Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 892: Rich Gaspari

Episode Date: November 1, 2018

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin interview Rich Gaspari, bodybuilding legend and founder of Gaspari Nutrition, an innovator in the supplement industry. Rich built Gaspari Nutrition to a $100 million company, lost it and is now back at the helm. Hear this and other fascinating stories in this podcast.  The evolution of fitness conventions. (5:34) Bringing conditioning to another level…Rich details his pursuit into bodybuilding. (6:55) Did he believe to get to the next level you had to take supplements? (13:23) What was the response from his level of conditioning? (18:17) Why did he decide to make a comeback after an injury? (19:51) From bodybuilding legend to founder of Gaspari Nutrition, how he became an innovator in the supplement industry. (24:28) At what point did he realize he was doing something great? (27:34) From the basement to $100 million dollar company. The grind in the beginning of Gaspari Nutrition. (32:08) How did he pick the growth hormones he sold in the beginning? (37:00) It’s all about the mouth feel…how he changed the game in the protein market. (43:39) What was the scaling process like as his company grew? (46:20) How did the change in marketing affecting his business? (47:30) From building Gaspari Nutrition to a $100 million dollar company, to filing for bankruptcy: How he gained the reins back to the company he built. (50:46) What does he think of the market now since getting control back? (56:47) His take on facade supplement companies. (1:00:45) Do any other brands impress him? (1:04:00) What emerging trends excite him? (1:06:35) How the most important sale is the 2nd sale. (1:12:10) What are his thoughts on Amazon entering the supplement market? (1:15:15) Does he feel like an uncaged lion since getting control of his company back? (1:19:24) What was the most memorable moment in his bodybuilding career? Business career? (1:23:15) What are his top physiques in bodybuilding? (1:26:55) Does he believe the drug culture is affecting the current crop of bodybuilders? (1:28:19) Featured Guest/People Mentioned: Rich Gaspari (@richgaspari)  Instagram Gaspari Nutrition Dorian Yates (@thedorianyates)  Instagram Lee "Hercules" Haney (@lee_haney_official)  Instagram Ronnie Coleman (@ronniecoleman8)  Instagram Flex Wheeler ® | Official (@officialflexwheeler)  Instagram Links/Products Mentioned: SR Hawaiian Classic Steroids Detected In Dietary Tablets - Washington Post Bodybuilding & Weight Loss Supplements Online - Legion Mind Pump Episode 855: Flex Wheeler

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Man, so this was another treat for me. It was a little salbona right now. I know, I know, and man, it's a little hero. You know, I can see it from here. He's a Richka Sparrow.

So we just had a podcast with Rich Kaspar. Now, Kaspar was one of the top bodybuilders of the 80s, but then he got into the supplement business in the 90s and smashed it. Brilliant. Brilliant marketing. A lot of people are going to wonder, like, why would we even bring somebody like that

on the show? Because of our stance on supplements. And it wasn't about what supplements work for you. I had no desire to get into debates about branch chain amino acids or what I think about pre-rept promoting pro hormones or anything right. I definitely talked about it, but it's important to talk to somebody who is one of the pioneers in the space, man. He's partially responsible for where it is today, man. I mean, absolutely. He was one of the first guys to sell the designer steroids

when they were legal. And he talks about, he's very honest. He's very open about everything. The way he, Gaspari, is one of the key people to create the pre-workout market. So all the massive market of supplements that makes up now, the pre-workout market, which are some of the top sellers

in whatever you wanna call them performance supplements, that market almost did not, barely existed at all until people like Rich Kaspari came out and I mean, just brilliant marketing. It was brilliant marketing, it was brilliant product and it exploded and made his company huge. And so we talked about that, we talked about the marketing behind it.

And then I had no idea they had gone through some financial issues and some personal issues and how he wasn't even full owner of his company. Oh, so great. I love when guys like him open up and share the financials and stuff, just because I mean, this is, I love hearing that because there's a lot of, a lot of charlatans, there's a lot of people, especially now, more than ever in the supplement space that put fluff their numbers.

I mean, everybody fucking fluff's their income. Oh, I make extra amount of dollars. Oh, I make Gex amount of dollars. Or are some of the companies worth 100 million? No, he's pretty honest. No, it's not, bro. You know, it's not worth that much, but he was really honest. Everything too to talk about is bankruptcy

and where he was and he shares, you know, the peak of it financially, the bottom of it financially, what's recently gained control of his company. Yeah, so that was really interesting and fun for me to talk to him about that. I really enjoyed that part of the conversation was really interesting and fun for me to talk to him about that. I really enjoyed that part of the conversation. Yeah, I was really cool to talk to him about all the,

just how the business works and how he grew it and all the challenges. And then of course we got into his bodybuilding career. Kaspari was the bodybuilder that brought shredded conditioning to the stage. He was the first guy to have shredded glutes, which was a big deal back then. He's why bodybuilders now are as shredded as they are.

He kind of brought that look. And you know, it's funny, we went off air, we started talking some more. And he said he was one of the first guys to do a gluten-free diet. And he did a gluten-free diet back in the 80s because he understood that it helped his body drop water, which I thought was fascinating.

Which is, I can't believe he didn't bring that up and he did the interview because you brought up the fact that he was the first one to have the conditioning that he did, I'm sure that played a huge part of it. Sure, sure, absolutely. Absolutely, so his website isn't up and fully functioning yet, but he's gonna have it up and it's gonna have new products on it and that's cospiring nutrition.

Of course, they were the makers of Super Pump 250, which was one of the popular pre workouts back in the day. His Instagram page is Rich Gaspari, G-A-S-P-A-R-I. He's gonna be at Sean Ray's bodybuilding show in Hawaii. And I do wanna plug that. That's in November 10th. You can go if you wanna check that out. Or maybe next year, a little bit us.th, you can go if you want to check that out. Or maybe next year, a little bit us.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're gonna put that out there. If you want to check that out, that's at sr-hawaii-classic.com, Sean raised a good friend of ours. Now in addition to that, man, I'm excited that Taylor, what he's got going on this week, we have Friday, so what two days, Doug, was it?

It's a day's Wednesday, right? I'm gonna be with fucking Davis. So two days from now on Friday, uh, this this is probably my favorite giveaway that we've done yet that we're doing on Instagram. So if you go to the My Input media page, you could check out the skinny dipped giveaway that we're doing right now. Oh, yeah. Hookin' a favorite snacky snack. Yeah, big hook up. Go check it out on Friday and see what that looks like. And also, it's the final hours. If you're lucky enough to listen to this episode

right when we drop it, you only have a few hours left for our biggest promotion of the year. This is it. Maps aesthetic 50% off. Just go to mapsblack.com, use the code black50blaCK and the number 50 no space for 50 percent off. It ends at midnight tonight on Halloween. Okay, so if this is after Halloween, we're sorry you missed the promotion. If you're listening to this one, it came out. It's good for you. You still get 50 percent off. Again, it's

at mapsblack.com, use the code black50 50 so without any further ado. Here we are interviewing the legend the bodybuilding legend and the supplement marketing legend Rich Kaspari You go to the LA FedEx, we have we spoke at a last year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, so we're gonna be there. Okay, good deal I'm getting a we need to go. Yeah, we. Yeah, we need to go down there. We got enough more connections. Yeah, doing boost down there. It's actually a nice, it's been a nice show. It's a pretty good one. I was at show my age. I was at the first LA Fittex, but that started in Argentina. Really? So you've seen

the evolution. I saw the evolution was a very small intense. And now it's at the LA, LA convention center, which is crazy. So it's crazy to LA convention center, which is crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy to me. I remember the first time I went to one just in the last 10 years compared to now. It's just ridiculous. What blew my mind was probably about, I think it was right when I was competing.

So five years ago, I went out to Olympia, and I went out there. What I was surprised at, and I'm sure you remember watching this transition, was the celebrities that had lines that weren't bodybuilders anymore. Were these Instagram kids? Instagram, so yeah, man, you saw fucking line. I'm like, what? Where the rich kids are?

And then you have. Huge poster. Yeah, and then you have the famous bodybuilder that you could be five feet tall. Yeah, you would see Jay color and he'd be like five people in front of his booth. You know, and that was right after it wasn't that long after he had he had retired and I'm like, wow, man, this is crazy. Yeah, that's a yeah. Now, Rich, you, this is pretty special for me because, you know, I've been reading about you for decades. I mean,

when I first started working out, it was in the 90s, so your body building career kind of had ended before that point a little bit. Right, right into 92, I competed right into 1996, and then I got an injury. I herniated a disc in my neck, which totally caused my right arm to be paralyzed. I was getting ready for like coming back, competing against guys like Dorian Yates.

Where? Actually, I went past Dorian Yates. I came, I made a comeback where it was, you know, Ronnie Coleman and Flex Wheeler. So they were back into the mid to late 90s. I was coming into the bodybuilding to get into like 2000. But then the injury just totally curtailed me and I was bedridden and while I was bedridden,

that's where I sat there and I said, I got to do something for a living, I can't use my body anymore. So I just basically started the brand, so it's an often idea. Well, let's go back to the very beginning. Now, when you were competing in the 80s, when you were at your, I guess at your peak, or your competitive peak, you were the guy that pushed Leigh Haney. You were one of the best bodybuilders in the world at the time, and you were known for insane conditioning, great posing. I think you're known as one of the first bodybuilders that have strided glutes on stage if I'm not...

So, as a poster, yeah. I brought conditioning to another level into the sport. As you said, I was very young when I turned pro. I was 19 years old, one of the youngest pros. I was 13 years old when I first picked up a weight and had an interest in bodybuilding. One of my good friends, school friends, and I was like 11 or 12. I went to his basement and he had all these muscle builder magazines and I saw these magazines of Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lou Fregno, Franco Colombo, Robbie Robinson. And I saw these and I did look like superheroes.

I said, wow, I can't believe guys can have this muscle. I wanna do this. So this kid that I would play baseball with, I would basically wanna go in his basement and read these magazines. So after a while, I figured out to start going into the gym and training at 13. It just became a lifetime thing for me. It's, I've been training my whole life.

I'm in my 50s now, turning pro at 19, where he's one of the youngest. At the time, I moved to California when I was 19. I met Lee Haney. I don't know if you know, winning, I moved to California. When I was 19, I met Lee Haney, I don't know if you know, he was my training partner. Oh, I didn't know. I won the Junior Nationals. It was then in New Jersey. I went into the Nationals that year

and when I went into the Nationals, a guy from Gold's Gym, Ed Connors, who owned Gold's Gym, basically saw me and said, why don't you move out to California and get to live in the valley you can own this, you know, have a part on of this gym in Reseeda, this Gold Gym in Reseeda. For me it was a great opportunity.

I was going to college at the time, Rutgers University, I was a pre-med student. I was still into training. So what I basically did, as I told my parents, I said, listen, I'm gonna take a leave of absence, I'm gonna move to California and pursue my dream to be a bodybuilder. Now, they thought I was nuts. I basically, you know, I quit school to move to California.

And when I lived there for the year, you know, I was just this crazy, you know, kid, you know, like I said, it was very young when Lehanie saw there for the year, I was just this crazy kid. Like I said, it was very young. When Leigh Haney saw me in the gym, he saw me squatting close to 800 pounds at a 525 bench, but I had this insane training to the... You were known for it. Yeah.

You were known for being a maniac. Just me and there's guys like Tom Platz and Dorian Yates and certain athletes that they trained to this next level. That was me. I always have to train with the blood vessels popping in my eyes when I trained in a gym. So Lehani saw me and he said, hey, kid, would you like to train with me?

So I was a very, when I moved to California, I was very bulky because I figured I had to get bulky and then lose the body weight. So, but I would see a lot of the pros that were in better condition off season. They weren't ripped, but they were in good condition. So, Lehani was always calling me like fat boy. He kept calling me like, no fat boy, you can't be this heavy. You're like 250 and you're competed at 200 pounds.

You gave too much weight. So, I took his advice and started leaning out off season and then honing in on to let my body become more symmetrical. So at the time, I won the junior nationals, I had really huge legs. I had no shoulder width, kind of a squatty waist because I had like big or obliques because I would lift so heavy.

So I had to change my training principles, stop training legs, concentrate more on my upper body, my shoulders and my arms and my back. Make my waist get smaller so that I can cause an illusion that myself look more symmetrical, even if I was the same body weight. So Lehanie and I trained together. That year he won his first Mr. Olympia, I won the Nationals in Mr. Universe.

And that turned me pro. Back then it was much harder to turn pro. I don't know if you know this. So go 10 years and never be pro. Yeah, you've got guys like Rory Littemeyer and Matt Mendenhof, you know those guys who are from the past in the 80s. They were a great body, those never turn pro.

Because you only had five pros in the entire world who turned pro per year. You had to go from the past in the 80s, they were great bodybuilders, never term pro, because you only had five pros in the entire world who termed pro per year. You had to go from the nationals and then go into the Mr. Universe. You had to win that Mr. Universe, the term pro. If you didn't win Mr. Universe, you had to start back and win the nationals again. So a lot of bodybuilders just couldn't do it.

Matt Mendenhall came second, second, Rory Littlemyr, another great bodybuilder never did it. So today, I hate to say this, they give out, you know, pro cards very easily. Not that the guys are not great, but there's a lot of, you know, pro cards that are given to anyone in any country, you know, once you become, say, Mr. Sweet and you term pro, where Mr. Sweet and you have to go against all the other people Mr. America, and then that's how you turn pro. So it was much different. And I believe then, because you only had four pros

or five pros a year, they were looked on more and you had the magazines looking at these guys today. If you asked me who won the nationals or who won the Mr. University, I couldn't tell you. Now, are you applying the knowledge that you were obtaining in your pre-med, were you using this? I had a minor in nutrition,

so I definitely believed that to enhance the body. I believe like 75% of getting in shape was nutrition. Back then, I did believe in supplementation, but there wasn't much supplements back then. When I was training, there was desiccated liver, there were these horrible protein pills. I remember those. The way protein was probably 30%, so the quality was very low, but I still used products. Creatine just came about, so I started using those supplements.

But I believed, like branch chains, they were something that I used way back 30 years ago. And today it's still, you know, an integral part of the supplement industry using, you know, branch chain amino acids. So I believe that to get to a next level, I would have to supplement, you know, with, you know, you know, vitamins, branch chains,

Crete, and these type of supplements. Now, in bodybuilding, what I always find fascinating is there's always, you see a certain level of competition through the decades, and then all of a sudden, there's like a next level, and everybody has to meet that next level. A classic example would be, you know, Doreigniates, for example, brought mass

to a whole different level. Now, Lee Haney, to an extent, did that, Doreen Yates, for example, brought mass to a whole different level. Now, Lee Haney, to an extent, did that as well in the 80s, but really, in my opinion, the 80s, the difference between the 80s and the 70s was the conditioning. Just a whole different level of conditioning. You didn't see, you know, bodybuilders in the 70s were pretty lean, but if you look at a picture of Arnold, you know, winning in 1974 or five or whatever,

he wouldn't be lean enough to win a local show today. You look at a picture of Arnold winning in 1974 or five or whatever. He wouldn't be lean enough to win a local show today. The guys in the 80s, all of a sudden got shredded and you were known for being one of the guys. I talked about that. The first guy was strided glutes. Nobody knew what the hell that was until you hit the stage. What was it that you did that brought that to that level?

Well, I was competing against a genetic freak, you know, Leigh Haney. So looking at someone like him, I said, how can I beat this guy? I can't beat him on size. I have the beat him on conditioning. Fortunately, I had great genetics that I would lean out very, you know, very easily. So a lot of guys back then thought I was taking only, like, bizarre drugs and to get lean, but it was just hard dieting that got me lean. So it was actually by accident.

If you look at the classic bodybuilders today, you notice that they wear these shorts that are way past their butt. But the trunks that you used to wear in the 70s, that Arnold War, you didn't show any glutes. It was basically these, yeah, these long cut, I don't know, I hate you. It's like a speedo, but it goes around your glutes. Yeah, but so I looked at it and I started getting myself in conditioning. Once I turned pro, Lehanie and I then became rivals.

I moved back to the East Coast. I started preparing myself as a pro. And when I was getting ready as a pro, we had a posing room and I started posing. I noticed that I started getting leaner and leaner on how I died. And a lot of it had to do with education on dieting. A lot of guys followed a low carb diet to get in shape.

I found much easier that if I had more of macronutrients where my carb levels, my complex carbs and my proteins were pretty much the same levels. I guess where I didn't like going to this totally ketosis. So I would keep my muscle and basically fluctuate my calories as I went down in you know body weight to get leaner. Anyways, I started noticing, you know, that my glutes were getting leaner and leaner and leaner, but the trunks that were then, you know,

sold to bodybuilders really didn't display it. So, I was the first bodybuilder to basically take my trunks, cut them where you can see the glute muscle. All the trunks today were based off me, you know, for what I did in the sport. I had a, that was another contribution because glutes then became... So are you the first guy to do the give himself a wedgie up on stage? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I had the trunks where I had to use... I had to use glue to keep my trunks from going up into my ass. So I asked crack. So, you know, but I wanted to be able to show those striaty glutes that other bodybuilders didn't have. And that was my advantage when I did this back pose. Back then, you know, you have to have a Christmas tree. Now you have to have a Christmas tree. And you have to have striaty glutes to be in shape

in a show. So that's something, like you said, I contributed to the sport and brought bodybuilding to a home other level in the conditioning category. And those whole eighties from the mid into the late 80s into the 90s, it was all about conditioning. Although Lehani was winning, everyone was basing how they looked and the shows were all based on my conditioning.

So that's something. What was the response to that when you first did that where people like, what the hell's going on? Well, the first time I went on stage and it showed in the pro-Mr. World in Columbus, Ohio, as the first time I was able to get myself full, I was about 216 back then, that was big, you know, a five foot eight, but totally in crisp shredded conditioning.

And when they saw this, they just never saw anything where someone was in that type of conditioning, where you saw striations everywhere in your body, you know, from my legs to my glutes to my, my abs, you know, you didn't see a spot of fat. I remember listening to the commentator. It was a Christopherson and Christopherson. This is like the next level in anybody in, you know, conditioning. And you know, although he was kind of downplaying me saying that I wasn't the most symmetrical bodybuilder, the conditioning that I displayed on stage

was so awestruck to the public, they had to give it to me. So I was winning every show at that time. I was, they called me the Mr. Second Place because I can win every pro show. I beat guys like LilaBrada, Barry DeMay, who's the other guy. A lot of different guys that I was able to beat, but I just when I got to the Mr. Olympia level and I had to go against Lee Haney, he just always, you know, just because of his mass and size.

And he had, you know, his hip structure was smaller than mine. So he just had a better physique. He was wide as hell. Crazy, it was a crazy era of bodybuilding. So you had talked about earlier how you had herniated a disc and had to stop your comeback. Let's bring it back to that. So what happened?

You were doing a comeback, you hurt yourself. How did that all happen? Well, remember I told you, I started competing, you know, I turned pro 19 and from then, for that point, every year I was competing, competing, competing, competing in multiple shows that I was very competitive right from like 84 into 91, 92 and then I just started burning out and burning out as a bodybuilder, I just started placing lower. Even though I was training hard, dieting, doing everything proper, my body just wouldn't respond. Then I just started placing lower and lower and lower and lower.

So I took a couple of years off, came back in 95. And when I came back, I tried to make a comeback and in some of the shows I competed in, Doryne was almost, was already done and then this new breed of bodybuilders now it was ripped and big was like the Ronnie Coleman era. He had both, Freakish. He had both that rip conditioning and mass.

So the first show as I competed in where against him Where they had this rivalry with flex Wheeler, right? You know, then was trying to beat Doreen But now he's trying to beat he was supposed to be destined to become Mr. Limpi But he never expected this Ronnie Coleman to come out. I came in You know, I placed this highest fifth in the in the pro show. It was coming back I know, I placed this highest fifth in the pro show. It was coming back, but I was just to a point that I just felt that it just wasn't in me anymore. All that hunger.

How old has that put you at? How old would you be? I was like 30, very young. It was like, I was already like burnt out at 31, 32. It was like 33 years old when I got the injury. Yeah, but that's 10 years of competitive bodybuilding. Yes. Training the way you did. Yes, and I just, everyone said I didn't have the genetics

to be a top bodybuilder, but what I did have was the mental fortitude. I can train harder than anybody. I can push my body to the limit harder than anybody. And of course, there's problems with it. There's repercussions. I started getting degenerative discs in my back, started having injuries.

So that's where I think you started seeing this change where I couldn't get myself to look as good, I couldn't get myself as conditioned like in my back region because when you start screwing with your discs, the nerves that go to those pathways, the nerves that go to those, the pathways, the nerves that go to those muscles that don't fire. So you actually start to atrophy. So I started seeing that happen.

So I made that comeback, went on stage, got as high as like fifth place. I was, I had a couple other shows that I went in that I was getting between sixth and fifth, and to me it was like not where Rich Kasparri, the Rich Kasparri was. Try again to go into a show back then, the New York Pro, which they call back then the night of the champions.

While preparing for that show, it was probably, I was one of the best shape of my life. It was like 230 ripped, trying to have the mass and the ripness that I had. Two weeks out from the show, I was doing shrugs and I just basically herniated the disc in my neck. It devastated me because my whole right size just got paralyzed.

I couldn't pick up a 10 pound dumbbell. That must've been scary. It was the worst feeling. I was in bed. I watched my body go from 230 to 185 pounds because I couldn't train at all. The pain was so excruciating. Back then, excuse me, back then I should have had surgery,

but I didn't opt for the surgery because you have to go through your, the front part of your neck to get to the disc, to cut the disc. And I never did it and I still have residue, you know, injuries from that, where I have atrophy and my bicep and tricep from that injury. So, but like you said, there's always a silver lining.

I was laying in bed saying, what am I gonna do? Well, my body was atrophying. Skid here and skid here. And I just said, I'm going to start a supplement line. It just came out of the top of my head. I said, I'm going to just do this and people are like, you're crazy. I don't know anything about supplements. I said, well, I take them. I believe in them. I believe that they make a great difference. So I started going to a lot of the manufacturers and looking for a brand, a product, products that I can sell in my brand.

Now Rich, what was the major competition back then? Like what were your big contests? When I got into it, I don't know if you know, actually Lila Brata was before me, he started lean body. So I saw what he did and, you know. And he did pretty well. Well, he was a little luckier. He actually got a contract

that he got a percentage of the metrics sales. All right. So what happened with him is I forgot what he got, but he got a nice percentage instead of getting paid. So this was like a startup company, but then metrics became huge. His percentage was so big that he was paid in the millions to get him out of the company.

Oh wow. So he took that money and then started, you know, Lee LeBron is, you know, the lean body. Yeah, metrics was big back then. You had metrics, you had weeder, cyber-genics. Cyber-genics, metric, who else? When I saw the ABB, I remember this.

ABB was. American bodybuilding was just a gym. Yeah, now here's the thing that, and this is the part that I really want to talk to you about, because it's great of a bodybuilder's you were and as much as you changed the sport of bodybuilding, I think your brilliance is in the supplement industry, especially marketing.

You, in my opinion, you single handedly created the pre-workout the pre-workout market for supplements. I remember reading the magazines, seeing these ads for... Super pumped. Yeah, I was super pumped, 250. And I remember thinking it was brilliant. It had a picture of, and I talked about this on a show

several times, there's a picture of guys before and after the workout, which, you know, they're pumped. It's gonna look amazing. Of course, it's gonna look amazing. But the thing that you tapped into, and I don't think you were the first pre workout, I think ultimate orange was one, but they didn't really market it that way You were the first supplement to market it give you a better pump and of course it came from the mind of a bodybuilder because

Everybody loves a fucking pump and it ritualizes supplements. Where did you come up with that idea? Well, I can't say that I totally came up with the idea if you know this cyber genics was down the street from where where I was and cyber genics was no longer in existence. Yeah, what happened? They're done, right? Yeah, he sold off the company. They started the the brother started cytodine. It was another company that we could talk about that was around. But he was famous for his before and afters. So I remember those ads and saying, wow, look at the difference between this guy. I bought super cyber genics long time ago because of those before and after. You know, he's team different pills. Yeah, you know, you had these, these kits that you

would take and these kits you could show the before and the after. But I wanted to show something different, you know, he showed like one month or three months time. I said, I want to show it right after your workout. If you could do something even more like drastic to show someone before and after what it could do. Sprillian. Yeah, so brilliant. Because people want instantaneous results. Right.

That's about anything. Everyone wants that magic pill. So this was the magic powder. If you can show this result that someone's going to go from, you know, looking flat to being even to this extreme pump and you can show it in a picture. People like, wow, look at this shit. This is a shit that works. So that's what made super pump 250 and the name super pump.

Now, at what point did you know you hit a home run? Because obviously, I mean, everybody goes into creating something in and hoping that it takes off like that, but when did you just know that it was holy shit? We did something great. Well, like that, but when did you just know that it was holy shit, we did something great? Well, the sales, but that was perfect. So I mean, like, had to take off right away as soon as it... No, I mean, we started the ads, and I got to tell you, back then, the product tasted like ass.

It was, we had to really try to flavor the product, and it was just the first batches it came out. It was, we started with an orange flavor because of the ultimate orange, but it tasted horrible. But you really felt the product. When you used it, you really felt the product. Then as we went, we started improving the flavoring

and started coming up with new flavors. Back then, the marketing was through the magazines. So we used those forums. I started getting some sales from that product and I just kept dumping it back into the marketing and putting it in various magazines those before and after. I started working with distributors like Europa, back then, Bob O'Leary, and it just the product started selling. A huge sampling program that a lot of companies use today, we started giving away those samples to a lot of the stores. They just go, here's the samples, here's the sample.

That must have crushed for you guys. That's what did it. Back then, people didn't even do this ample sampling program, but we did an ample sampling program that any account that bought 12 bottles got 50 samples. As soon as you did that, those bottles sold. Well, see, this is brilliant because supplements, I mean, there's been samples

in the past. You could try something out, but the problem with sampling supplements is many supplements. It takes a while to feel like, oh, we're going to sample protein. You're basically just sampling the taste with us with the pre workout, which it's got stimulants in it. You take that, you feel it. You feel it right away. So this, it's perfect. It was absolutely perfect for that supplement. Well, that's the thing. When you do a sampling program, it has to be something that has an instantaneous result. You can sample proteins and of course,

that's another, that's a whole other segue that I got into my fusion. They thought that I could never go into the protein market and take a chunk of that. I did that with my fusion. I could talk about that. But with super pump, what we basically did is have something that can show instant gratification. That stimulant feeling when

you go into the gym that you want to train, that pump that you felt using that product and just ample samples that went out there and that just caused this organic effect of the sales growing. Back then I was competing against BSends at NO Explode. It was me and it was me and NO explode. So then he had these. I didn't realize they went that far back. Yeah, well, I think you were probably first, right? No, they were, it was right at the same time.

Was it really okay? It was like right at the same time. So I was the blue bottles. They were the red. Right, right. I got to commend them too, because they were great marketers and what they were doing with NO explode.

And I started noticing they had these walls of red in these stores where they would sell and say if you buy a certain quantity, we're going to fill the wall and you get all these goodies as a store. So I'd go into the store and say, okay, the red walls, okay, I'm blue. I said, I'm going to have waves of blue. I said, waves knocked down walls. So I go into the store and I said, I want that red wall, and I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna buy it off, and I'm gonna put it with Gospari products.

So I would basically do that, and just buy off the red bottles and replace them and give away the red bottles and have the Gospari products. And every big store that I knew he was in, I go after those stores. Oh, no you over the stores. Any beef ever have? How he hated me. Oh, really? Actually, there was a point where Scott James basically said

that any employees would talk to me would get immediately fired. Oh. So we're friends now, but at that time, he didn't like me very much. Because I was, it was this, see, I was a competitor, being a competitive bodybuilder going against the greatest bodybuilders, like Lee Haney, I couldn't beat him because of his genetics,

but this was business now. Business, you don't have to go with genetics, you have to go with using your brain. So this is how I was able to say, you know what, I'm competitive, he doesn't realize how competitive I am. I'm gonna show that I'll do everything in anything to be able to beat this guy and beat BSN.

And I have to say, they were at the time it was one and two is one of the biggest pre workouts. Then he had a problem with one of the ingredients. I can't remember a recall, one of the ingredients, but he had a recall to have to pull that out. So when he did this, open up the gates. The products were off the shelf.

And that's when I just came in and just had to sparrere everywhere. Asso is. Now was it a hit right out the gates where you're in bed, you're injured, you're like, shit, I gotta do something. You start the supplement company. Was it a bit of a grind at first or was it? It was a big grind.

I started, you know, like I told you, I don't know if I told you, I started where as a pro body builder, I had a contract, I was making, you know, money as a pro bodybuilder, I had a contract. I was making money as a pro bodybuilder. I had a gym, but back then the gym wasn't doing very well because there was a lot of competition. I wasn't making money, so at that time, I had to decide for myself, what am I gonna do?

I'm not making money as a bodybuilder anymore. I basically sold off everything. I actually went into personal bankruptcy, moved back to my parents' house and started despairing nutrition in the basement. Oh, I don't know that. Yeah, so I started this business in the basement. Their garage was my warehouse.

And back then, both my parents were ill. My mother had Parkinson's disease. My dad was sick and then got cancer and died. So I got to spend time with them when I started my company. You know, so I started working in there and it was a grind. I had a lot of moments where I said I was just gonna give up and go do something else. I was gonna, I had a girlfriend,

I was trying to push me to sell life insurance. And that's another story. I went out and got my insurance license. I went out, sold my first policy. I went back and I said, I have good news and bad news. I sold my first policy and I quit. Because I can't do this. I can't wear a suit.

I go toward a door to try to sell insurance. I'm gonna pursue my say damn. I can't wear a suit. Hey, go tour the door to try to sell insurance. I'm gonna pursue my dream and doing this. If it kills me, because I was said, if I throw enough shit against the wall, eventually it's gonna stick. And at the time, I was struggling. I said, I was really not doing much. Online business was just kind of starting.

We had some websites. What helped me a lot back then was the pro hormones that were being sold. Yeah, let's talk about that for a second because I remember you, back in those days, you had pro hormones or designer steroids or whatever you want to call them, they were legal. It was like a gray market and you guys had a halodrol.

I think it was halodrol, was your... We had products way before that. Halodrol was the big head, but before halodrawl. I think it was halodrawl was your... Well, we had products way before that. Halodrawl was the big head, but before halodrawl, when I started my mom's basement, was 1T. You know, 1T. Oh, that was legit, by the way. This is a legit, like, this shit actually. Yes, so we started selling one.

I found out through reading online about this product called 1T, I said, shoot, I gotta get a hold of this stuff. I found that a guy who supplied the raw materials is then I was struggling, I was trying to sell proteins. I started with universal supplements that started making my stuff. In my basement, I was going around gym to gym, selling, creatine, protein.

I had a couple like multivitamins that were there multivitamins with my label on it. I was like, this ain't making money quick enough, I got to do something. I had these protein drinks called quick meals and they were proteins, you know, they had water into them and you know, just meals on the run, they were doing okay. But like I said, what was a big hit is I started reading about these prohormones and I said, what was a big hit is I started reading about these pro hormones and I said shoot, I gotta see if I could sell these things. I started investigating it.

I was able to buy the raw materials, get a manufacturer to bottle them. One T was the first one. Started selling it and it just took off. Of course. Because it was my name attached to it. Rich Gosparrot is pro X proPro bodybuilder selling this one tea. I went from doing sales, I told you the first,

the first year I started Gosparratt nutrition, my sales were about $30,000 for the whole year. The second year, I think we did about 80 grand. Okay. Then when I started selling one tea, I did my first million. Oh, yeah. It's been a while, 30 million. It's been a year. One million. Yeah, one million, I did my first million. Oh, yeah. It's been a while, right? You're a man, man.

One million. Yeah, one million, so. Wow. Because we started getting business and calls from all over to Celis, domestically throughout the whole country. We started selling to Europa. And the way I got that account again, when I first went to those,

I went to see Eric Helman who owns Europa, and he was a judge, and I was judging shows, and I sat there, hey, Eric, will you take my brand? He goes, well, you're not ready to take my, to have us as a distributor, because you're not gonna be able to keep up with the demand, and how you're gonna pay for this. We want 30 day terms.

So I asked my brother for a loan, for the first order, which they ordered, like 30 grand, 40 grand, I got the money for my brother so that I can manufacture, then give it to them and give them the terms, but it just took off. I was able to start selling, you know, through Europa, who's kind of the first distributor as well, and we just started growing from there.

How did you pick the pro hormones that you ended up picking? Why did you pick one T the the pro hormones that you that you ended up picking? Why did you pick one T and then what eventually brought you to Halladraw? Which was your big hit? Well, I found a guy Basically that was selling off the name of the coming was Kilo sports I'm not sure whether it's still in business. They were selling raw materials that people could then make their own You know pills or concoctions that you know would get capsules site. I started getting him to supply me with raw materials that people could then make their own, you know, pills or concoctions that, you know, we get capsule site. I started getting him to supply me with raw materials.

He's the one who started tell me, hey, here's a product called 1T. Then there was another one that we made was the Novitex XT. That's right. Was the anti-romatex product. That's right. ATD. Which, and by the way, these are, for example, bulls.

These are all legal now, right? I was gonna say one of the legalities back then, like how did you get through all that? Well, Dechet was enforced. And so a lot of the, I was falling suit to a lot of what other people were doing. And it was kind of like a gray market as long as it wasn't sold as a steroid or prescribed steroid. And it was never on the market. These designer steroids were basically steroids that were invented, but never made it to market.

So that's what they were doing. They were going through looking at all these. Annabalics that companies never use. They never used them. Yeah, because like one test toss from one T, for example. I mean, when you people who've used that will tell you, it's like you're taking D ball. I mean, it really gives you, these are actual steroids.

So of course they, they- So when I started selling this one T, the next product that I saw that someone was getting great success was the methylated one T, which was even stronger. So I- Last long in the liver. Yeah, so it wasn't a great product because of the liver Toxicity if you take too much of it, but we started selling that

now for me I knew this was a short short-lived business and I talked to Europa say what's you know what's your plan? You're selling these pro hormones These are not gonna last long. What are you gonna do? That's when I started thinking about what else can I sell, and that's when we came up with the pre-workout. Basically, Super Pump 250 was a product shelfed by Metrix. Oh, really?

It was a pre-workout that they had. They shelfed it because they thought it was too expensive to make, because it had a lot of high-end ingredients back then. So the manufacturer offered it to me and say, I got this really cool pre-workout, would you be interested in selling it? We were gonna give it to somebody else. What's the guy with the really big arms that he advertised them?

He's the one who puts all the synths all in it. Rich, be on it. No, not him before, Rich. Greg, Greg, Greg. Greg Valentino. Greg Valentino. They were gonna give it. Rich, be on it. No, not him before. Rich, Greg, Greg, Greg, Greg, Valentine, Greg Valentino. They were gonna give it to him, but they saw that I was this successful business guy, because they said, you know, it's so, you know, so it gives you such a pump that your arms blow up.

That's what it did. This guy was known for his arms, you know, his arms blew up because he had too much. I hear it put up in the oil. So they offered me this product and I said, let me go with it. And that was the first non-steroidal pro hormone that we started selling. And that's when I started looking at other products.

Like I came up with the first intra-workout with Saison. Saison was another product that we came out with that I had creatine but it had a hydrolyzed protein, it had carbohydrates, so that you had this product to take while you were training, you know, to increase glycogen, you know, in your muscle. Also, brilliant idea. Well, I mean, all of it's brilliant,

because you're ritualizing supplements. I mean, people, when people work out, they work out. If you can time their supplements around their workout, I mean, it's just absolute brilliant marketing. So that's what we did. We have the pre-workout. We're going to have this intra-post workout. So it became super pump-size on.

And then the product that you mentioned, I had a guy basically Bruce Neller that came to me with this halladrol, with the ingredient from halladrol. Now, that was actually one of the hormones that were close to resemblance to Turnable. That's right. Which was a very clean steroid that was used by the Eastern block Germany at the time.

It was supposed to be easier on the body. Easier on the liver. Hardening one, but it was just an amazing, great product. But what really set me over the top is an article that was in the Washington Post. So basically this woman, namely Shipley, basically saw that I was selling these hormones that were not really to share compliant and that were going to the public. So basically she made this awareness to the industry that I was selling this steroid.

So what were you made as an example in where you were? So it was made an example, but it actually backfired in her face. Oh, I was a kid. Yeah. So what happened was they wrote a page article, they said, you know, ex-probody bill or self steroids to the public This article was in the you know on the on the front page of the Washington Post now

That became one of the biggest advertising of course Every young boy is like, oh, yeah So at first I said shit. I got a stop selling this. I'm gonna get out of this market, but then my phone was just ringing off the hook, ringing off the hook. So I said, I wanna get out of this because you know, you have to be, he's gonna come after me, I should just get out of this.

Europe will offer me this huge PO that was in the millions. It was like an offer I couldn't refuse. Give it to us exclusively and you know we'll be alive. We'll buy five million dollars with the product from you. The PO and I was in a very high margin back then. I don't know if you know pro hormones you can make a hundred percent margin. Oh my god. I didn't know that. Yes. So the harm the margins were through the roof. I did the first run. I said listen listen, I'm gonna give you one run and that's it, and then I'm gonna get out of it. But they came back to me with another peop, like another 8 million, and I said, okay,

we'll make another one. One more time, one more time, yeah. So we did two batches of that, and then honestly, he came back to me again, and I said, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm gonna get out of the pro hormone business. I want to focus on other products that I feel are beneficial. I wanted to get out of it totally, which I did and that's when I focused on the marketing

of Super Pump, Sison, our vitamins. I wanted to get into the protein market because I saw proteins in other market. You couldn't sell a brand globally without a protein. But at the time, it was very hard to get into the protein market because the company's like optimum had the advantage of selling their proteins. But when I tasted these proteins,

they tasted like dirty water. You were drinking protein like a chocolate. I was drinking and I said, it's taste horrible because me as a bodybuilder, I didn't care what I drank. It could taste like battery acid and I would use it. But I said to get more people accepting these supplements, they got a taste good.

So what I did is I looked at the protein market, a manufacturer came to me and they said, like, it's not only the taste, it's the mouth feel. When you drink a protein, you wanna have, you wanna have this milky consistency. And you don't wanna have it just, you know, feel like it's just like drinking water. Metrics did it somewhat with their gum,

but it was too much. It was almost like, when you did a Metrics, it was like drinking paste. It's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. It's like, yeah, I'm so excited. It's like, yeah, I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm gonna do the cake batter.

So I thought that was too much. So I said, it's like cake batter. It's like, yeah, it's like, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. It's like cake batter. It's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter.

Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter.

Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it's like cake batter. Yeah, it ingredients from chymura, added it to the protein, to give it more of a mouth feel that it felt more like a milk, like a chocolate milk. And when I did that with a really good flavor system, my fusion just like, again, took off. I mean, you know, we talk about super pump being a big head, but my fusion was probably one of

the biggest proteins that I sold at the time we were doing close to a quarter of a million cans of, you know, five pounders a month. A monthly count? Yeah, selling them globally. Wow. And throughout the world, there was one time

there was containers going to Australian New Zealand, Europe, South America. It was just a huge, a Middle East, the protein just took off. And that's where it brought the company to another level with selling proteins, because everybody bought proteins. Margians were smaller. Our margins then, I was telling you,

performance were 100%, pre-workouts were 60%, proteins were 30 to 40%. So I went from this high margin and then selling protein at a much lower margin. So it became more difficult to manage money because then you're trying to buy excess materials to make protein, but now you're making much smaller margins.

So what was the scaling process like for you as far as staffing? I can't imagine you're running this monster by yourself still. I mean you where no, where did you have to start bringing people on and like what was the smallest you were at and what's the most amount of people You've had working for you. The smallest was just me working out of my mom's, you know, right? Right. Um, I started doing well with the pro hormones and I still hadn't started the super pump. So with these pro hormones, I moved, I was able to move away and then what I did

is I got a small place. So with a small place, I had somebody basically answering the phone. So at that time, when I did like a million, we had two people in my girlfriend. So that was it. So from when we got into selling that super pump, then I had five people. When I started getting to selling the proteins, then I had to move into

a warehouse, get a warehouse, get warehouse workers, then I had like 20, you know, warehouse workers at a 60,000 square foot facility. Then the most I had was around 50 employees. Okay. So it went from one to, you know, to 50, you know, working. So what has it been like for you to have started something that far back and then to watch how much we kind of talked a little bit about this off-air, how much marketing has changed? I mean, you were a part of like the magazine era, which is pretty much almost deadness, right? And so what has that been like for you as far as writing that wave?

I mean, did you peak at a certain point, like maybe in the 90s or 2000s, and have you seen a dip, and then what's business been like now? Well, it didn't start going down. I mean, we were still doing close to 100 million in 2008, 2009 as a company. We started seeing the change, then a person who was happy to me, I went through a divorce, which was catastrophic to me, both mentally, personally, about 2000, when you talked about

when did the change happen? Yeah. It was about 2011, 2012. And you were seeing it in the business and then you also got home like and I had what was going on. So I would have been more prepared if I didn't have to go through this divorce, but because I was going through the divorce, I wasn't paying attention to the market shift. That market started shifting more towards online marketing, more towards social media, and

it just started progressing, but I was still saying behind the times with using the magazines, now these other companies started coming up, new companies started coming up and started surpassing, and I was just trying to figure out, I'm spending all this money and nothing's happening, and sales are actually dropping. So, and what happened was I kinda, because I wasn't paying attention to my business, I stepped back and had my employees that were working for me run the company, which is a huge mistake.

Never give your employees your checkbook. Even if there's CFO, you always have to have control of what's going on and what's going out of your business. And I thought that I could step away and let the business run and deal with my divorce, but that was a big mistake. And right into 2014, I went into business bankruptcy. Oh shit.

So you went from 100 million down. We were, you know, at the time, my sales dropped around 60 million, but at 60 million, with what we had to do to keep the sales, my margins dropped around 15%, which was nothing. So we were actually in the red selling over $60 million. Oh wow.

So my overhead costs and doing this business where I should have brought my overhead down, I should have been able to increase my margins by I was channeling everything through distribution. And when you do that, you have a middle man and that middle man then sells it to other players. And then what happened was they started selling to the online players.

Those online players then, because the brand was so popular, it was such a competition that the sales just dropped. You know, that the sales, the cost of them doing business or the cost of the product went down so much that it wasn't worth selling a Gisbury product. If you're making one or two dollars to make to buy the product, you're not going to sell the product. Right, right. And so that's when our sales started dropping. product, you're not going to sell the product. Right, right. And so that's when our sales started dropping. Wow, wow, wow. So at this point, you're going through your stepping back.

When do you step back in and take the reins and say, all right, let's make this. I got to say, for the last six years, I've been basically in prison. One of the things I had to do when you go into business bankruptcy, I don't know if you understand, you basically lose your business. You have to pay off your, you know, you're indebted to your creditors and people that you owe money to. So a lot of people have money to the manufacturers, the advertisers. You have to pay those people back. So when you go into, it wasn't total bankruptcy, it was a chapter 11, where it's restructuring means

that you negotiate with the people you own money to. It's like short selling a house. Yes, you give them like ten cents on the dollar, but what happened to me is the bank, you know, I made a deal with the bank, I owed the bank money. The bank put me into bankruptcy. So when they put me into business bankruptcy, your business goes on the auction block to sell. So at that time, I had a distributor from England, body temple. I was very close with them.

I said, if you can buy the company and I could still be in the company, I believe we can still keep this going. We need to make changes. You know, the way the market, the market shifted. I said all these things. They went to auction. Now, when you go to auction in bankruptcy, the highest bidder wins.

You can't have any preferences. Right. So even now I'm telling you, I want to discard a win. It's the highest bidder wins. You can't have any preferences. So even I'm telling you I want to discard a win, it's the highest bidder who gets the company. Well, they got to be the highest bidder by 100,000. We sold the company for 10.2 million. Well, they, we paid back the creditors, the 10.2 million, this company Allegro, body tempo bought the company. I ended up having to buy back into my company for 2.5 million and become a 30% shareholder of the company I created. Oh wow.

That had been humbling as fuck. It was horrible and I still believed in the brand and I believed that I was going to one day get back the brand and I didn't know how I was going to get back but I figured that I would get back the brand. Anyways, they took the brand, they had no idea what they were doing. They were a company that distributed fruits and vegetables so they had no idea about the supplement industry because I became a minority owner. They basically put me to the side, called me a failure, you know, and said we're going

to run the show now. You could just go. So they didn't take your input or anything? No, I didn't. I took my input and. How was that to watch what they were doing and not be able to say anything about? I saw what they were doing and I knew that it was gonna fail.

They didn't understand the business. They didn't understand, you know, I started doing this stuff like we talked about, you know, a sampling program and let's focus on direct to retail or let's get away from distributor. We were doing, I was trying to give them advice, but they just negated anything I said because these guys were from Europe,

they basically said, you know, you're a failure. We're gonna take over the business. You know, you're gonna stay to the side. Mine, you went into like two years, they saw that they were in the red. So I looked at it as an opportunity and I said, listen, you need to get out. They said, you can't tell us what to do.

You are a 30% owner and we're a 70% or I said, that my name's on this company and this is my company and I'm gonna get it back. So I was able to get someone else to buy into the company. And that was high tech, if you know those guys. I do. Jared.

Anyways, we, at the beginning, he basically said that I can run the business. This is your business. We're gonna be 50-50. He ended up not being truthful and being 50-50. And there'd be 49 49 51 with him being the majority shareholder. Just let's say that his business practices and my business practices were not the same.

You know, I'm a very passionate person believing in selling the best products to the market. I believe in what I sell. I'm not saying he doesn't, but we were not on the same page in what to sell to the public. He still was into selling hormonal products. And then, was it a high tech, didn't went to eat a bunch of lawsuits and stuff? Is that the same company?

Yes, that came afterwards. Okay, okay. So they did have to get into that. Oh, there's still like a Fedraub, after a Fedraub was kind of banned. He's still in a lawsuit with DMAA. Oh, DMAA, that's the other one. Which I wish him luck.

Like I said, I want to disparage it. We just didn't see eye to eye as pointers, like I wish him luck. He got it to like some criminal charges were put on him just recently because of the DMAA sales that he did. I then said, I need to like get out of this and figure out a way to get back my company. So he was going through all his legal issues. I said, this is probably the best opportunity for me to take the company back and go our separate ways clean. So what I had to do is basically take my money

that I had left over, get an investor, but this time with the investors, make sure that I'm the majority shareholder and I have a say because I witnessed how it was with two other. You learned that lesson? You learned that lesson. So I had to spend, and this is just recently

over this summer, I had to spend a lot of money on having a lawyer negotiate with high tech and Jared while I had the investors on the side supplying me the money. And as of August 9th, I was able to take back gaspiring nutrition. So now the companies in my hands and now we're making all these changes

for gaspiring nutrition. Well, so we caught you right in the middle of all this shit. I didn't even realize that. I had no idea. Yeah. Wow, so we caught you right in the middle of all this shit. I didn't even realize I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's crazy. So now that you're now that you're your full owner and you're looking at the market, which is now totally different than 2011 when you know, all that shit released first started going down. It's a completely different market now. What do you see? Yeah. Well, first I see many body, first it was me was mainly LaBron and now there's about 30 or 40 pro bodybuilders try to start you know brands and they see that it's very hard you see guys like

You know mr. Olympia Phil, you know Phil. He started a brand was it? I'm the nutrition that didn't go nowhere. I couldn't go nowhere A lot of pros a lot of guys who were turning pro started these companies. I seen that the market just basically everyone just, I think what happened was in 2008 when the economy dropped. The supplement industry still was a business where you know, you could still make money. So people looked at and said, wow, look at all this money being made by guys like Rich Gospari, like we're going to get into this industry.

And just, I just think because of social media, just people just got into this business. And there's so many small brands and there's so many more channels now to sell products. So for Gospari to survive, the new Gospari nutrition to survive, we can't go to the same marketing using magazines, of course, not going through distribution without having

strict controls, doing a model more that we're going to go direct to consumer, direct to retailer, making sure that you control the pricing. As I said, one of the demises of just, just by our nutrition was selling to websites that were just competing and then lowering the prices lower and lower and lower, and having enforced map agreements, minimum advertised price. Amazon right now is a curse and a blessing because what happened with Amazon now is if you sell to Amazon or you sell to a distributor, they'll sell to Amazon dealers. Like I found out, the distributor was selling to 64 non-authorized Amazon dealers. So when you have 64 guys selling, some of these guys are guys that are kids in their basement

just trying to get beer money. So they'll buy your product and make 50 cents or a profit real quick. And just flip it real, and then your price integrity goes away. So I knew that this newgas battery cannot have that. We have to have strict enforcement. We have to have strict, So I knew that this newk is married, cannot have that. We have to have strict enforcement.

We have to have strict selling to just certain channels and growing it healthy so that the brand can come back. The one thing that we have is we're a legacy brand with a well-known name. You guys know the name. It's just coming back. And IC is just being able to control the channels bring back innovation and then show the passion that I had

You know when I started the company and just shifted into marketing in today We have any new ideas you've been sort of brewing that you know you might want to highlight or is that something kind of you're keeping I'm trying to keep it to you know You know nothing is ever new like I told you when I did the before and after that was basically looking at cyber genics. I'm looking in a way a lot of other companies are running their businesses we talked about earlier, certain websites that use, you know, Google,

you know, they use these blogs, these blogs, the basically people to the site, once they get to the site to get followed with, you know, retarget marketing. So we're looking into that right now, we're re people to the site, once they get to the site, to get followed with, you know, retarget marketing. So we're looking into that right now. We're rebuilding the entire Gospari website to go more towards a format of direct to consumer.

We're trying to get viewers of up to a million people in the next 18 months, and that's by building these blogs. We have 25 blogs that are every month that are going into the website with various, what's the best protein, how to train biceps, all these different blogs that we're putting in there to get people to come to the site. Once they come to the site, they get hit with a cookie to get them with a banner. So we're using the principles of today's marketing that are there's a lot of successful companies out there.

What do you think us, yeah, I've heard a lot of rumors and I don't know this true. Maybe you have a better pulse on this. A lot of these supplement companies that we see all over Instagram that have put a facade on like they're a much bigger company than what they really are. Do you, do you see that or do you think there's a, do you think a lot of these supplement companies are all making 50 to a hundred million dollars a year's a, or do you think a lot of these sub-oomacumbas are all making $50 to $100 million a year? Like, I don't believe they're making that much. Some of these companies

are not even making a million dollars. I mean, but, but, but, as you said, they can have such a facade with what they can do on social media. They can look much bigger than they are. Right. So, you know, as a company, I said, even falling in my face, we're still over, you know, I could say my numbers were over $20 million as a company that fell on our face and still doing sales because we have channels in the international market that still keep the brand alive. I believe that Gazparic can be back into one of the biggest companies.

Not sure if we can get back to the 100 million, but I'm going to, you know, try as hard as I can to get to those numbers, but just building it right. It's not about the gross sale, it's about the net profit that you bring in. Of course. So, we're growing the company much differently. We talked about having all these employees. I don't have a warehouse anymore.

I use a 3PL, third party logistics company that does all my shipping. So use the shipping companies that know what they're doing and shipping properly. I've seen where that becomes an issue with my prior partner where shipping was a travesty because you're not a shipping expert. You shipping experts to ship your products. So we went that route, hiring the proper people that can market your brand to today's marketing. the proper people that can market your brand to today's marketing. You know, I'm in my 50s, so I have to learn very fast. You guys found me on Instagram. You know, I'm, you know, I go on Instagram to use that as a way to bring awareness to

who I am and what the brand is. Yeah. Do you see like any of the companies that are, I mean, we can talk about optonutrition, BSN, EAS. I mean, these are some of the bigutrition, BSN, EAS. I mean, these are some of the big staples that have been around for a long time, but the ZS is gone, by the way.

Oh, no shit. Yeah, EAS, basically the pharmaceutical company that own them and not that they were at a business, they basically, who's the company that owns them? I don't know, but I do know that it's a pharma company. It's a pharma company, and this pharma company makes so much money that making, you know, 75 million or whatever it makes.

I think it made more than that, but it wasn't enough money for them. So they just shut the doors. What? You're kidding me. At one point, they were like, because they were distributing at a Costco. Yes. Philips started that and then they got to become such a big company. But there's an example that many of these supplement companies get bought

out by these huge conglomerates, post-bought-out-demitized, Glambia-Bought-out Optimum. There's a few companies that are owned by just owners. The original owners that start the company, and you're seeing this shift of just because there's so much money in this industry that you have these small players and then you have some really big players. Yeah. And there's many, many small players that are dipping into the sales. Yeah. And then you have these huge players like Dematized and Optimal. Do you see anybody that in the last decade that impresses you? Do you are you paying attention to some of these brands that you're seeing on social media pop up?

Are there any of them that you go, like I like what they're doing, or I think they're on to something? Anybody you see? I mean, I commend a lot of the, my competitors that I see out there. We saw a brand and you said Legion. Legion, I was impressed.

I was impressed with their website. When I got back the company, I wanted to basically look at what other companies are doing that are successful and having someone that can look at the back end of, you know, that a website is doing well. You can see the traffic going to the site and see how well they're doing. So, Legion was one of the websites. One up is another company I've seen that's doing very well.

Online, direct to consumer. Right. I feel that I can be a different company where I can go for that online direct to consumer model but still get the retail stores. And because I'm known globally. Yeah, you're recognized. So, I'm recognized globally.

I have distribution throughout the entire world. So I don't just have the domestic market. I have the entire world that I can still grow that that's still 10 years behind the times. You know, that's one thing that you that I can tell you that when you deal with international sales, you basically have a time work going back in time. So anything you did 10 years ago works in these countries. Although, although you can't say that where social media has now also become global, these countries like Brazil, Australia, Europe, they all look at social media. So now instantaneously you can show what your company is doing off Instagram. I mean, I think even Facebook's a little for an older generation, so

YouTube, what you're doing here with podcasts, these are all the new way of advertising and it's seen instantly, globally, but they're still like the way products are marketed. It's not that they use magazine. Some of them still do you know, if you go to the UK, they still use magazines. You go into Brazil, there's they's not that they use magazine. Some of them still do. If you go to the UK, they still use magazines. You go into Brazil, they use magazines and stuff. So you can use some of the old ways of marketing, but still also use marketing where a lot of brands what they do is they use organic marketing using athletes or ambassadors that represent say Brazil. Sure.

So you have like 20, 30 athletes that are posting about expiring nutrition in Brazil, their language, the products, and we're doing that in every country. Yeah. Now you mentioned CBD earlier as something that you've already noticed. Have you noticed any like real big trends that you're like, oh, wow, maybe I'm a little late on that trend or maybe an emerging trend that you see out there now? Well, you did bring up CBD.

I see that's like a skyrocket. I mean, it's going to continue growing. You know, I, it still has some federal implications. I got to see if it becomes federally legal. I know it's certain states. It's like here in California, marijuana and CBD. There's no problems, even in New Jersey, but there are other states that you can't,

I believe you can go through state lines with CBD. Yeah, yeah. So you can do hemp oil, yes, but you can't say, you know, high CBD or CBD product. So I do have an interest in that. I mean, when you're saying about, you know, emerging market or something new, the problem is you have strict enforcement of dischievous.

So what I did 20 years ago in selling pro-hormos is a no-no today. I mean, you're shut down immediately. And you won't even sell that product. Like I told you when I did that article and you had everyone wanting to buy it today, if you're selling something remotely illegal, the consumer doesn't buy it anymore.

Isn't that funny? Yeah, they will not buy it. Back then it would be like, what, it killed a bodybuilder? I want that. Yeah, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it's a great, it Gaspari, they don't know who I am. So, you know, they are looking for more cleaner products. I noticed a trend more towards, you know, no artificial coloring. Health and wellness is now merged. It used to be, it used to, not that long ago, it used to be you had your hardcore supplements and the more they look like steroids, the better.

And literally, the marketers would put, make the bottles look like, it was like chemicals. And then you had your health supplements that hippies and yoga people bought. You're starting to see emerging now where everybody, they want that wellness health side, but they also like the hardcore.

So like a muscle builder also has to be natural, organic, or whatever. You're starting to see that a little bit. Are you seeing that? I'm definitely seeing that. I was on the Everett, the guy who was driving from the airport, where he was asking me about, what are you seeing?

And I say, well, for example, like branch chain amino acids, now there's these fermented vegan, which is much healthier, branch chains can be made from human hair. There's a process's a process to do that, so people don't definitely don't want to have that, so they want the fermented vegan version of it. The artificial colors, the red dye, the blue dye, all these things, you know, people are looking at and say, well, if that's going to hurt me, I don't want to use it. So you're right, this younger generation is more aware of health greens.

I didn't care about taking greens when I was a bodybuilder. Now you see people using greens, neutropics, very big category. I'm noticing, you know, neutropics are growing more and more and more the alpha, you know, alpha GPC, octopamine, these type of ingredients. I think a lot of the consumers,

if you go back, say, seven, eight years ago, it went from like super pumped and super pumped became not strong enough. So then you had to use... So then you had to throw it away. So basically they had this, you know, and I didn't believe in it, they had the concentrates, which was basically spritz of creatine and beta-alany, just enough to give you a pyrosthesia, but then a boatload of caffeine and DMAA. And that, you know, it happened to that.

That took over the market because it was much cheaper. And this stimulus just got stronger and stronger. Now, there is that market with high stimulants, but I believe more, the consumer is getting more educated to use a product that can help with focus, that can help with pump, that can help with recovery. So going to the gym and using a Neutropic, you know, with a small amount or a medium amount of caffeine of 200 migs instead of like 500 migs can get you in gym and you can get this

great focus and work out instead of your heart palipitating. So I see that trend, natural trend. As you said, products like greens are now being implemented into the sports nutrition. Proteins, it was all way protein. Now, I was ahead of my time. I don't know if you know this. I changed the formula because the pricing kept increasing on way protein.

So I was using a brown rice protein because when I looked at it, it had a higher losing content than way protein. I said, well, this is gonna be great, because it's cheaper. Consumer did not wanna buy it. It was ahead of my time. But now you look at vegan proteins,

pea protein, and protein, rice protein. They're being sold and bodybuilders are using vegan proteins because people have stomach distress from lactose using protein. Collagen protein is a big one. Collagen. It's funny, back in the day, lactose using collagen protein is a big one. You know what's funny back in the day, if you had collagen protein, nobody would want to buy your supplement. It was considered garbage protein.

In fact, a lot of the ready-to-made drinks that you would get at the gym and the cooler. We're collagen. They were collagen and the magazines would shit on it. Like you open up a magazine and say, it's got collagen protein terrible. Now collagen proteins like the premier expensive protein. I'm actually coming up with a college and protein bone broth. Okay.

A bone broth protein, which is the collagen from the bone, as all these benefits. So we are coming up with a bone broth protein. We are coming up with the greens. That's hilarious. We're coming up with, you know, so Gospari is changing, you know, fermented, you know, branch chains.

So these are all the products that are coming into the new emergence of the rebirth ofari is changing, fermented branch chains. So these are all the products that are coming into the new emergence of the rebirth of Gospari nutrition. If you really look at it, Rich, it's the marketing, although it's changed in terms of the channels, this the fundamentals are the same. Cause back then it was magazines which informed people

and then brought value and then they bought your products. Today it's just articles, blogs, and your website. It's really no different. The difference is just delivered. It's just a different medium. It's just a different medium. We talked about our podcast, for example. People aren't reading magazines like they used to, but they maybe will listen to a podcast

which will educate them, build value, and then they'll want to buy your product. I think what you guys are doing is great because you are educating the consumer to not just look at marketing and, you know, hucksters that just sell a product. If you can educate the consumer about the benefits of ingredients and how they work and what's the efficacious doses of those ingredients, you're going to help that consumer to make proper choices and look at the brands that are out there that are doing that. I'm seeing more and more that people want to have that education. They're still the marketing of just, we talked about, you talked about before about a rich piano. That was just this extreme of doing stuff to the extreme and he had that small segment

of people buying the product. But I knew it wouldn't last. I mean, unfortunately, the guy died, but I even, if he didn't, that type of brand will not last. Long Jevety and a brand, you know, get sparing nutrition went through all these. Why is that you think? Because I agree with you. I think there's a lot of those companies out there right now that I see floating around. I don't know if you watched the rise in fall of shreds.

I don't know if you saw that. Right, and we actually called that four years ago when we first started the podcast that watched this and I think it's fascinating because one. They use social media. They were the first to take advantage of Instagram. But what they did wrong is they actually did this before and after my trick, my playbook, but what they did is they they sold, they actually did this before and after, kind of my trick, my playbook.

But what they did is they didn't sell great products. Now, shit. They sold really low-end products to these people with a high margin. And what did it do? It was a temporary sale. And I would always say the most important sale is the second sale. If you can get that consumer to come back to buy that product because they get results, or they like the taste, or they like,

the feeling they get from that product, you're gonna have a company that's gonna stay around. Like I said, we went through a lot with despairing nutrition through financial difficulties. And like I said, companies that go through divorces, or divorces and bankruptcies, and all these different things that happen, not gonna, I just haven't been the jailer,

I gotta rest this on, I don't wanna go that route. I believe that you can stay in Wig-A-Sparry still around, it's a 20 year old brand that's been around. And my passion was to sell products that worked, whether they were prohormons, they definitely worked. Now it's about selling products that worked, that have efficacious doses of ingredients, are safe to use, so that that consumer is going to get something at quality, but it's also they know it's going to be safe in using it.

What do you think about Amazon now entering into the supplement market themselves? We're watching this happen. First of all, bodybuilding.com used to be the one of the biggest Supplement sellers they're just on a nose dive Amazon obviously taking over and now Amazon and I've seen Amazon supplements. They're not good yet But shit if they start making good supplements. I mean, what do you think about that? Well What you just said is will they make good supplements? This is like a big

Well, what you just said is, will they make good supplements? This is like a big company that has so many things that we're working on. The channels that they're making money with, are they going to focus on the supplement business as part of their growth? I doubt it. I think they're going to sell commodity products to take some of those sales,

like proteins and creatines and maybe vitamins. I'm not sure they're going to sit there and have someone that's gonna bring in innovation to the brands. I may be wrong, but Amazon is a huge trillion-dollar business that's making money selling diapers. That's peanuts. Yeah, that's cute.

But here's my theory. My theory is what they'll do. And it goes back to what you were kind of talking about or alluded to earlier, is the fear that I would have is eventually what they would do, or what I would do if I'm basil. So I would go over and I would find one of the biggest players that has incredible supplements. Say, for example, you, you blow the company back up, you're making $100, $200 million a year. And I'm Amazon. I go like, oh, we could sit here and put dump a bunch

of money into trying to compete with him or let's go throw $400 million at this guy and see what he does. And just fucking make you run the company. And now it's under Amazon and that's our product. And like I would go find somebody who's already doing great work there. That could be what they could do. They have that ability to do it. Yeah, we've got that kind of money.

You can do that, right? I mean, you could do that because then like I said, if they're gonna try to do it on their own and all you do is I call them bean counters, guys that are looking and saying, well these are what's selling. Here's the protein, here's this. You need a guy who has the passion,

but I still think for myself, my experience is, once I lost control, because I've been five years in this limbo state. I think it's gonna be very hard because they may still not give that person the creative way of growing that company. They may say, no, here's what we need you to do. They'll be a lot of red tape.

Yeah, they'll be a lot of red tape. No, there's definitely time. They're too busy building flying cars right now. I guess that's the side. I just think they'll be there, but they're not going to totally take over the market because I don't think it's going to be everything they want. It's still going to have players like myself hopefully that are still trying to innovate between the marketing or products.

You know, like I said, we have this new people that are coming up that have successful websites that are selling. The business, like I said, is there's channels of people you're gonna, before you could have multiple channels to sell to, at one point I was selling to GNC, bodybuilding.com, fight them in shop, mom pop stores. Now it's like you gotta focus on one of them. You can't focus on all of them.

You're not gonna be a huge GNC brand, and also be a huge brick and mortar brand. Is that just because of how much attention it takes to? I just think, yes, when you sell to multiple channels, they're going to disrupt the market because they're all going to compete against the channel. I see. What I saw what happened to me is when you have too many channels selling your brand, it just brings down the pricing.

Even though you can have all these map enforcement, it just doesn't work. Interesting. So your goal is direct to consumers, probably the biggest. I think the direct to consumers is probably my best way of keeping net profits higher, building that up to a certain amount, you know, gross sales that we can do. You know, I'm out, you know, gross sales that we can do, continue growing the international sales, still going after the retail sales, looking at Amazon as a way to selling it, but even to Amazon, you know, you want to sell direct as a brand, you can give it to some trusted third parties,

but whenever you give it to other people to sell, it usually never works. So, so being, you were handcuffed now for the last, however many years, and now you own majority of the company or you're in control, how do you feel? You must feel like an uncage lion. Like new legs. I feel, I do feel like an uncage lion.

I'm seeing the difficulties in starting over again. We have a lot of rebuilding. We're in a rebuilding phase right now between rebuilding. If you go to the website right now, we're not gonna have it turned on till the 15th of November. We are still having all the legacy products, but when I was handed over the brand, I was given very little stock labels. So I have over, you know, 40 skews. I have to start over and

make all these products to get them back into stock. And that takes time when you have a manufacturer making, you know, your product. And they could only make so much at a time. Right. Labels, I had to get all the labels redone, put on Prop 65 now that has to be put on there. Yeah, everything gives you cancer. Everything gives you cancer that you have on the labels. So it's a rebuilding phase.

I definitely feel fortunate that I was able to get this back into my ends and have control and run the company and grow it. But it's gonna be a lot of work. Are you going to re brand to different logo type or you're going to keep changing the logo because people recognize the logo. The yellow. Well, actually became now blue. The new logo is a blue.

It used to be yellow and orange now. It's been blue with the disparity with a certain different font. Very similar to the old logo, just a slight change. We are going to go into different products that we talked about earlier, more into like we're doing bone broth protein. Not that that's going to be the big selling product, but we're going to offer neutropics, bone broth protein, greens, but then we have the other products that we're going to sell, like an advanced pre-workout that we're looking to make right now and I'm making a new fat burner. We're going into the functional food market. I believe that's a big part of the market as well. So we're

doing bars right now and other types of functional foods that we're going to introduce to the market. Man, if I'm a supplement company, right now, I would look out for you. When I saw you come up through that supplement business, how smart you were with the way you marketed your products, if you can apply that to the way things are marketed today, I think you'll do just fine. That's the thing. I rather have people underestimate me because when I went down, people said, Gisbury's done, we talked about,

when there's opportunities, my shelf space was like gobbled up by all these different brands between prosupps and optimum and dimetized room. They came in like, like vultures and hyenas just taken over my shelf. And I want that all back between, and what I have is I have relationships with a lot of the people that were buying my brands

between all my international customers. Remember, I've been around a long time. So I know a lot, I've been there, I've seen that, I've seen a lot of things. So I will use some of my old tricks into today's markets. And I wanna say tricks, just different ways of marketing the brand. I do believe the way the brand has to be marketed also is organically. Back then it was like through going to these shows and selling the brand organically.

Now you have social media where you give your product to a bunch of these, you know, like we talked about before, these famous social media bodybuilders and women that are out there, you know, as a mouthpiece for the brand, you know, pushing the brand, using those ways of selling the brand. I would love to, I love someone like you who's had a ton of successful business and in bodybuilding, you know, can you give me a story of like your, like one of the most epic moments as a bodybuilder for you? Like what was like a big, big moment that you'll forever remember? Well, I mean, turning pro was a big, it was something memorable to me because I was this

guy from New Jersey, you know, unknown guy from New Jersey to move to California. I was a very cocky kid. I was this guy that just thought I can take over the world and I went into Gold's Gym. I saw guys like Tom Platt's doing legs. And anything that he wrote in the magazines, I mimicked it, the reps and the sets and everything because I said if he could do it, I could do it.

So the most memorable moment is like, when I got to turn pro, the winning the Mr. Universe back then it was in Las Vegas and it meant a lot to say, you now got your pro card, now you are Mr. Universe and you're now professional. A couple months later, I went out to travel. Now remember I got into the magazines and I was on my way to New Zealand

and I was at the airport going to Australia and I was in New Zealand and someone came up to me and said, wow, you're rich, you're sparing. I said, wow, I'm all the way in the middle of nowhere and this guy recognized who I am. So that's when it was like a moment in my head saying, wow, I really made it as a bodybuilder because I was a big fan of all these guys.

And now I'm one of those guys that people look up to. That's so close. And then what about your business one? There's gotta be a moment when you were grinding in the basement and then you started to make a little bit of money and then when was it did you buy yourself something special and give yourself something when you finally

had made it financially from building that do you remember that? Well those moments of making the million selling how it drove was you know was epic moments. I think also you know in transitioning because you know I told you I saw these pro hormones and people said that I was going to be a flesh and a pan as a brand. And then we started selling these non-hormonal products. You know, basically I used the funding from the pro-hormones to grow the brand. You know, when I was winning, you know, awards with GNC as brand of the year, two years in a row,

against brands like Muscle Tech. I felt that I made it and I was like, wow, I'm this brand, you know, this kid from New Jersey that started as brand in my mom's basement. And now I'm winning, you know, these brand of the year awards. You know, from huge brands that I looked up to like Muscle Tech, by the way, who sold three quarters of the brand for $750 million. There's a lot of money.

Yeah, totally. Totally, yeah. Do you still follow bodybuilding? You're still pretty. I follow the top bodybuilders and you say, like Sean Rodin, I think it was a great, it was really great for him to win because you had Phil Heath,

who they thought was just gonna go right into winning eight Mr. Olympias and beating Lee Haney's record and Ronnie Coleman's record, going to the show. He had problems with his abdominal region, which I don't know what, you know, I think he had a hernia that maybe they didn't prepare properly, but when you saw Sean Rodin, he wasn't the biggest guy. He had this great waistline symmetry. It's like, it wasn't just a mass monster. It was someone that had a combination of everything. I felt like Phil was, he's a great bodybuilder, but he just got too big.

That looked to me. I mean, he was better four or five years ago. Then he is today. I 100% agree. What's your all-time favorite bodies in bodybuilding? Besides yourself, of course, you can't say yourself. I've never been a fan of myself, because I was a hard-working guy.

I mean, I still look up to Lee Haney, because he was a guy. He was just a very spiritual guy. He helped me. When I moved to California, I had nowhere to live. This guy took me in to be his training partner. When we were preparing for the show, he was the one who taught me how to train properly that I went from this powerlifting physique to a bodybuilder. He's the one who like taught me how to train properly that I went from this powerlifting physique to a bodybuilder. He's the one to help me with that.

So I have to give him credit for my successes. And then I was nipping at his toes. You know, he won eight Mr. Olympias, but what was great about him is when he won those eight Mr. Olympias, he retired, never could beat again. Ronnie Coleman, who I commend, winning the same amount of Mr. Olympias, he didn't retire.

He came back, he lost, then he tried to come back again, he lost. So, it kind of tarnished that record of those eight Mr. Olympians where Lee Haney went into bodybuilding, only lost one pro show, the first Mr. Olympia. He lost a couple pro shows at the beginning, but once he first Mr. Olympia, we lost a couple pro shows at the beginning, but once you won Mr. Olympia, it's not stopped. Dominated, won all the shows, retired undefeated. So, you know, that's, and he knew, went to get out

because he knew the Doreen Yates era was coming. He was not gonna go against that. Do you think, because there's like a, some people say that pros that they don't train as hard as they use as the guys use the train. Is that true? You think that's true? You're like the third or fourth guy that's still.

I definitely, listen, I'm in my 50s and I can still kick anybody's. For me, I go into jam and I challenge them to a way to work out, I still do giant sets, I still use, and I don't even use as much weight as I used to use, but the bodybuilders today do not train as hard. I I don't even use as much weight as I used to use, but the bodybuilders today do not train as hard. I just don't see them.

There are few that do, but the majority don't. They're afraid to get in hurt. They don't push their body. Do you think that's because they're reliant too much on the drug culture now? I don't know if it's drugs or it's just this culture of carefully how they train and it's not necessary to push your body to the limit. I mean, you got to remember, I pushed my body to the limit where, like I said, a herniated disc, tore muscles. I do whatever I could. These guys are being so careful in how they train. I can't say it's all drugs because I see guys that really

work. You know, they work hard, they die it. But you don't hear about these, because I'd read the, how you guys use the train and even how Arnold use the train. And you guys were in the gym for two and a half, three hours, just doing insane amounts of volume and sets and failure. And I mean, you have to be just a genetic freak

to even be able to heal from those kinds of workouts. And the guys now, when I read about them or hear about them, it's like they're in their 45 minutes an hour. It's a different level of intensity. It just seems a lot different. I mean, you guys would go in there and just kill yourself. Six days a week, twice a day, we'd have our morning workouts, say it was like... Yeah, double split routine.

Nobody does them anymore. No, double splits. My midday would practice my posing for two hours. I mean, people don't even look at posing. I mean, it is slowly coming back because Arnold made a statement that nobody poses anymore. And now you see people bodybuilders posing this new classic physique, which I think is really

a great look. It's the look that we looked like back in our day is coming back, but people still want to see the freaks But you're right. I'm not sure that it's see to stay that big you can't train six days a week Twice a day double splits. So these guys now are training 45 minutes five five days a week, and it's preventing them from losing that muscle. Sure. Well, because the size is just extreme. These guys are 300 pounds, you know, it's totally different. I just think the way they eat, I mean, back then,

you know, I would eat, you know, 5,000 calories. Some of these guys are eating eight to 10,000 calories. Holy cow. They're loading just tons of food. I think there's a better genetic pool. There's more people in it food. I think there's a better genetic pool. There's more people in it. So you're gonna get a better genetic pool. I agree.

Back then, it was a lot of guys were 90 pound weaklings and got into training to have a, you know, to look good. Now you have athletes that are getting into bodybuilding and becoming there. Oh yeah, when you look at Phil Heath, Kai Green, I mean, who else was, I mean, Flex. A lot of these guys, you look at them before they even grab the iron.

They already looked great. They already looked muscular. I was that skinny kid that got into the gym. So, you know, you have a different genetic pool. Do they have to work as hard? Not really. They have great genetics. I told you, Lee Haney, I worked out so hard.

I'm not saying, in today's time, he worked out really hard, but he never worked out as hard as me. Because he didn't have to. You got guys with great genetics that don't have to work out as hard, because they got great genetics. I don't think it's, you know, I'm not going to say they're not taking drugs, but it's not just the drugs. No, that's a good point. That's probably more, it's probably more of that. It's probably more that, you know, we were starting to figure that out. And just like we are in other other sports. I mean, basketball players tend to all of the basketball players. Now soccer players wear when the sport first started,

just people that were passionate about it, who cares about what you look like genetically. We're starting to figure out. I mean, you go back even early 80s, you had people like Frank Zane who looked totally different from a body builder, like Arnold Schwarzenegger, completely different physics.

You know, one thing too that I noticed that's really changed quite a bit with body building training is, you know, back when you were training, you guys all hit your body, you did double split routines, nobody does a double split routine anymore. For the listeners who have no idea what I'm talking about, you work out twice a day. So you'd work out, and the reason why you'd work out twice a day

is because you were doing 20 sets or more per body part, but you were training each body part three days a week. You guys were doing a lot of frequency. Now the irony of that rich is funny because now we got all these studies that are coming out showing how you need to work out to build maximum muscle. And I learned this as a personal trainer that ideally, even if you take the same amount of volume,

when you train your body parts more frequently, you build more muscle. Now, this may not be necessarily true for the super genetically gifted, or even people on lots of anabolic, but training your muscles frequently just builds more muscle. You guys are training your whole body

at least three days a week, but the only way you can fit that all in a workout, because you were doing like 27 sets per body part, double split, morning and night. That's the train, like you said, like shoulders in the morning, arms in the evening, or you know, abs every day, abs are done every day, calves were done

every other day or almost every day, you know, that I would train them. You're right, you have to train your body, you would do your whole body, no, it was basically, it was a six day routine. Training your body parts twice a week. Oh, you're twice a week? Twice a week.

So, Armin was the one that did it. He did three days towards the end there. Yeah, towards the end, but I thought it was a little too much for me. So I did twice a week, and now people just train once a week, body part once a week. They do their whole body in five days.

Guys are competing, doing just once a week, and I was like, that's off season training for me. That's not a contest training. You know, but I didn't know that when you said what study's showing that, but it also made a different physique. If you look at what we looked like and guys like I was trying to get bigger and when I was getting bigger, I was seeing my symmetry just not looking the same like my obliques were thicker. When I competed, I had to keep my waist at a certain size. So if I gained too much upper body mass, my obliques would naturally grow.

So I would not train, I would make sure I would be at a certain body weight. And if I got myself too big, I noticed that I just didn't look right. Well. But today, it doesn't matter. They can be thicker. You look at guys, they're waist look thicker, much thicker.

You know, when you look at them backstage, some of these guys have like, like, they're pregnant. Yeah, they look pregnant. And when they're hitting poses, they're hitting their back from the front. You see these big guts. Is it just so much muscle?

Well, yeah, if you're listening right now, and you know, you're not familiar with Rich Gosparr, just Google some of his back shots. I mean, there were really set the standard for definition and conditioning. Christmas tree strided glutes, hamstrings, absolutely insane. Pleasure. But the pleasure talking to you. Yeah, man. It's very enjoyable. Very, very happy you came in. Thank you. No, thank you for bringing me here all the way from New Jersey. I don't, man. You're a good West Coast.

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