Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 907: Cory Schlesinger

Episode Date: November 22, 2018

Episode 907: Cory Schlesinger  Cory shares the painful experience of tearing his Achilles. (4:24) What lead him to become the Sports Performance Coach of Stanford Basketball? (6:06) How to be a GREAT strength coach, you have to COMPETE in something. (10:51) What does he mean when he says kids are coming in as “broken toys”? (13:28) Finding his value and being an identifier when it comes to his athletes. (18:13) What are some of the most common imbalances he sees with his athletes? (21:09) How does he revert the major lifts and balance risk/reward with his athletes? Replace the compound lifts with his athletes? (23:30) Using wearable tools to monitor and track an athletes practice load. How does he use the data as a coach? (30:51) The importance of strength training during the season. (43:00) Safety nets for safety nets. How does he monitor the output by his athletes based on the data he receives? (46:25) Understanding the dynamics of his athletes in the outside world. (49:24) Does he have a favorite kind of athlete? Least favorite? (51:45) Does he watch a lot of basketball or is he in it too much? (56:58) What are some of the biggest mistakes he sees strength coaches make on all levels? (1:00:54) His take on early specialization in one sport. (1:02:40) What are some of his favorite education tools/certifications for coaches to research? (1:08:13) The major backlash ahead dealing with activity levels and social media with our youth. (1:13:45) What does the future evolution of professional sports look like? (1:20:43) How does he feel about the early start to the current season? (1:31:07) His take on the Freshman 4 over at Duke? (1:31:57) Does he have any favorite NBA teams/players that he follows? (1:33:25) Is he a talent acquisition or leadership guy? (1:36:44) His take on college athletes getting paid? (1:39:10) Featured Guest/People Mentioned: Cory Schlesinger (@schlesstrength)  Instagram Jason Borrelli (@Jason_Borrelli)  Twitter Kevin Durant (@easymoneysniper)  Instagram Paul J. Fabritz (@pjfperformance)  Instagram Eitan Gelber (@egelber)  Twitter Russell Westbrook (@russwest44)  Instagram Zion Williamson (@ZionW32)  Twitter Links/Products Mentioned: November Promotion: MAPS Anywhere ½ off!! **Code “WHITE50” at checkout** Athletic Training Platform® 2018 – Westside Barbell Kinexon – Sports INSIGHTS FROM THE NBA: HOW WEARABLE TECHNOLOGY ENRICHES PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT THROUGH THE PLAYER LIFE CYCLE Warriors 'wearable' weapon? Devices to monitor players while on the court Mind Pump Episode 900: NBA Superstar Sports Performance Coach Paul Fabritz NCAA Study Reveals When Athletes Begin Sport Specialization Functional Anatomy Seminars How to Understand Common Core's Math Methods - Parent Toolkit Cracking the Metabolic Code: 9 Keys to Optimal Health: Easyread Super Large 18pt Edition - Book by B. Lavalle R.Ph. C.C.N. N.D., James and James B Lavalle Everly Well **Code “mindpump” for 15% off** InsideTracker Fantastic freshmen help No. 4 Duke blow out No. 2 Kentucky

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Yeah, so Corey Schlesinger, does he name right? Schlesinger? He said it right this time. Okay, I said it right. Thanks. Good thing Doug didn't record the first one. Yeah, it's good.

You met him first, Justin. I did. I was able to go up to Stanford, and I feel like I already said this before, but yeah, I was like hanging out and we got to see his facility, and he just kind of broke down the way that he programmed for all these athletes, and I was so impressed with, you know, what he's doing up there that I thought he'd be a great guest. So he's what, the coach, the strength coach for? Yes, that's a strength coach for the men's basketball team. And also, I was connected to him from Jordan Shalos.

I knew that Jordan Shalos wouldn't just throw any schlobar away, right? That's right. No, he's great dude. Very cool guys. And you know what, we get into this episode. We get to talk about those of you guys that are like sports. You guys, if you like the PJF performance, you'll like this one.

You'll love it. It's a great follow up to that. It is a great follow up to that. And this was really, really enjoyable. I love the fact that we're diving in sports. I got a chance to talk to him about basketball forever, a little bit on the show and even longer afterwards. And one of the things that I was fascinated by was

they are doing what I knew the Golden State Warriors were already doing, which was tracking the movement of the players. And there's only a handful of NBA teams and college teams that are doing this in Stanford. It's one of them. In fact, he talks about it in the episode about being the first college campus to actually implement this into. He's a very holistic look at the whole entire process, which I really appreciate.

It really falls in line with a lot of the way that we think about training too. Yeah. I really enjoy interviewing these coaches who are just so smart. You know, there's a lot you can learn from them. Yeah. You can find him on Instagram at Schlesst strength. You can't pronounce it, but it's pretty, but this is how you spell it. SCH L E S strength. That's where you can find him on Instagram. And we also mentioned Everly Well because we started talking about like testing hormones and how he thinks that's the future

and we think that's also the future of athletic testing is testing hormone levels and to see if a workout is doing them good, if the diet is affecting the hormones in a positive way, I talk about how Everly Well tests are so easy to take, if you do them at home and how I think it's beneficial for people to monitor these things, at least a few times a year to see

how their bodies responding to the programs. And we are sponsored by them. So if you go to EverlyWell.com and use the code MindPump, you'll get 15% off any test. Also, of course, maps anywhere, half off, all month long. That's the equipment-free maps program. Just go to month long. That's the equipment free maps program. Just go to mapswhite.com and use the code white50. That's WHITE, the number 50 without a space at checkout.

And before we get started with the episode, I don't want to get too into this. But tomorrow, we have a big announcement. Tomorrow's a big black Friday announcement. You'll have to tune in tomorrow in our episode to see what the hell's going on. It's kind of crazy. That's it.

It's big. That's it. So without any further ado, here is your interview. Let's go. Cray, have you done a podcast yet? Yeah, I've done a few. Okay. Not like this, though.

This is like fucking Rogan compared to what the fuck I've been doing. Well, yeah, typically I mean, we haven't been in a podcast that we've been around podcasters for the last four years and not a lot of, not a lot of energy and focus was put on the sound quality. And shit, I, you know, I know for sure the three of us knuckleheads wouldn't have if it wasn't for Doug. Doug is like a Mr. anal sound over here. And I thought that was gonna sound for some more.

Sounds right. But I brought to you by Doug. Yeah. But I do appreciate it now because when I listen to other podcasts, it's just, he's ruined my experience of listening to anybody else. It sounds like they're in a fucking bathroom. And so, you know, you're starting to see it start to level up.

So I think you're gonna see more and more studios like ours eventually pop up. But right now, podcasting so it's in its infancy still. So there's a lot of people that are just kind of ripping it off their wild place or at their house or whatever. So you'll see it dev all soon. We good dug over there? Oh nice.

We're hot, man. We're hot. Dude, so you came in here and I saw you you're Jumping you're running everything's great and also near on a scooter. What happened man? Dude, I was an athlete man. I mean, I was a high level. Okay. I wasn't getting paid for that, but Yeah, Torma Achilles trying to to be great. So we were playing we're playing pick up

two and a half hours right before our first exhibition. Yeah. And yeah, it was the last play of the game, naturally, you know, that goes. And it had to be put in my hand, so I had to go get a bucket and I did not get a bucket. Oh no!

And you didn't score? No! Didn't score either, man. It was a damn manager's foot I landed on. I'm just the manager's foot now. Damn manager. So I give him a very hard time and he gets a lot of hard tasks from here on out.

Yeah. Nice, great kid. But yeah, I landed on his foot and I knew exactly what happened. I didn't get the rupture, which was at first I thought that was awesome. Right. And like hours later, like June,

when you get the rupture, you lose the pain since like, oh, it's, you know, because you kill those nerve endings, but the pain stayed and I didn't get that baseball bat feeling. Like someone smacked me so I was like, okay, it's all intact, I'm good. And then, yeah, hour later our team.com sees me, tested negative, I think it's called the Thompson test.

And then we went into surgery or had an MRI the next morning, surgery the next day. So they had to reattach it. Yeah. So it was really close to the insertion. And basically at that point, it was string cheese. So they had to lengthen me up top, stretch me down. And then I had this deformity. So they had to shave off my heel bone, essentially, and then reattach. So a fun one. Wow. It's going to take a little while to rehab that. No, no. No, no. Now, I know you're the sports performance coach

for Stanford basketball. Tell us how you got to that. Like, what led you to here? Man, it's an interesting story. So I play college basketball. Do not look up my stats. Not impressive at all. But I was more like the Ann one mixtape kind of guy.

Like, oh, I love the flash So you know, I played this the lowest level of college basketball, but I went to a very interesting university It's called barit or school. It's called a barria college. It's in Kentucky and they would pay for me to go do internships So it was a really cool experience So and of course you get course credit. So I started my journey and the strength At the weight at Wake Forest University when I was 18 years old first summer. And then from that point I just kept jumping internships, the internships. Luckily I had a really good resume just coming out of college. So my next internship was at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill where I met my mentor and his name is Jonas Ration, the most brilliant individual that I've ever met.

Still blows me away with all of his information, but from that point, my current coach, we used to play a new in ball together at Carolina. So that's how we started our initial relationship. After there, I was an intern at the Olympic training center, Colorado Springs, working with combative and acrobativ athletes before the 2012 games. So the mindset, like people want to talk about mindset. Yeah. Wow. Just even being around those folks. Like every little tiny incremental progress matters.

It was unreal. Like, it was, how did you separate yourself from other people to be able to be the one to help them with that? Like what made you, what made them work with you and not someone else? Man to be honest with you. It's especially in strength. It's all about who you know. Like I hate like I hate to say I'm like a business. But you know my mentor is very well known and I threw that on the resume. I'm 90 or at that point I was 20, 21 years old. And when the directors at the Olympic Train Center saw that they're like, whoa. So old. And when the directors at the Olympic training center saw that, they're like, whoa.

So when they saw that you worked with the sky, they're like, oh, we gotta get there. Yeah, we need to bring him in. Like, all free work. Yeah, we need to bring him in. Yeah. Now, why is that? What is it about your mentor?

What made him so special? What is it that he taught you that made people just want to bring you on board? Best basketball organization out there, right? I mean, you know, it's funny to say that because the, man, I'm about to start a lot of fires here. There we go. Yeah, the higher up you go, the worst strength coaches I think you see. Really? 100% 100% and the lower you go, the worst strength coaches you see. The best are around

the middle. Interesting. Now, there's some brilliant people like in spots, like, and once again, I'm probably biased, but his body will work and a lot of other people in my field that respect him could would agree say he's probably the best and he just so happens to work with one of the best blue blood programs in college basketball. But for him, it's the holistic approach and I never thought in the way that he thinks. And so he started me down this path of, not necessarily a hammer, is your only tool, right? Like powerlifting, everybody's got to get stronger. Everybody starts in this field trying to be,

A, a bodybuilder, be a powerlifter, and then they're like, oh, let's be a little bit more athletic and become an Olympic weightlifter, right? That's, I think that's everyone's evolution in my field. And then he got me way further along at such an earlier age. So I was able to dabble and meet a lot of brilliant people just because of his name alone. Right. Because you also told me like before that you're a purist in terms of a lot of things like yeah like Olympic lifts and power lifts and all that. So was that your mentality going into the internship with him?

No, so to be honest with you going into the internship with him? No, so to be honest, whether you're going into the internship with him, okay, once again, like we're all, remember 18, 19 years old, you get a little taste of something, I know it all. I got a life figured out, right? Like a license, you can't tell me anything.

So that's how I was. So I'll never forget my first day in his weight room. I'm cleaning something or whatever, and he goes, you're gonna lift today? Oh, shit, yeah, I'm gonna show this guy I can lift. So I was like, yeah, I'm a clean, right? Because if you can clean, then you're good. Yeah, if you can get a good clean,

like you're automatically respected. Worked up to I think like 80 kilos, something like that. Bang! Obviously not hearing the back. What the fuck was that? That's not it. Oh shit. That's like, damn, I should have benched today the back, what the fuck was that? And I was like, oh shit. I was like, damn, I should have benched today.

Like, that was bad. Wrong move. And so, you know, it was the tension to detail that he had and he put me down the purist path. And so going down the purist path was great, but in reality, I mean, we work with athletes, right? So it's more of not necessarily the purest standpoint, it's just the quality control.

So that's what I cared about the most. And that's what I think was it for him and it had been that. You think it's important to have that purest, those purest roots so that you can identify quality of movement when you're working with an athlete, because there's so many different things that they're doing. Absolutely.

I feel like at some point you have to compete, right? If you're a good drink coach, I think you need to compete in something. Whether it's powerlifting, whether it's weightlifting, whether it's bodybuilding even, I don't know, that sounds crazy bodybuilding, but the things that you take away from those disciplines, for instance, bodybuilding for me, I did, now, once again, long time ago, and I sucked at it. Wait, you did bodybuilding? I did bodybuilding.

You did? Yeah, I was a glorified swimmer on stage, but just going through that dieting process alone, the discipline, I mean, that's 12 weeks of, like, perfect, perfect everything, and I still sucked, right? So, like, from that perspective, and then if you really wanna learn about nutrition,

put your body through that. If you really wanna know the effects of 20 carbs, put your body through that. If you really want to know the effects of 20 carbs, put your body through that. And then you can totally understand how everything else affects each other, right? I'm sorry, I digress. No, when you mentioned the holistic approach, what did you mean by that?

Did you mean like he's looking at an athlete and looking at a whole, because you think you mentioned the hammer, he's looking at a whole tool chest and saying, with this athlete, we're gonna use some stuff from yoga or some stuff from Olympic lifting, or is that, is that right? Right, you're saying, yeah, so it's more of,

yeah, you have to, you have to be almost saying, what's the term, a master of one or whatever. Jack of all, yeah. So, are Jack of one or... Jack of all? Yeah. So, or Jack of all trades, and I meant, yeah. For him, it was more like you got to be a master of all trades, like in some form or fashion. Like you got to be able to be able to a, demonstrate, and number one, understand the purpose, right?

So in all these sub disciplines, you know, even from return to play protocols, from tissue, from, you know, things that come in from other areas, like physical therapy, athletic training, all the sub disciplines of sports medicine. Because I love to think of myself as a sports performance coach, like, oh man, these guys are performing at a higher level because of me, but in reality, especially in this day and age of college basketball,

or an NCAA but in reality, especially in this day and age of college basketball, or in NCAA sports in general, you're making sure kids aren't fucked up. When these kids come in, I mean, they're broken toys. So you got to start not from zero. I mean, it's like negative three just to get them to, oh, now we can do some general strength training. Now, and then you're in year three, year four, and you're like, oh, we did a couple of things that was pretty special. Now, what do you mean by broken toys for the listeners who are hearing this and aren't super privy to that level of competition?

For sure. When you're getting these new athletes in and you're saying they're broken, like what do you see? What do you notice? Well, I mean, surgeries. I mean, I got kids who've had two or three surgeries before the age of 18.

Wow. What's going on here, right? And you can blame it on early specialization and A.U. basketball year around. You can blame it on all these other things. But in reality, I think it goes way deeper and I think it goes into, and once again, I can digress with this, but I think it goes into

our Western education right now. I think it goes into that we don't have physical education at an early age, or it's not as popular as it used to be. And so now you got kids who have zero motor competency but they just show happen to have some genetic potential and some talent and then now they play one sport all the time to not only in these fixed patterns and you wonder why. Like when I get guys, I don't get good athletes.

I don't get a single good athlete. I get a good basketball player. There's a huge difference a single good athlete. I get a good basketball player. There's a huge difference between being a good athlete and being a good basketball player. Just because you can demonstrate some things with a basketball in your hands, like you can jump real high off one leg. Man, you see them watching, just do a basic body weight squat.

You go, oh Jesus, how do you do what you do without wrecking yourself? I see. So that's more the... Now that's crazy. So when you get these guys, do you have to really regress the programming then? Are you doing some very basic,

and how challenging is that for you and them? Where they're like, just show me this or give me that. And you're like, no, no, no, listen, you can't even fucking body weights. I'm not gonna load you with 300 pounds. Like how does that pan out? Well, you know, we do some pretty interesting things. So at Stanford, I have one of the best facilities for this.

So coach Barrelli, he's the wrestling coach. He has this huge, huge wrestling room. Like it's like the size of a half court of just all padded floors and padded walls, all right? And so from there, day one, we go in there and it's what you would think of physical education back into 50s and 60s, right? It's like tumbling, like low level gymnastics.

Oh, wow. We take some aspects of Jiu Jitsu training, so partner training. So it's more about like them understanding their body. Body awareness. That's all it is. It's all it is because once again, if they don't even know how to use their own body,

let's add external resistance to that and see what happens. Right, right. You're going to blow them up even faster. So we have a ton of assessments, but one of my favorite is a no-hand to get up. Right. My guy, sit down on the ground. Get up. Sit down on the ground.

Get up. Do a lot of guys fail at that at that age? Absolutely. Wow. But the thing is, I don't give them any instruction. I think that's a huge mistake that we make as coaches, is we give them too much instruction. Like, here, do this, and I want you to do, boom, boom, boom.

Like, you want the perfect movement day one. No, I don't want that. I want the worst movement day one, because I want to see what their natural tendencies are. So, for instance, I don't give them any cues, I just say sit down. Yes, stand up. Sit down, stand up. I do it 50 times and you just watch the repetitive pattern and you start to see what's breaking down. What's not working? Absolutely. You start seeing oh, oh man, why they always put their right hand down?

Why are they always flexing to their left side? Why are they always standing up with that same leg? And then when they sit down, why they just flop down? Right? Why can't they cross their legs? And then you see some guys I was surprised you're down, right, why can't they cross their legs? And then you see some guys, I was surprised, you're like, man, they got good hip internal and excellent rotation. And then once you start seeing these things manifest, then you start taking things away.

All right, now you can't use your hands, get up and get down. Whole shit. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. And you find the real problem, right? No tea spines, no hips, no nothing. Right, so then you give them a right? So then you, you know, you give them a little little assistance, um, and then you let them use momentum, and then that's,

that's the quote-unquote functional movement screen, just being able to get up and get down. That's what we do as humans every single day, but these kids are already screwed at that. So, wow. You want to talk about recovery, you want to talk about, you know, all these things. So, adding basketball, adding weights, adding all this, but they can't even get out of bed properly. Yeah, come on. Like, I gotta make them better humans before I can make them better athletes.

And so then, it's about being a better human. Right, no, it's, I love that you're saying this because I think if you just make somebody stronger, will their performance improve? Yes, however, it'll come with a lot of other risks because they haven't corrected how they move and they haven't become more efficient. If I correct someone's movements and make them more efficient at how they move and make things move better, then they'll perform better and it'll come with the benefit of more safety and less risk of injury. It's like adding more horsepower to a car that's not secured

and everything's not secured. The chance that something's gonna blow up is much, much higher. How hard is that conversation to have with an ad, because you're Stanford. Hey, I'm a badass now. I'm playing for Stanford. I'm obviously smart.

I'm sure you get a lot of kids who are like, I know more than you do or think they do. How do you talk to them about and say to them, look, now actually know this whole season, we're just gonna be getting up off the floor and with no hands, we're not gonna be and lift single hands away. Well, I do throw cherry pie,

and that's what I call a throw cherry pie because at the end of the day, my sport is tank top season all year round, right? So, oh yeah, we'll throw in some arms. They're good. You know, we throw in arms, all is good. Doesn't matter what we did before that or after that. You throw in some gun show, or we call it, you know,

the arm farm, since we're on the arm. You know, then we're all good. Like it doesn't matter what we do. If you could just throw in some curls and do it. That's the girls you're great. Yeah, you're like, oh, you fucking nothing up like this? That do it. Girls, you're great. You're like, hey, fuck another time like this, that's great. That's the cherry pie, right? And so, they have a deep understanding

and they all actually do their own research. The Stanford athlete is different than any other athlete I've ever came in touch with. At first, it was boring because they were just, yes, sir, no, sir, like the bubble bowl. I boring because they were just yes, yes sir, no sir, like the bubble ball. I mean they were just great young adults. I was sitting there like, man, I'm used to shitheads. Like these guys are, but these are just great young human beings that were raised by great parents that came from good households. But you know, there's

the other side of that too. And there's the side where, you know, maybe they don't, they're not as tough. Maybe they didn't have as much adversity growing up. So there's the other side of that too. So what do I do? So in my world, or in my role as a strength coach or a sports performance specialist, or whatever title we want to give ourselves these days,

it's where you got to find your value. So when I was at other schools, I'm totally different at the school I'm at now, right? So, you know, I'm an identifier for a lot of things, for personality traits, for I'm not saying disorders, but mood issues, right? You know, things where like we were talking about earlier, we're in the wrestling room day one, and we're having them do certain these things, and then we're pushing and pulling each other, and we're carrying each other, and you just see attitudes, and you can see a couple of them like certain these things, and then we're pushing and pulling each other, and we're carrying each other, and you just see attitudes,

and you can see a couple of them like, you know what the fuck, we don't. Okay, that guy's not gonna enjoy when shit gets hard, right? Or, for instance, I mean, when you turn up the temperature in the room, now we'll start adding a little bit of volume to what we're doing, because, you know, we learn the pattern, so it's add some volume,

you see guys break down, it's not because of physical capacities, because of mental capacity, and then you're like, okay, hey coach, these are the things that I'm forwarding to him saying, these are what I'm seeing in a controlled environment. Now imagine a basketball environment, which is dynamic. There's another team, there's the crowd,

there's all this pressure, there's all this fast actions. So I think it's gonna get magnified. So here's information to you coach, so that you understand what you got now. Interesting. What are some of the most common traits that you're seeing in these students that you need to work on or, I guess, in balances? What are some of the most common ones? Time management is number one.

Okay. Like, these kids on, like, it's, I mean, okay, I'm still learning how to be an adult, so I can't talk too much crap, but for them to understand like, oh, if I need to get X, Y, and Z done, well then I actually need to plan for that to get done. And then for me to repeat that. And that's where, like time management skills,

if I could teach them that from jump street, then we're gonna, we're gonna, like, recovery, they're nutrition, all that's gonna take care of itself, because they're handling themselves as men, right? It's, I mean, sometimes I know for myself, I was graduated from my undergrad, and I still couldn't do that, right?

I mean, I still had troubles this day. So, you know, for those kids, if I can give them time management skills, then to me, that's more than I can give them sets and reps. What about physically? What are some of the most common imbalances and points to choose? Yeah, physically, I mean, they're trash. So my good friend, Texas, his name is Daniel Rousse. He gave me the best analogy ever for what we get. And he's like, we have giraffes with clown shoes. That is brilliant.

That's a great picture. That's exactly what I got coming in the door. You know, I got guys with really tall goofy. It's unreal, man. Like, I got a kid, I'm not even kidding. He's six, six, with a seven foot two wingspan. Oh my god. Wow.

What do you do? He's not gonna get sloppy from across the street. Yeah, I got to. But, I mean, that's what basketball is, long, long dudes. Right. I mean, even at the point car positions, you got guys that have longer wingspan's by a foot and a half, you know, or a foot to a foot and a half, and you're just sitting there like, I don't even know how you operate.

Right. And so then we want to talk about bigger, faster, stronger. Right. All you gentlemen in the room, imagine, okay, now I'm gonna do a simple bicep curl. Okay, add another four arm to that. Do that same curl. Okay, now add that to your legs, do a squat, do a run, do a jump. Shit just got real for everyone in this room because now you understand, wow, I wonder why basketball players aren't quote-unquote strong. That's why. Right? Biomechanically, they are fucked. Long levers. Yeah, that's why. Bomicanically, they are fucked.

Long levers. Yeah, that's why you don't see six, eight dudes in the Olympics, you know, snatchin' in jerking, right? It makes sense, right? Well, I want you to talk a little bit about like your approach to that in terms of like how to regress a lot of the exercise,

risk versus reward and like how you came to conclude kind of what was most beneficial for your athletes. Great question. Is an evolution, to be honest with you, like, once again, when I was young, I was a purist. I was like, hey, everybody's going to snatch clean jerk. We're going to squat dead, left bench. We're going to hit all the big threes in each category, right? And it depends on the level you're at.

So when I was at Santa Clara's, low major, you know what? All my guys did that pretty proficient and I'm very much anal about technique, right? So for me to say, those guys look good, right? Then at UAB, I had guys, yeah, we cleaned, we snatched, jerks were okay, squatting, we'd have to make some alterations, dead lifts, you know, had to make, then I get the stand for it and I'm like, oh, so it seemed like the higher I go,

the better athletes I get, well, you know what, those Olympic lifts, those power lifts, those, those aren't good for them. Like, it doesn't work the same. So it's like, oh man, my thought process this whole time was we need to do all these lifts to be explosive and to be strong and to be all this and it's like well, no because Their athleticism comes from a different animal, you know mine comes from my point of view because I'm short mechanical levers. Yeah, it made me better quickly, right? But for them the technicality of it was so strong I mean any purist in the room that can understand the snatch and clean, if you're pulling

and you don't hit high hip, it's a problem, right? But imagine now you have that seven foot two wingspan. There is no such thing as high hip anymore. It's all mid-thigh, contact because you're on length. So it's not as effective of a lift, necessarily, right? So that's when it's like, oh. You're bringing up great points because, you know, and the great thing about especially free weights

is that you can modify the hell out of them for different individuals. But when you're looking at that level of athlete, they just don't build like the average person. If you've ever seen, I remember the first time I ever saw somebody who was over six foot eight, which is very rare in real life, you look at them, they look like a average person. If you've ever seen, I remember the first time I ever saw somebody who was over six foot eight, which is very rare in real life, you look at them,

you just, they look like a different species. It's a different human being. So what kind of exercises then do you replace some of these, well, we consider foundational lifts? Like what do you do instead of those? Great question. And I think this has been like my new wave.

Like it's all because of Stanford. It's all because of the kids that I got. And that's what like real quick, you are who you're environment is. Who you are as a strength coach is the athletes that you are training, right? And so, for me, coming from that Santa Clara that UAB now coming in a Stanford, you know, the Olympic lifts, they're great. We still use them, all right, because there's too many other things that I want to benefit from it from a neck-up standpoint, not necessarily from a neck down standpoint. We can go into that later.

But what I've replaced with is really simple. It's a trap bar. Trap bar has been my savior. Okay, and the reason why I say that is, we do trap our cleans. Holy shit, you think trap our cleans. You just decapitated your athlete. Like what happened, right?

Yeah, I think we're not. Exactly, so if the listeners can imagine with me for a second, if you watch the action of a clean, right, say, we're pulling from the floor, we pull, we triple extend, and then we hit a power catch, right? So that means knees bend at nine degrees, you know, or hips are above knees, right? And now, okay, do the exact same thing

that you would see from a pierce from a clean, with a straight barbell, do the exact same thing with a trap bar. You can still pull, you can still get into triple extension, and you can still hit that power position and hold. It's all about intent, right? Now I didn't have to teach the athlete any bar pathways. It's in their center of mass, and guess what? We have load.

So I don't have to teach it as much. They're in better biomechanical positions, and I get to load it faster. So you're not bringing the trap bar up to, you can't do that with a trap bar. You're just doing the bar side. Yeah, you're just doing the explosive part. Yeah, just like a shrug you would see,

like a clean pool or that. Which technically, technically, if you think about the clean that's most of the benefit for especially for a basketball ball. Well, I mean bringing the bar up to your shoulders for the listeners who don't know what I'm talking about when they do a clean it means they're bringing it you know it's off the floor it's explosive then you flip the bar up and it's up on your shoulders. That last part is the probably one of the most technical parts that people mess up on or have difficulty with but a lot of the benefit comes from before you do that part.

So you're almost eliminating some of that and then doing, for sure. And then I can argue both sides because yes, the pull is important. Yes, we want the concentric everybody's like, hey, you want to jump higher, right? So like pull, pull, pull. But we got to absorb those forces too.

So the catch, like I like the catch a lot. Oh, I see. But now just do it with a trap bar. So instead of bringing the bar up, you just keep it by your side. You explode up, triple extension, and then boom. Instead of letting that bar drop all the way to the ground, catch it, and then you're at a quarter squat position and you don't let that bar move. Oh, I see. Yeah. So from that perspective, like once again, I would love to demonstrate for you, for you, Jill.

We'll do that later. Yeah, we'll do that later. Yeah, I'm a pirate right now. But so yeah, I mean, so now I just took the intent of the lift that all the benefits that I want, and I just shifted it to a different implement. Now, I've never seen anybody do a clean with the trap bar. That doesn't mean it wasn't done before.

I've just never seen one. Had you seen one before? Some girls? I've never seen one before. The only thing that I've saw was people jump a trap, ours. And I was like, yeah, it's the loaded jump. You can do the same thing with the barbell, make sense. But I've never seen anybody actually go with the intent

of, okay, here's a clean pool, right? Oh, here's a clean. So, okay, well, that's what I care about. So you invented it? Sure. I'm all right. We'll call it the's a clean. So, okay, well, that's what I care about. So you invented it. Sure. We're all right. We'll call it the slush clean. Yeah, sure.

Yeah. It's fascinating. The way you're explaining it's absolutely brilliant. And you're absolutely right. Every time I've ever worked with a client with really, really long levers, just a track bar deadlift is better than a straight bar deadlift. Absolutely, it's a savior.

It's an absolute savior. What about some of the other exercises or the any replacements for like a barbell squat or do you keep them that way or do more split stance exercises? Like what's the? Really good question. It depends on the cat.

I got a seven footer who's got a long torso. You never see that. So a front squat for him is like, ay, you know, or but most of the guys I have are spiders. You know, they got really small torso is really long levers. So you know, some of those of the guys I have are spiders, you know, they got really small torsos, really long levers. So, you know, some of those front squat positions are actually pretty okay with them,

as long as they have the prerequisites, the rack of bar or, you know, they have the T spine and all that. But, um, yeah, we play a lot around with a lot of specialty bars. Um, I have that athletic training platform from Westside. It's basically a belt squat. Um, it's like a belt squat, 2.0 though. Like you get to move in all directions like you want. It's like a pitch shark, you know, it's straight up and down. Athletic training platform, it's basically a cord.

So I can move around and a lot of different planes. So you can do a lot of cool stuff with it, but more importantly, you can just squat with it. Now I'm not actual loading them. So I'm just loading their hips. So we can get really, really strong from the waist down. And then I can challenge them upstairs with other things. Oh, awesome.

One thing I wanted to bring up to, and I know we're kind of brushing a lot of like the general stuff that you do with your athletes, but like you take it to like the most comprehensive level I've seen in terms of managing forces, shearing forces, stress, outside stuff like that, can you sort of break down your programming?

And I remember there was like three main things that you were concerned in terms of how you're managing the strength, the explosive output, and the forces and all that, can you explain that? Yeah, so we have force plates, and we get a lot of good information all that, can you explain that? Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, we have, so we have force plates and we get a lot of good information from that, but there's also an asterisk beside that because jumping is a skill, right?

And if I give a cue to jump a different way, then I got a different impulse, or I got a different eccentric rate of force of element or I got so you know we everything that we do in an assessment is with a grain of salt right but as far as looking at all those forces holistically you have to have the tools in place to truly do it now you can do it from an economical level right you can do it where you're just for instance oh you're tired today. Okay, I got you. Or you could do HRV, right? Or you can go, okay, well, let's look at how much load you put on the bar today.

And then you can go, oh, well, now we can put a Tindo on it and see how fast it went. Okay. And then another level, where is the biggest stress coming from from a college basketball player? Well, it's not coming from the weight room. It's not coming from life. It's coming from practice. So how's everybody monitoring those loads? Well, luckily we have GPS, so we have this company called ConnectsOn. And so I get to see speed and distance.

So now we've taken... So you're monitoring the practice? Yeah, monitoring the practice. Yeah, I'm talking pros right there, because that was something I heard, I've watched a lot of basketball, and I heard them talking about this with the lawyers. How long have we been doing this?

I don't remember this one as a kid that we were monitoring this type of stuff. When did we start doing that where we are really paying attention to the miles or total like steps and movement that an athlete is taking throughout the week? The English Premier League soccer was doing it before anybody else to my knowledge and then possibly like international rugby. But those guys were doing it it before anybody else to my knowledge and then possibly like international rugby But those guys were doing it way before anybody else, right as far as hoops are concerned They had all the they had like the yeah, I want to say like even five to six years ago Wasn't that long ago?

Yeah, they had you know all these cameras and every arena and it's doing all this stuff and you get all these great metrics and that's cool then catapult came on the scene and they tried to make catapult into and every arena and it's doing all this stuff. And again, all these great metrics, and that's cool. Then Catapult came on the scene, and they tried to make Catapult into the basketball arena, but the problem with that was it wasn't true GPS. It was basically accelerometer, accelerometer, so it was like a Wii controller on your back, and it's like, okay, I can see some limitations with that as well.

And then Kadexon came in and their GPS endorsed. And now we're the flagship program that's using it because we're the first adopter in college basketball or actually in college sports. But now you're seeing I think eight NBA teams now using it going to stay worries being one of them. And so, you know, I like to think that, hey, we kind of got we kind of got out early on one of these. That's too. I knew it was early. I've never heard that. I'm like, I had never heard that. I was like, that's so smart.

I don't even know what this is. So they wear a device that literally tracks them in their movement and their speed of movement. Yeah, so it's basically a little chip that goes in their back, right? So we wear like a compression top and it has a little pouch. And so I just slide their unit into the pouch. It's seriously, it's like the size of a cracker.

It's not that big at all. And then we have all these antennas set up in our practice gym in our arena. And so it's communicating with it via Bluetooth, okay? And I get it all in real time, so it's web-based. It's really cool, so I can be in my weight room and I can watch what kind of offense we're running on the court.

Oh, that's so dope. That's a very cool dots show. Now, what the hell I would do with that information, I have no idea. Call it in your coach. I don't like that off-ents. You want to like that. A lot of bull. Right. Right. Right. But yeah, how do you use that information as a strength coach? Great question. So I am a very, I mean, a rare situation, especially in college basketball, where me and my sport coach, we get along so well. And I mean, we've been together this going in year six, but he, he values my opinion, especially when it comes

to stress and loads. So now, no offense to my coaches, no offense to basketball coaches, no offense to anybody who's trying to do the right thing via practice or games, but those guys, they know a lot about basketball. They don't know a damn thing about the human body though. So when you think about how preseason practices were going, they think about, okay, what do I need to get done? Right. What do I need? Okay, so what were the effects of that?

Just like us as string coaches, right? We know the effects of what we did. If we put a guy through a 10 by 10, heavy load, yeah, they're going to be fucked for a few days, right? Oh, coaches don't know that. Yeah, you're tending to the machine. They're tending to the strategy and the skill and all that stuff. So now, okay, let's add that to it.

Now we have some data. Now we have some meaningful data. We have speed and distance, volume and intensity, just like we have in a weight room. Now, I can talk apples to apples with my coach and say, hey, coach, total distance for this guy was this today. And their XL3, which is just basically an intensity measure based off an NBA algorithm, is this.

So that's my volume in intensity. That's sick. Now look at it like today, practice was short, but intensity was really high. So what would that look like in a weight room situation? Right. Very similar to doing cleans, doing snatches, right? Very, very fast. Relax. Right? Very similar to like doing cleans, doing snatches, right? Very, very fast, relaxed.

And so with this information, I can only assume that obviously being the coach and managing the way they play and the plays that they put together, that they're not going to necessarily change their practice, but what I would imagine is then you would change your strength training courses according to the practice. In other words, are you watching the intensity and how much to work in out and saying, okay, or do they modify their practice? Or do they modify their practice? Yeah. Some days walk through days.

The common sense thing is you would think, right? And college basketball or college sports, don't even call it college sports. String coaches are reactive. So you have to modify your training according to typically. Typically, yeah. So they're reactive. Well, if we have an understanding of what practice loads are and what our practices do to the athletes,

well now maybe we can compliment it. Right. So this is what most typical training sessions look like throughout a week for sports. All today is a high day in practice. So it's a low day in weights. Oh, hey, Corey, we're not going to go that hard today so you can crush them in the weight room. Got it. Okay. Well, holistically, what does that look like every day? It's high, high, high, high. That's right. Because if one's not high, the other one is. Exactly. But at the end of the day,

a body doesn't know if we're playing basketball, lifting weights, just sex, just no stress, right? It's stress, total stress. Sometimes good stress, sometimes that's stress, right? So our body doesn't know, right? But now, if we can compliment that, so, hey coach, you're going to gut them today? Yeah, me too. Right?

So now, what we do is, we do this system called micro dosing. So we actually train every single day of the year. So that we're in competition or playing. So in season training you typically hear, oh yeah, we'll we're maintaining our strength values, right? They'll train one to two times a week, more than likely none, but you know, they're maintaining their strength. Well, we actually trained six times a week. So we practice five days. You're just constantly modifying it. Yeah, I mean, it's a real easy and short other days a little harder and... Well, so our sessions are all geared

to only last 20 to 30 minutes. If it's any longer than that, I messed up. So it's almost like a strength primer for practice. Oh. So if we're really getting into the needy-gritty, like, all right, coach, what do you wanna do today? I want high execution. We're going to be in the half court.

So what is that going to look like if I'm a stress standpoint? Okay, well, if we're in the half court so and we're doing breakdown, so that's, you know, two on two, three on three, they're going to be creating more forces because they have space and they're in shorter, they're in a shorter surface area.

So now they're going to be able to really like jump, push, like change, like they're going to be high joint sharing forces. Right? Well, what would I do in the weight room that day to prime them for that? Probably do like trap our cleans. Probably do snatches. Do things that are very like priming for that.

And then now I'm complimenting practice, not conflicting practice. So very interesting. Now I'm not saying it's perfect, but we do our best in our planning. You know, it follows right along with what we found, training people for two decades, and we work with average people every day people,

so we're not, I can count maybe on two fingers, the amount of high level athletes that I worked, it was always average people I worked with. But what I always found was that frequency was very important. I would much rather have somebody come and see me five or six days a week and me modify the intensity and the load and the duration.

Then have someone come and see me once or twice or three days a week and just beat the crap. But the body just responds much better to that frequency of stimulation. You guys are finding the same thing. Absolutely, because look, it's our readiness testing. If I get them right before practice, and I have six dudes, they're just like, whoa, they come in,

I even make an eye contact, we ain't even joking anymore. I mean, I'm not saying it's a party, but it's a party. Like, we have fun in our way room, right? Like, to me, I'm trying to create this nostalgia, or this environment to where like, as soon as we're done, wait, boom, we're right and to practice, energy doesn't drop. But if energy sucks in that room,

in the controlled environment, where I'm playing their favorite music, where you know, there are buddy-buddy, no coaches are around, you know, they can say whatever they want, they can do whatever, if that's shitty, man, practice is gonna be a tough day. All right, so hey coach, maybe you need to modify. And of course, I'm modifying the weight room as well

in real time. So it's almost like, it's like quarterbacking it. You know, you're audibling all the time. But you know, at the end of the day though, like, you gotta get strong too, right? So there's the days where you know when to push the limits. Like, hey, we're only focusing on this one movement, that's with our microdosing session.

So our A-series are basically preparing you for human movement. Then we go into our B-series, which B is complex. Complex is life. Like, is everybody familiar? Oh, okay, the listeners are not familiar with complex. A gentleman named Isavany Vork, I forgot what yours. But anyways, it's basically a circuit with the barbell or with the dumbbell or with a kettlebell.

Okay. So it's a pattern, like for instance, here's an example of it. You would do five RDLs, five muscle cleans, five front squats, five overhead press, five rows, put the bar down. So if you think about it, that's almost every movement that you would ever do with anybody in a weight training session. Anyways, so now that's readiness testing. If I see how that bar is moving and there are warm-up sets with complex, I know what's

going on. So, for instance, they go over to that bend-over row at the end of the set and they're super high. They're like, ooh, backspinning pretty tight. Right? Or they're constantly messing around with their grip with low loads, then nervous system is probably shot. So these are the observations you're making

in real time, so that you're making alterations. And then if they look like shit and complex, more likely you're not gonna look good with heavier loads. So anything that we do in our complex will reflect what we do for now going into our C-series, the lift of the day. So for instance, if we're on a game day,

we're doing something very elastic, very reactive. You can think of jerks, snatches, barbell squat jumps, trap bar jumps, things like that, like very, very fast, right? The further away we are from competition, we're probably having our heavier practices, so we're also gonna have our heavier lifts, right? So we're gonna squat, deadlift, things

that are gonna be more damaging to the body, because once again, we're complementing stresses so that now we can wave throughout the week. So high days, then we're going down to low days, and that's our model that we're trying to achieve is a high low model. So high stresses, recover from it, super compensation, right?

That's the idea behind it. One thing you told me too, that you stress is strength training during season. Oh, yeah. Which is not, I mean, most coaches avoid strength training for the most part during the season. Can you speak about that? Yeah, it's the old thought, like, oh, if you lift weights, you're going to mess up your shot.

That's like, if you shoot that much, which you should be shooting every single day, I don't think anything is going to affect it. No matter what you do, you can get hammered and still shoot a ball. Those are going to be there. You're not going to disrupt the system that much. For us, and that's the whole purpose of the micro-dosing. I'm really glad you asked that question. Because in the beginning, it's all about practice. So now we're trying to make sure that they can practice.

Then, it's all about work capacity. So now we're able to practice great. So once again, we're looking at stress holistically, once they've adapted to practice, now we introduce a brand new stimulus, which is games. So now we have those emotional stresses, now we're traveling, now the schedule is kind of up and down, right? Because we play two to three times a week sometimes, sometimes we only play one time a week, right? So now we're constantly adapting to these new stresses

that keep adding to their bucket for the college basketball season. But once we get in conference play, it's all the same. We've already scouted these guys for a half a year. We play Thursday, Saturday, we travel every other week. Cool. And then at that point of the year, our practices are going down tremendously

because obviously you don't want to fatigue the guy. I mean, it's a seven-month season, six-month, seven-month season. So now, you know, what's the point? Like practicing harder is not going to make you better, doing film, doing skill work, all that. So now we have this huge reservoir left over of stress capacity, if you will. So now we can, well, shit, let's go get strong.

Right now it's January, February, March. We're setting PRs. So we're jumping our highest jumps. We're lifting our heaviest weights. And it's like, oh shit, yeah, maybe that's the time of the year that you want to be the strongest because you're fighting for championships, right? This is what you traditionally see.

Everybody gets cock strong in the summer and they come in the preseason. And it's like, okay, now we're in maintenance mode. I've never seen a human being maintain six months. I'm ever seen a human being maintain two hours, right? Like it's our body, our organism is two Oh, atrophy sets in real quick. For sure, but it's just such a complicated like there's the facial lines, there's just an nervous system, there's all these other dynamics that are involved in the stress of the game itself. Like everybody asks plyometrics, like Corey,

like, where do you put plyometrics into your program? They play a lot of fucking basketball. If you break down and support a basketball, those are plyometrics. Why would I do more plyometrics? I'm going to do things that help facilitate plyometrics. Maybe we'll work on mechanics, maybe we'll work on basic general strength,

explosive strength, but I'm not going to go to more plyometrics that they're already doing. And now in the day and age of college basketball, where coaches have a year round now. Back in the day, coaches couldn't touch them in the off season, it was all Cory time. But now, coaches get with them. So now they're having two hour practices,

which, you know, they're getting a lot of work in and that time, so that's another stress and they're playing open gym. Then they're going to these camps. Then they're working out their individual, like a skill coach. That's what's here around now. So what do we do, right?

So we gotta do all the things to keep them healthy. How do you monitor, when you're monitoring the athletes and figuring out, you know, monitoring them with the GPS and seeing how much they moved and how fast they've moved and how intense their workouts are? How do you then apply that to the individual athlete? Because there's always that variance, right? There's always going to be some of your athletes just have a much higher work capacity than others, either genetically or because they eat better or because they get better sleep or whatever.

How do you then monitor that as well as you just ask feedback like we would, you know, classically where you just ask the athlete or are there other metrics or things you look at? Well, my goals have safety nets for our safety nets, right, so, you know, there's the eye contact, right? Okay, you still get today, cool, right? So you're always watching.'s the eye contact, right? Okay, you still don't get today, cool, right? All right, so we're always watching.

It's always observing, but then there's, okay, now we've got force plate testing. Cool, add that on top. Now we're doing our quote unquote micro dosing, so now we're training every day, right? The goal with that training too, by the way, is to train heavier, faster, more often, because think about it, if you guys walk into a gym

and someone told you all you can do is one lift today. You're probably going to go balls out on that lift because you're like, fuck, man, I only get one. But then the next day, you're not going to feel like trash because you only did one thing. Now, once again, using common sense with volume and intensity, you shouldn't crush yourself that much. So now we get to train heavier, faster, more often. Right. So now we have load. And then if we're getting cute, now we have speeds of that load. So once again, more safety nets for our safety nets. And then of course now you add the GPS data to it. And when you're doing similar drills every day in practice and you're seeing speeds go down. You know, like, ooh, yeah, right. What do you do at that point? At that point, it's just conversation with the coach. I hate coach, man. I mean, you see it, you know I see it.

You know, balls are the past as artists, Chris. You know, balls not going in the rim as much. Guys aren't running up and down. You're going to, you're coaching effort more. There's a reason for that. And you just scale back at that point. So then it's like fatigue masks fitness. That's one of my favorite terms.

I think I got it from my man's duration. But fatigue masks fitness. A lot of people don't understand how fit you are because they're constantly fatigued So now once again having these safety nets for our safety nets Then we can understand okay, where is it coming from? You know if we're doing apples the apples were comparing certain guys in certain positions Maybe it's just their lifestyle sucks. So now it's that conversation. Hey man. Like you actually eating Like are you getting in the

substrates that you need to be able to perform? Like what's this week look like? Oh shit, it's midterm week. Oh, am we're at Stanford? Oh, that's some real shit. Like that that ain't like, you know, a Bucco community college, like it's real deal. Like these kids that stress, I mean, we have to cut back everything because we know they're staying up all night studying, they're doing it, they're putting all of their resources into their mental capacity to do whatever they need to do to pass, right, to do it, to do good work,

right? Because that's what they're there, student athlete, they're there to be a good student, you know, they don't get me wrong, I like them being good athletes too, but you know, the goal is to get a degree. I was just going say, because when dealing with college athletes, maybe it's different at this level, but college students, some of the biggest pitfalls, I can imagine are your diet, sleep, and partying. Like, how do you, do you coach to that as well? Yeah, I mean, it depends on where you're at.

You know, Stanford's not really a party school. Yeah, like, I mean- So you don't gotta worry so much about them. Not so much about that, you know, not so much about that. school. You know, like, I mean- So you don't gotta worry so much about them? Not so much about that, you know, not so much about that. And plus you can see it the next day, like, I got to the point, it's an early in my career, where I could just smell it.

Like, I could just smell my first sweat. Oh, you're a beer guy, like, you could just, mm, damn, that's a zest, like, yeah, yeah, you did some shit last night. Like I got you, okay. And then, you know, it's almost, and then this was so cool about being a strength coach is you will always have more access to the athlete

on a personal level than any of the sport coaches. Because one, you spend more time with them. Hopefully you're a decent human being so you can open up those doors. But too, you don't, you don't, you don't dictate playing time. So it's like, oh man, if I upset Cory, or if I tell Cory the real truth,

it ain't like he's gonna like dock my minutes for when I get judged. Let's risk of them getting off the road. Right. So it's like, man, they can confine in me a lot. They come to me with like, dock my minutes. I see. I get judged. Let's risk of them getting off the road. Right. So it's like, man, they can confine in me a lot. They come to me with like, I get real problems. And of course, like you got to understand the right time. And you know, sometimes you need to bring that information up

front, like to, you know, up the chain. It's like, oh, hey, this is some real shit. Like, we gotta get this thing care of. But most of the time, you can handle it in-house. And that's where you develop that trust. Like when you have that kind of conversation or you're mentoring or you're advising and you're trying to help a kid man, you get some real information and from that it beats any GPS, it beats any metric that on the planet because now you understand the dynamics that are going on outside of your world. I'm with

them for what? Two and a half, three hours a day at most. What's happening all those other hours? I don't know, right? I don't know. So if I can understand their world outside of me more, then I could easily not manipulate, so I don't like to use that word because that's not what I'm doing to them.

I'm trying to enhance their experience. Of course, you're trying to steer them in the right direction. Do you have a favorite type of athlete and a least favorite type athlete that you coach? Yeah, tell me. For sure. Okay, I used to love my weight remorier.

So the guy that is awesome in the weight room but sucks at basketball like that. Those were my guys because I'm like, dude, we're just gonna get yoked and you're gonna look awesome for warm-ups. Like, we're gonna be all team, all warm-ups. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're gonna look weird, right?

Get some of that. She spucks people up. Just, hey, man, dude, take your shootin' top off. I know you're not goin' in, but take it off. You look, yeah, like, I used to love those guys, but now, you know, because of my evolution and truly understanding what success and what, you know, what weights actually,

or resistance training, or whatever sports performance training can actually do, the more I realize, man, you know what? Wates aren't as important as I thought it was. Like, I used to think, oh, big, that's a very humbling thing for a sports performance guy I had to say, you know, I'm curious to that. I'm telling you, like, I thought bigger, faster, stronger was everything.

And then the more I realize it, I'm like, I'm curious to that. I'm telling you, like, I thought bigger, faster, stronger was everything. And then the more I realize, I'm like, I could probably have a room that doesn't have a single implement in it and do just as good of a job. Oh wow. Just as good of a job. Now, don't get me wrong. Maybe they won't look like, you know,

have great biceps and shit, but they're going to perform really, really well. Because I'm not, I'm not conflicting like their current natural state. So abruptly with resistance trading, like it'll be a longer evolution. Like now their calisthenics are going to be 100, right? Their body awareness is going to be amazing. We're going to learn how to truly sprint, load, jump. If I do all of those things, great. Now they're a better athlete, okay? If they came in like

Cocked easel then what do you do with that right? No, but if they come in really really skinny, well, they're probably still pretty good at basketball You know what I mean at the end of the day they need to be good at basketball if you see some of these NBA players Dwight Howard's they're gone. Yeah, there's guys don't exist anymore. It's long lean dudes I'm telling you if you go please if you get a chance to go to a warrior's game, okay? Just look at the legs. Yeah, I'm telling you the Storks. All right, most of these guys are Storks,

and you all turn out like Kevin and Rex. Yeah, exactly. And you wonder why the legs don't break. Well, they're okay. For the forces that they demonstrate and for the skill set that they have and all these other factors that go into it, they're gonna be all right.

But if I can just enhance their natural capacity or their capabilities without adding external resistance, you know, that gets them to a level where they're confident in themselves, confident within their own frame and their own ability. Now, yes, adding external resistance will get me there faster. But does that necessarily get me there better?

I don't know yet. I still love for debate, in my opinion. I've actually brought this up before on the show where, you know, if you took an athlete and you could snap your fingers and put, you know, even just five pounds of muscle on them instantly, what you would notice right away is they're not moving as well because they're not used to that new body. And so that slow progression maintains that because you're working with high level athletes.

You're not working with, now you train some kid who's new and never worked out, never doesn't really ever play basketball. You can push the strength and all that stuff and their skill will develop along with it. But you get someone who's really, really good and then you just put a lot of muscle on them real quick. They're moving in a completely new body.

And that slight difference in their movement is the difference between super high level and maybe not as good or not as good as they were before. So I completely understand what you're saying. Now that being said, of course, if you could do both and get them stronger and get them you sort of, but that takes time. For sure. And then really it's about like,, you know muscles are great, right? But fascial lines are cooler in my opinion. Explain. So if I had a fascially driven athlete,

that's like bambi going across the field, bing, bing, bing, or a deer, bambi, bambi, bambi, sucked. But like a deer, like when you see a deer, it's called that free energy. Their ability to put force into the ground maximally but effortlessly. That's being fashion-y-driven. If you're contractile, if you're muscular base, it's like you're using all these resources, all those contractile properties to like, get from point A to point B. So it's like you're a diesel truck, you know what I'm saying? So don't you wrong, both are cool, but one is a lot more efficient and effective than the other, especially at basketball. Absolutely, especially at a sport like basketball.

Football, totally a different story, right? Especially up front, but in basketball, oh man, especially the way it's played now, absolutely. I mean, now you got six foot 10 guards, right? You got six foot 10 dudes who are not on the block anymore, they're shooting threes, right? It's all, everybody's a guard now, right? And that six foot 10 dudes who are not on the block anymore. They're shooting threes, right? It's all, everybody's a guard now, right? And that's the way we're adapting as well.

So, mass for mass sake, isn't necessarily helping out the basketball culture, the way it's transitioning now. Days of Shacks, the days of Dwight Howard's, those days are done. For now, I mean, might come back to it one day. I mean, might be like fashion, might be. I don't know, the way we're seeing the NBA game evolve and the scoring and how high it is

I don't know if we could go back the other if you could. No, I don't know if you could unless there's some rule changes like the goal goes back to 12 foot I don't know. Yeah, it goes up to 12 foot, I should say, but like I don't know like that's a great question. Now do you do you do you watch a lot of basketball? Are you in it so much that you don't have the time for it. Okay, so glad you asked that. So I played college basketball. It wasn't necessarily the best experience. Like, it wasn't the best team experience I've ever had, right? Like, you know, I played low level basketball, you shouldn't expect much anyways. But when you see a good program and a good head coach

and a good atmosphere and a good, then you're like, oh my God, like whoa, like this is way better. So at first it was almost like this, like better, bitterness to basketball. So I was like, fuck it, like, you know, I know a lot about it, sweet, but like at that time in early in my career, I was like, I wanna go into special forces, like I wanna go,

I wanna go train those guys, cause those are, you know, they're doing some real shit, like you know what I'm saying? And then like basketball just kept peeing into the back of my head, like Corey, those are your guys. Like that's the language. That's you love that culture even like go back to it. And so from that, from ever since I was the director at Santa Clara, just down the street actually, from that point, I just, I watch NBA all the time. I watch college

all the time. And you know, my wife gets super pissed off at me. She's like, don't you see this every day? I'm like, you're 100% right. But I'm watching, I'm not even watching basketball. I'm watching movement. I'm watching the best dudes move and why they move a certain way. I'm just like, oh, man. Let's start training the outliers, not training the general.

You know what I mean? Let's look at the outliers. Don't look at them as other freaks. Look at them as, oh no, maybe we can train to that. Because I think that's a big prop or a misconception and how we train is, yeah, let's get generally strong. Let's get this, let's get that. Well, I think you're talking about it

on the last podcast where, you know, Valgus is actually not a bad thing, guys. You know, like you see that internal rotate, like, you see that internal rotate, like, when you see guys take off, like, truly take off off one foot or two, or that one, two gathering, their left foot or their leaf foot is internally rotated. It's like horizontal to the goal when they take off.

When Paul talked about that, that was like, blew my mind. For sure. Because I am this guy who can drop step dunk and running off of one foot, I get the same height. So like it was just all yeah, because I had my mechanics aren't there. And when I look at some of these NBA players, they are there. Wow. Completely. And when you watch it in slow motion, you go like, is that, is that right? Should it be that way? But it makes so much sense when he breaks down the mechanics.

Best shooters I've ever seen, valgus like you wouldn't believe. Yeah. Best shooters I've ever seen, Valkyz, like you wouldn't believe. Yeah. Best shooters I've ever seen. And it just, watch Kevin Durant. And it does that corkscrew effect. And you're just like, yep, he just got really, really good at it. Now the problem is, how would you teach that to someone that doesn't do that? Because that might not be, yeah, I was just gonna say that.

Yeah, that, that's special, right? That's special, that's repetition, that's genetics, that's a lot of things. I don't know if you can necessarily teach because to me that, that's more on the skill, like sport-specific skill. So in my role as a strength coach, like it's more of, you know, obviously just training

athleticism and then hopefully that enhances their already ability, right? That go over to skill. Now something I'm very interested in is going into that skill development, right? But in college sports, I came and have a basketball on my hand, it's a violation. Like, oh shit, I didn't know that. That my hand. It's a violation. Like, oh shit.

No, I didn't know that. That came in passable to a kid. What? Oh, that's hilarious. Well, the reason for that, and it makes a lot of sense, because at first I'm like, this ball. Oh, yeah, a med ball, yeah, absolutely. Not a bad ball.

I was just hacked the system. Right, it's just a girl's ball. Maybe that could work. But the reality is, like a lot of sport coaches won't value strength as much as others. So what would they do with that strength coach position? I'm just gonna hire another assistant. Oh, I see.

Right, and so now he's got an extra coach opposed to someone to help a kid, be resilient, be durable. Oh, I'm a 10-man, hopefully, you know, X, Y, Z. So, you know, it makes a lot of sense. Now from a guy who hoops, like, it's like, oh my God, it's rolling to me. It's right there, like, yeah.

But, you know, just, just don't do it. What's one of the, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see with, with strength coaches now when they're training? Well, let's do this. When they're training kids, younger kids, high school, and when they get up to your level and higher. Load.

Just too much. A lot. A lot. younger kids high school and when they get up to your level and hire. Load. Just too much. Much. Load. Yeah. Too much load. I mean, it's, look, they always get the, I get a lot of conversations with these quote unquote performance coaches at the high school level that, you know, they're in,

they're with my guy because they're coming to Stanford. And, you know, they want to connect with me and they want to say, hey, you know, this is what I've been doing with with them and at 99.9% of the conversation. I'm like stop doing that like push ups dips pull ups step-ups body weight squats side lunges skipping rope do that Not but I got to get him ready. I will get him ready. Like, don't break him before he gets here. Right. And so then, you know, I got, they got to love you for that one. Oh, for sure. But then I get like, oh, yeah, but he can clean though a word. Like, let me see this shit.

I'll be the judge that. And so that's where I'm like, hey, man, you know what? It's not important. And that's where, I don't know, maybe that's like kind of subconsciously in the back of my head where I went with this regressed approach around the past like three years, is the more, and that's why I'm like so active on social media with my Instagram is I'm putting out so much like regression exercises because I'm like,

yo, do that with the younger kids. Like because I don't want you bringing those fucked up kids to me anymore. You know, like, right, because they come in broke, man, broke. And then on top of that, on top of that technique and compets, story patterns and all this, you're just, that's what I mean.

When I come in, they don't come in at zero, they come in at like negative two, negative three. Can you speak upon in terms of like specialization? Because I know that became very popular amongst parents even and they've been preached. Like you need to get your kid into that one sport and have him go year round and get really good at that. And in terms of like the ideal situation of how you would

prefer like a young athlete to go through that process. So if I can make like a, is it a PTA announcement or a PSA announcement? Yes, exactly. And put you on a soap botter. Yes, sir. Yeah, I stop doing that shit. Like, just don't put your kids into one sport

at an early age. It's not making them better. They're not going to earn that scholarship anymore. I'm telling you right now, if you haven't been identified by the eighth grade, you're probably not going to get that division one scholarship. Period, right? Absolutely. And the eighth grade, you're probably not gonna get that division once college it, period. And it's not that you're identified from a skill set standpoint, right?

Like you're identified based off, man, that dude's got really long arms. That dude's got like the anthert or the body type to be able, and he's well coordinated and he's able to shoot the ball a little bit. Like we can get him better at that. And then he'll evolve when he's playing in more specialized like AAU circuits and stuff like that.

So they're looking at things that you can't coach at an early age. So I'm sorry, but if you're five foot, why dude, who has no bounce, stop it. I'm not saying stop your dream. Train is hard as you can. Do whatever you think you gotta do to make it to the next level,

but it just sticking yourself in that I won sport is going to wreck you before it makes you better. An interesting study done at the Olympic training center when I was there, they asked all the residential athletes how many sports they played in high school. The average was four or five. Wow.

Which I'm sitting there like, these little specialized athletes on the most specialized. Right. So you're telling me your kid playing basketball year around like that's going to get in there? No, make them really good athletes. Give them a huge reserve or a huge toolbox to be successful within their sport, right? And I mean look great examples Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, great soccer players.

Really really good soccer players. A lot of dudes are good football players, you know? And that's where I'm like hey guys like the early specialization, I get it, trust me. But, and that's another thing too, like I think it's crazy with parents, is they think everyone's gonna get a division, one scholarship, and they don't have to pay for college for their kids. I think it's all these selfish reasons to be honest with you.

But, like, just let the kids play, let them go into directions, and from that perspective, I think you're gonna have a better end product if that's the goal. There's also just the risk of injury. I mean, when you're doing the same sport, and that's all you do all the time, it's the same movements over and over and over again. So you increase of increasing risk of muscle

and balances, you're increasing risk of overuse injuries. I mean, if you're always throwing a baseball, you're always pitching a baseball. There's only so many reps. You know, your elbow and your shoulder, right? Are you gonna get all this wear and tear throughout all these formidable years versus when you put a kid in multiple sports?

Now there's different movement patterns. There's their bodies moving. And so they don't develop the risk of developing injuries or imbalances is much, much lower. I trained, I remember I had this one, this high school baseball athlete who all he ever did was play baseball and he had a wicked fastball. But when I would train him, the difference between his right and left side was so pronounced, it was almost as if his spine had twisted a little bit to compensate because he had

done it since he was such a young kid that could and that was a problem that became a big problem for him as he got into college like all I did is when I trained him was try to get his other side to catch up so we didn't hurt himself that might not have happened had he played lots of different sports I think that's the biggest selling point that when I tell parents like look you're gonna your kids gonna get hurt they keep playing the same sport and that's all they play. They're doing the same movements all the time. You're just asking for trouble.

And then forget, you know, getting into a division one college, if they hurt. Well, like I was saying earlier, when I first get my kid in, I mean, we're in a wrestling room. We're not in the weight room. We're not on the basketball court. Like, we're in a wrestling room.

Why? Because that's the best human capacity. Like that being able to push and pull, being able to crawl, being able to floor to standing transitions, because I have to go that far down the line of childhood development because they've lost it.

They've lost it because they're early specialization. And to me, if I didn't have to do that, man, I could do some really cool shit. I can, I mean, 100% I could, yeah, you want seven inch verticals, great. Let's do all that. But that's not my job. Like an current strength conditioning role

that's not your job, your job is to make them as durable and resilient to stress and injury as possible. Performance, that's not the window. Like, it's further down the line. Because now you're just, they didn't come there to jump higher. They came there to play basketball. Right.

And, you know, who's to say there's a direct correlation to better basketball with higher verticals? You know, I don't know if there is there one. I don't know if that exists. Now, being able to be more athletic, maybe. But what I've seen is my most athletic dudes coming in, raw, they're probably the worst shooters I've had too, because they can't control that kind of power

that they're creating. So there's so many factors or layers to it. And that's so fun about the job. It's always evolving. You're never gonna truly figure it out. You're gonna find a lot of things that are common And then you just drift towards those but you're going to have those outliers and you're going to learn so much more about You know being a coach now for young guys and girls that are aspiring to be coaches like yourself

What are some of your favorite Education tools or certifications? I saw you posted on FRC not that long ago, which we talk a lot about. I think Justin's told me too that you're even into animal flow. What are some of the best certifications or pieces of education for coaches to research? Well, FRC was very important

because FRC came out of time where I was kind of like over certifications. So I was like, yeah, certifications I'm done with. I just need to go see brilliant people and learn from them. But when FRC came through, I was like, oh, this is something that actually gets me excited, but it also makes sense. It's based off of what, 50 years of isometric research.

Just applied a different way, brilliant. Great job, Andrew Spina, you know, or Dr. Andrew Spina, I should say. But my best resources, like with all the tumbling, the level gymnastics, the Jiu-Jitsu, I mean, the tumbling stuff, there was a cheerleader that I was hooking up with at the time. Yeah, it's like, it's level gymnastics, like,

you know how to tumble, you know how to roll it, like, so I was like, can you show me? Yeah, okay, I'm gonna do this in my eyes. Good moves. Nice to meet you. Hey, yeah, yeah. I need to be able to see your biomechanics, which might be taking me off. Yeah.. Like, hey. You know, I need to be able to see your biomechanics if you mind taking them off.

So yeah, it worked out really well. And then I never thought I'd say this, like if the listeners can understand real quick, athletic trainers and string coaches, there's generally a budding of heads. Yeah, it shouldn't be that way, but there's like this weird, like, like I know that for the-

It's like a weird rivalry, yeah. It's a weird rivalry, but you know, fortunately in my career, I've never had to experience that. I've had great athletic trainers and we, I mean, it's all about collaboration. Like if you're really trying to get, if it's really for the athlete, you have great collaboration. But I hear horror stories all the time, you know,

about like there's always conflicting telling one athlete one thing and undermining each other. But anyways, there's this's the director of sports medicine at Stanford, his name's Aiton Gelber. I've never thought I'd say this about athletic training, but he's probably the most bad asthma-al-fucker I've ever met in my life. I mean, this dude, jujitsu guy, is really special forces. He was just a bad asthma-al-fucker back in his day. And I heard about him coming out here.

And so I immediately gravitate to him, I'm like, hey, I just want to learn from you. Like this guy's got sub disciplines and everything under the sun. Like internationally renowned. And so he takes me into the wrestling room. Obviously beats shit out of me, but I learned so much from just the partner training aspect

that just opened up my mind. So as far as like the learning, don't you wrong, go get your certifications. Just because you have a lot of alphabets behind your name does not make you a better string coach. Period. I can't emphasize that enough, but seeking out brilliant people, developing great relationships with them. Apprentice ships, man.

That's going to be one of the best things you can possibly do. If I didn't have a mentor, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. You know, so I mean, any type of public, anything that I do, I always give credit to Jonas Siration. I mean, if it wasn't for that man, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. You know, but if, getting into the field, get a mentor, ASAP. Get your certifications that you need to be successful in the field, get a mentor, ASAP.

Get your certifications that you need to be successful in the field, okay? And then after that, seek out brilliant people and just go to them. Like, yes, you can go to conferences, but it's an hour block that you're not gonna learn that much. But Ghosts been a weekend with them. Ghosts been a week with them.

Just totally engulf yourself into the world and then you truly understand, you know, what you're trying to get out of that experience. Yeah, I feel like offering free work, like, hey, I'll do anything, work for you, whatever, just let me follow you around and watch you. I feel like you'll learn so much more doing that than if you, what you could learn through any book.

Absolutely. And this field right now is so oversaturated, like especially in the strength market. Really? Oh, I have 32 year old men doing free internships. Oh wow. So it's tough to crack in. I mean, it's unreal,

but that's the only way to get in. You know, you gotta do your internships. You gotta do your voluntary work. You gotta, which 100% should be the way, but this field is so oversaturated. I mean, you got grown-ass men coming in, got family and kids, and they're trying to make it. And it's, oh shit, man, this field.

I came in right as the bubble was bursting. Like, I literally couldn't have timed it any better. But, and I was fast-tracked because I was a lucky son of the pitch, number one, but number two, I just knew the right people at the right time. It's a tough field because, or area of, I guess, strength because a lot of people want to be able to do what you're doing. You get to work with top level athletes.

You get to work in a prestigious university. It sounds like a lot of fun. And so what we communicate all the time on the show is, you know, aspire for that. That's great, but there are other aspects of the fitness space that you can enter into, for example, correctional exercise of the people in advanced age. That's not a saturated market, and that's a growing and exploding market, and that's also one that you could succeed in. But your space is fun. It's fun, but I think we're the most effect, or the best place to infiltrate, so that we don't have these problems

anymore, especially in college. I wish I had guys in middle school and high school. There needs to be an exploding market in that space. I agree with that. We were just talking before you got here about it. I think we're going to see a major backlash. I think just this whole new introduction of, you know, iPhones and iPads and sitting down and like staring at computer screens or video games, I mean, all of us were too, we weren't born with that.

Sure, there was Atari and shit when I was a kid, but you still were outside playing 90% of the time. What happened to monkey bars? Right. Right. It's dangerous. Right. We had these pull up bars in our wrestling room and I was just like, all right guys, we're just gonna swing from left side to right side.

What the fuck is that? Yeah. What do you mean? Well, this is what kids used to do. Right. So for shoulder health and integrity and this is why we're doing it. Okay, can't even make it.

Grip strength sucks. Right, can't even maintain that overhead position because Why would they even be there? Right? It makes a lot of it makes me wonder what a different Bro, I'm gonna see a You're gonna be so different to see a major backlash in the next decade I truly believe this because we're just now you're just now getting them You know, I'm saying like you now are dealing with these 17 to 20 year old kind of age group,

which are, you know, for the most part, most of them have dealt with Facebook and Instagram and the phones and their hands all day long. Yeah, about five to 10 years from now, it's been so much worse. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's the fact. I mean, it's like, we, I would like to see it go back

to the pen and paper age, you know, where kids actually had to learn how to write and read. You know, I mean, I'm not with a screen, you know? Like, evidently, there's a new way to do math, like what the fuck happened? Like, I had no idea there's a new way to do the dishes, subtraction. I was like, what is that? Like, I have no idea what that is.

I know what you mean, there's a new way. Oh, it's totally different. My third grade daughter will bring me homework and she's like, that's not how you do it. I'm like, but I'm getting the answer. I don't understand, but it's learn a new way. Oh, it's totally different. My third grade daughter will bring me a homework and she's like, that's not how you do it. I'm like, yeah. But I'm getting the answer. I don't understand, but it's a whole new way. We have to prove it all the way through.

For what they call it? Yeah, core math or. Yeah, I'm oblivious to it. There's a new way to do math evidently and I had no clue. But I had no idea. I'd do the party. Apparently, if you learn this way, then later on,

it's easier for you to do math in your head and all that stuff and they have studies to prove it, but as a parent, when you're third and fourth the fifth grader brings your homework, you're like, I don't even know what to fuck to do. I can't help you. Thank God we got Google. I know.

Google that shit, you know? Right, right, right, right. No, it's hilarious. Could you imagine actually telling a kid to go to the library, find the book, yeah, do the research on the book, then put the book back. I don't think they could do that shit. I honestly don't think that could happen.

No, I think what we're going to see is what we saw similar with adults where gyms exploded and became popular and people had to start scheduling workout time because everyday life was no longer a workout or active for adults. Now children didn't follow this path for a long time. Kids always played outside until recently. Now kids day-to-day life involves almost no activity. In fact, when I punished my kids,

I make them go outside. It's totally opposite from when I was a kid. I'm amazing, dad. When I got punished, I had to be inside, right? Right, right. So it's just the way it is now. And so what I think you're gonna see is an explosion of organized exercise for children the same way we've seen it with adults where you have to actually schedule it and make

it, it just doesn't happen naturally like it used to. I mean, go outside, walk around outside, see how many kids you see playing outside. It just doesn't look the way it used to. So it's gonna be fascinating to talk to you like five years from now. Right. And what kind of problems you're gonna see with the kids. Well, it explains why he's already having to do that with coaches where it's like, no, stop doing all that. Just jump some f**king rope, do some pull ups,

do some basic body weight movements because of that. Cause I'm sure that's, they're already broken. Like you said, you're minus three when they're coming into use. And there's a little bit of a self-selection bias cause you're getting athletes. Right're coming into use. And there's a little bit of a self-selection bias because you're getting athletes. Right.

Right. Right. Yeah. And that's what's, it's got to come from the top though. I mean, it's got to come from Western society. Like, it's got to say, hey, you know, in kindergarten, they can play all the way to the fifth grade. They can play. Like, let's get them outside and involved in anything.

But because of, you know, no child left behind, the busher, all of a sudden, now everyone is average, right? Smart kids coming down, dumb kids coming up a little bit, and now there's no arts, there's no science, there's no more sciences, there's no physical education. Great, now all that shit's optional. Wait, think about, I forgot what school in California.

It was the 60s I want to say. Maybe it's a day of the sun or something like that. But their major mission was physical, competency or physical education. And they had, within two years, they had the highest, highest test scores in state and the most kids to go to college.

And I'm sitting there like, what happened guys? Like they already did it for us. They already rolled out the model. Like, man, you wonder where ADHD and all that comes from? Does it come from sitting? Yeah. I, you know, and I'm just like, oh man, there's little bastard kids.

They can't sit still for six hours during the day. Fuck, I can't eat it. I can never do that. And then you feed them fucking corn dogs, that's a whole other story. Like, yeah. I can't either. I can never do that. And then you feed them fucking corn dogs, which, that's a whole nother story, like. Yeah. So yeah, that's, I think it's gotta come from the top. Yeah.

And people forget that movement is facilitated by the brain. Yes. So when you move your body, you're developing neurons and neural connections in the brain, and it helps facilitate other types of learning same thing with music, lights up the whole brain. So it's not a, like here's the intellectual stuff and here's the physical stuff that is dumb.

It's all created. Right, here's your jocks, here's your intellects. Yeah, no, no, it all goes together. Yeah, yeah, no, I think I agree with Adam. We're gonna start to see a little bit of a pendulum swing in the opposite direction. It just happened so fast, that's all. It's just happened so fast.

We didn't know what the consequences were. We're going to start seeing some of those consequences. But the question is, who's going to capitalize on it? We'll see. Kids, Jim. You made a guy's business. Yeah. We're all part-nurn-up here. My pump for kids. My wheels are coming. My wheels are coming.

People have been asking for that for a long time, actually. We get a lot of people that want my pump for kids. Well, that's one of my biggest goals is getting involved with Team USA in some form or fashion. Because you know, you have these youth, yeah, you 12, you 15, you 18, you know, whatever. Well, do they have any physical competency tests? Like do they have any check boxes to say along the way?

Like at you 13, you should be able to do this. X-quins, yeah. Right? So like what happened to that? You know, you see in other programs across the world that you don't see here in the states with one of our best sports. Do they even still do the presidential physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical

physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical physical I haven't seen they're not old enough yet. I was doing that early. Yeah, I was doing that first grade.

Yeah, I was doing that elementary through middle. I don't pull us. The last time I did it was my freshman year in high school. Yeah, I think they either eliminated it or like third, sixth through six. Yeah, no, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. I'm an Arnold back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Back in the white. Bring the terminator. So because you're with these, you know, super athletes are on their way to be super athletes. What do you see like in professional sports, how basketball is evolving? What do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, I mean, it's so cool to hear you do in the GPS thing because it's so fun. I just heard them talking about that with the lawyers and I'm like, oh, shit.

I don't know. They were doing that. And I didn't realize how few of teams are. I mean, I'm assuming that's one of the things, like what else do you see as far as the professional sports evolving in your arena? You know, things that I want, and that might not be there yet,

but I see it in like high end athletes, is I think we should make blood testing mandatory. Oh, for what? So just looking at basic biomarkers, right? And then having really brilliant people interpret them. And I know I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with your general physician, but their understandings of biomarkers and how they affect one another is ugly.

They know disease. Exactly. Especially in correlation to an athlete, right? You're looking for performance. So if you guys want a great resource, look at Dr. James Laval. He wrote this book called The Metabolic Code. Probably one of the, I actually hired him to do my own blood work.

Really? Oh, yeah. And he based out of here, is he close by? Now he's that close by, so you actually go and get your blood done somewhere local and then sent to him. He does the interpretation. He wrote me up like a 28 page like a really blood marker or like based off his interpretations of it Not like not not norms not none of this not a quarries this, you know high and athlete if you will

But he's trying to do yeah, there it is But yeah, he's I mean he's absolutely broke now What kind of markers you looking at just general nutrient values? So like the micronutrient deficiencies is a huge one. And then obviously, people don't realize how big that is because you can take supplements all day long, but if you're lacking a micronutrient

and you supplement with it, it's night and day. It's like you're completely different human. Well, you're just guessing. Yeah, there's a lot of guess work into it. So you just got a lot of expensive piss, right? Okay. And so that's where you gotta look at hormonal panels, like for instance, certain guys that you think

wouldn't have low test, have low test, and you're just sitting there like, damn, how does he have low test, all right? But maybe his adrenals were screwed up. So now he's suppressing all that. So that's where, okay, that's because of training. And you can see how this should go into basketball or sports.

We were doing it maybe four to five times a year and you're just checking and seeing how the effects of training because no one just goes, oh, I got cancer. You know, that is evolved over time because your blood's been shit for all these years. Yeah, see, we have, and this is just for the layman, a little easier, maybe less expensive way of doing it, we work with the sponsor,

everly well, that makes these at home. Hormone tests and kits, right? And they're really inexpensive. And one thing that I've recommended to our audience is test yourself several times a year so you could see how your diet and your training affects your hormones and you start to figure out where your baseline, oh, my testosterone goes up

when I do this or it goes down when I do this, or look at my estrogen to progesterone level type of deal. I think what you're saying is absolutely right. The end date can test themselves and monitor. That would be absolutely brilliant. I mean, for me, that's like, okay, you wonder where all these moods come from, right, guys, they're like, always sick.

And then because, oh man, the weather changes. No, man, it's because they're not putting the right stuff into their system. Now, information is power. Give them that information. Now you could put them down the right path and actually supply them the right materials so they can be a more resilient human being.

I could do all the training in the world with them. But if you're bloodshed, you're bloodshed. Like, I can't help you. I can't help you, Pat. How did you, what did you see about your, if you don't mind me asking? What did you see about yours? And then how did you change your diet?

A low testosterone and super low in ferritin. Oh wow. So yeah, like a low testosterone because he's asking, how do you train? I'm like, well, I train like a douchey body builder so like five to six times a week. And I just rip, like I'm like, oh, just a back goal, you know, I'm like that guy.

And then of course, I'm always tinkering on myself. So I'm like, yeah, let's try like, you try like a 500 pound eccentric back squat today to do it. Yeah, like, okay. So I'm always wrecking myself. And so once again, that was the example I used earlier. My adrenals were just, and your iron levels were low. Did you have to, so you started supplementing with iron or change your diet? So, well, also around that time, I was like,

yeah, the carnivore diet, duh, do that. Like, just eat red meat. And that's when he's like, yo, Corey, chill. I like where you're going with this, but that's for people who aren't doing shit. You are training at a different level, like carbs, like get that into your system. I'm like, oh, okay.

And then he sends me like a slew of supplements, but you know, like it's, I was actually a good blood panel. Now, I have another individual that I know very well who got a bad, like his results were like, oh, you got tumors growing in your system properly. Oh, wow. Like you got some real shit, and this show I'm in 31 years old.

Wow. And I was sitting there like, it's a 31 year old active male. And it's like very active male. Very brilliant male. And I was sitting there like, oh shit, like dude, you could have not been with us by 50.

Poor diet? What was it? Is lifestyle? Yeah. Lifestyle was one, like, but it's work environment. Super stressed all the time. You know, working his ass off. He's also doing, like, I think he's getting his doctorate as well.

So I mean, like, dude's burning a candle on both ends. And yeah, so that's where you're like, geez man. Did you see your testosterone levels change as you reduced the intensity and so it really just took a few days out? I was like, dude, just like, wow. He's like, Corey, do you do any cardio whatsoever? I'm like, what the fuck is that?

Like cardio, like, no, man, it's, no. I just lift weights faster. Exactly, he's like, dude, let's do more reps, right? He's like, no, dude, like, go for a walk. He's like, just do some, just go for a walk. It's all I ask you to do, like, go for a walk. I'm like, okay, I can do that. And then you know, that's when I was like,

okay, you know what, I'm gonna be super fit. So I started playing basketball again, and now I'm fucked, so thanks, Dr. J. Now I'm sitting up, so my next consultation better be free. But now he's a... No, he's gonna be asshole, I told you to walk, now play basketball.

And back to the... Back to the... So you see blood testing being something in the future that's been really better. I think it's gonna be much more accepted. There's a great company called Inside Tracker. It does the same thing. It's all web based.

So you go to a local site, they take your blood and they post all your results on a web. And all their stuff is based off a sports nutrition research period. It ain't norms and none of that. It's all sport related. And so the recommendations are based off all those meta-analysis, not just one or two studies or anything.

I mean, like thousands and thousands of research articles. That's where it's like, okay, you should eat more of this, stop eating more of it. And then you see your blood panel changes. We did that with a particular athlete last year, and we saw low magnesium. Well, he's a very contractile athlete. He needs magnesium. Why does he have that like low magnesium? Well, he eats like a cheerleader.

Wow, like we need to get him just food. Right. And obviously the right kinds of food. So then he was able to rebound from that and be just fine. And it's like, what if we didn't have that? Yeah, and what a difference you know. And sucks because if you don't know that, you just generally feel like something's off, right?

Or just general fatigue. And that's where like, look, I know it's important, but I go outside and hire brilliant people to tell me what's what, right? And I learned from them, but I'm not, me, it's not like a blood expert. So with anything that I do, like, look, I'm an expert with picking up stuff, putting stuff down with my athlete population, right? Great. But, and that's one thing I think everybody's trying to be this savant with all of human performance. And it's like, yes, you need to understand everything.

But if you want to do it the highest level consult, like, don't be afraid to pay some money. Like, find the best in the world of what they do. And that's my overlying philosophy, not only in life, but like especially in my practice, is find the best in the world of what they do, and find a practical way to apply it to my population. Excellent.

So, 100-meter spinners are probably the fastest people in the world, right? Okay, blood experts, Dr. Valle, probably best in the world. Okay, I'm gonna listen to those guys, and I'm gonna learn from them, and I'm gonna find a way to do it with my Dress with clowns. I would have to say I would have to say the best combination for an amazing coach would be being able to Find metrics and read them or have people can read them that are objective and have a level of intuition that allows you to apply

Those things that's the that's the the best combination I can think of but the objective metrics are so important We did it recently with, again, with our hormone tests from Everly Well and found that my testosterone levels will, they look normal, but I know I didn't feel like I normally do. So I change a few things. All of a sudden I started feeling

that myself got tested. Oh, it's way up here that must be my, where I'm supposed to be at. But that intuitive aspect of it, of being a coach, that's something that's hard to learn. I think that's more from... You gotta learn through a lot of failures. Yeah, yeah.

Like you can look at your athletes and get an idea of where to look. Right, it's the point. For sure. And I think that's one thing is a string coach. Like, and now I'm finally, I'm finally casing point where if you don't have battle scars, like you don't know what limits are.

You know what I mean? And I'm not saying I'm like, because I'm banged up right now because I stepped on someone's foot. Like I now have battlescars, but like you got to put yourself in the whole heart to understand what even in the whole feels like. Right? So, and I'm not saying you got to wreck yourself.

Like don't be stupid, right? Don't do jerks over your head with 120 max and then try to land it on your neck. You're like, I'm not saying crazy things, but like as a coach, you're constantly putting yourself to the test and experimenting on yourself just so you can know what's the most practical way to apply it safely to your athlete.

It adds intuition. Yeah, it really does. And that gives you, yes, and exactly, that's what gives you that intuition because man, I know what that feels like. I know what that looks like. Right. It's important to know their mental space. I mean, I tell you what, I mean, I'm not an athlete and I tear my Achilles and I see what it did to me mentally. I can't imagine if I was playing a competitive sport, how much that would fuck with my head and like, to get up every morning

to do the little tedious things that I know I need to do to rehab this. I think it's important for you to know that. Let's talk a little bit about the season, right? The season started. Yeah. What do you think about the team right now? How you feeling about your guys' start? What do you think? We're super young, but we're playing a very fun style of basketball.

So it's very much like a Golden State Warriors Houston Rockets, you know, we don't have, we run small. I mean, we have a big lineup, but we run small mainly. Um, so it's a lot of pick and pop threes. It's a lot of ball screen offense. So, and then, um, on defense, I think it's more of an attack defense opposed to, you know, you're just preventing them from scoring. No, it's more of like a, you're trying to, um, aggressive, trap, yeah, things like that. Yeah. So like you're almost put, um, get all things like that.

So you're almost enforcing your will on them and getting them out of their sets more so than just, okay, reacting to what they do. So you're more being the provocateur, if you will. What do you think about the four freshmen over at Duke right now? Have you seen them play? Have you watched much? It's a protein, right?

Wouldn't they be able to beat some of the proteins? It's, I mean, No, but they're impressive. Good God, they're impressive. Very impressive group of young men. It'll be very interesting to see, it's almost like the FAB 4, if you will. I think it's the closest thing to that since then. The Carolina teams back in 2005, 2009 had a similar feeling, but this is, it's different.

Yeah, like, it's different. No, what do they put, they put like 30 on Kentucky the other night? It was just ridiculous. I mean, stupid. We had one of our athletes actually transferred to Kentucky last year, and we were just sitting there like,

I mean, no one could stop it. Like, I mean, Zion is a freak, man. I mean, he's 280 pounds and moving like a gazelle. 280? Yes. Yeah, and so that's where I was like, I'm a human, Patrick, right? Yeah, we were talking, or on his podcast, like Fat Don't Fly,

and I was sitting there like, from that motherfucker, that's not what I mean sitting there like my that motherfucker He ain't that lame and he's flying but like once again, that's like the gravity He's a freak. Yeah, like do you imagine if he was like below 10. Yeah, I mean You know, like I mean that's probably what's gonna happen by time he gets to pros I'm sure so I'm tighten the diet up even more and he'll just improve like sure god It's gonna be crazy to see now Do you have a favorite NBA teams that you follow?

Man, you know, I'm more of a player guy. Okay, I like favorite players So who are some of your favorite players right now? Well Russell Westbrook by far. Oh, you like the worker, huh? Yes, I like nobody nobody what nobody plays harder than that guy. I mean, the passion he has, and of course, just the raw athleticism, the dudes are free. Yeah, and so it's fun to see guards play like that. I mean, he's a point guard, so it's fun to see point guards I can play above the rim like that.

I was just having this conversation with someone the other day that, everybody, of course, we always compared a Jordan. Everybody compares everything to Jordan. And, you know, everyone talks about LeBron and him. I think that no one has played with the intensity that Jordan played during his era since Russell West. I think Russell Westbrook is the closest thing to that level of intensity into the game. Maybe they're different players and they play differently and obviously have had different success.

But Westbrook brings this on a basic exhibition game. It looks like it's a fucking playoff or a championship game every single day. I mean, like the best way to describe him is it's violent. Yeah. Like, you know, his movements are violent. And that's what I, that's the like one of my cues I use in my athletes all the time. Like, move it violently. Like, be violent. Like, because that's, that's the, if you want to be an athlete, like you just want to

get better athletic qualities, look at Russell Westbrook. That's the guy you wanna be. I mean, so it's funny you pick your step. He's like one of my least favorite players. Oh yeah. So I'm the fashionista. Well, I like to see, I'm a team guy,

and I think that's because I wasn't athletic, because I relied on the screen the picking roll Exactly I love the spurs I love watching the spurs play during the that that whole era I'm gonna John Wood I absolutely love the warriors because I love the the chemistry and seeing these guys come together and play like that So well for me like and it's a lot of my immaturity when I was young, but I was super flashy. I just cared. Oos and Oos more than assist a turnover ratio. Yeah, I'm saying.

I love the amount. I mean, that's the reason why I started playing basketball. So I thought that shit was so cool. And then Iverson, and then I was like, oh, man, how'd Iverson? And that was my god. He's crazy flat. He doesn't play him on the road.

I can be that. So I got excited about it. And then Russell Westbrook comes along and I'm sitting there like, oh my God, he's super Iverson. You know what I mean? Like, he can just play by the rim. The question is, you know, can he win? Is he gonna win?

Are they ever gonna put some guys around him that they can all play together? I don't think it's gonna be any time soon. No, I don't think it's gonna be this year. Who the fuck's gonna stop the Warriors, man? I think he's gotta go. Like I think maybe Westbrook's gotta go somewhere maybe. I don't know, but I got a good friend

who actually works on the staff. Oh really? And so he's very, very, very brilliant young man that just transitioned from like an intern role to, I mean, he's like garden Westbrook in practice, like during individuals. Oh, no shit. I'm like, dude, like, how you situate yourself into that

is amazing, but you used to play one on one against each other all the time, and I'm sitting there like, so like, I kind of played Westbrook one on one, since I played you one on one. Like, that's how I'm like, just fine with it. That's how I said, well, since you did, and me and you used to, so yeah, that works, right?

No, but. Now, are you a talent acquisition guy or do you believe in like leadership in the organization like when you look at an MBA or college? MBA. Okay, college talent, talent 100%. Now, you got, you got to have, for longevity, you got to have, you got to have leaders. Like the talent is obviously, you gotta have leaders.

The talent is obviously what you need to win. Okay, go agree here. But to win long term, right? You gotta have those leaders in place. And that's where like examples of my past, like one of our UAB teams, beat Carolina. Oh, sure. But we made fourth in conference that year.

Right, so if you have the talent, but if you don't have the leadership, the maturity, the all the other things that go along to winning, long term, it doesn't matter. No, I agree. In college, in college, I see talent acquisition, because in college, it is. You can go out, recruit five of the most athletic freaks

in the country at the time, and you have a huge advantage. You might not have to be a good coach, and you can still win. Exactly, but you get to the professional level. Everybody a huge advantage. You might not have to be a good coach and you can still win. Exactly. But you get to the professional level. Everybody's a freak. Everybody's the most talented. You know what I'm saying? So at that point, I think leadership organization

becomes Trump's best. Absolutely. And from what I understand, the OKC organization is one of the best. Oh really? From it's a young owner or young GM, very like he, I think he likes to pride himself like kind of like an innovator,

kind of like the Silicon Valley feel. Like I think that's how he, I should not say, it describes himself, but when you have guys like that, and like Philly too, like Philly Delphi got Todd Wright, who's a 76er string

coach. They're bringing in all these other, she's got followers, guys. What's up? Didn't they just pick a butler? Didn't butler go butlers now with six years with that, that might be some legit stuff. But I look at that kind of the same as LeBron going to Lakers, like he's surrounded himself with young talent. Yeah. So that could, that could go bust real quick too. Yeah. Butlers an animal, I like him. Yeah, I know a lot. No, no, for sure. That's correct. I definitely think that it's leadership, dude, for sure.

I think leadership at that level, because you're dealing so much with the ego of all of these guys, because you made it. You made it to the league. You made it. Who the fuck's gonna tell me otherwise? Well, that is like, well, my under armor deals this, what? Yeah, you know, like I'm making multi-millions on you.

Like, it doesn't, like, no. So, what do you think about, you know, college athletes making money? Do you think they, yeah, let's talk about that. Let's, yeah, we have to go ahead and also college for the boy. Let's talk about playoff. Yeah, versus, yeah, this is like, the biggest things debated in college sports is should we pay these athletes or should we not?

God, you guys are such assholes. Yes, I'm not. You're the guy I want to talk to about this stuff. Okay. Yes, short answer yes. Okay. Long answer if it pays me less, no. Uh, but I mean, short answer yes. yes. I think so. Absolutely. But there's so many

asterisks to that. For instance, how do you know how much to pay? Right. Does certain universities get more? Because of more of like forensic, like a blue blood program because they make more money. Right. So now they the kid gets more exposure. So he gets paid for more time on TV and more Jersey sales and more of this. Right. So now what happens to recruiting? Now kids don't go to the universities that they want or get the education that they're really looking, they're going to the place that they're going to make the most money.

So it's not even college basketball anymore. It's not even amateurism. It's pros. Right. So how do you do that? Okay. Well now let's pay everybody evenly. Well, how does that work?

Right. So I think there's a lot of holes in that too. And it can't be that much. So that's where it's going to be an interesting way of figuring that out. What I really think should happen is the G-League step up. Like the G-League starts paying these guys to stay at home, opposed to going overseas. Like the G-League becomes a true minor league system or like a farm system, just like you see in baseball. Baseball as a family. So that's where like, okay, if a kid chooses not to go to college, go into the G-League

because you've been identified because of your talent, go boom, easy. Great. And then keep the amateurism in college. But then again, I'm coming from a situation where this is how I feed my family too. Right. So like I'm like, shit, don't threaten that. Yeah. Now, as you see enrollments drop and all that, and they might just go straight to the minor leagues.

Now, as an outsider, I don't know. And so again, this is why I like talking to someone like you, but I have to believe that it fucking happens anyways. Like it's still going on. Yeah, okay. So, players being played, I'll say this, 100% it's all going down. Like what's being investigated right now is not even the snowflake on top of the iceberg. Wow.

The tip of the iceberg. Like it's getting, but I'm so upset that it's only being seen in basketball. Football come on. And you're telling me football shouldn't be on this platform as well or on this stage? Come on, you know those kids are getting broken off. Yeah, I'm like, so that's where I'm like,

I think it's a little unfair that they're pointing all this at basketball once again, a little bias because I'm in it, but 100% man, like it's going around everywhere, everywhere at every level. I mean, I had friends that were like playing D3 ball game paid. Damn it, D3? Like D3, I'm like, that guy really needed his job. Well, this is why, so I had buddies at D2 schools that, you know, they weren't getting paid big money,

but, you know, their apartment got taken care of. They never paid for food anywhere. And so I'm like, if these cats are getting red carpet treatment at D2, you can't tell me that some big name D1 kid isn't getting paid somehow. Now, how do they get around that? Now, what I would guess,

or what I would think is like these, what do you, like alumni would get together. Well, here I'm an alumni from Duke and so is my three other buddies and we're all Multi-millionaires and so we adopt a kid and we kind of take care of him I would think that would be the loophole to try and get around a lot of this shit I do know how it gets down so I mean it's like the movie blue chips remember that Yeah, yeah, I think that's like I think it's all also self-preservation, so everything they have to do has to be like non-trackable.

Right. So how do they figure that out? And once again, I'm just a meathead in a weight room. Like my understandings of how this shit goes down, and that's a great, the one thing, when all this went down, I slept so easy. While all some of my other dudes in this field were like, oh shit, like we about to all get fired. But I know I'm sleeping easy

because I know my boss and I know the integrity. And of course, we're at Stanford. Like that doesn't go down there. Right. So that's one thing that I'm like, oh, man, thank God. It's going to be interesting to see where you go next year. But like, I know for sure that we're good. But as far as like how they get it, I think, now, once again, I could be wrong. Yeah, we're speculating right now. We're speculating. But you're a fun person to speculate with.

But from one story or a multitude of stories that are all saying the same thing, I should say, back when I was in the South, was football players were going to pay through churches. Oh shit. So they would make a gigantic donation to that kids church. And then shit. Yes. So that's gangster. That is. That's also a whole nother leather level. Yeah. So that's like super spet and I once again, I don't know shit. I'm just the meathead in the weight room. But like these are some of the things I've heard through the great five. Right. Because they have to, they've got to find a,

I mean, it's, I think if the private universities, they're already, you're paying to go there, private university, do the fuck they want, they want to pay a student, let them pay a student, and then watch what happens. Let the market take care of it, and watch the competition.

The problem with that, like Cory says, is then how do you, then how do you even, the playing field? How do you make it same way you do in the pro leagues? I don't think it, but then now it's pro. That's okay. So it's just called their private organizations, let them do what they want,

and then see what happens. But what about the state schools? Like, I don't know how that works. Like Carolina State School, Kentucky State School. That's different, that's controlled by the state. That's a whole day, they control, but I'm talking about the private university, they should be able to do whatever the hell they want.

So it would be really interesting if you just have a private league. Yeah. I mean, that's where you have to go to then. Yeah. Like all of a sudden, I think it's silly that they regulate the hell out of it. Let's see what happens. Let them pay. I mean, it's already like, like, like Adam says, and I agree.

It's probably happening, you know, here and there behind closed doors. Anyway, let them do what they're going to do. They compete for students. They're way they want to compete and then see what happens. Well, a lot of this aim and coming from alumni, it's coming from the shoe companies. Yeah. Like, it's not to get that. Like from alumni, it's coming from the shoe companies. Yeah. Like, it's not gonna get that. Like, a lot of this is coming from that.

That's right. So, and that's what's being investigated. Right, it ain't like the booster, you know, who got rich with a chicken farm. Yeah, just because you got an alumni, like, you know, he's like, Oh yeah, we'll give that kid $50,000. I'm like, no, it's really coming from the shoe company.

So, which, by the way, I love shoes. I love everything that I get a Stanford I'm trying to shoot on it right now. I'm trying to shit on that Don't bring white to that Good shit. Good deal, man. Yeah, thanks for coming home, bro. No, absolutely. Joe Minnows an absolute pleasure Yeah, we'll definitely do this again We wish you a speed recovery and we want to go to a game. I'm just gonna put this again. We wish you a speed recovery and we want to go to a game.

I'm just going to put it. Absolutely. I'm going to put you in a squad. I can tell you what game. Yeah. Okay, I can pick. The best game out of the bill. The best game out of the bill.

So like UCLA. Yes. Yes. Oregon would be a good one. I would love it. I would love it. He's he's special. Yeah.

Seven for three guard. What? Yeah. Like he's special. Now, how do you get decent seats or what? And we have to sit on it. I'm a man. You get these seats. Yeah. No, you he's special now. How do you get decent seats or what are we at the sit-off? I'm a man. Oh, do you get this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, no, you'll get you'll get my seats. Oh Yeah, all right. I like your style. I like it. Yeah, I gotta get into it. I gotta put it right now We're friends now now I can get right to that voice. Okay. Yeah, I

Good shit. Thanks, man. Right on. Great job, Corey. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout nutrients and over 200 videos,

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