Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 793: How to Strengthen Ankles, Build Knee Stability, the Dangers of Cracking Knuckles & MORE with Dr. Jordan Shallow

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So our boy is here today. We did a live, you know, people that are not in our form. This is something that we're going to be doing. You missed out going forward with our form. Oh, get in there now, because they are going to be providing way more of

Starting point is 00:00:25 the this is just a way that we're given back. It's doesn't obviously cost you guys any more money, anything that that once you're inside of our form and have access, you'll have access to this and we've partnered up with some of our doctors that you guys have heard on the show before and Jordan shallow happens to be the first one who's just a biomechanic expert, probably one of the

Starting point is 00:00:44 most brilliant. That was fucking amazing. We's a coach over at Stanford, right? Yes, for the rugby team. But he was on their live answering questions and we're going to implement that on a monthly basis for our private forum, but he was here, he didn't have anywhere to go right away afterwards. So we're like, hey, what a great guy.

Starting point is 00:01:01 Let's throw you in on a quad. Yeah, come in on our Q and A and answer some questions. So we picked some questions we thought he would answer best. The guy is smart, sometimes hard to understand because he's so damn smart. So we did try to translate some of the stuff, but you need to translate it. He's like beast from X-Man. He's the blue monster dude with the glasses.

Starting point is 00:01:22 That's good to know. Right. But anyway, so the first half of the episode, the first 60 minutes is introductory conversation. We talked about his hike with Ben Pekolsky up to like 12,000 feet or something like that. So imagine this, you get two behemoths of men hiking in a waste deep snow up to 12,000 feet.

Starting point is 00:01:41 I wanna be like the guy behind the counter REI when they're like trying to buy all their gear. Yeah, yeah,000. I want to be like the guy behind the counter REI when they're like trying to buy all their gears. Yeah, you're right. You're gonna go where? Are you sure? I did ask him about what Pekolsky gave him pre-hike because I know Pekolsky's like a mad s... We speculated that he might have

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Starting point is 00:02:18 mind pump, you'll get a massive, exclusive discount. Then we talked about telling people what they want to hear and then giving them what they need. You got to kind of trick them sometimes. We talked about going viral the good way, not the bad way. We talked about the pendulum of the fitness industry and how it swings. And then we talked a little bit about butcher box. I can't believe you didn't know about butcher box. Right. I know. I think as much meat as he does. I'm so excited. I know I'm going to get them on it for sure because that guy does put down the amount of business now put up to seventy five right now he's trying to push over three hundred oh my god so he will he will need but your box is gonna love him because he's gonna be

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Starting point is 00:03:21 the free bacon for life. $10 off your first order and free shipping. And then also what's going on with Jordan shallow here at our so he's got he's got John Meadows with him right so him and John Meadows are hosting a seminar here. It is Friday July 20th from 10 to 4 p.m. at the mind pump studio Mind Pump Headquarters in San Jose, California. You guys can find that on his website at themuscledoc.com-forthslash-store. He also right after that heads down to LA. So if you're down in the Southern California area Saturday and Sunday, July 21 through the 22nd, he's in LA at the ultimate performance gym.

Starting point is 00:04:03 So again, find that at the muscle doc. .com forward slash store. Excellent. Then we got into the questions. The first question was, can cracking or popping your joints like you and you crack your knuckles, cause arthritis or damage to the joints, it was awesome to hear. Yeah, who better than to have a chiropractor?

Starting point is 00:04:19 Exactly. Give us the 4-1-1 on that. The next question was, are there any exercises or tips for strengthening the ankles? This person broke their ankle about eight years ago, and now just rolls their ankle all the time. What is the problem? The next question was, are both suballs and stability

Starting point is 00:04:34 balls or things good tools for building knee stability? Like a lift. Really good conversation, man. A lot of myths there, so we had to kind of uncover those myths. D-bunked. Finally, one of the most ridiculous pieces of fitness equipment that we've ever seen We had some fun with that part of this episode also this month Maps anywhere, which is our maps program designed for absolute minimal equipment

Starting point is 00:04:57 All you need are bands and maybe like a stick for tension Basically, you can do these workouts anywhere. That's why I was named Maps Anywhere. Half off, the whole program, 50% off. We've never done this before. All month long, Maps Anywhere, half off. We also have Maps bundles. Now bundles are where we take multiple Maps programs and put them together for specific goals. Most popular bundle we have is the Super Bundle, which is a year of exercise programming. In other words, in role in the Super Bundle, you have the next year all planned out for you with your workouts and it changes from phase to phase, month to month, program to program,

Starting point is 00:05:35 your body progressing the entire time. You can find the bundles and you can find the 50% off maps anywhere on our website, mindpump pump media.com So you were telling us earlier about climbing and doing stuff. I don't want I'm not gonna throw it out there I'm not that's fine Okay, are you is that something you do? Are you into like going high altitude stuff? No, no It's just I mean, it's just a challenge like I think we've all and I don't want to say Transcended it as a way that like we've figured it all out when it comes to weight training

Starting point is 00:06:04 But I think we've figured it out that it's not the only thing. So Ben Pekolsky and Alex Viotta, we, I don't know how we got it in our heads that we wanted to try and climb Kilimanjaro. So Alex, that sounds like a binpakolsky idea right now. Uh, if you're trying to convince me to do a Spartan race and I'm like, I don't know right now, dude. But it comes down to like, it's just, I mean, life is really hard. Like, and you've run, you've finished, and once I was finished with school, it's like, fuck, this sucks.

Starting point is 00:06:29 I just wanna go back and play in the sandbox, but for me, it was like, because we just got off, I mean, I'm fucking burnt red right now. We were, we were, we were at a barista. Yeah. We were about like, I think we were just shy at 13,000 feet yesterday. So we climbed Cloud Ripper in Bishop California.

Starting point is 00:06:47 How's your stamina when you do something like that? It's funny. Because you have so much muscle. It's 275 right now. Yeah, I still would assume that because you have some more muscle, you require more blood, more oxygen. And if you haven't trained that way, anyway, it's got to be kind of exhausting.

Starting point is 00:07:04 Yeah, so I mean, I've been doing a strict regiment of cardio the past couple months while actually gaining weight, because I'm going up. Are you wearing your gas mask while you do that? Yeah, man. Yeah, elevation training, Masro. Get at me.

Starting point is 00:07:16 I just like doing bane impressions. I'm really good at it, man. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so we did a cloud. I just like it, because it's just a challenge and it's funny because you get to see how people, their personalities come through and their challenge, right?

Starting point is 00:07:29 Like that's basically what character is. And three of us are all very different. Like Ben comes from Bodybuilding, I'm powerlifting and Alex Viotta is like, he's a kind of a mix of everything. Like Super Jack, Super Shredded, super strong, but it also does like double Iron Man's. Like he's fucking crazy crazy and you see how each

Starting point is 00:07:46 person's personality comes out on the hill because like Alex led the way he was our track are very technical. He had his he had his like hiking poles and I don't fuck me. I showed up in literally a beater like you get to see my tan line was all enough to my shoulders because I'm like I'm gonna fucking get the guns out. Could you imagine seeing this guy in Pekolsky up in the fucking high-out? There was two fucking Sasquatch. They probably could even move past. We came across two people and they're both like, I think they kind of laugh because like, oh, they're never gonna fucking make it.

Starting point is 00:08:15 But it was funny. So Alex very, and his personality is very technical. He's very intelligent, like extremely, extremely intelligent. And he led the way and he was like, you could see every was calculated and that's how we that's what goes through life and you put them in the challenge and that's the expression of kind of how he operates Ben is you know he's very he's very conscious driven he's very mindful mindful yeah that's probably the best way to describe very discipline and you could be very supportive and you get like so it was was bent in the back, Alex in the front,

Starting point is 00:08:45 like fearless leader got a bend, just like, come on, who raw guys, we got this. And you kind of get to look at yourself and go, like, how do I respond to this? And it's just like head down, don't say a fucking word and just go, which is totally your personality. Oh yeah, that was, it was fun because it's like,

Starting point is 00:09:01 I feel like that's very preliminary in development, right? Like trying to just work hard instead of smart here of Alex leading the way is probably at that particular endeavor is the best at it like he he made it at the top and he was like guiding us through dude I was way steep in snow at 13,000 feet wearing fucking like underarm short and hiking shoes. Oh shit. Yeah, like it was it was a reals about abdominal snowman. Yeah But yeah, so it was just to me it was just like the brute force is a very preliminary way to get through things And it's like seeing their other two approaches is like definitely looking to adopt more more of that sophistication like Alex has

Starting point is 00:09:49 or more of that mindfulness. Now knowing that you went with a guy like Pekolsky, did he give you anything to increase like oxygen, you know, uptake or so that like court of steps for example, is something that I like to use for stamina. I'm assuming he gave you something like that, because I know Ben probably woke you up in the morning with a shake of stuff. What did he have?

Starting point is 00:10:10 So he actually did this keto. He's in the middle of this 30 day. Oh my God, that's a keto thing. He's a keto. He's a keto. So it was extra crunchy granola. Like, it was, it wasn't, because I don't know if that's a carb or not. But it was, he had this like, what was it?

Starting point is 00:10:23 It was fucking, it got me going. It was like a, it's a type of car that's big in the keto world. You guys might know it. It starts with a Y. It's like a super starch. You'll him bar or something? No, no, no, no.

Starting point is 00:10:35 Yaka, Yaka something. Okay. What is that? I don't know. So it's what I could derive. It's a very complex, all I go saccharide that won't spike her insulin. Okay.

Starting point is 00:10:44 So that was like kind of a like a bend thing That I was like all right and put up just when he hands you stuff you just take it You just slam it down. I don't want to know why it's wrong if I don't take it So I'm just gonna take it But not not I actually read before that beats be it supposed to be good So I had some of those and that was by my own Kind of my my own research. Yeah, for stamina, I would go, like, beads, cordo-seps, of course, carbohydrates, and he, if he had the carbs beforehand, and he was keto leading into it,

Starting point is 00:11:14 that would have made him very sensitive to the carbs, so he probably got some good stamina out of it. Yeah, he, um... I mean, considering you guys are so big and you did that, like, you know, that's pretty fucking... Do you get sore after shit like that because it's so many reps and so different from what you used to doing? Yeah, totally. I mean, I got and did some work,

Starting point is 00:11:30 but I think the thing, like you mentioned in the beginning, is you can't train for that kind of elevation. You can't train for that kind of, that decrease of partial pressure of oxygen, and again, having a bit more muscle mass, and requiring more of that to have oxygen while you're utilizing the muscle. It was like my hands would swell up. And but just being at elevation,

Starting point is 00:11:50 and the nice part is it's like, I mean, I'm 275, I've been as high as 285. So being out of breath isn't a new thing for me. So it's almost like the incredible Hulk thing where they go like, oh man, what's your secret? It's like, oh, I'm always angry. So we would stop at like 12,000 feet and ask like, how you doing?

Starting point is 00:12:07 I mean, wind did obviously, like some of the, some of the gain was really acute. Like, the grade was really like, it wasn't rock climbing, but you were scrambling a little bit. How long did it take you guys? Oh, all told, let's see, we started, we started at like 8 a.m.

Starting point is 00:12:22 and we got off around 4 p.m. Oh, shit. Yeah, just bring snacks. Yeah. Well, that's a thing, man. Like, I brought, I brought three meals of beef and rice. I couldn't get time. Fuck no, dude. At the, the sharpest rock seemed like the best idea. It's like, oh, if I die, I die. I'm like, it was, I was crazy, man,

Starting point is 00:12:44 but like the appetite, like being at that that altitude, really messes with you. None of us, because that was the reason for this trip, was let's see how we respond. Because you can be the best athlete in the world, put you at altitude, and you can get altitude sickness. They're not really... The only way to train for it is to train in it. Yeah. I think a lot of it's vestibular.

Starting point is 00:13:05 Like I think a lot of the, because I look at it almost like C sickness or motion sickness, where it's like there's something with that partial pressure of oxygen that plays with like the vestibular calcular operatus and you're kind of in the year, you're in or year. But luckily we made it to about 12, 5, 13,000 and we were fine. You know, Kilimanjaro's just under 20. That's about 19, 19, five.

Starting point is 00:13:27 How are you gonna prepare for that? Just more, just more. Just more what you were gonna do. Yeah, so the hard part with yesterday was, the climb was difficult. But the descent is, the climb is hard on your CV, like your cardiovascular. The descent is hard on your joints, on your body.

Starting point is 00:13:44 So, fuck me in. We made it to like this, like we kind of lost the trail out of the start. Like, fuck did anyone see a different trail head? Like we started like trending off course a little bit. And then we intersected with this, with the trail we should have been on. And then it kind of went into one up to the green

Starting point is 00:13:58 or brown lake and then we went up around green lake and then up into cloud river. And then there was an old lady there with her dog. So it immediately kind of gave us like, she was mid mid 60s and it kind of immediately gave us some perspective like immediately. Yeah, she's like, oh, it's more in gentlemen. And she's like, oh, you guys took the hard way up. I'm like, oh, fuck yeah. All right, Wicked, we're going to take old lady route on the way down. So we keep going and then she passed us and we end up with the lake, she's playing with her dog. It's like, fuck me in. All right, everyone got to sack up your fellows.

Starting point is 00:14:26 Let's go, and then we get to the top, it's just crazy silent, I've never heard a lack of noise like that. And especially in California, things that are that aesthetically pleasing, there's usually- There's a lot of people. But it's hard to get to.

Starting point is 00:14:41 So those same, a lot of people are usually pretty lazy, so it's different than going to Santa Cruz boardwalk, I'm like, oh, that's nice. If you took the 20,000 people out, did you have the energy to take some shots? Did you take any? Yeah, we took a couple. You know what? I think there was a collective thought of like, we're doing this for us. We're not doing this for social media. Good for you. Yeah. And it was cool like to be around people who like agree with you just and we you. And it was an unspoken thing. We're like, hey guys, we're gonna keep this off social media. We just kind of enjoyed the time, normal people,

Starting point is 00:15:11 or I don't even know if that's considered normal anymore. But anyways, on the way down, oh fuck yeah, we're at the end pass, we're gonna take old lady way down. Dead tired, I've eaten shit a few times, Ben took a great couple great couple of tumbles The last two miles the old lady walked two miles on a drainage pipe What it was a fucking 18 inch drainage pipe and two miles for two miles on the way down literally So so here we're thinking like oh fuck yeah, we got this geriatric trail on the way down It's fucking old lady walked two miles up on a drainage pipe with her dog,

Starting point is 00:15:45 and that was the easy way. So I was on the way back down, and it's like, so are you going down the drainage pipe? Yeah, we can, because we're thinking like, all right, this is gonna be like a couple feet, and then like we go around the corner that it's like just smooth trail all the way down. It was a fucking drainage pipe,

Starting point is 00:16:00 and we're talking like 30 foot drop on the right side. Like you're looking at 70% grade jagged rocks, 30 foot drop to the bottom. If you slipped off the strain, it's probably, dude. Like it was a level of like mindfulness that like, it's dire consequences. It kinda had to be like that. It's kinda cool that happened to you.

Starting point is 00:16:18 Yeah, but it's like, I probably would have felt 10 times more, or I mean, it didn't fall at all. I probably would have felt like 10 times over if I was just on a regular trail, because I was just throwing my legs in front of me up to that point. But it's like, all right, you got to find another gear here and you need to be very present for the next. I was just going to say nothing makes you present like that. Oh, yeah. I did a hike in Kauai and there were definitely whole periods of parts of this trail where you have to be entirely focused on what you're doing.

Starting point is 00:16:45 You can't think of anything else and it's at that moment, you don't we have a time to be afraid because you're just kind of focused. Yeah. Afterwords, you start to process it all and it's what they call it, type two fun. Yeah. We're after you're done. You're like, oh shit, that was awesome. But while you're doing it, it's like, you don't want to be a part of the Napoleon Polycoast forever. Yeah. That's a real trail. Yeah. That's your time at. You're talking about the cul-aued. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:07 We just got back from Kauai. I got back from Kauai and got in a car and then went to Bishop. Oh, shit. So, wow. Yeah, it's just been traveling like crazy lately, man. But yeah, that high altitude training, you know, it's the adaptations to altitude happen pretty quickly. So, if you train an altitude for like a week,

Starting point is 00:17:23 your body adapts pretty quickly, but the adaptation goes very fast in the opposite direction. So fighters learn this the hard way where they would go train at altitude, then they'd come back a week before the fight, and they'd fight and they wouldn't get that much of a carryover. It's literally last, last I can't bear.

Starting point is 00:17:36 Explain why you wouldn't train with an elevation mask, because I know there's gotta be people listening. Elevation masks, the adaptation you get from elevation mask is you may strengthen your diaphragm or your ability to breathe in Maybe but it doesn't reduce the it doesn't improve your your blood oxygen rate You're not carrying your your red blood cells You're not increasing the number of them when you do it. So it's not at all like training it altitude Yeah, it's increasing sucking in harder. It's what you know it's

Starting point is 00:18:02 Decreasing the total amount of air you can breathe in, but air is an oxygen, right? 60% of air is nitrogen. So the oxygen is such a small component. So it's relative versus absolute ratios that you're dealing with. So I mean, the original stimulus that they thought was increasing your ether of poeatin, right?

Starting point is 00:18:21 Yeah, EPO. Yeah, but it's like, there are better ways to do that. If that is your end goal, right? So I think, yeah, it's just another fucking, it was just another gimmick that came out. I just think the aesthetics of it made it really appealing. I don't know, that's so funny to me that that would make it appealing,

Starting point is 00:18:38 like wearing a mask on your face when you're working. Well, it does make your workout hard. There's a market for making your workout harder. You can invent something that does nothing beneficial but make your workout hard there's a market for making your workout harder You can invent something that does nothing beneficial, but make your workout harder. Yeah, that's a good way and people will buy it because It's hard. Yeah, dude that workout kicked my ass because you know while I was working out You know I got this fucking I just put duct tape over your mouth to go work Okay, so you have you guys heard about and this is new to me and this is you know weekend with Ben Fakowski open your eyes And this is new to me and this is you know weekend with Ben Fakowski open your eyes to

Starting point is 00:19:07 Taping your mouth shut when you breathe Wait while you breathe no, sorry when you sleep. Oh, yeah Fucking blown oh, actually I was with Ben when he got introduced to that right so we were at paleo effects And they help a sleep apnea. Yes, they brought it over and it's like this clear plastic that goes over your lips. And it gives you like this little hole to kind of barely breathe through. Dude, that freaked me out. I feel like guys buy that shit for their girlfriends.

Starting point is 00:19:34 No honey, it helps you trust me. Put it over your mouth. I can't talk then. Yeah, but you want good sleep, right? Yeah, put it on your mouth. I have a whole gag, like a normal. Fuck, it's wrong with you. No, but I didn't notice the adaptation really quickly.

Starting point is 00:19:46 Like what we, Bishop was about, or we stayed in mammoth lake, which is about like 8,000 feet of elevation. And to the first night I was trying to sleep, it was like breathing through a straw. Like it was there, but you woke up the next day, and you're like, oh, okay, all right, yeah. This feels all right.

Starting point is 00:20:00 Oh, interesting. Then you go up to this. Well, you know that carryover, I mean, I know, you know, more red blood cells isn't gonna make you necessarily stronger, but when you're lifting, if you're especially if you're a big guy, those little adaptations can definitely contribute to, you know, better lifting, better working out. Sure, man.

Starting point is 00:20:15 I mean, I would have loved to have been able to track like hematocard and in transit period of time to see what the adaptation is, because it's just, I mean, if you guys ever heard of Bjorn Reese, Mr. 60. No. So Bjorn Reese, Mr. 60. No. So Bjorn was like a, he was a cyclist before Lance got popped with doping. Okay.

Starting point is 00:20:31 So the reason they called him Mr. 60 was his, his hematicate levels when I tested him were religiously around 60%. Which is like the viscous, like the viscosity equivalent of like having maple syrup in your veins. Oh, because he was on the dope. So like he was on the e-view. He was injecting himself e-peel like you're running syrup everywhere. Yeah, it's crazy. You just wonder how much, like how far you can push that, but then also like relative. And get a heart attack.

Starting point is 00:20:53 Yeah, and that's the risk, like the risk benefit ratio for something like that. But I definitely noticed whatever, and I'm assuming that's what the adaptation was, was more, or even maybe an increased carrying capacity of the red blood cells I already had. But it was night and day, from literally, and upon intended, from what I went to bed to what I woke up, that eight hours of just being at that elevation, totally different person. Yep, yep, yep.

Starting point is 00:21:17 That's interesting. Any habits that you picked up from Ben since you hung out with him? Anything, anything do you turn you on to? It's more the process that, and with him and Alex, it's more the process of how they think and the levels in which they think is pretty neat. Because I think if you can gain skills that allow you to think deeper within a vein that you already know,

Starting point is 00:21:36 then you can actually use those skills of depth of thought and apply them laterally to different concepts. Rather than most people trying to be, and we've talked about this in the past, where most people are trying to be a mile wide, but they're an inch deep. I think if you can go a mile deep on something, you can start to transfer, like that's Renaissance. That's Da Vinci, that's, you know, he's an artist, he's a poet, he's an inventor, but it's because he's can, if you, I'm reluctant to use the word master something because that's

Starting point is 00:22:00 a mastery has become like the bay of 2018. It's just fucking over you buzz word. But if you can really try and dig deep and that's where these guys go. And like I get accused of being overly complicated with things, unnecessarily, I'm buying in detail. I know. You know what, man, part of it is when people look at me, they think I'm stupid. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to throw a 17 syllable word at ya. And then once we've got that, then I'll start getting it. So this is a critique I have for you I'm like all right. I'm gonna throw a 17 syllable word at you and then once we've got that then I'll

Starting point is 00:22:25 So this is I this is a critique I have for you that I really believe that I can totally relate to this that what we have this you know for someone meets you They see your big buff guy right away. They're gonna think you're a dumb guy Yeah, but you don't I think you you you cover that within the first five minutes of it meeting me I mean once you once you meet you for five minutes and you talk like you're not dumb They're for sure. You're not dumb. They're for sure you're not dumb. Like, you're good. So I think if you just start like that and then you kind of shift to like this, you dumb it down a little bit after that, then I think you can earn that you can still keep that same respect level.

Starting point is 00:22:55 I just think with the internet, it's like I'm always having a first impression, right? Every time someone comes across a YouTube video, it's like, I need them to know that this isn't a YouTube fitness channel, right? Like that's not the goal of this. This is a little bit, and because I, the thing with me, and this is a little bit of an aside, I don't, if you have the skill set to tune a Ferrari, you can do an oil chain on a Corolla, right?

Starting point is 00:23:18 That's within your depth of your scope of practice, where it's like someone who can only do an oil change on a Corolla can't tune a Ferrari. They can't scale up. So for me, it's like, if I can take someone from a 600 pound bench to a 700 pound bench, you want a bench 135, all right, kid, give me four weeks. That's kind of thing, where it's like having that ability

Starting point is 00:23:41 to scale down is always easier to scale up. But there is a certain level of, I'm reluctant, because I don't really believe in the word emotional intelligence, but there's an ability to read a room when people are starting to glass over with the anatomy stuff.

Starting point is 00:23:53 Like, okay, the hip bone attaches to the knee bone. Got it? All right, let's move forward, shall we? So, yeah, it's, well, the thing I appreciate a lot about guys like Pekolsky and people like Greenfield even Ben Greenfield is, it's not so much about, and I love hanging out with guys like that because they're not talking about what to think

Starting point is 00:24:09 as much as it's just how to think. There's a difference there. And I think people of that caliber, it's the way that they think that allows them to dig deep into different subjects and to be open-minded about different things. And the thing about any field, I don't care what field you're in,

Starting point is 00:24:24 the longer you're in it, there's's a curve where you feel like you know everything and then you can stay in it longer and you start to realize you don't know shit. And then you start to stay in it longer and then you start to realize, whoa, there's a lot more, some of that weird stuff or whatever, I'm going to start digging into that because I feel like I covered all this other stuff and it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper the deeper you go. I think it's just how it's how you source your information to like they they exist very much in the realm of like the esoteric where the majority of people who pursue Yeah, more information are looking for like the checklist seven habits of highly successful. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right, right. You've fucked in. This is like, I have a big sticking point. And we always end up on the topic of podcast culture. Just like the books that are coming out,

Starting point is 00:25:08 like the four hour this and this. And it's like, that's, and I think that's a distillation of very intelligent people. But it's like, I wanna read the books that these people read, right? Like, I don't wanna fucking read, you know, how to become a billionaire in three easy steps, because that's not applicable. I wanna know the to fucking read, you know, how to become a billionaire in three easy steps, because that's not applicable.

Starting point is 00:25:26 I want to know the intangibles and where you, like, who you read that inspired you to come up with this. Now, I don't want to just read these three steps and it's like, well, yeah, no. Yeah, but you as a thought leader though, and it has to know, you need to know that you're the minority with that thought process. You've got to know that as a thought provoking business leader now

Starting point is 00:25:47 that, and that's something that we are challenged with all the time. It's one of the hardest things about this business right now is keeping that integrity, and because I think we all believe the same way too, I remember when we were first doing like our lead magnets and sales funnels, it's like, fuck dude, how do we get these people's attention? Because we have something really good for them that we can Provide and we know we can help them and change their lives, but we know damn well that they we've got 15 seconds in this little feed It's like that's one of the hardest things to do. Well, yeah, because I mean you don't want to be the fucking Mike Chang six pack abs

Starting point is 00:26:17 Thing but if that gets your attention, it's the old bait and switch right if get them in the back of the van Then we're fucking good, right? That's kind of cool But it's just the hard part I think but I think the big problem is whether it's it's opportunistic or people like I would be one thing I'd almost have more respect for people that are putting out these books that if their goal is alright easy sell people don't people don't like to learn right every time fuck every time I hear someone reference like stoicism and there's some Marcus Aurelius Instagram quote,

Starting point is 00:26:48 it's like, okay, let's take a step back. You can read Marcus Aurelius and put this out, but that's the idea of thoughts and actions. I would rather read someone like Primo Levy. You wanna talk like someone who embodies the tenets of stoicism in real time, you know, courage, justice, temperance. You can work these things into his own life and then pervade that. I would learn, and I would suggest that majority of people would learn from reading an

Starting point is 00:27:15 experience like that, then reading like actual, like just Marcus really is, or reading these, you know, these checklists for your life, success, and all this stuff. So I just think there's such an echo chamber of personal self-help and Instagram entrepreneurial shift where it's like, all right guys, let's peel this layer back. Let's go layer. But you know one thing that was, I mean, a huge paradigm shift for me years ago, I started to realize that,

Starting point is 00:27:41 because I would see this ridiculous shit in our industry, but then you look at all industries and you see a lot of ridiculous shit. And you get angry and you think, why are you guys selling people this stuff or why are you saying what you're saying? And you would get angry. But then you realize, that's what the people want. Like here's a quote, I'll read you a quote from Thomas Sol, who's one of my favorite economists of all times.

Starting point is 00:28:00 And this applies to our industry, but he's using it because he is an economist and he talks about politics a lot. And he says, the fact that so many successful politicians are such shameless liars is not only a reflection on them, it's also a reflection on us. When the people want the impossible, only liars can satisfy. So when we look at our industry like fitness

Starting point is 00:28:18 and we look at all this bullshit that people are putting out, why is it all, why are they putting it out? Because this is what people want. I wanna lose 30 pounds and fucking one week. I don't wanna do any work. I don't wanna do any, I wanna take a pill, or just tell me one thing to do that's gonna change my life forever

Starting point is 00:28:32 that I'll never, that's gonna be super easy. And so that's what they keep getting. They keep getting a bunch of bullshit. And it's like, it doesn't sell to say the other thing, unless you can really make, unless you can really appeal to the psychology of the individual, or start to get them to understand the why, and that's a tough, that's a long way.

Starting point is 00:28:48 You also have to look at the emotional side of it too, that if something triggers you, where it fires you up or pisses you off, and it changes your emotional state, you have to ask yourself, what is that inside of me that causes that? Because it's normally rooted in some sort of insecurity. You touched on it a little bit ago that,

Starting point is 00:29:04 you've got this chip that you gotta come off really, really smart, and that's, Brahms on your eye now, everybody in this room knows how brilliant you are, but really what that is is your own insecurity of feeling that. A hundred percent. And the more that you get comfortable with that and understanding that and then learning how to,

Starting point is 00:29:22 okay, yeah, that's how I feel, and that's what justifies me doing this, but is that the best approach? And do you have the ability to rethink that and put something out different? That's really challenging to do. It takes a lot of experience, maturity, open-mindedness, to be able to look at yourself and go like,

Starting point is 00:29:43 this passionate feeling I feel about this, even touching on the, you know, Stoics, Stoics, like there's good stuff in there. And I think that if you have the ability to read it digested and then apply it in real world, I think that there's some value to that. I don't think it's something that you knock. I just think that, and that feeling that you have to want to knock that, I think, again,

Starting point is 00:30:07 that's rooted in your own insecurity of looking at another really brilliant mind or intelligent people that are putting out information. So I'm always about, like, okay, whenever I feel like this, feel really passionate about it, stepping back and going, like, oh, fuck, okay, am I getting trapped and stuck in my own insecurities, my own beliefs, and that, and it's, oh fuck, okay, is this am I getting trapped and stuck in my own, my own insecurities, my own beliefs, and that, and it's limited me from growing beyond where at this current level that I am at right now.

Starting point is 00:30:33 The problem I have in with the quote that you mentioned is the market that we're in and all markets do this, because every time you're selling something, you're selling a solution, but first they sell you the problem Right, that's that's the issue. That's the issue that I take up with like when I see these fuckers come up We've cracked the code like I think you might know who I'm talking about. It's like really really you and your 14 inch quads Crack the fucking code get the fuck out of here, but it's like you're creating a problem and you're instilling it It's fear-mongering and this is whether you're selling some bullshit fucking body program on Facebook or whether it's like you're creating a problem and you're instilling it's fear-mongering. And this is whether you're selling

Starting point is 00:31:05 some bullshit fucking body program on Facebook, or whether it's your wolf blitzer in front of a 20-foot fucking hologram on CNN, it's predatory, and that's what I don't like, because it's feeling of being known. And if you get educated, you liberate yourself. You do, and I do believe that you have a responsibility to present things with integrity

Starting point is 00:31:27 and with accuracy and with honesty. But I also believe that there's a massive responsibility on the side of the consumer. Because the reality is the power is in the numbers of the consumers, where the ones that drive it, where the ones that drive the market. Because look, tomorrow, if everybody today stopped following all these stupid pages. They'd all disappear and the market would change and we try to deliver What people are asking for one of the one of the things I love most about the age of information that we live in is

Starting point is 00:31:55 I'll tell you what you've been in fitness. How long have you been so different today than it was? For oh, it's so different people as much bullshit as there is out there today People are a lot smarter than they were 20 years ago 20 years ago. I used to different. People as much bullshit as there is out there today, people are a lot smarter than they were 20 years ago. 20 years ago, I used to have to sit down and convince women that if they did a fucking weight training exercise, they wouldn't look like Doreen Yates the next day. I had to sit there and convince them. Today, way less of that conversation.

Starting point is 00:32:20 Just something, and it's so basic. Our business is an example of this. To the average person who's on the outside looking in and you look at our, quote unquote, social presence right now, we look like we're still a small business. But when we meet and we talk to some of these people that we're picking on right now that sell a lot of this bullshit, they've got millions of followers.

Starting point is 00:32:40 Our business is doing two, three times the revenue that's here because we're taking care of our people, and that shit gets out nowadays. And we're in a different time. See, 15 years ago, you couldn't Google search Yelp real quick and find out all these reviews and stuff. So you may be able to pull, you may be able to gimmick people and pull some shit off for one or two dumb people.

Starting point is 00:33:00 But even those dumb people, they go through it, they find out it doesn't work for them, it's bullshit, they get hurt, whatever the make case would be they go right away They get out there and they put that shit out there and that travels and that eventually poisons a business Three years ago, you know We we didn't episode and we first started on the myth of the small meal myth and what I mean by that is like the extreme Like I got eight times a day to burn more fat and build more muscle and we did a whole episode on why that was a myth And it's completely I mean this, this is 100% like,

Starting point is 00:33:27 today, three years later, it's totally accepted and not a problem. Three years ago, we did that episode. You know how much pushback we got from people? Telling us it was, we were full of shit and that's everybody knows that that's super effective and it's the best thing to do for your body and we're like, actually know this zero science

Starting point is 00:33:40 supporting eating six to eight times a day. If you guys looked at your statistics outside as far as conversion rates outside the United States? This is something that I've started to notice is that the fitness industry and the market in the United States is much different than in other countries. I can go to Australia for a month and I can sell out seminars across the country. I can charge a decently high price for it in the States.

Starting point is 00:34:02 I can do one for free and like no one would show up. I just, this is the most competitive market for fitness by far and it's just competitive. You also appeal to that market just like, we appeal that market because you say fuck a lot. Is that what it is? You know what if you said it's a fun guess. That's a big one, they love that.

Starting point is 00:34:17 They love us out there because we, I think we are like that, you know. I think every other market other than the States can draw a difference between notoriety and credibility. I think every other market other than the states can draw a difference between notoriety and credibility. I think that's the biggest thing. That's what you touch on with the followers. It's like, you can have social capital all you want, but if you can't transfer that

Starting point is 00:34:35 to revenue, then you're not worth shit, right? I think in the United States, if I had half a million followers, 500,000 followers, I would be able to sell these seminars out where they look at the initials, the work experience, the information that I put out in other countries before they look at how many followers. Because that's how I was described. It's consumer trust. It's a personal stock market. That's what following is.

Starting point is 00:35:04 So what are you trading at? It's essentially the equivalent of how many followers you have. That's consumer trust in the market in the United States. That's how I look at it. So the hard part is how do you build a high converting following? How do you have that thousand real followers? Impact people. What how do you blow that out?

Starting point is 00:35:21 Because some people blow that out to a million followers. Because you were trying to sell. The question is, do you even need to? Because some people, like, how do you blow that out to a million followers, right? Because you were trying to sell them. The question is, do you even need to? But just, I mean, more is always better. Well, that's not true. So yeah, disagree with that. I think that, I mean, I remember telling the boys when we first started and we were, you know,

Starting point is 00:35:34 we kept talking about how we were gonna see this hockey stick in one day, we were just gonna go viral and blow up. And I was scared of death of that because we didn't have the systems in place at that time. Sure. And sure, if all of a sudden, mine pump went to a million listens per episode and just quadrupled real quick like that overnight, well, yeah, the business dollar wise would quadruple where we're at right now.

Starting point is 00:35:54 But then I would look at it like, oh shit, well, we don't have the things in place to capture or to retarget, to keep growing that. That could have been $100 million that only ended up being $10 million dollars. But do you think people that make that acute hockey stick spike are worried about that in retrospect? I don't think they're worried about it, but they should be. But would you rather have to deal with an exposed factor

Starting point is 00:36:14 than not deal with it at all? So I would rather, I would rather deal it with it, because here's a thing, if once you do, in this business, if someone comes across you on the internet or podcasts, whatever, you really only have that one or two times to capture them and then you're fucked. Sure. So, if you come in and my website isn't dialed in, I can't answer your question, my customer

Starting point is 00:36:34 service is terrible that way, your program isn't legit. If all these things are shitty, they come in one time and that's their experience. Even if you evolve the business later on and you get better, they may never come back to you. I think the point you're making is there's nothing wrong with the hockey stick of growth if it's if you're prepared and ready for it and most many times people aren't. And you end up getting here, the other thing too is like... Because they become so focused on the spiking part. Here's the chicken in the air.

Starting point is 00:36:58 Yeah, the algorithm. Can I hack the algorithm for Instagram or YouTube or all these ways to gain followers? Imagine if you could snap your fingers and make everybody fit and ripped all of a sudden. and I hacked the algorithm for Instagram or YouTube or all these ways to gain followers. What's like? Imagine if you could snap your fingers and make everybody fit and ripped all of a sudden, would they be in the same position as if they took time to learn their bodies, grow, work with their bodies, learn nutritional?

Starting point is 00:37:14 They wouldn't be in the same position. They might look fit and ripped, but there's not. Now with business, you see a lot of businesses crumble under their own weight because they'll, for whatever reason, something about them goes viral and they fucking disappear because they don't learn anything because they didn't have the time to do so.

Starting point is 00:37:28 But I mean, like, speaking in the space of podcasting and influence it, having like a, what was it, the fairest put up something about some kind of mackerel fish he eats or whatever the hell. And fucking whole food sold out across the country. Here's whole foods whose supply chain is probably on par, like it was one's bazos take over, you know the supply chain is probably on part like it was Bay Zos take over you know the supply chain is on lock right and may fucking sold out

Starting point is 00:37:50 do you think the macro company is going to have fuck. We're done. Oh right or like you guys have Vincent on the show Matt yeah right so when Rogan had that kick today in the dick cup just sit in there like how many fucking units probably flew off the shelf he guaranteed you back or you could definitely make the argument that it's a good problem. Yeah. You could definitely make that argument. But it's a better problem than never growing.

Starting point is 00:38:09 Sure. But I'll tell you what, let's say we exploded within the first six months and then we get called by Rogan or someone big and like come on our show. I don't think we would have done well. I don't think we would have been ready. You know what I'm saying? And then that could have potentially killed us.

Starting point is 00:38:24 I think most of these kids that you see explode on social media aren't ready. They're not ready for a real business, not one that's gonna last 20, 30, 40 years. Sure, they're ready to collect revenue. Sure, they're ready to buy clothes from China, put their logo on it and sell it for two times a price and make a couple million dollars really quick.

Starting point is 00:38:41 You can see by the decisions they have to make after that too. Like, they're always trying to recreate that viral sort of like product that just doesn't exist. Like it got you there, but you didn't have any systems or any kind of business behind it to actually capture those leads. I just think yeah, that that viral is always niche. And then your type cast it's like 100%.

Starting point is 00:39:01 We know people and it look, I know people in social media I'm not gonna name names, but who got really popular doing crazy wild, you know, insane shit and guess what? That's all they can do now. They can't do anything else. How do you convert that and how does that last for? 15 years 20 years. We got to start with a broader base like one This is gonna sound really weird, but Ed Sheeran, his illegal downloads for his one album, Sir Pass, Michael Jackson's Thriller, for all time most illegally downloaded albumable. Wow, I didn't know that.

Starting point is 00:39:31 But if you think of his skillset as a musician, he's never came out in a single genre, right? So his bass is so broad, that's all the snatch here, and I don't give a shit, right? I enjoy his music, but his music is so different. It appeals to so many people. It took a while for him to build his bass, but his music is so different. It appeals to so many people. It took a while for him to build his bass, but his bass is so broad now.

Starting point is 00:39:48 And that's the same thing with fitness, is like, if you're bench press and chicks or like, doing back flips and dead lifts and stuff, it's like, guess what? When you try to branch out into our space and deal in more, maybe thought provoking topics in fitness and more depth and detail. We're already here. We can branch from the central point because I think it's funny because I forget what I was listening.

Starting point is 00:40:11 It was one of these lacrosse ball foam roller type people who sell you nonsense. They sell you accessories rather than giving the education and the tools to assess your body and just implement accessory movements into your training. Where it's like they use the phrase and it really stuck with me. It's like we're creating products that liberate people. It's like, you know how you liberate people, whether it's fitness, fuck yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:34 Fucking right. And that's drove me nuts, because I'm not gonna name it because it just came to me who it was, but it's like every time there's some trumped up lacrosse ball or a Thera gun. And you wanna deal with scar tissue? Put a three-quarter inch jigsaw blade.

Starting point is 00:40:48 That's the only way you're going to change a fucking actual structure of that muscle. Every time you got a wine cork at the end of your fucking dremel, you're not doing shit. But they can sell it because they sell you a fucking problem and they give you the solution. And it's bullshit. And they'll tell you that they're liberating. It's like, no, you're fucking not. You're keeping them under the hammer and sickle you're not teaching them anything. It's such a hard-wired formula to sell a product

Starting point is 00:41:10 Which is something that again Bit like bringing it back to the consumer that that's a that's a over hill battle for us is trying to be educators to overcome Well sure because you're selling them on the problems. You know what your problem is you're fucking stupid I got a solution. You can tell your listeners that they're gonna buy shit. Well, we don't say it like that. I'd rather convert a higher percent of a lower amount of people.

Starting point is 00:41:34 I don't know. I think the people you convert, the people who are gonna be smarter enough to realize that they don't know it all. Just realize this. If you have a problem, it means you don't know enough. Because if you did, you wouldn't have that problem. That's really the bottom line.

Starting point is 00:41:49 I don't care what your issue is. I don't care if it's fitness, health, your life, your marriage, your work. If you're in a situation where you're like, this sucks, this is a problem. Realize you just don't have the right information to solve that problem. Or you have the information,

Starting point is 00:42:03 but you don't have enough information to learn how to implement it, or the wherewithal, or even just the guts to do it, all of which is just a level of ignorance. But then you're telling people that they have to take responsibility for themselves. Yep, right. Good luck selling that in this world.

Starting point is 00:42:17 Well, actually, it's funny, you say that, there is this change in the culture that I'm starting to see. I mean, I really follow things like politics and you look at some of the things that are now popular on YouTube and videos and articles people are reading. There is this shift in the culture right now where that's starting to become cool. It's starting to become cool to tell people to become more responsible for themselves, to be the change you want in the world. That's something that's starting to resonate with people.

Starting point is 00:42:48 And I think it's because we've been sold the other bill of goods for so long that leads to like, shit, like what do I do? Life feels like there's no purpose. And so I feel like that old message, that old wisdom, starting to come back a little bit. It feels that way at least. Yeah, yeah, but so we're high top sneakers.

Starting point is 00:43:05 It's EBS and Flows, man, you know, it's like, it's, what are we gonna say? I'm talking to everyone out of stuff. What? I'm talking to dad socks over here. Yeah. But it's like, and this is the thing, when you start to look at the cyclical reiterations of ideas

Starting point is 00:43:20 over time, it's like, are we just, who's going to be the poster the, the poster boy for the, like what Gandhi said that before, like, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. All right. Peter's in the new Gandhi is that the 50 year iteration of this from 1947 to liberation of India and the Commonwealth, you know, to Peter sin fucking what 60 years later. I think he was Michael Jackson's man, the mirror. Oh, is that what it was? How is that much of the change?

Starting point is 00:43:49 But yeah, so for me, it's just like, then you start to see patterns of this and then, okay, is it just gonna fall away side again only to research? That's interesting. It's interesting that you say, like, Evan and Floek is I've always looked at it like a pendulum thing, right? So I guess you're right.

Starting point is 00:44:02 I mean, it swings one way, we go super extreme and then it's like, oh, fuck, this is killing people. It's not a real idea of swing that. Yeah, right? And then we come back the other way. Then we'll probably go to that extreme and then come back again. And I think in the arena, in the fitness arena, there's no, there's no more concentrated market of that pendulum effect to ying and yang like that in such a short period of time. Because it's like, it's just hyper-extremes. Like we talked about earlier, like, you know, you guys are at paleo-effects,

Starting point is 00:44:27 like, where would that been 20 years ago, right? Who you never were so, but now it's too far, rain and in, rain and in, rain and in, holy fuck. What's going on? Please put shoes on. Why are you burning that shit? What's going on? Why are you eating?

Starting point is 00:44:38 Don't eat that. Like, that's the way I look at it now, where at some point, at some point it'll centrate, but then at some point it'll veer right again. I don't know, it'll just cost you. It's definitely swinging hard that way right now. It's crazy that we, I remember we went to Paleo what two or three years ago the first time,

Starting point is 00:44:52 and I remember walking in there and it's being like, it's so opposite of a bodybuilding convention. But also the same. But so same, it's so much the same. Very, very similar. You know what I'm saying? It's like you traded out the pre workouts and the stringers for blue blockers in Jesus' handles.

Starting point is 00:45:10 Like it's literally- And bone broth. Yeah, it's the same thing, but different. It's really unfortunate because I, and I believe there's a little bit of good in all of it. You know what I'm saying? There's something to take from all these different camps. I just don't understand.

Starting point is 00:45:23 But I think I wanna believe that people like all of us and the message that we all kind of shares, I wanna think that that's gonna become more popular and people are gonna get wiser. I guess. They are. I think it was easier to fool people 10, 15 years ago. Anytime, through our human history,

Starting point is 00:45:39 when information has become more accessible to more people, we've made incredible advancements. Now that doesn't mean along the way, bad shit happened and there was a lot of pushback. But for sure, I mean, the internet is, it's like the printing press, but times a trillion. You know, I mean, when the printing press was invented, you get to understand,

Starting point is 00:45:58 the only people that access to information were nobles and the church. And the way you got your information was through what they said to you, because they were the holders of this information. They were the gatekeepers. And so through their voice, right, imagine how long it took like cities to get on board with shit that was like stupid or bad ideas like back in the days, who would take like

Starting point is 00:46:15 a year for to travel from like one side of the country. The original best-selling book of all time was after the printing press was Mark Ropolo's books on his travels. And that must have blown people's fucking minds to read this book about these weird people living across the world and animals and what the hell is going on and maybe things are little different. You know, it's largely believed to usher in the Renaissance. Now we have the internet where holy shit, man, I can access any, I can access all of the

Starting point is 00:46:42 recorded information that we've ever had throughout all of human history for almost free That's insane the problem that we're having is that there is that Curation I was yeah, you your information is being curated well This is what we talk about so I believe in the future. You're gonna that's what you're gonna need to be able to do And we talk about this on the show all the time, that you know, you will need to look for the opposing argument and everything that gets sent to you. If you don't, you gotta be very careful because if you, and that's,

Starting point is 00:47:13 it's a marketplace for information, just like anything else. Because you like this, you like that, then all of a sudden you're being fed, all the things you already like and all the things you already agree with, which we know how dangerous that can be. Well, not even just being fetid,

Starting point is 00:47:26 your ability to find a counterpoint, if that counterpoint, because it's all privatized, right? Like the biggest publishing house, you know, it's not Gutenberg, it's Zuckerberg, right? That's it. So when it's a burger. He's, okay, we're not gonna pick it up.

Starting point is 00:47:39 Okay, we're gonna raise that in. Yeah. But like, you know, I'm not trying to make it. We're gonna make it. Just the last name. What? When you're like, you know, when you see, like, when you see things like YouTube, you know,

Starting point is 00:47:55 taking down videos of, you know, I have patients at work and they tell me about the landscape of the political culture within the company and it's like they're very proud of it but that some of that pride might be based in ignorant conscientiousness. Yeah, bias, right? Yeah, but bias is, I don't think it's a bad thing. They're not able to discern bias and novelty, which is something that I think a lot of people have a hard time differentiating with.

Starting point is 00:48:23 It's like, you're just hardwired if you see something different to just have a latent, because it's like, oh, that's new, right? But I think if these are the, if they're going to lengths to override the human experience online and not be able to give you or withhold the information of some sort of counterpoint, I really think that that's a scary process. I think that's always been a problem, but I think it's less of a problem, far less of a problem today than ever, because there are so many channels in ways to deliver information and things can go viral,

Starting point is 00:48:53 and they're almost impossible to control. It's very difficult now to control information. If something pops out, like information, look, here's a good example, okay? A company like Uber or Airbnb would never, ever, ever, ever be allowed to exist had they not existed because of technology faster than people could try to put a lid on them. They would never be allowed to exist. There's no way in hell the taxi cab fucking cartels or the hotel cartels would ever allow

Starting point is 00:49:20 those businesses to flourish. The problem was they flourished, it's, because of technology, they explode it fast and they, but he could fucking figure out what to do about. Now they're trying to put limits on them. Good luck. And that's how, look at, when 3D printers go fucking live, like just wait till 3D printers are cheap and very, very, in very advanced,

Starting point is 00:49:40 try to control guns when you can print your own at home. Good luck. It's not gonna happen. Not gonna happen. And this is with everything. So is it a good or bad thing? Here's the way I look at it. If mankind is destined to succeed, it will speed up that process.

Starting point is 00:49:56 If we're destined to fail and implode, it will also speed up that process. It's up to us. I'm a firm believer and let us do what we're gonna do. Let us be free. Let the information about so far. It's been a fucking great thing. I just think I mean we're all speaking from a place of When we look to get educated on topic we'll go down the necessary rabbit holes to find the education I think the majority of people their news is just

Starting point is 00:50:19 curtailed for them and presented in their you know things you might like on YouTube So it's very much it puts them on their own echo chamber exactly. So I think the the the issue is, you know, comes down to the individual, it comes down to the consumer, whether it's a consumer of fitness products or a consumer of information. It's doing the due diligence, but like you said with fitness, it's like, give me that pill, give me that thing that's gonna fix me in 30 days and it's with it's that same mindset, which is the base of the market. Whether your market is a news channel based off sensationalism or whether you're selling a fucking jazzer size

Starting point is 00:50:53 or whatever the fuck is the same thing. It's speeding up in the question. I know, it's actually, it's speeding up. We have questions. We can go get to that for a second. It's speeding up the process. I'll give you two more examples, okay? You look at the gay marriage.

Starting point is 00:51:05 This is a great example. In 2008 was so unpopular that if you campaigned for gay marriage, no way you would have won office. In fact, Obama and Hillary Clinton both campaigned and in their campaign said, no, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. Four years later, four years later, you would not get elected had you said that.

Starting point is 00:51:24 That's within four years. Look years later you would not get elected had you said that that's within four years here look at marijuana legalization the fastest public swing we've ever seen in in in a topic like that to the point now where we have the president is a two-year republican literally saying i will back federal decriminalization of marijuana movements like this used to take decades like the women's

Starting point is 00:51:43 suffrage movement decades, civil rights movement decades. Now it's like five or ten years and this is technology. It's going to speed up. Very fast. That's why I think these, so when I see these people doing things like we see in our space as far as all the gimmicks, like it used to get me mad, it doesn't make me mad anymore because I, it puts a grin on my face. I'm like, that means that's lots of opportunity for people like us. Because it may be a little bit slower process for us right now, but we're in this for a long haul. And those people might make it quick to a million dollars

Starting point is 00:52:13 and make that quick buck. But eventually what happens is those people that go through all that they find out, it's a gimmick. And then just like, they just take them, they have to fuck up first. You're smart enough because you've done the research, you're willing to do the homework. You know what you're doing? You want to educate yourself first. You're smart enough because you've done the research, you're willing to do the homework. You know what you're doing?

Starting point is 00:52:25 You want to educate yourself. They're not smart enough to do that. So they buy into it, they buy into it, they find out it's for the day. Here's a good example. Look what Amazon did. In the past, 10 years ago, if I wanted to buy a supplement, I would go buy the reputable looking brand

Starting point is 00:52:39 or by the athlete that was on the cover of the magazine that was selling it. Today, I don't give a shit about any of that. For the most part, I'll go to Amazon and I'll look at the fucking ratings. Oh, 175 ratings, five star. This is a good one. I think I'm gonna buy this one and take it. Will you, though?

Starting point is 00:52:55 Will you? You're more conscientious than that to put it in your body based on the public opinion. Oh, I'm talking about the average person. 100% because that's curtailed. That's just as if YouTube is taking down counterpoint videos, Amazon is rising this public court of opinion and presenting this to you. That's people not doing their homework, right?

Starting point is 00:53:13 I think there's some, but that's the thing. There's way more information in that rating. There's more information in the rating that I can look at my Uber driver on my app than there was in some agency that said that this person is safe, or if I go to a restaurant, oh, it's got an A rating versus I go on Yelp and I see, but it's got three stars,

Starting point is 00:53:32 because they said that there was a cockroach in their food, whatever. Like, it's definitely, the problem with markets always has been an information problem. How fast can information travel? That's always been the issue, because by the time information gets around, people have gotten screwed. Well, is it like how people knocked Wikipedia when it first came out, right?

Starting point is 00:53:49 Yeah, I think it comes down to publication bias though. If I have a nice, and I've had some nice meals, I'm not going to go, I don't think Thomas Keller needs a paddle in the back. If I'm going to go to French laundry, I'm not going to give him five stars. It's the fucking guy who like didn't like the the waiter because he was Italian and you know, he's frontal. Yeah, he got pissed off with the pineapple in his pizza and all of a sudden, but it's and that's what I think is a big issue is the publication bias, right? Like because and but you know, if I'm in a small if I'm in Bishop California and I need to place which was the case yesterday. Sure. Yeah, fine, fine, whatever. You know,

Starting point is 00:54:23 if I need to find pancake somewhere, I'll go down that route. But if someone's doing an interon me, you better believe I'm not I'm not leaving that that verdict subject to the public court of opinion. Because people, especially disgruntled people, there is no more entitlement in this country than someone who's pissed off and has spent money. So it's like every there's that in the incentivize other business owners, they have to rate and review in order to then receive rate and review. Yeah, well, don't even get me being a small business owner

Starting point is 00:54:47 in the Silicon Valley and dealing with Yelp on a next-a-daily basis. Oh, you know what the next level of that is gonna be, right? The next level of that is gonna be, you're gonna go to a business and rather than looking at random strangers who rated that business, you're gonna connect through Facebook or whatever and see all the people that you know that have gone there

Starting point is 00:55:03 and what their ratings are I would be way more I would be even another level of accuracy. I would appreciate like I have a friend of mine. He's my movie critic If he likes a movie, I don't go fucking see it because he's got shitty tastes So I know that I could at least interpret you know Value in that I knew exactly all the all the people that are connected to me what they like or didn't like exactly That would be more trustworthy than just random 500 people. I don't like this hotel, it's probably super fucking expensive.

Starting point is 00:55:28 I'm not gonna lie. But superplush and comfortable. Questions, let's do it, Doug. This quaz brought to you by Organify. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organify fills the gap with laboratory-tested, certified, organic superfoods to help give your health a performance the added edge. organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organified fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified

Starting point is 00:55:45 organic superfoods to help give your health the performance the added edge. Try Organified, totally risk-free for 60 days by going to organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. And use a coupon code MindPump for 20% off at checkout. What I was gonna ask Jordan was, Ben and his kiddo, Ginnig diet and how that's been going.

Starting point is 00:56:08 And if he knew that if he was using butcher box and not and if you're familiar with butcher box yet. Both questions keep it real short. I have no idea and I have no idea. Oh yeah, okay. So butcher box is cool. It's grass fed and grass finished beef that gets shipped to your house.

Starting point is 00:56:22 And they could out the middle man. Super quality. Super quality. You get a wholesale prices like triple-A quality type meat. Super dope. It's like a subscription model and they eliminate the middleman and the super super. You would actually really like it. Yeah, as you can say, off-air,

Starting point is 00:56:36 I'm probably gonna pick your brand about that. Yeah, I know. I'm putting it back lately. Well, you know what we'll do is we'll give you the code. What is the code? Dumb pump. Is it just mine pump? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:56:47 Butcherbox.com. Do they forward slash mine pump? All right, why don't you use that Jordan so you can get our discount? Right. What a friend. I got it here, right? So no, no, you'll like it.

Starting point is 00:56:58 Bro, we'll make so much commission off of him. This guy's I wanna kind of that. That's bullshit. We don't make commission off of him so it doesn't really matter. We should've done with that. But you save a bunch of money on it

Starting point is 00:57:07 and you get bacon for life, bro. Oh, yeah. You get life, that's what you're really. Well, the next time that you get a life, I'd be pretty fucking sure. You've got a lifetime supply of it. But he's got three months to stop. They just started that promotion.

Starting point is 00:57:19 I'm like, oh my god, that's like the best deal ever. I'm fucking bacon for life. I'm sold just on that alone. Exactly. Bring on the questions Douglas. I know I have a microphone. Oh, he doesn't get a mic because we're going with four and he didn't have to read himself.

Starting point is 00:57:30 Yeah, all right. First question is from Tom J18. Can cracking or popping joints such as cracking knuckles or neck cause arthritis or damage to the joints before you get into this. We got to start with the professional cracker. We got to start with here. Well, here's a deal.

Starting point is 00:57:48 I feel like that's what my diploma says. Yeah. I want to whack him in cracker. I feel like we should say something before he does, because he's obviously this is his realm of expertise. Now, my understanding when a joint makes a sound where it pops, it's like pulling a suction cup off of a mirror, right, or a window where there's pressure that's being created.

Starting point is 00:58:09 You pull it off, that fluid goes into the space that you created, the air comes out, or the gas comes out, and it creates a pop. So that's all that's kind of happening. For my understanding, when a chiropractor does this to your spine or your neck, and I think it might have been you, Dr. Shalow, that told us this, which I thought was absolutely brilliant. When you're adjusting someone, it's allowing you to move and articulate small areas or small

Starting point is 00:58:38 parts of joints that weren't moving, they were kind of frozen, and that release of the ability to move and all the muscles were in. I used to think it was just air in the joints. I used to think it was air in here. It's a gas. Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought. Let's hear it, dude. Okay.

Starting point is 00:58:50 Did you see the back of your head with that way you rolled your eyes out? No, no, no. It's all the- It's called the Dr. Sharon. No, I was very- No, Dr. Shal is my sister. I don't know if this is me working right now.

Starting point is 00:59:00 What about- No, no, no, you're good. I just think it's such a common misconception. It depends on the joint, too. First off, the arthritis thing is no. From the research I've read, based off longitudinal studies, go to an old folks home asking

Starting point is 00:59:11 how many people have arthritis, show hands, how many people crack their knuckles their whole life, show hands. You're not going to see that correlation as direct as your mother would tell you when you're five years old crack, you're knuckles saying you're going to be arthritis when you're older.

Starting point is 00:59:21 Now, the physiological effect, the popping, especially in the spine, which is kind of the realm of the chiropractic deal, and although we do adjust extremities, which I think is a little bit more, that's more, extremity adjusting is actually more physical alignment as it pertains to the adjacent position of two bones in the function that they're gonna have as they work kind of symbiotically

Starting point is 00:59:41 together to go through like broader ranges of motion, then the actual spinal adjusting, where I think spinal adjusting is way more, the popping is almost a, it's kind of contemporaneously. It occurs in simultaneous with the actual effective mechanism of correction, where it's not, the pop doesn't necessarily mean good or bad. It just happens sometimes with the... Yeah, I think it's more so activating a stretch reflex and understanding kind of the

Starting point is 01:00:08 the neuro musculature of your spine itself. Like when, you know, the multifidus would probably be the most widely used even though that's kind of fairly rare. Like if I said rotatories or intertransversary eye or some of these deeper layer, deeper layers, seventh layer back muscles that are integrated by part with your spinal cord

Starting point is 01:00:25 that you can't consciously control. If I said flex your multifidus, you can't do it, right? You can put yourself in a position where that reflex loop of that dorsal spinal nerve can activate that muscle. The problem is, and the adjusting the cracking of the back and neck is when you crack your own back and you rotate it, you're using large muscles to create an end range, and then you're creating an imbalance where you're actually biasing

Starting point is 01:00:55 a relative motion, a counter motion between two of those adjacent vertebrae, when it's passive and I do it, it's completely inert and that stretch reflex is activated without being. So you're trying to activate a stretch reflex. And now, by the way, when you are doing these adjustments, is there research that shows, because I think I read something that shows that there's a localized pain relief that happens from, it's almost like your body's relieving or releasing pain relievers at the site of the adjustment, almost like when you foam roll

Starting point is 01:01:26 and you feel immediate relief. From what are they called? No sewersceptors that get active? No sewersceptors, but I think to the proprioceptors and stretch reflexes, it's basically, whatever the intervention is, you're more or less from a functional sample you're trying to have an effect on the nervous system.

Starting point is 01:01:42 Always. But think of the locus of motor control, right? It's prefrontal cortex creates this motor pattern against put out through, spinal cord, through ventral spinal nerves. So if I said flexure, bicep, or flexure quad, that's ventral spinal nerves through the front of the spinal cord.

Starting point is 01:02:02 Then there's a reflex sensory input loop through. And then you kind of have this like a posterior column that's gonna calibrate for like proprioception and position in space and then. So let's feed back to the brain. It's feedback to the brain. So if it goes brain to brain to muscle, muscle pulls tendon, tendon moves bone,

Starting point is 01:02:21 ligament, stabilized position, bone, why would I then start with bone when I can go right to muscle? Right? So when I address, when I address extremity issues, I can, you know, you have hip issues, I'm going to go right to you, the muscle first, because that's the, it's one deviation closer to the, to the nervous system than the bone. Right. There's no osseus nervous. You're taking out the middle, man. Yeah, there's no osseus neural junction. It's my own neural, right? So if I can get access to that nervous system and the perception of that nervous system

Starting point is 01:02:48 from the muscle that I'm gonna try and do that. So the way I think about it too is like, and I'm gonna use a very simple muscle people can understand, because I mostly understand what you're saying, but it's very complicated. And some people listening right now, right now might be like, what, okay, so I'm gonna use

Starting point is 01:03:01 a shitch, and I pop my knuckles or not. You don't like that. No, I'm gonna use a very simple, simple, basic, the bicep. Sometimes people would come in and hire me and work out with them, and they'd have a sore, the front of the shoulder would be sore. And I'm just gonna sit, I'd have to do an assessment

Starting point is 01:03:16 and all that, but then I would establish, like, oh, you have some inflammation at the bicep joint, or excuse me, the bicep tendon, which goes over the front of the shoulder. Perhaps. Stretch out the bicep, and many times, immediately they would have a little bit of relief. Now, the way I think about it is,

Starting point is 01:03:31 the bicep might have been tight due to poor function, for maybe it was overused, whatever. It's in that kind of constant state of tonus that might be happening from the central nervous system. That stretch gets the CNS to relax a little bit, and that's why they feel a little bit of pain relief. When you go deep into these deep, deep muscles that are, like you said, layers and layers deep,

Starting point is 01:03:52 muscles that we can't really consciously control, getting them to stretch and move, like good luck doing that, especially if you're locked up because you have poor recruitment patterns. Then you go see someone like you who, besides all the other things you do, because just adjusting someone,

Starting point is 01:04:07 I think it's a small piece of really what you do, but the adjustment gets those muscles to move a little bit and stretch a little bit, which tells a central nervous system, chill the fuck out for a second, and they get the pain relief. Am I doing it justice? Am I explaining it in a way that? Yeah, yeah, okay.

Starting point is 01:04:21 Basically, these muscles that we're trying to affect are there to protect your spinal cord, right? Because they just run from bony prominence on like they run from bone to bone in your back from vertebrae vertebrae very small. So if you know, one vertebrae moves through a plane of motion relative to its other too far, whether it's flexion extension or lateral flexion of rotation, like the majority

Starting point is 01:04:43 of people that come in my office, it's never a good story. Like when I get you like the very stereotypical, like I threw out my back thing where I slipped a disc and it's like, all right, sure, but we don't have time for that. But it's what's happened is they've moved in a position usually in all three planes of motion once. It's, I was leaning over to pick something up,

Starting point is 01:04:59 I twisted to the side and then I rotated, it's like, okay, there's a muscle that's getting stretched. Each time you move that. But it's accounting for is if this bone one moves too far into bone two, in the middle of bone one and two is a spinal cord that we really would like to go through life without impacting because what we like walking and controlling bowel and bladder function. So these muscles are like the second they perceive that stretch, fuck, don't move any more.

Starting point is 01:05:28 Yeah, so it's like, you need to, you know, just like, Wow, that's interesting. So is that, when someone comes in, complaining of slip disc or whatever, is that more common that it's more related to that than it actually is? Well, correct me if I'm wrong, Jordan, but many times, you know, slip disc or bulging disc,

Starting point is 01:05:46 many times they're asymptomatic. Yes, thank you. Okay, fuck best. So I hope if someone's listening to this and they know someone that has a disc issue, because people wear disc issues like a fucking scar, they carry it with a badge of honor. Yeah, and it's like, oh, sorry, I can't slip disc.

Starting point is 01:06:02 It's like, dude, what, like we're just walking upstairs. I wonder how many people would have a slip disc if you just MRI'd everybody. You probably find 25%. 25%, yeah. And out of that 25%, how many of them would actually feel pain? Oh, it'd be 25% that are asymptomatic.

Starting point is 01:06:14 But here's the thing. So if- So, no symptoms. So, if we think of it, thank you. If we think of it, think of it this way. Okay, so, very commonplace to herniate disc. I'm like a subtitle. So, a very commonplace to herniate disc is in your lower back, right?

Starting point is 01:06:28 So most axial force, we don't have any ribs. You know, if your core is weak, you're not going to have any functional stability, air quoting functional. So often you'll see either at the apex of a curve, so L3, or you add the convergence of a curve, L5S1. So we're like, you know, the sacrum curve bends one way, the lumbar spine curves, another the thoracic spine, and so on and so forth. So what'll happen? So imagine a nerve leaving a spinal segment through vertebra to innovate a motor function, right? So superior gluteal nerve innervates the gluteumetius, right? Which is a lateral

Starting point is 01:07:01 stabilizer of the hip. What do you mean by it leaves it? It prioritizes that. No, so out of that particular spinal level, and I want to say it's L4L5, L4L5, I'm going to have to brush up on this and someone call me out if I'm wrong. I think you're right. So if that nerve leaves and goes to that muscle, so if we're talking purely about the glute meat, which is a lateral stabilizer of the hip, it's the nerve that controls that muscle. Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it. What happens if we think that glute meat is muscle stability, it has to stabilize the hip. It's not a muscle of strength. So every time you get a hip circle or a booty band or do something

Starting point is 01:07:37 like that, you're not training the function of that muscle correctly. Anatomically, base-off origin insertion, resisted abduction and external rotation will, in turn, base off for your anatomy textbook, that'll be the action of the glute. So we're getting it stronger. Cool. But, so say the output of that nerve is 100%. Right? And in a non-pathological, your disc is exactly where it should be. In a perfect world. In a perfect world. But you're training, either so you're not training your glute meat at all, or you're training it with this resistance where it should be. In a perfect world. In a perfect world. But you're training either so you're not training your glute meat at all or you're training it with this resistance where it needs to be stable. The actual function because you're training it to be strong and not stable at best is say

Starting point is 01:08:14 50%. Give an example of that. Sure. Okay, so if you're using a hip circle to do like monster walks with and you know you don't have low back pain. You're really only training that muscle, the glutamine, the hypothetically 50% of whatever it's capable of. That's because of that. That's because of the adaptations are very specific. So to use another example, if I train my bicep to hold the weight stable for a long period of time

Starting point is 01:08:39 in this isometric contraction, most of the adaptations can be isometric. If I train it to curl and extend, I'm going to get some isometric. If I train it to curl and extend, I'm gonna get some isometric strength, but not max out, I'm not gonna maximize its adaptation. I guess the point I'm trying to get at, and this is a bit of an aside, is there's a difference between strength and stability as it comes to stimulus adaptation.

Starting point is 01:08:56 Okay, like, do you speak Italian? I do. Okay, so if I put really, okay, if I put you in like Barcelona, could you order lunch and get on a train? So sure, Latin-based languages have, there's a period over, there's a crossover. So a lot of the research on like, and I'm going to use the

Starting point is 01:09:08 glute meat specifically because it is so inundated into fitness culture and buying, exactly. Right, I'm glad you're going this right now. Yeah, so glute strengthening is a huge market, because they think that's the ticket to like low back pain. Where? Forever thing.

Starting point is 01:09:19 Yeah, exactly, which I think is done because the glute meat works more around helical axis, around a y-axis. Where gravity comes straight down. So the bicep is a great the glute meat works more around a helical axis or round a y axis where gravity Go down gravity comes straight down So the bicep is a great example because that works directly in opposition It has a it has a it has a necessity to be strong So if we think about it if sal didn't work out so not working out and then having back pain So the heaviest thing that you have to lift is your own body weight and then you just want to get back to a baseline of normal That's the equivalent of sal going to Barcelona ordering lunch getting on a train. He's not fluent

Starting point is 01:09:50 He's not he's not physically literate in the in the analogy, but he can get by but now imagine Sal is Sal right Sal is like he's pulling 500 pounds beltless no strap in the garage He's trying to get jack fuck you. He's exactly that's the animal effect. He's now, that's the equivalent in the analogy of him moving to Barcelona and having to live there. You need to speak the right language. If you're pursuing, like, if you're pursuing, like progression in a gym setting or progressive overload, if you're extra physiologically loading your own body.

Starting point is 01:10:25 You need to make sure now that that split between the stimulus adaptation starts to matter. So a lot of the therapeutic interventions, even if it's a well-trained college age male, it's like, all right, well-trained my ass, right? Well-trained to compete, compared to anyone in this room, they're not trained at all, right? So going back to the disc example. So if we're not training the function of that glute properly, and now we have a ceiling of 100% we're only training at 50, then you slip a disc like actually herniate or have

Starting point is 01:10:51 a bulging disc or sequestration of that fluid outside of the annulus fibrosis, then let's say the function now or the ability for that muscle to transmit force, right? Goes from 100 to 70, relatively speaking, because you've only trained 50% of the actual function of that, because there's some carryover, if you know Italian and you're going to Spain, there's some carryover to building resistance against ability. But now you've dropped 30% here. Your 50% function goes from 50 to 20 somewhere in that range is your threshold for pain. I would rather take 100% of 70 than 50% function goes from 50 to 20 somewhere in that range is your threshold for paint. I would rather take a hundred percent of 70 than 50% of 100, but it's just people cross that threshold. They see a black and white on MRI and they go, there it is.

Starting point is 01:11:33 That's the issue. It's like, no, no, it's the dysfunction. We can fix the function and we don't have to worry about the structure. Right. So that's how I look at it for something like a bulging disk where it's like figure out where the function is going wrong. And that's the most common when I see because people don't understand because you don't have to, you can't sell. No, and they people think of it like a broken bone. It's not a broken bone. It's not like having a broken femur where you got to let the femur heal. Like again, you could literally MRI, you

Starting point is 01:12:02 could image a hundred people. You're're gonna find a good chunk of them, we're gonna have herniated or slipped discs, and a good chunk of those people aren't gonna have any symptoms whatsoever. And then you get people with pain for no apparent reason whatsoever. It always goes back to dysfunction, unless it's an acute injury.

Starting point is 01:12:21 Chronic pain is typically just dysfunction. But the problem is we don't have standardized gold. The majority of people don't have the facilities in which to standardize assessment for function. People have tried, but it's so hard because you can't. It's too individual, isn't it? Exactly, but you need to understand the core times of biomechanics to really be able to apply it

Starting point is 01:12:41 across the board. Just with training, right? Like you need to understand the different loading parameters that people are gonna be capable of, right? Unlike understanding that the scale for someone in this room and that's why my practice has become so niche to athletics is understanding that here are the core tenets, but here's how we scale out the stimulus to have an effect on the nervous system of someone

Starting point is 01:12:59 that can squat 900 pounds, right? So it's being able to walk that fine line. Like the majority of people, like if you had a 600 pound client and you were even the most inept personal training in the world, you could get that guy to lose 100 pounds, right? Just based off of like, you could food pyramid the guy. Like you go back to 1995, food pyramid him and you still

Starting point is 01:13:19 be able to get to lose 100 pounds. I take someone, that from 6 percent to five percent by fat. That takes someone in this room to do it. Right? That's the thing. Definitely. All right, so the next question is from Brady Cherisse. Any exercises or tips for strengthening ankles?

Starting point is 01:13:37 I broke mine about eight years ago, so I'm super prone to rolling it. Like to go on long hikes and runs a few times a week, but inside of ankle and Achilles feels very inflamed when done. You know, it's funny when people say I broke something and so now I'm super prone to hurting it, I think what people think that they,

Starting point is 01:13:56 or what they feel is because it's broken, it's the tendency to hurt it again because it's been damaged is much higher. The reality is because it broke, first off, something caused you to break it. It may have been a bad recruitment pattern, maybe not. But after you broke it, you definitely weren't using it in its most optimal way because it was in a cast or whatever. Then you were healing.

Starting point is 01:14:17 You were probably walking funny. So now you've created just bad patterning, which makes you more prone to injury. Yeah, but you don't really think that a broken ankle is coming from a bad pattern Do you I mean that's it that's it could be or it could be something else? So you think you so you're thinking along the lines like I break my ankle playing a sport and because I have a bad recruitment pattern I my foot didn't strike the ground the way it should have I was a stable somewhere that just came or even the ability to react to Yeah, that's right like I mean I have a friend of mine Cory slasengers a strength coach for the men's basketball team at Stanford or even the ability to react to stimulus, right?

Starting point is 01:14:45 Like, I mean, I have a friend of mine, Cory Slesinger is a strength coach for the men's basketball team at Stanford, and you should see some of the stuff he's doing with, like, and I'm not a flow guy, right? Like, I'm not a primal movement, I'm gonna get the fuck off the ground. But he thinks, but think of it,

Starting point is 01:14:58 like, I think of things like, I'll see it though. The rate, what's your bottleneck, right? Like, so I look at strength like an equation, right? Like, if my squat is a value that's expressed on the strength of my quad, the strength of my hamstrings, the stability of my core,

Starting point is 01:15:13 the strength of my upper back, what a lot of people do will do will do the work inside that equation. I'm going to isolate my quads to get them stronger and then that should appreciate the strength of my squat. But the way I program for people is what's going to be the multiplier on the outside of that equation. With what little I know about math, as you solve for the brackets first and then you times

Starting point is 01:15:32 out from outside the bracket. So we can solve inside all we want, but if this multiplier outside the bracket isn't one, again, it's just like the distance. I would rather take 100% of accumulative 85% of relative muscle strength within that movement pattern Then try and focus on I'm in front squad. I'm an RDL. I'm at hamstrings big my quad's big And then have a blown ass. I joined that puts my multiplier to point five right? So what what Corey does link? Yeah, which is really interesting in sports like you almost said it like you know kind of shit Happens right shit happens in sports

Starting point is 01:16:03 Well, he'll he'll have his basketball players do calf raises on his other players feet barefoot. So like getting that reactive stability to, well, it's not so much what happens when you roll this ankle, is how much can you stabilize on the other hip on the drop of a hat? So like, dude, we just, you don't think I rolled my fucking ankles,

Starting point is 01:16:23 walking up that goddamn hill, like 10 million times, but I trained so much unilateral hips stability. And we had this kind of on the Q&A earlier, on the Facebook live where it's like, I think so much of that, that rehabilitation after a break, because once you damage the structure, it's the same thing. Like, I've, I got hit by a Chevy Suburban like five years ago, a T-bone in the middle of an intersection. I had to melgibs and lethal weapon to my shoulder back into place in the middle of the street. Yeah, but I mean, you guys know rotator cuffs enough to know that we can regain function,

Starting point is 01:16:52 we can regain structural integrity through improving the function. The ankle's totally different. Contract your anterior talo-fibular ligament. You can't do it if you broke his ankle. I likely that one went. So rather than worrying locally as the integrity of the foot, worry about how we're setting the trajectory of the ground forces

Starting point is 01:17:11 for that foot to absorb force. Totally. First place. Totally because what Western medicine tends, sometimes tends to do is they'll look, oh, your knee hurts, we're just going to look at your knee. And it's like, yeah, well, it could be from your hip, it could be from your ankle. It could be from your ankle.

Starting point is 01:17:25 With an ankle issue, I would look to the hip and I would look at the foot. Those are the most mobile places that are, you know, more proximal to the ankle, but are not the ankle itself. So if your hip, if you have a weakness in your hip, if your hip can't stabilize laterally, does it rotate well, whatever,

Starting point is 01:17:41 and you go to make a turn or cut or whatever, and that hip isn't strong enough or stable enough to support you, it goes right to the next joint, and if your ankle's not strong enough, now it goes to the joint itself, and then it goes to the ligaments, and if those ligaments aren't strong enough,

Starting point is 01:17:56 you tore something, or you hurt something. I mean, I got blown away just by learning, Dr. Brink blew us away with how dysfunctional feet are on people nowadays. It's absolutely insane and how much of an impact that has on like my squat. When I started working on my feet, I started feeling more stable in my ankles. And it sounds obvious now, but it wasn't so obvious then. I thought it was all about just my ankle. So something that I'll do is I'll walk on my tippy toes.

Starting point is 01:18:23 I do tippy toe squats. I'll also get on the edges of my feet and I'll squat like this. I mean, is there any value to the, doing all those things? Do you share it? I mean, it's just like, I like training fringe ranges of motion. Like I talked about earlier with training purposeful thoracic flexion in the spine.

Starting point is 01:18:41 So the series we've done on the Mind Pump YouTube channel where it's like, I know a lot of people are like, whoa, that looks really scary, but it's so controlled. You know what's scary? Life life is sports fucking sports Yeah, no scary. Yeah exactly so I think it's I mean we could we could boil this out to I mean we could take this down like a like a Philosophy route as well, right like that is essentially stoicism like it's a stoic means of training your own body. It's like put yourself in a position either mentally where things are really bad. And then everything relatively seems okay. It's the same thing with building resiliency

Starting point is 01:19:12 and strength in your body. It's like, you know, train those end ranges of motion be prepared for the unknown, like Justin said, where just a quick one for me would be, like when a joint loses its structural integrity, it'll look to gain that and cast it, like neurologically, hey, we know something's not right. So with something like that, I would just look to address some of the muscles that just like with adjusting, right?

Starting point is 01:19:36 The idea of like, okay, I'm trying to bring together a stretch reflex because it's perceived a relative mate motion wellpassed physiological limitations. That's right. Yeah, capacity is a good way to put it. Now all of a sudden, whether it's a multifidus, seizing up to keep L4 and L5 close together, or whether it's the peronials that are seizing up to keep the relative position of the fibula onto the base of the first and the fifth metatarsal, because that relative position has changed. Unless you, again, you don't have to, you know,

Starting point is 01:20:09 you could adjust the ankle if it's indicated, but you could address the actual muscles themselves, because they're so superficial, getting that neurological down regulation to say, hey, there's no more threat. We're not in that position anymore. We don't have to stay chronically short, because that rigidity leads them to being unstable.

Starting point is 01:20:24 It does, and it causes inflammation. When a muscle is in this kind of low level state of being activated because your body thinks that there's an issue there or is afraid to move, that causes inflammation. Tense or flex any muscle all day at 25%. Just do that, clench your hand a little bit, hold it all day long and see if you don't start

Starting point is 01:20:44 to notice inflammation at your fingers and at your wrist. So with something like this, I would say, definitely work on strengthening the ankle itself. For sure, move it through ranges of motion, activate, you know, create tension in those ranges of motion, but also work on your hips, work on your ability

Starting point is 01:21:00 to rotate your hips, work on your ability to abduct and adduct and extend. Because I feel like it's, when I've seen people roll ankles, it's usually coming from a lack of lateral stability in the hips. I can get like that. I tend to train straight forward sometimes that when I'll go finally remind myself, like, well, I should do some lateral stuff.

Starting point is 01:21:21 I can feel like, if I push this too hard, it's not my hip that's going to get hurt, my ankle. That's the weakest link. What do you think about things like, then, like, kin stretch and doing, like, a combat stretch that's activated, where so you get yourself in this, you drive the knee all the way over the toe. Or isometric kind of, like, tension that you're applying in. It's like a first-use motion. Yeah, well, it depends on if the bottle, that could rate limit strength or stability. If you're going to apply that PNF type principle,

Starting point is 01:21:47 where you're contracting in an N-range of motion, that contraction is not going to be evoking a greater stimulus of instability. It's going to be adding some level of resistance or isometrics. I think it could be potentially damaging. And the reason I think this is because we have to go back to stability being appeased by structure and function.

Starting point is 01:22:05 When you're in that end range of motion, it's like, yeah, there is going to be a stretch applied to the function of the muscle kind of on trial. But with that, you're also taking to end range a ligament or a tendon or a joint capsule or some sort of articulating soft tissue or something like that. That's why I think stretching your low back is so bad. Or the inversion stuff, or people hanging upside down with bands and distract. Well, you know what they like that? Because it's temporary relief. Sure, but it's a positive feedback loop. The more you do it, the more you're going to have to do it.

Starting point is 01:22:40 Because you're not addressing the reason why those muscles are tight. That's right. You're bringing to N-Range, so the problem I have with some of that end range contract 90, 90 stuff like we're discussing off air is that especially with hips is like the issues are usually when the person is loaded on their feet and if the intervention is not testing as close to that objective outcome as we can, i.e. you're laying on the ground with your knees on the floor rather than standing on the ground with your feet on the floor, the responsiveness and the neurological adaptation that comes with loading one foot on the ground as far as evoking instability is going to be so much greater than somebody.

Starting point is 01:23:15 So let's talk about that for a second because I'm somebody who I know struggled with internal rotation of my hips in the 1990. I mentioned you with activating it, lifting my feet up off the ground was a, I told you, game changer, you laughed at me. And so, you didn't stop lifting either. No, of course you did that. Yeah, but I would like to hear what, Jordan, like, because I know Jordan's probably

Starting point is 01:23:33 not getting down in a 1990, but if you were to give me movements or exercises that you think would fit me if I lack internal rotation of my hips, what would that look like? Because he's saying standing, what would I be doing standing? Oh, so I mean, if we think and this is a thing It's not it's not obvious to most people why we need internal rotation of the hip for bilateral load and movement Like the squad. Why do I need internal rotation? It's what it's think of it more like an arc of rotation

Starting point is 01:23:57 It's a bit of a debate over isn't it? It kind of but it's just a misunderstanding of when we need internal tracking So think of a baseball player, right? Like a baseball player or a pitcher, for example, when, so pitchers are often diagnosed with gourd, right? Not a gut issue, but general internal, or glenohumeral internal rotation deficiency. They're not deficient in internal rotation. They're arc of external rotation. Their arc of rotation is retroverted, right?

Starting point is 01:24:23 So if my biceps stronger in the shortest position in the length of position or right in the middle? Probably in the middle of the shoulder. The track is short. Exactly. Well, it's right in the middle from a length tension relationship. So imagine I'm trying to generate force through my shoulder

Starting point is 01:24:36 when I'm pitching, but that end range of motion from the prime mover standpoint is to a point where it's stretching everything because I'm so biased in extra rotation because that's where I'm starting when I pitch. If you take the majority of powerlifters and get them to lay face up, their toes are pointing to either side of the room because they're biasing that external rotation. So when they're in that bottom position, so it's not so much improving, so it is in a sense improving internal rotation, but it's antireverting the arc of rotation so that in

Starting point is 01:25:03 the bottom of the squat all our main Movers that are gonna move us vertically are in a position to express strength through a ideal length tension relationship So I think the main mechanism correction with the 90 90 it's almost like when my mom used to trick me into eating vegetables By mixing it up in my spaghetti sauce So it's sorry is that is that culture? it up in my spaghetti sauce. So it's, sorry, is that culture of motivation? No, no, you're good. When she used to make me eat my pineapple, my pudding in my pizza.

Starting point is 01:25:29 God damn it. It's the ability, so you don't need internal rotation in your hips until you're an extension of your hips. So a lot of people, they perceive as an internal rotation issue, is actually a biased towards hip flexion, right? Because if we think of when we're walking, when we need internal rotation, it's when this hips in end range extension. So work on extension first,

Starting point is 01:25:45 and a lot of times I clear it up, but so the 99-year position does have that hip and relative extension. The activation, it's not so much that it's building stability, it's more introverting that arc of rotation, which is in itself not a bad thing, but I think the enemy, so your question was, what exercise could I do?

Starting point is 01:26:03 I think something like hip airplanes or loading using like Miguel planes those Miguel like stand on one leg Miguel airplanes or whatever you do on the single leg and then you Yeah, so you're basically like if you can't stabilize your own body weight with one of your hips You shouldn't try to load more than your own body weight from both of your hips because you're reliant now on structural stability rather than function. So that's structural stability. Or even like maybe Bulgarian split squats. That's a great example.

Starting point is 01:26:31 Yeah, unilateral load, but then it comes down to which hand you loaded it. Because most people intuitively loaded in the gate cycle pattern, which is going to be more the anterior obliques length. But you want to do it in the actually the non-intuitive pattern, which is dumbbell in the hand of the foot that's down Right right so if you're doing a right leg exercise you want to hold the dumbbell with the right hand. Yes, okay Excellent Next question is from freaky Jake. This must be one of your friends Jordan

Starting point is 01:26:55 I see He's not my friend Are the Bosu ball and other stability things a good tool for building needs stability. Now, before we rip into it, and I know we're going to, before we rip into it, here's what I like about stability balls in particular for beginner clients. So as personal trainers, and this is, by the way, your entire routine should not revolve around a stability ball. But I would use them sometimes with beginners,

Starting point is 01:27:22 mainly because it's an easy reminder for that person to stay stable and tight when doing an exercise. That's all it is. People when they tend to sit down on anything or stand, they've developed this pattern where it's almost like their joints are supporting them and they're kind of just standing there and things are, they're not really being able to activate their bodies. When you put someone on a stability ball, especially a beginner, somebody in that super decondition, you want them to fall off, it's like a reminder, like, okay, I got to stay steady and tight so I can do this exercise. That's where I see some of the benefit. Now we can rip into it. Okay, so there's a few things here just sort of the way the question's framed, because

Starting point is 01:28:03 it's talking about knee stability. Knees stability doesn't exist. It's structural entirely. That's right. So yeah, it flexes and extends It flexes and then people are gonna make the argument. What about the VMO? It's like, okay So we got a we got to draw a hard line between knee stability and femur stability Which we'll bring us we'll circle us back to the gate cycle Point that I feel like I've just been reiterating all morning So both of all first I think it's's, this is emblematic of the conversation we had earlier about the pendulum in the fitness industry, where the middle line is education.

Starting point is 01:28:33 It's understanding that if we can implement a stimulus of instability by implementing unilateral loads. So all the stability you need to evoke for your body to be able to get strong, you can generate by altering your base support. Stand on one leg and do shit. Right? So I think on one end of this pendulum swing, we have this resistance, this resistance market where it's like, well, we can't sell people standing on one leg.

Starting point is 01:28:55 So here, put a band around your knees and that's how you're going to stabilize your knees. It's like, all right, we're missing the boat. Plus there's nothing to sell if you tell someone to stand on one leg. Exactly. So on the other side of the industry, we have this extra physiological stimulus of instability that becomes nothing more than a parlor trick and skill adaptation. The transferability of someone who can stand on a bow suit ball or stand on a med ball is not correlative to someone who can stand on one leg.

Starting point is 01:29:16 It doesn't translate. But what does translate is the ability to stand on one leg and then for the ability to deviate your own center of gravity within that limited base of support. Do a single leg RDL. Right, right. Because the knee stability is ACL, MCL, PCL, else. And those things don't move. Those things don't move.

Starting point is 01:29:31 You can't train them. They're inert. It's just structure. No. And I'll tell you what, stability balls and motion balls. Stability balls and motion balls would definitely have a lot of carry over

Starting point is 01:29:41 if the earth was made of stability balls and motion balls. That's what I'm saying. Now that we also got a drawing line in distinction between primary and secondary prevention. You take an aspirin, baby aspirin every day and you haven't had a heart attack, you're still equally likely from a primary prevention standpoint to have that heart attack. Afterwards, there is research to show that that baby aspirin could potentially help secondary prevention. So I think maybe some of the benefit and I don don't know if Ne, and I remember seeing a collegiate female soccer study

Starting point is 01:30:07 that had the Bosew balls in intervention, I don't know if it had a positive or a negative effect on because I think it's... Well, I think I read that same study, and by the way, the reason why they used female athletes is because the rate of ACL tears in female athletes is like twice as high or something. Pierrely morphology.

Starting point is 01:30:27 The cue angle from the hip is gonna set an inward trajectory of that female. So basically women have wider hips, you know, because they're hot. And that angle from hip to knee... Has a big beard birth, I think. The ratio. Yeah, that's probably a little bit lower.

Starting point is 01:30:40 My bad. My bad. Out of spack check, I can't say. No, but no, but because they're hip, their hips are wider and the angle from hip to knee is a sharper angle, it places more stress on those ligaments. You want to strengthen your knee or you want to have better knee stability,

Starting point is 01:30:55 get your hips and ankles more stable because those are mobile as fuck joints. Yeah. The knee doesn't need stability, it's own stability is, it's, what's the word, self-evident. It's got those, yeah. That'sident, it's got those ligaments. But like I said with the stability ball,

Starting point is 01:31:09 you put a client, a new client on a stability ball. I like doing that sometimes because it just reminds them to fucking stay tall and stay tight. You put them on a chair or a bench, and it's like, I gotta keep like, fix your posture, set up tight in your core. You put them on a physical ball, and they're like, oh shit, I'm gonna fall, so I better tighten things up.

Starting point is 01:31:26 And that's where I see the benefit in it, but I don't see any benefit aside from that. But boy, there was a period there in personal training. I'll tell you, you could just push them a little in the middle of the race. Yeah, I'll tell you, in personal training, there was a period there where that's all. I remember when it happened, too.

Starting point is 01:31:42 It was like, we went from people using machines all the time to trainers We're using bands and balls and one that ligate shit on dinodisks for every single I think I really think that the in you you said it real quick But I think circling back to that the single best movement that I've ever taught to do that would be a single Like deadlift use and I think because you're you're getting both it do it barefoot, too You know do a do a barefoot single leg deadlift use. And I think, because you're getting both, do it barefoot too. Do it barefoot single leg deadlift, I feel like you're gonna get a lot of mobility strength all the way from the foot all the way up to the hip,

Starting point is 01:32:11 which then in turn is gonna help protect or keep this knee with the stable leg they want. For sure, but it definitely went too far with the stability stuff. It just got so fucking ridiculous with people doing every single exercise on those things. So, you know, no, as far as needs, stability is concerned, basically what we're saying, traditional exercises for the hips,

Starting point is 01:32:29 the ankles, and unilateral movements probably the best. Next question is from Klepp Zolius Rex. What's the most ridiculous pieces of fitness equipment you have seen? Yeah. God. I mean, it's low-hanginganging fruit man. I love it though. I mean what do we got up here? Well here how about this? Alright how about this? What are the most ridiculous pieces of fitness equipment you see that are actually machines and stuff? Yeah how about

Starting point is 01:32:58 NGibs? These are E2. These are two. The blades the Shakeway Jocs scene on TV. I'd rather pick a part of the part of the machine core core machines load its final flexion. Oh, that's yeah. Oh, I just yeah, like, you know, Hammer Shack makes like the loaded rotational oblique thing and it's like, okay, you clearly know when in at hammer. So what's wrong with that? Let's talk about that first. Sure. All right. So the obliques are so there's every muscle has a primary action, right? Which most people can surmise based off, like, okay, I'm gonna contract my bicep. All right, I'll be flexing. But it's like, it's performance exists in,

Starting point is 01:33:31 it's like a good lie. It devils in the details, right? So I think it exists in the peripheral secondary and tertiary action. So with, you know, we're gonna take, for example, you're on your knees and then you're like, rotating against the resistance of these pads on your shoulders.

Starting point is 01:33:44 You guys know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the obliques. Made my core look awesome. Yeah. But the obliques are, well, first off, core doesn't need to be strong, right? And I fucking feel like a broken wreck because there's a difference between strength

Starting point is 01:33:55 and stability. If there is one takeaway from this episode, that's what I want it to be. So the core is, so I look at the body as three hubs of stability. And basically any pathology from a functional standpoint can be even structural if the goal is to out function that bad structure is shoulder hip and spine. Those are hubs of stability.

Starting point is 01:34:13 Those are going to govern range of motion and strength output period, right? So the way I look at it from a core standpoint, well, that's the, that's the epicenter of our spinal stability. So that needs to be able to resist force really well. So not rotation but counter rotation. I think there is a benefit in having adequate range of motion in trunk rotation. That's huge because that'll affect how our hips have to compensate in high. Especially for sports. Huge, right? I think that's a big underpinning in sports hernias is a discrepancy in trunk stability to hip or trunk mobility and hip mobility.

Starting point is 01:34:47 But I think based off of the external oblique machine, the external oblique is a lateral flexor to one side, to the same side, and it's a rotated to the opposite side, but also posteriorly tilts the pelvis, right? So these machines are just very uniaxial in a sense that it's moving around that y-axis Which is if the only muscle that really does that is the transverse abdominis Pure rotation based off fiber orientation, but again, it's not about shortening the muscle

Starting point is 01:35:13 It's about isometrically resisting force rather than exerting you want you want something to be stable and rigid when it needs to be to prevent injury But I will I'm gonna make an argument on the other side. I'm gonna disagree with you. I'm not disagree with you actually. I'm gonna show another side to this, and that's the aesthetic side, the muscle development side. If you're trying to build a muscle, so that it looks good, nothing builds a muscle like full range of motion through shortening and lengthening.

Starting point is 01:35:37 And so I can see the use in machines like this when someone's like, well look, I like the function part, like you're saying, I wanna have a stable core to prevent injury, but I also want to develop the muscles so they look really cool. Developing muscles, you develop muscles better, more hypertrophy happens when you move them through the strength, you know, the shortening,

Starting point is 01:35:56 the contracting, and the lengthening. And that's where I can see the benefit like if you're doing, you know, people talk about the abs, the obliques, all the muscles around the core to stabilize the spine, but what if you want to build muscles that pop out or show? Well, then you're going to want to throw in some of that other stuff because it's going to develop more muscle. No. To an extent, man, I think if we can improve function, we can improve aesthetics, right?

Starting point is 01:36:19 About beltless work. So this is especially with the extra level. So let's talk about some of the movements that we would do instead of that. Like the first thing that comes in mind for me is like a side plank, activate my glutes, and then put through some movement in there. Yeah, I mean landmine press, overhead, unilateral load. So test or even disadvantage, some of those peripheral hubs of stability,

Starting point is 01:36:40 so that some of that force transfer resistance as far as counter-move movement is now put on the spine, right? So loading, you know, you load a kettlebell overhead pressed in a in a split lunge position is gonna put a lot of demand of rotation Depending on how you load your single single arm dumbbell rows, you can set a trajectory for your hips to Make your spine want to rotate and then use your external obliques from stopping that from happening rather than turning it into a very linear rotation. Exactly. So I think there's great ways to do it and fuck. I mean, you can be 200 pound dumbbells. We're rowing. Like I can that's a heavy loaded exercise. That hammer strength rotation machine only goes up to 150 pounds

Starting point is 01:37:17 and that's on a track. What a good point. Yeah. So I always think I mean I do agree. I do and that's something I differentiate. What's your objective outcome? Yeah. And that's where I start. Like it's I don't like running But if you come into my office and you want to run a marathon all right fuck yeah, let's let's get you there Right if you want to go on stage you want to be on the Olympia all right? We can get it because a lot of people they they understand the functional part They understand the importance of it, but at the end of the day most people work out because I want to look better And so I like to tell people you know both sides of it like okay. Here's okay, here's the functional piece, here's the development piece, or what's going to produce

Starting point is 01:37:47 that, that look that you want. You got to kind of marry the two, but understand this that you're right with the core. It's about stabilization. And that's very important. I mean, if you want to prevent injury, look, that's the most common area people tend to fuck themselves up. And nothing will make you look shitty, like not being able to work out because you hurt yourself. Exactly, and that's a long-term bottleneck is gonna be that injury, right? It is, but I also will say this, and this kind of goes in a little bit on your side.

Starting point is 01:38:12 The most developed bleaks and core muscles I've ever seen were on lean power lifters who'd never did a single crunch or sit up or a rotation exercise, just from stabilizing themselves being able to lift Sumo deadlift. Yeah, sumo deadlift you want to bleak? Sumo deadlift because So when you conventionally deadlift and this is something that I have to talk to a lot when my lifter is about is when you convince the deadlift You're using your lats your lats are crazy stabilizers of rotation of the trunk so strong, right?

Starting point is 01:38:40 And again, we're going down the rabbit hole of tertiary and quattrionary action of the muscle strong right and again we're going down the rabbit hole of tertiary and quattrary action of the muscle but when we're at a disadvantage already shortened position because we're taking a grip inside the knees now if the lats are disadvantaged in managing rotational forces and we're actually invoking more rotational force because if you have one arm that's longer than the other or you have a leg drive and your sumo stance that's stronger on one side the fact that you're grabbing closer in on the bar, there's more force outside your hands

Starting point is 01:39:08 and that's longer lever on the outside. Exactly, so that'll start, you know, you see a lot of people start to helicopter with the sumo deadlift. That's trunk rotation. Well, what do you, I mean, you'll see a higher rate of oblique tears or high groin sprains in the sumo deadlift.

Starting point is 01:39:21 Oh, I didn't even think that. Yeah, that's brilliant. So you sound totally picturing that right now going like, oh shit, what a great way to do all of this. Yeah, so reinforcing the anterior bleak sling, which is the external bleak into the opposite side, high adductors. And if you don't have the function of that,

Starting point is 01:39:34 and you try to load a heavy sumo, and that's what I'll see you guys go from, the sumo puts you at an advantageous position from, you know, if force is work. By mechanics. Yeah, if work is force-time's distance and we're cutting the amount of distance, then we can effectively exert more, or do more work mechanics. Yeah, if work is force times distance, and we're cutting the amount of distance, then we can effectively

Starting point is 01:39:45 exert more or do more work with exerting the same amount of force. So in that stance, everyone is, you know, from biomechanics, like you said, in a position where they could technically load more weight, but they get hurt, because their lots are out of the equation, and in the conventional deadlift, the lots are going to remain supreme. We take those out. Now, maybe we've worked with the belt a lot, which we know to actually diminish the output of The external bleak so here we have this muscle. Let's stand alone now on trial trying to hold up to your max Or if not more than your max because of the biomechanical Now I have a question for you because we just got on deadlifts here for a second knowing the differences between

Starting point is 01:40:20 The sumo deadlift and the conventional deadlift. Do you see Carry over for let's say somebody, I like to pull conventional, that's where I can pull the most weight. Do you see carryover for me, spending cycles getting better at sumo deadlifts? Would there be some carryover there to help me with my main lift,

Starting point is 01:40:37 which would be conventional? So I look at it as a way to, if you're stronger in your conventional pull, I would say no. I mean, I know that I'm averse to training it. It's just the majority of the times it's, okay, do you want a hip injury or a back injury? Okay, you want a hip injury? Zoom in that lift, you want a back injury?

Starting point is 01:40:55 Conventional that lift. The eventually, like, that's where the, that's where the Reaper of Injury is going to rear its head for each of those lifts respectively. So I think if you pull Zoom out, you should absolutely pull conventional. I don't think for how irregular that loading pattern is based off how we're meant. Right.

Starting point is 01:41:10 Like how many other times are you ever going to be in a position like that? Exactly. Yeah. I pull 400, 500 pounds. What would give you more carryover, like to a conventional deadlift, a Sumo lift or practicing that or something like a trap bar deadlift? Okay. So I think a trap bar deadlift would carry over better to Sumo,

Starting point is 01:41:25 because Sumo is a lot more quad dominant than people think. Because if you watch how you, it's not as fluid. If you watch a proficient Sumo deadlifters, their knees are extended before their backs extended, which is rarely the case in a good deadlift. Your knees and hips should come to that trip at the same time where watch your ebellocate and pull 927 off the floor belt list at 227.

Starting point is 01:41:44 Snaps is quite so fast, but it's the inertia of getting that bar moving that carries him through that end range and extension, right? So, sumo deadlifting is, if it's in your sport, or if you're a taller athlete, in like a taller basketball player, using that as a way to hip hinge, that's not going to increase the likelihood of injury by going through excessive loaded flexion in that position. Sure, use it sparingly. I think carry over wise, you're going to see your conventional goes up, your sumo goes up, not necessarily your sumo goes up.

Starting point is 01:42:16 I like to do it just for fun because I'll notice how I get it one and then I'll have to practice the other one. And I also notice from just from a use, like a wear on my body standpoint, like you said, if I push my conventional too long, my low back starts to get tired and sore, so then I'll go to Sumo and then I'll start to, you know, have to deal with the hip issues. Yeah, so excellent.

Starting point is 01:42:36 Check this out, we have a lot of free guides, free, free resources and guides. Educate yourself. That's about, you know, Fl know flabby arm guide flat tummy guide We got a guide on it get a bite shit just read it all kinds of stuff you go to mind pump free Dot com you can also find us all on Instagram Jordan. What's your Instagram handle at the underscore muscle underscore doc D.O.C. incredible nudes on that page

Starting point is 01:43:01 You can also find mine mine pump Sal sliding his DMs Justin mine. Justin, mine pump, Justin, Adam, mine pump, Adam, and also, if you think putting pineapple on pizza is fucking stupid, make sure you let Jordan shallow-know on his Instagram page. Thank you for listening to mine pump. Even goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps to performance, and maps to static. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by South, Adam and Justin to systematically

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Starting point is 01:44:18 This is MindFunk!

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 793: How to Strengthen Ankles, Build Knee Stability, the Dangers of Cracking Knuckles & MORE with Dr. Jordan Shallow

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