Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 822: Natural Workouts vs. Anabolic Steroid Workouts- The Differences You Cannot Ignore if You Want to Maximize Your Gains

Episode Date: July 26, 2018

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin discuss why the workout for a natural muscle builder must be different than the workout for a person who is on anabolic steroids. If you are looking to maximize your muscle gains you cannot ignore these truths. How to achieve AMAZING PUMPS and gain INSTANT ENERGY by doing trigger sessions consistently. (2:05) Who is most likely to be the aggressor in the bedroom? (7:35) Update on Adam’s testosterone levels (using the Everly Well tests), since being off hormone replacement therapy drugs. (10:10) The effects of cannabis on hormones and gynecomastia. (21:19) How just putting it out there forces you to be accountable. (26:00) Has integrity and being a “good” person gone out the window? (29:00) Natural Workouts vs. Anabolic Steroid Workouts: The Differences You Cannot Ignore if You Want to Maximize Your Gains. (32:20) How much meat is Justin consuming on a daily basis? Update on his Carnivore Diet experiment. (53:49) How would you train someone differently while natural vs. on anabolic steroids? (58:42) The standards the fitness space has put on a “healthy” individual. (1:02:40) People Mentioned: Doug Egge (@mindpumpdoug)  Instagram Ben Pakulski (@ifbbbenpak)  Instagram Robert Oberst (@robertoberst)  Instagram 4x Mr. Olympia Physique Champ (@jeremy_buendia)  Instagram IFBB PRO “LET'S GET WYCKED” (@wycked_shaun)  Instagram Related Links/Products Mentioned: Everly Well **Code “MINDPUMP” for 15% off any test** Butcher Box Joovv **$25 off purchase**  Health Benefits of Diindolylmethane Mind Pump Episode 715: Mind Pump Goes Deep with Ben Pakulski Mind Pump Episode 710: Robert Oberst is Stronger than You Organifi **Code “mindpump” for 20% off** The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men Mind Pump FREE Resources – Everything You Need to Know to Reach Your Fitness Goals Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS Split, an expertly programmed and phased muscle building and sculpting program designed to get your body stage ready. This is an advanced program and is not recommended for beginners. Get it at www.mapssplit.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com   Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates.   Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND differences between training naturally and training on anabolic stones. Be it all juiced up. Yeah, like what would the difference be do you need to change your, yeah, a lot of really good stuff. And then we do some updates on our nutrition, atoms to testosterone levels. We talk about Justin's carnivore diet. I talk about the value of trigger sessions, which they always blow me away.

We do mention a couple of our sponsors. We mentioned Everly Well, who does the, they do hormone testing. You could do it at home. We are sponsored by them. So you can go to EverlyWell.com, enter the code, Mind Pump, get 15% off any test. And then of course, we also mentioned lots of meat because we talked about Justin's carnivore diet. My savior, butcher box. There is a huge promotion with butcher box right now. If you go to butcherbox.com forward slash mine pump, you'll get free bacon, you'll get two rib eyes, you'll get $10 off and free shipping on your first order.

Yeah. They're giving away, and this is by the way, high quality, high quality grass fed meat, some of the highest quality you can find at competitive prices. Also, I do want to mention, there's only six days left for the MAPS and a BOLIC 50% off sale. So right now, MAPS and a BOLIC, the program to start them all, is under $60. It's 50% off. There's only six days left. You can find it at MindPumpMedia.com.

You can also find all of our bundles at MindPumpMedia.com. These are where we combine multiple mass programs for particular goals. We have a sexy athlete bundle, we have a builder butt bundle, and we have a super bundle which is a year of exercise programming. Again, all of those, including the 50% off maps in a ballac, is at MindPumpMedia.com. Dude, I forgot how I always do this.

I forget how fucking awesome you are trigger set no i don't forget that i'm just kidding i got to never forget that no i'm you know i i honestly i never i i forget how awesome trigger sessions are when done consistently like the difference between doing one trigger session a day or two and doing three three it's like three is the magic number. Bro, here's what happens. Here's what you experience when you do trigger sessions properly. So you should be doing, they should last between five to ten minutes. You're doing four, three to five exercises.

It's low intensity. The goal is to get a little bit of a pump, feel a little bit of a burn in the muscle and that's it. And what happens when you do them consistently is throughout the day, your pumps get successively, first of all, easier to attain and bigger. And it charges your energy levels up. Dude, I just did, so right now I just did my set. And I haven't done trigger sessions consistently

for a while. And I'm using them because of the contest that we're doing. And it's been a while. And the thing about trigger sessions, and I get it, it can be a pain in the ass, especially if you're doing three a day because midday you got to stop and you got to do your thing or whatever.

Once you get on the rhythm though, it's awesome, because it feels good. You make moments for it though. Yeah, initially it feels kind of weird. Like, oh, well, I have to stop what I'm doing right now and like do it, but once you start to kind of get in the rhythm of it, and you have bands like on you or whatever,

even if it's just body weight, you can do it anywhere. The pumps, I start to get throughout the day, you're just better and better, and my muscles feel more charged, and it's like, it's fucking magic, dude. My favorite thing to do is to, I keep them up and ready to go on my closet door, downstairs at my house,

and because I have this tendency, sometimes I have these days where maybe I didn't get great sleep the night before or we had a lot of stuff going on at work. And so I come home and it's four o'clock in the afternoon and I'm just feeling lethargic and tired and I just, I could easily just plot my ass on the couch and stay there for like the rest of the day. And when I'm, I have a chair that I sit in and the bands are directly in sight. And so I'll be looking at them going like, I don't feel like doing shit, but I need to get it. And

finally, I'll get up. I'll walk over and I'm like, you know, okay, at least I'll do a trick or session real quick. And it never fails me every time I do that, I get this aside from the great pump, which is great. But you get this surge of energy from that, that just, it reinvigorates me to keep going for the rest of the day. And I strategically did that, because I know that I have a spot in my house. I'm sure everybody does, right? Do you guys all have a spot where?

I do. Well, not have my big vlogger. You're gonna be lazy, you can just plant yourself there and not move. Yep, yep, yep. No, it's something that, you know, when I first wrote Maps in a ball seven years ago, six years ago, seven years ago, it was the one thing that I thought was gonna be mind blowing

for people. And, you know, I think people focus a lot on the phasing of the workouts, the exercise selection and all that stuff. And that's all very important. And of course, that's the foundation of it, right? Because without that, then it's not, you know, sugar seconds. I'm gonna do a whole lot.

If you don't, if you don't, if you don't. Yeah, that's not gonna do a whole lot for you if you don't have that backup. that, then it's not, you know, trigger seconds. I'm going to do a whole, if you don't, if you don't, yeah, it's not going to do a whole lot for if you don't, you don't have that backup. Although I will say this, okay, I do believe that trigger sessions are part of what saved me during this whole going through the hormone, hormonal shift for me, because there was times where I couldn't even get motivated to go lift and hit the gym, but the at least I could do some band work for 15 to 20 minutes a couple times a day. And I did feel like that it helped with the atrophy.

I felt like it, you know, it's hard to say because I can't measure that against another time where I've gone through this exact same change or whatever. But for me, I know my body and how if I stop exercising and working out and my diet starts to reduce in calories and I'm not moving very much, I see how fast my body loses muscle and I really do feel like the trigger sessions kind of help mitigate that a little bit. And I think, you know, one way and you can use them in different ways, like the way I use them is traditionally is, you know, with a full body routine on the off days and I do,

you know, three times a day type of deal. But even people doing a split or doing their own routine, I'll say, look, pick a week, pick like two or three week body parts. So this is how I use it. That's how I use it. I've always used it. And you just every day you do it. Because I'm, you know, since day one on the show,

I've shared that I'm the guy who cares about the look of the physique. So that's kind of my motives, right? So when I go do trigger sessions, it's always lagging body parts. It's like, oh, I could use some more rear delt works. So I'm using it to do like reverse flies on there or I want more chest work. And so I'm gonna do chest flies on there.

So I pick a couple muscles that I'm trying to increase the frequency on and that's how I use the trigger sessions. Yeah, the thing that trips me out is as you do them, like I said throughout the day, you see, you see and feel changes that day. And I don't mean like I'm building muscle, but I feel the pump, it hits me faster by the second one, by the third one tonight, when I do my last one,

I'm gonna get pumped after a few reps, which is kind of crazy. And then when I do them consistently on all my off days, by the second or third day, it's like, I don't know how to explain it. It's like I added an extra week of working out or something like that or part working out. My body just, I mean, like Doug was out there with me right now

doing his, you know, his trigger sessions, and he comments on the same, he was one of the first testers. I thought you guys were having sex. No, that's what sounded like. It did sound a little bit like that. I don't sound like that when I'm having sex. No.

I don't know. I don't know. I bet, let's be honest. That last one was a little weird. Who for sure makes the worst noises while having sex? Justin. He's a no-da. Have you ever heard of me?

But you're like an animal. For sure. For sure it sounds like. I mean, if he had sex anyway, he'd use it. I don he's like any of your right. Think of anything. Is there anything that Justin does with finesse? Ninja. Sex. That would be funny. Yeah. It's like super delicate. And I he's like like feathers. Are you really? No, I don't know. It's a whole shit. I didn't think so. It's probably a mix of both. You know,

it depends on the mood. Yeah. Yeah. Who's most likely to roll their girl over too hard aggressively or something or grab her too fast or too hard or push her off the bed? Who's more likely out of the three? It can't be me.

Yeah. Probably. I'm talking about my wheelbarrow moves. He's like, last Tuesday, actually. Roadio wrestling. You know, last Tuesday, actually. rodeo wrestling. The problem is some girls like that roughness. And so I think some guys take it too far.

Like, oh, like a rough, you know? That's why you have to have, you know, you have to have different gears, bro. I get yelled at. The only one they wanted to go in that gear. I'm an award you had at time. I'm capable of a very wide spectrum. I get Katrina gets mad at me when I slap her ass

when we're not having sex. Why? Because she wants to have sex. No, because she's just like, ah, she'll scream and she'll be like, don't do that. You like it, you like it all the time. And she's like, not when we're not having sex.

Oh, I said, oh, there's a time that you like it when you don't like okay I always picture when you guys I always picture with you guys where she like comes up to you and you're always like I'm not in the mood come on listen now. She's gotta kind of work in a little bit with you okay. I mean like the reverse. Yeah well if I'm honest that's kind of how the relationship is for sure she's the one who's always talking shit to me. She's talking shit to me you know.

Does she really? Yeah yeah yeah she's talking shit to me. You better fuck this pussy. Oh my God. Wow. Wow. I have a weekly quota, bro. Oh man. Yeah, or she's out, dude.

Period or no, period of don't matter. Like if you're making it take your man part to me. She don't get it three times a week. Like I'm fucking put out the thing. You're done, I'm in the dog house. We'll see what happens. I mean, you guys are, if you guys have a kid, hopefully that maintains that way. Cause it done, I'm in the dog house. We'll see what happen. I mean, you guys are, you guys are, if you guys have a kid, hopefully that maintains that way,

because it does change a lot for a woman after. Sometimes change is quite a bit after having a kid. You know, so they lose it. So this has been like a discussion between her and her mom, and her mom just looks like she goes hunting not in our family. Yeah, she tells her that not in our family. And I was like, damn it.

Yeah, that's what I was like. I need to bring it. Yeah, hopefully I'll slow down just a little bit. Supposedly it's in the, it's in the it. Yeah, I need to bring it. Yeah, hopefully I'll slow down just a little bit. Supposedly, it's in the gene. So, speaking of which, how is your libidos, because you always use that as a gauge of your testosterone? I'm really, really excited for the next Everly Well Test. So, as you could feel a big difference in this.

Yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna wait until the- You could see how excited you are. Well, thank you. Well, I mean, again, this, you know, the Evelia Well Test is different than what you go do to go get your blood test. They use different markers, but they basically use the same parameters, right?

They just use a different way of measuring it, right? So it's a number like 56, I think is what we were, or what I was, excuse me. And so the fact that I'm in the low normal range and that my body fat percentage was over 14%. I'm really excited to see when I get down to like 10% body fat or so to see where I'm at. And do you feel different versus when you did it last time? I do. Yeah, for sure my libido is higher than it's been in almost a year because it's been it's been eight months a little over

eight months now. What are we in? We're in July, right? Okay. So we're in the middle almost in July. And it's been, so it's been eight full months of zero testosterone. And then since November of last year, I was really low as far as how low I was tapering down.

I think back then I was doing like a half a CC every two weeks. I think that was what I was at for. That was back when you were telling me, like, hey, go slow. Yeah, go really slow. And so I had been tapering off. You did everything the right way. So if it's going to work, you've given it the best chance.

You've done everything right. You took the advice that I got from one of my doctor clients, which was to slowly, slowly tap her down. You did the post cycle therapy, both conventional and unconventional. You've done the sleep and proper exercise, nutrition. You've done the red light therapy, and your knowledge of exercise and nutrition,

incorporate, like, you've done everything right. So I think if anybody has a chance of recovering after a six years of continual testosterone use, it's gonna be you. Well, you know, it's, and I think that's important to note is that it's, I think it's taken all those things. I think, and I get a lot of people that inbox me and like, you know, that are going through the same thing. You'd be surprised how many people...

It's nasty, dude. ...are in a very similar situation. So, city situation, yeah. As I am, I get a ton of... It's probably the most popular thing that I get DM'd for now. So, is somebody else that's asking, you know, testosterone hormonal type questions and, you know, what have I done protocol? And I've really done it all, and I've really done my best to be as consistent with all of it as I possibly can.

And I really believe that it's taken kind of all of it. I don't think, I think when you're dealing with something so serious like that or severe, I don't think that one, I don't think a jive light is gonna take me by itself. Yeah, by itself. I don't think that one, I don't think a Juve light is gonna take me by itself. Yeah, by itself. I don't think, you know, just taking some herbal supplement is gonna take me there.

I don't even think that a single cycle or two of HCG or PCG. Many times it doesn't work. Yeah, I had. I'd already done that a couple times, and I, you know, initially, sure, when I was taking the HCG, I felt good on it. You know, like it was, oh, and I would get me excited.

Like, oh, yeah, then I, then I come on. One was your last one, about a month and a half ago. So if you're gonna feel a dip, you should be feeling it. No, no, no, no, no, and I'm not. I feel anything, I feel it, like I feel better. Yeah, I feel better. So the last time I did an HCG four week run, I felt really good, obviously during it, I felt good for

about two weeks after it's still, and then I started to kind of... Let me start to dip. Yeah, we're right now. I'm over over a month of not using it, and I feel that I've sustained it. This is the number one reason why, because I get this question daily, every day, somebody asks me, hey, what do you think? I wanna try getting on a cycle. What do you think is a safe way to do it? What do you think?

And the number one reason why I recommend people don't is that, like at some point in your life, you're gonna wanna go off. And that's gonna be a very difficult process and it's gonna suck. And what you're gonna feel while you're going off is you're gonna regret that you ever went on the first place. I bet you I bet you right now besides the learning process and growth you got from it so that's

obvious because I'm the kind of person I'm like I think we're all like this where I don't necessarily regret anything because I grew from it and learn from it but let's just say you could get all that still and you went back in time would you have convinced yourself never to do them and I think most people would But let's just say you could get all that still and you went back in time, would you have convinced yourself never to do them? And I think most people would probably say yes. Yeah, no, I definitely, what will be interesting? So I'm really curious,

and this is curious about myself, like what will I do? What I'm really good about is saying, never saying never, right? Like I don't believe in saying like, sure, I'll never do this again. No, I just made them. Yeah, I just know that I would never put myself,

because who knows? Maybe I will. You know, I'm saying, maybe I will want to. I don't know. But I do feel this desire to never have that feeling that I just had before. And so I do feel like if there comes a time, you know, in the next year, two, three years, where I think I want to run a cycle. I think that it'll be very easy for me to pull back this feeling that I just have gone through for the last year, especially since I'm telling you guys right now that I feel great, I feel good. But even that's all relative. I feel good, great compared to what I felt like six months ago. I still don't feel like me.

I'm not crushing the gym. I'm used to going to the gym and working out and feeling amazing before and after the workout. I've just now moved away from feeling like it was fucking torturous work to go to the gym and do the things I need to do to like, I'm starting to enjoy it now. This is cool.

I'm enjoying seeing progress a little bit. My body too, one of the things that was really, really hard was doing all the exercise, putting the work in that I needed to, and not seeing the change. Being somebody who prides himself on, being able to flip the switch, and like dial everything right in,

like I'm really good at that. I mean, all the competitions that I had to do over the last three and a half years or whatever really trained me well on like when I make this mental switch, I had like, like I said, everything down to my music. Like I have the system of what I do with my music, what I do with my water and take,

what I do with my food, my tracking, my weighing, my measuring and my steps. And like I have the, and it's like, when I was doing those things and my body was not responding and that was like fuck, that was really, really tough. So at least now I'm seeing it, but I tell you what, you know, of course the natural game is completely different than the, you know, unnatural game. It's, do you now, do you feel like you're having, that you're going to have to relearn or

learn how your body responds now differently than before? Or do you think that you're so cute in terms of listening? I think that, I think what made me so successful at competing and how I moved up so fast was that I applied all my all-natural science and knowledge to with steroids. I think that, I think that's the mistake that a lot of anabolic guys do and girls do is because they're on it and there is so much room for air, that it doesn't force them to really hone in their skills and knowledge of nutrition and exercise science

and really understanding human physiology. You just don't have to. If you just fucking train hard and eat a lot of food, you're gonna gain anything. You just get away with a lot. Yeah, you get away with a lot more. Now, I think I, I mean, I never, I never cut longer than anybody,

as long as anybody did, like my most shows, four weeks, four or five weeks. I think the longest, I think I, I think for the USA's was my longest cut. I did six weeks. I've never cut longer than that because I always kept myself relatively close to the body fat that I wanted to be at going into a show.

I did it a very healthy way. I never did more than two weeks of like real strenuous getting up early type of cardio or anything like that. So I think that the only thing that I see now is it's a slower response time. Like when I start tweaking things, like when I was on something, it's like instant results right away.

Like I would see change like day, every day. Every day I'm getting better and better and better and better. Where now it's like, I feel like there are three to five day shots, meaning like, I can't be so hard on myself day to day. I have to look at myself more at three to five days and go like, okay, I need to be extremely consistent with everything that I'm doing. Let's evaluate myself at the beginning of the weekend

at the end of the week to measure my progress or lack of progress where before I can make changes daily and see the how response. I think the biggest change is going to be and not comparing. Yeah and not comparing when you were on your competitive doses. I'm talking about when we're comparing to your replacement doses. There's a big big difference between right competitive doses and natural and replacement doses and natural.

When you're on replacement, your testosterone levels are supposed to be maintained in the upper end of normal. That's what testosterone replacement is supposed to do, right? So you're similar to someone who's natural who has high testosterone naturally, in that sense, but you still have some other advantages. Like another, like here's a big advantage,

a big advantage to somebody who's on replacement testosterone versus someone who isn't, is your testosterone levels are elevated in the upper range regardless. Regardless what you do. Garth's of sleep, regardless. That's right. I could test my testosterone today and it could be high in the natural range

and I'm a natural guy. And I could easily tank my testosterone with two, three days of shitty lifestyle, drinking, not going to bed, whatever. I could hammer my body for truth. I could even work out too hard for two or three days and just beat the crap out of myself, get my testosterone levels checked.

And I'd have a 50 to 70% drop. So check this out. So this is something I haven't shared yet. And it's quite frustrating. I find it a blessing in 70% draw. So check this out. So this is something I haven't shared yet. And it's quite frustrating. I find it a blessing in disguise somehow too. So my gynecumastia is fucking extremely sensitive. And one of the things that would get me to go back on in testosterone, the therapeutic dose, is that it kept it that at bay. When I was taking a therapeutic dose, I had a nice level of testosterone, it kept my gynecumacia suppressed.

Because your estrogen to testosterone ratio was good or whatever. So I had no sensitive nipples, nothing I didn't see any fat tissue at all like that you couldn't tell, where now that changes day to day for me. Like some mornings all wake up and it hurts to touch. It's so sensitive.

Oh, your hormones are still bouncing out. Yeah. That's why. Yeah. It's eventually what'll happen is you'll have way less of it and it'll almost go away. It could also be, have you started to reduce cannabis consumption? So I have played with that and it does help. It does help for sure. Like if I, if they're, if it'll exacerbate all exacerbated if I if I actually start smoking a lot or have a day We're like weekends if I if I smoke in the afternoon or anything that's typically on a weekend I wouldn't do that during the weekday So I notice it flare up more With the the extra use of cannabis so yeah that does but even with or without that I actually food food does it

Which foods I don't know I said Which foods? I don't know. That's what I don't know for sure. Interesting. I'm not sure, but I do know. You're not eating soy. Yeah, I was gonna say, that's the obvious one. You have soy? Sure, for sure I get soy, I get sushi all the time,

so that's in the diet. So that, it's not. Well, just the edamame? No, no, I dip my soy sauce. Oh, the soy sauce? Yeah. Oh, how often are you eating that once a week? Oh, that's not too bad. Right, but you might be so sensitive. Yeah, and I, oh yeah, I dip my soy sauce. Oh, how often are you eating that? Once a week? Oh, that's not too bad.

But you might be so sensitive. Yeah, and I, oh yeah, I'm that sensitive that. Like if I, I would look at all your products too. Look at your hair products, look at your skin products, your deodorant, look for Xenoestrogens and that kind of stuff. Because you may be so sensitive that even that may be causing some kind of a reaction.

Yeah, well, most of that stuff has been pretty damn consistent. Pretty good now. Yeah, well, consistent my whole life. And, you know, I use like, it's just more sensitive now though. It may be, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. And it's, there's times where it's not,

like I consistently, you know, wash my body, brush my teeth, use my deodorant, you know, so those things are extremely consistent where I will, and it's something related to my diet, and I'm not 100% sure what it is. I've tried a few things. This will be a good time while I'm going through all this. I'll tease some things out. But I definitely do.

Some days I'll wake up and I can't feel it at all. I can't feel it. I feel great. It feels totally fine. And then a day later, all of a sudden I'll feel it in a super sensitive. Do you get, when was your last, when was your last general physical? Last two years ago? Yeah, I would get, not trying to freak you out

and I doubt that this was it, but you should get your liver enzyme checked and see if your liver is actually getting rid of estrogen the way it's supposed to. Because sometimes that could be a byproduct. There's a supplement you could take called... Elk thistle. No, that's for liver, yes. That might help indirectly, but directly, DIM,

don't know what the full name of it is, but DIM helps your liver convert estrogen into a less potent form of estrogen and see if that lowers the risk of that happening. But that's interesting. But it could also just be that you're off everything and your estrogen and testosterone levels are still trying to balance out.

Yeah, it's really weird. It's been quite some time though now. So to still see, and like I said, I'll have streaks where I'll have a few days in a row where I feel amazing and then all of a sudden something will throw it off. And definitely the cannabis thing, I've put that together, that absolutely.

Yeah, you know, it's funny too, as I was doing more research on cannabis, and for sure it reduces sperm motility and sperm count in people when they take high doses. And in animals, it consistently does affect hormones. Now in humans, the results are kind of mixed, but the way I look at it is, if you're using cannabis for medical purposes, I mean, okay, that's fine. If you don't use

it for medical purposes, do you really need to use cannabis more than once a week or something like that? It's kind of a lot, right, for most people, if you really think about it. So I've kind of reduced mine as well. Now I'm down to like once or twice a week. It's funny, I did go through withdrawal for a couple of days. I said that. Yeah, I had like weird vivid dreams, dude, and I was restless. Really?

That really pissed me off, by the way. I was like, are you kidding me? I actually built, I had a, you know, I'm having withdrawal for something. Yeah, yeah, you actually built up something there that you felt a fax of that on not having it. Yeah. Yeah.

You're using it more for like sleep, like on a consistent basis, right? I was just, you know, I had it for medicinal reasons for my gut and then I just got in the habit of using it on a semi-regular basis at night because it does feel nice and you relax and you know, you hang out with your girl or you watch something cool on TV.

And then I started thinking to myself like, well, you know, if I don't have it, how does that make me feel? And it kind of makes me like, oh, I want it. And then that made me question, okay, I'm gonna reduce my usage. I don't like to feel attached to anything. Yeah, I don't care what it is.

Well, that was my purpose of even suggesting I was doing it like a 30 day fast said, nothing to do with like, I'm not anti-ed, I'm not trying to stop it. Or it's not like a habit I'm trying to cut. I was just like, I don't ever want to have something that I feel like I need to do. Like I like to have full control of my body

and know that I have the discipline to implement something like that and say, hey, I want to fast from something from 30 days and not do it or whatever. I just haven't done it yet because every time I do it, like, ah, this is too good of a time for me to spill the rest. That's what I'm saying. The funny part is, you know, I've had things where I've battled addiction

before and stuff, so I'm very aware of what that feels like. The hardest is probably what, opiate. Yeah. That's got to be the nasty. Physical withdrawal. Yeah, that was not, there was nothing like that. Although the testosterone, I don't think is acutely as bad as, but it lasts longer. They're both, they were both were fucking monsters.

They both have been, I mean, it's like, I mean, I guess that one of the things that I appreciate having gone through it is that I think I now I have something that I can share and provide for somebody who may struggle with this or been through it or even considering doing some of it. It's like, I think the best thing you ever did with that, because I do the same thing is I tell people that I'm going to. And then it kind of helps me stay accountable.

Oh, man. I keep it to myself. Then it's like, my favorite. I mean, fuck who knows if my pump would be where it's at today, had I not done that way back with with Instagram. Like that was the beginning of like the, you know, building a, you know, quote, I'm called social media business was, you know, I'm going to put it out there. Like I, I remember waking up and going like, holy shit, I'm in the worst shape of my life, you know, 30 years old right now. And I remember going like, I've been talking about starting this whole Instagram thing and building a social presence like this is putting that out there. Like, so that's what I loved Instagram for. I loved, at least for me, it worked so well

because I am the type of person that's very committed to something that he says. If I profess it, if I say I'm gonna do something, I'm the type of person that won't say shit. If I think about doing a lot of things, there's a lot of things, I'm like, oh, am I gonna say this? I don't say it, but if I come out and go,

I'm gonna do this, I will fucking do it. I'm just saying the podcast, and that's do this. It's, I will fucking do it. I'm doing it. I mean, the podcast and that's why, like these challenges and stuff, it's like, I stay reserved because when I do commit to something, it's the same thing. It's like, yeah, I'm doing it, you know, 100%. Like, there's no, like, I don't have a problem

with discipline. That's not my problem. It's a matter of like, priorities and like, a hierarchy of things and what's working with my lifestyle. So it's like, yeah, of course, you know, like I can ratchet it up at any time, dude. I'm ready and willing, but like to say it and verbalize it and to have people kind of rally and know what you're doing is a totally different thing. That's what I appreciate probably the most about you guys is I know that you guys, I know if you're gonna say something like, oh, this is what I'm gonna do.

Well, that's what's gonna be done. There's no question in my mind that you're gonna do what you've said you're gonna do. Most people are not like that. That's integrity, man. It's for sure one of the most attractive qualities that I find in other humans. And it's one of the most unattractive things

when people don't have it, man. It's such a hard thing for me to deal with. It is. It's annoying a hard thing for me to deal with. It is. It's annoying that it's hard to find. You know, I just wish that was the standard. You know, like, let's all just be what you say you're gonna be. Like, if you, you know, are a man or a woman of your word,

you know, like, you're gonna hold you to that. You think it's getting better or worse? Like, worse. I think it's gotten worse for a long time. You know, it wasn't that long ago where if you shook somebody's hand, you just shook their hand. Yeah. Like that was it. You did it. And that was in the bottom. And we had sorry lawyers. And socially speaking, if you didn't adhere to that handshake, you were you were a pariah. Right. Nobody

wanted to be around you're dead everybody today People will brag and be like well, we didn't sign a contract I actually had somebody do that to me once and we did sign a contract and they told me they still tried to To come you know we yeah, I had to take him to court It was so stupid and I hated doing it because I looked at the person. I'm like you you know, as well as I do what you agreed to, we even signed this thing that has your signature, and yet you're still, that is, how do you, I don't know how you would live with yourself,

you know? Those people just, you're dead to me. Like, I'm done with you. Like, if you're that kind of a person, like, you're just gonna be filtered out of my life. Don't you think those people though, like, internally have so much shit that they have to deal? Like, I feel like as much as that,

like it was frustrating for you, right? Like the fucking sucks that you had to deal with that. But I always try and think like, you know what? At the end of the day, like this sucks for me, I have to deal with this bullshit, I'm angry. But you know what, I feel more sorry for that person because they gotta live with themselves. Oh yeah.

For the rest of their lives. It was hard for me to even, to go the rest of your life. You know, justifying these like shitty to see you. Knowing you're a fucking fraud and a pretender. You know, like that, what is it? It was hard for me to go through life.

It was hard for me to take that person to court for that reason, because I actually felt bad for them. And the reason why I did is because I did, I am also simultaneously the person that I'm very assertive and I will not be taken, like you will not walk over me, I don't care what it costs. I'm not gonna let somebody do that to me, especially if it's because they think I'm a nice guy and that's I know what happened.

They thought we'll sell a nice guy, so I'm gonna get away with this and that's what made me, that's what gave me my resolve. But otherwise, you know, I'm, I'm this is the kind of person I am. Let's say we make a bet, right? Let's say we, we, okay, how about this? We did make a bet.

We made a hilarious bet about a year and a half ago here at the studio. I was far away from the little basketball hoop with garbage. I had a piece of paper on my hand. And I'm like, and I'm like, and I get his card. Oh no, no, no, no, no, here's the thing. I'm not joking about it because I don't think you won't do it. Because I know you're a gay car. I'm like, oh, I bet I can make this way. He's better get his car, don't worry. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no say we're two years into the future, financial times are hard, and Adam buys a car, and I know he's struggling, or he goes and attempts to do it because he knows,

you know what, the kind of person I'm gonna do? I'm gonna be like, listen man, I know I lost that bet, and I appreciate you trying to do this, but you don't need to do that, you know what I mean? You gotta save your money, whatever. But if he was the kind of person that was like, no, I'm not gonna do it, man, I was stupid, it's a stupid bet anyway.

Then I'm gonna push, I'm gonna like hold your feet to the fight, you know what I'm saying? You know, that's the kind of person I am, so. But I do think that a little bit of that is, I think a little bit of that is lost today, and it's too bad. So anyway, I wanna get back to what we were talking about earlier, which is training while on gear

and training while natural. Yeah. Like, let's talk about the biggest, I guess, the biggest difference. It's about the benefits and then the misconceptions, right? Because I think that a lot of people think it's like the magic sauce, but then also at the same time, you're only going to get the maximum amount of benefit if you apply it correctly. I always like to point to a study that I read a long time ago. It was popular at the time because the Muslim magazines were printing because it was so hilarious.

But they took groups of men and compared them to each other over a, I think it was like an eight or 12-week period. To see how much more muscle people would gain on antibiotics. The reason why this study was so popular was because they actually used doses that the common person would use. Like in the past, there were studies on antibiotics

and they'd give people like these low doses. But these guys, I believe we're given 200 or 300 milligrams of testosterone, which isn't super high, but that's what a dude, you know, who lifts weights in the gym will probably start with. And there were three groups or three or four groups. One group of men took steroids, worked out.

The other group of men worked out with no steroids. The third group of men didn't work out and took steroids. And the fourth group of men did nothing, okay? So of course, who do you think built the most muscle, right? The steroid working out group. Right. Second place was where it was shocking. The guys that took steroids and didn't work out.

They still grew. Actually built more muscle than the guys who worked out who didn't take steroids. Yeah. Which says a lot. It says it. It's kind of fucked up. Yeah, it is. No, I think that's kind of fucked up. Yeah, it is.

No, I think that's because it was a short week period. Sure. You understand that over time. And again, this whole anabolic signal thing, which you've stressed, you know, with like when coming up with maps and stuff, it's definitely part of the recipe that, you know, it gets your body to respond and to, you know, it provides this sort of stimulus to overcome the its environment. Yeah, I mean, you take,

if you take the average dude who lifts weights and maybe he's, whatever, he's lifting weights and eating and he's plateaued, right? Let's say he hasn't gained any muscle for a year and he's just training and he goes on a decent cycle of antibiotics. He probably gained anywhere between eight to 16 pounds of muscle, just doing the same thing.

Just doing the same thing. Problem with that is that guy, when he gets off it all goes away too. He doesn't learn anything. Yeah, doesn't learn anything. Yeah, no, there's things that I can tell. Probably the biggest thing of everything that I know is right now is recovery.

I know that I'm not even hitting that intense and I tend to be more sore right now. Like I can tell that my body's not recovering it as fast of a rate, so I see that. Which means you can't cycle through the intense workouts this quickly. Yeah, oh yeah, you can't repeat them quite as frequently. Right. So in the past, you know, I would just go to the gym every single day and there would always be. Now I find myself like, you know what, I should probably just take today off like him or maybe I'll just use some trigger mobility or walk where I would go get after it because

I know like, I'd rather push the limits a little bit because I know that I'm enhanced. So I do notice recovery and then the mental stuff too. There's a lot that you get from the mental side. When I'm on testosterone, it's crazy. I dream about my workouts the next day. I can't wait to get to the gym. As soon as I touch the weight. Because every workout is epic. Great pump and awesome. Yeah, every workout is fucking epic. Right pump and I was like,

yeah, every workout is epic, you know. It's almost every workout, you can see strength gains. I mean, that's doesn't happen in the natural world. In the natural world, it's more of an ebb and flow and up and down a little bit. Like it's, oh, this work, it just did, right, like maybe I,

so I just did squats yesterday, okay. And so I'm prepared. I know this, okay, because it's not my first time obviously training naturally. It's just been a long time since I have. You know, I'm getting ready to go into squats. Well, this is the second time I've lifted heavy on squats in the last month or so.

And when I'm going into it, of course I want to see myself as strong or stronger than what I was three, four weeks ago, but I didn't, I was a little bit less. In fact, I squeezed out five reps of something that I only squeezed out three reps yesterday, but my calves are fucking hell sore because I did my calves for the first time, like four days ago, and they're still sore. My hammies were sore still from doing some hamstring work a few days before that. So I was still not, I wasn't fully recovered and rested. And so it really hindered that workout where in the past one, I probably still wouldn't even be sore from that if I was on anabolic. And two, I would be able to push through that. And three, the gains come on so fast that it would almost negate that. So these are some of the things that you

you start to notice with without antibiotics, like, okay, I have to take all this stuff into account, you know? Yeah. It makes me wonder, you know, because I know a lot of people in our industry and a lot of them have taken antibiotics consistently for years, which is, which in and of itself is kind of interesting.

It wasn't like that, like 15, 20 years ago. No, when I first did it, it was like, it was a big deal to go longer than like eight weeks. Yeah, 12 weeks was like, oh shit, you're doing 12 weeks? I remember I was scared to do 12. Like I did like little six to eight week cycles when I was younger because I was scared to death and then I finally had somebody, I mean years later,

go like, oh man, you gotta run that for a little bit longer than eight weeks. So you run that for a little bit longer than eight weeks. So you run the thing for like 12 weeks, no problem. Then you see 16 weeks. And now it's become like a lot of guys that I know were in our space years. They don't go off. Well, in my peer, well, because I think the science has come out now where back then there was still this big scare of testosterone, like, oh, what could happen to you?

And so I'm wondering if it's better to go on and off for natural tests. It's got to be right for your body's natural testosterone levels. Who was it that was actually just debating that with us or not debating with sharing information with us? Who was that? We just talked to him just a few days ago. Fuck, I don't remember. Anyways, we'll put a role in the bus if we bring it.

That's why I'm not saying. Right. Oh, I know. We'll go ahead and keep talking. Yeah, we won't be a role of the bus that's why i'm not saying right uh... i know it's a little bit keep talking yet we won't roll our friend of the bus but anyways he was sharing that he actually was saying that he was reading somewhere that it's it's more advantageous to state consistent with it at at moderate level i thought i thought he's what here's what a lot of people do especially smart people is they'll they'll they'll

be like most the evidence will be counter Then they'll find one piece of evidence that supports what they're doing. Yeah, and then they're like that's the one I'm gonna call good. I like this one. This is true. Yeah, I mean everybody does yeah I don't think staying on all the time for years is Going to make it easier for your natural testosterone levels to come back versus Going on and off and allowing it. Wouldn't it start sort of replacing natural production?

It does right away, right? If you go on, here's a funny thing, people don't realize, I could give you one shot, one of testosterone right now, and your natural amounts, your natural levels will automatically start to decline. Of course, it starts to decline. We've got more than we have. And then if you don't go on another one then they kind of kick back up. The longer you stay on, most the literature shows that the harder it is

to for your body to... Well, I mean, that's what I've experienced. I feel like... Because I was on a therapeutic dose too for a very long time, which is not much at all. But I had a harder time just recently coming off than I did ever before as a kid where I'd run these little 60s.

I feel like you may start to cause more permanent damage or long-term damage where the cells that are responsible for producing testosterone in your body as those atrophy or stop producing testosterone and they stay that way for a long time, you got to keep this in mind with the body. Your body doesn't keep what it doesn't need. It prunes it. Yeah, because otherwise it's a waste of energy. And your body's always trying to become more efficient with energy.

So if you know, use it or lose it, right? Remember that old saying? Yeah. I feel like if you're not using it and your body's constantly sensing exogenous testosterone so it's not going to, or exogenous as that, as they could say, test, I would say, right that time good. It doesn't produce testosterone. I feel like your body's going to be like, well, we don't need these cells anymore.

I think we could just kind of get rid of them and then that becomes, you know, that's now your new normal. So, but you know, that's the thing nowadays, people stay out for a long time and it makes me wonder, like, I'll meet someone and you know, they're, you know, when would they look like with that?

It makes me speculate too. Like if you start like start really losing the ability to produce your own natural testosterone and that being it's version from your own body. Your own body is producing this versus exogenously you're introducing this. How high a grade is that regardless of how pure you think it is in terms of what you're injecting into your body

versus what you could produce. That's a whole nother problem because you're not doing it with the black mark on. Well, the other problem too is thinking, and this was my mistake as a young, you know, 20 year old that was messing with it is thinking that it is so magical and thinking that, oh man, this is,

because I really believe that what was separating me from the guys in the covers of magazines because I was a trainer, I guys in the covers of magazines because I was a trainer, I thought I was knowledgeable, I thought I knew about diet, I thought I knew about exercise, I worked hard, you know, but I didn't look nowhere near what these guys look like, they must all be on steroids and that's what's separating me from looking like that. So let me try and do this. And then it was like, oh, let me try one cycle and then didn't get shit really from it. And then it was like, oh, let me try one cycle and then didn't get shit really from it.

And then it was like, well, people, oh, well, your first cycle, some people don't really feel it or not. So, okay, let's do a second cycle and see what happens. And it was like, okay, now I notice I get strength. Well, maybe I'm not eating properly for it because man, when I the first couple that I did, I have this ectomorph body type. I'm super active. I was still playing playing basketball, I was still wasn't feeling the body enough calories. So I was just thinking of the building block. Yeah, I didn't give it exactly. I didn't give it the nutrients that it needs. I mean, I was getting stronger in the gym, like I could feel my strength go up because I was anabolic in the enhanced, but then I wasn't feeling my body with enough nutrients for me to pack on muscle and actually hang on to it. So I put up a couple of bounds. I mean, I went up like five. But you got a good straight gains, you said?

Yeah. So you know it's real. Yeah, oh yeah. That's the other thing too. Sometimes I think guys are like, this isn't work. Oh no, there was no jetting sesame oil. There was no doubt.

Check your dealer. There was no doubt that what I was taking was the real deal because like 100% and then I felt, I mean, I had erections around the clock. You know, so that was all crazy. That, I noticed that the erections and I noticed the strength and the gym, but I didn't put size on until way later, until like maybe my fourth or fifth time running a cycle,

did I realize like, oh shit, I need to really push the calories or, and or reduce my movement because I'm just, I'm still, my number one problem with building muscle my entire life was nothing to do with animals. It was always the challenge of getting enough calories from my body. I'm a tall, lanky guy who moves a lot as active

and fidgety. You also don't naturally have a huge appetite. Right, I've noticed that I naturally don't have a huge appetite. I have everything working against, I mean, I have a small skeletal structure. Like everything about me is said, I'm supposed to be this tall, skinny swimmer who doesn't need a lot of calories. Like that's it's not this body builder guy. So it's taking a lot of work. And it's, you know, the blessing in it is that it's taught me, I've been forced to learn a lot about nutrition and human physiology and exercise

science and really understand that in order for me to take a body type that really is not meant to be in the bodybuilder category and then turn it into a bodybuilder physique. I would, you know, I'm going to speculate here because I've experienced the designer steroid over the counter stuff and I would do four to eight week cycles of that stuff And for all intents and purposes I was taking anabolic and so I did notice a big difference And I'm gonna make a speculation here and say that Intensity becomes more important when you're on anabolic and frequency Becomes a little bit more important when you're natural what I mean by that is you know that is, you know, when I was on those cycles, I could do these,

you know, these traditional body parts splits where I would hit a body part once a week. But if I hit it hard and really, really hard, I would build more muscle. When I was natural, that shit didn't work. I had to hit my body more frequently and be smart with intensity. So it's like, okay, I'm hitting my whole body three days a week now,

but now I need to work out easier on some days and harder on other days and have to phase it. Whereas before, it was like, oh, if I want to grow, I just got to work out harder, which maybe, and here's the thing with the muscle building industry. A lot of the information that's filtered down and feeds what we think to be is good information comes from the top. And what I mean by the top is it comes from these genetically gifted and aballoc, and aballoc-le-enhanced bodybuilders.

So it's like what they do is what everybody tries to do. But what they do works really well for that category of person, which is, you know, high super high fucking intensity, kill yourself in the gym, and then rest for a week type of workout. Well, that, that, that, that, for most people, that doesn't work.

So I know for sure, like the number one thing that has kept me from becoming huge, or what, what, what, what took me from being the skinny 170 pound kid to being as big as a 240 pounder, was 100%, nothing to do with steroids and everything to do with nutrition. I shouldn't say 100%. Everything to do with nutrition.

You know, I remember when we first met and talked with Ben Pekolsky and this was such an aha moment for me because I've always known that about myself, but then it really made me piece it together for someone like him. Like, a guy like that his that is so much bigger than I am, it has so much more muscle than I do, only having to consume 3500 calories was just like mind boggling. What an advantage. Yeah. Huge advantage.

Huge. Huge, huge, huge, huge, for me, for a guy like me, you get more out of the same, you get more out of less fuel. Yes. You get more out of the same, you get more out of less fuel. Yes, I mean, I cannot be 230 plus pounds and not be consuming north of 4500 calories. It's impossible. The moment I let off the throttle calorie wise, I would just, now this made it, now there's obviously,

there's always a flip to every other side to it, right? This made it easy for me to cut. Once I put all the hard work into getting that much size, man, once I just kind of laid off some meals and restricted, my body would just plumb. You know who blew me away with that? Who completely blew my fucking mind with that? Was when we went and hung out with Robert Obers

over, we did like three days, and I saw how he ate. I was, we all ate. I was expecting, I was expecting like this dude's gonna eat everything. And remember we're all prepared, like all right bro, whatever you want us to do. We're gonna have it around cause he's gonna get angry. He's gonna eat me.

Yeah, no. No, he ate like, he probably ate 3000 calories a day, maybe, maybe some days were like less. And he's a massive human being. How much does he weigh? He's like 300 something. Yeah, he's like upwards of 380 or so. He's just a big dude and big strong dude.

And then remember, I talked to him about him, like, you know, bro, I said, and I remember telling him, like, if you want to eat more, I thought he was being polite, you know, because we're buying all the food. I'm like, if you want to eat more, you totally can, dude.

And he looked at him and was like, I actually don't eat that much. People are surprised. And it's funny because had I not lived with them for three days, never would have believed him. Right. That was like the Ben Pukolsky thing for me. Seeing guys like Ben Pukolsky,

seeing guys like Robert Oberus, who have the ability to eat that low of calories and be that size, like, no, my body just let, and this is where everyone's genetically different. Like I'm not saying this is for everybody, like if you're, but if you're a kid, this is also why, since day one on the show, that when we were kind of like,

the anti-protein movement in the bodybuilding world, I always kind of pushed back because, and I'm dealing with it again right now, like I'm having to include shakes into the diet, so I had to make sure that I'm hitting these, these protein levels of 180 to 200 grams of protein. Otherwise, when I hit these 150, 140 days, the way my body works, I lose body fat and I lose muscle.

Like it's just, I don't have one of those body types where I can just lean out and it just shreds body fat and I hang on to every bit of muscle. My muscle really needs that nutrients. And this is the variance that we all have. Some people aren't like that. Some people can eat 50 to 60 grams. You can, there's vegan bodybuilders that eat 60.

I was tripping off those guys. Yeah. I just saw one in the day, someone shared in there. It was like a vegan strong man. They tagged us and they are like, you know, could this be true or this or that? It's like, absolutely. It's the, the, the, the, the, the layers all of us.

Yes, the variance of humans is fucking ridiculous. We're all so uniquely different and you may have a body type that can eat 50 grams of protein and you hold on to 180 pounds of fucking lean mass. Well, good for you, I am not that guy. Now, normally that guy or girl struggles to lose body fat. There's just kind of how it works, right? They're what's great about their body is they look at weights and they pack on muscle. Their problem is they could run their ass off on a treadmill

and they still hang on to all this mess. And you get the freaks that could do it all. I had this dude I've talked him out of him before and I can't remember his name one day I'll remember but he worked my front desk late at night at the 24 fitness and Salinas and this fucking dude man I'd see him and he would eat like a pop tar or like 899 cents cheeseburger. Oh we and Salinas. And this fucking dude, man, I'd see him eat, and he would eat like a pop tar, or like 899 cents cheeseburger. Oh, we had a train. And I just don't remember the train that you stole from us.

And I talked on Taco Bell. And I talked on, like, I remember I sat down. I sat down with him, because I saw him doing, he was doing skull crushers, okay, with 225. So the bar, the bench press bar, 245 on each side, good form. And I I remember and he was jack And I remember thinking like this. I'm like he must be on every steroid known to man

So I took him to side became friends with them and I'm like dude I'm like how do you like why are you so like I never see you eating or whatever and he's like to be honest with They don't have a lot of money, which is true We wouldn't pay him much because he was a late night friend desk guy He's like I can't afford to eat a lot of whatever. He's like, when I can't eat more, I gain more muscle. So everyone wants to buy them lunch and sure enough, motherfucker would grow every time I buy them lunch. I'm like, crazy as genetics

that ever seen in my entire life. Right. Those people definitely do exist. No, they're, they're, I mean, and most of the people that we all aspire to look like and be like on these covers of magazines and that are the bodybuilding world. And this is the thing too that,

like, you know, I know that we have people on our form that love the jab at me about not having the body type. It's like, fuck you, bro, I'll tell you right now. I do not have a bodybuilder body type. I've worked my fucking ass. There's two things you have working for, for genetics. Like, I'll tell you right now, on a small waist.

Well, hold on, small waist wide shoulders and you have long muscle bellies. Those are the three things that work for you. So everything else in terms of like ease of building muscle and you've been doing this for a long fucking time. Right, right. So it's not, it's by no, I do not have, then there's guys for sure that are my peers.

Matt, my boy Sean, dude, I think is just, that kid has looked like that since he was in high school, too. You guys know him, Tom Balon. Yeah, I do we could Sean crazy crazy He is he is literally a a fucking like why is he not the like top like number one dude because he should be he did some shit way back when Oh the politics that's on the internet. Yeah. Yeah, so they I know that's why otherwise he has the most ridiculous physique in the game This it's not even compared. He shits on Jeremy when he does.

He shits on Jeremy when he did. Jeremy, do you know about that? Is there a video about that? No, it's just. Oh, I was like, no, there's not a video about that. I thought it was the video. No, no, no, no. Sean's, look at that, bro.

He looks like that year round. Just filthy, dude. Damn. He looks like an action figure all time. It's not Photoshop. He looks like that. I hang out with I've seen him a billion times. I trained him for one of his shows and the guy is just a fucking freak, dude He should be he should be the men's physique

But I know like I know the politics and I know he's been hated on for a long time And I feel so bad because I know the guy goes to the gym like every day trying to work on these weaknesses I'm a motherfucker does not have a weakness. Does not have a single weakness. And he's got boulders for calves. You don't even see him right now in that picture, but his calves will be basketball. That is, he do that too, or he doesn't have to eat that much,

or does he have to get all crazy with his food? No, he doesn't have to get crazy with his food at all. That he was on a very modest diet when we were training. Like he's crazy, man. He's looking at Doug. That's not, oh my God. Let's go down the page a little and there's some surprises. Whoa. He's crazy man, he's looking at Doug. That's not my God. Yeah, whoa, Doug. Let's go down the page a little and there's some surprises.

Whoa, hey, hey, hey. We're gonna save that page there. That's on Google? Yeah. It's probably because of the word wicked, you know. That's a porn. Is that, yeah. Shout out to our boy, no doubt this should be the,

if bodybuilding was judged correctly and I dare somebody to get on here and fucking shout was on this, that Sean does not have a more symmetrical physique than Jeremy Blandia fucking come at me with that. Oh, 100%. I agree with you. The dude does not have a weakness on his entire physique.

No, I agree with you. I, Justin, I wonder what your grams are protein are at right now with corn. They must be through the roof, because that's the prime, have you figured them out? I'm gonna point five something like that. Oh, what a profound.

How many, how many pounds a day? One and a half. Yeah, one and a half. Is that what you're averaging? So what's one and a half? That's how I'm, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I ramped up to two.

Yeah. That's not much at all. How much protein would that be? Two pounds of meat. That's a I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how I'm gonna have that's how is 16 so what did that do the math did you do it down 200 oh yeah about 200 That's not bad so to pat you're getting two pounds yeah how do you break it up right now breaking it up into Three so in the morning. I'll have like leftover from last night. I grow. I'll do like you know a stake in the morning I'll do like a stake like I'll do like a steak like around. He's gonna tell me different. I do steak and then I do steak.

I think it's more steak. After you lunch, I don't get some more steak. Oh, let me put it in for the next meal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they some steak. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then some ham for your meat. You was like thinking real hard on that.

Like, bro, is it really hard to think about what you're doing for your diet? It is when you're carb depleted. Yeah. Are you feeling this hard for me to think? Are you feeling that right now? A little bit. A little bit.

It goes in waves, dude. Like sometimes I feel really sharp. You know, and then sometimes I'm like, it'll wake up in the morning and it's just like, oh my God, I feel super cloudy and like lethargic. What are the things you're liking about what you're doing? And what are the things you're not liking about what you're doing? I like the simplicity of it.

I like, I know. That's about it. I'm the simplicity of it. I like, I know that's about it. That's about it. I'm really, yeah, I don't, I don't even like to hear more too much. What about your sleep stuff, what about your paint and the toilets, what about like digestion? Digestions great, okay, so I'll go through this part of it.

Like I do feel like everything is, my digestion's working out great.. I don't have heartburn, I don't have any kind of gas or indigestion or anything going on with that. I eat meat and then it's almost like it's a functional thing. I'm eating it's for function and that's it. There's no cravings. I guess that's another good thing is I'm not really craving anything now that I got through sort of the first initial days of not having carbs and I guess I'm still eating fat

from the steaks, but like. Are you doing fatty cuts? Fatty cuts, so. I've actually. Ribbying stuff. That's the only thing I've been having variety with is all alternate and I'll do like a different cut of meat and I'd be like ribeye and try to and try to so I had tried to

last night and That's actually got like a pound and a half at night So I kind of been trying to alternate the amount the volume all you know for one one meal versus like, you know, spread it out. So today, I'm probably going to do less, like, probably do like one pound today, but like more towards the end of the day. And then tomorrow, I'll go back to two and then like spread it out throughout the day. So here's what you could do. You could buy some, here's our recommended, try this out. Buy some chicken livers and ground them up or grind them up and mix them with some ground beef

Can you make yourself some happy fry? Are you allowed to deep fry you're not supposed to use oils? Oh, you can even use I mean you could do it in ghee if you really want to you know, but can you deep frying? Eat I don't know see I haven't been like total Directed it like I've put butter on you know As far as like what do you call that technique as you saute sort of that style? So I've done that yeah, whatever but so I've done I've done that but just for different flavors and different spices and stuff I think you could he can cook in large can you do that maybe yeah? You can can you do that duck? Can you fry and like large? Yeah, so duck fat? You can get duck fat

Yeah, that's what you should. That's what you should do. Don't do that there. You do some fried chicken like that. Do some fried chicken. Well, how you gonna fry, what you gonna better the chicken with? Bacon? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Yeah, if I'm in a pinch, like I have actually a bunch of big and I don't know how much money are you sending to butcher box right now? I got I got I got the extra big butcher box

like so you can add in even more. Oh, they make a big a super size box. You have one where you can add more to it. And so I did that for this month specifically to ramp up my meat. And so 100% of our butcher box commissions may be coming from just... It's probably just coming from me. Just as anybody else is in my... That's when they're caching the commissions, they say, man, we're killing it.

I'm butcher box. I think it's just just the carnivore dieting out there. Yeah, thank you. Well, you know, back on the, on the antibiotics versus training natural, what are some ways you would change the way someone trains if they run anabolic versus natural? Because I get this question a lot. Well, you get away with pushing volume.

So push, push faster rate, right? You know, I'm saying like where you have to be much more strategic and you have to listen to body, like example what you were talking about earlier and what I'm going through right now is so I can't, when I was training in a ball, I could literally map out my entire next three months. Or I don't do that. You have to wait by your face. Yeah, I wait like how I feel. Yeah, I know, I'm like, oh, I think I'm gonna,

this is what I'm planning on doing tomorrow, but I might wake up and be like, oh shit, I definitely over did it yesterday from this, which means I need to kind of change this up a tiny bit because it was too much. So, I find there's more of that going on for sure. So you have to change that up. You know, I'm not a big supplement guy as it is.

I am taking advantage of the fact that we are sponsored by companies like Organify and I can get a whole of like Tumoric and things like that. I'm using that more than I ever would, like to see if that actually helps like the recovery process for me. It's kind of early on to see, like I've been consistent with your four and four. Yeah, I'm obviously I'm going through the pills pretty fast that way,

but and it's hard because I have what I'll do and right now is I'll be very consistent about it and then I'll take it out and then see how I feel. Yeah, see if it's really helping that much. Yeah, I would say the same thing. I'd say if someone came to me and was like, hey, I'm gonna be on anabolic now, how should I change my work out?

I would say, okay, well, let's go harder and let's add a little bit of volume and feel it out and see how the body works. I think you probably get away with more of the pumping workouts, unless of the heavy strength type workouts. I also think that you can get away with just a higher surplus of calories.

So more of it's gonna go to muscle. Right, yeah. If you're anabolic 24 or seven, then getting up and having a peanut butter jelly sandwich at two o'clock in the morning is okay, because there's a good chance that it'll get, it's also way easier to get shredded without losing muscle. That's a big fucking difference.

That is hard to get shredded without losing muscle. So this is big fucking difference. That is hard to get shredded without losing muscle. So this is the one that I most interested in because I already know that's a challenge for my body. Like I'm already know that I'm the guy who as soon as he starts leaning out, muscle falls off. So that is what I'm most curious, and this is also why when I said when we're doing this competition, I said,

you know, I have my own personal goals. Like as much as I'm competing with you fuckers, I also don't wanna just get shredded to get get shredded and I lose fucking eight pounds of muscle Just trying to prove a point that I can get shredded So I have serious goals of I mean, I've set goals in myself to actually add muscle if possible over this six weeks Why I'm also trying to lean out that would be a huge win for me But if I can just maintain it and then actually reduce body fat, I'll be really happy.

I'm nervous, I won't. I'm nervous that I know my body pretty well that when I start calorie restricting, it gets really, really tough. Because that's, I mean, that's one of the biggest things. You see somebody that's like super shredded. Like they've been on this massive cut, but they still have really like bubbly,

like pronounced muscles. Like to me, like, and I know there's outliers out there that can actually cut for a long period of time and still look like that, but like, there's not many, dude. And that is a total like dead giveaway to me most of the time. Yeah, when if you're somebody who's running on a treadmill and you still got fucking bull and shoulders and stuff like that.

Right. But a lot of times that too is the genetic component because even on antibiotics, if that's why I had to be careful on how hard I cut and like I wasn't a hard cardio pusher because I knew as soon as I just restricted calories, I instantly start losing. And even on antibiotics, I would lose muscle. We'll see what happens because if this kick starts me and gets me super focused and that thing, I made just the attempt to get super shredded, but I may not also,

because I remember how shitty that felt. And so we'll see what happens after this. Well, don't you have a trip, not that long. I know you have a trip right after that. Yeah, but you know, getting super, like I can get, okay, fine, 8% body fat, I'm gonna look good. I'm talking about getting down to 5%, 4%, that shit gets nasty. And I get, I get super crank okay, fine, 8% body fat, I'm gonna look good. I'm talking about getting down to 5%, 4%. That shit gets nasty.

And I get, I get, I get, I get, it's super cranky dude. Dude, I get stringy, like my, I get, I get strations at high body fats. When I get that lean, I look, it doesn't look good unless I have my shirt off and it's the right, otherwise I just look like, whoa, that poor dude over there. Yeah, so I'm gonna get on some food, dude.

Yeah, you know what I mean? So, yeah, you have this, you know, the gaunt face. I'll get really nasty. So we'll see what happens. See if my girlfriend's still attracted to me. Yeah, big thing. Katrina's like, don't lose your ass. I don't wanna see you lose your,

I like where it's at right now. Yeah, just. Well, you know what you do in juicy pants? When you think about it, like where, especially now, cause I already know that I've started to lean out since we started, this is a very healthy. This is a good topic around what we're

talking about too, is it's so funny, the standards that the fitness space has put on what a healthy quote unquote, I look like our YouTube disproportionate. Right, our YouTube, right, which is fucking troll veil, dude. God damn it. This is a shout out. This is calling all four members that love the talk shit. Like get on the YouTube and get our backs back. Dude, it takes a lot of talk so much shit. Yeah, you know, we don't pick up the brick. We don't really engage with them otherwise.

It would waste all of our time that we're putting into. It would also encourage more faster. Yeah, yeah. So I tell you what, the fucking YouTube just lays and two, and a lot of the comments I'm getting is just like, you know, like I'm like I'm a punk, like I don't fucking look good, like I'm not fit, I'm just like, listen here, motherfucker, me, yeah, I don't respond, right?

I don't respond to it or anything, but it's just funny that somebody would look at my body at, you know, 13, 14% that I'm at, and go, like, make, you think that, and I'm a 37 year old man, right? And who cares, they don't know anything about hormonally when I've gone through. Even if none of that stuff aside,

like, I still look like an active fit person. You know what I'm saying? Like, you still see my muscles in my body. I'm healthy as fuck, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's really crazy. The standard that we've put on On the space that if you don't look bro They do that to pro bodybuilders go on a pro bodybuilder's page and you'll see it in the week

Quads week delts. I'm like he's 280 pounds straight What the fight right, but it's just it's they were talking shit talk shit They just talk shit together. Yeah, that's what they do. You'll see the most terrible racist, sexist, horrible comments ever on YouTube. It's just where they live. It's okay. Because it's kids, that's why. I think it's most of the kids that are attracted to the YouTube platform. So you get a lot of fucking little trolls.

Yeah, it did, dude. 16 years old, talking shit. It's just like when you're playing video games online and, you know, it's just, the words that come out of these kids, like you're just like, oh my God dude, like they're apparently to beat you. Yeah, slap you into the wall. Anyway, check it out. We all have our individual social media pages on Instagram.

Mine is Mind Pump Sal. Adam is Mind Pump Adam, Justin's Mind Pump Justin. Also, we have free guides. A lot of free guides, it's like 12 of them. Some of them teach you how to burn more body fat, do high intensity interval training, build have free guides. A lot of free guides, it's like 12 of them. Some of them teach you how to burn more body fat, do high intensity and normal training, build particular body parts. You can find all of them at minepumpfree.com.

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