Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 769: Using Flexing for Better Muscle Growth, How to Use Powerlifting to Improve Bodybuilding, Why Charging More Money May be a Better Move as a Trainer & MORE

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Hey guys. Yeah. Hi Sal. Uh, in this motherfucking episode. Wow!

Starting point is 00:00:19 Wow! Oh my! Poop! For the first 59 minutes. We got Taylor made in the house. Poop! For the first 59 minutes. We got Taylor made it into the house. Just and Douglass in the house. Adam Taylor. I was having his name as me, man.

Starting point is 00:00:31 Douglass. And I do our introductory conversation before we get into the questions. We start off by talking about the Viori podcast hard event last night. Damn, epic. We were, we were touched in places yesterday that felt real good. It was a night that was a good, good, good event.

Starting point is 00:00:52 By the way, we have got a hookup for all of our listeners for Viori. Now, Viori clothing is Taylor basically said, it's the sexiest stuff you could put on your body. True. If you go to Viori clothing, let me spell that out for you. It's V-U-O-R-I clothing.com forward slash mind pump. We're going to give you a full 25% off your full order.

Starting point is 00:01:15 It's a special offer. Just geared up, man. That's awesome stuff. Then we talked about our tour of the Organifi headquarters. We actually went in there, looked at their sales process, interviewed Drew Klonely. Holy Klonely. Is he a Pisano like me? He's got it with the last thing like.

Starting point is 00:01:32 Yeah, that's cool. We're also sponsored by organify. If you go to organify, if you go to organify, if you're sponsored by the sponsor. Both. Two of those. Their pain is double for double the commercial.

Starting point is 00:01:41 You're gonna roll today, Sal. That's right. Find out why Taylor's hair looks so luxurious. Yeah. If you go to organicfishop.com, enter the code Mind Pump, you'll get a big discount. We talked about Taylor's impression of our fans. He's actually attracted to most of you.

Starting point is 00:02:00 We talked about the risk of telling the truth, the power of being real and truthful, gaming the biggest loser and other contests, the objective truth movement, and our upcoming near live podcast hard event. You guys better make it to that one. There's some slots available. Sign up for that shit. Go to www.mineputmedia.com forward slash tour and sign up. By the way, for that one, you got to put the triple w in the beginning because I have no fucking idea why it just doesn't work. It doesn't work

Starting point is 00:02:36 otherwise. We don't know why. Yeah. It's technology. Then we get to the questions. The first question was, if you want to compete in both body building and powerlifting, which one should you do first? Is there a benefit? Great question. Good question. I liked it. The next question was, for online training coaching, what are our thoughts on high ticket

Starting point is 00:02:55 coaching? Do we think it's a better to go with the high cost low volume approach or the high volume low cost approach? Which one? Hang in there, Jonathan. it does take about 45 minutes, but we do finally answer this question. We run circles and we come back eventually. Excellent.

Starting point is 00:03:12 Then the next question, I go off on this one a little bit. You guys kind of let me, which get a little subconscious. I brought you a little soapbox. Yeah, we talk about the victim mentality that seems to be on the rise in society. Somebody asked us what our opinion was on that, and I went out for a little while. And then finally, last question,

Starting point is 00:03:31 can posing or flexing your muscles help with the mind muscle connection? You might have heard of the mind muscle connection from bodybuilders and muscle builders and how important it is to have a good connection to your muscles to activate them when you train them. Composing or flexing like a douchebag in the mirror, help you out Justin. Being a douchebag will help.

Starting point is 00:03:51 Can it? Also, we know what's about to happen. It's about to get warm outside. You're going to go outside. You're going to want to take your shirt off or put a bikini on and you're going to want to look fucking sexy. You're going to want to look sexy. And part of what you want to get laid sexy is being lean, fit, and healthy.

Starting point is 00:04:09 And a big part of that is nutrition. You got to work out, but you also got to eat right. So here's what we're doing for everybody to help them get ready for the summer. We are going to give you the nutrition components or the guides that we offer that deal with nutrition for free. You're getting two of them. Two, one, two, for free.

Starting point is 00:04:25 You got the intuitive nutrition guide. And the fasting guide for free, all you have to do is enroll in a maps bundle. Now bundles are we combined one or excuse me, two or more maps programs together and discounted them by over 20 to 30% off. For example, let's say you want an incredible looking backside. Taylor, let's say you want a Tushy that is sexy. A Tushy for free. And we're being hypothetical here because

Starting point is 00:04:51 we already know that you have one. That looks good already. But let's just say you didn't and you want to be in eyeball. To look really fucking good. We have something called the the we have something called the build your bundle Bundle, which includes maps aesthetic, maps at a ballac. There is a mod in there to teach you how to activate your glutes and build those glorious and just-and-looking glutes that you want in your- Can you imagine if you had- I can't get out my secret weapon.

Starting point is 00:05:15 Imagine if you had a Justin butt on his body. Oh my god. Good god. Would you be a hit at the party? Yeah. Or, let's say you just want to be- Just steer real. Let's say you want everything.

Starting point is 00:05:24 You want it all. Well, then you do the Superbundle, which includes lots of maps programs, it actually takes you through an entire year. You may as well do that. You're going to end up wanting to do all the programs. You are, let's be honest, you get the, you get the same money. Because it discounts everything 30%. It's a year of exercise program. You, you pretty much can't go wrong with that. Anyway, and roll in one of those bundles. You have not done you wrong. get the intuitive guide and the fasting guide for free

Starting point is 00:05:47 Or you can even do individual programs and pick out which one you want if you want to get those programs Or if you just want more information or if you want to look at some beautiful pictures of Taylor Are there any of your pictures of you on our our website or am I lying right now? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, kind of cool. No splashing. Top time machine. Yeah. It would be like hot time machine. I could blow dry my hair. Who do you live in there? Make some toast. Hey, who do you think said the most? Why not? Who said the most worst ideas in this business? Out of all of us. In our business.

Starting point is 00:06:35 In all of us. The most worst ideas. The most you can count them all up. Yeah. That's a tough one, man. I don't know, man. Because everyone's had some. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:43 I can't think of any that I've had. So tell me if I have. I'm not saying I have. No not saying I would say you're the winner I think you're the winner tell me some bad ideas I've had I can't remember all of it like I remember the porn ads yeah that's seeing that's everybody remembers that yeah yeah that's you know so that I'm just gonna get rolled into the bottom it's not about that I'm just saying it's the you know it's I can't remember a lot of these ideas that we've had though are bad because we tend to just forget them. Well, yeah, sometimes, yeah, exactly. A lot of times they don't happen, right?

Starting point is 00:07:09 A lot of times we say some stuff, but you're even good about catching yourself, sometimes you caught yourself like once or twice last night. You know, the energy's flowing, we're all excited after an event, and it's all like, fuck, hey, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do it after, and he's like, well, we'll just start with this.

Starting point is 00:07:24 Actually, yeah, I don't think we should do that. You know what it is. We should have Taylor. Who's a Taylor FG? Oh gosh. Yes, here it is. Who has the worst ideas? Who's the most worst ideas?

Starting point is 00:07:35 You want to stack them up. I mean, when you all get riled up, it's pretty bad. So it's collectively, it's not good. Every once in a while, we got some hitters. That's how it works though, right? You gotta kind of exhaust all ideas, all possible with numbers game. Yeah, numbers game.

Starting point is 00:07:55 It is, same way I got, you know, women. You know what, what? What? Yeah, numbers game. That's the simple, it's math. That's stretch. You're sw swing a lot. I actually had a swing.

Starting point is 00:08:07 I actually had a buddy who literally lived by that. I had one too. I was like, no, serious. He was like, serious about it. He's like, no, I know that if I ask 10 girls, phone numbers, that two of them will say yes. So I just, now, what did he do with the yeses? Always one more?

Starting point is 00:08:21 Yes. He played, he played, he played this. That would be a yes. What do they call that playing crap with your dick? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I got to read. Yeah, damn it. Oh, this one sticks. Dude, can I just say that that the event yesterday was surreal. It was Taylor. Yeah. Good job on putting that together, man. What did you do? It was a good job, man. As a, as, well, okay, here, I'll ask you, what was your opinion of the event we did yesterday?

Starting point is 00:08:50 Well, what did you think was going to happen? First of all, honestly, I had no idea. I was, I was just, I wanted people to show up. I think that was the thing that I was nervous the most about is I was really excited. And then I got, I started getting nervous and I'm like, oh goodness, this isn't art. It's not an art backyard. I can't like, I can't like all friends and family like for backup to show up like, hey, I need you to come. I need to really come to this one. But you're good looking Latin people. You're name's man. I just feel seats back home. You know. It's back home, you know, but we're all busted. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:25 Yeah. It'd be awesome. So, I mean, when people started lining up and you could see that there, there was a crap. Then we had the chance going like, that was weird, dude. That was crazy. It was like my favorite part. It was surreal, man.

Starting point is 00:09:37 It was, it was a very strange, very strange to see, because people are talking about how much we've impacted them with our podcast. And when you're hearing someone, you ever have someone give you a compliment, like come up to you and just say something to your face that just blows your way. Like, you're beautiful. Some crazy like that. Like, oh, whoa, I guess. I don't know. Every day.

Starting point is 00:09:54 Every day. It's happening. Yeah. It just becomes the norm. Yeah. But no, it's a surreal experience. And I feel like this crazy sense of responsibility when I hear that. Whoa, I got to do a good job or do a better job every time.

Starting point is 00:10:09 You know, every time I hear that, it's really crazy. But how cool was it? You know, like what I really wanted to happen is like take the magic that happens on the show, like in the studio, like I get to see it, right? Like just as a byproduct of working with you guys. But then for, I want people to see, like it's what you see is what you get,

Starting point is 00:10:25 right? And I think with a lot of people, whether it's influencers or YouTubers or people that, you know, that are looked up to a lot of the time, it's this facade, right? And it's like, you know, and then you get bummed down. And it's like, no, I think part of why mind pump is, is able to have the effect that it has on people is because it's real It's a it's what they can connect with and I and I think being able to to get outside and and there's that human factor You know like where you get to interact and it's just like that now you can take somebody that might be on the fence And then now they're a diehard fan now that now there's all the way in you know Do you remember last night when there,

Starting point is 00:11:06 if there was a moment where you saw like the experience happening the way you wanted to happen? Yeah, you do. Because it became a podcast. That was the weird part, like we were up there answering questions and. It was when you guys started just riffing together. Talking to each other.

Starting point is 00:11:22 Yeah, and that was when it felt, because the difficulties we've had in the past, we haven't done a ton of events or, we've done no events like last night, but we've done a few where we've talked to crowds or whatever, and it's difficult to create the same strange weird chemistry that we have when we podcast with all these people watching,

Starting point is 00:11:44 but it happened last night. I felt that chemistry because we started talking to each other and there were moments where I forgot there were other people in the room and that's when we're able to kind of get into our into our flow and it was was really fun. It was intimate. Would there would there be in that many people there? It was it yeah it's hard to do the speakers not working. Yeah well which I kind of I feel like I go Doug. Yeah, I kind of feel like that was such a it was a blessing in disguise. I mean, I really do. I am and I remember when I was introing it right when we were first talking, one of the

Starting point is 00:12:16 things that I was say I brought up the fight. The speakers weren't working at the top, but I wanted this to be like a campfire type of setting always, you know, say, no, I always wanted it to be like that feel because my biggest fear of going into this, and that's not a fear, but the thing that I didn't want to happen was I didn't want it to turn into like the seminar hundreds of seminars that I've run in my life, where it's I stand up and I talk and we can easily go into that. Oh, easily. Easily.

Starting point is 00:12:43 But it pours the shit out of me. Oh, big time. You, easily. But it pours the shit out of me. Oh, a big time. You know what I'm saying? Plus we've got good information and stuff. I don't think we're seminar material. You know what I mean? If I'm watching a seminar, I want to listen to Dom Diagostino or something like that.

Starting point is 00:12:56 You know what I mean? What do you mean? For research and all the more points. If you listen to more than 50 of our episodes, what are we going to talk about in a seminar? You know what I mean? Talk about fasting, fat loss, whatever. Well, that's why I think this dynamic was so awesome

Starting point is 00:13:10 and unique because it was our people. Like, we finally got to speak in front of people who've listened to us over the years and appreciate our content and you could totally hear that and the questions they're asking us. Do you hear it when I asked, when I first time I asked, I said, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:26 how many, how many of you guys listen to Mind Pump, and they laughed at me. Like, I got like a chuckle, like a chuckle and then everybody raised their hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whoa. Yeah, asshole. I just, four hours over here to see you. Like, I don't listen to the show.

Starting point is 00:13:38 Like, of course, right? So it was like, okay, this is cool. Like, this is, uh, like it was cool. We did, we, they came in, they got free beer. So we were given out beer and wine. Yeah, that was a great one. They got, what was the name of the wine?

Starting point is 00:13:52 Free public. Oh yeah. Free public wine. They got 25% off, Viori. Which by the way, Viori hooked it up. They gave us outfits and their shit is, I mean, it's amazing. It's the quality is ridiculous.

Starting point is 00:14:06 But everybody there got a discount on jewelry clothing. We gave away a free program to everybody in the room. That was awesome. That was Adam's idea. And I thought that was a great idea. That was awesome. Doug wasn't aware of it. He was like, what was that? I'm stucker.

Starting point is 00:14:19 I'm stucker, little. Doug, fucker. Yeah. Fuck her up. No,'m so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared.

Starting point is 00:14:30 I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared.

Starting point is 00:14:38 I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared., yeah, yeah. I thought that was really cool. And it's a great brand to partner with. Good people that were there, the owner showed up

Starting point is 00:14:46 and hung out with us a little bit. And the staff was awesome. Oh, Joan is wife or so cool, man. Yeah, dude, that company's on the cutting edge of the style, the trends, you can feel it, you can see it in the clothing. Oh, they're about to take over, man. There really hasn't been good gear like that for men,

Starting point is 00:15:02 specifically. I can't even think of the last time. I've known a brand that has taken that kind of quality to men's clothing. You see that with women's clothing all the time, but everybody that loves Lulu, right, knows that it's a badass brand too, but it's so, yeah, and they offer men's stuff,

Starting point is 00:15:20 but they just are not, it's an afterthought though. Yeah, and it feels like an afterthought when you shot there. Where when you shot here, it's not like that at all, dude. No, no, no, no. What I was telling a lot of, you know, we had a chance to mingle with people afterwards and how cool is it? We're two young brands, right?

Starting point is 00:15:36 We're probably each three years into our respective journeys can partner up and everybody that is a Vory customer and in sports Vory, they should be listening to MindPump. Everybody listen to MindPump, should be wearing warrior. You know, and it's just like, like we can grow together in our respective spaces

Starting point is 00:15:52 and it becomes a win-win, which is super neat. Bro, you have a very romantic voice on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. He makes love to the Michael of the building. He's got that. What did you call him, super suaveau? Super suaveau Oh, super suave

Starting point is 00:16:05 Yeah, like he see everybody turns it on a little it's funny to talk a little bit different You're not No, you do you do not Oh, it's excellent. What do you say? Oh, thank you. You should get all that. Yeah, so it's just funny. You make people come and I love the mic man I'm gonna make love to this thing Bro, I thought

Starting point is 00:16:24 Bro, there was a guy don't want to tell you how to do it. Bro, there was a guy. Listen, this is a girl. Listen here. Hey, girl. It's like he turns his R&B. Hey, girl. Oh, God.

Starting point is 00:16:37 I'm going to tell you a little story. You know, I got a little confused last night because while we're there, at the end, we're taking pictures with people, high-fiving people, people are asking us more questions, we're mingling and hanging out, and there was a dude in there that was kind of acting like, almost like he was a bouncer, and he would come up and be like, Taylor says we need to cut a little cap to the survey.

Starting point is 00:16:56 I tapped in the survey, and I'm like, and I'm like, I'm like, is he related to Taylor? Cause he kept like, who was that guy, dude? I didn't know how many beers all night.

Starting point is 00:17:07 How many drinks he may have had. I think he's way through. Yeah, I think he was the only one that was really taking advantage of the free alcohol. Yeah, most because we did it. We hooked it up. Everybody had free drinks all night long. And I think that some people really took advantage of that.

Starting point is 00:17:24 He was a nice guy though. He was super nice. I, no, no, no, no. I forgot your name, but we called you Captain Surveys. So yeah, shout out to your mortalized as Captain Surveys. That's your nickname, man. I mean, we like you know bad. And then and then Adam snuck off with a couple fans out the, what you got? Would you go outside with a couple fans? I know there's, you know, it was really funny, dude. What you got tied with a couple of fans? You know, I was really funny, dude. That I had this out of body experience. I was literally saw myself as like a 16 year old boy.

Starting point is 00:17:54 Oh, I think I see you're like floating. No, no, these guys got me so high, dude. I was like, I want to kiss you. Yeah, no, I was, you know. So you went out and smoked a joint with these dudes? Well, you know, first of all, you're an asshole because you didn't invite us. I know. Thanks a lot. Yeah, no, I was, you know, So you went out and smoked a joint with these dudes? Well, you know, first of all, you're an asshole because you didn't invite us. I know.

Starting point is 00:18:08 Thanks a lot. Yeah, whatever. I know. It's fun. I was totally feeding my own ego dude. I really was. And I saw it, you know, it was really fun. It was really fun.

Starting point is 00:18:15 You know what happened? Yeah, I just let it have, I was like, I was just going to feel, he'll do me a feed to see go for many of us. Yeah. Tell me how cool I am real quick. So we did and I was, there's, we were sitting out there for, I don't know, how cool I am real quick. So we did. And I was there's a we were sitting out there for I don't know how long we were out there for. So would

Starting point is 00:18:29 you just go out to their car and there's a three. We were we were around the corner and stuff. We didn't want to be right on the main public street or what that. So we just walked around the corner and we were just and the guys the boys were cool, man. They were just we they wanted to ask questions about the cannabis industry and we we started kind of going down that path. And I don't talk about that much in depth about that as I did with these three guys. So they got to hear a lot of stuff

Starting point is 00:18:53 that I've never shared on the podcast or not. Not a lot of people even know that. That's so random. Yeah, and so it was cool. I had a really good time. And I was just chatty, Kathy, rambling like crazy. And then the phone was vibrating. And it kind of startled me.

Starting point is 00:19:07 And I saw all the miss calls from all of you guys. I was like, oh shit. I was like, we gotta go back over. I thought you got kicked in. No, we're in. Oh shit, some fans stole that. I hear exactly what you're talking about. No, I mean, shit, we had a couple times Taylor had walked up

Starting point is 00:19:20 to me. And he's like, dude, we were already an hour beyond what we were supposed to be in here. And then he'd come back to me. He's like, bro, an hour and a half past what we saw. He's like, dude, we were already an hour beyond what we were supposed to be in here. And then he'd come back to me. He's like, bro, an hour and a half past what we saw. He's like, dude, it's two hours past. I don't want to end it, man. We have to do it.

Starting point is 00:19:31 And I'm like, you gotta wrap it up. And I remember him saying that to me the first time and I kind of looked at like how many people were still waiting for each of you, like in line and how many people are waiting to still talk to me. And I go, I don't want to like fucking leave that many people hanging, right? Let me get through, let me get through majority of these. And so I'm looking and I'm going, okay, I don't want to like fucking leave that making people hanging, right? Let me get through, let me get through a majority of these. And so I'm looking and I'm going, okay, I can do that like 20 minutes or so. I'm some kind of like trying to write, but then I realize like, it never stopped.

Starting point is 00:19:52 Yeah. Yeah, I never stopped because it was the weird part. It's like you start a conversation with something, you really get into that conversation with them. And then it's like, but this is weird like time where you're like, well, I guess I got to talk, you know, we got to wrap this up somehow. And then the next person comes and it starts

Starting point is 00:20:08 a whole new conversation and it just like kept happening and happening. It was a really weird kind of thing that like went on. It was cool though. Over some of the top things that people were asking you afterwards. I answered a lot. I was telling Katrina just I was just talking to her,

Starting point is 00:20:23 catching her up. And, you know, I didn't answer a single fitness question. I was telling Katrina just I was just talking to her catching her up and You know, I didn't answer a single fitness question. I know that nobody asked me. I didn't have to break out my macro My macro brain is talking shit like that. I mean, I mean, I may be a couple I had a couple like some common theme stuff for you know trainers that were You know looking to start their own business. I got a lot of that. Yes, there's a lot of that. But then probably the next most popular thing was, you know, I talked to a lot of couples and relationship and communication. Got with Dolby. Yeah, I had a few of those relationship questions.

Starting point is 00:20:56 Mainly for me it was the coming out of your shell type questions. I was like, oh yeah, the closet. Because I'm an expert. I mean, I come out of the closet. Sharp. You know, we dress to the nines. You would run that industry. Did you have a lot of kids that were coming

Starting point is 00:21:12 up to you talking about how they were nervous? Because I didn't get into that. So it's interesting that you got that. Probably the majority, which was really cool. Because they obviously, like everybody has something they relate to each of us, you know, individually on. And I think that was one of them that people sort of were drawn to me for that aspect of it,

Starting point is 00:21:34 because obviously I'm very, you know, transparent about how uncomfortable, you know, everything was in the beginning and how this has been such a process for me of growth. And it's just great to see that that resonated, you know, with some people. I was really stoked on that. That's awesome.

Starting point is 00:21:50 I had like trainers asking me questions. I had people asking sales questions, like how to present their business better, how to sell their product better. And then I had people come up to me and talk to me about politics, which was really fucking fascinating. I got some deep conversations about markets and economics

Starting point is 00:22:07 and the concepts of liberty and all that kind of stuff, which was really cool because those are conversations that I can have for hours because I love to speculate on them and talk about the philosophies and the histories of them. Are there any conversations that you can't have for hours? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Or that's the word.

Starting point is 00:22:24 Oh, yeah, you shut that down for a week't know. Or that's what you shut that down. You're wicked. Yeah. I'll segue that shit real quick. No, my favorite is his quarterback is a lot like is it is it tips is it tips to spout off if you know information. Yeah, he's got facts. He does. He does. How about them? Why? Just to know when it went in again. All right. What do you think about that? You see a Jersey name and then you said that Drainmon kid doing pretty well

Starting point is 00:22:45 I think about that really draining out there Play the guys. Yeah, it's hard for a for a for a new player. It doesn't Yeah, yeah, I was a basketball really well. I was a total game Would you get what you guys think of the the organify tour today? Oh, you know, this was cool This is the first time we get to meet Druf in person right we interviewed him and I was really excited to one see what what he was going to be like. Because I think talking to someone via Skype is one thing. But when we get to meet somebody, I can feel the queue in the eyes. Like I feel like it seems like a cool dude. Yeah. Very, very good dude.

Starting point is 00:23:19 Man, I good, I mean, big heart. You could tell that he's got a hell of a past. He's got a hell of a story. I wish he told his story better. I think he's got a lot in there that, and I try to get dig in a couple times. They're like, see if I could get him to like release it. And he did little bits of it in the episode. I mean, I think it'll be a good episode still, but I wish you would have elaborated.

Starting point is 00:23:44 It was a good energy when we walked in there. It was cool to walk into the business because we've walked into other large supplement companies. And you walk in and you see 30 employees, 40 employees, you start talking to people. And we've all been in successful businesses. And you can start to get a sense of a business when you walk in and start to meet people.

Starting point is 00:24:05 And we've been in other companies we walk in, there's 20, 30, 40, 50 employees. You start talking to people. Nobody fucking knows what they're supposed to do. You ask people, oh, what do you do here? Oh, I manage this a little bit. And you don't get that feeling that everybody's like driving towards this common goal.

Starting point is 00:24:22 Whereas when we walk into organifi, there's charts on the wall, there's statistics, people are standing to be on the phone, people, they're super like into it, they all know it. And you, you can feel the energy in there. And you can see that they're being effective, they're being very efficient and effective. Yeah, everybody's working towards the same objective. And you can see how they all, it's very

Starting point is 00:24:44 transparent, the work that's going on So whoever's doing making moves like you're gonna see it real time and I think that that's brilliant You know, it just brings everybody together and it makes it a competitive environment I mean I love that environment tell you you said you when you were a startup you said it look kind of like that too, huh? Yeah, it's it's you can tell the energy of a sales floor When you walk in there and it seemed like they were having fun, which is really cool. That's a good sign of good culture Yeah, yeah sales is an interesting you have to have a certain culture in sales in order to be I mean I could recall you I'm sure Adam you the same thing and Justin too

Starting point is 00:25:23 When the energy is good sales improve. It's different than other Aspects of the business you know like if you're if you're a programmer engineer So you just kind of want to quiet organize clean environment and people and that's it But when it comes to sales and probably marketing too. It's like this You want almost want to feel like you're on a on a team and everybody's doing something together and it's motivating and there's lots of emotion. Sales involves lots of emotion. You need to have lots of emotion. You just feel it when you walk into a room

Starting point is 00:25:52 and it's very interesting that it's like that with sales and not so much another aspect of business. Well, do you believe that we can transfer emotion? Oh, of course. You got those mirror neurons. You see so much, absolutely. Yeah, so I mean, that's exactly why it is. That's why it's so important.

Starting point is 00:26:07 It's so important you have that culture if you're gonna be really, really successful because people can feel it. People can feel, I don't care how bad as your product is or how cool your brand is. Like if the vibe isn't right or the culture isn't right. Like, I don't know. I think it's very obvious when I walk into a business

Starting point is 00:26:22 and I see that and feel that. You know, I just, I definitely felt that there. I mean, look how smart is Drew too. I love that too talking to a guy that successful who like openly is like, no, I have no business being a CEO. Yeah. You know, like that's fucking somebody else's job.

Starting point is 00:26:38 So self-aware. Yeah. And, you know, like to do that, it takes a lot of ego too, you know, like letting go of things like that, understanding your strengths and somebody else that's within your company that you spot and you're like, wow, no, I know he would do an excellent job

Starting point is 00:26:54 and I'm gonna go ahead and step down. Like that takes a lot of balls. That's a leader. That's a real leadership is. Fake leadership is the guy that, or girl who thinks that they're the best at everything. True leaders, one that identifies the people on their team who are better than they are that's certain things in places them in the right position so that they succeed

Starting point is 00:27:12 and so that the leader succeeds or the company succeeds these are the these are the attributes about him that I really liked this that's what was drawn to me like uh... the woo woo stuff I don't give a shit about all that stuff I'm not I'm not I'm just not not, I'm just not a fan. I mean, I'm, I'm a fan of you. You don't want to start playing that big drum. He's talking. No, yeah. No, no, I'm just not, I've just never been, but I love, I love people that I'm doing that. I love people that do, you know, saying that, but it's just like, to me, sometimes what it, what it does, and it's, again, like, it's, um, it reminds me of, of, of a religion. I think

Starting point is 00:27:44 there's, there's so much positive to say about it, and I think it's important for people to have it. But I think- People are searching, man. Yeah, I know. People are searching. Look, when you're a guy like him, think about it this way.

Starting point is 00:27:55 37-year-old, he's 37, he's 37-year-old. He's made a shit ton of money for a long time before he was in mortgages. He did, what was the other thing he did? Deconsolidation. Deconsolidation. He made a shit ton of money. Organifies obviously making a shit ton of money.

Starting point is 00:28:11 He's a good-looking guy. He's fit, right? So he's kind of got everything, he's sorry about that guy. He's got everything he's supposed to have or whatever. He did it. When you get everything you think you want and you finally get it and then you realize that's not what I wanted.

Starting point is 00:28:26 Where do you go from there? Imagine that. Imagine that for a second. Everything you work your ass off and you dream of and then you finally get it and you're there and you're like, oh, this is not fulfilling at all. So that kind of happened to me. Really? So when I was doing the shoe thing, I thought success was just owning my own time and just

Starting point is 00:28:47 having the freedom to do what I wanted when I wanted. And long story short, I got to that point. I wasn't making crazy money, but more money than I had been making. And then I just wanted to go to the beach every day. I thought that was like, you know, what the entrepreneur is doing. I could get rich and then you just chilled the beach and then that's my part. Was this before or when you started growing your hair out? This is way before.

Starting point is 00:29:08 Oh, it's before the luscious locks. Oh, okay. Luscious locks. This is a star. Because I feel like that all goes together. You know, you start with going to the beach every day and then you wear the same pants. It's a relaxed. Hey, wait a minute, there's grown.

Starting point is 00:29:21 You don't waste your time putting shoes on anymore. Or you don't say this is how this all started. So, you got to share about the green juice. Taylor's been telling me since he's been drinking the green juice, he said his hair is all fucking more shiny and all that stuff. How crazy is that? I mean, look at it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:36 So, you've noticed a difference in your hair because you've been taking the green juice. I love the haggle. So, what does it shine as much as it does? It wouldn't, you know, like it's just thinking this. It's like, it's just a little bit more. Anyway, anyway, so so what happened you felt that need to throw a commercial Our sales but are triple I You're gonna sell, I sell, I sell, I sell. If we weren't talking about organic, I'd definitely throw into the commercial,

Starting point is 00:30:05 right in the middle of the commercial. We just did lines, you know, the organic vibe. Inception. So listen, you went to the beach every day, went to the pluck, you didn't wear a happy, nobody can go to the beach with you. Yeah, on a Tuesday. On a Tuesday.

Starting point is 00:30:20 Yeah, I'm like, hey, you wanna go to the beach, you wanna go lunch, you wanna go hang out, you wanna go do something, no blood, everything's like, I work, man. I got work, bro, and I'm like, well this you want to go to the beach, you want to go lunch, you want to go hang out, you want to go do something No, but I work, bro, and I'm like, this fucking sucks, you know, like this is terrible. Then you realize just like you can go to lunch with guys like me That's how we met. Well, I know that's what we did do. So buddy, that's exactly why we went to lunch. Like, this fucking kids 27 years old, he's like 23 years old, I'm free time. And like I knew what I did Like, you know, I was selling drugs at that time. So of course, I had to made the freedom

Starting point is 00:30:46 so I could do whatever the fuck I wanted to, what I want to do. This guy, I'm like, what's he doing? I know he's a good kid. He ain't selling drugs. He's not doing something like that. No, he just get bored. And then there's no point to it.

Starting point is 00:30:55 And it's like whatever. Now, what does that feeling feel like? Because I think a lot of people, empty. Yeah. And then what's worse is you thought it was gonna be so much better than it actually is or was. And so you, you know, like you grind, you work your ass off, you make a lot of sacrifices to kind of get to where you think you want to be or what success is to you. And like I put all my eggs in that basket and it was just, it was terrible.

Starting point is 00:31:22 It was sad. Yeah, it was a worse part. Did you feel depressed? Did it make you feel really? Yeah. Really? Because you had nothing to strive for. No. I mean that was at a time like how the marriage thing was right. That's right. You always forget that. You were not. I did too. And then it's yeah. Yeah. So that that happened. The business was doing better than it had ever been doing. And then I'm just like you know I should be happy, but I'm not right maybe not for that other part, but So that that's when I was like oh yeah So what what conclusion did you come for like come to from that?

Starting point is 00:31:56 Will you say like did you reevaluate what it means to you to I think it took it took me yeah I think it took me a long time to try to figure out what my purpose was. What is it now? I don't know. I just want to do cool shit with cool people. I think we're doing that. Last night, I think it was pretty cool. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:13 So you're hanging out with us? Yeah, it's cool. I feel cool now. Yeah, man. That's like Taylor Allen Asian. I mean, I'm good. I think he's kind of cool, but he's finally rubbing off on you a little bit. You think he's rubbing off on you a little bit? What, making me cooler? No, that's impossible. I'm an old I think he's I think he's kind of cool. He's finally rubbing off on you a little bit. Huh? You think he's rubbing off on you a little bit. What making me cooler? No, that's impossible. I'm I'm an old dog, dude

Starting point is 00:32:29 Let me put let me tell you something right now and I'm extremely confident with myself. Look at those socks, dude These socks, oh no, I've been doing that. I've been doing that for a while, bro I know I'm just saying yeah, and that was an accident to be honest with you Hey, look bro, every once in a while every every once in a while, a broken clock is getting, you know what I mean? Broke, they say a broken clock's right twice a day. Yeah, I was an accident with a sock. But so, so for you meaning, for you,

Starting point is 00:32:52 you're just like, I just want to feel fulfilled with what I'm doing. And it's not necessarily the money or the flexibility in my hours. It's just feeling a purpose behind what I'm doing. Yeah, I think, I think having an impact matters. Do you, do you think you're finding that through mind pump right now? Absolutely. Yeah. Now do you think you're finding that through Mind Pump?

Starting point is 00:33:05 Absolutely. Yeah. Now, do you think there's been? Well, we were going to give you a raise, but we don't need to know. Yeah. Yeah. This is your feeling so good.

Starting point is 00:33:14 We'll go ahead and get that back. Looks like he's legs in here. Yeah. You were sweating it there earlier. Yeah. Do you remember? You know, it's been a really fun thing to do this with you. And to be honest, I'm not letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go.

Starting point is 00:33:28 I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go.

Starting point is 00:33:44 I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. you know, like, I knew that I was really rolling the dice with even considering that because it's just like, that never works out, right? That rarely ever works out. At least I've never seen it really happen, but I really felt confident with your understanding of what we were trying to create and build and what your expertise and your talents are. And I really felt like I knew that once you felt the brand and really understood it, I knew what you got into the lingo and the way you're taking around. It's taken around, though.

Starting point is 00:34:13 You know, I think you're still like a year, didn't you? Yeah, I've shared that with you more recently where it's like I finally feel like I'm starting to get hang of all this stuff and And understand the tone in the voice in which the brand speaks, and that's really important. And then that kind of, then you can kind of build things out from there. And I think we're head in the right direction

Starting point is 00:34:35 as far as doing these live events. I always take pride in doing things that I think others aren't, and kind of leading the pack, and trying to set the tone and set the bar. And I think we're, I think we're on our way. So, well, I think, I mean, I feel like I'm starting to see that now. I knew that we would be doing that. I knew that we were already kind of doing that.

Starting point is 00:34:59 I mean, even the, just the brand and the message itself is counter, you know, the culture. I mean, the culture and fitness is not not tell the truth about everything like that. It's, you know, take a little bit of science, find a way to either scare people into buying something or, you know, attach some sort of reoccurring supplement deal on somebody. So I, I really feel like that's been the, you know, the, the message in message in our space for a long time. So we've been disrupting that since day one, but I really, I think we're finally starting to make the waves.

Starting point is 00:35:31 I can see our peers and then I can see the way they're reacting. That's when you, and that took a long time. I remember time. It's a massive compliment. It is. It's very, very cool to see. and it's what we ultimately want it right yeah we're exactly we want we just want people to to kind of understand there's a different way to do things right and and I think that you know they we don't have to be cool all the time and just show the best

Starting point is 00:35:59 you know we can we can be real with people people and humanize this experience and get, you know, get on another level with people. So it's more relatable. I just feel like it hasn't been relatable for your average person and for so long. And it's been so frustrating because now you get them as personal trainers, we get just anybody coming in and it's so fucking intimidating

Starting point is 00:36:22 because everybody puts out this superhero shit. I think that's why you guys have been able to build so much trust. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny because from a business standpoint, what an opportunity to look at an industry and be like, okay, everybody's lying.

Starting point is 00:36:39 All I have to do is tell the truth. Yeah. I was like, radical honesty. You know, like that's so radical. That's the last one. I'm a last, I'm a last time when I said you know, say, because I knew that it was so easy, bro. I knew it.

Starting point is 00:36:53 You know, it's all did when you walked in. It was like, oh, wow, really? Yeah. It's so fucking weird. Think about that for a second. How weird is that that people are like, thank you so much for not lying. That's a low standard, by the way.

Starting point is 00:37:06 You know what I mean? That's the truth, right? That's the truth, right? We ate that good, it's just the truth. Yeah, it's the truth. We're the tallest midget right now. I don't say it. I don't like it.

Starting point is 00:37:17 You know, think about that, right? Like, you know, people are just getting bullshit it left and right, and we didn't invent anything, you know, we just came in and told the truth. Yeah. And people are getting blown away by the truth. That's weird. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:31 That's weird. So we actually predators out there. The funny thing is we kind of have to think the industry for being full of shit because it would have said, if the industry was full of shit. Well, I also think that's why we don't hate. That's why we still, I mean, we have friends that, you know, how you make your money and how you do things is up to you.

Starting point is 00:37:46 That's your choice. You know what I'm saying? I'm not gonna judge anybody. That's on them. But if you're gonna leave it that wide open, that all you gotta do is come in and tell the truth and it's gonna be that fucking easy. Like shame on you for not seeing it.

Starting point is 00:37:56 Or not having the balls to do that. Because that's the thing that, that's what I, you have to know that's what kept everybody in the past. I think it's less, I think it's less of a evil thing and more of a scared thing. Well, yeah, you're not going to see return from it for a long time. There's a lot of risk. And that's what we experienced. We did not see like any like major growth financially with that message. Yeah. It was like nobody wasn't the sexiest. yeah, the marketing on online

Starting point is 00:38:25 Like our message is not getting click through right right no the in the land of lies We're gonna say in the land of lies telling the truth is is like rebellion I think or you know it's it's radical. It's You're the crazy one because you're telling the truth and in the and when things go really bad in society or in an industry they don't start off massively bad. The way they start, the way they start off is with little lies and those little lies get bigger and bigger, people start to buy in.

Starting point is 00:38:53 And so what happens is, because here's a deal. Most of the people in the fitness industry that are full of shit, they know they're full of shit. A lot of them, some people think, oh no, they're ignorant, they believe in what they, no, they know they're full of shit. Yeah, in fact, they're more successful in their in what they know, they know they're full of shit. Yeah, if they're more successful, they are, they know. They know, they know, and they buy into their own shit because you start to live the slide, live the slide, say more and more

Starting point is 00:39:13 lies about food intake, about training, about supplementation, about whatever, about Photoshop this. And here's a picture of me in my fucking bullshit car that I rented or whatever, you know, on my Instagram or whatever, and you keep doing that and it just grows and it becomes this monster. And then when you're in the industry, that's just the way it is, you know, I mean, it's hard to get out of that because you're the fucking weirdo for doing something. Yeah, it reminds me of Lance Armstrong when they ask him about, you know, PEDs and everything and he would just get so overly aggressively defensive about it because he had to, like, literally believe his own lies at that point.

Starting point is 00:39:53 And he was like, you know, he would be litigious about it too. If somebody said otherwise, it was like, that was the level. And I feel like that's a lot of the level of that, you know, the massive money and massive companies have been built off of these lies. So it's not like, this isn't something that people are really willing to slice right through and have something completely counter to that because there's no money in that.

Starting point is 00:40:20 Yeah, I have a lot of empathy for the people I can see how very easily. I mean, I know I have a lot of empathy for the people I can see how very easily I mean there was Many times that like the decisions. I mean boot camps. So is an example of this for me, you know I knew damn well like this is part of why I stopped doing boot camps was I mean I built up a very successful boot camp business But coming from someone who's did a lot of private training before, I realized quickly that I really wasn't helping these people. And I could, you know, and the way I work is that push me

Starting point is 00:40:54 to be better and to make it work. Try to make it work. Yeah, to try and make it. And I think that I like to think that I did a pretty fucking good job with the people that I had and the groups that I had, but I really wasn't really helping them long-term. At least I didn't feel that way. So you have a lot of inner struggle there, but yet I'm rapidly building this business

Starting point is 00:41:15 that's growing and I barely even throttling down on it. I knew that I could put my energy in there and really crank it. You know, something that you learn as you get older, hopefully that you learn as you get older. And I think we've all learned this lesson is that, you know, although line can get you more immediate gratification, maybe even bring you immediate success, the reality is that being honest will actually, more often than not, give you long term fulfilling success.

Starting point is 00:41:42 And when I say success, I don't just mean money. I mean, what are the real true definition of successes? I mean, like Taylor was saying, you made a bunch of money, you achieved what you thought was successful, but did you, were you successful? No, because there's so many parameters that can define what your success is. And I think what you have to imagine is that,

Starting point is 00:42:01 your life is like a limitless sea of potentials. There's a million different directions you can go. And every decision you make along the way determines where the direction of your arrow goes or where the direction of your life goes. And you have to ask yourself, if I lie a lot or if I tell the truth a lot, or at least I don't lie, what are the odds that the direction I'm going or it's gonna end up in a way that's gonna place me in a position where I'm gonna feel fulfilled and achieve success? And the odds are, you have to believe that the odds are,

Starting point is 00:42:31 that if you don't lie and you tell the truth, you're probably, the odds are probably higher that you're gonna end up in a better position. So, and that's the whole illusion of bullshitting. Cause there's an illusion out there that if I lie, if I cheat, if I steal, if I photoshop, if I make all these outlandish claims that I'm gonna be more successful,

Starting point is 00:42:53 make more money, and be happier as a result. And that's an illusion. It's actually not true at all. It's actually the opposite of truth. And so I think if you go down that path and it can be hard because it's tempting, it is very tempting to go to the other side of you that's fighting for survival, right?

Starting point is 00:43:11 And trying to live and provide for your family. And you know, that's the quickest, the easiest way to make money when you're in the fitness space. And it's tough to not do that, right? Dude, it requires humility too. Because if you're a fitness expert and somebody asks you a fitness question and you don't know the fucking answer,

Starting point is 00:43:32 you know, your ego needs to be able to be okay with saying, I don't know, and most people don't like to say that, especially when you're being placed in a position of power or authority. It's like a child asking a parent a question and the parent knowing that they don't know the answer and you do, what do you tell your kid?

Starting point is 00:43:51 They're looking up to you, your dad or whatever. Someone asks you a question about fitness and you're a fitness professional, you don't know the answer. Most people make some shit up and that's a tough thing. It's a very difficult thing to do to say, I don't know. But the funny thing is, it's way more power in it.

Starting point is 00:44:04 We've already proven that. Like, you know, being able to, you know, be real, it's a very difficult thing to do to say I don't know. But the funny thing is it's way more power in it. We've already proven that. Being able to be real, you actually make yourself a little bit more invincible, don't you? I mean, if I make a mistake, if we make a mistake, we've already shown that we can make mistakes and we're human and we're totally more like the average person than not, then you're kind of forgiven. But you paint that illusion of having all the answers. And, man, when it comes out that you're not perfect, because it will, I think, most

Starting point is 00:44:27 of the time, will come out. Look what happened to shreds. Remember what happened with shreds when the photo shopping? I mean, if they just didn't do that and if they were just more transparent, they wouldn't have been damaged by any sort of... Yeah, and that crazy, that's a good example, too, of like, that's a huge thing that happened for them that didn't probably make that much more of a difference by doing that. Sure, it probably sold some more supplements because you could show that it was more extreme results, but by how much, you know, what percentage more were you risking

Starting point is 00:44:54 just to make a couple more bucks, you know? And this is why, I mean, there's, there are some supplement companies that do it right where they don't make those ridiculous claims or whatever. Mike Matthews' company is a great example. If you watch his commercials on, I'll sometimes, he's targeting me for whatever reason I fall in this category of the sales. He's the master. That fucker has cloned our audience. He is not, it's hilarious.

Starting point is 00:45:18 And he follows me around everywhere I go. I see fucking Legion everywhere, but you can't hate on the guy. But anyway, you watch his videos, and you'll say things like, look, supplements aren't going to aren't miracle pills and what you need to do is eat right and exercise right. But if you do take supplements, here's things one. And I like that he's being honest and it's funny because businesses like his are growing and the other ones are starting to fall. You're starting to see that that trend

Starting point is 00:45:38 now start to become more popular. It's kind of cool. I don't know. It's interesting. I wonder what the future of this industry is. Well, you know what the big thing is in our space too with the is the competitions. Like that's how a lot of these, you know, Instagram fitness models do is they build this huge following up and then they do these eight week challenges. Yeah. And everybody puts money in the pot, you know, and you got if you got think about it, you have a hundred thousand followers. Some of these people have a million followers, right? You got 100,000 followers. You just need 1% of those people to spend $300

Starting point is 00:46:11 on a chance to win $5,000. It's the lottery. They play the lottery game with people. And it's, then they all get handed out these cookie cutter diets and programs. And it's, follow, follow this for eight weeks. And it's totally based off of their aesthetic change and you know, they make a fuck and man Let me tell you something right now and just so people understand this too like that

Starting point is 00:46:32 There's a lot of fucking money in that. Oh my god. I know people that do it and it's a huge because it Cater's to that false motivation that people get from being in a competition or from signing up for something in 30 days. I'm going to get a really fast shape or whatever. And it kind of caters that and I get it. And I think if you do it right, there may be some utility in it. But it's trying to wrap it.

Starting point is 00:46:57 I've been trying to wrap my brain around. I had to do it the right way. I had to do it the right way. 100%. I mean, I'm not stupid. I see there's a lot of revenue potential there. And how could we do this in a way that it would Help and benefit people that also not be missing stop making it like by all means necessary

Starting point is 00:47:11 Right, you know, like if that that tends to be the mentality that goes into these competitions that I have the biggest problem with because who knows Like who knows who's like just starving themselves and like just going through this process just to like get to some kind of an end Where it's like they show you know process just to like get to some kind of an end where it's like they show you know whatever looks like a dramatic transformation. For sure that's happening. You throw money on a challenge and tell people that in one of the options is I can starve my body and not you. I mean you're seeing competing. They do that to get up on stage all the time. Dude I have a buddy that entered into one of those weight loss competitions and the prize was it was huge

Starting point is 00:47:45 It was like 30,000 those ridiculous like 30,000 dollars. Oh, wow And yeah, because he did it with a bunch of Yeah, wealthy friends and they all put like a thousand dollars or something like that in there and it was about total weight Loss so who could lose the most weight? So this motherfucker very smart dude He knew how to game the system. So what do you think he did before the way? I read it, I gave him a bunch of words. Before the way and he packed on some masks, he was drinking like shot glasses of soy sauce

Starting point is 00:48:15 to get as much sodium in his body as possible, eating hella starches, bloating himself up, constipating himself so that he gained like 10 or 12 pounds before the day before the way and ways in, then to the day before the, you know, the, yeah, the day before the weigh-in at the end, he's in the sauna, he's dropped it because you can, if you're a big, you know, you know, you could drop like 15 pounds in a day. You know, this is, this is, this is, anyone, this is what happened. There you go on the fucking contest.

Starting point is 00:48:41 You know, this is what happened after the first season of Biggest Loser. After the first season of Biggest Loser from then on out, people gave the system. They figured out the very first season, I actually enjoyed that season because I felt like it was, they were testing it. Let's see how this works out. And it went gangbusters. Everybody was watching it like crazy. And so of course they bring the second season back.

Starting point is 00:49:02 And now the second season brought all the smart people that watched it and go like, oh, well, and I'm sure the producers behind the scenes get involved because they know a lot of those tricks, but they're like, well, it's gonna make for better TV. Of course, it's gonna be more dramatic. Who gives a shout of these people? Of course, of course. They don't give a shit about this.

Starting point is 00:49:21 You know, it's part of what we're starting to witness and fitness is I think part of a larger phenomenon that's starting to happen. And I think it's fueled, you know, actually I'll say with certainty, it's fueled by the ease of access to information. Because you're seeing, I just read an article, article I shared it with you guys on the intellectual

Starting point is 00:49:43 dark web. Articable. Articable. Articable. I did, Adam taught me that. Hey. I believe you're rubbing off. I'm getting this fucking tummy. I'm getting this tummy.

Starting point is 00:49:55 Adam's upstairs. Adam just got out of the bathroom. He's coming downstairs and he's like, I mean, he goes, he didn't, he wasn't being an asshole. And he asked me a question. He goes, Sal, do you think it's possible? Really, he tried to, he, you know, he positioned it like a question. Sal, do you think it's possible?

Starting point is 00:50:10 It was a question. When people hang out together that they start to share each other's microbiome. Like, you know, we're on the same period now. And I know why he's asking, it's because he's got the shits right now. And he thinks it's my fault. He thinks he inherited my fault. It is, dude. I never had a tough,. He thinks he inherited my heart from his dude. I never had a tough, dude, I couldn't even have half of that.

Starting point is 00:50:28 I couldn't have, I wanted that freaking gelato capuchino drink. So bad. That's not giving me too. It's because of my gut bacteria. Oh, dude, sounds so nice. I couldn't even handle half of it, man. I was in the up there, bro. Anyway, what I was gonna say is that,

Starting point is 00:50:44 so that article on the intellectual dark web talks about these, the popularity and the ground swell of support for these controversial truth speaking, and I say truth in quotations, because what I mean by that is these are people who are not afraid to talk about the controversy and to seek out what the objective is.

Starting point is 00:51:05 Yeah, part of the group is there's, they're on opposing sides, right? Oh yeah, there's people who are on the political right, people on the political left, there's people who argue for the existence of God, there's atheists, you know, like Sam Harris is on there, Jordan Peterson's on their Ben Shapiro, there's people on the left,

Starting point is 00:51:21 and they're part of this movement, and the funny and the thing in this article was talking about, the reason why this movement is growing is because in the past, if you attacked these controversial issues and asked questions that were probably unpopular, or at least discussed them, that you wouldn't get any airtime on mainstream TV. Like nobody was going to get you, if your opinion wasn't considered popular,

Starting point is 00:51:48 and even if you made a good point or whatever, you weren't going to get on a talk show, you just weren't because it wasn't popular. But now you've got new media, Joe Rogan and other podcasts and social media that is reaching way more people, and these people have massive following. And I think what's happening is you're feeling this, I'm starting to feel this third, because I'm on the internet a lot and I'm on forums a lot and I've been saying this for a long time now that this truth kind of objective truth movement is starting to grow and people are starting to question common

Starting point is 00:52:20 knowledge and I think it's in good ways in the sense that there's always angry people arguing and yelling or whatever online. But I'm getting more of the like, let's have an intellectual discussion about abortion. That is a very touchy subject, but people are touching subjects like that. Like they were never were before. It's funny at the event last night, I had people coming up to me asking me, they said to me things like, there's so much information online and so much science and so many articles supporting different opinions, like how do I know where to find the right information.

Starting point is 00:52:56 And so what I said to them was I said, okay, here's what you do. Find a good article with maybe some references citing, backing up their argument for a particular controversial topic. Read that article and be open-minded, try to understand the point of view of the article. And then find an article that is equally as well-written with a lot of references that is the opposite, that has the opposite position.

Starting point is 00:53:24 And read both of them and be as open-minded as you possibly can with both sides and then see where you are from there. And I think more people are starting to do that. And you're starting to see now people want more realism. It's good cause they're gonna have to. Yeah. You have to exactly. Yeah, you have to.

Starting point is 00:53:41 You have to. You call it being rational. Well, it's just, it's just, we're moving into this world where We're able to market to people so effectively like it was it's never been like this dude Yeah, I mean it's just like you're mentioning like how you know Mike's following you around all over the place like You can't get you I sometimes I trip out like I like did I search this or did I just say it out loud And it and all said now it's being marketed to me like I see shit like search this or did I just say it out loud and it and all said now it's being marketed to me like I see shit like that I'm like damn dude like so

Starting point is 00:54:09 because of that we're going to be getting a lot of bias information the shit that you're always liking the shit you're always looking at all time so it's going to be rare you get fed something that is the the counter to your beliefs so it's going to become necessary that you seek out opposing views. Well, here's the best part. The best part of it is that marketing, like all industries, because of technology, is becoming massively decentralized.

Starting point is 00:54:36 And what I mean by that is of course, there are companies that market that have a lot of power. However, consumers, and I talk about, when I talk about consumers, I don't just mean buying products. I mean, consuming everything you consume, information, products, opinions, whatever social media, anything that you consume. Consumers are looking more towards the opinions of average regular people than they are now versus marketers. And what I mean by that is, for example, we'll talk about the supplement industry because that's fitness ratings and reviews. Rating reviews. It's so powerful

Starting point is 00:55:10 Read an article how often do you now read the comments to that article every fucking time almost every time You read it. I do I always read an article and I read the comments. I want to hear what other people have to say About that article because you pick your movies that way, right? You do see how you used to just sell it with sex or somebody that was smoking hot and then they're holding whatever product it was. And now it's like, well, what does the product do? Who's used it? How can I trust this product?

Starting point is 00:55:43 And I feel like that's such a great direction that we're going. That sort of change I'm excited about. Yeah. What we're seeing now more is you're starting to... Again, supplements. In the past, the way I would recommend supplements to people is I'd say, go with the reputable brand. What the fuck does that mean? Oh Oh brands that have been around a while that seem to be big. Right, that market really well. Yeah, right?

Starting point is 00:56:09 Terrible advice. You know what people do now? Is they go on Amazon or whatever, and they look at the ratings and then they read the reviews and they don't give a fuck what the brand is. Anymore with supplements. That's how I tend to purchase things now. If I want to get a fucking new tool,

Starting point is 00:56:23 if I want to get something for my car or something for the house, I don't really care about the brand. Remember how far back that you can rethink of an example that like I remember for example when like Kia hit the market over here. And I remember thinking like what a fucking ugly ass card. You know, like, want to be Mercedes like, I just, I just, I, I laughed at the, I remember the first year, like hit the market over here. And I remember not being a fan at all. But I also remember, you know, after it had been here for five, 10 years, and it had been around for a while, all of a sudden, and they, all their cars came with a guarantee, I believe they're one of the first to do the 100,000 mile guarantee on their vehicles.

Starting point is 00:57:04 And their vehicles were super cheap in comparison to Yes, yes, yes, yes, built well and super cheap and they just outperform the next thing you knew that their reviews were smashing all the cars, dude, and now they're they're They're top, dude. Okay, so the number one thing in business forever forever any more any business owner will tell you this any marketable Tell you even if you go back a hundred years, okay? The number one thing is word of mouth. Always. There's nothing more powerful than word of mouth. And what technology is done is take word of mouth and put it on fucking super steroids. That's all it's done. Now you have word of mouth, but you have a lot of people that you can hear. These are huge pool of individuals who are giving things ratings and reviews. And it's creating systems like Uber, Airbnb,

Starting point is 00:57:47 and all these other businesses where you don't need anything else. I don't give a fuck what rating the restaurant, you know when you go in the restaurant, you see that stupid, this gets an A from the city. Nobody can do you give a fuck about that? The better business be around. Nobody gives a shit about that. I'm gonna look at Yelp.

Starting point is 00:58:01 You know what I mean? I'm gonna look and see how many people have eaten here. The other part of that is it's also revealing just how bullshit, you know, everything was for a long time. Mainstream media was so influenced by special interests. I'll tell you, I went to Jordan Peterson's talk to the night. I don't think I've talked about this on the podcast.

Starting point is 00:58:18 I went to his talk in San Francisco and it was a great talk. Pack house that was at the Masonic in San Francisco. He's basically good. This is the talk where he goes over each chapter of the book, right? He goes over, he actually only went over eight chapters. And you know, Jordan, one thing I like about Jordan Peterson is, every time he talks, he goes off on different tangents. So you're not hearing the same stuff. So I hear different stories.

Starting point is 00:58:41 That's cool. He's such an incredible communicator. I'm learning a lot by observing how. He's such an incredible communicator. I'm learning a lot by observing how he talks and how he communicates things that's influencing me in the way I talk and communicate. But here's something that was fascinating. So I'm, you know, I'm always embroiled in the political spheres and people's opinions and, you know, how the mainstream media tries to sway opinion. And I know it's bullshit. I know when I look at Fox News and MSNBC

Starting point is 00:59:05 and they'll cover the same fucking subject, completely from two different viewpoints and skew it totally different. I know this one's paid by these people and this one's paid by these people. Like I know all that, right? But sometimes it's really scary when it's right in front of your face.

Starting point is 00:59:19 And what the mainstream media has been saying about Jordan Peterson is that he's, you know, all right, angry white he's you know all right angry white males you know it like the like fascism like completely false um... things that they're saying about and i know they're completely false that i've listened to so many of his lectures and read his books and if you was any of those things i would hate the guy and he's not

Starting point is 00:59:39 so i show up and i'm in line and there's a huge crowd of people and i'm looking around and the audience is fully 50% women if not more maybe even 60% women. So that was bullshit. Yeah, I'm looking around and I'm like, okay I'm looking for let's pay attention to the the races of the people and we all white no it was like Probably half or more minorities in the audience than than white people it was so opposite of the way that they painted him,

Starting point is 01:00:06 and I'm not doing this to blow smoke up as asked or to say I'm a huge fan or whatever. All I'm saying was it was scary. It was scary because all these articles that have been reading in the mainstream old media were so blatantly false and bullshit that it just goes to show you how the decentralizing of things. Boy, it's going to start revealing quite a bit. And that's just part of it.

Starting point is 01:00:27 You know, it's happening and fitness, it's happening and politics is happening and it reminds me of the curtain being open and the Wizard of Oz, they look and it's just this fucking little old guy. He projects himself with his big green head. I'm like, God to you. You know, you're just a little fucking old guy. Yeah. It's crazy. He projects himself as this big green head. I'm like, God to you. You know, you're just a little fucking old guy. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:48 It's crazy. I'm not going to believe this shit anymore. Yeah. It's crazy and it's scary. It's scary, but it's scary only because it's like when you, you know, when you have some fears and you're like, oh, this is how it is. But then you actually see it and you're like, oh shit. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:01 I don't think it's scary because I think we, we, like, again, we always tend to tend to you know flirt with the boundaries and then enough people get burned or doesn't go out Doesn't go well and then we come back through the direction and I think though I think the swings over over evolution. I think I think over time. I think I've been Less and less like the how drastic they are like I think as we continue to evolve, we get smarter and smarter, although we still won't push boundaries and we still will get a little crazy, but I don't think it's going to get. I've never had that like chicken little type of mentality where the sky is falling and like, oh my god, I'm going to have to go by property somewhere else and hold up and bury my guns and do all these. You know not a prepper. Yeah, you know, saying, line calendars.

Starting point is 01:01:45 Yeah, I just, I just, I just all subscribe to that. I think because we are, we, we live now in the society where we're all connected so closely and so easily can communicate, I don't think as a nation we would ever allow that

Starting point is 01:01:57 so we become like so bad. So I'm not afraid that something terrible is going to happen. What, here's what, what I mean by scary, I don't mean like I'm scared. I mean scary in the sense that it's crazy how false things were or are.

Starting point is 01:02:14 And it's crazy at how when things really start to get decentralized, how much that facade's gonna fall apart and how it's gonna be scary in the sense that a lot of people are gonna be shocked. You know what I mean? It's all gonna dissolve. A lot of people are over it. You know?

Starting point is 01:02:31 That's why truth and honesty is just piercing through all this shit. They can't stop it. Yep. Yep. Because everybody can communicate on a level they've never been able to before. That's right. You know, here's a thing. If you have, if people just respect each other in the sense that they respect that each person's an individual and Everybody's gonna have an opinion and so long as you don't hurt me and steal from me

Starting point is 01:02:54 You can have your opinion and we can talk and discuss these opinions But I know you're not gonna hurt me because we already talked about that. You're not gonna steal from me So although we totally disagree the common ground that we have is that we understand that we don't hurt anybody and we don't steal from anybody. Boy, that's a great way to have discussions. That's a great, and you can talk about anything. We can talk about the most controversial shit in the world. You could believe in a horrible, horrible shit, but so long as I know you're not trying

Starting point is 01:03:21 to hurt anybody or steal from anybody, it's all good. And it's exciting Yeah, good stuff. We have when when is uh, when's the mere event Taylor next Friday the 18th So where's that Seattle see that's a isn't that your hometown? That's a dog's hometown Now you said this girl this event has Hey, can you say it like that, Taylor? No, I hate you, Carol. Say it like that. Hey, come back. He's so smooth.

Starting point is 01:03:49 He's so swammo. I can't. I'm sorry. I can't do it. I can't. I can't. I can't do it. I feel like if like I'm close to you and you're talking like shills, I mean, I hear we'll stand up. Have you been now, Taylor, when you were up and say, how did you actually go to the mirror? Oh, so you've been in the flagships. So you've been in the location.

Starting point is 01:04:08 It's really cool. Is it? Yeah. Is it bigger than the event we did tonight? Yes. Oh, OK. Wow. So it's even bigger space.

Starting point is 01:04:16 That's going to be cool. I can't wait, man. I know. That last one was fun. That's going to be fun. Now, you described it like it's sounding like when you told me. It's almost like this bar coffee shop type of look lounge where they serve coffee beer Come Bucha. Yeah, so I think during the day it's part like cafe community space. It's also a retail space and then they do community events out of it too.

Starting point is 01:04:37 So what we're going to do we're going to do what's different about this event than the one we did yesterday is we're going to do an actual podcast interview. Okay. So that's right. So interview, which is a little different. And then we'll transition to the live qua, which is going to be really fun. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:58 Is it filled? Is it filled up yet? Or are people able to still sign up for it? I think we should pack this one out. I think so. Keep going. Let's break the fire. Where do people go, dog? I keep forgetting. Where do people go to get sign up for it. I think we should pack this one out. So keep going. Let's break the fire. Where do people go, Doug? I keep forgetting, where do people go to get signed up on this one?

Starting point is 01:05:08 Go to mindpumpmedia.com-forge-lash-tour. But make sure you put www at the beginning. Because that link will not take you there. If you don't do that. So www.mindpumpmedia-forge-tour.com dot com media.com. dot com. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:24 Forge-tour. It's also on the show notes too. So we can use that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. pump media forward slash tour dot com media dot com dot com yeah forward slash tour it's also on the show notes too so we got you that's what's that out probably the easiest way for people what do you say we answer some questions yeah we could do that oh yeah mmm yeah yeah yeah seeing that this show is already late all right so we have actually what do you mean this show is supposed to air tonight yeah oh yeah I just got to edit this thing we can we kept you guys waiting yeah it's to be so worth it. Edge of your seat. This quads brought to you by Organify.

Starting point is 01:05:49 For those days, you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition. Organify fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health the performance the added edge. Try Organify totally risk-free for 60 days by going to organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com and use a coupon code MindPump for 20% off at checkout.

Starting point is 01:06:14 Alright, our first question is from Rebecca.ubs. If you want to compete in both bodybuilding and powerlifting, does it matter what you do first? Oh, that should ask Ben Pollock about that. That's really it. Did you pick that? Of course. You know why I picked this question? I know why you did, because we were just looking at Ben Pollock's picture and we were discussing how impressive,

Starting point is 01:06:36 how unique his physique looks for somebody who's never competed for bodybuilding before and how impressive he is. There is this strange, there's no science. We've talked about this on the show. This is pure speculation. And I 100% agree with you. I have nothing to back it up.

Starting point is 01:06:51 Yeah, there's no science. I have nothing but my own experience. And what I've seen, what I've seen in clients that I've trained, what I've seen in my own body, but I can't put words to it because it doesn't fully make sense to me. Yeah, when you train with really heavy fucking weight when you train for maximal strength It's a different look for years, okay, you do it for years and then you get shredded

Starting point is 01:07:14 You get this hard Granite grainy yeah look to your body. It's this very hard grainy to your body. It's this very hard grainy, great input, great input. He just salved you, bro. He just sports, he just sports that if you're right there, dude. I did. I did. How many more, you just cherry picked, you just cherry picked. That was so good. Oh, you're gonna go, we're gonna go with like dry, dude, no, you just see him go. I'm kinda good at this. See him in a couple weeks, you know, just wait for him to. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:46 But hey, it's true, dude. Look, embody building. It's sharpening up. In bodybuilding, you had guys like, like, Doreen Yates, who trained insanely heavy for a long time. You had people like Ronnie Coleman. Back in the day, people like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Franco Colombo, talked about the importance

Starting point is 01:08:04 of heavy, heavy strength training to give you that granite kind of hard look. I train, I always veer more towards, and sometimes to my detriment towards heavy training. I enjoy really, really heavy maximal strength type training. And when I got myself shredded for maps and a ball, because before we, before Doug and I put maps and a ball, we wanted to get some pictures of me that would be kind of marketable. And I'm not a very big guy, so I said, okay, one of the things I can do to kind of set myself apart is just get shredded.

Starting point is 01:08:37 So that's what I did. And I was, it was kind of cool to see my body shredded because I have, I got this really hard, grainy look to my physique and I think it's because I always trained really, really heavy and it gives that kind of look. And again, there's no science to support this, but I've seen this in people. I even hate using the word grainy

Starting point is 01:08:56 because I feel it's, it's, it's, it's just not a lot of adjectives to pull from though. You know, it's a dish right? It looks exactly what that looks like. What do they look like? It's harder edges, right? It's harder edges to muscle. The skin almost looks, it looks thin.

Starting point is 01:09:09 It looks, the muscles just look very, it just looks like you can move shit. You know, like you can work like you move shit. You know, like that's way more effective. Listen, you know, one's looking like a bunch of fucking balloons and they're all like filled with oil and shit, you know? Well, the point of, you know, circling back to the actual question, like, which one do we think is more important? Real technical.

Starting point is 01:09:33 Here, this is what I think. I think that most bodybuilders do not do enough strength training. Like, maximal strength. Yeah, yes. And I think that they would greatly benefit through running more of it in the routine. I don't think it matters so much. I at least I don't think it's going to make that big of a difference to strength train or power lift first and then get into bodybuilding or vice versa. I just think well, which one do you think? Let's say you're equally, this is a good question now. If let's say you're equally interested in both. Both powerlifting and like I really want to do well in both of them, so I'm gonna compete in both of them.

Starting point is 01:10:08 Or I'm gonna, it's gonna, I'm gonna put you both on. I'm gonna put you both on. Billy, the strengths to have labor carry over. That's what I was doing. Doing that first is your foundation. I mean Arnold did that, right? He was a powerlifter or Olympic lifter going

Starting point is 01:10:20 into bodybuilding later on, but you just had that base of strength. Yeah. And then just kind of built in isolated areas. Yeah. No, it's almost to actually, it's not even close to baby, because you're going to get just the CNS training, you're going to get from string training and lifting power lifting like that compared to hypertrophy training.

Starting point is 01:10:36 And you have to learn function, like mobility of more when you train powerlifting than you do with bodybuilding. Yes. You also have to break bad habits if you start with bodybuilding and then go to power. Right. Whereas if you will go from powerlifting to bodybuilding, there's no real bad habits to break. I mean, you have to kind of start to learn to feel muscles more than just doing movement. So that's a bit of a learning curve for power. That happened to me. I mean, when I told, I was competing.

Starting point is 01:11:00 Yeah. Talk about the change in your physique because you were competing bodybuilding style for years and years and years and achieved success doing so you looked phenomenal But then we all started mind pump and then you got on this kick of just getting strong and your body changed I saw it there was there's a picture you posted a back Before and after oh yeah, it was a big difference that well that was the big game changer was my back And that was the one that fucking blew me away where I was like holy shit. I've shared stories on the podcast before the how the strength change the change in strength. I saw big time like the CD row that I've been doing for 10 years of my life consistently in my routine that I maybe pull 180 pounds or so all of a sudden I'm ripping 300 like it's light like that was like holy shit like to feel myself jump

Starting point is 01:11:46 I mean to fill yourself jump like that over a in a years time when for 10 years of of training I didn't I incrementally went up for years and years so yeah I saw the for sure strength and then when I saw when you peeled down Yeah, when I leaned all the way out I saw how thick my back had gotten my back had gotten it and again Here's another here's a bro term for you. It get that it got that 3d look and Yeah, cuz you were white you're already white. Yeah, I'm a tall guy and I have broad shoulders and I have a very narrow way So I already have the natural v-taper look and a lot of guys Well if they do a lot of lap pull downs and they do seat a row all day long,

Starting point is 01:12:25 they tend to develop this nice wings, but they look kind of like a pancake and they look flat. And somebody who deadlifts, I can always tell somebody who deadlifts 400 pounds plus. You could just, if you're pulling 400 plus pounds off the ground, like you just, you've got to have a thick back. You got those columns. Yeah, you've got those center columns and you have a thickness to your back, which gives the quote unquote 3D look that people talk about.

Starting point is 01:12:48 But to me, that's the definition of that. That makes the most sense to me when someone, when you hear that bro word of, oh yeah, his back looks 3D, you know, like, what does that mean? And the funny thing too is, as being in fitness as long as we have, I can tell, even if they look similar, even if the people look similar in terms of body fat,

Starting point is 01:13:07 percentage, both lean, both maybe aesthetic, I can almost tell when I look at people like, oh, that guy's, that guy, like, he trains a lot for strength and performance, and that guy over there kind of just trains for aesthetic, you can almost tell in their physics. Well, especially in the movement patterns. Well, you can really tell in the, in their physics. Well, especially in the, I mean, movement patterns, we can really tell in the extreme versions of both categories.

Starting point is 01:13:28 I mean, look at your, your top level men's physique guy and look at your top level powerlifter guy and it's like they are very, very different looking. No, I'm talking about even when they're both lean, you can almost tell. No, I'm, it's been, I mean, look at Ben Paul. Yeah, sure. Look at Ben Paul. He looks strong. Yeah, yeah. No, he's a, because he's not, that's, he, that picture, I mean look at bin Paul. Yeah, sure look at bin Paul. He's strong. Yeah Yeah, no, he's a yeah cuz he's not that's he that picture I don't know if you read the caption he's not getting ready for a good. He's getting ready to power lift

Starting point is 01:13:51 Yeah, he's still competing in powerlifting. Yeah, he's feeling down. Yeah, that's what's crazy Yeah, he's not even trying to get on stage I'm gonna speculate a little bit on why this may be happening again. There's no scientific There's no science to support this. This is pure speculation, but and it's I'm not the speculate a little bit on why this may be happening. Again, there's no scientific, there's no science to support this. This is pure speculation, but I'm not the only one speculating this. This has been speculated for decades by bodybuilders and strength athletes for a long time. Here's what I think that's happening. I think the nature of bodybuilding encourages more of that circle plasmic hypertrophy,

Starting point is 01:14:24 more of that fluid within muscle, which gives the muscle a different look than strength training, which may not increase, increase the sarcoplasm as much, but increases muscle fiber thickness more. And I don't know how you would prove this. I don't know if you'd have to biopsy muscles or whatever to figure this out,

Starting point is 01:14:42 but it almost seems like it looks that way, right? Like someone who lifts heavy for a long period of time for years or decades and then they get shredded, it's almost like they have more muscle fiber, less fluid. And then the guys that do the bodybuilder type routines for long periods of time and focus on getting the pump. When he explains that to you, does that make any sense to you at all? Mm.

Starting point is 01:15:03 Being honest. Maybe. Yeah, a little bit. Okay, I just want to- I'm following. Okay, I just want to- Like, one may look more like a balloon that's bubbly and shapely, and the other one may look more like a piece of concrete that was carved in that particular shape. Does that kind of make sense?

Starting point is 01:15:16 I bet if I saw pictures, maybe that would have been- Well, so, I mean, if you just take it down to like something that has a little bit of fluid versus something that's pretty much just like- Mollle and- Skins. To that point, something that I a little bit of fluid versus something that's pretty much just like mull and skin to that point. Something that I that's my speculation. No, to that point, something that I noticed big time in my physique after I got into strength training after the competing thing was when I would compete and I see this a lot when in my peers is you look super impressive when you're pumped up. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:45 Good point. I would get aired up and I would, and I actually did not post pictures of myself aired up because I was like, if someone sees me in real life, they're gonna be like, what happened to you? Because I looked like I put 30 pounds on. I drink a gallon of water.

Starting point is 01:15:59 I'm just like that. I got a gallon of water. I got 300, 400 grams of carbs inside of me. I'm fucking pumping the blood in there. High reps, like crazy and all of them. I got three, 400 grams of carbs inside of me. I'm fucking pumping the blood in their high reps like crazy and all of them. I mean, I look I literally I'm already a six foot three two hundred thirty pound guy like I look 260 and so you know, I would but then I also would shrink all the way back down when you when the pump would go away Yeah, when the pump would go away I would deflate all the way down and I would and in my head

Starting point is 01:16:23 I would always but man I want more of that. Look, I feel like I don't look anywhere near what I look like, I'll pumped up. Well, when I started strength training way more, what I noticed was I didn't get that crazy same massive pump as I did before, but I walked around buffer-looking.

Starting point is 01:16:40 Yeah, you're gonna get lasted longer. Yeah, yeah, no, I didn't need to be inflated to still look like I trained and I lifted. I relied, I feel a lot on the pump to give me the look that I wanted all the time. I always chasing the pump. So I think a lot of the guys, the end girls that stay in the 10 to 15 to 20 rep range and the super setting and the low rest periods all the time. And they're constantly chasing that hypertrophy to that feeling of pumping up the muscles. And they're not heavy, strength training, one to two reps.

Starting point is 01:17:13 And you think that's why they really do detour from strength training sometimes. Because they don't get the same kind of feel. Of course. I don't like this. I don't bring back that's what that's what would change that's what changed me for many years. So I would I would it's not like I talk about on the show how I never train like below six reps and I never did. But every once in a while, I would creep down to like five or six reps.

Starting point is 01:17:37 But even then like I remember like never staying there very long because of that exact reason. Yeah, the pump. The pumps were terrible. Yeah, I was never as when I hit 15 or 10 15, 15 reps, super setting, so that, I felt amazing. And it fed that part of me that I was like, oh, I feel good, but it was artificially. It was artificially blood and fluid pumped in there. I wasn't really getting more muskets. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:59 You hardly ever get a pump with when you do proper, you know, heavy weight. All of men's physique guys are stuck in this. I'm calling all you fools out. They don't know this. Like, I'm serious. Like, you're gonna do a work so many of these dudes that I would see them show after, that's why they all look so many of them look the same.

Starting point is 01:18:19 And what's funny, what body part, what one body part wins competitions, physique and bodybuilding. You're back. You're back. What's the one body part what one body part wins competitions physique and bodybuilding your back Yeah, what's the one body part you pretty much can't fully fucking develop unless you train for strength You're back. Yeah, it's very difficult to do so and that's what that's the big difference is that in that body part There's other body parts too that you can tell when somebody Strength trains versus when someone you you know, someone doesn't. Yeah, core, like a thick core hands, forearms neck sometimes.

Starting point is 01:18:49 Like a brick. Yeah, I can always tell when I see a buff dude with a thick neck, I can tell like, okay, they don't just lift weights in the gym, they do some other shit, you know, but true, it's the back. Like, it's hard to develop a really impressive like like competition winning back without doing heavy fucking shit. Yeah, you know, there's a caveats to that too, is that this, you know, when you train low repetitions, that also, I think there's more reward, but there's also more risks. Well, oh yeah. So that was another thing that I noticed. I started chasing the, once I saw

Starting point is 01:19:21 the benefits, my body was getting from the low reps. I'll cut up in it. Oh, yeah. I was like, man, I also started training this one to three rep range because the gains were coming on. And for a guy who's been lifting for 15 years to see gains kind of coming on like that, I was like, whoa, I want to keep doing this. And of course, I kept doing it. And then now I'll send I get all these nagging pains.

Starting point is 01:19:41 Oh, now my joints start hurting. And now I have these, my back is hella tight. And my my hips are tight and I start to feel that because I'm not then I'm not doing the things to balance myself out and counter all that that heavy lifting that I'm doing. So, you know, you got it, you that's and that is the importance of why all the programs are phased the way they are is they're and then they we tell people on the show and on our formal times to have flexibility, you know, maybe you stretch a phase out for four weeks or whatever or maybe you cut a phase short to two weeks and you're on in the next, that's that's fine and to each their own.

Starting point is 01:20:12 Bodybuilding style workouts definitely definitely more conducive to longevity than heavy fucking strength based workouts. I mean that's true. Like constantly pushing yourself for one to three reps Boy, you have to have perfect taxing perfect mobility and perfect movement. Yes to be able to do that for a long time Yes, otherwise you're gonna hurt yourself. Yes, you'll hurt yourself And that's why too I think that I think if you I think we all agree right strength training would be the by far more But start with the start with and then go into body

Starting point is 01:20:46 Next questions from John Alva 7. For online training coaching, what are your thoughts about high ticket coaching? Do you feel as better route for us trainers wanting to go into the online world? Or is low ticket better, focusing on volume to help more people? I never think that low ticket is a good idea, especially something that requires your time.

Starting point is 01:21:08 If it's your time, by you doing that, and it's always a value and price thing. If you're having a hard time charging people X amount of dollars, then your service isn't valued at that. I think it's a volume thing too. It's two business models, right? It's the low volume high price model versus the high volume low price model. Now, here's a trade off. The trade off is this. Typically, what do you get from a low volume high price model?

Starting point is 01:21:43 You're not even really in the fitness industry except for our podcast, right Taylor? This is true for all businesses. What do you typically get when people pay a lot of money, but there's less volume? Better quality, right? Much better quality, better service. Now the opposite that the trade off is you need, you don't get a lot. You can't have tons of customers. You just can't do that. you need, you don't get a lot, you can't have tons of customers. You just can't do that. So you can go the low cost, high volume route, but understand that you're going to be sacrificing quality. I don't care how good your fucking systems are. It's just the quality will have to decrease a little bit.

Starting point is 01:22:16 You're also dealing with certain type of customer at that price point. That's true too. That's a great point. You want to, what kind of customers do you want to attract? You know, you know, you're lasting, you want, I remember that being a trainer and working my way up from being somebody who was, you know, charging $50 an hour all the way up to where we were charging $150 an hour and each incremental step along the way. And as my rate would increase, I realized I started to attract the better client and the better customer because they valued my time that way

Starting point is 01:22:46 It's like I I realized really and now it's like if I was you know Obviously, I don't train anymore, but if I'm talking to a client about my it's a very easy conversation like I value my time And I know that I provide that much value for your life So it's not even like a thing to be debating. And you also got to think the scalability of what some of these online coaches are doing. I see it a lot, like the model is right now to go low. And- Have high volume.

Starting point is 01:23:15 Yeah, and just because you can reach so many people on social media. And you're gonna, I mean, it's impossible to give a great, you know, one-on-one type of service to somebody for super cheap. It's not scalable. Or with tons and tons of volume. Yeah, it's just not as simple.

Starting point is 01:23:30 I mean, if you're going to go that route, if you want to go the high volume route, then figure out how to design really nice, you know, well-programmed programs and workouts like we do, and design them in a way that's going to hit most people or be effective for most people and then do it that way. But to try to offer coaching that's high volume. It takes away from the coaching aspect, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah, I'm always a quality guy and that that's what led me into the direction of like charging premiums, you know, and like, what does that look like? What kind of value can I add to, you you know like make it match what I'm asking From my client and like that was like my entire business model and I and I honestly if I was to go back

Starting point is 01:24:14 I would do it all over again because there's it's such a differentiating Approach than everybody else is always like trying for the price war or trying to be You know cheap and and get things to the masses. But you're just going to attract a lot of people that are really serious about it. And they're just going to kind of sluff it off because it doesn't hold the value of something that actually you're asking them to really be committed in a sense by paying that kind of a money. And so, yeah, you can get to a point two where you really just kind of construct what that perfect client looks like for you. And then you can draw, they literally draw that up to the very details of what you want

Starting point is 01:25:00 them to look like. And it literally, you get better at marketing to that person and then it becomes reality. Yeah. I mean, I just, and if you're going to go the low, the low cost high volume route coaching, just be honest with people and tell them, hey, I have a lot of clients. I have this many people I work with. This is what I provide.

Starting point is 01:25:17 And it's not like the, not like I'm coaching you one on one and just be honest. And I'm sure people will see value. And, you know, I remember when the chiropractor industry started doing this. There was a second there where there became this method of applying chiropractic care, and there was a term for it. I don't remember what it was where a chiropractor would have five beds in a room.

Starting point is 01:25:41 Do you guys remember this? You went to chiropractor a lot, right? No, they switched. They switched you all by the every every 15 minutes remember that there was like all of a sudden It made a switch where you go to chiropractor before you like stem machine massage and then they just go Yeah, yeah, it was one it used to be one-on-one you go in an office or whatever and then all of a sudden you go in and there's like Seven beds and there's other people laying down next to you and you'd go from one to the next to the next to the next Okay, hold this stretch for the next five minutes. I'll be right back and he goes the next day And I don't remember what there was it was there a name for this method or I don't know

Starting point is 01:26:12 I think there's a number of different Modalities practicing chiropractic but some of them were very speed-oriented yes And others are spent a lot more time with people and they would spent they would sell it They would actually do courses and teach chiropractors how to do this in order to turn their businesses into profitable ones. And so that's always kind of the trade off. And I don't know, maybe because we're purest in fitness,

Starting point is 01:26:35 and it's like, if you're gonna coach people, like coach them, you know what I mean? Or maybe it's the guilt, maybe. That's a good point. Maybe for so many years, I mean, to a good point. You know, maybe maybe for so many years. I mean to good point, you know We probably chased the dollar ourselves and for so many years we we were probably giving awful advice Even if we didn't know better or not, but that's enough to make me feel guilty and feel like do you think that there was a level of Willful ignorance for a short period of time before you switch turn the corner. Sure.

Starting point is 01:27:05 Absolutely. Like you said, the group training experience the same thing. I just knew that when I was group training, I wasn't being myself to the level of like, I know I'm helping this person. Like I was just trying to make it like I'm not hurting anybody here. You know, like that was my goal. You know, like everybody's doing a million things in different directions and, you know,

Starting point is 01:27:29 you just try and staff it accordingly, but it's just not as effective as it could be. Did I ever tell you so I lit it so my entire fitness career, I either train clients or manage trainers or gems, right? And then I had my wellness studio where I had clients and the longest stint I had with group training was probably, I think it was maybe a grand total of three months. So I did a circuit training class where people could show up and they'd pay a much lower rate, you know, for coaching because

Starting point is 01:28:00 there's 10 people in a class and I'd set up a circuit for them and they'd go from, you know, exercise to exercise and that people in a class and I'd set up a circuit for them and they'd go from you know exercise to exercise and and that was it and I only did three months because I fucking hated it I couldn't stand it it was hard for me to It was hard for me to continue doing it knowing that it was bullshit and people are just gonna sweat and they're not gonna progress It was very difficult thing for me and when I don't when I don't like something It's hard for me to fake it and so I wasn't good at it and so it wasn't very popular inside a shutdown But there was one moment my god. This is so funny probably the third class one of the exercises that I had was You have this medicine ball the bouncy ones the ones that you can bounce on the floor and they'll go up to high and the exercise was

Starting point is 01:28:37 I Bounce the medicine ball and your job was to chase it and catch it before it landed. Okay, so this was the exercise was like a sprint So this lady who was probably 45, oh my God. Who, you know, she worked out, so she looked fit, but she never ran. She's gonna be all bad. She never ran.

Starting point is 01:28:57 Nobody ever, who the fuck runs nowadays? Anyway, you know what I mean? Like, you don't run unless you're being chased by something. So for class starts, I balanced the medicine ball, she goes to take off and she fucking trips, and I saw my, I saw like liability waivers, I saw everything like, what did she sign? Yeah, she started going forward,

Starting point is 01:29:16 and I don't know, I think it was an act of God or something, she caught herself with her foot and then kept running, but I just saw teeth like flying everywhere. I envisioned the whole thing, scared the fuck out of me. I saw somebody running in the pool, yeah, we're in a boot camp adjacent to like when I was training somebody at this gym,

Starting point is 01:29:32 they're doing it outside and I just saw this guy doing a lot of just basic speed ladder drill stuff, right? But he was unmanaged and he caught his foot on the back of his other foot, the back of his ankle, and literally just fell right on his face and gets up and he just, errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I was like, oh my God, it's a lot of blood. You know what I'm just getting on call 911. And like, you're just sitting down, like trying not to like, oh my God. I do want to say that if I were to do like a boot camp

Starting point is 01:30:14 or do something like this, if I'm in Jonathan's position, I know Jonathan right too, I actually would run these boot camp type classes, or I would structure them, you know, as far as business model wise, like the boot camps, but the class that I would teach would be like a mix of FRC and Eldella. And this is what I do right now on Saturdays

Starting point is 01:30:38 for the couples that I've had in my life as clients of mine for 10, 15 years. And when I no longer had time to train them or do, we've maintained relationships and Saturday mornings when I'm in town. A lot of times we're traveling so I don't get to do this. But Saturday mornings I get up and I teach this class

Starting point is 01:31:00 and it's free. I don't charge them for any of this my way of kind of giving back, probably again, the guilt thing. And so in our penance. Right. No, I do. I feel I feel I owe it to some people and I feel like I'm actually really impacting their lives. And I remember so this is what's kind of neat about this group of people that I have is they were part of my boot camps way back when when I was fucking battle open home and running through ladders and run and let you know fucking stairs and all that shit right and i remember that um i remember thinking like man that most of them there's not any i don't think one of them is younger than 50 so these are like 50 to 65 plus

Starting point is 01:31:38 uh your old and a lot of couples and you know i remember like all of them you know looking at all their posture their mechanics and I knew it was terrible I'm going like Jesus like all what you know what they really need to be doing is just like corrective stretching all night long right the whole time. It wasn't until we started to really dive into FRC and Eldo and those type of things that I really start to implement that and you know I can see that because you have hold a position yeah I teach us go from station to station Yeah, that's all we do I teach a one hour class and it's a it's a mix of it's a mix of animal flow El Doa and FRC all built into one and I do it with them I take them through it and I

Starting point is 01:32:18 Part of it is selfish to so it's a way for me to get back and it's also, it gets me up on a Saturday when I would probably sleep. Yes, to do all this mobility stuff. So I'm sure there's a little bit of selfish film up there too. And so I get an opportunity to... How can I motivate myself to do mobility right? Right, right. But if I was Jonathan, I would, for sure invest in FRC, I would invest in Eldo. I think they're ahead of the curve with, and I think where we're

Starting point is 01:32:47 going in this eye generation and with the phones and the laptops and so on. This type of stuff is going to be extremely important to teach people. So I would start to be way ahead of people and start creating these classes that you teach this in. And I think that would provide incredible value. I think you could feel good about putting people in a class setting in it and not feeling like you're just taking their money to make them sweat and lose five pounds and gain five pounds and lose five pounds. And then I would take the coaching concept

Starting point is 01:33:18 that you're doing virtually. I would start low, just like I did. I started at what low I thought was $200, a client a month for coaching. And with that, they got to talk to me daily and they got diet, they got feedback from me. And each time I added a new client, I added value to what I was doing.

Starting point is 01:33:38 And I would learn off of what I did the previous month, like what did that client feel? Like they received from me, how could I have made this better? And then also more efficient, because I am scaling a business. And every time I added a client, I upped my price by $25. And I kept doing that until I got up to $500. And then by that time, my bump was often running

Starting point is 01:33:57 and I never had to do it again. But if I were to be, if I was in your shoes knowing where you're at in your life right now, that would be my advice on handling the online coaching and how I would scale the pricing. And I would create more value and try and spend less time or have less people and more value for them. And then teach classes to where you could have 10, 15, 20 people in there that you charge a monthly fee to be able to do classes like that.

Starting point is 01:34:25 Next question is from Joe Pushner. Do you all feel the victim mentality is on the rise in society? Oh God. If so, how do we effectively begin to deal with it in ourselves and others? The victim mentality is for sure on the rise. For sure it's on the rise. Is it? Are we more aware of it now? Oh no. I think it's more on the rise. For sure it's on the rise. Is it early more aware of it now? Oh no, I think it's more on the rise. And here's why I think it's more on the rise because life is a lot fucking easier. I think life is easier.

Starting point is 01:34:54 Kids are born with more opportunities and things and stuff. And they don't have to work as hard for things. It's actually create challenging scenarios. And so when they don't get what they want. for things. You have to actually create challenging scenarios. And so when they don't get what they want, they enter the rise of Spartan. Right, you know what I'm saying? Like, with things are so easy in our society and life now, we have invented a race that punishes you for fucking two hours.

Starting point is 01:35:18 You haven't been dirty your whole life. Right, and not only that, but we're gonna charge you. Yeah. And we're gonna make but we're going to charge you. Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to make a fuck ton of money on that. It's brilliant. Right. Fucking brilliant. It really is. I mean, that's why I love Joe so much. Like Joe's a fucking gangster for seeing that how early he saw it and then sticking through it, dumping millions of dollars into it when he wasn't making money and continuing to push through to see that vision. And let me tell you, he's fucking on a ride now. He's gonna be on a ride for a while.

Starting point is 01:35:49 It's perfect timing. It's something like that. It's so needed. I mean, people just, I mean, they're seeking the irony is how many people actually know why it's so fulfilling for them. They don't, they don't, they don't, they don't. They're drawn to it. They're drawn to it naturally. Because we need it. Because I know I have a lot of friends that have done it and love it and talk all great about it But if you ask them like why oh, it's just cool it challenges you It's that you know I'm saying that and they talk like that But they they're not really connecting why that why that is for them a lot of people don't dive deep enough into that They just they're drawn to it if it feels something it feeds something that's an inner desire that we all need and want and

Starting point is 01:36:24 Then they so they do it would mean while it feeds something that's an inner desire that we all need and want. And then they, so they do it. Would, meanwhile, it's like, that should give you a sign. Well, look, it's so pervasive and insidious to, and easy, it's so easy to blame all your failures on things that you can't control because you can't control them. So it's not your fault. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:36:42 Like, the reason why I didn't get that job, or I'm not successful, the reason why I didn't get that job or I'm not successful The reason why I didn't do so well is because I don't know my gender my race I grew up poor. I was born in difficult situations or whatever all things that you have no control over because it removes responsibility From you now here's what happens when you take when you when you remove Responsibility from you when you eliminate that from your From your from the way you think about things you also disempower yourself

Starting point is 01:37:11 When everything is a result of things you can't control Then that means you control nothing that means you have no power It's there's nothing that can do about anything that happens to me in my life because you know I'm either I'm not privileged. I'm not the right gender, I'm, I grew up poor, I didn't have the same opportunities, I'm dyslexic, I'm an amputee, I'm paralyzed, whatever the fuck you want to call it. And they're all, they can things pose, here's the thing, here's what I love. And we'll, I'm going to go controversial now.

Starting point is 01:37:40 We'll talk about privilege for a second. I love that term when people throw that around. Boy, do I fucking hate that term? And it's not because it's white or black or whatever. Not because of that. Here's why I hate it. I hate the term privilege because it assumes you know somebody. It assumes you know somebody and all of the factors that make up that individual. If I were to sit here and make a list of all the possible challenges that someone could have in their life, everything from, you know, their life, their parents, their mentality,

Starting point is 01:38:14 their genetics, the school they went to, the people they met, the fucking, like, I mean, I could literally make an infinite list of possible challenges. If you know what I was, infinite fucking list, and you can't possibly quantify in each one of, and every single thing on that infinite list, there's an infinite scale of how challenging

Starting point is 01:38:32 someone can consider it to be. I may consider my dyslexia, for example, imagine if I'm dyslexic, I may consider that as an incredibly difficult challenge, a horrible stumbling block, and something that is preventing me from whatever, or I may think of my dyslexia as an afterthought. Like, oh yeah, I'm dyslexic, no big deal. Like, there's also that, too.

Starting point is 01:38:54 There's this infinite range of how you can consider all these infinite things that could be possible challenges. You can't possibly know everything about someone to call them fucking privilege and to say that they're lucky and you're not Yeah, you can go and you can say they may be lucky in this particular parameter compared to me on this specific Parameter you may be able to do that but good fucking luck and it's also Disempowering a shit to look at somebody and be like oh well the reason why they're successful Have you ever asked what better than I am?

Starting point is 01:39:21 Have you ever asked somebody like what is with someone says like oh that's white privilege like what is white privilege me to you? Have you ever asked what do they say to you if you you know when they use that term and by the way That was a term created by the by politicians to separate us a hundred percent And that's what they do very fucking well What does white privilege mean? Well, it means that if you look at statistics You can say white people generally less likely to be incarcerated, generally tend to have more money, generally, or more likely to have two parents in the

Starting point is 01:39:51 house, generally, we can say this, that and the other. But on an individual basis, it means jack fucking shit. It means nothing. It really does because regardless of what your race is, all of those things can be true or false. And so it's silly to say that. It's also, dude, here's the other side of us. It's fucking terrible to say that because let's say I'm a black kid growing up in America

Starting point is 01:40:14 today and I keep hearing the term white privilege. What is that? What can I potentially start to think about myself? I'm at a disadvantage because of my color. Right. I could act that could that could be a bad thing. I can interpret that in a way to say, well, fuck it, man. I'm destined for all this difficulty in my life because of something I don't I don't have any control over. Now, that's not I'm not denying the reality of things like racism and sexism and the the potential opportunities that money give you and the potential opportunities

Starting point is 01:40:45 of having a good family, giving all that kind of stuff. But boy on an individual basis, what does that fucking mean? I can look at Adam, right? If I'm, if I have a victim mentality, I can look at Adam and be like, this underprivileged guy grew up in a poorer household, had a difficult childhood, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The reality is I know Adam and I know that that's part of why he's so successful. Was it, did that make him underprivileged or is that his privilege?

Starting point is 01:41:10 Did he view it in a way that empowered the fuck out of him? Right. I mean, think about that, right? So it's a very, it's a very scary thing that's starting to happen where we're starting to, we're starting to blame things on uncontrollables and we're disempowering ourselves as a result. The whole fabric of this revolution of Western society, which, you know, I'll say arguably just to be a little bit politically correct, but personally, there's no fucking argument that Western society has proven to be, by most metrics, the superior philosophy that

Starting point is 01:41:43 we know through all of recorded human history. On most metrics, equality for women, equality for minorities, prosperity, the ability for people to have free thought, free religion, free speech, like all these things that we take for granted now, that is something that developed in Western society and what it was based on was this philosophy of each individual has these inalienable rights that nobody should be able to take away from you. In fact, we'll create a government small enough big enough to protect that but small enough that I want to infringe upon that. That was the best basis of Western

Starting point is 01:42:18 society. So to believe in that, but also along with that comes it's your life. The burden of your life is on you. That comes with a lot of responsibility. And then people accepted that. You know what I'm saying? Like if you look at the creation of this country for quite a bit, for most of American history, our borders were, you wanted to come to America and be an American.

Starting point is 01:42:40 You're welcome. Come on in, sign this paper. Here you go. Nobody's going to give you shit. You got to build Come on in. Come on in. Sign this paper. Here you go. Nobody's going to give you shit. You got to build it for yourself. But people like accepted that work together and did some remarkable things. Still today, you see immigrants come to this country. Look, there isn't anybody fleeing America and fucking homemade rubber tire boats to go to places like Cuba. It's the opposite. It's for this opportunity. But with it comes responsibility. And if you talk to any of these motherfuckers coming over here and sneaking over to this country and almost drowning by trying to cross oceans

Starting point is 01:43:12 or, you know, break laws and, you know, go climb under, you know, walls or whatever, you ask any of these people if they're coming here for free shit. And maybe some of them are today, but for the most part, they're like, no, man, just give me a chance. Let me take this for responsibility. I don't need you to do anything for me. Just give me a fucking chance and I'll go for it. And the victim mentality is like, boy, that's the opposite of that shit.

Starting point is 01:43:34 And I wish people could see that. Like I wish we could see that this is just a, it's a big problem. The thing about, I love about fitness so much is if you really get into fitness and health, like really deep. So many parallels, you start to accept that. You know, I mean, if you really get into it, out to, here's the funny thing.

Starting point is 01:43:52 It's a greater percentage of entrepreneurs and those type of thinkers that believe in personal responsibility, greater percentage of them work out consistently. And I think the reason is because they take that personal responsibility. And they're like, look, if I want to be fucking, if I want to be fit and healthy and have energy, I got to fucking do the work. It's gonna make the effort. I got to make the effort.

Starting point is 01:44:11 And then people who do that see the benefit of that and then start to apply that to the rest of their life. That's one of the reasons, one of the things I love so much about it, but the victim mentality is just getting, it's getting crazy. It's like that, it's like people who sue McDonald's for being obese. Yeah. You didn't know that? No.

Starting point is 01:44:28 Oh yeah. Seriously. There's people that sue, I mean, people that will sue me. That's a good question. I'm sure. I'm surprised if some of them won. Well, I'm sure that that was part of the laws that came out later on with why we had to post calories

Starting point is 01:44:40 and stuff. That's those lawsuits. I'd love to be able to Google this right now. Those lawsuits happened and then it was shortly after that. Did we see the, it was mandatory that all restaurants had to be provide their nutritional facts, either on their website or on their menu for people to read and see. So that, I believe that's what catapult. Now I don't remember if they won the case or not or it caused enough uproar that that's what ended up happening later on,

Starting point is 01:45:11 but it's pretty crazy that they did that. If you believe that you own yourself and that nobody else owns you, if you believe that, or at least if you believe that that's the moral belief, and that's the way it should be, because you could also make the argument that you're forced to pay taxes and you can't do everything you want your body or you go to jail. So you can make the argument that the government owns your body a little bit in that particular

Starting point is 01:45:36 sense. But if you believe morally speaking, and it's the right way to believe that I own me, this is my body, this is my mind. Nobody else owns this, it's mine. Then you have to simultaneously believe that the burden for your fucking life, the burden of taking care of yourself and the results of your life lies on you and nobody fucking else. Yup. Lies on nobody else. You can't believe one without the other.

Starting point is 01:46:04 You can't pass it else. You can't believe one without the other. You can't pass it off. You can't. So if you give that up, if you start to believe that you're a victim and that people owe you shit and it's their burden to take care of you and they're burden to pay you back for the fact that you're oppressed or whatever you've perceived

Starting point is 01:46:21 on all these different types of things, if you believe that, then you simultaneously believe you don't own yourself because you don't have that response. Have you ever met a successful person that has that role? I have met successful people who feel guilty for the success and then start to cater to that victim mentality because they feel so guilty for it. So then all of a sudden they want to pretend like they,

Starting point is 01:46:41 you know, like, oh, no, no, no, we owe you and whatever. And you know, it's, it's, it's really funny. You know, the irony of it is people who believe in what I'm talking about, you, there's always that argument that it's selfish. Oh, you're so selfish. You know, you should help people, whatever you look at the statistics, people who believe that actually give more to charity than people who don't. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. That's a fact. Really interesting. That's an absolute fact. Um, remember like Justin Ren when he was

Starting point is 01:47:06 talking about helping, you know, the pigmies and helping communities around that. It's been a long time. Yeah, it's been a long, it's been a minute. We should, we should see if we get him back at some point. But it was such a powerful thing when he started to describe like when they were just trying, like the governments were trying to really just drop food in and They were trying to just help and and and give people everything and access to everything and how much that fucked everything up fact that yeah, fuck the the whole economy that they had built between tribes and between people was

Starting point is 01:47:40 Was interrupted and now they don't trade with each other and was interrupted and now they don't trade with each other. And, you know, and he had to actually understand, like, on a deeper level of, like, how all that affects, like, because he really cares, because he cares, because he really cares. And that's the thing, like, when you hear people say things, like, they'll go protest things, they're like, I care about this cause.

Starting point is 01:48:00 Go look and see how they live. And then that'll tell you if they really care. Like, like, like, like, environment, you don't tell you if they really care. Like, like, environment. You don't just fucking throw money at it. No, like environmentalists. Like you have people like, oh my God, I really care about the environment. Really?

Starting point is 01:48:13 Do you? Leonardo DiCaprio, what's your fucking massive yacht? That has a carbon footprint that 15 of my lives will never, will never cover. Like, do you really care? Or do you pretend like you care because it looks good And there's a lot of pretenders out there. So that's that's what I mean by you know That's that's the whole caring side that personal responsibility and change starts within you and I'll tell you something right now Yes, definitely

Starting point is 01:48:39 Circumstances can be stacked against you. Yes, there are uncontrollables But boy does life fucking suck when you feel like you can't when when you don't own some of that, when you don't own some of it's tough, but it's also pretty awesome to look in the mirror and be like, okay, my life sucks. And I think, you know, there's shitty circumstances, but I think I have more control over this than I thought of before. And in in fact maybe a lot of the reason why it sucks is because of me The irony is as you get older and you go through enough shit. You realize that you kind of want that You really do and I love that's why I love the story that you told about the show Twilight Zone. Oh, yeah, when you shared that story because it's such a powerful powerful You know imagery of that of this, powerful, you know, imagery of that.

Starting point is 01:49:25 If this guy who's, you know, Roland Dies, he thinks he's up in heaven because he's getting everything that he wants, you know, he's getting beautiful women around him. He's with rolling crabs every time and raking in the money and has anything he wants with the snap of his fingers. Everything just works. Right. And it doesn't take long before he goes, this is awful. I would have never expected heaven to be like this. Well, what makes you think that's heaven? Like maybe that's what hell really is. Maybe hell is actually getting everything you want

Starting point is 01:49:54 and the real beauty and everything that we go through is the fucking struggle. The struggle is that for a minute, dude. Like, Well, look, think about this way. If somebody, if they could just snap their fingers and be super fit all of a sudden, will they be, will they have accomplished or,

Starting point is 01:50:14 how much do they care about it? Would they have gotten as many of the benefits as they would have gotten, had they gone through the struggle to get there? And to learn all the things. No, no. That's the reason why, you know, when we see things like the, what's that fucking stomach pump thing that's called?

Starting point is 01:50:28 Yeah, that's why I know what's fire. It's just, yeah, I know when we saw that, it's like right away you freak out because it's just like, you know that 90% of the people that use that are not, it's not going to really help. No, no, no. I think, I think one of the best things you can do in your life that will give you a sense of power, like you've never experienced before, but it does require a little bit of pain at first,

Starting point is 01:50:49 but it will give you a sense of power and meaning in your life is to realize that for the most part, your circumstances, you were, you're the one that caused most of these circumstances, or at least you're a part of them, or you could have made decisions that could have changed them, and realize this, realize that even if that's not true, even if regardless least you're a part of them or you could have made decisions that could have changed them and Realize this realize that even if that's not true even if Regardless your life is gonna be a particular way Which state of mind you think will feel better to be in the one where you feel empowered or the one where you feel like you're helpless and you're just fucking Floating with the wind and everything. I'm like it's a consequence of shit that I can't control. They've done studies on this,

Starting point is 01:51:26 where they've had people in these situations where they'll give them a little bit of autonomy or perceived autonomy, and they perceive the difficult situation as much better because they feel like they have more control over what's going on. So, victim mentality, here's the thing. Where do you think you can or can't?

Starting point is 01:51:42 You're probably right. That's right. And here's the problem. The problem is people spend a lot of money on making you feel like a victim because when you feel like a victim, it's easy to manipulate you. And when you feel like a victim, the next, the very next thing that they'll promise you, as soon as I make you feel like you're a victim to someone else and the reason why all your life sucks and everything sucks and it has nothing to do with you and pour you and it's everybody else and everybody owes you something You don't need to work hard and you don't need this responsibility the next thing that follows is

Starting point is 01:52:12 But I have the answer for you. Yeah, I got the fucking listen you vote for me And I got the fix dude you deserve this shit that I'm gonna promise you just vote for me And here's why you deserve it. That's the very next thing, run as fast as you can from those motherfuckers. There's a lot of money being spent on fucking wolves. That's right, that's right. Imagine if everybody stood up right now in the fucking world and said, hey, you know what?

Starting point is 01:52:35 I'm gonna be the change that I want in the world. I'm gonna change the shit right now myself. I'm gonna be the change that I want in the world. I'm gonna change the shit right now myself. I'm just gonna do what I can, what I can control. To prove me and And imagine what would happen right next question is from image writer Composing or flexing help with mind muscle connection isn't that

Starting point is 01:52:59 The definition of my muscle connection hunter process of that. Yeah, 100% in fact You know, it's crazy. He's like I always know when I would have it I know I always knew when I would have a really challenging client win I'd ask a client to try and flex a muscle like in your back as a classic example of that. Like some people just can't even flex their back, can't, can't activate it or their chest. And if you can't flex that muscle, it's really. Without resistance. Yeah, intrinsically. Right. Yeah. Exactly. That's what it is. Yeah. If you can't flex a muscle without resistance, it's going to be really hard to develop that muscle hard to build off the yeah, and and people and that's a very very great question that you picked there dude because This is what's wrong with what what happens when a lot of people get into working out is they think it's as simple

Starting point is 01:53:39 It's just going and going through the motions right get on the machines just go do this go do that Oh, I feel the burn. Oh, I'm sore the next day sore the next day. We're so we're so not on our bodies right I used to always laugh when I'd have people like beginners do a tricep press down I was always my favorite exercise because inevitably someone's super out of shape and out of their body like they don't they don't they don't know what they're feeling they'll do triceps like whoa I feel this on my abs because the abs they the abs. They don't even feel or I'll get the, how often did you guys get this? What muscle am I supposed to be feeling?

Starting point is 01:54:08 Yeah. Because they're so like not connected to their body. They can't even feel what they're working. It's pretty crazy. No, when it comes to mind muscle connection, the ultimate expression of that is being able to activate a specific muscle without... I usually see this sort of thing.

Starting point is 01:54:23 All working out is flexion of the muscles. That's all working out is. That's all we're doing with resistance. And that can be your body weight, that can be isometric, that can be weights, cables, can be anything, but all it is is flexing a muscle with resistance. And you want to first learn how to flex the muscle, right? Intrinsically, before you even add resistance.

Starting point is 01:54:46 So I think that that's a major mistake that a lot of people make, is they just go through the motions, and they don't really fully understand, like, oh, I'm trying to engage, which is also why I think there's a lot of value in personal trainers, because not a lot of people want to go through the work

Starting point is 01:55:01 and effort it takes to, you know, how do my lats function, you know? What are they responsible for? And like, I have to understand mechanics. Like, they're not all that people fully understand that. So having a trainer who can look at your body, look at how you move. And then while you go through an exercise, be able to explain to you, like, these are the muscles that are responsible for doing this. That's what you should be feeling. Yeah. You know, or giving them feedback by touching them there or whatever. So, yeah, posing, I think, is a great way to do that by yourself, right?

Starting point is 01:55:27 Like, I don't have sal or just in touching my back to say, Adam, squeeze your lats when you do this. So, instead, I'm in the mirror and I'm flexing and I'm trying to activate certain muscles while I'm using the mirror as a feedback. As I just remember, you know, you get your beginner clients coming in and half the time, you just have to provide that kind of feedback, even if it's like physical touch, you know, so your body actually knows like, oh, this is the area that we're focusing on. Like this is like some people just don't even have that ability.

Starting point is 01:55:59 And they, you know, they just go through the motions and momentum is carrying them through a lot of their movement practices. And it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's disconnected. It's a massive disconnect. This is why some people too can do silly looking exercises and really focus on a certain muscle because they really understand the mechanics and the function of that muscle. And so they can use machine. This is also why it's a pet peeve of mine

Starting point is 01:56:27 when professionals or people that think they're professionals on Instagram share these stupid exercises that maybe they have the ability to connect and control and do that. And they silly for the general public. Like 90% of the people that are probably watching, right? The kids that are just now getting into working out and they see, oh look at this,

Starting point is 01:56:47 I'm gonna turn sideways on this or do some weird shit like that's like, dude. I'm gonna say something about a master of the basics. I just had an interesting thought. I think that, and you guys helped me think this out because I think that if the average person learn to master the classic bodybuilding poses, the ones that are used in bodybuilding competition,

Starting point is 01:57:10 that may be a good exercise in learning, because think about it and had a control, muscles and connects them, because think about it. If you do vacuum pose. You have to learn, well, on time, the classic standard mandatory bodybuilding poses, like a lat spread, ab pose, front double bicep, which is different than a back double bicep.

Starting point is 01:57:29 That's what a real bodybuilding routine is literally taking you through. I mean, every day go through hamstring, calf, back, deltoids, chest, abdominals. But even just the poses, just the evening. But I mean, people do the poses. Well, yeah, if you're doing the poses,

Starting point is 01:57:43 you're having to activate and flex those muscles and you're learning to engage in that There's a lot of value and the ability to do that. I mean, I can actually see some value Do you guys think cuz I can see some value almost an assessment? Yeah, or or not even an assessment just like you know People aren't interested. They're not interested now that Taylor wants to do this now that being said now that being said as a trainer It's easier for me to teach that with a Tool or feedback like weights sure So telling somebody to intrinsically activate and do that is very very difficult

Starting point is 01:58:14 It's just like us trying to correct posture in why our zone test is then against the wall I use the wall you don't need a wall there you don't need a wall to check somebody's upper cross syndrome. They need to feel that. They need to feel that. So I can say, you're wrist, you're elbows, you're nodgel of your head, you're low back, feel all those points. That should be against the wall.

Starting point is 01:58:33 Oh, it's not against the wall. Head's not even close. You're deviating. Right? So they can tell that other, but we don't necessarily need that, but they do, they need that feedback. So the only downfall of,

Starting point is 01:58:44 I would never teach somebody posing before I taught them how to train because training I can, I can get you to connect to muscles by using the weights easier than I could. Well, how would you teach a beginner how to do like a little bit? It would. They wouldn't even know what the fuck that I, you know, it's funny. So I saw this. This is crazy.

Starting point is 01:59:00 So you just gave me a funny memory right now. Uh, when I first started hanging around all the body builder guys, and so that when I was starting to compete and hanging out with all the guys that are coaching and coaching the posing and doing the stuff, I could see the guys, and a lot of times their physique represented it. That just, to me, when I would look at some of these athletes

Starting point is 01:59:18 that were getting into competing, I would look at a physique and go, like you just, you have no business competing right now because you just haven't even started to build a good foundation like why try and be competitive about it. Like keep building your physique. And part of the reason why some of these guys just didn't have physique said is I could see the way they went through their posing routines that they had no control. They had no control the right muscles. You know, coach would be like flaring your

Starting point is 01:59:39 lads or flex your lads and they just couldn't do it. You know, they couldn't figure out how to do them. Like, here you are getting up on stage and competing, you know, trying to get and pushing yourself at a competitive level and you haven't even fully mastered the basics. Like I consider learning to flex every muscle, a basic skill so that you should, I consider competing, you're being a competitive athlete

Starting point is 02:00:03 like a professional. That so you should not be, I mean, it's put in the cart before the horse for sure. You absolutely want to fully be able to flex and activate every single muscle intrinsically before you're gonna push the body to crazy limits. And I can see a lot of value in, especially if you're in hypertrophy training

Starting point is 02:00:21 or if you're training for aesthetics, in following up a set with flexing that particular muscle and squeezing it and holding it for. I've seen studies around that. I don't know how much I, now I'm not talking about, I'm just saying in terms of the connection, especially for weak body parts, you know, bent.

Starting point is 02:00:37 No, I agree, I agree with you. I agree with you, but I'm just saying that I've seen people take some studies like that and they've, again, they take something and then they try and, look more important than that. Make it more important than exactly what it really is. I see value in that I've seen people take some studies like that and they've again they take something and then they try and make it look more important And make it more important than what it really is. I see value in that But you know Ben Pekolsky made an interesting point a while ago on our podcast And he said you'll you'll always notice somebody who has a weak body part that they have trouble or it's it's not strong

Starting point is 02:00:58 And it's fully contracted position. So in its fully short position It's probably not very good and you know the the old school bodybuilders used to talk about Arnold. I wish I heard that. I wish I heard that from a guy like him 10, 15 years ago and I was training lots of people so I could be looking for that more now. Yeah. Because that's a very interesting... Oh, I'm going back in my role at that. So am I. I've been doing, I'm, I'm myself, like evaluating everything going like,

Starting point is 02:01:21 hmm, that's interesting. Is he right there? Like, and I do remember when my chest started to develop more, like, was I going like, that's interesting. Is he right there? And I do remember when my chest started to develop more, was I doing like, that's a really interesting point. And I don't have enough data to pull from, but I wasn't looking for those things at that time in my life when I was training. It would be interesting to go back there. But I definitely think that he makes a fucking very good argument for that. And I see a lot of value in that.

Starting point is 02:01:44 If you're listening, and you have an underdeveloped muscle, say the calves, your chest, whatever it may be, think of that muscle in the shorted contracted position, what that is. So if it's your calves, it's when you're all the way up on your tippy toes. If it's when you're doing your chest, it's when your hands are together

Starting point is 02:02:00 and you're squeezing your chest together. And how strong are you in that fully consistent? Yeah, and I would think, like after your set, or before you're squeezing your chest together and how strong are you in that fully consistent? Yeah, and I would think, I would think like after your set or before, probably before your set, you probably want to connect to the muscle first, it's to squeeze the shit out of that muscle in the shortened position, really connect hard to it, and then go do your exercise, and that should help you connect a little more. And in fact, when I train clients, I did do versions and variations. I think I would think a heavy, a heavy negative would be really beneficial to is to get in the fully contracted position with assistance.

Starting point is 02:02:29 Yeah, then resisted in that position. Oh, wow, that's a lot of muscle damage, though, man. Oh, yeah, it would be a great way to do it. I think that is the fuck out of my mind. Think about doing that. That would be a great way to do it. You look confused, Taylor. Could this be like a YouTube video? We could.

Starting point is 02:02:43 We could do a YouTube video on something like this. I feel like that'd be really cool. Weak body part. How to bring up weak body parts. Brilliant. That's a good idea. I came up with that. Always.

Starting point is 02:02:54 Next question. Yeah, I think that is it. I think that is it. You know what's funny? Get these people there, episode. Well, no, dude. You know what's funny is another thing that there episode. Well, no, dude, you know what's funny is that another thing that was shocking and strange to me that I heard a lot of the seminar yesterday

Starting point is 02:03:10 or not the seminar, the event yesterday was people were coming up and a lot of people didn't even realize we had fucking social media like app form. Yeah. A lot of people were like, oh, I don't know you're on Instagram. Believe it or not. So I am gonna say this, we all have our own individual Instagram accounts. All

Starting point is 02:03:25 of them have different information. They all reflect our own personal flavor and personality. We're super easy to find. It means yeah mine they're super easy to find. That's true. Mine is mine pump. Sal Justin is mine pump. Justin Adam is mine pump. Adam and Doug is mine pump. Doug and Taylor is mine pump. And he's mine pump. Yeah. Check us out. Thank you for listening to mine pump atom and Doug is mine pump Doug and Taylor is mine pump media check us out. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps to performance and maps to static. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbumble is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers,

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 769: Using Flexing for Better Muscle Growth, How to Use Powerlifting to Improve Bodybuilding, Why Charging More Money May be a Better Move as a Trainer & MORE

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