Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 825: How to Create Long-Term, Sustainable Fitness Progress

Episode Date: July 30, 2018

The fitness industry is full of the quick fix, body transforming promises. Yes, many of them, if followed, will work in the short run but how many of them are sustainable and keep delivering progress year after year? Very few. In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin go into detail about what it takes to create long-term and sustainable progress in the gym. The Silent Assassin: Doug Egge. How has the 6 Week Fitness Competition been going for him? (2:34) The importance of N.E.A.T. for changing your lifestyle, mood and overall wellbeing. (4:13) Applied knowledge vs. experience. What determines if something works? (20:20) How to Create Long-Term, Sustainable Fitness Progress (24:17) What is the #1 reason why people fall in the trap of the “quick fix”? (46:25) Why push the RIGHT message and not cater to the norm. (52:35) How Trigger Sessions are the true game changer in MAPS Anabolic and the importance of ADAPTATION. (56:06) People Mentioned: Doug Egge (@mindpumpdoug) Instagram Layne Norton, PhD (@biolayne)  Instagram Paul Chek (@paul.chek)  Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere)  Instagram Ronnie Coleman (@ronniecoleman8)  Instagram Related Links/Products Mentioned: Mind Pump Episode 785: Dr. Layne Norton on Taking Charge of Your Diet, Metabolism & Relationship with Food Does Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis (NEAT) - Mind Pump Media The Genius Life Podcast - 19: How to Lose Weight and Get in Shape | Sal Di Stefano MAPS Anabolic - Mind Pump MAPS HIIT Fitness Training Program Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS Split, an expertly programmed and phased muscle building and sculpting program designed to get your body stage ready. This is an advanced program and is not recommended for beginners. Get it at www.mapssplit.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com   Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates.   Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, M's a lot of talk about how, you know, Sal gonna win, is Adam gonna win, is Justin gonna win. People forget. There's a lot of talk, man. It's pretty, it's pretty, uh, loaded over here. It's pretty obvious. Yeah, a lot of shit talk, I should say. But, uh, when a lot of people don't realize

as Doug is, uh, that guy is fucking disciplined as hell. He's the silent assassin. Yeah, so we talk about that in this part of this episode. Then we have a nice discussion around neat, neat stance for non-exercise, we have a neat discussion of neat. Activity, thermogenesis. We talk about that and really good,

really really good conversation. You wanna hear that part of this episode. We talk about activity and mood, how activity affects your mood and how that becomes a self-feeding cycle. We talk about the difference between knowledge and wisdom. There is a big difference. We talk about where fitness studies fail. What went into the creation of maps and a ballack?

This one, I came up with some of the concepts and how I sent the program to Adam. We talked about it and all this other stuff. He was sober for that one. Learn the history of how maps and Abolk got started, and how to create long-term, sustainable progress with your workouts. I also want to mention that at the airing of this episode, there's only two days left for one of the biggest promotions

we've done this year, 50% off Maps and Abolk, the foundational program, great program for building muscle, building strength, and also for speeding up your metabolism, especially if you have a damaged metabolism when you reverse that. Maps and Obolic, great program, half off, so it's under $60.

You can find it at mimepumpmedia.com. On that site, we also have bundles where we combine multiple Maps programs together for specific goals. For example, our Super Bundle is designed to get you from here to the end of the year, at least 365 days have all your workouts planned out for you. You can find all of our bundles and the maps next year. I like that one. And the 50% off maps and a ball, all at mindpumpmedia.com. Doug, we haven't, we've all talked a lot about our, how we've approached this six week contest.

How's your progress going? What are you doing? Yeah. Or did you give up already? Get yourself this big, Dougy. I have just started, really. Listen, I'm gonna be honest with you guys. I know Doug very well and it's quietly competitive.

I'm very, I haven't bothered him at all or said anything or nothing because I know what this fuckers capable of. I've very, I haven't bothered him at all or said anything or nothing because I know what this fuckers capable of. I've seen him, I've seen him. So what's going on, what are you doing? So I'm following MAP Santa Ballock. The first two weeks gonna be, says this is a six week period of time.

The first two weeks are gonna be phase one. The second two week, three weeks will be phase two and then the final week will be phase three. Smart, very smart. What about nutrition? Yeah, I was doing the intuitive thing for the first few days, and then I realized, I'm gonna need to really get a real handle

on my food intake. So I started tracking yesterday. What are you hitting? Yesterday I was about 1800 calories. Oh, hello. Was that a normal day of eating for you? Is that about what you think you would eat? I was, I was careful with my eating.

A couple of things I do every day is I weigh myself and then I put a tape around my midsection, just to see what's going on with that. And I was noticing I wasn't really moving on the scale or as far as my waist circumference was concerned, I wasn't moving on that either. So I thought, well, I better start tracking this and really making sure that the calorie intake is down.

What do you think about your movement since you've been doing mind pump? Are you, you think you're less active or more active? Definitely less active. It's for sure. I don't do any cardio. And my walking is pretty much limited to walking the dog. Mm-hmm.

That's the biggest challenge that I find doing this job compared to things I've done before is that, you know, as a trainer, you're moving all the day. Yeah, you're taking weights, racking weights. Yeah, that adds up so much. And so to switch lifestyles to, you know, talking on the fucking podcast all day long

and sitting, doing YouTube or being on your phone all day, that really has changed how I have to go, after goals like this, it's completely different. Yeah, because I used to, when I trained clients all day long, I was on my feet all day long, and I'd walk back and forth, and it's not a lot, but it's more than what we're doing. This is very common, this is what a lot of people get stuck at,

when, I don't know how many clients I had like this, where, I don't know what happened, also, and I got older, and I just started putting weight on them and then I started backtracking like they're, well listen dude, you were in college. You're eating like you did when you were, yeah, when you were 25 and you were still like school and you had a job that was active

and you were doing active things and then people don't realize how much, like neat, really, really matter. I didn't as a trainer for many years. I never coached to that by the way I do want to Address something with that so somebody tagged you get guys get tagged on Instagram on that with that dude was saying about neat House how they're trying to define it and Lane

When we had Lane here on our podcast. He said the same thing. I thought it was interesting They're trying to define neat as all of the Activity do that doesn't include walking or move that like that's the tech. It's just fidgeting. It's the technical term for it. It is. And I want to be clear, the reason why we include steps with that is how do you track the other ways that you move? Yeah. You know, tracking how your steps is the easiest way that we have currently. And it's the closest thing to the real actual need, right? Yeah, because otherwise we need to sit there

and like fidget more. Right, right, right. Exactly. Walking is, you know, you're not burning that many more calories, walking than you are fidgeting or tapping your foot or whatever. So, yeah, no, technically, which this, this is the thing that always cracks me up.

Yep, same tip. It's so funny. People are so funny. It's like, if it's hold onto that shit. That's not neat. It's like, okay, look. I've been training people for a long time. I know exactly what's gonna be effective,

how to communicate it. And how the fuck do you communicate to a client? We need to fidget more. Yeah, we need to increase your neat. Oh, you want me to get up and move more? No, no, no, no, that doesn't count, isn't it? What I want you to do is, non-exercise activity thermogenesis.

Like, to me, that's unplanned't count, isn't it? What I want you to do is non-exercise activity through mogenesis. To me, that's unplanned movement. Exactly. Otherwise it will be like, let's keep it to that. You're fucking crazy definition that you wanna make sure is super specific. Otherwise, what are you gonna do? Is there a relevant?

Yeah, blink your eyes more and talk more and move your fingers more. Yeah, so that's what counts. So technically, yeah, so technically it's not the definition of it. But that's how I've taught and spoke to clients for God knows how long. It's crazy though when you have people track their steps

because that's the most accurate thing we have to measure activity. We don't have anything that measures fidgeting a lot of stuff. At least nothing that you can use on your own or buy at the store. But I'll have people track their steps, 3000, and a day, 3000 steps. That's sad.

That is, bro, average America is four, bro. Bro, you know what that is, right? That's getting up at a bed, walking downstairs, eating breakfast, walking back upstairs, getting dressed, getting a car, driving close. Yeah, walking to your office, sitting down, working all day, getting up, walking to your car, driving home, that's all it is.

It's literally going from one here to there one sit station to another well Yeah, that's what blew my mind I remember the first time when I first started tracking all that stuff Realizing that holy cow like my average client's only stepping about 4,000 steps and if I just go walk over to the treadmill And literally put it on a speed two and a half to three which is it was like a slow walk. Yeah, that's a stroll Yeah, it's a really I could text on my three, which was like a slow walk. Yeah, it's a stroll. Yeah, it's a really, I could text on my phone and write while I'm doing that, right?

That in a half hours time, you'll surpass that. That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. You know, and it makes you feel, people don't realize, here's an interesting thing too, is when you're in something long enough and consistent enough, you stop realizing how shitty you feel or how it's affecting you because you're always

in it. It's so often so much you get used to it so you don't have a contrast. You know what I'm saying? So when you're that inactive all day long, you don't realize how it makes you feel depressed or anxious or foggy, minded or how it increases cravings for. Incredible. Yeah, or it increases cravings for foods

that cause a spike in dopamine and serotonin like sugars and processed carbohydrates, because if you're sitting there and you're feeling great. What a great point right there you're making. That's so, you got to elaborate on that because that is so true. Anybody who's ever been on or off a diet and been consistent about things like that knows that it's so ironic that when you're actually training hard

and being active and moving, it's easier to stay away from bad foods. When you could actually technically get away with these higher calorie foods are the times when you don't and the times when most people choose to are at the worst time. There's a lot behind that. Part of it is the psychological, we have our comfort foods and things, and we don't realize that we reach to them because we feel flat, or, and it doesn't have to be like this

dramatic depression, when I say depressed, I don't mean you're like clinically depressed. What I mean by that is take what your healthy baseline is and you're like clinically depressed. What I mean by that is take what your healthy baseline is and you're depressed below that. That's what I mean. So you're not like this super sad person, but you are in this kind of depressed state because you haven't been moving all day long.

And what you don't realize is that you will instinctually reach for foods that will elevate certain neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin to make yourself feel a little better. Part of that psychological because you have your emotional connection to them. And part of them is physiological because they do provide those.

They do. You get a nice dopamine hit like after, oh, that's satisfying. And then you get this rush of like, you foray almost for just a split second. You rely on caffeine and sugar and starches because starches fuel serotonin, sugar does the same thing, but also with dopamine and caffeine is dopamine.

So what you see, the cycle is inactive all day long, lots of coffee, sugar, processed carbohydrates, and people are, and then at night, something to depress them even more so they could go to sleep, like alcohol or whatever. And it's the cycle, and then you live in this cycle for so long. And then that becomes normal. Yeah. And so when you ask somebody how they feel, they think they feel great.

That's why I feel fine. This is why I want to. Because you've never felt great. Yeah. And you haven't actively tried it. I definitely can voice into this because of the noticing how little we move now, like with this job, you know, transition. And then like actively trying to accomplish more things around the house. Like, I was power washing my house. I was, you know, trimming everything out. Like, I'm like, motivated to go outside, do things,

be active, like, accomplish tasks. And it builds momentum. Every single time I do it, it builds even more charge, more momentum, more energy, and that just cascades into the rest of the day. Also think about this way too, when you're in a state of, without realizing, you don't even have to be conscious of it. When you're in this kind of flat state because you're not moving, you're, and as a result, you're reaching for these foods which create more ups and downs, you feel crappy. You might not have a contrast, you don't necessarily realize it, but you still feel crappy.

And so what do you do when you feel like you're in a kind of crappy mood or kind of a down situation? What do you do? You want to distract yourself from it. You want to remove yourself from it. And so then you end up going on your phone or your computer, social media. And this is when you start losing hours of the day, dedicated to shit like Instagram, Facebook, and mindless internet searching.

And it's a cycle, it's the cycle of, you know, feeling like shit, trying to eat to make yourself feel better, not really realizing what you're doing, but you're still doing it, and then distracting yourself. Now, when you get up and move and do things, well, you're not distracted, you're actually focused when you're power washing the house

or when I'm doing something, and I'm actually trying to do something in backyard or I'm trying to go somewhere and go on a walk, you're not distracted, you're actually present, you're moving so that makes you feel better. And because you feel better, you don't necessarily reach for the foods that you are gonna give you that quick fix. So it's this, it really feeds into itself.

And people get stuck in this cycle and they stay in it for so long. This is why when I coach people, it's funny. Well, I'll coach people, and then they'll be more active, they'll eat better, and then they'll have a weekend or something where they go off a little bit or they don't do anything all day long, and they'll tell me like, oh man, I feel terrible.

Like I used to do that all day long, and it didn't bother me. I'm like, that's not true. The only reason why you're realizing it now consciously is you have a contrast. Because you were feeling so much better before, and now you're like, whoa, this feels terrible. One of the benefits of having kids is,

it's hard to observe yourself. It's very difficult to observe things within yourself because you're in it. But when you have kids, it's easier because you can, and kids have less filters. Like they don't necessarily, they're not trying to put a facade on for you. Like they're the who they are

and they're gonna let things affect them, whatever. They don't realize like, oh, I'm not a self-aware. Yeah, like, okay, I'm gonna act moodier, crankier, whatever, you know, so I better not act that way because there's always people around me. They just do it. And I can clearly see like, my kids during the day and during the summer, right?

They, if they're not in a camp, then they go to grandma's house or grandpa's house. Now, my ex-wife's dad, old school Italian guy and his wife died years ago, so it was my ex-mother-in-law. And he doesn't know really what to do with kids, doesn't know how to feed him, he ends up just taking him somewhere to eat, doesn't really know what to do with kids. He doesn't know how to feed him. He ends up just taking him somewhere to eat,

doesn't really know what to do. He just kind of raised that way. So when my kids go there, they just go on their computers and devices all day, and he does his stuff in the backyard, and that's his way of taking care of him, right? Right. What a contrast when I go pick up my kids. It's like I'm picking up two cranky zombies.

Yeah. It's literally, when I picked them up, it's two cranky zombies, Yeah. When I go pick it's literally when I pick them up it's too cranky zombies and I know why it's because they were sitting down not moving all day long not interacting on their devices for seven hours or eight hours and when I do that I take them it takes me like an hour to get them out of that state so I take them home all right we're gonna go outside then have to fight them to go outside because the last thing you want to do when you feel shitty is get up and move. You just want to stay in that state, right? It's like I said, it feeds

itself. Which is why I love to coach to need or coach to walking, whatever you want to technically call it, because it's not that much effort to do that. And it's, but it's still challenging to motivate somebody in that state. It's extremely hard much effort to do that. But it's still challenging to motivate somebody in that state, it's extremely hard. And it's even harder to motivate them. You gotta go to the gym and kill it. Or crush it. That's not a light.

That's a harder lifestyle and behavioral change. An easier behavioral change is monitor your activity throughout the day and try and increase the amount of steps that you do throughout the day. So now I have the autonomy to manage my daily activity level. And as I'm doing it, I'm working it into my daily life. And that is a much more effective way of manipulating or modifying my long-term behavior

versus takeout 30 minutes out of the day or an hour out of the day to go do scheduled cardiovascular activity. Like one of the day or an hour out of the day to go do scheduled, cardiovascular activity. Like one of the things I love most about resistance training, this is, I used to sell personal training this way, and it's true, it's 100% true. What I love most about resistance training is you don't need to do it all the time.

Like you don't need to do a lot of it. For it to be effective for the average person, if I took the average person off the street who just wants to get fit, stronger, be able to move better, I can do a lot with two days a week. I don't, I'm talking about people who aren't trying to get super ripped or muscular, just want to get stronger, feel better,

be more fit, speed up the metabolism. I could do a lot with two days a week. Other than that, the daily, day to day activities very, very important in my options are schedule cardio every day, or let's change your daily behavior and neat is by far a more effective long-term strategy? Well, I think that's why we always voice it so much

because I remember when we talked about motivation and we know there was a little bit of push against because a lot of people really do seek motivation. They seek other people, what other people are doing and they want to feed off that energy. They want that people, what other people are doing, and you know, they want to feed off that energy. They want that to kind of be the catalyst and get things moving. And because they're thinking too, too much, they're thinking they have to accomplish too much, like right out of the gates, where if we can get you to think of something that like you barely even notice that makes a

humongous impact, that's what's gonna create these momentum builders. Absolutely, imagine waiting until you were motivated to take a shower or brush your teeth. Imagine if you sat down and you're like, I'm not motivated, I gotta wait for the motivation. You know what I'm saying? Like you do it. You're some stank ass breath.

You don't get motivated to brush your teeth, you just do it, it's just part of your day. And so when you incorporate it into your day that way, your need and your activity, it's a much more effective way to change your lifestyle. And it's just meshing into your daily life. So what ends up happening is I'll have clients who will say things like,

oh, I find myself doing more chores now because I'm more aware of, because that's what it is, rather than aimlessly getting on a machine and peddling away or walking away, it's like, okay, you know, Sal told me to watch my steps, and I'm only hitting 3,000,

and he wants me to six thousand. I needed to clean the garage out anyways. Exactly. It's like, I needed to do this stuff anyways. Like, oh, this gives me a good excuse to make sure I do it. And that's lifestyle. Yeah, right.

Now you're getting, finding purpose behind it. Like, Justin, doing all the shit around the house. Not only were you active, but you also have the dual benefit of feeling like, purposeful. Yeah, you accomplish something, man. You get a lot of whatever. I don't know if it's like euphoria or like what a good word is

for that, but basically like you just feel great. Like you feel like things are working, you know, and moving forward and I'm contributing. And you know, I think about my family and how to benefit them. It's like, why wasn't I doing this before? It's because I was trying to manage that. It was more like I was at maintenance and managing versus being ahead, being active, doing things that are actively contributing. The kids kids see what you're doing, you know, like my wife sees what I'm doing,

and it's all for the positive, wow, you're actually benefiting contributing to your physique and your body. And simultaneously, you know, and ironically, spreading activity out through, if you're just looking at calorie burn, like if we're just looking at cardio, and we just want to burn calories,

we're not necessarily sending a signal like that. That's the part that pisses me off is this is where people get into this debate about this shit, is that it's, oh, you know, if you do it, if we do a heads up study on cardio versus walking all the time, like the cardio's gonna win for fat burning, like from study to stuff, if you're... Well, if you look at time spent,

but here's a funny thing with studies, because they've done this, they've taken groups and they've said, this group over here does an hour of cardio every day. This group over here does two minute sessions a day. So same total time. And this group over here does three 20 minute sessions. Guess which ones burn the most body fat? Three 20s.

That's right. So probably no one's gonna do three 20s. Here's the thing. But neat is spread out. Right need and I don't need a Study to tell me this I've been training of people for so long that I know what is Obtainable for people and I know it's realistic to sustain like I there's certain things that you know people can keep up forever And very few people can make doing you know a half hour hour run every single day or cardio every single day, part of their lifestyle. And who the fuck would want to anyways?

Like it's just not real. Unless you really find the benefit and take the time of time. And you enjoy that. Now that's totally right. And there's nothing wrong with that. And when I have that client in front of me, it's a different conversation.

But a lot of the information that we provide on the show and the YouTube, it's a collection of our experience. And what works with, with the average person, because that's what we're used to dealing with, I get really annoyed when we get into these stupid debates with other wannabe professionals who've just started being a trainer or think they know a bunch of shit. Like the other day on the, my YouTube video, we're talking about bicep curls and somebody's getting technical about how the shoulder is part of the, how about bicep curls and somebody's getting technical about how the shoulder

is part of the how the bicep does a little flexion of the shoulder. Yeah, right. And the idea is I'm trying to teach people good mechanics on a bicep curl and one of the most common mistakes is the rocking of the shoulder and the elbow. I mean, when you look at a bicep curl on 80% of the people that are in the gym that really don't understand mechanics, they go too far at that point. Yeah, they're rocking the shit out of it. Now does that mean that like it's bad? It doesn't work.

It's right. No, it doesn't mean any of those things. It just means like if I can teach some good habits of keeping them in a piston, does that mean it? And then you had somebody who wants to argue in debate, like, well, technically, biomechanically speaking, the bicep inserts that, you know, it's funny about that. I love that. That you're saying this, by the way. Who was, I think it was Paul Check that said, knowledge

or information plus experience equals wisdom, right? I know, it's good to know this throughout. Right, so Adam, you're on that YouTube channel and you are teaching based off of wisdom. Wisdom. You know the biomechanics and you know the science, but you've also trained thousands of people

over two decades, so you know you have wisdom and the wisdom says this, if I teach people to do a curl. Applied wisdom says this, if I teach people to do a curl, a applied knowledge. Yeah, if I teach people to do a curl and flex at the shoulder, because that is technically part of the bicep function.

It's a secondary function really, but it's kind of part of its function because the bicep tendon goes over the shoulder. Here's what's gonna happen. Shitty form bicep tendon inflammation. So my wisdom tells me, right, don't teach people to do it this way. And the shoulder ends up taking more of the movement

because now you're thinking about do that and you're actually encouraging. It's just like, I don't wanna get into semantics with you. And it's crazy because I still preface it with, it's impossible to isolate a part of muscle and still you get muscle. Yeah, it's gonna isometrically be contracting anyway through the process,

but that's all little semantics that you wanna get hung up. Like get out of here with that bullshit, where you're not helping the people that are reading and watching this anymore by trying to debate something like that or that you need to. You're teaching a technique that is sound.

Right, that's it. And that's just that experience. And I think when we communicate things, that's what's the most important thing because you know, you know, what works and what determines what's if something works. because, you know, you know, what works and what determines what's if something works. Like, you take a bunch of people, you know, you train a bunch of clients, what determines whether something works? There's a few components. One of the components is efficacy.

So the most is this thing that I'm teaching effective. It needs to be effective. Not the most effective, not necessarily, but it needs to be effective, but we also have to look at other factors that we have to add into that. For example, how likely is it that the person's gonna do this? Number, that's one of the things over here. Efficacy, how likely is it that they're gonna do this? What are the behaviors that we've noticed in clients when we've tried to communicate this?

And what has worked for people long-term? These are all factors. And what has it? people long-term. These are all. And what has it? What are common mistakes? Yeah, order you'd put it in. Yeah, so like I can look at the most efficacious application of cardio and I can say, I can say, because of the studies and science, hey, if you wake up at 5 a.m. on an empty stomach

and go do hit cardio, you're gonna burn the most body fat. But I know through experience, you're gonna fizz a lot quick. Most people aren't gonna do that, and if they do, they're gonna burn out, and it's not gonna be something you're gonna do long-term. So that actually makes it less effective. So I'm gonna communicate it in a way,

or I'm gonna deliver that message in a way, or I'm not gonna deliver that message, I'm gonna deliver different message like this. Hey, the time of day, and whether or not you ate before cardio, really doesn't matter what's more important is what you prefer, pick the time that you prefer and pick how you feel before cardio,

pick what you prefer, and then do that one. And then do that one. And then do that one. That's it. So that's where that kind of comes from. And it's funny too, it's like when, you know, even with our programs and how we write them out, you know, this is what we put behind the programs that we write is what's

the most effective? Oh, we ping pong all these variables with every single, like, decision that we make in the process of building things from phase one through whatever phase and how many and what we're trying to determine will lead them to this very specific attribute, the most sound way where it's like, you know, it's, it we're considering safety, we're considering, you know, what to put in front of the other,

which tempo to use, like, there's just so many different variables that, you know, I would love to discuss a lot of these variables just to give people to kind of peer into a little bit of the process. Well, just, and think sustainability. Like, you could take a, you could argue and say, like, let's put maps in a box

and that's the foundation and that's what Sal originally created. And this is what was so brilliant about it. I remember when he first shared it with me. I was like, you're right. Like, I could take a six day a week of program that's a split that I've put a bunch more volume into the workouts and put them up heads up and say, hey, in four weeks time, this one could

outperform this program. But the reality of it is very few people consistently month in, year out, train six days a week or more and can maintain that high of volume on the body. So what we know from experience is that 90% of the people that are coming in here that are trying to learn how to train their body properly are way better off following something that's more of a three day a week routine that touches all the muscles.

So a full body type of workout because that's something that's realistic, even on a busy week, even if you traveled, even if you did some things, you could still keep up that program, which we know, and we've said this a million times, is that an inferior program done consistently is far better than a superior program done inconsistent. That's right. And then we, of course, the trigger sessions are thrown in there for people who are the

super consistent. I'm going to do this thing every day. And then, of course, watch. It's funny, I just got a, so I was on Max Lugavier's podcast, and I got some messages from people who listened to that podcast, and I had a couple of people contact me.

One of them was this young lady, and she says, she says to me, you know, I'm stuck at 18% body fat, I can't get leaner. I liked what you said on on Max's podcast Like what do you think I should do? So I say okay. Well, what's your routine look like now? And how many calories you reading? She's eating 1500 calories a day. She's doing two

soul cycle Classes a week plus a Pilates class stricted calories Plus a Pilates class. Yeah, plus she's doing circuit training throughout the week. And that's her weight training. Right, that's her weight training. Now, as we're talking about, she's like, well, I mean, studies show that hit training and circuit training is more effective for fat loss. And I'm doing all the things that are

effective for fat loss. I said, yes, science will show that in a six week or 10 week period, or even 12 week period, that is going to be more effective for fat loss. However, you've been doing this for a very long time and now you're at the point because you've been hammering. Very adapted. Well, and you've hammered this for so long that now doing all that activity, you're only

consuming 15-hour calories and you can't get leaner. Where do we go from here? I said, we need to build the base and strengthen your body and build your metabolism. So I recommended MAPS and a Balak, and here's what's gonna happen, if she follows through with my advice. She's gonna follow MAPS and a Balak, and I told her to slowly cut out and cut down all that crazy intensity stuff.

I told her to cut out the circuits right now, leaving the sole cycle, but cut that out eventually as well, because I don't want a huge rebound. Slowly increase your calories, here's what's gonna happen. Her body weight's not gonna change. Nothing's gonna change, except she's gonna get stronger, and she's gonna be able to eat more calories.

After about anywhere between, depending on how good and healthier her body is, between four to eight weeks, she's gonna see that her calories are up by a few hundred calories, if not more every day with less intense activity. She's gonna be stronger, she's gonna be more sculpted, and then when she's gonna cut her calories, boom!

Her body's gonna get lean, and she's gonna feel amazing. But people don't communicate this, and the studies don't necessarily show this, because studies are, they're short, you know what I mean? And I know this, when I put together maps and a ball, like I looked at it and I said, okay, can I create a program that, in theory, based on my experience and based on science, that people will be able to go through the full thing,

which is if you do pre-phase is 12 weeks, if you don't do pre-phase it's nine weeks, but who will be able to go through, learn about their body, be able to modify it, and theoretically be able to cycle through that program indefinitely, and get close to reaching their genetic potential, because that's always the goal. The goal is, if you look at your ultimate genetic potential

of fitness, strength, muscle, your ability to lose fat, all that stuff, you may have a limit, right? A genetic limit. Most of us don't even come close to that because all the variables like our sleep, our training, is it good, is it not good, our food, all that stuff? This is where studies go wrong for us, is they control for all these variables

that the average human doesn't. It's like, yeah, okay, well, when everything is all equal, this type of cardio could be better or this type of training or this type of eating could be better for you. But problem is what we know is that most people fuck up all those other variables

that potentially really affect what this whole study is trying to prove. So this is where I get frustrated with studies because people hang on to the detail zone and they argue and debate them. It's like, well technically that girl was doing all the stuff that the study said she should do, right? Like here's a good example. And those are usually with athletes in these studies.

Dude, here's a great example. A study will show that doing hardcore sprints for 15 minutes is going to burn more body fat than just increasing your steps and doing more neat throughout the day. Now, if I took 100 people off the street who wanted to get in shape, how many of them, what percentage of them would you prescribe hardcore sprints 15 minutes? Right. You know what I'm saying? 10%, maybe 5%, maybe, first off, people can't sprint without hurting themselves on the rest.

It's recipe for disaster immediately. And second of all, if they could sprint, they probably have so much stress in life anyway, or lack of sleep or whatever, that throwing super intense stuff is gonna cause them to burn out like in four weeks. You see what I'm saying? So that's, so when I put the program together,

I said, okay, can I design something that people can effectively cycle through and modify as they learn their own body? But always be able to continue doing that. Could you go through a phase one, two, and three? Could you change your trigger sessions and will this is this something that you can do? Theoretically and definitely and get your product body to continue to progress and the answer is yes. The other thing I did when I did when I put that together is I had to decide where do I put the phases? You have your heavy training of phase one you have your moderate reps of phase two and your higher reps and supersets of phase three and I could have put the phases and lots of different direction and I thought to myself The average person that's going to get this program is going to have some experience in the gym

It's not necessarily for beginners, although I did I did control for that by putting pre-phase in there. But the average person is gonna be like, okay, I've worked out before, I work out a little bit. Which phase is gonna be the one to cause the most change to take them out of what they're probably doing the most of? Well, that's phase one. Most people are probably stuck in the 8 to 15 rep range and doing the traditional.

So I put phase one first and I knew that the phase two would follow best in the phase three something that you know would be a great way to finish up on. And I put pre-phase for people who I thought to myself, okay, but a lot some people are not going to be prepared to train in that one to five rep range. What do I do for those people? I put pre-phase in there. Yeah, and even, yeah, that phase one is super intimidating for your average person, because you, I mean, you're relying on now loading a substantial amount of weight to be able to get the true benefit from it, but you have to have good mechanics. You have to know somewhat what you're doing, so that pre-phase is a great addition to that. I've also had messages from people who say, oh, studies show that phasing your workouts throughout the week are more effective in studies, like for example, instead of doing three weeks of a particular phase,

three weeks of another phase, they'll say, oh, do one workout heavy during the week, do another workout that's lighter during the week, and do it all in the same week. And here's, again, where experience comes in. I know if I take the average person and I move them through low rep, heavy training, moderate and high rep all in the same week, that is a mind shift that's too fast. It changes the focus of the, you know, because there's a completely different-

It's also hard to tell what's really, your body's really responding. You don't know what's working. Yeah. You don't know exactly what's working. That's another thing when you go to the studies where we talk about like the daily undulation and stuff. It's like, okay, well, it shows that it's as good

or more beneficial. Problem with that is, though, and I remember, because that's how I trained. I used to, you know, I did the whole muscle confusion, right? Where I was constantly, that's how, as a kid, I was always trying different, different things, different to different things. And yeah, overall, I was in shape, but what I didn't,

I wasn't learning my body. I wasn't learning like,, I wasn't learning like, hey, when I do this, this is how it responds, and when I do this, this is how that responds, that's where the benefits of following a phase for three or four weeks out of a time, so you can really measure, like, oh wow, because here's the other variables

that nobody talks about, is, you know, within all these phases, different people are gonna respond better to different phases. And this is, so I always look at the way, and this is again why I loved Annabalak when you first introduced it to me, was it's not just giving you a badass program, it's teaching you, it's teaching you how,

and that was really the ultimate goal, is that getting people to understand the things that really matter the most, and if you can go through these programs, you can also learn how to do it yourself. It's like, the idea is that you have to rely on us for it just like when you used to train a client. Like, my goal always with a client was not that you would have to rely on me to write your workout for the rest of your life.

Like, I used to annoy me if a client would be like, oh, just tell me what to do. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You're gonna fucking learn this shit because you don't wanna be a dependent on jazz or size. Yeah, no, it's not, you're gonna be a me just sitting here randomly throwing things at you because really if it's gonna evolve

and you're gonna get better, it's you're really going to learn your body, how it responds and you'll know even better than I do what works better for you. That's, and that's the difference between, I think, between people who are writing workouts for people and just like here follow this, follow it. And a lot of programs are sold that way.

Here's the workout, here's the workout. No, I want to write, and we do give you a workout, we do write it out for you. But the goal really is to get you to a point where you figure your body out, you can modify it, and which is happening, which is fucking exciting. It's very exciting for me to see in our forum. Oh, our forum is a good show.

So this is why the forum's so rad because in the forum, most of our OGs that have been around since date, this is how I do, this is my version of Maps on a Baller. Here's how I do my programming. And I'm looking at the programs that these people are writing. And sometimes I'll help them and be like,

okay, maybe you need to put this here or that there. But many times I look at it and go, they're pretty intuitive. Yeah, I'm like, well, they fucking learn. They're starting to figure this out and they're able to do this for themselves. This is phenomenal. Now the reason why a lot of people have trouble teaching that is because they're afraid they're going to lose a customer.

They're afraid, well, if I teach them how to do this, then they're never going to need me ever again. Yeah, I'm scared. My 20 years as a trainer and your guys is same experience in this industry has proven otherwise. The reason why I was as successful as I was as a trainer and I know you guys were is because we took a different approach. Our approach was I'm going to teach this person how to really be able to do this. You build and establish trust. And that's the bottom line.

It's like they trust you when they know you have their best interest in mine. I'm not trying to get you to just run through the workout. That's right. You literally have to own the process and ask questions and provide that feedback. We'll give you feedback as well. And it's all an open-ended conversation the whole way through. Excellent. Did I tell you guys how I tested Maps at Obolic initially when I first created it? With clients. Yeah, so here's what I did, right?

So I wrote the program, and of course it was a accumulation of knowledge, and it's not breakthrough in the sense that it wasn't something that I, you know, I was a breakthrough. It was a really accumulation of a lot of knowledge I had through experience, and also through observing old-school bodybuilder routines and strong man routines and all these other things.

So when I first created it, I thought to myself, okay, I need, I know it's gonna work for sure, but you always wanna test it out. And I wanted to test it out to see, A, are people gonna do it? How are they gonna feel with their feedback? Like everything, right? So I looked for a beginner.

I looked for someone who was in advanced age, I looked for someone who I looked for just the average Joe client, I looked for the bodybuilder, and I found all those people. So I actually had, you know, I had a female friend of mine, very experienced figure competitor who's basically, you can say she's a bodybuilder, she just doesn't take steroids. So I had her test it, I had my client Jim Jim, who'd been working out for 30 years, fit, but he's also 70 years old. So I had him test it. Of course, I had Doug test it,

who would be your more dedicated, you know, average person, right? Just regular dude, want to get fit, also dedicated, test it it on myself. And then I sent it to a bunch of friends and dudes that are kind of the younger guys who've been doing body parts splits, and then I got my feedback, and it was incredible.

I've seen you also sent it to people like myself. Oh, what I wanted from you, because I knew, I mean, I knew you, I didn't know Justin at the time, but I knew you knew what you were doing. You've been doing this as long as I was, and I knew about your success, and so I'm like, I wanted you to look at it and see how it was put together, and how it was presented,

and I wanted your opinion. That's what I specifically told you. I'm like, yeah. And one look at it and see how it was put together and how it was presented. And I wanted your opinion. That's how you specifically told you. I'm like, yeah. And one of the things that you haven't really touched on that I knew was so important, and because I had fallen for the opposite trick as a trainer, I used to do the, you know, come up with the most creative exercises.

You know, like, I was always writing programs. P90X approach. Right, I was always writing these programs that the way I would impress a client is I would teach them a movement that they had never seen before. You know, and then they would feel it from that and they would get sore from that. And then that and so I was feeding into that. When in reality I wasn't teaching what was probably benefiting the majority of people's bodies.

Now it's not to say what I was doing wasn't helping people or wasn't changing their bodies too. And so that's where I got stuck in there for a long time because I was successful and this was, it wasn't until later in my career as a trainer, did I really start looking at the programming and looking at what was really the best bang for the buck. And really I noticed it because like Sal said, I know he's the same way.

I was training my clients really well, but I was training myself that way, you know, doing all kinds of weird stuff all the time. But then I was like, if I stayed to the staple full body type of routines to the client two or three times, we were like, yeah, their bodies are responding and changing. And you know, it was those movements that I had been neglecting, like the squatting, like the dead lifting, like the dead lifting, like the overhead pressing, because you know what, they're fucking hard.

They're hard, they're hard to teach, they're hard to do, they're hard to get up for. And it's much easier to sit on a machine or it's much easier to go do some fun creative exercise that you're doing, but in reality, those are the ones that are really the biggest bang for the buck and that will, for the most part, really change

Somebody's physique because they're probably not doing those and when I looked at them like you know, it's great is The beauty within the program is its simplicity in the choices of exercises Which is remember when we first started that would be like a little bit of a Pushback on that because people are still so trained. Oh, I know all the experts are so- Yeah, they want something like they can hope you know flashy enough. Yeah, right? It's like, oh, this is just squatting and deadlifting and overhead pressing and rowing and bench press.

Like, these have been around forever. It's like, there's a reason why. Yeah, right. Exactly. Because the ones that work, right? It's funny too. You know, there was a, what was the program? Was it the, God, I can't remember.

What's Rippetose program? Oh, Starting strength. You know, starting strength was a program that still to this day has got lots of value. And that's why, that right there. It has staying power. Because he has people doing the most effective type exercise. I remember when I, for me, it was just a mind blowing moment

while I was training my clients. And I started to realize, like, wait a minute, I don't care who this person is. I don't care how old they are or how decondition they are. My goal is to get them to be able to do first, to be able to do a squat, a deadlift, an overhead press, a bench press, a row, whatever, basic movements. And then when they're able to do them, I can use other exercises and stuff to get them better to do that, those movements and get them stronger at those.

And so I started applying that on my clients and holy shit the results Especially with my older clients everybody got great great results But my older clients fucking their progress exploded and I know why is because Every trainer they'd been to before was afraid to have them even attempt to do some of these movements Yeah, but now I got these 77 year old clients who sometimes it would take me months or a year to even get them to attempt to do just the bar on a deadlift. But once we got to that point and then we started deadlifting and I started adding weight. I was very smart about it. Of course, I trained them appropriately.

They would come to me and they'd be like, I've never, I haven't felt like this for 20 years or I can reach up above my head and grab a glass out of the cupboard or I can close the trunk or I walk up the stairs now without holding on to the railing and I remember thinking like, and this is like after, literally, this would be after weeks of doing, of getting to the point where you could do squats and stuff.

So as soon as I can get them to do those movements and we could add weight, it was like within a matter of weeks they'd come to me and be like, what the hell is going on with my body? Like well, we got you the point now where you could do these fucking awesome movements. And that's why those are the staples in that type

of a program, that's what we call it the foundational program or what we tend to see. Some people there. Yeah, we try really hard not to stray away from those. I mean, we basically call it the meat and potatoes of like, it's the bone structure of the entire map system. And that's something that we make sure to stay true to because it's the further away you get from those

very staple exercises that you mentioned. By, at that point, it's just like, it gets away from you and it just becomes this sort of flash in the pan and fancy skilled type moves where what really works and what's gonna drive your body forward the most, you know, that's always gonna be the best of it. It needs to be the foundation. I mean, those are the real foundational movements.

And then, and I was trapped in this where I was reading the magazines and reading what Ronnie Coleman was doing and, you know, all the guys and, and they talk, these guys talk all about the, the little stuff, right? And how to to sculpt the physique and working on these little muscles

and doing these unique moves to target, apart of a, well, yeah, those guys have built a crazy foundation over the last 15 years plus of their life. And so they can look at these little movements that address that help shape and sculpt the body, and it absolutely does work in a smart way. But you can't do that without the foundation.

You can't do that very successfully without the foundational movements, which is the big gross mode of movements that give you the biggest pain for you. No, the foundation is so important. I mean, if you're, let's say you're a woman and you want to get leaner, and I say this because it's easier to communicate this to men

because if I tell guys, build muscle and strength, they're like, cool, I'll do that. But sometimes when I say this to women, easier to communicate this to men because if I tell guys build muscle and strength, they're like cool, I'll do that. But sometimes when they say this to women, the meaning is lost or whatever. So that's why I like to communicate to them. It's like look, would you like to be in a position where maintaining a lean physique requires less work and where you can eat more and get away with eating more?

And would you like to be in a position where your hormones feel balanced most of the time, or at least you're not depressing your hormones or causing crazy imbalances because you're applying too much exercise or whatever? And the answer is yes, and then I tell them, okay, that's good. Now sometimes we're gonna throw in these advanced techniques.

Sometimes we're gonna throw in these crazy workouts. But for the most part, if that's where you wanna be, focus on getting stronger, focus on the foundation, and focus on building a healthy, strong metabolism. That's what's gonna give you what you're looking for. That's gonna put, and I've done this so many times with clients where they'll come to me in particular female clients where they're doing all

this exercise, they're eating solo calories, their bodies rebelling, they don't know what to do with it. And I tell them, give me six months, we're gonna try and reverse ass and fix this. And then they come to me and they're like, this just happened recently, I had a client who I'm coaching right now, who I've had to, every day I'm on text with her, every single day,

I'm like, consoling her, like, listen, I know right now, you're eating more, I know you're not doing all the crazy cardio, I know I'm having you do all these heavy lifts, and you're afraid of getting bulky. Trust the process, trust the process. You know, this is what's gonna happen. And, you know, she goes on ways herself, you know, two months later, and she texts me,

she's like, I can't believe it. And I'm like, what? She's like, I lost two pounds. I didn't think I'd lose weight, not moving as much, eating more, and focus on lifting heavy. And I said, the funny thing is, we're not even trying to get you to lose weight at all, yeah, that's not even the goal. That's happening because your metabolism's faster.

I said, now forget all that, how do you feel? Oh, I have more energy. I sleep better, my libido's better. I don't feel like hormonal swings happen as often. I said, this is where you want to be. Now, when we want to get you leaner, we can use certain things to get you there, but how nice is it to be in the spot?

And we're only scratching the surface. We're only seeing the tip of the iceberg, and that's where you want to be. And that comes from, when we talk about the context of modern life, that comes from building your metabolism through building muscle, increasing mobility through your strength,

and it comes through working with those things in appropriate ways long-term. That's where it comes from. If you want to lose weight in three weeks, you want to get in shape in two weeks because you're going to Vegas, yeah, you can throw in a bunch of crazy cardio and restricting calories and all that stuff. I get that, but you're going to be alive for a lot longer than two weeks. You're going to live with this body for a long time. Don't get stuck in that cycle because I promise you,

you're gonna end up six months a year from now, two years from now, going, why can't I lose a single pound, even though I'm only eating 1300 calories, I'm doing all this cardio, or why do I feel so stressed out all the time? Why does my body feel squishy? Why am I just so stressed?

Why does it feel like I'm fighting my body? And the reason why is, because you are. Well, what do you think is that? Why does it feel like I'm fighting my body and the reason why is because you are? Well, what do you think is that why do you think is that is like what's the what's the number one reason why people Fall into this trap. What do you think? I think the information? Mm-hmm that they're getting is I think if people communicated what we're doing right now and they heard it enough I and they tried it then it would start to become more popular and I I think it's starting to happen, but for the longest time, when... I just, yeah, I don't think people are informed. I don't think that they know there's more than one method to lose fat and lose weight.

I try and give people a little bit more credibility that. And I think going through this six week thing that we're going through right now, the things that come to mind for me are just, you know, I, even myself, I struggle with things that come to mind for me are just, you know, I even myself, I struggle with the results not coming fast enough. Or you want, you want to see this quick transformation. And you know, when you're doing things really the right way, it really is very slow. Like if you, if you are training correctly and you're eating correctly, there's not these huge swings in weight. There's not these huge physical changes in the mirror. It's very, very gradual and slow.

You're slowly burning some fat and you're slowly building a little bit of muscle which results in little to no movement on the scale and very little change in the mirror. And it takes time. So learning to trust the process, I think, is probably what I think is one of the number one things that people, because even the people that, like, there's people listening right now to this show, that still struggle with this. Of course, you could have listened.

You're absolutely right. I mean, we're conditioned for make everything quick, efficient, and that way that like everything we do is optimized like to the end level so you don't have to spend so much time to get the result of what you want. And much of life is you get what you put in where with fitness it's a little bit different. It's not about, it's not an effort thing. It's not like, hey the harder I work and the more effort I put into this, the more results I'm gonna get. Well, maybe effort, but effort shifted in a different direction. It's not always physical effort or intensity. Some of that effort is mental discipline and consistency versus that. But we-

Well, the work is the benefit. Right. You know, which is a hard, hard concept to wrap your head around. Right. Because like me going in and putting in work, oh my god, that's a benefit to my body. Well, I think also the information, I mean, look, for how long now when people, the recommendations for activity or what, 30 minutes of vigorous activity every single day, what is the, and what does that mean, vigorous activity, cardio, right? What is the,

the information that's been pushed forever about fat loss, burn calories. Burn as many calories as possible. Sweat, get sore, go running, or you need to do that. I remember how many times have you had a client where you train him in the first session, they're like, I'm not even sweating that much. Are we doing anything? It's like, we're doing a lot.

Like that's not how you gauge what you'll be ready for tomorrow too. You know, the best way to gauge your progress is by your progress. Not how hard it feels or how should you feel or any of that stuff. Gage about how you feel in a good way and also gauge it by your progress in the long term.

Because right, in the short term, we can get people lose. I can have some loose five pounds in two days. That's not hard. Two day five pound weight loss. You want a two day program? Right. The funny shitty thing is I put out a program like that,

but we'd sell a whole bunch of them. Well, look at it. If loose five pounds, too. Well, look what happened with hit. I mean, hit was, and we knew it, which is why we waited as long as we did, because it's counter the message that we're trying to send to people. But we also know there is a place for it. It is a very useful tool.

So of course, we're going to put it out there. But you know, so many, I mean, you can't tell me that it being one of our number one selling programs isn't because that people are drawn to that. They're drawn to the, oh, it's two weeks and fast and hard and intense. And it's like, it's unfortunate. Well, even strength training, like, like, let's look at it this way, right? Even with strength training, we've seen a research, a huge growth in people's interest in lifting weights.

And a lot of that is the female consumer, because they've now entered into the lifting weights market more than ever. And a lot of it's due to CrossFit. But even that message is... Fuck up. Yeah. Because it's the fucking go for balls of the wall, sweat your ass off, nonstop, type of movement.

It's like this. We always do as humans. We swung one way. So hard, and then you swing the other way. And the beauty is like, you know, and this is the positive side of CrossFit is it was, it's getting people in the gym. Yeah, it's getting people to go back, it's swinging the pendulum back to the right direction, right?

It's like, there's good exercises in there. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's the good part about it is that it's swinging people away from this silly bodybuilder, everyone trying to be a bodybuilder when you have no business trying to be like a bodybuilder because you're nowhere near that yet, that type of lifting or training. And you should be doing these types of movements. And so, I could totally praise CrossFit, but like anything else, we swing one way really

hard, now we swing the other way. And that's what you're getting with the wads and the intensity and the reps to failure and am wraps and so like that. I think if we sell the message of speeding up your metabolism versus just trying to burn calories, if we sell that well enough, I think that message is gonna spread and I think people will start to get it.

I really do, because it's a good message and it's an easy one to communicate. Like I can tell someone, would you like a fast metabolism? Or would you like a slow metabolism? Everybody's gonna be like, oh, I'd like a fast metabolism. I'd like to be able to burn more calories just without doing anything extra. Okay, this is the way to do it.

I think if we communicate it like that, I think we'll have a chance versus the, this burns, because it used to be, people used to measure a workout by calories burned. In fact, that's how they sell cardio equipment. You get on there and how many calories I burned. Oh, that means it was the most effective, or? And they started quitting that to like your menu

and burgers and being at, you know, the cheesecake factory. Well, if I burn 500 extra calories, I can eat this. Yeah, so I think if we sell the, you know, speeds up your metabolism message, I think people will start to kind of come over a little bit. And it's changing, I tell you what, here's a funny thing too, when Doug and I first put together the marketing for Maps and Abolic.

First of all, the name is not female friendly, right, has anabolic in the title. It talks all about building muscle. It's got all those heavy lifts. It's me and they're talking, it's not some woman, but I did know muscle. It's got all those heavy lifts. It's me and they're talking. It's not some woman, but I did know that. That's pretty dude heavy. I got to push this message. I got to push the right message and not cater to the bullshit

message and the irony now. I think we might have more women on maps than a ball of the men or maybe at least half, which when I first came out with it, I was like, this will be interesting to see. It seems surprising, but it really isn't because of what they have in the market. Well, when it comes to The results that's the honest with our experience it will benefit women more than it'll benefit men from as it if we're looking at a total contrast. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean like because women have been sold the toning high rat high reps, circuit training for years, for years, for years and years and years. So, and it's not to say that it's not incredibly beneficial for most men too. It's just that contrast.

But there's such a great contrast with women that, you know, our women clients that go through it. It's like holy shit, game changer. And so that's why my body's changing, which is why I think it's, and this is like when you, when you know you've done really well, pat ourselves in the back here like business-wise, right? When it's organically grown because it's the results. Like we don't have to push all kinds of advertising when we first started this business

because we knew that if five women picked this program up and they started following it, that minimum four or five of them were going to be blown away from it. Yeah. Things are changing too, because you guys remember when we first started, how we had to make the case for full body workouts, remember that? Yeah. We had to have that debate. Nobody's having that debate anymore.

I think, and it really is, I think people are realizing like, training the body more frequently. It's not really the full body is a great way to break it up when you do it this way, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way really it's about Training muscles more frequently than once a week right rather than doing the one day a week and hammer yourself Way to the following week to hit that same muscle group. It's about more frequency That's not a debate really anymore once we start which is kind of notice that like it was like gaining less

Opposition like we come up with split gaining less opposition, like we come up with split. Yeah. It's like, I love that. You know, just because there's that whole dogmatic sort of stick with one thing that you've tried to put out there and really aggressively kind of change people's minds with, but we're not married to that concept. Well, no, even when we were pushing full body, we were pushing it because a majority of people would benefit of it, but no one was ever saying

that it's superior for all people than it is in a split is. Because that was never part of the ride. Because if you're somebody, I mean, I follow, like when we look at the programming that's put into split, that most closely resembles the way I train for a show. But when I train for a show, I had also put in all the maps and a bulk type of work before him. I built up to that.

And I've made that consistency before I step into a program that's asking me to be in the gym six days. It's also important to communicate this, like some of them might hear that and say, well, I'm just gonna skip that part and go right to the part that you're doing now because your advanced, what doesn't work? It doesn't work that way.

You can't, if you skip and jump to something, your body will actually not progress. Not only not progress as fast, but in many cases, it goes back to what we always say. We're always trying to do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. And if that's why would I want to jump right away to what we would consider an advanced program of ours,

when I know I could reap a ton of benefits from the foundational program. Here's what's most exciting, because now the programs now been available, the original Maps and Unboxing been available now for two and a half years at least. And what's most exciting for me is I think people are finally starting to discover the importance

of the consistency with the trigger sessions. Because I knew that that would be the one thing that people would kind of, you know, sometimes I do them, sometimes I don't. And now that people have gone through it enough times, I'm starting to get messages where people are like, oh shit, when I do them every day, three times a day on the off day, that makes a big difference.

I can definitely see how people used it as an afterthought, like it was something that was a sort of in-betweener, didn't put a lot emphasis on it, you know, didn't try it three times a day, because that might have felt like, well, I don't know if I can do that, or, you know, I can do maybe once, but, you know, really just like going through it to the T makes such an impact. Huge, huge difference in fat loss and in muscle gain, the fat loss, because you do three trigger sessions a day, you're doing an additional 20 to 30 minutes of activity because it's divided up,

right? Five to 10 minutes each time. So you end up burning body fat. The anabolic signal that it sends, that one of the things that it does do is it helps your body want to take calories and put them to muscle and take some and bring them to fat. And what that does is that's also reducing the potential metabolic adaptation or the slowing down of the metabolism. That just lots of cardio may end up doing. Um, so it's got all these awesome,

don't benefit really what adaptation is is the body preparing for something that it's going to get hit with again because you keep telling it that this is going to be a regular thing. So what's what better than to prepare the body for more muscle than to continually be sending this signal that it's going to have to do work? And that's where the acronym comes from. That's where the, you know, map stands for muscular adaptation programming system. Adaptation is when you're working out your goal ultimately, unless your goal is just to enjoy the time you're spending working out and you which is nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that either. But at the end of the day, what people work out for, start working out for is they want

their body to change, they want to get stronger, more fit, whatever. And that's all adaptation. That's all it is. It's just an adaptation process. And so the goal is, how do I get my body to adapt in the most effective way possible? That's it. That's all it is. It's not how hard I can work out. It's not how sore I can get.

It's not how much I can beat my body up. Unless those things are what get your body to adapt in a more effective way, none of that fucking matters. All that matters is, what can I do to get my body to adapt in the most effective way possible? And that's why I wanted to put adaptation in the acronym, or you know, that's why I want to put it in the name of the program So we could start to communicate that message rather than the message of how sword you get, you know Yeah, or how hard you work out or you won't be smooth all the time But that's in fucking if your body's not changing, not changing. Like what does that matter?

I know, yeah. Unless the whole purpose is to just have a piece of road work out, which every once in a while. Well, this has been, it's been great to, this has been, this is the first time ever since we've started Mind Pump that we ran a 50% off sale on the program all month long. And we've, we've sold more units this month

than we have ever sold before. So I'm really excited we're going to have a wave of people coming through that are running the foundation. Lots of new users man. And I'm excited that a lot of the people doing it are what I'm seeing right now are people who first started, now just started listening to us and then I'm also getting a lot of women who are like, okay, I want to speed up my mentality. I'm like, fuck yes, like you're starting to hear the message, this is perfect, because the build muscle message was easy to communicate, that one's a little harder, and we're seeing a lot more of that,

and so I know we're directing people in the right direction, so it's pretty exciting. And I think when this airs, I know the promotion's still going on, but Doug, that's correct, there are two days left when this airs. That's correct. Okay, so you're listening to this episode, you have two days to get maps and a ballad for half off,

which under 60 bucks and you get full access to the program. You also, when you get that, when you get the program, a lot of people don't know this as you get an option. As soon as you buy it, a thing will pop up and offer you 50% off the forum access. So for under a hundred bucks, you can pretty much get the arched what we call our foundational program then access the forum, which I highly recommend to anybody who's like at all even hesitant to get started on a program because they're

nervous of, oh, I don't know if I'll be able to do it or I'm scared about form. That's where the forum is really designed to support all of the programs and design. It's, we've built this community over the last three and a half years. There's all kinds of brilliant minds in there. A lot of the guests that you guys have heard on the show as far as some of the PhDs that we've had on here, they're inside there. So they're in their answering and helping and answering questions. We're in there all the time.

We have people post videos of their movement. So you can post a video of you doing some of the exercises from the program. Within minutes, you'll have a response from either one of us or another professional that will get on there and then help you and coach you through that. So don't forget about that. I think we don't talk about that a lot, but when you buy any of our programs,

and when you do that, we automatically give you an offer to get instant support system. Yeah, 100%. Excellent. Also, we have a lot of free guides, so when we give out lots of free information, so if you don't want to buy anything or whatever, you just want more good information

from MindPump, go to MindPumpFree.com, and then you can also check out our social media pages on Instagram. My page is MindPumpSal, Adam is MindPump Adam, and Justin is MindPump Justin. Thank you for listening to MindPump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media.com.

The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phasedased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout nutrients and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com.

If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump. by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.