgarian bag? That's what I was about to bring up. So the Bulgarian bag, it took me a while to really like appreciate it to the degree it is of how powerful it is. Maybe I'll let you guys in on a, I have this buddy who had been doing, you know, kettlebell

sport and Bulgarian bag training on the beach in this town called Vieste in Italy. Fucking beautiful place, right? So at the spur of the boot of Italy, not the heel, but the spur. It says beautiful like forest. It's not a national force and around it is like really great beaches and they have the Lidos. Wait, is that the toe of the boot? Is that calabria or is it on the other side? No, no, on the heel. Okay, so near Poulia. Exactly. and they have the Lidos. Wait, is that the toe of the boot? Is that calabria or is it on the other side? No, no, I'm the heel.

I love the heel. Oh, okay, so in your pulleah. Exactly, okay. Pulleah, exactly, exactly. So we're over there. And so he used to run these boot camps on the beach and he was in great Bulgarian bag and kettlebell and a bunch of body weight stuff.

And he had this place he built on the beach. I didn't get to see it, only in pictures. But at the same time, he'd been doing Bulgarian bag education. But then, you know, just like everything, but thing else is someone's IP. So you can only do so much with it without causing. They're very protective. And they're very protective, you know?

And that's fine, you know, that you bring something to the market, you want to protect it. Hey, that will limit the growth of that thing. You've seen that with Scott signing in the clubs. Why have clubs not taken off? Well, cause you're kind of a dick. Yeah, you know, I'm very open.

Yeah, so, you know, and same thing, you know, I don't know, I have an off, so I would never speak ill of him, but I know he's protective of his IP, and that's his right, so I don't have any judgment there. But it did result in my friend not being able to grow the way he wanted to grow. So we've collaborated on a project where we're using a more dynamic resistance version

of something similar to a Bulgarian bag. It's not a Bulgarian bag. It's a Bulgarian bag is what it is. So it's a hydro core. So it has variable handles because one of the things with the Bulgarian bag is those nipples, they're really challenging. And if you're distracted because you can't hold on to something, it's really hard to learn.

You see that with the clubs as well, right? It's so challenging and a very unique way. So once your hands give out, you start using really weird mechanics. Yeah, you start compensating it. You start compensating really quickly. And because you're afraid, you're gonna fucking lose it,

you know, same thing with the Bulgarian bag. So we worked on various different types of grips that attach to like a yolk shaped device that is water-filled. So the nice thing is now you have one tool that you can add a couple water, you have that variability of resistance and it's dynamic because the water is like a slosh pipe and something that you can use. That's so rare.

Yeah, it's a hydrochlor. So he already has some like social media assets that he's developed. Oh, it's already out. It's out. He just shows off his prototypes. Oh, cool. But, you know, they're in the production manufacturing process. So it's a really cool tool.

I think is highly portable because you just fold it up and put it in your, in your, in your, Oh, that's a case. And then you fill it up with water. You go to a pool and just dunk it in the pool, you know. That's dope. That's a, yeah. That's a fucking dope project.

That is so rad. Now, are you a part of that project? Or is it just a buddy of dope. That's a fucking dope project. That is so rad. Now, are you a part of that project or is it just a buddy of yours? It's a buddy of mine and you know, he wanted to team up with our education and our manufacturing and our brand. So I was like, man, this is a really cool. He's an idea guy. He's always coming up with crazy ideas.

Maurizio Tengari, great human being, fucking amazing, loving coach, just loving father. He's just like great dude, you know, and he's always, John, what about this idea? I'm like, well, that's not something that we would have an appetite for, but, you know, I can plug you in with other people. And this one, I was like, no, this one. Right up our alley.

Yeah. Everybody can use it. It travels well. It's, it's, again, one version, one of them you can start, you know, because you blow it up with air the rest of it. So it's still hold shape. It's not like just flopping around. So it'll hold that, that yoke shape. No, are you, are you, sorry, sorry, are you allowed to do things outside of on it? Or is that conflict of interest? Like, are you allowed to collaborate and it has nothing to do with on it? If you were to do a project and you're like, hey, you know what, man, let's you and I create a program together and do something around this.

Or do you keep everything in house? Well, at my current state, it on it is being an executive, right? So I'm really honored to have a title that doesn't exist as far as I know, anywhere else. If you say CFO, it means Chief Financial Officer. I'm the CFO, motherfucker. Chief Fitness Officer. You know, I'm lucky to be one of the four horsemen, the four people that are running the company culturally and operationally. And so for me, it is always about weighing out the benefit

to on it. And what's really unique about on it is for the most part, people that aren't in my position, we really want everybody to use on it as a platform to build a personal brand. We want people to be there because they want to be there. And so one of the guys that works for me, has worked for me for these last couple of years,

he's, we've been fighting because he's a talented, hungry and fucking really like business savvy guy, but we've been fighting to figure out, well, what's his unique? How can he use his superpowers to benefit the team best? And so it's gone through different iterations or communications manager. He's evolved now to our strategic partnerships.

Basically, he's like the tip of the spear for all big partnerships. So Exos, I wanted, and he was one of our primary points of contact there. Gold's jam because of our history, all of us have done. I was like, man, I'm gonna honor my history. So I like to work with gold. So their corporate offices are in Texas.

So we landed a, there are 150 corporate locations are carrying on it product. And we're shit. And we worked with their director of education. So our education system has influenced something that they're looking to do internally at those 150 corporate locations called Golds Primal. And it's just good, good relationships.

And so he's presenting it D1 Sports Performance Summit this weekend as a keynote speaker, which is crazy. And so, and now he started a podcast called The Fitness Breakroom with Jessica Webster who was part of the the Barbell Shrug team before. Oh, okay. Oh, shit. And so I know you're talking about that.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that meant on it last summer or there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we met it. Oh, that's right. Oh, shit. And so I know you're talking about that. Yeah, they met on it last summer or there. Yeah, exactly. We met it. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Really pretty gal. Yeah, yup, yup.

Yeah, so he's doing this podcast and what's great is as the person who's a weaponized sales force for on it, he's out there building relationships. It's a lot easier for him to say, hey, do you want to be on my podcast than let's talk business about on it. Right. And so he was like, well, can I do this?

I was like, well, you know what? I'll support that. As long as when everything is said and done, the prioritization has to be, you're still a salary to employee. You still have to fulfill all your duties and obligations. But so long as you can synergistically accomplish both goals, then fuck you, let's

do this. I think it's good for you as a person and me, I work for the people who work for me, and I work for on it. So I'm in a unique position where I have to serve both of those masters. How many trainers underneath you there? At the gym? Yeah. We have about a dozen.

A dozen of them? Yeah. Is it always been about that many, or did you guys grow it to that many? Or you scaled it back to that many? Have you been consistent? We've grown it. We've grown it to that many. Okay. Yeah. We started with about six. And we've been slow growing that that team because it just takes a long time to develop it when you have something is really comprehensive and you have a brand that's that's respected that way is better to grow it slow and develop those people slow because when people can't deliver the Deliver the service in a way that's

Inline with what we're putting out there in our message, right? Then it's got to be quality control. Yeah, it is total and that's why we don't want to do affiliate gems That's why we don't want to put up more on it gems all over the place We probably will partner with some people. We're working on a deal with hotel in downtown Las Vegas. It's a really unique situation. It's not something that is we're incurring great cost to do. And it is something that is a foothold in a place where we have cultural influence with MMA being a big part of our culture and Las Vegas being the hub of any major MMA events or most major MMA events. Obviously international stuff is big these days as well

with a international talent. Are you, is the gym, the trainers that work there, they work for you guys and then they get paid there, is that gym, are you guys trying to make that gym profitable or is that just part of the whole brand? And so it's not so much like let's make. Is that gym, are you guys trying to make that gym profitable or is that just part of the whole brand? And so it's not so much like, let's make this a profitable gym, like if you own your own gym, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's more of an experience. It's more of a validation of the philosophy of training.

That's what it feels like. It feels like, it doesn't feel like, because I've worked in gyms for more than half my life. And it doesn't feel like you're walking into a commercial gym that's trying to bust people in and out. Yeah, or make their money because it's a gym. and Jim's for more than half my life. And if it doesn't feel like you're walking into a commercial gym that's trying to bus people in and out. Yeah, or make their money because it's a gym, it feels more like it's just an extension of the brand

if you will, so. Yeah, I mean, you know, ultimately, what we've realized fitness is the marketing arm, it's the stickiness of the brand. You know, on it's got a powerful message, which helps, like in that message has not been diluted. And then, and so, like as far as, you know, on its got a powerful message, which helps, like in that message has not been diluted, and then, and so like as far as, you know, our founders message is on its message, right? So ovaries message is on its message. But, you know, there's the danger of falling out of favor with

regards to anything that's cool, is not cool at some point in time in their evolution. You get big enough, you become more corporate, whatever the case is. And so what we're finding now is through fitness and fitness education, we have stickiness to that, right? So we can impact lives in ways that people, people, if we do like an ad or something like that, we talk about fitness, it's such an easier conversation to have.

People know that they need to have a fitness regimen. They need to invest in their physical wellbeing through movement, practice of movement, or practice of meditation, or practice of whatever the case is versus it's a harder sell to say like put this in your body, eat this. And so, so it opens the doors to new conversations. A lot of the big partnerships that we're seeking are through. We're like, thankfully, like you guys just validated, right? Hey, we really loved, we held on it in even higher light because of the approach of our education and integration. And so when we talked to Exos, it was really awesome because, man, I've been admiring what

they've done in the market for a long, over a decade, right? And Mark Verstagen, you know, he's just, man, that dude's freaking amazing person, amazing business man, and again, it holds that same energy of, it, message is consistent, and is consistent through his whole organization, and, and seeing how that's evolved, and I'm like, man, that's so cool. And so when I met Mark, he's like, hey, John, I've been looking to for to meet you. I'm like, I'm looking for to meet you, man. And he's like, man, I just really love what you guys have done. Investing in education, that's how we really started.

We had this mentorship program. We weren't making any money, but we were investing in people, and that allowed us to develop this network of talent pool that as we grew internationally or here in the US market, we knew exactly who we wanted to tap on the shoulder because, hey, I had this person in Germany for five years, and then we're opening this facility at, I would call it Adidas, Adidas. So? You're going to say that right? Right. So then they already had people on the ground, boots on the ground that were aligned culturally and methodology, the systems that they applied all were part, they were already

on the ground using the content. So they just got to tap someone on the shoulder, put them in the place to make the win. And it's because well before they could benefit from it, they invested in the development of people through their education and their mentorship programs. So cool man. You mentioned that you're one of the four horsemen who are the other three and how often do you guys meet and talk about the direction of on it? Yeah, so every week, every week. So obviously Aubrey, right? He's the tip of the spear. He's the the visionary that drove everything through on it, right? And we have our, this team has evolved recently and it was a larger team now, it's smaller.

So then you have our our chief technology officer who is also serving right now with Aubrey to run the marketing department in this Josh Alley. Really a lot of the cool the marketing department in this Josh Alley. Really, a lot of the cool, like the fit and finish, the way the brand is presented through the technology of the website and even though like the cool little plug-ins that are created are all in-house, they're all proprietary. So it's really been cool to see how some of the stuff that he's done on the technology side is actually influenced other larger brands to copy, to copy on it in a lot of ways. That's cool.

It's because we're not always trying to copy everyone else. We're like, what if we do, you get inspired by something of someone that doesn't, and level it up, right? And so he's been a huge part of that. And then, and then so, so you have Aubrey or Chief Technology Officer or Chief Operating Officer who's a gentleman by the name of Jason Havie. Again, he has his own podcast, right?

Spinning Logic. And so he's just an amazing human, but he's kind of like the glue of the whole organization. You know, when Aubrey's not in the office, he's the one. He's the fixer, you know what I'm saying? And he oversees multiple departments, because now we're primarily a four person leadership team and we're hiring people not at the chief level, we bring them in at like a VP or even if they have a lot of experience, right?

So, and then myself. So it's really unconventional. It's a really unconventional structure. So everybody else, what we found was like if we had high level leadership, if they weren't culturally aligned with the vision of the brand, then they couldn't be that level of leadership. They could be just as powerful and impactful at a level that doesn't drive the culture as much, but gets shit done. Right, right. And so, you know, the level of trust in aspect that we have for each other,

as a smaller group allows us to be a little more cohesive and not have to worry about a lack of alignment in purpose or vision. And so, I think it's a new evolution to companies constantly evolving. And it's an honor to be at the table with those other three people. Oh, fuck yeah.

That's a big deal, man. What was it that, what was there an event or something that happened that made you guys all come together and realize we need to narrow this down to four of us that really, like you said, was there something that happened that made you narrow that group down? This is just natural evolution. You know what I mean? There was an exodus of a handful of people that, you know, a couple of people that were at the table. And, you know, whether that was of their own accordor

or a decision made from the rest of the leadership that it really doesn't matter, you know, those people were great people and they all contributed. But at the same time, what we just found was like the people who stayed, the people who are still there, they're the ones who hold more common vision for what needs to happen. Yeah. You know, being in a position like that, I mean, obviously it comes with a lot of responsibility

and there's obviously some fucking really cool parts. I mean, the fact that you get to be a part of the major decisions that happen with on it's fucking rad in itself. But with that probably comes with some hard decisions and stress too. Is there any part that you don't like or that? Yeah, dude, I think leadership comes with the ultimate responsibility. You can't live in black and white, man. It's never clear in your impacting people's lives positively or negatively with every choice you make. You know, acknowledging that and still being able to make the decision that's right for the entity, the organism of on it, because it's a living, breathing thing, you know, and it's driven

by the common belief. And then also, like sometimes good people are not meant to be part of that team anymore. You know, it doesn't make them less good, it doesn't make them less powerful in their own right. But, you know, there's like, they say there's three C's of hiring, I don't know if you ever heard that, but I always add a fourth. So it's like, you got your character

was the utmost importance to have someone of character when they join your team, otherwise there's gonna be really painful. But then you have secondarily, even if they're a good character, they're a culture fit, right? And then the competence, which everybody wants to hire on competence,

but it's really not nearly as important as first two. 100%. Because I can teach people to do whatever I need them to do, as long as as a leader, I know what I want to have done. Right? Building character is much more difficult. It's impossible Life does that for you hasn't then I don't want you

And then the fourth one is circumstance so like it on it We're always hiring people that are like on the uptick, you know like oh call it hot and don't know it yet You know like oh that guy has raw talent. You just needs to be nurtured and or this gal is just got so much potential. And so we want to nurture that and be part of that process. Well, a lot of times that means that they have to be in a position where they don't need to command like an exorbitant amount of money at the same time that we're trying to develop them. You know what I mean?

So like a lot of times in the gym, you have to bleed before we want you to be like, you have to show you're really gonna be in alignment. So you have to do it be an intern. If you're so well established that you can't do that, and your ego can't take it, or your pocketbook can't take it because you have too many responsibilities in life, I totally understand that, it just doesn't necessarily make you. Not the right circumference. It's just not the right circumference, man.

So, and that's okay, you know. So let's just acknowledging, and so many different levels, all things all the time like oh because you know You get emotionally attached to me you see something somebody like I want them to be part of this Yeah, you know and and sometimes it's not gonna. It's not the right thing You know well shit man. You're you're pretty awesome guy. They've done a good job with you. Thanks, man I think you're very very very valuable to on it. And you've got a great story.

So I'm glad you came on the show. I think our audience will enjoy it. All I'm excited too. We're going to rip some good content with you too. It's a nice YouTube video. So we'll shoot some good videos. And I'm sure that this relationship will continue. I mean, we have on it stood out to us.

And it's really exciting to actually fight. I think every time we came down there, we missed you. You know, like every time we're there. Seriously. And everybody kept saying, you got to meet John. You're John, you're going to be John. You guys got to meet John. Like think every time we came down there, we missed you, you know? Like every time we're there. And every week I said, you gotta meet John, you're John, you're going to meet John. Like everyone kept telling us that, well, what the fuck is John at? John's never here.

Yeah, yeah, Blitz, so I remember one time you guys were at Paleo Facts and he's like, oh, we're gonna go do this, this collabo podcast with the Mindpunk guys. And then I was like, I was kind of in the hot, hot, you know, hot, you know, I was in the dog house or something. I was like, I was kind of in the hot, you know, hot, you know, I was in the dog house or something. I was like, gone too long all the time.

So I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna go and I call home. Like, nope, no, no, I'm not gonna go. He's also okay, we're gonna do it at like 11 PM. I'm like, oh yeah, definitely not gonna. You guys do these fucking podcast marathons when you're on the road, right? Oh, we go crazy. That might have been the episode

that Barbell Shrug lost. Yeah, it was, it was that one. It was mysterious. Very mysterious. It's season one, that one. Yeah, it's season all the time about that. Excellent, man. Well, dude, we'll definitely, for sure, be in touch.

I'm gonna look forward to the content that we're gonna produce right now today, and I'm glad we got a chance to finally introduce you to our audience, man. Yeah, thanks for having me on, guys. This has been a blast. Thanks for having me on. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance,

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