Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 765: Kyle Kingsbury- Fasting for Muscle Gain, the Benefits of Going Barefoot, the Future of Onnit, #MeToo & MORE

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Always, always a pleasure hanging out with our good friend who can't seem to keep his pants on when he sees us. No. I think he gets so excited that he just wants to be naked. Maybe he gets sweaty down there. I don't like a swap. I don't know, but I appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:00:31 He's got an amazing body, so I don't have any problems with it. Yeah, just let it out, buddy. But he loves to just get naked. And he did that. Was this Rainbow, uh, Jumis? Did you miss that? Did you miss that? I didn't see that.

Starting point is 00:00:43 Did he get the pool naked? Of course. Well, we are getting ready for the podcast right now. We were getting all set up and he come up to me and he says, can I get a towel? We'll click on my jump in the pool. I'm just sure. Okay. And Justin is sitting with Justin seeing

Starting point is 00:00:57 that can see the pool, the back of my back is the pool. And Justin goes like, this motherfucker just got naked. This is swimming in our pool, right? There's a naked man in our pool. Totally naked. Totally naked. He's so comfortable with himself. He's so free.

Starting point is 00:01:11 Did you see what he did at the convention to me? No. We're all hanging out talking and he leaves and he does a fucking ball tap. It's me right in the, right in the pills and just kind of laughs and stuff. That was the strange goodbye, I mentioned. Damn,. And I'm like, I was the strange goodbye. I'm bro.

Starting point is 00:01:26 I love Kyle. He's a great kid. He'll always have a great father, great husband, great friend. He's a good guy. Good human being, good human being. One of our favorite great. He is a good dude. And we always have a great conversation with him.

Starting point is 00:01:39 We never know where it's gonna go. We never discuss what topics we're going to address. I will come up. It's just like we're gonna give in. Yes, it is. And I do, I do. What did that was brief? You know, I give him a lot of questions.

Starting point is 00:01:49 It was, I always kind of I roll a little bit when we start there. I don't know if that's just a, it's a cool topic. It's a cool topic. It's passion. That's what I'm talking about. You don't mind talking that way. I'm like whatever about it. I'm over the conversation.

Starting point is 00:02:00 We've had it so much, but I know that's a common ground and an interest that I think we shared in the last couple of years. And so it's a common discussion. But I do like that we hit it, we move on from it and then we talk about a lot of the really good stuff in this episode. We get a conversation. It's always a good podcast when we have Kyle,

Starting point is 00:02:17 Kingsbury as a guest. And I mean, that was from day one when we first met him. So one of our favorite people in the world. Also look, this month we are giving away two nutrition type guides for free. We have the intuitive nutrition guide and we have the intermittent fasting guide. Both you can get for free if you enroll in any maps bundle.

Starting point is 00:02:41 Now bundles will take multiple maps for our grams, put them together and Discount them you can find these programs and more at mine pump media dot com now without any further ado Here we are interviewing the director of human optimization from on it Kyle Kingsbury is also the host of the on it podcast enjoy Bro, that's the sure that's the shirt right there. How long have you had that shirt? You wore that, the first, that was the first time, yeah, that was the first time you hung out with us. That's a tank, you wore that.

Starting point is 00:03:11 I think you might even came into MindPump Media and that unicorn shirt. No shit. I believe, I feel like it, I feel like it test that you do with people when you first meet them. It's like, if these motherfuckers are cool, they're gonna like that on barefoot and I have a unicorn on my shirt.

Starting point is 00:03:24 I get more compliments about this shirt. I had the same sweater the hoodie That's that's that's over there. Oh, yeah, and the hoodie and that's fucking they crush man. So I like that shit So I've yeah show the picture. We got another guy. So I found a shirt. I found this guy, right? He was dinosaur fucking shirt and he had this and this fucking rad cowboy hat on and so I And he had this fucking rad cowboy hat on and so I traded him a bottle of wine for his cowboy hat And I took his cowboy hat the rest of trip. Yeah, yeah, no, I was like look at this shirt. So rad but it remind me of your shirt So you what I see you have is that a glucose monitor on your arm? Yeah, it's a CGM Well, how long you had it? Just yesterday. Oh my life one. So this is a legit, this is a legit, like medical one planted there.

Starting point is 00:04:06 It is a legit, it's implanted in there. I feel it like when I get an overhead or if I'm driving, it's starting to go away, the feeling of actually wearing it. But how long do you keep that on, or do you have to change the adhesive? This will run, it'll stay on me for two weeks then I mail it back.

Starting point is 00:04:25 So unfortunately, like I was telling Justin earlier, I don't get shit in real time. And that's really the benefit of having that is if you look on your phone or whatever device to see exactly what's going on while it's going on. So how can we get the real time one? Well, they have it, it is real time, but they wouldn't give me the fucking little

Starting point is 00:04:42 data tester. Yeah, the one that goes with it exactly. Oh, interesting. So I think they, they're, they're trying to get as much data collected on this as they can. Sure. So it hooks up a bunch of people that are influencers and, uh, interesting. We'll see if they want you to food log and do all.

Starting point is 00:04:56 I was just going to say you probably have to keep a bunch of, I fucking haven't done that. Like six goddamn years. So I'm like, what? I'm just going to, I'm just going to, I'm just going to, I'm going to cheat. I'm'm like, I'm like, what? I was like, I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna cheat. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna cap the day. I'm gonna cap the day.

Starting point is 00:05:10 Like, hey, I drank this night, it was Kali FX weekend, and then I danced, so maybe there was some, maybe that's the Yoyo effect of my relationship. I was super stuff, right? And then, yeah, no, no, all the drugs. I don't know, that would be a fucking just as, can you see? Cause they're like, you know, don't need the drugs. I don't know, that would be a fucking just as cool as see.

Starting point is 00:05:25 Because they're like, you know, don't be super clean. You know, they want you to kind of play, have some cheat meals. Yeah, see what the fluctuations are. And it would be very interesting to see how chemicals interact with blood sugar, you know? You know, it's funny. I think depending on the chemical, know certain certain substances will probably lower I believe nitric oxide type boosters like like Viagra and stuff like that will definitely I believe a lower You know this cuz I fucking dropped in it was the first time my wife and I had ever done Viagra together

Starting point is 00:05:57 So what's that like do with the so so Viagra increases blood flow for both men and women a lot of people know this but women Also get kind of like an erection, like a man would. It just happens to her, whatever the forest. Well, her course of all of us as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's supposed to increase that blood flow, but did she notice anything from it?

Starting point is 00:06:18 It's a pleasure. Yeah, it's, I mean, with, I'll just put it on the wall there, we, I wouldn't call it candy flipping, because that's where you take them at similar times with LSD and Molly. We had LSD to start the night, and then we had some Molly later on in the night with two CB, two CB is one of the alphabet of me

Starting point is 00:06:35 instead of Sasha Shogun created. Okay. And it doesn't give you the push towards love, the way MDMA is, but it's, there's similarly constructed. Interesting. It's a phenyl group instead of a methyl group.D.A. is, but it's, they're similarly constructed. Interesting. It's a phenyl group instead of a methyl group. Okay. And it was our first time running those things together.

Starting point is 00:06:52 And certainly our first time with Viagra. And so it takes longer to come to climax for men and women in that situation. But you have a desire to work towards it. And that's exactly what Shogun says in his book on it. I think it's p-cal Final I'm gonna get I'm gonna fuck this up. Final Allenine. Final Fintel Allenines. I don't know if there's fucking druggies out there that are kicking out on this We you fucked it up. It's it's P something I've known and loved and It's it's all these amazing chemicals that he's created.

Starting point is 00:07:25 I think he created this in the 80s, like 1982 or 85. Interesting. And he said if the pharmaceutical industry ever comes up with an Afro-DGAC, that's prescription. It'll be based on this, just less psychedelic. So it has Afro-DGAC properties? Because I know when you read the literature on substances like MDMA, it's not, it's not like statistically or consistently an affidigiac, it's more of a like letting break in on the walls and people love each other all of the stuff. And they've never really identified like a real affidigiac for everybody.

Starting point is 00:07:57 And this one you're saying, that's what all the trip reports have been on it, you know, I haven't taken it. It's only the second time I've had it. So I don't really know. Is there like an in equals one standpoint, how that looks? Yeah. But it certainly, it was fucking awesome. We had amazing, amazing sex. And I'm happy she was able to get there a couple times, which is the goal of any session. So is there like a form of like people that you talk to about? Yeah, man. There's a lot on my arrowwood.org is one of the first like drug databases that I ever got a hold of and it's there's a ton of knowledge there. They have how do you

Starting point is 00:08:35 how do you do anything from chemical structure to legality based on where you are to trip reports and the trip reports are people's experiences right and right. And the people that write there, they're all fucking down. Like they're all trying to do the work. They're not just like, yeah, I fucking, I mean, they have, they have, that's reports. I mean, there's every drug known to man included there.

Starting point is 00:08:54 So you can see like a meth trip report what that looks like. But for the most part, when it comes to the psychedelics and things like that, it's people saying, this is what might, they have a scale. So like this is my CEV, close-eyed visual scale, this was my open-eyed visual scale, this is my feelings, you know, and they just fucking go through every possible experience you could have on it,

Starting point is 00:09:14 but it's very detailed. So you get a really... I love technology, the current state of it, because it's funny, with more information, people have treated these things. So I'm not like necessarily an advocate or not I'm an advocate for people doing what the fuck they want to them. So you're a fucking advocate. Yeah, well, I'm an advocate You know what do you know? I'm an advocate for people being able to do what they want with their body Freedom you own your body, but my point is you know, I love that the in the past more information They tried to they will try to clamp down on it or prevent it from happening Because they think it would encourage right you know dangerous behavior

Starting point is 00:09:49 But the the I don't know how people the nor they know the opposite is true You're actually getting people who are doing more responsible use and you you hear more of that now Where's in the past like oh, I did all this now? You're like no, no, don't take that much of this and go do it this way and because they're educating themselves Yeah, I mean what we generally do things. I mean, we're not afraid to go down the rabbit hole with substances we're familiar with, like psilocybin and things like that. You know, like we'll do the heroic dose of those things at home where it's controlled

Starting point is 00:10:19 environment, set and setting, yeah, in public, different scenario. So we truly did limp in with all the substances. We took a small amount of each, maybe not with the LSD, but definitely a small amount each. And then that was, that was cool. I mean, it was a beautiful experience top to bottom, you know, so. Is that a, is that a, a thriving culture in, in this town? Because I feel like it, I don't know if it's just because we, we're, we're hanging out

Starting point is 00:10:44 with, you know, we meet with you and stuff like that. So, yeah, I don't know if it's just because we're hanging out with, you know, we meet with you and stuff like that. I don't know if it's game-recognized game, or if it's, you know what I'm saying? I don't know if it could be like it tracks like, and I meet these people, and certainly being a part of the on a culture and with Aubrey, you know, we get to see a bit more of that. I've met, you know met quite a few awesome interesting people at the Rick Doblin fundraiser. They did, maps did for PTSD at Aubrey's house. But yeah, man.

Starting point is 00:11:12 It's a cool deal. You've interviewed a lot of great minds in that arena. Who's a go-to person that you would recommend? If someone's listening to you right now and they're kind of like, I want to hear more science or information on this. I would hear some mechanics. Dennis.

Starting point is 00:11:26 Dennis, he's dead. He's still dead. Okay. He's still dead, man. Still dead, man. Dennis is fucking amazing, man. I mean, a great place to dive in if you got three hours, listen, Dennis, Mackenna, and Joe Rogan.

Starting point is 00:11:40 And he really gives a great, you know, a lot of the science, but even more of that is just the respect he has for Iowoski, he's done it over a hundred times, and he says he still feels like a baby every time he does it. And that's something I love when there's that level of familiarity, but still that level of respect for what you're doing, because it does take, like you have to have a fucking level of respect

Starting point is 00:12:01 for what you're doing. Have you seen, because you're in this world, and you're probably viewed obviously, because, have you seen, because you're in this world and you're probably viewed, obviously, because your position is a bit of an authority on subjects like this and others. Do you have you seen people go down the road of abuse or have you seen anybody who's like, okay, you need to not do this?

Starting point is 00:12:18 Yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because I'm not. No, yeah, we have to play both sides carefully. The truth is, there's quite a few people that we have to play both sides carefully. You know, the truth is there's there's quite a few people that I've seen even in ayahuasca circles where where it's not easy. It's not like I'm going to fucking take LSD too often, which is super common. That's an easy one. Really? It's fucking euphoric. There's not a lot of work. You know, like, yeah, Jim Fathom talks about, you know, every fourth day, psychedelic explorers guide is an excellent resource for that because it takes your your body time to clear, right? So if you do it more often than every fourth day, which is still fairly

Starting point is 00:12:57 But if you were to do it faster than that your body down regularly, it's very quickly So then you know one hit you need two hits to get to one sure so on so forth but with when it comes to when it comes to Iowasca in particular I've seen people show up that they do the same it looks like they're in the same fucking spot mentally and emotionally every time I see that I just trying to escape well they're not they're not doing the work like you can get the fucking message but if you don't take that from the ethereal Spiritual place or whatever the fuck that is and ground that into reality by actually doing the homework You there's not much gains from it and doing that by doing the homework You mean like okay, I got this whatever the message is I don't explain that I got experience. I had done it three

Starting point is 00:13:44 three months in a row. Just a single ceremony, but three months in a row and every month for three months and the second time and the third time in a row, I kept getting the same, I kept being told the same thing and it was to meditate in yoga. And I was like, why are you fucking telling me this again? And the answer was, you haven't started meditation or yoga. That's why. Like those were my, then that's, you know, it's kind of like, what is it, the oracle in the matrix? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:15 Like, it's not the message for everyone. That's the message for you and you alone, right? And so a lot of people will get up and share with the group at the end and closing circle and they'll say, we need to stop using paper We need to stop stop wiping our ass with toilet. We were going through to me and they'll be corrected It's a I I need this right because it's that's the message for you You know what I'm saying so like people try to extrapolate everything out that they're given to

Starting point is 00:14:41 It's like nobody that's the message you know. You know what, that's what we all found. That's actually profound. I think a lot of people don't realize, because you'll feel moved by something, or you want to make a difference. And the first place a lot of people go is, I'm going to make this grand thing, change for everybody. Everybody needs to do this thing. But the change always starts with, within, with yourself.

Starting point is 00:15:02 In fact, that's the only thing you really have a lot of control over. And if everybody did that, we have what we wanted. If we just all focus on that, that sovereignty of ourselves. And that's the contribution, you know? Like whatever, if the goal is to change the world, it always starts with you. But it doesn't have to be like even among, for a long time, I wanted my sister in different family members to Iowaska.

Starting point is 00:15:24 And it was like, no, man, everyone walks their own walk. I had a shaman tell me this in Columbia. Everyone gets to walk their own path. And the work is for you to do and for you alone. And how I change and open my heart and give more love and share more knowledge, that's the gift I give to them. It's not having them fucking go to the Amazon with me. Now do you believe, because I know like some shaman will say there's them, it's not having them fucking go to the Amazon with me. Now, do you believe, because I know like some, some shaman will say there's two that it's

Starting point is 00:15:47 not necessary to do some of the Ayahuasca or drugs to get there and that some people have the capabilities to actually get that deep into meditation that they can receive these types of messages or get the same thing from it. So there's, there's, there's, I have a couple, a couple thoughts on that. One, there's no way... Iowasca's in his league of tone. It's like you can fucking... Right, because you're chemically doing something to work.

Starting point is 00:16:12 You can fucking do all the shit, and you can have visuals, you can have visions. I mean, I was in Sedona at Spirit Ranch doing shamanjelic breath work, similar to holotropic breath work by Santa Slov Grave. And I had fucking full blown visions just like I was using substances with no substance. It was powerful. So you can get there. There's no doubt about that. And I think people that have been meditating consistently

Starting point is 00:16:35 daily for, you know, decades on end. There's no doubt they're tapping in. But it's it's a totally different experience. And it's always funny. I mean, Paul Chex said this. It's like it's, it's a comical when people are, are are very fairy about their own path. You know, many, all, many paths lead up the mountain, right? So if anybody is telling you, this is the way you don't need that other. Sure. And that's because you haven't fucking had that. Right. It's not, you know, it's not for everyone, right? I'm not trying to say that, but at the same time, it's a whole different fucking animal. Yeah, I think it's like anything, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:08 everybody's so in this face of the mountain. Instead of the long road, right? That's like, there's lots of ways you get out of the mountain and you can take this fucking taunt of the mountain. You can take this thing out, or you can take in the gondola straight to the top. It reminds me of being on the right, the skis on the way up,

Starting point is 00:17:21 and you're like, there's the face of the mountain. Right, right. It's like, I gotta go as moguls. We're going straight up. You're like, there's the face of the mountain. Right. Right. It's like, I got to do all those muggles. We're going straight up. Yeah. Someone turned it up too fast. Ah. That's crazy, man. So do you, uh, do you ever wear shoes? I wear shoes every now and actually wore shoes here. I just took them off.

Starting point is 00:17:37 Yeah, you did. Because I saw you at Paleo and I'm, you're just straight up. Just walking around barefoot. Yeah, man. I'm walking the walk. Well, that's one of the few places that you could be a public like that. They probably totally accept the race. I can get away with it at Whole Foods here too. I really, I tried to test the water and they were fucking cool with it. And my son walks around barefoot everywhere too, so that was sweet.

Starting point is 00:17:55 Yeah, it's like a progression because I don't, do you always, have you been doing that for a long time? I think more so since I got to on it because it's my first real job. And then it's also at the same time like You're cool with it totally fucking chill or the culture of it. You're a fucking outfit, you know like why would I wear and that's the other thing at paleo effects and also at work It on it. It's all concrete slabs indoors. You're still grounding on concrete. Yeah, you know like if it was asphalt You're not grounding. It's kind of no point, you know, but I mean, on concrete, you're still grounding and you're not,

Starting point is 00:18:26 it's not the same as being in the fucking ocean where it's actually gonna shift quite a bit. Like that's why we feel the way we do when we're in the water. And I certainly miss that about North Carolina, but it does mitigate a lot of the EMF and fucking Wi-Fi and all the shit buzzing around at the office. Well, you'd be the guy to ask because you do all these things and you test them out on

Starting point is 00:18:47 yourself and I mean have you noticed that when you go barefoot all the time what do you notice? I mean there's a couple things one you're more mindful of where you fucking step so you can't just float through space. I mean and sometimes we live close enough to that. We live close enough to on it where I can walk home a lot of times. I don't do walking meditation or throwing, audible, and listen to a book on the walk home.

Starting point is 00:19:10 Because I no longer have a commute. And I used to love that about the Bay Area. People hate their fucking, their commute. But Aubrey talked about this in his book on the day. Mindfulness or mindfulness while you're driving. Because that could be, that's for a lot of people, the worst time of the day is the fucking morning and even commute right so Mindfulness would be practicing meditation while you're driving and not you know throw on easy listening

Starting point is 00:19:35 instrumental music where you're not Taking in or receiving fucking lyrics and things like that and just dropping your mindfulness practice while you're driving or Mindfulness you throw on audible you throw on a fucking enlightening podcast, and you get some information in that time, right? So because we're so close, it's, I mean, my wife will drop me off with bear, and that's like a 10 minute drive, tops, but getting to walk home, that's a nice 45 minute slow walk, and I'll walk barefoot, and there's fucking gravel, and I have to be mindful of poison ivy.

Starting point is 00:20:07 I mean, it's not easy on my feet and that's also something that's incredibly drawing into the present. I've fucking look at every fucking step I take. You know, I can't just... That's a very interesting point. I mean, think of that. It's like you're disconnected completely when you walk around with shoes all the time. So you don't even, you just walk around on numb on numb. Yeah, you can walk on a pebble and

Starting point is 00:20:29 it doesn't hurt whatsoever. Yeah, you feel it. Sneaker. Yeah. Your information, you know, you're receiving to your feet and your toes and everything else. Ever since we ever since we met brink, I just I started to really pay attention to people's function with their feet and you have incredible function with your feet. I mean, you don't have your feet aren't flat, you don't pronate, supine, everything seems pretty connected. Now, I would assume it's probably part of the one. How's that have your squats and, you know, like from that perspective?

Starting point is 00:20:53 I mean, everything's improved, especially deadlift. Squats have improved just from the technique of squatting better, but deadlifting for sure, because I know how to grip the ground with my feet now. Yeah. You know, and that's a big one for any type of hitch, hip hinge movement. You know, those are things that really have carry over very quickly. But especially with running like my gate, I thought I think I mentioned this probably on

Starting point is 00:21:15 one of the podcasts we've done. But when I ran the 50K at 238 pounds, with zero fucking injuries, that's for sure a credit to having been in five finger shoes and being barefoot often. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's a big dude to be running that much. Absolutely. How how is your training now? What is your workouts look like now? Because you look, you're always a you're always in good shape. You're pretty lean right now. Yeah, are you are you are you are you on gear now or something or are you just lifting? All gasped up.

Starting point is 00:21:46 No, it's funny. Something you guys had mentioned was the bounce back that you get after a fast. So I just done a five day water fast in Sedona when I finished it with some substances. But I was 222 when I went into the fast. And I like being around 220. I feel like that's the happiest.

Starting point is 00:22:06 That's your way. I'm strongest, but I'm also the most limber and mobile. And it translates well on the mats. I don't like being over 225. And what's crazy is after the fast, because it was like, how much muscle did you lose? How much strength did you lose? And it's like, bitch, all that shit comes back so quick.

Starting point is 00:22:24 And then some. And then some. And then some. So I'm fuck, I gained eight fucking pounds after the fast. I was so hungry and still eating keto, the whole way and gained eight pounds. That's what I've been telling these guys. So crazy. So I've put on about maybe eight pounds of lean body mass.

Starting point is 00:22:40 Now I did change my workout, but I also started fasting for about 48 to 72 hours every month. So at the beginning of every month, I start off that way. And it wasn't for muscle gain, it wasn't for fat loss, I was doing it for gut health, and then after the first or second time, I'm like, oh shit, I like the spiritual effects of it. In fact, I can disconnect from food for a few days, and I really get just good spiritual and mental work from it.

Starting point is 00:23:05 A ton of downloads. But then the side effect of it, which was tripping me out, is maybe because my gut is so much healthier, so I'm just assimilating food better, but I'm just building muscle like 10 years ago. To me, it makes the most sense like that. It seems like you're ringing your system out, right? You're like a sponge squeezing everything out because you're fast, and everything gets sucked out of your system.

Starting point is 00:23:24 Then it's just primed to absorb everything properly. It's no different than taking a day off working out or something. Right, right. And we live in this like oversaturated society, right? We're constantly feeding our faces. We never take more than what's five hours from a break from the next meal. So it's like, you can't tell me that we have a desensitize our entire body and our receptive. That'll piss off a lot of people fast for muscle gain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:49 That goes against the grain. It does for sure. But on that note, I don't train nearly as often as I used to. I kind of fucked my knee up the last time I did it too hard. I may end up having to take a look with an MRI. Oh, shit. It would happen to you, he'll hook her. Yeah, well similar, it was a knee bar that was off to the side.

Starting point is 00:24:11 And so, and I came and do it on the leg, my left knee, where it's fucked up. You feel like your medial leg in my bladder? Yeah, all that through there. It didn't pop or anything like that, and the thing is, you just do so humbling regardless. But the fact that I tried to fight that position, that was where I look back on that like. Why do you think you tried to fight it?

Starting point is 00:24:29 Was it a lower ranked person? He's much smaller than me. And it didn't hurt. So I didn't wanna give him the tap, whereas if I ever get put in that position again, it's like a heel hook, you should tap. Yeah, when they have the position, yeah. It's there, dude, you got it.

Starting point is 00:24:44 Oh, fuck yeah. Let's go back to the next thing. I'll get you next time, that kind of thing. And so the fact that I fought it for so long, I still finished rolling. That would happen early on, you know, and I still finished the whole practice and felt fine. And then later that night, like it was hard to walk.

Starting point is 00:24:59 And then for a month, it was hard to walk. Yeah, wow. And then it finally got better. And I was doing yoga with my wife at home, and it fucking popped twice in the most candy ass yoga class. And it was brutal, man. So now I'm just like, well, maybe I take a look at it later, and I don't know, but I'm gonna nurse this thing

Starting point is 00:25:19 and just give it time. And I can still hinge and work with kettlebells, so I'm doing a lot of stuff. If you can do some peptides or anything in that? I'm thinking BPC157. So I know nothing about this, except for what Ben Greenfield was telling me about it. Greenfield did an amazing ride up on it,

Starting point is 00:25:33 and sounds like a cool robot. BPC7. BPC157. BPC. BPC. Yeah, that and TB500 are really good at. That's another one. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man TB 500 are really good

Starting point is 00:25:50 They're really good at healing injuries and I'm not too familiar with TB 500 but BPC 157 is the same Amino acid structure is gastric juice in the gut isn't that the one where they did the studies the rats and they gave it to them and it cured their they would Thircones or whatever fucked up shit Yeah, yeah, it's amazing for gut health. Heels in intestinal lining, but they would sever the Achilles on a fucking rat and see how fast it took to reconnect and grow. And so with BBC 157, you can use it locally right there at the sorcery. It's systemic.

Starting point is 00:26:18 It's subcutaneous and systemic and they saw like really rapid healing. So it's one of the things where it up regulates a college and uptake, and then that can help repair 10 and a ligament damage. Now is this gray market, black market, what is it? It's gray market, you know, these things are, their peptides are things that you'd order online that are not for human consumption,

Starting point is 00:26:40 for research purposes only. You know, like if you actually had, like everyone ordering this shit has rats at their house, they're gonna fucking experiment. You know what's funny? You know what's funny? So after meeting with Ben, I did a little bit of research, just a tiny bit.

Starting point is 00:26:51 So I don't know a whole lot, but I would read these forums, and when people ask questions about it, they don't, they talk about it as if they have a rat. So my rat pulled as a keelie. Is my rat right there? Yeah. In this case, what do you think I should do?

Starting point is 00:27:04 And I'm like, are you fuckers?. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding.

Starting point is 00:27:12 I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding.

Starting point is 00:27:20 I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I the fuck dude, I'm nervous about putting anything in my knee, you know With insulin pen or not, you know, so I might just go sub-Q in the knee. I might just go in the gut We'll see we'll see how hard is it get a hold of that stuff online? Do you have to reconstitute it and all that shit? So what does it come as powder? Yeah? Liff lif-lifelizedf- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- lif- li to Big Text Gym. Have you been there? Okay, so our good buddy, Ben, Pollock works out there,

Starting point is 00:28:07 and we walk in, and it's like old school, like iron dungeons. Put up our shut up. Like you go in there, and you're like, we were hung over, then that before everybody got out and drank, we walk in, we're not working out, we're just gonna film some stuff with Ben, and we all ended up working out because of the vibe in there, but the thing that I was commenting on, in fact, I had a conversation with Adam about this,

Starting point is 00:28:28 we've been in gyms forever. And you go into these big corporate gyms or these bodybuilder gyms, and there's an interesting vibe. People are trying to show off, or, nobody's really cool, or whatever. It's intimidating, especially if you don't work out. Guys, there's three inches in front of the mirror doing curls.

Starting point is 00:28:45 Yeah, you know, if you're a new person, you would definitely not feel welcome, right? This place, Iron Dungeon, Choc, rust on some of the plates, fucking death metal playing. And everybody's like, super cool, super. Like if you were a beginner and you walked in there, you'd have like top level power lifters and strength athletes helping you out.

Starting point is 00:29:06 You know, it's like super cool environment. We're talking about this. I'm like, you know, it's funny that there's this interesting, you know, stereotype where those are the intimidating gems, right? But the reality is those are the ones where you'll get the most help and everybody's gonna be the most cool.

Starting point is 00:29:18 Oh, the big girls are the nicest. The nicest and, you know, we were speculating. I'm like, you know what it is. I'm like, it's because you get your ego checked in a gym like this a lot. Like you walk into a bodybuilder gym and you know, you're not going to get buried under a squat. You're not doing, you walk into a bodybuilder gym and it's subjective. Yeah, it's about look. Yep, yep.

Starting point is 00:29:34 And it's like, you know, my biceps look bigger than yours and my chest. Right. And there's no, we could debate it back and forth on who looks better. So, like that. Right. And so, Jiu-Jitsu is like that. The symmetry's off, bro. Yeah, exactly. But I was telling him, Jiu-Jitsu is kind of like that.

Starting point is 00:29:46 Like, if you go into Jiu-Jitsu school and you've got a big ol' ego and you think you're a bad-ass, you're gonna get humbled. Everybody gets humbled in Jiu-Jitsu. So everybody seems to be super chill and cool. And a lot of times you get humbled by a guy smaller than you, which is very humbling, you know?

Starting point is 00:30:01 100%. It's that whole vibe of, you know, where you go in and I think that's probably one of the biggest things I learned from Jiu-Jitsu and it's just, what is your, you're still trained quite a bit? Yeah, you know, it's, I competed, it was a solo match. Wait, recently? Eight minutes rounds.

Starting point is 00:30:20 No, it was at one eight minute round submission only at the on an invitation seven last November. Oh, okay. And I wasn't in shape for that. I was traveling. I went on an L. Cunt Right in the last week of my hard training So and I wasn't getting hard training on the L. Cunt and I was put in mileage, but it's not the same, you know and showed up for that and I lost Really do the cardio so I was like all right, fuck man. That's the that's the That's the last time I will ever lose because of cardio if I choose to compete You know, I have this idea that when I retired from fighting I don't like doing high intensity intervals I don't like training in that way, but it's like if I'm gonna fucking compete again

Starting point is 00:30:56 Whether there's money on the line or not. It doesn't matter from not getting paid to do it. I need to show up, right? Oh, you're a competitor, yeah, yeah, if I'm gonna compete. And so, I had some time off after that match and then was getting back into it. And we actually had Rob Wilson out from Art of Breath. They did an Art of Breath seminar at on it. And it was fucking amazing. And I just felt so good. And he's getting into Gidduc too with Brian McKenzie.

Starting point is 00:31:19 So we jumped in class together and this was the day I got hurt. But in that day, I felt so much better, I felt like my cardio was better than when I had competed. And it had been four months since I had put in a full practice. What was that from the breath stuff that he was teaching? Yeah, the breath stuff, but also having put in more high intensity intervals in between that, right? So, I mean, I truly enjoyed Jiu-J, something it'll be a lifelong practice and I want my children to do it and What do you feel like it gives you?

Starting point is 00:31:49 It's one of those things where and I was I was speaking on a panel which I Didn't really want to be on it was the death of the American male and there was three women and three guys and I was like this Could they put you on there all bad? Yeah, dude, and it turned out to be actually You're the perfect It was it was beautiful, but you know, I've already hit me up the day before is like dude You're speaking on this fucked up panel man This is a PR nightmare I was gonna lay in bed awake anyways

Starting point is 00:32:21 Thank you, but um yeah, it went great But one of the things I was trying to focus on was like look we can talk about all the reasons we got here that awake anyways. We're nervous. We're nervous. Thank you. But yeah, it went great. But one of the things I was trying to focus on was like, look, we can talk about all the reasons we got here. But let's focus on how do we, how do we archetype that? How do we construct that archetype of a model, male, American or not? And so I think there are things that we can, anytime, and this is the same with cold therapy, but when you can put yourself in the face of danger and fear in a fucked up situation that's not fun, and you can

Starting point is 00:32:50 stay calm in the storm, that fucking extrapolates out to everything else in line. It has carryover to everything you do. And that's, I mean, in the cold, you can't get in there and start fucking huffing and puffing and whim off breathing in the cold. You can do that before and after, but not in the tank. You have to slow everything down, and dip into parasympathetic. And so that translates back out the body remembers. So the next time you get cut in traffic, if you take that deep slow breath, the body remembers it shifts back into parasympathetic, you're not in fight or flight anymore. And so I feel that from Jiu-Jitsu.

Starting point is 00:33:25 I feel that my baseline stress levels from work, from family life, from being a dad, all that chicken's dumbed down, it's quieted when I'm on the mat's moron. Is it rare to see like a hothead that does Jiu-Jitsu? I, you know, early on, I knew a guy that was kind of a hothead in the dick. They're pretty rare. They don last they don't they get either super hurt a lot or they just leave because our ego can't take it Well, people will stop rolling with them too, you know like I would avoid that guy

Starting point is 00:33:55 I'd be like, you know, I'm gonna sit this one out or I'm gonna I got this guy you keep pulling yeah, and I would just you know those guys kind of want you know They hunt for the bigger dudes or guys that are fighters or whatever So I mean, there's targets wherever you go, but at the same time it's like I'll fucking pick guys ahead of time, you know like my next two rounds and then the next two rounds and just keep doing shit like that to avoid those people But yeah, I don't I think they they if they stick around long enough they learn Mm-hmm if they don't stick around long enough, they learn. If they don't stick around long enough, then they never learn. Well, you think about the progression of,

Starting point is 00:34:28 because I haven't did Jiu Jitsu for, it's been at least 10 years, and it's like the fucking sport has changed so much since I stopped training. It's like it's exploded, yeah. Well, I mean, it's growing like crazy. And partially, I think it's podcasting. A lot of podcasters do Jiu Jitsu,

Starting point is 00:34:40 and that new media is just spreading everything. Well, Oprah Winfrey has been fucking talking about. No, Joe Rogan is, Oprah, that's not the first time. Casters did you get to and that new media is just spreading everything well Oprah Winfrey has been fucking talking about no Joe Rogan is Dr. Ops That mean on belly. Yeah, well the Oprah Winfrey of podcast, fucking drops Jiu-Jitsu and like, you know, talks about it, no, it's not, I think. But it's evolved so much now where you're talking about

Starting point is 00:35:10 leg locks and stuff like that. When I was training, it was, you did them, but it was still frowned upon. And now you're seeing like leg locks have taken on a whole new fucking game, man. It's really evolved. And I got my black belt a couple years ago and it was a different system with checkmate and then I fucking love that system.

Starting point is 00:35:30 Those are my guys. I'll always be a checkmate black belt and come into Austin and working on it. They have a 10th planet studio there. So it's like I'm not going to go find the checkmate in town. I only train when I'm at work, which is a sweet deal that Aubrey allows that to happen. Like while you're on the You have a very sweet I can walk, and I know we talk about this every time we see you, but you have a cry

Starting point is 00:35:51 You have created the life yourself. I'm sure there's people that are listening because we did go right into psychedelic talk right away That like probably turn their minds off. I'll tell you what something about you that you cannot deny is you have definitely Created for yourself. A very... Kyle is a closer. Looks like the secret was right the whole time, guys. The secret was right. We're not there.

Starting point is 00:36:12 We're not there. We're not there. We're not there. We're not there. We're not there. We're not there. We're not there. Oh man.

Starting point is 00:36:20 But, uh, yeah, man, I walked 20 yards from my, from my cubicle to the jujitsu mats, you know. Which is the cubicle that you're never in because you're normally laying outside. I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing fucking, I'm doing outside. I'm doing fucking main G or just... Yeah, I get trolled all the time, but the girls in the office, they're like optimizing, and I've got fucking little LED goggles on

Starting point is 00:36:31 while I'm doing deep meditation. Just literally laying on the floor on the fucking concrete under my desk. I'm just fucking throwing it on the IG. But yeah, Jiu Jitsu's been great, and getting back to learning this new system, like it's aplanet Jiu Jitsu is one of Eddie Bravo's schools. Yeah. And he's a fucking Jiu Jitsu wizard.

Starting point is 00:36:51 He's just a nerd. He geeks out on it. And a lot of people give him shit for making a name for every single position and every single move and it's cool though. It's cool to see like, hey, all right, I'm in truck position and there's fucking all these different finishes from here and all these different transitions from here So it's learning it's like learning a second language. Oh, I love it. It's so speaking it's so I love all the innovators I love it when people come in and when I was training 10 years ago

Starting point is 00:37:16 I would go on YouTube and look up catch wrestling and looking up all the positions of catch right which now you see a lot of them But back then I would you know throw a you know a net crank on someone and they'd be like, what the fuck was that? Would you get that like YouTube? Yeah, I'm a mad friend, you know, whatever. Yeah, Eric Paulson, Josh Barnett, lots of good shit there. Dean Lister started with catch wrestling. Yes, yes. Dean Lister is actually the reason why leg locks have taken off. He was the first dude to fuck one of the people. He's a leglock master but his time in New York at Hanzo's and Danahers, Danahers, one of those nerds. And he would just take fucking notes religiously. I think at the time, Danaher talked about the son Robins, but I think at the time, Lister was a purple belt. And he was just so legit on the legs, Danaher realized like,

Starting point is 00:38:03 there's a lot to this. And so all of his guys, like they're the leg locky now crew, you know, and they're, that's Gary Tonin, and I know you guys have had him on Eddie Wolverine Cummins, and Gordon Ryan, who's just fucking blown up on the scene, and they're all just really, that's the fucking lineage. And that's one of those cool things, is like, just as young enough, where you can look back and say like who you got your black belt from who they got There's from they got there so like you can watch the fucking family tree and

Starting point is 00:38:32 It's pretty rad to see that system because as people develop different parts of the game that accelerates until everyone Rises up to that level and then a different part of the game come down people figure it out So like you'll see like a new move or position. This is what I love. And then you'll see, oh shit, this guy's killing everybody with this, whatever. And then before you know it, everybody's figured it out and they move on to something else. You know, you guys had a huge presence this year at Paleo.

Starting point is 00:38:54 I noticed that with just everything. Yeah, the Jiu-Jitsu tournament going on outside and then you guys had a booth. Yeah, I noticed bulletproof wasn't there this year and there was a couple other booths. Was it smaller this year? Overall. No, I think it's bigger this year

Starting point is 00:39:06 Okay, remember last year they had the jujutsumats inside so the middle area where there's a workout stuff That was fucking huge last year. That's right with the jujutsumats outside for the tournament That whole workout area is smaller and they still filled in way more vendors than they had last year But yeah, you know tape Fletcher didn't come back this year with Kayman Coffee. There was a few people that dropped out, but a lot of new people showed up. So... Why do you think people dropping out is anything, or is it just because? I have some ideas, but you know, I gotta be politically correct.

Starting point is 00:39:37 Got it. I'm not sure. It is growing. What are people saying? The other people say? Other people street Tell us Fuck you guys We're the rats taking well, we were to you know like we were It it to me. I thought it seemed more organized so therefore I think people thought it was smaller

Starting point is 00:40:01 So I think they're they got they had So I think they had more people on staff. And I know that was a complaint. We have buddies that didn't show up this year and some of that will remain nameless. And I know the knock that they kind of had was, oh, it wasn't as, you know, they're just not as organized. But I felt this year they had stepped up the organization. I felt that it was bigger, there was a bigger staff,

Starting point is 00:40:21 more people help out. I was fucking completely taken care. Obviously my experience this year was world different from my experience last year Oh, yeah, you know, I've thought I've spoken about that a lot how funny it was you know like walking around With you guys and cells like hey man, you got to you got to meet my buddy Kyle You know it is like oh you guys are mind pump They fucking give you like instead of the sample bag. They give you like a giant box or whatever the fuck they sell And then like do you guys sponsor podcasts?

Starting point is 00:40:46 Like, oh yes, here's the CEO's fucking business card. And yes, we'd love to be on your show. That was just a year ago. I was just a year ago. You know, and then it's challenging this year. And then like, hey, my buddy's starting a podcast. And like, oh, how many episodes do you have?

Starting point is 00:41:00 And I was like, oh, I've recorded seven, but I haven't released one yet. Like, oh, you're starting a five-past. I felt fucking infinitely small. And now you're the big dick walk around in that room. Swing in that day. How fucking over here. Tell me how awesome that feeling is.

Starting point is 00:41:14 When you walk in and you're like, hey, you remember me from last year, mother fucker? Yeah. It wasn't like that, but it was cool. It was cool. I like the schedule a lot. I think Michelle Norris for that. all my talks were on Friday on the first What talks did you do you did the one on the man a panel the death of the American male with John Durant that go while by the way It's really no it's not it really did go well

Starting point is 00:41:36 Well, I mean they looked into the me two movement things like that and really like is that Empowering for women or is it disempowering? You know can we talk about that a little bit? Because I know a lot about it. I hear it all in all of them. And I'll have to be careful with my words here because ultimately it's not a huge win to be correct in that, right? No.

Starting point is 00:41:55 But I do have thoughts on it. And the truth is, it's nice to, anytime we can raise awareness to things for, it's important. But at the same time, it can draw us into a culture of blame and us versus them, right? And I compare it to the political climate. What do we see now?

Starting point is 00:42:11 The right is extremely right. The left is extremely far left. And that gap has widened and widened. And over time, it will fucking collapse back in on itself. And we will have a true centrist movement where people do see the positives of both sides. Like, you know, I wanna fucking have control over my body. I think I should be able to do psychedelics

Starting point is 00:42:31 and maybe it's not a bad idea that I can own a gun. Right. Or whatever the fuck, fill in the fucking blank. Just not at the same time. Yeah. That's the same. That's the same. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:42:40 You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, but that's this thing, like we can actually see it. I mean, if we really pay attention Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha is a crisis of masculinity, but it's not what some people are saying where there's too much of it or it's toxic, it's the opposite. So what is the definition of that's me too though? The issue here, we'll jump into me too, but the issue of masculinity is, why is it the death of the American male? So you can get into that. What does real masculinity look like? Well, I don't know that we should call the death of the American male because I can't look back

Starting point is 00:43:26 on America and say, we should have, like what is it, fucking 1950s man that we're trying to emulate? No, that's not going to say anything. We're saying to the slave owners initially, like, yeah, they're great thinkers, they own slaves. So like, there's there's fucking, there's pros and cons to every fucking male that's ever been in America.

Starting point is 00:43:40 If we take it back to tribal settings and things like that, I think there's a lot of benefit we can see there. Even in matriarchies, not just the patriarchy, right? But this comes from we've been in a patriarchy for so long and we're seeing the ramifications of that and Yeah, maybe right and so there's an excellent book that I recommend people read It's called iron John by Robert Bly and he breaks down the poem of iron John Yeah, but he'll he'll say the, and then he'll stop out of the poem to break down all the mythology and everything.

Starting point is 00:44:08 He'll fucking put it in layman's terms for people. Yeah, no, no, it's, here's the thing. When they say the death of the American male, what they're talking about is not how American men were in the 1950s or 40s or 30s, they're talking about the romanticized version of what the American man was. When you look at the old ads of the dude with the suit and he's got like,

Starting point is 00:44:28 he's out fun, he takes care of his family, he's really responsible, and he's honest. And that's what I heard. The kids listen to him. Yeah, that's what they're referring to, which is, you know, but I think what we're saying now is definitely a crisis of masculinity in the sense that record levels men are leaving their women with their children. That alone is a major, like people don't realize how big of an impact that has on a society where children are being raised without fathers, where the dads just fucking piece I'm

Starting point is 00:44:54 out of here and they refuse. Here's what masculinity is, it's responsibility. And you can say that about feminine in you too, but you have a lot of, because we don't have a biological clock, that's one of the reasons why we get away with this, like, I'm a 35 year old fucking child, and I'm partying every day, and I don't really care about responsibility, and who cares?

Starting point is 00:45:11 I don't need to worry about all those other things, because I can just take care of myself. Women have a different, they have a different pressure on them, because they, you know, they're biological clock. And so, you see a lot of guys, just not fucking taking responsibility, and that's the crisis that I think we're talking about

Starting point is 00:45:25 And that could that comes from not being heard, you know, so there there's a thing where Women want to have a voice. It is that where the meat is that was fucking you should know me too is literally the I was I was growing on I was growing up. I was fucking it's the sexual issues that were going on in a Hollywood largely Harvey Weinstein, shit. So, and that movement does shed light. And there's a lot of men that came in Terry Cruz, fucking threw up Hashtag me to, fucking hit on by his agent. Said he was getting a followed around in traffic and all sorts of weird shit.

Starting point is 00:45:58 I mean, it goes deep in Hollywood, but again, is that empowering to do that? I think it creates division. And at the same time, if you don't take ownership over ourselves, it's disempowering. And that's not to say that they were asking for it or they knew what they were doing. It's nothing to say with that. And John Durant had a great point.

Starting point is 00:46:19 He's like, look, Harvey Weinstein's a fucking scumbag. He had what's coming to him. There's no two ways about that. But if you're telling me that you're gonna go to his house for dinner at night solo and not think anything else is on the table, that's just, I mean, are you a child? Should we take, you know, absolve you

Starting point is 00:46:38 of all responsibility and action? That's what a child is, right? So you have to take some ownership of that. And he was like at 9.30 at night, do you think it's an issue at 1am? Do you think it's an issue at 3am? And these are literally the times they were showing up at the house. So like you have to take some ownership of that, at least it's a possibility, right? And there's there's... Well a lot of what people need to realize and it sucks because taking responsibility is so difficult but yet it's actually not as difficult as being a victim. Being a victim is actually far more difficult to take responsibility and people need to understand.

Starting point is 00:47:12 I'll give you a great easy example that nobody will disagree with. It's like when people complain about like people will be like, oh, why are they Kardashian so famous? They're so dumb. Like why are they fuck? Who cares? And it's like, uh, we're the ones buying the stupid magazine covers and talking about them and talking about that's the responsibility That I'm talking about is like we have the power if we want to shut that down if Weinstein if they wanted to shut him down They could have people can they could have done that right and there were so much in his movie stuff talking about Or just or just not giving him business like there were rumors have been going around for a long time about him.

Starting point is 00:47:47 In fact, you can watch old videos where people would joke about it in interviews, like, oh, make sure you don't go to Weinstein's house and they'd all, ha, ha, ha, ha. Everybody knew, but nobody wanted to stop it, or nobody wanted to stand up. And it's like, we have the power. We have the power to control these things a lot of times. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:01 I think there's, I don't know. And again, we get go back it is touchy. We could go back and forth on all the reasons and all the this and all the that, but ultimately I tried to focus on what are the take homes? Like, how do we reconstruct that? And I think single sports is a big one, especially for young males with the whole, everyone gets a fucking participation award and everyone will get equal playing time. You know, my sports are being destroyed right now. My dot is playing basketball, she's eight years old.

Starting point is 00:48:27 They don't keep score. Yeah, yes, exactly. They don't keep score. Exactly, you back some, sorry, hold on a second, let me correct myself. The adults don't keep score, guess who keeps score? The kids, no. My daughter will come out and be like,

Starting point is 00:48:38 Kids, give a fuck, they do. They give a fuck, rightfully so. You want to play to win. Yeah. And that's why I think single sports will rise, wrestling will rise, judicial rise, because they're incredibly important for fucking kids that go through that

Starting point is 00:48:52 to know what loss feels like, to how to deal with that, to learn. That's one of the things Jordan Peterson talks about is like are we creating this fucking safety bubble, this safe place for kids, all the way through fucking college and university where when they make it out in the real world, they're the way through fucking college and university where when they make it out in the real world, they're not prepared.

Starting point is 00:49:07 For fucking real life. They're not prepared for the world. They're not any adversity. They've had no, it's cutthroat, man. It's sink or swim, you know? And so how do we prepare people for that? You know, men and women, but especially young men. My favorite quote is, you know, you don't want to make

Starting point is 00:49:24 your kids safe, you want to make them strong. Because know, you don't want to make your kids safe, you want to make them strong. Not because you don't want to make your kids safe, but because you can't completely make your kids safe. Unless you lock them in a box. It's can't control it. Which that's terrible, you would never want to do that. So you'd want to make them strong

Starting point is 00:49:35 so they could deal with, you know, what happens in the real adversity. Like I'm not going to be able to completely, it would be impossible for me to never have my kids be introduced or around, let's say hard drugs or stuff like that. Like let's say I'm a parent, I'm like, I never want my kids around drugs. At some point they may be exposed to these things, so I want to equip them with the confidence

Starting point is 00:49:56 and the in themselves to be able to make the right decision for themselves. That's the best thing you can possibly do. Not to like, let me cover you in protect you all the time. It's impossible. I don't know. What are you gonna do with that? So, did you, either that talk or did you see any of the talks, was there ever any controversy?

Starting point is 00:50:12 Or did it, was there any good heated debates that went on this weekend? No, no, not that I know of. And that talk went surprisingly well. You know, and then I had a solo talk on cognitive optimization, which was awesome. I thought they were gonna have me often some fucking obscure room with like five people. I saw the video of that.

Starting point is 00:50:28 Yeah, it was dope, man. It grew up on the stage. There was maybe five open seats. There were people standing watching. It went really well. What'd you talk about? Cognitive optimization. It's just different like things to do.

Starting point is 00:50:38 Well, what I wanted, my, I guess the synopsis was, how do, how does everything affect the brain? You know, we usually think like if I wanna optimize cognitive function, I'll take a neutropic, I guess the synopsis was how do everything affect the brain? We usually think, like, if I want to optimize cognitive function, I'll take a new tropic, I'll take coffee, those kind of things, but really tying together what posture and movement does for blood flow to the brain. Diving into diet, even if you're not going to go keto, understanding which carbohydrates

Starting point is 00:51:01 are right for you, how that affects insulin response, everything from inflammation to the fucking, hitting the wall when you're in the afternoon, like everybody talks about brain fog, and fucking five hour energy has a commercial all about this shit, right? And it's like, you can either take this shitty supplement or you can pay attention to the food that you put in your body, how much that impacts the brain, cognitive function, and just cellular energy at the mitochondrial level, right? So taking a deeper dive into that bio-axleic trans-direct cranial stem to how we can influence through brain weight of entrainment, you know, with things like that.

Starting point is 00:51:35 Now, did you prepare for this with like slides and shit? No, man, it's funny because the the the lady I came up after had like this beautiful presentation with slides and shit and I made a joke about it, about it. They just give you a little earpiece. You can walk around and I was like, yeah, I was even going to have handouts with a lot of the science that supported it. Because thankfully, we've got Dr. Vince Kripke is a PhD at on it. Now, I just had him for the last month peeling through research to back up everything I was going to say.

Starting point is 00:52:00 There's a lot of people look at, especially with you guys, you know, like, you're a bro. Yeah. Fucking have a body. Like, especially with you guys, you know, like, you're a bro, you're fucking have a body. Like, what are you fucking gonna tell me, you know? I got a bear. I got a bear. Yeah, a little self-deprecating. I'm like, I'm not a doctor. That was the first thing I said, you know,

Starting point is 00:52:14 and people kind of chuckled and, uh, I don't know what to do. But yeah, you know, I have a reason to learn this stuff. Having been punched in the face many times, playing football since I was 10, you know, like I really wanted to take the deep dive into all the ways I could optimize my brain and help heal the brain because I certainly have been put through the ringer. And now, of all the things that you do with your position and stuff, which ones make you

Starting point is 00:52:37 the most? Because you're speaking in front of a crowd. Now, you don't ever come across as somebody who's nervous, but do you ever get nervous? Do you ever get anxious? Like, what's the most difficult part of what you do? Well, I mean I've spoken in front of large crowds many times, especially doing tours for the troops, we would do three or four different bases in a day sometimes, and I'd speak in front of pretty large crowds. And were you nervous back then? I mean was there ever a time that you were nervous? No, I've always felt like I had the

Starting point is 00:53:03 gift of gab like public speaking was never a fear of mine and it always cracked me up. How, I mean, like what, I would feel, you know, like if you ever watch a comedian bomb on stage, like those fucking mere neurons, they're kicking in. Oh my God, fuck, I feel so, dude. People want to hackle and I just feel terrible for them. And I feel that way when I see somebody get up

Starting point is 00:53:24 and speak nervously, like you can see the panic or the fear. And it's like, I got to fucking take a deep breath for them. You know what I'm saying? But I've never had that issue. And oddly enough, I got nervous for the death of the American male because it, you know, always text the night before the topic. And the fact that it's equal parts women and men, like I didn't know the way they were gonna take it. And surprisingly they had great takes that were not pro male but pro fucking human. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:51 And that was a beautiful thing. It made it easy. But what was cool, and I was telling John Durant that was like, that was the hardest talk I had and to get that over with first, made everything else a fucking cake box. So when I went up solo, it was like, I fucking know this shit.

Starting point is 00:54:05 Let's crush it. And, you know, they're up there and they'll give you like the 10, you know, 10 fingers when you have 10 minutes left and they hold up a little side of five and then one and then game over. And I wanted to split the talk to 50% Q and A, but I barely got through everything with no Q and A.

Starting point is 00:54:22 So I just told everybody, she was holding, like, shaking the game over, sign at me to get the fuck off stage. I was like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was like, I didn't get to touch on my credo so I didn't get to touch on this.

Starting point is 00:54:33 Please see me over here. I'll make sure to answer everyone's questions. And so, like, fucking at least half the crowd stayed after to come up and shake my hand and meet me. That's right. It was dope, man. It was really cool. And then the final panel we had was on biohacking,

Starting point is 00:54:48 and that was a Ben Greenfield, and two other guys that I hadn't met before that were just as fascinating, because we're buddies with Ben, and I followed him religiously. I've learned half the shit I know on biohacking from Ben. So it was really cool to get different perspectives from the other two guys that were Biohackers in different ways, you know? Bro, what a trip. You were on a panel with Ben who I know as somebody you followed for a long time before and looked up to you.

Starting point is 00:55:13 That must be awesome. That's fucking weird. Yeah, Mercola was supposed to be on that panel too. Now a guy that I've really fucking, you know, really learned a lot from. What's been the biggest learning curve for you doing all this? What's been the most difficult of it? With getting... And with all of it. To speak or just be all of it. Even we're gonna honest. I wanted to get into on it with you guys.

Starting point is 00:55:32 It's kind of neat. I totally forgot it was just a year ago when we literally would come down. That was the beginning of your relationship with Aubrey and on it and going off with that. So it's now been cranking away at that position for quite some time. I always see the on it podcast up in the top now

Starting point is 00:55:46 I mean, I know it must be performing well and so what is on it been like for you? And what's what's in the future there? What's happened over the last year kind of recapped that for us? Fuck I think you know the hardest part was the transition because you know Getting fired while I'm on the airplane like literally in the airport to fly to on it for an interview, getting fired with no severance. That was where it was like, fuck man. So when I got to on it, it was hit the ground running. I was fucking using Modaphanil way too often

Starting point is 00:56:19 and slamming a half a pot of coffee each day. And I was so jacked to the gills of trying to perform and Prove my worth and and just work work work work work work that I wasn't taking any time for myself You know, there was no working in as as Paul check puts it and really finding that balance I it was when I was sent me to Sedona with with my wife Where I really got to unplug because you go through a detox there and there's no caffeine and shit like that. And I had fucking pretty bad caffeine withdrawals. And but meditating there, I realized like fuck, I have not, I would schedule meditation

Starting point is 00:56:54 and shit like that on just, you know, even just caffeine, like too much caffeine. And whatever that baseline is, where you drop in a deep meditation and you're inflow, I could never get there because my baseline of it rose so fucking high. Like how am I going to drop back down anywhere even close to that? It's a good point. Right? And that's why they say to meditate first thing in the morning or right before you go to bed because you're calmer. You're already in the parasitic. Right? So I think that was a huge learning curve for me was realizing like I can still get I can get more accomplished and better. Yep. If I actually take time for myself to unplug.

Starting point is 00:57:27 You know, you're probably operating a little bit at a fear, like I got to prove, I got to prove. 100%. That's what I'm saying. You know, it was 100% fear-based. And that's made work so much more enjoyable and so much more efficient and effective. And Aubrey, you've proven your worth for sure.

Starting point is 00:57:45 No doubt, you know, we've doubled in the, in less than a year, I think at the six month mark, we had doubled the downloads per episode for the on-appost gas. Fuck yeah dude. Thanks to having guys like mine pump on. Oh, you guys are number three all time. All time, man.

Starting point is 00:58:00 Number three. Number one is Aubrey from on the day and that's a given. Oh yeah, everyone that's cheating, it's cheating. Yeah, I read the book three times so Prior to interviewing him so there's no doubt I was the best interviewer for Aubrey's And I think that that really struck a chord with a lot of people but you know, so obviously, you know for podcasts is good People are gonna tell their friends. We'll do another one. We suck last time No, no, we'll do it. I'm coming back to the bay in May.

Starting point is 00:58:27 Not too much alpha braid. Yeah. We never told him. We got up so high that we crashed, yeah, for sure. I'm not even on alpha brained right now, and I feel good. I'm gonna run someone I get home. But yeah, when I come back in May,

Starting point is 00:58:38 I want to interview you guys in the My and Pump studio. Fuck yeah. And you guys can drop box me that shit. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Who was the other one? So you had Aubrey, me that shit. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. That's awesome. Who was the other one? So you had Aubrey, who's number two?

Starting point is 00:58:47 Mark Smelly Bell. Oh. Oh no, we're doing another one. Yeah man. Yeah. Oh no. We'll let the CEO of on it be this maybe. But yeah.

Starting point is 00:58:57 Hey man, Bell was the first guy to crack 40,000. He, yeah. Yeah, he's got a big falling. But what would he do? Look at that. I mean, you guys will be at 40,000 by the time we're recording in. But yeah, I mean, Bell will a big falling But we'll get there. I mean you guys will be at 40,000 by the time we're recording in But yeah, I mean that Bell will probably be at 50 then all right

Starting point is 00:59:10 Well, yeah, we don't exactly have to get us to But yeah, you know like the podcast doubling in numbers working in product development I'm finally now seeing it takes so fucking long to have an idea of a supplement to do the research to the fucking put all the ingredients together to source it, to place the PO to get the label done. It takes and they're thank, thank God there's a giant fucking team of experts that I work with in that. So I have a mind of and on the office guinea pig so I try shit out and I'm probably the, you know, out of all the people in product development outside of Aubrey, I trained the hardest,

Starting point is 00:59:49 you know, and I've been a professional athlete. So really testing shit first as the guinea pig to see like, does this work? Does it fucking impact you? You guys really negatively. That is such an important point, dude, because when you're, when you're fit, when you're really fit and you eat, well, that's when you can tell what's working, what's not. When you're not doing that shit, how do you fucking know? Yeah, it's hard to tell. So important. And you gotta, I mean, we gotta weed through a lot of bullshit.

Starting point is 01:00:12 There's a lot of bullshit in the supplement game. It's no different when you're a supplement company, making supplements we go to. I just went to the supply side East, it's caucus New Jersey with a couple guys from the team, well guy on the girl. And they see the fucking on and on your badge. And it's like, I got this, you guys gotta use it.

Starting point is 01:00:30 You can put in this product. I mean, fucking everyone in their mom comes up to you to say, use this thing, it's the next greatest thing. And we're not a performance company. We're not a longevity company. We're not a sports nutrition company. We're doing more of that with exos now as a partner But we want people to feel shit, you know, like that's the name of the game It's not like take my word for it. This is gonna help you long-term. Like I want you to fucking feel different

Starting point is 01:00:53 You know, so I think having those things start to fucking come to fruition and manifest like literally and it's airy fairy wording But it sounds like you have something in production that you're Yeah, I have many Let's airy fairy wording, but it sounds like you have something in production that you're getting. Yeah, I have many screw around it. I have many babies in the womb that are about to be fucking hurt and I am so fucking pumped for it. And I wish I could talk about them, but that's a big no no. Sure, but you need people to test it for you, right?

Starting point is 01:01:15 Yeah, yeah. Oh, you all fucking throw you guys some shit. You all fucking love it. All right. You will love. You will love. Now can I take it poorly or do I have to keystrike? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:01:24 Everything seems to be keystrived in these days. You love. Can I take it? Or do I have to keyster it? Everything seems to be keyster in these days. Over there. I you need a pea shooter and another person to do the applying to all of the. I'll blow it up the. Can we talk about my cat? Can we talk about our good friend, Ben? Did you see him? He actually insta storied his whole fucking coffee. And I'ma did you watch that? No, but did you see him fucking pre and post eating shit? you watch that? No, but did you see him fucking pre and post eating shit? What was that?

Starting point is 01:01:46 Excuse me. You mean everyone? I mean, he didn't eat fecal matter. Okay, okay, okay. I wouldn't be surprised. That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say, I wouldn't be able to. He did that.

Starting point is 01:01:56 Frozen poop capsule for the microbiome. I'm sure that's in his future. No, when he fell off his bus, he was at, he was at, he was at, he was at, we were in the sauna fucking off and just catching up. And it's funny because he was like, I need a bike. hang of we were in the sauna fucking off and just just catching up and It's funny because he was like I need a bike Do you know anybody in town? I was like yeah, man. Let me hit a plant Armstrong name drop and

Starting point is 01:02:14 So I hit a glance and He's gonna fucking get a bike from Lancashire Melo Johnny's out in Austin and he ended up going with like this ellipse to go and he ended up going with this ellipse to go. That's how it was talking about. I didn't even know that. I was like, that's why he got hit because he was right as stupid by him. You guys know in the Bay Area,

Starting point is 01:02:34 I mean, how many fucking tech dorks are on like this? Thank you. I created this cool bike that nobody else has. It doesn't look as efficient as a bicycle. It looks like it as a bicycle. It's exactly what I'm saying. It looks much harder.

Starting point is 01:02:47 It's a robot. You look like God. You're looking, you're gonna die on that thing. So sure enough, I mean, he grazed the side mirror. I don't even think the car realized that he grazed it. But I mean, he went face first in the fucking ground. This is the day before PaleoFX., most of his talks on Friday also. And he hits me up and he's show, and it's what's funny is my wife and I always laugh that he always has the Zoolander look.

Starting point is 01:03:14 And so his face was fucked man. He heard his neck and he's like, yeah, blue steel. But he writes me, he's like, do you know any chiro's in town? And I was like, I know too, let me check in with him. But he send me screenshots or selfies of his fucking face. And he still looks so goddamn handsome. Yeah. I was like, damn, dude, you hate shit, but fuck you look good. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:38 So he was able to get adjusted and, yeah, man, he, it was a fucking tough deal, but that's funny. I mean, it's like, well, you did go with the elliptical. That was your first stage. So what happens if these supplements that you're in charge of getting going, if they succeed and stuff? What happens with you? Does that elevate you or?

Starting point is 01:04:00 Pay raises around the fucking clock. Exactly. No, I don't think it's incremental like that, but at the same time, you know, yeah, if you show a dollar amount that you're creating for the company, I mean, I think there's your gold, man, they fucking eat, they struck some gold with you, bro. Well, without sharing your personal finances and stuff like that, how does your, your pay structure work? You know, do you, are you a salad employee? Do you do make commission? Do you, are you, are you a salary full time? No commission? And, you know, on it really does have probably the best benefits package in the world.

Starting point is 01:04:31 They have nothing to compare that to, but everyone we've talked to, like, I don't even have a website, I don't know how to have all my jobs. It's way better than the UFC's insurance. Just having a 401k is much better than the UFC's retirement plan. Wow, the non-existent retirement plan. But yeah, I mean, the 401k's guys were like, we work with many different companies and nobody has the structure you guys have. So it's really cool. Well, they pay for education. They do it for all that.

Starting point is 01:04:57 Yeah, we get 5200 a year and continue education. Oh, wow. So it's fucking sick, you know, and that covers, it's not just like, know, and that covers, it's not just like, yeah, we'll pay that tuition and then you gotta fly there and pay for your own hotel. Like, that's all included, you know. Wow.

Starting point is 01:05:12 Oh, that's cool. It's really cool. And there's so many things that go, I've mentioned this before, they're probably pissing people off, but 50% off massages, they do copay massages, copay stretching, copay fucking body work that you can have done

Starting point is 01:05:26 in the office on the clock. Yeah, that's dope. Yeah, I'm gonna go to the massage room and get a massage for 90 minutes on the clock. Not mad at the f-off. It's a beautiful fucking thing. So I mean, we're in a spot now where things have really taken off in different ways, especially

Starting point is 01:05:48 having a family wanting to be the provider. My wife's a stay at home mom, she's doing yoga teacher training and things like that. But even when she finishes her first 200 hours, she's not going to jump right into teaching full-time. She wants to have 500 hours before she really teaches consistently. So it's nice being the solo income earner to know like we're not just getting by, we're planning seats for the future. And that's really important. I wanna ask you about your family

Starting point is 01:06:14 because I really appreciate when I'm around families, and you can feel that they're just a good energy with them. And you and your wife and with your son, you guys have such an incredible dynamic. I mean, you can really feel the love and you guys are very open. And it's just awesome. Can you talk about like, what's your approach with all that? Because you guys, I mean, just a great dynamic. Yeah, I think, I mean, there's a couple of things

Starting point is 01:06:45 that I think go into that one, there's a willingness to change and grow together. And I think that's massive. It's something I didn't have in the last seven year relationship I was in, we grew apart over time. And that happens to a lot of people, but I know this is somebody I can grow old with. And because that baseline criteria of, I'm willing to do the work. And what I mean by that is, I can grow old with. Because that baseline criteria of I'm willing to do the work.

Starting point is 01:07:06 And what I mean by that is I've done Iowa with my wife 12 times. We've dropped in with rogue doses of psilocybin many times. Our first experience together was psilocybin with my old coach, who's Native American. And I brought an ounce to a tame as call,, you know, a Native American sweat lodge, and it was gonna be with three other fighters from the fight team and the two of us, and all three backed out while we're on the drive. So I get there and I tell my coach, like,

Starting point is 01:07:33 hey, you know, give us whatever you think is the right dose, and then the rest is yours is a thank you. And he was like, oh, thank you very much. He took fucking two caps out of the bag for himself and how to split the rest. Oh, shit. And my wife had never done anything. She'd never even smoked weed. And she's looking at this. She's like, this is, and we had a chewing. I wouldn't they weren't ground or capsillating or anything like that. So she, we're just chewing relentlessly for like 30 minutes all through a bag of mushrooms. 13 and a half grams each holy shit and it's right

Starting point is 01:08:06 before you go into a 45 minute sweat lodge and she's like is this a lot and I was like no I'm looking at like a fog I've never done this but I also I trust she's tiny your wife is tiny yeah 110 115 pounds yeah yeah she's a small first she's happy but I mean that's there's there's courage in taking steps into the unknown. And also, I mean, I don't fucking recommend people take that high of a dose however, we had incredible guidance. It was an incredibly safe space. You know, we're on a Native American reservation. But you guys just seem like a team though. I mean, forget about all the thing that those, you know, whatever your practices are,

Starting point is 01:08:45 because I feel like those were experience, what I'm getting at is those experiences really helped us. They shifted us because shit was rocky in the beginning, you know, I drank like a fucking piece of shit, you know, I wanted to be out of my mind and didn't realize it. It wasn't like, I wasn't drinking because I was sad or upset or depressed or anything like that. It was, I just want to have a good time, but I would always just fucking drink myself

Starting point is 01:09:09 under the table. And I wasn't an angry drunker or anything like that, but ultimately it was not healthy. And her trying to keep up with that was not healthy. And I think being able to see things with new eyes, which often those ceremonies do, has been a refresher for us and it's helped us come closer together. But it is that willingness to work, it's the willingness to be able to communicate better, to fucking talk and say the things that most people

Starting point is 01:09:33 don't say to one another that helps us grow. Yeah, you guys just seem like such a tight team, and you guys prioritize your son so much every time I see you guys all together. How old is your boy now? He'll be three next month. Now, are you guys gonna, is he gonna go to, are you gonna put him in school? Is he gonna go to a homeschool?

Starting point is 01:09:47 How does that be called? We've talked, my wife was homeschooled, we've talked about that. You know, going up to see Greenfield at his house, I really expected his kids to be homeschooled because he was homeschooled kids through 12, but he talked about not being able to play well with others and a lot of the shortcomings of that

Starting point is 01:10:01 and wanting that for his kids. Also the fact that he travels so much, he thought it would be wise to put him in a private school and then when they're done, that's when he's done. When the second they get home, he makes sure he's completely done with work and that's when he teaches them all the shit they don't learn in school.

Starting point is 01:10:16 How to forge for wild mushrooms. Oh, he's a great dad. Food, it's fans of fucking great dad. How to bohunt all the cool shit, right? So I think you can have that balance and that's really struck a chord with me because we were considering homeschooling for a long time. I think I lean away from that now

Starting point is 01:10:31 just because of the fact that I do travel a lot for work. I got a lot of shit going on. And that's a lot to ask of her. It's a lot to ask of her. Well, you know, the old mentality, so I had two clients that were really into the homeschool space or world. And they did an excellent job with their son.

Starting point is 01:10:48 He was in third grade. He had trouble in school. And the teachers always got learning differences this and that. The public school system can be. We want to put them on this. We want to put them on that. So they decided to homeschool them.

Starting point is 01:10:59 And they did an excellent job. And their son is definitely a very intelligently-centric kid, but also very well--centric kid, but also very well-adjusted, very comfortable. And I don't think that would have happened had they kept them in the school system. But my point with all this is, I would ask in these questions, and the way you homeschool is, there's a million different ways. Some people are like, the parents do it all, but a lot of people just use tons of resources.

Starting point is 01:11:23 So you just enroll your kid in all these different classes. And there's groups now. Yeah, there's homeschooling groups. So like Tuesdays and Thursdays, you're at such and such house, social interaction. Yeah, exactly. And it's with groups of kids. So they're at least in, they're in a small, they're in like a fucking class of eight kids with one teacher. So they do get a lot more private teaching and close quarters. And there's still a social aspect to that. I've seen Excuse me. I've seen a homeschooling go really great where There's so much freedom in what you can do, you know, if you're gonna go travel a lot That's fucking amazing to have that ability to travel and learn on the road and still get your homework done

Starting point is 01:11:59 And all that shit and then also, you know I've seen kids that were taking like morning jiu-jitsu classes and things like that during the daytime that they would never be able to do if they were in regular school. I love it. Did you like school? I fucking hated school. I thought so. Now, here's a deal. Now, this is an interesting point because you hated school, but I would consider you a

Starting point is 01:12:18 very intelligent person. You have a very high aptitude for learning and yet you fucking hated school. And that was Paul Shetty. How shitty is that? Paul checked, dropped out. Thank you, Doug. Paul checked, dropped out and then I grade. Yeah, and he's one of the smartest things in the same well-instein person.

Starting point is 01:12:31 Yeah. And he's one of the smartest people I've ever met. I mean, what does that tell you? That's fucked up when you got really intelligent people who love to learn, who have a high aptitude and they're put in a situation where they are convinced that they don't like to learn. I wonder, did you go through a period where where they are convinced that they don't like to learn. I wonder, did you go through a period where like,

Starting point is 01:12:46 well, I just don't like to learn. I don't think this is. No, there were things that I gravitated towards, you know, and certainly in college, there was classes that I really fucking enjoy it. I loved philosophy, psychology, sociology, like, figure out what made people tick. And it's funny because half the reason I quit

Starting point is 01:13:03 my senior year and didn't go back is it's like, I'm never to use this fucking degree for anything. I don't need this basket weaving degree. Like, to stay eligible for football, I changed majors three times until it was a bachelor of interdisciplinary studies. So it's two minor students. That means one major. And then most of the classes you take as a senior are on how to sell yourself on why your

Starting point is 01:13:22 major is a legit. They are actual BIS classes on how you're gonna fucking approach interviews and shit. That's really nice that you guys do that, but I know what this is. I know the session you need to agree. And from Arizona State, nonetheless, it's like, all right, it's a shit school with a shit degree, but oddly enough, great party.

Starting point is 01:13:46 I'm one of the few people, I was gonna say it can be, that shit school play play ranked to like number one. We were number one party school in the nation twice while I was there, not even in the top 10. I'm not trying to say you're the reason that they were number one party school. But I contributed, right?

Starting point is 01:13:59 I contributed the cause. You know, I'm one of the few people that I know that actually uses everything I learned in college for what I do now. Like a communication was the main focus in podcasting, learning what people make people take, you know, things like that. It all circled back into that. So it's kind of, it's totally ironic. And I never would have known like, oh, this is what I'm going to do later on.

Starting point is 01:14:20 Talk about you ever. Take a talk about your growth in that because one of the things that I loved about you when we first met, which sometimes this is really just your hands on face. Yeah, no. Was blessing. You were you were very open. I remember when you first started your podcast to hear someone else criticize it or tell you what you we thought, oh, maybe you should or shouldn't do this. And a lot of people are not open to that. You know, I'm saying, and I feel like you're very growth-minded. That's why you were open to that. What are some of the things that you have kind of grown

Starting point is 01:14:48 and gotten better at? Have you gone back and kind of evaluated your own interview skills and the way you do stuff? Like are you paying attention to that? Yeah, I used to do it more. And I honestly have learned a lot from you guys, not to bother your nuts. But I remember where you were talking to Conor about this.

Starting point is 01:15:06 We were sitting on this couch. I don't think the interview was ever released, but I'm sure it wasn't released. But Conor was feeling like he was getting ragged all the little bit, but one of the points that you brought up was you have to hit the lowest common denominator. Excuse me, you have to speak in a way. Tobochico will give me some fucking birth

Starting point is 01:15:23 so apologies to the people listening right now. You have to be able to speak in a way to Bochiko will give me some fucking bird apologies to the people listening right now You have to be able to speak in a way that hits the masses and if you get too airy fair You're out in the woods that's gonna fucking turn people off and I know you guys do a great job of trying to fucking pad that for certain listeners like like Hey, Paul I know you know you're mentioning the term God will probably have a lot of people turning off the podcast right now. So, at least save it for 10 minutes. You know what I'm getting at? And obviously you have to do that.

Starting point is 01:15:55 You know, it's something, you know, like. It's just communicating. And a lot of people think, yeah, there's a way you can say it. And you talked about this with acupuncture, you know, like a removing Qi. Well, if you just tell me how it's affecting the fucking nervous system, I'm buying into it. And if it's gonna do that shit along the side

Starting point is 01:16:10 and move my Qi and unlock Shokras and all that, that's great, but don't sell me on that, you know, know your audience, right? And so I think, you know, obviously, taking over total human optimization podcast, changing it to the on-up podcast is a refresher, similar to the realness is a refresher. A little bit of re-branding, right?

Starting point is 01:16:30 Same thing. Same thing. Same thing. Same thing. You know, I think I bring a bit more to the tables in the previous host and not to discount on what he knew and what he brought to the table. And but we do have, you know, on it is so big because of Joe Rogan. So we do have a lot of fans from that that want to call bullshit when they see it.

Starting point is 01:16:50 And, you know, there's still, you know, some broy listeners that are just trying to, you know, just trying to better themselves and they're not sure about stuff. So it's not everything fucking hits. But at the same time, I do want to expose people to meditation. I do want to give people the tools that have helped me the most. Because it's fucking legit. It fucking works man. It really does.

Starting point is 01:17:09 And it's your job. It's your job as a podcast or influencer communicator. What the fuck you want to call yourself? It's your responsibility with your skills because you have skills, right? This is what you're doing. You're good at it. To be able to know what you know, but then able to communicate it effectively enough so that the fucking bro on the other end, who would never even consider it,

Starting point is 01:17:29 goes, oh shit, you know what? I think I'll give that a shot. And that's how you change people's lives. That's really what it's all about. That's gotta be, brother, 100%. And I mean, thinking, having people like Paul Chekhan, who will get out in the woods, but in a beautiful way. And Anahata is a lady that I've worked with who's definitely out there, but amazing. We spent 45 minutes breaking down the Native American medicine wheel.

Starting point is 01:17:51 And just going through different Native American traditions and how we can apply that to our lives. And she can actually break it down in a language that's really accessible to people. But I think those kind of, I wanna fucking talk keto. I wanna talk carbohydrate load. I wanna talk training. We've got you guys on, we've got Mark Bellon, we've got different people in that space, but it's also important to expose people to things that are outside of their

Starting point is 01:18:11 wheelhouse. Of course, that's what growth is all about. Challenge thought. Yeah. That's it. And really it's, you know, I learned this a long time ago, and I started assuming that because I had this realization years ago, when this was for actually, I got this realization when I started getting into economics and I started to examine how effective... Milton Friedman. Yeah, exactly. I started to see how effective societies were when people were more free.

Starting point is 01:18:36 And what did that tell me? Well, that told me that most people are pretty fucking good. Most people are good people. Most people just want to be left alone, to want to be loved, want to belong, they want to contribute, they want to have meaning for the most part. And that's true because if it wasn't true by the way, free societies would crumble. You'd have to have crazy strict controls, but yet we walk outside today. I'm in Texas right now where probably 30% of the population is probably carrying a hangout or at least.

Starting point is 01:19:01 And nobody's killing themselves. Everybody everybody's cool super polite or whatever Most people are are good people and so I started assuming that when I started communicating to people and it made me way more Effective instead of assuming like you're needy. You don't know. We're talking about to teach you something I started assuming like okay, we may have different opinions But you're a good person. You're generally a good person just like I am so Knowing that I'm gonna communicate differently, and it was way more effective. And not only that, but I learned how to listen better.

Starting point is 01:19:30 That was a big one. That's been a massive one, you know, and not just from working on it or podcasting or anything like that, but being a good listener is so important, especially in relationships. And that's another key takeaway from my wife and I is the ability to listen to one another, just to keep your mouth shut, you know, to let people finish what they're

Starting point is 01:19:49 saying and to give people a safe space, a safe bubble. Give them the fucking opportunity to get what they have inside out. You know, so many times we're waiting to jump in or waiting to say the next thing and we don't allow that to happen. And that's where conversations fail. And you can tell, like when you're talking with people and it doesn't even have to be, you know, somebody you'll never see again or the single serving friends,

Starting point is 01:20:14 like they talk about our fucking fight club, like you're sitting on the airplane. Like it doesn't have to be that kind of conversation, but there's plenty of times where you're in conversation with people, especially at events like this. And you realize like this motherfucker's not listening to me. He's just trying to fucking jump in whenever he can, or you know, he's, that you can tell.

Starting point is 01:20:32 And I think when you talk to somebody who actually is listening to you, especially as a podcaster where we have real conversations like this often, it's very meaningful. Like you feel heard, and there's a connection that's made there. That's fucking massive. Anything that you still see yourself right now

Starting point is 01:20:48 that like that concerns or reminds you of a struggle or something that you're getting better at within the podcast, you know what I'm saying? Like as far as habits that you have, like I have a really bad habit of like rambling. I'll answer a question and then I'll just keep going on and on and on about something like that. And so, or I'll talk really fast. And so I'm trying to be cognizant of that and slow down my speech

Starting point is 01:21:08 and pause between things. Do you have habits that you see yourself and you're trying to improve on? Yeah, there are times, you know, usually I try to evaluate right after the podcast because it's not often that I'll get to listen to the podcast. And I know that was a great tip. You guys gave me was to relist into the podcast that you launched. And even before it comes out and critique yourself, you know, give yourself an honest look. And I did that a lot early on and that really helped me get better. Now I don't have really have the time for that. If I'm listening to podcasts, I'm listening to you guys, Rogan's, and God knows who else to try to gather more information

Starting point is 01:21:41 for the podcast. I want outside influences, but I think in that, there's still self-evaluation, and what I find that I'm really working on is the balance of knowing when to speak and how long to speak, because it's not the Kyle Kingsbury show, it's on a podcast, but at the same time there needs to be that flow. People are tuning in to hear me just as much as the fucking guest. People are turning the listen people turning this fucking you guys it is a dance, right? You know, yeah, you really have to pay attention to how things are moving and like where to contribute and you know to keep it going Instead of just like abruptly changing topics and you know some people haven't really understood that process yet

Starting point is 01:22:19 Yeah, and and it goes both ways, you know, I feel like I do a better I've been complimented many times on me allowing the speaker to speak, not having to fucking just chime in whenever I feel it's okay. Yeah, really giving them a floor to say their wealth of knowledge and speak. There are times where you get people

Starting point is 01:22:38 that will just fucking keep going and going. And if I can't jump in to help facilitate the steering in the direction I want it to go, like, you know, I'm going to get to this question. Let me ask, you know, those kind of things, there has to be times where it's given take and certain guests are better than others as you guys know. So I think that's all fine tuning and it gets better every time you do it. You are a struggle not challenging people when you feel like you know you should inside

Starting point is 01:23:04 and you want to be respectful because they're your guests I do this sometimes I feel like that took us a while to fucking Yeah, like I you're in my house the first time I'm interviewing you I you're just made like you say some shit that I just I want to challenge it or whatever right or I disagree somehow But then I just kind of let it go by because I'm like well, I don't want to I don't want to be that I usually I usually don't try to prove people wrong. I mean, I'll take one, for example. It hasn't even aired yet.

Starting point is 01:23:32 Guy was talking about the endocannabinoid system and beautifully. And I was talking about CB1 receptors and how everywhere it goes through the body from the brain all the way down through the spine and out through the periphery Yeah, in the nervous system, and I was like, yeah, it's incredible man. THC fits right in there And he was like no, THC fits in a different receptor, and I was like, oh, you know, and then he caught himself

Starting point is 01:23:57 Really? Really? Like, dude knows everything you fucking damn sure better know where THCD fits in and and then he was like oh I I think I misheard you you know it was cool though because I allowed him by not jumping on his ass He was yeah, he was able to backtrack and me like oh yeah, I think I misheard you and and kind of write the ship there We used to have trouble doing that. Not as much anymore. Now we'll start to call people out because who was at that Jordan Harbinger from the Jordan Harbinger show? He used to be on...

Starting point is 01:24:33 Articharm. Yeah, fucking. Who's a, he's, I think he's probably the best podcaster I've ever liked. Podcast-a-wrest. Oh, he's a black belt. Yeah, exactly. And he goes, you're recording

Starting point is 01:24:45 the show for your audience or not recording it for necessarily for your guests. When you're having a conversation, remember that, like, it's for your audience. So if you want to challenge him, do it. Worst case scenario, the guy gets pissed off and leaves and then you have a good episode anyway. And I thought of that. I'm like, Oh, shit. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Plus, that's how I talk. Anyway talk anyway. The, what I've noticed is the longer we podcast, the more the podcast has now become how I talk in real life, which is the way, and I'm like that anyway in real life.

Starting point is 01:25:12 If someone says something that I disagree with, I tend to speak up, so, which is down to podcast now anyway. When we, when we interviewed, I wanna make you dance a little bit, all right? We, like, because I know it won't be easy for you to dance. I was listening to a fucking David Bowie, let's dance on the right here. I'm ready. I'm ready. So when we were interviewing Aubrey last time, I was asking him some questions that I thought were a little challenging and hard for him as far as being the CEO and where he sees himself in the future.

Starting point is 01:25:45 And I got the feeling that, you know, he's really wanting to go down this, like, becoming in an author and he's, I mean, obviously the book launch is done incredible. New York Times bestseller. Yeah, he's killing it. Evergreen, forever. That's on his fucking book, New York Times bestseller. I mean, so he is, he's fucking killing it exactly which what it and it sounded like by the questions I was asking him that there's a good chance that he may move on into this just full-time offer more into being an author yeah and that

Starting point is 01:26:16 seems to be more of his passion than being a CEO of a big fitness health company or whatever you know so what what do you do know what his plans are? Can you speculate? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I didn't think he mentioned this on the episode you guys did, because I sat on that for the only thing the last hour of it. The goal is to sell the supplement side at some point

Starting point is 01:26:41 until the right guys, right? And on the other side of it. He wants to continue to have the gyms and roll those out, along with the cafes, and those will likely be separate. Um, cafes. Yeah, the on a cafe. So you'll be able to go in and get a lot of coffee and get a fucking key. Which I love that good. That's why we can roll those out anywhere, like Santa Monica, Venice, New York, those are actually pretty fucking gangster. We

Starting point is 01:27:03 love those. Actually, the main reason why we come to the Ona gym is for us. I'm not on that cafe. Besides you, who says I have some of this cold coffee. Bone broth juice. Yeah, so I mean, he's open about that. And obviously, he wants to write several books. He has plans for, I think, at least three more right now.

Starting point is 01:27:23 And he, I think he just came to the conclusion the next book he's going to write will be on Psychedelics and Drugs. And I told him we have to, a lot of research. A lot of field research. The end equals one. First hand experience. But you know, and that'll be told similarly to On the Day, where, you know, on the day he had, this is how you do it right, and this is fucking up, and he was very self-deprecating and just, you know, opened up about being a fucking human, like where he had gone wrong. And I think that'll be incredibly important in a book about psychedelics and drugs to be able to say, like, this is how you do it wrong, this is what this looks like, you know.

Starting point is 01:28:04 So I mean, there's a right way and a wrong way to do anything But that in particular can be one where you can fucking die, you know What about you like what are you looking at moving ahead? Are you looking at just gonna keep growing this? I want to be the boss. Yeah, no, no, I mean I know you guys joke about that I think Aubrey wanted a guy I mean he told me this on the fucking flight when I was leaving PaleoFX last year, which is how I have the job. We shared the same flight back to Vegas and he was, you know, we really got to dive deep John Wolf was on that flight, we sat next to each other and when deep we talked about everything, fucking fasting, psychedelics, training, diet, nutrition, all that and he

Starting point is 01:28:40 said I have a job for you and one of the ways that he broke that down was, you know, when he's gone riding, there's nobody else that on it that I have a job for you. And one of the ways that he broke that down was, you know, when he's gone writing, there's nobody else that on it that really understands all the moving parts, the way he does. And obviously, I can bridge that gap for him. You know, so I think he'll have much more comfort in writing his next books,

Starting point is 01:28:58 not only because of the New York Times bestseller shit. Like now, he'll get published no matter what. Sure. And he'll get a much bigger advance every time. And we'll spend a good amount of that advance on research for this next book. Yeah. The point is, like, he's not gonna be in the office all the time.

Starting point is 01:29:13 And that's what's cool is that I think he can, he can let go of the reins a little bit and see positive outcomes from that. Do you see, like, are you guys adding positions to the whole fucking time? Oh, wow. Yeah, we just got the building next door to us all of creative is gonna go in there. Oh, I'm and I don't know What's gonna happen in the creative room? But I mean there's it's caught people are constantly getting reshuffled and moved around and

Starting point is 01:29:37 Pulled apartments are expanding. We've eight new hires, you know, fucking every month. Wow. How does a exos fit into all this? hires, you know, fucking every month. Wow. How does Exos fit into all this? Exos is our sister now. They are fucking, we do all their supplements for them. We have a partnership, and I think it's for the next five years that are probably continuing on after that. Mark for Stegan and Arby are very close.

Starting point is 01:29:59 And so it's cool, Exos has, I think, over 400 facilities. They're going to have one right across the street from us where we can It'll be walking distance and that'll have us. It's basically gonna be like a sports performance lab They'll have a 12 person cold pool Just all the cool show that they wouldn't spend add on it They'll spend there because it's all pro athletes and you know, you know high-level military personnel that are gonna run through there So it's really cool that we get to dive into that and Just right out of the gate. It's like all right. We you know, we make your supplements now

Starting point is 01:30:29 So we need a sports performance line. So creatine monohydrate El glutamine and electrolyte drink very bottom Bottom-rung, you know low-hanging fruit for them But we're developing a lot of cool shit for them as well that I think will that's a great partnership Yeah, and we get to sell that on the on its side too, so it's not like it's just for them You know, it's for the for the world, but that's that's helped kind of steer us in proactive element towards new things And I think that's that's fucking fantastic How long till the facilities supposed to be built, you know, I think it'll be done in the next year

Starting point is 01:31:00 Oh cool. Yeah, they already have the locations are we gonna be able to come check it out hang out? Okay, man Yeah, you guys all have access. Yeah, they already have the location. Are we going to be able to come check it out and hang out? Okay, man. Yeah, you guys all have access. Steve, you guys have VIPs. Yeah. VIPs. Oh, yeah. Pour that ball buttering going on here. Slathering off. I'm going to like it. Let's keep going for it. Yeah. We actually felt it was pretty near Mumbiscans.

Starting point is 01:31:17 This this paleo was really fun for us because I really did feel that way when we came in. It was, I mean, every booth and every check-in that we went to, I felt like either you were a listener, or you knew of the show and stuff like that. And I just, one of, again, I don't know if it's fucking Austin. I don't know if it's the people we're hanging out with, but just such a, so welcoming. And we just said, they couldn't find our names.

Starting point is 01:31:40 We weren't, because I think Mike made a call last minute, because we weren't even sure we could go to Paleo when they had this thing where they changed the VIP passes, something with the software and shit, so we couldn't be found anywhere. And I never felt like they were being dicks or trying to keep us out. They were like really working to like make it work for us,

Starting point is 01:31:58 to let us in. Mine too? Yeah. You're right, Lest. Yeah. They were really cool. There's a guy doing animal flow on the lawn You know you know cock Kingsbury he's the one letting us in come on

Starting point is 01:32:14 We're on a VIP's right. Oh, okay, here's your passage No, it was a we've sensed a shift in in our audience and we've met some incredible fans at this convention. It's a very humbling, I feel a tremendous responsibility. Do you feel a responsibility when you do your podcast? Like, okay, I need to make sure I'm saying doing the right things to help these people and give them the right information? Yeah, and to constantly give, and I think one of the, I mean, it's kind of a half-joke to say I'm the office guinea pig, but the truth is, I'm always trying.

Starting point is 01:32:46 I'm always searching. That's one of the ways we learn is through experience. So it's very easy because I'm on the front lines consistently playing with my body, with cold and different things, whatever the fucking case is, and then sharing that with the world. I can't keep that to myself. I have to give that. I think that's where the beauty is because I truly still am hungry to fucking learn. I'm hungry and thirsty for the knowledge.

Starting point is 01:33:10 And as I soak that up, it's very easy to share because this fucking fresh in my mind. And then man, this book was amazing. I'm going to get this guy on now, you know, and that kind of shit just flows together. We just had Max Lugavir from Genius Foods. I love him. He loved you guys. You know, the mind from crew is like, yeah, man, he's like, dude, they're fucking great. He's our new bestie. Dude, he was awesome. Oh, he's great. You can tease Paul.

Starting point is 01:33:32 He's a guy. He's a guy who reminds me of Dr. Ronda Patrick. Like, you'll bring up a topic and it's just they're lobbing a softball and he's hitting it out of the park each fucking time Oh, yeah, but he can quote the science the exact numbers, you know, I he's also just a good fucking person Great. He's a very good person. He's comfortable in his skin We went and played a top golf with him and we're all swinging and you know, we all we're all you know terrible swings I'm mine is absolutely horrendous. He goes up there and he's super stiff with it

Starting point is 01:34:04 We're all out. Oh, no, you can tell when he grabbed the club, that this guy has not touched a bat, a golf club, a ball stick. I mean, he's never played a ball sport. Yes, you can see that it was as foreign as it could possibly be. I mean, but so he sees us and we're laughing and then he realizes

Starting point is 01:34:22 we're laughing at ourselves and everything. And he's like, oh, man, and he's just super comfortable and we love the guy. Well, just a fact that he did that. I mean, we're we're we're becoming really good friends, but I mean, we really only hung out a couple times before just the other day when we hung out at top golf. And you know, he showed up. We're already been drinking for a while. We've been hitting the balls, making fun of each other, making memes of each other and shit, like just fucking around, having a good time. And he comes rolling in and ride away,

Starting point is 01:34:49 he's sounds like, hey, take a swing at it. And he just like, you can see there's just, no, just a second. What happened? What? Oh, I was gonna say, he's like, no, it has a taste. Oh yeah, yeah. Jack, he grabbed the club and then he walked over

Starting point is 01:35:00 and I knew it just the way he was getting ready. Like, you could just tell this fucker has never swung at a golf ball for. And he did and it was awful. I felt like kinship with him. Oh, right away. And we instantly just are dying laughing. And, you know, he turned around and looked at us afterwards.

Starting point is 01:35:15 And I got this feeling for just a split second that he was kind of trying to figure out, like, are these motherfuckers like making fun of me right now? Are we just all having fun together? And so I kind of called him over so you could see the insta story that Taylor was already filming making fun of me right now. And it's fucking me? Or we just all have them fun together. And so I kinda called them over so you could see the insta story that Taylor was already feeling making fun of all of us.

Starting point is 01:35:28 And then he realized that we all sucked and we were all just having fun and laughing at each other. And he's like, you guys are fucking so cool that you can just make fun of yourself, psyched out. And he's like, yeah, dude, there's not a lot of people like that. And I connect a lot with people

Starting point is 01:35:41 that have this ability to be so comfortable in their own skin, dude. And he's definitely like, and he's like, you said brilliant. He's fucking dialed in. Yeah, you can have a normal conversation with you. You won't even know he's that smart, but then you start asking him some really deep shit. He'll take you anywhere you want to go, man.

Starting point is 01:35:56 And so I really like that, man. My favorite part of this job, for sure. Yeah, people like him and meeting people like you. Yeah, man. Fucking awesome. Always, always, always love him. If someone were to drop in the podcast and listen to one podcast episode in the last 60 to 90 days,

Starting point is 01:36:12 which one would you tell him to listen to? Fuck. That's gonna hurt. Don't hit the spot, brother. Don't say the boss, that one's not fair. Yeah, well, that's the, that's the, it's not just going to be the one. Ah. I think, I think that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's He gave a little, a little taster from each chapter. Yeah. The book, right?

Starting point is 01:36:45 And I was like, that's such a fucking brilliant way. Of course. To market it. And people always just, it, Robin talks about this with like Hollywood producers and shit like, no, it'll tweet about it. Don't give them too much because then they won't watch. Like, no, give them fucking everything. Well, we live in a different area.

Starting point is 01:36:58 In a different area. Yeah, it's like, why do you show a fucking trailer for a movie? Yeah. You want a fucking catchable, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what I took that model for when I interviewed him. Oh, very cool.

Starting point is 01:37:08 You went through every single shot in the book and I had read it three times. So I knew the material inside and out. And you know, he was obviously not able to do that on any of the show that he went to do to promote the book because they hadn't read it. Yeah, it was not yet. You know, and even if they got an advanced copy,

Starting point is 01:37:22 they didn't read it like I did. You know, so that's smart. was it was it that for for absolute Practical shit that people can take and extrapolate and use to change their life positively. There's no doubt. That's the one. I think for That's okay. You can use that one because that does sound like yeah No, that sounds like you did your homework on that one so that you crushed it too I'm saying not just Aubrey's It was excellent. That was that was that you crushed it too, you know, saying not just Aubrey's. Yeah, no, it was excellent. And that was back and forth.

Starting point is 01:37:46 And obviously, you know, he's a close friend, like who's very close friend. I mean, I really feel like there's an instant flow there. It's not hard for us to have a fucking conversation. That's right. I do it all the time. Because I really, I do feel like we make, I mean, sure we have all these guests

Starting point is 01:37:59 that we all have on our shows and so on that. But I really think it's us who make or break the interviews, man, because I could have the most plain Jane person that nobody knows and it be an compelling fucking interview because the flow is there or a for off. Yeah right or I could have somebody who everybody is so excited to listen to but we're just choppy and they just didn't flow and just we weren't having a great conversation with that several like that where you would have thought they would be awesome but they weren't but I think it's a lot on us to do our homework.

Starting point is 01:38:26 And that's something I continue, I think, to try and involve my interview skills is to really know my guests inside and out. So I know all the great questions to ask them, maybe. That's been, I think, one of the harder parts is I don't, now I don't necessarily have the time to really dive into people. Like, I got halfway through genius foods and I'll finish the book because it's that good before Max. Obviously having read over half of his book gave me fucking more than enough material

Starting point is 01:38:53 to work with him on. And I knew that material prior, but yeah, it's not like I can read everyone's book. I interviewed this guy Casper that's, it's not out yet, vendor, stuton or something like that. He's William Hof's number one trainer Okay, and he's from the Netherlands and just fucking biohacker brilliant guy and He gave me a book called minelift and it's an incredible book that I want to dive into We talked about his his book on the podcast, but I didn't read a fucking single page of it It's I have 20 books on my desk, right? You know, so I can't I don't get to put in the work that I want to necessarily for each one But what's cool is like finding that way to navigate the space and knowing the material enough of whatever the cases where we can

Starting point is 01:39:33 Really have a great conversation and it's not always that way, you know, but but it is nice So that's the episode you think people should tune into awesome Yes, for no, I have that one. I'm talking about the old Aubrey. Yeah, man, Aubrey, for sure. On the day with Aubrey Marcus. For sure. That's the one. Well, fucking always a pleasure having him on the show, man.

Starting point is 01:39:51 Yeah, man. Always a pleasure. Absolutely. Thanks for your hospitality every time we come out here. And of course, you know, we'll always return to favor when you're back up in San Jose. Yeah, okay, man. So go to your podcast, excuse me, your app store

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 765: Kyle Kingsbury- Fasting for Muscle Gain, the Benefits of Going Barefoot, the Future of Onnit, #MeToo & MORE

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